<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_01_12_0651223</id>
	<title>How To Judge Legal Risk When Making a Game Clone?</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1263287220000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>An anonymous reader writes <i>"I'm an indie game developer making a clone of a rather obscure old game. Gameplay in my clone is very similar to the old game, and my clone even has a very similar name because I want to attract fans of the original. The original game has no trademark or software patent associated with it, and my clone isn't infringing on the original's copyright in any way (all the programming and artwork is original), but nevertheless I'm still worried about the possibility of running afoul of a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Look\_and\_feel">look and feel</a> lawsuit or something similar. How do I make sure I'm legally in the clear without hiring an expensive lawyer that my indie developer budget can't afford?"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>An anonymous reader writes " I 'm an indie game developer making a clone of a rather obscure old game .
Gameplay in my clone is very similar to the old game , and my clone even has a very similar name because I want to attract fans of the original .
The original game has no trademark or software patent associated with it , and my clone is n't infringing on the original 's copyright in any way ( all the programming and artwork is original ) , but nevertheless I 'm still worried about the possibility of running afoul of a look and feel lawsuit or something similar .
How do I make sure I 'm legally in the clear without hiring an expensive lawyer that my indie developer budget ca n't afford ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An anonymous reader writes "I'm an indie game developer making a clone of a rather obscure old game.
Gameplay in my clone is very similar to the old game, and my clone even has a very similar name because I want to attract fans of the original.
The original game has no trademark or software patent associated with it, and my clone isn't infringing on the original's copyright in any way (all the programming and artwork is original), but nevertheless I'm still worried about the possibility of running afoul of a look and feel lawsuit or something similar.
How do I make sure I'm legally in the clear without hiring an expensive lawyer that my indie developer budget can't afford?
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30790830</id>
	<title>Re:Risk it</title>
	<author>couchslug</author>
	<datestamp>1263662520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What's sad about \_not\_ being able to copy something as trifling as someone else's game idea?</p><p>Save the lawyer fees and do something original. Copying someone else's idea is limiting yourself.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What 's sad about \ _not \ _ being able to copy something as trifling as someone else 's game idea ? Save the lawyer fees and do something original .
Copying someone else 's idea is limiting yourself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What's sad about \_not\_ being able to copy something as trifling as someone else's game idea?Save the lawyer fees and do something original.
Copying someone else's idea is limiting yourself.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30737168</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30737180</id>
	<title>Re:Sounds high risk</title>
	<author>Bob Cat - NYMPHS</author>
	<datestamp>1263312060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Scrabulous is an EXACT COPY of Scrabble. The board layout, the point multipliers, the letter value and distribution all identical.</p><p>So, do NOT look at it unless you are doing all of those things.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Scrabulous is an EXACT COPY of Scrabble .
The board layout , the point multipliers , the letter value and distribution all identical.So , do NOT look at it unless you are doing all of those things .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Scrabulous is an EXACT COPY of Scrabble.
The board layout, the point multipliers, the letter value and distribution all identical.So, do NOT look at it unless you are doing all of those things.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734710</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30738124</id>
	<title>Check out law school clinics</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263315780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You mentioned you don't want to hire an expensive lawyer...</p><p>I'd recommend contacting any law schools in your area to see if they have any clinics that could provide you with free representation. I'm currently enrolled in an IP clinic at a DC law school, and your project sounds exactly like something myself and other clinic members would love to handle.</p><p>The pros:<br>-Free representation<br>-You should have a clear understanding of where you stand on the issue once their analysis and recommendations are completed.</p><p>The cons:<br>-You'll be dealing with law students interested in the materials, but figuring out a lot of this stuff for the first time.<br>-Your representation will depend on the clinic's schedule and availability. For example, I know our clinic professors have more projects in their queue than students to work on them - so it may take some time.</p><p>Obviously there are a lot more pros/cons than listed, but thought this may serve as a possible solution for you.</p><p>Good luck.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You mentioned you do n't want to hire an expensive lawyer...I 'd recommend contacting any law schools in your area to see if they have any clinics that could provide you with free representation .
I 'm currently enrolled in an IP clinic at a DC law school , and your project sounds exactly like something myself and other clinic members would love to handle.The pros : -Free representation-You should have a clear understanding of where you stand on the issue once their analysis and recommendations are completed.The cons : -You 'll be dealing with law students interested in the materials , but figuring out a lot of this stuff for the first time.-Your representation will depend on the clinic 's schedule and availability .
For example , I know our clinic professors have more projects in their queue than students to work on them - so it may take some time.Obviously there are a lot more pros/cons than listed , but thought this may serve as a possible solution for you.Good luck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You mentioned you don't want to hire an expensive lawyer...I'd recommend contacting any law schools in your area to see if they have any clinics that could provide you with free representation.
I'm currently enrolled in an IP clinic at a DC law school, and your project sounds exactly like something myself and other clinic members would love to handle.The pros:-Free representation-You should have a clear understanding of where you stand on the issue once their analysis and recommendations are completed.The cons:-You'll be dealing with law students interested in the materials, but figuring out a lot of this stuff for the first time.-Your representation will depend on the clinic's schedule and availability.
For example, I know our clinic professors have more projects in their queue than students to work on them - so it may take some time.Obviously there are a lot more pros/cons than listed, but thought this may serve as a possible solution for you.Good luck.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734722</id>
	<title>Find prior art first</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263292440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Find some earlier game that the game you are cloning copied.</p><p>Make yours look more like the earlier (hopefully unprotected) game - when it goes to court<br>most of the attack against you will also be an attack against the attacker.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Find some earlier game that the game you are cloning copied.Make yours look more like the earlier ( hopefully unprotected ) game - when it goes to courtmost of the attack against you will also be an attack against the attacker .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Find some earlier game that the game you are cloning copied.Make yours look more like the earlier (hopefully unprotected) game - when it goes to courtmost of the attack against you will also be an attack against the attacker.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735742</id>
	<title>Question &amp; comments</title>
	<author>Xacid</author>
	<datestamp>1263304020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have to ask...why make a clone of a game that already exists and sounds like is abandonware? It sounds like you could just as easily turn it into a rom and emulate it or something.</p><p>Now, if you're trying to just make a fun game that has the same spirit of one you loved - then I suggest you revamp it. Give it better graphics - give it a new story. Make it a whole new experience for the player - otherwise you're "reinventing the wheel" as they say.</p><p>Anywho - if you're planning on making money on making these games, or hell anything, I'd suggest doing as one of the other posters mentioned - set up a business for this. An LLC or some such - not a sole proprietorship or anything of that nature. You want a limitation on the liability you can incur. With this in place they can sue the business for its assets but not you and your assets (typically - unless there's fraud involved and whatnot). I think this is fair too because then you can establish a wall between money you earned from your endeavours and thus can prove true gains from this if they ever want to ream you for "damages". With this you have quantifiable proof of the limitation of the "damage" the developer incurred. Now this is only in respect to if you decide to push forward with making a copy of this other game. If you do decide to make something new I'd *still* suggest the same course of action. Any time you're taking money from people for work you're doing you absolutely want to limit your liability. To hell if I'm going to lose my house and my livelihood because some jackass says the RAM I installed burned down his house or whatever. Crazier things have happened.</p><p>In short: cover your ass, don't be a dick, educate yourself, and keep up the motivation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have to ask...why make a clone of a game that already exists and sounds like is abandonware ?
It sounds like you could just as easily turn it into a rom and emulate it or something.Now , if you 're trying to just make a fun game that has the same spirit of one you loved - then I suggest you revamp it .
Give it better graphics - give it a new story .
Make it a whole new experience for the player - otherwise you 're " reinventing the wheel " as they say.Anywho - if you 're planning on making money on making these games , or hell anything , I 'd suggest doing as one of the other posters mentioned - set up a business for this .
An LLC or some such - not a sole proprietorship or anything of that nature .
You want a limitation on the liability you can incur .
With this in place they can sue the business for its assets but not you and your assets ( typically - unless there 's fraud involved and whatnot ) .
I think this is fair too because then you can establish a wall between money you earned from your endeavours and thus can prove true gains from this if they ever want to ream you for " damages " .
With this you have quantifiable proof of the limitation of the " damage " the developer incurred .
Now this is only in respect to if you decide to push forward with making a copy of this other game .
If you do decide to make something new I 'd * still * suggest the same course of action .
Any time you 're taking money from people for work you 're doing you absolutely want to limit your liability .
To hell if I 'm going to lose my house and my livelihood because some jackass says the RAM I installed burned down his house or whatever .
Crazier things have happened.In short : cover your ass , do n't be a dick , educate yourself , and keep up the motivation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have to ask...why make a clone of a game that already exists and sounds like is abandonware?
It sounds like you could just as easily turn it into a rom and emulate it or something.Now, if you're trying to just make a fun game that has the same spirit of one you loved - then I suggest you revamp it.
Give it better graphics - give it a new story.
Make it a whole new experience for the player - otherwise you're "reinventing the wheel" as they say.Anywho - if you're planning on making money on making these games, or hell anything, I'd suggest doing as one of the other posters mentioned - set up a business for this.
An LLC or some such - not a sole proprietorship or anything of that nature.
You want a limitation on the liability you can incur.
With this in place they can sue the business for its assets but not you and your assets (typically - unless there's fraud involved and whatnot).
I think this is fair too because then you can establish a wall between money you earned from your endeavours and thus can prove true gains from this if they ever want to ream you for "damages".
With this you have quantifiable proof of the limitation of the "damage" the developer incurred.
Now this is only in respect to if you decide to push forward with making a copy of this other game.
If you do decide to make something new I'd *still* suggest the same course of action.
Any time you're taking money from people for work you're doing you absolutely want to limit your liability.
To hell if I'm going to lose my house and my livelihood because some jackass says the RAM I installed burned down his house or whatever.
Crazier things have happened.In short: cover your ass, don't be a dick, educate yourself, and keep up the motivation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30738788</id>
	<title>Re:Laws have become horribly, horribly complex</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263317940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From the U.S. Copyright Law.</p><p>http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html</p><p>"Copyright does not protect the idea for a game, its name or title, or the method or methods for playing it. Nor does copyright protect any idea, system, method, device, or trademark material involved in developing, merchandising, or playing a game. Once a game has been made public, nothing in the copyright law prevents others from developing another game based on similar principles. Copyright protects only the particular manner of an author&rsquo;s expression in literary, artistic, or musical form."</p><p>Seriously, pay a decent Intellectual Property lawyer the cost of a one-hour visit and lay out your idea. You don't need to retain him.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From the U.S. Copyright Law.http : //www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html " Copyright does not protect the idea for a game , its name or title , or the method or methods for playing it .
Nor does copyright protect any idea , system , method , device , or trademark material involved in developing , merchandising , or playing a game .
Once a game has been made public , nothing in the copyright law prevents others from developing another game based on similar principles .
Copyright protects only the particular manner of an author    s expression in literary , artistic , or musical form .
" Seriously , pay a decent Intellectual Property lawyer the cost of a one-hour visit and lay out your idea .
You do n't need to retain him .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From the U.S. Copyright Law.http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html"Copyright does not protect the idea for a game, its name or title, or the method or methods for playing it.
Nor does copyright protect any idea, system, method, device, or trademark material involved in developing, merchandising, or playing a game.
Once a game has been made public, nothing in the copyright law prevents others from developing another game based on similar principles.
Copyright protects only the particular manner of an author’s expression in literary, artistic, or musical form.
"Seriously, pay a decent Intellectual Property lawyer the cost of a one-hour visit and lay out your idea.
You don't need to retain him.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734618</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30745990</id>
	<title>Re:Let me present a third choice</title>
	<author>mattack2</author>
	<datestamp>1263307980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>If you're dealing with a Scott Adams (of Pirate's adventure fame) type of person, there's probably no problem at all.</p></div></blockquote><p>Though he owns the rights to his games.  The only citation I can find is on <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventure\_International" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventure\_International</a> [wikipedia.org], which says</p><blockquote><div><p>Adventure International went bankrupt in 1985. The copyrights for its games reverted to the bank and eventually back to Scott Adams who released them as shareware.</p></div></blockquote><p>But I thought I remembered that he *bought* the rights back from the bank.  (Maybe they're using a strange use of 'reverted'.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're dealing with a Scott Adams ( of Pirate 's adventure fame ) type of person , there 's probably no problem at all.Though he owns the rights to his games .
The only citation I can find is on http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventure \ _International [ wikipedia.org ] , which saysAdventure International went bankrupt in 1985 .
The copyrights for its games reverted to the bank and eventually back to Scott Adams who released them as shareware.But I thought I remembered that he * bought * the rights back from the bank .
( Maybe they 're using a strange use of 'reverted' .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're dealing with a Scott Adams (of Pirate's adventure fame) type of person, there's probably no problem at all.Though he owns the rights to his games.
The only citation I can find is on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventure\_International [wikipedia.org], which saysAdventure International went bankrupt in 1985.
The copyrights for its games reverted to the bank and eventually back to Scott Adams who released them as shareware.But I thought I remembered that he *bought* the rights back from the bank.
(Maybe they're using a strange use of 'reverted'.
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734892</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30736342</id>
	<title>Re:Laws have become horribly, horribly complex</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263308100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In the US, 179 Members of the House and 57 Senators hold law degrees.<br>Barack Obama is an alumni of Harvard Law School. Of 43 presidents, 25 have been lawyers.<br>No small wonder that it takes a lawyer to get anything done in a society run by lawyers.<br>Funny thing is, I don't know anyone that says they like lawyers... <br>yet we put them in charge of everything... <br>and then we wonder why we get fucked over!</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the US , 179 Members of the House and 57 Senators hold law degrees.Barack Obama is an alumni of Harvard Law School .
Of 43 presidents , 25 have been lawyers.No small wonder that it takes a lawyer to get anything done in a society run by lawyers.Funny thing is , I do n't know anyone that says they like lawyers... yet we put them in charge of everything... and then we wonder why we get fucked over !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the US, 179 Members of the House and 57 Senators hold law degrees.Barack Obama is an alumni of Harvard Law School.
Of 43 presidents, 25 have been lawyers.No small wonder that it takes a lawyer to get anything done in a society run by lawyers.Funny thing is, I don't know anyone that says they like lawyers... yet we put them in charge of everything... and then we wonder why we get fucked over!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734618</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30739136</id>
	<title>important note</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263319140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>just because they don't have a trademark on it doesn't mean they don't have the copyright. by law and by default the original creators own the copyright simply by being able to prove they created it on a certain date. you really only get a trademark if you want to make sure everyone knows you own something. so keep in mind they absolutely own the concept, the question is if they would want to sue you or if anyone is even around to do it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>just because they do n't have a trademark on it does n't mean they do n't have the copyright .
by law and by default the original creators own the copyright simply by being able to prove they created it on a certain date .
you really only get a trademark if you want to make sure everyone knows you own something .
so keep in mind they absolutely own the concept , the question is if they would want to sue you or if anyone is even around to do it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>just because they don't have a trademark on it doesn't mean they don't have the copyright.
by law and by default the original creators own the copyright simply by being able to prove they created it on a certain date.
you really only get a trademark if you want to make sure everyone knows you own something.
so keep in mind they absolutely own the concept, the question is if they would want to sue you or if anyone is even around to do it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30738836</id>
	<title>Re:Stand on your own</title>
	<author>julesh</author>
	<datestamp>1263318060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Get your own name</i></p><p>Agreed. Submitter states that the original author has no trademark, but this is absolute nonsense.  Everybody who sells anything using a specific trading name has a trademark; they might not have registered it but unregistered trademarks are also legally protected in most jurisdictions.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Get your own nameAgreed .
Submitter states that the original author has no trademark , but this is absolute nonsense .
Everybody who sells anything using a specific trading name has a trademark ; they might not have registered it but unregistered trademarks are also legally protected in most jurisdictions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get your own nameAgreed.
Submitter states that the original author has no trademark, but this is absolute nonsense.
Everybody who sells anything using a specific trading name has a trademark; they might not have registered it but unregistered trademarks are also legally protected in most jurisdictions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734864</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734674</id>
	<title>*sigh* how about having an original idea?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263291900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And if you can't manage that, please fuck off to database development. Gaming has enough me-too ripoffs as it is thanks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And if you ca n't manage that , please fuck off to database development .
Gaming has enough me-too ripoffs as it is thanks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And if you can't manage that, please fuck off to database development.
Gaming has enough me-too ripoffs as it is thanks.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735804</id>
	<title>hire a cheap lawyer?</title>
	<author>vlm</author>
	<datestamp>1263304500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>How do I make sure I'm legally in the clear without hiring an expensive lawyer that my indie developer budget can't afford?</p></div><p>Easy, hire an inexperienced cheap lawyer?  Its better than nothing.  Its like saying, "I need to hire a C++ developer, but I can't afford Bjarne Stroustrup, so what should I do?"</p><p>Also, everyone starts at the bottom somewhere.  A young ambitious lawyer whom wants to be the future corporate counsel for Microsoft might very well work for you for free to stuff his/her resume.  Hint, they're going to want a spiffy job title.</p><p>So, find a fan of your game whom happens to be a young lawyer whom would like to gain a lot of experience quickly...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How do I make sure I 'm legally in the clear without hiring an expensive lawyer that my indie developer budget ca n't afford ? Easy , hire an inexperienced cheap lawyer ?
Its better than nothing .
Its like saying , " I need to hire a C + + developer , but I ca n't afford Bjarne Stroustrup , so what should I do ?
" Also , everyone starts at the bottom somewhere .
A young ambitious lawyer whom wants to be the future corporate counsel for Microsoft might very well work for you for free to stuff his/her resume .
Hint , they 're going to want a spiffy job title.So , find a fan of your game whom happens to be a young lawyer whom would like to gain a lot of experience quickly.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How do I make sure I'm legally in the clear without hiring an expensive lawyer that my indie developer budget can't afford?Easy, hire an inexperienced cheap lawyer?
Its better than nothing.
Its like saying, "I need to hire a C++ developer, but I can't afford Bjarne Stroustrup, so what should I do?
"Also, everyone starts at the bottom somewhere.
A young ambitious lawyer whom wants to be the future corporate counsel for Microsoft might very well work for you for free to stuff his/her resume.
Hint, they're going to want a spiffy job title.So, find a fan of your game whom happens to be a young lawyer whom would like to gain a lot of experience quickly...
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30738894</id>
	<title>Re:Risk it</title>
	<author>julesh</author>
	<datestamp>1263318300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Did you just type "obscure game" into the USPTO's web site?</i></p><p><i>If I type each of the companies that developed and published the game into the "Assignee Name" field and nothing on the list is relevant, is that enough?</i></p><p>No.  The patent might be held by an individual author rather than company involved.  The company may have licensed a preexisting patent that the game would have infringed upon otherwise.</p><p>OTOH, relatively few games are actually covered by patents, so this is irrelevant.</p><p>As for trademarks, and as I've pointed out elsewhere, the fact that none are registered is irrelevant, you can still be sued.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did you just type " obscure game " into the USPTO 's web site ? If I type each of the companies that developed and published the game into the " Assignee Name " field and nothing on the list is relevant , is that enough ? No .
The patent might be held by an individual author rather than company involved .
The company may have licensed a preexisting patent that the game would have infringed upon otherwise.OTOH , relatively few games are actually covered by patents , so this is irrelevant.As for trademarks , and as I 've pointed out elsewhere , the fact that none are registered is irrelevant , you can still be sued .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did you just type "obscure game" into the USPTO's web site?If I type each of the companies that developed and published the game into the "Assignee Name" field and nothing on the list is relevant, is that enough?No.
The patent might be held by an individual author rather than company involved.
The company may have licensed a preexisting patent that the game would have infringed upon otherwise.OTOH, relatively few games are actually covered by patents, so this is irrelevant.As for trademarks, and as I've pointed out elsewhere, the fact that none are registered is irrelevant, you can still be sued.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735640</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734678</id>
	<title>Change the name</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263291960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>People will still find it, and if the game is any competent it should be a relevant reference on its wikipedia page (of the type "a similar modern game" rather than "NN set out to make a clone". It would also avoid any problems related to trademark.</p><p>IANAL, but it seems that "look and feel" lawsuits are very rare or there would be more relevant/recent examples.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People will still find it , and if the game is any competent it should be a relevant reference on its wikipedia page ( of the type " a similar modern game " rather than " NN set out to make a clone " .
It would also avoid any problems related to trademark.IANAL , but it seems that " look and feel " lawsuits are very rare or there would be more relevant/recent examples .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People will still find it, and if the game is any competent it should be a relevant reference on its wikipedia page (of the type "a similar modern game" rather than "NN set out to make a clone".
It would also avoid any problems related to trademark.IANAL, but it seems that "look and feel" lawsuits are very rare or there would be more relevant/recent examples.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734768</id>
	<title>Re:You can't</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263293040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not really, as long as you don't turn any real profit, or any profit at all, no one will notice. When you do start to make some money you will get in trouble regardless of how original your game is or isn't. Best way in my opinion is to stay away from US markets.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not really , as long as you do n't turn any real profit , or any profit at all , no one will notice .
When you do start to make some money you will get in trouble regardless of how original your game is or is n't .
Best way in my opinion is to stay away from US markets .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not really, as long as you don't turn any real profit, or any profit at all, no one will notice.
When you do start to make some money you will get in trouble regardless of how original your game is or isn't.
Best way in my opinion is to stay away from US markets.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734650</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735002</id>
	<title>Re:I will watch this thread like a hawk.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263296220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So just exactly how is your game anything at all like EotB?.. It sounds like pretty much a generic RPG, and far more similar to the Baldurs gate or Icewind Dale series than Eye of the Beholder series.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So just exactly how is your game anything at all like EotB ? . .
It sounds like pretty much a generic RPG , and far more similar to the Baldurs gate or Icewind Dale series than Eye of the Beholder series .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So just exactly how is your game anything at all like EotB?..
It sounds like pretty much a generic RPG, and far more similar to the Baldurs gate or Icewind Dale series than Eye of the Beholder series.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734920</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30737570</id>
	<title>Generally speaking</title>
	<author>Taylor123456789</author>
	<datestamp>1263313620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a lawyer, I can say that there is no protection for the "look and feel" of software.  Lotus lost the precedent case against Microsoft for the "look and feel" of Excel.</p><p>Generally speaking, there is copyright protection for the game code.  Since you are not using original code, you should not have a problem there.</p><p>Trademark protection can be for names and likenesses.  If the name of your game or the characters of your game are too similar, you may have a trademark violation.  However, you can do a trademark search online to see if they are registered (which is required before they can sue you).</p><p>The other trademark violation is if the 2 products are confusingly similar.  A disclaimer in the About section stating the games are separate may help you there.</p><p>Lastly, you will only have to worry if you start making a ton of money.  That is when these types of cases come out of the woodwork.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a lawyer , I can say that there is no protection for the " look and feel " of software .
Lotus lost the precedent case against Microsoft for the " look and feel " of Excel.Generally speaking , there is copyright protection for the game code .
Since you are not using original code , you should not have a problem there.Trademark protection can be for names and likenesses .
If the name of your game or the characters of your game are too similar , you may have a trademark violation .
However , you can do a trademark search online to see if they are registered ( which is required before they can sue you ) .The other trademark violation is if the 2 products are confusingly similar .
A disclaimer in the About section stating the games are separate may help you there.Lastly , you will only have to worry if you start making a ton of money .
That is when these types of cases come out of the woodwork .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a lawyer, I can say that there is no protection for the "look and feel" of software.
Lotus lost the precedent case against Microsoft for the "look and feel" of Excel.Generally speaking, there is copyright protection for the game code.
Since you are not using original code, you should not have a problem there.Trademark protection can be for names and likenesses.
If the name of your game or the characters of your game are too similar, you may have a trademark violation.
However, you can do a trademark search online to see if they are registered (which is required before they can sue you).The other trademark violation is if the 2 products are confusingly similar.
A disclaimer in the About section stating the games are separate may help you there.Lastly, you will only have to worry if you start making a ton of money.
That is when these types of cases come out of the woodwork.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30737370</id>
	<title>Darklands</title>
	<author>Meneguzzi</author>
	<datestamp>1263312780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Please tell me you are cloning Darklands. Ok, it's not rather obscure but I loved that game so much!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Please tell me you are cloning Darklands .
Ok , it 's not rather obscure but I loved that game so much !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Please tell me you are cloning Darklands.
Ok, it's not rather obscure but I loved that game so much!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734744</id>
	<title>Re:You can't</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263292920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Anybody who asks in public "Hey, how can I best fuck with IP law regarding this particular product?" pretty much gets whatever he or she deserves, IMO.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anybody who asks in public " Hey , how can I best fuck with IP law regarding this particular product ?
" pretty much gets whatever he or she deserves , IMO .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anybody who asks in public "Hey, how can I best fuck with IP law regarding this particular product?
" pretty much gets whatever he or she deserves, IMO.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734650</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734920</id>
	<title>I will watch this thread like a hawk.</title>
	<author>Sasayaki</author>
	<datestamp>1263295020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My eye is now firmly fixed on this thread.</p><p>I am doing something *similar* to the OP, an iPhone-and-Android-and-PCs semi-remake of an old classic ('Eye of the Beholder' for anyone who's curious), although my project has a few substantial differences:</p><p>My game...</p><p>-<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. is substantially higher resolution and visually very pretty (IMHO).<br>-<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. 's name is completely different (Tale of Vamadon), takes place in an entirely original campaign world, and features an entirely different and original storyline.<br>-<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. has complicated, Baldur's Gate II-style NPCs and dialogue choices rather than the simple hack-and-slash of its predecessor.<br>-<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. engine has a large number of enhancements; items can now be inspected, with each having a description, lore behind it, information behind game mechanics, etc.<br>-<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. has a built-in 'map' function.<br>-<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. has (near) full v3.5 ruleset compatibility (although we may move to Pathfinder if its licence allows free use in games)<br>-<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. only lets you generate a 'main' character; all other NPCs are picked up either at the beginning of the game or in the game world, with each having their own personality, backstory, motivations, unique races, etc.<br>-<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. has dozens of endings all depending on what your character says and does during the game.<br>-<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. features many cutscenes and other such graphical enhancements.<br>-<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. has currency, a town, a store where you can buy and sell looted equipment, get optional quests, etc.</p><p>In my humble opinion it's about as much a "clone" of Eye of the Beholder as Halo is of Half-Life. That is to say, the only adjectives it has in common with the 'original' are 'First Person Perspective RPG with D&amp;D Rules'. Is that enough to make me 'safe'? Thoughts?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My eye is now firmly fixed on this thread.I am doing something * similar * to the OP , an iPhone-and-Android-and-PCs semi-remake of an old classic ( 'Eye of the Beholder ' for anyone who 's curious ) , although my project has a few substantial differences : My game...- .. is substantially higher resolution and visually very pretty ( IMHO ) .- .. 's name is completely different ( Tale of Vamadon ) , takes place in an entirely original campaign world , and features an entirely different and original storyline.- .. has complicated , Baldur 's Gate II-style NPCs and dialogue choices rather than the simple hack-and-slash of its predecessor.- .. engine has a large number of enhancements ; items can now be inspected , with each having a description , lore behind it , information behind game mechanics , etc.- .. has a built-in 'map ' function.- .. has ( near ) full v3.5 ruleset compatibility ( although we may move to Pathfinder if its licence allows free use in games ) - .. only lets you generate a 'main ' character ; all other NPCs are picked up either at the beginning of the game or in the game world , with each having their own personality , backstory , motivations , unique races , etc.- .. has dozens of endings all depending on what your character says and does during the game.- .. features many cutscenes and other such graphical enhancements.- .. has currency , a town , a store where you can buy and sell looted equipment , get optional quests , etc.In my humble opinion it 's about as much a " clone " of Eye of the Beholder as Halo is of Half-Life .
That is to say , the only adjectives it has in common with the 'original ' are 'First Person Perspective RPG with D&amp;D Rules' .
Is that enough to make me 'safe ' ?
Thoughts ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My eye is now firmly fixed on this thread.I am doing something *similar* to the OP, an iPhone-and-Android-and-PCs semi-remake of an old classic ('Eye of the Beholder' for anyone who's curious), although my project has a few substantial differences:My game...- .. is substantially higher resolution and visually very pretty (IMHO).- .. 's name is completely different (Tale of Vamadon), takes place in an entirely original campaign world, and features an entirely different and original storyline.- .. has complicated, Baldur's Gate II-style NPCs and dialogue choices rather than the simple hack-and-slash of its predecessor.- .. engine has a large number of enhancements; items can now be inspected, with each having a description, lore behind it, information behind game mechanics, etc.- .. has a built-in 'map' function.- .. has (near) full v3.5 ruleset compatibility (although we may move to Pathfinder if its licence allows free use in games)- .. only lets you generate a 'main' character; all other NPCs are picked up either at the beginning of the game or in the game world, with each having their own personality, backstory, motivations, unique races, etc.- .. has dozens of endings all depending on what your character says and does during the game.- .. features many cutscenes and other such graphical enhancements.- .. has currency, a town, a store where you can buy and sell looted equipment, get optional quests, etc.In my humble opinion it's about as much a "clone" of Eye of the Beholder as Halo is of Half-Life.
That is to say, the only adjectives it has in common with the 'original' are 'First Person Perspective RPG with D&amp;D Rules'.
Is that enough to make me 'safe'?
Thoughts?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735150</id>
	<title>simplify your situation ..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263297900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sure - you could spend thousands of USD on lawyers in order to attempt to mitigate the legal risks you're facing, but there's just no way around the fact that you'll always be facing the risk of having to spend thousands of USD's in a court of law, fighting lawyers who eat people like you for breakfast.</p><p>Your problem is that you're currently in a jurisdiction which exposes you to this type of litigation.<br>What you have to do is to change the jurisdiction under which your business operates.<br>You do this by making sure that the ownership of the software is not held by a legal entity in your jurisdiction.<br>You need to set up something like the following:<br>- A trust/foundation or insurance company in a suitable jurisdiction, that in turn owns the shares of:<br>- an offshore company, that owns the (rights to the) software and also owns:<br>- a representative office in the US (your employer)</p><p>You must not be a beneficial owner of the offshore entity, but rather an employee of the US rep-office.</p><p>Some of the benefits of this setup are:<br>1. If someone wants to sue - they'll have to approach the offshore entity, in that jurisdiction (according to the laws of the jurisdiction where the offshore company is incorporated).<br>2. The offshore company will lease out the license to the software, to the us based organisation. This means that you can avoid one of the highest corporate tax-rates in the world (ie: the US corporate tax) by bringing down the annual profits to be taxed using the licensing fees charged by the offshore company).<br>3. You will not be personally liable, should you lose a lawsuit in the US, as you are not the beneficiary/owner of the company or any of its assets. The assets accumulated abroad will be owned by an entity that is disconnected from your personal finances. Ie: just because some happy-to-sue a55hole decides to go after you, causing you to go into personal bancrupcy, your children's college fund will not be threatened/touched.</p><p>As soon as a litigant sees that you have this type of setup - they will find someone else to go after, as they are keenly aware of the costs they would incur just to initiate a court case that would, most likely, be thrown out of court immediately (in many jurisdictions, the claimant will have to put up a bond that covers the estimated legal fees up front - they will lose this money should they lose the claim).</p><p>In my experience, a setup like the one described above will cost something like 4000 USD to setup and operate for the first year, then 2000 USD to keep up annually. If you're a US citizen the price will be higher.<br>Go here to put out a tender for someone to fix your situation: lowtax.net<br>Post a summary of your situation under the Comments section and watch various accounting firms bid for your business.<br>Be aware that the companies offering you their assistance in this matter will judge your attractivity as a customer as follows:<br>- A big minus is that you're a US citizen<br>- A big plus is that you're doing software (game) development and not online gambling, online banking, online porn or any other high-risk venture</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure - you could spend thousands of USD on lawyers in order to attempt to mitigate the legal risks you 're facing , but there 's just no way around the fact that you 'll always be facing the risk of having to spend thousands of USD 's in a court of law , fighting lawyers who eat people like you for breakfast.Your problem is that you 're currently in a jurisdiction which exposes you to this type of litigation.What you have to do is to change the jurisdiction under which your business operates.You do this by making sure that the ownership of the software is not held by a legal entity in your jurisdiction.You need to set up something like the following : - A trust/foundation or insurance company in a suitable jurisdiction , that in turn owns the shares of : - an offshore company , that owns the ( rights to the ) software and also owns : - a representative office in the US ( your employer ) You must not be a beneficial owner of the offshore entity , but rather an employee of the US rep-office.Some of the benefits of this setup are : 1 .
If someone wants to sue - they 'll have to approach the offshore entity , in that jurisdiction ( according to the laws of the jurisdiction where the offshore company is incorporated ) .2 .
The offshore company will lease out the license to the software , to the us based organisation .
This means that you can avoid one of the highest corporate tax-rates in the world ( ie : the US corporate tax ) by bringing down the annual profits to be taxed using the licensing fees charged by the offshore company ) .3 .
You will not be personally liable , should you lose a lawsuit in the US , as you are not the beneficiary/owner of the company or any of its assets .
The assets accumulated abroad will be owned by an entity that is disconnected from your personal finances .
Ie : just because some happy-to-sue a55hole decides to go after you , causing you to go into personal bancrupcy , your children 's college fund will not be threatened/touched.As soon as a litigant sees that you have this type of setup - they will find someone else to go after , as they are keenly aware of the costs they would incur just to initiate a court case that would , most likely , be thrown out of court immediately ( in many jurisdictions , the claimant will have to put up a bond that covers the estimated legal fees up front - they will lose this money should they lose the claim ) .In my experience , a setup like the one described above will cost something like 4000 USD to setup and operate for the first year , then 2000 USD to keep up annually .
If you 're a US citizen the price will be higher.Go here to put out a tender for someone to fix your situation : lowtax.netPost a summary of your situation under the Comments section and watch various accounting firms bid for your business.Be aware that the companies offering you their assistance in this matter will judge your attractivity as a customer as follows : - A big minus is that you 're a US citizen- A big plus is that you 're doing software ( game ) development and not online gambling , online banking , online porn or any other high-risk venture</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure - you could spend thousands of USD on lawyers in order to attempt to mitigate the legal risks you're facing, but there's just no way around the fact that you'll always be facing the risk of having to spend thousands of USD's in a court of law, fighting lawyers who eat people like you for breakfast.Your problem is that you're currently in a jurisdiction which exposes you to this type of litigation.What you have to do is to change the jurisdiction under which your business operates.You do this by making sure that the ownership of the software is not held by a legal entity in your jurisdiction.You need to set up something like the following:- A trust/foundation or insurance company in a suitable jurisdiction, that in turn owns the shares of:- an offshore company, that owns the (rights to the) software and also owns:- a representative office in the US (your employer)You must not be a beneficial owner of the offshore entity, but rather an employee of the US rep-office.Some of the benefits of this setup are:1.
If someone wants to sue - they'll have to approach the offshore entity, in that jurisdiction (according to the laws of the jurisdiction where the offshore company is incorporated).2.
The offshore company will lease out the license to the software, to the us based organisation.
This means that you can avoid one of the highest corporate tax-rates in the world (ie: the US corporate tax) by bringing down the annual profits to be taxed using the licensing fees charged by the offshore company).3.
You will not be personally liable, should you lose a lawsuit in the US, as you are not the beneficiary/owner of the company or any of its assets.
The assets accumulated abroad will be owned by an entity that is disconnected from your personal finances.
Ie: just because some happy-to-sue a55hole decides to go after you, causing you to go into personal bancrupcy, your children's college fund will not be threatened/touched.As soon as a litigant sees that you have this type of setup - they will find someone else to go after, as they are keenly aware of the costs they would incur just to initiate a court case that would, most likely, be thrown out of court immediately (in many jurisdictions, the claimant will have to put up a bond that covers the estimated legal fees up front - they will lose this money should they lose the claim).In my experience, a setup like the one described above will cost something like 4000 USD to setup and operate for the first year, then 2000 USD to keep up annually.
If you're a US citizen the price will be higher.Go here to put out a tender for someone to fix your situation: lowtax.netPost a summary of your situation under the Comments section and watch various accounting firms bid for your business.Be aware that the companies offering you their assistance in this matter will judge your attractivity as a customer as follows:- A big minus is that you're a US citizen- A big plus is that you're doing software (game) development and not online gambling, online banking, online porn or any other high-risk venture</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734660</id>
	<title>The legal system is unfair</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263291720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just making a clone can tie you up in court unnecessarily, such as <a href="http://www.politechbot.com/p-03194.html" title="politechbot.com">MySQL AB v. NuSphere</a> [politechbot.com], where a non-GPL clone of the mysql client API is being attacked unfairly. There are many instances where a similarities to another software package of something has caused horrible legal battles that do nothing but make the lawyers rich and make programmers find new careers in disgust.</p><p>These days it seems dangerous to program without becoming incorporated or doing it under the umbrella of a big company. Who wants to lose their house because some company dragged you through court or demanded an absurd settlement for "damages".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just making a clone can tie you up in court unnecessarily , such as MySQL AB v. NuSphere [ politechbot.com ] , where a non-GPL clone of the mysql client API is being attacked unfairly .
There are many instances where a similarities to another software package of something has caused horrible legal battles that do nothing but make the lawyers rich and make programmers find new careers in disgust.These days it seems dangerous to program without becoming incorporated or doing it under the umbrella of a big company .
Who wants to lose their house because some company dragged you through court or demanded an absurd settlement for " damages " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just making a clone can tie you up in court unnecessarily, such as MySQL AB v. NuSphere [politechbot.com], where a non-GPL clone of the mysql client API is being attacked unfairly.
There are many instances where a similarities to another software package of something has caused horrible legal battles that do nothing but make the lawyers rich and make programmers find new careers in disgust.These days it seems dangerous to program without becoming incorporated or doing it under the umbrella of a big company.
Who wants to lose their house because some company dragged you through court or demanded an absurd settlement for "damages".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30736118</id>
	<title>Re:Assassinate the original owners</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263306720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sorry, dude. Copyrights and trademarks are property. Assassinating those owners won't dissolve the copyrights any more than it will make their houses dissolve.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry , dude .
Copyrights and trademarks are property .
Assassinating those owners wo n't dissolve the copyrights any more than it will make their houses dissolve .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry, dude.
Copyrights and trademarks are property.
Assassinating those owners won't dissolve the copyrights any more than it will make their houses dissolve.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734658</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735812</id>
	<title>Re:The real question: WOULD they sue?</title>
	<author>ThomsonsPier</author>
	<datestamp>1263304500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And, of course, "Do I feel lucky?"<br>
<br>
Well, do you?</htmltext>
<tokenext>And , of course , " Do I feel lucky ?
" Well , do you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And, of course, "Do I feel lucky?
"

Well, do you?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734646</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734650</id>
	<title>You can't</title>
	<author>dreamchaser</author>
	<datestamp>1263291600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>How do I make sure I'm legally in the clear without hiring an expensive lawyer that my indie developer budget can't afford?</i></p><p>You can't.  The worst thing you can do is what you're doing; going to a bunch of random armchair lawyers on the Internet.</p><p>If you're that worried, get a lawyer or do a different project.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How do I make sure I 'm legally in the clear without hiring an expensive lawyer that my indie developer budget ca n't afford ? You ca n't .
The worst thing you can do is what you 're doing ; going to a bunch of random armchair lawyers on the Internet.If you 're that worried , get a lawyer or do a different project .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How do I make sure I'm legally in the clear without hiring an expensive lawyer that my indie developer budget can't afford?You can't.
The worst thing you can do is what you're doing; going to a bunch of random armchair lawyers on the Internet.If you're that worried, get a lawyer or do a different project.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734972</id>
	<title>Good luck with that.</title>
	<author>jibjibjib</author>
	<datestamp>1263295680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>How do I make sure I'm legally in the clear without hiring an expensive lawyer</p></div><p>
Aren't "legally in the clear" and "hiring an expensive lawyer" the same thing now?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How do I make sure I 'm legally in the clear without hiring an expensive lawyer Are n't " legally in the clear " and " hiring an expensive lawyer " the same thing now ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How do I make sure I'm legally in the clear without hiring an expensive lawyer
Aren't "legally in the clear" and "hiring an expensive lawyer" the same thing now?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30742330</id>
	<title>Tips, Tricks and a link to my practical guide.</title>
	<author>jonklinger</author>
	<datestamp>1263288660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wrote a <a href="http://2jk.org/english/?p=137" title="2jk.org" rel="nofollow">brief review of copyrights and games</a> [2jk.org] a while ago; but you have to make sure that the following points are taken into consideration:

Whilte the rules of the game cannot be copyrighted, the look and feel, name, code and images can be.

Trademark and Passing off may also be a problem if you're using a registered name or passing off as one.

As a rule, try to be transformative and add additional value. However, you should consult a lawyer. If your lawyer is experienced in the field, it should take him no more than an hour or two to say "go / no-go" for a simple game.

[Decent disclosure, I am an Israel lawyer, and I teach Game Development Law in Beit Berl College, Israel]</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wrote a brief review of copyrights and games [ 2jk.org ] a while ago ; but you have to make sure that the following points are taken into consideration : Whilte the rules of the game can not be copyrighted , the look and feel , name , code and images can be .
Trademark and Passing off may also be a problem if you 're using a registered name or passing off as one .
As a rule , try to be transformative and add additional value .
However , you should consult a lawyer .
If your lawyer is experienced in the field , it should take him no more than an hour or two to say " go / no-go " for a simple game .
[ Decent disclosure , I am an Israel lawyer , and I teach Game Development Law in Beit Berl College , Israel ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wrote a brief review of copyrights and games [2jk.org] a while ago; but you have to make sure that the following points are taken into consideration:

Whilte the rules of the game cannot be copyrighted, the look and feel, name, code and images can be.
Trademark and Passing off may also be a problem if you're using a registered name or passing off as one.
As a rule, try to be transformative and add additional value.
However, you should consult a lawyer.
If your lawyer is experienced in the field, it should take him no more than an hour or two to say "go / no-go" for a simple game.
[Decent disclosure, I am an Israel lawyer, and I teach Game Development Law in Beit Berl College, Israel]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735080</id>
	<title>Clone DNF</title>
	<author>Hognoxious</author>
	<datestamp>1263297180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Clone Duke Nukem Forever<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... not much risk there!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Clone Duke Nukem Forever ... not much risk there !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Clone Duke Nukem Forever ... not much risk there!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734618</id>
	<title>Laws have become horribly, horribly complex</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263291060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>How do I make sure I'm legally in the clear without hiring an expensive lawyer</p></div></blockquote><p>
Laws have become horribly, horribly complex. I'm not sure any of us can do that for anything we do.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How do I make sure I 'm legally in the clear without hiring an expensive lawyer Laws have become horribly , horribly complex .
I 'm not sure any of us can do that for anything we do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How do I make sure I'm legally in the clear without hiring an expensive lawyer
Laws have become horribly, horribly complex.
I'm not sure any of us can do that for anything we do.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30739668</id>
	<title>Develop through Tor.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263321000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Develop it through Tor, or any other anonymizing network. Then it cant be shut down no matter what the law says.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Develop it through Tor , or any other anonymizing network .
Then it cant be shut down no matter what the law says .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Develop it through Tor, or any other anonymizing network.
Then it cant be shut down no matter what the law says.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735638</id>
	<title>Re:The real question: WOULD they sue?</title>
	<author>Z00L00K</author>
	<datestamp>1263303000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And yet another question - do that corporation know that they have the right to that game?</p><p>Not every corporation does have track records that legally entitles them to the copyright of a certain piece of software written some 30 years ago. It may be that during some part of the process those rights were left out or that the purchase only was for the brand name etc.</p><p>Not everyone suing does hold the rights either.</p><p>There are multiple variations on a theme here. But if you do sell a look-alike that does have some modern or modified qualities in it it's hard to claim copyright on it. All adventure games do inherit from the original "The Cave".</p><p>And now it's the internet - so selling games from certain sales locations will make lawsuits trickier. You may even have a business model of free download and then sell services around the game instead.</p><p>Just go the way that will create the most headache for the holders of the rights to the original game for them to figure out if it's worth pursuing and how to do that. Distribute the responsibility for the game and the development of it into different legal entities so that you only have a facade company that takes the hit if something goes down the drain. Facade company owns the rights to the software, but every employee is in another to which all the money goes as "development costs", so if it goes really bad only the facade falls and the application rights may get voided.</p><p>Done right the risks are lowered.</p><p>Just make sure that it will cost more to investigate your businesses than what can be gained from pursuing a case against you and you can relax a bit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And yet another question - do that corporation know that they have the right to that game ? Not every corporation does have track records that legally entitles them to the copyright of a certain piece of software written some 30 years ago .
It may be that during some part of the process those rights were left out or that the purchase only was for the brand name etc.Not everyone suing does hold the rights either.There are multiple variations on a theme here .
But if you do sell a look-alike that does have some modern or modified qualities in it it 's hard to claim copyright on it .
All adventure games do inherit from the original " The Cave " .And now it 's the internet - so selling games from certain sales locations will make lawsuits trickier .
You may even have a business model of free download and then sell services around the game instead.Just go the way that will create the most headache for the holders of the rights to the original game for them to figure out if it 's worth pursuing and how to do that .
Distribute the responsibility for the game and the development of it into different legal entities so that you only have a facade company that takes the hit if something goes down the drain .
Facade company owns the rights to the software , but every employee is in another to which all the money goes as " development costs " , so if it goes really bad only the facade falls and the application rights may get voided.Done right the risks are lowered.Just make sure that it will cost more to investigate your businesses than what can be gained from pursuing a case against you and you can relax a bit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And yet another question - do that corporation know that they have the right to that game?Not every corporation does have track records that legally entitles them to the copyright of a certain piece of software written some 30 years ago.
It may be that during some part of the process those rights were left out or that the purchase only was for the brand name etc.Not everyone suing does hold the rights either.There are multiple variations on a theme here.
But if you do sell a look-alike that does have some modern or modified qualities in it it's hard to claim copyright on it.
All adventure games do inherit from the original "The Cave".And now it's the internet - so selling games from certain sales locations will make lawsuits trickier.
You may even have a business model of free download and then sell services around the game instead.Just go the way that will create the most headache for the holders of the rights to the original game for them to figure out if it's worth pursuing and how to do that.
Distribute the responsibility for the game and the development of it into different legal entities so that you only have a facade company that takes the hit if something goes down the drain.
Facade company owns the rights to the software, but every employee is in another to which all the money goes as "development costs", so if it goes really bad only the facade falls and the application rights may get voided.Done right the risks are lowered.Just make sure that it will cost more to investigate your businesses than what can be gained from pursuing a case against you and you can relax a bit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734646</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734716</id>
	<title>They can only sue you for money that you have</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263292380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So <em>if</em> you ever make any, spend some of it on an accountant(*) and get him to set up two companies: one incorporated in Elbonia that has all the assets, and a shell development company with all the liabilities.  Don't contest any lawsuit, just smile, punt the shell company into bankruptcy, and set up another one.

</p><p>This isn't meant to be flippant; it's a model that works just fine for Hollywood.  Ask any creative type who's ever tried to get any money out of a studio.

</p><p>(*) Accountants are much like lawyers, except that they're cheaper, and they can be harmed with conventional weapons.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So if you ever make any , spend some of it on an accountant ( * ) and get him to set up two companies : one incorporated in Elbonia that has all the assets , and a shell development company with all the liabilities .
Do n't contest any lawsuit , just smile , punt the shell company into bankruptcy , and set up another one .
This is n't meant to be flippant ; it 's a model that works just fine for Hollywood .
Ask any creative type who 's ever tried to get any money out of a studio .
( * ) Accountants are much like lawyers , except that they 're cheaper , and they can be harmed with conventional weapons .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So if you ever make any, spend some of it on an accountant(*) and get him to set up two companies: one incorporated in Elbonia that has all the assets, and a shell development company with all the liabilities.
Don't contest any lawsuit, just smile, punt the shell company into bankruptcy, and set up another one.
This isn't meant to be flippant; it's a model that works just fine for Hollywood.
Ask any creative type who's ever tried to get any money out of a studio.
(*) Accountants are much like lawyers, except that they're cheaper, and they can be harmed with conventional weapons.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735146</id>
	<title>You don't...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263297840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>How do I make sure I'm legally in the clear without hiring an expensive lawyer that my indie developer budget can't afford?</p></div><p>How do I make sure I don't get pregnant while having sex every day without using any form of contraception?</p><p>(Obvious answer: you don't.  If you want to make sure you're legally in the clear, you hire an expensive lawyer.  If you don't want to hire an expensive lawyer, then you live with not being sure you're legally in the clear.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How do I make sure I 'm legally in the clear without hiring an expensive lawyer that my indie developer budget ca n't afford ? How do I make sure I do n't get pregnant while having sex every day without using any form of contraception ?
( Obvious answer : you do n't .
If you want to make sure you 're legally in the clear , you hire an expensive lawyer .
If you do n't want to hire an expensive lawyer , then you live with not being sure you 're legally in the clear .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How do I make sure I'm legally in the clear without hiring an expensive lawyer that my indie developer budget can't afford?How do I make sure I don't get pregnant while having sex every day without using any form of contraception?
(Obvious answer: you don't.
If you want to make sure you're legally in the clear, you hire an expensive lawyer.
If you don't want to hire an expensive lawyer, then you live with not being sure you're legally in the clear.
)
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30736500</id>
	<title>Re:Laws have become horribly, horribly complex</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263309180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>OK, I'm curious. Why Arizona? I'm not from the USA, so maybe I'm missing something there...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>OK , I 'm curious .
Why Arizona ?
I 'm not from the USA , so maybe I 'm missing something there.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OK, I'm curious.
Why Arizona?
I'm not from the USA, so maybe I'm missing something there...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734680</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734766</id>
	<title>A tribute?</title>
	<author>MojoRilla</author>
	<datestamp>1263293040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why not frame it as a tribute instead of a knockoff?  Include a screen in the about section talking about the orignal game and why you loved it.
<br> <br>
Many years ago I was sent a cease and desist from a major board game publisher because I had used their trademark in my shareware games name.  However the game rules were ancient and in the public domain.  I sent them a letter saying I was already changing the name, and never heard back from them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why not frame it as a tribute instead of a knockoff ?
Include a screen in the about section talking about the orignal game and why you loved it .
Many years ago I was sent a cease and desist from a major board game publisher because I had used their trademark in my shareware games name .
However the game rules were ancient and in the public domain .
I sent them a letter saying I was already changing the name , and never heard back from them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why not frame it as a tribute instead of a knockoff?
Include a screen in the about section talking about the orignal game and why you loved it.
Many years ago I was sent a cease and desist from a major board game publisher because I had used their trademark in my shareware games name.
However the game rules were ancient and in the public domain.
I sent them a letter saying I was already changing the name, and never heard back from them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30740962</id>
	<title>Re:Laws have become horribly, horribly complex</title>
	<author>CorporateSuit</author>
	<datestamp>1263325920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Laws have become horribly, horribly complex. I'm not sure any of us can do that for anything we do.</p></div><p>Yes and no.<br> <br>
They've become so horribly complex that it only matters who has the better lawyer -- so there is something you can do.  "But I can't afford having a lawyer!" Oh yes you can!<br> <br>
Find a law office, enter it, ask the lawyer for his card and say, in a single sentence, what you're doing, and then say "If anyone has a problem with what I'm doing, and attempts to sue me, I would like to use you as my attorney.  Can I keep this card and call you my lawyer as the time arises?" -- most will say "Yes" because then they have the promise of a client without any work being done.  Some will say "No" -- but only if they are already overbooked or have watched too many movies.  In cases like that, just go next door, and try again.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Laws have become horribly , horribly complex .
I 'm not sure any of us can do that for anything we do.Yes and no .
They 've become so horribly complex that it only matters who has the better lawyer -- so there is something you can do .
" But I ca n't afford having a lawyer !
" Oh yes you can !
Find a law office , enter it , ask the lawyer for his card and say , in a single sentence , what you 're doing , and then say " If anyone has a problem with what I 'm doing , and attempts to sue me , I would like to use you as my attorney .
Can I keep this card and call you my lawyer as the time arises ?
" -- most will say " Yes " because then they have the promise of a client without any work being done .
Some will say " No " -- but only if they are already overbooked or have watched too many movies .
In cases like that , just go next door , and try again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Laws have become horribly, horribly complex.
I'm not sure any of us can do that for anything we do.Yes and no.
They've become so horribly complex that it only matters who has the better lawyer -- so there is something you can do.
"But I can't afford having a lawyer!
" Oh yes you can!
Find a law office, enter it, ask the lawyer for his card and say, in a single sentence, what you're doing, and then say "If anyone has a problem with what I'm doing, and attempts to sue me, I would like to use you as my attorney.
Can I keep this card and call you my lawyer as the time arises?
" -- most will say "Yes" because then they have the promise of a client without any work being done.
Some will say "No" -- but only if they are already overbooked or have watched too many movies.
In cases like that, just go next door, and try again.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734618</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30760824</id>
	<title>Re:Let me present a third choice</title>
	<author>Swordwright</author>
	<datestamp>1263403800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>d) make a similar game with similar mechanics. open it up to player scenarios and mods. publish a "fan" mod that makes it perform just like the original game. deniability, check. all you are peddling is the platform for the legally questionable niche game mechanics.</htmltext>
<tokenext>d ) make a similar game with similar mechanics .
open it up to player scenarios and mods .
publish a " fan " mod that makes it perform just like the original game .
deniability , check .
all you are peddling is the platform for the legally questionable niche game mechanics .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>d) make a similar game with similar mechanics.
open it up to player scenarios and mods.
publish a "fan" mod that makes it perform just like the original game.
deniability, check.
all you are peddling is the platform for the legally questionable niche game mechanics.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30737280</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30752258</id>
	<title>Try getting permission</title>
	<author>Restil</author>
	<datestamp>1263405120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you haven't started working on it yet, figure out who owns the IP on the old game, track them down, and get permission.  IN WRITING.  If you can get it, you're home free and can safely not concern yourself with future legal challenges on the matter.  If you don't get permission, then find some other idea to steal... or come up with your own.  However, if you've already completed the game and you're just trying to find the safest way to release it without getting sued...   well... good luck.</p><p>-Restil</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you have n't started working on it yet , figure out who owns the IP on the old game , track them down , and get permission .
IN WRITING .
If you can get it , you 're home free and can safely not concern yourself with future legal challenges on the matter .
If you do n't get permission , then find some other idea to steal... or come up with your own .
However , if you 've already completed the game and you 're just trying to find the safest way to release it without getting sued... well... good luck.-Restil</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you haven't started working on it yet, figure out who owns the IP on the old game, track them down, and get permission.
IN WRITING.
If you can get it, you're home free and can safely not concern yourself with future legal challenges on the matter.
If you don't get permission, then find some other idea to steal... or come up with your own.
However, if you've already completed the game and you're just trying to find the safest way to release it without getting sued...   well... good luck.-Restil</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30748398</id>
	<title>Re:The real question: WOULD they sue?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263378420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Surely a lawyer shouldn't be the one to decide on giving permission, I should hope they'd pass it on to the appropriate person and merely advise.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Surely a lawyer should n't be the one to decide on giving permission , I should hope they 'd pass it on to the appropriate person and merely advise .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Surely a lawyer shouldn't be the one to decide on giving permission, I should hope they'd pass it on to the appropriate person and merely advise.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30736816</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30737168</id>
	<title>Re:Risk it</title>
	<author>Icarium</author>
	<datestamp>1263311940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If you have a question for a lawyer and you can't afford one, stop what you're doing.</p></div><p>That has to be the saddest statement I've read in a long time.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you have a question for a lawyer and you ca n't afford one , stop what you 're doing.That has to be the saddest statement I 've read in a long time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you have a question for a lawyer and you can't afford one, stop what you're doing.That has to be the saddest statement I've read in a long time.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735108</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734892</id>
	<title>Let me present a third choice</title>
	<author>mrjb</author>
	<datestamp>1263294660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>a) pay a lawyer, or <br>
b) ignore the legal consequences and only deal with them if you get sued.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
It takes being a bit cheeky, but you can also <br>
<br>
c) contact the author/publisher of the old game and get (in writing) that they have no problems whatsoever with you releasing the clone.<br>
<br>
If you're dealing with a company like Atari (who? yes, they still exist!) or anything Disney, you are probably out of luck. If you're dealing with a Scott Adams (of Pirate's adventure fame) type of person, there's probably no problem at all. As you say the game is rather obscure, so chances are they will have no problem with you releasing a remake, and they won't sue. Perhaps they can even benefit from your efforts, if you're willing to link to the original game!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>a ) pay a lawyer , or b ) ignore the legal consequences and only deal with them if you get sued .
It takes being a bit cheeky , but you can also c ) contact the author/publisher of the old game and get ( in writing ) that they have no problems whatsoever with you releasing the clone .
If you 're dealing with a company like Atari ( who ?
yes , they still exist !
) or anything Disney , you are probably out of luck .
If you 're dealing with a Scott Adams ( of Pirate 's adventure fame ) type of person , there 's probably no problem at all .
As you say the game is rather obscure , so chances are they will have no problem with you releasing a remake , and they wo n't sue .
Perhaps they can even benefit from your efforts , if you 're willing to link to the original game !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>a) pay a lawyer, or 
b) ignore the legal consequences and only deal with them if you get sued.
It takes being a bit cheeky, but you can also 

c) contact the author/publisher of the old game and get (in writing) that they have no problems whatsoever with you releasing the clone.
If you're dealing with a company like Atari (who?
yes, they still exist!
) or anything Disney, you are probably out of luck.
If you're dealing with a Scott Adams (of Pirate's adventure fame) type of person, there's probably no problem at all.
As you say the game is rather obscure, so chances are they will have no problem with you releasing a remake, and they won't sue.
Perhaps they can even benefit from your efforts, if you're willing to link to the original game!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734680</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30749466</id>
	<title>Re:Let me present a third choice</title>
	<author>snowgirl</author>
	<datestamp>1263392520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><blockquote><div><p>a) pay a lawyer, or</p><p>b) ignore the legal consequences and only deal with them if you get sued.</p></div></blockquote><p>It takes being a bit cheeky, but you can also</p><p>c) contact the author/publisher of the old game and get (in writing) that they have no problems whatsoever with you releasing the clone.</p><p>If you're dealing with a company like Atari (who? yes, they still exist!) or anything Disney, you are probably out of luck. If you're dealing with a Scott Adams (of Pirate's adventure fame) type of person, there's probably no problem at all. As you say the game is rather obscure, so chances are they will have no problem with you releasing a remake, and they won't sue. Perhaps they can even benefit from your efforts, if you're willing to link to the original game!</p></div><p>Contacting the author/publisher of the old game (more accurately, the rights holder to the game) is covered under "pay for a lawyer".</p><p>If you go to the rights holder and work out anything in writing, it's entirely possible, that it's not even valid, or doesn't cover you appropriately, or whatever.</p><p>Or, alternatively, it's covered by option b... go to them, talk to them, get something in writing that may or may not be worth a damn, and when it goes big and they want a bigger slice, they sue you for breach of contract over some nitpick issue that you didn't think was a big deal.</p><p>If you want to know your legal liability ask a lawyer, do NOT just go off asking the potentially opposing partner to a suit for permission... you don't know what to correctly get, and you don't know what it's worth.</p><p>Example 1: you get consent from the trademark holder to have a name similar to the original, but then the person who got the patent rights comes after you for violating a patent that was incorporated into the game.</p><p>Example 2: you go to the original rights holder, and they say it's all cool, and then when you release the game, a third-party sues you for patent infringement, because the original rights holder never had the ability to grant you license to use a patent that they licensed.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... as stated, the law is a complex rat's nest, and there's a reason why people have to go to school to learn it, and most states prevent people from practicing law outside of very narrow guidelines.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>a ) pay a lawyer , orb ) ignore the legal consequences and only deal with them if you get sued.It takes being a bit cheeky , but you can alsoc ) contact the author/publisher of the old game and get ( in writing ) that they have no problems whatsoever with you releasing the clone.If you 're dealing with a company like Atari ( who ?
yes , they still exist !
) or anything Disney , you are probably out of luck .
If you 're dealing with a Scott Adams ( of Pirate 's adventure fame ) type of person , there 's probably no problem at all .
As you say the game is rather obscure , so chances are they will have no problem with you releasing a remake , and they wo n't sue .
Perhaps they can even benefit from your efforts , if you 're willing to link to the original game ! Contacting the author/publisher of the old game ( more accurately , the rights holder to the game ) is covered under " pay for a lawyer " .If you go to the rights holder and work out anything in writing , it 's entirely possible , that it 's not even valid , or does n't cover you appropriately , or whatever.Or , alternatively , it 's covered by option b... go to them , talk to them , get something in writing that may or may not be worth a damn , and when it goes big and they want a bigger slice , they sue you for breach of contract over some nitpick issue that you did n't think was a big deal.If you want to know your legal liability ask a lawyer , do NOT just go off asking the potentially opposing partner to a suit for permission... you do n't know what to correctly get , and you do n't know what it 's worth.Example 1 : you get consent from the trademark holder to have a name similar to the original , but then the person who got the patent rights comes after you for violating a patent that was incorporated into the game.Example 2 : you go to the original rights holder , and they say it 's all cool , and then when you release the game , a third-party sues you for patent infringement , because the original rights holder never had the ability to grant you license to use a patent that they licensed .
... as stated , the law is a complex rat 's nest , and there 's a reason why people have to go to school to learn it , and most states prevent people from practicing law outside of very narrow guidelines .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>a) pay a lawyer, orb) ignore the legal consequences and only deal with them if you get sued.It takes being a bit cheeky, but you can alsoc) contact the author/publisher of the old game and get (in writing) that they have no problems whatsoever with you releasing the clone.If you're dealing with a company like Atari (who?
yes, they still exist!
) or anything Disney, you are probably out of luck.
If you're dealing with a Scott Adams (of Pirate's adventure fame) type of person, there's probably no problem at all.
As you say the game is rather obscure, so chances are they will have no problem with you releasing a remake, and they won't sue.
Perhaps they can even benefit from your efforts, if you're willing to link to the original game!Contacting the author/publisher of the old game (more accurately, the rights holder to the game) is covered under "pay for a lawyer".If you go to the rights holder and work out anything in writing, it's entirely possible, that it's not even valid, or doesn't cover you appropriately, or whatever.Or, alternatively, it's covered by option b... go to them, talk to them, get something in writing that may or may not be worth a damn, and when it goes big and they want a bigger slice, they sue you for breach of contract over some nitpick issue that you didn't think was a big deal.If you want to know your legal liability ask a lawyer, do NOT just go off asking the potentially opposing partner to a suit for permission... you don't know what to correctly get, and you don't know what it's worth.Example 1: you get consent from the trademark holder to have a name similar to the original, but then the person who got the patent rights comes after you for violating a patent that was incorporated into the game.Example 2: you go to the original rights holder, and they say it's all cool, and then when you release the game, a third-party sues you for patent infringement, because the original rights holder never had the ability to grant you license to use a patent that they licensed.
... as stated, the law is a complex rat's nest, and there's a reason why people have to go to school to learn it, and most states prevent people from practicing law outside of very narrow guidelines.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734892</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734826</id>
	<title>Re:You can't</title>
	<author>dnaumov</author>
	<datestamp>1263293820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Even better, instead of just getting a lawyer, get a lawyer AND make original games! Sounds crazy, but seems to work for some...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Even better , instead of just getting a lawyer , get a lawyer AND make original games !
Sounds crazy , but seems to work for some.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even better, instead of just getting a lawyer, get a lawyer AND make original games!
Sounds crazy, but seems to work for some...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734650</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30748476</id>
	<title>Re:Position wisely</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263379380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Track down and contact the original maker and ask them permission.</p></div></blockquote><p>Submitter here.</p><p>I don't want the original author's permission.</p><p>I will certainly be contacting the author, but only after the game is finished. I won't be stopped by chilling effects. My game is better than theirs and I'm finishing it regardless of the legal consequences simply because I want to play it when it's done. What I want to know is how to avoid legal risk when I inevitably have to have that conversation with the author. I'm not interested in his permission, only covering my ass. This may sound cold, but, again, my game is better than theirs (even if the idea is unoriginal) and I think the best game should win, not whoever makes it first.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Track down and contact the original maker and ask them permission.Submitter here.I do n't want the original author 's permission.I will certainly be contacting the author , but only after the game is finished .
I wo n't be stopped by chilling effects .
My game is better than theirs and I 'm finishing it regardless of the legal consequences simply because I want to play it when it 's done .
What I want to know is how to avoid legal risk when I inevitably have to have that conversation with the author .
I 'm not interested in his permission , only covering my ass .
This may sound cold , but , again , my game is better than theirs ( even if the idea is unoriginal ) and I think the best game should win , not whoever makes it first .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Track down and contact the original maker and ask them permission.Submitter here.I don't want the original author's permission.I will certainly be contacting the author, but only after the game is finished.
I won't be stopped by chilling effects.
My game is better than theirs and I'm finishing it regardless of the legal consequences simply because I want to play it when it's done.
What I want to know is how to avoid legal risk when I inevitably have to have that conversation with the author.
I'm not interested in his permission, only covering my ass.
This may sound cold, but, again, my game is better than theirs (even if the idea is unoriginal) and I think the best game should win, not whoever makes it first.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734670</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734680</id>
	<title>Re:Laws have become horribly, horribly complex</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263291960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><blockquote><div><p>How do I make sure I'm legally in the clear without hiring an expensive lawyer</p></div></blockquote><p>Laws have become horribly, horribly complex. I'm not sure any of us can do that for anything we do.</p></div><p>This is very true.  I've been reading a lot about law recently, because it's become pertinent to my everyday life.  In this case, and ALL legal cases, the law is SUPER crazy complex.  First you need to read up on rules governing this stuff, then laws, then amendments to those laws, then you have to read a bunch of court cases on the matter, and then you have to have the legal background to understand how all of those apply to your specific situation.</p><p>The summary author really only has one of two choices: a) pay a lawyer, or b) ignore the legal consequences and only deal with them if you get sued.</p><p>Very simply, that's the plain ugly truth hanging-all-out-there-naked version of every question of, "what should I do about law X, or law Y"... well, unless you're in Arizona.  Then there's an option c) pay someone who is willing to do the research for you, even if they're not a lawyer, but understand their qualifications before trusting their evaluations.  Outside of Arizona, no one can even give you any clues about your legal liability without running aground of questions of practicing law.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How do I make sure I 'm legally in the clear without hiring an expensive lawyerLaws have become horribly , horribly complex .
I 'm not sure any of us can do that for anything we do.This is very true .
I 've been reading a lot about law recently , because it 's become pertinent to my everyday life .
In this case , and ALL legal cases , the law is SUPER crazy complex .
First you need to read up on rules governing this stuff , then laws , then amendments to those laws , then you have to read a bunch of court cases on the matter , and then you have to have the legal background to understand how all of those apply to your specific situation.The summary author really only has one of two choices : a ) pay a lawyer , or b ) ignore the legal consequences and only deal with them if you get sued.Very simply , that 's the plain ugly truth hanging-all-out-there-naked version of every question of , " what should I do about law X , or law Y " ... well , unless you 're in Arizona .
Then there 's an option c ) pay someone who is willing to do the research for you , even if they 're not a lawyer , but understand their qualifications before trusting their evaluations .
Outside of Arizona , no one can even give you any clues about your legal liability without running aground of questions of practicing law .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How do I make sure I'm legally in the clear without hiring an expensive lawyerLaws have become horribly, horribly complex.
I'm not sure any of us can do that for anything we do.This is very true.
I've been reading a lot about law recently, because it's become pertinent to my everyday life.
In this case, and ALL legal cases, the law is SUPER crazy complex.
First you need to read up on rules governing this stuff, then laws, then amendments to those laws, then you have to read a bunch of court cases on the matter, and then you have to have the legal background to understand how all of those apply to your specific situation.The summary author really only has one of two choices: a) pay a lawyer, or b) ignore the legal consequences and only deal with them if you get sued.Very simply, that's the plain ugly truth hanging-all-out-there-naked version of every question of, "what should I do about law X, or law Y"... well, unless you're in Arizona.
Then there's an option c) pay someone who is willing to do the research for you, even if they're not a lawyer, but understand their qualifications before trusting their evaluations.
Outside of Arizona, no one can even give you any clues about your legal liability without running aground of questions of practicing law.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734618</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734872</id>
	<title>In the UK...</title>
	<author>CapnOats.com</author>
	<datestamp>1263294240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>...you <i>should</i> be fine.<br>
<br>
This article details legal proceedings in just such a case.<br>
<a href="http://www.daledietrich.com/gaming/novas-pool-cue-game-mechanics-not-protectable-by-uk-copyright/" title="daledietrich.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.daledietrich.com/gaming/novas-pool-cue-game-mechanics-not-protectable-by-uk-copyright/</a> [daledietrich.com] <br>
<br>
A choice quote by Lord Justice Jacob is<blockquote><div><p>"A series of drawings is a series of graphic works, not a single graphic work in itself. No-one would say that the copyright in a single drawing of Felix the Cat is infringed by a drawing of Donald Duck. A series of cartoon frames showing Felix running over a cliff edge into space, looking down and only then falling would not be infringed by a similar set of frames depicting Donald doing the same thing. That is in effect what is alleged here."</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
This is similar to the Lexulous (formerly Scrabulous) case, where the games makers were forced to make minor changes, including a rename, as it was too close a copy of Scrabble.<br>
<br>
More details can be found at<br>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexulous#Legal\_and\_copyright\_issues" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexulous#Legal\_and\_copyright\_issues</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...you should be fine .
This article details legal proceedings in just such a case .
http : //www.daledietrich.com/gaming/novas-pool-cue-game-mechanics-not-protectable-by-uk-copyright/ [ daledietrich.com ] A choice quote by Lord Justice Jacob is " A series of drawings is a series of graphic works , not a single graphic work in itself .
No-one would say that the copyright in a single drawing of Felix the Cat is infringed by a drawing of Donald Duck .
A series of cartoon frames showing Felix running over a cliff edge into space , looking down and only then falling would not be infringed by a similar set of frames depicting Donald doing the same thing .
That is in effect what is alleged here .
" This is similar to the Lexulous ( formerly Scrabulous ) case , where the games makers were forced to make minor changes , including a rename , as it was too close a copy of Scrabble .
More details can be found at http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexulous # Legal \ _and \ _copyright \ _issues [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...you should be fine.
This article details legal proceedings in just such a case.
http://www.daledietrich.com/gaming/novas-pool-cue-game-mechanics-not-protectable-by-uk-copyright/ [daledietrich.com] 

A choice quote by Lord Justice Jacob is"A series of drawings is a series of graphic works, not a single graphic work in itself.
No-one would say that the copyright in a single drawing of Felix the Cat is infringed by a drawing of Donald Duck.
A series of cartoon frames showing Felix running over a cliff edge into space, looking down and only then falling would not be infringed by a similar set of frames depicting Donald doing the same thing.
That is in effect what is alleged here.
"

This is similar to the Lexulous (formerly Scrabulous) case, where the games makers were forced to make minor changes, including a rename, as it was too close a copy of Scrabble.
More details can be found at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexulous#Legal\_and\_copyright\_issues [wikipedia.org]
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735632</id>
	<title>Develop first, ask questions later.</title>
	<author>jotaeleemeese</author>
	<datestamp>1263302940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In other words use common sense ( I don't need to be a frigging lawyer to know that).</p><p>Develop the game, release under an open license.</p><p>If anybody is interested about it in the legal sense, then they will bother you about it, at that point you stop any alleged infringing activities if youcan defend yourself legally (it can't be copy right, it can.t be patents, it can't be trademarks, the vague "look and feel" or a general idea about a game is not protectable, the myriad of "look and feel" clones of famous games or even of famous hardware should put your mind to rest), now if the company wants to pursue the army of developers of the application in localities outside the US, well, all the power to them, for starters there are certain to have no patent, trademark or copyright claims in the EU and many other localities.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In other words use common sense ( I do n't need to be a frigging lawyer to know that ) .Develop the game , release under an open license.If anybody is interested about it in the legal sense , then they will bother you about it , at that point you stop any alleged infringing activities if youcan defend yourself legally ( it ca n't be copy right , it can.t be patents , it ca n't be trademarks , the vague " look and feel " or a general idea about a game is not protectable , the myriad of " look and feel " clones of famous games or even of famous hardware should put your mind to rest ) , now if the company wants to pursue the army of developers of the application in localities outside the US , well , all the power to them , for starters there are certain to have no patent , trademark or copyright claims in the EU and many other localities .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In other words use common sense ( I don't need to be a frigging lawyer to know that).Develop the game, release under an open license.If anybody is interested about it in the legal sense, then they will bother you about it, at that point you stop any alleged infringing activities if youcan defend yourself legally (it can't be copy right, it can.t be patents, it can't be trademarks, the vague "look and feel" or a general idea about a game is not protectable, the myriad of "look and feel" clones of famous games or even of famous hardware should put your mind to rest), now if the company wants to pursue the army of developers of the application in localities outside the US, well, all the power to them, for starters there are certain to have no patent, trademark or copyright claims in the EU and many other localities.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30736816</id>
	<title>Re:The real question: WOULD they sue?</title>
	<author>Chris Mattern</author>
	<datestamp>1263310680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This would land on the desk of a company lawyer, whose thought processes on the matter would be: "If I grant permission and something bad comes of this guy cloning the game, I'll get blamed for it.  If I grant permission and this guy makes a lot of money cloning the game, I'll get blamed for the company not getting that money.  If I don't grant permission, I can't get blamed for anything.  Which do I choose?"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This would land on the desk of a company lawyer , whose thought processes on the matter would be : " If I grant permission and something bad comes of this guy cloning the game , I 'll get blamed for it .
If I grant permission and this guy makes a lot of money cloning the game , I 'll get blamed for the company not getting that money .
If I do n't grant permission , I ca n't get blamed for anything .
Which do I choose ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This would land on the desk of a company lawyer, whose thought processes on the matter would be: "If I grant permission and something bad comes of this guy cloning the game, I'll get blamed for it.
If I grant permission and this guy makes a lot of money cloning the game, I'll get blamed for the company not getting that money.
If I don't grant permission, I can't get blamed for anything.
Which do I choose?
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735220</id>
	<title>Re:I will watch this thread like a hawk.</title>
	<author>iainl</author>
	<datestamp>1263298800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In \_my\_ humble opinion, your game sounds no more a clone of EotB as it is of The Bard's Tale, Dungeon Master, Captive or any other from the genre.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In \ _my \ _ humble opinion , your game sounds no more a clone of EotB as it is of The Bard 's Tale , Dungeon Master , Captive or any other from the genre .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In \_my\_ humble opinion, your game sounds no more a clone of EotB as it is of The Bard's Tale, Dungeon Master, Captive or any other from the genre.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734920</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30793702</id>
	<title>Incorporate as an LLC for starters</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263640920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One thing I would encourage you to do, if you have not already, is to create a corporation to "handle" all of the development, distribution, etc, of your games. If done correctly, and you <i>are</i> ever sued, then the most you can lose if whatever assets are held by the corporation.<br>Notice what I said about correctly. You have to go through the motions -- don't get lazy. If you don't follow the rules, then a plaintiff can "pierce the veil" of your corporation as a sham and still get your personal assets. Bye bye house.</p><p>If your state allows it (and most do these days), I would form a Limited Liability Corporation (an LLC). This can usually be done by filing some paperwork and a couple hundred bucks with your state attorney general's office.<br>You set yourself up as head of the corporation and the corporation pays you as an employee.  The LLC is nice because there is no double taxing (e.g., it isn't taxed first to the LLC and then to you as an employee.)  In terms of maintenance, just make sure the LLC has its own bank account, you keep a reasonable balance of money in it (so the court won't say it is an underfunded sham/shell), you pay bills in its name, etc.</p><p>As with most things in the law, you can do this <i>pro se</i> (yourself), if you're bright and things like this don't confuse you. Read up on it first, of course. I, being an attorney, do recommend that you have your attorney do it for you, to make sure everything is done right. It isn't hard and shouldn't cost you an arm and a leg. If you have any family members who are attorneys, ask them for a favor. Or if you know any young attorneys looking for a few bucks, see if they'll do it for cheap too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One thing I would encourage you to do , if you have not already , is to create a corporation to " handle " all of the development , distribution , etc , of your games .
If done correctly , and you are ever sued , then the most you can lose if whatever assets are held by the corporation.Notice what I said about correctly .
You have to go through the motions -- do n't get lazy .
If you do n't follow the rules , then a plaintiff can " pierce the veil " of your corporation as a sham and still get your personal assets .
Bye bye house.If your state allows it ( and most do these days ) , I would form a Limited Liability Corporation ( an LLC ) .
This can usually be done by filing some paperwork and a couple hundred bucks with your state attorney general 's office.You set yourself up as head of the corporation and the corporation pays you as an employee .
The LLC is nice because there is no double taxing ( e.g. , it is n't taxed first to the LLC and then to you as an employee .
) In terms of maintenance , just make sure the LLC has its own bank account , you keep a reasonable balance of money in it ( so the court wo n't say it is an underfunded sham/shell ) , you pay bills in its name , etc.As with most things in the law , you can do this pro se ( yourself ) , if you 're bright and things like this do n't confuse you .
Read up on it first , of course .
I , being an attorney , do recommend that you have your attorney do it for you , to make sure everything is done right .
It is n't hard and should n't cost you an arm and a leg .
If you have any family members who are attorneys , ask them for a favor .
Or if you know any young attorneys looking for a few bucks , see if they 'll do it for cheap too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One thing I would encourage you to do, if you have not already, is to create a corporation to "handle" all of the development, distribution, etc, of your games.
If done correctly, and you are ever sued, then the most you can lose if whatever assets are held by the corporation.Notice what I said about correctly.
You have to go through the motions -- don't get lazy.
If you don't follow the rules, then a plaintiff can "pierce the veil" of your corporation as a sham and still get your personal assets.
Bye bye house.If your state allows it (and most do these days), I would form a Limited Liability Corporation (an LLC).
This can usually be done by filing some paperwork and a couple hundred bucks with your state attorney general's office.You set yourself up as head of the corporation and the corporation pays you as an employee.
The LLC is nice because there is no double taxing (e.g., it isn't taxed first to the LLC and then to you as an employee.
)  In terms of maintenance, just make sure the LLC has its own bank account, you keep a reasonable balance of money in it (so the court won't say it is an underfunded sham/shell), you pay bills in its name, etc.As with most things in the law, you can do this pro se (yourself), if you're bright and things like this don't confuse you.
Read up on it first, of course.
I, being an attorney, do recommend that you have your attorney do it for you, to make sure everything is done right.
It isn't hard and shouldn't cost you an arm and a leg.
If you have any family members who are attorneys, ask them for a favor.
Or if you know any young attorneys looking for a few bucks, see if they'll do it for cheap too.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734670</id>
	<title>Position wisely</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263291900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>On the globe that is. If you do not want to get sued (I am European so we don't have that problem really here) make sure you are NOT officially an US developer. Create a cheap company on some island in the middle of nowhere where the US has nothing to say. When the original creator starts wanting to get paid for your work, move to that island and just enjoy it! Laws are so utterly complex, one law overruling or disagreeing with another law that it would be foolish to think you by yourself can fight against that system. They will just bleed you dry if they really want to and have the resources to do so.

However, and this is more serious advice. I like to make remakes of oldschool games myself. Sometimes with new elements, but I have also made a lot 1:1 remakes. In those cases I just wrote to the original creator. Asking if they were ok with it. This was all non-profit though, but for the 8 games I remade, 1 guy said he didn't want me to remake it. So I ignored him, remade it for myself but never gave it to anyone.

I never ran into problems with that last tactic. And I think it really is the best advice I can give you. Track down and contact the original maker and ask them permission. That would save you so much trouble if they agree.</htmltext>
<tokenext>On the globe that is .
If you do not want to get sued ( I am European so we do n't have that problem really here ) make sure you are NOT officially an US developer .
Create a cheap company on some island in the middle of nowhere where the US has nothing to say .
When the original creator starts wanting to get paid for your work , move to that island and just enjoy it !
Laws are so utterly complex , one law overruling or disagreeing with another law that it would be foolish to think you by yourself can fight against that system .
They will just bleed you dry if they really want to and have the resources to do so .
However , and this is more serious advice .
I like to make remakes of oldschool games myself .
Sometimes with new elements , but I have also made a lot 1 : 1 remakes .
In those cases I just wrote to the original creator .
Asking if they were ok with it .
This was all non-profit though , but for the 8 games I remade , 1 guy said he did n't want me to remake it .
So I ignored him , remade it for myself but never gave it to anyone .
I never ran into problems with that last tactic .
And I think it really is the best advice I can give you .
Track down and contact the original maker and ask them permission .
That would save you so much trouble if they agree .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On the globe that is.
If you do not want to get sued (I am European so we don't have that problem really here) make sure you are NOT officially an US developer.
Create a cheap company on some island in the middle of nowhere where the US has nothing to say.
When the original creator starts wanting to get paid for your work, move to that island and just enjoy it!
Laws are so utterly complex, one law overruling or disagreeing with another law that it would be foolish to think you by yourself can fight against that system.
They will just bleed you dry if they really want to and have the resources to do so.
However, and this is more serious advice.
I like to make remakes of oldschool games myself.
Sometimes with new elements, but I have also made a lot 1:1 remakes.
In those cases I just wrote to the original creator.
Asking if they were ok with it.
This was all non-profit though, but for the 8 games I remade, 1 guy said he didn't want me to remake it.
So I ignored him, remade it for myself but never gave it to anyone.
I never ran into problems with that last tactic.
And I think it really is the best advice I can give you.
Track down and contact the original maker and ask them permission.
That would save you so much trouble if they agree.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30736750</id>
	<title>Re:You don't...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263310440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>How do I make sure I don't get pregnant while having sex every day without using any form of contraception?</p><p>(Obvious answer: you don't.  If you want to make sure you're legally in the clear, you hire an expensive lawyer.  If you don't want to hire an expensive lawyer, then you live with not being sure you're legally in the clear.)</p></div><p>i didn't know that hiring a lawyer was now considered a form of safe sex</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How do I make sure I do n't get pregnant while having sex every day without using any form of contraception ?
( Obvious answer : you do n't .
If you want to make sure you 're legally in the clear , you hire an expensive lawyer .
If you do n't want to hire an expensive lawyer , then you live with not being sure you 're legally in the clear .
) i did n't know that hiring a lawyer was now considered a form of safe sex</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How do I make sure I don't get pregnant while having sex every day without using any form of contraception?
(Obvious answer: you don't.
If you want to make sure you're legally in the clear, you hire an expensive lawyer.
If you don't want to hire an expensive lawyer, then you live with not being sure you're legally in the clear.
)i didn't know that hiring a lawyer was now considered a form of safe sex
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735146</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735550</id>
	<title>It's a sea of derivative works...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263301980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Given how readily the big guys "rip each other off" on genre and gameplay component ideas, as long as you're not literally stealing copyrighted assets from their version of things, you should be fine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Given how readily the big guys " rip each other off " on genre and gameplay component ideas , as long as you 're not literally stealing copyrighted assets from their version of things , you should be fine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Given how readily the big guys "rip each other off" on genre and gameplay component ideas, as long as you're not literally stealing copyrighted assets from their version of things, you should be fine.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734714</id>
	<title>Original game</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263292320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do you know who owns the IP to the original game? Do they have a habit for litigating? Do they even know they have the IP or did they acquire it by buying distributor X that bought then bankrupt studio Y that got it from independent coder Z?</p><p>And is the original game Hardwar or X-com? Because in that case, keep programming, whatever happens<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p><p>(Make sure you release the source before getting dragged off by some goons into a black helicopter though)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you know who owns the IP to the original game ?
Do they have a habit for litigating ?
Do they even know they have the IP or did they acquire it by buying distributor X that bought then bankrupt studio Y that got it from independent coder Z ? And is the original game Hardwar or X-com ?
Because in that case , keep programming , whatever happens ; - ) ( Make sure you release the source before getting dragged off by some goons into a black helicopter though )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you know who owns the IP to the original game?
Do they have a habit for litigating?
Do they even know they have the IP or did they acquire it by buying distributor X that bought then bankrupt studio Y that got it from independent coder Z?And is the original game Hardwar or X-com?
Because in that case, keep programming, whatever happens ;-)(Make sure you release the source before getting dragged off by some goons into a black helicopter though)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30737554</id>
	<title>Copyright law</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263313560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, he seems to have pretty good idea of what copyright is. The copyright is the right to copy. If you don't copy, you cannot infringe on anyone's copyright. In fact, if he can prove that he wrote it/created it himself, he wouldn't really infringe on anyone's copyright even if his work happened to be exactly the same to a byte. That doesn't mean he's not infringing on other intellectual property rights or trademarks, of course.</p><p>The copyright law itself is not that different in most countries (at least in North America and Europe).</p><p>Of course, from some US intellectual property cases it seems that your rights and the intention of the law has nothing to do with whether some can sue you, win the trial and get an obscene amount of money from you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , he seems to have pretty good idea of what copyright is .
The copyright is the right to copy .
If you do n't copy , you can not infringe on anyone 's copyright .
In fact , if he can prove that he wrote it/created it himself , he would n't really infringe on anyone 's copyright even if his work happened to be exactly the same to a byte .
That does n't mean he 's not infringing on other intellectual property rights or trademarks , of course.The copyright law itself is not that different in most countries ( at least in North America and Europe ) .Of course , from some US intellectual property cases it seems that your rights and the intention of the law has nothing to do with whether some can sue you , win the trial and get an obscene amount of money from you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, he seems to have pretty good idea of what copyright is.
The copyright is the right to copy.
If you don't copy, you cannot infringe on anyone's copyright.
In fact, if he can prove that he wrote it/created it himself, he wouldn't really infringe on anyone's copyright even if his work happened to be exactly the same to a byte.
That doesn't mean he's not infringing on other intellectual property rights or trademarks, of course.The copyright law itself is not that different in most countries (at least in North America and Europe).Of course, from some US intellectual property cases it seems that your rights and the intention of the law has nothing to do with whether some can sue you, win the trial and get an obscene amount of money from you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735108</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735902</id>
	<title>Almost all games are clones</title>
	<author>Tei</author>
	<datestamp>1263305340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Games like Dune 2 and Warcraft and almost all other RTS games play like each other.<br>Most FPS games play like each other.</p><p>What is working here is that:</p><p>Features are viral, and once a game invent a way to build games that seems fun, others clone that.  Even the games that create a whole new way to play, clone everything else, from menus, filesystems, way to store a bitmap in a disk. The creation of a videogames is a community effort, where all minds work togueter.  No game can claim to be 100\% original, with no influence from other games. Almost all games can be draw into a "family tree" of incluences.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Games like Dune 2 and Warcraft and almost all other RTS games play like each other.Most FPS games play like each other.What is working here is that : Features are viral , and once a game invent a way to build games that seems fun , others clone that .
Even the games that create a whole new way to play , clone everything else , from menus , filesystems , way to store a bitmap in a disk .
The creation of a videogames is a community effort , where all minds work togueter .
No game can claim to be 100 \ % original , with no influence from other games .
Almost all games can be draw into a " family tree " of incluences .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Games like Dune 2 and Warcraft and almost all other RTS games play like each other.Most FPS games play like each other.What is working here is that:Features are viral, and once a game invent a way to build games that seems fun, others clone that.
Even the games that create a whole new way to play, clone everything else, from menus, filesystems, way to store a bitmap in a disk.
The creation of a videogames is a community effort, where all minds work togueter.
No game can claim to be 100\% original, with no influence from other games.
Almost all games can be draw into a "family tree" of incluences.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30739508</id>
	<title>Re:You don't...</title>
	<author>k8to</author>
	<datestamp>1263320400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Useless snark:</p><p>Have sex with someone of the same gender!</p><p>Or more practically: get sterilized.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Useless snark : Have sex with someone of the same gender ! Or more practically : get sterilized .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Useless snark:Have sex with someone of the same gender!Or more practically: get sterilized.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735146</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735216</id>
	<title>Re:Laws have become horribly, horribly complex</title>
	<author>johny42</author>
	<datestamp>1263298740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The summary author really only has one of two choices: a) pay a lawyer, or b) ignore the legal consequences and only deal with them if you get sued.</p></div><p>What about<br>
c) talk to the copyright holder of the original game?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The summary author really only has one of two choices : a ) pay a lawyer , or b ) ignore the legal consequences and only deal with them if you get sued.What about c ) talk to the copyright holder of the original game ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The summary author really only has one of two choices: a) pay a lawyer, or b) ignore the legal consequences and only deal with them if you get sued.What about
c) talk to the copyright holder of the original game?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734680</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30738746</id>
	<title>Re:You can't</title>
	<author>julesh</author>
	<datestamp>1263317880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>You can't.</i></p><p>Yes you can.  This is what limited liability corporations were designed for: worst case, you get sued and a court rules against you.  You walk away, the original rights holders get your profits (minus whatever salary you've already paid to yourself) and the rights to your work.</p><p>I would like to take issue with something the submitter states though:</p><p><i>The original game has no trademark </i></p><p>Yes, it does.  That trademark might not be \_registered\_, but as soon as you sell something with a specified name, that's a trademark.  It's harder (or, in some jurisdictions, impossible) to claim compensation for infringement of an unregistered trademark, but you could end up with a fair chunk of legal hassle over trying to use something close to it.  Do yourself a favour, come up with a new name.</p><p>IANAL, but I don't think the submitter really needs one here.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You ca n't.Yes you can .
This is what limited liability corporations were designed for : worst case , you get sued and a court rules against you .
You walk away , the original rights holders get your profits ( minus whatever salary you 've already paid to yourself ) and the rights to your work.I would like to take issue with something the submitter states though : The original game has no trademark Yes , it does .
That trademark might not be \ _registered \ _ , but as soon as you sell something with a specified name , that 's a trademark .
It 's harder ( or , in some jurisdictions , impossible ) to claim compensation for infringement of an unregistered trademark , but you could end up with a fair chunk of legal hassle over trying to use something close to it .
Do yourself a favour , come up with a new name.IANAL , but I do n't think the submitter really needs one here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can't.Yes you can.
This is what limited liability corporations were designed for: worst case, you get sued and a court rules against you.
You walk away, the original rights holders get your profits (minus whatever salary you've already paid to yourself) and the rights to your work.I would like to take issue with something the submitter states though:The original game has no trademark Yes, it does.
That trademark might not be \_registered\_, but as soon as you sell something with a specified name, that's a trademark.
It's harder (or, in some jurisdictions, impossible) to claim compensation for infringement of an unregistered trademark, but you could end up with a fair chunk of legal hassle over trying to use something close to it.
Do yourself a favour, come up with a new name.IANAL, but I don't think the submitter really needs one here.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734650</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30736360</id>
	<title>Re:Laws have become horribly, horribly complex</title>
	<author>ultranova</author>
	<datestamp>1263308280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I'm not sure any of us can do that for anything we do.</p></div> </blockquote><p>And it doesn't even matter if we could. The submitter can be sued for infringing whether he's actually breaking any law or not, and since he can't afford a lawyer and a long court battle, he'll lose.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not sure any of us can do that for anything we do .
And it does n't even matter if we could .
The submitter can be sued for infringing whether he 's actually breaking any law or not , and since he ca n't afford a lawyer and a long court battle , he 'll lose .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not sure any of us can do that for anything we do.
And it doesn't even matter if we could.
The submitter can be sued for infringing whether he's actually breaking any law or not, and since he can't afford a lawyer and a long court battle, he'll lose.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734618</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30736138</id>
	<title>A couple of thoughts from a lawyer</title>
	<author>classified</author>
	<datestamp>1263306780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am a lawyer and practice primarily in software.  I tried to read through this thread and responses - and as is typical here, at least for me, it is hard to separate the valuable insight from really really bad advice. I enjoy<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. mainly for the comical signature lines most of the time.</p><p>First - no venture, no product or service, is risk free.  There are ways to minimize the risk - and often small changes can make a big difference.  The post you made here is itself possible evidence.  By merely posting in a public area like this, and describing your intent, you have increased your risk.</p><p>Second - no software, and I mean none of it, is IP infringement free.  Your objective should be to modify or avoid areas that increase risk, and then proceed.</p><p>Third - a common misconception in software development of related software is the idea that because you do not have the prior code, you are not making a derivative work.  There are a number of copyright cases in other areas (they principally deal with "plots" in movies and books) that will apply to software development, because a game in the end is an interactive audiovisual work that is also a story that the player writes.  So, you have to apply these older cases in the theater world to software.  Those cases distinguish between going too far in plot duplication, from taking only what is known as "scenes a faire."  That doctrine translates in English to "common element" or "building block."  So, for example, copyright law will not prevent one author from using a common theme, element or building block gained from the knowledge of a past work.  Otherwise, copyright would protect the idea - and copyright law cannot protect ideas.</p><p>So,  you need to go see a lawyer, and show the lawyer the prior game.  A good lawyer who knows copyright law can then tell you what elements are "building blocks" and which are core plot or thematic elements.  In the cases, one component of this analysis is how well a character is developed.  For example, "Lara Croft" was a very well developed game character.  In the games she killed people and blew things up etc and had grand adventures.  So, the idea of a woman in a game doing these things cannot be protected by the owner of the Lara Croft games.  However, as a subsequent game character approaches expressive elements of Lara Croft's character . . . infringement is likely.</p><p>It is even more complex than this, though.  Because assuming you can hurdle copyright law, now you need to deal with trademark law.  In short . . . this is a complex issue and you do need to see a lawyer.</p><p>I have been engaged to both prevent, and to correct, errors made during software development.  It is VASTLY less expensive to hire a lawyer and prevent errors.  Once an error is made, the cost is astronomical to fix it.  The last jury trial I did was a game development gone bad, and I represented the developer trying to get paid.  We won and the jury gave us 100\% . . . but since that time, I have devoted the last 15 years to doing only transactional software development law and licensing.  Please find a lawyer and pay them for some advice.  There are things you can do on the front end to really minimize the likelihood that the prior game owner will sue you.</p><p>A final thought - many people have suggested contacting the prior game owner.  That is definitely something to consider IMO only if the advice is that your game is likely an infringement of the prior game.  When development would be easier this way we advise this - but be prepared for negotiating a royalty deal.  In most cases, a developer will simply "design around" the prior intellectual property and not seek permission.  However, depending on the IP owner, sometimes permission is easy (for example, it is fairly easy to get permission from the estate of Jimi Hendrix; it is next near impossible to get it from the estate of Jim Morrison of the Doors - and figuring this out is rather easy - also, a lawyer can do this for you anonymously).</p><p>- mike oliver</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am a lawyer and practice primarily in software .
I tried to read through this thread and responses - and as is typical here , at least for me , it is hard to separate the valuable insight from really really bad advice .
I enjoy / .
mainly for the comical signature lines most of the time.First - no venture , no product or service , is risk free .
There are ways to minimize the risk - and often small changes can make a big difference .
The post you made here is itself possible evidence .
By merely posting in a public area like this , and describing your intent , you have increased your risk.Second - no software , and I mean none of it , is IP infringement free .
Your objective should be to modify or avoid areas that increase risk , and then proceed.Third - a common misconception in software development of related software is the idea that because you do not have the prior code , you are not making a derivative work .
There are a number of copyright cases in other areas ( they principally deal with " plots " in movies and books ) that will apply to software development , because a game in the end is an interactive audiovisual work that is also a story that the player writes .
So , you have to apply these older cases in the theater world to software .
Those cases distinguish between going too far in plot duplication , from taking only what is known as " scenes a faire .
" That doctrine translates in English to " common element " or " building block .
" So , for example , copyright law will not prevent one author from using a common theme , element or building block gained from the knowledge of a past work .
Otherwise , copyright would protect the idea - and copyright law can not protect ideas.So , you need to go see a lawyer , and show the lawyer the prior game .
A good lawyer who knows copyright law can then tell you what elements are " building blocks " and which are core plot or thematic elements .
In the cases , one component of this analysis is how well a character is developed .
For example , " Lara Croft " was a very well developed game character .
In the games she killed people and blew things up etc and had grand adventures .
So , the idea of a woman in a game doing these things can not be protected by the owner of the Lara Croft games .
However , as a subsequent game character approaches expressive elements of Lara Croft 's character .
. .
infringement is likely.It is even more complex than this , though .
Because assuming you can hurdle copyright law , now you need to deal with trademark law .
In short .
. .
this is a complex issue and you do need to see a lawyer.I have been engaged to both prevent , and to correct , errors made during software development .
It is VASTLY less expensive to hire a lawyer and prevent errors .
Once an error is made , the cost is astronomical to fix it .
The last jury trial I did was a game development gone bad , and I represented the developer trying to get paid .
We won and the jury gave us 100 \ % .
. .
but since that time , I have devoted the last 15 years to doing only transactional software development law and licensing .
Please find a lawyer and pay them for some advice .
There are things you can do on the front end to really minimize the likelihood that the prior game owner will sue you.A final thought - many people have suggested contacting the prior game owner .
That is definitely something to consider IMO only if the advice is that your game is likely an infringement of the prior game .
When development would be easier this way we advise this - but be prepared for negotiating a royalty deal .
In most cases , a developer will simply " design around " the prior intellectual property and not seek permission .
However , depending on the IP owner , sometimes permission is easy ( for example , it is fairly easy to get permission from the estate of Jimi Hendrix ; it is next near impossible to get it from the estate of Jim Morrison of the Doors - and figuring this out is rather easy - also , a lawyer can do this for you anonymously ) .- mike oliver</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am a lawyer and practice primarily in software.
I tried to read through this thread and responses - and as is typical here, at least for me, it is hard to separate the valuable insight from really really bad advice.
I enjoy /.
mainly for the comical signature lines most of the time.First - no venture, no product or service, is risk free.
There are ways to minimize the risk - and often small changes can make a big difference.
The post you made here is itself possible evidence.
By merely posting in a public area like this, and describing your intent, you have increased your risk.Second - no software, and I mean none of it, is IP infringement free.
Your objective should be to modify or avoid areas that increase risk, and then proceed.Third - a common misconception in software development of related software is the idea that because you do not have the prior code, you are not making a derivative work.
There are a number of copyright cases in other areas (they principally deal with "plots" in movies and books) that will apply to software development, because a game in the end is an interactive audiovisual work that is also a story that the player writes.
So, you have to apply these older cases in the theater world to software.
Those cases distinguish between going too far in plot duplication, from taking only what is known as "scenes a faire.
"  That doctrine translates in English to "common element" or "building block.
"  So, for example, copyright law will not prevent one author from using a common theme, element or building block gained from the knowledge of a past work.
Otherwise, copyright would protect the idea - and copyright law cannot protect ideas.So,  you need to go see a lawyer, and show the lawyer the prior game.
A good lawyer who knows copyright law can then tell you what elements are "building blocks" and which are core plot or thematic elements.
In the cases, one component of this analysis is how well a character is developed.
For example, "Lara Croft" was a very well developed game character.
In the games she killed people and blew things up etc and had grand adventures.
So, the idea of a woman in a game doing these things cannot be protected by the owner of the Lara Croft games.
However, as a subsequent game character approaches expressive elements of Lara Croft's character .
. .
infringement is likely.It is even more complex than this, though.
Because assuming you can hurdle copyright law, now you need to deal with trademark law.
In short .
. .
this is a complex issue and you do need to see a lawyer.I have been engaged to both prevent, and to correct, errors made during software development.
It is VASTLY less expensive to hire a lawyer and prevent errors.
Once an error is made, the cost is astronomical to fix it.
The last jury trial I did was a game development gone bad, and I represented the developer trying to get paid.
We won and the jury gave us 100\% .
. .
but since that time, I have devoted the last 15 years to doing only transactional software development law and licensing.
Please find a lawyer and pay them for some advice.
There are things you can do on the front end to really minimize the likelihood that the prior game owner will sue you.A final thought - many people have suggested contacting the prior game owner.
That is definitely something to consider IMO only if the advice is that your game is likely an infringement of the prior game.
When development would be easier this way we advise this - but be prepared for negotiating a royalty deal.
In most cases, a developer will simply "design around" the prior intellectual property and not seek permission.
However, depending on the IP owner, sometimes permission is easy (for example, it is fairly easy to get permission from the estate of Jimi Hendrix; it is next near impossible to get it from the estate of Jim Morrison of the Doors - and figuring this out is rather easy - also, a lawyer can do this for you anonymously).- mike oliver</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734648</id>
	<title>Risk it</title>
	<author>dintech</author>
	<datestamp>1263291600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Go for it and don't worry. If you make money on the game and someone notices, you might need to share the profits. Given the description of the game, that might be fair in this context. On the other hand, if you don't make any money, no-one is going to bother you with anything other than a cease and desist. Either of these scenarios will make your game more popular. See Streisand effect for details.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Go for it and do n't worry .
If you make money on the game and someone notices , you might need to share the profits .
Given the description of the game , that might be fair in this context .
On the other hand , if you do n't make any money , no-one is going to bother you with anything other than a cease and desist .
Either of these scenarios will make your game more popular .
See Streisand effect for details .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Go for it and don't worry.
If you make money on the game and someone notices, you might need to share the profits.
Given the description of the game, that might be fair in this context.
On the other hand, if you don't make any money, no-one is going to bother you with anything other than a cease and desist.
Either of these scenarios will make your game more popular.
See Streisand effect for details.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30737214</id>
	<title>Start an LLC</title>
	<author>AusIV</author>
	<datestamp>1263312120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Standard, disclaimer: IANAL.</p><p>Regardless of what other advice you follow to limit the chances of a lawsuit, you should start a Limited Liability Company to reduce your personal exposure to such a lawsuit. In most states this should cost around $100. If the LLC releases the game, it is the LLC that assumes liability. If the creator of the original game does sue, they can only be awarded the assets of your LLC (which, if you manage it correctly, should be limited to the game itself).</p><p>This will take a little bit of research, but I think it will be worth the time and money. As others have pointed out, even if you're legally clear, the original game's owner could get you into a lawsuit that is prohibitively expensive to defend. In that case you may want to cut your losses and offer them the rights to the game. If you have an LLC, they're sure to accept because the rights to the game is all they could acquire by suing (and suing would cost them money). If you don't have an LLC, they could pursue more of your personal assets as damages.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Standard , disclaimer : IANAL.Regardless of what other advice you follow to limit the chances of a lawsuit , you should start a Limited Liability Company to reduce your personal exposure to such a lawsuit .
In most states this should cost around $ 100 .
If the LLC releases the game , it is the LLC that assumes liability .
If the creator of the original game does sue , they can only be awarded the assets of your LLC ( which , if you manage it correctly , should be limited to the game itself ) .This will take a little bit of research , but I think it will be worth the time and money .
As others have pointed out , even if you 're legally clear , the original game 's owner could get you into a lawsuit that is prohibitively expensive to defend .
In that case you may want to cut your losses and offer them the rights to the game .
If you have an LLC , they 're sure to accept because the rights to the game is all they could acquire by suing ( and suing would cost them money ) .
If you do n't have an LLC , they could pursue more of your personal assets as damages .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Standard, disclaimer: IANAL.Regardless of what other advice you follow to limit the chances of a lawsuit, you should start a Limited Liability Company to reduce your personal exposure to such a lawsuit.
In most states this should cost around $100.
If the LLC releases the game, it is the LLC that assumes liability.
If the creator of the original game does sue, they can only be awarded the assets of your LLC (which, if you manage it correctly, should be limited to the game itself).This will take a little bit of research, but I think it will be worth the time and money.
As others have pointed out, even if you're legally clear, the original game's owner could get you into a lawsuit that is prohibitively expensive to defend.
In that case you may want to cut your losses and offer them the rights to the game.
If you have an LLC, they're sure to accept because the rights to the game is all they could acquire by suing (and suing would cost them money).
If you don't have an LLC, they could pursue more of your personal assets as damages.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735546</id>
	<title>Re:Assassinate the original owners</title>
	<author>Whalou</author>
	<datestamp>1263301980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Once they're all dead, they'll be no-one left to sue you.</p></div></blockquote><p>
Are you an illawyer?  Is this official illegal advice?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Once they 're all dead , they 'll be no-one left to sue you .
Are you an illawyer ?
Is this official illegal advice ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Once they're all dead, they'll be no-one left to sue you.
Are you an illawyer?
Is this official illegal advice?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734658</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30738862</id>
	<title>Re:Risk it</title>
	<author>Caraig</author>
	<datestamp>1263318180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you go this route, incorporate yourself first to protect your family's assets, your home and vehicle, and everything else you need to live.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you go this route , incorporate yourself first to protect your family 's assets , your home and vehicle , and everything else you need to live .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you go this route, incorporate yourself first to protect your family's assets, your home and vehicle, and everything else you need to live.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734648</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30747524</id>
	<title>IAAL</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263321780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unlike some here, I am a lawyer.  That said, most lawyers will shy away from giving you legal advice on a public forum like this.  There are several reasons for this:</p><p>1)  A good lawyer will need to see the original game and your game before being able to give any advice on this issue.  What you see as substantially similar, might not be or may be similar to a lawyer.<br>2)  Explaining to you every element and then having you interpret it incorrectly will put the lawyer in a position of liability if you are wrong and get in trouble.<br>3)  Everyone else that reads the lawyer's advice will probably interpret it wrong and the lawyer will get it wrong also.</p><p>That all said.  It does not have to be "extremely expensive" to have a lawyer figure this out.  In fact, contact your local law school and see if they have an IP clinic that can help you out with this question.  A lot of law schools do and would be glad to give you this service for low if not no cost.</p><p>Furthermore, if I was in your shoes, I would be very careful about infringement and the best advice given to you so far is to contact the current copyright holder and ask for permission.  You will be surprised how often copyright holders will nicely grant permission depending on your circumstances.  The person who advised you to not ask because that will give you plausible deniability - because "I did not know I was infringing your honor!" - is full of crap.  Copyright infringement does not have a clause that requires knowledge and your awareness of the original game (as shown here and by the similarity of your games) will establish that already.  Asking the copyright holder will, if anything, show you made a good faith effort to obtain permission - even if you did not need it.</p><p>Good luck, and in the future remember that free legal advice is worth what you paid for it.</p><p>PS:  You are correct, I am not going to identify myself because I do</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unlike some here , I am a lawyer .
That said , most lawyers will shy away from giving you legal advice on a public forum like this .
There are several reasons for this : 1 ) A good lawyer will need to see the original game and your game before being able to give any advice on this issue .
What you see as substantially similar , might not be or may be similar to a lawyer.2 ) Explaining to you every element and then having you interpret it incorrectly will put the lawyer in a position of liability if you are wrong and get in trouble.3 ) Everyone else that reads the lawyer 's advice will probably interpret it wrong and the lawyer will get it wrong also.That all said .
It does not have to be " extremely expensive " to have a lawyer figure this out .
In fact , contact your local law school and see if they have an IP clinic that can help you out with this question .
A lot of law schools do and would be glad to give you this service for low if not no cost.Furthermore , if I was in your shoes , I would be very careful about infringement and the best advice given to you so far is to contact the current copyright holder and ask for permission .
You will be surprised how often copyright holders will nicely grant permission depending on your circumstances .
The person who advised you to not ask because that will give you plausible deniability - because " I did not know I was infringing your honor !
" - is full of crap .
Copyright infringement does not have a clause that requires knowledge and your awareness of the original game ( as shown here and by the similarity of your games ) will establish that already .
Asking the copyright holder will , if anything , show you made a good faith effort to obtain permission - even if you did not need it.Good luck , and in the future remember that free legal advice is worth what you paid for it.PS : You are correct , I am not going to identify myself because I do</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unlike some here, I am a lawyer.
That said, most lawyers will shy away from giving you legal advice on a public forum like this.
There are several reasons for this:1)  A good lawyer will need to see the original game and your game before being able to give any advice on this issue.
What you see as substantially similar, might not be or may be similar to a lawyer.2)  Explaining to you every element and then having you interpret it incorrectly will put the lawyer in a position of liability if you are wrong and get in trouble.3)  Everyone else that reads the lawyer's advice will probably interpret it wrong and the lawyer will get it wrong also.That all said.
It does not have to be "extremely expensive" to have a lawyer figure this out.
In fact, contact your local law school and see if they have an IP clinic that can help you out with this question.
A lot of law schools do and would be glad to give you this service for low if not no cost.Furthermore, if I was in your shoes, I would be very careful about infringement and the best advice given to you so far is to contact the current copyright holder and ask for permission.
You will be surprised how often copyright holders will nicely grant permission depending on your circumstances.
The person who advised you to not ask because that will give you plausible deniability - because "I did not know I was infringing your honor!
" - is full of crap.
Copyright infringement does not have a clause that requires knowledge and your awareness of the original game (as shown here and by the similarity of your games) will establish that already.
Asking the copyright holder will, if anything, show you made a good faith effort to obtain permission - even if you did not need it.Good luck, and in the future remember that free legal advice is worth what you paid for it.PS:  You are correct, I am not going to identify myself because I do</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735108</id>
	<title>Re:Risk it</title>
	<author>Zadaz</author>
	<datestamp>1263297480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>"On the other hand, if you don't make any money, no-one is going to bother you with anything other than a cease and desist."</p></div></blockquote><p>This is entirely false and shows the problem with asking for legal advice from random strangers on the Internet.  If a company feels that you're damaging their trademark, image, etc, they'll sue you for damages, even if you have never made a dime. And they can win money you don't have.</p><p>If you have a question for a lawyer and you can't afford one, stop what you're doing.  It's that simple.</p><p>The OP says:</p><blockquote><div><p>" The original game has no trademark or software patent associated with it..."</p></div></blockquote><p>How do you know?  Did you just type "obscure game" into the USPTO's web site?  Or did you have someone who knows what they hell they're doing to a trademark and patent search.  I suspect it's the former because the latter costs money, which you complained about not having, and can be done by an attorney who could also answer your questions.</p><p>The OP continues</p><blockquote><div><p>"...my clone isn't infringing on the original's copyright in any way (all the programming and artwork is original)"</p></div></blockquote><p>And this is why you're in deep crap, you have a limited and incorrect idea of what copyright is.</p><p>Oh, and hey, you're not making an iPhone game are you?  Because if you are, when you go to publish your game you'll see the checkboxes for all those other countries, so hey, why not publish them there too?  Bigger audience, more money, right?  Or at least bigger potential legal risk.  Copyrights, trademarks, patents, and intellectual property law are different in different countries, and lately the US has been willing to cooperate with litigious foreigners.</p><p>Note that I'm blindly assuming you're in the US.  That's because you left the all important "what jurisdiction I'm in" information off your question.  Just another sign of your ignorance and why you really really need to find the money for a lawyer.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" On the other hand , if you do n't make any money , no-one is going to bother you with anything other than a cease and desist .
" This is entirely false and shows the problem with asking for legal advice from random strangers on the Internet .
If a company feels that you 're damaging their trademark , image , etc , they 'll sue you for damages , even if you have never made a dime .
And they can win money you do n't have.If you have a question for a lawyer and you ca n't afford one , stop what you 're doing .
It 's that simple.The OP says : " The original game has no trademark or software patent associated with it... " How do you know ?
Did you just type " obscure game " into the USPTO 's web site ?
Or did you have someone who knows what they hell they 're doing to a trademark and patent search .
I suspect it 's the former because the latter costs money , which you complained about not having , and can be done by an attorney who could also answer your questions.The OP continues " ...my clone is n't infringing on the original 's copyright in any way ( all the programming and artwork is original ) " And this is why you 're in deep crap , you have a limited and incorrect idea of what copyright is.Oh , and hey , you 're not making an iPhone game are you ?
Because if you are , when you go to publish your game you 'll see the checkboxes for all those other countries , so hey , why not publish them there too ?
Bigger audience , more money , right ?
Or at least bigger potential legal risk .
Copyrights , trademarks , patents , and intellectual property law are different in different countries , and lately the US has been willing to cooperate with litigious foreigners.Note that I 'm blindly assuming you 're in the US .
That 's because you left the all important " what jurisdiction I 'm in " information off your question .
Just another sign of your ignorance and why you really really need to find the money for a lawyer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"On the other hand, if you don't make any money, no-one is going to bother you with anything other than a cease and desist.
"This is entirely false and shows the problem with asking for legal advice from random strangers on the Internet.
If a company feels that you're damaging their trademark, image, etc, they'll sue you for damages, even if you have never made a dime.
And they can win money you don't have.If you have a question for a lawyer and you can't afford one, stop what you're doing.
It's that simple.The OP says:" The original game has no trademark or software patent associated with it..."How do you know?
Did you just type "obscure game" into the USPTO's web site?
Or did you have someone who knows what they hell they're doing to a trademark and patent search.
I suspect it's the former because the latter costs money, which you complained about not having, and can be done by an attorney who could also answer your questions.The OP continues"...my clone isn't infringing on the original's copyright in any way (all the programming and artwork is original)"And this is why you're in deep crap, you have a limited and incorrect idea of what copyright is.Oh, and hey, you're not making an iPhone game are you?
Because if you are, when you go to publish your game you'll see the checkboxes for all those other countries, so hey, why not publish them there too?
Bigger audience, more money, right?
Or at least bigger potential legal risk.
Copyrights, trademarks, patents, and intellectual property law are different in different countries, and lately the US has been willing to cooperate with litigious foreigners.Note that I'm blindly assuming you're in the US.
That's because you left the all important "what jurisdiction I'm in" information off your question.
Just another sign of your ignorance and why you really really need to find the money for a lawyer.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734648</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735054</id>
	<title>Re:You can't</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263296880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Even a lawyer can't give you anything approaching certainty. Laws sometimes conflict with each other and/or reality, and even when they don't judges have been known to misinterpret laws so grossly that you might think their native language is Sanskrit or something. The safest way to go is to try to make as sure as you possibly can that the law will not get involved in any way shape or form. Publish anonymously on the internet, on a host in another jurisdiction (both from yourself and the original authors) and don't use your real name and preferably not your computer. The worst that is likely to happen is that it gets taken down. Shit would suck, but your life wouldn't trashed. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't intend to make money from the project, but if I go by the way the question was asked, this is one of those fan hobby projects that is done solely for the sake of auld lang syne anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Even a lawyer ca n't give you anything approaching certainty .
Laws sometimes conflict with each other and/or reality , and even when they do n't judges have been known to misinterpret laws so grossly that you might think their native language is Sanskrit or something .
The safest way to go is to try to make as sure as you possibly can that the law will not get involved in any way shape or form .
Publish anonymously on the internet , on a host in another jurisdiction ( both from yourself and the original authors ) and do n't use your real name and preferably not your computer .
The worst that is likely to happen is that it gets taken down .
Shit would suck , but your life would n't trashed .
Of course , I 'm assuming that you do n't intend to make money from the project , but if I go by the way the question was asked , this is one of those fan hobby projects that is done solely for the sake of auld lang syne anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even a lawyer can't give you anything approaching certainty.
Laws sometimes conflict with each other and/or reality, and even when they don't judges have been known to misinterpret laws so grossly that you might think their native language is Sanskrit or something.
The safest way to go is to try to make as sure as you possibly can that the law will not get involved in any way shape or form.
Publish anonymously on the internet, on a host in another jurisdiction (both from yourself and the original authors) and don't use your real name and preferably not your computer.
The worst that is likely to happen is that it gets taken down.
Shit would suck, but your life wouldn't trashed.
Of course, I'm assuming that you don't intend to make money from the project, but if I go by the way the question was asked, this is one of those fan hobby projects that is done solely for the sake of auld lang syne anyway.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734650</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30744048</id>
	<title>Re:Laws have become horribly, horribly complex</title>
	<author>Boronx</author>
	<datestamp>1263297120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This nation was deliberately designed by lawyers for lawyers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This nation was deliberately designed by lawyers for lawyers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This nation was deliberately designed by lawyers for lawyers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30736342</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30737648</id>
	<title>Re:PlanetMULE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263313980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually they were blessed. if you see the ozark softscape site you will note that the kids blessed the developer to continue on Dad's work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually they were blessed .
if you see the ozark softscape site you will note that the kids blessed the developer to continue on Dad 's work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually they were blessed.
if you see the ozark softscape site you will note that the kids blessed the developer to continue on Dad's work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734664</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735680</id>
	<title>Just hire a lawyer for a consultation</title>
	<author>MikeRT</author>
	<datestamp>1263303540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you find a competent, reputable IP attorney, it shouldn't cost more than $500 to sit down with them for a 1 hour consultation. I got a 1.5 hour consultation with an outstanding, very in-demand real estate attorney on the outskirts of metropolitan DC for $400. You don't need to <strong>retain his services</strong>, just get him to go over your plan and tell you what he thinks is your risk.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you find a competent , reputable IP attorney , it should n't cost more than $ 500 to sit down with them for a 1 hour consultation .
I got a 1.5 hour consultation with an outstanding , very in-demand real estate attorney on the outskirts of metropolitan DC for $ 400 .
You do n't need to retain his services , just get him to go over your plan and tell you what he thinks is your risk .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you find a competent, reputable IP attorney, it shouldn't cost more than $500 to sit down with them for a 1 hour consultation.
I got a 1.5 hour consultation with an outstanding, very in-demand real estate attorney on the outskirts of metropolitan DC for $400.
You don't need to retain his services, just get him to go over your plan and tell you what he thinks is your risk.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30753478</id>
	<title>I had a similar experience...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263409680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I remade an old game and called it something else. After a few months I was contacted by the owners of the original IP and asked to stop selling it. I think I could win if I really fought it, but it's certainly not worth it for the few bucks I got per copy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I remade an old game and called it something else .
After a few months I was contacted by the owners of the original IP and asked to stop selling it .
I think I could win if I really fought it , but it 's certainly not worth it for the few bucks I got per copy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I remade an old game and called it something else.
After a few months I was contacted by the owners of the original IP and asked to stop selling it.
I think I could win if I really fought it, but it's certainly not worth it for the few bucks I got per copy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30779706</id>
	<title>Burn your PC and take on a new ID</title>
	<author>RLW</author>
	<datestamp>1263575280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Asking for permission or lawyering up are good options. But if you just want to put it out there do this:<br> <br>

First, rename your game. Make it something completely unrelated to what the old one was called.<br>
Second, change the play a bit more and for your sake change the cut scenes and art work so as not to look like the old game. If they used an old west theme you go with art deco.<br>
Third, once you've completed your changes then only copy off the finished game from your computer and then melt the old drives on your computer into aluminum ingots and melted slag. Or use shred: less fun but not so messy.<br>
Fourth never use this account again. Ever. Better yet change your name and move to a different state. If anyone knows you by sight and knows you used this account then consider plastic surgery.<br> <br>

If the owners of the game ever decide to sue you and they have any way to prove that you made your game from their game they will claim derivative rights or some other ass puckering term to get what they can from you.
if you do make inquiries for permission they will want to see your game so they will know what to look for if you decide to release it anyway after they deny your request.
If you must make inquiries for permission then frame your questions as though you are considering making this game and ask what would their response be to a hypothetical game that you are not yet working on: use an alias and go through a law firm so that you may be insulated so that if they say no and you want to do it anyway then they don't have your address and real name and the law firm has the right to claim confidentiality to keep your real contact information hidden.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Asking for permission or lawyering up are good options .
But if you just want to put it out there do this : First , rename your game .
Make it something completely unrelated to what the old one was called .
Second , change the play a bit more and for your sake change the cut scenes and art work so as not to look like the old game .
If they used an old west theme you go with art deco .
Third , once you 've completed your changes then only copy off the finished game from your computer and then melt the old drives on your computer into aluminum ingots and melted slag .
Or use shred : less fun but not so messy .
Fourth never use this account again .
Ever. Better yet change your name and move to a different state .
If anyone knows you by sight and knows you used this account then consider plastic surgery .
If the owners of the game ever decide to sue you and they have any way to prove that you made your game from their game they will claim derivative rights or some other ass puckering term to get what they can from you .
if you do make inquiries for permission they will want to see your game so they will know what to look for if you decide to release it anyway after they deny your request .
If you must make inquiries for permission then frame your questions as though you are considering making this game and ask what would their response be to a hypothetical game that you are not yet working on : use an alias and go through a law firm so that you may be insulated so that if they say no and you want to do it anyway then they do n't have your address and real name and the law firm has the right to claim confidentiality to keep your real contact information hidden .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Asking for permission or lawyering up are good options.
But if you just want to put it out there do this: 

First, rename your game.
Make it something completely unrelated to what the old one was called.
Second, change the play a bit more and for your sake change the cut scenes and art work so as not to look like the old game.
If they used an old west theme you go with art deco.
Third, once you've completed your changes then only copy off the finished game from your computer and then melt the old drives on your computer into aluminum ingots and melted slag.
Or use shred: less fun but not so messy.
Fourth never use this account again.
Ever. Better yet change your name and move to a different state.
If anyone knows you by sight and knows you used this account then consider plastic surgery.
If the owners of the game ever decide to sue you and they have any way to prove that you made your game from their game they will claim derivative rights or some other ass puckering term to get what they can from you.
if you do make inquiries for permission they will want to see your game so they will know what to look for if you decide to release it anyway after they deny your request.
If you must make inquiries for permission then frame your questions as though you are considering making this game and ask what would their response be to a hypothetical game that you are not yet working on: use an alias and go through a law firm so that you may be insulated so that if they say no and you want to do it anyway then they don't have your address and real name and the law firm has the right to claim confidentiality to keep your real contact information hidden.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735502</id>
	<title>The plan</title>
	<author>YourExperiment</author>
	<datestamp>1263301380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your best bet is not to bother relying on the legal advice of a bunch of random strangers on a site like Slashdot. It's still a good idea to ask the question though, as a front page story gains you a huge amount of free publicity for your project. Make sure you don't forget to put a link to your game in the summary, however, or the whole exercise becomes rather pointless.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your best bet is not to bother relying on the legal advice of a bunch of random strangers on a site like Slashdot .
It 's still a good idea to ask the question though , as a front page story gains you a huge amount of free publicity for your project .
Make sure you do n't forget to put a link to your game in the summary , however , or the whole exercise becomes rather pointless .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your best bet is not to bother relying on the legal advice of a bunch of random strangers on a site like Slashdot.
It's still a good idea to ask the question though, as a front page story gains you a huge amount of free publicity for your project.
Make sure you don't forget to put a link to your game in the summary, however, or the whole exercise becomes rather pointless.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735110</id>
	<title>Re:Risk it</title>
	<author>LKM</author>
	<datestamp>1263297480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The risk here is that if somebody doesn't like what you're doing, they can prevent you from selling your product, so you've wasted all of your investment. One example of this are the various clones of The Settlers which were available on the iTunes store for a while. They can't be sold anymore.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The risk here is that if somebody does n't like what you 're doing , they can prevent you from selling your product , so you 've wasted all of your investment .
One example of this are the various clones of The Settlers which were available on the iTunes store for a while .
They ca n't be sold anymore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The risk here is that if somebody doesn't like what you're doing, they can prevent you from selling your product, so you've wasted all of your investment.
One example of this are the various clones of The Settlers which were available on the iTunes store for a while.
They can't be sold anymore.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734648</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735516</id>
	<title>Pluggin ur gamez...</title>
	<author>soccerisgod</author>
	<datestamp>1263301500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>... ur doin it rite!</htmltext>
<tokenext>... ur doin it rite !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... ur doin it rite!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734920</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735132</id>
	<title>Re:A tribute?</title>
	<author>Xest</author>
	<datestamp>1263297660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's probably even worse because then you're basically just admitting you completely ripped that game off.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's probably even worse because then you 're basically just admitting you completely ripped that game off .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's probably even worse because then you're basically just admitting you completely ripped that game off.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734766</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30739470</id>
	<title>Re:Let me present a third choice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263320280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not only get it in writing, but invite them to join you in the development and share in the profits?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not only get it in writing , but invite them to join you in the development and share in the profits ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not only get it in writing, but invite them to join you in the development and share in the profits?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734892</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735854</id>
	<title>Why not be original?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263304920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why don't you use all of your skills to make an ORIGINAL game instead of trying to attract their audience?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do n't you use all of your skills to make an ORIGINAL game instead of trying to attract their audience ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why don't you use all of your skills to make an ORIGINAL game instead of trying to attract their audience?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30736322</id>
	<title>A quick overview of the US copyright website</title>
	<author>poingo</author>
	<datestamp>1263308040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Copyright does not protect the idea for a game, its name or title, or the method or methods for playing it. Nor does copyright protect any idea, system, method, device, or trademark material involved in developing, merchandising, or playing a game. Once a game has been made public, nothing in the copyright law prevents others from developing another game based on similar principles. Copyright protects only the particular manner of an author&rsquo;s expression in literary, artistic, or musical form."</p><p><a href="http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html" title="copyright.gov" rel="nofollow">http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html</a> [copyright.gov]</p><p>Anyone can sue you for any reason. It doesn't mean that they can win. But if they have money and they can pay fancy lawyers, they will probably find some technicality to take you out and rob you poor in the process. Live with it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Copyright does not protect the idea for a game , its name or title , or the method or methods for playing it .
Nor does copyright protect any idea , system , method , device , or trademark material involved in developing , merchandising , or playing a game .
Once a game has been made public , nothing in the copyright law prevents others from developing another game based on similar principles .
Copyright protects only the particular manner of an author    s expression in literary , artistic , or musical form .
" http : //www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html [ copyright.gov ] Anyone can sue you for any reason .
It does n't mean that they can win .
But if they have money and they can pay fancy lawyers , they will probably find some technicality to take you out and rob you poor in the process .
Live with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Copyright does not protect the idea for a game, its name or title, or the method or methods for playing it.
Nor does copyright protect any idea, system, method, device, or trademark material involved in developing, merchandising, or playing a game.
Once a game has been made public, nothing in the copyright law prevents others from developing another game based on similar principles.
Copyright protects only the particular manner of an author’s expression in literary, artistic, or musical form.
"http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html [copyright.gov]Anyone can sue you for any reason.
It doesn't mean that they can win.
But if they have money and they can pay fancy lawyers, they will probably find some technicality to take you out and rob you poor in the process.
Live with it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734978</id>
	<title>Re:I will watch this thread like a hawk.</title>
	<author>selven</author>
	<datestamp>1263295740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sounds like you're only copying the game's rules. Rules aren't copyrightable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds like you 're only copying the game 's rules .
Rules are n't copyrightable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds like you're only copying the game's rules.
Rules aren't copyrightable.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734920</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734646</id>
	<title>The real question: WOULD they sue?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263291540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>The question can not be asked whether someone "can" sue, because anyone can file a suit for any reason. And in modern legal warfare, that is a good assessment of how things go down. Instead it is a matter of whether they WOULD sue.

The questions you should be asking yourself:
-Who holds the rights over the original game?
-How litigious have they been in the past?
-Do they belong to an industry association?</htmltext>
<tokenext>The question can not be asked whether someone " can " sue , because anyone can file a suit for any reason .
And in modern legal warfare , that is a good assessment of how things go down .
Instead it is a matter of whether they WOULD sue .
The questions you should be asking yourself : -Who holds the rights over the original game ?
-How litigious have they been in the past ?
-Do they belong to an industry association ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The question can not be asked whether someone "can" sue, because anyone can file a suit for any reason.
And in modern legal warfare, that is a good assessment of how things go down.
Instead it is a matter of whether they WOULD sue.
The questions you should be asking yourself:
-Who holds the rights over the original game?
-How litigious have they been in the past?
-Do they belong to an industry association?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30736462</id>
	<title>Re:Risk it</title>
	<author>mdwh2</author>
	<datestamp>1263309060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>How do you know? Did you just type "obscure game" into the USPTO's web site? Or did you have someone who knows what they hell they're doing to a trademark and patent search. I suspect it's the former because the latter costs money, which you complained about not having, and can be done by an attorney who could also answer your questions.</i></p><p>Well, this is the problem with software patents in general.</p><p>This problem doesn't apply solely to making a "game clone" - a risk of infringing a patent on software applies to any software one writes, even if you think it's entirely unique and original. Does every hobbyist programmer run their code past a lawyer everytime they release something for free? (I'm glad I live in the UK.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How do you know ?
Did you just type " obscure game " into the USPTO 's web site ?
Or did you have someone who knows what they hell they 're doing to a trademark and patent search .
I suspect it 's the former because the latter costs money , which you complained about not having , and can be done by an attorney who could also answer your questions.Well , this is the problem with software patents in general.This problem does n't apply solely to making a " game clone " - a risk of infringing a patent on software applies to any software one writes , even if you think it 's entirely unique and original .
Does every hobbyist programmer run their code past a lawyer everytime they release something for free ?
( I 'm glad I live in the UK .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How do you know?
Did you just type "obscure game" into the USPTO's web site?
Or did you have someone who knows what they hell they're doing to a trademark and patent search.
I suspect it's the former because the latter costs money, which you complained about not having, and can be done by an attorney who could also answer your questions.Well, this is the problem with software patents in general.This problem doesn't apply solely to making a "game clone" - a risk of infringing a patent on software applies to any software one writes, even if you think it's entirely unique and original.
Does every hobbyist programmer run their code past a lawyer everytime they release something for free?
(I'm glad I live in the UK.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735108</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30738428</id>
	<title>Example of Trademark issue</title>
	<author>kde\_rocks</author>
	<datestamp>1263316800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Here is one example of trademark issue from "nobody". I made a iPhone twitter client called Nukkad (URL: <a href="http://bit.ly/Z0uaY" title="bit.ly" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/Z0uaY</a> [bit.ly]). It has capability to use Google Translate to inline translate tweets. It used to be called Twitter World. First I heard from Google. They wanted me to put up "Translated by Google" at the top of every screen which includes translation.

Next I heard from Twitter, they wanted me to change the name. All issue were resolvable. I am nobody hardly make any money, but yes the big Corporations do go after nobody even if you are not making any money.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Here is one example of trademark issue from " nobody " .
I made a iPhone twitter client called Nukkad ( URL : http : //bit.ly/Z0uaY [ bit.ly ] ) .
It has capability to use Google Translate to inline translate tweets .
It used to be called Twitter World .
First I heard from Google .
They wanted me to put up " Translated by Google " at the top of every screen which includes translation .
Next I heard from Twitter , they wanted me to change the name .
All issue were resolvable .
I am nobody hardly make any money , but yes the big Corporations do go after nobody even if you are not making any money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here is one example of trademark issue from "nobody".
I made a iPhone twitter client called Nukkad (URL: http://bit.ly/Z0uaY [bit.ly]).
It has capability to use Google Translate to inline translate tweets.
It used to be called Twitter World.
First I heard from Google.
They wanted me to put up "Translated by Google" at the top of every screen which includes translation.
Next I heard from Twitter, they wanted me to change the name.
All issue were resolvable.
I am nobody hardly make any money, but yes the big Corporations do go after nobody even if you are not making any money.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30740218</id>
	<title>Very cool question.. what I've been doing</title>
	<author>log0n</author>
	<datestamp>1263323100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've followed various game remakes/mods for a while now and I've been trying to avoid a number of flaws they usually pull.</p><p>I'm about a year in (seriously) on a 2 year long planned indie remake of a fairly popular game from about a decade ago.  I'm not doing a clone of the game so much as a reimagining/homage to the original.  Obviously it'll be free (the whole thing is being built on top of Source SDK) but I've gone out of my way to:</p><p>1) not reference the name - but make it similar enough so that people can make the connection.  Right off the bat, people want to make a Goldeneye or Dragonball Z clone, or some such thing.  Obviously, take the name will bring people in, but you bring EVERYONE in, including the IP holders.  Some entities are cool (ie: Valve seems pretty estatic over the WIP Black Mesa remake of the original HL).  Most others are not (Nintendo is a beast over their IP for example).</p><p>2) not use any resources from or closely resemble anything that could be pulled from the game.  I'm using Source SDK and one of the things I've been doing is (as much as possible) using all stock art/models from the HL2/L4D1&amp;2 games.  It's not a lazy thing (though it helps - have a background in art&amp;3d, so knowledge/ability isn't an issue), it's a CYA thing - noone can say I imported a model/texture/sound from the original game if very few additional elements are brought in.  The downside though is that yes, you will need to own all of those games in order to use the mod.  Meh, noone has a gun to the head, etc...</p><p>3) not clone the original game.  I'm trying to keep the atmosphere and general principles established by the original - ie, the stuff that made my like the game in the first place, but nothing is directly lifted (esp the story, names, etc - though of course everything will be similar).  Before I even sat down and started working seriously, I spent 2 months researching and fleshing out my ideas to make things tweaked and original 'enough'.</p><p>4) not charge anything - even donations.  If I can use this as resume fodder that's cool (which I doubt since I'm not really interested in working in the game industry - had a coop position back in the day, it was enough for me), but I have really nothing I want to gain from this other than showing my love of the original.</p><p>Good luck!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've followed various game remakes/mods for a while now and I 've been trying to avoid a number of flaws they usually pull.I 'm about a year in ( seriously ) on a 2 year long planned indie remake of a fairly popular game from about a decade ago .
I 'm not doing a clone of the game so much as a reimagining/homage to the original .
Obviously it 'll be free ( the whole thing is being built on top of Source SDK ) but I 've gone out of my way to : 1 ) not reference the name - but make it similar enough so that people can make the connection .
Right off the bat , people want to make a Goldeneye or Dragonball Z clone , or some such thing .
Obviously , take the name will bring people in , but you bring EVERYONE in , including the IP holders .
Some entities are cool ( ie : Valve seems pretty estatic over the WIP Black Mesa remake of the original HL ) .
Most others are not ( Nintendo is a beast over their IP for example ) .2 ) not use any resources from or closely resemble anything that could be pulled from the game .
I 'm using Source SDK and one of the things I 've been doing is ( as much as possible ) using all stock art/models from the HL2/L4D1&amp;2 games .
It 's not a lazy thing ( though it helps - have a background in art&amp;3d , so knowledge/ability is n't an issue ) , it 's a CYA thing - noone can say I imported a model/texture/sound from the original game if very few additional elements are brought in .
The downside though is that yes , you will need to own all of those games in order to use the mod .
Meh , noone has a gun to the head , etc...3 ) not clone the original game .
I 'm trying to keep the atmosphere and general principles established by the original - ie , the stuff that made my like the game in the first place , but nothing is directly lifted ( esp the story , names , etc - though of course everything will be similar ) .
Before I even sat down and started working seriously , I spent 2 months researching and fleshing out my ideas to make things tweaked and original 'enough'.4 ) not charge anything - even donations .
If I can use this as resume fodder that 's cool ( which I doubt since I 'm not really interested in working in the game industry - had a coop position back in the day , it was enough for me ) , but I have really nothing I want to gain from this other than showing my love of the original.Good luck !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've followed various game remakes/mods for a while now and I've been trying to avoid a number of flaws they usually pull.I'm about a year in (seriously) on a 2 year long planned indie remake of a fairly popular game from about a decade ago.
I'm not doing a clone of the game so much as a reimagining/homage to the original.
Obviously it'll be free (the whole thing is being built on top of Source SDK) but I've gone out of my way to:1) not reference the name - but make it similar enough so that people can make the connection.
Right off the bat, people want to make a Goldeneye or Dragonball Z clone, or some such thing.
Obviously, take the name will bring people in, but you bring EVERYONE in, including the IP holders.
Some entities are cool (ie: Valve seems pretty estatic over the WIP Black Mesa remake of the original HL).
Most others are not (Nintendo is a beast over their IP for example).2) not use any resources from or closely resemble anything that could be pulled from the game.
I'm using Source SDK and one of the things I've been doing is (as much as possible) using all stock art/models from the HL2/L4D1&amp;2 games.
It's not a lazy thing (though it helps - have a background in art&amp;3d, so knowledge/ability isn't an issue), it's a CYA thing - noone can say I imported a model/texture/sound from the original game if very few additional elements are brought in.
The downside though is that yes, you will need to own all of those games in order to use the mod.
Meh, noone has a gun to the head, etc...3) not clone the original game.
I'm trying to keep the atmosphere and general principles established by the original - ie, the stuff that made my like the game in the first place, but nothing is directly lifted (esp the story, names, etc - though of course everything will be similar).
Before I even sat down and started working seriously, I spent 2 months researching and fleshing out my ideas to make things tweaked and original 'enough'.4) not charge anything - even donations.
If I can use this as resume fodder that's cool (which I doubt since I'm not really interested in working in the game industry - had a coop position back in the day, it was enough for me), but I have really nothing I want to gain from this other than showing my love of the original.Good luck!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30737426</id>
	<title>because I want to attract fans of the original</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263312960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> to avoid this seems the very reason copyright law exists...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>to avoid this seems the very reason copyright law exists.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> to avoid this seems the very reason copyright law exists...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30749980</id>
	<title>how obscure?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263395700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I really do hope it's a remake of <a href="http://moon.descentforum.net/creep/" title="descentforum.net" rel="nofollow">Castles of Doctor Creep</a> [descentforum.net], right? Please include an editor!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I really do hope it 's a remake of Castles of Doctor Creep [ descentforum.net ] , right ?
Please include an editor !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I really do hope it's a remake of Castles of Doctor Creep [descentforum.net], right?
Please include an editor!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734758</id>
	<title>Decide now how to deal with it</title>
	<author>perrin</author>
	<datestamp>1263292980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>To deal with a cease and desist action you need to have guts, means, and rights - pick any two, and it may do. If you have the guts and the means you can make a lot of smoke, and they may decide it is not worth fighting you. If you the guts and are in the right, you can explain to them that you are in the clear and answer their letters through an expensive lawyer as a bluff to make them think you have the financial means to fight. If you have the means and the rights, you do not need guts (but then you would not be asking slashdot for advice, would you). However, if you have less than two of those things, you need to be aware that you are going to fold the moment that you receive a cease and desist, and decide now if that means the risk and potential cost of losing is too high to get started.</p><p>IANAL but I've been in this situation myself, and had to deal with a cease and desist at one time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>To deal with a cease and desist action you need to have guts , means , and rights - pick any two , and it may do .
If you have the guts and the means you can make a lot of smoke , and they may decide it is not worth fighting you .
If you the guts and are in the right , you can explain to them that you are in the clear and answer their letters through an expensive lawyer as a bluff to make them think you have the financial means to fight .
If you have the means and the rights , you do not need guts ( but then you would not be asking slashdot for advice , would you ) .
However , if you have less than two of those things , you need to be aware that you are going to fold the moment that you receive a cease and desist , and decide now if that means the risk and potential cost of losing is too high to get started.IANAL but I 've been in this situation myself , and had to deal with a cease and desist at one time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To deal with a cease and desist action you need to have guts, means, and rights - pick any two, and it may do.
If you have the guts and the means you can make a lot of smoke, and they may decide it is not worth fighting you.
If you the guts and are in the right, you can explain to them that you are in the clear and answer their letters through an expensive lawyer as a bluff to make them think you have the financial means to fight.
If you have the means and the rights, you do not need guts (but then you would not be asking slashdot for advice, would you).
However, if you have less than two of those things, you need to be aware that you are going to fold the moment that you receive a cease and desist, and decide now if that means the risk and potential cost of losing is too high to get started.IANAL but I've been in this situation myself, and had to deal with a cease and desist at one time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735376</id>
	<title>Re:Laws have become horribly, horribly complex</title>
	<author>Hal\_Porter</author>
	<datestamp>1263300240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I sell FUD insurance. It's not clear now if you need it, but it would be very bad if you do turn out need it and don't have it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I sell FUD insurance .
It 's not clear now if you need it , but it would be very bad if you do turn out need it and do n't have it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I sell FUD insurance.
It's not clear now if you need it, but it would be very bad if you do turn out need it and don't have it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734618</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30738440</id>
	<title>Re:Laws have become horribly, horribly complex</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263316800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the clone has a "sustantially similar" plot line, you are running afoul of the copyright.</p><p>There's a three step test that is generally used to determine infringement:  Abstraction, Filtration, Comparison</p><p>"In ascertaining substantial similarity under this approach, a court would first break down the allegedly infringed program into its constituent structural parts. Then, by examining each of these parts for such things as incorporated ideas, expression that is necessarily incidental to those ideas, and elements that are taken from the public domain, a court would then be able to sift out all non-protectable material. Left with a kernel, or possibly kernels, of creative expression after following this process of elimination, the court&rsquo;s last step would be to compare this material with the structure of an allegedly infringing program. The result of this comparison will determine whether the protectable elements of the programs at issue are substantially similar so as to warrant a finding of infringement. It will be helpful to elaborate a bit further."</p><p>I have helped out on some software copyright lawsuits, and judging by your description, you may want to seriously consider moving forward without some iron-clad permission from the original author(s).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the clone has a " sustantially similar " plot line , you are running afoul of the copyright.There 's a three step test that is generally used to determine infringement : Abstraction , Filtration , Comparison " In ascertaining substantial similarity under this approach , a court would first break down the allegedly infringed program into its constituent structural parts .
Then , by examining each of these parts for such things as incorporated ideas , expression that is necessarily incidental to those ideas , and elements that are taken from the public domain , a court would then be able to sift out all non-protectable material .
Left with a kernel , or possibly kernels , of creative expression after following this process of elimination , the court    s last step would be to compare this material with the structure of an allegedly infringing program .
The result of this comparison will determine whether the protectable elements of the programs at issue are substantially similar so as to warrant a finding of infringement .
It will be helpful to elaborate a bit further .
" I have helped out on some software copyright lawsuits , and judging by your description , you may want to seriously consider moving forward without some iron-clad permission from the original author ( s ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the clone has a "sustantially similar" plot line, you are running afoul of the copyright.There's a three step test that is generally used to determine infringement:  Abstraction, Filtration, Comparison"In ascertaining substantial similarity under this approach, a court would first break down the allegedly infringed program into its constituent structural parts.
Then, by examining each of these parts for such things as incorporated ideas, expression that is necessarily incidental to those ideas, and elements that are taken from the public domain, a court would then be able to sift out all non-protectable material.
Left with a kernel, or possibly kernels, of creative expression after following this process of elimination, the court’s last step would be to compare this material with the structure of an allegedly infringing program.
The result of this comparison will determine whether the protectable elements of the programs at issue are substantially similar so as to warrant a finding of infringement.
It will be helpful to elaborate a bit further.
"I have helped out on some software copyright lawsuits, and judging by your description, you may want to seriously consider moving forward without some iron-clad permission from the original author(s).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734618</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735642</id>
	<title>Ask permission</title>
	<author>Andy Smith</author>
	<datestamp>1263303120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Could you ask permission from the copyright holder?</p><p>Some remakes (ie: direct copies of old games) are done with the blessing of the person who created the original game. Just tell them the truth: you like their game and you want to make a modern version of it. They may say yes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Could you ask permission from the copyright holder ? Some remakes ( ie : direct copies of old games ) are done with the blessing of the person who created the original game .
Just tell them the truth : you like their game and you want to make a modern version of it .
They may say yes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Could you ask permission from the copyright holder?Some remakes (ie: direct copies of old games) are done with the blessing of the person who created the original game.
Just tell them the truth: you like their game and you want to make a modern version of it.
They may say yes.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30738964</id>
	<title>Re:Risk it</title>
	<author>Surt</author>
	<datestamp>1263318540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>If you have a question <b>for a lawyer</b> and you can't afford one, stop what you're doing.</p></div><p>In other words, everybody who isn't rich enough to see a lawyer should commit suicide because ultimately, everybody has questions. I hope this isn't what you meant.</p></div><p>The 'for a lawyer' portion is pretty critical.  I don't have any questions for a lawyer and never have.  You can live your life quite well without ever running into a situation where you will.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you have a question for a lawyer and you ca n't afford one , stop what you 're doing.In other words , everybody who is n't rich enough to see a lawyer should commit suicide because ultimately , everybody has questions .
I hope this is n't what you meant.The 'for a lawyer ' portion is pretty critical .
I do n't have any questions for a lawyer and never have .
You can live your life quite well without ever running into a situation where you will .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you have a question for a lawyer and you can't afford one, stop what you're doing.In other words, everybody who isn't rich enough to see a lawyer should commit suicide because ultimately, everybody has questions.
I hope this isn't what you meant.The 'for a lawyer' portion is pretty critical.
I don't have any questions for a lawyer and never have.
You can live your life quite well without ever running into a situation where you will.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735640</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30736902</id>
	<title>Re:Risk it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263310980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What a d*ck.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What a d * ck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What a d*ck.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735108</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30737768</id>
	<title>Law is a tool</title>
	<author>mithaler</author>
	<datestamp>1263314460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's worth noting that civil lawsuits like this rarely happen unless someone a) considers someone a threat, or b) thinks they can make a lot more money than the necessary litigation will cost. If you don't make money off of it, or if the old material isn't making money anymore, it's unlikely that you're going to attract their attention.</p><p>Another thing: your intent matters. If someone does sue you, and they can show that you willfully intended to make a "clone" of their product, they have a much stronger case. Hell, this Slashdot story could very well be used against you as evidence.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-P So if you are worried about that, I would avoid making reference to the original work in whatever materials (i.e. websites) you release along with the game.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's worth noting that civil lawsuits like this rarely happen unless someone a ) considers someone a threat , or b ) thinks they can make a lot more money than the necessary litigation will cost .
If you do n't make money off of it , or if the old material is n't making money anymore , it 's unlikely that you 're going to attract their attention.Another thing : your intent matters .
If someone does sue you , and they can show that you willfully intended to make a " clone " of their product , they have a much stronger case .
Hell , this Slashdot story could very well be used against you as evidence .
: -P So if you are worried about that , I would avoid making reference to the original work in whatever materials ( i.e .
websites ) you release along with the game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's worth noting that civil lawsuits like this rarely happen unless someone a) considers someone a threat, or b) thinks they can make a lot more money than the necessary litigation will cost.
If you don't make money off of it, or if the old material isn't making money anymore, it's unlikely that you're going to attract their attention.Another thing: your intent matters.
If someone does sue you, and they can show that you willfully intended to make a "clone" of their product, they have a much stronger case.
Hell, this Slashdot story could very well be used against you as evidence.
:-P So if you are worried about that, I would avoid making reference to the original work in whatever materials (i.e.
websites) you release along with the game.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30737182</id>
	<title>Re:Risk it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263312060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>why waste money on a lawyer? do you have idea what it costs?  why not mimic what the big guys do: check the obvious and if it isn't there, don't waste time going through every IP whore's portfolio.</p><p>given that you read slashdot, you should browse the home page and notice that MS just pulled office as it lost a patent suit.  Any idea how much money MS has? how many lawyers are on their payroll? how ridiculous it is to expect someone to pay 10s of thousands of dollars for an in depth IP search across multiple markets?  that is one heck of a brute force approach.  I sure hope you aren't trying to run a small business that has anything to do with IP because I'd be worried as an investor that you are squandering money trying to turn over every stone rather than building a better product.</p><p>how about a creative approach? hire a lawyer to start a small corporation where he is the only investor and have that company publish the game. At that point, if he gets into trouble, he just loses the capital in the company.  If he is smart and pays himself a salary as a hired employee, then (granted, his taxes get more complex) even with a lawsuit, he should have been able to drain enough of hte earnings out of the company in his salary to not be on the hook for his personal assets.  A small business lawyer can do this for cheap (1k) and help him work through many of his questions quickly about how to separate the books properly.  but it's sure a smarter idea than "hey lawyer guy, why don't you take this product and search every IP in every market and see if I'll run foul".  oh, and while he is at it, I'm sure you are expecting him to get it right.  we've seen how many well financed companies have no IP problems.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>why waste money on a lawyer ?
do you have idea what it costs ?
why not mimic what the big guys do : check the obvious and if it is n't there , do n't waste time going through every IP whore 's portfolio.given that you read slashdot , you should browse the home page and notice that MS just pulled office as it lost a patent suit .
Any idea how much money MS has ?
how many lawyers are on their payroll ?
how ridiculous it is to expect someone to pay 10s of thousands of dollars for an in depth IP search across multiple markets ?
that is one heck of a brute force approach .
I sure hope you are n't trying to run a small business that has anything to do with IP because I 'd be worried as an investor that you are squandering money trying to turn over every stone rather than building a better product.how about a creative approach ?
hire a lawyer to start a small corporation where he is the only investor and have that company publish the game .
At that point , if he gets into trouble , he just loses the capital in the company .
If he is smart and pays himself a salary as a hired employee , then ( granted , his taxes get more complex ) even with a lawsuit , he should have been able to drain enough of hte earnings out of the company in his salary to not be on the hook for his personal assets .
A small business lawyer can do this for cheap ( 1k ) and help him work through many of his questions quickly about how to separate the books properly .
but it 's sure a smarter idea than " hey lawyer guy , why do n't you take this product and search every IP in every market and see if I 'll run foul " .
oh , and while he is at it , I 'm sure you are expecting him to get it right .
we 've seen how many well financed companies have no IP problems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>why waste money on a lawyer?
do you have idea what it costs?
why not mimic what the big guys do: check the obvious and if it isn't there, don't waste time going through every IP whore's portfolio.given that you read slashdot, you should browse the home page and notice that MS just pulled office as it lost a patent suit.
Any idea how much money MS has?
how many lawyers are on their payroll?
how ridiculous it is to expect someone to pay 10s of thousands of dollars for an in depth IP search across multiple markets?
that is one heck of a brute force approach.
I sure hope you aren't trying to run a small business that has anything to do with IP because I'd be worried as an investor that you are squandering money trying to turn over every stone rather than building a better product.how about a creative approach?
hire a lawyer to start a small corporation where he is the only investor and have that company publish the game.
At that point, if he gets into trouble, he just loses the capital in the company.
If he is smart and pays himself a salary as a hired employee, then (granted, his taxes get more complex) even with a lawsuit, he should have been able to drain enough of hte earnings out of the company in his salary to not be on the hook for his personal assets.
A small business lawyer can do this for cheap (1k) and help him work through many of his questions quickly about how to separate the books properly.
but it's sure a smarter idea than "hey lawyer guy, why don't you take this product and search every IP in every market and see if I'll run foul".
oh, and while he is at it, I'm sure you are expecting him to get it right.
we've seen how many well financed companies have no IP problems.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735108</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30741016</id>
	<title>Re:Let me present a third choice</title>
	<author>brkello</author>
	<datestamp>1263326040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And how exactly did that long rant invalidate his point?  They still own it.  They still would sue him.  Your whole post is a pointless nit-pick.</htmltext>
<tokenext>And how exactly did that long rant invalidate his point ?
They still own it .
They still would sue him .
Your whole post is a pointless nit-pick .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And how exactly did that long rant invalidate his point?
They still own it.
They still would sue him.
Your whole post is a pointless nit-pick.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30737280</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734710</id>
	<title>Sounds high risk</title>
	<author>williamhb</author>
	<datestamp>1263292260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In my (non-legal-professional) opinion, what you are doing sounds high risk -- you are consciously replicating their expressed work (the game) and even admittedly giving it a deliberately similar title.  It sounds like there are some copyright issues -- some things about games can be copyright and others can't; your remake might be considered a "derivative work" however.  If you did wheedle out of that complaint, it sounds like you could still potentially be sued for "passing off" as you have a deliberately similar product with a deliberately similar name.</p><p>I'd advise having a look at the legal history of Scrabulous.  They remade a not-so-obscure game, got sued, won on some parts but lost on others, but are still trading (being sued is not necessarily game over).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In my ( non-legal-professional ) opinion , what you are doing sounds high risk -- you are consciously replicating their expressed work ( the game ) and even admittedly giving it a deliberately similar title .
It sounds like there are some copyright issues -- some things about games can be copyright and others ca n't ; your remake might be considered a " derivative work " however .
If you did wheedle out of that complaint , it sounds like you could still potentially be sued for " passing off " as you have a deliberately similar product with a deliberately similar name.I 'd advise having a look at the legal history of Scrabulous .
They remade a not-so-obscure game , got sued , won on some parts but lost on others , but are still trading ( being sued is not necessarily game over ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my (non-legal-professional) opinion, what you are doing sounds high risk -- you are consciously replicating their expressed work (the game) and even admittedly giving it a deliberately similar title.
It sounds like there are some copyright issues -- some things about games can be copyright and others can't; your remake might be considered a "derivative work" however.
If you did wheedle out of that complaint, it sounds like you could still potentially be sued for "passing off" as you have a deliberately similar product with a deliberately similar name.I'd advise having a look at the legal history of Scrabulous.
They remade a not-so-obscure game, got sued, won on some parts but lost on others, but are still trading (being sued is not necessarily game over).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734664</id>
	<title>PlanetMULE</title>
	<author>BobisOnlyBob</author>
	<datestamp>1263291840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>By any chance are you the guy running PlanetMULE?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>By any chance are you the guy running PlanetMULE ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>By any chance are you the guy running PlanetMULE?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30739606</id>
	<title>Re:Risk it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263320760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>"...my clone isn't infringing on the original's copyright in any way (all the programming and artwork is original)"</p></div><p>And this is why you're in deep crap, you have a limited and incorrect idea of what copyright is.</p></div><p>Sounds like <em>you're</em> the one that doesn't understand copyright.</p><p>They might get patent infringement, trademark infringement, or similar but if it's all original work then copyright absolutely does not apply in any way (other than the original author accusing you of copyright infringement, but that's just that: a false accusation).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" ...my clone is n't infringing on the original 's copyright in any way ( all the programming and artwork is original ) " And this is why you 're in deep crap , you have a limited and incorrect idea of what copyright is.Sounds like you 're the one that does n't understand copyright.They might get patent infringement , trademark infringement , or similar but if it 's all original work then copyright absolutely does not apply in any way ( other than the original author accusing you of copyright infringement , but that 's just that : a false accusation ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"...my clone isn't infringing on the original's copyright in any way (all the programming and artwork is original)"And this is why you're in deep crap, you have a limited and incorrect idea of what copyright is.Sounds like you're the one that doesn't understand copyright.They might get patent infringement, trademark infringement, or similar but if it's all original work then copyright absolutely does not apply in any way (other than the original author accusing you of copyright infringement, but that's just that: a false accusation).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735108</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734864</id>
	<title>Stand on your own</title>
	<author>Kjella</author>
	<datestamp>1263294180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Get your own name. You can go fairly far in cloning gameplay - think how much one FPS or TBS or RTS or RPG looks like the other, but don't steal unique units, characters and storylines. And while I don't approve of astroturfing where you pretend to be a customer, you can generated buzz about it. Go into every forum you can find about the old game, say this game is inspired of it. Right now I'm playing Dragon Age, and boy are there many old chestnuts of dwarves and elves and warriors and rouges and mages and the whole storyline about a blight and an archdemon are hardly original. Go for the one-up, "if you liked [old game], you'll love [new game]". Right now you come of sounding like one of the cheap watch salesmen "same same but different".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Get your own name .
You can go fairly far in cloning gameplay - think how much one FPS or TBS or RTS or RPG looks like the other , but do n't steal unique units , characters and storylines .
And while I do n't approve of astroturfing where you pretend to be a customer , you can generated buzz about it .
Go into every forum you can find about the old game , say this game is inspired of it .
Right now I 'm playing Dragon Age , and boy are there many old chestnuts of dwarves and elves and warriors and rouges and mages and the whole storyline about a blight and an archdemon are hardly original .
Go for the one-up , " if you liked [ old game ] , you 'll love [ new game ] " .
Right now you come of sounding like one of the cheap watch salesmen " same same but different " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get your own name.
You can go fairly far in cloning gameplay - think how much one FPS or TBS or RTS or RPG looks like the other, but don't steal unique units, characters and storylines.
And while I don't approve of astroturfing where you pretend to be a customer, you can generated buzz about it.
Go into every forum you can find about the old game, say this game is inspired of it.
Right now I'm playing Dragon Age, and boy are there many old chestnuts of dwarves and elves and warriors and rouges and mages and the whole storyline about a blight and an archdemon are hardly original.
Go for the one-up, "if you liked [old game], you'll love [new game]".
Right now you come of sounding like one of the cheap watch salesmen "same same but different".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30736868</id>
	<title>You already did the research</title>
	<author>MobyDisk</author>
	<datestamp>1263310920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The original game has no trademark or software patent associated with it, and my clone isn't infringing on the original's copyright in any way</p></div><p>If what you say is fact, then you did all the research already.  The only thing you can get from Slashdot is "Go ask a lawyer" or "how should we know?" or the overly skeptical and cautious "law is absurd and complex so it doesn't matter what you do, you could wind up in court anyway."</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The original game has no trademark or software patent associated with it , and my clone is n't infringing on the original 's copyright in any wayIf what you say is fact , then you did all the research already .
The only thing you can get from Slashdot is " Go ask a lawyer " or " how should we know ?
" or the overly skeptical and cautious " law is absurd and complex so it does n't matter what you do , you could wind up in court anyway .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The original game has no trademark or software patent associated with it, and my clone isn't infringing on the original's copyright in any wayIf what you say is fact, then you did all the research already.
The only thing you can get from Slashdot is "Go ask a lawyer" or "how should we know?
" or the overly skeptical and cautious "law is absurd and complex so it doesn't matter what you do, you could wind up in court anyway.
"
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30737258</id>
	<title>Re:You don't...</title>
	<author>malp</author>
	<datestamp>1263312360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>How do I make sure I don't get pregnant while having sex every day without using any form of contraception?</p></div><p>Trick question!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How do I make sure I do n't get pregnant while having sex every day without using any form of contraception ? Trick question !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How do I make sure I don't get pregnant while having sex every day without using any form of contraception?Trick question!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735146</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30737280</id>
	<title>Re:Let me present a third choice</title>
	<author>Minwee</author>
	<datestamp>1263312420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>If you're dealing with a company like Atari (who? yes, they still exist!)</p></div></blockquote><p>No, they don't.  Atari as a company ceased to exist in 1996.  The name was picked up by Hasbro in 1998 and then by Infogrames in 2001, but apart from the name, logo and ownership of a truckload of copyrights the organization currently calling itself "Atari" has absolutely nothing in common with the company Nolan Bushnell founded back in 1972.
</p><p>This isn't a question of Theseus' Ship sitting in the harbour at Athens and  being slowly replaced board by board until there is nothing left of the original, it's more like Theseus taking his ship out to sea for a wild party, dousing it with gasoline and burning it to the waterline, only to have Menelaus build an entirely new ship in Sparta with the name "Thezeus" on the prow two years later and then sailing it to Mycenae and selling it to Agamemnon who turns it into an amusement park where people pay large sums of money to play on half-finished rides and be beaten with sticks when they complain.
</p><p>The modern day Atari is the ship that Orestes built after termites destroyed that one.  And it has trouble floating because he ran out of wood before the job was done.  The Mycenaean QA department insists that the boat is good and that there is no need to patch it as any sinking problems are clearly the fault of the end users.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're dealing with a company like Atari ( who ?
yes , they still exist !
) No , they do n't .
Atari as a company ceased to exist in 1996 .
The name was picked up by Hasbro in 1998 and then by Infogrames in 2001 , but apart from the name , logo and ownership of a truckload of copyrights the organization currently calling itself " Atari " has absolutely nothing in common with the company Nolan Bushnell founded back in 1972 .
This is n't a question of Theseus ' Ship sitting in the harbour at Athens and being slowly replaced board by board until there is nothing left of the original , it 's more like Theseus taking his ship out to sea for a wild party , dousing it with gasoline and burning it to the waterline , only to have Menelaus build an entirely new ship in Sparta with the name " Thezeus " on the prow two years later and then sailing it to Mycenae and selling it to Agamemnon who turns it into an amusement park where people pay large sums of money to play on half-finished rides and be beaten with sticks when they complain .
The modern day Atari is the ship that Orestes built after termites destroyed that one .
And it has trouble floating because he ran out of wood before the job was done .
The Mycenaean QA department insists that the boat is good and that there is no need to patch it as any sinking problems are clearly the fault of the end users .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're dealing with a company like Atari (who?
yes, they still exist!
)No, they don't.
Atari as a company ceased to exist in 1996.
The name was picked up by Hasbro in 1998 and then by Infogrames in 2001, but apart from the name, logo and ownership of a truckload of copyrights the organization currently calling itself "Atari" has absolutely nothing in common with the company Nolan Bushnell founded back in 1972.
This isn't a question of Theseus' Ship sitting in the harbour at Athens and  being slowly replaced board by board until there is nothing left of the original, it's more like Theseus taking his ship out to sea for a wild party, dousing it with gasoline and burning it to the waterline, only to have Menelaus build an entirely new ship in Sparta with the name "Thezeus" on the prow two years later and then sailing it to Mycenae and selling it to Agamemnon who turns it into an amusement park where people pay large sums of money to play on half-finished rides and be beaten with sticks when they complain.
The modern day Atari is the ship that Orestes built after termites destroyed that one.
And it has trouble floating because he ran out of wood before the job was done.
The Mycenaean QA department insists that the boat is good and that there is no need to patch it as any sinking problems are clearly the fault of the end users.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734892</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30737092</id>
	<title>Re:I will watch this thread like a hawk.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263311700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>My eye is now firmly fixed on this thread...</p></div><p>In Greek mythology and later Roman mythology, a cyclops (pronounced<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/saklps/; Greek: , Kuklps), is a member of a primordial race of giants, each with a single eye in the middle of its forehead. The classical plural is cyclopes (pronounced<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/saklopiz/; Greek: , Kuklpes), though the conventional plural cyclopses is also used in English. The name is widely thought to mean "circle-eyed".
<br> <br>
Hesiod described one group of cyclopes and the epic poet Homer described another, though other accounts have also been written by the playwright Euripides, poet Theocritus and Roman epic poet Virgil. In Hesiod's Theogony, Zeus releases three Cyclopes, the sons of Uranus and Gaia, from the dark pit of Tartarus. They provide Zeus' thunderbolt, Hades' helmet of invisibility, and Poseidon's trident, and the gods use these weapons to defeat the Titans. In a famous episode of Homer's Odyssey, the hero Odysseus encounters the Cyclops Polyphemus, the son of Poseidon and a nereid (Thoosa), who lives with his fellow Cyclopes in a distant country. The connection between the two groups has been debated in antiquity and by modern scholars. It is upon Homer's account that Euripides and Virgil based their accounts of the mythical creatures.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>My eye is now firmly fixed on this thread...In Greek mythology and later Roman mythology , a cyclops ( pronounced /saklps/ ; Greek : , Kuklps ) , is a member of a primordial race of giants , each with a single eye in the middle of its forehead .
The classical plural is cyclopes ( pronounced /saklopiz/ ; Greek : , Kuklpes ) , though the conventional plural cyclopses is also used in English .
The name is widely thought to mean " circle-eyed " .
Hesiod described one group of cyclopes and the epic poet Homer described another , though other accounts have also been written by the playwright Euripides , poet Theocritus and Roman epic poet Virgil .
In Hesiod 's Theogony , Zeus releases three Cyclopes , the sons of Uranus and Gaia , from the dark pit of Tartarus .
They provide Zeus ' thunderbolt , Hades ' helmet of invisibility , and Poseidon 's trident , and the gods use these weapons to defeat the Titans .
In a famous episode of Homer 's Odyssey , the hero Odysseus encounters the Cyclops Polyphemus , the son of Poseidon and a nereid ( Thoosa ) , who lives with his fellow Cyclopes in a distant country .
The connection between the two groups has been debated in antiquity and by modern scholars .
It is upon Homer 's account that Euripides and Virgil based their accounts of the mythical creatures .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My eye is now firmly fixed on this thread...In Greek mythology and later Roman mythology, a cyclops (pronounced /saklps/; Greek: , Kuklps), is a member of a primordial race of giants, each with a single eye in the middle of its forehead.
The classical plural is cyclopes (pronounced /saklopiz/; Greek: , Kuklpes), though the conventional plural cyclopses is also used in English.
The name is widely thought to mean "circle-eyed".
Hesiod described one group of cyclopes and the epic poet Homer described another, though other accounts have also been written by the playwright Euripides, poet Theocritus and Roman epic poet Virgil.
In Hesiod's Theogony, Zeus releases three Cyclopes, the sons of Uranus and Gaia, from the dark pit of Tartarus.
They provide Zeus' thunderbolt, Hades' helmet of invisibility, and Poseidon's trident, and the gods use these weapons to defeat the Titans.
In a famous episode of Homer's Odyssey, the hero Odysseus encounters the Cyclops Polyphemus, the son of Poseidon and a nereid (Thoosa), who lives with his fellow Cyclopes in a distant country.
The connection between the two groups has been debated in antiquity and by modern scholars.
It is upon Homer's account that Euripides and Virgil based their accounts of the mythical creatures.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734920</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734854</id>
	<title>Do your research</title>
	<author>lewster32</author>
	<datestamp>1263294060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm working on a project of a similar nature for an early Julian Gollop game called Chaos: Battle of the Wizards, and I devoted a good amount of time early on in tracking Julian down and seeking his permission. It's obviously a complex and confusing process that's individual to each game, but at the most basic level there is always the intellectual property to be aware of.

Also, things change significantly if you wish to make a commercial venture of the game. As said in other comments, a free 'tribute' is a lot less open to flak (unless you're 'tributing' a Nintendo game, in which case buy body armour and watch out for red dots) and will generally be ignored. If however you remake a game and whack it on the App Store for $2.99 again, you're gonna have to watch your back (if it even gets approved in the first place)

For my own part, I finally got in touch with Julian via LinkedIn, and he turned out to be most gracious, supportive and polite, and he gave his blessing for me to continue (<a href="http://www.rotates.org/2009/05/20/the-man-speaks/" title="rotates.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.rotates.org/2009/05/20/the-man-speaks/</a> [rotates.org]). It's really worth taking the time to find the original developer and taking it from there.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm working on a project of a similar nature for an early Julian Gollop game called Chaos : Battle of the Wizards , and I devoted a good amount of time early on in tracking Julian down and seeking his permission .
It 's obviously a complex and confusing process that 's individual to each game , but at the most basic level there is always the intellectual property to be aware of .
Also , things change significantly if you wish to make a commercial venture of the game .
As said in other comments , a free 'tribute ' is a lot less open to flak ( unless you 're 'tributing ' a Nintendo game , in which case buy body armour and watch out for red dots ) and will generally be ignored .
If however you remake a game and whack it on the App Store for $ 2.99 again , you 're gon na have to watch your back ( if it even gets approved in the first place ) For my own part , I finally got in touch with Julian via LinkedIn , and he turned out to be most gracious , supportive and polite , and he gave his blessing for me to continue ( http : //www.rotates.org/2009/05/20/the-man-speaks/ [ rotates.org ] ) .
It 's really worth taking the time to find the original developer and taking it from there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm working on a project of a similar nature for an early Julian Gollop game called Chaos: Battle of the Wizards, and I devoted a good amount of time early on in tracking Julian down and seeking his permission.
It's obviously a complex and confusing process that's individual to each game, but at the most basic level there is always the intellectual property to be aware of.
Also, things change significantly if you wish to make a commercial venture of the game.
As said in other comments, a free 'tribute' is a lot less open to flak (unless you're 'tributing' a Nintendo game, in which case buy body armour and watch out for red dots) and will generally be ignored.
If however you remake a game and whack it on the App Store for $2.99 again, you're gonna have to watch your back (if it even gets approved in the first place)

For my own part, I finally got in touch with Julian via LinkedIn, and he turned out to be most gracious, supportive and polite, and he gave his blessing for me to continue (http://www.rotates.org/2009/05/20/the-man-speaks/ [rotates.org]).
It's really worth taking the time to find the original developer and taking it from there.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30737210</id>
	<title>Re:Risk it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263312120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hes obviously making an iPhone game... thats what most iPhone games are after all! Terrible clones of someone elses IP. Hell even the ngmoco guys pretty much rip everyone off and get touted as heroes of mobile gaming.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hes obviously making an iPhone game... thats what most iPhone games are after all !
Terrible clones of someone elses IP .
Hell even the ngmoco guys pretty much rip everyone off and get touted as heroes of mobile gaming .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hes obviously making an iPhone game... thats what most iPhone games are after all!
Terrible clones of someone elses IP.
Hell even the ngmoco guys pretty much rip everyone off and get touted as heroes of mobile gaming.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735108</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30736498</id>
	<title>Re:You can't</title>
	<author>mdwh2</author>
	<datestamp>1263309180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem is that any project also has some risk that someone might decide to sue you.</p><p>So with that attitude, the answer is "If you're that worried, get a lawyer or don't release any code at all."</p><p>Not to mention that this applies to real life all the time - anyone could sue you for anything that you might do. So it's surely a question of assessing the risks, and then assessing whether any of those risks might need professional advice or not (unless you're so rich you can have a lawyer check everything you do in life).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is that any project also has some risk that someone might decide to sue you.So with that attitude , the answer is " If you 're that worried , get a lawyer or do n't release any code at all .
" Not to mention that this applies to real life all the time - anyone could sue you for anything that you might do .
So it 's surely a question of assessing the risks , and then assessing whether any of those risks might need professional advice or not ( unless you 're so rich you can have a lawyer check everything you do in life ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is that any project also has some risk that someone might decide to sue you.So with that attitude, the answer is "If you're that worried, get a lawyer or don't release any code at all.
"Not to mention that this applies to real life all the time - anyone could sue you for anything that you might do.
So it's surely a question of assessing the risks, and then assessing whether any of those risks might need professional advice or not (unless you're so rich you can have a lawyer check everything you do in life).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734650</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30737410</id>
	<title>Always Maybe</title>
	<author>laserfeet</author>
	<datestamp>1263312960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The problem is also that even if you shell out the money for a lawyer at the beginning, you may still end up in court.

My Intro to Law professor (also a working attorney) hammered into us that when it comes to the question "do we have a case?" The answer is always maybe.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is also that even if you shell out the money for a lawyer at the beginning , you may still end up in court .
My Intro to Law professor ( also a working attorney ) hammered into us that when it comes to the question " do we have a case ?
" The answer is always maybe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is also that even if you shell out the money for a lawyer at the beginning, you may still end up in court.
My Intro to Law professor (also a working attorney) hammered into us that when it comes to the question "do we have a case?
" The answer is always maybe.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30748434</id>
	<title>Thank god...</title>
	<author>drkim</author>
	<datestamp>1263378960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I thought you were going to reach for a car analogy here...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I thought you were going to reach for a car analogy here.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I thought you were going to reach for a car analogy here...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30737280</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734820</id>
	<title>Re:A tribute?</title>
	<author>DriveMelter</author>
	<datestamp>1263293760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>For trademarks one of the claims people can make is that you are "passing off" i.e. pretending to be that company or in some how related to that company. Hence you should make it very clear that you are not that company/organisation.

There is information on trademarks etc at the British Library IP Centre

<a href="http://www.bl.uk/bipc/" title="www.bl.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.bl.uk/bipc/</a> [www.bl.uk]</htmltext>
<tokenext>For trademarks one of the claims people can make is that you are " passing off " i.e .
pretending to be that company or in some how related to that company .
Hence you should make it very clear that you are not that company/organisation .
There is information on trademarks etc at the British Library IP Centre http : //www.bl.uk/bipc/ [ www.bl.uk ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For trademarks one of the claims people can make is that you are "passing off" i.e.
pretending to be that company or in some how related to that company.
Hence you should make it very clear that you are not that company/organisation.
There is information on trademarks etc at the British Library IP Centre

http://www.bl.uk/bipc/ [www.bl.uk]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734766</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30741376</id>
	<title>But the law can put you behind bars</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1263327540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>get him to set up two companies: one incorporated in Elbonia that has all the assets, and a shell development company with all the liabilities. Don't contest any lawsuit, just smile, punt the shell company into bankruptcy, and set up another one.</i> </p><p>This <b>may</b> keep your creditors at bay for a time.</p><p>It <b>will</b> make you a "person of interest" to the IRS and others.</p><p>The geek as criminal mastermind is an interesting thing to contemplate.</p><p>In the movies, of course, he is the lard ass who shuts down the fences <b>before</b> he makes his escape from Jurassic Park.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>get him to set up two companies : one incorporated in Elbonia that has all the assets , and a shell development company with all the liabilities .
Do n't contest any lawsuit , just smile , punt the shell company into bankruptcy , and set up another one .
This may keep your creditors at bay for a time.It will make you a " person of interest " to the IRS and others.The geek as criminal mastermind is an interesting thing to contemplate.In the movies , of course , he is the lard ass who shuts down the fences before he makes his escape from Jurassic Park .
   </tokentext>
<sentencetext>get him to set up two companies: one incorporated in Elbonia that has all the assets, and a shell development company with all the liabilities.
Don't contest any lawsuit, just smile, punt the shell company into bankruptcy, and set up another one.
This may keep your creditors at bay for a time.It will make you a "person of interest" to the IRS and others.The geek as criminal mastermind is an interesting thing to contemplate.In the movies, of course, he is the lard ass who shuts down the fences before he makes his escape from Jurassic Park.
   </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734716</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734658</id>
	<title>Assassinate the original owners</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263291720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Once they're all dead, they'll be no-one left to sue you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Once they 're all dead , they 'll be no-one left to sue you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Once they're all dead, they'll be no-one left to sue you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735556</id>
	<title>Re:The real question: WOULD they sue?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263302040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Have you considered <i>asking permission</i>?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Have you considered asking permission ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have you considered asking permission?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734646</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30741212</id>
	<title>Re:You don't...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263326940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>you could also try to become the expensive lawyer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>you could also try to become the expensive lawyer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you could also try to become the expensive lawyer.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735146</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735004</id>
	<title>Re:The legal system is unfair</title>
	<author>Hognoxious</author>
	<datestamp>1263296280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>make programmers find new careers in disgust</p></div></blockquote><p>People will pay you to be disgusted?  I had no idea!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>make programmers find new careers in disgustPeople will pay you to be disgusted ?
I had no idea !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>make programmers find new careers in disgustPeople will pay you to be disgusted?
I had no idea!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30734660</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735640</id>
	<title>Re:Risk it</title>
	<author>tepples</author>
	<datestamp>1263303060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If you have a question for a lawyer and you can't afford one, stop what you're doing.</p></div><p>In other words, everybody who isn't rich enough to see a lawyer should commit suicide because ultimately, everybody has questions. I hope this isn't what you meant.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Did you just type "obscure game" into the USPTO's web site?</p></div><p>If I type each of the companies that developed and published the game into the "Assignee Name" field and nothing on the list is relevant, is that enough?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>And this is why you're in deep crap, you have a limited and incorrect idea of what copyright is.</p></div><p>Could you explain further? As far as I can tell given <a href="http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html" title="copyright.gov">information published by the U.S. Copyright Office</a> [copyright.gov] as well as the opinion in <i>Capcom v. Data East</i>, copyright doesn't apply to the rules of a game as such.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Just another sign of your ignorance and why you really really need to find the money for a lawyer.</p></div><p>Any idea how to raise this sort of capital?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you have a question for a lawyer and you ca n't afford one , stop what you 're doing.In other words , everybody who is n't rich enough to see a lawyer should commit suicide because ultimately , everybody has questions .
I hope this is n't what you meant.Did you just type " obscure game " into the USPTO 's web site ? If I type each of the companies that developed and published the game into the " Assignee Name " field and nothing on the list is relevant , is that enough ? And this is why you 're in deep crap , you have a limited and incorrect idea of what copyright is.Could you explain further ?
As far as I can tell given information published by the U.S. Copyright Office [ copyright.gov ] as well as the opinion in Capcom v. Data East , copyright does n't apply to the rules of a game as such.Just another sign of your ignorance and why you really really need to find the money for a lawyer.Any idea how to raise this sort of capital ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you have a question for a lawyer and you can't afford one, stop what you're doing.In other words, everybody who isn't rich enough to see a lawyer should commit suicide because ultimately, everybody has questions.
I hope this isn't what you meant.Did you just type "obscure game" into the USPTO's web site?If I type each of the companies that developed and published the game into the "Assignee Name" field and nothing on the list is relevant, is that enough?And this is why you're in deep crap, you have a limited and incorrect idea of what copyright is.Could you explain further?
As far as I can tell given information published by the U.S. Copyright Office [copyright.gov] as well as the opinion in Capcom v. Data East, copyright doesn't apply to the rules of a game as such.Just another sign of your ignorance and why you really really need to find the money for a lawyer.Any idea how to raise this sort of capital?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_0651223.30735108</parent>
</comment>
<thread>
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