<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_01_14_2053244</id>
	<title>Powerful Linux ISP Router Distribution?</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1263461760000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>fibrewire writes <i>"I'm building a Wireless ISP using commercial grade, low cost equipment. My main stumbling block is that I cannot find a decent open source ISP class routing distribution. Closest thing to even a decent tool is <a href="http://www.ubnt.com/products/aircontrol.php">Ubiquiti's AIRControl</a> &mdash; but even it doesn't play well with other network monitoring software. I've used <a href="http://www.mikrotik.com/software.html">Mikrotik's RouterOS</a> for five years, but it just isn't built for what I need. I don't mind paying licensing fees, but $300K for a Cisco Universal Broadband Router is out of my budget. Has anyone seen any good open-source/cheap hardware/software systems that will scale to several thousand users?"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>fibrewire writes " I 'm building a Wireless ISP using commercial grade , low cost equipment .
My main stumbling block is that I can not find a decent open source ISP class routing distribution .
Closest thing to even a decent tool is Ubiquiti 's AIRControl    but even it does n't play well with other network monitoring software .
I 've used Mikrotik 's RouterOS for five years , but it just is n't built for what I need .
I do n't mind paying licensing fees , but $ 300K for a Cisco Universal Broadband Router is out of my budget .
Has anyone seen any good open-source/cheap hardware/software systems that will scale to several thousand users ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>fibrewire writes "I'm building a Wireless ISP using commercial grade, low cost equipment.
My main stumbling block is that I cannot find a decent open source ISP class routing distribution.
Closest thing to even a decent tool is Ubiquiti's AIRControl — but even it doesn't play well with other network monitoring software.
I've used Mikrotik's RouterOS for five years, but it just isn't built for what I need.
I don't mind paying licensing fees, but $300K for a Cisco Universal Broadband Router is out of my budget.
Has anyone seen any good open-source/cheap hardware/software systems that will scale to several thousand users?
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30776898</id>
	<title>Re:Mutually exclusive</title>
	<author>Mista2</author>
	<datestamp>1263554760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In my opionion, using reliable equipment means I have to work less frequently at 3:00am when something screws up or dies. The Cisco routers we use arn't cheap, but they are scaleble, run a familiar OS and integrate well with our security systems and monitoring, and they are basicly plug and play - we have config and complaince template, new ger is deployed, config uploaded to the router and that's it. Just rack it and plug in the cables.</p><p>Much less sweat than dealing with configuring a linux router from scratch.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In my opionion , using reliable equipment means I have to work less frequently at 3 : 00am when something screws up or dies .
The Cisco routers we use ar n't cheap , but they are scaleble , run a familiar OS and integrate well with our security systems and monitoring , and they are basicly plug and play - we have config and complaince template , new ger is deployed , config uploaded to the router and that 's it .
Just rack it and plug in the cables.Much less sweat than dealing with configuring a linux router from scratch .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my opionion, using reliable equipment means I have to work less frequently at 3:00am when something screws up or dies.
The Cisco routers we use arn't cheap, but they are scaleble, run a familiar OS and integrate well with our security systems and monitoring, and they are basicly plug and play - we have config and complaince template, new ger is deployed, config uploaded to the router and that's it.
Just rack it and plug in the cables.Much less sweat than dealing with configuring a linux router from scratch.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771598</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30784144</id>
	<title>Re:Step in the right direction</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1263550980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I guess i'm looking for a scalable ISP-in-a-box solution. And if it doesn't exist, then let's build one.</p></div> </blockquote><p>You are going to fail.  Your core business isn't building a open source ISP-in-a-box solution is it?  You'll spend far less money if you get over that thought and use something already packaged and integrated and working together.  You are trying to using something open source to save money, but in the process you're going to spend a freaking fortune building and maintaining the open source package.  This is not a logical way to go about business unless you plan on making that your core business.</p><blockquote><div><p>Someday i will be able to provide free internet</p></div></blockquote><p>So you're going to build a business and then give it away?  How do you expect to pay for this stuff, donations?  I guess you intend to subsidize the internet access by fees from the video/telephony side?   If so thats not really free, thats called bundling, and personally I call it lying.  If its something like 'I can get data for free but I have to buy something else' than its not free.</p><blockquote><div><p>* PowerPC vs X86 vs GPU - does routing perform better on PowerPC (Mikrotik / Vyatta / Cisco)? would an Nvidia Tesla solution work well?</p></div></blockquote><p>If you're packets are regularly making it to the CPU than you've already fucked up.  Packet routing on any sort of scale thats useful is done on custom firmware AND hardware designed to do so.  No one uses any of these to route packets.  They may use them to control the system and handle routing table changes and figuring which interfaces to use, but in a real ISP only the first packet of a session is likely to ever hit the CPU.  Firewalls are a little different, but if you're an ISP and you're shuttling all your traffic through a firewall you aren't much of an ISP in the first place.</p><p>Again, you are not qualified for this.  You are going to waste money and probably fail.  You aren't even qualified to lead the development of the ISP-in-a-box solution because you know absolutely nothing about it and have 0 experience.  How do I know this?  Because you still haven't asked any of the right questions or provided ANY details that would help anyone make a even slightly educated guess about what would help you.  You're still at the point where you need someone to actually TELL YOU what you need.</p><p>Sorry to be a dick about it, but you're going to waste a lot of someone elses money and that pisses me off.  You're also, assuming you ever manage to get it to the point where you have customers are likely going to provide really shitty service.  Even if you got the project going and financed, you're just going to end up leading a project that doesn't know where its going because the leader DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE'S DOING.</p><p>I know PLENTY of shitty ISPs that did EXACTLY the crap you are doing in the late 90s/early 2000s.  Back then it was mostly done by highschool/collage grads who could use a PC so someone thought they knew what they were doing and hired them to 'start an ISP' for them, and 6 months to a year later hundreds of thousands and in one case I know of personally, 10s of millions of dollars were gone and the company was bankrupt.  All of them because some jackass thought because he read about something on the Internet and heard of Linux that they could make it all work.</p><p>You'll be a much better leader when you realize where to draw the line and find someone who knows about the subject matter at hand.  First hint: Slashdot isn't where you look.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I guess i 'm looking for a scalable ISP-in-a-box solution .
And if it does n't exist , then let 's build one .
You are going to fail .
Your core business is n't building a open source ISP-in-a-box solution is it ?
You 'll spend far less money if you get over that thought and use something already packaged and integrated and working together .
You are trying to using something open source to save money , but in the process you 're going to spend a freaking fortune building and maintaining the open source package .
This is not a logical way to go about business unless you plan on making that your core business.Someday i will be able to provide free internetSo you 're going to build a business and then give it away ?
How do you expect to pay for this stuff , donations ?
I guess you intend to subsidize the internet access by fees from the video/telephony side ?
If so thats not really free , thats called bundling , and personally I call it lying .
If its something like 'I can get data for free but I have to buy something else ' than its not free .
* PowerPC vs X86 vs GPU - does routing perform better on PowerPC ( Mikrotik / Vyatta / Cisco ) ?
would an Nvidia Tesla solution work well ? If you 're packets are regularly making it to the CPU than you 've already fucked up .
Packet routing on any sort of scale thats useful is done on custom firmware AND hardware designed to do so .
No one uses any of these to route packets .
They may use them to control the system and handle routing table changes and figuring which interfaces to use , but in a real ISP only the first packet of a session is likely to ever hit the CPU .
Firewalls are a little different , but if you 're an ISP and you 're shuttling all your traffic through a firewall you are n't much of an ISP in the first place.Again , you are not qualified for this .
You are going to waste money and probably fail .
You are n't even qualified to lead the development of the ISP-in-a-box solution because you know absolutely nothing about it and have 0 experience .
How do I know this ?
Because you still have n't asked any of the right questions or provided ANY details that would help anyone make a even slightly educated guess about what would help you .
You 're still at the point where you need someone to actually TELL YOU what you need.Sorry to be a dick about it , but you 're going to waste a lot of someone elses money and that pisses me off .
You 're also , assuming you ever manage to get it to the point where you have customers are likely going to provide really shitty service .
Even if you got the project going and financed , you 're just going to end up leading a project that does n't know where its going because the leader DOES N'T KNOW WHAT HE 'S DOING.I know PLENTY of shitty ISPs that did EXACTLY the crap you are doing in the late 90s/early 2000s .
Back then it was mostly done by highschool/collage grads who could use a PC so someone thought they knew what they were doing and hired them to 'start an ISP ' for them , and 6 months to a year later hundreds of thousands and in one case I know of personally , 10s of millions of dollars were gone and the company was bankrupt .
All of them because some jackass thought because he read about something on the Internet and heard of Linux that they could make it all work.You 'll be a much better leader when you realize where to draw the line and find someone who knows about the subject matter at hand .
First hint : Slashdot is n't where you look .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I guess i'm looking for a scalable ISP-in-a-box solution.
And if it doesn't exist, then let's build one.
You are going to fail.
Your core business isn't building a open source ISP-in-a-box solution is it?
You'll spend far less money if you get over that thought and use something already packaged and integrated and working together.
You are trying to using something open source to save money, but in the process you're going to spend a freaking fortune building and maintaining the open source package.
This is not a logical way to go about business unless you plan on making that your core business.Someday i will be able to provide free internetSo you're going to build a business and then give it away?
How do you expect to pay for this stuff, donations?
I guess you intend to subsidize the internet access by fees from the video/telephony side?
If so thats not really free, thats called bundling, and personally I call it lying.
If its something like 'I can get data for free but I have to buy something else' than its not free.
* PowerPC vs X86 vs GPU - does routing perform better on PowerPC (Mikrotik / Vyatta / Cisco)?
would an Nvidia Tesla solution work well?If you're packets are regularly making it to the CPU than you've already fucked up.
Packet routing on any sort of scale thats useful is done on custom firmware AND hardware designed to do so.
No one uses any of these to route packets.
They may use them to control the system and handle routing table changes and figuring which interfaces to use, but in a real ISP only the first packet of a session is likely to ever hit the CPU.
Firewalls are a little different, but if you're an ISP and you're shuttling all your traffic through a firewall you aren't much of an ISP in the first place.Again, you are not qualified for this.
You are going to waste money and probably fail.
You aren't even qualified to lead the development of the ISP-in-a-box solution because you know absolutely nothing about it and have 0 experience.
How do I know this?
Because you still haven't asked any of the right questions or provided ANY details that would help anyone make a even slightly educated guess about what would help you.
You're still at the point where you need someone to actually TELL YOU what you need.Sorry to be a dick about it, but you're going to waste a lot of someone elses money and that pisses me off.
You're also, assuming you ever manage to get it to the point where you have customers are likely going to provide really shitty service.
Even if you got the project going and financed, you're just going to end up leading a project that doesn't know where its going because the leader DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE'S DOING.I know PLENTY of shitty ISPs that did EXACTLY the crap you are doing in the late 90s/early 2000s.
Back then it was mostly done by highschool/collage grads who could use a PC so someone thought they knew what they were doing and hired them to 'start an ISP' for them, and 6 months to a year later hundreds of thousands and in one case I know of personally, 10s of millions of dollars were gone and the company was bankrupt.
All of them because some jackass thought because he read about something on the Internet and heard of Linux that they could make it all work.You'll be a much better leader when you realize where to draw the line and find someone who knows about the subject matter at hand.
First hint: Slashdot isn't where you look.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30773430</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771250</id>
	<title>Just use any Linux distro</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263465360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just pick up your favorite Linux distribution and get back to me with your requirements. I think Linux can easily do what you need almost out of the box. It is only a matter of configuring it. I bet some would recommend looking at OpenBSD or FreeBSD as well.</p><p>Either way, you would definitely have a more flexible solution that any canned product will provide you with.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just pick up your favorite Linux distribution and get back to me with your requirements .
I think Linux can easily do what you need almost out of the box .
It is only a matter of configuring it .
I bet some would recommend looking at OpenBSD or FreeBSD as well.Either way , you would definitely have a more flexible solution that any canned product will provide you with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just pick up your favorite Linux distribution and get back to me with your requirements.
I think Linux can easily do what you need almost out of the box.
It is only a matter of configuring it.
I bet some would recommend looking at OpenBSD or FreeBSD as well.Either way, you would definitely have a more flexible solution that any canned product will provide you with.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30778074</id>
	<title>Astaro Security Gateway is what you need</title>
	<author>Apple God</author>
	<datestamp>1263566280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>FAR cheaper than Cisco and not a self sustaining ecosystem like Cisco.  (Cisco charges tech/company to learn, tech/company charges you for the device that you cannot configure, tech/compay charges you etc, it never ends cause you can't configure them) The reason that companies LOVE to sell Cisco gear is they will have someone on staff to configure it, and that is where they make their money.  Not many people have the ability to configure Cisco routers, web interface on them or not.<br>SO, if you purchase one, you will be forever paying when something needs to be changed or upgraded.  The only people that buy Cisco gear anymore are those that are afraid to be responsible for their choice.  As a consultant I have heard the speech several times, CIsco must be the best, its what everyone uses.<br>Let those that truly understand their job be the ones to lead the way out of the world we live in where companies like Cisco get you from every end after the purchase.<br>From a technical standpoint, they do have a good product that functions well, there is no reason for it to be so difficult to manage though.<br>I do miss the days of Novell when a GUI was not on every computer, but thats not where the industry is now, everything has a GUI to configure it<br>Yes, I can trudge my way through a Cisco, and yes it takes me much longer than someone who is a CCNA or just had training on a specific router.<br>I can do it much faster in an interface like an Astaro.<br>I also put in a vote for FreeBSD if Astaro is not an option for you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>FAR cheaper than Cisco and not a self sustaining ecosystem like Cisco .
( Cisco charges tech/company to learn , tech/company charges you for the device that you can not configure , tech/compay charges you etc , it never ends cause you ca n't configure them ) The reason that companies LOVE to sell Cisco gear is they will have someone on staff to configure it , and that is where they make their money .
Not many people have the ability to configure Cisco routers , web interface on them or not.SO , if you purchase one , you will be forever paying when something needs to be changed or upgraded .
The only people that buy Cisco gear anymore are those that are afraid to be responsible for their choice .
As a consultant I have heard the speech several times , CIsco must be the best , its what everyone uses.Let those that truly understand their job be the ones to lead the way out of the world we live in where companies like Cisco get you from every end after the purchase.From a technical standpoint , they do have a good product that functions well , there is no reason for it to be so difficult to manage though.I do miss the days of Novell when a GUI was not on every computer , but thats not where the industry is now , everything has a GUI to configure itYes , I can trudge my way through a Cisco , and yes it takes me much longer than someone who is a CCNA or just had training on a specific router.I can do it much faster in an interface like an Astaro.I also put in a vote for FreeBSD if Astaro is not an option for you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FAR cheaper than Cisco and not a self sustaining ecosystem like Cisco.
(Cisco charges tech/company to learn, tech/company charges you for the device that you cannot configure, tech/compay charges you etc, it never ends cause you can't configure them) The reason that companies LOVE to sell Cisco gear is they will have someone on staff to configure it, and that is where they make their money.
Not many people have the ability to configure Cisco routers, web interface on them or not.SO, if you purchase one, you will be forever paying when something needs to be changed or upgraded.
The only people that buy Cisco gear anymore are those that are afraid to be responsible for their choice.
As a consultant I have heard the speech several times, CIsco must be the best, its what everyone uses.Let those that truly understand their job be the ones to lead the way out of the world we live in where companies like Cisco get you from every end after the purchase.From a technical standpoint, they do have a good product that functions well, there is no reason for it to be so difficult to manage though.I do miss the days of Novell when a GUI was not on every computer, but thats not where the industry is now, everything has a GUI to configure itYes, I can trudge my way through a Cisco, and yes it takes me much longer than someone who is a CCNA or just had training on a specific router.I can do it much faster in an interface like an Astaro.I also put in a vote for FreeBSD if Astaro is not an option for you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771666</id>
	<title>Not speaking from experience...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263467040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe this will work for you.  On my linux box, I entered `yum search ospf` and it came back with a package called 'quagga'.  I did a Google search and found they have a <a href="http://www.quagga.net/" title="quagga.net" rel="nofollow">website</a> [quagga.net].  According to the website, they support OSPF and BGP.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe this will work for you .
On my linux box , I entered ` yum search ospf ` and it came back with a package called 'quagga' .
I did a Google search and found they have a website [ quagga.net ] .
According to the website , they support OSPF and BGP .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe this will work for you.
On my linux box, I entered `yum search ospf` and it came back with a package called 'quagga'.
I did a Google search and found they have a website [quagga.net].
According to the website, they support OSPF and BGP.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30784434</id>
	<title>Re:Hire someone who knows what they are doing.</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1263552240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, I believe he's unqualified because EVERYTHING in this thread that he has posted tells me he doesn't know anything about what he's doing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , I believe he 's unqualified because EVERYTHING in this thread that he has posted tells me he does n't know anything about what he 's doing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, I believe he's unqualified because EVERYTHING in this thread that he has posted tells me he doesn't know anything about what he's doing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771436</id>
	<title>m0n0wall is a great BSD distro</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263466080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't understand why Linux is a requirement but the FreeBSD based <a href="http://m0n0.ch/wall/" title="m0n0.ch" rel="nofollow">m0n0wall</a> [m0n0.ch] does a great job for many uses.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't understand why Linux is a requirement but the FreeBSD based m0n0wall [ m0n0.ch ] does a great job for many uses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't understand why Linux is a requirement but the FreeBSD based m0n0wall [m0n0.ch] does a great job for many uses.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30780520</id>
	<title>Re:Mutually exclusive</title>
	<author>Bert64</author>
	<datestamp>1263578940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What you consider "commercial grade" isn't what it used to be... Much of the commercial offerings are based around generic x86 hardware, and sometimes the hardware is of a lower standard than you'd get by buying a regular server from one of the well known vendors...<br>Look at the current Cisco ASA firewalls - the lower end models use celeron cpus, processors which are designed for use in cheap desktops.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What you consider " commercial grade " is n't what it used to be... Much of the commercial offerings are based around generic x86 hardware , and sometimes the hardware is of a lower standard than you 'd get by buying a regular server from one of the well known vendors...Look at the current Cisco ASA firewalls - the lower end models use celeron cpus , processors which are designed for use in cheap desktops .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What you consider "commercial grade" isn't what it used to be... Much of the commercial offerings are based around generic x86 hardware, and sometimes the hardware is of a lower standard than you'd get by buying a regular server from one of the well known vendors...Look at the current Cisco ASA firewalls - the lower end models use celeron cpus, processors which are designed for use in cheap desktops.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30773250</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772152</id>
	<title>Re:Mutually exclusive</title>
	<author>BobMcD</author>
	<datestamp>1263469500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>To my humble opinion, a good ISP needs to have good reliable equipement. Sometimes, out of the box routers are better because they don't have moving parts and their firmware could be more stable than a full-blown OS (even if it is Linux).</p></div><p>If not for this reason, why do you suppose the question got asked?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>To my humble opinion , a good ISP needs to have good reliable equipement .
Sometimes , out of the box routers are better because they do n't have moving parts and their firmware could be more stable than a full-blown OS ( even if it is Linux ) .If not for this reason , why do you suppose the question got asked ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To my humble opinion, a good ISP needs to have good reliable equipement.
Sometimes, out of the box routers are better because they don't have moving parts and their firmware could be more stable than a full-blown OS (even if it is Linux).If not for this reason, why do you suppose the question got asked?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771598</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30778968</id>
	<title>Potential solution in an iso called IPCOP</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263571260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Have you tried IPCOP? http://www.ipcop.org</p><p>The web site isn't flashy, but stick the disk onto a machine with 2 network cards and you've got yourself something that can handle a hell of a lot more than dd-wrt on a Linksys!</p><p>The GUI isn't bad either.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Have you tried IPCOP ?
http : //www.ipcop.orgThe web site is n't flashy , but stick the disk onto a machine with 2 network cards and you 've got yourself something that can handle a hell of a lot more than dd-wrt on a Linksys ! The GUI is n't bad either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have you tried IPCOP?
http://www.ipcop.orgThe web site isn't flashy, but stick the disk onto a machine with 2 network cards and you've got yourself something that can handle a hell of a lot more than dd-wrt on a Linksys!The GUI isn't bad either.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30783672</id>
	<title>Re:Erm... Requirements?</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1263549060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know this is blasphemy but<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p><p>Instead of pulling together a bunch of half assed incomplete kludges of projects and spending a fortune getting a bunch of dirty socially inept hippies from slashdot making it work right and then keeping it working, he could just get a clue and buy something ready made for his purpose.</p><p>Hardware and software are such a tiny amount of the overhead of running an ISP that you are in fact a complete fucking idiot if you're making your choices on hardware and software based on cost.  Any ISP worth its salt will pay for its hardware and software with a months gross income, even if you buy the most expensive item suited to that purpose.  Customer support and bandwidth is where you pay.  The land for your towers and the buildings for your data centers are your costs.</p><p>Equipment isn't shit in your budget.</p><p>As I stated before, the best thing this guy can do is find someone who actually know what the hell they are doing to build it out, otherwise he's going to spend 2 or 3 times as much to use 'cheap' alternatives.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know this is blasphemy but ...Instead of pulling together a bunch of half assed incomplete kludges of projects and spending a fortune getting a bunch of dirty socially inept hippies from slashdot making it work right and then keeping it working , he could just get a clue and buy something ready made for his purpose.Hardware and software are such a tiny amount of the overhead of running an ISP that you are in fact a complete fucking idiot if you 're making your choices on hardware and software based on cost .
Any ISP worth its salt will pay for its hardware and software with a months gross income , even if you buy the most expensive item suited to that purpose .
Customer support and bandwidth is where you pay .
The land for your towers and the buildings for your data centers are your costs.Equipment is n't shit in your budget.As I stated before , the best thing this guy can do is find someone who actually know what the hell they are doing to build it out , otherwise he 's going to spend 2 or 3 times as much to use 'cheap ' alternatives .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know this is blasphemy but ...Instead of pulling together a bunch of half assed incomplete kludges of projects and spending a fortune getting a bunch of dirty socially inept hippies from slashdot making it work right and then keeping it working, he could just get a clue and buy something ready made for his purpose.Hardware and software are such a tiny amount of the overhead of running an ISP that you are in fact a complete fucking idiot if you're making your choices on hardware and software based on cost.
Any ISP worth its salt will pay for its hardware and software with a months gross income, even if you buy the most expensive item suited to that purpose.
Customer support and bandwidth is where you pay.
The land for your towers and the buildings for your data centers are your costs.Equipment isn't shit in your budget.As I stated before, the best thing this guy can do is find someone who actually know what the hell they are doing to build it out, otherwise he's going to spend 2 or 3 times as much to use 'cheap' alternatives.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771368</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30773296</id>
	<title>Re:Screw Linux</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263475140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm also using PFSense on my small business (20-30 users + VPN) and it performs very well with quite modest hardware (Athlon XP). I haven't used the multi-wan feature yet (plan to) but from what I can see at the forums, it seems to work descently. Also, since he mentions that he has no problem paying a modest fee, he could have the Commercial support and perhaps even throw a bounty on a feature he misses or a bug that needs fixing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm also using PFSense on my small business ( 20-30 users + VPN ) and it performs very well with quite modest hardware ( Athlon XP ) .
I have n't used the multi-wan feature yet ( plan to ) but from what I can see at the forums , it seems to work descently .
Also , since he mentions that he has no problem paying a modest fee , he could have the Commercial support and perhaps even throw a bounty on a feature he misses or a bug that needs fixing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm also using PFSense on my small business (20-30 users + VPN) and it performs very well with quite modest hardware (Athlon XP).
I haven't used the multi-wan feature yet (plan to) but from what I can see at the forums, it seems to work descently.
Also, since he mentions that he has no problem paying a modest fee, he could have the Commercial support and perhaps even throw a bounty on a feature he misses or a bug that needs fixing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772930</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30773076</id>
	<title>Go 2nd Hand Cisco</title>
	<author>Niobe</author>
	<datestamp>1263473820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why bother with a high-maintainance OS system for a router?? Just buy a refurbed Cisco from a reseller. You won't get support from Cisco but you can buy the router and a spare second-hand for  5\% of the original cost.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why bother with a high-maintainance OS system for a router ? ?
Just buy a refurbed Cisco from a reseller .
You wo n't get support from Cisco but you can buy the router and a spare second-hand for 5 \ % of the original cost .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why bother with a high-maintainance OS system for a router??
Just buy a refurbed Cisco from a reseller.
You won't get support from Cisco but you can buy the router and a spare second-hand for  5\% of the original cost.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771832</id>
	<title>Re:Mutually exclusive</title>
	<author>clarkn0va</author>
	<datestamp>1263467940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>No reason a person can't run linux (or a half-dozen other unix-derived router platforms) on good quality, no moving parts hardware.</htmltext>
<tokenext>No reason a person ca n't run linux ( or a half-dozen other unix-derived router platforms ) on good quality , no moving parts hardware .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No reason a person can't run linux (or a half-dozen other unix-derived router platforms) on good quality, no moving parts hardware.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771598</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30773792</id>
	<title>Re:Vyatta</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263477960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>vyatta is great kit</htmltext>
<tokenext>vyatta is great kit</tokentext>
<sentencetext>vyatta is great kit</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772980</id>
	<title>I vote for IPCop</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263473400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://ipcop.org</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //ipcop.org</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://ipcop.org</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30774424</id>
	<title>Re:Are you serious, or just killing time?</title>
	<author>fibrewire</author>
	<datestamp>1263482580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, i am trying to build an ISP, so... all of the above?</p><p>Subscriber equipment - Ubiquiti NanoStation M5</p><p>Access Point Equipment - three Ubiquiti Rocket M5 on 19db 120 sectors -&gt; Mikrotik RB1000 for routing -&gt; Rocket M5 for backhaul</p><p>Distribution facility - bonded FiOS links 100Mbit down / 60 Mbit up into ? (trying lots of stuff)</p><p>only 130 customers at this point - free access until i get the bugs worked out</p><p>FiOS will be upgraded to multiple DS3 as soon as i have something workable</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , i am trying to build an ISP , so... all of the above ? Subscriber equipment - Ubiquiti NanoStation M5Access Point Equipment - three Ubiquiti Rocket M5 on 19db 120 sectors - &gt; Mikrotik RB1000 for routing - &gt; Rocket M5 for backhaulDistribution facility - bonded FiOS links 100Mbit down / 60 Mbit up into ?
( trying lots of stuff ) only 130 customers at this point - free access until i get the bugs worked outFiOS will be upgraded to multiple DS3 as soon as i have something workable</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, i am trying to build an ISP, so... all of the above?Subscriber equipment - Ubiquiti NanoStation M5Access Point Equipment - three Ubiquiti Rocket M5 on 19db 120 sectors -&gt; Mikrotik RB1000 for routing -&gt; Rocket M5 for backhaulDistribution facility - bonded FiOS links 100Mbit down / 60 Mbit up into ?
(trying lots of stuff)only 130 customers at this point - free access until i get the bugs worked outFiOS will be upgraded to multiple DS3 as soon as i have something workable</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771434</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772072</id>
	<title>Re:Hire someone who knows what they are doing.</title>
	<author>nine-times</author>
	<datestamp>1263469140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think you have a good point, but I don't necessarily agree.  First, we don't know what market the submitter plans on operating in or who his clientele are.  We don't know what his experience is, how much resources he has, or exactly what level of service he intends to offer.  Like the guy who criticized the submitter for refusing to buy a $300k Cisco router, I think you committed a common mistake in thinking that IT is just a series of 1-size-fits-all solutions, and that if you going to use the "right" solution to each problem, you shouldn't bother.
</p><p>The era of entrepreneurship and hacking things together isn't over, and it probably never will be.  Our tools and hacks may become more advanced, but hopefully there will always be people trying out new techniques and business models, testing new start-up technology, and finding different ways of accomplishing the same goals.  The answer isn't always to pay an expensive expert or to use established tech.
</p><p>As for this:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>You could get by with this in the late 90s, but when you're going to compete with cell phone companies, cable companies and standard POTS companies, you probably need to have a bit of a clue.</p></div><p>That's true, but neither my phone company nor my cable company provide wireless access where I live.  Cell phone companies provide wireless, but it's pretty spotty and slow, and I live in NYC.  There are plenty of areas in the US where no service is available except through dialup.  Obviously these large companies aren't interested in competing in all markets, so if you come up with a business model and think you can make it work, then I say go for it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you have a good point , but I do n't necessarily agree .
First , we do n't know what market the submitter plans on operating in or who his clientele are .
We do n't know what his experience is , how much resources he has , or exactly what level of service he intends to offer .
Like the guy who criticized the submitter for refusing to buy a $ 300k Cisco router , I think you committed a common mistake in thinking that IT is just a series of 1-size-fits-all solutions , and that if you going to use the " right " solution to each problem , you should n't bother .
The era of entrepreneurship and hacking things together is n't over , and it probably never will be .
Our tools and hacks may become more advanced , but hopefully there will always be people trying out new techniques and business models , testing new start-up technology , and finding different ways of accomplishing the same goals .
The answer is n't always to pay an expensive expert or to use established tech .
As for this : You could get by with this in the late 90s , but when you 're going to compete with cell phone companies , cable companies and standard POTS companies , you probably need to have a bit of a clue.That 's true , but neither my phone company nor my cable company provide wireless access where I live .
Cell phone companies provide wireless , but it 's pretty spotty and slow , and I live in NYC .
There are plenty of areas in the US where no service is available except through dialup .
Obviously these large companies are n't interested in competing in all markets , so if you come up with a business model and think you can make it work , then I say go for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you have a good point, but I don't necessarily agree.
First, we don't know what market the submitter plans on operating in or who his clientele are.
We don't know what his experience is, how much resources he has, or exactly what level of service he intends to offer.
Like the guy who criticized the submitter for refusing to buy a $300k Cisco router, I think you committed a common mistake in thinking that IT is just a series of 1-size-fits-all solutions, and that if you going to use the "right" solution to each problem, you shouldn't bother.
The era of entrepreneurship and hacking things together isn't over, and it probably never will be.
Our tools and hacks may become more advanced, but hopefully there will always be people trying out new techniques and business models, testing new start-up technology, and finding different ways of accomplishing the same goals.
The answer isn't always to pay an expensive expert or to use established tech.
As for this:You could get by with this in the late 90s, but when you're going to compete with cell phone companies, cable companies and standard POTS companies, you probably need to have a bit of a clue.That's true, but neither my phone company nor my cable company provide wireless access where I live.
Cell phone companies provide wireless, but it's pretty spotty and slow, and I live in NYC.
There are plenty of areas in the US where no service is available except through dialup.
Obviously these large companies aren't interested in competing in all markets, so if you come up with a business model and think you can make it work, then I say go for it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771944</id>
	<title>Are you a business ?</title>
	<author>Bork</author>
	<datestamp>1263468540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you are going to be a business, I think your going to need a better business plan first.</p><p>It almost feels like you have this great idea but have not sat down and wrote down exactly what you are going to do and how are you going to get there.  Talk to the small business administration, they have people there that you should talk to first.</p><p>You have selected the hardware before finding the software that will accomplish the task.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you are going to be a business , I think your going to need a better business plan first.It almost feels like you have this great idea but have not sat down and wrote down exactly what you are going to do and how are you going to get there .
Talk to the small business administration , they have people there that you should talk to first.You have selected the hardware before finding the software that will accomplish the task .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you are going to be a business, I think your going to need a better business plan first.It almost feels like you have this great idea but have not sat down and wrote down exactly what you are going to do and how are you going to get there.
Talk to the small business administration, they have people there that you should talk to first.You have selected the hardware before finding the software that will accomplish the task.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30775668</id>
	<title>Re:Ebay is your friend.</title>
	<author>emt377</author>
	<datestamp>1263494760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Totally.  Used Cisco gear is cheap on ebay.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Totally .
Used Cisco gear is cheap on ebay .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Totally.
Used Cisco gear is cheap on ebay.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771740</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30776522</id>
	<title>Alpine Linux</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263549660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://alpinelinux.org/" title="alpinelinux.org" rel="nofollow">Alpine Linux</a> [alpinelinux.org], a small, secure and powerful distro with good quagga/bgpd support.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Alpine Linux [ alpinelinux.org ] , a small , secure and powerful distro with good quagga/bgpd support .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Alpine Linux [alpinelinux.org], a small, secure and powerful distro with good quagga/bgpd support.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30780738</id>
	<title>Re:Step in the right direction</title>
	<author>Bert64</author>
	<datestamp>1263579780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Proxmox is good, i run a small hosting environment and have a pair of HP servers running proxmox, which has clustered storage using DRBD. Normally both servers can load balance, but if one fails the other can take up the load (with resulting performance hit).</p><p>PowerPC handles networking slightly better because it's a little endian architecture, and network packets are little endian encoded... x86 hardware has to reverse the byte order on every send/receive... Also, embedded PPC hardware consumes less power which is why cisco and others use them... Cisco have also used m68k and mips processors in their devices over the years, wouldn't be surprised to see arm processors on their lower end kit.</p><p>Where are you looking to deploy routers? I envisage your setup (in its simplest form) involving a number of AP devices sitting on towers, connected back to a central point where servers and an internet connection reside... Are you talking about the individual access point devices, or the central core routers? And how much traffic do you envisage pushing?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Proxmox is good , i run a small hosting environment and have a pair of HP servers running proxmox , which has clustered storage using DRBD .
Normally both servers can load balance , but if one fails the other can take up the load ( with resulting performance hit ) .PowerPC handles networking slightly better because it 's a little endian architecture , and network packets are little endian encoded... x86 hardware has to reverse the byte order on every send/receive... Also , embedded PPC hardware consumes less power which is why cisco and others use them... Cisco have also used m68k and mips processors in their devices over the years , would n't be surprised to see arm processors on their lower end kit.Where are you looking to deploy routers ?
I envisage your setup ( in its simplest form ) involving a number of AP devices sitting on towers , connected back to a central point where servers and an internet connection reside... Are you talking about the individual access point devices , or the central core routers ?
And how much traffic do you envisage pushing ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Proxmox is good, i run a small hosting environment and have a pair of HP servers running proxmox, which has clustered storage using DRBD.
Normally both servers can load balance, but if one fails the other can take up the load (with resulting performance hit).PowerPC handles networking slightly better because it's a little endian architecture, and network packets are little endian encoded... x86 hardware has to reverse the byte order on every send/receive... Also, embedded PPC hardware consumes less power which is why cisco and others use them... Cisco have also used m68k and mips processors in their devices over the years, wouldn't be surprised to see arm processors on their lower end kit.Where are you looking to deploy routers?
I envisage your setup (in its simplest form) involving a number of AP devices sitting on towers, connected back to a central point where servers and an internet connection reside... Are you talking about the individual access point devices, or the central core routers?
And how much traffic do you envisage pushing?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30773430</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30773350</id>
	<title>been there done that bought the tee shirt</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263475500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I founded and operate a wireless ISP serving about 1000 wireless subscribers, and have my own embedded linux distro inside just about everything. It would be a fair statement to say that linux literally saved our business on more than one occasion, by giving us the tools to overcome manufacturer software bugs, by establishing 'known good' systems of various types, by enabling read-only compact flash based systems running on solar power, by bringing a high level of utility and reliability into the critical parts of the network, by allowing us to make it anything it needed to be.</p><p>As a CPE, my linux distro never lets me down and never puts customers of at risk of 'stone dead - lights on but nobody home', like linksys/netgear/etc always seem to. Never having to tell someone 'just pull the power and plug it back in' for their connectivity is a real saving grace. And when in a business situation, I can equip these customers with connectivity devices that \_do not fail\_ and make us look stupid, while at the same time giving them useful feature sets unavailable in higher end router manufacturer gear (cisco 2621 - excellent hardware with great stabillity, just weak on features I get with dnsmasq, openvpn, tcpdump and others.. trying to diagnose network connectivity issues without tcpdump is just dumb.). Its also never choked and zeroed out it's own flash config for no goddam rason, unlike the previously mentioned low-end consumer devices frequently do. Basically, that consumer stuff puts you at risk and is suicide.</p><p>As a network appliance, linux flings packets just fine and gives you great tools to filer, mangle and generally control how and what it does. The ebtables code is awesome, the iptables stuff is killer, openvpn rocks asses, dnsmasq kills, there's just too many useful and cool things just go right. I have a pppoe server running rp-pppoe + my patches and userspace tools, running for years now and hit with every kind of client side bug and malfunction imaginable, and just keeps trucking along. Freeradius backed up with mysql is sweet as can be, and quagga for distributing my routes internally is just a dream. I have it all on read-only compact flash, so they never write and basiclaly will run until there is a show stopper hardware problem, at which point I will more than likely be able to remove the flash and put it into another machine and away I go.</p><p>There is a lack of management interface, and there is a learning curve to this route, but the upside is very low dollar cost and an attainable level of flexibillity, reliabillity and stabillity you are unlikely to find in any commercial solution anywhere. Cisco IOS is awesome, but you won't power anything that runs it off a 12v battery and solar panel on the side of a mountain and flinging/filtering 20mbps of traffic.</p><p>Good luck.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I founded and operate a wireless ISP serving about 1000 wireless subscribers , and have my own embedded linux distro inside just about everything .
It would be a fair statement to say that linux literally saved our business on more than one occasion , by giving us the tools to overcome manufacturer software bugs , by establishing 'known good ' systems of various types , by enabling read-only compact flash based systems running on solar power , by bringing a high level of utility and reliability into the critical parts of the network , by allowing us to make it anything it needed to be.As a CPE , my linux distro never lets me down and never puts customers of at risk of 'stone dead - lights on but nobody home ' , like linksys/netgear/etc always seem to .
Never having to tell someone 'just pull the power and plug it back in ' for their connectivity is a real saving grace .
And when in a business situation , I can equip these customers with connectivity devices that \ _do not fail \ _ and make us look stupid , while at the same time giving them useful feature sets unavailable in higher end router manufacturer gear ( cisco 2621 - excellent hardware with great stabillity , just weak on features I get with dnsmasq , openvpn , tcpdump and others.. trying to diagnose network connectivity issues without tcpdump is just dumb. ) .
Its also never choked and zeroed out it 's own flash config for no goddam rason , unlike the previously mentioned low-end consumer devices frequently do .
Basically , that consumer stuff puts you at risk and is suicide.As a network appliance , linux flings packets just fine and gives you great tools to filer , mangle and generally control how and what it does .
The ebtables code is awesome , the iptables stuff is killer , openvpn rocks asses , dnsmasq kills , there 's just too many useful and cool things just go right .
I have a pppoe server running rp-pppoe + my patches and userspace tools , running for years now and hit with every kind of client side bug and malfunction imaginable , and just keeps trucking along .
Freeradius backed up with mysql is sweet as can be , and quagga for distributing my routes internally is just a dream .
I have it all on read-only compact flash , so they never write and basiclaly will run until there is a show stopper hardware problem , at which point I will more than likely be able to remove the flash and put it into another machine and away I go.There is a lack of management interface , and there is a learning curve to this route , but the upside is very low dollar cost and an attainable level of flexibillity , reliabillity and stabillity you are unlikely to find in any commercial solution anywhere .
Cisco IOS is awesome , but you wo n't power anything that runs it off a 12v battery and solar panel on the side of a mountain and flinging/filtering 20mbps of traffic.Good luck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I founded and operate a wireless ISP serving about 1000 wireless subscribers, and have my own embedded linux distro inside just about everything.
It would be a fair statement to say that linux literally saved our business on more than one occasion, by giving us the tools to overcome manufacturer software bugs, by establishing 'known good' systems of various types, by enabling read-only compact flash based systems running on solar power, by bringing a high level of utility and reliability into the critical parts of the network, by allowing us to make it anything it needed to be.As a CPE, my linux distro never lets me down and never puts customers of at risk of 'stone dead - lights on but nobody home', like linksys/netgear/etc always seem to.
Never having to tell someone 'just pull the power and plug it back in' for their connectivity is a real saving grace.
And when in a business situation, I can equip these customers with connectivity devices that \_do not fail\_ and make us look stupid, while at the same time giving them useful feature sets unavailable in higher end router manufacturer gear (cisco 2621 - excellent hardware with great stabillity, just weak on features I get with dnsmasq, openvpn, tcpdump and others.. trying to diagnose network connectivity issues without tcpdump is just dumb.).
Its also never choked and zeroed out it's own flash config for no goddam rason, unlike the previously mentioned low-end consumer devices frequently do.
Basically, that consumer stuff puts you at risk and is suicide.As a network appliance, linux flings packets just fine and gives you great tools to filer, mangle and generally control how and what it does.
The ebtables code is awesome, the iptables stuff is killer, openvpn rocks asses, dnsmasq kills, there's just too many useful and cool things just go right.
I have a pppoe server running rp-pppoe + my patches and userspace tools, running for years now and hit with every kind of client side bug and malfunction imaginable, and just keeps trucking along.
Freeradius backed up with mysql is sweet as can be, and quagga for distributing my routes internally is just a dream.
I have it all on read-only compact flash, so they never write and basiclaly will run until there is a show stopper hardware problem, at which point I will more than likely be able to remove the flash and put it into another machine and away I go.There is a lack of management interface, and there is a learning curve to this route, but the upside is very low dollar cost and an attainable level of flexibillity, reliabillity and stabillity you are unlikely to find in any commercial solution anywhere.
Cisco IOS is awesome, but you won't power anything that runs it off a 12v battery and solar panel on the side of a mountain and flinging/filtering 20mbps of traffic.Good luck.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30797504</id>
	<title>You're missing the point.</title>
	<author>cbbs70a2</author>
	<datestamp>1263734820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You're missing the point of what the purpose of a router is. A router is supposed to copy a packet from one interface to another based on certain routing criteria as quickly as possible. That's it. Period. Nothing else. All other services need to be placed elsewhere in the network based on the tiered network model of core, distribution, and edge. Otherwise, you will never have a scalable, redundant network.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're missing the point of what the purpose of a router is .
A router is supposed to copy a packet from one interface to another based on certain routing criteria as quickly as possible .
That 's it .
Period. Nothing else .
All other services need to be placed elsewhere in the network based on the tiered network model of core , distribution , and edge .
Otherwise , you will never have a scalable , redundant network .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're missing the point of what the purpose of a router is.
A router is supposed to copy a packet from one interface to another based on certain routing criteria as quickly as possible.
That's it.
Period. Nothing else.
All other services need to be placed elsewhere in the network based on the tiered network model of core, distribution, and edge.
Otherwise, you will never have a scalable, redundant network.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771534</id>
	<title>Cisco uBR7111 Universal Broadband Router</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263466500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://www.provantage.com/cisco-systems-ubr7111~7CSCR275.htm<br>up to 2000 users for  $8942.32<br>just buy a couple of them with a bunch of linksys wrt54gl's running tomato or tomatovpn and you will be all set.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.provantage.com/cisco-systems-ubr7111 ~ 7CSCR275.htmup to 2000 users for $ 8942.32just buy a couple of them with a bunch of linksys wrt54gl 's running tomato or tomatovpn and you will be all set .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.provantage.com/cisco-systems-ubr7111~7CSCR275.htmup to 2000 users for  $8942.32just buy a couple of them with a bunch of linksys wrt54gl's running tomato or tomatovpn and you will be all set.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771724</id>
	<title>Re:Hire someone who knows what they are doing.</title>
	<author>Em Emalb</author>
	<datestamp>1263467340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The fact that you are asking on slashdot shows that you are not qualified, and what you're going to get back is a bunch of others, who aren't qualified, suggesting all sorts of half assed hacks to do it which will just result in a utterly shitty service overall.</i></p><p>Dude, don't shit on a well-known slashdot tradition!  How dare you!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The fact that you are asking on slashdot shows that you are not qualified , and what you 're going to get back is a bunch of others , who are n't qualified , suggesting all sorts of half assed hacks to do it which will just result in a utterly shitty service overall.Dude , do n't shit on a well-known slashdot tradition !
How dare you !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The fact that you are asking on slashdot shows that you are not qualified, and what you're going to get back is a bunch of others, who aren't qualified, suggesting all sorts of half assed hacks to do it which will just result in a utterly shitty service overall.Dude, don't shit on a well-known slashdot tradition!
How dare you!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771434</id>
	<title>Are you serious, or just killing time?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263466080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So Cisco makes billions of dollars a year selling some ungodly expensive, ungodly powerful head end router like devices (not even routers in the IP sense) and somehow you suspect a Linux distribution with the same features is going to unpack itself and be everything you want it to be?  You need to tell us what the rest of your platform looks like if you expect any answers that go beyond 'any linux distribution can act like a router!'.  What subscriber equipment is in use?  How much user control do you need (access on/off vs. bandwidth filtering, etc.)  Details, details, details.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So Cisco makes billions of dollars a year selling some ungodly expensive , ungodly powerful head end router like devices ( not even routers in the IP sense ) and somehow you suspect a Linux distribution with the same features is going to unpack itself and be everything you want it to be ?
You need to tell us what the rest of your platform looks like if you expect any answers that go beyond 'any linux distribution can act like a router ! ' .
What subscriber equipment is in use ?
How much user control do you need ( access on/off vs. bandwidth filtering , etc .
) Details , details , details .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So Cisco makes billions of dollars a year selling some ungodly expensive, ungodly powerful head end router like devices (not even routers in the IP sense) and somehow you suspect a Linux distribution with the same features is going to unpack itself and be everything you want it to be?
You need to tell us what the rest of your platform looks like if you expect any answers that go beyond 'any linux distribution can act like a router!'.
What subscriber equipment is in use?
How much user control do you need (access on/off vs. bandwidth filtering, etc.
)  Details, details, details.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30774644</id>
	<title>Re:Mutually exclusive</title>
	<author>turbidostato</author>
	<datestamp>1263484380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"To my humble opinion, a good ISP needs to have good reliable equipement."</p><p>To my humble opinion, a good ISP needs to have good reliable *service*.</p><p>Ask i.e. Google to learn the difference.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" To my humble opinion , a good ISP needs to have good reliable equipement .
" To my humble opinion , a good ISP needs to have good reliable * service * .Ask i.e .
Google to learn the difference .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"To my humble opinion, a good ISP needs to have good reliable equipement.
"To my humble opinion, a good ISP needs to have good reliable *service*.Ask i.e.
Google to learn the difference.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771598</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30776128</id>
	<title>Re:Mutually exclusive</title>
	<author>Xenna</author>
	<datestamp>1263587580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>These guys:</p><p><a href="http://www.applianceshop.eu/" title="applianceshop.eu">http://www.applianceshop.eu/</a> [applianceshop.eu]</p><p>Sell embedded systems with monowall/pfsense preloaded.</p><p>Extremely easy to use and reliable.<br>I use a pfsense one at home, no idea how things would scale...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>These guys : http : //www.applianceshop.eu/ [ applianceshop.eu ] Sell embedded systems with monowall/pfsense preloaded.Extremely easy to use and reliable.I use a pfsense one at home , no idea how things would scale.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>These guys:http://www.applianceshop.eu/ [applianceshop.eu]Sell embedded systems with monowall/pfsense preloaded.Extremely easy to use and reliable.I use a pfsense one at home, no idea how things would scale...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771840</id>
	<title>Re:Try Vyatta</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263468000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am running Vyatta and love it.  It has a very easy to use CL interface and is very quick and resource light.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am running Vyatta and love it .
It has a very easy to use CL interface and is very quick and resource light .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am running Vyatta and love it.
It has a very easy to use CL interface and is very quick and resource light.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771564</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772772</id>
	<title>Re:Are you serious, or just killing time?</title>
	<author>Dadoo</author>
	<datestamp>1263472320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>If he's only passing 80Mb/s through to his upstream, then hey, go with Linux. If he's passing 800Mb/s, then he needs serious equipment and shouldn't even consider going with a PC based Linux machine.</p></div></blockquote><p>I'll agree with you, in principle, but not on the numbers. You can get a decent machine (~2GHz, dual-core, 4GB memory) for less than $1000, today. I'd be surprised if that couldn't handle at least 3-4 gigabits, total throughput. Heck, I'm using a 10-year-old, 350Mhz, Pentium 2 workstation as our Internet router, here at work, and the latency it adds to ping times isn't measurable.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If he 's only passing 80Mb/s through to his upstream , then hey , go with Linux .
If he 's passing 800Mb/s , then he needs serious equipment and should n't even consider going with a PC based Linux machine.I 'll agree with you , in principle , but not on the numbers .
You can get a decent machine ( ~ 2GHz , dual-core , 4GB memory ) for less than $ 1000 , today .
I 'd be surprised if that could n't handle at least 3-4 gigabits , total throughput .
Heck , I 'm using a 10-year-old , 350Mhz , Pentium 2 workstation as our Internet router , here at work , and the latency it adds to ping times is n't measurable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If he's only passing 80Mb/s through to his upstream, then hey, go with Linux.
If he's passing 800Mb/s, then he needs serious equipment and shouldn't even consider going with a PC based Linux machine.I'll agree with you, in principle, but not on the numbers.
You can get a decent machine (~2GHz, dual-core, 4GB memory) for less than $1000, today.
I'd be surprised if that couldn't handle at least 3-4 gigabits, total throughput.
Heck, I'm using a 10-year-old, 350Mhz, Pentium 2 workstation as our Internet router, here at work, and the latency it adds to ping times isn't measurable.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30776866</id>
	<title>vyatta -- what is it worth?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263554040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I looked at Vyatta, but didn't see what it offered that quagga didn't. There was also no way to install it from within an existing debian distro, even though it's based on debian. Vyatta corporate sales people couldn't provide me any benchmarks against other routing solutions, saying they don't believe in benchmarks. Not really the best way to make a sale. So they didn't. But perhaps someone here can offer some reason to use it instead of deb/quagga.</p><p>As far as hardware goes, when you are building an x86 based router, make sure you have good ethernet cards. Run GigE if possible, even if you aren't running that much data through it, you'll appreciate the lower latency. Use reliable equipment - parity ram and lots of it, raid, well-tested, server grade boards (and not some cheapo $100 desktop board). Better to use an old xeon over a newer CPU that doesn't have much cache. Run as little extra software as possible on the router...i.e. have another server for firewall / IDS / monitoring. Keep it simp,e ya know? Of course, if rack space is costly you might want to reconsider that special-purpose setup. Document your config files by using comments, with your initials and the date. Every route should have comments indicating what it is for.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I looked at Vyatta , but did n't see what it offered that quagga did n't .
There was also no way to install it from within an existing debian distro , even though it 's based on debian .
Vyatta corporate sales people could n't provide me any benchmarks against other routing solutions , saying they do n't believe in benchmarks .
Not really the best way to make a sale .
So they did n't .
But perhaps someone here can offer some reason to use it instead of deb/quagga.As far as hardware goes , when you are building an x86 based router , make sure you have good ethernet cards .
Run GigE if possible , even if you are n't running that much data through it , you 'll appreciate the lower latency .
Use reliable equipment - parity ram and lots of it , raid , well-tested , server grade boards ( and not some cheapo $ 100 desktop board ) .
Better to use an old xeon over a newer CPU that does n't have much cache .
Run as little extra software as possible on the router...i.e .
have another server for firewall / IDS / monitoring .
Keep it simp,e ya know ?
Of course , if rack space is costly you might want to reconsider that special-purpose setup .
Document your config files by using comments , with your initials and the date .
Every route should have comments indicating what it is for .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I looked at Vyatta, but didn't see what it offered that quagga didn't.
There was also no way to install it from within an existing debian distro, even though it's based on debian.
Vyatta corporate sales people couldn't provide me any benchmarks against other routing solutions, saying they don't believe in benchmarks.
Not really the best way to make a sale.
So they didn't.
But perhaps someone here can offer some reason to use it instead of deb/quagga.As far as hardware goes, when you are building an x86 based router, make sure you have good ethernet cards.
Run GigE if possible, even if you aren't running that much data through it, you'll appreciate the lower latency.
Use reliable equipment - parity ram and lots of it, raid, well-tested, server grade boards (and not some cheapo $100 desktop board).
Better to use an old xeon over a newer CPU that doesn't have much cache.
Run as little extra software as possible on the router...i.e.
have another server for firewall / IDS / monitoring.
Keep it simp,e ya know?
Of course, if rack space is costly you might want to reconsider that special-purpose setup.
Document your config files by using comments, with your initials and the date.
Every route should have comments indicating what it is for.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771854</id>
	<title>ClearOS</title>
	<author>darp</author>
	<datestamp>1263468000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I use pfSense and it works reasonably well. I was looking also for something more sophisticated. ClearOS (http://www.clearfoundation.com/) looks like nice judging the screen shots but I haven't had a chance to try it. Did anyone tried ClearOS? feedback?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I use pfSense and it works reasonably well .
I was looking also for something more sophisticated .
ClearOS ( http : //www.clearfoundation.com/ ) looks like nice judging the screen shots but I have n't had a chance to try it .
Did anyone tried ClearOS ?
feedback ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I use pfSense and it works reasonably well.
I was looking also for something more sophisticated.
ClearOS (http://www.clearfoundation.com/) looks like nice judging the screen shots but I haven't had a chance to try it.
Did anyone tried ClearOS?
feedback?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30848856</id>
	<title>The real question</title>
	<author>rootforce</author>
	<datestamp>1264102140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The real question you should be asking yourself is if you really want to get into the wireless ISP game. It is pretty late in the game at this point with CLEAR rolling out WiMax service(yes I have heard the negative reviews), docsis 3 and fiber to the home solutions becoming more prevalent. It is a rough time to be getting started.

That being said I agree with some of the previous posters that your core equipment should really be Cisco. Think used 6500s and 7200s. I know that a 6500 with sup32s can handle multiple hundreds of mbps of traffic for thousands of users, but it depends on your usage scenario. In this case I would keep the Mikrotiks at the edge as it is quite the mature platform(not that I haven't spent countless nights trying to figure out why it behaves the way it does).

If you absolutely must run open source for your core, investigate Vyatta on high end hardware. It is not as mature, but the community is very good and helpful. You might also consider the zebra project for just straight routing.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The real question you should be asking yourself is if you really want to get into the wireless ISP game .
It is pretty late in the game at this point with CLEAR rolling out WiMax service ( yes I have heard the negative reviews ) , docsis 3 and fiber to the home solutions becoming more prevalent .
It is a rough time to be getting started .
That being said I agree with some of the previous posters that your core equipment should really be Cisco .
Think used 6500s and 7200s .
I know that a 6500 with sup32s can handle multiple hundreds of mbps of traffic for thousands of users , but it depends on your usage scenario .
In this case I would keep the Mikrotiks at the edge as it is quite the mature platform ( not that I have n't spent countless nights trying to figure out why it behaves the way it does ) .
If you absolutely must run open source for your core , investigate Vyatta on high end hardware .
It is not as mature , but the community is very good and helpful .
You might also consider the zebra project for just straight routing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The real question you should be asking yourself is if you really want to get into the wireless ISP game.
It is pretty late in the game at this point with CLEAR rolling out WiMax service(yes I have heard the negative reviews), docsis 3 and fiber to the home solutions becoming more prevalent.
It is a rough time to be getting started.
That being said I agree with some of the previous posters that your core equipment should really be Cisco.
Think used 6500s and 7200s.
I know that a 6500 with sup32s can handle multiple hundreds of mbps of traffic for thousands of users, but it depends on your usage scenario.
In this case I would keep the Mikrotiks at the edge as it is quite the mature platform(not that I haven't spent countless nights trying to figure out why it behaves the way it does).
If you absolutely must run open source for your core, investigate Vyatta on high end hardware.
It is not as mature, but the community is very good and helpful.
You might also consider the zebra project for just straight routing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30773402</id>
	<title>Simon Lok's AirLok</title>
	<author>demerson3</author>
	<datestamp>1263475680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The need reminds me of this guy: <a href="http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2004/1101/064.html" title="forbes.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2004/1101/064.html</a> [forbes.com]
But... never heard anything about him since 2004.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The need reminds me of this guy : http : //www.forbes.com/forbes/2004/1101/064.html [ forbes.com ] But... never heard anything about him since 2004 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The need reminds me of this guy: http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2004/1101/064.html [forbes.com]
But... never heard anything about him since 2004.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30775728</id>
	<title>Re:Are you serious, or just killing time?</title>
	<author>atamido</author>
	<datestamp>1263495660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The "same features"? You mean like ASICs that forward the data with low latency once the route is established? Yep, Linux is going to somehow magically add those to your computer, and that's one of the reasons people pay the extra money for Cisco over some old P3 tower PC and a CD-ROM with a penguin on it. Another is that they fit nicely in a rack.</p></div><p>A lot of router equipment is essentially an x86 PC.  Add on cards are often just PCI or PCIe cards.  You'd be surprised how commodity a lot of that equipment is. At least, for a big part of the mid range stuff.</p><p>Granted it's all specially chosen hardware and custom firmwared, plus Cisco IOS is a heavily developed and mature OS specifically written for routing, so you're not going to see anywhere near the same performance with some random Linux whitebox system.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The " same features " ?
You mean like ASICs that forward the data with low latency once the route is established ?
Yep , Linux is going to somehow magically add those to your computer , and that 's one of the reasons people pay the extra money for Cisco over some old P3 tower PC and a CD-ROM with a penguin on it .
Another is that they fit nicely in a rack.A lot of router equipment is essentially an x86 PC .
Add on cards are often just PCI or PCIe cards .
You 'd be surprised how commodity a lot of that equipment is .
At least , for a big part of the mid range stuff.Granted it 's all specially chosen hardware and custom firmwared , plus Cisco IOS is a heavily developed and mature OS specifically written for routing , so you 're not going to see anywhere near the same performance with some random Linux whitebox system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The "same features"?
You mean like ASICs that forward the data with low latency once the route is established?
Yep, Linux is going to somehow magically add those to your computer, and that's one of the reasons people pay the extra money for Cisco over some old P3 tower PC and a CD-ROM with a penguin on it.
Another is that they fit nicely in a rack.A lot of router equipment is essentially an x86 PC.
Add on cards are often just PCI or PCIe cards.
You'd be surprised how commodity a lot of that equipment is.
At least, for a big part of the mid range stuff.Granted it's all specially chosen hardware and custom firmwared, plus Cisco IOS is a heavily developed and mature OS specifically written for routing, so you're not going to see anywhere near the same performance with some random Linux whitebox system.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772018</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30774368</id>
	<title>Correct question?</title>
	<author>Runaway1956</author>
	<datestamp>1263482100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Alright - I read your question, then a couple responses - but it isn't clear here that you're asking the question correctly.  Humor me for a moment, then decide whether you asked the right question.</p><p>You have access to the web, with a hardware router behind the modem.  That hardware router services both wireless and wired LANs, right?</p><p>You want to set up a router behind that router?  You still won't be able to monitor traffic going through that hardware router.  You need to put your *nix router between the modem and the hardware router, so that you become the gateway for all traffic going to and from the internet.</p><p>Of course, that is still not satisfactory if you wish to monitor traffic within the LAN.  For that, you want to eliminate the hardware router entirely.  Install the hardware to make your *nix router serve the WIFI and the wired LAN, and eliminate that hardware router entirely.</p><p>You can only monitor and control traffic that is being gated through your router, so you want it ALL to be routed through your box!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Alright - I read your question , then a couple responses - but it is n't clear here that you 're asking the question correctly .
Humor me for a moment , then decide whether you asked the right question.You have access to the web , with a hardware router behind the modem .
That hardware router services both wireless and wired LANs , right ? You want to set up a router behind that router ?
You still wo n't be able to monitor traffic going through that hardware router .
You need to put your * nix router between the modem and the hardware router , so that you become the gateway for all traffic going to and from the internet.Of course , that is still not satisfactory if you wish to monitor traffic within the LAN .
For that , you want to eliminate the hardware router entirely .
Install the hardware to make your * nix router serve the WIFI and the wired LAN , and eliminate that hardware router entirely.You can only monitor and control traffic that is being gated through your router , so you want it ALL to be routed through your box !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Alright - I read your question, then a couple responses - but it isn't clear here that you're asking the question correctly.
Humor me for a moment, then decide whether you asked the right question.You have access to the web, with a hardware router behind the modem.
That hardware router services both wireless and wired LANs, right?You want to set up a router behind that router?
You still won't be able to monitor traffic going through that hardware router.
You need to put your *nix router between the modem and the hardware router, so that you become the gateway for all traffic going to and from the internet.Of course, that is still not satisfactory if you wish to monitor traffic within the LAN.
For that, you want to eliminate the hardware router entirely.
Install the hardware to make your *nix router serve the WIFI and the wired LAN, and eliminate that hardware router entirely.You can only monitor and control traffic that is being gated through your router, so you want it ALL to be routed through your box!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771334</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30776490</id>
	<title>Re:Be more specific!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263549240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was looking at the Soekris boxes.  Ick.  For approximately 200 dollars (that's for their 300-500mhz bare bones box) you could buy a bunch of old pentiums and slap a bunch of pci network cards in them.  Soekris boxes are overpriced if you are going for bang for buck.  Nice plug though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was looking at the Soekris boxes .
Ick. For approximately 200 dollars ( that 's for their 300-500mhz bare bones box ) you could buy a bunch of old pentiums and slap a bunch of pci network cards in them .
Soekris boxes are overpriced if you are going for bang for buck .
Nice plug though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was looking at the Soekris boxes.
Ick.  For approximately 200 dollars (that's for their 300-500mhz bare bones box) you could buy a bunch of old pentiums and slap a bunch of pci network cards in them.
Soekris boxes are overpriced if you are going for bang for buck.
Nice plug though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771464</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30774090</id>
	<title>Re:Mutually exclusive</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263480120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>An important point of note here: pfSense is a firewall, not a router.  Yes, it has routing functionality, but it is designed to be a firewall and doesn't have support for the kinds of routing functionality that the original poster probably needs.</p><p>pfSense, however, rocks as a firewall.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>An important point of note here : pfSense is a firewall , not a router .
Yes , it has routing functionality , but it is designed to be a firewall and does n't have support for the kinds of routing functionality that the original poster probably needs.pfSense , however , rocks as a firewall .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An important point of note here: pfSense is a firewall, not a router.
Yes, it has routing functionality, but it is designed to be a firewall and doesn't have support for the kinds of routing functionality that the original poster probably needs.pfSense, however, rocks as a firewall.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30778042</id>
	<title>Re:Are you serious, or just killing time?</title>
	<author>cheekyboy</author>
	<datestamp>1263566100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You gota admit though, any $300 PC running linux can outdo a $3000 cisco router.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You gota admit though , any $ 300 PC running linux can outdo a $ 3000 cisco router .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You gota admit though, any $300 PC running linux can outdo a $3000 cisco router.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771434</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30773854</id>
	<title>Re:Hire someone who knows what they are doing.</title>
	<author>tkjtkj</author>
	<datestamp>1263478260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Rude, but true.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Rude , but true .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Rude, but true.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772146</id>
	<title>Re:Hire someone who knows what they are doing.</title>
	<author>TerribleNews</author>
	<datestamp>1263469500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I disagree, wholeheartedly. The secret ingredient to a successful business is elbow grease. The fact that this person has asked slashdot this question is not a good indicator of success one way or the other. The important thing is whether this person will be able to take a significant number of the suggestions provided and give'em the old college try.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I disagree , wholeheartedly .
The secret ingredient to a successful business is elbow grease .
The fact that this person has asked slashdot this question is not a good indicator of success one way or the other .
The important thing is whether this person will be able to take a significant number of the suggestions provided and give'em the old college try .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I disagree, wholeheartedly.
The secret ingredient to a successful business is elbow grease.
The fact that this person has asked slashdot this question is not a good indicator of success one way or the other.
The important thing is whether this person will be able to take a significant number of the suggestions provided and give'em the old college try.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30773250</id>
	<title>Re:Mutually exclusive</title>
	<author>peektwice</author>
	<datestamp>1263474840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>They are mutually exclusive. The OP is taking the Wal-Mart approach. He's getting some of the cheapest shit possible, and then telling himself that it's just as good as "commercial grade" equipment.</htmltext>
<tokenext>They are mutually exclusive .
The OP is taking the Wal-Mart approach .
He 's getting some of the cheapest shit possible , and then telling himself that it 's just as good as " commercial grade " equipment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They are mutually exclusive.
The OP is taking the Wal-Mart approach.
He's getting some of the cheapest shit possible, and then telling himself that it's just as good as "commercial grade" equipment.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771598</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772024</id>
	<title>Re:Hire someone who knows what they are doing.</title>
	<author>Ichijo</author>
	<datestamp>1263468900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The proper question is: How do I find someone qualified to do this for me?</p></div></blockquote><p>The problem is, if you ask a Cisco person to do it, you'll get a Cisco solution, even if it isn't the best solution for the task.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The proper question is : How do I find someone qualified to do this for me ? The problem is , if you ask a Cisco person to do it , you 'll get a Cisco solution , even if it is n't the best solution for the task .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The proper question is: How do I find someone qualified to do this for me?The problem is, if you ask a Cisco person to do it, you'll get a Cisco solution, even if it isn't the best solution for the task.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772128</id>
	<title>OpenBSD 4.7</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263469380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>OpenBSD-current is the way to go.  Excellent routing performance, very strong BGP and OSPF implementations, and BGP MPLS VPN support is almost complete in current too.</p><p>OpenBSD 4.6 has a few significant OSPF bugs that are resolved in current.  Also slightly lower routing performance.</p><p>What are you trying to do that Mikrotik can't do ?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>OpenBSD-current is the way to go .
Excellent routing performance , very strong BGP and OSPF implementations , and BGP MPLS VPN support is almost complete in current too.OpenBSD 4.6 has a few significant OSPF bugs that are resolved in current .
Also slightly lower routing performance.What are you trying to do that Mikrotik ca n't do ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OpenBSD-current is the way to go.
Excellent routing performance, very strong BGP and OSPF implementations, and BGP MPLS VPN support is almost complete in current too.OpenBSD 4.6 has a few significant OSPF bugs that are resolved in current.
Also slightly lower routing performance.What are you trying to do that Mikrotik can't do ?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30773152</id>
	<title>Vyatta</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263474120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What about Vyatta?  It's a good router based on linux and you can install it on any old box you want or buy their hardware for it.  Even has a cisco like interface if you want.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What about Vyatta ?
It 's a good router based on linux and you can install it on any old box you want or buy their hardware for it .
Even has a cisco like interface if you want .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What about Vyatta?
It's a good router based on linux and you can install it on any old box you want or buy their hardware for it.
Even has a cisco like interface if you want.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30783890</id>
	<title>SNMP Nagios Cacti</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263549900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If monitoring is what you want, why don't you use SNMP, Nagios, &amp; Cacti on a Linux server attached to your system? SNMP is supported by Microtik and Ubiquiti. Setting up SNMP and Nagios isn't the easiest thing in the world but they're free and work very well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If monitoring is what you want , why do n't you use SNMP , Nagios , &amp; Cacti on a Linux server attached to your system ?
SNMP is supported by Microtik and Ubiquiti .
Setting up SNMP and Nagios is n't the easiest thing in the world but they 're free and work very well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If monitoring is what you want, why don't you use SNMP, Nagios, &amp; Cacti on a Linux server attached to your system?
SNMP is supported by Microtik and Ubiquiti.
Setting up SNMP and Nagios isn't the easiest thing in the world but they're free and work very well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772622</id>
	<title>Re:Mutually exclusive</title>
	<author>Fez</author>
	<datestamp>1263471600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You can have low-cost commercial grade services run using off-the-shelf hardware.</p><p><a href="http://www.pfsense.org/" title="pfsense.org" rel="nofollow">pfSense</a> [pfsense.org] includes support for CARP, which lets you build high-availablity failover clusters. You can have two (or three or four...) cheap systems and if one dies, just fix/replace it as needed. The backup system(s) automatically take over and nobody would likely even notice the changeover.</p><p>When it's cheap, that is much easier to consider.</p><p>If you want no moving parts, you can use an ALIX box, Soekris, or perhaps even some atom-based boards. If you want to use server-grade boxes to make yourself feel warm and fuzzy, you can do that too. Supermicro even has a server-class atom board in a 1U rack which runs pfSense very well for us.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You can have low-cost commercial grade services run using off-the-shelf hardware.pfSense [ pfsense.org ] includes support for CARP , which lets you build high-availablity failover clusters .
You can have two ( or three or four... ) cheap systems and if one dies , just fix/replace it as needed .
The backup system ( s ) automatically take over and nobody would likely even notice the changeover.When it 's cheap , that is much easier to consider.If you want no moving parts , you can use an ALIX box , Soekris , or perhaps even some atom-based boards .
If you want to use server-grade boxes to make yourself feel warm and fuzzy , you can do that too .
Supermicro even has a server-class atom board in a 1U rack which runs pfSense very well for us .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can have low-cost commercial grade services run using off-the-shelf hardware.pfSense [pfsense.org] includes support for CARP, which lets you build high-availablity failover clusters.
You can have two (or three or four...) cheap systems and if one dies, just fix/replace it as needed.
The backup system(s) automatically take over and nobody would likely even notice the changeover.When it's cheap, that is much easier to consider.If you want no moving parts, you can use an ALIX box, Soekris, or perhaps even some atom-based boards.
If you want to use server-grade boxes to make yourself feel warm and fuzzy, you can do that too.
Supermicro even has a server-class atom board in a 1U rack which runs pfSense very well for us.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771598</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30775384</id>
	<title>OpenBSD</title>
	<author>DaMattster</author>
	<datestamp>1263491340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>OpenBSD has been used as a router in enterprise environments.  Check out <a href="http://www.openbsd.org/" title="openbsd.org">http://www.openbsd.org/</a> [openbsd.org] or their OpenOSPF and OpenBGP implementations.  They strive to be lean, standards compliant, and meet the broadest set of routing criteria.  Coincidentally, OpenBSD has an incredibly easy to configure IPSEC stack as well as tools for router redundancy called CARP.</htmltext>
<tokenext>OpenBSD has been used as a router in enterprise environments .
Check out http : //www.openbsd.org/ [ openbsd.org ] or their OpenOSPF and OpenBGP implementations .
They strive to be lean , standards compliant , and meet the broadest set of routing criteria .
Coincidentally , OpenBSD has an incredibly easy to configure IPSEC stack as well as tools for router redundancy called CARP .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OpenBSD has been used as a router in enterprise environments.
Check out http://www.openbsd.org/ [openbsd.org] or their OpenOSPF and OpenBGP implementations.
They strive to be lean, standards compliant, and meet the broadest set of routing criteria.
Coincidentally, OpenBSD has an incredibly easy to configure IPSEC stack as well as tools for router redundancy called CARP.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771554</id>
	<title>Vyatta</title>
	<author>asaivan</author>
	<datestamp>1263466560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.vyatta.com/" title="vyatta.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.vyatta.com/</a> [vyatta.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.vyatta.com/ [ vyatta.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.vyatta.com/ [vyatta.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30774002</id>
	<title>Re:Are you serious, or just killing time?</title>
	<author>networkBoy</author>
	<datestamp>1263479400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>FWIW:</p><p>PCI / PCIe x1 are both ~1Gbps max throughput (not counting overhead, that's raw bus speed).<br>All the other PCIe's scale linerly, thus a PCIe x4 is 4Gbps bus speed.</p><p>After communications protocol over the bus that speed drops (not sure how much).  There are other factors as well but what it all comes down to is PCI or PCIe can really handle only about 500Mbps per link.</p><p>-nB</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>FWIW : PCI / PCIe x1 are both ~ 1Gbps max throughput ( not counting overhead , that 's raw bus speed ) .All the other PCIe 's scale linerly , thus a PCIe x4 is 4Gbps bus speed.After communications protocol over the bus that speed drops ( not sure how much ) .
There are other factors as well but what it all comes down to is PCI or PCIe can really handle only about 500Mbps per link.-nB</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FWIW:PCI / PCIe x1 are both ~1Gbps max throughput (not counting overhead, that's raw bus speed).All the other PCIe's scale linerly, thus a PCIe x4 is 4Gbps bus speed.After communications protocol over the bus that speed drops (not sure how much).
There are other factors as well but what it all comes down to is PCI or PCIe can really handle only about 500Mbps per link.-nB</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772772</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30774314</id>
	<title>Powerful open source freight distribution?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263481800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, I need to move a container of freight across the country, but we don't have the budget for a train. Do you guys know of a free open-source way to do that? I was thinking of tying swallows to the container with bits of string, but does Slashdot know a better way?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , I need to move a container of freight across the country , but we do n't have the budget for a train .
Do you guys know of a free open-source way to do that ?
I was thinking of tying swallows to the container with bits of string , but does Slashdot know a better way ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, I need to move a container of freight across the country, but we don't have the budget for a train.
Do you guys know of a free open-source way to do that?
I was thinking of tying swallows to the container with bits of string, but does Slashdot know a better way?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30777562</id>
	<title>Linux based routers by ImageStream</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263562140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I work for an ISP and we are using linux based routers from ImageStream (http://www.imagestream.com) or you can simply use any distro and configure it according to your needs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I work for an ISP and we are using linux based routers from ImageStream ( http : //www.imagestream.com ) or you can simply use any distro and configure it according to your needs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work for an ISP and we are using linux based routers from ImageStream (http://www.imagestream.com) or you can simply use any distro and configure it according to your needs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771802</id>
	<title>Re:Hire someone who knows what they are doing.</title>
	<author>lymond01</author>
	<datestamp>1263467820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i> The fact that you are asking on slashdot shows that you are not qualified, and what you're going to get back is a bunch of others, who aren't qualified, suggesting all sorts of half assed hacks to do it which will just result in a utterly shitty service overall.</i></p><p>I disagree.  The Open Source community has a thousand hidden gems that a person might not have heard about.  Proxmox VE for one: virtualization, with a GUI, with live migration, and if 2.0 turns out, with heartbeat and failover (high availability).  Most people have never heard of this where I work even though half the place is virtualized with KVM, VMWare, Hyper-V, etc.  I would think the Slashdot, with its plethora of experiences, might come up with a little-known or workable solution in an already developed product that you haven't heard of yet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The fact that you are asking on slashdot shows that you are not qualified , and what you 're going to get back is a bunch of others , who are n't qualified , suggesting all sorts of half assed hacks to do it which will just result in a utterly shitty service overall.I disagree .
The Open Source community has a thousand hidden gems that a person might not have heard about .
Proxmox VE for one : virtualization , with a GUI , with live migration , and if 2.0 turns out , with heartbeat and failover ( high availability ) .
Most people have never heard of this where I work even though half the place is virtualized with KVM , VMWare , Hyper-V , etc .
I would think the Slashdot , with its plethora of experiences , might come up with a little-known or workable solution in an already developed product that you have n't heard of yet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> The fact that you are asking on slashdot shows that you are not qualified, and what you're going to get back is a bunch of others, who aren't qualified, suggesting all sorts of half assed hacks to do it which will just result in a utterly shitty service overall.I disagree.
The Open Source community has a thousand hidden gems that a person might not have heard about.
Proxmox VE for one: virtualization, with a GUI, with live migration, and if 2.0 turns out, with heartbeat and failover (high availability).
Most people have never heard of this where I work even though half the place is virtualized with KVM, VMWare, Hyper-V, etc.
I would think the Slashdot, with its plethora of experiences, might come up with a little-known or workable solution in an already developed product that you haven't heard of yet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30774150</id>
	<title>Re:Ebay is your friend.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263480600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>you are aware that Cisco IOS is non-transferable so while you can certainly pick up the HW at a cheap cost your going to either a) run it illegally or b)take it up the ass to get it inspected, licensed and covered by smartnet which by the way are 3 things that are mutually tied together.  You cant order the software without ordering smartnet and you cant do that until you get the box inspected.</p><p>If you want to go a cheaper route then get Cisco Authorized referb.  Its cheaper than new and legal. Save your company from doing something stupid...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>you are aware that Cisco IOS is non-transferable so while you can certainly pick up the HW at a cheap cost your going to either a ) run it illegally or b ) take it up the ass to get it inspected , licensed and covered by smartnet which by the way are 3 things that are mutually tied together .
You cant order the software without ordering smartnet and you cant do that until you get the box inspected.If you want to go a cheaper route then get Cisco Authorized referb .
Its cheaper than new and legal .
Save your company from doing something stupid.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you are aware that Cisco IOS is non-transferable so while you can certainly pick up the HW at a cheap cost your going to either a) run it illegally or b)take it up the ass to get it inspected, licensed and covered by smartnet which by the way are 3 things that are mutually tied together.
You cant order the software without ordering smartnet and you cant do that until you get the box inspected.If you want to go a cheaper route then get Cisco Authorized referb.
Its cheaper than new and legal.
Save your company from doing something stupid...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771740</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30775590</id>
	<title>Business case!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263493800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your questions reveals why Cisco is still in business.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your questions reveals why Cisco is still in business .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your questions reveals why Cisco is still in business.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30775568</id>
	<title>Re:Vyatta</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263493560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The community version 6 is still in alpha. And the community 5  version is stable.<br>Subscription version which is based on 2.6.30 is based on a version in between<br>the two.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The community version 6 is still in alpha .
And the community 5 version is stable.Subscription version which is based on 2.6.30 is based on a version in betweenthe two .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The community version 6 is still in alpha.
And the community 5  version is stable.Subscription version which is based on 2.6.30 is based on a version in betweenthe two.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772866</id>
	<title>Re:Hire someone who knows what they are doing.</title>
	<author>fm6</author>
	<datestamp>1263472920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The Open Source community has a thousand hidden gems that a person might not have heard about.</p></div><p>True.  But no "software gem" can do the human-level problem solving their guy needs.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The Open Source community has a thousand hidden gems that a person might not have heard about.True .
But no " software gem " can do the human-level problem solving their guy needs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Open Source community has a thousand hidden gems that a person might not have heard about.True.
But no "software gem" can do the human-level problem solving their guy needs.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771802</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30783600</id>
	<title>Re:Just use any Linux distro</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1263548760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Either way, you would definitely have a more flexible solution that any canned product will provide you with.</p></div></blockquote><p>Citation needed.</p><p>Just because its open source doesn't automagically make it more flexible.  You're going to have to pay someone to do the work, and contrary to popular belief, if you're willing to pay for the development almost anyone will write custom software for their hardware, including the giants like Cisco.</p><p>So<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... you're going to pay someone to do the work anyway you look at it.  The idea that OS == MORE FLEXIBLE just because is retarded and is generally only quoted by fanboys and people without a clue.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Either way , you would definitely have a more flexible solution that any canned product will provide you with.Citation needed.Just because its open source does n't automagically make it more flexible .
You 're going to have to pay someone to do the work , and contrary to popular belief , if you 're willing to pay for the development almost anyone will write custom software for their hardware , including the giants like Cisco.So ... you 're going to pay someone to do the work anyway you look at it .
The idea that OS = = MORE FLEXIBLE just because is retarded and is generally only quoted by fanboys and people without a clue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Either way, you would definitely have a more flexible solution that any canned product will provide you with.Citation needed.Just because its open source doesn't automagically make it more flexible.
You're going to have to pay someone to do the work, and contrary to popular belief, if you're willing to pay for the development almost anyone will write custom software for their hardware, including the giants like Cisco.So ... you're going to pay someone to do the work anyway you look at it.
The idea that OS == MORE FLEXIBLE just because is retarded and is generally only quoted by fanboys and people without a clue.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771250</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771334</id>
	<title>Re:Just use any Linux distro</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263465660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You asked for it!</p><p>I have a acer one with a broken screen. Currently i'm using it as a (120gig) file server, but I'm quite interested in using it as a firewall, and/or to monitor the traffic on my wireless router. My current router works fine, but I have absolutely no idea who is connected to it wirelessly, nor do I know how much data is being up/downloaded through it.  Is there some Linuxy solution where the PC either becomes the router, or at least can intelligently talk to it?  How much of this depends on which router I have, and how much is the least I can get away with spending for one which would work with such a system?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You asked for it ! I have a acer one with a broken screen .
Currently i 'm using it as a ( 120gig ) file server , but I 'm quite interested in using it as a firewall , and/or to monitor the traffic on my wireless router .
My current router works fine , but I have absolutely no idea who is connected to it wirelessly , nor do I know how much data is being up/downloaded through it .
Is there some Linuxy solution where the PC either becomes the router , or at least can intelligently talk to it ?
How much of this depends on which router I have , and how much is the least I can get away with spending for one which would work with such a system ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You asked for it!I have a acer one with a broken screen.
Currently i'm using it as a (120gig) file server, but I'm quite interested in using it as a firewall, and/or to monitor the traffic on my wireless router.
My current router works fine, but I have absolutely no idea who is connected to it wirelessly, nor do I know how much data is being up/downloaded through it.
Is there some Linuxy solution where the PC either becomes the router, or at least can intelligently talk to it?
How much of this depends on which router I have, and how much is the least I can get away with spending for one which would work with such a system?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771250</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30783800</id>
	<title>Re:Hire someone who knows what they are doing.</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1263549540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> and if</p></div></blockquote><p>And that my friend is where you utterly failed to get the point.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>and ifAnd that my friend is where you utterly failed to get the point .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> and ifAnd that my friend is where you utterly failed to get the point.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771802</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30776294</id>
	<title>Re:Be more specific!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263546840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Couple of us take care about wireless network in one county, and we have some 30 nodes, and about 100 members. Most of the routers do run Mikrotik, while there is also significant number of monowall/pfsense (BSD) and linux (customized) boxes, depending on the role of the router.</p><p>We also designed a whole network for one high school, with several pfsense and linux routers, using 4-6 network cards in router (only new hardware, mind you). The school has a number of work places for adminstration, at least one computer per teacher and 10 classroms with 20+ computers for students. There is also a number of video cameras for security purpouses.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Couple of us take care about wireless network in one county , and we have some 30 nodes , and about 100 members .
Most of the routers do run Mikrotik , while there is also significant number of monowall/pfsense ( BSD ) and linux ( customized ) boxes , depending on the role of the router.We also designed a whole network for one high school , with several pfsense and linux routers , using 4-6 network cards in router ( only new hardware , mind you ) .
The school has a number of work places for adminstration , at least one computer per teacher and 10 classroms with 20 + computers for students .
There is also a number of video cameras for security purpouses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Couple of us take care about wireless network in one county, and we have some 30 nodes, and about 100 members.
Most of the routers do run Mikrotik, while there is also significant number of monowall/pfsense (BSD) and linux (customized) boxes, depending on the role of the router.We also designed a whole network for one high school, with several pfsense and linux routers, using 4-6 network cards in router (only new hardware, mind you).
The school has a number of work places for adminstration, at least one computer per teacher and 10 classroms with 20+ computers for students.
There is also a number of video cameras for security purpouses.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771464</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771484</id>
	<title>Vyatta?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263466320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I use it, it works really well.</p><p>http://www.vyatta.org/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I use it , it works really well.http : //www.vyatta.org/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I use it, it works really well.http://www.vyatta.org/</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771266</id>
	<title>Powerful Linux Trout Distribution?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263465420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am a fish!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am a fish !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am a fish!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30773826</id>
	<title>Re:Just use any Linux distro</title>
	<author>tkjtkj</author>
	<datestamp>1263478140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>in your comment:
" Either way, you would definitely have a more flexible solution that any canned product will provide you with."

it seems clear that you would better have used the correct english: eg:
"you would definitely have a more flexible solution that any canned product "
ought to be replaced with: " you would definitely have a more flexible THAN  any canned<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..."..

ie, 'that' is not used in any comparative sense<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..   rather:<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... THAN<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. is proper..and consequently comprehensible...

Of course, your error might have been a consequence of 'expeditious need' , in which case my comment was merely to enlighten those who might have accepted your construction<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...

If so, do forgive me<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. but.. at the same time, thank me for contributing to the erudition of our peoples.

j. anderson
tkjtkj@gmail.com

and btw, what is the significance of the otherwise UNdefined lil 'checkbox' just below my 'subject line' ??? ehhh????? what gives????</htmltext>
<tokenext>in your comment : " Either way , you would definitely have a more flexible solution that any canned product will provide you with .
" it seems clear that you would better have used the correct english : eg : " you would definitely have a more flexible solution that any canned product " ought to be replaced with : " you would definitely have a more flexible THAN any canned ... " . . ie , 'that ' is not used in any comparative sense .. rather : .... THAN .. is proper..and consequently comprehensible.. . Of course , your error might have been a consequence of 'expeditious need ' , in which case my comment was merely to enlighten those who might have accepted your construction .. . If so , do forgive me .. but.. at the same time , thank me for contributing to the erudition of our peoples .
j. anderson tkjtkj @ gmail.com and btw , what is the significance of the otherwise UNdefined lil 'checkbox ' just below my 'subject line ' ? ? ?
ehhh ? ? ? ? ? what gives ? ? ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>in your comment:
" Either way, you would definitely have a more flexible solution that any canned product will provide you with.
"

it seems clear that you would better have used the correct english: eg:
"you would definitely have a more flexible solution that any canned product "
ought to be replaced with: " you would definitely have a more flexible THAN  any canned ..."..

ie, 'that' is not used in any comparative sense ..   rather: .... THAN .. is proper..and consequently comprehensible...

Of course, your error might have been a consequence of 'expeditious need' , in which case my comment was merely to enlighten those who might have accepted your construction ...

If so, do forgive me .. but.. at the same time, thank me for contributing to the erudition of our peoples.
j. anderson
tkjtkj@gmail.com

and btw, what is the significance of the otherwise UNdefined lil 'checkbox' just below my 'subject line' ???
ehhh????? what gives???
?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771250</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771324</id>
	<title>Vyatta</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263465600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://www.vyatta.com/about/press\_releases.php?id=75</p><p>try the beta v6</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.vyatta.com/about/press \ _releases.php ? id = 75try the beta v6</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.vyatta.com/about/press\_releases.php?id=75try the beta v6</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30774720</id>
	<title>Re:Mutually exclusive</title>
	<author>fibrewire</author>
	<datestamp>1263485040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Mikrotik Routers are solid routers, but they choke on bandwidth intensive applications - or maybe my routing tables choke. How would i know? What tools would i use?</p><p>The equipment being used is commercial grade and low cost compared to Motorola and Cisco alternatives. Other wireless equipment manufactures used licensed frequencies and it's still horrible to use or featureless. Then said same companies charge a 3000\% markup for an unlock code to access additional bandwidth on their devices. I can't tolerate that. How am i supposed to pass on the savings to the end user without fair pricing?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mikrotik Routers are solid routers , but they choke on bandwidth intensive applications - or maybe my routing tables choke .
How would i know ?
What tools would i use ? The equipment being used is commercial grade and low cost compared to Motorola and Cisco alternatives .
Other wireless equipment manufactures used licensed frequencies and it 's still horrible to use or featureless .
Then said same companies charge a 3000 \ % markup for an unlock code to access additional bandwidth on their devices .
I ca n't tolerate that .
How am i supposed to pass on the savings to the end user without fair pricing ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mikrotik Routers are solid routers, but they choke on bandwidth intensive applications - or maybe my routing tables choke.
How would i know?
What tools would i use?The equipment being used is commercial grade and low cost compared to Motorola and Cisco alternatives.
Other wireless equipment manufactures used licensed frequencies and it's still horrible to use or featureless.
Then said same companies charge a 3000\% markup for an unlock code to access additional bandwidth on their devices.
I can't tolerate that.
How am i supposed to pass on the savings to the end user without fair pricing?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771598</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771740</id>
	<title>Ebay is your friend.</title>
	<author>jjeffries</author>
	<datestamp>1263467400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Start off small. Pick up some used Cisco stuff off Ebay at 1\% list. Maybe a 6500 with a couple of SUP2s for your core switch, a couple or four 7200s for the upstreams/customer facing bits. Make lots of money, upgrade to newer stuff as needed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Start off small .
Pick up some used Cisco stuff off Ebay at 1 \ % list .
Maybe a 6500 with a couple of SUP2s for your core switch , a couple or four 7200s for the upstreams/customer facing bits .
Make lots of money , upgrade to newer stuff as needed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Start off small.
Pick up some used Cisco stuff off Ebay at 1\% list.
Maybe a 6500 with a couple of SUP2s for your core switch, a couple or four 7200s for the upstreams/customer facing bits.
Make lots of money, upgrade to newer stuff as needed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30774916</id>
	<title>Re:been there done that bought the tee shirt</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263486660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I played this game once too. Off the shelf boxes like bandwidth control units (BCU's) actually work the *opposite* of what you want, which is to saturate the pipe you are paying for and make your customers happy. The key to doing that is using HTB from devik, which has since been incorporated into the main kernel. BCU's will rate-limit each connection and no one will ever get better than your setting using a regular token bucket. HTB turns this on its head and always gives out all the b/w you have available.</p><p>Multi-hop all the T1s (or E1s/whatever) you have available and enjoy all the happy emails you will get. HTB provides a guaranteed *minimum* b/w satisfying your need not to over saturate the b/w you have, but when you have idle b/w it will be doled out to whomever is on at the time. You can also give certain customers priority to over-ride common users and grab their own, special minimum b/w from the pool. It's perfect for a wisp.</p><p>Obviously, this is a bad idea if you have any xfer limits, but if you have unlimited guaranteed b/w, HTB is the way to go.</p><p>http://luxik.cdi.cz/~devik/qos/htb/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I played this game once too .
Off the shelf boxes like bandwidth control units ( BCU 's ) actually work the * opposite * of what you want , which is to saturate the pipe you are paying for and make your customers happy .
The key to doing that is using HTB from devik , which has since been incorporated into the main kernel .
BCU 's will rate-limit each connection and no one will ever get better than your setting using a regular token bucket .
HTB turns this on its head and always gives out all the b/w you have available.Multi-hop all the T1s ( or E1s/whatever ) you have available and enjoy all the happy emails you will get .
HTB provides a guaranteed * minimum * b/w satisfying your need not to over saturate the b/w you have , but when you have idle b/w it will be doled out to whomever is on at the time .
You can also give certain customers priority to over-ride common users and grab their own , special minimum b/w from the pool .
It 's perfect for a wisp.Obviously , this is a bad idea if you have any xfer limits , but if you have unlimited guaranteed b/w , HTB is the way to go.http : //luxik.cdi.cz/ ~ devik/qos/htb/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I played this game once too.
Off the shelf boxes like bandwidth control units (BCU's) actually work the *opposite* of what you want, which is to saturate the pipe you are paying for and make your customers happy.
The key to doing that is using HTB from devik, which has since been incorporated into the main kernel.
BCU's will rate-limit each connection and no one will ever get better than your setting using a regular token bucket.
HTB turns this on its head and always gives out all the b/w you have available.Multi-hop all the T1s (or E1s/whatever) you have available and enjoy all the happy emails you will get.
HTB provides a guaranteed *minimum* b/w satisfying your need not to over saturate the b/w you have, but when you have idle b/w it will be doled out to whomever is on at the time.
You can also give certain customers priority to over-ride common users and grab their own, special minimum b/w from the pool.
It's perfect for a wisp.Obviously, this is a bad idea if you have any xfer limits, but if you have unlimited guaranteed b/w, HTB is the way to go.http://luxik.cdi.cz/~devik/qos/htb/</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30773350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771464</id>
	<title>Be more specific!</title>
	<author>dokebi</author>
	<datestamp>1263466200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Without more performance and cost requirements, it's really hard to figure out what would work for you.</p><p>Are your users all in one building? Over a large area? Are you talking about a dozen access points or hundreds?</p><p>Without some more specific information, only advice I can give is:<br>Soekris boxes with FreeBSD.</p><p>Good luck.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Without more performance and cost requirements , it 's really hard to figure out what would work for you.Are your users all in one building ?
Over a large area ?
Are you talking about a dozen access points or hundreds ? Without some more specific information , only advice I can give is : Soekris boxes with FreeBSD.Good luck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Without more performance and cost requirements, it's really hard to figure out what would work for you.Are your users all in one building?
Over a large area?
Are you talking about a dozen access points or hundreds?Without some more specific information, only advice I can give is:Soekris boxes with FreeBSD.Good luck.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772930</id>
	<title>Re:Screw Linux</title>
	<author>Ritz\_Just\_Ritz</author>
	<datestamp>1263473160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>PFsense has been OK for me in a small business environment, but it's nowhere near robust enough for ISP duty.  For one, the multiwan implementation has been somewhat troublesome (mostly working, but occasional glitches) and traffic shaping doesn't work at all with multiwan.  If you can do your multiwan stuff with an appliance, then perhaps that's not an issue, but my assumption was that you wanted something to act as your "core" using commodity hardware.</p><p>Best,</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>PFsense has been OK for me in a small business environment , but it 's nowhere near robust enough for ISP duty .
For one , the multiwan implementation has been somewhat troublesome ( mostly working , but occasional glitches ) and traffic shaping does n't work at all with multiwan .
If you can do your multiwan stuff with an appliance , then perhaps that 's not an issue , but my assumption was that you wanted something to act as your " core " using commodity hardware.Best,</tokentext>
<sentencetext>PFsense has been OK for me in a small business environment, but it's nowhere near robust enough for ISP duty.
For one, the multiwan implementation has been somewhat troublesome (mostly working, but occasional glitches) and traffic shaping doesn't work at all with multiwan.
If you can do your multiwan stuff with an appliance, then perhaps that's not an issue, but my assumption was that you wanted something to act as your "core" using commodity hardware.Best,</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771454</id>
	<title>Re:Just use any Linux distro</title>
	<author>Enuratique</author>
	<datestamp>1263466140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm pretty sure Linux can do this but I am by no means a guru.  If your router is a Linksys WRT54G, I highly recommend installing the 3rd party Tomato firmware.  All the features you require are there. I personally find the Quality of Service packet prioritzation an absolute must in a household of bachelors all running BitTorrent and Xbox 360s...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm pretty sure Linux can do this but I am by no means a guru .
If your router is a Linksys WRT54G , I highly recommend installing the 3rd party Tomato firmware .
All the features you require are there .
I personally find the Quality of Service packet prioritzation an absolute must in a household of bachelors all running BitTorrent and Xbox 360s.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm pretty sure Linux can do this but I am by no means a guru.
If your router is a Linksys WRT54G, I highly recommend installing the 3rd party Tomato firmware.
All the features you require are there.
I personally find the Quality of Service packet prioritzation an absolute must in a household of bachelors all running BitTorrent and Xbox 360s...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771334</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30775576</id>
	<title>Re:DD WRT</title>
	<author>Hydroksyde</author>
	<datestamp>1263493680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>No. Just no.

Why the fuck was this modded informative?</htmltext>
<tokenext>No .
Just no .
Why the fuck was this modded informative ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No.
Just no.
Why the fuck was this modded informative?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771320</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772098</id>
	<title>Re:Hire someone who knows what they are doing.</title>
	<author>GooberToo</author>
	<datestamp>1263469260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The proper question is: How do I find someone qualified to do this for me?</p></div><p>You mean because he's humble enough to realize he doesn't know every thing, you believe he's unqualified anything. I suggest you look hard in the mirror and read what you just wrote to yourself.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The proper question is : How do I find someone qualified to do this for me ? You mean because he 's humble enough to realize he does n't know every thing , you believe he 's unqualified anything .
I suggest you look hard in the mirror and read what you just wrote to yourself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The proper question is: How do I find someone qualified to do this for me?You mean because he's humble enough to realize he doesn't know every thing, you believe he's unqualified anything.
I suggest you look hard in the mirror and read what you just wrote to yourself.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771870</id>
	<title>Support?</title>
	<author>travisb828</author>
	<datestamp>1263468120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Part of the reason why you pay for Cisco is for support.  If something fails you can get a replacement quick. If you dont mind spending a little more you can get a replacement delivered to you while TAC sits on a bridge with you.  You also have the option of delivering it on a silver platter.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Part of the reason why you pay for Cisco is for support .
If something fails you can get a replacement quick .
If you dont mind spending a little more you can get a replacement delivered to you while TAC sits on a bridge with you .
You also have the option of delivering it on a silver platter .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Part of the reason why you pay for Cisco is for support.
If something fails you can get a replacement quick.
If you dont mind spending a little more you can get a replacement delivered to you while TAC sits on a bridge with you.
You also have the option of delivering it on a silver platter.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772318</id>
	<title>just a thought</title>
	<author>khelix</author>
	<datestamp>1263470340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I did not see anyone suggest <a href="http://www.untangle.com/" title="untangle.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.untangle.com/</a> [untangle.com] . i have only played with it for a short time, but it might be worth checking out!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I did not see anyone suggest http : //www.untangle.com/ [ untangle.com ] .
i have only played with it for a short time , but it might be worth checking out !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I did not see anyone suggest http://www.untangle.com/ [untangle.com] .
i have only played with it for a short time, but it might be worth checking out!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772828</id>
	<title>Re:Hire someone who knows what they are doing.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263472680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Have you worked at a cell phone, cable, or standard POTS company lately?<br>What exactly do you think you are going to get there besides a bunch of unqualified, "half assed hacks to do it which will just result in a utterly shitty service overall."</p><p>Besides, many of the folks posting in this thread are probably those same unqualified, half-assed hacks who work at such companies. Corporations don't have any corporate voodoo that makes them special any more than someone working for the government makes them any smarter or able to perform miracles (free healthcare, news cars, and money for everyone, YAY!)  Put down the kool-aid and open your eyes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Have you worked at a cell phone , cable , or standard POTS company lately ? What exactly do you think you are going to get there besides a bunch of unqualified , " half assed hacks to do it which will just result in a utterly shitty service overall .
" Besides , many of the folks posting in this thread are probably those same unqualified , half-assed hacks who work at such companies .
Corporations do n't have any corporate voodoo that makes them special any more than someone working for the government makes them any smarter or able to perform miracles ( free healthcare , news cars , and money for everyone , YAY !
) Put down the kool-aid and open your eyes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have you worked at a cell phone, cable, or standard POTS company lately?What exactly do you think you are going to get there besides a bunch of unqualified, "half assed hacks to do it which will just result in a utterly shitty service overall.
"Besides, many of the folks posting in this thread are probably those same unqualified, half-assed hacks who work at such companies.
Corporations don't have any corporate voodoo that makes them special any more than someone working for the government makes them any smarter or able to perform miracles (free healthcare, news cars, and money for everyone, YAY!
)  Put down the kool-aid and open your eyes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771936</id>
	<title>As others have said...</title>
	<author>KiwiGod</author>
	<datestamp>1263468480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>What's your interface to the net, line cards, bandwidth expectations, etc.  I spent 5 years building a fairly heavy duty wISP network on a stupid low budget from my boss.  You can obtain used cisco stuff for cheap.  For instance, you can get your hands on a 7206vxr with a NPE-G1 for $10k or less nowadays...  If you need something with high redundancy do do less intensive switching, you can pick up a 6509 with a pair of SUP2-MFSC2 cards for less than $2k.  As far as support contracts go, I can't imagine that you need the latest and greatest IOS, let alone a support contract that costs more than the replacement of a piece of hardware.

On a side note...  why are you asking about the uBR series?  Are you not running an ethernet network?

Last I checked, there's no such thing as "low cost commercial grade."  Depending on where you are, unlicensed stuff may not cut it, dealing with interference etc.  And licensed hardware is certainly not cheap.  With wireless, as well as so many other areas, you get what you pay for.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What 's your interface to the net , line cards , bandwidth expectations , etc .
I spent 5 years building a fairly heavy duty wISP network on a stupid low budget from my boss .
You can obtain used cisco stuff for cheap .
For instance , you can get your hands on a 7206vxr with a NPE-G1 for $ 10k or less nowadays... If you need something with high redundancy do do less intensive switching , you can pick up a 6509 with a pair of SUP2-MFSC2 cards for less than $ 2k .
As far as support contracts go , I ca n't imagine that you need the latest and greatest IOS , let alone a support contract that costs more than the replacement of a piece of hardware .
On a side note... why are you asking about the uBR series ?
Are you not running an ethernet network ?
Last I checked , there 's no such thing as " low cost commercial grade .
" Depending on where you are , unlicensed stuff may not cut it , dealing with interference etc .
And licensed hardware is certainly not cheap .
With wireless , as well as so many other areas , you get what you pay for .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What's your interface to the net, line cards, bandwidth expectations, etc.
I spent 5 years building a fairly heavy duty wISP network on a stupid low budget from my boss.
You can obtain used cisco stuff for cheap.
For instance, you can get your hands on a 7206vxr with a NPE-G1 for $10k or less nowadays...  If you need something with high redundancy do do less intensive switching, you can pick up a 6509 with a pair of SUP2-MFSC2 cards for less than $2k.
As far as support contracts go, I can't imagine that you need the latest and greatest IOS, let alone a support contract that costs more than the replacement of a piece of hardware.
On a side note...  why are you asking about the uBR series?
Are you not running an ethernet network?
Last I checked, there's no such thing as "low cost commercial grade.
"  Depending on where you are, unlicensed stuff may not cut it, dealing with interference etc.
And licensed hardware is certainly not cheap.
With wireless, as well as so many other areas, you get what you pay for.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30774948</id>
	<title>Meraki or open-mesh</title>
	<author>witherstaff</author>
	<datestamp>1263486840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Have you tried Meraki? Google bought into the company awhile ago and it all runs on Linux. There are proprietary bits nowadays so you can't put your own distro in place of the original code. However less than $200 for solid, lifetime warranty, outdoor gear is nice. The built in meshing control is impressive. The ranges with omni antennas are great. Also millions of users have connected to the 'net via meraki equipment according to the website. I'm currently writing this on a meraki mesh, 4th hop from the gateway, without a hiccup.</p><p>
I know it's fun to roll your own solution. If it's for your own personal needs I'd say go ahead with any of the variety of open source projects doing this. If you absolutely don't want a closed source then look at <a href="http://www.open-mesh.com/" title="open-mesh.com">http://www.open-mesh.com/</a> [open-mesh.com]. It took the concept of Meraki and went totally open source. It's a neat idea but having transferred over a terabyte on meraki gear I'm completely happy and wouldn't want the headaches of hardware and software not backed by a commercial company.
</p><p>Good luck on your WISP venture. As anyone in the ISP field will tell you - you're gonna need it!


</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Have you tried Meraki ?
Google bought into the company awhile ago and it all runs on Linux .
There are proprietary bits nowadays so you ca n't put your own distro in place of the original code .
However less than $ 200 for solid , lifetime warranty , outdoor gear is nice .
The built in meshing control is impressive .
The ranges with omni antennas are great .
Also millions of users have connected to the 'net via meraki equipment according to the website .
I 'm currently writing this on a meraki mesh , 4th hop from the gateway , without a hiccup .
I know it 's fun to roll your own solution .
If it 's for your own personal needs I 'd say go ahead with any of the variety of open source projects doing this .
If you absolutely do n't want a closed source then look at http : //www.open-mesh.com/ [ open-mesh.com ] .
It took the concept of Meraki and went totally open source .
It 's a neat idea but having transferred over a terabyte on meraki gear I 'm completely happy and would n't want the headaches of hardware and software not backed by a commercial company .
Good luck on your WISP venture .
As anyone in the ISP field will tell you - you 're gon na need it !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have you tried Meraki?
Google bought into the company awhile ago and it all runs on Linux.
There are proprietary bits nowadays so you can't put your own distro in place of the original code.
However less than $200 for solid, lifetime warranty, outdoor gear is nice.
The built in meshing control is impressive.
The ranges with omni antennas are great.
Also millions of users have connected to the 'net via meraki equipment according to the website.
I'm currently writing this on a meraki mesh, 4th hop from the gateway, without a hiccup.
I know it's fun to roll your own solution.
If it's for your own personal needs I'd say go ahead with any of the variety of open source projects doing this.
If you absolutely don't want a closed source then look at http://www.open-mesh.com/ [open-mesh.com].
It took the concept of Meraki and went totally open source.
It's a neat idea but having transferred over a terabyte on meraki gear I'm completely happy and wouldn't want the headaches of hardware and software not backed by a commercial company.
Good luck on your WISP venture.
As anyone in the ISP field will tell you - you're gonna need it!


</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772018</id>
	<title>Re:Are you serious, or just killing time?</title>
	<author>b1t r0t</author>
	<datestamp>1263468840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The "same features"? You mean like ASICs that forward the data with low latency once the route is established? Yep, Linux is going to somehow magically add those to your computer, and that's one of the reasons people pay the extra money for Cisco over some old P3 tower PC and a CD-ROM with a penguin on it. Another is that they fit nicely in a rack.
</p><p>The submitter apparently has his own unique idea of what "ISP class" means. Admittedly, this is for a wireless network, so there is already a bit of latency expected and maybe not as much total bandwidth as a wired ISP, but you can never remove latency, only add less. And as you have pointed out, "ISP class" should include things like metrics and controls for users.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The " same features " ?
You mean like ASICs that forward the data with low latency once the route is established ?
Yep , Linux is going to somehow magically add those to your computer , and that 's one of the reasons people pay the extra money for Cisco over some old P3 tower PC and a CD-ROM with a penguin on it .
Another is that they fit nicely in a rack .
The submitter apparently has his own unique idea of what " ISP class " means .
Admittedly , this is for a wireless network , so there is already a bit of latency expected and maybe not as much total bandwidth as a wired ISP , but you can never remove latency , only add less .
And as you have pointed out , " ISP class " should include things like metrics and controls for users .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The "same features"?
You mean like ASICs that forward the data with low latency once the route is established?
Yep, Linux is going to somehow magically add those to your computer, and that's one of the reasons people pay the extra money for Cisco over some old P3 tower PC and a CD-ROM with a penguin on it.
Another is that they fit nicely in a rack.
The submitter apparently has his own unique idea of what "ISP class" means.
Admittedly, this is for a wireless network, so there is already a bit of latency expected and maybe not as much total bandwidth as a wired ISP, but you can never remove latency, only add less.
And as you have pointed out, "ISP class" should include things like metrics and controls for users.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771434</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772248</id>
	<title>Clearly no idea what you're talking about</title>
	<author>dbarclay10</author>
	<datestamp>1263469920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Okay, clearly you have no idea what you're talking about, because a Cisco Universal Broadband Router is a bit of kit used to terminate DOCSIS lines. In other words, it's for cable-modem broadband, not wireless. It would be useless to you.<br><br>That said, for others who're reading and who might be interested in some high-end, Linux-based packet-processing kit (because really, the prices Cisco and Juniper and the rest of them charge really are past the ass-raping point of the screw-me spectrum), you could check out Vyatta: http://www.vyatta.com/<br><br>Enjoy. HTH.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Okay , clearly you have no idea what you 're talking about , because a Cisco Universal Broadband Router is a bit of kit used to terminate DOCSIS lines .
In other words , it 's for cable-modem broadband , not wireless .
It would be useless to you.That said , for others who 're reading and who might be interested in some high-end , Linux-based packet-processing kit ( because really , the prices Cisco and Juniper and the rest of them charge really are past the ass-raping point of the screw-me spectrum ) , you could check out Vyatta : http : //www.vyatta.com/Enjoy .
HTH .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Okay, clearly you have no idea what you're talking about, because a Cisco Universal Broadband Router is a bit of kit used to terminate DOCSIS lines.
In other words, it's for cable-modem broadband, not wireless.
It would be useless to you.That said, for others who're reading and who might be interested in some high-end, Linux-based packet-processing kit (because really, the prices Cisco and Juniper and the rest of them charge really are past the ass-raping point of the screw-me spectrum), you could check out Vyatta: http://www.vyatta.com/Enjoy.
HTH.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30774892</id>
	<title>Need help</title>
	<author>Goody</author>
	<datestamp>1263486420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm building a WISP, too.  Do you think I should get a T-1 or a DS-3 for Internet?  I haven't been able to decide between BSD and Linux for my router operating system.  I think I'm going to go with Linux because I think the penguin mascot is cuter than that Satan mascot, but it's easier to get BSD to run on a 486 these days.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm building a WISP , too .
Do you think I should get a T-1 or a DS-3 for Internet ?
I have n't been able to decide between BSD and Linux for my router operating system .
I think I 'm going to go with Linux because I think the penguin mascot is cuter than that Satan mascot , but it 's easier to get BSD to run on a 486 these days .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm building a WISP, too.
Do you think I should get a T-1 or a DS-3 for Internet?
I haven't been able to decide between BSD and Linux for my router operating system.
I think I'm going to go with Linux because I think the penguin mascot is cuter than that Satan mascot, but it's easier to get BSD to run on a 486 these days.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30775850</id>
	<title>Zebos from IP Infusion</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263497340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you want a great platform that is portable check out Zebos from IP Infusion.  I run it on several systems and find its features great.  I honestly have no idea what it costs though but I'm sure it is less than that switch from Cisco.<br>Runs on Linux Kernel 2.6 or several other OSes.</p><p>Have fun!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you want a great platform that is portable check out Zebos from IP Infusion .
I run it on several systems and find its features great .
I honestly have no idea what it costs though but I 'm sure it is less than that switch from Cisco.Runs on Linux Kernel 2.6 or several other OSes.Have fun !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you want a great platform that is portable check out Zebos from IP Infusion.
I run it on several systems and find its features great.
I honestly have no idea what it costs though but I'm sure it is less than that switch from Cisco.Runs on Linux Kernel 2.6 or several other OSes.Have fun!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30778520</id>
	<title>Re:Just use any Linux distro</title>
	<author>robinstar1574</author>
	<datestamp>1263568860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>All you really need for routing service is IpConfig and a properly configured config file to provide service to everyone you wish to. This is no difficulty. After that, you can just use any router with the most users able to use it at a time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>All you really need for routing service is IpConfig and a properly configured config file to provide service to everyone you wish to .
This is no difficulty .
After that , you can just use any router with the most users able to use it at a time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All you really need for routing service is IpConfig and a properly configured config file to provide service to everyone you wish to.
This is no difficulty.
After that, you can just use any router with the most users able to use it at a time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771250</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771866</id>
	<title>routing solution</title>
	<author>freddieb</author>
	<datestamp>1263468060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I am not sure what you are asking. I have used a linux or freebsd home router for years. You can configure either rather simply with the information
available on the net including firewall filtering. I am sure you could use 1000mb ethernet cards and make a super fast router with either OS. Linux is
a little more hardware friendly than freebsd. As others have said, more information on specifics will get you specific answers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I am not sure what you are asking .
I have used a linux or freebsd home router for years .
You can configure either rather simply with the information available on the net including firewall filtering .
I am sure you could use 1000mb ethernet cards and make a super fast router with either OS .
Linux is a little more hardware friendly than freebsd .
As others have said , more information on specifics will get you specific answers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am not sure what you are asking.
I have used a linux or freebsd home router for years.
You can configure either rather simply with the information
available on the net including firewall filtering.
I am sure you could use 1000mb ethernet cards and make a super fast router with either OS.
Linux is
a little more hardware friendly than freebsd.
As others have said, more information on specifics will get you specific answers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30774704</id>
	<title>Re:Vyatta</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263484920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was going to mention this one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was going to mention this one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was going to mention this one.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771598</id>
	<title>Mutually exclusive</title>
	<author>vawarayer</author>
	<datestamp>1263466740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I'm building a Wireless ISP using commercial grade, low cost equipment.</p></div><p>To me, some words in this sentence seem to be mutually exclusive.</p><p>To my humble opinion, a good ISP needs to have good reliable equipement. Sometimes, out of the box routers are better because they don't have moving parts and their firmware could be more stable than a full-blown OS (even if it is Linux).</p><p>Disclaimer: Not that I don't like Linux, I use it all the time.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm building a Wireless ISP using commercial grade , low cost equipment.To me , some words in this sentence seem to be mutually exclusive.To my humble opinion , a good ISP needs to have good reliable equipement .
Sometimes , out of the box routers are better because they do n't have moving parts and their firmware could be more stable than a full-blown OS ( even if it is Linux ) .Disclaimer : Not that I do n't like Linux , I use it all the time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm building a Wireless ISP using commercial grade, low cost equipment.To me, some words in this sentence seem to be mutually exclusive.To my humble opinion, a good ISP needs to have good reliable equipement.
Sometimes, out of the box routers are better because they don't have moving parts and their firmware could be more stable than a full-blown OS (even if it is Linux).Disclaimer: Not that I don't like Linux, I use it all the time.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30773182</id>
	<title>Re:Vyatta</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263474360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hell yes!</p><p>I just stood up a whole building network with a lot of obnoxiousness recently, and Vyatta saved me a ton of money and time. Though admittedly, an ISP network is a different ball of wax. Vyatta is closer to a router though, so wireless management may not be as good as other distros.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hell yes ! I just stood up a whole building network with a lot of obnoxiousness recently , and Vyatta saved me a ton of money and time .
Though admittedly , an ISP network is a different ball of wax .
Vyatta is closer to a router though , so wireless management may not be as good as other distros .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hell yes!I just stood up a whole building network with a lot of obnoxiousness recently, and Vyatta saved me a ton of money and time.
Though admittedly, an ISP network is a different ball of wax.
Vyatta is closer to a router though, so wireless management may not be as good as other distros.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30825424</id>
	<title>Check out Vyatta dot com</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263899640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Check out Vyatta dot com at http://www.vyatta.com/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Check out Vyatta dot com at http : //www.vyatta.com/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Check out Vyatta dot com at http://www.vyatta.com/</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771646</id>
	<title>What on earth are you trying to actually do?</title>
	<author>sirket</author>
	<datestamp>1263466920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Routing and ISP's are huge topics- what are you trying to do?</p><p>The main problem with routing isn't bandwidth- anyone can pump enough 1500 or 9000 byte frames per second to fill a gigabit pipe. The problem is when you have lots of small packets. At that point, dedicated routing hardware with a high-speed TCAM becomes really important.</p><p>What kind of line cards do you need? ADSL? Ethernet? OC12?</p><p>What kind of services do you need to run? BGP? OSPF?</p><p>What kind of bandwidth are you going to be pushing?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Routing and ISP 's are huge topics- what are you trying to do ? The main problem with routing is n't bandwidth- anyone can pump enough 1500 or 9000 byte frames per second to fill a gigabit pipe .
The problem is when you have lots of small packets .
At that point , dedicated routing hardware with a high-speed TCAM becomes really important.What kind of line cards do you need ?
ADSL ? Ethernet ?
OC12 ? What kind of services do you need to run ?
BGP ? OSPF ? What kind of bandwidth are you going to be pushing ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Routing and ISP's are huge topics- what are you trying to do?The main problem with routing isn't bandwidth- anyone can pump enough 1500 or 9000 byte frames per second to fill a gigabit pipe.
The problem is when you have lots of small packets.
At that point, dedicated routing hardware with a high-speed TCAM becomes really important.What kind of line cards do you need?
ADSL? Ethernet?
OC12?What kind of services do you need to run?
BGP? OSPF?What kind of bandwidth are you going to be pushing?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30776220</id>
	<title>Anonymous</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263588960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Try Pfsense</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Try Pfsense</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try Pfsense</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772096</id>
	<title>Re:Are you serious, or just killing time?</title>
	<author>JWSmythe</author>
	<datestamp>1263469260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Cisco (and others) make ungodly money because they are perceived as the "best".  I won't argue that too much though.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; For low end stuff, there are cheaper options.  Do you need a Cisco Catalyst to handle 3 desks on a fairly slow DSL line, who aren't doing outrageous sharing between each other?  No.  Do you have 100 desks, then sure.  Could you do the 3 desk operation with a Linux machine and 4 network cards?  Sure.  In this example, it's cheaper to pick up a cheap hub, than to take even a salvage machine and put 4 network cards in it.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; What I've seen is bandwidth constraints on the bus.  What can pass more traffic, purpose built high end networking hardware, or a PC based machine?  If he's only passing 80Mb/s through to his upstream, then hey, go with Linux.  If he's passing 800Mb/s, then he needs serious equipment and shouldn't even consider going with a PC based Linux machine.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; I've done some really neat stuff in Linux that I couldn't do anywhere near as easily on Cisco equipment.  But, it depends on the purpose.  I really do love Cisco gear.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; I do have to wonder about his infrastructure though.  If he's setting up a WISP, does he have little Linux boxes strapped to towers?</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; I will agree with you, just about any Linux distro may do what he wants, and there are only the rare exceptions where things won't just work across distros.  Without knowing more about the business, there's no way to guess at what his business requirements are.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>    Cisco ( and others ) make ungodly money because they are perceived as the " best " .
I wo n't argue that too much though .
    For low end stuff , there are cheaper options .
Do you need a Cisco Catalyst to handle 3 desks on a fairly slow DSL line , who are n't doing outrageous sharing between each other ?
No. Do you have 100 desks , then sure .
Could you do the 3 desk operation with a Linux machine and 4 network cards ?
Sure. In this example , it 's cheaper to pick up a cheap hub , than to take even a salvage machine and put 4 network cards in it .
    What I 've seen is bandwidth constraints on the bus .
What can pass more traffic , purpose built high end networking hardware , or a PC based machine ?
If he 's only passing 80Mb/s through to his upstream , then hey , go with Linux .
If he 's passing 800Mb/s , then he needs serious equipment and should n't even consider going with a PC based Linux machine .
    I 've done some really neat stuff in Linux that I could n't do anywhere near as easily on Cisco equipment .
But , it depends on the purpose .
I really do love Cisco gear .
: )     I do have to wonder about his infrastructure though .
If he 's setting up a WISP , does he have little Linux boxes strapped to towers ?
    I will agree with you , just about any Linux distro may do what he wants , and there are only the rare exceptions where things wo n't just work across distros .
Without knowing more about the business , there 's no way to guess at what his business requirements are .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
    Cisco (and others) make ungodly money because they are perceived as the "best".
I won't argue that too much though.
    For low end stuff, there are cheaper options.
Do you need a Cisco Catalyst to handle 3 desks on a fairly slow DSL line, who aren't doing outrageous sharing between each other?
No.  Do you have 100 desks, then sure.
Could you do the 3 desk operation with a Linux machine and 4 network cards?
Sure.  In this example, it's cheaper to pick up a cheap hub, than to take even a salvage machine and put 4 network cards in it.
    What I've seen is bandwidth constraints on the bus.
What can pass more traffic, purpose built high end networking hardware, or a PC based machine?
If he's only passing 80Mb/s through to his upstream, then hey, go with Linux.
If he's passing 800Mb/s, then he needs serious equipment and shouldn't even consider going with a PC based Linux machine.
    I've done some really neat stuff in Linux that I couldn't do anywhere near as easily on Cisco equipment.
But, it depends on the purpose.
I really do love Cisco gear.
:)
    I do have to wonder about his infrastructure though.
If he's setting up a WISP, does he have little Linux boxes strapped to towers?
    I will agree with you, just about any Linux distro may do what he wants, and there are only the rare exceptions where things won't just work across distros.
Without knowing more about the business, there's no way to guess at what his business requirements are.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771434</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771542</id>
	<title>Vyatta or pfSense</title>
	<author>ipstatic</author>
	<datestamp>1263466500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Vyatta is pretty good, although the firewall rules can get overly verbose quickly. Also pfSense might be good to look at.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Vyatta is pretty good , although the firewall rules can get overly verbose quickly .
Also pfSense might be good to look at .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Vyatta is pretty good, although the firewall rules can get overly verbose quickly.
Also pfSense might be good to look at.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771622</id>
	<title>Re:Just use any Linux distro</title>
	<author>ls671</author>
	<datestamp>1263466800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have all my wireless IP addresses on a different subnet. The wireless router connects directly into the Linux router with its own interface. Thus it is easy to setup firewall rules specific to the wireless network and to monitor it for bandwidth usage and what not. Then connect your linux router to the ISP link.</p><p>To provide even more monitoring and trafic control capabilities from the Linux router, I do not use the DHCP server in the router but instead, wireless machines query the DHCP server on the Linux server.</p><p>All the required programs to accomplish this already come with most Linux distributions.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have all my wireless IP addresses on a different subnet .
The wireless router connects directly into the Linux router with its own interface .
Thus it is easy to setup firewall rules specific to the wireless network and to monitor it for bandwidth usage and what not .
Then connect your linux router to the ISP link.To provide even more monitoring and trafic control capabilities from the Linux router , I do not use the DHCP server in the router but instead , wireless machines query the DHCP server on the Linux server.All the required programs to accomplish this already come with most Linux distributions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have all my wireless IP addresses on a different subnet.
The wireless router connects directly into the Linux router with its own interface.
Thus it is easy to setup firewall rules specific to the wireless network and to monitor it for bandwidth usage and what not.
Then connect your linux router to the ISP link.To provide even more monitoring and trafic control capabilities from the Linux router, I do not use the DHCP server in the router but instead, wireless machines query the DHCP server on the Linux server.All the required programs to accomplish this already come with most Linux distributions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771334</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771636</id>
	<title>Hire someone who knows what they are doing.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263466860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sorry to be blunt, but you're asking the wrong question.</p><p>The proper question is: How do I find someone qualified to do this for me?</p><p>The fact that you are asking on slashdot shows that you are not qualified, and what you're going to get back is a bunch of others, who aren't qualified, suggesting all sorts of half assed hacks to do it which will just result in a utterly shitty service overall.</p><p>You could get by with this in the late 90s, but when you're going to compete with cell phone companies, cable companies and standard POTS companies, you probably need to have a bit of a clue.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry to be blunt , but you 're asking the wrong question.The proper question is : How do I find someone qualified to do this for me ? The fact that you are asking on slashdot shows that you are not qualified , and what you 're going to get back is a bunch of others , who are n't qualified , suggesting all sorts of half assed hacks to do it which will just result in a utterly shitty service overall.You could get by with this in the late 90s , but when you 're going to compete with cell phone companies , cable companies and standard POTS companies , you probably need to have a bit of a clue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry to be blunt, but you're asking the wrong question.The proper question is: How do I find someone qualified to do this for me?The fact that you are asking on slashdot shows that you are not qualified, and what you're going to get back is a bunch of others, who aren't qualified, suggesting all sorts of half assed hacks to do it which will just result in a utterly shitty service overall.You could get by with this in the late 90s, but when you're going to compete with cell phone companies, cable companies and standard POTS companies, you probably need to have a bit of a clue.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772452</id>
	<title>Re:Are you serious, or just killing time?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263470880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>install Cisco software on a LinkSys router.</p><p>As I understand it, Cisco markets consumer grade routers under the LinkSys brand name. The software (and aspects of the hardware) on the consumer products is a crippled version of the commercial products.</p><p>See: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/05/cisco-settles-fsf-gpl-lawsuit-appoints-compliance-officer.ars</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>install Cisco software on a LinkSys router.As I understand it , Cisco markets consumer grade routers under the LinkSys brand name .
The software ( and aspects of the hardware ) on the consumer products is a crippled version of the commercial products.See : http : //arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/05/cisco-settles-fsf-gpl-lawsuit-appoints-compliance-officer.ars</tokentext>
<sentencetext>install Cisco software on a LinkSys router.As I understand it, Cisco markets consumer grade routers under the LinkSys brand name.
The software (and aspects of the hardware) on the consumer products is a crippled version of the commercial products.See: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/05/cisco-settles-fsf-gpl-lawsuit-appoints-compliance-officer.ars</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771434</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772694</id>
	<title>Re:Be more specific!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263472080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Supporting several thousand users in a single building?  Remind me not to jump off the 34th floor.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Supporting several thousand users in a single building ?
Remind me not to jump off the 34th floor .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Supporting several thousand users in a single building?
Remind me not to jump off the 34th floor.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771464</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30773430</id>
	<title>Step in the right direction</title>
	<author>fibrewire</author>
	<datestamp>1263475860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I guess i'm looking for a scalable ISP-in-a-box solution. And if it doesn't exist, then let's build one. But Proxmox VE looks like it will fit well with managing computer resources between the handful of Dell 2950s slated for Zimbra, FreeIPA (Active Directory for Linux), Nagios, Cacti, and AIRControl.  Still looking for a good FreeRADIUS server i can tie into FreeIPA - but i need lots of other stuff than just a router-in-a-box. A balance between smartest / practicality / economical directly translates into cost savings of the end user. Someday i will be able to provide free internet, but for now i am targeting $20-$40 a month for data, voice, video, and multicast TV. Some features of a good OSS router needing attention are:</p><p>* PowerPC vs X86 vs GPU - does routing perform better on PowerPC (Mikrotik / Vyatta / Cisco)? would an Nvidia Tesla solution work well?<br>* Easy to manage large scale routing implementations - speed of deployment, discovery of devices, failover, centrally monitored?<br>* Weatherproof - power outages, network hiccups, etc. nothing more irritating than going on-site to an AP to reboot in the middle of a storm</p><p>For more details about a specific area please ask.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I guess i 'm looking for a scalable ISP-in-a-box solution .
And if it does n't exist , then let 's build one .
But Proxmox VE looks like it will fit well with managing computer resources between the handful of Dell 2950s slated for Zimbra , FreeIPA ( Active Directory for Linux ) , Nagios , Cacti , and AIRControl .
Still looking for a good FreeRADIUS server i can tie into FreeIPA - but i need lots of other stuff than just a router-in-a-box .
A balance between smartest / practicality / economical directly translates into cost savings of the end user .
Someday i will be able to provide free internet , but for now i am targeting $ 20- $ 40 a month for data , voice , video , and multicast TV .
Some features of a good OSS router needing attention are : * PowerPC vs X86 vs GPU - does routing perform better on PowerPC ( Mikrotik / Vyatta / Cisco ) ?
would an Nvidia Tesla solution work well ?
* Easy to manage large scale routing implementations - speed of deployment , discovery of devices , failover , centrally monitored ?
* Weatherproof - power outages , network hiccups , etc .
nothing more irritating than going on-site to an AP to reboot in the middle of a stormFor more details about a specific area please ask .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I guess i'm looking for a scalable ISP-in-a-box solution.
And if it doesn't exist, then let's build one.
But Proxmox VE looks like it will fit well with managing computer resources between the handful of Dell 2950s slated for Zimbra, FreeIPA (Active Directory for Linux), Nagios, Cacti, and AIRControl.
Still looking for a good FreeRADIUS server i can tie into FreeIPA - but i need lots of other stuff than just a router-in-a-box.
A balance between smartest / practicality / economical directly translates into cost savings of the end user.
Someday i will be able to provide free internet, but for now i am targeting $20-$40 a month for data, voice, video, and multicast TV.
Some features of a good OSS router needing attention are:* PowerPC vs X86 vs GPU - does routing perform better on PowerPC (Mikrotik / Vyatta / Cisco)?
would an Nvidia Tesla solution work well?
* Easy to manage large scale routing implementations - speed of deployment, discovery of devices, failover, centrally monitored?
* Weatherproof - power outages, network hiccups, etc.
nothing more irritating than going on-site to an AP to reboot in the middle of a stormFor more details about a specific area please ask.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771802</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771564</id>
	<title>Try Vyatta</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263466620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.vyatta.com/" title="vyatta.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.vyatta.com/</a> [vyatta.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.vyatta.com/ [ vyatta.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.vyatta.com/ [vyatta.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30774684</id>
	<title>Re:Be more specific!</title>
	<author>fibrewire</author>
	<datestamp>1263484740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Coachella Valley is the area - all of it. A large area.</p><p>A dozen to start but hundreds in the near future - i'm going to provide high bandwidth service for next to nothing. So the routing HAS to work for minimal bucks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Coachella Valley is the area - all of it .
A large area.A dozen to start but hundreds in the near future - i 'm going to provide high bandwidth service for next to nothing .
So the routing HAS to work for minimal bucks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Coachella Valley is the area - all of it.
A large area.A dozen to start but hundreds in the near future - i'm going to provide high bandwidth service for next to nothing.
So the routing HAS to work for minimal bucks.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771464</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30774288</id>
	<title>Re:Just use any Linux distro</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263481620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've used pfsense for quite a while. It's an embedded version of FreeBSD, which uses OpenBSD's pf. It works pretty well, and supports CARP (patent free VRRP) so you can have redundant routers (even with NAT -- it will sync firewall/nat state). It handles firewall rule changes gracefully by not destroying existing firewall states.</p><p>pfSense evolved from monowall and has more features at the cost of being a bit more heavyweight. It's a larger install, but supports more recent hardware. Monowall might work how you want.</p><p>In all honesty, if you need to spend $300k on a router, you're way past what something off the shelf hardware can do (in terms of performance) and you're looking at something that does the routing in an ASIC/FPGA.</p><p>Cisco will support the most features (doing most of it in hardware, emulating everything else in software). Foundry (now Brocade) and Force10 will do some insane routing throughput, and at line speed. I want to say the Force10 E600 we have at work will do 50gbit/sec of throughput and our Foundry RX16 will support around 640gbit. Both Foundry' and Force10's philosophy is, for the most part, "if we can't do it in hardware, we don't." They'll do things like spanning tree and BGP on the CPU, but anything related to getting a frame/frame from A-to-B is in an ASIC.</p><p>So yeah, if you're looking for a cheap embedded solution, you're golden. Get up to 10 gigabit and you start running into latency problems and I/O issues that you can't solve by swapping out an OS.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've used pfsense for quite a while .
It 's an embedded version of FreeBSD , which uses OpenBSD 's pf .
It works pretty well , and supports CARP ( patent free VRRP ) so you can have redundant routers ( even with NAT -- it will sync firewall/nat state ) .
It handles firewall rule changes gracefully by not destroying existing firewall states.pfSense evolved from monowall and has more features at the cost of being a bit more heavyweight .
It 's a larger install , but supports more recent hardware .
Monowall might work how you want.In all honesty , if you need to spend $ 300k on a router , you 're way past what something off the shelf hardware can do ( in terms of performance ) and you 're looking at something that does the routing in an ASIC/FPGA.Cisco will support the most features ( doing most of it in hardware , emulating everything else in software ) .
Foundry ( now Brocade ) and Force10 will do some insane routing throughput , and at line speed .
I want to say the Force10 E600 we have at work will do 50gbit/sec of throughput and our Foundry RX16 will support around 640gbit .
Both Foundry ' and Force10 's philosophy is , for the most part , " if we ca n't do it in hardware , we do n't .
" They 'll do things like spanning tree and BGP on the CPU , but anything related to getting a frame/frame from A-to-B is in an ASIC.So yeah , if you 're looking for a cheap embedded solution , you 're golden .
Get up to 10 gigabit and you start running into latency problems and I/O issues that you ca n't solve by swapping out an OS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've used pfsense for quite a while.
It's an embedded version of FreeBSD, which uses OpenBSD's pf.
It works pretty well, and supports CARP (patent free VRRP) so you can have redundant routers (even with NAT -- it will sync firewall/nat state).
It handles firewall rule changes gracefully by not destroying existing firewall states.pfSense evolved from monowall and has more features at the cost of being a bit more heavyweight.
It's a larger install, but supports more recent hardware.
Monowall might work how you want.In all honesty, if you need to spend $300k on a router, you're way past what something off the shelf hardware can do (in terms of performance) and you're looking at something that does the routing in an ASIC/FPGA.Cisco will support the most features (doing most of it in hardware, emulating everything else in software).
Foundry (now Brocade) and Force10 will do some insane routing throughput, and at line speed.
I want to say the Force10 E600 we have at work will do 50gbit/sec of throughput and our Foundry RX16 will support around 640gbit.
Both Foundry' and Force10's philosophy is, for the most part, "if we can't do it in hardware, we don't.
" They'll do things like spanning tree and BGP on the CPU, but anything related to getting a frame/frame from A-to-B is in an ASIC.So yeah, if you're looking for a cheap embedded solution, you're golden.
Get up to 10 gigabit and you start running into latency problems and I/O issues that you can't solve by swapping out an OS.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771250</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30773266</id>
	<title>Nagios, ssh, airOS</title>
	<author>MrKaos</author>
	<datestamp>1263474960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You can make ssh plugins with Nagios, AirOS supports ssh and key exchange. You should be able to achieve most things with that combination, what is it you are trying to do?</p><p>
MicroTik has a strong API, have you tried doing what you need to do by using that?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You can make ssh plugins with Nagios , AirOS supports ssh and key exchange .
You should be able to achieve most things with that combination , what is it you are trying to do ?
MicroTik has a strong API , have you tried doing what you need to do by using that ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can make ssh plugins with Nagios, AirOS supports ssh and key exchange.
You should be able to achieve most things with that combination, what is it you are trying to do?
MicroTik has a strong API, have you tried doing what you need to do by using that?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771770</id>
	<title>Mikrotik</title>
	<author>VonSkippy</author>
	<datestamp>1263467580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You say: " I've used Mikrotik's RouterOS for five years, but it just isn't built for what I need."</p><p>What exactly isn't it built for?</p><p>Mikrotik has numerous large WISP's (+5000 seats) running on Mikrotik Software and hardware.</p><p>Have you contacted Mikrotik's engineers with your "problem"?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You say : " I 've used Mikrotik 's RouterOS for five years , but it just is n't built for what I need .
" What exactly is n't it built for ? Mikrotik has numerous large WISP 's ( + 5000 seats ) running on Mikrotik Software and hardware.Have you contacted Mikrotik 's engineers with your " problem " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You say: " I've used Mikrotik's RouterOS for five years, but it just isn't built for what I need.
"What exactly isn't it built for?Mikrotik has numerous large WISP's (+5000 seats) running on Mikrotik Software and hardware.Have you contacted Mikrotik's engineers with your "problem"?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771368</id>
	<title>Erm... Requirements?</title>
	<author>teqo</author>
	<datestamp>1263465780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>So AirControl "doesn't play well with other network monitoring software" (which one, and why?), and MikroTik "isn't built for what [you] need" (what's that?) - other than that, you don't give us any idea what you really expect. What are your requirements?

Suggestions out of the blue: <a href="http://openwrt.org/" title="openwrt.org">OpenWRT</a> [openwrt.org] with quagga/zebra, hostapd, radius, olsrd, b.a.t.m.a.n. etc. etc, or you might want to have a look at <a href="http://www.vyatta.com/products/index.php" title="vyatta.com">Vyatta</a> [vyatta.com] (no affiliation).</htmltext>
<tokenext>So AirControl " does n't play well with other network monitoring software " ( which one , and why ?
) , and MikroTik " is n't built for what [ you ] need " ( what 's that ?
) - other than that , you do n't give us any idea what you really expect .
What are your requirements ?
Suggestions out of the blue : OpenWRT [ openwrt.org ] with quagga/zebra , hostapd , radius , olsrd , b.a.t.m.a.n .
etc. etc , or you might want to have a look at Vyatta [ vyatta.com ] ( no affiliation ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So AirControl "doesn't play well with other network monitoring software" (which one, and why?
), and MikroTik "isn't built for what [you] need" (what's that?
) - other than that, you don't give us any idea what you really expect.
What are your requirements?
Suggestions out of the blue: OpenWRT [openwrt.org] with quagga/zebra, hostapd, radius, olsrd, b.a.t.m.a.n.
etc. etc, or you might want to have a look at Vyatta [vyatta.com] (no affiliation).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30775160</id>
	<title>IMHO</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263488820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Security as always as an after thought.  This should be a foundation for your plans.  If you don't care about exposing your customers to every half competent wardriver or script kiddy wifi cracker going then any distro and hardware can  potentially do.  If you wan to instill your customers with a sense of security while on your network you need to lay out the proper security framework first.  We have a local wisp who is using OOB mid grade hardware and leasing tower  space from local towers.  One issue a client of mine recently had was mac address spoofing.  They found out after bringing in the proper people that someone down the road was using a yagi and about $500 worth of hardware to get free internet.   It could have been worse but it could have been avoided.  Please try to think about getting the right security [i]and[/i]  "good open-source/cheap hardware/software " in place if you haven't already</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Security as always as an after thought .
This should be a foundation for your plans .
If you do n't care about exposing your customers to every half competent wardriver or script kiddy wifi cracker going then any distro and hardware can potentially do .
If you wan to instill your customers with a sense of security while on your network you need to lay out the proper security framework first .
We have a local wisp who is using OOB mid grade hardware and leasing tower space from local towers .
One issue a client of mine recently had was mac address spoofing .
They found out after bringing in the proper people that someone down the road was using a yagi and about $ 500 worth of hardware to get free internet .
It could have been worse but it could have been avoided .
Please try to think about getting the right security [ i ] and [ /i ] " good open-source/cheap hardware/software " in place if you have n't already</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Security as always as an after thought.
This should be a foundation for your plans.
If you don't care about exposing your customers to every half competent wardriver or script kiddy wifi cracker going then any distro and hardware can  potentially do.
If you wan to instill your customers with a sense of security while on your network you need to lay out the proper security framework first.
We have a local wisp who is using OOB mid grade hardware and leasing tower  space from local towers.
One issue a client of mine recently had was mac address spoofing.
They found out after bringing in the proper people that someone down the road was using a yagi and about $500 worth of hardware to get free internet.
It could have been worse but it could have been avoided.
Please try to think about getting the right security [i]and[/i]  "good open-source/cheap hardware/software " in place if you haven't already</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30778834</id>
	<title>Astaro</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263570420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Try Astaro</p><p>http://www.astaro.com/</p><p>It's not free but they offer hardware and software solutions. They are open source based and are a good FOSS player. They seem to have products that should be able to scale up to what you want. I got a copy running at home and it works great.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Try Astarohttp : //www.astaro.com/It 's not free but they offer hardware and software solutions .
They are open source based and are a good FOSS player .
They seem to have products that should be able to scale up to what you want .
I got a copy running at home and it works great .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try Astarohttp://www.astaro.com/It's not free but they offer hardware and software solutions.
They are open source based and are a good FOSS player.
They seem to have products that should be able to scale up to what you want.
I got a copy running at home and it works great.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771784</id>
	<title>pfSense</title>
	<author>mhab12</author>
	<datestamp>1263467640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Give pfSense a try.  <a href="http://www.pfsense.org/" title="pfsense.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.pfsense.org/</a> [pfsense.org]  Also a VERY active user forum at <a href="http://forum.pfsense.org/" title="pfsense.org" rel="nofollow">http://forum.pfsense.org/</a> [pfsense.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Give pfSense a try .
http : //www.pfsense.org/ [ pfsense.org ] Also a VERY active user forum at http : //forum.pfsense.org/ [ pfsense.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Give pfSense a try.
http://www.pfsense.org/ [pfsense.org]  Also a VERY active user forum at http://forum.pfsense.org/ [pfsense.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30774362</id>
	<title>Re:Hire someone who knows what they are doing.</title>
	<author>uvajed\_ekil</author>
	<datestamp>1263482100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>The fact that you are asking on slashdot shows that you are not qualified, and what you're going to get back is a bunch of others, who aren't qualified, suggesting all sorts of half assed hacks to do it which will just result in a utterly shitty service overall.</i> <br> <br>
Seriously? That's your answer? You think this is <i>that</i> hard, and you presume that no experts or professionals read and contribute to slashdot? There is plenty of good advice in this thread, though this is not it. My area of expertise is not ISP infrastructure, but I know a project of this size and scope is not necessarily impossible for someone who doesn't do it all the time. My advice for the original poster is to formulate a complete plan before beginning work - complete as in have every bit of hardware figured out, know exactly what software will be running where, allow twice as much time as you think you will need, test and test some more before going live, and plan for budgetary contingencies. Throwing ungodly sums of money at a problem isn't the only way to do it full-assed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The fact that you are asking on slashdot shows that you are not qualified , and what you 're going to get back is a bunch of others , who are n't qualified , suggesting all sorts of half assed hacks to do it which will just result in a utterly shitty service overall .
Seriously ? That 's your answer ?
You think this is that hard , and you presume that no experts or professionals read and contribute to slashdot ?
There is plenty of good advice in this thread , though this is not it .
My area of expertise is not ISP infrastructure , but I know a project of this size and scope is not necessarily impossible for someone who does n't do it all the time .
My advice for the original poster is to formulate a complete plan before beginning work - complete as in have every bit of hardware figured out , know exactly what software will be running where , allow twice as much time as you think you will need , test and test some more before going live , and plan for budgetary contingencies .
Throwing ungodly sums of money at a problem is n't the only way to do it full-assed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The fact that you are asking on slashdot shows that you are not qualified, and what you're going to get back is a bunch of others, who aren't qualified, suggesting all sorts of half assed hacks to do it which will just result in a utterly shitty service overall.
Seriously? That's your answer?
You think this is that hard, and you presume that no experts or professionals read and contribute to slashdot?
There is plenty of good advice in this thread, though this is not it.
My area of expertise is not ISP infrastructure, but I know a project of this size and scope is not necessarily impossible for someone who doesn't do it all the time.
My advice for the original poster is to formulate a complete plan before beginning work - complete as in have every bit of hardware figured out, know exactly what software will be running where, allow twice as much time as you think you will need, test and test some more before going live, and plan for budgetary contingencies.
Throwing ungodly sums of money at a problem isn't the only way to do it full-assed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30778928</id>
	<title>VYATTA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263571020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Try vyatta, it can be usefull.</p><p>Regards</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Try vyatta , it can be usefull.Regards</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try vyatta, it can be usefull.Regards</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771888</id>
	<title>Mesh technology</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263468240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If your seriously looking at going the ISP level, you shouldn't be messing around with second-hand or non-isp class hardware.</p><p>&lt;slashvertisment&gt;</p><p>You could always try contacting a company that actually does this for themselves and provides hardware/software for others to do the same thing.  I'd -highly- recommend going with a mesh-based technology to add redundancy to your infrastructure.  <a href="http://www.cambridgematrix.co.uk/" title="cambridgematrix.co.uk" rel="nofollow">Cambridge Matrix</a> [cambridgematrix.co.uk] has some pretty good kit.</p><p>&lt;/slashvertisment&gt;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If your seriously looking at going the ISP level , you should n't be messing around with second-hand or non-isp class hardware.You could always try contacting a company that actually does this for themselves and provides hardware/software for others to do the same thing .
I 'd -highly- recommend going with a mesh-based technology to add redundancy to your infrastructure .
Cambridge Matrix [ cambridgematrix.co.uk ] has some pretty good kit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If your seriously looking at going the ISP level, you shouldn't be messing around with second-hand or non-isp class hardware.You could always try contacting a company that actually does this for themselves and provides hardware/software for others to do the same thing.
I'd -highly- recommend going with a mesh-based technology to add redundancy to your infrastructure.
Cambridge Matrix [cambridgematrix.co.uk] has some pretty good kit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771320</id>
	<title>DD WRT</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263465600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://www.dd-wrt.com/site/index</p><p>It's Linux on low cost wireless routers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.dd-wrt.com/site/indexIt 's Linux on low cost wireless routers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.dd-wrt.com/site/indexIt's Linux on low cost wireless routers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771416</id>
	<title>Screw Linux</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263466020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why does it have to be linux? Use <a href="http://www.pfsense.org/" title="pfsense.org">pfSense</a> [pfsense.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why does it have to be linux ?
Use pfSense [ pfsense.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why does it have to be linux?
Use pfSense [pfsense.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30773322</id>
	<title>A suggestion</title>
	<author>scottraynel</author>
	<datestamp>1263475260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>RuralLink Ltd (yes, I work for them) does what you want, linux-based wireless network management. Get in touch with us at <a href="http://www.rurallink.co.nz/contact-us" title="rurallink.co.nz" rel="nofollow">http://www.rurallink.co.nz/contact-us</a> [rurallink.co.nz] </p><p>There's not a lot of info about that side of things on the website, but if you contact us we'll be happy to chat - and don't worry, we're all techs, there's no sales droids here.</p><p>Cheers,</p><p>Scott.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>RuralLink Ltd ( yes , I work for them ) does what you want , linux-based wireless network management .
Get in touch with us at http : //www.rurallink.co.nz/contact-us [ rurallink.co.nz ] There 's not a lot of info about that side of things on the website , but if you contact us we 'll be happy to chat - and do n't worry , we 're all techs , there 's no sales droids here.Cheers,Scott .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>RuralLink Ltd (yes, I work for them) does what you want, linux-based wireless network management.
Get in touch with us at http://www.rurallink.co.nz/contact-us [rurallink.co.nz] There's not a lot of info about that side of things on the website, but if you contact us we'll be happy to chat - and don't worry, we're all techs, there's no sales droids here.Cheers,Scott.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30828220</id>
	<title>Re:Erm... Requirements?</title>
	<author>jeffstar</author>
	<datestamp>1263920820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>mikrotik are a bunch of latvian asshats. Their software has lots of features that are half implemented and partially tested. I'd wager they are GPL violators as well. The mikrotik routerboards are pretty solid though. can't say the same for their wireless cards, get ubiquity wireless cards.</p><p>That being said mikrotik routerboards hit the price point. That being said I can't wait for ubiquity products on OpenWRT (I think airos is based on openwrt?) to overtake them for usable features.</p><p>If linux can do it, so can all these devices that run linux.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>mikrotik are a bunch of latvian asshats .
Their software has lots of features that are half implemented and partially tested .
I 'd wager they are GPL violators as well .
The mikrotik routerboards are pretty solid though .
ca n't say the same for their wireless cards , get ubiquity wireless cards.That being said mikrotik routerboards hit the price point .
That being said I ca n't wait for ubiquity products on OpenWRT ( I think airos is based on openwrt ?
) to overtake them for usable features.If linux can do it , so can all these devices that run linux .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>mikrotik are a bunch of latvian asshats.
Their software has lots of features that are half implemented and partially tested.
I'd wager they are GPL violators as well.
The mikrotik routerboards are pretty solid though.
can't say the same for their wireless cards, get ubiquity wireless cards.That being said mikrotik routerboards hit the price point.
That being said I can't wait for ubiquity products on OpenWRT (I think airos is based on openwrt?
) to overtake them for usable features.If linux can do it, so can all these devices that run linux.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771368</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30775870</id>
	<title>Re:DD WRT</title>
	<author>ParanoidJanitor</author>
	<datestamp>1263497880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Like others have said, DD-WRT is for consumer grade hardware.  Since DD-WRT is closed-source, you can't recompile it for anything else.  However, nothing is stopping anyone from taking the OpenWRT source and compiling it for a more powerful router.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Like others have said , DD-WRT is for consumer grade hardware .
Since DD-WRT is closed-source , you ca n't recompile it for anything else .
However , nothing is stopping anyone from taking the OpenWRT source and compiling it for a more powerful router .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Like others have said, DD-WRT is for consumer grade hardware.
Since DD-WRT is closed-source, you can't recompile it for anything else.
However, nothing is stopping anyone from taking the OpenWRT source and compiling it for a more powerful router.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771320</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30773148</id>
	<title>OBSD or pfSense</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263474120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My history is: started on OBSD (due to hardware support, ironically); played w/ FBSD; ended up on pfSense.</p><p>My observations:<br>OBSD is absurdly security conscious... for ISPs especially, this is a good thing.<br>OBSD tends to have a lot of focus on new network features (pf, carp)<br>most OBSD features get ported to FBSD... but take time (look into carpdev)</p><p>pfSense (built on FBSD) has some overhead vs FBSD raw (obviously), but has *nice* management UI, package support, etc<br>customizations are easy for pfSense (I added some features to dhcpd a while back)... easier than generating the diff and submitting it<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)<br>pfSense is more focused on network features (they're working on fixing carpdev for FBSD)</p><p>I like pfSense a lot... I use it for routing between ~6 VLANs, IPSec tunnels with another pfSense, PPTP server, *tight* firewall rules (given 6 VLANs).</p><p>pfSense 2 will be adding a lot of nice features for businesses (multiple admin accounts, different permission levels, etc)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My history is : started on OBSD ( due to hardware support , ironically ) ; played w/ FBSD ; ended up on pfSense.My observations : OBSD is absurdly security conscious... for ISPs especially , this is a good thing.OBSD tends to have a lot of focus on new network features ( pf , carp ) most OBSD features get ported to FBSD... but take time ( look into carpdev ) pfSense ( built on FBSD ) has some overhead vs FBSD raw ( obviously ) , but has * nice * management UI , package support , etccustomizations are easy for pfSense ( I added some features to dhcpd a while back ) ... easier than generating the diff and submitting it ; ) pfSense is more focused on network features ( they 're working on fixing carpdev for FBSD ) I like pfSense a lot... I use it for routing between ~ 6 VLANs , IPSec tunnels with another pfSense , PPTP server , * tight * firewall rules ( given 6 VLANs ) .pfSense 2 will be adding a lot of nice features for businesses ( multiple admin accounts , different permission levels , etc )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My history is: started on OBSD (due to hardware support, ironically); played w/ FBSD; ended up on pfSense.My observations:OBSD is absurdly security conscious... for ISPs especially, this is a good thing.OBSD tends to have a lot of focus on new network features (pf, carp)most OBSD features get ported to FBSD... but take time (look into carpdev)pfSense (built on FBSD) has some overhead vs FBSD raw (obviously), but has *nice* management UI, package support, etccustomizations are easy for pfSense (I added some features to dhcpd a while back)... easier than generating the diff and submitting it ;)pfSense is more focused on network features (they're working on fixing carpdev for FBSD)I like pfSense a lot... I use it for routing between ~6 VLANs, IPSec tunnels with another pfSense, PPTP server, *tight* firewall rules (given 6 VLANs).pfSense 2 will be adding a lot of nice features for businesses (multiple admin accounts, different permission levels, etc)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30777872</id>
	<title>astaro</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263565080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Astaro Community is free, linux based, germab developers, it's great and it checks for updates. the limit is only on the number of hosts.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Astaro Community is free , linux based , germab developers , it 's great and it checks for updates .
the limit is only on the number of hosts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Astaro Community is free, linux based, germab developers, it's great and it checks for updates.
the limit is only on the number of hosts.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771504</id>
	<title>Re:Are you serious, or just killing time?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263466380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>So Cisco makes billions of dollars a year selling some ungodly expensive, ungodly powerful head end router like devices (not even routers in the IP sense) and somehow you suspect a Linux distribution with the same features is going to unpack itself and be everything you want it to be?  You need to tell us what the rest of your platform looks like if you expect any answers that go beyond 'any linux distribution can act like a router!'.  What subscriber equipment is in use?  How much user control do you need (access on/off vs. bandwidth filtering, etc.)  Details, details, details.</p></div><p> Why, yes. And?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>So Cisco makes billions of dollars a year selling some ungodly expensive , ungodly powerful head end router like devices ( not even routers in the IP sense ) and somehow you suspect a Linux distribution with the same features is going to unpack itself and be everything you want it to be ?
You need to tell us what the rest of your platform looks like if you expect any answers that go beyond 'any linux distribution can act like a router ! ' .
What subscriber equipment is in use ?
How much user control do you need ( access on/off vs. bandwidth filtering , etc .
) Details , details , details .
Why , yes .
And ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So Cisco makes billions of dollars a year selling some ungodly expensive, ungodly powerful head end router like devices (not even routers in the IP sense) and somehow you suspect a Linux distribution with the same features is going to unpack itself and be everything you want it to be?
You need to tell us what the rest of your platform looks like if you expect any answers that go beyond 'any linux distribution can act like a router!'.
What subscriber equipment is in use?
How much user control do you need (access on/off vs. bandwidth filtering, etc.
)  Details, details, details.
Why, yes.
And?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771434</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30774638</id>
	<title>Re:Are you serious, or just killing time?</title>
	<author>fibrewire</author>
	<datestamp>1263484320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm thinking along the lines of a Nvidia Tesla running <a href="http://www.xorp.org/" title="xorp.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.xorp.org/</a> [xorp.org] - any ideas?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm thinking along the lines of a Nvidia Tesla running http : //www.xorp.org/ [ xorp.org ] - any ideas ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm thinking along the lines of a Nvidia Tesla running http://www.xorp.org/ [xorp.org] - any ideas?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772018</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30776108</id>
	<title>Re:Are you serious, or just killing time?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263587400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>ASICs offload processing power from the cpu as dedicated hardware. But the PC you are running linux on likely has a CPU that is at least 10x as fast as that in the CISCO routers (and use a lot more power) so they can keep up.</p><p>This is one of those things that is as much about marketing as reality. There are no shortage of hardware appliance network boxes like BIG-IP LTM/GTM and Bluecoat ProxySG's that cost tens of thousands of dollars and are nothing more than BSD/Linux rack mounted PC's in a fancy case. These devices have no trouble handling enterprise loads (which is about the only place $50k+ pieces of equipment will be found in the racks).</p><p>The linux box does consume much more power to accomplish the task than the cisco with its ASICs but the raw power is definitely there. A more significant concern than the processing is the bus speed. I doubt that is a problem if he is concerned about an $800 software license (mentioned in a suggestion earlier) in that kind of budget range he isn't going to have links that could tax the bus.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>ASICs offload processing power from the cpu as dedicated hardware .
But the PC you are running linux on likely has a CPU that is at least 10x as fast as that in the CISCO routers ( and use a lot more power ) so they can keep up.This is one of those things that is as much about marketing as reality .
There are no shortage of hardware appliance network boxes like BIG-IP LTM/GTM and Bluecoat ProxySG 's that cost tens of thousands of dollars and are nothing more than BSD/Linux rack mounted PC 's in a fancy case .
These devices have no trouble handling enterprise loads ( which is about the only place $ 50k + pieces of equipment will be found in the racks ) .The linux box does consume much more power to accomplish the task than the cisco with its ASICs but the raw power is definitely there .
A more significant concern than the processing is the bus speed .
I doubt that is a problem if he is concerned about an $ 800 software license ( mentioned in a suggestion earlier ) in that kind of budget range he is n't going to have links that could tax the bus .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ASICs offload processing power from the cpu as dedicated hardware.
But the PC you are running linux on likely has a CPU that is at least 10x as fast as that in the CISCO routers (and use a lot more power) so they can keep up.This is one of those things that is as much about marketing as reality.
There are no shortage of hardware appliance network boxes like BIG-IP LTM/GTM and Bluecoat ProxySG's that cost tens of thousands of dollars and are nothing more than BSD/Linux rack mounted PC's in a fancy case.
These devices have no trouble handling enterprise loads (which is about the only place $50k+ pieces of equipment will be found in the racks).The linux box does consume much more power to accomplish the task than the cisco with its ASICs but the raw power is definitely there.
A more significant concern than the processing is the bus speed.
I doubt that is a problem if he is concerned about an $800 software license (mentioned in a suggestion earlier) in that kind of budget range he isn't going to have links that could tax the bus.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772018</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771820</id>
	<title>Big Sur Wireless</title>
	<author>north.coaster</author>
	<datestamp>1263467880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's a small wireless ISP located in the Big Sur area of California that seems to have been up and running for a few years now.  Maybe the OP wants to build a system like <a href="http://bigsurwireless.com/" title="bigsurwireless.com">Big Sur Wireless</a> [bigsurwireless.com].  Their web site includes a lot of details about their homebrew system.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's a small wireless ISP located in the Big Sur area of California that seems to have been up and running for a few years now .
Maybe the OP wants to build a system like Big Sur Wireless [ bigsurwireless.com ] .
Their web site includes a lot of details about their homebrew system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's a small wireless ISP located in the Big Sur area of California that seems to have been up and running for a few years now.
Maybe the OP wants to build a system like Big Sur Wireless [bigsurwireless.com].
Their web site includes a lot of details about their homebrew system.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30773288</id>
	<title>Re:Mutually exclusive</title>
	<author>MrKaos</author>
	<datestamp>1263475080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>To my humble opinion, a good ISP needs to have good reliable equipement.</p></div> </blockquote><p>
I don't think that is the point. Motorola's commercial gear does not support nearly the functionality AirOS and MicroTik do. It's great gear - you just can't make it do some of the stuff you need to do.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>To my humble opinion , a good ISP needs to have good reliable equipement .
I do n't think that is the point .
Motorola 's commercial gear does not support nearly the functionality AirOS and MicroTik do .
It 's great gear - you just ca n't make it do some of the stuff you need to do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To my humble opinion, a good ISP needs to have good reliable equipement.
I don't think that is the point.
Motorola's commercial gear does not support nearly the functionality AirOS and MicroTik do.
It's great gear - you just can't make it do some of the stuff you need to do.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771598</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772488</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263471060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm gonna go with "zeroshell" zeroshell.org. It appears to clearly favor security, configurability and ease of use. Additionally, the developers have a clear understanding of networks and what is really necessary to get things done.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm gon na go with " zeroshell " zeroshell.org .
It appears to clearly favor security , configurability and ease of use .
Additionally , the developers have a clear understanding of networks and what is really necessary to get things done .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm gonna go with "zeroshell" zeroshell.org.
It appears to clearly favor security, configurability and ease of use.
Additionally, the developers have a clear understanding of networks and what is really necessary to get things done.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30776682</id>
	<title>Re:Mutually exclusive</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263551820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I second pfSense, awesome.....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I second pfSense , awesome.... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I second pfSense, awesome.....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30772622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30775182</id>
	<title>FreeBSD, BGP, OSPF, pf</title>
	<author>itzdandy</author>
	<datestamp>1263489120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously, learn to love FreeBSD.</p><p>I am assuming that you will be doing a tree style network with a central location providing you bandwidth on a fiber link or T1/T3 etc.</p><p>Get a PAIR(at least, add more as necessary) of nice, quad core Dell Poweredge or HP DL series servers.  FreeBSD+CARP them giving you as seamless load balancing/fail over as you can realistically get.<br>at each hub consider either buying commercial wireless routers or build your own.  If you build just keep everything fanless as that is where your equipment will fail you.<br>Use OSPF on branches while being aware of scaling issues and where OSPF isnt ideal, kick in the BGP and you can link your OSPF clusters together giving an extra level on branch redundancy because traffic can hop to another branch if necessary.</p><p>OLSR in mesh cells, OSPF on the cells backhaul router linking these cells and providing multiple route options for redundancy, and BGP between groups of cells and between you and other ISPs etc etc.</p><p>You dont need to take the Mesh down to the client, only to the neighborhood AP level.  The idea of mesh per client creates too many hopps and clients have too much latency.  Ideally, you are no more that a 2-4 hops from the backbone, any more and you are going to be adding too much latency from the hops.  When a backhaul link goes down and the OSPF saves your butt by routing traffic through a neighboring cell, you are already going to add latency and you dont need that complicated by 6 hops in the neighborhood and 5 more to the backbone (11 hops over wireless is just too many for broadband).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously , learn to love FreeBSD.I am assuming that you will be doing a tree style network with a central location providing you bandwidth on a fiber link or T1/T3 etc.Get a PAIR ( at least , add more as necessary ) of nice , quad core Dell Poweredge or HP DL series servers .
FreeBSD + CARP them giving you as seamless load balancing/fail over as you can realistically get.at each hub consider either buying commercial wireless routers or build your own .
If you build just keep everything fanless as that is where your equipment will fail you.Use OSPF on branches while being aware of scaling issues and where OSPF isnt ideal , kick in the BGP and you can link your OSPF clusters together giving an extra level on branch redundancy because traffic can hop to another branch if necessary.OLSR in mesh cells , OSPF on the cells backhaul router linking these cells and providing multiple route options for redundancy , and BGP between groups of cells and between you and other ISPs etc etc.You dont need to take the Mesh down to the client , only to the neighborhood AP level .
The idea of mesh per client creates too many hopps and clients have too much latency .
Ideally , you are no more that a 2-4 hops from the backbone , any more and you are going to be adding too much latency from the hops .
When a backhaul link goes down and the OSPF saves your butt by routing traffic through a neighboring cell , you are already going to add latency and you dont need that complicated by 6 hops in the neighborhood and 5 more to the backbone ( 11 hops over wireless is just too many for broadband ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously, learn to love FreeBSD.I am assuming that you will be doing a tree style network with a central location providing you bandwidth on a fiber link or T1/T3 etc.Get a PAIR(at least, add more as necessary) of nice, quad core Dell Poweredge or HP DL series servers.
FreeBSD+CARP them giving you as seamless load balancing/fail over as you can realistically get.at each hub consider either buying commercial wireless routers or build your own.
If you build just keep everything fanless as that is where your equipment will fail you.Use OSPF on branches while being aware of scaling issues and where OSPF isnt ideal, kick in the BGP and you can link your OSPF clusters together giving an extra level on branch redundancy because traffic can hop to another branch if necessary.OLSR in mesh cells, OSPF on the cells backhaul router linking these cells and providing multiple route options for redundancy, and BGP between groups of cells and between you and other ISPs etc etc.You dont need to take the Mesh down to the client, only to the neighborhood AP level.
The idea of mesh per client creates too many hopps and clients have too much latency.
Ideally, you are no more that a 2-4 hops from the backbone, any more and you are going to be adding too much latency from the hops.
When a backhaul link goes down and the OSPF saves your butt by routing traffic through a neighboring cell, you are already going to add latency and you dont need that complicated by 6 hops in the neighborhood and 5 more to the backbone (11 hops over wireless is just too many for broadband).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30773264</id>
	<title>Buy used.</title>
	<author>roc97007</author>
	<datestamp>1263474900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Why not buy used Cisco routers?  In the current economy, you should be able to make some pretty sweet deals.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why not buy used Cisco routers ?
In the current economy , you should be able to make some pretty sweet deals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Why not buy used Cisco routers?
In the current economy, you should be able to make some pretty sweet deals.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30787990</id>
	<title>Have you looked into Vyatta yet?</title>
	<author>bmullan</author>
	<datestamp>1263579360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Vyata builds open source routing.

<a href="http://www.vyatta.com/products/software\_subscriptions.php" title="vyatta.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.vyatta.com/products/software\_subscriptions.php</a> [vyatta.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Vyata builds open source routing .
http : //www.vyatta.com/products/software \ _subscriptions.php [ vyatta.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Vyata builds open source routing.
http://www.vyatta.com/products/software\_subscriptions.php [vyatta.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30774262</id>
	<title>Get Real</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263481440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You mention the UBR (Universal Broadband Router) specifically in your remarks. The UBR 10K which the poster refers to is not only a router but a CMTS (Cable Modem Termination System) as well. I guarantee you will not be able to turn a Linux box with some PCI cards into a DOCSIS head-end serving one cable modem let alone thousands of cable subscribers. You are way out of your league if you need service provider grade gear and 300k scares you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You mention the UBR ( Universal Broadband Router ) specifically in your remarks .
The UBR 10K which the poster refers to is not only a router but a CMTS ( Cable Modem Termination System ) as well .
I guarantee you will not be able to turn a Linux box with some PCI cards into a DOCSIS head-end serving one cable modem let alone thousands of cable subscribers .
You are way out of your league if you need service provider grade gear and 300k scares you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You mention the UBR (Universal Broadband Router) specifically in your remarks.
The UBR 10K which the poster refers to is not only a router but a CMTS (Cable Modem Termination System) as well.
I guarantee you will not be able to turn a Linux box with some PCI cards into a DOCSIS head-end serving one cable modem let alone thousands of cable subscribers.
You are way out of your league if you need service provider grade gear and 300k scares you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_2053244.30771366</id>
	<title>http://www.vyatta.com/</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263465780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://www.vyatta.com/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.vyatta.com/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.vyatta.com/</sentencetext>
</comment>
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