<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_01_03_2018247</id>
	<title>How Norway Fought Staph Infections</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1262507520000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>eldavojohn writes <i>"Studies are showing that <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091231/ap\_on\_re\_us/when\_drugs\_stop\_working\_norway\_s\_answer">Norway's dirtiest hospitals are actually cleaner than most other countries'</a>, and the reason for this is that Norwegians stopped taking antibiotics.  A number of factors like paid sick leave and now restrictions on advertising for drugs make Norway an anomaly when it comes to diseases like Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA).  A Norwegian doctor explains, 'We don't throw antibiotics at every person with a fever. We tell them to hang on, wait and see, and we give them a Tylenol to feel better.'  Norway is the most MRSA free country in the world.  In a country like Japan, where 17,000 die from MRSA every year, 'doctors overprescribe antibiotics because they are given financial incentives to push drugs on patients.'"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>eldavojohn writes " Studies are showing that Norway 's dirtiest hospitals are actually cleaner than most other countries ' , and the reason for this is that Norwegians stopped taking antibiotics .
A number of factors like paid sick leave and now restrictions on advertising for drugs make Norway an anomaly when it comes to diseases like Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus ( MRSA ) .
A Norwegian doctor explains , 'We do n't throw antibiotics at every person with a fever .
We tell them to hang on , wait and see , and we give them a Tylenol to feel better .
' Norway is the most MRSA free country in the world .
In a country like Japan , where 17,000 die from MRSA every year , 'doctors overprescribe antibiotics because they are given financial incentives to push drugs on patients .
' "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>eldavojohn writes "Studies are showing that Norway's dirtiest hospitals are actually cleaner than most other countries', and the reason for this is that Norwegians stopped taking antibiotics.
A number of factors like paid sick leave and now restrictions on advertising for drugs make Norway an anomaly when it comes to diseases like Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA).
A Norwegian doctor explains, 'We don't throw antibiotics at every person with a fever.
We tell them to hang on, wait and see, and we give them a Tylenol to feel better.
'  Norway is the most MRSA free country in the world.
In a country like Japan, where 17,000 die from MRSA every year, 'doctors overprescribe antibiotics because they are given financial incentives to push drugs on patients.
'"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634726</id>
	<title>Score 0, Captain Obvious</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262517120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>On behalf of all people capable of understanding the ramifications of natural (or in this case, artificial selection):  "Duh."  Good story about a country which resists the temptation to medicate into oblivion, with obvious positive results.  Drugs have their place, but blasting any and everyone with them JUST IN CASE THEY *** MIGHT *** help is not... a good... idea.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>On behalf of all people capable of understanding the ramifications of natural ( or in this case , artificial selection ) : " Duh .
" Good story about a country which resists the temptation to medicate into oblivion , with obvious positive results .
Drugs have their place , but blasting any and everyone with them JUST IN CASE THEY * * * MIGHT * * * help is not... a good... idea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On behalf of all people capable of understanding the ramifications of natural (or in this case, artificial selection):  "Duh.
"  Good story about a country which resists the temptation to medicate into oblivion, with obvious positive results.
Drugs have their place, but blasting any and everyone with them JUST IN CASE THEY *** MIGHT *** help is not... a good... idea.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634418</id>
	<title>Re:And when the arm has to come off...</title>
	<author>Nemyst</author>
	<datestamp>1262514840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You know, this is why they do something called follow-up care. When you get something which could potentially be dangerous, you get watched for the time normally necessary for the infection to start showing symptoms. Giving antibiotics left and right for every dog bite (which are very seldom infected) would only end up creating resistant illnesses and THEN you'd be utterly screwed. You'd get bit, get antibiotics, still get infected, get more antibiotics and end up with an arm gone. I'm sure that's what you want to happen.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You know , this is why they do something called follow-up care .
When you get something which could potentially be dangerous , you get watched for the time normally necessary for the infection to start showing symptoms .
Giving antibiotics left and right for every dog bite ( which are very seldom infected ) would only end up creating resistant illnesses and THEN you 'd be utterly screwed .
You 'd get bit , get antibiotics , still get infected , get more antibiotics and end up with an arm gone .
I 'm sure that 's what you want to happen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know, this is why they do something called follow-up care.
When you get something which could potentially be dangerous, you get watched for the time normally necessary for the infection to start showing symptoms.
Giving antibiotics left and right for every dog bite (which are very seldom infected) would only end up creating resistant illnesses and THEN you'd be utterly screwed.
You'd get bit, get antibiotics, still get infected, get more antibiotics and end up with an arm gone.
I'm sure that's what you want to happen.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634898</id>
	<title>Re:Tip for USA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262518200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;&gt; and can freely tell their patients to bugger<br>Wow, I want to say that to my clients! I'd just need to assert that they leave me out of it...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; &gt; and can freely tell their patients to buggerWow , I want to say that to my clients !
I 'd just need to assert that they leave me out of it.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;&gt; and can freely tell their patients to buggerWow, I want to say that to my clients!
I'd just need to assert that they leave me out of it...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634342</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30636240</id>
	<title>Re:The People Problem</title>
	<author>jbengt</author>
	<datestamp>1262527440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In general, the absolute worst thing you can do for your health is go into the hospital.</p> </div><p>The statistic I heard many years ago when I worked in a hosptial was that on average 20\% of hospital patients got an infection from their stay at the hospital.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In general , the absolute worst thing you can do for your health is go into the hospital .
The statistic I heard many years ago when I worked in a hosptial was that on average 20 \ % of hospital patients got an infection from their stay at the hospital .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In general, the absolute worst thing you can do for your health is go into the hospital.
The statistic I heard many years ago when I worked in a hosptial was that on average 20\% of hospital patients got an infection from their stay at the hospital.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634390</id>
	<title>Cold climate?</title>
	<author>kprsa</author>
	<datestamp>1262514360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Germs and infections may also be less common due to the cold Scandinavian climate.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Germs and infections may also be less common due to the cold Scandinavian climate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Germs and infections may also be less common due to the cold Scandinavian climate.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30637732</id>
	<title>Re:And when the arm has to come off...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262542920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Infections in open wounds are VERY obvious VERY rapidly.  She should have been checked daily for the next few days and the first sign of infection could have been treated with high dose antibiotics with no negative effect.</p><p>If you let it get so bad that your arm is nearly off, you have waited too long and have very poor medical judgment or education.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Infections in open wounds are VERY obvious VERY rapidly .
She should have been checked daily for the next few days and the first sign of infection could have been treated with high dose antibiotics with no negative effect.If you let it get so bad that your arm is nearly off , you have waited too long and have very poor medical judgment or education .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Infections in open wounds are VERY obvious VERY rapidly.
She should have been checked daily for the next few days and the first sign of infection could have been treated with high dose antibiotics with no negative effect.If you let it get so bad that your arm is nearly off, you have waited too long and have very poor medical judgment or education.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634428</id>
	<title>Re:How did they do this?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262514960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I've heard a number of international folks complain that antibiotics are almost never prescribed in the UK and yet a number of UK hospitals have had MRSA outbreaks. Does anyone have a league table of the cleanliness of each country's hospitals?</p></div><p>Really? When I was in the UK I got a sore throat and went to the doctor to see if it was strep. I thought he would do a throat swab and culture (like they do in the USA) but instead he just prescribed some penicillin right away. From my perspective, at least, this is over-prescription of antibiotics.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've heard a number of international folks complain that antibiotics are almost never prescribed in the UK and yet a number of UK hospitals have had MRSA outbreaks .
Does anyone have a league table of the cleanliness of each country 's hospitals ? Really ?
When I was in the UK I got a sore throat and went to the doctor to see if it was strep .
I thought he would do a throat swab and culture ( like they do in the USA ) but instead he just prescribed some penicillin right away .
From my perspective , at least , this is over-prescription of antibiotics .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've heard a number of international folks complain that antibiotics are almost never prescribed in the UK and yet a number of UK hospitals have had MRSA outbreaks.
Does anyone have a league table of the cleanliness of each country's hospitals?Really?
When I was in the UK I got a sore throat and went to the doctor to see if it was strep.
I thought he would do a throat swab and culture (like they do in the USA) but instead he just prescribed some penicillin right away.
From my perspective, at least, this is over-prescription of antibiotics.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634112</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30635298</id>
	<title>Re:Did someone in Norway really say 'Tylenol' ?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262520780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nobody says 'Tylenol' in Norway (since it doesn't exist here), but we do say 'Paracetamol'. It was probably an adaptation by the journalist so the majority of US readers would know that a simple analgesic can be used as a doctor's visit consolation prize. That being said, isn't 'Tylenol' on its way to become a generic word? Just curious<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nobody says 'Tylenol ' in Norway ( since it does n't exist here ) , but we do say 'Paracetamol' .
It was probably an adaptation by the journalist so the majority of US readers would know that a simple analgesic can be used as a doctor 's visit consolation prize .
That being said , is n't 'Tylenol ' on its way to become a generic word ?
Just curious .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nobody says 'Tylenol' in Norway (since it doesn't exist here), but we do say 'Paracetamol'.
It was probably an adaptation by the journalist so the majority of US readers would know that a simple analgesic can be used as a doctor's visit consolation prize.
That being said, isn't 'Tylenol' on its way to become a generic word?
Just curious ...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634142</id>
	<title>And when the arm has to come off...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262512620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...because the dogbite was infected (as they usually are)?  Oh, well.  Prosthetics are pretty good these days.  This very nearly happened to an acquaintance of mine.  Fortunately three days in the hospital on an antibiotic drip saved the arm.  Twenty years ago they would have given her antibiotics in the ER as a matter of course for an animal bite.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...because the dogbite was infected ( as they usually are ) ?
Oh , well .
Prosthetics are pretty good these days .
This very nearly happened to an acquaintance of mine .
Fortunately three days in the hospital on an antibiotic drip saved the arm .
Twenty years ago they would have given her antibiotics in the ER as a matter of course for an animal bite .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...because the dogbite was infected (as they usually are)?
Oh, well.
Prosthetics are pretty good these days.
This very nearly happened to an acquaintance of mine.
Fortunately three days in the hospital on an antibiotic drip saved the arm.
Twenty years ago they would have given her antibiotics in the ER as a matter of course for an animal bite.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30636432</id>
	<title>Re:This will work until Big Pharm (tm) patents it.</title>
	<author>ignavus</author>
	<datestamp>1262529180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I can see it now: Method and process for reducing MRSA infections by not using drugs.</p><p>Don't even try it without paying.</p></div><p>Just wait until they have Genetically-Modified MRSA and you won't even be allowed to catch the infections without paying for it!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I can see it now : Method and process for reducing MRSA infections by not using drugs.Do n't even try it without paying.Just wait until they have Genetically-Modified MRSA and you wo n't even be allowed to catch the infections without paying for it !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can see it now: Method and process for reducing MRSA infections by not using drugs.Don't even try it without paying.Just wait until they have Genetically-Modified MRSA and you won't even be allowed to catch the infections without paying for it!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634050</id>
	<title>The People Problem</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262512020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>While the doctors writing out scrips for antibiotics does play a role, one of the major factors should be patient education.  A lot of people think that antibiotics should be used for minor complaints, such as colds.  In addition, one major cause of superbugs is the failure of patients to complete a course of antibiotics.  They feel better, so they simply stop taking the medications.</htmltext>
<tokenext>While the doctors writing out scrips for antibiotics does play a role , one of the major factors should be patient education .
A lot of people think that antibiotics should be used for minor complaints , such as colds .
In addition , one major cause of superbugs is the failure of patients to complete a course of antibiotics .
They feel better , so they simply stop taking the medications .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While the doctors writing out scrips for antibiotics does play a role, one of the major factors should be patient education.
A lot of people think that antibiotics should be used for minor complaints, such as colds.
In addition, one major cause of superbugs is the failure of patients to complete a course of antibiotics.
They feel better, so they simply stop taking the medications.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30638612</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262598780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Antibiotics are used very sparingly. UK farmers use about 20 times the Norwegian amount (per kilo).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Antibiotics are used very sparingly .
UK farmers use about 20 times the Norwegian amount ( per kilo ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Antibiotics are used very sparingly.
UK farmers use about 20 times the Norwegian amount (per kilo).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30676530</id>
	<title>Re:It's not just the antibiotics that are a proble</title>
	<author>Gaffod</author>
	<datestamp>1262780280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Years ago, there were no fancy drugs or somesuch</p></div><p>Instead they'd zap your brain with voltage so high the convulsions break bones, or just give you a good ol' lobotomy. None of this new-fangled "pill" stuff. And, hell, who needs that fancy shmancy electricity business? Just stick 'em crazies in a centrifuge and let it rip!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Years ago , there were no fancy drugs or somesuchInstead they 'd zap your brain with voltage so high the convulsions break bones , or just give you a good ol ' lobotomy .
None of this new-fangled " pill " stuff .
And , hell , who needs that fancy shmancy electricity business ?
Just stick 'em crazies in a centrifuge and let it rip !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Years ago, there were no fancy drugs or somesuchInstead they'd zap your brain with voltage so high the convulsions break bones, or just give you a good ol' lobotomy.
None of this new-fangled "pill" stuff.
And, hell, who needs that fancy shmancy electricity business?
Just stick 'em crazies in a centrifuge and let it rip!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634968</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634276</id>
	<title>Re:This article is so RIGHT</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262513640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>'Doctors prescribe antibiotics not because they are necessary, but because they are heckled by patients who want a prescription to justify their trip to the doctor's office and because they are encouraged by pharmaceutical companies to move their products.'</i></p><p>It appears to me that training in professional ethics should be included in the medical curriculum and perhaps required (and enforced) for licensing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>'Doctors prescribe antibiotics not because they are necessary , but because they are heckled by patients who want a prescription to justify their trip to the doctor 's office and because they are encouraged by pharmaceutical companies to move their products .
'It appears to me that training in professional ethics should be included in the medical curriculum and perhaps required ( and enforced ) for licensing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'Doctors prescribe antibiotics not because they are necessary, but because they are heckled by patients who want a prescription to justify their trip to the doctor's office and because they are encouraged by pharmaceutical companies to move their products.
'It appears to me that training in professional ethics should be included in the medical curriculum and perhaps required (and enforced) for licensing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634130</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634342</id>
	<title>Tip for USA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262514060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>In Scandinavia, most doctors are government employees.  They have no incentive for prescribing anything and can freely tell their patients to bugger if they ask for useless drugs.  Yes, there are disadvantages to "communist" healthcare, but this story shows there are also some clear advantages.  A Belgian Doctor once told me he believed antibiotics should be given as a <b> prevention</b> to all kindergarten kids.  A Danish study showed you can cut sick days in kindergartens <b>by half</b> by forcing all children to wash their hands twice a day.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In Scandinavia , most doctors are government employees .
They have no incentive for prescribing anything and can freely tell their patients to bugger if they ask for useless drugs .
Yes , there are disadvantages to " communist " healthcare , but this story shows there are also some clear advantages .
A Belgian Doctor once told me he believed antibiotics should be given as a prevention to all kindergarten kids .
A Danish study showed you can cut sick days in kindergartens by half by forcing all children to wash their hands twice a day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In Scandinavia, most doctors are government employees.
They have no incentive for prescribing anything and can freely tell their patients to bugger if they ask for useless drugs.
Yes, there are disadvantages to "communist" healthcare, but this story shows there are also some clear advantages.
A Belgian Doctor once told me he believed antibiotics should be given as a  prevention to all kindergarten kids.
A Danish study showed you can cut sick days in kindergartens by half by forcing all children to wash their hands twice a day.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634004</id>
	<title>Stop with the drugs already</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262511600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Endure non-life-threatening illnesses without drugs, it helps you build an immune system. Taking drugs means your body never learns to fend for itself, like a spoiled brat.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Endure non-life-threatening illnesses without drugs , it helps you build an immune system .
Taking drugs means your body never learns to fend for itself , like a spoiled brat .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Endure non-life-threatening illnesses without drugs, it helps you build an immune system.
Taking drugs means your body never learns to fend for itself, like a spoiled brat.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634626</id>
	<title>Re:Um, this is real easy to go to far with</title>
	<author>Theleton</author>
	<datestamp>1262516400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, if a small scratch got infected in 1200 AD, your body's immune system would most likely fight it off and you'd be fine. Just like it would today. Sure, in some cases your immune system might be weak or you might have got a more aggressive bug, and you would end up with septicemia and die (or tetanus, in those pre-vaccine days), but generally a minor infection would not be, and is not, fatal.</p><p>I certainly don't advocate living without antibiotics, but if I get a non-serious infection I still wait a few days to let my immune system have a crack at it before I call up a doctor (unless it's worsening or particularly painful, of course).</p><p>Hygiene, vaccines and nutrition are very likely nearly as important factors as antibiotics in the rise of life expectancy since the middle ages.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , if a small scratch got infected in 1200 AD , your body 's immune system would most likely fight it off and you 'd be fine .
Just like it would today .
Sure , in some cases your immune system might be weak or you might have got a more aggressive bug , and you would end up with septicemia and die ( or tetanus , in those pre-vaccine days ) , but generally a minor infection would not be , and is not , fatal.I certainly do n't advocate living without antibiotics , but if I get a non-serious infection I still wait a few days to let my immune system have a crack at it before I call up a doctor ( unless it 's worsening or particularly painful , of course ) .Hygiene , vaccines and nutrition are very likely nearly as important factors as antibiotics in the rise of life expectancy since the middle ages .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, if a small scratch got infected in 1200 AD, your body's immune system would most likely fight it off and you'd be fine.
Just like it would today.
Sure, in some cases your immune system might be weak or you might have got a more aggressive bug, and you would end up with septicemia and die (or tetanus, in those pre-vaccine days), but generally a minor infection would not be, and is not, fatal.I certainly don't advocate living without antibiotics, but if I get a non-serious infection I still wait a few days to let my immune system have a crack at it before I call up a doctor (unless it's worsening or particularly painful, of course).Hygiene, vaccines and nutrition are very likely nearly as important factors as antibiotics in the rise of life expectancy since the middle ages.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634340</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30636014</id>
	<title>Re:This article is so RIGHT</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262526060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No - It is almost all of it due to policy - It has been like that for a long time -<br>People tend to live in excellent housing heated to 22 Degree Centigrade -<br>Winter is the Flu Season at any rate and the air tends to somewhat dry -<br>22 Degree centigrade is the norm at this Hospital as well -<br>http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aker\_universitetssykehus -<br>Last time I visited like 3 years ago it was warm and comfy<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-) -<br>This Hospital will be closed in a few years - It is run down and<br>the Replacement Hospital just 3 kilometers north of Oslo has sufficient capacity to serve -<br>The New Replacement Hospital -<br>http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akershus\_universitetssykehus<br>New buildings taken into service 1 October 2008 next to the old buildings taken into service in 1960 -<br>Being a Libertarian I am not overly happy about the welfare state, but when that is said I must admit<br>that I am not worried about medical care here - AHUS has a VERY GOOD reputation among my healthy friends<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)<br>That said Planet Earth is not perfect and people die here too -<br>Have a look at SICKO - And look at the EXTRA materials on the DVD<br>http://sickothemovie.com/dvd/extras.html - This Country Beats France (On the Sicko DVD only<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-) -<br>Blows France right out of its waters<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)<br>And take a Michael Moore look at our prisons<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-) - We have only 3000 inmates - Half of them are foreigners<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)<br>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4L6-0WRfSA</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No - It is almost all of it due to policy - It has been like that for a long time -People tend to live in excellent housing heated to 22 Degree Centigrade -Winter is the Flu Season at any rate and the air tends to somewhat dry -22 Degree centigrade is the norm at this Hospital as well -http : //no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aker \ _universitetssykehus -Last time I visited like 3 years ago it was warm and comfy : - ) -This Hospital will be closed in a few years - It is run down andthe Replacement Hospital just 3 kilometers north of Oslo has sufficient capacity to serve -The New Replacement Hospital -http : //no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akershus \ _universitetssykehusNew buildings taken into service 1 October 2008 next to the old buildings taken into service in 1960 -Being a Libertarian I am not overly happy about the welfare state , but when that is said I must admitthat I am not worried about medical care here - AHUS has a VERY GOOD reputation among my healthy friends : - ) That said Planet Earth is not perfect and people die here too -Have a look at SICKO - And look at the EXTRA materials on the DVDhttp : //sickothemovie.com/dvd/extras.html - This Country Beats France ( On the Sicko DVD only : - ) -Blows France right out of its waters : - ) And take a Michael Moore look at our prisons : - ) - We have only 3000 inmates - Half of them are foreigners : - ) http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = k4L6-0WRfSA</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No - It is almost all of it due to policy - It has been like that for a long time -People tend to live in excellent housing heated to 22 Degree Centigrade -Winter is the Flu Season at any rate and the air tends to somewhat dry -22 Degree centigrade is the norm at this Hospital as well -http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aker\_universitetssykehus -Last time I visited like 3 years ago it was warm and comfy :-) -This Hospital will be closed in a few years - It is run down andthe Replacement Hospital just 3 kilometers north of Oslo has sufficient capacity to serve -The New Replacement Hospital -http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akershus\_universitetssykehusNew buildings taken into service 1 October 2008 next to the old buildings taken into service in 1960 -Being a Libertarian I am not overly happy about the welfare state, but when that is said I must admitthat I am not worried about medical care here - AHUS has a VERY GOOD reputation among my healthy friends :-)That said Planet Earth is not perfect and people die here too -Have a look at SICKO - And look at the EXTRA materials on the DVDhttp://sickothemovie.com/dvd/extras.html - This Country Beats France (On the Sicko DVD only :-) -Blows France right out of its waters :-)And take a Michael Moore look at our prisons :-) - We have only 3000 inmates - Half of them are foreigners :-)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4L6-0WRfSA</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634228</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30636384</id>
	<title>Re:This article is so RIGHT</title>
	<author>shrimppesto</author>
	<datestamp>1262528700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ethics is now included in the medical curriculum in most schools.  Most curricula focus on medical ethics, but professional ethics are also discussed (e.g. relationships with drug companies).  Whether this has an effect on the student is something that remains to be seen.  Is ethical behavior teachable at this stage, or is it a reflection of the way you were raised (or even the way you were born)?  I personally suspect it is the latter.</p><p>A part of the problem is that the pharmaceutical companies are incredibly effective at "teaching" doctors through their aggressive marketing.  They present themselves as an information source, and not marketers.  Their reps are trained to cite the evidence that supports their drug in a scientific-sounding manner.  The result is that a lot of doctors are moving those drugs in the belief that it is the best thing to do for the patient.  Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not, but the drug reps won't tell you about that second part.  It calls to question why we allow drug reps access to physicians' offices, and whether we need to bolster the scope of continuing medical education.</p><p>The American Association of Medical Colleges (AAMC) is urging medical schools to develop more strict policies governing their relationships with pharmaceutical companies, and banning prescribing perks, etc.  This movement is starting to gain serious ground in academic medical centers.  It is hopeful that similar changes will be seen in private practice, although I suspect some legislation will be necessary in the long run.</p><p>On a side note, a lot of doctors trained in an era when you were -supposed- to prescribe antibiotics "to prevent secondary bacterial infections."  It's only in more recent times that the evidence has shown this to be an unnecessary and potentially harmful practice.  So, a lot of doctors are prescribing these antibiotics in good faith.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ethics is now included in the medical curriculum in most schools .
Most curricula focus on medical ethics , but professional ethics are also discussed ( e.g .
relationships with drug companies ) .
Whether this has an effect on the student is something that remains to be seen .
Is ethical behavior teachable at this stage , or is it a reflection of the way you were raised ( or even the way you were born ) ?
I personally suspect it is the latter.A part of the problem is that the pharmaceutical companies are incredibly effective at " teaching " doctors through their aggressive marketing .
They present themselves as an information source , and not marketers .
Their reps are trained to cite the evidence that supports their drug in a scientific-sounding manner .
The result is that a lot of doctors are moving those drugs in the belief that it is the best thing to do for the patient .
Sometimes it is , sometimes it 's not , but the drug reps wo n't tell you about that second part .
It calls to question why we allow drug reps access to physicians ' offices , and whether we need to bolster the scope of continuing medical education.The American Association of Medical Colleges ( AAMC ) is urging medical schools to develop more strict policies governing their relationships with pharmaceutical companies , and banning prescribing perks , etc .
This movement is starting to gain serious ground in academic medical centers .
It is hopeful that similar changes will be seen in private practice , although I suspect some legislation will be necessary in the long run.On a side note , a lot of doctors trained in an era when you were -supposed- to prescribe antibiotics " to prevent secondary bacterial infections .
" It 's only in more recent times that the evidence has shown this to be an unnecessary and potentially harmful practice .
So , a lot of doctors are prescribing these antibiotics in good faith .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ethics is now included in the medical curriculum in most schools.
Most curricula focus on medical ethics, but professional ethics are also discussed (e.g.
relationships with drug companies).
Whether this has an effect on the student is something that remains to be seen.
Is ethical behavior teachable at this stage, or is it a reflection of the way you were raised (or even the way you were born)?
I personally suspect it is the latter.A part of the problem is that the pharmaceutical companies are incredibly effective at "teaching" doctors through their aggressive marketing.
They present themselves as an information source, and not marketers.
Their reps are trained to cite the evidence that supports their drug in a scientific-sounding manner.
The result is that a lot of doctors are moving those drugs in the belief that it is the best thing to do for the patient.
Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not, but the drug reps won't tell you about that second part.
It calls to question why we allow drug reps access to physicians' offices, and whether we need to bolster the scope of continuing medical education.The American Association of Medical Colleges (AAMC) is urging medical schools to develop more strict policies governing their relationships with pharmaceutical companies, and banning prescribing perks, etc.
This movement is starting to gain serious ground in academic medical centers.
It is hopeful that similar changes will be seen in private practice, although I suspect some legislation will be necessary in the long run.On a side note, a lot of doctors trained in an era when you were -supposed- to prescribe antibiotics "to prevent secondary bacterial infections.
"  It's only in more recent times that the evidence has shown this to be an unnecessary and potentially harmful practice.
So, a lot of doctors are prescribing these antibiotics in good faith.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634276</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634184</id>
	<title>Re:The People Problem</title>
	<author>MMC Monster</author>
	<datestamp>1262512980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Agree one hundred percent.</p><p>I think that patient education now is better than it was 10-15 years ago.  Unfortunately, a lot of damage has been done in that time period.</p><p>MRSA is bad.  God help us when vancomycin resistant S. aureus becomes widespread.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Agree one hundred percent.I think that patient education now is better than it was 10-15 years ago .
Unfortunately , a lot of damage has been done in that time period.MRSA is bad .
God help us when vancomycin resistant S. aureus becomes widespread .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agree one hundred percent.I think that patient education now is better than it was 10-15 years ago.
Unfortunately, a lot of damage has been done in that time period.MRSA is bad.
God help us when vancomycin resistant S. aureus becomes widespread.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634050</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30637072</id>
	<title>Did the right thing</title>
	<author>noppy</author>
	<datestamp>1262535480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It does happen</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It does happen</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It does happen</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30649996</id>
	<title>Re:It's not just the antibiotics that are a proble</title>
	<author>SixAndFiftyThree</author>
	<datestamp>1262617500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'll add the other side to your story.  (Full disclosure: a member of my family has worked in mental health, though without prescribing any drugs.)  Both in people I've known personally and in case studies written by a doctor who believed that many of the worst mentally ill people are not "untreatable" despite the psychiatrists' opinions, it has been clear to me that meds sometimes provide a vital breathing space, so the patients can at least make good use of the hardware inside their heads, and thereby get themselves better, given a software expert (that is, a therapist) who can reverse engineer the bad software in their heads and help them uninstall it.</p><p>The problem seems to be that therapists who have enough imagination and perseverance (and, in extreme cases, enough physical courage) to help these patients, and enough respect for them to prescribe minimum rather than maximum amounts of medication, are scarce and expensive.  You think drugs are expensive?  They are, but the cost of a therapy session can pay for a <b>lot</b> of pills.  So there tends to be a bias towards pills.  Easier to whack the hardware with a hammer than investigate the software<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... but running bad software on good hardware still isn't going to work -- and please don't take that personally!  Plus it may take time, and money, to tell whether the problem is in the hardware or the software (or in both).</p><p>I have also heard stories, by a Stanford professor no less, where anti-psychotic meds were prescribed in "wanton" doses in mental institutions.  So although I've never been through what you have, I am sure your stories are as real as mine.  On the lighter side<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... well, it wasn't light for him<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... I once knew someone who suffered from depression, so his doctor had him sent home from work on (quite generous) disability pay; the only problem was that most of the things that made him feel good and could have lifted him out of depression were part of his job.  Argghhh.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll add the other side to your story .
( Full disclosure : a member of my family has worked in mental health , though without prescribing any drugs .
) Both in people I 've known personally and in case studies written by a doctor who believed that many of the worst mentally ill people are not " untreatable " despite the psychiatrists ' opinions , it has been clear to me that meds sometimes provide a vital breathing space , so the patients can at least make good use of the hardware inside their heads , and thereby get themselves better , given a software expert ( that is , a therapist ) who can reverse engineer the bad software in their heads and help them uninstall it.The problem seems to be that therapists who have enough imagination and perseverance ( and , in extreme cases , enough physical courage ) to help these patients , and enough respect for them to prescribe minimum rather than maximum amounts of medication , are scarce and expensive .
You think drugs are expensive ?
They are , but the cost of a therapy session can pay for a lot of pills .
So there tends to be a bias towards pills .
Easier to whack the hardware with a hammer than investigate the software ... but running bad software on good hardware still is n't going to work -- and please do n't take that personally !
Plus it may take time , and money , to tell whether the problem is in the hardware or the software ( or in both ) .I have also heard stories , by a Stanford professor no less , where anti-psychotic meds were prescribed in " wanton " doses in mental institutions .
So although I 've never been through what you have , I am sure your stories are as real as mine .
On the lighter side ... well , it was n't light for him ... I once knew someone who suffered from depression , so his doctor had him sent home from work on ( quite generous ) disability pay ; the only problem was that most of the things that made him feel good and could have lifted him out of depression were part of his job .
Argghhh .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll add the other side to your story.
(Full disclosure: a member of my family has worked in mental health, though without prescribing any drugs.
)  Both in people I've known personally and in case studies written by a doctor who believed that many of the worst mentally ill people are not "untreatable" despite the psychiatrists' opinions, it has been clear to me that meds sometimes provide a vital breathing space, so the patients can at least make good use of the hardware inside their heads, and thereby get themselves better, given a software expert (that is, a therapist) who can reverse engineer the bad software in their heads and help them uninstall it.The problem seems to be that therapists who have enough imagination and perseverance (and, in extreme cases, enough physical courage) to help these patients, and enough respect for them to prescribe minimum rather than maximum amounts of medication, are scarce and expensive.
You think drugs are expensive?
They are, but the cost of a therapy session can pay for a lot of pills.
So there tends to be a bias towards pills.
Easier to whack the hardware with a hammer than investigate the software ... but running bad software on good hardware still isn't going to work -- and please don't take that personally!
Plus it may take time, and money, to tell whether the problem is in the hardware or the software (or in both).I have also heard stories, by a Stanford professor no less, where anti-psychotic meds were prescribed in "wanton" doses in mental institutions.
So although I've never been through what you have, I am sure your stories are as real as mine.
On the lighter side ... well, it wasn't light for him ... I once knew someone who suffered from depression, so his doctor had him sent home from work on (quite generous) disability pay; the only problem was that most of the things that made him feel good and could have lifted him out of depression were part of his job.
Argghhh.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634968</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30635172</id>
	<title>Re:This article is so RIGHT</title>
	<author>eulernet</author>
	<datestamp>1262520000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Anybody who knows anything about biochemistry and/or pharmaceuticals knows that novel drugs that are SAFE and EFFECTIVE are enormously expensive to develop and clinically test.</p></div><p>It's not entirely true:</p><p>1) first, they test their new drugs on cheaper people (India, China and similar countries). The big companies however concentrate searching drugs for western diseases, because it's much more profitable, so it's quite difficult to test the drugs on people needing it.</p><p>2) secondly, when a drug is finally available, everybody is a beta-tester, and the manual's instructions are changed from time to time (there is a revision date for the notice of a medicine).</p><p>3) thirdly, a drug needs advertisement to really become profitable (or to concentrate on a popular disease, like the swine flu or erection problems).<br>There have been a lot of abuse in this part in France.<br>For example, the doctors prescribing the most drugs of a certain company could be invited to a seminar in a sunny country (or rewarded financially).</p><p>Finally, doctors are not saints. They try to earn money too. If they can earn enough money without cheating, I don't think they'll take the risk.<br>But a lot of high-profile experts (and I mean those who pass on TV) are in fact working for the pharmaceutical companies, and a lot of doctors don't earn enough money, even after 9 to 11 years of studies !<br>It's difficult to push for morality when doctors are just overwhelmed by work, with a quite low pay.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Anybody who knows anything about biochemistry and/or pharmaceuticals knows that novel drugs that are SAFE and EFFECTIVE are enormously expensive to develop and clinically test.It 's not entirely true : 1 ) first , they test their new drugs on cheaper people ( India , China and similar countries ) .
The big companies however concentrate searching drugs for western diseases , because it 's much more profitable , so it 's quite difficult to test the drugs on people needing it.2 ) secondly , when a drug is finally available , everybody is a beta-tester , and the manual 's instructions are changed from time to time ( there is a revision date for the notice of a medicine ) .3 ) thirdly , a drug needs advertisement to really become profitable ( or to concentrate on a popular disease , like the swine flu or erection problems ) .There have been a lot of abuse in this part in France.For example , the doctors prescribing the most drugs of a certain company could be invited to a seminar in a sunny country ( or rewarded financially ) .Finally , doctors are not saints .
They try to earn money too .
If they can earn enough money without cheating , I do n't think they 'll take the risk.But a lot of high-profile experts ( and I mean those who pass on TV ) are in fact working for the pharmaceutical companies , and a lot of doctors do n't earn enough money , even after 9 to 11 years of studies ! It 's difficult to push for morality when doctors are just overwhelmed by work , with a quite low pay .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anybody who knows anything about biochemistry and/or pharmaceuticals knows that novel drugs that are SAFE and EFFECTIVE are enormously expensive to develop and clinically test.It's not entirely true:1) first, they test their new drugs on cheaper people (India, China and similar countries).
The big companies however concentrate searching drugs for western diseases, because it's much more profitable, so it's quite difficult to test the drugs on people needing it.2) secondly, when a drug is finally available, everybody is a beta-tester, and the manual's instructions are changed from time to time (there is a revision date for the notice of a medicine).3) thirdly, a drug needs advertisement to really become profitable (or to concentrate on a popular disease, like the swine flu or erection problems).There have been a lot of abuse in this part in France.For example, the doctors prescribing the most drugs of a certain company could be invited to a seminar in a sunny country (or rewarded financially).Finally, doctors are not saints.
They try to earn money too.
If they can earn enough money without cheating, I don't think they'll take the risk.But a lot of high-profile experts (and I mean those who pass on TV) are in fact working for the pharmaceutical companies, and a lot of doctors don't earn enough money, even after 9 to 11 years of studies !It's difficult to push for morality when doctors are just overwhelmed by work, with a quite low pay.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634130</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30635400</id>
	<title>Correction to many erroneous posts</title>
	<author>cinnamon colbert</author>
	<datestamp>1262521380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I happen to be a bit of an expert in this field - no shit</p><p>below is from memory; if people are really interested, i can pull out some references from the scientific literature that back all of this up<br>MRSA stands for "methicillin resistant Staphylococcus aureus", and it was 1st detected in the UK in the (i think ) '60s</p><p>lets backup a bit</p><p>the human body is covered, inside and out, with bacteria, which can be harmful, neutral or beneficial - for instance, vitamin B12, a requirement for life, is made by bacteria.<br>All humans carry Staphylococcus epidermidis; ~ 20\% also carry S aureus, which prefers to live in moist places like the inside of the nose (anterior nares) throat, axilla, groin and rectum. Epidermidis is pretty harmless, except for people with implanted devices like catheters; since epi likes "surfaces" it tends to colonize the surface of catheters.<br>Most people have either epi or aureus, but not both,and these two bugs are a small part of the total skin microflora.</p><p>In general, having S aureus on your skin or in your nose does not seem to be harmful; however, if you have a cut, and aureus gains entry to the bloodstream, this is a very serious matter. S aureus , whoose genome is sequenced, carrys a host of "virulence factors" that make it a particularly dangerous infection in the blood; in th era before antibiotics, the mortality rate for aureus septicemia was over 50\%, and perhaps 80\% in some hospitals (!).</p><p>That is, ify ou were a physcian in the most advanced medical center in the world in the 1940s, and a healthy patient got an aureus infection in the blood - perhaps due to infection of a surgical site , where the skin is open- there was a 50\% chance that pateint would die. Aureus also tends to grow on the heartvalves, which is the disease known as endocarditis; i should think it obvious that having a film of bacteria on your heart valves is not a good idea.</p><p>It is easy to see how penicillin, which was very effective, was viewed as a miracle drug. However, within a few years, aureus became resistant to penicillin, and hospitals were starting to see epidemics of untreatable  penicillin resistant aureus.</p><p>Luckily, the pharmaceutical compnaies and thier scientists had variations of penicillin - the first was methicillin; since then, dozens of beta lactam antibiotics, the mot advanced of which are the carbapenems and fifth generation cephalosporins (wikipedia is good here) have ben developed.<br>Staph took 10-20 years to become resistant to methicillin; however, when staph do become resistant, they do so by aquisition of a virus like element (SCCmec) which often carries resistance to a whole host of other antibiotics, so that MRSA is actually a bug that is resistant to many drugs. (technically, SCCmec encodes a replacement for PBP2a, PBP2a', which has a lactam resistant transpeptidase function; but no transglycosylase). the origin of SCCmec is unkown.</p><p>The drugs of choice for MRSA are vancomycin, daptomycin and colistin; ceftobiprole, approved in canada and switzerland , is supposed to be very effective.<br>Vancomycin is very $ and nephrotoxic; the others are worse.</p><p>If one looks at different countrys around the world, one sees that some countrys - in particular the netherlands and the scandanavian countrys - have very low rates of MRSA, that is most of the aureus is methicillin sensitive.</p><p>However, if you look in detail - and believe me, a lot of scientists have looked very hard - it is hard to find one particular reason why these countrys have low rates of MRSA; rather, it seems to be due to a "bundle" of practices.  In general, these countrys have good antibiotic stewardship - drugs are not prescribed unless you need them; they spnd a lot on controlling outbreaks, and they are very carefull to test people from outside the country, who might hve MRSA, when they enter the hospital.</p><p>In the US, the statistics on how many people get MRSA and how many die have been compiled by several authors; the most well known is monica klevens of the CDC.<br>Now it</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I happen to be a bit of an expert in this field - no shitbelow is from memory ; if people are really interested , i can pull out some references from the scientific literature that back all of this upMRSA stands for " methicillin resistant Staphylococcus aureus " , and it was 1st detected in the UK in the ( i think ) '60slets backup a bitthe human body is covered , inside and out , with bacteria , which can be harmful , neutral or beneficial - for instance , vitamin B12 , a requirement for life , is made by bacteria.All humans carry Staphylococcus epidermidis ; ~ 20 \ % also carry S aureus , which prefers to live in moist places like the inside of the nose ( anterior nares ) throat , axilla , groin and rectum .
Epidermidis is pretty harmless , except for people with implanted devices like catheters ; since epi likes " surfaces " it tends to colonize the surface of catheters.Most people have either epi or aureus , but not both,and these two bugs are a small part of the total skin microflora.In general , having S aureus on your skin or in your nose does not seem to be harmful ; however , if you have a cut , and aureus gains entry to the bloodstream , this is a very serious matter .
S aureus , whoose genome is sequenced , carrys a host of " virulence factors " that make it a particularly dangerous infection in the blood ; in th era before antibiotics , the mortality rate for aureus septicemia was over 50 \ % , and perhaps 80 \ % in some hospitals ( !
) .That is , ify ou were a physcian in the most advanced medical center in the world in the 1940s , and a healthy patient got an aureus infection in the blood - perhaps due to infection of a surgical site , where the skin is open- there was a 50 \ % chance that pateint would die .
Aureus also tends to grow on the heartvalves , which is the disease known as endocarditis ; i should think it obvious that having a film of bacteria on your heart valves is not a good idea.It is easy to see how penicillin , which was very effective , was viewed as a miracle drug .
However , within a few years , aureus became resistant to penicillin , and hospitals were starting to see epidemics of untreatable penicillin resistant aureus.Luckily , the pharmaceutical compnaies and thier scientists had variations of penicillin - the first was methicillin ; since then , dozens of beta lactam antibiotics , the mot advanced of which are the carbapenems and fifth generation cephalosporins ( wikipedia is good here ) have ben developed.Staph took 10-20 years to become resistant to methicillin ; however , when staph do become resistant , they do so by aquisition of a virus like element ( SCCmec ) which often carries resistance to a whole host of other antibiotics , so that MRSA is actually a bug that is resistant to many drugs .
( technically , SCCmec encodes a replacement for PBP2a , PBP2a ' , which has a lactam resistant transpeptidase function ; but no transglycosylase ) .
the origin of SCCmec is unkown.The drugs of choice for MRSA are vancomycin , daptomycin and colistin ; ceftobiprole , approved in canada and switzerland , is supposed to be very effective.Vancomycin is very $ and nephrotoxic ; the others are worse.If one looks at different countrys around the world , one sees that some countrys - in particular the netherlands and the scandanavian countrys - have very low rates of MRSA , that is most of the aureus is methicillin sensitive.However , if you look in detail - and believe me , a lot of scientists have looked very hard - it is hard to find one particular reason why these countrys have low rates of MRSA ; rather , it seems to be due to a " bundle " of practices .
In general , these countrys have good antibiotic stewardship - drugs are not prescribed unless you need them ; they spnd a lot on controlling outbreaks , and they are very carefull to test people from outside the country , who might hve MRSA , when they enter the hospital.In the US , the statistics on how many people get MRSA and how many die have been compiled by several authors ; the most well known is monica klevens of the CDC.Now it</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I happen to be a bit of an expert in this field - no shitbelow is from memory; if people are really interested, i can pull out some references from the scientific literature that back all of this upMRSA stands for "methicillin resistant Staphylococcus aureus", and it was 1st detected in the UK in the (i think ) '60slets backup a bitthe human body is covered, inside and out, with bacteria, which can be harmful, neutral or beneficial - for instance, vitamin B12, a requirement for life, is made by bacteria.All humans carry Staphylococcus epidermidis; ~ 20\% also carry S aureus, which prefers to live in moist places like the inside of the nose (anterior nares) throat, axilla, groin and rectum.
Epidermidis is pretty harmless, except for people with implanted devices like catheters; since epi likes "surfaces" it tends to colonize the surface of catheters.Most people have either epi or aureus, but not both,and these two bugs are a small part of the total skin microflora.In general, having S aureus on your skin or in your nose does not seem to be harmful; however, if you have a cut, and aureus gains entry to the bloodstream, this is a very serious matter.
S aureus , whoose genome is sequenced, carrys a host of "virulence factors" that make it a particularly dangerous infection in the blood; in th era before antibiotics, the mortality rate for aureus septicemia was over 50\%, and perhaps 80\% in some hospitals (!
).That is, ify ou were a physcian in the most advanced medical center in the world in the 1940s, and a healthy patient got an aureus infection in the blood - perhaps due to infection of a surgical site , where the skin is open- there was a 50\% chance that pateint would die.
Aureus also tends to grow on the heartvalves, which is the disease known as endocarditis; i should think it obvious that having a film of bacteria on your heart valves is not a good idea.It is easy to see how penicillin, which was very effective, was viewed as a miracle drug.
However, within a few years, aureus became resistant to penicillin, and hospitals were starting to see epidemics of untreatable  penicillin resistant aureus.Luckily, the pharmaceutical compnaies and thier scientists had variations of penicillin - the first was methicillin; since then, dozens of beta lactam antibiotics, the mot advanced of which are the carbapenems and fifth generation cephalosporins (wikipedia is good here) have ben developed.Staph took 10-20 years to become resistant to methicillin; however, when staph do become resistant, they do so by aquisition of a virus like element (SCCmec) which often carries resistance to a whole host of other antibiotics, so that MRSA is actually a bug that is resistant to many drugs.
(technically, SCCmec encodes a replacement for PBP2a, PBP2a', which has a lactam resistant transpeptidase function; but no transglycosylase).
the origin of SCCmec is unkown.The drugs of choice for MRSA are vancomycin, daptomycin and colistin; ceftobiprole, approved in canada and switzerland , is supposed to be very effective.Vancomycin is very $ and nephrotoxic; the others are worse.If one looks at different countrys around the world, one sees that some countrys - in particular the netherlands and the scandanavian countrys - have very low rates of MRSA, that is most of the aureus is methicillin sensitive.However, if you look in detail - and believe me, a lot of scientists have looked very hard - it is hard to find one particular reason why these countrys have low rates of MRSA; rather, it seems to be due to a "bundle" of practices.
In general, these countrys have good antibiotic stewardship - drugs are not prescribed unless you need them; they spnd a lot on controlling outbreaks, and they are very carefull to test people from outside the country, who might hve MRSA, when they enter the hospital.In the US, the statistics on how many people get MRSA and how many die have been compiled by several authors; the most well known is monica klevens of the CDC.Now it</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634194</id>
	<title>Re:This article is so RIGHT</title>
	<author>visualight</author>
	<datestamp>1262513100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think there was a time in the U.S. when hospitals, lawyers, and drug companies couldn't ( or didn't ) advertise.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think there was a time in the U.S. when hospitals , lawyers , and drug companies could n't ( or did n't ) advertise .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think there was a time in the U.S. when hospitals, lawyers, and drug companies couldn't ( or didn't ) advertise.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634130</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30637794</id>
	<title>anyone else sick of the eurpoean holier than thou?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262543820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>if right or wrong, they may be nasty bacteria free, but they<br>still stink.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>if right or wrong , they may be nasty bacteria free , but theystill stink .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if right or wrong, they may be nasty bacteria free, but theystill stink.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30636322</id>
	<title>Re:What? Of course it does.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262527980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>MRSA is a contagious disease. If you don't get a Staph infection it doesn't need to be treated, so the goal is to avoid transmission. Although MRSA is less prevalent in Norway than in many other countries <a href="http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/eccmid15/abstract.asp?id=37231" title="blackwellpublishing.com" rel="nofollow">it's alive and well there</a> [blackwellpublishing.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>MRSA is a contagious disease .
If you do n't get a Staph infection it does n't need to be treated , so the goal is to avoid transmission .
Although MRSA is less prevalent in Norway than in many other countries it 's alive and well there [ blackwellpublishing.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>MRSA is a contagious disease.
If you don't get a Staph infection it doesn't need to be treated, so the goal is to avoid transmission.
Although MRSA is less prevalent in Norway than in many other countries it's alive and well there [blackwellpublishing.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634544</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634214</id>
	<title>Re:How did they do this?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262513160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm not sure about the antibiotics thing. I found it very easy to get antibiotics in the UK. Mind you I had a chest infection twice so it's not like I was asking for them for a scrape on my knee or something silly.
<br> <br>
The UK's hospitals suffer from the class system. Some hospitals are real shit tips and some are very nice. It's not necessarily the bad areas that have bad hospitals. As I recall Addenbrookes hospital in Cambridge was one of the dirtiest a few years ago. Despite being a fairly rich area I think it's the fact it had a lot of people in general going through it, but the area does have a fair amount of poor people and homeless and the last time I went in there (as a visitor) the support staff was shit.
<br> <br>
I suspect there was too much corner cutting on support staff to keep budgets down which you can't really do in a busy hospital, imo.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not sure about the antibiotics thing .
I found it very easy to get antibiotics in the UK .
Mind you I had a chest infection twice so it 's not like I was asking for them for a scrape on my knee or something silly .
The UK 's hospitals suffer from the class system .
Some hospitals are real shit tips and some are very nice .
It 's not necessarily the bad areas that have bad hospitals .
As I recall Addenbrookes hospital in Cambridge was one of the dirtiest a few years ago .
Despite being a fairly rich area I think it 's the fact it had a lot of people in general going through it , but the area does have a fair amount of poor people and homeless and the last time I went in there ( as a visitor ) the support staff was shit .
I suspect there was too much corner cutting on support staff to keep budgets down which you ca n't really do in a busy hospital , imo .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not sure about the antibiotics thing.
I found it very easy to get antibiotics in the UK.
Mind you I had a chest infection twice so it's not like I was asking for them for a scrape on my knee or something silly.
The UK's hospitals suffer from the class system.
Some hospitals are real shit tips and some are very nice.
It's not necessarily the bad areas that have bad hospitals.
As I recall Addenbrookes hospital in Cambridge was one of the dirtiest a few years ago.
Despite being a fairly rich area I think it's the fact it had a lot of people in general going through it, but the area does have a fair amount of poor people and homeless and the last time I went in there (as a visitor) the support staff was shit.
I suspect there was too much corner cutting on support staff to keep budgets down which you can't really do in a busy hospital, imo.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634112</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634952</id>
	<title>Re:The People Problem</title>
	<author>hedwards</author>
	<datestamp>1262518560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Antibiotics are prescription only here, except for things like neosporin and a few others that aren't really that potent. But the implication that ads have something to do with it is grossly misleading. Seeing and ad and requesting that the doctor fill the prescription does not guarantee that the doctor will give it to you. Often times they'll either say no outright or suggest an alternate method of treatment. In all while it does probably up treatment rates, it doesn't have any measurable impact on the number of doses being used.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Antibiotics are prescription only here , except for things like neosporin and a few others that are n't really that potent .
But the implication that ads have something to do with it is grossly misleading .
Seeing and ad and requesting that the doctor fill the prescription does not guarantee that the doctor will give it to you .
Often times they 'll either say no outright or suggest an alternate method of treatment .
In all while it does probably up treatment rates , it does n't have any measurable impact on the number of doses being used .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Antibiotics are prescription only here, except for things like neosporin and a few others that aren't really that potent.
But the implication that ads have something to do with it is grossly misleading.
Seeing and ad and requesting that the doctor fill the prescription does not guarantee that the doctor will give it to you.
Often times they'll either say no outright or suggest an alternate method of treatment.
In all while it does probably up treatment rates, it doesn't have any measurable impact on the number of doses being used.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634316</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30641016</id>
	<title>Re:New theory</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262622060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have trouble with this. Do bateria not go into a state of stasis in bad climate... i believe they turn into spores after expelling their cells water content, do they not?</p><p>And what of viruses?</p><p>So what does the cold climate change? the spore warm up as they contact your warm body and the viruses?</p><p>Really... Protien's to not denature in cold... only in extreme heat, so lon gas the biology of the cell can deal with expellign the water fast enough and in a controlled enough way.</p><p>The ONLY way cold weather helps also hinders - people tend to go out less often and hang out in groups in enclosed spaces in cold weather... hence why we refer to getting a "cold" as opposed to getting a "warm".</p><p>IANA microbiologist but I read a lot on the subject.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have trouble with this .
Do bateria not go into a state of stasis in bad climate... i believe they turn into spores after expelling their cells water content , do they not ? And what of viruses ? So what does the cold climate change ?
the spore warm up as they contact your warm body and the viruses ? Really... Protien 's to not denature in cold... only in extreme heat , so lon gas the biology of the cell can deal with expellign the water fast enough and in a controlled enough way.The ONLY way cold weather helps also hinders - people tend to go out less often and hang out in groups in enclosed spaces in cold weather... hence why we refer to getting a " cold " as opposed to getting a " warm " .IANA microbiologist but I read a lot on the subject .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have trouble with this.
Do bateria not go into a state of stasis in bad climate... i believe they turn into spores after expelling their cells water content, do they not?And what of viruses?So what does the cold climate change?
the spore warm up as they contact your warm body and the viruses?Really... Protien's to not denature in cold... only in extreme heat, so lon gas the biology of the cell can deal with expellign the water fast enough and in a controlled enough way.The ONLY way cold weather helps also hinders - people tend to go out less often and hang out in groups in enclosed spaces in cold weather... hence why we refer to getting a "cold" as opposed to getting a "warm".IANA microbiologist but I read a lot on the subject.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634908</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634976</id>
	<title>Re:The People Problem</title>
	<author>JaWiB</author>
	<datestamp>1262518740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The nsf conducted a survey that found that 51\% of people in the U.S. thought antibiotics kill viruses as well as bacteria: <a href="http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind02/c7/c7s1.htm" title="nsf.gov" rel="nofollow">http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind02/c7/c7s1.htm</a> [nsf.gov]</htmltext>
<tokenext>The nsf conducted a survey that found that 51 \ % of people in the U.S. thought antibiotics kill viruses as well as bacteria : http : //www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind02/c7/c7s1.htm [ nsf.gov ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The nsf conducted a survey that found that 51\% of people in the U.S. thought antibiotics kill viruses as well as bacteria: http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind02/c7/c7s1.htm [nsf.gov]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634050</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30635434</id>
	<title>Re:Stop with the drugs already</title>
	<author>AaronW</author>
	<datestamp>1262521620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Vaccines are very different than antibiotics. Basically a vaccine is a killed or weak version of a virus to train your immune system to recognize it so when the real thing tries to infect you your immune system has already created antibodies and is ready to fight it off. Otherwise it takes a while for your immune system several days to find an effective antibody, during which time your body has limited defense against the virus.</p><p>As for the "scare mongering" for flues like the H1N1, a friend of several of my friends recently died from complications to H1N1. He wasn't that old either. It's scare mongering until it becomes personal.</p><p>I don't know about you, but I would much rather endure the slight sting of getting a vaccine once or twice a year rather than to suffer the effects from the flu as well as missing work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Vaccines are very different than antibiotics .
Basically a vaccine is a killed or weak version of a virus to train your immune system to recognize it so when the real thing tries to infect you your immune system has already created antibodies and is ready to fight it off .
Otherwise it takes a while for your immune system several days to find an effective antibody , during which time your body has limited defense against the virus.As for the " scare mongering " for flues like the H1N1 , a friend of several of my friends recently died from complications to H1N1 .
He was n't that old either .
It 's scare mongering until it becomes personal.I do n't know about you , but I would much rather endure the slight sting of getting a vaccine once or twice a year rather than to suffer the effects from the flu as well as missing work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Vaccines are very different than antibiotics.
Basically a vaccine is a killed or weak version of a virus to train your immune system to recognize it so when the real thing tries to infect you your immune system has already created antibodies and is ready to fight it off.
Otherwise it takes a while for your immune system several days to find an effective antibody, during which time your body has limited defense against the virus.As for the "scare mongering" for flues like the H1N1, a friend of several of my friends recently died from complications to H1N1.
He wasn't that old either.
It's scare mongering until it becomes personal.I don't know about you, but I would much rather endure the slight sting of getting a vaccine once or twice a year rather than to suffer the effects from the flu as well as missing work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30636500</id>
	<title>Other possible causes..</title>
	<author>cataclyst</author>
	<datestamp>1262529780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Am I really the first one to point out that (at least here in the US) it is a common practice to feed antibiotics to cattle in order to fatten them up more quickly?  Gee, ya think that some of those farmers might be constantly coming in contact with small amounts of those antibiotics and develop MRSA or worse!?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Am I really the first one to point out that ( at least here in the US ) it is a common practice to feed antibiotics to cattle in order to fatten them up more quickly ?
Gee , ya think that some of those farmers might be constantly coming in contact with small amounts of those antibiotics and develop MRSA or worse !
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Am I really the first one to point out that (at least here in the US) it is a common practice to feed antibiotics to cattle in order to fatten them up more quickly?
Gee, ya think that some of those farmers might be constantly coming in contact with small amounts of those antibiotics and develop MRSA or worse!
?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30637996</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm...</title>
	<author>jfreaksho</author>
	<datestamp>1262547180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The main reason for using antibiotics on cattle is because they are fed corn, which changes the pH of their stomachs enough that different types of bacteria can survive in them.  If the cattle were simply fed grass for two weeks before butchering, their stomach pH would return to normal.  There would be essentially no antibiotics left in their system, no bad bacteria, and the cows would be much healthier overall when they were processed for human consumption.</p><p>Completely grass-fed cattle have significantly less need for antibiotics throughout their entire lives, as their systems are designed/have evolved to handle that, and not grain.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The main reason for using antibiotics on cattle is because they are fed corn , which changes the pH of their stomachs enough that different types of bacteria can survive in them .
If the cattle were simply fed grass for two weeks before butchering , their stomach pH would return to normal .
There would be essentially no antibiotics left in their system , no bad bacteria , and the cows would be much healthier overall when they were processed for human consumption.Completely grass-fed cattle have significantly less need for antibiotics throughout their entire lives , as their systems are designed/have evolved to handle that , and not grain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The main reason for using antibiotics on cattle is because they are fed corn, which changes the pH of their stomachs enough that different types of bacteria can survive in them.
If the cattle were simply fed grass for two weeks before butchering, their stomach pH would return to normal.
There would be essentially no antibiotics left in their system, no bad bacteria, and the cows would be much healthier overall when they were processed for human consumption.Completely grass-fed cattle have significantly less need for antibiotics throughout their entire lives, as their systems are designed/have evolved to handle that, and not grain.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634732</id>
	<title>Re:This article is so RIGHT</title>
	<author>puck01</author>
	<datestamp>1262517120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>so because you have had crappy jobs and crappy doctor visits, an antibiotic will fix your cold?     I'm not following your logic here.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>so because you have had crappy jobs and crappy doctor visits , an antibiotic will fix your cold ?
I 'm not following your logic here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>so because you have had crappy jobs and crappy doctor visits, an antibiotic will fix your cold?
I'm not following your logic here.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634438</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30635610</id>
	<title>just a small nit...</title>
	<author>slew</author>
	<datestamp>1262522880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>bugs don't become superbugs if they are a) dead, or b) never exposed to agents which cause them to become superbugs.</p></div></blockquote><p>Although I agree with most of what you said, these agents don't actually cause a singular bug to somehow become a super bug.  What they do is alter the environment enabling a favorable evolution of bugs into bugs that can survive in that new environment.</p><p>The problem is when we aren't clear about what we are saying (as people who are supposed to be "informed"), patients don't generally respond the correct way (e.g., they can stop taking vaccines, because they're just like antibiotics, and all that stuff causes bugs to mutate, right?).</p><p>Antibiotics, like all tools, have a purpose (e.g., can't use soap and hand sanitizers to clean out your lungs or other internal organs of a bacterial infections), and I agree they are overused, but sometimes the tradeoff is worth it.</p><p>Although part of the problem is the advertisement and promotion deluge (one-size-fits-all, buy my most profitable product, all your peers are doing it, why don't you), education of patients/consumers is a real problem.  There are really no incentives for patients to get eduated in most healthcare systems and unforutnatly we all pay for it (this is not unlike people not having any incentives to get educated about the mortgage market).</p><p>When people are more educated, they tend to make better decisions, but sadly, there needs to be a motivation to get educated.  Right now, either the health-care insurance company and/or the government is determining all the "options" and paying the bill.<br>Because we can't trust patients to be educated, we defer to the medical establishment.  From the medical estabishment's point of view dispensing anti-biotics is cheaper than talking to a doctor for a few moments (since the doctor is making $100+/hour) or have a doctor supervise the advancment of an unknown infection and avoid the anti-biotic even though it may be more expensive in the long run to society (it is of course cheaper for the patient to take the anti-biotics as well).</p><p>Not really sure how to change this, in a culture where people demand things right-now, whatever is best for me, damn the consequences to society, who cares about deferred gratification.  Perhaps what we are really doing is taking a page from the bacteria and are evolving people that are resistant to so-called super-bugs.  We've been able to avoid some forms of evolution by our use of technology, but perhaps there are limits to technology that we will hit and then we'll have to adapt...</p><p>Although capitalism might be to blame for this, I don't think the fault is with the companies, it's with the customers.  They are getting what they want, it's just that the customers are short sighted and what they wan't isn't that great for society as a whole.</p><p>Maybe we can conclude that we should cap-and-trade antibiotics?  or we should declare some non-resistant bacteria as endangered species?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>bugs do n't become superbugs if they are a ) dead , or b ) never exposed to agents which cause them to become superbugs.Although I agree with most of what you said , these agents do n't actually cause a singular bug to somehow become a super bug .
What they do is alter the environment enabling a favorable evolution of bugs into bugs that can survive in that new environment.The problem is when we are n't clear about what we are saying ( as people who are supposed to be " informed " ) , patients do n't generally respond the correct way ( e.g. , they can stop taking vaccines , because they 're just like antibiotics , and all that stuff causes bugs to mutate , right ?
) .Antibiotics , like all tools , have a purpose ( e.g. , ca n't use soap and hand sanitizers to clean out your lungs or other internal organs of a bacterial infections ) , and I agree they are overused , but sometimes the tradeoff is worth it.Although part of the problem is the advertisement and promotion deluge ( one-size-fits-all , buy my most profitable product , all your peers are doing it , why do n't you ) , education of patients/consumers is a real problem .
There are really no incentives for patients to get eduated in most healthcare systems and unforutnatly we all pay for it ( this is not unlike people not having any incentives to get educated about the mortgage market ) .When people are more educated , they tend to make better decisions , but sadly , there needs to be a motivation to get educated .
Right now , either the health-care insurance company and/or the government is determining all the " options " and paying the bill.Because we ca n't trust patients to be educated , we defer to the medical establishment .
From the medical estabishment 's point of view dispensing anti-biotics is cheaper than talking to a doctor for a few moments ( since the doctor is making $ 100 + /hour ) or have a doctor supervise the advancment of an unknown infection and avoid the anti-biotic even though it may be more expensive in the long run to society ( it is of course cheaper for the patient to take the anti-biotics as well ) .Not really sure how to change this , in a culture where people demand things right-now , whatever is best for me , damn the consequences to society , who cares about deferred gratification .
Perhaps what we are really doing is taking a page from the bacteria and are evolving people that are resistant to so-called super-bugs .
We 've been able to avoid some forms of evolution by our use of technology , but perhaps there are limits to technology that we will hit and then we 'll have to adapt...Although capitalism might be to blame for this , I do n't think the fault is with the companies , it 's with the customers .
They are getting what they want , it 's just that the customers are short sighted and what they wa n't is n't that great for society as a whole.Maybe we can conclude that we should cap-and-trade antibiotics ?
or we should declare some non-resistant bacteria as endangered species ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>bugs don't become superbugs if they are a) dead, or b) never exposed to agents which cause them to become superbugs.Although I agree with most of what you said, these agents don't actually cause a singular bug to somehow become a super bug.
What they do is alter the environment enabling a favorable evolution of bugs into bugs that can survive in that new environment.The problem is when we aren't clear about what we are saying (as people who are supposed to be "informed"), patients don't generally respond the correct way (e.g., they can stop taking vaccines, because they're just like antibiotics, and all that stuff causes bugs to mutate, right?
).Antibiotics, like all tools, have a purpose (e.g., can't use soap and hand sanitizers to clean out your lungs or other internal organs of a bacterial infections), and I agree they are overused, but sometimes the tradeoff is worth it.Although part of the problem is the advertisement and promotion deluge (one-size-fits-all, buy my most profitable product, all your peers are doing it, why don't you), education of patients/consumers is a real problem.
There are really no incentives for patients to get eduated in most healthcare systems and unforutnatly we all pay for it (this is not unlike people not having any incentives to get educated about the mortgage market).When people are more educated, they tend to make better decisions, but sadly, there needs to be a motivation to get educated.
Right now, either the health-care insurance company and/or the government is determining all the "options" and paying the bill.Because we can't trust patients to be educated, we defer to the medical establishment.
From the medical estabishment's point of view dispensing anti-biotics is cheaper than talking to a doctor for a few moments (since the doctor is making $100+/hour) or have a doctor supervise the advancment of an unknown infection and avoid the anti-biotic even though it may be more expensive in the long run to society (it is of course cheaper for the patient to take the anti-biotics as well).Not really sure how to change this, in a culture where people demand things right-now, whatever is best for me, damn the consequences to society, who cares about deferred gratification.
Perhaps what we are really doing is taking a page from the bacteria and are evolving people that are resistant to so-called super-bugs.
We've been able to avoid some forms of evolution by our use of technology, but perhaps there are limits to technology that we will hit and then we'll have to adapt...Although capitalism might be to blame for this, I don't think the fault is with the companies, it's with the customers.
They are getting what they want, it's just that the customers are short sighted and what they wan't isn't that great for society as a whole.Maybe we can conclude that we should cap-and-trade antibiotics?
or we should declare some non-resistant bacteria as endangered species?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634068</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634358</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262514180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It would be very interesting to know what the Norwegian agricultural sector is up to in this respect, and how much of an effect that has.</p></div><p>Some statistics from <a href="http://www.xmag.no/id/130.0" title="www.xmag.no" rel="nofollow">http://www.xmag.no/id/130.0</a> [www.xmag.no] (dated December 2007):</p><p>- To produce/breed/farm 600.000 tonnes of salmon, Norway uses approximately 1 tonne of antibiotics<br>- To produce a similar amount of salmon, Chile uses approximately 1.200 tonnes of antibiotics</p><p>(The article is really about the social responsibility of Norwegian salmon farmers operating in Chile, and the antibiotics statistics are there to demonstrate that these farmers operate differently and under different rules in Chile than in Norway.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It would be very interesting to know what the Norwegian agricultural sector is up to in this respect , and how much of an effect that has.Some statistics from http : //www.xmag.no/id/130.0 [ www.xmag.no ] ( dated December 2007 ) : - To produce/breed/farm 600.000 tonnes of salmon , Norway uses approximately 1 tonne of antibiotics- To produce a similar amount of salmon , Chile uses approximately 1.200 tonnes of antibiotics ( The article is really about the social responsibility of Norwegian salmon farmers operating in Chile , and the antibiotics statistics are there to demonstrate that these farmers operate differently and under different rules in Chile than in Norway .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It would be very interesting to know what the Norwegian agricultural sector is up to in this respect, and how much of an effect that has.Some statistics from http://www.xmag.no/id/130.0 [www.xmag.no] (dated December 2007):- To produce/breed/farm 600.000 tonnes of salmon, Norway uses approximately 1 tonne of antibiotics- To produce a similar amount of salmon, Chile uses approximately 1.200 tonnes of antibiotics(The article is really about the social responsibility of Norwegian salmon farmers operating in Chile, and the antibiotics statistics are there to demonstrate that these farmers operate differently and under different rules in Chile than in Norway.
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634438</id>
	<title>Re:This article is so RIGHT</title>
	<author>Darkness404</author>
	<datestamp>1262515080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> but because they are heckled by patients who want a prescription to justify their trip to the doctor's office</p> </div><p>

Well of course they are. When was the last time you actually had an enjoyable doctors visit? The service is terrible, the people either dumb it down to first-grade language (you are sick and are coughing) or speak in a language that no one who has had less than 2 years of pre-med can understand, you spend over half the time going over basic things like height, weight, etc. spend less than 3 minutes with a real doctor who diagnoses you in 10 seconds, and then you are stuck with a bill, which, even with insurance, the copay can be $30 or more. So of course people want results, if I have to leave work early, get told I can't work (yeah, like your employer is going to believe that...), I'd better be getting at least something to make you feel better.</p><p><div class="quote"><p> In short, people are idiots and everyone should really be following the example the Norwegians have set here.</p> </div><p>

Which will lead to more people getting sick. Look, have you ever had to tell your employer you are sick? Even when you are really sick it takes a lot of convincing, most of the time they will still want you in for half a day or so. And its not like in this job market people can easily quit and find a different job.....</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>but because they are heckled by patients who want a prescription to justify their trip to the doctor 's office Well of course they are .
When was the last time you actually had an enjoyable doctors visit ?
The service is terrible , the people either dumb it down to first-grade language ( you are sick and are coughing ) or speak in a language that no one who has had less than 2 years of pre-med can understand , you spend over half the time going over basic things like height , weight , etc .
spend less than 3 minutes with a real doctor who diagnoses you in 10 seconds , and then you are stuck with a bill , which , even with insurance , the copay can be $ 30 or more .
So of course people want results , if I have to leave work early , get told I ca n't work ( yeah , like your employer is going to believe that... ) , I 'd better be getting at least something to make you feel better .
In short , people are idiots and everyone should really be following the example the Norwegians have set here .
Which will lead to more people getting sick .
Look , have you ever had to tell your employer you are sick ?
Even when you are really sick it takes a lot of convincing , most of the time they will still want you in for half a day or so .
And its not like in this job market people can easily quit and find a different job.... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> but because they are heckled by patients who want a prescription to justify their trip to the doctor's office 

Well of course they are.
When was the last time you actually had an enjoyable doctors visit?
The service is terrible, the people either dumb it down to first-grade language (you are sick and are coughing) or speak in a language that no one who has had less than 2 years of pre-med can understand, you spend over half the time going over basic things like height, weight, etc.
spend less than 3 minutes with a real doctor who diagnoses you in 10 seconds, and then you are stuck with a bill, which, even with insurance, the copay can be $30 or more.
So of course people want results, if I have to leave work early, get told I can't work (yeah, like your employer is going to believe that...), I'd better be getting at least something to make you feel better.
In short, people are idiots and everyone should really be following the example the Norwegians have set here.
Which will lead to more people getting sick.
Look, have you ever had to tell your employer you are sick?
Even when you are really sick it takes a lot of convincing, most of the time they will still want you in for half a day or so.
And its not like in this job market people can easily quit and find a different job.....
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634130</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30637766</id>
	<title>Re:" from the they-fired-adrian-monk dept. "</title>
	<author>Midnight Thunder</author>
	<datestamp>1262543280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Bleach and alcohol hand sanitizer wipes are much more powerful tools than penicillin and vancomycin. The idea is simple: bugs don't become superbugs if they are a) dead, or b) never exposed to agents which cause them to become superbugs</i></p><p>Studies have shown that washing your hands doesn't eliminate bacteria, instead it simply reduces the diversity if the bacteria. Using bleach and other hand sanitizers eliminate certain "good bacteria" which are necessary for keeping the skin hydrated. The elimination of these bacteria increase screen dryness and thus the susceptibility to certain types of infections.</p><p>Unless you are in a hospital, then you should limit yourself to regular soap or hand rinsing. I am not suggesting becoming a hippie with regards to hygiene, I simply suggesting that you need to do what make the most sense for the body. Everything is a question of balance.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bleach and alcohol hand sanitizer wipes are much more powerful tools than penicillin and vancomycin .
The idea is simple : bugs do n't become superbugs if they are a ) dead , or b ) never exposed to agents which cause them to become superbugsStudies have shown that washing your hands does n't eliminate bacteria , instead it simply reduces the diversity if the bacteria .
Using bleach and other hand sanitizers eliminate certain " good bacteria " which are necessary for keeping the skin hydrated .
The elimination of these bacteria increase screen dryness and thus the susceptibility to certain types of infections.Unless you are in a hospital , then you should limit yourself to regular soap or hand rinsing .
I am not suggesting becoming a hippie with regards to hygiene , I simply suggesting that you need to do what make the most sense for the body .
Everything is a question of balance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bleach and alcohol hand sanitizer wipes are much more powerful tools than penicillin and vancomycin.
The idea is simple: bugs don't become superbugs if they are a) dead, or b) never exposed to agents which cause them to become superbugsStudies have shown that washing your hands doesn't eliminate bacteria, instead it simply reduces the diversity if the bacteria.
Using bleach and other hand sanitizers eliminate certain "good bacteria" which are necessary for keeping the skin hydrated.
The elimination of these bacteria increase screen dryness and thus the susceptibility to certain types of infections.Unless you are in a hospital, then you should limit yourself to regular soap or hand rinsing.
I am not suggesting becoming a hippie with regards to hygiene, I simply suggesting that you need to do what make the most sense for the body.
Everything is a question of balance.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634068</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30636228</id>
	<title>Re:This article is so RIGHT</title>
	<author>gnud</author>
	<datestamp>1262527380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How nice it is to live in an evil socialist country with evil socialist medicine where your doctor fills out a standardized form that says you're sick and entitled to sick pay.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How nice it is to live in an evil socialist country with evil socialist medicine where your doctor fills out a standardized form that says you 're sick and entitled to sick pay .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How nice it is to live in an evil socialist country with evil socialist medicine where your doctor fills out a standardized form that says you're sick and entitled to sick pay.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634438</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634448</id>
	<title>Doonesbury</title>
	<author>dtmos</author>
	<datestamp>1262515200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As usual, <a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2005/images/1218doonesbury\_lg.gif" title="answersingenesis.org">Garry Trudeau said it best</a> [answersingenesis.org].  (Yeah, I carefully selected the bandwidth provider.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As usual , Garry Trudeau said it best [ answersingenesis.org ] .
( Yeah , I carefully selected the bandwidth provider .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As usual, Garry Trudeau said it best [answersingenesis.org].
(Yeah, I carefully selected the bandwidth provider.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30638952</id>
	<title>Re:And when the arm has to come off...</title>
	<author>tg123</author>
	<datestamp>1262604180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Actually dog bites are usually NOT infected and one usually does not give antibiotics for them..................</p></div><p>no</p><p><b> <i>Dog bites are usually infected </i> </b>and if the bite breaks the skin there is the risk of  getting  an infection and/ or  diseases  like rabies.</p><p>"....Cat and dog bites result in 334,000 emergency room visits per year, which represents approximately 1 percent of all emergency hospital visits..."</p><p><a href="http://www.healthline.com/galecontent/animal-bite-infections" title="healthline.com">http://www.healthline.com/galecontent/animal-bite-infections</a> [healthline.com]</p><p>If you live in an area that has rabies than you need to go to a doctor and have rabies shots.</p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-exposure\_prophylaxis" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-exposure\_prophylaxis</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually dog bites are usually NOT infected and one usually does not give antibiotics for them..................no Dog bites are usually infected and if the bite breaks the skin there is the risk of getting an infection and/ or diseases like rabies .
" ....Cat and dog bites result in 334,000 emergency room visits per year , which represents approximately 1 percent of all emergency hospital visits... " http : //www.healthline.com/galecontent/animal-bite-infections [ healthline.com ] If you live in an area that has rabies than you need to go to a doctor and have rabies shots.http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-exposure \ _prophylaxis [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually dog bites are usually NOT infected and one usually does not give antibiotics for them..................no Dog bites are usually infected  and if the bite breaks the skin there is the risk of  getting  an infection and/ or  diseases  like rabies.
"....Cat and dog bites result in 334,000 emergency room visits per year, which represents approximately 1 percent of all emergency hospital visits..."http://www.healthline.com/galecontent/animal-bite-infections [healthline.com]If you live in an area that has rabies than you need to go to a doctor and have rabies shots.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-exposure\_prophylaxis [wikipedia.org]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30637140</id>
	<title>Re:The People Problem</title>
	<author>russotto</author>
	<datestamp>1262536140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Contrary to what you stated, MRSA -is- a huge problem outside of the hospital and nursing home environments. Most urban locales now have high enough rates of MRSA floating around in the community (i.e. community-acquired MRSA, or CA-MRSA) that it has required some level of empiric MRSA coverage for skin infections.</p><blockquote><div><p>MRSA didn't evolve in the community, thought; it has spread there from the hospitals.  The OP's point stands, then; it's not overprescription of antibiotics outside hospitals which has resulted in MRSA.</p></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Contrary to what you stated , MRSA -is- a huge problem outside of the hospital and nursing home environments .
Most urban locales now have high enough rates of MRSA floating around in the community ( i.e .
community-acquired MRSA , or CA-MRSA ) that it has required some level of empiric MRSA coverage for skin infections.MRSA did n't evolve in the community , thought ; it has spread there from the hospitals .
The OP 's point stands , then ; it 's not overprescription of antibiotics outside hospitals which has resulted in MRSA .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Contrary to what you stated, MRSA -is- a huge problem outside of the hospital and nursing home environments.
Most urban locales now have high enough rates of MRSA floating around in the community (i.e.
community-acquired MRSA, or CA-MRSA) that it has required some level of empiric MRSA coverage for skin infections.MRSA didn't evolve in the community, thought; it has spread there from the hospitals.
The OP's point stands, then; it's not overprescription of antibiotics outside hospitals which has resulted in MRSA.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30636258</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30635164</id>
	<title>Re:This article is so RIGHT</title>
	<author>Vintermann</author>
	<datestamp>1262519940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In general, this would matter and does matter (hint: the further north in the country you come from, the more careful should you be with what you eat when on vacation!). But for a hospital infection, not so much I think.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In general , this would matter and does matter ( hint : the further north in the country you come from , the more careful should you be with what you eat when on vacation ! ) .
But for a hospital infection , not so much I think .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In general, this would matter and does matter (hint: the further north in the country you come from, the more careful should you be with what you eat when on vacation!).
But for a hospital infection, not so much I think.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634228</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30635088</id>
	<title>Re:Tip for USA</title>
	<author>Mishotaki</author>
	<datestamp>1262519520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>A Danish study showed you can cut sick days in kindergartens <b>by half</b> by forcing all children to wash their hands twice a day.</p></div><p>Damned Danish commies! How dare they force their poor children to do something as horrible as murdering all those innocent bacterias!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A Danish study showed you can cut sick days in kindergartens by half by forcing all children to wash their hands twice a day.Damned Danish commies !
How dare they force their poor children to do something as horrible as murdering all those innocent bacterias !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A Danish study showed you can cut sick days in kindergartens by half by forcing all children to wash their hands twice a day.Damned Danish commies!
How dare they force their poor children to do something as horrible as murdering all those innocent bacterias!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634342</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634206</id>
	<title>Re:Stop with the drugs already</title>
	<author>introspekt.i</author>
	<datestamp>1262513160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>... lobbies haven't chipped away at the na&#239;vet&#233; of youth.</p></div><p> There, fixed that for you.  Now go get vaccinated and get off my lawn.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>... lobbies have n't chipped away at the na   vet   of youth .
There , fixed that for you .
Now go get vaccinated and get off my lawn .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ... lobbies haven't chipped away at the naïveté of youth.
There, fixed that for you.
Now go get vaccinated and get off my lawn.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634696</id>
	<title>Re:Tip for USA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262516760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>" A Belgian Doctor once told me he believed antibiotics should be given as a  prevention to all kindergarten kids. "</p><p>That's weird because I'm Belgian and here there is a very very strong media-wide anti-antibiotics campaign from the ministry of health.<br>Doctors will never give you antibiotics unless you're almost dying<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) I've never seen any Doctor here give any antibiotic easily<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" A Belgian Doctor once told me he believed antibiotics should be given as a prevention to all kindergarten kids .
" That 's weird because I 'm Belgian and here there is a very very strong media-wide anti-antibiotics campaign from the ministry of health.Doctors will never give you antibiotics unless you 're almost dying : ) I 've never seen any Doctor here give any antibiotic easily .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>" A Belgian Doctor once told me he believed antibiotics should be given as a  prevention to all kindergarten kids.
"That's weird because I'm Belgian and here there is a very very strong media-wide anti-antibiotics campaign from the ministry of health.Doctors will never give you antibiotics unless you're almost dying :) I've never seen any Doctor here give any antibiotic easily ...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634342</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30637572</id>
	<title>Re:This article is so RIGHT</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262540580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In short, people are idiots and everyone should really be following the example the Norwegians have set here.</p></div><p>But Norwegians are idiots too.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In short , people are idiots and everyone should really be following the example the Norwegians have set here.But Norwegians are idiots too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In short, people are idiots and everyone should really be following the example the Norwegians have set here.But Norwegians are idiots too.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634130</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634774</id>
	<title>Re:This article is so RIGHT</title>
	<author>geirnord</author>
	<datestamp>1262517360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Probably little, as I presume this would quickly be discovered in larger countries like the US. MRSA infections would be less common in winter, or generally colder regions, which they are not.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Probably little , as I presume this would quickly be discovered in larger countries like the US .
MRSA infections would be less common in winter , or generally colder regions , which they are not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Probably little, as I presume this would quickly be discovered in larger countries like the US.
MRSA infections would be less common in winter, or generally colder regions, which they are not.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634228</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30640568</id>
	<title>Re:How did they do this?</title>
	<author>u38cg</author>
	<datestamp>1262620200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In hospitals, staph infections are more serious than they are in the outside world, due to the patient already having some reason to be in hospital.  Hence, infections are treated with antibiotics (or the patient is already takign them for something else), hence the rise of MRSA.  And the position of the UK is exaggerated - if you need them, you'll get them.  If you've got a cold, go home.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In hospitals , staph infections are more serious than they are in the outside world , due to the patient already having some reason to be in hospital .
Hence , infections are treated with antibiotics ( or the patient is already takign them for something else ) , hence the rise of MRSA .
And the position of the UK is exaggerated - if you need them , you 'll get them .
If you 've got a cold , go home .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In hospitals, staph infections are more serious than they are in the outside world, due to the patient already having some reason to be in hospital.
Hence, infections are treated with antibiotics (or the patient is already takign them for something else), hence the rise of MRSA.
And the position of the UK is exaggerated - if you need them, you'll get them.
If you've got a cold, go home.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634112</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30638652</id>
	<title>In the UK, the issue is public sector unions</title>
	<author>Budenny</author>
	<datestamp>1262599620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In the UK, the issue is the public sector unions.</p><p>No amount of cajoling will make nurses wash their hands between patients.  There has to be some form of sanction.  But the UK health industry is nationalized, therefore it is represented by the government employees trade union, and that is opposed fiercely to all discipline of all sorts.  There are thus no sanctions whatever, and the result is that despite endless government initiatives, hand wash stations all over the place in hospitals, hands are not being washed.  And there are still infections.  It is one of the great unspoken risks about going in for surgery in the UK.</p><p>In fact, if you go in to one of the few hospitals that pre screens patients for MRSA, the people doing the screening, the first thing they ask is if you have been in hospital recently.  If you say no, they tell you that you will almost certainly be clear.  The main vector of infection in the UK is the National Health Service.  If you know many people who have been hospitalized, you find that many of them have been infected.  And many more die of it than is admitted.  The cause of death on the certificate will be the proximate cause.  Whether they had a bad case of MRSA when they died of it, who knows?</p><p>As long as people on wards dealing with patients have no sanctions to fear from not washing their hands, enough of them will not bother to make it impossible to really change matters, and as long as they are all represented by Unison with its close links to the Labour Party, there will be no sanctions.</p><p>So we will see people talking about contracting out of hospital cleaning services - an obsession with Unison, but irrelevant, and we'll also hear about over prescribing of antibiotics, also not the problem.  Do something to make these guys wash their hands, and the operative word is MAKE, and the problem will vanish overnight.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In the UK , the issue is the public sector unions.No amount of cajoling will make nurses wash their hands between patients .
There has to be some form of sanction .
But the UK health industry is nationalized , therefore it is represented by the government employees trade union , and that is opposed fiercely to all discipline of all sorts .
There are thus no sanctions whatever , and the result is that despite endless government initiatives , hand wash stations all over the place in hospitals , hands are not being washed .
And there are still infections .
It is one of the great unspoken risks about going in for surgery in the UK.In fact , if you go in to one of the few hospitals that pre screens patients for MRSA , the people doing the screening , the first thing they ask is if you have been in hospital recently .
If you say no , they tell you that you will almost certainly be clear .
The main vector of infection in the UK is the National Health Service .
If you know many people who have been hospitalized , you find that many of them have been infected .
And many more die of it than is admitted .
The cause of death on the certificate will be the proximate cause .
Whether they had a bad case of MRSA when they died of it , who knows ? As long as people on wards dealing with patients have no sanctions to fear from not washing their hands , enough of them will not bother to make it impossible to really change matters , and as long as they are all represented by Unison with its close links to the Labour Party , there will be no sanctions.So we will see people talking about contracting out of hospital cleaning services - an obsession with Unison , but irrelevant , and we 'll also hear about over prescribing of antibiotics , also not the problem .
Do something to make these guys wash their hands , and the operative word is MAKE , and the problem will vanish overnight .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the UK, the issue is the public sector unions.No amount of cajoling will make nurses wash their hands between patients.
There has to be some form of sanction.
But the UK health industry is nationalized, therefore it is represented by the government employees trade union, and that is opposed fiercely to all discipline of all sorts.
There are thus no sanctions whatever, and the result is that despite endless government initiatives, hand wash stations all over the place in hospitals, hands are not being washed.
And there are still infections.
It is one of the great unspoken risks about going in for surgery in the UK.In fact, if you go in to one of the few hospitals that pre screens patients for MRSA, the people doing the screening, the first thing they ask is if you have been in hospital recently.
If you say no, they tell you that you will almost certainly be clear.
The main vector of infection in the UK is the National Health Service.
If you know many people who have been hospitalized, you find that many of them have been infected.
And many more die of it than is admitted.
The cause of death on the certificate will be the proximate cause.
Whether they had a bad case of MRSA when they died of it, who knows?As long as people on wards dealing with patients have no sanctions to fear from not washing their hands, enough of them will not bother to make it impossible to really change matters, and as long as they are all represented by Unison with its close links to the Labour Party, there will be no sanctions.So we will see people talking about contracting out of hospital cleaning services - an obsession with Unison, but irrelevant, and we'll also hear about over prescribing of antibiotics, also not the problem.
Do something to make these guys wash their hands, and the operative word is MAKE, and the problem will vanish overnight.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634908</id>
	<title>New theory</title>
	<author>freedumb2000</author>
	<datestamp>1262518260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's cold in Norway. Bugs die quicker.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's cold in Norway .
Bugs die quicker .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's cold in Norway.
Bugs die quicker.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634406</id>
	<title>Re:The People Problem</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262514600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>They are prescription only here as well but many patients will bully doctors into doing this; doctors also err on the side of caution because of lawsuits. Agree on the ads - if only doctors are allowed to make the decision, they should be the only ones ads are targeted at (in medical journals, etc).</htmltext>
<tokenext>They are prescription only here as well but many patients will bully doctors into doing this ; doctors also err on the side of caution because of lawsuits .
Agree on the ads - if only doctors are allowed to make the decision , they should be the only ones ads are targeted at ( in medical journals , etc ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They are prescription only here as well but many patients will bully doctors into doing this; doctors also err on the side of caution because of lawsuits.
Agree on the ads - if only doctors are allowed to make the decision, they should be the only ones ads are targeted at (in medical journals, etc).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634316</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634886</id>
	<title>When I lost my insurance...</title>
	<author>SirWinston</author>
	<datestamp>1262518140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>About 5 years ago, I had to give up my health insurance (Kaiser Permanente HMO, really) because we moved to a more rural area where they don't have local infrastructure.  I didn't get regular health insurance from another company because my Kaiser coverage had been subsidized through an old employer plan, and everything else was too expensive.  I worried that I'd get really sick and not have my HMO coverage, because I was used to going a few times a year for various things.</p><p>Fast forward 5 years later, and I haven't been to a doctor or hospital at all in that time.  I seem to get sick less often than I did before when I'd go to the HMO 3 or 4 times a year with minor ailments, and when I do get sick it's less serious and goes away faster.  I've had no antibiotics in that time, just OTC meds (but I avoid fever-reducers unless my fever goes above 102, because fever is one of the body's natural defense mechanisms against microorganisms).</p><p>The net result is that me and my immune system are happier, healthier, and wealthier, now that we're not over-relying on doctors and antibiotics.  I also believe my household's complete lack of over-cleansing is part of the recipe for good health--people who clean obsessively and use that antibacterial cleanser are destroying harmless bacteria which usually "crowd out" the harmful strains, or at least leave them a minimal space to grow.  But when your household is super-clean and a harmful bacterium arrives, it has room to grow everywhere since there's no existing bacterial ecosystem to compete with.  Who knew that my stereotypical geeky tendency towards slight messiness and wearing the same clothes 2 days in a row thanks to all-night gaming/writing sessions might increase my health...</p><p>I'm sure I'll have to visit the doctor or hospital eventually when something serious happens.  Until then, I see my seemingly better health now than when I was going to the doctor several times a year as an anecdotal vindication of the hypothesis that too much cleanliness and hygiene and antibiotic use can be as bad or worse than none, because our immune systems need to develop and thrive by exposure to lesser bacteria in order to be ready to take on serious ones.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>About 5 years ago , I had to give up my health insurance ( Kaiser Permanente HMO , really ) because we moved to a more rural area where they do n't have local infrastructure .
I did n't get regular health insurance from another company because my Kaiser coverage had been subsidized through an old employer plan , and everything else was too expensive .
I worried that I 'd get really sick and not have my HMO coverage , because I was used to going a few times a year for various things.Fast forward 5 years later , and I have n't been to a doctor or hospital at all in that time .
I seem to get sick less often than I did before when I 'd go to the HMO 3 or 4 times a year with minor ailments , and when I do get sick it 's less serious and goes away faster .
I 've had no antibiotics in that time , just OTC meds ( but I avoid fever-reducers unless my fever goes above 102 , because fever is one of the body 's natural defense mechanisms against microorganisms ) .The net result is that me and my immune system are happier , healthier , and wealthier , now that we 're not over-relying on doctors and antibiotics .
I also believe my household 's complete lack of over-cleansing is part of the recipe for good health--people who clean obsessively and use that antibacterial cleanser are destroying harmless bacteria which usually " crowd out " the harmful strains , or at least leave them a minimal space to grow .
But when your household is super-clean and a harmful bacterium arrives , it has room to grow everywhere since there 's no existing bacterial ecosystem to compete with .
Who knew that my stereotypical geeky tendency towards slight messiness and wearing the same clothes 2 days in a row thanks to all-night gaming/writing sessions might increase my health...I 'm sure I 'll have to visit the doctor or hospital eventually when something serious happens .
Until then , I see my seemingly better health now than when I was going to the doctor several times a year as an anecdotal vindication of the hypothesis that too much cleanliness and hygiene and antibiotic use can be as bad or worse than none , because our immune systems need to develop and thrive by exposure to lesser bacteria in order to be ready to take on serious ones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>About 5 years ago, I had to give up my health insurance (Kaiser Permanente HMO, really) because we moved to a more rural area where they don't have local infrastructure.
I didn't get regular health insurance from another company because my Kaiser coverage had been subsidized through an old employer plan, and everything else was too expensive.
I worried that I'd get really sick and not have my HMO coverage, because I was used to going a few times a year for various things.Fast forward 5 years later, and I haven't been to a doctor or hospital at all in that time.
I seem to get sick less often than I did before when I'd go to the HMO 3 or 4 times a year with minor ailments, and when I do get sick it's less serious and goes away faster.
I've had no antibiotics in that time, just OTC meds (but I avoid fever-reducers unless my fever goes above 102, because fever is one of the body's natural defense mechanisms against microorganisms).The net result is that me and my immune system are happier, healthier, and wealthier, now that we're not over-relying on doctors and antibiotics.
I also believe my household's complete lack of over-cleansing is part of the recipe for good health--people who clean obsessively and use that antibacterial cleanser are destroying harmless bacteria which usually "crowd out" the harmful strains, or at least leave them a minimal space to grow.
But when your household is super-clean and a harmful bacterium arrives, it has room to grow everywhere since there's no existing bacterial ecosystem to compete with.
Who knew that my stereotypical geeky tendency towards slight messiness and wearing the same clothes 2 days in a row thanks to all-night gaming/writing sessions might increase my health...I'm sure I'll have to visit the doctor or hospital eventually when something serious happens.
Until then, I see my seemingly better health now than when I was going to the doctor several times a year as an anecdotal vindication of the hypothesis that too much cleanliness and hygiene and antibiotic use can be as bad or worse than none, because our immune systems need to develop and thrive by exposure to lesser bacteria in order to be ready to take on serious ones.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30639300</id>
	<title>Something to think about</title>
	<author>OMFG it's Rici</author>
	<datestamp>1262609640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>When my father first started his career as a medic the common prescription for antibiotics was in the 250mg range, after a few years it became 500mg and today we are at 1gram prescriptions and sometimes it's not even enough.</htmltext>
<tokenext>When my father first started his career as a medic the common prescription for antibiotics was in the 250mg range , after a few years it became 500mg and today we are at 1gram prescriptions and sometimes it 's not even enough .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When my father first started his career as a medic the common prescription for antibiotics was in the 250mg range, after a few years it became 500mg and today we are at 1gram prescriptions and sometimes it's not even enough.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634144</id>
	<title>Hmm...</title>
	<author>fuzzyfuzzyfungus</author>
	<datestamp>1262512620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Clearly, it sounds like Norwegian hospitals are on the right track, with respect to antibiotic handling. <br> <br>

I would be interested to know, though, how much the favorable microbial climate there is due to medical attitudes toward antibiotic use, and how much comes down to antibiotic use(and ideally nonuse) in the agricultural sector. At least in the US, medical antibiotic misuse is quite visible, and makes for a good morality tale(lazy, impatient, whiny consumers demand quick fix, need to learn more patience); but most <i>livestock</i> are given a constant low dose of various antibiotics(pretty much the best scenario for antibiotic resistance) for most of their lives. Then they are chopped up and ground together, to spread anything that they might have evolved evenly through the food supply(and, since a fair few antibiotic-resistance adaptations occur on bacterial plasmids, rather than in their core genomes, they can spread from species to species pretty quickly).<br> <br>

The problem is comparatively invisible, since most people don't see what goes on inside the barn, while a great many doctors are more than happy to encourage(at least generally, if not always when they have a distressed parent and some crying sniffling baby to deal with) responsible antibiotic use; but over half of US-produced antibiotics go into livestock rather than humans(and the numbers might actually be worse than that sounds, since it could well be that bulk agricultural antibiotics are more likely to be produced in cheaper offshore locations than are the more heavily regulated, and more profitable, human ones).<br> <br>
It would be very interesting to know what the Norwegian agricultural sector is up to in this respect, and how much of an effect that has.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Clearly , it sounds like Norwegian hospitals are on the right track , with respect to antibiotic handling .
I would be interested to know , though , how much the favorable microbial climate there is due to medical attitudes toward antibiotic use , and how much comes down to antibiotic use ( and ideally nonuse ) in the agricultural sector .
At least in the US , medical antibiotic misuse is quite visible , and makes for a good morality tale ( lazy , impatient , whiny consumers demand quick fix , need to learn more patience ) ; but most livestock are given a constant low dose of various antibiotics ( pretty much the best scenario for antibiotic resistance ) for most of their lives .
Then they are chopped up and ground together , to spread anything that they might have evolved evenly through the food supply ( and , since a fair few antibiotic-resistance adaptations occur on bacterial plasmids , rather than in their core genomes , they can spread from species to species pretty quickly ) .
The problem is comparatively invisible , since most people do n't see what goes on inside the barn , while a great many doctors are more than happy to encourage ( at least generally , if not always when they have a distressed parent and some crying sniffling baby to deal with ) responsible antibiotic use ; but over half of US-produced antibiotics go into livestock rather than humans ( and the numbers might actually be worse than that sounds , since it could well be that bulk agricultural antibiotics are more likely to be produced in cheaper offshore locations than are the more heavily regulated , and more profitable , human ones ) .
It would be very interesting to know what the Norwegian agricultural sector is up to in this respect , and how much of an effect that has .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Clearly, it sounds like Norwegian hospitals are on the right track, with respect to antibiotic handling.
I would be interested to know, though, how much the favorable microbial climate there is due to medical attitudes toward antibiotic use, and how much comes down to antibiotic use(and ideally nonuse) in the agricultural sector.
At least in the US, medical antibiotic misuse is quite visible, and makes for a good morality tale(lazy, impatient, whiny consumers demand quick fix, need to learn more patience); but most livestock are given a constant low dose of various antibiotics(pretty much the best scenario for antibiotic resistance) for most of their lives.
Then they are chopped up and ground together, to spread anything that they might have evolved evenly through the food supply(and, since a fair few antibiotic-resistance adaptations occur on bacterial plasmids, rather than in their core genomes, they can spread from species to species pretty quickly).
The problem is comparatively invisible, since most people don't see what goes on inside the barn, while a great many doctors are more than happy to encourage(at least generally, if not always when they have a distressed parent and some crying sniffling baby to deal with) responsible antibiotic use; but over half of US-produced antibiotics go into livestock rather than humans(and the numbers might actually be worse than that sounds, since it could well be that bulk agricultural antibiotics are more likely to be produced in cheaper offshore locations than are the more heavily regulated, and more profitable, human ones).
It would be very interesting to know what the Norwegian agricultural sector is up to in this respect, and how much of an effect that has.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30640338</id>
	<title>What?</title>
	<author>clint999</author>
	<datestamp>1262619000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>How can you be sure that methicillin would not exist? After all the famous antibiotic penicillin came from bread mold.It's not just humans that want/need to kill undesirable bacteria.fungi, bacteria etc have been killing each other for the past billion years or so.</p></div></blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How can you be sure that methicillin would not exist ?
After all the famous antibiotic penicillin came from bread mold.It 's not just humans that want/need to kill undesirable bacteria.fungi , bacteria etc have been killing each other for the past billion years or so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How can you be sure that methicillin would not exist?
After all the famous antibiotic penicillin came from bread mold.It's not just humans that want/need to kill undesirable bacteria.fungi, bacteria etc have been killing each other for the past billion years or so.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30636424</id>
	<title>10 bucks says...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262529120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>..that a big pharma representative is on his way to Norway right now with a vial of MRSA extract and a press release statement that says, "We toldja so, buy new UberMed (tm) today and you'll all be safe".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>..that a big pharma representative is on his way to Norway right now with a vial of MRSA extract and a press release statement that says , " We toldja so , buy new UberMed ( tm ) today and you 'll all be safe " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>..that a big pharma representative is on his way to Norway right now with a vial of MRSA extract and a press release statement that says, "We toldja so, buy new UberMed (tm) today and you'll all be safe".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30635376</id>
	<title>Re:How did they do this?</title>
	<author>hachete</author>
	<datestamp>1262521260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In the UK, cleaning was almost universally outsourced, because of some management ideology about core-functions. It turns out that cleaning *is* a core function of a hospital (see a previous poster about the training of Norwegian cleaners) and should not be left to the cheapest bidder.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In the UK , cleaning was almost universally outsourced , because of some management ideology about core-functions .
It turns out that cleaning * is * a core function of a hospital ( see a previous poster about the training of Norwegian cleaners ) and should not be left to the cheapest bidder .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the UK, cleaning was almost universally outsourced, because of some management ideology about core-functions.
It turns out that cleaning *is* a core function of a hospital (see a previous poster about the training of Norwegian cleaners) and should not be left to the cheapest bidder.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634214</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634130</id>
	<title>This article is so RIGHT</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262512440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>So much of modern antibiotic use (at least in the U. S.) is hugely irresponsible. Doctors prescribe antibiotics not because they are necessary, but because they are heckled by patients who want a prescription to justify their trip to the doctor's office and because they are encouraged by pharmaceutical companies to move their products. <br> <br>
Anybody who knows anything about biochemistry and/or pharmaceuticals knows that novel drugs that are SAFE and EFFECTIVE are enormously expensive to develop and clinically test. It's idiotic to use these medical tools, which have finite effectiveness due to resistance development, unless they are truly necessary.<br> <br>
Antibiotic-resistant bacteria develop their resistance at a cost - a resistant organism that can out-survive normal bacteria in the presence of antibiotics will probably die out in a normal environment if it hasn't already gained an overwhelming majority. The mutations that provide antibiotic resistance will, in most cases, make the organism less fit or efficient than an unresistant strain in an antibiotic-free environment. The fact that Norway's policies are working is partial proof of this. <br> <br>
In short, people are idiots and everyone should really be following the example the Norwegians have set here.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So much of modern antibiotic use ( at least in the U. S. ) is hugely irresponsible .
Doctors prescribe antibiotics not because they are necessary , but because they are heckled by patients who want a prescription to justify their trip to the doctor 's office and because they are encouraged by pharmaceutical companies to move their products .
Anybody who knows anything about biochemistry and/or pharmaceuticals knows that novel drugs that are SAFE and EFFECTIVE are enormously expensive to develop and clinically test .
It 's idiotic to use these medical tools , which have finite effectiveness due to resistance development , unless they are truly necessary .
Antibiotic-resistant bacteria develop their resistance at a cost - a resistant organism that can out-survive normal bacteria in the presence of antibiotics will probably die out in a normal environment if it has n't already gained an overwhelming majority .
The mutations that provide antibiotic resistance will , in most cases , make the organism less fit or efficient than an unresistant strain in an antibiotic-free environment .
The fact that Norway 's policies are working is partial proof of this .
In short , people are idiots and everyone should really be following the example the Norwegians have set here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So much of modern antibiotic use (at least in the U. S.) is hugely irresponsible.
Doctors prescribe antibiotics not because they are necessary, but because they are heckled by patients who want a prescription to justify their trip to the doctor's office and because they are encouraged by pharmaceutical companies to move their products.
Anybody who knows anything about biochemistry and/or pharmaceuticals knows that novel drugs that are SAFE and EFFECTIVE are enormously expensive to develop and clinically test.
It's idiotic to use these medical tools, which have finite effectiveness due to resistance development, unless they are truly necessary.
Antibiotic-resistant bacteria develop their resistance at a cost - a resistant organism that can out-survive normal bacteria in the presence of antibiotics will probably die out in a normal environment if it hasn't already gained an overwhelming majority.
The mutations that provide antibiotic resistance will, in most cases, make the organism less fit or efficient than an unresistant strain in an antibiotic-free environment.
The fact that Norway's policies are working is partial proof of this.
In short, people are idiots and everyone should really be following the example the Norwegians have set here.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30648974</id>
	<title>Re:ALL hospitals have MRSA</title>
	<author>Lunzo</author>
	<datestamp>1262611740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I disagree with the people rubbishing antibiotics too. Antibiotics are a suitable treatment for certain illnesses.</p><p>On the topic of MRSA, the relevant cause/effect is cleanliness of hospitals. I disagree with your assertion that hospitals are generally clean. The scientific evidence shows that cleanliness will slip if it isn't encouraged or reinforced repeatedly. In Australia they did a study of doctors' hand-washing habits both before and after an advertising campaign to get them to wash their hands more. I was appalled at how few doctors wash their hands before examining every patient. The study showed that during the hand-washing campaign the rate of doctors washing before every patient went from about 40\% to 66\%, and the infection rate of MRSA dropped dramatically while the campaign was in effect.</p><p>Add to the problem of doctors and nurses not washing their hands often/thoroughly enough, the fact that outsourced cleaners in hospitals not cleaning to medical standards and that's how MRSA spreads. Other posts already talked about cleaners not being trained adequately for working in a hospital environment, so I won't discuss it here.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I disagree with the people rubbishing antibiotics too .
Antibiotics are a suitable treatment for certain illnesses.On the topic of MRSA , the relevant cause/effect is cleanliness of hospitals .
I disagree with your assertion that hospitals are generally clean .
The scientific evidence shows that cleanliness will slip if it is n't encouraged or reinforced repeatedly .
In Australia they did a study of doctors ' hand-washing habits both before and after an advertising campaign to get them to wash their hands more .
I was appalled at how few doctors wash their hands before examining every patient .
The study showed that during the hand-washing campaign the rate of doctors washing before every patient went from about 40 \ % to 66 \ % , and the infection rate of MRSA dropped dramatically while the campaign was in effect.Add to the problem of doctors and nurses not washing their hands often/thoroughly enough , the fact that outsourced cleaners in hospitals not cleaning to medical standards and that 's how MRSA spreads .
Other posts already talked about cleaners not being trained adequately for working in a hospital environment , so I wo n't discuss it here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I disagree with the people rubbishing antibiotics too.
Antibiotics are a suitable treatment for certain illnesses.On the topic of MRSA, the relevant cause/effect is cleanliness of hospitals.
I disagree with your assertion that hospitals are generally clean.
The scientific evidence shows that cleanliness will slip if it isn't encouraged or reinforced repeatedly.
In Australia they did a study of doctors' hand-washing habits both before and after an advertising campaign to get them to wash their hands more.
I was appalled at how few doctors wash their hands before examining every patient.
The study showed that during the hand-washing campaign the rate of doctors washing before every patient went from about 40\% to 66\%, and the infection rate of MRSA dropped dramatically while the campaign was in effect.Add to the problem of doctors and nurses not washing their hands often/thoroughly enough, the fact that outsourced cleaners in hospitals not cleaning to medical standards and that's how MRSA spreads.
Other posts already talked about cleaners not being trained adequately for working in a hospital environment, so I won't discuss it here.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30635186</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30637530</id>
	<title>Re:Tip for USA</title>
	<author>Rakshasa Taisab</author>
	<datestamp>1262540220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, it's common knowledge amongst parents in Norway that kindergarten is the best place to build up your kids' immune system. Your kid getting sick from eating dirt or someone's snot is the reason you send your kids there.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , it 's common knowledge amongst parents in Norway that kindergarten is the best place to build up your kids ' immune system .
Your kid getting sick from eating dirt or someone 's snot is the reason you send your kids there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, it's common knowledge amongst parents in Norway that kindergarten is the best place to build up your kids' immune system.
Your kid getting sick from eating dirt or someone's snot is the reason you send your kids there.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634342</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30635530</id>
	<title>Re:How did they do this?</title>
	<author>GrumblyStuff</author>
	<datestamp>1262522220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>shit tips?</p><p>Man, I love the internet.  Just when I think I've been exposed to every combination of words, I learn another.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>shit tips ? Man , I love the internet .
Just when I think I 've been exposed to every combination of words , I learn another .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>shit tips?Man, I love the internet.
Just when I think I've been exposed to every combination of words, I learn another.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634214</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634582</id>
	<title>Re:Article is confusing</title>
	<author>Brown</author>
	<datestamp>1262516220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In a sense, it does make Staph less problematic, in that, for <b>serious</b> infections, antibiotics can still be used effectively - unlike against resistant strains. In order to avoid resistance evolving, antibiotics should be used with maximum effect (killing the infection before any resistance occurs), or not at all.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In a sense , it does make Staph less problematic , in that , for serious infections , antibiotics can still be used effectively - unlike against resistant strains .
In order to avoid resistance evolving , antibiotics should be used with maximum effect ( killing the infection before any resistance occurs ) , or not at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In a sense, it does make Staph less problematic, in that, for serious infections, antibiotics can still be used effectively - unlike against resistant strains.
In order to avoid resistance evolving, antibiotics should be used with maximum effect (killing the infection before any resistance occurs), or not at all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634330</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634240</id>
	<title>Re:The People Problem</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262513340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I take as many antibiotics as possible specifically to breed better super bugs.<br>And only a time travelling Bruce Willis can stop me now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I take as many antibiotics as possible specifically to breed better super bugs.And only a time travelling Bruce Willis can stop me now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I take as many antibiotics as possible specifically to breed better super bugs.And only a time travelling Bruce Willis can stop me now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634050</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30637372</id>
	<title>Re:What? Of course it does.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262538540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Um... It is treatable, albeit not always successfully. That's what we have vancomycin for.</p><p>Be afraid of VRSA... Then you're shafted without a treatment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Um... It is treatable , albeit not always successfully .
That 's what we have vancomycin for.Be afraid of VRSA... Then you 're shafted without a treatment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Um... It is treatable, albeit not always successfully.
That's what we have vancomycin for.Be afraid of VRSA... Then you're shafted without a treatment.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634544</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30636076</id>
	<title>Re:Tip for USA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262526360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>In <b>Scandinavia</b>, most doctors are government employees. They have no incentive for prescribing anything and can freely tell their patients to bugger if they ask for useless drugs. Yes, there are disadvantages to "communist" healthcare, but this story shows there are also some clear advantages.</p></div></blockquote><p>In the US, we can't even get a single congressman to read an entire bill before voting on it. How in the hell are we supposed to have confidence in some clusterfuck of a system passed, only to be figured out later to be worse later on? Before we trust a government healthcare system, we must have reason to trust our government officials in office. Clearly, we can't!!!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In Scandinavia , most doctors are government employees .
They have no incentive for prescribing anything and can freely tell their patients to bugger if they ask for useless drugs .
Yes , there are disadvantages to " communist " healthcare , but this story shows there are also some clear advantages.In the US , we ca n't even get a single congressman to read an entire bill before voting on it .
How in the hell are we supposed to have confidence in some clusterfuck of a system passed , only to be figured out later to be worse later on ?
Before we trust a government healthcare system , we must have reason to trust our government officials in office .
Clearly , we ca n't ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In Scandinavia, most doctors are government employees.
They have no incentive for prescribing anything and can freely tell their patients to bugger if they ask for useless drugs.
Yes, there are disadvantages to "communist" healthcare, but this story shows there are also some clear advantages.In the US, we can't even get a single congressman to read an entire bill before voting on it.
How in the hell are we supposed to have confidence in some clusterfuck of a system passed, only to be figured out later to be worse later on?
Before we trust a government healthcare system, we must have reason to trust our government officials in office.
Clearly, we can't!!
!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634342</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30637450</id>
	<title>Ah, anecdotes...</title>
	<author>Vegeta99</author>
	<datestamp>1262539260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm home on break, staying at my parent's house. They're the type with hand sanitizer everywhere. Every sink. Stepmom carries it with her. Wash your hands before you eat, after you pet the dog, after you clean your room, etc. Spare antibiotics abound in the medicine cabinet from not finishing them before.</p><p>The whole house is ALWAYS sick. I haven't had even the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/sniffs/ in 5 years, and the last time I did, I waited until the docs had to keep me in the ER because I had gotten sepsis. I took my whole bottle of antibiotics like I was told.</p><p>A lil dirt never killed anyone.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm home on break , staying at my parent 's house .
They 're the type with hand sanitizer everywhere .
Every sink .
Stepmom carries it with her .
Wash your hands before you eat , after you pet the dog , after you clean your room , etc .
Spare antibiotics abound in the medicine cabinet from not finishing them before.The whole house is ALWAYS sick .
I have n't had even the /sniffs/ in 5 years , and the last time I did , I waited until the docs had to keep me in the ER because I had gotten sepsis .
I took my whole bottle of antibiotics like I was told.A lil dirt never killed anyone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm home on break, staying at my parent's house.
They're the type with hand sanitizer everywhere.
Every sink.
Stepmom carries it with her.
Wash your hands before you eat, after you pet the dog, after you clean your room, etc.
Spare antibiotics abound in the medicine cabinet from not finishing them before.The whole house is ALWAYS sick.
I haven't had even the /sniffs/ in 5 years, and the last time I did, I waited until the docs had to keep me in the ER because I had gotten sepsis.
I took my whole bottle of antibiotics like I was told.A lil dirt never killed anyone.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634834</id>
	<title>Tylenol</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262517720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <em>Tylenol</em> means <em>paracetamol</em>, in case someone else wondered too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Tylenol means paracetamol , in case someone else wondered too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Tylenol means paracetamol, in case someone else wondered too.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634330</id>
	<title>Article is confusing</title>
	<author>piojo</author>
	<datestamp>1262514000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As I understood it, there are 2 separate things Norway is doing to fight MRSA, and they are not related (although the article doesn't point that out):</p><p>1. Norway is tracking the spread of Staph and quarantining victims to limit the spread.</p><p>2. According to the article, Norway isn't prescribing modern antibiotics. This ensures that the Staph that is being passed around Norway probably isn't resistant to antibiotics. <i>This does not make Staph less problematic or control its spread in any way.</i> I'm all for stemming the overuse of antibiotics, but this article smacked of propaganda--or it simply didn't tell the whole story.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As I understood it , there are 2 separate things Norway is doing to fight MRSA , and they are not related ( although the article does n't point that out ) : 1 .
Norway is tracking the spread of Staph and quarantining victims to limit the spread.2 .
According to the article , Norway is n't prescribing modern antibiotics .
This ensures that the Staph that is being passed around Norway probably is n't resistant to antibiotics .
This does not make Staph less problematic or control its spread in any way .
I 'm all for stemming the overuse of antibiotics , but this article smacked of propaganda--or it simply did n't tell the whole story .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As I understood it, there are 2 separate things Norway is doing to fight MRSA, and they are not related (although the article doesn't point that out):1.
Norway is tracking the spread of Staph and quarantining victims to limit the spread.2.
According to the article, Norway isn't prescribing modern antibiotics.
This ensures that the Staph that is being passed around Norway probably isn't resistant to antibiotics.
This does not make Staph less problematic or control its spread in any way.
I'm all for stemming the overuse of antibiotics, but this article smacked of propaganda--or it simply didn't tell the whole story.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634410</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm...</title>
	<author>geirnord</author>
	<datestamp>1262514720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have a wife who have worked, and is working, in the these medical fields. According to her, we (Norway) have some of the strictest laws regarding veterinary use of antibiotics. We had some problems with overuse of antibiotics in the fish farming sector some years back. Since then things have gotten even tighter. In many other countries use of antibiotics as a preventative medication in food is the norm. This is not legal in Norway.</p><p>The effect of this is not studied, at least to our knowledge, in any scientifically accurate way. However, I believe this is one of the reasons we do not have problems with MRSA in Norway. There are few natural places where you can be infected i nNorway, whereas in USA you can get MRSA from spending time at the beach!! Ref: <a href="http://pagingdrgupta.blogs.cnn.com/2009/02/16/mrsa-on-the-beach/" title="cnn.com" rel="nofollow">http://pagingdrgupta.blogs.cnn.com/2009/02/16/mrsa-on-the-beach/</a> [cnn.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a wife who have worked , and is working , in the these medical fields .
According to her , we ( Norway ) have some of the strictest laws regarding veterinary use of antibiotics .
We had some problems with overuse of antibiotics in the fish farming sector some years back .
Since then things have gotten even tighter .
In many other countries use of antibiotics as a preventative medication in food is the norm .
This is not legal in Norway.The effect of this is not studied , at least to our knowledge , in any scientifically accurate way .
However , I believe this is one of the reasons we do not have problems with MRSA in Norway .
There are few natural places where you can be infected i nNorway , whereas in USA you can get MRSA from spending time at the beach ! !
Ref : http : //pagingdrgupta.blogs.cnn.com/2009/02/16/mrsa-on-the-beach/ [ cnn.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a wife who have worked, and is working, in the these medical fields.
According to her, we (Norway) have some of the strictest laws regarding veterinary use of antibiotics.
We had some problems with overuse of antibiotics in the fish farming sector some years back.
Since then things have gotten even tighter.
In many other countries use of antibiotics as a preventative medication in food is the norm.
This is not legal in Norway.The effect of this is not studied, at least to our knowledge, in any scientifically accurate way.
However, I believe this is one of the reasons we do not have problems with MRSA in Norway.
There are few natural places where you can be infected i nNorway, whereas in USA you can get MRSA from spending time at the beach!!
Ref: http://pagingdrgupta.blogs.cnn.com/2009/02/16/mrsa-on-the-beach/ [cnn.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634340</id>
	<title>Um, this is real easy to go to far with</title>
	<author>cdrguru</author>
	<datestamp>1262514060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The major difference in life expenctancy between the middle ages and today is the control of infections.  In oh say 1200 AD, if you got a scratch on your finger and it got infected you were likely doomed.  You would die from it.</p><p>Warfare was pretty horrible as well, because even a minor slash from a bladed weapon was pretty much a death sentance.  It might take a couple of months, but you would almost certainly die.</p><p>Simple things that are easily treated today like <a href="http://kidshealth.org/parent/infections/bacterial\_viral/impetigo.html" title="kidshealth.org">impetigo</a> [kidshealth.org] could indeed be fatal.</p><p>We have had antibiotics of one sort or another since the late 1800s and they have steadily improved.  Today you can pretty much be assured that you aren't going to die from a scratch or cut.  The problem is that we certainly have gone too far with antibiotic use, especially for trivial things.  But do not even think about "living without antibiotics" or some such nonsense.  It has been tried and the results are lots of people die from really trivial stuff.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The major difference in life expenctancy between the middle ages and today is the control of infections .
In oh say 1200 AD , if you got a scratch on your finger and it got infected you were likely doomed .
You would die from it.Warfare was pretty horrible as well , because even a minor slash from a bladed weapon was pretty much a death sentance .
It might take a couple of months , but you would almost certainly die.Simple things that are easily treated today like impetigo [ kidshealth.org ] could indeed be fatal.We have had antibiotics of one sort or another since the late 1800s and they have steadily improved .
Today you can pretty much be assured that you are n't going to die from a scratch or cut .
The problem is that we certainly have gone too far with antibiotic use , especially for trivial things .
But do not even think about " living without antibiotics " or some such nonsense .
It has been tried and the results are lots of people die from really trivial stuff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The major difference in life expenctancy between the middle ages and today is the control of infections.
In oh say 1200 AD, if you got a scratch on your finger and it got infected you were likely doomed.
You would die from it.Warfare was pretty horrible as well, because even a minor slash from a bladed weapon was pretty much a death sentance.
It might take a couple of months, but you would almost certainly die.Simple things that are easily treated today like impetigo [kidshealth.org] could indeed be fatal.We have had antibiotics of one sort or another since the late 1800s and they have steadily improved.
Today you can pretty much be assured that you aren't going to die from a scratch or cut.
The problem is that we certainly have gone too far with antibiotic use, especially for trivial things.
But do not even think about "living without antibiotics" or some such nonsense.
It has been tried and the results are lots of people die from really trivial stuff.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30639278</id>
	<title>Something to think about</title>
	<author>OMFG it's Rici</author>
	<datestamp>1262609340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>When my father started as a medic the common antibiotic prescription was in the 250mg range, after a few years it became 500mg.

Today prescriptions are common in the 1 gram range and sometimes it's not even enough.</htmltext>
<tokenext>When my father started as a medic the common antibiotic prescription was in the 250mg range , after a few years it became 500mg .
Today prescriptions are common in the 1 gram range and sometimes it 's not even enough .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When my father started as a medic the common antibiotic prescription was in the 250mg range, after a few years it became 500mg.
Today prescriptions are common in the 1 gram range and sometimes it's not even enough.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634106</id>
	<title>Re:Stop with the drugs already</title>
	<author>Ethanol-fueled</author>
	<datestamp>1262512320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The college I attended posted "OMG FLU Get VACCINATED!!!!1!" flyers everywhere and students were writing things like "bullshit" or "never got one, still alive" on them with magic markers. Glad to see years of media scaremongering and ultrapowerful pill-pushing lobbies haven't chipped away at the cynicism of youth.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The college I attended posted " OMG FLU Get VACCINATED ! ! ! ! 1 !
" flyers everywhere and students were writing things like " bullshit " or " never got one , still alive " on them with magic markers .
Glad to see years of media scaremongering and ultrapowerful pill-pushing lobbies have n't chipped away at the cynicism of youth .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The college I attended posted "OMG FLU Get VACCINATED!!!!1!
" flyers everywhere and students were writing things like "bullshit" or "never got one, still alive" on them with magic markers.
Glad to see years of media scaremongering and ultrapowerful pill-pushing lobbies haven't chipped away at the cynicism of youth.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634004</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634186</id>
	<title>At the other end of the spectrum</title>
	<author>MichaelSmith</author>
	<datestamp>1262513040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>On holiday in Malaysia my son was sick so we took him to a doctor. The doctor couldn't really do anything. My son was reacting to the climate and refusing to eat solids but he gave us a bottle of antibiotic dispensed from his surgery "just in case"</p><p>So I queried that and he quickly said <i>oh well don't worry about it if you don't think he needs it</i>. It seems that everybody in Malaysia just gets antibiotics automatically when they go to the doctor. My wife grew up in Malaysia and when she gets a cough she gets it for weeks at a time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>On holiday in Malaysia my son was sick so we took him to a doctor .
The doctor could n't really do anything .
My son was reacting to the climate and refusing to eat solids but he gave us a bottle of antibiotic dispensed from his surgery " just in case " So I queried that and he quickly said oh well do n't worry about it if you do n't think he needs it .
It seems that everybody in Malaysia just gets antibiotics automatically when they go to the doctor .
My wife grew up in Malaysia and when she gets a cough she gets it for weeks at a time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On holiday in Malaysia my son was sick so we took him to a doctor.
The doctor couldn't really do anything.
My son was reacting to the climate and refusing to eat solids but he gave us a bottle of antibiotic dispensed from his surgery "just in case"So I queried that and he quickly said oh well don't worry about it if you don't think he needs it.
It seems that everybody in Malaysia just gets antibiotics automatically when they go to the doctor.
My wife grew up in Malaysia and when she gets a cough she gets it for weeks at a time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634708</id>
	<title>Re:This article is so RIGHT</title>
	<author>puck01</author>
	<datestamp>1262517000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd like to know where these financial incentives are for prescribing antibiotics because I've never received one.   The drug reps do push there meds, but I don't know anyone that takes them seriously.   They're usually just eye candy or a person to be made fun of after they leave.</p><p>I'll give you the heckling thing tho.   Occasionally after 5 cold visits in a row and multiple demands for antibiotics, some mothers literally screaming at you for not giving their kids antibiotics, one can become weak and may give into a demanding patient later.   We are only human after all.   I actually very rarely cave like that, but it happens.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd like to know where these financial incentives are for prescribing antibiotics because I 've never received one .
The drug reps do push there meds , but I do n't know anyone that takes them seriously .
They 're usually just eye candy or a person to be made fun of after they leave.I 'll give you the heckling thing tho .
Occasionally after 5 cold visits in a row and multiple demands for antibiotics , some mothers literally screaming at you for not giving their kids antibiotics , one can become weak and may give into a demanding patient later .
We are only human after all .
I actually very rarely cave like that , but it happens .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd like to know where these financial incentives are for prescribing antibiotics because I've never received one.
The drug reps do push there meds, but I don't know anyone that takes them seriously.
They're usually just eye candy or a person to be made fun of after they leave.I'll give you the heckling thing tho.
Occasionally after 5 cold visits in a row and multiple demands for antibiotics, some mothers literally screaming at you for not giving their kids antibiotics, one can become weak and may give into a demanding patient later.
We are only human after all.
I actually very rarely cave like that, but it happens.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634130</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634868</id>
	<title>Re:Did someone in Norway really say 'Tylenol' ?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262517960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They did, I am as. We dont have Tylenol here. The most common alternatives are Paracet (containg Paracetamol) and Ibux (Ibuprophen).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They did , I am as .
We dont have Tylenol here .
The most common alternatives are Paracet ( containg Paracetamol ) and Ibux ( Ibuprophen ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They did, I am as.
We dont have Tylenol here.
The most common alternatives are Paracet (containg Paracetamol) and Ibux (Ibuprophen).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30637290</id>
	<title>Re:It's not just the antibiotics that are a proble</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262537820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Dude try some exercise, and if you can not quit your meds:<br>1- buy a mg scale on ebay<br>2- weight a pill<br>3- crush it<br>4- go to 1 but remove 2\% of its original weight each weak</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dude try some exercise , and if you can not quit your meds : 1- buy a mg scale on ebay2- weight a pill3- crush it4- go to 1 but remove 2 \ % of its original weight each weak</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dude try some exercise, and if you can not quit your meds:1- buy a mg scale on ebay2- weight a pill3- crush it4- go to 1 but remove 2\% of its original weight each weak</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634968</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30637004</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262534700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Only antibiotic is allowed in agriculture in Norway, and it is used rather little (the producers have by themselves decided to not use it).  Basically, farmers don't use it because it would give bad press due to the public not wanting it used in their meat.  It is basically only used to cure illnesses after they break out.  There has been some complaining from the fish-industry that want to use more antibiotics, but the use still seems pretty low compared to other contries (still less than a ton used on fish pr year (used to be 50 tons in '87), and Norway is the #2 worldwide fish exporter).  Only two types are used in any significant numbers (Florfenicol, Oxolinic acid), and there are severe restrictions on which types can be used.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Only antibiotic is allowed in agriculture in Norway , and it is used rather little ( the producers have by themselves decided to not use it ) .
Basically , farmers do n't use it because it would give bad press due to the public not wanting it used in their meat .
It is basically only used to cure illnesses after they break out .
There has been some complaining from the fish-industry that want to use more antibiotics , but the use still seems pretty low compared to other contries ( still less than a ton used on fish pr year ( used to be 50 tons in '87 ) , and Norway is the # 2 worldwide fish exporter ) .
Only two types are used in any significant numbers ( Florfenicol , Oxolinic acid ) , and there are severe restrictions on which types can be used .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Only antibiotic is allowed in agriculture in Norway, and it is used rather little (the producers have by themselves decided to not use it).
Basically, farmers don't use it because it would give bad press due to the public not wanting it used in their meat.
It is basically only used to cure illnesses after they break out.
There has been some complaining from the fish-industry that want to use more antibiotics, but the use still seems pretty low compared to other contries (still less than a ton used on fish pr year (used to be 50 tons in '87), and Norway is the #2 worldwide fish exporter).
Only two types are used in any significant numbers (Florfenicol, Oxolinic acid), and there are severe restrictions on which types can be used.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30635174</id>
	<title>Re:Did someone in Norway really say 'Tylenol' ?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262520060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Probably, we would refer to it just as "Paracet".</p><p>Norway has a strict goverment controlled list of what specific drug brand gets to be sold within the country, and tylenol is not in it.</p><p>http://www.felleskatalogen.no/ contains the whole list, if you're curious.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Probably , we would refer to it just as " Paracet " .Norway has a strict goverment controlled list of what specific drug brand gets to be sold within the country , and tylenol is not in it.http : //www.felleskatalogen.no/ contains the whole list , if you 're curious .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Probably, we would refer to it just as "Paracet".Norway has a strict goverment controlled list of what specific drug brand gets to be sold within the country, and tylenol is not in it.http://www.felleskatalogen.no/ contains the whole list, if you're curious.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634808</id>
	<title>Norway, eh?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262517540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I swear, as each day goes by, I see more and more good things about Norway.  I guess it's my new backup country if the good ol' USA ever collapses, just becomes a tool for corporations (much more than currently), or goes Big Brother on me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I swear , as each day goes by , I see more and more good things about Norway .
I guess it 's my new backup country if the good ol ' USA ever collapses , just becomes a tool for corporations ( much more than currently ) , or goes Big Brother on me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I swear, as each day goes by, I see more and more good things about Norway.
I guess it's my new backup country if the good ol' USA ever collapses, just becomes a tool for corporations (much more than currently), or goes Big Brother on me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634968</id>
	<title>It's not just the antibiotics that are a problem</title>
	<author>Lord\_Jeremy</author>
	<datestamp>1262518680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>When I started showing signs of mental health issues and went to see a psychiatrist, their reaction was essentially throw the book at me. They put me on wave after wave of things I can't even pronounce, some of which had horrifying side effects. Eventually, I had such a bad psychological reaction to one of the meds that I had to be admitted to the emergency room. That night, my attending physician signed me over to an insanity ward and I spent three weeks there, unable to leave. Seriously, I was not allowed to leave because I was considered a "danger to myself and others". I can assure you this was not the case at all until people started messing with my head.
<br>
<br>
My point is, these days with every small hiccup in orderly behavior, you get closer and closer to being tossed off a cliff into the pit of mental abnormality. Once you're in that pit, you're free game for doctors to control the way you think. I have friends that have gone through light bouts of depression but now will probably be on dangerous medication for the rest of their lives. I myself am on a dependancy-forming drug that alters the way I think and has a high risk of diabetes and liver failure. Years ago, there were no fancy drugs or somesuch to be prescribed for mental health conditions. For the most part, people just dealt with their issues. I would have gotten over my stress-related issues. Perhaps it would have involved a nervous breakdown, but the modern route put me through much worse.
<br>
<br>
I suppose I'm on the business end of the whole mental health thing, so I'm bound to be biased. Even so, you do not want to get involved in this stuff. I have yet to hear of anyone that has actually been helped, or even not hurt by psychiatrists.</htmltext>
<tokenext>When I started showing signs of mental health issues and went to see a psychiatrist , their reaction was essentially throw the book at me .
They put me on wave after wave of things I ca n't even pronounce , some of which had horrifying side effects .
Eventually , I had such a bad psychological reaction to one of the meds that I had to be admitted to the emergency room .
That night , my attending physician signed me over to an insanity ward and I spent three weeks there , unable to leave .
Seriously , I was not allowed to leave because I was considered a " danger to myself and others " .
I can assure you this was not the case at all until people started messing with my head .
My point is , these days with every small hiccup in orderly behavior , you get closer and closer to being tossed off a cliff into the pit of mental abnormality .
Once you 're in that pit , you 're free game for doctors to control the way you think .
I have friends that have gone through light bouts of depression but now will probably be on dangerous medication for the rest of their lives .
I myself am on a dependancy-forming drug that alters the way I think and has a high risk of diabetes and liver failure .
Years ago , there were no fancy drugs or somesuch to be prescribed for mental health conditions .
For the most part , people just dealt with their issues .
I would have gotten over my stress-related issues .
Perhaps it would have involved a nervous breakdown , but the modern route put me through much worse .
I suppose I 'm on the business end of the whole mental health thing , so I 'm bound to be biased .
Even so , you do not want to get involved in this stuff .
I have yet to hear of anyone that has actually been helped , or even not hurt by psychiatrists .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I started showing signs of mental health issues and went to see a psychiatrist, their reaction was essentially throw the book at me.
They put me on wave after wave of things I can't even pronounce, some of which had horrifying side effects.
Eventually, I had such a bad psychological reaction to one of the meds that I had to be admitted to the emergency room.
That night, my attending physician signed me over to an insanity ward and I spent three weeks there, unable to leave.
Seriously, I was not allowed to leave because I was considered a "danger to myself and others".
I can assure you this was not the case at all until people started messing with my head.
My point is, these days with every small hiccup in orderly behavior, you get closer and closer to being tossed off a cliff into the pit of mental abnormality.
Once you're in that pit, you're free game for doctors to control the way you think.
I have friends that have gone through light bouts of depression but now will probably be on dangerous medication for the rest of their lives.
I myself am on a dependancy-forming drug that alters the way I think and has a high risk of diabetes and liver failure.
Years ago, there were no fancy drugs or somesuch to be prescribed for mental health conditions.
For the most part, people just dealt with their issues.
I would have gotten over my stress-related issues.
Perhaps it would have involved a nervous breakdown, but the modern route put me through much worse.
I suppose I'm on the business end of the whole mental health thing, so I'm bound to be biased.
Even so, you do not want to get involved in this stuff.
I have yet to hear of anyone that has actually been helped, or even not hurt by psychiatrists.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634544</id>
	<title>What? Of course it does.</title>
	<author>BoxedFlame</author>
	<datestamp>1262515920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you get staph in Norway, it's treatable. If you get it in the US it isn't. How does that not solve the problem?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you get staph in Norway , it 's treatable .
If you get it in the US it is n't .
How does that not solve the problem ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you get staph in Norway, it's treatable.
If you get it in the US it isn't.
How does that not solve the problem?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634330</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30637502</id>
	<title>Re:</title>
	<author>clint999</author>
	<datestamp>1262539800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My understanding is that the problems with feeding animals antibiotics is the same as with giving it excessively to humans - i.e. it causes antibiotics to appear everywhere in nature in small doses through waste - which is the perfect environment for bacteria to develop resistance. If we eliminate its use in animals at least part of the problem is solved.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My understanding is that the problems with feeding animals antibiotics is the same as with giving it excessively to humans - i.e .
it causes antibiotics to appear everywhere in nature in small doses through waste - which is the perfect environment for bacteria to develop resistance .
If we eliminate its use in animals at least part of the problem is solved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My understanding is that the problems with feeding animals antibiotics is the same as with giving it excessively to humans - i.e.
it causes antibiotics to appear everywhere in nature in small doses through waste - which is the perfect environment for bacteria to develop resistance.
If we eliminate its use in animals at least part of the problem is solved.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30635956</id>
	<title>Re:Um, this is real easy to go to far with</title>
	<author>jbengt</author>
	<datestamp>1262525580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Whether now or in 1200 AD, scratching your finger would <em>not</em> likely doom you. And the increase in life expectancy caused by antibiotics, while not trivial, have been concentrated in the last 75 years or so. <br>
I would say that bigger improvements to life expectancy since the middle ages have been obtained from better diet and plumbing.  Having abundant clean water and removing human waste from your environment can make a huge difference in health.  And eating vitamin and nutrient rich foods available all year, even outside the growing season can increase your resistance to disease dramatically.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Whether now or in 1200 AD , scratching your finger would not likely doom you .
And the increase in life expectancy caused by antibiotics , while not trivial , have been concentrated in the last 75 years or so .
I would say that bigger improvements to life expectancy since the middle ages have been obtained from better diet and plumbing .
Having abundant clean water and removing human waste from your environment can make a huge difference in health .
And eating vitamin and nutrient rich foods available all year , even outside the growing season can increase your resistance to disease dramatically .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Whether now or in 1200 AD, scratching your finger would not likely doom you.
And the increase in life expectancy caused by antibiotics, while not trivial, have been concentrated in the last 75 years or so.
I would say that bigger improvements to life expectancy since the middle ages have been obtained from better diet and plumbing.
Having abundant clean water and removing human waste from your environment can make a huge difference in health.
And eating vitamin and nutrient rich foods available all year, even outside the growing season can increase your resistance to disease dramatically.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634340</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30636258</id>
	<title>Re:The People Problem</title>
	<author>shrimppesto</author>
	<datestamp>1262527500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Contrary to what you stated, MRSA -is- a huge problem outside of the hospital and nursing home environments.  Most urban locales now have high enough rates of MRSA floating around in the community (i.e. community-acquired MRSA, or CA-MRSA) that it has required some level of empiric MRSA coverage for skin infections.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Contrary to what you stated , MRSA -is- a huge problem outside of the hospital and nursing home environments .
Most urban locales now have high enough rates of MRSA floating around in the community ( i.e .
community-acquired MRSA , or CA-MRSA ) that it has required some level of empiric MRSA coverage for skin infections .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Contrary to what you stated, MRSA -is- a huge problem outside of the hospital and nursing home environments.
Most urban locales now have high enough rates of MRSA floating around in the community (i.e.
community-acquired MRSA, or CA-MRSA) that it has required some level of empiric MRSA coverage for skin infections.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634518</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30636090</id>
	<title>Re:Stop with the drugs already</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262526420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>There is a difference, though, between a polio vaccine and MMR and something like the flu vaccine.  Flu vaccines are only good for one season, if they're even good for the strain your exposed to.  Most data I've seen (too lazy to even get a coke let alone look this up) seem to show them as not being very important for college aged youths.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There is a difference , though , between a polio vaccine and MMR and something like the flu vaccine .
Flu vaccines are only good for one season , if they 're even good for the strain your exposed to .
Most data I 've seen ( too lazy to even get a coke let alone look this up ) seem to show them as not being very important for college aged youths .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is a difference, though, between a polio vaccine and MMR and something like the flu vaccine.
Flu vaccines are only good for one season, if they're even good for the strain your exposed to.
Most data I've seen (too lazy to even get a coke let alone look this up) seem to show them as not being very important for college aged youths.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634164</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634508</id>
	<title>Re:Um, this is real easy to go to far with</title>
	<author>hitmark</author>
	<datestamp>1262515680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>iirc, the infection risks where greatly reduced already before the discovery of antibiotics, thanks to improvements in staff hygiene, and stricter handling and cleaning of tools.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>iirc , the infection risks where greatly reduced already before the discovery of antibiotics , thanks to improvements in staff hygiene , and stricter handling and cleaning of tools .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>iirc, the infection risks where greatly reduced already before the discovery of antibiotics, thanks to improvements in staff hygiene, and stricter handling and cleaning of tools.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634340</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634068</id>
	<title>" from the they-fired-adrian-monk dept. "</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262512140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Firing Adrian Monk is exactly the opposite of how they conquered MRSA. Bleach and alcohol hand sanitizer wipes are much more powerful tools than penicillin and vancomycin. The idea is simple: bugs don't become superbugs if they are a) dead, or b) never exposed to agents which cause them to become superbugs.<br> <br>
This isn't to say antibiotics are a bad idea altogether. Just that they are very much over prescribed and that a much better way of dealing with an unknown infection is to watch it closely to see if it goes away on its own <i>before</i> you bring out the drugs. Of course, this flies directly in the face of capitalism where companies want to sell more drugs and create targets like superbugs that require ever more powerful drugs which can then be patented and used to essentially extort the life from people and governments; pay us or die... Ah, unintended side effects.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Firing Adrian Monk is exactly the opposite of how they conquered MRSA .
Bleach and alcohol hand sanitizer wipes are much more powerful tools than penicillin and vancomycin .
The idea is simple : bugs do n't become superbugs if they are a ) dead , or b ) never exposed to agents which cause them to become superbugs .
This is n't to say antibiotics are a bad idea altogether .
Just that they are very much over prescribed and that a much better way of dealing with an unknown infection is to watch it closely to see if it goes away on its own before you bring out the drugs .
Of course , this flies directly in the face of capitalism where companies want to sell more drugs and create targets like superbugs that require ever more powerful drugs which can then be patented and used to essentially extort the life from people and governments ; pay us or die... Ah , unintended side effects .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Firing Adrian Monk is exactly the opposite of how they conquered MRSA.
Bleach and alcohol hand sanitizer wipes are much more powerful tools than penicillin and vancomycin.
The idea is simple: bugs don't become superbugs if they are a) dead, or b) never exposed to agents which cause them to become superbugs.
This isn't to say antibiotics are a bad idea altogether.
Just that they are very much over prescribed and that a much better way of dealing with an unknown infection is to watch it closely to see if it goes away on its own before you bring out the drugs.
Of course, this flies directly in the face of capitalism where companies want to sell more drugs and create targets like superbugs that require ever more powerful drugs which can then be patented and used to essentially extort the life from people and governments; pay us or die... Ah, unintended side effects.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30635032</id>
	<title>Re:This article is so RIGHT</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262519160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In short, people are idiots and everyone should really be following the example the Norwegians have set here.</p></div><p>I agree! With the addendum that most people are pretty smart, but are fed a solid stream of misinformation and manipulative advertising. And, that the healthcare system in the U.S. is corrupted. It works pretty good as an industry, extracting ungodly amounts of money from people. It works pretty good for the superrich who can afford it. It is a failure in providing efficient healthcare to the population of the country.</p><p>For more on institutional corruption see Lessig's lecture herre : http://www.vimeo.com/7346219</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In short , people are idiots and everyone should really be following the example the Norwegians have set here.I agree !
With the addendum that most people are pretty smart , but are fed a solid stream of misinformation and manipulative advertising .
And , that the healthcare system in the U.S. is corrupted .
It works pretty good as an industry , extracting ungodly amounts of money from people .
It works pretty good for the superrich who can afford it .
It is a failure in providing efficient healthcare to the population of the country.For more on institutional corruption see Lessig 's lecture herre : http : //www.vimeo.com/7346219</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In short, people are idiots and everyone should really be following the example the Norwegians have set here.I agree!
With the addendum that most people are pretty smart, but are fed a solid stream of misinformation and manipulative advertising.
And, that the healthcare system in the U.S. is corrupted.
It works pretty good as an industry, extracting ungodly amounts of money from people.
It works pretty good for the superrich who can afford it.
It is a failure in providing efficient healthcare to the population of the country.For more on institutional corruption see Lessig's lecture herre : http://www.vimeo.com/7346219
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634130</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634896</id>
	<title>Doctors are supposed to be smart</title>
	<author>hyades1</author>
	<datestamp>1262518140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> In many cases, they aren't.  If there's any identifiable group more committed to old, ineffective ways of working, I can't think of one off-hand.  Part of that culture includes working interns to death for so many hours that truck drivers aren't allowed (for safety reasons) to come near them and prescribing pills for every little problem because it makes the patient shut up and go away happy.  They're prime candidates for drug company advertising, and enthusiastic participants in the scam. </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In many cases , they are n't .
If there 's any identifiable group more committed to old , ineffective ways of working , I ca n't think of one off-hand .
Part of that culture includes working interns to death for so many hours that truck drivers are n't allowed ( for safety reasons ) to come near them and prescribing pills for every little problem because it makes the patient shut up and go away happy .
They 're prime candidates for drug company advertising , and enthusiastic participants in the scam .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> In many cases, they aren't.
If there's any identifiable group more committed to old, ineffective ways of working, I can't think of one off-hand.
Part of that culture includes working interns to death for so many hours that truck drivers aren't allowed (for safety reasons) to come near them and prescribing pills for every little problem because it makes the patient shut up and go away happy.
They're prime candidates for drug company advertising, and enthusiastic participants in the scam. </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30636592</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262530620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Then they are chopped up and ground together,</p></div><p>And you eat that?</p><p>It's your own fault.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Then they are chopped up and ground together,And you eat that ? It 's your own fault .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Then they are chopped up and ground together,And you eat that?It's your own fault.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30637926</id>
	<title>Re:Tip for USA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262546220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>that's not an advantage of socialized medicine, it's an advantage of properly regulated medicine, be it market based or socialized.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>that 's not an advantage of socialized medicine , it 's an advantage of properly regulated medicine , be it market based or socialized .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>that's not an advantage of socialized medicine, it's an advantage of properly regulated medicine, be it market based or socialized.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634342</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30639604</id>
	<title>Hey doctor i Need DRUGS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262613180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>this valium isnt working I need your wife Mary J</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>this valium isnt working I need your wife Mary J</tokentext>
<sentencetext>this valium isnt working I need your wife Mary J</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634544</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634426</id>
	<title>Re:Um, this is real easy to go to far with</title>
	<author>jabuzz</author>
	<datestamp>1262514960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wrong the major improvement in life expectancy has been the reduction of infant mortality. Basically if you got past five you had good chance to live to long life. However your chances of getting past five where pretty dire.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wrong the major improvement in life expectancy has been the reduction of infant mortality .
Basically if you got past five you had good chance to live to long life .
However your chances of getting past five where pretty dire .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wrong the major improvement in life expectancy has been the reduction of infant mortality.
Basically if you got past five you had good chance to live to long life.
However your chances of getting past five where pretty dire.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634340</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634178</id>
	<title>Same thing applies to anti-bacterial soap</title>
	<author>Numbah One</author>
	<datestamp>1262512980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Regular soap works just fine to get hands clean and get rid of most of the germs without speeding along the survival of the fittest contest among the bacteria.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Regular soap works just fine to get hands clean and get rid of most of the germs without speeding along the survival of the fittest contest among the bacteria .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Regular soap works just fine to get hands clean and get rid of most of the germs without speeding along the survival of the fittest contest among the bacteria.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634938</id>
	<title>Re:Stop with the drugs already</title>
	<author>oldhack</author>
	<datestamp>1262518500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Vaccination is effective, in public health sense, only when enough people are vaccinated to eradicate the infection - it's a stat game.  Vaccination scheme where not enough people gets vaccinated may be worse than no vaccination at all, encouraging the growth of resistant varieties rather than eradicating infection.
</p><p>
Kinda opposite of antibiotic over-prescription problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Vaccination is effective , in public health sense , only when enough people are vaccinated to eradicate the infection - it 's a stat game .
Vaccination scheme where not enough people gets vaccinated may be worse than no vaccination at all , encouraging the growth of resistant varieties rather than eradicating infection .
Kinda opposite of antibiotic over-prescription problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Vaccination is effective, in public health sense, only when enough people are vaccinated to eradicate the infection - it's a stat game.
Vaccination scheme where not enough people gets vaccinated may be worse than no vaccination at all, encouraging the growth of resistant varieties rather than eradicating infection.
Kinda opposite of antibiotic over-prescription problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30638954</id>
	<title>Uh...</title>
	<author>mollusc</author>
	<datestamp>1262604180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>My wife grew up in Malaysia and when she gets a cough she gets it for weeks </i> <p>
Has your wife had a Mantoux test recently?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My wife grew up in Malaysia and when she gets a cough she gets it for weeks Has your wife had a Mantoux test recently ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My wife grew up in Malaysia and when she gets a cough she gets it for weeks  
Has your wife had a Mantoux test recently?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634186</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30637750</id>
	<title>Re:It's not just the antibiotics that are a proble</title>
	<author>dogmatixpsych</author>
	<datestamp>1262543160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's why you come to us psychologists.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;) No drug-prescribing here.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's why you come to us psychologists .
; ) No drug-prescribing here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's why you come to us psychologists.
;) No drug-prescribing here.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634968</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634674</id>
	<title>Re:Article is confusing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262516700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It means that on the odd occasion when someone does get a staph infection, the infection won't be resistant, and can be treated with more standard antibiotics, or in isolated resistant cases with modern super-antibiotics, without worrying that ongoing prescription of those antibiotics for other infections will have made the staph resistant to them.</p><p>That's not propaganda.  It's saving your best weapons for when they're the *only* thing that will work, so that they don't become ineffective.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It means that on the odd occasion when someone does get a staph infection , the infection wo n't be resistant , and can be treated with more standard antibiotics , or in isolated resistant cases with modern super-antibiotics , without worrying that ongoing prescription of those antibiotics for other infections will have made the staph resistant to them.That 's not propaganda .
It 's saving your best weapons for when they 're the * only * thing that will work , so that they do n't become ineffective .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It means that on the odd occasion when someone does get a staph infection, the infection won't be resistant, and can be treated with more standard antibiotics, or in isolated resistant cases with modern super-antibiotics, without worrying that ongoing prescription of those antibiotics for other infections will have made the staph resistant to them.That's not propaganda.
It's saving your best weapons for when they're the *only* thing that will work, so that they don't become ineffective.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634330</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634660</id>
	<title>You've got it wrong in many ways</title>
	<author>BoxedFlame</author>
	<datestamp>1262516580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The things that have cut down deaths by diseases since the middle ages are, in order of effectiveness:<br>1. clean drinking water<br>2. the water closet<br>3. hygiene in the form of washing with soap primarily<br>4. antibiotics<br>5. everything else</p><p>Antibiotics are the \_last\_ defense, not the first. I have never taken antibiotics in my entire life and that's not at all rare for men in their 30s here in Sweden. In fact, almost all of the antibiotics I know my friends and family have been prescribed have been for post-op or urinary tract infection which still calls for antibiotics it seems (women seem buggy in this respect<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P ). It is also illegal to use low level doses of antibiotics when raising cattle, chicken, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The things that have cut down deaths by diseases since the middle ages are , in order of effectiveness : 1. clean drinking water2 .
the water closet3 .
hygiene in the form of washing with soap primarily4 .
antibiotics5. everything elseAntibiotics are the \ _last \ _ defense , not the first .
I have never taken antibiotics in my entire life and that 's not at all rare for men in their 30s here in Sweden .
In fact , almost all of the antibiotics I know my friends and family have been prescribed have been for post-op or urinary tract infection which still calls for antibiotics it seems ( women seem buggy in this respect : P ) .
It is also illegal to use low level doses of antibiotics when raising cattle , chicken , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The things that have cut down deaths by diseases since the middle ages are, in order of effectiveness:1. clean drinking water2.
the water closet3.
hygiene in the form of washing with soap primarily4.
antibiotics5. everything elseAntibiotics are the \_last\_ defense, not the first.
I have never taken antibiotics in my entire life and that's not at all rare for men in their 30s here in Sweden.
In fact, almost all of the antibiotics I know my friends and family have been prescribed have been for post-op or urinary tract infection which still calls for antibiotics it seems (women seem buggy in this respect :P ).
It is also illegal to use low level doses of antibiotics when raising cattle, chicken, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634340</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30650208</id>
	<title>Re:It's not just the antibiotics that are a proble</title>
	<author>Lord\_Jeremy</author>
	<datestamp>1262618700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm replying to my own comment because I sort of feel bad. Some of the other replies have made a good point that not everyone will have as bad an experience as I have. When I was in the hospital, I met a lot of other people that had been through similar things. In many cases, they started out with a small problem but their condition was exacerbated by doctors' recommendations. I remember specifically one woman who had an anxiety disorder like me, but became extremely depressed and started cutting herself after her doctor put her on something. Since then she had been on perhaps a dozen different meds and sported scars up her arms and legs. I relate this story just to give my OP some additional perspective. Of course I realize that many people, maybe even most people lead better, happier lives because of assistance they've received from mental health professionals. Even so, please don't forget that there are at least some cases where more harm has been done than good.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm replying to my own comment because I sort of feel bad .
Some of the other replies have made a good point that not everyone will have as bad an experience as I have .
When I was in the hospital , I met a lot of other people that had been through similar things .
In many cases , they started out with a small problem but their condition was exacerbated by doctors ' recommendations .
I remember specifically one woman who had an anxiety disorder like me , but became extremely depressed and started cutting herself after her doctor put her on something .
Since then she had been on perhaps a dozen different meds and sported scars up her arms and legs .
I relate this story just to give my OP some additional perspective .
Of course I realize that many people , maybe even most people lead better , happier lives because of assistance they 've received from mental health professionals .
Even so , please do n't forget that there are at least some cases where more harm has been done than good .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm replying to my own comment because I sort of feel bad.
Some of the other replies have made a good point that not everyone will have as bad an experience as I have.
When I was in the hospital, I met a lot of other people that had been through similar things.
In many cases, they started out with a small problem but their condition was exacerbated by doctors' recommendations.
I remember specifically one woman who had an anxiety disorder like me, but became extremely depressed and started cutting herself after her doctor put her on something.
Since then she had been on perhaps a dozen different meds and sported scars up her arms and legs.
I relate this story just to give my OP some additional perspective.
Of course I realize that many people, maybe even most people lead better, happier lives because of assistance they've received from mental health professionals.
Even so, please don't forget that there are at least some cases where more harm has been done than good.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634968</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634250</id>
	<title>Re:How did they do this?</title>
	<author>thoughtfulbloke</author>
	<datestamp>1262513400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Despite low antibiotic use, the U.K. is let down by hospitals not suited to the isolation part of the solution- shared rooms and rapid turnover. Some figures are available
<a href="http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/PublicationsStatistics/DH\_4085951" title="dh.gov.uk" rel="nofollow">here</a> [dh.gov.uk] <br>
In New Zealand, since 2001, the use of antibiotics has been minimised, and we saw a large fall in MRSA in 2003-2004.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Despite low antibiotic use , the U.K. is let down by hospitals not suited to the isolation part of the solution- shared rooms and rapid turnover .
Some figures are available here [ dh.gov.uk ] In New Zealand , since 2001 , the use of antibiotics has been minimised , and we saw a large fall in MRSA in 2003-2004 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Despite low antibiotic use, the U.K. is let down by hospitals not suited to the isolation part of the solution- shared rooms and rapid turnover.
Some figures are available
here [dh.gov.uk] 
In New Zealand, since 2001, the use of antibiotics has been minimised, and we saw a large fall in MRSA in 2003-2004.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634112</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634208</id>
	<title>Re:Stop with the drugs already</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262513160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not just colleges.  Our HR department sent out company-wide notices at least once a week when the H1N1 scare began, telling us to get vaccinated and how to protect ourselves.  Then management wonders why our sales reps refuse to shake hands with our (tenuous) customers.<br> <br>We need to start ignoring the chicken-littles of this world.  Scratch that.  We need to start SHUNNING the chicken-littles of this world.  Maybe then they'll get the message.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not just colleges .
Our HR department sent out company-wide notices at least once a week when the H1N1 scare began , telling us to get vaccinated and how to protect ourselves .
Then management wonders why our sales reps refuse to shake hands with our ( tenuous ) customers .
We need to start ignoring the chicken-littles of this world .
Scratch that .
We need to start SHUNNING the chicken-littles of this world .
Maybe then they 'll get the message .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not just colleges.
Our HR department sent out company-wide notices at least once a week when the H1N1 scare began, telling us to get vaccinated and how to protect ourselves.
Then management wonders why our sales reps refuse to shake hands with our (tenuous) customers.
We need to start ignoring the chicken-littles of this world.
Scratch that.
We need to start SHUNNING the chicken-littles of this world.
Maybe then they'll get the message.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634096</id>
	<title>This will work until Big Pharm (tm) patents it.</title>
	<author>IronClad</author>
	<datestamp>1262512260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can see it now: Method and process for reducing MRSA infections by not using drugs.</p><p>Don't even try it without paying.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I can see it now : Method and process for reducing MRSA infections by not using drugs.Do n't even try it without paying .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can see it now: Method and process for reducing MRSA infections by not using drugs.Don't even try it without paying.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634680</id>
	<title>Deny sick patients while agribusiness uses TONS?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262516700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In every case where bacterial resistance has been traceable, it's been found to originate in agriculture.  Agribusiness uses literally TONS of the latest antibiotics to produce more beef, more chicken etc.etc. cheaper and at higher profits.</p><p>In the meantime, the corporate controlled press extolls these stories about how withholding antibiotics from sick people cures the problem.</p><p>That's B$.</p><p>At worst, antibiotics in clinics and hospitals select for the resistant organisms that are already there.  Why are they there?  Because the patients and staff bring them in after being infected at home from eating the bugs in the food they buy at the grocery store.</p><p>The problem needs to be stopped at the source.  Sick people make good targets for this kind of propaganda, but the problems will continue to grow as long as we fail to recognize the true causes.</p><p>If you don't believe me, run a google search on antibiotics and resistance and agriculture.  That'll make you sick...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In every case where bacterial resistance has been traceable , it 's been found to originate in agriculture .
Agribusiness uses literally TONS of the latest antibiotics to produce more beef , more chicken etc.etc .
cheaper and at higher profits.In the meantime , the corporate controlled press extolls these stories about how withholding antibiotics from sick people cures the problem.That 's B $ .At worst , antibiotics in clinics and hospitals select for the resistant organisms that are already there .
Why are they there ?
Because the patients and staff bring them in after being infected at home from eating the bugs in the food they buy at the grocery store.The problem needs to be stopped at the source .
Sick people make good targets for this kind of propaganda , but the problems will continue to grow as long as we fail to recognize the true causes.If you do n't believe me , run a google search on antibiotics and resistance and agriculture .
That 'll make you sick.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In every case where bacterial resistance has been traceable, it's been found to originate in agriculture.
Agribusiness uses literally TONS of the latest antibiotics to produce more beef, more chicken etc.etc.
cheaper and at higher profits.In the meantime, the corporate controlled press extolls these stories about how withholding antibiotics from sick people cures the problem.That's B$.At worst, antibiotics in clinics and hospitals select for the resistant organisms that are already there.
Why are they there?
Because the patients and staff bring them in after being infected at home from eating the bugs in the food they buy at the grocery store.The problem needs to be stopped at the source.
Sick people make good targets for this kind of propaganda, but the problems will continue to grow as long as we fail to recognize the true causes.If you don't believe me, run a google search on antibiotics and resistance and agriculture.
That'll make you sick...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30636102</id>
	<title>Re:At the other end of the spectrum</title>
	<author>jrumney</author>
	<datestamp>1262526480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Malaysia is like Japan, in that the doctors profit from dispensing drugs themselves, and tend to over-prescribe.  Go to the doctor here with the common cold, and you'll come out with a cocktail of 5 different drugs if you don't put up resistance.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Malaysia is like Japan , in that the doctors profit from dispensing drugs themselves , and tend to over-prescribe .
Go to the doctor here with the common cold , and you 'll come out with a cocktail of 5 different drugs if you do n't put up resistance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Malaysia is like Japan, in that the doctors profit from dispensing drugs themselves, and tend to over-prescribe.
Go to the doctor here with the common cold, and you'll come out with a cocktail of 5 different drugs if you don't put up resistance.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634186</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30635244</id>
	<title>Re:How did they do this?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262520480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't know of such a table, but hygiene is the main factor in preventing MRSA infections. <a href="http://www.mrsaactionuk.net/" title="mrsaactionuk.net" rel="nofollow">UK hospitals are catching onto this</a> [mrsaactionuk.net]:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Can MRSA infections be prevented?

The number of MRSA infections in hospital can be kept down if all hospital staff adhere to good hygiene measures. The most important is to wash hands before and after contact with each patient, and before doing any procedure. This simple measure reduces the chance of passing on bacteria from patient to patient.

Other measures are used in hospitals to reduce the spread of infection. For example, cleaning of bedding, regular cleaning of wards, etc. Patients with an MRSA infection may be kept away from other patients, perhaps in a single bedroom or in an isolation unit until the infection has cleared.</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know of such a table , but hygiene is the main factor in preventing MRSA infections .
UK hospitals are catching onto this [ mrsaactionuk.net ] : Can MRSA infections be prevented ?
The number of MRSA infections in hospital can be kept down if all hospital staff adhere to good hygiene measures .
The most important is to wash hands before and after contact with each patient , and before doing any procedure .
This simple measure reduces the chance of passing on bacteria from patient to patient .
Other measures are used in hospitals to reduce the spread of infection .
For example , cleaning of bedding , regular cleaning of wards , etc .
Patients with an MRSA infection may be kept away from other patients , perhaps in a single bedroom or in an isolation unit until the infection has cleared .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know of such a table, but hygiene is the main factor in preventing MRSA infections.
UK hospitals are catching onto this [mrsaactionuk.net]:Can MRSA infections be prevented?
The number of MRSA infections in hospital can be kept down if all hospital staff adhere to good hygiene measures.
The most important is to wash hands before and after contact with each patient, and before doing any procedure.
This simple measure reduces the chance of passing on bacteria from patient to patient.
Other measures are used in hospitals to reduce the spread of infection.
For example, cleaning of bedding, regular cleaning of wards, etc.
Patients with an MRSA infection may be kept away from other patients, perhaps in a single bedroom or in an isolation unit until the infection has cleared.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634112</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634930</id>
	<title>Re:Article is confusing</title>
	<author>geirnord</author>
	<datestamp>1262518440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think the important part is 1.</p><p>When an MRSA infection occurs all staff and visitors that have come into contact with the patient is screened for MRSA. This is again DNA-sequenced to discovery the specific strain. This allows us to control the spread and and also find the originating vector for the infection.</p><p>I feel that other countries just prescribe large amounts of antibiotic to stop the singular detected infection, rather that treat the source of the problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think the important part is 1.When an MRSA infection occurs all staff and visitors that have come into contact with the patient is screened for MRSA .
This is again DNA-sequenced to discovery the specific strain .
This allows us to control the spread and and also find the originating vector for the infection.I feel that other countries just prescribe large amounts of antibiotic to stop the singular detected infection , rather that treat the source of the problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think the important part is 1.When an MRSA infection occurs all staff and visitors that have come into contact with the patient is screened for MRSA.
This is again DNA-sequenced to discovery the specific strain.
This allows us to control the spread and and also find the originating vector for the infection.I feel that other countries just prescribe large amounts of antibiotic to stop the singular detected infection, rather that treat the source of the problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634330</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30635186</id>
	<title>ALL hospitals have MRSA</title>
	<author>PCM2</author>
	<datestamp>1262520120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hospitals do not have MRSA because "hospitals are dirty." Look at it logically. MRSA can be very difficult to treat. If cleaning hospitals would keep doctors from having to treat MRSA cases, they would clean hospitals. The fact is they <i>do</i> clean them, very thoroughly<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... but it doesn't work. MRSA has the tenacity of a cockroach. Studies have shown that even the most over-the-top, costly cleaning measures still do not get rid of 100 percent of MRSA in hospitals. It is simply a fact of life.</p><p>Here is something else you might not know: There are two types of MRSA infections. There are nosocomial infections, which are the ones you get in hospitals; and then there are the other kind, which you pick up "in the wild." Wild MRSA and hospital MRSA are two different strains of the bacteria. You might cut your hand on something at home and come down with a resistant staph infection, but it would be a <i>different infection</i> than the kind you might catch in the hospital. The stuff you get in the hospital exists <i>only</i> in hospitals. It is specifically evolved to exist in those environments. And -- at least in the U.S., I can't speak for elsewhere -- it exists in <i>every</i> hospital. It's very likely that this development was inevitable.</p><p>I get tired of hearing people who have never studied the problem saying things like "if only everybody would wash their hands, nobody would get sick" or "if only nobody would take antibiotics, nobody would get sick." Things like that sound nice -- and it's true that washing your hands is a good idea, and it's true that antibiotics are often prescribed when they are not necessary -- but but to talk this way is to grossly oversimplify the problem.</p><p>Antibiotics have saved countless millions of lives. Are they over-prescribed? Perhaps. But all that means is that we are <i>squandering the potential</i> of one of the great discoveries of science. It doesn't mean that taking antibiotics is somehow "bad," or that antibiotics are somehow "making us sicker," which seems to be what so many people insinuate today.</p><p>If antibiotics don't work as well as they used to because bacteria are developing resistance, we should be sad for <i>that.</i> But recognize that the battle we are fighting here is essentially Man vs. Evolution. Back in the 1950s, public health professionals actually announced that the discovery of antibiotics was going to mean the end of human disease. We can see now that this was a pretty foolish thing to say. We now realize that we need to revise how we treat many diseases, and prescribing fewer antibiotics may be one way to do that. But we will also need to <i>keep</i> revising how we treat disease, probably throughout the lifespan of humanity.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hospitals do not have MRSA because " hospitals are dirty .
" Look at it logically .
MRSA can be very difficult to treat .
If cleaning hospitals would keep doctors from having to treat MRSA cases , they would clean hospitals .
The fact is they do clean them , very thoroughly ... but it does n't work .
MRSA has the tenacity of a cockroach .
Studies have shown that even the most over-the-top , costly cleaning measures still do not get rid of 100 percent of MRSA in hospitals .
It is simply a fact of life.Here is something else you might not know : There are two types of MRSA infections .
There are nosocomial infections , which are the ones you get in hospitals ; and then there are the other kind , which you pick up " in the wild .
" Wild MRSA and hospital MRSA are two different strains of the bacteria .
You might cut your hand on something at home and come down with a resistant staph infection , but it would be a different infection than the kind you might catch in the hospital .
The stuff you get in the hospital exists only in hospitals .
It is specifically evolved to exist in those environments .
And -- at least in the U.S. , I ca n't speak for elsewhere -- it exists in every hospital .
It 's very likely that this development was inevitable.I get tired of hearing people who have never studied the problem saying things like " if only everybody would wash their hands , nobody would get sick " or " if only nobody would take antibiotics , nobody would get sick .
" Things like that sound nice -- and it 's true that washing your hands is a good idea , and it 's true that antibiotics are often prescribed when they are not necessary -- but but to talk this way is to grossly oversimplify the problem.Antibiotics have saved countless millions of lives .
Are they over-prescribed ?
Perhaps. But all that means is that we are squandering the potential of one of the great discoveries of science .
It does n't mean that taking antibiotics is somehow " bad , " or that antibiotics are somehow " making us sicker , " which seems to be what so many people insinuate today.If antibiotics do n't work as well as they used to because bacteria are developing resistance , we should be sad for that .
But recognize that the battle we are fighting here is essentially Man vs. Evolution. Back in the 1950s , public health professionals actually announced that the discovery of antibiotics was going to mean the end of human disease .
We can see now that this was a pretty foolish thing to say .
We now realize that we need to revise how we treat many diseases , and prescribing fewer antibiotics may be one way to do that .
But we will also need to keep revising how we treat disease , probably throughout the lifespan of humanity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hospitals do not have MRSA because "hospitals are dirty.
" Look at it logically.
MRSA can be very difficult to treat.
If cleaning hospitals would keep doctors from having to treat MRSA cases, they would clean hospitals.
The fact is they do clean them, very thoroughly ... but it doesn't work.
MRSA has the tenacity of a cockroach.
Studies have shown that even the most over-the-top, costly cleaning measures still do not get rid of 100 percent of MRSA in hospitals.
It is simply a fact of life.Here is something else you might not know: There are two types of MRSA infections.
There are nosocomial infections, which are the ones you get in hospitals; and then there are the other kind, which you pick up "in the wild.
" Wild MRSA and hospital MRSA are two different strains of the bacteria.
You might cut your hand on something at home and come down with a resistant staph infection, but it would be a different infection than the kind you might catch in the hospital.
The stuff you get in the hospital exists only in hospitals.
It is specifically evolved to exist in those environments.
And -- at least in the U.S., I can't speak for elsewhere -- it exists in every hospital.
It's very likely that this development was inevitable.I get tired of hearing people who have never studied the problem saying things like "if only everybody would wash their hands, nobody would get sick" or "if only nobody would take antibiotics, nobody would get sick.
" Things like that sound nice -- and it's true that washing your hands is a good idea, and it's true that antibiotics are often prescribed when they are not necessary -- but but to talk this way is to grossly oversimplify the problem.Antibiotics have saved countless millions of lives.
Are they over-prescribed?
Perhaps. But all that means is that we are squandering the potential of one of the great discoveries of science.
It doesn't mean that taking antibiotics is somehow "bad," or that antibiotics are somehow "making us sicker," which seems to be what so many people insinuate today.If antibiotics don't work as well as they used to because bacteria are developing resistance, we should be sad for that.
But recognize that the battle we are fighting here is essentially Man vs. Evolution. Back in the 1950s, public health professionals actually announced that the discovery of antibiotics was going to mean the end of human disease.
We can see now that this was a pretty foolish thing to say.
We now realize that we need to revise how we treat many diseases, and prescribing fewer antibiotics may be one way to do that.
But we will also need to keep revising how we treat disease, probably throughout the lifespan of humanity.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634112</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634466</id>
	<title>Did someone in Norway really say 'Tylenol' ?</title>
	<author>yakumo.unr</author>
	<datestamp>1262515320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Or was a quote altered to push a US (only?) brand?</div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Or was a quote altered to push a US ( only ?
) brand ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or was a quote altered to push a US (only?
) brand?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30639814</id>
	<title>Neighbors?...</title>
	<author>Richard Kirk</author>
	<datestamp>1262615040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yet another variable: Norway is a long, thin, crinkly country divided by deep fijords. There was no road from one of the country to the other until the mid sixties (I have been trying to find a reference for this, but I can't). If you live in a long, thin ribbon of a country, like the valleys in Switzerland, or Old Kingdom Egypt, you have fewer direct neighbors. Taken to extreme, you would have two nearest neighbors if you were 1D creatures, six if you lived on a close-packed plane, and twelve if you are packed in 3D. We know that some human interactions are modified by the connectivity of the territory: 'the tragedy of the commons', for example, did not happen in Swiss valleys with common high and low pastures, because if you overgrazed your commons, your two neighbors would be much more likely to notice and object. The article suggests that MRSA attacks in Norway usually came from outside, but could be contained. While I support Norway's attitude to antibiotics, I fear their solution may not work as well in a flatter country with more visitors.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yet another variable : Norway is a long , thin , crinkly country divided by deep fijords .
There was no road from one of the country to the other until the mid sixties ( I have been trying to find a reference for this , but I ca n't ) .
If you live in a long , thin ribbon of a country , like the valleys in Switzerland , or Old Kingdom Egypt , you have fewer direct neighbors .
Taken to extreme , you would have two nearest neighbors if you were 1D creatures , six if you lived on a close-packed plane , and twelve if you are packed in 3D .
We know that some human interactions are modified by the connectivity of the territory : 'the tragedy of the commons ' , for example , did not happen in Swiss valleys with common high and low pastures , because if you overgrazed your commons , your two neighbors would be much more likely to notice and object .
The article suggests that MRSA attacks in Norway usually came from outside , but could be contained .
While I support Norway 's attitude to antibiotics , I fear their solution may not work as well in a flatter country with more visitors .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yet another variable: Norway is a long, thin, crinkly country divided by deep fijords.
There was no road from one of the country to the other until the mid sixties (I have been trying to find a reference for this, but I can't).
If you live in a long, thin ribbon of a country, like the valleys in Switzerland, or Old Kingdom Egypt, you have fewer direct neighbors.
Taken to extreme, you would have two nearest neighbors if you were 1D creatures, six if you lived on a close-packed plane, and twelve if you are packed in 3D.
We know that some human interactions are modified by the connectivity of the territory: 'the tragedy of the commons', for example, did not happen in Swiss valleys with common high and low pastures, because if you overgrazed your commons, your two neighbors would be much more likely to notice and object.
The article suggests that MRSA attacks in Norway usually came from outside, but could be contained.
While I support Norway's attitude to antibiotics, I fear their solution may not work as well in a flatter country with more visitors.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30635594</id>
	<title>Re:The People Problem</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262522700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Doctors can sometimes receive incentive to sell prescrption drugs even if advertising isn't legal.</p><p>Pfizer advertises general often negligible symptoms (hiccups, burps, head ache) and tells people to visit headache.org or heartburn.org<br>where they basically state that the person will need X drug.<br>Effectively convincing the patient of self diagnosis.</p><p>Drug companies give dinners, travel or other non monetary bonuses to doctors that prescribe the most drugs.<br>Obviously a doctor is going to need to be loose with his prescription pad if he wants to earn some bonuses.</p><p>How many doctors/friends/families own shares in medical researchers, medicinal companies and drug companies?<br>another very good reason to over prescribe a particular product or brand</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Doctors can sometimes receive incentive to sell prescrption drugs even if advertising is n't legal.Pfizer advertises general often negligible symptoms ( hiccups , burps , head ache ) and tells people to visit headache.org or heartburn.orgwhere they basically state that the person will need X drug.Effectively convincing the patient of self diagnosis.Drug companies give dinners , travel or other non monetary bonuses to doctors that prescribe the most drugs.Obviously a doctor is going to need to be loose with his prescription pad if he wants to earn some bonuses.How many doctors/friends/families own shares in medical researchers , medicinal companies and drug companies ? another very good reason to over prescribe a particular product or brand</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Doctors can sometimes receive incentive to sell prescrption drugs even if advertising isn't legal.Pfizer advertises general often negligible symptoms (hiccups, burps, head ache) and tells people to visit headache.org or heartburn.orgwhere they basically state that the person will need X drug.Effectively convincing the patient of self diagnosis.Drug companies give dinners, travel or other non monetary bonuses to doctors that prescribe the most drugs.Obviously a doctor is going to need to be loose with his prescription pad if he wants to earn some bonuses.How many doctors/friends/families own shares in medical researchers, medicinal companies and drug companies?another very good reason to over prescribe a particular product or brand</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634406</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634112</id>
	<title>How did they do this?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262512380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've heard a number of international folks complain that antibiotics are almost never prescribed in the UK and yet a number of UK hospitals have had MRSA outbreaks. Does anyone have a league table of the cleanliness of each country's hospitals?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've heard a number of international folks complain that antibiotics are almost never prescribed in the UK and yet a number of UK hospitals have had MRSA outbreaks .
Does anyone have a league table of the cleanliness of each country 's hospitals ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've heard a number of international folks complain that antibiotics are almost never prescribed in the UK and yet a number of UK hospitals have had MRSA outbreaks.
Does anyone have a league table of the cleanliness of each country's hospitals?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634316</id>
	<title>Re:The People Problem</title>
	<author>teg</author>
	<datestamp>1262513940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>FWIW, in Norway it doesn't matter what the patient believe on that matter. All antibiotics are prescription only. Also, ads are not allowed for prescription drugs.</htmltext>
<tokenext>FWIW , in Norway it does n't matter what the patient believe on that matter .
All antibiotics are prescription only .
Also , ads are not allowed for prescription drugs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FWIW, in Norway it doesn't matter what the patient believe on that matter.
All antibiotics are prescription only.
Also, ads are not allowed for prescription drugs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634050</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30635422</id>
	<title>Re:This article is so RIGHT</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262521560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>No, the article expresses the writer's anti-pharma agenda. The real reason for Norway's low MRSA rate is <a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article1323962.ece" title="timesonline.co.uk" rel="nofollow">their level of cleanliness</a> [timesonline.co.uk]</htmltext>
<tokenext>No , the article expresses the writer 's anti-pharma agenda .
The real reason for Norway 's low MRSA rate is their level of cleanliness [ timesonline.co.uk ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, the article expresses the writer's anti-pharma agenda.
The real reason for Norway's low MRSA rate is their level of cleanliness [timesonline.co.uk]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634130</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634292</id>
	<title>Re:And when the arm has to come off...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262513700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The best reaction to an isolated incident that is logically distinct from the vast majority of incidents is to apply the correct solution for that incident to all cases. Hopefully those in charge also add some measures that are entirely ineffective but make the general public feel better.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The best reaction to an isolated incident that is logically distinct from the vast majority of incidents is to apply the correct solution for that incident to all cases .
Hopefully those in charge also add some measures that are entirely ineffective but make the general public feel better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The best reaction to an isolated incident that is logically distinct from the vast majority of incidents is to apply the correct solution for that incident to all cases.
Hopefully those in charge also add some measures that are entirely ineffective but make the general public feel better.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30637194</id>
	<title>Re:This will work until Big Pharm (tm) patents it.</title>
	<author>evilviper</author>
	<datestamp>1262536620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't expect pharmaceutical companies will care all that much, since most antibiotics are generics these days.  I doubt the market for powerful antibiotics to compete with MSRA is enough for them to bring their resources to bat.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't expect pharmaceutical companies will care all that much , since most antibiotics are generics these days .
I doubt the market for powerful antibiotics to compete with MSRA is enough for them to bring their resources to bat .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't expect pharmaceutical companies will care all that much, since most antibiotics are generics these days.
I doubt the market for powerful antibiotics to compete with MSRA is enough for them to bring their resources to bat.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634236</id>
	<title>Re:And when the arm has to come off...</title>
	<author>ColdWetDog</author>
	<datestamp>1262513340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually dog bites are usually NOT infected and one usually does not give antibiotics for them.  Of course, no strategy is perfect and antibiotics do clearly work when indicated.  It wasn't all that long ago when people routinely died from pneumonia, something we often don't hospitalize patients for.<br> <br>
It could well be that the persons treating your friend should have prescribed antibiotics in the first place, or maybe they should have been more aggressive with local wound care, flushing out the area with sterile saline. Or your friend had a wonky immune system for one reason or another.  Lots of potential factors in any given patient encounter.<br> <br>
So careful with the anecdotal stuff, it might come back to bite you.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually dog bites are usually NOT infected and one usually does not give antibiotics for them .
Of course , no strategy is perfect and antibiotics do clearly work when indicated .
It was n't all that long ago when people routinely died from pneumonia , something we often do n't hospitalize patients for .
It could well be that the persons treating your friend should have prescribed antibiotics in the first place , or maybe they should have been more aggressive with local wound care , flushing out the area with sterile saline .
Or your friend had a wonky immune system for one reason or another .
Lots of potential factors in any given patient encounter .
So careful with the anecdotal stuff , it might come back to bite you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually dog bites are usually NOT infected and one usually does not give antibiotics for them.
Of course, no strategy is perfect and antibiotics do clearly work when indicated.
It wasn't all that long ago when people routinely died from pneumonia, something we often don't hospitalize patients for.
It could well be that the persons treating your friend should have prescribed antibiotics in the first place, or maybe they should have been more aggressive with local wound care, flushing out the area with sterile saline.
Or your friend had a wonky immune system for one reason or another.
Lots of potential factors in any given patient encounter.
So careful with the anecdotal stuff, it might come back to bite you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30635364</id>
	<title>Re:Stop with the drugs already</title>
	<author>Mr. Freeman</author>
	<datestamp>1262521140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Vaccinations and antibiotics are NOT the same thing and work completely differently.  I'm willing to bet that the people that wrote "bullshit" on the fliers probably changed their tune when they got infected.  Not to mention that not a single one of them has and medical training whatsoever.  There's so much nonsense "medical information" being spread by people that haven't even opened a medical textbook in their entire life.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Vaccinations and antibiotics are NOT the same thing and work completely differently .
I 'm willing to bet that the people that wrote " bullshit " on the fliers probably changed their tune when they got infected .
Not to mention that not a single one of them has and medical training whatsoever .
There 's so much nonsense " medical information " being spread by people that have n't even opened a medical textbook in their entire life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Vaccinations and antibiotics are NOT the same thing and work completely differently.
I'm willing to bet that the people that wrote "bullshit" on the fliers probably changed their tune when they got infected.
Not to mention that not a single one of them has and medical training whatsoever.
There's so much nonsense "medical information" being spread by people that haven't even opened a medical textbook in their entire life.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30637880</id>
	<title>Re:It's not just the antibiotics that are a proble</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262545380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"I suppose I'm on the business end of the whole mental health thing, so I'm bound to be biased. Even so, you do not want to get involved in this stuff. I have yet to hear of anyone that has actually been helped, or even not hurt by psychiatrists."</p><p>My child was helped immensely with their problems by a psychiatrist.  We employed both drug and non-drug strategies, and it made a big difference.  As my child matured, they also learned strategies to deal with the condition themselves.  Much of the effort was simply a matter of understanding the nature of the illness, trying to avoid the usual triggers, recognizing the development of an acute episode, and then acting appropriately to deal with it.  Most importantly, before accepting the drug aspect we tried double-blind tests, and revisited the issue with a new double-blind test each year.  On principle, we did not want to use drugs, and there were some mild side-effects from them.  However, each time we did the double-blind test it definitely made a net positive difference, both from our perception, my child's perception, and those of third parties that were not informed that a test was in progress.  It was obvious when they were on the drug versus on the placebo when we compared observations.  It simply worked.  It was a choice between using it or letting our child suffer through the illness, which might lead to other psychological/social problems because of the way the illness affected their interaction with other people.  We were already faced with significant issues when we sought help.</p><p>It's been close to a decade now and it has worked out fine.  Do I worry about the possibility of long-term side effects from taking a drug for so long?  Heck, yeah.  But I have to weigh that against the very likely development of some other serious problems if we didn't, and my child will soon be old enough to make the decision about the drug entirely on their own.  Given that they've been involved in the decisions all along, to the extent their age allowed, I doubt they will change their mind about it, but they will be free to do so.</p><p>I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience, but, no, it doesn't always turn out that way.  I suspect that it depends greatly on the individual psychiatrist and the individual case.  Your advice to generally avoid medications is wise, and I share the sentiment, but sometimes drugs are necessary and genuinely effective (see above -- there was also an occasion when my cold developed into pneumonia, and antibiotics were necessary then too).  The hard part is figuring out when they truly are necessary and are doing some good, or the opposite.  When you are dealing with a crisis you don't always have the luxury of a double-blind test, and if your body is changing over time or you have bad side-effects, it might not be possible to do such a test properly.  Mental health is one of those areas that is exceedingly difficult for medicine to deal with because the problem is so incredibly complex.  It's not surprising that the results are mixed, especially when compared to other areas of medicine.  This is not a reason to reject the utility of drugs entirely.  It's a reason to be cautious about them.  Ditto for any medical advice.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" I suppose I 'm on the business end of the whole mental health thing , so I 'm bound to be biased .
Even so , you do not want to get involved in this stuff .
I have yet to hear of anyone that has actually been helped , or even not hurt by psychiatrists .
" My child was helped immensely with their problems by a psychiatrist .
We employed both drug and non-drug strategies , and it made a big difference .
As my child matured , they also learned strategies to deal with the condition themselves .
Much of the effort was simply a matter of understanding the nature of the illness , trying to avoid the usual triggers , recognizing the development of an acute episode , and then acting appropriately to deal with it .
Most importantly , before accepting the drug aspect we tried double-blind tests , and revisited the issue with a new double-blind test each year .
On principle , we did not want to use drugs , and there were some mild side-effects from them .
However , each time we did the double-blind test it definitely made a net positive difference , both from our perception , my child 's perception , and those of third parties that were not informed that a test was in progress .
It was obvious when they were on the drug versus on the placebo when we compared observations .
It simply worked .
It was a choice between using it or letting our child suffer through the illness , which might lead to other psychological/social problems because of the way the illness affected their interaction with other people .
We were already faced with significant issues when we sought help.It 's been close to a decade now and it has worked out fine .
Do I worry about the possibility of long-term side effects from taking a drug for so long ?
Heck , yeah .
But I have to weigh that against the very likely development of some other serious problems if we did n't , and my child will soon be old enough to make the decision about the drug entirely on their own .
Given that they 've been involved in the decisions all along , to the extent their age allowed , I doubt they will change their mind about it , but they will be free to do so.I 'm sorry to hear about your bad experience , but , no , it does n't always turn out that way .
I suspect that it depends greatly on the individual psychiatrist and the individual case .
Your advice to generally avoid medications is wise , and I share the sentiment , but sometimes drugs are necessary and genuinely effective ( see above -- there was also an occasion when my cold developed into pneumonia , and antibiotics were necessary then too ) .
The hard part is figuring out when they truly are necessary and are doing some good , or the opposite .
When you are dealing with a crisis you do n't always have the luxury of a double-blind test , and if your body is changing over time or you have bad side-effects , it might not be possible to do such a test properly .
Mental health is one of those areas that is exceedingly difficult for medicine to deal with because the problem is so incredibly complex .
It 's not surprising that the results are mixed , especially when compared to other areas of medicine .
This is not a reason to reject the utility of drugs entirely .
It 's a reason to be cautious about them .
Ditto for any medical advice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"I suppose I'm on the business end of the whole mental health thing, so I'm bound to be biased.
Even so, you do not want to get involved in this stuff.
I have yet to hear of anyone that has actually been helped, or even not hurt by psychiatrists.
"My child was helped immensely with their problems by a psychiatrist.
We employed both drug and non-drug strategies, and it made a big difference.
As my child matured, they also learned strategies to deal with the condition themselves.
Much of the effort was simply a matter of understanding the nature of the illness, trying to avoid the usual triggers, recognizing the development of an acute episode, and then acting appropriately to deal with it.
Most importantly, before accepting the drug aspect we tried double-blind tests, and revisited the issue with a new double-blind test each year.
On principle, we did not want to use drugs, and there were some mild side-effects from them.
However, each time we did the double-blind test it definitely made a net positive difference, both from our perception, my child's perception, and those of third parties that were not informed that a test was in progress.
It was obvious when they were on the drug versus on the placebo when we compared observations.
It simply worked.
It was a choice between using it or letting our child suffer through the illness, which might lead to other psychological/social problems because of the way the illness affected their interaction with other people.
We were already faced with significant issues when we sought help.It's been close to a decade now and it has worked out fine.
Do I worry about the possibility of long-term side effects from taking a drug for so long?
Heck, yeah.
But I have to weigh that against the very likely development of some other serious problems if we didn't, and my child will soon be old enough to make the decision about the drug entirely on their own.
Given that they've been involved in the decisions all along, to the extent their age allowed, I doubt they will change their mind about it, but they will be free to do so.I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience, but, no, it doesn't always turn out that way.
I suspect that it depends greatly on the individual psychiatrist and the individual case.
Your advice to generally avoid medications is wise, and I share the sentiment, but sometimes drugs are necessary and genuinely effective (see above -- there was also an occasion when my cold developed into pneumonia, and antibiotics were necessary then too).
The hard part is figuring out when they truly are necessary and are doing some good, or the opposite.
When you are dealing with a crisis you don't always have the luxury of a double-blind test, and if your body is changing over time or you have bad side-effects, it might not be possible to do such a test properly.
Mental health is one of those areas that is exceedingly difficult for medicine to deal with because the problem is so incredibly complex.
It's not surprising that the results are mixed, especially when compared to other areas of medicine.
This is not a reason to reject the utility of drugs entirely.
It's a reason to be cautious about them.
Ditto for any medical advice.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634968</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30635058</id>
	<title>rx abx if it's friday</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262519340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm a primary care physician in the US. There are a number of logistical issues in the decision whether to prescribe antibiotics. They revolve around the ease of followup. It would be nice to always be able to say "You'll probably be fine. If you get sicker, come back."

But if it's a Thursday or Friday, or if the patient lives an hour's drive from the clinic, or if I'm about to go on vacation, or if my schedule is overbooked for the next few days, I'm much more likely to prescribe an antibiotic.

We need better access to care. Among the things that would help that would be (1) single payer insurance, so people could get care anywhere, and (2) better compensation for primary care providers (PCPs) which would result in (a) more of them, relative to specialists and (b) less need for existing PCP to overbook their schedules to make ends meet.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm a primary care physician in the US .
There are a number of logistical issues in the decision whether to prescribe antibiotics .
They revolve around the ease of followup .
It would be nice to always be able to say " You 'll probably be fine .
If you get sicker , come back .
" But if it 's a Thursday or Friday , or if the patient lives an hour 's drive from the clinic , or if I 'm about to go on vacation , or if my schedule is overbooked for the next few days , I 'm much more likely to prescribe an antibiotic .
We need better access to care .
Among the things that would help that would be ( 1 ) single payer insurance , so people could get care anywhere , and ( 2 ) better compensation for primary care providers ( PCPs ) which would result in ( a ) more of them , relative to specialists and ( b ) less need for existing PCP to overbook their schedules to make ends meet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm a primary care physician in the US.
There are a number of logistical issues in the decision whether to prescribe antibiotics.
They revolve around the ease of followup.
It would be nice to always be able to say "You'll probably be fine.
If you get sicker, come back.
"

But if it's a Thursday or Friday, or if the patient lives an hour's drive from the clinic, or if I'm about to go on vacation, or if my schedule is overbooked for the next few days, I'm much more likely to prescribe an antibiotic.
We need better access to care.
Among the things that would help that would be (1) single payer insurance, so people could get care anywhere, and (2) better compensation for primary care providers (PCPs) which would result in (a) more of them, relative to specialists and (b) less need for existing PCP to overbook their schedules to make ends meet.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634232</id>
	<title>Re:And when the arm has to come off...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262513280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Nice straw man, dumb fuck. They're talking about not prescribing antibiotics when somebody has a cough or some lame shit most Americans are terrified of because they are huge pussies that live in a culture of fear.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Nice straw man , dumb fuck .
They 're talking about not prescribing antibiotics when somebody has a cough or some lame shit most Americans are terrified of because they are huge pussies that live in a culture of fear .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nice straw man, dumb fuck.
They're talking about not prescribing antibiotics when somebody has a cough or some lame shit most Americans are terrified of because they are huge pussies that live in a culture of fear.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634054</id>
	<title>And the USA's new system</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262512080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you get sick, the government isn't going to want to waste money it could better use on helping Meicans safely cross the border illegally, so they'll just euthenize you. Thus, we'll have lower rates than any other country, once we replace our disease ridden population with those hardy mexicans.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you get sick , the government is n't going to want to waste money it could better use on helping Meicans safely cross the border illegally , so they 'll just euthenize you .
Thus , we 'll have lower rates than any other country , once we replace our disease ridden population with those hardy mexicans .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you get sick, the government isn't going to want to waste money it could better use on helping Meicans safely cross the border illegally, so they'll just euthenize you.
Thus, we'll have lower rates than any other country, once we replace our disease ridden population with those hardy mexicans.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634518</id>
	<title>Re:The People Problem</title>
	<author>dgatwood</author>
	<datestamp>1262515740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>While the doctors writing out scrips for antibiotics does play a role, one of the major factors should be patient education.</p></div></blockquote><p>Doctors prescribing antibiotics for individuals at home has likely had little impact on things like MRSA or C. diff.  Those superbugs are almost nonexistent outside of hospital and nursing home environments.  What this tells us is that antibiotics are overprescribed for people in hospitals and nursing homes.  Why is this?  Usually because people are much more likely to get a bacterial infection in those environments in the first place, people are in worse health and are thus unable to fight those infections off on their own, and thus more people legitimately <b>need</b> antibiotics in those environments.</p><p>The only way to truly prevent resistant strains of antibiotics is to get people out of hospitals and nursing homes and back into individual homes where they are not at such a high risk of infection.  In general, the absolute worst thing you can do for your health is go into the hospital.  Between the constant lights and noises, nurses coming in every two hours when you should be sleeping to check your vitals (which are the same as they were the last time the b*****ds woke you up), the shared air handling with seriously sick people, the awful food that you don't want to eat, etc., it's a wonder anybody ever escapes hospitals alive....<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-D</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>While the doctors writing out scrips for antibiotics does play a role , one of the major factors should be patient education.Doctors prescribing antibiotics for individuals at home has likely had little impact on things like MRSA or C. diff. Those superbugs are almost nonexistent outside of hospital and nursing home environments .
What this tells us is that antibiotics are overprescribed for people in hospitals and nursing homes .
Why is this ?
Usually because people are much more likely to get a bacterial infection in those environments in the first place , people are in worse health and are thus unable to fight those infections off on their own , and thus more people legitimately need antibiotics in those environments.The only way to truly prevent resistant strains of antibiotics is to get people out of hospitals and nursing homes and back into individual homes where they are not at such a high risk of infection .
In general , the absolute worst thing you can do for your health is go into the hospital .
Between the constant lights and noises , nurses coming in every two hours when you should be sleeping to check your vitals ( which are the same as they were the last time the b * * * * * ds woke you up ) , the shared air handling with seriously sick people , the awful food that you do n't want to eat , etc. , it 's a wonder anybody ever escapes hospitals alive.... : -D</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While the doctors writing out scrips for antibiotics does play a role, one of the major factors should be patient education.Doctors prescribing antibiotics for individuals at home has likely had little impact on things like MRSA or C. diff.  Those superbugs are almost nonexistent outside of hospital and nursing home environments.
What this tells us is that antibiotics are overprescribed for people in hospitals and nursing homes.
Why is this?
Usually because people are much more likely to get a bacterial infection in those environments in the first place, people are in worse health and are thus unable to fight those infections off on their own, and thus more people legitimately need antibiotics in those environments.The only way to truly prevent resistant strains of antibiotics is to get people out of hospitals and nursing homes and back into individual homes where they are not at such a high risk of infection.
In general, the absolute worst thing you can do for your health is go into the hospital.
Between the constant lights and noises, nurses coming in every two hours when you should be sleeping to check your vitals (which are the same as they were the last time the b*****ds woke you up), the shared air handling with seriously sick people, the awful food that you don't want to eat, etc., it's a wonder anybody ever escapes hospitals alive.... :-D
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634050</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634608</id>
	<title>Re:The People Problem</title>
	<author>puck01</author>
	<datestamp>1262516340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Agreed.  Patient education would go a long way.   Too many parents and adult patients believe they need an antibiotic for every sinus infection, cold, ear infection or episode of 'bronchitis' they have when in most of these cases an antibiotic is actually not needed.   Unfortunately, many docs also have been led to believe some of these problems need an antibiotic, too</p><p>I'm not sure what financial incentives physicians have to prescribe abx.   God knows I have have never been given any of these financial 'incentives'.   The only incentive I have is to prescribe it when I feel it is warranted or because the patient is being a such a pain in my ass and I just need them to leave.   The latter rarely happens.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed .
Patient education would go a long way .
Too many parents and adult patients believe they need an antibiotic for every sinus infection , cold , ear infection or episode of 'bronchitis ' they have when in most of these cases an antibiotic is actually not needed .
Unfortunately , many docs also have been led to believe some of these problems need an antibiotic , tooI 'm not sure what financial incentives physicians have to prescribe abx .
God knows I have have never been given any of these financial 'incentives' .
The only incentive I have is to prescribe it when I feel it is warranted or because the patient is being a such a pain in my ass and I just need them to leave .
The latter rarely happens .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed.
Patient education would go a long way.
Too many parents and adult patients believe they need an antibiotic for every sinus infection, cold, ear infection or episode of 'bronchitis' they have when in most of these cases an antibiotic is actually not needed.
Unfortunately, many docs also have been led to believe some of these problems need an antibiotic, tooI'm not sure what financial incentives physicians have to prescribe abx.
God knows I have have never been given any of these financial 'incentives'.
The only incentive I have is to prescribe it when I feel it is warranted or because the patient is being a such a pain in my ass and I just need them to leave.
The latter rarely happens.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634050</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634504</id>
	<title>US hospitals are already on this</title>
	<author>tomhath</author>
	<datestamp>1262515680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>TFA misrepresents the real reason for the low MRSA rates in Norway. Antibiotic use plays a part, but <a href="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi\_m0NUZ/is\_12\_12/ai\_n15932704/" title="findarticles.com">old fashioned hygiene and quarantining infected patients</a> [findarticles.com] is by far the most important factor. Hospitals all over the US are already on this, it has nothing to do with whether or not health care is "free".</htmltext>
<tokenext>TFA misrepresents the real reason for the low MRSA rates in Norway .
Antibiotic use plays a part , but old fashioned hygiene and quarantining infected patients [ findarticles.com ] is by far the most important factor .
Hospitals all over the US are already on this , it has nothing to do with whether or not health care is " free " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>TFA misrepresents the real reason for the low MRSA rates in Norway.
Antibiotic use plays a part, but old fashioned hygiene and quarantining infected patients [findarticles.com] is by far the most important factor.
Hospitals all over the US are already on this, it has nothing to do with whether or not health care is "free".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30643454</id>
	<title>Silver Collodial</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262631720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>STAPH doesn't stand a chance against it and it won't fuck up your bacterial flora in your gut like anti-biotics will (thus further weakening your immune system).</htmltext>
<tokenext>STAPH does n't stand a chance against it and it wo n't fuck up your bacterial flora in your gut like anti-biotics will ( thus further weakening your immune system ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>STAPH doesn't stand a chance against it and it won't fuck up your bacterial flora in your gut like anti-biotics will (thus further weakening your immune system).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30636948</id>
	<title>Re:It's not just the antibiotics that are a proble</title>
	<author>scottv67</author>
	<datestamp>1262534040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>&gt; <i>I suppose I'm on the business end of the whole mental health thing, so I'm bound to be biased. Even so, you do not want to get involved in this stuff. I have yet to hear of anyone that has actually been helped, or even not hurt by psychiatrists.<br> <br> </i>
I have been helped a great deal both by psychiatrists as well as by medications like anti-depressants.  The psychiatrist that helped me through some very rough times in my life has kept me from falling apart.  He has also provided some valuable insight that I would have not otherwise had.  I have recommended this guy to other people who were in a bad spot and he has helped them as well.<br> <br>
You do a great disservice to people who may be suffering from depression, anxiety or other disorders by telling them that "well, i've never heard of no one who got halped!"  Speaking from personal experience, it's hard enough to admit that things have spiraled out of control and that you need help.  It takes a lot of balls to make that first phone call and make an appointment.  Your statement just made things that much harder for someone who is working-up the nerve to make that call.<br> <br>
If you worked with a mental health professional and you did not get the results you were seeking, FIRE HIS/HER ASS.  There is no law that says you have to stick with the first doctor you talk to.  I have worked with many docs on the medications. It took me quite a few tries to find a guy that I like working with who is also very, very smart when it comes to the drugs.  Don't feel the least bit of guilt about saying to your doc, "Sorry, you aren't cutting it for me.  I won't be coming back to see you."  You are the consumer.  You are the person paying for the "service".  If you don't like the service you are getting, take your money somewhere else.<br> <br>
In addition to my own personal success with both medications as well as "talk therapy", I know quite a few friends who have been helped by mental health professionals.   Getting professional help is far better than the solutions available in the past: drink yourself numb, beat your family or chew on the barrel of a firearm.</htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; I suppose I 'm on the business end of the whole mental health thing , so I 'm bound to be biased .
Even so , you do not want to get involved in this stuff .
I have yet to hear of anyone that has actually been helped , or even not hurt by psychiatrists .
I have been helped a great deal both by psychiatrists as well as by medications like anti-depressants .
The psychiatrist that helped me through some very rough times in my life has kept me from falling apart .
He has also provided some valuable insight that I would have not otherwise had .
I have recommended this guy to other people who were in a bad spot and he has helped them as well .
You do a great disservice to people who may be suffering from depression , anxiety or other disorders by telling them that " well , i 've never heard of no one who got halped !
" Speaking from personal experience , it 's hard enough to admit that things have spiraled out of control and that you need help .
It takes a lot of balls to make that first phone call and make an appointment .
Your statement just made things that much harder for someone who is working-up the nerve to make that call .
If you worked with a mental health professional and you did not get the results you were seeking , FIRE HIS/HER ASS .
There is no law that says you have to stick with the first doctor you talk to .
I have worked with many docs on the medications .
It took me quite a few tries to find a guy that I like working with who is also very , very smart when it comes to the drugs .
Do n't feel the least bit of guilt about saying to your doc , " Sorry , you are n't cutting it for me .
I wo n't be coming back to see you .
" You are the consumer .
You are the person paying for the " service " .
If you do n't like the service you are getting , take your money somewhere else .
In addition to my own personal success with both medications as well as " talk therapy " , I know quite a few friends who have been helped by mental health professionals .
Getting professional help is far better than the solutions available in the past : drink yourself numb , beat your family or chew on the barrel of a firearm .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; I suppose I'm on the business end of the whole mental health thing, so I'm bound to be biased.
Even so, you do not want to get involved in this stuff.
I have yet to hear of anyone that has actually been helped, or even not hurt by psychiatrists.
I have been helped a great deal both by psychiatrists as well as by medications like anti-depressants.
The psychiatrist that helped me through some very rough times in my life has kept me from falling apart.
He has also provided some valuable insight that I would have not otherwise had.
I have recommended this guy to other people who were in a bad spot and he has helped them as well.
You do a great disservice to people who may be suffering from depression, anxiety or other disorders by telling them that "well, i've never heard of no one who got halped!
"  Speaking from personal experience, it's hard enough to admit that things have spiraled out of control and that you need help.
It takes a lot of balls to make that first phone call and make an appointment.
Your statement just made things that much harder for someone who is working-up the nerve to make that call.
If you worked with a mental health professional and you did not get the results you were seeking, FIRE HIS/HER ASS.
There is no law that says you have to stick with the first doctor you talk to.
I have worked with many docs on the medications.
It took me quite a few tries to find a guy that I like working with who is also very, very smart when it comes to the drugs.
Don't feel the least bit of guilt about saying to your doc, "Sorry, you aren't cutting it for me.
I won't be coming back to see you.
"  You are the consumer.
You are the person paying for the "service".
If you don't like the service you are getting, take your money somewhere else.
In addition to my own personal success with both medications as well as "talk therapy", I know quite a few friends who have been helped by mental health professionals.
Getting professional help is far better than the solutions available in the past: drink yourself numb, beat your family or chew on the barrel of a firearm.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634968</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30643350</id>
	<title>advertising...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262631180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've felt that the drug companies have been the problem with healthcare for quite some time.  If they spent half as much on advertising and bribing doctors, we just might have CURES for REAL diseases like cancer.  Instead they are happy dispensing medications that really only minimize a set of symptoms or worse yet serve to strengthen the diseases in patients that do not have the knowledge or discipline to accurately administer their medication.  The FDA used to keep companies from mentioning the name of their medication in their advertisements, the problem then became that they just made ads describing diseases and scared everyone into seeing their doctor.  The first thing that needs to happen (BEFORE HEALTH CARE REFORM) is someone should make these companies stop bribing the doctors and doctors and drug companies should be held more accountable for the consequences of medications.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've felt that the drug companies have been the problem with healthcare for quite some time .
If they spent half as much on advertising and bribing doctors , we just might have CURES for REAL diseases like cancer .
Instead they are happy dispensing medications that really only minimize a set of symptoms or worse yet serve to strengthen the diseases in patients that do not have the knowledge or discipline to accurately administer their medication .
The FDA used to keep companies from mentioning the name of their medication in their advertisements , the problem then became that they just made ads describing diseases and scared everyone into seeing their doctor .
The first thing that needs to happen ( BEFORE HEALTH CARE REFORM ) is someone should make these companies stop bribing the doctors and doctors and drug companies should be held more accountable for the consequences of medications .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've felt that the drug companies have been the problem with healthcare for quite some time.
If they spent half as much on advertising and bribing doctors, we just might have CURES for REAL diseases like cancer.
Instead they are happy dispensing medications that really only minimize a set of symptoms or worse yet serve to strengthen the diseases in patients that do not have the knowledge or discipline to accurately administer their medication.
The FDA used to keep companies from mentioning the name of their medication in their advertisements, the problem then became that they just made ads describing diseases and scared everyone into seeing their doctor.
The first thing that needs to happen (BEFORE HEALTH CARE REFORM) is someone should make these companies stop bribing the doctors and doctors and drug companies should be held more accountable for the consequences of medications.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634836</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262517720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Very good points. However, I strongly recommend you read up on the correct use of parentheses.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Very good points .
However , I strongly recommend you read up on the correct use of parentheses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Very good points.
However, I strongly recommend you read up on the correct use of parentheses.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30637328</id>
	<title>Re:When I lost my insurance...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262538060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm going to be argumentative... I apologise in advance<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>You've moved to a place with fewer people = fewer vectors for disease + fewer unique diseases</p><p>You'll have fewer things to catch and fewer ways to catch them. Even then, you've still had more illness with fever than I have over the past five years. In fact, the only times that I did get ill was going my rural home and acquiring a cold strain that wasn't in circulation in the city. Oh, and I had lousy, eyes-itchy, nose-streaming, stinking hayfever, too.</p><p>But the real point of my post is this:</p><p>The idea that you are not obliterating 'harmless' bacterial colonisation is absurd. You only do that by: a) Taking fairly strong antibiotics (and even your GI resident E. coli is fairly resistant these days) - in which case, C. diff very often takes over (hint - this is why old people in hospitals get C. diff... They have it all the time, but the antibiotics needed to save them from their primary infection cause them to be exposed to C. diff overgrowth - it sucks, but that's the balancing act). b) I dunno... Did you wash out your nose, mouth and GI tract with concentrated bleach while you were living in the city???</p><p>The world is covered in bacteria, worms, fungi and virus particles. God made your stomach to have a pH of  2 for a good reason... It's not what's out there, it's what is able to get inside us, through immune compromise or injury.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm going to be argumentative... I apologise in advance : ) You 've moved to a place with fewer people = fewer vectors for disease + fewer unique diseasesYou 'll have fewer things to catch and fewer ways to catch them .
Even then , you 've still had more illness with fever than I have over the past five years .
In fact , the only times that I did get ill was going my rural home and acquiring a cold strain that was n't in circulation in the city .
Oh , and I had lousy , eyes-itchy , nose-streaming , stinking hayfever , too.But the real point of my post is this : The idea that you are not obliterating 'harmless ' bacterial colonisation is absurd .
You only do that by : a ) Taking fairly strong antibiotics ( and even your GI resident E. coli is fairly resistant these days ) - in which case , C. diff very often takes over ( hint - this is why old people in hospitals get C. diff... They have it all the time , but the antibiotics needed to save them from their primary infection cause them to be exposed to C. diff overgrowth - it sucks , but that 's the balancing act ) .
b ) I dunno... Did you wash out your nose , mouth and GI tract with concentrated bleach while you were living in the city ? ?
? The world is covered in bacteria , worms , fungi and virus particles .
God made your stomach to have a pH of 2 for a good reason... It 's not what 's out there , it 's what is able to get inside us , through immune compromise or injury .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm going to be argumentative... I apologise in advance :)You've moved to a place with fewer people = fewer vectors for disease + fewer unique diseasesYou'll have fewer things to catch and fewer ways to catch them.
Even then, you've still had more illness with fever than I have over the past five years.
In fact, the only times that I did get ill was going my rural home and acquiring a cold strain that wasn't in circulation in the city.
Oh, and I had lousy, eyes-itchy, nose-streaming, stinking hayfever, too.But the real point of my post is this:The idea that you are not obliterating 'harmless' bacterial colonisation is absurd.
You only do that by: a) Taking fairly strong antibiotics (and even your GI resident E. coli is fairly resistant these days) - in which case, C. diff very often takes over (hint - this is why old people in hospitals get C. diff... They have it all the time, but the antibiotics needed to save them from their primary infection cause them to be exposed to C. diff overgrowth - it sucks, but that's the balancing act).
b) I dunno... Did you wash out your nose, mouth and GI tract with concentrated bleach while you were living in the city??
?The world is covered in bacteria, worms, fungi and virus particles.
God made your stomach to have a pH of  2 for a good reason... It's not what's out there, it's what is able to get inside us, through immune compromise or injury.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634886</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634164</id>
	<title>Re:Stop with the drugs already</title>
	<author>dexmachina</author>
	<datestamp>1262512920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Er, preventative medicine is entirely different from treatment medicine. Vaccinations and antibiotics are entirely different compounds. The article is about letting certain illnesses run their course naturally, not saying, "Well, screw it let's just not bother with the whole medicine thing." Unless of course you'd like to see a resurgence in polio.
<br> <br>
It appears that years of media scaremongering and anti-vaccine lobbies have gotten through the youth crowd quite effectively.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Er , preventative medicine is entirely different from treatment medicine .
Vaccinations and antibiotics are entirely different compounds .
The article is about letting certain illnesses run their course naturally , not saying , " Well , screw it let 's just not bother with the whole medicine thing .
" Unless of course you 'd like to see a resurgence in polio .
It appears that years of media scaremongering and anti-vaccine lobbies have gotten through the youth crowd quite effectively .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Er, preventative medicine is entirely different from treatment medicine.
Vaccinations and antibiotics are entirely different compounds.
The article is about letting certain illnesses run their course naturally, not saying, "Well, screw it let's just not bother with the whole medicine thing.
" Unless of course you'd like to see a resurgence in polio.
It appears that years of media scaremongering and anti-vaccine lobbies have gotten through the youth crowd quite effectively.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30637922</id>
	<title>Re:And when the arm has to come off...</title>
	<author>ColdWetDog</author>
	<datestamp>1262546160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>No I am not kidding.  If you get bit by anything, or have your skin broken by anything, the first thing to do is to flush the area profusely.  As the old saying goes 'the solution to pollution is dilution'.  Perhaps some mild soap added to the saline but not much else.  I see people try to 'clean' wounds with all sorts of things.  Alcohol (kills good tissue), Hydrogen Perioxide (likewise), Neosporin (just mucks up things and 10\% of people are allergic to the crap).  <br> <br>
If the aforementioned patient shows up in an ER or goes to surgery, the very first thing they will do is flood the area to decrease the level of contamination.  Antibiotics are used (or not) depending on circumstances.  For a primary dog bite that is uncomplicated, antibiotics are not usually needed.  For cat or human bites, they definitely are.<br> <br>
Since I don't deal with gunshot wounds all that much, I'd have to look it up.  But the reason that people died from infections in olden times wasn't necessarily due to the use of antibiotics.  It was due to the lack of aseptic technique.  Not to say that antibiotics aren't needed at times, but they aren't the only thing we use and in fact, not the primary treatment in many instances.  If I had a choice, I would take aseptic technique (clean water, clean dressings, washing your dirty hands) and no antibiotics over antibiotics and dirty wound care.</htmltext>
<tokenext>No I am not kidding .
If you get bit by anything , or have your skin broken by anything , the first thing to do is to flush the area profusely .
As the old saying goes 'the solution to pollution is dilution' .
Perhaps some mild soap added to the saline but not much else .
I see people try to 'clean ' wounds with all sorts of things .
Alcohol ( kills good tissue ) , Hydrogen Perioxide ( likewise ) , Neosporin ( just mucks up things and 10 \ % of people are allergic to the crap ) .
If the aforementioned patient shows up in an ER or goes to surgery , the very first thing they will do is flood the area to decrease the level of contamination .
Antibiotics are used ( or not ) depending on circumstances .
For a primary dog bite that is uncomplicated , antibiotics are not usually needed .
For cat or human bites , they definitely are .
Since I do n't deal with gunshot wounds all that much , I 'd have to look it up .
But the reason that people died from infections in olden times was n't necessarily due to the use of antibiotics .
It was due to the lack of aseptic technique .
Not to say that antibiotics are n't needed at times , but they are n't the only thing we use and in fact , not the primary treatment in many instances .
If I had a choice , I would take aseptic technique ( clean water , clean dressings , washing your dirty hands ) and no antibiotics over antibiotics and dirty wound care .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No I am not kidding.
If you get bit by anything, or have your skin broken by anything, the first thing to do is to flush the area profusely.
As the old saying goes 'the solution to pollution is dilution'.
Perhaps some mild soap added to the saline but not much else.
I see people try to 'clean' wounds with all sorts of things.
Alcohol (kills good tissue), Hydrogen Perioxide (likewise), Neosporin (just mucks up things and 10\% of people are allergic to the crap).
If the aforementioned patient shows up in an ER or goes to surgery, the very first thing they will do is flood the area to decrease the level of contamination.
Antibiotics are used (or not) depending on circumstances.
For a primary dog bite that is uncomplicated, antibiotics are not usually needed.
For cat or human bites, they definitely are.
Since I don't deal with gunshot wounds all that much, I'd have to look it up.
But the reason that people died from infections in olden times wasn't necessarily due to the use of antibiotics.
It was due to the lack of aseptic technique.
Not to say that antibiotics aren't needed at times, but they aren't the only thing we use and in fact, not the primary treatment in many instances.
If I had a choice, I would take aseptic technique (clean water, clean dressings, washing your dirty hands) and no antibiotics over antibiotics and dirty wound care.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634376</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30639878</id>
	<title>Re:The People Problem</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262615640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The only downside of the idea being that the first patient infected with the new Super-AIDS will be you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The only downside of the idea being that the first patient infected with the new Super-AIDS will be you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only downside of the idea being that the first patient infected with the new Super-AIDS will be you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634240</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30640740</id>
	<title>Re:Tip for USA</title>
	<author>u38cg</author>
	<datestamp>1262620920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hmm.  I used to work in high care food production, which essentially means spending your working day acting as if you were in an operating theatre.  You washed your hands twenty times a day or more and dosed them with alcohol.  If you touched your face or a non-food contact surface, you washed them again.  During the time I spent there, I didn't come down with a single cough, cold, runny nose, sore throat, anything.  We also had incredibly low sickness rates in general.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hmm .
I used to work in high care food production , which essentially means spending your working day acting as if you were in an operating theatre .
You washed your hands twenty times a day or more and dosed them with alcohol .
If you touched your face or a non-food contact surface , you washed them again .
During the time I spent there , I did n't come down with a single cough , cold , runny nose , sore throat , anything .
We also had incredibly low sickness rates in general .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hmm.
I used to work in high care food production, which essentially means spending your working day acting as if you were in an operating theatre.
You washed your hands twenty times a day or more and dosed them with alcohol.
If you touched your face or a non-food contact surface, you washed them again.
During the time I spent there, I didn't come down with a single cough, cold, runny nose, sore throat, anything.
We also had incredibly low sickness rates in general.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634342</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30637292</id>
	<title>Re:Did someone in Norway really say 'Tylenol' ?</title>
	<author>zippthorne</author>
	<datestamp>1262537820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Tylenol is a well-known anti-liver drug that is frequently used in the US as a placebo for pain relief.  It is so commonly used for this purpose that it is often added to actual pain relievers (like oxycodone) to "improve" their "effectiveness."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Tylenol is a well-known anti-liver drug that is frequently used in the US as a placebo for pain relief .
It is so commonly used for this purpose that it is often added to actual pain relievers ( like oxycodone ) to " improve " their " effectiveness .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tylenol is a well-known anti-liver drug that is frequently used in the US as a placebo for pain relief.
It is so commonly used for this purpose that it is often added to actual pain relievers (like oxycodone) to "improve" their "effectiveness.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30635062</id>
	<title>Re:Tip for USA</title>
	<author>aaandre</author>
	<datestamp>1262519340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't feel forced to force kids to do anything. You can also teach them, create a routine, educate them, make a game out of it.</p><p>Being forceful lacks imagination.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't feel forced to force kids to do anything .
You can also teach them , create a routine , educate them , make a game out of it.Being forceful lacks imagination .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't feel forced to force kids to do anything.
You can also teach them, create a routine, educate them, make a game out of it.Being forceful lacks imagination.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634342</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634376</id>
	<title>Re:And when the arm has to come off...</title>
	<author>YesIAmAScript</author>
	<datestamp>1262514240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sterile saline? You're kidding me, right?</p><p>Your skin is your greatest protection against infection. When it is broken, like with a dog bite, the chances of infection go up exponentially. You don't need a wonky immune system to get infected in these circumstances. And you speak out against antibiotic use in this context?</p><p>A wash with sterile saline will do virtually nothing if the infection has already taken root.</p><p>Infection was the biggest killer during wars until the advent of antibiotics. And it wasn't just because lots of people happened to have wonky immune systems.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sterile saline ?
You 're kidding me , right ? Your skin is your greatest protection against infection .
When it is broken , like with a dog bite , the chances of infection go up exponentially .
You do n't need a wonky immune system to get infected in these circumstances .
And you speak out against antibiotic use in this context ? A wash with sterile saline will do virtually nothing if the infection has already taken root.Infection was the biggest killer during wars until the advent of antibiotics .
And it was n't just because lots of people happened to have wonky immune systems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sterile saline?
You're kidding me, right?Your skin is your greatest protection against infection.
When it is broken, like with a dog bite, the chances of infection go up exponentially.
You don't need a wonky immune system to get infected in these circumstances.
And you speak out against antibiotic use in this context?A wash with sterile saline will do virtually nothing if the infection has already taken root.Infection was the biggest killer during wars until the advent of antibiotics.
And it wasn't just because lots of people happened to have wonky immune systems.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634204</id>
	<title>Re:And when the arm has to come off...</title>
	<author>Trepidity</author>
	<datestamp>1262513160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's balancing risks of one kind versus risks of another kind. Yes, giving antibiotics to everyone who comes in the ER with any sort of wound would kill some infections that wouldn't otherwise be killed. But it will also result in other infections being much worse as those same antibiotics lose effectiveness. Just giving everyone antibiotics will result in fewer amputations due to dog bites, perhaps, but more amputations due to MRSA.</p><p>What exactly the proper level of antibiotic prescription---which antibiotics, in which cases, etc.---is a tricky question, but lots of people have spent a lot of effort trying to quantify both sides of the equation. An anecdote is not really a good counterargument, especially as there are plenty of balancing anecdotes (I have one) of people losing arms or dying due to MRSA as a direct result of antibiotic overprescription.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's balancing risks of one kind versus risks of another kind .
Yes , giving antibiotics to everyone who comes in the ER with any sort of wound would kill some infections that would n't otherwise be killed .
But it will also result in other infections being much worse as those same antibiotics lose effectiveness .
Just giving everyone antibiotics will result in fewer amputations due to dog bites , perhaps , but more amputations due to MRSA.What exactly the proper level of antibiotic prescription---which antibiotics , in which cases , etc.---is a tricky question , but lots of people have spent a lot of effort trying to quantify both sides of the equation .
An anecdote is not really a good counterargument , especially as there are plenty of balancing anecdotes ( I have one ) of people losing arms or dying due to MRSA as a direct result of antibiotic overprescription .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's balancing risks of one kind versus risks of another kind.
Yes, giving antibiotics to everyone who comes in the ER with any sort of wound would kill some infections that wouldn't otherwise be killed.
But it will also result in other infections being much worse as those same antibiotics lose effectiveness.
Just giving everyone antibiotics will result in fewer amputations due to dog bites, perhaps, but more amputations due to MRSA.What exactly the proper level of antibiotic prescription---which antibiotics, in which cases, etc.---is a tricky question, but lots of people have spent a lot of effort trying to quantify both sides of the equation.
An anecdote is not really a good counterargument, especially as there are plenty of balancing anecdotes (I have one) of people losing arms or dying due to MRSA as a direct result of antibiotic overprescription.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634956</id>
	<title>Re:Did someone in Norway really say 'Tylenol' ?</title>
	<author>ThrowAwaySociety</author>
	<datestamp>1262518620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Or was a quote altered to push a US (only?) brand?</p></div><p>Aspirin was once a trademark, too. Still is, in some places.</p><p>Most Americans know "acetaminophen" as Tylenol in the same way that they know "acetylsalicylic acid" as aspirin.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Or was a quote altered to push a US ( only ?
) brand ? Aspirin was once a trademark , too .
Still is , in some places.Most Americans know " acetaminophen " as Tylenol in the same way that they know " acetylsalicylic acid " as aspirin .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or was a quote altered to push a US (only?
) brand?Aspirin was once a trademark, too.
Still is, in some places.Most Americans know "acetaminophen" as Tylenol in the same way that they know "acetylsalicylic acid" as aspirin.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634228</id>
	<title>Re:This article is so RIGHT</title>
	<author>MichaelSmith</author>
	<datestamp>1262513280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wonder if the climate in Norway plays a part? Maybe bacteria find it harder to move between individuals because of the cold, while in the tropics they could live longer on surfaces and propagate more quickly.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder if the climate in Norway plays a part ?
Maybe bacteria find it harder to move between individuals because of the cold , while in the tropics they could live longer on surfaces and propagate more quickly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder if the climate in Norway plays a part?
Maybe bacteria find it harder to move between individuals because of the cold, while in the tropics they could live longer on surfaces and propagate more quickly.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634130</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30636418</id>
	<title>Re:This article is so RIGHT</title>
	<author>RealGrouchy</author>
	<datestamp>1262529120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>...patients who want a prescription to justify their trip to the doctor's office...</p></div><p>I never thought I'd say this, but finally a use for homeopathy!</p><p>- RG&gt;</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...patients who want a prescription to justify their trip to the doctor 's office...I never thought I 'd say this , but finally a use for homeopathy ! - RG &gt;</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ...patients who want a prescription to justify their trip to the doctor's office...I never thought I'd say this, but finally a use for homeopathy!- RG&gt;
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634130</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30637886</id>
	<title>Re:Stop with the drugs already</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262545500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>While *you* might be a healthy 20-25 year old who at worst might spend a day feeling lousy if you caught the flu... you should still get vaccinated to protect the people around you who may be unable to get the vaccine themselves for one reason or another. This goes double in a situation like college where there are lots of people very close together, and quadruple in a dormitory (where it's even worse).</htmltext>
<tokenext>While * you * might be a healthy 20-25 year old who at worst might spend a day feeling lousy if you caught the flu... you should still get vaccinated to protect the people around you who may be unable to get the vaccine themselves for one reason or another .
This goes double in a situation like college where there are lots of people very close together , and quadruple in a dormitory ( where it 's even worse ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While *you* might be a healthy 20-25 year old who at worst might spend a day feeling lousy if you caught the flu... you should still get vaccinated to protect the people around you who may be unable to get the vaccine themselves for one reason or another.
This goes double in a situation like college where there are lots of people very close together, and quadruple in a dormitory (where it's even worse).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634702</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262516940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I do not think much, outside out of the vast tundra, and Caribou...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do not think much , outside out of the vast tundra , and Caribou.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I do not think much, outside out of the vast tundra, and Caribou...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_03_2018247.30634144</parent>
</comment>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_03_2018247_80</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_03_2018247_27</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_03_2018247_5</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_03_2018247_18</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_03_2018247_60</id>
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