<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_01_25_1854241</id>
	<title>SourceForge Clarifies Denial of Site Access</title>
	<author>ScuttleMonkey</author>
	<datestamp>1264446720000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>Recently there were some complaints from certain users outside the US stating that they were <a href="http://arabcrunch.com/2010/01/following-clintons-internet-freedom-speech-us-based-sourceforge-blocked-syria-sudan-iran-korea-cuba-is-open-source-still-really-open.html">no longer able to access SourceForge.net</a>.  SF.net (who shares a corporate overlord with Slashdot) has <a href="http://ow.ly/10fVL">outlined the reasons for these bans</a>, and until someone with sufficient power to alter US law or the lists governing who is allowed to access what data from where, there is unlikely to be a change in these bans.  It is worth noting that SF.net is not alone in these difficulties, as the same problems have been reported from other repositories, like Google Code.  <i>"As one of the first companies to promote the adoption and distribution of free and open source software, and one that still puts open source at the center of its corporate ideals, restrictions on the free flow of information rub us the wrong way. However, in addition to participating in the open source community, we also live in the real world, and are governed by the laws of the country in which we are located. Our need to follow those laws supersedes any wishes we might have to make our community as inclusive as possible. The possible penalties for violating these restrictions include fines and imprisonment. Other hosting companies based in the US have similar legal and technical restrictions in place."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Recently there were some complaints from certain users outside the US stating that they were no longer able to access SourceForge.net .
SF.net ( who shares a corporate overlord with Slashdot ) has outlined the reasons for these bans , and until someone with sufficient power to alter US law or the lists governing who is allowed to access what data from where , there is unlikely to be a change in these bans .
It is worth noting that SF.net is not alone in these difficulties , as the same problems have been reported from other repositories , like Google Code .
" As one of the first companies to promote the adoption and distribution of free and open source software , and one that still puts open source at the center of its corporate ideals , restrictions on the free flow of information rub us the wrong way .
However , in addition to participating in the open source community , we also live in the real world , and are governed by the laws of the country in which we are located .
Our need to follow those laws supersedes any wishes we might have to make our community as inclusive as possible .
The possible penalties for violating these restrictions include fines and imprisonment .
Other hosting companies based in the US have similar legal and technical restrictions in place .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Recently there were some complaints from certain users outside the US stating that they were no longer able to access SourceForge.net.
SF.net (who shares a corporate overlord with Slashdot) has outlined the reasons for these bans, and until someone with sufficient power to alter US law or the lists governing who is allowed to access what data from where, there is unlikely to be a change in these bans.
It is worth noting that SF.net is not alone in these difficulties, as the same problems have been reported from other repositories, like Google Code.
"As one of the first companies to promote the adoption and distribution of free and open source software, and one that still puts open source at the center of its corporate ideals, restrictions on the free flow of information rub us the wrong way.
However, in addition to participating in the open source community, we also live in the real world, and are governed by the laws of the country in which we are located.
Our need to follow those laws supersedes any wishes we might have to make our community as inclusive as possible.
The possible penalties for violating these restrictions include fines and imprisonment.
Other hosting companies based in the US have similar legal and technical restrictions in place.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894338</id>
	<title>You don't fight Internet censorship...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264451460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...with more Internet censorship.  This is ridiculous.  Export laws are what they are, but if we're trying to help open up the Internet in these countries, banning them from accessing knowledge hosted on our servers isn't helping one bit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...with more Internet censorship .
This is ridiculous .
Export laws are what they are , but if we 're trying to help open up the Internet in these countries , banning them from accessing knowledge hosted on our servers is n't helping one bit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...with more Internet censorship.
This is ridiculous.
Export laws are what they are, but if we're trying to help open up the Internet in these countries, banning them from accessing knowledge hosted on our servers isn't helping one bit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30896750</id>
	<title>Now I understand...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264417680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>...why US propaganda works so smoothly. The people from "bad" countries are prohibited from commenting on sites like slashdot, so they won't have the chance to refute the rhetoric and claims made by the alarmist paranoid PSYOPS shit.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...why US propaganda works so smoothly .
The people from " bad " countries are prohibited from commenting on sites like slashdot , so they wo n't have the chance to refute the rhetoric and claims made by the alarmist paranoid PSYOPS shit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...why US propaganda works so smoothly.
The people from "bad" countries are prohibited from commenting on sites like slashdot, so they won't have the chance to refute the rhetoric and claims made by the alarmist paranoid PSYOPS shit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895568</id>
	<title>Re:Sad but real</title>
	<author>butlerdi</author>
	<datestamp>1264413300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Even worse was Dr. Butler (no relation) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas\_C.\_Butler" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas\_C.\_Butler</a> [wikipedia.org].
Amerika is now a rogue state and should be treated as such.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Even worse was Dr. Butler ( no relation ) http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas \ _C. \ _Butler [ wikipedia.org ] .
Amerika is now a rogue state and should be treated as such .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even worse was Dr. Butler (no relation) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas\_C.\_Butler [wikipedia.org].
Amerika is now a rogue state and should be treated as such.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30898638</id>
	<title>Re:Violation to freedoms of Free Software</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264426980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As long as they've got a US presence, they're stuck with ITAR- even if the servers are abroad.</p><p>As for the erstwhile Syrian dev not getting it- you're not getting it because of the nature of the law in question covers this sort of action, actually.</p><p>Distribution of ANY kind, of anything covered under the laws in question, constitutes export/re-export of the item(s), regardless of their ownership, origin, etc.<br>It's not that they consider them American products- the US Gov't considers them that because US citizens hosted the content in question.  Seriously.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As long as they 've got a US presence , they 're stuck with ITAR- even if the servers are abroad.As for the erstwhile Syrian dev not getting it- you 're not getting it because of the nature of the law in question covers this sort of action , actually.Distribution of ANY kind , of anything covered under the laws in question , constitutes export/re-export of the item ( s ) , regardless of their ownership , origin , etc.It 's not that they consider them American products- the US Gov't considers them that because US citizens hosted the content in question .
Seriously .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As long as they've got a US presence, they're stuck with ITAR- even if the servers are abroad.As for the erstwhile Syrian dev not getting it- you're not getting it because of the nature of the law in question covers this sort of action, actually.Distribution of ANY kind, of anything covered under the laws in question, constitutes export/re-export of the item(s), regardless of their ownership, origin, etc.It's not that they consider them American products- the US Gov't considers them that because US citizens hosted the content in question.
Seriously.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894496</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895218</id>
	<title>Re:Violation to freedoms of Free Software</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264411920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I guess, at least according to the GPL, they must provide the source to the programs they distribute to anyone who asks for it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I guess , at least according to the GPL , they must provide the source to the programs they distribute to anyone who asks for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I guess, at least according to the GPL, they must provide the source to the programs they distribute to anyone who asks for it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894344</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895340</id>
	<title>Why not move em</title>
	<author>butlerdi</author>
	<datestamp>1264412460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Vanuatu or some other place may be a good idea. Get everything out of the US and Europe.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Vanuatu or some other place may be a good idea .
Get everything out of the US and Europe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Vanuatu or some other place may be a good idea.
Get everything out of the US and Europe.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895634</id>
	<title>Re:Political Asylum</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264413540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Free? Haha.</p><p>Here in Switzerland, I am e.g. not allowed to export cryptographic software. Especially if it is in a "easily adaptable" form - like, hmm, open source. </p><p>Maybe we don't have such extensive intelligence agencies, but the laws suck here, too. </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Free ?
Haha.Here in Switzerland , I am e.g .
not allowed to export cryptographic software .
Especially if it is in a " easily adaptable " form - like , hmm , open source .
Maybe we do n't have such extensive intelligence agencies , but the laws suck here , too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Free?
Haha.Here in Switzerland, I am e.g.
not allowed to export cryptographic software.
Especially if it is in a "easily adaptable" form - like, hmm, open source.
Maybe we don't have such extensive intelligence agencies, but the laws suck here, too. </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894372</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894384</id>
	<title>Anybody here remember the history of PGP?</title>
	<author>mmell</author>
	<datestamp>1264451700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>DeCSS?<p>
Early opensource implementations of RSA encryption?</p><p>
If efforts to stop these failed (and there <i>were</i> efforts, and they <i>did</i> fail), I suspect this will also fail.</p><p>
Nothing to see here folks.  Move along.  Move along.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>DeCSS ?
Early opensource implementations of RSA encryption ?
If efforts to stop these failed ( and there were efforts , and they did fail ) , I suspect this will also fail .
Nothing to see here folks .
Move along .
Move along .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>DeCSS?
Early opensource implementations of RSA encryption?
If efforts to stop these failed (and there were efforts, and they did fail), I suspect this will also fail.
Nothing to see here folks.
Move along.
Move along.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895066</id>
	<title>slashdot also is a host</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264411200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So slashdot  will stop sending webpages  to those country because they host the messages and they may contain technology information by that logic.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So slashdot will stop sending webpages to those country because they host the messages and they may contain technology information by that logic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So slashdot  will stop sending webpages  to those country because they host the messages and they may contain technology information by that logic.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894360</id>
	<title>It's time to stop playing at national security</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264451580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>The US doesn't want to face up to the fact that the only way to keep very serious, proprietary technology out of the hands of hostile states is to severely punish those in the US who facilitate the transfer. So instead, it adopts security theater here much like it pretends that it is fighting child exploitation by posting cops all over chat rooms to entrap people who have a passive interest in jailbait at best instead of actually hunting for real, serious child molesters. This allows the national security hawks to believe that we're "being tough," when in fact if we were tough, we wouldn't give a shit about SF.net, but would instead be executing <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,330320,00.html" title="foxnews.com">men like this</a> [foxnews.com] (just read it before attacking me, it was the first Google search result) without a second thought.
<br> <br>
This won't do **anything** except deter some students in these countries who don't know how to find a foreign proxy. It certainly won't stop foreign intelligence officers who try to get actual weapon systems and other serious munitions.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The US does n't want to face up to the fact that the only way to keep very serious , proprietary technology out of the hands of hostile states is to severely punish those in the US who facilitate the transfer .
So instead , it adopts security theater here much like it pretends that it is fighting child exploitation by posting cops all over chat rooms to entrap people who have a passive interest in jailbait at best instead of actually hunting for real , serious child molesters .
This allows the national security hawks to believe that we 're " being tough , " when in fact if we were tough , we would n't give a shit about SF.net , but would instead be executing men like this [ foxnews.com ] ( just read it before attacking me , it was the first Google search result ) without a second thought .
This wo n't do * * anything * * except deter some students in these countries who do n't know how to find a foreign proxy .
It certainly wo n't stop foreign intelligence officers who try to get actual weapon systems and other serious munitions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The US doesn't want to face up to the fact that the only way to keep very serious, proprietary technology out of the hands of hostile states is to severely punish those in the US who facilitate the transfer.
So instead, it adopts security theater here much like it pretends that it is fighting child exploitation by posting cops all over chat rooms to entrap people who have a passive interest in jailbait at best instead of actually hunting for real, serious child molesters.
This allows the national security hawks to believe that we're "being tough," when in fact if we were tough, we wouldn't give a shit about SF.net, but would instead be executing men like this [foxnews.com] (just read it before attacking me, it was the first Google search result) without a second thought.
This won't do **anything** except deter some students in these countries who don't know how to find a foreign proxy.
It certainly won't stop foreign intelligence officers who try to get actual weapon systems and other serious munitions.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30900290</id>
	<title>Re:How typical..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264441260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I kind of suspect that hosting it elsewhere doesn't help if the code was ever hosted in the US, as it'd be considered re-exporting unless you can find an older copy that was hosted elsewhere.</p><p>Note that technically the legislation only applies if the project contains something that can be considered dual-use, usually meaning crypto...unfortunately now it's sufficiently common that it's probably impossible for sourceforge to determine which projects do and don't (hence the policy change), and the existence of the export regulations for these things is ridiculous as they are pretty much public knowledge worldwide.</p><p>Considering how open source works, I find it hard to believe that anyone could be trying to enforce the "re-exporting" regulation down the line (or if they are, they're stupid and wasting a lot of effort on something that will have no useful effect), provided it's done by the projects themselves.</p><p>Moving SF.net <em>en masse</em>...I'm guessing someone might notice, even though it's still equally stupid to apply export restrictions to open source projects that have been available worldwide for years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I kind of suspect that hosting it elsewhere does n't help if the code was ever hosted in the US , as it 'd be considered re-exporting unless you can find an older copy that was hosted elsewhere.Note that technically the legislation only applies if the project contains something that can be considered dual-use , usually meaning crypto...unfortunately now it 's sufficiently common that it 's probably impossible for sourceforge to determine which projects do and do n't ( hence the policy change ) , and the existence of the export regulations for these things is ridiculous as they are pretty much public knowledge worldwide.Considering how open source works , I find it hard to believe that anyone could be trying to enforce the " re-exporting " regulation down the line ( or if they are , they 're stupid and wasting a lot of effort on something that will have no useful effect ) , provided it 's done by the projects themselves.Moving SF.net en masse...I 'm guessing someone might notice , even though it 's still equally stupid to apply export restrictions to open source projects that have been available worldwide for years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I kind of suspect that hosting it elsewhere doesn't help if the code was ever hosted in the US, as it'd be considered re-exporting unless you can find an older copy that was hosted elsewhere.Note that technically the legislation only applies if the project contains something that can be considered dual-use, usually meaning crypto...unfortunately now it's sufficiently common that it's probably impossible for sourceforge to determine which projects do and don't (hence the policy change), and the existence of the export regulations for these things is ridiculous as they are pretty much public knowledge worldwide.Considering how open source works, I find it hard to believe that anyone could be trying to enforce the "re-exporting" regulation down the line (or if they are, they're stupid and wasting a lot of effort on something that will have no useful effect), provided it's done by the projects themselves.Moving SF.net en masse...I'm guessing someone might notice, even though it's still equally stupid to apply export restrictions to open source projects that have been available worldwide for years.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895234</id>
	<title>Re:Violation to freedoms of Free Software</title>
	<author>fm6</author>
	<datestamp>1264411980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's highly appropriate that we should hear from somebody on the ground in Syria. One of the points of this law is to gain leverage against the Syrian government, which Washington considers unfriendly. It's a stupid, shortsighted strategy, that doesn't really accomplish anything, except hurt innocent people.</p><p>On the other hand, it's a little inconsistent to call SourceForge "cowardly" for not standing up the government. (Note that the wording of any OS agreement they adhere to is irrelevant &mdash; no agreement to act illegally is valid.)  Would you dare to flout Syrian law the same way? Not to judge your system of government, but you have to acknowledge the consequences would be pretty severe. U.S. law is less so, but they can still put SourceForge out of business and maybe put some of its people in jail.</p><p>Sometimes you do have to go to jail for what you believe in. But this isn't one of them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's highly appropriate that we should hear from somebody on the ground in Syria .
One of the points of this law is to gain leverage against the Syrian government , which Washington considers unfriendly .
It 's a stupid , shortsighted strategy , that does n't really accomplish anything , except hurt innocent people.On the other hand , it 's a little inconsistent to call SourceForge " cowardly " for not standing up the government .
( Note that the wording of any OS agreement they adhere to is irrelevant    no agreement to act illegally is valid .
) Would you dare to flout Syrian law the same way ?
Not to judge your system of government , but you have to acknowledge the consequences would be pretty severe .
U.S. law is less so , but they can still put SourceForge out of business and maybe put some of its people in jail.Sometimes you do have to go to jail for what you believe in .
But this is n't one of them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's highly appropriate that we should hear from somebody on the ground in Syria.
One of the points of this law is to gain leverage against the Syrian government, which Washington considers unfriendly.
It's a stupid, shortsighted strategy, that doesn't really accomplish anything, except hurt innocent people.On the other hand, it's a little inconsistent to call SourceForge "cowardly" for not standing up the government.
(Note that the wording of any OS agreement they adhere to is irrelevant — no agreement to act illegally is valid.
)  Would you dare to flout Syrian law the same way?
Not to judge your system of government, but you have to acknowledge the consequences would be pretty severe.
U.S. law is less so, but they can still put SourceForge out of business and maybe put some of its people in jail.Sometimes you do have to go to jail for what you believe in.
But this isn't one of them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894344</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894724</id>
	<title>Re:Violation to freedoms of Free Software</title>
	<author>e2d2</author>
	<datestamp>1264453140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They can't access their work? There are no copies of this code? That's a bad joke. Like you said, they only host the projects so no real harm done. Host elsewhere. Problem solved. Team Forge FTW.</p><p>Also, they never said they would violate a country law to enforce an open source ideal. It doesn't work that way. Copyrights, patents, trademarks - these things can be disputed in civil court. You violate federal laws you go to prison. There is no choice to be made at all.<br>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They ca n't access their work ?
There are no copies of this code ?
That 's a bad joke .
Like you said , they only host the projects so no real harm done .
Host elsewhere .
Problem solved .
Team Forge FTW.Also , they never said they would violate a country law to enforce an open source ideal .
It does n't work that way .
Copyrights , patents , trademarks - these things can be disputed in civil court .
You violate federal laws you go to prison .
There is no choice to be made at all .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>They can't access their work?
There are no copies of this code?
That's a bad joke.
Like you said, they only host the projects so no real harm done.
Host elsewhere.
Problem solved.
Team Forge FTW.Also, they never said they would violate a country law to enforce an open source ideal.
It doesn't work that way.
Copyrights, patents, trademarks - these things can be disputed in civil court.
You violate federal laws you go to prison.
There is no choice to be made at all.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894344</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894228</id>
	<title>Re:Failure of thought</title>
	<author>achbed</author>
	<datestamp>1264451040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because they are based in the US, and they are owned by a company that is based in the US.  US export laws apply to both the parent company as well as the child, and sanctions for violating the export laws are severe.  Relocating to another country is a possibility, but they would have to start over.  The company taking assets (or assets under corporate supervision) to another country would also fall under the same law.  So, there's the chicken and the egg problem.  Also, most of the countries on the US list are also on similar lists in the rest of the world due to treaties, etc.  I'm sure there are some countries out there that would be happy to have you host there and export without limitation (and possibly break copyright laws too).  But as the Pirate Bay is finding, those places are fewer and fewer these days.</p><p>Oh, and if you're planning on staying in the US and not moving to the country you host in, you're still under the US export laws, as your location is in their jurisdiction.  Even if you can find a lawyer to make the argument, plan on spending a ton of money on the defense.  And if you have that much money to start with, you wouldn't be reading this<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because they are based in the US , and they are owned by a company that is based in the US .
US export laws apply to both the parent company as well as the child , and sanctions for violating the export laws are severe .
Relocating to another country is a possibility , but they would have to start over .
The company taking assets ( or assets under corporate supervision ) to another country would also fall under the same law .
So , there 's the chicken and the egg problem .
Also , most of the countries on the US list are also on similar lists in the rest of the world due to treaties , etc .
I 'm sure there are some countries out there that would be happy to have you host there and export without limitation ( and possibly break copyright laws too ) .
But as the Pirate Bay is finding , those places are fewer and fewer these days.Oh , and if you 're planning on staying in the US and not moving to the country you host in , you 're still under the US export laws , as your location is in their jurisdiction .
Even if you can find a lawyer to make the argument , plan on spending a ton of money on the defense .
And if you have that much money to start with , you would n't be reading this : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because they are based in the US, and they are owned by a company that is based in the US.
US export laws apply to both the parent company as well as the child, and sanctions for violating the export laws are severe.
Relocating to another country is a possibility, but they would have to start over.
The company taking assets (or assets under corporate supervision) to another country would also fall under the same law.
So, there's the chicken and the egg problem.
Also, most of the countries on the US list are also on similar lists in the rest of the world due to treaties, etc.
I'm sure there are some countries out there that would be happy to have you host there and export without limitation (and possibly break copyright laws too).
But as the Pirate Bay is finding, those places are fewer and fewer these days.Oh, and if you're planning on staying in the US and not moving to the country you host in, you're still under the US export laws, as your location is in their jurisdiction.
Even if you can find a lawyer to make the argument, plan on spending a ton of money on the defense.
And if you have that much money to start with, you wouldn't be reading this :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894064</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894168</id>
	<title>Re:Failure of thought</title>
	<author>qoncept</author>
	<datestamp>1264450860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Dollars and cents. It's easy to sit back and say SF should stand up for their ideals, but the cost to move their operations along with the risk probably (er, apparently) aren't worth it.  It's not a great idea to use a multi million dollar asset as a pawn to reinforce your principles. Especially when it's publicly traded.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Dollars and cents .
It 's easy to sit back and say SF should stand up for their ideals , but the cost to move their operations along with the risk probably ( er , apparently ) are n't worth it .
It 's not a great idea to use a multi million dollar asset as a pawn to reinforce your principles .
Especially when it 's publicly traded .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dollars and cents.
It's easy to sit back and say SF should stand up for their ideals, but the cost to move their operations along with the risk probably (er, apparently) aren't worth it.
It's not a great idea to use a multi million dollar asset as a pawn to reinforce your principles.
Especially when it's publicly traded.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894064</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30896118</id>
	<title>Use Git and Github!</title>
	<author>janwedekind</author>
	<datestamp>1264415400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>US censorship is yet another reason to use distributed version control systems! If the US or your own country blocks access, just push your changes some place else.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>US censorship is yet another reason to use distributed version control systems !
If the US or your own country blocks access , just push your changes some place else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>US censorship is yet another reason to use distributed version control systems!
If the US or your own country blocks access, just push your changes some place else.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894344</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30901448</id>
	<title>Re:Sad but real</title>
	<author>Vitriol+Angst</author>
	<datestamp>1264497720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Meanwhile,...<br>As the FBI closes in on the Professor, and our government chides us that "lose lips sink ships"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p><p>GM is setting up weapons production plants and auto manufacturing in China. Also on the menu is enhanced Nuclear Weapons technology.</p><p>Maybe one day, they will be arresting some poor schmuck at GM for mentioning important state secrets to a visiting American student.</p><p>That's why we have to spend so much on the defense of our nation -- so that we can deter dangerous rivals like,..<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...  Iran -- a least that's what spokesmodels at GM's News Stations say when not telling us about the problems with entitlement programs and the huge expenses involved in Health Care.</p><p>The good news is that nobody is ever going to invade America -- they will just set up Toll Roads and we will never know where that little coin ends up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Meanwhile,...As the FBI closes in on the Professor , and our government chides us that " lose lips sink ships " ...GM is setting up weapons production plants and auto manufacturing in China .
Also on the menu is enhanced Nuclear Weapons technology.Maybe one day , they will be arresting some poor schmuck at GM for mentioning important state secrets to a visiting American student.That 's why we have to spend so much on the defense of our nation -- so that we can deter dangerous rivals like,.. ... Iran -- a least that 's what spokesmodels at GM 's News Stations say when not telling us about the problems with entitlement programs and the huge expenses involved in Health Care.The good news is that nobody is ever going to invade America -- they will just set up Toll Roads and we will never know where that little coin ends up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Meanwhile,...As the FBI closes in on the Professor, and our government chides us that "lose lips sink ships" ...GM is setting up weapons production plants and auto manufacturing in China.
Also on the menu is enhanced Nuclear Weapons technology.Maybe one day, they will be arresting some poor schmuck at GM for mentioning important state secrets to a visiting American student.That's why we have to spend so much on the defense of our nation -- so that we can deter dangerous rivals like,.. ...  Iran -- a least that's what spokesmodels at GM's News Stations say when not telling us about the problems with entitlement programs and the huge expenses involved in Health Care.The good news is that nobody is ever going to invade America -- they will just set up Toll Roads and we will never know where that little coin ends up.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895630</id>
	<title>Re:Violation to freedoms of Free Software</title>
	<author>neo00</author>
	<datestamp>1264413540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>These restrictions were initiated on Syria in 2005. I don't know about the other countries, but I'm pretty sure it all started during the Bush administration. So they're not really that old. But anyway, it's time they changed. The censorship Syrians are getting from the US side probably outweighs the Syrian censorship. Think of it, you can't download a lot of free software, no google apps, no sun JRE, no antiviruses, nothing!</htmltext>
<tokenext>These restrictions were initiated on Syria in 2005 .
I do n't know about the other countries , but I 'm pretty sure it all started during the Bush administration .
So they 're not really that old .
But anyway , it 's time they changed .
The censorship Syrians are getting from the US side probably outweighs the Syrian censorship .
Think of it , you ca n't download a lot of free software , no google apps , no sun JRE , no antiviruses , nothing !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>These restrictions were initiated on Syria in 2005.
I don't know about the other countries, but I'm pretty sure it all started during the Bush administration.
So they're not really that old.
But anyway, it's time they changed.
The censorship Syrians are getting from the US side probably outweighs the Syrian censorship.
Think of it, you can't download a lot of free software, no google apps, no sun JRE, no antiviruses, nothing!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894344</id>
	<title>Violation to freedoms of Free Software</title>
	<author>neo00</author>
	<datestamp>1264451520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>As a Syrian developer who contributed so several open source project, I call this action unnecessary and outrageous.
Sorry, I can&rsquo;t understand this decision which was taken silently and cowardly by sf.net . I understand that the US law prohibits US companies from exporting their products to the &ldquo;axis of evil&rdquo; countries. But what I don&rsquo;t understand is how sf.net considers the projects they're hosting as US products? It doesn&rsquo;t make any sense.
SF.net DID NOT create these projects. It just HOSTS them. Most of these projects are got contributions from people around the world including people from these countries. Suddenly they can&rsquo;t access their own work, because sf.net considers them American products! That&rsquo;s stupid!<br>
Furthermore, it&rsquo;s a direct violation of the freedoms of Free Software and section 5 of opensource definition:<blockquote><div><p>5. No Discrimination Against Persons or Groups&rdquo; <br>
The license must not discriminate against any person or group of persons. <br>
Rationale: In order to get the maximum benefit from the process, the maximum diversity of persons and groups should be equally eligible to contribute to open sources. Therefore <b>we forbid any open-source license from locking anybody out of the process.</b></p></div> </blockquote><p>
I hope sf.net reconsider their decision. And at least to stand positively to defend the basic principles of FLOSS.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a Syrian developer who contributed so several open source project , I call this action unnecessary and outrageous .
Sorry , I can    t understand this decision which was taken silently and cowardly by sf.net .
I understand that the US law prohibits US companies from exporting their products to the    axis of evil    countries .
But what I don    t understand is how sf.net considers the projects they 're hosting as US products ?
It doesn    t make any sense .
SF.net DID NOT create these projects .
It just HOSTS them .
Most of these projects are got contributions from people around the world including people from these countries .
Suddenly they can    t access their own work , because sf.net considers them American products !
That    s stupid !
Furthermore , it    s a direct violation of the freedoms of Free Software and section 5 of opensource definition : 5 .
No Discrimination Against Persons or Groups    The license must not discriminate against any person or group of persons .
Rationale : In order to get the maximum benefit from the process , the maximum diversity of persons and groups should be equally eligible to contribute to open sources .
Therefore we forbid any open-source license from locking anybody out of the process .
I hope sf.net reconsider their decision .
And at least to stand positively to defend the basic principles of FLOSS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a Syrian developer who contributed so several open source project, I call this action unnecessary and outrageous.
Sorry, I can’t understand this decision which was taken silently and cowardly by sf.net .
I understand that the US law prohibits US companies from exporting their products to the “axis of evil” countries.
But what I don’t understand is how sf.net considers the projects they're hosting as US products?
It doesn’t make any sense.
SF.net DID NOT create these projects.
It just HOSTS them.
Most of these projects are got contributions from people around the world including people from these countries.
Suddenly they can’t access their own work, because sf.net considers them American products!
That’s stupid!
Furthermore, it’s a direct violation of the freedoms of Free Software and section 5 of opensource definition:5.
No Discrimination Against Persons or Groups” 
The license must not discriminate against any person or group of persons.
Rationale: In order to get the maximum benefit from the process, the maximum diversity of persons and groups should be equally eligible to contribute to open sources.
Therefore we forbid any open-source license from locking anybody out of the process.
I hope sf.net reconsider their decision.
And at least to stand positively to defend the basic principles of FLOSS.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895202</id>
	<title>Re:Political Asylum</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264411800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Informative?  Five minutes ago this was modded funny, and that seemed more accurate.  I assumed the OP was being sarcastic.  I'm not positive, though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Informative ?
Five minutes ago this was modded funny , and that seemed more accurate .
I assumed the OP was being sarcastic .
I 'm not positive , though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Informative?
Five minutes ago this was modded funny, and that seemed more accurate.
I assumed the OP was being sarcastic.
I'm not positive, though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894372</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894616</id>
	<title>Re:Violation to freedoms of Free Software</title>
	<author>brainboyz</author>
	<datestamp>1264452720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>By allowing you to access their hosting, they are exporting their service to your country. FLOSS wishes or not, section 5 of the FoFS doesn't supersede US Law for those in the US.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>By allowing you to access their hosting , they are exporting their service to your country .
FLOSS wishes or not , section 5 of the FoFS does n't supersede US Law for those in the US .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>By allowing you to access their hosting, they are exporting their service to your country.
FLOSS wishes or not, section 5 of the FoFS doesn't supersede US Law for those in the US.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894344</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30896906</id>
	<title>Re:How typical..</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1264418220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Pff, a clone of their service is set up in a week. And the costs... to host a project, you&rsquo;d have to pay, what, a couple of cents?<br>It&rsquo;s really silly. Ask the project owners for generated traffic. It&rsquo;s so low, everybody can pay it. Even the poorest of the poorest on the net. Like one cent to download a dozen big projects. A dollar for a yearly subscription to have a project hosted. Silly values.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Pff , a clone of their service is set up in a week .
And the costs... to host a project , you    d have to pay , what , a couple of cents ? It    s really silly .
Ask the project owners for generated traffic .
It    s so low , everybody can pay it .
Even the poorest of the poorest on the net .
Like one cent to download a dozen big projects .
A dollar for a yearly subscription to have a project hosted .
Silly values .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pff, a clone of their service is set up in a week.
And the costs... to host a project, you’d have to pay, what, a couple of cents?It’s really silly.
Ask the project owners for generated traffic.
It’s so low, everybody can pay it.
Even the poorest of the poorest on the net.
Like one cent to download a dozen big projects.
A dollar for a yearly subscription to have a project hosted.
Silly values.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30897232</id>
	<title>Re:Violation to freedoms of Free Software</title>
	<author>Jah-Wren Ryel</author>
	<datestamp>1264420020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>On the other hand, it's a little inconsistent to call SourceForge "cowardly" for not standing up the government. (Note that the wording of any OS agreement they adhere to is irrelevant -- no agreement to act illegally is valid.) Would you dare to flout Syrian law the same way? Not to judge your system of government, but you have to acknowledge the consequences would be pretty severe.</p></div><p>In the US, the legal system is <i>designed</i> such that bad laws need to be broken in order to get standing in court to have them overturned.  Syria doesn't even make a pretense that they expect citizens to challenge their laws.  Comparing the two is really disingenuous.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>On the other hand , it 's a little inconsistent to call SourceForge " cowardly " for not standing up the government .
( Note that the wording of any OS agreement they adhere to is irrelevant -- no agreement to act illegally is valid .
) Would you dare to flout Syrian law the same way ?
Not to judge your system of government , but you have to acknowledge the consequences would be pretty severe.In the US , the legal system is designed such that bad laws need to be broken in order to get standing in court to have them overturned .
Syria does n't even make a pretense that they expect citizens to challenge their laws .
Comparing the two is really disingenuous .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On the other hand, it's a little inconsistent to call SourceForge "cowardly" for not standing up the government.
(Note that the wording of any OS agreement they adhere to is irrelevant -- no agreement to act illegally is valid.
) Would you dare to flout Syrian law the same way?
Not to judge your system of government, but you have to acknowledge the consequences would be pretty severe.In the US, the legal system is designed such that bad laws need to be broken in order to get standing in court to have them overturned.
Syria doesn't even make a pretense that they expect citizens to challenge their laws.
Comparing the two is really disingenuous.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895234</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30896822</id>
	<title>Re:Violation to freedoms of Free Software</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1264417920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You know what this law essentially is?</p><p>The law says: If there are evil people in your country, all people in that country must be evil and punished.<br>If a skinhead on the street would say something like that, you&rsquo;d call him a <strong>fucking racist</strong>.<br>And that&rsquo;s exactly what it is.</p><p>Also, this thing here shows, why centralization can&rsquo;t work.<br>Fuck SourceForge! A clone of their services, with all features, is set up in what? A week? Tops.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You know what this law essentially is ? The law says : If there are evil people in your country , all people in that country must be evil and punished.If a skinhead on the street would say something like that , you    d call him a fucking racist.And that    s exactly what it is.Also , this thing here shows , why centralization can    t work.Fuck SourceForge !
A clone of their services , with all features , is set up in what ?
A week ?
Tops .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know what this law essentially is?The law says: If there are evil people in your country, all people in that country must be evil and punished.If a skinhead on the street would say something like that, you’d call him a fucking racist.And that’s exactly what it is.Also, this thing here shows, why centralization can’t work.Fuck SourceForge!
A clone of their services, with all features, is set up in what?
A week?
Tops.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894344</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894818</id>
	<title>Link without the annoying bar</title>
	<author>VGPowerlord</author>
	<datestamp>1264410300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://sourceforge.net/blog/clarifying-sourceforgenets-denial-of-site-access-for-certain-persons-in-accordance-with-us-law/" title="sourceforge.net">outlined the reasons behind the ban</a> [sourceforge.net], now with 100\% less obfuscation, link tracking, and annoying toolbar!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>outlined the reasons behind the ban [ sourceforge.net ] , now with 100 \ % less obfuscation , link tracking , and annoying toolbar !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>outlined the reasons behind the ban [sourceforge.net], now with 100\% less obfuscation, link tracking, and annoying toolbar!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895046</id>
	<title>Re:Violation to freedoms of Free Software</title>
	<author>OverlordQ</author>
	<datestamp>1264411080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sorry to burst your bubble, but the vast majority of people will pick not going to prison vs providing data to people the law wont allow just because it's 'Open Source'.</p><p>Being FLOSS has nothing to do with it, they'd still have to do this if they were hosting proprietary code.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry to burst your bubble , but the vast majority of people will pick not going to prison vs providing data to people the law wont allow just because it 's 'Open Source'.Being FLOSS has nothing to do with it , they 'd still have to do this if they were hosting proprietary code .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry to burst your bubble, but the vast majority of people will pick not going to prison vs providing data to people the law wont allow just because it's 'Open Source'.Being FLOSS has nothing to do with it, they'd still have to do this if they were hosting proprietary code.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894344</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894528</id>
	<title>So move then</title>
	<author>davidwr</author>
	<datestamp>1264452240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Relocate to another country.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Relocate to another country .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Relocate to another country.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30900158</id>
	<title>isnt Hillary ranting against this</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264440120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>sort of censorship in China?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>sort of censorship in China ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>sort of censorship in China?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894372</id>
	<title>Political Asylum</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264451640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>You should seek political asylum in Europe the land of the Real Free. Not bound by legal enslavement or crooked intelligence agencies, yet.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You should seek political asylum in Europe the land of the Real Free .
Not bound by legal enslavement or crooked intelligence agencies , yet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You should seek political asylum in Europe the land of the Real Free.
Not bound by legal enslavement or crooked intelligence agencies, yet.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894308</id>
	<title>Wassenaar Arrangement</title>
	<author>Thelasko</author>
	<datestamp>1264451340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm guessing this has something to do with the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wassenaar\_Arrangement" title="wikipedia.org">Wassenaar Arrangement.</a> [wikipedia.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm guessing this has something to do with the Wassenaar Arrangement .
[ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm guessing this has something to do with the Wassenaar Arrangement.
[wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30896008</id>
	<title>It's quite ridiculous in the first place...</title>
	<author>strangeintp</author>
	<datestamp>1264415040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's quite ridiculous in the first place that the US gov't would attempt to selectively block access to information available on the WORLD WIDE WEB.  It might be an annoyance, but it's not like it's really going to keep anybody from getting it, if they really want it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's quite ridiculous in the first place that the US gov't would attempt to selectively block access to information available on the WORLD WIDE WEB .
It might be an annoyance , but it 's not like it 's really going to keep anybody from getting it , if they really want it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's quite ridiculous in the first place that the US gov't would attempt to selectively block access to information available on the WORLD WIDE WEB.
It might be an annoyance, but it's not like it's really going to keep anybody from getting it, if they really want it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30901978</id>
	<title>Re:If you care, yank your projects</title>
	<author>aylons</author>
	<datestamp>1264505580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have another idea: if you are a coder for a free software (as defined by FSF) hosted in sourcefourge, and the principal maintainer don't move it, copy it yourself and ask other developers to come. If you care, off course.

It'll be a fork and a loss of strength, but I guess most contributors will still go with you to the other site.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have another idea : if you are a coder for a free software ( as defined by FSF ) hosted in sourcefourge , and the principal maintainer do n't move it , copy it yourself and ask other developers to come .
If you care , off course .
It 'll be a fork and a loss of strength , but I guess most contributors will still go with you to the other site .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have another idea: if you are a coder for a free software (as defined by FSF) hosted in sourcefourge, and the principal maintainer don't move it, copy it yourself and ask other developers to come.
If you care, off course.
It'll be a fork and a loss of strength, but I guess most contributors will still go with you to the other site.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894470</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895036</id>
	<title>Protest!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264411020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Anyone want to help a volutary DDoS of doc.gov?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Anyone want to help a volutary DDoS of doc.gov ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anyone want to help a volutary DDoS of doc.gov?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30898414</id>
	<title>Re:Violation to freedoms of Free Software</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264425780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm surprised you were able to post this comment on a site served to you by a US company. How could that be?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm surprised you were able to post this comment on a site served to you by a US company .
How could that be ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm surprised you were able to post this comment on a site served to you by a US company.
How could that be?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894344</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895058</id>
	<title>Free as in...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264411140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... beach? Spear? Cheaps?</p><p>What kind of open source are we dealing with here?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... beach ? Spear ?
Cheaps ? What kind of open source are we dealing with here ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... beach? Spear?
Cheaps?What kind of open source are we dealing with here?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30896900</id>
	<title>The URL minus the annoying ow.ly</title>
	<author>RonVNX</author>
	<datestamp>1264418220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://sourceforge.net/blog/clarifying-sourceforgenets-denial-of-site-access-for-certain-persons-in-accordance-with-us-law/" title="sourceforge.net" rel="nofollow">http://sourceforge.net/blog/clarifying-sourceforgenets-denial-of-site-access-for-certain-persons-in-accordance-with-us-law/</a> [sourceforge.net]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //sourceforge.net/blog/clarifying-sourceforgenets-denial-of-site-access-for-certain-persons-in-accordance-with-us-law/ [ sourceforge.net ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://sourceforge.net/blog/clarifying-sourceforgenets-denial-of-site-access-for-certain-persons-in-accordance-with-us-law/ [sourceforge.net]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895674</id>
	<title>Re:Sad but real</title>
	<author>phantomfive</author>
	<datestamp>1264413660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>On the face of it, that decision with the 72 year old professor sounds bad, but if you actually read the story he basically exported designs for military weapons out of the country and delivered them to China.  He was also warned beforehand that what he was doing was illegal and told to stop, but he kept doing it.<br> <br>
It's a completely different situation from this case, which appears to be a bit of security theater.</htmltext>
<tokenext>On the face of it , that decision with the 72 year old professor sounds bad , but if you actually read the story he basically exported designs for military weapons out of the country and delivered them to China .
He was also warned beforehand that what he was doing was illegal and told to stop , but he kept doing it .
It 's a completely different situation from this case , which appears to be a bit of security theater .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On the face of it, that decision with the 72 year old professor sounds bad, but if you actually read the story he basically exported designs for military weapons out of the country and delivered them to China.
He was also warned beforehand that what he was doing was illegal and told to stop, but he kept doing it.
It's a completely different situation from this case, which appears to be a bit of security theater.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895224</id>
	<title>A law that doesn't transfer well to the internet</title>
	<author>matzahboy</author>
	<datestamp>1264411920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The US export laws were created to hurt the countries that have horrible diplomatic relations with the US. If the US and its allies don't trade with those countries, those countries' economies will fall (in theory) and they will have to negotiate with us.

However, these laws don't really transfer well to open source software. Yes, the people in those countries should be allowed to access sf software. But the law is the law and there isn't much that sf can do. It would also be very difficult to try to reform these laws to account for open source software, since there would be a ton of loopholes.

Also, this is not a first ammendment violation or any kind of censorship. These laws block exports of products to those countries. There is no problem allowing them to view your website or see information. But giving them software to download violates the export laws. For example, Wikipedia has no problems with the export law. It is allowed to teach the countries on the export list. But that is because Wikipedia is only giving them information, not software.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The US export laws were created to hurt the countries that have horrible diplomatic relations with the US .
If the US and its allies do n't trade with those countries , those countries ' economies will fall ( in theory ) and they will have to negotiate with us .
However , these laws do n't really transfer well to open source software .
Yes , the people in those countries should be allowed to access sf software .
But the law is the law and there is n't much that sf can do .
It would also be very difficult to try to reform these laws to account for open source software , since there would be a ton of loopholes .
Also , this is not a first ammendment violation or any kind of censorship .
These laws block exports of products to those countries .
There is no problem allowing them to view your website or see information .
But giving them software to download violates the export laws .
For example , Wikipedia has no problems with the export law .
It is allowed to teach the countries on the export list .
But that is because Wikipedia is only giving them information , not software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The US export laws were created to hurt the countries that have horrible diplomatic relations with the US.
If the US and its allies don't trade with those countries, those countries' economies will fall (in theory) and they will have to negotiate with us.
However, these laws don't really transfer well to open source software.
Yes, the people in those countries should be allowed to access sf software.
But the law is the law and there isn't much that sf can do.
It would also be very difficult to try to reform these laws to account for open source software, since there would be a ton of loopholes.
Also, this is not a first ammendment violation or any kind of censorship.
These laws block exports of products to those countries.
There is no problem allowing them to view your website or see information.
But giving them software to download violates the export laws.
For example, Wikipedia has no problems with the export law.
It is allowed to teach the countries on the export list.
But that is because Wikipedia is only giving them information, not software.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895740</id>
	<title>Re:Wassenaar Arrangement</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264413960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Probably. What should have been in the summary is this: "SourceForge is incorporated in the USA and thus bound by USA law which prevents it from exporting certain materials that could conceivably be part of software hosted on the site to Syria, Sudan, Iran, North Korea and Cuba." There are several comments posted already that would have been pre-empted by that statement.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Probably .
What should have been in the summary is this : " SourceForge is incorporated in the USA and thus bound by USA law which prevents it from exporting certain materials that could conceivably be part of software hosted on the site to Syria , Sudan , Iran , North Korea and Cuba .
" There are several comments posted already that would have been pre-empted by that statement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Probably.
What should have been in the summary is this: "SourceForge is incorporated in the USA and thus bound by USA law which prevents it from exporting certain materials that could conceivably be part of software hosted on the site to Syria, Sudan, Iran, North Korea and Cuba.
" There are several comments posted already that would have been pre-empted by that statement.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894308</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30899152</id>
	<title>Re:Violation to freedoms of Free Software</title>
	<author>http</author>
	<datestamp>1264430520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How is this NOT one of those times?</htmltext>
<tokenext>How is this NOT one of those times ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How is this NOT one of those times?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895234</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894478</id>
	<title>Holy Crap! They're Right Next Door</title>
	<author>marcus</author>
	<datestamp>1264452060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Did Anyone Look at the Exclusion Lists?</p><p>There's a veritable population of excluded 'entities' right here in town!</p><p>Many have odd looking names like MAJIDA, AL KAYALI, ABDULAH, FADWA, etc.</p><p>Then there's the innocuous MYNET.NET, SYNAPTIX.NET,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did Anyone Look at the Exclusion Lists ? There 's a veritable population of excluded 'entities ' right here in town ! Many have odd looking names like MAJIDA , AL KAYALI , ABDULAH , FADWA , etc.Then there 's the innocuous MYNET.NET , SYNAPTIX.NET , .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did Anyone Look at the Exclusion Lists?There's a veritable population of excluded 'entities' right here in town!Many have odd looking names like MAJIDA, AL KAYALI, ABDULAH, FADWA, etc.Then there's the innocuous MYNET.NET, SYNAPTIX.NET, ...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895040</id>
	<title>Re:You don't fight Internet censorship...</title>
	<author>fm6</author>
	<datestamp>1264411020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This isn't about censorship, this is about denying countries we don't like access to our technology. That said, I agree that it's a stupid law that doesn't do anything at all useful.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is n't about censorship , this is about denying countries we do n't like access to our technology .
That said , I agree that it 's a stupid law that does n't do anything at all useful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This isn't about censorship, this is about denying countries we don't like access to our technology.
That said, I agree that it's a stupid law that doesn't do anything at all useful.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894338</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894796</id>
	<title>How typical..</title>
	<author>NiceGeek</author>
	<datestamp>1264410180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't see a single person who is complaining about this, offering to help fund moving SF.Net elsewhere.</p><p>Not so easy when you have to foot the bill, is it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't see a single person who is complaining about this , offering to help fund moving SF.Net elsewhere.Not so easy when you have to foot the bill , is it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't see a single person who is complaining about this, offering to help fund moving SF.Net elsewhere.Not so easy when you have to foot the bill, is it?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894586</id>
	<title>The issue is...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264452540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The real question is whether or not SourceForge is required to comply with the US Treasury laws.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The real question is whether or not SourceForge is required to comply with the US Treasury laws .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The real question is whether or not SourceForge is required to comply with the US Treasury laws.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894422</id>
	<title>Sad but real</title>
	<author>dtmos</author>
	<datestamp>1264451880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The alternative is to end up like <a href="http://tradelawyersblog.com/blog/archive/2009/july/article/university-professor-gets-severe-sentence-for-deemed-export-violations/?tx\_ttnews\%5Bday\%5D=27&amp;cHash=7232ca6273" title="tradelawyersblog.com">Prof. John Ross of the University of Tennessee</a> [tradelawyersblog.com], convicted of export control violations and sentenced to 4 years in prison -- at the age of 72.</p><p>What few in the US recognize is that the rules are even more stringent than indicated by SourceForge.  To be convicted of an export violation, one needs merely to discuss a controlled technology with a foreign national on one of <a href="http://www.bis.doc.gov/complianceandenforcement/liststocheck.htm" title="doc.gov">the lists</a> [doc.gov] -- which means, in addition to many other individuals, entities, and countries, any citizen of China or Iran.  Sending anything overseas is unnecessary to violate the law -- merely speaking to a group containing one such person in the audience (like at a private industry consortium meeting) is all that is needed.  And the list of controlled technologies is incredibly long: See the <a href="http://www.access.gpo.gov/bis/ear/ear\_data.html#ccl" title="gpo.gov">Commerce Control List</a> [gpo.gov], especially <a href="http://www.access.gpo.gov/bis/ear/pdf/ccl3.pdf" title="gpo.gov">Category 3 - Electronics</a> [gpo.gov], <a href="http://www.access.gpo.gov/bis/ear/pdf/ccl4.pdf" title="gpo.gov">Category 4 - Computers</a> [gpo.gov], <a href="http://www.access.gpo.gov/bis/ear/pdf/ccl5-pt1.pdf" title="gpo.gov">Category 5 (Part 1) - Telecommunications</a> [gpo.gov], <a href="http://www.access.gpo.gov/bis/ear/pdf/ccl5-pt2.pdf" title="gpo.gov">Category 5 (Part 2) - Information Security</a> [gpo.gov], and <a href="http://www.access.gpo.gov/bis/ear/pdf/774\_sup2.pdf" title="gpo.gov">Supplement No. 2 to Part 774 - General Technology and Software Notes</a> [gpo.gov].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The alternative is to end up like Prof. John Ross of the University of Tennessee [ tradelawyersblog.com ] , convicted of export control violations and sentenced to 4 years in prison -- at the age of 72.What few in the US recognize is that the rules are even more stringent than indicated by SourceForge .
To be convicted of an export violation , one needs merely to discuss a controlled technology with a foreign national on one of the lists [ doc.gov ] -- which means , in addition to many other individuals , entities , and countries , any citizen of China or Iran .
Sending anything overseas is unnecessary to violate the law -- merely speaking to a group containing one such person in the audience ( like at a private industry consortium meeting ) is all that is needed .
And the list of controlled technologies is incredibly long : See the Commerce Control List [ gpo.gov ] , especially Category 3 - Electronics [ gpo.gov ] , Category 4 - Computers [ gpo.gov ] , Category 5 ( Part 1 ) - Telecommunications [ gpo.gov ] , Category 5 ( Part 2 ) - Information Security [ gpo.gov ] , and Supplement No .
2 to Part 774 - General Technology and Software Notes [ gpo.gov ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The alternative is to end up like Prof. John Ross of the University of Tennessee [tradelawyersblog.com], convicted of export control violations and sentenced to 4 years in prison -- at the age of 72.What few in the US recognize is that the rules are even more stringent than indicated by SourceForge.
To be convicted of an export violation, one needs merely to discuss a controlled technology with a foreign national on one of the lists [doc.gov] -- which means, in addition to many other individuals, entities, and countries, any citizen of China or Iran.
Sending anything overseas is unnecessary to violate the law -- merely speaking to a group containing one such person in the audience (like at a private industry consortium meeting) is all that is needed.
And the list of controlled technologies is incredibly long: See the Commerce Control List [gpo.gov], especially Category 3 - Electronics [gpo.gov], Category 4 - Computers [gpo.gov], Category 5 (Part 1) - Telecommunications [gpo.gov], Category 5 (Part 2) - Information Security [gpo.gov], and Supplement No.
2 to Part 774 - General Technology and Software Notes [gpo.gov].</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894306</id>
	<title>Relocate SourceForge to China</title>
	<author>maroberts</author>
	<datestamp>1264451340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't think it has any problems with connection to any of those countries....</p><p>Maybe you can swap servers with Google...:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think it has any problems with connection to any of those countries....Maybe you can swap servers with Google... : - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think it has any problems with connection to any of those countries....Maybe you can swap servers with Google...:-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30913154</id>
	<title>Re:Violation to freedoms of Free Software</title>
	<author>rastoboy29</author>
	<datestamp>1264522200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><tt>Have you lost your mind?&nbsp; Free Software is not Products.<br>They wouldn't even be just U.S. products anyway.<br>And how is this different than if CNN.com started doing the same thing, avoiding shipping their news "product" to Syria.<br>Get a grip!</tt></htmltext>
<tokenext>Have you lost your mind ?   Free Software is not Products.They would n't even be just U.S. products anyway.And how is this different than if CNN.com started doing the same thing , avoiding shipping their news " product " to Syria.Get a grip !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have you lost your mind?  Free Software is not Products.They wouldn't even be just U.S. products anyway.And how is this different than if CNN.com started doing the same thing, avoiding shipping their news "product" to Syria.Get a grip!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895234</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894224</id>
	<title>Re:Failure of thought</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264451040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>WTF are you on about retard. Hatred has nothing to do with any of this. Are you 12 or simply an agent provocateur from one of the banned nations?</p><p>They, SF.net, choose to continue to operate in their home country. A country that affords them the greatest opportunity to succeed/profit. They are obligated to follow the laws of that country.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>WTF are you on about retard .
Hatred has nothing to do with any of this .
Are you 12 or simply an agent provocateur from one of the banned nations ? They , SF.net , choose to continue to operate in their home country .
A country that affords them the greatest opportunity to succeed/profit .
They are obligated to follow the laws of that country .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>WTF are you on about retard.
Hatred has nothing to do with any of this.
Are you 12 or simply an agent provocateur from one of the banned nations?They, SF.net, choose to continue to operate in their home country.
A country that affords them the greatest opportunity to succeed/profit.
They are obligated to follow the laws of that country.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894064</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895772</id>
	<title>Re:Sad but real</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264414080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think there's a great difference between accessing open source software on Source Forge and violating the terms of a contract with the US Airforce in developing technology for its drones. It seems the good frofessor Ross was selling information to the Chinese (in specific violation of the contract) and trying to hide the proceeds. (from your linked article).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think there 's a great difference between accessing open source software on Source Forge and violating the terms of a contract with the US Airforce in developing technology for its drones .
It seems the good frofessor Ross was selling information to the Chinese ( in specific violation of the contract ) and trying to hide the proceeds .
( from your linked article ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think there's a great difference between accessing open source software on Source Forge and violating the terms of a contract with the US Airforce in developing technology for its drones.
It seems the good frofessor Ross was selling information to the Chinese (in specific violation of the contract) and trying to hide the proceeds.
(from your linked article).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30902180</id>
	<title>Re:Violation to freedoms of Free Software</title>
	<author>Xest</author>
	<datestamp>1264507800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"On the other hand, it's a little inconsistent to call SourceForge "cowardly" for not standing up the government. (Note that the wording of any OS agreement they adhere to is irrelevant -- no agreement to act illegally is valid.)"</p><p>This is a legal quagmire. Whilst you're right that anyone in the US would not get in trouble for this, if someone in Europe were to say, fork a GPL project and then host it on SF then they could very well be in breach. The reason is because Europe does not have embargos on all these countries, so the license is not in conflict with the law for Europeans, if they host projects on SF knowing about the embargos, hence meaning they have put the forked GPL code somewhere where it is not equally available to all then they are certainly in breach of the GPL.</p><p>As you can see, this is a major problem, and if SF can't/won't relocate, then developers working with the GPL from outside of the US would probably be best served moving to a platform other than SF to ensure that they are adhering to the GPL.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" On the other hand , it 's a little inconsistent to call SourceForge " cowardly " for not standing up the government .
( Note that the wording of any OS agreement they adhere to is irrelevant -- no agreement to act illegally is valid .
) " This is a legal quagmire .
Whilst you 're right that anyone in the US would not get in trouble for this , if someone in Europe were to say , fork a GPL project and then host it on SF then they could very well be in breach .
The reason is because Europe does not have embargos on all these countries , so the license is not in conflict with the law for Europeans , if they host projects on SF knowing about the embargos , hence meaning they have put the forked GPL code somewhere where it is not equally available to all then they are certainly in breach of the GPL.As you can see , this is a major problem , and if SF ca n't/wo n't relocate , then developers working with the GPL from outside of the US would probably be best served moving to a platform other than SF to ensure that they are adhering to the GPL .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"On the other hand, it's a little inconsistent to call SourceForge "cowardly" for not standing up the government.
(Note that the wording of any OS agreement they adhere to is irrelevant -- no agreement to act illegally is valid.
)"This is a legal quagmire.
Whilst you're right that anyone in the US would not get in trouble for this, if someone in Europe were to say, fork a GPL project and then host it on SF then they could very well be in breach.
The reason is because Europe does not have embargos on all these countries, so the license is not in conflict with the law for Europeans, if they host projects on SF knowing about the embargos, hence meaning they have put the forked GPL code somewhere where it is not equally available to all then they are certainly in breach of the GPL.As you can see, this is a major problem, and if SF can't/won't relocate, then developers working with the GPL from outside of the US would probably be best served moving to a platform other than SF to ensure that they are adhering to the GPL.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895234</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30898770</id>
	<title>Re:Violation to freedoms of Free Software</title>
	<author>russotto</author>
	<datestamp>1264427700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>As a Syrian developer who contributed so several open source project</p></div></blockquote><p>User: neo00<br>Status: Account suspended by order of  United States Government.</p><p>Seriously, if the IEEE wouldn't stand up to the government on the issue of \_editing articles by Iranian authors\_ (same law, different application -- and one with much more direct First Amendment implications), you can't expect Sourceforge.net to stand up to them.  Make the penalty terrible enough and it doesn't matter how unjust the law is.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a Syrian developer who contributed so several open source projectUser : neo00Status : Account suspended by order of United States Government.Seriously , if the IEEE would n't stand up to the government on the issue of \ _editing articles by Iranian authors \ _ ( same law , different application -- and one with much more direct First Amendment implications ) , you ca n't expect Sourceforge.net to stand up to them .
Make the penalty terrible enough and it does n't matter how unjust the law is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a Syrian developer who contributed so several open source projectUser: neo00Status: Account suspended by order of  United States Government.Seriously, if the IEEE wouldn't stand up to the government on the issue of \_editing articles by Iranian authors\_ (same law, different application -- and one with much more direct First Amendment implications), you can't expect Sourceforge.net to stand up to them.
Make the penalty terrible enough and it doesn't matter how unjust the law is.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894344</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30897544</id>
	<title>Re:Violation to freedoms of Free Software</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264421640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Exporting certain types of software from the US to "evil" countries is illegal. If someone in $non-US-country hosts a project on sourceforge, it is being stored on sourceforge's servers (ie. importing it to the US). When someone downloads it from the US to $evil-country, they're causing the data in the US to be exported to $evil-country.</p><p>Ignoring the fact that these export policies are pointless, ridiculous, economically harmful and in general retarded, it does make some sense.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Exporting certain types of software from the US to " evil " countries is illegal .
If someone in $ non-US-country hosts a project on sourceforge , it is being stored on sourceforge 's servers ( ie .
importing it to the US ) .
When someone downloads it from the US to $ evil-country , they 're causing the data in the US to be exported to $ evil-country.Ignoring the fact that these export policies are pointless , ridiculous , economically harmful and in general retarded , it does make some sense .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exporting certain types of software from the US to "evil" countries is illegal.
If someone in $non-US-country hosts a project on sourceforge, it is being stored on sourceforge's servers (ie.
importing it to the US).
When someone downloads it from the US to $evil-country, they're causing the data in the US to be exported to $evil-country.Ignoring the fact that these export policies are pointless, ridiculous, economically harmful and in general retarded, it does make some sense.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894344</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895122</id>
	<title>Avoidance</title>
	<author>b4upoo</author>
	<datestamp>1264411440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>        There must be some legal way to bypass such laws. Perhaps having a foreign branch such that they can do what you can not do within the US would be sufficient. Freedom sometimes requires actions that people would not normally take.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There must be some legal way to bypass such laws .
Perhaps having a foreign branch such that they can do what you can not do within the US would be sufficient .
Freedom sometimes requires actions that people would not normally take .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>        There must be some legal way to bypass such laws.
Perhaps having a foreign branch such that they can do what you can not do within the US would be sufficient.
Freedom sometimes requires actions that people would not normally take.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895398</id>
	<title>Re:Sad but real</title>
	<author>istartedi</author>
	<datestamp>1264412640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I actually followed your first link, and I have no sympathy
for him.  WTF was he thinking?  Military project.  Non-disclosure
to foreign nationals IN HIS CONTRACT.  Taking a laptop to China.
Lying to his bosses.</p><p>That's not something you stumble into by accident.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I actually followed your first link , and I have no sympathy for him .
WTF was he thinking ?
Military project .
Non-disclosure to foreign nationals IN HIS CONTRACT .
Taking a laptop to China .
Lying to his bosses.That 's not something you stumble into by accident .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I actually followed your first link, and I have no sympathy
for him.
WTF was he thinking?
Military project.
Non-disclosure
to foreign nationals IN HIS CONTRACT.
Taking a laptop to China.
Lying to his bosses.That's not something you stumble into by accident.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30901434</id>
	<title>Re:If you care, yank your projects</title>
	<author>TheTurtlesMoves</author>
	<datestamp>1264497480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why not just mirror the page somewhere else?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why not just mirror the page somewhere else ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why not just mirror the page somewhere else?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894470</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894444</id>
	<title>"Internet Freedom"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264451940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f0c3bf8c-06bd-11df-b426-00144feabdc0,s01=1.html<br>http://lynch.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/01/22/the\_internet\_freedom\_agenda</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f0c3bf8c-06bd-11df-b426-00144feabdc0,s01 = 1.htmlhttp : //lynch.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/01/22/the \ _internet \ _freedom \ _agenda</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f0c3bf8c-06bd-11df-b426-00144feabdc0,s01=1.htmlhttp://lynch.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/01/22/the\_internet\_freedom\_agenda</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30897714</id>
	<title>Re:First Amendment Violation?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264422360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The bill of rights only applies to citizens, and in some cases, residents of the United States.  If you aren't one of us, our constitution does not afford you any protections from government idiocy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The bill of rights only applies to citizens , and in some cases , residents of the United States .
If you are n't one of us , our constitution does not afford you any protections from government idiocy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The bill of rights only applies to citizens, and in some cases, residents of the United States.
If you aren't one of us, our constitution does not afford you any protections from government idiocy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894954</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30896288</id>
	<title>Github, Google code</title>
	<author>FlyingBishop</author>
	<datestamp>1264415940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was probably going to use anyway, being far less spammy, and providing easy export of my source tree.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was probably going to use anyway , being far less spammy , and providing easy export of my source tree .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was probably going to use anyway, being far less spammy, and providing easy export of my source tree.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895098</id>
	<title>Re:Political Asylum</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264411320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>umm,,, you mean like the lisbon treaty.  Free. sure.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>umm,, , you mean like the lisbon treaty .
Free. sure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>umm,,, you mean like the lisbon treaty.
Free. sure.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894372</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30896996</id>
	<title>Re:Violation to freedoms of Free Software</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264418700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The license doesn't discriminate. You're just suffering from terms of service which happens to be influenced by local laws.</p><p>If you used a DVCS (Hg, Git, Bzr, Darcs), then you haven't lost your source, you're just unfortunately disconnected. You're free to do work.</p><p>You could also complain to your local government that their practices are harming your ability to do whatever you feel you're entitled to do (under your local laws). This is actually, in part, the goal of the legislation. If you and your neighbors complain to your government and force it to get rid of whichever thing it is that the people who wrote the law objected to, then as a reward your country would be removed from the ban list.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The license does n't discriminate .
You 're just suffering from terms of service which happens to be influenced by local laws.If you used a DVCS ( Hg , Git , Bzr , Darcs ) , then you have n't lost your source , you 're just unfortunately disconnected .
You 're free to do work.You could also complain to your local government that their practices are harming your ability to do whatever you feel you 're entitled to do ( under your local laws ) .
This is actually , in part , the goal of the legislation .
If you and your neighbors complain to your government and force it to get rid of whichever thing it is that the people who wrote the law objected to , then as a reward your country would be removed from the ban list .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The license doesn't discriminate.
You're just suffering from terms of service which happens to be influenced by local laws.If you used a DVCS (Hg, Git, Bzr, Darcs), then you haven't lost your source, you're just unfortunately disconnected.
You're free to do work.You could also complain to your local government that their practices are harming your ability to do whatever you feel you're entitled to do (under your local laws).
This is actually, in part, the goal of the legislation.
If you and your neighbors complain to your government and force it to get rid of whichever thing it is that the people who wrote the law objected to, then as a reward your country would be removed from the ban list.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894344</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30899048</id>
	<title>The lawyers and the law</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264429740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is the law and then there are lawyers who assume their interpretation keeps their clients safe. So SF.net' lawyers deemed it safer to assume that they need to keep certain entities from accessing the data as per the law in the US.  Did SF.net get warned by the government?  Were they forced to block these nations?  Where SF.net's lawyers who will fight to argue that these sites are not exporting US technology and hence should be excluded?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is the law and then there are lawyers who assume their interpretation keeps their clients safe .
So SF.net ' lawyers deemed it safer to assume that they need to keep certain entities from accessing the data as per the law in the US .
Did SF.net get warned by the government ?
Were they forced to block these nations ?
Where SF.net 's lawyers who will fight to argue that these sites are not exporting US technology and hence should be excluded ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is the law and then there are lawyers who assume their interpretation keeps their clients safe.
So SF.net' lawyers deemed it safer to assume that they need to keep certain entities from accessing the data as per the law in the US.
Did SF.net get warned by the government?
Were they forced to block these nations?
Where SF.net's lawyers who will fight to argue that these sites are not exporting US technology and hence should be excluded?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894318</id>
	<title>Re:Failure of thought</title>
	<author>Antidamage</author>
	<datestamp>1264451400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, I was looking for a better word than hatred but it does outline one of the main causes of bad international relations. Plus you're a douchesock.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , I was looking for a better word than hatred but it does outline one of the main causes of bad international relations .
Plus you 're a douchesock .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, I was looking for a better word than hatred but it does outline one of the main causes of bad international relations.
Plus you're a douchesock.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894224</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894954</id>
	<title>First Amendment Violation?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264410660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why wouldn't this be considered a violation of the first amendment?  (Not SF.net blocking, but the laws which that censorship is based).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why would n't this be considered a violation of the first amendment ?
( Not SF.net blocking , but the laws which that censorship is based ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why wouldn't this be considered a violation of the first amendment?
(Not SF.net blocking, but the laws which that censorship is based).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894496</id>
	<title>Re:Violation to freedoms of Free Software</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264452120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem is the hosting is in the U.S.  Like it or not, that gives the U.S. government leverage to enforce its laws on the organization.</p><p>Push sf.net to move to offshore hosting.  As long as its servers are in the U.S., sf cannot expect to win a fight with the U.S. gov't.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is the hosting is in the U.S. Like it or not , that gives the U.S. government leverage to enforce its laws on the organization.Push sf.net to move to offshore hosting .
As long as its servers are in the U.S. , sf can not expect to win a fight with the U.S. gov't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is the hosting is in the U.S.  Like it or not, that gives the U.S. government leverage to enforce its laws on the organization.Push sf.net to move to offshore hosting.
As long as its servers are in the U.S., sf cannot expect to win a fight with the U.S. gov't.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894344</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30897606</id>
	<title>And what laws might those be?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264421880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Can we, for once, put at least a small idea of what $\%#@ law(s) are getting in the way?  Of what the specific issue is?</p><p>It is all vague references to "certain laws", both in the summary, and in a handful of comments I perused.  There's a link, but it points to one of these url-shorteners.  Why?  And why the deliberate vagueness in summary?</p><p>I stopped by with 90 seconds to skim an article and instead of being enlightened I'm only more puzzled.  I'm currently short on time to go digging and see where the url points to (I don't click randomly), and whether it'd be worthwhile to read it now, read it later, or ignore it.  But instead, all the summary did was waste my time and move me to rant about it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Can we , for once , put at least a small idea of what $ \ % # @ law ( s ) are getting in the way ?
Of what the specific issue is ? It is all vague references to " certain laws " , both in the summary , and in a handful of comments I perused .
There 's a link , but it points to one of these url-shorteners .
Why ? And why the deliberate vagueness in summary ? I stopped by with 90 seconds to skim an article and instead of being enlightened I 'm only more puzzled .
I 'm currently short on time to go digging and see where the url points to ( I do n't click randomly ) , and whether it 'd be worthwhile to read it now , read it later , or ignore it .
But instead , all the summary did was waste my time and move me to rant about it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can we, for once, put at least a small idea of what $\%#@ law(s) are getting in the way?
Of what the specific issue is?It is all vague references to "certain laws", both in the summary, and in a handful of comments I perused.
There's a link, but it points to one of these url-shorteners.
Why?  And why the deliberate vagueness in summary?I stopped by with 90 seconds to skim an article and instead of being enlightened I'm only more puzzled.
I'm currently short on time to go digging and see where the url points to (I don't click randomly), and whether it'd be worthwhile to read it now, read it later, or ignore it.
But instead, all the summary did was waste my time and move me to rant about it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30898506</id>
	<title>Re:Sad but real</title>
	<author>flydpnkrtn</author>
	<datestamp>1264426260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm having a hard time figuring out what the grandparent poster's point in pointing out the Prof. Ross case as well... the man deliberately gave away military secrets.</p><p>Unless he has a legitimate defense that involves arguing he's senile or he's suffering from dementia, he did the crime so he's doing the time....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm having a hard time figuring out what the grandparent poster 's point in pointing out the Prof. Ross case as well... the man deliberately gave away military secrets.Unless he has a legitimate defense that involves arguing he 's senile or he 's suffering from dementia , he did the crime so he 's doing the time... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm having a hard time figuring out what the grandparent poster's point in pointing out the Prof. Ross case as well... the man deliberately gave away military secrets.Unless he has a legitimate defense that involves arguing he's senile or he's suffering from dementia, he did the crime so he's doing the time....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895612</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30899714</id>
	<title>Re:What if they refused to obey?</title>
	<author>PPH</author>
	<datestamp>1264435980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It depends on who yu are and how you go about circumventing these laws. If your just a little guy, and the Feds decide to make an example of you, you're screwed. If you are a large corporation and you subcontract development of your products to a country not bound by these laws and then your subcontractor provides these named individuals/countries with access, game on.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It depends on who yu are and how you go about circumventing these laws .
If your just a little guy , and the Feds decide to make an example of you , you 're screwed .
If you are a large corporation and you subcontract development of your products to a country not bound by these laws and then your subcontractor provides these named individuals/countries with access , game on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It depends on who yu are and how you go about circumventing these laws.
If your just a little guy, and the Feds decide to make an example of you, you're screwed.
If you are a large corporation and you subcontract development of your products to a country not bound by these laws and then your subcontractor provides these named individuals/countries with access, game on.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30896808</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30896694</id>
	<title>Re:Failure of thought</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264417380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, the problem is that the moral of the story is this- SF believes that profits are more important than the open source ideology it intends to support. That should set alarm bells ringing in the head of anyone who is serious about the open source ideology. Even if you don't care about the nations that are blocked, it begs the question, is SF really a good place to host an open source project anymore? Can you be sure some commercial interest wont result in interference with your project? What if your lead maintainer is in a country like Venezuela that is not yet blacklisted but could be tommorrow? What if some overriding commercial interest leads to other scenarios that could cause major problems for your project?</p><p>It's a little bit of a concern that SF doesn't understand that what they are doing goes against some fundamental principles of openness, an ideology that is held very strongly by many of the people it depends on to be relevant and could very well in itself lead to a loss in income for them if people really do believe in openness and decide to go elsewhere.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , the problem is that the moral of the story is this- SF believes that profits are more important than the open source ideology it intends to support .
That should set alarm bells ringing in the head of anyone who is serious about the open source ideology .
Even if you do n't care about the nations that are blocked , it begs the question , is SF really a good place to host an open source project anymore ?
Can you be sure some commercial interest wont result in interference with your project ?
What if your lead maintainer is in a country like Venezuela that is not yet blacklisted but could be tommorrow ?
What if some overriding commercial interest leads to other scenarios that could cause major problems for your project ? It 's a little bit of a concern that SF does n't understand that what they are doing goes against some fundamental principles of openness , an ideology that is held very strongly by many of the people it depends on to be relevant and could very well in itself lead to a loss in income for them if people really do believe in openness and decide to go elsewhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, the problem is that the moral of the story is this- SF believes that profits are more important than the open source ideology it intends to support.
That should set alarm bells ringing in the head of anyone who is serious about the open source ideology.
Even if you don't care about the nations that are blocked, it begs the question, is SF really a good place to host an open source project anymore?
Can you be sure some commercial interest wont result in interference with your project?
What if your lead maintainer is in a country like Venezuela that is not yet blacklisted but could be tommorrow?
What if some overriding commercial interest leads to other scenarios that could cause major problems for your project?It's a little bit of a concern that SF doesn't understand that what they are doing goes against some fundamental principles of openness, an ideology that is held very strongly by many of the people it depends on to be relevant and could very well in itself lead to a loss in income for them if people really do believe in openness and decide to go elsewhere.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894168</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895614</id>
	<title>good</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264413480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The countries on the list often support nuclear proliferation, terrorism, support the destruction of Israel, bind fundamentalist muslim radical beliefs in their governments, etc. Some say it's better to "feed the geeks" in those countries hoping they will someday change their parent government, but that's more of an idealistic belief than anything demonstrable. The geeks were recently slaughtered wholesale in Iran...for the most part, the geeks get gunned down first and easiest. Iran and Syria have been funding and training soldiers for attacks on US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The countries on the list often support nuclear proliferation , terrorism , support the destruction of Israel , bind fundamentalist muslim radical beliefs in their governments , etc .
Some say it 's better to " feed the geeks " in those countries hoping they will someday change their parent government , but that 's more of an idealistic belief than anything demonstrable .
The geeks were recently slaughtered wholesale in Iran...for the most part , the geeks get gunned down first and easiest .
Iran and Syria have been funding and training soldiers for attacks on US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The countries on the list often support nuclear proliferation, terrorism, support the destruction of Israel, bind fundamentalist muslim radical beliefs in their governments, etc.
Some say it's better to "feed the geeks" in those countries hoping they will someday change their parent government, but that's more of an idealistic belief than anything demonstrable.
The geeks were recently slaughtered wholesale in Iran...for the most part, the geeks get gunned down first and easiest.
Iran and Syria have been funding and training soldiers for attacks on US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894364</id>
	<title>Re:Failure of thought</title>
	<author>wizardforce</author>
	<datestamp>1264451640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It rubs pretty much everyone at Slashdot the wrong way so why don't we all chip in to create a mirror site or something based outside the US?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It rubs pretty much everyone at Slashdot the wrong way so why do n't we all chip in to create a mirror site or something based outside the US ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It rubs pretty much everyone at Slashdot the wrong way so why don't we all chip in to create a mirror site or something based outside the US?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894064</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895338</id>
	<title>Re:Sad but real</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264412460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wouldn't hold Ross as a gleaming example of the wrongs of export control.  Ross is serving time for his own stupidity.  There  is an export control review performed on the statement of work/proposal.  There is declaration form that you must sign stating that you will abide by the controls.  In the case of Ross, the conditions stated that his work to be export controlled.  To receive the funds, he must have agreed to the conditions.  What does Ross \_immediately\_ do upon receiving his funding?  He hires foreign nationalists to perform the research and travels to a conference in China to present results...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would n't hold Ross as a gleaming example of the wrongs of export control .
Ross is serving time for his own stupidity .
There is an export control review performed on the statement of work/proposal .
There is declaration form that you must sign stating that you will abide by the controls .
In the case of Ross , the conditions stated that his work to be export controlled .
To receive the funds , he must have agreed to the conditions .
What does Ross \ _immediately \ _ do upon receiving his funding ?
He hires foreign nationalists to perform the research and travels to a conference in China to present results.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wouldn't hold Ross as a gleaming example of the wrongs of export control.
Ross is serving time for his own stupidity.
There  is an export control review performed on the statement of work/proposal.
There is declaration form that you must sign stating that you will abide by the controls.
In the case of Ross, the conditions stated that his work to be export controlled.
To receive the funds, he must have agreed to the conditions.
What does Ross \_immediately\_ do upon receiving his funding?
He hires foreign nationalists to perform the research and travels to a conference in China to present results...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894910</id>
	<title>Syria Supports Hezbollah</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264410540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Perhaps instead of expressing anger at SF, affected persons should complain to their own governments instead?</p><p>Syria is on the list of countries that support terrorism, to wit, Hezbollah, according to the US Secretary of State.  Accordingly, doing business with anyone in Syria is usually prohibited.</p><p>Is the real problem that the United States has designated Syria as a state-sponsor, or that Syria backs a bunch of paramilitary thugs?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps instead of expressing anger at SF , affected persons should complain to their own governments instead ? Syria is on the list of countries that support terrorism , to wit , Hezbollah , according to the US Secretary of State .
Accordingly , doing business with anyone in Syria is usually prohibited.Is the real problem that the United States has designated Syria as a state-sponsor , or that Syria backs a bunch of paramilitary thugs ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps instead of expressing anger at SF, affected persons should complain to their own governments instead?Syria is on the list of countries that support terrorism, to wit, Hezbollah, according to the US Secretary of State.
Accordingly, doing business with anyone in Syria is usually prohibited.Is the real problem that the United States has designated Syria as a state-sponsor, or that Syria backs a bunch of paramilitary thugs?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30896310</id>
	<title>Standing for Something</title>
	<author>Velska1</author>
	<datestamp>1264416000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think it may be good that SF.net abides the law. There are too many people who think that "open source" is all about <em>breaking</em> the law. That is, people crack copy protections, passwords etc. and some thing the whole community is about that, 'coz that's what they hear.</p><p>Now they see that the community is not about breaking the law, it's about making software.</p><p>Also, I think this may give to some a reason to perhaps rethink certain laws that restrict commerce and <em>free exchange of ideas</em>.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it may be good that SF.net abides the law .
There are too many people who think that " open source " is all about breaking the law .
That is , people crack copy protections , passwords etc .
and some thing the whole community is about that , 'coz that 's what they hear.Now they see that the community is not about breaking the law , it 's about making software.Also , I think this may give to some a reason to perhaps rethink certain laws that restrict commerce and free exchange of ideas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it may be good that SF.net abides the law.
There are too many people who think that "open source" is all about breaking the law.
That is, people crack copy protections, passwords etc.
and some thing the whole community is about that, 'coz that's what they hear.Now they see that the community is not about breaking the law, it's about making software.Also, I think this may give to some a reason to perhaps rethink certain laws that restrict commerce and free exchange of ideas.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30900294</id>
	<title>Re:Sourceforge Proxy Server</title>
	<author>webweave</author>
	<datestamp>1264441260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Look up what a proxy server is. This makes no sense at all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Look up what a proxy server is .
This makes no sense at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look up what a proxy server is.
This makes no sense at all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894906</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30897882</id>
	<title>Re:Violation to freedoms of Free Software</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264423260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This definitely goes against the spirit if not the legality of the agreement.  As much of FLOSS is based on the implied agreement this should be a critical issue for SF.</p><p>The solution seems rather simple though:</p><p>1. Formulate a plan to address this issue and make a news announcement VERY soon stating that you are at least working on the problem.  It would be better to have a rough timeline for implementation to show you already began addressing the issue and set expectations.  More important though is to not loose confidence in a service where confidence/creditability are such a large part of your service.<br>2. Implement plan.  IANAL but this likely involves creating a Subsidiary/Sister company that handles all hosting and infrastructure that is completely based outside the U.S. and any other country that has such ridiculous regulations.<br>3. Setup the hosting and other facilities in the new location<br>4. Re-establish service to all Internet users<br>5. Make a news announcement letting everyone know service has been restored to everyone who was blocked and showing how seriously you take the job you are tasked with thereby restoring and even reinforcing your image as a premier FLOSS code hosting service.</p><p>This is one of the ways the Internet routes around censorship.  The other is to just do nothing and let another service take all your clients.  That also can work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This definitely goes against the spirit if not the legality of the agreement .
As much of FLOSS is based on the implied agreement this should be a critical issue for SF.The solution seems rather simple though : 1 .
Formulate a plan to address this issue and make a news announcement VERY soon stating that you are at least working on the problem .
It would be better to have a rough timeline for implementation to show you already began addressing the issue and set expectations .
More important though is to not loose confidence in a service where confidence/creditability are such a large part of your service.2 .
Implement plan .
IANAL but this likely involves creating a Subsidiary/Sister company that handles all hosting and infrastructure that is completely based outside the U.S. and any other country that has such ridiculous regulations.3 .
Setup the hosting and other facilities in the new location4 .
Re-establish service to all Internet users5 .
Make a news announcement letting everyone know service has been restored to everyone who was blocked and showing how seriously you take the job you are tasked with thereby restoring and even reinforcing your image as a premier FLOSS code hosting service.This is one of the ways the Internet routes around censorship .
The other is to just do nothing and let another service take all your clients .
That also can work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This definitely goes against the spirit if not the legality of the agreement.
As much of FLOSS is based on the implied agreement this should be a critical issue for SF.The solution seems rather simple though:1.
Formulate a plan to address this issue and make a news announcement VERY soon stating that you are at least working on the problem.
It would be better to have a rough timeline for implementation to show you already began addressing the issue and set expectations.
More important though is to not loose confidence in a service where confidence/creditability are such a large part of your service.2.
Implement plan.
IANAL but this likely involves creating a Subsidiary/Sister company that handles all hosting and infrastructure that is completely based outside the U.S. and any other country that has such ridiculous regulations.3.
Setup the hosting and other facilities in the new location4.
Re-establish service to all Internet users5.
Make a news announcement letting everyone know service has been restored to everyone who was blocked and showing how seriously you take the job you are tasked with thereby restoring and even reinforcing your image as a premier FLOSS code hosting service.This is one of the ways the Internet routes around censorship.
The other is to just do nothing and let another service take all your clients.
That also can work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894344</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30897900</id>
	<title>Re:Violation to freedoms of Free Software</title>
	<author>DriedClexler</author>
	<datestamp>1264423320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Sorry, I can't understand this decision which was taken silently and cowardly by sf.net .</p> </div><p>They're no more cowardly than you are in letting your goverment harbor and sponsor terrorists.</p><p>I know what you're thinking -- "You can't expect me to change government policy on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...", and you're right.</p><p>Well, neither can SourceForge change government policy -- and they're right.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry , I ca n't understand this decision which was taken silently and cowardly by sf.net .
They 're no more cowardly than you are in letting your goverment harbor and sponsor terrorists.I know what you 're thinking -- " You ca n't expect me to change government policy on ... " , and you 're right.Well , neither can SourceForge change government policy -- and they 're right .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry, I can't understand this decision which was taken silently and cowardly by sf.net .
They're no more cowardly than you are in letting your goverment harbor and sponsor terrorists.I know what you're thinking -- "You can't expect me to change government policy on ...", and you're right.Well, neither can SourceForge change government policy -- and they're right.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894344</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894488</id>
	<title>Re:Violation to freedoms of Free Software</title>
	<author>achbed</author>
	<datestamp>1264452120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The issue is not the ownership or contributing membership of the individual projects.  The issue is that by hosting, a copy of the software is being maintained under the control of whomever owns and/or controls the hosting servers.  In the case of software hosted by a US company or person, that company or person is held responsible for ensuring that the content of that server follows applicable US and/or state law.  This includes export laws.  So, by you uploading something to their server, they are instantly liable for that.  And for every transmission, that is one export, so charge counts, and thus fines add up fast.  To ensure that they exist as a company tomorrow, they have to take this step (as crappy as it seems).</p><p>Oh and to those of you suggesting to move the hosting servers, that does not remove you from legal liability.  If the servers are under your control, and you live in the US, you still have to follow US export laws.  So, just by setting up a mirror server in another country that's on the export list, you're violating the law.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The issue is not the ownership or contributing membership of the individual projects .
The issue is that by hosting , a copy of the software is being maintained under the control of whomever owns and/or controls the hosting servers .
In the case of software hosted by a US company or person , that company or person is held responsible for ensuring that the content of that server follows applicable US and/or state law .
This includes export laws .
So , by you uploading something to their server , they are instantly liable for that .
And for every transmission , that is one export , so charge counts , and thus fines add up fast .
To ensure that they exist as a company tomorrow , they have to take this step ( as crappy as it seems ) .Oh and to those of you suggesting to move the hosting servers , that does not remove you from legal liability .
If the servers are under your control , and you live in the US , you still have to follow US export laws .
So , just by setting up a mirror server in another country that 's on the export list , you 're violating the law .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The issue is not the ownership or contributing membership of the individual projects.
The issue is that by hosting, a copy of the software is being maintained under the control of whomever owns and/or controls the hosting servers.
In the case of software hosted by a US company or person, that company or person is held responsible for ensuring that the content of that server follows applicable US and/or state law.
This includes export laws.
So, by you uploading something to their server, they are instantly liable for that.
And for every transmission, that is one export, so charge counts, and thus fines add up fast.
To ensure that they exist as a company tomorrow, they have to take this step (as crappy as it seems).Oh and to those of you suggesting to move the hosting servers, that does not remove you from legal liability.
If the servers are under your control, and you live in the US, you still have to follow US export laws.
So, just by setting up a mirror server in another country that's on the export list, you're violating the law.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894344</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894354</id>
	<title>Re:Failure of thought</title>
	<author>fibrewire</author>
	<datestamp>1264451520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Peer 2 Peer traffic gets by this obstacle for the insta-solution.</p><p>But for the long term, if somecorp created a not-for-profit internet protected under the same laws as embassy or chancery, to stop the flow of data only if both countries are in agreement. Then that would stop say, a corporation! from stopping the flow of data as opposed to a government - and if say, China! wanted to stop the flow of data from the US to China or vice-versa, then they would need to come to an agreement, else there would be an international incident.</p><p>I don't know, the logic is present - but fitting it into actuality is not one of my strong points.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Peer 2 Peer traffic gets by this obstacle for the insta-solution.But for the long term , if somecorp created a not-for-profit internet protected under the same laws as embassy or chancery , to stop the flow of data only if both countries are in agreement .
Then that would stop say , a corporation !
from stopping the flow of data as opposed to a government - and if say , China !
wanted to stop the flow of data from the US to China or vice-versa , then they would need to come to an agreement , else there would be an international incident.I do n't know , the logic is present - but fitting it into actuality is not one of my strong points .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Peer 2 Peer traffic gets by this obstacle for the insta-solution.But for the long term, if somecorp created a not-for-profit internet protected under the same laws as embassy or chancery, to stop the flow of data only if both countries are in agreement.
Then that would stop say, a corporation!
from stopping the flow of data as opposed to a government - and if say, China!
wanted to stop the flow of data from the US to China or vice-versa, then they would need to come to an agreement, else there would be an international incident.I don't know, the logic is present - but fitting it into actuality is not one of my strong points.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894064</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895128</id>
	<title>Re:Sad but real</title>
	<author>lgw</author>
	<datestamp>1264411440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That John Ross guy (to judge from your link) shared information from a military contract with a foreign national.  What did he think would happen?  That seems unrelated to your point that export controls can be surprising.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That John Ross guy ( to judge from your link ) shared information from a military contract with a foreign national .
What did he think would happen ?
That seems unrelated to your point that export controls can be surprising .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That John Ross guy (to judge from your link) shared information from a military contract with a foreign national.
What did he think would happen?
That seems unrelated to your point that export controls can be surprising.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30896808</id>
	<title>What if they refused to obey?</title>
	<author>ElusiveJoe</author>
	<datestamp>1264417800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I always wondered, what would happen if someone refused to obey these stupid US laws about Iran and Cuba . Would he be arrested as a 'traitor' or even as a 'terrorist'? What if he wasn't a US citizen?  How can a country, valuing freedom of speech and democracy so much, place such restrictions on its citizens? Why information censoring in China is considered 'bad' and in US - 'good'?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I always wondered , what would happen if someone refused to obey these stupid US laws about Iran and Cuba .
Would he be arrested as a 'traitor ' or even as a 'terrorist ' ?
What if he was n't a US citizen ?
How can a country , valuing freedom of speech and democracy so much , place such restrictions on its citizens ?
Why information censoring in China is considered 'bad ' and in US - 'good ' ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I always wondered, what would happen if someone refused to obey these stupid US laws about Iran and Cuba .
Would he be arrested as a 'traitor' or even as a 'terrorist'?
What if he wasn't a US citizen?
How can a country, valuing freedom of speech and democracy so much, place such restrictions on its citizens?
Why information censoring in China is considered 'bad' and in US - 'good'?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30896664</id>
	<title>Re:You don't fight Internet censorship...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264417320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... But SF.net getting shut down over this law is not an option either. It really, really sucks to be SF.net in this situation: either solution will hurt you. Its just that the public outrage this decision will no doubt create is less harmful than the entire system being shot. I hope the US reconsiders its laws, or that SF.net manages to find some way to get around it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... But SF.net getting shut down over this law is not an option either .
It really , really sucks to be SF.net in this situation : either solution will hurt you .
Its just that the public outrage this decision will no doubt create is less harmful than the entire system being shot .
I hope the US reconsiders its laws , or that SF.net manages to find some way to get around it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... But SF.net getting shut down over this law is not an option either.
It really, really sucks to be SF.net in this situation: either solution will hurt you.
Its just that the public outrage this decision will no doubt create is less harmful than the entire system being shot.
I hope the US reconsiders its laws, or that SF.net manages to find some way to get around it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894338</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894326</id>
	<title>And the problem is?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264451460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This means users residing in countries on the United States Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) sanction list, including Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Sudan, and Syria, may not post content to, or access content available through, SourceForge.net.</p></div><p>What's the problem? </p><p>If people in those countries want to access sf.net, then how about they change their governments or move out.</p><p>I have no problem blocking those countries and I would like to add a few others. Yemen and Somalia for starters.</p><p>Don't forget, those countries encourage and harbor dirtbags that want to harm us just because we're Americans and because our Government and a few people in this country supports Israel. </p><p> Fuck'em. When they become civilized members of the World community, then I'll welcome them.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This means users residing in countries on the United States Office of Foreign Assets Control ( OFAC ) sanction list , including Cuba , Iran , North Korea , Sudan , and Syria , may not post content to , or access content available through , SourceForge.net.What 's the problem ?
If people in those countries want to access sf.net , then how about they change their governments or move out.I have no problem blocking those countries and I would like to add a few others .
Yemen and Somalia for starters.Do n't forget , those countries encourage and harbor dirtbags that want to harm us just because we 're Americans and because our Government and a few people in this country supports Israel .
Fuck'em. When they become civilized members of the World community , then I 'll welcome them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This means users residing in countries on the United States Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) sanction list, including Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Sudan, and Syria, may not post content to, or access content available through, SourceForge.net.What's the problem?
If people in those countries want to access sf.net, then how about they change their governments or move out.I have no problem blocking those countries and I would like to add a few others.
Yemen and Somalia for starters.Don't forget, those countries encourage and harbor dirtbags that want to harm us just because we're Americans and because our Government and a few people in this country supports Israel.
Fuck'em. When they become civilized members of the World community, then I'll welcome them.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30898940</id>
	<title>Use TOR</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264428840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why can't these people just use TOR?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why ca n't these people just use TOR ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why can't these people just use TOR?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30908974</id>
	<title>Re:First Amendment Violation?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264496400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Who cares about pathetic things like constitutions? They'll just invoke "National Security". Trumps all, no questions asked.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Who cares about pathetic things like constitutions ?
They 'll just invoke " National Security " .
Trumps all , no questions asked .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who cares about pathetic things like constitutions?
They'll just invoke "National Security".
Trumps all, no questions asked.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894954</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895556</id>
	<title>Re:GPL prohibits that, no?</title>
	<author>phantomfive</author>
	<datestamp>1264413240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The GPL says, essentially, "if you compile this and distribute it to people, you also have to give them the source code."  If they don't give the compiled version to people in Syria, they are under no obligation to give the source code.  So it's ok.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The GPL says , essentially , " if you compile this and distribute it to people , you also have to give them the source code .
" If they do n't give the compiled version to people in Syria , they are under no obligation to give the source code .
So it 's ok .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The GPL says, essentially, "if you compile this and distribute it to people, you also have to give them the source code.
"  If they don't give the compiled version to people in Syria, they are under no obligation to give the source code.
So it's ok.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894560</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894730</id>
	<title>Law is counter to legislators' intentions</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264453140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>This means users residing in countries on the United States Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) sanction list, including Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Sudan, and Syria, may not post content to, or access content available through, SourceForge.net.</i> <br> <br>So basically -- help Iranian dissidents in their struggle against Islamofascist tyranny = get prosecuted by the Feds and go to prison as a possible traitor in your own country.  Way to go, Congress.  Way to go...</htmltext>
<tokenext>This means users residing in countries on the United States Office of Foreign Assets Control ( OFAC ) sanction list , including Cuba , Iran , North Korea , Sudan , and Syria , may not post content to , or access content available through , SourceForge.net .
So basically -- help Iranian dissidents in their struggle against Islamofascist tyranny = get prosecuted by the Feds and go to prison as a possible traitor in your own country .
Way to go , Congress .
Way to go.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This means users residing in countries on the United States Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) sanction list, including Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Sudan, and Syria, may not post content to, or access content available through, SourceForge.net.
So basically -- help Iranian dissidents in their struggle against Islamofascist tyranny = get prosecuted by the Feds and go to prison as a possible traitor in your own country.
Way to go, Congress.
Way to go...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894906</id>
	<title>Sourceforge Proxy Server</title>
	<author>Hadur</author>
	<datestamp>1264410540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>SF should lease some space in their datacenter for a server or two to be used as a proxy server to some other company. Make sure this proxy server is locked down to only offer SF - not the whole Internet. The additional bandwidth in doing so would be 0.<br> <br>

Keep the proxy anonymous and open. This way, you keep access to SF officially locked down, but the proxy server is still going to be accessible to the rest of the world.<br> <br>

I know it won't happen, but it would be nice to see SF take the stand based on its principles as an open source community member.</htmltext>
<tokenext>SF should lease some space in their datacenter for a server or two to be used as a proxy server to some other company .
Make sure this proxy server is locked down to only offer SF - not the whole Internet .
The additional bandwidth in doing so would be 0 .
Keep the proxy anonymous and open .
This way , you keep access to SF officially locked down , but the proxy server is still going to be accessible to the rest of the world .
I know it wo n't happen , but it would be nice to see SF take the stand based on its principles as an open source community member .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>SF should lease some space in their datacenter for a server or two to be used as a proxy server to some other company.
Make sure this proxy server is locked down to only offer SF - not the whole Internet.
The additional bandwidth in doing so would be 0.
Keep the proxy anonymous and open.
This way, you keep access to SF officially locked down, but the proxy server is still going to be accessible to the rest of the world.
I know it won't happen, but it would be nice to see SF take the stand based on its principles as an open source community member.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30902028</id>
	<title>Re:How typical..</title>
	<author>aylons</author>
	<datestamp>1264506120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Because they are not asking for funds. Simple as that. Actually, they didn't even cite lack of funds as a  to not consider other solutions.<br><br>Sticking to your logic, I could say:<br><br>I don't see a single person who is complaining offering to have sex with the owners. It's not easy when your ass in the line, is it?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Because they are not asking for funds .
Simple as that .
Actually , they did n't even cite lack of funds as a to not consider other solutions.Sticking to your logic , I could say : I do n't see a single person who is complaining offering to have sex with the owners .
It 's not easy when your ass in the line , is it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because they are not asking for funds.
Simple as that.
Actually, they didn't even cite lack of funds as a  to not consider other solutions.Sticking to your logic, I could say:I don't see a single person who is complaining offering to have sex with the owners.
It's not easy when your ass in the line, is it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894470</id>
	<title>If you care, yank your projects</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264452060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you are an open source coder (as I am), and you are involved with a project on sourceforge (as I was until a couple minutes ago), just ask the principal maintainer to move it to a different site.  If they don't, stop contributing.  Or, if you really don't care, then just go on with business as usual.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you are an open source coder ( as I am ) , and you are involved with a project on sourceforge ( as I was until a couple minutes ago ) , just ask the principal maintainer to move it to a different site .
If they do n't , stop contributing .
Or , if you really do n't care , then just go on with business as usual .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you are an open source coder (as I am), and you are involved with a project on sourceforge (as I was until a couple minutes ago), just ask the principal maintainer to move it to a different site.
If they don't, stop contributing.
Or, if you really don't care, then just go on with business as usual.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894560</id>
	<title>GPL prohibits that, no?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264452360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>12. No Surrender of Others' Freedom.</p><p>If conditions are imposed on you (whether by court order, agreement or otherwise) that contradict the conditions of this License, they do not excuse you from the conditions of this License. If you cannot convey a covered work so as to satisfy simultaneously your obligations under this License and any other pertinent obligations, then as a consequence you may not convey it at all. For example, if you agree to terms that obligate you to collect a royalty for further conveying from those to whom you convey the Program, the only way you could satisfy both those terms and this License would be to refrain entirely from conveying the Program.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>12 .
No Surrender of Others ' Freedom.If conditions are imposed on you ( whether by court order , agreement or otherwise ) that contradict the conditions of this License , they do not excuse you from the conditions of this License .
If you can not convey a covered work so as to satisfy simultaneously your obligations under this License and any other pertinent obligations , then as a consequence you may not convey it at all .
For example , if you agree to terms that obligate you to collect a royalty for further conveying from those to whom you convey the Program , the only way you could satisfy both those terms and this License would be to refrain entirely from conveying the Program .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>12.
No Surrender of Others' Freedom.If conditions are imposed on you (whether by court order, agreement or otherwise) that contradict the conditions of this License, they do not excuse you from the conditions of this License.
If you cannot convey a covered work so as to satisfy simultaneously your obligations under this License and any other pertinent obligations, then as a consequence you may not convey it at all.
For example, if you agree to terms that obligate you to collect a royalty for further conveying from those to whom you convey the Program, the only way you could satisfy both those terms and this License would be to refrain entirely from conveying the Program.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30900864</id>
	<title>Mirror it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264447260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Someone just setup a mirror/proxy. Something like wearenotsourceforge.com . Big deal, move on.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Someone just setup a mirror/proxy .
Something like wearenotsourceforge.com .
Big deal , move on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Someone just setup a mirror/proxy.
Something like wearenotsourceforge.com .
Big deal, move on.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895292</id>
	<title>Who uses sourceforge anymore?</title>
	<author>DelitaTheFridge</author>
	<datestamp>1264412280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Github is where it's at.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Github is where it 's at .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Github is where it's at.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895996</id>
	<title>Re:First Amendment Violation?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264415040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because they are blocking "the enemy" outside the borders of US. US law only works in the US... politicians do however forget this detail and try to expand US laws to other countries.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because they are blocking " the enemy " outside the borders of US .
US law only works in the US... politicians do however forget this detail and try to expand US laws to other countries .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because they are blocking "the enemy" outside the borders of US.
US law only works in the US... politicians do however forget this detail and try to expand US laws to other countries.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894954</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894386</id>
	<title>Re:Failure of thought</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264451700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Doesn't this make US enemies SF.net enemies?</i> </p><p>Countries that are US Enemies are generally SF.net enemies, or should be.  The trouble is that most of the <i>inhabitants</i> of those countries aren't.</p><p>It reminds me of not allowing homosexuals to donate blood out of fear of aids.  Most homosexuals DON'T have aids, and their blood would be fine to collect; but because the group is more statistically likely to be infected, a reasonable safety regimen bans them outright.  The same reasoning applies to Iran, for instance.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does n't this make US enemies SF.net enemies ?
Countries that are US Enemies are generally SF.net enemies , or should be .
The trouble is that most of the inhabitants of those countries are n't.It reminds me of not allowing homosexuals to donate blood out of fear of aids .
Most homosexuals DO N'T have aids , and their blood would be fine to collect ; but because the group is more statistically likely to be infected , a reasonable safety regimen bans them outright .
The same reasoning applies to Iran , for instance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Doesn't this make US enemies SF.net enemies?
Countries that are US Enemies are generally SF.net enemies, or should be.
The trouble is that most of the inhabitants of those countries aren't.It reminds me of not allowing homosexuals to donate blood out of fear of aids.
Most homosexuals DON'T have aids, and their blood would be fine to collect; but because the group is more statistically likely to be infected, a reasonable safety regimen bans them outright.
The same reasoning applies to Iran, for instance.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894064</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894264</id>
	<title>Re:Failure of thought</title>
	<author>girlintraining</author>
	<datestamp>1264451160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If this rubs SF.net the wrong way so much, why do they continue to operate in the US?</p> </div><p>Because the US is where most of the internet infrastructure sits, and most of the traffic is. It's cheap to locate your servers here -- and more expensive to decentralize or put them elsewhere. It's not political -- it's technical.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If this rubs SF.net the wrong way so much , why do they continue to operate in the US ?
Because the US is where most of the internet infrastructure sits , and most of the traffic is .
It 's cheap to locate your servers here -- and more expensive to decentralize or put them elsewhere .
It 's not political -- it 's technical .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If this rubs SF.net the wrong way so much, why do they continue to operate in the US?
Because the US is where most of the internet infrastructure sits, and most of the traffic is.
It's cheap to locate your servers here -- and more expensive to decentralize or put them elsewhere.
It's not political -- it's technical.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894064</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894064</id>
	<title>Failure of thought</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264450380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If this rubs SF.net the wrong way so much, why do they continue to operate in the US? Why is SF.net specifically reinforcing their position in the US by adhering to its exclusion of US enemies? Doesn't this make US enemies SF.net enemies?</p><p>To follow hatred, you must be blind. Being blind relieves you from following the natural train of thought outlined above. I wonder which step SF.net stopped thinking at. It was probably the "there's more twinkies in the US" stage.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If this rubs SF.net the wrong way so much , why do they continue to operate in the US ?
Why is SF.net specifically reinforcing their position in the US by adhering to its exclusion of US enemies ?
Does n't this make US enemies SF.net enemies ? To follow hatred , you must be blind .
Being blind relieves you from following the natural train of thought outlined above .
I wonder which step SF.net stopped thinking at .
It was probably the " there 's more twinkies in the US " stage .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If this rubs SF.net the wrong way so much, why do they continue to operate in the US?
Why is SF.net specifically reinforcing their position in the US by adhering to its exclusion of US enemies?
Doesn't this make US enemies SF.net enemies?To follow hatred, you must be blind.
Being blind relieves you from following the natural train of thought outlined above.
I wonder which step SF.net stopped thinking at.
It was probably the "there's more twinkies in the US" stage.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895612</id>
	<title>Re:Sad but real</title>
	<author>darkmeridian</author>
	<datestamp>1264413480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You have a good point, but citing the case of John Reece Roth doesn't make a lot of sense. Prof. Roth was working on "plasma actuators" for use on US Air Force drones. They were considered military secrets. The terms of the contract he signed forbid the transfer of any sensitive data with foreign nationals. He was warned to keep these documents guarded.  He documents acknowledging that the export limitations applied, and that he was aware that the law required him to secret the data. Yet he transferred the information to people he knew were Chinese nationals. It's a pretty open and shut case to me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You have a good point , but citing the case of John Reece Roth does n't make a lot of sense .
Prof. Roth was working on " plasma actuators " for use on US Air Force drones .
They were considered military secrets .
The terms of the contract he signed forbid the transfer of any sensitive data with foreign nationals .
He was warned to keep these documents guarded .
He documents acknowledging that the export limitations applied , and that he was aware that the law required him to secret the data .
Yet he transferred the information to people he knew were Chinese nationals .
It 's a pretty open and shut case to me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You have a good point, but citing the case of John Reece Roth doesn't make a lot of sense.
Prof. Roth was working on "plasma actuators" for use on US Air Force drones.
They were considered military secrets.
The terms of the contract he signed forbid the transfer of any sensitive data with foreign nationals.
He was warned to keep these documents guarded.
He documents acknowledging that the export limitations applied, and that he was aware that the law required him to secret the data.
Yet he transferred the information to people he knew were Chinese nationals.
It's a pretty open and shut case to me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30896826</id>
	<title>Take a stand</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264417920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Umm, perhaps this is SF taking a stand.</p><p>There is a fast approaching collision on the Internet between those that believe in open and un-compromised sharing and those that believe in controlling what is published, what is read, and what human rights mean.</p><p>Google is going to loose out on a lot of business if they leave China.  Yet, based on principal. they are proposing to do just that.  Balancing the good they try to introduce with the suppression the must enforce.  Sometimes you look up and realize the scale is listing a little far to one side.</p><p>Perhaps we all should be looking up at the world around us to see if the scale is listing a little far to one side.</p><p>A number of those countries listed are there for Human rights issues....or at least \_still\_ there regardless of how they got on the list.</p><p>So perhaps SF.net is doing nothing more than showing a little support for Google.  Taking a stand and using US law as an excuse in the same way that China excuses their behavior because it is legal in China.</p><p>If you want to be outraged, fine, but point it in the correct direction.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Umm , perhaps this is SF taking a stand.There is a fast approaching collision on the Internet between those that believe in open and un-compromised sharing and those that believe in controlling what is published , what is read , and what human rights mean.Google is going to loose out on a lot of business if they leave China .
Yet , based on principal .
they are proposing to do just that .
Balancing the good they try to introduce with the suppression the must enforce .
Sometimes you look up and realize the scale is listing a little far to one side.Perhaps we all should be looking up at the world around us to see if the scale is listing a little far to one side.A number of those countries listed are there for Human rights issues....or at least \ _still \ _ there regardless of how they got on the list.So perhaps SF.net is doing nothing more than showing a little support for Google .
Taking a stand and using US law as an excuse in the same way that China excuses their behavior because it is legal in China.If you want to be outraged , fine , but point it in the correct direction .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Umm, perhaps this is SF taking a stand.There is a fast approaching collision on the Internet between those that believe in open and un-compromised sharing and those that believe in controlling what is published, what is read, and what human rights mean.Google is going to loose out on a lot of business if they leave China.
Yet, based on principal.
they are proposing to do just that.
Balancing the good they try to introduce with the suppression the must enforce.
Sometimes you look up and realize the scale is listing a little far to one side.Perhaps we all should be looking up at the world around us to see if the scale is listing a little far to one side.A number of those countries listed are there for Human rights issues....or at least \_still\_ there regardless of how they got on the list.So perhaps SF.net is doing nothing more than showing a little support for Google.
Taking a stand and using US law as an excuse in the same way that China excuses their behavior because it is legal in China.If you want to be outraged, fine, but point it in the correct direction.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30979844</id>
	<title>Re:Sad but real</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265034000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not only were there 'deemed' exports to Iranian and Chinese foreign national students in this country, but he also took stuff to China on his laptop!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not only were there 'deemed ' exports to Iranian and Chinese foreign national students in this country , but he also took stuff to China on his laptop !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not only were there 'deemed' exports to Iranian and Chinese foreign national students in this country, but he also took stuff to China on his laptop!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895612</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30900020</id>
	<title>Mirrors and proxies</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264438500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The internet is a dense, reduntant network.  It was designed to be self healing, and able to automatically route around broken connections.  The routing algorithms just work that way.  Keeping data away from a country or a group of countries, is like running to the beach, spreading your arms wide, and trying to hold the water back from the incoming tide.  The great firewall of China needs a lot of people watching over every single connection (wireless and optical too) to keep unsolicited data out.  The US isn't quite as bad as China (although I might be wrong there, the NSA is pretty weird, over-reaching, and consider themselves to be well above the law).  In general though, Good luck with that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The internet is a dense , reduntant network .
It was designed to be self healing , and able to automatically route around broken connections .
The routing algorithms just work that way .
Keeping data away from a country or a group of countries , is like running to the beach , spreading your arms wide , and trying to hold the water back from the incoming tide .
The great firewall of China needs a lot of people watching over every single connection ( wireless and optical too ) to keep unsolicited data out .
The US is n't quite as bad as China ( although I might be wrong there , the NSA is pretty weird , over-reaching , and consider themselves to be well above the law ) .
In general though , Good luck with that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The internet is a dense, reduntant network.
It was designed to be self healing, and able to automatically route around broken connections.
The routing algorithms just work that way.
Keeping data away from a country or a group of countries, is like running to the beach, spreading your arms wide, and trying to hold the water back from the incoming tide.
The great firewall of China needs a lot of people watching over every single connection (wireless and optical too) to keep unsolicited data out.
The US isn't quite as bad as China (although I might be wrong there, the NSA is pretty weird, over-reaching, and consider themselves to be well above the law).
In general though, Good luck with that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895312</id>
	<title>Re:Violation to freedoms of Free Software</title>
	<author>sloanesky</author>
	<datestamp>1264412340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As much as I agree with your sentiment, SF has to abide by the laws of the country they reside in. It doesn't matter if they agree with them or not. As a US citizen I consider the laws outdated and out of touch with today's technology but they are still the laws.</p><p>Do they respect the laws of the United States and block some people from the content hosted there or do they ignore the laws and risk having their sites shut down, blocking content to everyone? Its a bad situation overall, but SF has made the right decision and chosen the lesser of two potential.</p><p>The United States' outdated and draconian export restriction laws are the real enemy here, not SF.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As much as I agree with your sentiment , SF has to abide by the laws of the country they reside in .
It does n't matter if they agree with them or not .
As a US citizen I consider the laws outdated and out of touch with today 's technology but they are still the laws.Do they respect the laws of the United States and block some people from the content hosted there or do they ignore the laws and risk having their sites shut down , blocking content to everyone ?
Its a bad situation overall , but SF has made the right decision and chosen the lesser of two potential.The United States ' outdated and draconian export restriction laws are the real enemy here , not SF .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As much as I agree with your sentiment, SF has to abide by the laws of the country they reside in.
It doesn't matter if they agree with them or not.
As a US citizen I consider the laws outdated and out of touch with today's technology but they are still the laws.Do they respect the laws of the United States and block some people from the content hosted there or do they ignore the laws and risk having their sites shut down, blocking content to everyone?
Its a bad situation overall, but SF has made the right decision and chosen the lesser of two potential.The United States' outdated and draconian export restriction laws are the real enemy here, not SF.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894344</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30908632</id>
	<title>Re:Political Asylum</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264537980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Europe the land of the Real Free"</p><p>I live in Europe and I laugh in your general direction.</p><p>Seriously, the EU is one of the most anti-democratic institutions in existence. Its prime purpose is to pass laws that no national government could get past its people. It's a corrupt abomination.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Europe the land of the Real Free " I live in Europe and I laugh in your general direction.Seriously , the EU is one of the most anti-democratic institutions in existence .
Its prime purpose is to pass laws that no national government could get past its people .
It 's a corrupt abomination .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Europe the land of the Real Free"I live in Europe and I laugh in your general direction.Seriously, the EU is one of the most anti-democratic institutions in existence.
Its prime purpose is to pass laws that no national government could get past its people.
It's a corrupt abomination.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894372</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895170</id>
	<title>Re:Political Asylum</title>
	<author>Angst Badger</author>
	<datestamp>1264411680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You should seek political asylum in Europe the land of the Real Free. Not bound by legal enslavement or crooked intelligence agencies, yet.</p></div><p>It's definitely a possibility, as day by day, "stand and fight" becomes less and less realistic.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You should seek political asylum in Europe the land of the Real Free .
Not bound by legal enslavement or crooked intelligence agencies , yet.It 's definitely a possibility , as day by day , " stand and fight " becomes less and less realistic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You should seek political asylum in Europe the land of the Real Free.
Not bound by legal enslavement or crooked intelligence agencies, yet.It's definitely a possibility, as day by day, "stand and fight" becomes less and less realistic.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894372</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894762</id>
	<title>Noobs.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264410060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ah well, countries who cannot now access SF.net will use rapidshare and other file sharing sites to get their open source software. Which also increases their risk of becoming a botnet server, which in turn gives the botmasters more power.</p><p>Thanks for making their lives easier.</p><p>I wish there way a way to fight back against US's crazy laws.<br>Ah wait I better stop there before I get put on the watchlist and banned</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ah well , countries who can not now access SF.net will use rapidshare and other file sharing sites to get their open source software .
Which also increases their risk of becoming a botnet server , which in turn gives the botmasters more power.Thanks for making their lives easier.I wish there way a way to fight back against US 's crazy laws.Ah wait I better stop there before I get put on the watchlist and banned</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ah well, countries who cannot now access SF.net will use rapidshare and other file sharing sites to get their open source software.
Which also increases their risk of becoming a botnet server, which in turn gives the botmasters more power.Thanks for making their lives easier.I wish there way a way to fight back against US's crazy laws.Ah wait I better stop there before I get put on the watchlist and banned</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894776</id>
	<title>Google stops 'playing ball' with China...</title>
	<author>mmell</author>
	<datestamp>1264410120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://it.slashdot.org/story/10/01/25/167208/Chinese-Human-Rights-Orgs-Hit-By-DDoS" title="slashdot.org">http://it.slashdot.org/story/10/01/25/167208/Chinese-Human-Rights-Orgs-Hit-By-DDoS</a> [slashdot.org] <p>
Anybody but me see a correlation here?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //it.slashdot.org/story/10/01/25/167208/Chinese-Human-Rights-Orgs-Hit-By-DDoS [ slashdot.org ] Anybody but me see a correlation here ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://it.slashdot.org/story/10/01/25/167208/Chinese-Human-Rights-Orgs-Hit-By-DDoS [slashdot.org] 
Anybody but me see a correlation here?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30899344</id>
	<title>How can I ...</title>
	<author>Skapare</author>
	<datestamp>1264432320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... also block all the people on the list?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... also block all the people on the list ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... also block all the people on the list?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30897582</id>
	<title>Re:Violation to freedoms of Free Software</title>
	<author>dissy</author>
	<datestamp>1264421760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It doesn't make any sense. SF.net DID NOT create these projects.</p></div><p>PGP was not created in the US either, but was one of the major victoms of this law.</p><p>It was legal for someone in the US to download it from DE, but illegal for that same person to put it up for download without restrictions, and if that exact same person in DE downloaded it from the US, the person in the US is going to jail.</p><p>So no, SF did not create any of those projects, nor are they all USA technology.  You are correct in that point.</p><p>You are incorrect in that point matters at all.  The law doesn't make any such distinction.</p><p>So basically you are calling SF cowardly because they don't want to be sent to prison and killed by the guards.<br>Lovely.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It does n't make any sense .
SF.net DID NOT create these projects.PGP was not created in the US either , but was one of the major victoms of this law.It was legal for someone in the US to download it from DE , but illegal for that same person to put it up for download without restrictions , and if that exact same person in DE downloaded it from the US , the person in the US is going to jail.So no , SF did not create any of those projects , nor are they all USA technology .
You are correct in that point.You are incorrect in that point matters at all .
The law does n't make any such distinction.So basically you are calling SF cowardly because they do n't want to be sent to prison and killed by the guards.Lovely .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It doesn't make any sense.
SF.net DID NOT create these projects.PGP was not created in the US either, but was one of the major victoms of this law.It was legal for someone in the US to download it from DE, but illegal for that same person to put it up for download without restrictions, and if that exact same person in DE downloaded it from the US, the person in the US is going to jail.So no, SF did not create any of those projects, nor are they all USA technology.
You are correct in that point.You are incorrect in that point matters at all.
The law doesn't make any such distinction.So basically you are calling SF cowardly because they don't want to be sent to prison and killed by the guards.Lovely.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894344</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895070</id>
	<title>Re:Violation to freedoms of Free Software</title>
	<author>marcansoft</author>
	<datestamp>1264411200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The freedoms of Free Software apply to licenses, not people or entities. This isn't a violation of any open source license as far as I'm aware. Roughly speaking, licenses will require either nothing in this regard (BSD doesn't force you to give away the code or binaries to anyone at all), or distribution of source code to people who receive binaries (GPL and the like). SourceForge isn't doing this, they're just refusing to distribute anything at all to these countries. This also has nothing to do with the software itself, just the act of hosting it. It's about the service, not the good. No one is preventing you from accessing your own work, just from accessing it through SourceForge's service (servers). Just have someone in a neutral country get it for you; this is perfectly legit and I bet even encouraged by SF.</p><p>The licenses <b>themselves</b> cannot include these kinds of limitations (if a licence says you can't run the program if you're North Korean, then it isn't an open source license, and this is what Freedom 5 is all about), but they do not require that users have this kind of openness. In fact, it is unnecessary: since the license lets you redistribute the program, all it takes is a third party to proxy between a restrictive distributor and the destination that he wants to avoid.</p><p>You can disagree with SF's take on the subject, but they aren't violating any licenses. If they did export to restricted countries, they would be violating local law. Given the availability of proxies and the like, it would be a questionably useful move. So the US government wants to annoy you; work around it and complain about the US government all you want (and rightly so), but don't blame the people who are just following the law.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The freedoms of Free Software apply to licenses , not people or entities .
This is n't a violation of any open source license as far as I 'm aware .
Roughly speaking , licenses will require either nothing in this regard ( BSD does n't force you to give away the code or binaries to anyone at all ) , or distribution of source code to people who receive binaries ( GPL and the like ) .
SourceForge is n't doing this , they 're just refusing to distribute anything at all to these countries .
This also has nothing to do with the software itself , just the act of hosting it .
It 's about the service , not the good .
No one is preventing you from accessing your own work , just from accessing it through SourceForge 's service ( servers ) .
Just have someone in a neutral country get it for you ; this is perfectly legit and I bet even encouraged by SF.The licenses themselves can not include these kinds of limitations ( if a licence says you ca n't run the program if you 're North Korean , then it is n't an open source license , and this is what Freedom 5 is all about ) , but they do not require that users have this kind of openness .
In fact , it is unnecessary : since the license lets you redistribute the program , all it takes is a third party to proxy between a restrictive distributor and the destination that he wants to avoid.You can disagree with SF 's take on the subject , but they are n't violating any licenses .
If they did export to restricted countries , they would be violating local law .
Given the availability of proxies and the like , it would be a questionably useful move .
So the US government wants to annoy you ; work around it and complain about the US government all you want ( and rightly so ) , but do n't blame the people who are just following the law .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The freedoms of Free Software apply to licenses, not people or entities.
This isn't a violation of any open source license as far as I'm aware.
Roughly speaking, licenses will require either nothing in this regard (BSD doesn't force you to give away the code or binaries to anyone at all), or distribution of source code to people who receive binaries (GPL and the like).
SourceForge isn't doing this, they're just refusing to distribute anything at all to these countries.
This also has nothing to do with the software itself, just the act of hosting it.
It's about the service, not the good.
No one is preventing you from accessing your own work, just from accessing it through SourceForge's service (servers).
Just have someone in a neutral country get it for you; this is perfectly legit and I bet even encouraged by SF.The licenses themselves cannot include these kinds of limitations (if a licence says you can't run the program if you're North Korean, then it isn't an open source license, and this is what Freedom 5 is all about), but they do not require that users have this kind of openness.
In fact, it is unnecessary: since the license lets you redistribute the program, all it takes is a third party to proxy between a restrictive distributor and the destination that he wants to avoid.You can disagree with SF's take on the subject, but they aren't violating any licenses.
If they did export to restricted countries, they would be violating local law.
Given the availability of proxies and the like, it would be a questionably useful move.
So the US government wants to annoy you; work around it and complain about the US government all you want (and rightly so), but don't blame the people who are just following the law.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894344</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30896050</id>
	<title>Re:Syria Supports Hezbollah</title>
	<author>neo00</author>
	<datestamp>1264415220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Can you remind me when was the last time the US was attacked by a Syrian terrorist? How come Syria sponsors terrorism but Saudi Arabia does not?<br>  <a href="http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/" title="loonwatch.com" rel="nofollow"> Here are some interesting numbers your government doesn't want you to know</a> [loonwatch.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Can you remind me when was the last time the US was attacked by a Syrian terrorist ?
How come Syria sponsors terrorism but Saudi Arabia does not ?
Here are some interesting numbers your government does n't want you to know [ loonwatch.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can you remind me when was the last time the US was attacked by a Syrian terrorist?
How come Syria sponsors terrorism but Saudi Arabia does not?
Here are some interesting numbers your government doesn't want you to know [loonwatch.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30894910</parent>
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-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895338
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895568
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895398
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-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895612
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30979844
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30898506
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-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_25_1854241.30895772
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