<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_12_30_1322209</id>
	<title>Midwest Seeing Red Over 'Green' Traffic Lights</title>
	<author>CmdrTaco</author>
	<datestamp>1262184900000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>theodp writes <i>"Many municipalities have switched to LED traffic signals because they burn brighter, last longer and use 90\% less energy than incandescent bulbs. But they also emit less heat, meaning <a href="http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-led-traffic-lights-29-dec29,0,3473513.story">they sometimes have trouble melting snow</a>, causing problems across the Midwest. In Wisconsin, snow blanketed LED traffic lights in some towns, leading to crashes at intersections where drivers weren't sure whether to stop or go. The unintended consequences of the green technology were also identified as a 'contributing factor'  in the death of an Illinois woman hit by a driver who blamed the <a href="http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2009-12/51332464.jpg">snow-covered energy-efficient signal</a> for giving the appearance of a normal green light instead of a left-turn signal. 'We can remove the snow with heat, but the cost of doing that in terms of energy use has not brought any enthusiasm from cities and states that buy these signals,' said the CEO of an LED traffic-signal manufacturer. 'They'd like to be able to take away this issue, but they don't want to spend the money and lose the savings.' In the meantime, some towns are addressing sporadic problems by dispatching crews to remove snow or ice from signals using poles, brooms, and heating devices."</i>  We were discussing these recently at the office &mdash; several folks in the building are red/green color blind and different street lights are differently distinguishable.</htmltext>
<tokenext>theodp writes " Many municipalities have switched to LED traffic signals because they burn brighter , last longer and use 90 \ % less energy than incandescent bulbs .
But they also emit less heat , meaning they sometimes have trouble melting snow , causing problems across the Midwest .
In Wisconsin , snow blanketed LED traffic lights in some towns , leading to crashes at intersections where drivers were n't sure whether to stop or go .
The unintended consequences of the green technology were also identified as a 'contributing factor ' in the death of an Illinois woman hit by a driver who blamed the snow-covered energy-efficient signal for giving the appearance of a normal green light instead of a left-turn signal .
'We can remove the snow with heat , but the cost of doing that in terms of energy use has not brought any enthusiasm from cities and states that buy these signals, ' said the CEO of an LED traffic-signal manufacturer .
'They 'd like to be able to take away this issue , but they do n't want to spend the money and lose the savings .
' In the meantime , some towns are addressing sporadic problems by dispatching crews to remove snow or ice from signals using poles , brooms , and heating devices .
" We were discussing these recently at the office    several folks in the building are red/green color blind and different street lights are differently distinguishable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>theodp writes "Many municipalities have switched to LED traffic signals because they burn brighter, last longer and use 90\% less energy than incandescent bulbs.
But they also emit less heat, meaning they sometimes have trouble melting snow, causing problems across the Midwest.
In Wisconsin, snow blanketed LED traffic lights in some towns, leading to crashes at intersections where drivers weren't sure whether to stop or go.
The unintended consequences of the green technology were also identified as a 'contributing factor'  in the death of an Illinois woman hit by a driver who blamed the snow-covered energy-efficient signal for giving the appearance of a normal green light instead of a left-turn signal.
'We can remove the snow with heat, but the cost of doing that in terms of energy use has not brought any enthusiasm from cities and states that buy these signals,' said the CEO of an LED traffic-signal manufacturer.
'They'd like to be able to take away this issue, but they don't want to spend the money and lose the savings.
' In the meantime, some towns are addressing sporadic problems by dispatching crews to remove snow or ice from signals using poles, brooms, and heating devices.
"  We were discussing these recently at the office — several folks in the building are red/green color blind and different street lights are differently distinguishable.</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594276</id>
	<title>and other traffic control devices?</title>
	<author>sloth jr</author>
	<datestamp>1259858820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Signs will get obscured in snowstorms, whether it's a traffic light, speed limit, left lane must turn left, etc. Part of being a licensed driver is being able to understand and implement the rules of right of way to avoid problems when the usual control systems aren't available (okay - and also when they are). Tighten up US driver's licensing like Europe's, and I doubt these problems would be as severe.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Signs will get obscured in snowstorms , whether it 's a traffic light , speed limit , left lane must turn left , etc .
Part of being a licensed driver is being able to understand and implement the rules of right of way to avoid problems when the usual control systems are n't available ( okay - and also when they are ) .
Tighten up US driver 's licensing like Europe 's , and I doubt these problems would be as severe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Signs will get obscured in snowstorms, whether it's a traffic light, speed limit, left lane must turn left, etc.
Part of being a licensed driver is being able to understand and implement the rules of right of way to avoid problems when the usual control systems aren't available (okay - and also when they are).
Tighten up US driver's licensing like Europe's, and I doubt these problems would be as severe.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596366</id>
	<title>Re:Why do they trap snow?</title>
	<author>nsayer</author>
	<datestamp>1259865120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Frost accumulates on the lights too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Frost accumulates on the lights too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Frost accumulates on the lights too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595928</id>
	<title>Re:Only apply heat when there's snow on the light?</title>
	<author>noidentity</author>
	<datestamp>1259863860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's what I was thinking. You could look at how much light is being reflected back into the lamp housing. Maybe something conductive or capacitave would work as well. Temperature isn't the best guide since I imagine in some places it's below freezing for weeks, even though there is no snow. Maybe it could also do it based on weight, or perhaps even something acoustic. The point is something simple which works reliably, though probably nothing beats good old incandescent bulbs in terms of that.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's what I was thinking .
You could look at how much light is being reflected back into the lamp housing .
Maybe something conductive or capacitave would work as well .
Temperature is n't the best guide since I imagine in some places it 's below freezing for weeks , even though there is no snow .
Maybe it could also do it based on weight , or perhaps even something acoustic .
The point is something simple which works reliably , though probably nothing beats good old incandescent bulbs in terms of that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's what I was thinking.
You could look at how much light is being reflected back into the lamp housing.
Maybe something conductive or capacitave would work as well.
Temperature isn't the best guide since I imagine in some places it's below freezing for weeks, even though there is no snow.
Maybe it could also do it based on weight, or perhaps even something acoustic.
The point is something simple which works reliably, though probably nothing beats good old incandescent bulbs in terms of that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593708</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594194</id>
	<title>Redesign The Lights to Not collect snow</title>
	<author>curmudgeon99</author>
	<datestamp>1259858520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is just highlighting a design flaw in the lights that incandescent lights had been masking. The obvious solution is to redesign the traffic signals so they don't accumulate snow. If you look at them now, they're buckets.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is just highlighting a design flaw in the lights that incandescent lights had been masking .
The obvious solution is to redesign the traffic signals so they do n't accumulate snow .
If you look at them now , they 're buckets .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is just highlighting a design flaw in the lights that incandescent lights had been masking.
The obvious solution is to redesign the traffic signals so they don't accumulate snow.
If you look at them now, they're buckets.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595482</id>
	<title>I takes</title>
	<author>Akita24</author>
	<datestamp>1259862480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>More brain power than the average driver has to figure out that if you can't see the signal, perhaps you should fucking slow down or stop before proceeding. Oh wait, never mind, these must be the same people who claim they have no problem paying attention to driving while talking on their cell phones.</htmltext>
<tokenext>More brain power than the average driver has to figure out that if you ca n't see the signal , perhaps you should fucking slow down or stop before proceeding .
Oh wait , never mind , these must be the same people who claim they have no problem paying attention to driving while talking on their cell phones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>More brain power than the average driver has to figure out that if you can't see the signal, perhaps you should fucking slow down or stop before proceeding.
Oh wait, never mind, these must be the same people who claim they have no problem paying attention to driving while talking on their cell phones.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597424</id>
	<title>broken</title>
	<author>Quiet\_Desperation</author>
	<datestamp>1259869080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They also seem to be built poorly. Many of the ones here in So Cal have individual LEDs out. I'd suggest poor weatherproofing, but we so rarely have any weather.</htmltext>
<tokenext>They also seem to be built poorly .
Many of the ones here in So Cal have individual LEDs out .
I 'd suggest poor weatherproofing , but we so rarely have any weather .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They also seem to be built poorly.
Many of the ones here in So Cal have individual LEDs out.
I'd suggest poor weatherproofing, but we so rarely have any weather.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594660</id>
	<title>Re:If ND doesn't have this problem...</title>
	<author>Havokmon</author>
	<datestamp>1259859960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I live in North Dakota, we've had these LED traffic lights for years, and I cannot remember the last time I  saw one totally snowed up. </p></div><p>I'm in Wisconsin, and at least 2 years ago I could see the snow piling up on the shields above the green and yellow lights enough to cover the led lights above them. It seemed quite obvious that the LEDs weren't hot enough to melt the snow.

I just thought it was a well known issue by now.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I live in North Dakota , we 've had these LED traffic lights for years , and I can not remember the last time I saw one totally snowed up .
I 'm in Wisconsin , and at least 2 years ago I could see the snow piling up on the shields above the green and yellow lights enough to cover the led lights above them .
It seemed quite obvious that the LEDs were n't hot enough to melt the snow .
I just thought it was a well known issue by now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I live in North Dakota, we've had these LED traffic lights for years, and I cannot remember the last time I  saw one totally snowed up.
I'm in Wisconsin, and at least 2 years ago I could see the snow piling up on the shields above the green and yellow lights enough to cover the led lights above them.
It seemed quite obvious that the LEDs weren't hot enough to melt the snow.
I just thought it was a well known issue by now.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594336</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597410</id>
	<title>Re:They bought the lights to save money...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259869020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Except what you fail to realize is that incandescents give off heat 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.  The heat needed to melt the snow might be as few as 10 days a year or whatever, depending on how many blizzards come along sticky and strong enough to coat the lights.</p><p>$ Heat for ten days   $ heat for 365 days</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Except what you fail to realize is that incandescents give off heat 24 hours a day , 365 days a year .
The heat needed to melt the snow might be as few as 10 days a year or whatever , depending on how many blizzards come along sticky and strong enough to coat the lights. $ Heat for ten days $ heat for 365 days</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except what you fail to realize is that incandescents give off heat 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.
The heat needed to melt the snow might be as few as 10 days a year or whatever, depending on how many blizzards come along sticky and strong enough to coat the lights.$ Heat for ten days   $ heat for 365 days</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593716</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597232</id>
	<title>Re:whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259868300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Weird, until I'd seen the picture in the article, I had never seen a 5 high signal - I'm used to an arrangement of either two parallel columns of 3 or a red with two parallel columns of 2 below e.g.<br>RL R          R<br>YL Y  or   YL Y        So no, not "everyone" knows the third light from the top is the regular green.  If he's a local and such an arrangement is the norm in your area, your point still holds, but traffic signal layout is not universal throughout the country.<br>GL G       GL G</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Weird , until I 'd seen the picture in the article , I had never seen a 5 high signal - I 'm used to an arrangement of either two parallel columns of 3 or a red with two parallel columns of 2 below e.g.RL R RYL Y or YL Y So no , not " everyone " knows the third light from the top is the regular green .
If he 's a local and such an arrangement is the norm in your area , your point still holds , but traffic signal layout is not universal throughout the country.GL G GL G</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Weird, until I'd seen the picture in the article, I had never seen a 5 high signal - I'm used to an arrangement of either two parallel columns of 3 or a red with two parallel columns of 2 below e.g.RL R          RYL Y  or   YL Y        So no, not "everyone" knows the third light from the top is the regular green.
If he's a local and such an arrangement is the norm in your area, your point still holds, but traffic signal layout is not universal throughout the country.GL G       GL G</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593488</id>
	<title>heating element</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259856000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>why not include a heating element within the lamp that will only turn on when it's ~35F or below? That way you get the best of both worlds?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>why not include a heating element within the lamp that will only turn on when it 's ~ 35F or below ?
That way you get the best of both worlds ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>why not include a heating element within the lamp that will only turn on when it's ~35F or below?
That way you get the best of both worlds?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594112</id>
	<title>Re:Good Advice</title>
	<author>Rastl</author>
	<datestamp>1259858220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>If you're not sure to stop or go, the answer is "stop". I can understand if it's dark and you don't see the traffic lights because they're covered with snow, but if the lights at the intersection aren't working, that doesn't mean the light is green. It means stop and go when it's safe to.</p></div></blockquote><p>The problem was not that the lights weren't working because they were covered with snow.  The problem was that the light was diffused through the snow.  So a green arrow appeared as a solid green light.  This is much different from 'not working'.</p><p>I agree that any intersection with malfunctioning traffic lights should be treated as a full 4 way stop but here's where it gets tricky.  Snow is generally directional.  So maybe only 1 or 2 of the 4 traffic lights have degraded functionality.  How should that be handled?  Also, I may decide to treat the intersection as a 4 way stop but the 3 cars behind me don't do that.  I stop, they don't.  Well, not right away.</p><p>I'm not surprised that the heat issue wasn't addressed in the decision to replace incandescent with LED.  It's one of those things that you don't think of - heat from the lamp melts snow.  It always "just worked" before.  It's now a known issue and they're looking for a reasonable solution.  Same thing as any change - you never find all the problems on the first time around.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're not sure to stop or go , the answer is " stop " .
I can understand if it 's dark and you do n't see the traffic lights because they 're covered with snow , but if the lights at the intersection are n't working , that does n't mean the light is green .
It means stop and go when it 's safe to.The problem was not that the lights were n't working because they were covered with snow .
The problem was that the light was diffused through the snow .
So a green arrow appeared as a solid green light .
This is much different from 'not working'.I agree that any intersection with malfunctioning traffic lights should be treated as a full 4 way stop but here 's where it gets tricky .
Snow is generally directional .
So maybe only 1 or 2 of the 4 traffic lights have degraded functionality .
How should that be handled ?
Also , I may decide to treat the intersection as a 4 way stop but the 3 cars behind me do n't do that .
I stop , they do n't .
Well , not right away.I 'm not surprised that the heat issue was n't addressed in the decision to replace incandescent with LED .
It 's one of those things that you do n't think of - heat from the lamp melts snow .
It always " just worked " before .
It 's now a known issue and they 're looking for a reasonable solution .
Same thing as any change - you never find all the problems on the first time around .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're not sure to stop or go, the answer is "stop".
I can understand if it's dark and you don't see the traffic lights because they're covered with snow, but if the lights at the intersection aren't working, that doesn't mean the light is green.
It means stop and go when it's safe to.The problem was not that the lights weren't working because they were covered with snow.
The problem was that the light was diffused through the snow.
So a green arrow appeared as a solid green light.
This is much different from 'not working'.I agree that any intersection with malfunctioning traffic lights should be treated as a full 4 way stop but here's where it gets tricky.
Snow is generally directional.
So maybe only 1 or 2 of the 4 traffic lights have degraded functionality.
How should that be handled?
Also, I may decide to treat the intersection as a 4 way stop but the 3 cars behind me don't do that.
I stop, they don't.
Well, not right away.I'm not surprised that the heat issue wasn't addressed in the decision to replace incandescent with LED.
It's one of those things that you don't think of - heat from the lamp melts snow.
It always "just worked" before.
It's now a known issue and they're looking for a reasonable solution.
Same thing as any change - you never find all the problems on the first time around.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593470</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593474</id>
	<title>pls</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259856000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>someone is just looking for a scapegoat.  see a light standard, no signal/flashing  YOU STOP</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>someone is just looking for a scapegoat .
see a light standard , no signal/flashing YOU STOP</tokentext>
<sentencetext>someone is just looking for a scapegoat.
see a light standard, no signal/flashing  YOU STOP</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30598258</id>
	<title>heating elements</title>
	<author>OnePumpChump</author>
	<datestamp>1259872260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why would energy use for melting the snow be an issue?  The heating element doesn't need to be on all the time.  It could be activated by a photocell (obviously there would have to be some sort of provision for night time in that), or remotely by radio control, or periodically when the temperature drops below freezing, or only during certain months.  Over the life of the light (the thing wouldn't even come on at all 2/3 of the year in most places), the energy cost should be negligible.  Incorporating it into the design of future lights might cost what...10, 20 bucks?  That barely eats into the savings of going with LEDs at all.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why would energy use for melting the snow be an issue ?
The heating element does n't need to be on all the time .
It could be activated by a photocell ( obviously there would have to be some sort of provision for night time in that ) , or remotely by radio control , or periodically when the temperature drops below freezing , or only during certain months .
Over the life of the light ( the thing would n't even come on at all 2/3 of the year in most places ) , the energy cost should be negligible .
Incorporating it into the design of future lights might cost what...10 , 20 bucks ?
That barely eats into the savings of going with LEDs at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why would energy use for melting the snow be an issue?
The heating element doesn't need to be on all the time.
It could be activated by a photocell (obviously there would have to be some sort of provision for night time in that), or remotely by radio control, or periodically when the temperature drops below freezing, or only during certain months.
Over the life of the light (the thing wouldn't even come on at all 2/3 of the year in most places), the energy cost should be negligible.
Incorporating it into the design of future lights might cost what...10, 20 bucks?
That barely eats into the savings of going with LEDs at all.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595314</id>
	<title>Re:whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>Locutus</author>
	<datestamp>1259862000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree. Too bad there's no IQ test required for having a child nor driving a multi ton vehicle. No doubt over 50\% of those out on the road don't know where the stop/caution/go lights are on the tree.<br><br>LoB</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree .
Too bad there 's no IQ test required for having a child nor driving a multi ton vehicle .
No doubt over 50 \ % of those out on the road do n't know where the stop/caution/go lights are on the tree.LoB</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree.
Too bad there's no IQ test required for having a child nor driving a multi ton vehicle.
No doubt over 50\% of those out on the road don't know where the stop/caution/go lights are on the tree.LoB</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595300</id>
	<title>Re:whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>Brett Buck</author>
	<datestamp>1259861940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>idiot driver should be prosecuted since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal.</p></div> </blockquote><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Bullshit!  I would wager at least 25\% of the LED lights I have seen have the third light as a combined left turn or straight green. LEDs permit that easily - just turn on the elements for the left turn, then all of them, when it goes from "left" to "green".</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>idiot driver should be prosecuted since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal .
      Bullshit !
I would wager at least 25 \ % of the LED lights I have seen have the third light as a combined left turn or straight green .
LEDs permit that easily - just turn on the elements for the left turn , then all of them , when it goes from " left " to " green " .
       </tokentext>
<sentencetext>idiot driver should be prosecuted since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal.
      Bullshit!
I would wager at least 25\% of the LED lights I have seen have the third light as a combined left turn or straight green.
LEDs permit that easily - just turn on the elements for the left turn, then all of them, when it goes from "left" to "green".
       
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594950</id>
	<title>Bad summary</title>
	<author>tanderson92</author>
	<datestamp>1259860860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>BadSummary(TM)

The dead woman clearly couldn't contest the accident.

The clarity in writing these days is deplorable.</htmltext>
<tokenext>BadSummary ( TM ) The dead woman clearly could n't contest the accident .
The clarity in writing these days is deplorable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>BadSummary(TM)

The dead woman clearly couldn't contest the accident.
The clarity in writing these days is deplorable.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30603128</id>
	<title>Re:whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>FrankieBaby1986</author>
	<datestamp>1259865180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> some people are always in a constant state of hurry and can't seem to wait a few seconds</p> </div><p> You hit the nail on the head. About a week ago I was driving in my neighborhood (suburbia) and I was stopped at a stop sign. I took a moment to adjust my radio as we were stopped, when a woman behind me started honking. I looked in the rearview and saw her mouth "Asshole". I gave her the finger (dumb) and drove on. Two blocks later, I'm at a red light, she's behind me. Now, there's poor visibility of oncoming traffic on the left at this light due to a hill. Now, I'm in PA, so I can make a right on red, IF it's safe. I decided I was in no hurry, it was somewhat risky (in light traffic I go at this corner, but this was rush hour, so I play it a bit safe), and this woman was an ass. So I waited out the light (about 20 seconds). She starts honking  repeatedly and so I ignored her. Finally, the light turns and I go, only for us both to be caught at the next red (left turn lane) a block later. She's now screaming "I'm gonna fucking kill you" repeatedly out her open window. <br> <br>
<br>
All that anger for 30 seconds of delay? (and my poor judgement on the finger) Only reason I gave her the finger was because I was acting perfectly within the law and my rights. It was much safer to pause for 2 seconds to adjust my radio, than to roll through a stop sign.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>some people are always in a constant state of hurry and ca n't seem to wait a few seconds You hit the nail on the head .
About a week ago I was driving in my neighborhood ( suburbia ) and I was stopped at a stop sign .
I took a moment to adjust my radio as we were stopped , when a woman behind me started honking .
I looked in the rearview and saw her mouth " Asshole " .
I gave her the finger ( dumb ) and drove on .
Two blocks later , I 'm at a red light , she 's behind me .
Now , there 's poor visibility of oncoming traffic on the left at this light due to a hill .
Now , I 'm in PA , so I can make a right on red , IF it 's safe .
I decided I was in no hurry , it was somewhat risky ( in light traffic I go at this corner , but this was rush hour , so I play it a bit safe ) , and this woman was an ass .
So I waited out the light ( about 20 seconds ) .
She starts honking repeatedly and so I ignored her .
Finally , the light turns and I go , only for us both to be caught at the next red ( left turn lane ) a block later .
She 's now screaming " I 'm gon na fucking kill you " repeatedly out her open window .
All that anger for 30 seconds of delay ?
( and my poor judgement on the finger ) Only reason I gave her the finger was because I was acting perfectly within the law and my rights .
It was much safer to pause for 2 seconds to adjust my radio , than to roll through a stop sign .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> some people are always in a constant state of hurry and can't seem to wait a few seconds  You hit the nail on the head.
About a week ago I was driving in my neighborhood (suburbia) and I was stopped at a stop sign.
I took a moment to adjust my radio as we were stopped, when a woman behind me started honking.
I looked in the rearview and saw her mouth "Asshole".
I gave her the finger (dumb) and drove on.
Two blocks later, I'm at a red light, she's behind me.
Now, there's poor visibility of oncoming traffic on the left at this light due to a hill.
Now, I'm in PA, so I can make a right on red, IF it's safe.
I decided I was in no hurry, it was somewhat risky (in light traffic I go at this corner, but this was rush hour, so I play it a bit safe), and this woman was an ass.
So I waited out the light (about 20 seconds).
She starts honking  repeatedly and so I ignored her.
Finally, the light turns and I go, only for us both to be caught at the next red (left turn lane) a block later.
She's now screaming "I'm gonna fucking kill you" repeatedly out her open window.
All that anger for 30 seconds of delay?
(and my poor judgement on the finger) Only reason I gave her the finger was because I was acting perfectly within the law and my rights.
It was much safer to pause for 2 seconds to adjust my radio, than to roll through a stop sign.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594430</id>
	<title>An intersection with a malfunction...</title>
	<author>Low Ranked Craig</author>
	<datestamp>1259859240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>or a not-visible light is a 4-way stop.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>where drivers weren't sure whether to stop or go</p></div><p>Only a complete idiot would simply drive through an intersection with an impaired signal without stopping and checking for traffic.  The US needs higher standards for awarding Driver's Licenses</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>or a not-visible light is a 4-way stop.where drivers were n't sure whether to stop or goOnly a complete idiot would simply drive through an intersection with an impaired signal without stopping and checking for traffic .
The US needs higher standards for awarding Driver 's Licenses</tokentext>
<sentencetext>or a not-visible light is a 4-way stop.where drivers weren't sure whether to stop or goOnly a complete idiot would simply drive through an intersection with an impaired signal without stopping and checking for traffic.
The US needs higher standards for awarding Driver's Licenses
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595220</id>
	<title>Not Propaganda</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259861700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Same with all "green tech," with a direct comparison: CFL bulbs.  "Yay!  It's green cuz it uses less energy and can last longer!"  But it takes more energy to manufacture the bulbs than a normal bulb consumes in it's lifetime, not even to mention they put out crap almost blue-only light that gives people headaches AND polute the earth with mercury (unlike regular bulbs)!<br>(Sarcasm)Great Idea!(/Sarcasm)<br>This kinda stuff has politics written all over it.  Just to relate my comparison in case you somehow ignore it: The traffic lights gained the political figures favor for saving money, but they didn't care about the fact it might cause deaths.  Likewise, CFL saves money, but they didn't care about the fact it might cause mercury pollution or decrease actual visibility.<br>
&nbsp; <br>I'm not saying "green tech" is bad in general, just that it is almost completely a politcal movement now and being handled accordingly.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Same with all " green tech , " with a direct comparison : CFL bulbs .
" Yay ! It 's green cuz it uses less energy and can last longer !
" But it takes more energy to manufacture the bulbs than a normal bulb consumes in it 's lifetime , not even to mention they put out crap almost blue-only light that gives people headaches AND polute the earth with mercury ( unlike regular bulbs ) !
( Sarcasm ) Great Idea !
( /Sarcasm ) This kinda stuff has politics written all over it .
Just to relate my comparison in case you somehow ignore it : The traffic lights gained the political figures favor for saving money , but they did n't care about the fact it might cause deaths .
Likewise , CFL saves money , but they did n't care about the fact it might cause mercury pollution or decrease actual visibility .
  I 'm not saying " green tech " is bad in general , just that it is almost completely a politcal movement now and being handled accordingly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Same with all "green tech," with a direct comparison: CFL bulbs.
"Yay!  It's green cuz it uses less energy and can last longer!
"  But it takes more energy to manufacture the bulbs than a normal bulb consumes in it's lifetime, not even to mention they put out crap almost blue-only light that gives people headaches AND polute the earth with mercury (unlike regular bulbs)!
(Sarcasm)Great Idea!
(/Sarcasm)This kinda stuff has politics written all over it.
Just to relate my comparison in case you somehow ignore it: The traffic lights gained the political figures favor for saving money, but they didn't care about the fact it might cause deaths.
Likewise, CFL saves money, but they didn't care about the fact it might cause mercury pollution or decrease actual visibility.
  I'm not saying "green tech" is bad in general, just that it is almost completely a politcal movement now and being handled accordingly.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593626</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30599748</id>
	<title>LEDs do generate a fair amount of heat</title>
	<author>PhunkySchtuff</author>
	<datestamp>1259835840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>LEDs do generate a fair amount of heat. In an incandescent globe, a lot of the generated heat comes out through the front glass, melting the snow.<br>In an LED light cluster, there are heatsinks on the back that bleed off the excess heat. If you open up one of these new-fangled LED traffic lights, I guarantee that there will be a heatsink in there. All they need to do is design them so that the heatsink can, using heat pipes or something like that, channel the heat out the front of the traffic light - maybe have the heatsink attached to the shield above the light that is trapping the snow...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>LEDs do generate a fair amount of heat .
In an incandescent globe , a lot of the generated heat comes out through the front glass , melting the snow.In an LED light cluster , there are heatsinks on the back that bleed off the excess heat .
If you open up one of these new-fangled LED traffic lights , I guarantee that there will be a heatsink in there .
All they need to do is design them so that the heatsink can , using heat pipes or something like that , channel the heat out the front of the traffic light - maybe have the heatsink attached to the shield above the light that is trapping the snow.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>LEDs do generate a fair amount of heat.
In an incandescent globe, a lot of the generated heat comes out through the front glass, melting the snow.In an LED light cluster, there are heatsinks on the back that bleed off the excess heat.
If you open up one of these new-fangled LED traffic lights, I guarantee that there will be a heatsink in there.
All they need to do is design them so that the heatsink can, using heat pipes or something like that, channel the heat out the front of the traffic light - maybe have the heatsink attached to the shield above the light that is trapping the snow...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30599462</id>
	<title>Is green hysteria censorship declining?</title>
	<author>AlexLibman</author>
	<datestamp>1259834340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>(1) A story like this is a good candidate for the understatement of the millennium, given how many billions of lives the new environmentalist religion can destroy as it clips the wings of the human civilization and leads to a totalitarian dystopia from which humanity may never recover, but it's nice to see more little stories like this making it past the censors.  Is the bubble finally bursting?  Will people finally start crunching the numbers objectively and realize that the sky is not falling, and that the politically-motivated cure is tremendously worse than the alleged disease?  If so, then the <i>Powers That Be</i> may need a new "enabling event", a crisis to justify maintaining and expanding government power over mankind...</p><p>(2) We wouldn't even need traffic lights in a government-free society, because of all the innovations that <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-market\_roads" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">private ownership of transportation infrastructure</a> [wikipedia.org] would bring.  Even before traffic lights were popularized in the beginning of the 20th century there were experiments with peer-to-peer signaling systems ("I yield to you", "please yield to me", etc) by the same people who invented turn signals.  Just imagine what modern high-speed wireless communications could do - the cars could literally drive themselves!  But in absence of the government-enforced energy famine and trillion-dollar wars for slightly cheaper oil, we'd probably all be flying (yes, flying) around at 400MPH in post-atomic-powered RV's by now!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>( 1 ) A story like this is a good candidate for the understatement of the millennium , given how many billions of lives the new environmentalist religion can destroy as it clips the wings of the human civilization and leads to a totalitarian dystopia from which humanity may never recover , but it 's nice to see more little stories like this making it past the censors .
Is the bubble finally bursting ?
Will people finally start crunching the numbers objectively and realize that the sky is not falling , and that the politically-motivated cure is tremendously worse than the alleged disease ?
If so , then the Powers That Be may need a new " enabling event " , a crisis to justify maintaining and expanding government power over mankind... ( 2 ) We would n't even need traffic lights in a government-free society , because of all the innovations that private ownership of transportation infrastructure [ wikipedia.org ] would bring .
Even before traffic lights were popularized in the beginning of the 20th century there were experiments with peer-to-peer signaling systems ( " I yield to you " , " please yield to me " , etc ) by the same people who invented turn signals .
Just imagine what modern high-speed wireless communications could do - the cars could literally drive themselves !
But in absence of the government-enforced energy famine and trillion-dollar wars for slightly cheaper oil , we 'd probably all be flying ( yes , flying ) around at 400MPH in post-atomic-powered RV 's by now !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>(1) A story like this is a good candidate for the understatement of the millennium, given how many billions of lives the new environmentalist religion can destroy as it clips the wings of the human civilization and leads to a totalitarian dystopia from which humanity may never recover, but it's nice to see more little stories like this making it past the censors.
Is the bubble finally bursting?
Will people finally start crunching the numbers objectively and realize that the sky is not falling, and that the politically-motivated cure is tremendously worse than the alleged disease?
If so, then the Powers That Be may need a new "enabling event", a crisis to justify maintaining and expanding government power over mankind...(2) We wouldn't even need traffic lights in a government-free society, because of all the innovations that private ownership of transportation infrastructure [wikipedia.org] would bring.
Even before traffic lights were popularized in the beginning of the 20th century there were experiments with peer-to-peer signaling systems ("I yield to you", "please yield to me", etc) by the same people who invented turn signals.
Just imagine what modern high-speed wireless communications could do - the cars could literally drive themselves!
But in absence of the government-enforced energy famine and trillion-dollar wars for slightly cheaper oil, we'd probably all be flying (yes, flying) around at 400MPH in post-atomic-powered RV's by now!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594784</id>
	<title>poor design</title>
	<author>TRRosen</author>
	<datestamp>1259860320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>this is a design problem not a green problem. Simply retrofitting LEDs into old designs was a mistake. LEDs don't have the same reflective properties as regular lights and dont need the covers that create most of the problem here. As said before in northern climates we should add a low power heating element, make the whole design smoother to reduce build up ( that would also reduce motion and strain induced by wind ), make them black (also increases contrast) and chemically coating them to prevent build up.</p><p>Note - power usage is not really an issue here. LED lights are not being installed for energy savings. Sure that comes with the package but the real savings is replacement cost. While a LED bulb may cost just as much as the 6 regular bulbs it will replace in its life, that is five fewer times you'll spend hundreds of dollars sending a crew and a lift truck out to replace the bulbs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>this is a design problem not a green problem .
Simply retrofitting LEDs into old designs was a mistake .
LEDs do n't have the same reflective properties as regular lights and dont need the covers that create most of the problem here .
As said before in northern climates we should add a low power heating element , make the whole design smoother to reduce build up ( that would also reduce motion and strain induced by wind ) , make them black ( also increases contrast ) and chemically coating them to prevent build up.Note - power usage is not really an issue here .
LED lights are not being installed for energy savings .
Sure that comes with the package but the real savings is replacement cost .
While a LED bulb may cost just as much as the 6 regular bulbs it will replace in its life , that is five fewer times you 'll spend hundreds of dollars sending a crew and a lift truck out to replace the bulbs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>this is a design problem not a green problem.
Simply retrofitting LEDs into old designs was a mistake.
LEDs don't have the same reflective properties as regular lights and dont need the covers that create most of the problem here.
As said before in northern climates we should add a low power heating element, make the whole design smoother to reduce build up ( that would also reduce motion and strain induced by wind ), make them black (also increases contrast) and chemically coating them to prevent build up.Note - power usage is not really an issue here.
LED lights are not being installed for energy savings.
Sure that comes with the package but the real savings is replacement cost.
While a LED bulb may cost just as much as the 6 regular bulbs it will replace in its life, that is five fewer times you'll spend hundreds of dollars sending a crew and a lift truck out to replace the bulbs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30598268</id>
	<title>Re:The real world defeats the lab</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259872320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh come on, how does this even remotely relate to the technology being "green"? This is an issue with changing any kind of technology - unexpected results. LED lights save money in electricity and by having to replace them later and have a huge number of other benefits. They happen to be better for the environment. I just dont know how you can extrapolate from this tiny issue with a specific (not green, just advanced) technology that "green technology" is less than promised...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh come on , how does this even remotely relate to the technology being " green " ?
This is an issue with changing any kind of technology - unexpected results .
LED lights save money in electricity and by having to replace them later and have a huge number of other benefits .
They happen to be better for the environment .
I just dont know how you can extrapolate from this tiny issue with a specific ( not green , just advanced ) technology that " green technology " is less than promised.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh come on, how does this even remotely relate to the technology being "green"?
This is an issue with changing any kind of technology - unexpected results.
LED lights save money in electricity and by having to replace them later and have a huge number of other benefits.
They happen to be better for the environment.
I just dont know how you can extrapolate from this tiny issue with a specific (not green, just advanced) technology that "green technology" is less than promised...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593838</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30600366</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm...</title>
	<author>kc8jhs</author>
	<datestamp>1259839980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've seen this in the Denver area back in about 2004. (Westminster actually). Around 112th and Federal, there is an area that is really open to the North and West, and got all the lights that faced north completely covered in snow. When I first approached it, I thought that the power was out, so slowed to a stop, saw a few other cars stopped, and waited for them to proceed (assuming everyone was treating it like a 4-way stop, since power must be out). I stopped and the other cards didn't go, so I double checked all directions and started to proceed through the intersection when a car from the right comes flying over a hill at quite alot faster than I thought they should be going, and skidded enough to just miss me and go behind me. I had a hard time clearing the intersection because I was going up hill against ice and snow, and the other driver was going quite fast as they never stopped, and were going downhill as well. <br> <br>

I don't know what else I could have done in that situation.

<br> <br> It seemed that later that day I saw workers using a dump truck to drive around, standing in the back with and using compressed air, or forced air to blow them off.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've seen this in the Denver area back in about 2004 .
( Westminster actually ) .
Around 112th and Federal , there is an area that is really open to the North and West , and got all the lights that faced north completely covered in snow .
When I first approached it , I thought that the power was out , so slowed to a stop , saw a few other cars stopped , and waited for them to proceed ( assuming everyone was treating it like a 4-way stop , since power must be out ) .
I stopped and the other cards did n't go , so I double checked all directions and started to proceed through the intersection when a car from the right comes flying over a hill at quite alot faster than I thought they should be going , and skidded enough to just miss me and go behind me .
I had a hard time clearing the intersection because I was going up hill against ice and snow , and the other driver was going quite fast as they never stopped , and were going downhill as well .
I do n't know what else I could have done in that situation .
It seemed that later that day I saw workers using a dump truck to drive around , standing in the back with and using compressed air , or forced air to blow them off .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've seen this in the Denver area back in about 2004.
(Westminster actually).
Around 112th and Federal, there is an area that is really open to the North and West, and got all the lights that faced north completely covered in snow.
When I first approached it, I thought that the power was out, so slowed to a stop, saw a few other cars stopped, and waited for them to proceed (assuming everyone was treating it like a 4-way stop, since power must be out).
I stopped and the other cards didn't go, so I double checked all directions and started to proceed through the intersection when a car from the right comes flying over a hill at quite alot faster than I thought they should be going, and skidded enough to just miss me and go behind me.
I had a hard time clearing the intersection because I was going up hill against ice and snow, and the other driver was going quite fast as they never stopped, and were going downhill as well.
I don't know what else I could have done in that situation.
It seemed that later that day I saw workers using a dump truck to drive around, standing in the back with and using compressed air, or forced air to blow them off.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593704</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593640</id>
	<title>Re:No issues in Canada</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259856600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>A lot of traffic lights in Canada are of the LED variety. I've never seen one obstructed by snow.</p></div></blockquote><p>
Same here.  These things are all over "Winterpig" and I've never seen one covered in snow in winter.<br> <br>

Let me also say that these LED lights are <i>brilliant</i> if you're colourblind (and even if you're not).  You can see them shining strongly even with, or against, direct sunlight.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A lot of traffic lights in Canada are of the LED variety .
I 've never seen one obstructed by snow .
Same here .
These things are all over " Winterpig " and I 've never seen one covered in snow in winter .
Let me also say that these LED lights are brilliant if you 're colourblind ( and even if you 're not ) .
You can see them shining strongly even with , or against , direct sunlight .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A lot of traffic lights in Canada are of the LED variety.
I've never seen one obstructed by snow.
Same here.
These things are all over "Winterpig" and I've never seen one covered in snow in winter.
Let me also say that these LED lights are brilliant if you're colourblind (and even if you're not).
You can see them shining strongly even with, or against, direct sunlight.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593522</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593834</id>
	<title>Re:New design needed?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259857260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Almost got it. I have heard they use some special coating to solve this problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Almost got it .
I have heard they use some special coating to solve this problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Almost got it.
I have heard they use some special coating to solve this problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593608</id>
	<title>Re:Simple</title>
	<author>Thelasko</author>
	<datestamp>1259856480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Put a small heater in the traffic signal that turns on below 0C (32F).</p></div><p>Or better yet, wire the heater to <a href="http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001XCWLWY/ref=asc\_df\_B001XCWLWY995595?smid=A2OWTFZVIG7K1P&amp;tag=shopzilla\_mp\_1303-20&amp;linkCode=asn&amp;creative=380341&amp;creativeASIN=B001XCWLWY" title="amazon.com">one of these</a> [amazon.com] and have someone drive around and turn them on when it snows.<br> <br>
Either way, if the municipalities don't solve the problem, they will get sued.  How much does that cost?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Put a small heater in the traffic signal that turns on below 0C ( 32F ) .Or better yet , wire the heater to one of these [ amazon.com ] and have someone drive around and turn them on when it snows .
Either way , if the municipalities do n't solve the problem , they will get sued .
How much does that cost ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Put a small heater in the traffic signal that turns on below 0C (32F).Or better yet, wire the heater to one of these [amazon.com] and have someone drive around and turn them on when it snows.
Either way, if the municipalities don't solve the problem, they will get sued.
How much does that cost?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593510</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596294</id>
	<title>Not really news?</title>
	<author>sillivalley</author>
	<datestamp>1259864940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was working with a company doing LED replacements for traffic signals at least five years ago, and people knew about the problem back then. And folks were going through all the gyrations mentioned here, and then some.<br> <br>
Rule #1: Mother Nature always wins.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was working with a company doing LED replacements for traffic signals at least five years ago , and people knew about the problem back then .
And folks were going through all the gyrations mentioned here , and then some .
Rule # 1 : Mother Nature always wins .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was working with a company doing LED replacements for traffic signals at least five years ago, and people knew about the problem back then.
And folks were going through all the gyrations mentioned here, and then some.
Rule #1: Mother Nature always wins.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30602928</id>
	<title>Easy solution...</title>
	<author>spambucket235</author>
	<datestamp>1259862600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just change the middle, yellow light back to an incandescent bulb.  It should generate enough heat to raise temperature of the housing enough to keep snow from sticking in all but the harshest of weather.</p><p>The temperature of the housing only needs to be 1 degree above freezing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just change the middle , yellow light back to an incandescent bulb .
It should generate enough heat to raise temperature of the housing enough to keep snow from sticking in all but the harshest of weather.The temperature of the housing only needs to be 1 degree above freezing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just change the middle, yellow light back to an incandescent bulb.
It should generate enough heat to raise temperature of the housing enough to keep snow from sticking in all but the harshest of weather.The temperature of the housing only needs to be 1 degree above freezing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30599138</id>
	<title>Uuum, WTF?</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1259832840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Isn&rsquo;t that why the simple and effective solution called a &ldquo;roof&rdquo; was invented for?</p><p>Just put a box around it, with a flat, transparent, 45 downwards facing surface in front of the light. There you go. Problem solved.<br>You can even coat it with a water-repelling substance, to prevent fogging.<br>Gravity will do the rest.</p><p>Oh wait... they don&rsquo;t believe in gravity, in the midwest, right? ^^</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Isn    t that why the simple and effective solution called a    roof    was invented for ? Just put a box around it , with a flat , transparent , 45 downwards facing surface in front of the light .
There you go .
Problem solved.You can even coat it with a water-repelling substance , to prevent fogging.Gravity will do the rest.Oh wait... they don    t believe in gravity , in the midwest , right ?
^ ^</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn’t that why the simple and effective solution called a “roof” was invented for?Just put a box around it, with a flat, transparent, 45 downwards facing surface in front of the light.
There you go.
Problem solved.You can even coat it with a water-repelling substance, to prevent fogging.Gravity will do the rest.Oh wait... they don’t believe in gravity, in the midwest, right?
^^</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594928</id>
	<title>Re:Distinguish top from bottom</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259860800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm red/green color-blind. I can't see any numbers in <a href="http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp" title="toledo-bend.com" rel="nofollow">these tests</a> [toledo-bend.com]. I have no trouble differentiating between red and green lights when they're as big as traffic signals, or red and green when they are not tiny dots designed to cause interference patterns with people that are classified red/green color-blind.</p><p>This color-blind label does not mean we cannot tell the different between the two colors in real life. Heck, I can even read resistor values. So let's stop the myth we're all wondering what color grass and trees are, when a red team or red bird is in the area shall we?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm red/green color-blind .
I ca n't see any numbers in these tests [ toledo-bend.com ] .
I have no trouble differentiating between red and green lights when they 're as big as traffic signals , or red and green when they are not tiny dots designed to cause interference patterns with people that are classified red/green color-blind.This color-blind label does not mean we can not tell the different between the two colors in real life .
Heck , I can even read resistor values .
So let 's stop the myth we 're all wondering what color grass and trees are , when a red team or red bird is in the area shall we ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm red/green color-blind.
I can't see any numbers in these tests [toledo-bend.com].
I have no trouble differentiating between red and green lights when they're as big as traffic signals, or red and green when they are not tiny dots designed to cause interference patterns with people that are classified red/green color-blind.This color-blind label does not mean we cannot tell the different between the two colors in real life.
Heck, I can even read resistor values.
So let's stop the myth we're all wondering what color grass and trees are, when a red team or red bird is in the area shall we?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596156</id>
	<title>Re:whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>OrangeTide</author>
	<datestamp>1259864460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>the third light on a light by me is a U-turn arrow. no left turns allowed at all, and no light for going straight through.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>the third light on a light by me is a U-turn arrow .
no left turns allowed at all , and no light for going straight through .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the third light on a light by me is a U-turn arrow.
no left turns allowed at all, and no light for going straight through.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30598660</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259873760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Better yet- perhaps a sensor could be used to detect if the lamp was covered, perhaps by reflectivity</p></div><p>That's actually a pretty good idea. The LEDs themselves can be used as sensors. Since the LEDs are probably already running pulsed at some highish frequency, just skip some on cycles for some LEDs and measure how much light at the cycle rate of the other LEDs is seen by the "sensors". Example: <a href="http://hackaday.com/2009/05/04/led-buttons/" title="hackaday.com" rel="nofollow">LED buttons</a> [hackaday.com]. There's no need to have a permanent LED on sensor duty, when switching it around, a map of snow coverage can be derived.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Better yet- perhaps a sensor could be used to detect if the lamp was covered , perhaps by reflectivityThat 's actually a pretty good idea .
The LEDs themselves can be used as sensors .
Since the LEDs are probably already running pulsed at some highish frequency , just skip some on cycles for some LEDs and measure how much light at the cycle rate of the other LEDs is seen by the " sensors " .
Example : LED buttons [ hackaday.com ] .
There 's no need to have a permanent LED on sensor duty , when switching it around , a map of snow coverage can be derived .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Better yet- perhaps a sensor could be used to detect if the lamp was covered, perhaps by reflectivityThat's actually a pretty good idea.
The LEDs themselves can be used as sensors.
Since the LEDs are probably already running pulsed at some highish frequency, just skip some on cycles for some LEDs and measure how much light at the cycle rate of the other LEDs is seen by the "sensors".
Example: LED buttons [hackaday.com].
There's no need to have a permanent LED on sensor duty, when switching it around, a map of snow coverage can be derived.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593704</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597124</id>
	<title>use an A-B switch</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259867880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Setup an A-B type of switch and have the 'Non-Green' lights on A for use in the winter.</p><p>Then when winter is over throw the A-B switch to B for 'Green' Lights to use the rest of the year.</p><p>You might not save as much money in the winter, but you'd have a mostly maintenance free solution.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Setup an A-B type of switch and have the 'Non-Green ' lights on A for use in the winter.Then when winter is over throw the A-B switch to B for 'Green ' Lights to use the rest of the year.You might not save as much money in the winter , but you 'd have a mostly maintenance free solution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Setup an A-B type of switch and have the 'Non-Green' lights on A for use in the winter.Then when winter is over throw the A-B switch to B for 'Green' Lights to use the rest of the year.You might not save as much money in the winter, but you'd have a mostly maintenance free solution.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594390</id>
	<title>Overthinking</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259859120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It seems to me that building in some sort of new heating device to melt the snow is *drastically* overthinking the problem. Why not just put some sort of cap/window over the light so the snow can't settle INSIDE on the ledge part?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It seems to me that building in some sort of new heating device to melt the snow is * drastically * overthinking the problem .
Why not just put some sort of cap/window over the light so the snow ca n't settle INSIDE on the ledge part ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It seems to me that building in some sort of new heating device to melt the snow is *drastically* overthinking the problem.
Why not just put some sort of cap/window over the light so the snow can't settle INSIDE on the ledge part?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30599058</id>
	<title>Re:The real world defeats the lab</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259832480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or perhaps this is about how a side affect of a previous technology's inefficiency happened to be useful but was never explicitly part of the specification, though maybe it should have been. Kind of like how spiral notebooks also happen to have a pretty handy place to store your pen- its not a deficiency of composition books that you can't just stick your pen in the binding.</p><p>In this case, that side effect improved safety, but that was never by design. Btw... apparently you could still see which green light was lit, but people were not judging by position, they just saw green and went. It is my opinion that if the storm was bad enough to obscure the traffic lights (and I live in the northeast where we do get storms this bad), you should be traveling with extreme caution, and slowly- slow enough that you should only be getting in minor fender benders.</p><p>Finally, these have been in my area for several years now, and this is the first time I have heard of any problems. Perhaps when the old lights became obscured, no one made a big fuss about it, because thats what happens in blizzards. I personally would like to see a side-by-side shot of incandescents that are fully visible and LED's that are obscured.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or perhaps this is about how a side affect of a previous technology 's inefficiency happened to be useful but was never explicitly part of the specification , though maybe it should have been .
Kind of like how spiral notebooks also happen to have a pretty handy place to store your pen- its not a deficiency of composition books that you ca n't just stick your pen in the binding.In this case , that side effect improved safety , but that was never by design .
Btw... apparently you could still see which green light was lit , but people were not judging by position , they just saw green and went .
It is my opinion that if the storm was bad enough to obscure the traffic lights ( and I live in the northeast where we do get storms this bad ) , you should be traveling with extreme caution , and slowly- slow enough that you should only be getting in minor fender benders.Finally , these have been in my area for several years now , and this is the first time I have heard of any problems .
Perhaps when the old lights became obscured , no one made a big fuss about it , because thats what happens in blizzards .
I personally would like to see a side-by-side shot of incandescents that are fully visible and LED 's that are obscured .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or perhaps this is about how a side affect of a previous technology's inefficiency happened to be useful but was never explicitly part of the specification, though maybe it should have been.
Kind of like how spiral notebooks also happen to have a pretty handy place to store your pen- its not a deficiency of composition books that you can't just stick your pen in the binding.In this case, that side effect improved safety, but that was never by design.
Btw... apparently you could still see which green light was lit, but people were not judging by position, they just saw green and went.
It is my opinion that if the storm was bad enough to obscure the traffic lights (and I live in the northeast where we do get storms this bad), you should be traveling with extreme caution, and slowly- slow enough that you should only be getting in minor fender benders.Finally, these have been in my area for several years now, and this is the first time I have heard of any problems.
Perhaps when the old lights became obscured, no one made a big fuss about it, because thats what happens in blizzards.
I personally would like to see a side-by-side shot of incandescents that are fully visible and LED's that are obscured.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593838</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594656</id>
	<title>Darwin would be proud</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259859960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"...leading to crashes at intersections where drivers weren't sure whether to stop or go"</p><p>Quote this article to Intelligent Design freaks as proof that evolution is alive and well!!</p><p>=D</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" ...leading to crashes at intersections where drivers were n't sure whether to stop or go " Quote this article to Intelligent Design freaks as proof that evolution is alive and well !
! = D</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"...leading to crashes at intersections where drivers weren't sure whether to stop or go"Quote this article to Intelligent Design freaks as proof that evolution is alive and well!
!=D
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30599596</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm...</title>
	<author>hyc</author>
	<datestamp>1259834940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Aside from the other stupidity already being commented on, this is purely a case of bad design in the LED traffic signals. LEDs are ~4x more efficient than incandescents, but they're still far from perfect, and they still give off a *lot* of heat.</p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous\_efficacy" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous\_efficacy</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>I've designed and built many lamps using high power/high brightness LEDs. Any time you design a high power LED lamp you have to heat-sink every single LED otherwise it will burn out. The obvious solution here is to run heatpipes from the sinks at the back of the LEDs to the lamp housing and/or front lens. There's no need to add a separate heater, every electronic device *is* a heater.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Aside from the other stupidity already being commented on , this is purely a case of bad design in the LED traffic signals .
LEDs are ~ 4x more efficient than incandescents , but they 're still far from perfect , and they still give off a * lot * of heat.http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous \ _efficacy [ wikipedia.org ] I 've designed and built many lamps using high power/high brightness LEDs .
Any time you design a high power LED lamp you have to heat-sink every single LED otherwise it will burn out .
The obvious solution here is to run heatpipes from the sinks at the back of the LEDs to the lamp housing and/or front lens .
There 's no need to add a separate heater , every electronic device * is * a heater .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Aside from the other stupidity already being commented on, this is purely a case of bad design in the LED traffic signals.
LEDs are ~4x more efficient than incandescents, but they're still far from perfect, and they still give off a *lot* of heat.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous\_efficacy [wikipedia.org]I've designed and built many lamps using high power/high brightness LEDs.
Any time you design a high power LED lamp you have to heat-sink every single LED otherwise it will burn out.
The obvious solution here is to run heatpipes from the sinks at the back of the LEDs to the lamp housing and/or front lens.
There's no need to add a separate heater, every electronic device *is* a heater.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593704</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593866</id>
	<title>Re:whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>Chaos Incarnate</author>
	<datestamp>1259857440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Umm... you must have some screwed-up traffic lights where you are, relative to around here. The turn signals <i>replace</i> the third light in my area, not <i>supplement</i>.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Umm... you must have some screwed-up traffic lights where you are , relative to around here .
The turn signals replace the third light in my area , not supplement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Umm... you must have some screwed-up traffic lights where you are, relative to around here.
The turn signals replace the third light in my area, not supplement.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596062</id>
	<title>Re:Tell that to</title>
	<author>Blakey Rat</author>
	<datestamp>1259864220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Tell that to the surviving members of Lisa Richter's family.</i></p><p>OH MY GOD! New technology killed one person! Let's go back to caves and hunt mammoths instead. (We'll have to clone the mammoths, but after the cloning, no more technology!!)</p><p>Christ. That line of thought is the reason we have to take off our shoes every time we fly, you know.</p><p>Here's an unpopular, but more realistic, idea: let's assign a dollar value to everybody's life and then we only change society/technology if the death value is greater than the savings. Insurance adjusters already do this every day, so we can put them in charge.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Tell that to the surviving members of Lisa Richter 's family.OH MY GOD !
New technology killed one person !
Let 's go back to caves and hunt mammoths instead .
( We 'll have to clone the mammoths , but after the cloning , no more technology ! ! ) Christ .
That line of thought is the reason we have to take off our shoes every time we fly , you know.Here 's an unpopular , but more realistic , idea : let 's assign a dollar value to everybody 's life and then we only change society/technology if the death value is greater than the savings .
Insurance adjusters already do this every day , so we can put them in charge .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tell that to the surviving members of Lisa Richter's family.OH MY GOD!
New technology killed one person!
Let's go back to caves and hunt mammoths instead.
(We'll have to clone the mammoths, but after the cloning, no more technology!!)Christ.
That line of thought is the reason we have to take off our shoes every time we fly, you know.Here's an unpopular, but more realistic, idea: let's assign a dollar value to everybody's life and then we only change society/technology if the death value is greater than the savings.
Insurance adjusters already do this every day, so we can put them in charge.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593668</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30603362</id>
	<title>CLEAR COVER!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259868420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>BAH!  Just put a clear plastic cover on them! No snow gets in - no snow to melt!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>BAH !
Just put a clear plastic cover on them !
No snow gets in - no snow to melt !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>BAH!
Just put a clear plastic cover on them!
No snow gets in - no snow to melt!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595354</id>
	<title>Re:Simple</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259862060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, the summary does not fully address this issue. The parent indicates only using the heating element when it is cold enough to need it. For a majority of the year, the midwest experiences temperatures well above freezing, so the heating elements would not be active most of the year and the municipalities would still experience the cost savings most of the time (including many winter days).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , the summary does not fully address this issue .
The parent indicates only using the heating element when it is cold enough to need it .
For a majority of the year , the midwest experiences temperatures well above freezing , so the heating elements would not be active most of the year and the municipalities would still experience the cost savings most of the time ( including many winter days ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, the summary does not fully address this issue.
The parent indicates only using the heating element when it is cold enough to need it.
For a majority of the year, the midwest experiences temperatures well above freezing, so the heating elements would not be active most of the year and the municipalities would still experience the cost savings most of the time (including many winter days).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593614</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595000</id>
	<title>Wouldn't light covers work?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259861040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Think about it.  Attaching a sort of overhead fixture to the lights or even wrapping the lights together in a rectangular box with the side displaying the light left open to shield them from the troublesome snow...</p><p>Surely I'm not the only person who thought of something like that...</p><p>I know the cost factor is an issue, but which costs more: paying a bunch of drivers who are suing you because of the safety hazard or spending a little bit extra, which obviously adds up, on protecting the lights to allow drivers to be safer?  Not a difficult question in my opinion, and it should still be cheaper than going back to the old lights that didn't have the problem and costed a lot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Think about it .
Attaching a sort of overhead fixture to the lights or even wrapping the lights together in a rectangular box with the side displaying the light left open to shield them from the troublesome snow...Surely I 'm not the only person who thought of something like that...I know the cost factor is an issue , but which costs more : paying a bunch of drivers who are suing you because of the safety hazard or spending a little bit extra , which obviously adds up , on protecting the lights to allow drivers to be safer ?
Not a difficult question in my opinion , and it should still be cheaper than going back to the old lights that did n't have the problem and costed a lot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Think about it.
Attaching a sort of overhead fixture to the lights or even wrapping the lights together in a rectangular box with the side displaying the light left open to shield them from the troublesome snow...Surely I'm not the only person who thought of something like that...I know the cost factor is an issue, but which costs more: paying a bunch of drivers who are suing you because of the safety hazard or spending a little bit extra, which obviously adds up, on protecting the lights to allow drivers to be safer?
Not a difficult question in my opinion, and it should still be cheaper than going back to the old lights that didn't have the problem and costed a lot.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594642</id>
	<title>A danger...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259859900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, it's true: if a traffic signal is obscured by snow, treat it like an all-way stop. I live in Florida, so all we have are blacked-out traffic signals during power failures.</p><p>But there's a danger:</p><p>Fast north winds mean the southbound signals are covered with snow, but the other directions' signals are visible.</p><p>You're driving south, your signal is covered with snow, and you are unaware that you have a red light. You come to a complete stop, treat it like an all-way stop, and keep going through the intersection. The cross street has a green light, and it's crash time.</p><p>This is also possible if the right lights burn out in the wrong combination. LED traffic signals are more reliable in this matter, so there's a safety improvement right there.</p><p>As for snow and ice melting, I assume that outfitting LED signals with heating devices thermostatically set to 36F is a LOT cheaper than switching back to incandescant beacuse of this "advantage". Even if you live in the coldest climate, you're still better off with fluorescent lighting at home, since incandescent lights are wasteful lights AND wasteful heat sources.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , it 's true : if a traffic signal is obscured by snow , treat it like an all-way stop .
I live in Florida , so all we have are blacked-out traffic signals during power failures.But there 's a danger : Fast north winds mean the southbound signals are covered with snow , but the other directions ' signals are visible.You 're driving south , your signal is covered with snow , and you are unaware that you have a red light .
You come to a complete stop , treat it like an all-way stop , and keep going through the intersection .
The cross street has a green light , and it 's crash time.This is also possible if the right lights burn out in the wrong combination .
LED traffic signals are more reliable in this matter , so there 's a safety improvement right there.As for snow and ice melting , I assume that outfitting LED signals with heating devices thermostatically set to 36F is a LOT cheaper than switching back to incandescant beacuse of this " advantage " .
Even if you live in the coldest climate , you 're still better off with fluorescent lighting at home , since incandescent lights are wasteful lights AND wasteful heat sources .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, it's true: if a traffic signal is obscured by snow, treat it like an all-way stop.
I live in Florida, so all we have are blacked-out traffic signals during power failures.But there's a danger:Fast north winds mean the southbound signals are covered with snow, but the other directions' signals are visible.You're driving south, your signal is covered with snow, and you are unaware that you have a red light.
You come to a complete stop, treat it like an all-way stop, and keep going through the intersection.
The cross street has a green light, and it's crash time.This is also possible if the right lights burn out in the wrong combination.
LED traffic signals are more reliable in this matter, so there's a safety improvement right there.As for snow and ice melting, I assume that outfitting LED signals with heating devices thermostatically set to 36F is a LOT cheaper than switching back to incandescant beacuse of this "advantage".
Even if you live in the coldest climate, you're still better off with fluorescent lighting at home, since incandescent lights are wasteful lights AND wasteful heat sources.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593760</id>
	<title>Re:New design needed?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259857020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, I have seen other places where they simply make them flat and smooth so nothing (or at least snow) won't stick to them. The problem of directionability can be solved with lenses in the front glass</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , I have seen other places where they simply make them flat and smooth so nothing ( or at least snow ) wo n't stick to them .
The problem of directionability can be solved with lenses in the front glass</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, I have seen other places where they simply make them flat and smooth so nothing (or at least snow) won't stick to them.
The problem of directionability can be solved with lenses in the front glass</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596956</id>
	<title>Re:Good Advice</title>
	<author>steelfood</author>
	<datestamp>1259867280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So you stop for a little longer at the light, make sure there's no oncoming traffic (or oncoming traffic is slowing down for a stop), and then go.</p><p>People blow past stop signs too, and for various reasons. Sure, it's wrong, and if anything happens, they're at fault. But you could be dead if you try to force them to yield to you. Do you really want to stake your life on somebody else's behavior?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So you stop for a little longer at the light , make sure there 's no oncoming traffic ( or oncoming traffic is slowing down for a stop ) , and then go.People blow past stop signs too , and for various reasons .
Sure , it 's wrong , and if anything happens , they 're at fault .
But you could be dead if you try to force them to yield to you .
Do you really want to stake your life on somebody else 's behavior ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So you stop for a little longer at the light, make sure there's no oncoming traffic (or oncoming traffic is slowing down for a stop), and then go.People blow past stop signs too, and for various reasons.
Sure, it's wrong, and if anything happens, they're at fault.
But you could be dead if you try to force them to yield to you.
Do you really want to stake your life on somebody else's behavior?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594722</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596086</id>
	<title>They're balking about the price?!</title>
	<author>nsayer</author>
	<datestamp>1259864280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Come on, a thermister set for 32 degrees F and a 5 watt resistor would probably do the trick. How much could that <i>really</i> cost extra?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Come on , a thermister set for 32 degrees F and a 5 watt resistor would probably do the trick .
How much could that really cost extra ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Come on, a thermister set for 32 degrees F and a 5 watt resistor would probably do the trick.
How much could that really cost extra?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596108</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm...</title>
	<author>shrimppesto</author>
	<datestamp>1259864340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, I don't think Denver weather is bad enough to cause this problem.  For this to happen, you need very windy blizzard conditions combined with <i>sustained</i> periods of extreme cold.  This sort of thing happens from time to time in Denver, but is much more common in the Midwest and on the East Coast.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , I do n't think Denver weather is bad enough to cause this problem .
For this to happen , you need very windy blizzard conditions combined with sustained periods of extreme cold .
This sort of thing happens from time to time in Denver , but is much more common in the Midwest and on the East Coast .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, I don't think Denver weather is bad enough to cause this problem.
For this to happen, you need very windy blizzard conditions combined with sustained periods of extreme cold.
This sort of thing happens from time to time in Denver, but is much more common in the Midwest and on the East Coast.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593704</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594666</id>
	<title>Re:Only apply heat when there's snow on the light?</title>
	<author>scorp1us</author>
	<datestamp>1259859960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Rather, put a simple thermocouple and couple transistor stages that control a heating element. When it gets down to close to freezing, the heating element activates. The current required to run the themocouple and first stage trasistor is very small. This way, you only use energy to heat when you have to.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Rather , put a simple thermocouple and couple transistor stages that control a heating element .
When it gets down to close to freezing , the heating element activates .
The current required to run the themocouple and first stage trasistor is very small .
This way , you only use energy to heat when you have to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Rather, put a simple thermocouple and couple transistor stages that control a heating element.
When it gets down to close to freezing, the heating element activates.
The current required to run the themocouple and first stage trasistor is very small.
This way, you only use energy to heat when you have to.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593708</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597950</id>
	<title>Re:Propaganda?</title>
	<author>maxume</author>
	<datestamp>1259871180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It actually looks like it is a bigger problem in warmer weather, as the snow has a chance to melt a bit as it strikes the light and then freeze on, rather than just sliding off (which is what would happen if the light and snow are both below freezing).</p><p>I'm not sure that is what is happening, just pointing out the potential for it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It actually looks like it is a bigger problem in warmer weather , as the snow has a chance to melt a bit as it strikes the light and then freeze on , rather than just sliding off ( which is what would happen if the light and snow are both below freezing ) .I 'm not sure that is what is happening , just pointing out the potential for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It actually looks like it is a bigger problem in warmer weather, as the snow has a chance to melt a bit as it strikes the light and then freeze on, rather than just sliding off (which is what would happen if the light and snow are both below freezing).I'm not sure that is what is happening, just pointing out the potential for it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595180</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597304</id>
	<title>Poor design, lazy engineers</title>
	<author>jjh37997</author>
	<datestamp>1259868600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem is lazy engineers who just changed the bulbs used instead of taking into consideration what that change would do to the total design of the traffic light. A good engineer would understand that without the extra heat produced by the old incandescent bulbs the design of the traffic light would need to be changed to prevent snow buildup.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is lazy engineers who just changed the bulbs used instead of taking into consideration what that change would do to the total design of the traffic light .
A good engineer would understand that without the extra heat produced by the old incandescent bulbs the design of the traffic light would need to be changed to prevent snow buildup .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is lazy engineers who just changed the bulbs used instead of taking into consideration what that change would do to the total design of the traffic light.
A good engineer would understand that without the extra heat produced by the old incandescent bulbs the design of the traffic light would need to be changed to prevent snow buildup.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30599366</id>
	<title>Re:Distinguish top from bottom</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259833860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The driver wasn't colorblind though.  Unless you have a handicap you don't train yourself to compensate for it.  He mistook a green turn for a partly obscured green light, the fact it was in the wrong position might have seemed odd but its not something your going to dwell upon.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The driver was n't colorblind though .
Unless you have a handicap you do n't train yourself to compensate for it .
He mistook a green turn for a partly obscured green light , the fact it was in the wrong position might have seemed odd but its not something your going to dwell upon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The driver wasn't colorblind though.
Unless you have a handicap you don't train yourself to compensate for it.
He mistook a green turn for a partly obscured green light, the fact it was in the wrong position might have seemed odd but its not something your going to dwell upon.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595180</id>
	<title>Re:Propaganda?</title>
	<author>KraftDinner</author>
	<datestamp>1259861640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Exactly, I like in Canada and through the many 9 month winters I've never experienced, seen or even heard of anything remotely close to what this story is demonizing. Maybe we don't use LED lights, I'm not really sure, but I find it odd that this is an uncommon problem in a very cold country.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly , I like in Canada and through the many 9 month winters I 've never experienced , seen or even heard of anything remotely close to what this story is demonizing .
Maybe we do n't use LED lights , I 'm not really sure , but I find it odd that this is an uncommon problem in a very cold country .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly, I like in Canada and through the many 9 month winters I've never experienced, seen or even heard of anything remotely close to what this story is demonizing.
Maybe we don't use LED lights, I'm not really sure, but I find it odd that this is an uncommon problem in a very cold country.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593626</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596570</id>
	<title>Re:Propaganda?</title>
	<author>drooling-dog</author>
	<datestamp>1259865780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had that thought also, and was looking out here for the usual conservative reasoning that since only "liberals" are concerned with energy efficiency, this somehow represents a signature failure of the liberal intellectual elite. Thankfully, almost all of the discussion here is in a practical, engineering-oriented vein, and I can  leave quietly without getting too disgusted.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had that thought also , and was looking out here for the usual conservative reasoning that since only " liberals " are concerned with energy efficiency , this somehow represents a signature failure of the liberal intellectual elite .
Thankfully , almost all of the discussion here is in a practical , engineering-oriented vein , and I can leave quietly without getting too disgusted .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had that thought also, and was looking out here for the usual conservative reasoning that since only "liberals" are concerned with energy efficiency, this somehow represents a signature failure of the liberal intellectual elite.
Thankfully, almost all of the discussion here is in a practical, engineering-oriented vein, and I can  leave quietly without getting too disgusted.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593626</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596818</id>
	<title>Re:Good Advice</title>
	<author>AK Marc</author>
	<datestamp>1259866740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>I can understand if it's dark and you don't see the traffic lights because they're covered with snow, but if the lights at the intersection aren't working, that doesn't mean the light is green.</i> <br> <br>And if one sides lights are completely clear, and green, should they go?  How about if the other side is coming, they have the "red" completely filled so there is no red light coming out at all.  But the left-turn isn't as filled.  It has a dusting such that it obscures the fact it's an arrow, but is still clearly green.  So the person approaching sees one light out of three working, and a green glow from that.<br> <br>Are you asserting that you should stop at an intersection where you are facing a green light?  Because that's a possible failure mode, and that's why people are so concerned.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I can understand if it 's dark and you do n't see the traffic lights because they 're covered with snow , but if the lights at the intersection are n't working , that does n't mean the light is green .
And if one sides lights are completely clear , and green , should they go ?
How about if the other side is coming , they have the " red " completely filled so there is no red light coming out at all .
But the left-turn is n't as filled .
It has a dusting such that it obscures the fact it 's an arrow , but is still clearly green .
So the person approaching sees one light out of three working , and a green glow from that .
Are you asserting that you should stop at an intersection where you are facing a green light ?
Because that 's a possible failure mode , and that 's why people are so concerned .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can understand if it's dark and you don't see the traffic lights because they're covered with snow, but if the lights at the intersection aren't working, that doesn't mean the light is green.
And if one sides lights are completely clear, and green, should they go?
How about if the other side is coming, they have the "red" completely filled so there is no red light coming out at all.
But the left-turn isn't as filled.
It has a dusting such that it obscures the fact it's an arrow, but is still clearly green.
So the person approaching sees one light out of three working, and a green glow from that.
Are you asserting that you should stop at an intersection where you are facing a green light?
Because that's a possible failure mode, and that's why people are so concerned.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593470</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593940</id>
	<title>Ugh</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259857620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is a simple problem that can be solved with a small amount of engineering and a little common sense.  Obstructed traffic lights do not cause accidents, poor/unattentive drivers cause accidents.  You should always be aware of the surroundings and be ready to react.  I always look both ways when crossing a one way street, because it is the reckless driver going the wrong way that causes the problem.  Yellow light means prepare to stop (and clear the intersection), not speed up to cross (or enter the intersection).</p><p>The US NEEDS to expire driving licenses and require re-testing every 5 or 10 years.  Plus there needs to be stricter testing.  This will keep unsafe drivers (yeah you grandma) off the road.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a simple problem that can be solved with a small amount of engineering and a little common sense .
Obstructed traffic lights do not cause accidents , poor/unattentive drivers cause accidents .
You should always be aware of the surroundings and be ready to react .
I always look both ways when crossing a one way street , because it is the reckless driver going the wrong way that causes the problem .
Yellow light means prepare to stop ( and clear the intersection ) , not speed up to cross ( or enter the intersection ) .The US NEEDS to expire driving licenses and require re-testing every 5 or 10 years .
Plus there needs to be stricter testing .
This will keep unsafe drivers ( yeah you grandma ) off the road .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a simple problem that can be solved with a small amount of engineering and a little common sense.
Obstructed traffic lights do not cause accidents, poor/unattentive drivers cause accidents.
You should always be aware of the surroundings and be ready to react.
I always look both ways when crossing a one way street, because it is the reckless driver going the wrong way that causes the problem.
Yellow light means prepare to stop (and clear the intersection), not speed up to cross (or enter the intersection).The US NEEDS to expire driving licenses and require re-testing every 5 or 10 years.
Plus there needs to be stricter testing.
This will keep unsafe drivers (yeah you grandma) off the road.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594492</id>
	<title>Re:duh</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259859360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>why don't they just angle the lenses downwards with less of a hood?  problem solved.</p></div><p>I'm going out on a limb here, but you probably don't live somewhere that gets a lot of snow.  Don't get me wrong, I think your idea would work in a lot of scenarios but not all of them.  Where I live, we get the odd blizzard that puts a thick layer of ice and snow on everything.  The wind pushes sticky snow at seemingly impossible angles preventing you from making out any lights or signs.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>why do n't they just angle the lenses downwards with less of a hood ?
problem solved.I 'm going out on a limb here , but you probably do n't live somewhere that gets a lot of snow .
Do n't get me wrong , I think your idea would work in a lot of scenarios but not all of them .
Where I live , we get the odd blizzard that puts a thick layer of ice and snow on everything .
The wind pushes sticky snow at seemingly impossible angles preventing you from making out any lights or signs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>why don't they just angle the lenses downwards with less of a hood?
problem solved.I'm going out on a limb here, but you probably don't live somewhere that gets a lot of snow.
Don't get me wrong, I think your idea would work in a lot of scenarios but not all of them.
Where I live, we get the odd blizzard that puts a thick layer of ice and snow on everything.
The wind pushes sticky snow at seemingly impossible angles preventing you from making out any lights or signs.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593490</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595756</id>
	<title>Re:They bought the lights to save money...</title>
	<author>horatio</author>
	<datestamp>1259863200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The cost of running the heaters (assuming they use the same amount of energy as the old incandescent bulbs) would still be significantly less, because you're only running the heaters a fraction of the time that the incandescent bulbs were burning.<br> <br>
The cost of the heater mechanism and trigger itself would further offset some of the cost savings of switching to LEDs, but all of it?</htmltext>
<tokenext>The cost of running the heaters ( assuming they use the same amount of energy as the old incandescent bulbs ) would still be significantly less , because you 're only running the heaters a fraction of the time that the incandescent bulbs were burning .
The cost of the heater mechanism and trigger itself would further offset some of the cost savings of switching to LEDs , but all of it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The cost of running the heaters (assuming they use the same amount of energy as the old incandescent bulbs) would still be significantly less, because you're only running the heaters a fraction of the time that the incandescent bulbs were burning.
The cost of the heater mechanism and trigger itself would further offset some of the cost savings of switching to LEDs, but all of it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593716</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595640</id>
	<title>Re:Simple</title>
	<author>McGruber</author>
	<datestamp>1259862900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>So, against a whole year of savings, they can't accept five or six days of artificial heating?  </p></div><p>Haven't been to Wisconsin, have you?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>So , against a whole year of savings , they ca n't accept five or six days of artificial heating ?
Have n't been to Wisconsin , have you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, against a whole year of savings, they can't accept five or six days of artificial heating?
Haven't been to Wisconsin, have you?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594576</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594362</id>
	<title>Re:I don't get the colorblind comment...</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1259859060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You know who complains about light aaffecting the color blind? not the color blind. Worse case scenario? go when everyone else goes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You know who complains about light aaffecting the color blind ?
not the color blind .
Worse case scenario ?
go when everyone else goes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know who complains about light aaffecting the color blind?
not the color blind.
Worse case scenario?
go when everyone else goes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593772</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594718</id>
	<title>Re:I don't get the colorblind comment...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259860140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>We were discussing these recently at the office &mdash; several folks in the building are red/green color blind and different street lights are differently distinguishable.</p></div><p>I had trouble parsing that sentence. Is the statement that the colorblind can tell the difference between LED's and bulbs? Because the non-colorblind can also.</p><p>Is the statement that the colorblind can tell the difference between the red and green lights? Because that's why they have a standard. The red one is always in one of two places. The green one is always opposite that one. Really, if they changed the lights to a pure white, they would still work for the non-colorblind.</p><p>So yeah, 'say what?'</p></div><p>Being red/green colorblind, maybe I could enlighten you a little. The LEDs have actually been better in most cases for distinguishing color than the old style lights. The older lights were just a white light that had a green tinted filter over the top. Some of the filters show up nice and bright green, while others just look off-white. The LEDs, generally, have better color reproduction and have made it a little easier to determine color. I do think that we look at light placement more often than we look at color simply because that is how we trained ourselves, just like most other people look at color and not placement.</p><p>I would love to see a day where we move away from red and green and use a color combination that doesn't affect <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color\_blindness#Prevalence" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">7-10\%</a> [wikipedia.org] of the male population. Something like blue and yellow would be just as effective, but I'm sure that since we've been using red and green for over <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic\_light#History" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">150 years</a> [wikipedia.org], we won't be changing anytime soon. There are a lot of jobs that are unavailable to a large population simply because we insist on using red and green instead of choosing other colors.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/rant</p><p>I hope this helps you a little.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We were discussing these recently at the office    several folks in the building are red/green color blind and different street lights are differently distinguishable.I had trouble parsing that sentence .
Is the statement that the colorblind can tell the difference between LED 's and bulbs ?
Because the non-colorblind can also.Is the statement that the colorblind can tell the difference between the red and green lights ?
Because that 's why they have a standard .
The red one is always in one of two places .
The green one is always opposite that one .
Really , if they changed the lights to a pure white , they would still work for the non-colorblind.So yeah , 'say what ?
'Being red/green colorblind , maybe I could enlighten you a little .
The LEDs have actually been better in most cases for distinguishing color than the old style lights .
The older lights were just a white light that had a green tinted filter over the top .
Some of the filters show up nice and bright green , while others just look off-white .
The LEDs , generally , have better color reproduction and have made it a little easier to determine color .
I do think that we look at light placement more often than we look at color simply because that is how we trained ourselves , just like most other people look at color and not placement.I would love to see a day where we move away from red and green and use a color combination that does n't affect 7-10 \ % [ wikipedia.org ] of the male population .
Something like blue and yellow would be just as effective , but I 'm sure that since we 've been using red and green for over 150 years [ wikipedia.org ] , we wo n't be changing anytime soon .
There are a lot of jobs that are unavailable to a large population simply because we insist on using red and green instead of choosing other colors .
/rantI hope this helps you a little .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We were discussing these recently at the office — several folks in the building are red/green color blind and different street lights are differently distinguishable.I had trouble parsing that sentence.
Is the statement that the colorblind can tell the difference between LED's and bulbs?
Because the non-colorblind can also.Is the statement that the colorblind can tell the difference between the red and green lights?
Because that's why they have a standard.
The red one is always in one of two places.
The green one is always opposite that one.
Really, if they changed the lights to a pure white, they would still work for the non-colorblind.So yeah, 'say what?
'Being red/green colorblind, maybe I could enlighten you a little.
The LEDs have actually been better in most cases for distinguishing color than the old style lights.
The older lights were just a white light that had a green tinted filter over the top.
Some of the filters show up nice and bright green, while others just look off-white.
The LEDs, generally, have better color reproduction and have made it a little easier to determine color.
I do think that we look at light placement more often than we look at color simply because that is how we trained ourselves, just like most other people look at color and not placement.I would love to see a day where we move away from red and green and use a color combination that doesn't affect 7-10\% [wikipedia.org] of the male population.
Something like blue and yellow would be just as effective, but I'm sure that since we've been using red and green for over 150 years [wikipedia.org], we won't be changing anytime soon.
There are a lot of jobs that are unavailable to a large population simply because we insist on using red and green instead of choosing other colors.
/rantI hope this helps you a little.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593772</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597740</id>
	<title>Re:If ND doesn't have this problem...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259870400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've never seen the problem here in Wisconsin until this storm though. This was a barely 32 degreee heavy snow in high winds that caused the issue. If it was 2-3 degrees cooler, it never would have stuck. Anything that was cold enough not to melt snow had snow stuck to it, even the antenna on my car had half an inch of snow in the direction the wind was blowing from. It was very strange seeing literally EVERYTHING with snow stuck to it. (and very pretty)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've never seen the problem here in Wisconsin until this storm though .
This was a barely 32 degreee heavy snow in high winds that caused the issue .
If it was 2-3 degrees cooler , it never would have stuck .
Anything that was cold enough not to melt snow had snow stuck to it , even the antenna on my car had half an inch of snow in the direction the wind was blowing from .
It was very strange seeing literally EVERYTHING with snow stuck to it .
( and very pretty )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've never seen the problem here in Wisconsin until this storm though.
This was a barely 32 degreee heavy snow in high winds that caused the issue.
If it was 2-3 degrees cooler, it never would have stuck.
Anything that was cold enough not to melt snow had snow stuck to it, even the antenna on my car had half an inch of snow in the direction the wind was blowing from.
It was very strange seeing literally EVERYTHING with snow stuck to it.
(and very pretty)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594336</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594272</id>
	<title>Re:Only apply heat when there's snow on the light?</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1259858820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It depends.<br>This only haoppen once or twice a year. So if your system isn't fully automated so you can turn in on and off from a central point, you need to spend money sending crew out to turn them on, and then off.</p><p>I wonder how much energy they use. could a solar array and a battery fix that problem? hmm.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It depends.This only haoppen once or twice a year .
So if your system is n't fully automated so you can turn in on and off from a central point , you need to spend money sending crew out to turn them on , and then off.I wonder how much energy they use .
could a solar array and a battery fix that problem ?
hmm .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It depends.This only haoppen once or twice a year.
So if your system isn't fully automated so you can turn in on and off from a central point, you need to spend money sending crew out to turn them on, and then off.I wonder how much energy they use.
could a solar array and a battery fix that problem?
hmm.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593708</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593732</id>
	<title>Re:heating element</title>
	<author>oldspewey</author>
	<datestamp>1259856960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Better still, why not include a heating element that turns on when it's 2C or below?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Better still , why not include a heating element that turns on when it 's 2C or below ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Better still, why not include a heating element that turns on when it's 2C or below?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593488</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597764</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259870520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're missing the obvious: Colorado snow is exceptionally dry.  It usually isn't sticky enough to make snowballs, so sticking to vertical surfaces is not usually a problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're missing the obvious : Colorado snow is exceptionally dry .
It usually is n't sticky enough to make snowballs , so sticking to vertical surfaces is not usually a problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're missing the obvious: Colorado snow is exceptionally dry.
It usually isn't sticky enough to make snowballs, so sticking to vertical surfaces is not usually a problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593704</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593428</id>
	<title>Too bad we don't have rules to deal with this</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259855880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh that's right... we do!  If you get to an intersection and the light isn't working or isn't visible, you treat it like a four-way stop.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh that 's right... we do !
If you get to an intersection and the light is n't working or is n't visible , you treat it like a four-way stop .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh that's right... we do!
If you get to an intersection and the light isn't working or isn't visible, you treat it like a four-way stop.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594190</id>
	<title>Isn't this about design?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259858520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not green bashing, as it is devolving into?  It sounds like the old design had some largely unrealized benefits.  This doesn't mean that LED street lights are universally crap, or that 'green' thinking cities are dumb.  It is about a feature of the old design that was unrealized.  Changing a design frequently means you find features you didn't realize you had in the old design.  Those features weren't looked for by the cities, now they need them.  I'm not sure whose fault this is.  Although if the manufacturer realized it ahead of time, they would probably develop a snow proof/melting version and charge a bit more for them, and advertise the heck out of them to the appropriate audience.</p><p>It does however bring up a new 'feature' in traffic lights that I've been noticing.  They seem to be pushing limited angle of view models onto the streets around here (N. TX).  A reasonable idea if implemented well, but many are set up such that you cannot see the color of the light until you are precisely at the limit line, meaning you need to make the decision to turn or not blind, or come to a complete stop on green.  Really annoying.  Also, I've noticed some of the new models have the opposite problem, too reflective, such that when the sun is setting, there is a red light that is brighter when not lit, than the adjacent green when lit.  It has the result of the driver seeing both red AND green lights at the same intersection.</p><p>Basically, these things end up being more than glorified light bulbs, their design turns out to be a little harder than the arm chair engineers might have expected.</p><p>Of course the frequency of seeing LED lights with a portion of the LEDs out, after less than a year in service, suggests that there are also some quality issues out there to work out still.</p><p>-sk</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not green bashing , as it is devolving into ?
It sounds like the old design had some largely unrealized benefits .
This does n't mean that LED street lights are universally crap , or that 'green ' thinking cities are dumb .
It is about a feature of the old design that was unrealized .
Changing a design frequently means you find features you did n't realize you had in the old design .
Those features were n't looked for by the cities , now they need them .
I 'm not sure whose fault this is .
Although if the manufacturer realized it ahead of time , they would probably develop a snow proof/melting version and charge a bit more for them , and advertise the heck out of them to the appropriate audience.It does however bring up a new 'feature ' in traffic lights that I 've been noticing .
They seem to be pushing limited angle of view models onto the streets around here ( N. TX ) . A reasonable idea if implemented well , but many are set up such that you can not see the color of the light until you are precisely at the limit line , meaning you need to make the decision to turn or not blind , or come to a complete stop on green .
Really annoying .
Also , I 've noticed some of the new models have the opposite problem , too reflective , such that when the sun is setting , there is a red light that is brighter when not lit , than the adjacent green when lit .
It has the result of the driver seeing both red AND green lights at the same intersection.Basically , these things end up being more than glorified light bulbs , their design turns out to be a little harder than the arm chair engineers might have expected.Of course the frequency of seeing LED lights with a portion of the LEDs out , after less than a year in service , suggests that there are also some quality issues out there to work out still.-sk</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not green bashing, as it is devolving into?
It sounds like the old design had some largely unrealized benefits.
This doesn't mean that LED street lights are universally crap, or that 'green' thinking cities are dumb.
It is about a feature of the old design that was unrealized.
Changing a design frequently means you find features you didn't realize you had in the old design.
Those features weren't looked for by the cities, now they need them.
I'm not sure whose fault this is.
Although if the manufacturer realized it ahead of time, they would probably develop a snow proof/melting version and charge a bit more for them, and advertise the heck out of them to the appropriate audience.It does however bring up a new 'feature' in traffic lights that I've been noticing.
They seem to be pushing limited angle of view models onto the streets around here (N. TX).  A reasonable idea if implemented well, but many are set up such that you cannot see the color of the light until you are precisely at the limit line, meaning you need to make the decision to turn or not blind, or come to a complete stop on green.
Really annoying.
Also, I've noticed some of the new models have the opposite problem, too reflective, such that when the sun is setting, there is a red light that is brighter when not lit, than the adjacent green when lit.
It has the result of the driver seeing both red AND green lights at the same intersection.Basically, these things end up being more than glorified light bulbs, their design turns out to be a little harder than the arm chair engineers might have expected.Of course the frequency of seeing LED lights with a portion of the LEDs out, after less than a year in service, suggests that there are also some quality issues out there to work out still.-sk</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596760</id>
	<title>Re:whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>MiniMike</author>
	<datestamp>1259866500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The ones that I have seen appear to be drop-in replacements for the old incandescent bulbs.  Same design for outer casing, clusters, etc.  The individual LED lights are probably not programmable.  Also, I can't see any advantage here to having one light perform two functions, unless you own a towing service or auto body shop.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The ones that I have seen appear to be drop-in replacements for the old incandescent bulbs .
Same design for outer casing , clusters , etc .
The individual LED lights are probably not programmable .
Also , I ca n't see any advantage here to having one light perform two functions , unless you own a towing service or auto body shop .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The ones that I have seen appear to be drop-in replacements for the old incandescent bulbs.
Same design for outer casing, clusters, etc.
The individual LED lights are probably not programmable.
Also, I can't see any advantage here to having one light perform two functions, unless you own a towing service or auto body shop.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594318</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30601666</id>
	<title>I see your problem</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259849400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>And give you <a href="http://n1.cdn.spikedhumor.com/1/749000/195035\_3604\_1.jpg" title="spikedhumor.com" rel="nofollow">an answer</a> [spikedhumor.com].</htmltext>
<tokenext>And give you an answer [ spikedhumor.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And give you an answer [spikedhumor.com].</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30599370</id>
	<title>Re:Tell that to</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1259833860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Accidents happen. This accident could well have happened even if the light had been incandescant.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Accidents happen .
This accident could well have happened even if the light had been incandescant .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Accidents happen.
This accident could well have happened even if the light had been incandescant.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593668</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594546</id>
	<title>Re:Only apply heat when there's snow on the light?</title>
	<author>Idbar</author>
	<datestamp>1259859480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Something that doesn't cease to amaze me is the DMV. Here in Delaware, the DMV doesn't give the practical driving exam if there is the slight chance of rain. <br>No wonder why people don't drive well on snow, if they don't get to take their exams during inclement weather. And there, you see people driving at 75mph during a storm.<br> <br>
IMHO, people should be tested to see if they really know how to drive in hazardous conditions.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Something that does n't cease to amaze me is the DMV .
Here in Delaware , the DMV does n't give the practical driving exam if there is the slight chance of rain .
No wonder why people do n't drive well on snow , if they do n't get to take their exams during inclement weather .
And there , you see people driving at 75mph during a storm .
IMHO , people should be tested to see if they really know how to drive in hazardous conditions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Something that doesn't cease to amaze me is the DMV.
Here in Delaware, the DMV doesn't give the practical driving exam if there is the slight chance of rain.
No wonder why people don't drive well on snow, if they don't get to take their exams during inclement weather.
And there, you see people driving at 75mph during a storm.
IMHO, people should be tested to see if they really know how to drive in hazardous conditions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593708</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595052</id>
	<title>a solution - a few LEDs act as light sensors</title>
	<author>Locutus</author>
	<datestamp>1259861220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>the snow piled up on the lower edge of the sun shield should reflect back way more of the LED light so they just need to add a simple circuit( micro ) to use a few of the existing LEDs as sensors and if snow is sensed, temporarily enable either a heating element/resistor or figure out some way to add a little more heat to the current operation.<br><br>this only uses extra power when needed but it does require a new design. IMO the companies who sell these LED lights as a full kit should pay for this since it is a design flaw because it does not replace the existing/old lights features.<br><br>LoB</htmltext>
<tokenext>the snow piled up on the lower edge of the sun shield should reflect back way more of the LED light so they just need to add a simple circuit ( micro ) to use a few of the existing LEDs as sensors and if snow is sensed , temporarily enable either a heating element/resistor or figure out some way to add a little more heat to the current operation.this only uses extra power when needed but it does require a new design .
IMO the companies who sell these LED lights as a full kit should pay for this since it is a design flaw because it does not replace the existing/old lights features.LoB</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the snow piled up on the lower edge of the sun shield should reflect back way more of the LED light so they just need to add a simple circuit( micro ) to use a few of the existing LEDs as sensors and if snow is sensed, temporarily enable either a heating element/resistor or figure out some way to add a little more heat to the current operation.this only uses extra power when needed but it does require a new design.
IMO the companies who sell these LED lights as a full kit should pay for this since it is a design flaw because it does not replace the existing/old lights features.LoB</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596938</id>
	<title>Re:In Canada...</title>
	<author>omnichad</author>
	<datestamp>1259867220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah.  Lights in the US have hoods too.  That does nothing when snow blows horizontally.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah .
Lights in the US have hoods too .
That does nothing when snow blows horizontally .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah.
Lights in the US have hoods too.
That does nothing when snow blows horizontally.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594240</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595670</id>
	<title>Re:Simple</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259862960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or even simpler, put both types of bulbs there and switch "mode" from central place (which already exists and operates traffic lights).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or even simpler , put both types of bulbs there and switch " mode " from central place ( which already exists and operates traffic lights ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or even simpler, put both types of bulbs there and switch "mode" from central place (which already exists and operates traffic lights).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593510</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593470</id>
	<title>Good Advice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259856000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In Wisconsin, snow blanketed LED traffic lights in some towns, leading to crashes at intersections where drivers weren't sure whether to stop or go</p></div><p>
If you're not sure to stop or go, the answer is "stop". I can understand if it's dark and you don't see the traffic lights because they're covered with snow, but if the lights at the intersection aren't working, that doesn't mean the light is green. It means stop and go when it's safe to.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In Wisconsin , snow blanketed LED traffic lights in some towns , leading to crashes at intersections where drivers were n't sure whether to stop or go If you 're not sure to stop or go , the answer is " stop " .
I can understand if it 's dark and you do n't see the traffic lights because they 're covered with snow , but if the lights at the intersection are n't working , that does n't mean the light is green .
It means stop and go when it 's safe to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In Wisconsin, snow blanketed LED traffic lights in some towns, leading to crashes at intersections where drivers weren't sure whether to stop or go
If you're not sure to stop or go, the answer is "stop".
I can understand if it's dark and you don't see the traffic lights because they're covered with snow, but if the lights at the intersection aren't working, that doesn't mean the light is green.
It means stop and go when it's safe to.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594680</id>
	<title>Re:Double whammy</title>
	<author>QuantumRiff</author>
	<datestamp>1259860020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>HAHA  I'll gladly take a few hundred thousand Ohioans driving in the snow, than a handful of people travelling north from Florida for the holidays, driving in the snow!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>HAHA I 'll gladly take a few hundred thousand Ohioans driving in the snow , than a handful of people travelling north from Florida for the holidays , driving in the snow !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>HAHA  I'll gladly take a few hundred thousand Ohioans driving in the snow, than a handful of people travelling north from Florida for the holidays, driving in the snow!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593660</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595628</id>
	<title>Re:Good Advice</title>
	<author>Blakey Rat</author>
	<datestamp>1259862900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Except snow only fills the lights from one side. Maybe two if the wind shifts, but most likely just one... that means the light's working fine for 3 cars at the intersection, and you're the only one who thinks it's failed and should be treated like a 4-way stop. It's not like a power failure, where it's obvious to everybody what went wrong and what to do.</p><p>This isn't necessarily a problem, just a very different situation from the one you describe. I'm also guessing you live in an area with no snow.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Except snow only fills the lights from one side .
Maybe two if the wind shifts , but most likely just one... that means the light 's working fine for 3 cars at the intersection , and you 're the only one who thinks it 's failed and should be treated like a 4-way stop .
It 's not like a power failure , where it 's obvious to everybody what went wrong and what to do.This is n't necessarily a problem , just a very different situation from the one you describe .
I 'm also guessing you live in an area with no snow .
: P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except snow only fills the lights from one side.
Maybe two if the wind shifts, but most likely just one... that means the light's working fine for 3 cars at the intersection, and you're the only one who thinks it's failed and should be treated like a 4-way stop.
It's not like a power failure, where it's obvious to everybody what went wrong and what to do.This isn't necessarily a problem, just a very different situation from the one you describe.
I'm also guessing you live in an area with no snow.
:P</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593470</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30598756</id>
	<title>Newer != better</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259831040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If it matters, I live in Illinois and am familiar with these lights.  It bothers me how this is another instance of everyone beating the "newer is better!" drum, where dumb decisions then get made.</p><p>Why would you change a traffic light system that is time-tested, and has worked well for decades?  It's almost comical how they thought that "the new system would save energy and money!"  For starters, Illinois is in debt, and struggling to balance their annual budget without rasing taxes (which the governor thinks will have to happen anyway); but, they gave out $10,000,000 to rip down working traffic lights to put these up.  Fantastic.  Why not tear up my sidewalk too and put in a sidewalk with a newer concrete formula.  Secondly, what do we do with these old, working systems?  Landfill?  Great; sounds very "green" to me.  Even recycling them costs energy/money.  Thirdly, when a repair is needed, which do you think is cheaper, some on/off electronics/relays or PWM LED drivers?  (Just a thought, when you see flashing reds after a storm, it often means a power surge has taken out the controller system.)  And which is cheaper, a new light bulb, or an entire LED array where one LED has failed?  Fourthly, if you RTFA, a city of 30,000 ends up saving $50 a month in electricity.  $50?!  That's not worth lifting a pen to sign a work order!  How much is that city going to save (again RTFA) when they dispatch the workers (24/7 no less) to occasionally knock the snow off the lights?  So, once or twice a year and all of those savings are blown!  Putting heaters on them makes the system more failure prone, more complicated to deal with, and will cost the same money as just a bulb!!</p><p>And if you need a "fifthly", I've seen no less than two of these lights in different cities flickering in sub-zero weather.  The LEDs (or their supporting electronics) couldn't hold up to the cold.</p><p>I say leave the simple and old alone...  Make your "improvements" elsewhere in the world.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If it matters , I live in Illinois and am familiar with these lights .
It bothers me how this is another instance of everyone beating the " newer is better !
" drum , where dumb decisions then get made.Why would you change a traffic light system that is time-tested , and has worked well for decades ?
It 's almost comical how they thought that " the new system would save energy and money !
" For starters , Illinois is in debt , and struggling to balance their annual budget without rasing taxes ( which the governor thinks will have to happen anyway ) ; but , they gave out $ 10,000,000 to rip down working traffic lights to put these up .
Fantastic. Why not tear up my sidewalk too and put in a sidewalk with a newer concrete formula .
Secondly , what do we do with these old , working systems ?
Landfill ? Great ; sounds very " green " to me .
Even recycling them costs energy/money .
Thirdly , when a repair is needed , which do you think is cheaper , some on/off electronics/relays or PWM LED drivers ?
( Just a thought , when you see flashing reds after a storm , it often means a power surge has taken out the controller system .
) And which is cheaper , a new light bulb , or an entire LED array where one LED has failed ?
Fourthly , if you RTFA , a city of 30,000 ends up saving $ 50 a month in electricity .
$ 50 ? ! That 's not worth lifting a pen to sign a work order !
How much is that city going to save ( again RTFA ) when they dispatch the workers ( 24/7 no less ) to occasionally knock the snow off the lights ?
So , once or twice a year and all of those savings are blown !
Putting heaters on them makes the system more failure prone , more complicated to deal with , and will cost the same money as just a bulb !
! And if you need a " fifthly " , I 've seen no less than two of these lights in different cities flickering in sub-zero weather .
The LEDs ( or their supporting electronics ) could n't hold up to the cold.I say leave the simple and old alone... Make your " improvements " elsewhere in the world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If it matters, I live in Illinois and am familiar with these lights.
It bothers me how this is another instance of everyone beating the "newer is better!
" drum, where dumb decisions then get made.Why would you change a traffic light system that is time-tested, and has worked well for decades?
It's almost comical how they thought that "the new system would save energy and money!
"  For starters, Illinois is in debt, and struggling to balance their annual budget without rasing taxes (which the governor thinks will have to happen anyway); but, they gave out $10,000,000 to rip down working traffic lights to put these up.
Fantastic.  Why not tear up my sidewalk too and put in a sidewalk with a newer concrete formula.
Secondly, what do we do with these old, working systems?
Landfill?  Great; sounds very "green" to me.
Even recycling them costs energy/money.
Thirdly, when a repair is needed, which do you think is cheaper, some on/off electronics/relays or PWM LED drivers?
(Just a thought, when you see flashing reds after a storm, it often means a power surge has taken out the controller system.
)  And which is cheaper, a new light bulb, or an entire LED array where one LED has failed?
Fourthly, if you RTFA, a city of 30,000 ends up saving $50 a month in electricity.
$50?!  That's not worth lifting a pen to sign a work order!
How much is that city going to save (again RTFA) when they dispatch the workers (24/7 no less) to occasionally knock the snow off the lights?
So, once or twice a year and all of those savings are blown!
Putting heaters on them makes the system more failure prone, more complicated to deal with, and will cost the same money as just a bulb!
!And if you need a "fifthly", I've seen no less than two of these lights in different cities flickering in sub-zero weather.
The LEDs (or their supporting electronics) couldn't hold up to the cold.I say leave the simple and old alone...  Make your "improvements" elsewhere in the world.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594454</id>
	<title>Re:whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>dkleinsc</author>
	<datestamp>1259859240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Whether or not the guy recognized the green light, the very first rule of driving in most states is that your obligation to take reasonable measures prevent accidents trumps most other traffic laws. If you have a green light, and someone is in the way, that doesn't give you permission to slam into him.</p><p>And if he couldn't slow down or stop enough to make the turn possible, he was driving way too fast.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Whether or not the guy recognized the green light , the very first rule of driving in most states is that your obligation to take reasonable measures prevent accidents trumps most other traffic laws .
If you have a green light , and someone is in the way , that does n't give you permission to slam into him.And if he could n't slow down or stop enough to make the turn possible , he was driving way too fast .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Whether or not the guy recognized the green light, the very first rule of driving in most states is that your obligation to take reasonable measures prevent accidents trumps most other traffic laws.
If you have a green light, and someone is in the way, that doesn't give you permission to slam into him.And if he couldn't slow down or stop enough to make the turn possible, he was driving way too fast.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30598412</id>
	<title>Pull Em</title>
	<author>CranberryKing</author>
	<datestamp>1259872800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And put back the old ones. If the lights aren't 100\% reliable, then what is the point? Save energy? I can put in a stop sign that won't use any energy if that's the first priority. But if I want a signaling system to be more (traffic) efficient, they better work and work safely. Otherwise it's a stupid idea. Put the old ones back I say. They did their job.</htmltext>
<tokenext>And put back the old ones .
If the lights are n't 100 \ % reliable , then what is the point ?
Save energy ?
I can put in a stop sign that wo n't use any energy if that 's the first priority .
But if I want a signaling system to be more ( traffic ) efficient , they better work and work safely .
Otherwise it 's a stupid idea .
Put the old ones back I say .
They did their job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And put back the old ones.
If the lights aren't 100\% reliable, then what is the point?
Save energy?
I can put in a stop sign that won't use any energy if that's the first priority.
But if I want a signaling system to be more (traffic) efficient, they better work and work safely.
Otherwise it's a stupid idea.
Put the old ones back I say.
They did their job.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30600530</id>
	<title>I hate em</title>
	<author>Potent</author>
	<datestamp>1259840760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At intersections that are not brightly lit by street lighting, the LED traffic signals are completely blinding to drivers at night.  I actually find myself closing my eyes because of the glare so that my eyes won't have to readjust for the pitch black road on the other side of the light.</p><p>I guess it won't be a problem if the sucker is covered by snow and ice.</p><p>Just another stupid greenie wacko thing to piss us off and get us killed.</p><p>Highs in the 20's F in Nashville, Tennessee in a few days (home of Al Gore).  Average high temp: 46F</p><p>Eat me, you Global Warming morons.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At intersections that are not brightly lit by street lighting , the LED traffic signals are completely blinding to drivers at night .
I actually find myself closing my eyes because of the glare so that my eyes wo n't have to readjust for the pitch black road on the other side of the light.I guess it wo n't be a problem if the sucker is covered by snow and ice.Just another stupid greenie wacko thing to piss us off and get us killed.Highs in the 20 's F in Nashville , Tennessee in a few days ( home of Al Gore ) .
Average high temp : 46FEat me , you Global Warming morons .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At intersections that are not brightly lit by street lighting, the LED traffic signals are completely blinding to drivers at night.
I actually find myself closing my eyes because of the glare so that my eyes won't have to readjust for the pitch black road on the other side of the light.I guess it won't be a problem if the sucker is covered by snow and ice.Just another stupid greenie wacko thing to piss us off and get us killed.Highs in the 20's F in Nashville, Tennessee in a few days (home of Al Gore).
Average high temp: 46FEat me, you Global Warming morons.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594248</id>
	<title>Agreed.</title>
	<author>zippthorne</author>
	<datestamp>1259858700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm a "do something about GW <em>now</em>" skeptic, but even I can see that the LED lights are better.  Way less energy usage, and the colors are much, much more distinct due to being nearly monochrome.</p><p>It seems that lights in the mid-west however were not properly designed.  You can't just take a stack of LEDs, stick them on a PCB with a current-limiting resistor and call it done.  Especially if you're going to be charging real money for the lamp.  You have to consider the requirements of the application you're installing them in.</p><p>IOW, if it gets cold and there is snow, then you wind a wire through the PCB to use for active heating when it gets cold.  A robust, but somewhat wasteful mechanism would be to use a temperature controller to maintain a degree or two above freezing: snow and icing would be prevented, increasing the longevity of the light, at a cost of some wasted volt-amps during the winter months.  More savings could be realized by adding a "snow expected" flag to whatever control system runs the lights.  And cop time could be saved if it could be set remotely.</p><p>This is a design problem, not a "green tech" problem.  Unless you accept the premise that all "green" tech must be the most na&#239;ve implementation available.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm a " do something about GW now " skeptic , but even I can see that the LED lights are better .
Way less energy usage , and the colors are much , much more distinct due to being nearly monochrome.It seems that lights in the mid-west however were not properly designed .
You ca n't just take a stack of LEDs , stick them on a PCB with a current-limiting resistor and call it done .
Especially if you 're going to be charging real money for the lamp .
You have to consider the requirements of the application you 're installing them in.IOW , if it gets cold and there is snow , then you wind a wire through the PCB to use for active heating when it gets cold .
A robust , but somewhat wasteful mechanism would be to use a temperature controller to maintain a degree or two above freezing : snow and icing would be prevented , increasing the longevity of the light , at a cost of some wasted volt-amps during the winter months .
More savings could be realized by adding a " snow expected " flag to whatever control system runs the lights .
And cop time could be saved if it could be set remotely.This is a design problem , not a " green tech " problem .
Unless you accept the premise that all " green " tech must be the most na   ve implementation available .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm a "do something about GW now" skeptic, but even I can see that the LED lights are better.
Way less energy usage, and the colors are much, much more distinct due to being nearly monochrome.It seems that lights in the mid-west however were not properly designed.
You can't just take a stack of LEDs, stick them on a PCB with a current-limiting resistor and call it done.
Especially if you're going to be charging real money for the lamp.
You have to consider the requirements of the application you're installing them in.IOW, if it gets cold and there is snow, then you wind a wire through the PCB to use for active heating when it gets cold.
A robust, but somewhat wasteful mechanism would be to use a temperature controller to maintain a degree or two above freezing: snow and icing would be prevented, increasing the longevity of the light, at a cost of some wasted volt-amps during the winter months.
More savings could be realized by adding a "snow expected" flag to whatever control system runs the lights.
And cop time could be saved if it could be set remotely.This is a design problem, not a "green tech" problem.
Unless you accept the premise that all "green" tech must be the most naïve implementation available.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593626</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594052</id>
	<title>So here's an idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259857980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Um<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... if the old lights were hot enough to melt snow and stay visible in a blizzard REVERT TO THE OLD TECHNOLOGY!  Clearly the wasted heat wasn't exactly wasted if it served a useful purpose.  Why waste all this money coming up with these crazy schemes for getting snow off an LED when a regular old hot incandescent has the functionality you need BUILT IN?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Um ... if the old lights were hot enough to melt snow and stay visible in a blizzard REVERT TO THE OLD TECHNOLOGY !
Clearly the wasted heat was n't exactly wasted if it served a useful purpose .
Why waste all this money coming up with these crazy schemes for getting snow off an LED when a regular old hot incandescent has the functionality you need BUILT IN ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Um ... if the old lights were hot enough to melt snow and stay visible in a blizzard REVERT TO THE OLD TECHNOLOGY!
Clearly the wasted heat wasn't exactly wasted if it served a useful purpose.
Why waste all this money coming up with these crazy schemes for getting snow off an LED when a regular old hot incandescent has the functionality you need BUILT IN?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593490</id>
	<title>duh</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259856000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>why don't they just angle the lenses downwards with less of a hood?  problem solved.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>why do n't they just angle the lenses downwards with less of a hood ?
problem solved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>why don't they just angle the lenses downwards with less of a hood?
problem solved.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30608784</id>
	<title>Re:Distinguish top from bottom</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262291460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>On top of this, the "green" in traffic lights is actually bluish.  This is done intentionally to allow those of us who are red/green deficient to tell the difference.  From what I understand, there are some municipalities who haven't gotten this quite right, and are still a little off on their greens, but the standard is to use a blue/green.</p><p>Also, top/bottom doesn't always work--some lights are horizontal.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>On top of this , the " green " in traffic lights is actually bluish .
This is done intentionally to allow those of us who are red/green deficient to tell the difference .
From what I understand , there are some municipalities who have n't gotten this quite right , and are still a little off on their greens , but the standard is to use a blue/green.Also , top/bottom does n't always work--some lights are horizontal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On top of this, the "green" in traffic lights is actually bluish.
This is done intentionally to allow those of us who are red/green deficient to tell the difference.
From what I understand, there are some municipalities who haven't gotten this quite right, and are still a little off on their greens, but the standard is to use a blue/green.Also, top/bottom doesn't always work--some lights are horizontal.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596790</id>
	<title>LED IR?</title>
	<author>Azadre</author>
	<datestamp>1259866620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why not just put in Infrared LEDs in the mix as well.  That would heat up the light to above 0 C, and alleviate these problems.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why not just put in Infrared LEDs in the mix as well .
That would heat up the light to above 0 C , and alleviate these problems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why not just put in Infrared LEDs in the mix as well.
That would heat up the light to above 0 C, and alleviate these problems.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593512</id>
	<title>New design needed?</title>
	<author>nschubach</author>
	<datestamp>1259856120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe the lights need to take on a new form?  What kind of problems would arise from coating each LED's sides with black paint (to replicate the duty of the indirect sun shades) and spacing the LEDs out so snow can pass through them?  Or possibly shaping the LED or a cover as a cone shape so that it's harder to cover with snow?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe the lights need to take on a new form ?
What kind of problems would arise from coating each LED 's sides with black paint ( to replicate the duty of the indirect sun shades ) and spacing the LEDs out so snow can pass through them ?
Or possibly shaping the LED or a cover as a cone shape so that it 's harder to cover with snow ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe the lights need to take on a new form?
What kind of problems would arise from coating each LED's sides with black paint (to replicate the duty of the indirect sun shades) and spacing the LEDs out so snow can pass through them?
Or possibly shaping the LED or a cover as a cone shape so that it's harder to cover with snow?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594722</id>
	<title>Re:Good Advice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259860200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Right, but as someone above pointed out, in the snow situation, only one side (or maybe two) thinks it's a four way, everyone else is following the lights.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Right , but as someone above pointed out , in the snow situation , only one side ( or maybe two ) thinks it 's a four way , everyone else is following the lights .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Right, but as someone above pointed out, in the snow situation, only one side (or maybe two) thinks it's a four way, everyone else is following the lights.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593470</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593660</id>
	<title>Double whammy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259856720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>After having lived my first 30 years in Florida and now living in Ohio the past 10 I have a theory about Northern drivers. Besides the equipment issues like LED traffic lights what do cold temperatures affect? Hmmm...</p><p>We know that your bladder shrinks. We also know that your blood vessels constrict. That would include blood vessels feeding the brain. And that's why the drivers around here are so damn bad during the Winter. They are inherently stupider! So please fix the issue with LED traffic lights, as any additional handicaps are adding fuel to the fire!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>After having lived my first 30 years in Florida and now living in Ohio the past 10 I have a theory about Northern drivers .
Besides the equipment issues like LED traffic lights what do cold temperatures affect ?
Hmmm...We know that your bladder shrinks .
We also know that your blood vessels constrict .
That would include blood vessels feeding the brain .
And that 's why the drivers around here are so damn bad during the Winter .
They are inherently stupider !
So please fix the issue with LED traffic lights , as any additional handicaps are adding fuel to the fire !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After having lived my first 30 years in Florida and now living in Ohio the past 10 I have a theory about Northern drivers.
Besides the equipment issues like LED traffic lights what do cold temperatures affect?
Hmmm...We know that your bladder shrinks.
We also know that your blood vessels constrict.
That would include blood vessels feeding the brain.
And that's why the drivers around here are so damn bad during the Winter.
They are inherently stupider!
So please fix the issue with LED traffic lights, as any additional handicaps are adding fuel to the fire!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595106</id>
	<title>Re:duh</title>
	<author>Locutus</author>
	<datestamp>1259861400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>at what angle? For what speed do they determine the angle to be valid for? I new hood might work but I think directing the viewing angle is a tough one considering the varying speeds and distances drivers must see the light at and from.<br><br>LoB</htmltext>
<tokenext>at what angle ?
For what speed do they determine the angle to be valid for ?
I new hood might work but I think directing the viewing angle is a tough one considering the varying speeds and distances drivers must see the light at and from.LoB</tokentext>
<sentencetext>at what angle?
For what speed do they determine the angle to be valid for?
I new hood might work but I think directing the viewing angle is a tough one considering the varying speeds and distances drivers must see the light at and from.LoB</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593490</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593522</id>
	<title>No issues in Canada</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259856180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A lot of traffic lights in Canada are of the LED variety.  I've never seen one obstructed by snow.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A lot of traffic lights in Canada are of the LED variety .
I 've never seen one obstructed by snow .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A lot of traffic lights in Canada are of the LED variety.
I've never seen one obstructed by snow.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593614</id>
	<title>Re:Simple</title>
	<author>nschubach</author>
	<datestamp>1259856540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sure, problem solved, but the summary points out why that's not happening:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>We can remove the snow with heat, but the cost of doing that in terms of energy use has not brought any enthusiasm from cities and states that buy these signals,' said the CEO of an LED traffic-signal manufacturer.</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure , problem solved , but the summary points out why that 's not happening : We can remove the snow with heat , but the cost of doing that in terms of energy use has not brought any enthusiasm from cities and states that buy these signals, ' said the CEO of an LED traffic-signal manufacturer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure, problem solved, but the summary points out why that's not happening:We can remove the snow with heat, but the cost of doing that in terms of energy use has not brought any enthusiasm from cities and states that buy these signals,' said the CEO of an LED traffic-signal manufacturer.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593510</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30598522</id>
	<title>Re:The real world defeats the lab</title>
	<author>Citizen of Earth</author>
	<datestamp>1259873220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>This is a great example of theory meeting the real world</p></div></blockquote><p>You might say "<b>colliding</b> with the real world".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a great example of theory meeting the real worldYou might say " colliding with the real world " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a great example of theory meeting the real worldYou might say "colliding with the real world".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593838</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594890</id>
	<title>Snow shields do work!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259860680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here in Oslo (Norway) we've had these LED lights for several years, and the snow shields have never (afaik) had any problems keeping the lights visible, even during our regular snow storms.</p><p>Here's a detail from a photo of a local junction which I took for my wife. She is responsible for making public transport in the region as efficient as possible, which includes giving priority to buses and trams in all intersections:</p><p><a href="http://tmsw.no/trafikklys.jpg" title="tmsw.no">http://tmsw.no/trafikklys.jpg</a> [tmsw.no]</p><p>Terje</p><p>PS. Here's a link to the least useful program I have even written, pi-search, which can locate digit strings anywhere within the first 1e9 digits of pi:</p><p><a href="http://tmsw.no/pi-search/" title="tmsw.no">http://tmsw.no/pi-search/</a> [tmsw.no]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here in Oslo ( Norway ) we 've had these LED lights for several years , and the snow shields have never ( afaik ) had any problems keeping the lights visible , even during our regular snow storms.Here 's a detail from a photo of a local junction which I took for my wife .
She is responsible for making public transport in the region as efficient as possible , which includes giving priority to buses and trams in all intersections : http : //tmsw.no/trafikklys.jpg [ tmsw.no ] TerjePS .
Here 's a link to the least useful program I have even written , pi-search , which can locate digit strings anywhere within the first 1e9 digits of pi : http : //tmsw.no/pi-search/ [ tmsw.no ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here in Oslo (Norway) we've had these LED lights for several years, and the snow shields have never (afaik) had any problems keeping the lights visible, even during our regular snow storms.Here's a detail from a photo of a local junction which I took for my wife.
She is responsible for making public transport in the region as efficient as possible, which includes giving priority to buses and trams in all intersections:http://tmsw.no/trafikklys.jpg [tmsw.no]TerjePS.
Here's a link to the least useful program I have even written, pi-search, which can locate digit strings anywhere within the first 1e9 digits of pi:http://tmsw.no/pi-search/ [tmsw.no]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594336</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593670</id>
	<title>Re:heating element</title>
	<author>tg2k</author>
	<datestamp>1259856780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If the lights are networked, you could just send a signal to all or a group of them to turn on the heating elements whenever it is snowing.
<p>
Or, if you can somehow detect the snow, you could fully automate it.  But doing it purely based on temperature would be wasteful because a lot of the time you have cold without snow.
</p><p>
Lots of lights have nearby cameras (whether for catching people running red lights or for traffic control, I'm not always sure) and perhaps you could use these to detect the snow.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the lights are networked , you could just send a signal to all or a group of them to turn on the heating elements whenever it is snowing .
Or , if you can somehow detect the snow , you could fully automate it .
But doing it purely based on temperature would be wasteful because a lot of the time you have cold without snow .
Lots of lights have nearby cameras ( whether for catching people running red lights or for traffic control , I 'm not always sure ) and perhaps you could use these to detect the snow .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the lights are networked, you could just send a signal to all or a group of them to turn on the heating elements whenever it is snowing.
Or, if you can somehow detect the snow, you could fully automate it.
But doing it purely based on temperature would be wasteful because a lot of the time you have cold without snow.
Lots of lights have nearby cameras (whether for catching people running red lights or for traffic control, I'm not always sure) and perhaps you could use these to detect the snow.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593488</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595964</id>
	<title>Re:If ND doesn't have this problem...</title>
	<author>infinite9</author>
	<datestamp>1259863980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If they're not working in other states, than either their storms are somehow worse than ND's, or they've cheaped out on the snow shields that go over the top of the lights. I know which one I'd put my money on...</p></div><p>I've lived in both Indianapolis and Chicago.  I've noticed that winter weather can behave very differently from place to place.  Indianapolis seems to be right on the border between rain and snow.  I've never seen a place more susceptible to sleet and freezing rain.  There were many days where my car was so encrusted with ice, that I was unable to even get my hand in the door handle, let alone actually open the door.  We're talking 1/2" of ice.  Also, 90\% of my experiences with black ice were in Indianapolis. </p><p>Once I moved to chicago, winter was a very different experience.  We do get sleet and freezing rain here, but mostly, it just snows.  This makes all the difference in the world for driving.  And since it seems logical that different geographic locations have different wind patterns, I think some locations are more susceptible to driving, horizontal snow.  And if it's a wet snow instead of powder, that's the stuff that plugs up the traffic lights.  If ND is dryer and less windy, then you're more likely to get falling powder I would think, which would fall out of the traffic lights instead of sticking.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If they 're not working in other states , than either their storms are somehow worse than ND 's , or they 've cheaped out on the snow shields that go over the top of the lights .
I know which one I 'd put my money on...I 've lived in both Indianapolis and Chicago .
I 've noticed that winter weather can behave very differently from place to place .
Indianapolis seems to be right on the border between rain and snow .
I 've never seen a place more susceptible to sleet and freezing rain .
There were many days where my car was so encrusted with ice , that I was unable to even get my hand in the door handle , let alone actually open the door .
We 're talking 1/2 " of ice .
Also , 90 \ % of my experiences with black ice were in Indianapolis .
Once I moved to chicago , winter was a very different experience .
We do get sleet and freezing rain here , but mostly , it just snows .
This makes all the difference in the world for driving .
And since it seems logical that different geographic locations have different wind patterns , I think some locations are more susceptible to driving , horizontal snow .
And if it 's a wet snow instead of powder , that 's the stuff that plugs up the traffic lights .
If ND is dryer and less windy , then you 're more likely to get falling powder I would think , which would fall out of the traffic lights instead of sticking .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they're not working in other states, than either their storms are somehow worse than ND's, or they've cheaped out on the snow shields that go over the top of the lights.
I know which one I'd put my money on...I've lived in both Indianapolis and Chicago.
I've noticed that winter weather can behave very differently from place to place.
Indianapolis seems to be right on the border between rain and snow.
I've never seen a place more susceptible to sleet and freezing rain.
There were many days where my car was so encrusted with ice, that I was unable to even get my hand in the door handle, let alone actually open the door.
We're talking 1/2" of ice.
Also, 90\% of my experiences with black ice were in Indianapolis.
Once I moved to chicago, winter was a very different experience.
We do get sleet and freezing rain here, but mostly, it just snows.
This makes all the difference in the world for driving.
And since it seems logical that different geographic locations have different wind patterns, I think some locations are more susceptible to driving, horizontal snow.
And if it's a wet snow instead of powder, that's the stuff that plugs up the traffic lights.
If ND is dryer and less windy, then you're more likely to get falling powder I would think, which would fall out of the traffic lights instead of sticking.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594336</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595554</id>
	<title>Re:I'm from Wisconsin and that's BS!</title>
	<author>Volante3192</author>
	<datestamp>1259862720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It wasn't a red light, it was (allegedly) a green arrow diffused by snow to appear a solid green.</p><p>So yes, the color came through perfectly, but not the shape.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It was n't a red light , it was ( allegedly ) a green arrow diffused by snow to appear a solid green.So yes , the color came through perfectly , but not the shape .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It wasn't a red light, it was (allegedly) a green arrow diffused by snow to appear a solid green.So yes, the color came through perfectly, but not the shape.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594008</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596942</id>
	<title>Re:whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259867220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are both sideways and upside-down lights in the US.</p><p>You also have total clusterfucks like 5-way intersections involving boulevards, which gets ridiculously complicated in the signal-category.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are both sideways and upside-down lights in the US.You also have total clusterfucks like 5-way intersections involving boulevards , which gets ridiculously complicated in the signal-category .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are both sideways and upside-down lights in the US.You also have total clusterfucks like 5-way intersections involving boulevards, which gets ridiculously complicated in the signal-category.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593638</id>
	<title>Simple Solution</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259856600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>use a non-stick, non-freezing lens for the lights.</p><p>also add an anti-glare coating too so the light covers arent deep enough to catch snow, with a slightly dark color.</p><p>note that a good portion of that black light housing has already melted.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>use a non-stick , non-freezing lens for the lights.also add an anti-glare coating too so the light covers arent deep enough to catch snow , with a slightly dark color.note that a good portion of that black light housing has already melted .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>use a non-stick, non-freezing lens for the lights.also add an anti-glare coating too so the light covers arent deep enough to catch snow, with a slightly dark color.note that a good portion of that black light housing has already melted.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594574</id>
	<title>Re:Distinguish top from bottom</title>
	<author>ftobin</author>
	<datestamp>1259859660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>When it is dark out, I can certainly see it being difficult to determine where the unlit lights are.</htmltext>
<tokenext>When it is dark out , I can certainly see it being difficult to determine where the unlit lights are .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When it is dark out, I can certainly see it being difficult to determine where the unlit lights are.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594652</id>
	<title>Re:duh</title>
	<author>QuantumRiff</author>
	<datestamp>1259859960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thats really it.  the hood was for the old bulbs, that where hard to see in bright light.  The LED's can be seen in bright light.  Remove the hood, and there is less places for the snow to "hide" and pile up.  Its not like they need to protect the bulbs from the elements..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thats really it .
the hood was for the old bulbs , that where hard to see in bright light .
The LED 's can be seen in bright light .
Remove the hood , and there is less places for the snow to " hide " and pile up .
Its not like they need to protect the bulbs from the elements. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thats really it.
the hood was for the old bulbs, that where hard to see in bright light.
The LED's can be seen in bright light.
Remove the hood, and there is less places for the snow to "hide" and pile up.
Its not like they need to protect the bulbs from the elements..</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593490</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594268</id>
	<title>Re:The real world defeats the lab</title>
	<author>King\_TJ</author>
	<datestamp>1259858760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>True, but I don't think this was nearly as much about "going green" as it was "saving green".  Local govt. all over the country has been proving time and time again that their *true* primary goal revolves around generating revenue and cutting costs, vs. motorist safety.  Look at all the red light cameras they've been installing.  Studies keep showing they cause MORE rear-end collisions, and they certainly create a number of legal and ethical questions.  (EG.  Most police departments have an internal policy or "code of ethics" stating they will keep private business out of their revenue collection process - yet they hire private contractors to both install AND run the red light cameras, with them getting a lion's share of the "cut" of each ticket that's paid!)  But they really like the big boost to their bottom line they create, so screw the detractors!</p><p>And in this case, you see the same behavior....  Problem identified with new LED traffic signals and snow, but obvious solutions SLOW to be implemented, because it negatively impacts their cost-savings potential.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>True , but I do n't think this was nearly as much about " going green " as it was " saving green " .
Local govt .
all over the country has been proving time and time again that their * true * primary goal revolves around generating revenue and cutting costs , vs. motorist safety .
Look at all the red light cameras they 've been installing .
Studies keep showing they cause MORE rear-end collisions , and they certainly create a number of legal and ethical questions .
( EG. Most police departments have an internal policy or " code of ethics " stating they will keep private business out of their revenue collection process - yet they hire private contractors to both install AND run the red light cameras , with them getting a lion 's share of the " cut " of each ticket that 's paid !
) But they really like the big boost to their bottom line they create , so screw the detractors ! And in this case , you see the same behavior.... Problem identified with new LED traffic signals and snow , but obvious solutions SLOW to be implemented , because it negatively impacts their cost-savings potential .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>True, but I don't think this was nearly as much about "going green" as it was "saving green".
Local govt.
all over the country has been proving time and time again that their *true* primary goal revolves around generating revenue and cutting costs, vs. motorist safety.
Look at all the red light cameras they've been installing.
Studies keep showing they cause MORE rear-end collisions, and they certainly create a number of legal and ethical questions.
(EG.  Most police departments have an internal policy or "code of ethics" stating they will keep private business out of their revenue collection process - yet they hire private contractors to both install AND run the red light cameras, with them getting a lion's share of the "cut" of each ticket that's paid!
)  But they really like the big boost to their bottom line they create, so screw the detractors!And in this case, you see the same behavior....  Problem identified with new LED traffic signals and snow, but obvious solutions SLOW to be implemented, because it negatively impacts their cost-savings potential.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593838</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30598614</id>
	<title>Re:whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>Darinbob</author>
	<datestamp>1259873520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The LED lights in California I've seen are in fixed configurations.  They're not programmable.  So if you want a turn signal, you arrange the LEDs to look like a turn arrow, and have it separate from the solid green light.  Not sure if some are experimenting with configurable ones, but that would add a lot more points of failure into something which is supposed to require less maintenance.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The LED lights in California I 've seen are in fixed configurations .
They 're not programmable .
So if you want a turn signal , you arrange the LEDs to look like a turn arrow , and have it separate from the solid green light .
Not sure if some are experimenting with configurable ones , but that would add a lot more points of failure into something which is supposed to require less maintenance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The LED lights in California I've seen are in fixed configurations.
They're not programmable.
So if you want a turn signal, you arrange the LEDs to look like a turn arrow, and have it separate from the solid green light.
Not sure if some are experimenting with configurable ones, but that would add a lot more points of failure into something which is supposed to require less maintenance.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594318</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594186</id>
	<title>gene bangert</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259858460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is an easy easy easy fix. replace a percentage of the leds with IR leds to generate some heat</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is an easy easy easy fix .
replace a percentage of the leds with IR leds to generate some heat</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is an easy easy easy fix.
replace a percentage of the leds with IR leds to generate some heat</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594000</id>
	<title>Re:Distinguish top from bottom</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259857860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In florida the lights are horizontal and not vertical, if you are not from there and see them for the first time, it is very confusing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In florida the lights are horizontal and not vertical , if you are not from there and see them for the first time , it is very confusing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In florida the lights are horizontal and not vertical, if you are not from there and see them for the first time, it is very confusing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595350</id>
	<title>It's important to point out...</title>
	<author>sean.peters</author>
	<datestamp>1259862060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>... that the main savings involved in replacing incandescent signals with LEDs isn't the energy - it's the expense of having to pay someone to replace those bulbs when they burn out, over and over again. LED bulbs last practically forever. The cost savings in bulb replacement has been a bigger factor than energy savings in driving the move to LED bulbs in signals. I'm pretty sure you could add a tiny heater to the signal enclosure and not make much of a change in the expense of operating the thing, anyway.</htmltext>
<tokenext>... that the main savings involved in replacing incandescent signals with LEDs is n't the energy - it 's the expense of having to pay someone to replace those bulbs when they burn out , over and over again .
LED bulbs last practically forever .
The cost savings in bulb replacement has been a bigger factor than energy savings in driving the move to LED bulbs in signals .
I 'm pretty sure you could add a tiny heater to the signal enclosure and not make much of a change in the expense of operating the thing , anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... that the main savings involved in replacing incandescent signals with LEDs isn't the energy - it's the expense of having to pay someone to replace those bulbs when they burn out, over and over again.
LED bulbs last practically forever.
The cost savings in bulb replacement has been a bigger factor than energy savings in driving the move to LED bulbs in signals.
I'm pretty sure you could add a tiny heater to the signal enclosure and not make much of a change in the expense of operating the thing, anyway.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593668</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595034</id>
	<title>Re:The real world defeats the lab</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259861160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, this is just proof that idiots drive.</p><p>Apparently people are overly-reliant on the colors instead of WHAT one is actually lit up.<br>Top, Stop, 3rd from Bottom, hit that peddle and off you go.<br>There are standards for reasons.</p><p>Now i wish they used just white lights instead of color.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , this is just proof that idiots drive.Apparently people are overly-reliant on the colors instead of WHAT one is actually lit up.Top , Stop , 3rd from Bottom , hit that peddle and off you go.There are standards for reasons.Now i wish they used just white lights instead of color .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, this is just proof that idiots drive.Apparently people are overly-reliant on the colors instead of WHAT one is actually lit up.Top, Stop, 3rd from Bottom, hit that peddle and off you go.There are standards for reasons.Now i wish they used just white lights instead of color.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593838</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593806</id>
	<title>They just  need a better design</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259857200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem isn't the new bulbs themselves.  It's because the light fixture is designed with the old bulbs in mind.</p><p>They need new fixtures that are made for LED's and account for problems like lack of heat (eg. they could design it so that snow does not collect in front of the lights).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is n't the new bulbs themselves .
It 's because the light fixture is designed with the old bulbs in mind.They need new fixtures that are made for LED 's and account for problems like lack of heat ( eg .
they could design it so that snow does not collect in front of the lights ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem isn't the new bulbs themselves.
It's because the light fixture is designed with the old bulbs in mind.They need new fixtures that are made for LED's and account for problems like lack of heat (eg.
they could design it so that snow does not collect in front of the lights).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593466</id>
	<title>whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259856000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>idiot driver should be prosecuted since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal. i've seen intersections with broken lights before and people are very careful when they go and make sure the other guy is going to yield.</p><p>some people are always in a constant state of hurry and can't seem to wait a few seconds</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>idiot driver should be prosecuted since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal .
i 've seen intersections with broken lights before and people are very careful when they go and make sure the other guy is going to yield.some people are always in a constant state of hurry and ca n't seem to wait a few seconds</tokentext>
<sentencetext>idiot driver should be prosecuted since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal.
i've seen intersections with broken lights before and people are very careful when they go and make sure the other guy is going to yield.some people are always in a constant state of hurry and can't seem to wait a few seconds</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596082</id>
	<title>Change the color</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259864280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why not make these purple or blue. Maybe make them blink in the direction they point.Any of these would tell the driver what was up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why not make these purple or blue .
Maybe make them blink in the direction they point.Any of these would tell the driver what was up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why not make these purple or blue.
Maybe make them blink in the direction they point.Any of these would tell the driver what was up.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30598236</id>
	<title>How about by weight?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259872200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about by weight? If the signal housing weighs more than it should activate the heater.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about by weight ?
If the signal housing weighs more than it should activate the heater .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about by weight?
If the signal housing weighs more than it should activate the heater.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593708</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594662</id>
	<title>Re:Distinguish top from bottom</title>
	<author>eht</author>
	<datestamp>1259859960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Except at Tipperary Hill.<br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipperary\_Hill" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipperary\_Hill</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Except at Tipperary Hill.http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipperary \ _Hill [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except at Tipperary Hill.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipperary\_Hill [wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30602488</id>
	<title>Re:whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259857080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>idiot driver should be prosecuted since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal. i've seen intersections with broken lights before and people are very careful when they go and make sure the other guy is going to yield.</p><p>some people are always in a constant state of hurry and can't seem to wait a few seconds</p></div><p>I've been in several towns where they mount the lights... SIDEWAYS.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>idiot driver should be prosecuted since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal .
i 've seen intersections with broken lights before and people are very careful when they go and make sure the other guy is going to yield.some people are always in a constant state of hurry and ca n't seem to wait a few secondsI 've been in several towns where they mount the lights... SIDEWAYS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>idiot driver should be prosecuted since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal.
i've seen intersections with broken lights before and people are very careful when they go and make sure the other guy is going to yield.some people are always in a constant state of hurry and can't seem to wait a few secondsI've been in several towns where they mount the lights... SIDEWAYS.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595058</id>
	<title>Re:heating element</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259861220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>[ citation needed ]</p><p>$100 a month for a couple of lights?  yeah right.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>[ citation needed ] $ 100 a month for a couple of lights ?
yeah right .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>[ citation needed ]$100 a month for a couple of lights?
yeah right.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593702</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593710</id>
	<title>Re:whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>CrazyDuke</author>
	<datestamp>1259856900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not always that they are in a hurry.  It's often just a plain old sense of entitlement.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not always that they are in a hurry .
It 's often just a plain old sense of entitlement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not always that they are in a hurry.
It's often just a plain old sense of entitlement.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597412</id>
	<title>Possible Fix</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259869020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A probably quick and easy fix, while maintaining a high level of energy efficacy would be to put a small heater attached to a Satellite receiver (IE; Pager) that can receive simple commands such as "HEATER; POWER ON, TIME; 1HR".  Give all the receivers in a discrete area (say a county or city) their own ID and let the local Road Commission decide when and how long to turn them on (Yes, I know, some type of authentication system would be needed but thinking basics at the moment).  Power might be an issue seeing as how I don't think there is a constant ON circuit to most street lights but you could tie into the positive leads on all three lights and patch in a capacitance circuit to handle the power spikes/drops between light switches.  Of course the best case solution would be a light which would realize it was being covered and turn on its own heater for just the length of time needed to clear the blockage, but unless such as system has already been developed and tested it would probably take years to make sure a newly developed system would work in all reasonable conditions.  Such as system could also negate the power efficiency gains in added system cost and power usage for the detection circuitry.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A probably quick and easy fix , while maintaining a high level of energy efficacy would be to put a small heater attached to a Satellite receiver ( IE ; Pager ) that can receive simple commands such as " HEATER ; POWER ON , TIME ; 1HR " .
Give all the receivers in a discrete area ( say a county or city ) their own ID and let the local Road Commission decide when and how long to turn them on ( Yes , I know , some type of authentication system would be needed but thinking basics at the moment ) .
Power might be an issue seeing as how I do n't think there is a constant ON circuit to most street lights but you could tie into the positive leads on all three lights and patch in a capacitance circuit to handle the power spikes/drops between light switches .
Of course the best case solution would be a light which would realize it was being covered and turn on its own heater for just the length of time needed to clear the blockage , but unless such as system has already been developed and tested it would probably take years to make sure a newly developed system would work in all reasonable conditions .
Such as system could also negate the power efficiency gains in added system cost and power usage for the detection circuitry .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A probably quick and easy fix, while maintaining a high level of energy efficacy would be to put a small heater attached to a Satellite receiver (IE; Pager) that can receive simple commands such as "HEATER; POWER ON, TIME; 1HR".
Give all the receivers in a discrete area (say a county or city) their own ID and let the local Road Commission decide when and how long to turn them on (Yes, I know, some type of authentication system would be needed but thinking basics at the moment).
Power might be an issue seeing as how I don't think there is a constant ON circuit to most street lights but you could tie into the positive leads on all three lights and patch in a capacitance circuit to handle the power spikes/drops between light switches.
Of course the best case solution would be a light which would realize it was being covered and turn on its own heater for just the length of time needed to clear the blockage, but unless such as system has already been developed and tested it would probably take years to make sure a newly developed system would work in all reasonable conditions.
Such as system could also negate the power efficiency gains in added system cost and power usage for the detection circuitry.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594010</id>
	<title>SIgh</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1259857920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just put in a heater the runs at the appropriates times.<br>However when a traffic light is obscured, it is the drivers responsibility to proceed with caution.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just put in a heater the runs at the appropriates times.However when a traffic light is obscured , it is the drivers responsibility to proceed with caution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just put in a heater the runs at the appropriates times.However when a traffic light is obscured, it is the drivers responsibility to proceed with caution.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30601984</id>
	<title>Re:They're balking about the price?!</title>
	<author>toddestan</author>
	<datestamp>1259852100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A 100W replacement LED bulb is about 10-15W or so draw for home use, so I would imagine that the LED traffic lights are already putting out that kind of heat already.  You'll probably need a larger heater than 5W.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A 100W replacement LED bulb is about 10-15W or so draw for home use , so I would imagine that the LED traffic lights are already putting out that kind of heat already .
You 'll probably need a larger heater than 5W .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A 100W replacement LED bulb is about 10-15W or so draw for home use, so I would imagine that the LED traffic lights are already putting out that kind of heat already.
You'll probably need a larger heater than 5W.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596086</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595384</id>
	<title>Additional helpful(?) suggestions</title>
	<author>hallux.sinister</author>
	<datestamp>1259862180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How about a hydrophobic coating on the lenses, or... put the stoplights inside the cars.  A system would have to be come-up-with for signalling the cars in a fool-proof (or at least fool-resistant) fashion, letting a car in any given lane know when it is approaching a red-light, and indicating this to the driver.  Not sure how that would work, but it allows some interesting possibilities, like telling a car the light is red based on the car's speed and position, (knowing the car can't make it in time), reducing collisions at intersections.  The same tech could be put in busses and trucks to let them know when a train is approaching.  Wouldn't have to be expensive either.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How about a hydrophobic coating on the lenses , or... put the stoplights inside the cars .
A system would have to be come-up-with for signalling the cars in a fool-proof ( or at least fool-resistant ) fashion , letting a car in any given lane know when it is approaching a red-light , and indicating this to the driver .
Not sure how that would work , but it allows some interesting possibilities , like telling a car the light is red based on the car 's speed and position , ( knowing the car ca n't make it in time ) , reducing collisions at intersections .
The same tech could be put in busses and trucks to let them know when a train is approaching .
Would n't have to be expensive either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about a hydrophobic coating on the lenses, or... put the stoplights inside the cars.
A system would have to be come-up-with for signalling the cars in a fool-proof (or at least fool-resistant) fashion, letting a car in any given lane know when it is approaching a red-light, and indicating this to the driver.
Not sure how that would work, but it allows some interesting possibilities, like telling a car the light is red based on the car's speed and position, (knowing the car can't make it in time), reducing collisions at intersections.
The same tech could be put in busses and trucks to let them know when a train is approaching.
Wouldn't have to be expensive either.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593552</id>
	<title>Remove the shroud?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259856300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It seems the obvious solution is to remove the shroud surrounding the LEDs.  The LEDs are bright enough and directional enough to not need a shroud, unlike the incandescents.<br>Remove the shroud, the snow has no place to accumulate and the lights can be seen.  Everyone is happy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It seems the obvious solution is to remove the shroud surrounding the LEDs .
The LEDs are bright enough and directional enough to not need a shroud , unlike the incandescents.Remove the shroud , the snow has no place to accumulate and the lights can be seen .
Everyone is happy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It seems the obvious solution is to remove the shroud surrounding the LEDs.
The LEDs are bright enough and directional enough to not need a shroud, unlike the incandescents.Remove the shroud, the snow has no place to accumulate and the lights can be seen.
Everyone is happy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30600334</id>
	<title>RF upgrade?</title>
	<author>bussdriver</author>
	<datestamp>1259839680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about a short range RF signal indicator?  a cheap analog signal at each intersection; standardized.  future cars could use this to provide additional information to the driver.  downside is the blackbox in new cars would likely record this so you'd be stuck having the speed and the light used against you in court.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about a short range RF signal indicator ?
a cheap analog signal at each intersection ; standardized .
future cars could use this to provide additional information to the driver .
downside is the blackbox in new cars would likely record this so you 'd be stuck having the speed and the light used against you in court .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about a short range RF signal indicator?
a cheap analog signal at each intersection; standardized.
future cars could use this to provide additional information to the driver.
downside is the blackbox in new cars would likely record this so you'd be stuck having the speed and the light used against you in court.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594722</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593812</id>
	<title>Not a problem</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259857200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My town mistakenly ordered IED lights. These remove their own snow.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My town mistakenly ordered IED lights .
These remove their own snow .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My town mistakenly ordered IED lights.
These remove their own snow.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593720</id>
	<title>Re:whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259856900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not always.  One light in particular is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipperary\_Hill" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">bass-ackwards</a> [wikipedia.org].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not always .
One light in particular is bass-ackwards [ wikipedia.org ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not always.
One light in particular is bass-ackwards [wikipedia.org].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594446</id>
	<title>Re:Only apply heat when there's snow on the light?</title>
	<author>Interoperable</author>
	<datestamp>1259859240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You could use a simple photo-diode inside the LED enclosure to measure reflection off the snow. A snow covered surface would reflect much more than a clear one. Wouldn't even need much processing.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You could use a simple photo-diode inside the LED enclosure to measure reflection off the snow .
A snow covered surface would reflect much more than a clear one .
Would n't even need much processing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You could use a simple photo-diode inside the LED enclosure to measure reflection off the snow.
A snow covered surface would reflect much more than a clear one.
Wouldn't even need much processing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593708</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594020</id>
	<title>Parallel Yellow / Green</title>
	<author>autocracy</author>
	<datestamp>1259857920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>\_\_R\_\_<br>LY NY<br>LG NG</p><p>That's a common traffic light configuration for a left-hand turn light in addition to a normal light. (L / N stand for left / normal).</p><p>\_\_R\_\_<br>NY RY<br>NG RG</p><p>That's a common traffic light configuration for a right-hand turn light in addition to a normal light. (N / R stand for normal / right).</p><p>If they were obscured in a diffuse manner, perhaps you can see the issue that arises for somebody unfamiliar with the intersection.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>\ _ \ _R \ _ \ _LY NYLG NGThat 's a common traffic light configuration for a left-hand turn light in addition to a normal light .
( L / N stand for left / normal ) . \ _ \ _R \ _ \ _NY RYNG RGThat 's a common traffic light configuration for a right-hand turn light in addition to a normal light .
( N / R stand for normal / right ) .If they were obscured in a diffuse manner , perhaps you can see the issue that arises for somebody unfamiliar with the intersection .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>\_\_R\_\_LY NYLG NGThat's a common traffic light configuration for a left-hand turn light in addition to a normal light.
(L / N stand for left / normal).\_\_R\_\_NY RYNG RGThat's a common traffic light configuration for a right-hand turn light in addition to a normal light.
(N / R stand for normal / right).If they were obscured in a diffuse manner, perhaps you can see the issue that arises for somebody unfamiliar with the intersection.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596696</id>
	<title>Re:If ND doesn't have this problem...</title>
	<author>Reziac</author>
	<datestamp>1259866260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Contrary to the rest of the world's perception, ND is one of the most technically advanced states in practical workaday stuff. So no wonder they got it right...  And having lived in ND, I'd be astonished if *anywhere* has worse blizzards!</p><p>But if melting off snow is an issue (and trust me, it can be even with the old lights) why not use a simple and cheap solution like low-wattage heat tape that turns on at a specified temperature? It's not like this is rocket science, trailer owners have used it to keep their pipes from freezing for decades. Embed the wires in the glass shield akin to how it's done in car windows.</p><p>But maybe having fewer stupid people would be the best option. When we had snow-encrusted lights in MT, people had sense enough to behave like it was a 4-way stop, not try to barge along regardless.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Contrary to the rest of the world 's perception , ND is one of the most technically advanced states in practical workaday stuff .
So no wonder they got it right... And having lived in ND , I 'd be astonished if * anywhere * has worse blizzards ! But if melting off snow is an issue ( and trust me , it can be even with the old lights ) why not use a simple and cheap solution like low-wattage heat tape that turns on at a specified temperature ?
It 's not like this is rocket science , trailer owners have used it to keep their pipes from freezing for decades .
Embed the wires in the glass shield akin to how it 's done in car windows.But maybe having fewer stupid people would be the best option .
When we had snow-encrusted lights in MT , people had sense enough to behave like it was a 4-way stop , not try to barge along regardless .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Contrary to the rest of the world's perception, ND is one of the most technically advanced states in practical workaday stuff.
So no wonder they got it right...  And having lived in ND, I'd be astonished if *anywhere* has worse blizzards!But if melting off snow is an issue (and trust me, it can be even with the old lights) why not use a simple and cheap solution like low-wattage heat tape that turns on at a specified temperature?
It's not like this is rocket science, trailer owners have used it to keep their pipes from freezing for decades.
Embed the wires in the glass shield akin to how it's done in car windows.But maybe having fewer stupid people would be the best option.
When we had snow-encrusted lights in MT, people had sense enough to behave like it was a 4-way stop, not try to barge along regardless.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594336</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597062</id>
	<title>Radioisotopes</title>
	<author>laughing\_badger</author>
	<datestamp>1259867700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is an opportunity, not a problem.

Pack the lights with a nice long half-life radioisotope that we want to dispose of and let them melt their own snow. That way we still get all of the green benefits of LED over incandescent.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is an opportunity , not a problem .
Pack the lights with a nice long half-life radioisotope that we want to dispose of and let them melt their own snow .
That way we still get all of the green benefits of LED over incandescent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is an opportunity, not a problem.
Pack the lights with a nice long half-life radioisotope that we want to dispose of and let them melt their own snow.
That way we still get all of the green benefits of LED over incandescent.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594786</id>
	<title>Re:Only apply heat when there's snow on the light?</title>
	<author>nedlohs</author>
	<datestamp>1259860320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In winter in lots of places it is both dark and cold enough for snow almost every night in winter.</p><p>And people should already be trained, if the traffic lights are out (which happens for lots of reasons other than slow obscuring them) then it is a four-way stop. But people are morons and the center of the universe so they don't care.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In winter in lots of places it is both dark and cold enough for snow almost every night in winter.And people should already be trained , if the traffic lights are out ( which happens for lots of reasons other than slow obscuring them ) then it is a four-way stop .
But people are morons and the center of the universe so they do n't care .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In winter in lots of places it is both dark and cold enough for snow almost every night in winter.And people should already be trained, if the traffic lights are out (which happens for lots of reasons other than slow obscuring them) then it is a four-way stop.
But people are morons and the center of the universe so they don't care.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593708</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597358</id>
	<title>Re:whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>vitaflo</author>
	<datestamp>1259868840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>"idiot driver should be prosecuted since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal"</i></p><p>What happens if the stop light is horizontal?  The summary mentions WI, which allows horizontal traffic lights.  Someone coming from a state like MN (which only has vertical lights) could easily be confused by this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" idiot driver should be prosecuted since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal " What happens if the stop light is horizontal ?
The summary mentions WI , which allows horizontal traffic lights .
Someone coming from a state like MN ( which only has vertical lights ) could easily be confused by this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"idiot driver should be prosecuted since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal"What happens if the stop light is horizontal?
The summary mentions WI, which allows horizontal traffic lights.
Someone coming from a state like MN (which only has vertical lights) could easily be confused by this.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30599746</id>
	<title>Re:Double whammy</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1259835840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I lived in Orlando for 5 years, explain why they drive so stupidly there? Besides, most cars have heaters.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I lived in Orlando for 5 years , explain why they drive so stupidly there ?
Besides , most cars have heaters .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I lived in Orlando for 5 years, explain why they drive so stupidly there?
Besides, most cars have heaters.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593660</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594806</id>
	<title>driving rules woulda saved a live</title>
	<author>luther349</author>
	<datestamp>1259860380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>weather 1 side of a light or the entire thing is not working correctly you stop. in case of a total faller you treat it as a 4 way. most drivers are very careful around a failed single. in case of one not working on 1 side you treat it as a flashing red single witch means stop until its safe to go. and if you report it they will send a traffic officer out to control traffic</htmltext>
<tokenext>weather 1 side of a light or the entire thing is not working correctly you stop .
in case of a total faller you treat it as a 4 way .
most drivers are very careful around a failed single .
in case of one not working on 1 side you treat it as a flashing red single witch means stop until its safe to go .
and if you report it they will send a traffic officer out to control traffic</tokentext>
<sentencetext>weather 1 side of a light or the entire thing is not working correctly you stop.
in case of a total faller you treat it as a 4 way.
most drivers are very careful around a failed single.
in case of one not working on 1 side you treat it as a flashing red single witch means stop until its safe to go.
and if you report it they will send a traffic officer out to control traffic</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30600104</id>
	<title>Re:Good Advice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259838120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But Frigga's Ring's statement still applies.  If you're not sure... stop.  Is the traffic that would intersect your path still moving?  Guess you shouldn't get in their friggin' way!  Are they stopped?  Probably a good time to go.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But Frigga 's Ring 's statement still applies .
If you 're not sure... stop. Is the traffic that would intersect your path still moving ?
Guess you should n't get in their friggin ' way !
Are they stopped ?
Probably a good time to go .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But Frigga's Ring's statement still applies.
If you're not sure... stop.  Is the traffic that would intersect your path still moving?
Guess you shouldn't get in their friggin' way!
Are they stopped?
Probably a good time to go.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594722</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593652</id>
	<title>Distinguish top from bottom</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259856720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Red/Green colorblindness is nothing new; that's why the lights are standardized to have green at the bottom and red at the top.  If you can't distinguish red from green, you can at least distinguish top from bottom.  Why is that not a perfectly acceptable solution?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Red/Green colorblindness is nothing new ; that 's why the lights are standardized to have green at the bottom and red at the top .
If you ca n't distinguish red from green , you can at least distinguish top from bottom .
Why is that not a perfectly acceptable solution ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Red/Green colorblindness is nothing new; that's why the lights are standardized to have green at the bottom and red at the top.
If you can't distinguish red from green, you can at least distinguish top from bottom.
Why is that not a perfectly acceptable solution?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596624</id>
	<title>Re:whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259865960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes. The placement of lights are maintained for people with visibility disorders such as color blindness.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes .
The placement of lights are maintained for people with visibility disorders such as color blindness .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes.
The placement of lights are maintained for people with visibility disorders such as color blindness.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594318</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594158</id>
	<title>Simple solution...</title>
	<author>Capt James McCarthy</author>
	<datestamp>1259858400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about encasing the lights in a large Plexiglas oval bulb. The snow should just mostly fall off and as long as the housing unit of the light is black, the heat created by radiation should assist melting any snow on the top of the Plexiglas bulb. Now, I'm sure there would be issues with this as well, but it could be a possible solution.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about encasing the lights in a large Plexiglas oval bulb .
The snow should just mostly fall off and as long as the housing unit of the light is black , the heat created by radiation should assist melting any snow on the top of the Plexiglas bulb .
Now , I 'm sure there would be issues with this as well , but it could be a possible solution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about encasing the lights in a large Plexiglas oval bulb.
The snow should just mostly fall off and as long as the housing unit of the light is black, the heat created by radiation should assist melting any snow on the top of the Plexiglas bulb.
Now, I'm sure there would be issues with this as well, but it could be a possible solution.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596648</id>
	<title>Re:Good Advice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259866080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Right, but as someone above pointed out, in the snow situation, only one side (or maybe two) thinks it's a four way, everyone else is following the lights.</p></div><p>If you can't see the light, and you see a car approaching your intersection at 50kph/35mph, with no indication of slowing, would you feel it was safe to go?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Right , but as someone above pointed out , in the snow situation , only one side ( or maybe two ) thinks it 's a four way , everyone else is following the lights.If you ca n't see the light , and you see a car approaching your intersection at 50kph/35mph , with no indication of slowing , would you feel it was safe to go ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Right, but as someone above pointed out, in the snow situation, only one side (or maybe two) thinks it's a four way, everyone else is following the lights.If you can't see the light, and you see a car approaching your intersection at 50kph/35mph, with no indication of slowing, would you feel it was safe to go?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594722</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594542</id>
	<title>Re:Distinguish top from bottom</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259859480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah but what about people with vertigo who can't distinguish top from bottom?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah but what about people with vertigo who ca n't distinguish top from bottom ?
; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah but what about people with vertigo who can't distinguish top from bottom?
;)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594168</id>
	<title>Re:Double whammy</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1259858400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>OTOH, you moving from Florida to Ohio raised the average IQ of both states.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>OTOH , you moving from Florida to Ohio raised the average IQ of both states .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OTOH, you moving from Florida to Ohio raised the average IQ of both states.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593660</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597454</id>
	<title>Re:Why is colorblindness mentioned?</title>
	<author>Derling Whirvish</author>
	<datestamp>1259869200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Do you never drive at night? At night it's impossible to determine the position of the lit light compared to the unlit lights unless there's a streetlight or other artificial light nearby to illuminate them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you never drive at night ?
At night it 's impossible to determine the position of the lit light compared to the unlit lights unless there 's a streetlight or other artificial light nearby to illuminate them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you never drive at night?
At night it's impossible to determine the position of the lit light compared to the unlit lights unless there's a streetlight or other artificial light nearby to illuminate them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596002</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595072</id>
	<title>Finally, a technical problem...</title>
	<author>russotto</author>
	<datestamp>1259861280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...which calls for a technological solution.</p><p>Looking at the light in the article, changing the shape of the hood or similar passive solutions probably won't work; the vertical metal sign is snow-covered despite no snow-trapping surfaces.  So it's going to need to be an active solution.  Heat and vibration are two choices.  Vibration might work, but vibration + electronics is often a bad idea; you might vibrate your LEDs loose as well as the snow.  Plus a heater is likely going to be more reliable.  So the next idea is how to turn it on.  Manual solutions are possible but an automatic one is desirable.  Easy enough not to turn it on when the lens is above 32F, but you also want it off when the lens is unobscured but cold.</p><p>Seems to me one way to do this is to measure the reflected light.  Include two photosensors.  Both should be on the inside of the lens but shielded from the LCDs themselves.  One should have a filter which blocks light except in the LCDs color.  The filtered sensor measures reflected light.  If the lens is obscured by snow, the filtered sensor signal should be high in absolute terms and similar to the unfiltered sensor signal. If the lens is clear of snow, the filtered sensor signal should be much lower than the unfiltered sensor signal during the day, and low in absolute terms at night.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...which calls for a technological solution.Looking at the light in the article , changing the shape of the hood or similar passive solutions probably wo n't work ; the vertical metal sign is snow-covered despite no snow-trapping surfaces .
So it 's going to need to be an active solution .
Heat and vibration are two choices .
Vibration might work , but vibration + electronics is often a bad idea ; you might vibrate your LEDs loose as well as the snow .
Plus a heater is likely going to be more reliable .
So the next idea is how to turn it on .
Manual solutions are possible but an automatic one is desirable .
Easy enough not to turn it on when the lens is above 32F , but you also want it off when the lens is unobscured but cold.Seems to me one way to do this is to measure the reflected light .
Include two photosensors .
Both should be on the inside of the lens but shielded from the LCDs themselves .
One should have a filter which blocks light except in the LCDs color .
The filtered sensor measures reflected light .
If the lens is obscured by snow , the filtered sensor signal should be high in absolute terms and similar to the unfiltered sensor signal .
If the lens is clear of snow , the filtered sensor signal should be much lower than the unfiltered sensor signal during the day , and low in absolute terms at night .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...which calls for a technological solution.Looking at the light in the article, changing the shape of the hood or similar passive solutions probably won't work; the vertical metal sign is snow-covered despite no snow-trapping surfaces.
So it's going to need to be an active solution.
Heat and vibration are two choices.
Vibration might work, but vibration + electronics is often a bad idea; you might vibrate your LEDs loose as well as the snow.
Plus a heater is likely going to be more reliable.
So the next idea is how to turn it on.
Manual solutions are possible but an automatic one is desirable.
Easy enough not to turn it on when the lens is above 32F, but you also want it off when the lens is unobscured but cold.Seems to me one way to do this is to measure the reflected light.
Include two photosensors.
Both should be on the inside of the lens but shielded from the LCDs themselves.
One should have a filter which blocks light except in the LCDs color.
The filtered sensor measures reflected light.
If the lens is obscured by snow, the filtered sensor signal should be high in absolute terms and similar to the unfiltered sensor signal.
If the lens is clear of snow, the filtered sensor signal should be much lower than the unfiltered sensor signal during the day, and low in absolute terms at night.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597780</id>
	<title>The real problem is...</title>
	<author>Nekomusume</author>
	<datestamp>1259870580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>People build traffic lights that are designed to catch snow.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People build traffic lights that are designed to catch snow .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People build traffic lights that are designed to catch snow.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593868</id>
	<title>Re:Simple</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259857440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Of course, they could always put a sloping cover above the signs so it doesn't get, well, covered in snow.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course , they could always put a sloping cover above the signs so it does n't get , well , covered in snow .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course, they could always put a sloping cover above the signs so it doesn't get, well, covered in snow.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593510</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597852</id>
	<title>Re:duh</title>
	<author>steelfood</author>
	<datestamp>1259870820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That and you don't get the viewing distance with a traffic light significantly angled down.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That and you do n't get the viewing distance with a traffic light significantly angled down .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That and you don't get the viewing distance with a traffic light significantly angled down.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594492</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595002</id>
	<title>Re:Only apply heat when there's snow on the light?</title>
	<author>ShatteredArm</author>
	<datestamp>1259861040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>A simpler answer might be to train people that they actually need to slow down if a traffic signal is not fully visible.</p></div></blockquote><p>

Having worked, in computer software, with a group of people called "users," I submit that training is almost never the answer.  Many people are simply untrainable.  Remember, these are people who often can't even remember what a turn signal is for, or how to correctly interpret a speed limit sign.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A simpler answer might be to train people that they actually need to slow down if a traffic signal is not fully visible .
Having worked , in computer software , with a group of people called " users , " I submit that training is almost never the answer .
Many people are simply untrainable .
Remember , these are people who often ca n't even remember what a turn signal is for , or how to correctly interpret a speed limit sign .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A simpler answer might be to train people that they actually need to slow down if a traffic signal is not fully visible.
Having worked, in computer software, with a group of people called "users," I submit that training is almost never the answer.
Many people are simply untrainable.
Remember, these are people who often can't even remember what a turn signal is for, or how to correctly interpret a speed limit sign.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593708</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30598126</id>
	<title>Re:The real world defeats the lab</title>
	<author>maxume</author>
	<datestamp>1259871840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Blah blah blah whatever, LED+heater is still going to use less energy and be more visible than incandescent, this is a failure to perfectly anticipate installation conditions, not some green boondoggle.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Blah blah blah whatever , LED + heater is still going to use less energy and be more visible than incandescent , this is a failure to perfectly anticipate installation conditions , not some green boondoggle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Blah blah blah whatever, LED+heater is still going to use less energy and be more visible than incandescent, this is a failure to perfectly anticipate installation conditions, not some green boondoggle.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593838</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595610</id>
	<title>Re:I don't get the colorblind comment...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259862840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In some places there are single-lens lights that blink at intersections - the ones I saw were blinking yellow as a caution warning, or blinking red as a stop-sign.  We were traveling through Texas at night, and my colorblind dad kept waking me up to tell him the color of these intersection lights, since without multiple lenses, he couldn't know.  I wouldn't be surprised if these lights changed color during daylight hours, instead of having a lens for each color.  This was long before LED's were common though.</p><p>Summary:  Better snow shields above the lenses.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In some places there are single-lens lights that blink at intersections - the ones I saw were blinking yellow as a caution warning , or blinking red as a stop-sign .
We were traveling through Texas at night , and my colorblind dad kept waking me up to tell him the color of these intersection lights , since without multiple lenses , he could n't know .
I would n't be surprised if these lights changed color during daylight hours , instead of having a lens for each color .
This was long before LED 's were common though.Summary : Better snow shields above the lenses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In some places there are single-lens lights that blink at intersections - the ones I saw were blinking yellow as a caution warning, or blinking red as a stop-sign.
We were traveling through Texas at night, and my colorblind dad kept waking me up to tell him the color of these intersection lights, since without multiple lenses, he couldn't know.
I wouldn't be surprised if these lights changed color during daylight hours, instead of having a lens for each color.
This was long before LED's were common though.Summary:  Better snow shields above the lenses.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593772</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596336</id>
	<title>Change them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259865060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Apparently those lights are not designed to work in the area they are used.<br>Change them to lights that are designed to work in your environment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Apparently those lights are not designed to work in the area they are used.Change them to lights that are designed to work in your environment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Apparently those lights are not designed to work in the area they are used.Change them to lights that are designed to work in your environment.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594230</id>
	<title>Re:Tell that to</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1259858640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sure.</p><p>Are we suppose to halt all progress every time someone dies? Sorry, but I am tired of stupid people  not behaving appropriately stopping all progress.</p><p>I knwo it's not her fault, and she is the victim. If the Hindenburg accident happened to day there would be a call to stop all aeronautical endeavors.</p><p>It's the fault of a bad driver. Fine her, take her license away, throw her in jail if deemed appropriate. Even if she had the right of way there is still no excuse for hitting a pedestrian.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure.Are we suppose to halt all progress every time someone dies ?
Sorry , but I am tired of stupid people not behaving appropriately stopping all progress.I knwo it 's not her fault , and she is the victim .
If the Hindenburg accident happened to day there would be a call to stop all aeronautical endeavors.It 's the fault of a bad driver .
Fine her , take her license away , throw her in jail if deemed appropriate .
Even if she had the right of way there is still no excuse for hitting a pedestrian .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure.Are we suppose to halt all progress every time someone dies?
Sorry, but I am tired of stupid people  not behaving appropriately stopping all progress.I knwo it's not her fault, and she is the victim.
If the Hindenburg accident happened to day there would be a call to stop all aeronautical endeavors.It's the fault of a bad driver.
Fine her, take her license away, throw her in jail if deemed appropriate.
Even if she had the right of way there is still no excuse for hitting a pedestrian.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593668</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596346</id>
	<title>Re:duh</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259865060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the weather is such that it coats ice and snow to that degree, it's rather unlikely that ANYONE even SHOULD be driving in it unless they happen to have a badge.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the weather is such that it coats ice and snow to that degree , it 's rather unlikely that ANYONE even SHOULD be driving in it unless they happen to have a badge .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the weather is such that it coats ice and snow to that degree, it's rather unlikely that ANYONE even SHOULD be driving in it unless they happen to have a badge.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594492</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594474</id>
	<title>How meny people get red light ticks from this?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259859360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How many people get red light ticks from this?</p><p>Even if you act like it's a 4 way stop you can get hit with a $100+ ticket.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How many people get red light ticks from this ? Even if you act like it 's a 4 way stop you can get hit with a $ 100 + ticket .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How many people get red light ticks from this?Even if you act like it's a 4 way stop you can get hit with a $100+ ticket.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594244</id>
	<title>2 weeks ago...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259858700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/17/led-traffic-lights-dont-melt-snow-do-cause-accidents/</p><p>-\_-</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.engadget.com/2009/12/17/led-traffic-lights-dont-melt-snow-do-cause-accidents/- \ _-</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/17/led-traffic-lights-dont-melt-snow-do-cause-accidents/-\_-</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30599330</id>
	<title>gas</title>
	<author>pbjones</author>
	<datestamp>1259833740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>all of our lights should be gas powered with mechanical shutters to change which lamp is visible. And we could have a small booth with each intersection that housed a person to operate the signals, giving them employment and shelter in winter. As for the LED lights, a bit of research would have helped, it's not as if the entire world suddenly woke up to find LEDs instead of incandescent globe, offs!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>all of our lights should be gas powered with mechanical shutters to change which lamp is visible .
And we could have a small booth with each intersection that housed a person to operate the signals , giving them employment and shelter in winter .
As for the LED lights , a bit of research would have helped , it 's not as if the entire world suddenly woke up to find LEDs instead of incandescent globe , offs !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>all of our lights should be gas powered with mechanical shutters to change which lamp is visible.
And we could have a small booth with each intersection that housed a person to operate the signals, giving them employment and shelter in winter.
As for the LED lights, a bit of research would have helped, it's not as if the entire world suddenly woke up to find LEDs instead of incandescent globe, offs!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593716</id>
	<title>They bought the lights to save money...</title>
	<author>BobMcD</author>
	<datestamp>1259856900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...and not because they are green.  Having to heat them to melt the snow will mean less savings, which may well mean they switch them back to incandescents.  Not exactly rocket science.  Ironic, but mostly simple economics.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...and not because they are green .
Having to heat them to melt the snow will mean less savings , which may well mean they switch them back to incandescents .
Not exactly rocket science .
Ironic , but mostly simple economics .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...and not because they are green.
Having to heat them to melt the snow will mean less savings, which may well mean they switch them back to incandescents.
Not exactly rocket science.
Ironic, but mostly simple economics.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595476</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm...</title>
	<author>BrianRoach</author>
	<datestamp>1259862420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Also in the Denver Metro<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p><p>The snow we got a couple weeks ago was of the "wet" variety, and my wife and I noticed a couple lights out here with the problem being described. One was such so that you could not tell what the state of the signal was; all the lights were stuffed with snow.</p><p>However, possessing common sense<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... we slowed down as we approached the intersection, and only proceeded when it was clear we weren't going to get slammed into by someone.</p><p>I actually knew right away the "why" (LEDs) and commented to her that they're going to have to do something about that. I still think there's probably a way to engineer the physical housings so it is at least less likely to occur, but at the same time<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... the biggest problem is *people*.   God forbid they should have to slow down and pay attention.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Also in the Denver Metro ...The snow we got a couple weeks ago was of the " wet " variety , and my wife and I noticed a couple lights out here with the problem being described .
One was such so that you could not tell what the state of the signal was ; all the lights were stuffed with snow.However , possessing common sense ... we slowed down as we approached the intersection , and only proceeded when it was clear we were n't going to get slammed into by someone.I actually knew right away the " why " ( LEDs ) and commented to her that they 're going to have to do something about that .
I still think there 's probably a way to engineer the physical housings so it is at least less likely to occur , but at the same time ... the biggest problem is * people * .
God forbid they should have to slow down and pay attention .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also in the Denver Metro ...The snow we got a couple weeks ago was of the "wet" variety, and my wife and I noticed a couple lights out here with the problem being described.
One was such so that you could not tell what the state of the signal was; all the lights were stuffed with snow.However, possessing common sense ... we slowed down as we approached the intersection, and only proceeded when it was clear we weren't going to get slammed into by someone.I actually knew right away the "why" (LEDs) and commented to her that they're going to have to do something about that.
I still think there's probably a way to engineer the physical housings so it is at least less likely to occur, but at the same time ... the biggest problem is *people*.
God forbid they should have to slow down and pay attention.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593704</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594320</id>
	<title>Re:They bought the lights to save money...</title>
	<author>Guysmiley777</author>
	<datestamp>1259858940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, for one you wouldn't need to heat them that often, if at all. These are the same cities that need to maintain fleets of snow removal equipment, having to occasionally brush off a lens isn't the end of the world.</p><p>Secondly, bulb life. What does it cost in labor to maintain incandescent bulbs versus LED bulbs? Not sure if it's significant or not.</p><p>And then how often do northern cities get hit with snow and winds strong enough to clog up traffic lights? As a North Dakota native I can say "Not very often".  Honestly the only lights I've ever seen obscured by snow were from getting plastered FROM snowplows kicking up snow.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , for one you would n't need to heat them that often , if at all .
These are the same cities that need to maintain fleets of snow removal equipment , having to occasionally brush off a lens is n't the end of the world.Secondly , bulb life .
What does it cost in labor to maintain incandescent bulbs versus LED bulbs ?
Not sure if it 's significant or not.And then how often do northern cities get hit with snow and winds strong enough to clog up traffic lights ?
As a North Dakota native I can say " Not very often " .
Honestly the only lights I 've ever seen obscured by snow were from getting plastered FROM snowplows kicking up snow .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, for one you wouldn't need to heat them that often, if at all.
These are the same cities that need to maintain fleets of snow removal equipment, having to occasionally brush off a lens isn't the end of the world.Secondly, bulb life.
What does it cost in labor to maintain incandescent bulbs versus LED bulbs?
Not sure if it's significant or not.And then how often do northern cities get hit with snow and winds strong enough to clog up traffic lights?
As a North Dakota native I can say "Not very often".
Honestly the only lights I've ever seen obscured by snow were from getting plastered FROM snowplows kicking up snow.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593716</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593702</id>
	<title>Re:heating element</title>
	<author>mariushm</author>
	<datestamp>1259856900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>An article said changing to LED lights in an intersection brought about 100$ a month economy in electricity costs, for that particular intersection.</p><p>It would cost several hundred dollars to make changes to the semaphores (like changing the regular glass to glass with wire inside that would heat it and have sensors that would turn on the heating elements only when needed). Some towns only get that heavy snow once every few years or for just a few days each winter so when you think about it, it's cheaper to just send people with brooms to clean them when needed. If drivers would have more common sense and be more careful, there wouldn't be any accidents.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>An article said changing to LED lights in an intersection brought about 100 $ a month economy in electricity costs , for that particular intersection.It would cost several hundred dollars to make changes to the semaphores ( like changing the regular glass to glass with wire inside that would heat it and have sensors that would turn on the heating elements only when needed ) .
Some towns only get that heavy snow once every few years or for just a few days each winter so when you think about it , it 's cheaper to just send people with brooms to clean them when needed .
If drivers would have more common sense and be more careful , there would n't be any accidents .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An article said changing to LED lights in an intersection brought about 100$ a month economy in electricity costs, for that particular intersection.It would cost several hundred dollars to make changes to the semaphores (like changing the regular glass to glass with wire inside that would heat it and have sensors that would turn on the heating elements only when needed).
Some towns only get that heavy snow once every few years or for just a few days each winter so when you think about it, it's cheaper to just send people with brooms to clean them when needed.
If drivers would have more common sense and be more careful, there wouldn't be any accidents.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593488</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594072</id>
	<title>Re:New design needed?</title>
	<author>ilsaloving</author>
	<datestamp>1259858040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In toronto, most traffic lights (and most other signals like pedestrian lights, etc) have metal hoods over light so that the snow has something to pile on, while still permitting full visibility.</p><p>This seems like such an obvious no-brainer that I'm having difficulty believing that traffic lights in the states don't do this by default as well.</p><p>Maybe there's a patent troll holding onto the idea?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In toronto , most traffic lights ( and most other signals like pedestrian lights , etc ) have metal hoods over light so that the snow has something to pile on , while still permitting full visibility.This seems like such an obvious no-brainer that I 'm having difficulty believing that traffic lights in the states do n't do this by default as well.Maybe there 's a patent troll holding onto the idea ?
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In toronto, most traffic lights (and most other signals like pedestrian lights, etc) have metal hoods over light so that the snow has something to pile on, while still permitting full visibility.This seems like such an obvious no-brainer that I'm having difficulty believing that traffic lights in the states don't do this by default as well.Maybe there's a patent troll holding onto the idea?
:)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594240</id>
	<title>In Canada...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259858640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We have LED lights all over the place. Keep in mind this is the fucking ice and snow kingdom now... Sometimes stop signs get completely covered in white gunk.<br>So in a land of ice and snow that covers everything in white shit from hell, we had to come up with a genius little device.<br>Wait for it...<br>Wait for it...</p><p>You're gonna love this one: A fucking roof.<br>No I'm serious, our lights have a little tin projection. Like a cylinder cut diagonally so that drivers can see the light and bird shit (or snow) can't hit it.</p><p>Need a picture? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Modern\_British\_LED\_Traffic\_Light.jpg<br>Yep it's British and probably has a hidden CCTV camera in each hood but same idea.</p><p>We even have electric heaters in/on our oil pans to pre-warm engine oil. Nifty eh?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We have LED lights all over the place .
Keep in mind this is the fucking ice and snow kingdom now... Sometimes stop signs get completely covered in white gunk.So in a land of ice and snow that covers everything in white shit from hell , we had to come up with a genius little device.Wait for it...Wait for it...You 're gon na love this one : A fucking roof.No I 'm serious , our lights have a little tin projection .
Like a cylinder cut diagonally so that drivers can see the light and bird shit ( or snow ) ca n't hit it.Need a picture ?
http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File : Modern \ _British \ _LED \ _Traffic \ _Light.jpgYep it 's British and probably has a hidden CCTV camera in each hood but same idea.We even have electric heaters in/on our oil pans to pre-warm engine oil .
Nifty eh ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We have LED lights all over the place.
Keep in mind this is the fucking ice and snow kingdom now... Sometimes stop signs get completely covered in white gunk.So in a land of ice and snow that covers everything in white shit from hell, we had to come up with a genius little device.Wait for it...Wait for it...You're gonna love this one: A fucking roof.No I'm serious, our lights have a little tin projection.
Like a cylinder cut diagonally so that drivers can see the light and bird shit (or snow) can't hit it.Need a picture?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Modern\_British\_LED\_Traffic\_Light.jpgYep it's British and probably has a hidden CCTV camera in each hood but same idea.We even have electric heaters in/on our oil pans to pre-warm engine oil.
Nifty eh?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595102</id>
	<title>Re:Propaganda?</title>
	<author>Culture20</author>
	<datestamp>1259861400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I read this and I almost immediately thought "propaganda." Why? A appeal to fear based on a insignificant and easily fixable event</p></div><p>You live in Florida, don't you?  <a href="http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1493394&amp;cid=30593528" title="slashdot.org">This</a> [slashdot.org] is the problem.  Side with snow thinks it's a stop-sign scenario where the light is out, while side without snow sees green.  Side without snow pulls out into traffic, pulling out slowly (icy road), side without snow can't stop in time (icy road), because they didn't expect someone to pull out on "red".  Local municipalities won't fix this until we make a big stink.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I read this and I almost immediately thought " propaganda .
" Why ?
A appeal to fear based on a insignificant and easily fixable eventYou live in Florida , do n't you ?
This [ slashdot.org ] is the problem .
Side with snow thinks it 's a stop-sign scenario where the light is out , while side without snow sees green .
Side without snow pulls out into traffic , pulling out slowly ( icy road ) , side without snow ca n't stop in time ( icy road ) , because they did n't expect someone to pull out on " red " .
Local municipalities wo n't fix this until we make a big stink .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I read this and I almost immediately thought "propaganda.
" Why?
A appeal to fear based on a insignificant and easily fixable eventYou live in Florida, don't you?
This [slashdot.org] is the problem.
Side with snow thinks it's a stop-sign scenario where the light is out, while side without snow sees green.
Side without snow pulls out into traffic, pulling out slowly (icy road), side without snow can't stop in time (icy road), because they didn't expect someone to pull out on "red".
Local municipalities won't fix this until we make a big stink.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593626</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30602142</id>
	<title>Re:whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>dosowski</author>
	<datestamp>1259853720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Consider this situation...  This is hypothetical but entirely possible, and *every intersection and driving situation is different in some way*, so please don't be so quick to judge with limited knowledge of what actually happened.  It's entirely possible to do everything right and still get into an accident.</p><p>Hypothetical situation:<br>The side that is covered in snow has a red light, and the cross traffic has a green light.  Perhaps this is at an intersection where the traffic lights were installed specifically because it is a difficult and low-visibility intersection.  The traffic with the green light may assume everything is normal with the lights and may be traveling *at full speed*.  A car on the "red" side treats it as a 4-way-stop situation, stops at the light, looks and doesn't see any traffic, and then goes.  Remember that if it's a limited visibility intersection and the cross traffic is going full speed (and is therefore some distance away from the intersection when the "red" car commits to going through the intersection), it's certainly possible that this driver could not possibly see the other car coming before it's too late.  Also consider that it recently snowed (or is still snowing), meaning the road is likely to be extremely slippery.  Even after the two cars see each other, the "green" car will have difficulty slowing down sufficiently to avoid hitting the "red" car.</p><p>I think this is a fairly realistic and possible situation, and in such a situation, the "green" car that had full visibility to the lights would be more to blame than the "red" car that can't clearly see the lights.  Obviously the "green" car would have now real way of knowing something was wrong with the lights on the other side, but in such a situation (recent snow, slippery roads, etc.), they drive slower and more cautiously as they approach intersections.</p><p>On your comment about making sure the other guy will yield, it's entirely possible that at the time you're starting to go through the intersection, there might not even be "another guy" to consider until you're already in the middle of the intersection, if the "other guy" is driving at full speed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Consider this situation... This is hypothetical but entirely possible , and * every intersection and driving situation is different in some way * , so please do n't be so quick to judge with limited knowledge of what actually happened .
It 's entirely possible to do everything right and still get into an accident.Hypothetical situation : The side that is covered in snow has a red light , and the cross traffic has a green light .
Perhaps this is at an intersection where the traffic lights were installed specifically because it is a difficult and low-visibility intersection .
The traffic with the green light may assume everything is normal with the lights and may be traveling * at full speed * .
A car on the " red " side treats it as a 4-way-stop situation , stops at the light , looks and does n't see any traffic , and then goes .
Remember that if it 's a limited visibility intersection and the cross traffic is going full speed ( and is therefore some distance away from the intersection when the " red " car commits to going through the intersection ) , it 's certainly possible that this driver could not possibly see the other car coming before it 's too late .
Also consider that it recently snowed ( or is still snowing ) , meaning the road is likely to be extremely slippery .
Even after the two cars see each other , the " green " car will have difficulty slowing down sufficiently to avoid hitting the " red " car.I think this is a fairly realistic and possible situation , and in such a situation , the " green " car that had full visibility to the lights would be more to blame than the " red " car that ca n't clearly see the lights .
Obviously the " green " car would have now real way of knowing something was wrong with the lights on the other side , but in such a situation ( recent snow , slippery roads , etc .
) , they drive slower and more cautiously as they approach intersections.On your comment about making sure the other guy will yield , it 's entirely possible that at the time you 're starting to go through the intersection , there might not even be " another guy " to consider until you 're already in the middle of the intersection , if the " other guy " is driving at full speed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Consider this situation...  This is hypothetical but entirely possible, and *every intersection and driving situation is different in some way*, so please don't be so quick to judge with limited knowledge of what actually happened.
It's entirely possible to do everything right and still get into an accident.Hypothetical situation:The side that is covered in snow has a red light, and the cross traffic has a green light.
Perhaps this is at an intersection where the traffic lights were installed specifically because it is a difficult and low-visibility intersection.
The traffic with the green light may assume everything is normal with the lights and may be traveling *at full speed*.
A car on the "red" side treats it as a 4-way-stop situation, stops at the light, looks and doesn't see any traffic, and then goes.
Remember that if it's a limited visibility intersection and the cross traffic is going full speed (and is therefore some distance away from the intersection when the "red" car commits to going through the intersection), it's certainly possible that this driver could not possibly see the other car coming before it's too late.
Also consider that it recently snowed (or is still snowing), meaning the road is likely to be extremely slippery.
Even after the two cars see each other, the "green" car will have difficulty slowing down sufficiently to avoid hitting the "red" car.I think this is a fairly realistic and possible situation, and in such a situation, the "green" car that had full visibility to the lights would be more to blame than the "red" car that can't clearly see the lights.
Obviously the "green" car would have now real way of knowing something was wrong with the lights on the other side, but in such a situation (recent snow, slippery roads, etc.
), they drive slower and more cautiously as they approach intersections.On your comment about making sure the other guy will yield, it's entirely possible that at the time you're starting to go through the intersection, there might not even be "another guy" to consider until you're already in the middle of the intersection, if the "other guy" is driving at full speed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596254</id>
	<title>Re:Additional helpful(?) suggestions</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259864820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Railroads already have a form of this: in-cab signaling. The only problem: you'd have to require every single road user--driver, bicyclist, or pedestrian--to have a signaling device. You'd have to issue every single person a portable/rechargeable signaler to tell them when to cross the street.</p><p>Ever wondered why Amtrak has so many trains going 79 mph? The FRA requires in-cab signaling at 80 mph.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Railroads already have a form of this : in-cab signaling .
The only problem : you 'd have to require every single road user--driver , bicyclist , or pedestrian--to have a signaling device .
You 'd have to issue every single person a portable/rechargeable signaler to tell them when to cross the street.Ever wondered why Amtrak has so many trains going 79 mph ?
The FRA requires in-cab signaling at 80 mph .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Railroads already have a form of this: in-cab signaling.
The only problem: you'd have to require every single road user--driver, bicyclist, or pedestrian--to have a signaling device.
You'd have to issue every single person a portable/rechargeable signaler to tell them when to cross the street.Ever wondered why Amtrak has so many trains going 79 mph?
The FRA requires in-cab signaling at 80 mph.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595384</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594344</id>
	<title>Prototype solution is around for this problem</title>
	<author>landoltjp</author>
	<datestamp>1259859000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While I can't say that this is a solved problem, it does appear to be a common one, particularly where it's cold / snowy.  I'm betting not too many people from Arizona are in on a solution.</p><p>This person has prototyped a solution for LED vehicle lights as well as traffic lights (makes sense as they suffer from the same problem) - <a href="http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/heated\_20traffic\_20light\_20lens" title="halfbakery.com">heated traffic light lens</a> [halfbakery.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While I ca n't say that this is a solved problem , it does appear to be a common one , particularly where it 's cold / snowy .
I 'm betting not too many people from Arizona are in on a solution.This person has prototyped a solution for LED vehicle lights as well as traffic lights ( makes sense as they suffer from the same problem ) - heated traffic light lens [ halfbakery.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While I can't say that this is a solved problem, it does appear to be a common one, particularly where it's cold / snowy.
I'm betting not too many people from Arizona are in on a solution.This person has prototyped a solution for LED vehicle lights as well as traffic lights (makes sense as they suffer from the same problem) - heated traffic light lens [halfbakery.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597886</id>
	<title>Re:whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259870940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seeing as how the town I'm in has LED lights and uses the 3rd light as both green and a turn signal when the cycle needs one, I'm going to go ahead and say that you're completely wrong.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seeing as how the town I 'm in has LED lights and uses the 3rd light as both green and a turn signal when the cycle needs one , I 'm going to go ahead and say that you 're completely wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seeing as how the town I'm in has LED lights and uses the 3rd light as both green and a turn signal when the cycle needs one, I'm going to go ahead and say that you're completely wrong.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595800</id>
	<title>Re:whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>Bender0x7D1</author>
	<datestamp>1259863380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal.</i> </p><p>Wrong.  If there is a set of lights for a turning lane, the 3-light stack can be: red, yellow and turn arrow.  I have one of those lights on the way home from work.  Right after a heavy snowfall, there is generally only a single set of tire tracks down the middle of the multi-lane road, so you can't really tell the light is for the turn lane.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal .
Wrong. If there is a set of lights for a turning lane , the 3-light stack can be : red , yellow and turn arrow .
I have one of those lights on the way home from work .
Right after a heavy snowfall , there is generally only a single set of tire tracks down the middle of the multi-lane road , so you ca n't really tell the light is for the turn lane .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal.
Wrong.  If there is a set of lights for a turning lane, the 3-light stack can be: red, yellow and turn arrow.
I have one of those lights on the way home from work.
Right after a heavy snowfall, there is generally only a single set of tire tracks down the middle of the multi-lane road, so you can't really tell the light is for the turn lane.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597732</id>
	<title>Stop signs?</title>
	<author>andy1307</author>
	<datestamp>1259870340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Isn't this a problem with stop signs? Don't stop signs get covered with snow?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is n't this a problem with stop signs ?
Do n't stop signs get covered with snow ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn't this a problem with stop signs?
Don't stop signs get covered with snow?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30600570</id>
	<title>Slashdot:  More heat than light</title>
	<author>uassholes</author>
	<datestamp>1259841000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So maybe Chicago just bought some shitty fixtures and it doesn't have anything to do with what kind of lamp is burning.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So maybe Chicago just bought some shitty fixtures and it does n't have anything to do with what kind of lamp is burning .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So maybe Chicago just bought some shitty fixtures and it doesn't have anything to do with what kind of lamp is burning.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596400</id>
	<title>Re:duh</title>
	<author>VisiX</author>
	<datestamp>1259865240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Try again, I have snow on the underside of my gutters.  CNY FTW.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Try again , I have snow on the underside of my gutters .
CNY FTW .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try again, I have snow on the underside of my gutters.
CNY FTW.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593490</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594858</id>
	<title>Re:whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259860560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You must live in the hicks!  Here we only see that when it isn't possible to go straight, either because the road forks, or because it merges with a one way.  The turn signal light is often a fourth lite, sometimes below the green, but often to the left or right, depending on arrow direction, of the green.  When I was young, I once visited a town in a very rural area that only had one light...and it was a blinker.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You must live in the hicks !
Here we only see that when it is n't possible to go straight , either because the road forks , or because it merges with a one way .
The turn signal light is often a fourth lite , sometimes below the green , but often to the left or right , depending on arrow direction , of the green .
When I was young , I once visited a town in a very rural area that only had one light...and it was a blinker .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You must live in the hicks!
Here we only see that when it isn't possible to go straight, either because the road forks, or because it merges with a one way.
The turn signal light is often a fourth lite, sometimes below the green, but often to the left or right, depending on arrow direction, of the green.
When I was young, I once visited a town in a very rural area that only had one light...and it was a blinker.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593866</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595642</id>
	<title>Re:Good Advice</title>
	<author>girlintraining</author>
	<datestamp>1259862900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If you're not sure to stop or go, the answer is "stop". I can understand if it's dark and you don't see the traffic lights because they're covered with snow, but if the lights at the intersection aren't working, that doesn't mean the light is green. It means stop and go when it's safe to.</p></div><p>Yeah, and will the guy who's behind you and looking at the green light instead of your bumper notice your brake lights in time? Or how about the case where the lights in one direction are working, but not the other -- I saw this happen after a lightning storm and immediately called 911 to inform them of how the fail-safe mode wasn't. I can think of dozens of situations in which the proper functioning of the traffic control system would be a superior solution to "just stop and wait."</p><p>You seem to forget that there are two sets of rules of the road: The one on the books, and the ones we use on the road. In the ladder case, doing something unexpected (though legal) is often a greater risk than doing something expected, but illegal. Especially since most people tailgate, speed, and don't leave themselves nearly enough time to switch off their mental autopilot in the event of an unexpected situation -- which is how a lot of accidents happen.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're not sure to stop or go , the answer is " stop " .
I can understand if it 's dark and you do n't see the traffic lights because they 're covered with snow , but if the lights at the intersection are n't working , that does n't mean the light is green .
It means stop and go when it 's safe to.Yeah , and will the guy who 's behind you and looking at the green light instead of your bumper notice your brake lights in time ?
Or how about the case where the lights in one direction are working , but not the other -- I saw this happen after a lightning storm and immediately called 911 to inform them of how the fail-safe mode was n't .
I can think of dozens of situations in which the proper functioning of the traffic control system would be a superior solution to " just stop and wait .
" You seem to forget that there are two sets of rules of the road : The one on the books , and the ones we use on the road .
In the ladder case , doing something unexpected ( though legal ) is often a greater risk than doing something expected , but illegal .
Especially since most people tailgate , speed , and do n't leave themselves nearly enough time to switch off their mental autopilot in the event of an unexpected situation -- which is how a lot of accidents happen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're not sure to stop or go, the answer is "stop".
I can understand if it's dark and you don't see the traffic lights because they're covered with snow, but if the lights at the intersection aren't working, that doesn't mean the light is green.
It means stop and go when it's safe to.Yeah, and will the guy who's behind you and looking at the green light instead of your bumper notice your brake lights in time?
Or how about the case where the lights in one direction are working, but not the other -- I saw this happen after a lightning storm and immediately called 911 to inform them of how the fail-safe mode wasn't.
I can think of dozens of situations in which the proper functioning of the traffic control system would be a superior solution to "just stop and wait.
"You seem to forget that there are two sets of rules of the road: The one on the books, and the ones we use on the road.
In the ladder case, doing something unexpected (though legal) is often a greater risk than doing something expected, but illegal.
Especially since most people tailgate, speed, and don't leave themselves nearly enough time to switch off their mental autopilot in the event of an unexpected situation -- which is how a lot of accidents happen.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593470</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594424</id>
	<title>Re:Double whammy</title>
	<author>Wonko the Sane</author>
	<datestamp>1259859240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>After having lived my first 30 years in Florida and now living in Ohio the past 10 I have a theory about Northern drivers... And that's why the drivers around here are so damn bad during the Winter.</p></div></blockquote><p>I've lived in Kansas, South Carolina, New York, Conneticut, Oklahoma and Texas.</p><p>Trust me, Texas drivers are <em>by far</em> the worst when it comes to driving in the snow. Maybe the drivers in Ohio get restricted blood flow to their brains when the snow falls, but the brains of native Texans shut down completely.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>After having lived my first 30 years in Florida and now living in Ohio the past 10 I have a theory about Northern drivers... And that 's why the drivers around here are so damn bad during the Winter.I 've lived in Kansas , South Carolina , New York , Conneticut , Oklahoma and Texas.Trust me , Texas drivers are by far the worst when it comes to driving in the snow .
Maybe the drivers in Ohio get restricted blood flow to their brains when the snow falls , but the brains of native Texans shut down completely .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After having lived my first 30 years in Florida and now living in Ohio the past 10 I have a theory about Northern drivers... And that's why the drivers around here are so damn bad during the Winter.I've lived in Kansas, South Carolina, New York, Conneticut, Oklahoma and Texas.Trust me, Texas drivers are by far the worst when it comes to driving in the snow.
Maybe the drivers in Ohio get restricted blood flow to their brains when the snow falls, but the brains of native Texans shut down completely.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593660</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594500</id>
	<title>Loxanne</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259859360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You don't have to put on the LED light</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You do n't have to put on the LED light</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You don't have to put on the LED light</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595810</id>
	<title>Re:duh</title>
	<author>infinite9</author>
	<datestamp>1259863440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Snow can do some amazing things.</p><p>http://thumb7.shutterstock.com.edgesuite.net/display\_pic\_with\_logo/4676/4676,1174002470,1/stock-photo-snow-covered-stop-sign-and-blue-cloudy-sky-2882411.jpg</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Snow can do some amazing things.http : //thumb7.shutterstock.com.edgesuite.net/display \ _pic \ _with \ _logo/4676/4676,1174002470,1/stock-photo-snow-covered-stop-sign-and-blue-cloudy-sky-2882411.jpg</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Snow can do some amazing things.http://thumb7.shutterstock.com.edgesuite.net/display\_pic\_with\_logo/4676/4676,1174002470,1/stock-photo-snow-covered-stop-sign-and-blue-cloudy-sky-2882411.jpg</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593490</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597220</id>
	<title>The problem is in the housing that holds the light</title>
	<author>crovira</author>
	<datestamp>1259868240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The lights get covered with snow because of the cover of the lower bulbs.</p><p>In a bad storm, one with a snow fall greater than the thermal capacity of the lights to heat up the bulb shield, snow piles up.</p><p>Now that municipalities are using LED lights, the thermal capacity in almost nil.</p><p>BUT LEDs are's subject to the omni-directionality of the incandescent bulbs they're replacing so the shields aren't required.</p><p>Its a problem of retrofitting without having considered that the replacement LEDs need to be sunk in, covered with a glass plate and come flush with the edge of the old light box.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The lights get covered with snow because of the cover of the lower bulbs.In a bad storm , one with a snow fall greater than the thermal capacity of the lights to heat up the bulb shield , snow piles up.Now that municipalities are using LED lights , the thermal capacity in almost nil.BUT LEDs are 's subject to the omni-directionality of the incandescent bulbs they 're replacing so the shields are n't required.Its a problem of retrofitting without having considered that the replacement LEDs need to be sunk in , covered with a glass plate and come flush with the edge of the old light box .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The lights get covered with snow because of the cover of the lower bulbs.In a bad storm, one with a snow fall greater than the thermal capacity of the lights to heat up the bulb shield, snow piles up.Now that municipalities are using LED lights, the thermal capacity in almost nil.BUT LEDs are's subject to the omni-directionality of the incandescent bulbs they're replacing so the shields aren't required.Its a problem of retrofitting without having considered that the replacement LEDs need to be sunk in, covered with a glass plate and come flush with the edge of the old light box.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30600026</id>
	<title>Works just fine in Sweden 10 years now</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259837580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We have had LED traffic lights in Sweden for over 10 years now.</p><p>I have never seen one blocked by snow, and never heard of any cases where there were problems like these.<br>And we get plenty of snow here.</p><p>Sounds like the Americans are just buying crappy lights, or maybe the wrong models.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We have had LED traffic lights in Sweden for over 10 years now.I have never seen one blocked by snow , and never heard of any cases where there were problems like these.And we get plenty of snow here.Sounds like the Americans are just buying crappy lights , or maybe the wrong models .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We have had LED traffic lights in Sweden for over 10 years now.I have never seen one blocked by snow, and never heard of any cases where there were problems like these.And we get plenty of snow here.Sounds like the Americans are just buying crappy lights, or maybe the wrong models.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594298</id>
	<title>How many lives have been lost to regular lights?</title>
	<author>DrXym</author>
	<datestamp>1259858880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If LED bulbs last longer than incandescents it follows that incandescent traffic lights are out of service or faulty more often as a result. So how many people have been killed due to faulty lights?
<p>
It may well be that in some circumstances LED bulbs are not suitable, or need to be augmented by heating elements, but if they are more reliable at other times they may be safer overall.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If LED bulbs last longer than incandescents it follows that incandescent traffic lights are out of service or faulty more often as a result .
So how many people have been killed due to faulty lights ?
It may well be that in some circumstances LED bulbs are not suitable , or need to be augmented by heating elements , but if they are more reliable at other times they may be safer overall .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If LED bulbs last longer than incandescents it follows that incandescent traffic lights are out of service or faulty more often as a result.
So how many people have been killed due to faulty lights?
It may well be that in some circumstances LED bulbs are not suitable, or need to be augmented by heating elements, but if they are more reliable at other times they may be safer overall.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594672</id>
	<title>burn brighter, last longer and use 90\% less energy</title>
	<author>Culture20</author>
	<datestamp>1259860020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So, if you lose energy efficiency by adding heating coils, the "brighter (safer)" and "longer lasting" don't give enough reason to buy?</htmltext>
<tokenext>So , if you lose energy efficiency by adding heating coils , the " brighter ( safer ) " and " longer lasting " do n't give enough reason to buy ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, if you lose energy efficiency by adding heating coils, the "brighter (safer)" and "longer lasting" don't give enough reason to buy?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594192</id>
	<title>Here in Canada</title>
	<author>theReal-Hp\_Sauce</author>
	<datestamp>1259858520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here in Canada we get a fair amount of snow, from time to time, and we do have those LED street lights in quite a few places.  Yet, in 8 years of driving, I have \_never\_ seen this snow covering problem.  Either I've just been really lucky, or there must be a difference in design?</p><p>Our traffic lights all have round pieces of metal over the top of each light (like the brim of a baseball cap).  I always assumed these were there to prevent the sun from glaring off the light and making them impossible to see... but maybe it is in fact to keep the snow off?</p><p>I also always assumed these little 'hats' were universal across North America.  Do they have these in the Midwest?</p><p>-hps</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here in Canada we get a fair amount of snow , from time to time , and we do have those LED street lights in quite a few places .
Yet , in 8 years of driving , I have \ _never \ _ seen this snow covering problem .
Either I 've just been really lucky , or there must be a difference in design ? Our traffic lights all have round pieces of metal over the top of each light ( like the brim of a baseball cap ) .
I always assumed these were there to prevent the sun from glaring off the light and making them impossible to see... but maybe it is in fact to keep the snow off ? I also always assumed these little 'hats ' were universal across North America .
Do they have these in the Midwest ? -hps</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here in Canada we get a fair amount of snow, from time to time, and we do have those LED street lights in quite a few places.
Yet, in 8 years of driving, I have \_never\_ seen this snow covering problem.
Either I've just been really lucky, or there must be a difference in design?Our traffic lights all have round pieces of metal over the top of each light (like the brim of a baseball cap).
I always assumed these were there to prevent the sun from glaring off the light and making them impossible to see... but maybe it is in fact to keep the snow off?I also always assumed these little 'hats' were universal across North America.
Do they have these in the Midwest?-hps</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30598232</id>
	<title>Re:So here's an idea</title>
	<author>maxume</author>
	<datestamp>1259872200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because you can add a heater, still use less energy, and also save piles of money on bulb replacements (bulbs, labor, etc)?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because you can add a heater , still use less energy , and also save piles of money on bulb replacements ( bulbs , labor , etc ) ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because you can add a heater, still use less energy, and also save piles of money on bulb replacements (bulbs, labor, etc)?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594052</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30599796</id>
	<title>What about the black cover around it?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259836140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I live in Kansas City and here the traffic lights have a black cover coming out of it that not just makes it impossible for snow to get to the light, but also creates a shadow to make sure the sun light doesn't make it seem on when it's off.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I live in Kansas City and here the traffic lights have a black cover coming out of it that not just makes it impossible for snow to get to the light , but also creates a shadow to make sure the sun light does n't make it seem on when it 's off .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I live in Kansas City and here the traffic lights have a black cover coming out of it that not just makes it impossible for snow to get to the light, but also creates a shadow to make sure the sun light doesn't make it seem on when it's off.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597244</id>
	<title>Re:Why is colorblindness mentioned?</title>
	<author>hazem</author>
	<datestamp>1259868360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Red-green colorblindness should not affect the ability of a person to correctly observe a traffic light.</i></p><p>Under ideal conditions, you're correct.  (But this whole article is about non-ideal conditions)</p><p>I have some color blindness and I can describe the problem I have.  When it's raining and at night, it's difficult for me to tell a green light (non LED) from a nearby street illumination light (from a distance).  I know that sounds crazy.  Because it's dark, it's hard to see the rectangular enclosure, so I can't tell by the green-light's position.  Only after it's changed to yellow then red can I tell which light was the illumination light and which was the green light.</p><p>And I can't just assume that lack of a yellow or red means I have the green, because it might be burned out.</p><p>The new LED lights use a different color of green that has a higher blue component that makes them completely obvious.  Plus the LED lights are more intense than the other lights.  This may be due to the light from an LED being a smaller set of frequencies (or a single one?) compared to a filtered incandescent, though I really don't know much about the physics of LEDs.</p><p>So, I expect it was mentioned in this context because when it's dark it's harder to tell the position of the green light against the dark enclosure, especially when there are nearby white lights.  And the blue-green used makes them easier to see.  At least that's my experience.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Red-green colorblindness should not affect the ability of a person to correctly observe a traffic light.Under ideal conditions , you 're correct .
( But this whole article is about non-ideal conditions ) I have some color blindness and I can describe the problem I have .
When it 's raining and at night , it 's difficult for me to tell a green light ( non LED ) from a nearby street illumination light ( from a distance ) .
I know that sounds crazy .
Because it 's dark , it 's hard to see the rectangular enclosure , so I ca n't tell by the green-light 's position .
Only after it 's changed to yellow then red can I tell which light was the illumination light and which was the green light.And I ca n't just assume that lack of a yellow or red means I have the green , because it might be burned out.The new LED lights use a different color of green that has a higher blue component that makes them completely obvious .
Plus the LED lights are more intense than the other lights .
This may be due to the light from an LED being a smaller set of frequencies ( or a single one ?
) compared to a filtered incandescent , though I really do n't know much about the physics of LEDs.So , I expect it was mentioned in this context because when it 's dark it 's harder to tell the position of the green light against the dark enclosure , especially when there are nearby white lights .
And the blue-green used makes them easier to see .
At least that 's my experience .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Red-green colorblindness should not affect the ability of a person to correctly observe a traffic light.Under ideal conditions, you're correct.
(But this whole article is about non-ideal conditions)I have some color blindness and I can describe the problem I have.
When it's raining and at night, it's difficult for me to tell a green light (non LED) from a nearby street illumination light (from a distance).
I know that sounds crazy.
Because it's dark, it's hard to see the rectangular enclosure, so I can't tell by the green-light's position.
Only after it's changed to yellow then red can I tell which light was the illumination light and which was the green light.And I can't just assume that lack of a yellow or red means I have the green, because it might be burned out.The new LED lights use a different color of green that has a higher blue component that makes them completely obvious.
Plus the LED lights are more intense than the other lights.
This may be due to the light from an LED being a smaller set of frequencies (or a single one?
) compared to a filtered incandescent, though I really don't know much about the physics of LEDs.So, I expect it was mentioned in this context because when it's dark it's harder to tell the position of the green light against the dark enclosure, especially when there are nearby white lights.
And the blue-green used makes them easier to see.
At least that's my experience.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596002</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596374</id>
	<title>lets think for a second</title>
	<author>fulldecent</author>
	<datestamp>1259865120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>ok -- so this technology has failed.</p><p>since the savings is from the energy use of the bulb, one solution would be to have LED and incandescent bulbs together, and switch when necessary.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>ok -- so this technology has failed.since the savings is from the energy use of the bulb , one solution would be to have LED and incandescent bulbs together , and switch when necessary .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ok -- so this technology has failed.since the savings is from the energy use of the bulb, one solution would be to have LED and incandescent bulbs together, and switch when necessary.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594534</id>
	<title>Old News</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259859480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Really? this was all over the news a month ago. I hate seeing old news in my feeds, and 90\% of it comes from Slashdot.<br>What happen? you used to be cool.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Really ?
this was all over the news a month ago .
I hate seeing old news in my feeds , and 90 \ % of it comes from Slashdot.What happen ?
you used to be cool .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Really?
this was all over the news a month ago.
I hate seeing old news in my feeds, and 90\% of it comes from Slashdot.What happen?
you used to be cool.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597910</id>
	<title>Color-blindness and traffic lights...</title>
	<author>Caduceus1</author>
	<datestamp>1259871000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Let's ignore the positional arguments for now - yes, everyone SHOULD know that the light on top is the red one, etc. But it is obviously not the case. Some people are just not that smart.</p><p>I have always understood that the lenses which used to give lights their color, in the green case, was not really a pure green but had a tint of blue. This allowed those with green colorblindness to still distinguish the light from the others. However, it is VERY noticeable that the green LED lights are NOT the same color as the old lenses, but appear to be more of a true green. Is there a reason why they weren't made the same blue/green? Or did someone just forget?</p><p>It may be possible, if they can't produce a blended LED, to simply include some blue LEDs in the matrix as well, which should to most of us produce a blended color.</p><p>I have seen some red LED lights include a white flashing ring or center dot - this really brings attention to the light. Totally non-standard that I have seen though.</p><p>With the LED matrix lights, it is now quite simple to create shaped lights. A distinctive square or rectangular (would likely require redesigned light fixtures) design on the stop light would make it more distinguishable.</p><p>I remember the horizontal fixtures in Quebec - but I remember that the stop lights appeared on BOTH ends of the fixture - that is there were TWO lights on the outside when STOP.</p><p>What needs to happen now is standards for future replacements and new installations so that they can be ready in the future.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Let 's ignore the positional arguments for now - yes , everyone SHOULD know that the light on top is the red one , etc .
But it is obviously not the case .
Some people are just not that smart.I have always understood that the lenses which used to give lights their color , in the green case , was not really a pure green but had a tint of blue .
This allowed those with green colorblindness to still distinguish the light from the others .
However , it is VERY noticeable that the green LED lights are NOT the same color as the old lenses , but appear to be more of a true green .
Is there a reason why they were n't made the same blue/green ?
Or did someone just forget ? It may be possible , if they ca n't produce a blended LED , to simply include some blue LEDs in the matrix as well , which should to most of us produce a blended color.I have seen some red LED lights include a white flashing ring or center dot - this really brings attention to the light .
Totally non-standard that I have seen though.With the LED matrix lights , it is now quite simple to create shaped lights .
A distinctive square or rectangular ( would likely require redesigned light fixtures ) design on the stop light would make it more distinguishable.I remember the horizontal fixtures in Quebec - but I remember that the stop lights appeared on BOTH ends of the fixture - that is there were TWO lights on the outside when STOP.What needs to happen now is standards for future replacements and new installations so that they can be ready in the future .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let's ignore the positional arguments for now - yes, everyone SHOULD know that the light on top is the red one, etc.
But it is obviously not the case.
Some people are just not that smart.I have always understood that the lenses which used to give lights their color, in the green case, was not really a pure green but had a tint of blue.
This allowed those with green colorblindness to still distinguish the light from the others.
However, it is VERY noticeable that the green LED lights are NOT the same color as the old lenses, but appear to be more of a true green.
Is there a reason why they weren't made the same blue/green?
Or did someone just forget?It may be possible, if they can't produce a blended LED, to simply include some blue LEDs in the matrix as well, which should to most of us produce a blended color.I have seen some red LED lights include a white flashing ring or center dot - this really brings attention to the light.
Totally non-standard that I have seen though.With the LED matrix lights, it is now quite simple to create shaped lights.
A distinctive square or rectangular (would likely require redesigned light fixtures) design on the stop light would make it more distinguishable.I remember the horizontal fixtures in Quebec - but I remember that the stop lights appeared on BOTH ends of the fixture - that is there were TWO lights on the outside when STOP.What needs to happen now is standards for future replacements and new installations so that they can be ready in the future.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596894</id>
	<title>Re:gene bangert</title>
	<author>omnichad</author>
	<datestamp>1259867040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But for video cameras and IR sensitive eyes, that makes the green light look reddish.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But for video cameras and IR sensitive eyes , that makes the green light look reddish .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But for video cameras and IR sensitive eyes, that makes the green light look reddish.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594186</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597858</id>
	<title>Re:Simple</title>
	<author>maxume</author>
	<datestamp>1259870820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A simple thermostat wouldn't be enough to limit the heating to 5 or 6 days. At least not if it were set to activate at 32 F (it might work out of it were designed to activate at a lower temperature and then maintain a bit more than 32 F for some set period of time).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A simple thermostat would n't be enough to limit the heating to 5 or 6 days .
At least not if it were set to activate at 32 F ( it might work out of it were designed to activate at a lower temperature and then maintain a bit more than 32 F for some set period of time ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A simple thermostat wouldn't be enough to limit the heating to 5 or 6 days.
At least not if it were set to activate at 32 F (it might work out of it were designed to activate at a lower temperature and then maintain a bit more than 32 F for some set period of time).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594576</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595312</id>
	<title>TFA</title>
	<author>Kenoli</author>
	<datestamp>1259862000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>"Just because he can't see the light doesn't mean he can drive through the intersection without due caution," Richter said.</p></div><p>That.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Just because he ca n't see the light does n't mean he can drive through the intersection without due caution , " Richter said.That .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Just because he can't see the light doesn't mean he can drive through the intersection without due caution," Richter said.That.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30602608</id>
	<title>Re:Good Advice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259858160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Right, but as someone above pointed out, in the snow situation, only one side (or maybe two) thinks it's a four way, everyone else is following the lights.</p></div><p>Right. So when you can't tell, you stop. When you notice the cars on your left and right keep blazing right through the intersection, maybe... WAIT until they stop asshat, then you know that either you're green, or everyone is hosed, in which case the fact you've been waiting and they stopped means... it's your turn.</p><p>This isn't hard people.</p><p>And on a similar note, when you're at a 4-way stop it's just like playing cards, first guy goes, then the one on his left, etc. It's NOT OPPOSITE SIDES like most jerkoffs think.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Right , but as someone above pointed out , in the snow situation , only one side ( or maybe two ) thinks it 's a four way , everyone else is following the lights.Right .
So when you ca n't tell , you stop .
When you notice the cars on your left and right keep blazing right through the intersection , maybe... WAIT until they stop asshat , then you know that either you 're green , or everyone is hosed , in which case the fact you 've been waiting and they stopped means... it 's your turn.This is n't hard people.And on a similar note , when you 're at a 4-way stop it 's just like playing cards , first guy goes , then the one on his left , etc .
It 's NOT OPPOSITE SIDES like most jerkoffs think .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Right, but as someone above pointed out, in the snow situation, only one side (or maybe two) thinks it's a four way, everyone else is following the lights.Right.
So when you can't tell, you stop.
When you notice the cars on your left and right keep blazing right through the intersection, maybe... WAIT until they stop asshat, then you know that either you're green, or everyone is hosed, in which case the fact you've been waiting and they stopped means... it's your turn.This isn't hard people.And on a similar note, when you're at a 4-way stop it's just like playing cards, first guy goes, then the one on his left, etc.
It's NOT OPPOSITE SIDES like most jerkoffs think.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594722</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593970</id>
	<title>Introduce a nonindigenous species</title>
	<author>fortapocalypse</author>
	<datestamp>1259857740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well imports some lemurs to cuddle up next to each stoplight to keep them warm. In addition, they will get rid of the Australian cockroaches that were introduced to help with the stray breadcrumbs in the parks...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well imports some lemurs to cuddle up next to each stoplight to keep them warm .
In addition , they will get rid of the Australian cockroaches that were introduced to help with the stray breadcrumbs in the parks.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well imports some lemurs to cuddle up next to each stoplight to keep them warm.
In addition, they will get rid of the Australian cockroaches that were introduced to help with the stray breadcrumbs in the parks...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597532</id>
	<title>Re:whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>MarkvW</author>
	<datestamp>1259869620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Let's not forget the most basic entitlement of all:  The right of the people to bring down a government that does not give them the entitlements that they demand!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Let 's not forget the most basic entitlement of all : The right of the people to bring down a government that does not give them the entitlements that they demand !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let's not forget the most basic entitlement of all:  The right of the people to bring down a government that does not give them the entitlements that they demand!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593710</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596980</id>
	<title>Re:Simple</title>
	<author>Reziac</author>
	<datestamp>1259867400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh, I see. The actual exercise was to express "Penny wise, pound foolish" as a physics problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh , I see .
The actual exercise was to express " Penny wise , pound foolish " as a physics problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh, I see.
The actual exercise was to express "Penny wise, pound foolish" as a physics problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594576</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593606</id>
	<title>Re:Cover the fronts?</title>
	<author>navygeek</author>
	<datestamp>1259856480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And what about the ice and freezing rain genius?</htmltext>
<tokenext>And what about the ice and freezing rain genius ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And what about the ice and freezing rain genius?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593482</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30603058</id>
	<title>Re:If ND doesn't have this problem...</title>
	<author>mrdtr</author>
	<datestamp>1259864400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, same situation up here in Winnipeg. I haven't heard or seen any problems with snow covering our traffic signals. We first started using LED's as far back as 2004.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , same situation up here in Winnipeg .
I have n't heard or seen any problems with snow covering our traffic signals .
We first started using LED 's as far back as 2004 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, same situation up here in Winnipeg.
I haven't heard or seen any problems with snow covering our traffic signals.
We first started using LED's as far back as 2004.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594336</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597680</id>
	<title>Dual bulb</title>
	<author>zogger</author>
	<datestamp>1259870160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some enterprising company could come out with the dual bulb traffic light, or even just replacement dual bulb modules. Most of the time it runs LED, whenever the weather gets icy snowy inclement it gets a signal from the traffic control overlords and switches to normal hot incandescent. I've seen flashlights like this already, so it can be done.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some enterprising company could come out with the dual bulb traffic light , or even just replacement dual bulb modules .
Most of the time it runs LED , whenever the weather gets icy snowy inclement it gets a signal from the traffic control overlords and switches to normal hot incandescent .
I 've seen flashlights like this already , so it can be done .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some enterprising company could come out with the dual bulb traffic light, or even just replacement dual bulb modules.
Most of the time it runs LED, whenever the weather gets icy snowy inclement it gets a signal from the traffic control overlords and switches to normal hot incandescent.
I've seen flashlights like this already, so it can be done.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596168</id>
	<title>Don't incandescent bulbs melt snow?</title>
	<author>admiralex</author>
	<datestamp>1259864520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some reason why cold climates where this is a problem can't switch back?  All these other solutions burn more energy and produce more pollution than sticking a regular bulb back in the stoplights, and voila, problem solved.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some reason why cold climates where this is a problem ca n't switch back ?
All these other solutions burn more energy and produce more pollution than sticking a regular bulb back in the stoplights , and voila , problem solved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some reason why cold climates where this is a problem can't switch back?
All these other solutions burn more energy and produce more pollution than sticking a regular bulb back in the stoplights, and voila, problem solved.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30598082</id>
	<title>Why not add a heating solution?</title>
	<author>cheros</author>
	<datestamp>1259871600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You switch to LEDs to save energy, changing back strikes me as failing to address the root cause, temperature.</p><p>Where I live we have a couple of awkward corners so they mounted mirrors to allow people to see oncoming traffic.  As we get snow, those mirrors have a built-in heating element that only switches on when it's cold - precisely the right idea.</p><p>If I recall correctly, there's also a self-regulating tape which is used to be embedded with water pipes to prevent them from freezing, so it's not like there aren't any solutions.</p><p>Just going back to wasting energy ALL THE TIME is mad IMHO.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You switch to LEDs to save energy , changing back strikes me as failing to address the root cause , temperature.Where I live we have a couple of awkward corners so they mounted mirrors to allow people to see oncoming traffic .
As we get snow , those mirrors have a built-in heating element that only switches on when it 's cold - precisely the right idea.If I recall correctly , there 's also a self-regulating tape which is used to be embedded with water pipes to prevent them from freezing , so it 's not like there are n't any solutions.Just going back to wasting energy ALL THE TIME is mad IMHO .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You switch to LEDs to save energy, changing back strikes me as failing to address the root cause, temperature.Where I live we have a couple of awkward corners so they mounted mirrors to allow people to see oncoming traffic.
As we get snow, those mirrors have a built-in heating element that only switches on when it's cold - precisely the right idea.If I recall correctly, there's also a self-regulating tape which is used to be embedded with water pipes to prevent them from freezing, so it's not like there aren't any solutions.Just going back to wasting energy ALL THE TIME is mad IMHO.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30599228</id>
	<title>Re:whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>DerekLyons</author>
	<datestamp>1259833200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>idiot driver should be prosecuted since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal.</p></div></blockquote><p>Unless it's a left turn lane, in which the third from the top is a left turn signal.  Or, if it's a '<a href="http://www.kbrhorse.net/signals/lfe\_doghouse.html" title="kbrhorse.net">doghouse</a> [kbrhorse.net]' type signal you have a choice of not one but <i>two</i> lights that are "third from the top".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>idiot driver should be prosecuted since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal.Unless it 's a left turn lane , in which the third from the top is a left turn signal .
Or , if it 's a 'doghouse [ kbrhorse.net ] ' type signal you have a choice of not one but two lights that are " third from the top " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>idiot driver should be prosecuted since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal.Unless it's a left turn lane, in which the third from the top is a left turn signal.
Or, if it's a 'doghouse [kbrhorse.net]' type signal you have a choice of not one but two lights that are "third from the top".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595456</id>
	<title>Re:The real world defeats the lab</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259862360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I see a lot of people trying to make some political point / fear mongering about 'going green' -- the reality is this is a simple case of people failing to do their QA.  These should have been tested in year round conditions for the extremes of the areas where they are installed.</p><p>It doesn't matter whether your technology is green or not, if it isn't properly tested, these things are going to happen. That this was a 'green' technology is completely orthogonal to the situation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I see a lot of people trying to make some political point / fear mongering about 'going green ' -- the reality is this is a simple case of people failing to do their QA .
These should have been tested in year round conditions for the extremes of the areas where they are installed.It does n't matter whether your technology is green or not , if it is n't properly tested , these things are going to happen .
That this was a 'green ' technology is completely orthogonal to the situation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see a lot of people trying to make some political point / fear mongering about 'going green' -- the reality is this is a simple case of people failing to do their QA.
These should have been tested in year round conditions for the extremes of the areas where they are installed.It doesn't matter whether your technology is green or not, if it isn't properly tested, these things are going to happen.
That this was a 'green' technology is completely orthogonal to the situation.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593838</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596920</id>
	<title>Re:Isn't this about design?</title>
	<author>omnichad</author>
	<datestamp>1259867160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For that matter, not being able to see the perpendicular side's lights affects driving too.  If you're making a right turn on red (legal in a lot of places), you want to know if the other traffic has a green or red light.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For that matter , not being able to see the perpendicular side 's lights affects driving too .
If you 're making a right turn on red ( legal in a lot of places ) , you want to know if the other traffic has a green or red light .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For that matter, not being able to see the perpendicular side's lights affects driving too.
If you're making a right turn on red (legal in a lot of places), you want to know if the other traffic has a green or red light.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594190</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595956</id>
	<title>One simpler solution...</title>
	<author>allcaps</author>
	<datestamp>1259863920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Just do what normal traffic lights do to keep birds out, cut out the bottom part.

No more snow, and it will cost less to make.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...or am I totally off here?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just do what normal traffic lights do to keep birds out , cut out the bottom part .
No more snow , and it will cost less to make .
...or am I totally off here ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just do what normal traffic lights do to keep birds out, cut out the bottom part.
No more snow, and it will cost less to make.
...or am I totally off here?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593948</id>
	<title>Re:Distinguish top from bottom</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259857680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I live in Texas.  We hang our lights sideways.</p><p>No worries about snow down here of course...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I live in Texas .
We hang our lights sideways.No worries about snow down here of course... : - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I live in Texas.
We hang our lights sideways.No worries about snow down here of course... :-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30598854</id>
	<title>Re:Simple</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1259831580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Add another sensor that detects precipitation (or make the heater controlled by a central facility) and save even more money.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Add another sensor that detects precipitation ( or make the heater controlled by a central facility ) and save even more money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Add another sensor that detects precipitation (or make the heater controlled by a central facility) and save even more money.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593510</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594336</id>
	<title>If ND doesn't have this problem...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259858940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I live in North Dakota, we've had these LED traffic lights for years, and I cannot remember the last time I  saw one totally snowed up. The shields that curve over the top of the traffic lights here do an adequate job of keeping the snow from coating the signals - including during the 3-day blizzard we had last week (I had to drive in it each of those 3 days, so trust me - they worked).</p><p>If they're not working in other states, than either their storms are somehow worse than ND's, or they've cheaped out on the snow shields that go over the top of the lights. I know which one I'd put my money on...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I live in North Dakota , we 've had these LED traffic lights for years , and I can not remember the last time I saw one totally snowed up .
The shields that curve over the top of the traffic lights here do an adequate job of keeping the snow from coating the signals - including during the 3-day blizzard we had last week ( I had to drive in it each of those 3 days , so trust me - they worked ) .If they 're not working in other states , than either their storms are somehow worse than ND 's , or they 've cheaped out on the snow shields that go over the top of the lights .
I know which one I 'd put my money on.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I live in North Dakota, we've had these LED traffic lights for years, and I cannot remember the last time I  saw one totally snowed up.
The shields that curve over the top of the traffic lights here do an adequate job of keeping the snow from coating the signals - including during the 3-day blizzard we had last week (I had to drive in it each of those 3 days, so trust me - they worked).If they're not working in other states, than either their storms are somehow worse than ND's, or they've cheaped out on the snow shields that go over the top of the lights.
I know which one I'd put my money on...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594088</id>
	<title>Flame thrower equipped truck</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259858100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>The cities need a Flame thrower equipped truck to drive around and blast the snow covered lights.  The city could charge a small fee to people who want to work the flame thrower.  Oh the extra fun that a snow day could bring if we only had a Flame thrower equipped truck.<p>
Other than that I would say when you are unsure about the light YOU treat it as a 4 way stop and do not assume the other drivers are any good.  Worst case is blast those bad drivers with the Flame thrower equipped truck!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The cities need a Flame thrower equipped truck to drive around and blast the snow covered lights .
The city could charge a small fee to people who want to work the flame thrower .
Oh the extra fun that a snow day could bring if we only had a Flame thrower equipped truck .
Other than that I would say when you are unsure about the light YOU treat it as a 4 way stop and do not assume the other drivers are any good .
Worst case is blast those bad drivers with the Flame thrower equipped truck !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The cities need a Flame thrower equipped truck to drive around and blast the snow covered lights.
The city could charge a small fee to people who want to work the flame thrower.
Oh the extra fun that a snow day could bring if we only had a Flame thrower equipped truck.
Other than that I would say when you are unsure about the light YOU treat it as a 4 way stop and do not assume the other drivers are any good.
Worst case is blast those bad drivers with the Flame thrower equipped truck!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30600120</id>
	<title>Similar issue in aviation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259838240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>LED lights have also been replacing incandescent at airports. Unfortunately, these lights do not emit heat energy to be picked up by FLIR cameras that you find on high end business jets.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>LED lights have also been replacing incandescent at airports .
Unfortunately , these lights do not emit heat energy to be picked up by FLIR cameras that you find on high end business jets .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>LED lights have also been replacing incandescent at airports.
Unfortunately, these lights do not emit heat energy to be picked up by FLIR cameras that you find on high end business jets.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594164</id>
	<title>Re:Propaganda?</title>
	<author>TheVelvetFlamebait</author>
	<datestamp>1259858400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I read that into it as well, but I think that it's not so much the article or summary, rather just a sensitivity to the vast quantities of anti-green propaganda already out there.</p><blockquote><div><p>The unintended consequences of the green technology were also identified as a 'contributing factor' in the death of an Illinois woman</p></div></blockquote><p>This was the sentence in particular that raised red flags, but I can't think of a rational in context reason for why. The fact is that green technology has unintended consequences, and this is probably the most tactful way of putting it. The summary writer could have quite easily replaced "unintended" with "negative", without losing much NPOV.</p><p>I think it's important not to dismiss these articles as propaganda, even when they are slightly biased.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I read that into it as well , but I think that it 's not so much the article or summary , rather just a sensitivity to the vast quantities of anti-green propaganda already out there.The unintended consequences of the green technology were also identified as a 'contributing factor ' in the death of an Illinois womanThis was the sentence in particular that raised red flags , but I ca n't think of a rational in context reason for why .
The fact is that green technology has unintended consequences , and this is probably the most tactful way of putting it .
The summary writer could have quite easily replaced " unintended " with " negative " , without losing much NPOV.I think it 's important not to dismiss these articles as propaganda , even when they are slightly biased .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I read that into it as well, but I think that it's not so much the article or summary, rather just a sensitivity to the vast quantities of anti-green propaganda already out there.The unintended consequences of the green technology were also identified as a 'contributing factor' in the death of an Illinois womanThis was the sentence in particular that raised red flags, but I can't think of a rational in context reason for why.
The fact is that green technology has unintended consequences, and this is probably the most tactful way of putting it.
The summary writer could have quite easily replaced "unintended" with "negative", without losing much NPOV.I think it's important not to dismiss these articles as propaganda, even when they are slightly biased.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593626</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597806</id>
	<title>Re:whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259870640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We don't have LED lights in my town.  However, we also don't have any 4 stacks.  All the left turn signal lights are dual purpose and either display an arrow or a round light, depending on if oncoming traffic is forced to stop, or if you are supposed to yield for the turn.  Snow could make that confusing.  <br>
&nbsp; <br>That being said, at the end of the day, the responsibility of the driver is to safely navigate their car.  The lights are there to help, but they aren't an absolute defense.  You as a driver should still make a final judgment and make sure the path you are taking it clear of other vehicles.  Frankly, it's just not that hard and it's pathetic how many people are apparently incapable of doing so.<br>
&nbsp; <br>Bonus, the lights we do have put off RF noise, so I can tell what color the light in front of me is by the amount of interference my radio gets.  I can also tell by the pattern of interference who has a red and who else has a green.  Not that I would trust that to be 100\% accurate, it so far has been.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We do n't have LED lights in my town .
However , we also do n't have any 4 stacks .
All the left turn signal lights are dual purpose and either display an arrow or a round light , depending on if oncoming traffic is forced to stop , or if you are supposed to yield for the turn .
Snow could make that confusing .
  That being said , at the end of the day , the responsibility of the driver is to safely navigate their car .
The lights are there to help , but they are n't an absolute defense .
You as a driver should still make a final judgment and make sure the path you are taking it clear of other vehicles .
Frankly , it 's just not that hard and it 's pathetic how many people are apparently incapable of doing so .
  Bonus , the lights we do have put off RF noise , so I can tell what color the light in front of me is by the amount of interference my radio gets .
I can also tell by the pattern of interference who has a red and who else has a green .
Not that I would trust that to be 100 \ % accurate , it so far has been .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We don't have LED lights in my town.
However, we also don't have any 4 stacks.
All the left turn signal lights are dual purpose and either display an arrow or a round light, depending on if oncoming traffic is forced to stop, or if you are supposed to yield for the turn.
Snow could make that confusing.
  That being said, at the end of the day, the responsibility of the driver is to safely navigate their car.
The lights are there to help, but they aren't an absolute defense.
You as a driver should still make a final judgment and make sure the path you are taking it clear of other vehicles.
Frankly, it's just not that hard and it's pathetic how many people are apparently incapable of doing so.
  Bonus, the lights we do have put off RF noise, so I can tell what color the light in front of me is by the amount of interference my radio gets.
I can also tell by the pattern of interference who has a red and who else has a green.
Not that I would trust that to be 100\% accurate, it so far has been.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594318</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594576</id>
	<title>Re:Simple</title>
	<author>zippthorne</author>
	<datestamp>1259859660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, against a whole year of savings, they can't accept five or six days of artificial heating?  It has to be all or nothing?</p><p>What are the addresses of these math deficient city managers, so that local engineers can visit them and slap them in the face with an intro thermodynamics book.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , against a whole year of savings , they ca n't accept five or six days of artificial heating ?
It has to be all or nothing ? What are the addresses of these math deficient city managers , so that local engineers can visit them and slap them in the face with an intro thermodynamics book .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, against a whole year of savings, they can't accept five or six days of artificial heating?
It has to be all or nothing?What are the addresses of these math deficient city managers, so that local engineers can visit them and slap them in the face with an intro thermodynamics book.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593614</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595082</id>
	<title>Engineering FAIL.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259861280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>ANy engineer planning for outdoor products in the midwest that didn't consider weather extremes needs a kick in the junk.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>ANy engineer planning for outdoor products in the midwest that did n't consider weather extremes needs a kick in the junk .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ANy engineer planning for outdoor products in the midwest that didn't consider weather extremes needs a kick in the junk.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593772</id>
	<title>I don't get the colorblind comment...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259857080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>We were discussing these recently at the office &mdash; several folks in the building are red/green color blind and different street lights are differently distinguishable.</p></div><p>I had trouble parsing that sentence.  Is the statement that the colorblind can tell the difference between LED's and bulbs?  Because the non-colorblind can also.</p><p>Is the statement that the colorblind can tell the difference between the red and green lights?  Because that's why they have a standard.  The red one is always in one of two places.  The green one is always opposite that one.  Really, if they changed the lights to a pure white, they would still work for the non-colorblind.</p><p>So yeah, 'say what?'</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We were discussing these recently at the office    several folks in the building are red/green color blind and different street lights are differently distinguishable.I had trouble parsing that sentence .
Is the statement that the colorblind can tell the difference between LED 's and bulbs ?
Because the non-colorblind can also.Is the statement that the colorblind can tell the difference between the red and green lights ?
Because that 's why they have a standard .
The red one is always in one of two places .
The green one is always opposite that one .
Really , if they changed the lights to a pure white , they would still work for the non-colorblind.So yeah , 'say what ?
'</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We were discussing these recently at the office — several folks in the building are red/green color blind and different street lights are differently distinguishable.I had trouble parsing that sentence.
Is the statement that the colorblind can tell the difference between LED's and bulbs?
Because the non-colorblind can also.Is the statement that the colorblind can tell the difference between the red and green lights?
Because that's why they have a standard.
The red one is always in one of two places.
The green one is always opposite that one.
Really, if they changed the lights to a pure white, they would still work for the non-colorblind.So yeah, 'say what?
'
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597474</id>
	<title>Here's a tip...</title>
	<author>okmijnuhb</author>
	<datestamp>1259869260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If the traffic lights are non functional, proceed carefully through any intersections, being alert for traffic and other dangers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If the traffic lights are non functional , proceed carefully through any intersections , being alert for traffic and other dangers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the traffic lights are non functional, proceed carefully through any intersections, being alert for traffic and other dangers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594106</id>
	<title>Simpler solution:</title>
	<author>MMC Monster</author>
	<datestamp>1259858220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Make the green light (which is supposed to be on the bottom) an incandescent light.  Make the yellow and red LED.  The heat generated from the one light will keep it from attracting ice.  If it's obscured, people can't tell what it's doing, and it becomes an automatic stop/hazard situation.</p><p>Also uses 1/3 the power of an all-incandescent solution.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Make the green light ( which is supposed to be on the bottom ) an incandescent light .
Make the yellow and red LED .
The heat generated from the one light will keep it from attracting ice .
If it 's obscured , people ca n't tell what it 's doing , and it becomes an automatic stop/hazard situation.Also uses 1/3 the power of an all-incandescent solution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Make the green light (which is supposed to be on the bottom) an incandescent light.
Make the yellow and red LED.
The heat generated from the one light will keep it from attracting ice.
If it's obscured, people can't tell what it's doing, and it becomes an automatic stop/hazard situation.Also uses 1/3 the power of an all-incandescent solution.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30599548</id>
	<title>What about a dimmer switch?</title>
	<author>s\_p\_oneil</author>
	<datestamp>1259834760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If the LED's can handle additional current, what about a dimmer switch? If they can crank it up so it temporarily uses as many Watts as a normal bulb, it should generate the same amount of heat. Even if they can't get the power that high, higher brightness levels may be enough to be visible through the snow.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If the LED 's can handle additional current , what about a dimmer switch ?
If they can crank it up so it temporarily uses as many Watts as a normal bulb , it should generate the same amount of heat .
Even if they ca n't get the power that high , higher brightness levels may be enough to be visible through the snow .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the LED's can handle additional current, what about a dimmer switch?
If they can crank it up so it temporarily uses as many Watts as a normal bulb, it should generate the same amount of heat.
Even if they can't get the power that high, higher brightness levels may be enough to be visible through the snow.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596002</id>
	<title>Why is colorblindness mentioned?</title>
	<author>hduff</author>
	<datestamp>1259864040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Red-green colorblindness should not affect the ability of a person to correctly observe a traffic light. The placement of the three lights is standardized as to position as well as color. Why was it mentioned in this context?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Red-green colorblindness should not affect the ability of a person to correctly observe a traffic light .
The placement of the three lights is standardized as to position as well as color .
Why was it mentioned in this context ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Red-green colorblindness should not affect the ability of a person to correctly observe a traffic light.
The placement of the three lights is standardized as to position as well as color.
Why was it mentioned in this context?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593468</id>
	<title>what an elegant phrase</title>
	<author>Hognoxious</author>
	<datestamp>1259856000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> different street lights are differently distinguishable.</p></div> </blockquote><p>If they didn't look different, you wouldn't be able to distinguish them.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>different street lights are differently distinguishable .
If they did n't look different , you would n't be able to distinguish them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> different street lights are differently distinguishable.
If they didn't look different, you wouldn't be able to distinguish them.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594198</id>
	<title>Re:New design needed?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259858520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A reasonable suggestion but unfortunately the snow that "sticks" to the lights now would also complete cover individual LEDs.  Being from MN, I have seen this happen even with the older heat-generating lights.  The difference is the old lights will melt themselves off once the weather improves slightly.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A reasonable suggestion but unfortunately the snow that " sticks " to the lights now would also complete cover individual LEDs .
Being from MN , I have seen this happen even with the older heat-generating lights .
The difference is the old lights will melt themselves off once the weather improves slightly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A reasonable suggestion but unfortunately the snow that "sticks" to the lights now would also complete cover individual LEDs.
Being from MN, I have seen this happen even with the older heat-generating lights.
The difference is the old lights will melt themselves off once the weather improves slightly.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593804</id>
	<title>human condition</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259857200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>people shouldn't be trusted with automobiles anyway</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>people should n't be trusted with automobiles anyway</tokentext>
<sentencetext>people shouldn't be trusted with automobiles anyway</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30609710</id>
	<title>Re:New design needed?</title>
	<author>bill\_mcgonigle</author>
	<datestamp>1262253540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> <i>Maybe the lights need to take on a new form? What kind of problems would arise from coating each LED's sides with black paint (to replicate the duty of the indirect sun shades) and spacing the LEDs out so snow can pass through them? Or possibly shaping the LED or a cover as a cone shape so that it's harder to cover with snow?</i></p></div> </blockquote><p>You can vapor deposit some metal onto the lens and then run a very small electric current through the surface of the lens and ice won't stick to it.  Cheaper than heating with incandescent and the hookups are already there.</p><p>Hi, USPOTO, this post was made in 2009.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe the lights need to take on a new form ?
What kind of problems would arise from coating each LED 's sides with black paint ( to replicate the duty of the indirect sun shades ) and spacing the LEDs out so snow can pass through them ?
Or possibly shaping the LED or a cover as a cone shape so that it 's harder to cover with snow ?
You can vapor deposit some metal onto the lens and then run a very small electric current through the surface of the lens and ice wo n't stick to it .
Cheaper than heating with incandescent and the hookups are already there.Hi , USPOTO , this post was made in 2009 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Maybe the lights need to take on a new form?
What kind of problems would arise from coating each LED's sides with black paint (to replicate the duty of the indirect sun shades) and spacing the LEDs out so snow can pass through them?
Or possibly shaping the LED or a cover as a cone shape so that it's harder to cover with snow?
You can vapor deposit some metal onto the lens and then run a very small electric current through the surface of the lens and ice won't stick to it.
Cheaper than heating with incandescent and the hookups are already there.Hi, USPOTO, this post was made in 2009.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595192</id>
	<title>Re:Good Advice</title>
	<author>Locutus</author>
	<datestamp>1259861640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>But there was a big sale at the store and green means I get there faster.   It was dumb for that person to assume the light was what they wanted it to be without regarding oncoming traffic. There are way too many morons out there and way too many thinking they are the only ones on the road.  We really need auto pilots in these cars and fast.<br><br>LoB</htmltext>
<tokenext>But there was a big sale at the store and green means I get there faster .
It was dumb for that person to assume the light was what they wanted it to be without regarding oncoming traffic .
There are way too many morons out there and way too many thinking they are the only ones on the road .
We really need auto pilots in these cars and fast.LoB</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But there was a big sale at the store and green means I get there faster.
It was dumb for that person to assume the light was what they wanted it to be without regarding oncoming traffic.
There are way too many morons out there and way too many thinking they are the only ones on the road.
We really need auto pilots in these cars and fast.LoB</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593470</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595386</id>
	<title>Umm, no.</title>
	<author>sean.peters</author>
	<datestamp>1259862180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The real money savings comes from the fact that you don't have to replace LED bulbs anywhere near as often as incandescents... and you'd still be saving that money, even if you installed a tiny, cheap heater in each fixture.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The real money savings comes from the fact that you do n't have to replace LED bulbs anywhere near as often as incandescents... and you 'd still be saving that money , even if you installed a tiny , cheap heater in each fixture .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The real money savings comes from the fact that you don't have to replace LED bulbs anywhere near as often as incandescents... and you'd still be saving that money, even if you installed a tiny, cheap heater in each fixture.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593716</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30598054</id>
	<title>Re:whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1259871540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>idiot driver should be prosecuted since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal.</i></p><p>My dad is color-deficient and can't tell red from green, so to him when the top light is lit you stop. He got a ticket in Arizona decades ago for running a red light -- the traffic signal had been installed upside down.</p><p>Drivers aren't the only idiots, and you can't assume that an idiot didn't install the traffic signal.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>idiot driver should be prosecuted since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal.My dad is color-deficient and ca n't tell red from green , so to him when the top light is lit you stop .
He got a ticket in Arizona decades ago for running a red light -- the traffic signal had been installed upside down.Drivers are n't the only idiots , and you ca n't assume that an idiot did n't install the traffic signal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>idiot driver should be prosecuted since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal.My dad is color-deficient and can't tell red from green, so to him when the top light is lit you stop.
He got a ticket in Arizona decades ago for running a red light -- the traffic signal had been installed upside down.Drivers aren't the only idiots, and you can't assume that an idiot didn't install the traffic signal.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30602862</id>
	<title>Standard traffic lights can be obscured too!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259861580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've lived in Chicago my whole life.  Long before LED traffic lights were around, I saw an intersection with completely obscured traffic lights on one side.  They were filled in with snow.  IIRC, it wasn't even snowing at the time, but there was a LOT of snow on the ground and the wind was very strong.  Visibility was horrible.  The blowing snow covered EVERYTHING, including the incandescent traffic lights.  Even with the heat generated by the lights, the snow was still able to completely fill in all of the signals.  Given that the lights operate on a cycle, I doubt there was enough heat generated at any given light to melt the snow.  Even if there were, there was enough new snow blowing in that it didn't make a difference anyway.</p><p>I remember this clearly because I've seen it ONE time in my life.  With the right conditions, it can and does happen, just not very often.</p><p>Incandescent lamps are absolutely NOT guaranteed to prevent this from occurring.</p><p>Something else I remember from that day... the conditions were awful enough that I was very very careful when driving.  Green light?  Wait 5 seconds or so before proceeding if there is ANY chance whatsoever that a crossing vehicle won't be able to stop.  The accident described in this article is because someone wasn't paying attention, period.  They are just trying to use the stop lights as a scapegoat to avoid responsibility for vehicular manslaughter caused by their carelessness.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've lived in Chicago my whole life .
Long before LED traffic lights were around , I saw an intersection with completely obscured traffic lights on one side .
They were filled in with snow .
IIRC , it was n't even snowing at the time , but there was a LOT of snow on the ground and the wind was very strong .
Visibility was horrible .
The blowing snow covered EVERYTHING , including the incandescent traffic lights .
Even with the heat generated by the lights , the snow was still able to completely fill in all of the signals .
Given that the lights operate on a cycle , I doubt there was enough heat generated at any given light to melt the snow .
Even if there were , there was enough new snow blowing in that it did n't make a difference anyway.I remember this clearly because I 've seen it ONE time in my life .
With the right conditions , it can and does happen , just not very often.Incandescent lamps are absolutely NOT guaranteed to prevent this from occurring.Something else I remember from that day... the conditions were awful enough that I was very very careful when driving .
Green light ?
Wait 5 seconds or so before proceeding if there is ANY chance whatsoever that a crossing vehicle wo n't be able to stop .
The accident described in this article is because someone was n't paying attention , period .
They are just trying to use the stop lights as a scapegoat to avoid responsibility for vehicular manslaughter caused by their carelessness .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've lived in Chicago my whole life.
Long before LED traffic lights were around, I saw an intersection with completely obscured traffic lights on one side.
They were filled in with snow.
IIRC, it wasn't even snowing at the time, but there was a LOT of snow on the ground and the wind was very strong.
Visibility was horrible.
The blowing snow covered EVERYTHING, including the incandescent traffic lights.
Even with the heat generated by the lights, the snow was still able to completely fill in all of the signals.
Given that the lights operate on a cycle, I doubt there was enough heat generated at any given light to melt the snow.
Even if there were, there was enough new snow blowing in that it didn't make a difference anyway.I remember this clearly because I've seen it ONE time in my life.
With the right conditions, it can and does happen, just not very often.Incandescent lamps are absolutely NOT guaranteed to prevent this from occurring.Something else I remember from that day... the conditions were awful enough that I was very very careful when driving.
Green light?
Wait 5 seconds or so before proceeding if there is ANY chance whatsoever that a crossing vehicle won't be able to stop.
The accident described in this article is because someone wasn't paying attention, period.
They are just trying to use the stop lights as a scapegoat to avoid responsibility for vehicular manslaughter caused by their carelessness.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594022</id>
	<title>simple fix</title>
	<author>DragonTHC</author>
	<datestamp>1259857920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>install a low power heating element over the lights to warm them up in the winter.  you still save power because you don't need them in the summer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>install a low power heating element over the lights to warm them up in the winter .
you still save power because you do n't need them in the summer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>install a low power heating element over the lights to warm them up in the winter.
you still save power because you don't need them in the summer.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596490</id>
	<title>What we need is...</title>
	<author>bjk002</author>
	<datestamp>1259865480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A light bulb that will not only produce light, but also give off heat and melt the snow as it attempts to accumulate.  Oh wait...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A light bulb that will not only produce light , but also give off heat and melt the snow as it attempts to accumulate .
Oh wait.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A light bulb that will not only produce light, but also give off heat and melt the snow as it attempts to accumulate.
Oh wait...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595294</id>
	<title>Cmdr Taco is fucking retarded</title>
	<author>Aan Cocks</author>
	<datestamp>1259861940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How would so called "nongreen" traffic lights help colorblind people versus "green" traffic lights which use exactly the same color scheme? Open mouth and insert cock you stupid son of a bitch.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How would so called " nongreen " traffic lights help colorblind people versus " green " traffic lights which use exactly the same color scheme ?
Open mouth and insert cock you stupid son of a bitch .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How would so called "nongreen" traffic lights help colorblind people versus "green" traffic lights which use exactly the same color scheme?
Open mouth and insert cock you stupid son of a bitch.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593838</id>
	<title>The real world defeats the lab</title>
	<author>pcause</author>
	<datestamp>1259857260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Amazing, the real world isn't like the lab.  And, surprise, all of the theoretical results expected aren't going to be achieved in the real world.  This is a great example of theory meeting the real world and should make us pause and reduce our expectations for benefits of going green.  Yes, it is a good idea to reduce our energy consumption and carbon footprint.  Bu no, we won't get the results in terms of energy savings, reduced emissions and job creation that the ardent proponents are telling us will be achieved and it will take longer than expected.  Still worth doing, but don't believe the press releases and promises.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Amazing , the real world is n't like the lab .
And , surprise , all of the theoretical results expected are n't going to be achieved in the real world .
This is a great example of theory meeting the real world and should make us pause and reduce our expectations for benefits of going green .
Yes , it is a good idea to reduce our energy consumption and carbon footprint .
Bu no , we wo n't get the results in terms of energy savings , reduced emissions and job creation that the ardent proponents are telling us will be achieved and it will take longer than expected .
Still worth doing , but do n't believe the press releases and promises .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Amazing, the real world isn't like the lab.
And, surprise, all of the theoretical results expected aren't going to be achieved in the real world.
This is a great example of theory meeting the real world and should make us pause and reduce our expectations for benefits of going green.
Yes, it is a good idea to reduce our energy consumption and carbon footprint.
Bu no, we won't get the results in terms of energy savings, reduced emissions and job creation that the ardent proponents are telling us will be achieved and it will take longer than expected.
Still worth doing, but don't believe the press releases and promises.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596602</id>
	<title>Re:The real world defeats the lab</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259865900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>what is amazing is that you draw a conclusion based on your preconceived notions. This is no such example of theory meeting the real world. I contract on switching for a company that makes these lights. They have been installed for testing in norther MN and ND since the late 90s. What is occurring is a rare event, the upper midwest has seen 2 10 year blizzards in the same year.  If we consider snow cover as complete failures, LEDs are still more reliable than the bulbs they replace.  Where is the hysteria with incandescent bulbs which fail at 20x the rate of LEDs?  There isn't any because this is purely sensational nonsense sparked by people with an agenda. People like YOU who want to draw negative conclusions about things that threaten your way of doing things. Get real you clown.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>what is amazing is that you draw a conclusion based on your preconceived notions .
This is no such example of theory meeting the real world .
I contract on switching for a company that makes these lights .
They have been installed for testing in norther MN and ND since the late 90s .
What is occurring is a rare event , the upper midwest has seen 2 10 year blizzards in the same year .
If we consider snow cover as complete failures , LEDs are still more reliable than the bulbs they replace .
Where is the hysteria with incandescent bulbs which fail at 20x the rate of LEDs ?
There is n't any because this is purely sensational nonsense sparked by people with an agenda .
People like YOU who want to draw negative conclusions about things that threaten your way of doing things .
Get real you clown .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>what is amazing is that you draw a conclusion based on your preconceived notions.
This is no such example of theory meeting the real world.
I contract on switching for a company that makes these lights.
They have been installed for testing in norther MN and ND since the late 90s.
What is occurring is a rare event, the upper midwest has seen 2 10 year blizzards in the same year.
If we consider snow cover as complete failures, LEDs are still more reliable than the bulbs they replace.
Where is the hysteria with incandescent bulbs which fail at 20x the rate of LEDs?
There isn't any because this is purely sensational nonsense sparked by people with an agenda.
People like YOU who want to draw negative conclusions about things that threaten your way of doing things.
Get real you clown.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593838</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30603264</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm...</title>
	<author>Prof.PatPending</author>
	<datestamp>1259867460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>LED light actually generate plenty of heat already.  The problem is that to make them an easy replacement unit for the old incandescent bulbs, the heat-sinks were put on the back of the unit.  Moving the cooling fins around to the front would have made them very efficient snow-melters, maybe even better than the old bulbs.  As I recall from previous discussions about these, over in Europe they don't have a problem with snow build-up in new LED equipped lights, because they were designed to make use of their heat.</htmltext>
<tokenext>LED light actually generate plenty of heat already .
The problem is that to make them an easy replacement unit for the old incandescent bulbs , the heat-sinks were put on the back of the unit .
Moving the cooling fins around to the front would have made them very efficient snow-melters , maybe even better than the old bulbs .
As I recall from previous discussions about these , over in Europe they do n't have a problem with snow build-up in new LED equipped lights , because they were designed to make use of their heat .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>LED light actually generate plenty of heat already.
The problem is that to make them an easy replacement unit for the old incandescent bulbs, the heat-sinks were put on the back of the unit.
Moving the cooling fins around to the front would have made them very efficient snow-melters, maybe even better than the old bulbs.
As I recall from previous discussions about these, over in Europe they don't have a problem with snow build-up in new LED equipped lights, because they were designed to make use of their heat.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593704</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594360</id>
	<title>Re:Only apply heat when there's snow on the light?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259859060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The only real downside is massively increasing the complexity of what is currently a very simple device.</i> </p><p>It's not going to make a difference in the complexity - traffic lights are usually run off a PLC that already can handle the additional logic quite easily.  Lots of installations are even using vision systems to determine whether traffic is present instead of the old inductive loops that were common in the past.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The only real downside is massively increasing the complexity of what is currently a very simple device .
It 's not going to make a difference in the complexity - traffic lights are usually run off a PLC that already can handle the additional logic quite easily .
Lots of installations are even using vision systems to determine whether traffic is present instead of the old inductive loops that were common in the past .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only real downside is massively increasing the complexity of what is currently a very simple device.
It's not going to make a difference in the complexity - traffic lights are usually run off a PLC that already can handle the additional logic quite easily.
Lots of installations are even using vision systems to determine whether traffic is present instead of the old inductive loops that were common in the past.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593708</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596298</id>
	<title>Re:Sadly, another easily preventable tragedy...</title>
	<author>hduff</author>
	<datestamp>1259864940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> On the other hand, perhaps it is time to ditch the RED/YELLOW/GREEN system altogether, and come up with something more effective.  </p></div><p>I've always advocated a cop in a tower with a sniper rifle who would shoot people who run red lights. It's one of the few instances where the death penalty would truly act as a deterrent. I, myself, would probably never again drive a car just to avoid the possibility of getting shot. Look at how green that would be! Think of the whales we could save . . .</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>On the other hand , perhaps it is time to ditch the RED/YELLOW/GREEN system altogether , and come up with something more effective .
I 've always advocated a cop in a tower with a sniper rifle who would shoot people who run red lights .
It 's one of the few instances where the death penalty would truly act as a deterrent .
I , myself , would probably never again drive a car just to avoid the possibility of getting shot .
Look at how green that would be !
Think of the whales we could save .
. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> On the other hand, perhaps it is time to ditch the RED/YELLOW/GREEN system altogether, and come up with something more effective.
I've always advocated a cop in a tower with a sniper rifle who would shoot people who run red lights.
It's one of the few instances where the death penalty would truly act as a deterrent.
I, myself, would probably never again drive a car just to avoid the possibility of getting shot.
Look at how green that would be!
Think of the whales we could save .
. .
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594812</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594318</id>
	<title>Re:whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>SeaFox</author>
	<datestamp>1259858940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> <i>idiot driver should be prosecuted since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal.</i></p></div> </blockquote><p>Are LED fixtures made to follow these same rules? On an LED light, the same light can easily be used to display both by simply not turning on all the LEDs.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>idiot driver should be prosecuted since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal .
Are LED fixtures made to follow these same rules ?
On an LED light , the same light can easily be used to display both by simply not turning on all the LEDs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> idiot driver should be prosecuted since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal.
Are LED fixtures made to follow these same rules?
On an LED light, the same light can easily be used to display both by simply not turning on all the LEDs.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593668</id>
	<title>Tell that to</title>
	<author>Fnord666</author>
	<datestamp>1259856720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>They say the problem is easily remedied by maintenance crews using brooms and occurs so infrequently -- once or twice a winter -- that it does not outweigh the benefits of energy efficiency.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
Tell that to the surviving members of Lisa Richter's family.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>They say the problem is easily remedied by maintenance crews using brooms and occurs so infrequently -- once or twice a winter -- that it does not outweigh the benefits of energy efficiency .
Tell that to the surviving members of Lisa Richter 's family .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They say the problem is easily remedied by maintenance crews using brooms and occurs so infrequently -- once or twice a winter -- that it does not outweigh the benefits of energy efficiency.
Tell that to the surviving members of Lisa Richter's family.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594388</id>
	<title>People were idiots for not thinking of this</title>
	<author>Hazelfield</author>
	<datestamp>1259859120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Some problems are hard to anticipate when implementing a new solution - this wasn't one of them. If you live in a snowy climate and want your traffic lights to work even during snow, you MUST take precautions. <br> <br>

It doesn't sound like a terribly difficult problem either. You could use heating, some kind of automatic wiper, spraying with ethylene glycol, or just wiping them off manually every now and then.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Some problems are hard to anticipate when implementing a new solution - this was n't one of them .
If you live in a snowy climate and want your traffic lights to work even during snow , you MUST take precautions .
It does n't sound like a terribly difficult problem either .
You could use heating , some kind of automatic wiper , spraying with ethylene glycol , or just wiping them off manually every now and then .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some problems are hard to anticipate when implementing a new solution - this wasn't one of them.
If you live in a snowy climate and want your traffic lights to work even during snow, you MUST take precautions.
It doesn't sound like a terribly difficult problem either.
You could use heating, some kind of automatic wiper, spraying with ethylene glycol, or just wiping them off manually every now and then.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594270</id>
	<title>Re:Good Advice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259858760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Although I totally agree that the answer is indeed "stop", there is also a problem with other motorists on your own side of the road. They will often rear end you (sometimes quite hard) when you stop in a situation like this. Even worse is in heavy fog where it is only safe to drive say 30 MPH in a 65 MPH max zone. Many times some clueless moron rear ends you. So the driver not only needs to check the status of the light, he needs to determine if there are cars behind him, how fast they are going and then figure out if there are cars coming into the intersection from the other direction. Regardless of the law (which is to stop), you need to watch out for your safety and the safety of your passengers - which sometimes (rarely, but it does happen) will force you to go right on through to avoid being hit.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Although I totally agree that the answer is indeed " stop " , there is also a problem with other motorists on your own side of the road .
They will often rear end you ( sometimes quite hard ) when you stop in a situation like this .
Even worse is in heavy fog where it is only safe to drive say 30 MPH in a 65 MPH max zone .
Many times some clueless moron rear ends you .
So the driver not only needs to check the status of the light , he needs to determine if there are cars behind him , how fast they are going and then figure out if there are cars coming into the intersection from the other direction .
Regardless of the law ( which is to stop ) , you need to watch out for your safety and the safety of your passengers - which sometimes ( rarely , but it does happen ) will force you to go right on through to avoid being hit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Although I totally agree that the answer is indeed "stop", there is also a problem with other motorists on your own side of the road.
They will often rear end you (sometimes quite hard) when you stop in a situation like this.
Even worse is in heavy fog where it is only safe to drive say 30 MPH in a 65 MPH max zone.
Many times some clueless moron rear ends you.
So the driver not only needs to check the status of the light, he needs to determine if there are cars behind him, how fast they are going and then figure out if there are cars coming into the intersection from the other direction.
Regardless of the law (which is to stop), you need to watch out for your safety and the safety of your passengers - which sometimes (rarely, but it does happen) will force you to go right on through to avoid being hit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593470</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596200</id>
	<title>Re:Propaganda?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259864580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Fear change!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...! Equals death!  Keep same!  Same is warm!  Same is reliable!  Same is safe!  You don't have to think about same!</p></div><p>That sounds like the mantra of climate change alarmists, who are convinced that any environmental change must be negative.  That's regardless of whether it's global cooling from the 70s or global warming from today.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Fear change !
... ! Equals death !
Keep same !
Same is warm !
Same is reliable !
Same is safe !
You do n't have to think about same ! That sounds like the mantra of climate change alarmists , who are convinced that any environmental change must be negative .
That 's regardless of whether it 's global cooling from the 70s or global warming from today .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fear change!
...! Equals death!
Keep same!
Same is warm!
Same is reliable!
Same is safe!
You don't have to think about same!That sounds like the mantra of climate change alarmists, who are convinced that any environmental change must be negative.
That's regardless of whether it's global cooling from the 70s or global warming from today.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593626</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30600772</id>
	<title>Re:whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>assassinator42</author>
	<datestamp>1259842440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Same here. On some left turn lights, there is a green arrow when you're allowed to turn left, a blinking red where you can turn if there is no oncoming traffic, and a red light when you have to stop. Of course they also have solid green lights that you need to treat as blinking red lights if you're turning left. I still don't like those.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Same here .
On some left turn lights , there is a green arrow when you 're allowed to turn left , a blinking red where you can turn if there is no oncoming traffic , and a red light when you have to stop .
Of course they also have solid green lights that you need to treat as blinking red lights if you 're turning left .
I still do n't like those .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Same here.
On some left turn lights, there is a green arrow when you're allowed to turn left, a blinking red where you can turn if there is no oncoming traffic, and a red light when you have to stop.
Of course they also have solid green lights that you need to treat as blinking red lights if you're turning left.
I still don't like those.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593866</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30599276</id>
	<title>Re:New design needed?</title>
	<author>frogzilla</author>
	<datestamp>1259833440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One problem is that the lights often need to be embedded in shades or shields to prevent glare from the sun from obscuring the light and to prevent drivers approaching from other directions (perhaps less than 90 degrees) from being confused.  These shades provide a wonderful place for snow to accumulate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One problem is that the lights often need to be embedded in shades or shields to prevent glare from the sun from obscuring the light and to prevent drivers approaching from other directions ( perhaps less than 90 degrees ) from being confused .
These shades provide a wonderful place for snow to accumulate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One problem is that the lights often need to be embedded in shades or shields to prevent glare from the sun from obscuring the light and to prevent drivers approaching from other directions (perhaps less than 90 degrees) from being confused.
These shades provide a wonderful place for snow to accumulate.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593678</id>
	<title>There IS a new Stop Light lens cover design</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259856780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I saw a TV new report on this issue yesterday and the new design shielding the light had a gap to create a flow to help prevent build-up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I saw a TV new report on this issue yesterday and the new design shielding the light had a gap to create a flow to help prevent build-up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I saw a TV new report on this issue yesterday and the new design shielding the light had a gap to create a flow to help prevent build-up.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595064</id>
	<title>Re:So here's an idea</title>
	<author>luther349</author>
	<datestamp>1259861220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>the savings using led is massive. heat wasn't the problem it is the amounts of power they use. your looking at least 100$ if savings per month per intersection and will you know the massive amount of lights in a city. also led does not burn out for a very long time. most lights in snowy areas have simply snow shields on them and that works fine no fancy heating. iv never seen a light get snow covered.</htmltext>
<tokenext>the savings using led is massive .
heat was n't the problem it is the amounts of power they use .
your looking at least 100 $ if savings per month per intersection and will you know the massive amount of lights in a city .
also led does not burn out for a very long time .
most lights in snowy areas have simply snow shields on them and that works fine no fancy heating .
iv never seen a light get snow covered .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the savings using led is massive.
heat wasn't the problem it is the amounts of power they use.
your looking at least 100$ if savings per month per intersection and will you know the massive amount of lights in a city.
also led does not burn out for a very long time.
most lights in snowy areas have simply snow shields on them and that works fine no fancy heating.
iv never seen a light get snow covered.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594052</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30599668</id>
	<title>slight redesign</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259835420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>LEDs themselves don't generate much heat, but the power conversion and driving circuitry do.  It doesn't seem to me that it would be that difficult to route this heat to a heat sink on or around the LEDs and/or lens.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>LEDs themselves do n't generate much heat , but the power conversion and driving circuitry do .
It does n't seem to me that it would be that difficult to route this heat to a heat sink on or around the LEDs and/or lens .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>LEDs themselves don't generate much heat, but the power conversion and driving circuitry do.
It doesn't seem to me that it would be that difficult to route this heat to a heat sink on or around the LEDs and/or lens.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597160</id>
	<title>Re:Good Advice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259868000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Right, stop then go *when it is safe to do so*.  I can't see the light.  I stop.  Is that SUV coming the other way going to stop?  Am I sure?  Stay stopped.  OK, he's stopping.  I go.</p><p>How hard is that?  This is all about being in a hurry and getting careless.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Right , stop then go * when it is safe to do so * .
I ca n't see the light .
I stop .
Is that SUV coming the other way going to stop ?
Am I sure ?
Stay stopped .
OK , he 's stopping .
I go.How hard is that ?
This is all about being in a hurry and getting careless .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Right, stop then go *when it is safe to do so*.
I can't see the light.
I stop.
Is that SUV coming the other way going to stop?
Am I sure?
Stay stopped.
OK, he's stopping.
I go.How hard is that?
This is all about being in a hurry and getting careless.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594722</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30598664</id>
	<title>Works over here</title>
	<author>BlueParrot</author>
	<datestamp>1259873760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If the LEDs work just fine without causing trouble in Norway and Sweden they should do well enough in the midwest. It's not the LED's fault some idiot government body fucked up their implementation.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If the LEDs work just fine without causing trouble in Norway and Sweden they should do well enough in the midwest .
It 's not the LED 's fault some idiot government body fucked up their implementation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the LEDs work just fine without causing trouble in Norway and Sweden they should do well enough in the midwest.
It's not the LED's fault some idiot government body fucked up their implementation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593482</id>
	<title>Cover the fronts?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259856000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>If only there was a slick clear material <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass</a> [wikipedia.org] we could put over the front of these round tube things depicted that snow wouldn't be able to adhere to</htmltext>
<tokenext>If only there was a slick clear material http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass [ wikipedia.org ] we could put over the front of these round tube things depicted that snow would n't be able to adhere to</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If only there was a slick clear material http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass [wikipedia.org] we could put over the front of these round tube things depicted that snow wouldn't be able to adhere to</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594394</id>
	<title>Re:The real world defeats the lab</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1259859120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No it doesn't, it makes me paise and thing "there is another driver that shouldn't be allowed to drive" This has NOTHING to do with 'going green'.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No it does n't , it makes me paise and thing " there is another driver that should n't be allowed to drive " This has NOTHING to do with 'going green' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No it doesn't, it makes me paise and thing "there is another driver that shouldn't be allowed to drive" This has NOTHING to do with 'going green'.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593838</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596310</id>
	<title>Re:whatever happened to being careful?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259864940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>idiot driver should be prosecuted since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal. i've seen intersections with broken lights before and people are very careful when they go and make sure the other guy is going to yield.</p></div></blockquote><p>I had an uncle who was color-blind. He could drive just fine because he knew the position of each light. To visit family he occasionally went to another city in a neighboring state about an hour away and was often pulled over by the police for running a red light. Why? Because the lights were in a different order than what he was used to.</p><p>Maybe there's a federally-mandated specification on the position of the stoplights these days, but at the time either there was no specification or the city was not in compliance.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>idiot driver should be prosecuted since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal .
i 've seen intersections with broken lights before and people are very careful when they go and make sure the other guy is going to yield.I had an uncle who was color-blind .
He could drive just fine because he knew the position of each light .
To visit family he occasionally went to another city in a neighboring state about an hour away and was often pulled over by the police for running a red light .
Why ? Because the lights were in a different order than what he was used to.Maybe there 's a federally-mandated specification on the position of the stoplights these days , but at the time either there was no specification or the city was not in compliance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>idiot driver should be prosecuted since everyone knows the third light from the top is regular green and not a turn signal.
i've seen intersections with broken lights before and people are very careful when they go and make sure the other guy is going to yield.I had an uncle who was color-blind.
He could drive just fine because he knew the position of each light.
To visit family he occasionally went to another city in a neighboring state about an hour away and was often pulled over by the police for running a red light.
Why? Because the lights were in a different order than what he was used to.Maybe there's a federally-mandated specification on the position of the stoplights these days, but at the time either there was no specification or the city was not in compliance.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594246</id>
	<title>Not a new problem</title>
	<author>ZenigataKeibu</author>
	<datestamp>1259858700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Cameras have had the same problems years ago and there are plenty of solutions on the market.

Someone just need to do some research, I guess...

Just my 2 cents...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Cameras have had the same problems years ago and there are plenty of solutions on the market .
Someone just need to do some research , I guess.. . Just my 2 cents.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cameras have had the same problems years ago and there are plenty of solutions on the market.
Someone just need to do some research, I guess...

Just my 2 cents...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595442</id>
	<title>Re:Not a problem</title>
	<author>Jason Levine</author>
	<datestamp>1259862360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sounds like they're not configured correctly.  A small tweak and they could remove drivers who disobey the lights.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds like they 're not configured correctly .
A small tweak and they could remove drivers who disobey the lights .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds like they're not configured correctly.
A small tweak and they could remove drivers who disobey the lights.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593812</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593708</id>
	<title>Only apply heat when there's snow on the light?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259856900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why would the heaters have to use much energy?  It sounds like they're not needed very often.  You could automatically trigger them via external light/temperature sensors with some minimal processing or modify the red light camera software to trigger them.  The only real downside is massively increasing the complexity of what is currently a very simple device.</p><p>A simpler answer might be to train people that they actually need to slow down if a traffic signal is not fully visible.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why would the heaters have to use much energy ?
It sounds like they 're not needed very often .
You could automatically trigger them via external light/temperature sensors with some minimal processing or modify the red light camera software to trigger them .
The only real downside is massively increasing the complexity of what is currently a very simple device.A simpler answer might be to train people that they actually need to slow down if a traffic signal is not fully visible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why would the heaters have to use much energy?
It sounds like they're not needed very often.
You could automatically trigger them via external light/temperature sensors with some minimal processing or modify the red light camera software to trigger them.
The only real downside is massively increasing the complexity of what is currently a very simple device.A simpler answer might be to train people that they actually need to slow down if a traffic signal is not fully visible.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30595636</id>
	<title>Re:Good Advice</title>
	<author>omnichad</author>
	<datestamp>1259862900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yep.  Goes with the territory of being an early adopter.  Then again, I don't think I've seen incandescent stop lights in a few years, and by now you'd think this problem would have already come up once or twice.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yep .
Goes with the territory of being an early adopter .
Then again , I do n't think I 've seen incandescent stop lights in a few years , and by now you 'd think this problem would have already come up once or twice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yep.
Goes with the territory of being an early adopter.
Then again, I don't think I've seen incandescent stop lights in a few years, and by now you'd think this problem would have already come up once or twice.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594112</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594050</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm...</title>
	<author>Dipster</author>
	<datestamp>1259857980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The higher elevation of Denver results in a drier snow that is less prone to sticking than in Illinois. We get more "slush" than snow...</htmltext>
<tokenext>The higher elevation of Denver results in a drier snow that is less prone to sticking than in Illinois .
We get more " slush " than snow.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The higher elevation of Denver results in a drier snow that is less prone to sticking than in Illinois.
We get more "slush" than snow...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593704</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594008</id>
	<title>I'm from Wisconsin and that's BS!</title>
	<author>ILuvRamen</author>
	<datestamp>1259857920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm from Wisconsin and we got about a foot of snow twice and I did some driving.  You can still see the signal lights just fine.  Snow is made out of ice which makes it translucent and the colors come through perfectly.  It sounds like, as usual, people are driving with their heads up their asses in the snow and making up some BS excuse about why they went straight through a red light.  Don't believe a word of this.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm from Wisconsin and we got about a foot of snow twice and I did some driving .
You can still see the signal lights just fine .
Snow is made out of ice which makes it translucent and the colors come through perfectly .
It sounds like , as usual , people are driving with their heads up their asses in the snow and making up some BS excuse about why they went straight through a red light .
Do n't believe a word of this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm from Wisconsin and we got about a foot of snow twice and I did some driving.
You can still see the signal lights just fine.
Snow is made out of ice which makes it translucent and the colors come through perfectly.
It sounds like, as usual, people are driving with their heads up their asses in the snow and making up some BS excuse about why they went straight through a red light.
Don't believe a word of this.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593718</id>
	<title>Re:Cover the fronts?</title>
	<author>oldspewey</author>
	<datestamp>1259856900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't know about you, but I've seen snow (and especially ice) stick to glass pretty good. If you lived in the north you'd know from cold, cold experience what it's like to spend half an hour scraping and clearing your car windows.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know about you , but I 've seen snow ( and especially ice ) stick to glass pretty good .
If you lived in the north you 'd know from cold , cold experience what it 's like to spend half an hour scraping and clearing your car windows .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know about you, but I've seen snow (and especially ice) stick to glass pretty good.
If you lived in the north you'd know from cold, cold experience what it's like to spend half an hour scraping and clearing your car windows.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593482</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596868</id>
	<title>Re:Propaganda?</title>
	<author>bonch</author>
	<datestamp>1259866920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So you took reasonable criticism of one aspect of an idealistic movement as propaganda?  I can't help but wonder if you just don't like seeing a certain political viewpoint criticized at all.  Your exaggerated "Fear!" chants come off as a classic strawman attack.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So you took reasonable criticism of one aspect of an idealistic movement as propaganda ?
I ca n't help but wonder if you just do n't like seeing a certain political viewpoint criticized at all .
Your exaggerated " Fear !
" chants come off as a classic strawman attack .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So you took reasonable criticism of one aspect of an idealistic movement as propaganda?
I can't help but wonder if you just don't like seeing a certain political viewpoint criticized at all.
Your exaggerated "Fear!
" chants come off as a classic strawman attack.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593626</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593510</id>
	<title>Simple</title>
	<author>Thelasko</author>
	<datestamp>1259856120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Put a small heater in the traffic signal that turns on below 0C (32F).  Problem solved.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Put a small heater in the traffic signal that turns on below 0C ( 32F ) .
Problem solved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Put a small heater in the traffic signal that turns on below 0C (32F).
Problem solved.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593704</id>
	<title>Hmm...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259856900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wonder if there is some other design factor that is causing this problem, beyond just the LED lights not putting out as much heat as incandescent ones. I live in Colorado and most of the traffic lights here (Denver area) now use LEDs. I don't believe I have ever encountered one that was clogged with snow or ice. Not to say it doesn't happen, but I wonder if the traffic lights here are simply designed differently (better covers/shielding, spacing, ?).
<br> <br>
It seems like a simple solution would be a small heater incorporated into the LED lamp assembly that only turns on below a certain temperature. Better yet- perhaps a sensor could be used to detect if the lamp was covered, perhaps by reflectivity. This would probably still use a lot less electricity over the course of a year.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder if there is some other design factor that is causing this problem , beyond just the LED lights not putting out as much heat as incandescent ones .
I live in Colorado and most of the traffic lights here ( Denver area ) now use LEDs .
I do n't believe I have ever encountered one that was clogged with snow or ice .
Not to say it does n't happen , but I wonder if the traffic lights here are simply designed differently ( better covers/shielding , spacing , ? ) .
It seems like a simple solution would be a small heater incorporated into the LED lamp assembly that only turns on below a certain temperature .
Better yet- perhaps a sensor could be used to detect if the lamp was covered , perhaps by reflectivity .
This would probably still use a lot less electricity over the course of a year .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder if there is some other design factor that is causing this problem, beyond just the LED lights not putting out as much heat as incandescent ones.
I live in Colorado and most of the traffic lights here (Denver area) now use LEDs.
I don't believe I have ever encountered one that was clogged with snow or ice.
Not to say it doesn't happen, but I wonder if the traffic lights here are simply designed differently (better covers/shielding, spacing, ?).
It seems like a simple solution would be a small heater incorporated into the LED lamp assembly that only turns on below a certain temperature.
Better yet- perhaps a sensor could be used to detect if the lamp was covered, perhaps by reflectivity.
This would probably still use a lot less electricity over the course of a year.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594812</id>
	<title>Sadly, another easily preventable tragedy...</title>
	<author>hallux.sinister</author>
	<datestamp>1259860440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>(At grave risk to my karma, as I half-expect this post will earn a 0-troll,) once again we hear of a case where adequate driver training/testing could have saved a life.  If you come to an intersection, and you're not sure what the hell color the traffic signal is... what are you supposed to do?  It's in the driver's manual, by the way.  You STOP.  Treat no indication as to right of way as a yield or stop sign.  <p>  As I'm not one to bitch and offer no solution, here's one... suppose we start by placing conical lenses over these things.  Snow may cover the top, but I doubt it would cover bottom and sides. </p><p> On the other hand, perhaps it is time to ditch the RED/YELLOW/GREEN system altogether, and come up with something more effective.  So many drivers are talking/texting on cellphones while they're driving now, (even in many places where it is illegal to do so,) maybe the system should simply detect from the signals from the phones what their numbers are, and send them a message.</p><p>"... yeah, I'll come to Cindy's birthday pa... wait, I've got a message coming in... OH SHIT OH SHIT OH SHIT - A RED LIGHT!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>( At grave risk to my karma , as I half-expect this post will earn a 0-troll , ) once again we hear of a case where adequate driver training/testing could have saved a life .
If you come to an intersection , and you 're not sure what the hell color the traffic signal is... what are you supposed to do ?
It 's in the driver 's manual , by the way .
You STOP .
Treat no indication as to right of way as a yield or stop sign .
As I 'm not one to bitch and offer no solution , here 's one... suppose we start by placing conical lenses over these things .
Snow may cover the top , but I doubt it would cover bottom and sides .
On the other hand , perhaps it is time to ditch the RED/YELLOW/GREEN system altogether , and come up with something more effective .
So many drivers are talking/texting on cellphones while they 're driving now , ( even in many places where it is illegal to do so , ) maybe the system should simply detect from the signals from the phones what their numbers are , and send them a message. " .. .
yeah , I 'll come to Cindy 's birthday pa... wait , I 've got a message coming in... OH SHIT OH SHIT OH SHIT - A RED LIGHT !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>(At grave risk to my karma, as I half-expect this post will earn a 0-troll,) once again we hear of a case where adequate driver training/testing could have saved a life.
If you come to an intersection, and you're not sure what the hell color the traffic signal is... what are you supposed to do?
It's in the driver's manual, by the way.
You STOP.
Treat no indication as to right of way as a yield or stop sign.
As I'm not one to bitch and offer no solution, here's one... suppose we start by placing conical lenses over these things.
Snow may cover the top, but I doubt it would cover bottom and sides.
On the other hand, perhaps it is time to ditch the RED/YELLOW/GREEN system altogether, and come up with something more effective.
So many drivers are talking/texting on cellphones while they're driving now, (even in many places where it is illegal to do so,) maybe the system should simply detect from the signals from the phones what their numbers are, and send them a message."...
yeah, I'll come to Cindy's birthday pa... wait, I've got a message coming in... OH SHIT OH SHIT OH SHIT - A RED LIGHT!
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593626</id>
	<title>Propaganda?</title>
	<author>CrazyDuke</author>
	<datestamp>1259856600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I read this and I almost immediately thought "propaganda."  Why?  A appeal to fear based on a insignificant and easily fixable event, then attempting to tie the fear to larger political concepts.  Fear change!  Fear green! Equals death!  Keep same!  Same is warm!  Same is reliable!  Same is safe!  You don't have to think about same!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I read this and I almost immediately thought " propaganda .
" Why ?
A appeal to fear based on a insignificant and easily fixable event , then attempting to tie the fear to larger political concepts .
Fear change !
Fear green !
Equals death !
Keep same !
Same is warm !
Same is reliable !
Same is safe !
You do n't have to think about same !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I read this and I almost immediately thought "propaganda.
"  Why?
A appeal to fear based on a insignificant and easily fixable event, then attempting to tie the fear to larger political concepts.
Fear change!
Fear green!
Equals death!
Keep same!
Same is warm!
Same is reliable!
Same is safe!
You don't have to think about same!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594836</id>
	<title>Re:Double whammy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259860500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Apparently, it takes more than 10 years for a native Floridian to find the heater controls in his vehicle after moving to a colder clime. But I suppose we can excuse it, as his blood vessels were constricted and he's been in a constant state of stupidity since moving.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Apparently , it takes more than 10 years for a native Floridian to find the heater controls in his vehicle after moving to a colder clime .
But I suppose we can excuse it , as his blood vessels were constricted and he 's been in a constant state of stupidity since moving .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Apparently, it takes more than 10 years for a native Floridian to find the heater controls in his vehicle after moving to a colder clime.
But I suppose we can excuse it, as his blood vessels were constricted and he's been in a constant state of stupidity since moving.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593660</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594332</id>
	<title>Re:Distinguish top from bottom</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259858940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Red/Green colorblindness is nothing new; that's why the lights are standardized to have green at the bottom and red at the top.  If you can't distinguish red from green, you can at least distinguish top from bottom.  Why is that not a perfectly acceptable solution?</p></div><p>On newer lights, the green is actually closer to blue.  The difference in shade is quite noticeable versus an old light.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Red/Green colorblindness is nothing new ; that 's why the lights are standardized to have green at the bottom and red at the top .
If you ca n't distinguish red from green , you can at least distinguish top from bottom .
Why is that not a perfectly acceptable solution ? On newer lights , the green is actually closer to blue .
The difference in shade is quite noticeable versus an old light .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Red/Green colorblindness is nothing new; that's why the lights are standardized to have green at the bottom and red at the top.
If you can't distinguish red from green, you can at least distinguish top from bottom.
Why is that not a perfectly acceptable solution?On newer lights, the green is actually closer to blue.
The difference in shade is quite noticeable versus an old light.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30601280</id>
	<title>Re:Propaganda?</title>
	<author>DarthPlagueisTheWiz</author>
	<datestamp>1259846100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You sir, sound like and idiot.  A feared idiot.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You sir , sound like and idiot .
A feared idiot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You sir, sound like and idiot.
A feared idiot.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593626</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593636</id>
	<title>NIGGA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259856600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>is dying.  Fact: *BSD is dead. llok at your soft, before playing to around return it what they think is for successful Baby take my includes where you 'Yes' to any</htmltext>
<tokenext>is dying .
Fact : * BSD is dead .
llok at your soft , before playing to around return it what they think is for successful Baby take my includes where you 'Yes ' to any</tokentext>
<sentencetext>is dying.
Fact: *BSD is dead.
llok at your soft, before playing to around return it what they think is for successful Baby take my includes where you 'Yes' to any</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30596516</id>
	<title>A-frame Lid</title>
	<author>transami</author>
	<datestamp>1259865600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Errr.. How about an A-frame lid on the light so the snow can just fall off.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Errr.. How about an A-frame lid on the light so the snow can just fall off .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Errr.. How about an A-frame lid on the light so the snow can just fall off.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594502</id>
	<title>Why do they trap snow?</title>
	<author>buss\_error</author>
	<datestamp>1259859420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, why does snow accumulate on the lights in the first place? Because there are nooks and crannies where it can land. Eliminate those, you get rid of a lot of the problem. Next, snow and ice accumulate because the water is just above freezing, and the traffic light is below freezing. It hits, freezes, and sticks. Reengining the shape of the light won't fix that, but common sense of the part of drivers will. If approaching a traffic light and it's indication isn't clear, treat it as a stop sign.</p><p>But no, too many drivers would rather cripple or kill others because they are in a hurry...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , why does snow accumulate on the lights in the first place ?
Because there are nooks and crannies where it can land .
Eliminate those , you get rid of a lot of the problem .
Next , snow and ice accumulate because the water is just above freezing , and the traffic light is below freezing .
It hits , freezes , and sticks .
Reengining the shape of the light wo n't fix that , but common sense of the part of drivers will .
If approaching a traffic light and it 's indication is n't clear , treat it as a stop sign.But no , too many drivers would rather cripple or kill others because they are in a hurry.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, why does snow accumulate on the lights in the first place?
Because there are nooks and crannies where it can land.
Eliminate those, you get rid of a lot of the problem.
Next, snow and ice accumulate because the water is just above freezing, and the traffic light is below freezing.
It hits, freezes, and sticks.
Reengining the shape of the light won't fix that, but common sense of the part of drivers will.
If approaching a traffic light and it's indication isn't clear, treat it as a stop sign.But no, too many drivers would rather cripple or kill others because they are in a hurry...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597484</id>
	<title>Re:Distinguish top from bottom</title>
	<author>Quiet\_Desperation</author>
	<datestamp>1259869320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I didn't get the comment,  either. I have the red/green issue, but the new LED lights mimic the original incandescent colors (which were selected with colorblindness in mind) well enough that it isn't a problem.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I did n't get the comment , either .
I have the red/green issue , but the new LED lights mimic the original incandescent colors ( which were selected with colorblindness in mind ) well enough that it is n't a problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I didn't get the comment,  either.
I have the red/green issue, but the new LED lights mimic the original incandescent colors (which were selected with colorblindness in mind) well enough that it isn't a problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30593652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30597470</id>
	<title>Re:Good Advice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259869260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Right, but as someone above pointed out, in the snow situation, only one side (or maybe two) thinks it's a four way, everyone else is following the lights.</p></div><p>So if you're the side that thinks it's a four-way stop, shouldn't you stop and wait for the rest of the traffic to cooperate? If you stop and they don't, just wait until things clear up. That seems like the logical thing to do.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Right , but as someone above pointed out , in the snow situation , only one side ( or maybe two ) thinks it 's a four way , everyone else is following the lights.So if you 're the side that thinks it 's a four-way stop , should n't you stop and wait for the rest of the traffic to cooperate ?
If you stop and they do n't , just wait until things clear up .
That seems like the logical thing to do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Right, but as someone above pointed out, in the snow situation, only one side (or maybe two) thinks it's a four way, everyone else is following the lights.So if you're the side that thinks it's a four-way stop, shouldn't you stop and wait for the rest of the traffic to cooperate?
If you stop and they don't, just wait until things clear up.
That seems like the logical thing to do.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_30_1322209.30594722</parent>
</comment>
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