<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_01_26_2358237</id>
	<title>Canadian Android Carrier Forcing Firmware Update</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1264522740000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>Wolfier writes <i>"For wireless carrier Rogers in Canada, it seems that 'Customer Safety' only becomes a concern after <a href="http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1612180">months of neglect</a>. Rogers is the only GSM carrier in Canada and so the only choice for Android users. Months ago, a customer called Rogers to report a firmware bug that was preventing users from making 911 calls under certain circumstances, and informed the carrier that Google had fixed the bug (<a href="http://navlauncher.madcowsolutions.com/rogers-911-issue.mp3">recording of that call</a>). But Rogers is only doing something about it now &mdash; namely, <a href="http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=623416">cutting data access of paying customers</a> until they <a href="http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=622833">accept a mandatory firmware upgrade</a> that not only fixes the 911 problem, but also contains 'extra' features that prevent users from ever gaining root access to their phones &mdash; even non-subsidized ones. And some phones are also <a href="http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=622534">getting bricked</a> by this 'official' update. The moral: we really need to open up the competition here up North."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wolfier writes " For wireless carrier Rogers in Canada , it seems that 'Customer Safety ' only becomes a concern after months of neglect .
Rogers is the only GSM carrier in Canada and so the only choice for Android users .
Months ago , a customer called Rogers to report a firmware bug that was preventing users from making 911 calls under certain circumstances , and informed the carrier that Google had fixed the bug ( recording of that call ) .
But Rogers is only doing something about it now    namely , cutting data access of paying customers until they accept a mandatory firmware upgrade that not only fixes the 911 problem , but also contains 'extra ' features that prevent users from ever gaining root access to their phones    even non-subsidized ones .
And some phones are also getting bricked by this 'official ' update .
The moral : we really need to open up the competition here up North .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wolfier writes "For wireless carrier Rogers in Canada, it seems that 'Customer Safety' only becomes a concern after months of neglect.
Rogers is the only GSM carrier in Canada and so the only choice for Android users.
Months ago, a customer called Rogers to report a firmware bug that was preventing users from making 911 calls under certain circumstances, and informed the carrier that Google had fixed the bug (recording of that call).
But Rogers is only doing something about it now — namely, cutting data access of paying customers until they accept a mandatory firmware upgrade that not only fixes the 911 problem, but also contains 'extra' features that prevent users from ever gaining root access to their phones — even non-subsidized ones.
And some phones are also getting bricked by this 'official' update.
The moral: we really need to open up the competition here up North.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913548</id>
	<title>Rogers is not the only one anymore</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264526760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Rogers is not the only GSM provider in Canada now,  Bell and Telus have turned up a combined HSPA network,  and there is also Wind,  and others coming on stream soon.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Rogers is not the only GSM provider in Canada now , Bell and Telus have turned up a combined HSPA network , and there is also Wind , and others coming on stream soon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Rogers is not the only GSM provider in Canada now,  Bell and Telus have turned up a combined HSPA network,  and there is also Wind,  and others coming on stream soon.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913794</id>
	<title>Android fanboyism</title>
	<author>BhaKi</author>
	<datestamp>1264529280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Android fanboys never had a solid reason to claim that Android is more open than iPhone. Sure, it runs (modified) Linux. But that doesn't imply openness.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Android fanboys never had a solid reason to claim that Android is more open than iPhone .
Sure , it runs ( modified ) Linux .
But that does n't imply openness .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Android fanboys never had a solid reason to claim that Android is more open than iPhone.
Sure, it runs (modified) Linux.
But that doesn't imply openness.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30916880</id>
	<title>Re:GSM Providers</title>
	<author>c</author>
	<datestamp>1264605900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Rogers is no longer the only GSM carrier. At the end<br>&gt; of '09 Telus and Bell launched their own GSM networks.<br>&gt; So counting Fido (owned by Rogers) there are now four<br>&gt; Canadian GSM based carriers.</p><p>Plenty of choice, Canadian telecom style.</p><p>Now, instead of having to share my cell with a burly psychotic rapist axe murderer, I can choose from four of them. If I'm lucky I'll pick the one who uses the most lube...</p><p>I'll just stick with a dumb voice-only phone until someone beats some competition into these assholes.</p><p>c.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Rogers is no longer the only GSM carrier .
At the end &gt; of '09 Telus and Bell launched their own GSM networks. &gt; So counting Fido ( owned by Rogers ) there are now four &gt; Canadian GSM based carriers.Plenty of choice , Canadian telecom style.Now , instead of having to share my cell with a burly psychotic rapist axe murderer , I can choose from four of them .
If I 'm lucky I 'll pick the one who uses the most lube...I 'll just stick with a dumb voice-only phone until someone beats some competition into these assholes.c .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Rogers is no longer the only GSM carrier.
At the end&gt; of '09 Telus and Bell launched their own GSM networks.&gt; So counting Fido (owned by Rogers) there are now four&gt; Canadian GSM based carriers.Plenty of choice, Canadian telecom style.Now, instead of having to share my cell with a burly psychotic rapist axe murderer, I can choose from four of them.
If I'm lucky I'll pick the one who uses the most lube...I'll just stick with a dumb voice-only phone until someone beats some competition into these assholes.c.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30917172</id>
	<title>Android does not require GSM</title>
	<author>mu51c10rd</author>
	<datestamp>1264607220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Rogers is the only GSM carrier in Canada and so the only choice for Android users</i></p><p>Sprint and Verizon in the US sell Android phones. Do no non-GSM carriers in Canada sell Android phones?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Rogers is the only GSM carrier in Canada and so the only choice for Android usersSprint and Verizon in the US sell Android phones .
Do no non-GSM carriers in Canada sell Android phones ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Rogers is the only GSM carrier in Canada and so the only choice for Android usersSprint and Verizon in the US sell Android phones.
Do no non-GSM carriers in Canada sell Android phones?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913598</id>
	<title>Re:GSM Providers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264527120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you're going to count Fido as separate network (really a MVNO), then you might as well count Koodo , Solo and Virgin Canada as well.  And technically Bell and Telus and their MVNO doesn't have a 2G GSM network, just a 3G UMTS/HSPA network.</p><p>You'll also need to include WIND Mobile too if you're counting 3G networks. Although they currently don't carry any Android devices, they are the only ones with T-Mobile US devices and Nexus One users (imported from US).</p><p>Out of all these, only Rogers (Dream/Magic/LG) and Telus (Hero) are carrying Android devices. The other networks are all capable of using imported devices by activating SIM accounts.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're going to count Fido as separate network ( really a MVNO ) , then you might as well count Koodo , Solo and Virgin Canada as well .
And technically Bell and Telus and their MVNO does n't have a 2G GSM network , just a 3G UMTS/HSPA network.You 'll also need to include WIND Mobile too if you 're counting 3G networks .
Although they currently do n't carry any Android devices , they are the only ones with T-Mobile US devices and Nexus One users ( imported from US ) .Out of all these , only Rogers ( Dream/Magic/LG ) and Telus ( Hero ) are carrying Android devices .
The other networks are all capable of using imported devices by activating SIM accounts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're going to count Fido as separate network (really a MVNO), then you might as well count Koodo , Solo and Virgin Canada as well.
And technically Bell and Telus and their MVNO doesn't have a 2G GSM network, just a 3G UMTS/HSPA network.You'll also need to include WIND Mobile too if you're counting 3G networks.
Although they currently don't carry any Android devices, they are the only ones with T-Mobile US devices and Nexus One users (imported from US).Out of all these, only Rogers (Dream/Magic/LG) and Telus (Hero) are carrying Android devices.
The other networks are all capable of using imported devices by activating SIM accounts.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30914296</id>
	<title>Re:On top of all that...</title>
	<author>canajin56</author>
	<datestamp>1264535820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>It's hard to imagine how Rogers could have made this process worse.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
Wait until you get the $10,000 bill for that SD card you ordered from them!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's hard to imagine how Rogers could have made this process worse .
Wait until you get the $ 10,000 bill for that SD card you ordered from them !
; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's hard to imagine how Rogers could have made this process worse.
Wait until you get the $10,000 bill for that SD card you ordered from them!
;)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913734</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30914600</id>
	<title>Re:On top of all that...</title>
	<author>dkf</author>
	<datestamp>1264584300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's hard to imagine how Rogers could have made this process worse.</p></div><p>Maybe the SD card will try to install leaching viruses on your phone, and yet won't actually fix the issue due to having the wrong version. Which would help with the viruses I suppose; you still won't have data service...</p><p>Or perhaps the SD card will be formatted with a filesystem that's only understood by AIX.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's hard to imagine how Rogers could have made this process worse.Maybe the SD card will try to install leaching viruses on your phone , and yet wo n't actually fix the issue due to having the wrong version .
Which would help with the viruses I suppose ; you still wo n't have data service...Or perhaps the SD card will be formatted with a filesystem that 's only understood by AIX .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's hard to imagine how Rogers could have made this process worse.Maybe the SD card will try to install leaching viruses on your phone, and yet won't actually fix the issue due to having the wrong version.
Which would help with the viruses I suppose; you still won't have data service...Or perhaps the SD card will be formatted with a filesystem that's only understood by AIX.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913734</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913550</id>
	<title>Re:GSM Providers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264526760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wrong.</p><p>Bellus deployed their HSPDA network for 3G, which works across all 3G enabled phones. They still each maintain a CDMA network for regular service.</p><p>I couldn't take a Bell or Telus Blackberry and expect to use it on Rogers unless I used their HSPDA network.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wrong.Bellus deployed their HSPDA network for 3G , which works across all 3G enabled phones .
They still each maintain a CDMA network for regular service.I could n't take a Bell or Telus Blackberry and expect to use it on Rogers unless I used their HSPDA network .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wrong.Bellus deployed their HSPDA network for 3G, which works across all 3G enabled phones.
They still each maintain a CDMA network for regular service.I couldn't take a Bell or Telus Blackberry and expect to use it on Rogers unless I used their HSPDA network.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30915026</id>
	<title>Another reason to get an N900</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264591440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unlike the "quasi free" Android, Maemo 5 IS free. No one can cut off your root access.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unlike the " quasi free " Android , Maemo 5 IS free .
No one can cut off your root access .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unlike the "quasi free" Android, Maemo 5 IS free.
No one can cut off your root access.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30916706</id>
	<title>Me and mine</title>
	<author>6-tew</author>
	<datestamp>1264605060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I just updated my HTC Magic yesterday. I guess there was a problem. I never encountered it. The big thing here for me is that they updated the UI to the same one that's used on the HTC Hero (Telus BTW). I didn't buy the phone with this stylish, slick badass interface. I bought it with the clunky, basic spec-Android one. It feels like I got a new phone.

I guess I'm weird, I like Rogers. They're just as crappy as every other carrier I've ever had.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I just updated my HTC Magic yesterday .
I guess there was a problem .
I never encountered it .
The big thing here for me is that they updated the UI to the same one that 's used on the HTC Hero ( Telus BTW ) .
I did n't buy the phone with this stylish , slick badass interface .
I bought it with the clunky , basic spec-Android one .
It feels like I got a new phone .
I guess I 'm weird , I like Rogers .
They 're just as crappy as every other carrier I 've ever had .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just updated my HTC Magic yesterday.
I guess there was a problem.
I never encountered it.
The big thing here for me is that they updated the UI to the same one that's used on the HTC Hero (Telus BTW).
I didn't buy the phone with this stylish, slick badass interface.
I bought it with the clunky, basic spec-Android one.
It feels like I got a new phone.
I guess I'm weird, I like Rogers.
They're just as crappy as every other carrier I've ever had.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30914102</id>
	<title>More discussion on the Android E911 bug</title>
	<author>scdeimos</author>
	<datestamp>1264532820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's more info and discussion over here regarding the Android 1.5 firmware and the E911 bug...</p><p>
<a href="http://www.iwantmyonepointsix.com/?p=155" title="iwantmyonepointsix.com">Rogers HTC E911 GPS Bug Update</a> [iwantmyonepointsix.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's more info and discussion over here regarding the Android 1.5 firmware and the E911 bug.. . Rogers HTC E911 GPS Bug Update [ iwantmyonepointsix.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's more info and discussion over here regarding the Android 1.5 firmware and the E911 bug...
Rogers HTC E911 GPS Bug Update [iwantmyonepointsix.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913828</id>
	<title>Re:Contract breaking?</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1264529580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yea, except you signed a contract that states they are allowed to require certain things like compatible software.   So you are in fact the one refusing to comply with the terms of the contract.</p><p>Do you even read the contract you sign?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yea , except you signed a contract that states they are allowed to require certain things like compatible software .
So you are in fact the one refusing to comply with the terms of the contract.Do you even read the contract you sign ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yea, except you signed a contract that states they are allowed to require certain things like compatible software.
So you are in fact the one refusing to comply with the terms of the contract.Do you even read the contract you sign?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913664</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30914174</id>
	<title>Let's see if we're ready here</title>
	<author>Eightbitgnosis</author>
	<datestamp>1264533780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Gun, check. Gun pointed at foot, check. Gun fired at foot, check.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Gun , check .
Gun pointed at foot , check .
Gun fired at foot , check .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gun, check.
Gun pointed at foot, check.
Gun fired at foot, check.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913668</id>
	<title>What?!?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264527900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wait you want competition ? (capitolism) ?   Who would thought you need that when you a government sponsored program</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wait you want competition ?
( capitolism ) ?
Who would thought you need that when you a government sponsored program</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wait you want competition ?
(capitolism) ?
Who would thought you need that when you a government sponsored program</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913926</id>
	<title>I didn't update and I have internet</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264530840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I received text messages last week warning of the cutoff and forced update.</p><p>I called Saturday afternoon and politely asked the CSR if I'd receive any consideration for running an unaffected 1.6 ROM and have made a few 911 calls. Apparently the guy made a note. I asked for his name and ID number and hung up. Next day neither of the phones had internet, so I called up and sang the same song to the this CSR; he insisted that I had to update, I explained that I'm not affected and being asked to install an earlier revision of the ROM is hardly an update. He said all he could do is "reset the phone" when we hung up. He asked me to restart my phone when we hung up and when I did, my 3G signal was back and has been back since.</p><p>I've been getting texts to update, though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I received text messages last week warning of the cutoff and forced update.I called Saturday afternoon and politely asked the CSR if I 'd receive any consideration for running an unaffected 1.6 ROM and have made a few 911 calls .
Apparently the guy made a note .
I asked for his name and ID number and hung up .
Next day neither of the phones had internet , so I called up and sang the same song to the this CSR ; he insisted that I had to update , I explained that I 'm not affected and being asked to install an earlier revision of the ROM is hardly an update .
He said all he could do is " reset the phone " when we hung up .
He asked me to restart my phone when we hung up and when I did , my 3G signal was back and has been back since.I 've been getting texts to update , though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I received text messages last week warning of the cutoff and forced update.I called Saturday afternoon and politely asked the CSR if I'd receive any consideration for running an unaffected 1.6 ROM and have made a few 911 calls.
Apparently the guy made a note.
I asked for his name and ID number and hung up.
Next day neither of the phones had internet, so I called up and sang the same song to the this CSR; he insisted that I had to update, I explained that I'm not affected and being asked to install an earlier revision of the ROM is hardly an update.
He said all he could do is "reset the phone" when we hung up.
He asked me to restart my phone when we hung up and when I did, my 3G signal was back and has been back since.I've been getting texts to update, though.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30918236</id>
	<title>Re:GSM Providers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264611180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, it's only available in Toronto and Calgary.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , it 's only available in Toronto and Calgary .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, it's only available in Toronto and Calgary.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913798</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30914384</id>
	<title>Bobby Tables Phone</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264623420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So they take the device ID (which you can alter, according to some post...) and process it?</p><p>Mine is "rogers/htc\_magic/sapphire/sapphire:1.5/'); DROP TABLE users;/118917:user/release-keys"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So they take the device ID ( which you can alter , according to some post... ) and process it ? Mine is " rogers/htc \ _magic/sapphire/sapphire : 1.5/ ' ) ; DROP TABLE users ; /118917 : user/release-keys "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So they take the device ID (which you can alter, according to some post...) and process it?Mine is "rogers/htc\_magic/sapphire/sapphire:1.5/'); DROP TABLE users;/118917:user/release-keys"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30915714</id>
	<title>Re:GSM Providers</title>
	<author>LikwidCirkel</author>
	<datestamp>1264599000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>WIND is launching in Ottawa, Edmonton, and I believe Vancouver by the end of this March.  I just got a cheap used HTC Dream, and I can't wait for WIND.</htmltext>
<tokenext>WIND is launching in Ottawa , Edmonton , and I believe Vancouver by the end of this March .
I just got a cheap used HTC Dream , and I ca n't wait for WIND .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>WIND is launching in Ottawa, Edmonton, and I believe Vancouver by the end of this March.
I just got a cheap used HTC Dream, and I can't wait for WIND.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913564</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913652</id>
	<title>Re:Uhm, I thought it was open?</title>
	<author>CNeb96</author>
	<datestamp>1264527840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I thought the one of the battle cries that Android fanboys wave at the iPhone fanboys was that it was open and you weren't locked into running what the provider wanted, you had root on your own device and they can't take it away<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...  Turns out they can force remote updates and lockout root?</p><p>Gonna be lots of pissed off fanboys, this should be a nice calm discussion<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></div><p>No the battle cry was that you could install any userland app you wanted without asking anyone's permission like Apple's app store but that app would still need to conform to the android API for apps, which AFAIK is java like and doesn't give the app any low level access.  The fact that it runs on Linux is near irrelevant to users (since they don't give you or apps native access) but I suppose it would make it easier to port the whole OS to new hardware platforms.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I thought the one of the battle cries that Android fanboys wave at the iPhone fanboys was that it was open and you were n't locked into running what the provider wanted , you had root on your own device and they ca n't take it away ... Turns out they can force remote updates and lockout root ? Gon na be lots of pissed off fanboys , this should be a nice calm discussion ...No the battle cry was that you could install any userland app you wanted without asking anyone 's permission like Apple 's app store but that app would still need to conform to the android API for apps , which AFAIK is java like and does n't give the app any low level access .
The fact that it runs on Linux is near irrelevant to users ( since they do n't give you or apps native access ) but I suppose it would make it easier to port the whole OS to new hardware platforms .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I thought the one of the battle cries that Android fanboys wave at the iPhone fanboys was that it was open and you weren't locked into running what the provider wanted, you had root on your own device and they can't take it away ...  Turns out they can force remote updates and lockout root?Gonna be lots of pissed off fanboys, this should be a nice calm discussion ...No the battle cry was that you could install any userland app you wanted without asking anyone's permission like Apple's app store but that app would still need to conform to the android API for apps, which AFAIK is java like and doesn't give the app any low level access.
The fact that it runs on Linux is near irrelevant to users (since they don't give you or apps native access) but I suppose it would make it easier to port the whole OS to new hardware platforms.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913536</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913706</id>
	<title>Word #5</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264528260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>It wasn't until the fifth word that I realized the U.S. wasn't under attack.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It was n't until the fifth word that I realized the U.S. was n't under attack .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It wasn't until the fifth word that I realized the U.S. wasn't under attack.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30914952</id>
	<title>Re:On top of all that...</title>
	<author>haruchai</author>
	<datestamp>1264590300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"It's hard to imagine how Rogers could have made this process worse."</p><p>
&nbsp; Don't go throwing down the gauntlet in front of Rogers like that - they'll surpass your worst expectations.<br>
&nbsp; I was a customer 12 years ago and swore I'd never spend another dime on Rogers services again.<br>
&nbsp; My former roommate wouldn't listen and signed up - a year later, he too quit in disgust.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" It 's hard to imagine how Rogers could have made this process worse .
"   Do n't go throwing down the gauntlet in front of Rogers like that - they 'll surpass your worst expectations .
  I was a customer 12 years ago and swore I 'd never spend another dime on Rogers services again .
  My former roommate would n't listen and signed up - a year later , he too quit in disgust .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>"It's hard to imagine how Rogers could have made this process worse.
"
  Don't go throwing down the gauntlet in front of Rogers like that - they'll surpass your worst expectations.
  I was a customer 12 years ago and swore I'd never spend another dime on Rogers services again.
  My former roommate wouldn't listen and signed up - a year later, he too quit in disgust.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913734</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913536</id>
	<title>Uhm, I thought it was open?</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1264526700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I thought the one of the battle cries that Android fanboys wave at the iPhone fanboys was that it was open and you weren't locked into running what the provider wanted, you had root on your own device and they can't take it away<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...  Turns out they can force remote updates and lockout root?</p><p>Gonna be lots of pissed off fanboys, this should be a nice calm discussion<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I thought the one of the battle cries that Android fanboys wave at the iPhone fanboys was that it was open and you were n't locked into running what the provider wanted , you had root on your own device and they ca n't take it away ... Turns out they can force remote updates and lockout root ? Gon na be lots of pissed off fanboys , this should be a nice calm discussion .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I thought the one of the battle cries that Android fanboys wave at the iPhone fanboys was that it was open and you weren't locked into running what the provider wanted, you had root on your own device and they can't take it away ...  Turns out they can force remote updates and lockout root?Gonna be lots of pissed off fanboys, this should be a nice calm discussion ...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913730</id>
	<title>Re:Uhm, I thought it was open?</title>
	<author>Thinboy00</author>
	<datestamp>1264528560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Android doesn't come with root.  It comes with the ability to install your own apps without having to jump through some lame "app store" or other technical/political hoops.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Android does n't come with root .
It comes with the ability to install your own apps without having to jump through some lame " app store " or other technical/political hoops .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Android doesn't come with root.
It comes with the ability to install your own apps without having to jump through some lame "app store" or other technical/political hoops.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913536</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30915100</id>
	<title>Re:Some phones are more open than Android</title>
	<author>Xyde</author>
	<datestamp>1264592340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;you have essentially a little Linux computer with all that implies</p><p>Haha, be careful with that one<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; you have essentially a little Linux computer with all that impliesHaha , be careful with that one ; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;you have essentially a little Linux computer with all that impliesHaha, be careful with that one ;)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913846</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30915646</id>
	<title>112</title>
	<author>kingturkey</author>
	<datestamp>1264598580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Does 112 work? I guess that's only a solution if you know about the problem/figure out why the problem is happening, but it's probably a good idea to be in the habit of using 112 instead of local emergency numbers anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does 112 work ?
I guess that 's only a solution if you know about the problem/figure out why the problem is happening , but it 's probably a good idea to be in the habit of using 112 instead of local emergency numbers anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does 112 work?
I guess that's only a solution if you know about the problem/figure out why the problem is happening, but it's probably a good idea to be in the habit of using 112 instead of local emergency numbers anyway.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30916444</id>
	<title>Re:GSM Providers</title>
	<author>da\_guy2</author>
	<datestamp>1264603800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually if you include the new WIND mobile that's 5.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually if you include the new WIND mobile that 's 5 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually if you include the new WIND mobile that's 5.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30917076</id>
	<title>Re:On top of all that...</title>
	<author>GooberToo</author>
	<datestamp>1264606740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I stopped in the Rogers store to get the fix. I waited for about 20 minutes while the customer support people (calling them "techs" wouldn't be accurate) installed the fix software on their in-store computers. Then I was told that the fix would wipe my phone. Did I have a backup? I said no; I haven't been able to find any evidence of Rogers-capable phone-sync software that works on my Mac (it's all Windows only).</p></div><p>That's one of the features of most Android phones. Your data has long been backed up unless you specifically disabled it. Your contacts, calendars, and gmails are all ready and waiting. After the update, your phone will automatically sync and your contacts, calendars, and gmails will be readily available.</p><p>You will have lost the following: SMS/MMS, ringtone preferences, non-core, per application preferences, all third party data not stored on your SD. Overall, not a big loss as the truly important stuff will immediately be available after the upgrade.</p><p>Future versions of Android (2.1 and later, IIRC) will allow for all application settings to be automatically backed up and restored.</p><p>In the mean time, checkout MyBackup and MyBackupPro if you want an additional backup solution.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I stopped in the Rogers store to get the fix .
I waited for about 20 minutes while the customer support people ( calling them " techs " would n't be accurate ) installed the fix software on their in-store computers .
Then I was told that the fix would wipe my phone .
Did I have a backup ?
I said no ; I have n't been able to find any evidence of Rogers-capable phone-sync software that works on my Mac ( it 's all Windows only ) .That 's one of the features of most Android phones .
Your data has long been backed up unless you specifically disabled it .
Your contacts , calendars , and gmails are all ready and waiting .
After the update , your phone will automatically sync and your contacts , calendars , and gmails will be readily available.You will have lost the following : SMS/MMS , ringtone preferences , non-core , per application preferences , all third party data not stored on your SD .
Overall , not a big loss as the truly important stuff will immediately be available after the upgrade.Future versions of Android ( 2.1 and later , IIRC ) will allow for all application settings to be automatically backed up and restored.In the mean time , checkout MyBackup and MyBackupPro if you want an additional backup solution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I stopped in the Rogers store to get the fix.
I waited for about 20 minutes while the customer support people (calling them "techs" wouldn't be accurate) installed the fix software on their in-store computers.
Then I was told that the fix would wipe my phone.
Did I have a backup?
I said no; I haven't been able to find any evidence of Rogers-capable phone-sync software that works on my Mac (it's all Windows only).That's one of the features of most Android phones.
Your data has long been backed up unless you specifically disabled it.
Your contacts, calendars, and gmails are all ready and waiting.
After the update, your phone will automatically sync and your contacts, calendars, and gmails will be readily available.You will have lost the following: SMS/MMS, ringtone preferences, non-core, per application preferences, all third party data not stored on your SD.
Overall, not a big loss as the truly important stuff will immediately be available after the upgrade.Future versions of Android (2.1 and later, IIRC) will allow for all application settings to be automatically backed up and restored.In the mean time, checkout MyBackup and MyBackupPro if you want an additional backup solution.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913734</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30917300</id>
	<title>Re:GSM Providers</title>
	<author>axis\_omega</author>
	<datestamp>1264607760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow this is great news ! Oh but wait, the fees will probably go down now. Yeah now that Bell has entered the market, I will see a tremendous price drop.<br>Bell has been there with Fido for a long time now. They have similar price plan. They have no incentive to lower any price. Competition is non existent<br>when companies agree to keep fees high.</p><p>"The Organization for Economic Co-Operation and Development says Canadian cellphone rates are the third-highest amongst surveyed countries, behind the United States and Spain."<br>from here <a href="http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090811/090811\_cell\_fees/20090811/?hub=CP24Morning" title="cp24.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090811/090811\_cell\_fees/20090811/?hub=CP24Morning</a> [cp24.com]</p><p>And there is competition coming here but if you look at what the CEO says : "Price is not the way to differentiate yourself in the marketplace," said president Dave Dobbin. "It's about value. It's about being simple."<br>from here <a href="http://ca.news.finance.yahoo.com/s/28122009/2/biz-finance-consumers-rogers-bell-telus-new-wireless-companies.html" title="yahoo.com" rel="nofollow">http://ca.news.finance.yahoo.com/s/28122009/2/biz-finance-consumers-rogers-bell-telus-new-wireless-companies.html</a> [yahoo.com]</p><p>As long as consumers are willing to giveaway 55 dollar a month for a phone they will have a price gadget that matches the market.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow this is great news !
Oh but wait , the fees will probably go down now .
Yeah now that Bell has entered the market , I will see a tremendous price drop.Bell has been there with Fido for a long time now .
They have similar price plan .
They have no incentive to lower any price .
Competition is non existentwhen companies agree to keep fees high .
" The Organization for Economic Co-Operation and Development says Canadian cellphone rates are the third-highest amongst surveyed countries , behind the United States and Spain .
" from here http : //www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090811/090811 \ _cell \ _fees/20090811/ ? hub = CP24Morning [ cp24.com ] And there is competition coming here but if you look at what the CEO says : " Price is not the way to differentiate yourself in the marketplace , " said president Dave Dobbin .
" It 's about value .
It 's about being simple .
" from here http : //ca.news.finance.yahoo.com/s/28122009/2/biz-finance-consumers-rogers-bell-telus-new-wireless-companies.html [ yahoo.com ] As long as consumers are willing to giveaway 55 dollar a month for a phone they will have a price gadget that matches the market .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow this is great news !
Oh but wait, the fees will probably go down now.
Yeah now that Bell has entered the market, I will see a tremendous price drop.Bell has been there with Fido for a long time now.
They have similar price plan.
They have no incentive to lower any price.
Competition is non existentwhen companies agree to keep fees high.
"The Organization for Economic Co-Operation and Development says Canadian cellphone rates are the third-highest amongst surveyed countries, behind the United States and Spain.
"from here http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090811/090811\_cell\_fees/20090811/?hub=CP24Morning [cp24.com]And there is competition coming here but if you look at what the CEO says : "Price is not the way to differentiate yourself in the marketplace," said president Dave Dobbin.
"It's about value.
It's about being simple.
"from here http://ca.news.finance.yahoo.com/s/28122009/2/biz-finance-consumers-rogers-bell-telus-new-wireless-companies.html [yahoo.com]As long as consumers are willing to giveaway 55 dollar a month for a phone they will have a price gadget that matches the market.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30914204</id>
	<title>Re:Rogers is terrible</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264534380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I callled them, said I had installed the update.  They asked me to verify the build number, which I read back to the guy from the screenshot in the update documentation, and they turned my data back on.  The hardest part was the time spent on hold.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I callled them , said I had installed the update .
They asked me to verify the build number , which I read back to the guy from the screenshot in the update documentation , and they turned my data back on .
The hardest part was the time spent on hold .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I callled them, said I had installed the update.
They asked me to verify the build number, which I read back to the guy from the screenshot in the update documentation, and they turned my data back on.
The hardest part was the time spent on hold.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913524</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913938</id>
	<title>Re:GSM Providers</title>
	<author>samurphy21</author>
	<datestamp>1264530960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Agreed.  If the issue was that you can only get an Android phone via Rogers, then</p><p>http://www.telusmobility.com/en/NS/htc\_hero/index.shtml</p><p>http://www.bell.ca/shopping/en\_CA\_ON.Samsung-Galaxywith-Google/69236.details</p><p>There's at least two other nation wide carriers looking to do business with you, right now.  Ones who have proper coverage in Eastern Canada, unlike Rogers, in many non-metro areas.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed .
If the issue was that you can only get an Android phone via Rogers , thenhttp : //www.telusmobility.com/en/NS/htc \ _hero/index.shtmlhttp : //www.bell.ca/shopping/en \ _CA \ _ON.Samsung-Galaxywith-Google/69236.detailsThere 's at least two other nation wide carriers looking to do business with you , right now .
Ones who have proper coverage in Eastern Canada , unlike Rogers , in many non-metro areas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed.
If the issue was that you can only get an Android phone via Rogers, thenhttp://www.telusmobility.com/en/NS/htc\_hero/index.shtmlhttp://www.bell.ca/shopping/en\_CA\_ON.Samsung-Galaxywith-Google/69236.detailsThere's at least two other nation wide carriers looking to do business with you, right now.
Ones who have proper coverage in Eastern Canada, unlike Rogers, in many non-metro areas.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30914218</id>
	<title>Re:Concealing device id/type/abilities?</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1264534620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You can do whatever you want with the hardware, you own it.</p><p>Likewise, the carrier can do whatever it wants with ITS hardware, including not letting you access their network without following their rules, regardless of how arbitrary or ridiculous those rules are.</p><p>It goes both ways.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You can do whatever you want with the hardware , you own it.Likewise , the carrier can do whatever it wants with ITS hardware , including not letting you access their network without following their rules , regardless of how arbitrary or ridiculous those rules are.It goes both ways .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can do whatever you want with the hardware, you own it.Likewise, the carrier can do whatever it wants with ITS hardware, including not letting you access their network without following their rules, regardless of how arbitrary or ridiculous those rules are.It goes both ways.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913716</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913786</id>
	<title>Re:Rogers is terrible</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264529220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Call Technical Support (not the regular csr's) and ask for a Network Refresh. Turn your phone off and on, and you're good to go.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Call Technical Support ( not the regular csr 's ) and ask for a Network Refresh .
Turn your phone off and on , and you 're good to go .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Call Technical Support (not the regular csr's) and ask for a Network Refresh.
Turn your phone off and on, and you're good to go.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913524</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913604</id>
	<title>open means closed for cellphones</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264527180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I guess the only truly open phone is the Openmoko Freerunner. There are so many "open-source based OS" out there but the whole point is lost because you can't install your own version - there are lots of restrictions and locks to prevent you from doing that too. You are forced to accept the cellphone manufacturers' and operators' crap.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I guess the only truly open phone is the Openmoko Freerunner .
There are so many " open-source based OS " out there but the whole point is lost because you ca n't install your own version - there are lots of restrictions and locks to prevent you from doing that too .
You are forced to accept the cellphone manufacturers ' and operators ' crap .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I guess the only truly open phone is the Openmoko Freerunner.
There are so many "open-source based OS" out there but the whole point is lost because you can't install your own version - there are lots of restrictions and locks to prevent you from doing that too.
You are forced to accept the cellphone manufacturers' and operators' crap.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30914658</id>
	<title>Re:but...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264585500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I dunno, you should lay off the stuff.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I dunno , you should lay off the stuff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I dunno, you should lay off the stuff.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913864</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913716</id>
	<title>Concealing device id/type/abilities?</title>
	<author>gehrehmee</author>
	<datestamp>1264528500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is there any practical way to conceal the details of the device from the carrier? To prevent the carrier from knowing the ID#, model #, or software details of the phone, beyond the identifying numbers on the SIM card?</p><p>As far as I'm concerned, if I own the hardware, I should be able to do what I want with it. All the service provider should care about is the SIM card to which they provide service.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is there any practical way to conceal the details of the device from the carrier ?
To prevent the carrier from knowing the ID # , model # , or software details of the phone , beyond the identifying numbers on the SIM card ? As far as I 'm concerned , if I own the hardware , I should be able to do what I want with it .
All the service provider should care about is the SIM card to which they provide service .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is there any practical way to conceal the details of the device from the carrier?
To prevent the carrier from knowing the ID#, model #, or software details of the phone, beyond the identifying numbers on the SIM card?As far as I'm concerned, if I own the hardware, I should be able to do what I want with it.
All the service provider should care about is the SIM card to which they provide service.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30914246</id>
	<title>Re:Some phones are more open than Android</title>
	<author>mjwx</author>
	<datestamp>1264534980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Palm not only has root available on all their WebOS phones,</p></div></blockquote><p>

All 300 people who bought the Palm Pre in the UK will not attest to your assertion.<br> <br>

Android is Open Source, part GPL and part Apache. WebOS is closed source, it uses the Linux Kernel but most of the OS is proprietary.<br> <br>

I can install a pre-rooted mod on my HTC Dream, easily enough mod already exist for the HTC Magic, Hero, Nexus One, Samsung Galaxy and Motorola Droid/Milestone. I cannot customise nor install a custom version of WebOS on a Palm device.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Palm not only has root available on all their WebOS phones , All 300 people who bought the Palm Pre in the UK will not attest to your assertion .
Android is Open Source , part GPL and part Apache .
WebOS is closed source , it uses the Linux Kernel but most of the OS is proprietary .
I can install a pre-rooted mod on my HTC Dream , easily enough mod already exist for the HTC Magic , Hero , Nexus One , Samsung Galaxy and Motorola Droid/Milestone .
I can not customise nor install a custom version of WebOS on a Palm device .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Palm not only has root available on all their WebOS phones,

All 300 people who bought the Palm Pre in the UK will not attest to your assertion.
Android is Open Source, part GPL and part Apache.
WebOS is closed source, it uses the Linux Kernel but most of the OS is proprietary.
I can install a pre-rooted mod on my HTC Dream, easily enough mod already exist for the HTC Magic, Hero, Nexus One, Samsung Galaxy and Motorola Droid/Milestone.
I cannot customise nor install a custom version of WebOS on a Palm device.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913846</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30914292</id>
	<title>Re:Concealing device id/type/abilities?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264535760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>prepaid plan. they dont give you a $5 discount if its not a rogers phone. but then they dont have this firmware bullshit either.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>prepaid plan .
they dont give you a $ 5 discount if its not a rogers phone .
but then they dont have this firmware bullshit either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>prepaid plan.
they dont give you a $5 discount if its not a rogers phone.
but then they dont have this firmware bullshit either.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913716</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913570</id>
	<title>How ironic</title>
	<author>ChipMonk</author>
	<datestamp>1264526880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Rogers finally gets off their collective duff, and fixes a potentially life-threatening bug.<br> <br>

Within weeks of the GSM hack being published.<br> <br>

Is there anything Rogers gets right? Or are they currently the most abusive monopoly Canucks have to live with?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Rogers finally gets off their collective duff , and fixes a potentially life-threatening bug .
Within weeks of the GSM hack being published .
Is there anything Rogers gets right ?
Or are they currently the most abusive monopoly Canucks have to live with ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Rogers finally gets off their collective duff, and fixes a potentially life-threatening bug.
Within weeks of the GSM hack being published.
Is there anything Rogers gets right?
Or are they currently the most abusive monopoly Canucks have to live with?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30914222</id>
	<title>Sometimes trolls have salient points</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264534620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>WTF seriously... This really shows google is a marketing company and not a real software/product outfit.  What kind of idiot releases a cell phone with problems dialing 911??  There is no excuse or defense of any kind possible.</p><p>Its  amusing people got gphones thinking they would be able to hack the crap out of them only to be locked into a marginal java implementation with a known piss poor GC on an implementation that can't even execute valid java bytecode.</p><p>When I do simple searches on google most of what comes back is nonsensical crap which exists only to make money on google adwords.  Not only is google turning a blind eye to improving basic search (The situation continues to get worse year after year) they are effectivly promoting all kinds of seedy activity that ruins the network for everyone by letting people make money off of wasting other peoples time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>WTF seriously... This really shows google is a marketing company and not a real software/product outfit .
What kind of idiot releases a cell phone with problems dialing 911 ? ?
There is no excuse or defense of any kind possible.Its amusing people got gphones thinking they would be able to hack the crap out of them only to be locked into a marginal java implementation with a known piss poor GC on an implementation that ca n't even execute valid java bytecode.When I do simple searches on google most of what comes back is nonsensical crap which exists only to make money on google adwords .
Not only is google turning a blind eye to improving basic search ( The situation continues to get worse year after year ) they are effectivly promoting all kinds of seedy activity that ruins the network for everyone by letting people make money off of wasting other peoples time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>WTF seriously... This really shows google is a marketing company and not a real software/product outfit.
What kind of idiot releases a cell phone with problems dialing 911??
There is no excuse or defense of any kind possible.Its  amusing people got gphones thinking they would be able to hack the crap out of them only to be locked into a marginal java implementation with a known piss poor GC on an implementation that can't even execute valid java bytecode.When I do simple searches on google most of what comes back is nonsensical crap which exists only to make money on google adwords.
Not only is google turning a blind eye to improving basic search (The situation continues to get worse year after year) they are effectivly promoting all kinds of seedy activity that ruins the network for everyone by letting people make money off of wasting other peoples time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30918088</id>
	<title>Re:Contract breaking?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264610700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They are actually giving out a one-month credit on data fees as compensation for locking you out. IANAL either, but this probably is enough to absolve them from a breach of contract on their end-- they'll apply this to your account automatically, forcing you to accept it as settlement.</p><p>So far the simplest option I've seen is the one where you call in, complain you updated your Android phone but your data hasn't been restored, read off the updated build number from the screenshot in their how-to update walkthrough.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They are actually giving out a one-month credit on data fees as compensation for locking you out .
IANAL either , but this probably is enough to absolve them from a breach of contract on their end-- they 'll apply this to your account automatically , forcing you to accept it as settlement.So far the simplest option I 've seen is the one where you call in , complain you updated your Android phone but your data has n't been restored , read off the updated build number from the screenshot in their how-to update walkthrough .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They are actually giving out a one-month credit on data fees as compensation for locking you out.
IANAL either, but this probably is enough to absolve them from a breach of contract on their end-- they'll apply this to your account automatically, forcing you to accept it as settlement.So far the simplest option I've seen is the one where you call in, complain you updated your Android phone but your data hasn't been restored, read off the updated build number from the screenshot in their how-to update walkthrough.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913664</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913856</id>
	<title>Re:open means closed for cellphones</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264529940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I guess the only truly open phone is the Openmoko Freerunner. There are so many "open-source based OS" out there but the whole point is lost because you can't install your own version - there are lots of restrictions and locks to prevent you from doing that too. You are forced to accept the cellphone manufacturers' and operators' crap.</p></div><p>Maemo and WebOS are more open than Android, but they also have non-open-source components. OpenMoko is very open, but it's also very primative, it's essentially a feature-phone OS at best, not a smartphone OS; which is a pity. So it's really not much of an option.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I guess the only truly open phone is the Openmoko Freerunner .
There are so many " open-source based OS " out there but the whole point is lost because you ca n't install your own version - there are lots of restrictions and locks to prevent you from doing that too .
You are forced to accept the cellphone manufacturers ' and operators ' crap.Maemo and WebOS are more open than Android , but they also have non-open-source components .
OpenMoko is very open , but it 's also very primative , it 's essentially a feature-phone OS at best , not a smartphone OS ; which is a pity .
So it 's really not much of an option .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I guess the only truly open phone is the Openmoko Freerunner.
There are so many "open-source based OS" out there but the whole point is lost because you can't install your own version - there are lots of restrictions and locks to prevent you from doing that too.
You are forced to accept the cellphone manufacturers' and operators' crap.Maemo and WebOS are more open than Android, but they also have non-open-source components.
OpenMoko is very open, but it's also very primative, it's essentially a feature-phone OS at best, not a smartphone OS; which is a pity.
So it's really not much of an option.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913604</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913688</id>
	<title>Guess it's the iPhone for me ...</title>
	<author>tomhudson</author>
	<datestamp>1264528200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
If I'm going to be locked in anyway, at least I might as well get the free black turtleneck.
</p><p>
Question is, what gives Rogers the right to force people who are PAYING for their phones to require them to update.  You don't get the phone for free - a portion of your monthly cost goes towards paying the phone. The phone is YOUR property, not theirs.  Try canceling before your term is over, they'll hit you with $20 for each unused month to pay for that phone.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If I 'm going to be locked in anyway , at least I might as well get the free black turtleneck .
Question is , what gives Rogers the right to force people who are PAYING for their phones to require them to update .
You do n't get the phone for free - a portion of your monthly cost goes towards paying the phone .
The phone is YOUR property , not theirs .
Try canceling before your term is over , they 'll hit you with $ 20 for each unused month to pay for that phone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
If I'm going to be locked in anyway, at least I might as well get the free black turtleneck.
Question is, what gives Rogers the right to force people who are PAYING for their phones to require them to update.
You don't get the phone for free - a portion of your monthly cost goes towards paying the phone.
The phone is YOUR property, not theirs.
Try canceling before your term is over, they'll hit you with $20 for each unused month to pay for that phone.
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30915434</id>
	<title>Re:GSM is not HSPDA, Telus does not have GSM.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264596900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And you've still got this wrong,  deleted comments or not.</p><p>It's not called HSPDA,  it's HS DPA (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Speed\_Downlink\_Packet\_Access), closely matched with HS UPA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSUPA),  with the combination being called HSPA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High\_Speed\_Packet\_Access)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And you 've still got this wrong , deleted comments or not.It 's not called HSPDA , it 's HS DPA ( see http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Speed \ _Downlink \ _Packet \ _Access ) , closely matched with HS UPA ( http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSUPA ) , with the combination being called HSPA ( http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High \ _Speed \ _Packet \ _Access )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And you've still got this wrong,  deleted comments or not.It's not called HSPDA,  it's HS DPA (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Speed\_Downlink\_Packet\_Access), closely matched with HS UPA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSUPA),  with the combination being called HSPA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High\_Speed\_Packet\_Access)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913714</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30915342</id>
	<title>Re:GSM Providers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264595580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In the West? You mean like Hamilton?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In the West ?
You mean like Hamilton ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the West?
You mean like Hamilton?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913798</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30914170</id>
	<title>Re:Rogers is terrible</title>
	<author>Jester998</author>
	<datestamp>1264533720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I run Cyanogen on my Dream as well, but I got around the data blockage like so:</p><p>If you were quick enough to take advantage of the free HTC Magic upgrade they offered, you can just root the Magic and install CursorSense (at least 1.2.1).  CursorSense is a mod of the official Rogers firmware, so as far as Rogers is concerned, you have a 'patched' phone, so they re-enable data access on your account.  At that point you can switch back to your Dream with full 3G access.</p><p>I was without data for about a day (my Magic only arrived Monday, a day after they started blocking data), but since then I've been fine.</p><p>Rogers can take their mandatory upgrade and shove it.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:p</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I run Cyanogen on my Dream as well , but I got around the data blockage like so : If you were quick enough to take advantage of the free HTC Magic upgrade they offered , you can just root the Magic and install CursorSense ( at least 1.2.1 ) .
CursorSense is a mod of the official Rogers firmware , so as far as Rogers is concerned , you have a 'patched ' phone , so they re-enable data access on your account .
At that point you can switch back to your Dream with full 3G access.I was without data for about a day ( my Magic only arrived Monday , a day after they started blocking data ) , but since then I 've been fine.Rogers can take their mandatory upgrade and shove it .
: p</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I run Cyanogen on my Dream as well, but I got around the data blockage like so:If you were quick enough to take advantage of the free HTC Magic upgrade they offered, you can just root the Magic and install CursorSense (at least 1.2.1).
CursorSense is a mod of the official Rogers firmware, so as far as Rogers is concerned, you have a 'patched' phone, so they re-enable data access on your account.
At that point you can switch back to your Dream with full 3G access.I was without data for about a day (my Magic only arrived Monday, a day after they started blocking data), but since then I've been fine.Rogers can take their mandatory upgrade and shove it.
:p</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913524</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913664</id>
	<title>Contract breaking?</title>
	<author>tlhIngan</author>
	<datestamp>1264527900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Considering that Rogers isn't giving you data service anymore, a service that <strong>you pay for</strong>, could this be used as a way to break out of the contract?</p><p>After all, they refuse to provide the data service, they're not holding up their end of the deal, and you're paying for a service you cannot use.</p><p>Hell, at least call them and demand a credit for service not provided. Or move the SIM card to an iPhone and demand they activate the data service.</p><p>It's not like the data comes with the plan - you're free to buy any voice plan with a data plan.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Considering that Rogers is n't giving you data service anymore , a service that you pay for , could this be used as a way to break out of the contract ? After all , they refuse to provide the data service , they 're not holding up their end of the deal , and you 're paying for a service you can not use.Hell , at least call them and demand a credit for service not provided .
Or move the SIM card to an iPhone and demand they activate the data service.It 's not like the data comes with the plan - you 're free to buy any voice plan with a data plan .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Considering that Rogers isn't giving you data service anymore, a service that you pay for, could this be used as a way to break out of the contract?After all, they refuse to provide the data service, they're not holding up their end of the deal, and you're paying for a service you cannot use.Hell, at least call them and demand a credit for service not provided.
Or move the SIM card to an iPhone and demand they activate the data service.It's not like the data comes with the plan - you're free to buy any voice plan with a data plan.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913846</id>
	<title>Some phones are more open than Android</title>
	<author>MobyTurbo</author>
	<datestamp>1264529760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I thought the one of the battle cries that Android fanboys wave at the iPhone fanboys was that it was open and you weren't locked into running what the provider wanted, you had root on your own device and they can't take it away<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...  Turns out they can force remote updates and lockout root?</p></div><p>By comparison, Palm not only has root available on all their WebOS phones, it is provided by Palm's SDK itself and not by an unsupported hack that can be closed later at the carrier's or device maker's discretion. CEO Jon Rubenstein has even publicly praised the Homebrew community, who's efforts are encouraged, and they've promised not to close developer mode.</p><p>

Maemo, from Nokia (N900, Nokia Internet Tablets) is even more open in a way; not only you have root, you have essentially a little Linux computer with all that implies; this is due to it's UMPC heritage, it originally wasn't really a smartphone OS. (Though it's a little easier to hack the apps for WebOS with "patches" because they're just JS/HTML5 text files, except the new native apps.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) )</p><p>Really, although Android has Linux, among the Linux-based phone OSs, it is probably the most closed.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I thought the one of the battle cries that Android fanboys wave at the iPhone fanboys was that it was open and you were n't locked into running what the provider wanted , you had root on your own device and they ca n't take it away ... Turns out they can force remote updates and lockout root ? By comparison , Palm not only has root available on all their WebOS phones , it is provided by Palm 's SDK itself and not by an unsupported hack that can be closed later at the carrier 's or device maker 's discretion .
CEO Jon Rubenstein has even publicly praised the Homebrew community , who 's efforts are encouraged , and they 've promised not to close developer mode .
Maemo , from Nokia ( N900 , Nokia Internet Tablets ) is even more open in a way ; not only you have root , you have essentially a little Linux computer with all that implies ; this is due to it 's UMPC heritage , it originally was n't really a smartphone OS .
( Though it 's a little easier to hack the apps for WebOS with " patches " because they 're just JS/HTML5 text files , except the new native apps .
: ) ) Really , although Android has Linux , among the Linux-based phone OSs , it is probably the most closed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I thought the one of the battle cries that Android fanboys wave at the iPhone fanboys was that it was open and you weren't locked into running what the provider wanted, you had root on your own device and they can't take it away ...  Turns out they can force remote updates and lockout root?By comparison, Palm not only has root available on all their WebOS phones, it is provided by Palm's SDK itself and not by an unsupported hack that can be closed later at the carrier's or device maker's discretion.
CEO Jon Rubenstein has even publicly praised the Homebrew community, who's efforts are encouraged, and they've promised not to close developer mode.
Maemo, from Nokia (N900, Nokia Internet Tablets) is even more open in a way; not only you have root, you have essentially a little Linux computer with all that implies; this is due to it's UMPC heritage, it originally wasn't really a smartphone OS.
(Though it's a little easier to hack the apps for WebOS with "patches" because they're just JS/HTML5 text files, except the new native apps.
:) )Really, although Android has Linux, among the Linux-based phone OSs, it is probably the most closed.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913536</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30914824</id>
	<title>Re:GSM Providers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264588020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There should be only 1 service available and that should be run by the Canadian government just like our healthcare is.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There should be only 1 service available and that should be run by the Canadian government just like our healthcare is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There should be only 1 service available and that should be run by the Canadian government just like our healthcare is.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913882</id>
	<title>Ahh Rogers..</title>
	<author>loconet</author>
	<datestamp>1264530240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For those interested, there are further discussions <a href="http://androidforums.com/rogers/38624-rogers-update-911-fix-rogers-htc-dream-magic-ready.html" title="androidforums.com">here</a> [androidforums.com] and <a href="http://androidforums.com/rogers/38974-rogers-911-sense-ui-update-post-your-problems-here.html" title="androidforums.com">here</a> [androidforums.com].</p><p>In my case, I use Linux exclusively so this weekend I had to hunt down a Windows XP box (since it doesn't work on 7) that I could use. There was no way I was going to trust<br>the clowns at a Rogers store nor wait for the SD card to get shipped.</p><p>As much as I like Android and the whole concept of an open mobile platform, there <a href="http://www.loconet.ca/2009/12/22/is-android-too-open-or-not-open-enough/" title="loconet.ca">is still a lot of work</a> [loconet.ca] to do in terms of letting all members of that mobile ecosystem know who is resposnible for what. The entangled mess that is the mobile industry in Canada will be a challenge.</p><p>Thanks to Rogers' constant <a href="http://androidforums.com/rogers/10647-rogers-dream-1-6-update.html" title="androidforums.com">habit of sticking their stinky paws</a> [androidforums.com] in the ROM to customize it with their useless icons (amongst other things), "supported" upgrades to Android devices such as the HTC Magic and HTC Dream are VERY difficult. Part of the reason Rogers was even able to release the fix so quickly was because a vocal group of us has been pushing Rogers and HTC to stop this nonsense and letting us upgrade - I'm sure work had already gotten started. I am curious about what would have happened if Rogers and HTC had continued with <a href="http://www.androidforums.com/rogers/10647-rogers-dream-1-6-update-11.html#post197520" title="androidforums.com">their no upgrades plans</a> [androidforums.com].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For those interested , there are further discussions here [ androidforums.com ] and here [ androidforums.com ] .In my case , I use Linux exclusively so this weekend I had to hunt down a Windows XP box ( since it does n't work on 7 ) that I could use .
There was no way I was going to trustthe clowns at a Rogers store nor wait for the SD card to get shipped.As much as I like Android and the whole concept of an open mobile platform , there is still a lot of work [ loconet.ca ] to do in terms of letting all members of that mobile ecosystem know who is resposnible for what .
The entangled mess that is the mobile industry in Canada will be a challenge.Thanks to Rogers ' constant habit of sticking their stinky paws [ androidforums.com ] in the ROM to customize it with their useless icons ( amongst other things ) , " supported " upgrades to Android devices such as the HTC Magic and HTC Dream are VERY difficult .
Part of the reason Rogers was even able to release the fix so quickly was because a vocal group of us has been pushing Rogers and HTC to stop this nonsense and letting us upgrade - I 'm sure work had already gotten started .
I am curious about what would have happened if Rogers and HTC had continued with their no upgrades plans [ androidforums.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For those interested, there are further discussions here [androidforums.com] and here [androidforums.com].In my case, I use Linux exclusively so this weekend I had to hunt down a Windows XP box (since it doesn't work on 7) that I could use.
There was no way I was going to trustthe clowns at a Rogers store nor wait for the SD card to get shipped.As much as I like Android and the whole concept of an open mobile platform, there is still a lot of work [loconet.ca] to do in terms of letting all members of that mobile ecosystem know who is resposnible for what.
The entangled mess that is the mobile industry in Canada will be a challenge.Thanks to Rogers' constant habit of sticking their stinky paws [androidforums.com] in the ROM to customize it with their useless icons (amongst other things), "supported" upgrades to Android devices such as the HTC Magic and HTC Dream are VERY difficult.
Part of the reason Rogers was even able to release the fix so quickly was because a vocal group of us has been pushing Rogers and HTC to stop this nonsense and letting us upgrade - I'm sure work had already gotten started.
I am curious about what would have happened if Rogers and HTC had continued with their no upgrades plans [androidforums.com].</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913626</id>
	<title>I wonder</title>
	<author>Kitkoan</author>
	<datestamp>1264527360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Is this phone sold as a truly 'open' phone, and does it state in the fine print you may alter the software as you wish 'at your own risk' of course. Because if it does since Android is considered an open phone, then this is a violation of the products sold upon description and would now put it as false advertising. Anyone have any of these phone and can check if it does state anything along those lines?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is this phone sold as a truly 'open ' phone , and does it state in the fine print you may alter the software as you wish 'at your own risk ' of course .
Because if it does since Android is considered an open phone , then this is a violation of the products sold upon description and would now put it as false advertising .
Anyone have any of these phone and can check if it does state anything along those lines ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is this phone sold as a truly 'open' phone, and does it state in the fine print you may alter the software as you wish 'at your own risk' of course.
Because if it does since Android is considered an open phone, then this is a violation of the products sold upon description and would now put it as false advertising.
Anyone have any of these phone and can check if it does state anything along those lines?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913784</id>
	<title>Re:Uhm, I thought it was open?</title>
	<author>adbge</author>
	<datestamp>1264529160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's the difference between all iPhones being locked and some Android phones being locked by Rogers.<br> <br>Or:<br>

ALL ELEPHANTS ARE NAMED PHIL, ERGO EVERY PHIL IS AN ELEPHANT.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's the difference between all iPhones being locked and some Android phones being locked by Rogers .
Or : ALL ELEPHANTS ARE NAMED PHIL , ERGO EVERY PHIL IS AN ELEPHANT .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's the difference between all iPhones being locked and some Android phones being locked by Rogers.
Or:

ALL ELEPHANTS ARE NAMED PHIL, ERGO EVERY PHIL IS AN ELEPHANT.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913536</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30914936</id>
	<title>Re:Rogers is terrible</title>
	<author>L4t3r4lu5</author>
	<datestamp>1264590060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Stop paying your bill. Hire a solicitor.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Stop paying your bill .
Hire a solicitor .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Stop paying your bill.
Hire a solicitor.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913524</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913602</id>
	<title>Happened to my wife...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264527120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fed up with the barrage of "URGENT" text messages &amp; direct calls from Rogers staff, my wife decided to complete the update (mostly just to stop the harassment). A failed download from the Rogers website, and a second attempt later - welcome to a bricked Android. Rogers now pays the price by mailing us a replacement. Wonder if they'll try to pass this cost on to HTC, or worse... Google?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fed up with the barrage of " URGENT " text messages &amp; direct calls from Rogers staff , my wife decided to complete the update ( mostly just to stop the harassment ) .
A failed download from the Rogers website , and a second attempt later - welcome to a bricked Android .
Rogers now pays the price by mailing us a replacement .
Wonder if they 'll try to pass this cost on to HTC , or worse... Google ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fed up with the barrage of "URGENT" text messages &amp; direct calls from Rogers staff, my wife decided to complete the update (mostly just to stop the harassment).
A failed download from the Rogers website, and a second attempt later - welcome to a bricked Android.
Rogers now pays the price by mailing us a replacement.
Wonder if they'll try to pass this cost on to HTC, or worse... Google?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30918502</id>
	<title>Re:Uhm, I thought it was open?</title>
	<author>asdfghjklqwertyuiop</author>
	<datestamp>1264612200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It depends on the specific android phone you're talking about. Some of them (like some of those sold by carriers) have firmware that will only boot specific signed OS images. Others (like the dev phone or nexus one) will boot anything you want, such as an android image set up to give you root easily.</p><p>On the other hand, standard android apps can be run on any phone (AFAIK) without needing to be signed or obtained through the android marketplace or whatever. Each app runs as its own UID and only has access to specifically granted things, however, so that's not necessarily equivalent to running your own android OS image.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It depends on the specific android phone you 're talking about .
Some of them ( like some of those sold by carriers ) have firmware that will only boot specific signed OS images .
Others ( like the dev phone or nexus one ) will boot anything you want , such as an android image set up to give you root easily.On the other hand , standard android apps can be run on any phone ( AFAIK ) without needing to be signed or obtained through the android marketplace or whatever .
Each app runs as its own UID and only has access to specifically granted things , however , so that 's not necessarily equivalent to running your own android OS image .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It depends on the specific android phone you're talking about.
Some of them (like some of those sold by carriers) have firmware that will only boot specific signed OS images.
Others (like the dev phone or nexus one) will boot anything you want, such as an android image set up to give you root easily.On the other hand, standard android apps can be run on any phone (AFAIK) without needing to be signed or obtained through the android marketplace or whatever.
Each app runs as its own UID and only has access to specifically granted things, however, so that's not necessarily equivalent to running your own android OS image.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913536</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913714</id>
	<title>GSM is not HSPDA, Telus does not have GSM.</title>
	<author>starbugs</author>
	<datestamp>1264528440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>GSM is 2G<br>Telus has HSPDA (or commonly called HSPA).<br>No GSM-only phone will work on Telus or Bell.</p><p>Many new 3G phones can use Both, so an unlocked phone can be on either network by just switching sim cards.<br>Besides having the same Tech. The phones must also support the specific frequencies used by that carrier.<br>Many European 3G phones will not work in North America.</p><p>It is rumored that Telus will get both the <a href="http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/10/motorola-milestone-headed-to-telus-in-early-2010/" title="engadget.com">Milestone</a> [engadget.com] and perhaps even the <a href="http://www.cellphones.ca/news/post0012273/" title="cellphones.ca">Opus one</a> [cellphones.ca] this year.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>GSM is 2GTelus has HSPDA ( or commonly called HSPA ) .No GSM-only phone will work on Telus or Bell.Many new 3G phones can use Both , so an unlocked phone can be on either network by just switching sim cards.Besides having the same Tech .
The phones must also support the specific frequencies used by that carrier.Many European 3G phones will not work in North America.It is rumored that Telus will get both the Milestone [ engadget.com ] and perhaps even the Opus one [ cellphones.ca ] this year .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>GSM is 2GTelus has HSPDA (or commonly called HSPA).No GSM-only phone will work on Telus or Bell.Many new 3G phones can use Both, so an unlocked phone can be on either network by just switching sim cards.Besides having the same Tech.
The phones must also support the specific frequencies used by that carrier.Many European 3G phones will not work in North America.It is rumored that Telus will get both the Milestone [engadget.com] and perhaps even the Opus one [cellphones.ca] this year.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30916520</id>
	<title>Who did which with the what now?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264604220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Months ago, a customer called Rogers</p><p>What are the chances?</p><p>I know it's a tiny thing, but "contacted" would have been a less ambiguous verb, especially for someone (i.e. everyone) who skims summary.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Months ago , a customer called RogersWhat are the chances ? I know it 's a tiny thing , but " contacted " would have been a less ambiguous verb , especially for someone ( i.e .
everyone ) who skims summary .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Months ago, a customer called RogersWhat are the chances?I know it's a tiny thing, but "contacted" would have been a less ambiguous verb, especially for someone (i.e.
everyone) who skims summary.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913518</id>
	<title>GSM Providers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264526520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Rogers is no longer the only GSM carrier. At the end of '09 Telus and Bell launched their own GSM networks. So counting Fido (owned by Rogers) there are now four Canadian GSM based carriers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Rogers is no longer the only GSM carrier .
At the end of '09 Telus and Bell launched their own GSM networks .
So counting Fido ( owned by Rogers ) there are now four Canadian GSM based carriers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Rogers is no longer the only GSM carrier.
At the end of '09 Telus and Bell launched their own GSM networks.
So counting Fido (owned by Rogers) there are now four Canadian GSM based carriers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30914020</id>
	<title>I stand corrected</title>
	<author>Wolfier</author>
	<datestamp>1264531920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thanks for letting me know Rogers is no longer the GSM monopoly here.  Here is some more background information and more of my opinions below.</p><p>The bug was, when GPS is turned on, calls to 911 can crash the phone.  This bug was fixed in Android 1.6 and subsequent releases, which came out months ago.  However, Rogers stated that there'd be no 1.6 updates to their customers (contrary to what Magic users in other countries can do).</p><p>Data for all Dream/Magic users went down on Sunday, and will remain down until the update is applied.  The reason for data shut down is that, apart from shutting down GPS, which a carrier cannot do remotely, shutting down data is also a work-around for the 911 call issue - so, this way it's guaranteed that 911 calls will always succeed from the moment they activated the block, thus, covering their ass from potential lawsuits.</p><p>What's on the update:<br>1. The 911/GPS crash fix in the main firmware.<br>2. HTC's new Sense UI made for 1.5.<br>3. New radio firmware<br>4. New bootloader firmware</p><p>#1 is the only necessary part to fix the 911 issue.  #2 is of dubious usefulness to users, especially if it requires a full backup, that Rogers claimed can be done with "3rd party software" - but the software that can fully back the phone up are all root-user-only.  How ironic.</p><p>#3 and #4 are out of pure user control so customers can no longer unlock or root or run custom firmware.  I have no complaint if it's for subsidised phones.  However, unsubsidised phones (i.e. those we have paid a full price to buy) are also forced to update, even for people who run custom firmware that *already* has the 911 issue fixed.</p><p>So we're given 2 carrots (911 fix and Sense UI) and 2 big sticks (useless control freak firmware updates).</p><p>My opinion is, they could have rolled out a fix sooner - if a lone hacker can do it in his spare time, I'm sure a major wireless carrier can do it - the sooner the better, because there are people whose life might be at risk.</p><p>Instead, Rogers probably spent a lot of time testing the unnecessary parts of the fix (Radio firmware and Bootloader), and also testing their totally useless "add-ons" (branding, partner bookmarks, unremovable links to Rogers Shop, "Ringback", Ringtone purchases, etc.) - without wasting time testing these unnecessary parts that provide negative values to their customers, especially those using unsubsidised phones, I imagine they could have rolled out the fix sooner - even for only ONE day, and putting less of our lives in danger.  In my opinion, it's putting profits higher than customer safety.</p><p>They say they cannot support rooted phones, but people are not asking for support.  They're only asking to get the service they have paid for - "service" meaning usable bandwidth.   Somehow these carriers or some backwards-thinking PHB inside still think they can provide something more than bandwidth, and forcing these extra "services" to unsubsidised phones somehow seem to have a priority even when customer safety is at stake.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thanks for letting me know Rogers is no longer the GSM monopoly here .
Here is some more background information and more of my opinions below.The bug was , when GPS is turned on , calls to 911 can crash the phone .
This bug was fixed in Android 1.6 and subsequent releases , which came out months ago .
However , Rogers stated that there 'd be no 1.6 updates to their customers ( contrary to what Magic users in other countries can do ) .Data for all Dream/Magic users went down on Sunday , and will remain down until the update is applied .
The reason for data shut down is that , apart from shutting down GPS , which a carrier can not do remotely , shutting down data is also a work-around for the 911 call issue - so , this way it 's guaranteed that 911 calls will always succeed from the moment they activated the block , thus , covering their ass from potential lawsuits.What 's on the update : 1 .
The 911/GPS crash fix in the main firmware.2 .
HTC 's new Sense UI made for 1.5.3 .
New radio firmware4 .
New bootloader firmware # 1 is the only necessary part to fix the 911 issue .
# 2 is of dubious usefulness to users , especially if it requires a full backup , that Rogers claimed can be done with " 3rd party software " - but the software that can fully back the phone up are all root-user-only .
How ironic. # 3 and # 4 are out of pure user control so customers can no longer unlock or root or run custom firmware .
I have no complaint if it 's for subsidised phones .
However , unsubsidised phones ( i.e .
those we have paid a full price to buy ) are also forced to update , even for people who run custom firmware that * already * has the 911 issue fixed.So we 're given 2 carrots ( 911 fix and Sense UI ) and 2 big sticks ( useless control freak firmware updates ) .My opinion is , they could have rolled out a fix sooner - if a lone hacker can do it in his spare time , I 'm sure a major wireless carrier can do it - the sooner the better , because there are people whose life might be at risk.Instead , Rogers probably spent a lot of time testing the unnecessary parts of the fix ( Radio firmware and Bootloader ) , and also testing their totally useless " add-ons " ( branding , partner bookmarks , unremovable links to Rogers Shop , " Ringback " , Ringtone purchases , etc .
) - without wasting time testing these unnecessary parts that provide negative values to their customers , especially those using unsubsidised phones , I imagine they could have rolled out the fix sooner - even for only ONE day , and putting less of our lives in danger .
In my opinion , it 's putting profits higher than customer safety.They say they can not support rooted phones , but people are not asking for support .
They 're only asking to get the service they have paid for - " service " meaning usable bandwidth .
Somehow these carriers or some backwards-thinking PHB inside still think they can provide something more than bandwidth , and forcing these extra " services " to unsubsidised phones somehow seem to have a priority even when customer safety is at stake .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thanks for letting me know Rogers is no longer the GSM monopoly here.
Here is some more background information and more of my opinions below.The bug was, when GPS is turned on, calls to 911 can crash the phone.
This bug was fixed in Android 1.6 and subsequent releases, which came out months ago.
However, Rogers stated that there'd be no 1.6 updates to their customers (contrary to what Magic users in other countries can do).Data for all Dream/Magic users went down on Sunday, and will remain down until the update is applied.
The reason for data shut down is that, apart from shutting down GPS, which a carrier cannot do remotely, shutting down data is also a work-around for the 911 call issue - so, this way it's guaranteed that 911 calls will always succeed from the moment they activated the block, thus, covering their ass from potential lawsuits.What's on the update:1.
The 911/GPS crash fix in the main firmware.2.
HTC's new Sense UI made for 1.5.3.
New radio firmware4.
New bootloader firmware#1 is the only necessary part to fix the 911 issue.
#2 is of dubious usefulness to users, especially if it requires a full backup, that Rogers claimed can be done with "3rd party software" - but the software that can fully back the phone up are all root-user-only.
How ironic.#3 and #4 are out of pure user control so customers can no longer unlock or root or run custom firmware.
I have no complaint if it's for subsidised phones.
However, unsubsidised phones (i.e.
those we have paid a full price to buy) are also forced to update, even for people who run custom firmware that *already* has the 911 issue fixed.So we're given 2 carrots (911 fix and Sense UI) and 2 big sticks (useless control freak firmware updates).My opinion is, they could have rolled out a fix sooner - if a lone hacker can do it in his spare time, I'm sure a major wireless carrier can do it - the sooner the better, because there are people whose life might be at risk.Instead, Rogers probably spent a lot of time testing the unnecessary parts of the fix (Radio firmware and Bootloader), and also testing their totally useless "add-ons" (branding, partner bookmarks, unremovable links to Rogers Shop, "Ringback", Ringtone purchases, etc.
) - without wasting time testing these unnecessary parts that provide negative values to their customers, especially those using unsubsidised phones, I imagine they could have rolled out the fix sooner - even for only ONE day, and putting less of our lives in danger.
In my opinion, it's putting profits higher than customer safety.They say they cannot support rooted phones, but people are not asking for support.
They're only asking to get the service they have paid for - "service" meaning usable bandwidth.
Somehow these carriers or some backwards-thinking PHB inside still think they can provide something more than bandwidth, and forcing these extra "services" to unsubsidised phones somehow seem to have a priority even when customer safety is at stake.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913944</id>
	<title>Re:Contract breaking?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264531020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Rogers is automatically crediting 1 month data service because of this issue.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Rogers is automatically crediting 1 month data service because of this issue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Rogers is automatically crediting 1 month data service because of this issue.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913664</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30917072</id>
	<title>Re:On top of all that...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264606740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The user-applied fix isn't available for Mac or Windows 7 users<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</i></p><p><i>I haven't been able to find any evidence of Rogers-capable phone-sync software that works on my Mac (it's all Windows only).</i></p><p>Look, Mac users are second-class citizens. Get used to it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The user-applied fix is n't available for Mac or Windows 7 users ...I have n't been able to find any evidence of Rogers-capable phone-sync software that works on my Mac ( it 's all Windows only ) .Look , Mac users are second-class citizens .
Get used to it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The user-applied fix isn't available for Mac or Windows 7 users ...I haven't been able to find any evidence of Rogers-capable phone-sync software that works on my Mac (it's all Windows only).Look, Mac users are second-class citizens.
Get used to it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913734</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30929962</id>
	<title>Re:On top of all that...</title>
	<author>dakohli</author>
	<datestamp>1264617420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm in the same boat.  I called, waited for 40 minutes, then was berated by a Rogers Service Desk Employee for not having a Windows XP machine.  I have Win 7 running on a desktop and netbook, and Linux on another desktop. After haranguing me for a few minutes he sent me an email with download instructions for a file that need to be put on the SD card.  I booted up and voila, 1/2 hour later I was upgraded.<p>
Of course I still had to wait the rest of the 24 hrs before I got my network services back.  And when I did, imagine my surprise when the battery life was significantly shortened.</p><p>
I have to charge it all night, and by 4pm the phone is shutdown for lack of power.  GPS, Wifi, 3g all turned off.  Near as I can figure, my weather app is draining the life out of it.  Before the update, I could get 36 hours before worrying about the charge.</p><p>
So, I guess I'm going to leave Android and go to something else.  I just want my phone to work.</p><p>
Not much to ask, eh?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm in the same boat .
I called , waited for 40 minutes , then was berated by a Rogers Service Desk Employee for not having a Windows XP machine .
I have Win 7 running on a desktop and netbook , and Linux on another desktop .
After haranguing me for a few minutes he sent me an email with download instructions for a file that need to be put on the SD card .
I booted up and voila , 1/2 hour later I was upgraded .
Of course I still had to wait the rest of the 24 hrs before I got my network services back .
And when I did , imagine my surprise when the battery life was significantly shortened .
I have to charge it all night , and by 4pm the phone is shutdown for lack of power .
GPS , Wifi , 3g all turned off .
Near as I can figure , my weather app is draining the life out of it .
Before the update , I could get 36 hours before worrying about the charge .
So , I guess I 'm going to leave Android and go to something else .
I just want my phone to work .
Not much to ask , eh ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm in the same boat.
I called, waited for 40 minutes, then was berated by a Rogers Service Desk Employee for not having a Windows XP machine.
I have Win 7 running on a desktop and netbook, and Linux on another desktop.
After haranguing me for a few minutes he sent me an email with download instructions for a file that need to be put on the SD card.
I booted up and voila, 1/2 hour later I was upgraded.
Of course I still had to wait the rest of the 24 hrs before I got my network services back.
And when I did, imagine my surprise when the battery life was significantly shortened.
I have to charge it all night, and by 4pm the phone is shutdown for lack of power.
GPS, Wifi, 3g all turned off.
Near as I can figure, my weather app is draining the life out of it.
Before the update, I could get 36 hours before worrying about the charge.
So, I guess I'm going to leave Android and go to something else.
I just want my phone to work.
Not much to ask, eh?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913734</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30921238</id>
	<title>Re:Contract breaking?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264621920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>no need to demand a credit<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... they're providing a credit for one month of data service</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>no need to demand a credit ... they 're providing a credit for one month of data service</tokentext>
<sentencetext>no need to demand a credit ... they're providing a credit for one month of data service</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913664</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913798</id>
	<title>Re:GSM Providers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264529280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wind is only available in Metropolitan areas in the east right now so it's not an option for any of us in the west.  At least not yet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wind is only available in Metropolitan areas in the east right now so it 's not an option for any of us in the west .
At least not yet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wind is only available in Metropolitan areas in the east right now so it's not an option for any of us in the west.
At least not yet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913564</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30918276</id>
	<title>It's simple really. It's all about money.</title>
	<author>Makito</author>
	<datestamp>1264611360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Contra to the summary, this is not some kind of monopolist ploy for customer domination. It's simple really. It's all about money.

The legal team at Rogers realized (or got sued and settled) that in case of a carrier provided phone fails to operate as expected during an emergency, while Rogers having full prior knowledge of this fault and having done nothing, could foreseeably be held for damages and some kind of punitive measure.

Car Analogy: You're driving a car that comes with OnStar. A manufacturer fault with OnStar may cause the car to suddenly turn off if you press the "OnStar help" button. Car Manuf issues a recalls. Know that they can't reach all customers with any urgency or certainty, they remotely disable your radio, lights, etc with the expectation that you'll notice those problems immediately and bring your car in for service regardless if you are aware of the recall.

(Not exactly the best analogy, but basicly.....)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Contra to the summary , this is not some kind of monopolist ploy for customer domination .
It 's simple really .
It 's all about money .
The legal team at Rogers realized ( or got sued and settled ) that in case of a carrier provided phone fails to operate as expected during an emergency , while Rogers having full prior knowledge of this fault and having done nothing , could foreseeably be held for damages and some kind of punitive measure .
Car Analogy : You 're driving a car that comes with OnStar .
A manufacturer fault with OnStar may cause the car to suddenly turn off if you press the " OnStar help " button .
Car Manuf issues a recalls .
Know that they ca n't reach all customers with any urgency or certainty , they remotely disable your radio , lights , etc with the expectation that you 'll notice those problems immediately and bring your car in for service regardless if you are aware of the recall .
( Not exactly the best analogy , but basicly..... )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Contra to the summary, this is not some kind of monopolist ploy for customer domination.
It's simple really.
It's all about money.
The legal team at Rogers realized (or got sued and settled) that in case of a carrier provided phone fails to operate as expected during an emergency, while Rogers having full prior knowledge of this fault and having done nothing, could foreseeably be held for damages and some kind of punitive measure.
Car Analogy: You're driving a car that comes with OnStar.
A manufacturer fault with OnStar may cause the car to suddenly turn off if you press the "OnStar help" button.
Car Manuf issues a recalls.
Know that they can't reach all customers with any urgency or certainty, they remotely disable your radio, lights, etc with the expectation that you'll notice those problems immediately and bring your car in for service regardless if you are aware of the recall.
(Not exactly the best analogy, but basicly.....)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913624</id>
	<title>Read a full background here</title>
	<author>litui</author>
	<datestamp>1264527360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've documented everything I've collected on the issue here: <a href="http://www.litui.net/archives/796" title="litui.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.litui.net/archives/796</a> [litui.net]</p><p>More detailed and ordered than the OP's links.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've documented everything I 've collected on the issue here : http : //www.litui.net/archives/796 [ litui.net ] More detailed and ordered than the OP 's links .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've documented everything I've collected on the issue here: http://www.litui.net/archives/796 [litui.net]More detailed and ordered than the OP's links.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30915494</id>
	<title>Re:Some phones are more open than Android</title>
	<author>migla</author>
	<datestamp>1264597560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...sorry forgot to clarify how I agree with you:</p><p>Yes, if the carriers can tivoize (would that term apply here?) Android in this way, that is obviously one hell of a big reduction of the "openness".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...sorry forgot to clarify how I agree with you : Yes , if the carriers can tivoize ( would that term apply here ?
) Android in this way , that is obviously one hell of a big reduction of the " openness " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...sorry forgot to clarify how I agree with you:Yes, if the carriers can tivoize (would that term apply here?
) Android in this way, that is obviously one hell of a big reduction of the "openness".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913846</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913564</id>
	<title>Re:GSM Providers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264526880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You forgot Wind Mobile, and Dave Wireless</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You forgot Wind Mobile , and Dave Wireless</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You forgot Wind Mobile, and Dave Wireless</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913578</id>
	<title>Re:Uhm, I thought it was open?</title>
	<author>calmofthestorm</author>
	<datestamp>1264526940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Google is to Apple as Rogers is to AT&amp;T here; this is the carrier being evil. On the iPhone it's both. Of course, you can just jailbreak your iPhone so I don't see a huge difference either way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Google is to Apple as Rogers is to AT&amp;T here ; this is the carrier being evil .
On the iPhone it 's both .
Of course , you can just jailbreak your iPhone so I do n't see a huge difference either way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Google is to Apple as Rogers is to AT&amp;T here; this is the carrier being evil.
On the iPhone it's both.
Of course, you can just jailbreak your iPhone so I don't see a huge difference either way.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913536</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30914276</id>
	<title>yes</title>
	<author>CHRONOSS2008</author>
	<datestamp>1264535460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>dont care you dont need to be a lawyer if they change the terms and or pricing of any part of a Canadian contract it is considered breached .<br>YOU have then two remedies<br>A) SUE them for loss of service in small claims court ( was 10,000$ maximum in small claims as of January 1st its now 25,000$)<br>B) Leave said contract with no possible penalty to you.</p><p>In both they cannot charge you any fee for leaving unless you say owe for the actual hardware which at that point should be returned.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>dont care you dont need to be a lawyer if they change the terms and or pricing of any part of a Canadian contract it is considered breached .YOU have then two remediesA ) SUE them for loss of service in small claims court ( was 10,000 $ maximum in small claims as of January 1st its now 25,000 $ ) B ) Leave said contract with no possible penalty to you.In both they can not charge you any fee for leaving unless you say owe for the actual hardware which at that point should be returned .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>dont care you dont need to be a lawyer if they change the terms and or pricing of any part of a Canadian contract it is considered breached .YOU have then two remediesA) SUE them for loss of service in small claims court ( was 10,000$ maximum in small claims as of January 1st its now 25,000$)B) Leave said contract with no possible penalty to you.In both they cannot charge you any fee for leaving unless you say owe for the actual hardware which at that point should be returned.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913664</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.31018686</id>
	<title>Free Software</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264956780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Comment Posted on behalf of Richard M Stallman</p><p>If all the software in the Android phone were free, users would be<br>able to pretend they have accepted the "security" patch while not<br>actually running it.  In fact, some of the software in Android is<br>free.  Is that enough free software to make this possible?</p><p>rms</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Comment Posted on behalf of Richard M StallmanIf all the software in the Android phone were free , users would beable to pretend they have accepted the " security " patch while notactually running it .
In fact , some of the software in Android isfree .
Is that enough free software to make this possible ? rms</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Comment Posted on behalf of Richard M StallmanIf all the software in the Android phone were free, users would beable to pretend they have accepted the "security" patch while notactually running it.
In fact, some of the software in Android isfree.
Is that enough free software to make this possible?rms</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30930694</id>
	<title>Up North??</title>
	<author>twoHats</author>
	<datestamp>1264669800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How about down south here in NH?  Where i was told today (by the only dsl carrier i can get - TDS) "Yes - 3Mbs is the fastest available..." - meanwhile (to lazy to url)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. tells me that british telcom is offering some crazy (40Mbs?) speed for around 33USD - wtf??</htmltext>
<tokenext>How about down south here in NH ?
Where i was told today ( by the only dsl carrier i can get - TDS ) " Yes - 3Mbs is the fastest available... " - meanwhile ( to lazy to url ) / .
tells me that british telcom is offering some crazy ( 40Mbs ?
) speed for around 33USD - wtf ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about down south here in NH?
Where i was told today (by the only dsl carrier i can get - TDS) "Yes - 3Mbs is the fastest available..." - meanwhile (to lazy to url) /.
tells me that british telcom is offering some crazy (40Mbs?
) speed for around 33USD - wtf?
?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30918144</id>
	<title>Re:GSM Providers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264610880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I cannot aggree more.. GSM carrier in canada is a mafia cartel !</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I can not aggree more.. GSM carrier in canada is a mafia cartel !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I cannot aggree more.. GSM carrier in canada is a mafia cartel !</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913670</id>
	<title>Always Nice</title>
	<author>hduff</author>
	<datestamp>1264527960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Always nice to see a company exhibit such care for their customers and not be evil/greedy/stupid. Oh, wait . . .</htmltext>
<tokenext>Always nice to see a company exhibit such care for their customers and not be evil/greedy/stupid .
Oh , wait .
. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Always nice to see a company exhibit such care for their customers and not be evil/greedy/stupid.
Oh, wait .
. .</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913808</id>
	<title>Ruh roh..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264529460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><b>Damsel:</b> Help me, please! My husband is having a heart attack!<br>
<b>911:</b> This call cannot be processed until you upgrade your phones firmware. For more information, press 1. To speak with a technician, press 2.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Damsel : Help me , please !
My husband is having a heart attack !
911 : This call can not be processed until you upgrade your phones firmware .
For more information , press 1 .
To speak with a technician , press 2 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Damsel: Help me, please!
My husband is having a heart attack!
911: This call cannot be processed until you upgrade your phones firmware.
For more information, press 1.
To speak with a technician, press 2.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30918630</id>
	<title>Re:On top of all that...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264612680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>FWIW (and assuming you have the Dream), there is a shortcut to the firmware file available from Rogers' web site. Point your browser to http://www.rogers.com/dream-zip/ and it will redirect to the nbh file. Save the file to the root of your SD card. Turn the phone off. Hold down the camera button and the power button until you get the bootloader. When prompted, click the trackball to accept the update.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>FWIW ( and assuming you have the Dream ) , there is a shortcut to the firmware file available from Rogers ' web site .
Point your browser to http : //www.rogers.com/dream-zip/ and it will redirect to the nbh file .
Save the file to the root of your SD card .
Turn the phone off .
Hold down the camera button and the power button until you get the bootloader .
When prompted , click the trackball to accept the update .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FWIW (and assuming you have the Dream), there is a shortcut to the firmware file available from Rogers' web site.
Point your browser to http://www.rogers.com/dream-zip/ and it will redirect to the nbh file.
Save the file to the root of your SD card.
Turn the phone off.
Hold down the camera button and the power button until you get the bootloader.
When prompted, click the trackball to accept the update.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913734</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30915440</id>
	<title>Re:Some phones are more open than Android</title>
	<author>migla</author>
	<datestamp>1264596960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Really, although Android has Linux, among the Linux-based phone OSs, it is probably the most closed.</p></div></blockquote><p>Yes and no. While I wouldn't have gotten anything but the n900, for precisely the fact that Maemo is more like a regular (gnu/)linux distro compared to Android and WebOS, I hear that for example Android is indeed as much open as far as licences on code goes.</p><p>I havern't listened yet, but the software freedom law show talks about mobile software freedom in a recent podcast: <a href="http://www.softwarefreedom.org/podcast/2010/jan/19/0x1F/" title="softwarefreedom.org">http://www.softwarefreedom.org/podcast/2010/jan/19/0x1F/</a> [softwarefreedom.org]</p><p>Apparently they side with Android (but partly because there are more hardware vendors to choose from, I hear).</p><p>But, again. I prefer maemo 5 on the n900, because I want an open "linux distro" on my phone, not just an open "linux based newfangled mobile phone OS" (or whatchamacallit, I realize one might technically call Android or WebOS "distros", but you know what I mean).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Really , although Android has Linux , among the Linux-based phone OSs , it is probably the most closed.Yes and no .
While I would n't have gotten anything but the n900 , for precisely the fact that Maemo is more like a regular ( gnu/ ) linux distro compared to Android and WebOS , I hear that for example Android is indeed as much open as far as licences on code goes.I haver n't listened yet , but the software freedom law show talks about mobile software freedom in a recent podcast : http : //www.softwarefreedom.org/podcast/2010/jan/19/0x1F/ [ softwarefreedom.org ] Apparently they side with Android ( but partly because there are more hardware vendors to choose from , I hear ) .But , again .
I prefer maemo 5 on the n900 , because I want an open " linux distro " on my phone , not just an open " linux based newfangled mobile phone OS " ( or whatchamacallit , I realize one might technically call Android or WebOS " distros " , but you know what I mean ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Really, although Android has Linux, among the Linux-based phone OSs, it is probably the most closed.Yes and no.
While I wouldn't have gotten anything but the n900, for precisely the fact that Maemo is more like a regular (gnu/)linux distro compared to Android and WebOS, I hear that for example Android is indeed as much open as far as licences on code goes.I havern't listened yet, but the software freedom law show talks about mobile software freedom in a recent podcast: http://www.softwarefreedom.org/podcast/2010/jan/19/0x1F/ [softwarefreedom.org]Apparently they side with Android (but partly because there are more hardware vendors to choose from, I hear).But, again.
I prefer maemo 5 on the n900, because I want an open "linux distro" on my phone, not just an open "linux based newfangled mobile phone OS" (or whatchamacallit, I realize one might technically call Android or WebOS "distros", but you know what I mean).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913846</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913942</id>
	<title>Re:Android fanboyism</title>
	<author>H0p313ss</author>
	<datestamp>1264531020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Android fanboys never had a solid reason to claim that Android is more open than iPhone. Sure, it runs (modified) Linux. But that doesn't imply openness.</p></div><p>Well I won't call myself a fanboy since my phone is a Blackberry, but Android is the most open phone platform out there. Name another successful platform for which most of the source code is freely available,whose bug database is publicly accessible and accepts patches?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Android fanboys never had a solid reason to claim that Android is more open than iPhone .
Sure , it runs ( modified ) Linux .
But that does n't imply openness.Well I wo n't call myself a fanboy since my phone is a Blackberry , but Android is the most open phone platform out there .
Name another successful platform for which most of the source code is freely available,whose bug database is publicly accessible and accepts patches ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Android fanboys never had a solid reason to claim that Android is more open than iPhone.
Sure, it runs (modified) Linux.
But that doesn't imply openness.Well I won't call myself a fanboy since my phone is a Blackberry, but Android is the most open phone platform out there.
Name another successful platform for which most of the source code is freely available,whose bug database is publicly accessible and accepts patches?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913794</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913768</id>
	<title>Re:Contract breaking?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264528980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You and I might see the logic in the argument, but I doubt there's much legal leg to stand on even if you cared to try and fight it. They're not "refusing to provide service", they're "requiring an update" for a problem which happens to (somehow) conflict with an essential (911) service. Install the fix, and you're back in action, so they're not denying you much at all. All of this will be covered under the Terms of Service I'm sure. I doubt any judge will go for the "they should be doing better than they are" argument.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You and I might see the logic in the argument , but I doubt there 's much legal leg to stand on even if you cared to try and fight it .
They 're not " refusing to provide service " , they 're " requiring an update " for a problem which happens to ( somehow ) conflict with an essential ( 911 ) service .
Install the fix , and you 're back in action , so they 're not denying you much at all .
All of this will be covered under the Terms of Service I 'm sure .
I doubt any judge will go for the " they should be doing better than they are " argument .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You and I might see the logic in the argument, but I doubt there's much legal leg to stand on even if you cared to try and fight it.
They're not "refusing to provide service", they're "requiring an update" for a problem which happens to (somehow) conflict with an essential (911) service.
Install the fix, and you're back in action, so they're not denying you much at all.
All of this will be covered under the Terms of Service I'm sure.
I doubt any judge will go for the "they should be doing better than they are" argument.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913664</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30914432</id>
	<title>Wireless by the Cable Companies</title>
	<author>wwwillem</author>
	<datestamp>1264624260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well said!!</p><p>Let's hope that the various cable companies like Shaw here in the west and EastLink in the Atlantic are stepping into the cellphone market. Here in Calgary, ten years ago Shaw gave Telus a beating when it came to Fast Internet and currently they make pretty good inroads in the VoIP market.</p><p>On the other hand, also the pricing of cable companies seems to go up-and-up with no end in sight. So also they could use some more competition.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well said !
! Let 's hope that the various cable companies like Shaw here in the west and EastLink in the Atlantic are stepping into the cellphone market .
Here in Calgary , ten years ago Shaw gave Telus a beating when it came to Fast Internet and currently they make pretty good inroads in the VoIP market.On the other hand , also the pricing of cable companies seems to go up-and-up with no end in sight .
So also they could use some more competition .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well said!
!Let's hope that the various cable companies like Shaw here in the west and EastLink in the Atlantic are stepping into the cellphone market.
Here in Calgary, ten years ago Shaw gave Telus a beating when it came to Fast Internet and currently they make pretty good inroads in the VoIP market.On the other hand, also the pricing of cable companies seems to go up-and-up with no end in sight.
So also they could use some more competition.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913888</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913646</id>
	<title>Anyone heard of the CDMA Android phones?</title>
	<author>mr\_mischief</author>
	<datestamp>1264527780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Android is available on both GSM and CDMA phones. You don't have to have a GSM carrier to get a phone running Android.</p><p>HTC Hero, HTC Drois Eris, Motorola Droid, and the Samsung Moment are all CDMA Android phones.</p><p>I understand most of the CDMA Android phones are locked to specific carriers, and that could be an issue. If your carrier can't get a phone, that's a problem between the manufacturer and the carrier. It's not a CDMA vs. GSM issue that a particular carrier is refusing to secure your OS of choice.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Android is available on both GSM and CDMA phones .
You do n't have to have a GSM carrier to get a phone running Android.HTC Hero , HTC Drois Eris , Motorola Droid , and the Samsung Moment are all CDMA Android phones.I understand most of the CDMA Android phones are locked to specific carriers , and that could be an issue .
If your carrier ca n't get a phone , that 's a problem between the manufacturer and the carrier .
It 's not a CDMA vs. GSM issue that a particular carrier is refusing to secure your OS of choice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Android is available on both GSM and CDMA phones.
You don't have to have a GSM carrier to get a phone running Android.HTC Hero, HTC Drois Eris, Motorola Droid, and the Samsung Moment are all CDMA Android phones.I understand most of the CDMA Android phones are locked to specific carriers, and that could be an issue.
If your carrier can't get a phone, that's a problem between the manufacturer and the carrier.
It's not a CDMA vs. GSM issue that a particular carrier is refusing to secure your OS of choice.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913842</id>
	<title>Re:open means closed for cellphones</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1264529700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>OpenMoko is open if by open you mean unusable and useless.  Seriously give up with the OpenMoko crap, it failed, no one actually gives a shit outside of a small portion of the tech community.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>OpenMoko is open if by open you mean unusable and useless .
Seriously give up with the OpenMoko crap , it failed , no one actually gives a shit outside of a small portion of the tech community .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OpenMoko is open if by open you mean unusable and useless.
Seriously give up with the OpenMoko crap, it failed, no one actually gives a shit outside of a small portion of the tech community.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913604</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30915858</id>
	<title>Re:Security Updates... now with push support!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264600140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>they could easily have done this as an over the air update direct to handsets, and 5 months ago too...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>they could easily have done this as an over the air update direct to handsets , and 5 months ago too.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>they could easily have done this as an over the air update direct to handsets, and 5 months ago too...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913580</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30919950</id>
	<title>Is it stupid to ask...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264617780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...how they detect if you've installed it? The IMEI won't change (i hope<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)) after an update, and they can't seriously just check den Browser-Agent?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...how they detect if you 've installed it ?
The IMEI wo n't change ( i hope ; ) ) after an update , and they ca n't seriously just check den Browser-Agent ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...how they detect if you've installed it?
The IMEI won't change (i hope ;)) after an update, and they can't seriously just check den Browser-Agent?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913932</id>
	<title>but but !!</title>
	<author>timmarhy</author>
	<datestamp>1264530960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>micheal moore has told me all about how wonderful canada is and how all it's government control and regulation has made it a paradise!!</htmltext>
<tokenext>micheal moore has told me all about how wonderful canada is and how all it 's government control and regulation has made it a paradise !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>micheal moore has told me all about how wonderful canada is and how all it's government control and regulation has made it a paradise!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913978</id>
	<title>Re:How ironic</title>
	<author>JobyKSU</author>
	<datestamp>1264531500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Or are they currently the most abusive monopoly Canucks have to live with?</p></div><p>No - that would be Telus. The area of Alberta where I lived - a new landline waiting list was over 2 years. Well, that was when a time was quoted or you weren't told unequivocally "no." Customer service is a joke.<br> <br>

Now, after moving to Toronto, my experience is vastly different. Rogers is giving me 10mbs at home for prices comparable to what I paid in the US, respectable speed and 6gb tethering with mobile... 50 mbps available (if you want to pay). Plus, a healthy bit of competition has the major companies (Rogers, Telus, and Bell) competing for subscribers with phone, mobile, TV, and internet packages - and a corresponding increase in quality of customer service here. <br> <br>

It all comes down to location when dealing with these corps in Canada.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Or are they currently the most abusive monopoly Canucks have to live with ? No - that would be Telus .
The area of Alberta where I lived - a new landline waiting list was over 2 years .
Well , that was when a time was quoted or you were n't told unequivocally " no .
" Customer service is a joke .
Now , after moving to Toronto , my experience is vastly different .
Rogers is giving me 10mbs at home for prices comparable to what I paid in the US , respectable speed and 6gb tethering with mobile... 50 mbps available ( if you want to pay ) .
Plus , a healthy bit of competition has the major companies ( Rogers , Telus , and Bell ) competing for subscribers with phone , mobile , TV , and internet packages - and a corresponding increase in quality of customer service here .
It all comes down to location when dealing with these corps in Canada .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or are they currently the most abusive monopoly Canucks have to live with?No - that would be Telus.
The area of Alberta where I lived - a new landline waiting list was over 2 years.
Well, that was when a time was quoted or you weren't told unequivocally "no.
" Customer service is a joke.
Now, after moving to Toronto, my experience is vastly different.
Rogers is giving me 10mbs at home for prices comparable to what I paid in the US, respectable speed and 6gb tethering with mobile... 50 mbps available (if you want to pay).
Plus, a healthy bit of competition has the major companies (Rogers, Telus, and Bell) competing for subscribers with phone, mobile, TV, and internet packages - and a corresponding increase in quality of customer service here.
It all comes down to location when dealing with these corps in Canada.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913570</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30914298</id>
	<title>Re:Security Updates... now with push support!</title>
	<author>mjwx</author>
	<datestamp>1264535820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>What a contradictory situation this brings up...</p></div></blockquote><p>

Not really,<br> <br>

You're assuming all phones are as locked down and restricted as a certain phone, Android devices are not. You see the telco only controls the service, not the handset. You <b>can</b> wait for the telco to get of their arse and publish an update or you can do it yourself as many Optus (Australia) and Rogers Dream owners have already done.<br> <br>

Now Rogers is being a bastard and threatening to cut off any user who does not upgrade to the latest Rogers ROM. Smart Canadians already have already devised a method of defeating this of course. Now only if Canada had some kind of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian\_Competition\_and\_Consumer\_Commission" title="wikipedia.org">orgnaisation mandated to protect consumer rights, business rights and monitor for abuses</a> [wikipedia.org] that would tear a telco apart for this kind of douchbagery.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What a contradictory situation this brings up.. . Not really , You 're assuming all phones are as locked down and restricted as a certain phone , Android devices are not .
You see the telco only controls the service , not the handset .
You can wait for the telco to get of their arse and publish an update or you can do it yourself as many Optus ( Australia ) and Rogers Dream owners have already done .
Now Rogers is being a bastard and threatening to cut off any user who does not upgrade to the latest Rogers ROM .
Smart Canadians already have already devised a method of defeating this of course .
Now only if Canada had some kind of orgnaisation mandated to protect consumer rights , business rights and monitor for abuses [ wikipedia.org ] that would tear a telco apart for this kind of douchbagery .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What a contradictory situation this brings up...

Not really, 

You're assuming all phones are as locked down and restricted as a certain phone, Android devices are not.
You see the telco only controls the service, not the handset.
You can wait for the telco to get of their arse and publish an update or you can do it yourself as many Optus (Australia) and Rogers Dream owners have already done.
Now Rogers is being a bastard and threatening to cut off any user who does not upgrade to the latest Rogers ROM.
Smart Canadians already have already devised a method of defeating this of course.
Now only if Canada had some kind of orgnaisation mandated to protect consumer rights, business rights and monitor for abuses [wikipedia.org] that would tear a telco apart for this kind of douchbagery.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913580</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30915556</id>
	<title>I don't blame them</title>
	<author>Chrisq</author>
	<datestamp>1264597920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I can't blame them for forcing this update. Firstly they have a legal obligation to ensure that people can contact the emergency services wherever possible. Secondly if they didn't and someone got injured because they could not report an incident they could be severely sued<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... like punitive damages.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't blame them for forcing this update .
Firstly they have a legal obligation to ensure that people can contact the emergency services wherever possible .
Secondly if they did n't and someone got injured because they could not report an incident they could be severely sued ... like punitive damages .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't blame them for forcing this update.
Firstly they have a legal obligation to ensure that people can contact the emergency services wherever possible.
Secondly if they didn't and someone got injured because they could not report an incident they could be severely sued ... like punitive damages.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30914602</id>
	<title>Re:GSM Providers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264584300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wind is available in Calgary.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wind is available in Calgary .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wind is available in Calgary.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913798</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913734</id>
	<title>On top of all that...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264528620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
The user-applied fix isn't available for Mac or Windows 7 users. Those users are required to call into the Rogers tech support line to get the fix.
</p><p>
I did that, and had to wait on hold for over 30 minutes while the phone support waded through the (expected) deluge of calls. When I got through, I was told that I could either:
</p><ul>
<li>Go to a Rogers store to get the fix</li><li>Have a micro-SD card shipped to me (3-5 biz days wait) that contained a fix. (I don't know why they couldn't offer the fix for download).</li>
</ul><p>
I stopped in the Rogers store to get the fix. I waited for about 20 minutes while the customer support people (calling them "techs" wouldn't be accurate) installed the fix software on their in-store computers. Then I was told that the fix would wipe my phone. Did I have a backup? I said no; I haven't been able to find any evidence of Rogers-capable phone-sync software that works on my Mac (it's all Windows only). The store person offered to make a backup there, but after doing so he said that it only backed up my contacts, not my apps or settings (IMO the important parts). I walked out hoping that the SD solution will be better, but at <em>best</em>, I'm locked out of my wireless Internet service for 3-5 days.
</p><p>
It's hard to imagine how Rogers could have made this process worse.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The user-applied fix is n't available for Mac or Windows 7 users .
Those users are required to call into the Rogers tech support line to get the fix .
I did that , and had to wait on hold for over 30 minutes while the phone support waded through the ( expected ) deluge of calls .
When I got through , I was told that I could either : Go to a Rogers store to get the fixHave a micro-SD card shipped to me ( 3-5 biz days wait ) that contained a fix .
( I do n't know why they could n't offer the fix for download ) .
I stopped in the Rogers store to get the fix .
I waited for about 20 minutes while the customer support people ( calling them " techs " would n't be accurate ) installed the fix software on their in-store computers .
Then I was told that the fix would wipe my phone .
Did I have a backup ?
I said no ; I have n't been able to find any evidence of Rogers-capable phone-sync software that works on my Mac ( it 's all Windows only ) .
The store person offered to make a backup there , but after doing so he said that it only backed up my contacts , not my apps or settings ( IMO the important parts ) .
I walked out hoping that the SD solution will be better , but at best , I 'm locked out of my wireless Internet service for 3-5 days .
It 's hard to imagine how Rogers could have made this process worse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
The user-applied fix isn't available for Mac or Windows 7 users.
Those users are required to call into the Rogers tech support line to get the fix.
I did that, and had to wait on hold for over 30 minutes while the phone support waded through the (expected) deluge of calls.
When I got through, I was told that I could either:

Go to a Rogers store to get the fixHave a micro-SD card shipped to me (3-5 biz days wait) that contained a fix.
(I don't know why they couldn't offer the fix for download).
I stopped in the Rogers store to get the fix.
I waited for about 20 minutes while the customer support people (calling them "techs" wouldn't be accurate) installed the fix software on their in-store computers.
Then I was told that the fix would wipe my phone.
Did I have a backup?
I said no; I haven't been able to find any evidence of Rogers-capable phone-sync software that works on my Mac (it's all Windows only).
The store person offered to make a backup there, but after doing so he said that it only backed up my contacts, not my apps or settings (IMO the important parts).
I walked out hoping that the SD solution will be better, but at best, I'm locked out of my wireless Internet service for 3-5 days.
It's hard to imagine how Rogers could have made this process worse.
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913770</id>
	<title>open doesn't mean do what ever you want</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264529040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>i think people are misunderstanding what open really means in the case of a mobile phone platform.

the software on it may be open but you have to connect it to a controlled infrastructure where the controller can make you do what ever they want...</htmltext>
<tokenext>i think people are misunderstanding what open really means in the case of a mobile phone platform .
the software on it may be open but you have to connect it to a controlled infrastructure where the controller can make you do what ever they want.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i think people are misunderstanding what open really means in the case of a mobile phone platform.
the software on it may be open but you have to connect it to a controlled infrastructure where the controller can make you do what ever they want...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30914498</id>
	<title>In all seriousness...</title>
	<author>TangoMargarine</author>
	<datestamp>1264625520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>what gives Rogers the right to force people who are PAYING for their phones to require them to update.
</p></div><p>Probably a clause in the contract.* Sounds like a perfect situation to be covered under "...or any other changes to this policy as we deem necessary."</p><p>*(which I have of course not read)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>what gives Rogers the right to force people who are PAYING for their phones to require them to update .
Probably a clause in the contract .
* Sounds like a perfect situation to be covered under " ...or any other changes to this policy as we deem necessary .
" * ( which I have of course not read )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>what gives Rogers the right to force people who are PAYING for their phones to require them to update.
Probably a clause in the contract.
* Sounds like a perfect situation to be covered under "...or any other changes to this policy as we deem necessary.
"*(which I have of course not read)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913688</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913524</id>
	<title>Rogers is terrible</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264526580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I run CyanogenMod on my Rogers HTC Dream, and it has apparently had the fix for this issue for 5+ months. Yet I am still cut off from data access, they keep insisting I install their update.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I run CyanogenMod on my Rogers HTC Dream , and it has apparently had the fix for this issue for 5 + months .
Yet I am still cut off from data access , they keep insisting I install their update .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I run CyanogenMod on my Rogers HTC Dream, and it has apparently had the fix for this issue for 5+ months.
Yet I am still cut off from data access, they keep insisting I install their update.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913898</id>
	<title>Re:Rogers is terrible</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264530480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>call support and ask for a 'network refresh', they'll forward you to a higher level technician that can do that, reboot your phone shortly afterwards &amp; you're good</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>call support and ask for a 'network refresh ' , they 'll forward you to a higher level technician that can do that , reboot your phone shortly afterwards &amp; you 're good</tokentext>
<sentencetext>call support and ask for a 'network refresh', they'll forward you to a higher level technician that can do that, reboot your phone shortly afterwards &amp; you're good</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913524</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913618</id>
	<title>Re:GSM Providers</title>
	<author>anethema</author>
	<datestamp>1264527300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Just to expand on what the AC said, most notably Wind Mobile is expanding in a few markets and all the newcomers are in the AWS band, which is the same as T-Mobile in the USA.<br><br>While Wind does not yet offer any of their own Android phones, there have been reports of people with Nexus One's etc working fine on their network.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just to expand on what the AC said , most notably Wind Mobile is expanding in a few markets and all the newcomers are in the AWS band , which is the same as T-Mobile in the USA.While Wind does not yet offer any of their own Android phones , there have been reports of people with Nexus One 's etc working fine on their network .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just to expand on what the AC said, most notably Wind Mobile is expanding in a few markets and all the newcomers are in the AWS band, which is the same as T-Mobile in the USA.While Wind does not yet offer any of their own Android phones, there have been reports of people with Nexus One's etc working fine on their network.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913806</id>
	<title>Re:GSM is not HSPDA, Telus does not have GSM.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264529400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think you mean HSPA,  which has HS-DPA and HS-UPA components,  but they are all grouped as HSPA</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you mean HSPA , which has HS-DPA and HS-UPA components , but they are all grouped as HSPA</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you mean HSPA,  which has HS-DPA and HS-UPA components,  but they are all grouped as HSPA</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913714</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30917646</id>
	<title>Re:On top of all that...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264609140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't buy an Android if you are technologically inept? Install a virtual machine on your Mac and run XP. Or wine, or boot camp. Lots of much faster solutions than waiting 3-5 days. You chose to pair an incompatible platform together, now problem solve your way out of it instead of blaming the people who sold it to you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't buy an Android if you are technologically inept ?
Install a virtual machine on your Mac and run XP .
Or wine , or boot camp .
Lots of much faster solutions than waiting 3-5 days .
You chose to pair an incompatible platform together , now problem solve your way out of it instead of blaming the people who sold it to you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't buy an Android if you are technologically inept?
Install a virtual machine on your Mac and run XP.
Or wine, or boot camp.
Lots of much faster solutions than waiting 3-5 days.
You chose to pair an incompatible platform together, now problem solve your way out of it instead of blaming the people who sold it to you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913734</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30914576</id>
	<title>Rogers Really Sucks - Try Using Twitpic....</title>
	<author>Vegan Cyclist</author>
	<datestamp>1264583880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Rogers is pathetic for cell service and what they've done to cripple cell phones.

</p><p>Anyone on Rogers ever try to use Twitpic? The idiots have devised a system where texting a photo involves Rogers uploading it to their server, and sending out an email with a link to the page it's on...then if you want to download the image, it's several clicks, and then you download a freaking ZIP file if memory serves..... I was actually chatting with someone at Twitpic to try and make it work with Rogers (they *do* display a shrunk version of the pic that can be extracted with some selective code), and i believe he gave up it was so ill conceived.

</p><p>If you call Rogers to complain, they just go 'huh?' As though Twitter and Twitpic are some obscure, little-used web fad....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Rogers is pathetic for cell service and what they 've done to cripple cell phones .
Anyone on Rogers ever try to use Twitpic ?
The idiots have devised a system where texting a photo involves Rogers uploading it to their server , and sending out an email with a link to the page it 's on...then if you want to download the image , it 's several clicks , and then you download a freaking ZIP file if memory serves..... I was actually chatting with someone at Twitpic to try and make it work with Rogers ( they * do * display a shrunk version of the pic that can be extracted with some selective code ) , and i believe he gave up it was so ill conceived .
If you call Rogers to complain , they just go 'huh ?
' As though Twitter and Twitpic are some obscure , little-used web fad... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Rogers is pathetic for cell service and what they've done to cripple cell phones.
Anyone on Rogers ever try to use Twitpic?
The idiots have devised a system where texting a photo involves Rogers uploading it to their server, and sending out an email with a link to the page it's on...then if you want to download the image, it's several clicks, and then you download a freaking ZIP file if memory serves..... I was actually chatting with someone at Twitpic to try and make it work with Rogers (they *do* display a shrunk version of the pic that can be extracted with some selective code), and i believe he gave up it was so ill conceived.
If you call Rogers to complain, they just go 'huh?
' As though Twitter and Twitpic are some obscure, little-used web fad....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913888</id>
	<title>Re:GSM Providers</title>
	<author>Adambomb</author>
	<datestamp>1264530360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Note: The networks you're mentioning from Telus and Bell are UMTS only, with no 2G GSM support at all. Won't matter in 5-10 years, but just a heads up.</p><p>The problem people don't really seem to get about mobile pricing and "competition" in Canada is that it really is a system with only two sides Rogers and Telus/Bell. Telus and Bell themselves barely compete as their pricing structures are nearly identical beyond minor differences, which makes sense given their <a href="http://www.bce.ca/en/news/releases/bm/2001/10/17/6459.html" title="www.bce.ca">Network Sharing Agreements</a> [www.bce.ca].</p><p>Fido is effectively the WestJet of our carriers, cherry picking the majority of their clients within <a href="http://www.fido.ca/web/page/portal/Fido/CoverageSupport?forwardTo=linkToCanada" title="www.fido.ca">high population density areas</a> [www.fido.ca], which did make them a competitor within the major cities and a large portion of the market until about 2004 <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fido\_Solutions" title="wikipedia.org">when they became wholly owned</a> [wikipedia.org] by Rogers.</p><p>Some people may mentioned the MVNO's Koodo and SOLO Mobile not realizing that Koodo is effectively a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koodo\_Mobile" title="wikipedia.org">slightly lower margin Telus</a> [wikipedia.org], and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solo\_Mobile" title="wikipedia.org">Solo Mobile is Bell</a> [wikipedia.org] (down to the same exact 'customer service' tools, except I believe Solo CSSR's are primarily through Canadian based subcontractors only).</p><p>Given these details, you see we have effectively two sides only. Two sides which somehow magically conviced everyone in the country that it makes sense for them to have doubled the price (two-sided billing) of per usage SMS's from 15c to 30c a piece. Two sides that maintain suspiciously close pricing that tends to vary only by small amounts for specific cases. Two sides that maintain a consistent CHURN back and forth between the two sets of groups generating Long Term Contract Charges and a variety of fine print charges so that when One is considered the evil, users switch to the other (with similar THEY ARE THE WORST rants concerning the business model in either case, rogers OR bell). The only reason it works is that the worst things only happen to a low enough percentage for each carrier that after they ragequit and go to the other side, its unlikely for it to happen again to the same person (post 90 day billing errors that are considered valid so long as client wasnt able to ask the right question to a CSSR before the 90 days was up thanks to the Consumer Protection Act [HAH], defective merchandise that is considered not covered under warranty but still generated a contract with a valid LTCC charge if cancelled [*cough*AUDIOVOX*cough*], etc).</p><p>The long and short of it is Telco companies have us by the short hairs up here in Canada. Heres hoping WIND Mobile takes off, but given that they only launched in friggan December, i cant have an opinion quite yet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Note : The networks you 're mentioning from Telus and Bell are UMTS only , with no 2G GSM support at all .
Wo n't matter in 5-10 years , but just a heads up.The problem people do n't really seem to get about mobile pricing and " competition " in Canada is that it really is a system with only two sides Rogers and Telus/Bell .
Telus and Bell themselves barely compete as their pricing structures are nearly identical beyond minor differences , which makes sense given their Network Sharing Agreements [ www.bce.ca ] .Fido is effectively the WestJet of our carriers , cherry picking the majority of their clients within high population density areas [ www.fido.ca ] , which did make them a competitor within the major cities and a large portion of the market until about 2004 when they became wholly owned [ wikipedia.org ] by Rogers.Some people may mentioned the MVNO 's Koodo and SOLO Mobile not realizing that Koodo is effectively a slightly lower margin Telus [ wikipedia.org ] , and Solo Mobile is Bell [ wikipedia.org ] ( down to the same exact 'customer service ' tools , except I believe Solo CSSR 's are primarily through Canadian based subcontractors only ) .Given these details , you see we have effectively two sides only .
Two sides which somehow magically conviced everyone in the country that it makes sense for them to have doubled the price ( two-sided billing ) of per usage SMS 's from 15c to 30c a piece .
Two sides that maintain suspiciously close pricing that tends to vary only by small amounts for specific cases .
Two sides that maintain a consistent CHURN back and forth between the two sets of groups generating Long Term Contract Charges and a variety of fine print charges so that when One is considered the evil , users switch to the other ( with similar THEY ARE THE WORST rants concerning the business model in either case , rogers OR bell ) .
The only reason it works is that the worst things only happen to a low enough percentage for each carrier that after they ragequit and go to the other side , its unlikely for it to happen again to the same person ( post 90 day billing errors that are considered valid so long as client wasnt able to ask the right question to a CSSR before the 90 days was up thanks to the Consumer Protection Act [ HAH ] , defective merchandise that is considered not covered under warranty but still generated a contract with a valid LTCC charge if cancelled [ * cough * AUDIOVOX * cough * ] , etc ) .The long and short of it is Telco companies have us by the short hairs up here in Canada .
Heres hoping WIND Mobile takes off , but given that they only launched in friggan December , i cant have an opinion quite yet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Note: The networks you're mentioning from Telus and Bell are UMTS only, with no 2G GSM support at all.
Won't matter in 5-10 years, but just a heads up.The problem people don't really seem to get about mobile pricing and "competition" in Canada is that it really is a system with only two sides Rogers and Telus/Bell.
Telus and Bell themselves barely compete as their pricing structures are nearly identical beyond minor differences, which makes sense given their Network Sharing Agreements [www.bce.ca].Fido is effectively the WestJet of our carriers, cherry picking the majority of their clients within high population density areas [www.fido.ca], which did make them a competitor within the major cities and a large portion of the market until about 2004 when they became wholly owned [wikipedia.org] by Rogers.Some people may mentioned the MVNO's Koodo and SOLO Mobile not realizing that Koodo is effectively a slightly lower margin Telus [wikipedia.org], and Solo Mobile is Bell [wikipedia.org] (down to the same exact 'customer service' tools, except I believe Solo CSSR's are primarily through Canadian based subcontractors only).Given these details, you see we have effectively two sides only.
Two sides which somehow magically conviced everyone in the country that it makes sense for them to have doubled the price (two-sided billing) of per usage SMS's from 15c to 30c a piece.
Two sides that maintain suspiciously close pricing that tends to vary only by small amounts for specific cases.
Two sides that maintain a consistent CHURN back and forth between the two sets of groups generating Long Term Contract Charges and a variety of fine print charges so that when One is considered the evil, users switch to the other (with similar THEY ARE THE WORST rants concerning the business model in either case, rogers OR bell).
The only reason it works is that the worst things only happen to a low enough percentage for each carrier that after they ragequit and go to the other side, its unlikely for it to happen again to the same person (post 90 day billing errors that are considered valid so long as client wasnt able to ask the right question to a CSSR before the 90 days was up thanks to the Consumer Protection Act [HAH], defective merchandise that is considered not covered under warranty but still generated a contract with a valid LTCC charge if cancelled [*cough*AUDIOVOX*cough*], etc).The long and short of it is Telco companies have us by the short hairs up here in Canada.
Heres hoping WIND Mobile takes off, but given that they only launched in friggan December, i cant have an opinion quite yet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913850</id>
	<title>Re:Security Updates... now with push support!</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1264529760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The user does control when it gets updated.  They just lose other things and get annoyed to all hell and back until they upgrade.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The user does control when it gets updated .
They just lose other things and get annoyed to all hell and back until they upgrade .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The user does control when it gets updated.
They just lose other things and get annoyed to all hell and back until they upgrade.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913580</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30914166</id>
	<title>Re:open means closed for cellphones</title>
	<author>influenza</author>
	<datestamp>1264533720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Openmoko community is a breeding ground for mobile Linux distros and and the <a href="http://www.freesmartphone.org/index.php/Main\_Page" title="freesmartphone.org" rel="nofollow">FSO</a> [freesmartphone.org] middleware.  FSO and these distros, like <a href="http://shr-project.org/trac" title="shr-project.org" rel="nofollow">SHR</a> [shr-project.org], <a href="http://www.hackable1.org/" title="hackable1.org" rel="nofollow">Hackable:1</a> [hackable1.org], <a href="http://qtmoko.org/wiki/Main\_Page" title="qtmoko.org" rel="nofollow">QtMoko</a> [qtmoko.org] will eventually be ported to other devices.  That's one reason why Openmoko is still relevant.  The work being done on Freerunners now will eventually result in being able to replace the proprietary parts of the Pre or the n900 with all Free software, or potentially replace the OS on an Android phone with a Linux distro that runs a X.org server.</p><p>The people using and developing for the Openmoko phones are very familiar with its faults.  They use the phone and develop for it because the Freerunner is the most open handset available.  It's a labour of love, and there are a lot of folks in the community that are very committed to Free Software.</p><p>If nothing else, Openmoko gave a bunch of nerds a crack at creating their own mobile operating system.  It had the potential (and maybe still does through FSO and SHR) to enable the kind of built in the garage innovation that brought about companies like HP and Apple.  That's a bit of a long shot, but a lot of great work has come out of the Openmoko community and things are still moving along.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Openmoko community is a breeding ground for mobile Linux distros and and the FSO [ freesmartphone.org ] middleware .
FSO and these distros , like SHR [ shr-project.org ] , Hackable : 1 [ hackable1.org ] , QtMoko [ qtmoko.org ] will eventually be ported to other devices .
That 's one reason why Openmoko is still relevant .
The work being done on Freerunners now will eventually result in being able to replace the proprietary parts of the Pre or the n900 with all Free software , or potentially replace the OS on an Android phone with a Linux distro that runs a X.org server.The people using and developing for the Openmoko phones are very familiar with its faults .
They use the phone and develop for it because the Freerunner is the most open handset available .
It 's a labour of love , and there are a lot of folks in the community that are very committed to Free Software.If nothing else , Openmoko gave a bunch of nerds a crack at creating their own mobile operating system .
It had the potential ( and maybe still does through FSO and SHR ) to enable the kind of built in the garage innovation that brought about companies like HP and Apple .
That 's a bit of a long shot , but a lot of great work has come out of the Openmoko community and things are still moving along .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Openmoko community is a breeding ground for mobile Linux distros and and the FSO [freesmartphone.org] middleware.
FSO and these distros, like SHR [shr-project.org], Hackable:1 [hackable1.org], QtMoko [qtmoko.org] will eventually be ported to other devices.
That's one reason why Openmoko is still relevant.
The work being done on Freerunners now will eventually result in being able to replace the proprietary parts of the Pre or the n900 with all Free software, or potentially replace the OS on an Android phone with a Linux distro that runs a X.org server.The people using and developing for the Openmoko phones are very familiar with its faults.
They use the phone and develop for it because the Freerunner is the most open handset available.
It's a labour of love, and there are a lot of folks in the community that are very committed to Free Software.If nothing else, Openmoko gave a bunch of nerds a crack at creating their own mobile operating system.
It had the potential (and maybe still does through FSO and SHR) to enable the kind of built in the garage innovation that brought about companies like HP and Apple.
That's a bit of a long shot, but a lot of great work has come out of the Openmoko community and things are still moving along.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913842</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913580</id>
	<title>Security Updates... now with push support!</title>
	<author>LostCluster</author>
	<datestamp>1264526940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>On a closed system, the company behind the system should be able to push updates, especially when there's a security or safety risk involved.</p><p>But Google is claiming this is an "open" smartphone... and under this scheme it's usual that the user control when to upgrade.</p><p>What a contradictory situation this brings up...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>On a closed system , the company behind the system should be able to push updates , especially when there 's a security or safety risk involved.But Google is claiming this is an " open " smartphone... and under this scheme it 's usual that the user control when to upgrade.What a contradictory situation this brings up.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On a closed system, the company behind the system should be able to push updates, especially when there's a security or safety risk involved.But Google is claiming this is an "open" smartphone... and under this scheme it's usual that the user control when to upgrade.What a contradictory situation this brings up...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30913864</id>
	<title>but...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264530000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Apple is evil, and android is open!
<p>
Wait... what?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Apple is evil , and android is open !
Wait... what ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Apple is evil, and android is open!
Wait... what?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_2358237.30917458</id>
	<title>Re:Some phones are more open than Android</title>
	<author>GooberToo</author>
	<datestamp>1264608360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>By comparison, Palm not only has root available on all their WebOS phones,</p></div><p>That's what developer phones like the ADP1 and Nexus One are for. The ADP1/N1 comes with both root and the engineering boot loader which readily allows for installing alternate images. On the N1, such features is available on every device.</p><p>So what was your point again?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>By comparison , Palm not only has root available on all their WebOS phones,That 's what developer phones like the ADP1 and Nexus One are for .
The ADP1/N1 comes with both root and the engineering boot loader which readily allows for installing alternate images .
On the N1 , such features is available on every device.So what was your point again ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>By comparison, Palm not only has root available on all their WebOS phones,That's what developer phones like the ADP1 and Nexus One are for.
The ADP1/N1 comes with both root and the engineering boot loader which readily allows for installing alternate images.
On the N1, such features is available on every device.So what was your point again?
	</sentencetext>
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