<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_12_22_1754258</id>
	<title>The US Economy Needs More "Cool" Nerds</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1261509180000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="http://hughpickens.com/" rel="nofollow">Hugh Pickens</a> writes <i>"Steve Lohr writes in the NY Times that the country needs more 'cool' nerds &mdash; professionals with hybrid careers that <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/21/technology/21nerds.html">combine computing with other fields</a> like medicine, art, or journalism. Not enough young people are embracing computing, often because they are leery of being branded nerds. Educators and technologists say that two things need to change: the image of computing work, and computer science education in high schools. Today, introductory courses in computer science are too often focused merely on teaching students to use software like word processing and spreadsheet programs, says Janice C. Cuny, a program director at the National Science Foundation adding that the Advanced Placement curriculum concentrates too narrowly on programming. 'We're not showing and teaching kids the magic of computing,' Cuny says. The NSF is working to change this by developing a new introductory high school course in computer science and seeking to overhaul Advanced Placement courses as well. The NSF hopes to train 10,000 high school teachers in the modernized courses by 2015. Knowledge of computer science and computer programming is <a href="http://www.nsf.gov/news/news\_summ.jsp?cntn\_id=116059">becoming a necessary skill for many professions</a>, not only science and technology but also increasingly for <a href="http://www.nsf.gov/news/news\_summ.jsp?cntn\_id=116073">marketing, advertising, journalism and the creative arts</a>. 'We need to gain an understanding in the population that education in computer science is both extraordinarily important and extraordinarily interesting,' says Alfred Spector, vice president for research and special initiatives at Google. 'The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code. That is absolutely not the reality.'"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hugh Pickens writes " Steve Lohr writes in the NY Times that the country needs more 'cool ' nerds    professionals with hybrid careers that combine computing with other fields like medicine , art , or journalism .
Not enough young people are embracing computing , often because they are leery of being branded nerds .
Educators and technologists say that two things need to change : the image of computing work , and computer science education in high schools .
Today , introductory courses in computer science are too often focused merely on teaching students to use software like word processing and spreadsheet programs , says Janice C. Cuny , a program director at the National Science Foundation adding that the Advanced Placement curriculum concentrates too narrowly on programming .
'We 're not showing and teaching kids the magic of computing, ' Cuny says .
The NSF is working to change this by developing a new introductory high school course in computer science and seeking to overhaul Advanced Placement courses as well .
The NSF hopes to train 10,000 high school teachers in the modernized courses by 2015 .
Knowledge of computer science and computer programming is becoming a necessary skill for many professions , not only science and technology but also increasingly for marketing , advertising , journalism and the creative arts .
'We need to gain an understanding in the population that education in computer science is both extraordinarily important and extraordinarily interesting, ' says Alfred Spector , vice president for research and special initiatives at Google .
'The fear is that if you pursue computer science , you will be stuck in a basement , writing code .
That is absolutely not the reality .
' "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hugh Pickens writes "Steve Lohr writes in the NY Times that the country needs more 'cool' nerds — professionals with hybrid careers that combine computing with other fields like medicine, art, or journalism.
Not enough young people are embracing computing, often because they are leery of being branded nerds.
Educators and technologists say that two things need to change: the image of computing work, and computer science education in high schools.
Today, introductory courses in computer science are too often focused merely on teaching students to use software like word processing and spreadsheet programs, says Janice C. Cuny, a program director at the National Science Foundation adding that the Advanced Placement curriculum concentrates too narrowly on programming.
'We're not showing and teaching kids the magic of computing,' Cuny says.
The NSF is working to change this by developing a new introductory high school course in computer science and seeking to overhaul Advanced Placement courses as well.
The NSF hopes to train 10,000 high school teachers in the modernized courses by 2015.
Knowledge of computer science and computer programming is becoming a necessary skill for many professions, not only science and technology but also increasingly for marketing, advertising, journalism and the creative arts.
'We need to gain an understanding in the population that education in computer science is both extraordinarily important and extraordinarily interesting,' says Alfred Spector, vice president for research and special initiatives at Google.
'The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code.
That is absolutely not the reality.
'"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529484</id>
	<title>more like leery of doing any hard work</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261478340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Getting a degree in computing is a tremendous amount of hard work and not for the faint of heart<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... which is why I refuse to get one. At least I can pass an <a href="http://science.slashdot.org/story/09/11/12/206240/90-of-200-CUNY-Students-Cant-Do-Basic-Algebra-Problems" title="slashdot.org" rel="nofollow">Algebra</a> [slashdot.org] class! The simple truth is that computer science, algorithm analysis, etc<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... is extremely difficult to master. No one's afraid of being percieved as 'nerdy'<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... that'd be like being leery of being percieved as 'an eligible bachelor", "successful", "attractive", etc<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... but just like the aforementioned, being nerdy and being good at it as hard work. Computer science classes shouldn't just be required to get any and every degree in science there is<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... it should be required in order to graduate high school. People don't even know they might enjoy a career in computer science because the concept overwealms them. Children should be taught how to code as early as 6th grade and no later than their sophomore year of high school.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Getting a degree in computing is a tremendous amount of hard work and not for the faint of heart ... which is why I refuse to get one .
At least I can pass an Algebra [ slashdot.org ] class !
The simple truth is that computer science , algorithm analysis , etc ... is extremely difficult to master .
No one 's afraid of being percieved as 'nerdy ' ... that 'd be like being leery of being percieved as 'an eligible bachelor " , " successful " , " attractive " , etc ... but just like the aforementioned , being nerdy and being good at it as hard work .
Computer science classes should n't just be required to get any and every degree in science there is ... it should be required in order to graduate high school .
People do n't even know they might enjoy a career in computer science because the concept overwealms them .
Children should be taught how to code as early as 6th grade and no later than their sophomore year of high school .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Getting a degree in computing is a tremendous amount of hard work and not for the faint of heart ... which is why I refuse to get one.
At least I can pass an Algebra [slashdot.org] class!
The simple truth is that computer science, algorithm analysis, etc ... is extremely difficult to master.
No one's afraid of being percieved as 'nerdy' ... that'd be like being leery of being percieved as 'an eligible bachelor", "successful", "attractive", etc ... but just like the aforementioned, being nerdy and being good at it as hard work.
Computer science classes shouldn't just be required to get any and every degree in science there is ... it should be required in order to graduate high school.
People don't even know they might enjoy a career in computer science because the concept overwealms them.
Children should be taught how to code as early as 6th grade and no later than their sophomore year of high school.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529890</id>
	<title>It's 2009, not 1989</title>
	<author>Restil</author>
	<datestamp>1261480200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>20 years ago, I would agree with the assessment that people who had any remarkable skills, or even an interest in computers at all were branded nerds, geeks, or whathaveyou.  However, today, you'd be hardpressed to find ANY kid over the age of 5 that doesn't use a computer on a daily basis.  Its use as a tool is no longer considered taboo, and I seriously doubt that people avoid them as a career choice has anything to do with branding.  The possible problem today is that we're half a generation after high school students everywhere geared up for a computer science degree, and suddenly found themselves in an oversaturated market when the dotcom bust happened.  Many students that followed were probably wary of it and instead chose "safer" degree paths, and career paths as a result.</p><p>-Restil</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>20 years ago , I would agree with the assessment that people who had any remarkable skills , or even an interest in computers at all were branded nerds , geeks , or whathaveyou .
However , today , you 'd be hardpressed to find ANY kid over the age of 5 that does n't use a computer on a daily basis .
Its use as a tool is no longer considered taboo , and I seriously doubt that people avoid them as a career choice has anything to do with branding .
The possible problem today is that we 're half a generation after high school students everywhere geared up for a computer science degree , and suddenly found themselves in an oversaturated market when the dotcom bust happened .
Many students that followed were probably wary of it and instead chose " safer " degree paths , and career paths as a result.-Restil</tokentext>
<sentencetext>20 years ago, I would agree with the assessment that people who had any remarkable skills, or even an interest in computers at all were branded nerds, geeks, or whathaveyou.
However, today, you'd be hardpressed to find ANY kid over the age of 5 that doesn't use a computer on a daily basis.
Its use as a tool is no longer considered taboo, and I seriously doubt that people avoid them as a career choice has anything to do with branding.
The possible problem today is that we're half a generation after high school students everywhere geared up for a computer science degree, and suddenly found themselves in an oversaturated market when the dotcom bust happened.
Many students that followed were probably wary of it and instead chose "safer" degree paths, and career paths as a result.-Restil</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527848</id>
	<title>Re:Solution is easy</title>
	<author>nkcaump</author>
	<datestamp>1261515180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've dabbled in the programming language <a href="http://alice.org/" title="alice.org" rel="nofollow">Alice</a> [alice.org] and it's quite neat to see my seven year old manipulate things on the screen.  I am just trying to get him exposed to a lot of different things, computers, reading, baseball, swimming, and look at enhancing the things he becomes passionate about - whether that's football or C# programming.<br>

I can add to his base of knowledge by advising him, but ultimately, he'll need to climb the peaks and sustain the valleys.<br>

That being said, I will tell him that if he ever wants to get laid, he should stay away from Linux.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've dabbled in the programming language Alice [ alice.org ] and it 's quite neat to see my seven year old manipulate things on the screen .
I am just trying to get him exposed to a lot of different things , computers , reading , baseball , swimming , and look at enhancing the things he becomes passionate about - whether that 's football or C # programming .
I can add to his base of knowledge by advising him , but ultimately , he 'll need to climb the peaks and sustain the valleys .
That being said , I will tell him that if he ever wants to get laid , he should stay away from Linux .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've dabbled in the programming language Alice [alice.org] and it's quite neat to see my seven year old manipulate things on the screen.
I am just trying to get him exposed to a lot of different things, computers, reading, baseball, swimming, and look at enhancing the things he becomes passionate about - whether that's football or C# programming.
I can add to his base of knowledge by advising him, but ultimately, he'll need to climb the peaks and sustain the valleys.
That being said, I will tell him that if he ever wants to get laid, he should stay away from Linux.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527238</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528242</id>
	<title>Re:That's me!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261473300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I second this. I work in finance and you would not believe the amount of time the "operations" people spend doing manual tasks that would take maybe an hour to automate. There is some resistance to automation because people fear that they will be made obsolete.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I second this .
I work in finance and you would not believe the amount of time the " operations " people spend doing manual tasks that would take maybe an hour to automate .
There is some resistance to automation because people fear that they will be made obsolete .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I second this.
I work in finance and you would not believe the amount of time the "operations" people spend doing manual tasks that would take maybe an hour to automate.
There is some resistance to automation because people fear that they will be made obsolete.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527468</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527996</id>
	<title>Cool nerds?</title>
	<author>PenisLands</author>
	<datestamp>1261472460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Cool nerds... Oh, do you mean people who use facebook, who 'tweet', who blog from Starbucks with their Macbooks, and who listen to Lady Gaga on their iPods?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Cool nerds... Oh , do you mean people who use facebook , who 'tweet ' , who blog from Starbucks with their Macbooks , and who listen to Lady Gaga on their iPods ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cool nerds... Oh, do you mean people who use facebook, who 'tweet', who blog from Starbucks with their Macbooks, and who listen to Lady Gaga on their iPods?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527702</id>
	<title>You don't know what you're talking about.</title>
	<author>Monkeedude1212</author>
	<datestamp>1261514700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Not enough young people are embracing computing, often because they are leery of being branded nerds.</p></div><p>Really? REALLY? You think so? It couldn't be due to the fact that not everyone likes computers, that some would much rather be hanging out at a mall shopping, or seeing the latest movies, or running around in a field doing some sport or another. If you have a computer in the house, and you let your child browse the internet (with some filtering) - they can learn to surf the web by the time they enter grade school. (I know I did). This is a headstart to computer sciences. At first they'll learn about programs. They'll want one program or another after reading about it. But you can't help them install it, then they'll have to learn how to install a program. Or alternatively, they'll have to login to some webservice. They'll learn about usernames and passwords! Then once they've got that under their belt they will be ahead of the curve in computers.</p><p>The Guys and Gals that were labelled as Geeks were into computers long before they were labelled as geeks. I don't know of a single person who said "Yeah, I really like computers, but I stopped using it for fear of being a social outcast". You stayed up late to set a high score. You rushed home from school to pickup where you left off. Eventually the games themselves got boring and repetitive, but for whatever reason you LOVED your computer. So you start fiddling around with command prompt. Or you surf the web. One day you get curious as to what exactly DirectX does, so you look it up. If you spent too long on it however, Mom and Dad would tell you to shut it off.</p><p>And that is a perfect Segway into my next point - is that it's discouraged behavior. I was learning Visual basic when my Mom told me to stop playing my games and go do something productive. I wish I could have videotaped that part of my life and shown it to her now, shown her how much more productive learning that stuff on my own free will was than Re-Re-studying for a test I knew I could ace. I'm not a parent so I have no weight to these arguements whatsoever, but I think Parenting should be a little more flexible in that regard. Yeah, punish your kids when they do bad, but at least -LET- them make those mistakes. Show them multiple facets of the world, from sports, to arts, to science, and everything in between. Once they have the knowledge, they can choose what they find most entertaining, and persue that. And whatever they learn while persuing their passion will ultimately be a million times more valuable to them than anything you could teach them.</p><p>I'm not a father, though one day I might be. The one thing I look forward to is the day when my Child knows more about a subject than I do. Obviously, those lessons are something I can't teach them.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not enough young people are embracing computing , often because they are leery of being branded nerds.Really ?
REALLY ? You think so ?
It could n't be due to the fact that not everyone likes computers , that some would much rather be hanging out at a mall shopping , or seeing the latest movies , or running around in a field doing some sport or another .
If you have a computer in the house , and you let your child browse the internet ( with some filtering ) - they can learn to surf the web by the time they enter grade school .
( I know I did ) .
This is a headstart to computer sciences .
At first they 'll learn about programs .
They 'll want one program or another after reading about it .
But you ca n't help them install it , then they 'll have to learn how to install a program .
Or alternatively , they 'll have to login to some webservice .
They 'll learn about usernames and passwords !
Then once they 've got that under their belt they will be ahead of the curve in computers.The Guys and Gals that were labelled as Geeks were into computers long before they were labelled as geeks .
I do n't know of a single person who said " Yeah , I really like computers , but I stopped using it for fear of being a social outcast " .
You stayed up late to set a high score .
You rushed home from school to pickup where you left off .
Eventually the games themselves got boring and repetitive , but for whatever reason you LOVED your computer .
So you start fiddling around with command prompt .
Or you surf the web .
One day you get curious as to what exactly DirectX does , so you look it up .
If you spent too long on it however , Mom and Dad would tell you to shut it off.And that is a perfect Segway into my next point - is that it 's discouraged behavior .
I was learning Visual basic when my Mom told me to stop playing my games and go do something productive .
I wish I could have videotaped that part of my life and shown it to her now , shown her how much more productive learning that stuff on my own free will was than Re-Re-studying for a test I knew I could ace .
I 'm not a parent so I have no weight to these arguements whatsoever , but I think Parenting should be a little more flexible in that regard .
Yeah , punish your kids when they do bad , but at least -LET- them make those mistakes .
Show them multiple facets of the world , from sports , to arts , to science , and everything in between .
Once they have the knowledge , they can choose what they find most entertaining , and persue that .
And whatever they learn while persuing their passion will ultimately be a million times more valuable to them than anything you could teach them.I 'm not a father , though one day I might be .
The one thing I look forward to is the day when my Child knows more about a subject than I do .
Obviously , those lessons are something I ca n't teach them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not enough young people are embracing computing, often because they are leery of being branded nerds.Really?
REALLY? You think so?
It couldn't be due to the fact that not everyone likes computers, that some would much rather be hanging out at a mall shopping, or seeing the latest movies, or running around in a field doing some sport or another.
If you have a computer in the house, and you let your child browse the internet (with some filtering) - they can learn to surf the web by the time they enter grade school.
(I know I did).
This is a headstart to computer sciences.
At first they'll learn about programs.
They'll want one program or another after reading about it.
But you can't help them install it, then they'll have to learn how to install a program.
Or alternatively, they'll have to login to some webservice.
They'll learn about usernames and passwords!
Then once they've got that under their belt they will be ahead of the curve in computers.The Guys and Gals that were labelled as Geeks were into computers long before they were labelled as geeks.
I don't know of a single person who said "Yeah, I really like computers, but I stopped using it for fear of being a social outcast".
You stayed up late to set a high score.
You rushed home from school to pickup where you left off.
Eventually the games themselves got boring and repetitive, but for whatever reason you LOVED your computer.
So you start fiddling around with command prompt.
Or you surf the web.
One day you get curious as to what exactly DirectX does, so you look it up.
If you spent too long on it however, Mom and Dad would tell you to shut it off.And that is a perfect Segway into my next point - is that it's discouraged behavior.
I was learning Visual basic when my Mom told me to stop playing my games and go do something productive.
I wish I could have videotaped that part of my life and shown it to her now, shown her how much more productive learning that stuff on my own free will was than Re-Re-studying for a test I knew I could ace.
I'm not a parent so I have no weight to these arguements whatsoever, but I think Parenting should be a little more flexible in that regard.
Yeah, punish your kids when they do bad, but at least -LET- them make those mistakes.
Show them multiple facets of the world, from sports, to arts, to science, and everything in between.
Once they have the knowledge, they can choose what they find most entertaining, and persue that.
And whatever they learn while persuing their passion will ultimately be a million times more valuable to them than anything you could teach them.I'm not a father, though one day I might be.
The one thing I look forward to is the day when my Child knows more about a subject than I do.
Obviously, those lessons are something I can't teach them.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528626</id>
	<title>Re:The Onus Should Not Be on the Nerds</title>
	<author>burlysquid</author>
	<datestamp>1261474920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"...Sports -- that's another crucial example of the indoctrination system, in my view. For one thing because it...offers people something to pay attention to that's of no importance.That keeps them from worrying about things that matter to their lives that they might have some idea of doing something about..."    -Noam Chomsky

Sports are the great distraction of the past century...</htmltext>
<tokenext>" ...Sports -- that 's another crucial example of the indoctrination system , in my view .
For one thing because it...offers people something to pay attention to that 's of no importance.That keeps them from worrying about things that matter to their lives that they might have some idea of doing something about... " -Noam Chomsky Sports are the great distraction of the past century.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"...Sports -- that's another crucial example of the indoctrination system, in my view.
For one thing because it...offers people something to pay attention to that's of no importance.That keeps them from worrying about things that matter to their lives that they might have some idea of doing something about..."    -Noam Chomsky

Sports are the great distraction of the past century...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527648</id>
	<title>Like High School Teachers Are Cool</title>
	<author>mattwrock</author>
	<datestamp>1261514580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yeah , the High School teacher. The ultimate combination of an NFL all-star and American Idol contestant! They can barely teach the subject that went to school to teach others. The problem is that there are too many barriers for "outsiders" to have an after school club or part-time teaching. I am certain that User Groups, semi-retired technologists and others can really make a difference. Besides, the kids who do know, don't want to be found out. Not because they are nerds, but because they 1337 Haxxors!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , the High School teacher .
The ultimate combination of an NFL all-star and American Idol contestant !
They can barely teach the subject that went to school to teach others .
The problem is that there are too many barriers for " outsiders " to have an after school club or part-time teaching .
I am certain that User Groups , semi-retired technologists and others can really make a difference .
Besides , the kids who do know , do n't want to be found out .
Not because they are nerds , but because they 1337 Haxxors !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah , the High School teacher.
The ultimate combination of an NFL all-star and American Idol contestant!
They can barely teach the subject that went to school to teach others.
The problem is that there are too many barriers for "outsiders" to have an after school club or part-time teaching.
I am certain that User Groups, semi-retired technologists and others can really make a difference.
Besides, the kids who do know, don't want to be found out.
Not because they are nerds, but because they 1337 Haxxors!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528536</id>
	<title>Re:We have enough.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261474500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I just passed six figures this year (2.5 years out of college) -- but if they started calling me the "pink tutu goddess of networking" I think I'd mind.<p>
Now, purple, on the other hand...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I just passed six figures this year ( 2.5 years out of college ) -- but if they started calling me the " pink tutu goddess of networking " I think I 'd mind .
Now , purple , on the other hand.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just passed six figures this year (2.5 years out of college) -- but if they started calling me the "pink tutu goddess of networking" I think I'd mind.
Now, purple, on the other hand...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527346</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527398</id>
	<title>Re:The Onus Should Not Be on the Nerds</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261513800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Computer science is far more practical/pragmatic (and really productive for society as a whole) and monetarily rewarding later in life than football.</p></div></blockquote><p>The mean annual incomes of professionals in the fields of computer science and football might call into question the "monetarily rewarding" part of that statement.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Computer science is far more practical/pragmatic ( and really productive for society as a whole ) and monetarily rewarding later in life than football.The mean annual incomes of professionals in the fields of computer science and football might call into question the " monetarily rewarding " part of that statement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Computer science is far more practical/pragmatic (and really productive for society as a whole) and monetarily rewarding later in life than football.The mean annual incomes of professionals in the fields of computer science and football might call into question the "monetarily rewarding" part of that statement.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532342</id>
	<title>Re:The Onus Should Not Be on the Nerds</title>
	<author>dangitman</author>
	<datestamp>1261500180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> How many movies exist about musicians, writers, and actors?</p></div><p>Well, there's that one about the piano genius, Shiny McShine.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>How many songs are about music and dance? Too many.</p></div><p>Wait, what? There actually aren't very many songs <em>about</em> music. And it kind of makes sense that there are lots of songs about dancing, as songs are typically a medium to dance to.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How many movies exist about musicians , writers , and actors ? Well , there 's that one about the piano genius , Shiny McShine.How many songs are about music and dance ?
Too many.Wait , what ?
There actually are n't very many songs about music .
And it kind of makes sense that there are lots of songs about dancing , as songs are typically a medium to dance to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> How many movies exist about musicians, writers, and actors?Well, there's that one about the piano genius, Shiny McShine.How many songs are about music and dance?
Too many.Wait, what?
There actually aren't very many songs about music.
And it kind of makes sense that there are lots of songs about dancing, as songs are typically a medium to dance to.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527404</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527312</id>
	<title>Ob. Simpsons</title>
	<author>Nerdfest</author>
	<datestamp>1261513500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My mom says I'm cool.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My mom says I 'm cool .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My mom says I'm cool.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529260</id>
	<title>Re:Media Branding</title>
	<author>Bigbutt</author>
	<datestamp>1261477380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, Shadowrun and it's not alphabetized, it's ordered by stock number. As are the Paranoia, Call of Cthulhu, and even the D&amp;D (and AD&amp;D for the grognards among us) and smaller sets of books on the shelves. Much easier to find and use the correct rules for the version of the game you're playing (smaller set to look at).</p><p>[John]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , Shadowrun and it 's not alphabetized , it 's ordered by stock number .
As are the Paranoia , Call of Cthulhu , and even the D&amp;D ( and AD&amp;D for the grognards among us ) and smaller sets of books on the shelves .
Much easier to find and use the correct rules for the version of the game you 're playing ( smaller set to look at ) .
[ John ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, Shadowrun and it's not alphabetized, it's ordered by stock number.
As are the Paranoia, Call of Cthulhu, and even the D&amp;D (and AD&amp;D for the grognards among us) and smaller sets of books on the shelves.
Much easier to find and use the correct rules for the version of the game you're playing (smaller set to look at).
[John]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527368</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529584</id>
	<title>close</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1261478880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>" you will be stuck in a basement, writing code"</p><p>It's more like being sentenced by Judge Dredd:</p><p>"25 years in the cube, perp."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" you will be stuck in a basement , writing code " It 's more like being sentenced by Judge Dredd : " 25 years in the cube , perp .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>" you will be stuck in a basement, writing code"It's more like being sentenced by Judge Dredd:"25 years in the cube, perp.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527404</id>
	<title>Re:The Onus Should Not Be on the Nerds</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261513860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's a problem of values.  Americans, actually less so among the young generation now, tend to be anti-intellectual and revere anyone who can entertain them.  What we need to do is remove our culture's obsession (including its sexual obsession) with the entertainment industry, which all too often traces back to the entertainment industry just flagrantly masturbating.  How many movies exist about musicians, writers, and actors?  How many songs are about music and dance?  Too many.  How many movies or songs deal with technology, science, or engineering other than the ones about "tell NASA to assemble our hottest astronauts" Hollywood Science?  Not at all that many.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's a problem of values .
Americans , actually less so among the young generation now , tend to be anti-intellectual and revere anyone who can entertain them .
What we need to do is remove our culture 's obsession ( including its sexual obsession ) with the entertainment industry , which all too often traces back to the entertainment industry just flagrantly masturbating .
How many movies exist about musicians , writers , and actors ?
How many songs are about music and dance ?
Too many .
How many movies or songs deal with technology , science , or engineering other than the ones about " tell NASA to assemble our hottest astronauts " Hollywood Science ?
Not at all that many .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's a problem of values.
Americans, actually less so among the young generation now, tend to be anti-intellectual and revere anyone who can entertain them.
What we need to do is remove our culture's obsession (including its sexual obsession) with the entertainment industry, which all too often traces back to the entertainment industry just flagrantly masturbating.
How many movies exist about musicians, writers, and actors?
How many songs are about music and dance?
Too many.
How many movies or songs deal with technology, science, or engineering other than the ones about "tell NASA to assemble our hottest astronauts" Hollywood Science?
Not at all that many.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527230</id>
	<title>I think us nerds are doing fine...</title>
	<author>thisnamestoolong</author>
	<datestamp>1261513260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...There already are not enough tech jobs for us. Sure, we had a hard time in high school (at least I know I did), but we get our day eventually. Particularly for me, my day was last week when I saw one of the biggest, douchiest jocks from my high school working at the local car wash.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...There already are not enough tech jobs for us .
Sure , we had a hard time in high school ( at least I know I did ) , but we get our day eventually .
Particularly for me , my day was last week when I saw one of the biggest , douchiest jocks from my high school working at the local car wash .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...There already are not enough tech jobs for us.
Sure, we had a hard time in high school (at least I know I did), but we get our day eventually.
Particularly for me, my day was last week when I saw one of the biggest, douchiest jocks from my high school working at the local car wash.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527506</id>
	<title>Do It All</title>
	<author>Isbjorn</author>
	<datestamp>1261514160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>My kids are great at sports--AND they love to read. My oldest two have skipped a grade in school, they score off the charts on any standardized test. They are well liked and social leaders in their age group. They have their own computers (running two different flavors of Linux), but they'd just as soon go jump on a trampoline, go for a bike ride, go hiking, or kick butt in soccer. You want the real secret? Be a parent, enjoy these little people...we all know you enjoyed creating them<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-) Anyway, treat them with dignity and respect, spend time with them, and wow, you'd be amazed how successful they can be at anything!</htmltext>
<tokenext>My kids are great at sports--AND they love to read .
My oldest two have skipped a grade in school , they score off the charts on any standardized test .
They are well liked and social leaders in their age group .
They have their own computers ( running two different flavors of Linux ) , but they 'd just as soon go jump on a trampoline , go for a bike ride , go hiking , or kick butt in soccer .
You want the real secret ?
Be a parent , enjoy these little people...we all know you enjoyed creating them ; - ) Anyway , treat them with dignity and respect , spend time with them , and wow , you 'd be amazed how successful they can be at anything !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My kids are great at sports--AND they love to read.
My oldest two have skipped a grade in school, they score off the charts on any standardized test.
They are well liked and social leaders in their age group.
They have their own computers (running two different flavors of Linux), but they'd just as soon go jump on a trampoline, go for a bike ride, go hiking, or kick butt in soccer.
You want the real secret?
Be a parent, enjoy these little people...we all know you enjoyed creating them ;-) Anyway, treat them with dignity and respect, spend time with them, and wow, you'd be amazed how successful they can be at anything!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528068</id>
	<title>Re:Solution is easy</title>
	<author>tixxit</author>
	<datestamp>1261472700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yep, a good teacher can make a difference. In my gr. 12 comp. engineering class we got to build completely automated "sumo bots." We were given a BASIC Stamp board and a couple servo motors and were basically given free-reign after that. The final project was a sumo-bot competition. Other projects involved making the sumo bot follow lines on the floor, handle bumps, use infrared to detect objects and avoid them, etc. I really appreciated that class then and more-so now. The teacher could be an ass at times, but he was interested in the material and knew how to keep willing students interested (the class was very small, 5 or 6 students).</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yep , a good teacher can make a difference .
In my gr .
12 comp .
engineering class we got to build completely automated " sumo bots .
" We were given a BASIC Stamp board and a couple servo motors and were basically given free-reign after that .
The final project was a sumo-bot competition .
Other projects involved making the sumo bot follow lines on the floor , handle bumps , use infrared to detect objects and avoid them , etc .
I really appreciated that class then and more-so now .
The teacher could be an ass at times , but he was interested in the material and knew how to keep willing students interested ( the class was very small , 5 or 6 students ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yep, a good teacher can make a difference.
In my gr.
12 comp.
engineering class we got to build completely automated "sumo bots.
" We were given a BASIC Stamp board and a couple servo motors and were basically given free-reign after that.
The final project was a sumo-bot competition.
Other projects involved making the sumo bot follow lines on the floor, handle bumps, use infrared to detect objects and avoid them, etc.
I really appreciated that class then and more-so now.
The teacher could be an ass at times, but he was interested in the material and knew how to keep willing students interested (the class was very small, 5 or 6 students).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527238</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527346</id>
	<title>We have enough.</title>
	<author>girlintraining</author>
	<datestamp>1261513620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We have enough raw labor resources in this country to meet any technology demand. Don't blame the culture or this lame-ass idea that people are afraid of being labelled nerds. If I made six figures, they could call me the pink tutu goddess of networking and I wouldn't mind.</p><p>The problem is that businesses don't want to pay highly-trained and specialized workers more. They've tried outsourcing, right-sizing, downsizing, globalization, and every other way possible to screw people out of wages. And curiously enough, we keep coming back to the same problem -- no matter how big you make the labor pool, the required training and experience required to do these jobs demands a certain minimum income. Keynesian economics, I'm looking at you -- your adherents continue to believe that if they keep expanding the labor pool they'll reach a price point they want. Well, good luck with that...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We have enough raw labor resources in this country to meet any technology demand .
Do n't blame the culture or this lame-ass idea that people are afraid of being labelled nerds .
If I made six figures , they could call me the pink tutu goddess of networking and I would n't mind.The problem is that businesses do n't want to pay highly-trained and specialized workers more .
They 've tried outsourcing , right-sizing , downsizing , globalization , and every other way possible to screw people out of wages .
And curiously enough , we keep coming back to the same problem -- no matter how big you make the labor pool , the required training and experience required to do these jobs demands a certain minimum income .
Keynesian economics , I 'm looking at you -- your adherents continue to believe that if they keep expanding the labor pool they 'll reach a price point they want .
Well , good luck with that.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We have enough raw labor resources in this country to meet any technology demand.
Don't blame the culture or this lame-ass idea that people are afraid of being labelled nerds.
If I made six figures, they could call me the pink tutu goddess of networking and I wouldn't mind.The problem is that businesses don't want to pay highly-trained and specialized workers more.
They've tried outsourcing, right-sizing, downsizing, globalization, and every other way possible to screw people out of wages.
And curiously enough, we keep coming back to the same problem -- no matter how big you make the labor pool, the required training and experience required to do these jobs demands a certain minimum income.
Keynesian economics, I'm looking at you -- your adherents continue to believe that if they keep expanding the labor pool they'll reach a price point they want.
Well, good luck with that...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532632</id>
	<title>The media should quit ripping nerds.</title>
	<author>tjstork</author>
	<datestamp>1261503660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just because they don't have action poses or quick witted dialog on TV shows.  No, a lot of times, Nerds just like to figure things out, and actually think.  Letting people actually think, play, experiment, and make stuff is what made the USA great.  Having a bunch of idiots jabbering all the time is what wrecked the USA.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just because they do n't have action poses or quick witted dialog on TV shows .
No , a lot of times , Nerds just like to figure things out , and actually think .
Letting people actually think , play , experiment , and make stuff is what made the USA great .
Having a bunch of idiots jabbering all the time is what wrecked the USA .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just because they don't have action poses or quick witted dialog on TV shows.
No, a lot of times, Nerds just like to figure things out, and actually think.
Letting people actually think, play, experiment, and make stuff is what made the USA great.
Having a bunch of idiots jabbering all the time is what wrecked the USA.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527686</id>
	<title>Re:Solution is easy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261514700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would have killed for a "learn esoteric matlab graphing" class.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would have killed for a " learn esoteric matlab graphing " class .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would have killed for a "learn esoteric matlab graphing" class.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527238</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529210</id>
	<title>They do exist</title>
	<author>Shivinski</author>
	<datestamp>1261477200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There are computer "nerds" who aren't stereotypical. I agree, more needs to be done to encourage these people to emerge, but there certainly are some cool nerds out there....Infact I skydive regularly and as a part time job I do fashion photography for various commercial sectors. So we do exist, but there's nowhere near enough of us!</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are computer " nerds " who are n't stereotypical .
I agree , more needs to be done to encourage these people to emerge , but there certainly are some cool nerds out there....Infact I skydive regularly and as a part time job I do fashion photography for various commercial sectors .
So we do exist , but there 's nowhere near enough of us !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are computer "nerds" who aren't stereotypical.
I agree, more needs to be done to encourage these people to emerge, but there certainly are some cool nerds out there....Infact I skydive regularly and as a part time job I do fashion photography for various commercial sectors.
So we do exist, but there's nowhere near enough of us!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528996</id>
	<title>and the problem is?</title>
	<author>Tablizer</author>
	<datestamp>1261476420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code.</p></div></blockquote><p>That's <i>why</i> we went into it: sunshine and people are scary<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The fear is that if you pursue computer science , you will be stuck in a basement , writing code.That 's why we went into it : sunshine and people are scary : - )        </tokentext>
<sentencetext>The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code.That's why we went into it: sunshine and people are scary :-)
       
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529658</id>
	<title>Follow the money</title>
	<author>Radical Moderate</author>
	<datestamp>1261479180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In the 80s computer science was a popular major because anybody with that degree could make good money right off the bat.  Now that experienced IT professionals are seeing their jobs off-shored,  why would anyone want to devote the time and money to start a career with zero security?</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the 80s computer science was a popular major because anybody with that degree could make good money right off the bat .
Now that experienced IT professionals are seeing their jobs off-shored , why would anyone want to devote the time and money to start a career with zero security ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the 80s computer science was a popular major because anybody with that degree could make good money right off the bat.
Now that experienced IT professionals are seeing their jobs off-shored,  why would anyone want to devote the time and money to start a career with zero security?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527626</id>
	<title>Loans... again? I would love to but...</title>
	<author>HerculesMO</author>
	<datestamp>1261514520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At the moment in a purely IT role (some management, some hands on, etc), I make about the same amount as an average doctor and work less hours. Granted I'm sure that some specialists make a lot more, but the simple fact is that there isn't a motivation to move.</p><p>To be honest, I have considered pursuing a medical degree -- not for the money, but for my own interest. Looking at the amount of time I have to invest, looking at the amounts of loans I have to take out, looking at the long term gain -- it's not worth it.</p><p>The way government controls behavior is through taxation. If they want people to drive hybrids, they can tax gasoline. That's why europeans drive smaller cars -- because gas costs more due to taxes. If they want people to stop drinking, or stop eating McDonalds or whatever -- they can tax accordingly. But unfortunately in the last few years of our economy, it's become abundantly clear that people with a finance degree and the ability to reap rewards on a short term (bonuses) while screwing other people out of the long term is what is valued in our country. Do we value educators? Do we value doctors? Not really -- many articles surrounding healthcare debate lie in the idea that "doctors make too much", when given the lifestyle and hours they work, they should honestly be paid more.</p><p>Making a person like me jump from IT into healthcare or be crosstrained in order to better the country as a whole to me, is a great idea. I just can't burden the expense -- again. I have gone through the system that is there, and wound up many thousands in debt due to school loans. If we want more 'cool nerds', then somebody has to start putting the emphasis back on aspiring to be a doctor, a teacher, a scientist (the kind with beakers, not computers), etc. Not having kids aspire to be the next Michael Jordan or Jay Z.</p><p>Unfortunately it's a myth that is perpetuated and we keep buying into it. Sadly, other countries see our folly and already accelerate ahead of us (the US) in many, many areas. We are the best at a lot of things, but for how long? Hopefully our behaviors can change so that a person like myself that actually wants to contribute in a meaningful way, can.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At the moment in a purely IT role ( some management , some hands on , etc ) , I make about the same amount as an average doctor and work less hours .
Granted I 'm sure that some specialists make a lot more , but the simple fact is that there is n't a motivation to move.To be honest , I have considered pursuing a medical degree -- not for the money , but for my own interest .
Looking at the amount of time I have to invest , looking at the amounts of loans I have to take out , looking at the long term gain -- it 's not worth it.The way government controls behavior is through taxation .
If they want people to drive hybrids , they can tax gasoline .
That 's why europeans drive smaller cars -- because gas costs more due to taxes .
If they want people to stop drinking , or stop eating McDonalds or whatever -- they can tax accordingly .
But unfortunately in the last few years of our economy , it 's become abundantly clear that people with a finance degree and the ability to reap rewards on a short term ( bonuses ) while screwing other people out of the long term is what is valued in our country .
Do we value educators ?
Do we value doctors ?
Not really -- many articles surrounding healthcare debate lie in the idea that " doctors make too much " , when given the lifestyle and hours they work , they should honestly be paid more.Making a person like me jump from IT into healthcare or be crosstrained in order to better the country as a whole to me , is a great idea .
I just ca n't burden the expense -- again .
I have gone through the system that is there , and wound up many thousands in debt due to school loans .
If we want more 'cool nerds ' , then somebody has to start putting the emphasis back on aspiring to be a doctor , a teacher , a scientist ( the kind with beakers , not computers ) , etc .
Not having kids aspire to be the next Michael Jordan or Jay Z.Unfortunately it 's a myth that is perpetuated and we keep buying into it .
Sadly , other countries see our folly and already accelerate ahead of us ( the US ) in many , many areas .
We are the best at a lot of things , but for how long ?
Hopefully our behaviors can change so that a person like myself that actually wants to contribute in a meaningful way , can .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At the moment in a purely IT role (some management, some hands on, etc), I make about the same amount as an average doctor and work less hours.
Granted I'm sure that some specialists make a lot more, but the simple fact is that there isn't a motivation to move.To be honest, I have considered pursuing a medical degree -- not for the money, but for my own interest.
Looking at the amount of time I have to invest, looking at the amounts of loans I have to take out, looking at the long term gain -- it's not worth it.The way government controls behavior is through taxation.
If they want people to drive hybrids, they can tax gasoline.
That's why europeans drive smaller cars -- because gas costs more due to taxes.
If they want people to stop drinking, or stop eating McDonalds or whatever -- they can tax accordingly.
But unfortunately in the last few years of our economy, it's become abundantly clear that people with a finance degree and the ability to reap rewards on a short term (bonuses) while screwing other people out of the long term is what is valued in our country.
Do we value educators?
Do we value doctors?
Not really -- many articles surrounding healthcare debate lie in the idea that "doctors make too much", when given the lifestyle and hours they work, they should honestly be paid more.Making a person like me jump from IT into healthcare or be crosstrained in order to better the country as a whole to me, is a great idea.
I just can't burden the expense -- again.
I have gone through the system that is there, and wound up many thousands in debt due to school loans.
If we want more 'cool nerds', then somebody has to start putting the emphasis back on aspiring to be a doctor, a teacher, a scientist (the kind with beakers, not computers), etc.
Not having kids aspire to be the next Michael Jordan or Jay Z.Unfortunately it's a myth that is perpetuated and we keep buying into it.
Sadly, other countries see our folly and already accelerate ahead of us (the US) in many, many areas.
We are the best at a lot of things, but for how long?
Hopefully our behaviors can change so that a person like myself that actually wants to contribute in a meaningful way, can.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112</id>
	<title>The Onus Should Not Be on the Nerds</title>
	<author>eldavojohn</author>
	<datestamp>1261512780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Rather, the burden of change should be placed on the populace (parents especially) and media.  <br> <br>

I'm going to make some statements with absolutely no sort of proof, weight or even statistics behind them.  Statements which need no proof because if you've gone through the American educational system, you know that what I am saying is the truth.  <br> <br>

Football (really sports in general) is more important to teenagers and parents than computer science.  <br> <br>

Computer science is far more practical/pragmatic (and really productive for society as a whole) and monetarily rewarding later in life than football.  <br> <br>

This isn't pressure from the kids.  Kids don't develop these hierarchies of what's more important than other things on their own.  They get this from their peers who in turn get it from their parents, teachers and--most importantly--the media.  Football is the entertainment industry.  There are a small percentage of high school football players that go on to hold <i>all</i> the wealth.  All the wealth is controlled or pushed through a single league--the NFL.  Kids don't realize that their chances of playing in the NFL are equivalent to winning the lottery.  And they pass up much more applicable things like math in order to be better at sports.  This is what's wrong with the picture.  Don't blame nerds for not being iconic enough or cool enough or social enough.  <br> <br>

This has slowly turned as shows and parents have realized that the brilliant nerds they graduated with--the ones that spoke Klingon--actually went on to do really cool things with technology.  Not only are they really cool but the whole world is trying to throw cash at them in exchange for their services.  Compare that to captain of the football team.  <br> <br>

I don't want you to write off sports entirely, a healthy body is necessary to live a long life and moderate exercise is actually good for your intelligence.  What I'm asking people to do is when they sit down as a father and spend <i>three hours</i> cheering for their team, they should realize that in order to instill a more pragmatic value in their child (who watches and mimics their every move) they should turn around and spend an equally amount of emphasis on how important math, academics, computer science, etc is to their child.  <br> <br>

That's not happening.  Our economy is suffering from irresponsible parents breeding a generation of gamblers.  And by and large they lose--there's just not enough money in entertainment to go around to every high school football player.  There is, however, more than enough money in technology to go around to every high school hobbyist that got out in the real world and applied their knowledge.  <br> <br>

I'm not a parent but I'd like to ask all the Slashdotters that are parents that have pushed their children in sports and physical abilities to devote more time to that than reading or studying: why do we do this to our kids?  And secondly, do you realize you're creating an ecosystem for other people's kids when your kids reinforce the idea that sports are more important than knowledge and they are the path to success?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Rather , the burden of change should be placed on the populace ( parents especially ) and media .
I 'm going to make some statements with absolutely no sort of proof , weight or even statistics behind them .
Statements which need no proof because if you 've gone through the American educational system , you know that what I am saying is the truth .
Football ( really sports in general ) is more important to teenagers and parents than computer science .
Computer science is far more practical/pragmatic ( and really productive for society as a whole ) and monetarily rewarding later in life than football .
This is n't pressure from the kids .
Kids do n't develop these hierarchies of what 's more important than other things on their own .
They get this from their peers who in turn get it from their parents , teachers and--most importantly--the media .
Football is the entertainment industry .
There are a small percentage of high school football players that go on to hold all the wealth .
All the wealth is controlled or pushed through a single league--the NFL .
Kids do n't realize that their chances of playing in the NFL are equivalent to winning the lottery .
And they pass up much more applicable things like math in order to be better at sports .
This is what 's wrong with the picture .
Do n't blame nerds for not being iconic enough or cool enough or social enough .
This has slowly turned as shows and parents have realized that the brilliant nerds they graduated with--the ones that spoke Klingon--actually went on to do really cool things with technology .
Not only are they really cool but the whole world is trying to throw cash at them in exchange for their services .
Compare that to captain of the football team .
I do n't want you to write off sports entirely , a healthy body is necessary to live a long life and moderate exercise is actually good for your intelligence .
What I 'm asking people to do is when they sit down as a father and spend three hours cheering for their team , they should realize that in order to instill a more pragmatic value in their child ( who watches and mimics their every move ) they should turn around and spend an equally amount of emphasis on how important math , academics , computer science , etc is to their child .
That 's not happening .
Our economy is suffering from irresponsible parents breeding a generation of gamblers .
And by and large they lose--there 's just not enough money in entertainment to go around to every high school football player .
There is , however , more than enough money in technology to go around to every high school hobbyist that got out in the real world and applied their knowledge .
I 'm not a parent but I 'd like to ask all the Slashdotters that are parents that have pushed their children in sports and physical abilities to devote more time to that than reading or studying : why do we do this to our kids ?
And secondly , do you realize you 're creating an ecosystem for other people 's kids when your kids reinforce the idea that sports are more important than knowledge and they are the path to success ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Rather, the burden of change should be placed on the populace (parents especially) and media.
I'm going to make some statements with absolutely no sort of proof, weight or even statistics behind them.
Statements which need no proof because if you've gone through the American educational system, you know that what I am saying is the truth.
Football (really sports in general) is more important to teenagers and parents than computer science.
Computer science is far more practical/pragmatic (and really productive for society as a whole) and monetarily rewarding later in life than football.
This isn't pressure from the kids.
Kids don't develop these hierarchies of what's more important than other things on their own.
They get this from their peers who in turn get it from their parents, teachers and--most importantly--the media.
Football is the entertainment industry.
There are a small percentage of high school football players that go on to hold all the wealth.
All the wealth is controlled or pushed through a single league--the NFL.
Kids don't realize that their chances of playing in the NFL are equivalent to winning the lottery.
And they pass up much more applicable things like math in order to be better at sports.
This is what's wrong with the picture.
Don't blame nerds for not being iconic enough or cool enough or social enough.
This has slowly turned as shows and parents have realized that the brilliant nerds they graduated with--the ones that spoke Klingon--actually went on to do really cool things with technology.
Not only are they really cool but the whole world is trying to throw cash at them in exchange for their services.
Compare that to captain of the football team.
I don't want you to write off sports entirely, a healthy body is necessary to live a long life and moderate exercise is actually good for your intelligence.
What I'm asking people to do is when they sit down as a father and spend three hours cheering for their team, they should realize that in order to instill a more pragmatic value in their child (who watches and mimics their every move) they should turn around and spend an equally amount of emphasis on how important math, academics, computer science, etc is to their child.
That's not happening.
Our economy is suffering from irresponsible parents breeding a generation of gamblers.
And by and large they lose--there's just not enough money in entertainment to go around to every high school football player.
There is, however, more than enough money in technology to go around to every high school hobbyist that got out in the real world and applied their knowledge.
I'm not a parent but I'd like to ask all the Slashdotters that are parents that have pushed their children in sports and physical abilities to devote more time to that than reading or studying: why do we do this to our kids?
And secondly, do you realize you're creating an ecosystem for other people's kids when your kids reinforce the idea that sports are more important than knowledge and they are the path to success?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527838</id>
	<title>Yeah, right</title>
	<author>Locke2005</author>
	<datestamp>1261515120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code. That is absolutely not the reality.</i> How true! The vast majority are instead stuck in a <b>cubicle</b>, writing code. Basements are pass&#233;!</htmltext>
<tokenext>The fear is that if you pursue computer science , you will be stuck in a basement , writing code .
That is absolutely not the reality .
How true !
The vast majority are instead stuck in a cubicle , writing code .
Basements are pass   !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code.
That is absolutely not the reality.
How true!
The vast majority are instead stuck in a cubicle, writing code.
Basements are passé!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529240</id>
	<title>Industry knowledge is simply not valued</title>
	<author>Tablizer</author>
	<datestamp>1261477320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Many of my fellow techies have observed that "domain knowledge" is simply not valued. It's always a specific set of tools and IT buzzwords companies are looking for, not domain knowledge. One time industry knowledge on my resume helped me land a contract, but it was still the tech tools/languages that got me on the review list. If companies value domain knowledge more than tool knowledge, they <b>don't act like it</b>. This article simply contradicts my multi-decade experience in the IT field. Something is out of whack.</p><p>Maybe the article is simply a big euphemism for "nerds need more people skills". That may be true, but they seem too timid to outright say it. Sure, <b>every company wants somebody with A+ people skills and A+ tech skills and wants to pay them D wages</b>. And I want a Ferrari that runs on water.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Many of my fellow techies have observed that " domain knowledge " is simply not valued .
It 's always a specific set of tools and IT buzzwords companies are looking for , not domain knowledge .
One time industry knowledge on my resume helped me land a contract , but it was still the tech tools/languages that got me on the review list .
If companies value domain knowledge more than tool knowledge , they do n't act like it .
This article simply contradicts my multi-decade experience in the IT field .
Something is out of whack.Maybe the article is simply a big euphemism for " nerds need more people skills " .
That may be true , but they seem too timid to outright say it .
Sure , every company wants somebody with A + people skills and A + tech skills and wants to pay them D wages .
And I want a Ferrari that runs on water .
       </tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many of my fellow techies have observed that "domain knowledge" is simply not valued.
It's always a specific set of tools and IT buzzwords companies are looking for, not domain knowledge.
One time industry knowledge on my resume helped me land a contract, but it was still the tech tools/languages that got me on the review list.
If companies value domain knowledge more than tool knowledge, they don't act like it.
This article simply contradicts my multi-decade experience in the IT field.
Something is out of whack.Maybe the article is simply a big euphemism for "nerds need more people skills".
That may be true, but they seem too timid to outright say it.
Sure, every company wants somebody with A+ people skills and A+ tech skills and wants to pay them D wages.
And I want a Ferrari that runs on water.
       </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527212</id>
	<title>Fear of Being Stereotyped?  Really?</title>
	<author>introspekt.i</author>
	<datestamp>1261513200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Not enough young people are embracing computing, often because they are leery of being branded nerds.</p></div><p>I think a lot of young people just don't find it interesting.  I think a lot of older people feel the same way.  People tend to do what they're passionate about, and passionate people tend to think less of the opinions of others and more about what they want to do.  Do we really need to press this field on more people?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not enough young people are embracing computing , often because they are leery of being branded nerds.I think a lot of young people just do n't find it interesting .
I think a lot of older people feel the same way .
People tend to do what they 're passionate about , and passionate people tend to think less of the opinions of others and more about what they want to do .
Do we really need to press this field on more people ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not enough young people are embracing computing, often because they are leery of being branded nerds.I think a lot of young people just don't find it interesting.
I think a lot of older people feel the same way.
People tend to do what they're passionate about, and passionate people tend to think less of the opinions of others and more about what they want to do.
Do we really need to press this field on more people?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528082</id>
	<title>'Cool' Nerds</title>
	<author>Orion Blastar</author>
	<datestamp>1261472760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Many of us Nerds are already Cool. I majored in Computer Science but minored in Physics and Engineering, then in Information Systems and minored in Supervision Management, and then I went for Business Management and minored in e-Commerce and Computer Science. I've taken a wide variety of college courses from many colleges. Mostly I can do computers and business as I ran two small businesses in the past. After the Dotcom bubble burst many of us programmers learned a second or third career skill in order to survive.</p><p>You'll have an easier time getting current comp sci graduates to go back for business, art, law, science, etc than you can get non-comp sci majors to go back for comp sci. Computer science and programming is not for everyone. We've already had the market flooded with comp sci graduates that barely know what they are doing after the Dotcom busts as the high programmer salaries got many copycats but very few that are talented enough to be competent.</p><p><a href="http://www.geometricvisions.com/" title="geometricvisions.com">One of my friends Michael</a> [geometricvisions.com], he had a physics degree but he learned programming on the side, and worked at Apple debugging Macintosh System 7.5.X and after Apple laid him off he has worked for many different companies and even started up his own business. He is one of those 'Cool' Nerds but he struggles to find work due to his <a href="http://www.geometricvisions.com/schizoaffective-disorder/" title="geometricvisions.com">schizoaffective disorder</a> [geometricvisions.com] that he suffers from.</p><p>Now me I have schizoaffective disorder and I did great at art and music when I was in school, but I had to hide those talents as employers didn't like me having them and I had to take them off my resume to get hired. I owned an Amiga 1000 and Deluxe Paint II and I used to paint stuff and use Music Construction Set to design music. But I don't have the software these days to do that anymore, although I could find FOSS music and art programs if I looked hard enough. But I used to design web sites and created my own art as well. Many who create web sites and program them already have art and music skills but we hide them.</p><p>I think I can better serve the FOSS community via writing, doing business and legal software and documents and templates and trying to meet the needs of small businesses like I used to run. But I can do art and music with the right software if I wanted to and become a 'Cool' Nerd.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Many of us Nerds are already Cool .
I majored in Computer Science but minored in Physics and Engineering , then in Information Systems and minored in Supervision Management , and then I went for Business Management and minored in e-Commerce and Computer Science .
I 've taken a wide variety of college courses from many colleges .
Mostly I can do computers and business as I ran two small businesses in the past .
After the Dotcom bubble burst many of us programmers learned a second or third career skill in order to survive.You 'll have an easier time getting current comp sci graduates to go back for business , art , law , science , etc than you can get non-comp sci majors to go back for comp sci .
Computer science and programming is not for everyone .
We 've already had the market flooded with comp sci graduates that barely know what they are doing after the Dotcom busts as the high programmer salaries got many copycats but very few that are talented enough to be competent.One of my friends Michael [ geometricvisions.com ] , he had a physics degree but he learned programming on the side , and worked at Apple debugging Macintosh System 7.5.X and after Apple laid him off he has worked for many different companies and even started up his own business .
He is one of those 'Cool ' Nerds but he struggles to find work due to his schizoaffective disorder [ geometricvisions.com ] that he suffers from.Now me I have schizoaffective disorder and I did great at art and music when I was in school , but I had to hide those talents as employers did n't like me having them and I had to take them off my resume to get hired .
I owned an Amiga 1000 and Deluxe Paint II and I used to paint stuff and use Music Construction Set to design music .
But I do n't have the software these days to do that anymore , although I could find FOSS music and art programs if I looked hard enough .
But I used to design web sites and created my own art as well .
Many who create web sites and program them already have art and music skills but we hide them.I think I can better serve the FOSS community via writing , doing business and legal software and documents and templates and trying to meet the needs of small businesses like I used to run .
But I can do art and music with the right software if I wanted to and become a 'Cool ' Nerd .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many of us Nerds are already Cool.
I majored in Computer Science but minored in Physics and Engineering, then in Information Systems and minored in Supervision Management, and then I went for Business Management and minored in e-Commerce and Computer Science.
I've taken a wide variety of college courses from many colleges.
Mostly I can do computers and business as I ran two small businesses in the past.
After the Dotcom bubble burst many of us programmers learned a second or third career skill in order to survive.You'll have an easier time getting current comp sci graduates to go back for business, art, law, science, etc than you can get non-comp sci majors to go back for comp sci.
Computer science and programming is not for everyone.
We've already had the market flooded with comp sci graduates that barely know what they are doing after the Dotcom busts as the high programmer salaries got many copycats but very few that are talented enough to be competent.One of my friends Michael [geometricvisions.com], he had a physics degree but he learned programming on the side, and worked at Apple debugging Macintosh System 7.5.X and after Apple laid him off he has worked for many different companies and even started up his own business.
He is one of those 'Cool' Nerds but he struggles to find work due to his schizoaffective disorder [geometricvisions.com] that he suffers from.Now me I have schizoaffective disorder and I did great at art and music when I was in school, but I had to hide those talents as employers didn't like me having them and I had to take them off my resume to get hired.
I owned an Amiga 1000 and Deluxe Paint II and I used to paint stuff and use Music Construction Set to design music.
But I don't have the software these days to do that anymore, although I could find FOSS music and art programs if I looked hard enough.
But I used to design web sites and created my own art as well.
Many who create web sites and program them already have art and music skills but we hide them.I think I can better serve the FOSS community via writing, doing business and legal software and documents and templates and trying to meet the needs of small businesses like I used to run.
But I can do art and music with the right software if I wanted to and become a 'Cool' Nerd.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532358</id>
	<title>You "nerds"!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261500360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem with the whole "nerd" perception originates from the so called nerdy attitude towards laymen. Of course, if somebody tells me that it's too complicated for you to understand, so I'm not gonna bother explaining, nevertheless because you don't know what I know you're a worthless piece of sh*t then I am going to discard them as nerd or something even worse. However, the truth is that people, in general, do acknowledge and respect somebody who is passionate in their field. In my experience as an applied physicist in Europe it has only been a couple of times when somebody's opinion has been influenced by what I do. ( and as a matter of fact, i don't want to have anything to do with those people) In conclusion... get the fuck out of your basements and talk to people, it will pay off better than you think.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem with the whole " nerd " perception originates from the so called nerdy attitude towards laymen .
Of course , if somebody tells me that it 's too complicated for you to understand , so I 'm not gon na bother explaining , nevertheless because you do n't know what I know you 're a worthless piece of sh * t then I am going to discard them as nerd or something even worse .
However , the truth is that people , in general , do acknowledge and respect somebody who is passionate in their field .
In my experience as an applied physicist in Europe it has only been a couple of times when somebody 's opinion has been influenced by what I do .
( and as a matter of fact , i do n't want to have anything to do with those people ) In conclusion... get the fuck out of your basements and talk to people , it will pay off better than you think .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem with the whole "nerd" perception originates from the so called nerdy attitude towards laymen.
Of course, if somebody tells me that it's too complicated for you to understand, so I'm not gonna bother explaining, nevertheless because you don't know what I know you're a worthless piece of sh*t then I am going to discard them as nerd or something even worse.
However, the truth is that people, in general, do acknowledge and respect somebody who is passionate in their field.
In my experience as an applied physicist in Europe it has only been a couple of times when somebody's opinion has been influenced by what I do.
( and as a matter of fact, i don't want to have anything to do with those people) In conclusion... get the fuck out of your basements and talk to people, it will pay off better than you think.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529070</id>
	<title>Or maybe...</title>
	<author>tsotha</author>
	<datestamp>1261476600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Not enough young people are embracing computing, often because they are leery of being branded nerds.</p></div></blockquote><p>Or, more likely, they don't want to move to India to get a job.  I have a programming job right now, but a lot of developers I know are sitting at home in their underwear drinking beer and watching TV all day because they can't even get an interview, let alone a job.  Of course some of that's the economy, but offshoring isn't going away.  When the economy picks back up it seems likely that most of the new programming jobs will be in other countries.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not enough young people are embracing computing , often because they are leery of being branded nerds.Or , more likely , they do n't want to move to India to get a job .
I have a programming job right now , but a lot of developers I know are sitting at home in their underwear drinking beer and watching TV all day because they ca n't even get an interview , let alone a job .
Of course some of that 's the economy , but offshoring is n't going away .
When the economy picks back up it seems likely that most of the new programming jobs will be in other countries .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not enough young people are embracing computing, often because they are leery of being branded nerds.Or, more likely, they don't want to move to India to get a job.
I have a programming job right now, but a lot of developers I know are sitting at home in their underwear drinking beer and watching TV all day because they can't even get an interview, let alone a job.
Of course some of that's the economy, but offshoring isn't going away.
When the economy picks back up it seems likely that most of the new programming jobs will be in other countries.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527222</id>
	<title>A lot of nerds are cool...</title>
	<author>Drethon</author>
	<datestamp>1261513260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>It just seems like people focus on the nerd doing the job instead of the damn cool results a lot of nerds produce, though maybe its just my perception...</htmltext>
<tokenext>It just seems like people focus on the nerd doing the job instead of the damn cool results a lot of nerds produce , though maybe its just my perception.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It just seems like people focus on the nerd doing the job instead of the damn cool results a lot of nerds produce, though maybe its just my perception...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527658</id>
	<title>Siverek</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261514580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem is that businesses don't want to pay highly-trained and specialized workers more.</p><p>In my experience, even during this recent recession, payscales for software</p><p>http://www.sivereknet.com</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is that businesses do n't want to pay highly-trained and specialized workers more.In my experience , even during this recent recession , payscales for softwarehttp : //www.sivereknet.com</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is that businesses don't want to pay highly-trained and specialized workers more.In my experience, even during this recent recession, payscales for softwarehttp://www.sivereknet.com</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527868</id>
	<title>LOL?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261515240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Today, introductory courses in computer science are too often focused merely on teaching students to use software like word processing and spreadsheet programs,</p></div><p>Seriously? I mean, they teach that stuff in computer <i>science</i> classes?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Today , introductory courses in computer science are too often focused merely on teaching students to use software like word processing and spreadsheet programs,Seriously ?
I mean , they teach that stuff in computer science classes ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Today, introductory courses in computer science are too often focused merely on teaching students to use software like word processing and spreadsheet programs,Seriously?
I mean, they teach that stuff in computer science classes?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30533914</id>
	<title>Re:idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259754300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>(that's NOT to say that <b>academic engineers</b> aren't important, but we seem to not have a balance here in the USA)</p></div><p>We here in Germany call those physicists<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>( that 's NOT to say that academic engineers are n't important , but we seem to not have a balance here in the USA ) We here in Germany call those physicists ; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>(that's NOT to say that academic engineers aren't important, but we seem to not have a balance here in the USA)We here in Germany call those physicists ;-)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30530114</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30531702</id>
	<title>Re:That's me!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261492080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Amen.  In my opinion, a properly run business wouldn't need an IT department at all.  Really.</p><p>And that doesn't mean that IT worker's jobs would be in jeopardy, but being and IT jock alone doesn't cut it either.</p><p>The best workers are hybrids.  People who focus on IT alone earn the niche positions they occupy, because they fall into their own belly buttons instead of using IT to advance business interests.  On the other hand, it's time companies recognize that employees who don't know how to keep up with computer technology are as deficient as people who can neither read nor write.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Amen .
In my opinion , a properly run business would n't need an IT department at all .
Really.And that does n't mean that IT worker 's jobs would be in jeopardy , but being and IT jock alone does n't cut it either.The best workers are hybrids .
People who focus on IT alone earn the niche positions they occupy , because they fall into their own belly buttons instead of using IT to advance business interests .
On the other hand , it 's time companies recognize that employees who do n't know how to keep up with computer technology are as deficient as people who can neither read nor write .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Amen.
In my opinion, a properly run business wouldn't need an IT department at all.
Really.And that doesn't mean that IT worker's jobs would be in jeopardy, but being and IT jock alone doesn't cut it either.The best workers are hybrids.
People who focus on IT alone earn the niche positions they occupy, because they fall into their own belly buttons instead of using IT to advance business interests.
On the other hand, it's time companies recognize that employees who don't know how to keep up with computer technology are as deficient as people who can neither read nor write.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527468</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528862</id>
	<title>Re:I am a "cool" nerd and totally agree.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261475880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The only bits of nerd I saw in your post were 'WoW' (negated by the fact that you don't actually play), 'BioShock' (again, just buying the product doesn't make you a nerd), and... well... that's about it.</p><p>Meanwhile, simply talking about being 'in' with the 'nerd scene' shows you for what you really are.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The only bits of nerd I saw in your post were 'WoW ' ( negated by the fact that you do n't actually play ) , 'BioShock ' ( again , just buying the product does n't make you a nerd ) , and... well... that 's about it.Meanwhile , simply talking about being 'in ' with the 'nerd scene ' shows you for what you really are .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only bits of nerd I saw in your post were 'WoW' (negated by the fact that you don't actually play), 'BioShock' (again, just buying the product doesn't make you a nerd), and... well... that's about it.Meanwhile, simply talking about being 'in' with the 'nerd scene' shows you for what you really are.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528044</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527668</id>
	<title>I for one..</title>
	<author>buruonbrails</author>
	<datestamp>1261514640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>..welcome our new nerdy overlords. Like it or not, either the nerds or the machines will rule the world in the nearest future.</htmltext>
<tokenext>..welcome our new nerdy overlords .
Like it or not , either the nerds or the machines will rule the world in the nearest future .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>..welcome our new nerdy overlords.
Like it or not, either the nerds or the machines will rule the world in the nearest future.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532612</id>
	<title>Nerds as in</title>
	<author>mahadiga</author>
	<datestamp>1261503300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In a quite unusual development, <b>the government, the main trade unions, farmers and industrialists </b>came together and agreed
on a program of fiscal austerity, slashing corporate taxes to 12.5 percent, far below the rest of Europe, moderating wages and prices,
and aggressively courting foreign investment. In 1996, Ireland made college education basically free, creating an even more educated work force.
<br>
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/29/opinion/29friedman.html?\_r=1&amp;pagewanted=print" title="nytimes.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/29/opinion/29friedman.html?\_r=1&amp;pagewanted=print</a> [nytimes.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>In a quite unusual development , the government , the main trade unions , farmers and industrialists came together and agreed on a program of fiscal austerity , slashing corporate taxes to 12.5 percent , far below the rest of Europe , moderating wages and prices , and aggressively courting foreign investment .
In 1996 , Ireland made college education basically free , creating an even more educated work force .
http : //www.nytimes.com/2005/06/29/opinion/29friedman.html ? \ _r = 1&amp;pagewanted = print [ nytimes.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In a quite unusual development, the government, the main trade unions, farmers and industrialists came together and agreed
on a program of fiscal austerity, slashing corporate taxes to 12.5 percent, far below the rest of Europe, moderating wages and prices,
and aggressively courting foreign investment.
In 1996, Ireland made college education basically free, creating an even more educated work force.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/29/opinion/29friedman.html?\_r=1&amp;pagewanted=print [nytimes.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30530420</id>
	<title>Steve Lohr...</title>
	<author>brkello</author>
	<datestamp>1261482600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...obviously has no idea what he is talking about.  I got my Masters in C.S. about 8 years ago and I don't know anyone who was deterred to be in the field because they were afraid to be labeled a nerd even back then. <br> <br>Quite frankly, beyond high school, stupid things like that don't matter.  Enrollment in C.S. goes up and down in waves.<br> <br>And really, as an adult, being a nerd is a good thing.  I have a job and a house and can buy cool stuff.  A lot of people proudly self identify as nerds.<br> <br>And some schools, like Colorado State, are now offering hybrid degrees where you can minor in C.S. and something like Biology and make it count as a major.  So, really don't see where this guy is coming from.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...obviously has no idea what he is talking about .
I got my Masters in C.S .
about 8 years ago and I do n't know anyone who was deterred to be in the field because they were afraid to be labeled a nerd even back then .
Quite frankly , beyond high school , stupid things like that do n't matter .
Enrollment in C.S .
goes up and down in waves .
And really , as an adult , being a nerd is a good thing .
I have a job and a house and can buy cool stuff .
A lot of people proudly self identify as nerds .
And some schools , like Colorado State , are now offering hybrid degrees where you can minor in C.S .
and something like Biology and make it count as a major .
So , really do n't see where this guy is coming from .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...obviously has no idea what he is talking about.
I got my Masters in C.S.
about 8 years ago and I don't know anyone who was deterred to be in the field because they were afraid to be labeled a nerd even back then.
Quite frankly, beyond high school, stupid things like that don't matter.
Enrollment in C.S.
goes up and down in waves.
And really, as an adult, being a nerd is a good thing.
I have a job and a house and can buy cool stuff.
A lot of people proudly self identify as nerds.
And some schools, like Colorado State, are now offering hybrid degrees where you can minor in C.S.
and something like Biology and make it count as a major.
So, really don't see where this guy is coming from.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529294</id>
	<title>Re:We have enough but expect too much</title>
	<author>KharmaWidow</author>
	<datestamp>1261477500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is also a problem with what Americans expect to be paid. They want the same wages and benefits out of high school our parents took 30 years to achieve. American labor has a bloated sense of entitlement.  American's think they deserve free stuff. There is plenty of room between American wages and Chinese or Indian wages.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is also a problem with what Americans expect to be paid .
They want the same wages and benefits out of high school our parents took 30 years to achieve .
American labor has a bloated sense of entitlement .
American 's think they deserve free stuff .
There is plenty of room between American wages and Chinese or Indian wages .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is also a problem with what Americans expect to be paid.
They want the same wages and benefits out of high school our parents took 30 years to achieve.
American labor has a bloated sense of entitlement.
American's think they deserve free stuff.
There is plenty of room between American wages and Chinese or Indian wages.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527346</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529280</id>
	<title>Re:I've seen things swinging the other direction.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261477440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Clearly you do not live in Dayton, OH.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Clearly you do not live in Dayton , OH .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Clearly you do not live in Dayton, OH.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527508</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529318</id>
	<title>Your First Premise Is WRONG</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261477620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is NO U.S. economy.</p><p>The U.S. economy has imploded. The implosion will only be<br>accelerated by the Criminals-In-Congress who refuse to<br>implement universal health care to make U.S. companies<br>competitive.</p><p>Enjoy your  consumerism in the New World Order.</p><p>Yours In Yasnogorsk,<br>K. Trout</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is NO U.S. economy.The U.S. economy has imploded .
The implosion will only beaccelerated by the Criminals-In-Congress who refuse toimplement universal health care to make U.S. companiescompetitive.Enjoy your consumerism in the New World Order.Yours In Yasnogorsk,K .
Trout</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is NO U.S. economy.The U.S. economy has imploded.
The implosion will only beaccelerated by the Criminals-In-Congress who refuse toimplement universal health care to make U.S. companiescompetitive.Enjoy your  consumerism in the New World Order.Yours In Yasnogorsk,K.
Trout</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529798</id>
	<title>The economy needs less "wage arbitrage"</title>
	<author>gestalt\_n\_pepper</author>
	<datestamp>1261479780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There. Fixed that for you.</p><p>There's nothing cooler than money. When "cool geeks" in the USA no longer have to compete with "cool geeks" in India making $5/hr, you'll see many more "cool geeks" in the USA.</p><p>Believe anything else and you're either delusional or trying to sell something.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There .
Fixed that for you.There 's nothing cooler than money .
When " cool geeks " in the USA no longer have to compete with " cool geeks " in India making $ 5/hr , you 'll see many more " cool geeks " in the USA.Believe anything else and you 're either delusional or trying to sell something .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There.
Fixed that for you.There's nothing cooler than money.
When "cool geeks" in the USA no longer have to compete with "cool geeks" in India making $5/hr, you'll see many more "cool geeks" in the USA.Believe anything else and you're either delusional or trying to sell something.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527586</id>
	<title>Re:The Onus Should Not Be on the Nerds</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261514400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><blockquote><div><p>Computer science is far more practical/pragmatic (and really productive for society as a whole) and monetarily rewarding later in life than football.</p></div></blockquote><p>The mean annual incomes of professionals in the fields of computer science and football might call into question the "monetarily rewarding" part of that statement.</p></div><p>Make sure you factor in the 999/1000 students who invested in being good at football instead of academics and didn't make it. These are the guys who serve your food at McDonalds.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Computer science is far more practical/pragmatic ( and really productive for society as a whole ) and monetarily rewarding later in life than football.The mean annual incomes of professionals in the fields of computer science and football might call into question the " monetarily rewarding " part of that statement.Make sure you factor in the 999/1000 students who invested in being good at football instead of academics and did n't make it .
These are the guys who serve your food at McDonalds .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Computer science is far more practical/pragmatic (and really productive for society as a whole) and monetarily rewarding later in life than football.The mean annual incomes of professionals in the fields of computer science and football might call into question the "monetarily rewarding" part of that statement.Make sure you factor in the 999/1000 students who invested in being good at football instead of academics and didn't make it.
These are the guys who serve your food at McDonalds.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527398</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527502</id>
	<title>Re:The Onus Should Not Be on the Nerds</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261514160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Its not the media's fault.  If the consumer rejects what the media has to offer, then they will throw better table scraps.  There's something more fundamental to American values.  Anti-intellectualism.  The traditions emphasize science for competition rather than discovery.  In other words, if science can be fitted into the Football paradigm, we can go to the Moon because its Us vs. The Reds.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Its not the media 's fault .
If the consumer rejects what the media has to offer , then they will throw better table scraps .
There 's something more fundamental to American values .
Anti-intellectualism. The traditions emphasize science for competition rather than discovery .
In other words , if science can be fitted into the Football paradigm , we can go to the Moon because its Us vs. The Reds .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its not the media's fault.
If the consumer rejects what the media has to offer, then they will throw better table scraps.
There's something more fundamental to American values.
Anti-intellectualism.  The traditions emphasize science for competition rather than discovery.
In other words, if science can be fitted into the Football paradigm, we can go to the Moon because its Us vs. The Reds.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527448</id>
	<title>Of course not.</title>
	<author>prgrmr</author>
	<datestamp>1261513980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>'The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code. That is absolutely not the reality.'"</i>
<br> <br>
No. You'll be sitting in a cube, reading and posting to slashdot.</htmltext>
<tokenext>'The fear is that if you pursue computer science , you will be stuck in a basement , writing code .
That is absolutely not the reality .
' " No .
You 'll be sitting in a cube , reading and posting to slashdot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code.
That is absolutely not the reality.
'"
 
No.
You'll be sitting in a cube, reading and posting to slashdot.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527218</id>
	<title>It's Much Worse Than That</title>
	<author>hardburn</author>
	<datestamp>1261513260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>'The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code. That is absolutely not the reality.'"
</p></div><p>Instead, you'll be stuck in a cube farm doing TPS reports. Which is much, much worse than a basement. I've done the cube farm thing and they'd have to drag me back.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>'The fear is that if you pursue computer science , you will be stuck in a basement , writing code .
That is absolutely not the reality .
' " Instead , you 'll be stuck in a cube farm doing TPS reports .
Which is much , much worse than a basement .
I 've done the cube farm thing and they 'd have to drag me back .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code.
That is absolutely not the reality.
'"
Instead, you'll be stuck in a cube farm doing TPS reports.
Which is much, much worse than a basement.
I've done the cube farm thing and they'd have to drag me back.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527366</id>
	<title>Secretaries</title>
	<author>digitalhermit</author>
	<datestamp>1261513740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It wasn't *that* long ago that executives didn't type their own memos and letters. Ask one to use a typewriter or a word processor and they would have laughed or wouldn't know how to do it.</p><p>More and more computing skills are becoming basic skills. Maybe only the dinosaurs continue to use word processors and spreadsheets, but people still want wikis and PDFs. And by dinosaurs I don't mean the old schoolers, but those who still cling to the idea that in this age, the best way to disseminate knowledge is to print it on an 8" x 11", un-editable, fixed document stuck in a binder...</p><p>And that's part of the problem. In my day to day work I don't need a word processor or a spreadsheet except when a manager specifically asks for documentation in that format. So I gather my data and run it through a utility to convert it to a pretty Excel sheet, or convert it to a nicely formatted PDF, or make it into a web page.  We're teaching kids to use tools that don't work all that well for the media-rich environment we have today.</p><p>Teach them to write a Facebook app or use a content creation tool.. That will be more useful than learning how to print mail merged letters.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It was n't * that * long ago that executives did n't type their own memos and letters .
Ask one to use a typewriter or a word processor and they would have laughed or would n't know how to do it.More and more computing skills are becoming basic skills .
Maybe only the dinosaurs continue to use word processors and spreadsheets , but people still want wikis and PDFs .
And by dinosaurs I do n't mean the old schoolers , but those who still cling to the idea that in this age , the best way to disseminate knowledge is to print it on an 8 " x 11 " , un-editable , fixed document stuck in a binder...And that 's part of the problem .
In my day to day work I do n't need a word processor or a spreadsheet except when a manager specifically asks for documentation in that format .
So I gather my data and run it through a utility to convert it to a pretty Excel sheet , or convert it to a nicely formatted PDF , or make it into a web page .
We 're teaching kids to use tools that do n't work all that well for the media-rich environment we have today.Teach them to write a Facebook app or use a content creation tool.. That will be more useful than learning how to print mail merged letters .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It wasn't *that* long ago that executives didn't type their own memos and letters.
Ask one to use a typewriter or a word processor and they would have laughed or wouldn't know how to do it.More and more computing skills are becoming basic skills.
Maybe only the dinosaurs continue to use word processors and spreadsheets, but people still want wikis and PDFs.
And by dinosaurs I don't mean the old schoolers, but those who still cling to the idea that in this age, the best way to disseminate knowledge is to print it on an 8" x 11", un-editable, fixed document stuck in a binder...And that's part of the problem.
In my day to day work I don't need a word processor or a spreadsheet except when a manager specifically asks for documentation in that format.
So I gather my data and run it through a utility to convert it to a pretty Excel sheet, or convert it to a nicely formatted PDF, or make it into a web page.
We're teaching kids to use tools that don't work all that well for the media-rich environment we have today.Teach them to write a Facebook app or use a content creation tool.. That will be more useful than learning how to print mail merged letters.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529406</id>
	<title>Not gonna happen</title>
	<author>Pro923</author>
	<datestamp>1261478040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You can push kids towards math and science careers all you want - but it's not going to work when they realize that it's the mortgage brokers and recruiters that are the ones driving around the BMWs.

There are several problems:
1)  Math and science people tend to be terrible business people.  As such, they don't command the salaries that they deserve.  Some of us that tend to be a bit more business savy are ineffective because when we try to play hardball, we get pushed aside because the next idiot is more easily manipulated.

2)  People in other careers get supplimented on other ways.  What do I mean by that?  If I want a nice car, I pay for it with after tax dollars.  If I want a nice steak and some wine, I go out and pay for it with after tax dollars - if I want to join a country club and play golf - yea it's on my own bill.  My friends that work in sales don't really pay for any of these things - either their company absorbs the cost of their entertainment, or they have some way to write things off with tax laws.  Yeah - my salary is pretty good - but I have to foot the bill for all of my lifestyle expenses, it makes a big difference</htmltext>
<tokenext>You can push kids towards math and science careers all you want - but it 's not going to work when they realize that it 's the mortgage brokers and recruiters that are the ones driving around the BMWs .
There are several problems : 1 ) Math and science people tend to be terrible business people .
As such , they do n't command the salaries that they deserve .
Some of us that tend to be a bit more business savy are ineffective because when we try to play hardball , we get pushed aside because the next idiot is more easily manipulated .
2 ) People in other careers get supplimented on other ways .
What do I mean by that ?
If I want a nice car , I pay for it with after tax dollars .
If I want a nice steak and some wine , I go out and pay for it with after tax dollars - if I want to join a country club and play golf - yea it 's on my own bill .
My friends that work in sales do n't really pay for any of these things - either their company absorbs the cost of their entertainment , or they have some way to write things off with tax laws .
Yeah - my salary is pretty good - but I have to foot the bill for all of my lifestyle expenses , it makes a big difference</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can push kids towards math and science careers all you want - but it's not going to work when they realize that it's the mortgage brokers and recruiters that are the ones driving around the BMWs.
There are several problems:
1)  Math and science people tend to be terrible business people.
As such, they don't command the salaries that they deserve.
Some of us that tend to be a bit more business savy are ineffective because when we try to play hardball, we get pushed aside because the next idiot is more easily manipulated.
2)  People in other careers get supplimented on other ways.
What do I mean by that?
If I want a nice car, I pay for it with after tax dollars.
If I want a nice steak and some wine, I go out and pay for it with after tax dollars - if I want to join a country club and play golf - yea it's on my own bill.
My friends that work in sales don't really pay for any of these things - either their company absorbs the cost of their entertainment, or they have some way to write things off with tax laws.
Yeah - my salary is pretty good - but I have to foot the bill for all of my lifestyle expenses, it makes a big difference</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30533366</id>
	<title>Proud to be an Old Cool Nerd</title>
	<author>hydertech</author>
	<datestamp>1259786220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Many moons ago I was a kid who saw his first computer in college -- an IBM 360.  I went full tilt nerd.  By the time classes started I was working the hell desk at the computer center. I got there early and didn't leave till 3am. By the second year of undergrad study I was taking graduate classes in 360 assembly language and working on the Fortran compiler I/O routines for what we called mini computers (the size of a stand up fridge with "4096 twenty four bit words of core storage").  Shit we were using paper tape and punch cards.</p><p>I screwed off all my other classes. Hell, even my comp sci prof's were nuts, I got a 0.0 gpa in one class because the prof went nuts, tried to kill the head of the datacenter, and was locked in a white room unable to give grades.  At the end of semester 4 I had a gpa of 0.16/4.00 and was the lead programmer in a successful project to redo the university's accounting setup from Autocoder into COBOL.</p><p>Then I got the word....VIETNAM.  I had one summer term to get my grades up or go see exotic foreign lands. I say fuck football, the prospect of being shot will broaden your horizons.</p><p>Forty years later I'm looking at a 2:00 a.m. conclusion to upgrading 3 linux desktops.  I run a small linux based hosting company, but disappear every summer to run a 90' commercial fishing boat in Alaska for 4+ months.</p><p>The threat of being shot works best when it comes to producing "cool nerds".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Many moons ago I was a kid who saw his first computer in college -- an IBM 360 .
I went full tilt nerd .
By the time classes started I was working the hell desk at the computer center .
I got there early and did n't leave till 3am .
By the second year of undergrad study I was taking graduate classes in 360 assembly language and working on the Fortran compiler I/O routines for what we called mini computers ( the size of a stand up fridge with " 4096 twenty four bit words of core storage " ) .
Shit we were using paper tape and punch cards.I screwed off all my other classes .
Hell , even my comp sci prof 's were nuts , I got a 0.0 gpa in one class because the prof went nuts , tried to kill the head of the datacenter , and was locked in a white room unable to give grades .
At the end of semester 4 I had a gpa of 0.16/4.00 and was the lead programmer in a successful project to redo the university 's accounting setup from Autocoder into COBOL.Then I got the word....VIETNAM .
I had one summer term to get my grades up or go see exotic foreign lands .
I say fuck football , the prospect of being shot will broaden your horizons.Forty years later I 'm looking at a 2 : 00 a.m. conclusion to upgrading 3 linux desktops .
I run a small linux based hosting company , but disappear every summer to run a 90 ' commercial fishing boat in Alaska for 4 + months.The threat of being shot works best when it comes to producing " cool nerds " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many moons ago I was a kid who saw his first computer in college -- an IBM 360.
I went full tilt nerd.
By the time classes started I was working the hell desk at the computer center.
I got there early and didn't leave till 3am.
By the second year of undergrad study I was taking graduate classes in 360 assembly language and working on the Fortran compiler I/O routines for what we called mini computers (the size of a stand up fridge with "4096 twenty four bit words of core storage").
Shit we were using paper tape and punch cards.I screwed off all my other classes.
Hell, even my comp sci prof's were nuts, I got a 0.0 gpa in one class because the prof went nuts, tried to kill the head of the datacenter, and was locked in a white room unable to give grades.
At the end of semester 4 I had a gpa of 0.16/4.00 and was the lead programmer in a successful project to redo the university's accounting setup from Autocoder into COBOL.Then I got the word....VIETNAM.
I had one summer term to get my grades up or go see exotic foreign lands.
I say fuck football, the prospect of being shot will broaden your horizons.Forty years later I'm looking at a 2:00 a.m. conclusion to upgrading 3 linux desktops.
I run a small linux based hosting company, but disappear every summer to run a 90' commercial fishing boat in Alaska for 4+ months.The threat of being shot works best when it comes to producing "cool nerds".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30535288</id>
	<title>Re:The Onus Should Not Be on the Nerds</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259770020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, actually look at all the 6 footers in CEO positions.  The alpha male quality of avoiding challenges through intimidation is still king.</p><p>You bet that they are overpaid, crooked and uneducated.  Short, greedy stooges with an inferiority complex bought themselves alpha dog credibility and were eventually replaced by them.</p><p>Just say no to the football fans.  Never give them a break.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , actually look at all the 6 footers in CEO positions .
The alpha male quality of avoiding challenges through intimidation is still king.You bet that they are overpaid , crooked and uneducated .
Short , greedy stooges with an inferiority complex bought themselves alpha dog credibility and were eventually replaced by them.Just say no to the football fans .
Never give them a break .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, actually look at all the 6 footers in CEO positions.
The alpha male quality of avoiding challenges through intimidation is still king.You bet that they are overpaid, crooked and uneducated.
Short, greedy stooges with an inferiority complex bought themselves alpha dog credibility and were eventually replaced by them.Just say no to the football fans.
Never give them a break.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527586</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528168</id>
	<title>I used to encourage kids to go into programming...</title>
	<author>cts5678</author>
	<datestamp>1261473000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...until wages on most jobs dropped as low as what they pay a manager at McDonalds.

I quit doing it when industry figured out they could pay 1/10 the wages to entry-level off-shore programmers they used to pay on-shore programmers.

The US has shot itself in the tech feet and there's nothing that can be done as long as nothing more is considered besides cost.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...until wages on most jobs dropped as low as what they pay a manager at McDonalds .
I quit doing it when industry figured out they could pay 1/10 the wages to entry-level off-shore programmers they used to pay on-shore programmers .
The US has shot itself in the tech feet and there 's nothing that can be done as long as nothing more is considered besides cost .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...until wages on most jobs dropped as low as what they pay a manager at McDonalds.
I quit doing it when industry figured out they could pay 1/10 the wages to entry-level off-shore programmers they used to pay on-shore programmers.
The US has shot itself in the tech feet and there's nothing that can be done as long as nothing more is considered besides cost.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528752</id>
	<title>Re:We have enough.</title>
	<author>nine-times</author>
	<datestamp>1261475580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The problem is that businesses don't want to pay highly-trained and specialized workers more</p></div><p>Well more generally, businesses don't want to have to pay a decent wage for any worker.  You think it's bad that programmers aren't getting paid six figures, but go to a lower rung on the ladder, and you'll find that a lot of people don't make a wage what most of us would consider "a livable wage".  Like forget about the new car or big screen TV, and forget about sending your kids to a decent school or paying for college.  Some of those people are just hoping to be able to both pay rent and buy groceries this month.
</p><p>Don't get me wrong.  I'm not saying you're spoiled.  I'm not saying you should quit complaining.  I suppose I'm just suggesting that you think of your company's janitor or loading dock worker and think about the kind of treatment they get and what their compensation is.  It's worth remembering: your company would most likely treat you the exact same way if they could get away with it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is that businesses do n't want to pay highly-trained and specialized workers moreWell more generally , businesses do n't want to have to pay a decent wage for any worker .
You think it 's bad that programmers are n't getting paid six figures , but go to a lower rung on the ladder , and you 'll find that a lot of people do n't make a wage what most of us would consider " a livable wage " .
Like forget about the new car or big screen TV , and forget about sending your kids to a decent school or paying for college .
Some of those people are just hoping to be able to both pay rent and buy groceries this month .
Do n't get me wrong .
I 'm not saying you 're spoiled .
I 'm not saying you should quit complaining .
I suppose I 'm just suggesting that you think of your company 's janitor or loading dock worker and think about the kind of treatment they get and what their compensation is .
It 's worth remembering : your company would most likely treat you the exact same way if they could get away with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is that businesses don't want to pay highly-trained and specialized workers moreWell more generally, businesses don't want to have to pay a decent wage for any worker.
You think it's bad that programmers aren't getting paid six figures, but go to a lower rung on the ladder, and you'll find that a lot of people don't make a wage what most of us would consider "a livable wage".
Like forget about the new car or big screen TV, and forget about sending your kids to a decent school or paying for college.
Some of those people are just hoping to be able to both pay rent and buy groceries this month.
Don't get me wrong.
I'm not saying you're spoiled.
I'm not saying you should quit complaining.
I suppose I'm just suggesting that you think of your company's janitor or loading dock worker and think about the kind of treatment they get and what their compensation is.
It's worth remembering: your company would most likely treat you the exact same way if they could get away with it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527346</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527774</id>
	<title>Computer Science is just a problem-solving tool</title>
	<author>jmac880n</author>
	<datestamp>1261514940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...  just like Mathematics.</p><p>It means <b>nothing</b> by itself, except as a means to an end of solving practical problems.</p><p>That said, it makes all the sense in the world for most Computer Scientists to learn other domains of knowledge to apply to.</p><p>The more disciplines you are familiar with, the more adept you will be at applying your programming skills to solving real-world problems.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... just like Mathematics.It means nothing by itself , except as a means to an end of solving practical problems.That said , it makes all the sense in the world for most Computer Scientists to learn other domains of knowledge to apply to.The more disciplines you are familiar with , the more adept you will be at applying your programming skills to solving real-world problems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...  just like Mathematics.It means nothing by itself, except as a means to an end of solving practical problems.That said, it makes all the sense in the world for most Computer Scientists to learn other domains of knowledge to apply to.The more disciplines you are familiar with, the more adept you will be at applying your programming skills to solving real-world problems.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527760</id>
	<title>Too right.</title>
	<author>lattyware</author>
	<datestamp>1261514880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In the UK, I was told not to bother with computing related courses, instead doing Maths and Further Maths. ICT is a course on being a receptionist. Nothing more.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the UK , I was told not to bother with computing related courses , instead doing Maths and Further Maths .
ICT is a course on being a receptionist .
Nothing more .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the UK, I was told not to bother with computing related courses, instead doing Maths and Further Maths.
ICT is a course on being a receptionist.
Nothing more.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527468</id>
	<title>That's me!</title>
	<author>Jorgandar</author>
	<datestamp>1261514040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Happy to see somewhere out there someone believes in the cool nerds.  (i'm also the gay one, and at work that means i'm triple times fabulous<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;).  I no longer work in IT but i work in regulatory compliance.  Where do i find still my undergrad degree in computing sciences useful?  EVERYWHERE and EVERY DAY!!!  I believe the biggest mistake of this century is for businesses to isolate their "tech" employees to an IT department.  This structure ensures that all computing knowledge is isolated from the rest of the business that could use it to increase productivity!  I've written countless scripts, reports and other programs to perform simple otherwise labrous tasks and free business workers to focus on important things.  People think i'm some sort of miracle worker.  The reality is that i'm simply an anomaly at the firm - a person with a computing background who works in the business side.  There needs to be more of us - many more!!  When i'm CEO - there will be people with computer science backgrounds positioned everywhere in the company.  They are the key to connecting the business with technology needs and making business far more efficient.  An "IT" department, no matter how good, isn't as good as mixing knowledge of technology in the business side directly.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Happy to see somewhere out there someone believes in the cool nerds .
( i 'm also the gay one , and at work that means i 'm triple times fabulous ; ) .
I no longer work in IT but i work in regulatory compliance .
Where do i find still my undergrad degree in computing sciences useful ?
EVERYWHERE and EVERY DAY ! ! !
I believe the biggest mistake of this century is for businesses to isolate their " tech " employees to an IT department .
This structure ensures that all computing knowledge is isolated from the rest of the business that could use it to increase productivity !
I 've written countless scripts , reports and other programs to perform simple otherwise labrous tasks and free business workers to focus on important things .
People think i 'm some sort of miracle worker .
The reality is that i 'm simply an anomaly at the firm - a person with a computing background who works in the business side .
There needs to be more of us - many more ! !
When i 'm CEO - there will be people with computer science backgrounds positioned everywhere in the company .
They are the key to connecting the business with technology needs and making business far more efficient .
An " IT " department , no matter how good , is n't as good as mixing knowledge of technology in the business side directly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Happy to see somewhere out there someone believes in the cool nerds.
(i'm also the gay one, and at work that means i'm triple times fabulous ;).
I no longer work in IT but i work in regulatory compliance.
Where do i find still my undergrad degree in computing sciences useful?
EVERYWHERE and EVERY DAY!!!
I believe the biggest mistake of this century is for businesses to isolate their "tech" employees to an IT department.
This structure ensures that all computing knowledge is isolated from the rest of the business that could use it to increase productivity!
I've written countless scripts, reports and other programs to perform simple otherwise labrous tasks and free business workers to focus on important things.
People think i'm some sort of miracle worker.
The reality is that i'm simply an anomaly at the firm - a person with a computing background who works in the business side.
There needs to be more of us - many more!!
When i'm CEO - there will be people with computer science backgrounds positioned everywhere in the company.
They are the key to connecting the business with technology needs and making business far more efficient.
An "IT" department, no matter how good, isn't as good as mixing knowledge of technology in the business side directly.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527728</id>
	<title>Re:Fear of Being Stereotyped? Really?</title>
	<author>DragonWriter</author>
	<datestamp>1261514760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I think a lot of young people just don't find it interesting. I think a lot of older people feel the same way. People tend to do what they're passionate about, and passionate people tend to think less of the opinions of others and more about what they want to do. Do we really need to press this field on more people?</p></div></blockquote><p>A lot of young people don't find reading, writing, or basic mathematics -- or general science, civics or economics -- interesting either, and we press those on people as educational requirements. Given that computing is a fairly fundamental tool of modern society in every field, a certain baseline understanding of the basic principles involved may be quite reasonable to expect as a core educational requirement.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think a lot of young people just do n't find it interesting .
I think a lot of older people feel the same way .
People tend to do what they 're passionate about , and passionate people tend to think less of the opinions of others and more about what they want to do .
Do we really need to press this field on more people ? A lot of young people do n't find reading , writing , or basic mathematics -- or general science , civics or economics -- interesting either , and we press those on people as educational requirements .
Given that computing is a fairly fundamental tool of modern society in every field , a certain baseline understanding of the basic principles involved may be quite reasonable to expect as a core educational requirement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think a lot of young people just don't find it interesting.
I think a lot of older people feel the same way.
People tend to do what they're passionate about, and passionate people tend to think less of the opinions of others and more about what they want to do.
Do we really need to press this field on more people?A lot of young people don't find reading, writing, or basic mathematics -- or general science, civics or economics -- interesting either, and we press those on people as educational requirements.
Given that computing is a fairly fundamental tool of modern society in every field, a certain baseline understanding of the basic principles involved may be quite reasonable to expect as a core educational requirement.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528762</id>
	<title>Re:The Onus Should Not Be on the Nerds</title>
	<author>Rinikusu</author>
	<datestamp>1261475580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are plenty of guys on the football team that I knew who also did well in math, physics, english, etc.  We called them "student athletes" and some were quite good at doing both.  To say that people excelled at sports at the expense of other activities/knowledge opportunities is somewhat disingenuous and almost reeks of geek elitism.</p><p>However, you are correct in identifying the pedestal that we seem to place our sports heroes on.  Ace your SAT/ACTs in high school?  So what.  Catching the winning touchdown, scoring the last second basket to win the game?  Perceived Immortality and admiration from peers and the "hottest" girls in school.  In reality, you end up like the uncle in Napoleon Dynamite, stuck in a cubicle somewhere trying to relive your glory days.</p><p>I don't think nerdom is necessarily at the expense of outside activities, it just ends up being easier to do so.  Bullies (invariably linked to the jock class, although the worst bullies I had were 1) preppy rich kids 2) kids who wanted to be preppy rich kids so they imitated their idols and 3) just ignorant thugs) are not to be worried about in the confines of home and it's easiest to just stay home and lose yourself in computing.  Before computers, I suppose we had the same kind of folks who lost themselves in books, or art?</p><p>But, how exactly does one cheer/support a kid who's not into "easy to metric" things?  For example, in football, you can objectively identify strengths and weaknesses and work to support your athlete in over-coming deficiencies.  But what if your kid is a nerd?  My dad had no idea what I was doing on my commodore 64 all those years ago, and truth be told, neither did I.  I was fucking around on the computer, finally discovered BBSs, PBX codes, 800-scanning, etc on my own.  I mean, what can a parent do?  "Did you scan your 800 block today?"  I suppose there's a disconnect between technologically savvy students and their children, and thus seem to get lost in the shuffle.</p><p>As for educational priorities, I can see how it works:  The best and brightest (the nerds.. and not all nerds are computer nerds.  I was a biology/computer nerd) find their passions and go to town.  The rest?  The guy that lived and breathed football but couldn't make it to the next level?  What's he to do?  Car salesman?  Middle Management (sometimes upper management)?  A lot of them end up as football coaches.  Since no high-school that I can think of has full-time coaches (as in, that's all they do.. I could be wrong... Texas and Florida take their football seriously, I've heard), they also have to teach a few classes.  Math, Civics, Sociology, Spanish, or whatever "fluff course" they can throw them into.  These guys end up becoming very cliquish.  A coach clique.  They want the best for their athletes and the principal, who may  have also been an athlete, allocates funds to buy new uniforms and pads for the team and the biology class doesn't get scalpels to cut up cats.  (true story in my case).</p><p>Personally, I view sports as kind of an anathema to education.  School should be a place to learn how to learn, not just throw a ball around.  Granted, through sports many kids get a chance at college scholarships that might otherwise not be available to them.  Remember, for many colleges, sports programs are profitable to run and alumni donations can be tracked over time based on how well the team performs.  I'm not sure I'm happy with that, but it's their money, right?</p><p>Anyway, in my perfect world, kids go to school to learn how to learn.  Sports should be an encouraged activity, but the emphasis should always be on education, not sports.  Now, could there be a sports education curriculum?  Sure!  Applying math/statistics is one way to do it.  Imagine biological systems studies for the swim team or even track and field for learning how to apply physics (water &amp; air dynamics) to those sports, and computer nerds could develop software for modeling/analyzing data (might be over their heads, but I think with sufficient motivation they could do it).  If somehow, the nerds could be brought into the fold as PARTICIPANTS and rewarded as such, then perhaps the mentality will change.</p><p>Hrm, I'm wandering off point.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are plenty of guys on the football team that I knew who also did well in math , physics , english , etc .
We called them " student athletes " and some were quite good at doing both .
To say that people excelled at sports at the expense of other activities/knowledge opportunities is somewhat disingenuous and almost reeks of geek elitism.However , you are correct in identifying the pedestal that we seem to place our sports heroes on .
Ace your SAT/ACTs in high school ?
So what .
Catching the winning touchdown , scoring the last second basket to win the game ?
Perceived Immortality and admiration from peers and the " hottest " girls in school .
In reality , you end up like the uncle in Napoleon Dynamite , stuck in a cubicle somewhere trying to relive your glory days.I do n't think nerdom is necessarily at the expense of outside activities , it just ends up being easier to do so .
Bullies ( invariably linked to the jock class , although the worst bullies I had were 1 ) preppy rich kids 2 ) kids who wanted to be preppy rich kids so they imitated their idols and 3 ) just ignorant thugs ) are not to be worried about in the confines of home and it 's easiest to just stay home and lose yourself in computing .
Before computers , I suppose we had the same kind of folks who lost themselves in books , or art ? But , how exactly does one cheer/support a kid who 's not into " easy to metric " things ?
For example , in football , you can objectively identify strengths and weaknesses and work to support your athlete in over-coming deficiencies .
But what if your kid is a nerd ?
My dad had no idea what I was doing on my commodore 64 all those years ago , and truth be told , neither did I. I was fucking around on the computer , finally discovered BBSs , PBX codes , 800-scanning , etc on my own .
I mean , what can a parent do ?
" Did you scan your 800 block today ?
" I suppose there 's a disconnect between technologically savvy students and their children , and thus seem to get lost in the shuffle.As for educational priorities , I can see how it works : The best and brightest ( the nerds.. and not all nerds are computer nerds .
I was a biology/computer nerd ) find their passions and go to town .
The rest ?
The guy that lived and breathed football but could n't make it to the next level ?
What 's he to do ?
Car salesman ?
Middle Management ( sometimes upper management ) ?
A lot of them end up as football coaches .
Since no high-school that I can think of has full-time coaches ( as in , that 's all they do.. I could be wrong... Texas and Florida take their football seriously , I 've heard ) , they also have to teach a few classes .
Math , Civics , Sociology , Spanish , or whatever " fluff course " they can throw them into .
These guys end up becoming very cliquish .
A coach clique .
They want the best for their athletes and the principal , who may have also been an athlete , allocates funds to buy new uniforms and pads for the team and the biology class does n't get scalpels to cut up cats .
( true story in my case ) .Personally , I view sports as kind of an anathema to education .
School should be a place to learn how to learn , not just throw a ball around .
Granted , through sports many kids get a chance at college scholarships that might otherwise not be available to them .
Remember , for many colleges , sports programs are profitable to run and alumni donations can be tracked over time based on how well the team performs .
I 'm not sure I 'm happy with that , but it 's their money , right ? Anyway , in my perfect world , kids go to school to learn how to learn .
Sports should be an encouraged activity , but the emphasis should always be on education , not sports .
Now , could there be a sports education curriculum ?
Sure ! Applying math/statistics is one way to do it .
Imagine biological systems studies for the swim team or even track and field for learning how to apply physics ( water &amp; air dynamics ) to those sports , and computer nerds could develop software for modeling/analyzing data ( might be over their heads , but I think with sufficient motivation they could do it ) .
If somehow , the nerds could be brought into the fold as PARTICIPANTS and rewarded as such , then perhaps the mentality will change.Hrm , I 'm wandering off point .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are plenty of guys on the football team that I knew who also did well in math, physics, english, etc.
We called them "student athletes" and some were quite good at doing both.
To say that people excelled at sports at the expense of other activities/knowledge opportunities is somewhat disingenuous and almost reeks of geek elitism.However, you are correct in identifying the pedestal that we seem to place our sports heroes on.
Ace your SAT/ACTs in high school?
So what.
Catching the winning touchdown, scoring the last second basket to win the game?
Perceived Immortality and admiration from peers and the "hottest" girls in school.
In reality, you end up like the uncle in Napoleon Dynamite, stuck in a cubicle somewhere trying to relive your glory days.I don't think nerdom is necessarily at the expense of outside activities, it just ends up being easier to do so.
Bullies (invariably linked to the jock class, although the worst bullies I had were 1) preppy rich kids 2) kids who wanted to be preppy rich kids so they imitated their idols and 3) just ignorant thugs) are not to be worried about in the confines of home and it's easiest to just stay home and lose yourself in computing.
Before computers, I suppose we had the same kind of folks who lost themselves in books, or art?But, how exactly does one cheer/support a kid who's not into "easy to metric" things?
For example, in football, you can objectively identify strengths and weaknesses and work to support your athlete in over-coming deficiencies.
But what if your kid is a nerd?
My dad had no idea what I was doing on my commodore 64 all those years ago, and truth be told, neither did I.  I was fucking around on the computer, finally discovered BBSs, PBX codes, 800-scanning, etc on my own.
I mean, what can a parent do?
"Did you scan your 800 block today?
"  I suppose there's a disconnect between technologically savvy students and their children, and thus seem to get lost in the shuffle.As for educational priorities, I can see how it works:  The best and brightest (the nerds.. and not all nerds are computer nerds.
I was a biology/computer nerd) find their passions and go to town.
The rest?
The guy that lived and breathed football but couldn't make it to the next level?
What's he to do?
Car salesman?
Middle Management (sometimes upper management)?
A lot of them end up as football coaches.
Since no high-school that I can think of has full-time coaches (as in, that's all they do.. I could be wrong... Texas and Florida take their football seriously, I've heard), they also have to teach a few classes.
Math, Civics, Sociology, Spanish, or whatever "fluff course" they can throw them into.
These guys end up becoming very cliquish.
A coach clique.
They want the best for their athletes and the principal, who may  have also been an athlete, allocates funds to buy new uniforms and pads for the team and the biology class doesn't get scalpels to cut up cats.
(true story in my case).Personally, I view sports as kind of an anathema to education.
School should be a place to learn how to learn, not just throw a ball around.
Granted, through sports many kids get a chance at college scholarships that might otherwise not be available to them.
Remember, for many colleges, sports programs are profitable to run and alumni donations can be tracked over time based on how well the team performs.
I'm not sure I'm happy with that, but it's their money, right?Anyway, in my perfect world, kids go to school to learn how to learn.
Sports should be an encouraged activity, but the emphasis should always be on education, not sports.
Now, could there be a sports education curriculum?
Sure!  Applying math/statistics is one way to do it.
Imagine biological systems studies for the swim team or even track and field for learning how to apply physics (water &amp; air dynamics) to those sports, and computer nerds could develop software for modeling/analyzing data (might be over their heads, but I think with sufficient motivation they could do it).
If somehow, the nerds could be brought into the fold as PARTICIPANTS and rewarded as such, then perhaps the mentality will change.Hrm, I'm wandering off point.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532598</id>
	<title>Re:I've seen things swinging the other direction.</title>
	<author>dangitman</author>
	<datestamp>1261503120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Nerd chic was barely getting started in the dot-com era, it was still fringe. Today it has reached mainstream status, and is the popular thing for 16-25 year olds.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Nerd chic was barely getting started in the dot-com era , it was still fringe .
Today it has reached mainstream status , and is the popular thing for 16-25 year olds .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nerd chic was barely getting started in the dot-com era, it was still fringe.
Today it has reached mainstream status, and is the popular thing for 16-25 year olds.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528438</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528868</id>
	<title>Re:He's absolutely correct</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261475880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><blockquote><div><p>'The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code. That is absolutely not the reality.'</p></div></blockquote><p>Quite right! It's a cubicle.</p></div><p>Since I am working from home now and my office is in the basement...</p><p>I ended up stuck in a basement, writing code!!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>'The fear is that if you pursue computer science , you will be stuck in a basement , writing code .
That is absolutely not the reality .
'Quite right !
It 's a cubicle.Since I am working from home now and my office is in the basement...I ended up stuck in a basement , writing code !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code.
That is absolutely not the reality.
'Quite right!
It's a cubicle.Since I am working from home now and my office is in the basement...I ended up stuck in a basement, writing code!
!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527242</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532926</id>
	<title>Re:The Onus Should Not Be on the Nerds</title>
	<author>TerranFury</author>
	<datestamp>1261508220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>How many songs are about music and dance? Too many.</p></div><p>That's kind of an absurd complaint, isn't it?  Isn't this at least half the point of a song?</p><p>Now if you'd said, "about getting laid," maybe I'd have have been with you...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How many songs are about music and dance ?
Too many.That 's kind of an absurd complaint , is n't it ?
Is n't this at least half the point of a song ? Now if you 'd said , " about getting laid , " maybe I 'd have have been with you.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How many songs are about music and dance?
Too many.That's kind of an absurd complaint, isn't it?
Isn't this at least half the point of a song?Now if you'd said, "about getting laid," maybe I'd have have been with you...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527404</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532912</id>
	<title>Re:Horrible Idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261507980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>CompSci and MIS programs churning chumps who can't code for shit themselves out of a wet paper bag.</i><nobr> <wbr></nobr>..never mind their writing abilities...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>CompSci and MIS programs churning chumps who ca n't code for shit themselves out of a wet paper bag .
..never mind their writing abilities.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>CompSci and MIS programs churning chumps who can't code for shit themselves out of a wet paper bag.
..never mind their writing abilities...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529124</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528548</id>
	<title>Re:That's me!</title>
	<author>nine-times</author>
	<datestamp>1261474560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Where do i find still my undergrad degree in computing sciences useful? EVERYWHERE and EVERY DAY!!!</p></div><p>On the other side of things, I was a philosophy major, and I find that stuff useful all the time in my IT work.  Specialization is good, but you also need a certain level of cross-polinization.  Too great a degree of specialization can make you myopic.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Where do i find still my undergrad degree in computing sciences useful ?
EVERYWHERE and EVERY DAY ! !
! On the other side of things , I was a philosophy major , and I find that stuff useful all the time in my IT work .
Specialization is good , but you also need a certain level of cross-polinization .
Too great a degree of specialization can make you myopic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Where do i find still my undergrad degree in computing sciences useful?
EVERYWHERE and EVERY DAY!!
!On the other side of things, I was a philosophy major, and I find that stuff useful all the time in my IT work.
Specialization is good, but you also need a certain level of cross-polinization.
Too great a degree of specialization can make you myopic.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527468</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30530882</id>
	<title>We need more unschooling for kids to develop well</title>
	<author>Paul Fernhout</author>
	<datestamp>1261485360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.unschooling.com/" title="unschooling.com">http://www.unschooling.com/</a> [unschooling.com]</p><p>Lots of links on how and why schooling has failed:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; <a href="http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch\_listcultures.org/2009-October/005379.html" title="listcultures.org">http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch\_listcultures.org/2009-October/005379.html</a> [listcultures.org]<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; <a href="http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch\_listcultures.org/2009-November/005584.html" title="listcultures.org">http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch\_listcultures.org/2009-November/005584.html</a> [listcultures.org]</p><p>More:<br><a href="http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch\_listcultures.org/2009-November/006005.html" title="listcultures.org">http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch\_listcultures.org/2009-November/006005.html</a> [listcultures.org]</p><p>An easy fix:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; <a href="http://www.pdfernhout.net/towards-a-post-scarcity-new-york-state-of-mind.html" title="pdfernhout.net">http://www.pdfernhout.net/towards-a-post-scarcity-new-york-state-of-mind.html</a> [pdfernhout.net]<br>"New York State current spends roughly 20,000 US dollars per schooled child per year to support the public school system. This essay suggests that the same amount of money be given directly to the family of each homeschooled child. Further, it suggests that eventually all parents would get this amount, as more and more families decide to homeschool because it is suddenly easier financially. It suggests why ultimately this will be a win/win situation for everyone involved (including parents, children, teachers, school staff, other people in the community, and even school administrators<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-) because ultimately local schools will grow into larger vibrant community learning centers open to anyone in the community and looking more like college campuses. New York State could try this plan incrementally in a few different school districts across the state as pilot programs to see how it works out. This may seem like an unlikely idea to be adopted at first, but at least it is a starting point for building a positive vision of the future for all children in all our communities. Like straightforward ideas such as Medicare-for-all, this is an easy solution to state, likely with broad popular support, but it may be a hard thing to get done politically for all sorts of reasons"<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.unschooling.com/ [ unschooling.com ] Lots of links on how and why schooling has failed :     http : //listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch \ _listcultures.org/2009-October/005379.html [ listcultures.org ]     http : //listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch \ _listcultures.org/2009-November/005584.html [ listcultures.org ] More : http : //listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch \ _listcultures.org/2009-November/006005.html [ listcultures.org ] An easy fix :     http : //www.pdfernhout.net/towards-a-post-scarcity-new-york-state-of-mind.html [ pdfernhout.net ] " New York State current spends roughly 20,000 US dollars per schooled child per year to support the public school system .
This essay suggests that the same amount of money be given directly to the family of each homeschooled child .
Further , it suggests that eventually all parents would get this amount , as more and more families decide to homeschool because it is suddenly easier financially .
It suggests why ultimately this will be a win/win situation for everyone involved ( including parents , children , teachers , school staff , other people in the community , and even school administrators : - ) because ultimately local schools will grow into larger vibrant community learning centers open to anyone in the community and looking more like college campuses .
New York State could try this plan incrementally in a few different school districts across the state as pilot programs to see how it works out .
This may seem like an unlikely idea to be adopted at first , but at least it is a starting point for building a positive vision of the future for all children in all our communities .
Like straightforward ideas such as Medicare-for-all , this is an easy solution to state , likely with broad popular support , but it may be a hard thing to get done politically for all sorts of reasons "    </tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.unschooling.com/ [unschooling.com]Lots of links on how and why schooling has failed:
    http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch\_listcultures.org/2009-October/005379.html [listcultures.org]
    http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch\_listcultures.org/2009-November/005584.html [listcultures.org]More:http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch\_listcultures.org/2009-November/006005.html [listcultures.org]An easy fix:
    http://www.pdfernhout.net/towards-a-post-scarcity-new-york-state-of-mind.html [pdfernhout.net]"New York State current spends roughly 20,000 US dollars per schooled child per year to support the public school system.
This essay suggests that the same amount of money be given directly to the family of each homeschooled child.
Further, it suggests that eventually all parents would get this amount, as more and more families decide to homeschool because it is suddenly easier financially.
It suggests why ultimately this will be a win/win situation for everyone involved (including parents, children, teachers, school staff, other people in the community, and even school administrators :-) because ultimately local schools will grow into larger vibrant community learning centers open to anyone in the community and looking more like college campuses.
New York State could try this plan incrementally in a few different school districts across the state as pilot programs to see how it works out.
This may seem like an unlikely idea to be adopted at first, but at least it is a starting point for building a positive vision of the future for all children in all our communities.
Like straightforward ideas such as Medicare-for-all, this is an easy solution to state, likely with broad popular support, but it may be a hard thing to get done politically for all sorts of reasons"
   </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527830</id>
	<title>ProgramS?</title>
	<author>DrugCheese</author>
	<datestamp>1261515120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Today, introductory courses in computer science are too often focused merely on teaching students to use software like word processing and spreadsheet programs</p></div><p>Singular, not plural.</p><p>Today, introductory courses in computer science are too often focused merely on teaching students to use Microsoft Word processing and Microsoft Excel spreadsheet program.</p><p>I went to a crappy private catholic high school 16 years ago but, luckily, our first course was in GW Basic. My girl just took a Computer Science class at the local community college and all she went through was Word, Excel, Access. It made me kind of mad, cause all she really learned was where to find all the menus in the new version of office.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Today , introductory courses in computer science are too often focused merely on teaching students to use software like word processing and spreadsheet programsSingular , not plural.Today , introductory courses in computer science are too often focused merely on teaching students to use Microsoft Word processing and Microsoft Excel spreadsheet program.I went to a crappy private catholic high school 16 years ago but , luckily , our first course was in GW Basic .
My girl just took a Computer Science class at the local community college and all she went through was Word , Excel , Access .
It made me kind of mad , cause all she really learned was where to find all the menus in the new version of office .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Today, introductory courses in computer science are too often focused merely on teaching students to use software like word processing and spreadsheet programsSingular, not plural.Today, introductory courses in computer science are too often focused merely on teaching students to use Microsoft Word processing and Microsoft Excel spreadsheet program.I went to a crappy private catholic high school 16 years ago but, luckily, our first course was in GW Basic.
My girl just took a Computer Science class at the local community college and all she went through was Word, Excel, Access.
It made me kind of mad, cause all she really learned was where to find all the menus in the new version of office.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30535944</id>
	<title>You Say That As If It Were A Bad Thing</title>
	<author>Toad-san</author>
	<datestamp>1259774160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"'The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code. That is absolutely not the reality.'"</p><p>But<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... but<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... but I WANT to be stuck in a basement, writing code!</p><p>[sob]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" 'The fear is that if you pursue computer science , you will be stuck in a basement , writing code .
That is absolutely not the reality .
' " But ... but ... but I WANT to be stuck in a basement , writing code !
[ sob ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"'The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code.
That is absolutely not the reality.
'"But ... but ... but I WANT to be stuck in a basement, writing code!
[sob]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527554</id>
	<title>What jobs???</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261514340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh yeah, get a good education for what?<br>No jobs for US Citizens.<br>If you can get one, get ready for minimum wages and 80 hours a week with unpaid overtime.<br>No thanks!!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh yeah , get a good education for what ? No jobs for US Citizens.If you can get one , get ready for minimum wages and 80 hours a week with unpaid overtime.No thanks ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh yeah, get a good education for what?No jobs for US Citizens.If you can get one, get ready for minimum wages and 80 hours a week with unpaid overtime.No thanks!!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529956</id>
	<title>This makes no sense.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261480500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This seems a little self serving to people with a computer science background. Why not just proclaim that perhaps computer science is a nerdy and math oriented field as it truly is and instead work in modern tools into the courses in journalism and art etc.. with the computer training as part of the course. I don't understand why you would want to make a computer science course into a journalism course, they are not related. They should really be stating that they are outdated in teaching arts courses because they do not have the proper modern technology in it. Of course they may lead to a need for younger more knowledgeable teachers in those areas.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This seems a little self serving to people with a computer science background .
Why not just proclaim that perhaps computer science is a nerdy and math oriented field as it truly is and instead work in modern tools into the courses in journalism and art etc.. with the computer training as part of the course .
I do n't understand why you would want to make a computer science course into a journalism course , they are not related .
They should really be stating that they are outdated in teaching arts courses because they do not have the proper modern technology in it .
Of course they may lead to a need for younger more knowledgeable teachers in those areas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This seems a little self serving to people with a computer science background.
Why not just proclaim that perhaps computer science is a nerdy and math oriented field as it truly is and instead work in modern tools into the courses in journalism and art etc.. with the computer training as part of the course.
I don't understand why you would want to make a computer science course into a journalism course, they are not related.
They should really be stating that they are outdated in teaching arts courses because they do not have the proper modern technology in it.
Of course they may lead to a need for younger more knowledgeable teachers in those areas.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30531294</id>
	<title>Re:That's me!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261488240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ian, is that you?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ian , is that you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ian, is that you?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527468</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527840</id>
	<title>It's not even about the "field"</title>
	<author>IANAAC</author>
	<datestamp>1261515120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't think any chosen field has a lot to do with anything, tech-wise.
<p>
As we let more of our daily tasks (and even specialized tasks) be done with computers, people end up learning bits and pieces of software programs, sometimes becoming "experts" with whatever program is used.
</p><p>
As much as people would like to view all computer-related work as just using an appliance, we're jut not there and I don't believe we'll ever be there.
</p><p>
The biotech profession - particularly drug discovery - comes to mind, but there are many other professions that depend on sophisticated programs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think any chosen field has a lot to do with anything , tech-wise .
As we let more of our daily tasks ( and even specialized tasks ) be done with computers , people end up learning bits and pieces of software programs , sometimes becoming " experts " with whatever program is used .
As much as people would like to view all computer-related work as just using an appliance , we 're jut not there and I do n't believe we 'll ever be there .
The biotech profession - particularly drug discovery - comes to mind , but there are many other professions that depend on sophisticated programs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think any chosen field has a lot to do with anything, tech-wise.
As we let more of our daily tasks (and even specialized tasks) be done with computers, people end up learning bits and pieces of software programs, sometimes becoming "experts" with whatever program is used.
As much as people would like to view all computer-related work as just using an appliance, we're jut not there and I don't believe we'll ever be there.
The biotech profession - particularly drug discovery - comes to mind, but there are many other professions that depend on sophisticated programs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528020</id>
	<title>It is a much more general problem</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261472520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We live in a "rock star" economy: Few make it big and the rest are hardly differentiated at all. There are many who are exactly as good as the few who land highly paid positions, and the only reason why they aren't up there comes down to chance. This is the reason why parents tell their kids not to become musicians or any other kind of artist and the rest of the economy is becoming more and more like the arts. We tell people to aspire to be the best and totally let down almost all of them for absolutely insignificant reasons. How can we expect young people to work their asses off when it will only make a difference for so few of them that playing the lottery looks like a better proposition? It's no wonder at all that young people look for the easy jobs with average pay. To ask for "cool nerds with hybrid careers" is a slap in the face of those who already excel and are not getting rewarded.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We live in a " rock star " economy : Few make it big and the rest are hardly differentiated at all .
There are many who are exactly as good as the few who land highly paid positions , and the only reason why they are n't up there comes down to chance .
This is the reason why parents tell their kids not to become musicians or any other kind of artist and the rest of the economy is becoming more and more like the arts .
We tell people to aspire to be the best and totally let down almost all of them for absolutely insignificant reasons .
How can we expect young people to work their asses off when it will only make a difference for so few of them that playing the lottery looks like a better proposition ?
It 's no wonder at all that young people look for the easy jobs with average pay .
To ask for " cool nerds with hybrid careers " is a slap in the face of those who already excel and are not getting rewarded .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We live in a "rock star" economy: Few make it big and the rest are hardly differentiated at all.
There are many who are exactly as good as the few who land highly paid positions, and the only reason why they aren't up there comes down to chance.
This is the reason why parents tell their kids not to become musicians or any other kind of artist and the rest of the economy is becoming more and more like the arts.
We tell people to aspire to be the best and totally let down almost all of them for absolutely insignificant reasons.
How can we expect young people to work their asses off when it will only make a difference for so few of them that playing the lottery looks like a better proposition?
It's no wonder at all that young people look for the easy jobs with average pay.
To ask for "cool nerds with hybrid careers" is a slap in the face of those who already excel and are not getting rewarded.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30531468</id>
	<title>We are all Nerds Now</title>
	<author>ddsmooth</author>
	<datestamp>1261489680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>When I was 12 years old (back in 1995-96) I was in the sixth grade and I learned how to build websites. The next year, in seventh grade, I learned how to code in basic on old Apple II's.

In high school, (at Analy High School in Sebastopol, CA) I took two years of computer programming, in which we used visual basic and built awesome projects including some hilariously original and unique video games.

So for many years my peers and I have been involved in computers and computer programming within our public education system.

Not only did I have a great time designing and coding video games even back in high school, but this didn't prevent me and other friends like me from participating in school athletics, leadership, and other activities like music, art and theater.

These days, it seems like everyone and their grandmother has an internet connection and participates in our huge blossoming digital communication culture.

And while many modern computer users are not as well versed and/or trained in the art of programming, there are still plenty of us as there have been for many years.

Web 2.0 technology already posits average computer users as co-creators of the web.

I wholeheartedly concur that computer science is a fascinating subject and that it behooves us to encourage people to empower themselves by furthering their knowledge and understanding of these machines.

That notwithstanding, I feel that with the prevalence of Internet use today, we are well beyond a time where being associated with computers is being associated with something that is socially "uncool" and that people who want to learn already have in their clutches the power of the information superhighway to help get them started!</htmltext>
<tokenext>When I was 12 years old ( back in 1995-96 ) I was in the sixth grade and I learned how to build websites .
The next year , in seventh grade , I learned how to code in basic on old Apple II 's .
In high school , ( at Analy High School in Sebastopol , CA ) I took two years of computer programming , in which we used visual basic and built awesome projects including some hilariously original and unique video games .
So for many years my peers and I have been involved in computers and computer programming within our public education system .
Not only did I have a great time designing and coding video games even back in high school , but this did n't prevent me and other friends like me from participating in school athletics , leadership , and other activities like music , art and theater .
These days , it seems like everyone and their grandmother has an internet connection and participates in our huge blossoming digital communication culture .
And while many modern computer users are not as well versed and/or trained in the art of programming , there are still plenty of us as there have been for many years .
Web 2.0 technology already posits average computer users as co-creators of the web .
I wholeheartedly concur that computer science is a fascinating subject and that it behooves us to encourage people to empower themselves by furthering their knowledge and understanding of these machines .
That notwithstanding , I feel that with the prevalence of Internet use today , we are well beyond a time where being associated with computers is being associated with something that is socially " uncool " and that people who want to learn already have in their clutches the power of the information superhighway to help get them started !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I was 12 years old (back in 1995-96) I was in the sixth grade and I learned how to build websites.
The next year, in seventh grade, I learned how to code in basic on old Apple II's.
In high school, (at Analy High School in Sebastopol, CA) I took two years of computer programming, in which we used visual basic and built awesome projects including some hilariously original and unique video games.
So for many years my peers and I have been involved in computers and computer programming within our public education system.
Not only did I have a great time designing and coding video games even back in high school, but this didn't prevent me and other friends like me from participating in school athletics, leadership, and other activities like music, art and theater.
These days, it seems like everyone and their grandmother has an internet connection and participates in our huge blossoming digital communication culture.
And while many modern computer users are not as well versed and/or trained in the art of programming, there are still plenty of us as there have been for many years.
Web 2.0 technology already posits average computer users as co-creators of the web.
I wholeheartedly concur that computer science is a fascinating subject and that it behooves us to encourage people to empower themselves by furthering their knowledge and understanding of these machines.
That notwithstanding, I feel that with the prevalence of Internet use today, we are well beyond a time where being associated with computers is being associated with something that is socially "uncool" and that people who want to learn already have in their clutches the power of the information superhighway to help get them started!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527508</id>
	<title>I've seen things swinging the other direction.</title>
	<author>NoPantsJim</author>
	<datestamp>1261514220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Every time I go out somewhere, I can overhear idiots bashfully proclaiming to be "total nerds" to impress girls, despite not being able to string a sentence together or use a word with more than two syllables.
<br> <br>
Don't get me wrong, the whole nerd chic thing has been great to me, but guys who used to beat up guys like me calling themselves nerds just to get laid is a bit annoying.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Every time I go out somewhere , I can overhear idiots bashfully proclaiming to be " total nerds " to impress girls , despite not being able to string a sentence together or use a word with more than two syllables .
Do n't get me wrong , the whole nerd chic thing has been great to me , but guys who used to beat up guys like me calling themselves nerds just to get laid is a bit annoying .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Every time I go out somewhere, I can overhear idiots bashfully proclaiming to be "total nerds" to impress girls, despite not being able to string a sentence together or use a word with more than two syllables.
Don't get me wrong, the whole nerd chic thing has been great to me, but guys who used to beat up guys like me calling themselves nerds just to get laid is a bit annoying.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527654</id>
	<title>another appearence of the Sci-tech shortage myth</title>
	<author>peter303</author>
	<datestamp>1261514580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Various advocacy groups have been proclaiming severe shortages of scientists and engineers since Sputnik fifty years ago.  The loudest voices are computer companies who ask to hire more people from abroad under restrictive H-1B visas. And the National Science Foundation which has a vested interest in ever-increasing numbers of sci-tech students.
<br> <br>
On the opposing side are professional societies which worry about unemployment among older sci-tech workers. People are suspicious employers are interested in cheaper and more controllable labor using the visa program.
<br> <br>
Personally I think there is not much of an imbalance between supply and demand.
We have cycles where exciting new technologies like PCs, computers and smart phones attract new students.  Not to mention get-rich-quick booms like dot.com.  Then these are followed for business corrections that flush out the economic mercenaries and leave the dedicated.
<br> <br>
I do think there is a shortage of general computer and scientific literacy in broad society.  And this needs to be improved.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Various advocacy groups have been proclaiming severe shortages of scientists and engineers since Sputnik fifty years ago .
The loudest voices are computer companies who ask to hire more people from abroad under restrictive H-1B visas .
And the National Science Foundation which has a vested interest in ever-increasing numbers of sci-tech students .
On the opposing side are professional societies which worry about unemployment among older sci-tech workers .
People are suspicious employers are interested in cheaper and more controllable labor using the visa program .
Personally I think there is not much of an imbalance between supply and demand .
We have cycles where exciting new technologies like PCs , computers and smart phones attract new students .
Not to mention get-rich-quick booms like dot.com .
Then these are followed for business corrections that flush out the economic mercenaries and leave the dedicated .
I do think there is a shortage of general computer and scientific literacy in broad society .
And this needs to be improved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Various advocacy groups have been proclaiming severe shortages of scientists and engineers since Sputnik fifty years ago.
The loudest voices are computer companies who ask to hire more people from abroad under restrictive H-1B visas.
And the National Science Foundation which has a vested interest in ever-increasing numbers of sci-tech students.
On the opposing side are professional societies which worry about unemployment among older sci-tech workers.
People are suspicious employers are interested in cheaper and more controllable labor using the visa program.
Personally I think there is not much of an imbalance between supply and demand.
We have cycles where exciting new technologies like PCs, computers and smart phones attract new students.
Not to mention get-rich-quick booms like dot.com.
Then these are followed for business corrections that flush out the economic mercenaries and leave the dedicated.
I do think there is a shortage of general computer and scientific literacy in broad society.
And this needs to be improved.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528044</id>
	<title>I am a "cool" nerd and totally agree.</title>
	<author>Veni Vidi Dormi</author>
	<datestamp>1261472580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><tt>Did pretty well in undergrad and picked up a Computer Engineering degree.<br><br>Most of my classmates went on to work for the DoD.&nbsp; I took the Kurt Vonnegut approach and said, 'no thanks'.&nbsp; &nbsp;I was also pushed away from being a nerd because of the people.... yeah, I've got my good friends but mostly everyone I graduated with were, well, kinda sad.&nbsp; &nbsp;So many of them focused on siloing their skill set that they didn't bother peaking their heads out of the basement computer lab to get out a live a WELL-ROUNDED life.<br><br>Applied for an MFA program that specialized in 3D (Maya specifically)... did allright, had one heck of a time learning how to paint but was fortunate to have had a lot of this kind of education when I was young (teenager) and not really all the way into computers.<br><br>Now, I boot up WoW every 6 months to look at the new artwork and scene design (then turn it off so I can go out and meet hot girls).&nbsp; I bought BioShock for my Mac (finally!) and played it for a while but seem to have simply lost the taste for gaming.&nbsp; I know I know... but man, I do SO MUCH ELSE.<br><br>Now, I work as a systems architect full-time and teach&nbsp; drawing and 3D animation 2 nights a week.&nbsp; &nbsp; I make presentations that communicate so much and do so in a very captivating way....&nbsp; not to mention, I'm in with both the NERD scene and the ART scene.&nbsp; &nbsp;Anyone want to guess which is more fun?<br><br>I heard it explained in such a way once that practical degrees (engineering, architecture, comp sci, medicine, etc) are a great core skill-set to have but by branching out and getting something less practical, it expands your mind to the nth degree and makes those core skill-sets that much more effective.<br><br>This is by far the best decision I have made in my life.&nbsp;  </tt></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did pretty well in undergrad and picked up a Computer Engineering degree.Most of my classmates went on to work for the DoD.   I took the Kurt Vonnegut approach and said , 'no thanks'.     I was also pushed away from being a nerd because of the people.... yeah , I 've got my good friends but mostly everyone I graduated with were , well , kinda sad.     So many of them focused on siloing their skill set that they did n't bother peaking their heads out of the basement computer lab to get out a live a WELL-ROUNDED life.Applied for an MFA program that specialized in 3D ( Maya specifically ) ... did allright , had one heck of a time learning how to paint but was fortunate to have had a lot of this kind of education when I was young ( teenager ) and not really all the way into computers.Now , I boot up WoW every 6 months to look at the new artwork and scene design ( then turn it off so I can go out and meet hot girls ) .   I bought BioShock for my Mac ( finally !
) and played it for a while but seem to have simply lost the taste for gaming.   I know I know... but man , I do SO MUCH ELSE.Now , I work as a systems architect full-time and teach   drawing and 3D animation 2 nights a week.     I make presentations that communicate so much and do so in a very captivating way....   not to mention , I 'm in with both the NERD scene and the ART scene.     Anyone want to guess which is more fun ? I heard it explained in such a way once that practical degrees ( engineering , architecture , comp sci , medicine , etc ) are a great core skill-set to have but by branching out and getting something less practical , it expands your mind to the nth degree and makes those core skill-sets that much more effective.This is by far the best decision I have made in my life.  </tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did pretty well in undergrad and picked up a Computer Engineering degree.Most of my classmates went on to work for the DoD.  I took the Kurt Vonnegut approach and said, 'no thanks'.   I was also pushed away from being a nerd because of the people.... yeah, I've got my good friends but mostly everyone I graduated with were, well, kinda sad.   So many of them focused on siloing their skill set that they didn't bother peaking their heads out of the basement computer lab to get out a live a WELL-ROUNDED life.Applied for an MFA program that specialized in 3D (Maya specifically)... did allright, had one heck of a time learning how to paint but was fortunate to have had a lot of this kind of education when I was young (teenager) and not really all the way into computers.Now, I boot up WoW every 6 months to look at the new artwork and scene design (then turn it off so I can go out and meet hot girls).  I bought BioShock for my Mac (finally!
) and played it for a while but seem to have simply lost the taste for gaming.  I know I know... but man, I do SO MUCH ELSE.Now, I work as a systems architect full-time and teach  drawing and 3D animation 2 nights a week.    I make presentations that communicate so much and do so in a very captivating way....  not to mention, I'm in with both the NERD scene and the ART scene.   Anyone want to guess which is more fun?I heard it explained in such a way once that practical degrees (engineering, architecture, comp sci, medicine, etc) are a great core skill-set to have but by branching out and getting something less practical, it expands your mind to the nth degree and makes those core skill-sets that much more effective.This is by far the best decision I have made in my life.   </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528030</id>
	<title>It's easy... pay them.</title>
	<author>Maxo-Texas</author>
	<datestamp>1261472580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you pay lawyers and marketers and crap all over computer scientists and engineers in terms of pay, status, holiday work hours, then why do you expect anyone with a lick of brains to go into these fields?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you pay lawyers and marketers and crap all over computer scientists and engineers in terms of pay , status , holiday work hours , then why do you expect anyone with a lick of brains to go into these fields ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you pay lawyers and marketers and crap all over computer scientists and engineers in terms of pay, status, holiday work hours, then why do you expect anyone with a lick of brains to go into these fields?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527242</id>
	<title>He's absolutely correct</title>
	<author>mewsenews</author>
	<datestamp>1261513320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>'The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code. That is absolutely not the reality.'</p></div></blockquote><p>Quite right! It's a cubicle.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>'The fear is that if you pursue computer science , you will be stuck in a basement , writing code .
That is absolutely not the reality .
'Quite right !
It 's a cubicle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code.
That is absolutely not the reality.
'Quite right!
It's a cubicle.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527664</id>
	<title>Hmmm, computer science and arts?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261514580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How about more hype over nerdcore music?<p>
<a href="http://www.mcplusplus.com/" title="mcplusplus.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.mcplusplus.com/</a> [mcplusplus.com]
</p><p>
That oughtta get some more recruits into the war on ignorance!  One day I hope to be as cool as Monzy...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about more hype over nerdcore music ?
http : //www.mcplusplus.com/ [ mcplusplus.com ] That oughtta get some more recruits into the war on ignorance !
One day I hope to be as cool as Monzy.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about more hype over nerdcore music?
http://www.mcplusplus.com/ [mcplusplus.com]

That oughtta get some more recruits into the war on ignorance!
One day I hope to be as cool as Monzy...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528720</id>
	<title>Re:The Onus Should Not Be on the Nerds</title>
	<author>tsstahl</author>
	<datestamp>1261475340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sissy.
<br> <br>
I would add a smiley, but my presence on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. says it all.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sissy .
I would add a smiley , but my presence on / .
says it all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sissy.
I would add a smiley, but my presence on /.
says it all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30556136</id>
	<title>Hmmmm!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261846560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nerds create Jar Jar Binks did they!<br>Cool will they be never!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nerds create Jar Jar Binks did they ! Cool will they be never !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nerds create Jar Jar Binks did they!Cool will they be never!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532634</id>
	<title>Girls</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261503720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's all about the Girls. People will do thing's that will get the women to like you. Young girls want the sport starts, and if you do well, you will have girls throwing themselves at you on mass.  Local football stars here in Australia, have girls throwing themselves at them on mass and the girls are proud of it. Asain girls seem to be differnet, as they quite like the nerds...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's all about the Girls .
People will do thing 's that will get the women to like you .
Young girls want the sport starts , and if you do well , you will have girls throwing themselves at you on mass .
Local football stars here in Australia , have girls throwing themselves at them on mass and the girls are proud of it .
Asain girls seem to be differnet , as they quite like the nerds.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's all about the Girls.
People will do thing's that will get the women to like you.
Young girls want the sport starts, and if you do well, you will have girls throwing themselves at you on mass.
Local football stars here in Australia, have girls throwing themselves at them on mass and the girls are proud of it.
Asain girls seem to be differnet, as they quite like the nerds...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529212</id>
	<title>Hey, THAT is my reality, you insensitive clod!</title>
	<author>topcoder</author>
	<datestamp>1261477200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>'The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code. That is absolutely not the reality.'</p> </div><p>Hey, THAT is my reality, you insensitive clod!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>'The fear is that if you pursue computer science , you will be stuck in a basement , writing code .
That is absolutely not the reality .
' Hey , THAT is my reality , you insensitive clod !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code.
That is absolutely not the reality.
' Hey, THAT is my reality, you insensitive clod!
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528370</id>
	<title>Re:Media Branding</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261473900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Hell, music has been constantly fusing with new technology for ages, was Les Paul a "nerd"?</p></div></blockquote><p>Yes. Yes, he was.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hell , music has been constantly fusing with new technology for ages , was Les Paul a " nerd " ? Yes .
Yes , he was .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hell, music has been constantly fusing with new technology for ages, was Les Paul a "nerd"?Yes.
Yes, he was.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527368</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528398</id>
	<title>One Example</title>
	<author>opec</author>
	<datestamp>1261473960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Cool article. I just wrapped up work on my undergrad, music education. I spent the entire fall semester student teaching in my city's public fine arts magnet school (I teach band). These kids all had to audition into the school in specific art areas (band, strings, art, drama, creative writing, dance, ballet, etc) and their minds are all running at about a mile a minute. Even though these kids were all there for the arts, I knew that at least a few of them would end up as programmers for Google, Sun, or whatever in the future. With that in mind, I created a hybrid music/computer programming project with the free, open source program LilyPond (http://lilypond.org). With the teachers' assistance, we had 5th graders composing music by hand onto manuscript, which they then transferred into LilyPond on the computer. They were successful in producing beautiful manuscript in a computer-programming-oriented way. I had a fun, though nerdy semester.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Cool article .
I just wrapped up work on my undergrad , music education .
I spent the entire fall semester student teaching in my city 's public fine arts magnet school ( I teach band ) .
These kids all had to audition into the school in specific art areas ( band , strings , art , drama , creative writing , dance , ballet , etc ) and their minds are all running at about a mile a minute .
Even though these kids were all there for the arts , I knew that at least a few of them would end up as programmers for Google , Sun , or whatever in the future .
With that in mind , I created a hybrid music/computer programming project with the free , open source program LilyPond ( http : //lilypond.org ) .
With the teachers ' assistance , we had 5th graders composing music by hand onto manuscript , which they then transferred into LilyPond on the computer .
They were successful in producing beautiful manuscript in a computer-programming-oriented way .
I had a fun , though nerdy semester .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cool article.
I just wrapped up work on my undergrad, music education.
I spent the entire fall semester student teaching in my city's public fine arts magnet school (I teach band).
These kids all had to audition into the school in specific art areas (band, strings, art, drama, creative writing, dance, ballet, etc) and their minds are all running at about a mile a minute.
Even though these kids were all there for the arts, I knew that at least a few of them would end up as programmers for Google, Sun, or whatever in the future.
With that in mind, I created a hybrid music/computer programming project with the free, open source program LilyPond (http://lilypond.org).
With the teachers' assistance, we had 5th graders composing music by hand onto manuscript, which they then transferred into LilyPond on the computer.
They were successful in producing beautiful manuscript in a computer-programming-oriented way.
I had a fun, though nerdy semester.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30536744</id>
	<title>Clearly ...</title>
	<author>Drey</author>
	<datestamp>1259778600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... the US economy needs Buckaroo Banzai.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... the US economy needs Buckaroo Banzai .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... the US economy needs Buckaroo Banzai.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532566</id>
	<title>Almost right...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261502760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have lived through the morass called corporate IT for two decades now.  I share your sentiments with respect to the meat-grinder which makes us responsible for "training" disinterested, unqualified contractor to assume our responsibilities so that some arbitrary budget goal can be obtained.  The difference between a warm body and an engaged and didactic peer is indisputable, but keeping a smart and talented individual from realizing their market value is the full-time job of at least two layers of middle management and an entire cottage industry of contract shops like Adecco.</p><p>My variance is with your assessment of economic principles and schools... Keynes accepted the inverse relationship between labor pool size and wages as an axiomatic of CLASSICAL economic principles; however, like Galbraith, he recognizes the marginal diminishing effectiveness with respect to specialization.</p><p>It's the Austrian school that canonizes the inverse relationship between labor and wages as inviolable, hence the drive towards globalization as the key factor in realizing aggregate maximum value.  Continual improvement will workout the details of minimizing the wage component.</p><p>Masters thesis on Hayek's influence on 1970's California politics.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have lived through the morass called corporate IT for two decades now .
I share your sentiments with respect to the meat-grinder which makes us responsible for " training " disinterested , unqualified contractor to assume our responsibilities so that some arbitrary budget goal can be obtained .
The difference between a warm body and an engaged and didactic peer is indisputable , but keeping a smart and talented individual from realizing their market value is the full-time job of at least two layers of middle management and an entire cottage industry of contract shops like Adecco.My variance is with your assessment of economic principles and schools... Keynes accepted the inverse relationship between labor pool size and wages as an axiomatic of CLASSICAL economic principles ; however , like Galbraith , he recognizes the marginal diminishing effectiveness with respect to specialization.It 's the Austrian school that canonizes the inverse relationship between labor and wages as inviolable , hence the drive towards globalization as the key factor in realizing aggregate maximum value .
Continual improvement will workout the details of minimizing the wage component.Masters thesis on Hayek 's influence on 1970 's California politics .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have lived through the morass called corporate IT for two decades now.
I share your sentiments with respect to the meat-grinder which makes us responsible for "training" disinterested, unqualified contractor to assume our responsibilities so that some arbitrary budget goal can be obtained.
The difference between a warm body and an engaged and didactic peer is indisputable, but keeping a smart and talented individual from realizing their market value is the full-time job of at least two layers of middle management and an entire cottage industry of contract shops like Adecco.My variance is with your assessment of economic principles and schools... Keynes accepted the inverse relationship between labor pool size and wages as an axiomatic of CLASSICAL economic principles; however, like Galbraith, he recognizes the marginal diminishing effectiveness with respect to specialization.It's the Austrian school that canonizes the inverse relationship between labor and wages as inviolable, hence the drive towards globalization as the key factor in realizing aggregate maximum value.
Continual improvement will workout the details of minimizing the wage component.Masters thesis on Hayek's influence on 1970's California politics.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527346</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528438</id>
	<title>Re:I've seen things swinging the other direction.</title>
	<author>divisionbyzero</author>
	<datestamp>1261474140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I thought nerd chic went out with the dot bomb.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I thought nerd chic went out with the dot bomb .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I thought nerd chic went out with the dot bomb.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527508</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529398</id>
	<title>Re:Media Branding</title>
	<author>eallanjr</author>
	<datestamp>1261477980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I blame Microsoft's own media department for branding computer users as nerds.  All you have to do is look at ANY of the "Windows 7 was my idea", or "I'm a PC" commercials.  I mean c'mon, curly-haired guy with thick glasses thinking about ways to make Windows better while he's in the shower, then calling his mom to tell her about it?!  Or "spontaneously" breaking into a (un)coordinated dance at the retail store?</p><p>And of course lets not forget the nightmare-inducing Windows 7 release party instructional video...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I blame Microsoft 's own media department for branding computer users as nerds .
All you have to do is look at ANY of the " Windows 7 was my idea " , or " I 'm a PC " commercials .
I mean c'mon , curly-haired guy with thick glasses thinking about ways to make Windows better while he 's in the shower , then calling his mom to tell her about it ? !
Or " spontaneously " breaking into a ( un ) coordinated dance at the retail store ? And of course lets not forget the nightmare-inducing Windows 7 release party instructional video.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I blame Microsoft's own media department for branding computer users as nerds.
All you have to do is look at ANY of the "Windows 7 was my idea", or "I'm a PC" commercials.
I mean c'mon, curly-haired guy with thick glasses thinking about ways to make Windows better while he's in the shower, then calling his mom to tell her about it?!
Or "spontaneously" breaking into a (un)coordinated dance at the retail store?And of course lets not forget the nightmare-inducing Windows 7 release party instructional video...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527368</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527628</id>
	<title>wrong focus yet again</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261514520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem is not as much a lack of skills (set) amongst the techies, but a lack of seemingly any skills whatsoever amongst the "leadership".<br>The nerds and geeks are not the weak links in the chain.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is not as much a lack of skills ( set ) amongst the techies , but a lack of seemingly any skills whatsoever amongst the " leadership " .The nerds and geeks are not the weak links in the chain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is not as much a lack of skills (set) amongst the techies, but a lack of seemingly any skills whatsoever amongst the "leadership".The nerds and geeks are not the weak links in the chain.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30533716</id>
	<title>Re:Cool? You don't know cool.</title>
	<author>laejoh</author>
	<datestamp>1259749260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You didn't mention his name but to answer your question, -273.15 degrees Celsius.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You did n't mention his name but to answer your question , -273.15 degrees Celsius .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You didn't mention his name but to answer your question, -273.15 degrees Celsius.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527268</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30534996</id>
	<title>If you want cool nerds</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1259768220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're going to have to put an end to the excessive bullying in schools. And while you're at it, why not spend some time, money, and effort on science education in this country? Without those two things, the situation will never be rectified.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're going to have to put an end to the excessive bullying in schools .
And while you 're at it , why not spend some time , money , and effort on science education in this country ?
Without those two things , the situation will never be rectified .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're going to have to put an end to the excessive bullying in schools.
And while you're at it, why not spend some time, money, and effort on science education in this country?
Without those two things, the situation will never be rectified.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529794</id>
	<title>Re:The Onus Should Not Be on the Nerds</title>
	<author>mirix</author>
	<datestamp>1261479720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Washed out college ball players tend to be paid significantly less than CS folk, last I checked.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Washed out college ball players tend to be paid significantly less than CS folk , last I checked .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Washed out college ball players tend to be paid significantly less than CS folk, last I checked.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527398</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30531334</id>
	<title>Re:That's me!</title>
	<author>ErikZ</author>
	<datestamp>1261488600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Those were the best jobs I've had. Where I wasn't even hired to help out in that way, but then I walk around and see what people do and then I wince.</p><p>And then I help them knock out 90\% of the stupid out of their job. Great feeling. Can't really get that kind of job directly though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Those were the best jobs I 've had .
Where I was n't even hired to help out in that way , but then I walk around and see what people do and then I wince.And then I help them knock out 90 \ % of the stupid out of their job .
Great feeling .
Ca n't really get that kind of job directly though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Those were the best jobs I've had.
Where I wasn't even hired to help out in that way, but then I walk around and see what people do and then I wince.And then I help them knock out 90\% of the stupid out of their job.
Great feeling.
Can't really get that kind of job directly though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527468</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527444</id>
	<title>Affairs</title>
	<author>FlyingBishop</author>
	<datestamp>1261513980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Clearly, Bill Gates, and some of the other titans of the industry need to bite the bullet and have some very public, scandalous affairs so that the media will start talking about how immoral and terrible people software designers are. Then suddenly sportsmen will become model citizens and no one will want to go into sports anymore.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Clearly , Bill Gates , and some of the other titans of the industry need to bite the bullet and have some very public , scandalous affairs so that the media will start talking about how immoral and terrible people software designers are .
Then suddenly sportsmen will become model citizens and no one will want to go into sports anymore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Clearly, Bill Gates, and some of the other titans of the industry need to bite the bullet and have some very public, scandalous affairs so that the media will start talking about how immoral and terrible people software designers are.
Then suddenly sportsmen will become model citizens and no one will want to go into sports anymore.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527298</id>
	<title>How else can you change the world as a teenager?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261513500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Open source projects, such as Fedora, provide a way for teenagers to make contributions (and not just with code) that help millions of people. That aren't a lot of other ways to do that. For example Ian Weller is a very significant participant (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ianweller) in the Fedora Project and is still in high school.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Open source projects , such as Fedora , provide a way for teenagers to make contributions ( and not just with code ) that help millions of people .
That are n't a lot of other ways to do that .
For example Ian Weller is a very significant participant ( https : //fedoraproject.org/wiki/User : Ianweller ) in the Fedora Project and is still in high school .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Open source projects, such as Fedora, provide a way for teenagers to make contributions (and not just with code) that help millions of people.
That aren't a lot of other ways to do that.
For example Ian Weller is a very significant participant (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ianweller) in the Fedora Project and is still in high school.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528686</id>
	<title>IT Department is obsolete</title>
	<author>alexhmit01</author>
	<datestamp>1261475160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>50 years ago, companies had a secretarial pool of young women that could be assigned where ever was needed to type things up for easier duplication.  25 years ago, every executive had a secretary as that skill became critical to operations and moved throughout the company.  Today, executives might have an assistant to handle clerical tasks (at the point of the business usage), but typing and communication is a critical business skill and everyone emails and most carry a Blackberry or other mobile communication device.</p><p>20 years ago, an IT Department made sense, it was "new" technology, with the server room being similar to the mainframe with central control.  At this point, Network Support and Help Desk can be centralized and outsourced, just like office supplies are ordered from a centralized location, but Technology as a strategic resource?  No department should be without technology in the department.</p><p>In 10 years, serious spreadsheet crunching should be the purview of everyone, as should basic database querying.  Needing an analyst to gather your spreadsheet is like needing a secretary to type your emails.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>50 years ago , companies had a secretarial pool of young women that could be assigned where ever was needed to type things up for easier duplication .
25 years ago , every executive had a secretary as that skill became critical to operations and moved throughout the company .
Today , executives might have an assistant to handle clerical tasks ( at the point of the business usage ) , but typing and communication is a critical business skill and everyone emails and most carry a Blackberry or other mobile communication device.20 years ago , an IT Department made sense , it was " new " technology , with the server room being similar to the mainframe with central control .
At this point , Network Support and Help Desk can be centralized and outsourced , just like office supplies are ordered from a centralized location , but Technology as a strategic resource ?
No department should be without technology in the department.In 10 years , serious spreadsheet crunching should be the purview of everyone , as should basic database querying .
Needing an analyst to gather your spreadsheet is like needing a secretary to type your emails .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>50 years ago, companies had a secretarial pool of young women that could be assigned where ever was needed to type things up for easier duplication.
25 years ago, every executive had a secretary as that skill became critical to operations and moved throughout the company.
Today, executives might have an assistant to handle clerical tasks (at the point of the business usage), but typing and communication is a critical business skill and everyone emails and most carry a Blackberry or other mobile communication device.20 years ago, an IT Department made sense, it was "new" technology, with the server room being similar to the mainframe with central control.
At this point, Network Support and Help Desk can be centralized and outsourced, just like office supplies are ordered from a centralized location, but Technology as a strategic resource?
No department should be without technology in the department.In 10 years, serious spreadsheet crunching should be the purview of everyone, as should basic database querying.
Needing an analyst to gather your spreadsheet is like needing a secretary to type your emails.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527468</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529242</id>
	<title>Programming is a Craft</title>
	<author>Errol backfiring</author>
	<datestamp>1261477320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And people in the western world do not want to pay craftsmen anymore. IT managers don't even believe they exist, and often manage programmers like conveyor belt workers. So what we need is better managers who know what they are doing (almost a contradictio in terminis, I know).</p><p>And off course the western world needs to wake up. What are we without craftsmen? A society of just managers and social workers? (insert Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy jokes here)</p><p>But what especially the USA needs is less lawyers And the "no cure no pay" system should be acknowledged as being criminal, because that is what made US courts into the gambling houses they are now. Programming is dangerous, just like building small aircraft is. The (very real) fear for billion-claims has wiped out most of the small aircraft industry, and small programming companies will go the same way if any random ridiculous claim can make you go bankrupt.</p><p>I mean, just read the stories on any day on slashdot. Would you want to become a programmer when you read it? Do you think <em>your</em> code is more than just a weapon in court? If I had to decide now, I'd have picked a safer and more rewarding profession.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And people in the western world do not want to pay craftsmen anymore .
IT managers do n't even believe they exist , and often manage programmers like conveyor belt workers .
So what we need is better managers who know what they are doing ( almost a contradictio in terminis , I know ) .And off course the western world needs to wake up .
What are we without craftsmen ?
A society of just managers and social workers ?
( insert Hitch-hiker 's Guide to the Galaxy jokes here ) But what especially the USA needs is less lawyers And the " no cure no pay " system should be acknowledged as being criminal , because that is what made US courts into the gambling houses they are now .
Programming is dangerous , just like building small aircraft is .
The ( very real ) fear for billion-claims has wiped out most of the small aircraft industry , and small programming companies will go the same way if any random ridiculous claim can make you go bankrupt.I mean , just read the stories on any day on slashdot .
Would you want to become a programmer when you read it ?
Do you think your code is more than just a weapon in court ?
If I had to decide now , I 'd have picked a safer and more rewarding profession .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And people in the western world do not want to pay craftsmen anymore.
IT managers don't even believe they exist, and often manage programmers like conveyor belt workers.
So what we need is better managers who know what they are doing (almost a contradictio in terminis, I know).And off course the western world needs to wake up.
What are we without craftsmen?
A society of just managers and social workers?
(insert Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy jokes here)But what especially the USA needs is less lawyers And the "no cure no pay" system should be acknowledged as being criminal, because that is what made US courts into the gambling houses they are now.
Programming is dangerous, just like building small aircraft is.
The (very real) fear for billion-claims has wiped out most of the small aircraft industry, and small programming companies will go the same way if any random ridiculous claim can make you go bankrupt.I mean, just read the stories on any day on slashdot.
Would you want to become a programmer when you read it?
Do you think your code is more than just a weapon in court?
If I had to decide now, I'd have picked a safer and more rewarding profession.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527346</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527984</id>
	<title>Quite unlikely to happen</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261472400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Writing code is a craft, much like carpentry or gemstone cutting.</p><p>Except I would say it is quite a bit more inaccessible, for a lot of reasons:</p><p>- The only way to get better is to practice, with almost no limit to how good you get.<br>- The best are worth many times the weight of the less-than-best, and you typically cannot make a living knowing only one language.<br>- Results aren't immediately visible or appreciated by others.</p><p>So the best parallel is more like an expert mining technician, where you only find out the value of their work when the mine collapses (or not).</p><p>You could be able to produce university graduates who knew quite a bit about the history of wine, and would be able to create "Hello World" statements in five different languages, but what would they then be used for? Writing code? No point. Team leads? Maybe. Except that "Team Leader Of IT Workers" does not have the same educational tangibility for people to devote their lives to achieving excellence in it from the point of school onwards. Hence, you get IT workers, and non-IT workers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Writing code is a craft , much like carpentry or gemstone cutting.Except I would say it is quite a bit more inaccessible , for a lot of reasons : - The only way to get better is to practice , with almost no limit to how good you get.- The best are worth many times the weight of the less-than-best , and you typically can not make a living knowing only one language.- Results are n't immediately visible or appreciated by others.So the best parallel is more like an expert mining technician , where you only find out the value of their work when the mine collapses ( or not ) .You could be able to produce university graduates who knew quite a bit about the history of wine , and would be able to create " Hello World " statements in five different languages , but what would they then be used for ?
Writing code ?
No point .
Team leads ?
Maybe. Except that " Team Leader Of IT Workers " does not have the same educational tangibility for people to devote their lives to achieving excellence in it from the point of school onwards .
Hence , you get IT workers , and non-IT workers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Writing code is a craft, much like carpentry or gemstone cutting.Except I would say it is quite a bit more inaccessible, for a lot of reasons:- The only way to get better is to practice, with almost no limit to how good you get.- The best are worth many times the weight of the less-than-best, and you typically cannot make a living knowing only one language.- Results aren't immediately visible or appreciated by others.So the best parallel is more like an expert mining technician, where you only find out the value of their work when the mine collapses (or not).You could be able to produce university graduates who knew quite a bit about the history of wine, and would be able to create "Hello World" statements in five different languages, but what would they then be used for?
Writing code?
No point.
Team leads?
Maybe. Except that "Team Leader Of IT Workers" does not have the same educational tangibility for people to devote their lives to achieving excellence in it from the point of school onwards.
Hence, you get IT workers, and non-IT workers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30530114</id>
	<title>Re:idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261481280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>they'll be sitting in mom's basement e-mailing resumes, employers don't want fresh-out-of-school grads.  maybe we need a national apprenticeship program to give young people experience in the tech fields.</p></div><p>I can agree with this. Germany has a good approach towards engineering education.  Students go through the typical University level engineering education with math, physics, engineering, etc, but then it is also paired with apprenticeships where they are mentored with real hands on work (note: there is a difference between apprenticeship and "intern" or "coop" like we have in the USA where a college student sits in front of a computer all day with no hands on work).  Also, if you want to get an engineering PhD you have the option of being paired with a private company and basing your thesis on real work you do at a real job.  USA academics look down upon private sector work and consider it work done by people who couldn't cut it in academia, so our university system tends to produce ivory tower academics rather than practical ones like Germany that are useful to the private sector economy (that's NOT to say that academic engineers aren't important, but we seem to not have a balance here in the USA).  So, I think our university and corporate system is partially to blame here.</p><p>Culturally we have a real problem with where scientific and engineering work is placed both economically and socially, just like the article summary suggests. Here, patent lawyers get paid more than the engineer(s) who designed and built the product they are patenting and it says a lot about our society and system of governance. In Europe, getting an engineering degree typically indicates that you are solidly in the upper ranks of the social hierarchy--the same definitely can't be said in the USA as I'm sure everyone here knows.  It makes me worry we are riding on the heels of the 1950s where all the good scientists and engineers emigrated here to escape the World War, and that slowly but surely we are turning into a South America type banana republic while the world economy and intellectual activity shifts back to Europe and Asia.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>they 'll be sitting in mom 's basement e-mailing resumes , employers do n't want fresh-out-of-school grads .
maybe we need a national apprenticeship program to give young people experience in the tech fields.I can agree with this .
Germany has a good approach towards engineering education .
Students go through the typical University level engineering education with math , physics , engineering , etc , but then it is also paired with apprenticeships where they are mentored with real hands on work ( note : there is a difference between apprenticeship and " intern " or " coop " like we have in the USA where a college student sits in front of a computer all day with no hands on work ) .
Also , if you want to get an engineering PhD you have the option of being paired with a private company and basing your thesis on real work you do at a real job .
USA academics look down upon private sector work and consider it work done by people who could n't cut it in academia , so our university system tends to produce ivory tower academics rather than practical ones like Germany that are useful to the private sector economy ( that 's NOT to say that academic engineers are n't important , but we seem to not have a balance here in the USA ) .
So , I think our university and corporate system is partially to blame here.Culturally we have a real problem with where scientific and engineering work is placed both economically and socially , just like the article summary suggests .
Here , patent lawyers get paid more than the engineer ( s ) who designed and built the product they are patenting and it says a lot about our society and system of governance .
In Europe , getting an engineering degree typically indicates that you are solidly in the upper ranks of the social hierarchy--the same definitely ca n't be said in the USA as I 'm sure everyone here knows .
It makes me worry we are riding on the heels of the 1950s where all the good scientists and engineers emigrated here to escape the World War , and that slowly but surely we are turning into a South America type banana republic while the world economy and intellectual activity shifts back to Europe and Asia .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>they'll be sitting in mom's basement e-mailing resumes, employers don't want fresh-out-of-school grads.
maybe we need a national apprenticeship program to give young people experience in the tech fields.I can agree with this.
Germany has a good approach towards engineering education.
Students go through the typical University level engineering education with math, physics, engineering, etc, but then it is also paired with apprenticeships where they are mentored with real hands on work (note: there is a difference between apprenticeship and "intern" or "coop" like we have in the USA where a college student sits in front of a computer all day with no hands on work).
Also, if you want to get an engineering PhD you have the option of being paired with a private company and basing your thesis on real work you do at a real job.
USA academics look down upon private sector work and consider it work done by people who couldn't cut it in academia, so our university system tends to produce ivory tower academics rather than practical ones like Germany that are useful to the private sector economy (that's NOT to say that academic engineers aren't important, but we seem to not have a balance here in the USA).
So, I think our university and corporate system is partially to blame here.Culturally we have a real problem with where scientific and engineering work is placed both economically and socially, just like the article summary suggests.
Here, patent lawyers get paid more than the engineer(s) who designed and built the product they are patenting and it says a lot about our society and system of governance.
In Europe, getting an engineering degree typically indicates that you are solidly in the upper ranks of the social hierarchy--the same definitely can't be said in the USA as I'm sure everyone here knows.
It makes me worry we are riding on the heels of the 1950s where all the good scientists and engineers emigrated here to escape the World War, and that slowly but surely we are turning into a South America type banana republic while the world economy and intellectual activity shifts back to Europe and Asia.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527224</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30531988</id>
	<title>Not the reality</title>
	<author>Metasquares</author>
	<datestamp>1261495560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code. That is absolutely not the reality.</p></div></blockquote><p>

Absolutely not! You'll be stuck in an office, writing code<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The fear is that if you pursue computer science , you will be stuck in a basement , writing code .
That is absolutely not the reality .
Absolutely not !
You 'll be stuck in an office , writing code : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code.
That is absolutely not the reality.
Absolutely not!
You'll be stuck in an office, writing code :)
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30530906</id>
	<title>Nerds only</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261485420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm sorry, but, as a 15-year IT professional, the last thing I want is people in fields outside of IT learning computer science.  I have a difficult time weeding through much of the crap produced by those within the field...expanding that to everyone else just makes the pile that much bigger.</p><p>While it has been profitable and career building cleaning up the messes left behind by accountants, managers and marketing people that thought they could develop software, design networks, "fix" PCs, etc., it has also been extremely stressful, frustrating and exhausting.</p><p>Often I feel as if there is no "real" IT work out there...that IT is simply acting the garbage man to the horde of messes that everyone else makes.  While I don't complain about the good pay, it is not exactly a fulfilling career.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm sorry , but , as a 15-year IT professional , the last thing I want is people in fields outside of IT learning computer science .
I have a difficult time weeding through much of the crap produced by those within the field...expanding that to everyone else just makes the pile that much bigger.While it has been profitable and career building cleaning up the messes left behind by accountants , managers and marketing people that thought they could develop software , design networks , " fix " PCs , etc. , it has also been extremely stressful , frustrating and exhausting.Often I feel as if there is no " real " IT work out there...that IT is simply acting the garbage man to the horde of messes that everyone else makes .
While I do n't complain about the good pay , it is not exactly a fulfilling career .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm sorry, but, as a 15-year IT professional, the last thing I want is people in fields outside of IT learning computer science.
I have a difficult time weeding through much of the crap produced by those within the field...expanding that to everyone else just makes the pile that much bigger.While it has been profitable and career building cleaning up the messes left behind by accountants, managers and marketing people that thought they could develop software, design networks, "fix" PCs, etc., it has also been extremely stressful, frustrating and exhausting.Often I feel as if there is no "real" IT work out there...that IT is simply acting the garbage man to the horde of messes that everyone else makes.
While I don't complain about the good pay, it is not exactly a fulfilling career.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527238</id>
	<title>Solution is easy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261513320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's quite simple.  Give the technology classes to people who actually understand the subject and can teach interesting aspects of computer science.</p><p>All of my computer courses were either run by secretaries "Learn excel!" or mathematicians "Learn esoteric matlab graphing!"</p><p>Teach kids something more entertaining for a broader swath of students like visual effects.  Write a renderer in a compositing application.  or Teach kids Torque Game Builder.   Something simple but creates a product the students actually are interested in.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's quite simple .
Give the technology classes to people who actually understand the subject and can teach interesting aspects of computer science.All of my computer courses were either run by secretaries " Learn excel !
" or mathematicians " Learn esoteric matlab graphing !
" Teach kids something more entertaining for a broader swath of students like visual effects .
Write a renderer in a compositing application .
or Teach kids Torque Game Builder .
Something simple but creates a product the students actually are interested in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's quite simple.
Give the technology classes to people who actually understand the subject and can teach interesting aspects of computer science.All of my computer courses were either run by secretaries "Learn excel!
" or mathematicians "Learn esoteric matlab graphing!
"Teach kids something more entertaining for a broader swath of students like visual effects.
Write a renderer in a compositing application.
or Teach kids Torque Game Builder.
Something simple but creates a product the students actually are interested in.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527994</id>
	<title>Isn't it work related?</title>
	<author>spyfrog</author>
	<datestamp>1261472460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Isn't this problem a bit work related?<br>Where I live IT is seen as a path to unemployment because of outsourcing. Especially the low end entry jobs that you start with has been outsourced so you can't get the necessary experience to get a work. This is of course fatal for a field that doesn't really have so much attraction - an career either need to have a good chance for work in it or it have to be cool. Appearing to be neither isn't helping IT along.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is n't this problem a bit work related ? Where I live IT is seen as a path to unemployment because of outsourcing .
Especially the low end entry jobs that you start with has been outsourced so you ca n't get the necessary experience to get a work .
This is of course fatal for a field that does n't really have so much attraction - an career either need to have a good chance for work in it or it have to be cool .
Appearing to be neither is n't helping IT along .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn't this problem a bit work related?Where I live IT is seen as a path to unemployment because of outsourcing.
Especially the low end entry jobs that you start with has been outsourced so you can't get the necessary experience to get a work.
This is of course fatal for a field that doesn't really have so much attraction - an career either need to have a good chance for work in it or it have to be cool.
Appearing to be neither isn't helping IT along.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527224</id>
	<title>idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261513260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>they'll be sitting in mom's basement e-mailing resumes, employers don't want fresh-out-of-school grads.  maybe we need a national apprenticeship program to give young people experience in the tech fields.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>they 'll be sitting in mom 's basement e-mailing resumes , employers do n't want fresh-out-of-school grads .
maybe we need a national apprenticeship program to give young people experience in the tech fields .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>they'll be sitting in mom's basement e-mailing resumes, employers don't want fresh-out-of-school grads.
maybe we need a national apprenticeship program to give young people experience in the tech fields.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528240</id>
	<title>I tried to be cool but it didn't work</title>
	<author>tyroneking</author>
	<datestamp>1261473300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Many many many years ago (sob) I was a school kid being interviewed by the local radio station at the after-school computer club (back in the day the teacher and students had to volunteer to study computing in our own time): "Will you be a computer professional when you grown up son?" asked the radio presented; "No" said I "I only see computers as a tool to help me to do my actual job".<br>Years later I entered a clinical profession, and honestly my knowledge of computing did not help one bit; because non-computing jobs do not offer the scope for one to just jump up and say "I'm gonna use a sort algorithm / Python / Web Services for that" - instead the employer will get a computing professional on the case.<br>(Even later I entered a computing profession and now my knowledge and innate interest means that I earn lots of money and don't have to do any more stinking pharmacy<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Many many many years ago ( sob ) I was a school kid being interviewed by the local radio station at the after-school computer club ( back in the day the teacher and students had to volunteer to study computing in our own time ) : " Will you be a computer professional when you grown up son ?
" asked the radio presented ; " No " said I " I only see computers as a tool to help me to do my actual job " .Years later I entered a clinical profession , and honestly my knowledge of computing did not help one bit ; because non-computing jobs do not offer the scope for one to just jump up and say " I 'm gon na use a sort algorithm / Python / Web Services for that " - instead the employer will get a computing professional on the case .
( Even later I entered a computing profession and now my knowledge and innate interest means that I earn lots of money and do n't have to do any more stinking pharmacy : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many many many years ago (sob) I was a school kid being interviewed by the local radio station at the after-school computer club (back in the day the teacher and students had to volunteer to study computing in our own time): "Will you be a computer professional when you grown up son?
" asked the radio presented; "No" said I "I only see computers as a tool to help me to do my actual job".Years later I entered a clinical profession, and honestly my knowledge of computing did not help one bit; because non-computing jobs do not offer the scope for one to just jump up and say "I'm gonna use a sort algorithm / Python / Web Services for that" - instead the employer will get a computing professional on the case.
(Even later I entered a computing profession and now my knowledge and innate interest means that I earn lots of money and don't have to do any more stinking pharmacy :)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528094</id>
	<title>Another nail in the coffin</title>
	<author>KGBear</author>
	<datestamp>1261472820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Don't get me wrong - I think they are right. It's about time CS enters the mainstream; it's good for the economy; it's important that this happens. But, this is another nail in the coffin of the "geek era." We will go back to being nerds and the extraordinary period when we were relevant and even sorta cool will be over. The question I'm interested in is, what's the next thing we will make our own? I hope it happens a little bit like Makers, by Cory Doctorow...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't get me wrong - I think they are right .
It 's about time CS enters the mainstream ; it 's good for the economy ; it 's important that this happens .
But , this is another nail in the coffin of the " geek era .
" We will go back to being nerds and the extraordinary period when we were relevant and even sorta cool will be over .
The question I 'm interested in is , what 's the next thing we will make our own ?
I hope it happens a little bit like Makers , by Cory Doctorow.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't get me wrong - I think they are right.
It's about time CS enters the mainstream; it's good for the economy; it's important that this happens.
But, this is another nail in the coffin of the "geek era.
" We will go back to being nerds and the extraordinary period when we were relevant and even sorta cool will be over.
The question I'm interested in is, what's the next thing we will make our own?
I hope it happens a little bit like Makers, by Cory Doctorow...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528160</id>
	<title>Re:I think us nerds are doing fine...</title>
	<author>thisnamestoolong</author>
	<datestamp>1261473000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Jesus dude, it was a joke (well it really happened, but it certainly did not actually make my life).  I bet people hate watching movies with you...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Jesus dude , it was a joke ( well it really happened , but it certainly did not actually make my life ) .
I bet people hate watching movies with you.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Jesus dude, it was a joke (well it really happened, but it certainly did not actually make my life).
I bet people hate watching movies with you...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30530652</id>
	<title>That should be backwards</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261483860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not up to the nerds to start being cool. It's up to the general populace to start respecting scholarly pursuits.</p><p>In Asian culture, the most respected person in the community is the teacher. Someone who is highly educated is given the utmost respect. Of course, in America it seems like the opposite is true.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not up to the nerds to start being cool .
It 's up to the general populace to start respecting scholarly pursuits.In Asian culture , the most respected person in the community is the teacher .
Someone who is highly educated is given the utmost respect .
Of course , in America it seems like the opposite is true .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not up to the nerds to start being cool.
It's up to the general populace to start respecting scholarly pursuits.In Asian culture, the most respected person in the community is the teacher.
Someone who is highly educated is given the utmost respect.
Of course, in America it seems like the opposite is true.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527300</id>
	<title>Not a hope</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261513500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As long as we keep spending money on kids who are good at sports, instead of those with discernable intellects, the country is fucked. We need to make it *uncool* for jocks to exist, then we have a hope of turning this shit round.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As long as we keep spending money on kids who are good at sports , instead of those with discernable intellects , the country is fucked .
We need to make it * uncool * for jocks to exist , then we have a hope of turning this shit round .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As long as we keep spending money on kids who are good at sports, instead of those with discernable intellects, the country is fucked.
We need to make it *uncool* for jocks to exist, then we have a hope of turning this shit round.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527710</id>
	<title>I'd rather not have....</title>
	<author>sycodon</author>
	<datestamp>1261514760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Medical doctors writing the code to run highly sophisticated and/or potentially dangerous medical equipment....</p><p>Pilots writing fly-by-wire or  ATC systems....</p><p>MBAs writing ERP systems...</p><p>Etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Medical doctors writing the code to run highly sophisticated and/or potentially dangerous medical equipment....Pilots writing fly-by-wire or ATC systems....MBAs writing ERP systems...Etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Medical doctors writing the code to run highly sophisticated and/or potentially dangerous medical equipment....Pilots writing fly-by-wire or  ATC systems....MBAs writing ERP systems...Etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529674</id>
	<title>The US Economy needs to get rid of the MSM...</title>
	<author>AthleteMusicianNerd</author>
	<datestamp>1261479240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>who gets it into young kids heads that they should be like Britney Spears, or Michael Jordan.  These people are morons and should not be put on a pedestal.  I guess the redeeming part is that the media loves to prop them up, and then chop them down(Michael Jackson).</htmltext>
<tokenext>who gets it into young kids heads that they should be like Britney Spears , or Michael Jordan .
These people are morons and should not be put on a pedestal .
I guess the redeeming part is that the media loves to prop them up , and then chop them down ( Michael Jackson ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>who gets it into young kids heads that they should be like Britney Spears, or Michael Jordan.
These people are morons and should not be put on a pedestal.
I guess the redeeming part is that the media loves to prop them up, and then chop them down(Michael Jackson).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529196</id>
	<title>Re: national apprenticeship program</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261477140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>LOL unions, minimum wages, mandatory cost of living increases and living wages have killed guilds and apprentice programs. Apprentice programs are kinda like a draft. You have to discard your individuality and open your mind to the masters. You have to start from the bottom and work yourself up, build yourself up, and toughen yourself up. All these concepts are foreign to America's youth (and people who ridicule athletes and organized sports).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>LOL unions , minimum wages , mandatory cost of living increases and living wages have killed guilds and apprentice programs .
Apprentice programs are kinda like a draft .
You have to discard your individuality and open your mind to the masters .
You have to start from the bottom and work yourself up , build yourself up , and toughen yourself up .
All these concepts are foreign to America 's youth ( and people who ridicule athletes and organized sports ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>LOL unions, minimum wages, mandatory cost of living increases and living wages have killed guilds and apprentice programs.
Apprentice programs are kinda like a draft.
You have to discard your individuality and open your mind to the masters.
You have to start from the bottom and work yourself up, build yourself up, and toughen yourself up.
All these concepts are foreign to America's youth (and people who ridicule athletes and organized sports).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527224</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532548</id>
	<title>Re:Secretaries</title>
	<author>dangitman</author>
	<datestamp>1261502520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>...the best way to disseminate knowledge is to print it on an 8" x 11", un-editable, fixed document stuck in a binder... </p><p>We're teaching kids to use tools that don't work all that well for the media-rich environment we have today. Teach them to write a Facebook app or use a content creation tool...</p></div><p>I don't think the best way to deal with the problem is to substitute one retarded idea with another even more retarded idea. How about we teach them how to do useful things?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...the best way to disseminate knowledge is to print it on an 8 " x 11 " , un-editable , fixed document stuck in a binder... We 're teaching kids to use tools that do n't work all that well for the media-rich environment we have today .
Teach them to write a Facebook app or use a content creation tool...I do n't think the best way to deal with the problem is to substitute one retarded idea with another even more retarded idea .
How about we teach them how to do useful things ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...the best way to disseminate knowledge is to print it on an 8" x 11", un-editable, fixed document stuck in a binder... We're teaching kids to use tools that don't work all that well for the media-rich environment we have today.
Teach them to write a Facebook app or use a content creation tool...I don't think the best way to deal with the problem is to substitute one retarded idea with another even more retarded idea.
How about we teach them how to do useful things?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527366</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529420</id>
	<title>Dead Kennedy's "Jock-O-Rama" comes to mind...</title>
	<author>negated</author>
	<datestamp>1261478100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Jock-O-Rama"</p><p>You really like gorillas?<br>We've got just the pet for you<br>It's the way you're forced to act<br>To survive our schools</p><p>Make your whole life revolve around sports<br>Walk tough-don't act too smart<br>Be a mean machine<br>Then we'll let you get ahead</p><p>Jock-O-Rama-Save my soul<br>We're under the thumb of the Beef Patrol<br>The future of America is in their hands<br>Watch it roll over Niagara Falls<br>Pep rally in the holy temple<br>And you're forced to go<br>Masturbate en masse<br>With the favored religious cult<br>Cheerleaders yell-"Ra Ra Team"<br>From the locker room parades the prime beef<br>When archaeologists dig this up<br>They'll either laugh or cry</p><p>Jock-O-Rama-On the brain<br>Redneck-a-thon drivin' me insane<br>The future of America is in their hands<br>Watch it roll over Niagara Falls<br>Unzip that old time religion<br>On the almighty football field<br>Beerbellies of all ages<br>Come to watch the gladiators bleed<br>"Now boys, this game ain't played for fun<br>You're going out there to win<br>How d'ya win?<br>Get out there<br>And snap the other guy's knee!"</p><p>Beat 'em up! Beat 'em up!<br>Ra Ra Ra<br>Snap those spinal cords<br>Ha Ha Ha</p><p>The star quarterback lies injured<br>Unconscious on the football field<br>Looks like his neck's been broken<br>Seems to happen somewhere every year</p><p>His mom and dad clutch themselves and cry<br>Their favorite son will never walk again<br>Coach says, "That boy gave a hundred percent<br>What spirit<br>What a man"</p><p>But who cares?<br>Games over-Let's go get wasted man<br>To the 7-11, to the liquor store<br>Let's party all night and party some more</p><p>Another Trans-Am<br>Wrapped itself around a telephone pole<br>"I ain't drunk, officer<br>I just fell gettin' out of my car"</p><p>Don't worry about it, son<br>We were that way when we were young<br>You've got all the skills<br>To make a damn good businessman</p><p>Jock-O-Rama-that's the law<br>Come lick the butts of the Beef Patrol<br>If the future of America is handed to them<br>Watch it roll over Niagara Falls</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Jock-O-Rama " You really like gorillas ? We 've got just the pet for youIt 's the way you 're forced to actTo survive our schoolsMake your whole life revolve around sportsWalk tough-do n't act too smartBe a mean machineThen we 'll let you get aheadJock-O-Rama-Save my soulWe 're under the thumb of the Beef PatrolThe future of America is in their handsWatch it roll over Niagara FallsPep rally in the holy templeAnd you 're forced to goMasturbate en masseWith the favored religious cultCheerleaders yell- " Ra Ra Team " From the locker room parades the prime beefWhen archaeologists dig this upThey 'll either laugh or cryJock-O-Rama-On the brainRedneck-a-thon drivin ' me insaneThe future of America is in their handsWatch it roll over Niagara FallsUnzip that old time religionOn the almighty football fieldBeerbellies of all agesCome to watch the gladiators bleed " Now boys , this game ai n't played for funYou 're going out there to winHow d'ya win ? Get out thereAnd snap the other guy 's knee !
" Beat 'em up !
Beat 'em up ! Ra Ra RaSnap those spinal cordsHa Ha HaThe star quarterback lies injuredUnconscious on the football fieldLooks like his neck 's been brokenSeems to happen somewhere every yearHis mom and dad clutch themselves and cryTheir favorite son will never walk againCoach says , " That boy gave a hundred percentWhat spiritWhat a man " But who cares ? Games over-Let 's go get wasted manTo the 7-11 , to the liquor storeLet 's party all night and party some moreAnother Trans-AmWrapped itself around a telephone pole " I ai n't drunk , officerI just fell gettin ' out of my car " Do n't worry about it , sonWe were that way when we were youngYou 've got all the skillsTo make a damn good businessmanJock-O-Rama-that 's the lawCome lick the butts of the Beef PatrolIf the future of America is handed to themWatch it roll over Niagara Falls</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Jock-O-Rama"You really like gorillas?We've got just the pet for youIt's the way you're forced to actTo survive our schoolsMake your whole life revolve around sportsWalk tough-don't act too smartBe a mean machineThen we'll let you get aheadJock-O-Rama-Save my soulWe're under the thumb of the Beef PatrolThe future of America is in their handsWatch it roll over Niagara FallsPep rally in the holy templeAnd you're forced to goMasturbate en masseWith the favored religious cultCheerleaders yell-"Ra Ra Team"From the locker room parades the prime beefWhen archaeologists dig this upThey'll either laugh or cryJock-O-Rama-On the brainRedneck-a-thon drivin' me insaneThe future of America is in their handsWatch it roll over Niagara FallsUnzip that old time religionOn the almighty football fieldBeerbellies of all agesCome to watch the gladiators bleed"Now boys, this game ain't played for funYou're going out there to winHow d'ya win?Get out thereAnd snap the other guy's knee!
"Beat 'em up!
Beat 'em up!Ra Ra RaSnap those spinal cordsHa Ha HaThe star quarterback lies injuredUnconscious on the football fieldLooks like his neck's been brokenSeems to happen somewhere every yearHis mom and dad clutch themselves and cryTheir favorite son will never walk againCoach says, "That boy gave a hundred percentWhat spiritWhat a man"But who cares?Games over-Let's go get wasted manTo the 7-11, to the liquor storeLet's party all night and party some moreAnother Trans-AmWrapped itself around a telephone pole"I ain't drunk, officerI just fell gettin' out of my car"Don't worry about it, sonWe were that way when we were youngYou've got all the skillsTo make a damn good businessmanJock-O-Rama-that's the lawCome lick the butts of the Beef PatrolIf the future of America is handed to themWatch it roll over Niagara Falls</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527550</id>
	<title>A great idea, and challenging..</title>
	<author>SixDimensionalArray</author>
	<datestamp>1261514340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As someone who has tried to do exactly what this article suggests, I feel obligated to chime in and say that I think it's absolutely correct.  People with the ability to apply technology skills to business or societal needs of a particular discipline are extremely valuable.</p><p>For example, in my case, I combined healthcare knowledge, social science and information systems and now work in a very interesting and challenging segment of the healthcare industry.</p><p>I would point out that it is very challenging and can be difficult to focus one's study when you are trying to learn something technically oriented, like writing software in C++, and combine it with something else very different, like building construction, for example.  Some things simply take skill and raw ability, or a long time to learn.  There might be a lot of similarities in building software and building a building, but being an expert in both takes a while.  Still though, a person who can apply knowledge of software development (or even build or implement software) that makes the process of building a building more efficient is a good person to have around.</p><p>Perhaps, in other words, all this is saying is, having people who are cross-disciplinary and can apply their skills in more than one scenario is a good thing.  That's not much of a stretch of the imagination, in my opinion.  More skills are better than less, and people who can mix and match are helpful.</p><p>We must, however, also be leery of the "jack of all trades, master of none" issue.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As someone who has tried to do exactly what this article suggests , I feel obligated to chime in and say that I think it 's absolutely correct .
People with the ability to apply technology skills to business or societal needs of a particular discipline are extremely valuable.For example , in my case , I combined healthcare knowledge , social science and information systems and now work in a very interesting and challenging segment of the healthcare industry.I would point out that it is very challenging and can be difficult to focus one 's study when you are trying to learn something technically oriented , like writing software in C + + , and combine it with something else very different , like building construction , for example .
Some things simply take skill and raw ability , or a long time to learn .
There might be a lot of similarities in building software and building a building , but being an expert in both takes a while .
Still though , a person who can apply knowledge of software development ( or even build or implement software ) that makes the process of building a building more efficient is a good person to have around.Perhaps , in other words , all this is saying is , having people who are cross-disciplinary and can apply their skills in more than one scenario is a good thing .
That 's not much of a stretch of the imagination , in my opinion .
More skills are better than less , and people who can mix and match are helpful.We must , however , also be leery of the " jack of all trades , master of none " issue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As someone who has tried to do exactly what this article suggests, I feel obligated to chime in and say that I think it's absolutely correct.
People with the ability to apply technology skills to business or societal needs of a particular discipline are extremely valuable.For example, in my case, I combined healthcare knowledge, social science and information systems and now work in a very interesting and challenging segment of the healthcare industry.I would point out that it is very challenging and can be difficult to focus one's study when you are trying to learn something technically oriented, like writing software in C++, and combine it with something else very different, like building construction, for example.
Some things simply take skill and raw ability, or a long time to learn.
There might be a lot of similarities in building software and building a building, but being an expert in both takes a while.
Still though, a person who can apply knowledge of software development (or even build or implement software) that makes the process of building a building more efficient is a good person to have around.Perhaps, in other words, all this is saying is, having people who are cross-disciplinary and can apply their skills in more than one scenario is a good thing.
That's not much of a stretch of the imagination, in my opinion.
More skills are better than less, and people who can mix and match are helpful.We must, however, also be leery of the "jack of all trades, master of none" issue.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532774</id>
	<title>Re:Fear of Being Stereotyped? Really?</title>
	<author>Eli Gottlieb</author>
	<datestamp>1261505880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I disagree with you on one thing.  I think computing <i>is</i> a part of basic mathematics.  Or rather, mathematics is a part of basic computing<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I disagree with you on one thing .
I think computing is a part of basic mathematics .
Or rather , mathematics is a part of basic computing ; - ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I disagree with you on one thing.
I think computing is a part of basic mathematics.
Or rather, mathematics is a part of basic computing ;-).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527728</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529228</id>
	<title>What the F?</title>
	<author>SparkleMotion88</author>
	<datestamp>1261477200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Today, introductory courses in computer science are too often focused merely on teaching students to use software like word processing and spreadsheet programs, says Janice C. Cuny, a program director at the National Science Foundation</p></div></blockquote><p>

There are two possible realities associated with this statement:

</p><ul> <li>There are intro <b>computer science</b> courses out there in which students learn how to do word processing and spreadsheeting.</li><li>A program director at the NSF doesn't know the difference between courses on "computer science" and "business computer applications."</li></ul><p>

I don't know which reality is worse.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Today , introductory courses in computer science are too often focused merely on teaching students to use software like word processing and spreadsheet programs , says Janice C. Cuny , a program director at the National Science Foundation There are two possible realities associated with this statement : There are intro computer science courses out there in which students learn how to do word processing and spreadsheeting.A program director at the NSF does n't know the difference between courses on " computer science " and " business computer applications .
" I do n't know which reality is worse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Today, introductory courses in computer science are too often focused merely on teaching students to use software like word processing and spreadsheet programs, says Janice C. Cuny, a program director at the National Science Foundation

There are two possible realities associated with this statement:

 There are intro computer science courses out there in which students learn how to do word processing and spreadsheeting.A program director at the NSF doesn't know the difference between courses on "computer science" and "business computer applications.
"

I don't know which reality is worse.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529444</id>
	<title>High School Computing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261478220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was a "cool nerd" at the school linked below. The IT directors there are really changing education in regards to technology. The 1-to-1 program there is teaching students to use technology throughout each field of learning and learn where and when it's useful. Other schools should follow HC in their footsteps regarding technology and education. They use Macs primarily but they are teaching students how to use spreadsheets, not excel and so on. I wish this program was around when I was there though.</p><p>http://www.hollandchristian.org/1to1/program\_overview</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was a " cool nerd " at the school linked below .
The IT directors there are really changing education in regards to technology .
The 1-to-1 program there is teaching students to use technology throughout each field of learning and learn where and when it 's useful .
Other schools should follow HC in their footsteps regarding technology and education .
They use Macs primarily but they are teaching students how to use spreadsheets , not excel and so on .
I wish this program was around when I was there though.http : //www.hollandchristian.org/1to1/program \ _overview</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was a "cool nerd" at the school linked below.
The IT directors there are really changing education in regards to technology.
The 1-to-1 program there is teaching students to use technology throughout each field of learning and learn where and when it's useful.
Other schools should follow HC in their footsteps regarding technology and education.
They use Macs primarily but they are teaching students how to use spreadsheets, not excel and so on.
I wish this program was around when I was there though.http://www.hollandchristian.org/1to1/program\_overview</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527850</id>
	<title>Re:The Onus Should Not Be on the Nerds</title>
	<author>DeadDecoy</author>
	<datestamp>1261515180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm not quite sure of the direction you're taking with that statement:<p><div class="quote"><p>The mean annual incomes of professionals in the fields of computer science and football might call into question the "monetarily rewarding" part of that statement.</p></div><p>The average monetary reward in professional football is probably greater than the average in computer science. However, there are probably more people making a living through computer science, or some computer oriented venture than through football. Also, the incomes of the super successful in computer science can outstrip the super successful in football by a fair margin. I think we just hear more about how much money a football player is making versus an engineer because for the former, it turns into a dick measuring contest and for the latter, building cool things takes that place. I'm sure if someone solved the riemann hypothesis, he or she would be the most impressive member of the scientific community. That being said, I know of a few professors who get multi-million dollar grants which gets spent on research instead of fancy cars.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not quite sure of the direction you 're taking with that statement : The mean annual incomes of professionals in the fields of computer science and football might call into question the " monetarily rewarding " part of that statement.The average monetary reward in professional football is probably greater than the average in computer science .
However , there are probably more people making a living through computer science , or some computer oriented venture than through football .
Also , the incomes of the super successful in computer science can outstrip the super successful in football by a fair margin .
I think we just hear more about how much money a football player is making versus an engineer because for the former , it turns into a dick measuring contest and for the latter , building cool things takes that place .
I 'm sure if someone solved the riemann hypothesis , he or she would be the most impressive member of the scientific community .
That being said , I know of a few professors who get multi-million dollar grants which gets spent on research instead of fancy cars .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not quite sure of the direction you're taking with that statement:The mean annual incomes of professionals in the fields of computer science and football might call into question the "monetarily rewarding" part of that statement.The average monetary reward in professional football is probably greater than the average in computer science.
However, there are probably more people making a living through computer science, or some computer oriented venture than through football.
Also, the incomes of the super successful in computer science can outstrip the super successful in football by a fair margin.
I think we just hear more about how much money a football player is making versus an engineer because for the former, it turns into a dick measuring contest and for the latter, building cool things takes that place.
I'm sure if someone solved the riemann hypothesis, he or she would be the most impressive member of the scientific community.
That being said, I know of a few professors who get multi-million dollar grants which gets spent on research instead of fancy cars.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527398</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529124</id>
	<title>Horrible Idea</title>
	<author>elnyka</author>
	<datestamp>1261476840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Steve Lohr writes in the NY Times that the country needs more 'cool' nerds &mdash; professionals with hybrid careers that combine computing with other fields like medicine, art, or journalism.</p></div><p>Bad idea (not unless we are talking about people who have a BS/BA degree in a technical field pursuing another BS/BA degree - or even a MS - in another technical field. Now, <b>THAT'S A HYBRID CAREER</b>. We already have a problem with watered down CompSci and MIS programs churning chumps who can't code for shit themselves out of a wet paper bag. CompSci, MIS, Software Development and IT, these are fields that call for people that are domain experts and specialist, not watered down hobbyists with superficial and inadequate training.</p><p>

It is quite telling of our society that when facing with a shortage of scientific/engineering talent, the solution is to make it more "cool" as opposed to raising the scholastic expectations of kids. As if "cool" makes up for the grey matter required to be a (good) software developer. Either the author thinks software disciplines are shallow enough that they can be weaved in with a medicine, journalist or even an arts curriculum (an art curriculum takes quite a lot of work to get through.) Either that, or he thinks these other disciplines can be watered down so as to allow someone to be graduate in both (notice that I say "graduate", not "be sufficiently competent.")</p><p>

How come you don't see that type of mentality in India, China or, say Eastern Europe? You want kids to be interested in hard sciences (not just software disciplines)? Then  raise the bar and academic rigor starting from 2nd grade all the way to 12th, where the objective is to learn and not simply to pass. You don't solve an educational deficiency by painting "cool" all over it.</p><p>

On another note, I stopped reading the article when I hit this:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Today, introductory courses in computer science are too often focused merely on teaching students to use software like word processing and spreadsheet programs, said Janice C. Cuny, a program director at the National Science Foundation.</p></div><p>Say fucking what? I know that Computer Science curriculum in most universities have been watered down into Java/C# schools, but give me a fucking break. Either the journalist is misquoting Cuny, or she actually said - and I quote - that <i>introductory courses in computer science are too focused on software like word processing and spreadsheet programs</i>. If it's the later, someone kicks her out of the NSF. There is no "science" in that kind of stupid remark.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Steve Lohr writes in the NY Times that the country needs more 'cool ' nerds    professionals with hybrid careers that combine computing with other fields like medicine , art , or journalism.Bad idea ( not unless we are talking about people who have a BS/BA degree in a technical field pursuing another BS/BA degree - or even a MS - in another technical field .
Now , THAT 'S A HYBRID CAREER .
We already have a problem with watered down CompSci and MIS programs churning chumps who ca n't code for shit themselves out of a wet paper bag .
CompSci , MIS , Software Development and IT , these are fields that call for people that are domain experts and specialist , not watered down hobbyists with superficial and inadequate training .
It is quite telling of our society that when facing with a shortage of scientific/engineering talent , the solution is to make it more " cool " as opposed to raising the scholastic expectations of kids .
As if " cool " makes up for the grey matter required to be a ( good ) software developer .
Either the author thinks software disciplines are shallow enough that they can be weaved in with a medicine , journalist or even an arts curriculum ( an art curriculum takes quite a lot of work to get through .
) Either that , or he thinks these other disciplines can be watered down so as to allow someone to be graduate in both ( notice that I say " graduate " , not " be sufficiently competent .
" ) How come you do n't see that type of mentality in India , China or , say Eastern Europe ?
You want kids to be interested in hard sciences ( not just software disciplines ) ?
Then raise the bar and academic rigor starting from 2nd grade all the way to 12th , where the objective is to learn and not simply to pass .
You do n't solve an educational deficiency by painting " cool " all over it .
On another note , I stopped reading the article when I hit this : Today , introductory courses in computer science are too often focused merely on teaching students to use software like word processing and spreadsheet programs , said Janice C. Cuny , a program director at the National Science Foundation.Say fucking what ?
I know that Computer Science curriculum in most universities have been watered down into Java/C # schools , but give me a fucking break .
Either the journalist is misquoting Cuny , or she actually said - and I quote - that introductory courses in computer science are too focused on software like word processing and spreadsheet programs .
If it 's the later , someone kicks her out of the NSF .
There is no " science " in that kind of stupid remark .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Steve Lohr writes in the NY Times that the country needs more 'cool' nerds — professionals with hybrid careers that combine computing with other fields like medicine, art, or journalism.Bad idea (not unless we are talking about people who have a BS/BA degree in a technical field pursuing another BS/BA degree - or even a MS - in another technical field.
Now, THAT'S A HYBRID CAREER.
We already have a problem with watered down CompSci and MIS programs churning chumps who can't code for shit themselves out of a wet paper bag.
CompSci, MIS, Software Development and IT, these are fields that call for people that are domain experts and specialist, not watered down hobbyists with superficial and inadequate training.
It is quite telling of our society that when facing with a shortage of scientific/engineering talent, the solution is to make it more "cool" as opposed to raising the scholastic expectations of kids.
As if "cool" makes up for the grey matter required to be a (good) software developer.
Either the author thinks software disciplines are shallow enough that they can be weaved in with a medicine, journalist or even an arts curriculum (an art curriculum takes quite a lot of work to get through.
) Either that, or he thinks these other disciplines can be watered down so as to allow someone to be graduate in both (notice that I say "graduate", not "be sufficiently competent.
")

How come you don't see that type of mentality in India, China or, say Eastern Europe?
You want kids to be interested in hard sciences (not just software disciplines)?
Then  raise the bar and academic rigor starting from 2nd grade all the way to 12th, where the objective is to learn and not simply to pass.
You don't solve an educational deficiency by painting "cool" all over it.
On another note, I stopped reading the article when I hit this:Today, introductory courses in computer science are too often focused merely on teaching students to use software like word processing and spreadsheet programs, said Janice C. Cuny, a program director at the National Science Foundation.Say fucking what?
I know that Computer Science curriculum in most universities have been watered down into Java/C# schools, but give me a fucking break.
Either the journalist is misquoting Cuny, or she actually said - and I quote - that introductory courses in computer science are too focused on software like word processing and spreadsheet programs.
If it's the later, someone kicks her out of the NSF.
There is no "science" in that kind of stupid remark.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528066</id>
	<title>Re:Affairs</title>
	<author>Monkeedude1212</author>
	<datestamp>1261472700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's quite obvious from Steve Ballmer's Keynotes that he does drugs. Why hasn't anyone made him take a test and make the failure of such test a media blitz?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's quite obvious from Steve Ballmer 's Keynotes that he does drugs .
Why has n't anyone made him take a test and make the failure of such test a media blitz ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's quite obvious from Steve Ballmer's Keynotes that he does drugs.
Why hasn't anyone made him take a test and make the failure of such test a media blitz?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527504</id>
	<title>Not enough?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261514160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There aren't enough nerds?  You mean that you don't want to pay what nerds charge for what they do.</p><p>There's plenty of us out there...  Enough that many are unemployed.  Businesses just want more nerds on the field so they can pick better ones and pay them less.</p><p>By that same token, I declare that there are too many:  CEOs, mechanics, doctors, etc etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are n't enough nerds ?
You mean that you do n't want to pay what nerds charge for what they do.There 's plenty of us out there... Enough that many are unemployed .
Businesses just want more nerds on the field so they can pick better ones and pay them less.By that same token , I declare that there are too many : CEOs , mechanics , doctors , etc etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There aren't enough nerds?
You mean that you don't want to pay what nerds charge for what they do.There's plenty of us out there...  Enough that many are unemployed.
Businesses just want more nerds on the field so they can pick better ones and pay them less.By that same token, I declare that there are too many:  CEOs, mechanics, doctors, etc etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527966</id>
	<title>Re:The Onus Should Not Be on the Nerds</title>
	<author>xirusmom</author>
	<datestamp>1261472400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Even if income were the only consideration...
The mean annual incomes is not a very good comparison, because you need to consider the actual chances of getting a job in the field. His point was: how many athletes can  actually make a living from the sport only? And do you really think your kid is one of them?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Even if income were the only consideration.. . The mean annual incomes is not a very good comparison , because you need to consider the actual chances of getting a job in the field .
His point was : how many athletes can actually make a living from the sport only ?
And do you really think your kid is one of them ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even if income were the only consideration...
The mean annual incomes is not a very good comparison, because you need to consider the actual chances of getting a job in the field.
His point was: how many athletes can  actually make a living from the sport only?
And do you really think your kid is one of them?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527398</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527368</id>
	<title>Media Branding</title>
	<author>decipher\_saint</author>
	<datestamp>1261513740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about this, stop calling people who use computers to get things done as "nerds" ("geeks", "techies", etc).</p><p>Look at any magazine or television commercial, you think all that crap was hand carved out of stone and painted with the tears of virgins? I guarantee a computer was used at some point or another in the creative development behind it. Hell, music has been constantly fusing with new technology for ages, was Les Paul a "nerd"?</p><p>Technology, computers especially, penetrated society long ago, the only thing that creates this "us &amp; them" rift is constant stereotype re-enforcement through the media.</p><p>Now, if you'll excuse me I have to go re-alphabetize my D&amp;D collection while being bad at sports, good day to you sir!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about this , stop calling people who use computers to get things done as " nerds " ( " geeks " , " techies " , etc ) .Look at any magazine or television commercial , you think all that crap was hand carved out of stone and painted with the tears of virgins ?
I guarantee a computer was used at some point or another in the creative development behind it .
Hell , music has been constantly fusing with new technology for ages , was Les Paul a " nerd " ? Technology , computers especially , penetrated society long ago , the only thing that creates this " us &amp; them " rift is constant stereotype re-enforcement through the media.Now , if you 'll excuse me I have to go re-alphabetize my D&amp;D collection while being bad at sports , good day to you sir !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about this, stop calling people who use computers to get things done as "nerds" ("geeks", "techies", etc).Look at any magazine or television commercial, you think all that crap was hand carved out of stone and painted with the tears of virgins?
I guarantee a computer was used at some point or another in the creative development behind it.
Hell, music has been constantly fusing with new technology for ages, was Les Paul a "nerd"?Technology, computers especially, penetrated society long ago, the only thing that creates this "us &amp; them" rift is constant stereotype re-enforcement through the media.Now, if you'll excuse me I have to go re-alphabetize my D&amp;D collection while being bad at sports, good day to you sir!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529052</id>
	<title>Hey!  I resemble that remark!</title>
	<author>Bruzer</author>
	<datestamp>1261476540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; "<i><nobr> <wbr></nobr><b>...if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code.</b></i> "</p><p>I resemble that remark!</p><p>As I read the article, I am currently in the basement of a large computer company writing code.</p><p>Our basements is not so bad, they light them up with artificial lights.  Sometimes when I leave the building the sun hurts my eyes.</p><p>Does this mean there are Software Engineers that do <b>*not*</b> program in the basement?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... <b>Absurd!</b></p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; " ...if you pursue computer science , you will be stuck in a basement , writing code .
" I resemble that remark ! As I read the article , I am currently in the basement of a large computer company writing code.Our basements is not so bad , they light them up with artificial lights .
Sometimes when I leave the building the sun hurts my eyes.Does this mean there are Software Engineers that do * not * program in the basement ?
... Absurd !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; " ...if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code.
"I resemble that remark!As I read the article, I am currently in the basement of a large computer company writing code.Our basements is not so bad, they light them up with artificial lights.
Sometimes when I leave the building the sun hurts my eyes.Does this mean there are Software Engineers that do *not* program in the basement?
... Absurd!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529144</id>
	<title>Humans need branding.</title>
	<author>Bragador</author>
	<datestamp>1261476900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We are a social animal. We have this need to be part of a group and we also tend to try to categorize others so that we can have a general idea of who they are.</p><p>The guy likes sports? Jock. Jocks are supposed to act in a certain way so I suppose he will too. That's how humans think.</p><p>That's how it works.</p><p>And people don't prefer jocks to nerds. People like LEADERS. Jocks tend to become popular and lead groups, that's why they are "cool".</p><p>If nerds had a winning and outgoing attitude like the quarterbacks, everyone who want to be a nerd.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We are a social animal .
We have this need to be part of a group and we also tend to try to categorize others so that we can have a general idea of who they are.The guy likes sports ?
Jock. Jocks are supposed to act in a certain way so I suppose he will too .
That 's how humans think.That 's how it works.And people do n't prefer jocks to nerds .
People like LEADERS .
Jocks tend to become popular and lead groups , that 's why they are " cool " .If nerds had a winning and outgoing attitude like the quarterbacks , everyone who want to be a nerd .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We are a social animal.
We have this need to be part of a group and we also tend to try to categorize others so that we can have a general idea of who they are.The guy likes sports?
Jock. Jocks are supposed to act in a certain way so I suppose he will too.
That's how humans think.That's how it works.And people don't prefer jocks to nerds.
People like LEADERS.
Jocks tend to become popular and lead groups, that's why they are "cool".If nerds had a winning and outgoing attitude like the quarterbacks, everyone who want to be a nerd.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527368</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527884</id>
	<title>Re:The Onus Should Not Be on the Nerds</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261515300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For the most part, the macho guy who bullies computer nerds gets the girl.  All other cultural manifestations proceed from there.</p><p>Don't believe me.  Really!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For the most part , the macho guy who bullies computer nerds gets the girl .
All other cultural manifestations proceed from there.Do n't believe me .
Really ! : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For the most part, the macho guy who bullies computer nerds gets the girl.
All other cultural manifestations proceed from there.Don't believe me.
Really! :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532964</id>
	<title>Re:idea</title>
	<author>mmortal03</author>
	<datestamp>1261508580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The closest the tech industry has come to having what I think is truly needed - some form of standardized, nationwide apprenticeships/training programs - has been the certification industry, and the training in that industry seems to be severely wanting in consistency, quality, and price point. What we may need are more widespread actual IT firms, whose jobs are specific-to-IT, i.e. all they do is IT consulting/support/programming for other companies, instead of having this existence of all these IT sub-departments within larger businesses where there is no real conception of how to train IT workers for what they need, or even what to appropriately pay us for the work we do.  We need more IT firms around the country willing and capable to hire graduates right out of school and then train us in-house.</p><p>Engineering firms, architectural firms, and law firms all do this, and it is a part of all medical school curricula to do training in a real world, hospital setting.  Why doesn't IT do this?  The only immediate reason I can come up with as to why the IT profession doesn't do something similar is that it is a much younger industry than these other professions and is still working the standards and kinks out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The closest the tech industry has come to having what I think is truly needed - some form of standardized , nationwide apprenticeships/training programs - has been the certification industry , and the training in that industry seems to be severely wanting in consistency , quality , and price point .
What we may need are more widespread actual IT firms , whose jobs are specific-to-IT , i.e .
all they do is IT consulting/support/programming for other companies , instead of having this existence of all these IT sub-departments within larger businesses where there is no real conception of how to train IT workers for what they need , or even what to appropriately pay us for the work we do .
We need more IT firms around the country willing and capable to hire graduates right out of school and then train us in-house.Engineering firms , architectural firms , and law firms all do this , and it is a part of all medical school curricula to do training in a real world , hospital setting .
Why does n't IT do this ?
The only immediate reason I can come up with as to why the IT profession does n't do something similar is that it is a much younger industry than these other professions and is still working the standards and kinks out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The closest the tech industry has come to having what I think is truly needed - some form of standardized, nationwide apprenticeships/training programs - has been the certification industry, and the training in that industry seems to be severely wanting in consistency, quality, and price point.
What we may need are more widespread actual IT firms, whose jobs are specific-to-IT, i.e.
all they do is IT consulting/support/programming for other companies, instead of having this existence of all these IT sub-departments within larger businesses where there is no real conception of how to train IT workers for what they need, or even what to appropriately pay us for the work we do.
We need more IT firms around the country willing and capable to hire graduates right out of school and then train us in-house.Engineering firms, architectural firms, and law firms all do this, and it is a part of all medical school curricula to do training in a real world, hospital setting.
Why doesn't IT do this?
The only immediate reason I can come up with as to why the IT profession doesn't do something similar is that it is a much younger industry than these other professions and is still working the standards and kinks out.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527224</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527684</id>
	<title>Re:The Onus Should Not Be on the Nerds</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261514700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That seems a bit red herring to me. Why isn't there a bigger interest in computers? Football, obviously.<br> <br>I understand the use of your example, but here's the problem: Football is just entertainment. It's an out of school sport, and the teachers at my old high school (I graduated last year, if anyone was wondering) didn't let the players get any slack; any more for the kids who spent their night watching TV or running around the lake. This was certainly not the norm, but it was a breath of fresh air after middle school.<br> <br>The reason why a lot of kids at my high school hated technology was that it hated them. Their only interaction with computers was a plethora of broken, buggy, useless Windows XP machines with a haphazard security system and more oddities and crashes than the machines of your nightmares. (Oh, and that was considered the "good" lab - the bad lab had old Mac OS 9 computers that could barely run Word.) Now throw some kids in a basic computers class and watch the frustration stream across their faces. No wonder they thought that those of us who knew how those bastards worked were magical wizards - in a sense, we were. <br> <br>I actually booted up a LiveCD of Fedora once to keep myself sane. The admin at the time wouldn't let me back on the machines after than (until he retired).</htmltext>
<tokenext>That seems a bit red herring to me .
Why is n't there a bigger interest in computers ?
Football , obviously .
I understand the use of your example , but here 's the problem : Football is just entertainment .
It 's an out of school sport , and the teachers at my old high school ( I graduated last year , if anyone was wondering ) did n't let the players get any slack ; any more for the kids who spent their night watching TV or running around the lake .
This was certainly not the norm , but it was a breath of fresh air after middle school .
The reason why a lot of kids at my high school hated technology was that it hated them .
Their only interaction with computers was a plethora of broken , buggy , useless Windows XP machines with a haphazard security system and more oddities and crashes than the machines of your nightmares .
( Oh , and that was considered the " good " lab - the bad lab had old Mac OS 9 computers that could barely run Word .
) Now throw some kids in a basic computers class and watch the frustration stream across their faces .
No wonder they thought that those of us who knew how those bastards worked were magical wizards - in a sense , we were .
I actually booted up a LiveCD of Fedora once to keep myself sane .
The admin at the time would n't let me back on the machines after than ( until he retired ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That seems a bit red herring to me.
Why isn't there a bigger interest in computers?
Football, obviously.
I understand the use of your example, but here's the problem: Football is just entertainment.
It's an out of school sport, and the teachers at my old high school (I graduated last year, if anyone was wondering) didn't let the players get any slack; any more for the kids who spent their night watching TV or running around the lake.
This was certainly not the norm, but it was a breath of fresh air after middle school.
The reason why a lot of kids at my high school hated technology was that it hated them.
Their only interaction with computers was a plethora of broken, buggy, useless Windows XP machines with a haphazard security system and more oddities and crashes than the machines of your nightmares.
(Oh, and that was considered the "good" lab - the bad lab had old Mac OS 9 computers that could barely run Word.
) Now throw some kids in a basic computers class and watch the frustration stream across their faces.
No wonder they thought that those of us who knew how those bastards worked were magical wizards - in a sense, we were.
I actually booted up a LiveCD of Fedora once to keep myself sane.
The admin at the time wouldn't let me back on the machines after than (until he retired).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532758</id>
	<title>Re:The Onus Should Not Be on the Nerds</title>
	<author>ClosedSource</author>
	<datestamp>1261505580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"It's easier to give them $3000 in entertainment gifts per year (you know<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... ipod, xbox, games, car, etc) than to take the effort to try to influence their priorities."</p><p>What fantasy world are you living in? Sounds suspiciously like straw parents taken right from the right-wing playbook.</p><p>If you want to blame parents, fine, but at least make your anecdotes  believable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" It 's easier to give them $ 3000 in entertainment gifts per year ( you know .... ipod , xbox , games , car , etc ) than to take the effort to try to influence their priorities .
" What fantasy world are you living in ?
Sounds suspiciously like straw parents taken right from the right-wing playbook.If you want to blame parents , fine , but at least make your anecdotes believable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"It's easier to give them $3000 in entertainment gifts per year (you know .... ipod, xbox, games, car, etc) than to take the effort to try to influence their priorities.
"What fantasy world are you living in?
Sounds suspiciously like straw parents taken right from the right-wing playbook.If you want to blame parents, fine, but at least make your anecdotes  believable.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527880</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528572</id>
	<title>Re:That's me!</title>
	<author>midicase</author>
	<datestamp>1261474680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Our CEO refuses to have an IT department.   While it can temporarily detract from normal job duties, it does force you to learn how to do IT work.   Every employee learns how manage their Linux workstation with very little hand-holding.    The primary benefit seems to be that if one finds a problem, there is no waiting for someone else to fix it, you roll up your sleeves and get it done yourself.</p><p>Having a "go-to" Linux guru that many cite at<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. is an alien concept here.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Our CEO refuses to have an IT department .
While it can temporarily detract from normal job duties , it does force you to learn how to do IT work .
Every employee learns how manage their Linux workstation with very little hand-holding .
The primary benefit seems to be that if one finds a problem , there is no waiting for someone else to fix it , you roll up your sleeves and get it done yourself.Having a " go-to " Linux guru that many cite at / .
is an alien concept here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Our CEO refuses to have an IT department.
While it can temporarily detract from normal job duties, it does force you to learn how to do IT work.
Every employee learns how manage their Linux workstation with very little hand-holding.
The primary benefit seems to be that if one finds a problem, there is no waiting for someone else to fix it, you roll up your sleeves and get it done yourself.Having a "go-to" Linux guru that many cite at /.
is an alien concept here.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527468</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528764</id>
	<title>Re:That's me!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261475580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Happy to see somewhere out there someone believes in the cool nerds.  (i'm also the gay one, and at work that means i'm triple times fabulous<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;).  I no longer work in IT but i work in regulatory compliance.  Where do i find still my undergrad degree in computing sciences useful?  EVERYWHERE and EVERY DAY!!!  I believe the biggest mistake of this century is for businesses to isolate their "tech" employees to an IT department.  This structure ensures that all computing knowledge is isolated from the rest of the business that could use it to increase productivity!  I've written countless scripts, reports and other programs to perform simple otherwise labrous tasks and free business workers to focus on important things.  People think i'm some sort of miracle worker.  The reality is that i'm simply an anomaly at the firm - a person with a computing background who works in the business side.  There needs to be more of us - many more!!  When i'm CEO - there will be people with computer science backgrounds positioned everywhere in the company.  They are the key to connecting the business with technology needs and making business far more efficient.  An "IT" department, no matter how good, isn't as good as mixing knowledge of technology in the business side directly.</p></div><p>Meh, I'm not so sure...</p><p>Your post needs more gay.</p><p>But thanks for the pretty rainbows that my monitor just shat all over my desk.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Happy to see somewhere out there someone believes in the cool nerds .
( i 'm also the gay one , and at work that means i 'm triple times fabulous ; ) .
I no longer work in IT but i work in regulatory compliance .
Where do i find still my undergrad degree in computing sciences useful ?
EVERYWHERE and EVERY DAY ! ! !
I believe the biggest mistake of this century is for businesses to isolate their " tech " employees to an IT department .
This structure ensures that all computing knowledge is isolated from the rest of the business that could use it to increase productivity !
I 've written countless scripts , reports and other programs to perform simple otherwise labrous tasks and free business workers to focus on important things .
People think i 'm some sort of miracle worker .
The reality is that i 'm simply an anomaly at the firm - a person with a computing background who works in the business side .
There needs to be more of us - many more ! !
When i 'm CEO - there will be people with computer science backgrounds positioned everywhere in the company .
They are the key to connecting the business with technology needs and making business far more efficient .
An " IT " department , no matter how good , is n't as good as mixing knowledge of technology in the business side directly.Meh , I 'm not so sure...Your post needs more gay.But thanks for the pretty rainbows that my monitor just shat all over my desk .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Happy to see somewhere out there someone believes in the cool nerds.
(i'm also the gay one, and at work that means i'm triple times fabulous ;).
I no longer work in IT but i work in regulatory compliance.
Where do i find still my undergrad degree in computing sciences useful?
EVERYWHERE and EVERY DAY!!!
I believe the biggest mistake of this century is for businesses to isolate their "tech" employees to an IT department.
This structure ensures that all computing knowledge is isolated from the rest of the business that could use it to increase productivity!
I've written countless scripts, reports and other programs to perform simple otherwise labrous tasks and free business workers to focus on important things.
People think i'm some sort of miracle worker.
The reality is that i'm simply an anomaly at the firm - a person with a computing background who works in the business side.
There needs to be more of us - many more!!
When i'm CEO - there will be people with computer science backgrounds positioned everywhere in the company.
They are the key to connecting the business with technology needs and making business far more efficient.
An "IT" department, no matter how good, isn't as good as mixing knowledge of technology in the business side directly.Meh, I'm not so sure...Your post needs more gay.But thanks for the pretty rainbows that my monitor just shat all over my desk.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527468</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529832</id>
	<title>delightful insight!</title>
	<author>nimbius</author>
	<datestamp>1261479900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>its a cultural issue, america values apple pie, nascar, football, git-r-dun and simple instructions for happier family life.  in highschool i was picked last for everything and ostracised because i was in the AV club and very avid with computers.  In a class with model m keyboards i was actually insisted upon to type slower because the noise from my keyboard was disruptive.  later in life, In the business world, i dont get invited to the thursday nite poker tournament or the group bowling because im still the nerd.  I dont get invited to the potlucks or the luncheons because im "part of IT" and somehow dont count.  People are only my friend when they need me to help them with their sons laptop, or they have a question about their home wireless.  I am suddenly a great guy to be around when their mouse stops working and they dont want to fight through remedy tickets to get a new one.<br> <br>
I am a nerd, but im a bitter one. fuck these mouthbreathing game-day retards and their culture of peanuts, circuses, and prime time sitcoms.  if I am never their pick, so be it, but stop insisting to yourself that im too stupid to realize when you're exploiting me.</htmltext>
<tokenext>its a cultural issue , america values apple pie , nascar , football , git-r-dun and simple instructions for happier family life .
in highschool i was picked last for everything and ostracised because i was in the AV club and very avid with computers .
In a class with model m keyboards i was actually insisted upon to type slower because the noise from my keyboard was disruptive .
later in life , In the business world , i dont get invited to the thursday nite poker tournament or the group bowling because im still the nerd .
I dont get invited to the potlucks or the luncheons because im " part of IT " and somehow dont count .
People are only my friend when they need me to help them with their sons laptop , or they have a question about their home wireless .
I am suddenly a great guy to be around when their mouse stops working and they dont want to fight through remedy tickets to get a new one .
I am a nerd , but im a bitter one .
fuck these mouthbreathing game-day retards and their culture of peanuts , circuses , and prime time sitcoms .
if I am never their pick , so be it , but stop insisting to yourself that im too stupid to realize when you 're exploiting me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>its a cultural issue, america values apple pie, nascar, football, git-r-dun and simple instructions for happier family life.
in highschool i was picked last for everything and ostracised because i was in the AV club and very avid with computers.
In a class with model m keyboards i was actually insisted upon to type slower because the noise from my keyboard was disruptive.
later in life, In the business world, i dont get invited to the thursday nite poker tournament or the group bowling because im still the nerd.
I dont get invited to the potlucks or the luncheons because im "part of IT" and somehow dont count.
People are only my friend when they need me to help them with their sons laptop, or they have a question about their home wireless.
I am suddenly a great guy to be around when their mouse stops working and they dont want to fight through remedy tickets to get a new one.
I am a nerd, but im a bitter one.
fuck these mouthbreathing game-day retards and their culture of peanuts, circuses, and prime time sitcoms.
if I am never their pick, so be it, but stop insisting to yourself that im too stupid to realize when you're exploiting me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527716</id>
	<title>Re:The Onus Should Not Be on the Nerds</title>
	<author>thisnamestoolong</author>
	<datestamp>1261514760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><blockquote><div><p>Computer science is far more practical/pragmatic (and really productive for society as a whole) and monetarily rewarding later in life than football.</p></div></blockquote><p>The mean annual incomes of professionals in the fields of computer science and football might call into question the "monetarily rewarding" part of that statement.</p></div><p>

Logic -- You're doing it wrong.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Computer science is far more practical/pragmatic ( and really productive for society as a whole ) and monetarily rewarding later in life than football.The mean annual incomes of professionals in the fields of computer science and football might call into question the " monetarily rewarding " part of that statement .
Logic -- You 're doing it wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Computer science is far more practical/pragmatic (and really productive for society as a whole) and monetarily rewarding later in life than football.The mean annual incomes of professionals in the fields of computer science and football might call into question the "monetarily rewarding" part of that statement.
Logic -- You're doing it wrong.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527398</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30534922</id>
	<title>Re:We have enough.</title>
	<author>sowth</author>
	<datestamp>1259767680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It seems to me with everything being run by large corporations, you are essentially living in a <a href="http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/manorialism.htm" title="middle-ages.org.uk">manorial type society</a> [middle-ages.org.uk]. You plead fealty to your lords, and they give you wages in return.

</p><p>The problem with this is it you create a massive top-down hierarchy where you are totally dependent upon the honesty of those at the top. If anyone in the management structure wants to siphon most of the wealth into their own pockets, there isn't much to stop them except the manager above. At the top, there is no one above, so they don't have any one person to stop them.

</p><p>This is where communism fails. You can't really depend upon people to be that honest, plus most normal people don't want that level of responsibility, so only people who want to take advantage of the situation strive for the top.

</p><p>It seems to me the only obvious solution would be to just get out of their game. Find a way to run your own small business, so if one of your clients is screwing you, you can just drop them when you can. This has more risk (you don't get a steady paycheck) and requires more effort, but if you can do it, in the long term it could be the best way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It seems to me with everything being run by large corporations , you are essentially living in a manorial type society [ middle-ages.org.uk ] .
You plead fealty to your lords , and they give you wages in return .
The problem with this is it you create a massive top-down hierarchy where you are totally dependent upon the honesty of those at the top .
If anyone in the management structure wants to siphon most of the wealth into their own pockets , there is n't much to stop them except the manager above .
At the top , there is no one above , so they do n't have any one person to stop them .
This is where communism fails .
You ca n't really depend upon people to be that honest , plus most normal people do n't want that level of responsibility , so only people who want to take advantage of the situation strive for the top .
It seems to me the only obvious solution would be to just get out of their game .
Find a way to run your own small business , so if one of your clients is screwing you , you can just drop them when you can .
This has more risk ( you do n't get a steady paycheck ) and requires more effort , but if you can do it , in the long term it could be the best way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It seems to me with everything being run by large corporations, you are essentially living in a manorial type society [middle-ages.org.uk].
You plead fealty to your lords, and they give you wages in return.
The problem with this is it you create a massive top-down hierarchy where you are totally dependent upon the honesty of those at the top.
If anyone in the management structure wants to siphon most of the wealth into their own pockets, there isn't much to stop them except the manager above.
At the top, there is no one above, so they don't have any one person to stop them.
This is where communism fails.
You can't really depend upon people to be that honest, plus most normal people don't want that level of responsibility, so only people who want to take advantage of the situation strive for the top.
It seems to me the only obvious solution would be to just get out of their game.
Find a way to run your own small business, so if one of your clients is screwing you, you can just drop them when you can.
This has more risk (you don't get a steady paycheck) and requires more effort, but if you can do it, in the long term it could be the best way.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527346</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528002</id>
	<title>Re:Affairs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261472460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Eric S. Raymond, his wife, and their girlfriend are polygamists. Does that count?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Eric S. Raymond , his wife , and their girlfriend are polygamists .
Does that count ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Eric S. Raymond, his wife, and their girlfriend are polygamists.
Does that count?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527440</id>
	<title>Re:The Onus Should Not Be on the Nerds</title>
	<author>countSudoku()</author>
	<datestamp>1261513980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>OMFG, how dare you hit the nail on the head instead of writing a throwaway line to be frist psot!  Actually, I am writing to complain because you have just given away some of the points in my own idiom on how to raise my daughter in a world filled with stupid people hell bent on being "football heros|rock stars|famous actors" instead of what makes us more effective, happy people; learning a useful skill and living a normal life.  This goes against the Ralph Cramden ethic of anything to get rich quick, but it's the "secret" to what has made my life and career so enjoyable.  This is what I want for my little bot, only with more STEM and a degree.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>OMFG , how dare you hit the nail on the head instead of writing a throwaway line to be frist psot !
Actually , I am writing to complain because you have just given away some of the points in my own idiom on how to raise my daughter in a world filled with stupid people hell bent on being " football heros | rock stars | famous actors " instead of what makes us more effective , happy people ; learning a useful skill and living a normal life .
This goes against the Ralph Cramden ethic of anything to get rich quick , but it 's the " secret " to what has made my life and career so enjoyable .
This is what I want for my little bot , only with more STEM and a degree .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OMFG, how dare you hit the nail on the head instead of writing a throwaway line to be frist psot!
Actually, I am writing to complain because you have just given away some of the points in my own idiom on how to raise my daughter in a world filled with stupid people hell bent on being "football heros|rock stars|famous actors" instead of what makes us more effective, happy people; learning a useful skill and living a normal life.
This goes against the Ralph Cramden ethic of anything to get rich quick, but it's the "secret" to what has made my life and career so enjoyable.
This is what I want for my little bot, only with more STEM and a degree.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532836</id>
	<title>Meta-entertainment</title>
	<author>KingAlanI</author>
	<datestamp>1261506840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>How many movies exist about musicians, writers, and actors? How many songs are about music and dance?</p></div><p>I've heard it advised to write about what you know. And what do [musicians|writers|actors] know? [Music|writing|acting].<br>I suppose everybody values their own profession/interest especially highly; with the entertainment industry, in addition to that factor, they must also figure that they come up with better/easier-to-write stories by discussing their own experience.</p><p>A classic in that genre:<br>"...Johnny B. Goode<br>Who never ever learned to read or write so well<br>But he could play the guitar just like a ringing a bell..."</p><p>I understand that the first part of that excerpted statement is a problem.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How many movies exist about musicians , writers , and actors ?
How many songs are about music and dance ? I 've heard it advised to write about what you know .
And what do [ musicians | writers | actors ] know ?
[ Music | writing | acting ] .I suppose everybody values their own profession/interest especially highly ; with the entertainment industry , in addition to that factor , they must also figure that they come up with better/easier-to-write stories by discussing their own experience.A classic in that genre : " ...Johnny B. GoodeWho never ever learned to read or write so wellBut he could play the guitar just like a ringing a bell... " I understand that the first part of that excerpted statement is a problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How many movies exist about musicians, writers, and actors?
How many songs are about music and dance?I've heard it advised to write about what you know.
And what do [musicians|writers|actors] know?
[Music|writing|acting].I suppose everybody values their own profession/interest especially highly; with the entertainment industry, in addition to that factor, they must also figure that they come up with better/easier-to-write stories by discussing their own experience.A classic in that genre:"...Johnny B. GoodeWho never ever learned to read or write so wellBut he could play the guitar just like a ringing a bell..."I understand that the first part of that excerpted statement is a problem.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527404</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528682</id>
	<title>Re:We have enough.</title>
	<author>CodeBuster</author>
	<datestamp>1261475160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The problem is that businesses don't want to pay highly-trained and specialized workers more. They've tried outsourcing, right-sizing, downsizing, globalization, and every other way possible to screw people out of wages. And curiously enough, we keep coming back to the same problem -- no matter how big you make the labor pool, the required training and experience required to do these jobs demands a certain minimum income</p></div><p>This is a good point and it highlights a problem with current government attempts to encourage more youngsters to pursue careers in STEM. We say that we want "smarter" high school students and more interest in STEM professions while at the same time we continue to see outsourcing, visa fraud, and even less savory tactics used by employers to avoid paying for skills and expertise they say are needed to compete in the 21st century economy. The smart high school students are going to ask, "Why should we bust our butts to earn an engineering degree for a job that is underpaid, relative to the time, effort, and expense required to train for it, and is under constant threat of being cut, outsourced, or downsized"? They will choose to go into law, business, or medicine (although poorly implemented health care "reform" may soon ruin that career path too) instead.</p><p>A career in STEM is in many ways a lifelong commitment requiring high levels of ongoing participation both to stay current and to grow in one's chosen area of expertise. People are reluctant to make these sorts of commitments where employment is no longer guaranteed, jobs get outsourced at the drop of a hat, and STEM gets little or no respect from upper management. In fact, many upper management types are actively hostile towards STEM and resent the "high" wages earned by "skilled" workers (especially in IT) who are not, in their eyes, involved in "leadership" roles. This is compounded by the fact that many R&amp;D oriented STEM careers require higher levels of independence and creative freedom than most MBAs are comfortable granting.</p><p>How then can we convince a "smart" student that STEM are great career choices? Given the present reality, I am not sure that we can.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is that businesses do n't want to pay highly-trained and specialized workers more .
They 've tried outsourcing , right-sizing , downsizing , globalization , and every other way possible to screw people out of wages .
And curiously enough , we keep coming back to the same problem -- no matter how big you make the labor pool , the required training and experience required to do these jobs demands a certain minimum incomeThis is a good point and it highlights a problem with current government attempts to encourage more youngsters to pursue careers in STEM .
We say that we want " smarter " high school students and more interest in STEM professions while at the same time we continue to see outsourcing , visa fraud , and even less savory tactics used by employers to avoid paying for skills and expertise they say are needed to compete in the 21st century economy .
The smart high school students are going to ask , " Why should we bust our butts to earn an engineering degree for a job that is underpaid , relative to the time , effort , and expense required to train for it , and is under constant threat of being cut , outsourced , or downsized " ?
They will choose to go into law , business , or medicine ( although poorly implemented health care " reform " may soon ruin that career path too ) instead.A career in STEM is in many ways a lifelong commitment requiring high levels of ongoing participation both to stay current and to grow in one 's chosen area of expertise .
People are reluctant to make these sorts of commitments where employment is no longer guaranteed , jobs get outsourced at the drop of a hat , and STEM gets little or no respect from upper management .
In fact , many upper management types are actively hostile towards STEM and resent the " high " wages earned by " skilled " workers ( especially in IT ) who are not , in their eyes , involved in " leadership " roles .
This is compounded by the fact that many R&amp;D oriented STEM careers require higher levels of independence and creative freedom than most MBAs are comfortable granting.How then can we convince a " smart " student that STEM are great career choices ?
Given the present reality , I am not sure that we can .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is that businesses don't want to pay highly-trained and specialized workers more.
They've tried outsourcing, right-sizing, downsizing, globalization, and every other way possible to screw people out of wages.
And curiously enough, we keep coming back to the same problem -- no matter how big you make the labor pool, the required training and experience required to do these jobs demands a certain minimum incomeThis is a good point and it highlights a problem with current government attempts to encourage more youngsters to pursue careers in STEM.
We say that we want "smarter" high school students and more interest in STEM professions while at the same time we continue to see outsourcing, visa fraud, and even less savory tactics used by employers to avoid paying for skills and expertise they say are needed to compete in the 21st century economy.
The smart high school students are going to ask, "Why should we bust our butts to earn an engineering degree for a job that is underpaid, relative to the time, effort, and expense required to train for it, and is under constant threat of being cut, outsourced, or downsized"?
They will choose to go into law, business, or medicine (although poorly implemented health care "reform" may soon ruin that career path too) instead.A career in STEM is in many ways a lifelong commitment requiring high levels of ongoing participation both to stay current and to grow in one's chosen area of expertise.
People are reluctant to make these sorts of commitments where employment is no longer guaranteed, jobs get outsourced at the drop of a hat, and STEM gets little or no respect from upper management.
In fact, many upper management types are actively hostile towards STEM and resent the "high" wages earned by "skilled" workers (especially in IT) who are not, in their eyes, involved in "leadership" roles.
This is compounded by the fact that many R&amp;D oriented STEM careers require higher levels of independence and creative freedom than most MBAs are comfortable granting.How then can we convince a "smart" student that STEM are great career choices?
Given the present reality, I am not sure that we can.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527346</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528344</id>
	<title>as the romans said...</title>
	<author>hitmark</author>
	<datestamp>1261473780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>bread and circus...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>bread and circus.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>bread and circus...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528958</id>
	<title>Re:We have enough.</title>
	<author>fermion</author>
	<datestamp>1261476300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Pretty much I have to agree it is the pay.  There was a time when a person could get paid to make something.  I don't want to turn this into a debate about the declining manufacturing capability in America, but I do want to state some facts.  Much of the debate of 2008 and 2009 centered around the failing car companies, and that American car companies paid their employees a livable wage, meaning their families could eat, have a house, and good medical care.  In this debate, it was seldom mentioned that the managers negotiated contracts that traded short term payments to the employees in exchange for long term payments.  That is, the employees would take less money now with the knowledge that the money they did not take now would be used to take care of the employee later on.
<p>
The problem is that he managers were not competent and those promises were never kept.  Rather than admitting failure to keep a contract, the managers blamed health care costs.  Incompetent managers were allowed to receive huge pay and workers were shafted out of their contracts.
</p><p>
I will ask this.  If you were a rational, intelligent, and educated worker with choices, would you put yourself into a position where you could lied to and cheated, or would you try to get into a position where you can be an incompetant and still receive a million dollar bonus?  In other words, would you be  a person how made something, or pushed paper around.  I think we all know the answer to that.
</p><p>
The average engineer can make a middle class income after college, but will be fired a drop of a hat.  A competent software developer can make quite a bit of money, if the money if being invested in infrastructure instead or paying off foreign governments and mercenaries and flipping houses.  If flipping houses and toppling government is a better investment that is where the money will go.  If such things are structurally limited, them more money will go into infrastructure, and the people who make things will have well paying jobs.
</p><p>
For the past 8 years or so the best placed for semi-skilled worker to go is in the military or a prison guard.  If that is not a communist government, I don't know what is.  There simply has been no capital to do anything truly creative.  Recall that Google was 1996.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Pretty much I have to agree it is the pay .
There was a time when a person could get paid to make something .
I do n't want to turn this into a debate about the declining manufacturing capability in America , but I do want to state some facts .
Much of the debate of 2008 and 2009 centered around the failing car companies , and that American car companies paid their employees a livable wage , meaning their families could eat , have a house , and good medical care .
In this debate , it was seldom mentioned that the managers negotiated contracts that traded short term payments to the employees in exchange for long term payments .
That is , the employees would take less money now with the knowledge that the money they did not take now would be used to take care of the employee later on .
The problem is that he managers were not competent and those promises were never kept .
Rather than admitting failure to keep a contract , the managers blamed health care costs .
Incompetent managers were allowed to receive huge pay and workers were shafted out of their contracts .
I will ask this .
If you were a rational , intelligent , and educated worker with choices , would you put yourself into a position where you could lied to and cheated , or would you try to get into a position where you can be an incompetant and still receive a million dollar bonus ?
In other words , would you be a person how made something , or pushed paper around .
I think we all know the answer to that .
The average engineer can make a middle class income after college , but will be fired a drop of a hat .
A competent software developer can make quite a bit of money , if the money if being invested in infrastructure instead or paying off foreign governments and mercenaries and flipping houses .
If flipping houses and toppling government is a better investment that is where the money will go .
If such things are structurally limited , them more money will go into infrastructure , and the people who make things will have well paying jobs .
For the past 8 years or so the best placed for semi-skilled worker to go is in the military or a prison guard .
If that is not a communist government , I do n't know what is .
There simply has been no capital to do anything truly creative .
Recall that Google was 1996 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pretty much I have to agree it is the pay.
There was a time when a person could get paid to make something.
I don't want to turn this into a debate about the declining manufacturing capability in America, but I do want to state some facts.
Much of the debate of 2008 and 2009 centered around the failing car companies, and that American car companies paid their employees a livable wage, meaning their families could eat, have a house, and good medical care.
In this debate, it was seldom mentioned that the managers negotiated contracts that traded short term payments to the employees in exchange for long term payments.
That is, the employees would take less money now with the knowledge that the money they did not take now would be used to take care of the employee later on.
The problem is that he managers were not competent and those promises were never kept.
Rather than admitting failure to keep a contract, the managers blamed health care costs.
Incompetent managers were allowed to receive huge pay and workers were shafted out of their contracts.
I will ask this.
If you were a rational, intelligent, and educated worker with choices, would you put yourself into a position where you could lied to and cheated, or would you try to get into a position where you can be an incompetant and still receive a million dollar bonus?
In other words, would you be  a person how made something, or pushed paper around.
I think we all know the answer to that.
The average engineer can make a middle class income after college, but will be fired a drop of a hat.
A competent software developer can make quite a bit of money, if the money if being invested in infrastructure instead or paying off foreign governments and mercenaries and flipping houses.
If flipping houses and toppling government is a better investment that is where the money will go.
If such things are structurally limited, them more money will go into infrastructure, and the people who make things will have well paying jobs.
For the past 8 years or so the best placed for semi-skilled worker to go is in the military or a prison guard.
If that is not a communist government, I don't know what is.
There simply has been no capital to do anything truly creative.
Recall that Google was 1996.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527346</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527804</id>
	<title>Always will have nerds</title>
	<author>K.B.Zod</author>
	<datestamp>1261515000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Eventually, on its own, computing may move out of the "nerd" area of interest and into the mainstream. It's already starting with smartphones, music players, and ever more intricate gaming consoles. Once that happens, computing will be cool, and some other area of interest will become nerdy. Or, computing will stay "nerdy", and maybe something else will become cool, like tabletop gaming or massive LEGO collections or comic books. (Sorry guys<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...)</p><p>Society will always need to label some as nerds, for whatever demented sociological reason there is for it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Eventually , on its own , computing may move out of the " nerd " area of interest and into the mainstream .
It 's already starting with smartphones , music players , and ever more intricate gaming consoles .
Once that happens , computing will be cool , and some other area of interest will become nerdy .
Or , computing will stay " nerdy " , and maybe something else will become cool , like tabletop gaming or massive LEGO collections or comic books .
( Sorry guys ... ) Society will always need to label some as nerds , for whatever demented sociological reason there is for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Eventually, on its own, computing may move out of the "nerd" area of interest and into the mainstream.
It's already starting with smartphones, music players, and ever more intricate gaming consoles.
Once that happens, computing will be cool, and some other area of interest will become nerdy.
Or, computing will stay "nerdy", and maybe something else will become cool, like tabletop gaming or massive LEGO collections or comic books.
(Sorry guys ...)Society will always need to label some as nerds, for whatever demented sociological reason there is for it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528104</id>
	<title>This is the 21st Century</title>
	<author>Bucc5062</author>
	<datestamp>1261472880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> 'We need to gain an understanding in the population that education in computer science is both extraordinarily important and extraordinarily interesting,' says Alfred Spector, vice president for research and special initiatives at Google. 'The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code. That is absolutely not the reality.'"</p></div><p>What bullshit comes from the mouths of corporate executives and the media wonks that love to parrot them.  The type of job or career Mr Spector talks about is about as rare an item as a top NFL position these days.  No matter what is taught in high school and college any more, the type of computer job he talks about is only for the select few.  The rest of the standard business coding is slowing being stripped from the United States and send overseas in the form of "consulting" and Enterprise Development solutions.  Take a look at many of the top US companies and you will see they are managing their resources, which translates to sending the work overseas for competitive pricing.  Good for the short term investment?  Of course, but not really for any long term positive development gains.</p><p>I really don't give a damn about the term "nerd" though come on, that is really getting old.  We all live in a technological society today where the lines are blurrier then they were in the 80s.  having a diverse educational background is beneficial towards living a full life.  When I went to high school and college we were required to take liberal arts classes along with CompSci to keep in touch with the world around us.  Did it make me a better employee?  I like to believe so.  However, companies back then valued more diversity because they still recognized the human behind the skill.  More and more what i see today is that Programmers, mostly business Programmers are being pushed aside for the commidty programmer.  "can you program in ?  Great, your hired"  Doesn't matter that the person may not give a shit about the company or can do anthing but write code in language X.  Can they think?  Yikes, can't have that any more, because it threatens the managers position.  Why care about anything when your position may be "downsized" or dropped with no regard to your status, position, or contribution to said company.</p><p>Instead of focusing on creating "cool nerds", how about we focus on getting companies to retain employees, valuing their whole lives, not just the automoton skillsets that drive the assembly line mentality that is development these days.  And to comment on the first poster, one huge difference between the NFL player and a computer programmer is that you cannot offshore the NFL position while the programmer position gets "traded" to a offshore team.  The day they can do that in football is the day salaries will drop in the NFL.  Cool Nerds?  Meh!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>'We need to gain an understanding in the population that education in computer science is both extraordinarily important and extraordinarily interesting, ' says Alfred Spector , vice president for research and special initiatives at Google .
'The fear is that if you pursue computer science , you will be stuck in a basement , writing code .
That is absolutely not the reality .
' " What bullshit comes from the mouths of corporate executives and the media wonks that love to parrot them .
The type of job or career Mr Spector talks about is about as rare an item as a top NFL position these days .
No matter what is taught in high school and college any more , the type of computer job he talks about is only for the select few .
The rest of the standard business coding is slowing being stripped from the United States and send overseas in the form of " consulting " and Enterprise Development solutions .
Take a look at many of the top US companies and you will see they are managing their resources , which translates to sending the work overseas for competitive pricing .
Good for the short term investment ?
Of course , but not really for any long term positive development gains.I really do n't give a damn about the term " nerd " though come on , that is really getting old .
We all live in a technological society today where the lines are blurrier then they were in the 80s .
having a diverse educational background is beneficial towards living a full life .
When I went to high school and college we were required to take liberal arts classes along with CompSci to keep in touch with the world around us .
Did it make me a better employee ?
I like to believe so .
However , companies back then valued more diversity because they still recognized the human behind the skill .
More and more what i see today is that Programmers , mostly business Programmers are being pushed aside for the commidty programmer .
" can you program in ?
Great , your hired " Does n't matter that the person may not give a shit about the company or can do anthing but write code in language X. Can they think ?
Yikes , ca n't have that any more , because it threatens the managers position .
Why care about anything when your position may be " downsized " or dropped with no regard to your status , position , or contribution to said company.Instead of focusing on creating " cool nerds " , how about we focus on getting companies to retain employees , valuing their whole lives , not just the automoton skillsets that drive the assembly line mentality that is development these days .
And to comment on the first poster , one huge difference between the NFL player and a computer programmer is that you can not offshore the NFL position while the programmer position gets " traded " to a offshore team .
The day they can do that in football is the day salaries will drop in the NFL .
Cool Nerds ?
Meh !</tokentext>
<sentencetext> 'We need to gain an understanding in the population that education in computer science is both extraordinarily important and extraordinarily interesting,' says Alfred Spector, vice president for research and special initiatives at Google.
'The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code.
That is absolutely not the reality.
'"What bullshit comes from the mouths of corporate executives and the media wonks that love to parrot them.
The type of job or career Mr Spector talks about is about as rare an item as a top NFL position these days.
No matter what is taught in high school and college any more, the type of computer job he talks about is only for the select few.
The rest of the standard business coding is slowing being stripped from the United States and send overseas in the form of "consulting" and Enterprise Development solutions.
Take a look at many of the top US companies and you will see they are managing their resources, which translates to sending the work overseas for competitive pricing.
Good for the short term investment?
Of course, but not really for any long term positive development gains.I really don't give a damn about the term "nerd" though come on, that is really getting old.
We all live in a technological society today where the lines are blurrier then they were in the 80s.
having a diverse educational background is beneficial towards living a full life.
When I went to high school and college we were required to take liberal arts classes along with CompSci to keep in touch with the world around us.
Did it make me a better employee?
I like to believe so.
However, companies back then valued more diversity because they still recognized the human behind the skill.
More and more what i see today is that Programmers, mostly business Programmers are being pushed aside for the commidty programmer.
"can you program in ?
Great, your hired"  Doesn't matter that the person may not give a shit about the company or can do anthing but write code in language X.  Can they think?
Yikes, can't have that any more, because it threatens the managers position.
Why care about anything when your position may be "downsized" or dropped with no regard to your status, position, or contribution to said company.Instead of focusing on creating "cool nerds", how about we focus on getting companies to retain employees, valuing their whole lives, not just the automoton skillsets that drive the assembly line mentality that is development these days.
And to comment on the first poster, one huge difference between the NFL player and a computer programmer is that you cannot offshore the NFL position while the programmer position gets "traded" to a offshore team.
The day they can do that in football is the day salaries will drop in the NFL.
Cool Nerds?
Meh!
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30530400</id>
	<title>Reality?</title>
	<author>sbeckstead</author>
	<datestamp>1261482540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i> 'The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code. That is absolutely not the reality.'"</i>
<br>
I don't know what reality this guy is talking about but I'm pretty much stuck in a basement writing code.  I was trained as an architect,a welder and a diesel mechanic, so being all of those and being able to write code got me stuck in the basement.</htmltext>
<tokenext>'The fear is that if you pursue computer science , you will be stuck in a basement , writing code .
That is absolutely not the reality .
' " I do n't know what reality this guy is talking about but I 'm pretty much stuck in a basement writing code .
I was trained as an architect,a welder and a diesel mechanic , so being all of those and being able to write code got me stuck in the basement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> 'The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code.
That is absolutely not the reality.
'"

I don't know what reality this guy is talking about but I'm pretty much stuck in a basement writing code.
I was trained as an architect,a welder and a diesel mechanic, so being all of those and being able to write code got me stuck in the basement.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529116</id>
	<title>Re:I've seen things swinging the other direction.</title>
	<author>PitaBred</author>
	<datestamp>1261476780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Even if you're a nerd, there is ALWAYS a need for social skills. We live in a society... even if you don't like people in general, it's good to be able to pretend sometimes.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Even if you 're a nerd , there is ALWAYS a need for social skills .
We live in a society... even if you do n't like people in general , it 's good to be able to pretend sometimes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even if you're a nerd, there is ALWAYS a need for social skills.
We live in a society... even if you don't like people in general, it's good to be able to pretend sometimes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527508</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527990</id>
	<title>Re:That's me!</title>
	<author>Denial93</author>
	<datestamp>1261472460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're right, and not just in the business world but also in pure (university) research. My flatmate is doing biology/genetics research, I do social science, and our advanced IT degrees are hugely helpful in both of these fields as well.</p><p>In my experience and opinion, a B.A. or more in IT is now a good start for <i>any</i> knowledge worker career.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're right , and not just in the business world but also in pure ( university ) research .
My flatmate is doing biology/genetics research , I do social science , and our advanced IT degrees are hugely helpful in both of these fields as well.In my experience and opinion , a B.A .
or more in IT is now a good start for any knowledge worker career .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're right, and not just in the business world but also in pure (university) research.
My flatmate is doing biology/genetics research, I do social science, and our advanced IT degrees are hugely helpful in both of these fields as well.In my experience and opinion, a B.A.
or more in IT is now a good start for any knowledge worker career.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527468</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528036</id>
	<title>Productivity tradeoff</title>
	<author>Deflatamouse!</author>
	<datestamp>1261472580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The person that the OP is describing is either:</p><p>1. A super genious  (rare)<br>2. A senior person that just finished all their training<br>3. A super rich dude that's been in school (middle-aged)</p><p>Unless you're rich and/or don't have to worry about paying your bills, you can't really afford to put in the time and money to be trained in multiple disciplines.  And if you're rich, why would you bother unless you're really curious.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The person that the OP is describing is either : 1 .
A super genious ( rare ) 2 .
A senior person that just finished all their training3 .
A super rich dude that 's been in school ( middle-aged ) Unless you 're rich and/or do n't have to worry about paying your bills , you ca n't really afford to put in the time and money to be trained in multiple disciplines .
And if you 're rich , why would you bother unless you 're really curious .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The person that the OP is describing is either:1.
A super genious  (rare)2.
A senior person that just finished all their training3.
A super rich dude that's been in school (middle-aged)Unless you're rich and/or don't have to worry about paying your bills, you can't really afford to put in the time and money to be trained in multiple disciplines.
And if you're rich, why would you bother unless you're really curious.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527474</id>
	<title>Re:He's absolutely correct</title>
	<author>FlyingBishop</author>
	<datestamp>1261514040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My sophomore year of college, I realized that I was doomed to be sitting in front of a computer screen doing work. My only choice was what I would be doing. And coding I enjoy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My sophomore year of college , I realized that I was doomed to be sitting in front of a computer screen doing work .
My only choice was what I would be doing .
And coding I enjoy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My sophomore year of college, I realized that I was doomed to be sitting in front of a computer screen doing work.
My only choice was what I would be doing.
And coding I enjoy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527242</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527932</id>
	<title>America is reasonably well off</title>
	<author>herwin</author>
	<datestamp>1261515480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At least the US economy has some cool nerds to hire. The UK requires students to specialise at 14-16, and the result is whole classes of computing students who have not a clue about how their work will be applied, particularly in science and engineering.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At least the US economy has some cool nerds to hire .
The UK requires students to specialise at 14-16 , and the result is whole classes of computing students who have not a clue about how their work will be applied , particularly in science and engineering .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At least the US economy has some cool nerds to hire.
The UK requires students to specialise at 14-16, and the result is whole classes of computing students who have not a clue about how their work will be applied, particularly in science and engineering.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527790</id>
	<title>Re:The Onus Should Not Be on the Nerds</title>
	<author>gbarules2999</author>
	<datestamp>1261515000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I know you're just cutting swathes into lesser beings for trolling's sake, but you do have a slight truth in the anti-intellectual angle. However, this comes from the segrigation that schools naturally impose on their students, not from a society imposed choice of moral or value system. Challenge or Honors classes are set aside and rarely "spill" into the rest of the pack for scheduling reasons. I can speak from personal experience and say that this creates an artificial but still very real barrier between those who chose to take a challenge and those who don't. There's certainly friction between the two. It's additionally compounded when you enter lower-level classes (for students who, for example, don't pass the basic skills test mandated by one of the governments).</htmltext>
<tokenext>I know you 're just cutting swathes into lesser beings for trolling 's sake , but you do have a slight truth in the anti-intellectual angle .
However , this comes from the segrigation that schools naturally impose on their students , not from a society imposed choice of moral or value system .
Challenge or Honors classes are set aside and rarely " spill " into the rest of the pack for scheduling reasons .
I can speak from personal experience and say that this creates an artificial but still very real barrier between those who chose to take a challenge and those who do n't .
There 's certainly friction between the two .
It 's additionally compounded when you enter lower-level classes ( for students who , for example , do n't pass the basic skills test mandated by one of the governments ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know you're just cutting swathes into lesser beings for trolling's sake, but you do have a slight truth in the anti-intellectual angle.
However, this comes from the segrigation that schools naturally impose on their students, not from a society imposed choice of moral or value system.
Challenge or Honors classes are set aside and rarely "spill" into the rest of the pack for scheduling reasons.
I can speak from personal experience and say that this creates an artificial but still very real barrier between those who chose to take a challenge and those who don't.
There's certainly friction between the two.
It's additionally compounded when you enter lower-level classes (for students who, for example, don't pass the basic skills test mandated by one of the governments).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527404</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30530524</id>
	<title>How?</title>
	<author>rapu</author>
	<datestamp>1261483140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How about someone like <a href="http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/" title="blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Steve Yegge?</a> [blogspot.com]? I believe he's "cool". He has a modern sense of humor, he writes about computer memory by using Mario Kart as an example and admits to smoking pot, and all that. He writes well, and could perhaps be considered a "journalist", which is what the summary suggests as an example to kids. But if someone can sit down and read over 500 words text, aren't they already more nerdy that average? And in any case, how are even the cool nerds supposed to present themselves, if the medium has to be non-nerdy and non-compulsory?<p>Perhaps it's sometimes more effective for people who aren't primarily geeks to show their nerdy side. I remember how nice it was when Pink Floyd presented the synthesizer they used in the Dark Side of The Moon, although it wasn't necessary to enjoy the music that was their main focus.</p><p>As for education, having Wolfram's <a href="http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Rule90.html" title="wolfram.com" rel="nofollow">Rule 90</a> [wolfram.com] as a part of an art class might interest someone in procedural 2D graphics. It's quick and easy to plot on graph paper using simple rules.</p><p>Apart from reading and education, what they could do is put cool hackers in movies. And even then, they should be creative. Usually movies depict hackers as someone who basically uses or works around someone else's product (The Matrix, Die Hard 4, I think), which is the idea that non-technical people have of computers in general. That is, they probably don't think they use computer \_programs\_ - they think they use software \_products\_. So, instead of being able to just work with existing systems, maybe it would be cool if they also did something original. For instance, someone could set up a time bomb using some kind of sleep(x) command, or something. Use a simple while(true) loop to do... something. Indefinitely. I don't know what, because I'm not cool.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about someone like Steve Yegge ?
[ blogspot.com ] ? I believe he 's " cool " .
He has a modern sense of humor , he writes about computer memory by using Mario Kart as an example and admits to smoking pot , and all that .
He writes well , and could perhaps be considered a " journalist " , which is what the summary suggests as an example to kids .
But if someone can sit down and read over 500 words text , are n't they already more nerdy that average ?
And in any case , how are even the cool nerds supposed to present themselves , if the medium has to be non-nerdy and non-compulsory ? Perhaps it 's sometimes more effective for people who are n't primarily geeks to show their nerdy side .
I remember how nice it was when Pink Floyd presented the synthesizer they used in the Dark Side of The Moon , although it was n't necessary to enjoy the music that was their main focus.As for education , having Wolfram 's Rule 90 [ wolfram.com ] as a part of an art class might interest someone in procedural 2D graphics .
It 's quick and easy to plot on graph paper using simple rules.Apart from reading and education , what they could do is put cool hackers in movies .
And even then , they should be creative .
Usually movies depict hackers as someone who basically uses or works around someone else 's product ( The Matrix , Die Hard 4 , I think ) , which is the idea that non-technical people have of computers in general .
That is , they probably do n't think they use computer \ _programs \ _ - they think they use software \ _products \ _ .
So , instead of being able to just work with existing systems , maybe it would be cool if they also did something original .
For instance , someone could set up a time bomb using some kind of sleep ( x ) command , or something .
Use a simple while ( true ) loop to do... something. Indefinitely .
I do n't know what , because I 'm not cool .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about someone like Steve Yegge?
[blogspot.com]? I believe he's "cool".
He has a modern sense of humor, he writes about computer memory by using Mario Kart as an example and admits to smoking pot, and all that.
He writes well, and could perhaps be considered a "journalist", which is what the summary suggests as an example to kids.
But if someone can sit down and read over 500 words text, aren't they already more nerdy that average?
And in any case, how are even the cool nerds supposed to present themselves, if the medium has to be non-nerdy and non-compulsory?Perhaps it's sometimes more effective for people who aren't primarily geeks to show their nerdy side.
I remember how nice it was when Pink Floyd presented the synthesizer they used in the Dark Side of The Moon, although it wasn't necessary to enjoy the music that was their main focus.As for education, having Wolfram's Rule 90 [wolfram.com] as a part of an art class might interest someone in procedural 2D graphics.
It's quick and easy to plot on graph paper using simple rules.Apart from reading and education, what they could do is put cool hackers in movies.
And even then, they should be creative.
Usually movies depict hackers as someone who basically uses or works around someone else's product (The Matrix, Die Hard 4, I think), which is the idea that non-technical people have of computers in general.
That is, they probably don't think they use computer \_programs\_ - they think they use software \_products\_.
So, instead of being able to just work with existing systems, maybe it would be cool if they also did something original.
For instance, someone could set up a time bomb using some kind of sleep(x) command, or something.
Use a simple while(true) loop to do... something. Indefinitely.
I don't know what, because I'm not cool.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527268</id>
	<title>Cool?  You don't know cool.</title>
	<author>Trigun</author>
	<datestamp>1261513380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What about Turing?  Tesla? Archimedes? Einstein?  Hawking?  Those guys from 'Big Bang Theory'?</p><p>How much cooler do you want?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What about Turing ?
Tesla ? Archimedes ?
Einstein ? Hawking ?
Those guys from 'Big Bang Theory ' ? How much cooler do you want ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What about Turing?
Tesla? Archimedes?
Einstein?  Hawking?
Those guys from 'Big Bang Theory'?How much cooler do you want?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532760</id>
	<title>Oxymoron</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261505640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And here I thought that a nerd was an<br>"intelligent but \_single-minded\_ person".</p><p>But then again cool nerd is an oxymoron too.</p><p>oxymoron+oxymoron=moron</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And here I thought that a nerd was an " intelligent but \ _single-minded \ _ person " .But then again cool nerd is an oxymoron too.oxymoron + oxymoron = moron</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And here I thought that a nerd was an"intelligent but \_single-minded\_ person".But then again cool nerd is an oxymoron too.oxymoron+oxymoron=moron</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527412</id>
	<title>Re:The Onus Should Not Be on the Nerds</title>
	<author>maxume</author>
	<datestamp>1261513860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you buy a scratch off ticket, there is like a 50\% that you will get your money back.</p><p>Also, there was an episode of Sliders about this. It was just as awful as the rest.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you buy a scratch off ticket , there is like a 50 \ % that you will get your money back.Also , there was an episode of Sliders about this .
It was just as awful as the rest .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you buy a scratch off ticket, there is like a 50\% that you will get your money back.Also, there was an episode of Sliders about this.
It was just as awful as the rest.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527768</id>
	<title>Re:Fear of Being Stereotyped? Really?</title>
	<author>awyeah</author>
	<datestamp>1261514880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think parents have the ability to affect what their kids are passionate about.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think parents have the ability to affect what their kids are passionate about .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think parents have the ability to affect what their kids are passionate about.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527754</id>
	<title>Re:Fear of Being Stereotyped? Really?</title>
	<author>Grishnakh</author>
	<datestamp>1261514820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is it exactly.  I'm really tired of all this whining about how we need to push more young people into computer-related or engineering fields.  If they're not interested in those things, they're not interested.  If that means our economy goes down the crapper in 30 years because everyone would rather play sports or be real estate agents or scam artists, then so be it.  Let nations where people believe in hard work and doing technical things be the ones to get ahead, instead of trying to push people into things they don't want to do and consequently aren't going to be very good at.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is it exactly .
I 'm really tired of all this whining about how we need to push more young people into computer-related or engineering fields .
If they 're not interested in those things , they 're not interested .
If that means our economy goes down the crapper in 30 years because everyone would rather play sports or be real estate agents or scam artists , then so be it .
Let nations where people believe in hard work and doing technical things be the ones to get ahead , instead of trying to push people into things they do n't want to do and consequently are n't going to be very good at .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is it exactly.
I'm really tired of all this whining about how we need to push more young people into computer-related or engineering fields.
If they're not interested in those things, they're not interested.
If that means our economy goes down the crapper in 30 years because everyone would rather play sports or be real estate agents or scam artists, then so be it.
Let nations where people believe in hard work and doing technical things be the ones to get ahead, instead of trying to push people into things they don't want to do and consequently aren't going to be very good at.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30530716</id>
	<title>Too many nerds now unemployed due to offshoring..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261484220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Being a Nerd "Cool" or not is more undesirable then ever inthat it simply means you are more apt to be unemployed than anyone else as your job gets off-shored to boost the bonuses of the execs and make room for more middle management.  If you really want more cool nerds you need to see to it that they can afford to live in this country without the fear of having their jobs off-shored on the whim of some short sided exec with no comprehension of the damage their  actions pose to our economy and culture.  Just my two cents..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Being a Nerd " Cool " or not is more undesirable then ever inthat it simply means you are more apt to be unemployed than anyone else as your job gets off-shored to boost the bonuses of the execs and make room for more middle management .
If you really want more cool nerds you need to see to it that they can afford to live in this country without the fear of having their jobs off-shored on the whim of some short sided exec with no comprehension of the damage their actions pose to our economy and culture .
Just my two cents. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Being a Nerd "Cool" or not is more undesirable then ever inthat it simply means you are more apt to be unemployed than anyone else as your job gets off-shored to boost the bonuses of the execs and make room for more middle management.
If you really want more cool nerds you need to see to it that they can afford to live in this country without the fear of having their jobs off-shored on the whim of some short sided exec with no comprehension of the damage their  actions pose to our economy and culture.
Just my two cents..</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529824</id>
	<title>This doesnt make sense...</title>
	<author>SanjayU</author>
	<datestamp>1261479840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Not enough young people are embracing computing, often because they are leery of being branded nerds..."

Wouldn't that mean that young people didn't do anything nerdy?  Last time I checked, there were plenty of nerdy fields outside of tech.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Not enough young people are embracing computing , often because they are leery of being branded nerds... " Would n't that mean that young people did n't do anything nerdy ?
Last time I checked , there were plenty of nerdy fields outside of tech .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Not enough young people are embracing computing, often because they are leery of being branded nerds..."

Wouldn't that mean that young people didn't do anything nerdy?
Last time I checked, there were plenty of nerdy fields outside of tech.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532300</id>
	<title>Re:Horrible Idea</title>
	<author>tamird</author>
	<datestamp>1261499700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Just like the NY Times article, you're missing the point.

We don't need people with 'hybrid careers', that's just an ambiguous marketing term that sounds great in a newspaper article.

What we need is basic training in algorithmic thinking for the masses. Think of the horde of paper-pushing people who could use regular expressions or very, very basic looping structures to save themselves hours of manually manipulating text. From personal experience I can tell you that even 'technical' people like mechanical engineers are total fucking morons when it comes to automating their drone tasks.

Nobody is talking about teaching secretaries to write compilers; your crying about the degradation of computer science is totally out of place as a comment to this story.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just like the NY Times article , you 're missing the point .
We do n't need people with 'hybrid careers ' , that 's just an ambiguous marketing term that sounds great in a newspaper article .
What we need is basic training in algorithmic thinking for the masses .
Think of the horde of paper-pushing people who could use regular expressions or very , very basic looping structures to save themselves hours of manually manipulating text .
From personal experience I can tell you that even 'technical ' people like mechanical engineers are total fucking morons when it comes to automating their drone tasks .
Nobody is talking about teaching secretaries to write compilers ; your crying about the degradation of computer science is totally out of place as a comment to this story .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just like the NY Times article, you're missing the point.
We don't need people with 'hybrid careers', that's just an ambiguous marketing term that sounds great in a newspaper article.
What we need is basic training in algorithmic thinking for the masses.
Think of the horde of paper-pushing people who could use regular expressions or very, very basic looping structures to save themselves hours of manually manipulating text.
From personal experience I can tell you that even 'technical' people like mechanical engineers are total fucking morons when it comes to automating their drone tasks.
Nobody is talking about teaching secretaries to write compilers; your crying about the degradation of computer science is totally out of place as a comment to this story.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529124</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527446</id>
	<title>Help</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261513980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Help I'm in my basement writing code.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Help I 'm in my basement writing code .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Help I'm in my basement writing code.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30533604</id>
	<title>Re:Affairs</title>
	<author>will\_die</author>
	<datestamp>1259747280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>We already have <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2003/jun/22/theobserver.observerbusiness4" title="guardian.co.uk">Larry Ellison</a> [guardian.co.uk] and that has not helped.<br>
Besides they say money is sexy and look how many of the richest people in the world are there because of computers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>We already have Larry Ellison [ guardian.co.uk ] and that has not helped .
Besides they say money is sexy and look how many of the richest people in the world are there because of computers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We already have Larry Ellison [guardian.co.uk] and that has not helped.
Besides they say money is sexy and look how many of the richest people in the world are there because of computers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527824</id>
	<title>Re:I think us nerds are doing fine...</title>
	<author>Paralizer</author>
	<datestamp>1261515060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How sad your world must be if <i>that</i> is what gives you a feeling of accomplishment and self worth.<br> <br>Furthermore you don't even know the circumstances (or seemed to imply you don't) to which he was working there.  What if he's just doing his friend a favor by giving him some help on a busy day?  What if he lost a bet and had to work there for a few hours?  What if he owns or co-owns the place?  If you merely <i>saw</i> him there then you know nothing and to assume you are better than him shows how shallow you really are.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How sad your world must be if that is what gives you a feeling of accomplishment and self worth .
Furthermore you do n't even know the circumstances ( or seemed to imply you do n't ) to which he was working there .
What if he 's just doing his friend a favor by giving him some help on a busy day ?
What if he lost a bet and had to work there for a few hours ?
What if he owns or co-owns the place ?
If you merely saw him there then you know nothing and to assume you are better than him shows how shallow you really are .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How sad your world must be if that is what gives you a feeling of accomplishment and self worth.
Furthermore you don't even know the circumstances (or seemed to imply you don't) to which he was working there.
What if he's just doing his friend a favor by giving him some help on a busy day?
What if he lost a bet and had to work there for a few hours?
What if he owns or co-owns the place?
If you merely saw him there then you know nothing and to assume you are better than him shows how shallow you really are.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527230</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30530690</id>
	<title>No, the reality is that you'll be stuck in a</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261484040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>cubicle, not a basement. And only writing code if you're lucky. Otherwise you'll be doing the project "death by status report" dance.<br>I'd make some progress but I'm too busy reporting my lack of progress.</p><p>In my spare time I'm an Olympic gymnast and international pop star. Not!<br>nananana poker face nananana</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>cubicle , not a basement .
And only writing code if you 're lucky .
Otherwise you 'll be doing the project " death by status report " dance.I 'd make some progress but I 'm too busy reporting my lack of progress.In my spare time I 'm an Olympic gymnast and international pop star .
Not ! nananana poker face nananana</tokentext>
<sentencetext>cubicle, not a basement.
And only writing code if you're lucky.
Otherwise you'll be doing the project "death by status report" dance.I'd make some progress but I'm too busy reporting my lack of progress.In my spare time I'm an Olympic gymnast and international pop star.
Not!nananana poker face nananana</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528072</id>
	<title>And what journalism needs..</title>
	<author>kaizendojo</author>
	<datestamp>1261472700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>is to stop calling IT professionals Nerds and Geeks.  Frankly I'm sick and tired of it.  I'm not a nerd or a geek, I'm a professional, just like your Doctor or Dentist.  You wouldn't refer to them cavalierly when they had your life in their hands, so why would you do the same to me when I may have your career or business or financial health in my hands?  Furthermore, we should be treating this like the "N" word and stop using it amongst ourselves.</htmltext>
<tokenext>is to stop calling IT professionals Nerds and Geeks .
Frankly I 'm sick and tired of it .
I 'm not a nerd or a geek , I 'm a professional , just like your Doctor or Dentist .
You would n't refer to them cavalierly when they had your life in their hands , so why would you do the same to me when I may have your career or business or financial health in my hands ?
Furthermore , we should be treating this like the " N " word and stop using it amongst ourselves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>is to stop calling IT professionals Nerds and Geeks.
Frankly I'm sick and tired of it.
I'm not a nerd or a geek, I'm a professional, just like your Doctor or Dentist.
You wouldn't refer to them cavalierly when they had your life in their hands, so why would you do the same to me when I may have your career or business or financial health in my hands?
Furthermore, we should be treating this like the "N" word and stop using it amongst ourselves.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527880</id>
	<title>Re:The Onus Should Not Be on the Nerds</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261515300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not just football, of course.  There are a lot of misappropriated priorities.</p><p>And parents appear to not care.  They would rather feed their kids entertainment to keep them happy (and out of their hair) than to actually take the time, effort, and "pain" to instill the correct priorities and education and whatnot in them.  It's easier to give them $3000 in entertainment gifts per year (you know<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... ipod, xbox, games, car, etc) than to take the effort to try to influence their priorities.</p><p>And then there's the whole thing that we should just let kids do wha tthey want and what comes natural and not "force" our "beliefs" on them... which apparently includes education, drugs, religion, morals, ethics, family values, holidays, food choices, etc.  Basically, kids should grow up by themselves!  (and "by themselves" we mean "by the government/public school system")</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not just football , of course .
There are a lot of misappropriated priorities.And parents appear to not care .
They would rather feed their kids entertainment to keep them happy ( and out of their hair ) than to actually take the time , effort , and " pain " to instill the correct priorities and education and whatnot in them .
It 's easier to give them $ 3000 in entertainment gifts per year ( you know .... ipod , xbox , games , car , etc ) than to take the effort to try to influence their priorities.And then there 's the whole thing that we should just let kids do wha tthey want and what comes natural and not " force " our " beliefs " on them... which apparently includes education , drugs , religion , morals , ethics , family values , holidays , food choices , etc .
Basically , kids should grow up by themselves !
( and " by themselves " we mean " by the government/public school system " )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not just football, of course.
There are a lot of misappropriated priorities.And parents appear to not care.
They would rather feed their kids entertainment to keep them happy (and out of their hair) than to actually take the time, effort, and "pain" to instill the correct priorities and education and whatnot in them.
It's easier to give them $3000 in entertainment gifts per year (you know .... ipod, xbox, games, car, etc) than to take the effort to try to influence their priorities.And then there's the whole thing that we should just let kids do wha tthey want and what comes natural and not "force" our "beliefs" on them... which apparently includes education, drugs, religion, morals, ethics, family values, holidays, food choices, etc.
Basically, kids should grow up by themselves!
(and "by themselves" we mean "by the government/public school system")</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112</parent>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_58</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527468
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528764
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_35</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527508
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529116
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529124
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532912
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_25</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527468
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528548
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_59</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527230
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527824
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528160
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527212
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527840
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_32</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527468
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30531294
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_49</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527398
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527716
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_56</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527468
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528242
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527268
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30533716
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_33</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528044
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528862
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_61</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527368
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528370
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_24</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527238
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527686
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_23</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527468
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30531702
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527468
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527990
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_48</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527880
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532758
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_30</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527468
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528572
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_53</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527508
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529280
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_60</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527212
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527754
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_43</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527468
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528686
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_17</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527404
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532836
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_22</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527212
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527728
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532774
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_50</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527508
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528438
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532598
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_36</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528626
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527404
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532926
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527238
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527848
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_51</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528720
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_42</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527468
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30531334
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_37</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527212
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527768
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_41</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527346
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532566
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_15</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527404
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532342
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_29</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527346
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529242
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_34</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529124
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532300
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_57</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527444
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528002
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528762
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527242
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527474
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_47</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527346
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528682
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_40</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527398
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527586
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30535288
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_26</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527398
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527850
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_54</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527346
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529294
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_28</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527368
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529260
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_31</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527444
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528066
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_27</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527398
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529794
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_18</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527224
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529196
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_21</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527412
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527366
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532548
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_55</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527502
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527368
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529144
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527346
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528536
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_46</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527242
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528868
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_62</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527346
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30534922
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_45</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527444
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30533604
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_19</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527884
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_52</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527224
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532964
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_13</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527224
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30530114
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30533914
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_38</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527238
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528068
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_20</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527404
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527790
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527346
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528752
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_16</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527398
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527966
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527368
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529398
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527346
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528958
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_39</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527684
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_22_1754258_44</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527440
</commentlist>
</thread>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527702
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527230
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527824
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528160
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.30</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527838
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527710
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.24</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527868
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527212
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527768
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527754
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527728
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532774
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527840
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.22</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527468
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528686
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527990
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30531702
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30531294
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528764
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528572
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528548
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528242
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30531334
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.19</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528082
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527664
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.17</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527238
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528068
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527848
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527686
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527242
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527474
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528868
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529832
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.28</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527346
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529242
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528958
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528682
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30534922
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528536
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532566
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529294
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528752
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.18</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527268
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30533716
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.29</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529240
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.23</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527224
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532964
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30530114
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30533914
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529196
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.26</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527366
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532548
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527448
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527112
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527398
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527850
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527586
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30535288
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527716
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527966
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529794
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527502
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527412
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527440
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527880
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532758
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528626
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528720
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527884
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528762
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527684
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527404
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532342
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532836
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527790
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532926
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.20</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528030
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527300
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.21</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527368
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529144
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528370
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529260
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529398
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.15</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527508
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528438
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532598
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529116
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529280
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.13</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529228
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.27</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527444
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528066
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30533604
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528002
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.16</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527760
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527218
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.25</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527504
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527774
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.31</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30529124
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532912
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30532300
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30527932
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_22_1754258.7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528044
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1754258.30528862
</commentlist>
</conversation>
