<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_01_28_1542225</id>
	<title>US Grants Home Schooling German Family Political Asylum</title>
	<author>samzenpus</author>
	<datestamp>1264699980000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>A US judge has granted political asylum to a family who said they <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/27/german-home-schooling-family-asylum">fled Germany to avoid persecution for home schooling their children</a>. Uwe Romeike and his wife, Hannelore, moved to Tennessee after German authorities fined them for keeping their children out of school and sent police to escort them to classes. Mike Connelly, attorney for the Home School Legal Defence Association, argued the case. He says, "Home schoolers in Germany are a particular social group, which is one of the protected grounds under the asylum law. This judge looked at the evidence, he heard their testimony, and he felt that the way Germany is treating home schoolers is wrong. The rights being violated here are basic human rights."</htmltext>
<tokenext>A US judge has granted political asylum to a family who said they fled Germany to avoid persecution for home schooling their children .
Uwe Romeike and his wife , Hannelore , moved to Tennessee after German authorities fined them for keeping their children out of school and sent police to escort them to classes .
Mike Connelly , attorney for the Home School Legal Defence Association , argued the case .
He says , " Home schoolers in Germany are a particular social group , which is one of the protected grounds under the asylum law .
This judge looked at the evidence , he heard their testimony , and he felt that the way Germany is treating home schoolers is wrong .
The rights being violated here are basic human rights .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A US judge has granted political asylum to a family who said they fled Germany to avoid persecution for home schooling their children.
Uwe Romeike and his wife, Hannelore, moved to Tennessee after German authorities fined them for keeping their children out of school and sent police to escort them to classes.
Mike Connelly, attorney for the Home School Legal Defence Association, argued the case.
He says, "Home schoolers in Germany are a particular social group, which is one of the protected grounds under the asylum law.
This judge looked at the evidence, he heard their testimony, and he felt that the way Germany is treating home schoolers is wrong.
The rights being violated here are basic human rights.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936524</id>
	<title>So I presume we will immediately grant asylum...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264704180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>... to all the people who have education problems in other countries?  I think we should:  all afghani girls who for years could not go to school (did we give asylum to all that requested?), all the africans who cannot go to school because of social problems (did we give asylum to all that requested?), etc.  Clearly shows how racist and politically biased the courts are:  a group of (likely) right wing white people always get precedence over some poor 3rd world, brown-skinned, poor fellow...</htmltext>
<tokenext>... to all the people who have education problems in other countries ?
I think we should : all afghani girls who for years could not go to school ( did we give asylum to all that requested ?
) , all the africans who can not go to school because of social problems ( did we give asylum to all that requested ?
) , etc .
Clearly shows how racist and politically biased the courts are : a group of ( likely ) right wing white people always get precedence over some poor 3rd world , brown-skinned , poor fellow.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... to all the people who have education problems in other countries?
I think we should:  all afghani girls who for years could not go to school (did we give asylum to all that requested?
), all the africans who cannot go to school because of social problems (did we give asylum to all that requested?
), etc.
Clearly shows how racist and politically biased the courts are:  a group of (likely) right wing white people always get precedence over some poor 3rd world, brown-skinned, poor fellow...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938714</id>
	<title>Re:In other words...</title>
	<author>Bob-taro</author>
	<datestamp>1264709520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Considering the quality of education in North America versus the quality of education in Europe, I consider the Judge's decision to be laughable. I'd take a publicly mandated education from a European country over *anything* provided by the US.</p></div><p>You would, they wouldn't.  That's the "freedom" aspect of the whole thing.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Considering the quality of education in North America versus the quality of education in Europe , I consider the Judge 's decision to be laughable .
I 'd take a publicly mandated education from a European country over * anything * provided by the US.You would , they would n't .
That 's the " freedom " aspect of the whole thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Considering the quality of education in North America versus the quality of education in Europe, I consider the Judge's decision to be laughable.
I'd take a publicly mandated education from a European country over *anything* provided by the US.You would, they wouldn't.
That's the "freedom" aspect of the whole thing.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940296</id>
	<title>Re:No story here</title>
	<author>risom</author>
	<datestamp>1264670820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Who the hell are YOU -- or any government -- to deprive the parents of their right to make that choice?  Ridicule it all you want, but it is THEIR choice.</p></div><p>No, it's not "THEIR" choice. Children are no property, they are humans. And that means they have human rights.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Who the hell are YOU -- or any government -- to deprive the parents of their right to make that choice ?
Ridicule it all you want , but it is THEIR choice.No , it 's not " THEIR " choice .
Children are no property , they are humans .
And that means they have human rights .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who the hell are YOU -- or any government -- to deprive the parents of their right to make that choice?
Ridicule it all you want, but it is THEIR choice.No, it's not "THEIR" choice.
Children are no property, they are humans.
And that means they have human rights.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936934</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>pluther</author>
	<datestamp>1264705320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm sure there are cases of home schooled children who end up "more focused and ambitious", but I doubt it's the majority.</p><p>Although it seems to be changing, most home-schoolers are still of the religious fanatic variety, who just want to make sure their children *don't* learn certain things, including science, history, civics, and, most importantly, anything about "safe" sex.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm sure there are cases of home schooled children who end up " more focused and ambitious " , but I doubt it 's the majority.Although it seems to be changing , most home-schoolers are still of the religious fanatic variety , who just want to make sure their children * do n't * learn certain things , including science , history , civics , and , most importantly , anything about " safe " sex .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm sure there are cases of home schooled children who end up "more focused and ambitious", but I doubt it's the majority.Although it seems to be changing, most home-schoolers are still of the religious fanatic variety, who just want to make sure their children *don't* learn certain things, including science, history, civics, and, most importantly, anything about "safe" sex.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942512</id>
	<title>Re:Homeschooling =/= fundamentalist schooling</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264677840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Here's the thing... while not *all* home-schooled children are there for religious reasons, a good deal are. And that includes these ones. Their parents thought that teaching morality lessons from religions other then Christianity meant the school was anti-christian and so decided to home-schooled.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's the thing... while not * all * home-schooled children are there for religious reasons , a good deal are .
And that includes these ones .
Their parents thought that teaching morality lessons from religions other then Christianity meant the school was anti-christian and so decided to home-schooled .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's the thing... while not *all* home-schooled children are there for religious reasons, a good deal are.
And that includes these ones.
Their parents thought that teaching morality lessons from religions other then Christianity meant the school was anti-christian and so decided to home-schooled.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936876</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939546</id>
	<title>Re:So I presume we will immediately grant asylum..</title>
	<author>Paintballparrot</author>
	<datestamp>1264711680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>... to all the people who have education problems in other countries?  I think we should:  all afghani girls who for years could not go to school (did we give asylum to all that requested?), all the africans who cannot go to school because of social problems (did we give asylum to all that requested?), etc.</p></div><p>So you think adding millions to a broken, overtaxed welfare system is a good idea? Who do you think would pay to fly them over? Who do you think would pay to clothe, shelter and feed them? Who do you think would pay to build the hundreds of new schools needed? Who do you think would pay to educate them? Considering Welfare and Social Security programs are already the majority of the US annual budget it sure as hell cant be the US, we don't have the money to expand that program so massively. And more importantly why should we give any money to help the people of other countries? It isn't the job of the US government to fix everyone Else's problems, we can't even fix our own educational system. I would be willing to bet you don't think we should be in Iraq or Afghanistan 'policing the world' so why should we going to Africa and fixing all of the problems there?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Clearly shows how racist and politically biased the courts are:  a group of (likely) right wing white people always get precedence over some poor 3rd world, brown-skinned, poor fellow...</p></div><p>Why don't you look at some recent civil rights cases. I guarantee you will find that almost every time a white man with 10 years experience is promoted over a black man with 5 years experience the courts will find that the black mans civil rights were violated. But Affirmative Action, a system that does nothing but guarantee minorities will get into a job or college over a white person only because they are a minority not only is legal but considered socially responsible. I assure you if a college implemented a system where white students would be given extra points for being white and minorities wouldn't the courts would come down on them like the wrath of god.<br> <br>

Further reading:<br>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whites\_Only\_Scholarship" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whites\_Only\_Scholarship</a> [wikipedia.org] <br>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative\_action\_bake\_sale" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative\_action\_bake\_sale</a> [wikipedia.org] <br>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse\_discrimination" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse\_discrimination</a> [wikipedia.org] <br>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial\_quota" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial\_quota</a> [wikipedia.org] <br> <br>

PS: I can assure you by throwing around the word racism so irresponsibly you are only serving to increase the racial divide in the US. Things like Affirmative Action, Hate Crimes Legislation and Frequent Civil Rights Litigation only serve to create an us vs. them mentality.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>... to all the people who have education problems in other countries ?
I think we should : all afghani girls who for years could not go to school ( did we give asylum to all that requested ?
) , all the africans who can not go to school because of social problems ( did we give asylum to all that requested ?
) , etc.So you think adding millions to a broken , overtaxed welfare system is a good idea ?
Who do you think would pay to fly them over ?
Who do you think would pay to clothe , shelter and feed them ?
Who do you think would pay to build the hundreds of new schools needed ?
Who do you think would pay to educate them ?
Considering Welfare and Social Security programs are already the majority of the US annual budget it sure as hell cant be the US , we do n't have the money to expand that program so massively .
And more importantly why should we give any money to help the people of other countries ?
It is n't the job of the US government to fix everyone Else 's problems , we ca n't even fix our own educational system .
I would be willing to bet you do n't think we should be in Iraq or Afghanistan 'policing the world ' so why should we going to Africa and fixing all of the problems there ? Clearly shows how racist and politically biased the courts are : a group of ( likely ) right wing white people always get precedence over some poor 3rd world , brown-skinned , poor fellow...Why do n't you look at some recent civil rights cases .
I guarantee you will find that almost every time a white man with 10 years experience is promoted over a black man with 5 years experience the courts will find that the black mans civil rights were violated .
But Affirmative Action , a system that does nothing but guarantee minorities will get into a job or college over a white person only because they are a minority not only is legal but considered socially responsible .
I assure you if a college implemented a system where white students would be given extra points for being white and minorities would n't the courts would come down on them like the wrath of god .
Further reading : http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whites \ _Only \ _Scholarship [ wikipedia.org ] http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative \ _action \ _bake \ _sale [ wikipedia.org ] http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse \ _discrimination [ wikipedia.org ] http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial \ _quota [ wikipedia.org ] PS : I can assure you by throwing around the word racism so irresponsibly you are only serving to increase the racial divide in the US .
Things like Affirmative Action , Hate Crimes Legislation and Frequent Civil Rights Litigation only serve to create an us vs. them mentality .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ... to all the people who have education problems in other countries?
I think we should:  all afghani girls who for years could not go to school (did we give asylum to all that requested?
), all the africans who cannot go to school because of social problems (did we give asylum to all that requested?
), etc.So you think adding millions to a broken, overtaxed welfare system is a good idea?
Who do you think would pay to fly them over?
Who do you think would pay to clothe, shelter and feed them?
Who do you think would pay to build the hundreds of new schools needed?
Who do you think would pay to educate them?
Considering Welfare and Social Security programs are already the majority of the US annual budget it sure as hell cant be the US, we don't have the money to expand that program so massively.
And more importantly why should we give any money to help the people of other countries?
It isn't the job of the US government to fix everyone Else's problems, we can't even fix our own educational system.
I would be willing to bet you don't think we should be in Iraq or Afghanistan 'policing the world' so why should we going to Africa and fixing all of the problems there?Clearly shows how racist and politically biased the courts are:  a group of (likely) right wing white people always get precedence over some poor 3rd world, brown-skinned, poor fellow...Why don't you look at some recent civil rights cases.
I guarantee you will find that almost every time a white man with 10 years experience is promoted over a black man with 5 years experience the courts will find that the black mans civil rights were violated.
But Affirmative Action, a system that does nothing but guarantee minorities will get into a job or college over a white person only because they are a minority not only is legal but considered socially responsible.
I assure you if a college implemented a system where white students would be given extra points for being white and minorities wouldn't the courts would come down on them like the wrath of god.
Further reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whites\_Only\_Scholarship [wikipedia.org] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative\_action\_bake\_sale [wikipedia.org] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse\_discrimination [wikipedia.org] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial\_quota [wikipedia.org]  

PS: I can assure you by throwing around the word racism so irresponsibly you are only serving to increase the racial divide in the US.
Things like Affirmative Action, Hate Crimes Legislation and Frequent Civil Rights Litigation only serve to create an us vs. them mentality.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936524</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937518</id>
	<title>And in other news...</title>
	<author>hyades1</author>
	<datestamp>1264706760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> Germany sensibly determined that Scientology is a cult and outlawed it, while the US has raised it to the status of religion and given it tax-exempt status. The Germans also happen to believe that children deserve a basic education that reaches certain objective standards.  Nothing prevents parents from adding to that education. </p><p> Any further comment would be superfluous. </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Germany sensibly determined that Scientology is a cult and outlawed it , while the US has raised it to the status of religion and given it tax-exempt status .
The Germans also happen to believe that children deserve a basic education that reaches certain objective standards .
Nothing prevents parents from adding to that education .
Any further comment would be superfluous .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Germany sensibly determined that Scientology is a cult and outlawed it, while the US has raised it to the status of religion and given it tax-exempt status.
The Germans also happen to believe that children deserve a basic education that reaches certain objective standards.
Nothing prevents parents from adding to that education.
Any further comment would be superfluous. </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580</id>
	<title>Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>TheMiddleRoad</author>
	<datestamp>1264704360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This judge feels for the family, but it's a gross violation of the law.  Homeschooling is in no way a human right.  I'm all for immigration, but this family doesn't even come close to making the cut.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This judge feels for the family , but it 's a gross violation of the law .
Homeschooling is in no way a human right .
I 'm all for immigration , but this family does n't even come close to making the cut .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This judge feels for the family, but it's a gross violation of the law.
Homeschooling is in no way a human right.
I'm all for immigration, but this family doesn't even come close to making the cut.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938872</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>pudge</author>
	<datestamp>1264709820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The only problem I have with homeschooling is that the vast majority of homeschooling is done by ultra fanatic religious fringe groups who claim their kids would get all those "wrong" ideas (like, say, a humanistic education and values) when they were sent to a public school.</p></div><p>The only problem I have with free political speech is that the vast majority of free political speech is done by ultra fanatic political fringe groups<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p><p>Freedom is for everyone, not merely the people you like.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only problem I have with homeschooling is that the vast majority of homeschooling is done by ultra fanatic religious fringe groups who claim their kids would get all those " wrong " ideas ( like , say , a humanistic education and values ) when they were sent to a public school.The only problem I have with free political speech is that the vast majority of free political speech is done by ultra fanatic political fringe groups ...Freedom is for everyone , not merely the people you like .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only problem I have with homeschooling is that the vast majority of homeschooling is done by ultra fanatic religious fringe groups who claim their kids would get all those "wrong" ideas (like, say, a humanistic education and values) when they were sent to a public school.The only problem I have with free political speech is that the vast majority of free political speech is done by ultra fanatic political fringe groups ...Freedom is for everyone, not merely the people you like.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936606</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850</id>
	<title>Re:I do it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264705080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd like to applaud you for presenting a well written, middle-of-the-road argument in favor of homeschooling. It's one of those things where I fear what I hear, because the only people making noise are whack jobs.</p><p>How do you address the social aspects of school? A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people, larger groups, and authority respectfully and responsibly. Its unfortunate, but part of being a productive adult is working with difficult strangers or at least working around them.</p><p>Where was the line for you between, "I'll do this myself" and "Extend/correct/expound/refine what they learned at school"? Of the teachers I know, the best students weren't always the smartest but they were the ones whose parents took an active interest in what they were learning and who added on to that at home. Even the ultra-religious, "Harry Potter is a sin", parents got some respect for actually being aware of what their kids were being exposed to.</p><p>Your thoughts? I know you don't speak for the entire homeschool community, but might as well draw some of your good ideas off while we've got someone who's done it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd like to applaud you for presenting a well written , middle-of-the-road argument in favor of homeschooling .
It 's one of those things where I fear what I hear , because the only people making noise are whack jobs.How do you address the social aspects of school ?
A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people , larger groups , and authority respectfully and responsibly .
Its unfortunate , but part of being a productive adult is working with difficult strangers or at least working around them.Where was the line for you between , " I 'll do this myself " and " Extend/correct/expound/refine what they learned at school " ?
Of the teachers I know , the best students were n't always the smartest but they were the ones whose parents took an active interest in what they were learning and who added on to that at home .
Even the ultra-religious , " Harry Potter is a sin " , parents got some respect for actually being aware of what their kids were being exposed to.Your thoughts ?
I know you do n't speak for the entire homeschool community , but might as well draw some of your good ideas off while we 've got someone who 's done it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd like to applaud you for presenting a well written, middle-of-the-road argument in favor of homeschooling.
It's one of those things where I fear what I hear, because the only people making noise are whack jobs.How do you address the social aspects of school?
A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people, larger groups, and authority respectfully and responsibly.
Its unfortunate, but part of being a productive adult is working with difficult strangers or at least working around them.Where was the line for you between, "I'll do this myself" and "Extend/correct/expound/refine what they learned at school"?
Of the teachers I know, the best students weren't always the smartest but they were the ones whose parents took an active interest in what they were learning and who added on to that at home.
Even the ultra-religious, "Harry Potter is a sin", parents got some respect for actually being aware of what their kids were being exposed to.Your thoughts?
I know you don't speak for the entire homeschool community, but might as well draw some of your good ideas off while we've got someone who's done it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936532</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940556</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264671540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is that you Paul? Paul Feyerabend?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is that you Paul ?
Paul Feyerabend ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is that you Paul?
Paul Feyerabend?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938290</id>
	<title>Re:You can homeschool all you want</title>
	<author>corbettw</author>
	<datestamp>1264708440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Parents have plenty of rights [<i>citation needed</i>], but the right to destroy their kid's future by teaching them anti-science [<i>citation needed</i>] and borderline racist interpretations of history [<i>citation needed</i>] ought not be one. We have whole states here in the US that are filled with nincompoops [<i>citation needed</i>] because of homeschooling [<i>citation needed</i>]. Homeschooling begets more homeschooling [<i>citation needed</i>] in an endless cycle. When you try to push morals and religion into education [<i>citation needed</i>] you end up with none of the above [<i>citation needed</i>].</p></div><p>Wikied that for you.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Parents have plenty of rights [ citation needed ] , but the right to destroy their kid 's future by teaching them anti-science [ citation needed ] and borderline racist interpretations of history [ citation needed ] ought not be one .
We have whole states here in the US that are filled with nincompoops [ citation needed ] because of homeschooling [ citation needed ] .
Homeschooling begets more homeschooling [ citation needed ] in an endless cycle .
When you try to push morals and religion into education [ citation needed ] you end up with none of the above [ citation needed ] .Wikied that for you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Parents have plenty of rights [citation needed], but the right to destroy their kid's future by teaching them anti-science [citation needed] and borderline racist interpretations of history [citation needed] ought not be one.
We have whole states here in the US that are filled with nincompoops [citation needed] because of homeschooling [citation needed].
Homeschooling begets more homeschooling [citation needed] in an endless cycle.
When you try to push morals and religion into education [citation needed] you end up with none of the above [citation needed].Wikied that for you.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30950188</id>
	<title>Re:Religious Nutjobs</title>
	<author>sac13</author>
	<datestamp>1264783980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I do, however, have a major issue with people pulling their children out of public school so they can be home-schooled according to religious criteria.  I recognize this is a slippery slope, but based on what I've read so far I support the German government.</p></div><p>Slippery slope?  Very much so...</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Religious freedom allows you to <strong>worship</strong>, but it does not in my mind give one free license to <strong>program</strong> children with it.</p></div><p>Is there a difference?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Children are not property.</p></div><p>What are they then?  Not that I disagree, but either they are minors subject to parental leadership or adults.  Another choice could be minors subject to governmental leadership, I suppose.  Regardless, someone has to decide how they are to be raised.  It's either them, parents or government.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Religious conflict with a secular school is not a valid reason for home-schooling.</p></div><p>What is a "valid" reason?  And who determines what makes it "valid?"</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Further, home schooled children should be subject to, at the very least, the same aptitude tests and subject material criteria as public school children.  (Yes, I know most public school criteria and tests are a joke, but it's at least a starting point.)</p></div><p>Where I live, they are.  And, they score SIGNIFICANTLY higher than the average of students government educated.  So... now that we have the data you requested, what are we supposed to do with it?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do , however , have a major issue with people pulling their children out of public school so they can be home-schooled according to religious criteria .
I recognize this is a slippery slope , but based on what I 've read so far I support the German government.Slippery slope ?
Very much so...Religious freedom allows you to worship , but it does not in my mind give one free license to program children with it.Is there a difference ? Children are not property.What are they then ?
Not that I disagree , but either they are minors subject to parental leadership or adults .
Another choice could be minors subject to governmental leadership , I suppose .
Regardless , someone has to decide how they are to be raised .
It 's either them , parents or government.Religious conflict with a secular school is not a valid reason for home-schooling.What is a " valid " reason ?
And who determines what makes it " valid ?
" Further , home schooled children should be subject to , at the very least , the same aptitude tests and subject material criteria as public school children .
( Yes , I know most public school criteria and tests are a joke , but it 's at least a starting point .
) Where I live , they are .
And , they score SIGNIFICANTLY higher than the average of students government educated .
So... now that we have the data you requested , what are we supposed to do with it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I do, however, have a major issue with people pulling their children out of public school so they can be home-schooled according to religious criteria.
I recognize this is a slippery slope, but based on what I've read so far I support the German government.Slippery slope?
Very much so...Religious freedom allows you to worship, but it does not in my mind give one free license to program children with it.Is there a difference?Children are not property.What are they then?
Not that I disagree, but either they are minors subject to parental leadership or adults.
Another choice could be minors subject to governmental leadership, I suppose.
Regardless, someone has to decide how they are to be raised.
It's either them, parents or government.Religious conflict with a secular school is not a valid reason for home-schooling.What is a "valid" reason?
And who determines what makes it "valid?
"Further, home schooled children should be subject to, at the very least, the same aptitude tests and subject material criteria as public school children.
(Yes, I know most public school criteria and tests are a joke, but it's at least a starting point.
)Where I live, they are.
And, they score SIGNIFICANTLY higher than the average of students government educated.
So... now that we have the data you requested, what are we supposed to do with it?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936736</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938486</id>
	<title>Re:Religious Nutjobs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264708980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Religious criteria can actually be enriching when included with traditional education - read a few biblical verses about Babylon or the Hittites when studying Mesopotamia and get a little perspective on how long religious conflict has existed in the region.  Following a path of disciples descended from the apostles might be an interesting activity to parallel to learning about genealogy.  One of the common issues for Christians in America is integrating their religion into their daily lives - "living their faith".  Part of that may stem from the two being forcibly separated when in school.  Integrating it may help alleviate this problem for the children later in life.</p><p>Children are not property, but they are not adults either, parents are legally granted the decision making power for their children until they are adults or until the parents prove to be unfit.</p><p>I would strongly disagree with mandatory testing - part of the point for many homeschoolers is to teach and emphasize different things.  If I decide that elementary number theory should be covered before geometry then the fact that my child can't do geometry that year isn't particularly meaningful.  Similarly, if I am big on the classics, a test that checks vocabulary for more recently introduced/popularized words would also not be meaningful.  The same applies if I believed that teaching history is best done local to global and so I am teaching what would be sixth grade world geography in eighth grade and state history in sixth.  Perhaps I would rather emphasize Chinese history over European in world history, is that fundamentally wrong?  In each case the test results would tell us nothing without enforcing the state curricula on the parent and defeating the point of taking the time to homeschool my child as I saw fit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Religious criteria can actually be enriching when included with traditional education - read a few biblical verses about Babylon or the Hittites when studying Mesopotamia and get a little perspective on how long religious conflict has existed in the region .
Following a path of disciples descended from the apostles might be an interesting activity to parallel to learning about genealogy .
One of the common issues for Christians in America is integrating their religion into their daily lives - " living their faith " .
Part of that may stem from the two being forcibly separated when in school .
Integrating it may help alleviate this problem for the children later in life.Children are not property , but they are not adults either , parents are legally granted the decision making power for their children until they are adults or until the parents prove to be unfit.I would strongly disagree with mandatory testing - part of the point for many homeschoolers is to teach and emphasize different things .
If I decide that elementary number theory should be covered before geometry then the fact that my child ca n't do geometry that year is n't particularly meaningful .
Similarly , if I am big on the classics , a test that checks vocabulary for more recently introduced/popularized words would also not be meaningful .
The same applies if I believed that teaching history is best done local to global and so I am teaching what would be sixth grade world geography in eighth grade and state history in sixth .
Perhaps I would rather emphasize Chinese history over European in world history , is that fundamentally wrong ?
In each case the test results would tell us nothing without enforcing the state curricula on the parent and defeating the point of taking the time to homeschool my child as I saw fit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Religious criteria can actually be enriching when included with traditional education - read a few biblical verses about Babylon or the Hittites when studying Mesopotamia and get a little perspective on how long religious conflict has existed in the region.
Following a path of disciples descended from the apostles might be an interesting activity to parallel to learning about genealogy.
One of the common issues for Christians in America is integrating their religion into their daily lives - "living their faith".
Part of that may stem from the two being forcibly separated when in school.
Integrating it may help alleviate this problem for the children later in life.Children are not property, but they are not adults either, parents are legally granted the decision making power for their children until they are adults or until the parents prove to be unfit.I would strongly disagree with mandatory testing - part of the point for many homeschoolers is to teach and emphasize different things.
If I decide that elementary number theory should be covered before geometry then the fact that my child can't do geometry that year isn't particularly meaningful.
Similarly, if I am big on the classics, a test that checks vocabulary for more recently introduced/popularized words would also not be meaningful.
The same applies if I believed that teaching history is best done local to global and so I am teaching what would be sixth grade world geography in eighth grade and state history in sixth.
Perhaps I would rather emphasize Chinese history over European in world history, is that fundamentally wrong?
In each case the test results would tell us nothing without enforcing the state curricula on the parent and defeating the point of taking the time to homeschool my child as I saw fit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936736</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940382</id>
	<title>Socialization?  In school?  ARE YOU KIDDING???</title>
	<author>jonaskoelker</author>
	<datestamp>1264671060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people, larger groups, and authority respectfully and responsibly.</p></div><p>I don't think any of my classmates ever convinced me they could interact respectfully with me---quite on the contrary.  Instead, they taught me that if I make people dislike me they will make my life hell for eight years, and that I have no control over whether people like me or not.</p><p>And authorities?  No authority figure ever earned my respect.  Maybe if they had done something about the bullies, instead of blaming me for overreacting and telling me to {count to ten, take a deep breath, ignore the bullies, just walk away from them}.</p><p>So I didn't learn to interact respectfully and responsibly with new people, or large groups, or authorities, because none of them ever earned my respect.  Instead I learned to seek out solitude and knowledge at the nearby public library (they had books and internets).</p><p>That worked fine, of course, until I started feeling a need to have sex with girls (and feel loved, and such).  I had no clue about what to say and what to do, and I was afraid to try things out, because I had learned the consequences of people not liking me.  So I went lonely and unloved for so unbearably long.</p><p>The world.  So lonesome.  So depressing.  I want out.</p><p>This could happen to your children.  Don't put them in those mad places.  Put them somewhere where they can become whole human beings who have confidence in themselves, who can trust other people, and who have learned that they are loved and there will always be a helping hand.  Don't let them become what I have become.  Please.  Spare them the pain.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people , larger groups , and authority respectfully and responsibly.I do n't think any of my classmates ever convinced me they could interact respectfully with me---quite on the contrary .
Instead , they taught me that if I make people dislike me they will make my life hell for eight years , and that I have no control over whether people like me or not.And authorities ?
No authority figure ever earned my respect .
Maybe if they had done something about the bullies , instead of blaming me for overreacting and telling me to { count to ten , take a deep breath , ignore the bullies , just walk away from them } .So I did n't learn to interact respectfully and responsibly with new people , or large groups , or authorities , because none of them ever earned my respect .
Instead I learned to seek out solitude and knowledge at the nearby public library ( they had books and internets ) .That worked fine , of course , until I started feeling a need to have sex with girls ( and feel loved , and such ) .
I had no clue about what to say and what to do , and I was afraid to try things out , because I had learned the consequences of people not liking me .
So I went lonely and unloved for so unbearably long.The world .
So lonesome .
So depressing .
I want out.This could happen to your children .
Do n't put them in those mad places .
Put them somewhere where they can become whole human beings who have confidence in themselves , who can trust other people , and who have learned that they are loved and there will always be a helping hand .
Do n't let them become what I have become .
Please. Spare them the pain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people, larger groups, and authority respectfully and responsibly.I don't think any of my classmates ever convinced me they could interact respectfully with me---quite on the contrary.
Instead, they taught me that if I make people dislike me they will make my life hell for eight years, and that I have no control over whether people like me or not.And authorities?
No authority figure ever earned my respect.
Maybe if they had done something about the bullies, instead of blaming me for overreacting and telling me to {count to ten, take a deep breath, ignore the bullies, just walk away from them}.So I didn't learn to interact respectfully and responsibly with new people, or large groups, or authorities, because none of them ever earned my respect.
Instead I learned to seek out solitude and knowledge at the nearby public library (they had books and internets).That worked fine, of course, until I started feeling a need to have sex with girls (and feel loved, and such).
I had no clue about what to say and what to do, and I was afraid to try things out, because I had learned the consequences of people not liking me.
So I went lonely and unloved for so unbearably long.The world.
So lonesome.
So depressing.
I want out.This could happen to your children.
Don't put them in those mad places.
Put them somewhere where they can become whole human beings who have confidence in themselves, who can trust other people, and who have learned that they are loved and there will always be a helping hand.
Don't let them become what I have become.
Please.  Spare them the pain.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936638</id>
	<title>Re:Hey Germany</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264704480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Germany did. And they thought that a child has the right to equal chances with every other child in Germany. And that means that it also has the right to an education equivalent to the education all the other children get, and this right is not to be withhold, not even by the child's parents. They are allowed to homeschool their children <em>if they take the exams required by law to be allowed to teach children</em>. The parents didn't, and so the law said, they weren't providing their children equal chances, and thus got fined.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Germany did .
And they thought that a child has the right to equal chances with every other child in Germany .
And that means that it also has the right to an education equivalent to the education all the other children get , and this right is not to be withhold , not even by the child 's parents .
They are allowed to homeschool their children if they take the exams required by law to be allowed to teach children .
The parents did n't , and so the law said , they were n't providing their children equal chances , and thus got fined .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Germany did.
And they thought that a child has the right to equal chances with every other child in Germany.
And that means that it also has the right to an education equivalent to the education all the other children get, and this right is not to be withhold, not even by the child's parents.
They are allowed to homeschool their children if they take the exams required by law to be allowed to teach children.
The parents didn't, and so the law said, they weren't providing their children equal chances, and thus got fined.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936504</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938402</id>
	<title>Public "education" isn't</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264708740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you think that there is anything inherently good about public schools you first need to read this essay, then read <a href="http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/index.htm" title="johntaylorgatto.com">a book</a> [johntaylorgatto.com] written by a public school teacher of 20 years.</p><p>The Six-Lesson Schoolteacher</p><p>by John Taylor Gatto, New York State Teacher of the Year, 1991</p><p>Call me Mr. Gatto, please. Twenty-six years ago, having nothing better to do, I tried my hand at schoolteaching. My license certifies me as an instructor of English language and literature, but that isn't what I do at all. What I teach is school, and I win awards doing it.</p><p>Teaching means many different things, but six lessons are common to schoolteaching from Harlem to Hollywood. You pay for these lessons in more ways than you can imagine, so you might as well know what they are:</p><p>The first lesson I teach is: "Stay in the class where you belong." I don't know who decides that my kids belong there but that's not my business. The children are numbered so that if any get away they can be returned to the right class. Over the years the variety of ways children are numbered has increased dramatically, until it is hard to see the human being under the burden of the numbers each carries. Numbering children is a big and very profitable business, though what the business is designed to accomplish is elusive.</p><p>In any case, again, that's not my business. My job is to make the kids like it -- being locked in together, I mean -- or at the minimum, endure it. If things go well, the kids can't imagine themselves anywhere else; they envy and fear the better classes and have contempt for the dumber classes. So the class mostly keeps itself in good marching order. That's the real lesson of any rigged competition like school. You come to know your place.</p><p>Nevertheless, in spite of the overall blueprint, I make an effort to urge children to higher levels of test success, promising eventual transfer from the lower-level class as a reward. I insinuate that the day will come when an employer will hire them on the basis of test scores, even though my own experience is that employers are (rightly) indifferent to such things. I never lie outright, but I've come to see that truth and [school]teaching are incompatible.</p><p>The lesson of numbered classes is that there is no way out of your class except by magic. Until that happens you must stay where you are put.</p><p>The second lesson I teach kids is to turn on and off like a light switch. I demand that they become totally involved in my lessons, jumping up and down in their seats with anticipation, competing vigorously with each other for my favor. But when the bell rings I insist that they drop the work at once and proceed quickly to the next work station. Nothing important is ever finished in my class, nor in any other class I know of.</p><p>The lesson of bells is that no work is worth finishing, so why care too deeply about anything? Bells are the secret logic of schooltime; their argument is inexorable; bells destroy past and future, converting every interval into a sameness, as an abstract map makes every living mountain and river the same even though they are not. Bells inoculate each undertaking with indifference.</p><p>The third lesson I teach you is to surrender your will to a predestined chain of command. Rights may be granted or withheld, by authority, without appeal. As a schoolteacher I intervene in many personal decisions, issuing a Pass for those I deem legitimate, or initiating a disciplinary confrontation for behavior that threatens my control. My judgments come thick and fast, because individuality is trying constantly to assert itself in my classroom. Individuality is a curse to all systems of classification, a contradiction of class theory.</p><p>Here are some common ways it shows up: children sneak away for a private moment in the toilet on the pretext of moving their bowels; they trick me out of a private instant in the hallway on the grounds that they need water. Sometimes free will appears right in front of</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you think that there is anything inherently good about public schools you first need to read this essay , then read a book [ johntaylorgatto.com ] written by a public school teacher of 20 years.The Six-Lesson Schoolteacherby John Taylor Gatto , New York State Teacher of the Year , 1991Call me Mr. Gatto , please .
Twenty-six years ago , having nothing better to do , I tried my hand at schoolteaching .
My license certifies me as an instructor of English language and literature , but that is n't what I do at all .
What I teach is school , and I win awards doing it.Teaching means many different things , but six lessons are common to schoolteaching from Harlem to Hollywood .
You pay for these lessons in more ways than you can imagine , so you might as well know what they are : The first lesson I teach is : " Stay in the class where you belong .
" I do n't know who decides that my kids belong there but that 's not my business .
The children are numbered so that if any get away they can be returned to the right class .
Over the years the variety of ways children are numbered has increased dramatically , until it is hard to see the human being under the burden of the numbers each carries .
Numbering children is a big and very profitable business , though what the business is designed to accomplish is elusive.In any case , again , that 's not my business .
My job is to make the kids like it -- being locked in together , I mean -- or at the minimum , endure it .
If things go well , the kids ca n't imagine themselves anywhere else ; they envy and fear the better classes and have contempt for the dumber classes .
So the class mostly keeps itself in good marching order .
That 's the real lesson of any rigged competition like school .
You come to know your place.Nevertheless , in spite of the overall blueprint , I make an effort to urge children to higher levels of test success , promising eventual transfer from the lower-level class as a reward .
I insinuate that the day will come when an employer will hire them on the basis of test scores , even though my own experience is that employers are ( rightly ) indifferent to such things .
I never lie outright , but I 've come to see that truth and [ school ] teaching are incompatible.The lesson of numbered classes is that there is no way out of your class except by magic .
Until that happens you must stay where you are put.The second lesson I teach kids is to turn on and off like a light switch .
I demand that they become totally involved in my lessons , jumping up and down in their seats with anticipation , competing vigorously with each other for my favor .
But when the bell rings I insist that they drop the work at once and proceed quickly to the next work station .
Nothing important is ever finished in my class , nor in any other class I know of.The lesson of bells is that no work is worth finishing , so why care too deeply about anything ?
Bells are the secret logic of schooltime ; their argument is inexorable ; bells destroy past and future , converting every interval into a sameness , as an abstract map makes every living mountain and river the same even though they are not .
Bells inoculate each undertaking with indifference.The third lesson I teach you is to surrender your will to a predestined chain of command .
Rights may be granted or withheld , by authority , without appeal .
As a schoolteacher I intervene in many personal decisions , issuing a Pass for those I deem legitimate , or initiating a disciplinary confrontation for behavior that threatens my control .
My judgments come thick and fast , because individuality is trying constantly to assert itself in my classroom .
Individuality is a curse to all systems of classification , a contradiction of class theory.Here are some common ways it shows up : children sneak away for a private moment in the toilet on the pretext of moving their bowels ; they trick me out of a private instant in the hallway on the grounds that they need water .
Sometimes free will appears right in front of</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you think that there is anything inherently good about public schools you first need to read this essay, then read a book [johntaylorgatto.com] written by a public school teacher of 20 years.The Six-Lesson Schoolteacherby John Taylor Gatto, New York State Teacher of the Year, 1991Call me Mr. Gatto, please.
Twenty-six years ago, having nothing better to do, I tried my hand at schoolteaching.
My license certifies me as an instructor of English language and literature, but that isn't what I do at all.
What I teach is school, and I win awards doing it.Teaching means many different things, but six lessons are common to schoolteaching from Harlem to Hollywood.
You pay for these lessons in more ways than you can imagine, so you might as well know what they are:The first lesson I teach is: "Stay in the class where you belong.
" I don't know who decides that my kids belong there but that's not my business.
The children are numbered so that if any get away they can be returned to the right class.
Over the years the variety of ways children are numbered has increased dramatically, until it is hard to see the human being under the burden of the numbers each carries.
Numbering children is a big and very profitable business, though what the business is designed to accomplish is elusive.In any case, again, that's not my business.
My job is to make the kids like it -- being locked in together, I mean -- or at the minimum, endure it.
If things go well, the kids can't imagine themselves anywhere else; they envy and fear the better classes and have contempt for the dumber classes.
So the class mostly keeps itself in good marching order.
That's the real lesson of any rigged competition like school.
You come to know your place.Nevertheless, in spite of the overall blueprint, I make an effort to urge children to higher levels of test success, promising eventual transfer from the lower-level class as a reward.
I insinuate that the day will come when an employer will hire them on the basis of test scores, even though my own experience is that employers are (rightly) indifferent to such things.
I never lie outright, but I've come to see that truth and [school]teaching are incompatible.The lesson of numbered classes is that there is no way out of your class except by magic.
Until that happens you must stay where you are put.The second lesson I teach kids is to turn on and off like a light switch.
I demand that they become totally involved in my lessons, jumping up and down in their seats with anticipation, competing vigorously with each other for my favor.
But when the bell rings I insist that they drop the work at once and proceed quickly to the next work station.
Nothing important is ever finished in my class, nor in any other class I know of.The lesson of bells is that no work is worth finishing, so why care too deeply about anything?
Bells are the secret logic of schooltime; their argument is inexorable; bells destroy past and future, converting every interval into a sameness, as an abstract map makes every living mountain and river the same even though they are not.
Bells inoculate each undertaking with indifference.The third lesson I teach you is to surrender your will to a predestined chain of command.
Rights may be granted or withheld, by authority, without appeal.
As a schoolteacher I intervene in many personal decisions, issuing a Pass for those I deem legitimate, or initiating a disciplinary confrontation for behavior that threatens my control.
My judgments come thick and fast, because individuality is trying constantly to assert itself in my classroom.
Individuality is a curse to all systems of classification, a contradiction of class theory.Here are some common ways it shows up: children sneak away for a private moment in the toilet on the pretext of moving their bowels; they trick me out of a private instant in the hallway on the grounds that they need water.
Sometimes free will appears right in front of</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937604</id>
	<title>Contradiction</title>
	<author>jcdenhartog</author>
	<datestamp>1264706940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
For those that oppose home-schooling, do they seriously think that the government does a great job of educating children?  I can't believe there are so many that oppose home-schooling, yet Slashdotters in general rail on the poor quality of the American education system.
</p><p>
To me, home-schooling is a great alternative.  Parents in general care the most about their children, not the government.  Obviously there are the exception (child abusers, etc.), but that's not necessarily an argument to ban all home-schooling outright.
</p><p>
Seems like as long as the children can pass the standardized tests (SAT, etc.), we should support it.  In fact, studies have been done that show that home-schoolers often do better than public school students.  For example:<br>
<a href="http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp" title="hslda.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp</a> [hslda.org]
</p><p>
Anecdotally, my sister found that some colleges actually prefer home-schoolers for this reason.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For those that oppose home-schooling , do they seriously think that the government does a great job of educating children ?
I ca n't believe there are so many that oppose home-schooling , yet Slashdotters in general rail on the poor quality of the American education system .
To me , home-schooling is a great alternative .
Parents in general care the most about their children , not the government .
Obviously there are the exception ( child abusers , etc .
) , but that 's not necessarily an argument to ban all home-schooling outright .
Seems like as long as the children can pass the standardized tests ( SAT , etc .
) , we should support it .
In fact , studies have been done that show that home-schoolers often do better than public school students .
For example : http : //www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp [ hslda.org ] Anecdotally , my sister found that some colleges actually prefer home-schoolers for this reason .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
For those that oppose home-schooling, do they seriously think that the government does a great job of educating children?
I can't believe there are so many that oppose home-schooling, yet Slashdotters in general rail on the poor quality of the American education system.
To me, home-schooling is a great alternative.
Parents in general care the most about their children, not the government.
Obviously there are the exception (child abusers, etc.
), but that's not necessarily an argument to ban all home-schooling outright.
Seems like as long as the children can pass the standardized tests (SAT, etc.
), we should support it.
In fact, studies have been done that show that home-schoolers often do better than public school students.
For example:
http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp [hslda.org]

Anecdotally, my sister found that some colleges actually prefer home-schoolers for this reason.
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937000</id>
	<title>Re:Hey Germany</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264705560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't know how it is in Germany, but in large areas of the US, a child having the right to equal education is a pretty low standard. In my experience, there are two major groups of home schoolers: the people that don't agree with standard school doctrines, methods, and no child left alone policies, and the relative few religious nuts that create a bad name for themselves and the first group. Most schools in the southeast tend more towards holding more children back than helping them achieve a decent education, and where the public school system fails, private schools and home schooling can succeed.</p><p>If being a certified teacher requires you to teach a certain curriculum, then there would be almost no benefit to staying outside of the government sanctioned school system.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know how it is in Germany , but in large areas of the US , a child having the right to equal education is a pretty low standard .
In my experience , there are two major groups of home schoolers : the people that do n't agree with standard school doctrines , methods , and no child left alone policies , and the relative few religious nuts that create a bad name for themselves and the first group .
Most schools in the southeast tend more towards holding more children back than helping them achieve a decent education , and where the public school system fails , private schools and home schooling can succeed.If being a certified teacher requires you to teach a certain curriculum , then there would be almost no benefit to staying outside of the government sanctioned school system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know how it is in Germany, but in large areas of the US, a child having the right to equal education is a pretty low standard.
In my experience, there are two major groups of home schoolers: the people that don't agree with standard school doctrines, methods, and no child left alone policies, and the relative few religious nuts that create a bad name for themselves and the first group.
Most schools in the southeast tend more towards holding more children back than helping them achieve a decent education, and where the public school system fails, private schools and home schooling can succeed.If being a certified teacher requires you to teach a certain curriculum, then there would be almost no benefit to staying outside of the government sanctioned school system.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941518</id>
	<title>Re:No story here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264674300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Who the hell are YOU -- or any government -- to deprive the parents of their right to make that choice?  Ridicule it all you want, but it is THEIR choice.</p></div><p>Protecting people from harm is the main job of the government. All the "big government bad, small government good" stuff you have flying in US is mostly about your colonial past and pretty horrific experience with colonial government, who's main goal was population control, subjugation and extracting taxes.</p><p>Here in Europe we largely lack such experiences. Most governments tend to go to war against certain ethnicities - but with few exceptions never against their main ethnicity. Governments tend to be much more stable and citizen-oriented because of this. This is especially true for Germany, where people by the nature of their culture are VERY pedantic.</p><p>Result is, we can afford to cede more right to the government because we can trust the government not to abuse those right much more then you can. It's a cultural thing. And I can bet a rather large stack of money that most Europeans in general, be they French, German, Spanish, Finnish, Swedish and so on would agree that government DOES have a right to say that TOLERANCE towards other should be taught. Because in the long term, tolerance towards others is the main thing that makes our society work.</p><p>By reading the case material, you'll notice that these people are literally some of the most intolerant religious nutcases there can be. To them, government school TEACHING ABOUT OTHER RELIGIONS is unacceptable because it's not christian enough - they're THAT intolerant of others. The judge who granted asylum is either very, very politically/religiously motivated, or had to follow a truly horrifying set of laws.</p><p>I'd be looking for a fault within US justice system rather then German governance and schooling laws on this. If these people REALLY wanted to home school, all they needed was getting a basic teaching license, which would have them go courses about how to teach. Which incidentally is not an easy job. Instead they opted to flee and "seek asylum", which says volumes about them and their desire to attract attention to their "cause".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Who the hell are YOU -- or any government -- to deprive the parents of their right to make that choice ?
Ridicule it all you want , but it is THEIR choice.Protecting people from harm is the main job of the government .
All the " big government bad , small government good " stuff you have flying in US is mostly about your colonial past and pretty horrific experience with colonial government , who 's main goal was population control , subjugation and extracting taxes.Here in Europe we largely lack such experiences .
Most governments tend to go to war against certain ethnicities - but with few exceptions never against their main ethnicity .
Governments tend to be much more stable and citizen-oriented because of this .
This is especially true for Germany , where people by the nature of their culture are VERY pedantic.Result is , we can afford to cede more right to the government because we can trust the government not to abuse those right much more then you can .
It 's a cultural thing .
And I can bet a rather large stack of money that most Europeans in general , be they French , German , Spanish , Finnish , Swedish and so on would agree that government DOES have a right to say that TOLERANCE towards other should be taught .
Because in the long term , tolerance towards others is the main thing that makes our society work.By reading the case material , you 'll notice that these people are literally some of the most intolerant religious nutcases there can be .
To them , government school TEACHING ABOUT OTHER RELIGIONS is unacceptable because it 's not christian enough - they 're THAT intolerant of others .
The judge who granted asylum is either very , very politically/religiously motivated , or had to follow a truly horrifying set of laws.I 'd be looking for a fault within US justice system rather then German governance and schooling laws on this .
If these people REALLY wanted to home school , all they needed was getting a basic teaching license , which would have them go courses about how to teach .
Which incidentally is not an easy job .
Instead they opted to flee and " seek asylum " , which says volumes about them and their desire to attract attention to their " cause " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who the hell are YOU -- or any government -- to deprive the parents of their right to make that choice?
Ridicule it all you want, but it is THEIR choice.Protecting people from harm is the main job of the government.
All the "big government bad, small government good" stuff you have flying in US is mostly about your colonial past and pretty horrific experience with colonial government, who's main goal was population control, subjugation and extracting taxes.Here in Europe we largely lack such experiences.
Most governments tend to go to war against certain ethnicities - but with few exceptions never against their main ethnicity.
Governments tend to be much more stable and citizen-oriented because of this.
This is especially true for Germany, where people by the nature of their culture are VERY pedantic.Result is, we can afford to cede more right to the government because we can trust the government not to abuse those right much more then you can.
It's a cultural thing.
And I can bet a rather large stack of money that most Europeans in general, be they French, German, Spanish, Finnish, Swedish and so on would agree that government DOES have a right to say that TOLERANCE towards other should be taught.
Because in the long term, tolerance towards others is the main thing that makes our society work.By reading the case material, you'll notice that these people are literally some of the most intolerant religious nutcases there can be.
To them, government school TEACHING ABOUT OTHER RELIGIONS is unacceptable because it's not christian enough - they're THAT intolerant of others.
The judge who granted asylum is either very, very politically/religiously motivated, or had to follow a truly horrifying set of laws.I'd be looking for a fault within US justice system rather then German governance and schooling laws on this.
If these people REALLY wanted to home school, all they needed was getting a basic teaching license, which would have them go courses about how to teach.
Which incidentally is not an easy job.
Instead they opted to flee and "seek asylum", which says volumes about them and their desire to attract attention to their "cause".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30943142</id>
	<title>Re:I do it</title>
	<author>CodeBuster</author>
	<datestamp>1264680300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people, larger groups, and authority respectfully and responsibly.</p></div><p>Have you looked at public schools recently? A substantial number of the students are disrespectful and openly defiant of authority, form themselves into violent gangs and generally lack any sense of responsibility. In some states this may be less of an issue but here in California, where many public schools are overrun by these problem kids, those who can afford it generally put their kids in private school or else they homeschool them because public school is perceived in many cases to be an inferior option.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people , larger groups , and authority respectfully and responsibly.Have you looked at public schools recently ?
A substantial number of the students are disrespectful and openly defiant of authority , form themselves into violent gangs and generally lack any sense of responsibility .
In some states this may be less of an issue but here in California , where many public schools are overrun by these problem kids , those who can afford it generally put their kids in private school or else they homeschool them because public school is perceived in many cases to be an inferior option .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people, larger groups, and authority respectfully and responsibly.Have you looked at public schools recently?
A substantial number of the students are disrespectful and openly defiant of authority, form themselves into violent gangs and generally lack any sense of responsibility.
In some states this may be less of an issue but here in California, where many public schools are overrun by these problem kids, those who can afford it generally put their kids in private school or else they homeschool them because public school is perceived in many cases to be an inferior option.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944760</id>
	<title>Re:Contradiction</title>
	<author>buddyglass</author>
	<datestamp>1264690740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The SAT is theoretically an aptitude test, for what its worth.  It tests vocabulary, basic math and grasp of the English language.  You can "pass" the SAT and still be woefully ignorant in the areas of science, history, music, foreign languages, etc.</p><p>As for the report, my feeling is that the home schoolers' advantage is most likely due to demographics.  By definition home schooling parents are "highly interested" and involved in their childrens' education.  If you only examined those public school parents who are similarly "dedicated" to their childrens' education, I suspect the home schooling advantage would disappear.  Home schooling families are probably also different in other ways.  More two-parent homes, etc.</p><p>That said, I don't think home schooling is a bad thing.  I just don't think its a silver bullet.  The quality of one's home school environment depends on the parent doing the instruction.  Some parents are great teachers.  Others not so much.  Just like public school teachers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The SAT is theoretically an aptitude test , for what its worth .
It tests vocabulary , basic math and grasp of the English language .
You can " pass " the SAT and still be woefully ignorant in the areas of science , history , music , foreign languages , etc.As for the report , my feeling is that the home schoolers ' advantage is most likely due to demographics .
By definition home schooling parents are " highly interested " and involved in their childrens ' education .
If you only examined those public school parents who are similarly " dedicated " to their childrens ' education , I suspect the home schooling advantage would disappear .
Home schooling families are probably also different in other ways .
More two-parent homes , etc.That said , I do n't think home schooling is a bad thing .
I just do n't think its a silver bullet .
The quality of one 's home school environment depends on the parent doing the instruction .
Some parents are great teachers .
Others not so much .
Just like public school teachers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The SAT is theoretically an aptitude test, for what its worth.
It tests vocabulary, basic math and grasp of the English language.
You can "pass" the SAT and still be woefully ignorant in the areas of science, history, music, foreign languages, etc.As for the report, my feeling is that the home schoolers' advantage is most likely due to demographics.
By definition home schooling parents are "highly interested" and involved in their childrens' education.
If you only examined those public school parents who are similarly "dedicated" to their childrens' education, I suspect the home schooling advantage would disappear.
Home schooling families are probably also different in other ways.
More two-parent homes, etc.That said, I don't think home schooling is a bad thing.
I just don't think its a silver bullet.
The quality of one's home school environment depends on the parent doing the instruction.
Some parents are great teachers.
Others not so much.
Just like public school teachers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937604</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938810</id>
	<title>Re:Hey Germany</title>
	<author>precariousgray</author>
	<datestamp>1264709700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wasn't aware rights were things which could be forced upon a person against their will.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was n't aware rights were things which could be forced upon a person against their will .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wasn't aware rights were things which could be forced upon a person against their will.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30947000</id>
	<title>Re:Religion, not schooling</title>
	<author>shaitand</author>
	<datestamp>1264757340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"ust because something is protected by the free exercise clause of the 1st amendment to the US Constitution does not mean it is necessarily a fundamental human right which should give rise to an asylum claim. Germany is not subject the the US Constitution."</p><p>This is false. The bill of rights, including the first amendment is a non-exhaustive list of examples of things considered to be god given (inborn) natural human rights that may not be infringed by government. Germany may not agree but if they violated those rights the law of the United States binds that judge to recognize this as oppression.</p><p>I think religion is a crock for the most part. But I have the right to believe anything I wish no matter how sane or insane YOU feel it is and I have the right to raise and teach my children based on my beliefs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" ust because something is protected by the free exercise clause of the 1st amendment to the US Constitution does not mean it is necessarily a fundamental human right which should give rise to an asylum claim .
Germany is not subject the the US Constitution .
" This is false .
The bill of rights , including the first amendment is a non-exhaustive list of examples of things considered to be god given ( inborn ) natural human rights that may not be infringed by government .
Germany may not agree but if they violated those rights the law of the United States binds that judge to recognize this as oppression.I think religion is a crock for the most part .
But I have the right to believe anything I wish no matter how sane or insane YOU feel it is and I have the right to raise and teach my children based on my beliefs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"ust because something is protected by the free exercise clause of the 1st amendment to the US Constitution does not mean it is necessarily a fundamental human right which should give rise to an asylum claim.
Germany is not subject the the US Constitution.
"This is false.
The bill of rights, including the first amendment is a non-exhaustive list of examples of things considered to be god given (inborn) natural human rights that may not be infringed by government.
Germany may not agree but if they violated those rights the law of the United States binds that judge to recognize this as oppression.I think religion is a crock for the most part.
But I have the right to believe anything I wish no matter how sane or insane YOU feel it is and I have the right to raise and teach my children based on my beliefs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936712</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937628</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264707000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So from which viewpoint can you conclude that it is a basic right to have absolute control over your children?</p><p>Should we treat children as objects owned by their parents or individual human beings? Individual human beings should have the basic right to develop themselves, pursuit of happiness. So what if I choose to teach my kids just enough that they can work on my farm and never question my authority? Should you be able to force your daughter at the age of 13 to marry a guy over 50 like in some countries?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So from which viewpoint can you conclude that it is a basic right to have absolute control over your children ? Should we treat children as objects owned by their parents or individual human beings ?
Individual human beings should have the basic right to develop themselves , pursuit of happiness .
So what if I choose to teach my kids just enough that they can work on my farm and never question my authority ?
Should you be able to force your daughter at the age of 13 to marry a guy over 50 like in some countries ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So from which viewpoint can you conclude that it is a basic right to have absolute control over your children?Should we treat children as objects owned by their parents or individual human beings?
Individual human beings should have the basic right to develop themselves, pursuit of happiness.
So what if I choose to teach my kids just enough that they can work on my farm and never question my authority?
Should you be able to force your daughter at the age of 13 to marry a guy over 50 like in some countries?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937240</id>
	<title>What a shame.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264706100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'll be happy when the US leaves the dark ages and adopts the French/German model, but we as a whole, parents and non-parents alike will have to actually put some effort into caring about education before that happens. Sure, many to most of the homeschoolers have good intentions, but the kids end up harmed on the whole.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll be happy when the US leaves the dark ages and adopts the French/German model , but we as a whole , parents and non-parents alike will have to actually put some effort into caring about education before that happens .
Sure , many to most of the homeschoolers have good intentions , but the kids end up harmed on the whole .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll be happy when the US leaves the dark ages and adopts the French/German model, but we as a whole, parents and non-parents alike will have to actually put some effort into caring about education before that happens.
Sure, many to most of the homeschoolers have good intentions, but the kids end up harmed on the whole.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944982</id>
	<title>Freedom to Choose -- What a concept!</title>
	<author>sturmisch</author>
	<datestamp>1264692540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It would appear from all the grandstanding and know-it-all responses to this thread, that the US has gotten something right:  every family is able to make choices about schooling according to their values, capabilities, and needs.  That freedom is not something to be taken for granted.  To those who want to home school -- more power to you!  If you want to send your kids to the public schools -- good for you!

It's a shame that social structures exist that prohibit parents from doing what they believe is right for their kids.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It would appear from all the grandstanding and know-it-all responses to this thread , that the US has gotten something right : every family is able to make choices about schooling according to their values , capabilities , and needs .
That freedom is not something to be taken for granted .
To those who want to home school -- more power to you !
If you want to send your kids to the public schools -- good for you !
It 's a shame that social structures exist that prohibit parents from doing what they believe is right for their kids .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It would appear from all the grandstanding and know-it-all responses to this thread, that the US has gotten something right:  every family is able to make choices about schooling according to their values, capabilities, and needs.
That freedom is not something to be taken for granted.
To those who want to home school -- more power to you!
If you want to send your kids to the public schools -- good for you!
It's a shame that social structures exist that prohibit parents from doing what they believe is right for their kids.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937548</id>
	<title>Re:Religion, not schooling</title>
	<author>bloobloo</author>
	<datestamp>1264706820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Germany is subject to Article 9 of the European Convention on Human Rights:</p><p>Freedom of thought, conscience and religion</p><p>1. Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience<br>and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion<br>or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with<br>others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in<br>worship, teaching, practice and observance.</p><p>2. Freedom to manifest one&rsquo;s religion or beliefs shall be<br>subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are<br>necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety,<br>for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection<br>of the rights and freedoms of others.</p><p>If the parents felt that they were being persecuted, they have a perfectly valid right of appeal via German courts and then the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg. Article 2 of Protocol 1 of the above convention states:</p><p>No person shall be denied the right to education. In the exercise<br>of any functions which it assumes in relation to education and<br>to teaching, the State shall respect the right of parents to ensure<br>such education and teaching in conformity with their own religious<br>and philosophical convictions.</p><p>So this would specifically be within Strasbourg's jurisdiction.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Germany is subject to Article 9 of the European Convention on Human Rights : Freedom of thought , conscience and religion1 .
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought , conscienceand religion ; this right includes freedom to change his religionor belief and freedom , either alone or in community withothers and in public or private , to manifest his religion or belief , inworship , teaching , practice and observance.2 .
Freedom to manifest one    s religion or beliefs shall besubject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and arenecessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety,for the protection of public order , health or morals , or for the protectionof the rights and freedoms of others.If the parents felt that they were being persecuted , they have a perfectly valid right of appeal via German courts and then the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg .
Article 2 of Protocol 1 of the above convention states : No person shall be denied the right to education .
In the exerciseof any functions which it assumes in relation to education andto teaching , the State shall respect the right of parents to ensuresuch education and teaching in conformity with their own religiousand philosophical convictions.So this would specifically be within Strasbourg 's jurisdiction .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Germany is subject to Article 9 of the European Convention on Human Rights:Freedom of thought, conscience and religion1.
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscienceand religion; this right includes freedom to change his religionor belief and freedom, either alone or in community withothers and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, inworship, teaching, practice and observance.2.
Freedom to manifest one’s religion or beliefs shall besubject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and arenecessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety,for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protectionof the rights and freedoms of others.If the parents felt that they were being persecuted, they have a perfectly valid right of appeal via German courts and then the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg.
Article 2 of Protocol 1 of the above convention states:No person shall be denied the right to education.
In the exerciseof any functions which it assumes in relation to education andto teaching, the State shall respect the right of parents to ensuresuch education and teaching in conformity with their own religiousand philosophical convictions.So this would specifically be within Strasbourg's jurisdiction.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936712</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939038</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>Machtyn</author>
	<datestamp>1264710300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>potentially socially awkward... yes, potentially.  But as I've been studying the homeschooling option, I've found that there are plenty of groups that allow home-schoolers to get together for activities.  Particularly, field trips that the litigation fearing public schools cannot or could not do.   Pack up for the day for a visit to the fine arts museum in the city, no problem. Take off for an overnight stay in another state to study the region, freely accomplished.  There is also good support between the home-schooling community.  Particularly, if one person is better at divulging the math or sciences or literature, whatever, the group can meet there.</htmltext>
<tokenext>potentially socially awkward... yes , potentially .
But as I 've been studying the homeschooling option , I 've found that there are plenty of groups that allow home-schoolers to get together for activities .
Particularly , field trips that the litigation fearing public schools can not or could not do .
Pack up for the day for a visit to the fine arts museum in the city , no problem .
Take off for an overnight stay in another state to study the region , freely accomplished .
There is also good support between the home-schooling community .
Particularly , if one person is better at divulging the math or sciences or literature , whatever , the group can meet there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>potentially socially awkward... yes, potentially.
But as I've been studying the homeschooling option, I've found that there are plenty of groups that allow home-schoolers to get together for activities.
Particularly, field trips that the litigation fearing public schools cannot or could not do.
Pack up for the day for a visit to the fine arts museum in the city, no problem.
Take off for an overnight stay in another state to study the region, freely accomplished.
There is also good support between the home-schooling community.
Particularly, if one person is better at divulging the math or sciences or literature, whatever, the group can meet there.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30947010</id>
	<title>Breeding fanatics?</title>
	<author>Krupuk</author>
	<datestamp>1264757400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Homeschooling is like incest for knowledge!
<br> <br>
In a school, you're permanently confronted with other people and ideas, so you can develop your own view of the world by examining and choosing different subjects of knowledge.
<br> <br>
At home, your parents teach only what they know themselves and you'll teach the same knowledge to your children and so on. There will be no evolution.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Homeschooling is like incest for knowledge !
In a school , you 're permanently confronted with other people and ideas , so you can develop your own view of the world by examining and choosing different subjects of knowledge .
At home , your parents teach only what they know themselves and you 'll teach the same knowledge to your children and so on .
There will be no evolution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Homeschooling is like incest for knowledge!
In a school, you're permanently confronted with other people and ideas, so you can develop your own view of the world by examining and choosing different subjects of knowledge.
At home, your parents teach only what they know themselves and you'll teach the same knowledge to your children and so on.
There will be no evolution.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938550</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264709160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>&gt; Homeschooling is in no way a human right.</p><p>I totally disagree. It's the basic right to raise your children with your own views and values. Today that protects the "Christian Activists", but it also protects any family from being forced to have their children educated by the government.</p></div><p>And getting a decent education, no mater if your parents are nutcases is not a human right?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Homeschooling is in no way a human right.I totally disagree .
It 's the basic right to raise your children with your own views and values .
Today that protects the " Christian Activists " , but it also protects any family from being forced to have their children educated by the government.And getting a decent education , no mater if your parents are nutcases is not a human right ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Homeschooling is in no way a human right.I totally disagree.
It's the basic right to raise your children with your own views and values.
Today that protects the "Christian Activists", but it also protects any family from being forced to have their children educated by the government.And getting a decent education, no mater if your parents are nutcases is not a human right?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30946516</id>
	<title>Re:Religion, not schooling</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264708620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The German supreme court can overrule every decision from Strasbourg, that's because the German politicians where afraid of letting the German people decide, on what terms Germany can join the European union. To put it in a context who is easier to understand, the European constitution can only replace the German constitution, if the people are allowed to vote on it. By the way their current constitution is way better than the one they will get from the European union.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The German supreme court can overrule every decision from Strasbourg , that 's because the German politicians where afraid of letting the German people decide , on what terms Germany can join the European union .
To put it in a context who is easier to understand , the European constitution can only replace the German constitution , if the people are allowed to vote on it .
By the way their current constitution is way better than the one they will get from the European union .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The German supreme court can overrule every decision from Strasbourg, that's because the German politicians where afraid of letting the German people decide, on what terms Germany can join the European union.
To put it in a context who is easier to understand, the European constitution can only replace the German constitution, if the people are allowed to vote on it.
By the way their current constitution is way better than the one they will get from the European union.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937548</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937590</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>tenco</author>
	<datestamp>1264706940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>they are undermining their own freedom to oppose the Government.</p></div><p>How so? Opposing the government via their children?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>they are undermining their own freedom to oppose the Government.How so ?
Opposing the government via their children ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>they are undermining their own freedom to oppose the Government.How so?
Opposing the government via their children?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936760</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30952750</id>
	<title>Re:Hey Germany</title>
	<author>docwatson223</author>
	<datestamp>1264793100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I can honestly say that here in the the US my wife and I can give a BETTER education than the State can provide; a smaller classroom, individual attention, customized curriculum, and all of the plusses of just being home with mom and dad. Looks like Germany wants to homogenize everyone and I'm glad the family got the Asylum they needed!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</htmltext>
<tokenext>I can honestly say that here in the the US my wife and I can give a BETTER education than the State can provide ; a smaller classroom , individual attention , customized curriculum , and all of the plusses of just being home with mom and dad .
Looks like Germany wants to homogenize everyone and I 'm glad the family got the Asylum they needed !
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can honestly say that here in the the US my wife and I can give a BETTER education than the State can provide; a smaller classroom, individual attention, customized curriculum, and all of the plusses of just being home with mom and dad.
Looks like Germany wants to homogenize everyone and I'm glad the family got the Asylum they needed!
:)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938574</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>anyGould</author>
	<datestamp>1264709220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>While I feel for the family, I also think that if there's families out there who deserved asylum more. You know, in countries where they get <b>shot at</b>, maybe?</htmltext>
<tokenext>While I feel for the family , I also think that if there 's families out there who deserved asylum more .
You know , in countries where they get shot at , maybe ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While I feel for the family, I also think that if there's families out there who deserved asylum more.
You know, in countries where they get shot at, maybe?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942248</id>
	<title>Re:I do it</title>
	<author>Asic Eng</author>
	<datestamp>1264676700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>First I thought your daughter was rather cruel, given that questions about school are possibly the one thing kids fear more than going to the dentist. But of course that's how it works: The kid thinks "well I hope she starts drilling soon". Clever woman</htmltext>
<tokenext>First I thought your daughter was rather cruel , given that questions about school are possibly the one thing kids fear more than going to the dentist .
But of course that 's how it works : The kid thinks " well I hope she starts drilling soon " .
Clever woman</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First I thought your daughter was rather cruel, given that questions about school are possibly the one thing kids fear more than going to the dentist.
But of course that's how it works: The kid thinks "well I hope she starts drilling soon".
Clever woman</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936812</id>
	<title>Social group?</title>
	<author>jythie</author>
	<datestamp>1264704960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ahm.. how do home schoolers count as a protectable social group if all they have in common is homeschooling?</p><p>I am not sure this is a good precedent.  This same logic could be applied to any activity that is illegal in one country but legal here.  "I do not want to follow the laws of my home country" should not be an automatic 'you can immigrate to the US' pass.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ahm.. how do home schoolers count as a protectable social group if all they have in common is homeschooling ? I am not sure this is a good precedent .
This same logic could be applied to any activity that is illegal in one country but legal here .
" I do not want to follow the laws of my home country " should not be an automatic 'you can immigrate to the US ' pass .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ahm.. how do home schoolers count as a protectable social group if all they have in common is homeschooling?I am not sure this is a good precedent.
This same logic could be applied to any activity that is illegal in one country but legal here.
"I do not want to follow the laws of my home country" should not be an automatic 'you can immigrate to the US' pass.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940652</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264671780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You have probably not met a lot of parents...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You have probably not met a lot of parents.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You have probably not met a lot of parents...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941750</id>
	<title>Obama: Fixing the immigration system</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264675140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, as someone from this same country, who actually has gone through the "mandatory" school system, and then completed two post-graduate degrees in CS and EE at German Universities, followed with another degree (MBA) from a reputable school in USA, i am outraged by this article.<br>(umm... and yeah, just to call attention to it - I also LEARNED this language you people speak BEFORE U came here. Unlik sum otr peeple whos cum her an dont no how too speek anglais, end dimand that the tax-paiers spent $$$ on offering ESL (English as a second language) classes1)</p><p>Someone like myself, who spent 20+ yrs educating themselves, and kept a clean record, and otherwise followed every single law, in each country, esp. the Immigration Laws of the US of A, i am upset.</p><p>It took me 10+ years, a large part of my "productive life", to gain residency in the USA. My greencard process alone took over 8 years.<br>During that time, i could work in "high tech", pay taxes (likely over 1million total sofar), and contribute to the success of the fabled "Silicon Valley".</p><p>yet - i was UNABLE to leave my employer, and follow the "American Dream" of starting my own company, "creating jobs".</p><p>Instead - "those people" (religious nut-jobs) get simply "political asylum", and others "jump the fence" and are thought to soon receive "amnesty" and citizenship.<br>(i mean - heck, here in California, there is outrage when people even question the practice to give "undocumented immigrants" things like drivers licenses etc.</p><p>This is something i would like politicians of this country to think about. (no, not "my" country, this will be another 4-5 years, until i will become eligible to be graced with the offer of citizenship - it is likely that those nutjobs in the article will be able to vote before i will)</p><p>Who do YOU want to "easily" immigrate to this country?<br>- cheap labour?<br>- law-breaking nut-wings?<br>- educated, law-abiding professionals?</p><p>pick one, and let your representatives know, before it's too late!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , as someone from this same country , who actually has gone through the " mandatory " school system , and then completed two post-graduate degrees in CS and EE at German Universities , followed with another degree ( MBA ) from a reputable school in USA , i am outraged by this article. ( umm.. .
and yeah , just to call attention to it - I also LEARNED this language you people speak BEFORE U came here .
Unlik sum otr peeple whos cum her an dont no how too speek anglais , end dimand that the tax-paiers spent $ $ $ on offering ESL ( English as a second language ) classes1 ) Someone like myself , who spent 20 + yrs educating themselves , and kept a clean record , and otherwise followed every single law , in each country , esp .
the Immigration Laws of the US of A , i am upset.It took me 10 + years , a large part of my " productive life " , to gain residency in the USA .
My greencard process alone took over 8 years.During that time , i could work in " high tech " , pay taxes ( likely over 1million total sofar ) , and contribute to the success of the fabled " Silicon Valley " .yet - i was UNABLE to leave my employer , and follow the " American Dream " of starting my own company , " creating jobs " .Instead - " those people " ( religious nut-jobs ) get simply " political asylum " , and others " jump the fence " and are thought to soon receive " amnesty " and citizenship .
( i mean - heck , here in California , there is outrage when people even question the practice to give " undocumented immigrants " things like drivers licenses etc.This is something i would like politicians of this country to think about .
( no , not " my " country , this will be another 4-5 years , until i will become eligible to be graced with the offer of citizenship - it is likely that those nutjobs in the article will be able to vote before i will ) Who do YOU want to " easily " immigrate to this country ? - cheap labour ? - law-breaking nut-wings ? - educated , law-abiding professionals ? pick one , and let your representatives know , before it 's too late !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, as someone from this same country, who actually has gone through the "mandatory" school system, and then completed two post-graduate degrees in CS and EE at German Universities, followed with another degree (MBA) from a reputable school in USA, i am outraged by this article.(umm...
and yeah, just to call attention to it - I also LEARNED this language you people speak BEFORE U came here.
Unlik sum otr peeple whos cum her an dont no how too speek anglais, end dimand that the tax-paiers spent $$$ on offering ESL (English as a second language) classes1)Someone like myself, who spent 20+ yrs educating themselves, and kept a clean record, and otherwise followed every single law, in each country, esp.
the Immigration Laws of the US of A, i am upset.It took me 10+ years, a large part of my "productive life", to gain residency in the USA.
My greencard process alone took over 8 years.During that time, i could work in "high tech", pay taxes (likely over 1million total sofar), and contribute to the success of the fabled "Silicon Valley".yet - i was UNABLE to leave my employer, and follow the "American Dream" of starting my own company, "creating jobs".Instead - "those people" (religious nut-jobs) get simply "political asylum", and others "jump the fence" and are thought to soon receive "amnesty" and citizenship.
(i mean - heck, here in California, there is outrage when people even question the practice to give "undocumented immigrants" things like drivers licenses etc.This is something i would like politicians of this country to think about.
(no, not "my" country, this will be another 4-5 years, until i will become eligible to be graced with the offer of citizenship - it is likely that those nutjobs in the article will be able to vote before i will)Who do YOU want to "easily" immigrate to this country?- cheap labour?- law-breaking nut-wings?- educated, law-abiding professionals?pick one, and let your representatives know, before it's too late!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936958</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264705380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Germany doesn't stop you from educating your children yourself. All you have to do is <em>taking an exam required by law</em> to do so.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Germany does n't stop you from educating your children yourself .
All you have to do is taking an exam required by law to do so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Germany doesn't stop you from educating your children yourself.
All you have to do is taking an exam required by law to do so.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942074</id>
	<title>You can home school in the UK without a problem.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264676160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In the UK you can home school without any qualifications. As the UK in in Europe then why not go to that ?. I suspect that they just wanted to emigrate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In the UK you can home school without any qualifications .
As the UK in in Europe then why not go to that ? .
I suspect that they just wanted to emigrate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the UK you can home school without any qualifications.
As the UK in in Europe then why not go to that ?.
I suspect that they just wanted to emigrate.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944854</id>
	<title>Re:I do it</title>
	<author>selven</author>
	<datestamp>1264691460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That is, in fact, the proper way to treat authority if you want things to get done in the real world. School seems to be doing a pretty good job.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That is , in fact , the proper way to treat authority if you want things to get done in the real world .
School seems to be doing a pretty good job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is, in fact, the proper way to treat authority if you want things to get done in the real world.
School seems to be doing a pretty good job.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937314</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940288</id>
	<title>Re:Public "education" isn't</title>
	<author>Bragador</author>
	<datestamp>1264670820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As an elementary school teacher myself, I have to respond.</p><p>

<i>The first lesson I teach is: "Stay in the class where you belong."</i>

</p><p>True, but I could also say the first lesson is "You have to learn and not only play. Let's face it, they are kids and they want to play. They don't care about maths, science, politics, music, etc. They want to play. Ask any kid what they'd rather do between learning and playing, and they'll want to play. As a teacher, I have to make sure I teach in a fun and playful way so that it becomes almost like a game, if not a game itself, but it's a hell of a challenge.</p><p>

<i>The second lesson I teach kids is to turn on and off like a light switch.</i>

</p><p>True and false. In the morning we might do maths, then in the afternoon we might do grammar. It's still too long for the kids, yet too short for the teacher. So, I understand that as adults we might perceive this has forcing them to turn on and off as required, but the kids need variety. They don't have the attention and patience adults have. I say, let's finish the cool project tomorrow instead of doing everything the same day and being bored with it at the end of the day.</p><p>

<i>The third lesson I teach you is to surrender your will to a predestined chain of command.</i>

</p><p>Parents already do this before elementary school. It's part of learning how to behave. It's not my place to say if it is good or bad, but we are not living in an anarchist's society. We have a hierarchy in the real world. If kids can't listen to the teacher, will they even bother to willfully follow the laws of society? And would that be good or bad? That's an unfinished debate.</p><p>

<i>The fourth lesson I teach is that only I determine what curriculum you will study.</i>

</p><p>Well, yes. Anyway, kids that age are not ready to teach themselves. They only want to play after all. So, at that age you have to enforce it and explain to them that knowing many things is important. A minority of kids are different. It is true that those truly gifted are stuck in the system. I'd prefer it if kids wanted to learn by themselves, but almost every kid don't. The result is that the current system is excellent for almost everyone, except for kids that are slow and for kids that are too fast. You give interesting extra work for the fast ones and try to mentor the slow ones, but it's a heck of a job. Right now, this might not be perfect, but it's a good way to do things.</p><p>

<i>In lesson five I teach that your self-respect should depend on an observer's measure of your worth. </i>

</p><p>In a way, this is becoming false. If your job is to teach someone to make coffee, there will be many objective criteria that will tell you if the endeavor is a success or a failure. So, what's the problem? On the other hand, if he's criticizing the fact that he's being compared to others to know if he is worth something or not, this is not the case anymore. (At least, not in Quebec). This self-worth problem happens when kids want good marks to impress others, and not when they are intrinsically motivated to master the task at hand. I'm not fond of means and medians and telling kids how successful they are compared to others. This is a private thing. They should try to master the tasks and be motivated to be the best they can. On the other hand, this is completely destroyed when they want to go to university where marks are extremely important. You might say, elementary schools are "ahead" of the rest since it's easier to change how we do things. Try to tell the medical department of your university to not look at marks, but to instead compare the motivations, projects, extra work and personal home researches the students have done. It's too much work for them. It's much more easy to scan a list of students and call those above a certain mark.</p><p>

<i>In lesson six I teach children that they are being watched.</i>

</p><p>And this is bad because? If you don't remind kids they are at school, that bathroom break takes an hour. Give me a break...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As an elementary school teacher myself , I have to respond .
The first lesson I teach is : " Stay in the class where you belong .
" True , but I could also say the first lesson is " You have to learn and not only play .
Let 's face it , they are kids and they want to play .
They do n't care about maths , science , politics , music , etc .
They want to play .
Ask any kid what they 'd rather do between learning and playing , and they 'll want to play .
As a teacher , I have to make sure I teach in a fun and playful way so that it becomes almost like a game , if not a game itself , but it 's a hell of a challenge .
The second lesson I teach kids is to turn on and off like a light switch .
True and false .
In the morning we might do maths , then in the afternoon we might do grammar .
It 's still too long for the kids , yet too short for the teacher .
So , I understand that as adults we might perceive this has forcing them to turn on and off as required , but the kids need variety .
They do n't have the attention and patience adults have .
I say , let 's finish the cool project tomorrow instead of doing everything the same day and being bored with it at the end of the day .
The third lesson I teach you is to surrender your will to a predestined chain of command .
Parents already do this before elementary school .
It 's part of learning how to behave .
It 's not my place to say if it is good or bad , but we are not living in an anarchist 's society .
We have a hierarchy in the real world .
If kids ca n't listen to the teacher , will they even bother to willfully follow the laws of society ?
And would that be good or bad ?
That 's an unfinished debate .
The fourth lesson I teach is that only I determine what curriculum you will study .
Well , yes .
Anyway , kids that age are not ready to teach themselves .
They only want to play after all .
So , at that age you have to enforce it and explain to them that knowing many things is important .
A minority of kids are different .
It is true that those truly gifted are stuck in the system .
I 'd prefer it if kids wanted to learn by themselves , but almost every kid do n't .
The result is that the current system is excellent for almost everyone , except for kids that are slow and for kids that are too fast .
You give interesting extra work for the fast ones and try to mentor the slow ones , but it 's a heck of a job .
Right now , this might not be perfect , but it 's a good way to do things .
In lesson five I teach that your self-respect should depend on an observer 's measure of your worth .
In a way , this is becoming false .
If your job is to teach someone to make coffee , there will be many objective criteria that will tell you if the endeavor is a success or a failure .
So , what 's the problem ?
On the other hand , if he 's criticizing the fact that he 's being compared to others to know if he is worth something or not , this is not the case anymore .
( At least , not in Quebec ) .
This self-worth problem happens when kids want good marks to impress others , and not when they are intrinsically motivated to master the task at hand .
I 'm not fond of means and medians and telling kids how successful they are compared to others .
This is a private thing .
They should try to master the tasks and be motivated to be the best they can .
On the other hand , this is completely destroyed when they want to go to university where marks are extremely important .
You might say , elementary schools are " ahead " of the rest since it 's easier to change how we do things .
Try to tell the medical department of your university to not look at marks , but to instead compare the motivations , projects , extra work and personal home researches the students have done .
It 's too much work for them .
It 's much more easy to scan a list of students and call those above a certain mark .
In lesson six I teach children that they are being watched .
And this is bad because ?
If you do n't remind kids they are at school , that bathroom break takes an hour .
Give me a break.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As an elementary school teacher myself, I have to respond.
The first lesson I teach is: "Stay in the class where you belong.
"

True, but I could also say the first lesson is "You have to learn and not only play.
Let's face it, they are kids and they want to play.
They don't care about maths, science, politics, music, etc.
They want to play.
Ask any kid what they'd rather do between learning and playing, and they'll want to play.
As a teacher, I have to make sure I teach in a fun and playful way so that it becomes almost like a game, if not a game itself, but it's a hell of a challenge.
The second lesson I teach kids is to turn on and off like a light switch.
True and false.
In the morning we might do maths, then in the afternoon we might do grammar.
It's still too long for the kids, yet too short for the teacher.
So, I understand that as adults we might perceive this has forcing them to turn on and off as required, but the kids need variety.
They don't have the attention and patience adults have.
I say, let's finish the cool project tomorrow instead of doing everything the same day and being bored with it at the end of the day.
The third lesson I teach you is to surrender your will to a predestined chain of command.
Parents already do this before elementary school.
It's part of learning how to behave.
It's not my place to say if it is good or bad, but we are not living in an anarchist's society.
We have a hierarchy in the real world.
If kids can't listen to the teacher, will they even bother to willfully follow the laws of society?
And would that be good or bad?
That's an unfinished debate.
The fourth lesson I teach is that only I determine what curriculum you will study.
Well, yes.
Anyway, kids that age are not ready to teach themselves.
They only want to play after all.
So, at that age you have to enforce it and explain to them that knowing many things is important.
A minority of kids are different.
It is true that those truly gifted are stuck in the system.
I'd prefer it if kids wanted to learn by themselves, but almost every kid don't.
The result is that the current system is excellent for almost everyone, except for kids that are slow and for kids that are too fast.
You give interesting extra work for the fast ones and try to mentor the slow ones, but it's a heck of a job.
Right now, this might not be perfect, but it's a good way to do things.
In lesson five I teach that your self-respect should depend on an observer's measure of your worth.
In a way, this is becoming false.
If your job is to teach someone to make coffee, there will be many objective criteria that will tell you if the endeavor is a success or a failure.
So, what's the problem?
On the other hand, if he's criticizing the fact that he's being compared to others to know if he is worth something or not, this is not the case anymore.
(At least, not in Quebec).
This self-worth problem happens when kids want good marks to impress others, and not when they are intrinsically motivated to master the task at hand.
I'm not fond of means and medians and telling kids how successful they are compared to others.
This is a private thing.
They should try to master the tasks and be motivated to be the best they can.
On the other hand, this is completely destroyed when they want to go to university where marks are extremely important.
You might say, elementary schools are "ahead" of the rest since it's easier to change how we do things.
Try to tell the medical department of your university to not look at marks, but to instead compare the motivations, projects, extra work and personal home researches the students have done.
It's too much work for them.
It's much more easy to scan a list of students and call those above a certain mark.
In lesson six I teach children that they are being watched.
And this is bad because?
If you don't remind kids they are at school, that bathroom break takes an hour.
Give me a break...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938402</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936968</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>Mahalalel</author>
	<datestamp>1264705440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Though apparently by "ultra-fanatic" you mean any religious group, I couldn't agree more. It's precisely the reason why I intend to homeschool any children I have<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Though apparently by " ultra-fanatic " you mean any religious group , I could n't agree more .
It 's precisely the reason why I intend to homeschool any children I have ; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Though apparently by "ultra-fanatic" you mean any religious group, I couldn't agree more.
It's precisely the reason why I intend to homeschool any children I have ;)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936606</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938034</id>
	<title>Re:So I presume we will immediately grant asylum..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264707900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Who gives a shit about poor 3rd world, brown-skinneds? Clearly not me, an educated and employed 1st world white-skinned. Am I right?</p><p>As a white man that's been raised in times where it's politically correct <em>and</em> socially acceptable to be racist against white people, can someone give me one good reason why I should care about all the racist brown people? You poor 3rd world brown people make my life harder than it needs to be. For example, you bring diseases back into this country that my ancestors spent hundreds of millions of dollars and countless hours of research to rid our population of. You come to live here through illegal means and drive working wages down to the point our legal citizens can no longer afford to live in the country they were born and raised in. You put unwanted burden on every social program the country has.</p><p>Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses. Right? Illegal immigrant impoverished brown people probably wouldn't be such racists if they did give themselves to our society. The reason it's a complete failure and why it puts an inordinate amount of stress on us is precisely because they don't give themselves to us, they take their proceeds and send them out of the country where $3/hr lets their family live like royalty, while we could never afford the basic necessities to live on that. They subsidize their temporary housing while raping us here by living 10+ people per 2bdr apartment, something 99.99\% of us legals could rarely do. They pay into the social security accounts of the deceased.</p><p>So really, if we've giving +5 insightful mods to clearly racist ideas, where's my +5 insightful for pointing out all the realities of ANY person in a 1st world dealing with droves of poor, sick, 3rd world people infesting their society? Regardless of anyone's skin color.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Who gives a shit about poor 3rd world , brown-skinneds ?
Clearly not me , an educated and employed 1st world white-skinned .
Am I right ? As a white man that 's been raised in times where it 's politically correct and socially acceptable to be racist against white people , can someone give me one good reason why I should care about all the racist brown people ?
You poor 3rd world brown people make my life harder than it needs to be .
For example , you bring diseases back into this country that my ancestors spent hundreds of millions of dollars and countless hours of research to rid our population of .
You come to live here through illegal means and drive working wages down to the point our legal citizens can no longer afford to live in the country they were born and raised in .
You put unwanted burden on every social program the country has.Give us your poor , your tired , your huddled masses .
Right ? Illegal immigrant impoverished brown people probably would n't be such racists if they did give themselves to our society .
The reason it 's a complete failure and why it puts an inordinate amount of stress on us is precisely because they do n't give themselves to us , they take their proceeds and send them out of the country where $ 3/hr lets their family live like royalty , while we could never afford the basic necessities to live on that .
They subsidize their temporary housing while raping us here by living 10 + people per 2bdr apartment , something 99.99 \ % of us legals could rarely do .
They pay into the social security accounts of the deceased.So really , if we 've giving + 5 insightful mods to clearly racist ideas , where 's my + 5 insightful for pointing out all the realities of ANY person in a 1st world dealing with droves of poor , sick , 3rd world people infesting their society ?
Regardless of anyone 's skin color .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who gives a shit about poor 3rd world, brown-skinneds?
Clearly not me, an educated and employed 1st world white-skinned.
Am I right?As a white man that's been raised in times where it's politically correct and socially acceptable to be racist against white people, can someone give me one good reason why I should care about all the racist brown people?
You poor 3rd world brown people make my life harder than it needs to be.
For example, you bring diseases back into this country that my ancestors spent hundreds of millions of dollars and countless hours of research to rid our population of.
You come to live here through illegal means and drive working wages down to the point our legal citizens can no longer afford to live in the country they were born and raised in.
You put unwanted burden on every social program the country has.Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses.
Right? Illegal immigrant impoverished brown people probably wouldn't be such racists if they did give themselves to our society.
The reason it's a complete failure and why it puts an inordinate amount of stress on us is precisely because they don't give themselves to us, they take their proceeds and send them out of the country where $3/hr lets their family live like royalty, while we could never afford the basic necessities to live on that.
They subsidize their temporary housing while raping us here by living 10+ people per 2bdr apartment, something 99.99\% of us legals could rarely do.
They pay into the social security accounts of the deceased.So really, if we've giving +5 insightful mods to clearly racist ideas, where's my +5 insightful for pointing out all the realities of ANY person in a 1st world dealing with droves of poor, sick, 3rd world people infesting their society?
Regardless of anyone's skin color.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936524</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940986</id>
	<title>Re:No story here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264672680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Children are people, not property.  Children have rights too.  If you decide that parents have some kind of total right to dictate what their children are allowed to know about, then you are deciding to take away those children's rights.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Children are people , not property .
Children have rights too .
If you decide that parents have some kind of total right to dictate what their children are allowed to know about , then you are deciding to take away those children 's rights .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Children are people, not property.
Children have rights too.
If you decide that parents have some kind of total right to dictate what their children are allowed to know about, then you are deciding to take away those children's rights.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936606</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>Opportunist</author>
	<datestamp>1264704420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The only problem I have with homeschooling is that the vast majority of homeschooling is done by ultra fanatic religious fringe groups who claim their kids would get all those "wrong" ideas (like, say, a humanistic education and values) when they were sent to a public school.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The only problem I have with homeschooling is that the vast majority of homeschooling is done by ultra fanatic religious fringe groups who claim their kids would get all those " wrong " ideas ( like , say , a humanistic education and values ) when they were sent to a public school .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only problem I have with homeschooling is that the vast majority of homeschooling is done by ultra fanatic religious fringe groups who claim their kids would get all those "wrong" ideas (like, say, a humanistic education and values) when they were sent to a public school.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940388</id>
	<title>Re:No story here</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1264671060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, religion, being a form of schizophrenia, <strong>IS</strong> a disease, after all.<br>Of course those who are ill with it, will by definition fight this to the end. That&rsquo;s how schizophrenia works. Because accepting that they are wrong, is now nearly hard-wired to their own death, in their brains.</p><p>Sure, it&rsquo;s someone&rsquo;s choice, if he want to kill himself and his children in a delusion. But the thing is: Those people lost the ability to make choices, related to reality. Because they live in a schizophrenic fantasy world. It&rsquo;s like saying that because the cat in Alice in Wonderland was evil, all cats should be killed. It. Makes. No. Sense.</p><p>My mother used to make such connections that made no sense. According to her, I had specific character traits, because she knew some guy, who &ldquo;is like&rdquo; me, and that guy had those character traits. I learned to be very good at logic and at staying in physical reality, to not get infected by the crazy myself.</p><p>The worst thing is, that those people are always 100\% sure of themselves, and no discussion will ever change that! Ever! Full stop. (= Not without medication.)</p><p>In conclusion:<br>1. They are detached from reality, in a schizophrenic inner fantasy world.<br>2. Which means, they can&rsquo;t make decisions related to reality.<br>3. Which means, they can not make the right choice for their real own interest.<br>4. Which means, someone has to help them get out of schizophrenia again, before they can be trusted with choices.<br>Sorry. it&rsquo;s sad. And it&rsquo;s very hard to do this the right way. (In the interest of the patient, that is so clouded by schizophrenia.) But it&rsquo;s how it is, and no ignorance is going to change it.</p><p>Also, NO! I do not think they are bad people. Just as much as anyone else with a mental disease is not bad. He just is what he is. A poor guy who had a really seriously bad time, and needs the help of us all.</p><p>Yes, I know these things. I <strong>have</strong> the competence to say this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , religion , being a form of schizophrenia , IS a disease , after all.Of course those who are ill with it , will by definition fight this to the end .
That    s how schizophrenia works .
Because accepting that they are wrong , is now nearly hard-wired to their own death , in their brains.Sure , it    s someone    s choice , if he want to kill himself and his children in a delusion .
But the thing is : Those people lost the ability to make choices , related to reality .
Because they live in a schizophrenic fantasy world .
It    s like saying that because the cat in Alice in Wonderland was evil , all cats should be killed .
It. Makes .
No. Sense.My mother used to make such connections that made no sense .
According to her , I had specific character traits , because she knew some guy , who    is like    me , and that guy had those character traits .
I learned to be very good at logic and at staying in physical reality , to not get infected by the crazy myself.The worst thing is , that those people are always 100 \ % sure of themselves , and no discussion will ever change that !
Ever ! Full stop .
( = Not without medication .
) In conclusion : 1 .
They are detached from reality , in a schizophrenic inner fantasy world.2 .
Which means , they can    t make decisions related to reality.3 .
Which means , they can not make the right choice for their real own interest.4 .
Which means , someone has to help them get out of schizophrenia again , before they can be trusted with choices.Sorry .
it    s sad .
And it    s very hard to do this the right way .
( In the interest of the patient , that is so clouded by schizophrenia .
) But it    s how it is , and no ignorance is going to change it.Also , NO !
I do not think they are bad people .
Just as much as anyone else with a mental disease is not bad .
He just is what he is .
A poor guy who had a really seriously bad time , and needs the help of us all.Yes , I know these things .
I have the competence to say this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, religion, being a form of schizophrenia, IS a disease, after all.Of course those who are ill with it, will by definition fight this to the end.
That’s how schizophrenia works.
Because accepting that they are wrong, is now nearly hard-wired to their own death, in their brains.Sure, it’s someone’s choice, if he want to kill himself and his children in a delusion.
But the thing is: Those people lost the ability to make choices, related to reality.
Because they live in a schizophrenic fantasy world.
It’s like saying that because the cat in Alice in Wonderland was evil, all cats should be killed.
It. Makes.
No. Sense.My mother used to make such connections that made no sense.
According to her, I had specific character traits, because she knew some guy, who “is like” me, and that guy had those character traits.
I learned to be very good at logic and at staying in physical reality, to not get infected by the crazy myself.The worst thing is, that those people are always 100\% sure of themselves, and no discussion will ever change that!
Ever! Full stop.
(= Not without medication.
)In conclusion:1.
They are detached from reality, in a schizophrenic inner fantasy world.2.
Which means, they can’t make decisions related to reality.3.
Which means, they can not make the right choice for their real own interest.4.
Which means, someone has to help them get out of schizophrenia again, before they can be trusted with choices.Sorry.
it’s sad.
And it’s very hard to do this the right way.
(In the interest of the patient, that is so clouded by schizophrenia.
) But it’s how it is, and no ignorance is going to change it.Also, NO!
I do not think they are bad people.
Just as much as anyone else with a mental disease is not bad.
He just is what he is.
A poor guy who had a really seriously bad time, and needs the help of us all.Yes, I know these things.
I have the competence to say this.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30946790</id>
	<title>Re:You can homeschool all you want</title>
	<author>YttriumOxide</author>
	<datestamp>1264797960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>They are my children. They belong to me, not you, government, or any arbitrary third party.</p></div><p>Totally disagree.  They do NOT belong to you at all.  They belong foremost to themselves, and secondarily to the society of which they are a part.  Just as I do, and just as you do.  Therefore the primary educator should be (and pretty much can not fail to be) the individual themselves, and the secondary educator should be the society.  By "the society" in this instance, I mean the state, since the state is the chosen representatives of the will of the society at large.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>They are my children .
They belong to me , not you , government , or any arbitrary third party.Totally disagree .
They do NOT belong to you at all .
They belong foremost to themselves , and secondarily to the society of which they are a part .
Just as I do , and just as you do .
Therefore the primary educator should be ( and pretty much can not fail to be ) the individual themselves , and the secondary educator should be the society .
By " the society " in this instance , I mean the state , since the state is the chosen representatives of the will of the society at large .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They are my children.
They belong to me, not you, government, or any arbitrary third party.Totally disagree.
They do NOT belong to you at all.
They belong foremost to themselves, and secondarily to the society of which they are a part.
Just as I do, and just as you do.
Therefore the primary educator should be (and pretty much can not fail to be) the individual themselves, and the secondary educator should be the society.
By "the society" in this instance, I mean the state, since the state is the chosen representatives of the will of the society at large.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937584</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938282</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>Jesus\_666</author>
	<datestamp>1264708440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>The German government doesn't give a shit about home schooling. However, every German child has the right to a good education and the law defines that as an education by federally tested and approved* teachers (after all, how else do you ensure that a teacher fulfils basic quality criteria?).<br>
<br>
Had one of the two parents passed the First State Examination (there are two but the second applies only if you want to teach at a public school) everything would've been okay. But none of them has and thus the law can't verify that they're actually fit to teach. Since it's not certain that the children are getting an adequate education the usual procedure applies and the police enforce that the children are getting educated by a qualified professional; a public school is the usual place for that so that's where the children go.<br>
<br>
The argument behind the whole issue is that the education of our children is too important to leave it to someone who has no idea what he's doing. I tend to agree.<br>
<br>
<br>
* Apparently, a Master of Education also applies so if you think German universities are going to brainwash you into a slave of the government you can also get your qualification elsewhere.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The German government does n't give a shit about home schooling .
However , every German child has the right to a good education and the law defines that as an education by federally tested and approved * teachers ( after all , how else do you ensure that a teacher fulfils basic quality criteria ? ) .
Had one of the two parents passed the First State Examination ( there are two but the second applies only if you want to teach at a public school ) everything would 've been okay .
But none of them has and thus the law ca n't verify that they 're actually fit to teach .
Since it 's not certain that the children are getting an adequate education the usual procedure applies and the police enforce that the children are getting educated by a qualified professional ; a public school is the usual place for that so that 's where the children go .
The argument behind the whole issue is that the education of our children is too important to leave it to someone who has no idea what he 's doing .
I tend to agree .
* Apparently , a Master of Education also applies so if you think German universities are going to brainwash you into a slave of the government you can also get your qualification elsewhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The German government doesn't give a shit about home schooling.
However, every German child has the right to a good education and the law defines that as an education by federally tested and approved* teachers (after all, how else do you ensure that a teacher fulfils basic quality criteria?).
Had one of the two parents passed the First State Examination (there are two but the second applies only if you want to teach at a public school) everything would've been okay.
But none of them has and thus the law can't verify that they're actually fit to teach.
Since it's not certain that the children are getting an adequate education the usual procedure applies and the police enforce that the children are getting educated by a qualified professional; a public school is the usual place for that so that's where the children go.
The argument behind the whole issue is that the education of our children is too important to leave it to someone who has no idea what he's doing.
I tend to agree.
* Apparently, a Master of Education also applies so if you think German universities are going to brainwash you into a slave of the government you can also get your qualification elsewhere.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936760</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514</id>
	<title>Good</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264704180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is a very sensible verdict frankly, because no other developed western country stops you from educating your children yourself, which frankly would end up with more focused and ambitious, albeit potenially socially awkward children.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a very sensible verdict frankly , because no other developed western country stops you from educating your children yourself , which frankly would end up with more focused and ambitious , albeit potenially socially awkward children .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a very sensible verdict frankly, because no other developed western country stops you from educating your children yourself, which frankly would end up with more focused and ambitious, albeit potenially socially awkward children.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30943216</id>
	<title>Re:I do it</title>
	<author>CodeBuster</author>
	<datestamp>1264680660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>My daughter is a dentist.</p></div><p>Just out of curiosity, did she always want to be a dentist or did that come later? The reason I ask is that most kids, with the possible exception of a dentist's own, grow up loathing the dentist and dreading their annual check-ups or (gasp) cavities. I have never heard a young girl say, "I want to be a dentist when I grow up!"; so it is interesting that your daughter chose a career which is not usually the on many kids' wish lists and tends to be dominated by men in any case.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>My daughter is a dentist.Just out of curiosity , did she always want to be a dentist or did that come later ?
The reason I ask is that most kids , with the possible exception of a dentist 's own , grow up loathing the dentist and dreading their annual check-ups or ( gasp ) cavities .
I have never heard a young girl say , " I want to be a dentist when I grow up !
" ; so it is interesting that your daughter chose a career which is not usually the on many kids ' wish lists and tends to be dominated by men in any case .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My daughter is a dentist.Just out of curiosity, did she always want to be a dentist or did that come later?
The reason I ask is that most kids, with the possible exception of a dentist's own, grow up loathing the dentist and dreading their annual check-ups or (gasp) cavities.
I have never heard a young girl say, "I want to be a dentist when I grow up!
"; so it is interesting that your daughter chose a career which is not usually the on many kids' wish lists and tends to be dominated by men in any case.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944196</id>
	<title>Silly people.</title>
	<author>virigar</author>
	<datestamp>1264686600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If people want to teach their kids in their own way, it's their business, not a government's. We homeschooled our first child for a bit, then he decided he wanted to go to regular schools. But we've come close to yanking them out a couple of times, and still might if we run into actual problems.

Religion is only one reason to do it. My problem with a lot of current education is that it seems to focus a lot less on the basics and adds more and more stuff that I just don't see as relevant to school.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If people want to teach their kids in their own way , it 's their business , not a government 's .
We homeschooled our first child for a bit , then he decided he wanted to go to regular schools .
But we 've come close to yanking them out a couple of times , and still might if we run into actual problems .
Religion is only one reason to do it .
My problem with a lot of current education is that it seems to focus a lot less on the basics and adds more and more stuff that I just do n't see as relevant to school .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If people want to teach their kids in their own way, it's their business, not a government's.
We homeschooled our first child for a bit, then he decided he wanted to go to regular schools.
But we've come close to yanking them out a couple of times, and still might if we run into actual problems.
Religion is only one reason to do it.
My problem with a lot of current education is that it seems to focus a lot less on the basics and adds more and more stuff that I just don't see as relevant to school.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941804</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264675320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If you think a government being able to force you to send your children to someplace to teach them what the government wants them to learn isn't a violation of a basic human right, then I don't know what kind of rights you think humans should have.</p></div><p>From where do you get this "teach them what the government wants them to learn" nonsense? The law in question is that kids need to be taught by <i>a qualified teacher</i>. Doesn't have to be a public school. Teaching kids is an important job, and it's not a bad idea to leave it to people who know how to do it.</p><p>Parents aren't allowed to perform surgery on their kids either if they aren't qualified physicians. Another violation of human rights?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you think a government being able to force you to send your children to someplace to teach them what the government wants them to learn is n't a violation of a basic human right , then I do n't know what kind of rights you think humans should have.From where do you get this " teach them what the government wants them to learn " nonsense ?
The law in question is that kids need to be taught by a qualified teacher .
Does n't have to be a public school .
Teaching kids is an important job , and it 's not a bad idea to leave it to people who know how to do it.Parents are n't allowed to perform surgery on their kids either if they are n't qualified physicians .
Another violation of human rights ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you think a government being able to force you to send your children to someplace to teach them what the government wants them to learn isn't a violation of a basic human right, then I don't know what kind of rights you think humans should have.From where do you get this "teach them what the government wants them to learn" nonsense?
The law in question is that kids need to be taught by a qualified teacher.
Doesn't have to be a public school.
Teaching kids is an important job, and it's not a bad idea to leave it to people who know how to do it.Parents aren't allowed to perform surgery on their kids either if they aren't qualified physicians.
Another violation of human rights?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937246</id>
	<title>Re:I do it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264706100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>How do you address the social aspects of school?</i></p><p>Between church, Cub/Boy Scouts (our city has one cub scout pack made up of exclusively homeschoolers, and one boy scout troop that is about 50/50), Awanas, and volunteering at a church-based public service ministry, my kids get plenty of social interaction.  They tend to see many of the same kids throughout different events.</p><p>You'd be surprised how Internet-savvy homeschool teachers are.  They don't often post to<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/., but there are a number of metro-area homeschool organizations that use Google or Yahoo groups to communicate and coordinate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How do you address the social aspects of school ? Between church , Cub/Boy Scouts ( our city has one cub scout pack made up of exclusively homeschoolers , and one boy scout troop that is about 50/50 ) , Awanas , and volunteering at a church-based public service ministry , my kids get plenty of social interaction .
They tend to see many of the same kids throughout different events.You 'd be surprised how Internet-savvy homeschool teachers are .
They do n't often post to /. , but there are a number of metro-area homeschool organizations that use Google or Yahoo groups to communicate and coordinate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How do you address the social aspects of school?Between church, Cub/Boy Scouts (our city has one cub scout pack made up of exclusively homeschoolers, and one boy scout troop that is about 50/50), Awanas, and volunteering at a church-based public service ministry, my kids get plenty of social interaction.
They tend to see many of the same kids throughout different events.You'd be surprised how Internet-savvy homeschool teachers are.
They don't often post to /., but there are a number of metro-area homeschool organizations that use Google or Yahoo groups to communicate and coordinate.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30985472</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>Reservoir Penguin</author>
	<datestamp>1265057220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wait a second? In Germany you need a state certificate to prove you can teach your own kids??? Jeez, even here in Russia parents are free to homeschool their children.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wait a second ?
In Germany you need a state certificate to prove you can teach your own kids ? ? ?
Jeez , even here in Russia parents are free to homeschool their children .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wait a second?
In Germany you need a state certificate to prove you can teach your own kids???
Jeez, even here in Russia parents are free to homeschool their children.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938282</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939164</id>
	<title>Re:It would be a violation of human rights when:</title>
	<author>kevinNCSU</author>
	<datestamp>1264710600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Just to check, but your suggesting that Germany kick out the ambassador of a country that has full-scale military bases operating inside its borders because 4(?) of their citizens decided to move to said country of their own volition and came up with a legal reason to make said country allow them to remain?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just to check , but your suggesting that Germany kick out the ambassador of a country that has full-scale military bases operating inside its borders because 4 ( ?
) of their citizens decided to move to said country of their own volition and came up with a legal reason to make said country allow them to remain ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just to check, but your suggesting that Germany kick out the ambassador of a country that has full-scale military bases operating inside its borders because 4(?
) of their citizens decided to move to said country of their own volition and came up with a legal reason to make said country allow them to remain?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936776</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938972</id>
	<title>Re:I do it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264710120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"You'd be surprised how Internet-savvy homeschool teachers are. They don't often post to<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.,"...</p><p>Correct...</p><p>Posting unpopular view points to<nobr> <wbr></nobr>./ could be equated to showing up at a SBC meeting wearing a Save-the-Gay-Whales-for-Allah T-shirt while drinking a beer. Unwelcome, proven pointless, and more than likely to result in the larger "enlightened" group taking up virtual pitchforks and yelling "Get a rope, they ain't like us!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" You 'd be surprised how Internet-savvy homeschool teachers are .
They do n't often post to /. , " ...Correct...Posting unpopular view points to ./ could be equated to showing up at a SBC meeting wearing a Save-the-Gay-Whales-for-Allah T-shirt while drinking a beer .
Unwelcome , proven pointless , and more than likely to result in the larger " enlightened " group taking up virtual pitchforks and yelling " Get a rope , they ai n't like us !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"You'd be surprised how Internet-savvy homeschool teachers are.
They don't often post to /.,"...Correct...Posting unpopular view points to ./ could be equated to showing up at a SBC meeting wearing a Save-the-Gay-Whales-for-Allah T-shirt while drinking a beer.
Unwelcome, proven pointless, and more than likely to result in the larger "enlightened" group taking up virtual pitchforks and yelling "Get a rope, they ain't like us!
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937246</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936760</id>
	<title>Good</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264704840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Good. Raising children is the job of parents, not the Government, and it should be perfectly ok for parents to opt out of the school system if it doesn't suit them <i>for any reason</i>. Fascistic governments hate the idea that parents have the freedom to teach their children <i>whatever they want</i>. In Britain we have seen the Government attempting to smear home educators by <a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/schools/is-the-government-right-to-be-concerned-about-homeschooling-1631969.html" title="independent.co.uk" rel="nofollow">getting their mouthpieces to spread fear about unchecked child abuse</a> [independent.co.uk]. The pieces are being put into place for an outright ban, and the sad thing is that so-called "liberals" will probably support it on the grounds that it will stop "the children" being "brainwashed" about Jesus, not realising that they are undermining their own freedom to oppose the Government.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Good .
Raising children is the job of parents , not the Government , and it should be perfectly ok for parents to opt out of the school system if it does n't suit them for any reason .
Fascistic governments hate the idea that parents have the freedom to teach their children whatever they want .
In Britain we have seen the Government attempting to smear home educators by getting their mouthpieces to spread fear about unchecked child abuse [ independent.co.uk ] .
The pieces are being put into place for an outright ban , and the sad thing is that so-called " liberals " will probably support it on the grounds that it will stop " the children " being " brainwashed " about Jesus , not realising that they are undermining their own freedom to oppose the Government .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good.
Raising children is the job of parents, not the Government, and it should be perfectly ok for parents to opt out of the school system if it doesn't suit them for any reason.
Fascistic governments hate the idea that parents have the freedom to teach their children whatever they want.
In Britain we have seen the Government attempting to smear home educators by getting their mouthpieces to spread fear about unchecked child abuse [independent.co.uk].
The pieces are being put into place for an outright ban, and the sad thing is that so-called "liberals" will probably support it on the grounds that it will stop "the children" being "brainwashed" about Jesus, not realising that they are undermining their own freedom to oppose the Government.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937290</id>
	<title>Re:You can homeschool all you want</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264706220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Aww, I see, so you get to decide what morals are good for my children?  I really do not think governments around the world have a good track records on teaching morals.  Germany is no exception.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Aww , I see , so you get to decide what morals are good for my children ?
I really do not think governments around the world have a good track records on teaching morals .
Germany is no exception .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Aww, I see, so you get to decide what morals are good for my children?
I really do not think governments around the world have a good track records on teaching morals.
Germany is no exception.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940924</id>
	<title>Re:No story here</title>
	<author>isomer1</author>
	<datestamp>1264672500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Children are not property.  Parents are not owners.<br>
<br>
Parenting is baffling mysterious art which involves guiding the development of another human being.  It is an admirable task.  But the raising of children is not done in a vacuum and is not a 'right'.  We are a society, each of us responsible to act in act in accordance with the social contracts that exist both naturally and that we have developed as a culture.<br>
<br>
Under your logic the actions of someone like Josef Fritzl are perfectly acceptable, after all who are you Pudge to say what he can and can't do with his daughter.  Now you may counter that those are two entirely different scenarios, but I would argue that 'educating' your children through deliberate omission is highly damaging albeit more subtle.  Parenting is a very gray area where an adult is directly responsible for the raising of the child, and thus makes a great many decisions that a lifelong impact on the child, but once that child is grown there is the expectation (which I consider reasonable) that they will be able to interact as a free-thinking member of the society.  It is reasonable that the community at large should place certain expectations on the education children receive and the environment in which they live.  Parents may be bear the primary responsibility for child rearing, but again they are not property.  Neighbors, friends, fellow citizens, even random passerbys on the street still have an obligations to look out for the child.<br>
<br>
The adage, "It takes a whole village to raise a child," comes to mind.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Children are not property .
Parents are not owners .
Parenting is baffling mysterious art which involves guiding the development of another human being .
It is an admirable task .
But the raising of children is not done in a vacuum and is not a 'right' .
We are a society , each of us responsible to act in act in accordance with the social contracts that exist both naturally and that we have developed as a culture .
Under your logic the actions of someone like Josef Fritzl are perfectly acceptable , after all who are you Pudge to say what he can and ca n't do with his daughter .
Now you may counter that those are two entirely different scenarios , but I would argue that 'educating ' your children through deliberate omission is highly damaging albeit more subtle .
Parenting is a very gray area where an adult is directly responsible for the raising of the child , and thus makes a great many decisions that a lifelong impact on the child , but once that child is grown there is the expectation ( which I consider reasonable ) that they will be able to interact as a free-thinking member of the society .
It is reasonable that the community at large should place certain expectations on the education children receive and the environment in which they live .
Parents may be bear the primary responsibility for child rearing , but again they are not property .
Neighbors , friends , fellow citizens , even random passerbys on the street still have an obligations to look out for the child .
The adage , " It takes a whole village to raise a child , " comes to mind .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Children are not property.
Parents are not owners.
Parenting is baffling mysterious art which involves guiding the development of another human being.
It is an admirable task.
But the raising of children is not done in a vacuum and is not a 'right'.
We are a society, each of us responsible to act in act in accordance with the social contracts that exist both naturally and that we have developed as a culture.
Under your logic the actions of someone like Josef Fritzl are perfectly acceptable, after all who are you Pudge to say what he can and can't do with his daughter.
Now you may counter that those are two entirely different scenarios, but I would argue that 'educating' your children through deliberate omission is highly damaging albeit more subtle.
Parenting is a very gray area where an adult is directly responsible for the raising of the child, and thus makes a great many decisions that a lifelong impact on the child, but once that child is grown there is the expectation (which I consider reasonable) that they will be able to interact as a free-thinking member of the society.
It is reasonable that the community at large should place certain expectations on the education children receive and the environment in which they live.
Parents may be bear the primary responsibility for child rearing, but again they are not property.
Neighbors, friends, fellow citizens, even random passerbys on the street still have an obligations to look out for the child.
The adage, "It takes a whole village to raise a child," comes to mind.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30953924</id>
	<title>Homeschooled all my life</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264798620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's just individuals and personalities. There are far too many generalizations on this thread, and far too often people think of "homeschooling" as some sort of organized force. It's not. DIY education is more of a bazaar, if you will.</p><p>I was homeschooled from Kindergarten all the way through high school, and now I'm attending a top school in computer science and have had numerous internships with very good companies (and have another internship with a company that regularly pops up here on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. on the west coast lined up for this summer). I would consider myself in no ways socially crippled. I have always had a sizable group of good friends all my life in a several circles. Now I live a pretty stable life with a steady girlfriend and active social life. I would consider myself quite the opposite of shy or maladjusted. My parents were religious; however, fairly open minded, and always encouraged me to figure things out for myself, and even though I do not agree with them on all points in philosophy or religion, they support me with whatever I believe. My point here isn't to brag about having a good life -- I mean, it's had its up and downs -- or saying that homeschooling has made me this way -- I'm sure I would have been fine in public school -- my point is that everybody is unique. Those shy awkward homeschoolers could very well have been just as shy and awkward (or even more so) had they been in public school. Homeschooling may helped have shaped me into being who I am, but at the same time I may have acquired the same traits (academic, arrogant, and anti-authoritarian) elsewhere. Ultimately, I think it comes down to individuals. In my case, as a child I have had some medical issues for which homeschooling was very advantageous. However, having quite a few homeschooled friends, I know there are many other reasons for homeschooling, and the educational quality varies wildly -- just like in public school.</p><p>If I have any kids in the future (I'm not sure if I want to be responsible for contributing to over-population), I can't say if I'll homeschool them or not because I haven't met them. It's a very individual decision.</p><p>Anyway, that's my two cents and mini-autobiography. Take it or leave it, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's just individuals and personalities .
There are far too many generalizations on this thread , and far too often people think of " homeschooling " as some sort of organized force .
It 's not .
DIY education is more of a bazaar , if you will.I was homeschooled from Kindergarten all the way through high school , and now I 'm attending a top school in computer science and have had numerous internships with very good companies ( and have another internship with a company that regularly pops up here on / .
on the west coast lined up for this summer ) .
I would consider myself in no ways socially crippled .
I have always had a sizable group of good friends all my life in a several circles .
Now I live a pretty stable life with a steady girlfriend and active social life .
I would consider myself quite the opposite of shy or maladjusted .
My parents were religious ; however , fairly open minded , and always encouraged me to figure things out for myself , and even though I do not agree with them on all points in philosophy or religion , they support me with whatever I believe .
My point here is n't to brag about having a good life -- I mean , it 's had its up and downs -- or saying that homeschooling has made me this way -- I 'm sure I would have been fine in public school -- my point is that everybody is unique .
Those shy awkward homeschoolers could very well have been just as shy and awkward ( or even more so ) had they been in public school .
Homeschooling may helped have shaped me into being who I am , but at the same time I may have acquired the same traits ( academic , arrogant , and anti-authoritarian ) elsewhere .
Ultimately , I think it comes down to individuals .
In my case , as a child I have had some medical issues for which homeschooling was very advantageous .
However , having quite a few homeschooled friends , I know there are many other reasons for homeschooling , and the educational quality varies wildly -- just like in public school.If I have any kids in the future ( I 'm not sure if I want to be responsible for contributing to over-population ) , I ca n't say if I 'll homeschool them or not because I have n't met them .
It 's a very individual decision.Anyway , that 's my two cents and mini-autobiography .
Take it or leave it , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's just individuals and personalities.
There are far too many generalizations on this thread, and far too often people think of "homeschooling" as some sort of organized force.
It's not.
DIY education is more of a bazaar, if you will.I was homeschooled from Kindergarten all the way through high school, and now I'm attending a top school in computer science and have had numerous internships with very good companies (and have another internship with a company that regularly pops up here on /.
on the west coast lined up for this summer).
I would consider myself in no ways socially crippled.
I have always had a sizable group of good friends all my life in a several circles.
Now I live a pretty stable life with a steady girlfriend and active social life.
I would consider myself quite the opposite of shy or maladjusted.
My parents were religious; however, fairly open minded, and always encouraged me to figure things out for myself, and even though I do not agree with them on all points in philosophy or religion, they support me with whatever I believe.
My point here isn't to brag about having a good life -- I mean, it's had its up and downs -- or saying that homeschooling has made me this way -- I'm sure I would have been fine in public school -- my point is that everybody is unique.
Those shy awkward homeschoolers could very well have been just as shy and awkward (or even more so) had they been in public school.
Homeschooling may helped have shaped me into being who I am, but at the same time I may have acquired the same traits (academic, arrogant, and anti-authoritarian) elsewhere.
Ultimately, I think it comes down to individuals.
In my case, as a child I have had some medical issues for which homeschooling was very advantageous.
However, having quite a few homeschooled friends, I know there are many other reasons for homeschooling, and the educational quality varies wildly -- just like in public school.If I have any kids in the future (I'm not sure if I want to be responsible for contributing to over-population), I can't say if I'll homeschool them or not because I haven't met them.
It's a very individual decision.Anyway, that's my two cents and mini-autobiography.
Take it or leave it, etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936930</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>Synn</author>
	<datestamp>1264705320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; who claim their kids would get all those "wrong" ideas (like, say, a humanistic education and values)</p><p>Yeah, but that's the thing with basic rights like this. They don't care what someone's definition of "wrong" is, because everyone has their own opinion on right vs wrong.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; who claim their kids would get all those " wrong " ideas ( like , say , a humanistic education and values ) Yeah , but that 's the thing with basic rights like this .
They do n't care what someone 's definition of " wrong " is , because everyone has their own opinion on right vs wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; who claim their kids would get all those "wrong" ideas (like, say, a humanistic education and values)Yeah, but that's the thing with basic rights like this.
They don't care what someone's definition of "wrong" is, because everyone has their own opinion on right vs wrong.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936606</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942600</id>
	<title>Re:So I presume we will immediately grant asylum..</title>
	<author>Blakey Rat</author>
	<datestamp>1264678140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>all afghani girls who for years could not go to school (did we give asylum to all that requested?)</i></p><p>Did any Afghani girls come to the US and claim Asylum? I don't know of any cases.</p><p><i>all the africans who cannot go to school because of social problems (did we give asylum to all that requested?)</i></p><p>Did any of these Africans you mention come to the US and claim Asylum? I don't know of any cases.</p><p><i>Clearly shows how racist and politically biased the courts are: a group of (likely) right wing white people always get precedence over some poor 3rd world, brown-skinned, poor fellow...</i></p><p>You have an interesting definition of the word "clearly." You haven't provided a single example supporting your case at all, in fact-- pretty much the opposite of "clear."</p><p>It's a lot more likely that Racism is your pet issue and you're really, really stretching to make this a Racism issue and not a Freedom of Speech issue.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>all afghani girls who for years could not go to school ( did we give asylum to all that requested ?
) Did any Afghani girls come to the US and claim Asylum ?
I do n't know of any cases.all the africans who can not go to school because of social problems ( did we give asylum to all that requested ?
) Did any of these Africans you mention come to the US and claim Asylum ?
I do n't know of any cases.Clearly shows how racist and politically biased the courts are : a group of ( likely ) right wing white people always get precedence over some poor 3rd world , brown-skinned , poor fellow...You have an interesting definition of the word " clearly .
" You have n't provided a single example supporting your case at all , in fact-- pretty much the opposite of " clear .
" It 's a lot more likely that Racism is your pet issue and you 're really , really stretching to make this a Racism issue and not a Freedom of Speech issue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>all afghani girls who for years could not go to school (did we give asylum to all that requested?
)Did any Afghani girls come to the US and claim Asylum?
I don't know of any cases.all the africans who cannot go to school because of social problems (did we give asylum to all that requested?
)Did any of these Africans you mention come to the US and claim Asylum?
I don't know of any cases.Clearly shows how racist and politically biased the courts are: a group of (likely) right wing white people always get precedence over some poor 3rd world, brown-skinned, poor fellow...You have an interesting definition of the word "clearly.
" You haven't provided a single example supporting your case at all, in fact-- pretty much the opposite of "clear.
"It's a lot more likely that Racism is your pet issue and you're really, really stretching to make this a Racism issue and not a Freedom of Speech issue.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936524</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938882</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>Kjella</author>
	<datestamp>1264709880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Look, I don't think government schools are the holy grail and think alternative methods of teaching in private schools can offer good alternatives. But with the danger of invoking the "think of the children" argument, refusing to teach them major and important topics of life and the world around them is a very special kind of child abuse. If you seriously think the government should take no action to ensure children get at least a minimum level of education, then I strongly disagree with you. The whole argument reminds me very much of parents that neglect or abuse their kids and cry foul on any intervention from the government because they're the parents and think that makes them lord and master over their children.</p><p>Since you speak of human rights, perhaps a few quotes from Convention on the Rights of the Child:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>1. States Parties recognize the right of the child to education, and with a view to achieving this right progressively and on the basis of equal opportunity, they shall, in particular:<br>(a) Make primary education <b>compulsory</b> and available free to all;</p></div><p><div class="quote"><p>2. No part of the present article or article 28 shall be construed so as to interfere with the liberty of individuals and bodies to establish and direct educational institutions, subject always to the observance of the principle set forth in paragraph 1 of the present article and to the requirements that the education given in such institutions <b>shall conform to such minimum standards as may be laid down by the State</b>.</p></div><p>It should be large clue that these are Christians refusing the education done in a heavily Christian country (64\% christian, 30\% no registered religion, 5\% muslim), they're hardly evangelizing other religions. They're refusing because their children could even hear about other religions. Or about this whole nasty business of having sex, I'm sure they'll stick their heads in the sand until their daughters come home pregnant. To be honest, sometimes you should worry more about the parents than the government...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Look , I do n't think government schools are the holy grail and think alternative methods of teaching in private schools can offer good alternatives .
But with the danger of invoking the " think of the children " argument , refusing to teach them major and important topics of life and the world around them is a very special kind of child abuse .
If you seriously think the government should take no action to ensure children get at least a minimum level of education , then I strongly disagree with you .
The whole argument reminds me very much of parents that neglect or abuse their kids and cry foul on any intervention from the government because they 're the parents and think that makes them lord and master over their children.Since you speak of human rights , perhaps a few quotes from Convention on the Rights of the Child : 1 .
States Parties recognize the right of the child to education , and with a view to achieving this right progressively and on the basis of equal opportunity , they shall , in particular : ( a ) Make primary education compulsory and available free to all ; 2 .
No part of the present article or article 28 shall be construed so as to interfere with the liberty of individuals and bodies to establish and direct educational institutions , subject always to the observance of the principle set forth in paragraph 1 of the present article and to the requirements that the education given in such institutions shall conform to such minimum standards as may be laid down by the State.It should be large clue that these are Christians refusing the education done in a heavily Christian country ( 64 \ % christian , 30 \ % no registered religion , 5 \ % muslim ) , they 're hardly evangelizing other religions .
They 're refusing because their children could even hear about other religions .
Or about this whole nasty business of having sex , I 'm sure they 'll stick their heads in the sand until their daughters come home pregnant .
To be honest , sometimes you should worry more about the parents than the government.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look, I don't think government schools are the holy grail and think alternative methods of teaching in private schools can offer good alternatives.
But with the danger of invoking the "think of the children" argument, refusing to teach them major and important topics of life and the world around them is a very special kind of child abuse.
If you seriously think the government should take no action to ensure children get at least a minimum level of education, then I strongly disagree with you.
The whole argument reminds me very much of parents that neglect or abuse their kids and cry foul on any intervention from the government because they're the parents and think that makes them lord and master over their children.Since you speak of human rights, perhaps a few quotes from Convention on the Rights of the Child:1.
States Parties recognize the right of the child to education, and with a view to achieving this right progressively and on the basis of equal opportunity, they shall, in particular:(a) Make primary education compulsory and available free to all;2.
No part of the present article or article 28 shall be construed so as to interfere with the liberty of individuals and bodies to establish and direct educational institutions, subject always to the observance of the principle set forth in paragraph 1 of the present article and to the requirements that the education given in such institutions shall conform to such minimum standards as may be laid down by the State.It should be large clue that these are Christians refusing the education done in a heavily Christian country (64\% christian, 30\% no registered religion, 5\% muslim), they're hardly evangelizing other religions.
They're refusing because their children could even hear about other religions.
Or about this whole nasty business of having sex, I'm sure they'll stick their heads in the sand until their daughters come home pregnant.
To be honest, sometimes you should worry more about the parents than the government...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30957578</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>Sally Forth</author>
	<datestamp>1264771320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, according to all the studies that have been done on the subject thus far, it <i>is</i> the majority of homeschooled children who are "more focused and ambitious". They also, as adults, are far more likely to engage in the political process and volunteer their time in the community.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , according to all the studies that have been done on the subject thus far , it is the majority of homeschooled children who are " more focused and ambitious " .
They also , as adults , are far more likely to engage in the political process and volunteer their time in the community .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, according to all the studies that have been done on the subject thus far, it is the majority of homeschooled children who are "more focused and ambitious".
They also, as adults, are far more likely to engage in the political process and volunteer their time in the community.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937176</id>
	<title>No lack of bigotry on this thread.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264705980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How many homeschoolers have you people interacted with anyway? This looks like a case where you've never ever actually met one except that bad kid in the back who argues with the biology professor, who turns out to be one. You then gleefully stereotype every homeschooled kid with that same stamp, along with a few horrific rumours you imagined or picked up on the internet.</p><p>I realize there are bad cases out there, but most homeschoolers are never going to be noticed in the end because they turn out just like everybody else. They go on to get normal jobs and like like normal people.  There are plenty of cases I could name where people educated in your public schools turn out to be welfare freeloaders and deadbeats.</p><p>I'm so glad I live in Canada where homeschooling is actually supported by the government and treated with marginal respect.</p><p>Now look, I've refrained from profanity, calling you Nazis, and typing in all caps.  All I want in return is to not be treated like some sort of slime because I didn't grow up inside the walls of your public education system.</p><p>[/homeschooledkid]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How many homeschoolers have you people interacted with anyway ?
This looks like a case where you 've never ever actually met one except that bad kid in the back who argues with the biology professor , who turns out to be one .
You then gleefully stereotype every homeschooled kid with that same stamp , along with a few horrific rumours you imagined or picked up on the internet.I realize there are bad cases out there , but most homeschoolers are never going to be noticed in the end because they turn out just like everybody else .
They go on to get normal jobs and like like normal people .
There are plenty of cases I could name where people educated in your public schools turn out to be welfare freeloaders and deadbeats.I 'm so glad I live in Canada where homeschooling is actually supported by the government and treated with marginal respect.Now look , I 've refrained from profanity , calling you Nazis , and typing in all caps .
All I want in return is to not be treated like some sort of slime because I did n't grow up inside the walls of your public education system .
[ /homeschooledkid ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How many homeschoolers have you people interacted with anyway?
This looks like a case where you've never ever actually met one except that bad kid in the back who argues with the biology professor, who turns out to be one.
You then gleefully stereotype every homeschooled kid with that same stamp, along with a few horrific rumours you imagined or picked up on the internet.I realize there are bad cases out there, but most homeschoolers are never going to be noticed in the end because they turn out just like everybody else.
They go on to get normal jobs and like like normal people.
There are plenty of cases I could name where people educated in your public schools turn out to be welfare freeloaders and deadbeats.I'm so glad I live in Canada where homeschooling is actually supported by the government and treated with marginal respect.Now look, I've refrained from profanity, calling you Nazis, and typing in all caps.
All I want in return is to not be treated like some sort of slime because I didn't grow up inside the walls of your public education system.
[/homeschooledkid]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937084</id>
	<title>Re:Homeschooling =/= fundamentalist schooling</title>
	<author>gedrin</author>
	<datestamp>1264705800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>What on Earth made you think that<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.'ers wouldn't have an irrational reaction to the idea of homeschooling?</htmltext>
<tokenext>What on Earth made you think that / .
'ers would n't have an irrational reaction to the idea of homeschooling ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What on Earth made you think that /.
'ers wouldn't have an irrational reaction to the idea of homeschooling?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936876</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937706</id>
	<title>Re:You can homeschool all you want</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264707120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>We have whole states here in the US that are filled with nincompoops because of homeschooling.</p></div><p>Isn't that the load of bullsh*t I ordered last week?  Oh, let's blame the homeschoolers and call for their genocide!! Ja voll!!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We have whole states here in the US that are filled with nincompoops because of homeschooling.Is n't that the load of bullsh * t I ordered last week ?
Oh , let 's blame the homeschoolers and call for their genocide ! !
Ja voll !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We have whole states here in the US that are filled with nincompoops because of homeschooling.Isn't that the load of bullsh*t I ordered last week?
Oh, let's blame the homeschoolers and call for their genocide!!
Ja voll!
!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941438</id>
	<title>Re:I do it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264674000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>How do you address the social aspects of school? A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people, larger groups, and authority respectfully and responsibly. Its unfortunate, but part of being a productive adult is working with difficult strangers or at least working around them.</p></div><p>It's a common fallacy that not being socialized is bad. Unfortunately the people who support this argument are the status quo who have been socialized.</p><p>There would be far less distress, school shootings, suicides, gangs, riots and vandalism if people didn't feel the need to socialize. The less people are exposed to the evils of society, the better a society will develop.</p><p>But in these types of conversation logic often gets trumped by folk belief. Hence your +5 Insightful rating.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How do you address the social aspects of school ?
A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people , larger groups , and authority respectfully and responsibly .
Its unfortunate , but part of being a productive adult is working with difficult strangers or at least working around them.It 's a common fallacy that not being socialized is bad .
Unfortunately the people who support this argument are the status quo who have been socialized.There would be far less distress , school shootings , suicides , gangs , riots and vandalism if people did n't feel the need to socialize .
The less people are exposed to the evils of society , the better a society will develop.But in these types of conversation logic often gets trumped by folk belief .
Hence your + 5 Insightful rating .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How do you address the social aspects of school?
A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people, larger groups, and authority respectfully and responsibly.
Its unfortunate, but part of being a productive adult is working with difficult strangers or at least working around them.It's a common fallacy that not being socialized is bad.
Unfortunately the people who support this argument are the status quo who have been socialized.There would be far less distress, school shootings, suicides, gangs, riots and vandalism if people didn't feel the need to socialize.
The less people are exposed to the evils of society, the better a society will develop.But in these types of conversation logic often gets trumped by folk belief.
Hence your +5 Insightful rating.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30945070</id>
	<title>Oh!  He's mean!  Let's call him a troll!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264693380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>People are just modding me down because they disagree.  I said what the majority of people on this site feel and know to be true.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People are just modding me down because they disagree .
I said what the majority of people on this site feel and know to be true .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People are just modding me down because they disagree.
I said what the majority of people on this site feel and know to be true.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939250</id>
	<title>There is nothing wrong with protecting your kids..</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1264710900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...from the indoctrination of &ldquo;become an automate. Don&rsquo;t think. Do repetitive stuff until all imagination is dead. Obey and don&rsquo;t question your godlike know-everything teachers.&rdquo;.</p><p>School in Germany stems directly from Bismarck&rsquo;s idea, of creating something like an army training camp, but for children. To follow the then-ideal of obeying, being quiet and sitting still.</p><p>Of course it all stands and falls with if you actually offer them something better. Including the ability to make friends and have social training in the same age. I guess if a group of parents has a group of around 20+ children, and wants to teach modern concepts, like giving every part of the brain and of life equal time, teaching them independent free thought and how to have a secure sense of reality, then this is a really great thing.</p><p>But somehow I doubt that this is the case here.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...from the indoctrination of    become an automate .
Don    t think .
Do repetitive stuff until all imagination is dead .
Obey and don    t question your godlike know-everything teachers.    .School in Germany stems directly from Bismarck    s idea , of creating something like an army training camp , but for children .
To follow the then-ideal of obeying , being quiet and sitting still.Of course it all stands and falls with if you actually offer them something better .
Including the ability to make friends and have social training in the same age .
I guess if a group of parents has a group of around 20 + children , and wants to teach modern concepts , like giving every part of the brain and of life equal time , teaching them independent free thought and how to have a secure sense of reality , then this is a really great thing.But somehow I doubt that this is the case here .
; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...from the indoctrination of “become an automate.
Don’t think.
Do repetitive stuff until all imagination is dead.
Obey and don’t question your godlike know-everything teachers.”.School in Germany stems directly from Bismarck’s idea, of creating something like an army training camp, but for children.
To follow the then-ideal of obeying, being quiet and sitting still.Of course it all stands and falls with if you actually offer them something better.
Including the ability to make friends and have social training in the same age.
I guess if a group of parents has a group of around 20+ children, and wants to teach modern concepts, like giving every part of the brain and of life equal time, teaching them independent free thought and how to have a secure sense of reality, then this is a really great thing.But somehow I doubt that this is the case here.
;)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936712</id>
	<title>Religion, not schooling</title>
	<author>mpoulton</author>
	<datestamp>1264704720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>From TFA, it appears that the actual basis for asylum here is freedom of religion, not freedom to home-school.  The parents pulled their children from public school because they are fundamentalist Christians and objected to elements of the public school's curriculum, including sex education and morality lessons drawn from other religions.  The German government apparently does not recognize a parent's right to "protect" children from opposing religious views through home-schooling, and intended to compel attendance.  The US recognizes this as an aspect of free exercise of religion, which can form the basis for an asylum petition.  Thus, they are actually obtaining asylum on religious persecution grounds.  Whether these facts actually establish a valid instance of religious persecution or not is perhaps an important question; just because something is protected by the free exercise clause of the 1st amendment to the US Constitution does not mean it is necessarily a fundamental human right which should give rise to an asylum claim.  Germany is not subject the the US Constitution.</htmltext>
<tokenext>From TFA , it appears that the actual basis for asylum here is freedom of religion , not freedom to home-school .
The parents pulled their children from public school because they are fundamentalist Christians and objected to elements of the public school 's curriculum , including sex education and morality lessons drawn from other religions .
The German government apparently does not recognize a parent 's right to " protect " children from opposing religious views through home-schooling , and intended to compel attendance .
The US recognizes this as an aspect of free exercise of religion , which can form the basis for an asylum petition .
Thus , they are actually obtaining asylum on religious persecution grounds .
Whether these facts actually establish a valid instance of religious persecution or not is perhaps an important question ; just because something is protected by the free exercise clause of the 1st amendment to the US Constitution does not mean it is necessarily a fundamental human right which should give rise to an asylum claim .
Germany is not subject the the US Constitution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From TFA, it appears that the actual basis for asylum here is freedom of religion, not freedom to home-school.
The parents pulled their children from public school because they are fundamentalist Christians and objected to elements of the public school's curriculum, including sex education and morality lessons drawn from other religions.
The German government apparently does not recognize a parent's right to "protect" children from opposing religious views through home-schooling, and intended to compel attendance.
The US recognizes this as an aspect of free exercise of religion, which can form the basis for an asylum petition.
Thus, they are actually obtaining asylum on religious persecution grounds.
Whether these facts actually establish a valid instance of religious persecution or not is perhaps an important question; just because something is protected by the free exercise clause of the 1st amendment to the US Constitution does not mean it is necessarily a fundamental human right which should give rise to an asylum claim.
Germany is not subject the the US Constitution.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936736</id>
	<title>Religious Nutjobs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264704780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't have a problem with people home-schooling to improve the quality of education.  I myself was home-schooled for several years.</p><p>I do, however, have a major issue with people pulling their children out of public school so they can be home-schooled according to religious criteria.  I recognize this is a slippery slope, but based on what I've read so far I support the German government.</p><p>Religious freedom allows you to worship, but it does not in my mind give one free license to program children with it.  Children are not property.  Religious conflict with a secular school is not a valid reason for home-schooling.</p><p>Further, home schooled children should be subject to, at the very least, the same aptitude tests and subject material criteria as public school children.  (Yes, I know most public school criteria and tests are a joke, but it's at least a starting point.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't have a problem with people home-schooling to improve the quality of education .
I myself was home-schooled for several years.I do , however , have a major issue with people pulling their children out of public school so they can be home-schooled according to religious criteria .
I recognize this is a slippery slope , but based on what I 've read so far I support the German government.Religious freedom allows you to worship , but it does not in my mind give one free license to program children with it .
Children are not property .
Religious conflict with a secular school is not a valid reason for home-schooling.Further , home schooled children should be subject to , at the very least , the same aptitude tests and subject material criteria as public school children .
( Yes , I know most public school criteria and tests are a joke , but it 's at least a starting point .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't have a problem with people home-schooling to improve the quality of education.
I myself was home-schooled for several years.I do, however, have a major issue with people pulling their children out of public school so they can be home-schooled according to religious criteria.
I recognize this is a slippery slope, but based on what I've read so far I support the German government.Religious freedom allows you to worship, but it does not in my mind give one free license to program children with it.
Children are not property.
Religious conflict with a secular school is not a valid reason for home-schooling.Further, home schooled children should be subject to, at the very least, the same aptitude tests and subject material criteria as public school children.
(Yes, I know most public school criteria and tests are a joke, but it's at least a starting point.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940002</id>
	<title>Re:Homeschooling =/= fundamentalist schooling</title>
	<author>mjs0</author>
	<datestamp>1264670040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thank you for saying that, it really is a shame it needed to be said.</p><p>Our children are now eight and nine, they have been homeschooled since kindergarten. My wife and I are both atheists and our reason for homeschooling is definitely not religious, in fact we have gone out of our way to teach comparative religion so the kids will understand all the cultural influences of, and references to, the major religions.
</p><p>Initially we had two main reasons for homeschooling:</p><ol>
<li>I am originally from the UK and we still spend as much as 3 months a year in the UK. Having to deal with pulling the kids in and out of school would have been disruptive for them and made it difficult to maintain continuity in their lessons.</li><li>We do not believe in the lowest common denominator theory where classes move at the pace of the slower students. Where I grew up the school's classes were banded by ability within each subject so you could easily be band 1 for English but band 3 or 4 for Maths. My wife grew up without banding and personally experienced the issues with always being ahead of the class.</li></ol><p>We priced private school options and decided that on balance we would rather downsize and reduce our income (I went from full time employee to just doing part time consulting work and my wife closed her part time hobby business and found a full-time job with health benefits) in order for one of us to stay home and take care of the education ourselves.</p><p>On the subject of socialization, we have observed our kids 'socializing', we deliberately chose a house in an area with a lot of families with school age children and they play together outside after school almost every evening and at weekends without any issues.
In order to give them more interaction with other kids in a structured environment they played in a soccer league for several seasons (5-8), we ended up coaching a team but that is another story. My observations in that environment were that the public school kids did not have better socialization skills, if anything the homeschoolers on the teams stood out as leaders and mediators. In fact I would go as far as to say that the homeschoolers in general had good social skills, being cooperative and enthusiastic team players, going out of their way to both motivate and involve other kids and speaking up loudly and clearly, whereas the majority of the public school kids had what could only be called anti-social skills often being rebellious, moody, shy and exhibiting poor listening skills.</p><p>As I type this my 3rd/4th graders are hand coding web pages for their sites on our home web server. We use these websites for them to be creative and publish information they are interested in, mostly animal pictures and art for our daughter but Lego and video games for our son. In addition each of their home pages have a link to their school work where they publish their book reports, essays and scanned images of their art work. I just fielded a question from my eight year old on how to use CSS to give the first element in a list a different format to the rest of the list! They both keep bugging me to start teaching them how to make their pages more dynamic and include input fields to gather data.</p><p>On the flip side...there are very few good resources for secular homeschoolers. Most of the support groups and a lot of the available curriculums are very religious and of no use to us. The major national home school groups typically cater to the majority religiously focused home school families and even include prayer and other more distasteful activities at their meetings and conferences.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thank you for saying that , it really is a shame it needed to be said.Our children are now eight and nine , they have been homeschooled since kindergarten .
My wife and I are both atheists and our reason for homeschooling is definitely not religious , in fact we have gone out of our way to teach comparative religion so the kids will understand all the cultural influences of , and references to , the major religions .
Initially we had two main reasons for homeschooling : I am originally from the UK and we still spend as much as 3 months a year in the UK .
Having to deal with pulling the kids in and out of school would have been disruptive for them and made it difficult to maintain continuity in their lessons.We do not believe in the lowest common denominator theory where classes move at the pace of the slower students .
Where I grew up the school 's classes were banded by ability within each subject so you could easily be band 1 for English but band 3 or 4 for Maths .
My wife grew up without banding and personally experienced the issues with always being ahead of the class.We priced private school options and decided that on balance we would rather downsize and reduce our income ( I went from full time employee to just doing part time consulting work and my wife closed her part time hobby business and found a full-time job with health benefits ) in order for one of us to stay home and take care of the education ourselves.On the subject of socialization , we have observed our kids 'socializing ' , we deliberately chose a house in an area with a lot of families with school age children and they play together outside after school almost every evening and at weekends without any issues .
In order to give them more interaction with other kids in a structured environment they played in a soccer league for several seasons ( 5-8 ) , we ended up coaching a team but that is another story .
My observations in that environment were that the public school kids did not have better socialization skills , if anything the homeschoolers on the teams stood out as leaders and mediators .
In fact I would go as far as to say that the homeschoolers in general had good social skills , being cooperative and enthusiastic team players , going out of their way to both motivate and involve other kids and speaking up loudly and clearly , whereas the majority of the public school kids had what could only be called anti-social skills often being rebellious , moody , shy and exhibiting poor listening skills.As I type this my 3rd/4th graders are hand coding web pages for their sites on our home web server .
We use these websites for them to be creative and publish information they are interested in , mostly animal pictures and art for our daughter but Lego and video games for our son .
In addition each of their home pages have a link to their school work where they publish their book reports , essays and scanned images of their art work .
I just fielded a question from my eight year old on how to use CSS to give the first element in a list a different format to the rest of the list !
They both keep bugging me to start teaching them how to make their pages more dynamic and include input fields to gather data.On the flip side...there are very few good resources for secular homeschoolers .
Most of the support groups and a lot of the available curriculums are very religious and of no use to us .
The major national home school groups typically cater to the majority religiously focused home school families and even include prayer and other more distasteful activities at their meetings and conferences .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thank you for saying that, it really is a shame it needed to be said.Our children are now eight and nine, they have been homeschooled since kindergarten.
My wife and I are both atheists and our reason for homeschooling is definitely not religious, in fact we have gone out of our way to teach comparative religion so the kids will understand all the cultural influences of, and references to, the major religions.
Initially we had two main reasons for homeschooling:
I am originally from the UK and we still spend as much as 3 months a year in the UK.
Having to deal with pulling the kids in and out of school would have been disruptive for them and made it difficult to maintain continuity in their lessons.We do not believe in the lowest common denominator theory where classes move at the pace of the slower students.
Where I grew up the school's classes were banded by ability within each subject so you could easily be band 1 for English but band 3 or 4 for Maths.
My wife grew up without banding and personally experienced the issues with always being ahead of the class.We priced private school options and decided that on balance we would rather downsize and reduce our income (I went from full time employee to just doing part time consulting work and my wife closed her part time hobby business and found a full-time job with health benefits) in order for one of us to stay home and take care of the education ourselves.On the subject of socialization, we have observed our kids 'socializing', we deliberately chose a house in an area with a lot of families with school age children and they play together outside after school almost every evening and at weekends without any issues.
In order to give them more interaction with other kids in a structured environment they played in a soccer league for several seasons (5-8), we ended up coaching a team but that is another story.
My observations in that environment were that the public school kids did not have better socialization skills, if anything the homeschoolers on the teams stood out as leaders and mediators.
In fact I would go as far as to say that the homeschoolers in general had good social skills, being cooperative and enthusiastic team players, going out of their way to both motivate and involve other kids and speaking up loudly and clearly, whereas the majority of the public school kids had what could only be called anti-social skills often being rebellious, moody, shy and exhibiting poor listening skills.As I type this my 3rd/4th graders are hand coding web pages for their sites on our home web server.
We use these websites for them to be creative and publish information they are interested in, mostly animal pictures and art for our daughter but Lego and video games for our son.
In addition each of their home pages have a link to their school work where they publish their book reports, essays and scanned images of their art work.
I just fielded a question from my eight year old on how to use CSS to give the first element in a list a different format to the rest of the list!
They both keep bugging me to start teaching them how to make their pages more dynamic and include input fields to gather data.On the flip side...there are very few good resources for secular homeschoolers.
Most of the support groups and a lot of the available curriculums are very religious and of no use to us.
The major national home school groups typically cater to the majority religiously focused home school families and even include prayer and other more distasteful activities at their meetings and conferences.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936876</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940496</id>
	<title>Re:I do it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264671420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Right. Being uncomfortable in the dentist office is a sure sign of maladjustment....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Right .
Being uncomfortable in the dentist office is a sure sign of maladjustment... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Right.
Being uncomfortable in the dentist office is a sure sign of maladjustment....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938844</id>
	<title>Re:Hey Germany</title>
	<author>pudge</author>
	<datestamp>1264709760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Germany<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... thought that a child has the right to equal chances with every other child in Germany.</p></div><p>The problem is that the gov't incorrectly believes it has the right to determine what that "equal chance" is.  Indeed, in the U.S., homeschooled kids generally have a BETTER chance than public schooled kids, on all objective measurements.  But even if they didn't, the gov't has no right to take the right to make that choice away from the parents.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>And that means that it also has the right to an education equivalent to the education all the other children get, and this right is not to be withhold, not even by the child's parents.</p></div><p>This rests on the faulty claim that gov't -- rather than the parents -- have the best idea of what a good education <b>is</b>.  I have a much better understanding than the government of what the best education for my children is, and they have no right to subject me or my children to any educational requirements, even if that only means passing a silly test.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Germany ... thought that a child has the right to equal chances with every other child in Germany.The problem is that the gov't incorrectly believes it has the right to determine what that " equal chance " is .
Indeed , in the U.S. , homeschooled kids generally have a BETTER chance than public schooled kids , on all objective measurements .
But even if they did n't , the gov't has no right to take the right to make that choice away from the parents.And that means that it also has the right to an education equivalent to the education all the other children get , and this right is not to be withhold , not even by the child 's parents.This rests on the faulty claim that gov't -- rather than the parents -- have the best idea of what a good education is .
I have a much better understanding than the government of what the best education for my children is , and they have no right to subject me or my children to any educational requirements , even if that only means passing a silly test .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Germany ... thought that a child has the right to equal chances with every other child in Germany.The problem is that the gov't incorrectly believes it has the right to determine what that "equal chance" is.
Indeed, in the U.S., homeschooled kids generally have a BETTER chance than public schooled kids, on all objective measurements.
But even if they didn't, the gov't has no right to take the right to make that choice away from the parents.And that means that it also has the right to an education equivalent to the education all the other children get, and this right is not to be withhold, not even by the child's parents.This rests on the faulty claim that gov't -- rather than the parents -- have the best idea of what a good education is.
I have a much better understanding than the government of what the best education for my children is, and they have no right to subject me or my children to any educational requirements, even if that only means passing a silly test.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30945010</id>
	<title>Re:Religion, not schooling</title>
	<author>sincewhen</author>
	<datestamp>1264692780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>But where does it say that people should be free to brainwash their children?<br>
Should we be giving religion a free pass here?<br>
It is a difficult question, as practising your religion probably means sharing it with others, and passing it on to your children. However, as I have seen in some atheist material, no child is born a muslim or a christian or a hindu. And surely they should be free to choose their religion when they are mature enough to make that decision. <br>
So if we "protect" children from alcohol, tobacco, and sex until they are adults, why don't we protect them from religion until then too?</htmltext>
<tokenext>But where does it say that people should be free to brainwash their children ?
Should we be giving religion a free pass here ?
It is a difficult question , as practising your religion probably means sharing it with others , and passing it on to your children .
However , as I have seen in some atheist material , no child is born a muslim or a christian or a hindu .
And surely they should be free to choose their religion when they are mature enough to make that decision .
So if we " protect " children from alcohol , tobacco , and sex until they are adults , why do n't we protect them from religion until then too ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But where does it say that people should be free to brainwash their children?
Should we be giving religion a free pass here?
It is a difficult question, as practising your religion probably means sharing it with others, and passing it on to your children.
However, as I have seen in some atheist material, no child is born a muslim or a christian or a hindu.
And surely they should be free to choose their religion when they are mature enough to make that decision.
So if we "protect" children from alcohol, tobacco, and sex until they are adults, why don't we protect them from religion until then too?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937548</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937620</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>Tanuki64</author>
	<datestamp>1264707000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I totally disagree. It's the basic right to raise your children with your own views and values</p></div><p>&lt;sarcasm&gt;You are sooo right. I feel so enraged to be denied to teach my children the basic necessary hatred against Americans. How could they ever learn that the highest achievement a person can have is to eradicate Americans in concentration camps? Here is no higher value that that.&lt;/sarcasm&gt;</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I totally disagree .
It 's the basic right to raise your children with your own views and valuesYou are sooo right .
I feel so enraged to be denied to teach my children the basic necessary hatred against Americans .
How could they ever learn that the highest achievement a person can have is to eradicate Americans in concentration camps ?
Here is no higher value that that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I totally disagree.
It's the basic right to raise your children with your own views and valuesYou are sooo right.
I feel so enraged to be denied to teach my children the basic necessary hatred against Americans.
How could they ever learn that the highest achievement a person can have is to eradicate Americans in concentration camps?
Here is no higher value that that.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940822</id>
	<title>Re:No story here</title>
	<author>bar-agent</author>
	<datestamp>1264672260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Children aren't property.</i></p><p>No, but they certainly aren't free, or fit to be free. Not until they can take care of themselves in the big, bad world. And it's best to let the parents decide when their kids can do that and what tools their kids should have in their metaphorical toolbox (beyond a certain minimum set over which the parents should have no say).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Children are n't property.No , but they certainly are n't free , or fit to be free .
Not until they can take care of themselves in the big , bad world .
And it 's best to let the parents decide when their kids can do that and what tools their kids should have in their metaphorical toolbox ( beyond a certain minimum set over which the parents should have no say ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Children aren't property.No, but they certainly aren't free, or fit to be free.
Not until they can take care of themselves in the big, bad world.
And it's best to let the parents decide when their kids can do that and what tools their kids should have in their metaphorical toolbox (beyond a certain minimum set over which the parents should have no say).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939798</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937274</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>Sique</author>
	<datestamp>1264706160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But that's not the issue at hand. You are perfectly allowed in Germany to send your children to a private school or even home school them. You just have to warrant that they get something the law recognizes as "education", and this is defined in Germany as "being educated by an examined teacher". The family Romeike wasn't able to name a teacher for their children who got the required exams, and thus the verdict was that they couldn't prove they educate their children at all, which is criminal negligence.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But that 's not the issue at hand .
You are perfectly allowed in Germany to send your children to a private school or even home school them .
You just have to warrant that they get something the law recognizes as " education " , and this is defined in Germany as " being educated by an examined teacher " .
The family Romeike was n't able to name a teacher for their children who got the required exams , and thus the verdict was that they could n't prove they educate their children at all , which is criminal negligence .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But that's not the issue at hand.
You are perfectly allowed in Germany to send your children to a private school or even home school them.
You just have to warrant that they get something the law recognizes as "education", and this is defined in Germany as "being educated by an examined teacher".
The family Romeike wasn't able to name a teacher for their children who got the required exams, and thus the verdict was that they couldn't prove they educate their children at all, which is criminal negligence.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937352</id>
	<title>Check //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher\_Paolini</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264706400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher\_Paolini" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher\_Paolini</a> [wikipedia.org]<br>Home schooled, graduated HS at 15, 3 published books, 20 million sold. I know close to a half dozen like him thru fencing (foil &amp; epee) - usually 1 or 2 years ahead of peers. Makes you wonder just how screwed up our school systems really are.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher \ _Paolini [ wikipedia.org ] Home schooled , graduated HS at 15 , 3 published books , 20 million sold .
I know close to a half dozen like him thru fencing ( foil &amp; epee ) - usually 1 or 2 years ahead of peers .
Makes you wonder just how screwed up our school systems really are .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher\_Paolini [wikipedia.org]Home schooled, graduated HS at 15, 3 published books, 20 million sold.
I know close to a half dozen like him thru fencing (foil &amp; epee) - usually 1 or 2 years ahead of peers.
Makes you wonder just how screwed up our school systems really are.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30943622</id>
	<title>homeschooled and highly sensitive</title>
	<author>solsang</author>
	<datestamp>1264683000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>After my first 3 years in state school i was homeschooled for 3 years, and learned much faster and more than my former classmates, when i went back to school i had become used to the quiet and effective learning, and was totally shocked and outcast in a rough, tough, loud and unnatural world with awful food and daily beatings.

  Although getting brilliant exams i had to quit university and society due to the traumatic years in the state school, later reading the "sudbury valley school experience" i realized how absolutely unnessesary the forced schooling system is and the "highly sensitive person" theory i now support all kinds of homeschooling or private schooling with the knowledge of the vast differences between each child and how children can seem perfectly happy while being forced into submission, physical and mental torture</htmltext>
<tokenext>After my first 3 years in state school i was homeschooled for 3 years , and learned much faster and more than my former classmates , when i went back to school i had become used to the quiet and effective learning , and was totally shocked and outcast in a rough , tough , loud and unnatural world with awful food and daily beatings .
Although getting brilliant exams i had to quit university and society due to the traumatic years in the state school , later reading the " sudbury valley school experience " i realized how absolutely unnessesary the forced schooling system is and the " highly sensitive person " theory i now support all kinds of homeschooling or private schooling with the knowledge of the vast differences between each child and how children can seem perfectly happy while being forced into submission , physical and mental torture</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After my first 3 years in state school i was homeschooled for 3 years, and learned much faster and more than my former classmates, when i went back to school i had become used to the quiet and effective learning, and was totally shocked and outcast in a rough, tough, loud and unnatural world with awful food and daily beatings.
Although getting brilliant exams i had to quit university and society due to the traumatic years in the state school, later reading the "sudbury valley school experience" i realized how absolutely unnessesary the forced schooling system is and the "highly sensitive person" theory i now support all kinds of homeschooling or private schooling with the knowledge of the vast differences between each child and how children can seem perfectly happy while being forced into submission, physical and mental torture</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938288</id>
	<title>Re:I do it</title>
	<author>gnapster</author>
	<datestamp>1264708440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I'd like to applaud you for presenting a well written, middle-of-the-road argument in favor of homeschooling. It's one of those things where I fear what I hear, because the only people making noise are whack jobs.</p></div><p>I appreciated the GP's post, too, because I was homeschooled K-12 in Florida, where (if I remember correctly) the litmus test for homeschooled kids' progression from year to year is that each one "demonstrates a level of educational progress commensurate with his or her ability."  (Shooting from the hip, here; it has been eight years.)  This is usually assessed by standardized tests or interviews with certified teachers.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>How do you address the social aspects of school? A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people, larger groups, and authority respectfully and responsibly. Its unfortunate, but part of being a productive adult is working with difficult strangers or at least working around them.</p></div><p>In my family's case, we banded together in an incorporated support group.  We started with 7 families and grew to 120 by the time I left for college.  It is my understanding that the group is down to 50 families now, but that is because more support groups have started up in the same county.  These groups provide a framework for organized sports and field trips, dissemination of information about curriculum, and opportunities for homeschool parents who had specific skills in some area (art, woodworking, acting) to provide lessons for other parents' children.  We spent lots of time with other kids: our immediate peers in the same grade, yes, but also kids of a variety of ages.  We got along well with one another.  Furthermore, we had occasion to interact with other adults, and not just in a teacher/authoritarian role.

</p><p>
We also spent plenty of time interacting with people in the community.  We'd go on shopping trips with Mom and learn about commerce.  We spent time volunteering at the public library, nursing homes and other such places.  We were involved in community theater and clubs like 4-H, so we did have interaction with public and private schooled children, along with kids from outside our own city.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Where was the line for you between, "I'll do this myself" and "Extend/correct/expound/refine what they learned at school"? Of the teachers I know, the best students weren't always the smartest but they were the ones whose parents took an active interest in what they were learning and who added on to that at home. Even the ultra-religious, "Harry Potter is a sin", parents got some respect for actually being aware of what their kids were being exposed to.</p></div><p>
For my parents, the main issue was the social environment of public schools.  Peer pressure, drugs, adolescent silliness... all that crap.  And this is, to be honest, the best thing homeschooling has going for it.  From what I see, kids raised at home are much less rebellious towards their parents during adolescence.  I don't doubt that I would have gotten a sufficient knowledge education at my local elementary, middle, and high schools.  It is the social education that would have been inferior.  It is ironic that 'socialization' is usually the first concern that people have for homeschooled students, but it is the one thing that homeschooling may actually do better, on the whole, than public schools.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Your thoughts? I know you don't speak for the entire homeschool community, but might as well draw some of your good ideas off while we've got someone who's done it.</p></div><p>inviolet may not be speaking for all homeschoolers, but I reckon they speak for the majority.  The last statement, "I can't believe I used to think homeschooling was a scarey responsibility; today I find it equally scarey to trust my sons' minds to a public edifice", is probably typical of those who were pioneering homeschool parents and are now veterans of the same.  Most of them started because they perceived shortcomings in the status quo.  Coming out the other side, I think that there are few who have regrets.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd like to applaud you for presenting a well written , middle-of-the-road argument in favor of homeschooling .
It 's one of those things where I fear what I hear , because the only people making noise are whack jobs.I appreciated the GP 's post , too , because I was homeschooled K-12 in Florida , where ( if I remember correctly ) the litmus test for homeschooled kids ' progression from year to year is that each one " demonstrates a level of educational progress commensurate with his or her ability .
" ( Shooting from the hip , here ; it has been eight years .
) This is usually assessed by standardized tests or interviews with certified teachers.How do you address the social aspects of school ?
A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people , larger groups , and authority respectfully and responsibly .
Its unfortunate , but part of being a productive adult is working with difficult strangers or at least working around them.In my family 's case , we banded together in an incorporated support group .
We started with 7 families and grew to 120 by the time I left for college .
It is my understanding that the group is down to 50 families now , but that is because more support groups have started up in the same county .
These groups provide a framework for organized sports and field trips , dissemination of information about curriculum , and opportunities for homeschool parents who had specific skills in some area ( art , woodworking , acting ) to provide lessons for other parents ' children .
We spent lots of time with other kids : our immediate peers in the same grade , yes , but also kids of a variety of ages .
We got along well with one another .
Furthermore , we had occasion to interact with other adults , and not just in a teacher/authoritarian role .
We also spent plenty of time interacting with people in the community .
We 'd go on shopping trips with Mom and learn about commerce .
We spent time volunteering at the public library , nursing homes and other such places .
We were involved in community theater and clubs like 4-H , so we did have interaction with public and private schooled children , along with kids from outside our own city.Where was the line for you between , " I 'll do this myself " and " Extend/correct/expound/refine what they learned at school " ?
Of the teachers I know , the best students were n't always the smartest but they were the ones whose parents took an active interest in what they were learning and who added on to that at home .
Even the ultra-religious , " Harry Potter is a sin " , parents got some respect for actually being aware of what their kids were being exposed to .
For my parents , the main issue was the social environment of public schools .
Peer pressure , drugs , adolescent silliness... all that crap .
And this is , to be honest , the best thing homeschooling has going for it .
From what I see , kids raised at home are much less rebellious towards their parents during adolescence .
I do n't doubt that I would have gotten a sufficient knowledge education at my local elementary , middle , and high schools .
It is the social education that would have been inferior .
It is ironic that 'socialization ' is usually the first concern that people have for homeschooled students , but it is the one thing that homeschooling may actually do better , on the whole , than public schools.Your thoughts ?
I know you do n't speak for the entire homeschool community , but might as well draw some of your good ideas off while we 've got someone who 's done it.inviolet may not be speaking for all homeschoolers , but I reckon they speak for the majority .
The last statement , " I ca n't believe I used to think homeschooling was a scarey responsibility ; today I find it equally scarey to trust my sons ' minds to a public edifice " , is probably typical of those who were pioneering homeschool parents and are now veterans of the same .
Most of them started because they perceived shortcomings in the status quo .
Coming out the other side , I think that there are few who have regrets .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd like to applaud you for presenting a well written, middle-of-the-road argument in favor of homeschooling.
It's one of those things where I fear what I hear, because the only people making noise are whack jobs.I appreciated the GP's post, too, because I was homeschooled K-12 in Florida, where (if I remember correctly) the litmus test for homeschooled kids' progression from year to year is that each one "demonstrates a level of educational progress commensurate with his or her ability.
"  (Shooting from the hip, here; it has been eight years.
)  This is usually assessed by standardized tests or interviews with certified teachers.How do you address the social aspects of school?
A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people, larger groups, and authority respectfully and responsibly.
Its unfortunate, but part of being a productive adult is working with difficult strangers or at least working around them.In my family's case, we banded together in an incorporated support group.
We started with 7 families and grew to 120 by the time I left for college.
It is my understanding that the group is down to 50 families now, but that is because more support groups have started up in the same county.
These groups provide a framework for organized sports and field trips, dissemination of information about curriculum, and opportunities for homeschool parents who had specific skills in some area (art, woodworking, acting) to provide lessons for other parents' children.
We spent lots of time with other kids: our immediate peers in the same grade, yes, but also kids of a variety of ages.
We got along well with one another.
Furthermore, we had occasion to interact with other adults, and not just in a teacher/authoritarian role.
We also spent plenty of time interacting with people in the community.
We'd go on shopping trips with Mom and learn about commerce.
We spent time volunteering at the public library, nursing homes and other such places.
We were involved in community theater and clubs like 4-H, so we did have interaction with public and private schooled children, along with kids from outside our own city.Where was the line for you between, "I'll do this myself" and "Extend/correct/expound/refine what they learned at school"?
Of the teachers I know, the best students weren't always the smartest but they were the ones whose parents took an active interest in what they were learning and who added on to that at home.
Even the ultra-religious, "Harry Potter is a sin", parents got some respect for actually being aware of what their kids were being exposed to.
For my parents, the main issue was the social environment of public schools.
Peer pressure, drugs, adolescent silliness... all that crap.
And this is, to be honest, the best thing homeschooling has going for it.
From what I see, kids raised at home are much less rebellious towards their parents during adolescence.
I don't doubt that I would have gotten a sufficient knowledge education at my local elementary, middle, and high schools.
It is the social education that would have been inferior.
It is ironic that 'socialization' is usually the first concern that people have for homeschooled students, but it is the one thing that homeschooling may actually do better, on the whole, than public schools.Your thoughts?
I know you don't speak for the entire homeschool community, but might as well draw some of your good ideas off while we've got someone who's done it.inviolet may not be speaking for all homeschoolers, but I reckon they speak for the majority.
The last statement, "I can't believe I used to think homeschooling was a scarey responsibility; today I find it equally scarey to trust my sons' minds to a public edifice", is probably typical of those who were pioneering homeschool parents and are now veterans of the same.
Most of them started because they perceived shortcomings in the status quo.
Coming out the other side, I think that there are few who have regrets.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944334</id>
	<title>Re:No story here</title>
	<author>telomerewhythere</author>
	<datestamp>1264687620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Are you saying that pretty much all people since there have been humans have had schizophrenia?
</p><p>
And only in the last couple hundred years the number with schizophrenia have gone down noticeably, and in the last 40 years there was a huge move in human health/dna in the direction away from schizophrenia?
</p><p>
Please do expound.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are you saying that pretty much all people since there have been humans have had schizophrenia ?
And only in the last couple hundred years the number with schizophrenia have gone down noticeably , and in the last 40 years there was a huge move in human health/dna in the direction away from schizophrenia ?
Please do expound .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Are you saying that pretty much all people since there have been humans have had schizophrenia?
And only in the last couple hundred years the number with schizophrenia have gone down noticeably, and in the last 40 years there was a huge move in human health/dna in the direction away from schizophrenia?
Please do expound.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940388</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937306</id>
	<title>Re:So I presume we will immediately grant asylum..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264706220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I think we should: all afghani girls who for years could not go to school (did we give asylum to all that requested?), all the africans who cannot go to school because of social problems (did we give asylum to all that requested?), etc.</p></div></blockquote><p>How many requested asylum?</p><blockquote><div><p>Clearly shows how racist and politically biased the courts are: a group of (likely) right wing white people always get precedence over some poor 3rd world, brown-skinned, poor fellow...</p></div></blockquote><p>Only if you assume that "the courts" are a monolithic entity.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think we should : all afghani girls who for years could not go to school ( did we give asylum to all that requested ?
) , all the africans who can not go to school because of social problems ( did we give asylum to all that requested ?
) , etc.How many requested asylum ? Clearly shows how racist and politically biased the courts are : a group of ( likely ) right wing white people always get precedence over some poor 3rd world , brown-skinned , poor fellow...Only if you assume that " the courts " are a monolithic entity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think we should: all afghani girls who for years could not go to school (did we give asylum to all that requested?
), all the africans who cannot go to school because of social problems (did we give asylum to all that requested?
), etc.How many requested asylum?Clearly shows how racist and politically biased the courts are: a group of (likely) right wing white people always get precedence over some poor 3rd world, brown-skinned, poor fellow...Only if you assume that "the courts" are a monolithic entity.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936524</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939616</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>Uranium-238</author>
	<datestamp>1264711920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And you're ok with that system are you? Since when did it become the government's right to tell you if you know what's best for your own children? Given the education system in the UK if/when I have children I would at the least discuss it with my wife, since I believe I could do a just as good a job if not better one of educating them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>And you 're ok with that system are you ?
Since when did it become the government 's right to tell you if you know what 's best for your own children ?
Given the education system in the UK if/when I have children I would at the least discuss it with my wife , since I believe I could do a just as good a job if not better one of educating them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And you're ok with that system are you?
Since when did it become the government's right to tell you if you know what's best for your own children?
Given the education system in the UK if/when I have children I would at the least discuss it with my wife, since I believe I could do a just as good a job if not better one of educating them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936958</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937976</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>Hatta</author>
	<datestamp>1264707780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Being forced into interaction with other children that pick on you is more likely to lead to potential social awkwardness than being able to choose the extracurriculars (and thus the peer groups) you like.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Being forced into interaction with other children that pick on you is more likely to lead to potential social awkwardness than being able to choose the extracurriculars ( and thus the peer groups ) you like .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Being forced into interaction with other children that pick on you is more likely to lead to potential social awkwardness than being able to choose the extracurriculars (and thus the peer groups) you like.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944002</id>
	<title>Re:Religion, not schooling</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264685160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So your saying America would do the same for a fundamentalist Islamic family?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So your saying America would do the same for a fundamentalist Islamic family ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So your saying America would do the same for a fundamentalist Islamic family?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936712</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936490</id>
	<title>Home schooling vs. school duty</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264704060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Germany has school duty for all children older than six years up to 9 to 12 years in school (depends on the actual state). And "duty" means that a state examined teacher is required for schooling. You want home schooling? Then get the exam, and you are perfectly fine schooling your children at home.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Germany has school duty for all children older than six years up to 9 to 12 years in school ( depends on the actual state ) .
And " duty " means that a state examined teacher is required for schooling .
You want home schooling ?
Then get the exam , and you are perfectly fine schooling your children at home .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Germany has school duty for all children older than six years up to 9 to 12 years in school (depends on the actual state).
And "duty" means that a state examined teacher is required for schooling.
You want home schooling?
Then get the exam, and you are perfectly fine schooling your children at home.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940274</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264670760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Licensing converts a right into a privilege. A privilege is no longer a right. And yes, you'll find that principle abrogated all across the laws and practices of our own nation. The right to travel by common conveyance, for example, is no longer treated as a right but as a privilege.</p><p>Jurisprudence dictates that blanket licensing should never be used to place limitations on a right; rather, other rights should be enforced against their exercise. For example, you don't need a license to drink, do you? No, even though getting drunk can certainly endanger other people. Instead we enforce the rights of those other people against you, both through protection (if possible) during the event and punishment after the fact. If you habitually violate the rights of others while drunk, we enforce their rights against you by enjoining you from drinking in the future.</p><p>This is how driving should be administered as well. No one should need a license to drive (age is a tangential issue, and age restrictions would be reasonable). Just as any adult is considered ultimately capable of avoiding drinking beyond their limit (even if they do not always do so), any adult is obviously capable of avoiding driving if they are unfit for it for any reason. Licensure should <i>follow</i> moving violations, rather than precede them. If you commit a moving violation, <i>then</i> we should require a license plate on your car and a license in your wallet. Otherwise we are simply enacting a massive tracking system for potential mis-use by the state, a practice that Bruce Scheier refers to rather eloquently as "bad civic hygiene".</p><p>If you think that we'd have significantly more accidents or injuries in a post-violation licensing paradigm, you place way too much faith in the efficacy of the current system.</p><p>Regarding the topic in the OP, parents should not be licensed to teach their own children, nor licensed to make educational or religious indoctrination decisions for them. Instead, anyone who feels that a child is being mistreated by their parents - in any way - should simply have to make that case. Personally, I consider it hypothetically acceptable for a group of people to decide that reading and mathematics are detrimental to their children's happiness, and to actively intervene to keep their children from accidentally learning either of those skills. I don't share that believe myself, but can I truly claim that they are objectively <i>mis</i>treating their children by taking this approach? Really? Can I claim that reading and math are necessary for... <i>happiness</i>? In my mind that is absurd - I would more likely argue against such a claim, than for it. Imagine a society like the Amish, for example, but with no care for reading scripture. Sounds like a perfectly happy hypothetical society to me.</p><p>So it is always context-sensitive. This is why licensure is wrong - licensure is <i>never</i> context-sensitive. It is the lazy state's way of imposing its will on everyone, and forcing us to squeak if we want to be different. Rather, the state should be forced to squeak when it desires our leave to intervene.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Licensing converts a right into a privilege .
A privilege is no longer a right .
And yes , you 'll find that principle abrogated all across the laws and practices of our own nation .
The right to travel by common conveyance , for example , is no longer treated as a right but as a privilege.Jurisprudence dictates that blanket licensing should never be used to place limitations on a right ; rather , other rights should be enforced against their exercise .
For example , you do n't need a license to drink , do you ?
No , even though getting drunk can certainly endanger other people .
Instead we enforce the rights of those other people against you , both through protection ( if possible ) during the event and punishment after the fact .
If you habitually violate the rights of others while drunk , we enforce their rights against you by enjoining you from drinking in the future.This is how driving should be administered as well .
No one should need a license to drive ( age is a tangential issue , and age restrictions would be reasonable ) .
Just as any adult is considered ultimately capable of avoiding drinking beyond their limit ( even if they do not always do so ) , any adult is obviously capable of avoiding driving if they are unfit for it for any reason .
Licensure should follow moving violations , rather than precede them .
If you commit a moving violation , then we should require a license plate on your car and a license in your wallet .
Otherwise we are simply enacting a massive tracking system for potential mis-use by the state , a practice that Bruce Scheier refers to rather eloquently as " bad civic hygiene " .If you think that we 'd have significantly more accidents or injuries in a post-violation licensing paradigm , you place way too much faith in the efficacy of the current system.Regarding the topic in the OP , parents should not be licensed to teach their own children , nor licensed to make educational or religious indoctrination decisions for them .
Instead , anyone who feels that a child is being mistreated by their parents - in any way - should simply have to make that case .
Personally , I consider it hypothetically acceptable for a group of people to decide that reading and mathematics are detrimental to their children 's happiness , and to actively intervene to keep their children from accidentally learning either of those skills .
I do n't share that believe myself , but can I truly claim that they are objectively mistreating their children by taking this approach ?
Really ? Can I claim that reading and math are necessary for... happiness ? In my mind that is absurd - I would more likely argue against such a claim , than for it .
Imagine a society like the Amish , for example , but with no care for reading scripture .
Sounds like a perfectly happy hypothetical society to me.So it is always context-sensitive .
This is why licensure is wrong - licensure is never context-sensitive .
It is the lazy state 's way of imposing its will on everyone , and forcing us to squeak if we want to be different .
Rather , the state should be forced to squeak when it desires our leave to intervene .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Licensing converts a right into a privilege.
A privilege is no longer a right.
And yes, you'll find that principle abrogated all across the laws and practices of our own nation.
The right to travel by common conveyance, for example, is no longer treated as a right but as a privilege.Jurisprudence dictates that blanket licensing should never be used to place limitations on a right; rather, other rights should be enforced against their exercise.
For example, you don't need a license to drink, do you?
No, even though getting drunk can certainly endanger other people.
Instead we enforce the rights of those other people against you, both through protection (if possible) during the event and punishment after the fact.
If you habitually violate the rights of others while drunk, we enforce their rights against you by enjoining you from drinking in the future.This is how driving should be administered as well.
No one should need a license to drive (age is a tangential issue, and age restrictions would be reasonable).
Just as any adult is considered ultimately capable of avoiding drinking beyond their limit (even if they do not always do so), any adult is obviously capable of avoiding driving if they are unfit for it for any reason.
Licensure should follow moving violations, rather than precede them.
If you commit a moving violation, then we should require a license plate on your car and a license in your wallet.
Otherwise we are simply enacting a massive tracking system for potential mis-use by the state, a practice that Bruce Scheier refers to rather eloquently as "bad civic hygiene".If you think that we'd have significantly more accidents or injuries in a post-violation licensing paradigm, you place way too much faith in the efficacy of the current system.Regarding the topic in the OP, parents should not be licensed to teach their own children, nor licensed to make educational or religious indoctrination decisions for them.
Instead, anyone who feels that a child is being mistreated by their parents - in any way - should simply have to make that case.
Personally, I consider it hypothetically acceptable for a group of people to decide that reading and mathematics are detrimental to their children's happiness, and to actively intervene to keep their children from accidentally learning either of those skills.
I don't share that believe myself, but can I truly claim that they are objectively mistreating their children by taking this approach?
Really? Can I claim that reading and math are necessary for... happiness? In my mind that is absurd - I would more likely argue against such a claim, than for it.
Imagine a society like the Amish, for example, but with no care for reading scripture.
Sounds like a perfectly happy hypothetical society to me.So it is always context-sensitive.
This is why licensure is wrong - licensure is never context-sensitive.
It is the lazy state's way of imposing its will on everyone, and forcing us to squeak if we want to be different.
Rather, the state should be forced to squeak when it desires our leave to intervene.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936958</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939078</id>
	<title>Re:You can homeschool all you want</title>
	<author>tompaulco</author>
	<datestamp>1264710420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Have you by any chance ever read any statistics on homeschooling, or do you prefer to make them up yourself since the facts fly in the face of your personal viewpoint? Check out wikipedia, then come back and share your findings.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Have you by any chance ever read any statistics on homeschooling , or do you prefer to make them up yourself since the facts fly in the face of your personal viewpoint ?
Check out wikipedia , then come back and share your findings .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have you by any chance ever read any statistics on homeschooling, or do you prefer to make them up yourself since the facts fly in the face of your personal viewpoint?
Check out wikipedia, then come back and share your findings.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937892</id>
	<title>Homeschooling and standard testing</title>
	<author>Well-Fed Troll</author>
	<datestamp>1264707600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In the really old days, the parents would teach their children the tools for survival.  Typically the father would teach his sons his own trade, the mother would teach the daughters how to be good mothers.<br>
Given this model, how would an artistic or tradeskill oriented education stack up on a standardized test?<br>
Lets see<br>
She can can create $50,000 sculptures in a month, but she fails at geography and her english is poor?<br>
He can create a couch from scratch, frame, stuffing, upholstery in 2 weeks, but is doing poorly on trigonometry?<br>
She is bringing in $20k a month on her acting/singing career at the age of 12, but<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...<br> <br>

Our education system is geared towards creating a lot of very similar minded people with boringly similar skill sets.  No wonder we no longer have "mechanical geniuses", Renaissance men.<br>
<br>
I'd say standardized tests would be all right, but there are a TON of things you can't test for that are very usable real world skills.  Homeschooling is a way to break out of this clone world we live in filled with fashion barbies and "All-American" quarterbacks.<br> <br>
My brother has Aspergers.  What I see as his biggest hindrance to being more successful is that everyone is trying to make him adjust to being normal.  As a society instead of ostracizing those we don't understand, we should encourage them to contribute in their own special way. <br> <br>

<a href="http://www.godtellsus.com/aboutraisingchildren.html" title="godtellsus.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.godtellsus.com/aboutraisingchildren.html</a> [godtellsus.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the really old days , the parents would teach their children the tools for survival .
Typically the father would teach his sons his own trade , the mother would teach the daughters how to be good mothers .
Given this model , how would an artistic or tradeskill oriented education stack up on a standardized test ?
Lets see She can can create $ 50,000 sculptures in a month , but she fails at geography and her english is poor ?
He can create a couch from scratch , frame , stuffing , upholstery in 2 weeks , but is doing poorly on trigonometry ?
She is bringing in $ 20k a month on her acting/singing career at the age of 12 , but .. . Our education system is geared towards creating a lot of very similar minded people with boringly similar skill sets .
No wonder we no longer have " mechanical geniuses " , Renaissance men .
I 'd say standardized tests would be all right , but there are a TON of things you ca n't test for that are very usable real world skills .
Homeschooling is a way to break out of this clone world we live in filled with fashion barbies and " All-American " quarterbacks .
My brother has Aspergers .
What I see as his biggest hindrance to being more successful is that everyone is trying to make him adjust to being normal .
As a society instead of ostracizing those we do n't understand , we should encourage them to contribute in their own special way .
http : //www.godtellsus.com/aboutraisingchildren.html [ godtellsus.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the really old days, the parents would teach their children the tools for survival.
Typically the father would teach his sons his own trade, the mother would teach the daughters how to be good mothers.
Given this model, how would an artistic or tradeskill oriented education stack up on a standardized test?
Lets see
She can can create $50,000 sculptures in a month, but she fails at geography and her english is poor?
He can create a couch from scratch, frame, stuffing, upholstery in 2 weeks, but is doing poorly on trigonometry?
She is bringing in $20k a month on her acting/singing career at the age of 12, but ... 

Our education system is geared towards creating a lot of very similar minded people with boringly similar skill sets.
No wonder we no longer have "mechanical geniuses", Renaissance men.
I'd say standardized tests would be all right, but there are a TON of things you can't test for that are very usable real world skills.
Homeschooling is a way to break out of this clone world we live in filled with fashion barbies and "All-American" quarterbacks.
My brother has Aspergers.
What I see as his biggest hindrance to being more successful is that everyone is trying to make him adjust to being normal.
As a society instead of ostracizing those we don't understand, we should encourage them to contribute in their own special way.
http://www.godtellsus.com/aboutraisingchildren.html [godtellsus.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936736</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939418</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>Attila Dimedici</author>
	<datestamp>1264711320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, every reference I have been able to find says that you have to get certified as a teacher by the German government (or one of its states). Those references indicate that one must at least complete a 24 month training program in order to get that certification. So, it is not a matter of taking a test and demonstrating sufficient knowledge. A much more equitable method of determing whether parents could home school or not would be periodic testing of the children in question using tests that are also used for children in the state schools and penalizing the parents if the children do not pass.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , every reference I have been able to find says that you have to get certified as a teacher by the German government ( or one of its states ) .
Those references indicate that one must at least complete a 24 month training program in order to get that certification .
So , it is not a matter of taking a test and demonstrating sufficient knowledge .
A much more equitable method of determing whether parents could home school or not would be periodic testing of the children in question using tests that are also used for children in the state schools and penalizing the parents if the children do not pass .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, every reference I have been able to find says that you have to get certified as a teacher by the German government (or one of its states).
Those references indicate that one must at least complete a 24 month training program in order to get that certification.
So, it is not a matter of taking a test and demonstrating sufficient knowledge.
A much more equitable method of determing whether parents could home school or not would be periodic testing of the children in question using tests that are also used for children in the state schools and penalizing the parents if the children do not pass.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936958</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939524</id>
	<title>Re:It would be a violation of human rights when:</title>
	<author>pudge</author>
	<datestamp>1264711620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>the kids get indoctrinated at home by parents who are to make sure the kids will never stand a chance in any competitive way in the real world</p></div><p>Now all you have to do is tell us how the government has any better insight than the parents to what "stand a chance in any competitive way in the real world."  Of course, you can't.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Now maybe this Judge considers that a 'right' for the parents, but he sure as hell ain't thinking about the kids rights!</p></div><p>The question is: where's the government's right to make these decisions FOR the kids?  It doesn't exist.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>the kids get indoctrinated at home by parents who are to make sure the kids will never stand a chance in any competitive way in the real worldNow all you have to do is tell us how the government has any better insight than the parents to what " stand a chance in any competitive way in the real world .
" Of course , you ca n't.Now maybe this Judge considers that a 'right ' for the parents , but he sure as hell ai n't thinking about the kids rights ! The question is : where 's the government 's right to make these decisions FOR the kids ?
It does n't exist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the kids get indoctrinated at home by parents who are to make sure the kids will never stand a chance in any competitive way in the real worldNow all you have to do is tell us how the government has any better insight than the parents to what "stand a chance in any competitive way in the real world.
"  Of course, you can't.Now maybe this Judge considers that a 'right' for the parents, but he sure as hell ain't thinking about the kids rights!The question is: where's the government's right to make these decisions FOR the kids?
It doesn't exist.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936776</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937678</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>digitig</author>
	<datestamp>1264707060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This is a very sensible verdict frankly, because no other developed western country stops you from educating your children yourself</p></div><p>And if you'd broken with tradition and read the article you would discover that Germany doesn't either.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a very sensible verdict frankly , because no other developed western country stops you from educating your children yourselfAnd if you 'd broken with tradition and read the article you would discover that Germany does n't either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a very sensible verdict frankly, because no other developed western country stops you from educating your children yourselfAnd if you'd broken with tradition and read the article you would discover that Germany doesn't either.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938030</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264707900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why should you have the right to brainwash someone just because they were unfortunate enough to be your crotchspawn?</p><p>Let them make their own fucking choices.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why should you have the right to brainwash someone just because they were unfortunate enough to be your crotchspawn ? Let them make their own fucking choices .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why should you have the right to brainwash someone just because they were unfortunate enough to be your crotchspawn?Let them make their own fucking choices.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944594</id>
	<title>Re:So I presume we will immediately grant asylum..</title>
	<author>buddyglass</author>
	<datestamp>1264689420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I dunno.  Do you have any evidence that brown peoples' asylum requests on the basis of denial of education have been rejected?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I dunno .
Do you have any evidence that brown peoples ' asylum requests on the basis of denial of education have been rejected ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I dunno.
Do you have any evidence that brown peoples' asylum requests on the basis of denial of education have been rejected?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936524</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941978</id>
	<title>Re:I do it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264675920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>They have a sense of unease about them in the office that kids who go to regular schools don't.</p></div><p>Why do you think your daughter is projecting her beliefs unto her clients? Probably because she was socialized by the status quo to reject things that are different. It's obvious that your daughter is making value judgments on what she deems to be "unease".</p><p>Most nice people are quiet and respectful. Socialized people are loud and obnoxious. This is what I have found and this must be what your daughter has noticed. It's interesting that you refer to these positive qualities as "unease".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>They have a sense of unease about them in the office that kids who go to regular schools do n't.Why do you think your daughter is projecting her beliefs unto her clients ?
Probably because she was socialized by the status quo to reject things that are different .
It 's obvious that your daughter is making value judgments on what she deems to be " unease " .Most nice people are quiet and respectful .
Socialized people are loud and obnoxious .
This is what I have found and this must be what your daughter has noticed .
It 's interesting that you refer to these positive qualities as " unease " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They have a sense of unease about them in the office that kids who go to regular schools don't.Why do you think your daughter is projecting her beliefs unto her clients?
Probably because she was socialized by the status quo to reject things that are different.
It's obvious that your daughter is making value judgments on what she deems to be "unease".Most nice people are quiet and respectful.
Socialized people are loud and obnoxious.
This is what I have found and this must be what your daughter has noticed.
It's interesting that you refer to these positive qualities as "unease".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30947178</id>
	<title>It is not about homeschooling being good or bad.</title>
	<author>treczoks</author>
	<datestamp>1264759620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here in Germany there is an "allgemeine Schulpflicht", i.e. children have the obligation to attend school and are (generally) not allowed to be schooled at home. This is German law for about a century, and generally accepted.Exceptions, e.g.  for travelling folk are very strictly regulated to ensure that the children get a decent education.</p><p>The Romeike family simply refused to obey the law and claimed "religious reasons" for doing so. In the US they (fraudulently, IMHO) claimed being prosecuted for "religious reasons", and were granted asylum. But this "prosecution for religious reasons" is totally bogus - they were simply prosecuted for breaking the law, like every common criminal. And claiming this "prosecution for religious reasons" is not only fraudulent, it is generally considered an insult in the German public, because we take religious freedom really seriously - something caused by our history.</p><p>Imagine someone would kill other people and claim religious reasons for doing so ("Kali told me to rip his heart out!"), would you agree that convicting this person for murder would be a "prosecution for religious reasons" and grant him asylum? The example might be a bit extreme, but at the end of the day both is breaking the law, and purporting religion for doing so.</p><p>And even in the US the cop would only laugh if you claimed "God told me to put the pedal to the medal!" when he pulled you over for speeding. Well, maybe not if it was a Tennessee cop, though...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here in Germany there is an " allgemeine Schulpflicht " , i.e .
children have the obligation to attend school and are ( generally ) not allowed to be schooled at home .
This is German law for about a century , and generally accepted.Exceptions , e.g .
for travelling folk are very strictly regulated to ensure that the children get a decent education.The Romeike family simply refused to obey the law and claimed " religious reasons " for doing so .
In the US they ( fraudulently , IMHO ) claimed being prosecuted for " religious reasons " , and were granted asylum .
But this " prosecution for religious reasons " is totally bogus - they were simply prosecuted for breaking the law , like every common criminal .
And claiming this " prosecution for religious reasons " is not only fraudulent , it is generally considered an insult in the German public , because we take religious freedom really seriously - something caused by our history.Imagine someone would kill other people and claim religious reasons for doing so ( " Kali told me to rip his heart out !
" ) , would you agree that convicting this person for murder would be a " prosecution for religious reasons " and grant him asylum ?
The example might be a bit extreme , but at the end of the day both is breaking the law , and purporting religion for doing so.And even in the US the cop would only laugh if you claimed " God told me to put the pedal to the medal !
" when he pulled you over for speeding .
Well , maybe not if it was a Tennessee cop , though.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here in Germany there is an "allgemeine Schulpflicht", i.e.
children have the obligation to attend school and are (generally) not allowed to be schooled at home.
This is German law for about a century, and generally accepted.Exceptions, e.g.
for travelling folk are very strictly regulated to ensure that the children get a decent education.The Romeike family simply refused to obey the law and claimed "religious reasons" for doing so.
In the US they (fraudulently, IMHO) claimed being prosecuted for "religious reasons", and were granted asylum.
But this "prosecution for religious reasons" is totally bogus - they were simply prosecuted for breaking the law, like every common criminal.
And claiming this "prosecution for religious reasons" is not only fraudulent, it is generally considered an insult in the German public, because we take religious freedom really seriously - something caused by our history.Imagine someone would kill other people and claim religious reasons for doing so ("Kali told me to rip his heart out!
"), would you agree that convicting this person for murder would be a "prosecution for religious reasons" and grant him asylum?
The example might be a bit extreme, but at the end of the day both is breaking the law, and purporting religion for doing so.And even in the US the cop would only laugh if you claimed "God told me to put the pedal to the medal!
" when he pulled you over for speeding.
Well, maybe not if it was a Tennessee cop, though...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936960</id>
	<title>Re:So I presume we will immediately grant asylum..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264705440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They will get asylum if make it to the US and ask for it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They will get asylum if make it to the US and ask for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They will get asylum if make it to the US and ask for it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936524</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939558</id>
	<title>Re:No story here</title>
	<author>nawitus</author>
	<datestamp>1264711680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Parenting should and is regulated. I've never believed in the idea that parents somehow "own" their children. If the parents don't give a neutral, healthly  upbringing then the government should step in and take the children away. There is no "right religion" to choose, they shouldn't brainwash the children into any religion. It's okay to teach facts about religions though.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Parenting should and is regulated .
I 've never believed in the idea that parents somehow " own " their children .
If the parents do n't give a neutral , healthly upbringing then the government should step in and take the children away .
There is no " right religion " to choose , they should n't brainwash the children into any religion .
It 's okay to teach facts about religions though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Parenting should and is regulated.
I've never believed in the idea that parents somehow "own" their children.
If the parents don't give a neutral, healthly  upbringing then the government should step in and take the children away.
There is no "right religion" to choose, they shouldn't brainwash the children into any religion.
It's okay to teach facts about religions though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30943996</id>
	<title>Re:No story here</title>
	<author>wjc\_25</author>
	<datestamp>1264685100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There's no such thing as a "neutral, healthy" upbringing. The mind is shaped into the mold of society. What you propose is a system that ascribes particular values and norms to religion (the idea that there is no "right" decision, making the choice essentially arbitrary, and that extended exposure to particular religions somehow stunts the mind). Defend your values, norms--fine. I can respect that. But please, by now--in the twenty-first century, with postmodernism nearly old hat--can we get over the myth of a neutral society?</htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's no such thing as a " neutral , healthy " upbringing .
The mind is shaped into the mold of society .
What you propose is a system that ascribes particular values and norms to religion ( the idea that there is no " right " decision , making the choice essentially arbitrary , and that extended exposure to particular religions somehow stunts the mind ) .
Defend your values , norms--fine .
I can respect that .
But please , by now--in the twenty-first century , with postmodernism nearly old hat--can we get over the myth of a neutral society ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's no such thing as a "neutral, healthy" upbringing.
The mind is shaped into the mold of society.
What you propose is a system that ascribes particular values and norms to religion (the idea that there is no "right" decision, making the choice essentially arbitrary, and that extended exposure to particular religions somehow stunts the mind).
Defend your values, norms--fine.
I can respect that.
But please, by now--in the twenty-first century, with postmodernism nearly old hat--can we get over the myth of a neutral society?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939558</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939348</id>
	<title>Re:I do it</title>
	<author>pudge</author>
	<datestamp>1264711140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>How do you address the social aspects of school? A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people, larger groups, and authority respectfully and responsibly.</p></div><p>In my experience -- and as a "geek" I am sure many people here share it -- is that the social aspects of public school suck in pretty much every way.  They teach you to be afraid of being yourself; teach you how to NOT interact with people honestly and straightforwardly; and -- if, like me, you had some bad teachers -- teach you how to DISrespect authority.</p><p>Thankfully, I made a conscious decision in the sixth or seventh grade to simply disregard people who didn't like me ("if you don't like me or treat me badly, you are not worth my time").  But most kids can't or won't do that, and many end up much worse off for it.</p><p>I do not accept this modern notion that throwing our children to the sharks at a young age is the best way to teach them how to handle sharks as an adult.  I find, through experience, that a much more nurturing environment pays off into a more well-adjusted adult later on.</p><p>It's not like homeschool kids are sheltered.  Overwhelmingly, of them have regular activities with kids and adults of all ages, most of whom are wondeful people, all of whom are flawed people.  In fact, homeschool kids often have MORE exposure to broader ranges of people, because they don't spend so many hours a week with the same people, week after week after week.  They have more opportunity for diversity in their activities, and often take advantage of that.</p><p>I know a lot of homeschool kids, and most of them are some of the nicest and most social kids you'll ever meet, and they are perfectly capable of working with people who are "difficult."</p><p>There's the occasional family that completely shelters their kids, but that's an exception.  The norm is much, much different.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How do you address the social aspects of school ?
A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people , larger groups , and authority respectfully and responsibly.In my experience -- and as a " geek " I am sure many people here share it -- is that the social aspects of public school suck in pretty much every way .
They teach you to be afraid of being yourself ; teach you how to NOT interact with people honestly and straightforwardly ; and -- if , like me , you had some bad teachers -- teach you how to DISrespect authority.Thankfully , I made a conscious decision in the sixth or seventh grade to simply disregard people who did n't like me ( " if you do n't like me or treat me badly , you are not worth my time " ) .
But most kids ca n't or wo n't do that , and many end up much worse off for it.I do not accept this modern notion that throwing our children to the sharks at a young age is the best way to teach them how to handle sharks as an adult .
I find , through experience , that a much more nurturing environment pays off into a more well-adjusted adult later on.It 's not like homeschool kids are sheltered .
Overwhelmingly , of them have regular activities with kids and adults of all ages , most of whom are wondeful people , all of whom are flawed people .
In fact , homeschool kids often have MORE exposure to broader ranges of people , because they do n't spend so many hours a week with the same people , week after week after week .
They have more opportunity for diversity in their activities , and often take advantage of that.I know a lot of homeschool kids , and most of them are some of the nicest and most social kids you 'll ever meet , and they are perfectly capable of working with people who are " difficult .
" There 's the occasional family that completely shelters their kids , but that 's an exception .
The norm is much , much different .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How do you address the social aspects of school?
A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people, larger groups, and authority respectfully and responsibly.In my experience -- and as a "geek" I am sure many people here share it -- is that the social aspects of public school suck in pretty much every way.
They teach you to be afraid of being yourself; teach you how to NOT interact with people honestly and straightforwardly; and -- if, like me, you had some bad teachers -- teach you how to DISrespect authority.Thankfully, I made a conscious decision in the sixth or seventh grade to simply disregard people who didn't like me ("if you don't like me or treat me badly, you are not worth my time").
But most kids can't or won't do that, and many end up much worse off for it.I do not accept this modern notion that throwing our children to the sharks at a young age is the best way to teach them how to handle sharks as an adult.
I find, through experience, that a much more nurturing environment pays off into a more well-adjusted adult later on.It's not like homeschool kids are sheltered.
Overwhelmingly, of them have regular activities with kids and adults of all ages, most of whom are wondeful people, all of whom are flawed people.
In fact, homeschool kids often have MORE exposure to broader ranges of people, because they don't spend so many hours a week with the same people, week after week after week.
They have more opportunity for diversity in their activities, and often take advantage of that.I know a lot of homeschool kids, and most of them are some of the nicest and most social kids you'll ever meet, and they are perfectly capable of working with people who are "difficult.
"There's the occasional family that completely shelters their kids, but that's an exception.
The norm is much, much different.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937788</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>infinite9</author>
	<datestamp>1264707300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The only problem I have with homeschooling is that the <b>vast majority</b> of homeschooling is done by ultra fanatic religious fringe groups who claim their kids would get all those "wrong" ideas (like, say, a humanistic education and values) when they were sent to a public school.</p></div><p>As a christian, I've met many home-schoolers.  And I don't think anyone would consider any of them to be ultra fanatic religious fringe group members.  They were definitely christians, but very level-headed.  I would love to be able to home school my kids.  But I have to work. And my wife doesn't feel qualified to do it.  So we send our kids to a private christian school.</p><p>Any time the government dictates a certain standard of <i>anything</i> for all children in the country, it infringes on freedom.  When a population is allowed to home school, there's always a risk that some kids won't get an adequate education.  But you can't legislate away bad parenting.</p><p>The next time you feel like we should outlaw home schooling, think about how you would react if a religious nut came to power and mandated that your children take a religion class in public school.  Would you want to pull your kids out and educate them in the manner of your choosing?</p><p>P.S. In my kids' private christian school, they learn about evolution.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only problem I have with homeschooling is that the vast majority of homeschooling is done by ultra fanatic religious fringe groups who claim their kids would get all those " wrong " ideas ( like , say , a humanistic education and values ) when they were sent to a public school.As a christian , I 've met many home-schoolers .
And I do n't think anyone would consider any of them to be ultra fanatic religious fringe group members .
They were definitely christians , but very level-headed .
I would love to be able to home school my kids .
But I have to work .
And my wife does n't feel qualified to do it .
So we send our kids to a private christian school.Any time the government dictates a certain standard of anything for all children in the country , it infringes on freedom .
When a population is allowed to home school , there 's always a risk that some kids wo n't get an adequate education .
But you ca n't legislate away bad parenting.The next time you feel like we should outlaw home schooling , think about how you would react if a religious nut came to power and mandated that your children take a religion class in public school .
Would you want to pull your kids out and educate them in the manner of your choosing ? P.S .
In my kids ' private christian school , they learn about evolution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only problem I have with homeschooling is that the vast majority of homeschooling is done by ultra fanatic religious fringe groups who claim their kids would get all those "wrong" ideas (like, say, a humanistic education and values) when they were sent to a public school.As a christian, I've met many home-schoolers.
And I don't think anyone would consider any of them to be ultra fanatic religious fringe group members.
They were definitely christians, but very level-headed.
I would love to be able to home school my kids.
But I have to work.
And my wife doesn't feel qualified to do it.
So we send our kids to a private christian school.Any time the government dictates a certain standard of anything for all children in the country, it infringes on freedom.
When a population is allowed to home school, there's always a risk that some kids won't get an adequate education.
But you can't legislate away bad parenting.The next time you feel like we should outlaw home schooling, think about how you would react if a religious nut came to power and mandated that your children take a religion class in public school.
Would you want to pull your kids out and educate them in the manner of your choosing?P.S.
In my kids' private christian school, they learn about evolution.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936606</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30949886</id>
	<title>Re:I do it</title>
	<author>sac13</author>
	<datestamp>1264782840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>How do you address the social aspects of school?</p></div><p>It blows my mind at how anti-homeschooling people seem to only have the socialization argument to support government schooling.  I never hear about the superior education from the highly trained teachers.  I never hear about how much higher the government educated students score on tests than the homeschooling students.  I never hear about the higher college acceptance rate of government educated students compared to homeschooled students.</p><p>Why is that?  Why is it that in a discussion about the best way to educate a child, those advocated one position talk NOTHING about education.  They only talk about "socialization" like homeschooled kids are kept isolated in a box and only let out for spelling bees.</p><p>The fact is, there are a large number of government educated children that are "socialized" but despite that, they sure as hell are anti-social.  Could it be that it has more to do with the social nature of the parents than the child's educational environment?  Many of the "unsocialized" homeschooled children (the ones that most people imagine when they think of homeschooling) have parents that aren't exactly the type to embrace socialization outside of a religious context.</p><p>We homeschool our children.  We don't do it for religious reasons.  We only choose to do it because our kids are getting a much higher quality of education.  And, we are also highly social people in our community.  So, our kids get plenty of "socialization" in real life.  People we interact with on a regular basis are always shocked to find out that our kids are homeschooled.  They're even more social than their peers and can interact just as well with adults as they can children.  And, since they don't spend the large excess of their formative time around other socially undeveloped children, they have a good perspective on what is a socially acceptable action and what isn't.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Where was the line for you between, "I'll do this myself" and "Extend/correct/expound/refine what they learned at school"?</p></div><p>
When we had a child while living in a state that was ranked 50th in the nation for education... It was the only responsible choice after considering the overpriced and marginally better quality of the local private schools.
</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Of the teachers I know, the best students weren't always the smartest but they were the ones whose parents took an active interest in what they were learning and who added on to that at home.</p></div><p>And there you've touched on the problem with compulsory government education... If the home life doesn't value and prioritize education, it doesn't matter how highly trained the teacher is, the child is most likely not going to contribute positively to the class.  Parents have outsourced their responsibility to government and most don't bother to accept their fiduciary responsibility to ensure that education is happening.  Kids notice it's not that important to parents (except MAYBE around report card time) and they will act accordingly.  Then school is really just where you go to hang out with your friends all day and "socialize."</p><p>That is what makes it all break down for those that actually want to learn...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How do you address the social aspects of school ? It blows my mind at how anti-homeschooling people seem to only have the socialization argument to support government schooling .
I never hear about the superior education from the highly trained teachers .
I never hear about how much higher the government educated students score on tests than the homeschooling students .
I never hear about the higher college acceptance rate of government educated students compared to homeschooled students.Why is that ?
Why is it that in a discussion about the best way to educate a child , those advocated one position talk NOTHING about education .
They only talk about " socialization " like homeschooled kids are kept isolated in a box and only let out for spelling bees.The fact is , there are a large number of government educated children that are " socialized " but despite that , they sure as hell are anti-social .
Could it be that it has more to do with the social nature of the parents than the child 's educational environment ?
Many of the " unsocialized " homeschooled children ( the ones that most people imagine when they think of homeschooling ) have parents that are n't exactly the type to embrace socialization outside of a religious context.We homeschool our children .
We do n't do it for religious reasons .
We only choose to do it because our kids are getting a much higher quality of education .
And , we are also highly social people in our community .
So , our kids get plenty of " socialization " in real life .
People we interact with on a regular basis are always shocked to find out that our kids are homeschooled .
They 're even more social than their peers and can interact just as well with adults as they can children .
And , since they do n't spend the large excess of their formative time around other socially undeveloped children , they have a good perspective on what is a socially acceptable action and what is n't.Where was the line for you between , " I 'll do this myself " and " Extend/correct/expound/refine what they learned at school " ?
When we had a child while living in a state that was ranked 50th in the nation for education... It was the only responsible choice after considering the overpriced and marginally better quality of the local private schools .
Of the teachers I know , the best students were n't always the smartest but they were the ones whose parents took an active interest in what they were learning and who added on to that at home.And there you 've touched on the problem with compulsory government education... If the home life does n't value and prioritize education , it does n't matter how highly trained the teacher is , the child is most likely not going to contribute positively to the class .
Parents have outsourced their responsibility to government and most do n't bother to accept their fiduciary responsibility to ensure that education is happening .
Kids notice it 's not that important to parents ( except MAYBE around report card time ) and they will act accordingly .
Then school is really just where you go to hang out with your friends all day and " socialize .
" That is what makes it all break down for those that actually want to learn.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How do you address the social aspects of school?It blows my mind at how anti-homeschooling people seem to only have the socialization argument to support government schooling.
I never hear about the superior education from the highly trained teachers.
I never hear about how much higher the government educated students score on tests than the homeschooling students.
I never hear about the higher college acceptance rate of government educated students compared to homeschooled students.Why is that?
Why is it that in a discussion about the best way to educate a child, those advocated one position talk NOTHING about education.
They only talk about "socialization" like homeschooled kids are kept isolated in a box and only let out for spelling bees.The fact is, there are a large number of government educated children that are "socialized" but despite that, they sure as hell are anti-social.
Could it be that it has more to do with the social nature of the parents than the child's educational environment?
Many of the "unsocialized" homeschooled children (the ones that most people imagine when they think of homeschooling) have parents that aren't exactly the type to embrace socialization outside of a religious context.We homeschool our children.
We don't do it for religious reasons.
We only choose to do it because our kids are getting a much higher quality of education.
And, we are also highly social people in our community.
So, our kids get plenty of "socialization" in real life.
People we interact with on a regular basis are always shocked to find out that our kids are homeschooled.
They're even more social than their peers and can interact just as well with adults as they can children.
And, since they don't spend the large excess of their formative time around other socially undeveloped children, they have a good perspective on what is a socially acceptable action and what isn't.Where was the line for you between, "I'll do this myself" and "Extend/correct/expound/refine what they learned at school"?
When we had a child while living in a state that was ranked 50th in the nation for education... It was the only responsible choice after considering the overpriced and marginally better quality of the local private schools.
Of the teachers I know, the best students weren't always the smartest but they were the ones whose parents took an active interest in what they were learning and who added on to that at home.And there you've touched on the problem with compulsory government education... If the home life doesn't value and prioritize education, it doesn't matter how highly trained the teacher is, the child is most likely not going to contribute positively to the class.
Parents have outsourced their responsibility to government and most don't bother to accept their fiduciary responsibility to ensure that education is happening.
Kids notice it's not that important to parents (except MAYBE around report card time) and they will act accordingly.
Then school is really just where you go to hang out with your friends all day and "socialize.
"That is what makes it all break down for those that actually want to learn...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938336</id>
	<title>Re:You can homeschool all you want</title>
	<author>Eravnrekaree</author>
	<datestamp>1264708560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am not a big fan of public schools in their current form, not because of the teachers but because of the bullying and the peer pressure that goes on there which can damage children as much as the religious ideology. There are some characteristics of the public schoos, the assembly line environment, the rote memorisation of endless facts over learning how to think critically, the one size fits all mentality that cannot adjust to the particular learning style and learning speeds of different students. The rote memorisation factor can completely ruin students and it almost ruined me. I do not have a perfect memory and cannot retain information very reliably and this caused severe problems in schools. I was being held up for not being able to memorise multiplication tables and other such things. I found later on that if i could use notes and instead focused on working off of notes, books, texts, examples instead of memorisation many of the problems went away and I was able to advanced rapidly through algebra and calculus after being stuck for years at long division in the public schools. I think the rote memorisation causes burn out for many students and causes them to give up and fail. So many lives are being destroyed by this inflexible system. The system was holding me up with its inflexible requirements of memorisation, when otherwise i could have been on to algebra rather than doing division and trying to learn multiplication tables. On the other hand, some students have excellent memories, can absorb vast amounts of information and can work very quickly through subjects, and in many cases these people are being held back and kept from progressing by the same inflexible system. We perhaps have the einstiens and so on who are being held back for years and perhaps are being squandered and wasted, much of their critical school years being wasted when otherwise they may have well on their way on having a head start to being scientific geniuses who will become great scientists and inventors. so we have a system that demands students fit into an exact mold, and they cannot perform any less or more than expected, and one also based on mediocrity and excessive and overburdening demands at the same time and cannot understand that people are different and have differing ability. The math clutz might become a great artist. The kid who failed literature might become a great scientist. Yet if a person does not make the systems specification they are completely rejected and ruined, even if their abilities in one area were superb.</p><p>The burn out problem is huge and its a combination of factors. Schools have been turned into such a drudgery of memorisation without really it being understood why this is important. Instead of being something exciting and fun which it could be it is turned into a painful and agonising ordeal. I think this gives people the idea that academics, science, and all forms of intellectualism and learning are dull, boring, and arduous difficult tasks, thus ruining countless people through burn out who have potential that will go unrealised.</p><p>i think it is important to have a rich, and intricate, broad education, NOT dumbed down in any way, but if a person does not remember everything perfectly, I dont think completely rejecting them and ruining them is the right way to go. This sort "unless your perfect to our specification our your a total failure" mentality makes school a panicked, frustrating and frightening ordeal to many that could perhaps burn them out and squander their potential. Students should also be able to progress as quickly as they can, no depth of understanding or level of advanced learning and knowledge should be denied to them. They should be enabled by having the books, materials provided and their questions asked, and new directions and insights pointed out. its good for teachers to give a discussion and talk about and introduce and discuss topics but the "unless you remember this we will destroy you" mentality is not necessary.</p><p>As for schools, i think should be a variety of</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am not a big fan of public schools in their current form , not because of the teachers but because of the bullying and the peer pressure that goes on there which can damage children as much as the religious ideology .
There are some characteristics of the public schoos , the assembly line environment , the rote memorisation of endless facts over learning how to think critically , the one size fits all mentality that can not adjust to the particular learning style and learning speeds of different students .
The rote memorisation factor can completely ruin students and it almost ruined me .
I do not have a perfect memory and can not retain information very reliably and this caused severe problems in schools .
I was being held up for not being able to memorise multiplication tables and other such things .
I found later on that if i could use notes and instead focused on working off of notes , books , texts , examples instead of memorisation many of the problems went away and I was able to advanced rapidly through algebra and calculus after being stuck for years at long division in the public schools .
I think the rote memorisation causes burn out for many students and causes them to give up and fail .
So many lives are being destroyed by this inflexible system .
The system was holding me up with its inflexible requirements of memorisation , when otherwise i could have been on to algebra rather than doing division and trying to learn multiplication tables .
On the other hand , some students have excellent memories , can absorb vast amounts of information and can work very quickly through subjects , and in many cases these people are being held back and kept from progressing by the same inflexible system .
We perhaps have the einstiens and so on who are being held back for years and perhaps are being squandered and wasted , much of their critical school years being wasted when otherwise they may have well on their way on having a head start to being scientific geniuses who will become great scientists and inventors .
so we have a system that demands students fit into an exact mold , and they can not perform any less or more than expected , and one also based on mediocrity and excessive and overburdening demands at the same time and can not understand that people are different and have differing ability .
The math clutz might become a great artist .
The kid who failed literature might become a great scientist .
Yet if a person does not make the systems specification they are completely rejected and ruined , even if their abilities in one area were superb.The burn out problem is huge and its a combination of factors .
Schools have been turned into such a drudgery of memorisation without really it being understood why this is important .
Instead of being something exciting and fun which it could be it is turned into a painful and agonising ordeal .
I think this gives people the idea that academics , science , and all forms of intellectualism and learning are dull , boring , and arduous difficult tasks , thus ruining countless people through burn out who have potential that will go unrealised.i think it is important to have a rich , and intricate , broad education , NOT dumbed down in any way , but if a person does not remember everything perfectly , I dont think completely rejecting them and ruining them is the right way to go .
This sort " unless your perfect to our specification our your a total failure " mentality makes school a panicked , frustrating and frightening ordeal to many that could perhaps burn them out and squander their potential .
Students should also be able to progress as quickly as they can , no depth of understanding or level of advanced learning and knowledge should be denied to them .
They should be enabled by having the books , materials provided and their questions asked , and new directions and insights pointed out .
its good for teachers to give a discussion and talk about and introduce and discuss topics but the " unless you remember this we will destroy you " mentality is not necessary.As for schools , i think should be a variety of</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am not a big fan of public schools in their current form, not because of the teachers but because of the bullying and the peer pressure that goes on there which can damage children as much as the religious ideology.
There are some characteristics of the public schoos, the assembly line environment, the rote memorisation of endless facts over learning how to think critically, the one size fits all mentality that cannot adjust to the particular learning style and learning speeds of different students.
The rote memorisation factor can completely ruin students and it almost ruined me.
I do not have a perfect memory and cannot retain information very reliably and this caused severe problems in schools.
I was being held up for not being able to memorise multiplication tables and other such things.
I found later on that if i could use notes and instead focused on working off of notes, books, texts, examples instead of memorisation many of the problems went away and I was able to advanced rapidly through algebra and calculus after being stuck for years at long division in the public schools.
I think the rote memorisation causes burn out for many students and causes them to give up and fail.
So many lives are being destroyed by this inflexible system.
The system was holding me up with its inflexible requirements of memorisation, when otherwise i could have been on to algebra rather than doing division and trying to learn multiplication tables.
On the other hand, some students have excellent memories, can absorb vast amounts of information and can work very quickly through subjects, and in many cases these people are being held back and kept from progressing by the same inflexible system.
We perhaps have the einstiens and so on who are being held back for years and perhaps are being squandered and wasted, much of their critical school years being wasted when otherwise they may have well on their way on having a head start to being scientific geniuses who will become great scientists and inventors.
so we have a system that demands students fit into an exact mold, and they cannot perform any less or more than expected, and one also based on mediocrity and excessive and overburdening demands at the same time and cannot understand that people are different and have differing ability.
The math clutz might become a great artist.
The kid who failed literature might become a great scientist.
Yet if a person does not make the systems specification they are completely rejected and ruined, even if their abilities in one area were superb.The burn out problem is huge and its a combination of factors.
Schools have been turned into such a drudgery of memorisation without really it being understood why this is important.
Instead of being something exciting and fun which it could be it is turned into a painful and agonising ordeal.
I think this gives people the idea that academics, science, and all forms of intellectualism and learning are dull, boring, and arduous difficult tasks, thus ruining countless people through burn out who have potential that will go unrealised.i think it is important to have a rich, and intricate, broad education, NOT dumbed down in any way, but if a person does not remember everything perfectly, I dont think completely rejecting them and ruining them is the right way to go.
This sort "unless your perfect to our specification our your a total failure" mentality makes school a panicked, frustrating and frightening ordeal to many that could perhaps burn them out and squander their potential.
Students should also be able to progress as quickly as they can, no depth of understanding or level of advanced learning and knowledge should be denied to them.
They should be enabled by having the books, materials provided and their questions asked, and new directions and insights pointed out.
its good for teachers to give a discussion and talk about and introduce and discuss topics but the "unless you remember this we will destroy you" mentality is not necessary.As for schools, i think should be a variety of</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937990</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>jim\_v2000</author>
	<datestamp>1264707840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They also are not property of the state to brainwash under the guise of "protecting their rights".</htmltext>
<tokenext>They also are not property of the state to brainwash under the guise of " protecting their rights " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They also are not property of the state to brainwash under the guise of "protecting their rights".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937270</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942056</id>
	<title>Re:I do it</title>
	<author>Rolgar</author>
	<datestamp>1264676100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Every study of the social effects of homeschooling v. schooling indicates that overall, homeschool raised children are better socialized than their schooled peers. Sure, we all remember the few encounters we've had with people who haven't done a decent job of getting their children out of the house to meet others. But those are the outliers of homeschoolers, not the norm.</p><p>School raised children are much more likely to be clique-y and judgmental, have experienced being bullied, reject interacting with younger children, and significantly less able to hold a conversation with an adult. Don't forget that for much of the time that children are in school, their teachers' want them quiet and not interacting while they are involved in formal lessons, listening, taking tests, reading, filling out worksheets, etc.</p><p>On the other hand, homeschooled children are able to have a much wider range of social experiences, because they are able to do something else during the 14,000 hours that schooled children spend in school over the course of 13 years. When you aren't in school, every day becomes a field trip learning day. Many people have their children out of school 2-4 days a week, often interacting with adults the way any of us do when we aren't at work. Some parents even take vacations during the off season (when most people are tied to home while school is in session), and make their trips around the country into history and geography lessons, and teach civics by going to a city or county governance meeting.</p><p>One interesting thing I read while researching homeschooling indicates that many studies into homeschooled adults have not been able to find any that are unemployed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Every study of the social effects of homeschooling v. schooling indicates that overall , homeschool raised children are better socialized than their schooled peers .
Sure , we all remember the few encounters we 've had with people who have n't done a decent job of getting their children out of the house to meet others .
But those are the outliers of homeschoolers , not the norm.School raised children are much more likely to be clique-y and judgmental , have experienced being bullied , reject interacting with younger children , and significantly less able to hold a conversation with an adult .
Do n't forget that for much of the time that children are in school , their teachers ' want them quiet and not interacting while they are involved in formal lessons , listening , taking tests , reading , filling out worksheets , etc.On the other hand , homeschooled children are able to have a much wider range of social experiences , because they are able to do something else during the 14,000 hours that schooled children spend in school over the course of 13 years .
When you are n't in school , every day becomes a field trip learning day .
Many people have their children out of school 2-4 days a week , often interacting with adults the way any of us do when we are n't at work .
Some parents even take vacations during the off season ( when most people are tied to home while school is in session ) , and make their trips around the country into history and geography lessons , and teach civics by going to a city or county governance meeting.One interesting thing I read while researching homeschooling indicates that many studies into homeschooled adults have not been able to find any that are unemployed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Every study of the social effects of homeschooling v. schooling indicates that overall, homeschool raised children are better socialized than their schooled peers.
Sure, we all remember the few encounters we've had with people who haven't done a decent job of getting their children out of the house to meet others.
But those are the outliers of homeschoolers, not the norm.School raised children are much more likely to be clique-y and judgmental, have experienced being bullied, reject interacting with younger children, and significantly less able to hold a conversation with an adult.
Don't forget that for much of the time that children are in school, their teachers' want them quiet and not interacting while they are involved in formal lessons, listening, taking tests, reading, filling out worksheets, etc.On the other hand, homeschooled children are able to have a much wider range of social experiences, because they are able to do something else during the 14,000 hours that schooled children spend in school over the course of 13 years.
When you aren't in school, every day becomes a field trip learning day.
Many people have their children out of school 2-4 days a week, often interacting with adults the way any of us do when we aren't at work.
Some parents even take vacations during the off season (when most people are tied to home while school is in session), and make their trips around the country into history and geography lessons, and teach civics by going to a city or county governance meeting.One interesting thing I read while researching homeschooling indicates that many studies into homeschooled adults have not been able to find any that are unemployed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30948082</id>
	<title>cornflakes4brains</title>
	<author>cornflakes4brains</author>
	<datestamp>1264772280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>We would never tolerate a foreign gov dictating our education policy, but there's the arrogance of the USA again...meanwhile, the religious right is waging a war on common sense trying to say my children should be taught "science" based on the notion that all science is evil...while using modern communications based on tech using theoretical and mathematical work done by the very scientists they deride as crackpots. Education *is* a public duty of society, and education must be based on learning factual information. Maybe they want our country back in the dark ages, but we don't have the right to demand the Germans be forced to return to the days when the earth was flat and people were burned at the stake for witchcraft.</htmltext>
<tokenext>We would never tolerate a foreign gov dictating our education policy , but there 's the arrogance of the USA again...meanwhile , the religious right is waging a war on common sense trying to say my children should be taught " science " based on the notion that all science is evil...while using modern communications based on tech using theoretical and mathematical work done by the very scientists they deride as crackpots .
Education * is * a public duty of society , and education must be based on learning factual information .
Maybe they want our country back in the dark ages , but we do n't have the right to demand the Germans be forced to return to the days when the earth was flat and people were burned at the stake for witchcraft .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We would never tolerate a foreign gov dictating our education policy, but there's the arrogance of the USA again...meanwhile, the religious right is waging a war on common sense trying to say my children should be taught "science" based on the notion that all science is evil...while using modern communications based on tech using theoretical and mathematical work done by the very scientists they deride as crackpots.
Education *is* a public duty of society, and education must be based on learning factual information.
Maybe they want our country back in the dark ages, but we don't have the right to demand the Germans be forced to return to the days when the earth was flat and people were burned at the stake for witchcraft.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942634</id>
	<title>Re:Public "education" isn't</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264678260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've read his book, "Dumbing Us Down:  The Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Schooling".  He had some interesting points, but I also think he had a very strong libertarian bent.  He was the type of guy who would throw the baby out with the bathwater so to speak.</p><p>My problem with libertarianism is that everyone I've meet carry the banner are either the druggies or those who have already made theirs, and damned with everyone else (yes it is a small sample, it is about 20+ people).  Not every parent is capable of teaching their children.  The public education system is a fine base-line, though I think better parents should recognize public schools as a base-line.</p><p>Even if you agree with Mr. Gatto's premise, not every child will have a "Monongahela river" experience with independent education.  Most children before public schools were capable of little more than farm work or factory work once they became adults.  Granted, one could argue, many children now are little capable of those jobs with public schools.  Yet, a public education does offer some children a chance to read, write, and do arithmetic better than their parents who never learned those skills.  Public schools may indoctrinate children with government propaganda, but many parents would indoctrinate their children with dogmas even more so.</p><p>I believe parents who are comfortable home schooling their children should, but as a society we should not condemn children based on a parents inability.  Without public schools, our class system would be far more entrenched with haves and have nots.  Just because you have an education, don't deny others to have one too.  Simply because you've made your status in life, don't deny other lineages the same privilege.</p><p>His "Six Lesson Schoolteacher" or "Seven Lesson Schoolteacher" are mostly a bunch of cynical comments revealing some of the poor aspects of public schools.  That does not make him right on a grander scale.  If that was what he was truly teaching, then he certainly didn't deserve any awards, and was a shame he didn't pass on that "Monongahela River" experience to as many as he could.  I gained my Monogahela River experience right there in the class room.  In the 3rd grade, I realized teachers didn't know everything when mine didn't understand the communicate rule of multiplication.  I had another in 6th when I realized the administrators couldn't comprehend a lacking of understanding in one area does not mean a lack of understanding in all areas.  Despite the failings of the school system, I was better for it, because my parents were not capable of offering me anything more than the most basic of arithmetic or reading.  I would have learned nothing about critical thinking as my parents didn't learn it themselves.</p><p>Yes public schools are horrible places, and function more as baby sitters than institutions of learning.  That doesn't mean they have no value or should be abolished.  It means that parents who are more capable of teaching their children, should.  Those of us who are beyond the ability of those places shouldn't abandon them because we've done better, but remember they offer a place to start, and a mechanism for the willing to move up the social/economic ladder.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've read his book , " Dumbing Us Down : The Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Schooling " .
He had some interesting points , but I also think he had a very strong libertarian bent .
He was the type of guy who would throw the baby out with the bathwater so to speak.My problem with libertarianism is that everyone I 've meet carry the banner are either the druggies or those who have already made theirs , and damned with everyone else ( yes it is a small sample , it is about 20 + people ) .
Not every parent is capable of teaching their children .
The public education system is a fine base-line , though I think better parents should recognize public schools as a base-line.Even if you agree with Mr. Gatto 's premise , not every child will have a " Monongahela river " experience with independent education .
Most children before public schools were capable of little more than farm work or factory work once they became adults .
Granted , one could argue , many children now are little capable of those jobs with public schools .
Yet , a public education does offer some children a chance to read , write , and do arithmetic better than their parents who never learned those skills .
Public schools may indoctrinate children with government propaganda , but many parents would indoctrinate their children with dogmas even more so.I believe parents who are comfortable home schooling their children should , but as a society we should not condemn children based on a parents inability .
Without public schools , our class system would be far more entrenched with haves and have nots .
Just because you have an education , do n't deny others to have one too .
Simply because you 've made your status in life , do n't deny other lineages the same privilege.His " Six Lesson Schoolteacher " or " Seven Lesson Schoolteacher " are mostly a bunch of cynical comments revealing some of the poor aspects of public schools .
That does not make him right on a grander scale .
If that was what he was truly teaching , then he certainly did n't deserve any awards , and was a shame he did n't pass on that " Monongahela River " experience to as many as he could .
I gained my Monogahela River experience right there in the class room .
In the 3rd grade , I realized teachers did n't know everything when mine did n't understand the communicate rule of multiplication .
I had another in 6th when I realized the administrators could n't comprehend a lacking of understanding in one area does not mean a lack of understanding in all areas .
Despite the failings of the school system , I was better for it , because my parents were not capable of offering me anything more than the most basic of arithmetic or reading .
I would have learned nothing about critical thinking as my parents did n't learn it themselves.Yes public schools are horrible places , and function more as baby sitters than institutions of learning .
That does n't mean they have no value or should be abolished .
It means that parents who are more capable of teaching their children , should .
Those of us who are beyond the ability of those places should n't abandon them because we 've done better , but remember they offer a place to start , and a mechanism for the willing to move up the social/economic ladder .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've read his book, "Dumbing Us Down:  The Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Schooling".
He had some interesting points, but I also think he had a very strong libertarian bent.
He was the type of guy who would throw the baby out with the bathwater so to speak.My problem with libertarianism is that everyone I've meet carry the banner are either the druggies or those who have already made theirs, and damned with everyone else (yes it is a small sample, it is about 20+ people).
Not every parent is capable of teaching their children.
The public education system is a fine base-line, though I think better parents should recognize public schools as a base-line.Even if you agree with Mr. Gatto's premise, not every child will have a "Monongahela river" experience with independent education.
Most children before public schools were capable of little more than farm work or factory work once they became adults.
Granted, one could argue, many children now are little capable of those jobs with public schools.
Yet, a public education does offer some children a chance to read, write, and do arithmetic better than their parents who never learned those skills.
Public schools may indoctrinate children with government propaganda, but many parents would indoctrinate their children with dogmas even more so.I believe parents who are comfortable home schooling their children should, but as a society we should not condemn children based on a parents inability.
Without public schools, our class system would be far more entrenched with haves and have nots.
Just because you have an education, don't deny others to have one too.
Simply because you've made your status in life, don't deny other lineages the same privilege.His "Six Lesson Schoolteacher" or "Seven Lesson Schoolteacher" are mostly a bunch of cynical comments revealing some of the poor aspects of public schools.
That does not make him right on a grander scale.
If that was what he was truly teaching, then he certainly didn't deserve any awards, and was a shame he didn't pass on that "Monongahela River" experience to as many as he could.
I gained my Monogahela River experience right there in the class room.
In the 3rd grade, I realized teachers didn't know everything when mine didn't understand the communicate rule of multiplication.
I had another in 6th when I realized the administrators couldn't comprehend a lacking of understanding in one area does not mean a lack of understanding in all areas.
Despite the failings of the school system, I was better for it, because my parents were not capable of offering me anything more than the most basic of arithmetic or reading.
I would have learned nothing about critical thinking as my parents didn't learn it themselves.Yes public schools are horrible places, and function more as baby sitters than institutions of learning.
That doesn't mean they have no value or should be abolished.
It means that parents who are more capable of teaching their children, should.
Those of us who are beyond the ability of those places shouldn't abandon them because we've done better, but remember they offer a place to start, and a mechanism for the willing to move up the social/economic ladder.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938402</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.31021738</id>
	<title>Re:I do it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265296200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm seeing these kinds of comments a lot on this site and I can't believe it.  High School was *great* for me, and I'm a total geek.  I guess maybe I just learned out to deal with people better than some of my fellow geeks here ever did, but I never had any of these problems.  You get pushed, you push back.  You learn the difference between friendly bashing and hateful bashing and act accordingly.  I was never short on friends in High School, and even people I wasn't friends with I'm generally on friendly terms now.  Sure, everyone knew me as a geek or a dork but I wasn't a shut in and I wasn't friendless.  Mostly my friends and I were known for being funny/fun guys.</p><p>Maybe the difference is I lean more towards Niels Bohr than Nikola Tesla, I don't really know.  Maybe I am just lucky (though seriously, the number of things where I've "just been lucky" is an extensive list at this point hence the skepticism) but I just don't see how if a kid is brought up right and taught how to take care of himself, he'll have any problems in High School.  Shit, the "bunner" group (the local religious wack-jobs, named so after their women's hair style; largely they seem to be Apostolics and sadly some of them are confirmed inbreds) here wasn't even that horrible to deal with for me.  Though you did have to watch yourself since their large families stuck together and if you did get in a fight you'd be fighting a dozen.</p><p>Anyways, regarding the disrespecting of authority and what not you seem to be forgetting that kids, specifically teenagers, are genetically inclined to rebel.  So no shit they act like they disrespect authority.  And no shit adolescent males boast and brag.  I'd have to say one was deficient socially if they didn't exaggerate SOME of the time.  All things in moderation of course, but its natural and normal for such behavior to be happening with a 15-19 year old male (I can't speak for women).</p><p>I wouldn't trade my High School experience for anything.  Definitely had some good times.  In fact, I really wish I went to a traditional college sometimes rather than a trade school for the same reasons I'm glad I didn't get home schooled.   For one labeled anti social and "hates people" I sure seem to enjoy being around them I guess.  When/if I have kids I hope they'll have as good a time as well, and that they'll learn as much about themselves as I did.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm seeing these kinds of comments a lot on this site and I ca n't believe it .
High School was * great * for me , and I 'm a total geek .
I guess maybe I just learned out to deal with people better than some of my fellow geeks here ever did , but I never had any of these problems .
You get pushed , you push back .
You learn the difference between friendly bashing and hateful bashing and act accordingly .
I was never short on friends in High School , and even people I was n't friends with I 'm generally on friendly terms now .
Sure , everyone knew me as a geek or a dork but I was n't a shut in and I was n't friendless .
Mostly my friends and I were known for being funny/fun guys.Maybe the difference is I lean more towards Niels Bohr than Nikola Tesla , I do n't really know .
Maybe I am just lucky ( though seriously , the number of things where I 've " just been lucky " is an extensive list at this point hence the skepticism ) but I just do n't see how if a kid is brought up right and taught how to take care of himself , he 'll have any problems in High School .
Shit , the " bunner " group ( the local religious wack-jobs , named so after their women 's hair style ; largely they seem to be Apostolics and sadly some of them are confirmed inbreds ) here was n't even that horrible to deal with for me .
Though you did have to watch yourself since their large families stuck together and if you did get in a fight you 'd be fighting a dozen.Anyways , regarding the disrespecting of authority and what not you seem to be forgetting that kids , specifically teenagers , are genetically inclined to rebel .
So no shit they act like they disrespect authority .
And no shit adolescent males boast and brag .
I 'd have to say one was deficient socially if they did n't exaggerate SOME of the time .
All things in moderation of course , but its natural and normal for such behavior to be happening with a 15-19 year old male ( I ca n't speak for women ) .I would n't trade my High School experience for anything .
Definitely had some good times .
In fact , I really wish I went to a traditional college sometimes rather than a trade school for the same reasons I 'm glad I did n't get home schooled .
For one labeled anti social and " hates people " I sure seem to enjoy being around them I guess .
When/if I have kids I hope they 'll have as good a time as well , and that they 'll learn as much about themselves as I did .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm seeing these kinds of comments a lot on this site and I can't believe it.
High School was *great* for me, and I'm a total geek.
I guess maybe I just learned out to deal with people better than some of my fellow geeks here ever did, but I never had any of these problems.
You get pushed, you push back.
You learn the difference between friendly bashing and hateful bashing and act accordingly.
I was never short on friends in High School, and even people I wasn't friends with I'm generally on friendly terms now.
Sure, everyone knew me as a geek or a dork but I wasn't a shut in and I wasn't friendless.
Mostly my friends and I were known for being funny/fun guys.Maybe the difference is I lean more towards Niels Bohr than Nikola Tesla, I don't really know.
Maybe I am just lucky (though seriously, the number of things where I've "just been lucky" is an extensive list at this point hence the skepticism) but I just don't see how if a kid is brought up right and taught how to take care of himself, he'll have any problems in High School.
Shit, the "bunner" group (the local religious wack-jobs, named so after their women's hair style; largely they seem to be Apostolics and sadly some of them are confirmed inbreds) here wasn't even that horrible to deal with for me.
Though you did have to watch yourself since their large families stuck together and if you did get in a fight you'd be fighting a dozen.Anyways, regarding the disrespecting of authority and what not you seem to be forgetting that kids, specifically teenagers, are genetically inclined to rebel.
So no shit they act like they disrespect authority.
And no shit adolescent males boast and brag.
I'd have to say one was deficient socially if they didn't exaggerate SOME of the time.
All things in moderation of course, but its natural and normal for such behavior to be happening with a 15-19 year old male (I can't speak for women).I wouldn't trade my High School experience for anything.
Definitely had some good times.
In fact, I really wish I went to a traditional college sometimes rather than a trade school for the same reasons I'm glad I didn't get home schooled.
For one labeled anti social and "hates people" I sure seem to enjoy being around them I guess.
When/if I have kids I hope they'll have as good a time as well, and that they'll learn as much about themselves as I did.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939348</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944710</id>
	<title>Re:No story here</title>
	<author>pudge</author>
	<datestamp>1264690200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Perhaps the point is that the kids aren't given a choice?</p></div><p>No, that is not the point at all.  If it were, it would apply equally to the parents and to the government: in the German system, the kids get no choice either, because the government decides.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>So first they get indoctrinated into a religion almost from birth</p></div><p>You say "indoctrinate," I say "teach."  Shrug.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>then their parents can exercise their 'right' to pull them out of school and any other situation where they might be exposed to outside thought</p></div><p>Shrug.  Whatever works for them.  I am tolerant.  Why aren't you?</p><p>Note that for my part, I am exposed to, and plan to expose my kids to, all sorts of other views.  This is the norm among homeschoolers.  What you apparently don't know is that most homeschoolers love knowledge and learning, especially learning about how different people think.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>By the time that kid moves out of home, they'll most likely no longer be capable of evaluating any information that conflicts with what they were taught.</p></div><p>No offense, but you're completely ignorant.  This is not representative of homeschooling at all.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Perhaps I'm missing the upsides to freedom of religion...</p></div><p>How about the fact that freedom of religion also gives atheists the right to NOT be religious?  Is that enough upside for you?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps the point is that the kids are n't given a choice ? No , that is not the point at all .
If it were , it would apply equally to the parents and to the government : in the German system , the kids get no choice either , because the government decides.So first they get indoctrinated into a religion almost from birthYou say " indoctrinate , " I say " teach .
" Shrug.then their parents can exercise their 'right ' to pull them out of school and any other situation where they might be exposed to outside thoughtShrug .
Whatever works for them .
I am tolerant .
Why are n't you ? Note that for my part , I am exposed to , and plan to expose my kids to , all sorts of other views .
This is the norm among homeschoolers .
What you apparently do n't know is that most homeschoolers love knowledge and learning , especially learning about how different people think.By the time that kid moves out of home , they 'll most likely no longer be capable of evaluating any information that conflicts with what they were taught.No offense , but you 're completely ignorant .
This is not representative of homeschooling at all.Perhaps I 'm missing the upsides to freedom of religion...How about the fact that freedom of religion also gives atheists the right to NOT be religious ?
Is that enough upside for you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps the point is that the kids aren't given a choice?No, that is not the point at all.
If it were, it would apply equally to the parents and to the government: in the German system, the kids get no choice either, because the government decides.So first they get indoctrinated into a religion almost from birthYou say "indoctrinate," I say "teach.
"  Shrug.then their parents can exercise their 'right' to pull them out of school and any other situation where they might be exposed to outside thoughtShrug.
Whatever works for them.
I am tolerant.
Why aren't you?Note that for my part, I am exposed to, and plan to expose my kids to, all sorts of other views.
This is the norm among homeschoolers.
What you apparently don't know is that most homeschoolers love knowledge and learning, especially learning about how different people think.By the time that kid moves out of home, they'll most likely no longer be capable of evaluating any information that conflicts with what they were taught.No offense, but you're completely ignorant.
This is not representative of homeschooling at all.Perhaps I'm missing the upsides to freedom of religion...How about the fact that freedom of religion also gives atheists the right to NOT be religious?
Is that enough upside for you?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941594</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944620</id>
	<title>Well, they are stupid religious fanatics ...</title>
	<author>GNUALMAFUERTE</author>
	<datestamp>1264689600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>FTFA: "They said textbooks presented ideas and language that conflicted with their Christian beliefs, including slang terms for sex acts and images of vampires and witches, while the school offered what they described as ethics lessons from Islam, Buddhism and other religions. The eldest son got into fights in school and the eldest daughter had trouble studying."</p><p>They obviously belong on the USA. What better place for outraged religious fanatics trying to screw up the life of their kids?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>FTFA : " They said textbooks presented ideas and language that conflicted with their Christian beliefs , including slang terms for sex acts and images of vampires and witches , while the school offered what they described as ethics lessons from Islam , Buddhism and other religions .
The eldest son got into fights in school and the eldest daughter had trouble studying .
" They obviously belong on the USA .
What better place for outraged religious fanatics trying to screw up the life of their kids ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FTFA: "They said textbooks presented ideas and language that conflicted with their Christian beliefs, including slang terms for sex acts and images of vampires and witches, while the school offered what they described as ethics lessons from Islam, Buddhism and other religions.
The eldest son got into fights in school and the eldest daughter had trouble studying.
"They obviously belong on the USA.
What better place for outraged religious fanatics trying to screw up the life of their kids?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937430</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>wisnoskij</author>
	<datestamp>1264706580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Completely agree, while many homeschoolers might be doing it to force Christianity onto their children.<br>
This basic human right also prevents a pro religion government from forcing your kids to learn from a Christian/Muslim/etc. viewpoint.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Completely agree , while many homeschoolers might be doing it to force Christianity onto their children .
This basic human right also prevents a pro religion government from forcing your kids to learn from a Christian/Muslim/etc .
viewpoint .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Completely agree, while many homeschoolers might be doing it to force Christianity onto their children.
This basic human right also prevents a pro religion government from forcing your kids to learn from a Christian/Muslim/etc.
viewpoint.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941594</id>
	<title>Re:No story here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264674600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Perhaps the point is that the kids aren't given a choice?</p><p>So first they get indoctrinated into a religion almost from birth, then their parents can exercise their 'right' to pull them out of school and any other situation where they might be exposed to outside thought. By the time that kid moves out of home, they'll most likely no longer be capable of evaluating any information that conflicts with what they were taught. Hopefully they can grow up to completely screw over their children as well.</p><p>Perhaps I'm missing the upsides to freedom of religion...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps the point is that the kids are n't given a choice ? So first they get indoctrinated into a religion almost from birth , then their parents can exercise their 'right ' to pull them out of school and any other situation where they might be exposed to outside thought .
By the time that kid moves out of home , they 'll most likely no longer be capable of evaluating any information that conflicts with what they were taught .
Hopefully they can grow up to completely screw over their children as well.Perhaps I 'm missing the upsides to freedom of religion.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps the point is that the kids aren't given a choice?So first they get indoctrinated into a religion almost from birth, then their parents can exercise their 'right' to pull them out of school and any other situation where they might be exposed to outside thought.
By the time that kid moves out of home, they'll most likely no longer be capable of evaluating any information that conflicts with what they were taught.
Hopefully they can grow up to completely screw over their children as well.Perhaps I'm missing the upsides to freedom of religion...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939516</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>null8</author>
	<datestamp>1264711560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I totally disagree. You do not own the child and if you are not able to teach(pass teaching exam) you are not good enough to teach your children math/other stuff that other children are taught at school. I think you have to look at it from a point of view of a child and not assert ownerschip of him, like with your property.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I totally disagree .
You do not own the child and if you are not able to teach ( pass teaching exam ) you are not good enough to teach your children math/other stuff that other children are taught at school .
I think you have to look at it from a point of view of a child and not assert ownerschip of him , like with your property .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I totally disagree.
You do not own the child and if you are not able to teach(pass teaching exam) you are not good enough to teach your children math/other stuff that other children are taught at school.
I think you have to look at it from a point of view of a child and not assert ownerschip of him, like with your property.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941088</id>
	<title>Re:So I presume we will immediately grant asylum..</title>
	<author>phantomfive</author>
	<datestamp>1264673040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You might have a point if you had a case example of someone from one of those countries who actually did get denied asylum based on the education system.  It is very possible no one ever tried that, and thus you are making things up.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You might have a point if you had a case example of someone from one of those countries who actually did get denied asylum based on the education system .
It is very possible no one ever tried that , and thus you are making things up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You might have a point if you had a case example of someone from one of those countries who actually did get denied asylum based on the education system.
It is very possible no one ever tried that, and thus you are making things up.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936524</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938456</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264708920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But think about the children! What about their rights?</p><p>The real answer is that, yes, government must be able to force you to send your kids to a government school, so that kids can be protected from crazy parents. At the same time, parents must be able to teach their kids whatever they want, so that kids can be protected from crazy governments.</p><p>Personally, I trust the kids to make a good decision most of the time after they've seen both.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But think about the children !
What about their rights ? The real answer is that , yes , government must be able to force you to send your kids to a government school , so that kids can be protected from crazy parents .
At the same time , parents must be able to teach their kids whatever they want , so that kids can be protected from crazy governments.Personally , I trust the kids to make a good decision most of the time after they 've seen both .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But think about the children!
What about their rights?The real answer is that, yes, government must be able to force you to send your kids to a government school, so that kids can be protected from crazy parents.
At the same time, parents must be able to teach their kids whatever they want, so that kids can be protected from crazy governments.Personally, I trust the kids to make a good decision most of the time after they've seen both.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940764</id>
	<title>Re:Hey Germany</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264672080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>We know we're friends and all now... and you've grown up quite a bit, but still... prooobably shouldn't be taking risks with the whole (human rights) thing. Won't look good.</p></div><p>Errm, Gitmo much? Executing children and retarded people?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We know we 're friends and all now... and you 've grown up quite a bit , but still... prooobably should n't be taking risks with the whole ( human rights ) thing .
Wo n't look good.Errm , Gitmo much ?
Executing children and retarded people ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We know we're friends and all now... and you've grown up quite a bit, but still... prooobably shouldn't be taking risks with the whole (human rights) thing.
Won't look good.Errm, Gitmo much?
Executing children and retarded people?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936504</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940206</id>
	<title>Re:No story here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264670580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not so cut and dry. This is borderline child-abuse and should be treated as such. Depriving your children of an education just because inconvenient facts don't corroborate with your bronze-age myths is asinine. The poor kid doesn't have a choice - his asshat parents are forcefully retarding his intellectual development.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not so cut and dry .
This is borderline child-abuse and should be treated as such .
Depriving your children of an education just because inconvenient facts do n't corroborate with your bronze-age myths is asinine .
The poor kid does n't have a choice - his asshat parents are forcefully retarding his intellectual development .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not so cut and dry.
This is borderline child-abuse and should be treated as such.
Depriving your children of an education just because inconvenient facts don't corroborate with your bronze-age myths is asinine.
The poor kid doesn't have a choice - his asshat parents are forcefully retarding his intellectual development.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937630</id>
	<title>Re:Government education.</title>
	<author>Q@</author>
	<datestamp>1264707000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Homeschooling was originally banned in Germany by Adolf Hitler in the 1930s, when he wanted to make sure that all German children were indoctrinated in the ways of the Nazi party. The Hitler Youth was the result.</p></div><p>This is utter BS. "Schulpflicht" (compulsory education) is german law since the 18th century (early 19th for some parts of germany). Google translated german wikipedia page here: <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&amp;sl=de&amp;tl=en&amp;u=http\%3A\%2F\%2Fde.wikipedia.org\%2Fwiki\%2FSchulpflicht" title="google.com" rel="nofollow">http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&amp;sl=de&amp;tl=en&amp;u=http\%3A\%2F\%2Fde.wikipedia.org\%2Fwiki\%2FSchulpflicht</a> [google.com]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Homeschooling was originally banned in Germany by Adolf Hitler in the 1930s , when he wanted to make sure that all German children were indoctrinated in the ways of the Nazi party .
The Hitler Youth was the result.This is utter BS .
" Schulpflicht " ( compulsory education ) is german law since the 18th century ( early 19th for some parts of germany ) .
Google translated german wikipedia page here : http : //translate.google.com/translate ? hl = en&amp;sl = de&amp;tl = en&amp;u = http \ % 3A \ % 2F \ % 2Fde.wikipedia.org \ % 2Fwiki \ % 2FSchulpflicht [ google.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Homeschooling was originally banned in Germany by Adolf Hitler in the 1930s, when he wanted to make sure that all German children were indoctrinated in the ways of the Nazi party.
The Hitler Youth was the result.This is utter BS.
"Schulpflicht" (compulsory education) is german law since the 18th century (early 19th for some parts of germany).
Google translated german wikipedia page here: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&amp;sl=de&amp;tl=en&amp;u=http\%3A\%2F\%2Fde.wikipedia.org\%2Fwiki\%2FSchulpflicht [google.com]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937152</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30953030</id>
	<title>Re:Homeschooling =/= fundamentalist schooling</title>
	<author>docwatson223</author>
	<datestamp>1264794300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>We're of the pickup-truck driving, Bible-thumping, gun toting, Far FAR FAR Right-wing voting homeschooling variety and have co-homeschoolers who are Pagans, Free-thinkers, Wiccans, and a few hard-core Rationalist families as well. We all get along just fine and we all beleive that we have an inherent right as parents to raise OUR kids in OUR way. The gamut runs from n00bs who 'school-at-home' to the experienced 'unschooling' family with 10 kids; one kid we know speaks fluent Old Norse - he wanted to speka, read, and write Viking poetry) - he was just accepted to a middle ages history program.

I think homschooling does for my kids what my gifted and talented program did for me when I was growing up - my old school district elimnated it in favor of 'assimilation' - and I have to say that if you want to make the sacrifice, work very, very hard, and give your kids the BEST education you can, it's homeschooling FTW!</htmltext>
<tokenext>We 're of the pickup-truck driving , Bible-thumping , gun toting , Far FAR FAR Right-wing voting homeschooling variety and have co-homeschoolers who are Pagans , Free-thinkers , Wiccans , and a few hard-core Rationalist families as well .
We all get along just fine and we all beleive that we have an inherent right as parents to raise OUR kids in OUR way .
The gamut runs from n00bs who 'school-at-home ' to the experienced 'unschooling ' family with 10 kids ; one kid we know speaks fluent Old Norse - he wanted to speka , read , and write Viking poetry ) - he was just accepted to a middle ages history program .
I think homschooling does for my kids what my gifted and talented program did for me when I was growing up - my old school district elimnated it in favor of 'assimilation ' - and I have to say that if you want to make the sacrifice , work very , very hard , and give your kids the BEST education you can , it 's homeschooling FTW !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We're of the pickup-truck driving, Bible-thumping, gun toting, Far FAR FAR Right-wing voting homeschooling variety and have co-homeschoolers who are Pagans, Free-thinkers, Wiccans, and a few hard-core Rationalist families as well.
We all get along just fine and we all beleive that we have an inherent right as parents to raise OUR kids in OUR way.
The gamut runs from n00bs who 'school-at-home' to the experienced 'unschooling' family with 10 kids; one kid we know speaks fluent Old Norse - he wanted to speka, read, and write Viking poetry) - he was just accepted to a middle ages history program.
I think homschooling does for my kids what my gifted and talented program did for me when I was growing up - my old school district elimnated it in favor of 'assimilation' - and I have to say that if you want to make the sacrifice, work very, very hard, and give your kids the BEST education you can, it's homeschooling FTW!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936876</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30943408</id>
	<title>Well.</title>
	<author>man\_ls</author>
	<datestamp>1264681680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sounds like the Germans have it right. Having been a victim of homeschooling myself for 7 years, I think it should be illegal. I received a good education (better, arguably, than I would have received in a proper school) but got dumped out into high school without the vaguest idea how to socialize with others. It took me all of high school and into college to learn the social rules I was deliberately sheltered from and it caused me extreme psychological distress. My parents even made considerable extra effort to ensure I'd have friends, etc. that I'd meet at "homeschooling support groups" and such. It just wasn't enough: eight hours per week of socializing with kids equally maladapted as I was just isn't going to cut it.</p><p>It's been over a decade since this all ended, and I am still incredibly angry at my parents for the whole thing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds like the Germans have it right .
Having been a victim of homeschooling myself for 7 years , I think it should be illegal .
I received a good education ( better , arguably , than I would have received in a proper school ) but got dumped out into high school without the vaguest idea how to socialize with others .
It took me all of high school and into college to learn the social rules I was deliberately sheltered from and it caused me extreme psychological distress .
My parents even made considerable extra effort to ensure I 'd have friends , etc .
that I 'd meet at " homeschooling support groups " and such .
It just was n't enough : eight hours per week of socializing with kids equally maladapted as I was just is n't going to cut it.It 's been over a decade since this all ended , and I am still incredibly angry at my parents for the whole thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds like the Germans have it right.
Having been a victim of homeschooling myself for 7 years, I think it should be illegal.
I received a good education (better, arguably, than I would have received in a proper school) but got dumped out into high school without the vaguest idea how to socialize with others.
It took me all of high school and into college to learn the social rules I was deliberately sheltered from and it caused me extreme psychological distress.
My parents even made considerable extra effort to ensure I'd have friends, etc.
that I'd meet at "homeschooling support groups" and such.
It just wasn't enough: eight hours per week of socializing with kids equally maladapted as I was just isn't going to cut it.It's been over a decade since this all ended, and I am still incredibly angry at my parents for the whole thing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937270</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264706160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh please.  Your children are not your personal property to shape in your image.  You cannot beat them, and you cannot brainwash them.  They have rights, too.  And everyone else is going to be affected by your retarded parenting decisions down the road, because we're all part of a society and you can't escape that.  Well, unless you live in the mountains away from all other humans.  If you do that, well, I don't care what you do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh please .
Your children are not your personal property to shape in your image .
You can not beat them , and you can not brainwash them .
They have rights , too .
And everyone else is going to be affected by your retarded parenting decisions down the road , because we 're all part of a society and you ca n't escape that .
Well , unless you live in the mountains away from all other humans .
If you do that , well , I do n't care what you do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh please.
Your children are not your personal property to shape in your image.
You cannot beat them, and you cannot brainwash them.
They have rights, too.
And everyone else is going to be affected by your retarded parenting decisions down the road, because we're all part of a society and you can't escape that.
Well, unless you live in the mountains away from all other humans.
If you do that, well, I don't care what you do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937464</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264706640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>
<p>Maybe there are a lot of "ultra fanatic religious" nuts who homeschool their children.</p><p>But there are also a LOT of homeschoolers that are doing it simply to help their children get real educations.</p><p>We associate with many other homeshooling families in our area and they range across a good spectrum of religious beliefs:  protestant, catholic, mormon, buddhist, agnostic and atheist.  Once a week the families get together for some social time and larger group learning. The adults and kids get along great, and have a great time doing fun, active learning.  If anything it is the atheists that are the most fervent in bringing up religion during the co-op learning activities.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe there are a lot of " ultra fanatic religious " nuts who homeschool their children.But there are also a LOT of homeschoolers that are doing it simply to help their children get real educations.We associate with many other homeshooling families in our area and they range across a good spectrum of religious beliefs : protestant , catholic , mormon , buddhist , agnostic and atheist .
Once a week the families get together for some social time and larger group learning .
The adults and kids get along great , and have a great time doing fun , active learning .
If anything it is the atheists that are the most fervent in bringing up religion during the co-op learning activities .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Maybe there are a lot of "ultra fanatic religious" nuts who homeschool their children.But there are also a LOT of homeschoolers that are doing it simply to help their children get real educations.We associate with many other homeshooling families in our area and they range across a good spectrum of religious beliefs:  protestant, catholic, mormon, buddhist, agnostic and atheist.
Once a week the families get together for some social time and larger group learning.
The adults and kids get along great, and have a great time doing fun, active learning.
If anything it is the atheists that are the most fervent in bringing up religion during the co-op learning activities.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936606</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30943000</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>Opportunist</author>
	<datestamp>1264679580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is actually a good, sensible way to do it. I only have my problems with homeschooling with the intent to shut out all of that "negative" influence, i.e. to limit the child's knowledge to whatever the parents want them to know, shutting out anything beyond that. It does invariably lead to their kids being improperly prepared for life.</p><p>Life is not a black and white world, and neither a sheltered one. I have my problems with the whole concept of keeping our kids from experiencing anything possibly considered "harmful" until they're 18 and then simply release them on their own. They will invariably fail. They have no means to protect against what's waiting for them. It's like keeping them in an aseptic world until they are 18 then confront them with all the germs there are in the world. They will get sick and probably die, simply because they never had a chance to acquire the necessary protection means to defend against it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is actually a good , sensible way to do it .
I only have my problems with homeschooling with the intent to shut out all of that " negative " influence , i.e .
to limit the child 's knowledge to whatever the parents want them to know , shutting out anything beyond that .
It does invariably lead to their kids being improperly prepared for life.Life is not a black and white world , and neither a sheltered one .
I have my problems with the whole concept of keeping our kids from experiencing anything possibly considered " harmful " until they 're 18 and then simply release them on their own .
They will invariably fail .
They have no means to protect against what 's waiting for them .
It 's like keeping them in an aseptic world until they are 18 then confront them with all the germs there are in the world .
They will get sick and probably die , simply because they never had a chance to acquire the necessary protection means to defend against it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is actually a good, sensible way to do it.
I only have my problems with homeschooling with the intent to shut out all of that "negative" influence, i.e.
to limit the child's knowledge to whatever the parents want them to know, shutting out anything beyond that.
It does invariably lead to their kids being improperly prepared for life.Life is not a black and white world, and neither a sheltered one.
I have my problems with the whole concept of keeping our kids from experiencing anything possibly considered "harmful" until they're 18 and then simply release them on their own.
They will invariably fail.
They have no means to protect against what's waiting for them.
It's like keeping them in an aseptic world until they are 18 then confront them with all the germs there are in the world.
They will get sick and probably die, simply because they never had a chance to acquire the necessary protection means to defend against it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937464</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938284</id>
	<title>Eheh</title>
	<author>SmallFurryCreature</author>
	<datestamp>1264708440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And so you are forcing your kids to learn what you want them to learn.
</p><p>What freedom do your kids have?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And so you are forcing your kids to learn what you want them to learn .
What freedom do your kids have ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And so you are forcing your kids to learn what you want them to learn.
What freedom do your kids have?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939788</id>
	<title>Re:Hey Germany</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264669320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What if you object to the mass dumbing down and don't want your children to be equal with mediocrity, but want to give them a chance at their full potential?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What if you object to the mass dumbing down and do n't want your children to be equal with mediocrity , but want to give them a chance at their full potential ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What if you object to the mass dumbing down and don't want your children to be equal with mediocrity, but want to give them a chance at their full potential?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938350</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264708620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; I totally disagree. It's the basic right to raise your children with your own views and values</p><p>I'm not sure about that. I think there are alot of kids that need to be "protected" from their parents. There are alot of broken homes and whako parents out there.<br>What if the parents where alcoholics, child abusers, fanatics... and decide their children should be tought at home? Then the kids will have no chance of escaping or<br>communicating their situation as they would be effectively cut off any outside influences.</p><p>School is not just about teaching, but also about monitoring children. Making sure they are developing well and detecting any social problems they might have with themselves or at home.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; I totally disagree .
It 's the basic right to raise your children with your own views and valuesI 'm not sure about that .
I think there are alot of kids that need to be " protected " from their parents .
There are alot of broken homes and whako parents out there.What if the parents where alcoholics , child abusers , fanatics... and decide their children should be tought at home ?
Then the kids will have no chance of escaping orcommunicating their situation as they would be effectively cut off any outside influences.School is not just about teaching , but also about monitoring children .
Making sure they are developing well and detecting any social problems they might have with themselves or at home .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; I totally disagree.
It's the basic right to raise your children with your own views and valuesI'm not sure about that.
I think there are alot of kids that need to be "protected" from their parents.
There are alot of broken homes and whako parents out there.What if the parents where alcoholics, child abusers, fanatics... and decide their children should be tought at home?
Then the kids will have no chance of escaping orcommunicating their situation as they would be effectively cut off any outside influences.School is not just about teaching, but also about monitoring children.
Making sure they are developing well and detecting any social problems they might have with themselves or at home.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939682</id>
	<title>Re:No story here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264712160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No it is not. The children have a right too -and parents who have no toher goal but preventing that must be told otherwise.<br>They do have the right, even the duty, to tell their kids what they believe is right. But they do have a duty as well to make them see, understand and appreciate other ideas.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No it is not .
The children have a right too -and parents who have no toher goal but preventing that must be told otherwise.They do have the right , even the duty , to tell their kids what they believe is right .
But they do have a duty as well to make them see , understand and appreciate other ideas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No it is not.
The children have a right too -and parents who have no toher goal but preventing that must be told otherwise.They do have the right, even the duty, to tell their kids what they believe is right.
But they do have a duty as well to make them see, understand and appreciate other ideas.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938950</id>
	<title>Re:Check //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher\_Paoli</title>
	<author>Itninja</author>
	<datestamp>1264710060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I got a friend who also 'graduate high school' at 15 via home schooling through American School of Correspondence. I often brags about how ridiculously easy it was to game the system. Basically every test is open book. And since it was all done at his home, his 'book' was Google. I says he would literally get an entire years worth of schoolwork done in a month or two. Biggest benefit for him is being able to put on his resume he 'graduated high school at 15'. People automatically assume he's way ahead of the curve intellectually (he certainly is not) and it has helped his career. He has been offered opportunities that others his age only dream of. Pretty good angle actually.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I got a friend who also 'graduate high school ' at 15 via home schooling through American School of Correspondence .
I often brags about how ridiculously easy it was to game the system .
Basically every test is open book .
And since it was all done at his home , his 'book ' was Google .
I says he would literally get an entire years worth of schoolwork done in a month or two .
Biggest benefit for him is being able to put on his resume he 'graduated high school at 15' .
People automatically assume he 's way ahead of the curve intellectually ( he certainly is not ) and it has helped his career .
He has been offered opportunities that others his age only dream of .
Pretty good angle actually .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I got a friend who also 'graduate high school' at 15 via home schooling through American School of Correspondence.
I often brags about how ridiculously easy it was to game the system.
Basically every test is open book.
And since it was all done at his home, his 'book' was Google.
I says he would literally get an entire years worth of schoolwork done in a month or two.
Biggest benefit for him is being able to put on his resume he 'graduated high school at 15'.
People automatically assume he's way ahead of the curve intellectually (he certainly is not) and it has helped his career.
He has been offered opportunities that others his age only dream of.
Pretty good angle actually.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937352</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936502</id>
	<title>No story here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264704120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>FTFA:</p><p><i>In 2006 the Romeikes pulled their children out of a state school in Bissingen, Germany, in protest of what they deemed an anti-Christian curriculum.</i></p><p><i>They said textbooks presented ideas and language that conflicted with their Christian beliefs, including slang terms for sex acts and images of vampires and witches, while the school offered what they described as ethics lessons from Islam, Buddhism and other religions.</i></p><p>Well, <b>obviously</b> other religions can't offer any ethical guidance, and exposing the kids to them will clearly cause them to hate Christianity. Better not even expose them to other thoughts! And the best place to go for that? Here in the US.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>FTFA : In 2006 the Romeikes pulled their children out of a state school in Bissingen , Germany , in protest of what they deemed an anti-Christian curriculum.They said textbooks presented ideas and language that conflicted with their Christian beliefs , including slang terms for sex acts and images of vampires and witches , while the school offered what they described as ethics lessons from Islam , Buddhism and other religions.Well , obviously other religions ca n't offer any ethical guidance , and exposing the kids to them will clearly cause them to hate Christianity .
Better not even expose them to other thoughts !
And the best place to go for that ?
Here in the US .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FTFA:In 2006 the Romeikes pulled their children out of a state school in Bissingen, Germany, in protest of what they deemed an anti-Christian curriculum.They said textbooks presented ideas and language that conflicted with their Christian beliefs, including slang terms for sex acts and images of vampires and witches, while the school offered what they described as ethics lessons from Islam, Buddhism and other religions.Well, obviously other religions can't offer any ethical guidance, and exposing the kids to them will clearly cause them to hate Christianity.
Better not even expose them to other thoughts!
And the best place to go for that?
Here in the US.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939008</id>
	<title>Home-medicating a human right, too?</title>
	<author>kleinesRaedchen</author>
	<datestamp>1264710180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>From time to time we hear news about parents who do not want to get their children medically treated, even if they suffer of serious diseases. This is a human right, too, isn't it? The doctors in the hospital are all quacks, aren't they?

I find the whole concept of parents determining childrens faith and beliefs questionable. Transporting values by giving a good example, ok. But forcing membership in a religion by dubbing the little lads before they even know what's going on? That's perverse.</htmltext>
<tokenext>From time to time we hear news about parents who do not want to get their children medically treated , even if they suffer of serious diseases .
This is a human right , too , is n't it ?
The doctors in the hospital are all quacks , are n't they ?
I find the whole concept of parents determining childrens faith and beliefs questionable .
Transporting values by giving a good example , ok. But forcing membership in a religion by dubbing the little lads before they even know what 's going on ?
That 's perverse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From time to time we hear news about parents who do not want to get their children medically treated, even if they suffer of serious diseases.
This is a human right, too, isn't it?
The doctors in the hospital are all quacks, aren't they?
I find the whole concept of parents determining childrens faith and beliefs questionable.
Transporting values by giving a good example, ok. But forcing membership in a religion by dubbing the little lads before they even know what's going on?
That's perverse.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937588</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>MBGMorden</author>
	<datestamp>1264706940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That and racists.  Here in the deep south racism is very alive and well.  After our first year of high school a new larger school was completed and our (mostly white) school was merged with 2 more (mostly black) schools.  The school was completed, I went, nothing was really wrong.  However, about 2 dozen or so families resorted to home schooling, or sent their kids to private schools.  Very often it was girls, and the #1 reason I heard at the time was "I don't want mah girl around all them n****r boys!".</p><p>While I'm sure it occasionally happens, the image of the home schooled kid being trained into an uber genius by their over-achieving parents is largely a myth.  Every time I've seen it employed was by some ignorant group who wanted to be able to force feed bigoted (and in some cases flat out wrong) ideas down their kid's throat without the rest of society being around to provide an opposing view.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That and racists .
Here in the deep south racism is very alive and well .
After our first year of high school a new larger school was completed and our ( mostly white ) school was merged with 2 more ( mostly black ) schools .
The school was completed , I went , nothing was really wrong .
However , about 2 dozen or so families resorted to home schooling , or sent their kids to private schools .
Very often it was girls , and the # 1 reason I heard at the time was " I do n't want mah girl around all them n * * * * r boys !
" .While I 'm sure it occasionally happens , the image of the home schooled kid being trained into an uber genius by their over-achieving parents is largely a myth .
Every time I 've seen it employed was by some ignorant group who wanted to be able to force feed bigoted ( and in some cases flat out wrong ) ideas down their kid 's throat without the rest of society being around to provide an opposing view .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That and racists.
Here in the deep south racism is very alive and well.
After our first year of high school a new larger school was completed and our (mostly white) school was merged with 2 more (mostly black) schools.
The school was completed, I went, nothing was really wrong.
However, about 2 dozen or so families resorted to home schooling, or sent their kids to private schools.
Very often it was girls, and the #1 reason I heard at the time was "I don't want mah girl around all them n****r boys!
".While I'm sure it occasionally happens, the image of the home schooled kid being trained into an uber genius by their over-achieving parents is largely a myth.
Every time I've seen it employed was by some ignorant group who wanted to be able to force feed bigoted (and in some cases flat out wrong) ideas down their kid's throat without the rest of society being around to provide an opposing view.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936606</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941204</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>izomiac</author>
	<datestamp>1264673340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I would suppose the difference in opinion is rooted in the concept of a child.  At one end of the spectrum people view children as possessions of the parents and on the other they are viewed as fully autonomous individuals.  Homeschooling as a right meshes better with people on the former end of the spectrum, whereas the latter end would view education to be a basic right that should be handled by the best (unbiased) professionals the state can provide.  Obviously few people are on the extremes, but there seems to be considerable variation as to where people stand.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would suppose the difference in opinion is rooted in the concept of a child .
At one end of the spectrum people view children as possessions of the parents and on the other they are viewed as fully autonomous individuals .
Homeschooling as a right meshes better with people on the former end of the spectrum , whereas the latter end would view education to be a basic right that should be handled by the best ( unbiased ) professionals the state can provide .
Obviously few people are on the extremes , but there seems to be considerable variation as to where people stand .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would suppose the difference in opinion is rooted in the concept of a child.
At one end of the spectrum people view children as possessions of the parents and on the other they are viewed as fully autonomous individuals.
Homeschooling as a right meshes better with people on the former end of the spectrum, whereas the latter end would view education to be a basic right that should be handled by the best (unbiased) professionals the state can provide.
Obviously few people are on the extremes, but there seems to be considerable variation as to where people stand.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939798</id>
	<title>Re:No story here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264669320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Children aren't property.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Children are n't property .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Children aren't property.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937916</id>
	<title>Re:Religious Nutjobs</title>
	<author>Jesus\_666</author>
	<datestamp>1264707660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's the one thing the parents did right (well, apart from actually teaching the right subject matter): They sent one of their children to get his GCSE and he passed. Of course it's only a GCSE, which means he won't be able to get a good job or attend university; that would require a higher-level certificate called Abitur (he could spend some time at school to upgrade to the Abitur, though) and given that he passed the GCSE with very good grades, the Abitur seems to have been more appropriate. But still, at least they did that.<br>
<br>
Of course in most Federal Lands the Abitur requires you to take a number of tests spread out over two years, which of course neccessitates spending two years at a school, and they were already loathe to have their child spend the one semester neccessary to attain the GCSE.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's the one thing the parents did right ( well , apart from actually teaching the right subject matter ) : They sent one of their children to get his GCSE and he passed .
Of course it 's only a GCSE , which means he wo n't be able to get a good job or attend university ; that would require a higher-level certificate called Abitur ( he could spend some time at school to upgrade to the Abitur , though ) and given that he passed the GCSE with very good grades , the Abitur seems to have been more appropriate .
But still , at least they did that .
Of course in most Federal Lands the Abitur requires you to take a number of tests spread out over two years , which of course neccessitates spending two years at a school , and they were already loathe to have their child spend the one semester neccessary to attain the GCSE .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's the one thing the parents did right (well, apart from actually teaching the right subject matter): They sent one of their children to get his GCSE and he passed.
Of course it's only a GCSE, which means he won't be able to get a good job or attend university; that would require a higher-level certificate called Abitur (he could spend some time at school to upgrade to the Abitur, though) and given that he passed the GCSE with very good grades, the Abitur seems to have been more appropriate.
But still, at least they did that.
Of course in most Federal Lands the Abitur requires you to take a number of tests spread out over two years, which of course neccessitates spending two years at a school, and they were already loathe to have their child spend the one semester neccessary to attain the GCSE.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936736</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939440</id>
	<title>what nut job you are then</title>
	<author>carlcmc</author>
	<datestamp>1264711380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>" but it does not in my mind give one free license to program children with it."<br><br>Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it. Our world would not have decended into so much evil as it has if parents taught their children of Jesus' love for them and taught them to demonstrate love for their neighbors. Are you really suggesting that there is something wrong with trying to raise one's children to love God and love their neighbors as themselves?</htmltext>
<tokenext>" but it does not in my mind give one free license to program children with it .
" Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it .
Our world would not have decended into so much evil as it has if parents taught their children of Jesus ' love for them and taught them to demonstrate love for their neighbors .
Are you really suggesting that there is something wrong with trying to raise one 's children to love God and love their neighbors as themselves ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>" but it does not in my mind give one free license to program children with it.
"Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it.
Our world would not have decended into so much evil as it has if parents taught their children of Jesus' love for them and taught them to demonstrate love for their neighbors.
Are you really suggesting that there is something wrong with trying to raise one's children to love God and love their neighbors as themselves?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936736</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30946724</id>
	<title>Re:Hey Germany</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264797420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>We know we're friends and all now... and you've grown up quite a bit, but still... prooobably shouldn't be taking risks with the whole (human rights) thing. Won't look good.</p></div><p>Hey USA.  We know you're trying your best, and you used to be fairly grown up, but still.... probably shouldn't be slagging off countries about human rights when the first (and most important) article in their basic law (equivalent to a constitution) says "Human dignity is inviolable".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We know we 're friends and all now... and you 've grown up quite a bit , but still... prooobably should n't be taking risks with the whole ( human rights ) thing .
Wo n't look good.Hey USA .
We know you 're trying your best , and you used to be fairly grown up , but still.... probably should n't be slagging off countries about human rights when the first ( and most important ) article in their basic law ( equivalent to a constitution ) says " Human dignity is inviolable " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We know we're friends and all now... and you've grown up quite a bit, but still... prooobably shouldn't be taking risks with the whole (human rights) thing.
Won't look good.Hey USA.
We know you're trying your best, and you used to be fairly grown up, but still.... probably shouldn't be slagging off countries about human rights when the first (and most important) article in their basic law (equivalent to a constitution) says "Human dignity is inviolable".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936504</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30951802</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>Sally Forth</author>
	<datestamp>1264789620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, homeschooling is not allowed even if you are an examined teacher. Every single homeschooling family in Germany is operating either secretly or under direct threat of fines or jail time.
<br> <br>
In addition, the claim of criminal negligence was made despite the children all excelling at the state-administered tests. Basically, in Germany, educational negligence is defined as not having your child in a public or State-Approved private school, regardless of his or her actual achievement level.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , homeschooling is not allowed even if you are an examined teacher .
Every single homeschooling family in Germany is operating either secretly or under direct threat of fines or jail time .
In addition , the claim of criminal negligence was made despite the children all excelling at the state-administered tests .
Basically , in Germany , educational negligence is defined as not having your child in a public or State-Approved private school , regardless of his or her actual achievement level .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, homeschooling is not allowed even if you are an examined teacher.
Every single homeschooling family in Germany is operating either secretly or under direct threat of fines or jail time.
In addition, the claim of criminal negligence was made despite the children all excelling at the state-administered tests.
Basically, in Germany, educational negligence is defined as not having your child in a public or State-Approved private school, regardless of his or her actual achievement level.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937274</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30953108</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>docwatson223</author>
	<datestamp>1264794600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...to prove you can fit the mold of a 'State-educated Teacher' and that 'all eis ordnung!'

My, how things haven't changed there.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...to prove you can fit the mold of a 'State-educated Teacher ' and that 'all eis ordnung !
' My , how things have n't changed there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...to prove you can fit the mold of a 'State-educated Teacher' and that 'all eis ordnung!
'

My, how things haven't changed there.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936958</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939968</id>
	<title>Re:No story here</title>
	<author>BlackFingolfin</author>
	<datestamp>1264669980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What about the rights of the children?  I don't think that parents "own" their children, and should be allowed to do with them in whatever way they want. Sure, parents should take care of their kids until they are old enough to really make well-informed own decisions.
</p><p>The idea behind enforcing that all children are sent to a school (which by the way, includes many alternate school forms, not just the regular state schools, as many people here claim incorrectly) is that this way, all kids are ensured a chance to get suitable education. And moreover, to have a chance to learn how to socialize with other people, too. To learn to live with people who have different believes and opinions side by side, and respect them. In my class, there were christians, atheists, muslims. I grew up knowing that there are many different kinds of people out there, and that yet they are (mostly<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;) normal people you can have great fun with and like. Not enemies, as many religions paint any non-believers, sadly.
</p><p>Maybe the current way of forcing all kids in Germany to visit some kind of school is not the best. But then I also don't believe that allowing parents to isolate their children and to indoctrinate them is a good idea, either -- no matter whether it is orthodox Christianity, radical Islam, zealous Science-believe, or the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. The foundation of a democracy is mutual understanding and a willingness to cooperate with each other, and I feel that's more important than granting a universal home schooling right, with all its pros and cons.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What about the rights of the children ?
I do n't think that parents " own " their children , and should be allowed to do with them in whatever way they want .
Sure , parents should take care of their kids until they are old enough to really make well-informed own decisions .
The idea behind enforcing that all children are sent to a school ( which by the way , includes many alternate school forms , not just the regular state schools , as many people here claim incorrectly ) is that this way , all kids are ensured a chance to get suitable education .
And moreover , to have a chance to learn how to socialize with other people , too .
To learn to live with people who have different believes and opinions side by side , and respect them .
In my class , there were christians , atheists , muslims .
I grew up knowing that there are many different kinds of people out there , and that yet they are ( mostly ; ) normal people you can have great fun with and like .
Not enemies , as many religions paint any non-believers , sadly .
Maybe the current way of forcing all kids in Germany to visit some kind of school is not the best .
But then I also do n't believe that allowing parents to isolate their children and to indoctrinate them is a good idea , either -- no matter whether it is orthodox Christianity , radical Islam , zealous Science-believe , or the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster .
The foundation of a democracy is mutual understanding and a willingness to cooperate with each other , and I feel that 's more important than granting a universal home schooling right , with all its pros and cons .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What about the rights of the children?
I don't think that parents "own" their children, and should be allowed to do with them in whatever way they want.
Sure, parents should take care of their kids until they are old enough to really make well-informed own decisions.
The idea behind enforcing that all children are sent to a school (which by the way, includes many alternate school forms, not just the regular state schools, as many people here claim incorrectly) is that this way, all kids are ensured a chance to get suitable education.
And moreover, to have a chance to learn how to socialize with other people, too.
To learn to live with people who have different believes and opinions side by side, and respect them.
In my class, there were christians, atheists, muslims.
I grew up knowing that there are many different kinds of people out there, and that yet they are (mostly ;) normal people you can have great fun with and like.
Not enemies, as many religions paint any non-believers, sadly.
Maybe the current way of forcing all kids in Germany to visit some kind of school is not the best.
But then I also don't believe that allowing parents to isolate their children and to indoctrinate them is a good idea, either -- no matter whether it is orthodox Christianity, radical Islam, zealous Science-believe, or the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
The foundation of a democracy is mutual understanding and a willingness to cooperate with each other, and I feel that's more important than granting a universal home schooling right, with all its pros and cons.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936862</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264705080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Homeschooling is in no way a human right.</i></p><p>Neither is state-funded healthcare, if you want to get technical.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Homeschooling is in no way a human right.Neither is state-funded healthcare , if you want to get technical .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Homeschooling is in no way a human right.Neither is state-funded healthcare, if you want to get technical.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944388</id>
	<title>Re:Public "education" isn't</title>
	<author>CodeBuster</author>
	<datestamp>1264687980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The result is that the current system is excellent for almost everyone, except for kids that are slow and for kids that are too fast.</p></div><p>Of course, you do realize that a disproportionate number of the later are represented here on Slashdot? Perhaps knowing this will enable you to better appreciate the bitter experiences that many of us had with our primary school educations here in the United States. It does tend to bias our opinions on the subjects of teaching and education in any case.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The result is that the current system is excellent for almost everyone , except for kids that are slow and for kids that are too fast.Of course , you do realize that a disproportionate number of the later are represented here on Slashdot ?
Perhaps knowing this will enable you to better appreciate the bitter experiences that many of us had with our primary school educations here in the United States .
It does tend to bias our opinions on the subjects of teaching and education in any case .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The result is that the current system is excellent for almost everyone, except for kids that are slow and for kids that are too fast.Of course, you do realize that a disproportionate number of the later are represented here on Slashdot?
Perhaps knowing this will enable you to better appreciate the bitter experiences that many of us had with our primary school educations here in the United States.
It does tend to bias our opinions on the subjects of teaching and education in any case.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940288</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938568</id>
	<title>Re:No lack of bigotry on this thread.</title>
	<author>The Archon V2.0</author>
	<datestamp>1264709220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Now look, I've refrained from profanity, calling you Nazis, and typing in all caps.</p></div><p>YOUR ALL NAZI FAGEOTS.</p><p>

(Sorry, but this is Slashdot. We have standards to maintain.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Now look , I 've refrained from profanity , calling you Nazis , and typing in all caps.YOUR ALL NAZI FAGEOTS .
( Sorry , but this is Slashdot .
We have standards to maintain .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now look, I've refrained from profanity, calling you Nazis, and typing in all caps.YOUR ALL NAZI FAGEOTS.
(Sorry, but this is Slashdot.
We have standards to maintain.
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937176</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937698</id>
	<title>Re:Hey Germany</title>
	<author>tenco</author>
	<datestamp>1264707120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>prooobably shouldn't be taking risks with the whole (human rights) thing. Won't look good.</p></div><p>Maybe you can show us the paragraph in the declaration where it says that parents have a right to homeschool their children.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>prooobably should n't be taking risks with the whole ( human rights ) thing .
Wo n't look good.Maybe you can show us the paragraph in the declaration where it says that parents have a right to homeschool their children .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>prooobably shouldn't be taking risks with the whole (human rights) thing.
Won't look good.Maybe you can show us the paragraph in the declaration where it says that parents have a right to homeschool their children.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936504</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936876</id>
	<title>Homeschooling =/= fundamentalist schooling</title>
	<author>AndyAndyAndyAndy</author>
	<datestamp>1264705140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Alright, I didn't think it would come to this on slashdot, but this must be understood.<br>
<br>
For most families, homeschooling provides an option to help with constant travel (including military families), family changes, or just plain old bad local schools. I have a few friends who were home-schooled through HS, and they are some of the smartest and quickest people I know. In public school, classes move as fast as the slowest student (or just pass him/her by), at home, if you get it, you move on quickly and have plenty of time to be creative/play sports/do whatever.<br> <br>
This stigma against homeschooling has GOT to go already. Not all homeschoolers are teaching racial bias or inaccurate science. Not by far.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Alright , I did n't think it would come to this on slashdot , but this must be understood .
For most families , homeschooling provides an option to help with constant travel ( including military families ) , family changes , or just plain old bad local schools .
I have a few friends who were home-schooled through HS , and they are some of the smartest and quickest people I know .
In public school , classes move as fast as the slowest student ( or just pass him/her by ) , at home , if you get it , you move on quickly and have plenty of time to be creative/play sports/do whatever .
This stigma against homeschooling has GOT to go already .
Not all homeschoolers are teaching racial bias or inaccurate science .
Not by far .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Alright, I didn't think it would come to this on slashdot, but this must be understood.
For most families, homeschooling provides an option to help with constant travel (including military families), family changes, or just plain old bad local schools.
I have a few friends who were home-schooled through HS, and they are some of the smartest and quickest people I know.
In public school, classes move as fast as the slowest student (or just pass him/her by), at home, if you get it, you move on quickly and have plenty of time to be creative/play sports/do whatever.
This stigma against homeschooling has GOT to go already.
Not all homeschoolers are teaching racial bias or inaccurate science.
Not by far.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942432</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>Belial6</author>
	<datestamp>1264677420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ahhh... The whole, "send your kids to public school or you daughter will get pregnant" argument.  That isn't even a good argument.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ahhh... The whole , " send your kids to public school or you daughter will get pregnant " argument .
That is n't even a good argument .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ahhh... The whole, "send your kids to public school or you daughter will get pregnant" argument.
That isn't even a good argument.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938882</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939800</id>
	<title>Perspective of a former home-schooler</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264669320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Since there seems to be quite a bit of talk about the advantages and disadvantages of home-schooling, I decided to offer my input as someone home-schooled from 1st-12th.  I will be the first to admit that I a did not turn out the most "socially adept" individual on the plant, but I sincerely doubt that home-schooling is the greatest factor in that problem.  Growing up as an introverted child, home-schooling gave me the chance to fall in love with learning outside of the scorn and rejection of my peers.  I know that I would have gotten far more social interaction in public school, but I doubt that much of it would have been beneficial.  I know that I am going mostly on representations of the treatment of nerdly social rejects, but I grew up in one of the roughest school districts in town and I doubt that my hypothetical fellow students would respect my disposition.  My guess is that I would have grown up bullied and mocked, and that I would not have the calm environment were learning was encouraged, and my thinking could expand beyond what I was given.</p><p>I will admit that my parents had religious motivations in their choice to home-school me, but I was not raised in a way that squashed my ability to think beyond the bounds of the religious traditions given by my parents.  Instead, I learned why they believe what they believe, and that not everyone believe as they do.  I have a deep respect for the decision that they made, and I believe that it really was for my benefit.</p><p>The main point that I think most people misunderstand home-schooling parents on is that of the well being of their children.  Those who oppose home-schooling do so on the basis of the well-being of the children, and those who support it do so for the well being of the children.  The question becomes, who knows what is better for the children?  Is it the state, trying to ensure that millions of children are provided with a proper education?  Or is it the parent, that is willing to take the time and effort to see that their child is educated in a way that they see fit?  I know that this is a horribly skewed measure, but what does my response say about my parent's education of me?  Is it lacking in language skills, displaying a suffocation of outside culture deemed "Unchristian"?  Is it close-minded, reflexively rejected new ideas?  Have I not been exposed to the classic literature of our culture?  I will admit my strangeness, and a certain social ineptitude, but I would doubt that home-schooling is more at fault than natural disposition.  In home-schooling, I was able to find my strengths and weaknesses, then learn more of the graces of social interaction when I left for college.  I am of the opinion that this allowed my to become a better person, unscarred by the society I grew up in.  If you have read this far, I would like to thank you for withstanding my somewhat thick prose, and I will ask you to open your mind just a little bit wider, and try to see things from the side of both those inside, and those outside.  For one cannot truely understand the debate until you know where both sides are coming from.</p><p>(If you're curious, I'm getting a masters in molecular biology)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Since there seems to be quite a bit of talk about the advantages and disadvantages of home-schooling , I decided to offer my input as someone home-schooled from 1st-12th .
I will be the first to admit that I a did not turn out the most " socially adept " individual on the plant , but I sincerely doubt that home-schooling is the greatest factor in that problem .
Growing up as an introverted child , home-schooling gave me the chance to fall in love with learning outside of the scorn and rejection of my peers .
I know that I would have gotten far more social interaction in public school , but I doubt that much of it would have been beneficial .
I know that I am going mostly on representations of the treatment of nerdly social rejects , but I grew up in one of the roughest school districts in town and I doubt that my hypothetical fellow students would respect my disposition .
My guess is that I would have grown up bullied and mocked , and that I would not have the calm environment were learning was encouraged , and my thinking could expand beyond what I was given.I will admit that my parents had religious motivations in their choice to home-school me , but I was not raised in a way that squashed my ability to think beyond the bounds of the religious traditions given by my parents .
Instead , I learned why they believe what they believe , and that not everyone believe as they do .
I have a deep respect for the decision that they made , and I believe that it really was for my benefit.The main point that I think most people misunderstand home-schooling parents on is that of the well being of their children .
Those who oppose home-schooling do so on the basis of the well-being of the children , and those who support it do so for the well being of the children .
The question becomes , who knows what is better for the children ?
Is it the state , trying to ensure that millions of children are provided with a proper education ?
Or is it the parent , that is willing to take the time and effort to see that their child is educated in a way that they see fit ?
I know that this is a horribly skewed measure , but what does my response say about my parent 's education of me ?
Is it lacking in language skills , displaying a suffocation of outside culture deemed " Unchristian " ?
Is it close-minded , reflexively rejected new ideas ?
Have I not been exposed to the classic literature of our culture ?
I will admit my strangeness , and a certain social ineptitude , but I would doubt that home-schooling is more at fault than natural disposition .
In home-schooling , I was able to find my strengths and weaknesses , then learn more of the graces of social interaction when I left for college .
I am of the opinion that this allowed my to become a better person , unscarred by the society I grew up in .
If you have read this far , I would like to thank you for withstanding my somewhat thick prose , and I will ask you to open your mind just a little bit wider , and try to see things from the side of both those inside , and those outside .
For one can not truely understand the debate until you know where both sides are coming from .
( If you 're curious , I 'm getting a masters in molecular biology )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since there seems to be quite a bit of talk about the advantages and disadvantages of home-schooling, I decided to offer my input as someone home-schooled from 1st-12th.
I will be the first to admit that I a did not turn out the most "socially adept" individual on the plant, but I sincerely doubt that home-schooling is the greatest factor in that problem.
Growing up as an introverted child, home-schooling gave me the chance to fall in love with learning outside of the scorn and rejection of my peers.
I know that I would have gotten far more social interaction in public school, but I doubt that much of it would have been beneficial.
I know that I am going mostly on representations of the treatment of nerdly social rejects, but I grew up in one of the roughest school districts in town and I doubt that my hypothetical fellow students would respect my disposition.
My guess is that I would have grown up bullied and mocked, and that I would not have the calm environment were learning was encouraged, and my thinking could expand beyond what I was given.I will admit that my parents had religious motivations in their choice to home-school me, but I was not raised in a way that squashed my ability to think beyond the bounds of the religious traditions given by my parents.
Instead, I learned why they believe what they believe, and that not everyone believe as they do.
I have a deep respect for the decision that they made, and I believe that it really was for my benefit.The main point that I think most people misunderstand home-schooling parents on is that of the well being of their children.
Those who oppose home-schooling do so on the basis of the well-being of the children, and those who support it do so for the well being of the children.
The question becomes, who knows what is better for the children?
Is it the state, trying to ensure that millions of children are provided with a proper education?
Or is it the parent, that is willing to take the time and effort to see that their child is educated in a way that they see fit?
I know that this is a horribly skewed measure, but what does my response say about my parent's education of me?
Is it lacking in language skills, displaying a suffocation of outside culture deemed "Unchristian"?
Is it close-minded, reflexively rejected new ideas?
Have I not been exposed to the classic literature of our culture?
I will admit my strangeness, and a certain social ineptitude, but I would doubt that home-schooling is more at fault than natural disposition.
In home-schooling, I was able to find my strengths and weaknesses, then learn more of the graces of social interaction when I left for college.
I am of the opinion that this allowed my to become a better person, unscarred by the society I grew up in.
If you have read this far, I would like to thank you for withstanding my somewhat thick prose, and I will ask you to open your mind just a little bit wider, and try to see things from the side of both those inside, and those outside.
For one cannot truely understand the debate until you know where both sides are coming from.
(If you're curious, I'm getting a masters in molecular biology)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937684</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>brian0918</author>
	<datestamp>1264707120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What a crazy state society is in when people believe it is "activism" to claim a person has an innate right to their lives and their values, free from force.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What a crazy state society is in when people believe it is " activism " to claim a person has an innate right to their lives and their values , free from force .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What a crazy state society is in when people believe it is "activism" to claim a person has an innate right to their lives and their values, free from force.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944270</id>
	<title>Re:Public "education" isn't</title>
	<author>khallow</author>
	<datestamp>1264687080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>My problem with libertarianism is that everyone I've meet carry the banner are either the druggies or those who have already made theirs</p></div><p>In other words, it is people systematically oppressed by arbitrary government law and/or who are highly productive. So what's wrong with them?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Just because you have an education, don't deny others to have one too. Simply because you've made your status in life, don't deny other lineages the same privilege.</p></div><p>What does this have to do with public education? Public education increasingly fails to educate. My view is that we need to make substantial changes in the education system. I prefer school vouchers, but there might be other approaches that would work. At the least, I'd get rid of teacher unions and tenure, and base pay on performance.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>My problem with libertarianism is that everyone I 've meet carry the banner are either the druggies or those who have already made theirsIn other words , it is people systematically oppressed by arbitrary government law and/or who are highly productive .
So what 's wrong with them ? Just because you have an education , do n't deny others to have one too .
Simply because you 've made your status in life , do n't deny other lineages the same privilege.What does this have to do with public education ?
Public education increasingly fails to educate .
My view is that we need to make substantial changes in the education system .
I prefer school vouchers , but there might be other approaches that would work .
At the least , I 'd get rid of teacher unions and tenure , and base pay on performance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My problem with libertarianism is that everyone I've meet carry the banner are either the druggies or those who have already made theirsIn other words, it is people systematically oppressed by arbitrary government law and/or who are highly productive.
So what's wrong with them?Just because you have an education, don't deny others to have one too.
Simply because you've made your status in life, don't deny other lineages the same privilege.What does this have to do with public education?
Public education increasingly fails to educate.
My view is that we need to make substantial changes in the education system.
I prefer school vouchers, but there might be other approaches that would work.
At the least, I'd get rid of teacher unions and tenure, and base pay on performance.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942634</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937152</id>
	<title>Government education.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264705920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Homeschooling was originally banned in Germany by Adolf Hitler in the 1930s, when he wanted to make sure that all German children were indoctrinated in the ways of the Nazi party. The Hitler Youth was the result. Government schooling isn't necessarily a bad thing, but if a government is promoting/enforcing a radical worldview, most if not all of the kids in the school system will pick it up. Like evolution.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Homeschooling was originally banned in Germany by Adolf Hitler in the 1930s , when he wanted to make sure that all German children were indoctrinated in the ways of the Nazi party .
The Hitler Youth was the result .
Government schooling is n't necessarily a bad thing , but if a government is promoting/enforcing a radical worldview , most if not all of the kids in the school system will pick it up .
Like evolution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Homeschooling was originally banned in Germany by Adolf Hitler in the 1930s, when he wanted to make sure that all German children were indoctrinated in the ways of the Nazi party.
The Hitler Youth was the result.
Government schooling isn't necessarily a bad thing, but if a government is promoting/enforcing a radical worldview, most if not all of the kids in the school system will pick it up.
Like evolution.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938018</id>
	<title>Re:Hey Germany</title>
	<author>RedBear</author>
	<datestamp>1264707900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You know, Slashdot should really have a method where we could give truly informative posters a "tip" in the form of micro-payments. Every post like yours helps clarify the issue involved, focus the discussion, and probably saves thousands of readers a lot of wasted time reading comments that end up having nothing to do with the actual issue. Thank you.</p><p>Now, from a more informed viewpoint, I can say that I can't believe the US granted asylum to people who were completely unwilling to simply have their homeschooled children take the standard tests that allow the state to recognize that a child/citizen has been given a suitable education. This isn't about the homeschooling at all. I also can't believe that the rules here in the US will allow these homeschooled children to actually graduate without taking the standardized American tests which allow the US to recognize that a child/citizen has been given a suitable education.</p><p>These are the kind of people that create dangerously ignorant or brainwashed offspring and end up damaging the fabric of our society. They give a bad name to both homeschooling and freedom of religion.</p><p>Just to throw a small voice of reason into the mix for those who equate homeschooling with religious nuttery, I myself was homeschooled for a few years in grade school for reasons that had nothing whatsoever to do with religion. In fact, my family isn't religious in any particular way. I was homeschooled because my ADD (which remained undiagnosed for another 20 years or so) made it virtually impossible for me to pay attention and learn anything in public school classrooms full of children and other distractions. I would literally go to school every day in first grade and come home knowing no more than I did in the morning. My brain was much more interested in the stuff outside the window and the antics of the other children than in paying attention to the rote instruction from the teacher. At the time, ADD was relatively unknown. All my mother knew was that I was going to school and failing to learn, despite being apparently intelligent enough to do so quite easily. So she pulled me out and homeschooled me for a few years.</p><p>Oddly, to this day I often feel like I learned more in those three years of homeschooling about basic grammar, history, word origins and several other areas than I did in the remaining several years of public education. The stuff I learned in homeschool, I remember. Public school was mostly a blur where we got slowly coached on the minimum information to pass the tests and progress to the next grade. I got placed in advanced math and English programs when I went back to public school, simply based on the fact that I had been homeschooled for a few years. That suggests that school admins recognize that homeschooling is often superior to public schooling. Which doesn't speak highly of the public school system in general.</p><p>So, just remember that homeschooling, while often used by ultra-religious parents as a platform for brainwashing their children, is not inherently a bad thing. Especially in the early years where a good solid foundation is needed for a child to do well later on in school, and life.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You know , Slashdot should really have a method where we could give truly informative posters a " tip " in the form of micro-payments .
Every post like yours helps clarify the issue involved , focus the discussion , and probably saves thousands of readers a lot of wasted time reading comments that end up having nothing to do with the actual issue .
Thank you.Now , from a more informed viewpoint , I can say that I ca n't believe the US granted asylum to people who were completely unwilling to simply have their homeschooled children take the standard tests that allow the state to recognize that a child/citizen has been given a suitable education .
This is n't about the homeschooling at all .
I also ca n't believe that the rules here in the US will allow these homeschooled children to actually graduate without taking the standardized American tests which allow the US to recognize that a child/citizen has been given a suitable education.These are the kind of people that create dangerously ignorant or brainwashed offspring and end up damaging the fabric of our society .
They give a bad name to both homeschooling and freedom of religion.Just to throw a small voice of reason into the mix for those who equate homeschooling with religious nuttery , I myself was homeschooled for a few years in grade school for reasons that had nothing whatsoever to do with religion .
In fact , my family is n't religious in any particular way .
I was homeschooled because my ADD ( which remained undiagnosed for another 20 years or so ) made it virtually impossible for me to pay attention and learn anything in public school classrooms full of children and other distractions .
I would literally go to school every day in first grade and come home knowing no more than I did in the morning .
My brain was much more interested in the stuff outside the window and the antics of the other children than in paying attention to the rote instruction from the teacher .
At the time , ADD was relatively unknown .
All my mother knew was that I was going to school and failing to learn , despite being apparently intelligent enough to do so quite easily .
So she pulled me out and homeschooled me for a few years.Oddly , to this day I often feel like I learned more in those three years of homeschooling about basic grammar , history , word origins and several other areas than I did in the remaining several years of public education .
The stuff I learned in homeschool , I remember .
Public school was mostly a blur where we got slowly coached on the minimum information to pass the tests and progress to the next grade .
I got placed in advanced math and English programs when I went back to public school , simply based on the fact that I had been homeschooled for a few years .
That suggests that school admins recognize that homeschooling is often superior to public schooling .
Which does n't speak highly of the public school system in general.So , just remember that homeschooling , while often used by ultra-religious parents as a platform for brainwashing their children , is not inherently a bad thing .
Especially in the early years where a good solid foundation is needed for a child to do well later on in school , and life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know, Slashdot should really have a method where we could give truly informative posters a "tip" in the form of micro-payments.
Every post like yours helps clarify the issue involved, focus the discussion, and probably saves thousands of readers a lot of wasted time reading comments that end up having nothing to do with the actual issue.
Thank you.Now, from a more informed viewpoint, I can say that I can't believe the US granted asylum to people who were completely unwilling to simply have their homeschooled children take the standard tests that allow the state to recognize that a child/citizen has been given a suitable education.
This isn't about the homeschooling at all.
I also can't believe that the rules here in the US will allow these homeschooled children to actually graduate without taking the standardized American tests which allow the US to recognize that a child/citizen has been given a suitable education.These are the kind of people that create dangerously ignorant or brainwashed offspring and end up damaging the fabric of our society.
They give a bad name to both homeschooling and freedom of religion.Just to throw a small voice of reason into the mix for those who equate homeschooling with religious nuttery, I myself was homeschooled for a few years in grade school for reasons that had nothing whatsoever to do with religion.
In fact, my family isn't religious in any particular way.
I was homeschooled because my ADD (which remained undiagnosed for another 20 years or so) made it virtually impossible for me to pay attention and learn anything in public school classrooms full of children and other distractions.
I would literally go to school every day in first grade and come home knowing no more than I did in the morning.
My brain was much more interested in the stuff outside the window and the antics of the other children than in paying attention to the rote instruction from the teacher.
At the time, ADD was relatively unknown.
All my mother knew was that I was going to school and failing to learn, despite being apparently intelligent enough to do so quite easily.
So she pulled me out and homeschooled me for a few years.Oddly, to this day I often feel like I learned more in those three years of homeschooling about basic grammar, history, word origins and several other areas than I did in the remaining several years of public education.
The stuff I learned in homeschool, I remember.
Public school was mostly a blur where we got slowly coached on the minimum information to pass the tests and progress to the next grade.
I got placed in advanced math and English programs when I went back to public school, simply based on the fact that I had been homeschooled for a few years.
That suggests that school admins recognize that homeschooling is often superior to public schooling.
Which doesn't speak highly of the public school system in general.So, just remember that homeschooling, while often used by ultra-religious parents as a platform for brainwashing their children, is not inherently a bad thing.
Especially in the early years where a good solid foundation is needed for a child to do well later on in school, and life.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941338</id>
	<title>Re:I do it</title>
	<author>dheltzel</author>
	<datestamp>1264673760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I homeschool(ed) my 3 kids (older 2 are in college) and I have to tell you the whole "socialization" thing is a red herring. It's the most common argument against homeschooling, I think because it's the only one that seems rational. My kids, and every other homeschooled kid I've ever met, are extremely well socialized. Parents know this is an important part of growing up, and if they somehow were to forget it, perfect strangers will remind them every time they mention that they homeschool.</p><p>One of the most interesting aspects of the homeschool movement is how well the kids perform (as a group) compared to any other method. The parents like to think this is because their kids are just way above average, but is that really likely? The reason of course, is that homeschool families self-select for highly involved parents, which I'm sure is the #1 criteria for the quality of a child's education. The average homeschool parents spend more time educating their kids than most people spend at a full time job. If you did that, and left your kids in public school, they'd be top performers there too. It's ironic that the homeschool opposition goes to such great lengths to make it tough to homeschool, they are really helping without realizing it, as they are ensuring that everyone who homeschools will succeed.</p><p>I harbor no ill will against public school teachers, they have a tough, thankless job. And I know many parents simply can't (or don't want to) homeschool, and they should not feel bad at all. But it would be a terrible loss not to have homeschooling as a viable option, and spending time and money to discourage or otherwise inhibit homeschoolers is just pathetic. I am very glad I homeschooled all my children, and would certainly do it again (and my kids would agree if you asked them). It's a facet of parenting that most parents don't get to experience.</p><p>I suspect that this attitude against homeschooling in Germany is a part of their culture of conformance that we just don't have as strongly here. I like to think that I've given my kids a richer experience in life than they otherwise would have and I think that will make them better people.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I homeschool ( ed ) my 3 kids ( older 2 are in college ) and I have to tell you the whole " socialization " thing is a red herring .
It 's the most common argument against homeschooling , I think because it 's the only one that seems rational .
My kids , and every other homeschooled kid I 've ever met , are extremely well socialized .
Parents know this is an important part of growing up , and if they somehow were to forget it , perfect strangers will remind them every time they mention that they homeschool.One of the most interesting aspects of the homeschool movement is how well the kids perform ( as a group ) compared to any other method .
The parents like to think this is because their kids are just way above average , but is that really likely ?
The reason of course , is that homeschool families self-select for highly involved parents , which I 'm sure is the # 1 criteria for the quality of a child 's education .
The average homeschool parents spend more time educating their kids than most people spend at a full time job .
If you did that , and left your kids in public school , they 'd be top performers there too .
It 's ironic that the homeschool opposition goes to such great lengths to make it tough to homeschool , they are really helping without realizing it , as they are ensuring that everyone who homeschools will succeed.I harbor no ill will against public school teachers , they have a tough , thankless job .
And I know many parents simply ca n't ( or do n't want to ) homeschool , and they should not feel bad at all .
But it would be a terrible loss not to have homeschooling as a viable option , and spending time and money to discourage or otherwise inhibit homeschoolers is just pathetic .
I am very glad I homeschooled all my children , and would certainly do it again ( and my kids would agree if you asked them ) .
It 's a facet of parenting that most parents do n't get to experience.I suspect that this attitude against homeschooling in Germany is a part of their culture of conformance that we just do n't have as strongly here .
I like to think that I 've given my kids a richer experience in life than they otherwise would have and I think that will make them better people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I homeschool(ed) my 3 kids (older 2 are in college) and I have to tell you the whole "socialization" thing is a red herring.
It's the most common argument against homeschooling, I think because it's the only one that seems rational.
My kids, and every other homeschooled kid I've ever met, are extremely well socialized.
Parents know this is an important part of growing up, and if they somehow were to forget it, perfect strangers will remind them every time they mention that they homeschool.One of the most interesting aspects of the homeschool movement is how well the kids perform (as a group) compared to any other method.
The parents like to think this is because their kids are just way above average, but is that really likely?
The reason of course, is that homeschool families self-select for highly involved parents, which I'm sure is the #1 criteria for the quality of a child's education.
The average homeschool parents spend more time educating their kids than most people spend at a full time job.
If you did that, and left your kids in public school, they'd be top performers there too.
It's ironic that the homeschool opposition goes to such great lengths to make it tough to homeschool, they are really helping without realizing it, as they are ensuring that everyone who homeschools will succeed.I harbor no ill will against public school teachers, they have a tough, thankless job.
And I know many parents simply can't (or don't want to) homeschool, and they should not feel bad at all.
But it would be a terrible loss not to have homeschooling as a viable option, and spending time and money to discourage or otherwise inhibit homeschoolers is just pathetic.
I am very glad I homeschooled all my children, and would certainly do it again (and my kids would agree if you asked them).
It's a facet of parenting that most parents don't get to experience.I suspect that this attitude against homeschooling in Germany is a part of their culture of conformance that we just don't have as strongly here.
I like to think that I've given my kids a richer experience in life than they otherwise would have and I think that will make them better people.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936622</id>
	<title>In other words...</title>
	<author>ilsaloving</author>
	<datestamp>1264704480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The family has money to burn why not have them spend it in the US?</p><p>I have difficulty believing that this qualifies under persecution.  Every country has it's own particulars and peculiarities when it comes to things.  It's not like they are being treated unfairly and denied basic human rights.  Oh wait... the judge feels that letting the parents choose to educate their children themselves is a 'basic human right'.</p><p>Considering the quality of education in North America versus the quality of education in Europe, I consider the Judge's decision to be laughable.  I'd take a publicly mandated education from a European country over *anything* provided by the US.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The family has money to burn why not have them spend it in the US ? I have difficulty believing that this qualifies under persecution .
Every country has it 's own particulars and peculiarities when it comes to things .
It 's not like they are being treated unfairly and denied basic human rights .
Oh wait... the judge feels that letting the parents choose to educate their children themselves is a 'basic human right'.Considering the quality of education in North America versus the quality of education in Europe , I consider the Judge 's decision to be laughable .
I 'd take a publicly mandated education from a European country over * anything * provided by the US .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The family has money to burn why not have them spend it in the US?I have difficulty believing that this qualifies under persecution.
Every country has it's own particulars and peculiarities when it comes to things.
It's not like they are being treated unfairly and denied basic human rights.
Oh wait... the judge feels that letting the parents choose to educate their children themselves is a 'basic human right'.Considering the quality of education in North America versus the quality of education in Europe, I consider the Judge's decision to be laughable.
I'd take a publicly mandated education from a European country over *anything* provided by the US.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940814</id>
	<title>Re:No story here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264672200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I assume the German constitution contains clauses for the social rights of education and the protection of family life as well, in accordance to the European Convention of Human Rights. The educational rights of children are not violating the protection of family life as the children are enjoying their right to education during the day and providing the possibility for family life after school. The protection of family life has its exceptions, among them the economic benefit of the country, public order, crime, safety and others rights, all requiring a law to enable the circumvention of the right for protected family life.<br>
&nbsp; On the other hand the Convention states that the right to education is implemented so that the parents have the right to ensure their children are educated respecting the religious and philosophical convictions of the parents. The German state seems to have overstepped their rights for this very reason. The right way to settle the problem would be first to challenge the German authorities through their legal system while consistently arguing for the violation against human rights. After that the case would be admissible to the European Court of Human Rights, which in the case of ruling for the parents, could enforce the German authorities to provide a different solution for the problem at hand.<br>
&nbsp; As the parents have a clear legal way to settle their problem, the idea for gaining a refugee status on the basis of it feels, simply put, stupid.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I assume the German constitution contains clauses for the social rights of education and the protection of family life as well , in accordance to the European Convention of Human Rights .
The educational rights of children are not violating the protection of family life as the children are enjoying their right to education during the day and providing the possibility for family life after school .
The protection of family life has its exceptions , among them the economic benefit of the country , public order , crime , safety and others rights , all requiring a law to enable the circumvention of the right for protected family life .
  On the other hand the Convention states that the right to education is implemented so that the parents have the right to ensure their children are educated respecting the religious and philosophical convictions of the parents .
The German state seems to have overstepped their rights for this very reason .
The right way to settle the problem would be first to challenge the German authorities through their legal system while consistently arguing for the violation against human rights .
After that the case would be admissible to the European Court of Human Rights , which in the case of ruling for the parents , could enforce the German authorities to provide a different solution for the problem at hand .
  As the parents have a clear legal way to settle their problem , the idea for gaining a refugee status on the basis of it feels , simply put , stupid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I assume the German constitution contains clauses for the social rights of education and the protection of family life as well, in accordance to the European Convention of Human Rights.
The educational rights of children are not violating the protection of family life as the children are enjoying their right to education during the day and providing the possibility for family life after school.
The protection of family life has its exceptions, among them the economic benefit of the country, public order, crime, safety and others rights, all requiring a law to enable the circumvention of the right for protected family life.
  On the other hand the Convention states that the right to education is implemented so that the parents have the right to ensure their children are educated respecting the religious and philosophical convictions of the parents.
The German state seems to have overstepped their rights for this very reason.
The right way to settle the problem would be first to challenge the German authorities through their legal system while consistently arguing for the violation against human rights.
After that the case would be admissible to the European Court of Human Rights, which in the case of ruling for the parents, could enforce the German authorities to provide a different solution for the problem at hand.
  As the parents have a clear legal way to settle their problem, the idea for gaining a refugee status on the basis of it feels, simply put, stupid.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940800</id>
	<title>Don't let the door hit you in the *ss</title>
	<author>proslack</author>
	<datestamp>1264672200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>As a German, I can only say "good riddance" to these people. Unfortunately for the Americans, that's two more votes for Palin in 2012, or whatever carbon copy is nominated by the Republicans.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a German , I can only say " good riddance " to these people .
Unfortunately for the Americans , that 's two more votes for Palin in 2012 , or whatever carbon copy is nominated by the Republicans .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a German, I can only say "good riddance" to these people.
Unfortunately for the Americans, that's two more votes for Palin in 2012, or whatever carbon copy is nominated by the Republicans.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30957722</id>
	<title>Re:Hey Germany</title>
	<author>Sally Forth</author>
	<datestamp>1264772160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, homeschooled families in Germany do often have their children take the standard tests. The authorities, despite seeing high scores on these tests, still insist that the children be put in school. Thousands of dollars of fines is considered the lightest punishment the homeschooling parents face. More likely, armed policemen will show up at their house to take the children to school or simply remove the children from their home.
<br> <br>
The Busekros' had one child removed from the home in a surprise raid by police and subjected to a battery of psychological testing. Despite the result being quite positive and normal, she was placed in a foster home. Katharina Plett was not even given the chance to prove that her children were doing well. She was simply arrested and thrown in jail. Jurgen and Rosemarie Dudek were told at their trial that they were doing a good job of homeschooling, but they were going to be fined anyways, because the law allowed no less. This was on appeal. Their first trial resulted in a three-month prison sentence for both parents.
<br> <br>
Germany isn't just one of those kind, gentle places that only seek the slightest bit of proof that a homeschooling family is doing a decent job. It's downright brutal.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , homeschooled families in Germany do often have their children take the standard tests .
The authorities , despite seeing high scores on these tests , still insist that the children be put in school .
Thousands of dollars of fines is considered the lightest punishment the homeschooling parents face .
More likely , armed policemen will show up at their house to take the children to school or simply remove the children from their home .
The Busekros ' had one child removed from the home in a surprise raid by police and subjected to a battery of psychological testing .
Despite the result being quite positive and normal , she was placed in a foster home .
Katharina Plett was not even given the chance to prove that her children were doing well .
She was simply arrested and thrown in jail .
Jurgen and Rosemarie Dudek were told at their trial that they were doing a good job of homeschooling , but they were going to be fined anyways , because the law allowed no less .
This was on appeal .
Their first trial resulted in a three-month prison sentence for both parents .
Germany is n't just one of those kind , gentle places that only seek the slightest bit of proof that a homeschooling family is doing a decent job .
It 's downright brutal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, homeschooled families in Germany do often have their children take the standard tests.
The authorities, despite seeing high scores on these tests, still insist that the children be put in school.
Thousands of dollars of fines is considered the lightest punishment the homeschooling parents face.
More likely, armed policemen will show up at their house to take the children to school or simply remove the children from their home.
The Busekros' had one child removed from the home in a surprise raid by police and subjected to a battery of psychological testing.
Despite the result being quite positive and normal, she was placed in a foster home.
Katharina Plett was not even given the chance to prove that her children were doing well.
She was simply arrested and thrown in jail.
Jurgen and Rosemarie Dudek were told at their trial that they were doing a good job of homeschooling, but they were going to be fined anyways, because the law allowed no less.
This was on appeal.
Their first trial resulted in a three-month prison sentence for both parents.
Germany isn't just one of those kind, gentle places that only seek the slightest bit of proof that a homeschooling family is doing a decent job.
It's downright brutal.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938018</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942806</id>
	<title>In my experience</title>
	<author>cbryant0907</author>
	<datestamp>1264678800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Most states in the US do require homeschool students to meet certain test standards. For instance, in NY, one of the more undfriendly states to homeschooling, we were required to inform our school district of an intent to homeschool. They in turn had to respond by a certain date and inform us what would be required of us if we wished to do so. If they did not respond, or they responded after that date, the homeschool family had no responsibility to interact further with the school district except to inform them of their intent to homeschool when the next year came around. Several of my friends in the next town over had school districts that didn't pay any attention to them. They still took end of the year tests, but chose to use California's tougher standardized tests rather than New York's sadly out of date ones. My school district did take an interest in us, and we took yearly standardized tests with a certified teacher at the end of every school year. Both my sister and I began testing at a post-high school level by the eighth grade.
<br>
<br>
For those who protest that religious reasons are an unacceptable reason to homeschool your children, I must respectfully disagree. Imagine, if you will, that you live in a society that is ruled by fundamental Islamsics, Hindus, Catholics, Christians, Scientology or anyone else that might attempt to force beliefs and teaching on you or your children that you don't agree with. (They do exist...) Would you not wish to teach your children at home? I believe that the choice to bring a child up with religious training (or non-religious) is still a right. (At least in the US. Correct me if I'm wrong.) I think that in very few instances should the government have the power to tell us how we can live our lives or interact with our family and run our homes. I do think that in cases of physical abuse the law is very clear. But when you start calling down emotional and mental abuse, the accusations are not as clear. The guidelines are much fuzzier. I've heard a lot of people call any kind of religious training brainwashing and abuse. I don't deny that in rare cases it does happen, but I think you ride a very fine line when you attempt to legally condemn an entire worldview.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Most states in the US do require homeschool students to meet certain test standards .
For instance , in NY , one of the more undfriendly states to homeschooling , we were required to inform our school district of an intent to homeschool .
They in turn had to respond by a certain date and inform us what would be required of us if we wished to do so .
If they did not respond , or they responded after that date , the homeschool family had no responsibility to interact further with the school district except to inform them of their intent to homeschool when the next year came around .
Several of my friends in the next town over had school districts that did n't pay any attention to them .
They still took end of the year tests , but chose to use California 's tougher standardized tests rather than New York 's sadly out of date ones .
My school district did take an interest in us , and we took yearly standardized tests with a certified teacher at the end of every school year .
Both my sister and I began testing at a post-high school level by the eighth grade .
For those who protest that religious reasons are an unacceptable reason to homeschool your children , I must respectfully disagree .
Imagine , if you will , that you live in a society that is ruled by fundamental Islamsics , Hindus , Catholics , Christians , Scientology or anyone else that might attempt to force beliefs and teaching on you or your children that you do n't agree with .
( They do exist... ) Would you not wish to teach your children at home ?
I believe that the choice to bring a child up with religious training ( or non-religious ) is still a right .
( At least in the US .
Correct me if I 'm wrong .
) I think that in very few instances should the government have the power to tell us how we can live our lives or interact with our family and run our homes .
I do think that in cases of physical abuse the law is very clear .
But when you start calling down emotional and mental abuse , the accusations are not as clear .
The guidelines are much fuzzier .
I 've heard a lot of people call any kind of religious training brainwashing and abuse .
I do n't deny that in rare cases it does happen , but I think you ride a very fine line when you attempt to legally condemn an entire worldview .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most states in the US do require homeschool students to meet certain test standards.
For instance, in NY, one of the more undfriendly states to homeschooling, we were required to inform our school district of an intent to homeschool.
They in turn had to respond by a certain date and inform us what would be required of us if we wished to do so.
If they did not respond, or they responded after that date, the homeschool family had no responsibility to interact further with the school district except to inform them of their intent to homeschool when the next year came around.
Several of my friends in the next town over had school districts that didn't pay any attention to them.
They still took end of the year tests, but chose to use California's tougher standardized tests rather than New York's sadly out of date ones.
My school district did take an interest in us, and we took yearly standardized tests with a certified teacher at the end of every school year.
Both my sister and I began testing at a post-high school level by the eighth grade.
For those who protest that religious reasons are an unacceptable reason to homeschool your children, I must respectfully disagree.
Imagine, if you will, that you live in a society that is ruled by fundamental Islamsics, Hindus, Catholics, Christians, Scientology or anyone else that might attempt to force beliefs and teaching on you or your children that you don't agree with.
(They do exist...) Would you not wish to teach your children at home?
I believe that the choice to bring a child up with religious training (or non-religious) is still a right.
(At least in the US.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
) I think that in very few instances should the government have the power to tell us how we can live our lives or interact with our family and run our homes.
I do think that in cases of physical abuse the law is very clear.
But when you start calling down emotional and mental abuse, the accusations are not as clear.
The guidelines are much fuzzier.
I've heard a lot of people call any kind of religious training brainwashing and abuse.
I don't deny that in rare cases it does happen, but I think you ride a very fine line when you attempt to legally condemn an entire worldview.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30945444</id>
	<title>Re:Religion, not schooling</title>
	<author>AK Marc</author>
	<datestamp>1264697520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>But the issue was that they were never prevented from teaching or doing anything.  They were never denied anything.  They were, in effect, required to learn about how other people did it, and the parents wished to eliminate that exposure.  That's not covered anywhere in what I read of your post.</htmltext>
<tokenext>But the issue was that they were never prevented from teaching or doing anything .
They were never denied anything .
They were , in effect , required to learn about how other people did it , and the parents wished to eliminate that exposure .
That 's not covered anywhere in what I read of your post .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But the issue was that they were never prevented from teaching or doing anything.
They were never denied anything.
They were, in effect, required to learn about how other people did it, and the parents wished to eliminate that exposure.
That's not covered anywhere in what I read of your post.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937548</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939022</id>
	<title>Re:You can homeschool all you want</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264710240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>When you try to push morals and religion into education you end up with none of the above.</p></div><p>Deep. Real deep. Did you get that off the back of a cereal box this morning?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>When you try to push morals and religion into education you end up with none of the above.Deep .
Real deep .
Did you get that off the back of a cereal box this morning ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you try to push morals and religion into education you end up with none of the above.Deep.
Real deep.
Did you get that off the back of a cereal box this morning?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937770</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264707240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've encountered homeschoolers mainly at academic competitions, so my view is a little skewed.  I know anecdotes are not data and such, but what is your source for the claim that the "vast majority" is done by religious fanatics?  Most that I have known were ones that were too fast or too slow to be easily accommodated in regular schools or those who wished to focus more heavily on a particular area.  The demographic that comes closest to your description is those whose parents wanted to provide a more sheltered and supportive (50's sitcom) environment for their children.  Mostly they were taught by stay at home mothers that felt they could do better 1 on 2-3 than a teach in a 1 on 30 environment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've encountered homeschoolers mainly at academic competitions , so my view is a little skewed .
I know anecdotes are not data and such , but what is your source for the claim that the " vast majority " is done by religious fanatics ?
Most that I have known were ones that were too fast or too slow to be easily accommodated in regular schools or those who wished to focus more heavily on a particular area .
The demographic that comes closest to your description is those whose parents wanted to provide a more sheltered and supportive ( 50 's sitcom ) environment for their children .
Mostly they were taught by stay at home mothers that felt they could do better 1 on 2-3 than a teach in a 1 on 30 environment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've encountered homeschoolers mainly at academic competitions, so my view is a little skewed.
I know anecdotes are not data and such, but what is your source for the claim that the "vast majority" is done by religious fanatics?
Most that I have known were ones that were too fast or too slow to be easily accommodated in regular schools or those who wished to focus more heavily on a particular area.
The demographic that comes closest to your description is those whose parents wanted to provide a more sheltered and supportive (50's sitcom) environment for their children.
Mostly they were taught by stay at home mothers that felt they could do better 1 on 2-3 than a teach in a 1 on 30 environment.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936606</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937378</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>Sique</author>
	<datestamp>1264706460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In Germany you aren't even required to put your children in a public school at all! All you have to warrant is that they get an education at all. And "education" is defined in this case as "being educated by an examined teacher". If the family Romeike didn't fiddle around and play hide-and-seek with the authorities but were either taking the exams themselves of finding a teacher with the exams and with educational views to their likes, everything would have been fine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In Germany you are n't even required to put your children in a public school at all !
All you have to warrant is that they get an education at all .
And " education " is defined in this case as " being educated by an examined teacher " .
If the family Romeike did n't fiddle around and play hide-and-seek with the authorities but were either taking the exams themselves of finding a teacher with the exams and with educational views to their likes , everything would have been fine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In Germany you aren't even required to put your children in a public school at all!
All you have to warrant is that they get an education at all.
And "education" is defined in this case as "being educated by an examined teacher".
If the family Romeike didn't fiddle around and play hide-and-seek with the authorities but were either taking the exams themselves of finding a teacher with the exams and with educational views to their likes, everything would have been fine.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936760</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939688</id>
	<title>Re:Religious Nutjobs</title>
	<author>vvaduva</author>
	<datestamp>1264712160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So perhaps we should remove children from their "religious" homes soon after birth, educate them as the majority sees fit, then return them to the parents?</p><p>Does that meet your approval?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So perhaps we should remove children from their " religious " homes soon after birth , educate them as the majority sees fit , then return them to the parents ? Does that meet your approval ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So perhaps we should remove children from their "religious" homes soon after birth, educate them as the majority sees fit, then return them to the parents?Does that meet your approval?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936736</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942246</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>TheMiddleRoad</author>
	<datestamp>1264676700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So I have a right to raise my children without science or math?  I don't think so.  We all have a responsibility to give our children certain standards of knowledge.  To do otherwise is shameful.  This family is shameful, as are the judge's actions.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So I have a right to raise my children without science or math ?
I do n't think so .
We all have a responsibility to give our children certain standards of knowledge .
To do otherwise is shameful .
This family is shameful , as are the judge 's actions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So I have a right to raise my children without science or math?
I don't think so.
We all have a responsibility to give our children certain standards of knowledge.
To do otherwise is shameful.
This family is shameful, as are the judge's actions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939042</id>
	<title>Re:Hey Germany</title>
	<author>he-sk</author>
	<datestamp>1264710300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The fucking Declaration of Human Rights states that <a href="http://secint50.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml#a26" title="un.org">elementary education shall be compulsory</a> [un.org].  And rightfully so, to prevent parents with wacky beliefs from ruining their kid's future chances.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The fucking Declaration of Human Rights states that elementary education shall be compulsory [ un.org ] .
And rightfully so , to prevent parents with wacky beliefs from ruining their kid 's future chances .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The fucking Declaration of Human Rights states that elementary education shall be compulsory [un.org].
And rightfully so, to prevent parents with wacky beliefs from ruining their kid's future chances.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936504</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30947330</id>
	<title>Re:Contradiction</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264761540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The US government may not provide a good quality education (from what I hear there's huge variation between public schools in the US and there are some good ones but you have to go looking for them) but in this case it's the German government, and while I don't know about Germany specifically, Europe in general has very good quality public education.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The US government may not provide a good quality education ( from what I hear there 's huge variation between public schools in the US and there are some good ones but you have to go looking for them ) but in this case it 's the German government , and while I do n't know about Germany specifically , Europe in general has very good quality public education .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The US government may not provide a good quality education (from what I hear there's huge variation between public schools in the US and there are some good ones but you have to go looking for them) but in this case it's the German government, and while I don't know about Germany specifically, Europe in general has very good quality public education.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937604</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936956</id>
	<title>Re:In other words...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264705380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Have you actually sampled both school systems, or merely one? Perspective can be a bitch.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Have you actually sampled both school systems , or merely one ?
Perspective can be a bitch .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have you actually sampled both school systems, or merely one?
Perspective can be a bitch.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936834</id>
	<title>Really, WTF?!?!</title>
	<author>Shivetya</author>
	<datestamp>1264705020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So in your view the only people who home school are racist or religious zealots?  Since the majority of children are educated in public schools I would suggest the majority of nincompoops are from there instead.  Children taught by the public system that they are special, its not their fault they don't study, no one is better than anyone else, and its not fair if you don't have stuff other people have.</p><p>Not all people home school do so because of religion, some do it because they to control the environment their children learn in, they want to give their children a leg up, they truly are that good.  Whats next?  Vilify people who send their children to private schools are elitist pricks who don't want to have their kids associate with people with the wrong skin color?</p><p>Its the blind hate people like you who are the problem, I would take a state full of home schooled kids over one of you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So in your view the only people who home school are racist or religious zealots ?
Since the majority of children are educated in public schools I would suggest the majority of nincompoops are from there instead .
Children taught by the public system that they are special , its not their fault they do n't study , no one is better than anyone else , and its not fair if you do n't have stuff other people have.Not all people home school do so because of religion , some do it because they to control the environment their children learn in , they want to give their children a leg up , they truly are that good .
Whats next ?
Vilify people who send their children to private schools are elitist pricks who do n't want to have their kids associate with people with the wrong skin color ? Its the blind hate people like you who are the problem , I would take a state full of home schooled kids over one of you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So in your view the only people who home school are racist or religious zealots?
Since the majority of children are educated in public schools I would suggest the majority of nincompoops are from there instead.
Children taught by the public system that they are special, its not their fault they don't study, no one is better than anyone else, and its not fair if you don't have stuff other people have.Not all people home school do so because of religion, some do it because they to control the environment their children learn in, they want to give their children a leg up, they truly are that good.
Whats next?
Vilify people who send their children to private schools are elitist pricks who don't want to have their kids associate with people with the wrong skin color?Its the blind hate people like you who are the problem, I would take a state full of home schooled kids over one of you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938512</id>
	<title>Re:Homeschooling =/= fundamentalist schooling</title>
	<author>Jesus\_666</author>
	<datestamp>1264709040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes, but you can't guarantee that any random person makes for an effective teacher. Since German children have an explicitly stated right to an education by trained professionals, home schooling is only accepted in Germany if at least one of the parents qualifies (the relevant title would be Master of Education* or the roughly equivalent First State Exam for teachers).<br>
<br>
By not providing your children with a professional teacher you are infringing on their rights, at least under German law. I don't see much of a problem with that. Granted, there are problematic corner cases (there always are) but still, it ensures that we don't have a lot of uneducated hicks running around.<br>
<br>
<br>
* Yes, a Bachelor isn't enough. Before we introduced Bachelor/Master courses a few years ago we didn't have anything that took less work that a Master's degree. Hence, anything that short doesn't get a whole lot of respect.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , but you ca n't guarantee that any random person makes for an effective teacher .
Since German children have an explicitly stated right to an education by trained professionals , home schooling is only accepted in Germany if at least one of the parents qualifies ( the relevant title would be Master of Education * or the roughly equivalent First State Exam for teachers ) .
By not providing your children with a professional teacher you are infringing on their rights , at least under German law .
I do n't see much of a problem with that .
Granted , there are problematic corner cases ( there always are ) but still , it ensures that we do n't have a lot of uneducated hicks running around .
* Yes , a Bachelor is n't enough .
Before we introduced Bachelor/Master courses a few years ago we did n't have anything that took less work that a Master 's degree .
Hence , anything that short does n't get a whole lot of respect .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, but you can't guarantee that any random person makes for an effective teacher.
Since German children have an explicitly stated right to an education by trained professionals, home schooling is only accepted in Germany if at least one of the parents qualifies (the relevant title would be Master of Education* or the roughly equivalent First State Exam for teachers).
By not providing your children with a professional teacher you are infringing on their rights, at least under German law.
I don't see much of a problem with that.
Granted, there are problematic corner cases (there always are) but still, it ensures that we don't have a lot of uneducated hicks running around.
* Yes, a Bachelor isn't enough.
Before we introduced Bachelor/Master courses a few years ago we didn't have anything that took less work that a Master's degree.
Hence, anything that short doesn't get a whole lot of respect.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936876</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937318</id>
	<title>It Figures</title>
	<author>gyrogeerloose</author>
	<datestamp>1264706280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why am I not surprised that they ended up in Tennessee?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why am I not surprised that they ended up in Tennessee ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why am I not surprised that they ended up in Tennessee?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942920</id>
	<title>Re:Homeschooling =/= fundamentalist schooling</title>
	<author>Totenglocke</author>
	<datestamp>1264679280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What on Earth made you think that<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.'ers wouldn't have an irrational reaction to the idea of homeschooling?</p></div><p>Honestly?  I would've assumed most slashdotters would be FOR home schooling given how horrible most public schools are and how they actively discourage creativity and learning at a faster pace than Johnny Footballplayer.  I guess the average slashdotters blind hatred of religion (and I'm saying based off the metric ton of "Religion is a form of schizophrenia" and "only psycho religious people brainwashing their kids to be racists home school" posts in this thread) gets in the way of remember just how bad public schools are.  I know if I ever have kids, if it's feasible, they'll be home schooled, at least up until high school.  That way I can make sure that they know more going into high school than the typical kid does after they graduate high school.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What on Earth made you think that / .
'ers would n't have an irrational reaction to the idea of homeschooling ? Honestly ?
I would 've assumed most slashdotters would be FOR home schooling given how horrible most public schools are and how they actively discourage creativity and learning at a faster pace than Johnny Footballplayer .
I guess the average slashdotters blind hatred of religion ( and I 'm saying based off the metric ton of " Religion is a form of schizophrenia " and " only psycho religious people brainwashing their kids to be racists home school " posts in this thread ) gets in the way of remember just how bad public schools are .
I know if I ever have kids , if it 's feasible , they 'll be home schooled , at least up until high school .
That way I can make sure that they know more going into high school than the typical kid does after they graduate high school .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What on Earth made you think that /.
'ers wouldn't have an irrational reaction to the idea of homeschooling?Honestly?
I would've assumed most slashdotters would be FOR home schooling given how horrible most public schools are and how they actively discourage creativity and learning at a faster pace than Johnny Footballplayer.
I guess the average slashdotters blind hatred of religion (and I'm saying based off the metric ton of "Religion is a form of schizophrenia" and "only psycho religious people brainwashing their kids to be racists home school" posts in this thread) gets in the way of remember just how bad public schools are.
I know if I ever have kids, if it's feasible, they'll be home schooled, at least up until high school.
That way I can make sure that they know more going into high school than the typical kid does after they graduate high school.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937084</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30951648</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>Sally Forth</author>
	<datestamp>1264789080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, our children are a direct result of the combination of their parents' DNA. As such, they are already shaped into our image by a process over which we had no control: the husband's eyes, the mother's body shape, even the likely birthweight of <i>their</i> children.
<br> <br>
Now who is better suited to understanding and teaching a child than the people who, working together, contain all that the child contains? I am synesthetic. My child is synesthetic. Am I not as well suited to teaching him coping methods as the non-synesthetic public school teacher?
<br> <br>
Many of the most brilliant people in the world were taught at home. Some of them, like Edison, were removed from school after flunking out. When a child is capable of creating blueprints in his head, who is better suited to help him? Someone who can do the same thing, or someone who cannot?
<br> <br>
You've put forth a false claim here in linking the shaping of your child with beating and brainwashing him. Would you claim that you cannot braid hair without pulling it out of the scalp, or that you cannot close the snaps on clothing without crushing the metal? Of course not. There's use and there's abuse, and it's a logical fallacy to claim that one is always the other.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , our children are a direct result of the combination of their parents ' DNA .
As such , they are already shaped into our image by a process over which we had no control : the husband 's eyes , the mother 's body shape , even the likely birthweight of their children .
Now who is better suited to understanding and teaching a child than the people who , working together , contain all that the child contains ?
I am synesthetic .
My child is synesthetic .
Am I not as well suited to teaching him coping methods as the non-synesthetic public school teacher ?
Many of the most brilliant people in the world were taught at home .
Some of them , like Edison , were removed from school after flunking out .
When a child is capable of creating blueprints in his head , who is better suited to help him ?
Someone who can do the same thing , or someone who can not ?
You 've put forth a false claim here in linking the shaping of your child with beating and brainwashing him .
Would you claim that you can not braid hair without pulling it out of the scalp , or that you can not close the snaps on clothing without crushing the metal ?
Of course not .
There 's use and there 's abuse , and it 's a logical fallacy to claim that one is always the other .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, our children are a direct result of the combination of their parents' DNA.
As such, they are already shaped into our image by a process over which we had no control: the husband's eyes, the mother's body shape, even the likely birthweight of their children.
Now who is better suited to understanding and teaching a child than the people who, working together, contain all that the child contains?
I am synesthetic.
My child is synesthetic.
Am I not as well suited to teaching him coping methods as the non-synesthetic public school teacher?
Many of the most brilliant people in the world were taught at home.
Some of them, like Edison, were removed from school after flunking out.
When a child is capable of creating blueprints in his head, who is better suited to help him?
Someone who can do the same thing, or someone who cannot?
You've put forth a false claim here in linking the shaping of your child with beating and brainwashing him.
Would you claim that you cannot braid hair without pulling it out of the scalp, or that you cannot close the snaps on clothing without crushing the metal?
Of course not.
There's use and there's abuse, and it's a logical fallacy to claim that one is always the other.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937270</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942082</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>woodsworth</author>
	<datestamp>1264676220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well, quite frankly, having been raised in the society under inspection here, I never felt like I am missing out one of my human rights.<p>

And I don't really see why I should. My parents had every right to tell me whatever they wanted to; they could even openly object to whatever I learned in school. Not that there's ever been a need to do so (they sometimes objected to the methods used, though; quite openly, in fact).</p><p>

It is one of those rights which need to be balanced between your personal rights and the rights/benefits/needs of society. It is a bit like freedom of speech vs. insulting or constraining others. The US tends to be more in favor of the personal rights here, Germany tends to be more in favor of society as a whole. Different cultures, I guess.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , quite frankly , having been raised in the society under inspection here , I never felt like I am missing out one of my human rights .
And I do n't really see why I should .
My parents had every right to tell me whatever they wanted to ; they could even openly object to whatever I learned in school .
Not that there 's ever been a need to do so ( they sometimes objected to the methods used , though ; quite openly , in fact ) .
It is one of those rights which need to be balanced between your personal rights and the rights/benefits/needs of society .
It is a bit like freedom of speech vs. insulting or constraining others .
The US tends to be more in favor of the personal rights here , Germany tends to be more in favor of society as a whole .
Different cultures , I guess .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, quite frankly, having been raised in the society under inspection here, I never felt like I am missing out one of my human rights.
And I don't really see why I should.
My parents had every right to tell me whatever they wanted to; they could even openly object to whatever I learned in school.
Not that there's ever been a need to do so (they sometimes objected to the methods used, though; quite openly, in fact).
It is one of those rights which need to be balanced between your personal rights and the rights/benefits/needs of society.
It is a bit like freedom of speech vs. insulting or constraining others.
The US tends to be more in favor of the personal rights here, Germany tends to be more in favor of society as a whole.
Different cultures, I guess.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941966</id>
	<title>Re:No story here</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1264675860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>To an extent, yes.</p><p>Freedom is not 100\% anywhere in the world.  Society defines acceptable limits to freedom.  Even in america children are required to be educated, with a specific minimum set of requirements.  It may be different than Germany, but its there all the same.</p><p>It isn't THEIR choice because WE as a society said 'there are limits to this level of freedom as WE believe the children themselves have some rights which the parents DON'T get complete control over, and education is one of them.</p><p>Do you think the parents have the right to abuse their children as well?  Is that also THEIR choice?  No, again WE have said parents DO NOT get to abuse their children.</p><p>Freedom has its limits, otherwise it would be anarchy and there would be no laws at all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>To an extent , yes.Freedom is not 100 \ % anywhere in the world .
Society defines acceptable limits to freedom .
Even in america children are required to be educated , with a specific minimum set of requirements .
It may be different than Germany , but its there all the same.It is n't THEIR choice because WE as a society said 'there are limits to this level of freedom as WE believe the children themselves have some rights which the parents DO N'T get complete control over , and education is one of them.Do you think the parents have the right to abuse their children as well ?
Is that also THEIR choice ?
No , again WE have said parents DO NOT get to abuse their children.Freedom has its limits , otherwise it would be anarchy and there would be no laws at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To an extent, yes.Freedom is not 100\% anywhere in the world.
Society defines acceptable limits to freedom.
Even in america children are required to be educated, with a specific minimum set of requirements.
It may be different than Germany, but its there all the same.It isn't THEIR choice because WE as a society said 'there are limits to this level of freedom as WE believe the children themselves have some rights which the parents DON'T get complete control over, and education is one of them.Do you think the parents have the right to abuse their children as well?
Is that also THEIR choice?
No, again WE have said parents DO NOT get to abuse their children.Freedom has its limits, otherwise it would be anarchy and there would be no laws at all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944276</id>
	<title>Homeschool to get free college</title>
	<author>movdqa</author>
	<datestamp>1264687140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Many homeschoolers in my area are sending their homeschooled kids at 14, 15, 16, and 17 to college. They get their group education in an environment that isn't as caustic as middle- and high-school. They can also earn college credit to reduce college expenses in the future and there's a nice Federal tax credit to pay for the college courses.

Something that I've just read about is parents with students in private school considering homeschooling in order to get them into dual-enrollment programs at community colleges. Some community colleges provide free courses to homeschoolers and tax credits could take care of remaining expenses.

Our kids started college at 15. They get the group benefits and learn things that we're happy to farm out with students that are generally more mature than those in secondary schools.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Many homeschoolers in my area are sending their homeschooled kids at 14 , 15 , 16 , and 17 to college .
They get their group education in an environment that is n't as caustic as middle- and high-school .
They can also earn college credit to reduce college expenses in the future and there 's a nice Federal tax credit to pay for the college courses .
Something that I 've just read about is parents with students in private school considering homeschooling in order to get them into dual-enrollment programs at community colleges .
Some community colleges provide free courses to homeschoolers and tax credits could take care of remaining expenses .
Our kids started college at 15 .
They get the group benefits and learn things that we 're happy to farm out with students that are generally more mature than those in secondary schools .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many homeschoolers in my area are sending their homeschooled kids at 14, 15, 16, and 17 to college.
They get their group education in an environment that isn't as caustic as middle- and high-school.
They can also earn college credit to reduce college expenses in the future and there's a nice Federal tax credit to pay for the college courses.
Something that I've just read about is parents with students in private school considering homeschooling in order to get them into dual-enrollment programs at community colleges.
Some community colleges provide free courses to homeschoolers and tax credits could take care of remaining expenses.
Our kids started college at 15.
They get the group benefits and learn things that we're happy to farm out with students that are generally more mature than those in secondary schools.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936776</id>
	<title>It would be a violation of human rights when:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264704900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>the kids get indoctrinated at home by parents who are to make sure the kids will never stand a chance in any competitive way in the real world.

Now maybe this Judge considers that a 'right' for the parents, but he sure as hell ain't thinking about the kids rights! Germany should kick the ambassador out. This is no concern of the USA and besides... USA talking about human rights in itself is an insult for anyone who cares about such rights.

Feel free to disagree, bit -1 troll isn't the way to out it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>the kids get indoctrinated at home by parents who are to make sure the kids will never stand a chance in any competitive way in the real world .
Now maybe this Judge considers that a 'right ' for the parents , but he sure as hell ai n't thinking about the kids rights !
Germany should kick the ambassador out .
This is no concern of the USA and besides... USA talking about human rights in itself is an insult for anyone who cares about such rights .
Feel free to disagree , bit -1 troll is n't the way to out it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the kids get indoctrinated at home by parents who are to make sure the kids will never stand a chance in any competitive way in the real world.
Now maybe this Judge considers that a 'right' for the parents, but he sure as hell ain't thinking about the kids rights!
Germany should kick the ambassador out.
This is no concern of the USA and besides... USA talking about human rights in itself is an insult for anyone who cares about such rights.
Feel free to disagree, bit -1 troll isn't the way to out it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936670</id>
	<title>I wonder...</title>
	<author>WarpCode</author>
	<datestamp>1264704600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Would Germany offer a reciprocal political asylum for those of us who have kids in the US public school system that want our children to have a better education?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Would Germany offer a reciprocal political asylum for those of us who have kids in the US public school system that want our children to have a better education ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Would Germany offer a reciprocal political asylum for those of us who have kids in the US public school system that want our children to have a better education?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942750</id>
	<title>Re:Religion, not schooling</title>
	<author>Asic Eng</author>
	<datestamp>1264678560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>[...] objected to elements of the public school's curriculum, including sex education and morality lessons drawn from other religions.</i> <p>
When I went to school there (admittedly that's a very long time ago) parents could opt out of sex education, the parents of one girl did just that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>[ ... ] objected to elements of the public school 's curriculum , including sex education and morality lessons drawn from other religions .
When I went to school there ( admittedly that 's a very long time ago ) parents could opt out of sex education , the parents of one girl did just that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>[...] objected to elements of the public school's curriculum, including sex education and morality lessons drawn from other religions.
When I went to school there (admittedly that's a very long time ago) parents could opt out of sex education, the parents of one girl did just that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936712</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937382</id>
	<title>Re:Brilliant!</title>
	<author>91degrees</author>
	<datestamp>1264706460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Immigrants from wealthy first world nations aren't really going to cause any big problems for the US though.  I suspect this would have been more of a factor from a poorer country since it would make it more likely they were looking for any excuse.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Immigrants from wealthy first world nations are n't really going to cause any big problems for the US though .
I suspect this would have been more of a factor from a poorer country since it would make it more likely they were looking for any excuse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Immigrants from wealthy first world nations aren't really going to cause any big problems for the US though.
I suspect this would have been more of a factor from a poorer country since it would make it more likely they were looking for any excuse.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936498</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941272</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>Belial6</author>
	<datestamp>1264673520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Honestly, the biggest 'socialization' problem that I have seen with home schoolers is that 15 year olds who have a mental age of 10 year olds find 15 year olds who have properly matured into adults as "weird".  There is a joke that one of the local home schooling fathers likes to tell.  When the subject of socialization comes up, he cracks the joke about having solved that.  He just says "We solved the socialization problem by once a week, dragging our kids into the bathroom, smacking them around a bit and taking their allowance back."<br> <br>

Now, there is no doubt that he is cracking a joke, but it is funny because it is an exaggeration of the truth.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Honestly , the biggest 'socialization ' problem that I have seen with home schoolers is that 15 year olds who have a mental age of 10 year olds find 15 year olds who have properly matured into adults as " weird " .
There is a joke that one of the local home schooling fathers likes to tell .
When the subject of socialization comes up , he cracks the joke about having solved that .
He just says " We solved the socialization problem by once a week , dragging our kids into the bathroom , smacking them around a bit and taking their allowance back .
" Now , there is no doubt that he is cracking a joke , but it is funny because it is an exaggeration of the truth .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Honestly, the biggest 'socialization' problem that I have seen with home schoolers is that 15 year olds who have a mental age of 10 year olds find 15 year olds who have properly matured into adults as "weird".
There is a joke that one of the local home schooling fathers likes to tell.
When the subject of socialization comes up, he cracks the joke about having solved that.
He just says "We solved the socialization problem by once a week, dragging our kids into the bathroom, smacking them around a bit and taking their allowance back.
" 

Now, there is no doubt that he is cracking a joke, but it is funny because it is an exaggeration of the truth.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936764</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939018</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>tompaulco</author>
	<datestamp>1264710240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The truth is out there. Read the freely available statistics. Read Wikipedia. About 1/3 claim religious reasons.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The truth is out there .
Read the freely available statistics .
Read Wikipedia .
About 1/3 claim religious reasons .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The truth is out there.
Read the freely available statistics.
Read Wikipedia.
About 1/3 claim religious reasons.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936606</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937584</id>
	<title>Re:You can homeschool all you want</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264706940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My natural human right to freedom (god-given if you prefer) trumps your personal view. That includes the right to decide the path your children take until they are adults. They are my children. They belong to me, not you, government, or any arbitrary third party. This is simply human nature.</p><p>Let's think of it this way: in order to achieve your ideals, you must resort to physical force (or threat thereof). And you will delegate this dirty work to others on your behalf. On the other hand, I have initiated coercion against nobody. In order to achieve my ideals, I rely on my own hard work and determination.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My natural human right to freedom ( god-given if you prefer ) trumps your personal view .
That includes the right to decide the path your children take until they are adults .
They are my children .
They belong to me , not you , government , or any arbitrary third party .
This is simply human nature.Let 's think of it this way : in order to achieve your ideals , you must resort to physical force ( or threat thereof ) .
And you will delegate this dirty work to others on your behalf .
On the other hand , I have initiated coercion against nobody .
In order to achieve my ideals , I rely on my own hard work and determination .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My natural human right to freedom (god-given if you prefer) trumps your personal view.
That includes the right to decide the path your children take until they are adults.
They are my children.
They belong to me, not you, government, or any arbitrary third party.
This is simply human nature.Let's think of it this way: in order to achieve your ideals, you must resort to physical force (or threat thereof).
And you will delegate this dirty work to others on your behalf.
On the other hand, I have initiated coercion against nobody.
In order to achieve my ideals, I rely on my own hard work and determination.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944902</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>buddyglass</author>
	<datestamp>1264691760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>'m sure there are cases of home schooled children who end up "more focused and ambitious", but I doubt it's the majority. Although it seems to be changing, most home-schoolers are still of the religious fanatic variety...</p></div></blockquote><p>Let me suggest anecdotally that "more focused and ambitious" and "religious" are not mutually exclusive.  A friend of mine in college was the child of two missionaries.  He spent a large portion of his youth in China, was fluent in Chinese, etc.  He was also home schooled for much of his education.  Ended up attending a top 10 public university in the U.S.; was this university's Rhodes scholarship candidate; eventually went back and got an M.B.A.  His brother graduated from Harvard.  Sure, these are just two guys, but I think they adequately demonstrate that you can be home schooled for "religious reasons" and not miss out on the actual education.</p><blockquote><div><p>most importantly, anything about "safe" sex.</p></div></blockquote><p>Can't say for sure since this friend and I have never discussed his sexual history, but afaik he abstained until getting married in his 20s.  So the "safe sex" education would have been completely irrelevant.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>'m sure there are cases of home schooled children who end up " more focused and ambitious " , but I doubt it 's the majority .
Although it seems to be changing , most home-schoolers are still of the religious fanatic variety...Let me suggest anecdotally that " more focused and ambitious " and " religious " are not mutually exclusive .
A friend of mine in college was the child of two missionaries .
He spent a large portion of his youth in China , was fluent in Chinese , etc .
He was also home schooled for much of his education .
Ended up attending a top 10 public university in the U.S. ; was this university 's Rhodes scholarship candidate ; eventually went back and got an M.B.A. His brother graduated from Harvard .
Sure , these are just two guys , but I think they adequately demonstrate that you can be home schooled for " religious reasons " and not miss out on the actual education.most importantly , anything about " safe " sex.Ca n't say for sure since this friend and I have never discussed his sexual history , but afaik he abstained until getting married in his 20s .
So the " safe sex " education would have been completely irrelevant .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'m sure there are cases of home schooled children who end up "more focused and ambitious", but I doubt it's the majority.
Although it seems to be changing, most home-schoolers are still of the religious fanatic variety...Let me suggest anecdotally that "more focused and ambitious" and "religious" are not mutually exclusive.
A friend of mine in college was the child of two missionaries.
He spent a large portion of his youth in China, was fluent in Chinese, etc.
He was also home schooled for much of his education.
Ended up attending a top 10 public university in the U.S.; was this university's Rhodes scholarship candidate; eventually went back and got an M.B.A.  His brother graduated from Harvard.
Sure, these are just two guys, but I think they adequately demonstrate that you can be home schooled for "religious reasons" and not miss out on the actual education.most importantly, anything about "safe" sex.Can't say for sure since this friend and I have never discussed his sexual history, but afaik he abstained until getting married in his 20s.
So the "safe sex" education would have been completely irrelevant.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942696</id>
	<title>Re:Hey Germany</title>
	<author>MindlessAutomata</author>
	<datestamp>1264678440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh, so the UN just gets to up and decide what human rights are, and if the UN decided that people didn't have the right to disagree with them, you'd buy into that?  You'd buy into it if the UN said people didn't have the right to even live...?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh , so the UN just gets to up and decide what human rights are , and if the UN decided that people did n't have the right to disagree with them , you 'd buy into that ?
You 'd buy into it if the UN said people did n't have the right to even live... ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh, so the UN just gets to up and decide what human rights are, and if the UN decided that people didn't have the right to disagree with them, you'd buy into that?
You'd buy into it if the UN said people didn't have the right to even live...?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937698</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938324</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264708500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>And everyone else is going to be affected by your retarded parenting decisions down the road, because we're all part of a society and you can't escape that.</p></div><p>That's a valid point, except there's no guarantee that our children won't be getting retarded "parenting" decisions in a public school too. In fact, I'd argue very strongly that they currently are.</p><p>But while they may also be getting retarded education at home at least it's a different style of retarded education. And as a whole, diversity is a positive thing for any society.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And everyone else is going to be affected by your retarded parenting decisions down the road , because we 're all part of a society and you ca n't escape that.That 's a valid point , except there 's no guarantee that our children wo n't be getting retarded " parenting " decisions in a public school too .
In fact , I 'd argue very strongly that they currently are.But while they may also be getting retarded education at home at least it 's a different style of retarded education .
And as a whole , diversity is a positive thing for any society .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And everyone else is going to be affected by your retarded parenting decisions down the road, because we're all part of a society and you can't escape that.That's a valid point, except there's no guarantee that our children won't be getting retarded "parenting" decisions in a public school too.
In fact, I'd argue very strongly that they currently are.But while they may also be getting retarded education at home at least it's a different style of retarded education.
And as a whole, diversity is a positive thing for any society.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937270</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30945108</id>
	<title>Re:I do it</title>
	<author>ajlisows</author>
	<datestamp>1264693740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know a guy that was home schooled from something like 4th grade onward.  I asked him some of the same types of questions.  He was (as the OP went on to say about his kids) in extra activities like sports teams (Little League Baseball doesn't require attending school) and his parents had an agreement with the school that he would attend certain high school classes that really can't be done in a home environment.  Namely Chemistry and Physics where lab is an important aspect of the class.  </p><p>He has been pretty well adjusted socially since I met him when he was 24.  I can't say anything about him prior to that time.  His parents are hardcore Christians and he in turn is pretty hardcore Christian..however....he isn't the type to ignore the opinions of others or push his beliefs on them.  We've held many heated discussions about Religion and Politics and I would have to say he is way more tolerant than most people I knew who went to 12 years of a private Catholic school.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know a guy that was home schooled from something like 4th grade onward .
I asked him some of the same types of questions .
He was ( as the OP went on to say about his kids ) in extra activities like sports teams ( Little League Baseball does n't require attending school ) and his parents had an agreement with the school that he would attend certain high school classes that really ca n't be done in a home environment .
Namely Chemistry and Physics where lab is an important aspect of the class .
He has been pretty well adjusted socially since I met him when he was 24 .
I ca n't say anything about him prior to that time .
His parents are hardcore Christians and he in turn is pretty hardcore Christian..however....he is n't the type to ignore the opinions of others or push his beliefs on them .
We 've held many heated discussions about Religion and Politics and I would have to say he is way more tolerant than most people I knew who went to 12 years of a private Catholic school .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know a guy that was home schooled from something like 4th grade onward.
I asked him some of the same types of questions.
He was (as the OP went on to say about his kids) in extra activities like sports teams (Little League Baseball doesn't require attending school) and his parents had an agreement with the school that he would attend certain high school classes that really can't be done in a home environment.
Namely Chemistry and Physics where lab is an important aspect of the class.
He has been pretty well adjusted socially since I met him when he was 24.
I can't say anything about him prior to that time.
His parents are hardcore Christians and he in turn is pretty hardcore Christian..however....he isn't the type to ignore the opinions of others or push his beliefs on them.
We've held many heated discussions about Religion and Politics and I would have to say he is way more tolerant than most people I knew who went to 12 years of a private Catholic school.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936532</id>
	<title>I do it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264704240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I homeschool my kids.  In Texas the laws for home-schooling are quite permissive, since Texas has so many religious whack-jobs.  We are required to teach the "basic educational goals of reading, spelling, grammar, math, and a study of good citizenship" -- language from the original statute authorizing private schools.  No requirements to teach teh nasty atheist science.
</p><p>In the 1980s Arlington ISD pulled the same stunt as the German authorities in the article did.  The family went to court (Leeper v. Arlington ISD), squandered a fortune, and eventually won a major smack-down to the school district.  Since then, we homeschoolers have mostly been left alone.  Occasionally a truant officer may harass the kids if they are outside during school hours, but homeschool organizations give instruction to the parents in how to handle the discussion with the truant officer.
</p><p>We have to keep a basic record of what we taught and when, in case we are challenged about whether we are meeting the "basic educational goals..." listed above, but I do that anyway so that I know what to review later.  It's a piece of cake.  I can't believe I used to think homeschooling was a scarey responsibility; today I find it equally scarey to trust my sons' minds to a public edifice.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I homeschool my kids .
In Texas the laws for home-schooling are quite permissive , since Texas has so many religious whack-jobs .
We are required to teach the " basic educational goals of reading , spelling , grammar , math , and a study of good citizenship " -- language from the original statute authorizing private schools .
No requirements to teach teh nasty atheist science .
In the 1980s Arlington ISD pulled the same stunt as the German authorities in the article did .
The family went to court ( Leeper v. Arlington ISD ) , squandered a fortune , and eventually won a major smack-down to the school district .
Since then , we homeschoolers have mostly been left alone .
Occasionally a truant officer may harass the kids if they are outside during school hours , but homeschool organizations give instruction to the parents in how to handle the discussion with the truant officer .
We have to keep a basic record of what we taught and when , in case we are challenged about whether we are meeting the " basic educational goals... " listed above , but I do that anyway so that I know what to review later .
It 's a piece of cake .
I ca n't believe I used to think homeschooling was a scarey responsibility ; today I find it equally scarey to trust my sons ' minds to a public edifice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I homeschool my kids.
In Texas the laws for home-schooling are quite permissive, since Texas has so many religious whack-jobs.
We are required to teach the "basic educational goals of reading, spelling, grammar, math, and a study of good citizenship" -- language from the original statute authorizing private schools.
No requirements to teach teh nasty atheist science.
In the 1980s Arlington ISD pulled the same stunt as the German authorities in the article did.
The family went to court (Leeper v. Arlington ISD), squandered a fortune, and eventually won a major smack-down to the school district.
Since then, we homeschoolers have mostly been left alone.
Occasionally a truant officer may harass the kids if they are outside during school hours, but homeschool organizations give instruction to the parents in how to handle the discussion with the truant officer.
We have to keep a basic record of what we taught and when, in case we are challenged about whether we are meeting the "basic educational goals..." listed above, but I do that anyway so that I know what to review later.
It's a piece of cake.
I can't believe I used to think homeschooling was a scarey responsibility; today I find it equally scarey to trust my sons' minds to a public edifice.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941822</id>
	<title>Re:I do it</title>
	<author>tygt</author>
	<datestamp>1264675380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Somewhat tongue-in-cheek: I'm not surprised that they're uneasy when being questioned about their school seeing as how a, they're home-schooled and therefore "different" and b, so many people assume homeschoolers are whack-jobs.
<p>
My kids were homeschooled on and off. First 4 years of school at home, and then two of them did 7th and 8th grade at home. Non-religious (semi-atheist, agnostic, something... we did study religion but not as believers, if you can understand that). The kids are, by anyone's measure, among the best socialized kids you'll find - friendly, outgoing, thoughtful, respectful.
</p><p>
Of course, we made a big effort to provide social contact. In a controlled fashion, though, not like the free-for-all do-or-die in your typical school, where kids certainly aren't exposed to good practices.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Somewhat tongue-in-cheek : I 'm not surprised that they 're uneasy when being questioned about their school seeing as how a , they 're home-schooled and therefore " different " and b , so many people assume homeschoolers are whack-jobs .
My kids were homeschooled on and off .
First 4 years of school at home , and then two of them did 7th and 8th grade at home .
Non-religious ( semi-atheist , agnostic , something... we did study religion but not as believers , if you can understand that ) .
The kids are , by anyone 's measure , among the best socialized kids you 'll find - friendly , outgoing , thoughtful , respectful .
Of course , we made a big effort to provide social contact .
In a controlled fashion , though , not like the free-for-all do-or-die in your typical school , where kids certainly are n't exposed to good practices .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Somewhat tongue-in-cheek: I'm not surprised that they're uneasy when being questioned about their school seeing as how a, they're home-schooled and therefore "different" and b, so many people assume homeschoolers are whack-jobs.
My kids were homeschooled on and off.
First 4 years of school at home, and then two of them did 7th and 8th grade at home.
Non-religious (semi-atheist, agnostic, something... we did study religion but not as believers, if you can understand that).
The kids are, by anyone's measure, among the best socialized kids you'll find - friendly, outgoing, thoughtful, respectful.
Of course, we made a big effort to provide social contact.
In a controlled fashion, though, not like the free-for-all do-or-die in your typical school, where kids certainly aren't exposed to good practices.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939474</id>
	<title>Re:Religious Nutjobs</title>
	<author>pudge</author>
	<datestamp>1264711500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I don't have a problem with people home-schooling to improve the quality of education.  I myself was home-schooled for several years.</p><p>I do, however, have a major issue with people pulling their children out of public school so they can be home-schooled according to religious criteria.</p></div><p>So YOUR reasons are OK, but THEIRS are not.  Sounds arbitrary, hypocritical, and in violation of the Equal Protection clause to me.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Religious freedom allows you to worship, but it does not in my mind give one free license to program children with it.</p></div><p>Unless you can differentiate between "programming" a child to believe in Jesus Christ as their savior, and "programming" a child to believe that racism is bad<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... you have no argument here.  I believe both sorts of "programming" -- otherwise known as "teaching" -- are good, and I am quite sure you cannot demonstrate I am wrong except to say that you disagree with my religious views, which is, of course, not a real argument.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Children are not property.</p></div><p>Of course not.  What they are is a sacred trust given to the parents, and parents must do what they believe is best for those children, and damn the government if it gets in the way.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Religious conflict with a secular school is not a valid reason for home-schooling.</p></div><p>False.  In fact -- and the First Amendment backs me up here -- it's one of the best reasons.  Maybe THE best one.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Further, home schooled children should be subject to, at the very least, the same aptitude tests and subject material criteria as public school children.</p></div><p>False.  Government has no right to come into my home (literally or virtually) and see whether I am educating my children, according to my fundamental rights and obligations, in accordance with their arbitrary criteria, which has no rational force over me or my family.</p><p>I know what is best for my children; government does not.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't have a problem with people home-schooling to improve the quality of education .
I myself was home-schooled for several years.I do , however , have a major issue with people pulling their children out of public school so they can be home-schooled according to religious criteria.So YOUR reasons are OK , but THEIRS are not .
Sounds arbitrary , hypocritical , and in violation of the Equal Protection clause to me.Religious freedom allows you to worship , but it does not in my mind give one free license to program children with it.Unless you can differentiate between " programming " a child to believe in Jesus Christ as their savior , and " programming " a child to believe that racism is bad ... you have no argument here .
I believe both sorts of " programming " -- otherwise known as " teaching " -- are good , and I am quite sure you can not demonstrate I am wrong except to say that you disagree with my religious views , which is , of course , not a real argument.Children are not property.Of course not .
What they are is a sacred trust given to the parents , and parents must do what they believe is best for those children , and damn the government if it gets in the way.Religious conflict with a secular school is not a valid reason for home-schooling.False .
In fact -- and the First Amendment backs me up here -- it 's one of the best reasons .
Maybe THE best one.Further , home schooled children should be subject to , at the very least , the same aptitude tests and subject material criteria as public school children.False .
Government has no right to come into my home ( literally or virtually ) and see whether I am educating my children , according to my fundamental rights and obligations , in accordance with their arbitrary criteria , which has no rational force over me or my family.I know what is best for my children ; government does not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't have a problem with people home-schooling to improve the quality of education.
I myself was home-schooled for several years.I do, however, have a major issue with people pulling their children out of public school so they can be home-schooled according to religious criteria.So YOUR reasons are OK, but THEIRS are not.
Sounds arbitrary, hypocritical, and in violation of the Equal Protection clause to me.Religious freedom allows you to worship, but it does not in my mind give one free license to program children with it.Unless you can differentiate between "programming" a child to believe in Jesus Christ as their savior, and "programming" a child to believe that racism is bad ... you have no argument here.
I believe both sorts of "programming" -- otherwise known as "teaching" -- are good, and I am quite sure you cannot demonstrate I am wrong except to say that you disagree with my religious views, which is, of course, not a real argument.Children are not property.Of course not.
What they are is a sacred trust given to the parents, and parents must do what they believe is best for those children, and damn the government if it gets in the way.Religious conflict with a secular school is not a valid reason for home-schooling.False.
In fact -- and the First Amendment backs me up here -- it's one of the best reasons.
Maybe THE best one.Further, home schooled children should be subject to, at the very least, the same aptitude tests and subject material criteria as public school children.False.
Government has no right to come into my home (literally or virtually) and see whether I am educating my children, according to my fundamental rights and obligations, in accordance with their arbitrary criteria, which has no rational force over me or my family.I know what is best for my children; government does not.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936736</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938980</id>
	<title>Re:You can homeschool all you want</title>
	<author>pudge</author>
	<datestamp>1264710120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The only stipulation here is that the kids are taught in a classroom setting by certified teachers according to a strict curriculum.</p></div><p>Your stipulation is considered and rejected.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Parents have plenty of rights, but the right to destroy their kid's future by teaching them anti-science and borderline racist interpretations of history ought not be one.</p></div><p>The logical error you are perpetrating here is that gov't is an adequate judge of what "destroys" a kid's future, what is "anti-science," or what is a "racist" interpretation of history.  It's not.  I am a much better judge than government of what is, and is not, a good education for my children; and more to the point, perhaps, government has no right whatsoever to tell me otherwise.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>We have whole states here in the US that are filled with nincompoops because of homeschooling.</p></div><p>You are, of course, making that up.  When you invent something like that in this context, it certainly doesn't help your argument about what education for children should be.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Homeschooling begets more homeschooling in an endless cycle.</p></div><p>There's not much evidence of this, actually, since it's only a recent phenomena on a significant scale.  So again, you're making it up.  (Although since you've not in the least bit demonstrated that homeschooling is bad in any way whatsoever, you also give no one any reason to think this purported "cycle" is a bad one.)</p><p><div class="quote"><p>When you try to push morals and religion into education you end up with none of the above.</p></div><p>Oh come on.  That doesn't even make a lick of sense.  You're literally saying that morals and religion can't be taught.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only stipulation here is that the kids are taught in a classroom setting by certified teachers according to a strict curriculum.Your stipulation is considered and rejected.Parents have plenty of rights , but the right to destroy their kid 's future by teaching them anti-science and borderline racist interpretations of history ought not be one.The logical error you are perpetrating here is that gov't is an adequate judge of what " destroys " a kid 's future , what is " anti-science , " or what is a " racist " interpretation of history .
It 's not .
I am a much better judge than government of what is , and is not , a good education for my children ; and more to the point , perhaps , government has no right whatsoever to tell me otherwise.We have whole states here in the US that are filled with nincompoops because of homeschooling.You are , of course , making that up .
When you invent something like that in this context , it certainly does n't help your argument about what education for children should be.Homeschooling begets more homeschooling in an endless cycle.There 's not much evidence of this , actually , since it 's only a recent phenomena on a significant scale .
So again , you 're making it up .
( Although since you 've not in the least bit demonstrated that homeschooling is bad in any way whatsoever , you also give no one any reason to think this purported " cycle " is a bad one .
) When you try to push morals and religion into education you end up with none of the above.Oh come on .
That does n't even make a lick of sense .
You 're literally saying that morals and religion ca n't be taught .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only stipulation here is that the kids are taught in a classroom setting by certified teachers according to a strict curriculum.Your stipulation is considered and rejected.Parents have plenty of rights, but the right to destroy their kid's future by teaching them anti-science and borderline racist interpretations of history ought not be one.The logical error you are perpetrating here is that gov't is an adequate judge of what "destroys" a kid's future, what is "anti-science," or what is a "racist" interpretation of history.
It's not.
I am a much better judge than government of what is, and is not, a good education for my children; and more to the point, perhaps, government has no right whatsoever to tell me otherwise.We have whole states here in the US that are filled with nincompoops because of homeschooling.You are, of course, making that up.
When you invent something like that in this context, it certainly doesn't help your argument about what education for children should be.Homeschooling begets more homeschooling in an endless cycle.There's not much evidence of this, actually, since it's only a recent phenomena on a significant scale.
So again, you're making it up.
(Although since you've not in the least bit demonstrated that homeschooling is bad in any way whatsoever, you also give no one any reason to think this purported "cycle" is a bad one.
)When you try to push morals and religion into education you end up with none of the above.Oh come on.
That doesn't even make a lick of sense.
You're literally saying that morals and religion can't be taught.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938348</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264708620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This judge feels for the family, but it's a gross violation of the law.  Homeschooling is in no way a human right.  I'm all for immigration, but this family doesn't even come close to making the cut.</p></div><p>Left wing liberal nut jobs make me sick.</p><p>How exactly is home education not a human right? My parents created me by copulating, my mother carried me to term in her womb, and finally gave birth to me. She is the supreme architect of my life. My mother and father taught me the first things I learned in life. I would imagine that I am not unique in that.</p><p>It is clearly a human right.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This judge feels for the family , but it 's a gross violation of the law .
Homeschooling is in no way a human right .
I 'm all for immigration , but this family does n't even come close to making the cut.Left wing liberal nut jobs make me sick.How exactly is home education not a human right ?
My parents created me by copulating , my mother carried me to term in her womb , and finally gave birth to me .
She is the supreme architect of my life .
My mother and father taught me the first things I learned in life .
I would imagine that I am not unique in that.It is clearly a human right .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This judge feels for the family, but it's a gross violation of the law.
Homeschooling is in no way a human right.
I'm all for immigration, but this family doesn't even come close to making the cut.Left wing liberal nut jobs make me sick.How exactly is home education not a human right?
My parents created me by copulating, my mother carried me to term in her womb, and finally gave birth to me.
She is the supreme architect of my life.
My mother and father taught me the first things I learned in life.
I would imagine that I am not unique in that.It is clearly a human right.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939880</id>
	<title>Re:No story here</title>
	<author>XorNand</author>
	<datestamp>1264669740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't understand how your reply adds to the conversation?  The GP did not state that the parents shouldn't have the choice.  He is, in fact, simply ridiculing them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't understand how your reply adds to the conversation ?
The GP did not state that the parents should n't have the choice .
He is , in fact , simply ridiculing them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't understand how your reply adds to the conversation?
The GP did not state that the parents shouldn't have the choice.
He is, in fact, simply ridiculing them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936498</id>
	<title>Brilliant!</title>
	<author>fatherjoecode</author>
	<datestamp>1264704120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's a brilliant way to get you and your family into the US without having to resort to hiding in a shipping container or over staying a visitor's visa and then buying a fake identity.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's a brilliant way to get you and your family into the US without having to resort to hiding in a shipping container or over staying a visitor 's visa and then buying a fake identity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's a brilliant way to get you and your family into the US without having to resort to hiding in a shipping container or over staying a visitor's visa and then buying a fake identity.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941740</id>
	<title>Re:No story here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264675140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Apparently, in Germany at least, it's not their choice.  The real question is, does that make the family persecuted and worthy of asylum?</p><p>Lots of people move because they don't like the laws or policies of their city, county, state, or country but most of those cases are not worthy of asylum.  There is a well defined process for moving here without crying wolf.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Apparently , in Germany at least , it 's not their choice .
The real question is , does that make the family persecuted and worthy of asylum ? Lots of people move because they do n't like the laws or policies of their city , county , state , or country but most of those cases are not worthy of asylum .
There is a well defined process for moving here without crying wolf .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Apparently, in Germany at least, it's not their choice.
The real question is, does that make the family persecuted and worthy of asylum?Lots of people move because they don't like the laws or policies of their city, county, state, or country but most of those cases are not worthy of asylum.
There is a well defined process for moving here without crying wolf.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942916</id>
	<title>The Gates Are Open Now</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264679220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Funny. The only thing I learn from it, is that if you can't immigrate to the US the proper way, you start home educating your children, and then ask political asylum in the States.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Funny .
The only thing I learn from it , is that if you ca n't immigrate to the US the proper way , you start home educating your children , and then ask political asylum in the States .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Funny.
The only thing I learn from it, is that if you can't immigrate to the US the proper way, you start home educating your children, and then ask political asylum in the States.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30949984</id>
	<title>Re:I do it</title>
	<author>sac13</author>
	<datestamp>1264783260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>True. My daughter is a dentist.  She has told me that she has a good chance of identifying the home schooled kids by their behavior in her office.  They have a sense of unease about them in the office that kids who go to regular schools don't.</p><p>(She usually asks children about school while they are in the chair as part of the make-them-feel-comfortable chit-chat.)</p></div><p>Are you actually saying that being uneasy in the dentist chair is because they haven't been "socialized?"  I don't think I would consider that an appropriate context to evaluate how well people have been "socialized."</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>True .
My daughter is a dentist .
She has told me that she has a good chance of identifying the home schooled kids by their behavior in her office .
They have a sense of unease about them in the office that kids who go to regular schools do n't .
( She usually asks children about school while they are in the chair as part of the make-them-feel-comfortable chit-chat .
) Are you actually saying that being uneasy in the dentist chair is because they have n't been " socialized ?
" I do n't think I would consider that an appropriate context to evaluate how well people have been " socialized .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>True.
My daughter is a dentist.
She has told me that she has a good chance of identifying the home schooled kids by their behavior in her office.
They have a sense of unease about them in the office that kids who go to regular schools don't.
(She usually asks children about school while they are in the chair as part of the make-them-feel-comfortable chit-chat.
)Are you actually saying that being uneasy in the dentist chair is because they haven't been "socialized?
"  I don't think I would consider that an appropriate context to evaluate how well people have been "socialized.
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942068</id>
	<title>Re:Contradiction</title>
	<author>the\_saint1138</author>
	<datestamp>1264676160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Speaking from the perspective of someone who was homeschooled K-10th grade (public school for 11-12), I also am surprised at the hostility towards homeschooling. <br> <br>

Seriously, why all the negative stereotypes about homeschoolers? Maybe some kids' parents just want them to have a half-decent education. Honestly, take a good long look at the state of public education. <br> <br>

As for homeschoolers being anti-social, that much is true in many cases, but not necessarily so. I was not forced to socialize with other kids early on, and so I didn't. Later, my parents realized there was an issue and I became involved with homeschooling co-ops, 4-h, scouts, etc. The problem wasn't homeschooling, it was a lack of other forms of socialization. Who decided that during education was the best time and place for kids to learn socialization anyway? In my opinion, socialization during class-time was a huge distraction for my classmates.<br> <br>

It's amazing that so many here on Slashdot who wouldn't trust the government with a single shred of their data (if they didn't have to), would submit their kids to its learning institutions so willingly.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Speaking from the perspective of someone who was homeschooled K-10th grade ( public school for 11-12 ) , I also am surprised at the hostility towards homeschooling .
Seriously , why all the negative stereotypes about homeschoolers ?
Maybe some kids ' parents just want them to have a half-decent education .
Honestly , take a good long look at the state of public education .
As for homeschoolers being anti-social , that much is true in many cases , but not necessarily so .
I was not forced to socialize with other kids early on , and so I did n't .
Later , my parents realized there was an issue and I became involved with homeschooling co-ops , 4-h , scouts , etc .
The problem was n't homeschooling , it was a lack of other forms of socialization .
Who decided that during education was the best time and place for kids to learn socialization anyway ?
In my opinion , socialization during class-time was a huge distraction for my classmates .
It 's amazing that so many here on Slashdot who would n't trust the government with a single shred of their data ( if they did n't have to ) , would submit their kids to its learning institutions so willingly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Speaking from the perspective of someone who was homeschooled K-10th grade (public school for 11-12), I also am surprised at the hostility towards homeschooling.
Seriously, why all the negative stereotypes about homeschoolers?
Maybe some kids' parents just want them to have a half-decent education.
Honestly, take a good long look at the state of public education.
As for homeschoolers being anti-social, that much is true in many cases, but not necessarily so.
I was not forced to socialize with other kids early on, and so I didn't.
Later, my parents realized there was an issue and I became involved with homeschooling co-ops, 4-h, scouts, etc.
The problem wasn't homeschooling, it was a lack of other forms of socialization.
Who decided that during education was the best time and place for kids to learn socialization anyway?
In my opinion, socialization during class-time was a huge distraction for my classmates.
It's amazing that so many here on Slashdot who wouldn't trust the government with a single shred of their data (if they didn't have to), would submit their kids to its learning institutions so willingly.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937604</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938518</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>Tanuki64</author>
	<datestamp>1264709040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wonder what brainded fanatic modded you troll. Too bad I already posted in this thread. This is definitely worth an 'insightful' and the 'troll' an abuse.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wonder what brainded fanatic modded you troll .
Too bad I already posted in this thread .
This is definitely worth an 'insightful ' and the 'troll ' an abuse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wonder what brainded fanatic modded you troll.
Too bad I already posted in this thread.
This is definitely worth an 'insightful' and the 'troll' an abuse.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937270</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936906</id>
	<title>Re:You can homeschool all you want</title>
	<author>Mahalalel</author>
	<datestamp>1264705260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Right.... because state schools are completely unbiased.....</htmltext>
<tokenext>Right.... because state schools are completely unbiased.... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Right.... because state schools are completely unbiased.....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941436</id>
	<title>Re:No story here</title>
	<author>woodsworth</author>
	<datestamp>1264674000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>Well, <b>obviously</b> other religions can't offer any ethical guidance, and exposing the kids to them will clearly cause them to hate Christianity. Better not even expose them to other thoughts! And the best place to go for that? Here in the US.</p></div><p>Who the hell are YOU -- or any government -- to deprive the parents of their right to make that choice?  Ridicule it all you want, but it is THEIR choice.</p></div><p>Well, in fact it is not. It is one of those areas where you have to judge personal freedom against societal needs or desires. Like deciding whether it is ok to carry weapons in public or whether traffic is on the left or right side of the road. Different societies have different views on these issues.</p><p>

There are good reasons to make education an issue of public control. There might also good reasons to allow home-schooling.
Germany as a state / society has decided that it rather wants public control over where, what and when children learn. Other states like the US may handle this differently. As pointed out earlier, you don't have to send your kid to public school in Germany, there are private ones following different educational theories. You can even try to get your own school (not easy, but possible). But a child has to be in school somewhere, meaning be with other children and being exposed to ideas, material, subjects that have been agreed upon as being those that are relevant.</p><p>

So, it is one of those personal rights you have to give up being a member of society. Makes sense to any German I ever talked to (I'm one myself).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , obviously other religions ca n't offer any ethical guidance , and exposing the kids to them will clearly cause them to hate Christianity .
Better not even expose them to other thoughts !
And the best place to go for that ?
Here in the US.Who the hell are YOU -- or any government -- to deprive the parents of their right to make that choice ?
Ridicule it all you want , but it is THEIR choice.Well , in fact it is not .
It is one of those areas where you have to judge personal freedom against societal needs or desires .
Like deciding whether it is ok to carry weapons in public or whether traffic is on the left or right side of the road .
Different societies have different views on these issues .
There are good reasons to make education an issue of public control .
There might also good reasons to allow home-schooling .
Germany as a state / society has decided that it rather wants public control over where , what and when children learn .
Other states like the US may handle this differently .
As pointed out earlier , you do n't have to send your kid to public school in Germany , there are private ones following different educational theories .
You can even try to get your own school ( not easy , but possible ) .
But a child has to be in school somewhere , meaning be with other children and being exposed to ideas , material , subjects that have been agreed upon as being those that are relevant .
So , it is one of those personal rights you have to give up being a member of society .
Makes sense to any German I ever talked to ( I 'm one myself ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, obviously other religions can't offer any ethical guidance, and exposing the kids to them will clearly cause them to hate Christianity.
Better not even expose them to other thoughts!
And the best place to go for that?
Here in the US.Who the hell are YOU -- or any government -- to deprive the parents of their right to make that choice?
Ridicule it all you want, but it is THEIR choice.Well, in fact it is not.
It is one of those areas where you have to judge personal freedom against societal needs or desires.
Like deciding whether it is ok to carry weapons in public or whether traffic is on the left or right side of the road.
Different societies have different views on these issues.
There are good reasons to make education an issue of public control.
There might also good reasons to allow home-schooling.
Germany as a state / society has decided that it rather wants public control over where, what and when children learn.
Other states like the US may handle this differently.
As pointed out earlier, you don't have to send your kid to public school in Germany, there are private ones following different educational theories.
You can even try to get your own school (not easy, but possible).
But a child has to be in school somewhere, meaning be with other children and being exposed to ideas, material, subjects that have been agreed upon as being those that are relevant.
So, it is one of those personal rights you have to give up being a member of society.
Makes sense to any German I ever talked to (I'm one myself).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936426</id>
	<title>Really?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264703880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>While interesting on a social or educational perspective, what has this to do with 'news for nerds'? There isn't anything technical about this. Nothing geeky. It's just a random news story you'd find on Yahoo News (for example)...</htmltext>
<tokenext>While interesting on a social or educational perspective , what has this to do with 'news for nerds ' ?
There is n't anything technical about this .
Nothing geeky .
It 's just a random news story you 'd find on Yahoo News ( for example ) .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While interesting on a social or educational perspective, what has this to do with 'news for nerds'?
There isn't anything technical about this.
Nothing geeky.
It's just a random news story you'd find on Yahoo News (for example)...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938094</id>
	<title>Re:Religion, not schooling</title>
	<author>mdielmann</author>
	<datestamp>1264708020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>...just because something is protected by the free exercise clause of the 1st amendment to the US Constitution does not mean it is necessarily a fundamental human right which should give rise to an asylum claim. Germany is not subject the the US Constitution.</p></div><p>You're right - Americans are.  And so when a group of people came before an American judge and said, "We believe our rights are being violated, so we want to move here," the judge said, "Based on our laws and our constitution, I agree.  Come on in."<br>It will be more interesting when Muslims from France make the same claim...</p><p>P.S. Also, if you're going to enshrine "human rights" in your constitution, you should extend them to all humans in your domain, not just citizens.  Otherwise, admit the truth and call them "citizens' rights".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...just because something is protected by the free exercise clause of the 1st amendment to the US Constitution does not mean it is necessarily a fundamental human right which should give rise to an asylum claim .
Germany is not subject the the US Constitution.You 're right - Americans are .
And so when a group of people came before an American judge and said , " We believe our rights are being violated , so we want to move here , " the judge said , " Based on our laws and our constitution , I agree .
Come on in .
" It will be more interesting when Muslims from France make the same claim...P.S .
Also , if you 're going to enshrine " human rights " in your constitution , you should extend them to all humans in your domain , not just citizens .
Otherwise , admit the truth and call them " citizens ' rights " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ...just because something is protected by the free exercise clause of the 1st amendment to the US Constitution does not mean it is necessarily a fundamental human right which should give rise to an asylum claim.
Germany is not subject the the US Constitution.You're right - Americans are.
And so when a group of people came before an American judge and said, "We believe our rights are being violated, so we want to move here," the judge said, "Based on our laws and our constitution, I agree.
Come on in.
"It will be more interesting when Muslims from France make the same claim...P.S.
Also, if you're going to enshrine "human rights" in your constitution, you should extend them to all humans in your domain, not just citizens.
Otherwise, admit the truth and call them "citizens' rights".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936712</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608</id>
	<title>Re:No story here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264709280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Well, <b>obviously</b> other religions can't offer any ethical guidance, and exposing the kids to them will clearly cause them to hate Christianity. Better not even expose them to other thoughts! And the best place to go for that? Here in the US.</p></div><p>Who the hell are YOU -- or any government -- to deprive the parents of their right to make that choice?  Ridicule it all you want, but it is THEIR choice.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , obviously other religions ca n't offer any ethical guidance , and exposing the kids to them will clearly cause them to hate Christianity .
Better not even expose them to other thoughts !
And the best place to go for that ?
Here in the US.Who the hell are YOU -- or any government -- to deprive the parents of their right to make that choice ?
Ridicule it all you want , but it is THEIR choice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, obviously other religions can't offer any ethical guidance, and exposing the kids to them will clearly cause them to hate Christianity.
Better not even expose them to other thoughts!
And the best place to go for that?
Here in the US.Who the hell are YOU -- or any government -- to deprive the parents of their right to make that choice?
Ridicule it all you want, but it is THEIR choice.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939296</id>
	<title>This is great!</title>
	<author>roguegramma</author>
	<datestamp>1264711020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is great - now if I ever wanted to move to the US, I'd just violate some local laws that don't apply to the US and claim that I am a special group being prosecuted.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is great - now if I ever wanted to move to the US , I 'd just violate some local laws that do n't apply to the US and claim that I am a special group being prosecuted .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is great - now if I ever wanted to move to the US, I'd just violate some local laws that don't apply to the US and claim that I am a special group being prosecuted.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30951682</id>
	<title>European Court of Human Rights</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264789200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In September 2006, the European Court of Human Rights ruled that Germany's mandatory school attendance policy, along with the corresponding ban on homeschooling, is compatible with both European law and the European Convention on Human Rights.</p><p>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling\_in\_Germany</p><p>"In a landmark legal case commenced in 2003 at the European Court of Human Rights a homeschooling parent couple argued on behalf of their children that Germany's compulsory school attendance endangered their children's religious upbringing, promoted teaching inconsistent with their Christian faith &ndash; especially the German State's mandates relating to sex education in the schools &ndash; and contravened the declaration in the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union that "the State shall respect the right of parents to ensure education and teaching is in conformity with their own religious and philosophical convictions". In September 2006 the European Court of Human Rights upheld the German ban on homeschooling, stating "parents may not refuse... [compulsory schooling] on the basis of their convictions", and adding that the right to education "calls for regulation by the State". The European Court took the position that the plaintiffs were the children, not their parents, and declared "children are unable to foresee the consequences of their parents' decision for home education because of their young age.... Schools represent society, and it is in the children's interest to become part of that society. The parents' right to educate does not go as far as to deprive their children of that experience." The European Court endorsed a "carefully reasoned" decision of the German court concerning "the general interest of society to avoid the emergence of parallel societies based on separate philosophical convictions and the importance of integrating minorities into society."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In September 2006 , the European Court of Human Rights ruled that Germany 's mandatory school attendance policy , along with the corresponding ban on homeschooling , is compatible with both European law and the European Convention on Human Rights.http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling \ _in \ _Germany " In a landmark legal case commenced in 2003 at the European Court of Human Rights a homeschooling parent couple argued on behalf of their children that Germany 's compulsory school attendance endangered their children 's religious upbringing , promoted teaching inconsistent with their Christian faith    especially the German State 's mandates relating to sex education in the schools    and contravened the declaration in the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union that " the State shall respect the right of parents to ensure education and teaching is in conformity with their own religious and philosophical convictions " .
In September 2006 the European Court of Human Rights upheld the German ban on homeschooling , stating " parents may not refuse... [ compulsory schooling ] on the basis of their convictions " , and adding that the right to education " calls for regulation by the State " .
The European Court took the position that the plaintiffs were the children , not their parents , and declared " children are unable to foresee the consequences of their parents ' decision for home education because of their young age.... Schools represent society , and it is in the children 's interest to become part of that society .
The parents ' right to educate does not go as far as to deprive their children of that experience .
" The European Court endorsed a " carefully reasoned " decision of the German court concerning " the general interest of society to avoid the emergence of parallel societies based on separate philosophical convictions and the importance of integrating minorities into society .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In September 2006, the European Court of Human Rights ruled that Germany's mandatory school attendance policy, along with the corresponding ban on homeschooling, is compatible with both European law and the European Convention on Human Rights.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling\_in\_Germany"In a landmark legal case commenced in 2003 at the European Court of Human Rights a homeschooling parent couple argued on behalf of their children that Germany's compulsory school attendance endangered their children's religious upbringing, promoted teaching inconsistent with their Christian faith – especially the German State's mandates relating to sex education in the schools – and contravened the declaration in the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union that "the State shall respect the right of parents to ensure education and teaching is in conformity with their own religious and philosophical convictions".
In September 2006 the European Court of Human Rights upheld the German ban on homeschooling, stating "parents may not refuse... [compulsory schooling] on the basis of their convictions", and adding that the right to education "calls for regulation by the State".
The European Court took the position that the plaintiffs were the children, not their parents, and declared "children are unable to foresee the consequences of their parents' decision for home education because of their young age.... Schools represent society, and it is in the children's interest to become part of that society.
The parents' right to educate does not go as far as to deprive their children of that experience.
" The European Court endorsed a "carefully reasoned" decision of the German court concerning "the general interest of society to avoid the emergence of parallel societies based on separate philosophical convictions and the importance of integrating minorities into society.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938528</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>RedBear</author>
	<datestamp>1264709100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Homeschooling is in no way a human right. </p></div><p>Pardon? As long as the schooling meets minimum state testing requirements, it is and should always be the right of the parents to choose whether to put their child in public school, private school, or homeschool. Depending on where you go, the public or private school education available in your area may involve significant amounts of religious and philosophical propaganda which you won't necessarily want your young child subjected to, even here in the US where that isn't supposed to happen. What's important is that the child ends up getting a testably equivalent (or better) education to what public schooling provides, not that they be forced into attending a state-approved facility.</p><p>There are many people, particularly in the US, who would argue that you are utterly wrong on this point, and the law is behind them. Quite a lot of the folks who support homeschooling are NOT right-wing religious nuts, as you seem to imply with your subject line.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Homeschooling is in no way a human right .
Pardon ? As long as the schooling meets minimum state testing requirements , it is and should always be the right of the parents to choose whether to put their child in public school , private school , or homeschool .
Depending on where you go , the public or private school education available in your area may involve significant amounts of religious and philosophical propaganda which you wo n't necessarily want your young child subjected to , even here in the US where that is n't supposed to happen .
What 's important is that the child ends up getting a testably equivalent ( or better ) education to what public schooling provides , not that they be forced into attending a state-approved facility.There are many people , particularly in the US , who would argue that you are utterly wrong on this point , and the law is behind them .
Quite a lot of the folks who support homeschooling are NOT right-wing religious nuts , as you seem to imply with your subject line .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Homeschooling is in no way a human right.
Pardon? As long as the schooling meets minimum state testing requirements, it is and should always be the right of the parents to choose whether to put their child in public school, private school, or homeschool.
Depending on where you go, the public or private school education available in your area may involve significant amounts of religious and philosophical propaganda which you won't necessarily want your young child subjected to, even here in the US where that isn't supposed to happen.
What's important is that the child ends up getting a testably equivalent (or better) education to what public schooling provides, not that they be forced into attending a state-approved facility.There are many people, particularly in the US, who would argue that you are utterly wrong on this point, and the law is behind them.
Quite a lot of the folks who support homeschooling are NOT right-wing religious nuts, as you seem to imply with your subject line.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939916</id>
	<title>Human Rights?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264669800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Human Rights? Should I mention America's Patriot Act as a clear Human rights violation ?</p><p>This is pathetic. The German Governament, the evil beast that needs to be taken down.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Human Rights ?
Should I mention America 's Patriot Act as a clear Human rights violation ? This is pathetic .
The German Governament , the evil beast that needs to be taken down .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Human Rights?
Should I mention America's Patriot Act as a clear Human rights violation ?This is pathetic.
The German Governament, the evil beast that needs to be taken down.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937090</id>
	<title>Re:So I presume we will immediately grant asylum..</title>
	<author>gnapster</author>
	<datestamp>1264705800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not just yet.  TFA says that this case did not make it up to a sufficiently high court to set a precedent.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not just yet .
TFA says that this case did not make it up to a sufficiently high court to set a precedent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not just yet.
TFA says that this case did not make it up to a sufficiently high court to set a precedent.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936524</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937710</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>characterZer0</author>
	<datestamp>1264707120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>vast majority</p></div></blockquote><p>[citation needed]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>vast majority [ citation needed ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>vast majority[citation needed]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936606</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944268</id>
	<title>Its not homeschooling vs. not...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264687080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Its whether someone should be granted asylum for wanting to school their children at home, when there are plenty of Mexican families that just want to raise their children in our PUBLIC school system, and are willing to stuff three families into a three bedroom house to do so. Or Haitians who just want their children not to starve. Please, this is friggin' ridiculous.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Its whether someone should be granted asylum for wanting to school their children at home , when there are plenty of Mexican families that just want to raise their children in our PUBLIC school system , and are willing to stuff three families into a three bedroom house to do so .
Or Haitians who just want their children not to starve .
Please , this is friggin ' ridiculous .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its whether someone should be granted asylum for wanting to school their children at home, when there are plenty of Mexican families that just want to raise their children in our PUBLIC school system, and are willing to stuff three families into a three bedroom house to do so.
Or Haitians who just want their children not to starve.
Please, this is friggin' ridiculous.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937350</id>
	<title>Re:I do it</title>
	<author>Pinky3</author>
	<datestamp>1264706400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>How do you address the social aspects of school? A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people, larger groups, and authority respectfully and responsibly. Its unfortunate, but part of being a productive adult is working with difficult strangers or at least working around them.</i></p><p>True. My daughter is a dentist.  She has told me that she has a good chance of identifying the home schooled kids by their behavior in her office.  They have a sense of unease about them in the office that kids who go to regular schools don't.</p><p>(She usually asks children about school while they are in the chair as part of the make-them-feel-comfortable chit-chat.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How do you address the social aspects of school ?
A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people , larger groups , and authority respectfully and responsibly .
Its unfortunate , but part of being a productive adult is working with difficult strangers or at least working around them.True .
My daughter is a dentist .
She has told me that she has a good chance of identifying the home schooled kids by their behavior in her office .
They have a sense of unease about them in the office that kids who go to regular schools do n't .
( She usually asks children about school while they are in the chair as part of the make-them-feel-comfortable chit-chat .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How do you address the social aspects of school?
A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people, larger groups, and authority respectfully and responsibly.
Its unfortunate, but part of being a productive adult is working with difficult strangers or at least working around them.True.
My daughter is a dentist.
She has told me that she has a good chance of identifying the home schooled kids by their behavior in her office.
They have a sense of unease about them in the office that kids who go to regular schools don't.
(She usually asks children about school while they are in the chair as part of the make-them-feel-comfortable chit-chat.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938614</id>
	<title>Re:I do it</title>
	<author>Bob-taro</author>
	<datestamp>1264709340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>How do you address the social aspects of school? A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people, larger groups, and authority respectfully and responsibly. Its unfortunate, but part of being a productive adult is working with difficult strangers or at least working around them.</p></div><p>I have a friend who home schools his sons and he told me of a unique solution to the socialization problem:  At least once a week, he would take them aside, beat them up, and steal their lunch money.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How do you address the social aspects of school ?
A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people , larger groups , and authority respectfully and responsibly .
Its unfortunate , but part of being a productive adult is working with difficult strangers or at least working around them.I have a friend who home schools his sons and he told me of a unique solution to the socialization problem : At least once a week , he would take them aside , beat them up , and steal their lunch money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How do you address the social aspects of school?
A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people, larger groups, and authority respectfully and responsibly.
Its unfortunate, but part of being a productive adult is working with difficult strangers or at least working around them.I have a friend who home schools his sons and he told me of a unique solution to the socialization problem:  At least once a week, he would take them aside, beat them up, and steal their lunch money.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30945874</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>decoy256</author>
	<datestamp>1264702320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah because it was homeschoolers that put people in concentration camps, not the government. Hitler with his mandatory homeschooling programs is what spread hatred of Jews.</p><p>

Jeez... get a clue.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah because it was homeschoolers that put people in concentration camps , not the government .
Hitler with his mandatory homeschooling programs is what spread hatred of Jews .
Jeez... get a clue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah because it was homeschoolers that put people in concentration camps, not the government.
Hitler with his mandatory homeschooling programs is what spread hatred of Jews.
Jeez... get a clue.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937620</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936518</id>
	<title>You can homeschool all you want</title>
	<author>BadAnalogyGuy</author>
	<datestamp>1264704180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The only stipulation here is that the kids are taught in a classroom setting by certified teachers according to a strict curriculum. Any additional schooling a parent might want to do can be done before or after school and on weekends.</p><p>Parents have plenty of rights, but the right to destroy their kid's future by teaching them anti-science and borderline racist interpretations of history ought not be one. We have whole states here in the US that are filled with nincompoops because of homeschooling. Homeschooling begets more homeschooling in an endless cycle. When you try to push morals and religion into education you end up with none of the above.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The only stipulation here is that the kids are taught in a classroom setting by certified teachers according to a strict curriculum .
Any additional schooling a parent might want to do can be done before or after school and on weekends.Parents have plenty of rights , but the right to destroy their kid 's future by teaching them anti-science and borderline racist interpretations of history ought not be one .
We have whole states here in the US that are filled with nincompoops because of homeschooling .
Homeschooling begets more homeschooling in an endless cycle .
When you try to push morals and religion into education you end up with none of the above .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only stipulation here is that the kids are taught in a classroom setting by certified teachers according to a strict curriculum.
Any additional schooling a parent might want to do can be done before or after school and on weekends.Parents have plenty of rights, but the right to destroy their kid's future by teaching them anti-science and borderline racist interpretations of history ought not be one.
We have whole states here in the US that are filled with nincompoops because of homeschooling.
Homeschooling begets more homeschooling in an endless cycle.
When you try to push morals and religion into education you end up with none of the above.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939370</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>pudge</author>
	<datestamp>1264711200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Homeschooling is in no way a human right.</p></div><p>False.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Homeschooling is in no way a human right.False .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Homeschooling is in no way a human right.False.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944004</id>
	<title>Re:So I presume we will immediately grant asylum..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264685220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From my understanding, they were granted asylum because they were being persecuted for homeschooling.  Not being able to attend a school is different than having government action taken against one for attending a school.  (Not that I don't agree with you in that the effect is the same.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From my understanding , they were granted asylum because they were being persecuted for homeschooling .
Not being able to attend a school is different than having government action taken against one for attending a school .
( Not that I do n't agree with you in that the effect is the same .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From my understanding, they were granted asylum because they were being persecuted for homeschooling.
Not being able to attend a school is different than having government action taken against one for attending a school.
(Not that I don't agree with you in that the effect is the same.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936524</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941770</id>
	<title>Re:No story here</title>
	<author>Improv</author>
	<datestamp>1264675260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Who the hell are YOU -- or any parents -- to deprive the children of their right to a standard education?</p><p>See, with that phrasing, it's easy to turn it around. The issue here is precisely whether the parental interest in making decisions for the family or the state interest in providing a standard education and inculturation for its people is more important.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Who the hell are YOU -- or any parents -- to deprive the children of their right to a standard education ? See , with that phrasing , it 's easy to turn it around .
The issue here is precisely whether the parental interest in making decisions for the family or the state interest in providing a standard education and inculturation for its people is more important .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who the hell are YOU -- or any parents -- to deprive the children of their right to a standard education?See, with that phrasing, it's easy to turn it around.
The issue here is precisely whether the parental interest in making decisions for the family or the state interest in providing a standard education and inculturation for its people is more important.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936504</id>
	<title>Hey Germany</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264704120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>We know we're friends and all now... and you've grown up quite a bit, but still... prooobably shouldn't be taking risks with the whole (human rights) thing. Won't look good.</htmltext>
<tokenext>We know we 're friends and all now... and you 've grown up quite a bit , but still... prooobably should n't be taking risks with the whole ( human rights ) thing .
Wo n't look good .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We know we're friends and all now... and you've grown up quite a bit, but still... prooobably shouldn't be taking risks with the whole (human rights) thing.
Won't look good.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30950258</id>
	<title>Re:Homeschooling =/= fundamentalist schooling</title>
	<author>sac13</author>
	<datestamp>1264784220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This stigma against homeschooling has GOT to go already. Not all homeschoolers are teaching racial bias or inaccurate science. Not by far.</p></div><p>The mantra is repeated so that parents that have outsourced their entire responsibility to ensure their children are educated can feel like they aren't making the easy choice to be irresposible...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This stigma against homeschooling has GOT to go already .
Not all homeschoolers are teaching racial bias or inaccurate science .
Not by far.The mantra is repeated so that parents that have outsourced their entire responsibility to ensure their children are educated can feel like they are n't making the easy choice to be irresposible.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This stigma against homeschooling has GOT to go already.
Not all homeschoolers are teaching racial bias or inaccurate science.
Not by far.The mantra is repeated so that parents that have outsourced their entire responsibility to ensure their children are educated can feel like they aren't making the easy choice to be irresposible...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936876</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941182</id>
	<title>Re:I do it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264673280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> <i>How do you address the social aspects of school? A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people, larger groups, and authority respectfully and responsibly. Its unfortunate, but part of being a productive adult is working with difficult strangers or at least working around them.</i> </p><p>True. My daughter is a dentist.  She has told me that she has a good chance of identifying the home schooled kids by their behavior in her office.  They have a sense of unease about them in the office that kids who go to regular schools don't.</p><p>(She usually asks children about school while they are in the chair as part of the make-them-feel-comfortable chit-chat.)</p></div><p>Please take this kind of "evidence" with a grain of salt.  We homeschool, and I've come to notice over the years that when people find out my kids are homeschooled, they only see the part of my kids' personality that they expect to see in a homeschooled kid.  If they think homeschooled kids are perfect, they notice when my kids are polite, if they think homeschooled kids are weird or unsocialized, they notice when my kids are shy.  Overall, I think my kids are pretty normal, which means that sometimes they're sweet and thoughtful, and sometimes they're rude, and sometimes they're astonishingly self-possessed, and sometimes they're incredibly awkward and shy.</p><p>I'd also suggest that the homeschooled kids may pick up on her disapproval of homeschooling (which probably feels like disapproval of them) and that might be why they seem uncomfortable.</p><p>Regarding how to address the social aspects of school, I've got to say that I don't want my kids to learn the social skills schools teach.  I want them to learn the rules of the real world.  In the real world, they have many more opportunities to interact with new people and larger groups than they would if the spent almost all their time in one building filled with children from their neighborhood.  As for 'learning to deal with authority respectfully and responsibly' - that's not a huge goal of mine-- I want them to learn to treat everyone respectfully, and to be aware of and take responsibility for the consequences of their behavior, but I have no need to teach my children to kowtow to anyone.</p><p>A public school classroom has very little in common with the real world, and if you doubt that, think of the last time someone said that an event reminded them of high school.  I'd bet anything they didn't mean that it was wonderful growth experience.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How do you address the social aspects of school ?
A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people , larger groups , and authority respectfully and responsibly .
Its unfortunate , but part of being a productive adult is working with difficult strangers or at least working around them .
True. My daughter is a dentist .
She has told me that she has a good chance of identifying the home schooled kids by their behavior in her office .
They have a sense of unease about them in the office that kids who go to regular schools do n't .
( She usually asks children about school while they are in the chair as part of the make-them-feel-comfortable chit-chat .
) Please take this kind of " evidence " with a grain of salt .
We homeschool , and I 've come to notice over the years that when people find out my kids are homeschooled , they only see the part of my kids ' personality that they expect to see in a homeschooled kid .
If they think homeschooled kids are perfect , they notice when my kids are polite , if they think homeschooled kids are weird or unsocialized , they notice when my kids are shy .
Overall , I think my kids are pretty normal , which means that sometimes they 're sweet and thoughtful , and sometimes they 're rude , and sometimes they 're astonishingly self-possessed , and sometimes they 're incredibly awkward and shy.I 'd also suggest that the homeschooled kids may pick up on her disapproval of homeschooling ( which probably feels like disapproval of them ) and that might be why they seem uncomfortable.Regarding how to address the social aspects of school , I 've got to say that I do n't want my kids to learn the social skills schools teach .
I want them to learn the rules of the real world .
In the real world , they have many more opportunities to interact with new people and larger groups than they would if the spent almost all their time in one building filled with children from their neighborhood .
As for 'learning to deal with authority respectfully and responsibly ' - that 's not a huge goal of mine-- I want them to learn to treat everyone respectfully , and to be aware of and take responsibility for the consequences of their behavior , but I have no need to teach my children to kowtow to anyone.A public school classroom has very little in common with the real world , and if you doubt that , think of the last time someone said that an event reminded them of high school .
I 'd bet anything they did n't mean that it was wonderful growth experience .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> How do you address the social aspects of school?
A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people, larger groups, and authority respectfully and responsibly.
Its unfortunate, but part of being a productive adult is working with difficult strangers or at least working around them.
True. My daughter is a dentist.
She has told me that she has a good chance of identifying the home schooled kids by their behavior in her office.
They have a sense of unease about them in the office that kids who go to regular schools don't.
(She usually asks children about school while they are in the chair as part of the make-them-feel-comfortable chit-chat.
)Please take this kind of "evidence" with a grain of salt.
We homeschool, and I've come to notice over the years that when people find out my kids are homeschooled, they only see the part of my kids' personality that they expect to see in a homeschooled kid.
If they think homeschooled kids are perfect, they notice when my kids are polite, if they think homeschooled kids are weird or unsocialized, they notice when my kids are shy.
Overall, I think my kids are pretty normal, which means that sometimes they're sweet and thoughtful, and sometimes they're rude, and sometimes they're astonishingly self-possessed, and sometimes they're incredibly awkward and shy.I'd also suggest that the homeschooled kids may pick up on her disapproval of homeschooling (which probably feels like disapproval of them) and that might be why they seem uncomfortable.Regarding how to address the social aspects of school, I've got to say that I don't want my kids to learn the social skills schools teach.
I want them to learn the rules of the real world.
In the real world, they have many more opportunities to interact with new people and larger groups than they would if the spent almost all their time in one building filled with children from their neighborhood.
As for 'learning to deal with authority respectfully and responsibly' - that's not a huge goal of mine-- I want them to learn to treat everyone respectfully, and to be aware of and take responsibility for the consequences of their behavior, but I have no need to teach my children to kowtow to anyone.A public school classroom has very little in common with the real world, and if you doubt that, think of the last time someone said that an event reminded them of high school.
I'd bet anything they didn't mean that it was wonderful growth experience.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>Synn</author>
	<datestamp>1264705080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Homeschooling is in no way a human right.</p><p>I totally disagree. It's the basic right to raise your children with your own views and values. Today that protects the "Christian Activists", but it also protects any family from being forced to have their children educated by the government.</p><p>If you think a government being able to force you to send your children to someplace to teach them what the government wants them to learn isn't a violation of a basic human right, then I don't know what kind of rights you think humans should have.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Homeschooling is in no way a human right.I totally disagree .
It 's the basic right to raise your children with your own views and values .
Today that protects the " Christian Activists " , but it also protects any family from being forced to have their children educated by the government.If you think a government being able to force you to send your children to someplace to teach them what the government wants them to learn is n't a violation of a basic human right , then I do n't know what kind of rights you think humans should have .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Homeschooling is in no way a human right.I totally disagree.
It's the basic right to raise your children with your own views and values.
Today that protects the "Christian Activists", but it also protects any family from being forced to have their children educated by the government.If you think a government being able to force you to send your children to someplace to teach them what the government wants them to learn isn't a violation of a basic human right, then I don't know what kind of rights you think humans should have.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942502</id>
	<title>Re:Christian Activist Judges Make Me Sick</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1264677780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I totally disagree. It's the basic right to raise your children with your own views and values.</p></div></blockquote><p>No, it isn't, not in America anyway.  I doubt it is in any country anywhere.</p><p>Society has put limits on this 'right', in order to protect children from extremists and idiots.  You are allowed a certain level of freedom, but we as a society have said that we only allow it to a certain level and you must comply with some basic standards for education so your child can eventually have the opportunity to make their own decisions without being brainwashed by you to only believe YOUR viewpoints.  You are also required to teach them certain specific things if you want to teach them yourself.</p><p>Its a compromise between letting you teach your children your beliefs and preventing you from making them nutjobs (which doesn't require a prefix of religious, there are plenty of other ways to be intolerant bastards).  You can teach them and educate them your way, but you also have to expose them to certain other bits of knowledge that we as a society have decided that EVERYONE should know.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I totally disagree .
It 's the basic right to raise your children with your own views and values.No , it is n't , not in America anyway .
I doubt it is in any country anywhere.Society has put limits on this 'right ' , in order to protect children from extremists and idiots .
You are allowed a certain level of freedom , but we as a society have said that we only allow it to a certain level and you must comply with some basic standards for education so your child can eventually have the opportunity to make their own decisions without being brainwashed by you to only believe YOUR viewpoints .
You are also required to teach them certain specific things if you want to teach them yourself.Its a compromise between letting you teach your children your beliefs and preventing you from making them nutjobs ( which does n't require a prefix of religious , there are plenty of other ways to be intolerant bastards ) .
You can teach them and educate them your way , but you also have to expose them to certain other bits of knowledge that we as a society have decided that EVERYONE should know .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I totally disagree.
It's the basic right to raise your children with your own views and values.No, it isn't, not in America anyway.
I doubt it is in any country anywhere.Society has put limits on this 'right', in order to protect children from extremists and idiots.
You are allowed a certain level of freedom, but we as a society have said that we only allow it to a certain level and you must comply with some basic standards for education so your child can eventually have the opportunity to make their own decisions without being brainwashed by you to only believe YOUR viewpoints.
You are also required to teach them certain specific things if you want to teach them yourself.Its a compromise between letting you teach your children your beliefs and preventing you from making them nutjobs (which doesn't require a prefix of religious, there are plenty of other ways to be intolerant bastards).
You can teach them and educate them your way, but you also have to expose them to certain other bits of knowledge that we as a society have decided that EVERYONE should know.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936764</id>
	<title>Re:Good</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264704840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"albeit potenially socially awkward children."</p><p>I was homeschooled, my husband was homeschooled and we know many many people who were homeschooled and I can assure that socially awkward is not nearly the problem people make it out to be.  In fact, homeschooled kids tend to be better at socializing with all age groups rather than just their own.  I have, however, met some homeschooled kids that were inept and illiterate so it does have to be regulated, but since I've encountered people coming out of the Public school system with the same problem, I think that is a more a generic parenting issue.</p><p>It is probably still true that homeschooled kids are crappy spellers...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" albeit potenially socially awkward children .
" I was homeschooled , my husband was homeschooled and we know many many people who were homeschooled and I can assure that socially awkward is not nearly the problem people make it out to be .
In fact , homeschooled kids tend to be better at socializing with all age groups rather than just their own .
I have , however , met some homeschooled kids that were inept and illiterate so it does have to be regulated , but since I 've encountered people coming out of the Public school system with the same problem , I think that is a more a generic parenting issue.It is probably still true that homeschooled kids are crappy spellers.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"albeit potenially socially awkward children.
"I was homeschooled, my husband was homeschooled and we know many many people who were homeschooled and I can assure that socially awkward is not nearly the problem people make it out to be.
In fact, homeschooled kids tend to be better at socializing with all age groups rather than just their own.
I have, however, met some homeschooled kids that were inept and illiterate so it does have to be regulated, but since I've encountered people coming out of the Public school system with the same problem, I think that is a more a generic parenting issue.It is probably still true that homeschooled kids are crappy spellers...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939416</id>
	<title>Germany is on the axis of evil?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264711320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I found the official statement of the HSLDA:</p><p>http://www.hslda.org/hs/international/Germany/201001260.asp</p><p>Quote: "Germany is in the company of countries like China, North Korea and others where fundamental human rights are not respected. Germany&rsquo;s behavior exposes the totalitarian character of the German school law that takes away a parent&rsquo;s right to educate their children."</p><p>As citizen of Germany I can't believe, that an american judge (or someone else) compares Germany to China and North Korea when it comes to human rights. I haven't seen any public executions until now and i'm not suppressed in any way by my government.</p><p>For those who didn't know: Germany HAS a constitution. Some people should read it before they make such statements. It's even available as pdf for downloading:</p><p>https://www.btg-bestellservice.de/index.php?navi=1&amp;subnavi=68&amp;anr=80201000</p><p>(Click "Diesen Artikel k&#246;nnen Sie hier direkt herunterladen" )</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I found the official statement of the HSLDA : http : //www.hslda.org/hs/international/Germany/201001260.aspQuote : " Germany is in the company of countries like China , North Korea and others where fundamental human rights are not respected .
Germany    s behavior exposes the totalitarian character of the German school law that takes away a parent    s right to educate their children .
" As citizen of Germany I ca n't believe , that an american judge ( or someone else ) compares Germany to China and North Korea when it comes to human rights .
I have n't seen any public executions until now and i 'm not suppressed in any way by my government.For those who did n't know : Germany HAS a constitution .
Some people should read it before they make such statements .
It 's even available as pdf for downloading : https : //www.btg-bestellservice.de/index.php ? navi = 1&amp;subnavi = 68&amp;anr = 80201000 ( Click " Diesen Artikel k   nnen Sie hier direkt herunterladen " )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I found the official statement of the HSLDA:http://www.hslda.org/hs/international/Germany/201001260.aspQuote: "Germany is in the company of countries like China, North Korea and others where fundamental human rights are not respected.
Germany’s behavior exposes the totalitarian character of the German school law that takes away a parent’s right to educate their children.
"As citizen of Germany I can't believe, that an american judge (or someone else) compares Germany to China and North Korea when it comes to human rights.
I haven't seen any public executions until now and i'm not suppressed in any way by my government.For those who didn't know: Germany HAS a constitution.
Some people should read it before they make such statements.
It's even available as pdf for downloading:https://www.btg-bestellservice.de/index.php?navi=1&amp;subnavi=68&amp;anr=80201000(Click "Diesen Artikel können Sie hier direkt herunterladen" )
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937314</id>
	<title>Re:I do it</title>
	<author>wisnoskij</author>
	<datestamp>1264706280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>"A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people, larger groups, and authority respectfully and responsibly."<br>
I do not know what school you went to, but at my high school it looked from my perspective that the kids just learned more about how to break the rules and get away with it then any respect for authority.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people , larger groups , and authority respectfully and responsibly .
" I do not know what school you went to , but at my high school it looked from my perspective that the kids just learned more about how to break the rules and get away with it then any respect for authority .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"A valuable part of being in school was learning how to interact with new people, larger groups, and authority respectfully and responsibly.
"
I do not know what school you went to, but at my high school it looked from my perspective that the kids just learned more about how to break the rules and get away with it then any respect for authority.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850</parent>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_35</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937152
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937630
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_21</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936862
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_105</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936606
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937464
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30943000
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_87</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940556
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_111</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936876
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938512
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_45</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936606
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937588
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936502
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941966
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_115</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936518
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936906
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_95</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936712
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942750
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_113</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936504
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937698
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942696
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_53</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936736
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937892
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_64</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936736
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938486
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_137</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937270
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938324
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_148</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936518
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939078
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_15</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936502
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941770
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_26</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936504
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936638
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937000
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_74</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936502
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940986
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_142</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942502
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_36</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936934
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944902
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_82</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936876
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30953030
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_100</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936524
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944004
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_118</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936504
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936638
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937352
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938950
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_58</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936532
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938614
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_92</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936532
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937314
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944854
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_90</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936712
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938094
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_128</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938402
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940288
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944388
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936606
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936930
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936712
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30947000
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_63</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936958
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939418
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_39</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936532
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941338
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_25</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936532
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30945108
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_71</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936606
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939018
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_49</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936712
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937548
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30945444
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_107</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940652
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_47</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937430
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_81</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30945070
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938550
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_117</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936504
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940764
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_121</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936876
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30950258
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_55</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937976
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_66</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937684
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_131</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938528
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_76</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936532
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937350
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30949984
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_34</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937604
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30947330
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_104</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936532
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939348
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.31021738
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_84</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936504
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936638
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938018
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30957722
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_42</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936736
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937916
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936502
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940814
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_94</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936712
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944002
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_52</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936502
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939558
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30943996
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_110</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936498
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937382
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938574
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_134</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937620
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30945874
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_145</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936606
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937770
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936504
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936638
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939788
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_120</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936504
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939042
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_79</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936736
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30950188
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_65</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936712
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937548
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30946516
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_23</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936760
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937378
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_89</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936532
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940382
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_147</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937604
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942068
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_73</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936532
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30949886
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_31</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936502
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940924
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_97</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936532
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937350
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941182
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_83</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936518
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937290
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_41</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938456
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937628
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_17</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939008
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_28</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936518
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937584
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30946790
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_60</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937270
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30951648
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_38</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936524
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937090
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_144</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936532
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937246
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938972
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_70</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936524
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941088
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_106</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936736
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939440
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_44</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936764
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941272
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_114</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936518
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938980
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_54</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936502
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940388
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944334
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_138</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937270
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938518
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_136</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936532
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937350
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941822
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_27</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937678
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_109</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936776
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939164
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_101</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937604
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944760
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936712
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937548
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30945010
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_33</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936606
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938872
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_119</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936502
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941518
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_99</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936518
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939022
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_123</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936606
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936968
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_57</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936504
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936638
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938810
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_103</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936518
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938290
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_68</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936524
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942600
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_43</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936606
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937710
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936622
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936956
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_127</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936524
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938034
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_133</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941804
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_19</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936502
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939880
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_125</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936776
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939524
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_78</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936958
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939616
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_51</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936934
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30957578
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_62</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936760
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937590
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_20</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936532
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938288
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_135</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936876
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942512
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_86</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936502
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940206
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_146</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936532
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937350
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942248
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_72</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938284
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_30</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936532
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942056
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_48</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942082
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_96</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936760
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938282
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30985472
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_112</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936504
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936638
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938844
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_80</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936532
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941438
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941204
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_16</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936736
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939688
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_122</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936958
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30953108
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_67</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936532
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937350
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30943216
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_130</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936502
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939798
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940822
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_149</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936524
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939546
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_141</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936504
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936638
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30952750
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_29</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938030
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_75</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938402
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942634
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944270
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_61</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938350
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_85</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936524
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937306
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_37</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936958
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940274
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_59</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936502
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939968
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_93</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936524
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936960
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_91</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936504
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30946724
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_129</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936532
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30943142
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_13</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936876
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940002
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_24</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936518
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936834
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936518
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938336
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_22</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936876
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937084
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942920
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_139</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937270
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937990
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_108</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936502
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941436
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_88</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936502
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941740
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_46</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939516
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_140</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936606
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937788
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_32</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936622
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938714
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_116</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936524
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944594
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_98</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936518
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937706
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_56</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936502
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940296
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_102</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939370
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_40</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936532
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937350
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941978
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936736
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939474
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936532
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937350
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940496
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_126</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937176
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938568
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_18</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942246
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_124</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939038
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_50</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936502
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939682
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_69</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938882
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942432
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_132</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938348
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_143</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937274
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30951802
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1542225_77</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936502
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941594
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944710
</commentlist>
</thread>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_28_1542225.4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937152
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937630
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_28_1542225.2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936532
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936850
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939348
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.31021738
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937350
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941978
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941822
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941182
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940496
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30943216
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942248
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30949984
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941338
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937246
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938972
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940382
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30943142
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30945108
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941438
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30949886
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938288
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942056
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937314
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944854
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938614
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_28_1542225.16</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936760
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937590
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938282
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30985472
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937378
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_28_1542225.14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936426
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_28_1542225.17</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936490
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_28_1542225.15</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936514
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936958
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939616
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30953108
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940274
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939418
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937976
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939038
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936764
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941272
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936934
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30957578
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944902
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937678
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936606
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939018
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937588
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936968
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937770
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937710
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937464
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30943000
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936930
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938872
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937788
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_28_1542225.18</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936622
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938714
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936956
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_28_1542225.9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936736
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937916
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939474
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939440
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938486
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30950188
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939688
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937892
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_28_1542225.23</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936712
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30947000
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944002
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942750
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937548
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30946516
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30945444
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30945010
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938094
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_28_1542225.7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939416
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_28_1542225.19</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936812
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_28_1542225.21</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936580
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938528
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938348
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938574
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936844
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940556
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938882
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942432
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938030
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940652
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937430
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937270
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938324
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937990
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30951648
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938518
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937620
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30945874
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942246
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938284
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942502
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938350
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937274
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30951802
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938550
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941204
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939516
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938456
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939008
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941804
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937628
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942082
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939370
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30945070
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937684
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936862
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_28_1542225.12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940800
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_28_1542225.10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936876
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30953030
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942512
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938512
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30950258
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937084
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942920
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940002
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_28_1542225.13</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937604
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942068
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30947330
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944760
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_28_1542225.24</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939250
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_28_1542225.8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936504
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936638
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939788
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937352
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938950
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30952750
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938810
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937000
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938018
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30957722
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938844
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30946724
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937698
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942696
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939042
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940764
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_28_1542225.11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937318
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_28_1542225.22</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936502
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938608
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941436
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939968
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940986
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940388
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944334
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941770
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940814
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941594
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944710
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941740
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939798
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940822
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939682
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939880
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940296
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941966
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941518
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939558
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30943996
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940206
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940924
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_28_1542225.6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936524
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944004
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944594
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937306
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942600
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937090
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938034
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939546
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30941088
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936960
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_28_1542225.5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936518
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939078
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938336
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937290
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938980
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939022
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936906
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937584
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30946790
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937706
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936834
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938290
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_28_1542225.20</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938402
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30942634
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944270
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30940288
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30944388
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_28_1542225.0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936776
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939164
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30939524
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_28_1542225.3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937176
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30938568
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_28_1542225.1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30936498
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1542225.30937382
</commentlist>
</conversation>
