<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_01_19_025255</id>
	<title>The Year of the E-Bicycle</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1263930000000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>theodp writes <i>"Electric bicycles have been around for more than a century, but they have never quite captured the imagination of auto-obsessed Americans. <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/17/business/17ping.html?em">That may be about to change</a>. At CES this month, Sanyo showed off its sleek, lightweight <a href="http://us.sanyo.com/Consumer-eneloop-bike">Eneloop Hybrid Bicycle</a>. Priced at $2,300, the e-bike sports a black lithium-ion battery strapped to the frame beneath the seat. Press a button on the left handlebar, and a 250-watt motor kicks in, providing about twice as much power as your own pedaling. Some basic e-bike models, like the <a href="http://www.ezipusa.com/category.php?id\_category=4">Ezip Trailz</a> can be had for as low as $500. Both Trek and Schwinn began selling e-bikes last year, and Best Buy is offering e-bikes in three test markets: Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Portland, OR."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>theodp writes " Electric bicycles have been around for more than a century , but they have never quite captured the imagination of auto-obsessed Americans .
That may be about to change .
At CES this month , Sanyo showed off its sleek , lightweight Eneloop Hybrid Bicycle .
Priced at $ 2,300 , the e-bike sports a black lithium-ion battery strapped to the frame beneath the seat .
Press a button on the left handlebar , and a 250-watt motor kicks in , providing about twice as much power as your own pedaling .
Some basic e-bike models , like the Ezip Trailz can be had for as low as $ 500 .
Both Trek and Schwinn began selling e-bikes last year , and Best Buy is offering e-bikes in three test markets : Los Angeles , San Francisco , and Portland , OR .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>theodp writes "Electric bicycles have been around for more than a century, but they have never quite captured the imagination of auto-obsessed Americans.
That may be about to change.
At CES this month, Sanyo showed off its sleek, lightweight Eneloop Hybrid Bicycle.
Priced at $2,300, the e-bike sports a black lithium-ion battery strapped to the frame beneath the seat.
Press a button on the left handlebar, and a 250-watt motor kicks in, providing about twice as much power as your own pedaling.
Some basic e-bike models, like the Ezip Trailz can be had for as low as $500.
Both Trek and Schwinn began selling e-bikes last year, and Best Buy is offering e-bikes in three test markets: Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Portland, OR.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817244</id>
	<title>Re:best quote</title>
	<author>plasticsquirrel</author>
	<datestamp>1263895260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In most places those bikes are cheap even for the average person. Only the truly poor people would have any problems getting one, as they are only $200. It's cars that are the real status symbol, and people are so proud that they won't even buy a used car. The only acceptable car is a brand new car (think $50,000-75,000 in equivalent U.S. value), often a nice BMW or similar luxury European car. They will even borrow money from family and friends, but usually not a bank (that's looked down upon), all so they can buy something new and special to show off. The way cars and clothes are used as status symbols here is terrible. If you want to see vanity at its worst, come to China and look at the rich people. I don't even feel comfortable around the middle class people, really.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In most places those bikes are cheap even for the average person .
Only the truly poor people would have any problems getting one , as they are only $ 200 .
It 's cars that are the real status symbol , and people are so proud that they wo n't even buy a used car .
The only acceptable car is a brand new car ( think $ 50,000-75,000 in equivalent U.S. value ) , often a nice BMW or similar luxury European car .
They will even borrow money from family and friends , but usually not a bank ( that 's looked down upon ) , all so they can buy something new and special to show off .
The way cars and clothes are used as status symbols here is terrible .
If you want to see vanity at its worst , come to China and look at the rich people .
I do n't even feel comfortable around the middle class people , really .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In most places those bikes are cheap even for the average person.
Only the truly poor people would have any problems getting one, as they are only $200.
It's cars that are the real status symbol, and people are so proud that they won't even buy a used car.
The only acceptable car is a brand new car (think $50,000-75,000 in equivalent U.S. value), often a nice BMW or similar luxury European car.
They will even borrow money from family and friends, but usually not a bank (that's looked down upon), all so they can buy something new and special to show off.
The way cars and clothes are used as status symbols here is terrible.
If you want to see vanity at its worst, come to China and look at the rich people.
I don't even feel comfortable around the middle class people, really.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816888</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30819992</id>
	<title>Still cost too much</title>
	<author>bkr1\_2k</author>
	<datestamp>1263920160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The interest in these has never been lacking.  They simply cost too much for a reasonably well designed model to make any real headway though.  If they could get the low end down to below $300 and the high end closer to $800-$1000 they might actually make some progress, but until then, there will be no significant change in the way people use bicycles.</p><p>Especially when you consider the fact that most people (in the USA at least) use bicycles because they either can't afford something more practical/versatile or are using it as a way to exercise.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The interest in these has never been lacking .
They simply cost too much for a reasonably well designed model to make any real headway though .
If they could get the low end down to below $ 300 and the high end closer to $ 800- $ 1000 they might actually make some progress , but until then , there will be no significant change in the way people use bicycles.Especially when you consider the fact that most people ( in the USA at least ) use bicycles because they either ca n't afford something more practical/versatile or are using it as a way to exercise .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The interest in these has never been lacking.
They simply cost too much for a reasonably well designed model to make any real headway though.
If they could get the low end down to below $300 and the high end closer to $800-$1000 they might actually make some progress, but until then, there will be no significant change in the way people use bicycles.Especially when you consider the fact that most people (in the USA at least) use bicycles because they either can't afford something more practical/versatile or are using it as a way to exercise.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818828</id>
	<title>IWhy Bicycles aren't popular</title>
	<author>rossdee</author>
	<datestamp>1263914640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Electric bicycles have been around for more than a century, but they have never quite captured the imagination of auto-obsessed Americans. "</p><p>That may be due to the fact that in america we have this phenomena called weather. 2 wheeled vehicles don't work so well on ice and snow covered streets, and -30 degree wind chills are not pleasent when riding.</p><p>Batteries don't work as well at 20 below either, people have trouble starting their cars. I would think that a bicycle with a battery that is parked outside won't go very far. At least a hybrid car has the gas engine to warm it up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Electric bicycles have been around for more than a century , but they have never quite captured the imagination of auto-obsessed Americans .
" That may be due to the fact that in america we have this phenomena called weather .
2 wheeled vehicles do n't work so well on ice and snow covered streets , and -30 degree wind chills are not pleasent when riding.Batteries do n't work as well at 20 below either , people have trouble starting their cars .
I would think that a bicycle with a battery that is parked outside wo n't go very far .
At least a hybrid car has the gas engine to warm it up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Electric bicycles have been around for more than a century, but they have never quite captured the imagination of auto-obsessed Americans.
"That may be due to the fact that in america we have this phenomena called weather.
2 wheeled vehicles don't work so well on ice and snow covered streets, and -30 degree wind chills are not pleasent when riding.Batteries don't work as well at 20 below either, people have trouble starting their cars.
I would think that a bicycle with a battery that is parked outside won't go very far.
At least a hybrid car has the gas engine to warm it up.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817316</id>
	<title>Not new, not nearly.</title>
	<author>SuperGus</author>
	<datestamp>1263896160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ho hum. Electric assist bicycles have been on the streets for years over here in Japan, most often seen on the "Mama-rin" or shopping/school commute bikes used by mothers around town. Moms load them up with groceries and one or even two kids. Typically can be had for around 800-1000 USD in price. Ugly beasts but practical and popular. Por ejemplo:<br> <br>



http://www.yamaha-motor.jp/pas/</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ho hum .
Electric assist bicycles have been on the streets for years over here in Japan , most often seen on the " Mama-rin " or shopping/school commute bikes used by mothers around town .
Moms load them up with groceries and one or even two kids .
Typically can be had for around 800-1000 USD in price .
Ugly beasts but practical and popular .
Por ejemplo : http : //www.yamaha-motor.jp/pas/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ho hum.
Electric assist bicycles have been on the streets for years over here in Japan, most often seen on the "Mama-rin" or shopping/school commute bikes used by mothers around town.
Moms load them up with groceries and one or even two kids.
Typically can be had for around 800-1000 USD in price.
Ugly beasts but practical and popular.
Por ejemplo: 



http://www.yamaha-motor.jp/pas/</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817360</id>
	<title>The point is going faster.</title>
	<author>cduffy</author>
	<datestamp>1263896760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Going faster means you can go further in the same amount of time.</p><p>My (hilly) commute takes 1h15m each way on my regular commuter, 45m each way on my electric-assist. I'm still putting in the same effort either way, but on the ebike I go <i>waaay</i> faster for that same effort -- which means that longer distances are practical on a day-to-day basis.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Going faster means you can go further in the same amount of time.My ( hilly ) commute takes 1h15m each way on my regular commuter , 45m each way on my electric-assist .
I 'm still putting in the same effort either way , but on the ebike I go waaay faster for that same effort -- which means that longer distances are practical on a day-to-day basis .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Going faster means you can go further in the same amount of time.My (hilly) commute takes 1h15m each way on my regular commuter, 45m each way on my electric-assist.
I'm still putting in the same effort either way, but on the ebike I go waaay faster for that same effort -- which means that longer distances are practical on a day-to-day basis.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816956</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818486</id>
	<title>Re:What's the point? Sweat.</title>
	<author>guidryp</author>
	<datestamp>1263912360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you ever cycle commuted, you should know that the main issue isn't getting "worn out", it is arriving soaked in sweat.</p><p>You need shower facilities, you need to bring a change of clothing, store sweaty clothes etc... To much aggravation for me.</p><p>But if I could just twist and go and arrive clean and dry at work, then it would be viable. I could pedal on the way home.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you ever cycle commuted , you should know that the main issue is n't getting " worn out " , it is arriving soaked in sweat.You need shower facilities , you need to bring a change of clothing , store sweaty clothes etc... To much aggravation for me.But if I could just twist and go and arrive clean and dry at work , then it would be viable .
I could pedal on the way home .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you ever cycle commuted, you should know that the main issue isn't getting "worn out", it is arriving soaked in sweat.You need shower facilities, you need to bring a change of clothing, store sweaty clothes etc... To much aggravation for me.But if I could just twist and go and arrive clean and dry at work, then it would be viable.
I could pedal on the way home.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816956</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817398</id>
	<title>YEARS of the E-Bicycle in China</title>
	<author>LS</author>
	<datestamp>1263897240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They've been here in China since I got here (5 years ago), and they can easily be had for under 150 bucks US.  There are all kinds of models with different ranges.  They are already mainstream and not a trend.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They 've been here in China since I got here ( 5 years ago ) , and they can easily be had for under 150 bucks US .
There are all kinds of models with different ranges .
They are already mainstream and not a trend .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They've been here in China since I got here (5 years ago), and they can easily be had for under 150 bucks US.
There are all kinds of models with different ranges.
They are already mainstream and not a trend.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817982</id>
	<title>They ARE motorcycles under the law in some states.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263906060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Note that E-Bikes have to be registered as motorcycles in some states (such as Utah).<br>"A motorcycle... has a motor<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... three or less wheels on the ground<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... not a farm tractor"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Note that E-Bikes have to be registered as motorcycles in some states ( such as Utah ) .
" A motorcycle... has a motor ... three or less wheels on the ground ... not a farm tractor "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Note that E-Bikes have to be registered as motorcycles in some states (such as Utah).
"A motorcycle... has a motor ... three or less wheels on the ground ... not a farm tractor"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30821128</id>
	<title>Re:the alternatives are 10x cheaper</title>
	<author>cduffy</author>
	<datestamp>1263924900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Thats insane considering the alternatives. I can find a used *car* for that price.</p></div></blockquote><p>I could find (no, <i>have bought</i>) a used car for the cost of the frakkin' GPS and headlights sitting on my handlebars and helmet. What's your point?</p><p>I don't have that many pet peeves, but the "you're on a bike? -- must be too poor to drive a car" kneejerk response is among them. We've seen that here with business owners objecting to a proposed bicycle boulevard project, though the numbers from other cities show that similar measures have resulted in <i>dramatic</i> increases in residential and retail property values elsewhere (in part because cyclists and pedestrians are going slow enough to actually notice the places they're passing, and thus generate more incidental traffic).</p><p>Do you call people who buy sports cars from Tesla idiots too? They're spending some money -- but it's money they have to spend (meaning it's coming out of an income source much higher than that $50K median), and they're getting a unique vehicle and the experience that comes with it. How is it your place or mine to say how well someone else's money is spent?</p><p>Further, there are very good reasons to be willing to spend some money on a quality conventional bicycle. If you're using something as your commute day-in and day-out, the last thing you want is back pain (or knee pain, or shoulder pain, or any of the other problems that can come from a poorly-fit bike). If you want something you can haul large amounts of cargo with (and by "large amounts" I mean <a href="http://www.xtracycle.com/" title="xtracycle.com">several hundred pounds with lots of bulk</a> [xtracycle.com]), not a single one of the crappy cheap bikes that Wal-Mart or Target sells will do the trick, and (for that matter) not that many specialty shops sell longtail cargo haulers either.</p><p>Anyhow -- sure, you could find a car for that price, but sometimes a car isn't practical.</p><p>If you live in the city, parking is bloody expensive. Have only one parking spot for your two-person family, and both of you have jobs? If you ride a bike, that's not a problem.</p><p>Mandatory liability insurance? Bicycles very rarely generate substantial liability, hence such laws don't apply. Vehicle registration fees? In my state, those go to fund highways rather than regular roads; bicycles don't use highways, thus moot. Gasoline? Hah.</p><p>A folding bike (there are some <a href="http://www.bikefriday.com/" title="bikefriday.com">good ones</a> [bikefriday.com], and the custom builds tend to run in the neighborhood of or somewhat more than that $2300 watermark) will let you take public transportation for part of your commute or <i>bring your vehicle with you when you travel by air</i>. <b>You can't do that with <i>any</i> car.</b></p><p>If you get a cheap used car, it'll need lots of TLC and maintenance -- and the skills and tools to do bicycle maintenance yourself are much cheaper.</p><p>A bicycle in the $2-4K range can be the Right Vehicle for many people.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Thats insane considering the alternatives .
I can find a used * car * for that price.I could find ( no , have bought ) a used car for the cost of the frakkin ' GPS and headlights sitting on my handlebars and helmet .
What 's your point ? I do n't have that many pet peeves , but the " you 're on a bike ?
-- must be too poor to drive a car " kneejerk response is among them .
We 've seen that here with business owners objecting to a proposed bicycle boulevard project , though the numbers from other cities show that similar measures have resulted in dramatic increases in residential and retail property values elsewhere ( in part because cyclists and pedestrians are going slow enough to actually notice the places they 're passing , and thus generate more incidental traffic ) .Do you call people who buy sports cars from Tesla idiots too ?
They 're spending some money -- but it 's money they have to spend ( meaning it 's coming out of an income source much higher than that $ 50K median ) , and they 're getting a unique vehicle and the experience that comes with it .
How is it your place or mine to say how well someone else 's money is spent ? Further , there are very good reasons to be willing to spend some money on a quality conventional bicycle .
If you 're using something as your commute day-in and day-out , the last thing you want is back pain ( or knee pain , or shoulder pain , or any of the other problems that can come from a poorly-fit bike ) .
If you want something you can haul large amounts of cargo with ( and by " large amounts " I mean several hundred pounds with lots of bulk [ xtracycle.com ] ) , not a single one of the crappy cheap bikes that Wal-Mart or Target sells will do the trick , and ( for that matter ) not that many specialty shops sell longtail cargo haulers either.Anyhow -- sure , you could find a car for that price , but sometimes a car is n't practical.If you live in the city , parking is bloody expensive .
Have only one parking spot for your two-person family , and both of you have jobs ?
If you ride a bike , that 's not a problem.Mandatory liability insurance ?
Bicycles very rarely generate substantial liability , hence such laws do n't apply .
Vehicle registration fees ?
In my state , those go to fund highways rather than regular roads ; bicycles do n't use highways , thus moot .
Gasoline ? Hah.A folding bike ( there are some good ones [ bikefriday.com ] , and the custom builds tend to run in the neighborhood of or somewhat more than that $ 2300 watermark ) will let you take public transportation for part of your commute or bring your vehicle with you when you travel by air .
You ca n't do that with any car.If you get a cheap used car , it 'll need lots of TLC and maintenance -- and the skills and tools to do bicycle maintenance yourself are much cheaper.A bicycle in the $ 2-4K range can be the Right Vehicle for many people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thats insane considering the alternatives.
I can find a used *car* for that price.I could find (no, have bought) a used car for the cost of the frakkin' GPS and headlights sitting on my handlebars and helmet.
What's your point?I don't have that many pet peeves, but the "you're on a bike?
-- must be too poor to drive a car" kneejerk response is among them.
We've seen that here with business owners objecting to a proposed bicycle boulevard project, though the numbers from other cities show that similar measures have resulted in dramatic increases in residential and retail property values elsewhere (in part because cyclists and pedestrians are going slow enough to actually notice the places they're passing, and thus generate more incidental traffic).Do you call people who buy sports cars from Tesla idiots too?
They're spending some money -- but it's money they have to spend (meaning it's coming out of an income source much higher than that $50K median), and they're getting a unique vehicle and the experience that comes with it.
How is it your place or mine to say how well someone else's money is spent?Further, there are very good reasons to be willing to spend some money on a quality conventional bicycle.
If you're using something as your commute day-in and day-out, the last thing you want is back pain (or knee pain, or shoulder pain, or any of the other problems that can come from a poorly-fit bike).
If you want something you can haul large amounts of cargo with (and by "large amounts" I mean several hundred pounds with lots of bulk [xtracycle.com]), not a single one of the crappy cheap bikes that Wal-Mart or Target sells will do the trick, and (for that matter) not that many specialty shops sell longtail cargo haulers either.Anyhow -- sure, you could find a car for that price, but sometimes a car isn't practical.If you live in the city, parking is bloody expensive.
Have only one parking spot for your two-person family, and both of you have jobs?
If you ride a bike, that's not a problem.Mandatory liability insurance?
Bicycles very rarely generate substantial liability, hence such laws don't apply.
Vehicle registration fees?
In my state, those go to fund highways rather than regular roads; bicycles don't use highways, thus moot.
Gasoline? Hah.A folding bike (there are some good ones [bikefriday.com], and the custom builds tend to run in the neighborhood of or somewhat more than that $2300 watermark) will let you take public transportation for part of your commute or bring your vehicle with you when you travel by air.
You can't do that with any car.If you get a cheap used car, it'll need lots of TLC and maintenance -- and the skills and tools to do bicycle maintenance yourself are much cheaper.A bicycle in the $2-4K range can be the Right Vehicle for many people.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818244</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30828818</id>
	<title>Re:MIT's Copenhagen Wheel</title>
	<author>Jane Q. Public</author>
	<datestamp>1263927480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The Copenhagen Wheel looks intriguing, but the details are suspiciously scarce. Also, I question the real-world usefulness of a 3-speed hub, and the practical utility of having to control it via a smartphone.
<br> <br>
While regenerative braking is great to have, there was no real information about torque or wattage or other niceties which are really essential in determining its practicality in everyday use. And while in one place the site mentions getting "bigger batteries", it does not say anything about where those batteries are normally kept. They definitely are not visible in the pictures or video, but for a number of reasons the hub itself is not a very suitable place.
<br> <br>
Although there is some gearing built in (how much? how much variability do you really get with a 3-speed hub?), I am not sure that a hub motor is really an ideal solution. In order to go up a decent hill, the amount of torque a motor like that has to be able to exert is enormous. Where on the other hand, a single large sprocket could be added to an existing 10-speed (or more) bicycle wheel, on the side opposite the existing derailleur, with little difficulty, allowing a more conventional motor to be used easily. Further, a good CVT (the NuVinci is already being successfully used in comparable installations) allows a broad range of "gear ratios". I am not certain but it might even be possible to replace the whole existing derailleur system with a NuVinci CVT, thereby simplifying the whole thing. All that is needed then is a simple one-way clutch so that the motor can remain stationary when one is pedaling.
<br> <br>
It would be rather like the difference between the early hybrid automobiles, with two gearboxes, and the newer ones that just use the engine to power a generator. The whole system is simplified and lighter than having 2 different drivetrains.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The Copenhagen Wheel looks intriguing , but the details are suspiciously scarce .
Also , I question the real-world usefulness of a 3-speed hub , and the practical utility of having to control it via a smartphone .
While regenerative braking is great to have , there was no real information about torque or wattage or other niceties which are really essential in determining its practicality in everyday use .
And while in one place the site mentions getting " bigger batteries " , it does not say anything about where those batteries are normally kept .
They definitely are not visible in the pictures or video , but for a number of reasons the hub itself is not a very suitable place .
Although there is some gearing built in ( how much ?
how much variability do you really get with a 3-speed hub ?
) , I am not sure that a hub motor is really an ideal solution .
In order to go up a decent hill , the amount of torque a motor like that has to be able to exert is enormous .
Where on the other hand , a single large sprocket could be added to an existing 10-speed ( or more ) bicycle wheel , on the side opposite the existing derailleur , with little difficulty , allowing a more conventional motor to be used easily .
Further , a good CVT ( the NuVinci is already being successfully used in comparable installations ) allows a broad range of " gear ratios " .
I am not certain but it might even be possible to replace the whole existing derailleur system with a NuVinci CVT , thereby simplifying the whole thing .
All that is needed then is a simple one-way clutch so that the motor can remain stationary when one is pedaling .
It would be rather like the difference between the early hybrid automobiles , with two gearboxes , and the newer ones that just use the engine to power a generator .
The whole system is simplified and lighter than having 2 different drivetrains .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Copenhagen Wheel looks intriguing, but the details are suspiciously scarce.
Also, I question the real-world usefulness of a 3-speed hub, and the practical utility of having to control it via a smartphone.
While regenerative braking is great to have, there was no real information about torque or wattage or other niceties which are really essential in determining its practicality in everyday use.
And while in one place the site mentions getting "bigger batteries", it does not say anything about where those batteries are normally kept.
They definitely are not visible in the pictures or video, but for a number of reasons the hub itself is not a very suitable place.
Although there is some gearing built in (how much?
how much variability do you really get with a 3-speed hub?
), I am not sure that a hub motor is really an ideal solution.
In order to go up a decent hill, the amount of torque a motor like that has to be able to exert is enormous.
Where on the other hand, a single large sprocket could be added to an existing 10-speed (or more) bicycle wheel, on the side opposite the existing derailleur, with little difficulty, allowing a more conventional motor to be used easily.
Further, a good CVT (the NuVinci is already being successfully used in comparable installations) allows a broad range of "gear ratios".
I am not certain but it might even be possible to replace the whole existing derailleur system with a NuVinci CVT, thereby simplifying the whole thing.
All that is needed then is a simple one-way clutch so that the motor can remain stationary when one is pedaling.
It would be rather like the difference between the early hybrid automobiles, with two gearboxes, and the newer ones that just use the engine to power a generator.
The whole system is simplified and lighter than having 2 different drivetrains.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818238</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818242</id>
	<title>250 Watts?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263909780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Professional athletes can generate 900Watts and any healthy individual should be able to get at least half of that. Why would I want a 250 Watt motor? It would only make me weak in the process by depending on yet more technology.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Professional athletes can generate 900Watts and any healthy individual should be able to get at least half of that .
Why would I want a 250 Watt motor ?
It would only make me weak in the process by depending on yet more technology .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Professional athletes can generate 900Watts and any healthy individual should be able to get at least half of that.
Why would I want a 250 Watt motor?
It would only make me weak in the process by depending on yet more technology.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30819614</id>
	<title>Two problems with e-bikes</title>
	<author>Will.Woodhull</author>
	<datestamp>1263918600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>E-bikes are bringing a couple of new problems to bicycling.

</p><p>I live in Portland Oregon, and I put about 3,000 miles on my bike last year. I'll probably double that this year, since I'm riding through the winter for the first time since I was a kid.

</p><p>We've started to see e-bikes last summer, and two problems are emerging:
</p><ol>
<li>First, when you put a redneck on an e-bike, you don't lose the redneck. Instead you've now got rednecks on the bike paths and the bike lanes. They disrupt the courtesy and mutual cooperation between strangers that makes cycling in crowded conditions work.</li>
<li>Second, the e-bikes are being bought and used by lots of persons who have no experience with bicycling. On a pedal bike it takes a season or more for a new rider to learn the shifting, cadence, and other tricks needed to travel at speed, and during that time they are also learning how to anticipate unsafe conditions and how to get along with other cyclists, skateboarders, scooters, and pedestrians. But with the e-bikes, these persons are speeding along much faster than is safe for them or anyone around them, since they don't know what they are doing. And they are often oblivious to the fact that they are crash waiting to happen.</li>
</ol><p>So e-bikes are not without problems. There is a place for them in the grand scheme of things, but their introduction is going to be disruptive and a lot of persons are going to get hurt.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>E-bikes are bringing a couple of new problems to bicycling .
I live in Portland Oregon , and I put about 3,000 miles on my bike last year .
I 'll probably double that this year , since I 'm riding through the winter for the first time since I was a kid .
We 've started to see e-bikes last summer , and two problems are emerging : First , when you put a redneck on an e-bike , you do n't lose the redneck .
Instead you 've now got rednecks on the bike paths and the bike lanes .
They disrupt the courtesy and mutual cooperation between strangers that makes cycling in crowded conditions work .
Second , the e-bikes are being bought and used by lots of persons who have no experience with bicycling .
On a pedal bike it takes a season or more for a new rider to learn the shifting , cadence , and other tricks needed to travel at speed , and during that time they are also learning how to anticipate unsafe conditions and how to get along with other cyclists , skateboarders , scooters , and pedestrians .
But with the e-bikes , these persons are speeding along much faster than is safe for them or anyone around them , since they do n't know what they are doing .
And they are often oblivious to the fact that they are crash waiting to happen .
So e-bikes are not without problems .
There is a place for them in the grand scheme of things , but their introduction is going to be disruptive and a lot of persons are going to get hurt .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>E-bikes are bringing a couple of new problems to bicycling.
I live in Portland Oregon, and I put about 3,000 miles on my bike last year.
I'll probably double that this year, since I'm riding through the winter for the first time since I was a kid.
We've started to see e-bikes last summer, and two problems are emerging:

First, when you put a redneck on an e-bike, you don't lose the redneck.
Instead you've now got rednecks on the bike paths and the bike lanes.
They disrupt the courtesy and mutual cooperation between strangers that makes cycling in crowded conditions work.
Second, the e-bikes are being bought and used by lots of persons who have no experience with bicycling.
On a pedal bike it takes a season or more for a new rider to learn the shifting, cadence, and other tricks needed to travel at speed, and during that time they are also learning how to anticipate unsafe conditions and how to get along with other cyclists, skateboarders, scooters, and pedestrians.
But with the e-bikes, these persons are speeding along much faster than is safe for them or anyone around them, since they don't know what they are doing.
And they are often oblivious to the fact that they are crash waiting to happen.
So e-bikes are not without problems.
There is a place for them in the grand scheme of things, but their introduction is going to be disruptive and a lot of persons are going to get hurt.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817076</id>
	<title>Fugly</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263893040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That is one of the fugliest bikes I've seen. I'm a cyclist - road and MTB; there's no way in hell I'd be seen dead even *looking* at that monstrosity.<br>That will turn more people off biking than it will convert.<br>There really is no need for electric bikes - road bikes are light and fast, and reliable, most importantly.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That is one of the fugliest bikes I 've seen .
I 'm a cyclist - road and MTB ; there 's no way in hell I 'd be seen dead even * looking * at that monstrosity.That will turn more people off biking than it will convert.There really is no need for electric bikes - road bikes are light and fast , and reliable , most importantly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is one of the fugliest bikes I've seen.
I'm a cyclist - road and MTB; there's no way in hell I'd be seen dead even *looking* at that monstrosity.That will turn more people off biking than it will convert.There really is no need for electric bikes - road bikes are light and fast, and reliable, most importantly.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817040</id>
	<title>Nice electric, bad bicycle.</title>
	<author>Jane Q. Public</author>
	<datestamp>1263892560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have been watching the e-bike market for years now, and almost all of the reasonably priced products suffer from the same problem: when the battery power runs out, they are lousy bicycles. They are single-speed only, or they are outrageously heavy, or both, or have some other drawback that makes them unsuitable for pedaling any distance. A few even have pedals so far apart that you couldn't pedal them for a block comfortably.
<br> <br>
I want something I can use as a regular bicycle, with electric power I can kick in if I choose. I am fully aware that motor and battery pack are going to add significant weight. That's fine... it just burns that many more calories. But it should be a good bicycle first, and electric vehicle second. Not the other way around.
<br> <br>
By the way, for anyone considering buying an Eneloop for $2,000+, just don't. 250 watts is woefully anemic. It won't get you up an even halfway decent slope. Go for <b>at least</b> 500W or more. The battery life does not suffer as much as you might think: the motor doesn't have to work as hard to get you somewhere.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have been watching the e-bike market for years now , and almost all of the reasonably priced products suffer from the same problem : when the battery power runs out , they are lousy bicycles .
They are single-speed only , or they are outrageously heavy , or both , or have some other drawback that makes them unsuitable for pedaling any distance .
A few even have pedals so far apart that you could n't pedal them for a block comfortably .
I want something I can use as a regular bicycle , with electric power I can kick in if I choose .
I am fully aware that motor and battery pack are going to add significant weight .
That 's fine... it just burns that many more calories .
But it should be a good bicycle first , and electric vehicle second .
Not the other way around .
By the way , for anyone considering buying an Eneloop for $ 2,000 + , just do n't .
250 watts is woefully anemic .
It wo n't get you up an even halfway decent slope .
Go for at least 500W or more .
The battery life does not suffer as much as you might think : the motor does n't have to work as hard to get you somewhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have been watching the e-bike market for years now, and almost all of the reasonably priced products suffer from the same problem: when the battery power runs out, they are lousy bicycles.
They are single-speed only, or they are outrageously heavy, or both, or have some other drawback that makes them unsuitable for pedaling any distance.
A few even have pedals so far apart that you couldn't pedal them for a block comfortably.
I want something I can use as a regular bicycle, with electric power I can kick in if I choose.
I am fully aware that motor and battery pack are going to add significant weight.
That's fine... it just burns that many more calories.
But it should be a good bicycle first, and electric vehicle second.
Not the other way around.
By the way, for anyone considering buying an Eneloop for $2,000+, just don't.
250 watts is woefully anemic.
It won't get you up an even halfway decent slope.
Go for at least 500W or more.
The battery life does not suffer as much as you might think: the motor doesn't have to work as hard to get you somewhere.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816998</id>
	<title>fatties.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263892080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>my bike commute is 36 miles round trip.<br>Average speed 16-18mph.<br>Mostly hills.</p><p>I never have needed a motor.</p><p>I don't get it. Is this like... for people who are trying to get fat?</p><p>I mean. If you want to be fat, go buy a gas guzzling 82 firebird and stay dry. If yer gonna be out in the elements, at least take the opportunity to not be fat.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>my bike commute is 36 miles round trip.Average speed 16-18mph.Mostly hills.I never have needed a motor.I do n't get it .
Is this like... for people who are trying to get fat ? I mean .
If you want to be fat , go buy a gas guzzling 82 firebird and stay dry .
If yer gon na be out in the elements , at least take the opportunity to not be fat .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>my bike commute is 36 miles round trip.Average speed 16-18mph.Mostly hills.I never have needed a motor.I don't get it.
Is this like... for people who are trying to get fat?I mean.
If you want to be fat, go buy a gas guzzling 82 firebird and stay dry.
If yer gonna be out in the elements, at least take the opportunity to not be fat.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817252</id>
	<title>Re:Nice electric, bad bicycle.</title>
	<author>Calinous</author>
	<datestamp>1263895320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are conversion kits for bycicles (those contain front wheel or front wheel hub with integrated motor, battery packs, electronics, command and control systems and whatever else), and those can be adapted to any bycicle:<br><a href="http://www.greenspeed.us/bionx\_motor\_bike\_kit.htm" title="greenspeed.us">http://www.greenspeed.us/bionx\_motor\_bike\_kit.htm</a> [greenspeed.us]<br>First hit in a google link, which conveniently suggests "electric bike conversion kit" when typing "electric bike" in its search box.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; As for the higher power electric motors: 250W is enough (unassisted) for a fast walk speed on a 12\% hill - but using a bigger motor forces a stronger (heavier) battery and possibly charger. More power than that might be good, though.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; As for battery life, ignoring some extra losses due to the bigger and heavier components, if you ride in the same way, the bigger motor would use just a bit more energy (if you accelerate harder with the bigger motor, it will use more energy, though).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are conversion kits for bycicles ( those contain front wheel or front wheel hub with integrated motor , battery packs , electronics , command and control systems and whatever else ) , and those can be adapted to any bycicle : http : //www.greenspeed.us/bionx \ _motor \ _bike \ _kit.htm [ greenspeed.us ] First hit in a google link , which conveniently suggests " electric bike conversion kit " when typing " electric bike " in its search box .
      As for the higher power electric motors : 250W is enough ( unassisted ) for a fast walk speed on a 12 \ % hill - but using a bigger motor forces a stronger ( heavier ) battery and possibly charger .
More power than that might be good , though .
      As for battery life , ignoring some extra losses due to the bigger and heavier components , if you ride in the same way , the bigger motor would use just a bit more energy ( if you accelerate harder with the bigger motor , it will use more energy , though ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are conversion kits for bycicles (those contain front wheel or front wheel hub with integrated motor, battery packs, electronics, command and control systems and whatever else), and those can be adapted to any bycicle:http://www.greenspeed.us/bionx\_motor\_bike\_kit.htm [greenspeed.us]First hit in a google link, which conveniently suggests "electric bike conversion kit" when typing "electric bike" in its search box.
      As for the higher power electric motors: 250W is enough (unassisted) for a fast walk speed on a 12\% hill - but using a bigger motor forces a stronger (heavier) battery and possibly charger.
More power than that might be good, though.
      As for battery life, ignoring some extra losses due to the bigger and heavier components, if you ride in the same way, the bigger motor would use just a bit more energy (if you accelerate harder with the bigger motor, it will use more energy, though).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817040</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818022</id>
	<title>Re:best quote</title>
	<author>SoupIsGoodFood\_42</author>
	<datestamp>1263906780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why must it mean something?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why must it mean something ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why must it mean something?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816888</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30822800</id>
	<title>Re:the alternatives are 10x cheaper</title>
	<author>2short</author>
	<datestamp>1263931260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><br>"I can find a used *car* for that price."<br><br>I can confirm that, as I recently sold my car for about that much.  I spent the money on a bicycle.<br><br>While I don't think I'm an idiot, I don't really disagree with your larger point.  The bicycle in question is useless as practical transportation.  It has no racks and I wouldn't leave it locked up outside anywhere, assuming I was willing to carry a lock after paying that much for a lightweight bike.  The pair of bicycles that had already replaced the car cost maybe $500 combined.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" I can find a used * car * for that price .
" I can confirm that , as I recently sold my car for about that much .
I spent the money on a bicycle.While I do n't think I 'm an idiot , I do n't really disagree with your larger point .
The bicycle in question is useless as practical transportation .
It has no racks and I would n't leave it locked up outside anywhere , assuming I was willing to carry a lock after paying that much for a lightweight bike .
The pair of bicycles that had already replaced the car cost maybe $ 500 combined .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"I can find a used *car* for that price.
"I can confirm that, as I recently sold my car for about that much.
I spent the money on a bicycle.While I don't think I'm an idiot, I don't really disagree with your larger point.
The bicycle in question is useless as practical transportation.
It has no racks and I wouldn't leave it locked up outside anywhere, assuming I was willing to carry a lock after paying that much for a lightweight bike.
The pair of bicycles that had already replaced the car cost maybe $500 combined.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818244</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816966</id>
	<title>the alternatives are 10x cheaper</title>
	<author>societyofrobots</author>
	<datestamp>1263891780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>An brand-name electric scooter is ~$300, and much more portable.</p><p>A Honda motor scooter is under $2000, can seat two people, and go 30mph.</p><p>$2300 for an electric bike is just silly.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>An brand-name electric scooter is ~ $ 300 , and much more portable.A Honda motor scooter is under $ 2000 , can seat two people , and go 30mph. $ 2300 for an electric bike is just silly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An brand-name electric scooter is ~$300, and much more portable.A Honda motor scooter is under $2000, can seat two people, and go 30mph.$2300 for an electric bike is just silly.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818372</id>
	<title>Illegal in NY State</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263911220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In NY state , ebikes are illegal. It's dumb, but true.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In NY state , ebikes are illegal .
It 's dumb , but true .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In NY state , ebikes are illegal.
It's dumb, but true.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818362</id>
	<title>Re:These are useless as transport</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263911040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Buy a Cycleops power meter, dude.<br>Its the only way to be sure.<br>If you're really in a spending mood, get the Saris "400 Pro Indoor Cycle".<br>Upload your logs to your online coach.</p><p>You can probably put out 1600W for a 10 second effort. Then you're done for the day.</p><p>Btw, its all about power to weight ratio, so if you're 120 kilos putting out 500W isn't going to get you up that 8\% climb very fast.<br>It will get you from Martic Church to Montauk in a big hurry, though (most flat metric century I've ever seen).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Buy a Cycleops power meter , dude.Its the only way to be sure.If you 're really in a spending mood , get the Saris " 400 Pro Indoor Cycle " .Upload your logs to your online coach.You can probably put out 1600W for a 10 second effort .
Then you 're done for the day.Btw , its all about power to weight ratio , so if you 're 120 kilos putting out 500W is n't going to get you up that 8 \ % climb very fast.It will get you from Martic Church to Montauk in a big hurry , though ( most flat metric century I 've ever seen ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Buy a Cycleops power meter, dude.Its the only way to be sure.If you're really in a spending mood, get the Saris "400 Pro Indoor Cycle".Upload your logs to your online coach.You can probably put out 1600W for a 10 second effort.
Then you're done for the day.Btw, its all about power to weight ratio, so if you're 120 kilos putting out 500W isn't going to get you up that 8\% climb very fast.It will get you from Martic Church to Montauk in a big hurry, though (most flat metric century I've ever seen).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817068</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30820136</id>
	<title>Re:250 Watts?</title>
	<author>EmagGeek</author>
	<datestamp>1263920760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Professional athletes can generate 900W for a very short period of time. Typical lactose threshold for a professional cyclist is about 400 Watts, assuming they're doped up. An un-doped cyclist can generate about 325-350W sub-threshold.</p><p>Competitive non-pros (Cat 3 and up) hang around the high 200's.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Professional athletes can generate 900W for a very short period of time .
Typical lactose threshold for a professional cyclist is about 400 Watts , assuming they 're doped up .
An un-doped cyclist can generate about 325-350W sub-threshold.Competitive non-pros ( Cat 3 and up ) hang around the high 200 's .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>Professional athletes can generate 900W for a very short period of time.
Typical lactose threshold for a professional cyclist is about 400 Watts, assuming they're doped up.
An un-doped cyclist can generate about 325-350W sub-threshold.Competitive non-pros (Cat 3 and up) hang around the high 200's.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818242</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818288</id>
	<title>endless-sphere.com ebike r&amp;d forums</title>
	<author>Two99Point80</author>
	<datestamp>1263910320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Some folks there are in the multi-KW range, others commuting almost daily testing various motors and batteries.  Lots of, well, roll-your-own activity.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Some folks there are in the multi-KW range , others commuting almost daily testing various motors and batteries .
Lots of , well , roll-your-own activity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some folks there are in the multi-KW range, others commuting almost daily testing various motors and batteries.
Lots of, well, roll-your-own activity.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817072</id>
	<title>or just bike...</title>
	<author>pr100</author>
	<datestamp>1263893040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I suppose an "e-bike" might appeal to some couch potatoes, but a good part of the point of cycling is that you actually get some exercise.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I suppose an " e-bike " might appeal to some couch potatoes , but a good part of the point of cycling is that you actually get some exercise .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I suppose an "e-bike" might appeal to some couch potatoes, but a good part of the point of cycling is that you actually get some exercise.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30820252</id>
	<title>Re:Laziness! Now in disguise!</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1263921180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not everyone is a fatass; I have trouble keeping weight on. The point of bicycling isn't excersize, it's transportation. Riding an ebike instead of a car saves money and reduces your carbon footprint.</p><p>I walk to work when the weather permits, an ebike wouldn't help in my case. But If I worked farther away from home it would save money. I walk to the bar, too, an ebike wouldn't do any good there. You can get a DUI on a bicycle as easily as in a car.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not everyone is a fatass ; I have trouble keeping weight on .
The point of bicycling is n't excersize , it 's transportation .
Riding an ebike instead of a car saves money and reduces your carbon footprint.I walk to work when the weather permits , an ebike would n't help in my case .
But If I worked farther away from home it would save money .
I walk to the bar , too , an ebike would n't do any good there .
You can get a DUI on a bicycle as easily as in a car .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not everyone is a fatass; I have trouble keeping weight on.
The point of bicycling isn't excersize, it's transportation.
Riding an ebike instead of a car saves money and reduces your carbon footprint.I walk to work when the weather permits, an ebike wouldn't help in my case.
But If I worked farther away from home it would save money.
I walk to the bar, too, an ebike wouldn't do any good there.
You can get a DUI on a bicycle as easily as in a car.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816906</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818464</id>
	<title>Re:Great, still doesn't fix the Houston problem.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263912120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Do you really have problems with people throwing beer bottles at you?</p></div><p>I have in upstate NY.</p><p>Frankly, most serious bicyclists have a bunch of stories like that.  I've put many miles in the north-east, the mid-atlantic states, the west coast, the southwest, and now the midwest.  I now ride in the country in Indiana (boring corn viewing experience), and it's a lot better from a politeness of drivers standpoint.</p><p>But in the USA, the car vs. driver issues are way worse than the UK and Ireland in my experience.  Just another issue where we think we are #1 and really we suck.</p><p>Sheldon</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you really have problems with people throwing beer bottles at you ? I have in upstate NY.Frankly , most serious bicyclists have a bunch of stories like that .
I 've put many miles in the north-east , the mid-atlantic states , the west coast , the southwest , and now the midwest .
I now ride in the country in Indiana ( boring corn viewing experience ) , and it 's a lot better from a politeness of drivers standpoint.But in the USA , the car vs. driver issues are way worse than the UK and Ireland in my experience .
Just another issue where we think we are # 1 and really we suck.Sheldon</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you really have problems with people throwing beer bottles at you?I have in upstate NY.Frankly, most serious bicyclists have a bunch of stories like that.
I've put many miles in the north-east, the mid-atlantic states, the west coast, the southwest, and now the midwest.
I now ride in the country in Indiana (boring corn viewing experience), and it's a lot better from a politeness of drivers standpoint.But in the USA, the car vs. driver issues are way worse than the UK and Ireland in my experience.
Just another issue where we think we are #1 and really we suck.Sheldon
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816908</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817470</id>
	<title>Worried about  battery explosions</title>
	<author>Stephen Samuel</author>
	<datestamp>1263898320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have a friend who does destructive testing of Lithium Ion batteries --- apparently the engineers get freaked out when a pierced battery <b>doesn't</b> explode.  The thought of a fragile battery like that, big enough to provide decent range, that close to my body gives me the willies.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a friend who does destructive testing of Lithium Ion batteries --- apparently the engineers get freaked out when a pierced battery does n't explode .
The thought of a fragile battery like that , big enough to provide decent range , that close to my body gives me the willies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a friend who does destructive testing of Lithium Ion batteries --- apparently the engineers get freaked out when a pierced battery doesn't explode.
The thought of a fragile battery like that, big enough to provide decent range, that close to my body gives me the willies.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30820084</id>
	<title>Re:These are useless as transport</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263920520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are reading the kcal per hour value.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are reading the kcal per hour value .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are reading the kcal per hour value.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817068</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818208</id>
	<title>Why is this news?</title>
	<author>tsa</author>
	<datestamp>1263909240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't get it. We've had these things in the Netherlands for years now. Before the electric verions became en vogue, we had them with tiny petrol engines fitted that powered the rear wheel. The electric ones are much better because they don't pollute their surroundings with noise and gases.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't get it .
We 've had these things in the Netherlands for years now .
Before the electric verions became en vogue , we had them with tiny petrol engines fitted that powered the rear wheel .
The electric ones are much better because they do n't pollute their surroundings with noise and gases .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't get it.
We've had these things in the Netherlands for years now.
Before the electric verions became en vogue, we had them with tiny petrol engines fitted that powered the rear wheel.
The electric ones are much better because they don't pollute their surroundings with noise and gases.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816908</id>
	<title>Re:Great, still doesn't fix the Houston problem.</title>
	<author>phantomfive</author>
	<datestamp>1263934200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Do you really have problems with people throwing beer bottles at you?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you really have problems with people throwing beer bottles at you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you really have problems with people throwing beer bottles at you?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816860</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30819264</id>
	<title>Re:What's the point?</title>
	<author>natehoy</author>
	<datestamp>1263916920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This isn't for long tours any more than an electric-only car is for long tours.  Something like this is designed for commuters who are looking at daily rides of 30-50 miles, I suspect.</p><p>I have a 30-mile roundtrip that is largely hilly, so my commute is about an hour each way, or two hours a day.  Even after I've commuted on the ride all summer, I can only maintain about 17mph average speed given the terrain.  With a family at home, choosing between 40 minutes a day in the car and 120 minutes a day on the cycle is tough.  If I could increase my speed to the point where I'm completing each way in 45 minutes (which would be about 20mph) I'd be happy.  If I could sustain 25mph on average, I'd be thrilled.</p><p>I've also got a couple of uphills with no breakdown lane and an uphill blind curve.  Pumping up those at 8mph is just dangerous, because cars close on me at 50-55mph and don't seem me until they are 30-40 feet behind me.  Every little bit of speed I can maintain up those spots means more reaction time for the cars coming around the curve, and less likelihood they'll get impatient and go around me with oncoming traffic.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is n't for long tours any more than an electric-only car is for long tours .
Something like this is designed for commuters who are looking at daily rides of 30-50 miles , I suspect.I have a 30-mile roundtrip that is largely hilly , so my commute is about an hour each way , or two hours a day .
Even after I 've commuted on the ride all summer , I can only maintain about 17mph average speed given the terrain .
With a family at home , choosing between 40 minutes a day in the car and 120 minutes a day on the cycle is tough .
If I could increase my speed to the point where I 'm completing each way in 45 minutes ( which would be about 20mph ) I 'd be happy .
If I could sustain 25mph on average , I 'd be thrilled.I 've also got a couple of uphills with no breakdown lane and an uphill blind curve .
Pumping up those at 8mph is just dangerous , because cars close on me at 50-55mph and do n't seem me until they are 30-40 feet behind me .
Every little bit of speed I can maintain up those spots means more reaction time for the cars coming around the curve , and less likelihood they 'll get impatient and go around me with oncoming traffic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This isn't for long tours any more than an electric-only car is for long tours.
Something like this is designed for commuters who are looking at daily rides of 30-50 miles, I suspect.I have a 30-mile roundtrip that is largely hilly, so my commute is about an hour each way, or two hours a day.
Even after I've commuted on the ride all summer, I can only maintain about 17mph average speed given the terrain.
With a family at home, choosing between 40 minutes a day in the car and 120 minutes a day on the cycle is tough.
If I could increase my speed to the point where I'm completing each way in 45 minutes (which would be about 20mph) I'd be happy.
If I could sustain 25mph on average, I'd be thrilled.I've also got a couple of uphills with no breakdown lane and an uphill blind curve.
Pumping up those at 8mph is just dangerous, because cars close on me at 50-55mph and don't seem me until they are 30-40 feet behind me.
Every little bit of speed I can maintain up those spots means more reaction time for the cars coming around the curve, and less likelihood they'll get impatient and go around me with oncoming traffic.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816956</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30819426</id>
	<title>Not new; not needed.</title>
	<author>MrCrassic</author>
	<datestamp>1263917820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are a few things here that might be problematic:</p><ul><li>It's $2,300 for a <b>cruiser bike.</b> With that amount of money, one could buy a much nicer looking road or mountain bike or just save it for transportation costs, since it may not save them that much.</li><li>The cheaper models have to worry about being really, REALLY heavy.</li><li>A lot of folks buying bicycles are thinking of  the price points being at Wal-Mart prices, and is part of the reason why a lot of people just buy used bikes on Craigslist (at least here in NYC, which is a bike commuter-heavy city).</li></ul><p>These bikes are not new, though I haven't seen a lot of bike shops push these. They are super fun to pace though; 450W on a flat road means a pretty high pace to follow...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are a few things here that might be problematic : It 's $ 2,300 for a cruiser bike .
With that amount of money , one could buy a much nicer looking road or mountain bike or just save it for transportation costs , since it may not save them that much.The cheaper models have to worry about being really , REALLY heavy.A lot of folks buying bicycles are thinking of the price points being at Wal-Mart prices , and is part of the reason why a lot of people just buy used bikes on Craigslist ( at least here in NYC , which is a bike commuter-heavy city ) .These bikes are not new , though I have n't seen a lot of bike shops push these .
They are super fun to pace though ; 450W on a flat road means a pretty high pace to follow... : - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are a few things here that might be problematic:It's $2,300 for a cruiser bike.
With that amount of money, one could buy a much nicer looking road or mountain bike or just save it for transportation costs, since it may not save them that much.The cheaper models have to worry about being really, REALLY heavy.A lot of folks buying bicycles are thinking of  the price points being at Wal-Mart prices, and is part of the reason why a lot of people just buy used bikes on Craigslist (at least here in NYC, which is a bike commuter-heavy city).These bikes are not new, though I haven't seen a lot of bike shops push these.
They are super fun to pace though; 450W on a flat road means a pretty high pace to follow... :-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817728</id>
	<title>Eh-Bikes</title>
	<author>FatherDale</author>
	<datestamp>1263902640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As an auto-obsessed American, I'd just like to say "So?"</htmltext>
<tokenext>As an auto-obsessed American , I 'd just like to say " So ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As an auto-obsessed American, I'd just like to say "So?
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817116</id>
	<title>Re:best quote</title>
	<author>Calinous</author>
	<datestamp>1263893580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The ebike thing is perfect when you have some steep hills on the way - instead of chugging along at a walking pace and getting to the top all sweaty, you let the electric motor work, go faster and aren't tired and sweaty at the end.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Also, the assist from the electric motor allows you to go faster and farther, so you're able to use it in more cases than usual. You can also carry more weight (shopping trip) without effort.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The ebike thing is perfect when you have some steep hills on the way - instead of chugging along at a walking pace and getting to the top all sweaty , you let the electric motor work , go faster and are n't tired and sweaty at the end .
      Also , the assist from the electric motor allows you to go faster and farther , so you 're able to use it in more cases than usual .
You can also carry more weight ( shopping trip ) without effort .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The ebike thing is perfect when you have some steep hills on the way - instead of chugging along at a walking pace and getting to the top all sweaty, you let the electric motor work, go faster and aren't tired and sweaty at the end.
      Also, the assist from the electric motor allows you to go faster and farther, so you're able to use it in more cases than usual.
You can also carry more weight (shopping trip) without effort.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816888</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817074</id>
	<title>Easy solution.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263893040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just hike the tail of the bike up, like hot rods do. That way you're always going downhill!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just hike the tail of the bike up , like hot rods do .
That way you 're always going downhill !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just hike the tail of the bike up, like hot rods do.
That way you're always going downhill!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816956</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816888</id>
	<title>best quote</title>
	<author>phantomfive</author>
	<datestamp>1263934080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm pretty skeptical about the ebike thing, I'm sure some people will find a use for it, but this quote from the article was eye-opening about cultural differences:<p><div class="quote"><p>In China, riding an electric bike conveys professional achievement, even a certain degree of wealth. People in the United States, said Ed Benjamin, an independent consultant in the bike business, don't quite know whether these bikes are fashionable. The e-bike is "an ambiguous statement," Mr. Benjamin said.</p></div><p>I'm not entirely sure what the cultural significance of that is, but it must mean something.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm pretty skeptical about the ebike thing , I 'm sure some people will find a use for it , but this quote from the article was eye-opening about cultural differences : In China , riding an electric bike conveys professional achievement , even a certain degree of wealth .
People in the United States , said Ed Benjamin , an independent consultant in the bike business , do n't quite know whether these bikes are fashionable .
The e-bike is " an ambiguous statement , " Mr. Benjamin said.I 'm not entirely sure what the cultural significance of that is , but it must mean something .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm pretty skeptical about the ebike thing, I'm sure some people will find a use for it, but this quote from the article was eye-opening about cultural differences:In China, riding an electric bike conveys professional achievement, even a certain degree of wealth.
People in the United States, said Ed Benjamin, an independent consultant in the bike business, don't quite know whether these bikes are fashionable.
The e-bike is "an ambiguous statement," Mr. Benjamin said.I'm not entirely sure what the cultural significance of that is, but it must mean something.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816950</id>
	<title>Re:Laziness! Now in disguise!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263934680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What the hell? A bicycle is firstly a cheap means of transport, and secondly a way to exercise while you get from point A to point B. This has just made the bicycle more economical. I'm sure that the people who need exercise would not bitch about not losing calories while cycling. It'd be like bitching that walking doesn't make you any fitter.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What the hell ?
A bicycle is firstly a cheap means of transport , and secondly a way to exercise while you get from point A to point B. This has just made the bicycle more economical .
I 'm sure that the people who need exercise would not bitch about not losing calories while cycling .
It 'd be like bitching that walking does n't make you any fitter .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What the hell?
A bicycle is firstly a cheap means of transport, and secondly a way to exercise while you get from point A to point B. This has just made the bicycle more economical.
I'm sure that the people who need exercise would not bitch about not losing calories while cycling.
It'd be like bitching that walking doesn't make you any fitter.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816906</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817096</id>
	<title>Re:These are useless as transport</title>
	<author>Jane Q. Public</author>
	<datestamp>1263893280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>An electric bike with only a 250-watt motor (the Eneloop) will not go up any mountain, much less Ventoux.</htmltext>
<tokenext>An electric bike with only a 250-watt motor ( the Eneloop ) will not go up any mountain , much less Ventoux .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An electric bike with only a 250-watt motor (the Eneloop) will not go up any mountain, much less Ventoux.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816982</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818348</id>
	<title>Re:the alternatives are 10x cheaper</title>
	<author>dargaud</author>
	<datestamp>1263910860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>But an electric scooter is not allowed on bike paths, which in my town saves a LOT of time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>But an electric scooter is not allowed on bike paths , which in my town saves a LOT of time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But an electric scooter is not allowed on bike paths, which in my town saves a LOT of time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816966</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30820158</id>
	<title>Re:Fugly</title>
	<author>noahisaac</author>
	<datestamp>1263920820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I always hate those posts on car sites when a new electric car is introduced that say the thing is ugly.  That's really not the point.  It's supposed to be about the new energy technology.

However, in this case, I have to agree with you.  What is the point of the odd styling?  That thing is hideous.  Why didn't they just make it look like normal bike?  What's with the women's-style frame?  I'm pretty sure that the largest market for this kind of thing will be younger males.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I always hate those posts on car sites when a new electric car is introduced that say the thing is ugly .
That 's really not the point .
It 's supposed to be about the new energy technology .
However , in this case , I have to agree with you .
What is the point of the odd styling ?
That thing is hideous .
Why did n't they just make it look like normal bike ?
What 's with the women 's-style frame ?
I 'm pretty sure that the largest market for this kind of thing will be younger males .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I always hate those posts on car sites when a new electric car is introduced that say the thing is ugly.
That's really not the point.
It's supposed to be about the new energy technology.
However, in this case, I have to agree with you.
What is the point of the odd styling?
That thing is hideous.
Why didn't they just make it look like normal bike?
What's with the women's-style frame?
I'm pretty sure that the largest market for this kind of thing will be younger males.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817358</id>
	<title>no one perfect transport for everyone</title>
	<author>Tumbleweed</author>
	<datestamp>1263896760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I live within a 4 block radius of both work and my preferred food jobber. While I can hoof it to both easily, when I want to run errands (like picking something up at UPS during lunch), this would be a great alternative to driving my car just to run a few errands during lunch. The $500 model mentioned seems a pretty good investment for me, for my situation. This may not be able to be your main method of transport, but it may work well for those small trips other than a daily commute, depending on your situation. I just need to figure out where the hell I'd park the thing at work. Hmm...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I live within a 4 block radius of both work and my preferred food jobber .
While I can hoof it to both easily , when I want to run errands ( like picking something up at UPS during lunch ) , this would be a great alternative to driving my car just to run a few errands during lunch .
The $ 500 model mentioned seems a pretty good investment for me , for my situation .
This may not be able to be your main method of transport , but it may work well for those small trips other than a daily commute , depending on your situation .
I just need to figure out where the hell I 'd park the thing at work .
Hmm.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I live within a 4 block radius of both work and my preferred food jobber.
While I can hoof it to both easily, when I want to run errands (like picking something up at UPS during lunch), this would be a great alternative to driving my car just to run a few errands during lunch.
The $500 model mentioned seems a pretty good investment for me, for my situation.
This may not be able to be your main method of transport, but it may work well for those small trips other than a daily commute, depending on your situation.
I just need to figure out where the hell I'd park the thing at work.
Hmm...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30819458</id>
	<title>Re:These are useless as transport</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263918000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>500 watts during 30s means that you can make 50 kg climb 1 m/s during 30 seconds....Or, being about 80 kg, climb about 20 m in 30 seconds or less. 6 floors in 30 seconds, I guess most reasonably fit peoples can do that....even me, not so fit and closer to 40<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p><p>36 floors in 3 minutes (hockey players), out of my league...But, having played inline hockey, typical action more like 1 kW during 5 seconds...</p><p>Speaking of Armstrong, he would climb the Burj tower in 20 minutes...Impressive<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>500 watts during 30s means that you can make 50 kg climb 1 m/s during 30 seconds....Or , being about 80 kg , climb about 20 m in 30 seconds or less .
6 floors in 30 seconds , I guess most reasonably fit peoples can do that....even me , not so fit and closer to 40 ; - ) 36 floors in 3 minutes ( hockey players ) , out of my league...But , having played inline hockey , typical action more like 1 kW during 5 seconds...Speaking of Armstrong , he would climb the Burj tower in 20 minutes...Impressive : - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>500 watts during 30s means that you can make 50 kg climb 1 m/s during 30 seconds....Or, being about 80 kg, climb about 20 m in 30 seconds or less.
6 floors in 30 seconds, I guess most reasonably fit peoples can do that....even me, not so fit and closer to 40 ;-)36 floors in 3 minutes (hockey players), out of my league...But, having played inline hockey, typical action more like 1 kW during 5 seconds...Speaking of Armstrong, he would climb the Burj tower in 20 minutes...Impressive :-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817210</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817480</id>
	<title>Re:Twice the power?</title>
	<author>Jane Q. Public</author>
	<datestamp>1263898560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Keep in mind also that 250W is power consumption, not power output. That in itself makes up for some of the difference. You would not be able to sustain 250W output if you took in 250W worth of calories input; these are the inevitable losses in the respective machines.
<br> <br>
And you also have to keep in mind that you are talking about putting out those watts with an efficient, appropriately-geared drive train. While a modern electric motor may have good starting torque, still it has a power curve just like any other power source. Most electrics use no gears, so that 250W will be used very inefficiently in some circumstances. In my experience, most have been designed to operate mostly on flat ground, and come up seriously short when it comes to slopes.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Keep in mind also that 250W is power consumption , not power output .
That in itself makes up for some of the difference .
You would not be able to sustain 250W output if you took in 250W worth of calories input ; these are the inevitable losses in the respective machines .
And you also have to keep in mind that you are talking about putting out those watts with an efficient , appropriately-geared drive train .
While a modern electric motor may have good starting torque , still it has a power curve just like any other power source .
Most electrics use no gears , so that 250W will be used very inefficiently in some circumstances .
In my experience , most have been designed to operate mostly on flat ground , and come up seriously short when it comes to slopes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Keep in mind also that 250W is power consumption, not power output.
That in itself makes up for some of the difference.
You would not be able to sustain 250W output if you took in 250W worth of calories input; these are the inevitable losses in the respective machines.
And you also have to keep in mind that you are talking about putting out those watts with an efficient, appropriately-geared drive train.
While a modern electric motor may have good starting torque, still it has a power curve just like any other power source.
Most electrics use no gears, so that 250W will be used very inefficiently in some circumstances.
In my experience, most have been designed to operate mostly on flat ground, and come up seriously short when it comes to slopes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817054</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816860</id>
	<title>Great, still doesn't fix the Houston problem.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263933720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I love the idea of using one of these bikes for my daily commute to work and back, however they don't come anywhere close to solving the beer bottles from pickups aimed at cyclist problem, or the Houston has no safe way to ride a bike much of anywhere problem.</p><p>I love to ride my bike, but Houston is a city built by politicians with pockets lined from oil companies.  The oil companies decided people in Houston should drive individual cars to get around and dammit, the politicians not only saw that it happened, they made sure the public transit system sucked as well.  Sure there's a great bus to get downtown and back, but you still have to drive locally to the bus stop, even if it's only a mile or two away unless you want to become road pizza.  Then it's only to downtown, not across town.  You can go around your area, you can go downtown, but getting from one area of Houston to another isn't easy, and unlike Phoenix and certain other cities putting a bike on a bus is hit and miss.  Some drivers forbid it if they don't have a bike rack and bike racks are rare.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I love the idea of using one of these bikes for my daily commute to work and back , however they do n't come anywhere close to solving the beer bottles from pickups aimed at cyclist problem , or the Houston has no safe way to ride a bike much of anywhere problem.I love to ride my bike , but Houston is a city built by politicians with pockets lined from oil companies .
The oil companies decided people in Houston should drive individual cars to get around and dammit , the politicians not only saw that it happened , they made sure the public transit system sucked as well .
Sure there 's a great bus to get downtown and back , but you still have to drive locally to the bus stop , even if it 's only a mile or two away unless you want to become road pizza .
Then it 's only to downtown , not across town .
You can go around your area , you can go downtown , but getting from one area of Houston to another is n't easy , and unlike Phoenix and certain other cities putting a bike on a bus is hit and miss .
Some drivers forbid it if they do n't have a bike rack and bike racks are rare .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I love the idea of using one of these bikes for my daily commute to work and back, however they don't come anywhere close to solving the beer bottles from pickups aimed at cyclist problem, or the Houston has no safe way to ride a bike much of anywhere problem.I love to ride my bike, but Houston is a city built by politicians with pockets lined from oil companies.
The oil companies decided people in Houston should drive individual cars to get around and dammit, the politicians not only saw that it happened, they made sure the public transit system sucked as well.
Sure there's a great bus to get downtown and back, but you still have to drive locally to the bus stop, even if it's only a mile or two away unless you want to become road pizza.
Then it's only to downtown, not across town.
You can go around your area, you can go downtown, but getting from one area of Houston to another isn't easy, and unlike Phoenix and certain other cities putting a bike on a bus is hit and miss.
Some drivers forbid it if they don't have a bike rack and bike racks are rare.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30820288</id>
	<title>Re:best quote</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263921300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not a cultural difference.</p><p>In China, bike -&gt; e-bike.  In United States, auto -&gt; e-bike.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not a cultural difference.In China , bike - &gt; e-bike .
In United States , auto - &gt; e-bike .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not a cultural difference.In China, bike -&gt; e-bike.
In United States, auto -&gt; e-bike.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816888</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818304</id>
	<title>Why not air?</title>
	<author>Baldrson</author>
	<datestamp>1263910440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why not an air hybrid for bicycles?  The conversion efficiency of mechanical to air and air to mechanical is quite a bit higher than the conversion efficiency of mechanical to chemical and chemical to mechanical.  Moreover, it seems that with a carbon fiber tank you don't have as much weight as with the battery.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why not an air hybrid for bicycles ?
The conversion efficiency of mechanical to air and air to mechanical is quite a bit higher than the conversion efficiency of mechanical to chemical and chemical to mechanical .
Moreover , it seems that with a carbon fiber tank you do n't have as much weight as with the battery .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why not an air hybrid for bicycles?
The conversion efficiency of mechanical to air and air to mechanical is quite a bit higher than the conversion efficiency of mechanical to chemical and chemical to mechanical.
Moreover, it seems that with a carbon fiber tank you don't have as much weight as with the battery.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817424</id>
	<title>Re:Fugly</title>
	<author>Jane Q. Public</author>
	<datestamp>1263897600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not only is it ugly, but I question the engineering.
<br> <br>
I have heard/seen/read all about modern materials and engineering, and I still have a problem with wheels that are supported on only one side. Inevitably, the damn thing is going to succumb to forces and the wheel will be skewed off vertical. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. I'll pass, thanks.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not only is it ugly , but I question the engineering .
I have heard/seen/read all about modern materials and engineering , and I still have a problem with wheels that are supported on only one side .
Inevitably , the damn thing is going to succumb to forces and the wheel will be skewed off vertical .
It 's not a matter of if , it 's a matter of when .
I 'll pass , thanks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not only is it ugly, but I question the engineering.
I have heard/seen/read all about modern materials and engineering, and I still have a problem with wheels that are supported on only one side.
Inevitably, the damn thing is going to succumb to forces and the wheel will be skewed off vertical.
It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.
I'll pass, thanks.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817164</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816982</id>
	<title>Re:These are useless as transport</title>
	<author>GAB\_cyclist</author>
	<datestamp>1263891900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>That, in fact is not the problem. The e-bikes perform quite well on steep climbs and recharge a bit on the way down. The test has been done on the Mont Ventoux without problems. I do have concerns on how long it takes for the battery to lose it's full power capability. Six months? A year, maybe? And what will be the price of a new battery?</htmltext>
<tokenext>That , in fact is not the problem .
The e-bikes perform quite well on steep climbs and recharge a bit on the way down .
The test has been done on the Mont Ventoux without problems .
I do have concerns on how long it takes for the battery to lose it 's full power capability .
Six months ?
A year , maybe ?
And what will be the price of a new battery ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That, in fact is not the problem.
The e-bikes perform quite well on steep climbs and recharge a bit on the way down.
The test has been done on the Mont Ventoux without problems.
I do have concerns on how long it takes for the battery to lose it's full power capability.
Six months?
A year, maybe?
And what will be the price of a new battery?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816912</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818472</id>
	<title>Electric bike is an electric motorbike</title>
	<author>dindi</author>
	<datestamp>1263912180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am searching for a light (preferably less or around 80kgs) electric dirt bike for some time, but battery time still prevents decent length enduro rides.</p><p>The leader at the moment seems to be :<br>http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/  - on the dirt bike 2 hour/64 kilometers (almost double on the street version) with 2 and 4 hours to charge.</p><p>Then there is Quantiya<br>http://quantya.com/ - similar to zero, seems sturdier, less bicycle like.</p><p>An interesting hybrid is the Stealth:<br>http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/ - looks more like a downhill bike (it is) with a motor. It has pedals, so you can trick police into thinking that this is only a bicycle (it is).</p><p>At the point only Zero has a decent site with shopping cart and an easy way to orde one.</p><p>Also worth to note, that KTM (best enduro/offroad bikes currently) is planning an electric bike:<br>http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2008/10/ktm-presents-electric-enduro.html<br>This is a little like the Apple tablets, with all the sites showing the same few pictures, but they seem definitely authentic, however no news on the rumored 2010 mass production.</p><p>Well, just my 2 cents on the topic. All I want now is a bike that can deliver 60-80 kilometers and can take rough enduro riding. Unfortunately most owners say that with hill climbs, aggressive riding or on a MX track, even the zeros empty a battery in half an hour. While 2 hours and 60 kilometers sound like a nice after work ride (I actually go 3-5:30  2-3 times a week after work, and usually put 60-80 kilometers of trails/road into my KTM 450 or my 300), but half an hour is completely unacceptable, as these bikes do not have pedals to get back to the truck or home after your batteries die (except the Stealth, but it is too bicycle like for what I do.)</p><p>Hope this sheds some light on the offroad segment of the electric market!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am searching for a light ( preferably less or around 80kgs ) electric dirt bike for some time , but battery time still prevents decent length enduro rides.The leader at the moment seems to be : http : //www.zeromotorcycles.com/ - on the dirt bike 2 hour/64 kilometers ( almost double on the street version ) with 2 and 4 hours to charge.Then there is Quantiyahttp : //quantya.com/ - similar to zero , seems sturdier , less bicycle like.An interesting hybrid is the Stealth : http : //www.zeromotorcycles.com/ - looks more like a downhill bike ( it is ) with a motor .
It has pedals , so you can trick police into thinking that this is only a bicycle ( it is ) .At the point only Zero has a decent site with shopping cart and an easy way to orde one.Also worth to note , that KTM ( best enduro/offroad bikes currently ) is planning an electric bike : http : //hellforleathermagazine.com/2008/10/ktm-presents-electric-enduro.htmlThis is a little like the Apple tablets , with all the sites showing the same few pictures , but they seem definitely authentic , however no news on the rumored 2010 mass production.Well , just my 2 cents on the topic .
All I want now is a bike that can deliver 60-80 kilometers and can take rough enduro riding .
Unfortunately most owners say that with hill climbs , aggressive riding or on a MX track , even the zeros empty a battery in half an hour .
While 2 hours and 60 kilometers sound like a nice after work ride ( I actually go 3-5 : 30 2-3 times a week after work , and usually put 60-80 kilometers of trails/road into my KTM 450 or my 300 ) , but half an hour is completely unacceptable , as these bikes do not have pedals to get back to the truck or home after your batteries die ( except the Stealth , but it is too bicycle like for what I do .
) Hope this sheds some light on the offroad segment of the electric market !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am searching for a light (preferably less or around 80kgs) electric dirt bike for some time, but battery time still prevents decent length enduro rides.The leader at the moment seems to be :http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/  - on the dirt bike 2 hour/64 kilometers (almost double on the street version) with 2 and 4 hours to charge.Then there is Quantiyahttp://quantya.com/ - similar to zero, seems sturdier, less bicycle like.An interesting hybrid is the Stealth:http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/ - looks more like a downhill bike (it is) with a motor.
It has pedals, so you can trick police into thinking that this is only a bicycle (it is).At the point only Zero has a decent site with shopping cart and an easy way to orde one.Also worth to note, that KTM (best enduro/offroad bikes currently) is planning an electric bike:http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2008/10/ktm-presents-electric-enduro.htmlThis is a little like the Apple tablets, with all the sites showing the same few pictures, but they seem definitely authentic, however no news on the rumored 2010 mass production.Well, just my 2 cents on the topic.
All I want now is a bike that can deliver 60-80 kilometers and can take rough enduro riding.
Unfortunately most owners say that with hill climbs, aggressive riding or on a MX track, even the zeros empty a battery in half an hour.
While 2 hours and 60 kilometers sound like a nice after work ride (I actually go 3-5:30  2-3 times a week after work, and usually put 60-80 kilometers of trails/road into my KTM 450 or my 300), but half an hour is completely unacceptable, as these bikes do not have pedals to get back to the truck or home after your batteries die (except the Stealth, but it is too bicycle like for what I do.
)Hope this sheds some light on the offroad segment of the electric market!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817060</id>
	<title>Re:Laziness! Now in disguise!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263892740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not all ebikes are built alike.</p><p>I ride a mid-drive bike. The motor (built into the bottom bracket) is optimized to work with a rider pedaling with a cadence in the 85-90 range, and the bike just doesn't feel right unless you're working along with it. Indeed, one proponent of a competing product has made a point online of calling us "Optibike huffers", referring (I presume) to our tendency to be getting enough of a workout to be panting at the end of a ride. (My commutes are fast, and fun... but not by any means sweat-free; thankfully, work has showers).</p><p>My heart rate is regularly in the 150-170 range for about 90 minutes a day while I'm riding -- which is pretty much where it <i>should</i> be for the kind of exercise I'm trying to get -- and the regime has my employer's health coach downright thrilled with my weight loss, lowered cholesterol, lowered resting heart rate, etc.</p><p>So -- enough of the stereotyping, 'kay?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not all ebikes are built alike.I ride a mid-drive bike .
The motor ( built into the bottom bracket ) is optimized to work with a rider pedaling with a cadence in the 85-90 range , and the bike just does n't feel right unless you 're working along with it .
Indeed , one proponent of a competing product has made a point online of calling us " Optibike huffers " , referring ( I presume ) to our tendency to be getting enough of a workout to be panting at the end of a ride .
( My commutes are fast , and fun... but not by any means sweat-free ; thankfully , work has showers ) .My heart rate is regularly in the 150-170 range for about 90 minutes a day while I 'm riding -- which is pretty much where it should be for the kind of exercise I 'm trying to get -- and the regime has my employer 's health coach downright thrilled with my weight loss , lowered cholesterol , lowered resting heart rate , etc.So -- enough of the stereotyping , 'kay ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not all ebikes are built alike.I ride a mid-drive bike.
The motor (built into the bottom bracket) is optimized to work with a rider pedaling with a cadence in the 85-90 range, and the bike just doesn't feel right unless you're working along with it.
Indeed, one proponent of a competing product has made a point online of calling us "Optibike huffers", referring (I presume) to our tendency to be getting enough of a workout to be panting at the end of a ride.
(My commutes are fast, and fun... but not by any means sweat-free; thankfully, work has showers).My heart rate is regularly in the 150-170 range for about 90 minutes a day while I'm riding -- which is pretty much where it should be for the kind of exercise I'm trying to get -- and the regime has my employer's health coach downright thrilled with my weight loss, lowered cholesterol, lowered resting heart rate, etc.So -- enough of the stereotyping, 'kay?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816906</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816906</id>
	<title>Laziness! Now in disguise!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263934200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, this will mean people will sit on their assess, riding the electric bike and go "oh, that was some good exercise, now I can eat a tub of chocolate ice-cream since I burned all those calories". Then they bitch everywhere that they can't lose weight no matte rhow much they exercise.</p><p>Not that I'm against electric bikes, that would make a 15km trip to work enjoyable, without too much sweat on the way there. But I fear laziness will win for most people. </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , this will mean people will sit on their assess , riding the electric bike and go " oh , that was some good exercise , now I can eat a tub of chocolate ice-cream since I burned all those calories " .
Then they bitch everywhere that they ca n't lose weight no matte rhow much they exercise.Not that I 'm against electric bikes , that would make a 15km trip to work enjoyable , without too much sweat on the way there .
But I fear laziness will win for most people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, this will mean people will sit on their assess, riding the electric bike and go "oh, that was some good exercise, now I can eat a tub of chocolate ice-cream since I burned all those calories".
Then they bitch everywhere that they can't lose weight no matte rhow much they exercise.Not that I'm against electric bikes, that would make a 15km trip to work enjoyable, without too much sweat on the way there.
But I fear laziness will win for most people. </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30820308</id>
	<title>Re:Twice the power?</title>
	<author>Locklin</author>
	<datestamp>1263921420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>These bikes commonly allow the rider to do around 20mph more-or-less consistently, without slowing much on hills or going much faster on descents.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>These bikes commonly allow the rider to do around 20mph more-or-less consistently , without slowing much on hills or going much faster on descents .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>These bikes commonly allow the rider to do around 20mph more-or-less consistently, without slowing much on hills or going much faster on descents.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817054</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816972</id>
	<title>$99,800 Yen in Japan.  Why so expensive here?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263891780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>99,800 / 90 Yen/Dollar = ~$1100</p><p>Why is it double the price in the US?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>99,800 / 90 Yen/Dollar = ~ $ 1100Why is it double the price in the US ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>99,800 / 90 Yen/Dollar = ~$1100Why is it double the price in the US?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816912</id>
	<title>These are useless as transport</title>
	<author>heffrey</author>
	<datestamp>1263934200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Surely humans can produce well in excess of 250W. The problem with these things is poor handling due to battery weight and their inability to go uphill again down to weight. Once the hill is steep enough it's harder than without battery assistance! Wouldn't want to ride one of these in San Francisco!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Surely humans can produce well in excess of 250W .
The problem with these things is poor handling due to battery weight and their inability to go uphill again down to weight .
Once the hill is steep enough it 's harder than without battery assistance !
Would n't want to ride one of these in San Francisco !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Surely humans can produce well in excess of 250W.
The problem with these things is poor handling due to battery weight and their inability to go uphill again down to weight.
Once the hill is steep enough it's harder than without battery assistance!
Wouldn't want to ride one of these in San Francisco!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817012</id>
	<title>Re:What's the point?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263892320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, they are mainly for old people. That's certainly the market for them here in the Netherlands, where the most popular available electric bikes are marketed as having "invisible motors" so that people don't know you need assist.</p><p>For longer commutes, there are <a href="http://hembrow.blogspot.com/search/label/sinner\%20mango" title="blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">better options than electric assist</a> [blogspot.com].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , they are mainly for old people .
That 's certainly the market for them here in the Netherlands , where the most popular available electric bikes are marketed as having " invisible motors " so that people do n't know you need assist.For longer commutes , there are better options than electric assist [ blogspot.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, they are mainly for old people.
That's certainly the market for them here in the Netherlands, where the most popular available electric bikes are marketed as having "invisible motors" so that people don't know you need assist.For longer commutes, there are better options than electric assist [blogspot.com].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816956</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816986</id>
	<title>Re:These are (not at all) useless as transport</title>
	<author>cduffy</author>
	<datestamp>1263891960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Peak? Absolutely.</p><p>Over hours? Not so much.</p><p>Anyhow, 250W is the kind of pansy-ass bike they make for the European market where the laws are ridiculously restrictive. US- and Canadian-made e-bikes are closer to 1kW output; my own ride is, an Optibike 850x, weighs 55lb including the internal battery, sufficient for 40-50 miles. The external battery brings the range up to over 100 miles and adds 15 pounds more. Newer Optibikes (and mine, when it gets back from its current round of upgrades) are using the Rohloff Speedhub, which provides a wide enough range of gearing ratios that there's no reasonable question about any hill, including those in San Francisco.</p><p>For street-legal bikes in Europe or Austrailia -- yes, you have a point. In the US? No. My moderately hilly commute takes 75 minutes each way on my unassisted bike, 45 on the Opti; that adds up to a big difference in time I have available each week for things I like to do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Peak ?
Absolutely.Over hours ?
Not so much.Anyhow , 250W is the kind of pansy-ass bike they make for the European market where the laws are ridiculously restrictive .
US- and Canadian-made e-bikes are closer to 1kW output ; my own ride is , an Optibike 850x , weighs 55lb including the internal battery , sufficient for 40-50 miles .
The external battery brings the range up to over 100 miles and adds 15 pounds more .
Newer Optibikes ( and mine , when it gets back from its current round of upgrades ) are using the Rohloff Speedhub , which provides a wide enough range of gearing ratios that there 's no reasonable question about any hill , including those in San Francisco.For street-legal bikes in Europe or Austrailia -- yes , you have a point .
In the US ?
No. My moderately hilly commute takes 75 minutes each way on my unassisted bike , 45 on the Opti ; that adds up to a big difference in time I have available each week for things I like to do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Peak?
Absolutely.Over hours?
Not so much.Anyhow, 250W is the kind of pansy-ass bike they make for the European market where the laws are ridiculously restrictive.
US- and Canadian-made e-bikes are closer to 1kW output; my own ride is, an Optibike 850x, weighs 55lb including the internal battery, sufficient for 40-50 miles.
The external battery brings the range up to over 100 miles and adds 15 pounds more.
Newer Optibikes (and mine, when it gets back from its current round of upgrades) are using the Rohloff Speedhub, which provides a wide enough range of gearing ratios that there's no reasonable question about any hill, including those in San Francisco.For street-legal bikes in Europe or Austrailia -- yes, you have a point.
In the US?
No. My moderately hilly commute takes 75 minutes each way on my unassisted bike, 45 on the Opti; that adds up to a big difference in time I have available each week for things I like to do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816912</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816926</id>
	<title>these are great fun!!</title>
	<author>mxh83</author>
	<datestamp>1263934320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ever since I saw the little scooter in Reign Over Me I always wanted it.  Where can one get something like this today?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ever since I saw the little scooter in Reign Over Me I always wanted it .
Where can one get something like this today ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ever since I saw the little scooter in Reign Over Me I always wanted it.
Where can one get something like this today?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817226</id>
	<title>Re: The Year of the E-Bicycle</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263895080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ebicycle sounds like fuckcycle for russian ear.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ebicycle sounds like fuckcycle for russian ear .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ebicycle sounds like fuckcycle for russian ear.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816962</id>
	<title>Re:Old</title>
	<author>rolfwind</author>
	<datestamp>1263891720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>We had those here (Japan) for 5 years now, they're quite popular in rural areas or for shopping but otherwise everyone takes the train.</p></div></blockquote><p>In Germany, I'm sure many people would love to have something that they could take on and off the train, to make the medium-distance trips from station to destination.  Traditional bikes are already a hassle and few carriages allow something like that.</p><p>Folding bikes are often crap, scooters are too big, an electric folding bike might be popular here.  Of course, getting everything down to size...</p><p>Cars are a hassle and expensive to maintain and park.  There just needs to be something that complements trains, not to replace them or anything.</p><p>As for the states, the only real bicycling culture are in the biggest cities.  Mass Transit is nearly non-existent outside of that or just more hassle than it's worth.  It's better to buy a $2300 car than this for 99.999\% of cases.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We had those here ( Japan ) for 5 years now , they 're quite popular in rural areas or for shopping but otherwise everyone takes the train.In Germany , I 'm sure many people would love to have something that they could take on and off the train , to make the medium-distance trips from station to destination .
Traditional bikes are already a hassle and few carriages allow something like that.Folding bikes are often crap , scooters are too big , an electric folding bike might be popular here .
Of course , getting everything down to size...Cars are a hassle and expensive to maintain and park .
There just needs to be something that complements trains , not to replace them or anything.As for the states , the only real bicycling culture are in the biggest cities .
Mass Transit is nearly non-existent outside of that or just more hassle than it 's worth .
It 's better to buy a $ 2300 car than this for 99.999 \ % of cases .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We had those here (Japan) for 5 years now, they're quite popular in rural areas or for shopping but otherwise everyone takes the train.In Germany, I'm sure many people would love to have something that they could take on and off the train, to make the medium-distance trips from station to destination.
Traditional bikes are already a hassle and few carriages allow something like that.Folding bikes are often crap, scooters are too big, an electric folding bike might be popular here.
Of course, getting everything down to size...Cars are a hassle and expensive to maintain and park.
There just needs to be something that complements trains, not to replace them or anything.As for the states, the only real bicycling culture are in the biggest cities.
Mass Transit is nearly non-existent outside of that or just more hassle than it's worth.
It's better to buy a $2300 car than this for 99.999\% of cases.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816890</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818282</id>
	<title>Aerobic Cruiser</title>
	<author>cellurl</author>
	<datestamp>1263910200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>These guys have a Euro-tuned servo that gets more than 40miles per charge plus NO-CHAIN!
<br> <br>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPUeh6QUHo0" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">Aerobic Cruiser in Memphis</a> [youtube.com]
<br>
<br>
After you give to Haiti, check us out<br>
<a href="http://www.wikispeedia.org/" title="wikispeedia.org" rel="nofollow">Quit Speeding</a> [wikispeedia.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>These guys have a Euro-tuned servo that gets more than 40miles per charge plus NO-CHAIN !
Aerobic Cruiser in Memphis [ youtube.com ] After you give to Haiti , check us out Quit Speeding [ wikispeedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>These guys have a Euro-tuned servo that gets more than 40miles per charge plus NO-CHAIN!
Aerobic Cruiser in Memphis [youtube.com]


After you give to Haiti, check us out
Quit Speeding [wikispeedia.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818646</id>
	<title>Re:Great, still doesn't fix the Houston problem.</title>
	<author>0100010001010011</author>
	<datestamp>1263913500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I was 10-12 I liked riding my bike to and from two local towns. (No clue how I talked my parents into it.) One was 5 miles away and the other was 8. I went to a day camp in one and 4th grade in the other. Now I didn't ride every day, but maybe once a week and only when it was warm.</p><p>Riding home from day camp one day I passed a pickup full of redneck jackasses. 2 up front and 2 in the back. I caught an apple square across the thy, left a bruise that took a few weeks to go away.</p><p>Never told my parents, but that was the last time I rode.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I was 10-12 I liked riding my bike to and from two local towns .
( No clue how I talked my parents into it .
) One was 5 miles away and the other was 8 .
I went to a day camp in one and 4th grade in the other .
Now I did n't ride every day , but maybe once a week and only when it was warm.Riding home from day camp one day I passed a pickup full of redneck jackasses .
2 up front and 2 in the back .
I caught an apple square across the thy , left a bruise that took a few weeks to go away.Never told my parents , but that was the last time I rode .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I was 10-12 I liked riding my bike to and from two local towns.
(No clue how I talked my parents into it.
) One was 5 miles away and the other was 8.
I went to a day camp in one and 4th grade in the other.
Now I didn't ride every day, but maybe once a week and only when it was warm.Riding home from day camp one day I passed a pickup full of redneck jackasses.
2 up front and 2 in the back.
I caught an apple square across the thy, left a bruise that took a few weeks to go away.Never told my parents, but that was the last time I rode.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816908</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30822254</id>
	<title>Re:Great, still doesn't fix the Houston problem.</title>
	<author>TheTyrannyOfForcedRe</author>
	<datestamp>1263929520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My ex girlfriend had all manner of things thrown at her while cycling while living in Pittsburgh, PA.  Fast food sodas were the weapon of choice.  People threw them while traveling at 20-30 mph.  20+ ounces of liquid hurts at that speed.</p><p>Once, her brother had someone pull up next to him and aim a rifle at him through the passenger window.  This was a pickup of course.</p><p>That's not to mention the times when people would pace along side and hurl the worst insults imaginable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My ex girlfriend had all manner of things thrown at her while cycling while living in Pittsburgh , PA. Fast food sodas were the weapon of choice .
People threw them while traveling at 20-30 mph .
20 + ounces of liquid hurts at that speed.Once , her brother had someone pull up next to him and aim a rifle at him through the passenger window .
This was a pickup of course.That 's not to mention the times when people would pace along side and hurl the worst insults imaginable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My ex girlfriend had all manner of things thrown at her while cycling while living in Pittsburgh, PA.  Fast food sodas were the weapon of choice.
People threw them while traveling at 20-30 mph.
20+ ounces of liquid hurts at that speed.Once, her brother had someone pull up next to him and aim a rifle at him through the passenger window.
This was a pickup of course.That's not to mention the times when people would pace along side and hurl the worst insults imaginable.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816908</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818126</id>
	<title>Re:What's the point?</title>
	<author>SoupIsGoodFood\_42</author>
	<datestamp>1263907980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm reasonably fit. However, I'm not fit enough to bike a long way, up hills, under the sun, in casual clothes, without getting uncomfortably sweaty -- that limits its use to me. I see a huge market for electric bikes. The price will come down.</p><p>As for more parts to break, that sounds like a desperate argument. There aren't that many more parts in an electric bike. Besides, a modern bike has many more parts than an old bike, yet they don't seem to be a problem. Or are you one of those crazy single-speeders who doesn't even have front brakes?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm reasonably fit .
However , I 'm not fit enough to bike a long way , up hills , under the sun , in casual clothes , without getting uncomfortably sweaty -- that limits its use to me .
I see a huge market for electric bikes .
The price will come down.As for more parts to break , that sounds like a desperate argument .
There are n't that many more parts in an electric bike .
Besides , a modern bike has many more parts than an old bike , yet they do n't seem to be a problem .
Or are you one of those crazy single-speeders who does n't even have front brakes ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm reasonably fit.
However, I'm not fit enough to bike a long way, up hills, under the sun, in casual clothes, without getting uncomfortably sweaty -- that limits its use to me.
I see a huge market for electric bikes.
The price will come down.As for more parts to break, that sounds like a desperate argument.
There aren't that many more parts in an electric bike.
Besides, a modern bike has many more parts than an old bike, yet they don't seem to be a problem.
Or are you one of those crazy single-speeders who doesn't even have front brakes?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816956</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818094</id>
	<title>Re:Great, still doesn't fix the Houston problem.</title>
	<author>Katatsumuri</author>
	<datestamp>1263907620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Do you really have problems with people throwing beer bottles at you?</p></div><p>Yeah, why would anyone have problems with that?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you really have problems with people throwing beer bottles at you ? Yeah , why would anyone have problems with that ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you really have problems with people throwing beer bottles at you?Yeah, why would anyone have problems with that?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816908</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30819112</id>
	<title>Re:These are useless as transport</title>
	<author>prefect42</author>
	<datestamp>1263916200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Energy cost, perhaps, but I don't know about kinetic energy output.  If you're saying you can use 500W for long periods (let's say a couple of hours), then match that to calorie intake.  That's 860 kcal to replace the energy cost for that additional work.  That's believeable right?</p><p>Muscle efficiency <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle#Efficiency" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle#Efficiency</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>"The efficiency of human muscle has been measured (in the context of rowing and cycling) at 18\% to 26\%"</p><p>So if you were right, you'd actually need 3400 kcal to replace losses from that 2 hour exercise.  That's waaay too much.</p><p>With my logic, that means you actual power output is actually more like 125W, almost perfectly inline with the motor being twice as powerful.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Energy cost , perhaps , but I do n't know about kinetic energy output .
If you 're saying you can use 500W for long periods ( let 's say a couple of hours ) , then match that to calorie intake .
That 's 860 kcal to replace the energy cost for that additional work .
That 's believeable right ? Muscle efficiency http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle # Efficiency [ wikipedia.org ] " The efficiency of human muscle has been measured ( in the context of rowing and cycling ) at 18 \ % to 26 \ % " So if you were right , you 'd actually need 3400 kcal to replace losses from that 2 hour exercise .
That 's waaay too much.With my logic , that means you actual power output is actually more like 125W , almost perfectly inline with the motor being twice as powerful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Energy cost, perhaps, but I don't know about kinetic energy output.
If you're saying you can use 500W for long periods (let's say a couple of hours), then match that to calorie intake.
That's 860 kcal to replace the energy cost for that additional work.
That's believeable right?Muscle efficiency http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle#Efficiency [wikipedia.org]"The efficiency of human muscle has been measured (in the context of rowing and cycling) at 18\% to 26\%"So if you were right, you'd actually need 3400 kcal to replace losses from that 2 hour exercise.
That's waaay too much.With my logic, that means you actual power output is actually more like 125W, almost perfectly inline with the motor being twice as powerful.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817068</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30822440</id>
	<title>Re:the alternatives are 10x cheaper</title>
	<author>2short</author>
	<datestamp>1263930120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"$2300 is considerably less than what an unmotorized high-end bicycle costs."<br><br>Well, I have a bicycle that cost about that, and the people I ride with have ones that cost between that and twice as much.  But let's be serious; none of us would consider commuting on these bicycles.  I don't have a lock for my road bike because I would never consider leaving it somewhere that one was required.<br><br>I commute on a couple of bikes; the nice one is worth maybe $400.<br><br>Violet Crown looks like they make lovely  bicycles, and I wish them all the luck, but;  I've got an extracycle that can do all their bikes can (as it's the same, just kludgeier), and it cost me a heck of alot less.  Picking out the best-fitting used mtb frame at the sports consignment store provides a pretty good fit.  Certainly not as 'optimal' as a custom build, but come on.  It's a cargo bike. 3K?  WTF?<br><br>"if a $10K conventional bike makes sense for someone (and lots of them do sell!)"<br>Selling doesn't equal making sense.  And "lots" "sell"?   The only 10K bike I've heard of was the one stolen from Lance's bike shop, of which it was mentioned "10 exist in the world".  If a 10K bike makes sense for you and you don't get it free in an endorsement deal, somethings wrong.<br><br>In any case, look at the picture of the electric moped in this article.  It is not competing with the latest Cervelo, nor with VioletCrown, nor with Optibike.  It's competing with a $400 Electra Townie so $2300 is stupid, or with a $2000 scooter, so its lame performance is stupid.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" $ 2300 is considerably less than what an unmotorized high-end bicycle costs .
" Well , I have a bicycle that cost about that , and the people I ride with have ones that cost between that and twice as much .
But let 's be serious ; none of us would consider commuting on these bicycles .
I do n't have a lock for my road bike because I would never consider leaving it somewhere that one was required.I commute on a couple of bikes ; the nice one is worth maybe $ 400.Violet Crown looks like they make lovely bicycles , and I wish them all the luck , but ; I 've got an extracycle that can do all their bikes can ( as it 's the same , just kludgeier ) , and it cost me a heck of alot less .
Picking out the best-fitting used mtb frame at the sports consignment store provides a pretty good fit .
Certainly not as 'optimal ' as a custom build , but come on .
It 's a cargo bike .
3K ? WTF ?
" if a $ 10K conventional bike makes sense for someone ( and lots of them do sell !
) " Selling does n't equal making sense .
And " lots " " sell " ?
The only 10K bike I 've heard of was the one stolen from Lance 's bike shop , of which it was mentioned " 10 exist in the world " .
If a 10K bike makes sense for you and you do n't get it free in an endorsement deal , somethings wrong.In any case , look at the picture of the electric moped in this article .
It is not competing with the latest Cervelo , nor with VioletCrown , nor with Optibike .
It 's competing with a $ 400 Electra Townie so $ 2300 is stupid , or with a $ 2000 scooter , so its lame performance is stupid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"$2300 is considerably less than what an unmotorized high-end bicycle costs.
"Well, I have a bicycle that cost about that, and the people I ride with have ones that cost between that and twice as much.
But let's be serious; none of us would consider commuting on these bicycles.
I don't have a lock for my road bike because I would never consider leaving it somewhere that one was required.I commute on a couple of bikes; the nice one is worth maybe $400.Violet Crown looks like they make lovely  bicycles, and I wish them all the luck, but;  I've got an extracycle that can do all their bikes can (as it's the same, just kludgeier), and it cost me a heck of alot less.
Picking out the best-fitting used mtb frame at the sports consignment store provides a pretty good fit.
Certainly not as 'optimal' as a custom build, but come on.
It's a cargo bike.
3K?  WTF?
"if a $10K conventional bike makes sense for someone (and lots of them do sell!
)"Selling doesn't equal making sense.
And "lots" "sell"?
The only 10K bike I've heard of was the one stolen from Lance's bike shop, of which it was mentioned "10 exist in the world".
If a 10K bike makes sense for you and you don't get it free in an endorsement deal, somethings wrong.In any case, look at the picture of the electric moped in this article.
It is not competing with the latest Cervelo, nor with VioletCrown, nor with Optibike.
It's competing with a $400 Electra Townie so $2300 is stupid, or with a $2000 scooter, so its lame performance is stupid.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817464</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818238</id>
	<title>MIT's Copenhagen Wheel</title>
	<author>Chris Pimlott</author>
	<datestamp>1263909780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>MIT has a product in the works called the <a href="http://senseable.mit.edu/copenhagenwheel/" title="mit.edu">Copenhagen Wheel</a> [mit.edu] that's a straight replacement for your rear tire.  The motor, batteries and regenerative brakes are all contained in the oversized hub and the controls are connected via bluetooth to eliminate wiring.  They are planning to enter production sometime this year, but no hard details yet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>MIT has a product in the works called the Copenhagen Wheel [ mit.edu ] that 's a straight replacement for your rear tire .
The motor , batteries and regenerative brakes are all contained in the oversized hub and the controls are connected via bluetooth to eliminate wiring .
They are planning to enter production sometime this year , but no hard details yet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>MIT has a product in the works called the Copenhagen Wheel [mit.edu] that's a straight replacement for your rear tire.
The motor, batteries and regenerative brakes are all contained in the oversized hub and the controls are connected via bluetooth to eliminate wiring.
They are planning to enter production sometime this year, but no hard details yet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817040</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818400</id>
	<title>I used to live in Salt Lake City, supposedly a</title>
	<author>aussersterne</author>
	<datestamp>1263911580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>mountain biking mecca. And I had much the same experience cycling in the city. There are few bike lanes, but the roads are pretty wide. You wouldn't think there would be a problem. But the motorists often got angry at bicycles simply because they were there. I OFTEN got honked at by passing cars (they'd wait until they were right on your tail or next to you, then HOOOOONK while they yelled out the window) and I got a decent number of things thrown at me.</p><p>Worst was a 7-11 double gulp cup that was full. It hit me on the side of the head, the lid came off, I got drenched in Coke and then the edge of the cup got stuck between my crank and my chain causing me to wipe out. I was sticky, covered in soda, and had to walk my bike home and use tools to get the thing out and the bike cranking again.</p><p>This was in the '90s before the "national concsiousness of greenness and cycling" hit. Hopefully things are different now.</p><p>These days I live in NYC and would cycle everywhere (there are a lot of cyclists and motorists are aware of them) only my wife forbids it, being absolutely terrified that I will succumb to NYC traffic.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-P</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>mountain biking mecca .
And I had much the same experience cycling in the city .
There are few bike lanes , but the roads are pretty wide .
You would n't think there would be a problem .
But the motorists often got angry at bicycles simply because they were there .
I OFTEN got honked at by passing cars ( they 'd wait until they were right on your tail or next to you , then HOOOOONK while they yelled out the window ) and I got a decent number of things thrown at me.Worst was a 7-11 double gulp cup that was full .
It hit me on the side of the head , the lid came off , I got drenched in Coke and then the edge of the cup got stuck between my crank and my chain causing me to wipe out .
I was sticky , covered in soda , and had to walk my bike home and use tools to get the thing out and the bike cranking again.This was in the '90s before the " national concsiousness of greenness and cycling " hit .
Hopefully things are different now.These days I live in NYC and would cycle everywhere ( there are a lot of cyclists and motorists are aware of them ) only my wife forbids it , being absolutely terrified that I will succumb to NYC traffic .
: -P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>mountain biking mecca.
And I had much the same experience cycling in the city.
There are few bike lanes, but the roads are pretty wide.
You wouldn't think there would be a problem.
But the motorists often got angry at bicycles simply because they were there.
I OFTEN got honked at by passing cars (they'd wait until they were right on your tail or next to you, then HOOOOONK while they yelled out the window) and I got a decent number of things thrown at me.Worst was a 7-11 double gulp cup that was full.
It hit me on the side of the head, the lid came off, I got drenched in Coke and then the edge of the cup got stuck between my crank and my chain causing me to wipe out.
I was sticky, covered in soda, and had to walk my bike home and use tools to get the thing out and the bike cranking again.This was in the '90s before the "national concsiousness of greenness and cycling" hit.
Hopefully things are different now.These days I live in NYC and would cycle everywhere (there are a lot of cyclists and motorists are aware of them) only my wife forbids it, being absolutely terrified that I will succumb to NYC traffic.
:-P</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816908</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817180</id>
	<title>Unexploded battery under your bum?</title>
	<author>jamesh</author>
	<datestamp>1263894420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>a black lithium-ion battery strapped to the frame beneath the seat</p></div><p>whatcouldpossiblygowrong?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>a black lithium-ion battery strapped to the frame beneath the seatwhatcouldpossiblygowrong ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>a black lithium-ion battery strapped to the frame beneath the seatwhatcouldpossiblygowrong?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30819092</id>
	<title>Re:Sanyo Fail</title>
	<author>dimension6</author>
	<datestamp>1263916080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The Sanyo Eneloop bike is an exception. Nearly all electric hybrid bikes here in Japan indeed drive through the <a href="http://cycle.panasonic.jp/products/electric/" title="panasonic.jp">chain, with pedal assist</a> [panasonic.jp] (no throttle). I've been heavily riding my folding Panasonic hybrid electric bike for over two years now, and it's worked almost flawlessly. I replaced the battery once, which was around $300 (though the old battery still holds a decent charge). One issue with the electric assist bikes here in Japan is the fact that the law prohibits any assistance over 20kph. The assistance fades out over this point. For most city riding, it's fine, but for some open areas, I wanted more speed so I had the rear wheel rebuilt with the SRAM DualDrive internally-geared hub. This simple (or complex!) re-gearing increased the assisted top speed to just under 30kph, which is about as fast as I would want to go with the thing. It's still not as fast as my non-electric Dahon Jetstream XP, but it sure is great for hauling stuff (I have no car, so nearly all shopping is done via bike).</htmltext>
<tokenext>The Sanyo Eneloop bike is an exception .
Nearly all electric hybrid bikes here in Japan indeed drive through the chain , with pedal assist [ panasonic.jp ] ( no throttle ) .
I 've been heavily riding my folding Panasonic hybrid electric bike for over two years now , and it 's worked almost flawlessly .
I replaced the battery once , which was around $ 300 ( though the old battery still holds a decent charge ) .
One issue with the electric assist bikes here in Japan is the fact that the law prohibits any assistance over 20kph .
The assistance fades out over this point .
For most city riding , it 's fine , but for some open areas , I wanted more speed so I had the rear wheel rebuilt with the SRAM DualDrive internally-geared hub .
This simple ( or complex !
) re-gearing increased the assisted top speed to just under 30kph , which is about as fast as I would want to go with the thing .
It 's still not as fast as my non-electric Dahon Jetstream XP , but it sure is great for hauling stuff ( I have no car , so nearly all shopping is done via bike ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Sanyo Eneloop bike is an exception.
Nearly all electric hybrid bikes here in Japan indeed drive through the chain, with pedal assist [panasonic.jp] (no throttle).
I've been heavily riding my folding Panasonic hybrid electric bike for over two years now, and it's worked almost flawlessly.
I replaced the battery once, which was around $300 (though the old battery still holds a decent charge).
One issue with the electric assist bikes here in Japan is the fact that the law prohibits any assistance over 20kph.
The assistance fades out over this point.
For most city riding, it's fine, but for some open areas, I wanted more speed so I had the rear wheel rebuilt with the SRAM DualDrive internally-geared hub.
This simple (or complex!
) re-gearing increased the assisted top speed to just under 30kph, which is about as fast as I would want to go with the thing.
It's still not as fast as my non-electric Dahon Jetstream XP, but it sure is great for hauling stuff (I have no car, so nearly all shopping is done via bike).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816968</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818914</id>
	<title>250W is not enough power.  Over $2k is ridiculous</title>
	<author>serialband</author>
	<datestamp>1263915240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The electric bicycle rules need to be changed.  A 20 mph limit is just not useful to commuters.  I can't even fathom the 15 mph limit set for other countries.  If I want to use it to commute, I want it to be able to keep up with traffic in a 25mph zone and not block traffic.  Even with a 20mph limit, it should maintain at least 20mph going uphill.  275 Watts is just insufficient to keep it going even 5mph up the hills where I live.  The only advantage to these e-bikes, is that they can prevent you from sweating profusely when you arrive at work, especially if you had no access to a shower there.  Which is what I used it for when I started out.  I didn't have to sweat going up the hill.</p><p>I tried out an older 375W Charger Bike when I got back to bicycling to work and my muscles had atrophied from 7 years of having to drive an hour each way to work.  It sells for around $750 from a guy who bought the remaining stock ( <a href="http://abc.eznettools.net/D300013/X300109/eBike1.html" title="eznettools.net" rel="nofollow">http://abc.eznettools.net/D300013/X300109/eBike1.html</a> [eznettools.net] ) and it just wasn't enough power to really go up the hills where I live.  It went about 7 mph uphill unless you stood up and forcefully assisted it and possibly doubled the speed.  Has anyone seen how fast Lance Armstrong biked up a hill while huffing &amp; puffing?  He's not exactly speeding up a hill.</p><p>The 20 mph limit is also too low for me since I now pedal faster than that on a level surface.  It's absolutely useless for going downhill too.  The motor would cut off at the legally set speed of 20mph.  The only time I got the extra power was when I went up a hill and at best it added 5mph to my peddaling.  It's been sitting in storage for several years now since I use a more convenient folding bicycle for easier commuting on public transit legs of my trip.  The batteries are likely dead now, and I haven't used that in a while.  Luckily, the bicycle is still usefull by itself without the battery pack.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The electric bicycle rules need to be changed .
A 20 mph limit is just not useful to commuters .
I ca n't even fathom the 15 mph limit set for other countries .
If I want to use it to commute , I want it to be able to keep up with traffic in a 25mph zone and not block traffic .
Even with a 20mph limit , it should maintain at least 20mph going uphill .
275 Watts is just insufficient to keep it going even 5mph up the hills where I live .
The only advantage to these e-bikes , is that they can prevent you from sweating profusely when you arrive at work , especially if you had no access to a shower there .
Which is what I used it for when I started out .
I did n't have to sweat going up the hill.I tried out an older 375W Charger Bike when I got back to bicycling to work and my muscles had atrophied from 7 years of having to drive an hour each way to work .
It sells for around $ 750 from a guy who bought the remaining stock ( http : //abc.eznettools.net/D300013/X300109/eBike1.html [ eznettools.net ] ) and it just was n't enough power to really go up the hills where I live .
It went about 7 mph uphill unless you stood up and forcefully assisted it and possibly doubled the speed .
Has anyone seen how fast Lance Armstrong biked up a hill while huffing &amp; puffing ?
He 's not exactly speeding up a hill.The 20 mph limit is also too low for me since I now pedal faster than that on a level surface .
It 's absolutely useless for going downhill too .
The motor would cut off at the legally set speed of 20mph .
The only time I got the extra power was when I went up a hill and at best it added 5mph to my peddaling .
It 's been sitting in storage for several years now since I use a more convenient folding bicycle for easier commuting on public transit legs of my trip .
The batteries are likely dead now , and I have n't used that in a while .
Luckily , the bicycle is still usefull by itself without the battery pack .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The electric bicycle rules need to be changed.
A 20 mph limit is just not useful to commuters.
I can't even fathom the 15 mph limit set for other countries.
If I want to use it to commute, I want it to be able to keep up with traffic in a 25mph zone and not block traffic.
Even with a 20mph limit, it should maintain at least 20mph going uphill.
275 Watts is just insufficient to keep it going even 5mph up the hills where I live.
The only advantage to these e-bikes, is that they can prevent you from sweating profusely when you arrive at work, especially if you had no access to a shower there.
Which is what I used it for when I started out.
I didn't have to sweat going up the hill.I tried out an older 375W Charger Bike when I got back to bicycling to work and my muscles had atrophied from 7 years of having to drive an hour each way to work.
It sells for around $750 from a guy who bought the remaining stock ( http://abc.eznettools.net/D300013/X300109/eBike1.html [eznettools.net] ) and it just wasn't enough power to really go up the hills where I live.
It went about 7 mph uphill unless you stood up and forcefully assisted it and possibly doubled the speed.
Has anyone seen how fast Lance Armstrong biked up a hill while huffing &amp; puffing?
He's not exactly speeding up a hill.The 20 mph limit is also too low for me since I now pedal faster than that on a level surface.
It's absolutely useless for going downhill too.
The motor would cut off at the legally set speed of 20mph.
The only time I got the extra power was when I went up a hill and at best it added 5mph to my peddaling.
It's been sitting in storage for several years now since I use a more convenient folding bicycle for easier commuting on public transit legs of my trip.
The batteries are likely dead now, and I haven't used that in a while.
Luckily, the bicycle is still usefull by itself without the battery pack.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817552</id>
	<title>Re:Laziness! Now in disguise!</title>
	<author>hrvatska</author>
	<datestamp>1263899880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If an ebike can increase a person's average speed by enough, it can be the difference between using a car and not using a car.  I ride bike a lot recreationally (3 to 4 thousand miles/year) and I've considered getting an ebike.  I live 15 miles from work in a largely rural area.  I occasionally ride to work, but there are some large hills (500 to 600 feet vertical and 5\% to 8\% grade) on the way that cause my average speed to fall below 15 mph.  This means the commute takes over an hour each way by bike.  If a significant part of a ride consists of climbing, those climbs will drastically influence the average time of the ride.  The fast downhill times don't influence the overall average nearly so much as the really slow uphills.  If an ebike can significantly reduce my times uphill it could make riding into work a lot more practical.  The commute is over some very bike friendly roads, it's just that it takes too much time to do regularly.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If an ebike can increase a person 's average speed by enough , it can be the difference between using a car and not using a car .
I ride bike a lot recreationally ( 3 to 4 thousand miles/year ) and I 've considered getting an ebike .
I live 15 miles from work in a largely rural area .
I occasionally ride to work , but there are some large hills ( 500 to 600 feet vertical and 5 \ % to 8 \ % grade ) on the way that cause my average speed to fall below 15 mph .
This means the commute takes over an hour each way by bike .
If a significant part of a ride consists of climbing , those climbs will drastically influence the average time of the ride .
The fast downhill times do n't influence the overall average nearly so much as the really slow uphills .
If an ebike can significantly reduce my times uphill it could make riding into work a lot more practical .
The commute is over some very bike friendly roads , it 's just that it takes too much time to do regularly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If an ebike can increase a person's average speed by enough, it can be the difference between using a car and not using a car.
I ride bike a lot recreationally (3 to 4 thousand miles/year) and I've considered getting an ebike.
I live 15 miles from work in a largely rural area.
I occasionally ride to work, but there are some large hills (500 to 600 feet vertical and 5\% to 8\% grade) on the way that cause my average speed to fall below 15 mph.
This means the commute takes over an hour each way by bike.
If a significant part of a ride consists of climbing, those climbs will drastically influence the average time of the ride.
The fast downhill times don't influence the overall average nearly so much as the really slow uphills.
If an ebike can significantly reduce my times uphill it could make riding into work a lot more practical.
The commute is over some very bike friendly roads, it's just that it takes too much time to do regularly.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816906</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818172</id>
	<title>Re:the alternatives are 10x cheaper</title>
	<author>rcb1974</author>
	<datestamp>1263908700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Scooters compared to an electric bike are bad because:<ol>
<li>Scooters are loud.  Electric bikes are generally very quiet.</li><li>Scooters have small wheels, making it more dangerous for the rider if he hits a pothole, stone, bump, etc.  Small wheels also make it more difficult to balance on a scooter.  Large wheels are better for so many reasons -- easier to balance, goes over bumps better, etc.</li><li>Don't you need to pay insurance and registration fees for a scooter?  I'm pretty sure you have to do that for mopeds.  You don't need to insure or register your bicycle.</li><li>You don't need a drivers license to ride a bicycle.</li><li>You can power your electric bike just by pedaling when you run out of "fuel" (low battery).  You can't do that on a scooter.</li></ol></htmltext>
<tokenext>Scooters compared to an electric bike are bad because : Scooters are loud .
Electric bikes are generally very quiet.Scooters have small wheels , making it more dangerous for the rider if he hits a pothole , stone , bump , etc .
Small wheels also make it more difficult to balance on a scooter .
Large wheels are better for so many reasons -- easier to balance , goes over bumps better , etc.Do n't you need to pay insurance and registration fees for a scooter ?
I 'm pretty sure you have to do that for mopeds .
You do n't need to insure or register your bicycle.You do n't need a drivers license to ride a bicycle.You can power your electric bike just by pedaling when you run out of " fuel " ( low battery ) .
You ca n't do that on a scooter .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Scooters compared to an electric bike are bad because:
Scooters are loud.
Electric bikes are generally very quiet.Scooters have small wheels, making it more dangerous for the rider if he hits a pothole, stone, bump, etc.
Small wheels also make it more difficult to balance on a scooter.
Large wheels are better for so many reasons -- easier to balance, goes over bumps better, etc.Don't you need to pay insurance and registration fees for a scooter?
I'm pretty sure you have to do that for mopeds.
You don't need to insure or register your bicycle.You don't need a drivers license to ride a bicycle.You can power your electric bike just by pedaling when you run out of "fuel" (low battery).
You can't do that on a scooter.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816966</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818018</id>
	<title>Could work</title>
	<author>Niubi</author>
	<datestamp>1263906720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>But you would need to totally rebrand them to be cool, much like Steve Jobs has totally revived the Apple brand in the last decade. After that, you'll need to sell them cheap, possibly via sites like <a href="http://www.dubli.com/" title="dubli.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.dubli.com/</a> [dubli.com] to encourage people who aren't so rich that this is a great transportation method. Bingo - e-bikes are in!</htmltext>
<tokenext>But you would need to totally rebrand them to be cool , much like Steve Jobs has totally revived the Apple brand in the last decade .
After that , you 'll need to sell them cheap , possibly via sites like http : //www.dubli.com/ [ dubli.com ] to encourage people who are n't so rich that this is a great transportation method .
Bingo - e-bikes are in !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But you would need to totally rebrand them to be cool, much like Steve Jobs has totally revived the Apple brand in the last decade.
After that, you'll need to sell them cheap, possibly via sites like http://www.dubli.com/ [dubli.com] to encourage people who aren't so rich that this is a great transportation method.
Bingo - e-bikes are in!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817048</id>
	<title>Re:Laziness! Now in disguise!</title>
	<author>ianezz</author>
	<datestamp>1263892680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's not just laziness: in the town where I live (northern Italy) half of the residential areas are on hills, while offices and factories are on the bottom of the valley, with level differences of 200-400m. Electric bycicles are quite popular among middle-aged people (and I'd say also younger ones), because they allow them to ride to work for the most part of the year. An healty man in its thirties has few reasons to buy an electric bike, but things change once you get older.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not just laziness : in the town where I live ( northern Italy ) half of the residential areas are on hills , while offices and factories are on the bottom of the valley , with level differences of 200-400m .
Electric bycicles are quite popular among middle-aged people ( and I 'd say also younger ones ) , because they allow them to ride to work for the most part of the year .
An healty man in its thirties has few reasons to buy an electric bike , but things change once you get older .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not just laziness: in the town where I live (northern Italy) half of the residential areas are on hills, while offices and factories are on the bottom of the valley, with level differences of 200-400m.
Electric bycicles are quite popular among middle-aged people (and I'd say also younger ones), because they allow them to ride to work for the most part of the year.
An healty man in its thirties has few reasons to buy an electric bike, but things change once you get older.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816906</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817210</id>
	<title>Re:These are useless as transport</title>
	<author>bertok</author>
	<datestamp>1263894840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> <i>Surely humans can produce well in excess of 250W. </i> </p><p>Yes.  250W is only "twice as much power as you provide" if you're taking it very easy.  Based on measurements provided by the exercise bikes at my gym, I know I'm able to produce around a kilowatt for 5 minutes or so at a time, and can sustain 500W practically indefinitely.</p><p>OTOH, there are regulatory reasons for the motor being 250W: at least here in the UK, you'd need a full drivers licence, annual vehicle inspection and all-around crash helmet to ride it if it were more powerful.  It should also be designed so that the motor cannot make the bike go faster than 15mph.</p></div><p>Errr... according to this:</p><p><i>Lance Armstrong can ride up the mountains in France generating about 500 watts of power for 20 minutes, something a typical 25-year-old could do for only 30 seconds. A professional hockey player might last three minutes and then throw up.</i> (<a href="http://www.active.com/cycling/Articles/Lance\_Armstrong\_\_How\_does\_he\_do\_it\_.htm" title="active.com">source</a> [active.com])</p><p>...it sounds like you're either an olympic-level athlete... who reads slashdot... or your gym equipment is severely miscalibrated. I've tried those bikes at the gym, and 250W is<br>my limit for a 10-15 minute stretch, and I'm by no means unhealthy. Are you sure those weren't imperial units? I know the UK has switched to metric, in theory, but I know some of you poms still get confused. 8)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Surely humans can produce well in excess of 250W .
Yes. 250W is only " twice as much power as you provide " if you 're taking it very easy .
Based on measurements provided by the exercise bikes at my gym , I know I 'm able to produce around a kilowatt for 5 minutes or so at a time , and can sustain 500W practically indefinitely.OTOH , there are regulatory reasons for the motor being 250W : at least here in the UK , you 'd need a full drivers licence , annual vehicle inspection and all-around crash helmet to ride it if it were more powerful .
It should also be designed so that the motor can not make the bike go faster than 15mph.Errr... according to this : Lance Armstrong can ride up the mountains in France generating about 500 watts of power for 20 minutes , something a typical 25-year-old could do for only 30 seconds .
A professional hockey player might last three minutes and then throw up .
( source [ active.com ] ) ...it sounds like you 're either an olympic-level athlete... who reads slashdot... or your gym equipment is severely miscalibrated .
I 've tried those bikes at the gym , and 250W ismy limit for a 10-15 minute stretch , and I 'm by no means unhealthy .
Are you sure those were n't imperial units ?
I know the UK has switched to metric , in theory , but I know some of you poms still get confused .
8 )</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Surely humans can produce well in excess of 250W.
Yes.  250W is only "twice as much power as you provide" if you're taking it very easy.
Based on measurements provided by the exercise bikes at my gym, I know I'm able to produce around a kilowatt for 5 minutes or so at a time, and can sustain 500W practically indefinitely.OTOH, there are regulatory reasons for the motor being 250W: at least here in the UK, you'd need a full drivers licence, annual vehicle inspection and all-around crash helmet to ride it if it were more powerful.
It should also be designed so that the motor cannot make the bike go faster than 15mph.Errr... according to this:Lance Armstrong can ride up the mountains in France generating about 500 watts of power for 20 minutes, something a typical 25-year-old could do for only 30 seconds.
A professional hockey player might last three minutes and then throw up.
(source [active.com])...it sounds like you're either an olympic-level athlete... who reads slashdot... or your gym equipment is severely miscalibrated.
I've tried those bikes at the gym, and 250W ismy limit for a 10-15 minute stretch, and I'm by no means unhealthy.
Are you sure those weren't imperial units?
I know the UK has switched to metric, in theory, but I know some of you poms still get confused.
8)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817068</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818158</id>
	<title>Re:the alternatives are 10x cheaper</title>
	<author>SoupIsGoodFood\_42</author>
	<datestamp>1263908340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Can you still pedal a scooter effectively when the battery is flat?</p><p>And if you think that price is expensive, then you haven't looked at many high-end mountain bikes lately. Plenty of people willing to pay a lot for a good bike.</p><p>Besides, they're still new. The price will drop.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Can you still pedal a scooter effectively when the battery is flat ? And if you think that price is expensive , then you have n't looked at many high-end mountain bikes lately .
Plenty of people willing to pay a lot for a good bike.Besides , they 're still new .
The price will drop .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can you still pedal a scooter effectively when the battery is flat?And if you think that price is expensive, then you haven't looked at many high-end mountain bikes lately.
Plenty of people willing to pay a lot for a good bike.Besides, they're still new.
The price will drop.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816966</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30822190</id>
	<title>Re:These are useless as transport</title>
	<author>Vegan Cyclist</author>
	<datestamp>1263929340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You've got it.

</p><p>I'm a bike racer, training 4-5 days per week, and use a PowerTap, which measures wattage on the bike (it's built into the rear hub of my bike.)

</p><p>500w is very difficult to maintain, and impossible for the 'average' person...i think 30 seconds is pushing it, i'm a fairly strong rider over shorter distances, and i can hold it for perhaps 1.5mins, if i'm having a spectacular day! I am doubtful a hockey player can sustain that for 3mins unless they've trained extensively on the bike as well...

</p><p>Over an hour, my FTP (functional threshold power) is in the 265w range...so all things being equal, i'd be able to edge out one of these bikes over the distance. The FTP of Lance is probably in the 420-450w range, and an average person ought to be able to hold 90-140w over an hour.

250w gets you up over 30kph on flat terrain, so you're moving at a pretty good speed, and that's the speed where the limiter usually kicks in as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 've got it .
I 'm a bike racer , training 4-5 days per week , and use a PowerTap , which measures wattage on the bike ( it 's built into the rear hub of my bike .
) 500w is very difficult to maintain , and impossible for the 'average ' person...i think 30 seconds is pushing it , i 'm a fairly strong rider over shorter distances , and i can hold it for perhaps 1.5mins , if i 'm having a spectacular day !
I am doubtful a hockey player can sustain that for 3mins unless they 've trained extensively on the bike as well.. . Over an hour , my FTP ( functional threshold power ) is in the 265w range...so all things being equal , i 'd be able to edge out one of these bikes over the distance .
The FTP of Lance is probably in the 420-450w range , and an average person ought to be able to hold 90-140w over an hour .
250w gets you up over 30kph on flat terrain , so you 're moving at a pretty good speed , and that 's the speed where the limiter usually kicks in as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You've got it.
I'm a bike racer, training 4-5 days per week, and use a PowerTap, which measures wattage on the bike (it's built into the rear hub of my bike.
)

500w is very difficult to maintain, and impossible for the 'average' person...i think 30 seconds is pushing it, i'm a fairly strong rider over shorter distances, and i can hold it for perhaps 1.5mins, if i'm having a spectacular day!
I am doubtful a hockey player can sustain that for 3mins unless they've trained extensively on the bike as well...

Over an hour, my FTP (functional threshold power) is in the 265w range...so all things being equal, i'd be able to edge out one of these bikes over the distance.
The FTP of Lance is probably in the 420-450w range, and an average person ought to be able to hold 90-140w over an hour.
250w gets you up over 30kph on flat terrain, so you're moving at a pretty good speed, and that's the speed where the limiter usually kicks in as well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817210</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818344</id>
	<title>Re:What's the point?</title>
	<author>dargaud</author>
	<datestamp>1263910800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The point ? Well, let's see if I can get you to see it the same way I'm currently thinking about getting one of those beasts. I live in a city that's very bike-friendly: bike paths are everywhere and the entire city is flat. A normal bike is perfect. But the city is surrounded by mountains. If you live 20km from downtown, chances are you already have more than 500m to go up, so that's a bit much for a daily commute. And the roads are few and crowded. An electric bike is allowed on bike paths (but not an electric scooter or even a moped). And if you want to have fun on the way down, cutting through mountain / forest trails, you need a decent mountain bike. Also the roads are often icy / wet, precluding a standard motorbike (an electric bike is slower and doesn't use the road on the way down, so hopefully that implies less risk).
<p>
And one final point is that you are allowed to take a bus with a bike. I hoped I summed up why I'm currently considering it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The point ?
Well , let 's see if I can get you to see it the same way I 'm currently thinking about getting one of those beasts .
I live in a city that 's very bike-friendly : bike paths are everywhere and the entire city is flat .
A normal bike is perfect .
But the city is surrounded by mountains .
If you live 20km from downtown , chances are you already have more than 500m to go up , so that 's a bit much for a daily commute .
And the roads are few and crowded .
An electric bike is allowed on bike paths ( but not an electric scooter or even a moped ) .
And if you want to have fun on the way down , cutting through mountain / forest trails , you need a decent mountain bike .
Also the roads are often icy / wet , precluding a standard motorbike ( an electric bike is slower and does n't use the road on the way down , so hopefully that implies less risk ) .
And one final point is that you are allowed to take a bus with a bike .
I hoped I summed up why I 'm currently considering it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The point ?
Well, let's see if I can get you to see it the same way I'm currently thinking about getting one of those beasts.
I live in a city that's very bike-friendly: bike paths are everywhere and the entire city is flat.
A normal bike is perfect.
But the city is surrounded by mountains.
If you live 20km from downtown, chances are you already have more than 500m to go up, so that's a bit much for a daily commute.
And the roads are few and crowded.
An electric bike is allowed on bike paths (but not an electric scooter or even a moped).
And if you want to have fun on the way down, cutting through mountain / forest trails, you need a decent mountain bike.
Also the roads are often icy / wet, precluding a standard motorbike (an electric bike is slower and doesn't use the road on the way down, so hopefully that implies less risk).
And one final point is that you are allowed to take a bus with a bike.
I hoped I summed up why I'm currently considering it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816956</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817164</id>
	<title>Fugly</title>
	<author>zag2me</author>
	<datestamp>1263894120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't know about anyone else but I wouldn't be seen dead riding that sanyo thing.

The go cycle is about the only good looking ebike available right now.

<a href="http://www.gocycle.com/" title="gocycle.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.gocycle.com/</a> [gocycle.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know about anyone else but I would n't be seen dead riding that sanyo thing .
The go cycle is about the only good looking ebike available right now .
http : //www.gocycle.com/ [ gocycle.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know about anyone else but I wouldn't be seen dead riding that sanyo thing.
The go cycle is about the only good looking ebike available right now.
http://www.gocycle.com/ [gocycle.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30819120</id>
	<title>Unicycles seem better to me ...</title>
	<author>Lazy Jones</author>
	<datestamp>1263916260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Because of its simpler, smaller (= leightweight) design, the self-balancing unicycle seems more promising: <a href="http://focusdesigns.com/2009/12/21/adam-savage-sbu/" title="focusdesigns.com">Focus Designs SBU</a> [focusdesigns.com]. I'm not sure if it's really that easy to master, but I plan on getting one.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Because of its simpler , smaller ( = leightweight ) design , the self-balancing unicycle seems more promising : Focus Designs SBU [ focusdesigns.com ] .
I 'm not sure if it 's really that easy to master , but I plan on getting one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because of its simpler, smaller (= leightweight) design, the self-balancing unicycle seems more promising: Focus Designs SBU [focusdesigns.com].
I'm not sure if it's really that easy to master, but I plan on getting one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30819688</id>
	<title>Re:Great, still doesn't fix the Houston problem.</title>
	<author>snspdaarf</author>
	<datestamp>1263919020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I live in a small town in east Texas, and the pin-heads throw bottles at me when I mow my lawn. I am sure they see a cyclist as just a more challenging target. So far, I have not been hit, and they are throwing emptys. I don't think they are dumb enough to throw away a full beer, but I worry about a bottle full of piss.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I live in a small town in east Texas , and the pin-heads throw bottles at me when I mow my lawn .
I am sure they see a cyclist as just a more challenging target .
So far , I have not been hit , and they are throwing emptys .
I do n't think they are dumb enough to throw away a full beer , but I worry about a bottle full of piss .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I live in a small town in east Texas, and the pin-heads throw bottles at me when I mow my lawn.
I am sure they see a cyclist as just a more challenging target.
So far, I have not been hit, and they are throwing emptys.
I don't think they are dumb enough to throw away a full beer, but I worry about a bottle full of piss.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816908</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817178</id>
	<title>Lame.</title>
	<author>L4m3rthanyou</author>
	<datestamp>1263894360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They demoed E-bikes on my college campus, and with good reason- college yuppies are actually stupid and wealthy enough to buy E-bikes. I test-rode one, and it's fun, but not $2000 fun. I'll stick with my regular bike.</p><p>To make matters worse, these dumbasses ride around stupidly and create more hate for cyclists from pedestrians and motorists alike. Also, they're stimulating the bike theft market by locking up poorly. Last week I saw one locked with a U-lock around a single spoke of the front wheel and a cable through the rear wheel... the idiot didn't even think to take out the external battery.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They demoed E-bikes on my college campus , and with good reason- college yuppies are actually stupid and wealthy enough to buy E-bikes .
I test-rode one , and it 's fun , but not $ 2000 fun .
I 'll stick with my regular bike.To make matters worse , these dumbasses ride around stupidly and create more hate for cyclists from pedestrians and motorists alike .
Also , they 're stimulating the bike theft market by locking up poorly .
Last week I saw one locked with a U-lock around a single spoke of the front wheel and a cable through the rear wheel... the idiot did n't even think to take out the external battery .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They demoed E-bikes on my college campus, and with good reason- college yuppies are actually stupid and wealthy enough to buy E-bikes.
I test-rode one, and it's fun, but not $2000 fun.
I'll stick with my regular bike.To make matters worse, these dumbasses ride around stupidly and create more hate for cyclists from pedestrians and motorists alike.
Also, they're stimulating the bike theft market by locking up poorly.
Last week I saw one locked with a U-lock around a single spoke of the front wheel and a cable through the rear wheel... the idiot didn't even think to take out the external battery.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818110</id>
	<title>Re:These are useless as transport</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263907800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are mistaken.  I suspect you mixed up "watts" with "kilocalories per hour".  Sustaining 500 watts indefinitely would make you superhuman.  Sustaining 500 kcal/h makes you about<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... average.  Coincidentally, that is just about the 125 watts that the OP referenced.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are mistaken .
I suspect you mixed up " watts " with " kilocalories per hour " .
Sustaining 500 watts indefinitely would make you superhuman .
Sustaining 500 kcal/h makes you about ... average. Coincidentally , that is just about the 125 watts that the OP referenced .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are mistaken.
I suspect you mixed up "watts" with "kilocalories per hour".
Sustaining 500 watts indefinitely would make you superhuman.
Sustaining 500 kcal/h makes you about ... average.  Coincidentally, that is just about the 125 watts that the OP referenced.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817068</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30819134</id>
	<title>Used in Toronto for years</title>
	<author>GSMacLean</author>
	<datestamp>1263916320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Electric bikes have been used and encouraged in Toronto for over three years. They can appear like stocky bicycles, or scooter-style. They have a maximum speed of 20 mph, and you don't need a drivers license, motorcycle license, license plate or insurance. A whole industry has sprung up around the legislation with many models of electric bicycles being sold.<br> <br>

<a href="http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/vehicle/emerging/e-bike-faq.shtml" title="gov.on.ca" rel="nofollow">Ontario Ministry of Transportation e-Bike FAQ</a> [gov.on.ca]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Electric bikes have been used and encouraged in Toronto for over three years .
They can appear like stocky bicycles , or scooter-style .
They have a maximum speed of 20 mph , and you do n't need a drivers license , motorcycle license , license plate or insurance .
A whole industry has sprung up around the legislation with many models of electric bicycles being sold .
Ontario Ministry of Transportation e-Bike FAQ [ gov.on.ca ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Electric bikes have been used and encouraged in Toronto for over three years.
They can appear like stocky bicycles, or scooter-style.
They have a maximum speed of 20 mph, and you don't need a drivers license, motorcycle license, license plate or insurance.
A whole industry has sprung up around the legislation with many models of electric bicycles being sold.
Ontario Ministry of Transportation e-Bike FAQ [gov.on.ca]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817476</id>
	<title>uhm...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263898500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Regular bikes also have been around for more than a century and actually also help you get the lard of your ass much quicker. I guess this is why America is fat.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Regular bikes also have been around for more than a century and actually also help you get the lard of your ass much quicker .
I guess this is why America is fat .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Regular bikes also have been around for more than a century and actually also help you get the lard of your ass much quicker.
I guess this is why America is fat.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818960</id>
	<title>Re:These are useless as transport</title>
	<author>Confuse Ed</author>
	<datestamp>1263915480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>re:<br>&gt; a kilowatt for 5 minutes or so at a time, and can sustain 500W practically indefinitely.</p><p>You've probably been mislead by much exercise equipment being (deliberately?) vague about whether they are measuring power output / mechanical work done, or 'equivilent food energy burnt'.</p><p>A typical assumption used is that the human body is only 20\% to 25\% efficient, so if you output 150W of mechanical power for 1 hour on a bike you've supplied 540KJ of energy (129 kCal), but the chances are your heart-rate-monitor, bike computer or whatever is going to tell you that you've offset the consumption of more like 2.4MJ or 600 kCal of food-intake (or a equivilent fuel intake to over 600W if you work back the other way through the calculation)</p><p>Some generous exercise equipment may also include your BMR in their display of calories-burnt, which is another 100W or so of power output but entirely lost as heat not mechanical power.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>re : &gt; a kilowatt for 5 minutes or so at a time , and can sustain 500W practically indefinitely.You 've probably been mislead by much exercise equipment being ( deliberately ?
) vague about whether they are measuring power output / mechanical work done , or 'equivilent food energy burnt'.A typical assumption used is that the human body is only 20 \ % to 25 \ % efficient , so if you output 150W of mechanical power for 1 hour on a bike you 've supplied 540KJ of energy ( 129 kCal ) , but the chances are your heart-rate-monitor , bike computer or whatever is going to tell you that you 've offset the consumption of more like 2.4MJ or 600 kCal of food-intake ( or a equivilent fuel intake to over 600W if you work back the other way through the calculation ) Some generous exercise equipment may also include your BMR in their display of calories-burnt , which is another 100W or so of power output but entirely lost as heat not mechanical power .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>re:&gt; a kilowatt for 5 minutes or so at a time, and can sustain 500W practically indefinitely.You've probably been mislead by much exercise equipment being (deliberately?
) vague about whether they are measuring power output / mechanical work done, or 'equivilent food energy burnt'.A typical assumption used is that the human body is only 20\% to 25\% efficient, so if you output 150W of mechanical power for 1 hour on a bike you've supplied 540KJ of energy (129 kCal), but the chances are your heart-rate-monitor, bike computer or whatever is going to tell you that you've offset the consumption of more like 2.4MJ or 600 kCal of food-intake (or a equivilent fuel intake to over 600W if you work back the other way through the calculation)Some generous exercise equipment may also include your BMR in their display of calories-burnt, which is another 100W or so of power output but entirely lost as heat not mechanical power.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817068</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818520</id>
	<title>Re:the alternatives are 10x cheaper</title>
	<author>dr\_leviathan</author>
	<datestamp>1263912540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well, maybe a little silly (pricey) for a 250W ebike -- there are less and more expensive options out there at a variety of power and weight.  I assembled a 1.9kW electric bicycle for almost exactly $2300 and it will keep up with your scooter... for only about 10 miles.  But hey, it's inexpensive to charge, quiet, and lots of fun!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , maybe a little silly ( pricey ) for a 250W ebike -- there are less and more expensive options out there at a variety of power and weight .
I assembled a 1.9kW electric bicycle for almost exactly $ 2300 and it will keep up with your scooter... for only about 10 miles .
But hey , it 's inexpensive to charge , quiet , and lots of fun !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, maybe a little silly (pricey) for a 250W ebike -- there are less and more expensive options out there at a variety of power and weight.
I assembled a 1.9kW electric bicycle for almost exactly $2300 and it will keep up with your scooter... for only about 10 miles.
But hey, it's inexpensive to charge, quiet, and lots of fun!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816966</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817120</id>
	<title>Re:These are useless as transport</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263893640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Average sustainable power output of a normal (non-overweight) person is about 100W. The hub motor only provides the 250W in bursts while accelerating from a stop or going uphill. The rest of the time, assist power is less than 100W, but still more  than most people would put in pedaling.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Average sustainable power output of a normal ( non-overweight ) person is about 100W .
The hub motor only provides the 250W in bursts while accelerating from a stop or going uphill .
The rest of the time , assist power is less than 100W , but still more than most people would put in pedaling .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Average sustainable power output of a normal (non-overweight) person is about 100W.
The hub motor only provides the 250W in bursts while accelerating from a stop or going uphill.
The rest of the time, assist power is less than 100W, but still more  than most people would put in pedaling.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816912</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816956</id>
	<title>What's the point?</title>
	<author>tafkadasoh</author>
	<datestamp>1263891600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I do bike a lot, but I don't get the point of those e-bikes (except for old people maybe). I'd like to have additional power on long tours but for those these batteries are just additional weight for most of the trip, which you'll feel when going uphill. City trips (less than 20 km) shouldn't wear out a healthy person, so no good point having them there. My bike is 10 kg now and I still think it's too heavy. I don't see a very big market for them. Also, more parts means more things can break.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do bike a lot , but I do n't get the point of those e-bikes ( except for old people maybe ) .
I 'd like to have additional power on long tours but for those these batteries are just additional weight for most of the trip , which you 'll feel when going uphill .
City trips ( less than 20 km ) should n't wear out a healthy person , so no good point having them there .
My bike is 10 kg now and I still think it 's too heavy .
I do n't see a very big market for them .
Also , more parts means more things can break .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I do bike a lot, but I don't get the point of those e-bikes (except for old people maybe).
I'd like to have additional power on long tours but for those these batteries are just additional weight for most of the trip, which you'll feel when going uphill.
City trips (less than 20 km) shouldn't wear out a healthy person, so no good point having them there.
My bike is 10 kg now and I still think it's too heavy.
I don't see a very big market for them.
Also, more parts means more things can break.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817256</id>
	<title>Re:best quote</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263895380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've lived in China for 5 years and these things are pretty much standard for anyone (hundreds of millions of people...not kidding) who doesn't have a car or needs the extra push of a real motor bike.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; It's a little funny to see how far usa is behind the times.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've lived in China for 5 years and these things are pretty much standard for anyone ( hundreds of millions of people...not kidding ) who does n't have a car or needs the extra push of a real motor bike .
      It 's a little funny to see how far usa is behind the times .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've lived in China for 5 years and these things are pretty much standard for anyone (hundreds of millions of people...not kidding) who doesn't have a car or needs the extra push of a real motor bike.
      It's a little funny to see how far usa is behind the times.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816888</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817232</id>
	<title>So it is like getting Browner?</title>
	<author>Fotograf</author>
	<datestamp>1263895140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I mean making Green less green by loading it with pseudo green tech?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I mean making Green less green by loading it with pseudo green tech ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I mean making Green less green by loading it with pseudo green tech?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818002</id>
	<title>Only Old Ladies Ride Those!</title>
	<author>kklein</author>
	<datestamp>1263906420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I live in Japan, and I see these electric-assist bikes all the time.

</p><p>I have yet to see a male or anyone shy of 70 riding one. I use them to tease my wife: "Hey, hon, look! They have electric bikes on sale! You want one?"

</p><p>Perhaps kdawson would like an electric wheelchair, too, rather than using his legs like a sucker?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I live in Japan , and I see these electric-assist bikes all the time .
I have yet to see a male or anyone shy of 70 riding one .
I use them to tease my wife : " Hey , hon , look !
They have electric bikes on sale !
You want one ?
" Perhaps kdawson would like an electric wheelchair , too , rather than using his legs like a sucker ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I live in Japan, and I see these electric-assist bikes all the time.
I have yet to see a male or anyone shy of 70 riding one.
I use them to tease my wife: "Hey, hon, look!
They have electric bikes on sale!
You want one?
"

Perhaps kdawson would like an electric wheelchair, too, rather than using his legs like a sucker?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818992</id>
	<title>Re:These are useless as transport</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263915600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>On a flat road 250W will get you from point A to B easily.</p><p>The problem comes in when you go uphill. Then you have to really look at your sustainable W/kg over the course of an hour. The higher that ratio the quicker you will climb. Obviously this will vary from person to person.</p><p>Myself, I weigh 170lbs and the bike apparently weighs 50lbs, so that makes 76.5kg and 22.5kg respectively. So that means my W/kg is 250/99 = 2.52W/kg. Not great, but not "untrained" either. That power output would be consistent with a new Cat5 (beginner) road racer.</p><p>Of course you can add in any power you provide when pedaling as well. But you would still be in at a Cat5 level. You really need to break ~3.2W/kg to move into Cat4.</p><p>And there is no way you can sustain 500W indefinitely. When going uphill, world class riders shoot for the "magic ratio" of 5.8W/kg. Lance usually weighs about 67kg. That means hes putting out 388W when he climbs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>On a flat road 250W will get you from point A to B easily.The problem comes in when you go uphill .
Then you have to really look at your sustainable W/kg over the course of an hour .
The higher that ratio the quicker you will climb .
Obviously this will vary from person to person.Myself , I weigh 170lbs and the bike apparently weighs 50lbs , so that makes 76.5kg and 22.5kg respectively .
So that means my W/kg is 250/99 = 2.52W/kg .
Not great , but not " untrained " either .
That power output would be consistent with a new Cat5 ( beginner ) road racer.Of course you can add in any power you provide when pedaling as well .
But you would still be in at a Cat5 level .
You really need to break ~ 3.2W/kg to move into Cat4.And there is no way you can sustain 500W indefinitely .
When going uphill , world class riders shoot for the " magic ratio " of 5.8W/kg .
Lance usually weighs about 67kg .
That means hes putting out 388W when he climbs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On a flat road 250W will get you from point A to B easily.The problem comes in when you go uphill.
Then you have to really look at your sustainable W/kg over the course of an hour.
The higher that ratio the quicker you will climb.
Obviously this will vary from person to person.Myself, I weigh 170lbs and the bike apparently weighs 50lbs, so that makes 76.5kg and 22.5kg respectively.
So that means my W/kg is 250/99 = 2.52W/kg.
Not great, but not "untrained" either.
That power output would be consistent with a new Cat5 (beginner) road racer.Of course you can add in any power you provide when pedaling as well.
But you would still be in at a Cat5 level.
You really need to break ~3.2W/kg to move into Cat4.And there is no way you can sustain 500W indefinitely.
When going uphill, world class riders shoot for the "magic ratio" of 5.8W/kg.
Lance usually weighs about 67kg.
That means hes putting out 388W when he climbs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817068</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818160</id>
	<title>No wonder you USians are fat bastards</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263908400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&ldquo;The average auto trip in the U.S. is five miles or less&rdquo;</p><p>A round-trip of 8 km! I sure hope thats an overstatement (understatement?). In most other countries around the world, that's bording on walking distance and hardly considered worth getting the bike out of the garage for. No wonders USA allways terrorise oil producing countries into submission.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>   The average auto trip in the U.S. is five miles or less    A round-trip of 8 km !
I sure hope thats an overstatement ( understatement ? ) .
In most other countries around the world , that 's bording on walking distance and hardly considered worth getting the bike out of the garage for .
No wonders USA allways terrorise oil producing countries into submission .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>“The average auto trip in the U.S. is five miles or less”A round-trip of 8 km!
I sure hope thats an overstatement (understatement?).
In most other countries around the world, that's bording on walking distance and hardly considered worth getting the bike out of the garage for.
No wonders USA allways terrorise oil producing countries into submission.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817362</id>
	<title>15 mph ?</title>
	<author>aepervius</author>
	<datestamp>1263896820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That is 24 km.h-1. I am going at 20 on normal time without breaking a sweat, and up to 30/35 when in a hurry and don't mind getting sweaty. 15.m.h-1/24km.h-1 seems unreasonably low as a limit.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That is 24 km.h-1 .
I am going at 20 on normal time without breaking a sweat , and up to 30/35 when in a hurry and do n't mind getting sweaty .
15.m.h-1/24km.h-1 seems unreasonably low as a limit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is 24 km.h-1.
I am going at 20 on normal time without breaking a sweat, and up to 30/35 when in a hurry and don't mind getting sweaty.
15.m.h-1/24km.h-1 seems unreasonably low as a limit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817068</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818542</id>
	<title>Re:Fugly</title>
	<author>captaindynamo</author>
	<datestamp>1263912720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why not roll-your-own. More power, less money, use any bicycle. <a href="http://www.electricrider.com/" title="electricrider.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.electricrider.com/</a> [electricrider.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why not roll-your-own .
More power , less money , use any bicycle .
http : //www.electricrider.com/ [ electricrider.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why not roll-your-own.
More power, less money, use any bicycle.
http://www.electricrider.com/ [electricrider.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817164</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818244</id>
	<title>Re:the alternatives are 10x cheaper</title>
	<author>Rockoon</author>
	<datestamp>1263909780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>$2300 is considerably less than what an <i>unmotorized</i> high-end bicycle costs.</p></div><p>
Just because some people are idiots that will spend several thousand dollars on a freaking bicycle does not testify to the practicality of the cost of e-bikes.<br>
<br>
The median household income in the United States is about $50,000. That $2,300 bicycle of yours is 4.6\% of the houses income. This is almost 2.5 *weeks* of income for the entire household, <i>for a bicycle.</i> <br>
<br>
Thats insane considering the alternatives. I can find a used *car* for that price.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>$ 2300 is considerably less than what an unmotorized high-end bicycle costs .
Just because some people are idiots that will spend several thousand dollars on a freaking bicycle does not testify to the practicality of the cost of e-bikes .
The median household income in the United States is about $ 50,000 .
That $ 2,300 bicycle of yours is 4.6 \ % of the houses income .
This is almost 2.5 * weeks * of income for the entire household , for a bicycle .
Thats insane considering the alternatives .
I can find a used * car * for that price .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>$2300 is considerably less than what an unmotorized high-end bicycle costs.
Just because some people are idiots that will spend several thousand dollars on a freaking bicycle does not testify to the practicality of the cost of e-bikes.
The median household income in the United States is about $50,000.
That $2,300 bicycle of yours is 4.6\% of the houses income.
This is almost 2.5 *weeks* of income for the entire household, for a bicycle.
Thats insane considering the alternatives.
I can find a used *car* for that price.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817464</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818380</id>
	<title>Re:fatties.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263911280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So you spend 2 hours a day cycling, perhaps some people would like an electric assist bike to make their long journey a bit quicker, not because they are lazy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So you spend 2 hours a day cycling , perhaps some people would like an electric assist bike to make their long journey a bit quicker , not because they are lazy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So you spend 2 hours a day cycling, perhaps some people would like an electric assist bike to make their long journey a bit quicker, not because they are lazy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816998</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817464</id>
	<title>Re:the alternatives are 10x cheaper</title>
	<author>cduffy</author>
	<datestamp>1263898140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Let me follow up taking a different perspective on the argument...</p><p>$2300 is considerably less than what an <i>unmotorized</i> high-end bicycle costs. The <a href="http://www.violetcrowncycles.com/" title="violetcrowncycles.com">local custom framebuilder I recently got a quote from</a> [violetcrowncycles.com] has longtail cargo bikes starting at $3500, plus $1700 to add a motor. Keep in mind, these are vehicles custom-built to the driver's dimensions and specifications, from the frame up, and with capacity to haul a passenger, a load of groceries from Costco, or whatever else you might want -- considerably <i>more</i> cargo capacity than the Honda motor scooter you compare them against. Someone who buys these might be getting a lower top speed, but in other respects they're getting considerably more for their purchase.</p><p>The top of the line in US-made electrics is <a href="http://www.optibike.com/" title="optibike.com">Optibike</a> [optibike.com]. They're expensive toys -- but when you take into account that many of <i>the individual components</i> (just the regular bicycle components that folks might put on a high-end mountain bike, mind you) retail for more than half the cost of your $2000 Honda motor scooter (and some of the individual parts they use on their more expensive bikes, like the Rohloff speedhub, cost more than that scooter as a whole)... they're entirely fairly priced for the market segment they're aimed at.</p><p>There are kits for electrifying your existing bike for $400-600. Perhaps one of those is what's right for you -- but if a $10K conventional bike makes sense for someone (and lots of them do sell!), there are plenty of market niches and price points for ebikes as well.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Let me follow up taking a different perspective on the argument... $ 2300 is considerably less than what an unmotorized high-end bicycle costs .
The local custom framebuilder I recently got a quote from [ violetcrowncycles.com ] has longtail cargo bikes starting at $ 3500 , plus $ 1700 to add a motor .
Keep in mind , these are vehicles custom-built to the driver 's dimensions and specifications , from the frame up , and with capacity to haul a passenger , a load of groceries from Costco , or whatever else you might want -- considerably more cargo capacity than the Honda motor scooter you compare them against .
Someone who buys these might be getting a lower top speed , but in other respects they 're getting considerably more for their purchase.The top of the line in US-made electrics is Optibike [ optibike.com ] .
They 're expensive toys -- but when you take into account that many of the individual components ( just the regular bicycle components that folks might put on a high-end mountain bike , mind you ) retail for more than half the cost of your $ 2000 Honda motor scooter ( and some of the individual parts they use on their more expensive bikes , like the Rohloff speedhub , cost more than that scooter as a whole ) ... they 're entirely fairly priced for the market segment they 're aimed at.There are kits for electrifying your existing bike for $ 400-600 .
Perhaps one of those is what 's right for you -- but if a $ 10K conventional bike makes sense for someone ( and lots of them do sell !
) , there are plenty of market niches and price points for ebikes as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let me follow up taking a different perspective on the argument...$2300 is considerably less than what an unmotorized high-end bicycle costs.
The local custom framebuilder I recently got a quote from [violetcrowncycles.com] has longtail cargo bikes starting at $3500, plus $1700 to add a motor.
Keep in mind, these are vehicles custom-built to the driver's dimensions and specifications, from the frame up, and with capacity to haul a passenger, a load of groceries from Costco, or whatever else you might want -- considerably more cargo capacity than the Honda motor scooter you compare them against.
Someone who buys these might be getting a lower top speed, but in other respects they're getting considerably more for their purchase.The top of the line in US-made electrics is Optibike [optibike.com].
They're expensive toys -- but when you take into account that many of the individual components (just the regular bicycle components that folks might put on a high-end mountain bike, mind you) retail for more than half the cost of your $2000 Honda motor scooter (and some of the individual parts they use on their more expensive bikes, like the Rohloff speedhub, cost more than that scooter as a whole)... they're entirely fairly priced for the market segment they're aimed at.There are kits for electrifying your existing bike for $400-600.
Perhaps one of those is what's right for you -- but if a $10K conventional bike makes sense for someone (and lots of them do sell!
), there are plenty of market niches and price points for ebikes as well.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816966</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30824202</id>
	<title>Re:I used to live in Salt Lake City, supposedly a</title>
	<author>adjustable\_pliers</author>
	<datestamp>1263894060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Salt Lake City is working on the problem. As a member of a neighborhood community council, we're doing our part working with the city on accommodating bicycles with lanes, trails, and awareness. (This is the *city*, mind you... I don't know about the county or other municipalities.)</p><p>The mayor is an avid cyclist. He doesn't take kindly to motorists who derive pleasure at intimidating cyclists.</p><p>Still, as we can all agree, the issue is cultural. For daily commuting, I would enjoy riding my bike, or an e-bike, or anything, but the all-out nasty treatment from motorists keeps me a motorist, too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Salt Lake City is working on the problem .
As a member of a neighborhood community council , we 're doing our part working with the city on accommodating bicycles with lanes , trails , and awareness .
( This is the * city * , mind you... I do n't know about the county or other municipalities .
) The mayor is an avid cyclist .
He does n't take kindly to motorists who derive pleasure at intimidating cyclists.Still , as we can all agree , the issue is cultural .
For daily commuting , I would enjoy riding my bike , or an e-bike , or anything , but the all-out nasty treatment from motorists keeps me a motorist , too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Salt Lake City is working on the problem.
As a member of a neighborhood community council, we're doing our part working with the city on accommodating bicycles with lanes, trails, and awareness.
(This is the *city*, mind you... I don't know about the county or other municipalities.
)The mayor is an avid cyclist.
He doesn't take kindly to motorists who derive pleasure at intimidating cyclists.Still, as we can all agree, the issue is cultural.
For daily commuting, I would enjoy riding my bike, or an e-bike, or anything, but the all-out nasty treatment from motorists keeps me a motorist, too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818400</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817054</id>
	<title>Twice the power?</title>
	<author>notanatheist</author>
	<datestamp>1263892740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Twice whose power? Twice the average slow poke pedaling at 12mph? Or twice the average cyclist doing 16+ mph? 250W doesn't sound like much to me. I can peak over that power output myself as I'm sure any avid cyclist can. Seriously, how about some real numbers and not this "twice the power" BS.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Twice whose power ?
Twice the average slow poke pedaling at 12mph ?
Or twice the average cyclist doing 16 + mph ?
250W does n't sound like much to me .
I can peak over that power output myself as I 'm sure any avid cyclist can .
Seriously , how about some real numbers and not this " twice the power " BS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Twice whose power?
Twice the average slow poke pedaling at 12mph?
Or twice the average cyclist doing 16+ mph?
250W doesn't sound like much to me.
I can peak over that power output myself as I'm sure any avid cyclist can.
Seriously, how about some real numbers and not this "twice the power" BS.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30818210</id>
	<title>Re:Worried about battery explosions</title>
	<author>vlm</author>
	<datestamp>1263909240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I have a friend who does destructive testing of Lithium Ion batteries --- apparently the engineers get freaked out when a pierced battery doesn't explode. The thought of a fragile battery like that, big enough to provide decent range, that close to my body gives me the willies.</p></div><p>You and your friend are probably too terrified to even discuss the far more dangerous vehicle gas tanks, propane grills, and electrical power outlets...  Frankly, I think propane grills with a 20 pound pressurized tank just inches from a flamethrower of a burner and burning grease everywhere is an insane idea, although I do own one.</p><p>Whats the best way to blow up a lithium battery?  Piercing didn't work for me.  A couple years ago I had an old cell phone battery that wasn't holding a charge like it used to, after about 300 or so cycles.  Being a typical slashdotter, I wondered just how dangerous these batteries are, because they spend most of their time approximately two inches from my balls in my pants pocket and I hear constantly about how they're terrifyingly dangerous, you know, like "refer madness" level of terror propoganda (agitprop?).  So, safety glasses, leather gloves and clothing (don't laugh), all cotton everything else (no flammable fake fabrics), two fire extinguishers, full face shield, water hose at the ready, hard hat, nothing flammable or valuable for several meters around, earplugs in case of loud explosion, I hit the back yard patio like a bad episode of mythbusters.  My wife is convinced there will be a giant blast crater and is not amused.  I short it, I smash it with a brick, I drip water on it, nothing happens, although it did get pretty darn hot when I shorted it.  Pellet gun rather explosively disassembled it, but no worse than anything else of similar size that I've shot, like, say, a Prince cassette tape.  Lighting it on fire did nothing obviously different than lighting a comparable piece of plastic.  Smashed it to freaking bits and continued its viking funeral.  I did this at a very relaxing pace to make sure any "reactions" had plenty of time to bloom.  Eventually gave up and disposed of the remains in the ash barrel.  I don't think pyro kids are going to switch from gray market M-80s and bottle rockets to used lithium batteries anytime soon, to say the least.</p><p>Now I do realize there's a lot of stored energy in there.  I've certainly seen some amazing equipment explosions in real life.  In my little electronic lab at home, plenty of electrolytic caps have popped, reverse biased tantalum caps have blown up, and I've smelled the aroma of burning transformer/motor varnish and burning resistors on many an occasion.  I've unintentionally blown up NiCads and NiMH batteries.  I'm quite certain a lithium powered electrical fire could be most exciting, but then again, any electrical fire is exciting regardless of battery chemistry.  I know journalists are profoundly ignorant, so smoking a laptop CPU power supply or high voltage backlight supply or lint in the CPU cooling fan catching fire, in a lithium powered laptop,  WILL be reported as a "lithium battery fire", because thats how magic and mythology work, but that doesn't mean its a real problem.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a friend who does destructive testing of Lithium Ion batteries --- apparently the engineers get freaked out when a pierced battery does n't explode .
The thought of a fragile battery like that , big enough to provide decent range , that close to my body gives me the willies.You and your friend are probably too terrified to even discuss the far more dangerous vehicle gas tanks , propane grills , and electrical power outlets... Frankly , I think propane grills with a 20 pound pressurized tank just inches from a flamethrower of a burner and burning grease everywhere is an insane idea , although I do own one.Whats the best way to blow up a lithium battery ?
Piercing did n't work for me .
A couple years ago I had an old cell phone battery that was n't holding a charge like it used to , after about 300 or so cycles .
Being a typical slashdotter , I wondered just how dangerous these batteries are , because they spend most of their time approximately two inches from my balls in my pants pocket and I hear constantly about how they 're terrifyingly dangerous , you know , like " refer madness " level of terror propoganda ( agitprop ? ) .
So , safety glasses , leather gloves and clothing ( do n't laugh ) , all cotton everything else ( no flammable fake fabrics ) , two fire extinguishers , full face shield , water hose at the ready , hard hat , nothing flammable or valuable for several meters around , earplugs in case of loud explosion , I hit the back yard patio like a bad episode of mythbusters .
My wife is convinced there will be a giant blast crater and is not amused .
I short it , I smash it with a brick , I drip water on it , nothing happens , although it did get pretty darn hot when I shorted it .
Pellet gun rather explosively disassembled it , but no worse than anything else of similar size that I 've shot , like , say , a Prince cassette tape .
Lighting it on fire did nothing obviously different than lighting a comparable piece of plastic .
Smashed it to freaking bits and continued its viking funeral .
I did this at a very relaxing pace to make sure any " reactions " had plenty of time to bloom .
Eventually gave up and disposed of the remains in the ash barrel .
I do n't think pyro kids are going to switch from gray market M-80s and bottle rockets to used lithium batteries anytime soon , to say the least.Now I do realize there 's a lot of stored energy in there .
I 've certainly seen some amazing equipment explosions in real life .
In my little electronic lab at home , plenty of electrolytic caps have popped , reverse biased tantalum caps have blown up , and I 've smelled the aroma of burning transformer/motor varnish and burning resistors on many an occasion .
I 've unintentionally blown up NiCads and NiMH batteries .
I 'm quite certain a lithium powered electrical fire could be most exciting , but then again , any electrical fire is exciting regardless of battery chemistry .
I know journalists are profoundly ignorant , so smoking a laptop CPU power supply or high voltage backlight supply or lint in the CPU cooling fan catching fire , in a lithium powered laptop , WILL be reported as a " lithium battery fire " , because thats how magic and mythology work , but that does n't mean its a real problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a friend who does destructive testing of Lithium Ion batteries --- apparently the engineers get freaked out when a pierced battery doesn't explode.
The thought of a fragile battery like that, big enough to provide decent range, that close to my body gives me the willies.You and your friend are probably too terrified to even discuss the far more dangerous vehicle gas tanks, propane grills, and electrical power outlets...  Frankly, I think propane grills with a 20 pound pressurized tank just inches from a flamethrower of a burner and burning grease everywhere is an insane idea, although I do own one.Whats the best way to blow up a lithium battery?
Piercing didn't work for me.
A couple years ago I had an old cell phone battery that wasn't holding a charge like it used to, after about 300 or so cycles.
Being a typical slashdotter, I wondered just how dangerous these batteries are, because they spend most of their time approximately two inches from my balls in my pants pocket and I hear constantly about how they're terrifyingly dangerous, you know, like "refer madness" level of terror propoganda (agitprop?).
So, safety glasses, leather gloves and clothing (don't laugh), all cotton everything else (no flammable fake fabrics), two fire extinguishers, full face shield, water hose at the ready, hard hat, nothing flammable or valuable for several meters around, earplugs in case of loud explosion, I hit the back yard patio like a bad episode of mythbusters.
My wife is convinced there will be a giant blast crater and is not amused.
I short it, I smash it with a brick, I drip water on it, nothing happens, although it did get pretty darn hot when I shorted it.
Pellet gun rather explosively disassembled it, but no worse than anything else of similar size that I've shot, like, say, a Prince cassette tape.
Lighting it on fire did nothing obviously different than lighting a comparable piece of plastic.
Smashed it to freaking bits and continued its viking funeral.
I did this at a very relaxing pace to make sure any "reactions" had plenty of time to bloom.
Eventually gave up and disposed of the remains in the ash barrel.
I don't think pyro kids are going to switch from gray market M-80s and bottle rockets to used lithium batteries anytime soon, to say the least.Now I do realize there's a lot of stored energy in there.
I've certainly seen some amazing equipment explosions in real life.
In my little electronic lab at home, plenty of electrolytic caps have popped, reverse biased tantalum caps have blown up, and I've smelled the aroma of burning transformer/motor varnish and burning resistors on many an occasion.
I've unintentionally blown up NiCads and NiMH batteries.
I'm quite certain a lithium powered electrical fire could be most exciting, but then again, any electrical fire is exciting regardless of battery chemistry.
I know journalists are profoundly ignorant, so smoking a laptop CPU power supply or high voltage backlight supply or lint in the CPU cooling fan catching fire, in a lithium powered laptop,  WILL be reported as a "lithium battery fire", because thats how magic and mythology work, but that doesn't mean its a real problem.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817470</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816968</id>
	<title>Sanyo Fail</title>
	<author>dreamer.redeemer</author>
	<datestamp>1263891780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Electric bicycles are a great idea for advancing fitness and reducing energy consumption and pollution, but Sanyo did a terrible job at realizing this. Like the eneloop, most e-bikes have the electric motor mounted as the hub of the front wheel, and this is idiotic for a number of reasons. For one, this placement fails to utilize the ~21 gears that happen to be on the bike already, failing in turn to utilize the variability in power and speed. Second, having the motor in the front hub puts all sorts of stress on the forks, limiting the maximum power and accelerating wear on one component you really wouldn't want to fail during run time. Proper chain oriented pedal assist systems are fully possible, I guess Sanyo just figured it was safer to copy the same design that many others have been peddling with limited success. Sigh.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Electric bicycles are a great idea for advancing fitness and reducing energy consumption and pollution , but Sanyo did a terrible job at realizing this .
Like the eneloop , most e-bikes have the electric motor mounted as the hub of the front wheel , and this is idiotic for a number of reasons .
For one , this placement fails to utilize the ~ 21 gears that happen to be on the bike already , failing in turn to utilize the variability in power and speed .
Second , having the motor in the front hub puts all sorts of stress on the forks , limiting the maximum power and accelerating wear on one component you really would n't want to fail during run time .
Proper chain oriented pedal assist systems are fully possible , I guess Sanyo just figured it was safer to copy the same design that many others have been peddling with limited success .
Sigh .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Electric bicycles are a great idea for advancing fitness and reducing energy consumption and pollution, but Sanyo did a terrible job at realizing this.
Like the eneloop, most e-bikes have the electric motor mounted as the hub of the front wheel, and this is idiotic for a number of reasons.
For one, this placement fails to utilize the ~21 gears that happen to be on the bike already, failing in turn to utilize the variability in power and speed.
Second, having the motor in the front hub puts all sorts of stress on the forks, limiting the maximum power and accelerating wear on one component you really wouldn't want to fail during run time.
Proper chain oriented pedal assist systems are fully possible, I guess Sanyo just figured it was safer to copy the same design that many others have been peddling with limited success.
Sigh.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817068</id>
	<title>Re:These are useless as transport</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263892920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Surely humans can produce well in excess of 250W. </i></p><p>Yes.  250W is only "twice as much power as you provide" if you're taking it very easy.  Based on measurements provided by the exercise bikes at my gym, I know I'm able to produce around a kilowatt for 5 minutes or so at a time, and can sustain 500W practically indefinitely.</p><p>OTOH, there are regulatory reasons for the motor being 250W: at least here in the UK, you'd need a full drivers licence, annual vehicle inspection and all-around crash helmet to ride it if it were more powerful.  It should also be designed so that the motor cannot make the bike go faster than 15mph.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Surely humans can produce well in excess of 250W .
Yes. 250W is only " twice as much power as you provide " if you 're taking it very easy .
Based on measurements provided by the exercise bikes at my gym , I know I 'm able to produce around a kilowatt for 5 minutes or so at a time , and can sustain 500W practically indefinitely.OTOH , there are regulatory reasons for the motor being 250W : at least here in the UK , you 'd need a full drivers licence , annual vehicle inspection and all-around crash helmet to ride it if it were more powerful .
It should also be designed so that the motor can not make the bike go faster than 15mph .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Surely humans can produce well in excess of 250W.
Yes.  250W is only "twice as much power as you provide" if you're taking it very easy.
Based on measurements provided by the exercise bikes at my gym, I know I'm able to produce around a kilowatt for 5 minutes or so at a time, and can sustain 500W practically indefinitely.OTOH, there are regulatory reasons for the motor being 250W: at least here in the UK, you'd need a full drivers licence, annual vehicle inspection and all-around crash helmet to ride it if it were more powerful.
It should also be designed so that the motor cannot make the bike go faster than 15mph.</sentencetext>
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<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30817230</id>
	<title>Re:These are useless as transport</title>
	<author>kurthr</author>
	<datestamp>1263895140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I call BS.<br>Perhaps you're an elite cyclist, or someone is editing Wikipedia to make you look silly, but averaging anything like 500W for an hour (much less indefinitely) would make you the worlds best distance cyclist.<br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle\_performance" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle\_performance</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>Lance Armstrong near his peak was reputed to be capable of ~520W for 20min.<br><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/24/weekinreview/24kola.html?\_r=1&amp;pagewanted=print" title="nytimes.com">http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/24/weekinreview/24kola.html?\_r=1&amp;pagewanted=print</a> [nytimes.com]</p><p>Ok... so your gym exercise bike is a flattering, but I agree that 250W is within the range of most regular cyclists, although most won't push that hard.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I call BS.Perhaps you 're an elite cyclist , or someone is editing Wikipedia to make you look silly , but averaging anything like 500W for an hour ( much less indefinitely ) would make you the worlds best distance cyclist.http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle \ _performance [ wikipedia.org ] Lance Armstrong near his peak was reputed to be capable of ~ 520W for 20min.http : //www.nytimes.com/2005/07/24/weekinreview/24kola.html ? \ _r = 1&amp;pagewanted = print [ nytimes.com ] Ok... so your gym exercise bike is a flattering , but I agree that 250W is within the range of most regular cyclists , although most wo n't push that hard .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I call BS.Perhaps you're an elite cyclist, or someone is editing Wikipedia to make you look silly, but averaging anything like 500W for an hour (much less indefinitely) would make you the worlds best distance cyclist.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle\_performance [wikipedia.org]Lance Armstrong near his peak was reputed to be capable of ~520W for 20min.http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/24/weekinreview/24kola.html?\_r=1&amp;pagewanted=print [nytimes.com]Ok... so your gym exercise bike is a flattering, but I agree that 250W is within the range of most regular cyclists, although most won't push that hard.</sentencetext>
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<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30816890</id>
	<title>Old</title>
	<author>ZirconCode</author>
	<datestamp>1263934080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We had those here (Japan) for 5 years now, they're quite popular in rural areas or for shopping but otherwise everyone takes the train.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We had those here ( Japan ) for 5 years now , they 're quite popular in rural areas or for shopping but otherwise everyone takes the train .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We had those here (Japan) for 5 years now, they're quite popular in rural areas or for shopping but otherwise everyone takes the train.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_19_025255.30819910</id>
	<title>Re:What's the point?</title>
	<author>Kozz</author>
	<datestamp>1263919860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>tafkadasoh:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; First, full disclosure:  I am employed by Trek Bicycle Corp, but my statements don't necessarily reflect my company's opinions.  And I'm not in engineering or design (just an IT guy), so I'm no expert on the products.  However...</p><p>Some of your answers can be found here:<br><a href="http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/rideplus/why\_electric\_assist/" title="trekbikes.com">http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/rideplus/why\_electric\_assist/</a> [trekbikes.com]</p><p>The e-bikes primary advantage would not be for people going on "long tours".  But if you're a city commuter, the electronic assist can allow you to make the commute in a reasonable amount of time with reduced effort.  Why is reduced effort important?  Well, the rest of the cyclists may have to bring a change of clothes and shower when they reach their destination.  But if you've got an e-bike, you may even be able to accomplish your commute sweat-free.  Cyclists who have to bring a backpack or pannier containing a change of clothes can appreciate this.</p><p>If you want to do a "long tour", you can remove the battery and ride w/o the assist (on Trek e-bikes, anyhow).  As for concerns regarding parts, the standard Trek warranty covers all Ride+ models.  Additionally, "electric components are covered for 2 years or 600 charge cycles (battery), whichever comes first."<br><a href="http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/rideplus/faqs/" title="trekbikes.com">http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/rideplus/faqs/</a> [trekbikes.com]</p><p>Since your comments have mentioned measurements in metric (unlike us backwards Americans), you may find a Trek website to fit your country / language here:<br><a href="http://www.trekbikes.com/" title="trekbikes.com">http://www.trekbikes.com/</a> [trekbikes.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>tafkadasoh :     First , full disclosure : I am employed by Trek Bicycle Corp , but my statements do n't necessarily reflect my company 's opinions .
And I 'm not in engineering or design ( just an IT guy ) , so I 'm no expert on the products .
However...Some of your answers can be found here : http : //www.trekbikes.com/us/en/rideplus/why \ _electric \ _assist/ [ trekbikes.com ] The e-bikes primary advantage would not be for people going on " long tours " .
But if you 're a city commuter , the electronic assist can allow you to make the commute in a reasonable amount of time with reduced effort .
Why is reduced effort important ?
Well , the rest of the cyclists may have to bring a change of clothes and shower when they reach their destination .
But if you 've got an e-bike , you may even be able to accomplish your commute sweat-free .
Cyclists who have to bring a backpack or pannier containing a change of clothes can appreciate this.If you want to do a " long tour " , you can remove the battery and ride w/o the assist ( on Trek e-bikes , anyhow ) .
As for concerns regarding parts , the standard Trek warranty covers all Ride + models .
Additionally , " electric components are covered for 2 years or 600 charge cycles ( battery ) , whichever comes first .
" http : //www.trekbikes.com/us/en/rideplus/faqs/ [ trekbikes.com ] Since your comments have mentioned measurements in metric ( unlike us backwards Americans ) , you may find a Trek website to fit your country / language here : http : //www.trekbikes.com/ [ trekbikes.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>tafkadasoh:
    First, full disclosure:  I am employed by Trek Bicycle Corp, but my statements don't necessarily reflect my company's opinions.
And I'm not in engineering or design (just an IT guy), so I'm no expert on the products.
However...Some of your answers can be found here:http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/rideplus/why\_electric\_assist/ [trekbikes.com]The e-bikes primary advantage would not be for people going on "long tours".
But if you're a city commuter, the electronic assist can allow you to make the commute in a reasonable amount of time with reduced effort.
Why is reduced effort important?
Well, the rest of the cyclists may have to bring a change of clothes and shower when they reach their destination.
But if you've got an e-bike, you may even be able to accomplish your commute sweat-free.
Cyclists who have to bring a backpack or pannier containing a change of clothes can appreciate this.If you want to do a "long tour", you can remove the battery and ride w/o the assist (on Trek e-bikes, anyhow).
As for concerns regarding parts, the standard Trek warranty covers all Ride+ models.
Additionally, "electric components are covered for 2 years or 600 charge cycles (battery), whichever comes first.
"http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/rideplus/faqs/ [trekbikes.com]Since your comments have mentioned measurements in metric (unlike us backwards Americans), you may find a Trek website to fit your country / language here:http://www.trekbikes.com/ [trekbikes.com]</sentencetext>
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