<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_01_13_2159231</id>
	<title>US DOJ Says Kindle In Classroom Hurts Blind Students</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1263381600000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.goodgearguide.com.au/" rel="nofollow">angry tapir</a> writes <i>"Three US universities will stop promoting the use of Amazon.com's Kindle DX e-book reader in classrooms after complaints that the device <a href="http://www.goodgearguide.com.au/article/332405">doesn't give blind students equal access to information</a>. Settlements with Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Pace University in New York City and Reed College in Portland, Oregon, were announced Wednesday by the US Department of Justice. The National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind had complained that use of the Kindle devices discriminates against students with vision problems."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>angry tapir writes " Three US universities will stop promoting the use of Amazon.com 's Kindle DX e-book reader in classrooms after complaints that the device does n't give blind students equal access to information .
Settlements with Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland , Pace University in New York City and Reed College in Portland , Oregon , were announced Wednesday by the US Department of Justice .
The National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind had complained that use of the Kindle devices discriminates against students with vision problems .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>angry tapir writes "Three US universities will stop promoting the use of Amazon.com's Kindle DX e-book reader in classrooms after complaints that the device doesn't give blind students equal access to information.
Settlements with Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Pace University in New York City and Reed College in Portland, Oregon, were announced Wednesday by the US Department of Justice.
The National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind had complained that use of the Kindle devices discriminates against students with vision problems.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30760500</id>
	<title>Turn down the brightness</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263400620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well obviously if it hurts than turn down the brightness.... ohh wait too soon?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well obviously if it hurts than turn down the brightness.... ohh wait too soon ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well obviously if it hurts than turn down the brightness.... ohh wait too soon?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30760420</id>
	<title>Re:Lot of people misreading the case</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263400080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That is one of the most absurd analogies I have heard. Let's assume you are 4' 2". Then assume that a contractor in your area is building houses with all of the door knobs at the top of each door. Would you sue? Of course . .<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NOT! You could just buy a different house with properly-place door knobs, or you could buy one of the goofy door-knob-at-the-top-of-each-door house at a large discount, get a step ladder and reinstall all of the door knobs at a more appropriate height.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That is one of the most absurd analogies I have heard .
Let 's assume you are 4 ' 2 " .
Then assume that a contractor in your area is building houses with all of the door knobs at the top of each door .
Would you sue ?
Of course .
. .NOT !
You could just buy a different house with properly-place door knobs , or you could buy one of the goofy door-knob-at-the-top-of-each-door house at a large discount , get a step ladder and reinstall all of the door knobs at a more appropriate height .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is one of the most absurd analogies I have heard.
Let's assume you are 4' 2".
Then assume that a contractor in your area is building houses with all of the door knobs at the top of each door.
Would you sue?
Of course .
. .NOT!
You could just buy a different house with properly-place door knobs, or you could buy one of the goofy door-knob-at-the-top-of-each-door house at a large discount, get a step ladder and reinstall all of the door knobs at a more appropriate height.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758614</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758230</id>
	<title>Re:ADA?</title>
	<author>ceoyoyo</author>
	<datestamp>1263386220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Interesting.  We used to do that without being told to.</p><p>For example: uh, professor, I have an, um, medical thing I have to do the day of the exam.  Do you think I could write it next week instead?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Interesting .
We used to do that without being told to.For example : uh , professor , I have an , um , medical thing I have to do the day of the exam .
Do you think I could write it next week instead ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Interesting.
We used to do that without being told to.For example: uh, professor, I have an, um, medical thing I have to do the day of the exam.
Do you think I could write it next week instead?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758014</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30766932</id>
	<title>Re:Lot of people misreading the case</title>
	<author>Wovel</author>
	<datestamp>1263493860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ack. Look ma someone else who can't read the article but is still able to post.  Kindle supports text-to-speech only disabled when a publisher disables it for a specific piece of content.  Issue is no audio in menus, Amazon is currently fixing.  Stop blamey Amazon - you go blamey publisher is text-to-speech disabley. Please read the article prior to any additional responses.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ack .
Look ma someone else who ca n't read the article but is still able to post .
Kindle supports text-to-speech only disabled when a publisher disables it for a specific piece of content .
Issue is no audio in menus , Amazon is currently fixing .
Stop blamey Amazon - you go blamey publisher is text-to-speech disabley .
Please read the article prior to any additional responses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ack.
Look ma someone else who can't read the article but is still able to post.
Kindle supports text-to-speech only disabled when a publisher disables it for a specific piece of content.
Issue is no audio in menus, Amazon is currently fixing.
Stop blamey Amazon - you go blamey publisher is text-to-speech disabley.
Please read the article prior to any additional responses.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758614</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758586</id>
	<title>Just get the blind student Braille e-book reader</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263387660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>God, just get the blind student Braille e-book reader instead!
<a href="http://images.google.com/images?ndsp=18&amp;hl=en&amp;um=1&amp;q=braille\%20e-book&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;sa=N&amp;tab=wi" title="google.com">http://images.google.com/images?ndsp=18&amp;hl=en&amp;um=1&amp;q=braille\%20e-book&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;sa=N&amp;tab=wi</a> [google.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>God , just get the blind student Braille e-book reader instead !
http : //images.google.com/images ? ndsp = 18&amp;hl = en&amp;um = 1&amp;q = braille \ % 20e-book&amp;ie = UTF-8&amp;sa = N&amp;tab = wi [ google.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>God, just get the blind student Braille e-book reader instead!
http://images.google.com/images?ndsp=18&amp;hl=en&amp;um=1&amp;q=braille\%20e-book&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;sa=N&amp;tab=wi [google.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758162</id>
	<title>oh god</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263386040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>maybe they can force sighted students to wear blindfolds in class in future so that the blind have equal footing</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>maybe they can force sighted students to wear blindfolds in class in future so that the blind have equal footing</tokentext>
<sentencetext>maybe they can force sighted students to wear blindfolds in class in future so that the blind have equal footing</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758942</id>
	<title>Re:The other Point of View (or lack thereof)</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263389220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If a device like the Kindle is used in the classroom what are visually impaired children supposed to do?</p> </div><p>Use other devices given to them (like Braille books)? "Use" doesn't have to mean "exclusive use", you know.</p><p>Or is someone bitter that they don't get all the latest shiny toys, and are therefore being discriminated?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If a device like the Kindle is used in the classroom what are visually impaired children supposed to do ?
Use other devices given to them ( like Braille books ) ?
" Use " does n't have to mean " exclusive use " , you know.Or is someone bitter that they do n't get all the latest shiny toys , and are therefore being discriminated ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If a device like the Kindle is used in the classroom what are visually impaired children supposed to do?
Use other devices given to them (like Braille books)?
"Use" doesn't have to mean "exclusive use", you know.Or is someone bitter that they don't get all the latest shiny toys, and are therefore being discriminated?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758394</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758086</id>
	<title>The settlement details will make you puke</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263385860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The settlement includes poking out the eyes of the blind kid's classmates.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The settlement includes poking out the eyes of the blind kid 's classmates .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The settlement includes poking out the eyes of the blind kid's classmates.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759296</id>
	<title>Re:ADA?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263391080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We were required to put that on our syllabi when I was a TA at a state university in the '90s.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We were required to put that on our syllabi when I was a TA at a state university in the '90s .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We were required to put that on our syllabi when I was a TA at a state university in the '90s.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758014</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758072</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm, this seems illogical.</title>
	<author>Ogive17</author>
	<datestamp>1263385740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well, books can be typed in braille, the kindle cannot...   The issue might be that with a kindle, the e-books are very accessible compared to your standard book (probably cheaper?).  Maybe the organization thinks it's an unfair advantage?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , books can be typed in braille , the kindle can not... The issue might be that with a kindle , the e-books are very accessible compared to your standard book ( probably cheaper ? ) .
Maybe the organization thinks it 's an unfair advantage ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, books can be typed in braille, the kindle cannot...   The issue might be that with a kindle, the e-books are very accessible compared to your standard book (probably cheaper?).
Maybe the organization thinks it's an unfair advantage?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30757968</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759472</id>
	<title>Re:Take away everyones eyes!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263391980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Couldn't normal students use the Kindle and blind students use braille editions of the same books?</p><p>At least then you'd save the cost of all the regular books.</p><p>I guess I don't see how handing out Kindles to people who can see hurts blind people anymore than having printed versions of books currently does.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Could n't normal students use the Kindle and blind students use braille editions of the same books ? At least then you 'd save the cost of all the regular books.I guess I do n't see how handing out Kindles to people who can see hurts blind people anymore than having printed versions of books currently does .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Couldn't normal students use the Kindle and blind students use braille editions of the same books?At least then you'd save the cost of all the regular books.I guess I don't see how handing out Kindles to people who can see hurts blind people anymore than having printed versions of books currently does.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758412</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758756</id>
	<title>Re:Have the blind sued the car makers?</title>
	<author>DriedClexler</author>
	<datestamp>1263388440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The irony is that it's probably the threat of lawsuits that's *keeping* the blind from being able drive themselves.</p><p>Driverless cars are pretty much ready to be put on the market, but very few want to take the risk.  If a sighted driver kills someone while driving, their insurance pays you maybe a half million.  If it's a larger corporation's automated driving system (which would tremendously benefit the blind) causes someone to die -- even if it's at a significantly lower rate than normal drivers kill people -- they will have to pay a lot more because, hey, they have deep pockets.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The irony is that it 's probably the threat of lawsuits that 's * keeping * the blind from being able drive themselves.Driverless cars are pretty much ready to be put on the market , but very few want to take the risk .
If a sighted driver kills someone while driving , their insurance pays you maybe a half million .
If it 's a larger corporation 's automated driving system ( which would tremendously benefit the blind ) causes someone to die -- even if it 's at a significantly lower rate than normal drivers kill people -- they will have to pay a lot more because , hey , they have deep pockets .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The irony is that it's probably the threat of lawsuits that's *keeping* the blind from being able drive themselves.Driverless cars are pretty much ready to be put on the market, but very few want to take the risk.
If a sighted driver kills someone while driving, their insurance pays you maybe a half million.
If it's a larger corporation's automated driving system (which would tremendously benefit the blind) causes someone to die -- even if it's at a significantly lower rate than normal drivers kill people -- they will have to pay a lot more because, hey, they have deep pockets.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758066</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758806</id>
	<title>Cat got my tongue</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263388680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>National Federation of the Dyslexic says "Books In Clasroom Hurts Dyslexik Students".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>National Federation of the Dyslexic says " Books In Clasroom Hurts Dyslexik Students " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>National Federation of the Dyslexic says "Books In Clasroom Hurts Dyslexik Students".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758322</id>
	<title>bad standards</title>
	<author>ascari</author>
	<datestamp>1263386580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Doesn't this really say something about deficiencies in the current e-ink and e-book implementations? I mean, if you have text in electronic format it should be nearly trivial to convert to braille/speech/what have you. I say throw out the damn thing from classrooms everywhere until the vendors fix that.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Does n't this really say something about deficiencies in the current e-ink and e-book implementations ?
I mean , if you have text in electronic format it should be nearly trivial to convert to braille/speech/what have you .
I say throw out the damn thing from classrooms everywhere until the vendors fix that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Doesn't this really say something about deficiencies in the current e-ink and e-book implementations?
I mean, if you have text in electronic format it should be nearly trivial to convert to braille/speech/what have you.
I say throw out the damn thing from classrooms everywhere until the vendors fix that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758278</id>
	<title>Re:ADA?</title>
	<author>coaxial</author>
	<datestamp>1263386460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> I'm thinking my school got in some sort of crap legal trouble and that's why the message is there.</p></div><p>Or their merely being helpful, given that all universities have a disability resource center that provide things like sign language interpreters, and special testing sessions for those with learning disabilities.</p><p>Seriously, why are you so bent out of shape out of 12 words printed at the bottom of a page?</p><p>I've been in class with blind student.  He'd bring his guide dog.  The TA would make ball and peg models of whatever chemical were discussing at the time (it was chem 101), and would give it to him so he could "see" what she was talking about.  How he took tests, I don't know.  I guess someone would read him the questions, or translate the test into braille or something.  He never took tests with the rest of us.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm thinking my school got in some sort of crap legal trouble and that 's why the message is there.Or their merely being helpful , given that all universities have a disability resource center that provide things like sign language interpreters , and special testing sessions for those with learning disabilities.Seriously , why are you so bent out of shape out of 12 words printed at the bottom of a page ? I 've been in class with blind student .
He 'd bring his guide dog .
The TA would make ball and peg models of whatever chemical were discussing at the time ( it was chem 101 ) , and would give it to him so he could " see " what she was talking about .
How he took tests , I do n't know .
I guess someone would read him the questions , or translate the test into braille or something .
He never took tests with the rest of us .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> I'm thinking my school got in some sort of crap legal trouble and that's why the message is there.Or their merely being helpful, given that all universities have a disability resource center that provide things like sign language interpreters, and special testing sessions for those with learning disabilities.Seriously, why are you so bent out of shape out of 12 words printed at the bottom of a page?I've been in class with blind student.
He'd bring his guide dog.
The TA would make ball and peg models of whatever chemical were discussing at the time (it was chem 101), and would give it to him so he could "see" what she was talking about.
How he took tests, I don't know.
I guess someone would read him the questions, or translate the test into braille or something.
He never took tests with the rest of us.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758014</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758332</id>
	<title>Re:stupidity at its best</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263386700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you think that's bad, just imagine if the politically correct DOJ was designing all of the porn videos...</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you think that 's bad , just imagine if the politically correct DOJ was designing all of the porn videos.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you think that's bad, just imagine if the politically correct DOJ was designing all of the porn videos...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759496</id>
	<title>Re:In other news</title>
	<author>selven</author>
	<datestamp>1263392160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I got an idea. Let's limit all NASCARs to 4 kilometers per hour so blind and disabled people can just walk/wheelchair right beside the cars! It'll reduce the number of crashes too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I got an idea .
Let 's limit all NASCARs to 4 kilometers per hour so blind and disabled people can just walk/wheelchair right beside the cars !
It 'll reduce the number of crashes too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I got an idea.
Let's limit all NASCARs to 4 kilometers per hour so blind and disabled people can just walk/wheelchair right beside the cars!
It'll reduce the number of crashes too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758034</id>
	<title>What!?!?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263385620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's like saying computer science shouldn't be taught because blind people can't read C++.  This kind of pandering is ridiculous.  Not only that, but this is at private universities, not state ones, so I don't think any of these statutes should apply.</p><p>On the other hand, I think kindle should have a read-aloud feature, even if just rudimentary.  I just don't know how they would implement it when it comes to graphs and figures.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's like saying computer science should n't be taught because blind people ca n't read C + + .
This kind of pandering is ridiculous .
Not only that , but this is at private universities , not state ones , so I do n't think any of these statutes should apply.On the other hand , I think kindle should have a read-aloud feature , even if just rudimentary .
I just do n't know how they would implement it when it comes to graphs and figures .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's like saying computer science shouldn't be taught because blind people can't read C++.
This kind of pandering is ridiculous.
Not only that, but this is at private universities, not state ones, so I don't think any of these statutes should apply.On the other hand, I think kindle should have a read-aloud feature, even if just rudimentary.
I just don't know how they would implement it when it comes to graphs and figures.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30757998</id>
	<title>I don't understand</title>
	<author>93 Escort Wagon</author>
	<datestamp>1263385500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Okay, I do understand the technicalities regarding why they say the Kindle is not as accessible to blind students as it is to sighted students. But what I don't get is - how is it different from the status quo? Blind students can't read regular textbooks already. What is it we can do for them with a printed textbook that we can't do with an electronic textbook?</p><p>And don't bring up braille, since that is a separate edition that has to be produced (and is thus independent of whether the "normal" book is on paper or electronic).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Okay , I do understand the technicalities regarding why they say the Kindle is not as accessible to blind students as it is to sighted students .
But what I do n't get is - how is it different from the status quo ?
Blind students ca n't read regular textbooks already .
What is it we can do for them with a printed textbook that we ca n't do with an electronic textbook ? And do n't bring up braille , since that is a separate edition that has to be produced ( and is thus independent of whether the " normal " book is on paper or electronic ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Okay, I do understand the technicalities regarding why they say the Kindle is not as accessible to blind students as it is to sighted students.
But what I don't get is - how is it different from the status quo?
Blind students can't read regular textbooks already.
What is it we can do for them with a printed textbook that we can't do with an electronic textbook?And don't bring up braille, since that is a separate edition that has to be produced (and is thus independent of whether the "normal" book is on paper or electronic).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758686</id>
	<title>Re:Take away everyones eyes!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263388140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sad part is that this is just the lawyers and a few well placed folks speaking for the entire community of blind folks.  I would bet if there was a survey of members, the vast majority could care less.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sad part is that this is just the lawyers and a few well placed folks speaking for the entire community of blind folks .
I would bet if there was a survey of members , the vast majority could care less .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sad part is that this is just the lawyers and a few well placed folks speaking for the entire community of blind folks.
I would bet if there was a survey of members, the vast majority could care less.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758108</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758814</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm, this seems illogical.</title>
	<author>imamac</author>
	<datestamp>1263388680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This was in Sneakers how many years ago now?  Surely there's something better by now.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This was in Sneakers how many years ago now ?
Surely there 's something better by now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This was in Sneakers how many years ago now?
Surely there's something better by now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758222</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759698</id>
	<title>Re:Let's take this to it's logical extreme</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263393540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>...Tiger Woods is getting more pussy than we do!</p></div><p>"You can say that again."</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...Tiger Woods is getting more pussy than we do !
" You can say that again .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ...Tiger Woods is getting more pussy than we do!
"You can say that again.
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758548</id>
	<title>The solution is simple:</title>
	<author>meburke</author>
	<datestamp>1263387480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Simply blind everybody. That will certainly make the playing field equal, right? This is too stupid for words! Students should be assessed (graded) on how well they master the material. People with different capabilities will acquire the the knowledge in different ways. Am I being discriminatory because I won't hire a blind person to work in a sawmill or as a logger? Real life occupations may also be better for people who can see (like loggers who don't want branches and trees on top of them).</p><p>I've read the original documents, and I can see where blind students may want to get as much of the same experience as sighted people, but the manner and outcome of the learning HAS to be different simply because they cannot experience the class in the same way.</p><p>Hey, I always wanted to be an Astronaut! Can I sue NASA into giving fat guys a break?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Simply blind everybody .
That will certainly make the playing field equal , right ?
This is too stupid for words !
Students should be assessed ( graded ) on how well they master the material .
People with different capabilities will acquire the the knowledge in different ways .
Am I being discriminatory because I wo n't hire a blind person to work in a sawmill or as a logger ?
Real life occupations may also be better for people who can see ( like loggers who do n't want branches and trees on top of them ) .I 've read the original documents , and I can see where blind students may want to get as much of the same experience as sighted people , but the manner and outcome of the learning HAS to be different simply because they can not experience the class in the same way.Hey , I always wanted to be an Astronaut !
Can I sue NASA into giving fat guys a break ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Simply blind everybody.
That will certainly make the playing field equal, right?
This is too stupid for words!
Students should be assessed (graded) on how well they master the material.
People with different capabilities will acquire the the knowledge in different ways.
Am I being discriminatory because I won't hire a blind person to work in a sawmill or as a logger?
Real life occupations may also be better for people who can see (like loggers who don't want branches and trees on top of them).I've read the original documents, and I can see where blind students may want to get as much of the same experience as sighted people, but the manner and outcome of the learning HAS to be different simply because they cannot experience the class in the same way.Hey, I always wanted to be an Astronaut!
Can I sue NASA into giving fat guys a break?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30761186</id>
	<title>Blind Justice</title>
	<author>rlh100</author>
	<datestamp>1263408300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As Arlo Guthrie would say:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "...began to cry, 'cause Obie came to the realization that<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; it was a typical case of American blind justice,<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; and there wasn't nothing he could do about it"</p><p>You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant</p><p>RLH</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As Arlo Guthrie would say :         " ...began to cry , 'cause Obie came to the realization that                 it was a typical case of American blind justice ,                 and there was n't nothing he could do about it " You can get anything you want at Alice 's RestaurantRLH</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As Arlo Guthrie would say:
        "...began to cry, 'cause Obie came to the realization that
                it was a typical case of American blind justice,
                and there wasn't nothing he could do about it"You can get anything you want at Alice's RestaurantRLH</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758682</id>
	<title>Re:Harrison Bergeron</title>
	<author>sl149q</author>
	<datestamp>1263388080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Kindle has it... but it is disabled mostly because of publishers not wanting to hurt their audiobooks sales.</p><p>The answer is to prohibit use of any ebooks in the classroom when the publishers won't allow students to use text to speech options.</p><p>There may be a separate issue with speech to control the ebook device.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Kindle has it... but it is disabled mostly because of publishers not wanting to hurt their audiobooks sales.The answer is to prohibit use of any ebooks in the classroom when the publishers wo n't allow students to use text to speech options.There may be a separate issue with speech to control the ebook device .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Kindle has it... but it is disabled mostly because of publishers not wanting to hurt their audiobooks sales.The answer is to prohibit use of any ebooks in the classroom when the publishers won't allow students to use text to speech options.There may be a separate issue with speech to control the ebook device.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758564</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759742</id>
	<title>Re:your highest achievable standard.,..</title>
	<author>lennier</author>
	<datestamp>1263393840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>@neo: What good is a Twitter account, Mr Anderson... if you are unable to type?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>@ neo : What good is a Twitter account , Mr Anderson... if you are unable to type ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>@neo: What good is a Twitter account, Mr Anderson... if you are unable to type?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758048</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758614</id>
	<title>Lot of people misreading the case</title>
	<author>gurps\_npc</author>
	<datestamp>1263387780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This case is not about the university offering the kindle.
<p>
No.</p><p>Instead this is about the university PUSHING a product that has intentionally sabotaged it's capacity to help the blind.
</p><p>
Assume for example that you are 4'2".  Then assume that the company building houses in the areas put the door knob at the TOP of the door.   Note, there is no need to do this, but they have done it.
</p><p>Would you sue?
</p><p>OF COURSE you would.
</p><p>Same thing here.  You have electronic devices that have the capacity to do text to voice.  But to turn this on, you have to READ THE MENUS.   Not once, but EVERY time they turn the device on.
</p><p>This is a simple fix.   Just put in a setting that tells the text to voice software to workon the device's own menus, activating when it turns on.   Kindle says they will do it.  Why do they say they will do it?  <b>BECAUSE THEY GOT SUED.</b>
</p><p>Without this very lawsuit, kindle would still be screwing over the blind with a poorly designed product that requires a sighted person to turn it on, instead of a well designed product that doesn't.
</p><p>This is a very good example of how the law should be used - to fix moronic decisions made by companies for no good reason.
</p><p>P.S.  - why sue the university instead of Amazon?   The students have more legal rights against the university than against Amazon because of the nature of the business.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This case is not about the university offering the kindle .
No.Instead this is about the university PUSHING a product that has intentionally sabotaged it 's capacity to help the blind .
Assume for example that you are 4'2 " .
Then assume that the company building houses in the areas put the door knob at the TOP of the door .
Note , there is no need to do this , but they have done it .
Would you sue ?
OF COURSE you would .
Same thing here .
You have electronic devices that have the capacity to do text to voice .
But to turn this on , you have to READ THE MENUS .
Not once , but EVERY time they turn the device on .
This is a simple fix .
Just put in a setting that tells the text to voice software to workon the device 's own menus , activating when it turns on .
Kindle says they will do it .
Why do they say they will do it ?
BECAUSE THEY GOT SUED .
Without this very lawsuit , kindle would still be screwing over the blind with a poorly designed product that requires a sighted person to turn it on , instead of a well designed product that does n't .
This is a very good example of how the law should be used - to fix moronic decisions made by companies for no good reason .
P.S. - why sue the university instead of Amazon ?
The students have more legal rights against the university than against Amazon because of the nature of the business .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This case is not about the university offering the kindle.
No.Instead this is about the university PUSHING a product that has intentionally sabotaged it's capacity to help the blind.
Assume for example that you are 4'2".
Then assume that the company building houses in the areas put the door knob at the TOP of the door.
Note, there is no need to do this, but they have done it.
Would you sue?
OF COURSE you would.
Same thing here.
You have electronic devices that have the capacity to do text to voice.
But to turn this on, you have to READ THE MENUS.
Not once, but EVERY time they turn the device on.
This is a simple fix.
Just put in a setting that tells the text to voice software to workon the device's own menus, activating when it turns on.
Kindle says they will do it.
Why do they say they will do it?
BECAUSE THEY GOT SUED.
Without this very lawsuit, kindle would still be screwing over the blind with a poorly designed product that requires a sighted person to turn it on, instead of a well designed product that doesn't.
This is a very good example of how the law should be used - to fix moronic decisions made by companies for no good reason.
P.S.  - why sue the university instead of Amazon?
The students have more legal rights against the university than against Amazon because of the nature of the business.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30760654</id>
	<title>Re:Let's take this to it's logical extreme</title>
	<author>Just Some Guy</author>
	<datestamp>1263402180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Tiger Woods is getting more pussy than we do!</p></div><p>What's this "we" business, Napoleon?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Tiger Woods is getting more pussy than we do ! What 's this " we " business , Napoleon ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tiger Woods is getting more pussy than we do!What's this "we" business, Napoleon?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30760162</id>
	<title>Stupfying Quantities of Superficial Blather</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263397620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Once again Slashdotterers jump the pun and explore every available tangent.</p><p>Notice that we're all talking about a caricature of a settlement. No complaint or legal argument is offered in the fine article. (I'm generally nonplussed by reporting on legal issues and even less happy when the terms of a settlement are withheld from the public without legally justfiable cause, which IMHO should be as rare as the toads in winter.) But even so, the objection was to the promotion of a commercial product into the classroom. One designed to do what? Allow students to support Amazon &amp; Sprint?</p><p>We're talking about Amazon's marketing as much as the public/private partnership being fostered by University administrators.</p><p><strong>I want to 'see' e-readers supplant the tome as much as the next geek</strong>, <i>but in this case it's reasonable to to require publicly funded institutions not favor technology which doesn't meet the needs of [legally] blind students before we pimp the student body, promote a half baked solution and give a huge commercial advantage to a single corporation.</i> I don't believe there's a logical excuse for not having had the Kindle ready to meet the ADA standard before it is shoved to the head of class.</p><p>It's not as if Amazon is trying to be altruistic here, and what's wrong with a little delay in the name of egalitarianism? Are we afraid it might set a precedent, that the FDA might, all of a sudden, start requiring pre-market safety research, delaying the next wonder treatment for erectile dysfunction, or perhaps we're all worried that the FCC might hinder Clear Station or Rupert Murdoch in their bid to dominate ownership our failing systems of commercialized journalism?</p><p>Who knows, maybe the Fed will....    No! Not a chance...    B-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Once again Slashdotterers jump the pun and explore every available tangent.Notice that we 're all talking about a caricature of a settlement .
No complaint or legal argument is offered in the fine article .
( I 'm generally nonplussed by reporting on legal issues and even less happy when the terms of a settlement are withheld from the public without legally justfiable cause , which IMHO should be as rare as the toads in winter .
) But even so , the objection was to the promotion of a commercial product into the classroom .
One designed to do what ?
Allow students to support Amazon &amp; Sprint ? We 're talking about Amazon 's marketing as much as the public/private partnership being fostered by University administrators.I want to 'see ' e-readers supplant the tome as much as the next geek , but in this case it 's reasonable to to require publicly funded institutions not favor technology which does n't meet the needs of [ legally ] blind students before we pimp the student body , promote a half baked solution and give a huge commercial advantage to a single corporation .
I do n't believe there 's a logical excuse for not having had the Kindle ready to meet the ADA standard before it is shoved to the head of class.It 's not as if Amazon is trying to be altruistic here , and what 's wrong with a little delay in the name of egalitarianism ?
Are we afraid it might set a precedent , that the FDA might , all of a sudden , start requiring pre-market safety research , delaying the next wonder treatment for erectile dysfunction , or perhaps we 're all worried that the FCC might hinder Clear Station or Rupert Murdoch in their bid to dominate ownership our failing systems of commercialized journalism ? Who knows , maybe the Fed will.... No ! Not a chance... B- )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Once again Slashdotterers jump the pun and explore every available tangent.Notice that we're all talking about a caricature of a settlement.
No complaint or legal argument is offered in the fine article.
(I'm generally nonplussed by reporting on legal issues and even less happy when the terms of a settlement are withheld from the public without legally justfiable cause, which IMHO should be as rare as the toads in winter.
) But even so, the objection was to the promotion of a commercial product into the classroom.
One designed to do what?
Allow students to support Amazon &amp; Sprint?We're talking about Amazon's marketing as much as the public/private partnership being fostered by University administrators.I want to 'see' e-readers supplant the tome as much as the next geek, but in this case it's reasonable to to require publicly funded institutions not favor technology which doesn't meet the needs of [legally] blind students before we pimp the student body, promote a half baked solution and give a huge commercial advantage to a single corporation.
I don't believe there's a logical excuse for not having had the Kindle ready to meet the ADA standard before it is shoved to the head of class.It's not as if Amazon is trying to be altruistic here, and what's wrong with a little delay in the name of egalitarianism?
Are we afraid it might set a precedent, that the FDA might, all of a sudden, start requiring pre-market safety research, delaying the next wonder treatment for erectile dysfunction, or perhaps we're all worried that the FCC might hinder Clear Station or Rupert Murdoch in their bid to dominate ownership our failing systems of commercialized journalism?Who knows, maybe the Fed will....    No! Not a chance...    B-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759832</id>
	<title>Re:Why even have a Kindle in the classroom?</title>
	<author>Shados</author>
	<datestamp>1263394680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Being able to carry all of the books necessary for my degree in my jacket's pocket is a big deal to me.</p><p>Bonus point if this was the latest Sony Reader touch instead of a kindle, since that is much easier to annotate books to take notes with a stylus.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Being able to carry all of the books necessary for my degree in my jacket 's pocket is a big deal to me.Bonus point if this was the latest Sony Reader touch instead of a kindle , since that is much easier to annotate books to take notes with a stylus .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Being able to carry all of the books necessary for my degree in my jacket's pocket is a big deal to me.Bonus point if this was the latest Sony Reader touch instead of a kindle, since that is much easier to annotate books to take notes with a stylus.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758602</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758692</id>
	<title>Blame the publishers...</title>
	<author>Astroturtle</author>
	<datestamp>1263388140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They're the ones who threw a hissy-fit over the Kindle's text-to-speech capabilities when they were announced maintaining that it constituted a "public performance" and is a violation of copyright. (and a big "ffff-ank you" to the slimeball record/collection agency lawyers who got the ball rolling on that one...)<br>
<br>
Check out:
<br>
<br>
Amazon Gives In To Ridiculous Authors Guild Claim: Allows Authors To Block Text-To-Speech<br>
<a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090227/1759173928.shtml" title="techdirt.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090227/1759173928.shtml</a> [techdirt.com]
<br>
<br>
and
<br>
<br>
Disappointing: Obama Administration Won't Support Treaty For Helping Blind Get Digital Books<br>
<a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090529/1917545057.shtml" title="techdirt.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090529/1917545057.shtml</a> [techdirt.com]
<br>
<br>
for more...</htmltext>
<tokenext>They 're the ones who threw a hissy-fit over the Kindle 's text-to-speech capabilities when they were announced maintaining that it constituted a " public performance " and is a violation of copyright .
( and a big " ffff-ank you " to the slimeball record/collection agency lawyers who got the ball rolling on that one... ) Check out : Amazon Gives In To Ridiculous Authors Guild Claim : Allows Authors To Block Text-To-Speech http : //www.techdirt.com/articles/20090227/1759173928.shtml [ techdirt.com ] and Disappointing : Obama Administration Wo n't Support Treaty For Helping Blind Get Digital Books http : //www.techdirt.com/articles/20090529/1917545057.shtml [ techdirt.com ] for more.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They're the ones who threw a hissy-fit over the Kindle's text-to-speech capabilities when they were announced maintaining that it constituted a "public performance" and is a violation of copyright.
(and a big "ffff-ank you" to the slimeball record/collection agency lawyers who got the ball rolling on that one...)

Check out:


Amazon Gives In To Ridiculous Authors Guild Claim: Allows Authors To Block Text-To-Speech
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090227/1759173928.shtml [techdirt.com]


and


Disappointing: Obama Administration Won't Support Treaty For Helping Blind Get Digital Books
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090529/1917545057.shtml [techdirt.com]


for more...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30762784</id>
	<title>Text-to-speech disabled</title>
	<author>RobinH</author>
	<datestamp>1263475560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe that's because publishers are, by default, disabling the text-to-speech function on their works.  I'm annoyed with how many books I downloads on my kindle have text-to-speech disabled.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe that 's because publishers are , by default , disabling the text-to-speech function on their works .
I 'm annoyed with how many books I downloads on my kindle have text-to-speech disabled .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe that's because publishers are, by default, disabling the text-to-speech function on their works.
I'm annoyed with how many books I downloads on my kindle have text-to-speech disabled.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758360</id>
	<title>Re:Have the blind sued the car makers?</title>
	<author>bieber</author>
	<datestamp>1263386760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Your analogy is pretty heavily flawed.  There's nothing fundamentally impossible about a blind person going through school and receiving an education.  Reading is an activity that we have centuries of experience in making accessible, and with ebooks it <i>could</i> be as simple as including a non-braindead text-to-speech system in your ebook reader.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Your analogy is pretty heavily flawed .
There 's nothing fundamentally impossible about a blind person going through school and receiving an education .
Reading is an activity that we have centuries of experience in making accessible , and with ebooks it could be as simple as including a non-braindead text-to-speech system in your ebook reader .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your analogy is pretty heavily flawed.
There's nothing fundamentally impossible about a blind person going through school and receiving an education.
Reading is an activity that we have centuries of experience in making accessible, and with ebooks it could be as simple as including a non-braindead text-to-speech system in your ebook reader.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758066</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758924</id>
	<title>What about audio books?</title>
	<author>mangu</author>
	<datestamp>1263389160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Will they next try to ban audio books because they cannot be red by the deaf?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Will they next try to ban audio books because they can not be red by the deaf ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Will they next try to ban audio books because they cannot be red by the deaf?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30761896</id>
	<title>Just turn off the epaper part</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263461820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Now you have a pretty level playing field.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Now you have a pretty level playing field .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now you have a pretty level playing field.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759776</id>
	<title>Re:stupidity at its best</title>
	<author>pclminion</author>
	<datestamp>1263394260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Given that the USA has no official language, why should citizenship require knowledge of any particular language? But good job injecting your irrational fear of brown people into a completely unrelated discussion.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Given that the USA has no official language , why should citizenship require knowledge of any particular language ?
But good job injecting your irrational fear of brown people into a completely unrelated discussion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Given that the USA has no official language, why should citizenship require knowledge of any particular language?
But good job injecting your irrational fear of brown people into a completely unrelated discussion.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758738</id>
	<title>So since amputees exist......</title>
	<author>Antisyzygy</author>
	<datestamp>1263388320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is like saying that since amputees exist that cannot use pencils, I should be discouraged from using pencils.

Seriously. Books are available to students and encourages to be used, and one needs to order special books for the blind, so how is this different?</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is like saying that since amputees exist that can not use pencils , I should be discouraged from using pencils .
Seriously. Books are available to students and encourages to be used , and one needs to order special books for the blind , so how is this different ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is like saying that since amputees exist that cannot use pencils, I should be discouraged from using pencils.
Seriously. Books are available to students and encourages to be used, and one needs to order special books for the blind, so how is this different?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30760424</id>
	<title>Few blind students are independant readers</title>
	<author>cwgmpls</author>
	<datestamp>1263400140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The premise of the argument is that blind students should be given the tools to read independently, just as their sighted counterparts are given.  But the secret that nobody will admit is that no blind person is a fully independent reader.</p><p>Browsing any text by a blind person, whether in braille or audio format, is inherently inefficient compared to browsing it visually. Most blind people, particularly at the college level, work together with a sighted "reader" to sort through the huge volume of reading material.  Once the desired material is found, it is then, hopefully, available in braille or audio form to read and review as needed.  But the entire process is dependent on working with a sighted reader to filter the material down to a manageable size that can be dealt with in a non-visual format like audio or braille.</p><p>Banning e-readers on the grounds that blind people cannot use them independently represents a gross misunderstanding of the reading process used by blind students.  No blind student is a fully-independent reader, so it is unreasonable to insist that all reading technology be independently operable by a blind person.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The premise of the argument is that blind students should be given the tools to read independently , just as their sighted counterparts are given .
But the secret that nobody will admit is that no blind person is a fully independent reader.Browsing any text by a blind person , whether in braille or audio format , is inherently inefficient compared to browsing it visually .
Most blind people , particularly at the college level , work together with a sighted " reader " to sort through the huge volume of reading material .
Once the desired material is found , it is then , hopefully , available in braille or audio form to read and review as needed .
But the entire process is dependent on working with a sighted reader to filter the material down to a manageable size that can be dealt with in a non-visual format like audio or braille.Banning e-readers on the grounds that blind people can not use them independently represents a gross misunderstanding of the reading process used by blind students .
No blind student is a fully-independent reader , so it is unreasonable to insist that all reading technology be independently operable by a blind person .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The premise of the argument is that blind students should be given the tools to read independently, just as their sighted counterparts are given.
But the secret that nobody will admit is that no blind person is a fully independent reader.Browsing any text by a blind person, whether in braille or audio format, is inherently inefficient compared to browsing it visually.
Most blind people, particularly at the college level, work together with a sighted "reader" to sort through the huge volume of reading material.
Once the desired material is found, it is then, hopefully, available in braille or audio form to read and review as needed.
But the entire process is dependent on working with a sighted reader to filter the material down to a manageable size that can be dealt with in a non-visual format like audio or braille.Banning e-readers on the grounds that blind people cannot use them independently represents a gross misunderstanding of the reading process used by blind students.
No blind student is a fully-independent reader, so it is unreasonable to insist that all reading technology be independently operable by a blind person.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30765670</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm, this seems illogical.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263489780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>You're an idiot</htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're an idiot</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're an idiot</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759010</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758384</id>
	<title>I am so tired of the attitide...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263386880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...that giving something to one person is equivalent to taking something from another.</p><p>Like I tell my 4 year old all the time: "So what if your cousin got a toy you didn't?  Isn't it nice that she got a toy that made her happy?  We're happy for her aren't we?  Not mad we didn't get one too."  At which point the 4 year old thinks about it and decides that's right and goes and pats his cousin on the back and is all smiles again.</p><p>If he gets it why can the rest of the adult world?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...that giving something to one person is equivalent to taking something from another.Like I tell my 4 year old all the time : " So what if your cousin got a toy you did n't ?
Is n't it nice that she got a toy that made her happy ?
We 're happy for her are n't we ?
Not mad we did n't get one too .
" At which point the 4 year old thinks about it and decides that 's right and goes and pats his cousin on the back and is all smiles again.If he gets it why can the rest of the adult world ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...that giving something to one person is equivalent to taking something from another.Like I tell my 4 year old all the time: "So what if your cousin got a toy you didn't?
Isn't it nice that she got a toy that made her happy?
We're happy for her aren't we?
Not mad we didn't get one too.
"  At which point the 4 year old thinks about it and decides that's right and goes and pats his cousin on the back and is all smiles again.If he gets it why can the rest of the adult world?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759544</id>
	<title>Re:Why even have a Kindle in the classroom?</title>
	<author>DarkofPeace</author>
	<datestamp>1263392400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>well considering I spent $400 on books this semester, If the E-book version was half the price of print, I would save almost enough to buy the Reader (kindle, nook, whatever). Not to mention weight saving, note taking, and other advantages.</htmltext>
<tokenext>well considering I spent $ 400 on books this semester , If the E-book version was half the price of print , I would save almost enough to buy the Reader ( kindle , nook , whatever ) .
Not to mention weight saving , note taking , and other advantages .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>well considering I spent $400 on books this semester, If the E-book version was half the price of print, I would save almost enough to buy the Reader (kindle, nook, whatever).
Not to mention weight saving, note taking, and other advantages.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758602</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759010</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm, this seems illogical.</title>
	<author>schon</author>
	<datestamp>1263389580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>Well, books can be typed in braille, the kindle cannot...</p></div><p>Sure it can</p></div><p>Can it?  I didn't see any mention in that link of any Kindle models that use that device.  Can you provide a link to a Kindle with a braille display?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Maybe The National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind should get off their asses and sponsor it.</p></div><p>Ahh... in other words you have no idea what you're talking about and you thought you'd post an irrelevant link and suggest that <i>someone else</i> should do Amazon's R&amp;D work for them for free.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , books can be typed in braille , the kindle can not...Sure it canCan it ?
I did n't see any mention in that link of any Kindle models that use that device .
Can you provide a link to a Kindle with a braille display ? Maybe The National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind should get off their asses and sponsor it.Ahh... in other words you have no idea what you 're talking about and you thought you 'd post an irrelevant link and suggest that someone else should do Amazon 's R&amp;D work for them for free .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, books can be typed in braille, the kindle cannot...Sure it canCan it?
I didn't see any mention in that link of any Kindle models that use that device.
Can you provide a link to a Kindle with a braille display?Maybe The National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind should get off their asses and sponsor it.Ahh... in other words you have no idea what you're talking about and you thought you'd post an irrelevant link and suggest that someone else should do Amazon's R&amp;D work for them for free.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758222</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30760534</id>
	<title>Crap like this proves two things, does one thing</title>
	<author>PortHaven</author>
	<datestamp>1263400860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1. Proves that our government is full of idiots.<br>2. Proves that blind people are frakkin' blind.</p><p>Does one thing, destroys any good will people have toward the handicap.  Frankly, I see this, and I want to cut all funding to blind people and shout at them "YOU'RE !@#$\% BLIND!"</p><p>Look, our society does a lot for the handicap, perhaps we can do more, and I am all for doing more where and when it's feasible. But you have to accept a certain extent of your handicap.  So you're blind and you can easily navigate your Kindle. It's not like you can walk into Barnes and Noble and read all the books either. Deal!</p><p>It's harsh, yes. But when you take our goodwill and slam it in our face, don't be surprised if you get tossed to the roadside.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
Proves that our government is full of idiots.2 .
Proves that blind people are frakkin ' blind.Does one thing , destroys any good will people have toward the handicap .
Frankly , I see this , and I want to cut all funding to blind people and shout at them " YOU 'RE !
@ # $ \ % BLIND !
" Look , our society does a lot for the handicap , perhaps we can do more , and I am all for doing more where and when it 's feasible .
But you have to accept a certain extent of your handicap .
So you 're blind and you can easily navigate your Kindle .
It 's not like you can walk into Barnes and Noble and read all the books either .
Deal ! It 's harsh , yes .
But when you take our goodwill and slam it in our face , do n't be surprised if you get tossed to the roadside .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.
Proves that our government is full of idiots.2.
Proves that blind people are frakkin' blind.Does one thing, destroys any good will people have toward the handicap.
Frankly, I see this, and I want to cut all funding to blind people and shout at them "YOU'RE !
@#$\% BLIND!
"Look, our society does a lot for the handicap, perhaps we can do more, and I am all for doing more where and when it's feasible.
But you have to accept a certain extent of your handicap.
So you're blind and you can easily navigate your Kindle.
It's not like you can walk into Barnes and Noble and read all the books either.
Deal!It's harsh, yes.
But when you take our goodwill and slam it in our face, don't be surprised if you get tossed to the roadside.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30791584</id>
	<title>Make up an issue and look important fighting it</title>
	<author>WindShadow</author>
	<datestamp>1263667680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What's next, banning the use of televised material, movies, and any presentation using visual aids such as plots? Or does teaching any subject not understandable to someone with a low IQ somehow become prohibited as well?</p><p>Making the majority of students use paper books does not make things better for those with limited sight, it just means they spend more per book, have more garbage as the book becomes obsolete, etc. I guess next they will forbid use of any book not available in braille.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What 's next , banning the use of televised material , movies , and any presentation using visual aids such as plots ?
Or does teaching any subject not understandable to someone with a low IQ somehow become prohibited as well ? Making the majority of students use paper books does not make things better for those with limited sight , it just means they spend more per book , have more garbage as the book becomes obsolete , etc .
I guess next they will forbid use of any book not available in braille .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What's next, banning the use of televised material, movies, and any presentation using visual aids such as plots?
Or does teaching any subject not understandable to someone with a low IQ somehow become prohibited as well?Making the majority of students use paper books does not make things better for those with limited sight, it just means they spend more per book, have more garbage as the book becomes obsolete, etc.
I guess next they will forbid use of any book not available in braille.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758576</id>
	<title>Re:I don't understand</title>
	<author>japhering</author>
	<datestamp>1263387600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The difference is that a Kindle can't, yet, be read by a scanner.  Most of the blind folks I've met in the last 5 years have a personal, hand held scanner for reading books that are not yet available in braille or for documents handed out in class.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The difference is that a Kindle ca n't , yet , be read by a scanner .
Most of the blind folks I 've met in the last 5 years have a personal , hand held scanner for reading books that are not yet available in braille or for documents handed out in class .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The difference is that a Kindle can't, yet, be read by a scanner.
Most of the blind folks I've met in the last 5 years have a personal, hand held scanner for reading books that are not yet available in braille or for documents handed out in class.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30757998</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30760200</id>
	<title>A better solution ...</title>
	<author>PPH</author>
	<datestamp>1263397980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>... would be to mandate distribution of the textbooks in  platform-neutral formats that the Kindle as well as devices better suited to the blind. You like your Kindle. Fine. Use it. Don't like it? Get a different e-book reader or load the content onto a laptop. With enough choices, someone is bound to have something that will accommodate everyone's needs.</htmltext>
<tokenext>... would be to mandate distribution of the textbooks in platform-neutral formats that the Kindle as well as devices better suited to the blind .
You like your Kindle .
Fine. Use it .
Do n't like it ?
Get a different e-book reader or load the content onto a laptop .
With enough choices , someone is bound to have something that will accommodate everyone 's needs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... would be to mandate distribution of the textbooks in  platform-neutral formats that the Kindle as well as devices better suited to the blind.
You like your Kindle.
Fine. Use it.
Don't like it?
Get a different e-book reader or load the content onto a laptop.
With enough choices, someone is bound to have something that will accommodate everyone's needs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759976</id>
	<title>Re:your highest achievable standard.,..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263395940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>neither does a kindle.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>neither does a kindle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>neither does a kindle.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758048</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30761614</id>
	<title>Re:In other news</title>
	<author>mr\_death</author>
	<datestamp>1263500220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hell, there aren't any blind drivers of any sort as far as I know, but there is still braille on the drive-up ATMs.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hell , there are n't any blind drivers of any sort as far as I know , but there is still braille on the drive-up ATMs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hell, there aren't any blind drivers of any sort as far as I know, but there is still braille on the drive-up ATMs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758208</id>
	<title>stupidity at its best</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263386160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If politically correct DOJ was designing Olimpics games today, they would have to make sure obese people have the same chance of winning gymnastics or marathon competition as fit people.<br>
&nbsp; And Mensa would be an illegal organization.<br>And passing US citizenship test would require no knowledge of English... oh wait...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If politically correct DOJ was designing Olimpics games today , they would have to make sure obese people have the same chance of winning gymnastics or marathon competition as fit people .
  And Mensa would be an illegal organization.And passing US citizenship test would require no knowledge of English... oh wait.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If politically correct DOJ was designing Olimpics games today, they would have to make sure obese people have the same chance of winning gymnastics or marathon competition as fit people.
  And Mensa would be an illegal organization.And passing US citizenship test would require no knowledge of English... oh wait...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30763852</id>
	<title>Contact info for asst atty general</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263483600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>contact the asst. attorney general and tell him how you feel.</p><p>Here is the contact information for the idiot public servant that pursued this claim:</p><p>http://www.justice.gov/crt/ofcaag.php</p><p>Office of the Assistant Attorney General<br>Mailing Address</p><p>U.S. Department of Justice<br>Civil Rights Division<br>950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.<br>Office of the Assistant Attorney General, Main<br>Washington, D.C. 20530</p><p>Telephone Number for the General Public - (202) 514-4609</p><p>Fax Numbers</p><p>(202) 514-0293<br>(202) 307-2572<br>(202) 307-2839</p><p>Telephone Device for the Deaf (TDD) - (202) 514-0716</p><p>Assistant Attorney General</p><p>Thomas E. Perez</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>contact the asst .
attorney general and tell him how you feel.Here is the contact information for the idiot public servant that pursued this claim : http : //www.justice.gov/crt/ofcaag.phpOffice of the Assistant Attorney GeneralMailing AddressU.S .
Department of JusticeCivil Rights Division950 Pennsylvania Avenue , N.W.Office of the Assistant Attorney General , MainWashington , D.C. 20530Telephone Number for the General Public - ( 202 ) 514-4609Fax Numbers ( 202 ) 514-0293 ( 202 ) 307-2572 ( 202 ) 307-2839Telephone Device for the Deaf ( TDD ) - ( 202 ) 514-0716Assistant Attorney GeneralThomas E. Perez</tokentext>
<sentencetext>contact the asst.
attorney general and tell him how you feel.Here is the contact information for the idiot public servant that pursued this claim:http://www.justice.gov/crt/ofcaag.phpOffice of the Assistant Attorney GeneralMailing AddressU.S.
Department of JusticeCivil Rights Division950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.Office of the Assistant Attorney General, MainWashington, D.C. 20530Telephone Number for the General Public - (202) 514-4609Fax Numbers(202) 514-0293(202) 307-2572(202) 307-2839Telephone Device for the Deaf (TDD) - (202) 514-0716Assistant Attorney GeneralThomas E. Perez</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30757998</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759168</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm, this seems illogical.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263390420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Well, books can be typed in braille, the kindle cannot...   The issue might be that with a kindle, the e-books are very accessible compared to your standard book (probably cheaper?).  Maybe the organization thinks it's an unfair advantage?</p></div><p>Except that you still have to go out and find a Braille version of each book for each student, and they aren't exactly stocked up with them. I don't see how having to go out and get a copy of each book for a blind student is any different than... having to go out and get a copy of each book for a blind student.</p><p>And if they really want to find a better solution, then they need to spend some money investing in a Braille e-book reader.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , books can be typed in braille , the kindle can not... The issue might be that with a kindle , the e-books are very accessible compared to your standard book ( probably cheaper ? ) .
Maybe the organization thinks it 's an unfair advantage ? Except that you still have to go out and find a Braille version of each book for each student , and they are n't exactly stocked up with them .
I do n't see how having to go out and get a copy of each book for a blind student is any different than... having to go out and get a copy of each book for a blind student.And if they really want to find a better solution , then they need to spend some money investing in a Braille e-book reader .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, books can be typed in braille, the kindle cannot...   The issue might be that with a kindle, the e-books are very accessible compared to your standard book (probably cheaper?).
Maybe the organization thinks it's an unfair advantage?Except that you still have to go out and find a Braille version of each book for each student, and they aren't exactly stocked up with them.
I don't see how having to go out and get a copy of each book for a blind student is any different than... having to go out and get a copy of each book for a blind student.And if they really want to find a better solution, then they need to spend some money investing in a Braille e-book reader.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758072</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30765044</id>
	<title>Did they outlaw pens and pencils?</title>
	<author>randombilly</author>
	<datestamp>1263487680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So did they get rid of stop lights on their roads?<p>
Did they drop the use of power point?</p><p>
Have they stopped labeling hallways?</p><p>
Do the teachers not write information on the white board?</p><p>
Does anyone wear a name tag?</p><p>
Have they gotten rid of laptops?</p><p>
Do they not use worksheets?</p><p>
Are other students not allowed to take notes in class?</p><p>
Did they outlaw pens and pencils?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So did they get rid of stop lights on their roads ?
Did they drop the use of power point ?
Have they stopped labeling hallways ?
Do the teachers not write information on the white board ?
Does anyone wear a name tag ?
Have they gotten rid of laptops ?
Do they not use worksheets ?
Are other students not allowed to take notes in class ?
Did they outlaw pens and pencils ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So did they get rid of stop lights on their roads?
Did they drop the use of power point?
Have they stopped labeling hallways?
Do the teachers not write information on the white board?
Does anyone wear a name tag?
Have they gotten rid of laptops?
Do they not use worksheets?
Are other students not allowed to take notes in class?
Did they outlaw pens and pencils?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759076</id>
	<title>Sorry trolls, this is a good thing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263389820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>As someone who has worked in higher ed providing technology for the disabled, I'm happy to see this.  If you actually read TFA, you'll see the issue is that there's no text-to-speech in Kindle's menus, so the blind can't navigate the device.<br> <br>There have been text readers on the market designed for blind people to use on their own for years, there's no excuse for Amazon not to have included this functionality from day one.  Too bad they had to get sued to make it happen, but sometimes that's what it takes.  Hell, I've seen blind kids navigate Windows at ludicrous speed using it's built-in accessibility tools.  If MS can make a whole OS accessible, there's no excuse for Amazon to fail with a simple ebook reader.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As someone who has worked in higher ed providing technology for the disabled , I 'm happy to see this .
If you actually read TFA , you 'll see the issue is that there 's no text-to-speech in Kindle 's menus , so the blind ca n't navigate the device .
There have been text readers on the market designed for blind people to use on their own for years , there 's no excuse for Amazon not to have included this functionality from day one .
Too bad they had to get sued to make it happen , but sometimes that 's what it takes .
Hell , I 've seen blind kids navigate Windows at ludicrous speed using it 's built-in accessibility tools .
If MS can make a whole OS accessible , there 's no excuse for Amazon to fail with a simple ebook reader .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As someone who has worked in higher ed providing technology for the disabled, I'm happy to see this.
If you actually read TFA, you'll see the issue is that there's no text-to-speech in Kindle's menus, so the blind can't navigate the device.
There have been text readers on the market designed for blind people to use on their own for years, there's no excuse for Amazon not to have included this functionality from day one.
Too bad they had to get sued to make it happen, but sometimes that's what it takes.
Hell, I've seen blind kids navigate Windows at ludicrous speed using it's built-in accessibility tools.
If MS can make a whole OS accessible, there's no excuse for Amazon to fail with a simple ebook reader.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758884</id>
	<title>Re:Lot of people misreading the case</title>
	<author>flimflammer</author>
	<datestamp>1263388980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This comment really kind of grinds my gears. Why has law become about suing someone because their product isn't convenient for you? Honestly it was a dumb foresight requiring someone be able to see the menus to enable the speech functionality, but it makes me sad that Amazon was actually sued because of it. Did they settle out of court to change the functionality or did they actually get a judgement against them? I will facedesk repeatedly if it's the later.</p><p>This really reminds me of the various lawsuits against video game manufacturers making games that aren't blind-friendly.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This comment really kind of grinds my gears .
Why has law become about suing someone because their product is n't convenient for you ?
Honestly it was a dumb foresight requiring someone be able to see the menus to enable the speech functionality , but it makes me sad that Amazon was actually sued because of it .
Did they settle out of court to change the functionality or did they actually get a judgement against them ?
I will facedesk repeatedly if it 's the later.This really reminds me of the various lawsuits against video game manufacturers making games that are n't blind-friendly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This comment really kind of grinds my gears.
Why has law become about suing someone because their product isn't convenient for you?
Honestly it was a dumb foresight requiring someone be able to see the menus to enable the speech functionality, but it makes me sad that Amazon was actually sued because of it.
Did they settle out of court to change the functionality or did they actually get a judgement against them?
I will facedesk repeatedly if it's the later.This really reminds me of the various lawsuits against video game manufacturers making games that aren't blind-friendly.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758614</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758800</id>
	<title>pilot program</title>
	<author>Alerius</author>
	<datestamp>1263388620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If I am reading TFA correctly, this was putting a stop to a <b>pilot program</b>. Shouldn't the lack of text-to-speech simply be a finding of the pilot on the way to a final decision on whether to use it or not? And of course, the pilot is being sponsored by the maker of the product, who would hear the concerns and respond to make sure their product meets ALL of the requirements. My question is, after a successful pilot, would they be providing free Kindles to all students or does this become another expense for the already cash strapped student?
</p><p>Aren't the costs of post secondary education more discriminatory to a poor student than the availability of a Kindle is to a blind student?
</p><p>I'm also curious about other classroom "visual aids": Charts, graphs, pictures, the widget the prof holds up to show the students...How have these been handled since starting to make serious efforts to accommodate students that are handicapped...disabled...physically challenged, whatever the politically correct term is now.
</p><p>In my opinion, we do a disservice to these individuals by no longer recognizing that they <b>are</b> overcoming a challenge that other students face and are able to compete on an equal footing <b>in spite</b> of it.
</p><p>Are there any slashdot readers that are themselves blind or deaf or have some other challenge they have had to deal with in a classroom who could weigh in on the topic with first hand experience? I honestly have no real personal point of reference. Other than slowly failing eyesight and hearing due to age, which is more in the pain-in-the-ass category than anything else, I've never had to deal with something like this.
</p><p>I have to admit that on some level, I agree with some comments here that this is like blinding all the rest of the students to make things even. I argued once with a wheelchair-bound friend that it was not discrimination that kept him from being a firefighter, it was his inability to go up and down ladders.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If I am reading TFA correctly , this was putting a stop to a pilot program .
Should n't the lack of text-to-speech simply be a finding of the pilot on the way to a final decision on whether to use it or not ?
And of course , the pilot is being sponsored by the maker of the product , who would hear the concerns and respond to make sure their product meets ALL of the requirements .
My question is , after a successful pilot , would they be providing free Kindles to all students or does this become another expense for the already cash strapped student ?
Are n't the costs of post secondary education more discriminatory to a poor student than the availability of a Kindle is to a blind student ?
I 'm also curious about other classroom " visual aids " : Charts , graphs , pictures , the widget the prof holds up to show the students...How have these been handled since starting to make serious efforts to accommodate students that are handicapped...disabled...physically challenged , whatever the politically correct term is now .
In my opinion , we do a disservice to these individuals by no longer recognizing that they are overcoming a challenge that other students face and are able to compete on an equal footing in spite of it .
Are there any slashdot readers that are themselves blind or deaf or have some other challenge they have had to deal with in a classroom who could weigh in on the topic with first hand experience ?
I honestly have no real personal point of reference .
Other than slowly failing eyesight and hearing due to age , which is more in the pain-in-the-ass category than anything else , I 've never had to deal with something like this .
I have to admit that on some level , I agree with some comments here that this is like blinding all the rest of the students to make things even .
I argued once with a wheelchair-bound friend that it was not discrimination that kept him from being a firefighter , it was his inability to go up and down ladders .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I am reading TFA correctly, this was putting a stop to a pilot program.
Shouldn't the lack of text-to-speech simply be a finding of the pilot on the way to a final decision on whether to use it or not?
And of course, the pilot is being sponsored by the maker of the product, who would hear the concerns and respond to make sure their product meets ALL of the requirements.
My question is, after a successful pilot, would they be providing free Kindles to all students or does this become another expense for the already cash strapped student?
Aren't the costs of post secondary education more discriminatory to a poor student than the availability of a Kindle is to a blind student?
I'm also curious about other classroom "visual aids": Charts, graphs, pictures, the widget the prof holds up to show the students...How have these been handled since starting to make serious efforts to accommodate students that are handicapped...disabled...physically challenged, whatever the politically correct term is now.
In my opinion, we do a disservice to these individuals by no longer recognizing that they are overcoming a challenge that other students face and are able to compete on an equal footing in spite of it.
Are there any slashdot readers that are themselves blind or deaf or have some other challenge they have had to deal with in a classroom who could weigh in on the topic with first hand experience?
I honestly have no real personal point of reference.
Other than slowly failing eyesight and hearing due to age, which is more in the pain-in-the-ass category than anything else, I've never had to deal with something like this.
I have to admit that on some level, I agree with some comments here that this is like blinding all the rest of the students to make things even.
I argued once with a wheelchair-bound friend that it was not discrimination that kept him from being a firefighter, it was his inability to go up and down ladders.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758928</id>
	<title>Re:The other Point of View (or lack thereof)</title>
	<author>Dravik</author>
	<datestamp>1263389160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What were they supposed to do while the other children learned to read?  If you couldn't see the pages they couldn't really teach you to read.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What were they supposed to do while the other children learned to read ?
If you could n't see the pages they could n't really teach you to read .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What were they supposed to do while the other children learned to read?
If you couldn't see the pages they couldn't really teach you to read.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758394</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30760070</id>
	<title>Pens and keyboards...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263396720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Pens and keyboards discriminate against people with no hands.<br>They should all come with an in-built microphone.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Pens and keyboards discriminate against people with no hands.They should all come with an in-built microphone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pens and keyboards discriminate against people with no hands.They should all come with an in-built microphone.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759002</id>
	<title>In other news...</title>
	<author>McBeer</author>
	<datestamp>1263389520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>In other news, public schools will be doing away with the following:

<ul>
<li>Printed books:  The blind cant use those either</li><li>Music programs: discriminate against the deaf</li><li>PE programs: quadriplegics can't participate</li><li>Art involving the colors red and green: the colorblind can't participate fully</li><li>Advanced mathematics: the mentally handicapped can't keep up</li><li>Milk with lunches: the lactose intolerant can't have any</li></ul><p>

I'm all for accommodating the disabled, however denying privileges to the able bodied because not everybody can participate is asinine.  No matter what activity you select, there will be somebody unable to participate.  Do what's best for 99\% of people and then do your best to accommodate the remaining 1\%.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In other news , public schools will be doing away with the following : Printed books : The blind cant use those eitherMusic programs : discriminate against the deafPE programs : quadriplegics ca n't participateArt involving the colors red and green : the colorblind ca n't participate fullyAdvanced mathematics : the mentally handicapped ca n't keep upMilk with lunches : the lactose intolerant ca n't have any I 'm all for accommodating the disabled , however denying privileges to the able bodied because not everybody can participate is asinine .
No matter what activity you select , there will be somebody unable to participate .
Do what 's best for 99 \ % of people and then do your best to accommodate the remaining 1 \ % .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In other news, public schools will be doing away with the following:


Printed books:  The blind cant use those eitherMusic programs: discriminate against the deafPE programs: quadriplegics can't participateArt involving the colors red and green: the colorblind can't participate fullyAdvanced mathematics: the mentally handicapped can't keep upMilk with lunches: the lactose intolerant can't have any

I'm all for accommodating the disabled, however denying privileges to the able bodied because not everybody can participate is asinine.
No matter what activity you select, there will be somebody unable to participate.
Do what's best for 99\% of people and then do your best to accommodate the remaining 1\%.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30762908</id>
	<title>Missing the point</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263477180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've read all the comments.  I think you have missed the real reason this is all happening.  What we have here is a competitor such as Sony that is worried they will lose most/all of the contracts with universities across America now that the trend has been set at these schools.  They are not going to let that happen.  It's not for the reason they say, "the blind students".  There hundreds of billions of reasons that trump any student, but it always sounds better if you can put a pretty bow on it.  Think man!  Do you really believe the DOJ is suddenly interested in helping blind students, just out of the blue, for the good of mankind?  It's a sneaky way for companies to destroy someone's market share without the need of a better/more adopted product.  It's been done before.  You will see a press release soon from the National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind on how e.g. the Sony reader doesn't have the problems of the Kindle, and in a bold move to help students across the country are reducing the price of their reader to match that of the Kindle.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've read all the comments .
I think you have missed the real reason this is all happening .
What we have here is a competitor such as Sony that is worried they will lose most/all of the contracts with universities across America now that the trend has been set at these schools .
They are not going to let that happen .
It 's not for the reason they say , " the blind students " .
There hundreds of billions of reasons that trump any student , but it always sounds better if you can put a pretty bow on it .
Think man !
Do you really believe the DOJ is suddenly interested in helping blind students , just out of the blue , for the good of mankind ?
It 's a sneaky way for companies to destroy someone 's market share without the need of a better/more adopted product .
It 's been done before .
You will see a press release soon from the National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind on how e.g .
the Sony reader does n't have the problems of the Kindle , and in a bold move to help students across the country are reducing the price of their reader to match that of the Kindle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've read all the comments.
I think you have missed the real reason this is all happening.
What we have here is a competitor such as Sony that is worried they will lose most/all of the contracts with universities across America now that the trend has been set at these schools.
They are not going to let that happen.
It's not for the reason they say, "the blind students".
There hundreds of billions of reasons that trump any student, but it always sounds better if you can put a pretty bow on it.
Think man!
Do you really believe the DOJ is suddenly interested in helping blind students, just out of the blue, for the good of mankind?
It's a sneaky way for companies to destroy someone's market share without the need of a better/more adopted product.
It's been done before.
You will see a press release soon from the National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind on how e.g.
the Sony reader doesn't have the problems of the Kindle, and in a bold move to help students across the country are reducing the price of their reader to match that of the Kindle.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758980</id>
	<title>Blame the Author's Guild, not Amazon.</title>
	<author>DigitalCrackPipe</author>
	<datestamp>1263389400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The Kindle was a lot better for visually impaired users until the Author's Guild did their dirty work <a href="http://www.authorsguild.org/advocacy/articles/amazon-reversal-on-text-to-speech.html" title="authorsguild.org">to prevent the text-to-audio feature</a> [authorsguild.org].  <br> <br>
Yes, Amazon should make it easier to navigate but maybe positive pressure rather than lawsuits to prevent the feature would help speed that along.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The Kindle was a lot better for visually impaired users until the Author 's Guild did their dirty work to prevent the text-to-audio feature [ authorsguild.org ] .
Yes , Amazon should make it easier to navigate but maybe positive pressure rather than lawsuits to prevent the feature would help speed that along .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Kindle was a lot better for visually impaired users until the Author's Guild did their dirty work to prevent the text-to-audio feature [authorsguild.org].
Yes, Amazon should make it easier to navigate but maybe positive pressure rather than lawsuits to prevent the feature would help speed that along.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758222</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm, this seems illogical.</title>
	<author>clang\_jangle</author>
	<datestamp>1263386220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Well, books can be typed in braille, the kindle cannot...</p></div> </blockquote><p>
Sure it <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refreshable\_Braille\_display" title="wikipedia.org">can</a> [wikipedia.org].
Maybe The National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind should get off their asses and sponsor it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , books can be typed in braille , the kindle can not.. . Sure it can [ wikipedia.org ] .
Maybe The National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind should get off their asses and sponsor it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, books can be typed in braille, the kindle cannot... 
Sure it can [wikipedia.org].
Maybe The National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind should get off their asses and sponsor it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758072</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758040</id>
	<title>Harrison Bergeron</title>
	<author>SomeJoel</author>
	<datestamp>1263385620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Is it just me, or are stories like this one becoming all too common?
It seems we are becoming a society of "if everyone can't have it, then nobody can!" Unless of course they are individually wealthy, in which case they will simply BUY the damn thing.
<br> <br>
So, sighted (and poor) students are deprived because blind students can't have the same advantages.  Suppose a device was invented that allowed only blind people to receive information. Do you think there would be an outcry from the sighted world that it wasn't "fair" and so should be kept out of their hands?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is it just me , or are stories like this one becoming all too common ?
It seems we are becoming a society of " if everyone ca n't have it , then nobody can !
" Unless of course they are individually wealthy , in which case they will simply BUY the damn thing .
So , sighted ( and poor ) students are deprived because blind students ca n't have the same advantages .
Suppose a device was invented that allowed only blind people to receive information .
Do you think there would be an outcry from the sighted world that it was n't " fair " and so should be kept out of their hands ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is it just me, or are stories like this one becoming all too common?
It seems we are becoming a society of "if everyone can't have it, then nobody can!
" Unless of course they are individually wealthy, in which case they will simply BUY the damn thing.
So, sighted (and poor) students are deprived because blind students can't have the same advantages.
Suppose a device was invented that allowed only blind people to receive information.
Do you think there would be an outcry from the sighted world that it wasn't "fair" and so should be kept out of their hands?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759808</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm, this seems illogical.</title>
	<author>IndustrialComplex</author>
	<datestamp>1263394500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Well, books can be typed in braille, the kindle cannot... </i></p><p>You aren't typing a fucking kindle.  Sorry but this kind of bullshit is nonsense.  If you have a blind student, print out a one-off Braille book.</p><p>You could probably print blind books for every damned blind student in the US for the next hundred years with the money that was wasted on even investigating this whole thing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , books can be typed in braille , the kindle can not... You are n't typing a fucking kindle .
Sorry but this kind of bullshit is nonsense .
If you have a blind student , print out a one-off Braille book.You could probably print blind books for every damned blind student in the US for the next hundred years with the money that was wasted on even investigating this whole thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, books can be typed in braille, the kindle cannot... You aren't typing a fucking kindle.
Sorry but this kind of bullshit is nonsense.
If you have a blind student, print out a one-off Braille book.You could probably print blind books for every damned blind student in the US for the next hundred years with the money that was wasted on even investigating this whole thing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758072</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758634</id>
	<title>Re:I don't understand</title>
	<author>decipher\_saint</author>
	<datestamp>1263387840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I posted this under another comment but I'll explain again;</p><p>If you have the actual book and the student is legally blind the school can simply enlarge the book.</p><p>Being blind isn't a binary thing, there are a lot of blind people that can get along with large print just fine. In this case though I think the real problem is that the Kindle menus don't support text to speech (the device does have a text to speech feature it's only applied to the actual text, which to me is a bit nonsensical but probably makes sense for the "average" consumer).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I posted this under another comment but I 'll explain again ; If you have the actual book and the student is legally blind the school can simply enlarge the book.Being blind is n't a binary thing , there are a lot of blind people that can get along with large print just fine .
In this case though I think the real problem is that the Kindle menus do n't support text to speech ( the device does have a text to speech feature it 's only applied to the actual text , which to me is a bit nonsensical but probably makes sense for the " average " consumer ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I posted this under another comment but I'll explain again;If you have the actual book and the student is legally blind the school can simply enlarge the book.Being blind isn't a binary thing, there are a lot of blind people that can get along with large print just fine.
In this case though I think the real problem is that the Kindle menus don't support text to speech (the device does have a text to speech feature it's only applied to the actual text, which to me is a bit nonsensical but probably makes sense for the "average" consumer).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30757998</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758246</id>
	<title>Re:I don't understand</title>
	<author>yenne</author>
	<datestamp>1263386280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So the maples formed a union<br>
And demanded equal rights<br>
'The oaks are just too greedy<br>
We will make them give us light'<br>
Now there's no more oak oppression<br>
For they passed a noble law<br>
And the trees are all kept equal<br>
By hatchet, axe and saw!</htmltext>
<tokenext>So the maples formed a union And demanded equal rights 'The oaks are just too greedy We will make them give us light ' Now there 's no more oak oppression For they passed a noble law And the trees are all kept equal By hatchet , axe and saw !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So the maples formed a union
And demanded equal rights
'The oaks are just too greedy
We will make them give us light'
Now there's no more oak oppression
For they passed a noble law
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe and saw!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30757998</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30760196</id>
	<title>Im sueing too</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263397920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Im sueing too. Not kindle , no Im sueing the makers of items done in brial. All day long I see people using brail to "Read" all sorts of things. Brail discriminates against myself and others like me.<br>I have NO HANDS. Imagine seeing others enjoy "reading" brail all day long , but when you try you cant understand anything thru your useless withered stump of a wrist. It makes me sad just thinking about it. I should sue for discrimination AND pain and suffering.<br>We as Americans can NOT LET THIS STAND. If anyone with a disablity can not use something It should be banned outright.<br>Blind people start making a list of things you cant see so we can ban them. (gee I hope there is a BRAIL version of slashdot)<br>Deaf people start making a list of things you cant here so we can ban those things as well.<br>Dumb people<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... just go stand in the corner and mumble.<br>People with no sense of smell make a list of everything you cant smell so we can ban that.<br>To cut the list short<br>We should all be reduced to just a brain in a box cut off from all outside contact. With only our thoughts to......<br>Damn forgot about the Republicans...We should all be reduced to brainless sludges in a box.<br>Damn I wish 2012 would get here, im thinking the roaches cant do it any worse than we have so far.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Im sueing too .
Not kindle , no Im sueing the makers of items done in brial .
All day long I see people using brail to " Read " all sorts of things .
Brail discriminates against myself and others like me.I have NO HANDS .
Imagine seeing others enjoy " reading " brail all day long , but when you try you cant understand anything thru your useless withered stump of a wrist .
It makes me sad just thinking about it .
I should sue for discrimination AND pain and suffering.We as Americans can NOT LET THIS STAND .
If anyone with a disablity can not use something It should be banned outright.Blind people start making a list of things you cant see so we can ban them .
( gee I hope there is a BRAIL version of slashdot ) Deaf people start making a list of things you cant here so we can ban those things as well.Dumb people ... just go stand in the corner and mumble.People with no sense of smell make a list of everything you cant smell so we can ban that.To cut the list shortWe should all be reduced to just a brain in a box cut off from all outside contact .
With only our thoughts to......Damn forgot about the Republicans...We should all be reduced to brainless sludges in a box.Damn I wish 2012 would get here , im thinking the roaches cant do it any worse than we have so far .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Im sueing too.
Not kindle , no Im sueing the makers of items done in brial.
All day long I see people using brail to "Read" all sorts of things.
Brail discriminates against myself and others like me.I have NO HANDS.
Imagine seeing others enjoy "reading" brail all day long , but when you try you cant understand anything thru your useless withered stump of a wrist.
It makes me sad just thinking about it.
I should sue for discrimination AND pain and suffering.We as Americans can NOT LET THIS STAND.
If anyone with a disablity can not use something It should be banned outright.Blind people start making a list of things you cant see so we can ban them.
(gee I hope there is a BRAIL version of slashdot)Deaf people start making a list of things you cant here so we can ban those things as well.Dumb people ... just go stand in the corner and mumble.People with no sense of smell make a list of everything you cant smell so we can ban that.To cut the list shortWe should all be reduced to just a brain in a box cut off from all outside contact.
With only our thoughts to......Damn forgot about the Republicans...We should all be reduced to brainless sludges in a box.Damn I wish 2012 would get here, im thinking the roaches cant do it any worse than we have so far.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758064</id>
	<title>hopefully...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263385680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>this will give rise to invention of programmable tactile feedback by means of alterable physical surfaces.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>this will give rise to invention of programmable tactile feedback by means of alterable physical surfaces .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>this will give rise to invention of programmable tactile feedback by means of alterable physical surfaces.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30761768</id>
	<title>Re:Take away everyones eyes!</title>
	<author>multiplexo</author>
	<datestamp>1263502740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What a bunch of fucking wankers and assholes. FTA:<blockquote><div><p>"With regard to the Kindle DX, it can read books aloud, but a blind person cannot independently select a book, start the read-aloud function, or navigate within the book, among other things," he added. "In other words, a blind student could only really use the device with the assistance of a sighted person."</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
Yeah, and how the fuck are blind students going to find books in a library without the assistance of a sighted person? Not too fucking well, because they're blind. So this is just bullshit, a bunch of blind, attention seeking assholes who are pissed off because they're blind and holding the sighted back. Of course the fact that the Kindle is more accessible to individuals with limited sight because the fonts can be resized means nothing to these assholes. Nope, unless your device is fully usable by Helen Keller you can't have it in the classroom, regardless of how much it would benefit the majority of students. Fuckers, we ought to go over to the National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind and rearrange the furniture.
</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What a bunch of fucking wankers and assholes .
FTA : " With regard to the Kindle DX , it can read books aloud , but a blind person can not independently select a book , start the read-aloud function , or navigate within the book , among other things , " he added .
" In other words , a blind student could only really use the device with the assistance of a sighted person .
" Yeah , and how the fuck are blind students going to find books in a library without the assistance of a sighted person ?
Not too fucking well , because they 're blind .
So this is just bullshit , a bunch of blind , attention seeking assholes who are pissed off because they 're blind and holding the sighted back .
Of course the fact that the Kindle is more accessible to individuals with limited sight because the fonts can be resized means nothing to these assholes .
Nope , unless your device is fully usable by Helen Keller you ca n't have it in the classroom , regardless of how much it would benefit the majority of students .
Fuckers , we ought to go over to the National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind and rearrange the furniture .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What a bunch of fucking wankers and assholes.
FTA:"With regard to the Kindle DX, it can read books aloud, but a blind person cannot independently select a book, start the read-aloud function, or navigate within the book, among other things," he added.
"In other words, a blind student could only really use the device with the assistance of a sighted person.
"

Yeah, and how the fuck are blind students going to find books in a library without the assistance of a sighted person?
Not too fucking well, because they're blind.
So this is just bullshit, a bunch of blind, attention seeking assholes who are pissed off because they're blind and holding the sighted back.
Of course the fact that the Kindle is more accessible to individuals with limited sight because the fonts can be resized means nothing to these assholes.
Nope, unless your device is fully usable by Helen Keller you can't have it in the classroom, regardless of how much it would benefit the majority of students.
Fuckers, we ought to go over to the National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind and rearrange the furniture.

	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758412</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758394</id>
	<title>The other Point of View (or lack thereof)</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263386880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You know, when I was a child before I got involved with the <i>Canadian National Institute for the Blind</i> they used to sit me in a corner while the other children learnt silly things like how to read.</p><p>If a device like the Kindle is used in the classroom what are visually impaired children supposed to do? Download illegal text versions and run them through text to speech?</p><p>Damn "sighty" keepin' the blind man down!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You know , when I was a child before I got involved with the Canadian National Institute for the Blind they used to sit me in a corner while the other children learnt silly things like how to read.If a device like the Kindle is used in the classroom what are visually impaired children supposed to do ?
Download illegal text versions and run them through text to speech ? Damn " sighty " keepin ' the blind man down !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know, when I was a child before I got involved with the Canadian National Institute for the Blind they used to sit me in a corner while the other children learnt silly things like how to read.If a device like the Kindle is used in the classroom what are visually impaired children supposed to do?
Download illegal text versions and run them through text to speech?Damn "sighty" keepin' the blind man down!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759450</id>
	<title>No need for fancy gadgets</title>
	<author>Roger W Moore</author>
	<datestamp>1263391800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You don't even need a fancy gadget: text in electronic form is far easier to convert to Braille than written or printed text. Since using the Kindle requires the instructor to have material in electronic form stopping its use is not only stupid but actively counter productive! As a professor our student disability support service greatly prefers me to provide them with electronic material since it makes their life a lot easier. If I provide them with printed material they have to type it in themselves first and manually redraw diagrams which takes far longer.
<br> <br>
Surely the point the this US act is to ensure that people with disabilities have access to the same material not that they have to access it through exactly the same device?</htmltext>
<tokenext>You do n't even need a fancy gadget : text in electronic form is far easier to convert to Braille than written or printed text .
Since using the Kindle requires the instructor to have material in electronic form stopping its use is not only stupid but actively counter productive !
As a professor our student disability support service greatly prefers me to provide them with electronic material since it makes their life a lot easier .
If I provide them with printed material they have to type it in themselves first and manually redraw diagrams which takes far longer .
Surely the point the this US act is to ensure that people with disabilities have access to the same material not that they have to access it through exactly the same device ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You don't even need a fancy gadget: text in electronic form is far easier to convert to Braille than written or printed text.
Since using the Kindle requires the instructor to have material in electronic form stopping its use is not only stupid but actively counter productive!
As a professor our student disability support service greatly prefers me to provide them with electronic material since it makes their life a lot easier.
If I provide them with printed material they have to type it in themselves first and manually redraw diagrams which takes far longer.
Surely the point the this US act is to ensure that people with disabilities have access to the same material not that they have to access it through exactly the same device?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758222</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759136</id>
	<title>Re:ADA?</title>
	<author>jefu</author>
	<datestamp>1263390240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>At my university we get notes from the Disabilities Office, one for each student with a disability, saying what we need to be able to do to make the course accessible.   I think that is becoming more or less standard practice.</htmltext>
<tokenext>At my university we get notes from the Disabilities Office , one for each student with a disability , saying what we need to be able to do to make the course accessible .
I think that is becoming more or less standard practice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At my university we get notes from the Disabilities Office, one for each student with a disability, saying what we need to be able to do to make the course accessible.
I think that is becoming more or less standard practice.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758014</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758074</id>
	<title>Limitation</title>
	<author>McGuirk</author>
	<datestamp>1263385740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, let's limit EVERYONE because a select few can't use a new technology.</p><p>The blind have always needed special teaching tools (Braille, audio books, or someone to read for them), so this isn't like a step backward or anything.</p><p>I feel for the blind, and they should definitely be accommodated, but not using eBook readers where they could be beneficial to others is not a good idea.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , let 's limit EVERYONE because a select few ca n't use a new technology.The blind have always needed special teaching tools ( Braille , audio books , or someone to read for them ) , so this is n't like a step backward or anything.I feel for the blind , and they should definitely be accommodated , but not using eBook readers where they could be beneficial to others is not a good idea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, let's limit EVERYONE because a select few can't use a new technology.The blind have always needed special teaching tools (Braille, audio books, or someone to read for them), so this isn't like a step backward or anything.I feel for the blind, and they should definitely be accommodated, but not using eBook readers where they could be beneficial to others is not a good idea.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758098</id>
	<title>In other news</title>
	<author>ChrisMaple</author>
	<datestamp>1263385860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>There aren't any blind NASCAR drivers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are n't any blind NASCAR drivers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There aren't any blind NASCAR drivers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30761088</id>
	<title>Re:Lot of people misreading the case</title>
	<author>robinesque</author>
	<datestamp>1263407220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Can someone rework this as a car analogy?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Can someone rework this as a car analogy ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can someone rework this as a car analogy?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758614</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758012</id>
	<title>Quick, get rid of normal books too!</title>
	<author>fiordhraoi</author>
	<datestamp>1263385500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You need a completely different model with different capabilities (braille) for blind people to access the information.  And somehow a kindle that doesn't have voice controls for the menu is less blind-friendly than a normal book?

When will people learn that Reality does indeed discriminate?</htmltext>
<tokenext>You need a completely different model with different capabilities ( braille ) for blind people to access the information .
And somehow a kindle that does n't have voice controls for the menu is less blind-friendly than a normal book ?
When will people learn that Reality does indeed discriminate ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You need a completely different model with different capabilities (braille) for blind people to access the information.
And somehow a kindle that doesn't have voice controls for the menu is less blind-friendly than a normal book?
When will people learn that Reality does indeed discriminate?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759054</id>
	<title>And that's not all.</title>
	<author>m\_frankie\_h</author>
	<datestamp>1263389760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is of course the frequent practice of teachers speaking (thus discriminating the deaf) and sometimes even pointing at things (which is highly insensitive to those without arms)</p><p>And don't get me started about some teachers \_teaching\_, discriminating those of us, who are stupid and lazy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is of course the frequent practice of teachers speaking ( thus discriminating the deaf ) and sometimes even pointing at things ( which is highly insensitive to those without arms ) And do n't get me started about some teachers \ _teaching \ _ , discriminating those of us , who are stupid and lazy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is of course the frequent practice of teachers speaking (thus discriminating the deaf) and sometimes even pointing at things (which is highly insensitive to those without arms)And don't get me started about some teachers \_teaching\_, discriminating those of us, who are stupid and lazy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30761098</id>
	<title>Re:Take away everyones eyes!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263407280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Uh.. yeah.. braille textbooks. I don't know if you've actually seen them in bookstores or not. I mean, I certainly didn't at my university. We had 25-30k undergrads, a university operated bookstore, and at least 3 privately operated bookstores. Wanna know how many braille textbooks they stocked? Zero.</p><p>Didn't see any of them at the bookstores of the other major universities nearby either. Although, I will freely admit that i didn't spend nearly so much time in them.</p><p>If the blind advocacy groups wanted to help the blind, they should've gone to the DOJ and said "hey. here's an ereader designed for blind people. get these universities to run pilot programs for this device too." Why? Because one-size-fits-all never does. How many blind people are going to bust out their talking ereader with their study group in the library? How about in a lit class, when you're looking for the text to support your position? Use headphones you say? Sure! We'll just stop all discussion while the blind person searches for the text. After all, we wouldn't to leave the blind student disadvantaged by missing part of the class.</p><p>Even if it was <i>completely</i> technically impossible for the Kindle to serve the blind, the correct action was not to have it pulled from these universities. For the same reason that standard printed textbooks, which blind people can't read, are not pulled. Although, at the pricetags those things have, you wouldn't have seen any student crying for the loss of printed textbooks.</p><p>The universities were running a <i>pilot program</i> for a device that <i>was getting</i> TtS navigation. There was no discrimination. I'm sorry. There wasn't.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Uh.. yeah.. braille textbooks .
I do n't know if you 've actually seen them in bookstores or not .
I mean , I certainly did n't at my university .
We had 25-30k undergrads , a university operated bookstore , and at least 3 privately operated bookstores .
Wan na know how many braille textbooks they stocked ?
Zero.Did n't see any of them at the bookstores of the other major universities nearby either .
Although , I will freely admit that i did n't spend nearly so much time in them.If the blind advocacy groups wanted to help the blind , they should 've gone to the DOJ and said " hey .
here 's an ereader designed for blind people .
get these universities to run pilot programs for this device too .
" Why ?
Because one-size-fits-all never does .
How many blind people are going to bust out their talking ereader with their study group in the library ?
How about in a lit class , when you 're looking for the text to support your position ?
Use headphones you say ?
Sure ! We 'll just stop all discussion while the blind person searches for the text .
After all , we would n't to leave the blind student disadvantaged by missing part of the class.Even if it was completely technically impossible for the Kindle to serve the blind , the correct action was not to have it pulled from these universities .
For the same reason that standard printed textbooks , which blind people ca n't read , are not pulled .
Although , at the pricetags those things have , you would n't have seen any student crying for the loss of printed textbooks.The universities were running a pilot program for a device that was getting TtS navigation .
There was no discrimination .
I 'm sorry .
There was n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Uh.. yeah.. braille textbooks.
I don't know if you've actually seen them in bookstores or not.
I mean, I certainly didn't at my university.
We had 25-30k undergrads, a university operated bookstore, and at least 3 privately operated bookstores.
Wanna know how many braille textbooks they stocked?
Zero.Didn't see any of them at the bookstores of the other major universities nearby either.
Although, I will freely admit that i didn't spend nearly so much time in them.If the blind advocacy groups wanted to help the blind, they should've gone to the DOJ and said "hey.
here's an ereader designed for blind people.
get these universities to run pilot programs for this device too.
" Why?
Because one-size-fits-all never does.
How many blind people are going to bust out their talking ereader with their study group in the library?
How about in a lit class, when you're looking for the text to support your position?
Use headphones you say?
Sure! We'll just stop all discussion while the blind person searches for the text.
After all, we wouldn't to leave the blind student disadvantaged by missing part of the class.Even if it was completely technically impossible for the Kindle to serve the blind, the correct action was not to have it pulled from these universities.
For the same reason that standard printed textbooks, which blind people can't read, are not pulled.
Although, at the pricetags those things have, you wouldn't have seen any student crying for the loss of printed textbooks.The universities were running a pilot program for a device that was getting TtS navigation.
There was no discrimination.
I'm sorry.
There wasn't.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758412</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758962</id>
	<title>So do books</title>
	<author>nurb432</author>
	<datestamp>1263389280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So you give the blind kids braille or audio books, like we do now..  Or is now a real book with print on it not politically correct either?</p><p>What is wrong with people these days?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So you give the blind kids braille or audio books , like we do now.. Or is now a real book with print on it not politically correct either ? What is wrong with people these days ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So you give the blind kids braille or audio books, like we do now..  Or is now a real book with print on it not politically correct either?What is wrong with people these days?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758112</id>
	<title>Blind Leading the Blind</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263385860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So having an advance in technology like, Blackboards, Slide projectors, TV, even video projectors that leave the blind at a disadvantage should stop them from being used as teaching aids in classrooms because the lowest common denominator cannot benifit fully from them?</p><p>Sounds fine, oh wait I'm deaf. So lectures, teachers that can't sign and any form of audio presentation is bad.</p><p>OR, you know, we can all live in "not crazy land". Then we could give them brail ebook readers like there should bave been around before visual ebooks!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So having an advance in technology like , Blackboards , Slide projectors , TV , even video projectors that leave the blind at a disadvantage should stop them from being used as teaching aids in classrooms because the lowest common denominator can not benifit fully from them ? Sounds fine , oh wait I 'm deaf .
So lectures , teachers that ca n't sign and any form of audio presentation is bad.OR , you know , we can all live in " not crazy land " .
Then we could give them brail ebook readers like there should bave been around before visual ebooks !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So having an advance in technology like, Blackboards, Slide projectors, TV, even video projectors that leave the blind at a disadvantage should stop them from being used as teaching aids in classrooms because the lowest common denominator cannot benifit fully from them?Sounds fine, oh wait I'm deaf.
So lectures, teachers that can't sign and any form of audio presentation is bad.OR, you know, we can all live in "not crazy land".
Then we could give them brail ebook readers like there should bave been around before visual ebooks!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30760836</id>
	<title>e-book donations?</title>
	<author>utopia27</author>
	<datestamp>1263403860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a sighted person and a consumer of college texts, I hearby pledge to donate 1/4 of the difference between dead tree texts and e-book texts to developing a kick-ass text distribution/consumption capability for the disabled.</p><p>Seriously - how much end-user savings will this generate for the primary target audience?</p><p>I have a serious problem with DoJ denying the university the authority to use a particular technology and demand that the technology incorporate a particular feature set.  ADA gives DoJ authority to require the university to provide a REASONABLE ACCOMODATION for those with disabilities that prevent their use of standard facilities/capabilities.</p><p>IMHO, requiring Amazon to change the feature set of their commercial product based on ADA for higher education is NOT a reasonable accomodation.  The fact that they're big, capable, and that "they just need to abc xyz" is NOT a valid arugment for the reasonableness of the accomodation.  Now I have a feeling the settlement actually said that the universities can't make the kindle (or similar device) mandatory until such time as they adequately support folks with disabilities (I'm assuming that's 508 compliance ).  Which amounts to requiring Amazon to implement a broad feature set to support a fractionally sized community in order to get access to a large market.</p><p>So the precedent is now set - any disability community can leverage any public venue to pick the pocket of a large corporation and require them to accomodate their disability to gain access to the public venue.  And the explicit leverage is that the majority of the inhabitants of the public venue will be locked out of the technology or innovation.  OK - maybe that's abstract.  But now it's a reality, with legal precedent.</p><p>Wasn't the point of Atlas Shrugged that if society lays too many burdens, obstacles, and demands on those actually producing (like Amazon...) that their ultimate recourse is to stop producing?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a sighted person and a consumer of college texts , I hearby pledge to donate 1/4 of the difference between dead tree texts and e-book texts to developing a kick-ass text distribution/consumption capability for the disabled.Seriously - how much end-user savings will this generate for the primary target audience ? I have a serious problem with DoJ denying the university the authority to use a particular technology and demand that the technology incorporate a particular feature set .
ADA gives DoJ authority to require the university to provide a REASONABLE ACCOMODATION for those with disabilities that prevent their use of standard facilities/capabilities.IMHO , requiring Amazon to change the feature set of their commercial product based on ADA for higher education is NOT a reasonable accomodation .
The fact that they 're big , capable , and that " they just need to abc xyz " is NOT a valid arugment for the reasonableness of the accomodation .
Now I have a feeling the settlement actually said that the universities ca n't make the kindle ( or similar device ) mandatory until such time as they adequately support folks with disabilities ( I 'm assuming that 's 508 compliance ) .
Which amounts to requiring Amazon to implement a broad feature set to support a fractionally sized community in order to get access to a large market.So the precedent is now set - any disability community can leverage any public venue to pick the pocket of a large corporation and require them to accomodate their disability to gain access to the public venue .
And the explicit leverage is that the majority of the inhabitants of the public venue will be locked out of the technology or innovation .
OK - maybe that 's abstract .
But now it 's a reality , with legal precedent.Was n't the point of Atlas Shrugged that if society lays too many burdens , obstacles , and demands on those actually producing ( like Amazon... ) that their ultimate recourse is to stop producing ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a sighted person and a consumer of college texts, I hearby pledge to donate 1/4 of the difference between dead tree texts and e-book texts to developing a kick-ass text distribution/consumption capability for the disabled.Seriously - how much end-user savings will this generate for the primary target audience?I have a serious problem with DoJ denying the university the authority to use a particular technology and demand that the technology incorporate a particular feature set.
ADA gives DoJ authority to require the university to provide a REASONABLE ACCOMODATION for those with disabilities that prevent their use of standard facilities/capabilities.IMHO, requiring Amazon to change the feature set of their commercial product based on ADA for higher education is NOT a reasonable accomodation.
The fact that they're big, capable, and that "they just need to abc xyz" is NOT a valid arugment for the reasonableness of the accomodation.
Now I have a feeling the settlement actually said that the universities can't make the kindle (or similar device) mandatory until such time as they adequately support folks with disabilities (I'm assuming that's 508 compliance ).
Which amounts to requiring Amazon to implement a broad feature set to support a fractionally sized community in order to get access to a large market.So the precedent is now set - any disability community can leverage any public venue to pick the pocket of a large corporation and require them to accomodate their disability to gain access to the public venue.
And the explicit leverage is that the majority of the inhabitants of the public venue will be locked out of the technology or innovation.
OK - maybe that's abstract.
But now it's a reality, with legal precedent.Wasn't the point of Atlas Shrugged that if society lays too many burdens, obstacles, and demands on those actually producing (like Amazon...) that their ultimate recourse is to stop producing?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30762706</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm, this seems illogical.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263474300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Can it? I didn't see any mention in that link of any Kindle models that use that device. Can you provide a link to a Kindle with a braille display?


Maybe The National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind should get off their asses and sponsor it.

Ahh... in other words you have no idea what you're talking about and you thought you'd post an irrelevant link and suggest that someone else should do Amazon's R&amp;D work for them for free.</p></div></blockquote><p>
Bit of a dim bulb, ain'tcha?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Can it ?
I did n't see any mention in that link of any Kindle models that use that device .
Can you provide a link to a Kindle with a braille display ?
Maybe The National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind should get off their asses and sponsor it .
Ahh... in other words you have no idea what you 're talking about and you thought you 'd post an irrelevant link and suggest that someone else should do Amazon 's R&amp;D work for them for free .
Bit of a dim bulb , ain'tcha ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can it?
I didn't see any mention in that link of any Kindle models that use that device.
Can you provide a link to a Kindle with a braille display?
Maybe The National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind should get off their asses and sponsor it.
Ahh... in other words you have no idea what you're talking about and you thought you'd post an irrelevant link and suggest that someone else should do Amazon's R&amp;D work for them for free.
Bit of a dim bulb, ain'tcha?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759010</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758352</id>
	<title>Harrison Bergeron</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263386760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think it's unfair that able-bodied students can get around campus quicker than the physically handicapped.  All able-bodied students should be made to wear bags of birdshot during school hours.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it 's unfair that able-bodied students can get around campus quicker than the physically handicapped .
All able-bodied students should be made to wear bags of birdshot during school hours .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it's unfair that able-bodied students can get around campus quicker than the physically handicapped.
All able-bodied students should be made to wear bags of birdshot during school hours.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758046</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm, this seems illogical.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263385620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Besides, retards can't usually read anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Besides , retards ca n't usually read anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Besides, retards can't usually read anyway.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30757968</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759150</id>
	<title>Quick!  Someone outlaw the blackboard!</title>
	<author>Zero\_\_Kelvin</author>
	<datestamp>1263390360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>"The complaints about the Kindle were based on the Americans with Disabilities Act, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability. "</p></div></blockquote><p>We need to outlaw <b> <i>all</i></b>  colleges, as they require a certain level of grades and use SAT scores as admission criterea, which discriminates against people with low IQs known as learning disabled!  At the very least we should outlaw the blackboard, which clealry is in violation of the same core principle of equal access to the blind.  Holy <b> <i>shit</i></b>  these people are morons!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" The complaints about the Kindle were based on the Americans with Disabilities Act , which prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability .
" We need to outlaw all colleges , as they require a certain level of grades and use SAT scores as admission criterea , which discriminates against people with low IQs known as learning disabled !
At the very least we should outlaw the blackboard , which clealry is in violation of the same core principle of equal access to the blind .
Holy shit these people are morons !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"The complaints about the Kindle were based on the Americans with Disabilities Act, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability.
"We need to outlaw  all  colleges, as they require a certain level of grades and use SAT scores as admission criterea, which discriminates against people with low IQs known as learning disabled!
At the very least we should outlaw the blackboard, which clealry is in violation of the same core principle of equal access to the blind.
Holy  shit  these people are morons!
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30760018</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm, this seems illogical.</title>
	<author>RobertM1968</author>
	<datestamp>1263396240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>Well, books can be typed in braille, the kindle cannot... The issue might be that with a kindle, the e-books are very accessible compared to your standard book (probably cheaper?). Maybe the organization thinks it's an unfair advantage?</p></div><p>1: Sure e-books can be put into "braille".  There are even a plethora of devices that'll do it, or just read teh darn thing aloud.</p><p>2: Braille books are EXPENSIVE.  They have a far smaller audience, need thicker paper, usually can use only one side of the paper... and can't be printed out on the same equipment as everyone else's books.</p><p>Given those two, the association at play should demand GREATER adoption of e-books -- it's a printed book that the blind cannot read, not a properly formatted e-book</p></div><p>You bring up great points... but there is MORE!!! I wish I had the link... found it a while ago and lost it.

</p><p>...but there are braille devices that will "display" a line or two at a time and then "display" the next set of text when you are ready to move on to the next line. The thing is basically a rectangular device with electronically raised "bumps" that can be changed for each line of text. Kinda like a computer controlled version of that "many pin thing that you can make shapes with when you press an object onto it"

</p><p>The possiblities with the Kindle and other such devices are thus amazing! It makes even braille cheaper for blind students, as one device is needed, instead of buying dozens of different books.


</p><p>This, (the Kindle) and one of the electronic braille "readers" attached would level the financial playing field for blind students! Instead of paying many times more for a braille version of a book, or hoping the publisher has one in braille, ANY book (without assinine copyright restrictions) could be "displayed" in braille.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , books can be typed in braille , the kindle can not... The issue might be that with a kindle , the e-books are very accessible compared to your standard book ( probably cheaper ? ) .
Maybe the organization thinks it 's an unfair advantage ? 1 : Sure e-books can be put into " braille " .
There are even a plethora of devices that 'll do it , or just read teh darn thing aloud.2 : Braille books are EXPENSIVE .
They have a far smaller audience , need thicker paper , usually can use only one side of the paper... and ca n't be printed out on the same equipment as everyone else 's books.Given those two , the association at play should demand GREATER adoption of e-books -- it 's a printed book that the blind can not read , not a properly formatted e-bookYou bring up great points... but there is MORE ! ! !
I wish I had the link... found it a while ago and lost it .
...but there are braille devices that will " display " a line or two at a time and then " display " the next set of text when you are ready to move on to the next line .
The thing is basically a rectangular device with electronically raised " bumps " that can be changed for each line of text .
Kinda like a computer controlled version of that " many pin thing that you can make shapes with when you press an object onto it " The possiblities with the Kindle and other such devices are thus amazing !
It makes even braille cheaper for blind students , as one device is needed , instead of buying dozens of different books .
This , ( the Kindle ) and one of the electronic braille " readers " attached would level the financial playing field for blind students !
Instead of paying many times more for a braille version of a book , or hoping the publisher has one in braille , ANY book ( without assinine copyright restrictions ) could be " displayed " in braille .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, books can be typed in braille, the kindle cannot... The issue might be that with a kindle, the e-books are very accessible compared to your standard book (probably cheaper?).
Maybe the organization thinks it's an unfair advantage?1: Sure e-books can be put into "braille".
There are even a plethora of devices that'll do it, or just read teh darn thing aloud.2: Braille books are EXPENSIVE.
They have a far smaller audience, need thicker paper, usually can use only one side of the paper... and can't be printed out on the same equipment as everyone else's books.Given those two, the association at play should demand GREATER adoption of e-books -- it's a printed book that the blind cannot read, not a properly formatted e-bookYou bring up great points... but there is MORE!!!
I wish I had the link... found it a while ago and lost it.
...but there are braille devices that will "display" a line or two at a time and then "display" the next set of text when you are ready to move on to the next line.
The thing is basically a rectangular device with electronically raised "bumps" that can be changed for each line of text.
Kinda like a computer controlled version of that "many pin thing that you can make shapes with when you press an object onto it"

The possiblities with the Kindle and other such devices are thus amazing!
It makes even braille cheaper for blind students, as one device is needed, instead of buying dozens of different books.
This, (the Kindle) and one of the electronic braille "readers" attached would level the financial playing field for blind students!
Instead of paying many times more for a braille version of a book, or hoping the publisher has one in braille, ANY book (without assinine copyright restrictions) could be "displayed" in braille.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758228</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30762168</id>
	<title>Re:Take away everyones eyes!</title>
	<author>Tom</author>
	<datestamp>1263466320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"to discriminate" merely means to differentiate. And - newsflash - there <b>are</b> functional differences between blind and sighted people.</p><p>There are cases of discrimination that are justified, and those that are not. If you believe that, say, black people are not as intelligent as white people, you'd better show your evidence. However, blind, deaf and otherwise disabled people <b>do</b> have a functional difference to the rest of us. Like, they can't see (or hear, etc.).</p><p>That's a simple fact.</p><p>How we handle that fact is a decision of society. It is <b>not</b> any kind of natural law or right or whatever.</p><p>At this point, I feel a bit like saying: "Society has decided to go out of its ways to help you. But don't push it."</p><p>I personally don't mind giving disabled people a bit of support. I get very much ticked off when they think they have a right to it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" to discriminate " merely means to differentiate .
And - newsflash - there are functional differences between blind and sighted people.There are cases of discrimination that are justified , and those that are not .
If you believe that , say , black people are not as intelligent as white people , you 'd better show your evidence .
However , blind , deaf and otherwise disabled people do have a functional difference to the rest of us .
Like , they ca n't see ( or hear , etc .
) .That 's a simple fact.How we handle that fact is a decision of society .
It is not any kind of natural law or right or whatever.At this point , I feel a bit like saying : " Society has decided to go out of its ways to help you .
But do n't push it .
" I personally do n't mind giving disabled people a bit of support .
I get very much ticked off when they think they have a right to it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"to discriminate" merely means to differentiate.
And - newsflash - there are functional differences between blind and sighted people.There are cases of discrimination that are justified, and those that are not.
If you believe that, say, black people are not as intelligent as white people, you'd better show your evidence.
However, blind, deaf and otherwise disabled people do have a functional difference to the rest of us.
Like, they can't see (or hear, etc.
).That's a simple fact.How we handle that fact is a decision of society.
It is not any kind of natural law or right or whatever.At this point, I feel a bit like saying: "Society has decided to go out of its ways to help you.
But don't push it.
"I personally don't mind giving disabled people a bit of support.
I get very much ticked off when they think they have a right to it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758412</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758444</id>
	<title>Let's take this to it's logical extreme</title>
	<author>Locke2005</author>
	<datestamp>1263387120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Attractive supermodels should be required by law to date just as many overweight computer geeks living in their mom's basement as rich, attractive, professional athletes. We're being discriminated against! Tiger Woods is getting more pussy than we do!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Attractive supermodels should be required by law to date just as many overweight computer geeks living in their mom 's basement as rich , attractive , professional athletes .
We 're being discriminated against !
Tiger Woods is getting more pussy than we do !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Attractive supermodels should be required by law to date just as many overweight computer geeks living in their mom's basement as rich, attractive, professional athletes.
We're being discriminated against!
Tiger Woods is getting more pussy than we do!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30760946</id>
	<title>Re:In other news</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263405240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>There aren't any blind NASCAR drivers.</i></p><p>but there SHOULD be.  would be almost worth watching.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are n't any blind NASCAR drivers.but there SHOULD be .
would be almost worth watching .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There aren't any blind NASCAR drivers.but there SHOULD be.
would be almost worth watching.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758056</id>
	<title>DOJ in classroom...</title>
	<author>Dog-Cow</author>
	<datestamp>1263385680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The DOJ in the classroom hurts everyone.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The DOJ in the classroom hurts everyone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The DOJ in the classroom hurts everyone.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30763550</id>
	<title>Text to speech</title>
	<author>Thaelon</author>
	<datestamp>1263482160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Doesn't the kindle have rudimentary text-to-speech?  Whereas most dead-tree books most certainly do not.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does n't the kindle have rudimentary text-to-speech ?
Whereas most dead-tree books most certainly do not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Doesn't the kindle have rudimentary text-to-speech?
Whereas most dead-tree books most certainly do not.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30760038</id>
	<title>Re:Take away everyones eyes!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263396420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This just in.</p><p>The DOJ have now legalized suing both Nature and Chaos.</p><p>In other news.. Blind people across the nation are teaming up with retards to sue Charles Darwin unlawfully forcing them to adhere to evolution.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This just in.The DOJ have now legalized suing both Nature and Chaos.In other news.. Blind people across the nation are teaming up with retards to sue Charles Darwin unlawfully forcing them to adhere to evolution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This just in.The DOJ have now legalized suing both Nature and Chaos.In other news.. Blind people across the nation are teaming up with retards to sue Charles Darwin unlawfully forcing them to adhere to evolution.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758108</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759546</id>
	<title>Re:The other Point of View (or lack thereof)</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263392400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Good, that means the pace of my child's learning wasn't hindered by your problems. What are you suppose to do when other kids are using a kindle? Oh, I don't know. What do you do when they are using books? Oh that's right: braille, books-on-tape, etc. No one is keeping you down but you. Do we have to give up cars too because you can't drive? Do my children have to give up their bikes? It must suck to be you, but sorry, pal, it is your problem. I've got my own.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Good , that means the pace of my child 's learning was n't hindered by your problems .
What are you suppose to do when other kids are using a kindle ?
Oh , I do n't know .
What do you do when they are using books ?
Oh that 's right : braille , books-on-tape , etc .
No one is keeping you down but you .
Do we have to give up cars too because you ca n't drive ?
Do my children have to give up their bikes ?
It must suck to be you , but sorry , pal , it is your problem .
I 've got my own .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good, that means the pace of my child's learning wasn't hindered by your problems.
What are you suppose to do when other kids are using a kindle?
Oh, I don't know.
What do you do when they are using books?
Oh that's right: braille, books-on-tape, etc.
No one is keeping you down but you.
Do we have to give up cars too because you can't drive?
Do my children have to give up their bikes?
It must suck to be you, but sorry, pal, it is your problem.
I've got my own.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758394</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758464</id>
	<title>Remove all visual media NOW</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263387180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> I actually have a blind child, and even I think this is ridiculous.</p><p>Based on this line of thinking, all LCD screens, whiteboards, books, and writing devices other than hole punchers and braile stampers should be immediately removed from all Public schools and government buildings. These devices hurt blind students and citizens.</p><p>That case should have been IMMEDIATELY tossed out of court based on the sheer stupidty of the argument. Then the lawyers should have been found in contempt of court and incompetent to practice law.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I actually have a blind child , and even I think this is ridiculous.Based on this line of thinking , all LCD screens , whiteboards , books , and writing devices other than hole punchers and braile stampers should be immediately removed from all Public schools and government buildings .
These devices hurt blind students and citizens.That case should have been IMMEDIATELY tossed out of court based on the sheer stupidty of the argument .
Then the lawyers should have been found in contempt of court and incompetent to practice law .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> I actually have a blind child, and even I think this is ridiculous.Based on this line of thinking, all LCD screens, whiteboards, books, and writing devices other than hole punchers and braile stampers should be immediately removed from all Public schools and government buildings.
These devices hurt blind students and citizens.That case should have been IMMEDIATELY tossed out of court based on the sheer stupidty of the argument.
Then the lawyers should have been found in contempt of court and incompetent to practice law.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30760708</id>
	<title>Re:Have the blind sued the car makers?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263402660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>no they are not exempt from ADA requirements. the handicapped do have access to handicap controls in cars. you also get handicap parking stickers and wheelchair accessible parking spots. vision is a primary function of driving so the blind cannot do that. but other handicapped users can drive cars and car manufacturers provide the necessary accessories.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>no they are not exempt from ADA requirements .
the handicapped do have access to handicap controls in cars .
you also get handicap parking stickers and wheelchair accessible parking spots .
vision is a primary function of driving so the blind can not do that .
but other handicapped users can drive cars and car manufacturers provide the necessary accessories .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>no they are not exempt from ADA requirements.
the handicapped do have access to handicap controls in cars.
you also get handicap parking stickers and wheelchair accessible parking spots.
vision is a primary function of driving so the blind cannot do that.
but other handicapped users can drive cars and car manufacturers provide the necessary accessories.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758066</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759022</id>
	<title>More blind on the PGA and in the NBA!!</title>
	<author>scrout</author>
	<datestamp>1263389640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Obviously, sighted sports are also discriminatory.
But hey, with the right club I can now beat Tiger....</htmltext>
<tokenext>Obviously , sighted sports are also discriminatory .
But hey , with the right club I can now beat Tiger... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Obviously, sighted sports are also discriminatory.
But hey, with the right club I can now beat Tiger....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758018</id>
	<title>Somebody please tell the DOJ</title>
	<author>Vinegar Joe</author>
	<datestamp>1263385560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That Harrison Bergeron is a warning........not a fucking "how-to" manual.</p><p><a href="http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html" title="tnellen.com">http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html</a> [tnellen.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That Harrison Bergeron is a warning........not a fucking " how-to " manual.http : //www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html [ tnellen.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That Harrison Bergeron is a warning........not a fucking "how-to" manual.http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html [tnellen.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758564</id>
	<title>Harrison Bergeron</title>
	<author>\_KiTA\_</author>
	<datestamp>1263387540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Anyone else get a Harrison Bergeron vibe here?  I'm not blind, but because one of my coworkers are, it would be unfair for me to use my eyes.</p><p>The Kindle has text to speech.  There is absolutely no justification for this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anyone else get a Harrison Bergeron vibe here ?
I 'm not blind , but because one of my coworkers are , it would be unfair for me to use my eyes.The Kindle has text to speech .
There is absolutely no justification for this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anyone else get a Harrison Bergeron vibe here?
I'm not blind, but because one of my coworkers are, it would be unfair for me to use my eyes.The Kindle has text to speech.
There is absolutely no justification for this.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758108</id>
	<title>Take away everyones eyes!</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1263385860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Clearly, the only way to be fair to the blind is to rip out everyone elses eyeballs so we're all equal.  If no one can READ A BOOK or use a kindle than there will be no discrimination.</p><p>This is obviously a clear cut case of intentional discrimination against the blind, just like those evil bastards who invented the printing press.</p><p>Let me give you a hint.  You're blind.  You can not do the same things as people who aren't blind.  It sucks, but thats just fucking reality.  Stop expecting everyone else to cater to you.  You make your own way in this world, start acting like you deserve a place in the world.</p><p>It could be a lot worse.  If were were anything like<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... oh<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... every other living organism on the planet, the blind wouldn't live long enough to know what school ways, let alone bitch about not being able to use the device (kindle) that is replacing another device (traditional book) that you couldn't use either.</p><p>There is no discrimination, just some retards trying to get money for themselves by ranting about discrimination against a group of people.  The only problem is, the thing doing the discrimination is nature and chaos, and they can't sue that.</p><p>So take away everyones eyes.  Then we'll all support the blind better.  We'll all be on a level FAIR playing field, and as a bonus, we'll never see another flash movie again.  It makes total sense.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Clearly , the only way to be fair to the blind is to rip out everyone elses eyeballs so we 're all equal .
If no one can READ A BOOK or use a kindle than there will be no discrimination.This is obviously a clear cut case of intentional discrimination against the blind , just like those evil bastards who invented the printing press.Let me give you a hint .
You 're blind .
You can not do the same things as people who are n't blind .
It sucks , but thats just fucking reality .
Stop expecting everyone else to cater to you .
You make your own way in this world , start acting like you deserve a place in the world.It could be a lot worse .
If were were anything like ... oh ... every other living organism on the planet , the blind would n't live long enough to know what school ways , let alone bitch about not being able to use the device ( kindle ) that is replacing another device ( traditional book ) that you could n't use either.There is no discrimination , just some retards trying to get money for themselves by ranting about discrimination against a group of people .
The only problem is , the thing doing the discrimination is nature and chaos , and they ca n't sue that.So take away everyones eyes .
Then we 'll all support the blind better .
We 'll all be on a level FAIR playing field , and as a bonus , we 'll never see another flash movie again .
It makes total sense .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Clearly, the only way to be fair to the blind is to rip out everyone elses eyeballs so we're all equal.
If no one can READ A BOOK or use a kindle than there will be no discrimination.This is obviously a clear cut case of intentional discrimination against the blind, just like those evil bastards who invented the printing press.Let me give you a hint.
You're blind.
You can not do the same things as people who aren't blind.
It sucks, but thats just fucking reality.
Stop expecting everyone else to cater to you.
You make your own way in this world, start acting like you deserve a place in the world.It could be a lot worse.
If were were anything like ... oh ... every other living organism on the planet, the blind wouldn't live long enough to know what school ways, let alone bitch about not being able to use the device (kindle) that is replacing another device (traditional book) that you couldn't use either.There is no discrimination, just some retards trying to get money for themselves by ranting about discrimination against a group of people.
The only problem is, the thing doing the discrimination is nature and chaos, and they can't sue that.So take away everyones eyes.
Then we'll all support the blind better.
We'll all be on a level FAIR playing field, and as a bonus, we'll never see another flash movie again.
It makes total sense.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30761434</id>
	<title>Re:Take away everyones eyes!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263411000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>no, real discrimination is purposely hindering someone or singling them out on some basis.  selecting the most popular e-book reader to offer digital text books on without regard to other factors is NOT discrimination.  i defy you to provide any evidence at all that the kindle was chosen specifically because it would be inaccessible to blind students.  the universities choosing the kindle specifically for that reason is the ONLY way this is discrimination.</p><p>discrimination CANNOT be incidental, it can only be intentional and purposeful.  anything else is an abuse of the word 'discrimination.'</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>no , real discrimination is purposely hindering someone or singling them out on some basis .
selecting the most popular e-book reader to offer digital text books on without regard to other factors is NOT discrimination .
i defy you to provide any evidence at all that the kindle was chosen specifically because it would be inaccessible to blind students .
the universities choosing the kindle specifically for that reason is the ONLY way this is discrimination.discrimination CAN NOT be incidental , it can only be intentional and purposeful .
anything else is an abuse of the word 'discrimination .
'</tokentext>
<sentencetext>no, real discrimination is purposely hindering someone or singling them out on some basis.
selecting the most popular e-book reader to offer digital text books on without regard to other factors is NOT discrimination.
i defy you to provide any evidence at all that the kindle was chosen specifically because it would be inaccessible to blind students.
the universities choosing the kindle specifically for that reason is the ONLY way this is discrimination.discrimination CANNOT be incidental, it can only be intentional and purposeful.
anything else is an abuse of the word 'discrimination.
'</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758412</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758070</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm, this seems illogical.</title>
	<author>e9th</author>
	<datestamp>1263385680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What did schools do pre-Kindle?  Shun books that weren't also available in Braille?</htmltext>
<tokenext>What did schools do pre-Kindle ?
Shun books that were n't also available in Braille ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What did schools do pre-Kindle?
Shun books that weren't also available in Braille?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30757968</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758754</id>
	<title>Re:ADA?</title>
	<author>interkin3tic</author>
	<datestamp>1263388380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My guess is that's not actually for physical disabilities, it's for learning disabilities.  Many universities have policies whereby students with learning disabilities are given special arrangements.  If you have bad attention deficit, you might be able to take the finals completely separate from other students.  Typically one of those options is if you have a learning/reading disability you get extra time on the final.</p><p>That's all well and good, except there are obviously going to be some students who take advantage of that.</p><p>I was proctoring one three hour final exam after a full semester of teaching the class.  A student walks in with a note from the appropriate center saying "This student has a learning disability and is entitled to twice the normal amount of time for the exam."  ON THE DAY OF THE EXAM.  No advance notice, she just expected me to drop everything and spend the rest of my day for her.  Threw royal hissy fits all the way up the administrative tree when I said absolutely not, even though the letter itself said in big bold letters that the student was obligated to contact the professor at least two weeks in advance.</p><p>I've heard of other institutions dealing with similar problem students, ones who feel entitled to having the world bend over to them, because it's not their fault they didn't learn the material, it's the professors, or if the professor is found to be blameless it's the TA, or their disability not being compensated for.</p><p>Have to emphasize here that most students with learning disabilities aren't in that category, most don't want to be held to a lower standard at all.  A sense that the world owes me is not a valid disability, and if I seem hostile, it's entirely directed at the few lazy arrogant students who are abusing this.</p><p>Anyway, my guess is that is another layer of insulation to head that off at the pass, since many students abusing it are too lazy to make advance arrangements before they get into hot water gradwise.  I would also guess that most of those students try it anyway and complain to whoever they can get despite that notice.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My guess is that 's not actually for physical disabilities , it 's for learning disabilities .
Many universities have policies whereby students with learning disabilities are given special arrangements .
If you have bad attention deficit , you might be able to take the finals completely separate from other students .
Typically one of those options is if you have a learning/reading disability you get extra time on the final.That 's all well and good , except there are obviously going to be some students who take advantage of that.I was proctoring one three hour final exam after a full semester of teaching the class .
A student walks in with a note from the appropriate center saying " This student has a learning disability and is entitled to twice the normal amount of time for the exam .
" ON THE DAY OF THE EXAM .
No advance notice , she just expected me to drop everything and spend the rest of my day for her .
Threw royal hissy fits all the way up the administrative tree when I said absolutely not , even though the letter itself said in big bold letters that the student was obligated to contact the professor at least two weeks in advance.I 've heard of other institutions dealing with similar problem students , ones who feel entitled to having the world bend over to them , because it 's not their fault they did n't learn the material , it 's the professors , or if the professor is found to be blameless it 's the TA , or their disability not being compensated for.Have to emphasize here that most students with learning disabilities are n't in that category , most do n't want to be held to a lower standard at all .
A sense that the world owes me is not a valid disability , and if I seem hostile , it 's entirely directed at the few lazy arrogant students who are abusing this.Anyway , my guess is that is another layer of insulation to head that off at the pass , since many students abusing it are too lazy to make advance arrangements before they get into hot water gradwise .
I would also guess that most of those students try it anyway and complain to whoever they can get despite that notice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My guess is that's not actually for physical disabilities, it's for learning disabilities.
Many universities have policies whereby students with learning disabilities are given special arrangements.
If you have bad attention deficit, you might be able to take the finals completely separate from other students.
Typically one of those options is if you have a learning/reading disability you get extra time on the final.That's all well and good, except there are obviously going to be some students who take advantage of that.I was proctoring one three hour final exam after a full semester of teaching the class.
A student walks in with a note from the appropriate center saying "This student has a learning disability and is entitled to twice the normal amount of time for the exam.
"  ON THE DAY OF THE EXAM.
No advance notice, she just expected me to drop everything and spend the rest of my day for her.
Threw royal hissy fits all the way up the administrative tree when I said absolutely not, even though the letter itself said in big bold letters that the student was obligated to contact the professor at least two weeks in advance.I've heard of other institutions dealing with similar problem students, ones who feel entitled to having the world bend over to them, because it's not their fault they didn't learn the material, it's the professors, or if the professor is found to be blameless it's the TA, or their disability not being compensated for.Have to emphasize here that most students with learning disabilities aren't in that category, most don't want to be held to a lower standard at all.
A sense that the world owes me is not a valid disability, and if I seem hostile, it's entirely directed at the few lazy arrogant students who are abusing this.Anyway, my guess is that is another layer of insulation to head that off at the pass, since many students abusing it are too lazy to make advance arrangements before they get into hot water gradwise.
I would also guess that most of those students try it anyway and complain to whoever they can get despite that notice.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758014</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758412</id>
	<title>Re:Take away everyones eyes!</title>
	<author>gurps\_npc</author>
	<datestamp>1263386940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wow, so full of hate.  You see there are these things called BRAILLE TEXTBOOKS.

But when the school starts pushing kindle (with real cost savings for sighted people), and at the same time refuses to use a DIFFERENT READER that has TEXT TO VOICE, then YES the blind people got a case.

This is not about the school offering an ebook reader.  It is about the school PUSHING an ebook reader that does NOT have the same capacities that other existing ebook readers do have.

Yeah, I know you are full of your self and insisting that other people MUST be suing for no reasons.  But if you had a brain you would realize that sometimes law suits are actually about real discrimination.

Like this one.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow , so full of hate .
You see there are these things called BRAILLE TEXTBOOKS .
But when the school starts pushing kindle ( with real cost savings for sighted people ) , and at the same time refuses to use a DIFFERENT READER that has TEXT TO VOICE , then YES the blind people got a case .
This is not about the school offering an ebook reader .
It is about the school PUSHING an ebook reader that does NOT have the same capacities that other existing ebook readers do have .
Yeah , I know you are full of your self and insisting that other people MUST be suing for no reasons .
But if you had a brain you would realize that sometimes law suits are actually about real discrimination .
Like this one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow, so full of hate.
You see there are these things called BRAILLE TEXTBOOKS.
But when the school starts pushing kindle (with real cost savings for sighted people), and at the same time refuses to use a DIFFERENT READER that has TEXT TO VOICE, then YES the blind people got a case.
This is not about the school offering an ebook reader.
It is about the school PUSHING an ebook reader that does NOT have the same capacities that other existing ebook readers do have.
Yeah, I know you are full of your self and insisting that other people MUST be suing for no reasons.
But if you had a brain you would realize that sometimes law suits are actually about real discrimination.
Like this one.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758108</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758740</id>
	<title>Re:stupidity at its best</title>
	<author>maxume</author>
	<datestamp>1263388320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is no body shape requirement to enter the qualifying events for the Olympics, just performance standards.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is no body shape requirement to enter the qualifying events for the Olympics , just performance standards .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is no body shape requirement to enter the qualifying events for the Olympics, just performance standards.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759494</id>
	<title>Re:Take away everyones eyes!</title>
	<author>evil\_aar0n</author>
	<datestamp>1263392160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are they \_pushing\_ it or \_requiring\_ it?  If they simply recommend it, then what's the problem?  I'm free to use another device, if I prefer.  Of course, it has to be available, but I still don't see a legal responsibility for simply recommending one device over another.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are they \ _pushing \ _ it or \ _requiring \ _ it ?
If they simply recommend it , then what 's the problem ?
I 'm free to use another device , if I prefer .
Of course , it has to be available , but I still do n't see a legal responsibility for simply recommending one device over another .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are they \_pushing\_ it or \_requiring\_ it?
If they simply recommend it, then what's the problem?
I'm free to use another device, if I prefer.
Of course, it has to be available, but I still don't see a legal responsibility for simply recommending one device over another.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758412</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30763930</id>
	<title>Re:Take away everyones eyes!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263483900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What is that stench I smell? The air of entitlement with an undertone of hypocrisy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What is that stench I smell ?
The air of entitlement with an undertone of hypocrisy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What is that stench I smell?
The air of entitlement with an undertone of hypocrisy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758412</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758872</id>
	<title>Why?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263388920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At what point do we draw the line, and say that a MASSIVE MINORITY measuring in at likely under 1 full percent point of the active student population being unable to use a tool does NOT mean the tool should not still be used, and even made mandatory, for the other 99+\%, with an ALTERNATIVE made available for the other small minority?</p><p>Why should X million people suffer because 1 of them is blind?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At what point do we draw the line , and say that a MASSIVE MINORITY measuring in at likely under 1 full percent point of the active student population being unable to use a tool does NOT mean the tool should not still be used , and even made mandatory , for the other 99 + \ % , with an ALTERNATIVE made available for the other small minority ? Why should X million people suffer because 1 of them is blind ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At what point do we draw the line, and say that a MASSIVE MINORITY measuring in at likely under 1 full percent point of the active student population being unable to use a tool does NOT mean the tool should not still be used, and even made mandatory, for the other 99+\%, with an ALTERNATIVE made available for the other small minority?Why should X million people suffer because 1 of them is blind?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758602</id>
	<title>Why even have a Kindle in the classroom?</title>
	<author>FrigBot</author>
	<datestamp>1263387720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't even see the value of having a Kindle in the classroom to begin with. It's like "cable in the classroom" - totally worthless. TV has been shown to have very little educational value, that's why you hardly ever got to watch videos in class as a kid.</p><p>In grade 8 I was in a special class that was half full of kids with these lame Brother laptops (PN-4400 or something). I'm no smarter now than I would have been without it that year. And no more computer-literate either. It's just another technological toy to get in the way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't even see the value of having a Kindle in the classroom to begin with .
It 's like " cable in the classroom " - totally worthless .
TV has been shown to have very little educational value , that 's why you hardly ever got to watch videos in class as a kid.In grade 8 I was in a special class that was half full of kids with these lame Brother laptops ( PN-4400 or something ) .
I 'm no smarter now than I would have been without it that year .
And no more computer-literate either .
It 's just another technological toy to get in the way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't even see the value of having a Kindle in the classroom to begin with.
It's like "cable in the classroom" - totally worthless.
TV has been shown to have very little educational value, that's why you hardly ever got to watch videos in class as a kid.In grade 8 I was in a special class that was half full of kids with these lame Brother laptops (PN-4400 or something).
I'm no smarter now than I would have been without it that year.
And no more computer-literate either.
It's just another technological toy to get in the way.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758972</id>
	<title>Re:stupidity at its best</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263389340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just put it this way: Books, black boards, pencils, and microsoft word also put the blind to disadvantage. The obvious solution is to blind everyone.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just put it this way : Books , black boards , pencils , and microsoft word also put the blind to disadvantage .
The obvious solution is to blind everyone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just put it this way: Books, black boards, pencils, and microsoft word also put the blind to disadvantage.
The obvious solution is to blind everyone.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758228</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm, this seems illogical.</title>
	<author>Planesdragon</author>
	<datestamp>1263386220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Well, books can be typed in braille, the kindle cannot... The issue might be that with a kindle, the e-books are very accessible compared to your standard book (probably cheaper?). Maybe the organization thinks it's an unfair advantage?</p></div><p>1: Sure e-books can be put into "braille".  There are even a plethora of devices that'll do it, or just read teh darn thing aloud.</p><p>2: Braille books are EXPENSIVE.  They have a far smaller audience, need thicker paper, usually can use only one side of the paper... and can't be printed out on the same equipment as everyone else's books.</p><p>Given those two, the association at play should demand GREATER adoption of e-books -- it's a printed book that the blind cannot read, not a properly formatted e-book</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , books can be typed in braille , the kindle can not... The issue might be that with a kindle , the e-books are very accessible compared to your standard book ( probably cheaper ? ) .
Maybe the organization thinks it 's an unfair advantage ? 1 : Sure e-books can be put into " braille " .
There are even a plethora of devices that 'll do it , or just read teh darn thing aloud.2 : Braille books are EXPENSIVE .
They have a far smaller audience , need thicker paper , usually can use only one side of the paper... and ca n't be printed out on the same equipment as everyone else 's books.Given those two , the association at play should demand GREATER adoption of e-books -- it 's a printed book that the blind can not read , not a properly formatted e-book</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, books can be typed in braille, the kindle cannot... The issue might be that with a kindle, the e-books are very accessible compared to your standard book (probably cheaper?).
Maybe the organization thinks it's an unfair advantage?1: Sure e-books can be put into "braille".
There are even a plethora of devices that'll do it, or just read teh darn thing aloud.2: Braille books are EXPENSIVE.
They have a far smaller audience, need thicker paper, usually can use only one side of the paper... and can't be printed out on the same equipment as everyone else's books.Given those two, the association at play should demand GREATER adoption of e-books -- it's a printed book that the blind cannot read, not a properly formatted e-book
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758072</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30760504</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm, this seems illogical.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263400680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nevermind blind people get government disability subsidies, grants, and all other manner of special treatment when it comes to schooling and employment, companies need to take into account the needs of a non-target audience in ALL of their research and development. Video Games, cars, and airplanes should all be made accessible for the sight challenged to operate. Stereos should be adapted for the hearing impaired and jogging shoes should be adapted for amputees. I got it already!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nevermind blind people get government disability subsidies , grants , and all other manner of special treatment when it comes to schooling and employment , companies need to take into account the needs of a non-target audience in ALL of their research and development .
Video Games , cars , and airplanes should all be made accessible for the sight challenged to operate .
Stereos should be adapted for the hearing impaired and jogging shoes should be adapted for amputees .
I got it already !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nevermind blind people get government disability subsidies, grants, and all other manner of special treatment when it comes to schooling and employment, companies need to take into account the needs of a non-target audience in ALL of their research and development.
Video Games, cars, and airplanes should all be made accessible for the sight challenged to operate.
Stereos should be adapted for the hearing impaired and jogging shoes should be adapted for amputees.
I got it already!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759010</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759376</id>
	<title>Re:Take away everyones eyes!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263391380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>But if you had a brain you would realize that sometimes law suits are actually about real discrimination. Like this one.</p></div><p>So you are claiming that the school has chosen the Kindle specifically so that the blind students will be at a disadvantage. Not economic factors, not durability, not logistics, not access to material, but for the sole specific purpose of disenfranchising the "visually impaired". I find that rather hard to swallow, especially since there is zero evidence of such actions.</p><p>The school has chosen a technology solution that fits the needs of 99\% of the student body. The other 1\% can be addressed on a case-by-case basis.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>But when the school starts pushing kindle (with real cost savings for sighted people),</p></div><p>In the case of a public school it's being funded by the taxpayers, including the blind ones. Saving money on traditional hardcopy books saves money for everyone. In the case of a private school it's the same thing, except the duty of the school is to spend the money of the investors (as opposed to taxpayers) in the most responsible fashion. Advocating using an inferior solution for 100\% of the population because 1\% of the population can't use the superior product is sheer stupidity.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>But if you had a brain you would realize that sometimes law suits are actually about real discrimination .
Like this one.So you are claiming that the school has chosen the Kindle specifically so that the blind students will be at a disadvantage .
Not economic factors , not durability , not logistics , not access to material , but for the sole specific purpose of disenfranchising the " visually impaired " .
I find that rather hard to swallow , especially since there is zero evidence of such actions.The school has chosen a technology solution that fits the needs of 99 \ % of the student body .
The other 1 \ % can be addressed on a case-by-case basis.But when the school starts pushing kindle ( with real cost savings for sighted people ) ,In the case of a public school it 's being funded by the taxpayers , including the blind ones .
Saving money on traditional hardcopy books saves money for everyone .
In the case of a private school it 's the same thing , except the duty of the school is to spend the money of the investors ( as opposed to taxpayers ) in the most responsible fashion .
Advocating using an inferior solution for 100 \ % of the population because 1 \ % of the population ca n't use the superior product is sheer stupidity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But if you had a brain you would realize that sometimes law suits are actually about real discrimination.
Like this one.So you are claiming that the school has chosen the Kindle specifically so that the blind students will be at a disadvantage.
Not economic factors, not durability, not logistics, not access to material, but for the sole specific purpose of disenfranchising the "visually impaired".
I find that rather hard to swallow, especially since there is zero evidence of such actions.The school has chosen a technology solution that fits the needs of 99\% of the student body.
The other 1\% can be addressed on a case-by-case basis.But when the school starts pushing kindle (with real cost savings for sighted people),In the case of a public school it's being funded by the taxpayers, including the blind ones.
Saving money on traditional hardcopy books saves money for everyone.
In the case of a private school it's the same thing, except the duty of the school is to spend the money of the investors (as opposed to taxpayers) in the most responsible fashion.
Advocating using an inferior solution for 100\% of the population because 1\% of the population can't use the superior product is sheer stupidity.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758412</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30760606</id>
	<title>The real problem lies with DRM!</title>
	<author>freaker\_TuC</author>
	<datestamp>1263401760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The real problem with this lies with the DRM.</p><p>I've knew two guys who copied their A4 books to A3 format; so they could read their materials anyways.</p><p>Break the DRM and blind people will be offered options to use textbooks as they want. Not like Amazon wants..</p><p>How freaky can it be to have a book, which you can't print or copy a page from, for further reference; in a SCHOOL?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The real problem with this lies with the DRM.I 've knew two guys who copied their A4 books to A3 format ; so they could read their materials anyways.Break the DRM and blind people will be offered options to use textbooks as they want .
Not like Amazon wants..How freaky can it be to have a book , which you ca n't print or copy a page from , for further reference ; in a SCHOOL ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The real problem with this lies with the DRM.I've knew two guys who copied their A4 books to A3 format; so they could read their materials anyways.Break the DRM and blind people will be offered options to use textbooks as they want.
Not like Amazon wants..How freaky can it be to have a book, which you can't print or copy a page from, for further reference; in a SCHOOL?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30766676</id>
	<title>Newsflash</title>
	<author>ZarathustraDK</author>
	<datestamp>1263493020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Three US universities will stop promoting the use of Amazon.com's Kindle DX e-book reader in classrooms after complaints that the device doesn't give blind students equal access to information.</p></div><p>Being blind is an affliction that's characterized by a lack of certain information. What are they gonna do? Blindfold the other students to make for a more even classroom?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Three US universities will stop promoting the use of Amazon.com 's Kindle DX e-book reader in classrooms after complaints that the device does n't give blind students equal access to information.Being blind is an affliction that 's characterized by a lack of certain information .
What are they gon na do ?
Blindfold the other students to make for a more even classroom ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Three US universities will stop promoting the use of Amazon.com's Kindle DX e-book reader in classrooms after complaints that the device doesn't give blind students equal access to information.Being blind is an affliction that's characterized by a lack of certain information.
What are they gonna do?
Blindfold the other students to make for a more even classroom?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758248</id>
	<title>Re:I don't understand</title>
	<author>bieber</author>
	<datestamp>1263386340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't know about high school, but at both colleges my (blind) girlfriend has been to, the standard is that the student buys the paper textbook, and then the school's disability services department cuts the book up and scans and OCRs it so that they can view the book with a screen-reader.  It's just as cheap as it is for all the other students, and they get the ability to resell the book just like everyone else (in fact, used book buyers apparently prefer books that have been rebound the way disability services at her current school does it).

Of course, ebooks <i>theoretically</i> improve this whole situation a lot by giving you an already (perfectly) digitized copy of the text.  In practice, the DRM that all the publishing companies are so fond of turn what could be a huge win for accessibility into a nightmare.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know about high school , but at both colleges my ( blind ) girlfriend has been to , the standard is that the student buys the paper textbook , and then the school 's disability services department cuts the book up and scans and OCRs it so that they can view the book with a screen-reader .
It 's just as cheap as it is for all the other students , and they get the ability to resell the book just like everyone else ( in fact , used book buyers apparently prefer books that have been rebound the way disability services at her current school does it ) .
Of course , ebooks theoretically improve this whole situation a lot by giving you an already ( perfectly ) digitized copy of the text .
In practice , the DRM that all the publishing companies are so fond of turn what could be a huge win for accessibility into a nightmare .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know about high school, but at both colleges my (blind) girlfriend has been to, the standard is that the student buys the paper textbook, and then the school's disability services department cuts the book up and scans and OCRs it so that they can view the book with a screen-reader.
It's just as cheap as it is for all the other students, and they get the ability to resell the book just like everyone else (in fact, used book buyers apparently prefer books that have been rebound the way disability services at her current school does it).
Of course, ebooks theoretically improve this whole situation a lot by giving you an already (perfectly) digitized copy of the text.
In practice, the DRM that all the publishing companies are so fond of turn what could be a huge win for accessibility into a nightmare.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30757998</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758372</id>
	<title>Re:What!?!?</title>
	<author>bhartman34</author>
	<datestamp>1263386820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, computer science is one of the <i>most</i> accessible curricula.  All the student would really need would be a screen reader, and there are several readily available.
<br> <br>
As for the ADA, Title III of the law applies to all schools, not just public ones.  <a href="http://www.disabled-world.com/disability/ada/accommodation.php" title="disabled-world.com">this</a> [disabled-world.com] explains it fairly well.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , computer science is one of the most accessible curricula .
All the student would really need would be a screen reader , and there are several readily available .
As for the ADA , Title III of the law applies to all schools , not just public ones .
this [ disabled-world.com ] explains it fairly well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, computer science is one of the most accessible curricula.
All the student would really need would be a screen reader, and there are several readily available.
As for the ADA, Title III of the law applies to all schools, not just public ones.
this [disabled-world.com] explains it fairly well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758034</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758066</id>
	<title>Have the blind sued the car makers?</title>
	<author>140Mandak262Jamuna</author>
	<datestamp>1263385680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You see none of the cars are designed to be driven by the blind. The blind do not get equal access to the roads from cars. So have they sued the car makers? Or the car makers have been grandfathered out of the ADA?</htmltext>
<tokenext>You see none of the cars are designed to be driven by the blind .
The blind do not get equal access to the roads from cars .
So have they sued the car makers ?
Or the car makers have been grandfathered out of the ADA ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You see none of the cars are designed to be driven by the blind.
The blind do not get equal access to the roads from cars.
So have they sued the car makers?
Or the car makers have been grandfathered out of the ADA?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759318</id>
	<title>not to be flip..</title>
	<author>pottymouth</author>
	<datestamp>1263391140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>to those without sight but how does giving sighted students a better tool hurt the non-sighted ones? Should we maybe stop teaching verbally because some are deaf? Let's really level the playing field and just stop teaching altogether...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>to those without sight but how does giving sighted students a better tool hurt the non-sighted ones ?
Should we maybe stop teaching verbally because some are deaf ?
Let 's really level the playing field and just stop teaching altogether.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>to those without sight but how does giving sighted students a better tool hurt the non-sighted ones?
Should we maybe stop teaching verbally because some are deaf?
Let's really level the playing field and just stop teaching altogether...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758008</id>
	<title>braille kindle?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263385500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>may they could come up with a braille version as well!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>may they could come up with a braille version as well !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>may they could come up with a braille version as well!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758418</id>
	<title>Bullshit</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263387000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>So, I shouldn't be able to have a Kindle because a blind people can't use it??? FUCK THAT! They still have book in braille and on tape? Should I have to give up my car because a blind person can't use it? So, the 99.999\% of students have to go without because of the few who can't use it? Thank you very much!</htmltext>
<tokenext>So , I should n't be able to have a Kindle because a blind people ca n't use it ? ? ?
FUCK THAT !
They still have book in braille and on tape ?
Should I have to give up my car because a blind person ca n't use it ?
So , the 99.999 \ % of students have to go without because of the few who ca n't use it ?
Thank you very much !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, I shouldn't be able to have a Kindle because a blind people can't use it???
FUCK THAT!
They still have book in braille and on tape?
Should I have to give up my car because a blind person can't use it?
So, the 99.999\% of students have to go without because of the few who can't use it?
Thank you very much!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30757968</id>
	<title>Hmm, this seems illogical.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263385320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>How does the kindle discriminate against the blind any more than, say, A BOOK?</htmltext>
<tokenext>How does the kindle discriminate against the blind any more than , say , A BOOK ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How does the kindle discriminate against the blind any more than, say, A BOOK?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30763510</id>
	<title>So that's like saying...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263482040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...cars don't provide equal access to transportation...hmmm, guess we gotta get rid of cars now.  Yay.  What a fucking retarded judgment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...cars do n't provide equal access to transportation...hmmm , guess we got ta get rid of cars now .
Yay. What a fucking retarded judgment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...cars don't provide equal access to transportation...hmmm, guess we gotta get rid of cars now.
Yay.  What a fucking retarded judgment.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759950</id>
	<title>Re:Have the blind sued the car makers?</title>
	<author>kramerd</author>
	<datestamp>1263395640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That would be because driving is a privalege, not a right (unlike education).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That would be because driving is a privalege , not a right ( unlike education ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That would be because driving is a privalege, not a right (unlike education).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758066</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758028</id>
	<title>really?</title>
	<author>xirusmom</author>
	<datestamp>1263385560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As long as they provide an alternative access to the same info, what is the problem?<br>Or are they going to close stairways because some people cannot use them?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As long as they provide an alternative access to the same info , what is the problem ? Or are they going to close stairways because some people can not use them ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As long as they provide an alternative access to the same info, what is the problem?Or are they going to close stairways because some people cannot use them?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758014</id>
	<title>ADA?</title>
	<author>satoshi1</author>
	<datestamp>1263385500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Has anyone else's universities been forcing ADA notices on their class syllabi?  All of my classes have a little ADA Notice at the bottom stating that if one has any known and accepted disabilities they should contact the professor to make any sort of arrangements necessary.  I'm thinking my school got in some sort of crap legal trouble and that's why the message is there.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Has anyone else 's universities been forcing ADA notices on their class syllabi ?
All of my classes have a little ADA Notice at the bottom stating that if one has any known and accepted disabilities they should contact the professor to make any sort of arrangements necessary .
I 'm thinking my school got in some sort of crap legal trouble and that 's why the message is there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Has anyone else's universities been forcing ADA notices on their class syllabi?
All of my classes have a little ADA Notice at the bottom stating that if one has any known and accepted disabilities they should contact the professor to make any sort of arrangements necessary.
I'm thinking my school got in some sort of crap legal trouble and that's why the message is there.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758528</id>
	<title>Re:Have the blind sued the car makers?</title>
	<author>Suki I</author>
	<datestamp>1263387420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You see none of the cars are designed to be driven by the blind. The blind do not get equal access to the roads from cars. So have they sued the car makers? Or the car makers have been grandfathered out of the ADA?</p></div><p>I swear at least 3\% of the drivers I encounter every week are blind.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You see none of the cars are designed to be driven by the blind .
The blind do not get equal access to the roads from cars .
So have they sued the car makers ?
Or the car makers have been grandfathered out of the ADA ? I swear at least 3 \ % of the drivers I encounter every week are blind .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You see none of the cars are designed to be driven by the blind.
The blind do not get equal access to the roads from cars.
So have they sued the car makers?
Or the car makers have been grandfathered out of the ADA?I swear at least 3\% of the drivers I encounter every week are blind.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758066</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30767052</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry trolls, this is a good thing</title>
	<author>Wovel</author>
	<datestamp>1263494280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How do you know they HAD to get sued.  I did not see anything in the article indicating anyone even asked for the functionality.  I agree it is probablly something they should have thought of prior to making a move into the public Universities, but even in the schools it is still a pilot program which was designed to uncover these types of issues.  Why these organizations could not simply say "Hey this feature is needed to make this usable by blind students and more suited for the Universities"  Instead they OMG get the DOJ sue the schools..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How do you know they HAD to get sued .
I did not see anything in the article indicating anyone even asked for the functionality .
I agree it is probablly something they should have thought of prior to making a move into the public Universities , but even in the schools it is still a pilot program which was designed to uncover these types of issues .
Why these organizations could not simply say " Hey this feature is needed to make this usable by blind students and more suited for the Universities " Instead they OMG get the DOJ sue the schools. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How do you know they HAD to get sued.
I did not see anything in the article indicating anyone even asked for the functionality.
I agree it is probablly something they should have thought of prior to making a move into the public Universities, but even in the schools it is still a pilot program which was designed to uncover these types of issues.
Why these organizations could not simply say "Hey this feature is needed to make this usable by blind students and more suited for the Universities"  Instead they OMG get the DOJ sue the schools..</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758672</id>
	<title>WOW</title>
	<author>Monkeedude1212</author>
	<datestamp>1263388020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There were some pretty epic facepalms in all of 2009, but I think THIS one trumps all of them. Off to a good start in 2010 I see.</p><p>Who are these "The National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind"?</p><p>We have the CNIB (Canadian National Institute For The Blind) but they mostly just do fundraising to help research things like Optical implants (which they have successfuly created, I might add). Can just anyone start an minority interest group and complain to the government?</p><p>And I think the DOJ should be impeached for doing this. This is worse then "Crabs in a Bucket" mentality. I mean, anything that was designed to be looked at is essentially "Discriminating against the blind". Movies, Books, Watches, Make up, stylish clothing, traffic ilghts, etc. Is the DOJ saying that all of the United States should impair itself to accomodate the blind? What about Parapalegics? Should they get their arms and legs amputated? And the mute? Sew the mouth shut.</p><p>I'm sure the answer to the economic recession is to make as many US Citizens as useless as possible.</p><p>Imagine what could be gained by giving Kindles to MORE universities instead of less.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There were some pretty epic facepalms in all of 2009 , but I think THIS one trumps all of them .
Off to a good start in 2010 I see.Who are these " The National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind " ? We have the CNIB ( Canadian National Institute For The Blind ) but they mostly just do fundraising to help research things like Optical implants ( which they have successfuly created , I might add ) .
Can just anyone start an minority interest group and complain to the government ? And I think the DOJ should be impeached for doing this .
This is worse then " Crabs in a Bucket " mentality .
I mean , anything that was designed to be looked at is essentially " Discriminating against the blind " .
Movies , Books , Watches , Make up , stylish clothing , traffic ilghts , etc .
Is the DOJ saying that all of the United States should impair itself to accomodate the blind ?
What about Parapalegics ?
Should they get their arms and legs amputated ?
And the mute ?
Sew the mouth shut.I 'm sure the answer to the economic recession is to make as many US Citizens as useless as possible.Imagine what could be gained by giving Kindles to MORE universities instead of less .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There were some pretty epic facepalms in all of 2009, but I think THIS one trumps all of them.
Off to a good start in 2010 I see.Who are these "The National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind"?We have the CNIB (Canadian National Institute For The Blind) but they mostly just do fundraising to help research things like Optical implants (which they have successfuly created, I might add).
Can just anyone start an minority interest group and complain to the government?And I think the DOJ should be impeached for doing this.
This is worse then "Crabs in a Bucket" mentality.
I mean, anything that was designed to be looked at is essentially "Discriminating against the blind".
Movies, Books, Watches, Make up, stylish clothing, traffic ilghts, etc.
Is the DOJ saying that all of the United States should impair itself to accomodate the blind?
What about Parapalegics?
Should they get their arms and legs amputated?
And the mute?
Sew the mouth shut.I'm sure the answer to the economic recession is to make as many US Citizens as useless as possible.Imagine what could be gained by giving Kindles to MORE universities instead of less.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759732</id>
	<title>Re:Let's take this to it's logical extreme</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263393780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Attractive supermodels should be required by law to date just as many overweight computer geeks living in their mom's basement as rich, attractive, professional athletes.</p></div><p>
I am a rich attractive professional athlete, you insensitive clod.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Attractive supermodels should be required by law to date just as many overweight computer geeks living in their mom 's basement as rich , attractive , professional athletes .
I am a rich attractive professional athlete , you insensitive clod .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Attractive supermodels should be required by law to date just as many overweight computer geeks living in their mom's basement as rich, attractive, professional athletes.
I am a rich attractive professional athlete, you insensitive clod.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758048</id>
	<title>your highest achievable standard.,..</title>
	<author>gandhi\_2</author>
	<datestamp>1263385620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...is the capability of the lowest common denominator.</p><p>Braille doesn't provide much access to those with no arms.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...is the capability of the lowest common denominator.Braille does n't provide much access to those with no arms .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...is the capability of the lowest common denominator.Braille doesn't provide much access to those with no arms.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759438</id>
	<title>This is plain silly!</title>
	<author>flajann</author>
	<datestamp>1263391740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Just how much material in colleges come in Braille? Do every textbook the profs might use have a Braille version? Every book in the library? No? I didn't think so.<p>

So, this is about politics (as usual) than anything else.</p><p>

I've got a beef against Kindle in particular, but nothing to do with "accessibility". Amazon has the power to delete content from your Kindle at will, and have done so. I don't like that and therefore I refuse to use the device myself.</p><p>

But if others are OK with Amazon having that kind of power over their content, more power to them.</p><p>

That issue aside, I'd much rather have all of my books in electronic format -- much lighter, can carry far more, and they can get updated if information in them happens to be incorrect, out of date, etc.
</p><p>

Cannot the blind use special laptops to access the same information? Would seem a simple enough solution. Or maybe it's too simple. Gotta do something far more dramatic, like hold everyone else back. Shame on you for being able to see!!!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just how much material in colleges come in Braille ?
Do every textbook the profs might use have a Braille version ?
Every book in the library ?
No ? I did n't think so .
So , this is about politics ( as usual ) than anything else .
I 've got a beef against Kindle in particular , but nothing to do with " accessibility " .
Amazon has the power to delete content from your Kindle at will , and have done so .
I do n't like that and therefore I refuse to use the device myself .
But if others are OK with Amazon having that kind of power over their content , more power to them .
That issue aside , I 'd much rather have all of my books in electronic format -- much lighter , can carry far more , and they can get updated if information in them happens to be incorrect , out of date , etc .
Can not the blind use special laptops to access the same information ?
Would seem a simple enough solution .
Or maybe it 's too simple .
Got ta do something far more dramatic , like hold everyone else back .
Shame on you for being able to see ! ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just how much material in colleges come in Braille?
Do every textbook the profs might use have a Braille version?
Every book in the library?
No? I didn't think so.
So, this is about politics (as usual) than anything else.
I've got a beef against Kindle in particular, but nothing to do with "accessibility".
Amazon has the power to delete content from your Kindle at will, and have done so.
I don't like that and therefore I refuse to use the device myself.
But if others are OK with Amazon having that kind of power over their content, more power to them.
That issue aside, I'd much rather have all of my books in electronic format -- much lighter, can carry far more, and they can get updated if information in them happens to be incorrect, out of date, etc.
Cannot the blind use special laptops to access the same information?
Would seem a simple enough solution.
Or maybe it's too simple.
Gotta do something far more dramatic, like hold everyone else back.
Shame on you for being able to see!!!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30760232</id>
	<title>No Entity Left Behind</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263398400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The solution is to give you special support, not to handicap everyone else. When I was a kid, I was pulled out of class and sent to G.A.T.E. (gifted and talented education) classes until the California PC morons ended that and left me in the corner while the other children learned silly things like how to not eat glue. This is our new No Child Left Behind system, where nobody goes anywhere.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The solution is to give you special support , not to handicap everyone else .
When I was a kid , I was pulled out of class and sent to G.A.T.E .
( gifted and talented education ) classes until the California PC morons ended that and left me in the corner while the other children learned silly things like how to not eat glue .
This is our new No Child Left Behind system , where nobody goes anywhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The solution is to give you special support, not to handicap everyone else.
When I was a kid, I was pulled out of class and sent to G.A.T.E.
(gifted and talented education) classes until the California PC morons ended that and left me in the corner while the other children learned silly things like how to not eat glue.
This is our new No Child Left Behind system, where nobody goes anywhere.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758394</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758272</id>
	<title>Re:ADA?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263386400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's not necessarily because they got into legal trouble.  It might be that they're trying to <i>avoid</i> legal trouble.  Handicapped/disabled students are allowed certain accommodations, depending on their particular problem.  For example, a deaf student might be entitled to a sign language interpreter, a student with a learning disability might be allowed more time on tests, a blind person might be allowed to have a companion dog in class, etc.

I would imagine that any student who would be affected by this would probably know to mention it without having to be reminded, but that might not be the case.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not necessarily because they got into legal trouble .
It might be that they 're trying to avoid legal trouble .
Handicapped/disabled students are allowed certain accommodations , depending on their particular problem .
For example , a deaf student might be entitled to a sign language interpreter , a student with a learning disability might be allowed more time on tests , a blind person might be allowed to have a companion dog in class , etc .
I would imagine that any student who would be affected by this would probably know to mention it without having to be reminded , but that might not be the case .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not necessarily because they got into legal trouble.
It might be that they're trying to avoid legal trouble.
Handicapped/disabled students are allowed certain accommodations, depending on their particular problem.
For example, a deaf student might be entitled to a sign language interpreter, a student with a learning disability might be allowed more time on tests, a blind person might be allowed to have a companion dog in class, etc.
I would imagine that any student who would be affected by this would probably know to mention it without having to be reminded, but that might not be the case.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758014</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758296</id>
	<title>Re:Limitation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263386520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Isn't it in fact discriminatory when a select few get specialized teaching tools, and those outside of the specialized group are excluded from using specialized teaching tools? Blind kids get special tools that seeing kids don't benefit from, but the inverse is unjust? Ooops, forgot the DOJ doesn't use logic in making decisions...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is n't it in fact discriminatory when a select few get specialized teaching tools , and those outside of the specialized group are excluded from using specialized teaching tools ?
Blind kids get special tools that seeing kids do n't benefit from , but the inverse is unjust ?
Ooops , forgot the DOJ does n't use logic in making decisions.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn't it in fact discriminatory when a select few get specialized teaching tools, and those outside of the specialized group are excluded from using specialized teaching tools?
Blind kids get special tools that seeing kids don't benefit from, but the inverse is unjust?
Ooops, forgot the DOJ doesn't use logic in making decisions...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758074</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30765688</id>
	<title>Umm</title>
	<author>Galestar</author>
	<datestamp>1263489840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So does slashdot "hurt blind net admins and developers" because they can't read it too?</htmltext>
<tokenext>So does slashdot " hurt blind net admins and developers " because they ca n't read it too ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So does slashdot "hurt blind net admins and developers" because they can't read it too?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30759458</id>
	<title>Re:your highest achievable standard.,..</title>
	<author>evil\_aar0n</author>
	<datestamp>1263391860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or legs.  "it's just a flesh wound!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or legs .
" it 's just a flesh wound !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or legs.
"it's just a flesh wound!
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758048</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30761416</id>
	<title>the point?</title>
	<author>hydromike2</author>
	<datestamp>1263410760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>i just dont see the point your trying to make</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>i just dont see the point your trying to make</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i just dont see the point your trying to make</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_13_2159231.30758556</id>
	<title>There is a design for a braille e-book that Amazon</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263387540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>should run with. It's available but waiting for some company to pick it up <a href="http://www.yankodesign.com/2009/04/17/braille-e-book/" title="yankodesign.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.yankodesign.com/2009/04/17/braille-e-book/</a> [yankodesign.com]</p><p>I did like this comment on the design though: "I like how the power button lights up, you know, so they can see if it's on or not. A slide type toggle switch would have been more appropriate."</p><p>I have my doubts anyone will see this comment though, as far as I can tell, Slashdot throws away top level comments by "anonymous cowards", which is ridiculous.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>should run with .
It 's available but waiting for some company to pick it up http : //www.yankodesign.com/2009/04/17/braille-e-book/ [ yankodesign.com ] I did like this comment on the design though : " I like how the power button lights up , you know , so they can see if it 's on or not .
A slide type toggle switch would have been more appropriate .
" I have my doubts anyone will see this comment though , as far as I can tell , Slashdot throws away top level comments by " anonymous cowards " , which is ridiculous .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>should run with.
It's available but waiting for some company to pick it up http://www.yankodesign.com/2009/04/17/braille-e-book/ [yankodesign.com]I did like this comment on the design though: "I like how the power button lights up, you know, so they can see if it's on or not.
A slide type toggle switch would have been more appropriate.
"I have my doubts anyone will see this comment though, as far as I can tell, Slashdot throws away top level comments by "anonymous cowards", which is ridiculous.</sentencetext>
</comment>
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