<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_01_09_136244</id>
	<title>Why Oracle Can't Easily Kill PostgreSQL</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1263046800000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>ruphus13 writes <i>"Claiming that 'PostgreSQL is a FOSS alternative to MySQL and hence Oracle should be allowed to pursue MySQL' is a specious argument, according to Monty Widenius.  He fears that Oracle, or someone else, can <a href="http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/12/help-keep-internet-free.html">easily squash PostgreSQL</a> by just 'buying out' the top 20 developers.  <a href="http://ostatic.com/blog/the-state-of-postgresql-not-so-easy-to-kill">The Postgre community has fired back</a>, calling that claim ridiculous.  According to the article, 'PostgreSQL as a project is pretty healthy, and shows how vulnerable projects like MySQL are to the winds of change. PostgreSQL could die tomorrow, if a huge group of its contributors dropped out for one reason or another and the remainder of the community didn't take up the slack. But that's exceedingly unlikely. The existing model for PostgreSQL development <a href="http://blog.endpoint.com/2010/01/state-of-postgres-project.html">ensures that no single entity can control it</a>, it can't be purchased, and if someone decides to fork the project, the odds are that the remaining community would be strong enough to continue without a serious glitch.'"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>ruphus13 writes " Claiming that 'PostgreSQL is a FOSS alternative to MySQL and hence Oracle should be allowed to pursue MySQL ' is a specious argument , according to Monty Widenius .
He fears that Oracle , or someone else , can easily squash PostgreSQL by just 'buying out ' the top 20 developers .
The Postgre community has fired back , calling that claim ridiculous .
According to the article , 'PostgreSQL as a project is pretty healthy , and shows how vulnerable projects like MySQL are to the winds of change .
PostgreSQL could die tomorrow , if a huge group of its contributors dropped out for one reason or another and the remainder of the community did n't take up the slack .
But that 's exceedingly unlikely .
The existing model for PostgreSQL development ensures that no single entity can control it , it ca n't be purchased , and if someone decides to fork the project , the odds are that the remaining community would be strong enough to continue without a serious glitch .
' "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ruphus13 writes "Claiming that 'PostgreSQL is a FOSS alternative to MySQL and hence Oracle should be allowed to pursue MySQL' is a specious argument, according to Monty Widenius.
He fears that Oracle, or someone else, can easily squash PostgreSQL by just 'buying out' the top 20 developers.
The Postgre community has fired back, calling that claim ridiculous.
According to the article, 'PostgreSQL as a project is pretty healthy, and shows how vulnerable projects like MySQL are to the winds of change.
PostgreSQL could die tomorrow, if a huge group of its contributors dropped out for one reason or another and the remainder of the community didn't take up the slack.
But that's exceedingly unlikely.
The existing model for PostgreSQL development ensures that no single entity can control it, it can't be purchased, and if someone decides to fork the project, the odds are that the remaining community would be strong enough to continue without a serious glitch.
'"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30711798</id>
	<title>Re:Firebird</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1263050280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've last used Firebird about two years ago, so this may not be true anymore... but anyway. I've had two major problems with it.</p><p>First is documentation. There's no single place to go for it. Effectively you end up with the original Interbase manual, and then various bits and pieces which explain what was added/removed/changed, and you have to piece it all together by yourself (and there's no way to tell if you even have all the pieces in the first place). This applies to admin docs, SQL reference, and language API references.</p><p>Speaking of which, we come to the second point: API bindings are rather messy (the C one, at least). Much more so than SQLite API, for example. Among other things, I recall it requiring things like (char*) casts back and forth to reinterpret data of appropriate types, and it seems to make a lot of assumptions about sizes of various C types, so its portability to more exotic architectures would be rather suspect.</p><p>It also doesn't seem to be nearly as feature-rich as PostgreSQL. The core is solid, but e.g. standard function set is rather minimalist, and you end up rolling out your own for many occasions.</p><p>That said, Firebird/Embedded is a very nice database specifically for embedding, small and yet full-featured. If you ever missed things such as stored procedures in SQLite (and they actually make quite a lot of sense specifically for embedded DBs, where DB is tightly coupled to the application anyway), I would advise to look at FB/E.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've last used Firebird about two years ago , so this may not be true anymore... but anyway .
I 've had two major problems with it.First is documentation .
There 's no single place to go for it .
Effectively you end up with the original Interbase manual , and then various bits and pieces which explain what was added/removed/changed , and you have to piece it all together by yourself ( and there 's no way to tell if you even have all the pieces in the first place ) .
This applies to admin docs , SQL reference , and language API references.Speaking of which , we come to the second point : API bindings are rather messy ( the C one , at least ) .
Much more so than SQLite API , for example .
Among other things , I recall it requiring things like ( char * ) casts back and forth to reinterpret data of appropriate types , and it seems to make a lot of assumptions about sizes of various C types , so its portability to more exotic architectures would be rather suspect.It also does n't seem to be nearly as feature-rich as PostgreSQL .
The core is solid , but e.g .
standard function set is rather minimalist , and you end up rolling out your own for many occasions.That said , Firebird/Embedded is a very nice database specifically for embedding , small and yet full-featured .
If you ever missed things such as stored procedures in SQLite ( and they actually make quite a lot of sense specifically for embedded DBs , where DB is tightly coupled to the application anyway ) , I would advise to look at FB/E .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've last used Firebird about two years ago, so this may not be true anymore... but anyway.
I've had two major problems with it.First is documentation.
There's no single place to go for it.
Effectively you end up with the original Interbase manual, and then various bits and pieces which explain what was added/removed/changed, and you have to piece it all together by yourself (and there's no way to tell if you even have all the pieces in the first place).
This applies to admin docs, SQL reference, and language API references.Speaking of which, we come to the second point: API bindings are rather messy (the C one, at least).
Much more so than SQLite API, for example.
Among other things, I recall it requiring things like (char*) casts back and forth to reinterpret data of appropriate types, and it seems to make a lot of assumptions about sizes of various C types, so its portability to more exotic architectures would be rather suspect.It also doesn't seem to be nearly as feature-rich as PostgreSQL.
The core is solid, but e.g.
standard function set is rather minimalist, and you end up rolling out your own for many occasions.That said, Firebird/Embedded is a very nice database specifically for embedding, small and yet full-featured.
If you ever missed things such as stored procedures in SQLite (and they actually make quite a lot of sense specifically for embedded DBs, where DB is tightly coupled to the application anyway), I would advise to look at FB/E.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708000</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30710190</id>
	<title>Obligatory Krusty the Clown quote:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263037080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hey, they backed a dump truck full of money up to my house!  I'm not made of <i>stone</i>!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey , they backed a dump truck full of money up to my house !
I 'm not made of stone !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey, they backed a dump truck full of money up to my house!
I'm not made of stone!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707082</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30711580</id>
	<title>Re:Firebird</title>
	<author>hairyfeet</author>
	<datestamp>1263048600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How exactly is this a troll? How many outside of database geeks know that Monty Widenius owned MySQl, sold it, and now is crying poor me because he can't lock it up behind a BSD style license and resell it?</p><p>Hell the guy has put up false claims to drive petition signings (Saying RMS was on his side when he's not) has spread more FUD than SCO, and has done everything possible to block the Oracle/Sun merger, most likely hoping that Sun will end up DOA and sold for scraps on the auction block so he can get MySQL back for cheap. Am I lying? Tell me I'm wrong!</p><p>You can't because I'm not. Monty is a grade A douche who wants to sell his company and keep it too. And I don't care if he got 16Mil or 16Bil, it was still his company, he still sold it, and now wants to raise a stink after cashing in hoping to cash in AGAIN by having MySQL released under a BSD license (so he can lock it back up with his own <a href="http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/12/help-keep-internet-free.html" title="blogspot.com">proprietary version</a> [blogspot.com]). </p><p>

So why anyone on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/., which is usually against hypocrites and asshattery, and usually pro libertarian, be for Monty is beyond me. He had a choice, he sold out, and now wants to whine to mommy EU to give his toys back to him. Sorry Monty, but you cashed the check, so please don't let the door hit you on your way out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How exactly is this a troll ?
How many outside of database geeks know that Monty Widenius owned MySQl , sold it , and now is crying poor me because he ca n't lock it up behind a BSD style license and resell it ? Hell the guy has put up false claims to drive petition signings ( Saying RMS was on his side when he 's not ) has spread more FUD than SCO , and has done everything possible to block the Oracle/Sun merger , most likely hoping that Sun will end up DOA and sold for scraps on the auction block so he can get MySQL back for cheap .
Am I lying ?
Tell me I 'm wrong ! You ca n't because I 'm not .
Monty is a grade A douche who wants to sell his company and keep it too .
And I do n't care if he got 16Mil or 16Bil , it was still his company , he still sold it , and now wants to raise a stink after cashing in hoping to cash in AGAIN by having MySQL released under a BSD license ( so he can lock it back up with his own proprietary version [ blogspot.com ] ) .
So why anyone on /. , which is usually against hypocrites and asshattery , and usually pro libertarian , be for Monty is beyond me .
He had a choice , he sold out , and now wants to whine to mommy EU to give his toys back to him .
Sorry Monty , but you cashed the check , so please do n't let the door hit you on your way out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How exactly is this a troll?
How many outside of database geeks know that Monty Widenius owned MySQl, sold it, and now is crying poor me because he can't lock it up behind a BSD style license and resell it?Hell the guy has put up false claims to drive petition signings (Saying RMS was on his side when he's not) has spread more FUD than SCO, and has done everything possible to block the Oracle/Sun merger, most likely hoping that Sun will end up DOA and sold for scraps on the auction block so he can get MySQL back for cheap.
Am I lying?
Tell me I'm wrong!You can't because I'm not.
Monty is a grade A douche who wants to sell his company and keep it too.
And I don't care if he got 16Mil or 16Bil, it was still his company, he still sold it, and now wants to raise a stink after cashing in hoping to cash in AGAIN by having MySQL released under a BSD license (so he can lock it back up with his own proprietary version [blogspot.com]).
So why anyone on /., which is usually against hypocrites and asshattery, and usually pro libertarian, be for Monty is beyond me.
He had a choice, he sold out, and now wants to whine to mommy EU to give his toys back to him.
Sorry Monty, but you cashed the check, so please don't let the door hit you on your way out.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30710154</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30713424</id>
	<title>Re:It is not a ridiculous claim</title>
	<author>deniable</author>
	<datestamp>1263117480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The other biggie was that MySQL had a native Windows version early, so that any aspiring web dev could practice on WAMP and then move to hosting which was usually LAMP. The hosting providers also played their part. Combine that with a lot of literature on MySQL, PHP etc. and you have the reason it succeeded for so long.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The other biggie was that MySQL had a native Windows version early , so that any aspiring web dev could practice on WAMP and then move to hosting which was usually LAMP .
The hosting providers also played their part .
Combine that with a lot of literature on MySQL , PHP etc .
and you have the reason it succeeded for so long .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The other biggie was that MySQL had a native Windows version early, so that any aspiring web dev could practice on WAMP and then move to hosting which was usually LAMP.
The hosting providers also played their part.
Combine that with a lot of literature on MySQL, PHP etc.
and you have the reason it succeeded for so long.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707798</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708530</id>
	<title>Re:Please name names</title>
	<author>TeknoHog</author>
	<datestamp>1263064740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>IIRC, distributed.net uses Postgres, but their statistics server is down at the moment, so I cannot confirm it...</htmltext>
<tokenext>IIRC , distributed.net uses Postgres , but their statistics server is down at the moment , so I can not confirm it.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IIRC, distributed.net uses Postgres, but their statistics server is down at the moment, so I cannot confirm it...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707140</id>
	<title>And Monty Widenius knows about being bought!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263051420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>no text necessary!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>no text necessary !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>no text necessary!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707436</id>
	<title>Re:Err...</title>
	<author>TheRaven64</author>
	<datestamp>1263054240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sun spent $1bn on MySQL.  Spending the same amount of money on PostgreSQL would involve paying the top 20 developers $50m each not to work on PostgreSQL anymore (or to work on a proprietary fork of it).  If I were offered that much not to work on a particular open source project, then I'd consider it quite seriously.  For one thing I could pay someone else to work on the project full time while I did other things...</p><p>
The argument doesn't really make sense, because Oracle is vulnerable to the same tactic.  What would happen if IBM offered even $1m to each of Oracle's top database programmers to quit?  Would Oracle be able to survive?  They'd have to hire a completely new team, but they'd probably manage it.  The same is true of PostgreSQL (and other big hippyware projects).  Most of the people who work on it are employed by companies which benefit from the project existing.  If they all quit then these companies would hire other people to replace them.  You'd see a little drop in productivity, but nothing permanent.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sun spent $ 1bn on MySQL .
Spending the same amount of money on PostgreSQL would involve paying the top 20 developers $ 50m each not to work on PostgreSQL anymore ( or to work on a proprietary fork of it ) .
If I were offered that much not to work on a particular open source project , then I 'd consider it quite seriously .
For one thing I could pay someone else to work on the project full time while I did other things.. . The argument does n't really make sense , because Oracle is vulnerable to the same tactic .
What would happen if IBM offered even $ 1m to each of Oracle 's top database programmers to quit ?
Would Oracle be able to survive ?
They 'd have to hire a completely new team , but they 'd probably manage it .
The same is true of PostgreSQL ( and other big hippyware projects ) .
Most of the people who work on it are employed by companies which benefit from the project existing .
If they all quit then these companies would hire other people to replace them .
You 'd see a little drop in productivity , but nothing permanent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sun spent $1bn on MySQL.
Spending the same amount of money on PostgreSQL would involve paying the top 20 developers $50m each not to work on PostgreSQL anymore (or to work on a proprietary fork of it).
If I were offered that much not to work on a particular open source project, then I'd consider it quite seriously.
For one thing I could pay someone else to work on the project full time while I did other things...
The argument doesn't really make sense, because Oracle is vulnerable to the same tactic.
What would happen if IBM offered even $1m to each of Oracle's top database programmers to quit?
Would Oracle be able to survive?
They'd have to hire a completely new team, but they'd probably manage it.
The same is true of PostgreSQL (and other big hippyware projects).
Most of the people who work on it are employed by companies which benefit from the project existing.
If they all quit then these companies would hire other people to replace them.
You'd see a little drop in productivity, but nothing permanent.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708544</id>
	<title>Re:Widenius please move on...</title>
	<author>jadavis</author>
	<datestamp>1263064980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>By your argument, PostgreSQL is fragile because the top 20 developers could be bought out by Oracle.</i></p><p>One thing about PostgreSQL is that the leadership have developed a lot of policies, standards, traditions, practices, style, tools, and other organized structures. In the recent past this has been much more conscious -- for instance the commit-fests are a great way for new developers to join in by submitting patches and reviewing others' patches.</p><p>This makes it easier for newer developers and leaders to step up to the plate even without a long history in the project. Is this patch good enough? Well, has it been reviewed by two people (reviewer and committer) as required by the commitfest policy?</p><p>Of course hiring developers away will slow down development. But it won't be a death blow, because new people can always get involved <i>and they know what to do</i>. They know what roles need to be filled, they know what constitutes a good patch, they know how to make a release, and they know the general principles to maintain high quality. They also know what to do when a random patch hits the list by an unknown developer, so they can make progress and rebuild the community.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>By your argument , PostgreSQL is fragile because the top 20 developers could be bought out by Oracle.One thing about PostgreSQL is that the leadership have developed a lot of policies , standards , traditions , practices , style , tools , and other organized structures .
In the recent past this has been much more conscious -- for instance the commit-fests are a great way for new developers to join in by submitting patches and reviewing others ' patches.This makes it easier for newer developers and leaders to step up to the plate even without a long history in the project .
Is this patch good enough ?
Well , has it been reviewed by two people ( reviewer and committer ) as required by the commitfest policy ? Of course hiring developers away will slow down development .
But it wo n't be a death blow , because new people can always get involved and they know what to do .
They know what roles need to be filled , they know what constitutes a good patch , they know how to make a release , and they know the general principles to maintain high quality .
They also know what to do when a random patch hits the list by an unknown developer , so they can make progress and rebuild the community .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>By your argument, PostgreSQL is fragile because the top 20 developers could be bought out by Oracle.One thing about PostgreSQL is that the leadership have developed a lot of policies, standards, traditions, practices, style, tools, and other organized structures.
In the recent past this has been much more conscious -- for instance the commit-fests are a great way for new developers to join in by submitting patches and reviewing others' patches.This makes it easier for newer developers and leaders to step up to the plate even without a long history in the project.
Is this patch good enough?
Well, has it been reviewed by two people (reviewer and committer) as required by the commitfest policy?Of course hiring developers away will slow down development.
But it won't be a death blow, because new people can always get involved and they know what to do.
They know what roles need to be filled, they know what constitutes a good patch, they know how to make a release, and they know the general principles to maintain high quality.
They also know what to do when a random patch hits the list by an unknown developer, so they can make progress and rebuild the community.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707082</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708922</id>
	<title>Re:Because it's open source and they can't control</title>
	<author>jeremyp</author>
	<datestamp>1263068220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>DUH!</p><p>Some people don't do it for the money. You can't buy them. Ever.</p><p>For me it's like that: I have a goal that I see as the point of my existence.</p></div><p>Yes, well these people would be being paid to give up working on a database server.   If your goal in life is to work on a database server, you probably need to get out more.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>DUH ! Some people do n't do it for the money .
You ca n't buy them .
Ever.For me it 's like that : I have a goal that I see as the point of my existence.Yes , well these people would be being paid to give up working on a database server .
If your goal in life is to work on a database server , you probably need to get out more .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>DUH!Some people don't do it for the money.
You can't buy them.
Ever.For me it's like that: I have a goal that I see as the point of my existence.Yes, well these people would be being paid to give up working on a database server.
If your goal in life is to work on a database server, you probably need to get out more.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707256</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707102</id>
	<title>Let me say this as a developer, contributor,</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263051000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>webmaster, publisher, community leader, administrator.</p><p>if anything 'bad' happens to mysql, heads will roll.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>webmaster , publisher , community leader , administrator.if anything 'bad ' happens to mysql , heads will roll .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>webmaster, publisher, community leader, administrator.if anything 'bad' happens to mysql, heads will roll.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708460</id>
	<title>Desperate campaign</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263064260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Monty is a joke, fraudster or desperate, and we should not let people like him get too much space. Look at what he writes:</p><p>"Q: Are MySQL and Oracle really competing products? A: Yes. To be fair, they don't compete for all applications and it's in many cases prohibitively expensive, risky and time-consuming to migrate an old Oracle application to work on MySQL.[...]"</p><p>I would say that this is the understatement of the year (and it is just the beginning of January). To be REALLY fair, they don't compete for MANY applications at all, considering the whole spectrum of applications relying on a (R)DBMs. His comparing MySQL to Oracle is plain stupidity and shows that he either is ignorant, uneducated or just trying to fool gullible people. He should feel ashamed. It puts his whole campaign in ridicule to people that knows more than the masses he so desperately tries to control.</p><p>I had to suppress my laughter when I read his claim that PostgreSQL isn't an alternative to MySQL (but apparently Oracle was!). The three reasons were 1) different feature sets and support from various applications 2) no single strong company backing it, and 3) the PostgreSQL market is also dominated by Enterprise DB</p><p>The first part of claim one (feature sets) are pure bs. PostgreSQL is closer to Oracle RDBMs that any current incarnation of MySQL. Thus if he considers MySQL and Oracle in the same league, by his method reasoning, PostgreSQL is too (I disagree, I consider Oracle to be in an entirely different playground). Claim 2 and 3 clashes somewhat and claim 2 is also plain stupid.</p><p>HOW MANY users actually USES the support and backing of the commercial MySQL (not given away freely) and how many turn to the community for free support (something PostgreSQL also provides through its community). I am willing to bet huge on that the vast majority of MySQL installations out there NEVER has been in contact with the commercial MySQL-support and never will... ever. Period.</p><p>So I call on Montys claims and say that it is a lot of FUD from someone playing people for his own personal agenda. He has delusions of grandeur and wants to make himself more important than he is.</p><p>I would be sorry if Oracle killed off MySQL since I use it in some projects where I am prohibited from using a more competent DBMs. But hearing these biased rants week after week makes me want to start a counter-campaign to Montys just for the sake of it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Monty is a joke , fraudster or desperate , and we should not let people like him get too much space .
Look at what he writes : " Q : Are MySQL and Oracle really competing products ?
A : Yes .
To be fair , they do n't compete for all applications and it 's in many cases prohibitively expensive , risky and time-consuming to migrate an old Oracle application to work on MySQL. [ .. .
] " I would say that this is the understatement of the year ( and it is just the beginning of January ) .
To be REALLY fair , they do n't compete for MANY applications at all , considering the whole spectrum of applications relying on a ( R ) DBMs .
His comparing MySQL to Oracle is plain stupidity and shows that he either is ignorant , uneducated or just trying to fool gullible people .
He should feel ashamed .
It puts his whole campaign in ridicule to people that knows more than the masses he so desperately tries to control.I had to suppress my laughter when I read his claim that PostgreSQL is n't an alternative to MySQL ( but apparently Oracle was ! ) .
The three reasons were 1 ) different feature sets and support from various applications 2 ) no single strong company backing it , and 3 ) the PostgreSQL market is also dominated by Enterprise DBThe first part of claim one ( feature sets ) are pure bs .
PostgreSQL is closer to Oracle RDBMs that any current incarnation of MySQL .
Thus if he considers MySQL and Oracle in the same league , by his method reasoning , PostgreSQL is too ( I disagree , I consider Oracle to be in an entirely different playground ) .
Claim 2 and 3 clashes somewhat and claim 2 is also plain stupid.HOW MANY users actually USES the support and backing of the commercial MySQL ( not given away freely ) and how many turn to the community for free support ( something PostgreSQL also provides through its community ) .
I am willing to bet huge on that the vast majority of MySQL installations out there NEVER has been in contact with the commercial MySQL-support and never will... ever. Period.So I call on Montys claims and say that it is a lot of FUD from someone playing people for his own personal agenda .
He has delusions of grandeur and wants to make himself more important than he is.I would be sorry if Oracle killed off MySQL since I use it in some projects where I am prohibited from using a more competent DBMs .
But hearing these biased rants week after week makes me want to start a counter-campaign to Montys just for the sake of it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Monty is a joke, fraudster or desperate, and we should not let people like him get too much space.
Look at what he writes:"Q: Are MySQL and Oracle really competing products?
A: Yes.
To be fair, they don't compete for all applications and it's in many cases prohibitively expensive, risky and time-consuming to migrate an old Oracle application to work on MySQL.[...
]"I would say that this is the understatement of the year (and it is just the beginning of January).
To be REALLY fair, they don't compete for MANY applications at all, considering the whole spectrum of applications relying on a (R)DBMs.
His comparing MySQL to Oracle is plain stupidity and shows that he either is ignorant, uneducated or just trying to fool gullible people.
He should feel ashamed.
It puts his whole campaign in ridicule to people that knows more than the masses he so desperately tries to control.I had to suppress my laughter when I read his claim that PostgreSQL isn't an alternative to MySQL (but apparently Oracle was!).
The three reasons were 1) different feature sets and support from various applications 2) no single strong company backing it, and 3) the PostgreSQL market is also dominated by Enterprise DBThe first part of claim one (feature sets) are pure bs.
PostgreSQL is closer to Oracle RDBMs that any current incarnation of MySQL.
Thus if he considers MySQL and Oracle in the same league, by his method reasoning, PostgreSQL is too (I disagree, I consider Oracle to be in an entirely different playground).
Claim 2 and 3 clashes somewhat and claim 2 is also plain stupid.HOW MANY users actually USES the support and backing of the commercial MySQL (not given away freely) and how many turn to the community for free support (something PostgreSQL also provides through its community).
I am willing to bet huge on that the vast majority of MySQL installations out there NEVER has been in contact with the commercial MySQL-support and never will... ever. Period.So I call on Montys claims and say that it is a lot of FUD from someone playing people for his own personal agenda.
He has delusions of grandeur and wants to make himself more important than he is.I would be sorry if Oracle killed off MySQL since I use it in some projects where I am prohibited from using a more competent DBMs.
But hearing these biased rants week after week makes me want to start a counter-campaign to Montys just for the sake of it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707742</id>
	<title>The strategic effect</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263057720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wouldn't exactly  feel discouraged to contribute to PostgreSQL if I know that Oracle kept paying the top 20 developers, especially if I knew that they payed enough to keep me away forever.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would n't exactly feel discouraged to contribute to PostgreSQL if I know that Oracle kept paying the top 20 developers , especially if I knew that they payed enough to keep me away forever .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wouldn't exactly  feel discouraged to contribute to PostgreSQL if I know that Oracle kept paying the top 20 developers, especially if I knew that they payed enough to keep me away forever.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708446</id>
	<title>Widenius - What is his game?</title>
	<author>walterbyrd</author>
	<datestamp>1263064080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why is he all in a wad over this? He alleged concerns make no sense when his past actions are taken into account - unless he has some hidden agenda. He sees no problem with selling mysql to Sun, and then has a hissy fit about mysql being sold to oracle. Something is not adding up.</p><p>Some have suggested that he wants to double-dip. How would he do this? And why would mysql being sold to oracle make any difference?</p><p>His present hysteria about the future of postgresql does not make sense to me either. Is there not always the possibility of top FOSS developers being bought out, regardless of who owns mysql? I mean if you want to get all hysterical about improbable "what if" scenarios, then what if some company bought the top postgresql developers, and top mysql developers?</p><p>I'm just trying to understand this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why is he all in a wad over this ?
He alleged concerns make no sense when his past actions are taken into account - unless he has some hidden agenda .
He sees no problem with selling mysql to Sun , and then has a hissy fit about mysql being sold to oracle .
Something is not adding up.Some have suggested that he wants to double-dip .
How would he do this ?
And why would mysql being sold to oracle make any difference ? His present hysteria about the future of postgresql does not make sense to me either .
Is there not always the possibility of top FOSS developers being bought out , regardless of who owns mysql ?
I mean if you want to get all hysterical about improbable " what if " scenarios , then what if some company bought the top postgresql developers , and top mysql developers ? I 'm just trying to understand this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why is he all in a wad over this?
He alleged concerns make no sense when his past actions are taken into account - unless he has some hidden agenda.
He sees no problem with selling mysql to Sun, and then has a hissy fit about mysql being sold to oracle.
Something is not adding up.Some have suggested that he wants to double-dip.
How would he do this?
And why would mysql being sold to oracle make any difference?His present hysteria about the future of postgresql does not make sense to me either.
Is there not always the possibility of top FOSS developers being bought out, regardless of who owns mysql?
I mean if you want to get all hysterical about improbable "what if" scenarios, then what if some company bought the top postgresql developers, and top mysql developers?I'm just trying to understand this.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30711044</id>
	<title>Re:Please name names</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263044340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My company runs a ~1 TB PostgreSQL database.  It's been a champ for years.  We treat it badly in terms of some old, nasty queries that we haven't had the resources to track down and replace, and the performance has been excellent, all things considered.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My company runs a ~ 1 TB PostgreSQL database .
It 's been a champ for years .
We treat it badly in terms of some old , nasty queries that we have n't had the resources to track down and replace , and the performance has been excellent , all things considered .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My company runs a ~1 TB PostgreSQL database.
It's been a champ for years.
We treat it badly in terms of some old, nasty queries that we haven't had the resources to track down and replace, and the performance has been excellent, all things considered.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708278</id>
	<title>Oh yeah...</title>
	<author>Sfing\_ter</author>
	<datestamp>1263062760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah... keep telling yourself that...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah... keep telling yourself that.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah... keep telling yourself that...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707588</id>
	<title>PostgreSQL: a better (O)RDBMS w/ a better license</title>
	<author>AlexLibman</author>
	<datestamp>1263056160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And Monty Widenius is trying so hard to win the "communist software troll of the decade" award even Richard M. Stalinman would blush!</p><p>What he's advocating is government tyranny against millions of Sun's and Oracle's shareholders, employees, customers, and other stakeholders, not to mention the European tax-victims who'll end up paying for a socialist software industry once they entirely succeed in destroying free market enterprise on that economically and demographically shrinking continent!</p><p>Those people have a right to manage their property however they see fit - they are not the serfs of their government overlords, nor are they the slaves of MySQL freeloaders.  Life doesn't owe anyone a free ride!  Free / open source software should come about as the natural result of market competition, not government force!</p><p><a href="http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=19771" title="freestateproject.org" rel="nofollow">(More about libertarian / Anarcho-Capitalist software philosophy here.)</a> [freestateproject.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And Monty Widenius is trying so hard to win the " communist software troll of the decade " award even Richard M. Stalinman would blush ! What he 's advocating is government tyranny against millions of Sun 's and Oracle 's shareholders , employees , customers , and other stakeholders , not to mention the European tax-victims who 'll end up paying for a socialist software industry once they entirely succeed in destroying free market enterprise on that economically and demographically shrinking continent ! Those people have a right to manage their property however they see fit - they are not the serfs of their government overlords , nor are they the slaves of MySQL freeloaders .
Life does n't owe anyone a free ride !
Free / open source software should come about as the natural result of market competition , not government force !
( More about libertarian / Anarcho-Capitalist software philosophy here .
) [ freestateproject.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And Monty Widenius is trying so hard to win the "communist software troll of the decade" award even Richard M. Stalinman would blush!What he's advocating is government tyranny against millions of Sun's and Oracle's shareholders, employees, customers, and other stakeholders, not to mention the European tax-victims who'll end up paying for a socialist software industry once they entirely succeed in destroying free market enterprise on that economically and demographically shrinking continent!Those people have a right to manage their property however they see fit - they are not the serfs of their government overlords, nor are they the slaves of MySQL freeloaders.
Life doesn't owe anyone a free ride!
Free / open source software should come about as the natural result of market competition, not government force!
(More about libertarian / Anarcho-Capitalist software philosophy here.
) [freestateproject.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30711254</id>
	<title>Who are you?</title>
	<author>anti-NAT</author>
	<datestamp>1263046080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And why do you think you wield such power to make heads role? What "community" do you lead? Why are you hiding behind a pseudonym of "unity100" when you're supposedly well known?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And why do you think you wield such power to make heads role ?
What " community " do you lead ?
Why are you hiding behind a pseudonym of " unity100 " when you 're supposedly well known ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And why do you think you wield such power to make heads role?
What "community" do you lead?
Why are you hiding behind a pseudonym of "unity100" when you're supposedly well known?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707102</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707186</id>
	<title>A billion bucks...</title>
	<author>RicardoGCE</author>
	<datestamp>1263051840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...sure makes some people whiny.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...sure makes some people whiny .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...sure makes some people whiny.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708918</id>
	<title>Whatever!</title>
	<author>Blakey Rat</author>
	<datestamp>1263068220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Whatever!</p><p>The point is received gobs of money and now he's whining like a toddler. I think everybody's fucking sick of it by now.</p><p>If he signed a bad deal, THAT IS HIS FAULT AND HE SHOULD FUCKING COPE WITH IT LIKE AN ADULT! And stop spamming up this, and other, forums with his bullshit whining.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Whatever ! The point is received gobs of money and now he 's whining like a toddler .
I think everybody 's fucking sick of it by now.If he signed a bad deal , THAT IS HIS FAULT AND HE SHOULD FUCKING COPE WITH IT LIKE AN ADULT !
And stop spamming up this , and other , forums with his bullshit whining .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Whatever!The point is received gobs of money and now he's whining like a toddler.
I think everybody's fucking sick of it by now.If he signed a bad deal, THAT IS HIS FAULT AND HE SHOULD FUCKING COPE WITH IT LIKE AN ADULT!
And stop spamming up this, and other, forums with his bullshit whining.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707758</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30757162</id>
	<title>Re:I had the privilege...</title>
	<author>Jorl17</author>
	<datestamp>1263381480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>It is true to some degree that a large open-source project cannot be held without a leader. Because the purpose of a leader is not only that of motivating, but also that of <b>guiding the members of the group</b>. If there is no Leader, and I'm talking about a good leader with decent leadership skills (be those whatever you wish), there can be no direction to follow. This leads to:
<ol>
<li> Excessive group "conformism". That is: people will always be in agreement because they will most likely create internal and implicit leaders, yet being afraid to expose their opinions, even if done unconsciously -- this is common in group development, and it may be surpassed later on.</li>
<li> An elevated degree of entropy, meaning that everyone will have different opinions and will not find a way to work towards a goal together, thus failing to produce any important outcome.</li>
</ol><p>
Sure, like I mentioned, there are *implicit* leaders, but without the sense of a hierarchy. But we need hierarchy, to create different types of authority, so that we can moderate our behaviour and even sacrifice ourselves for the well-being of the group as a whole. Sure we can also do that to cover our ass and prevent getting thrown out of a project/job, but that is effectively <b>positive</b> for the group.<br>
Look at most big open-source projects, they rely on a well-defined leader, or set of leaders disposed in a hierarchical way. Heck, dump open-source projects and look at the real world, they fail without proper leadership, because a leader must motivate, direct towards a goal, sort out problems, among other things.
<br>
<br>
This does not mean that we need <i>this</i> particular leader!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is true to some degree that a large open-source project can not be held without a leader .
Because the purpose of a leader is not only that of motivating , but also that of guiding the members of the group .
If there is no Leader , and I 'm talking about a good leader with decent leadership skills ( be those whatever you wish ) , there can be no direction to follow .
This leads to : Excessive group " conformism " .
That is : people will always be in agreement because they will most likely create internal and implicit leaders , yet being afraid to expose their opinions , even if done unconsciously -- this is common in group development , and it may be surpassed later on .
An elevated degree of entropy , meaning that everyone will have different opinions and will not find a way to work towards a goal together , thus failing to produce any important outcome .
Sure , like I mentioned , there are * implicit * leaders , but without the sense of a hierarchy .
But we need hierarchy , to create different types of authority , so that we can moderate our behaviour and even sacrifice ourselves for the well-being of the group as a whole .
Sure we can also do that to cover our ass and prevent getting thrown out of a project/job , but that is effectively positive for the group .
Look at most big open-source projects , they rely on a well-defined leader , or set of leaders disposed in a hierarchical way .
Heck , dump open-source projects and look at the real world , they fail without proper leadership , because a leader must motivate , direct towards a goal , sort out problems , among other things .
This does not mean that we need this particular leader !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is true to some degree that a large open-source project cannot be held without a leader.
Because the purpose of a leader is not only that of motivating, but also that of guiding the members of the group.
If there is no Leader, and I'm talking about a good leader with decent leadership skills (be those whatever you wish), there can be no direction to follow.
This leads to:

 Excessive group "conformism".
That is: people will always be in agreement because they will most likely create internal and implicit leaders, yet being afraid to expose their opinions, even if done unconsciously -- this is common in group development, and it may be surpassed later on.
An elevated degree of entropy, meaning that everyone will have different opinions and will not find a way to work towards a goal together, thus failing to produce any important outcome.
Sure, like I mentioned, there are *implicit* leaders, but without the sense of a hierarchy.
But we need hierarchy, to create different types of authority, so that we can moderate our behaviour and even sacrifice ourselves for the well-being of the group as a whole.
Sure we can also do that to cover our ass and prevent getting thrown out of a project/job, but that is effectively positive for the group.
Look at most big open-source projects, they rely on a well-defined leader, or set of leaders disposed in a hierarchical way.
Heck, dump open-source projects and look at the real world, they fail without proper leadership, because a leader must motivate, direct towards a goal, sort out problems, among other things.
This does not mean that we need this particular leader!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707930</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707396</id>
	<title>Re:Please name names</title>
	<author>Lemming Mark</author>
	<datestamp>1263053940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not a serious company but thought I'd note that OpenStreetmap (http://openstreetmap.org) uses PostgreSQL to store data for their Mapnik rendering engine and PostGIS to query it.  They're rendering user-contributed map data for the entire world, so that's a fairly serious operation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not a serious company but thought I 'd note that OpenStreetmap ( http : //openstreetmap.org ) uses PostgreSQL to store data for their Mapnik rendering engine and PostGIS to query it .
They 're rendering user-contributed map data for the entire world , so that 's a fairly serious operation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not a serious company but thought I'd note that OpenStreetmap (http://openstreetmap.org) uses PostgreSQL to store data for their Mapnik rendering engine and PostGIS to query it.
They're rendering user-contributed map data for the entire world, so that's a fairly serious operation.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707344</id>
	<title>Re:Please name names</title>
	<author>greg1104</author>
	<datestamp>1263053400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I would like to have a list of serious companies using PostgreSQL for serious stuff</p></div><p> <a href="http://www.postgresql.org/about/users" title="postgresql.org">PostgreSQL Featured Users</a> [postgresql.org]; <a href="http://www.postgresql.org/about/quotesarchive" title="postgresql.org">Quotes</a> [postgresql.org] has additional detail about the scope of some of those.  Most people are probably familiar with names like Skype and Cisco on there, but less well known companies like <a href="http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&amp;q=NYSE:NTT" title="google.com">NTT</a> [google.com] are huge too--and they even <a href="http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/NTT" title="postgresql.org">sponsor a good chunk of PostgreSQL development</a> [postgresql.org] because it's so heavily used there.</p><p>And those are just the public record.  Because of its BSD license, PostgreSQL also gets used in plenty of places that don't talk about what they're doing with it.  For example, I've worked with financial companies that are cutting loose Oracle for PostgreSQL whenever feasible, and with some US defense companies that use <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostGIS" title="wikipedia.org">PostGIS</a> [wikipedia.org] for geographic databases.  (looks out window) I may have already said too much.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would like to have a list of serious companies using PostgreSQL for serious stuff PostgreSQL Featured Users [ postgresql.org ] ; Quotes [ postgresql.org ] has additional detail about the scope of some of those .
Most people are probably familiar with names like Skype and Cisco on there , but less well known companies like NTT [ google.com ] are huge too--and they even sponsor a good chunk of PostgreSQL development [ postgresql.org ] because it 's so heavily used there.And those are just the public record .
Because of its BSD license , PostgreSQL also gets used in plenty of places that do n't talk about what they 're doing with it .
For example , I 've worked with financial companies that are cutting loose Oracle for PostgreSQL whenever feasible , and with some US defense companies that use PostGIS [ wikipedia.org ] for geographic databases .
( looks out window ) I may have already said too much .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would like to have a list of serious companies using PostgreSQL for serious stuff PostgreSQL Featured Users [postgresql.org]; Quotes [postgresql.org] has additional detail about the scope of some of those.
Most people are probably familiar with names like Skype and Cisco on there, but less well known companies like NTT [google.com] are huge too--and they even sponsor a good chunk of PostgreSQL development [postgresql.org] because it's so heavily used there.And those are just the public record.
Because of its BSD license, PostgreSQL also gets used in plenty of places that don't talk about what they're doing with it.
For example, I've worked with financial companies that are cutting loose Oracle for PostgreSQL whenever feasible, and with some US defense companies that use PostGIS [wikipedia.org] for geographic databases.
(looks out window) I may have already said too much.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707798</id>
	<title>Re:It is not a ridiculous claim</title>
	<author>jocknerd</author>
	<datestamp>1263058320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>PostgreSQL languished from 1993-1996.  Then the developers who looked at the code decided it was best to rewrite everything from scratch.  This slowdown in development is why MySQL became more popular in the late 1990's.  Plus, it was the database used in almost PHP book published.  PostgreSQL in the late 1990's through early 2000's had a very solid codebase but very little work had been done on it from a performance perspective.  Work throughout the 2000's has improved the performance tremendously and now the core team is focusing on bring replication to it natively.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>PostgreSQL languished from 1993-1996 .
Then the developers who looked at the code decided it was best to rewrite everything from scratch .
This slowdown in development is why MySQL became more popular in the late 1990 's .
Plus , it was the database used in almost PHP book published .
PostgreSQL in the late 1990 's through early 2000 's had a very solid codebase but very little work had been done on it from a performance perspective .
Work throughout the 2000 's has improved the performance tremendously and now the core team is focusing on bring replication to it natively .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>PostgreSQL languished from 1993-1996.
Then the developers who looked at the code decided it was best to rewrite everything from scratch.
This slowdown in development is why MySQL became more popular in the late 1990's.
Plus, it was the database used in almost PHP book published.
PostgreSQL in the late 1990's through early 2000's had a very solid codebase but very little work had been done on it from a performance perspective.
Work throughout the 2000's has improved the performance tremendously and now the core team is focusing on bring replication to it natively.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707400</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707960</id>
	<title>Re:Please name names</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263059760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>PostgreSQL is used by the Indian Air Force, Indian Navy, DAE (Department of Atomic Energy), ISRO amongst other government departments in India. They just do not like to talk about it, and each of these organizations has enough budget to fork from the current code base (in case PostgreSQL is 'posioned' by Oracle), hire developers and continue development. <p>

Mysql people need to stop bitching about PostgreSQL because there beloved DB is getting eviscrated. PostgreSQL always adhered to standards, has rock solid reliability and with the latest releases is as fast as MySQL. If you are so "concerned" about Oracle, quit whining, migrate to PostgreSQL and join the development teams to make it even better. </p><p><b>

A theif thinks all other people are also theifs, that is the best that can be said about MySQL people.</b></p></htmltext>
<tokenext>PostgreSQL is used by the Indian Air Force , Indian Navy , DAE ( Department of Atomic Energy ) , ISRO amongst other government departments in India .
They just do not like to talk about it , and each of these organizations has enough budget to fork from the current code base ( in case PostgreSQL is 'posioned ' by Oracle ) , hire developers and continue development .
Mysql people need to stop bitching about PostgreSQL because there beloved DB is getting eviscrated .
PostgreSQL always adhered to standards , has rock solid reliability and with the latest releases is as fast as MySQL .
If you are so " concerned " about Oracle , quit whining , migrate to PostgreSQL and join the development teams to make it even better .
A theif thinks all other people are also theifs , that is the best that can be said about MySQL people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>PostgreSQL is used by the Indian Air Force, Indian Navy, DAE (Department of Atomic Energy), ISRO amongst other government departments in India.
They just do not like to talk about it, and each of these organizations has enough budget to fork from the current code base (in case PostgreSQL is 'posioned' by Oracle), hire developers and continue development.
Mysql people need to stop bitching about PostgreSQL because there beloved DB is getting eviscrated.
PostgreSQL always adhered to standards, has rock solid reliability and with the latest releases is as fast as MySQL.
If you are so "concerned" about Oracle, quit whining, migrate to PostgreSQL and join the development teams to make it even better.
A theif thinks all other people are also theifs, that is the best that can be said about MySQL people.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707124</id>
	<title>Postgresql probably more vulnerable to patent...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263051240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>attacks.  Oracle has got to have enough in their patent portfolio to scare off<br>commercial PostgreSQL users.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>attacks .
Oracle has got to have enough in their patent portfolio to scare offcommercial PostgreSQL users .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>attacks.
Oracle has got to have enough in their patent portfolio to scare offcommercial PostgreSQL users.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708688</id>
	<title>Re:Firebird</title>
	<author>Elektroschock</author>
	<datestamp>1263066300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Monty is the next SCOop.</p><p>Get the poor billionaire (who sold MySQL) his open source project back, as dual licensing because the GPL is crap. <a href="http://www.helpmysql.org/en/theissue/customerspaythebill" title="helpmysql.org">Sign here</a> [helpmysql.org].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Monty is the next SCOop.Get the poor billionaire ( who sold MySQL ) his open source project back , as dual licensing because the GPL is crap .
Sign here [ helpmysql.org ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Monty is the next SCOop.Get the poor billionaire (who sold MySQL) his open source project back, as dual licensing because the GPL is crap.
Sign here [helpmysql.org].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707862</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707988</id>
	<title>Re:It is not a ridiculous claim</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263060000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Godwins law, bsd vs. gpl trolling, and open source vs. closed source trolling all in one post? I'm impressed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Godwins law , bsd vs. gpl trolling , and open source vs. closed source trolling all in one post ?
I 'm impressed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Godwins law, bsd vs. gpl trolling, and open source vs. closed source trolling all in one post?
I'm impressed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707400</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707370</id>
	<title>Sod Off Monty</title>
	<author>segedunum</author>
	<datestamp>1263053700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm getting fed up to the back teeth with this guy. He must have got himself into some mental issues he can't get out of. He had a dual licensed database server in MySQL that brought in good money and had a side-effect of making it the standard database as the web expanded, which he then sold to Sun for a very tidy sum and he still now expects to be able to control MySQL's future?<br> <br>

Before Sun bought MySQL Sun was heavily involved with Postgres (still is in many ways) and they could have quite easily tried to take that project over as opposed to buying MySQL. They didn't, and they would have found that very difficult because there are a lot of different interests in Postgres now.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm getting fed up to the back teeth with this guy .
He must have got himself into some mental issues he ca n't get out of .
He had a dual licensed database server in MySQL that brought in good money and had a side-effect of making it the standard database as the web expanded , which he then sold to Sun for a very tidy sum and he still now expects to be able to control MySQL 's future ?
Before Sun bought MySQL Sun was heavily involved with Postgres ( still is in many ways ) and they could have quite easily tried to take that project over as opposed to buying MySQL .
They did n't , and they would have found that very difficult because there are a lot of different interests in Postgres now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm getting fed up to the back teeth with this guy.
He must have got himself into some mental issues he can't get out of.
He had a dual licensed database server in MySQL that brought in good money and had a side-effect of making it the standard database as the web expanded, which he then sold to Sun for a very tidy sum and he still now expects to be able to control MySQL's future?
Before Sun bought MySQL Sun was heavily involved with Postgres (still is in many ways) and they could have quite easily tried to take that project over as opposed to buying MySQL.
They didn't, and they would have found that very difficult because there are a lot of different interests in Postgres now.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707078</id>
	<title>Firebird</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263050700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And if postgresql fails there is still firebird, and all the other open source database that kick ass but are less known than mysql and postgresql.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And if postgresql fails there is still firebird , and all the other open source database that kick ass but are less known than mysql and postgresql .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And if postgresql fails there is still firebird, and all the other open source database that kick ass but are less known than mysql and postgresql.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707800</id>
	<title>Postgres is not Free! Don't be scammed!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263058320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is a thinly disguised advertisement for Postgres and Slashdot should not have posted it.<br>PostgreSQL is NOT FREE OPEN SOURCE. The developers REFUSE to use the GPL and instead have a special license of their own which is incompatible with the GPL.<br>Don't be fooled! MySQL is the only Free Open Source database and must be protected from corporate plunder at all costs!</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a thinly disguised advertisement for Postgres and Slashdot should not have posted it.PostgreSQL is NOT FREE OPEN SOURCE .
The developers REFUSE to use the GPL and instead have a special license of their own which is incompatible with the GPL.Do n't be fooled !
MySQL is the only Free Open Source database and must be protected from corporate plunder at all costs !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a thinly disguised advertisement for Postgres and Slashdot should not have posted it.PostgreSQL is NOT FREE OPEN SOURCE.
The developers REFUSE to use the GPL and instead have a special license of their own which is incompatible with the GPL.Don't be fooled!
MySQL is the only Free Open Source database and must be protected from corporate plunder at all costs!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30720650</id>
	<title>Re:Firebird</title>
	<author>dave87656</author>
	<datestamp>1263242160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What about JavaDB (Derby)? It is supposed to have good performance. I understand most, but not all, standard features are implemented.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What about JavaDB ( Derby ) ?
It is supposed to have good performance .
I understand most , but not all , standard features are implemented .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What about JavaDB (Derby)?
It is supposed to have good performance.
I understand most, but not all, standard features are implemented.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707078</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30710932</id>
	<title>Re:Please name names</title>
	<author>greg1104</author>
	<datestamp>1263043500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>At one point tracking the entire<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.org domain was done with PG as well</p></div><p>Still is; even more than that actually,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.info too.  See <a href="http://www.afilias.info/global-registry-services" title="afilias.info">Afilias Global Registry</a> [afilias.info] for a full list.  Afilias sponsors quite a bit of PostgreSQL related work, including employing some of the major contributors to <a href="http://www.slony.info/" title="slony.info">Slony</a> [slony.info], one of the most popular PostgreSQL replication solutions.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>At one point tracking the entire .org domain was done with PG as wellStill is ; even more than that actually , .info too .
See Afilias Global Registry [ afilias.info ] for a full list .
Afilias sponsors quite a bit of PostgreSQL related work , including employing some of the major contributors to Slony [ slony.info ] , one of the most popular PostgreSQL replication solutions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At one point tracking the entire .org domain was done with PG as wellStill is; even more than that actually, .info too.
See Afilias Global Registry [afilias.info] for a full list.
Afilias sponsors quite a bit of PostgreSQL related work, including employing some of the major contributors to Slony [slony.info], one of the most popular PostgreSQL replication solutions.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30709380</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30721526</id>
	<title>Let's be real</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263213240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We're very optimistic about free software. It can survive without funding. It can survive alongside superior competition. It is very resilient in every way, especially if as popular as this project is. But one thing it cannot do - is survive without the developers. Sure you can fork it, but as the guy up there says, if it had only 20 high-profile devs before there's little chance it'll gather 20 more of the same profile as those it lost. It is a real threat. The only two foreseeable solutions would be that "low-profile" devs start working harder, and those who left still try to contribute as best as they can. Unfortunately, the second one can be countered by the 'all your code is belong to us' clause in their contracts (bear in mind however, that they would have to accept it). In short, we should all look into projects where we can help (if not us, who will breathe new life into free software projects? *Someone* needs to develop them, you know?). There's plenty of learning opportunity, and we can help. We must admit most of us don't do it very often. And that's the real cause of this threat - that is, besides the fact that there's no universal commercial model which would directly fund developers. If we had the latter, the former would be eradicated immediately.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We 're very optimistic about free software .
It can survive without funding .
It can survive alongside superior competition .
It is very resilient in every way , especially if as popular as this project is .
But one thing it can not do - is survive without the developers .
Sure you can fork it , but as the guy up there says , if it had only 20 high-profile devs before there 's little chance it 'll gather 20 more of the same profile as those it lost .
It is a real threat .
The only two foreseeable solutions would be that " low-profile " devs start working harder , and those who left still try to contribute as best as they can .
Unfortunately , the second one can be countered by the 'all your code is belong to us ' clause in their contracts ( bear in mind however , that they would have to accept it ) .
In short , we should all look into projects where we can help ( if not us , who will breathe new life into free software projects ?
* Someone * needs to develop them , you know ? ) .
There 's plenty of learning opportunity , and we can help .
We must admit most of us do n't do it very often .
And that 's the real cause of this threat - that is , besides the fact that there 's no universal commercial model which would directly fund developers .
If we had the latter , the former would be eradicated immediately .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We're very optimistic about free software.
It can survive without funding.
It can survive alongside superior competition.
It is very resilient in every way, especially if as popular as this project is.
But one thing it cannot do - is survive without the developers.
Sure you can fork it, but as the guy up there says, if it had only 20 high-profile devs before there's little chance it'll gather 20 more of the same profile as those it lost.
It is a real threat.
The only two foreseeable solutions would be that "low-profile" devs start working harder, and those who left still try to contribute as best as they can.
Unfortunately, the second one can be countered by the 'all your code is belong to us' clause in their contracts (bear in mind however, that they would have to accept it).
In short, we should all look into projects where we can help (if not us, who will breathe new life into free software projects?
*Someone* needs to develop them, you know?).
There's plenty of learning opportunity, and we can help.
We must admit most of us don't do it very often.
And that's the real cause of this threat - that is, besides the fact that there's no universal commercial model which would directly fund developers.
If we had the latter, the former would be eradicated immediately.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708226</id>
	<title>The PostgreSQL project already ran that gauntlet</title>
	<author>EbNo</author>
	<datestamp>1263062280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> I once worked for a company called Great Bridge, which attempted to make money selling a boxed version of PostgreSQL. We employed/contracted with  several key PostgreSQL developers, and I distinctly remember discussions with management and at least one of those developers about this very topic. The developers had agreed amongst themselves and with Great Bridge management to limit the number of key committers who took money from Great Bridge in order to ensure the company didn't exert too much control over the project (I'm sure we would have been happy to have every one of them on the payroll). History proves Monty  wrong on this one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I once worked for a company called Great Bridge , which attempted to make money selling a boxed version of PostgreSQL .
We employed/contracted with several key PostgreSQL developers , and I distinctly remember discussions with management and at least one of those developers about this very topic .
The developers had agreed amongst themselves and with Great Bridge management to limit the number of key committers who took money from Great Bridge in order to ensure the company did n't exert too much control over the project ( I 'm sure we would have been happy to have every one of them on the payroll ) .
History proves Monty wrong on this one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> I once worked for a company called Great Bridge, which attempted to make money selling a boxed version of PostgreSQL.
We employed/contracted with  several key PostgreSQL developers, and I distinctly remember discussions with management and at least one of those developers about this very topic.
The developers had agreed amongst themselves and with Great Bridge management to limit the number of key committers who took money from Great Bridge in order to ensure the company didn't exert too much control over the project (I'm sure we would have been happy to have every one of them on the payroll).
History proves Monty  wrong on this one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707400</id>
	<title>It is not a ridiculous claim</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263053940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The sad truth is that most FOSS projects rely on one, or a handful of key people. If those people leave or are bought out - or more subtly, influenced - the project could be killed or undergo a significant change of direction. There is no guarantee that others will step in with sufficient knowledge or expertise to take their place.</p><p>Postgesql languished for years before it was picked up again. There is nothing to suggest that couldn't happen again if the top developers were bought out. Very few people aren't susceptible to a nice pay check, especially when it is paid to them for what they are doing already.</p><p>The BSD license allows the wholesale privatisation of all software development produced under its writ. That is what it was originally intended for, to privatise government funded software produced by educational institutions.</p><p>The BSD licence is only 'more free' in the double speak sense that you are free to restrict the freedom of others to access your additional code. No unlike the greater democracy of Hitler's Germany where the people were even free to vote away their democratic rights - which they promptly did.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The sad truth is that most FOSS projects rely on one , or a handful of key people .
If those people leave or are bought out - or more subtly , influenced - the project could be killed or undergo a significant change of direction .
There is no guarantee that others will step in with sufficient knowledge or expertise to take their place.Postgesql languished for years before it was picked up again .
There is nothing to suggest that could n't happen again if the top developers were bought out .
Very few people are n't susceptible to a nice pay check , especially when it is paid to them for what they are doing already.The BSD license allows the wholesale privatisation of all software development produced under its writ .
That is what it was originally intended for , to privatise government funded software produced by educational institutions.The BSD licence is only 'more free ' in the double speak sense that you are free to restrict the freedom of others to access your additional code .
No unlike the greater democracy of Hitler 's Germany where the people were even free to vote away their democratic rights - which they promptly did .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The sad truth is that most FOSS projects rely on one, or a handful of key people.
If those people leave or are bought out - or more subtly, influenced - the project could be killed or undergo a significant change of direction.
There is no guarantee that others will step in with sufficient knowledge or expertise to take their place.Postgesql languished for years before it was picked up again.
There is nothing to suggest that couldn't happen again if the top developers were bought out.
Very few people aren't susceptible to a nice pay check, especially when it is paid to them for what they are doing already.The BSD license allows the wholesale privatisation of all software development produced under its writ.
That is what it was originally intended for, to privatise government funded software produced by educational institutions.The BSD licence is only 'more free' in the double speak sense that you are free to restrict the freedom of others to access your additional code.
No unlike the greater democracy of Hitler's Germany where the people were even free to vote away their democratic rights - which they promptly did.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707930</id>
	<title>I had the privilege...</title>
	<author>Toze</author>
	<datestamp>1263059460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>of speaking with Monty on freenode's mysql channel, when he responded to my suggestion that he needed a helmet and a big cup of STFU. I asked him about forking and MariaDB, and he had pretty much the same response as in the blog linked above. The way he talked about open source, though, it was like he thought it was impossible for a large open-source project to succeed without a strong leader. He expressed little trust in the community, and no faith that an abandoned project could be picked up again. When I asked him about developers scratching itches, and solutions drawing users and more developers, he didn't seem to think it was a feasible solution. He kept defending his posts about Oracle as being about "for the users," and his motivation being to maintain choices.
<p>
I think the problem is less about Monty wailing about Oracle's calumny, and more about Monty's view of how FOSS works. He seems to think it needs heroes, and that the rest of us plebes need someone to follow before we can get anything useful done. I'll agree with him that projects need leadership, but like comments above have said, there's a difference between project leadership and making yourself indispensable. If Monty was indispensable when he left MySQL, then he was the one that killed it, not Sun, and not Oracle.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>of speaking with Monty on freenode 's mysql channel , when he responded to my suggestion that he needed a helmet and a big cup of STFU .
I asked him about forking and MariaDB , and he had pretty much the same response as in the blog linked above .
The way he talked about open source , though , it was like he thought it was impossible for a large open-source project to succeed without a strong leader .
He expressed little trust in the community , and no faith that an abandoned project could be picked up again .
When I asked him about developers scratching itches , and solutions drawing users and more developers , he did n't seem to think it was a feasible solution .
He kept defending his posts about Oracle as being about " for the users , " and his motivation being to maintain choices .
I think the problem is less about Monty wailing about Oracle 's calumny , and more about Monty 's view of how FOSS works .
He seems to think it needs heroes , and that the rest of us plebes need someone to follow before we can get anything useful done .
I 'll agree with him that projects need leadership , but like comments above have said , there 's a difference between project leadership and making yourself indispensable .
If Monty was indispensable when he left MySQL , then he was the one that killed it , not Sun , and not Oracle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>of speaking with Monty on freenode's mysql channel, when he responded to my suggestion that he needed a helmet and a big cup of STFU.
I asked him about forking and MariaDB, and he had pretty much the same response as in the blog linked above.
The way he talked about open source, though, it was like he thought it was impossible for a large open-source project to succeed without a strong leader.
He expressed little trust in the community, and no faith that an abandoned project could be picked up again.
When I asked him about developers scratching itches, and solutions drawing users and more developers, he didn't seem to think it was a feasible solution.
He kept defending his posts about Oracle as being about "for the users," and his motivation being to maintain choices.
I think the problem is less about Monty wailing about Oracle's calumny, and more about Monty's view of how FOSS works.
He seems to think it needs heroes, and that the rest of us plebes need someone to follow before we can get anything useful done.
I'll agree with him that projects need leadership, but like comments above have said, there's a difference between project leadership and making yourself indispensable.
If Monty was indispensable when he left MySQL, then he was the one that killed it, not Sun, and not Oracle.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708030</id>
	<title>Monty: Biased and not open for reason</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263060300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ever since this Monty thing started a lot of people started to bash all of his efforts with a mere comment "You sold out and now you want the glory back". I for one think thats a pretty lame comment which is probably only fed with envy. Note that I'm stating that it would be untrue or anything; just unfair since its the most obvious and easiest comment to make.</p><p>I've been spammed by Monty last year when he started his "Save MySQL" rampage and the one thing I consider highly dubious are the reactions he seemingly gets to his efforts. Note how almost any comment on his blog is positive about the way things are going and how people welcome to see him put some effort into all this? Only one reaction shows a small sign of certain doubts but thats it.</p><p>Well, I think that is something you can take into account. When I got his e-mail on my company e-mail address (which I've used to respond to a MySQL mailinglist <i>years</i> ago) I looked over the website, read his blog and then wrote a comment that I didn't agree with the way he handled his action, that I didn't like to be spammed in the way he did and quite frankly that it sounded odd coming from someone who set the whole thing into motion in the first place.</p><p>Not talking about money, fame and fortune here mind you. If he wanted some kind of security or insurance for the future of MySQL he should have included that right into the negotiations when he sold MySQL to Sun. Something in the likes of "In case of bankruptcy or take over the rights go back to the original owner", I don't know..  Point being: he should have thought about all this <b>before</b> he sold out to Sun.</p><p>So IMO this whole action of his only shows us how utterly narrow minded and clueless he is. Do we really want someone like that to re-gain control over how MySQL is going ?</p><p>This isn't about money or fame or envy. Its a question about (lack of) integrity, insights, honesty and some simple common sense. I think you'll find those qualifications lacking with Monty, and thats the only thing I'll hold against him. Not "he sold out". Who cares? Can you <i>honestly</i> say you wouldn't have done so? I don't.. The only thing I can say is that I'd have done it differently.</p><p>So... Can we now please move on and simply ignore whatever else is coming out of Monty's mouth?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ever since this Monty thing started a lot of people started to bash all of his efforts with a mere comment " You sold out and now you want the glory back " .
I for one think thats a pretty lame comment which is probably only fed with envy .
Note that I 'm stating that it would be untrue or anything ; just unfair since its the most obvious and easiest comment to make.I 've been spammed by Monty last year when he started his " Save MySQL " rampage and the one thing I consider highly dubious are the reactions he seemingly gets to his efforts .
Note how almost any comment on his blog is positive about the way things are going and how people welcome to see him put some effort into all this ?
Only one reaction shows a small sign of certain doubts but thats it.Well , I think that is something you can take into account .
When I got his e-mail on my company e-mail address ( which I 've used to respond to a MySQL mailinglist years ago ) I looked over the website , read his blog and then wrote a comment that I did n't agree with the way he handled his action , that I did n't like to be spammed in the way he did and quite frankly that it sounded odd coming from someone who set the whole thing into motion in the first place.Not talking about money , fame and fortune here mind you .
If he wanted some kind of security or insurance for the future of MySQL he should have included that right into the negotiations when he sold MySQL to Sun .
Something in the likes of " In case of bankruptcy or take over the rights go back to the original owner " , I do n't know.. Point being : he should have thought about all this before he sold out to Sun.So IMO this whole action of his only shows us how utterly narrow minded and clueless he is .
Do we really want someone like that to re-gain control over how MySQL is going ? This is n't about money or fame or envy .
Its a question about ( lack of ) integrity , insights , honesty and some simple common sense .
I think you 'll find those qualifications lacking with Monty , and thats the only thing I 'll hold against him .
Not " he sold out " .
Who cares ?
Can you honestly say you would n't have done so ?
I do n't.. The only thing I can say is that I 'd have done it differently.So... Can we now please move on and simply ignore whatever else is coming out of Monty 's mouth ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ever since this Monty thing started a lot of people started to bash all of his efforts with a mere comment "You sold out and now you want the glory back".
I for one think thats a pretty lame comment which is probably only fed with envy.
Note that I'm stating that it would be untrue or anything; just unfair since its the most obvious and easiest comment to make.I've been spammed by Monty last year when he started his "Save MySQL" rampage and the one thing I consider highly dubious are the reactions he seemingly gets to his efforts.
Note how almost any comment on his blog is positive about the way things are going and how people welcome to see him put some effort into all this?
Only one reaction shows a small sign of certain doubts but thats it.Well, I think that is something you can take into account.
When I got his e-mail on my company e-mail address (which I've used to respond to a MySQL mailinglist years ago) I looked over the website, read his blog and then wrote a comment that I didn't agree with the way he handled his action, that I didn't like to be spammed in the way he did and quite frankly that it sounded odd coming from someone who set the whole thing into motion in the first place.Not talking about money, fame and fortune here mind you.
If he wanted some kind of security or insurance for the future of MySQL he should have included that right into the negotiations when he sold MySQL to Sun.
Something in the likes of "In case of bankruptcy or take over the rights go back to the original owner", I don't know..  Point being: he should have thought about all this before he sold out to Sun.So IMO this whole action of his only shows us how utterly narrow minded and clueless he is.
Do we really want someone like that to re-gain control over how MySQL is going ?This isn't about money or fame or envy.
Its a question about (lack of) integrity, insights, honesty and some simple common sense.
I think you'll find those qualifications lacking with Monty, and thats the only thing I'll hold against him.
Not "he sold out".
Who cares?
Can you honestly say you wouldn't have done so?
I don't.. The only thing I can say is that I'd have done it differently.So... Can we now please move on and simply ignore whatever else is coming out of Monty's mouth?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707226</id>
	<title>Re:Let me say this as a developer, contributor,</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263052260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Heads need not roll. Anyone with a large exposure to mysql should be at least getting a sense of how painful it would be to migrate to postgresql, and ideally have been doing some of this research for at least the past year when it was clear mysql was headed for trouble.
<br> <br>
But even in the worst case, mysql would turn into a type of legacy application, with support and bug fixes provided by 3rd parties. This would be not nearly as bad as the suffering of companies back in the day dealing with legacy systems where they can't even figure out who might even know <i>where</i> the original source is, let alone someone to fix or enhance something for you.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Heads need not roll .
Anyone with a large exposure to mysql should be at least getting a sense of how painful it would be to migrate to postgresql , and ideally have been doing some of this research for at least the past year when it was clear mysql was headed for trouble .
But even in the worst case , mysql would turn into a type of legacy application , with support and bug fixes provided by 3rd parties .
This would be not nearly as bad as the suffering of companies back in the day dealing with legacy systems where they ca n't even figure out who might even know where the original source is , let alone someone to fix or enhance something for you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Heads need not roll.
Anyone with a large exposure to mysql should be at least getting a sense of how painful it would be to migrate to postgresql, and ideally have been doing some of this research for at least the past year when it was clear mysql was headed for trouble.
But even in the worst case, mysql would turn into a type of legacy application, with support and bug fixes provided by 3rd parties.
This would be not nearly as bad as the suffering of companies back in the day dealing with legacy systems where they can't even figure out who might even know where the original source is, let alone someone to fix or enhance something for you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707102</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707530</id>
	<title>Re:Widenius please move on...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263055320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>...PostgreSQL is fragile because the top 20 developers could be bought out by Oracle...</p></div><p>Sort of like how Monty's been trying to buy all the top MySQL devs away from Sun...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...PostgreSQL is fragile because the top 20 developers could be bought out by Oracle...Sort of like how Monty 's been trying to buy all the top MySQL devs away from Sun.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...PostgreSQL is fragile because the top 20 developers could be bought out by Oracle...Sort of like how Monty's been trying to buy all the top MySQL devs away from Sun...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707082</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707092</id>
	<title>someone is trying to sell this idea to Oracle.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263050880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>someone is trying to sell this idea to Oracle.  It is as simple as that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>someone is trying to sell this idea to Oracle .
It is as simple as that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>someone is trying to sell this idea to Oracle.
It is as simple as that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707734</id>
	<title>Re:Because it's open source and they can't control</title>
	<author>icebraining</author>
	<datestamp>1263057600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If not chewing gum is one of your principles, you've got some issues.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If not chewing gum is one of your principles , you 've got some issues .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If not chewing gum is one of your principles, you've got some issues.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707256</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707782</id>
	<title>Re:Please name names</title>
	<author>maroberts</author>
	<datestamp>1263058200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm working for a major European bank; we use PostgresSQL for most of our data aggregation and analysis. I'm really a long term MySQL user, but haven't found any problems doing the same stuff with a different database</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm working for a major European bank ; we use PostgresSQL for most of our data aggregation and analysis .
I 'm really a long term MySQL user , but have n't found any problems doing the same stuff with a different database</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm working for a major European bank; we use PostgresSQL for most of our data aggregation and analysis.
I'm really a long term MySQL user, but haven't found any problems doing the same stuff with a different database</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708318</id>
	<title>Re:Please name names</title>
	<author>walterbyrd</author>
	<datestamp>1263063120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>MXLogic uses PostgreSQL as their major production database. I know of some other luggage company in Denver that uses PostgreSQL, but I forget the name of the company.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>MXLogic uses PostgreSQL as their major production database .
I know of some other luggage company in Denver that uses PostgreSQL , but I forget the name of the company .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>MXLogic uses PostgreSQL as their major production database.
I know of some other luggage company in Denver that uses PostgreSQL, but I forget the name of the company.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30714026</id>
	<title>Re:Stop quoting Monty</title>
	<author>sproketboy</author>
	<datestamp>1263131100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well this is giving a lot of space to PostgreSQL which is a superior DB so I don't mind so much.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well this is giving a lot of space to PostgreSQL which is a superior DB so I do n't mind so much .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well this is giving a lot of space to PostgreSQL which is a superior DB so I don't mind so much.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30709586</id>
	<title>Re:Please name names</title>
	<author>evilviper</author>
	<datestamp>1263030720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostgreSQL#Prominent\_users" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostgreSQL#Prominent\_users</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostgreSQL # Prominent \ _users [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostgreSQL#Prominent\_users [wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30709380</id>
	<title>Re:Please name names</title>
	<author>slick\_rick</author>
	<datestamp>1263028740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I happen to know that right after the Columbia accident, all the telemetry data was loaded into a PG database and that is what was used for analysis.  At one point tracking the entire<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.org domain was done with PG as well.  I've always thought of MySQL as a racehorse, no other horses can compete for speed when running around a short track (IE read-mostly website). PG is more of a draft horse, able to  plow the fields, or pull the wagon, or do a million other things that MySQL is not appropriate for.  Oracle would be an Elephant, too huge and expensive to maintain for most things while SQL Server would be a mule, a hopefully sterile off-breed of a horse (Sybase) and a donkey (Windows).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I happen to know that right after the Columbia accident , all the telemetry data was loaded into a PG database and that is what was used for analysis .
At one point tracking the entire .org domain was done with PG as well .
I 've always thought of MySQL as a racehorse , no other horses can compete for speed when running around a short track ( IE read-mostly website ) .
PG is more of a draft horse , able to plow the fields , or pull the wagon , or do a million other things that MySQL is not appropriate for .
Oracle would be an Elephant , too huge and expensive to maintain for most things while SQL Server would be a mule , a hopefully sterile off-breed of a horse ( Sybase ) and a donkey ( Windows ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I happen to know that right after the Columbia accident, all the telemetry data was loaded into a PG database and that is what was used for analysis.
At one point tracking the entire .org domain was done with PG as well.
I've always thought of MySQL as a racehorse, no other horses can compete for speed when running around a short track (IE read-mostly website).
PG is more of a draft horse, able to  plow the fields, or pull the wagon, or do a million other things that MySQL is not appropriate for.
Oracle would be an Elephant, too huge and expensive to maintain for most things while SQL Server would be a mule, a hopefully sterile off-breed of a horse (Sybase) and a donkey (Windows).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707344</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708086</id>
	<title>What Monty should do</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263060720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Monty can cry all he wants about Mysql, he is never getting back control of it. He should sponsor a fork of Postgre, which has a BSD license and would let him resell or modify it to his liking. He could even make another dual source license I'm guessing. He could probably start this tomorrow if he wished, it seems the real problem for him would be gaining the trust of open source developers after the Mysql situation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Monty can cry all he wants about Mysql , he is never getting back control of it .
He should sponsor a fork of Postgre , which has a BSD license and would let him resell or modify it to his liking .
He could even make another dual source license I 'm guessing .
He could probably start this tomorrow if he wished , it seems the real problem for him would be gaining the trust of open source developers after the Mysql situation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Monty can cry all he wants about Mysql, he is never getting back control of it.
He should sponsor a fork of Postgre, which has a BSD license and would let him resell or modify it to his liking.
He could even make another dual source license I'm guessing.
He could probably start this tomorrow if he wished, it seems the real problem for him would be gaining the trust of open source developers after the Mysql situation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30710154</id>
	<title>Re:Firebird</title>
	<author>hairyfeet</author>
	<datestamp>1263036780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That is why I never understood this whole "ZOMG! MySQL is gonna fall to teh evils Oracle!!!" bullshit. Once of the nice things about FOSS is there are many ways to do the same job. Some of them are more user friendly, some more designed for power users, but it isn't like there is only one way to do things.</p><p>And if<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. is gonna run bullshit articles like this, could they PLEASE put a disclaimer at the top that says "WARNING: Monty used to own MySQL and now wants it back for free!" okay? Monty is a douchebag who sold his product for an assload o' cash and now wants to whine and demand his app back, while <strong>not giving back one dime he took for it</strong>.</p><p>

If Monty wants MySQL back so bad, give back the money! I'm sure as much as Sun is hurting Oracle will be more than happy to take back that assload o' cash and hand him MySQL. But all this "Waaah they won't give back MySQL!" bullshit needs to stop, or at least have a disclaimer for those that don't know who Monty really is. If he wanted control he shouldn't have accepted the $$$, but he did so he should STFU and don't let the door hit him on the way out. What a douche.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That is why I never understood this whole " ZOMG !
MySQL is gon na fall to teh evils Oracle ! ! !
" bullshit .
Once of the nice things about FOSS is there are many ways to do the same job .
Some of them are more user friendly , some more designed for power users , but it is n't like there is only one way to do things.And if / .
is gon na run bullshit articles like this , could they PLEASE put a disclaimer at the top that says " WARNING : Monty used to own MySQL and now wants it back for free !
" okay ?
Monty is a douchebag who sold his product for an assload o ' cash and now wants to whine and demand his app back , while not giving back one dime he took for it .
If Monty wants MySQL back so bad , give back the money !
I 'm sure as much as Sun is hurting Oracle will be more than happy to take back that assload o ' cash and hand him MySQL .
But all this " Waaah they wo n't give back MySQL !
" bullshit needs to stop , or at least have a disclaimer for those that do n't know who Monty really is .
If he wanted control he should n't have accepted the $ $ $ , but he did so he should STFU and do n't let the door hit him on the way out .
What a douche .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is why I never understood this whole "ZOMG!
MySQL is gonna fall to teh evils Oracle!!!
" bullshit.
Once of the nice things about FOSS is there are many ways to do the same job.
Some of them are more user friendly, some more designed for power users, but it isn't like there is only one way to do things.And if /.
is gonna run bullshit articles like this, could they PLEASE put a disclaimer at the top that says "WARNING: Monty used to own MySQL and now wants it back for free!
" okay?
Monty is a douchebag who sold his product for an assload o' cash and now wants to whine and demand his app back, while not giving back one dime he took for it.
If Monty wants MySQL back so bad, give back the money!
I'm sure as much as Sun is hurting Oracle will be more than happy to take back that assload o' cash and hand him MySQL.
But all this "Waaah they won't give back MySQL!
" bullshit needs to stop, or at least have a disclaimer for those that don't know who Monty really is.
If he wanted control he shouldn't have accepted the $$$, but he did so he should STFU and don't let the door hit him on the way out.
What a douche.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707078</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707332</id>
	<title>There's another angle</title>
	<author>Trailer Trash</author>
	<datestamp>1263053220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Even if all the pgsql developers quit today and nobody came in to continue, it would still be a better product than mysql will ever be.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Even if all the pgsql developers quit today and nobody came in to continue , it would still be a better product than mysql will ever be .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even if all the pgsql developers quit today and nobody came in to continue, it would still be a better product than mysql will ever be.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707698</id>
	<title>Monty Needs To STFU</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263057300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Monty.  You seriously need to take your money you made from us and just Shut The Fuck Up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Monty .
You seriously need to take your money you made from us and just Shut The Fuck Up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Monty.
You seriously need to take your money you made from us and just Shut The Fuck Up.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707098</id>
	<title>Stop quoting Monty</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263050880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Please stop quoting Monty in slashdot stories, you're giving him a bigger platform for his comments than he deserves. He sold MySQL to Sun and then left Sun. That should be the end of the story. Now he's making sounds like a regular cry baby. Someone please tell him to get some balls and grow up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Please stop quoting Monty in slashdot stories , you 're giving him a bigger platform for his comments than he deserves .
He sold MySQL to Sun and then left Sun .
That should be the end of the story .
Now he 's making sounds like a regular cry baby .
Someone please tell him to get some balls and grow up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Please stop quoting Monty in slashdot stories, you're giving him a bigger platform for his comments than he deserves.
He sold MySQL to Sun and then left Sun.
That should be the end of the story.
Now he's making sounds like a regular cry baby.
Someone please tell him to get some balls and grow up.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707874</id>
	<title>Some people don't do money for the money</title>
	<author>weston</author>
	<datestamp>1263058920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Some people don't do it for the money. You can't buy them. Ever.</i></p><p>I don't know. I mean, I know what you're talking about: I've turned down a well-paying job with equity that would have set me up pretty good because I felt there was something more important than the money.</p><p>But here's the thing: at a certain level, once people offer you enough money (the mark starts somewhere around a million bucks) they're not just offering you money anymore, they're offering you freedom to do whatever you'd like to with your time. If the top 20 Postgres devs would rather do nothing else than work on Postgres, then you're right, this wouldn't happen. But if enough of them have other interests, then it's entirely possible someone could buy their non-participation -- with the ability to spend all the time they like on something else.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some people do n't do it for the money .
You ca n't buy them .
Ever.I do n't know .
I mean , I know what you 're talking about : I 've turned down a well-paying job with equity that would have set me up pretty good because I felt there was something more important than the money.But here 's the thing : at a certain level , once people offer you enough money ( the mark starts somewhere around a million bucks ) they 're not just offering you money anymore , they 're offering you freedom to do whatever you 'd like to with your time .
If the top 20 Postgres devs would rather do nothing else than work on Postgres , then you 're right , this would n't happen .
But if enough of them have other interests , then it 's entirely possible someone could buy their non-participation -- with the ability to spend all the time they like on something else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some people don't do it for the money.
You can't buy them.
Ever.I don't know.
I mean, I know what you're talking about: I've turned down a well-paying job with equity that would have set me up pretty good because I felt there was something more important than the money.But here's the thing: at a certain level, once people offer you enough money (the mark starts somewhere around a million bucks) they're not just offering you money anymore, they're offering you freedom to do whatever you'd like to with your time.
If the top 20 Postgres devs would rather do nothing else than work on Postgres, then you're right, this wouldn't happen.
But if enough of them have other interests, then it's entirely possible someone could buy their non-participation -- with the ability to spend all the time they like on something else.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707256</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708134</id>
	<title>What I don't understand is...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263061380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...why this is such an issue.  I know that MySQL is distributed (at least to some) under the terms of the GPL.  I have received it only under GPL2, and never under their proprietary license.</p><p>The GPL has been applied to the MySQL code, and it cannot under any circumstances be removed.  Sure Oracle could absorb whatever code they wanted into any proprietary product, but I still have GPL code, we all still have the original.</p><p>Development could continue in the community, we can still enjoy the benefit of the MySQL database with or without oracle's blessing.  In short, this a non-issue because we will always have the database code as it is now.</p><p>The fact that Monty is a prick and a sellout makes no difference either.  PostgreSQL won't be sold out, and even if it was, we would still have the GPL'd versions to fork from.  That's what the GPL is supposed to do.  It is there to protect us from the Monty Wideniuses of the world!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...why this is such an issue .
I know that MySQL is distributed ( at least to some ) under the terms of the GPL .
I have received it only under GPL2 , and never under their proprietary license.The GPL has been applied to the MySQL code , and it can not under any circumstances be removed .
Sure Oracle could absorb whatever code they wanted into any proprietary product , but I still have GPL code , we all still have the original.Development could continue in the community , we can still enjoy the benefit of the MySQL database with or without oracle 's blessing .
In short , this a non-issue because we will always have the database code as it is now.The fact that Monty is a prick and a sellout makes no difference either .
PostgreSQL wo n't be sold out , and even if it was , we would still have the GPL 'd versions to fork from .
That 's what the GPL is supposed to do .
It is there to protect us from the Monty Wideniuses of the world !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...why this is such an issue.
I know that MySQL is distributed (at least to some) under the terms of the GPL.
I have received it only under GPL2, and never under their proprietary license.The GPL has been applied to the MySQL code, and it cannot under any circumstances be removed.
Sure Oracle could absorb whatever code they wanted into any proprietary product, but I still have GPL code, we all still have the original.Development could continue in the community, we can still enjoy the benefit of the MySQL database with or without oracle's blessing.
In short, this a non-issue because we will always have the database code as it is now.The fact that Monty is a prick and a sellout makes no difference either.
PostgreSQL won't be sold out, and even if it was, we would still have the GPL'd versions to fork from.
That's what the GPL is supposed to do.
It is there to protect us from the Monty Wideniuses of the world!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708748</id>
	<title>I see his point re buy-out</title>
	<author>stimpleton</author>
	<datestamp>1263066720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The 2nd  Iraq invasion changed my view about the world.<br> <br>As we know, the initial success of the invasion wasn't due to military excellence such as the African Desert Tank Battles between General Mongomery and the German Panzer Divisions.
<br> <br>
It was due to middle ranked officers - tank commander, platoon leaders being paid money by the US Govt, CIA. When they didnt show up to work on the specified day, the ordinary soldier fled.<br> <br>
In this case Monty is right, its not hard, for orgs with the know-how and resources to de-rail something. Money talks.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The 2nd Iraq invasion changed my view about the world .
As we know , the initial success of the invasion was n't due to military excellence such as the African Desert Tank Battles between General Mongomery and the German Panzer Divisions .
It was due to middle ranked officers - tank commander , platoon leaders being paid money by the US Govt , CIA .
When they didnt show up to work on the specified day , the ordinary soldier fled .
In this case Monty is right , its not hard , for orgs with the know-how and resources to de-rail something .
Money talks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The 2nd  Iraq invasion changed my view about the world.
As we know, the initial success of the invasion wasn't due to military excellence such as the African Desert Tank Battles between General Mongomery and the German Panzer Divisions.
It was due to middle ranked officers - tank commander, platoon leaders being paid money by the US Govt, CIA.
When they didnt show up to work on the specified day, the ordinary soldier fled.
In this case Monty is right, its not hard, for orgs with the know-how and resources to de-rail something.
Money talks.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30709388</id>
	<title>Re:It is not a ridiculous claim</title>
	<author>ducomputergeek</author>
	<datestamp>1263028860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Mod parent up.  He's hit it on the head when it comes to the history of PostgreSQL.  What is missing is that fact that PostgreSQL had table/row locking and other ACID compliant features way before MySQL.  And even with MySQL, they had to import the features using other DB engines such as Berkley or InnoDB.  While native replication has been missing there are a number of 3rd party clustering tools that work extremely well.  I've used pgpool, Slony, and GridSQL myself.  So what if they are 3rd party tools?  They are solid and I have a choice of tools to match the right one for the job instead of one-size-fits all.</p><p>Furthermore, PostgreSQL modelled itself around Oracle and DB2.  If you developed something that worked well on PostgreSQL it was usually relatively painless to convert to DB2 or Oracle and the system would scream.  But today, unless your dealing with databases in the Terabyte range, performance is good enough in PostgreSQL.</p><p>The early versions of our product ran on MySQL because that was what was available on the servers at the time and we were on a shoestring budget and had to use what was there.  As our product grew, we encountered problems with data corruption on MySQL, found that MySQL's DBCLUSTER engine was horribly buggy, and started to look towards alternatives when I suggested PostgreSQL.  When it was announced Sun would buy MySQL, we made the switch that day.  Since we were using abstraction to begin with, it just took a couple days to port the tables and then import the data from MySQL and we were done.  Our plan was to use PostgreSQL until we could afford DB2 or Teradata.</p><p>However, PostgreSQL has yet to crash or corrupt any data in 18 months.  With GridSQL we have HA with shared nothing architechure and it seems to be able to handle hundreds to a couple thousand concurrent connections on $12k in hardware without a hiccup.  In fact I have to remind our guys to do the routine maintence and preform checks otherwise we'd almost forget about it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mod parent up .
He 's hit it on the head when it comes to the history of PostgreSQL .
What is missing is that fact that PostgreSQL had table/row locking and other ACID compliant features way before MySQL .
And even with MySQL , they had to import the features using other DB engines such as Berkley or InnoDB .
While native replication has been missing there are a number of 3rd party clustering tools that work extremely well .
I 've used pgpool , Slony , and GridSQL myself .
So what if they are 3rd party tools ?
They are solid and I have a choice of tools to match the right one for the job instead of one-size-fits all.Furthermore , PostgreSQL modelled itself around Oracle and DB2 .
If you developed something that worked well on PostgreSQL it was usually relatively painless to convert to DB2 or Oracle and the system would scream .
But today , unless your dealing with databases in the Terabyte range , performance is good enough in PostgreSQL.The early versions of our product ran on MySQL because that was what was available on the servers at the time and we were on a shoestring budget and had to use what was there .
As our product grew , we encountered problems with data corruption on MySQL , found that MySQL 's DBCLUSTER engine was horribly buggy , and started to look towards alternatives when I suggested PostgreSQL .
When it was announced Sun would buy MySQL , we made the switch that day .
Since we were using abstraction to begin with , it just took a couple days to port the tables and then import the data from MySQL and we were done .
Our plan was to use PostgreSQL until we could afford DB2 or Teradata.However , PostgreSQL has yet to crash or corrupt any data in 18 months .
With GridSQL we have HA with shared nothing architechure and it seems to be able to handle hundreds to a couple thousand concurrent connections on $ 12k in hardware without a hiccup .
In fact I have to remind our guys to do the routine maintence and preform checks otherwise we 'd almost forget about it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mod parent up.
He's hit it on the head when it comes to the history of PostgreSQL.
What is missing is that fact that PostgreSQL had table/row locking and other ACID compliant features way before MySQL.
And even with MySQL, they had to import the features using other DB engines such as Berkley or InnoDB.
While native replication has been missing there are a number of 3rd party clustering tools that work extremely well.
I've used pgpool, Slony, and GridSQL myself.
So what if they are 3rd party tools?
They are solid and I have a choice of tools to match the right one for the job instead of one-size-fits all.Furthermore, PostgreSQL modelled itself around Oracle and DB2.
If you developed something that worked well on PostgreSQL it was usually relatively painless to convert to DB2 or Oracle and the system would scream.
But today, unless your dealing with databases in the Terabyte range, performance is good enough in PostgreSQL.The early versions of our product ran on MySQL because that was what was available on the servers at the time and we were on a shoestring budget and had to use what was there.
As our product grew, we encountered problems with data corruption on MySQL, found that MySQL's DBCLUSTER engine was horribly buggy, and started to look towards alternatives when I suggested PostgreSQL.
When it was announced Sun would buy MySQL, we made the switch that day.
Since we were using abstraction to begin with, it just took a couple days to port the tables and then import the data from MySQL and we were done.
Our plan was to use PostgreSQL until we could afford DB2 or Teradata.However, PostgreSQL has yet to crash or corrupt any data in 18 months.
With GridSQL we have HA with shared nothing architechure and it seems to be able to handle hundreds to a couple thousand concurrent connections on $12k in hardware without a hiccup.
In fact I have to remind our guys to do the routine maintence and preform checks otherwise we'd almost forget about it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707798</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30713380</id>
	<title>Postgres + SQL = PostgreSQL</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263116400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>learn that already!<br>it's not postgre, it's postgres!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>learn that already ! it 's not postgre , it 's postgres !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>learn that already!it's not postgre, it's postgres!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708214</id>
	<title>Truth is that Postgress Rocks, dual licenses sucks</title>
	<author>viraltus</author>
	<datestamp>1263062160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's the problem dual licensing has; you never know what to expect from the onwer, and that is why is has to be avoided when truly free projects are out there... same goes to KDE/Qt.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's the problem dual licensing has ; you never know what to expect from the onwer , and that is why is has to be avoided when truly free projects are out there... same goes to KDE/Qt .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's the problem dual licensing has; you never know what to expect from the onwer, and that is why is has to be avoided when truly free projects are out there... same goes to KDE/Qt.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707210</id>
	<title>Please... Monty</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263052140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Monty:  Please go away.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Monty : Please go away .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Monty:  Please go away.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30710688</id>
	<title>I would switch to postgresSQL in a heartbeat</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263041580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>if it was as easy to setup and maintain as MySQL.  I have too much other stuff to do already.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:/  From what I can see MySQL has much better maint tools as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>if it was as easy to setup and maintain as MySQL .
I have too much other stuff to do already .
: / From what I can see MySQL has much better maint tools as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if it was as easy to setup and maintain as MySQL.
I have too much other stuff to do already.
:/  From what I can see MySQL has much better maint tools as well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708724</id>
	<title>Re:Widenius please move on...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263066600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Then what's stopping you?  The other half, which doesn't want to pay for Oracle or SQL Server which will keep on using MySQL since it's free, regardless of "principle"?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Then what 's stopping you ?
The other half , which does n't want to pay for Oracle or SQL Server which will keep on using MySQL since it 's free , regardless of " principle " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Then what's stopping you?
The other half, which doesn't want to pay for Oracle or SQL Server which will keep on using MySQL since it's free, regardless of "principle"?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707594</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708250</id>
	<title>Re:Not even Oracle is evil enough to try this</title>
	<author>dkleinsc</author>
	<datestamp>1263062580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>First, it assumes that the pgsql developers of importance can be bought. Our world is decadent, but not everyone has a price tag.</p></div><p>Really? To quote Tom Lehrer:<br>"It's so nice to have integrity, I'll tell you why:<br>'Cause if you really have integrity, that means your price is very high."</p><p>While I'd probably be resistant to being bought out, if the price were high enough I would at least consider it. If I were in that position, I'd think about taking the big bucks, retiring from my day job, and working on and donating to other open source projects (and probably some other worthy causes as well) while enjoying my comfortable retirement.</p><p>And the wonderful thing about open source licenses is that it would be very easy for someone else to take up my hard work, so as far as I was concerned somebody just paid me big bucks for nothing at all.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>First , it assumes that the pgsql developers of importance can be bought .
Our world is decadent , but not everyone has a price tag.Really ?
To quote Tom Lehrer : " It 's so nice to have integrity , I 'll tell you why : 'Cause if you really have integrity , that means your price is very high .
" While I 'd probably be resistant to being bought out , if the price were high enough I would at least consider it .
If I were in that position , I 'd think about taking the big bucks , retiring from my day job , and working on and donating to other open source projects ( and probably some other worthy causes as well ) while enjoying my comfortable retirement.And the wonderful thing about open source licenses is that it would be very easy for someone else to take up my hard work , so as far as I was concerned somebody just paid me big bucks for nothing at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First, it assumes that the pgsql developers of importance can be bought.
Our world is decadent, but not everyone has a price tag.Really?
To quote Tom Lehrer:"It's so nice to have integrity, I'll tell you why:'Cause if you really have integrity, that means your price is very high.
"While I'd probably be resistant to being bought out, if the price were high enough I would at least consider it.
If I were in that position, I'd think about taking the big bucks, retiring from my day job, and working on and donating to other open source projects (and probably some other worthy causes as well) while enjoying my comfortable retirement.And the wonderful thing about open source licenses is that it would be very easy for someone else to take up my hard work, so as far as I was concerned somebody just paid me big bucks for nothing at all.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30709468</id>
	<title>I wonder why MySQL is even considered</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263029460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wonder why MySQL is even considered as an option these days. Honest question -- I don't have much experience with it. I just tried to port my DB schema a couple of years back to it (from MS SQL) and run a couple of queries and it showed ridiculously poor performance on complex joins, so I went with Postgres instead. Postgres has been great.</p><p>Is there a good technical reason why people choose MySQL over Postgres?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder why MySQL is even considered as an option these days .
Honest question -- I do n't have much experience with it .
I just tried to port my DB schema a couple of years back to it ( from MS SQL ) and run a couple of queries and it showed ridiculously poor performance on complex joins , so I went with Postgres instead .
Postgres has been great.Is there a good technical reason why people choose MySQL over Postgres ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder why MySQL is even considered as an option these days.
Honest question -- I don't have much experience with it.
I just tried to port my DB schema a couple of years back to it (from MS SQL) and run a couple of queries and it showed ridiculously poor performance on complex joins, so I went with Postgres instead.
Postgres has been great.Is there a good technical reason why people choose MySQL over Postgres?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707136</id>
	<title>Why trust Sun?</title>
	<author>argent</author>
	<datestamp>1263051360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is precisely why people were concerned about letting ANY single company own it.</p><p>Any company can be bought out.</p><p>If a product can't be effectively forked, it's not completely open source.</p><p>If a GPL fork of MySQL isn't good enough, then whose fault is that? And what does that mean for other dual-licensed GPL+Proprietary products?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is precisely why people were concerned about letting ANY single company own it.Any company can be bought out.If a product ca n't be effectively forked , it 's not completely open source.If a GPL fork of MySQL is n't good enough , then whose fault is that ?
And what does that mean for other dual-licensed GPL + Proprietary products ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is precisely why people were concerned about letting ANY single company own it.Any company can be bought out.If a product can't be effectively forked, it's not completely open source.If a GPL fork of MySQL isn't good enough, then whose fault is that?
And what does that mean for other dual-licensed GPL+Proprietary products?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708826</id>
	<title>I won't lie</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263067380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't really care much for PostgreasSQL, I'm a big fan and user of MySQL.  However, it is nice to know that if MySQL should die (and things are not as joyful now as they were before, people having sold the software for $1 billion, that company acquired, and that company has a commercial product that they sell for money, have never given anything away for free, and would really like to have MySQL dead.  I don't know if MySQL will develop further, or if it will fork, but certainly given all of the circumstances surrounding it, if I have to at least there is PostgressSQL (but only if the worst possible conditions come to pass).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't really care much for PostgreasSQL , I 'm a big fan and user of MySQL .
However , it is nice to know that if MySQL should die ( and things are not as joyful now as they were before , people having sold the software for $ 1 billion , that company acquired , and that company has a commercial product that they sell for money , have never given anything away for free , and would really like to have MySQL dead .
I do n't know if MySQL will develop further , or if it will fork , but certainly given all of the circumstances surrounding it , if I have to at least there is PostgressSQL ( but only if the worst possible conditions come to pass ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't really care much for PostgreasSQL, I'm a big fan and user of MySQL.
However, it is nice to know that if MySQL should die (and things are not as joyful now as they were before, people having sold the software for $1 billion, that company acquired, and that company has a commercial product that they sell for money, have never given anything away for free, and would really like to have MySQL dead.
I don't know if MySQL will develop further, or if it will fork, but certainly given all of the circumstances surrounding it, if I have to at least there is PostgressSQL (but only if the worst possible conditions come to pass).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708704</id>
	<title>This is like bad chess.</title>
	<author>hey!</author>
	<datestamp>1263066420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You know, the kind that plans gambits with the assumption the opposition isn't paying attention to what you're up to.</p><p>Suppose Oracle decides to kill PostGres by hiring *all* of the top developers.  Getting 40\% or 50\% of them is probably feasible at a reasonable price, but not the nail-in-the-coffin Evil Ellison is looking for.  He needs 100\% of the key developers or as-near-as-dammit. The closer you need to get to 100\%, the higher the cost goes, and it's not linear.</p><p>It'd be easy to hire four or five of the top 20, but to get sixteen or seventeen you'd have to make the offer so amazingly good that only a fool would refuse.   How much would that cost?  A cool million apiece?</p><p>Here's the flaw.  Let's say I'm a competitor, and I see that Oracle has just dropped twenty or thirty million to get these exact persons on the team.  But there are lots of good programmers in the world.  I could hire some darn good ones with a hiring bonus of, say, a hundred thousand plus a good salary and a chance to work on an interesting, high profile project.   So after Oracle spends its twenty, I spend two million and replace the lost talent with equally good talent.</p><p>Why?</p><p>Because it's a serious setback Oracle's plan to become the de facto owner of database technology. Well worth it, to me, even if I compete *myself* against Postgres.  Also, because it socks Oracle where it lives -- in the cash flow.  That could hurt it in other ways. We could have management turnover, maybe even a purge at Oracle for doing something so stupid with twenty million bucks.  Cue the "Mwa-ha-ha-ha" in my boardroom.  And once Oracle gives up, I *still* have these twenty top notch systems programmers I can use on any mf my projects.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You know , the kind that plans gambits with the assumption the opposition is n't paying attention to what you 're up to.Suppose Oracle decides to kill PostGres by hiring * all * of the top developers .
Getting 40 \ % or 50 \ % of them is probably feasible at a reasonable price , but not the nail-in-the-coffin Evil Ellison is looking for .
He needs 100 \ % of the key developers or as-near-as-dammit .
The closer you need to get to 100 \ % , the higher the cost goes , and it 's not linear.It 'd be easy to hire four or five of the top 20 , but to get sixteen or seventeen you 'd have to make the offer so amazingly good that only a fool would refuse .
How much would that cost ?
A cool million apiece ? Here 's the flaw .
Let 's say I 'm a competitor , and I see that Oracle has just dropped twenty or thirty million to get these exact persons on the team .
But there are lots of good programmers in the world .
I could hire some darn good ones with a hiring bonus of , say , a hundred thousand plus a good salary and a chance to work on an interesting , high profile project .
So after Oracle spends its twenty , I spend two million and replace the lost talent with equally good talent.Why ? Because it 's a serious setback Oracle 's plan to become the de facto owner of database technology .
Well worth it , to me , even if I compete * myself * against Postgres .
Also , because it socks Oracle where it lives -- in the cash flow .
That could hurt it in other ways .
We could have management turnover , maybe even a purge at Oracle for doing something so stupid with twenty million bucks .
Cue the " Mwa-ha-ha-ha " in my boardroom .
And once Oracle gives up , I * still * have these twenty top notch systems programmers I can use on any mf my projects .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know, the kind that plans gambits with the assumption the opposition isn't paying attention to what you're up to.Suppose Oracle decides to kill PostGres by hiring *all* of the top developers.
Getting 40\% or 50\% of them is probably feasible at a reasonable price, but not the nail-in-the-coffin Evil Ellison is looking for.
He needs 100\% of the key developers or as-near-as-dammit.
The closer you need to get to 100\%, the higher the cost goes, and it's not linear.It'd be easy to hire four or five of the top 20, but to get sixteen or seventeen you'd have to make the offer so amazingly good that only a fool would refuse.
How much would that cost?
A cool million apiece?Here's the flaw.
Let's say I'm a competitor, and I see that Oracle has just dropped twenty or thirty million to get these exact persons on the team.
But there are lots of good programmers in the world.
I could hire some darn good ones with a hiring bonus of, say, a hundred thousand plus a good salary and a chance to work on an interesting, high profile project.
So after Oracle spends its twenty, I spend two million and replace the lost talent with equally good talent.Why?Because it's a serious setback Oracle's plan to become the de facto owner of database technology.
Well worth it, to me, even if I compete *myself* against Postgres.
Also, because it socks Oracle where it lives -- in the cash flow.
That could hurt it in other ways.
We could have management turnover, maybe even a purge at Oracle for doing something so stupid with twenty million bucks.
Cue the "Mwa-ha-ha-ha" in my boardroom.
And once Oracle gives up, I *still* have these twenty top notch systems programmers I can use on any mf my projects.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707548</id>
	<title>EnterpriseDB</title>
	<author>ascari</author>
	<datestamp>1263055500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>EnterpriseDB is a company that offers commercial support for PostgresQL. They have salaried people on staff that contribute to the project, much like IBM, RedHat etc. contribute to the Linux kernel. So I would say Monty's scenario is about as likely as Linux going away by Microsoft or Apple paying off the to 20 kernel developers. Some people just don't get how open source works.</htmltext>
<tokenext>EnterpriseDB is a company that offers commercial support for PostgresQL .
They have salaried people on staff that contribute to the project , much like IBM , RedHat etc .
contribute to the Linux kernel .
So I would say Monty 's scenario is about as likely as Linux going away by Microsoft or Apple paying off the to 20 kernel developers .
Some people just do n't get how open source works .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>EnterpriseDB is a company that offers commercial support for PostgresQL.
They have salaried people on staff that contribute to the project, much like IBM, RedHat etc.
contribute to the Linux kernel.
So I would say Monty's scenario is about as likely as Linux going away by Microsoft or Apple paying off the to 20 kernel developers.
Some people just don't get how open source works.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707256</id>
	<title>Because it's open source and they can't control it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263052500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>DUH!</p><p>Some people don't do it for the money. You can't buy them. Ever.</p><p>For me it's like that: I have a goal that I see as the point of my existence. Big money does not help that goal. So no money in the world can change my goal. And nothing can stop me from pursuing it. Because that would be the end of existence. If I don't want to chew bubble gum, not even a million will change that. (One guy tried that on me, but with $1000 on the table. Just to chew one strip of gum. I said no, and I'm proud of it. It drove him and his tiny mind crazy that evening.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)<br>If money can trump your principles, you've got no principles but are a lying bastard. (Yes I know that this goes completely against the &ldquo;official&rdquo; US philosophy. But we don&rsquo; have to agree, have we?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>DUH ! Some people do n't do it for the money .
You ca n't buy them .
Ever.For me it 's like that : I have a goal that I see as the point of my existence .
Big money does not help that goal .
So no money in the world can change my goal .
And nothing can stop me from pursuing it .
Because that would be the end of existence .
If I do n't want to chew bubble gum , not even a million will change that .
( One guy tried that on me , but with $ 1000 on the table .
Just to chew one strip of gum .
I said no , and I 'm proud of it .
It drove him and his tiny mind crazy that evening .
: ) If money can trump your principles , you 've got no principles but are a lying bastard .
( Yes I know that this goes completely against the    official    US philosophy .
But we don    have to agree , have we ?
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>DUH!Some people don't do it for the money.
You can't buy them.
Ever.For me it's like that: I have a goal that I see as the point of my existence.
Big money does not help that goal.
So no money in the world can change my goal.
And nothing can stop me from pursuing it.
Because that would be the end of existence.
If I don't want to chew bubble gum, not even a million will change that.
(One guy tried that on me, but with $1000 on the table.
Just to chew one strip of gum.
I said no, and I'm proud of it.
It drove him and his tiny mind crazy that evening.
:)If money can trump your principles, you've got no principles but are a lying bastard.
(Yes I know that this goes completely against the “official” US philosophy.
But we don’ have to agree, have we?
:)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707096</id>
	<title>Err...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263050880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While buying out the top 20 developers (and I find it unlikely they could in the first place) wouldn't necessarily kill PostgreSQL, it would hamper development until the next 20 developers get up to speed with the code.  Imagine what would happen if Microsoft were to buy out the top 20 Linux kernel developers - Linux wouldn't be dead, but it certainly would be stagnant for a while.  There's also the real possibility of major changes, since the next group of developers would have a different way of doing things and different goals for the project.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While buying out the top 20 developers ( and I find it unlikely they could in the first place ) would n't necessarily kill PostgreSQL , it would hamper development until the next 20 developers get up to speed with the code .
Imagine what would happen if Microsoft were to buy out the top 20 Linux kernel developers - Linux would n't be dead , but it certainly would be stagnant for a while .
There 's also the real possibility of major changes , since the next group of developers would have a different way of doing things and different goals for the project .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While buying out the top 20 developers (and I find it unlikely they could in the first place) wouldn't necessarily kill PostgreSQL, it would hamper development until the next 20 developers get up to speed with the code.
Imagine what would happen if Microsoft were to buy out the top 20 Linux kernel developers - Linux wouldn't be dead, but it certainly would be stagnant for a while.
There's also the real possibility of major changes, since the next group of developers would have a different way of doing things and different goals for the project.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707528</id>
	<title>Re:Because it's open source and they can't control</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263055260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"One guy tried that on me, but with $1000 on the table. Just to chew one strip of gum. I said no, and I'm proud of it."</p><p>You shouldn't be - you could have given that $1000 to a charity and simply not chewed gum of your own accord again. I'm all for principles, but far from being high minded and laudable that was plain selfish and retarded.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" One guy tried that on me , but with $ 1000 on the table .
Just to chew one strip of gum .
I said no , and I 'm proud of it .
" You should n't be - you could have given that $ 1000 to a charity and simply not chewed gum of your own accord again .
I 'm all for principles , but far from being high minded and laudable that was plain selfish and retarded .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"One guy tried that on me, but with $1000 on the table.
Just to chew one strip of gum.
I said no, and I'm proud of it.
"You shouldn't be - you could have given that $1000 to a charity and simply not chewed gum of your own accord again.
I'm all for principles, but far from being high minded and laudable that was plain selfish and retarded.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707256</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708790</id>
	<title>shark alert</title>
	<author>rp</author>
	<datestamp>1263067020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>IMO<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. has justed the shark with this "story".  Thank you for no longer wasting my time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>IMO / .
has justed the shark with this " story " .
Thank you for no longer wasting my time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IMO /.
has justed the shark with this "story".
Thank you for no longer wasting my time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707862</id>
	<title>Re:Firebird</title>
	<author>davecb</author>
	<datestamp>1263058800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He's just pushing a straw-man argument, having unwisely made it for MySQL, and after embaressingly being caught twisting RMS's words (see groklaw, <a href="http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20100108114314405" title="groklaw.net">http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20100108114314405</a> [groklaw.net]).

</p><p>I fear he's strictly in this for himself and his friends, a certain well-know monopolist with a "Codeplex" Foundation...

</p><p>Bother! I wanted this to be over months ago, so I could get more consulting from Sun's (Now Oracle's) customers.

</p><p>--dave</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He 's just pushing a straw-man argument , having unwisely made it for MySQL , and after embaressingly being caught twisting RMS 's words ( see groklaw , http : //www.groklaw.net/article.php ? story = 20100108114314405 [ groklaw.net ] ) .
I fear he 's strictly in this for himself and his friends , a certain well-know monopolist with a " Codeplex " Foundation.. . Bother ! I wanted this to be over months ago , so I could get more consulting from Sun 's ( Now Oracle 's ) customers .
--dave</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He's just pushing a straw-man argument, having unwisely made it for MySQL, and after embaressingly being caught twisting RMS's words (see groklaw, http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20100108114314405 [groklaw.net]).
I fear he's strictly in this for himself and his friends, a certain well-know monopolist with a "Codeplex" Foundation...

Bother! I wanted this to be over months ago, so I could get more consulting from Sun's (Now Oracle's) customers.
--dave</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707078</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707572</id>
	<title>I hope Oracle tries</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263055980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the top 20 developers are bought out for a good chunk of money, that will be a huge incentive for at least another 20000 developers to try to get the same amount... by developing PostgreSQL further. I hope Oracle does it. The development of PSQL will skyrocket overnight. BTW, MySQL is being forked too, but PSQL has a better license. MySQL is junk, always has been...</p><p>My 2 cents on this non-story</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the top 20 developers are bought out for a good chunk of money , that will be a huge incentive for at least another 20000 developers to try to get the same amount... by developing PostgreSQL further .
I hope Oracle does it .
The development of PSQL will skyrocket overnight .
BTW , MySQL is being forked too , but PSQL has a better license .
MySQL is junk , always has been...My 2 cents on this non-story</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the top 20 developers are bought out for a good chunk of money, that will be a huge incentive for at least another 20000 developers to try to get the same amount... by developing PostgreSQL further.
I hope Oracle does it.
The development of PSQL will skyrocket overnight.
BTW, MySQL is being forked too, but PSQL has a better license.
MySQL is junk, always has been...My 2 cents on this non-story</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707082</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708726</id>
	<title>Re:Err...</title>
	<author>Elektroschock</author>
	<datestamp>1263066600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>PostgreSQL just works fine. Probably PostgreSQL does not need so many developer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>PostgreSQL just works fine .
Probably PostgreSQL does not need so many developer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>PostgreSQL just works fine.
Probably PostgreSQL does not need so many developer.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707362</id>
	<title>Obviously, there is one thing Oracle did</title>
	<author>smchris</author>
	<datestamp>1263053580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They released free version XE for the department/small business server.  If nothing else, that demonstrates the power of PostgreSQL to give the consumer a break in the marketplace.  Up there with Apache and OO.org as one of the premiere open source display projects.  I hope that excellence keeps them committed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They released free version XE for the department/small business server .
If nothing else , that demonstrates the power of PostgreSQL to give the consumer a break in the marketplace .
Up there with Apache and OO.org as one of the premiere open source display projects .
I hope that excellence keeps them committed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They released free version XE for the department/small business server.
If nothing else, that demonstrates the power of PostgreSQL to give the consumer a break in the marketplace.
Up there with Apache and OO.org as one of the premiere open source display projects.
I hope that excellence keeps them committed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30716364</id>
	<title>Go ahead, buy us!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263156660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If companies started "buying out" top contributors of open-source software projects, it would be the best thing to happen to OSS. Thousands of new developers would join in their place, hoping to be the next buy-out targets. It's the same logic that fuels terrorism: each "martyr" creates 20 new wannabe-martyrs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If companies started " buying out " top contributors of open-source software projects , it would be the best thing to happen to OSS .
Thousands of new developers would join in their place , hoping to be the next buy-out targets .
It 's the same logic that fuels terrorism : each " martyr " creates 20 new wannabe-martyrs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If companies started "buying out" top contributors of open-source software projects, it would be the best thing to happen to OSS.
Thousands of new developers would join in their place, hoping to be the next buy-out targets.
It's the same logic that fuels terrorism: each "martyr" creates 20 new wannabe-martyrs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707866</id>
	<title>Stallman also challenges Widenius</title>
	<author>toby</author>
	<datestamp>1263058800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Richard Stallman has clarified that he believes <a href="http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20100108114314405" title="groklaw.net">the GPL is necessary and sufficient protection for MySQL,</a> [groklaw.net] in direct contradiction to Widenius' call that the license should be changed and copyrights rest in some entity other than Oracle.</p><blockquote><div><p>Stallman: <i>One thing that makes no sense at all is the idea of changing the license of MySQL to something non-copyleft. That would eliminate the possibility of selling exceptions, but allow all sorts of proprietary modified versions. Wherever MySQL should go, it isn't there.</i></p></div> </blockquote><p> <a href="http://www.softwarefreedom.org/news/2009/dec/04/software-freedom-law-center-submits-opinion-oracle/" title="softwarefreedom.org">Eben Moglen and the Software Freedom Law Center</a> [softwarefreedom.org] defend the GPL even more strongly:</p><blockquote><div><p>"The GPL was designed specifically to ensure the permanent freedom of software, and the ability of everyone to improve and share their improvements to the program, no matter who acquires the copyrights to the code," Moglen said of the argument he presented to the Commission. "The whole point of GPL as a copyright license is to deal with every contingency that could result in hobbling or destroying the freedom of code shared under it. The drafters of GPL versions 2 and 3 considered scenarios very similar to the ones that the Commission is concerned about now. The design of the license, and the experience we have had using it, show that it can be counted upon to operate as intended in situations like this one."</p><p>Programs released under the GPL, including Linux, Samba, and the GNU Compiler Collection, have continually proven to be resistant to anti-competitive conduct in the marketplace. "GPL&rsquo;d programs competing effectively against offerings of the richest and most powerful monopoly in the history of information technology have resisted the efforts of the monopolist to find a chink in its armor," Moglen writes.</p></div></blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Richard Stallman has clarified that he believes the GPL is necessary and sufficient protection for MySQL , [ groklaw.net ] in direct contradiction to Widenius ' call that the license should be changed and copyrights rest in some entity other than Oracle.Stallman : One thing that makes no sense at all is the idea of changing the license of MySQL to something non-copyleft .
That would eliminate the possibility of selling exceptions , but allow all sorts of proprietary modified versions .
Wherever MySQL should go , it is n't there .
Eben Moglen and the Software Freedom Law Center [ softwarefreedom.org ] defend the GPL even more strongly : " The GPL was designed specifically to ensure the permanent freedom of software , and the ability of everyone to improve and share their improvements to the program , no matter who acquires the copyrights to the code , " Moglen said of the argument he presented to the Commission .
" The whole point of GPL as a copyright license is to deal with every contingency that could result in hobbling or destroying the freedom of code shared under it .
The drafters of GPL versions 2 and 3 considered scenarios very similar to the ones that the Commission is concerned about now .
The design of the license , and the experience we have had using it , show that it can be counted upon to operate as intended in situations like this one .
" Programs released under the GPL , including Linux , Samba , and the GNU Compiler Collection , have continually proven to be resistant to anti-competitive conduct in the marketplace .
" GPL    d programs competing effectively against offerings of the richest and most powerful monopoly in the history of information technology have resisted the efforts of the monopolist to find a chink in its armor , " Moglen writes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Richard Stallman has clarified that he believes the GPL is necessary and sufficient protection for MySQL, [groklaw.net] in direct contradiction to Widenius' call that the license should be changed and copyrights rest in some entity other than Oracle.Stallman: One thing that makes no sense at all is the idea of changing the license of MySQL to something non-copyleft.
That would eliminate the possibility of selling exceptions, but allow all sorts of proprietary modified versions.
Wherever MySQL should go, it isn't there.
Eben Moglen and the Software Freedom Law Center [softwarefreedom.org] defend the GPL even more strongly:"The GPL was designed specifically to ensure the permanent freedom of software, and the ability of everyone to improve and share their improvements to the program, no matter who acquires the copyrights to the code," Moglen said of the argument he presented to the Commission.
"The whole point of GPL as a copyright license is to deal with every contingency that could result in hobbling or destroying the freedom of code shared under it.
The drafters of GPL versions 2 and 3 considered scenarios very similar to the ones that the Commission is concerned about now.
The design of the license, and the experience we have had using it, show that it can be counted upon to operate as intended in situations like this one.
"Programs released under the GPL, including Linux, Samba, and the GNU Compiler Collection, have continually proven to be resistant to anti-competitive conduct in the marketplace.
"GPL’d programs competing effectively against offerings of the richest and most powerful monopoly in the history of information technology have resisted the efforts of the monopolist to find a chink in its armor," Moglen writes.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707106</id>
	<title>It would do fine</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263051060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Postgres has a diverse group of contributors so it will be absolutely nothing like Oracle acquiring MySQL. Sure it would be temporarily damaging to the project if Oracle did go out and buy the leading contributors but I can't imagine that Oracle would get away with such predatory actions.

FTR I believe that Oracle genuinely wants to use MySQL as s competitor to SQL Server in the bottom of the market.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Postgres has a diverse group of contributors so it will be absolutely nothing like Oracle acquiring MySQL .
Sure it would be temporarily damaging to the project if Oracle did go out and buy the leading contributors but I ca n't imagine that Oracle would get away with such predatory actions .
FTR I believe that Oracle genuinely wants to use MySQL as s competitor to SQL Server in the bottom of the market .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Postgres has a diverse group of contributors so it will be absolutely nothing like Oracle acquiring MySQL.
Sure it would be temporarily damaging to the project if Oracle did go out and buy the leading contributors but I can't imagine that Oracle would get away with such predatory actions.
FTR I believe that Oracle genuinely wants to use MySQL as s competitor to SQL Server in the bottom of the market.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30730588</id>
	<title>Re:Err...</title>
	<author>nurb432</author>
	<datestamp>1263211920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Then they buy the next 20... then the next.  While it may not kill a project, if it doesn't move forward it might as well be dead.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Then they buy the next 20... then the next .
While it may not kill a project , if it does n't move forward it might as well be dead .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Then they buy the next 20... then the next.
While it may not kill a project, if it doesn't move forward it might as well be dead.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707792</id>
	<title>All 20 ?</title>
	<author>daveime</author>
	<datestamp>1263058260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>according to Monty Widenius. He fears that Oracle, or someone else, can easily squash PostgreSQL by just 'buying out' the top 20 developers</i></p><p>Or in MySQL's case, just one<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... right, Monty ?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>according to Monty Widenius .
He fears that Oracle , or someone else , can easily squash PostgreSQL by just 'buying out ' the top 20 developersOr in MySQL 's case , just one ... right , Monty ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>according to Monty Widenius.
He fears that Oracle, or someone else, can easily squash PostgreSQL by just 'buying out' the top 20 developersOr in MySQL's case, just one ... right, Monty ?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707474</id>
	<title>Re:Not even Oracle is evil enough to try this</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263054660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; First, it assumes that the pgsql developers of importance can be bought.</p><p>No, first it assumes that Oracle has an interest in aquiring or stopping postgresql at all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; First , it assumes that the pgsql developers of importance can be bought.No , first it assumes that Oracle has an interest in aquiring or stopping postgresql at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; First, it assumes that the pgsql developers of importance can be bought.No, first it assumes that Oracle has an interest in aquiring or stopping postgresql at all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708950</id>
	<title>Re:Not even Oracle is evil enough to try this</title>
	<author>Blakey Rat</author>
	<datestamp>1263068460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>First, it assumes that the pgsql developers of importance can be bought.</i></p><p>The biggest assumption is that Oracle wants to do this in the first place. Microsoft has SQL Server and IBM has DB2, neither of them have tried to buy out PostGRE... Sun's been around for decades and they've never tried it before...</p><p>It's just fear-mongoring from Monty.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First , it assumes that the pgsql developers of importance can be bought.The biggest assumption is that Oracle wants to do this in the first place .
Microsoft has SQL Server and IBM has DB2 , neither of them have tried to buy out PostGRE... Sun 's been around for decades and they 've never tried it before...It 's just fear-mongoring from Monty .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First, it assumes that the pgsql developers of importance can be bought.The biggest assumption is that Oracle wants to do this in the first place.
Microsoft has SQL Server and IBM has DB2, neither of them have tried to buy out PostGRE... Sun's been around for decades and they've never tried it before...It's just fear-mongoring from Monty.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708000</id>
	<title>Re:Firebird</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263060120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yep, I don't know why people forget about it.</p><p>It has lots of features like pg and has a free license like pg but is better performing like MySQL and easier to embed than even MySQL.  Firebird beats all the others.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yep , I do n't know why people forget about it.It has lots of features like pg and has a free license like pg but is better performing like MySQL and easier to embed than even MySQL .
Firebird beats all the others .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yep, I don't know why people forget about it.It has lots of features like pg and has a free license like pg but is better performing like MySQL and easier to embed than even MySQL.
Firebird beats all the others.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707078</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30711290</id>
	<title>Re:Please name names</title>
	<author>LizardKing</author>
	<datestamp>1263046320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>I would like to have a list of serious companies using PostgreSQL for serious stuff</i> </p><p>PostgreSQL is widely used by the different government bodies that run London (in addition to the one I work for, they include Transport for London and City Hall). I'm not aware of anyone in the bodies that we deal with who use MySQL, although Oracle and SQL Server are.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would like to have a list of serious companies using PostgreSQL for serious stuff PostgreSQL is widely used by the different government bodies that run London ( in addition to the one I work for , they include Transport for London and City Hall ) .
I 'm not aware of anyone in the bodies that we deal with who use MySQL , although Oracle and SQL Server are .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> I would like to have a list of serious companies using PostgreSQL for serious stuff PostgreSQL is widely used by the different government bodies that run London (in addition to the one I work for, they include Transport for London and City Hall).
I'm not aware of anyone in the bodies that we deal with who use MySQL, although Oracle and SQL Server are.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707488</id>
	<title>Join!</title>
	<author>Goglu</author>
	<datestamp>1263054780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Maybe, just to ensure that this can't happen, he should join the PostgreSQL project and become a top contributor...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe , just to ensure that this ca n't happen , he should join the PostgreSQL project and become a top contributor.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe, just to ensure that this can't happen, he should join the PostgreSQL project and become a top contributor...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708696</id>
	<title>Re:Why trust Sun?</title>
	<author>\_Sprocket\_</author>
	<datestamp>1263066360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If a product can't be effectively forked, it's not completely open source.</p><p>If a GPL fork of MySQL isn't good enough, then whose fault is that? And what does that mean for other dual-licensed GPL+Proprietary products?</p></div><p>The only one that seems to be having trouble with this is Monty Widenius.  And it seems his issue is being unable to re-create a proprietary fork.  So if your goal is to maintain a proprietary product, and you don't own the copyright to the code, then big surprise... the GPL is an issue.  But then, that's kind of the point of the GPL.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If a product ca n't be effectively forked , it 's not completely open source.If a GPL fork of MySQL is n't good enough , then whose fault is that ?
And what does that mean for other dual-licensed GPL + Proprietary products ? The only one that seems to be having trouble with this is Monty Widenius .
And it seems his issue is being unable to re-create a proprietary fork .
So if your goal is to maintain a proprietary product , and you do n't own the copyright to the code , then big surprise... the GPL is an issue .
But then , that 's kind of the point of the GPL .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If a product can't be effectively forked, it's not completely open source.If a GPL fork of MySQL isn't good enough, then whose fault is that?
And what does that mean for other dual-licensed GPL+Proprietary products?The only one that seems to be having trouble with this is Monty Widenius.
And it seems his issue is being unable to re-create a proprietary fork.
So if your goal is to maintain a proprietary product, and you don't own the copyright to the code, then big surprise... the GPL is an issue.
But then, that's kind of the point of the GPL.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707082</id>
	<title>Widenius please move on...</title>
	<author>Bill\_the\_Engineer</author>
	<datestamp>1263050700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You got your money and now you want MySQL (or at least the spotlight) back.
</p><p>By your argument, PostgreSQL is fragile because the top 20 developers could be bought out by Oracle. If you think that's a buyout target that can be easily squashed, just think what a SQL DB with only one copyright owner can be? Oh wait, that was MySQL and we already know what you did....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You got your money and now you want MySQL ( or at least the spotlight ) back .
By your argument , PostgreSQL is fragile because the top 20 developers could be bought out by Oracle .
If you think that 's a buyout target that can be easily squashed , just think what a SQL DB with only one copyright owner can be ?
Oh wait , that was MySQL and we already know what you did... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You got your money and now you want MySQL (or at least the spotlight) back.
By your argument, PostgreSQL is fragile because the top 20 developers could be bought out by Oracle.
If you think that's a buyout target that can be easily squashed, just think what a SQL DB with only one copyright owner can be?
Oh wait, that was MySQL and we already know what you did....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707936</id>
	<title>Re:Widenius please move on...</title>
	<author>BigGerman</author>
	<datestamp>1263059640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think his statement is sort of Freudian admission that Oracle already did the same to MySQL (acting via Sun as proxy)</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think his statement is sort of Freudian admission that Oracle already did the same to MySQL ( acting via Sun as proxy )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think his statement is sort of Freudian admission that Oracle already did the same to MySQL (acting via Sun as proxy)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707082</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30710068</id>
	<title>postgresql = awesomeness</title>
	<author>timmarhy</author>
	<datestamp>1263035700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>even though i now work with sql server, i did work with postgresql for 2 years solid prior. it's a kick arse DB, containing so many features it was ms sql's equal even back then. while not as speedy out of the box as sql server or oracle in some instances, it wasn't far behind either and the price was certainly right with a great support community.<p>
monty's just an idiot, he sold mysql and now whinges about it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>even though i now work with sql server , i did work with postgresql for 2 years solid prior .
it 's a kick arse DB , containing so many features it was ms sql 's equal even back then .
while not as speedy out of the box as sql server or oracle in some instances , it was n't far behind either and the price was certainly right with a great support community .
monty 's just an idiot , he sold mysql and now whinges about it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>even though i now work with sql server, i did work with postgresql for 2 years solid prior.
it's a kick arse DB, containing so many features it was ms sql's equal even back then.
while not as speedy out of the box as sql server or oracle in some instances, it wasn't far behind either and the price was certainly right with a great support community.
monty's just an idiot, he sold mysql and now whinges about it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707870</id>
	<title>Re:Please name names</title>
	<author>jimicus</author>
	<datestamp>1263058920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>PostgreSQL users tend to shut up and get on with it quietly and efficiently.</p><p>MySQL users tend to indulge in all sorts of public willy-waving.</p><p>Much like the databases they use, in fact.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>PostgreSQL users tend to shut up and get on with it quietly and efficiently.MySQL users tend to indulge in all sorts of public willy-waving.Much like the databases they use , in fact .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>PostgreSQL users tend to shut up and get on with it quietly and efficiently.MySQL users tend to indulge in all sorts of public willy-waving.Much like the databases they use, in fact.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707702</id>
	<title>Mexico City vehicle database</title>
	<author>mapuche</author>
	<datestamp>1263057300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Back in 1998 we developed a system to manage the vehicle and drivers license database for Mexico City, all done with Perl, TK and PostgreSQL. We faced the problem with the 2GB limit size of tables, can't remember the solution.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Back in 1998 we developed a system to manage the vehicle and drivers license database for Mexico City , all done with Perl , TK and PostgreSQL .
We faced the problem with the 2GB limit size of tables , ca n't remember the solution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Back in 1998 we developed a system to manage the vehicle and drivers license database for Mexico City, all done with Perl, TK and PostgreSQL.
We faced the problem with the 2GB limit size of tables, can't remember the solution.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707580</id>
	<title>Huh Huh</title>
	<author>BUTT-H34D</author>
	<datestamp>1263056100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>He said WIDE ANUS.  Huh huh.  Heh heh.  And MOUNT.   Heh heh.</htmltext>
<tokenext>He said WIDE ANUS .
Huh huh .
Heh heh .
And MOUNT .
Heh heh .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He said WIDE ANUS.
Huh huh.
Heh heh.
And MOUNT.
Heh heh.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707244</id>
	<title>Sour grapes?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263052440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>because PostgreSQL kicks MySQL's ass in everything except market share whichever way you look at it</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>because PostgreSQL kicks MySQL 's ass in everything except market share whichever way you look at it</tokentext>
<sentencetext>because PostgreSQL kicks MySQL's ass in everything except market share whichever way you look at it</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707716</id>
	<title>Re:It is not a ridiculous claim</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263057420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is no "double speak" in the BSD license. You must be a Linux sapper shill airdropped from the hovering bazaar. That or you just don't understand the language. Linux people like to confuse the distinction between "open" and "free" all the time because it suits their current politics and their social ur-agenda. The various GPL licenses (which one is the cool one this week?) enforce openness. The BSD license allows freedom; even the freedom to do things that tick others off. That's the real world buddy boy. People sometimes piss you off because they're free entities too. It actually makes the big blue room a more interesting place.</p><p>Finally, nobody is forcing the BSD license on anyone so it is impossible for someone to "restrict the freedom of others to access <b>your</b> additional code." (Emphasis mine.) Your addition of the hitler tag is not germane here and is beneath contempt. Nice work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is no " double speak " in the BSD license .
You must be a Linux sapper shill airdropped from the hovering bazaar .
That or you just do n't understand the language .
Linux people like to confuse the distinction between " open " and " free " all the time because it suits their current politics and their social ur-agenda .
The various GPL licenses ( which one is the cool one this week ?
) enforce openness .
The BSD license allows freedom ; even the freedom to do things that tick others off .
That 's the real world buddy boy .
People sometimes piss you off because they 're free entities too .
It actually makes the big blue room a more interesting place.Finally , nobody is forcing the BSD license on anyone so it is impossible for someone to " restrict the freedom of others to access your additional code .
" ( Emphasis mine .
) Your addition of the hitler tag is not germane here and is beneath contempt .
Nice work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is no "double speak" in the BSD license.
You must be a Linux sapper shill airdropped from the hovering bazaar.
That or you just don't understand the language.
Linux people like to confuse the distinction between "open" and "free" all the time because it suits their current politics and their social ur-agenda.
The various GPL licenses (which one is the cool one this week?
) enforce openness.
The BSD license allows freedom; even the freedom to do things that tick others off.
That's the real world buddy boy.
People sometimes piss you off because they're free entities too.
It actually makes the big blue room a more interesting place.Finally, nobody is forcing the BSD license on anyone so it is impossible for someone to "restrict the freedom of others to access your additional code.
" (Emphasis mine.
) Your addition of the hitler tag is not germane here and is beneath contempt.
Nice work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707400</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707594</id>
	<title>Re:Widenius please move on...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263056220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree, In my opinion the guy is a jackass. I'm half tempted to quit using MySQL myself purely because it originated from him.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree , In my opinion the guy is a jackass .
I 'm half tempted to quit using MySQL myself purely because it originated from him .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree, In my opinion the guy is a jackass.
I'm half tempted to quit using MySQL myself purely because it originated from him.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707082</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707142</id>
	<title>Not even Oracle is evil enough to try this</title>
	<author>atomic777</author>
	<datestamp>1263051420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While he is technically correct that Oracle could just bribe the key developers to abandon pgsql, this would likely backfire.
</p><p>
First, it assumes that the pgsql developers of importance can be bought. Our world is decadent, but not everyone has a price tag
</p><p>
Second, seems Monty has been dealing with mysql code for too long. The pgsql code base (at least the parts I've seen) is significantly more pleasant to work with than MySQL's, and the sheer number of projects building off of it, commercial or OSS (due to BSD licence) are a testament to how accessible it is. Even if all of the current developers were to be bribed and stopped working on postgresql, there would be a significant incentive for other parties to step in and pick up the slack, given that postgresql has a sizable user base, and especially since it is now widely seen as the heir-apparent to mysql as the open-source rdbms of choice for your run-of-the-mill applications.
</p><p>
Add on top of that the bad press from a failed attempt to use such questionable tactics, and I think not even Oracle is greedy or dumb enough to try anything.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While he is technically correct that Oracle could just bribe the key developers to abandon pgsql , this would likely backfire .
First , it assumes that the pgsql developers of importance can be bought .
Our world is decadent , but not everyone has a price tag Second , seems Monty has been dealing with mysql code for too long .
The pgsql code base ( at least the parts I 've seen ) is significantly more pleasant to work with than MySQL 's , and the sheer number of projects building off of it , commercial or OSS ( due to BSD licence ) are a testament to how accessible it is .
Even if all of the current developers were to be bribed and stopped working on postgresql , there would be a significant incentive for other parties to step in and pick up the slack , given that postgresql has a sizable user base , and especially since it is now widely seen as the heir-apparent to mysql as the open-source rdbms of choice for your run-of-the-mill applications .
Add on top of that the bad press from a failed attempt to use such questionable tactics , and I think not even Oracle is greedy or dumb enough to try anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While he is technically correct that Oracle could just bribe the key developers to abandon pgsql, this would likely backfire.
First, it assumes that the pgsql developers of importance can be bought.
Our world is decadent, but not everyone has a price tag

Second, seems Monty has been dealing with mysql code for too long.
The pgsql code base (at least the parts I've seen) is significantly more pleasant to work with than MySQL's, and the sheer number of projects building off of it, commercial or OSS (due to BSD licence) are a testament to how accessible it is.
Even if all of the current developers were to be bribed and stopped working on postgresql, there would be a significant incentive for other parties to step in and pick up the slack, given that postgresql has a sizable user base, and especially since it is now widely seen as the heir-apparent to mysql as the open-source rdbms of choice for your run-of-the-mill applications.
Add on top of that the bad press from a failed attempt to use such questionable tactics, and I think not even Oracle is greedy or dumb enough to try anything.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707220</id>
	<title>Please name names</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263052200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would like to have a list of serious companies using PostgreSQL for serious stuff...and what stuff it is PostgreSQL is doing. In my world, all you hear is "...MySQL...MySQL...", even in cases where the back-end is being handled by PostgreSQL.</p><p>Our three major DBs have about 13.4 million records combined, with enormous amounts of data about clients. PostgreSQL has never failed us. I work in the insurance business.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would like to have a list of serious companies using PostgreSQL for serious stuff...and what stuff it is PostgreSQL is doing .
In my world , all you hear is " ...MySQL...MySQL... " , even in cases where the back-end is being handled by PostgreSQL.Our three major DBs have about 13.4 million records combined , with enormous amounts of data about clients .
PostgreSQL has never failed us .
I work in the insurance business .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would like to have a list of serious companies using PostgreSQL for serious stuff...and what stuff it is PostgreSQL is doing.
In my world, all you hear is "...MySQL...MySQL...", even in cases where the back-end is being handled by PostgreSQL.Our three major DBs have about 13.4 million records combined, with enormous amounts of data about clients.
PostgreSQL has never failed us.
I work in the insurance business.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30713402</id>
	<title>Re:Please name names</title>
	<author>deniable</author>
	<datestamp>1263116820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Trend Micro bundles it with some of their gateways. Nortel uses it in its Telephony Manager. I've seen it bundled with other systems. It's taken off with the native Windows build.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Trend Micro bundles it with some of their gateways .
Nortel uses it in its Telephony Manager .
I 've seen it bundled with other systems .
It 's taken off with the native Windows build .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Trend Micro bundles it with some of their gateways.
Nortel uses it in its Telephony Manager.
I've seen it bundled with other systems.
It's taken off with the native Windows build.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30709966</id>
	<title>Re:Widenius please move on...</title>
	<author>Briareos</author>
	<datestamp>1263034740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That reminds me of that old C-64 game, "Auf Wiedersehen Monty"...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That reminds me of that old C-64 game , " Auf Wiedersehen Monty " .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That reminds me of that old C-64 game, "Auf Wiedersehen Monty"...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707082</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30713524</id>
	<title>Re:Please name names</title>
	<author>shish</author>
	<datestamp>1263119520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>MySQL as a racehorse, no other horses can compete for speed when running around a short track (IE read-mostly website)</p></div><p>&lt;anecdote&gt;My read-mostly website started out on mysql, and ground to a halt around 500 users; after adding loads of ugly mysql-specific hacks it just about managed 800 -- then I switched to postgres with the original simple elegant queries, and it's run fine, recently breaking 2000 users with the same hardware&lt;/anecdote&gt;</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>MySQL as a racehorse , no other horses can compete for speed when running around a short track ( IE read-mostly website ) My read-mostly website started out on mysql , and ground to a halt around 500 users ; after adding loads of ugly mysql-specific hacks it just about managed 800 -- then I switched to postgres with the original simple elegant queries , and it 's run fine , recently breaking 2000 users with the same hardware</tokentext>
<sentencetext>MySQL as a racehorse, no other horses can compete for speed when running around a short track (IE read-mostly website)My read-mostly website started out on mysql, and ground to a halt around 500 users; after adding loads of ugly mysql-specific hacks it just about managed 800 -- then I switched to postgres with the original simple elegant queries, and it's run fine, recently breaking 2000 users with the same hardware
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30709380</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30741164</id>
	<title>Re:I had the privilege...</title>
	<author>bill\_mcgonigle</author>
	<datestamp>1263326640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>He seems to think it needs heroes, and that the rest of us plebes need someone to follow before we can get anything useful done.</i></p><p>Ah, and so if he filed that role in early MySQL, then he's a hero.</p><p>Interesting insight - I guess some people need to have something to delude their time after they've sold out.</p><p>Folks like Woz spend it volunteering at schools, perhaps others should magnanimously follow suit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He seems to think it needs heroes , and that the rest of us plebes need someone to follow before we can get anything useful done.Ah , and so if he filed that role in early MySQL , then he 's a hero.Interesting insight - I guess some people need to have something to delude their time after they 've sold out.Folks like Woz spend it volunteering at schools , perhaps others should magnanimously follow suit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He seems to think it needs heroes, and that the rest of us plebes need someone to follow before we can get anything useful done.Ah, and so if he filed that role in early MySQL, then he's a hero.Interesting insight - I guess some people need to have something to delude their time after they've sold out.Folks like Woz spend it volunteering at schools, perhaps others should magnanimously follow suit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707930</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30709486</id>
	<title>new developers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263029700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>10 PRINT "A big payout encourages the next 20 top developers to get up to speed quickly in the hope of yet another payout"<br>20 PRINT "Big corp buys out developers"<br>30 GOTO 10</p><p>I miss my TRS-80 and the cassette recorder.....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>10 PRINT " A big payout encourages the next 20 top developers to get up to speed quickly in the hope of yet another payout " 20 PRINT " Big corp buys out developers " 30 GOTO 10I miss my TRS-80 and the cassette recorder.... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>10 PRINT "A big payout encourages the next 20 top developers to get up to speed quickly in the hope of yet another payout"20 PRINT "Big corp buys out developers"30 GOTO 10I miss my TRS-80 and the cassette recorder.....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30709276</id>
	<title>Re:Err...</title>
	<author>h4rm0ny</author>
	<datestamp>1263027960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><br>
Just to add even more to your good points, a company like Oracle has contractual protections in place for their most valued developers. Well, I don't actually know this, but I'm sure it must be so. Say Mr. Top Developer is on three month's notice. He announces he's been hired away by IBM. No doubt he or she would immediately be assigned the task of training up some very savvy developers for those remaining three months.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just to add even more to your good points , a company like Oracle has contractual protections in place for their most valued developers .
Well , I do n't actually know this , but I 'm sure it must be so .
Say Mr. Top Developer is on three month 's notice .
He announces he 's been hired away by IBM .
No doubt he or she would immediately be assigned the task of training up some very savvy developers for those remaining three months .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Just to add even more to your good points, a company like Oracle has contractual protections in place for their most valued developers.
Well, I don't actually know this, but I'm sure it must be so.
Say Mr. Top Developer is on three month's notice.
He announces he's been hired away by IBM.
No doubt he or she would immediately be assigned the task of training up some very savvy developers for those remaining three months.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708752</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30730604</id>
	<title>Re:Not even Oracle is evil enough to try this</title>
	<author>nurb432</author>
	<datestamp>1263212040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>While he is technically correct that Oracle could just bribe the key developers to abandon pgsql, this would likely backfire.</p><p>First, it assumes that the pgsql developers of importance can be bought. Our world is decadent, but not everyone has a price tag</p></div><p>No, everyone does have a price. The question is if that price is too high to be feasible. And who says hiring them is a bribe? If you get hired away to work on other projects, its called getting another job, not being bribed. Happens every day.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>While he is technically correct that Oracle could just bribe the key developers to abandon pgsql , this would likely backfire.First , it assumes that the pgsql developers of importance can be bought .
Our world is decadent , but not everyone has a price tagNo , everyone does have a price .
The question is if that price is too high to be feasible .
And who says hiring them is a bribe ?
If you get hired away to work on other projects , its called getting another job , not being bribed .
Happens every day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While he is technically correct that Oracle could just bribe the key developers to abandon pgsql, this would likely backfire.First, it assumes that the pgsql developers of importance can be bought.
Our world is decadent, but not everyone has a price tagNo, everyone does have a price.
The question is if that price is too high to be feasible.
And who says hiring them is a bribe?
If you get hired away to work on other projects, its called getting another job, not being bribed.
Happens every day.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707404</id>
	<title>Re:Please name names</title>
	<author>gbjbaanb</author>
	<datestamp>1263053940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It'll be difficult to say who's using it because they download it, try it, run it.. all quietly without fuss. No-one at PostgreSQL website can say who's using the downloads because there's no licensing or even a 'email to get your registration' type stuff going on.</p><p>I can tell you that 3 large UK emergency service centres (the 911 callcentres) use PostgreSQL for handling the incoming 999 calls. Its been used for some time now and we've not had a major failure (I don't think we've had a single failure of any type come to that).</p><p>Taking calls for the emergency services is as serious as you can get. It's even more serious if you're the one who wants an ambulance!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 'll be difficult to say who 's using it because they download it , try it , run it.. all quietly without fuss .
No-one at PostgreSQL website can say who 's using the downloads because there 's no licensing or even a 'email to get your registration ' type stuff going on.I can tell you that 3 large UK emergency service centres ( the 911 callcentres ) use PostgreSQL for handling the incoming 999 calls .
Its been used for some time now and we 've not had a major failure ( I do n't think we 've had a single failure of any type come to that ) .Taking calls for the emergency services is as serious as you can get .
It 's even more serious if you 're the one who wants an ambulance !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It'll be difficult to say who's using it because they download it, try it, run it.. all quietly without fuss.
No-one at PostgreSQL website can say who's using the downloads because there's no licensing or even a 'email to get your registration' type stuff going on.I can tell you that 3 large UK emergency service centres (the 911 callcentres) use PostgreSQL for handling the incoming 999 calls.
Its been used for some time now and we've not had a major failure (I don't think we've had a single failure of any type come to that).Taking calls for the emergency services is as serious as you can get.
It's even more serious if you're the one who wants an ambulance!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30712974</id>
	<title>Re:What I don't understand is...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263065340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>FYI, Pgsql is BSD licensed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>FYI , Pgsql is BSD licensed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FYI, Pgsql is BSD licensed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708134</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707758</id>
	<title>Wrong</title>
	<author>microbox</author>
	<datestamp>1263057960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>He sold MySQL to Sun and then left Sun.</i> <br>
<br>
That is factually inaccurate. He was informed that the sale had taken place once it was done. The mistake Monty made was to sell MySQL to shareholders years ago. It probably wasn't a mistake either, although there should have been a clause in the shareholder agreement about the resale of MySQL.</htmltext>
<tokenext>He sold MySQL to Sun and then left Sun .
That is factually inaccurate .
He was informed that the sale had taken place once it was done .
The mistake Monty made was to sell MySQL to shareholders years ago .
It probably was n't a mistake either , although there should have been a clause in the shareholder agreement about the resale of MySQL .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He sold MySQL to Sun and then left Sun.
That is factually inaccurate.
He was informed that the sale had taken place once it was done.
The mistake Monty made was to sell MySQL to shareholders years ago.
It probably wasn't a mistake either, although there should have been a clause in the shareholder agreement about the resale of MySQL.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708020</id>
	<title>differences</title>
	<author>brennz</author>
	<datestamp>1263060240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Postgresql has a more robust, decentralized community of ISVs and developers than did MysqlAB.  The BSD license contributes to this loose federation of collective developers because no one company runs the show. <br> <br>

Furthermore, the folks in #postgresql on irc.freenode.net are superb.  <a href="http://people.planetpostgresql.org/dfetter/" title="planetpostgresql.org">David Fetter</a> [planetpostgresql.org] is the man!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Postgresql has a more robust , decentralized community of ISVs and developers than did MysqlAB .
The BSD license contributes to this loose federation of collective developers because no one company runs the show .
Furthermore , the folks in # postgresql on irc.freenode.net are superb .
David Fetter [ planetpostgresql.org ] is the man !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Postgresql has a more robust, decentralized community of ISVs and developers than did MysqlAB.
The BSD license contributes to this loose federation of collective developers because no one company runs the show.
Furthermore, the folks in #postgresql on irc.freenode.net are superb.
David Fetter [planetpostgresql.org] is the man!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30708752</id>
	<title>Re:Err...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263066780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The argument doesn't really make sense, because Oracle is vulnerable to the same tactic. What would happen if IBM offered even $1m to each of Oracle's top database programmers to quit?</i></p><p>That would cause a problem for any organization, of course. But both Oracle and PostgreSQL have established policies and lots of historical precedent that guide new developers and project leaders while they are getting up to speed and filling empty roles. For instance, what happens when a significant patch hits the pgsql-hackers list that implements a new feature? Discussion begins, and then it goes on a public commit-fest page (http://commitfest.postgresql.org). When the commitfest begins, everyone stops work on their own patches, reviewers get assigned to patches, and after it passes review then a committer reviews it again and potentially commits it.</p><p>With policies like that in place, as a few developers are hired away it's much easier for new developers to take their place. You don't get lopsided efforts. How does postgresql find enough reviewers? Reviewing is that much fun? No. If you don't review at commit fest time, then your patch is either ignored or at the back of the line.</p><p>What happens when a patch hits the mysql list from a random contributor? Well, we don't really know, because MySQL isn't really a community project. They only know how to get patches committed and releases out the door from within MySQL AB (and that could obviously be questioned as well, seeing how long they went without a release, and the problems that happened when they did release, like Monty saying it wasn't ready).</p><p>It's much easier to cause major damage to a disorganized project like MySQL.</p><p>I believe MariaDB and Drizzle are both attempting to establish a real community project (notice I didn't say "re-establish"). I hope they succeed for the sake of MySQL users. But new users would be wise to count on a real organization like the PostgreSQL Global Development Group and it's established policies (or Oracle, for that matter).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The argument does n't really make sense , because Oracle is vulnerable to the same tactic .
What would happen if IBM offered even $ 1m to each of Oracle 's top database programmers to quit ? That would cause a problem for any organization , of course .
But both Oracle and PostgreSQL have established policies and lots of historical precedent that guide new developers and project leaders while they are getting up to speed and filling empty roles .
For instance , what happens when a significant patch hits the pgsql-hackers list that implements a new feature ?
Discussion begins , and then it goes on a public commit-fest page ( http : //commitfest.postgresql.org ) .
When the commitfest begins , everyone stops work on their own patches , reviewers get assigned to patches , and after it passes review then a committer reviews it again and potentially commits it.With policies like that in place , as a few developers are hired away it 's much easier for new developers to take their place .
You do n't get lopsided efforts .
How does postgresql find enough reviewers ?
Reviewing is that much fun ?
No. If you do n't review at commit fest time , then your patch is either ignored or at the back of the line.What happens when a patch hits the mysql list from a random contributor ?
Well , we do n't really know , because MySQL is n't really a community project .
They only know how to get patches committed and releases out the door from within MySQL AB ( and that could obviously be questioned as well , seeing how long they went without a release , and the problems that happened when they did release , like Monty saying it was n't ready ) .It 's much easier to cause major damage to a disorganized project like MySQL.I believe MariaDB and Drizzle are both attempting to establish a real community project ( notice I did n't say " re-establish " ) .
I hope they succeed for the sake of MySQL users .
But new users would be wise to count on a real organization like the PostgreSQL Global Development Group and it 's established policies ( or Oracle , for that matter ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The argument doesn't really make sense, because Oracle is vulnerable to the same tactic.
What would happen if IBM offered even $1m to each of Oracle's top database programmers to quit?That would cause a problem for any organization, of course.
But both Oracle and PostgreSQL have established policies and lots of historical precedent that guide new developers and project leaders while they are getting up to speed and filling empty roles.
For instance, what happens when a significant patch hits the pgsql-hackers list that implements a new feature?
Discussion begins, and then it goes on a public commit-fest page (http://commitfest.postgresql.org).
When the commitfest begins, everyone stops work on their own patches, reviewers get assigned to patches, and after it passes review then a committer reviews it again and potentially commits it.With policies like that in place, as a few developers are hired away it's much easier for new developers to take their place.
You don't get lopsided efforts.
How does postgresql find enough reviewers?
Reviewing is that much fun?
No. If you don't review at commit fest time, then your patch is either ignored or at the back of the line.What happens when a patch hits the mysql list from a random contributor?
Well, we don't really know, because MySQL isn't really a community project.
They only know how to get patches committed and releases out the door from within MySQL AB (and that could obviously be questioned as well, seeing how long they went without a release, and the problems that happened when they did release, like Monty saying it wasn't ready).It's much easier to cause major damage to a disorganized project like MySQL.I believe MariaDB and Drizzle are both attempting to establish a real community project (notice I didn't say "re-establish").
I hope they succeed for the sake of MySQL users.
But new users would be wise to count on a real organization like the PostgreSQL Global Development Group and it's established policies (or Oracle, for that matter).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707436</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707534</id>
	<title>Re:Because it's open source and they can't control</title>
	<author>maxume</author>
	<datestamp>1263055320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do you mean to say that you do not chew gum on principle?</p><p>And you claim that passing over $1,000 for this 'principle' was a good idea?</p><p>Really?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you mean to say that you do not chew gum on principle ? And you claim that passing over $ 1,000 for this 'principle ' was a good idea ? Really ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you mean to say that you do not chew gum on principle?And you claim that passing over $1,000 for this 'principle' was a good idea?Really?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_09_136244.30707256</parent>
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