<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_01_23_177206</id>
	<title>Rockstar Employees Badly Overworked, Say Wives</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1264270500000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>juicegg writes <i>"Wives of <a href="http://www.rockstargames.com/">Rockstar Games</a> employees in San Diego recently published an open letter on their Gamasutra blog. The authors say that Rockstar employees are <a href="http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RockstarSpouse/20100107/4032/Wives\_of\_Rockstar\_San\_Diego\_employees\_have\_collected\_themselves.php">seriously strained by unending crunch periods</a> of 12-hour work days and 6-day weeks. High levels of stress are leading to serious psychological and physical problems for some of the employees. They charge that studio management uses arbitrary, deceptive and manipulative practices to get employees to work more unpaid overtime hours at greater intensity &mdash; despite over $1 billion in <em>Grand Theft Auto</em> revenue. Among the blog comments, some current and past Rockstar employees are confirming problems with the studio. 'Ex Rocker' writes: 'What makes R* crunch periods different then any other studio is that they tell you the game has to be finished in 6 months, so let's start our final push to get this awesome game out there! 6 months turns into 1 year, 1 year turns into 2.' Other comments reveal worker hopelessness and general mismanagement at the San Diego studio. This turmoil is <a href="http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6246424.html">affecting development</a> on <a href="http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6245225.html">upcoming games</a> as well."</i>
Read on for responses from Rockstar itself and other members of the industry.</htmltext>
<tokenext>juicegg writes " Wives of Rockstar Games employees in San Diego recently published an open letter on their Gamasutra blog .
The authors say that Rockstar employees are seriously strained by unending crunch periods of 12-hour work days and 6-day weeks .
High levels of stress are leading to serious psychological and physical problems for some of the employees .
They charge that studio management uses arbitrary , deceptive and manipulative practices to get employees to work more unpaid overtime hours at greater intensity    despite over $ 1 billion in Grand Theft Auto revenue .
Among the blog comments , some current and past Rockstar employees are confirming problems with the studio .
'Ex Rocker ' writes : 'What makes R * crunch periods different then any other studio is that they tell you the game has to be finished in 6 months , so let 's start our final push to get this awesome game out there !
6 months turns into 1 year , 1 year turns into 2 .
' Other comments reveal worker hopelessness and general mismanagement at the San Diego studio .
This turmoil is affecting development on upcoming games as well .
" Read on for responses from Rockstar itself and other members of the industry .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>juicegg writes "Wives of Rockstar Games employees in San Diego recently published an open letter on their Gamasutra blog.
The authors say that Rockstar employees are seriously strained by unending crunch periods of 12-hour work days and 6-day weeks.
High levels of stress are leading to serious psychological and physical problems for some of the employees.
They charge that studio management uses arbitrary, deceptive and manipulative practices to get employees to work more unpaid overtime hours at greater intensity — despite over $1 billion in Grand Theft Auto revenue.
Among the blog comments, some current and past Rockstar employees are confirming problems with the studio.
'Ex Rocker' writes: 'What makes R* crunch periods different then any other studio is that they tell you the game has to be finished in 6 months, so let's start our final push to get this awesome game out there!
6 months turns into 1 year, 1 year turns into 2.
' Other comments reveal worker hopelessness and general mismanagement at the San Diego studio.
This turmoil is affecting development on upcoming games as well.
"
Read on for responses from Rockstar itself and other members of the industry.</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30882954</id>
	<title>Whiner babies</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264332420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So what.  What a bunch of whiner CRY BABIES!  If you can't compete it's YOUR FAULT.  I will hire an H1b that will WORK FOR 90 HOURS A WEEK at MINIMUM WAGE. So stop complaining, nerds.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So what .
What a bunch of whiner CRY BABIES !
If you ca n't compete it 's YOUR FAULT .
I will hire an H1b that will WORK FOR 90 HOURS A WEEK at MINIMUM WAGE .
So stop complaining , nerds .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So what.
What a bunch of whiner CRY BABIES!
If you can't compete it's YOUR FAULT.
I will hire an H1b that will WORK FOR 90 HOURS A WEEK at MINIMUM WAGE.
So stop complaining, nerds.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30877274</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264335120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"The problem then comes in that management sees the amount of work that gets done in a crunch and says "Man, we could get so much done if we worked like that ALL THE TIME!" Of course there are tons of problems with this that are easy to see, but they ignore that."</p><p>I've heard of this happening with management for an accounts dept. Talk about stupid. In this case, it meant less employees at end of month to do the crunch work - until of course it just got unworkable. Cue serious issues due to backlog in accounts. In this case this was just one symptom of a very broken approach to the entire operation of the company. I can't really even highlight the line of work, but lets just say the ordinary plebs that were customers (i.e. people on the street - not corporate customers) got to experience firsthand the results of this. Unfortunately the company had a fixed contract for providing "services" so people could only manage a certain amount of boycott (the losses from which only encouraged the company to be even more outrageous).</p><p>The inherent problem is that capitalism doesn't work without strong regulation. You can argue that those abusing it will end up crashing and burning and everything will sort itself out in a fashion akin to the natural world or something, but a) this can take a while to happen, b) this causes misery during the process, c) it may not happen, d) as we've seen, there can be huge reprecussions to such crash+burns.</p><p>The only answer is to force people to play nice. Obviously this has many problems too, but there has been ample history to draw on in avoiding bad regulation, and of course we do have the advantage that governments can be thrown out (admittedly more so in some countries than others). Also here in Europe, the European Union performs as a sort of collaboration for governments to all have input into regulation, plus there is strong influence from better run countries like Germany and the Nordic countries. Unfortunately the UK also has a lot of influence, but fortunately less so now that people see how broken their model is (only good for short-term advantage). The other problem, which we have here in Ireland, is even ordinary people objecting to having to play nice (or do things "properly"). Particularly absurd given that regulation is only half-effective in this country (lack of enforcement, or more particularly, inability to deal with such widescale flouting of it) and those determined to ignore them can usually get away with it (and certainly at the time). However, we also have the problem in Ireland of people managing to get *official* leeway to ignore regulation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" The problem then comes in that management sees the amount of work that gets done in a crunch and says " Man , we could get so much done if we worked like that ALL THE TIME !
" Of course there are tons of problems with this that are easy to see , but they ignore that .
" I 've heard of this happening with management for an accounts dept .
Talk about stupid .
In this case , it meant less employees at end of month to do the crunch work - until of course it just got unworkable .
Cue serious issues due to backlog in accounts .
In this case this was just one symptom of a very broken approach to the entire operation of the company .
I ca n't really even highlight the line of work , but lets just say the ordinary plebs that were customers ( i.e .
people on the street - not corporate customers ) got to experience firsthand the results of this .
Unfortunately the company had a fixed contract for providing " services " so people could only manage a certain amount of boycott ( the losses from which only encouraged the company to be even more outrageous ) .The inherent problem is that capitalism does n't work without strong regulation .
You can argue that those abusing it will end up crashing and burning and everything will sort itself out in a fashion akin to the natural world or something , but a ) this can take a while to happen , b ) this causes misery during the process , c ) it may not happen , d ) as we 've seen , there can be huge reprecussions to such crash + burns.The only answer is to force people to play nice .
Obviously this has many problems too , but there has been ample history to draw on in avoiding bad regulation , and of course we do have the advantage that governments can be thrown out ( admittedly more so in some countries than others ) .
Also here in Europe , the European Union performs as a sort of collaboration for governments to all have input into regulation , plus there is strong influence from better run countries like Germany and the Nordic countries .
Unfortunately the UK also has a lot of influence , but fortunately less so now that people see how broken their model is ( only good for short-term advantage ) .
The other problem , which we have here in Ireland , is even ordinary people objecting to having to play nice ( or do things " properly " ) .
Particularly absurd given that regulation is only half-effective in this country ( lack of enforcement , or more particularly , inability to deal with such widescale flouting of it ) and those determined to ignore them can usually get away with it ( and certainly at the time ) .
However , we also have the problem in Ireland of people managing to get * official * leeway to ignore regulation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"The problem then comes in that management sees the amount of work that gets done in a crunch and says "Man, we could get so much done if we worked like that ALL THE TIME!
" Of course there are tons of problems with this that are easy to see, but they ignore that.
"I've heard of this happening with management for an accounts dept.
Talk about stupid.
In this case, it meant less employees at end of month to do the crunch work - until of course it just got unworkable.
Cue serious issues due to backlog in accounts.
In this case this was just one symptom of a very broken approach to the entire operation of the company.
I can't really even highlight the line of work, but lets just say the ordinary plebs that were customers (i.e.
people on the street - not corporate customers) got to experience firsthand the results of this.
Unfortunately the company had a fixed contract for providing "services" so people could only manage a certain amount of boycott (the losses from which only encouraged the company to be even more outrageous).The inherent problem is that capitalism doesn't work without strong regulation.
You can argue that those abusing it will end up crashing and burning and everything will sort itself out in a fashion akin to the natural world or something, but a) this can take a while to happen, b) this causes misery during the process, c) it may not happen, d) as we've seen, there can be huge reprecussions to such crash+burns.The only answer is to force people to play nice.
Obviously this has many problems too, but there has been ample history to draw on in avoiding bad regulation, and of course we do have the advantage that governments can be thrown out (admittedly more so in some countries than others).
Also here in Europe, the European Union performs as a sort of collaboration for governments to all have input into regulation, plus there is strong influence from better run countries like Germany and the Nordic countries.
Unfortunately the UK also has a lot of influence, but fortunately less so now that people see how broken their model is (only good for short-term advantage).
The other problem, which we have here in Ireland, is even ordinary people objecting to having to play nice (or do things "properly").
Particularly absurd given that regulation is only half-effective in this country (lack of enforcement, or more particularly, inability to deal with such widescale flouting of it) and those determined to ignore them can usually get away with it (and certainly at the time).
However, we also have the problem in Ireland of people managing to get *official* leeway to ignore regulation.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871790</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871112</id>
	<title>Project management...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264275060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd suggest crunches are a symptom of bad project management, but there is apparently no project management in the first place.  So it's simply incompetent, panic-driven management.  Industry-standard, really.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd suggest crunches are a symptom of bad project management , but there is apparently no project management in the first place .
So it 's simply incompetent , panic-driven management .
Industry-standard , really .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd suggest crunches are a symptom of bad project management, but there is apparently no project management in the first place.
So it's simply incompetent, panic-driven management.
Industry-standard, really.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871366</id>
	<title>Re:Easy problem to solve</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264276680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Only one of those over stressed people would need to report that to the DOJ.  The laws on over time pay are laid out pretty clear, and this if true is not at all legal.</p><p>The employee that reports it is guaranteed to get 300\% of the income they legally are entitled to, as will all the others that come out in the DOJ investigation who wish to join.</p><p>Then there will be tons of fines towards the company measuring in the tens of millions of dollars.</p><p>I always love to see the excuses why particular members of management are allowed to remain on the payroll after costing the company tens of millions of dollars in illegal activities.</p><p>Unless the employees do not wish to start legal action.  Which means there is no problem at all.</p></div><p>Unfortunately this will not help. These employees are considered "Exempt" to overtime compensation laws according to the FLSA (IANL) just look up "Exemption for computer-related occupations under the FSLA", they meet all the required criteria. It's sad and unfair, but it's the law. Likely pushed through by a lawmaker owned by a group of software companies.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Only one of those over stressed people would need to report that to the DOJ .
The laws on over time pay are laid out pretty clear , and this if true is not at all legal.The employee that reports it is guaranteed to get 300 \ % of the income they legally are entitled to , as will all the others that come out in the DOJ investigation who wish to join.Then there will be tons of fines towards the company measuring in the tens of millions of dollars.I always love to see the excuses why particular members of management are allowed to remain on the payroll after costing the company tens of millions of dollars in illegal activities.Unless the employees do not wish to start legal action .
Which means there is no problem at all.Unfortunately this will not help .
These employees are considered " Exempt " to overtime compensation laws according to the FLSA ( IANL ) just look up " Exemption for computer-related occupations under the FSLA " , they meet all the required criteria .
It 's sad and unfair , but it 's the law .
Likely pushed through by a lawmaker owned by a group of software companies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Only one of those over stressed people would need to report that to the DOJ.
The laws on over time pay are laid out pretty clear, and this if true is not at all legal.The employee that reports it is guaranteed to get 300\% of the income they legally are entitled to, as will all the others that come out in the DOJ investigation who wish to join.Then there will be tons of fines towards the company measuring in the tens of millions of dollars.I always love to see the excuses why particular members of management are allowed to remain on the payroll after costing the company tens of millions of dollars in illegal activities.Unless the employees do not wish to start legal action.
Which means there is no problem at all.Unfortunately this will not help.
These employees are considered "Exempt" to overtime compensation laws according to the FLSA (IANL) just look up "Exemption for computer-related occupations under the FSLA", they meet all the required criteria.
It's sad and unfair, but it's the law.
Likely pushed through by a lawmaker owned by a group of software companies.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871120</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871614</id>
	<title>quit</title>
	<author>vacarul</author>
	<datestamp>1264278180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I used to work for a company where stress level was high. I did it for money, for 4 years. When that problem was solved I quit. Your body and mind it's like a car: if you abuse it, it will start to fail.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to work for a company where stress level was high .
I did it for money , for 4 years .
When that problem was solved I quit .
Your body and mind it 's like a car : if you abuse it , it will start to fail .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to work for a company where stress level was high.
I did it for money, for 4 years.
When that problem was solved I quit.
Your body and mind it's like a car: if you abuse it, it will start to fail.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871694</id>
	<title>Re:Welcome to Capitalism</title>
	<author>Afforess</author>
	<datestamp>1264278660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Advocating Unions does not make you anti-capitalist. Unions developed largely in response to situations like in the OP. There are nothing wrong with Unions. <br> <br>Government Regulation on the other hand, well, we all know how good a job the government is on that... I'd rather trust myself to a union than a government that changes it's tune every election.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Advocating Unions does not make you anti-capitalist .
Unions developed largely in response to situations like in the OP .
There are nothing wrong with Unions .
Government Regulation on the other hand , well , we all know how good a job the government is on that... I 'd rather trust myself to a union than a government that changes it 's tune every election .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Advocating Unions does not make you anti-capitalist.
Unions developed largely in response to situations like in the OP.
There are nothing wrong with Unions.
Government Regulation on the other hand, well, we all know how good a job the government is on that... I'd rather trust myself to a union than a government that changes it's tune every election.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30874102</id>
	<title>How is game management different?</title>
	<author>Opportunist</author>
	<datestamp>1264253820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I mean, I guess we're all in agreement here that it's crappy management who is to blame for crunch time. At least I have never seen any good reason for crunch except management with unrealistic ideas of time tables and schedules. But why is it so apeshit bad in game dev? Sure, everyone had his share of crunch, but I can't remember it being as bad anywhere else. Permanent crunch is definitly neither known in database engineering, not even in malware defense (where it can be quite crunchy at times, if something new hits the fan).</p><p>Don't come with "but technology develops so quickly, you have to get your game out before the technology is obsolete". I know technology moves quickly, but it moves even faster in the malware biz. You have to learn new tricks on a weekly base. And still, crunch in the excess of 70 hours is rare and definitly nothing that becomes the standard for half a year or longer. Don't tell me a new set of DirectX fads every other year is worse.</p><p>And yes, I'm also aware that there are special times in a year when games HAVE to be finished. But that would probably warrant crunch in October/November to get the game done for Christmas. Not throughout the year.</p><p>So what is it? What makes game development a permanent crunch?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I mean , I guess we 're all in agreement here that it 's crappy management who is to blame for crunch time .
At least I have never seen any good reason for crunch except management with unrealistic ideas of time tables and schedules .
But why is it so apeshit bad in game dev ?
Sure , everyone had his share of crunch , but I ca n't remember it being as bad anywhere else .
Permanent crunch is definitly neither known in database engineering , not even in malware defense ( where it can be quite crunchy at times , if something new hits the fan ) .Do n't come with " but technology develops so quickly , you have to get your game out before the technology is obsolete " .
I know technology moves quickly , but it moves even faster in the malware biz .
You have to learn new tricks on a weekly base .
And still , crunch in the excess of 70 hours is rare and definitly nothing that becomes the standard for half a year or longer .
Do n't tell me a new set of DirectX fads every other year is worse.And yes , I 'm also aware that there are special times in a year when games HAVE to be finished .
But that would probably warrant crunch in October/November to get the game done for Christmas .
Not throughout the year.So what is it ?
What makes game development a permanent crunch ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I mean, I guess we're all in agreement here that it's crappy management who is to blame for crunch time.
At least I have never seen any good reason for crunch except management with unrealistic ideas of time tables and schedules.
But why is it so apeshit bad in game dev?
Sure, everyone had his share of crunch, but I can't remember it being as bad anywhere else.
Permanent crunch is definitly neither known in database engineering, not even in malware defense (where it can be quite crunchy at times, if something new hits the fan).Don't come with "but technology develops so quickly, you have to get your game out before the technology is obsolete".
I know technology moves quickly, but it moves even faster in the malware biz.
You have to learn new tricks on a weekly base.
And still, crunch in the excess of 70 hours is rare and definitly nothing that becomes the standard for half a year or longer.
Don't tell me a new set of DirectX fads every other year is worse.And yes, I'm also aware that there are special times in a year when games HAVE to be finished.
But that would probably warrant crunch in October/November to get the game done for Christmas.
Not throughout the year.So what is it?
What makes game development a permanent crunch?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30875026</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264262280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When was the last time someone who wasn't rich gave you a job that wasn't minimum wadge?  When was the last time the labor union said "yaknow what, you're worthless.  Get out" to someone who genuinely was worthless?</p><p>There are reasons why we need rich people to be taxed less, and don't need labor unions as an albatross on their necks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When was the last time someone who was n't rich gave you a job that was n't minimum wadge ?
When was the last time the labor union said " yaknow what , you 're worthless .
Get out " to someone who genuinely was worthless ? There are reasons why we need rich people to be taxed less , and do n't need labor unions as an albatross on their necks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When was the last time someone who wasn't rich gave you a job that wasn't minimum wadge?
When was the last time the labor union said "yaknow what, you're worthless.
Get out" to someone who genuinely was worthless?There are reasons why we need rich people to be taxed less, and don't need labor unions as an albatross on their necks.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872800</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30876400</id>
	<title>Re:Union, Yes!</title>
	<author>sitarlo</author>
	<datestamp>1264276680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Programming can be easily outsourced so it will never be unionized.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Programming can be easily outsourced so it will never be unionized .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Programming can be easily outsourced so it will never be unionized.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871130</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30874126</id>
	<title>This just in: working for game companies sucks</title>
	<author>mad.frog</author>
	<datestamp>1264254120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>May I remind you of Electronic Arts:</p><p><a href="http://ea-spouse.livejournal.com/" title="livejournal.com">http://ea-spouse.livejournal.com/</a> [livejournal.com]</p><p>I worked there during that time, it's all true. The truism here is that too many young coders think that writing games is "cool", so they'll put up with bullshit to do it... while the company (correctly) figures that they can burn 'em out with no worries, as there's always more young talent eager to take their place.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>May I remind you of Electronic Arts : http : //ea-spouse.livejournal.com/ [ livejournal.com ] I worked there during that time , it 's all true .
The truism here is that too many young coders think that writing games is " cool " , so they 'll put up with bullshit to do it... while the company ( correctly ) figures that they can burn 'em out with no worries , as there 's always more young talent eager to take their place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>May I remind you of Electronic Arts:http://ea-spouse.livejournal.com/ [livejournal.com]I worked there during that time, it's all true.
The truism here is that too many young coders think that writing games is "cool", so they'll put up with bullshit to do it... while the company (correctly) figures that they can burn 'em out with no worries, as there's always more young talent eager to take their place.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30874790</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>Arccot</author>
	<datestamp>1264260480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><blockquote><div><p>Look, the game industry has been run this way for the better part of thirty years.</p></div></blockquote><p>Not just the game industry.  I'm betting everybody who's reading this who has a job is working longer hours under worsening conditions.</p></div><p>I've found a pretty effective way to avoid getting hired for positions under these conditions. When you go in for a face-to-face interview, look around a bit. Are people relaxed? Do they greet each other? Actually smile? Or does the guy who is interviewing you look like he'll go postal with one more thing going wrong?</p><p>It sounds simple, but it's really quite effective. And I rarely see anyone coming in for an interview actually take the time to figure out if it's a place they would like to work.</p><p>Also, ASK about extra hours. Begin setting limits even before the interview is over. "There are, unfortunately, a few companies out there that do set unreasonable time requirements for coders. Certainly, it's occasionally necessary to do so when a deadline isn't met or some problems come up. *Smile* So I always ask, over the last year, roughly how often have you needed a developer to stay late or work weekends?" Follow up with something like: "That's good to hear. I've seen too many developers burn out young or produce less than stellar code because they couldn't handle their workload. I want to be a developer for quite a long time to come. *Smile*" A good manager will understand its an astute question, and you'll stand out. A bad one will misunderstand and you won't get called back, no matter the answer.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Look , the game industry has been run this way for the better part of thirty years.Not just the game industry .
I 'm betting everybody who 's reading this who has a job is working longer hours under worsening conditions.I 've found a pretty effective way to avoid getting hired for positions under these conditions .
When you go in for a face-to-face interview , look around a bit .
Are people relaxed ?
Do they greet each other ?
Actually smile ?
Or does the guy who is interviewing you look like he 'll go postal with one more thing going wrong ? It sounds simple , but it 's really quite effective .
And I rarely see anyone coming in for an interview actually take the time to figure out if it 's a place they would like to work.Also , ASK about extra hours .
Begin setting limits even before the interview is over .
" There are , unfortunately , a few companies out there that do set unreasonable time requirements for coders .
Certainly , it 's occasionally necessary to do so when a deadline is n't met or some problems come up .
* Smile * So I always ask , over the last year , roughly how often have you needed a developer to stay late or work weekends ?
" Follow up with something like : " That 's good to hear .
I 've seen too many developers burn out young or produce less than stellar code because they could n't handle their workload .
I want to be a developer for quite a long time to come .
* Smile * " A good manager will understand its an astute question , and you 'll stand out .
A bad one will misunderstand and you wo n't get called back , no matter the answer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look, the game industry has been run this way for the better part of thirty years.Not just the game industry.
I'm betting everybody who's reading this who has a job is working longer hours under worsening conditions.I've found a pretty effective way to avoid getting hired for positions under these conditions.
When you go in for a face-to-face interview, look around a bit.
Are people relaxed?
Do they greet each other?
Actually smile?
Or does the guy who is interviewing you look like he'll go postal with one more thing going wrong?It sounds simple, but it's really quite effective.
And I rarely see anyone coming in for an interview actually take the time to figure out if it's a place they would like to work.Also, ASK about extra hours.
Begin setting limits even before the interview is over.
"There are, unfortunately, a few companies out there that do set unreasonable time requirements for coders.
Certainly, it's occasionally necessary to do so when a deadline isn't met or some problems come up.
*Smile* So I always ask, over the last year, roughly how often have you needed a developer to stay late or work weekends?
" Follow up with something like: "That's good to hear.
I've seen too many developers burn out young or produce less than stellar code because they couldn't handle their workload.
I want to be a developer for quite a long time to come.
*Smile*" A good manager will understand its an astute question, and you'll stand out.
A bad one will misunderstand and you won't get called back, no matter the answer.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872800</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873684</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>tclgeek</author>
	<datestamp>1264249980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"I'm betting everybody who's reading this who has a job is working longer hours under worsening conditions."

You'd lose the bet. I've had half a dozen jobs over a couple decades or so and never had to work crazy hours for more than a handful of days at a stretch. My benefits today are better than they ever have been. There are many sides to the industry and not all of them are bad.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" I 'm betting everybody who 's reading this who has a job is working longer hours under worsening conditions .
" You 'd lose the bet .
I 've had half a dozen jobs over a couple decades or so and never had to work crazy hours for more than a handful of days at a stretch .
My benefits today are better than they ever have been .
There are many sides to the industry and not all of them are bad .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"I'm betting everybody who's reading this who has a job is working longer hours under worsening conditions.
"

You'd lose the bet.
I've had half a dozen jobs over a couple decades or so and never had to work crazy hours for more than a handful of days at a stretch.
My benefits today are better than they ever have been.
There are many sides to the industry and not all of them are bad.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872800</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871222</id>
	<title>Semiconductor industry the same...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264275720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Same for me as an EEE in the semiconductor industry.</p><p>60-70 hour weeks are common.</p><p>Some life.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Same for me as an EEE in the semiconductor industry.60-70 hour weeks are common.Some life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Same for me as an EEE in the semiconductor industry.60-70 hour weeks are common.Some life.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871302</id>
	<title>so why is Rockstar losing money?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264276260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Take Two the parent company is losing money for 2009. a lot of money. revenues are down and there is a big loss for the year. and the company is burning a lot of cash. at the current burn rate there is a good chance of Chapter 11 in 2010.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Take Two the parent company is losing money for 2009. a lot of money .
revenues are down and there is a big loss for the year .
and the company is burning a lot of cash .
at the current burn rate there is a good chance of Chapter 11 in 2010 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Take Two the parent company is losing money for 2009. a lot of money.
revenues are down and there is a big loss for the year.
and the company is burning a lot of cash.
at the current burn rate there is a good chance of Chapter 11 in 2010.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30874618</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264258620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's not accidental that Germany, which is one of the countries where organized labor and labor protection laws are the strongest, is also the number one exporting/manufacturing country, with exports valued at about 300\% of China's.</p></div><p>Not accidental, and apparently not even true...</p><p>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100110/ap\_on\_bi\_ge/as\_china\_trade</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Remember this the next time someone tries to tell you that labor unions and taxes on the rich are bad for the economy and jobs.</p></div><p>You have it backwards. The unions expanded because of economic growth. Economic growth lulled industry into complacency, thinking that this was how it was always going to be, so they allowed unions a lot of free rein. The pension and healthcare deals the unions got in the 50s and 60s became ruinous burdens for the car companies later when all those workers retired.</p><p>Look at each state in the U.S. and you will find that the ones with the lowest percentage of organized labor (right-to-work states) are also the ones that are in best economic and employment shape, relatively speaking, and are destinations for business to expand and set up shop. Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, Pittsburgh are all gradually being abandoned, while Texas is leading the nation in population growth, even ahead of California.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not accidental that Germany , which is one of the countries where organized labor and labor protection laws are the strongest , is also the number one exporting/manufacturing country , with exports valued at about 300 \ % of China 's.Not accidental , and apparently not even true...http : //news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100110/ap \ _on \ _bi \ _ge/as \ _china \ _tradeRemember this the next time someone tries to tell you that labor unions and taxes on the rich are bad for the economy and jobs.You have it backwards .
The unions expanded because of economic growth .
Economic growth lulled industry into complacency , thinking that this was how it was always going to be , so they allowed unions a lot of free rein .
The pension and healthcare deals the unions got in the 50s and 60s became ruinous burdens for the car companies later when all those workers retired.Look at each state in the U.S. and you will find that the ones with the lowest percentage of organized labor ( right-to-work states ) are also the ones that are in best economic and employment shape , relatively speaking , and are destinations for business to expand and set up shop .
Detroit , Cleveland , Buffalo , Pittsburgh are all gradually being abandoned , while Texas is leading the nation in population growth , even ahead of California .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not accidental that Germany, which is one of the countries where organized labor and labor protection laws are the strongest, is also the number one exporting/manufacturing country, with exports valued at about 300\% of China's.Not accidental, and apparently not even true...http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100110/ap\_on\_bi\_ge/as\_china\_tradeRemember this the next time someone tries to tell you that labor unions and taxes on the rich are bad for the economy and jobs.You have it backwards.
The unions expanded because of economic growth.
Economic growth lulled industry into complacency, thinking that this was how it was always going to be, so they allowed unions a lot of free rein.
The pension and healthcare deals the unions got in the 50s and 60s became ruinous burdens for the car companies later when all those workers retired.Look at each state in the U.S. and you will find that the ones with the lowest percentage of organized labor (right-to-work states) are also the ones that are in best economic and employment shape, relatively speaking, and are destinations for business to expand and set up shop.
Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, Pittsburgh are all gradually being abandoned, while Texas is leading the nation in population growth, even ahead of California.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872800</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30911090</id>
	<title>Timeless</title>
	<author>proslack</author>
	<datestamp>1264505700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>To paraphrase Thoreau: I have no doubt that some of you who browse this site are unable to pay for all the dinners which you have actually eaten, or for the coats and shoes which are fast wearing or are already worn out, and have come to this page to spend borrowed or stolen time, robbing your employers of an hour. It is very evident what mean and sneaking lives many of you live...</htmltext>
<tokenext>To paraphrase Thoreau : I have no doubt that some of you who browse this site are unable to pay for all the dinners which you have actually eaten , or for the coats and shoes which are fast wearing or are already worn out , and have come to this page to spend borrowed or stolen time , robbing your employers of an hour .
It is very evident what mean and sneaking lives many of you live.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To paraphrase Thoreau: I have no doubt that some of you who browse this site are unable to pay for all the dinners which you have actually eaten, or for the coats and shoes which are fast wearing or are already worn out, and have come to this page to spend borrowed or stolen time, robbing your employers of an hour.
It is very evident what mean and sneaking lives many of you live...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871476</id>
	<title>Re:EA still like this</title>
	<author>St.Creed</author>
	<datestamp>1264277340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> "Hey!  Look, we redid your office!  Isn't it awesome?  Look, the couch folds out into a bed!"</p> </div><p>"That's great! Now I can ask my wife to move in here with me, and we can finally spend some quality time together!"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Hey !
Look , we redid your office !
Is n't it awesome ?
Look , the couch folds out into a bed !
" " That 's great !
Now I can ask my wife to move in here with me , and we can finally spend some quality time together !
" : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext> "Hey!
Look, we redid your office!
Isn't it awesome?
Look, the couch folds out into a bed!
" "That's great!
Now I can ask my wife to move in here with me, and we can finally spend some quality time together!
" :)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871094</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30874280</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264255380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>What is valued is the number of hours you do every day. It doesn't matter if you do something or not !!! I worked 8 hours a day, but was less considered than some other guys who were working 2 hours, but been present 10 hours.</p></div></blockquote><p>Amen. I found the same thing when I worked at Konami in the late '90s. The guys on schedule who went home at a reasonable hour were looked down upon; the guys behind schedule but who were in the office all night got the praise. One guy had a cot under his desk and went home about twice a week to shower. But the quality of his code was absolute crap. It was supposedly C++ code. That's the compiler we used, anyway... I pretty-printed his main() function once, with 1-space indents. The middle of the loop had more than 80 columns of leading whitespace!  And he's the one who got the management recognition, not the people who wrote solid code the first time around.  I would have sworn that the company's motto was "Work harder, not smarter."</p><blockquote><div><p>No, it's just that <b>everybody only knows this bad way of working</b>, and nobody intends to change that: they don't have the time to try other ways !!!</p></div></blockquote><p>That is so, so true. It's a great industry to get out of.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What is valued is the number of hours you do every day .
It does n't matter if you do something or not ! ! !
I worked 8 hours a day , but was less considered than some other guys who were working 2 hours , but been present 10 hours.Amen .
I found the same thing when I worked at Konami in the late '90s .
The guys on schedule who went home at a reasonable hour were looked down upon ; the guys behind schedule but who were in the office all night got the praise .
One guy had a cot under his desk and went home about twice a week to shower .
But the quality of his code was absolute crap .
It was supposedly C + + code .
That 's the compiler we used , anyway... I pretty-printed his main ( ) function once , with 1-space indents .
The middle of the loop had more than 80 columns of leading whitespace !
And he 's the one who got the management recognition , not the people who wrote solid code the first time around .
I would have sworn that the company 's motto was " Work harder , not smarter .
" No , it 's just that everybody only knows this bad way of working , and nobody intends to change that : they do n't have the time to try other ways ! !
! That is so , so true .
It 's a great industry to get out of .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What is valued is the number of hours you do every day.
It doesn't matter if you do something or not !!!
I worked 8 hours a day, but was less considered than some other guys who were working 2 hours, but been present 10 hours.Amen.
I found the same thing when I worked at Konami in the late '90s.
The guys on schedule who went home at a reasonable hour were looked down upon; the guys behind schedule but who were in the office all night got the praise.
One guy had a cot under his desk and went home about twice a week to shower.
But the quality of his code was absolute crap.
It was supposedly C++ code.
That's the compiler we used, anyway... I pretty-printed his main() function once, with 1-space indents.
The middle of the loop had more than 80 columns of leading whitespace!
And he's the one who got the management recognition, not the people who wrote solid code the first time around.
I would have sworn that the company's motto was "Work harder, not smarter.
"No, it's just that everybody only knows this bad way of working, and nobody intends to change that: they don't have the time to try other ways !!
!That is so, so true.
It's a great industry to get out of.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872658</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871942</id>
	<title>Re:so why is Rockstar losing money?</title>
	<author>jimicus</author>
	<datestamp>1264280100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's a big secret that some managers don't seem to get.  (It's mercifully less common here in the UK, but I have seen it).</p><p>Now, this is a <b>huge</b> secret.  I'm not sure I should be posting it here.  But anyway - listen closely...</p><p><i>A man working for 60 hours per week will not necessarily produce 50\% more than a man working for 40 hours per week.  In fact, it's very likely that once he gets tired, he'll make mistakes which he'll then have to fix once rested - and time spent fixing mistakes made through exhaustion is time <b>not</b> being spent on new features.</i></p><p>There, I said it.  If you'll excuse me, I have a bunch of managers with torches and pitchforks at my door and I need to set the dog on them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's a big secret that some managers do n't seem to get .
( It 's mercifully less common here in the UK , but I have seen it ) .Now , this is a huge secret .
I 'm not sure I should be posting it here .
But anyway - listen closely...A man working for 60 hours per week will not necessarily produce 50 \ % more than a man working for 40 hours per week .
In fact , it 's very likely that once he gets tired , he 'll make mistakes which he 'll then have to fix once rested - and time spent fixing mistakes made through exhaustion is time not being spent on new features.There , I said it .
If you 'll excuse me , I have a bunch of managers with torches and pitchforks at my door and I need to set the dog on them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's a big secret that some managers don't seem to get.
(It's mercifully less common here in the UK, but I have seen it).Now, this is a huge secret.
I'm not sure I should be posting it here.
But anyway - listen closely...A man working for 60 hours per week will not necessarily produce 50\% more than a man working for 40 hours per week.
In fact, it's very likely that once he gets tired, he'll make mistakes which he'll then have to fix once rested - and time spent fixing mistakes made through exhaustion is time not being spent on new features.There, I said it.
If you'll excuse me, I have a bunch of managers with torches and pitchforks at my door and I need to set the dog on them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872732</id>
	<title>Re:so why is Rockstar losing money?</title>
	<author>phorm</author>
	<datestamp>1264242900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Probably the same reason they're working their employees to death. They're likely running in circles trying to find some way to make cash, burning out their devs and admins with constant direction-changes and generally not being able to make up their f*cking minds.</p><p>Just because they're not paying their devs properly doesn't mean they're not otherwise burning through cash without a profit-path</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Probably the same reason they 're working their employees to death .
They 're likely running in circles trying to find some way to make cash , burning out their devs and admins with constant direction-changes and generally not being able to make up their f * cking minds.Just because they 're not paying their devs properly does n't mean they 're not otherwise burning through cash without a profit-path</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Probably the same reason they're working their employees to death.
They're likely running in circles trying to find some way to make cash, burning out their devs and admins with constant direction-changes and generally not being able to make up their f*cking minds.Just because they're not paying their devs properly doesn't mean they're not otherwise burning through cash without a profit-path</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871312</id>
	<title>Re:Easy problem to solve</title>
	<author>haruharaharu</author>
	<datestamp>1264276320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I guess you've never been in an abusive relationship.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I guess you 've never been in an abusive relationship .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I guess you've never been in an abusive relationship.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871120</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30875612</id>
	<title>This is how much they care..</title>
	<author>c4t3y3</author>
	<datestamp>1264267920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.rockstargames.com/newswire/2010/01/21/2821/asked\_&amp;\_answered\_-\_re\_red\_dead\_redemption\_l.a.\_noire\_rockstar\_san\_diego\_and\_more" title="rockstargames.com" rel="nofollow">Asked &amp; Answered - Re: Red Dead Redemption, L.A. Noire, Rockstar San Diego and More</a> [rockstargames.com]<blockquote><div><p>As for the stories spreading around the internet, yes we have noticed them.  <b>Unfortunately, this is a case of people taking the opinions of a few anonymous posters on message boards as fact</b>. No business is ever perfect, but Rockstar Games is a tight knit team made up of around 900 supremely talented and motivated professionals, many of whom have worked here for a very long time.  <b>We&rsquo;re saddened if any former members of any studio did not find their time here enjoyable</b> or creatively fulfilling and <b>wish them well with finding an environment more suitable to their temperaments and needs</b>, but the vast majority of our company are focused solely on delivering cutting edge interactive entertainment.  <b>We&rsquo;ve always cared passionately about the people working here</b>, and have always tried to maintain a supportive creative environment.  <b>There is simply no way Rockstar could continue to produce such large scale, high quality games without this</b>.</p></div></blockquote><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr><i>..what? overtime in the gaming industry? oh, not us, it would be impossible to produce games like that</i> </p><p>If you think Rockstar management is honest I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Asked &amp; Answered - Re : Red Dead Redemption , L.A. Noire , Rockstar San Diego and More [ rockstargames.com ] As for the stories spreading around the internet , yes we have noticed them .
Unfortunately , this is a case of people taking the opinions of a few anonymous posters on message boards as fact .
No business is ever perfect , but Rockstar Games is a tight knit team made up of around 900 supremely talented and motivated professionals , many of whom have worked here for a very long time .
We    re saddened if any former members of any studio did not find their time here enjoyable or creatively fulfilling and wish them well with finding an environment more suitable to their temperaments and needs , but the vast majority of our company are focused solely on delivering cutting edge interactive entertainment .
We    ve always cared passionately about the people working here , and have always tried to maintain a supportive creative environment .
There is simply no way Rockstar could continue to produce such large scale , high quality games without this .
..what ? overtime in the gaming industry ?
oh , not us , it would be impossible to produce games like that If you think Rockstar management is honest I have a bridge I 'd like to sell you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Asked &amp; Answered - Re: Red Dead Redemption, L.A. Noire, Rockstar San Diego and More [rockstargames.com]As for the stories spreading around the internet, yes we have noticed them.
Unfortunately, this is a case of people taking the opinions of a few anonymous posters on message boards as fact.
No business is ever perfect, but Rockstar Games is a tight knit team made up of around 900 supremely talented and motivated professionals, many of whom have worked here for a very long time.
We’re saddened if any former members of any studio did not find their time here enjoyable or creatively fulfilling and wish them well with finding an environment more suitable to their temperaments and needs, but the vast majority of our company are focused solely on delivering cutting edge interactive entertainment.
We’ve always cared passionately about the people working here, and have always tried to maintain a supportive creative environment.
There is simply no way Rockstar could continue to produce such large scale, high quality games without this.
..what? overtime in the gaming industry?
oh, not us, it would be impossible to produce games like that If you think Rockstar management is honest I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871886</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264279740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>piece work is generally illegal. There's a reason for that.</p></div><p>Piece work is legal in the UK, so long as the worker is still paid the minimum wage.</p><p>It was easy enough to find that the same applies in the USA: <i>Employers may pay employees on a piecerate basis, as long as they receive at least the equivalent of the required minimum hourly wage rate and overtime for hours worked in excess of 40 hours in a workweek.</i> <a href="http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/minwage.htm#BasicPro" title="dol.gov">(Link)</a> [dol.gov]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>piece work is generally illegal .
There 's a reason for that.Piece work is legal in the UK , so long as the worker is still paid the minimum wage.It was easy enough to find that the same applies in the USA : Employers may pay employees on a piecerate basis , as long as they receive at least the equivalent of the required minimum hourly wage rate and overtime for hours worked in excess of 40 hours in a workweek .
( Link ) [ dol.gov ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>piece work is generally illegal.
There's a reason for that.Piece work is legal in the UK, so long as the worker is still paid the minimum wage.It was easy enough to find that the same applies in the USA: Employers may pay employees on a piecerate basis, as long as they receive at least the equivalent of the required minimum hourly wage rate and overtime for hours worked in excess of 40 hours in a workweek.
(Link) [dol.gov]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30870998</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872800</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>PopeRatzo</author>
	<datestamp>1264243440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Look, the game industry has been run this way for the better part of thirty years.</p></div></blockquote><p>Not just the game industry.  I'm betting everybody who's reading this who has a job is working longer hours under worsening conditions.</p><p>There's been an all-out attack on workers since 1980.  Little by little, every bit of progress that was fought for by organized labor in the first 3/4 of the 20th century is being destroyed.</p><p>The years when organized labor was strongest in the US were also our years of greatest economic growth.  It's not accidental that Germany, which is one of the countries where organized labor and labor protection laws are the strongest, is also the number one exporting/manufacturing country, with exports valued at about 300\% of China's.</p><p>It's also interesting that the years when we had upper-bracket tax rates over 75\% were also the years that we had the greatest increase in GDP and the greatest growth in the middle-class.</p><p>Remember this the next time someone tries to tell you that labor unions and taxes on the rich are bad for the economy and jobs.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Look , the game industry has been run this way for the better part of thirty years.Not just the game industry .
I 'm betting everybody who 's reading this who has a job is working longer hours under worsening conditions.There 's been an all-out attack on workers since 1980 .
Little by little , every bit of progress that was fought for by organized labor in the first 3/4 of the 20th century is being destroyed.The years when organized labor was strongest in the US were also our years of greatest economic growth .
It 's not accidental that Germany , which is one of the countries where organized labor and labor protection laws are the strongest , is also the number one exporting/manufacturing country , with exports valued at about 300 \ % of China 's.It 's also interesting that the years when we had upper-bracket tax rates over 75 \ % were also the years that we had the greatest increase in GDP and the greatest growth in the middle-class.Remember this the next time someone tries to tell you that labor unions and taxes on the rich are bad for the economy and jobs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look, the game industry has been run this way for the better part of thirty years.Not just the game industry.
I'm betting everybody who's reading this who has a job is working longer hours under worsening conditions.There's been an all-out attack on workers since 1980.
Little by little, every bit of progress that was fought for by organized labor in the first 3/4 of the 20th century is being destroyed.The years when organized labor was strongest in the US were also our years of greatest economic growth.
It's not accidental that Germany, which is one of the countries where organized labor and labor protection laws are the strongest, is also the number one exporting/manufacturing country, with exports valued at about 300\% of China's.It's also interesting that the years when we had upper-bracket tax rates over 75\% were also the years that we had the greatest increase in GDP and the greatest growth in the middle-class.Remember this the next time someone tries to tell you that labor unions and taxes on the rich are bad for the economy and jobs.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30870998</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871382</id>
	<title>It is entirely LEGAL in most states</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264276740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The federal DOJ has nothing to do with it.</p><p>It's at-will, exempt employment. In most states, as an at-will, exempt employee you can be asked to work 16 hour or even longer shifts, 7 days a week, and if you do not like it your only recourse is to quit. That's why it's at-will. The employer has no contractual obligation to retain the employee, and the employee has no contractual obligation to continue working for the employer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The federal DOJ has nothing to do with it.It 's at-will , exempt employment .
In most states , as an at-will , exempt employee you can be asked to work 16 hour or even longer shifts , 7 days a week , and if you do not like it your only recourse is to quit .
That 's why it 's at-will .
The employer has no contractual obligation to retain the employee , and the employee has no contractual obligation to continue working for the employer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The federal DOJ has nothing to do with it.It's at-will, exempt employment.
In most states, as an at-will, exempt employee you can be asked to work 16 hour or even longer shifts, 7 days a week, and if you do not like it your only recourse is to quit.
That's why it's at-will.
The employer has no contractual obligation to retain the employee, and the employee has no contractual obligation to continue working for the employer.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871120</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30899630</id>
	<title>Now... it's Miller time...</title>
	<author>drkim</author>
	<datestamp>1264435260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wow! Me too!
<br> <br>
I was a game tester working 12 hours a day.
<br>
Now, I've cut back to 8 hour shifts which means I can go home and relax playing games for 6 hours.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow !
Me too !
I was a game tester working 12 hours a day .
Now , I 've cut back to 8 hour shifts which means I can go home and relax playing games for 6 hours .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow!
Me too!
I was a game tester working 12 hours a day.
Now, I've cut back to 8 hour shifts which means I can go home and relax playing games for 6 hours.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873288</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871178</id>
	<title>Crunch period</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264275420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>more commonly know to devs as 'project mismanagement compensation period'</p><p>If it was still doing that stuff, I'd wear a T-shirt that said 'I am not a slave FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU' with an angry scrawl face emblem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>more commonly know to devs as 'project mismanagement compensation period'If it was still doing that stuff , I 'd wear a T-shirt that said 'I am not a slave FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU ' with an angry scrawl face emblem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>more commonly know to devs as 'project mismanagement compensation period'If it was still doing that stuff, I'd wear a T-shirt that said 'I am not a slave FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU' with an angry scrawl face emblem.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871108</id>
	<title>Not that I'm a cynic but....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264275000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Having worked 28 some years in the semiconductor industry grinding out chips for PC's the story sounds SOOOooooo familiar.</p><p>"It's just this time...honest....just give up your entire personal life.... your wife and kids will love you for it cause we are just going to rain cash and kudo's on you"</p><p>Fast forward 2 years later...</p><p>"Ok, so my wife left me, my kids hate me and now your telling me my bonus went to the CEO and his butt buddies on the board because they needed something to light their cigars with and now your laying me off because we missed the market because you couldn't make up your friggin mind what you wanted and we all killed ourselves for you for nothing?  Do I understand this right?"</p><p>Sux don't it?</p><p>I feel fortunate to have stashed just enough away to moon them all Ace Ventura style and walk away.  Those in this kind of mess really have to ask themselves what is REALLY important.  Those that run places like this which is 90\% of corporate business these days don't give a rat's ass about you.  Employees are an expense to be reduced not an asset to be valued. Think you are not replaceable.  Put you hand into a bucket of water and pull it out and see how fast that hole fills up.  That is the reality.  If you really like that work more than life itself, then that is what you should do but if not..... you might just want to look around.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Having worked 28 some years in the semiconductor industry grinding out chips for PC 's the story sounds SOOOooooo familiar .
" It 's just this time...honest....just give up your entire personal life.... your wife and kids will love you for it cause we are just going to rain cash and kudo 's on you " Fast forward 2 years later... " Ok , so my wife left me , my kids hate me and now your telling me my bonus went to the CEO and his butt buddies on the board because they needed something to light their cigars with and now your laying me off because we missed the market because you could n't make up your friggin mind what you wanted and we all killed ourselves for you for nothing ?
Do I understand this right ?
" Sux do n't it ? I feel fortunate to have stashed just enough away to moon them all Ace Ventura style and walk away .
Those in this kind of mess really have to ask themselves what is REALLY important .
Those that run places like this which is 90 \ % of corporate business these days do n't give a rat 's ass about you .
Employees are an expense to be reduced not an asset to be valued .
Think you are not replaceable .
Put you hand into a bucket of water and pull it out and see how fast that hole fills up .
That is the reality .
If you really like that work more than life itself , then that is what you should do but if not..... you might just want to look around .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having worked 28 some years in the semiconductor industry grinding out chips for PC's the story sounds SOOOooooo familiar.
"It's just this time...honest....just give up your entire personal life.... your wife and kids will love you for it cause we are just going to rain cash and kudo's on you"Fast forward 2 years later..."Ok, so my wife left me, my kids hate me and now your telling me my bonus went to the CEO and his butt buddies on the board because they needed something to light their cigars with and now your laying me off because we missed the market because you couldn't make up your friggin mind what you wanted and we all killed ourselves for you for nothing?
Do I understand this right?
"Sux don't it?I feel fortunate to have stashed just enough away to moon them all Ace Ventura style and walk away.
Those in this kind of mess really have to ask themselves what is REALLY important.
Those that run places like this which is 90\% of corporate business these days don't give a rat's ass about you.
Employees are an expense to be reduced not an asset to be valued.
Think you are not replaceable.
Put you hand into a bucket of water and pull it out and see how fast that hole fills up.
That is the reality.
If you really like that work more than life itself, then that is what you should do but if not..... you might just want to look around.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871652</id>
	<title>Re:12 hour work days?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264278420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I only need a good 5 minutes with the wife.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I only need a good 5 minutes with the wife .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I only need a good 5 minutes with the wife.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30870978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873144</id>
	<title>Re:Only 6 days a week?</title>
	<author>Destined Soul</author>
	<datestamp>1264246080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Okay, you got me curious..  are you working 7 days a week at 12+ hours each day?  Or is it a lot fewer hours just over the entire week?</p><p>If so, do you have a happily married wife and kid(s)?  I know a few people that would be fine with working solid 10+ hour days a week all week but they have no life nor significant others.</p><p>I'm not trying to argue that it's wrong but I am curious how you would do it.  I've done 55+ hour work weeks for months in a row and it was starting to take its toll on my family.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Okay , you got me curious.. are you working 7 days a week at 12 + hours each day ?
Or is it a lot fewer hours just over the entire week ? If so , do you have a happily married wife and kid ( s ) ?
I know a few people that would be fine with working solid 10 + hour days a week all week but they have no life nor significant others.I 'm not trying to argue that it 's wrong but I am curious how you would do it .
I 've done 55 + hour work weeks for months in a row and it was starting to take its toll on my family .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Okay, you got me curious..  are you working 7 days a week at 12+ hours each day?
Or is it a lot fewer hours just over the entire week?If so, do you have a happily married wife and kid(s)?
I know a few people that would be fine with working solid 10+ hour days a week all week but they have no life nor significant others.I'm not trying to argue that it's wrong but I am curious how you would do it.
I've done 55+ hour work weeks for months in a row and it was starting to take its toll on my family.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871580</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30892514</id>
	<title>The real Anonymous Cowards.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264443420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I refuse to give credence to a report about employees when they require their spouses to do all the fighting and talking for them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I refuse to give credence to a report about employees when they require their spouses to do all the fighting and talking for them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I refuse to give credence to a report about employees when they require their spouses to do all the fighting and talking for them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30879410</id>
	<title>Re:Union, Yes!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264356360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I spent years inside the game industry advocating the formation of a union or the joining with the Animation Guild. Game developers, the people, are very business naive and simply come back with stupid statements like "I'm no commie" and refuse further discussion.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I spent years inside the game industry advocating the formation of a union or the joining with the Animation Guild .
Game developers , the people , are very business naive and simply come back with stupid statements like " I 'm no commie " and refuse further discussion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I spent years inside the game industry advocating the formation of a union or the joining with the Animation Guild.
Game developers, the people, are very business naive and simply come back with stupid statements like "I'm no commie" and refuse further discussion.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871130</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871676</id>
	<title>Piecework is not generally illegal</title>
	<author>alfoolio</author>
	<datestamp>1264278600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr>... and guess what, piece work is generally illegal. There's a reason for that.</p></div> </blockquote><p>Telemarketers, garment industry workers and many others would be greatly surprised to find they are engaged in illegal work activities.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>... and guess what , piece work is generally illegal .
There 's a reason for that .
Telemarketers , garment industry workers and many others would be greatly surprised to find they are engaged in illegal work activities .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ... and guess what, piece work is generally illegal.
There's a reason for that.
Telemarketers, garment industry workers and many others would be greatly surprised to find they are engaged in illegal work activities.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30870998</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30870978</id>
	<title>12 hour work days?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264274100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Slackers.  That still leaves you half the day for sleeping and eating!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Slackers .
That still leaves you half the day for sleeping and eating !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Slackers.
That still leaves you half the day for sleeping and eating!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871118</id>
	<title>And not this is not standard behavior</title>
	<author>perpenso</author>
	<datestamp>1264275060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And no this is not necessarily standard behavior.  Historically at least one other very large and very successful developer/publisher compensated for its cunch time hours with appropriate sales based bonuses.  Nearly all workers and wives believe they are treated fairly.  In more recent times industry lawsuits led this developer/publisher to move to hourly compensation that includes overtime. It is amazing R* did not also make such a move.<br> <br>
--<br>
<a href="http://www.perpenso.com/calc/" title="perpenso.com" rel="nofollow">Perpenso Calc</a> [perpenso.com] for iPhone and iPod touch, scientific and bill/tip calculator, fractions, complex numbers, RPN</htmltext>
<tokenext>And no this is not necessarily standard behavior .
Historically at least one other very large and very successful developer/publisher compensated for its cunch time hours with appropriate sales based bonuses .
Nearly all workers and wives believe they are treated fairly .
In more recent times industry lawsuits led this developer/publisher to move to hourly compensation that includes overtime .
It is amazing R * did not also make such a move .
-- Perpenso Calc [ perpenso.com ] for iPhone and iPod touch , scientific and bill/tip calculator , fractions , complex numbers , RPN</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And no this is not necessarily standard behavior.
Historically at least one other very large and very successful developer/publisher compensated for its cunch time hours with appropriate sales based bonuses.
Nearly all workers and wives believe they are treated fairly.
In more recent times industry lawsuits led this developer/publisher to move to hourly compensation that includes overtime.
It is amazing R* did not also make such a move.
--
Perpenso Calc [perpenso.com] for iPhone and iPod touch, scientific and bill/tip calculator, fractions, complex numbers, RPN</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30884614</id>
	<title>Nope.</title>
	<author>jotaeleemeese</author>
	<datestamp>1264343820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have never worked more than 40 hours per week.</p><p>If you don't say no then you will say yes forever.</p><p>Sad to see so many people with so little self respect and dignity (and please don't come with the "I need bread on the table". I do as well, but I plan in order to be able to afford to uphold my dignity...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have never worked more than 40 hours per week.If you do n't say no then you will say yes forever.Sad to see so many people with so little self respect and dignity ( and please do n't come with the " I need bread on the table " .
I do as well , but I plan in order to be able to afford to uphold my dignity.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have never worked more than 40 hours per week.If you don't say no then you will say yes forever.Sad to see so many people with so little self respect and dignity (and please don't come with the "I need bread on the table".
I do as well, but I plan in order to be able to afford to uphold my dignity...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872800</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871662</id>
	<title>Re:EA still like this</title>
	<author>Backward Z</author>
	<datestamp>1264278540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I worked at EA for six months in a development position.  As I was leaving, I ran into the studio lead that hired me.  He asked me, "How are your hours?" (I was already in the 70's and it was Thursday).  He commented, "Aw, shucks, I thought we were all done with that," before launching into a story about how every year, despite swearing he'll never do it again, he ends up in serious crunch.  "Hell, just last year Paul and I were doing 110, 120 hour weeks to finish Lord of the Rings."</p><p>And so I didn't pursue extended employment at EA.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I worked at EA for six months in a development position .
As I was leaving , I ran into the studio lead that hired me .
He asked me , " How are your hours ?
" ( I was already in the 70 's and it was Thursday ) .
He commented , " Aw , shucks , I thought we were all done with that , " before launching into a story about how every year , despite swearing he 'll never do it again , he ends up in serious crunch .
" Hell , just last year Paul and I were doing 110 , 120 hour weeks to finish Lord of the Rings .
" And so I did n't pursue extended employment at EA .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I worked at EA for six months in a development position.
As I was leaving, I ran into the studio lead that hired me.
He asked me, "How are your hours?
" (I was already in the 70's and it was Thursday).
He commented, "Aw, shucks, I thought we were all done with that," before launching into a story about how every year, despite swearing he'll never do it again, he ends up in serious crunch.
"Hell, just last year Paul and I were doing 110, 120 hour weeks to finish Lord of the Rings.
"And so I didn't pursue extended employment at EA.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871094</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30874060</id>
	<title>Cry me a river</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264253220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>as a military man all i can say is get over it. If you dont like it leave, i doubt they signed a 6 year contract.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>as a military man all i can say is get over it .
If you dont like it leave , i doubt they signed a 6 year contract .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>as a military man all i can say is get over it.
If you dont like it leave, i doubt they signed a 6 year contract.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871080</id>
	<title>This is why I discourage anyone...</title>
	<author>betelgeuse68</author>
	<datestamp>1264274820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When they say they want to get involved in the games industry.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When they say they want to get involved in the games industry .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When they say they want to get involved in the games industry.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871606</id>
	<title>No incentive to avoid crunch aside from bad press.</title>
	<author>LordZardoz</author>
	<datestamp>1264278120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Most of the larger companies are trying to get away from this practice, though not always with much success.  I do know that even within a single company, things can vary greatly from one team to the next, so I wonder if this is due to the management at a particular studio, or if it is a problem that affects all of Rockstar.  The article mentions 'despite over $1 billion in Grand Theft Auto revenue', which is deeply misleading.  That was made at Rockstar North, in Scotland.  There is no reason to assume that just because one studio is printing its own money that the revenues will be distributed evenly across all partner studios.</p><p>I have worked for two of the largest companies in this industry, Ubisoft and EA.  At those companies, I can tell you that as far as the CEO / corporate level management are concerned, they just want to see a game get done on time and on budget, and for it to hit the sales estimates.  This is because those things will have a direct affect on the quarterly and annual statements.  For a game to be a hit depends on many factors that cannot be directly influenced;  ie:  the design, gameplay, story (if applicable), the license and the marketing campaign all have to hit the right notes to result in a hit.  Most pressure that a typical developer sees, especially if there are not any direct design responsibilities, is to get stuff done On Time and On / Under budget.  The incentive used is a bonus.  And this is where good intentions start to break down.</p><p>The producers on a project are typically given a bonus that depends mostly on the game being done on time and on budget.  They are given a budget, and after that, the rest of the company does not look at anything beyond various demo's done for the editorial boards.  The CEO types would like for the employees to be happy (no one wants bad press), but they leave that up to the studio HR and project leads / producers.  What most people do not realize is that even within the same company, the work experience can vary greatly from one team to the next.  One team might be using wise development practices, be carefully deciding which employees work on the title, and doing what they can to keep the scope of the game manageable given their time constraints.  Other teams might simply pour on the crunch hours and death march the employees to meet the goal.  But if the game is done on time and on budget, the producers always get their bonus.</p><p>What I see as being a big part of the problem is that there is no incentive at any point for those who run the projects to keep their employees happy.  At a company like Ubisoft, you can finish your project, and have 70\% of the staff quit, burn out, or just refuse to work on the sequel.  But if you got it done on time and on budget, you get the same bonus.</p><p>Getting back to the article at hand, it is entirely possible that the people running Rockstar North have great development practices and have happy employees, but for the Rockstar San Diego studio to be helmed by Captain Bligh.</p><p>END COMMUNICATION</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Most of the larger companies are trying to get away from this practice , though not always with much success .
I do know that even within a single company , things can vary greatly from one team to the next , so I wonder if this is due to the management at a particular studio , or if it is a problem that affects all of Rockstar .
The article mentions 'despite over $ 1 billion in Grand Theft Auto revenue ' , which is deeply misleading .
That was made at Rockstar North , in Scotland .
There is no reason to assume that just because one studio is printing its own money that the revenues will be distributed evenly across all partner studios.I have worked for two of the largest companies in this industry , Ubisoft and EA .
At those companies , I can tell you that as far as the CEO / corporate level management are concerned , they just want to see a game get done on time and on budget , and for it to hit the sales estimates .
This is because those things will have a direct affect on the quarterly and annual statements .
For a game to be a hit depends on many factors that can not be directly influenced ; ie : the design , gameplay , story ( if applicable ) , the license and the marketing campaign all have to hit the right notes to result in a hit .
Most pressure that a typical developer sees , especially if there are not any direct design responsibilities , is to get stuff done On Time and On / Under budget .
The incentive used is a bonus .
And this is where good intentions start to break down.The producers on a project are typically given a bonus that depends mostly on the game being done on time and on budget .
They are given a budget , and after that , the rest of the company does not look at anything beyond various demo 's done for the editorial boards .
The CEO types would like for the employees to be happy ( no one wants bad press ) , but they leave that up to the studio HR and project leads / producers .
What most people do not realize is that even within the same company , the work experience can vary greatly from one team to the next .
One team might be using wise development practices , be carefully deciding which employees work on the title , and doing what they can to keep the scope of the game manageable given their time constraints .
Other teams might simply pour on the crunch hours and death march the employees to meet the goal .
But if the game is done on time and on budget , the producers always get their bonus.What I see as being a big part of the problem is that there is no incentive at any point for those who run the projects to keep their employees happy .
At a company like Ubisoft , you can finish your project , and have 70 \ % of the staff quit , burn out , or just refuse to work on the sequel .
But if you got it done on time and on budget , you get the same bonus.Getting back to the article at hand , it is entirely possible that the people running Rockstar North have great development practices and have happy employees , but for the Rockstar San Diego studio to be helmed by Captain Bligh.END COMMUNICATION</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most of the larger companies are trying to get away from this practice, though not always with much success.
I do know that even within a single company, things can vary greatly from one team to the next, so I wonder if this is due to the management at a particular studio, or if it is a problem that affects all of Rockstar.
The article mentions 'despite over $1 billion in Grand Theft Auto revenue', which is deeply misleading.
That was made at Rockstar North, in Scotland.
There is no reason to assume that just because one studio is printing its own money that the revenues will be distributed evenly across all partner studios.I have worked for two of the largest companies in this industry, Ubisoft and EA.
At those companies, I can tell you that as far as the CEO / corporate level management are concerned, they just want to see a game get done on time and on budget, and for it to hit the sales estimates.
This is because those things will have a direct affect on the quarterly and annual statements.
For a game to be a hit depends on many factors that cannot be directly influenced;  ie:  the design, gameplay, story (if applicable), the license and the marketing campaign all have to hit the right notes to result in a hit.
Most pressure that a typical developer sees, especially if there are not any direct design responsibilities, is to get stuff done On Time and On / Under budget.
The incentive used is a bonus.
And this is where good intentions start to break down.The producers on a project are typically given a bonus that depends mostly on the game being done on time and on budget.
They are given a budget, and after that, the rest of the company does not look at anything beyond various demo's done for the editorial boards.
The CEO types would like for the employees to be happy (no one wants bad press), but they leave that up to the studio HR and project leads / producers.
What most people do not realize is that even within the same company, the work experience can vary greatly from one team to the next.
One team might be using wise development practices, be carefully deciding which employees work on the title, and doing what they can to keep the scope of the game manageable given their time constraints.
Other teams might simply pour on the crunch hours and death march the employees to meet the goal.
But if the game is done on time and on budget, the producers always get their bonus.What I see as being a big part of the problem is that there is no incentive at any point for those who run the projects to keep their employees happy.
At a company like Ubisoft, you can finish your project, and have 70\% of the staff quit, burn out, or just refuse to work on the sequel.
But if you got it done on time and on budget, you get the same bonus.Getting back to the article at hand, it is entirely possible that the people running Rockstar North have great development practices and have happy employees, but for the Rockstar San Diego studio to be helmed by Captain Bligh.END COMMUNICATION</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872364</id>
	<title>It's not just Rockstar</title>
	<author>gillbates</author>
	<datestamp>1264239900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Any company will exploit their workers given the opportunity.  At least Rockstar employees love what they're doing.
</p><p>
I've come to the point where I no longer care about rocking the boat.  Yes, it will get you a bad performance review.  But now that the economy is in the tank, it is very important to draw that proverbial line in the sand.  You might even get fired.
</p><p>
Now, you might ask why anyone would voluntarily do something that would get them fired.  Here's why:  It is better for both you and I in the long run.  This is almost a classic prisoner's dilemna.  Here's how it would play out in a world where every employee stood up for themself:
</p><ol>
<li>Employer X attempts to get employee A to work unpaid overtime for salary j.</li>
<li>Employee A refuses.</li>
<li>Meanwhile, employer Y pays employee B a salary, k.</li>
<li>X fires A.  X must now find another employee.</li>
<li>X must hire someone.  They now have to hire B, at salary k + $(bonus) + $(raise), in order to induce him to leave Y.</li>
<li>Y must now hire someone.  They now hire A at j + $(bonus) + $(raise).</li>
</ol><p>
In other words, a small amount of unemployment shows that the economy is working well for workers.  What most people don't know is that the average employee in a tech-oriented business brings in $10k of revenue *per week*.  That is, the salary and (more importantly) bonus a new hire draws is almost insignificant in comparison to the loss of profit a company endures during their absence.  A company which waits even two weeks to hire someone at a lower salary will in most cases never recoup the lost opportunity cost of waiting.  Businesses hate uncertainty, especially the loss-producing kind.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Any company will exploit their workers given the opportunity .
At least Rockstar employees love what they 're doing .
I 've come to the point where I no longer care about rocking the boat .
Yes , it will get you a bad performance review .
But now that the economy is in the tank , it is very important to draw that proverbial line in the sand .
You might even get fired .
Now , you might ask why anyone would voluntarily do something that would get them fired .
Here 's why : It is better for both you and I in the long run .
This is almost a classic prisoner 's dilemna .
Here 's how it would play out in a world where every employee stood up for themself : Employer X attempts to get employee A to work unpaid overtime for salary j . Employee A refuses .
Meanwhile , employer Y pays employee B a salary , k . X fires A. X must now find another employee .
X must hire someone .
They now have to hire B , at salary k + $ ( bonus ) + $ ( raise ) , in order to induce him to leave Y . Y must now hire someone .
They now hire A at j + $ ( bonus ) + $ ( raise ) .
In other words , a small amount of unemployment shows that the economy is working well for workers .
What most people do n't know is that the average employee in a tech-oriented business brings in $ 10k of revenue * per week * .
That is , the salary and ( more importantly ) bonus a new hire draws is almost insignificant in comparison to the loss of profit a company endures during their absence .
A company which waits even two weeks to hire someone at a lower salary will in most cases never recoup the lost opportunity cost of waiting .
Businesses hate uncertainty , especially the loss-producing kind .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Any company will exploit their workers given the opportunity.
At least Rockstar employees love what they're doing.
I've come to the point where I no longer care about rocking the boat.
Yes, it will get you a bad performance review.
But now that the economy is in the tank, it is very important to draw that proverbial line in the sand.
You might even get fired.
Now, you might ask why anyone would voluntarily do something that would get them fired.
Here's why:  It is better for both you and I in the long run.
This is almost a classic prisoner's dilemna.
Here's how it would play out in a world where every employee stood up for themself:

Employer X attempts to get employee A to work unpaid overtime for salary j.
Employee A refuses.
Meanwhile, employer Y pays employee B a salary, k.
X fires A.  X must now find another employee.
X must hire someone.
They now have to hire B, at salary k + $(bonus) + $(raise), in order to induce him to leave Y.
Y must now hire someone.
They now hire A at j + $(bonus) + $(raise).
In other words, a small amount of unemployment shows that the economy is working well for workers.
What most people don't know is that the average employee in a tech-oriented business brings in $10k of revenue *per week*.
That is, the salary and (more importantly) bonus a new hire draws is almost insignificant in comparison to the loss of profit a company endures during their absence.
A company which waits even two weeks to hire someone at a lower salary will in most cases never recoup the lost opportunity cost of waiting.
Businesses hate uncertainty, especially the loss-producing kind.
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873096</id>
	<title>Re:programmers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264245720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>hate to break it to you but a mortgage is a form of debt.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>hate to break it to you but a mortgage is a form of debt .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>hate to break it to you but a mortgage is a form of debt.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871602</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30876066</id>
	<title>Agree with this...</title>
	<author>Mongoose Disciple</author>
	<datestamp>1264271940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think there's two things that lead to shitty conditions for game developers:</p><p>1)  There are a lot more people who want that job than can have that job, so people who won't put in unreasonable hours can be and often are replaceable.  (Unsurprisingly, experienced game devs/managers with a bunch of shipped successful titles on their resume often are able to demand better working conditions, because they're at least a little less replaceable.)</p><p>2)  Game development isn't run as "professionally" as other development.  This is a superset of the problem of bad management that the parent poster raises.</p><p>Generally in the game industry it seems like it's standard to be able to fuck around more at work and work late/varied hours than the rest of the team much more than is standard in other dev jobs.  So of course you have to spend more time if you can take a two hour lunch and play other games, or if the lead dev doesn't roll in until noon and anyone who needs to ask him a question is shit out of luck until he arrives.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think there 's two things that lead to shitty conditions for game developers : 1 ) There are a lot more people who want that job than can have that job , so people who wo n't put in unreasonable hours can be and often are replaceable .
( Unsurprisingly , experienced game devs/managers with a bunch of shipped successful titles on their resume often are able to demand better working conditions , because they 're at least a little less replaceable .
) 2 ) Game development is n't run as " professionally " as other development .
This is a superset of the problem of bad management that the parent poster raises.Generally in the game industry it seems like it 's standard to be able to fuck around more at work and work late/varied hours than the rest of the team much more than is standard in other dev jobs .
So of course you have to spend more time if you can take a two hour lunch and play other games , or if the lead dev does n't roll in until noon and anyone who needs to ask him a question is shit out of luck until he arrives .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think there's two things that lead to shitty conditions for game developers:1)  There are a lot more people who want that job than can have that job, so people who won't put in unreasonable hours can be and often are replaceable.
(Unsurprisingly, experienced game devs/managers with a bunch of shipped successful titles on their resume often are able to demand better working conditions, because they're at least a little less replaceable.
)2)  Game development isn't run as "professionally" as other development.
This is a superset of the problem of bad management that the parent poster raises.Generally in the game industry it seems like it's standard to be able to fuck around more at work and work late/varied hours than the rest of the team much more than is standard in other dev jobs.
So of course you have to spend more time if you can take a two hour lunch and play other games, or if the lead dev doesn't roll in until noon and anyone who needs to ask him a question is shit out of luck until he arrives.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30870998</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871058</id>
	<title>Let's try this again ...</title>
	<author>ScrewMaster</author>
	<datestamp>1264274700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>What the heck? I was logged in and it posted me A.C. Anyway<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
<br> <br>
He could be describing Electronic Arts. Look, the game industry has been run this way for the better part of thirty years. I worked as a coder for a couple of game companies back in the mid-eighties<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... and I left for the reasons described in the summary. Never looked back. As much as I enjoyed that line of work, management practices were abusive even then. The irony is that there's no real reason for it other than poor management. We know how to manage software projects well, we know that pushing programmers too hard does not result in any real savings. The problem is managers that use simple metrics like lines of code written per day to determine a developer's value. That's how you treat piece workers in a factory<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... and guess what, piece work is generally illegal. There's a reason for that.
<br> <br>
Jam up your development staff the way these outfits do, and you get poor quality code. It is inevitable, Mr. Anderson. The usual chain of events involves increased QA costs, continual rework, missed deadlines and lost customers. Yet they persist in this obviously defective approach, which to me indicates that upper management is hiring sadists to run their development teams.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What the heck ?
I was logged in and it posted me A.C. Anyway .. . He could be describing Electronic Arts .
Look , the game industry has been run this way for the better part of thirty years .
I worked as a coder for a couple of game companies back in the mid-eighties ... and I left for the reasons described in the summary .
Never looked back .
As much as I enjoyed that line of work , management practices were abusive even then .
The irony is that there 's no real reason for it other than poor management .
We know how to manage software projects well , we know that pushing programmers too hard does not result in any real savings .
The problem is managers that use simple metrics like lines of code written per day to determine a developer 's value .
That 's how you treat piece workers in a factory ... and guess what , piece work is generally illegal .
There 's a reason for that .
Jam up your development staff the way these outfits do , and you get poor quality code .
It is inevitable , Mr. Anderson. The usual chain of events involves increased QA costs , continual rework , missed deadlines and lost customers .
Yet they persist in this obviously defective approach , which to me indicates that upper management is hiring sadists to run their development teams .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What the heck?
I was logged in and it posted me A.C. Anyway ...
 
He could be describing Electronic Arts.
Look, the game industry has been run this way for the better part of thirty years.
I worked as a coder for a couple of game companies back in the mid-eighties ... and I left for the reasons described in the summary.
Never looked back.
As much as I enjoyed that line of work, management practices were abusive even then.
The irony is that there's no real reason for it other than poor management.
We know how to manage software projects well, we know that pushing programmers too hard does not result in any real savings.
The problem is managers that use simple metrics like lines of code written per day to determine a developer's value.
That's how you treat piece workers in a factory ... and guess what, piece work is generally illegal.
There's a reason for that.
Jam up your development staff the way these outfits do, and you get poor quality code.
It is inevitable, Mr. Anderson. The usual chain of events involves increased QA costs, continual rework, missed deadlines and lost customers.
Yet they persist in this obviously defective approach, which to me indicates that upper management is hiring sadists to run their development teams.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30875770</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>khchung</author>
	<datestamp>1264269180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Not just the game industry. I'm betting everybody who's reading this who has a job is working longer hours under worsening conditions.</p></div><p>Not me.  Why?  Because I know where to set my limits, and I communicate very explicitly about it during job interviews.  Abusive managers won't hire me (good for both of us!), and if my current boss no longer respect that limit, I start looking for another job.</p><p>It is that simple, no union required.</p><p>Look guys, a company is <b>not</b> a family, it exists only to make money, not to babysit its employees.  If you won't take care of yourself, don't expect other people in your company to take care of you.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not just the game industry .
I 'm betting everybody who 's reading this who has a job is working longer hours under worsening conditions.Not me .
Why ? Because I know where to set my limits , and I communicate very explicitly about it during job interviews .
Abusive managers wo n't hire me ( good for both of us !
) , and if my current boss no longer respect that limit , I start looking for another job.It is that simple , no union required.Look guys , a company is not a family , it exists only to make money , not to babysit its employees .
If you wo n't take care of yourself , do n't expect other people in your company to take care of you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not just the game industry.
I'm betting everybody who's reading this who has a job is working longer hours under worsening conditions.Not me.
Why?  Because I know where to set my limits, and I communicate very explicitly about it during job interviews.
Abusive managers won't hire me (good for both of us!
), and if my current boss no longer respect that limit, I start looking for another job.It is that simple, no union required.Look guys, a company is not a family, it exists only to make money, not to babysit its employees.
If you won't take care of yourself, don't expect other people in your company to take care of you.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872800</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871318</id>
	<title>Do you know what's funny?!?!</title>
	<author>JamesP</author>
	<datestamp>1264276380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I hear this: "My bosses are morons that make everybody do crunch time, etc"</p><p>Makes me wonder: guys, LEAVE, everybody at once, right now! And make your own company. And treat developers like they should be treated.</p><p>If your bosses are morons it shouldn't be too difficult.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I hear this : " My bosses are morons that make everybody do crunch time , etc " Makes me wonder : guys , LEAVE , everybody at once , right now !
And make your own company .
And treat developers like they should be treated.If your bosses are morons it should n't be too difficult .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hear this: "My bosses are morons that make everybody do crunch time, etc"Makes me wonder: guys, LEAVE, everybody at once, right now!
And make your own company.
And treat developers like they should be treated.If your bosses are morons it shouldn't be too difficult.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30875184</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>gad\_zuki!</author>
	<datestamp>1264263540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Without overworked half-asleep developers how will we have amusing errors like this:</p><p><a href="http://www.failcomputer.com/?p=5" title="failcomputer.com">http://www.failcomputer.com/?p=5</a> [failcomputer.com]</p><p>or ever see stuff like this again???</p><p><a href="http://www.failcomputer.com/?p=66" title="failcomputer.com">http://www.failcomputer.com/?p=66</a> [failcomputer.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Without overworked half-asleep developers how will we have amusing errors like this : http : //www.failcomputer.com/ ? p = 5 [ failcomputer.com ] or ever see stuff like this again ? ?
? http : //www.failcomputer.com/ ? p = 66 [ failcomputer.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Without overworked half-asleep developers how will we have amusing errors like this:http://www.failcomputer.com/?p=5 [failcomputer.com]or ever see stuff like this again??
?http://www.failcomputer.com/?p=66 [failcomputer.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871640</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873104</id>
	<title>Rockstar. . . hmmmm</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264245780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Let's see:</p><p>Grueling hours. Check.<br>Damaged health. Check.<br>Strained personal relationships. Check.<br>Doing work for free. Check.<br>Corporation raking in billions. Check.<br>Disregard for talent. Check.</p><p>Sounds just like being a real life "rock star!"</p><p>(on a serious note: Come on Rockstar. Treat your freaking employees well. This makes me not want to buy your games.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Let 's see : Grueling hours .
Check.Damaged health .
Check.Strained personal relationships .
Check.Doing work for free .
Check.Corporation raking in billions .
Check.Disregard for talent .
Check.Sounds just like being a real life " rock star !
" ( on a serious note : Come on Rockstar .
Treat your freaking employees well .
This makes me not want to buy your games .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let's see:Grueling hours.
Check.Damaged health.
Check.Strained personal relationships.
Check.Doing work for free.
Check.Corporation raking in billions.
Check.Disregard for talent.
Check.Sounds just like being a real life "rock star!
"(on a serious note: Come on Rockstar.
Treat your freaking employees well.
This makes me not want to buy your games.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871032</id>
	<title>If they're working on GTA all the time...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264274520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Maybe they'll go on a killing spree with a supercar they got from their mobile phone.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe they 'll go on a killing spree with a supercar they got from their mobile phone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe they'll go on a killing spree with a supercar they got from their mobile phone.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30874048</id>
	<title>Re:Only 6 days a week?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264253160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I've been working 7 days a week for the past two years. This article is making Rockstar sound pretty good to me</p></div><p>Perhaps in the sense that one punch in the face is preferable to two? Wouldn't it be better not to be getting punched at all?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been working 7 days a week for the past two years .
This article is making Rockstar sound pretty good to mePerhaps in the sense that one punch in the face is preferable to two ?
Would n't it be better not to be getting punched at all ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been working 7 days a week for the past two years.
This article is making Rockstar sound pretty good to mePerhaps in the sense that one punch in the face is preferable to two?
Wouldn't it be better not to be getting punched at all?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871580</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871282</id>
	<title>Re:programmers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264276140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>can I say 'THIS' a million times?!</p><p>This is not just for EA, it's for everybody.</p><p>Top developer mistake: UNDERESTIMATING development time<br>2nd place: being 'yes men' and get taken by the manager's attitude.<br>3rd place: taking your boss seriously<br>4th place: not standing up for BS like CMMI etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>can I say 'THIS ' a million times ?
! This is not just for EA , it 's for everybody.Top developer mistake : UNDERESTIMATING development time2nd place : being 'yes men ' and get taken by the manager 's attitude.3rd place : taking your boss seriously4th place : not standing up for BS like CMMI etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>can I say 'THIS' a million times?
!This is not just for EA, it's for everybody.Top developer mistake: UNDERESTIMATING development time2nd place: being 'yes men' and get taken by the manager's attitude.3rd place: taking your boss seriously4th place: not standing up for BS like CMMI etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871054</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30874296</id>
	<title>Re:12 hour work days?</title>
	<author>furbearntrout</author>
	<datestamp>1264255500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Whatever you say,"Trigger"!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Whatever you say , " Trigger " !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Whatever you say,"Trigger"!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871658</id>
	<title>Re:programmers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264278480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's not an option for all developers.  I work at a smaller company where we take contracts from publishers like EA.  The publisher is who decides that even though we're only two months away from launch, everything we've done is not matching their new project manager's vision -- or that this is the first time anyone high up at their company has actually looked at the game, and they don't like it.</p><p>We simply don't have the option, because the end product is almost never what the publisher initially asks for -- we are aiming at a moving target, with no ability to predict where it will go.  Could we tell the publisher "fuck off, we're done, we did what you want, bye"?  Sure, if we want to lose millions of dollars and fire half of our staff.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's not an option for all developers .
I work at a smaller company where we take contracts from publishers like EA .
The publisher is who decides that even though we 're only two months away from launch , everything we 've done is not matching their new project manager 's vision -- or that this is the first time anyone high up at their company has actually looked at the game , and they do n't like it.We simply do n't have the option , because the end product is almost never what the publisher initially asks for -- we are aiming at a moving target , with no ability to predict where it will go .
Could we tell the publisher " fuck off , we 're done , we did what you want , bye " ?
Sure , if we want to lose millions of dollars and fire half of our staff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's not an option for all developers.
I work at a smaller company where we take contracts from publishers like EA.
The publisher is who decides that even though we're only two months away from launch, everything we've done is not matching their new project manager's vision -- or that this is the first time anyone high up at their company has actually looked at the game, and they don't like it.We simply don't have the option, because the end product is almost never what the publisher initially asks for -- we are aiming at a moving target, with no ability to predict where it will go.
Could we tell the publisher "fuck off, we're done, we did what you want, bye"?
Sure, if we want to lose millions of dollars and fire half of our staff.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871054</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30874662</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>Arccot</author>
	<datestamp>1264259220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I think part of the problem is that you will have a crunch time on a game. Because of the way game development works, you are almost certainly going to have a crunch time, and probalby a pretty heavy crunch time near the end. The long part of game development, where you are getting together idea, assets, an engine and such can take a number of years and be pretty normal. However, once you've got everything ready and it is time to put a game together, you are on the clock. You can't spend years in actual development, or your game will be dated when it comes out. You've got to get it all put together in short order.</p></div><p>This is only true because it's an arms race all of the development companies are involved in. If one company stopped the policy, they quickly wouldn't be able to compete with the shiny and new titles the other companies can put out. If they all stopped the policy together, everyone could compete on a level and more humane playing field. And we as consumers would probably get better games, if not quite so cool looking.</p><p>But good luck with that.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think part of the problem is that you will have a crunch time on a game .
Because of the way game development works , you are almost certainly going to have a crunch time , and probalby a pretty heavy crunch time near the end .
The long part of game development , where you are getting together idea , assets , an engine and such can take a number of years and be pretty normal .
However , once you 've got everything ready and it is time to put a game together , you are on the clock .
You ca n't spend years in actual development , or your game will be dated when it comes out .
You 've got to get it all put together in short order.This is only true because it 's an arms race all of the development companies are involved in .
If one company stopped the policy , they quickly would n't be able to compete with the shiny and new titles the other companies can put out .
If they all stopped the policy together , everyone could compete on a level and more humane playing field .
And we as consumers would probably get better games , if not quite so cool looking.But good luck with that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think part of the problem is that you will have a crunch time on a game.
Because of the way game development works, you are almost certainly going to have a crunch time, and probalby a pretty heavy crunch time near the end.
The long part of game development, where you are getting together idea, assets, an engine and such can take a number of years and be pretty normal.
However, once you've got everything ready and it is time to put a game together, you are on the clock.
You can't spend years in actual development, or your game will be dated when it comes out.
You've got to get it all put together in short order.This is only true because it's an arms race all of the development companies are involved in.
If one company stopped the policy, they quickly wouldn't be able to compete with the shiny and new titles the other companies can put out.
If they all stopped the policy together, everyone could compete on a level and more humane playing field.
And we as consumers would probably get better games, if not quite so cool looking.But good luck with that.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871790</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871712</id>
	<title>Common in all industy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264278780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Management must set realistic goals.  If they don't, they can get away with some short term 'crunching' but in the long run, the attrition rates will go through the roof and productivity will eventually settle down to where it should be.  NEVER plan a project with overtime included in the schedule.  ALWAYS look at past performance and DON'T try to improve upon it without a real plan.  Abusing your employees will result in health problems and increase your benefit premiums.  Eventually your reputation will tarnish and it will be difficult to find good people to work for you.  This stuff is all common sense but many people in management just don't have any.</p><p>JSL</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Management must set realistic goals .
If they do n't , they can get away with some short term 'crunching ' but in the long run , the attrition rates will go through the roof and productivity will eventually settle down to where it should be .
NEVER plan a project with overtime included in the schedule .
ALWAYS look at past performance and DO N'T try to improve upon it without a real plan .
Abusing your employees will result in health problems and increase your benefit premiums .
Eventually your reputation will tarnish and it will be difficult to find good people to work for you .
This stuff is all common sense but many people in management just do n't have any.JSL</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Management must set realistic goals.
If they don't, they can get away with some short term 'crunching' but in the long run, the attrition rates will go through the roof and productivity will eventually settle down to where it should be.
NEVER plan a project with overtime included in the schedule.
ALWAYS look at past performance and DON'T try to improve upon it without a real plan.
Abusing your employees will result in health problems and increase your benefit premiums.
Eventually your reputation will tarnish and it will be difficult to find good people to work for you.
This stuff is all common sense but many people in management just don't have any.JSL</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871290</id>
	<title>Re:Easy problem to solve</title>
	<author>Timothy Brownawell</author>
	<datestamp>1264276200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Only one of those over stressed people would need to report that to the DOJ. The laws on over time pay are laid out pretty clear, and this if true is not at all legal.</p></div><p>Except that those laws unfortunately <a href="http://www.flsa.com/computer.html" title="flsa.com">don't apply to programmers</a> [flsa.com].</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Only one of those over stressed people would need to report that to the DOJ .
The laws on over time pay are laid out pretty clear , and this if true is not at all legal.Except that those laws unfortunately do n't apply to programmers [ flsa.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Only one of those over stressed people would need to report that to the DOJ.
The laws on over time pay are laid out pretty clear, and this if true is not at all legal.Except that those laws unfortunately don't apply to programmers [flsa.com].
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871120</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873648</id>
	<title>Re:Say Wives....</title>
	<author>creimer</author>
	<datestamp>1264249620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>What about married female workers at Rockstar? Do their husbands say they are overworked?</i>
<br> <br>
Are you joking?  Secretaries, HR and marketing staffs worked 40 hours a week.  Any female programmers, artists or testers were single and worked the required 80 hours a week.  The only exception I can think of are the Latino janitors who work two or more jobs everyday regardless of sex or marital status.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What about married female workers at Rockstar ?
Do their husbands say they are overworked ?
Are you joking ?
Secretaries , HR and marketing staffs worked 40 hours a week .
Any female programmers , artists or testers were single and worked the required 80 hours a week .
The only exception I can think of are the Latino janitors who work two or more jobs everyday regardless of sex or marital status .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What about married female workers at Rockstar?
Do their husbands say they are overworked?
Are you joking?
Secretaries, HR and marketing staffs worked 40 hours a week.
Any female programmers, artists or testers were single and worked the required 80 hours a week.
The only exception I can think of are the Latino janitors who work two or more jobs everyday regardless of sex or marital status.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872596</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30874628</id>
	<title>Re:12 hour work days?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264258680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hmm... must be the result of your crunch time. No problem though. I'm sure your wife has out sourced her requirements elsewhere.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hmm... must be the result of your crunch time .
No problem though .
I 'm sure your wife has out sourced her requirements elsewhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hmm... must be the result of your crunch time.
No problem though.
I'm sure your wife has out sourced her requirements elsewhere.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872504</id>
	<title>Re:12 hour work days?</title>
	<author>mysidia</author>
	<datestamp>1264240980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
You insensitive clod!
Some of us have other things we value in our lives than work, sleeping, and eating.
</p><p>
For instance, the above provides no time for reading slashdot and commenting.
</p><p>
Besides the fact at R*  crunch time, developers are expected to eat while simultaneously working.
So even eating is not fulfilling.
</p><p>
And you've neglected the  3-4 hours required to commute between work and home.
Either that or you're assuming that sleeping at your desk is adequate and proper sleep.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You insensitive clod !
Some of us have other things we value in our lives than work , sleeping , and eating .
For instance , the above provides no time for reading slashdot and commenting .
Besides the fact at R * crunch time , developers are expected to eat while simultaneously working .
So even eating is not fulfilling .
And you 've neglected the 3-4 hours required to commute between work and home .
Either that or you 're assuming that sleeping at your desk is adequate and proper sleep .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
You insensitive clod!
Some of us have other things we value in our lives than work, sleeping, and eating.
For instance, the above provides no time for reading slashdot and commenting.
Besides the fact at R*  crunch time, developers are expected to eat while simultaneously working.
So even eating is not fulfilling.
And you've neglected the  3-4 hours required to commute between work and home.
Either that or you're assuming that sleeping at your desk is adequate and proper sleep.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30870978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30874066</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264253280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I found my current job by looking for an important position in a traditional and deeply unsexy industry, where most people don't want to work.</p><p>I haven't been required to work more than 40ish hours in 2 years or more, and because of the financial crisis overtime is \_forbidden\_.</p><p>It's a supply and demand thing.</p><p>Work in a "sexy" job that everybody wants (like gaming or Google) and supply/demand says you're gunna get screwed.</p><p>Work in an unsexy industry and supply/demand is in your favour, and you get treated well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I found my current job by looking for an important position in a traditional and deeply unsexy industry , where most people do n't want to work.I have n't been required to work more than 40ish hours in 2 years or more , and because of the financial crisis overtime is \ _forbidden \ _.It 's a supply and demand thing.Work in a " sexy " job that everybody wants ( like gaming or Google ) and supply/demand says you 're gunna get screwed.Work in an unsexy industry and supply/demand is in your favour , and you get treated well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I found my current job by looking for an important position in a traditional and deeply unsexy industry, where most people don't want to work.I haven't been required to work more than 40ish hours in 2 years or more, and because of the financial crisis overtime is \_forbidden\_.It's a supply and demand thing.Work in a "sexy" job that everybody wants (like gaming or Google) and supply/demand says you're gunna get screwed.Work in an unsexy industry and supply/demand is in your favour, and you get treated well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872800</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30876388</id>
	<title>Re:Easy problem to solve</title>
	<author>sitarlo</author>
	<datestamp>1264276440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You are both idiots.  Things like this are handled by state labor boards and the EEOC.  Usually, there's nothing in it for the employee.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You are both idiots .
Things like this are handled by state labor boards and the EEOC .
Usually , there 's nothing in it for the employee .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are both idiots.
Things like this are handled by state labor boards and the EEOC.
Usually, there's nothing in it for the employee.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871362</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871736</id>
	<title>Executives</title>
	<author>hackus</author>
	<datestamp>1264278840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I bet they get in at 8am, take their lunch and are home by 5PM.</p><p>I would bet on it, because I have never worked anywhere yet where executives work those sorts of hours.</p><p>If they do, they are small privately held companies and not publicly traded.</p><p>The only time I ever put those sort of hours in where for myself, at about $100 an hour.</p><p>There is no way I will ever do that for a corporation.  In fact, as an individual, if you are seriously considering wrecking your health or your personal family relationships at that sort of work pace, why the hell would you do it for a corporation instead of your own private business?</p><p>Dumb.</p><p>-Hack</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I bet they get in at 8am , take their lunch and are home by 5PM.I would bet on it , because I have never worked anywhere yet where executives work those sorts of hours.If they do , they are small privately held companies and not publicly traded.The only time I ever put those sort of hours in where for myself , at about $ 100 an hour.There is no way I will ever do that for a corporation .
In fact , as an individual , if you are seriously considering wrecking your health or your personal family relationships at that sort of work pace , why the hell would you do it for a corporation instead of your own private business ? Dumb.-Hack</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I bet they get in at 8am, take their lunch and are home by 5PM.I would bet on it, because I have never worked anywhere yet where executives work those sorts of hours.If they do, they are small privately held companies and not publicly traded.The only time I ever put those sort of hours in where for myself, at about $100 an hour.There is no way I will ever do that for a corporation.
In fact, as an individual, if you are seriously considering wrecking your health or your personal family relationships at that sort of work pace, why the hell would you do it for a corporation instead of your own private business?Dumb.-Hack</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30874052</id>
	<title>Re:12 hour work days?</title>
	<author>Opportunist</author>
	<datestamp>1264253220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Who doesn't? It's all those mistresses that eat up all the time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Who does n't ?
It 's all those mistresses that eat up all the time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who doesn't?
It's all those mistresses that eat up all the time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871640</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>MemoryDragon</author>
	<datestamp>1264278300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually that attitude was exactly the reason why I never even considered going into games development.<br>I refuse to work in an industry which has a history of abusing its own employees up to levels where it becomes dangerous for your live.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually that attitude was exactly the reason why I never even considered going into games development.I refuse to work in an industry which has a history of abusing its own employees up to levels where it becomes dangerous for your live .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually that attitude was exactly the reason why I never even considered going into games development.I refuse to work in an industry which has a history of abusing its own employees up to levels where it becomes dangerous for your live.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30870998</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871414</id>
	<title>Re:Easy problem to solve</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264276920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Exempt employees are not entitled to overtime.</p><p>http://www.dol.gov/elaws/esa/flsa/screen75.asp</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Executive, administrative, professional and outside sales employees: (as defined in Department of Labor regulations) and who are paid on a salary basis are exempt from both the minimum wage and overtime provisions of the FLSA.</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Exempt employees are not entitled to overtime.http : //www.dol.gov/elaws/esa/flsa/screen75.aspExecutive , administrative , professional and outside sales employees : ( as defined in Department of Labor regulations ) and who are paid on a salary basis are exempt from both the minimum wage and overtime provisions of the FLSA .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exempt employees are not entitled to overtime.http://www.dol.gov/elaws/esa/flsa/screen75.aspExecutive, administrative, professional and outside sales employees: (as defined in Department of Labor regulations) and who are paid on a salary basis are exempt from both the minimum wage and overtime provisions of the FLSA.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871120</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30875212</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>Nursie</author>
	<datestamp>1264263840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You'd lose that bet.<br>
&nbsp; <br>I work 37 hours a week. A few more (up to 50) when absolutely necessary. I think there were four weeks I did that last year.<br>
&nbsp; <br>Our  software is doing great, the company is doing great and I'm getting paid well, raises and a promotion last year.<br>
&nbsp; <br>I'd recommend you find other work. Or maybe move to europe<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 'd lose that bet .
  I work 37 hours a week .
A few more ( up to 50 ) when absolutely necessary .
I think there were four weeks I did that last year .
  Our software is doing great , the company is doing great and I 'm getting paid well , raises and a promotion last year .
  I 'd recommend you find other work .
Or maybe move to europe : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You'd lose that bet.
  I work 37 hours a week.
A few more (up to 50) when absolutely necessary.
I think there were four weeks I did that last year.
  Our  software is doing great, the company is doing great and I'm getting paid well, raises and a promotion last year.
  I'd recommend you find other work.
Or maybe move to europe :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872800</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871882</id>
	<title>Re:Welcome to Capitalism</title>
	<author>alphaseven</author>
	<datestamp>1264279680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>That's the way it is - it's profitable for the company with no downside.


The only option is for employees to show that it will cost them in the long run through turnover and training new employees.


Alternately, unionization or government regulation are the only other options.</p></div><p>The problem isn't capitalism, it's just bad management at that specific develooper. Here's part of <a href="http://www.edge-online.com/features/post-mortem-why-cod4-looks-so-hot" title="edge-online.com">interview</a> [edge-online.com] with someone from one of the most successful developers right, Infinity Ward (who did Call of Duty 4 and Modern Warfare 2).</p><p><div class="quote"><p>we schedule our projects well so there is never a feeling of "oh crap, this whole project is going to hell"; we reward our employees for their hard work with significant royalties; we usually make games on a relatively fast (but not rushed) two-year dev cycle; we almost never have forced crunch - in fact I've worked one full Saturday plus a few scattered weekend hours in the entire six years I've been at Infinity Ward.</p>  </div><p>I'm not a executive, but I would think Rockstar would be better off by hiring the best, paying them well and not overworking them so they can have a low turnover. I keep reading the same articles about "crunch time" and underpayed employees then later I read about the same companies having financial problems (EA in particular but also Rockstar).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's the way it is - it 's profitable for the company with no downside .
The only option is for employees to show that it will cost them in the long run through turnover and training new employees .
Alternately , unionization or government regulation are the only other options.The problem is n't capitalism , it 's just bad management at that specific develooper .
Here 's part of interview [ edge-online.com ] with someone from one of the most successful developers right , Infinity Ward ( who did Call of Duty 4 and Modern Warfare 2 ) .we schedule our projects well so there is never a feeling of " oh crap , this whole project is going to hell " ; we reward our employees for their hard work with significant royalties ; we usually make games on a relatively fast ( but not rushed ) two-year dev cycle ; we almost never have forced crunch - in fact I 've worked one full Saturday plus a few scattered weekend hours in the entire six years I 've been at Infinity Ward .
I 'm not a executive , but I would think Rockstar would be better off by hiring the best , paying them well and not overworking them so they can have a low turnover .
I keep reading the same articles about " crunch time " and underpayed employees then later I read about the same companies having financial problems ( EA in particular but also Rockstar ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's the way it is - it's profitable for the company with no downside.
The only option is for employees to show that it will cost them in the long run through turnover and training new employees.
Alternately, unionization or government regulation are the only other options.The problem isn't capitalism, it's just bad management at that specific develooper.
Here's part of interview [edge-online.com] with someone from one of the most successful developers right, Infinity Ward (who did Call of Duty 4 and Modern Warfare 2).we schedule our projects well so there is never a feeling of "oh crap, this whole project is going to hell"; we reward our employees for their hard work with significant royalties; we usually make games on a relatively fast (but not rushed) two-year dev cycle; we almost never have forced crunch - in fact I've worked one full Saturday plus a few scattered weekend hours in the entire six years I've been at Infinity Ward.
I'm not a executive, but I would think Rockstar would be better off by hiring the best, paying them well and not overworking them so they can have a low turnover.
I keep reading the same articles about "crunch time" and underpayed employees then later I read about the same companies having financial problems (EA in particular but also Rockstar).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871332</id>
	<title>Re:programmers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264276440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree... As a young engineer I tried to prove myself by trying to finish up early and what happens is that they give you more and more until burnout.  Once you wise up, you just deliver your 40 hours and leave.  When they ask you how long a task takes, you frame it within the fact that you now no longer work longer than 40 hours a week no matter what they expect.  If they demand you work "longer" then you still just tell them the amount of work that can be done in 40 hours and sit on your ass the rest of the "extra" time.  Bullying engineers only works on the young inexperienced ones.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree... As a young engineer I tried to prove myself by trying to finish up early and what happens is that they give you more and more until burnout .
Once you wise up , you just deliver your 40 hours and leave .
When they ask you how long a task takes , you frame it within the fact that you now no longer work longer than 40 hours a week no matter what they expect .
If they demand you work " longer " then you still just tell them the amount of work that can be done in 40 hours and sit on your ass the rest of the " extra " time .
Bullying engineers only works on the young inexperienced ones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree... As a young engineer I tried to prove myself by trying to finish up early and what happens is that they give you more and more until burnout.
Once you wise up, you just deliver your 40 hours and leave.
When they ask you how long a task takes, you frame it within the fact that you now no longer work longer than 40 hours a week no matter what they expect.
If they demand you work "longer" then you still just tell them the amount of work that can be done in 40 hours and sit on your ass the rest of the "extra" time.
Bullying engineers only works on the young inexperienced ones.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871054</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873542</id>
	<title>Re:EA still like this</title>
	<author>creimer</author>
	<datestamp>1264248840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I knew one crazy bastard who worked a 120 hours per week for six months as a video game tester and then spent the next six months taking 25 units at college.  Managed to get through school without any student loans that way.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I knew one crazy bastard who worked a 120 hours per week for six months as a video game tester and then spent the next six months taking 25 units at college .
Managed to get through school without any student loans that way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I knew one crazy bastard who worked a 120 hours per week for six months as a video game tester and then spent the next six months taking 25 units at college.
Managed to get through school without any student loans that way.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871662</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871240</id>
	<title>Unions</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264275840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So why are Americans so hostile to Unions again? Short of quitting (and that may not be an option for people with families to support), negotiation is the only solution, and to negotiate you have to have something to bargain with, and that thing is called a strike.<br>Personally I would never tolerate such a situation. There's a limit to what the company you work for can demand of you, and this kind of paid (and apparently sometimes unpaid) slavery is going way over the line.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So why are Americans so hostile to Unions again ?
Short of quitting ( and that may not be an option for people with families to support ) , negotiation is the only solution , and to negotiate you have to have something to bargain with , and that thing is called a strike.Personally I would never tolerate such a situation .
There 's a limit to what the company you work for can demand of you , and this kind of paid ( and apparently sometimes unpaid ) slavery is going way over the line .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So why are Americans so hostile to Unions again?
Short of quitting (and that may not be an option for people with families to support), negotiation is the only solution, and to negotiate you have to have something to bargain with, and that thing is called a strike.Personally I would never tolerate such a situation.
There's a limit to what the company you work for can demand of you, and this kind of paid (and apparently sometimes unpaid) slavery is going way over the line.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871188</id>
	<title>Continuous crunch means only one thing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264275480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A crunch here and there, a weekend spent few times a year is OK.</p><p>A continuous crunch-time often means only one thing: bad management and bad planning.</p><p>Maybe management does not believe realistic plans. Maybe project managers do not tell the correct estimates, in order to look good.</p><p>If I were the owner of Rockstar Games, I'd do some serious introspection of the business practises. I'd lay off the people who fuck things up bad enough so that continuous crunch is a necessity. Otherwise, the future of that company is lost.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A crunch here and there , a weekend spent few times a year is OK.A continuous crunch-time often means only one thing : bad management and bad planning.Maybe management does not believe realistic plans .
Maybe project managers do not tell the correct estimates , in order to look good.If I were the owner of Rockstar Games , I 'd do some serious introspection of the business practises .
I 'd lay off the people who fuck things up bad enough so that continuous crunch is a necessity .
Otherwise , the future of that company is lost .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A crunch here and there, a weekend spent few times a year is OK.A continuous crunch-time often means only one thing: bad management and bad planning.Maybe management does not believe realistic plans.
Maybe project managers do not tell the correct estimates, in order to look good.If I were the owner of Rockstar Games, I'd do some serious introspection of the business practises.
I'd lay off the people who fuck things up bad enough so that continuous crunch is a necessity.
Otherwise, the future of that company is lost.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873462</id>
	<title>Re:No incentive to avoid crunch aside from bad pre</title>
	<author>MartinSchou</author>
	<datestamp>1264248120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>[...] I can tell you that as far as the CEO / corporate level management are concerned, they just want to see a game get done on time and on budget [...]</p></div></blockquote><p>Well, that is rather easy to do if you can make your employees work 12 hours a day, 6 days a week and not pay overtime.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>[ ... ] I can tell you that as far as the CEO / corporate level management are concerned , they just want to see a game get done on time and on budget [ ... ] Well , that is rather easy to do if you can make your employees work 12 hours a day , 6 days a week and not pay overtime .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>[...] I can tell you that as far as the CEO / corporate level management are concerned, they just want to see a game get done on time and on budget [...]Well, that is rather easy to do if you can make your employees work 12 hours a day, 6 days a week and not pay overtime.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871606</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871094</id>
	<title>EA still like this</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264274880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A friend of mine was, at 29, a 10 year veteran of EA and in team management position.  He left when his boss met him coming in one morning and said "Hey!  Look, we redid your office!  Isn't it awesome?  Look, the couch folds out into a bed!"  He said this sort of thing was well understood at EA to mean that he wasn't spending enough time in the office, and quit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A friend of mine was , at 29 , a 10 year veteran of EA and in team management position .
He left when his boss met him coming in one morning and said " Hey !
Look , we redid your office !
Is n't it awesome ?
Look , the couch folds out into a bed !
" He said this sort of thing was well understood at EA to mean that he was n't spending enough time in the office , and quit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A friend of mine was, at 29, a 10 year veteran of EA and in team management position.
He left when his boss met him coming in one morning and said "Hey!
Look, we redid your office!
Isn't it awesome?
Look, the couch folds out into a bed!
"  He said this sort of thing was well understood at EA to mean that he wasn't spending enough time in the office, and quit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871672</id>
	<title>What a bunch of whiny babies.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264278600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Give me a break, if you don't like your job then quit and get a different one. I used to be an Electrician in the Canadian Oil Patch, 24 days on, 3 days off / 12 to 16 hour days in -30 degree weather (during winter +24 to 30 during summer) and we didn't have a masseus. If you don't like your f*cking job then get a different one.. or maybe it's better to have your wives write letters on your behalf, because they've obviously got more cojones then the developers at Rockstar.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Give me a break , if you do n't like your job then quit and get a different one .
I used to be an Electrician in the Canadian Oil Patch , 24 days on , 3 days off / 12 to 16 hour days in -30 degree weather ( during winter + 24 to 30 during summer ) and we did n't have a masseus .
If you do n't like your f * cking job then get a different one.. or maybe it 's better to have your wives write letters on your behalf , because they 've obviously got more cojones then the developers at Rockstar .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Give me a break, if you don't like your job then quit and get a different one.
I used to be an Electrician in the Canadian Oil Patch, 24 days on, 3 days off / 12 to 16 hour days in -30 degree weather (during winter +24 to 30 during summer) and we didn't have a masseus.
If you don't like your f*cking job then get a different one.. or maybe it's better to have your wives write letters on your behalf, because they've obviously got more cojones then the developers at Rockstar.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873380</id>
	<title>Re:Sounds like..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264247520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One important difference: R* employees get paid *far* more.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One important difference : R * employees get paid * far * more .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One important difference: R* employees get paid *far* more.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871296</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872186</id>
	<title>Re:programmers</title>
	<author>interkin3tic</author>
	<datestamp>1264238640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Step 1: Be upfront and straightforward. Don't promise what you can't deliver.<br>Step 2: Dont' work more than 40 hours. Just leave after that.<br>Step 3: <b>?????<br>Step 4: </b>Profit<b>!!!!</b></p> </div><p>T,FTFY</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Step 1 : Be upfront and straightforward .
Do n't promise what you ca n't deliver.Step 2 : Dont ' work more than 40 hours .
Just leave after that.Step 3 : ? ? ? ?
? Step 4 : Profit ! ! ! !
T,FTFY</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Step 1: Be upfront and straightforward.
Don't promise what you can't deliver.Step 2: Dont' work more than 40 hours.
Just leave after that.Step 3: ????
?Step 4: Profit!!!!
T,FTFY
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871054</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30875310</id>
	<title>Bloodsuckers need to be held resposible</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264264800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hearing stories like this irks me to no end.  This type of treatment is rampant in IT.  What needs to happen is to start holding these companies resposible for this type of abuse.  Call it what it is.  It's abuse, it creates a purposeful hostile work environment, and it can both kill or destroy someone.  CEOs and managers need to be held criminally liable for this and thrown in jail.  No deadline, no app, no amount of money is worth the possible killing of someone through overwork, stress, the destruction of a marriage, the destruction of relationships etc.  Before someone says, "Then you should leave or get out of the business."  That is a copout!  That is excusing horrible narcistic behavior by blaming the victim, who may be trapped where they currently are--especially in the current job market (thanks to the Democrats, Republicans, and many of the obscenely greedy Wall Street mafia).</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hearing stories like this irks me to no end .
This type of treatment is rampant in IT .
What needs to happen is to start holding these companies resposible for this type of abuse .
Call it what it is .
It 's abuse , it creates a purposeful hostile work environment , and it can both kill or destroy someone .
CEOs and managers need to be held criminally liable for this and thrown in jail .
No deadline , no app , no amount of money is worth the possible killing of someone through overwork , stress , the destruction of a marriage , the destruction of relationships etc .
Before someone says , " Then you should leave or get out of the business .
" That is a copout !
That is excusing horrible narcistic behavior by blaming the victim , who may be trapped where they currently are--especially in the current job market ( thanks to the Democrats , Republicans , and many of the obscenely greedy Wall Street mafia ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hearing stories like this irks me to no end.
This type of treatment is rampant in IT.
What needs to happen is to start holding these companies resposible for this type of abuse.
Call it what it is.
It's abuse, it creates a purposeful hostile work environment, and it can both kill or destroy someone.
CEOs and managers need to be held criminally liable for this and thrown in jail.
No deadline, no app, no amount of money is worth the possible killing of someone through overwork, stress, the destruction of a marriage, the destruction of relationships etc.
Before someone says, "Then you should leave or get out of the business.
"  That is a copout!
That is excusing horrible narcistic behavior by blaming the victim, who may be trapped where they currently are--especially in the current job market (thanks to the Democrats, Republicans, and many of the obscenely greedy Wall Street mafia).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873150</id>
	<title>Re:Welcome to Capitalism</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264246080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or you can find a different job.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or you can find a different job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or you can find a different job.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873842</id>
	<title>Rockstar are TWATS</title>
	<author>Latinhypercube</author>
	<datestamp>1264251180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Rockstar are TWATS. Evident by the grade A shite they produce. Anybody working for them deserves what they get.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Rockstar are TWATS .
Evident by the grade A shite they produce .
Anybody working for them deserves what they get .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Rockstar are TWATS.
Evident by the grade A shite they produce.
Anybody working for them deserves what they get.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871708</id>
	<title>Re:Welcome to Capitalism</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264278720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>lol.  it's been tried.  i've had family from Czechoslovak Socialist Republic.  i have friends from Cuba.    one of my best friends has lived in Russia and East Berlin prior to the wall coming down.  I've had very long discussions about the differences, the upsides/downsides.</p><p>You're sales pitch isn't exactly overwhelming.</p><p>We're not talking about coal miners here. They're VIDEO GAME makers, and their young and dumb.</p><p>Now I have no problem with unions.  I'd say a few are absolutely necessary, and I'd join immediately.  But many are worthless, and constrain the individual worker as effectively as any government or corporate force.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>lol .
it 's been tried .
i 've had family from Czechoslovak Socialist Republic .
i have friends from Cuba .
one of my best friends has lived in Russia and East Berlin prior to the wall coming down .
I 've had very long discussions about the differences , the upsides/downsides.You 're sales pitch is n't exactly overwhelming.We 're not talking about coal miners here .
They 're VIDEO GAME makers , and their young and dumb.Now I have no problem with unions .
I 'd say a few are absolutely necessary , and I 'd join immediately .
But many are worthless , and constrain the individual worker as effectively as any government or corporate force .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>lol.
it's been tried.
i've had family from Czechoslovak Socialist Republic.
i have friends from Cuba.
one of my best friends has lived in Russia and East Berlin prior to the wall coming down.
I've had very long discussions about the differences, the upsides/downsides.You're sales pitch isn't exactly overwhelming.We're not talking about coal miners here.
They're VIDEO GAME makers, and their young and dumb.Now I have no problem with unions.
I'd say a few are absolutely necessary, and I'd join immediately.
But many are worthless, and constrain the individual worker as effectively as any government or corporate force.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30870998</id>
	<title>This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264274340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>'What makes R* crunch periods different then any other studio is that they tell you the game has to be finished in 6 months, so let's start our final push to get this awesome game out there! 6 months turns into 1 year, 1 year turns into 2.' Other comments reveal worker hopelessness and general mismanagement at the San Diego studio. This turmoil is affecting development on upcoming games as well."</p></div><p>He could be describing Electronic Arts. Look, the game industry has been run this way for the better part of thirty years. I worked as a coder for a couple of game companies back in the mid-eighties<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... and I left for the reasons described in the summary. Never looked back. As much as I enjoyed that line of work, management practices were abusive even then. The irony is that there's no real reason for it other than poor management. We know how to manage software projects well, we know that pushing programmers too hard does <i>not</i> result in any real savings. The problem is managers that use simple metrics like lines of code written per day to determine a developer's value. That's how you treat piece workers in a factory<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... and guess what, piece work is generally illegal. There's a reason for that.
<br> <br>
Jam up your development staff the way these outfits do, and you get poor quality code. It is inevitable, Mr. Anderson. The usual chain of events involves increased QA costs, continual rework, missed deadlines and lost customers. Yet they persist in this obviously defective approach, which to me indicates that upper management is hiring sadists to run their development teams.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>'What makes R * crunch periods different then any other studio is that they tell you the game has to be finished in 6 months , so let 's start our final push to get this awesome game out there !
6 months turns into 1 year , 1 year turns into 2 .
' Other comments reveal worker hopelessness and general mismanagement at the San Diego studio .
This turmoil is affecting development on upcoming games as well .
" He could be describing Electronic Arts .
Look , the game industry has been run this way for the better part of thirty years .
I worked as a coder for a couple of game companies back in the mid-eighties ... and I left for the reasons described in the summary .
Never looked back .
As much as I enjoyed that line of work , management practices were abusive even then .
The irony is that there 's no real reason for it other than poor management .
We know how to manage software projects well , we know that pushing programmers too hard does not result in any real savings .
The problem is managers that use simple metrics like lines of code written per day to determine a developer 's value .
That 's how you treat piece workers in a factory ... and guess what , piece work is generally illegal .
There 's a reason for that .
Jam up your development staff the way these outfits do , and you get poor quality code .
It is inevitable , Mr. Anderson. The usual chain of events involves increased QA costs , continual rework , missed deadlines and lost customers .
Yet they persist in this obviously defective approach , which to me indicates that upper management is hiring sadists to run their development teams .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'What makes R* crunch periods different then any other studio is that they tell you the game has to be finished in 6 months, so let's start our final push to get this awesome game out there!
6 months turns into 1 year, 1 year turns into 2.
' Other comments reveal worker hopelessness and general mismanagement at the San Diego studio.
This turmoil is affecting development on upcoming games as well.
"He could be describing Electronic Arts.
Look, the game industry has been run this way for the better part of thirty years.
I worked as a coder for a couple of game companies back in the mid-eighties ... and I left for the reasons described in the summary.
Never looked back.
As much as I enjoyed that line of work, management practices were abusive even then.
The irony is that there's no real reason for it other than poor management.
We know how to manage software projects well, we know that pushing programmers too hard does not result in any real savings.
The problem is managers that use simple metrics like lines of code written per day to determine a developer's value.
That's how you treat piece workers in a factory ... and guess what, piece work is generally illegal.
There's a reason for that.
Jam up your development staff the way these outfits do, and you get poor quality code.
It is inevitable, Mr. Anderson. The usual chain of events involves increased QA costs, continual rework, missed deadlines and lost customers.
Yet they persist in this obviously defective approach, which to me indicates that upper management is hiring sadists to run their development teams.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871354</id>
	<title>Their wives?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264276620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One must wonder if they are in the position they are in because they are the sort of guys that have to have their wives do the complaining for them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One must wonder if they are in the position they are in because they are the sort of guys that have to have their wives do the complaining for them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One must wonder if they are in the position they are in because they are the sort of guys that have to have their wives do the complaining for them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871602</id>
	<title>Re:programmers</title>
	<author>Blakey Rat</author>
	<datestamp>1264278120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>There's a regular Slashdot poster with a sig that says "Debt is slavery." It's no joke.</i></p><p>I think the point is "don't build up so much debt in the first place." Buy only what you can afford-- other than my mortgage payments, I have zero debt right now, and I have enough in savings to pay my mortgage for at least 3 years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's a regular Slashdot poster with a sig that says " Debt is slavery .
" It 's no joke.I think the point is " do n't build up so much debt in the first place .
" Buy only what you can afford-- other than my mortgage payments , I have zero debt right now , and I have enough in savings to pay my mortgage for at least 3 years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's a regular Slashdot poster with a sig that says "Debt is slavery.
" It's no joke.I think the point is "don't build up so much debt in the first place.
" Buy only what you can afford-- other than my mortgage payments, I have zero debt right now, and I have enough in savings to pay my mortgage for at least 3 years.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871434</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871682</id>
	<title>Overtime is free. Free stuff is good.</title>
	<author>rpieket</author>
	<datestamp>1264278600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The problem is not bad management, or workers accepting these practices.

The problem is that overtime is unpaid.

You see, if overtime is free for the employer, the employer would be unwise to not use this valuable, free resource. If a manager did not spur their workers to work nights and weekends, all year long, they could be accused of wasting resources. It's free, people! Use it as much as you can!

If employers would have to pay their workers for overtime, they would not ask them to work so many extra hours as a matter of course.

-Ron.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is not bad management , or workers accepting these practices .
The problem is that overtime is unpaid .
You see , if overtime is free for the employer , the employer would be unwise to not use this valuable , free resource .
If a manager did not spur their workers to work nights and weekends , all year long , they could be accused of wasting resources .
It 's free , people !
Use it as much as you can !
If employers would have to pay their workers for overtime , they would not ask them to work so many extra hours as a matter of course .
-Ron .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is not bad management, or workers accepting these practices.
The problem is that overtime is unpaid.
You see, if overtime is free for the employer, the employer would be unwise to not use this valuable, free resource.
If a manager did not spur their workers to work nights and weekends, all year long, they could be accused of wasting resources.
It's free, people!
Use it as much as you can!
If employers would have to pay their workers for overtime, they would not ask them to work so many extra hours as a matter of course.
-Ron.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30874950</id>
	<title>I have a simple solution</title>
	<author>melted</author>
	<datestamp>1264261620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Get a fucking life. Don't work 12 hour days. Don't come in on Saturday. You may be passed over for a promotion, but you won't be laid off. If you are, sue the sonofabitches and get your money that way. Then find a company that doesn't rape your ass for a paycheck. There are plenty of those around.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Get a fucking life .
Do n't work 12 hour days .
Do n't come in on Saturday .
You may be passed over for a promotion , but you wo n't be laid off .
If you are , sue the sonofabitches and get your money that way .
Then find a company that does n't rape your ass for a paycheck .
There are plenty of those around .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get a fucking life.
Don't work 12 hour days.
Don't come in on Saturday.
You may be passed over for a promotion, but you won't be laid off.
If you are, sue the sonofabitches and get your money that way.
Then find a company that doesn't rape your ass for a paycheck.
There are plenty of those around.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871670</id>
	<title>Re:12 hour work days?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264278600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah. Wives? girlfriends? Out-of-work relationships? That is why American IT industry lost the top spot to India! Where are all the geeks momma-basement's dwellers that made America the greatest? Bring them back! No real geek need life after work hours! After-work hours are for illiterate construction workers with their hot ghetto big tit big butt wives and 10 kids!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah .
Wives ? girlfriends ?
Out-of-work relationships ?
That is why American IT industry lost the top spot to India !
Where are all the geeks momma-basement 's dwellers that made America the greatest ?
Bring them back !
No real geek need life after work hours !
After-work hours are for illiterate construction workers with their hot ghetto big tit big butt wives and 10 kids !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah.
Wives? girlfriends?
Out-of-work relationships?
That is why American IT industry lost the top spot to India!
Where are all the geeks momma-basement's dwellers that made America the greatest?
Bring them back!
No real geek need life after work hours!
After-work hours are for illiterate construction workers with their hot ghetto big tit big butt wives and 10 kids!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30870978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873436</id>
	<title>Re:programmers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264247820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You might also not end up with the product you want. you forget that for most of these guys this is their life blood. They got the job because they are ready to put in that extra time to get the job done right. They also expect they will be rewarded for that work (true or not).</p><p>A lot of people on slashdot forget that not everyone in the world does everything for money.</p><p>Regardless exploitation of workers shouldn't be happening in any industry. I hope someone stands up and makes a change.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You might also not end up with the product you want .
you forget that for most of these guys this is their life blood .
They got the job because they are ready to put in that extra time to get the job done right .
They also expect they will be rewarded for that work ( true or not ) .A lot of people on slashdot forget that not everyone in the world does everything for money.Regardless exploitation of workers should n't be happening in any industry .
I hope someone stands up and makes a change .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You might also not end up with the product you want.
you forget that for most of these guys this is their life blood.
They got the job because they are ready to put in that extra time to get the job done right.
They also expect they will be rewarded for that work (true or not).A lot of people on slashdot forget that not everyone in the world does everything for money.Regardless exploitation of workers shouldn't be happening in any industry.
I hope someone stands up and makes a change.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871054</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871626</id>
	<title>GTA was meant to look like pikmin</title>
	<author>bazorg</author>
	<datestamp>1264278240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>GTA IV was originally meant to look like Pikmin but the employment conditions are so terrible that the work output shows what's on programmers' minds...</htmltext>
<tokenext>GTA IV was originally meant to look like Pikmin but the employment conditions are so terrible that the work output shows what 's on programmers ' minds.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>GTA IV was originally meant to look like Pikmin but the employment conditions are so terrible that the work output shows what's on programmers' minds...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871296</id>
	<title>Sounds like..</title>
	<author>cyberfunk2</author>
	<datestamp>1264276200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's funny.. working at R* sounds just like being a grad student.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's funny.. working at R * sounds just like being a grad student .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's funny.. working at R* sounds just like being a grad student.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873024</id>
	<title>Open letter to Rock Star Employees</title>
	<author>jason.sweet</author>
	<datestamp>1264245060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you regularly work more than 45 hours a week, you are doing it wrong.  There are exceptions, but they should be rare.  Get your priorities straight!<br>
If your job sucks, you are doing it wrong.  Fix it or get out!<br>
If your wife talks to your boss for you, you are doing it wrong.  Grow a pair for christ's sake!</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you regularly work more than 45 hours a week , you are doing it wrong .
There are exceptions , but they should be rare .
Get your priorities straight !
If your job sucks , you are doing it wrong .
Fix it or get out !
If your wife talks to your boss for you , you are doing it wrong .
Grow a pair for christ 's sake !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you regularly work more than 45 hours a week, you are doing it wrong.
There are exceptions, but they should be rare.
Get your priorities straight!
If your job sucks, you are doing it wrong.
Fix it or get out!
If your wife talks to your boss for you, you are doing it wrong.
Grow a pair for christ's sake!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30874472</id>
	<title>Those folks better get cracking...</title>
	<author>jskline</author>
	<datestamp>1264257000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You need to work real hard in an American company when your a coder. Especially if it's a company that saw huge returns on one of their programs. The greed has set in. Get your asses in gear. NOW. Or; or... we'll ship these jobs over to India or China!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You need to work real hard in an American company when your a coder .
Especially if it 's a company that saw huge returns on one of their programs .
The greed has set in .
Get your asses in gear .
NOW. Or ; or... we 'll ship these jobs over to India or China !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You need to work real hard in an American company when your a coder.
Especially if it's a company that saw huge returns on one of their programs.
The greed has set in.
Get your asses in gear.
NOW. Or; or... we'll ship these jobs over to India or China!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871120</id>
	<title>Easy problem to solve</title>
	<author>dissy</author>
	<datestamp>1264275060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Only one of those over stressed people would need to report that to the DOJ.  The laws on over time pay are laid out pretty clear, and this if true is not at all legal.</p><p>The employee that reports it is guaranteed to get 300\% of the income they legally are entitled to, as will all the others that come out in the DOJ investigation who wish to join.</p><p>Then there will be tons of fines towards the company measuring in the tens of millions of dollars.</p><p>I always love to see the excuses why particular members of management are allowed to remain on the payroll after costing the company tens of millions of dollars in illegal activities.</p><p>Unless the employees do not wish to start legal action.  Which means there is no problem at all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Only one of those over stressed people would need to report that to the DOJ .
The laws on over time pay are laid out pretty clear , and this if true is not at all legal.The employee that reports it is guaranteed to get 300 \ % of the income they legally are entitled to , as will all the others that come out in the DOJ investigation who wish to join.Then there will be tons of fines towards the company measuring in the tens of millions of dollars.I always love to see the excuses why particular members of management are allowed to remain on the payroll after costing the company tens of millions of dollars in illegal activities.Unless the employees do not wish to start legal action .
Which means there is no problem at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Only one of those over stressed people would need to report that to the DOJ.
The laws on over time pay are laid out pretty clear, and this if true is not at all legal.The employee that reports it is guaranteed to get 300\% of the income they legally are entitled to, as will all the others that come out in the DOJ investigation who wish to join.Then there will be tons of fines towards the company measuring in the tens of millions of dollars.I always love to see the excuses why particular members of management are allowed to remain on the payroll after costing the company tens of millions of dollars in illegal activities.Unless the employees do not wish to start legal action.
Which means there is no problem at all.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871530</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>sopssa</author>
	<datestamp>1264277700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In fact he could be describing <i>any</i> company working in <i>any</i> industry. I guess people still think game development is something glamorous, something like it was as a teenager when you had lots of fun ideas (or at least ideas that were fun for you). Fact is that it's an industry like any other. And maybe it should be too - look what happened to Duke Nukem Forever after 10 years. They missed the general professional guidelines. Sure it probably was tons of fun having strippers doing their thing in motion capture room and running the place as more developer hippy place, but the product never finished.</p><p>Maybe Rockstar is too much on the other edge, but doing a huge game like GTA requires pushing people to work on it.</p><p>Which is one of the reason I never really continued more into game development - at least I can still enjoy doing it at home for my own fun.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In fact he could be describing any company working in any industry .
I guess people still think game development is something glamorous , something like it was as a teenager when you had lots of fun ideas ( or at least ideas that were fun for you ) .
Fact is that it 's an industry like any other .
And maybe it should be too - look what happened to Duke Nukem Forever after 10 years .
They missed the general professional guidelines .
Sure it probably was tons of fun having strippers doing their thing in motion capture room and running the place as more developer hippy place , but the product never finished.Maybe Rockstar is too much on the other edge , but doing a huge game like GTA requires pushing people to work on it.Which is one of the reason I never really continued more into game development - at least I can still enjoy doing it at home for my own fun .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In fact he could be describing any company working in any industry.
I guess people still think game development is something glamorous, something like it was as a teenager when you had lots of fun ideas (or at least ideas that were fun for you).
Fact is that it's an industry like any other.
And maybe it should be too - look what happened to Duke Nukem Forever after 10 years.
They missed the general professional guidelines.
Sure it probably was tons of fun having strippers doing their thing in motion capture room and running the place as more developer hippy place, but the product never finished.Maybe Rockstar is too much on the other edge, but doing a huge game like GTA requires pushing people to work on it.Which is one of the reason I never really continued more into game development - at least I can still enjoy doing it at home for my own fun.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30870998</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30874880</id>
	<title>12 hours?</title>
	<author>cyn1c77</author>
	<datestamp>1264261020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>12-hour work days and 6-day weeks</p></div><p>Come on.  That is my regular work schedule plus a few more hours in the evening when I feel like it.  It's what comes with having exempt pay status.  Only in California is that considered inhumane.  If they employees don't like it, they should get another job that pays more or has better hours.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>12-hour work days and 6-day weeksCome on .
That is my regular work schedule plus a few more hours in the evening when I feel like it .
It 's what comes with having exempt pay status .
Only in California is that considered inhumane .
If they employees do n't like it , they should get another job that pays more or has better hours .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>12-hour work days and 6-day weeksCome on.
That is my regular work schedule plus a few more hours in the evening when I feel like it.
It's what comes with having exempt pay status.
Only in California is that considered inhumane.
If they employees don't like it, they should get another job that pays more or has better hours.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872720</id>
	<title>Re:Let's try this again ...</title>
	<author>eulernet</author>
	<datestamp>1264242780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Check my reply to your anonymous post above.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Check my reply to your anonymous post above .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Check my reply to your anonymous post above.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871130</id>
	<title>Union, Yes!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264275120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Those guys need to unionize.  They need <a href="http://www.animationguild.org/" title="animationguild.org">The Animation Guild</a> [animationguild.org], Local 839, IATSE. The Animation Guild represents Hollywood cartoonists at Cartoon Network, Fox, Disney, ILM, MGM, Universal, Warner, etc. Here's their <a href="http://www.animationguild.org/\_Contract/contract\_pdf/AnimationGuildCBA.pdf" title="animationguild.org">current standard contract.</a> [animationguild.org] They get the traditional time and a half for overtime after 8 hours or five days, double time after 6 days.
</p><p>
That's what prevents "crunches".  The film industry has "crunches", but they cost the production money, so considerable effort is made by producers to avoid them.
</p><p>
The jobs performed by Animation Guild and IATSE members are very similar to those of many game developers, especially on the art side.
</p><p>
The best time to organize is during a "crunch".  Management isn't in a good position to face a strike.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Those guys need to unionize .
They need The Animation Guild [ animationguild.org ] , Local 839 , IATSE .
The Animation Guild represents Hollywood cartoonists at Cartoon Network , Fox , Disney , ILM , MGM , Universal , Warner , etc .
Here 's their current standard contract .
[ animationguild.org ] They get the traditional time and a half for overtime after 8 hours or five days , double time after 6 days .
That 's what prevents " crunches " .
The film industry has " crunches " , but they cost the production money , so considerable effort is made by producers to avoid them .
The jobs performed by Animation Guild and IATSE members are very similar to those of many game developers , especially on the art side .
The best time to organize is during a " crunch " .
Management is n't in a good position to face a strike .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Those guys need to unionize.
They need The Animation Guild [animationguild.org], Local 839, IATSE.
The Animation Guild represents Hollywood cartoonists at Cartoon Network, Fox, Disney, ILM, MGM, Universal, Warner, etc.
Here's their current standard contract.
[animationguild.org] They get the traditional time and a half for overtime after 8 hours or five days, double time after 6 days.
That's what prevents "crunches".
The film industry has "crunches", but they cost the production money, so considerable effort is made by producers to avoid them.
The jobs performed by Animation Guild and IATSE members are very similar to those of many game developers, especially on the art side.
The best time to organize is during a "crunch".
Management isn't in a good position to face a strike.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30888488</id>
	<title>Re:Old addage about complaining...</title>
	<author>Jedi Alec</author>
	<datestamp>1264426080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Indeed. God forbid they convince management that using 40 FTE (every last one of them exhausted, pissed off and planning to leave asap) to churn out a crappy product might not be as good an idea as using 50 happy FTE to produce a good product. And hey, you might even turn out to be one of the missing 10!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Indeed .
God forbid they convince management that using 40 FTE ( every last one of them exhausted , pissed off and planning to leave asap ) to churn out a crappy product might not be as good an idea as using 50 happy FTE to produce a good product .
And hey , you might even turn out to be one of the missing 10 !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Indeed.
God forbid they convince management that using 40 FTE (every last one of them exhausted, pissed off and planning to leave asap) to churn out a crappy product might not be as good an idea as using 50 happy FTE to produce a good product.
And hey, you might even turn out to be one of the missing 10!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871632</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873352</id>
	<title>I've been there</title>
	<author>Locke2005</author>
	<datestamp>1264247280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've worked 80-hour weeks, and made the following observations: 1) Doing it for a couple weeks is generally ok. Do it for more than 3 or 4 weeks in a row, and it does begin to have serious health side effects. 2) After about 12 hours, your error rate goes increases to the point where you are probably doing more harm than good 3) The best code gets done when people have a chance to step back, reflect on what they are doing, and brainstorm on more efficient ways to reach their goal ("sharpen their axe", so to speak), rather than just keep plugging away at what their first guess for a correct approach was. Sure, sometimes I change my mind too much when faced with a number of equally valid methods, but in general allowing people to actually think about what they are doing does produce better product. These observations apply to development, the experience of managers, QA, or testing may be different.<br> <br>
One of the most destructing things to productivity is bad management. Shortly after I was moved between two teams in the same group at Intel, I asked my team manager if I could take a day off (without pay) to go on a Mt. St. Helens climb with my old team. He refused, claiming "We're doing a new release that day and we need you around to test it." (I was a developer, not a tester. Also, I was a contractor, so technically I could have just told him "fuck you!" and gone anyway.) So, I come in, and wait around for the release. Around 4:30, they finally got the build to work! That's right - I missed out on a team building excursion with a majority of the group so that I could sit around all day doing nothing! It's things like that that make you start looking for a new position; shortly after that, I found one, and announced "It should come as no surprise to anyone that I've found a better place to work."</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've worked 80-hour weeks , and made the following observations : 1 ) Doing it for a couple weeks is generally ok. Do it for more than 3 or 4 weeks in a row , and it does begin to have serious health side effects .
2 ) After about 12 hours , your error rate goes increases to the point where you are probably doing more harm than good 3 ) The best code gets done when people have a chance to step back , reflect on what they are doing , and brainstorm on more efficient ways to reach their goal ( " sharpen their axe " , so to speak ) , rather than just keep plugging away at what their first guess for a correct approach was .
Sure , sometimes I change my mind too much when faced with a number of equally valid methods , but in general allowing people to actually think about what they are doing does produce better product .
These observations apply to development , the experience of managers , QA , or testing may be different .
One of the most destructing things to productivity is bad management .
Shortly after I was moved between two teams in the same group at Intel , I asked my team manager if I could take a day off ( without pay ) to go on a Mt .
St. Helens climb with my old team .
He refused , claiming " We 're doing a new release that day and we need you around to test it .
" ( I was a developer , not a tester .
Also , I was a contractor , so technically I could have just told him " fuck you !
" and gone anyway .
) So , I come in , and wait around for the release .
Around 4 : 30 , they finally got the build to work !
That 's right - I missed out on a team building excursion with a majority of the group so that I could sit around all day doing nothing !
It 's things like that that make you start looking for a new position ; shortly after that , I found one , and announced " It should come as no surprise to anyone that I 've found a better place to work .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've worked 80-hour weeks, and made the following observations: 1) Doing it for a couple weeks is generally ok. Do it for more than 3 or 4 weeks in a row, and it does begin to have serious health side effects.
2) After about 12 hours, your error rate goes increases to the point where you are probably doing more harm than good 3) The best code gets done when people have a chance to step back, reflect on what they are doing, and brainstorm on more efficient ways to reach their goal ("sharpen their axe", so to speak), rather than just keep plugging away at what their first guess for a correct approach was.
Sure, sometimes I change my mind too much when faced with a number of equally valid methods, but in general allowing people to actually think about what they are doing does produce better product.
These observations apply to development, the experience of managers, QA, or testing may be different.
One of the most destructing things to productivity is bad management.
Shortly after I was moved between two teams in the same group at Intel, I asked my team manager if I could take a day off (without pay) to go on a Mt.
St. Helens climb with my old team.
He refused, claiming "We're doing a new release that day and we need you around to test it.
" (I was a developer, not a tester.
Also, I was a contractor, so technically I could have just told him "fuck you!
" and gone anyway.
) So, I come in, and wait around for the release.
Around 4:30, they finally got the build to work!
That's right - I missed out on a team building excursion with a majority of the group so that I could sit around all day doing nothing!
It's things like that that make you start looking for a new position; shortly after that, I found one, and announced "It should come as no surprise to anyone that I've found a better place to work.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871554</id>
	<title>Re:This is why I left the games industry.</title>
	<author>genjix</author>
	<datestamp>1264277880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Same story here.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Same story here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Same story here.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30876038</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264271640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>China overtook Germany in exports this year.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>China overtook Germany in exports this year .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>China overtook Germany in exports this year.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872800</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871790</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>Sycraft-fu</author>
	<datestamp>1264279200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think part of the problem is that you will have a crunch time on a game. Because of the way game development works, you are almost certainly going to have a crunch time, and probalby a pretty heavy crunch time near the end. The long part of game development, where you are getting together idea, assets, an engine and such can take a number of years and be pretty normal. However, once you've got everything ready and it is time to put a game together, you are on the clock. You can't spend years in actual development, or your game will be dated when it comes out. You've got to get it all put together in short order.</p><p>Ok well that leads to some crunching. Also, in most cases you probably have a commitment to distributors and such to be ready on a certain date, and as such may have to crunch even harder near the end.</p><p>That's all well and good, and many jobs have short crunch times. My job has a crunch time at the beginning of every semester when students are coming back and professors are finally getting around to asking for software for classes.</p><p>The problem then comes in that management sees the amount of work that gets done in a crunch and says "Man, we could get so much done if we worked like that ALL THE TIME!" Of course there are tons of problems with this that are easy to see, but they ignore that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think part of the problem is that you will have a crunch time on a game .
Because of the way game development works , you are almost certainly going to have a crunch time , and probalby a pretty heavy crunch time near the end .
The long part of game development , where you are getting together idea , assets , an engine and such can take a number of years and be pretty normal .
However , once you 've got everything ready and it is time to put a game together , you are on the clock .
You ca n't spend years in actual development , or your game will be dated when it comes out .
You 've got to get it all put together in short order.Ok well that leads to some crunching .
Also , in most cases you probably have a commitment to distributors and such to be ready on a certain date , and as such may have to crunch even harder near the end.That 's all well and good , and many jobs have short crunch times .
My job has a crunch time at the beginning of every semester when students are coming back and professors are finally getting around to asking for software for classes.The problem then comes in that management sees the amount of work that gets done in a crunch and says " Man , we could get so much done if we worked like that ALL THE TIME !
" Of course there are tons of problems with this that are easy to see , but they ignore that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think part of the problem is that you will have a crunch time on a game.
Because of the way game development works, you are almost certainly going to have a crunch time, and probalby a pretty heavy crunch time near the end.
The long part of game development, where you are getting together idea, assets, an engine and such can take a number of years and be pretty normal.
However, once you've got everything ready and it is time to put a game together, you are on the clock.
You can't spend years in actual development, or your game will be dated when it comes out.
You've got to get it all put together in short order.Ok well that leads to some crunching.
Also, in most cases you probably have a commitment to distributors and such to be ready on a certain date, and as such may have to crunch even harder near the end.That's all well and good, and many jobs have short crunch times.
My job has a crunch time at the beginning of every semester when students are coming back and professors are finally getting around to asking for software for classes.The problem then comes in that management sees the amount of work that gets done in a crunch and says "Man, we could get so much done if we worked like that ALL THE TIME!
" Of course there are tons of problems with this that are easy to see, but they ignore that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30870998</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30898856</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>cheekyboy</author>
	<datestamp>1264428240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>75\% taxes are evil evil evil. So if the 25\% ON TOP of 50\% costs me say 30k in taxes, I will be willing to spend $5k on a jewish accountant to minimize that by 25k.</p><p>All that 75\% does is put a ceiling on 'cash' salary, and places the rest of renumuation into under the counter 'gifts'.</p><p>Anything higher than 40\% is pure THEFT. Governments dont need that much revenue, if they do, then they are too big and wasteful.</p><p>Unless the 75\% rate is for huge salaries, such as 3m dollars, then its a mafia style theft. Worse than mafia.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>75 \ % taxes are evil evil evil .
So if the 25 \ % ON TOP of 50 \ % costs me say 30k in taxes , I will be willing to spend $ 5k on a jewish accountant to minimize that by 25k.All that 75 \ % does is put a ceiling on 'cash ' salary , and places the rest of renumuation into under the counter 'gifts'.Anything higher than 40 \ % is pure THEFT .
Governments dont need that much revenue , if they do , then they are too big and wasteful.Unless the 75 \ % rate is for huge salaries , such as 3m dollars , then its a mafia style theft .
Worse than mafia .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>75\% taxes are evil evil evil.
So if the 25\% ON TOP of 50\% costs me say 30k in taxes, I will be willing to spend $5k on a jewish accountant to minimize that by 25k.All that 75\% does is put a ceiling on 'cash' salary, and places the rest of renumuation into under the counter 'gifts'.Anything higher than 40\% is pure THEFT.
Governments dont need that much revenue, if they do, then they are too big and wasteful.Unless the 75\% rate is for huge salaries, such as 3m dollars, then its a mafia style theft.
Worse than mafia.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872800</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873962</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>poopdeville</author>
	<datestamp>1264252320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>I've had half a dozen jobs over a couple decades or so and never had to work crazy hours for more than a handful of days at a stretch.</i></p><p>WTF?  I've never pulled an all-nighter for work.  And I never will.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've had half a dozen jobs over a couple decades or so and never had to work crazy hours for more than a handful of days at a stretch.WTF ?
I 've never pulled an all-nighter for work .
And I never will .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've had half a dozen jobs over a couple decades or so and never had to work crazy hours for more than a handful of days at a stretch.WTF?
I've never pulled an all-nighter for work.
And I never will.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873684</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871460</id>
	<title>Steven Levy reported the changeover in "Hackers"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264277220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Required reading for the Period It All Changed is Steven Levy's book "Hackers".   He focused on Sierra On-Line, which started off programming Apple ][ games in assembler, with founder Ken Williams as programmer/guru to houseloads of teenage programmers that were making up to a quarter-mill a year (in 1983 dollars) for inventing Frogger and the like, because Williams gave percentages of what the game made to the developers.</p><p>This changed at remarkable speed to a market where the owners of capital got everything but "what the traffic will bear" in terms of how little programmers would work for.</p><p>And young people doing something that gives them a buzz (and, let's face it, fellow addicts, writing an elegant algorithm, solving a knotty problem, producing a slick-looking result on-screen, especially in a problem area where the output is intensely visual...there's no buzz like it) will work for pretty much nothing.</p><p>And, no, my "owners of capital" term isn't the start of some socialist screed.  The critics are right: the workers can just walk away any time they come to their senses.   The profit split may resemble a 19th-century company town by a coal mine, but "Labour" here isn't some hapless bunch of illiterates with no options; they just have to accept that they're being "paid" in buzz, and any time they want to switch over to money, they can go program payroll systems.</p><p>There's some buzz there, too, believe it or not, you find elegant algorithms, and user interfaces that match the human intuition and expectations hand-in-glove, in lots of places.  And you're home by six, good paycheque warm in your pocket.</p><p>There are satisfactions, too, in being part of actually building the Real World, not just amusing people with fantasy ones.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Required reading for the Period It All Changed is Steven Levy 's book " Hackers " .
He focused on Sierra On-Line , which started off programming Apple ] [ games in assembler , with founder Ken Williams as programmer/guru to houseloads of teenage programmers that were making up to a quarter-mill a year ( in 1983 dollars ) for inventing Frogger and the like , because Williams gave percentages of what the game made to the developers.This changed at remarkable speed to a market where the owners of capital got everything but " what the traffic will bear " in terms of how little programmers would work for.And young people doing something that gives them a buzz ( and , let 's face it , fellow addicts , writing an elegant algorithm , solving a knotty problem , producing a slick-looking result on-screen , especially in a problem area where the output is intensely visual...there 's no buzz like it ) will work for pretty much nothing.And , no , my " owners of capital " term is n't the start of some socialist screed .
The critics are right : the workers can just walk away any time they come to their senses .
The profit split may resemble a 19th-century company town by a coal mine , but " Labour " here is n't some hapless bunch of illiterates with no options ; they just have to accept that they 're being " paid " in buzz , and any time they want to switch over to money , they can go program payroll systems.There 's some buzz there , too , believe it or not , you find elegant algorithms , and user interfaces that match the human intuition and expectations hand-in-glove , in lots of places .
And you 're home by six , good paycheque warm in your pocket.There are satisfactions , too , in being part of actually building the Real World , not just amusing people with fantasy ones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Required reading for the Period It All Changed is Steven Levy's book "Hackers".
He focused on Sierra On-Line, which started off programming Apple ][ games in assembler, with founder Ken Williams as programmer/guru to houseloads of teenage programmers that were making up to a quarter-mill a year (in 1983 dollars) for inventing Frogger and the like, because Williams gave percentages of what the game made to the developers.This changed at remarkable speed to a market where the owners of capital got everything but "what the traffic will bear" in terms of how little programmers would work for.And young people doing something that gives them a buzz (and, let's face it, fellow addicts, writing an elegant algorithm, solving a knotty problem, producing a slick-looking result on-screen, especially in a problem area where the output is intensely visual...there's no buzz like it) will work for pretty much nothing.And, no, my "owners of capital" term isn't the start of some socialist screed.
The critics are right: the workers can just walk away any time they come to their senses.
The profit split may resemble a 19th-century company town by a coal mine, but "Labour" here isn't some hapless bunch of illiterates with no options; they just have to accept that they're being "paid" in buzz, and any time they want to switch over to money, they can go program payroll systems.There's some buzz there, too, believe it or not, you find elegant algorithms, and user interfaces that match the human intuition and expectations hand-in-glove, in lots of places.
And you're home by six, good paycheque warm in your pocket.There are satisfactions, too, in being part of actually building the Real World, not just amusing people with fantasy ones.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871086</id>
	<title>Old News?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264274880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Didn't this same story run two or three years ago? Game developer's wives complaining about their overworked husbands? I'm sure I saw this in 2007.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did n't this same story run two or three years ago ?
Game developer 's wives complaining about their overworked husbands ?
I 'm sure I saw this in 2007 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Didn't this same story run two or three years ago?
Game developer's wives complaining about their overworked husbands?
I'm sure I saw this in 2007.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872434</id>
	<title>Re:Union, Yes!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264240500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They're way too stupid to do anything like that. And thus deserve every kick in the crotch they're getting.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They 're way too stupid to do anything like that .
And thus deserve every kick in the crotch they 're getting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They're way too stupid to do anything like that.
And thus deserve every kick in the crotch they're getting.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871130</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872596</id>
	<title>Say Wives....</title>
	<author>mysidia</author>
	<datestamp>1264241880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <em>Rockstar Employees Badly Overworked, Say Wives</em> </p><p>
By wives' definition:  overworked  means   <b>not spending a lot of <em>quality time</em> with me</b>.
Regardless of how strenuous and stressful the work is...  there's more of a self-interest there.
</p><p>
What about married female workers at Rockstar?  Do their  husbands say they are overworked?
</p><p>
Why are we inquiring of spouses rather than the employee?
</p><p>
Some spouses'  definition of "overworked"  means  working  8 hours a day,  5 days a week,  and not chatting (personal calls)  on their business line  3+ hours a day.
</p><p>
12 hours a day,  6 days a week is  <b>not that bad</b>,  that's  72 hours a week.
As long as the employee agreed to it, and the pay is appropriate, that should be fine.   There are plenty of professions that involve that many hours a week,  e.g.  The average  Firefighter works &gt;60 hours per week as well.
</p><p>
But again, most of that time is not spent conducting physically draining activity.
In the case of a developer, most time is spent thinking.
</p><p>
It's called  "needing the money",  and  sometimes the need for cash  trumps  having a lot of time for recreation, in certain life situations.
</p><p>
Realizing for most individuals,  it's going to be unacceptable over long periods of time,  but for a few years it should be alright.    Employees at startups have long been known for long work hours  in exchange for extra compensation or special fringe benefits.
</p><p>
In fact... in the long run, working <b>8 hours a day</b> is going to be unacceptable to most people.
Every hear of this concept called "retirement" ?
</p><p>
Would you think it an adequate tradeoff to work  72  hours a week instead of 40,  and   retire within  10 - 15 years    instead  of  30 years?
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Rockstar Employees Badly Overworked , Say Wives By wives ' definition : overworked means not spending a lot of quality time with me .
Regardless of how strenuous and stressful the work is... there 's more of a self-interest there .
What about married female workers at Rockstar ?
Do their husbands say they are overworked ?
Why are we inquiring of spouses rather than the employee ?
Some spouses ' definition of " overworked " means working 8 hours a day , 5 days a week , and not chatting ( personal calls ) on their business line 3 + hours a day .
12 hours a day , 6 days a week is not that bad , that 's 72 hours a week .
As long as the employee agreed to it , and the pay is appropriate , that should be fine .
There are plenty of professions that involve that many hours a week , e.g .
The average Firefighter works &gt; 60 hours per week as well .
But again , most of that time is not spent conducting physically draining activity .
In the case of a developer , most time is spent thinking .
It 's called " needing the money " , and sometimes the need for cash trumps having a lot of time for recreation , in certain life situations .
Realizing for most individuals , it 's going to be unacceptable over long periods of time , but for a few years it should be alright .
Employees at startups have long been known for long work hours in exchange for extra compensation or special fringe benefits .
In fact... in the long run , working 8 hours a day is going to be unacceptable to most people .
Every hear of this concept called " retirement " ?
Would you think it an adequate tradeoff to work 72 hours a week instead of 40 , and retire within 10 - 15 years instead of 30 years ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Rockstar Employees Badly Overworked, Say Wives 
By wives' definition:  overworked  means   not spending a lot of quality time with me.
Regardless of how strenuous and stressful the work is...  there's more of a self-interest there.
What about married female workers at Rockstar?
Do their  husbands say they are overworked?
Why are we inquiring of spouses rather than the employee?
Some spouses'  definition of "overworked"  means  working  8 hours a day,  5 days a week,  and not chatting (personal calls)  on their business line  3+ hours a day.
12 hours a day,  6 days a week is  not that bad,  that's  72 hours a week.
As long as the employee agreed to it, and the pay is appropriate, that should be fine.
There are plenty of professions that involve that many hours a week,  e.g.
The average  Firefighter works &gt;60 hours per week as well.
But again, most of that time is not spent conducting physically draining activity.
In the case of a developer, most time is spent thinking.
It's called  "needing the money",  and  sometimes the need for cash  trumps  having a lot of time for recreation, in certain life situations.
Realizing for most individuals,  it's going to be unacceptable over long periods of time,  but for a few years it should be alright.
Employees at startups have long been known for long work hours  in exchange for extra compensation or special fringe benefits.
In fact... in the long run, working 8 hours a day is going to be unacceptable to most people.
Every hear of this concept called "retirement" ?
Would you think it an adequate tradeoff to work  72  hours a week instead of 40,  and   retire within  10 - 15 years    instead  of  30 years?
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30875540</id>
	<title>Books on Game Development</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264267260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>After reading stories like this one there is no way I would ever want to work in game development. But I am interested in some of the programming techniques that are used in game development. Are there any good books that explain the algorithms etc that are used in games? I would be happy if I could learn to write simple games that resemble some of the classic video games.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>After reading stories like this one there is no way I would ever want to work in game development .
But I am interested in some of the programming techniques that are used in game development .
Are there any good books that explain the algorithms etc that are used in games ?
I would be happy if I could learn to write simple games that resemble some of the classic video games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After reading stories like this one there is no way I would ever want to work in game development.
But I am interested in some of the programming techniques that are used in game development.
Are there any good books that explain the algorithms etc that are used in games?
I would be happy if I could learn to write simple games that resemble some of the classic video games.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871186</id>
	<title>Organize stupid</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264275420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When people are overworked to the point of collapsing, when you put in 80 hour weeks and still can't feed yourself properly.  When your boss does his best to make you feel small, you organize.</p><p>The conditions these jerk offs are working under are 1 million times better than anything industrial works get.  They are being greedy little shits themselves.  If they weren't so greedy, they would all just walk out.  They would organize.  They however, won't do that.  They want that shiny car, they want that big house in the burbs, the big fucking tv, the 2.5 kids.  They expect it all, and nobody has the heart to tell them, that just isn't how it is.</p><p>Simple solution you dolts.  Don't like the work ethic of your employer, find a new one!  They are treating you that way because you LET them treat you that way!  If they ask you to work for free, tell them fuck no.  You certainly wouldn't see a machinist, a welder, or any skilled tradesmen work a single minute for free.  Our services are valuable, we know that, and if you won't pay for it, we'll go someplace that will.  You all have the same option, and it's only your own greed that keeps you working like a dog.  I do not feel sorry for these wives or their husbands, neither should you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When people are overworked to the point of collapsing , when you put in 80 hour weeks and still ca n't feed yourself properly .
When your boss does his best to make you feel small , you organize.The conditions these jerk offs are working under are 1 million times better than anything industrial works get .
They are being greedy little shits themselves .
If they were n't so greedy , they would all just walk out .
They would organize .
They however , wo n't do that .
They want that shiny car , they want that big house in the burbs , the big fucking tv , the 2.5 kids .
They expect it all , and nobody has the heart to tell them , that just is n't how it is.Simple solution you dolts .
Do n't like the work ethic of your employer , find a new one !
They are treating you that way because you LET them treat you that way !
If they ask you to work for free , tell them fuck no .
You certainly would n't see a machinist , a welder , or any skilled tradesmen work a single minute for free .
Our services are valuable , we know that , and if you wo n't pay for it , we 'll go someplace that will .
You all have the same option , and it 's only your own greed that keeps you working like a dog .
I do not feel sorry for these wives or their husbands , neither should you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When people are overworked to the point of collapsing, when you put in 80 hour weeks and still can't feed yourself properly.
When your boss does his best to make you feel small, you organize.The conditions these jerk offs are working under are 1 million times better than anything industrial works get.
They are being greedy little shits themselves.
If they weren't so greedy, they would all just walk out.
They would organize.
They however, won't do that.
They want that shiny car, they want that big house in the burbs, the big fucking tv, the 2.5 kids.
They expect it all, and nobody has the heart to tell them, that just isn't how it is.Simple solution you dolts.
Don't like the work ethic of your employer, find a new one!
They are treating you that way because you LET them treat you that way!
If they ask you to work for free, tell them fuck no.
You certainly wouldn't see a machinist, a welder, or any skilled tradesmen work a single minute for free.
Our services are valuable, we know that, and if you won't pay for it, we'll go someplace that will.
You all have the same option, and it's only your own greed that keeps you working like a dog.
I do not feel sorry for these wives or their husbands, neither should you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873668</id>
	<title>Re:programmers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264249860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or make mediocre regurgitated shitty sports games like EA. It takes a lot of work to make original games these days. EA does not invent original titles, it purchases studios that make these titles hoping to reap the rewards. It also publishes, but that doesn't make it original or difficult work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or make mediocre regurgitated shitty sports games like EA .
It takes a lot of work to make original games these days .
EA does not invent original titles , it purchases studios that make these titles hoping to reap the rewards .
It also publishes , but that does n't make it original or difficult work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or make mediocre regurgitated shitty sports games like EA.
It takes a lot of work to make original games these days.
EA does not invent original titles, it purchases studios that make these titles hoping to reap the rewards.
It also publishes, but that doesn't make it original or difficult work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871054</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30875328</id>
	<title>Sounds like...</title>
	<author>Nabeel\_co</author>
	<datestamp>1264264980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sounds like a ploy by Fernando to get some more "workers" for <a href="http://gta.wikia.com/Fernando's\_New\_Beginnings" title="wikia.com" rel="nofollow">Fernando's New Beginnings</a> [wikia.com].</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds like a ploy by Fernando to get some more " workers " for Fernando 's New Beginnings [ wikia.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds like a ploy by Fernando to get some more "workers" for Fernando's New Beginnings [wikia.com].</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871434</id>
	<title>Re:programmers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264277100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Step 2: Dont' work more than 40 hours. Just leave after that.</p></div></blockquote><p>I did that while I worked for Sony, early in the noughts.  They fired me after less than a year and a half.  I was unemployed for 20 months, and very nearly lost my house and car.  My salary has never yet recovered to average levels for my age and experience.
</p><p>
That's why they work their 12 hour days.  There's a regular Slashdot poster with a sig that says "Debt is slavery."  It's no joke.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Step 2 : Dont ' work more than 40 hours .
Just leave after that.I did that while I worked for Sony , early in the noughts .
They fired me after less than a year and a half .
I was unemployed for 20 months , and very nearly lost my house and car .
My salary has never yet recovered to average levels for my age and experience .
That 's why they work their 12 hour days .
There 's a regular Slashdot poster with a sig that says " Debt is slavery .
" It 's no joke .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Step 2: Dont' work more than 40 hours.
Just leave after that.I did that while I worked for Sony, early in the noughts.
They fired me after less than a year and a half.
I was unemployed for 20 months, and very nearly lost my house and car.
My salary has never yet recovered to average levels for my age and experience.
That's why they work their 12 hour days.
There's a regular Slashdot poster with a sig that says "Debt is slavery.
"  It's no joke.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871054</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871526</id>
	<title>Wow damn</title>
	<author>aztektum</author>
	<datestamp>1264277640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is just hitting<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.? It's been all over the nets for 2-3 weeks. Perhaps<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. could stand to hire some of R*'s management<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is just hitting /. ?
It 's been all over the nets for 2-3 weeks .
Perhaps / .
could stand to hire some of R * 's management : P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is just hitting /.?
It's been all over the nets for 2-3 weeks.
Perhaps /.
could stand to hire some of R*'s management :P</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871204</id>
	<title>General Industry Issue</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264275540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Honestly, this is a problem across most of the major industry companies right now.</p><p>Having worked on multiple projects, it's pretty much an epidemic of the industry to have poor planning, unrealistic schedules, poor staffing ramp-up (often they try to do too much with too little), and try to squeeze as much out of the development team as humanly possible.</p><p>I find it a bit sad that a AAA game can spend the ridiculous amounts on marketing and 3rd party licensing, yet refuses to pay overtime or reward the talent which actually creates the game.</p><p>Honestly, my feeling is that the industry really needs to deal with this or else they are going to have significant issues developing talent in the industry as a whole. At the moment, many people are leaving the industry after a fairly 'short' period of time, suffering from burnout and the ability to get positions in other industries which pay 2-3 times as well for less hours.</p><p>It is a bit sad how unwilling most companies are to compensate people for their time. Often--as many posts have referenced--they are riding the time of younger additions to the industry who are early 20-somethings willing to work their asses off to ship a game. However, the industry is quickly losing their late-20s/early-30s employees with families and a desire to not spend 60+ hours at work every week for frankly poor pay for a job which requires such specific skills.</p><p>The industry is really getting a large skill-sap, and myself and many of my friends have definitely encountered that in our recent projects. While the companies themselves may not see the issue replacing 10 years of experience with a 21 year-old intern--the quality of the work and the product has really been suffering.</p><p>At the end of the day, you can only quit--which is a route many people have been taking of late. Myself, I am expecting a child soon and most likely will be making an exit unless I end up somewhere with employee-minded proceedures I will likely simply go back to the tech industry and get paid over twice as much for the trouble of dropping 20 hours a week off my schedule.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Honestly , this is a problem across most of the major industry companies right now.Having worked on multiple projects , it 's pretty much an epidemic of the industry to have poor planning , unrealistic schedules , poor staffing ramp-up ( often they try to do too much with too little ) , and try to squeeze as much out of the development team as humanly possible.I find it a bit sad that a AAA game can spend the ridiculous amounts on marketing and 3rd party licensing , yet refuses to pay overtime or reward the talent which actually creates the game.Honestly , my feeling is that the industry really needs to deal with this or else they are going to have significant issues developing talent in the industry as a whole .
At the moment , many people are leaving the industry after a fairly 'short ' period of time , suffering from burnout and the ability to get positions in other industries which pay 2-3 times as well for less hours.It is a bit sad how unwilling most companies are to compensate people for their time .
Often--as many posts have referenced--they are riding the time of younger additions to the industry who are early 20-somethings willing to work their asses off to ship a game .
However , the industry is quickly losing their late-20s/early-30s employees with families and a desire to not spend 60 + hours at work every week for frankly poor pay for a job which requires such specific skills.The industry is really getting a large skill-sap , and myself and many of my friends have definitely encountered that in our recent projects .
While the companies themselves may not see the issue replacing 10 years of experience with a 21 year-old intern--the quality of the work and the product has really been suffering.At the end of the day , you can only quit--which is a route many people have been taking of late .
Myself , I am expecting a child soon and most likely will be making an exit unless I end up somewhere with employee-minded proceedures I will likely simply go back to the tech industry and get paid over twice as much for the trouble of dropping 20 hours a week off my schedule .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Honestly, this is a problem across most of the major industry companies right now.Having worked on multiple projects, it's pretty much an epidemic of the industry to have poor planning, unrealistic schedules, poor staffing ramp-up (often they try to do too much with too little), and try to squeeze as much out of the development team as humanly possible.I find it a bit sad that a AAA game can spend the ridiculous amounts on marketing and 3rd party licensing, yet refuses to pay overtime or reward the talent which actually creates the game.Honestly, my feeling is that the industry really needs to deal with this or else they are going to have significant issues developing talent in the industry as a whole.
At the moment, many people are leaving the industry after a fairly 'short' period of time, suffering from burnout and the ability to get positions in other industries which pay 2-3 times as well for less hours.It is a bit sad how unwilling most companies are to compensate people for their time.
Often--as many posts have referenced--they are riding the time of younger additions to the industry who are early 20-somethings willing to work their asses off to ship a game.
However, the industry is quickly losing their late-20s/early-30s employees with families and a desire to not spend 60+ hours at work every week for frankly poor pay for a job which requires such specific skills.The industry is really getting a large skill-sap, and myself and many of my friends have definitely encountered that in our recent projects.
While the companies themselves may not see the issue replacing 10 years of experience with a 21 year-old intern--the quality of the work and the product has really been suffering.At the end of the day, you can only quit--which is a route many people have been taking of late.
Myself, I am expecting a child soon and most likely will be making an exit unless I end up somewhere with employee-minded proceedures I will likely simply go back to the tech industry and get paid over twice as much for the trouble of dropping 20 hours a week off my schedule.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871776</id>
	<title>R*  ?????</title>
	<author>gatkinso</author>
	<datestamp>1264279080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Christ that is gay.</p><p>Oh, back to the topic at hand.  Rockstar employees: if you don't like there it find a new job.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Christ that is gay.Oh , back to the topic at hand .
Rockstar employees : if you do n't like there it find a new job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Christ that is gay.Oh, back to the topic at hand.
Rockstar employees: if you don't like there it find a new job.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871274</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264276020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yet another software company most likely lacking proper project management. The lunatics are running the asylum...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yet another software company most likely lacking proper project management .
The lunatics are running the asylum.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yet another software company most likely lacking proper project management.
The lunatics are running the asylum...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30875186</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264263540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you quit and become a bartender, you can drink all they want, and are home at 2 every morning.</p><p>The cold hard truth.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you quit and become a bartender , you can drink all they want , and are home at 2 every morning.The cold hard truth .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you quit and become a bartender, you can drink all they want, and are home at 2 every morning.The cold hard truth.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871640</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871936</id>
	<title>Re:Welcome to Capitalism</title>
	<author>MindlessAutomata</author>
	<datestamp>1264280040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Try unionization, or maybe educate employees.  Government regulation would hurt people like me with no family or social life that wouldn't mind long crunch periods.  There is no one-size-fits-all style to life and freedom, despite what the populists tell you, is not designing all life to the lowest-common-denominator.</p><p>'course many unions are just as corrupt and faceless as any government, and reward seniority over anything else.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Try unionization , or maybe educate employees .
Government regulation would hurt people like me with no family or social life that would n't mind long crunch periods .
There is no one-size-fits-all style to life and freedom , despite what the populists tell you , is not designing all life to the lowest-common-denominator .
'course many unions are just as corrupt and faceless as any government , and reward seniority over anything else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try unionization, or maybe educate employees.
Government regulation would hurt people like me with no family or social life that wouldn't mind long crunch periods.
There is no one-size-fits-all style to life and freedom, despite what the populists tell you, is not designing all life to the lowest-common-denominator.
'course many unions are just as corrupt and faceless as any government, and reward seniority over anything else.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30876040</id>
	<title>Imagine the same thing, but in the other direction</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1264271700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Imagine if employees would act that way:<br>&ldquo;Hey boss, you know, the economy is pretty bad right now and, $someOtherExcuseOrLie, bla bla bla... So this month I expect you to pay me 150\% of my normal pay, for the same work. Or else I will have to quit, because you don&rsquo;t have the proper engagement in the company and our contract. Thank you for understanding.&rdquo;</p><p>That&rsquo;s just as right/wrong.<br>Now ask yourself, why it&rsquo;s going this way, and not the other way around.<br>I mean the company can just as badly work without employees, and you can just as well find another job.</p><p>The only difference: It&rsquo;s a one-to-many relationship with companies vs people. People are fragmented and fragmentable.<br>And bosses naturally assume a position of the world being under their control. Employees naturally assume a position of the supplicant.<br>Despite this not being the case. Both give and take.</p><p>This results in something, that is practically the same as (unfairly) exploiting a monopoly. Which for good reasons is illegal. But unfortunately only, if it&rsquo;s about any other market than the job market.</p><p>The solution is quite simple: Just as a boss can have multiple employees, a employee must be able to have multiple bosses.<br>The fact that you can only have one boss at a time, is effectively killing most competition, and raising the risk for employees.</p><p>As you will know, this is partially the case, if you&rsquo;re self-employed. Just that in that case, you don&rsquo;t get all the benefits of working in a company. Like perhaps medical care, pension, and other departments taking care of billing etc.<br>But who says that it&rsquo;s not just as easily possible, for a company to offer these services to self-employed people with contracts?<br>A &ldquo;boss&rdquo; can just as well have 20 hours a week subscriptions/leases with a proper contract. That contract can just as well include additional services like paying something into pension, medical care, and those external companies that handle billing etc. Either hidden in the normal costs, or explicitly stated.</p><p>I completely stopped trying to get into companies,and this is the only kind of contract I will ever have with a company again.<br>The only hard part, is to find someone reliable, who can do the billing for you. I also recommend an experienced sales guy, who can be the interface between you any your clients, and find new clients for you, in exchange for a payment.<br>If you want to free yourself, I can only recommend doing something similar.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Imagine if employees would act that way :    Hey boss , you know , the economy is pretty bad right now and , $ someOtherExcuseOrLie , bla bla bla... So this month I expect you to pay me 150 \ % of my normal pay , for the same work .
Or else I will have to quit , because you don    t have the proper engagement in the company and our contract .
Thank you for understanding.    That    s just as right/wrong.Now ask yourself , why it    s going this way , and not the other way around.I mean the company can just as badly work without employees , and you can just as well find another job.The only difference : It    s a one-to-many relationship with companies vs people .
People are fragmented and fragmentable.And bosses naturally assume a position of the world being under their control .
Employees naturally assume a position of the supplicant.Despite this not being the case .
Both give and take.This results in something , that is practically the same as ( unfairly ) exploiting a monopoly .
Which for good reasons is illegal .
But unfortunately only , if it    s about any other market than the job market.The solution is quite simple : Just as a boss can have multiple employees , a employee must be able to have multiple bosses.The fact that you can only have one boss at a time , is effectively killing most competition , and raising the risk for employees.As you will know , this is partially the case , if you    re self-employed .
Just that in that case , you don    t get all the benefits of working in a company .
Like perhaps medical care , pension , and other departments taking care of billing etc.But who says that it    s not just as easily possible , for a company to offer these services to self-employed people with contracts ? A    boss    can just as well have 20 hours a week subscriptions/leases with a proper contract .
That contract can just as well include additional services like paying something into pension , medical care , and those external companies that handle billing etc .
Either hidden in the normal costs , or explicitly stated.I completely stopped trying to get into companies,and this is the only kind of contract I will ever have with a company again.The only hard part , is to find someone reliable , who can do the billing for you .
I also recommend an experienced sales guy , who can be the interface between you any your clients , and find new clients for you , in exchange for a payment.If you want to free yourself , I can only recommend doing something similar .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Imagine if employees would act that way:“Hey boss, you know, the economy is pretty bad right now and, $someOtherExcuseOrLie, bla bla bla... So this month I expect you to pay me 150\% of my normal pay, for the same work.
Or else I will have to quit, because you don’t have the proper engagement in the company and our contract.
Thank you for understanding.”That’s just as right/wrong.Now ask yourself, why it’s going this way, and not the other way around.I mean the company can just as badly work without employees, and you can just as well find another job.The only difference: It’s a one-to-many relationship with companies vs people.
People are fragmented and fragmentable.And bosses naturally assume a position of the world being under their control.
Employees naturally assume a position of the supplicant.Despite this not being the case.
Both give and take.This results in something, that is practically the same as (unfairly) exploiting a monopoly.
Which for good reasons is illegal.
But unfortunately only, if it’s about any other market than the job market.The solution is quite simple: Just as a boss can have multiple employees, a employee must be able to have multiple bosses.The fact that you can only have one boss at a time, is effectively killing most competition, and raising the risk for employees.As you will know, this is partially the case, if you’re self-employed.
Just that in that case, you don’t get all the benefits of working in a company.
Like perhaps medical care, pension, and other departments taking care of billing etc.But who says that it’s not just as easily possible, for a company to offer these services to self-employed people with contracts?A “boss” can just as well have 20 hours a week subscriptions/leases with a proper contract.
That contract can just as well include additional services like paying something into pension, medical care, and those external companies that handle billing etc.
Either hidden in the normal costs, or explicitly stated.I completely stopped trying to get into companies,and this is the only kind of contract I will ever have with a company again.The only hard part, is to find someone reliable, who can do the billing for you.
I also recommend an experienced sales guy, who can be the interface between you any your clients, and find new clients for you, in exchange for a payment.If you want to free yourself, I can only recommend doing something similar.
:)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30874264</id>
	<title>Re:12 hour work days?</title>
	<author>stimpleton</author>
	<datestamp>1264255260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Probably the motivation that made them write the letter. Females discuss everything.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Probably the motivation that made them write the letter .
Females discuss everything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Probably the motivation that made them write the letter.
Females discuss everything.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871124</id>
	<title>Unionize.</title>
	<author>REALMAN</author>
	<datestamp>1264275120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I smell a Video Game Industry Union coming. Since The Supreme Court decided that Corporations are persons with rights over and above any actual people it's no surprise that this kind of treatment is becoming the norm.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I smell a Video Game Industry Union coming .
Since The Supreme Court decided that Corporations are persons with rights over and above any actual people it 's no surprise that this kind of treatment is becoming the norm .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I smell a Video Game Industry Union coming.
Since The Supreme Court decided that Corporations are persons with rights over and above any actual people it's no surprise that this kind of treatment is becoming the norm.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871284</id>
	<title>Exactly.  Where is the Digital Developers Guild?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264276140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was about to say the same thing.  If not the Animation Guild (which may not have relevance for programmers, for example), perhaps another union should be set up for the gaming industry.  The movie and television industries have unions for various facets of production:</p><p>DGA - directors<br>WGA - writers<br>IATSE- production people<br>Teamsters-- transportation<br>AFTRA -- news, radio, sports and weather; variety shows, etc..<br>SAG -- screen actors<br>MPEG -- (the other one)  Motion Picture Editor's Guild<br>etc.</p><p>After that EA letter floated around a few years back, I thought surely a union was going to result, but apparently not.  People always say "well everyone wants to work for the gaming industry, they'll just replace you with someone else"... really?  And people don't want to be movie directors and actors</p><p>The gaming industry is not in its infancy any more.  It makes more $ than the movie industry.  Modern Warfare 2 made what, a billion dollars?  About what Avatar is making?</p><p>I know there's been an anti-union trend over the last few decades, but there's a Democrat in the white house now.  The fact that this industry isn't unionized yet is confusing to me.  What's going on?  Are developers just a bunch of nerdy pushovers?  Do they believe threats about moving jobs overseas?  Are they by nature independent and/or competitive and the idea of working together just not in their nature?  You could say the same about Hollywood...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was about to say the same thing .
If not the Animation Guild ( which may not have relevance for programmers , for example ) , perhaps another union should be set up for the gaming industry .
The movie and television industries have unions for various facets of production : DGA - directorsWGA - writersIATSE- production peopleTeamsters-- transportationAFTRA -- news , radio , sports and weather ; variety shows , etc..SAG -- screen actorsMPEG -- ( the other one ) Motion Picture Editor 's Guildetc.After that EA letter floated around a few years back , I thought surely a union was going to result , but apparently not .
People always say " well everyone wants to work for the gaming industry , they 'll just replace you with someone else " ... really ? And people do n't want to be movie directors and actorsThe gaming industry is not in its infancy any more .
It makes more $ than the movie industry .
Modern Warfare 2 made what , a billion dollars ?
About what Avatar is making ? I know there 's been an anti-union trend over the last few decades , but there 's a Democrat in the white house now .
The fact that this industry is n't unionized yet is confusing to me .
What 's going on ?
Are developers just a bunch of nerdy pushovers ?
Do they believe threats about moving jobs overseas ?
Are they by nature independent and/or competitive and the idea of working together just not in their nature ?
You could say the same about Hollywood.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was about to say the same thing.
If not the Animation Guild (which may not have relevance for programmers, for example), perhaps another union should be set up for the gaming industry.
The movie and television industries have unions for various facets of production:DGA - directorsWGA - writersIATSE- production peopleTeamsters-- transportationAFTRA -- news, radio, sports and weather; variety shows, etc..SAG -- screen actorsMPEG -- (the other one)  Motion Picture Editor's Guildetc.After that EA letter floated around a few years back, I thought surely a union was going to result, but apparently not.
People always say "well everyone wants to work for the gaming industry, they'll just replace you with someone else"... really?  And people don't want to be movie directors and actorsThe gaming industry is not in its infancy any more.
It makes more $ than the movie industry.
Modern Warfare 2 made what, a billion dollars?
About what Avatar is making?I know there's been an anti-union trend over the last few decades, but there's a Democrat in the white house now.
The fact that this industry isn't unionized yet is confusing to me.
What's going on?
Are developers just a bunch of nerdy pushovers?
Do they believe threats about moving jobs overseas?
Are they by nature independent and/or competitive and the idea of working together just not in their nature?
You could say the same about Hollywood...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871130</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871110</id>
	<title>Not just programmers</title>
	<author>Gushi</author>
	<datestamp>1264275000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is the same situation as in the American Biotech industry. Most companies are small with high burn rates and the whole industry is built around squeezing every bit of time and energy out of employees and then discarding them. Its easy to just say, "Get another job" but its not always that easy. Some of us have friends and family that we actually like to see and living the gypsy lifestyle moving from one job location to another doesn't make that easy on friends, family or children. Furthermore, some of us got where we are by being specialized, and once discarded its not easy or quick to find the next...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is the same situation as in the American Biotech industry .
Most companies are small with high burn rates and the whole industry is built around squeezing every bit of time and energy out of employees and then discarding them .
Its easy to just say , " Get another job " but its not always that easy .
Some of us have friends and family that we actually like to see and living the gypsy lifestyle moving from one job location to another does n't make that easy on friends , family or children .
Furthermore , some of us got where we are by being specialized , and once discarded its not easy or quick to find the next.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is the same situation as in the American Biotech industry.
Most companies are small with high burn rates and the whole industry is built around squeezing every bit of time and energy out of employees and then discarding them.
Its easy to just say, "Get another job" but its not always that easy.
Some of us have friends and family that we actually like to see and living the gypsy lifestyle moving from one job location to another doesn't make that easy on friends, family or children.
Furthermore, some of us got where we are by being specialized, and once discarded its not easy or quick to find the next...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30874312</id>
	<title>Re:12 hour work days?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264255680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I only need a good 5 minutes with the wife.</p></div><p>You're on Slashdot, and claim to have a wife? Heck, even a girlfriend woulda been a stretch of the imagination...

</p><p>Oh wait, you did say "with <b>the</b> wife" and not "with <b>my</b> wife" - so the question then remains... who's wife?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I only need a good 5 minutes with the wife.You 're on Slashdot , and claim to have a wife ?
Heck , even a girlfriend woulda been a stretch of the imagination.. . Oh wait , you did say " with the wife " and not " with my wife " - so the question then remains... who 's wife ?
; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I only need a good 5 minutes with the wife.You're on Slashdot, and claim to have a wife?
Heck, even a girlfriend woulda been a stretch of the imagination...

Oh wait, you did say "with the wife" and not "with my wife" - so the question then remains... who's wife?
;-)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872658</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>eulernet</author>
	<datestamp>1264242360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>He could be describing Electronic Arts. Look, the game industry has been run this way for the better part of thirty years. I worked as a coder for a couple of game companies back in the mid-eighties<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... and I left for the reasons described in the summary.</p></div><p>I totally agree: I worked for several companies during 20 years in France, and this behavior can be found in 50\% of the companies.<br>But <b>it's the fault of the employees</b>, because they don't know how to set limits.</p><p>Since most of the developers are young or inexperienced, they don't have a life outside of their work.<br>Once I realized this trick, I told them that I will start at a given hour, and will return home at another given hour, and I was probably the only one in my company to do that, and I became their most efficient coder.</p><p>I also remember a job interview, where the project leader told me that doing an all-nighter occasionally was very beneficial for the group (WTF !).</p><p><div class="quote"><p>As much as I enjoyed that line of work, management practices were abusive even then.</p></div><p>It's true, but it's because:<br>
&nbsp; - the managers don't know how to lead a project (90\% of the cases)<br>
&nbsp; - the managers are not coders themselves (95\% of the cases)<br>
&nbsp; - the managers never finished a game before (99\% of the cases)<br>
&nbsp; - <b>the managers never encountered another way of work</b> (100\% of the cases)</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The problem is managers that use simple metrics like lines of code written per day to determine a developer's value.</p></div><p>No, this is not true.<br>What is valued is the <b>number of hours you do every day</b>. It doesn't matter if you do something or not !!! I worked 8 hours a day, but was less considered than some other guys who were working 2 hours, but been <b>present</b> 10 hours.<br>Also, socializing is an important part if you are ambitious and want to be paid more, so it's necessary to spend your time chatting with the management, otherwise you'll be ignored (of course, I never did that and my salary stagnated).</p><p>In general, <b>any project is already late as soon as it begins</b>.<br>Working 12 hours every day won't help the game finish in time (and in general, it does the opposite by draining the energy out of the team).</p><p><b>The problem is that the games start with too much elements</b>, instead of building progressively.<br>So, you have to code everything from  the beginning, and that's very bad.<br>And worse, the final goal changes constantly.<br>Also, when a game is really on time (by some miracle), managers tend to add even more features, because they suppose that the programmers will easily code them.</p><p>The real solution is to stop building large games at the very beginning, and simply add one feature after another.<br>When the time runs out, you'll have at least something to deliver, not incomplete parts everywhere.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>upper management is hiring sadists to run their development teams</p></div><p>No, it's just that <b>everybody only knows this bad way of working</b>, and nobody intends to change that: they don't have the time to try other ways !!!</p><p>This work process is so bad that 30\% of the coders leave the company at the end of an exhausting project.<br>That's why there is so much turnover in game companies.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>He could be describing Electronic Arts .
Look , the game industry has been run this way for the better part of thirty years .
I worked as a coder for a couple of game companies back in the mid-eighties ... and I left for the reasons described in the summary.I totally agree : I worked for several companies during 20 years in France , and this behavior can be found in 50 \ % of the companies.But it 's the fault of the employees , because they do n't know how to set limits.Since most of the developers are young or inexperienced , they do n't have a life outside of their work.Once I realized this trick , I told them that I will start at a given hour , and will return home at another given hour , and I was probably the only one in my company to do that , and I became their most efficient coder.I also remember a job interview , where the project leader told me that doing an all-nighter occasionally was very beneficial for the group ( WTF !
) .As much as I enjoyed that line of work , management practices were abusive even then.It 's true , but it 's because :   - the managers do n't know how to lead a project ( 90 \ % of the cases )   - the managers are not coders themselves ( 95 \ % of the cases )   - the managers never finished a game before ( 99 \ % of the cases )   - the managers never encountered another way of work ( 100 \ % of the cases ) The problem is managers that use simple metrics like lines of code written per day to determine a developer 's value.No , this is not true.What is valued is the number of hours you do every day .
It does n't matter if you do something or not ! ! !
I worked 8 hours a day , but was less considered than some other guys who were working 2 hours , but been present 10 hours.Also , socializing is an important part if you are ambitious and want to be paid more , so it 's necessary to spend your time chatting with the management , otherwise you 'll be ignored ( of course , I never did that and my salary stagnated ) .In general , any project is already late as soon as it begins.Working 12 hours every day wo n't help the game finish in time ( and in general , it does the opposite by draining the energy out of the team ) .The problem is that the games start with too much elements , instead of building progressively.So , you have to code everything from the beginning , and that 's very bad.And worse , the final goal changes constantly.Also , when a game is really on time ( by some miracle ) , managers tend to add even more features , because they suppose that the programmers will easily code them.The real solution is to stop building large games at the very beginning , and simply add one feature after another.When the time runs out , you 'll have at least something to deliver , not incomplete parts everywhere.upper management is hiring sadists to run their development teamsNo , it 's just that everybody only knows this bad way of working , and nobody intends to change that : they do n't have the time to try other ways ! !
! This work process is so bad that 30 \ % of the coders leave the company at the end of an exhausting project.That 's why there is so much turnover in game companies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He could be describing Electronic Arts.
Look, the game industry has been run this way for the better part of thirty years.
I worked as a coder for a couple of game companies back in the mid-eighties ... and I left for the reasons described in the summary.I totally agree: I worked for several companies during 20 years in France, and this behavior can be found in 50\% of the companies.But it's the fault of the employees, because they don't know how to set limits.Since most of the developers are young or inexperienced, they don't have a life outside of their work.Once I realized this trick, I told them that I will start at a given hour, and will return home at another given hour, and I was probably the only one in my company to do that, and I became their most efficient coder.I also remember a job interview, where the project leader told me that doing an all-nighter occasionally was very beneficial for the group (WTF !
).As much as I enjoyed that line of work, management practices were abusive even then.It's true, but it's because:
  - the managers don't know how to lead a project (90\% of the cases)
  - the managers are not coders themselves (95\% of the cases)
  - the managers never finished a game before (99\% of the cases)
  - the managers never encountered another way of work (100\% of the cases)The problem is managers that use simple metrics like lines of code written per day to determine a developer's value.No, this is not true.What is valued is the number of hours you do every day.
It doesn't matter if you do something or not !!!
I worked 8 hours a day, but was less considered than some other guys who were working 2 hours, but been present 10 hours.Also, socializing is an important part if you are ambitious and want to be paid more, so it's necessary to spend your time chatting with the management, otherwise you'll be ignored (of course, I never did that and my salary stagnated).In general, any project is already late as soon as it begins.Working 12 hours every day won't help the game finish in time (and in general, it does the opposite by draining the energy out of the team).The problem is that the games start with too much elements, instead of building progressively.So, you have to code everything from  the beginning, and that's very bad.And worse, the final goal changes constantly.Also, when a game is really on time (by some miracle), managers tend to add even more features, because they suppose that the programmers will easily code them.The real solution is to stop building large games at the very beginning, and simply add one feature after another.When the time runs out, you'll have at least something to deliver, not incomplete parts everywhere.upper management is hiring sadists to run their development teamsNo, it's just that everybody only knows this bad way of working, and nobody intends to change that: they don't have the time to try other ways !!
!This work process is so bad that 30\% of the coders leave the company at the end of an exhausting project.That's why there is so much turnover in game companies.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30870998</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30883782</id>
	<title>Re:Easy problem to solve</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264337700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Only one of those over stressed people would need to report that to the DOJ.</p></div> </blockquote><p>
Not so fast!
</p><p>
I did my 80 hour weeks for nearly a year on a project being overseen by the DOJ.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Only one of those over stressed people would need to report that to the DOJ .
Not so fast !
I did my 80 hour weeks for nearly a year on a project being overseen by the DOJ .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Only one of those over stressed people would need to report that to the DOJ.
Not so fast!
I did my 80 hour weeks for nearly a year on a project being overseen by the DOJ.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871120</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871612</id>
	<title>In VFX we used to say</title>
	<author>fscrubjay</author>
	<datestamp>1264278120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Never enough time to do it right, always enough time to do it again</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Never enough time to do it right , always enough time to do it again</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Never enough time to do it right, always enough time to do it again</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873288</id>
	<title>Re:12 hour work days?</title>
	<author>creimer</author>
	<datestamp>1264246980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's why I got out of the video game industry after six years. I traded in an 80 hour work week lead game tester position for a 40 hour work week help desk position where I make the same amount of money.  That allows me to enjoy the remaining 16 hours each day and the full 48 hours of the weekend.  What's the point of making money if you can't enjoy it?</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's why I got out of the video game industry after six years .
I traded in an 80 hour work week lead game tester position for a 40 hour work week help desk position where I make the same amount of money .
That allows me to enjoy the remaining 16 hours each day and the full 48 hours of the weekend .
What 's the point of making money if you ca n't enjoy it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's why I got out of the video game industry after six years.
I traded in an 80 hour work week lead game tester position for a 40 hour work week help desk position where I make the same amount of money.
That allows me to enjoy the remaining 16 hours each day and the full 48 hours of the weekend.
What's the point of making money if you can't enjoy it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30870978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873770</id>
	<title>Re:programmers</title>
	<author>Alcoholist</author>
	<datestamp>1264250580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This sort of relates.</p><p>A relation of mine works on a team that writes new financial apps in COBOL. Some big financial institution managing millions of pensions. One of their biggest problems: the team is getting old and finding new COBOL programmers isn&rsquo;t as easy as you would think.</p><p>Anyway, the young university grads at the firm think COBOL is old geezer work. They would scurry around a few floors down, writing front end stuff in Java and Visual Studio. Always agitated, always in a hurry, always behind yet they worked 70 hour weeks. The COBOL team managed to convince one of them to come work in their department. After six months, you would barely recognize the kid: he got a haircut, the bags under his eyes were gone, he had returned to a healthy weight, met a girl, purchased a respectable condo. Why? He now has the time to do it. 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, three weeks of vacation every year. These 'old geezer' programmers would pull this off by very carefully planing out what they were expected to do, not over-commit, submitting the plan to management and then getting it done.  Since COBOL programmers tend to work at a fairly predictable rate, it was easy for them to always be on time.</p><p>I've only programmed for financial companies but IMHO I think these young game hackers are getting caught up in the whole "OMFG I pulled off this monster hack and it only took 20 hours and six cans of Red Bull!" I've done that too -- back in college.  But if you start thinking like that professionally and promise as much to your boss, he's just going to ask for it all the time until you are all used up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This sort of relates.A relation of mine works on a team that writes new financial apps in COBOL .
Some big financial institution managing millions of pensions .
One of their biggest problems : the team is getting old and finding new COBOL programmers isn    t as easy as you would think.Anyway , the young university grads at the firm think COBOL is old geezer work .
They would scurry around a few floors down , writing front end stuff in Java and Visual Studio .
Always agitated , always in a hurry , always behind yet they worked 70 hour weeks .
The COBOL team managed to convince one of them to come work in their department .
After six months , you would barely recognize the kid : he got a haircut , the bags under his eyes were gone , he had returned to a healthy weight , met a girl , purchased a respectable condo .
Why ? He now has the time to do it .
8 hours a day , 5 days a week , three weeks of vacation every year .
These 'old geezer ' programmers would pull this off by very carefully planing out what they were expected to do , not over-commit , submitting the plan to management and then getting it done .
Since COBOL programmers tend to work at a fairly predictable rate , it was easy for them to always be on time.I 've only programmed for financial companies but IMHO I think these young game hackers are getting caught up in the whole " OMFG I pulled off this monster hack and it only took 20 hours and six cans of Red Bull !
" I 've done that too -- back in college .
But if you start thinking like that professionally and promise as much to your boss , he 's just going to ask for it all the time until you are all used up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This sort of relates.A relation of mine works on a team that writes new financial apps in COBOL.
Some big financial institution managing millions of pensions.
One of their biggest problems: the team is getting old and finding new COBOL programmers isn’t as easy as you would think.Anyway, the young university grads at the firm think COBOL is old geezer work.
They would scurry around a few floors down, writing front end stuff in Java and Visual Studio.
Always agitated, always in a hurry, always behind yet they worked 70 hour weeks.
The COBOL team managed to convince one of them to come work in their department.
After six months, you would barely recognize the kid: he got a haircut, the bags under his eyes were gone, he had returned to a healthy weight, met a girl, purchased a respectable condo.
Why? He now has the time to do it.
8 hours a day, 5 days a week, three weeks of vacation every year.
These 'old geezer' programmers would pull this off by very carefully planing out what they were expected to do, not over-commit, submitting the plan to management and then getting it done.
Since COBOL programmers tend to work at a fairly predictable rate, it was easy for them to always be on time.I've only programmed for financial companies but IMHO I think these young game hackers are getting caught up in the whole "OMFG I pulled off this monster hack and it only took 20 hours and six cans of Red Bull!
" I've done that too -- back in college.
But if you start thinking like that professionally and promise as much to your boss, he's just going to ask for it all the time until you are all used up.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871054</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873626</id>
	<title>Re:Organize stupid</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264249500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Game developers, greedy ?<br>Man, good trolling.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Game developers , greedy ? Man , good trolling .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Game developers, greedy ?Man, good trolling.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871186</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871632</id>
	<title>Old addage about complaining...</title>
	<author>HockeyPuck</author>
	<datestamp>1264278300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's an old expression, "Don't complain about not having shoes, when there are people who don't have feet."</p><p>I'm unemployed and would love a job. So would those included in this January 8, 2010 <a href="http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm" title="bls.gov">report</a> [bls.gov] by the US Dept of Labor.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Unemployment rates for the major worker groups--adult men (10.2 percent),<br>adult women (8.2 percent), teenagers (27.1 percent), whites (9.0 percent),<br>blacks (16.2 percent), and Hispanics (12.9 percent)--showed little change in<br>December. The unemployment rate for Asians was 8.4 percent, not seasonally<br>adjusted.</p><p>Among the unemployed, the number of long-term unemployed (those jobless for 27<br>weeks and over) continued to trend up, reaching 6.1 million. In December, 4 in<br>10 unemployed workers were jobless for 27 weeks or longer.</p></div><p>If you don't like the job for whatever reason, <b>quit.</b>  This isn't indentured servitude.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's an old expression , " Do n't complain about not having shoes , when there are people who do n't have feet .
" I 'm unemployed and would love a job .
So would those included in this January 8 , 2010 report [ bls.gov ] by the US Dept of Labor.Unemployment rates for the major worker groups--adult men ( 10.2 percent ) ,adult women ( 8.2 percent ) , teenagers ( 27.1 percent ) , whites ( 9.0 percent ) ,blacks ( 16.2 percent ) , and Hispanics ( 12.9 percent ) --showed little change inDecember .
The unemployment rate for Asians was 8.4 percent , not seasonallyadjusted.Among the unemployed , the number of long-term unemployed ( those jobless for 27weeks and over ) continued to trend up , reaching 6.1 million .
In December , 4 in10 unemployed workers were jobless for 27 weeks or longer.If you do n't like the job for whatever reason , quit .
This is n't indentured servitude .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's an old expression, "Don't complain about not having shoes, when there are people who don't have feet.
"I'm unemployed and would love a job.
So would those included in this January 8, 2010 report [bls.gov] by the US Dept of Labor.Unemployment rates for the major worker groups--adult men (10.2 percent),adult women (8.2 percent), teenagers (27.1 percent), whites (9.0 percent),blacks (16.2 percent), and Hispanics (12.9 percent)--showed little change inDecember.
The unemployment rate for Asians was 8.4 percent, not seasonallyadjusted.Among the unemployed, the number of long-term unemployed (those jobless for 27weeks and over) continued to trend up, reaching 6.1 million.
In December, 4 in10 unemployed workers were jobless for 27 weeks or longer.If you don't like the job for whatever reason, quit.
This isn't indentured servitude.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30890266</id>
	<title>Re:12 hour work days?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264435980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yup, pretty much the reason I went to research vs game development.</p><p>Right now I do game development as a hobby, it has been better that way for me.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yup , pretty much the reason I went to research vs game development.Right now I do game development as a hobby , it has been better that way for me .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yup, pretty much the reason I went to research vs game development.Right now I do game development as a hobby, it has been better that way for me.
:)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873288</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871690</id>
	<title>And this is unusual??</title>
	<author>Qwavel</author>
	<datestamp>1264278660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Aren't a lot of white collar jobs like this now?</p><p>- "Unending crunch periods"<br>- 12-hour work days and 6-day weeks</p><p>When I was a systems consultant that was pretty much the norm.  As a consultant I got off easy compared to the regular employees.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are n't a lot of white collar jobs like this now ? - " Unending crunch periods " - 12-hour work days and 6-day weeksWhen I was a systems consultant that was pretty much the norm .
As a consultant I got off easy compared to the regular employees .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Aren't a lot of white collar jobs like this now?- "Unending crunch periods"- 12-hour work days and 6-day weeksWhen I was a systems consultant that was pretty much the norm.
As a consultant I got off easy compared to the regular employees.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30877404</id>
	<title>Burned programmers don't code very well</title>
	<author>master\_p</author>
	<datestamp>1264337160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's a well known fact that if your mind get tired, the code you write is not that good. It's one of the reasons there is no overtime for programmers in the aerospace &amp; defense industry, where each bug may cost millions of dollars and possibly human lives.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's a well known fact that if your mind get tired , the code you write is not that good .
It 's one of the reasons there is no overtime for programmers in the aerospace &amp; defense industry , where each bug may cost millions of dollars and possibly human lives .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's a well known fact that if your mind get tired, the code you write is not that good.
It's one of the reasons there is no overtime for programmers in the aerospace &amp; defense industry, where each bug may cost millions of dollars and possibly human lives.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873282</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>omar.sahal</author>
	<datestamp>1264246980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't know about the actual working conditions at Rockstar games (or any other companies in this industry) , the article could be an accurate representation of life at this company. However there was one thing that struck me about this article, it seems unlikely to be the work of a large group of people (Determined Devoted Wives of Rockstar San Diego employees).
<p>
The tone of the open letter was as if it had been written by an individual whose first language was not English, see below for examples.
</p><blockquote><div><p>Little is there to motivate continuation as they also have lost a free vacation week between Christmas and New Year.</p></div>
</blockquote><blockquote><div><p>Besides bonuses, financial appreciation has lacked in other aspects as well. For four consecutive years, salary raises have not adjusted properly to cover inflation.</p></div>
</blockquote><blockquote><div><p>This is the course that naturally presents itself, as either these conditions were manufactured from unawareness and actions to improve conditions will prove such innocence. Or if no action is seen after this letter, it clear that other aspects are the cause of the deteriorated conditions of Rockstar San Diego employees and must be further addressed.</p></div>
</blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know about the actual working conditions at Rockstar games ( or any other companies in this industry ) , the article could be an accurate representation of life at this company .
However there was one thing that struck me about this article , it seems unlikely to be the work of a large group of people ( Determined Devoted Wives of Rockstar San Diego employees ) .
The tone of the open letter was as if it had been written by an individual whose first language was not English , see below for examples .
Little is there to motivate continuation as they also have lost a free vacation week between Christmas and New Year .
Besides bonuses , financial appreciation has lacked in other aspects as well .
For four consecutive years , salary raises have not adjusted properly to cover inflation .
This is the course that naturally presents itself , as either these conditions were manufactured from unawareness and actions to improve conditions will prove such innocence .
Or if no action is seen after this letter , it clear that other aspects are the cause of the deteriorated conditions of Rockstar San Diego employees and must be further addressed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know about the actual working conditions at Rockstar games (or any other companies in this industry) , the article could be an accurate representation of life at this company.
However there was one thing that struck me about this article, it seems unlikely to be the work of a large group of people (Determined Devoted Wives of Rockstar San Diego employees).
The tone of the open letter was as if it had been written by an individual whose first language was not English, see below for examples.
Little is there to motivate continuation as they also have lost a free vacation week between Christmas and New Year.
Besides bonuses, financial appreciation has lacked in other aspects as well.
For four consecutive years, salary raises have not adjusted properly to cover inflation.
This is the course that naturally presents itself, as either these conditions were manufactured from unawareness and actions to improve conditions will prove such innocence.
Or if no action is seen after this letter, it clear that other aspects are the cause of the deteriorated conditions of Rockstar San Diego employees and must be further addressed.

	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30870998</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871642</id>
	<title>They should not be complaining</title>
	<author>ZenPirate</author>
	<datestamp>1264278360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Normally I'd side with the workers, but in this case.... for the love of God be happy you have a job at all!!!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Normally I 'd side with the workers , but in this case.... for the love of God be happy you have a job at all ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Normally I'd side with the workers, but in this case.... for the love of God be happy you have a job at all!!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30884572</id>
	<title>Nope.</title>
	<author>jotaeleemeese</author>
	<datestamp>1264343580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have worked in several industries and never worked more than 40 hours/ week.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have worked in several industries and never worked more than 40 hours/ week .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have worked in several industries and never worked more than 40 hours/ week.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871530</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30874446</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264256820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not working such a job, because I'm not that stupid, gullible, or weak willed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not working such a job , because I 'm not that stupid , gullible , or weak willed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not working such a job, because I'm not that stupid, gullible, or weak willed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872800</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30900300</id>
	<title>Re:12 hour work days?</title>
	<author>jbezorg</author>
	<datestamp>1264441380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They only work part of the time. Every day but just part of the day. There are huge chunks of time when they're just asleep.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They only work part of the time .
Every day but just part of the day .
There are huge chunks of time when they 're just asleep .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They only work part of the time.
Every day but just part of the day.
There are huge chunks of time when they're just asleep.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30870978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871498</id>
	<title>Move on up out of a games team</title>
	<author>jabjoe</author>
	<datestamp>1264277460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Games teams are for single 20 somethings. As they become married, and parents, they should move into central teams where the pressure is less and their experience benefits the most games. Sure it's not as "cool" but by then you shouldn't care about that sort of thing.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Games teams are for single 20 somethings .
As they become married , and parents , they should move into central teams where the pressure is less and their experience benefits the most games .
Sure it 's not as " cool " but by then you should n't care about that sort of thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Games teams are for single 20 somethings.
As they become married, and parents, they should move into central teams where the pressure is less and their experience benefits the most games.
Sure it's not as "cool" but by then you shouldn't care about that sort of thing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871564</id>
	<title>Re:Organize stupid</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264277940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Have you ever tried to get another job while being pushed to do 80 hour weeks? When exactly are you going to interview? And how well do you think you will do on an interview when you are half-asleep? Especially if you have children and your wife had to quit because someone had to be home to get the home repairs done, feed the kids and take them to the doctor. At that point you are the sole provider, and if you are fired you are out of money - especially since coverage for a wife and kids on COBRA can net you a couple thousand a month.<br>How about if you don't like companies that do these things to their employees you don't buy their merchandise? Or that you start a rating organization much like what is done with the textile industry so that people can choose what pain they want to pay for with their products?<br>Actually, I know that is rhetorical - because the culture of programming is an elitist macho system where admitting foolishness or innocence gets a chorus of "you don't belong, and you deserve what you get", while staying up all night and living on junk food trumps getting it done right in a few hours.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Have you ever tried to get another job while being pushed to do 80 hour weeks ?
When exactly are you going to interview ?
And how well do you think you will do on an interview when you are half-asleep ?
Especially if you have children and your wife had to quit because someone had to be home to get the home repairs done , feed the kids and take them to the doctor .
At that point you are the sole provider , and if you are fired you are out of money - especially since coverage for a wife and kids on COBRA can net you a couple thousand a month.How about if you do n't like companies that do these things to their employees you do n't buy their merchandise ?
Or that you start a rating organization much like what is done with the textile industry so that people can choose what pain they want to pay for with their products ? Actually , I know that is rhetorical - because the culture of programming is an elitist macho system where admitting foolishness or innocence gets a chorus of " you do n't belong , and you deserve what you get " , while staying up all night and living on junk food trumps getting it done right in a few hours .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have you ever tried to get another job while being pushed to do 80 hour weeks?
When exactly are you going to interview?
And how well do you think you will do on an interview when you are half-asleep?
Especially if you have children and your wife had to quit because someone had to be home to get the home repairs done, feed the kids and take them to the doctor.
At that point you are the sole provider, and if you are fired you are out of money - especially since coverage for a wife and kids on COBRA can net you a couple thousand a month.How about if you don't like companies that do these things to their employees you don't buy their merchandise?
Or that you start a rating organization much like what is done with the textile industry so that people can choose what pain they want to pay for with their products?Actually, I know that is rhetorical - because the culture of programming is an elitist macho system where admitting foolishness or innocence gets a chorus of "you don't belong, and you deserve what you get", while staying up all night and living on junk food trumps getting it done right in a few hours.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871186</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872334</id>
	<title>6 months turns into ...</title>
	<author>PPH</author>
	<datestamp>1264239720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... years. This sounds like standard MBA resource planning to me. Management probably knows it will take years. But if they start out telling the staff that, people will pace themselves. So they turn it into a panic and get everyone psyched up for a 6 month push. Followed by another one, and on and on.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>"Work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion."
  -- C. Northcote Parkinson</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>... years. This sounds like standard MBA resource planning to me .
Management probably knows it will take years .
But if they start out telling the staff that , people will pace themselves .
So they turn it into a panic and get everyone psyched up for a 6 month push .
Followed by another one , and on and on .
" Work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion .
" -- C. Northcote Parkinson</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... years. This sounds like standard MBA resource planning to me.
Management probably knows it will take years.
But if they start out telling the staff that, people will pace themselves.
So they turn it into a panic and get everyone psyched up for a 6 month push.
Followed by another one, and on and on.
"Work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion.
"
  -- C. Northcote Parkinson
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30877038</id>
	<title>This must be fake.</title>
	<author>marqs</author>
	<datestamp>1264330860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Never heard of a developer that have a girlfriend so I think wives are totaly out of the question.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Never heard of a developer that have a girlfriend so I think wives are totaly out of the question .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Never heard of a developer that have a girlfriend so I think wives are totaly out of the question.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30877356</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>master\_p</author>
	<datestamp>1264336620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>But it's the fault of the employees</p></div></blockquote><p>

Right...and raped women are responsible for their rape.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>But it 's the fault of the employees Right...and raped women are responsible for their rape .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But it's the fault of the employees

Right...and raped women are responsible for their rape.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872658</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871000</id>
	<title>How to get management to listen</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264274400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>When will the management at game studios address this troubling issue properly?</i></p><p>They'll address it when people stop standing for it. If their developers quit, and they can't find replacements, then things will change.</p><p>Unfortunately, my experience in the industry has taught me that most developers are willing to put up with enormous amounts of crap so as "not to rock the boat".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When will the management at game studios address this troubling issue properly ? They 'll address it when people stop standing for it .
If their developers quit , and they ca n't find replacements , then things will change.Unfortunately , my experience in the industry has taught me that most developers are willing to put up with enormous amounts of crap so as " not to rock the boat " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When will the management at game studios address this troubling issue properly?They'll address it when people stop standing for it.
If their developers quit, and they can't find replacements, then things will change.Unfortunately, my experience in the industry has taught me that most developers are willing to put up with enormous amounts of crap so as "not to rock the boat".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871598</id>
	<title>Capitalism: A Love Story</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264278120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>watch the movie if you haven't already. It's a perfect counterbalance to the anniversary of communism.<br>It's better than I thought</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>watch the movie if you have n't already .
It 's a perfect counterbalance to the anniversary of communism.It 's better than I thought</tokentext>
<sentencetext>watch the movie if you haven't already.
It's a perfect counterbalance to the anniversary of communism.It's better than I thought</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30870978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30877048</id>
	<title>Re:12 hour work days?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264330920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm sorry. I thought they were talking about roadies for rock stars. Hauling speaker cabinets is a bitch.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm sorry .
I thought they were talking about roadies for rock stars .
Hauling speaker cabinets is a bitch .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm sorry.
I thought they were talking about roadies for rock stars.
Hauling speaker cabinets is a bitch.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30870978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872788</id>
	<title>Re:Organize stupid</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264243320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; 80 hour weeks<br>&gt; The conditions these jerk offs are working under are 1 million times better than anything industrial works get</p><p>Do you even read your post before you smash the 'submit' button?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; 80 hour weeks &gt; The conditions these jerk offs are working under are 1 million times better than anything industrial works getDo you even read your post before you smash the 'submit ' button ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; 80 hour weeks&gt; The conditions these jerk offs are working under are 1 million times better than anything industrial works getDo you even read your post before you smash the 'submit' button?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871186</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30876962</id>
	<title>Re:12 hour work days?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264329360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>5 whole minutes?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>5 whole minutes ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>5 whole minutes?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30877908</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>4D6963</author>
	<datestamp>1264345380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The really puzzling aspect of this is, whereas scientific management has been used for over a century in a lot of sectors of industry in order to optimise productivity, in software development, an industry that generates probably hundreds of billion dollars a year, it seems as if no one bothered to try and figure out what makes productivity peak.

</p><p>It's a decades old industry, the richest man in the world for a whole decade built his empire on that, yet even at that guy's company you probably couldn't find a manager at any level who could tell you of methodically determined ways to optimise the productivity of their workers! It's like saying "well, doesn't work too bad for us, not sure if it could work better, probably could... Meh, who cares!". Makes you almost wonder what good managers are, most might as well pick their deadlines by throwing darts at a calendar, and have you spend more time at the office even if you're spending half your day trying not to close your eyes than be there less but be more productive. A lot of managers still base their planning on the idea that man-hours mean anything in software engineering! Don't you have to know anything about management to be a manager or do people just improvise themselves one?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The really puzzling aspect of this is , whereas scientific management has been used for over a century in a lot of sectors of industry in order to optimise productivity , in software development , an industry that generates probably hundreds of billion dollars a year , it seems as if no one bothered to try and figure out what makes productivity peak .
It 's a decades old industry , the richest man in the world for a whole decade built his empire on that , yet even at that guy 's company you probably could n't find a manager at any level who could tell you of methodically determined ways to optimise the productivity of their workers !
It 's like saying " well , does n't work too bad for us , not sure if it could work better , probably could... Meh , who cares ! " .
Makes you almost wonder what good managers are , most might as well pick their deadlines by throwing darts at a calendar , and have you spend more time at the office even if you 're spending half your day trying not to close your eyes than be there less but be more productive .
A lot of managers still base their planning on the idea that man-hours mean anything in software engineering !
Do n't you have to know anything about management to be a manager or do people just improvise themselves one ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The really puzzling aspect of this is, whereas scientific management has been used for over a century in a lot of sectors of industry in order to optimise productivity, in software development, an industry that generates probably hundreds of billion dollars a year, it seems as if no one bothered to try and figure out what makes productivity peak.
It's a decades old industry, the richest man in the world for a whole decade built his empire on that, yet even at that guy's company you probably couldn't find a manager at any level who could tell you of methodically determined ways to optimise the productivity of their workers!
It's like saying "well, doesn't work too bad for us, not sure if it could work better, probably could... Meh, who cares!".
Makes you almost wonder what good managers are, most might as well pick their deadlines by throwing darts at a calendar, and have you spend more time at the office even if you're spending half your day trying not to close your eyes than be there less but be more productive.
A lot of managers still base their planning on the idea that man-hours mean anything in software engineering!
Don't you have to know anything about management to be a manager or do people just improvise themselves one?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872658</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871580</id>
	<title>Only 6 days a week?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264278000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've been working 7 days a week for the past two years. This article is making Rockstar sound pretty good to me (unless the pay is lower<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-).</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been working 7 days a week for the past two years .
This article is making Rockstar sound pretty good to me ( unless the pay is lower ; - ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been working 7 days a week for the past two years.
This article is making Rockstar sound pretty good to me (unless the pay is lower ;-).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873730</id>
	<title>Missing the point here!</title>
	<author>Taur0</author>
	<datestamp>1264250280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The real headline should be: Programmers at Rockstar have wives.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The real headline should be : Programmers at Rockstar have wives .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The real headline should be: Programmers at Rockstar have wives.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872264</id>
	<title>I'm sure</title>
	<author>/dev/trash</author>
	<datestamp>1264239060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The wives don't mind the money that comes in each paycheck.  Oh but I don't get to seeeeeee him until the game is done.  yeah and?</p><p>get a damned hobby.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The wives do n't mind the money that comes in each paycheck .
Oh but I do n't get to seeeeeee him until the game is done .
yeah and ? get a damned hobby .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The wives don't mind the money that comes in each paycheck.
Oh but I don't get to seeeeeee him until the game is done.
yeah and?get a damned hobby.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30877712</id>
	<title>Re:EA still like this</title>
	<author>Waccoon</author>
	<datestamp>1264342740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>He said this sort of thing was well understood at EA to mean that he wasn't spending enough time in the office, and quit.</p></div><p>A nice but completely empty example.</p><p>I find it hard that someone works at a workplace for 10 years, and then quits when they replace the sofa.  Either political bullshit had been eating away at him for some time and the sofa was the last straw, or he was a prima donna.  More details would be helpful.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>He said this sort of thing was well understood at EA to mean that he was n't spending enough time in the office , and quit.A nice but completely empty example.I find it hard that someone works at a workplace for 10 years , and then quits when they replace the sofa .
Either political bullshit had been eating away at him for some time and the sofa was the last straw , or he was a prima donna .
More details would be helpful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He said this sort of thing was well understood at EA to mean that he wasn't spending enough time in the office, and quit.A nice but completely empty example.I find it hard that someone works at a workplace for 10 years, and then quits when they replace the sofa.
Either political bullshit had been eating away at him for some time and the sofa was the last straw, or he was a prima donna.
More details would be helpful.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871094</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30874396</id>
	<title>time management</title>
	<author>icepick72</author>
	<datestamp>1264256340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>But what do their mistresses say?</htmltext>
<tokenext>But what do their mistresses say ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But what do their mistresses say?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871430</id>
	<title>Apparently Rockstar hasn't changed</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264277040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sounds like Rockstar hasn't changed much since my husband left.  For those who wonder why people don't just quit, a lot of it is tied up in the promises of big bonus.  Sometimes the end of project bonus is actually a significant amount of money but not always.  However, if you are contently told that if you hold on for 2 more weeks or 1 more month then you'll get your bonus, you hold on.  Then the project is extended.  Also when you are working 12-14 hours a day with no weekends or holidays, it's pretty hard to look for other jobs.  Any extra time you do have is spent trying to keep your relationships in some semblance of order or making sure you still own clean underwear.

There aren't a lot of older game programmers.  They burn out and/or decided that they don't want to miss their children growing up to ensure the blood splatters just right.  The wheel gets re-invented a lot because seasoned professionals are replaced with shiny new grads.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds like Rockstar has n't changed much since my husband left .
For those who wonder why people do n't just quit , a lot of it is tied up in the promises of big bonus .
Sometimes the end of project bonus is actually a significant amount of money but not always .
However , if you are contently told that if you hold on for 2 more weeks or 1 more month then you 'll get your bonus , you hold on .
Then the project is extended .
Also when you are working 12-14 hours a day with no weekends or holidays , it 's pretty hard to look for other jobs .
Any extra time you do have is spent trying to keep your relationships in some semblance of order or making sure you still own clean underwear .
There are n't a lot of older game programmers .
They burn out and/or decided that they do n't want to miss their children growing up to ensure the blood splatters just right .
The wheel gets re-invented a lot because seasoned professionals are replaced with shiny new grads .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds like Rockstar hasn't changed much since my husband left.
For those who wonder why people don't just quit, a lot of it is tied up in the promises of big bonus.
Sometimes the end of project bonus is actually a significant amount of money but not always.
However, if you are contently told that if you hold on for 2 more weeks or 1 more month then you'll get your bonus, you hold on.
Then the project is extended.
Also when you are working 12-14 hours a day with no weekends or holidays, it's pretty hard to look for other jobs.
Any extra time you do have is spent trying to keep your relationships in some semblance of order or making sure you still own clean underwear.
There aren't a lot of older game programmers.
They burn out and/or decided that they don't want to miss their children growing up to ensure the blood splatters just right.
The wheel gets re-invented a lot because seasoned professionals are replaced with shiny new grads.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30875516</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>mlievore</author>
	<datestamp>1264267080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Everyone talks like this happens only to IT industry! It happens everywhere. I work in the windows and door manufacturing industry that was a normal hours for us 12-hr day 6 days a week and then sometimes 7 days. So boo hoo to you people I've been living it for the past 5 years. Yeah during that time i had to go see a therapist for a while but i got over it. It may have created a rough spot or two in my marriage but again we got over it.  So put your chin up high and take like a man and get over it it called work nobody like it but we do cause it needs to be done.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Everyone talks like this happens only to IT industry !
It happens everywhere .
I work in the windows and door manufacturing industry that was a normal hours for us 12-hr day 6 days a week and then sometimes 7 days .
So boo hoo to you people I 've been living it for the past 5 years .
Yeah during that time i had to go see a therapist for a while but i got over it .
It may have created a rough spot or two in my marriage but again we got over it .
So put your chin up high and take like a man and get over it it called work nobody like it but we do cause it needs to be done .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everyone talks like this happens only to IT industry!
It happens everywhere.
I work in the windows and door manufacturing industry that was a normal hours for us 12-hr day 6 days a week and then sometimes 7 days.
So boo hoo to you people I've been living it for the past 5 years.
Yeah during that time i had to go see a therapist for a while but i got over it.
It may have created a rough spot or two in my marriage but again we got over it.
So put your chin up high and take like a man and get over it it called work nobody like it but we do cause it needs to be done.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30870998</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30879360</id>
	<title>former game developer bitches</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264355940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>former high profile game developer, worked on the operating systems of the 3DO, original PSX, and many high profile games. The game industry, the business, is about as corrupt a place as possible. Game developers, the people, are professionally naive fan boys to begin with who are smart enough to make these complex video games. And they get taken advantage of by the game studios to an unbelievable degree. Game designers and game producers are slimy, back stabbing, do-everything-verbally (so there's no official record of what they demanded) assholes.</p><p>I'm a bitter former star game developer. Fuck that industry. I hope something horrible happens and all the game studios burn down.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>former high profile game developer , worked on the operating systems of the 3DO , original PSX , and many high profile games .
The game industry , the business , is about as corrupt a place as possible .
Game developers , the people , are professionally naive fan boys to begin with who are smart enough to make these complex video games .
And they get taken advantage of by the game studios to an unbelievable degree .
Game designers and game producers are slimy , back stabbing , do-everything-verbally ( so there 's no official record of what they demanded ) assholes.I 'm a bitter former star game developer .
Fuck that industry .
I hope something horrible happens and all the game studios burn down .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>former high profile game developer, worked on the operating systems of the 3DO, original PSX, and many high profile games.
The game industry, the business, is about as corrupt a place as possible.
Game developers, the people, are professionally naive fan boys to begin with who are smart enough to make these complex video games.
And they get taken advantage of by the game studios to an unbelievable degree.
Game designers and game producers are slimy, back stabbing, do-everything-verbally (so there's no official record of what they demanded) assholes.I'm a bitter former star game developer.
Fuck that industry.
I hope something horrible happens and all the game studios burn down.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871362</id>
	<title>Re:Easy problem to solve</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264276680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Uh, are you an idiot?  Hourly paid employees do have rights. The DOJ cares about them. Do you work at Walmart?</p><p>"Exempt" employees are deemed "management" and therefore have to "do what it takes" to get the job done. This is typical for software developers, but most office workers too. If the exempt employee doesn't like the conditions, it is up the him/her to solve the problem - talk to your boss, figure out comp time (usually illegal), work out a bonus structure that doubles your salary on completion, or quit.</p><p>It really is that simple. The DOJ doesn't care.</p><p>When I left "employee" and became a contractor, my client implied that I should work more hours than I billed.  I raised my rates and still billed every hour. I was hoping they would fire me, but they didn't.  When that contract was up, I raised my rates for the new contract, they paid it, so I guess I was worth it.  I hardly ever worked/billed more than 45 hours a week. For a few weeks, during "crunch time", I would work and bill 60 hours, but never more than twice a year. After crunch, I took a 2 week vacation.</p><p>Finally, after 10 years of raising my rates, they demanded I become an employee or my contract wouldn't be renewed. I left. Thanks for all the "f0ck you money, guys!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Uh , are you an idiot ?
Hourly paid employees do have rights .
The DOJ cares about them .
Do you work at Walmart ?
" Exempt " employees are deemed " management " and therefore have to " do what it takes " to get the job done .
This is typical for software developers , but most office workers too .
If the exempt employee does n't like the conditions , it is up the him/her to solve the problem - talk to your boss , figure out comp time ( usually illegal ) , work out a bonus structure that doubles your salary on completion , or quit.It really is that simple .
The DOJ does n't care.When I left " employee " and became a contractor , my client implied that I should work more hours than I billed .
I raised my rates and still billed every hour .
I was hoping they would fire me , but they did n't .
When that contract was up , I raised my rates for the new contract , they paid it , so I guess I was worth it .
I hardly ever worked/billed more than 45 hours a week .
For a few weeks , during " crunch time " , I would work and bill 60 hours , but never more than twice a year .
After crunch , I took a 2 week vacation.Finally , after 10 years of raising my rates , they demanded I become an employee or my contract would n't be renewed .
I left .
Thanks for all the " f0ck you money , guys !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Uh, are you an idiot?
Hourly paid employees do have rights.
The DOJ cares about them.
Do you work at Walmart?
"Exempt" employees are deemed "management" and therefore have to "do what it takes" to get the job done.
This is typical for software developers, but most office workers too.
If the exempt employee doesn't like the conditions, it is up the him/her to solve the problem - talk to your boss, figure out comp time (usually illegal), work out a bonus structure that doubles your salary on completion, or quit.It really is that simple.
The DOJ doesn't care.When I left "employee" and became a contractor, my client implied that I should work more hours than I billed.
I raised my rates and still billed every hour.
I was hoping they would fire me, but they didn't.
When that contract was up, I raised my rates for the new contract, they paid it, so I guess I was worth it.
I hardly ever worked/billed more than 45 hours a week.
For a few weeks, during "crunch time", I would work and bill 60 hours, but never more than twice a year.
After crunch, I took a 2 week vacation.Finally, after 10 years of raising my rates, they demanded I become an employee or my contract wouldn't be renewed.
I left.
Thanks for all the "f0ck you money, guys!
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871120</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871030</id>
	<title>Welcome to Capitalism</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264274520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's the way it is - it's profitable for the company with no downside.<br> <br>
The only option is for employees to show that it will cost them in the long run through turnover and training new employees.<br> <br>
Alternately, unionization or government regulation are the only other options.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's the way it is - it 's profitable for the company with no downside .
The only option is for employees to show that it will cost them in the long run through turnover and training new employees .
Alternately , unionization or government regulation are the only other options .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's the way it is - it's profitable for the company with no downside.
The only option is for employees to show that it will cost them in the long run through turnover and training new employees.
Alternately, unionization or government regulation are the only other options.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30876016</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>chiguy</author>
	<datestamp>1264271400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Having worked in the industry, I agree with all the above.</p><p>But I think you give Managers and Coders too much credit.</p><p>The reason this kind of abuse happens routinely is Managers can get away with it and Coders let them.</p><p>This is just the <a href="http://www.prisonexp.org/" title="prisonexp.org" rel="nofollow">Stanford Prisoners' Experiment</a> [prisonexp.org] played out in real life.</p><p>If you don't like the situation, stop playing your roles.  And I promise you, the Managers love their roles.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Having worked in the industry , I agree with all the above.But I think you give Managers and Coders too much credit.The reason this kind of abuse happens routinely is Managers can get away with it and Coders let them.This is just the Stanford Prisoners ' Experiment [ prisonexp.org ] played out in real life.If you do n't like the situation , stop playing your roles .
And I promise you , the Managers love their roles .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having worked in the industry, I agree with all the above.But I think you give Managers and Coders too much credit.The reason this kind of abuse happens routinely is Managers can get away with it and Coders let them.This is just the Stanford Prisoners' Experiment [prisonexp.org] played out in real life.If you don't like the situation, stop playing your roles.
And I promise you, the Managers love their roles.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872658</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873874</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>ArmagedionTime</author>
	<datestamp>1264251480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Tell GM and Chrysler that labor unions do a lot of good...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Tell GM and Chrysler that labor unions do a lot of good.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tell GM and Chrysler that labor unions do a lot of good...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872800</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871054</id>
	<title>programmers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264274640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; When will the management at game studios address this troubling issue properly?</p><p>The day that programmers stop being yes-men and saying to their managers they can do it. I've been with EA 5 years. I know the drill. Once your team wises up and only signs up for what it can deliver, the crunch goes away.</p><p>Step 1: Be upfront and straightforward. Don't promise what you can't deliver.<br>Step 2: Dont' work more than 40 hours. Just leave after that.<br>Step 3: Profit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; When will the management at game studios address this troubling issue properly ? The day that programmers stop being yes-men and saying to their managers they can do it .
I 've been with EA 5 years .
I know the drill .
Once your team wises up and only signs up for what it can deliver , the crunch goes away.Step 1 : Be upfront and straightforward .
Do n't promise what you ca n't deliver.Step 2 : Dont ' work more than 40 hours .
Just leave after that.Step 3 : Profit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; When will the management at game studios address this troubling issue properly?The day that programmers stop being yes-men and saying to their managers they can do it.
I've been with EA 5 years.
I know the drill.
Once your team wises up and only signs up for what it can deliver, the crunch goes away.Step 1: Be upfront and straightforward.
Don't promise what you can't deliver.Step 2: Dont' work more than 40 hours.
Just leave after that.Step 3: Profit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30874294</id>
	<title>Vitamin D defiiciency may be part of this</title>
	<author>Paul Fernhout</author>
	<datestamp>1264255500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Treatment guidelines are here, especially important for slashdot types (like me<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-) who spend too much time indoors at the computer:<br>
&nbsp; <a href="http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/treatment.shtml" title="vitamindcouncil.org">http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/treatment.shtml</a> [vitamindcouncil.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Treatment guidelines are here , especially important for slashdot types ( like me : - ) who spend too much time indoors at the computer :   http : //www.vitamindcouncil.org/treatment.shtml [ vitamindcouncil.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Treatment guidelines are here, especially important for slashdot types (like me :-) who spend too much time indoors at the computer:
  http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/treatment.shtml [vitamindcouncil.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871144</id>
	<title>This is why I left the games industry.</title>
	<author>91degrees</author>
	<datestamp>1264275180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's not just Rockstar.  They're all the same.  <br> <br>
I worked in games for years before I finally managed to get out and get a job as a freelance contractor.  The last company I worked for was the worst - not through malice; just incompetence.  <br> <br>
Now, one particular time we were overloaded with projects.  I put in my hours.  I put in extra time when I decided it was needed.  The result was that I got criticised at appraisal for not putting in stupid amounts of overtime.  <br> <br>They did apologise for the heavy workload and promised they'd do somethign about it for futiure projects.  Next project there were demands to work every weekend and work late every night. <br> <br>
They gave lip service to work-life balance, but if anyone actually wants to apply this policy, they get nervous.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not just Rockstar .
They 're all the same .
I worked in games for years before I finally managed to get out and get a job as a freelance contractor .
The last company I worked for was the worst - not through malice ; just incompetence .
Now , one particular time we were overloaded with projects .
I put in my hours .
I put in extra time when I decided it was needed .
The result was that I got criticised at appraisal for not putting in stupid amounts of overtime .
They did apologise for the heavy workload and promised they 'd do somethign about it for futiure projects .
Next project there were demands to work every weekend and work late every night .
They gave lip service to work-life balance , but if anyone actually wants to apply this policy , they get nervous .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not just Rockstar.
They're all the same.
I worked in games for years before I finally managed to get out and get a job as a freelance contractor.
The last company I worked for was the worst - not through malice; just incompetence.
Now, one particular time we were overloaded with projects.
I put in my hours.
I put in extra time when I decided it was needed.
The result was that I got criticised at appraisal for not putting in stupid amounts of overtime.
They did apologise for the heavy workload and promised they'd do somethign about it for futiure projects.
Next project there were demands to work every weekend and work late every night.
They gave lip service to work-life balance, but if anyone actually wants to apply this policy, they get nervous.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30874686</id>
	<title>Re:EA still like this</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264259520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That is just silly.  I have been at EA a long time and something like that would go over very badly...unless it was expressly said as a joke.</p><p>EA used to be somewher like the R* letter says, but the last 4-5 years have seen significant improvements in all areas.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That is just silly .
I have been at EA a long time and something like that would go over very badly...unless it was expressly said as a joke.EA used to be somewher like the R * letter says , but the last 4-5 years have seen significant improvements in all areas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is just silly.
I have been at EA a long time and something like that would go over very badly...unless it was expressly said as a joke.EA used to be somewher like the R* letter says, but the last 4-5 years have seen significant improvements in all areas.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871094</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30876198</id>
	<title>Re:This is ridiculous.</title>
	<author>StuartHankins</author>
	<datestamp>1264273560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I refuse to work in an industry which has a history of abusing its own employees up to levels where it becomes dangerous for your live.</p></div><p>Gaming industry? No problem! HR will just add a cheat code so you start the game with more lives.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I refuse to work in an industry which has a history of abusing its own employees up to levels where it becomes dangerous for your live.Gaming industry ?
No problem !
HR will just add a cheat code so you start the game with more lives .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I refuse to work in an industry which has a history of abusing its own employees up to levels where it becomes dangerous for your live.Gaming industry?
No problem!
HR will just add a cheat code so you start the game with more lives.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871640</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30892888</id>
	<title>And yet they dare not say it's name...</title>
	<author>BoothbyTCD</author>
	<datestamp>1264444920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>'[U]tter agreement from the vast majority of staff on how to approach the matter.' has another name. It also begins with a U. Of course, 'union' is a dirty word on slashdot, and apparently in IT in general outside of government. Which is why these people continue to be exploited.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>' [ U ] tter agreement from the vast majority of staff on how to approach the matter .
' has another name .
It also begins with a U. Of course , 'union ' is a dirty word on slashdot , and apparently in IT in general outside of government .
Which is why these people continue to be exploited .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'[U]tter agreement from the vast majority of staff on how to approach the matter.
' has another name.
It also begins with a U. Of course, 'union' is a dirty word on slashdot, and apparently in IT in general outside of government.
Which is why these people continue to be exploited.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871952</id>
	<title>Re:so why is Rockstar losing money?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264280220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They could lose a lot less if they sold their iPhone and psp product in more than just the usa and eu.<br>We want to but Chinatown wars but simply can't. Are you stupid or just can't find the countries screen in iTunes Connect?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They could lose a lot less if they sold their iPhone and psp product in more than just the usa and eu.We want to but Chinatown wars but simply ca n't .
Are you stupid or just ca n't find the countries screen in iTunes Connect ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They could lose a lot less if they sold their iPhone and psp product in more than just the usa and eu.We want to but Chinatown wars but simply can't.
Are you stupid or just can't find the countries screen in iTunes Connect?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873974</id>
	<title>sexist headline</title>
	<author>malp</author>
	<datestamp>1264252440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. implying only lesbians and men work at r*?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is / .
implying only lesbians and men work at r * ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is /.
implying only lesbians and men work at r*?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873568</id>
	<title>Re:EA still like this</title>
	<author>creimer</author>
	<datestamp>1264249080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Plus he was turning 30 was a contributing factor.  One tester I knew was given a copy "Logan's Run" when he turned 30 by his manager and soon quit after that.  Age discrimination is huge in the video game industry.  Unless you're high up in management or start your own studio, 30 is retirement age.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Plus he was turning 30 was a contributing factor .
One tester I knew was given a copy " Logan 's Run " when he turned 30 by his manager and soon quit after that .
Age discrimination is huge in the video game industry .
Unless you 're high up in management or start your own studio , 30 is retirement age .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Plus he was turning 30 was a contributing factor.
One tester I knew was given a copy "Logan's Run" when he turned 30 by his manager and soon quit after that.
Age discrimination is huge in the video game industry.
Unless you're high up in management or start your own studio, 30 is retirement age.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871094</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871972</id>
	<title>No sympathy...</title>
	<author>Charliemopps</author>
	<datestamp>1264280340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Lets not forget most of these guys make a metric shitton more money than most of the rest of us. Quit and get a factory job like the majority of us and I'll listen to you complain. Right now you're a programmer, writing some of the most popular games on the market and building a reputation for yourself that will land you a job anywhere you want in the future. My guess is most of these guys love putting in these kind of hours doing this sort of things and their excuse to their wives is "The company makes me do it!!"</htmltext>
<tokenext>Lets not forget most of these guys make a metric shitton more money than most of the rest of us .
Quit and get a factory job like the majority of us and I 'll listen to you complain .
Right now you 're a programmer , writing some of the most popular games on the market and building a reputation for yourself that will land you a job anywhere you want in the future .
My guess is most of these guys love putting in these kind of hours doing this sort of things and their excuse to their wives is " The company makes me do it ! !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lets not forget most of these guys make a metric shitton more money than most of the rest of us.
Quit and get a factory job like the majority of us and I'll listen to you complain.
Right now you're a programmer, writing some of the most popular games on the market and building a reputation for yourself that will land you a job anywhere you want in the future.
My guess is most of these guys love putting in these kind of hours doing this sort of things and their excuse to their wives is "The company makes me do it!!
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872164</id>
	<title>Re:Easy problem to solve</title>
	<author>greg\_barton</author>
	<datestamp>1264238580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And now is the time to sue.  Politically, there may be no better time.</p><p>* During the 90's there was too much potential for upward mobility.  Exploited employees didn't want to risk their chances of making it big. (boy, didn't that work out?)<br>* During the 200* years, we had a republican administration more than happy to forget you'd filed a complaint.</p><p>Now there's recession and a democratic administration that's willing to actually enforce the law.  Both factors could change soon. (Hopefully the recession before the democratic administration...)</p><p>So strike while the iron is hot, boys.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And now is the time to sue .
Politically , there may be no better time .
* During the 90 's there was too much potential for upward mobility .
Exploited employees did n't want to risk their chances of making it big .
( boy , did n't that work out ?
) * During the 200 * years , we had a republican administration more than happy to forget you 'd filed a complaint.Now there 's recession and a democratic administration that 's willing to actually enforce the law .
Both factors could change soon .
( Hopefully the recession before the democratic administration... ) So strike while the iron is hot , boys .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And now is the time to sue.
Politically, there may be no better time.
* During the 90's there was too much potential for upward mobility.
Exploited employees didn't want to risk their chances of making it big.
(boy, didn't that work out?
)* During the 200* years, we had a republican administration more than happy to forget you'd filed a complaint.Now there's recession and a democratic administration that's willing to actually enforce the law.
Both factors could change soon.
(Hopefully the recession before the democratic administration...)So strike while the iron is hot, boys.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871120</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871252</id>
	<title>Welcome to the entertainment industry!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264275960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I hate to break it to them but those are normal hours in the film industry. Back in the 80s it was much worse. We often worked two days and at time three days straight. When you were on a deadline 7 days a week and 12 to 16 hour days weren't unusual. In the 80s overtime was all but unknown for non union work. Enforcing overtime and a flood of younger workers changed things somewhat in the 90s. On set things haven't changed much. The problem is you are talking several hours or prep and at least an hour of wrap. If you do an 8 hour day you get 5 hours of actual shooting. Trust me 12 hours behind a desk aren't the same as 12+ hours of constant motion. One of the biggest changes is a lot of people used to do it out of love but now it's become just a job. It was actually more fun back when we were doing 80+ hour weeks and loved what we did.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I hate to break it to them but those are normal hours in the film industry .
Back in the 80s it was much worse .
We often worked two days and at time three days straight .
When you were on a deadline 7 days a week and 12 to 16 hour days were n't unusual .
In the 80s overtime was all but unknown for non union work .
Enforcing overtime and a flood of younger workers changed things somewhat in the 90s .
On set things have n't changed much .
The problem is you are talking several hours or prep and at least an hour of wrap .
If you do an 8 hour day you get 5 hours of actual shooting .
Trust me 12 hours behind a desk are n't the same as 12 + hours of constant motion .
One of the biggest changes is a lot of people used to do it out of love but now it 's become just a job .
It was actually more fun back when we were doing 80 + hour weeks and loved what we did .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hate to break it to them but those are normal hours in the film industry.
Back in the 80s it was much worse.
We often worked two days and at time three days straight.
When you were on a deadline 7 days a week and 12 to 16 hour days weren't unusual.
In the 80s overtime was all but unknown for non union work.
Enforcing overtime and a flood of younger workers changed things somewhat in the 90s.
On set things haven't changed much.
The problem is you are talking several hours or prep and at least an hour of wrap.
If you do an 8 hour day you get 5 hours of actual shooting.
Trust me 12 hours behind a desk aren't the same as 12+ hours of constant motion.
One of the biggest changes is a lot of people used to do it out of love but now it's become just a job.
It was actually more fun back when we were doing 80+ hour weeks and loved what we did.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872074</id>
	<title>So in other words...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264238040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's a whole lotta Rockstar employees' wives who need some pipe layed.  San Diego, here I come!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's a whole lotta Rockstar employees ' wives who need some pipe layed .
San Diego , here I come !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's a whole lotta Rockstar employees' wives who need some pipe layed.
San Diego, here I come!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30870978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30873486</id>
	<title>Whine some more please ...</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1264248300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My wife is a USDA vet supervising inspectors at a meat processing planet.</p><p>The employees there work 12 hour days, 6 or 7 days a week depending on whats going on at the various local farms.</p><p>If the guys slaughtering animals, and doing back breaking manual labor for minimum wage aren't bitching and are happy to be employeed, please tell me why I should give flying fuck about the whining of some well paid desk jockey who has been educated so could easily go do something else?</p><p>You ever wonder why people offshore jobs?  Here is a good example.</p><p>Bunch of spoiled brats.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My wife is a USDA vet supervising inspectors at a meat processing planet.The employees there work 12 hour days , 6 or 7 days a week depending on whats going on at the various local farms.If the guys slaughtering animals , and doing back breaking manual labor for minimum wage are n't bitching and are happy to be employeed , please tell me why I should give flying fuck about the whining of some well paid desk jockey who has been educated so could easily go do something else ? You ever wonder why people offshore jobs ?
Here is a good example.Bunch of spoiled brats .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My wife is a USDA vet supervising inspectors at a meat processing planet.The employees there work 12 hour days, 6 or 7 days a week depending on whats going on at the various local farms.If the guys slaughtering animals, and doing back breaking manual labor for minimum wage aren't bitching and are happy to be employeed, please tell me why I should give flying fuck about the whining of some well paid desk jockey who has been educated so could easily go do something else?You ever wonder why people offshore jobs?
Here is a good example.Bunch of spoiled brats.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30874268</id>
	<title>Re:Say Wives....</title>
	<author>mad.frog</author>
	<datestamp>1264255260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>12 hours a day, 6 days a week is not that bad, that's 72 hours a week</p></div><p>It is if you are only getting paid for 40 hours...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>12 hours a day , 6 days a week is not that bad , that 's 72 hours a weekIt is if you are only getting paid for 40 hours.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>12 hours a day, 6 days a week is not that bad, that's 72 hours a weekIt is if you are only getting paid for 40 hours...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872596</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30872084</id>
	<title>Ah yes,</title>
	<author>icepick72</author>
	<datestamp>1264238100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>the puppy mill for young and fledgling programmers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>the puppy mill for young and fledgling programmers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the puppy mill for young and fledgling programmers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30874174</id>
	<title>Re:Welcome to Capitalism</title>
	<author>mad.frog</author>
	<datestamp>1264254420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The only option is for employees to show that it will cost them in the long run through turnover and training new employees</p></div><p>Yeah, except that in this case, it won't. Most games are failures; it's totally a hit-driven business. So, for the most part, writing a coherent, maintainable, well-written-and-architected piece of code is a NON-GOAL in this industry. It's far more profitable to write a pile of crappy code (licensing libraries where possible) that can be thrown away in the (likely) event of product failure.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only option is for employees to show that it will cost them in the long run through turnover and training new employeesYeah , except that in this case , it wo n't .
Most games are failures ; it 's totally a hit-driven business .
So , for the most part , writing a coherent , maintainable , well-written-and-architected piece of code is a NON-GOAL in this industry .
It 's far more profitable to write a pile of crappy code ( licensing libraries where possible ) that can be thrown away in the ( likely ) event of product failure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only option is for employees to show that it will cost them in the long run through turnover and training new employeesYeah, except that in this case, it won't.
Most games are failures; it's totally a hit-driven business.
So, for the most part, writing a coherent, maintainable, well-written-and-architected piece of code is a NON-GOAL in this industry.
It's far more profitable to write a pile of crappy code (licensing libraries where possible) that can be thrown away in the (likely) event of product failure.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30875230</id>
	<title>Hit and Miss</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264264080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In 6 or so years of experience, I am starting to find that companies may be 'hit or miss' with regard to this management behavior.  It's sort of sad to me &amp; I believe encourages inefficiency.  I believe long-term afterburner use ends up lowering efficiency and quality.  This, and it would seem that employees that are the most effective at delivering typically understand the warning signs when management starts going down this path and are halfway out the door by the time the MBA jockeys and the Jack Welch acolytes gain their footing.  It's not that I've completely lost hope of long-term stable employment in a company with effective and efficient management that know how to get the most out of their people.  I just don't expect it anymore.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In 6 or so years of experience , I am starting to find that companies may be 'hit or miss ' with regard to this management behavior .
It 's sort of sad to me &amp; I believe encourages inefficiency .
I believe long-term afterburner use ends up lowering efficiency and quality .
This , and it would seem that employees that are the most effective at delivering typically understand the warning signs when management starts going down this path and are halfway out the door by the time the MBA jockeys and the Jack Welch acolytes gain their footing .
It 's not that I 've completely lost hope of long-term stable employment in a company with effective and efficient management that know how to get the most out of their people .
I just do n't expect it anymore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In 6 or so years of experience, I am starting to find that companies may be 'hit or miss' with regard to this management behavior.
It's sort of sad to me &amp; I believe encourages inefficiency.
I believe long-term afterburner use ends up lowering efficiency and quality.
This, and it would seem that employees that are the most effective at delivering typically understand the warning signs when management starts going down this path and are halfway out the door by the time the MBA jockeys and the Jack Welch acolytes gain their footing.
It's not that I've completely lost hope of long-term stable employment in a company with effective and efficient management that know how to get the most out of their people.
I just don't expect it anymore.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30871500</id>
	<title>Could be worse</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264277460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What's the problem? 6 12 hour days a week is only 72 hours. The current 'guidelines' for resident doctors is 80 hours/week, and no more than 30 or 36 hours in a row. If residents can make life-or-death decisions on that little downtime, why can't developers write code with even more time off?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What 's the problem ?
6 12 hour days a week is only 72 hours .
The current 'guidelines ' for resident doctors is 80 hours/week , and no more than 30 or 36 hours in a row .
If residents can make life-or-death decisions on that little downtime , why ca n't developers write code with even more time off ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What's the problem?
6 12 hour days a week is only 72 hours.
The current 'guidelines' for resident doctors is 80 hours/week, and no more than 30 or 36 hours in a row.
If residents can make life-or-death decisions on that little downtime, why can't developers write code with even more time off?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_177206.30875402</id>
	<title>Oh boo hoo.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264265640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not that this is right, but hey, if you want a six figure salary, live in San Diego, big house , nice car you should have expected it. The rest of us or more then happy to have a more realistic salary, modest living and far more time with our family. Plus some of these game companies are just burning through money and losing it just as fast.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not that this is right , but hey , if you want a six figure salary , live in San Diego , big house , nice car you should have expected it .
The rest of us or more then happy to have a more realistic salary , modest living and far more time with our family .
Plus some of these game companies are just burning through money and losing it just as fast .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not that this is right, but hey, if you want a six figure salary, live in San Diego, big house , nice car you should have expected it.
The rest of us or more then happy to have a more realistic salary, modest living and far more time with our family.
Plus some of these game companies are just burning through money and losing it just as fast.</sentencetext>
</comment>
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