<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_12_22_1738210</id>
	<title>How Can I Contribute To Open Source?</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1261476900000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="mailto:toby.richards@net" rel="nofollow">rtobyr</a> writes <i>"I work for a state government agency. That means we can't donate money, because it's a 'gift of public funds.' I had the idea to put up a Web page stating that we 'use the following free software to save tax dollars,' as a way to help spread the word about open source software, but management calls this an 'endorsement.' A mirror server is a no-go as well. I'm certainly not a talented enough programmer to help with development. I've donated $10 here and there out of my own pocket, but I'm hoping you Slashdotters have some creative ideas about how my organization could give something back to the teams that create free software we benefit so much from."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>rtobyr writes " I work for a state government agency .
That means we ca n't donate money , because it 's a 'gift of public funds .
' I had the idea to put up a Web page stating that we 'use the following free software to save tax dollars, ' as a way to help spread the word about open source software , but management calls this an 'endorsement .
' A mirror server is a no-go as well .
I 'm certainly not a talented enough programmer to help with development .
I 've donated $ 10 here and there out of my own pocket , but I 'm hoping you Slashdotters have some creative ideas about how my organization could give something back to the teams that create free software we benefit so much from .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>rtobyr writes "I work for a state government agency.
That means we can't donate money, because it's a 'gift of public funds.
' I had the idea to put up a Web page stating that we 'use the following free software to save tax dollars,' as a way to help spread the word about open source software, but management calls this an 'endorsement.
' A mirror server is a no-go as well.
I'm certainly not a talented enough programmer to help with development.
I've donated $10 here and there out of my own pocket, but I'm hoping you Slashdotters have some creative ideas about how my organization could give something back to the teams that create free software we benefit so much from.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530776</id>
	<title>Re:You're doing it wrong.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261484580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;If you believe that your manager is wrong, go to his boss.</p><p>Get bad performance reviews much?</p><p>Going over your bosses' head on any signficant matter is pretty much the nuclear option and generally results in either you or him losing a job.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; If you believe that your manager is wrong , go to his boss.Get bad performance reviews much ? Going over your bosses ' head on any signficant matter is pretty much the nuclear option and generally results in either you or him losing a job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;If you believe that your manager is wrong, go to his boss.Get bad performance reviews much?Going over your bosses' head on any signficant matter is pretty much the nuclear option and generally results in either you or him losing a job.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530276</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530694</id>
	<title>Re:"Contributing" is impossible</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261484100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>there was a fascinating story on the BBC last week (waiting for someone else to provide the link) about the value that people put into society compared ot how much they're paid. Hospital cleaners put in &pound;12 for every &pound;1 paid, tax lawyers take out &pound;47. Tasty, huh?</p><p>Though, I would disagree that creating weapons is necessarily harmful. Having powerful weapons scares other people off into not starting wars (viz. strong countries do not get attacked), wars are bad for everyone, ergo sufficient weapons to deter wars are good.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>there was a fascinating story on the BBC last week ( waiting for someone else to provide the link ) about the value that people put into society compared ot how much they 're paid .
Hospital cleaners put in   12 for every   1 paid , tax lawyers take out   47 .
Tasty , huh ? Though , I would disagree that creating weapons is necessarily harmful .
Having powerful weapons scares other people off into not starting wars ( viz .
strong countries do not get attacked ) , wars are bad for everyone , ergo sufficient weapons to deter wars are good .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>there was a fascinating story on the BBC last week (waiting for someone else to provide the link) about the value that people put into society compared ot how much they're paid.
Hospital cleaners put in £12 for every £1 paid, tax lawyers take out £47.
Tasty, huh?Though, I would disagree that creating weapons is necessarily harmful.
Having powerful weapons scares other people off into not starting wars (viz.
strong countries do not get attacked), wars are bad for everyone, ergo sufficient weapons to deter wars are good.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530308</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530000</id>
	<title>Get others in Gov to use it</title>
	<author>Faizdog</author>
	<datestamp>1261480800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The knowledge that government agencies are using open source tools probably does a lot to legitimize such software.  Even if you can't publicize it, you can probably let other government agencies/depts know what you use and how it helps you and how it helps with your budget (crucially important to every government entity) and encourage them to adopt similar practices; hell help them out with doing so and making the transition.</p><p>Eventually, the word will get out through suppliers, vendors, potential news articles, etc and will do more to help the movement than small monetary donations.  Whaddya mean that program x is unreliable, the fire dept/tax agency/welfare dept, etc uses it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The knowledge that government agencies are using open source tools probably does a lot to legitimize such software .
Even if you ca n't publicize it , you can probably let other government agencies/depts know what you use and how it helps you and how it helps with your budget ( crucially important to every government entity ) and encourage them to adopt similar practices ; hell help them out with doing so and making the transition.Eventually , the word will get out through suppliers , vendors , potential news articles , etc and will do more to help the movement than small monetary donations .
Whaddya mean that program x is unreliable , the fire dept/tax agency/welfare dept , etc uses it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The knowledge that government agencies are using open source tools probably does a lot to legitimize such software.
Even if you can't publicize it, you can probably let other government agencies/depts know what you use and how it helps you and how it helps with your budget (crucially important to every government entity) and encourage them to adopt similar practices; hell help them out with doing so and making the transition.Eventually, the word will get out through suppliers, vendors, potential news articles, etc and will do more to help the movement than small monetary donations.
Whaddya mean that program x is unreliable, the fire dept/tax agency/welfare dept, etc uses it?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30533930</id>
	<title>Re:You're doing it wrong.</title>
	<author>orasio</author>
	<datestamp>1259754840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, I don't know about the US, but my country has laws about transparency that say you should say what you do with taxpayers money.<br>Government organizations need to have a website where they publish that kind of info. It's easy to make the case that you are supposed to tell the public what software you are using, so they have an idea of how you invest your resources.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , I do n't know about the US , but my country has laws about transparency that say you should say what you do with taxpayers money.Government organizations need to have a website where they publish that kind of info .
It 's easy to make the case that you are supposed to tell the public what software you are using , so they have an idea of how you invest your resources .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, I don't know about the US, but my country has laws about transparency that say you should say what you do with taxpayers money.Government organizations need to have a website where they publish that kind of info.
It's easy to make the case that you are supposed to tell the public what software you are using, so they have an idea of how you invest your resources.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30529984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530680</id>
	<title>Re:"Contributing" is impossible</title>
	<author>BobMcD</author>
	<datestamp>1261483980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wonder what universal truth you can use to make these judgements, where everyone would automatically agree?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>but a lot of persons today earn money without doing any useful work (e.g. they work for advertisment - creating artificial needs)</p></div><p>If I ever invent something interesting, I hope someone with better skills than I have can get people to understand what it is, and to buy it.  I hope they get paid for their trouble.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>or by doing harmful work (creating weapons, destroying the environment, etc...)</p></div><p>Next time one of our soldiers pulls the trigger on his or her rifle, I hope the round fires.  I hope that weapon was made with care and pride, and I hope the people who made it got paid to do so.  Likewise, I hope the folks burning all that coal at my local power plant also receive a paycheck this week.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>or doing no work at all (just cashing in on their portfolio).</p></div><p>When my invention makes me rich, I hope my children inherit what I don't get around to using.  I hope people like you don't get to decide what's better done with the money I earned.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder what universal truth you can use to make these judgements , where everyone would automatically agree ? but a lot of persons today earn money without doing any useful work ( e.g .
they work for advertisment - creating artificial needs ) If I ever invent something interesting , I hope someone with better skills than I have can get people to understand what it is , and to buy it .
I hope they get paid for their trouble.or by doing harmful work ( creating weapons , destroying the environment , etc... ) Next time one of our soldiers pulls the trigger on his or her rifle , I hope the round fires .
I hope that weapon was made with care and pride , and I hope the people who made it got paid to do so .
Likewise , I hope the folks burning all that coal at my local power plant also receive a paycheck this week.or doing no work at all ( just cashing in on their portfolio ) .When my invention makes me rich , I hope my children inherit what I do n't get around to using .
I hope people like you do n't get to decide what 's better done with the money I earned .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder what universal truth you can use to make these judgements, where everyone would automatically agree?but a lot of persons today earn money without doing any useful work (e.g.
they work for advertisment - creating artificial needs)If I ever invent something interesting, I hope someone with better skills than I have can get people to understand what it is, and to buy it.
I hope they get paid for their trouble.or by doing harmful work (creating weapons, destroying the environment, etc...)Next time one of our soldiers pulls the trigger on his or her rifle, I hope the round fires.
I hope that weapon was made with care and pride, and I hope the people who made it got paid to do so.
Likewise, I hope the folks burning all that coal at my local power plant also receive a paycheck this week.or doing no work at all (just cashing in on their portfolio).When my invention makes me rich, I hope my children inherit what I don't get around to using.
I hope people like you don't get to decide what's better done with the money I earned.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530308</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30532116</id>
	<title>Re:You're doing it wrong.</title>
	<author>Karnje</author>
	<datestamp>1261496940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is good point this should be modded up. I see no problem is setting up a mirror. I don't think it's the best use of funds to support open source, but it does help.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is good point this should be modded up .
I see no problem is setting up a mirror .
I do n't think it 's the best use of funds to support open source , but it does help .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is good point this should be modded up.
I see no problem is setting up a mirror.
I don't think it's the best use of funds to support open source, but it does help.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530548</id>
	<title>free software does not imply price=0</title>
	<author>Shompol</author>
	<datestamp>1261483260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>From <a href="http://www.gnu.org/" title="gnu.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.gnu.org/</a> [gnu.org]:
<br> <br>
<b> <i>&ldquo;Free software&rdquo; is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of &ldquo;free&rdquo; as in &ldquo;free speech&rdquo;, not as in &ldquo;free beer&rdquo;.</i></b> 
<br> <br>
Ask the software creator what is his suggested price is, and mark it as "payment for software", not as "donation" in the books. It's that simple.</htmltext>
<tokenext>From http : //www.gnu.org/ [ gnu.org ] :    Free software    is a matter of liberty , not price .
To understand the concept , you should think of    free    as in    free speech    , not as in    free beer    .
Ask the software creator what is his suggested price is , and mark it as " payment for software " , not as " donation " in the books .
It 's that simple .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From http://www.gnu.org/ [gnu.org]:
 
 “Free software” is a matter of liberty, not price.
To understand the concept, you should think of “free” as in “free speech”, not as in “free beer”.
Ask the software creator what is his suggested price is, and mark it as "payment for software", not as "donation" in the books.
It's that simple.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530038</id>
	<title>Bug Reports</title>
	<author>thePsychologist</author>
	<datestamp>1261480920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Use it, submit bug reports, and participate on forums. When you can, push for more open-source to be used in your organisation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Use it , submit bug reports , and participate on forums .
When you can , push for more open-source to be used in your organisation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Use it, submit bug reports, and participate on forums.
When you can, push for more open-source to be used in your organisation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531640</id>
	<title>Re:Pay for your free licenses</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261491540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This means you could for-instance switch from Windows to KDE on 100 desktops and offer the KDE project the bargain basement fee of $10 per PC, per year to deliver the desktop the way you like and respond to concerns.</p></div><p>100 desktops x $10/desktop = $1000</p><p>Exactly how much support is that paltry $1000 going to get them from the KDE project?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This means you could for-instance switch from Windows to KDE on 100 desktops and offer the KDE project the bargain basement fee of $ 10 per PC , per year to deliver the desktop the way you like and respond to concerns.100 desktops x $ 10/desktop = $ 1000Exactly how much support is that paltry $ 1000 going to get them from the KDE project ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This means you could for-instance switch from Windows to KDE on 100 desktops and offer the KDE project the bargain basement fee of $10 per PC, per year to deliver the desktop the way you like and respond to concerns.100 desktops x $10/desktop = $1000Exactly how much support is that paltry $1000 going to get them from the KDE project?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530432</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530100</id>
	<title>Endorsement or Truth?</title>
	<author>RobertM1968</author>
	<datestamp>1261481220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Besides the good suggestions above, I am curious about this part:

</p><p><div class="quote"><p>I had the idea to put up a Web page stating that we 'use the following free software to save tax dollars,' as a way to help spread the word about open source software, but management calls this an 'endorsement.'</p> </div><p>Technically, if it is true ("you" are selecting free/open source software to save tax dollars, and there is a statement someplace in the govt documents indicating that is part of the reason for the choices made) then endorsement or not, it's public information, and I do not see why stating it, if worded correctly (to properly indicate the reason such choices were made) would run afoul of anything.

</p><p>The government has in the past made statements on how it has or plans on saving money. The wording of such a statement though is probably key to ensuring it does not run afoul with any other rules and laws (also assuming that such a statement is both (a) true and (b) indicated in some public government document).

</p><p>But that's just my opinion - and regardless of whether it is correct, it still in no way guarantees you will keep your job after making such a statement on a govt or related site.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Besides the good suggestions above , I am curious about this part : I had the idea to put up a Web page stating that we 'use the following free software to save tax dollars, ' as a way to help spread the word about open source software , but management calls this an 'endorsement .
' Technically , if it is true ( " you " are selecting free/open source software to save tax dollars , and there is a statement someplace in the govt documents indicating that is part of the reason for the choices made ) then endorsement or not , it 's public information , and I do not see why stating it , if worded correctly ( to properly indicate the reason such choices were made ) would run afoul of anything .
The government has in the past made statements on how it has or plans on saving money .
The wording of such a statement though is probably key to ensuring it does not run afoul with any other rules and laws ( also assuming that such a statement is both ( a ) true and ( b ) indicated in some public government document ) .
But that 's just my opinion - and regardless of whether it is correct , it still in no way guarantees you will keep your job after making such a statement on a govt or related site .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Besides the good suggestions above, I am curious about this part:

I had the idea to put up a Web page stating that we 'use the following free software to save tax dollars,' as a way to help spread the word about open source software, but management calls this an 'endorsement.
' Technically, if it is true ("you" are selecting free/open source software to save tax dollars, and there is a statement someplace in the govt documents indicating that is part of the reason for the choices made) then endorsement or not, it's public information, and I do not see why stating it, if worded correctly (to properly indicate the reason such choices were made) would run afoul of anything.
The government has in the past made statements on how it has or plans on saving money.
The wording of such a statement though is probably key to ensuring it does not run afoul with any other rules and laws (also assuming that such a statement is both (a) true and (b) indicated in some public government document).
But that's just my opinion - and regardless of whether it is correct, it still in no way guarantees you will keep your job after making such a statement on a govt or related site.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531174</id>
	<title>Re:Endorsement or Truth?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261487280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One thing I'd check with your security people before publishing any list of internal apps, there's a reason the investigate/gather info is the first and biggest step when doing any VAPT work.</p><p>Giving that info out would help immensely with targetted attacks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One thing I 'd check with your security people before publishing any list of internal apps , there 's a reason the investigate/gather info is the first and biggest step when doing any VAPT work.Giving that info out would help immensely with targetted attacks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One thing I'd check with your security people before publishing any list of internal apps, there's a reason the investigate/gather info is the first and biggest step when doing any VAPT work.Giving that info out would help immensely with targetted attacks.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530100</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30534068</id>
	<title>Hire a programmer</title>
	<author>Stephen Nelson</author>
	<datestamp>1259757900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why not employ someone to work on one of the projects you appreciate? Ideally, someone who already works on it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why not employ someone to work on one of the projects you appreciate ?
Ideally , someone who already works on it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why not employ someone to work on one of the projects you appreciate?
Ideally, someone who already works on it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530808</id>
	<title>Re:Pay for your free licenses</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261484820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>It really irritates me when sites break links for no real reason... The link you point to doesn't use actual links to the pages with the data on them for the listed projects, which prevents me from firing off the pages for the projects I thought were interesting in other tabs.  Other than that, it's a cool idea.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It really irritates me when sites break links for no real reason... The link you point to does n't use actual links to the pages with the data on them for the listed projects , which prevents me from firing off the pages for the projects I thought were interesting in other tabs .
Other than that , it 's a cool idea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It really irritates me when sites break links for no real reason... The link you point to doesn't use actual links to the pages with the data on them for the listed projects, which prevents me from firing off the pages for the projects I thought were interesting in other tabs.
Other than that, it's a cool idea.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30529950</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30533426</id>
	<title>The obvious response</title>
	<author>ryzvonusef</author>
	<datestamp>1259787480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Q: How Can I Contribute To Open Source?<br>A: By RTFM<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Q : How Can I Contribute To Open Source ? A : By RTFM : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Q: How Can I Contribute To Open Source?A: By RTFM :)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30532802</id>
	<title>Re:Sponsor it</title>
	<author>squidfood</author>
	<datestamp>1261506420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Many OSS projects offer prefered "development direction" for donors, though. If you want a feature in a certain tool, get into contact with the maker and see whether the project offers this option.</p></div><p>Beware, though, that anything like this would likely have to be structured like (would actually be a) government contract with timelines, deliverables, and accountability.  It would be difficult to get away with a mere "donate for a preferred direction."  (If the developers are up for committing themselves to such a contract, no worries, but don't lead them to think there aren't necessary strings attached).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Many OSS projects offer prefered " development direction " for donors , though .
If you want a feature in a certain tool , get into contact with the maker and see whether the project offers this option.Beware , though , that anything like this would likely have to be structured like ( would actually be a ) government contract with timelines , deliverables , and accountability .
It would be difficult to get away with a mere " donate for a preferred direction .
" ( If the developers are up for committing themselves to such a contract , no worries , but do n't lead them to think there are n't necessary strings attached ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many OSS projects offer prefered "development direction" for donors, though.
If you want a feature in a certain tool, get into contact with the maker and see whether the project offers this option.Beware, though, that anything like this would likely have to be structured like (would actually be a) government contract with timelines, deliverables, and accountability.
It would be difficult to get away with a mere "donate for a preferred direction.
"  (If the developers are up for committing themselves to such a contract, no worries, but don't lead them to think there aren't necessary strings attached).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530414</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530386</id>
	<title>Re:Get others in Gov to use it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261482540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have worked in and around government agencies most of my IT career, mainly as a IT security based consultant/developer or IT Infrastructre. I can not think of a single GOVERNMENT agency that would be considered by the rest of the community or even for that matter other agencies as a good example of how to run IT, even the ones using Open Source software. If you honestly believe when it comes to IT that government entities and Agencies are significantly interested in how some utility affects there costs then I have a bridge to sell you too.
<br> <br>
The reality of Government IT is they usually have a budget, they want to spend ALL of that budget otherwise it gets reduced the following year, there are agencies that buy packaged software that will sit on shelves never opened just so they can be sure to spend enough of there budget not to have it reduced the following year.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have worked in and around government agencies most of my IT career , mainly as a IT security based consultant/developer or IT Infrastructre .
I can not think of a single GOVERNMENT agency that would be considered by the rest of the community or even for that matter other agencies as a good example of how to run IT , even the ones using Open Source software .
If you honestly believe when it comes to IT that government entities and Agencies are significantly interested in how some utility affects there costs then I have a bridge to sell you too .
The reality of Government IT is they usually have a budget , they want to spend ALL of that budget otherwise it gets reduced the following year , there are agencies that buy packaged software that will sit on shelves never opened just so they can be sure to spend enough of there budget not to have it reduced the following year .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have worked in and around government agencies most of my IT career, mainly as a IT security based consultant/developer or IT Infrastructre.
I can not think of a single GOVERNMENT agency that would be considered by the rest of the community or even for that matter other agencies as a good example of how to run IT, even the ones using Open Source software.
If you honestly believe when it comes to IT that government entities and Agencies are significantly interested in how some utility affects there costs then I have a bridge to sell you too.
The reality of Government IT is they usually have a budget, they want to spend ALL of that budget otherwise it gets reduced the following year, there are agencies that buy packaged software that will sit on shelves never opened just so they can be sure to spend enough of there budget not to have it reduced the following year.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530000</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530558</id>
	<title>Re:You're doing it wrong.</title>
	<author>SydShamino</author>
	<datestamp>1261483380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Indeed. Government should be as efficient as possible. As a public servant, your responsibility is to the taxpayers. You should offer only those contributions which do not increase the burden on those taxpayers, or which <i>directly</i> benefit them.</p></div><p>It's that <i>direct</i> stipulation that leads to short-sightedness, and ends up costing taxpayers billions in the long run.</p><p>"Oh, well we don't need to shore up these levies in New Orleans.  There's no immediate benefit when there hasn't been a major hurricane in years."</p><p>"Oh, bridges can last a little while longer than designed.  We'll just send someone by periodically to do a cursory check.  That's a lot cheaper than replacing all those 1930s projects."</p><p>"Who cares about preventative care.  If you want that, get insurance and go to your doctor.  Never mind that taxpayers will cover you when your problem gets worse and you go to the emergency room uninsured."</p><p>"Regulation is an inefficient burden on commerce.  It's hard to show a direct benefit when you back during a boom and ignore any lessons more than three years old.  Just let it all go, and the publicly-chartered companies will police themselves!"</p><p>I think we have very different opinions on "efficient".  I believe that long-term and indirect benefits can be significantly more efficient than short-term nearsightedness, and the government if anyone should be able to look at the long term.  In this case, for example, he should find a way to fund the projects he uses (such as buying support licenses), because in the long term it will keep the projects active and improving, and save significant cost versus a system redesign due to an EOL/abandoned software product.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Indeed .
Government should be as efficient as possible .
As a public servant , your responsibility is to the taxpayers .
You should offer only those contributions which do not increase the burden on those taxpayers , or which directly benefit them.It 's that direct stipulation that leads to short-sightedness , and ends up costing taxpayers billions in the long run .
" Oh , well we do n't need to shore up these levies in New Orleans .
There 's no immediate benefit when there has n't been a major hurricane in years .
" " Oh , bridges can last a little while longer than designed .
We 'll just send someone by periodically to do a cursory check .
That 's a lot cheaper than replacing all those 1930s projects .
" " Who cares about preventative care .
If you want that , get insurance and go to your doctor .
Never mind that taxpayers will cover you when your problem gets worse and you go to the emergency room uninsured .
" " Regulation is an inefficient burden on commerce .
It 's hard to show a direct benefit when you back during a boom and ignore any lessons more than three years old .
Just let it all go , and the publicly-chartered companies will police themselves !
" I think we have very different opinions on " efficient " .
I believe that long-term and indirect benefits can be significantly more efficient than short-term nearsightedness , and the government if anyone should be able to look at the long term .
In this case , for example , he should find a way to fund the projects he uses ( such as buying support licenses ) , because in the long term it will keep the projects active and improving , and save significant cost versus a system redesign due to an EOL/abandoned software product .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Indeed.
Government should be as efficient as possible.
As a public servant, your responsibility is to the taxpayers.
You should offer only those contributions which do not increase the burden on those taxpayers, or which directly benefit them.It's that direct stipulation that leads to short-sightedness, and ends up costing taxpayers billions in the long run.
"Oh, well we don't need to shore up these levies in New Orleans.
There's no immediate benefit when there hasn't been a major hurricane in years.
""Oh, bridges can last a little while longer than designed.
We'll just send someone by periodically to do a cursory check.
That's a lot cheaper than replacing all those 1930s projects.
""Who cares about preventative care.
If you want that, get insurance and go to your doctor.
Never mind that taxpayers will cover you when your problem gets worse and you go to the emergency room uninsured.
""Regulation is an inefficient burden on commerce.
It's hard to show a direct benefit when you back during a boom and ignore any lessons more than three years old.
Just let it all go, and the publicly-chartered companies will police themselves!
"I think we have very different opinions on "efficient".
I believe that long-term and indirect benefits can be significantly more efficient than short-term nearsightedness, and the government if anyone should be able to look at the long term.
In this case, for example, he should find a way to fund the projects he uses (such as buying support licenses), because in the long term it will keep the projects active and improving, and save significant cost versus a system redesign due to an EOL/abandoned software product.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530132</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530372</id>
	<title>Do not underestimate the value</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261482420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>of well written bug reports and RFEs for the projects/products you find useful.</p><p>Perhaps you can collect small bits of usability data from your end users and present cases for improvement.</p><p>While "Nothing says thank you like cash(tm)" it isn't the only option.</p><p>amusing captcha "sharing"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>of well written bug reports and RFEs for the projects/products you find useful.Perhaps you can collect small bits of usability data from your end users and present cases for improvement.While " Nothing says thank you like cash ( tm ) " it is n't the only option.amusing captcha " sharing "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>of well written bug reports and RFEs for the projects/products you find useful.Perhaps you can collect small bits of usability data from your end users and present cases for improvement.While "Nothing says thank you like cash(tm)" it isn't the only option.amusing captcha "sharing"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530110</id>
	<title>lol</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261481280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How did this make main page?</htmltext>
<tokenext>How did this make main page ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How did this make main page?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531420</id>
	<title>Re:You're doing it wrong.</title>
	<author>hedwards</author>
	<datestamp>1261489320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>One of my thoughts was that it would be legitimate to pay a bounty for bugfixes or additional features that are relevant to the agency. If the choice is made well, it can both be efficient for the tax payers and of benefit to those that use the product.</htmltext>
<tokenext>One of my thoughts was that it would be legitimate to pay a bounty for bugfixes or additional features that are relevant to the agency .
If the choice is made well , it can both be efficient for the tax payers and of benefit to those that use the product .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One of my thoughts was that it would be legitimate to pay a bounty for bugfixes or additional features that are relevant to the agency.
If the choice is made well, it can both be efficient for the tax payers and of benefit to those that use the product.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530132</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530540</id>
	<title>Re:You're doing it wrong.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261483200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ummm...tell your (idiot) managers to google "open source in government"...:-)</p><p>Here's a starter:<br>http://goscon.org/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ummm...tell your ( idiot ) managers to google " open source in government " ... : - ) Here 's a starter : http : //goscon.org/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ummm...tell your (idiot) managers to google "open source in government"...:-)Here's a starter:http://goscon.org/</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30529984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530058</id>
	<title>Documentation and boxed CDs!</title>
	<author>oasisbob</author>
	<datestamp>1261481040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At $JOB-- (public university), we had a pair of redundant firewalls running OpenBSD that saved us thousands, and made us very happy.</p><p>It was easy to get approval to buy the OpenBSD CD sets with each release. It was only a few hundred dollars over the course of several years, cheap for us, and better-than-nothing for Theo et al.</p><p>Check to see if the devs have any documentation (O'Reilly books, pay PDFs, etc) for sale. This is another good place to kick in a few bucks, documentation is a legitimate expense and worthwhile investment.</p><p>What bothers me is that some companies (eg ZenOSS) make support SOOOO expensive when you jump from the open-source to commercial version. The price jump for a small business is insane, especially if they're fine without 24/7 support and the features they have already.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At $ JOB-- ( public university ) , we had a pair of redundant firewalls running OpenBSD that saved us thousands , and made us very happy.It was easy to get approval to buy the OpenBSD CD sets with each release .
It was only a few hundred dollars over the course of several years , cheap for us , and better-than-nothing for Theo et al.Check to see if the devs have any documentation ( O'Reilly books , pay PDFs , etc ) for sale .
This is another good place to kick in a few bucks , documentation is a legitimate expense and worthwhile investment.What bothers me is that some companies ( eg ZenOSS ) make support SOOOO expensive when you jump from the open-source to commercial version .
The price jump for a small business is insane , especially if they 're fine without 24/7 support and the features they have already .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At $JOB-- (public university), we had a pair of redundant firewalls running OpenBSD that saved us thousands, and made us very happy.It was easy to get approval to buy the OpenBSD CD sets with each release.
It was only a few hundred dollars over the course of several years, cheap for us, and better-than-nothing for Theo et al.Check to see if the devs have any documentation (O'Reilly books, pay PDFs, etc) for sale.
This is another good place to kick in a few bucks, documentation is a legitimate expense and worthwhile investment.What bothers me is that some companies (eg ZenOSS) make support SOOOO expensive when you jump from the open-source to commercial version.
The price jump for a small business is insane, especially if they're fine without 24/7 support and the features they have already.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530044</id>
	<title>You problem is not that uncommon</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261480980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Many companies try to dictate what their employees can do in their own time with blogs, web sites...
<br>
Whether they are allowed to control you this way or not, the rule is always the same. Do whatever you want and don't get caught.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Many companies try to dictate what their employees can do in their own time with blogs , web sites.. . Whether they are allowed to control you this way or not , the rule is always the same .
Do whatever you want and do n't get caught .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many companies try to dictate what their employees can do in their own time with blogs, web sites...

Whether they are allowed to control you this way or not, the rule is always the same.
Do whatever you want and don't get caught.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530328</id>
	<title>Re:"Contributing" is impossible</title>
	<author>nedlohs</author>
	<datestamp>1261482240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So move somewhere with no taxes (or no tax collection success). A hut in remote Somalia for example.</p><p>Of course I'm not sure how you are going to stop a hundred just as well armed as you men from taking all your stuff what with no government stealing from you to provide law and order.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So move somewhere with no taxes ( or no tax collection success ) .
A hut in remote Somalia for example.Of course I 'm not sure how you are going to stop a hundred just as well armed as you men from taking all your stuff what with no government stealing from you to provide law and order .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So move somewhere with no taxes (or no tax collection success).
A hut in remote Somalia for example.Of course I'm not sure how you are going to stop a hundred just as well armed as you men from taking all your stuff what with no government stealing from you to provide law and order.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531670</id>
	<title>Re:Bug Reports</title>
	<author>refactored</author>
	<datestamp>1261491780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Submit Good Quality bug reports.

Bug Reports are 10 a penny. Submit Good ones.

<ul>
<li> Be exact about versions of the software and related software (distro, kernel etc.)</li>
<li> Produce the smallest possible test case. NEVER say "it just happens when I do something with this 10000 line document I can't let your see."</li>
<li> Be responsive in answering queries in the issue tracker for that issue. Try out patches and workarounds suggested and give feedback.</li>
<li> Report the problem to the correct forum. Understand which is the correct forum. Understand the differences between distros, distro versions and original developer. Try work out if it's a packaging problem or a software problem.</li>
<li> Try the latest version from the original developer. If that fixes the problem, reports this in the distros issue tracker as well.</li>
<li> RTFM.</li>
<li> Report bugs in The Fine Manual, preferably along with a suggested rewording.</li>
<li> Test and Report bugs in Beta releases. Critical bugs reported then will get fixed before release. Bugs reported after release will probably only get fixed in the next release.</li>
</ul></htmltext>
<tokenext>Submit Good Quality bug reports .
Bug Reports are 10 a penny .
Submit Good ones .
Be exact about versions of the software and related software ( distro , kernel etc .
) Produce the smallest possible test case .
NEVER say " it just happens when I do something with this 10000 line document I ca n't let your see .
" Be responsive in answering queries in the issue tracker for that issue .
Try out patches and workarounds suggested and give feedback .
Report the problem to the correct forum .
Understand which is the correct forum .
Understand the differences between distros , distro versions and original developer .
Try work out if it 's a packaging problem or a software problem .
Try the latest version from the original developer .
If that fixes the problem , reports this in the distros issue tracker as well .
RTFM . Report bugs in The Fine Manual , preferably along with a suggested rewording .
Test and Report bugs in Beta releases .
Critical bugs reported then will get fixed before release .
Bugs reported after release will probably only get fixed in the next release .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Submit Good Quality bug reports.
Bug Reports are 10 a penny.
Submit Good ones.
Be exact about versions of the software and related software (distro, kernel etc.
)
 Produce the smallest possible test case.
NEVER say "it just happens when I do something with this 10000 line document I can't let your see.
"
 Be responsive in answering queries in the issue tracker for that issue.
Try out patches and workarounds suggested and give feedback.
Report the problem to the correct forum.
Understand which is the correct forum.
Understand the differences between distros, distro versions and original developer.
Try work out if it's a packaging problem or a software problem.
Try the latest version from the original developer.
If that fixes the problem, reports this in the distros issue tracker as well.
RTFM.
 Report bugs in The Fine Manual, preferably along with a suggested rewording.
Test and Report bugs in Beta releases.
Critical bugs reported then will get fixed before release.
Bugs reported after release will probably only get fixed in the next release.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530038</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531032</id>
	<title>Taking and giving</title>
	<author>Quila</author>
	<datestamp>1261486200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I like the idea of government-funded development open source software.</p><p>Not for charity, not Stallman's open source tax, but when the resulting software fulfills a specific government requirement.</p><p>This way the tax dollars don't just go to some company in the form of licenses, but the results of the government spending are given back directly to the people in the form of code and a (hopefully) better free application for them to use.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I like the idea of government-funded development open source software.Not for charity , not Stallman 's open source tax , but when the resulting software fulfills a specific government requirement.This way the tax dollars do n't just go to some company in the form of licenses , but the results of the government spending are given back directly to the people in the form of code and a ( hopefully ) better free application for them to use .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I like the idea of government-funded development open source software.Not for charity, not Stallman's open source tax, but when the resulting software fulfills a specific government requirement.This way the tax dollars don't just go to some company in the form of licenses, but the results of the government spending are given back directly to the people in the form of code and a (hopefully) better free application for them to use.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530414</id>
	<title>Sponsor it</title>
	<author>Opportunist</author>
	<datestamp>1261482600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You may not be allowed to directly simply give money to OSS. Many OSS projects offer prefered "development direction" for donors, though. If you want a feature in a certain tool, get into contact with the maker and see whether the project offers this option.</p><p>You're not simply giving money away. You are buying a feature. A feature that will be publically available and not exclusive to you, that's a given, but then again, I thought government spending was supposed to be done to make the public benefit from it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You may not be allowed to directly simply give money to OSS .
Many OSS projects offer prefered " development direction " for donors , though .
If you want a feature in a certain tool , get into contact with the maker and see whether the project offers this option.You 're not simply giving money away .
You are buying a feature .
A feature that will be publically available and not exclusive to you , that 's a given , but then again , I thought government spending was supposed to be done to make the public benefit from it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You may not be allowed to directly simply give money to OSS.
Many OSS projects offer prefered "development direction" for donors, though.
If you want a feature in a certain tool, get into contact with the maker and see whether the project offers this option.You're not simply giving money away.
You are buying a feature.
A feature that will be publically available and not exclusive to you, that's a given, but then again, I thought government spending was supposed to be done to make the public benefit from it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531860</id>
	<title>Contribute by making new slashdot GNU icon</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261493820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Contribute by making new slashdot GNU icon, the one they have now looks like a turd.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Contribute by making new slashdot GNU icon , the one they have now looks like a turd .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Contribute by making new slashdot GNU icon, the one they have now looks like a turd.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30532236</id>
	<title>Re:"Contributing" is impossible</title>
	<author>EvolutionsPeak</author>
	<datestamp>1261498920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are so wrong that I think you might be a Troll, but I'll bite anyway.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>where of course you assume that the person who had the money in the first place really deserved to have it. </p></div><p>Whether or not the person deserved the money, the government forcibly takes the money away.  Whether or not the person deserved the money is up to the person who gave him the money, not to the government or you (thank god).</p><p><div class="quote"><p>but a lot of persons today earn money without doing any useful work (e.g. they work for advertisment - creating artificial needs)</p></div><p>It's useful to the people paying them.  Advertising can also inform people of solutions to their "real" needs.  I'm not quite sure what an "artificial" need is.</p><p><div class="quote"><p> or by doing harmful work (creating weapons, destroying the environment, etc...) or doing no work at all (just cashing in on their portfolio).</p></div><p>Weapons for self defense, no one runs a "destroy the environment" business, investing provides capital for people who produce things.  These are terrible examples and are what make me think you're a troll.</p><p><div class="quote"><p> the reason why some can earn a lot of money for nothing is in our system of society. this is an artificial system of laws and rules and it allows some to take the money from other persons without giving them anything useful in return.</p></div><p>Actually, the government is pretty much the only group that can force you to give them something without getting anything useful in return.  You don't have to pay money to advertisers, weapon makers, or any other individual business unless you choose to.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>so taking the money from people that have that money because of some artificial rules by an other rule (the tax system) is just one way to try to compensate the many faults of the capitalist system.....</p></div><p>You are implying that a fault of the capitalist system is that it is "artificial".  That is silly.  There are many faults of the capitalist (or at least the pure free market) system, but the fact that it is "artificial" is not one of them.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>mond</p></div><p>Your name is attached to your post.  You don't need to add it again.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You are so wrong that I think you might be a Troll , but I 'll bite anyway.where of course you assume that the person who had the money in the first place really deserved to have it .
Whether or not the person deserved the money , the government forcibly takes the money away .
Whether or not the person deserved the money is up to the person who gave him the money , not to the government or you ( thank god ) .but a lot of persons today earn money without doing any useful work ( e.g .
they work for advertisment - creating artificial needs ) It 's useful to the people paying them .
Advertising can also inform people of solutions to their " real " needs .
I 'm not quite sure what an " artificial " need is .
or by doing harmful work ( creating weapons , destroying the environment , etc... ) or doing no work at all ( just cashing in on their portfolio ) .Weapons for self defense , no one runs a " destroy the environment " business , investing provides capital for people who produce things .
These are terrible examples and are what make me think you 're a troll .
the reason why some can earn a lot of money for nothing is in our system of society .
this is an artificial system of laws and rules and it allows some to take the money from other persons without giving them anything useful in return.Actually , the government is pretty much the only group that can force you to give them something without getting anything useful in return .
You do n't have to pay money to advertisers , weapon makers , or any other individual business unless you choose to.so taking the money from people that have that money because of some artificial rules by an other rule ( the tax system ) is just one way to try to compensate the many faults of the capitalist system.....You are implying that a fault of the capitalist system is that it is " artificial " .
That is silly .
There are many faults of the capitalist ( or at least the pure free market ) system , but the fact that it is " artificial " is not one of them.mondYour name is attached to your post .
You do n't need to add it again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are so wrong that I think you might be a Troll, but I'll bite anyway.where of course you assume that the person who had the money in the first place really deserved to have it.
Whether or not the person deserved the money, the government forcibly takes the money away.
Whether or not the person deserved the money is up to the person who gave him the money, not to the government or you (thank god).but a lot of persons today earn money without doing any useful work (e.g.
they work for advertisment - creating artificial needs)It's useful to the people paying them.
Advertising can also inform people of solutions to their "real" needs.
I'm not quite sure what an "artificial" need is.
or by doing harmful work (creating weapons, destroying the environment, etc...) or doing no work at all (just cashing in on their portfolio).Weapons for self defense, no one runs a "destroy the environment" business, investing provides capital for people who produce things.
These are terrible examples and are what make me think you're a troll.
the reason why some can earn a lot of money for nothing is in our system of society.
this is an artificial system of laws and rules and it allows some to take the money from other persons without giving them anything useful in return.Actually, the government is pretty much the only group that can force you to give them something without getting anything useful in return.
You don't have to pay money to advertisers, weapon makers, or any other individual business unless you choose to.so taking the money from people that have that money because of some artificial rules by an other rule (the tax system) is just one way to try to compensate the many faults of the capitalist system.....You are implying that a fault of the capitalist system is that it is "artificial".
That is silly.
There are many faults of the capitalist (or at least the pure free market) system, but the fact that it is "artificial" is not one of them.mondYour name is attached to your post.
You don't need to add it again.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530308</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531976</id>
	<title>Try these things</title>
	<author>mattr</author>
	<datestamp>1261495500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Help with documentation.<br>Give presentations about the solutions you have and how you have saved much money with these open source apps.<br>Tell open source vendors whose apps you use, that it was very helpful, and why, so they can sell to similar government offices.<br>Tell colleagues and people in other offices about it.<br>Keep track of how much you are spending for commercial, and for open source software. Later write a report on cost of ownership.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Help with documentation.Give presentations about the solutions you have and how you have saved much money with these open source apps.Tell open source vendors whose apps you use , that it was very helpful , and why , so they can sell to similar government offices.Tell colleagues and people in other offices about it.Keep track of how much you are spending for commercial , and for open source software .
Later write a report on cost of ownership .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Help with documentation.Give presentations about the solutions you have and how you have saved much money with these open source apps.Tell open source vendors whose apps you use, that it was very helpful, and why, so they can sell to similar government offices.Tell colleagues and people in other offices about it.Keep track of how much you are spending for commercial, and for open source software.
Later write a report on cost of ownership.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530998</id>
	<title>Question needs clarification...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261485960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are you asking how you can personally contribute or how you can contribute government resources? For personal contribution, many projects accept monetary donations. If you're asking how to divert gov't resources to such projects, I would like to remind you that that probably isn't something you're supposed to be doing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are you asking how you can personally contribute or how you can contribute government resources ?
For personal contribution , many projects accept monetary donations .
If you 're asking how to divert gov't resources to such projects , I would like to remind you that that probably is n't something you 're supposed to be doing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are you asking how you can personally contribute or how you can contribute government resources?
For personal contribution, many projects accept monetary donations.
If you're asking how to divert gov't resources to such projects, I would like to remind you that that probably isn't something you're supposed to be doing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530598</id>
	<title>Re:Get others in Gov to use it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261483620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>perhaps he could go around letting project know that they use their software and thanking them. He may not be allowed to put up a webpage saying "we use X", but telling the people at X that they do so that they can say "Y uses our software" is the other side of the coin, and may be worth asking about.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>perhaps he could go around letting project know that they use their software and thanking them .
He may not be allowed to put up a webpage saying " we use X " , but telling the people at X that they do so that they can say " Y uses our software " is the other side of the coin , and may be worth asking about .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>perhaps he could go around letting project know that they use their software and thanking them.
He may not be allowed to put up a webpage saying "we use X", but telling the people at X that they do so that they can say "Y uses our software" is the other side of the coin, and may be worth asking about.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530000</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531714</id>
	<title>But they ARE endorsing it!</title>
	<author>Requiem18th</author>
	<datestamp>1261492260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The very use of a product constitutes endorsement, unless you claim you are just testing the product, your continued use of it constitutes endorsement, and yet not having the honesty to accept it!</p><p>Like somebody else said, you should talk about it in conferences and, I'd suggest blog about it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The very use of a product constitutes endorsement , unless you claim you are just testing the product , your continued use of it constitutes endorsement , and yet not having the honesty to accept it ! Like somebody else said , you should talk about it in conferences and , I 'd suggest blog about it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The very use of a product constitutes endorsement, unless you claim you are just testing the product, your continued use of it constitutes endorsement, and yet not having the honesty to accept it!Like somebody else said, you should talk about it in conferences and, I'd suggest blog about it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530100</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30532246</id>
	<title>Buy Support</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261499100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Buy support, but not necessarily from the company who produced the software. Often, those companies have decided to release 2 versions of the software, yet still get called Open Source. It's almost like turning into an Obama democrat<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... after the fact.</p><p>I could name-names, but why. If the code used for the "enterprise" version doesn't match the code used for the "community edition", I have issues with the company. If the enterprise modules don't eventually end up in the community edition, that's another way to know they are less than ideal OSS companies.</p><p>Look at OpenNMS - the same code and tools are provided to everyone. Nice. There support pricing is posted and reasonable for what you're actually getting.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Buy support , but not necessarily from the company who produced the software .
Often , those companies have decided to release 2 versions of the software , yet still get called Open Source .
It 's almost like turning into an Obama democrat ... after the fact.I could name-names , but why .
If the code used for the " enterprise " version does n't match the code used for the " community edition " , I have issues with the company .
If the enterprise modules do n't eventually end up in the community edition , that 's another way to know they are less than ideal OSS companies.Look at OpenNMS - the same code and tools are provided to everyone .
Nice. There support pricing is posted and reasonable for what you 're actually getting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Buy support, but not necessarily from the company who produced the software.
Often, those companies have decided to release 2 versions of the software, yet still get called Open Source.
It's almost like turning into an Obama democrat ... after the fact.I could name-names, but why.
If the code used for the "enterprise" version doesn't match the code used for the "community edition", I have issues with the company.
If the enterprise modules don't eventually end up in the community edition, that's another way to know they are less than ideal OSS companies.Look at OpenNMS - the same code and tools are provided to everyone.
Nice. There support pricing is posted and reasonable for what you're actually getting.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30532544</id>
	<title>Re:Pay for your free licenses</title>
	<author>clarkkent09</author>
	<datestamp>1261502520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Can't believe this was modded up. What part of it's not his money you don't understand?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ca n't believe this was modded up .
What part of it 's not his money you do n't understand ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can't believe this was modded up.
What part of it's not his money you don't understand?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30529950</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531258</id>
	<title>Re:You're doing it wrong.</title>
	<author>Tynin</author>
	<datestamp>1261487880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You sound like a Microsoft junkie.  I suppose you think opensource is, "evil evil bad!"?</p></div><p>The deftness of your cunning response, and the visuals they invoke make me think you've really been enjoying your Jump to Conclusions Mat.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You sound like a Microsoft junkie .
I suppose you think opensource is , " evil evil bad !
" ? The deftness of your cunning response , and the visuals they invoke make me think you 've really been enjoying your Jump to Conclusions Mat .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You sound like a Microsoft junkie.
I suppose you think opensource is, "evil evil bad!
"?The deftness of your cunning response, and the visuals they invoke make me think you've really been enjoying your Jump to Conclusions Mat.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530494</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30535604</id>
	<title>reframe: how can i get my employer to contribute?</title>
	<author>jnowlan</author>
	<datestamp>1259771880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'd like to reframe the question as above.
<br> <br>
We use OSS where I work (uni.) but a lot of it is through the back door. When our CIO started he disparaged OSS so that the mgr's were wary of suggesting/promoting it. Yet in all the hallway conversations people are pushing it and it has become a significant proportion of our infrastructure, but I do not think it gets the support it deserves.
<br> <br>
The vendors get the money but we use OSS/Free software when it is appropriate. So the question I&rsquo;ve been pondering is how to get the org. to recognize this increasingly obvious fact through more financial support for the projects that are really making a difference.
<br> <br>
Of course one big question is: when is OSS/Free software appropriate? Often we rely on vendors because they provide a complete solution where the alternatives just don&rsquo;t measure up. It&rsquo;s hard to argue against a COTS solution here, but I feel it often abdicates responsibility for a solution  in favor of a check box against the problem.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd like to reframe the question as above .
We use OSS where I work ( uni .
) but a lot of it is through the back door .
When our CIO started he disparaged OSS so that the mgr 's were wary of suggesting/promoting it .
Yet in all the hallway conversations people are pushing it and it has become a significant proportion of our infrastructure , but I do not think it gets the support it deserves .
The vendors get the money but we use OSS/Free software when it is appropriate .
So the question I    ve been pondering is how to get the org .
to recognize this increasingly obvious fact through more financial support for the projects that are really making a difference .
Of course one big question is : when is OSS/Free software appropriate ?
Often we rely on vendors because they provide a complete solution where the alternatives just don    t measure up .
It    s hard to argue against a COTS solution here , but I feel it often abdicates responsibility for a solution in favor of a check box against the problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd like to reframe the question as above.
We use OSS where I work (uni.
) but a lot of it is through the back door.
When our CIO started he disparaged OSS so that the mgr's were wary of suggesting/promoting it.
Yet in all the hallway conversations people are pushing it and it has become a significant proportion of our infrastructure, but I do not think it gets the support it deserves.
The vendors get the money but we use OSS/Free software when it is appropriate.
So the question I’ve been pondering is how to get the org.
to recognize this increasingly obvious fact through more financial support for the projects that are really making a difference.
Of course one big question is: when is OSS/Free software appropriate?
Often we rely on vendors because they provide a complete solution where the alternatives just don’t measure up.
It’s hard to argue against a COTS solution here, but I feel it often abdicates responsibility for a solution  in favor of a check box against the problem.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531324</id>
	<title>Re:You're doing it wrong.</title>
	<author>Tynin</author>
	<datestamp>1261488540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Just for the lols I checked solid\_liq history (boring day at work, sorry for the double post, shame on me)... Wow, you've not posted in over a month, and yet you bothered to respond over something as minor as this opinion? Dude, you might be one of the most laid back and relaxed trolls on the entire internet! Bravo!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just for the lols I checked solid \ _liq history ( boring day at work , sorry for the double post , shame on me ) ... Wow , you 've not posted in over a month , and yet you bothered to respond over something as minor as this opinion ?
Dude , you might be one of the most laid back and relaxed trolls on the entire internet !
Bravo !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just for the lols I checked solid\_liq history (boring day at work, sorry for the double post, shame on me)... Wow, you've not posted in over a month, and yet you bothered to respond over something as minor as this opinion?
Dude, you might be one of the most laid back and relaxed trolls on the entire internet!
Bravo!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530494</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530638</id>
	<title>Re:You're doing it wrong.</title>
	<author>bberens</author>
	<datestamp>1261483800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>*shrug* At my company I put it in the suggestion box to support some of the open source projects we use.  The manager pulled it out and got with a few other development departments and all of a sudden several open source projects got a check for several thousand dollars each last year.  I was hoping we'd drop them a $10 spot or something.  Not every work place would do that.</htmltext>
<tokenext>* shrug * At my company I put it in the suggestion box to support some of the open source projects we use .
The manager pulled it out and got with a few other development departments and all of a sudden several open source projects got a check for several thousand dollars each last year .
I was hoping we 'd drop them a $ 10 spot or something .
Not every work place would do that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>*shrug* At my company I put it in the suggestion box to support some of the open source projects we use.
The manager pulled it out and got with a few other development departments and all of a sudden several open source projects got a check for several thousand dollars each last year.
I was hoping we'd drop them a $10 spot or something.
Not every work place would do that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530132</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530096</id>
	<title>Tweak your web page idea.</title>
	<author>seeker\_1us</author>
	<datestamp>1261481220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Bosses don't like the "endorsement" aspect?  Don't worry about it.
</p><p>
Put up a web page saying what software you use, open source, closed source, all of it..  Don't say why you picked it.
</p><p>
Put links to the open source projects.
</p><p>
You don't give it "endorsement," but you do get the software recognized (hmm, they use a webserver named "Apache?")
</p><p>
It's just freedom of information at that point.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bosses do n't like the " endorsement " aspect ?
Do n't worry about it .
Put up a web page saying what software you use , open source , closed source , all of it.. Do n't say why you picked it .
Put links to the open source projects .
You do n't give it " endorsement , " but you do get the software recognized ( hmm , they use a webserver named " Apache ?
" ) It 's just freedom of information at that point .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Bosses don't like the "endorsement" aspect?
Don't worry about it.
Put up a web page saying what software you use, open source, closed source, all of it..  Don't say why you picked it.
Put links to the open source projects.
You don't give it "endorsement," but you do get the software recognized (hmm, they use a webserver named "Apache?
")

It's just freedom of information at that point.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530118</id>
	<title>Pick a great project and sponsor work.</title>
	<author>jk379</author>
	<datestamp>1261481280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Pick a project like bacula (best backup software made to date).  Use it adopt it spread the word.

After that you can support the project, they have a bunch of items on the to do list ( <a href="http://www.bacula.org/misc/Vote-2009.html" title="bacula.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.bacula.org/misc/Vote-2009.html</a> [bacula.org] ).  If one of the items would help your work,  sponsoring project would be a way to help open source software.

-Jason</htmltext>
<tokenext>Pick a project like bacula ( best backup software made to date ) .
Use it adopt it spread the word .
After that you can support the project , they have a bunch of items on the to do list ( http : //www.bacula.org/misc/Vote-2009.html [ bacula.org ] ) .
If one of the items would help your work , sponsoring project would be a way to help open source software .
-Jason</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pick a project like bacula (best backup software made to date).
Use it adopt it spread the word.
After that you can support the project, they have a bunch of items on the to do list ( http://www.bacula.org/misc/Vote-2009.html [bacula.org] ).
If one of the items would help your work,  sponsoring project would be a way to help open source software.
-Jason</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30532264</id>
	<title>Re:Pay for your free licenses</title>
	<author>QuantumRiff</author>
	<datestamp>1261499340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I worked for a college, and gladly bought a handfull of copies of Redhat server for $50 each (which is what redhat sold it to schools at, with no support) when I could have used CentOS (And did use it on my 2 development systems) because I wanted to support Linux.  Windows was a few hundred dollars each for machines that would support that amount of CPU's and Ram, so we were still saving the taxpayers lots of money...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I worked for a college , and gladly bought a handfull of copies of Redhat server for $ 50 each ( which is what redhat sold it to schools at , with no support ) when I could have used CentOS ( And did use it on my 2 development systems ) because I wanted to support Linux .
Windows was a few hundred dollars each for machines that would support that amount of CPU 's and Ram , so we were still saving the taxpayers lots of money.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I worked for a college, and gladly bought a handfull of copies of Redhat server for $50 each (which is what redhat sold it to schools at, with no support) when I could have used CentOS (And did use it on my 2 development systems) because I wanted to support Linux.
Windows was a few hundred dollars each for machines that would support that amount of CPU's and Ram, so we were still saving the taxpayers lots of money...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30529950</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30536834</id>
	<title>Re:Get others in Gov to use it</title>
	<author>rtobyr</author>
	<datestamp>1259779260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>We do actually do that. There is a listserv for IT staff throughout the state in this branch of government. I constantly talk about what we're doing with Open Source on that mailing list, especially when another netadmin writes that he's thinking of purchasing a commercial product where there are open source alternatives.</htmltext>
<tokenext>We do actually do that .
There is a listserv for IT staff throughout the state in this branch of government .
I constantly talk about what we 're doing with Open Source on that mailing list , especially when another netadmin writes that he 's thinking of purchasing a commercial product where there are open source alternatives .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We do actually do that.
There is a listserv for IT staff throughout the state in this branch of government.
I constantly talk about what we're doing with Open Source on that mailing list, especially when another netadmin writes that he's thinking of purchasing a commercial product where there are open source alternatives.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530000</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531920</id>
	<title>Information about the use within government</title>
	<author>adamkennedy</author>
	<datestamp>1261494720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Many authors of open source software (particularly smaller cases) will only ever experience a limited range of situations, which will influence the design.</p><p>People who have only ever worked in large corporations will make things overly complex to configure, people who only work in startups may undervalue documentation and reporting (I'm making hugely vast generalisations here).</p><p>One valuable thing you can contribute is your experience using that software in government. You understand the nature of government and its priorities probably a lot better than the original developers.</p><p>Contribute bug reports, feature requests, and commentary (ideally into proper bug/feature tracking systems) that address specific areas of interest to government.</p><p>Open Source developers love it when they hear their work is being used in interesting real-world scenarios, and your experience with government can suggest directions they might otherwise not have considered, or have underprioritised in the past.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Many authors of open source software ( particularly smaller cases ) will only ever experience a limited range of situations , which will influence the design.People who have only ever worked in large corporations will make things overly complex to configure , people who only work in startups may undervalue documentation and reporting ( I 'm making hugely vast generalisations here ) .One valuable thing you can contribute is your experience using that software in government .
You understand the nature of government and its priorities probably a lot better than the original developers.Contribute bug reports , feature requests , and commentary ( ideally into proper bug/feature tracking systems ) that address specific areas of interest to government.Open Source developers love it when they hear their work is being used in interesting real-world scenarios , and your experience with government can suggest directions they might otherwise not have considered , or have underprioritised in the past .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many authors of open source software (particularly smaller cases) will only ever experience a limited range of situations, which will influence the design.People who have only ever worked in large corporations will make things overly complex to configure, people who only work in startups may undervalue documentation and reporting (I'm making hugely vast generalisations here).One valuable thing you can contribute is your experience using that software in government.
You understand the nature of government and its priorities probably a lot better than the original developers.Contribute bug reports, feature requests, and commentary (ideally into proper bug/feature tracking systems) that address specific areas of interest to government.Open Source developers love it when they hear their work is being used in interesting real-world scenarios, and your experience with government can suggest directions they might otherwise not have considered, or have underprioritised in the past.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30539752</id>
	<title>Hide Your Endorsement In A Help Page</title>
	<author>dprovine</author>
	<datestamp>1259754540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
I don't know exactly what you do, but if you have any files for download you can put them up in ODT and PDF format, and then have a link which says "These files are available in PDF format and ODT format.  Many computers have software which can read PDF files; if yours does not, you can download it from Adobe (throw in a link).  ODT files can be opened using many programs which are also available for free, including AbiWord, OpenOffice.org, and which can be downloaded from <i>here</i>.  All of these programs can be used in Microsoft Windows, Apple's OS X, Linux, and BSD.
</p><p>
Another thing you might do is have a "compatibility page", in which you have FAQ-type stuff of the form "Q: If I want to send you an electronic file, what format should I use?  A: We use OpenOffice.org, which can read files in many formats, including the standard ODT format as well as things such as Microsoft Word format."
</p><p>
Dunno if any of that helps you or not.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know exactly what you do , but if you have any files for download you can put them up in ODT and PDF format , and then have a link which says " These files are available in PDF format and ODT format .
Many computers have software which can read PDF files ; if yours does not , you can download it from Adobe ( throw in a link ) .
ODT files can be opened using many programs which are also available for free , including AbiWord , OpenOffice.org , and which can be downloaded from here .
All of these programs can be used in Microsoft Windows , Apple 's OS X , Linux , and BSD .
Another thing you might do is have a " compatibility page " , in which you have FAQ-type stuff of the form " Q : If I want to send you an electronic file , what format should I use ?
A : We use OpenOffice.org , which can read files in many formats , including the standard ODT format as well as things such as Microsoft Word format .
" Dunno if any of that helps you or not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
I don't know exactly what you do, but if you have any files for download you can put them up in ODT and PDF format, and then have a link which says "These files are available in PDF format and ODT format.
Many computers have software which can read PDF files; if yours does not, you can download it from Adobe (throw in a link).
ODT files can be opened using many programs which are also available for free, including AbiWord, OpenOffice.org, and which can be downloaded from here.
All of these programs can be used in Microsoft Windows, Apple's OS X, Linux, and BSD.
Another thing you might do is have a "compatibility page", in which you have FAQ-type stuff of the form "Q: If I want to send you an electronic file, what format should I use?
A: We use OpenOffice.org, which can read files in many formats, including the standard ODT format as well as things such as Microsoft Word format.
"

Dunno if any of that helps you or not.
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30533344</id>
	<title>Participate, suggest and comment</title>
	<author>hughbar</author>
	<datestamp>1259785860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Even if it's not money that's flowing, help the community around the product by reporting issues, making suggestions and giving others a helping hand. This makes the software better and the community around it more sustainable and welcoming. In fewer words, don't just be a 'consumer'.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Even if it 's not money that 's flowing , help the community around the product by reporting issues , making suggestions and giving others a helping hand .
This makes the software better and the community around it more sustainable and welcoming .
In fewer words , do n't just be a 'consumer' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even if it's not money that's flowing, help the community around the product by reporting issues, making suggestions and giving others a helping hand.
This makes the software better and the community around it more sustainable and welcoming.
In fewer words, don't just be a 'consumer'.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530228</id>
	<title>Re:"Contributing" is impossible</title>
	<author>MozeeToby</author>
	<datestamp>1261481760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not that I'm saying he should do this, especially if his boss has already told him not to, but it isn't taking his neighbors car and letting someone else have it.  If approved it would be a government agency using your tax dollars and putting them to use to support the purposes of that government agency.  This whole taxes equal theft thing has just gotta stop.  Yes, taxes can go too far, lord knows I pay enough of them.  If the agency he works for thinks that the best way to fulfil their objectives is with a donation to open source projects, that isn't theft, it's government.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not that I 'm saying he should do this , especially if his boss has already told him not to , but it is n't taking his neighbors car and letting someone else have it .
If approved it would be a government agency using your tax dollars and putting them to use to support the purposes of that government agency .
This whole taxes equal theft thing has just got ta stop .
Yes , taxes can go too far , lord knows I pay enough of them .
If the agency he works for thinks that the best way to fulfil their objectives is with a donation to open source projects , that is n't theft , it 's government .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not that I'm saying he should do this, especially if his boss has already told him not to, but it isn't taking his neighbors car and letting someone else have it.
If approved it would be a government agency using your tax dollars and putting them to use to support the purposes of that government agency.
This whole taxes equal theft thing has just gotta stop.
Yes, taxes can go too far, lord knows I pay enough of them.
If the agency he works for thinks that the best way to fulfil their objectives is with a donation to open source projects, that isn't theft, it's government.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30532390</id>
	<title>Re:do what I do</title>
	<author>Larryish</author>
	<datestamp>1261500780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Firefox sucks and it needs a ribbon UI. HA HA<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:PpPpPp</htmltext>
<tokenext>Firefox sucks and it needs a ribbon UI .
HA HA : PpPpPp</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Firefox sucks and it needs a ribbon UI.
HA HA :PpPpPp</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530318</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30532320</id>
	<title>Re:You're doing it wrong.</title>
	<author>ThrowAwaySociety</author>
	<datestamp>1261500000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's that <i>direct</i> stipulation that leads to short-sightedness, and ends up costing taxpayers billions in the long run.</p><p>"Oh, well we don't need to shore up these levies in New Orleans.  There's no immediate benefit when there hasn't been a major hurricane in years."</p><p>"Oh, bridges can last a little while longer than designed.  We'll just send someone by periodically to do a cursory check.  That's a lot cheaper than replacing all those 1930s projects."</p><p>"Who cares about preventative care.  If you want that, get insurance and go to your doctor.  Never mind that taxpayers will cover you when your problem gets worse and you go to the emergency room uninsured."</p><p>"Regulation is an inefficient burden on commerce.  It's hard to show a direct benefit when you back during a boom and ignore any lessons more than three years old.  Just let it all go, and the publicly-chartered companies will police themselves!"</p><p>I think we have very different opinions on "efficient".  I believe that long-term and indirect benefits can be significantly more efficient than short-term nearsightedness, and the government if anyone should be able to look at the long term.  In this case, for example, he should find a way to fund the projects he uses (such as buying support licenses), because in the long term it will keep the projects active and improving, and save significant cost versus a system redesign due to an EOL/abandoned software product.</p></div><p>I'm struggling to imagine how failing to contribute to a FOSS project is in any way equivalent to failing to maintain vital public safety infrastructure.</p><p>I'm forced to conclude you're making a straw man argument</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's that direct stipulation that leads to short-sightedness , and ends up costing taxpayers billions in the long run .
" Oh , well we do n't need to shore up these levies in New Orleans .
There 's no immediate benefit when there has n't been a major hurricane in years .
" " Oh , bridges can last a little while longer than designed .
We 'll just send someone by periodically to do a cursory check .
That 's a lot cheaper than replacing all those 1930s projects .
" " Who cares about preventative care .
If you want that , get insurance and go to your doctor .
Never mind that taxpayers will cover you when your problem gets worse and you go to the emergency room uninsured .
" " Regulation is an inefficient burden on commerce .
It 's hard to show a direct benefit when you back during a boom and ignore any lessons more than three years old .
Just let it all go , and the publicly-chartered companies will police themselves !
" I think we have very different opinions on " efficient " .
I believe that long-term and indirect benefits can be significantly more efficient than short-term nearsightedness , and the government if anyone should be able to look at the long term .
In this case , for example , he should find a way to fund the projects he uses ( such as buying support licenses ) , because in the long term it will keep the projects active and improving , and save significant cost versus a system redesign due to an EOL/abandoned software product.I 'm struggling to imagine how failing to contribute to a FOSS project is in any way equivalent to failing to maintain vital public safety infrastructure.I 'm forced to conclude you 're making a straw man argument</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's that direct stipulation that leads to short-sightedness, and ends up costing taxpayers billions in the long run.
"Oh, well we don't need to shore up these levies in New Orleans.
There's no immediate benefit when there hasn't been a major hurricane in years.
""Oh, bridges can last a little while longer than designed.
We'll just send someone by periodically to do a cursory check.
That's a lot cheaper than replacing all those 1930s projects.
""Who cares about preventative care.
If you want that, get insurance and go to your doctor.
Never mind that taxpayers will cover you when your problem gets worse and you go to the emergency room uninsured.
""Regulation is an inefficient burden on commerce.
It's hard to show a direct benefit when you back during a boom and ignore any lessons more than three years old.
Just let it all go, and the publicly-chartered companies will police themselves!
"I think we have very different opinions on "efficient".
I believe that long-term and indirect benefits can be significantly more efficient than short-term nearsightedness, and the government if anyone should be able to look at the long term.
In this case, for example, he should find a way to fund the projects he uses (such as buying support licenses), because in the long term it will keep the projects active and improving, and save significant cost versus a system redesign due to an EOL/abandoned software product.I'm struggling to imagine how failing to contribute to a FOSS project is in any way equivalent to failing to maintain vital public safety infrastructure.I'm forced to conclude you're making a straw man argument
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530558</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530054</id>
	<title>Curious</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261481040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>That means we can't donate money, because it's a 'gift of public funds.'</p></div> </blockquote><p>And yet no one seems to have a problem with the brib^H^H^H^H "gift of public funds" to purchase votes for crap legislation.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That means we ca n't donate money , because it 's a 'gift of public funds .
' And yet no one seems to have a problem with the brib ^ H ^ H ^ H ^ H " gift of public funds " to purchase votes for crap legislation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That means we can't donate money, because it's a 'gift of public funds.
' And yet no one seems to have a problem with the brib^H^H^H^H "gift of public funds" to purchase votes for crap legislation.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530744</id>
	<title>Re:"Contributing" is impossible</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261484400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Um, you do realize that no personal property whatsoever can exist in the system to you seem to prefer? I can't ever really own something, because the minute I use it to generate income you say that I'm getting something for nothing, scamming the "system", ruining your mojo, etc. So you feel free to take some of the income I generated. Well, then surely the bit you left me is really mine now, right? Oh, no. If I use *that* bit to generate more income, say by loaning it to someone, you still say I'm getting something for nothing, scamming the "system", etc. etc. So you take some of my income from *that* endeavor. What you seem unable to accept is that if I earned the first bit of property - really earned it by the sweat of my brow doing work that you happen to acknowledge as useful and ethical, then <i>I freaking own it</i>. If I really own it then I can loan it to someone for money and no one has any right to a penny of the proceeds but me. To tax the proceeds of the loan is to tax more of the original property - to tax it again and again and again.</p><p>Also, if you really disagree with some methods of earning money, then change the law so they are illegal or, if those already exist, catch the people doing them. Don't undermine the very concept of property as a shortcut to recovering "your fair share". You will - and I don't expect you to understand this - only end up undermining your ability to own "your fair share" in any meaningful sense of the word "own". You won't own it, you will merely be allowed it - hopefully! - by others like yourself.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Um , you do realize that no personal property whatsoever can exist in the system to you seem to prefer ?
I ca n't ever really own something , because the minute I use it to generate income you say that I 'm getting something for nothing , scamming the " system " , ruining your mojo , etc .
So you feel free to take some of the income I generated .
Well , then surely the bit you left me is really mine now , right ?
Oh , no .
If I use * that * bit to generate more income , say by loaning it to someone , you still say I 'm getting something for nothing , scamming the " system " , etc .
etc. So you take some of my income from * that * endeavor .
What you seem unable to accept is that if I earned the first bit of property - really earned it by the sweat of my brow doing work that you happen to acknowledge as useful and ethical , then I freaking own it .
If I really own it then I can loan it to someone for money and no one has any right to a penny of the proceeds but me .
To tax the proceeds of the loan is to tax more of the original property - to tax it again and again and again.Also , if you really disagree with some methods of earning money , then change the law so they are illegal or , if those already exist , catch the people doing them .
Do n't undermine the very concept of property as a shortcut to recovering " your fair share " .
You will - and I do n't expect you to understand this - only end up undermining your ability to own " your fair share " in any meaningful sense of the word " own " .
You wo n't own it , you will merely be allowed it - hopefully !
- by others like yourself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Um, you do realize that no personal property whatsoever can exist in the system to you seem to prefer?
I can't ever really own something, because the minute I use it to generate income you say that I'm getting something for nothing, scamming the "system", ruining your mojo, etc.
So you feel free to take some of the income I generated.
Well, then surely the bit you left me is really mine now, right?
Oh, no.
If I use *that* bit to generate more income, say by loaning it to someone, you still say I'm getting something for nothing, scamming the "system", etc.
etc. So you take some of my income from *that* endeavor.
What you seem unable to accept is that if I earned the first bit of property - really earned it by the sweat of my brow doing work that you happen to acknowledge as useful and ethical, then I freaking own it.
If I really own it then I can loan it to someone for money and no one has any right to a penny of the proceeds but me.
To tax the proceeds of the loan is to tax more of the original property - to tax it again and again and again.Also, if you really disagree with some methods of earning money, then change the law so they are illegal or, if those already exist, catch the people doing them.
Don't undermine the very concept of property as a shortcut to recovering "your fair share".
You will - and I don't expect you to understand this - only end up undermining your ability to own "your fair share" in any meaningful sense of the word "own".
You won't own it, you will merely be allowed it - hopefully!
- by others like yourself.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530308</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531224</id>
	<title>Re:"Contributing" is impossible</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1261487580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Government operates by forcibly taking money from one person and giving it to another person or organization. So you can't "contribute" to open source any more than I can contribute my neighbor's car to a needy family.</p></div><p>The difference between you and government is that government <em>can</em> do it, unlike you. That's why we have it in the first place.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Government operates by forcibly taking money from one person and giving it to another person or organization .
So you ca n't " contribute " to open source any more than I can contribute my neighbor 's car to a needy family.The difference between you and government is that government can do it , unlike you .
That 's why we have it in the first place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Government operates by forcibly taking money from one person and giving it to another person or organization.
So you can't "contribute" to open source any more than I can contribute my neighbor's car to a needy family.The difference between you and government is that government can do it, unlike you.
That's why we have it in the first place.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531042</id>
	<title>ensure that everything is on an open format</title>
	<author>doug</author>
	<datestamp>1261486260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> I've  been annoyed at the government's use of proprietary formats since some moron at the IRS made wrapped some PDFs in a self extracting ZIP file.  The linux tools at the time (the was in the 90s) didn't work well enough, and I had to work around it all.  Now days most data files in closed formats have open source viewers, but not all.  My son's school uses a bunch of MS only crap and I can't stand it.  I have a MS netbook just so he can view everything.  If you have any say in how the data is presented, format everything in a linux friendly way. </p><p> Likewise, keep IE specific junk off of your webserver. </p><p> I also liked someone else's idea of doing a writeup of how much you save annually by not buying close source tools.  This can help others in Government/Corporate America make the case of switching to Linux.  And any publicity is good publicity. </p><p> - doug </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been annoyed at the government 's use of proprietary formats since some moron at the IRS made wrapped some PDFs in a self extracting ZIP file .
The linux tools at the time ( the was in the 90s ) did n't work well enough , and I had to work around it all .
Now days most data files in closed formats have open source viewers , but not all .
My son 's school uses a bunch of MS only crap and I ca n't stand it .
I have a MS netbook just so he can view everything .
If you have any say in how the data is presented , format everything in a linux friendly way .
Likewise , keep IE specific junk off of your webserver .
I also liked someone else 's idea of doing a writeup of how much you save annually by not buying close source tools .
This can help others in Government/Corporate America make the case of switching to Linux .
And any publicity is good publicity .
- doug</tokentext>
<sentencetext> I've  been annoyed at the government's use of proprietary formats since some moron at the IRS made wrapped some PDFs in a self extracting ZIP file.
The linux tools at the time (the was in the 90s) didn't work well enough, and I had to work around it all.
Now days most data files in closed formats have open source viewers, but not all.
My son's school uses a bunch of MS only crap and I can't stand it.
I have a MS netbook just so he can view everything.
If you have any say in how the data is presented, format everything in a linux friendly way.
Likewise, keep IE specific junk off of your webserver.
I also liked someone else's idea of doing a writeup of how much you save annually by not buying close source tools.
This can help others in Government/Corporate America make the case of switching to Linux.
And any publicity is good publicity.
- doug </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530688</id>
	<title>Re:"Contributing" is impossible</title>
	<author>nacturation</author>
	<datestamp>1261484040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree with the concept you are advocating... that any use of tax dollars not designed to reduce the burden of taxes should be eliminated.  However, others have suggested ways to contribute which do further that goal: namely, writing documentation for other departments/branches of government on how they can use OSS to reduce their reliance on tax dollars.  In that case, spending tax dollars (aka: paid time) to write the documentation results in a net savings.</p><p>Additionally, if there's some OSS which can't be used because it's lacking functionality necessary for the government (some kind of standards support, auditing features, whatever), then spending tax dollars (aka: paid time) to write this would also result in a net benefit, and the more departments/branches of government that would benefit, the greater the multiplier effect.  If someone were able to spend a week coding up a patch to add necessary features for the IRS (theoretical example here) and it would save $50 in licensing costs for every IRS agent, that's money well spent.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree with the concept you are advocating... that any use of tax dollars not designed to reduce the burden of taxes should be eliminated .
However , others have suggested ways to contribute which do further that goal : namely , writing documentation for other departments/branches of government on how they can use OSS to reduce their reliance on tax dollars .
In that case , spending tax dollars ( aka : paid time ) to write the documentation results in a net savings.Additionally , if there 's some OSS which ca n't be used because it 's lacking functionality necessary for the government ( some kind of standards support , auditing features , whatever ) , then spending tax dollars ( aka : paid time ) to write this would also result in a net benefit , and the more departments/branches of government that would benefit , the greater the multiplier effect .
If someone were able to spend a week coding up a patch to add necessary features for the IRS ( theoretical example here ) and it would save $ 50 in licensing costs for every IRS agent , that 's money well spent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree with the concept you are advocating... that any use of tax dollars not designed to reduce the burden of taxes should be eliminated.
However, others have suggested ways to contribute which do further that goal: namely, writing documentation for other departments/branches of government on how they can use OSS to reduce their reliance on tax dollars.
In that case, spending tax dollars (aka: paid time) to write the documentation results in a net savings.Additionally, if there's some OSS which can't be used because it's lacking functionality necessary for the government (some kind of standards support, auditing features, whatever), then spending tax dollars (aka: paid time) to write this would also result in a net benefit, and the more departments/branches of government that would benefit, the greater the multiplier effect.
If someone were able to spend a week coding up a patch to add necessary features for the IRS (theoretical example here) and it would save $50 in licensing costs for every IRS agent, that's money well spent.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30556886</id>
	<title>Documentation</title>
	<author>bahamat</author>
	<datestamp>1261852920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Many open source programs have horrendous documentation.  If you can read and write in English (or any other language) and are even remotely capable of reading source code then document it.  Parts that you don't understand you can ask the developer to explain it to you.  Pick a project you like, e-mail the maintainer and ask if you can contribute documentation.<br><br>Most engineers hate doing documentation.  It takes up a ton of time that we'd rather spend writing code.  If they're smart, they'll love you for it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Many open source programs have horrendous documentation .
If you can read and write in English ( or any other language ) and are even remotely capable of reading source code then document it .
Parts that you do n't understand you can ask the developer to explain it to you .
Pick a project you like , e-mail the maintainer and ask if you can contribute documentation.Most engineers hate doing documentation .
It takes up a ton of time that we 'd rather spend writing code .
If they 're smart , they 'll love you for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many open source programs have horrendous documentation.
If you can read and write in English (or any other language) and are even remotely capable of reading source code then document it.
Parts that you don't understand you can ask the developer to explain it to you.
Pick a project you like, e-mail the maintainer and ask if you can contribute documentation.Most engineers hate doing documentation.
It takes up a ton of time that we'd rather spend writing code.
If they're smart, they'll love you for it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531848</id>
	<title>Re:Pay for your free licenses</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261493700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh STFU.  You only have to pay for RHEL if you want support.  ZOMG HOW TERRIBLE!!1!cos(0)!!1!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh STFU .
You only have to pay for RHEL if you want support .
ZOMG HOW TERRIBLE ! ! 1 ! cos ( 0 ) !
! 1 !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh STFU.
You only have to pay for RHEL if you want support.
ZOMG HOW TERRIBLE!!1!cos(0)!
!1!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531328</id>
	<title>suggestion</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261488540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd say documentation would be the most helpful(or translation if you're fluent in another language) way to contribute. I've found that a lot of open source projects are harder to use simply because I'm not used to them(i.e. Linux may be 10x better than Windows, but people are used to Windows, so a lot of those benefits aren't seen or noticed). So if you're using OpenVPN now instead of \_\_\_\_ and you understand it pretty well, consider writing really basic guides with every step detailed. This is something you can share with your colleagues and with the community as a whole.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I'm pretty bad at a lot of Linux based stuff right now, but whenever I find a well-written guide it saves me hours or days of frustration. Just be very detailed(leaving off a step means the person following the guide will leave it off too, and then they'll be left scratching their heads) and don't assume they know anything. That's the biggest problem I find with a lot of open source things. They're pretty simple to use, they're free, and they might have a mailing list or forum where you can ask for help, but documentation is more like reading about what it can do, instead of reading how to do something. And when there are guides for doing something they often leave off key things or gloss over them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd say documentation would be the most helpful ( or translation if you 're fluent in another language ) way to contribute .
I 've found that a lot of open source projects are harder to use simply because I 'm not used to them ( i.e .
Linux may be 10x better than Windows , but people are used to Windows , so a lot of those benefits are n't seen or noticed ) .
So if you 're using OpenVPN now instead of \ _ \ _ \ _ \ _ and you understand it pretty well , consider writing really basic guides with every step detailed .
This is something you can share with your colleagues and with the community as a whole .
      I 'm pretty bad at a lot of Linux based stuff right now , but whenever I find a well-written guide it saves me hours or days of frustration .
Just be very detailed ( leaving off a step means the person following the guide will leave it off too , and then they 'll be left scratching their heads ) and do n't assume they know anything .
That 's the biggest problem I find with a lot of open source things .
They 're pretty simple to use , they 're free , and they might have a mailing list or forum where you can ask for help , but documentation is more like reading about what it can do , instead of reading how to do something .
And when there are guides for doing something they often leave off key things or gloss over them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd say documentation would be the most helpful(or translation if you're fluent in another language) way to contribute.
I've found that a lot of open source projects are harder to use simply because I'm not used to them(i.e.
Linux may be 10x better than Windows, but people are used to Windows, so a lot of those benefits aren't seen or noticed).
So if you're using OpenVPN now instead of \_\_\_\_ and you understand it pretty well, consider writing really basic guides with every step detailed.
This is something you can share with your colleagues and with the community as a whole.
      I'm pretty bad at a lot of Linux based stuff right now, but whenever I find a well-written guide it saves me hours or days of frustration.
Just be very detailed(leaving off a step means the person following the guide will leave it off too, and then they'll be left scratching their heads) and don't assume they know anything.
That's the biggest problem I find with a lot of open source things.
They're pretty simple to use, they're free, and they might have a mailing list or forum where you can ask for help, but documentation is more like reading about what it can do, instead of reading how to do something.
And when there are guides for doing something they often leave off key things or gloss over them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530188</id>
	<title>Documentation?</title>
	<author>UTF-8</author>
	<datestamp>1261481580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First, ask the open source project where they need help. If all else fails, you could learn how to write documentation for the project. Helpful documentation is notoriously bad for projects that are too focused on the internals without an outside view.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First , ask the open source project where they need help .
If all else fails , you could learn how to write documentation for the project .
Helpful documentation is notoriously bad for projects that are too focused on the internals without an outside view .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First, ask the open source project where they need help.
If all else fails, you could learn how to write documentation for the project.
Helpful documentation is notoriously bad for projects that are too focused on the internals without an outside view.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530002</id>
	<title>eliminate the need for a monetary system...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261480800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>it's as clear as daylight.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>it 's as clear as daylight .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it's as clear as daylight.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531244</id>
	<title>Metagovernment</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261487700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you are in government, you really should explore the <a href="http://metagovernment.org/" title="metagovernment.org" rel="nofollow">Metagovernment project</a> [metagovernment.org] and its affiliated suite of <a href="http://metagovernment.org/wiki/Active\_projects" title="metagovernment.org" rel="nofollow">open source projects</a> [metagovernment.org].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you are in government , you really should explore the Metagovernment project [ metagovernment.org ] and its affiliated suite of open source projects [ metagovernment.org ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you are in government, you really should explore the Metagovernment project [metagovernment.org] and its affiliated suite of open source projects [metagovernment.org].</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530590</id>
	<title>Attend a conference</title>
	<author>tyroneking</author>
	<datestamp>1261483560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Attend a conference for your organisation - maybe a local govt conference or such like and evangelise for FOSS; people will believe your experiences much more than that of vendors and often local govt managers like to see proof from other similar organisations of FOSS success.</p><p>Also, donate to the FOSS projects you use - get your manager to do so.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Attend a conference for your organisation - maybe a local govt conference or such like and evangelise for FOSS ; people will believe your experiences much more than that of vendors and often local govt managers like to see proof from other similar organisations of FOSS success.Also , donate to the FOSS projects you use - get your manager to do so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Attend a conference for your organisation - maybe a local govt conference or such like and evangelise for FOSS; people will believe your experiences much more than that of vendors and often local govt managers like to see proof from other similar organisations of FOSS success.Also, donate to the FOSS projects you use - get your manager to do so.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530350</id>
	<title>Re:"Contributing" is impossible</title>
	<author>jabbathewocket</author>
	<datestamp>1261482300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Angry much? Fact of the matter is that you need a civics lesson on how and more importantly why government operates<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...

Don't blame the idea, blame the implementation.. if your unhappy with government, put your butt to work, run for office, fix from within, and most importantly VOTE dont just bitch on the internet about how government is evil and steals your money to give it away to someone else.

The problem with government, is the people both in power, and the folks who put them there AND KEEP THEM THERE.. NOT the ideas/goals that put them in power.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Angry much ?
Fact of the matter is that you need a civics lesson on how and more importantly why government operates .. . Do n't blame the idea , blame the implementation.. if your unhappy with government , put your butt to work , run for office , fix from within , and most importantly VOTE dont just bitch on the internet about how government is evil and steals your money to give it away to someone else .
The problem with government , is the people both in power , and the folks who put them there AND KEEP THEM THERE.. NOT the ideas/goals that put them in power .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Angry much?
Fact of the matter is that you need a civics lesson on how and more importantly why government operates ...

Don't blame the idea, blame the implementation.. if your unhappy with government, put your butt to work, run for office, fix from within, and most importantly VOTE dont just bitch on the internet about how government is evil and steals your money to give it away to someone else.
The problem with government, is the people both in power, and the folks who put them there AND KEEP THEM THERE.. NOT the ideas/goals that put them in power.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530432</id>
	<title>Re:Pay for your free licenses</title>
	<author>Forge</author>
	<datestamp>1261482660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>You also don't need to buy support from an existing provider.  You can ask the project leaders for something you find valuable to submit a bid for annual support within a defined price range.  With the price range limited, they automatically win on competence.
<br> <br>
This means you could for-instance switch from Windows to KDE on 100 desktops and offer the KDE project the bargain basement fee of $10 per PC, per year to deliver the desktop the way you like and respond to concerns.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You also do n't need to buy support from an existing provider .
You can ask the project leaders for something you find valuable to submit a bid for annual support within a defined price range .
With the price range limited , they automatically win on competence .
This means you could for-instance switch from Windows to KDE on 100 desktops and offer the KDE project the bargain basement fee of $ 10 per PC , per year to deliver the desktop the way you like and respond to concerns .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You also don't need to buy support from an existing provider.
You can ask the project leaders for something you find valuable to submit a bid for annual support within a defined price range.
With the price range limited, they automatically win on competence.
This means you could for-instance switch from Windows to KDE on 100 desktops and offer the KDE project the bargain basement fee of $10 per PC, per year to deliver the desktop the way you like and respond to concerns.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30529950</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30533498</id>
	<title>Re:"Contributing" is impossible</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259745780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That is a myopic view of what government does.  The government provides its citizen, an environment in which others can lend you money without fear, you can operate a business easily, enable transportation, communication, etc., most importantly enforces rules to make sure everyone plays to rules. Thus government enables you to earn every single penny that "you" make. All it is doing is to take a small share of this as return from you so that it can continue doing what it is doing for you. The taxes are the profit share that you give to your business partner who contributed so much to your business. So government has every right and responsibility to collect those taxes, and do whatever is needed to enable a better environment for future businesses and citizens. It is NOT stealing YOUR money.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That is a myopic view of what government does .
The government provides its citizen , an environment in which others can lend you money without fear , you can operate a business easily , enable transportation , communication , etc. , most importantly enforces rules to make sure everyone plays to rules .
Thus government enables you to earn every single penny that " you " make .
All it is doing is to take a small share of this as return from you so that it can continue doing what it is doing for you .
The taxes are the profit share that you give to your business partner who contributed so much to your business .
So government has every right and responsibility to collect those taxes , and do whatever is needed to enable a better environment for future businesses and citizens .
It is NOT stealing YOUR money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is a myopic view of what government does.
The government provides its citizen, an environment in which others can lend you money without fear, you can operate a business easily, enable transportation, communication, etc., most importantly enforces rules to make sure everyone plays to rules.
Thus government enables you to earn every single penny that "you" make.
All it is doing is to take a small share of this as return from you so that it can continue doing what it is doing for you.
The taxes are the profit share that you give to your business partner who contributed so much to your business.
So government has every right and responsibility to collect those taxes, and do whatever is needed to enable a better environment for future businesses and citizens.
It is NOT stealing YOUR money.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531428</id>
	<title>Re:"Contributing" is impossible</title>
	<author>m6ack</author>
	<datestamp>1261489380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>LOL...  Just who put you in charge of saying what is of utility or not in a society?

</p><p>In the Capitalist system utility is determined by the consumer -- merit and utility are determined in a distributed fashion.  If the decision is centralized, then society is made inefficient...  and those people that are of genuine merit will find a place in a another society where their work (or their hard-earned capital) is valued -- and where they can be justly compensated...

</p><p>You mention advertising as something "creating artificial needs" -- but...  I think you have it upside down...  Advertising is important to any society in the process of efficient dissemination and assimilation of new ideas.  Advertisers serve to communicate the utility of an idea to the society, serve to differentiate an idea from competing ideas, and make the society more efficient both at determining the merit of an idea, and at assimilating the new idea.  The person that can communicate, position an idea well against it's competitors and convince is highly valued and sought after.  The reward for a successful new idea both to society and to the author of the idea can be substantial -- so too, the advertiser's worth.

</p><p>You mention creating weapons as harmful -- but the production of weapons is a vital benefit to society.  A society must have the means of protecting its interests against challengers from outside and of checking those attempting to subvert it from within.  If there are no arms in the possession of the society (or will to use them in conflict), the same is at the mercy of its neighbor and from the strongest deviant from within.

</p><p>So, I am definitely glad that the author of the previous post is not making my decisions for me about what is valuable to me.  I am glad I live in a society where, for the most part, we are free to determine what is of utility to and for ourselves.  I am equally glad that this society is equitable enough to pay me in accordance with my effort and value -- and that I can, for the most part, keep (and pass on to whom I chose) what I have earned.  I'm also glad that I am free to participate in protecting both my family and my society by responsibly bearing arms.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>LOL... Just who put you in charge of saying what is of utility or not in a society ?
In the Capitalist system utility is determined by the consumer -- merit and utility are determined in a distributed fashion .
If the decision is centralized , then society is made inefficient... and those people that are of genuine merit will find a place in a another society where their work ( or their hard-earned capital ) is valued -- and where they can be justly compensated.. . You mention advertising as something " creating artificial needs " -- but... I think you have it upside down... Advertising is important to any society in the process of efficient dissemination and assimilation of new ideas .
Advertisers serve to communicate the utility of an idea to the society , serve to differentiate an idea from competing ideas , and make the society more efficient both at determining the merit of an idea , and at assimilating the new idea .
The person that can communicate , position an idea well against it 's competitors and convince is highly valued and sought after .
The reward for a successful new idea both to society and to the author of the idea can be substantial -- so too , the advertiser 's worth .
You mention creating weapons as harmful -- but the production of weapons is a vital benefit to society .
A society must have the means of protecting its interests against challengers from outside and of checking those attempting to subvert it from within .
If there are no arms in the possession of the society ( or will to use them in conflict ) , the same is at the mercy of its neighbor and from the strongest deviant from within .
So , I am definitely glad that the author of the previous post is not making my decisions for me about what is valuable to me .
I am glad I live in a society where , for the most part , we are free to determine what is of utility to and for ourselves .
I am equally glad that this society is equitable enough to pay me in accordance with my effort and value -- and that I can , for the most part , keep ( and pass on to whom I chose ) what I have earned .
I 'm also glad that I am free to participate in protecting both my family and my society by responsibly bearing arms .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>LOL...  Just who put you in charge of saying what is of utility or not in a society?
In the Capitalist system utility is determined by the consumer -- merit and utility are determined in a distributed fashion.
If the decision is centralized, then society is made inefficient...  and those people that are of genuine merit will find a place in a another society where their work (or their hard-earned capital) is valued -- and where they can be justly compensated...

You mention advertising as something "creating artificial needs" -- but...  I think you have it upside down...  Advertising is important to any society in the process of efficient dissemination and assimilation of new ideas.
Advertisers serve to communicate the utility of an idea to the society, serve to differentiate an idea from competing ideas, and make the society more efficient both at determining the merit of an idea, and at assimilating the new idea.
The person that can communicate, position an idea well against it's competitors and convince is highly valued and sought after.
The reward for a successful new idea both to society and to the author of the idea can be substantial -- so too, the advertiser's worth.
You mention creating weapons as harmful -- but the production of weapons is a vital benefit to society.
A society must have the means of protecting its interests against challengers from outside and of checking those attempting to subvert it from within.
If there are no arms in the possession of the society (or will to use them in conflict), the same is at the mercy of its neighbor and from the strongest deviant from within.
So, I am definitely glad that the author of the previous post is not making my decisions for me about what is valuable to me.
I am glad I live in a society where, for the most part, we are free to determine what is of utility to and for ourselves.
I am equally glad that this society is equitable enough to pay me in accordance with my effort and value -- and that I can, for the most part, keep (and pass on to whom I chose) what I have earned.
I'm also glad that I am free to participate in protecting both my family and my society by responsibly bearing arms.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530308</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530198</id>
	<title>Nice hipocracy there...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261481640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Government operates by forcibly taking money from one person and giving it to another person or organization.</p></div><p>Oh yeah, that's right... whine, whine, whine... I don't see you boycotting the internet (you know, that thing that was created with tax dollars.)   Take your Libertardian hypocrisy and shove it, moron.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Government operates by forcibly taking money from one person and giving it to another person or organization.Oh yeah , that 's right... whine , whine , whine... I do n't see you boycotting the internet ( you know , that thing that was created with tax dollars .
) Take your Libertardian hypocrisy and shove it , moron .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Government operates by forcibly taking money from one person and giving it to another person or organization.Oh yeah, that's right... whine, whine, whine... I don't see you boycotting the internet (you know, that thing that was created with tax dollars.
)   Take your Libertardian hypocrisy and shove it, moron.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530388</id>
	<title>one idea...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261482540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You could always send naked pictures of your wife to the developers, I'm sure they would appreciate that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You could always send naked pictures of your wife to the developers , I 'm sure they would appreciate that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You could always send naked pictures of your wife to the developers, I'm sure they would appreciate that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531414</id>
	<title>Re:"Contributing" is impossible</title>
	<author>blahplusplus</author>
	<datestamp>1261489200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Government operates by forcibly taking money from one person and giving it to another person or organization."</p><p>You are taxed by consent, if you don't like it, then do what the earlier Americans did and revolt (no taxation without representation).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Government operates by forcibly taking money from one person and giving it to another person or organization .
" You are taxed by consent , if you do n't like it , then do what the earlier Americans did and revolt ( no taxation without representation ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Government operates by forcibly taking money from one person and giving it to another person or organization.
"You are taxed by consent, if you don't like it, then do what the earlier Americans did and revolt (no taxation without representation).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30532026</id>
	<title>OSS Works vs ....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261495920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>ha ha ha - some of these comments about being careful with money are *so uninformed*  I live in a big state in the US. It was recently in the paper that our state has spent over $1 BILLION dollars on sfwr systems that DON'T WORK.. Thats right, not a billion total, I am saying, just the ones in the spotlight for not working!!  Guess where they are located? In the finance sector.. Writing checks, accounting, getting money, etc. Systems that are in either complete or partial FAIL - +$1 BILLION. and the OSS people scrape together a trac instance..</p><p>the world is so out of balance.. all these smart commenters have no clue..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>ha ha ha - some of these comments about being careful with money are * so uninformed * I live in a big state in the US .
It was recently in the paper that our state has spent over $ 1 BILLION dollars on sfwr systems that DO N'T WORK.. Thats right , not a billion total , I am saying , just the ones in the spotlight for not working ! !
Guess where they are located ?
In the finance sector.. Writing checks , accounting , getting money , etc .
Systems that are in either complete or partial FAIL - + $ 1 BILLION .
and the OSS people scrape together a trac instance..the world is so out of balance.. all these smart commenters have no clue. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ha ha ha - some of these comments about being careful with money are *so uninformed*  I live in a big state in the US.
It was recently in the paper that our state has spent over $1 BILLION dollars on sfwr systems that DON'T WORK.. Thats right, not a billion total, I am saying, just the ones in the spotlight for not working!!
Guess where they are located?
In the finance sector.. Writing checks, accounting, getting money, etc.
Systems that are in either complete or partial FAIL - +$1 BILLION.
and the OSS people scrape together a trac instance..the world is so out of balance.. all these smart commenters have no clue..</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30529984</id>
	<title>You're doing it wrong.</title>
	<author>girlintraining</author>
	<datestamp>1261480680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I had the idea to put up a Web page stating that we 'use the following free software to save tax dollars,' as a way to help spread the word about open source software, but management calls this an 'endorsement.' A mirror server is a no-go as well. I'm certainly not a talented enough programmer to help with development.</p></div><p>First, if your manager says don't put up a web page, then don't. End of discussion. Yes he might be wrong. In fact, it's likely he's wrong. But you have a job to do -- don't risk it by challenging your boss. It's enough you're saving taxpayer dollars doing that, even if it isn't acknowledged (Thank You).</p><p>Second... I don't want my tax dollars being used for a mirror server. Plenty of other people do that already, and even if they didn't, we have bittorrent.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I had the idea to put up a Web page stating that we 'use the following free software to save tax dollars, ' as a way to help spread the word about open source software , but management calls this an 'endorsement .
' A mirror server is a no-go as well .
I 'm certainly not a talented enough programmer to help with development.First , if your manager says do n't put up a web page , then do n't .
End of discussion .
Yes he might be wrong .
In fact , it 's likely he 's wrong .
But you have a job to do -- do n't risk it by challenging your boss .
It 's enough you 're saving taxpayer dollars doing that , even if it is n't acknowledged ( Thank You ) .Second... I do n't want my tax dollars being used for a mirror server .
Plenty of other people do that already , and even if they did n't , we have bittorrent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had the idea to put up a Web page stating that we 'use the following free software to save tax dollars,' as a way to help spread the word about open source software, but management calls this an 'endorsement.
' A mirror server is a no-go as well.
I'm certainly not a talented enough programmer to help with development.First, if your manager says don't put up a web page, then don't.
End of discussion.
Yes he might be wrong.
In fact, it's likely he's wrong.
But you have a job to do -- don't risk it by challenging your boss.
It's enough you're saving taxpayer dollars doing that, even if it isn't acknowledged (Thank You).Second... I don't want my tax dollars being used for a mirror server.
Plenty of other people do that already, and even if they didn't, we have bittorrent.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531584</id>
	<title>See What they're Doing Higher on the Food Chain</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261491000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From too many years in the bureaurocracy (incl the WH), my experience is that it helps to point out that higher up on the food chain, they're doing exactly that.  Like:</p><p>See the WH implementation of  Open Source Drupal at http://drupal.org/node/375843</p><p>See DoD's activities re Open Source at http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/02/department-of-defense-launches-open-source-site-forgemil.ars</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From too many years in the bureaurocracy ( incl the WH ) , my experience is that it helps to point out that higher up on the food chain , they 're doing exactly that .
Like : See the WH implementation of Open Source Drupal at http : //drupal.org/node/375843See DoD 's activities re Open Source at http : //arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/02/department-of-defense-launches-open-source-site-forgemil.ars</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From too many years in the bureaurocracy (incl the WH), my experience is that it helps to point out that higher up on the food chain, they're doing exactly that.
Like:See the WH implementation of  Open Source Drupal at http://drupal.org/node/375843See DoD's activities re Open Source at http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/02/department-of-defense-launches-open-source-site-forgemil.ars</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530442</id>
	<title>Re:Endorsement or Truth?</title>
	<author>jmkaza</author>
	<datestamp>1261482720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's truth in the truth argument. As a gov't agency, you can't provide an endorsement of a commercial product, but you're required to provide transparency in what you do. The public has a right to know how their tax dollars are (or aren't) being spent, so an information page on the site should fly. I'd follow federal guidelines though, and make sure you don't use any logo images, keep it text based.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's truth in the truth argument .
As a gov't agency , you ca n't provide an endorsement of a commercial product , but you 're required to provide transparency in what you do .
The public has a right to know how their tax dollars are ( or are n't ) being spent , so an information page on the site should fly .
I 'd follow federal guidelines though , and make sure you do n't use any logo images , keep it text based .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's truth in the truth argument.
As a gov't agency, you can't provide an endorsement of a commercial product, but you're required to provide transparency in what you do.
The public has a right to know how their tax dollars are (or aren't) being spent, so an information page on the site should fly.
I'd follow federal guidelines though, and make sure you don't use any logo images, keep it text based.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530100</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531118</id>
	<title>Re:You're doing it wrong.</title>
	<author>Blakey Rat</author>
	<datestamp>1261486860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Not quite. If you believe that your manager is wrong, go to his boss.</i></p><p>Wow, going over your boss's head for something as trivial as this? Bad, bad career move.</p><p>Here's my career advice: don't take career advice from people on Slashdot. Even me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not quite .
If you believe that your manager is wrong , go to his boss.Wow , going over your boss 's head for something as trivial as this ?
Bad , bad career move.Here 's my career advice : do n't take career advice from people on Slashdot .
Even me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not quite.
If you believe that your manager is wrong, go to his boss.Wow, going over your boss's head for something as trivial as this?
Bad, bad career move.Here's my career advice: don't take career advice from people on Slashdot.
Even me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530276</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530206</id>
	<title>Just a few ideas</title>
	<author>Statecraftsman</author>
	<datestamp>1261481700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>1. Don't call it open source. Realize that the freedom aspect is as important for you as for the transparency of your "the people"-serving agency.<br>
2. Always consider free software first when implementing a new feature or system. Use is contribution.<br>
3. Learn to program and encourage others in your organization to do the same. It's not all about talent and can improve performance in nearly any job.<br>
4. If you have written any scripts to help you use free software, release those under the (A)GPL.<br>
5. Write, clarify, test and improve documentation. It's another important task that doesn't get enough attention in free software.<br>
6. Submit bug reports and encourage others in your organization to do the same.</htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
Do n't call it open source .
Realize that the freedom aspect is as important for you as for the transparency of your " the people " -serving agency .
2. Always consider free software first when implementing a new feature or system .
Use is contribution .
3. Learn to program and encourage others in your organization to do the same .
It 's not all about talent and can improve performance in nearly any job .
4. If you have written any scripts to help you use free software , release those under the ( A ) GPL .
5. Write , clarify , test and improve documentation .
It 's another important task that does n't get enough attention in free software .
6. Submit bug reports and encourage others in your organization to do the same .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.
Don't call it open source.
Realize that the freedom aspect is as important for you as for the transparency of your "the people"-serving agency.
2. Always consider free software first when implementing a new feature or system.
Use is contribution.
3. Learn to program and encourage others in your organization to do the same.
It's not all about talent and can improve performance in nearly any job.
4. If you have written any scripts to help you use free software, release those under the (A)GPL.
5. Write, clarify, test and improve documentation.
It's another important task that doesn't get enough attention in free software.
6. Submit bug reports and encourage others in your organization to do the same.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30534732</id>
	<title>Re:"Contributing" is impossible</title>
	<author>dkleinsc</author>
	<datestamp>1259766600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You can make some measure of efficiency but if you really want that, you can start by getting rid of everyone that lives off benefits first.</p></div><p>Are you proposing that we slaughter everyone over 70 years old? Or that losing one's job when you don't have sufficient savings should be a death sentence? I mean, I've come across social Darwinists in my day, but even they don't propose actively killing off those who are falling to the bottom of the heap.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You can make some measure of efficiency but if you really want that , you can start by getting rid of everyone that lives off benefits first.Are you proposing that we slaughter everyone over 70 years old ?
Or that losing one 's job when you do n't have sufficient savings should be a death sentence ?
I mean , I 've come across social Darwinists in my day , but even they do n't propose actively killing off those who are falling to the bottom of the heap .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can make some measure of efficiency but if you really want that, you can start by getting rid of everyone that lives off benefits first.Are you proposing that we slaughter everyone over 70 years old?
Or that losing one's job when you don't have sufficient savings should be a death sentence?
I mean, I've come across social Darwinists in my day, but even they don't propose actively killing off those who are falling to the bottom of the heap.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530810</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530452</id>
	<title>Speak at a conference</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261482720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Go to a government agency conference and do a presentation. Talk about how open source has saved you money, eliminated licensing headaches, etc etc. Show some charts.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Go to a government agency conference and do a presentation .
Talk about how open source has saved you money , eliminated licensing headaches , etc etc .
Show some charts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Go to a government agency conference and do a presentation.
Talk about how open source has saved you money, eliminated licensing headaches, etc etc.
Show some charts.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530092</id>
	<title>Participate in the projects that you use</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261481220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You don't have to be a programmer to participate in projects. They need bug reports, they need feature ideas, they need people to help organize the roadmap and say what will make the next version the best version ever.</p><p>A lot of open source projects could really use the input of real life users. The developers may not use the actual software as much as you do, so your opinions about what features are truly important and what are nice to have, can often be more important than the developer's opinions.</p><p>So participate in the communities that produce the software you use. You'll help them make better software, and you'll get better software in return. If you need justification/rationale for your boss, you can point out that it's no different from corporate customers of Microsoft who participate in beta programs for software they use, or provide other feedback on advance copies. Open source is a perpetual advance copy of the next release, so you always have a chance to contribute that way, even if you don't code.</p><p>--Julian</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You do n't have to be a programmer to participate in projects .
They need bug reports , they need feature ideas , they need people to help organize the roadmap and say what will make the next version the best version ever.A lot of open source projects could really use the input of real life users .
The developers may not use the actual software as much as you do , so your opinions about what features are truly important and what are nice to have , can often be more important than the developer 's opinions.So participate in the communities that produce the software you use .
You 'll help them make better software , and you 'll get better software in return .
If you need justification/rationale for your boss , you can point out that it 's no different from corporate customers of Microsoft who participate in beta programs for software they use , or provide other feedback on advance copies .
Open source is a perpetual advance copy of the next release , so you always have a chance to contribute that way , even if you do n't code.--Julian</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You don't have to be a programmer to participate in projects.
They need bug reports, they need feature ideas, they need people to help organize the roadmap and say what will make the next version the best version ever.A lot of open source projects could really use the input of real life users.
The developers may not use the actual software as much as you do, so your opinions about what features are truly important and what are nice to have, can often be more important than the developer's opinions.So participate in the communities that produce the software you use.
You'll help them make better software, and you'll get better software in return.
If you need justification/rationale for your boss, you can point out that it's no different from corporate customers of Microsoft who participate in beta programs for software they use, or provide other feedback on advance copies.
Open source is a perpetual advance copy of the next release, so you always have a chance to contribute that way, even if you don't code.--Julian</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531354</id>
	<title>Re:Bug Reports</title>
	<author>xaxa</author>
	<datestamp>1261488780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Use it, submit bug reports, and participate on forums.</p></div><p>And do so with your<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.gov (or whatever) email address. It's very discreet, but I notice it, so I assume other people do.</p><p>(Also, I tend to put more effort into mailing list posts from my work address rather than my personal address.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Use it , submit bug reports , and participate on forums.And do so with your .gov ( or whatever ) email address .
It 's very discreet , but I notice it , so I assume other people do .
( Also , I tend to put more effort into mailing list posts from my work address rather than my personal address .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Use it, submit bug reports, and participate on forums.And do so with your .gov (or whatever) email address.
It's very discreet, but I notice it, so I assume other people do.
(Also, I tend to put more effort into mailing list posts from my work address rather than my personal address.
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530038</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30532402</id>
	<title>Give a presentation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261501020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Give a presentation at a conference or seminar demonstrating your use.  It's a win for the agency and for the projects you use.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Give a presentation at a conference or seminar demonstrating your use .
It 's a win for the agency and for the projects you use .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Give a presentation at a conference or seminar demonstrating your use.
It's a win for the agency and for the projects you use.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530000</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530316</id>
	<title>Some ideas</title>
	<author>booch</author>
	<datestamp>1261482180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not directly aimed at your particular situation, but I created a list of ways for non-programmers to contribute:</p><ul>
  <li>Submit bug reports</li><li>Suggest new features and options</li><li>Make other comments on how to improve the the quality of the program</li><li>Help write good documentation</li><li>Translate the documentation (and program text) into another language</li><li>Read exisiting documentation, follow the examples, and make corrections</li><li>Correct spelling and grammar mistakes in documentation</li><li>Develop spelling and grammar style conventions for documentors</li><li>Build a glossary of technical terms</li><li>Convert documentation into more useful formats (i.e. DocBook)</li><li>Create templates to write documentation in a WYSIWYG word processor (AbiWord, KWord) and XSLT to transform it into DocBook</li><li>Create diagrams, screen-shots, and graphics for documentation</li><li>Submit graphics (icons, backgrounds) to use in the program</li><li>Help other people learn how to use the program (answer questions on mailing lists or IRC channels)</li><li>Write an email expressing your appreciation for the programs you use</li><li>Send the programmers post cards</li><li>Send the programmers a virtual beer</li><li>Write your legislators about the concerns that Open Source programmers have with recent and upcoming legislation</li><li>Write book reviews and critiques</li><li>Write a book</li><li>Maintain a FAQ or HOWTO document</li><li>Help organize LUG events, including InstallFests, BugFests, and DocFests</li><li>Help write articles for the LUG newsletter</li><li>Help update the LUG web site</li><li>Help maintain a web site for an Open Source project</li><li>Design a better user interface for your favorite program (GLADE and Qt Designer are great for mocking up a new UI)</li><li>Run usability studies</li><li>Create validation or regression test cases</li><li>See how a program handles streams of random data</li><li>Package the application for a particular Linux distro (or other OS)</li><li>Get the program to compile on a new platform</li><li>Create a Linux advocacy web site (probably not so easy to do right)</li><li>Provide training to new Linux users</li><li>Read relevant standards and make sure the program follows them</li><li>Convince people to chose Open Source products when possible</li><li>Write up case studies of successful Open Source implementations</li><li>Send the programmers some money</li></ul><p>The original list can be found <a href="http://www.granneman.com/techinfo/linux/contributewithoutcoding.htm" title="granneman.com">here</a> [granneman.com].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not directly aimed at your particular situation , but I created a list of ways for non-programmers to contribute : Submit bug reportsSuggest new features and optionsMake other comments on how to improve the the quality of the programHelp write good documentationTranslate the documentation ( and program text ) into another languageRead exisiting documentation , follow the examples , and make correctionsCorrect spelling and grammar mistakes in documentationDevelop spelling and grammar style conventions for documentorsBuild a glossary of technical termsConvert documentation into more useful formats ( i.e .
DocBook ) Create templates to write documentation in a WYSIWYG word processor ( AbiWord , KWord ) and XSLT to transform it into DocBookCreate diagrams , screen-shots , and graphics for documentationSubmit graphics ( icons , backgrounds ) to use in the programHelp other people learn how to use the program ( answer questions on mailing lists or IRC channels ) Write an email expressing your appreciation for the programs you useSend the programmers post cardsSend the programmers a virtual beerWrite your legislators about the concerns that Open Source programmers have with recent and upcoming legislationWrite book reviews and critiquesWrite a bookMaintain a FAQ or HOWTO documentHelp organize LUG events , including InstallFests , BugFests , and DocFestsHelp write articles for the LUG newsletterHelp update the LUG web siteHelp maintain a web site for an Open Source projectDesign a better user interface for your favorite program ( GLADE and Qt Designer are great for mocking up a new UI ) Run usability studiesCreate validation or regression test casesSee how a program handles streams of random dataPackage the application for a particular Linux distro ( or other OS ) Get the program to compile on a new platformCreate a Linux advocacy web site ( probably not so easy to do right ) Provide training to new Linux usersRead relevant standards and make sure the program follows themConvince people to chose Open Source products when possibleWrite up case studies of successful Open Source implementationsSend the programmers some moneyThe original list can be found here [ granneman.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not directly aimed at your particular situation, but I created a list of ways for non-programmers to contribute:
  Submit bug reportsSuggest new features and optionsMake other comments on how to improve the the quality of the programHelp write good documentationTranslate the documentation (and program text) into another languageRead exisiting documentation, follow the examples, and make correctionsCorrect spelling and grammar mistakes in documentationDevelop spelling and grammar style conventions for documentorsBuild a glossary of technical termsConvert documentation into more useful formats (i.e.
DocBook)Create templates to write documentation in a WYSIWYG word processor (AbiWord, KWord) and XSLT to transform it into DocBookCreate diagrams, screen-shots, and graphics for documentationSubmit graphics (icons, backgrounds) to use in the programHelp other people learn how to use the program (answer questions on mailing lists or IRC channels)Write an email expressing your appreciation for the programs you useSend the programmers post cardsSend the programmers a virtual beerWrite your legislators about the concerns that Open Source programmers have with recent and upcoming legislationWrite book reviews and critiquesWrite a bookMaintain a FAQ or HOWTO documentHelp organize LUG events, including InstallFests, BugFests, and DocFestsHelp write articles for the LUG newsletterHelp update the LUG web siteHelp maintain a web site for an Open Source projectDesign a better user interface for your favorite program (GLADE and Qt Designer are great for mocking up a new UI)Run usability studiesCreate validation or regression test casesSee how a program handles streams of random dataPackage the application for a particular Linux distro (or other OS)Get the program to compile on a new platformCreate a Linux advocacy web site (probably not so easy to do right)Provide training to new Linux usersRead relevant standards and make sure the program follows themConvince people to chose Open Source products when possibleWrite up case studies of successful Open Source implementationsSend the programmers some moneyThe original list can be found here [granneman.com].</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30533870</id>
	<title>Other possibilities</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259752860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Contributing to OpenSource shouldn't be all about $$$.</p><p>Money is needed, but there are other things.</p><p>Contributions could also be in the form of:<br>- Detailed bug reports.<br>- Usage feedback, including suggestions for improvements (new features, etc).<br>- User support via helping answer questions within project forums.<br>- Helping with language translations.<br>- If you're artistically inclined; helping with GUI art (buttons etc).</p><p>There are more requirements to an open source project than just coding &amp; money.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Contributing to OpenSource should n't be all about $ $ $ .Money is needed , but there are other things.Contributions could also be in the form of : - Detailed bug reports.- Usage feedback , including suggestions for improvements ( new features , etc ) .- User support via helping answer questions within project forums.- Helping with language translations.- If you 're artistically inclined ; helping with GUI art ( buttons etc ) .There are more requirements to an open source project than just coding &amp; money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Contributing to OpenSource shouldn't be all about $$$.Money is needed, but there are other things.Contributions could also be in the form of:- Detailed bug reports.- Usage feedback, including suggestions for improvements (new features, etc).- User support via helping answer questions within project forums.- Helping with language translations.- If you're artistically inclined; helping with GUI art (buttons etc).There are more requirements to an open source project than just coding &amp; money.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30532284</id>
	<title>Re:You're doing it wrong.</title>
	<author>QuantumRiff</author>
	<datestamp>1261499520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Second... I don't want my tax dollars being used for a mirror server. Plenty of other people do that already, and even if they didn't, we have bittorrent.</p></div><p>Um, one of the largest mirrors for Kernel.org, Firefox, Mozilla and drupal, among many others, is the Oregon State University Open Source Lab. Sure, they have some donations from google now, but its still in the basement of a public university...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Second... I do n't want my tax dollars being used for a mirror server .
Plenty of other people do that already , and even if they did n't , we have bittorrent.Um , one of the largest mirrors for Kernel.org , Firefox , Mozilla and drupal , among many others , is the Oregon State University Open Source Lab .
Sure , they have some donations from google now , but its still in the basement of a public university.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Second... I don't want my tax dollars being used for a mirror server.
Plenty of other people do that already, and even if they didn't, we have bittorrent.Um, one of the largest mirrors for Kernel.org, Firefox, Mozilla and drupal, among many others, is the Oregon State University Open Source Lab.
Sure, they have some donations from google now, but its still in the basement of a public university...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30529984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530552</id>
	<title>Re:You're doing it wrong.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261483320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>First, if your manager says don't put up a web page, then don't. End of discussion. Yes he might be wrong. In fact, it's likely he's wrong.</p></div></blockquote><p>
Indeed, heaven forbid we might imply that we actually ENDORSE the software we use!!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>First , if your manager says do n't put up a web page , then do n't .
End of discussion .
Yes he might be wrong .
In fact , it 's likely he 's wrong .
Indeed , heaven forbid we might imply that we actually ENDORSE the software we use !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First, if your manager says don't put up a web page, then don't.
End of discussion.
Yes he might be wrong.
In fact, it's likely he's wrong.
Indeed, heaven forbid we might imply that we actually ENDORSE the software we use!
!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30529984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530238</id>
	<title>Potential Employees</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261481820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do you have the software you use listed somewhere to aid job applicants or to steer people familiar with that software toward you?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you have the software you use listed somewhere to aid job applicants or to steer people familiar with that software toward you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you have the software you use listed somewhere to aid job applicants or to steer people familiar with that software toward you?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30533148</id>
	<title>Look at the U of Utah as an example</title>
	<author>Lorien\_the\_first\_one</author>
	<datestamp>1261511040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The UofU is a public school of higher education *and* it has an ubuntu mirror.  Very cool.  Check them out and ask around to see how they did it.  Considering the conservative leanings of the electorate in this state, someone should be complaining about that mirror, but I don't see it happening.
<br> <br>
Hope that helps.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The UofU is a public school of higher education * and * it has an ubuntu mirror .
Very cool .
Check them out and ask around to see how they did it .
Considering the conservative leanings of the electorate in this state , someone should be complaining about that mirror , but I do n't see it happening .
Hope that helps .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The UofU is a public school of higher education *and* it has an ubuntu mirror.
Very cool.
Check them out and ask around to see how they did it.
Considering the conservative leanings of the electorate in this state, someone should be complaining about that mirror, but I don't see it happening.
Hope that helps.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30535472</id>
	<title>Re:Sponsor it</title>
	<author>plcurechax</author>
	<datestamp>1259771040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Another means of doing this (sponsoring development) is to directly hire co-op or term contract employment of OSS developers to develop or maintain software that you already use.</p><p>Think of Google's Summer of Code on a small scale.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Another means of doing this ( sponsoring development ) is to directly hire co-op or term contract employment of OSS developers to develop or maintain software that you already use.Think of Google 's Summer of Code on a small scale .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Another means of doing this (sponsoring development) is to directly hire co-op or term contract employment of OSS developers to develop or maintain software that you already use.Think of Google's Summer of Code on a small scale.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530414</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30535752</id>
	<title>Maintain it</title>
	<author>Sloppy</author>
	<datestamp>1259772900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have never heard of anyone taking any non-trivial (hello world) piece of software and being 100\% happy with it as-is.  The neat thing about Free Software is that you can actually get the maintenance that you want.  So if you're doing that in-house, just make sure you offer your changes back.  Or hire someone to add the things that you want.  That's not a gift; that's quid-pro-quo.  And while it may <em>sound</em> expensive at first, I have heard of governments spending <em>outrageous</em> amounts of money just buying updates for proprietary software, and it's just blindly accepted.  There's no reason that same money (or a fraction thereof) can't be spent on <em>targeted</em> we-want-this-feature maintenance instead.</p><blockquote><div><p>I had the idea to put up a Web page stating that we 'use the following free software to save tax dollars,' as a way to help spread the word about open source software, but management calls this an 'endorsement.'</p></div></blockquote><p>Then do an implicit endorsement, like most Microsoft users do.  If <em>they</em> can put MS Word<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.doc files on their webservers and email attachments (the message being, "If you don't use proprietary (specifically Microsoft) products, then FUCK YOU!"), then <em>you</em> can use standardized formats instead, and the counter-message ("If you don't use proprietary products, that's ok") will be clear even though it's implicit.</p><p>Another thing you can do is Not Worry.  Even if you don't fund Free Software, when you use it, at least you're not funding proprietary software or locking your users into it.  Abstaining from creating a harmful network effect, can be viewed as a positive thing in itself.  Yeah, this is weak and indirect, but it's <em>something.</em></p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have never heard of anyone taking any non-trivial ( hello world ) piece of software and being 100 \ % happy with it as-is .
The neat thing about Free Software is that you can actually get the maintenance that you want .
So if you 're doing that in-house , just make sure you offer your changes back .
Or hire someone to add the things that you want .
That 's not a gift ; that 's quid-pro-quo .
And while it may sound expensive at first , I have heard of governments spending outrageous amounts of money just buying updates for proprietary software , and it 's just blindly accepted .
There 's no reason that same money ( or a fraction thereof ) ca n't be spent on targeted we-want-this-feature maintenance instead.I had the idea to put up a Web page stating that we 'use the following free software to save tax dollars, ' as a way to help spread the word about open source software , but management calls this an 'endorsement .
'Then do an implicit endorsement , like most Microsoft users do .
If they can put MS Word .doc files on their webservers and email attachments ( the message being , " If you do n't use proprietary ( specifically Microsoft ) products , then FUCK YOU !
" ) , then you can use standardized formats instead , and the counter-message ( " If you do n't use proprietary products , that 's ok " ) will be clear even though it 's implicit.Another thing you can do is Not Worry .
Even if you do n't fund Free Software , when you use it , at least you 're not funding proprietary software or locking your users into it .
Abstaining from creating a harmful network effect , can be viewed as a positive thing in itself .
Yeah , this is weak and indirect , but it 's something .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have never heard of anyone taking any non-trivial (hello world) piece of software and being 100\% happy with it as-is.
The neat thing about Free Software is that you can actually get the maintenance that you want.
So if you're doing that in-house, just make sure you offer your changes back.
Or hire someone to add the things that you want.
That's not a gift; that's quid-pro-quo.
And while it may sound expensive at first, I have heard of governments spending outrageous amounts of money just buying updates for proprietary software, and it's just blindly accepted.
There's no reason that same money (or a fraction thereof) can't be spent on targeted we-want-this-feature maintenance instead.I had the idea to put up a Web page stating that we 'use the following free software to save tax dollars,' as a way to help spread the word about open source software, but management calls this an 'endorsement.
'Then do an implicit endorsement, like most Microsoft users do.
If they can put MS Word .doc files on their webservers and email attachments (the message being, "If you don't use proprietary (specifically Microsoft) products, then FUCK YOU!
"), then you can use standardized formats instead, and the counter-message ("If you don't use proprietary products, that's ok") will be clear even though it's implicit.Another thing you can do is Not Worry.
Even if you don't fund Free Software, when you use it, at least you're not funding proprietary software or locking your users into it.
Abstaining from creating a harmful network effect, can be viewed as a positive thing in itself.
Yeah, this is weak and indirect, but it's something.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530494</id>
	<title>Re:You're doing it wrong.</title>
	<author>solid\_liq</author>
	<datestamp>1261482900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Second... I don't want my tax dollars being used for a mirror server."
<br> <br>
You sound like a Microsoft junkie.  I suppose you think opensource is, "evil evil bad!"?</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Second... I do n't want my tax dollars being used for a mirror server .
" You sound like a Microsoft junkie .
I suppose you think opensource is , " evil evil bad !
" ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Second... I don't want my tax dollars being used for a mirror server.
"
 
You sound like a Microsoft junkie.
I suppose you think opensource is, "evil evil bad!
"?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30529984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531568</id>
	<title>Re:You're doing it wrong.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261490880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>working in R&amp;D for the federal government, I've been trying to promote open source scientific and technical software, as well as acrobat/photoshop/etc alternatives that are decent quality. Obviously I can't use my position to promote one solution over another. But my personal software choices make a local budget difference (a matlab license is not cheap).  Also, when appropriate I reference the technical software I use in any conference and journal papers I write. "simulations were performed with the open source ELMER finite element code, etc."  Using Octave, I've run across my share of bugs and fed them back into the system, and I documented typo's and edits in the Elmer documentation as I was learning it.</p><p>So, there are ways to contribute even if you aren't a coder. If you are, maybe you can argue benefit of a bit of your time improving and fixing the software. Keep it focused, though. don't want to detract from the cause.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>working in R&amp;D for the federal government , I 've been trying to promote open source scientific and technical software , as well as acrobat/photoshop/etc alternatives that are decent quality .
Obviously I ca n't use my position to promote one solution over another .
But my personal software choices make a local budget difference ( a matlab license is not cheap ) .
Also , when appropriate I reference the technical software I use in any conference and journal papers I write .
" simulations were performed with the open source ELMER finite element code , etc .
" Using Octave , I 've run across my share of bugs and fed them back into the system , and I documented typo 's and edits in the Elmer documentation as I was learning it.So , there are ways to contribute even if you are n't a coder .
If you are , maybe you can argue benefit of a bit of your time improving and fixing the software .
Keep it focused , though .
do n't want to detract from the cause .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>working in R&amp;D for the federal government, I've been trying to promote open source scientific and technical software, as well as acrobat/photoshop/etc alternatives that are decent quality.
Obviously I can't use my position to promote one solution over another.
But my personal software choices make a local budget difference (a matlab license is not cheap).
Also, when appropriate I reference the technical software I use in any conference and journal papers I write.
"simulations were performed with the open source ELMER finite element code, etc.
"  Using Octave, I've run across my share of bugs and fed them back into the system, and I documented typo's and edits in the Elmer documentation as I was learning it.So, there are ways to contribute even if you aren't a coder.
If you are, maybe you can argue benefit of a bit of your time improving and fixing the software.
Keep it focused, though.
don't want to detract from the cause.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530132</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30532840</id>
	<title>Re:Pay for your free licenses</title>
	<author>atomic-penguin</author>
	<datestamp>1261506900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The original poster was vague about the type of open source software which is saving the taxpayers money.  It may be a distribution, or it may be an entirely different animal, such as one single desktop application, or enterprise-level server software.</p><blockquote><div><p>This means you could for-instance switch from Windows to KDE on 100 desktops and offer the KDE project the bargain basement fee of $10 per PC, per year to deliver the desktop the way you like and respond to concerns.</p><p>This means you could for-instance switch from Windows to KDE on 100 desktops and offer the KDE project the bargain basement fee of $10 per PC, per year to deliver the desktop the way you like and respond to concerns.</p></div></blockquote><p>No, it doesn't.  If the policy is, that you can't donate, then you can't *bleeping* donate. It is entirely possible this advice could lead to charges of fraud, other felony charges for misappropriation of funds, and jail time.</p><p>The support level circumstances vary per vendor, and size, of the Open Source project.  For your particular example, there is no company, which I know of, that offers Support Level Agreements for "just KDE".  However, if the OSS package is a "supported" package by your distro vendor of choice, then you legitimately purchase support contracts.  Using your example of 100 KDE desktops, you could buy 100 Kubuntu Advanced Support contracts from Canonical at roughly $120 per year which comes out to $12,000, not $1,000 as in your example.  Chances are that you are using more than KDE, as one component, in an entire distribution.  If you are going to advocate buying support, then advocate buying a support contract.  There are obviously other ways you can contribute to an Open Source distribution project, other than monetary contributions. Things that come to mind are: working on documentation or translations; filing bug reports; packaging software.</p><p>Many large and well-established Open Source products have companies that will offer paid support for that particular product. If my organization wants a support contract for wine, because they might need to run a Windows-only Office Suite or a particular version of Photoshop.  Then they could buy a copy of Crossover Pro from Codeweavers for roughly $70 per copy, and a support extension for $35 year per copy. This money gets you both support, and directly supports the enhancement and development of wine.  Although the prices vary, this same support system has been applied to other projects such as Samba. You can buy enterprise support from a company such as Likewise, a vendor who offers a "Samba-like" product and directly supports the enhancement and development of Samba through paid developers. Otherwise, you can buy support from a distro vendor such as Novell or RedHat at a cost of $60-800 per server each year, just for the base OS and standard server applications.  Enterprise distro maintainers also have paid developers whom contribute a great deal to the enhancement and development of enterprise-level server applications.</p><p>Some exceptions are when you have a small, hobbyist, higher-ed, or government Open Source project.  Maybe it is a new and small project. Perhaps they have only 1 or 2 developers that work on the project part-time.  These type of projects probably do not have an established support system.  The developers may not even be able to take monetary contributions, or have a system set up to do so.  Some developers may have to opt for gifts purchased through an Amazon wist list for legal reasons.  Accepting donations may be a legal issue with an employer who pays the developer to work on that particular Open Source project. It is another issue if the developer is a government employee and is forbidden to take large gifts, or accept money, which could be construed as a bribe (assuming they work on this project as part of their job).</p><p>I was involved in consulting work, a few years back, for a fairly large hospital.  The hospital made use of Open Source Firmware for commodity Linksys Wireless Routers.  They even got some assistance with feature requests to be added to the firmware image. The developer that helped them out was a teenager on the project's user mailing list.  For whatever reason, they couldn't contribute financially to the project, or by gifting something from a wish list to the kid.  I don't know if it was a regulation of their own, or a policy of the project itself.  I believe they ended up making a significant donation to the EFF or FSF, in the developer's name.</p><p>Obviously, you can make small contributions, on your own as the original poster has, to many small Open Source projects on Sourceforge through paypal.  Ten dollars may not help the project significantly.  But you simply cannot commit outright fraud at the taxpayer's expense and hope to get away with it.  It is too personally risky for the original poster.  If the original poster had been less vague about this particular Open Source project, then it could provide some further insight and context for this particular situation.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The original poster was vague about the type of open source software which is saving the taxpayers money .
It may be a distribution , or it may be an entirely different animal , such as one single desktop application , or enterprise-level server software.This means you could for-instance switch from Windows to KDE on 100 desktops and offer the KDE project the bargain basement fee of $ 10 per PC , per year to deliver the desktop the way you like and respond to concerns.This means you could for-instance switch from Windows to KDE on 100 desktops and offer the KDE project the bargain basement fee of $ 10 per PC , per year to deliver the desktop the way you like and respond to concerns.No , it does n't .
If the policy is , that you ca n't donate , then you ca n't * bleeping * donate .
It is entirely possible this advice could lead to charges of fraud , other felony charges for misappropriation of funds , and jail time.The support level circumstances vary per vendor , and size , of the Open Source project .
For your particular example , there is no company , which I know of , that offers Support Level Agreements for " just KDE " .
However , if the OSS package is a " supported " package by your distro vendor of choice , then you legitimately purchase support contracts .
Using your example of 100 KDE desktops , you could buy 100 Kubuntu Advanced Support contracts from Canonical at roughly $ 120 per year which comes out to $ 12,000 , not $ 1,000 as in your example .
Chances are that you are using more than KDE , as one component , in an entire distribution .
If you are going to advocate buying support , then advocate buying a support contract .
There are obviously other ways you can contribute to an Open Source distribution project , other than monetary contributions .
Things that come to mind are : working on documentation or translations ; filing bug reports ; packaging software.Many large and well-established Open Source products have companies that will offer paid support for that particular product .
If my organization wants a support contract for wine , because they might need to run a Windows-only Office Suite or a particular version of Photoshop .
Then they could buy a copy of Crossover Pro from Codeweavers for roughly $ 70 per copy , and a support extension for $ 35 year per copy .
This money gets you both support , and directly supports the enhancement and development of wine .
Although the prices vary , this same support system has been applied to other projects such as Samba .
You can buy enterprise support from a company such as Likewise , a vendor who offers a " Samba-like " product and directly supports the enhancement and development of Samba through paid developers .
Otherwise , you can buy support from a distro vendor such as Novell or RedHat at a cost of $ 60-800 per server each year , just for the base OS and standard server applications .
Enterprise distro maintainers also have paid developers whom contribute a great deal to the enhancement and development of enterprise-level server applications.Some exceptions are when you have a small , hobbyist , higher-ed , or government Open Source project .
Maybe it is a new and small project .
Perhaps they have only 1 or 2 developers that work on the project part-time .
These type of projects probably do not have an established support system .
The developers may not even be able to take monetary contributions , or have a system set up to do so .
Some developers may have to opt for gifts purchased through an Amazon wist list for legal reasons .
Accepting donations may be a legal issue with an employer who pays the developer to work on that particular Open Source project .
It is another issue if the developer is a government employee and is forbidden to take large gifts , or accept money , which could be construed as a bribe ( assuming they work on this project as part of their job ) .I was involved in consulting work , a few years back , for a fairly large hospital .
The hospital made use of Open Source Firmware for commodity Linksys Wireless Routers .
They even got some assistance with feature requests to be added to the firmware image .
The developer that helped them out was a teenager on the project 's user mailing list .
For whatever reason , they could n't contribute financially to the project , or by gifting something from a wish list to the kid .
I do n't know if it was a regulation of their own , or a policy of the project itself .
I believe they ended up making a significant donation to the EFF or FSF , in the developer 's name.Obviously , you can make small contributions , on your own as the original poster has , to many small Open Source projects on Sourceforge through paypal .
Ten dollars may not help the project significantly .
But you simply can not commit outright fraud at the taxpayer 's expense and hope to get away with it .
It is too personally risky for the original poster .
If the original poster had been less vague about this particular Open Source project , then it could provide some further insight and context for this particular situation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The original poster was vague about the type of open source software which is saving the taxpayers money.
It may be a distribution, or it may be an entirely different animal, such as one single desktop application, or enterprise-level server software.This means you could for-instance switch from Windows to KDE on 100 desktops and offer the KDE project the bargain basement fee of $10 per PC, per year to deliver the desktop the way you like and respond to concerns.This means you could for-instance switch from Windows to KDE on 100 desktops and offer the KDE project the bargain basement fee of $10 per PC, per year to deliver the desktop the way you like and respond to concerns.No, it doesn't.
If the policy is, that you can't donate, then you can't *bleeping* donate.
It is entirely possible this advice could lead to charges of fraud, other felony charges for misappropriation of funds, and jail time.The support level circumstances vary per vendor, and size, of the Open Source project.
For your particular example, there is no company, which I know of, that offers Support Level Agreements for "just KDE".
However, if the OSS package is a "supported" package by your distro vendor of choice, then you legitimately purchase support contracts.
Using your example of 100 KDE desktops, you could buy 100 Kubuntu Advanced Support contracts from Canonical at roughly $120 per year which comes out to $12,000, not $1,000 as in your example.
Chances are that you are using more than KDE, as one component, in an entire distribution.
If you are going to advocate buying support, then advocate buying a support contract.
There are obviously other ways you can contribute to an Open Source distribution project, other than monetary contributions.
Things that come to mind are: working on documentation or translations; filing bug reports; packaging software.Many large and well-established Open Source products have companies that will offer paid support for that particular product.
If my organization wants a support contract for wine, because they might need to run a Windows-only Office Suite or a particular version of Photoshop.
Then they could buy a copy of Crossover Pro from Codeweavers for roughly $70 per copy, and a support extension for $35 year per copy.
This money gets you both support, and directly supports the enhancement and development of wine.
Although the prices vary, this same support system has been applied to other projects such as Samba.
You can buy enterprise support from a company such as Likewise, a vendor who offers a "Samba-like" product and directly supports the enhancement and development of Samba through paid developers.
Otherwise, you can buy support from a distro vendor such as Novell or RedHat at a cost of $60-800 per server each year, just for the base OS and standard server applications.
Enterprise distro maintainers also have paid developers whom contribute a great deal to the enhancement and development of enterprise-level server applications.Some exceptions are when you have a small, hobbyist, higher-ed, or government Open Source project.
Maybe it is a new and small project.
Perhaps they have only 1 or 2 developers that work on the project part-time.
These type of projects probably do not have an established support system.
The developers may not even be able to take monetary contributions, or have a system set up to do so.
Some developers may have to opt for gifts purchased through an Amazon wist list for legal reasons.
Accepting donations may be a legal issue with an employer who pays the developer to work on that particular Open Source project.
It is another issue if the developer is a government employee and is forbidden to take large gifts, or accept money, which could be construed as a bribe (assuming they work on this project as part of their job).I was involved in consulting work, a few years back, for a fairly large hospital.
The hospital made use of Open Source Firmware for commodity Linksys Wireless Routers.
They even got some assistance with feature requests to be added to the firmware image.
The developer that helped them out was a teenager on the project's user mailing list.
For whatever reason, they couldn't contribute financially to the project, or by gifting something from a wish list to the kid.
I don't know if it was a regulation of their own, or a policy of the project itself.
I believe they ended up making a significant donation to the EFF or FSF, in the developer's name.Obviously, you can make small contributions, on your own as the original poster has, to many small Open Source projects on Sourceforge through paypal.
Ten dollars may not help the project significantly.
But you simply cannot commit outright fraud at the taxpayer's expense and hope to get away with it.
It is too personally risky for the original poster.
If the original poster had been less vague about this particular Open Source project, then it could provide some further insight and context for this particular situation.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530432</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30534488</id>
	<title>Re:Some ideas</title>
	<author>saibot834</author>
	<datestamp>1259764320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you speak languages other than English, contributing to translations is a good and effective way of helping. One platform where you can do so it <a href="http://translatewiki.net/" title="translatewiki.net">translatewiki.net</a> [translatewiki.net]. It started as a project to translate MediaWiki, but now every free software project can handle their translations through translatewiki. It works quite well, there about 55 languages in which &gt;99\% of all MediaWiki messages are translated. (Don't worry, there is enough work to do on other translatewiki projects)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you speak languages other than English , contributing to translations is a good and effective way of helping .
One platform where you can do so it translatewiki.net [ translatewiki.net ] .
It started as a project to translate MediaWiki , but now every free software project can handle their translations through translatewiki .
It works quite well , there about 55 languages in which &gt; 99 \ % of all MediaWiki messages are translated .
( Do n't worry , there is enough work to do on other translatewiki projects )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you speak languages other than English, contributing to translations is a good and effective way of helping.
One platform where you can do so it translatewiki.net [translatewiki.net].
It started as a project to translate MediaWiki, but now every free software project can handle their translations through translatewiki.
It works quite well, there about 55 languages in which &gt;99\% of all MediaWiki messages are translated.
(Don't worry, there is enough work to do on other translatewiki projects)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530316</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30533760</id>
	<title>Re:Software isn't just programming...</title>
	<author>crimperman</author>
	<datestamp>1259749920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just to back the parent up - there are definitely more ways to contribute than coding. Find your particular niche skill and find how it might help.</p><p>* You may not think of yourself as a documenter but can't you post useful bug reports?<br>* You may not think of yourself as a programmer but can't you contribute to user wish lists and feedback?<br>* You may not think of yourself as a teacher but can't you give advice on forums?</p><p>I code free software as part of my job and my hobby but I've found other ways to contribute outside of coding as well (I don't do all of these myself):</p><p>* Advocacy : tell your friends &amp; help them<br>* Artwork : I recently came up with a couple of additional "playgrounds" for <a href="http://games.kde.org/game.php?game=ktuberling" title="kde.org">Ktuberling</a> [kde.org] for my kids. They liked them so much I'm considering submitting them to the project. It was really easy - draw the objects in inkscape and edit a text file. Okay you need the graphics skills but just saying it wasn't a programming task<br>* Translations : We participate in a multi-cultural web and sometimes your language won't be the first language of those behind the project. They may have made a sterling effort but the grammar needs tidying or something - you could help with that.<br>* Packaging : some packages are only available in rpm or deb or just source and they need packagers to make them available in other formats<br>* Testing : you can use software so can you not test it?</p><p>You've made a good start asking here but really - just go out there and do it. Browse the forums, read the <a href="http://sourceforge.net/people/" title="sourceforge.net">help wanted</a> [sourceforge.net] section on Sourceforge and don't forget you can and should engage with the developers of free software.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just to back the parent up - there are definitely more ways to contribute than coding .
Find your particular niche skill and find how it might help .
* You may not think of yourself as a documenter but ca n't you post useful bug reports ?
* You may not think of yourself as a programmer but ca n't you contribute to user wish lists and feedback ?
* You may not think of yourself as a teacher but ca n't you give advice on forums ? I code free software as part of my job and my hobby but I 've found other ways to contribute outside of coding as well ( I do n't do all of these myself ) : * Advocacy : tell your friends &amp; help them * Artwork : I recently came up with a couple of additional " playgrounds " for Ktuberling [ kde.org ] for my kids .
They liked them so much I 'm considering submitting them to the project .
It was really easy - draw the objects in inkscape and edit a text file .
Okay you need the graphics skills but just saying it was n't a programming task * Translations : We participate in a multi-cultural web and sometimes your language wo n't be the first language of those behind the project .
They may have made a sterling effort but the grammar needs tidying or something - you could help with that .
* Packaging : some packages are only available in rpm or deb or just source and they need packagers to make them available in other formats * Testing : you can use software so can you not test it ? You 've made a good start asking here but really - just go out there and do it .
Browse the forums , read the help wanted [ sourceforge.net ] section on Sourceforge and do n't forget you can and should engage with the developers of free software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just to back the parent up - there are definitely more ways to contribute than coding.
Find your particular niche skill and find how it might help.
* You may not think of yourself as a documenter but can't you post useful bug reports?
* You may not think of yourself as a programmer but can't you contribute to user wish lists and feedback?
* You may not think of yourself as a teacher but can't you give advice on forums?I code free software as part of my job and my hobby but I've found other ways to contribute outside of coding as well (I don't do all of these myself):* Advocacy : tell your friends &amp; help them* Artwork : I recently came up with a couple of additional "playgrounds" for Ktuberling [kde.org] for my kids.
They liked them so much I'm considering submitting them to the project.
It was really easy - draw the objects in inkscape and edit a text file.
Okay you need the graphics skills but just saying it wasn't a programming task* Translations : We participate in a multi-cultural web and sometimes your language won't be the first language of those behind the project.
They may have made a sterling effort but the grammar needs tidying or something - you could help with that.
* Packaging : some packages are only available in rpm or deb or just source and they need packagers to make them available in other formats* Testing : you can use software so can you not test it?You've made a good start asking here but really - just go out there and do it.
Browse the forums, read the help wanted [sourceforge.net] section on Sourceforge and don't forget you can and should engage with the developers of free software.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530618</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530718</id>
	<title>Re:"Contributing" is impossible</title>
	<author>Lehk228</author>
	<datestamp>1261484220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>go have some fun living in somolia</htmltext>
<tokenext>go have some fun living in somolia</tokentext>
<sentencetext>go have some fun living in somolia</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30533164</id>
	<title>no donationats necessary</title>
	<author>OrangeTide</author>
	<datestamp>1261511160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That you're saving taxpayer dollars is good enough, really.</p><p>If you're feeling especially altruistic giving the authors of the projects you use some feedback on what features would help your organization use the open source software more effectively is normally well received and a wise developer values such feedback more than cash.</p><p>Many of us developers (open source or otherwise) have experiences that only covers a few industries and when we stray too far from those areas the needs and desires of users in other industries becomes a mystery to us.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That you 're saving taxpayer dollars is good enough , really.If you 're feeling especially altruistic giving the authors of the projects you use some feedback on what features would help your organization use the open source software more effectively is normally well received and a wise developer values such feedback more than cash.Many of us developers ( open source or otherwise ) have experiences that only covers a few industries and when we stray too far from those areas the needs and desires of users in other industries becomes a mystery to us .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That you're saving taxpayer dollars is good enough, really.If you're feeling especially altruistic giving the authors of the projects you use some feedback on what features would help your organization use the open source software more effectively is normally well received and a wise developer values such feedback more than cash.Many of us developers (open source or otherwise) have experiences that only covers a few industries and when we stray too far from those areas the needs and desires of users in other industries becomes a mystery to us.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30532114</id>
	<title>There are many ways to contribute to free software</title>
	<author>Dennis Sheil</author>
	<datestamp>1261496880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Money, code and endorsements are some methods of contributing, but there are many ways to help.<p>
This list is good, but it can also be used as a jumping off point.  For example "submit bug reports".  That is one thing you can do, but there are a lot of bug-related things you can do.  Bugs are reported to the wrong place, bugs are reported with little information etc.  Someone doing the grunt work dealing with that takes the load off of developers who can be doing higher level work. </p><p>
Also, I wouldn't sell myself short on coding ability.  Say someone files a bug that something that worked for them in version 2.3 is now broken in version 2.9.  You can go through the versions and see which was the last working version - this saves the developers time in having to do that.  You can even go through each code commit between versions and see which one broke the functionality - this will save developers even more time.  You can do a lot of grunt work to narrow down problems for developers without even really understanding how the code works.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Money , code and endorsements are some methods of contributing , but there are many ways to help .
This list is good , but it can also be used as a jumping off point .
For example " submit bug reports " .
That is one thing you can do , but there are a lot of bug-related things you can do .
Bugs are reported to the wrong place , bugs are reported with little information etc .
Someone doing the grunt work dealing with that takes the load off of developers who can be doing higher level work .
Also , I would n't sell myself short on coding ability .
Say someone files a bug that something that worked for them in version 2.3 is now broken in version 2.9 .
You can go through the versions and see which was the last working version - this saves the developers time in having to do that .
You can even go through each code commit between versions and see which one broke the functionality - this will save developers even more time .
You can do a lot of grunt work to narrow down problems for developers without even really understanding how the code works .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Money, code and endorsements are some methods of contributing, but there are many ways to help.
This list is good, but it can also be used as a jumping off point.
For example "submit bug reports".
That is one thing you can do, but there are a lot of bug-related things you can do.
Bugs are reported to the wrong place, bugs are reported with little information etc.
Someone doing the grunt work dealing with that takes the load off of developers who can be doing higher level work.
Also, I wouldn't sell myself short on coding ability.
Say someone files a bug that something that worked for them in version 2.3 is now broken in version 2.9.
You can go through the versions and see which was the last working version - this saves the developers time in having to do that.
You can even go through each code commit between versions and see which one broke the functionality - this will save developers even more time.
You can do a lot of grunt work to narrow down problems for developers without even really understanding how the code works.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530316</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531494</id>
	<title>Re:Get others in Gov to use it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261490040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Speak at industry/government events on open source in government. Write articles.</p><p>Good for open source, good for your career.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Speak at industry/government events on open source in government .
Write articles.Good for open source , good for your career .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Speak at industry/government events on open source in government.
Write articles.Good for open source, good for your career.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530000</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530360</id>
	<title>Contibute tempaltes, examples, help files, etc</title>
	<author>MountainLogic</author>
	<datestamp>1261482360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Some of your non-programming products that you do for an agency may be of values to others.  Even well supported programs like OpenOffice could use more examples, templates, artwork, tutorials, help files, etc.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Some of your non-programming products that you do for an agency may be of values to others .
Even well supported programs like OpenOffice could use more examples , templates , artwork , tutorials , help files , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some of your non-programming products that you do for an agency may be of values to others.
Even well supported programs like OpenOffice could use more examples, templates, artwork, tutorials, help files, etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530036</id>
	<title>"Contributing" is impossible</title>
	<author>Teppy</author>
	<datestamp>1261480920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Government operates by forcibly taking money from one person and giving it to another person or organization. So you can't "contribute" to open source any more than I can contribute my neighbor's car to a needy family.

That said, by using open source you're doing a noble thing: you're preventing that much taking-and-redistributing that would otherwise occur. So I agree with your boss - don't endorse, don't "contribute", but definitely use, thereby reducing the burden of government for everyone.

And, quietly spread the word to other government employees - it's rare to see such conscious actions by those in government.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Government operates by forcibly taking money from one person and giving it to another person or organization .
So you ca n't " contribute " to open source any more than I can contribute my neighbor 's car to a needy family .
That said , by using open source you 're doing a noble thing : you 're preventing that much taking-and-redistributing that would otherwise occur .
So I agree with your boss - do n't endorse , do n't " contribute " , but definitely use , thereby reducing the burden of government for everyone .
And , quietly spread the word to other government employees - it 's rare to see such conscious actions by those in government .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Government operates by forcibly taking money from one person and giving it to another person or organization.
So you can't "contribute" to open source any more than I can contribute my neighbor's car to a needy family.
That said, by using open source you're doing a noble thing: you're preventing that much taking-and-redistributing that would otherwise occur.
So I agree with your boss - don't endorse, don't "contribute", but definitely use, thereby reducing the burden of government for everyone.
And, quietly spread the word to other government employees - it's rare to see such conscious actions by those in government.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530126</id>
	<title>inform the developers, put it in a fiscal reports</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261481340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>informing the software developers that your goverment agency is using their software is not an endorsement, its just a statement of fact<br>you might have to state "this is not an endorsement" so they don't get confused,<br>and then they can list it on their "companies that use our products" page,<br>and its not an endorsement.</p><p>since goverment agencies produce fiscal reports, if you estimate how much you saved on licenses or maintenance, and put that in the report, it becomes public record</p><p>something like that</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>informing the software developers that your goverment agency is using their software is not an endorsement , its just a statement of factyou might have to state " this is not an endorsement " so they do n't get confused,and then they can list it on their " companies that use our products " page,and its not an endorsement.since goverment agencies produce fiscal reports , if you estimate how much you saved on licenses or maintenance , and put that in the report , it becomes public recordsomething like that</tokentext>
<sentencetext>informing the software developers that your goverment agency is using their software is not an endorsement, its just a statement of factyou might have to state "this is not an endorsement" so they don't get confused,and then they can list it on their "companies that use our products" page,and its not an endorsement.since goverment agencies produce fiscal reports, if you estimate how much you saved on licenses or maintenance, and put that in the report, it becomes public recordsomething like that</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30532322</id>
	<title>Re:"Contributing" is impossible</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261500060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If creating weapons is harmful work then using weapons must be more harmful work than that.</p><p>Why should soldiers be paid?  They just destroy things and cause harm.  They take money without doing anything productive.</p><p>The problem with trying to fix capitalism is that it's difficult to take all factors into account.  You would need to have someone decide what projects were worth capital investment and how people should be informed of what is available.  Or you could just let investors and advertisers do their job.</p><p>I find it ludicrous that someone with no understanding of economics can so freely criticize "the capitalist system".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If creating weapons is harmful work then using weapons must be more harmful work than that.Why should soldiers be paid ?
They just destroy things and cause harm .
They take money without doing anything productive.The problem with trying to fix capitalism is that it 's difficult to take all factors into account .
You would need to have someone decide what projects were worth capital investment and how people should be informed of what is available .
Or you could just let investors and advertisers do their job.I find it ludicrous that someone with no understanding of economics can so freely criticize " the capitalist system " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If creating weapons is harmful work then using weapons must be more harmful work than that.Why should soldiers be paid?
They just destroy things and cause harm.
They take money without doing anything productive.The problem with trying to fix capitalism is that it's difficult to take all factors into account.
You would need to have someone decide what projects were worth capital investment and how people should be informed of what is available.
Or you could just let investors and advertisers do their job.I find it ludicrous that someone with no understanding of economics can so freely criticize "the capitalist system".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530308</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531288</id>
	<title>Re:"Contributing" is impossible</title>
	<author>demonlapin</author>
	<datestamp>1261488180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>It is sometimes difficult to imagine that this many bad ideas can live in one person's head.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It is sometimes difficult to imagine that this many bad ideas can live in one person 's head .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is sometimes difficult to imagine that this many bad ideas can live in one person's head.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530308</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531422</id>
	<title>Re:"Contributing" is impossible</title>
	<author>bill\_mcgonigle</author>
	<datestamp>1261489320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> <i>And, quietly spread the word to other government employees - it's rare to see such conscious actions by those in government.</i></p></div> </blockquote><p>This.</p><p>Do brownbag lunches, write reports, do business case analysis.  Create a Center of Excellence with you as the director and spread the good news.  OK, that's probably Step 20, but you're on the right track.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And , quietly spread the word to other government employees - it 's rare to see such conscious actions by those in government .
This.Do brownbag lunches , write reports , do business case analysis .
Create a Center of Excellence with you as the director and spread the good news .
OK , that 's probably Step 20 , but you 're on the right track .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> And, quietly spread the word to other government employees - it's rare to see such conscious actions by those in government.
This.Do brownbag lunches, write reports, do business case analysis.
Create a Center of Excellence with you as the director and spread the good news.
OK, that's probably Step 20, but you're on the right track.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531728</id>
	<title>Re:"Contributing" is impossible</title>
	<author>icebraining</author>
	<datestamp>1261492320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you don't want them to contribute, they shouldn't use the program.</p><p>If you want them to use the program, they should contribute.</p><p>Wanting them to use it and not contribute isn't a libertarian move, it's just selfishness.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you do n't want them to contribute , they should n't use the program.If you want them to use the program , they should contribute.Wanting them to use it and not contribute is n't a libertarian move , it 's just selfishness .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you don't want them to contribute, they shouldn't use the program.If you want them to use the program, they should contribute.Wanting them to use it and not contribute isn't a libertarian move, it's just selfishness.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530132</id>
	<title>Re:You're doing it wrong.</title>
	<author>ThrowAwaySociety</author>
	<datestamp>1261481340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Second... I don't want my tax dollars being used for a mirror server. Plenty of other people do that already, and even if they didn't, we have bittorrent.</p></div><p>Indeed. Government should be as efficient as possible. As a public servant, your responsibility is to the taxpayers. You should offer only those contributions which do not increase the burden on those taxpayers, or which <i>directly</i> benefit them.</p><p>If you can't contribute bugfixes or enhancements, then contribute by filing bug reports and feature requests. Possibly documentation, but only if it is something that you, your coworkers, or your eventual replacement would use in the future. (IE documenting the structure of an unclear config file, not writing a detailed tutorial.)</p><p>Anything else you want to do, do it on your own time and your own dime.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Second... I do n't want my tax dollars being used for a mirror server .
Plenty of other people do that already , and even if they did n't , we have bittorrent.Indeed .
Government should be as efficient as possible .
As a public servant , your responsibility is to the taxpayers .
You should offer only those contributions which do not increase the burden on those taxpayers , or which directly benefit them.If you ca n't contribute bugfixes or enhancements , then contribute by filing bug reports and feature requests .
Possibly documentation , but only if it is something that you , your coworkers , or your eventual replacement would use in the future .
( IE documenting the structure of an unclear config file , not writing a detailed tutorial .
) Anything else you want to do , do it on your own time and your own dime .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Second... I don't want my tax dollars being used for a mirror server.
Plenty of other people do that already, and even if they didn't, we have bittorrent.Indeed.
Government should be as efficient as possible.
As a public servant, your responsibility is to the taxpayers.
You should offer only those contributions which do not increase the burden on those taxpayers, or which directly benefit them.If you can't contribute bugfixes or enhancements, then contribute by filing bug reports and feature requests.
Possibly documentation, but only if it is something that you, your coworkers, or your eventual replacement would use in the future.
(IE documenting the structure of an unclear config file, not writing a detailed tutorial.
)Anything else you want to do, do it on your own time and your own dime.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30529984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530042</id>
	<title>Metrics</title>
	<author>osopolar</author>
	<datestamp>1261480980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's all about metrics - just telling you boss is never the way to get things done.  Write a report - with real numbers, kind of like a cost/benefit ratio analysis.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's all about metrics - just telling you boss is never the way to get things done .
Write a report - with real numbers , kind of like a cost/benefit ratio analysis .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's all about metrics - just telling you boss is never the way to get things done.
Write a report - with real numbers, kind of like a cost/benefit ratio analysis.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531536</id>
	<title>Re:You're doing it wrong.</title>
	<author>rnturn</author>
	<datestamp>1261490580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> <i>"I don't want my tax dollars being used for a mirror server."</i></p></div> </blockquote><p>Hmm... I regularly download Linux patches from a mirror server located at a federally-operated site. I personally don't have a problem with that use of the taxpayers' money. Perhaps because I'm not one of those "turn everything over to the private marketplace" loons. That's not to say there aren't some uses of tax dollars that I find offensive. Things like blowing up civilians in foreign countries that really don't want us to be there, for example. But, hey, we all have our little eccentricities.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" I do n't want my tax dollars being used for a mirror server .
" Hmm... I regularly download Linux patches from a mirror server located at a federally-operated site .
I personally do n't have a problem with that use of the taxpayers ' money .
Perhaps because I 'm not one of those " turn everything over to the private marketplace " loons .
That 's not to say there are n't some uses of tax dollars that I find offensive .
Things like blowing up civilians in foreign countries that really do n't want us to be there , for example .
But , hey , we all have our little eccentricities .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> "I don't want my tax dollars being used for a mirror server.
" Hmm... I regularly download Linux patches from a mirror server located at a federally-operated site.
I personally don't have a problem with that use of the taxpayers' money.
Perhaps because I'm not one of those "turn everything over to the private marketplace" loons.
That's not to say there aren't some uses of tax dollars that I find offensive.
Things like blowing up civilians in foreign countries that really don't want us to be there, for example.
But, hey, we all have our little eccentricities.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30529984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30535178</id>
	<title>Hire someone to add a feature</title>
	<author>Nerdposeur</author>
	<datestamp>1259769480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you use a piece of FOSS software that lacks a feature you need, hire one of the project's developers to add that feature and contribute it back to the project.</p><p>This is great because:</p><p>1) You get the feature you need for a low, one-time cost<br>2) If it's added back to the main project, it simplifies your future installations<br>3) You help the project to continue development, which again benefits your organization in the future<br>4) This use of taxpayer money goes to create something that all citizens can use. Public dollars for public benefit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you use a piece of FOSS software that lacks a feature you need , hire one of the project 's developers to add that feature and contribute it back to the project.This is great because : 1 ) You get the feature you need for a low , one-time cost2 ) If it 's added back to the main project , it simplifies your future installations3 ) You help the project to continue development , which again benefits your organization in the future4 ) This use of taxpayer money goes to create something that all citizens can use .
Public dollars for public benefit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you use a piece of FOSS software that lacks a feature you need, hire one of the project's developers to add that feature and contribute it back to the project.This is great because:1) You get the feature you need for a low, one-time cost2) If it's added back to the main project, it simplifies your future installations3) You help the project to continue development, which again benefits your organization in the future4) This use of taxpayer money goes to create something that all citizens can use.
Public dollars for public benefit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530562</id>
	<title>Re:Documentation and boxed CDs!</title>
	<author>gbarules2999</author>
	<datestamp>1261483380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I fully agree. Maybe the author should tell us what software they are using in their organization so that we can give them some specific options in this vein.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I fully agree .
Maybe the author should tell us what software they are using in their organization so that we can give them some specific options in this vein .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I fully agree.
Maybe the author should tell us what software they are using in their organization so that we can give them some specific options in this vein.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530608</id>
	<title>Internal advocacy</title>
	<author>Black Sabbath</author>
	<datestamp>1261483620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The best thing you can do is internal advocacy. Keep reminding people how this "open source stuff" has helped deliver projects on time and under-budget (if it has). Keep reminding managers how well they've done to save taxpayers' money. By helping to change attitudes of management and raising the visibility of OSS to other stakeholders, you're making it easier for the next project for which OSS could be considered.</p><p>Always remember though that the business case trumps all. Just make sure that your business case includes all the relevant factors (TCO, maintainability, flexibility,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...) in which OSS often shines. If your business case for OSS doesn't stack up for a particular project - then don't push it. You are an advocate for doing your own job for your own company the best way possible - this may often mean using OSS. You are (most probably) NOT paid to be an OSS zealot or fanboi.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The best thing you can do is internal advocacy .
Keep reminding people how this " open source stuff " has helped deliver projects on time and under-budget ( if it has ) .
Keep reminding managers how well they 've done to save taxpayers ' money .
By helping to change attitudes of management and raising the visibility of OSS to other stakeholders , you 're making it easier for the next project for which OSS could be considered.Always remember though that the business case trumps all .
Just make sure that your business case includes all the relevant factors ( TCO , maintainability , flexibility , ... ) in which OSS often shines .
If your business case for OSS does n't stack up for a particular project - then do n't push it .
You are an advocate for doing your own job for your own company the best way possible - this may often mean using OSS .
You are ( most probably ) NOT paid to be an OSS zealot or fanboi .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The best thing you can do is internal advocacy.
Keep reminding people how this "open source stuff" has helped deliver projects on time and under-budget (if it has).
Keep reminding managers how well they've done to save taxpayers' money.
By helping to change attitudes of management and raising the visibility of OSS to other stakeholders, you're making it easier for the next project for which OSS could be considered.Always remember though that the business case trumps all.
Just make sure that your business case includes all the relevant factors (TCO, maintainability, flexibility, ...) in which OSS often shines.
If your business case for OSS doesn't stack up for a particular project - then don't push it.
You are an advocate for doing your own job for your own company the best way possible - this may often mean using OSS.
You are (most probably) NOT paid to be an OSS zealot or fanboi.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530810</id>
	<title>Re:"Contributing" is impossible</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261484820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>People pay me for useful services I do for them, and I pay people for useful services they do for me. That ad guy is useful for someone, useful for society? Society doesn't <b>want</b> anything, it's an anthromorphic combination of everyone else's wants. You can make some measure of efficiency but if you really want that, you can start by getting rid of everyone that lives off benefits first. That should clear up a couple billion carbon footprints. Interest on a portfolio is not for doing nothing, it's a loan of money is much the same way as if I loaned you my car. The only person who doesn't see that is someone who think he's entitled to borrow my car for free.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People pay me for useful services I do for them , and I pay people for useful services they do for me .
That ad guy is useful for someone , useful for society ?
Society does n't want anything , it 's an anthromorphic combination of everyone else 's wants .
You can make some measure of efficiency but if you really want that , you can start by getting rid of everyone that lives off benefits first .
That should clear up a couple billion carbon footprints .
Interest on a portfolio is not for doing nothing , it 's a loan of money is much the same way as if I loaned you my car .
The only person who does n't see that is someone who think he 's entitled to borrow my car for free .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People pay me for useful services I do for them, and I pay people for useful services they do for me.
That ad guy is useful for someone, useful for society?
Society doesn't want anything, it's an anthromorphic combination of everyone else's wants.
You can make some measure of efficiency but if you really want that, you can start by getting rid of everyone that lives off benefits first.
That should clear up a couple billion carbon footprints.
Interest on a portfolio is not for doing nothing, it's a loan of money is much the same way as if I loaned you my car.
The only person who doesn't see that is someone who think he's entitled to borrow my car for free.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530308</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30535426</id>
	<title>Re:Pay for your free licenses</title>
	<author>richlv</author>
	<datestamp>1259770800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>that's a great advice. another - order some new functionality or changes.</p><p>basically, a procurement to implement some feature you might be missing in the software. maybe improve some functionality.<br>it's a legitimate contract, and in the end you (and everybody else) gets some great feature.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>that 's a great advice .
another - order some new functionality or changes.basically , a procurement to implement some feature you might be missing in the software .
maybe improve some functionality.it 's a legitimate contract , and in the end you ( and everybody else ) gets some great feature .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>that's a great advice.
another - order some new functionality or changes.basically, a procurement to implement some feature you might be missing in the software.
maybe improve some functionality.it's a legitimate contract, and in the end you (and everybody else) gets some great feature.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30529950</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530528</id>
	<title>Re:Endorsement or Truth?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261483140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Technically, if it is true ("you" are selecting free/open source software to save tax dollars, and there is a statement someplace in the govt documents indicating that is part of the reason for the choices made) then endorsement or not, it's public information, and I do not see why stating it, if worded correctly (to properly indicate the reason such choices were made) would run afoul of anything.</p></div><p>It most definitely would run afoul, being public knowledge is one thing, advertising it on a site is considered endorsement and has all sorts of nasty political ramifications which is a major no no for just about any government. Governments are supposed to be completely vendor neutral and not a body that endorses ANY company or product. Personally I don't want my government using their funds to actively promote ANYONE, not even open source.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Technically , if it is true ( " you " are selecting free/open source software to save tax dollars , and there is a statement someplace in the govt documents indicating that is part of the reason for the choices made ) then endorsement or not , it 's public information , and I do not see why stating it , if worded correctly ( to properly indicate the reason such choices were made ) would run afoul of anything.It most definitely would run afoul , being public knowledge is one thing , advertising it on a site is considered endorsement and has all sorts of nasty political ramifications which is a major no no for just about any government .
Governments are supposed to be completely vendor neutral and not a body that endorses ANY company or product .
Personally I do n't want my government using their funds to actively promote ANYONE , not even open source .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Technically, if it is true ("you" are selecting free/open source software to save tax dollars, and there is a statement someplace in the govt documents indicating that is part of the reason for the choices made) then endorsement or not, it's public information, and I do not see why stating it, if worded correctly (to properly indicate the reason such choices were made) would run afoul of anything.It most definitely would run afoul, being public knowledge is one thing, advertising it on a site is considered endorsement and has all sorts of nasty political ramifications which is a major no no for just about any government.
Governments are supposed to be completely vendor neutral and not a body that endorses ANY company or product.
Personally I don't want my government using their funds to actively promote ANYONE, not even open source.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530100</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531836</id>
	<title>Re:You're doing it wrong.</title>
	<author>newhoggy</author>
	<datestamp>1261493580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>As a public servant, your responsibility is to the taxpayers.</p></div><p>Don't you meant to citizens, or to voters?  If a public servant's responsibility is to tax payers, your voting power would have been proportional to the amount of tax you pay.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a public servant , your responsibility is to the taxpayers.Do n't you meant to citizens , or to voters ?
If a public servant 's responsibility is to tax payers , your voting power would have been proportional to the amount of tax you pay .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a public servant, your responsibility is to the taxpayers.Don't you meant to citizens, or to voters?
If a public servant's responsibility is to tax payers, your voting power would have been proportional to the amount of tax you pay.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530132</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531154</id>
	<title>Re:Some ideas</title>
	<author>anomalous cohort</author>
	<datestamp>1261487100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I vote for <b>suggest new features and options</b>. We are <a href="http://kato-agency.blogspot.com/2009/12/kato-redesign.html" title="blogspot.com">proposing a redesign</a> [blogspot.com] to an open source project called <a href="http://kato.sourceforge.net/" title="sourceforge.net">KATO</a> [sourceforge.net] (mainstreaming software agents) where we have made available a <a href="http://www.dynamicalsoftware.com/kato/framework/redesign" title="dynamicalsoftware.com">discussion area</a> [dynamicalsoftware.com] and <a href="http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/S8BR3NX" title="surveymonkey.com">survey</a> [surveymonkey.com] for soliciting feedback and ideas on the redesign. You can make a difference there on that project in only 5 minutes.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I vote for suggest new features and options .
We are proposing a redesign [ blogspot.com ] to an open source project called KATO [ sourceforge.net ] ( mainstreaming software agents ) where we have made available a discussion area [ dynamicalsoftware.com ] and survey [ surveymonkey.com ] for soliciting feedback and ideas on the redesign .
You can make a difference there on that project in only 5 minutes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I vote for suggest new features and options.
We are proposing a redesign [blogspot.com] to an open source project called KATO [sourceforge.net] (mainstreaming software agents) where we have made available a discussion area [dynamicalsoftware.com] and survey [surveymonkey.com] for soliciting feedback and ideas on the redesign.
You can make a difference there on that project in only 5 minutes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530316</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30534282</id>
	<title>Re:"Contributing" is impossible</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259762040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I guess you don't want Defence, Police, Courts, Roads, Sewers<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I guess you do n't want Defence , Police , Courts , Roads , Sewers .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I guess you don't want Defence, Police, Courts, Roads, Sewers ...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530810</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530366</id>
	<title>Re:Endorsement or Truth?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261482420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was considering the same. Ain't one of the big things this administration allegedly rides on is open, accessable and transparent government? So it's not an endorsement. It's informing the public! Informing them of what their public servants use to fulfill their needs, informing them of how their tax money is spent (or rather, that it's not).</p><p>You're not saying "we use X and it's great!", you just say "we use X". I cannot see the endorsement in this. It is information, nothing else. It's the transparent government that is so popular now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was considering the same .
Ai n't one of the big things this administration allegedly rides on is open , accessable and transparent government ?
So it 's not an endorsement .
It 's informing the public !
Informing them of what their public servants use to fulfill their needs , informing them of how their tax money is spent ( or rather , that it 's not ) .You 're not saying " we use X and it 's great !
" , you just say " we use X " .
I can not see the endorsement in this .
It is information , nothing else .
It 's the transparent government that is so popular now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was considering the same.
Ain't one of the big things this administration allegedly rides on is open, accessable and transparent government?
So it's not an endorsement.
It's informing the public!
Informing them of what their public servants use to fulfill their needs, informing them of how their tax money is spent (or rather, that it's not).You're not saying "we use X and it's great!
", you just say "we use X".
I cannot see the endorsement in this.
It is information, nothing else.
It's the transparent government that is so popular now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530100</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30535492</id>
	<title>Re:Speak at a conference</title>
	<author>plcurechax</author>
	<datestamp>1259771220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Talk about how open source has saved you money, eliminated licensing headaches, etc etc.</i></p><p>For my employer, the time and effort we save by not having to maintain and audit licenses, yet stay legal, is far more valuable than the license fees savings by using Open Source.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Talk about how open source has saved you money , eliminated licensing headaches , etc etc.For my employer , the time and effort we save by not having to maintain and audit licenses , yet stay legal , is far more valuable than the license fees savings by using Open Source .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Talk about how open source has saved you money, eliminated licensing headaches, etc etc.For my employer, the time and effort we save by not having to maintain and audit licenses, yet stay legal, is far more valuable than the license fees savings by using Open Source.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530452</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531576</id>
	<title>"Forcibly"?</title>
	<author>EWAdams</author>
	<datestamp>1261491000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some states are so well-endowed that they don't need to take any money from anyone, forcibly or otherwise.</p><p>If you don't like the taxes your democratically-elected representatives have elected to collect, you should move to one of them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some states are so well-endowed that they do n't need to take any money from anyone , forcibly or otherwise.If you do n't like the taxes your democratically-elected representatives have elected to collect , you should move to one of them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some states are so well-endowed that they don't need to take any money from anyone, forcibly or otherwise.If you don't like the taxes your democratically-elected representatives have elected to collect, you should move to one of them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531644</id>
	<title>Re:You're doing it wrong.</title>
	<author>rnturn</author>
	<datestamp>1261491540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yeah.  Speaking of wasting the taxpayers' money: what about all those NTP servers that are being operated by state Universities?  I need to change all those "server" records in my network's NTP setup <i>immediately</i>.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah .
Speaking of wasting the taxpayers ' money : what about all those NTP servers that are being operated by state Universities ?
I need to change all those " server " records in my network 's NTP setup immediately .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah.
Speaking of wasting the taxpayers' money: what about all those NTP servers that are being operated by state Universities?
I need to change all those "server" records in my network's NTP setup immediately.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531062</id>
	<title>Join A Local LUG</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261486440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Individually join a local Linux User Group. You will discover ample opportunities over time to contribute.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Individually join a local Linux User Group .
You will discover ample opportunities over time to contribute .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Individually join a local Linux User Group.
You will discover ample opportunities over time to contribute.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30532398</id>
	<title>Re:Pay for your free licenses</title>
	<author>Herby Sagues</author>
	<datestamp>1261500840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>So the question is what ways you could waste the taxpayer's money to support a personal crusade?

I suggest that you send threatening letters to other department's managers promising something bad if they don't switch to Linux. Or you can give away office supplies to Red Hat employees. Or something along the lines that's equally immoral, but that seems to be well aligned to your way of seeing the public administration.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So the question is what ways you could waste the taxpayer 's money to support a personal crusade ?
I suggest that you send threatening letters to other department 's managers promising something bad if they do n't switch to Linux .
Or you can give away office supplies to Red Hat employees .
Or something along the lines that 's equally immoral , but that seems to be well aligned to your way of seeing the public administration .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So the question is what ways you could waste the taxpayer's money to support a personal crusade?
I suggest that you send threatening letters to other department's managers promising something bad if they don't switch to Linux.
Or you can give away office supplies to Red Hat employees.
Or something along the lines that's equally immoral, but that seems to be well aligned to your way of seeing the public administration.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30529950</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530444</id>
	<title>Re:Pay for your free licenses</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261482720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You are still saving a lot of money compared to buying a proprietary solution...</p></div><p>Except when you're not.</p><p>I'm looking at you, RedHat and SUSE.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You are still saving a lot of money compared to buying a proprietary solution...Except when you 're not.I 'm looking at you , RedHat and SUSE .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are still saving a lot of money compared to buying a proprietary solution...Except when you're not.I'm looking at you, RedHat and SUSE.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30529950</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531072</id>
	<title>Re:"Contributing" is impossible</title>
	<author>Tubal-Cain</author>
	<datestamp>1261486560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This is an artificial system of laws and rules...</p></div><p>Is that a bad thing? Pretty much any rule besides "survival of the fittest" could be called an "artificial" rule.</p><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>...and it allows some to take the money from other persons without giving them anything useful in return.</p></div><p>In what way? Who, in your examples, didn't provide anything useful?
</p><ul>
<li>Ideally, the advertiser informs the customer about the existence of a potentially superior products, and so both company and consumer win.</li><li>The arms manufacturers convert raw materials and labor into a product, just like any company not in the service industry. It's not like demand for their product will ever go away.</li><li>The people with portfolios basically won a giant gamble. Someone risked a significant amount of money betting that a company would succeed (and in the case of start-ups, improved the chances of it happening). Those that lost went back to a cubicle, those that won now enjoy the rewards of the risk they took. Win big or often enough, and they can start making similar gambles without risking their shirt. It's about as unfair as visiting a casino without the "house" and without rules against card counting. If your opponents can count cards and you can't, don't expect to win very often.</li></ul></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is an artificial system of laws and rules...Is that a bad thing ?
Pretty much any rule besides " survival of the fittest " could be called an " artificial " rule .
...and it allows some to take the money from other persons without giving them anything useful in return.In what way ?
Who , in your examples , did n't provide anything useful ?
Ideally , the advertiser informs the customer about the existence of a potentially superior products , and so both company and consumer win.The arms manufacturers convert raw materials and labor into a product , just like any company not in the service industry .
It 's not like demand for their product will ever go away.The people with portfolios basically won a giant gamble .
Someone risked a significant amount of money betting that a company would succeed ( and in the case of start-ups , improved the chances of it happening ) .
Those that lost went back to a cubicle , those that won now enjoy the rewards of the risk they took .
Win big or often enough , and they can start making similar gambles without risking their shirt .
It 's about as unfair as visiting a casino without the " house " and without rules against card counting .
If your opponents can count cards and you ca n't , do n't expect to win very often .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is an artificial system of laws and rules...Is that a bad thing?
Pretty much any rule besides "survival of the fittest" could be called an "artificial" rule.
...and it allows some to take the money from other persons without giving them anything useful in return.In what way?
Who, in your examples, didn't provide anything useful?
Ideally, the advertiser informs the customer about the existence of a potentially superior products, and so both company and consumer win.The arms manufacturers convert raw materials and labor into a product, just like any company not in the service industry.
It's not like demand for their product will ever go away.The people with portfolios basically won a giant gamble.
Someone risked a significant amount of money betting that a company would succeed (and in the case of start-ups, improved the chances of it happening).
Those that lost went back to a cubicle, those that won now enjoy the rewards of the risk they took.
Win big or often enough, and they can start making similar gambles without risking their shirt.
It's about as unfair as visiting a casino without the "house" and without rules against card counting.
If your opponents can count cards and you can't, don't expect to win very often.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530308</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530276</id>
	<title>Re:You're doing it wrong.</title>
	<author>Lord Kano</author>
	<datestamp>1261482000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>First, if your manager says don't put up a web page, then don't. End of discussion.</i></p><p>Not quite. If you believe that your manager is wrong, go to his boss.</p><p>LK</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First , if your manager says do n't put up a web page , then do n't .
End of discussion.Not quite .
If you believe that your manager is wrong , go to his boss.LK</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First, if your manager says don't put up a web page, then don't.
End of discussion.Not quite.
If you believe that your manager is wrong, go to his boss.LK</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30529984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530308</id>
	<title>Re:"Contributing" is impossible</title>
	<author>dermond</author>
	<datestamp>1261482180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> Government operates by forcibly taking money from one person and giving it to another person or organization</p></div></blockquote><p>where of course you assume that the person who had the money in the first place really deserved to have it. but a lot of persons today earn money without doing any useful work (e.g. they work for advertisment - creating artificial needs) or by doing harmful work (creating weapons, destroying the environment, etc...) or doing no work at all (just cashing in on their portfolio). the reason why some can earn a lot of money for nothing is in our system of society. this is an artificial system of laws and rules and it allows some to take the money from other persons without giving them anything useful in return.</p><p>so taking the money from people that have that money because of some artificial rules by an other rule (the tax system) is just one way to try to compensate the many faults of the capitalist system.....</p><p>



mond</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Government operates by forcibly taking money from one person and giving it to another person or organizationwhere of course you assume that the person who had the money in the first place really deserved to have it .
but a lot of persons today earn money without doing any useful work ( e.g .
they work for advertisment - creating artificial needs ) or by doing harmful work ( creating weapons , destroying the environment , etc... ) or doing no work at all ( just cashing in on their portfolio ) .
the reason why some can earn a lot of money for nothing is in our system of society .
this is an artificial system of laws and rules and it allows some to take the money from other persons without giving them anything useful in return.so taking the money from people that have that money because of some artificial rules by an other rule ( the tax system ) is just one way to try to compensate the many faults of the capitalist system.... . mond</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Government operates by forcibly taking money from one person and giving it to another person or organizationwhere of course you assume that the person who had the money in the first place really deserved to have it.
but a lot of persons today earn money without doing any useful work (e.g.
they work for advertisment - creating artificial needs) or by doing harmful work (creating weapons, destroying the environment, etc...) or doing no work at all (just cashing in on their portfolio).
the reason why some can earn a lot of money for nothing is in our system of society.
this is an artificial system of laws and rules and it allows some to take the money from other persons without giving them anything useful in return.so taking the money from people that have that money because of some artificial rules by an other rule (the tax system) is just one way to try to compensate the many faults of the capitalist system.....



mond
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530530</id>
	<title>Re:You're doing it wrong.</title>
	<author>gbarules2999</author>
	<datestamp>1261483140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't see him challenging his boss anywhere - he's just relaying the story so he can say what did and did not work in the past. I think you're jumping to assumptions here.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't see him challenging his boss anywhere - he 's just relaying the story so he can say what did and did not work in the past .
I think you 're jumping to assumptions here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't see him challenging his boss anywhere - he's just relaying the story so he can say what did and did not work in the past.
I think you're jumping to assumptions here.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30529984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530286</id>
	<title>Re:You're doing it wrong.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261482060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Second... I don't want my tax dollars being used for a mirror server. Plenty of other people do that already, and even if they didn't, we have bittorrent.</p></div></blockquote><p>Many of the mirros that download from are hosted by state universities, and guess who funds those.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Second... I do n't want my tax dollars being used for a mirror server .
Plenty of other people do that already , and even if they did n't , we have bittorrent.Many of the mirros that download from are hosted by state universities , and guess who funds those .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Second... I don't want my tax dollars being used for a mirror server.
Plenty of other people do that already, and even if they didn't, we have bittorrent.Many of the mirros that download from are hosted by state universities, and guess who funds those.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30529984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531674</id>
	<title>Re:"Contributing" is impossible</title>
	<author>terjeber</author>
	<datestamp>1261491780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>just one way to try to compensate the many faults of the capitalist system</p></div><p>Says the one who just proved that he has no understanding of "the capitalist system" at all. Sorry dude, you are wrong, and you appear to be of limited intellect. I have given you as much documentation on that as you have given on your moronic "<i>without doing any useful work</i>". It is sadly not too rare to read moronic idiocy like that statement. Our education system, world wide, is in serious trouble.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>just one way to try to compensate the many faults of the capitalist systemSays the one who just proved that he has no understanding of " the capitalist system " at all .
Sorry dude , you are wrong , and you appear to be of limited intellect .
I have given you as much documentation on that as you have given on your moronic " without doing any useful work " .
It is sadly not too rare to read moronic idiocy like that statement .
Our education system , world wide , is in serious trouble .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>just one way to try to compensate the many faults of the capitalist systemSays the one who just proved that he has no understanding of "the capitalist system" at all.
Sorry dude, you are wrong, and you appear to be of limited intellect.
I have given you as much documentation on that as you have given on your moronic "without doing any useful work".
It is sadly not too rare to read moronic idiocy like that statement.
Our education system, world wide, is in serious trouble.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530308</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531012</id>
	<title>Re:Get others in Gov to use it</title>
	<author>djKing</author>
	<datestamp>1261486080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Parent is on the right track.  Could you form a Gov FOSS User Group?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Parent is on the right track .
Could you form a Gov FOSS User Group ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Parent is on the right track.
Could you form a Gov FOSS User Group?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530000</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530318</id>
	<title>do what I do</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261482180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I support open source software by making fun of various open source packages on slashdot.  That encourages the developers to create better software.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I support open source software by making fun of various open source packages on slashdot .
That encourages the developers to create better software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I support open source software by making fun of various open source packages on slashdot.
That encourages the developers to create better software.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30533184</id>
	<title>Re:Some ideas</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261511460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Great list!<br>How about one more?<br>Create and update Wikipedia articles</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Great list ! How about one more ? Create and update Wikipedia articles</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Great list!How about one more?Create and update Wikipedia articles</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530316</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530620</id>
	<title>Re:"Contributing" is impossible</title>
	<author>Kalriath</author>
	<datestamp>1261483680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Good luck avoiding roads and footpaths.  And don't you dare ever turn up to a hospital without insurance, or call the police or fire department.  After all, those aren't things government should be doing, should it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Good luck avoiding roads and footpaths .
And do n't you dare ever turn up to a hospital without insurance , or call the police or fire department .
After all , those are n't things government should be doing , should it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good luck avoiding roads and footpaths.
And don't you dare ever turn up to a hospital without insurance, or call the police or fire department.
After all, those aren't things government should be doing, should it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30534820</id>
	<title>Documentation, documentation, documentation</title>
	<author>mopflite</author>
	<datestamp>1259767080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>FOSS needs good documentation at this point more than anything else.  There are dozens of superb FOSS applications out there which are almost unusable by all but experienced, technically knowledgeable users due to impenetrable and/or overly sparse documentation.  New users, particularly new users migrating from Microsoft Windows, have neither the time nor motivation to learn the somewhat arcane terminology of man pages, nor to view one application's man page, then spend a day or so going through the same process in respect of another application that the first application's man page references (and so on, often ad infinitum).

Quality documentation written for non-technical users to be able to follow and understand is essential if FOSS is to make further inroads into the Microsoft installed base.  If you have technical authors, or ordinary users who are keen on and understand FOSS and have above average documentation authorship skills and a few hours to spare, I am sure that many FOSS projects would be delighted to hear from you.</htmltext>
<tokenext>FOSS needs good documentation at this point more than anything else .
There are dozens of superb FOSS applications out there which are almost unusable by all but experienced , technically knowledgeable users due to impenetrable and/or overly sparse documentation .
New users , particularly new users migrating from Microsoft Windows , have neither the time nor motivation to learn the somewhat arcane terminology of man pages , nor to view one application 's man page , then spend a day or so going through the same process in respect of another application that the first application 's man page references ( and so on , often ad infinitum ) .
Quality documentation written for non-technical users to be able to follow and understand is essential if FOSS is to make further inroads into the Microsoft installed base .
If you have technical authors , or ordinary users who are keen on and understand FOSS and have above average documentation authorship skills and a few hours to spare , I am sure that many FOSS projects would be delighted to hear from you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FOSS needs good documentation at this point more than anything else.
There are dozens of superb FOSS applications out there which are almost unusable by all but experienced, technically knowledgeable users due to impenetrable and/or overly sparse documentation.
New users, particularly new users migrating from Microsoft Windows, have neither the time nor motivation to learn the somewhat arcane terminology of man pages, nor to view one application's man page, then spend a day or so going through the same process in respect of another application that the first application's man page references (and so on, often ad infinitum).
Quality documentation written for non-technical users to be able to follow and understand is essential if FOSS is to make further inroads into the Microsoft installed base.
If you have technical authors, or ordinary users who are keen on and understand FOSS and have above average documentation authorship skills and a few hours to spare, I am sure that many FOSS projects would be delighted to hear from you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531366</id>
	<title>How about a Pat On The Back?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261488900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You deserve one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You deserve one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You deserve one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530390</id>
	<title>Using is helping</title>
	<author>bornefearless</author>
	<datestamp>1261482540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Just by the act of using OSS in government operations is helpful to the community in ways that are indirect but powerful. First, you're helping to preserve the open nature of the government through using technology that can be reviewed on demand by anyone, without having to get permission from a corporation with private interests. Second, by using OSS, you are saving money for your taxpayers by not exhorbitantly paying for upgrades and fixes to remain current. Third, you are representing a model of successful OSS deployment to other government agencies, which may lead to those agencies to switch to OSS in tight budget conditions. Through a long-term leaching effect, as more and more agencies use OSS, more money is freed up for other activities, including social services and projects that affect developers and the larger population alike, and technology grants may be made available over the long term that will benefit OSS projects. These arguments have been made before, time and time again, but reminders serve a purpose to express gratis for past efforts, and reinforce the drive to continue producing great works.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just by the act of using OSS in government operations is helpful to the community in ways that are indirect but powerful .
First , you 're helping to preserve the open nature of the government through using technology that can be reviewed on demand by anyone , without having to get permission from a corporation with private interests .
Second , by using OSS , you are saving money for your taxpayers by not exhorbitantly paying for upgrades and fixes to remain current .
Third , you are representing a model of successful OSS deployment to other government agencies , which may lead to those agencies to switch to OSS in tight budget conditions .
Through a long-term leaching effect , as more and more agencies use OSS , more money is freed up for other activities , including social services and projects that affect developers and the larger population alike , and technology grants may be made available over the long term that will benefit OSS projects .
These arguments have been made before , time and time again , but reminders serve a purpose to express gratis for past efforts , and reinforce the drive to continue producing great works .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just by the act of using OSS in government operations is helpful to the community in ways that are indirect but powerful.
First, you're helping to preserve the open nature of the government through using technology that can be reviewed on demand by anyone, without having to get permission from a corporation with private interests.
Second, by using OSS, you are saving money for your taxpayers by not exhorbitantly paying for upgrades and fixes to remain current.
Third, you are representing a model of successful OSS deployment to other government agencies, which may lead to those agencies to switch to OSS in tight budget conditions.
Through a long-term leaching effect, as more and more agencies use OSS, more money is freed up for other activities, including social services and projects that affect developers and the larger population alike, and technology grants may be made available over the long term that will benefit OSS projects.
These arguments have been made before, time and time again, but reminders serve a purpose to express gratis for past efforts, and reinforce the drive to continue producing great works.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531068</id>
	<title>Allow bids from open source supporters/companies</title>
	<author>blanks</author>
	<datestamp>1261486560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>From what I know from firends who have worked with state/federal agencies most work done out of the agency requires them to accept bids for work.  Meaning a number of companies or people bid on the projects to get this work.   Its done this way so there can (nor should there be) any endorcement.<br><br>When projects come up conact known open source groups, companies etc that there are bids for the available work.  Yes you wont be contributing directly to the projects, but you could get the developers making cash with allows them to offer more to the projects they are working on.</htmltext>
<tokenext>From what I know from firends who have worked with state/federal agencies most work done out of the agency requires them to accept bids for work .
Meaning a number of companies or people bid on the projects to get this work .
Its done this way so there can ( nor should there be ) any endorcement.When projects come up conact known open source groups , companies etc that there are bids for the available work .
Yes you wont be contributing directly to the projects , but you could get the developers making cash with allows them to offer more to the projects they are working on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From what I know from firends who have worked with state/federal agencies most work done out of the agency requires them to accept bids for work.
Meaning a number of companies or people bid on the projects to get this work.
Its done this way so there can (nor should there be) any endorcement.When projects come up conact known open source groups, companies etc that there are bids for the available work.
Yes you wont be contributing directly to the projects, but you could get the developers making cash with allows them to offer more to the projects they are working on.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531748</id>
	<title>Save money in other ways</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261492560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you're interested in software freedom then I will assume you're also interested in a much more important freedom: the freedom of people. The main way to protect our liberties in this day and age is to advocate for a much smaller government. You probably won't like hearing this, but the chances are that the government department you work for should not exist. Unless is makes more money than it consumes, then it is funded by forced wealth redistribution.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're interested in software freedom then I will assume you 're also interested in a much more important freedom : the freedom of people .
The main way to protect our liberties in this day and age is to advocate for a much smaller government .
You probably wo n't like hearing this , but the chances are that the government department you work for should not exist .
Unless is makes more money than it consumes , then it is funded by forced wealth redistribution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're interested in software freedom then I will assume you're also interested in a much more important freedom: the freedom of people.
The main way to protect our liberties in this day and age is to advocate for a much smaller government.
You probably won't like hearing this, but the chances are that the government department you work for should not exist.
Unless is makes more money than it consumes, then it is funded by forced wealth redistribution.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30534864</id>
	<title>Bring OSS to Libraries</title>
	<author>EgNagRah</author>
	<datestamp>1259767320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Get a group together and host classes for creativity with free computer programing in the many libraries in nearly every community...if you have that much moneys...but maybe it wouldn't cost much?  I don't see too much innovative changing going on in the world.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Get a group together and host classes for creativity with free computer programing in the many libraries in nearly every community...if you have that much moneys...but maybe it would n't cost much ?
I do n't see too much innovative changing going on in the world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get a group together and host classes for creativity with free computer programing in the many libraries in nearly every community...if you have that much moneys...but maybe it wouldn't cost much?
I don't see too much innovative changing going on in the world.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531540</id>
	<title>i hear open source fanbois like it in the ass</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261490580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>So maybe you can take a few in the rear for the team.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So maybe you can take a few in the rear for the team .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So maybe you can take a few in the rear for the team.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530618</id>
	<title>Software isn't just programming...</title>
	<author>jafo</author>
	<datestamp>1261483680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is a common mistake people make -- I can't program therefore I can't contribute to open source.<br><br>There are so many other things involved in getting software out: project management, graphic design, testing, training, documentation, advocacy, support, system administration, bug triage, design, architecture, translation (from *AND TO* your language), releases, etc...<br><br>Surely there's something you can do to help...<br><br>Pick some of your favorite projects, pick what you like to do that could help them, and look for opportunities to help out.  Chances are it will be very well received.<br><br>Sean</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a common mistake people make -- I ca n't program therefore I ca n't contribute to open source.There are so many other things involved in getting software out : project management , graphic design , testing , training , documentation , advocacy , support , system administration , bug triage , design , architecture , translation ( from * AND TO * your language ) , releases , etc...Surely there 's something you can do to help...Pick some of your favorite projects , pick what you like to do that could help them , and look for opportunities to help out .
Chances are it will be very well received.Sean</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a common mistake people make -- I can't program therefore I can't contribute to open source.There are so many other things involved in getting software out: project management, graphic design, testing, training, documentation, advocacy, support, system administration, bug triage, design, architecture, translation (from *AND TO* your language), releases, etc...Surely there's something you can do to help...Pick some of your favorite projects, pick what you like to do that could help them, and look for opportunities to help out.
Chances are it will be very well received.Sean</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30533540</id>
	<title>Re:Some ideas</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259746380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here's another one that seems easy:<br>Let it be known that such and such open source file formats are acceptable and supported when submitting various work or documents to your gov't agency.</p><p>It wouldn't be the most obvious method of endorsement, but if people knew that you'd happily work with those filetypes - those paying attention would get a nice clue that you're using or are friendly to open source. Also some curious folks would wonder what those are, do some research, and perhaps learn about the software used, and then possibly become users of that software themselves.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's another one that seems easy : Let it be known that such and such open source file formats are acceptable and supported when submitting various work or documents to your gov't agency.It would n't be the most obvious method of endorsement , but if people knew that you 'd happily work with those filetypes - those paying attention would get a nice clue that you 're using or are friendly to open source .
Also some curious folks would wonder what those are , do some research , and perhaps learn about the software used , and then possibly become users of that software themselves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's another one that seems easy:Let it be known that such and such open source file formats are acceptable and supported when submitting various work or documents to your gov't agency.It wouldn't be the most obvious method of endorsement, but if people knew that you'd happily work with those filetypes - those paying attention would get a nice clue that you're using or are friendly to open source.
Also some curious folks would wonder what those are, do some research, and perhaps learn about the software used, and then possibly become users of that software themselves.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30530316</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30533166</id>
	<title>Here's how..</title>
	<author>HellYeahAutomaton</author>
	<datestamp>1261511220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Expose Open Source for the charity work that it really is.</p><p>You can convince your state to allow open source contributors to get tax deductions based on their hourly contributions at their usual rate of pay, up to \%10 of their annual income.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Expose Open Source for the charity work that it really is.You can convince your state to allow open source contributors to get tax deductions based on their hourly contributions at their usual rate of pay , up to \ % 10 of their annual income .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Expose Open Source for the charity work that it really is.You can convince your state to allow open source contributors to get tax deductions based on their hourly contributions at their usual rate of pay, up to \%10 of their annual income.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30529950</id>
	<title>Pay for your free licenses</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261480500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Buy support. Pay for your Linux licenses. Just because it's open source doesn't mean that you should pay $0.</p><p>By buying from a legitimate open source company, you help reinforce the open source eco-system.</p><p>And it's all legitimate: it's not a donation, so your boss shouldn't object. You are still saving a lot of money compared to buying a proprietary solution, but you are helping people who code full-time sustain themselves. Let's face it, developers are the critical resource for most open source projects.</p><p>PS: <a href="http://fairsoftware.net/publicProjects" title="fairsoftware.net">some cool startups are looking for extra developers/founders</a> [fairsoftware.net]: help people go solar, build a better bug collector tool, or help build a music community that supports its bands.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Buy support .
Pay for your Linux licenses .
Just because it 's open source does n't mean that you should pay $ 0.By buying from a legitimate open source company , you help reinforce the open source eco-system.And it 's all legitimate : it 's not a donation , so your boss should n't object .
You are still saving a lot of money compared to buying a proprietary solution , but you are helping people who code full-time sustain themselves .
Let 's face it , developers are the critical resource for most open source projects.PS : some cool startups are looking for extra developers/founders [ fairsoftware.net ] : help people go solar , build a better bug collector tool , or help build a music community that supports its bands .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Buy support.
Pay for your Linux licenses.
Just because it's open source doesn't mean that you should pay $0.By buying from a legitimate open source company, you help reinforce the open source eco-system.And it's all legitimate: it's not a donation, so your boss shouldn't object.
You are still saving a lot of money compared to buying a proprietary solution, but you are helping people who code full-time sustain themselves.
Let's face it, developers are the critical resource for most open source projects.PS: some cool startups are looking for extra developers/founders [fairsoftware.net]: help people go solar, build a better bug collector tool, or help build a music community that supports its bands.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_22_1738210.30531900</id>
	<title>Money</title>
	<author>zogger</author>
	<datestamp>1261494300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your state obviously doesn't have any problem paying cash money for the closed source software you use, the precedent is set, so you *could* pay at least <i>some</i> directly to the open source/free developers for customization, bug fixing and consultation services, for the stuff you get from them.</p><p>
&nbsp; Just because it is offered free as in beer, doesn't mean you have to be a complete cheapskate about it, you'd still be saving a lot over closed source, always must pay the big bucks software, so I can't see your bosses beef here. You don't donate, you *contract for services*. In your entire budget, they couldn't come up with a grand or two to offer for those contracted services, directly to the devs? I mean, hire them, real part time. Figure out how much using the FOSS stuff is saving you, a ballpark, and even 5 or 10\% there would be a lot more than zero to those devs, plus get their stuff working a lot better for you (and everyone else).</p><p>Cash money is a spiffy motivator it is</p><p>With that side..side issue..there are a thousand linux distros out there, but I have yet to see the one I want. I haven't seen a really *fair* one yet.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; I would like a once a year to every three years release distro, with a smallish but reasonable amount of apps, (as in, please not 15 media players, like pick one and stick to it, etc) and pay for that sucker, so it *works*. Cash money is a good inducement for bug fixes over yet more eyecandy, for human non nerd readable actually helpful documentation over cryptic man pages first written in punch card days and barely updated since then. And etc. Take it professional in other words.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Not a huge sum, but above free like it is now and below what microsoft and apple charge, call it maybe 50 bucks per release, and no way every six months, that just leads to perpetual betaware, stuff breaks as much as it gets enhanced every time that way. The distro maintainers/releasers would do profit sharing with the devs for the included apps, say half and half.</p><p>
&nbsp; This gets rid of the lame "micropayments" problem, so that people could help support that which they really like and use.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your state obviously does n't have any problem paying cash money for the closed source software you use , the precedent is set , so you * could * pay at least some directly to the open source/free developers for customization , bug fixing and consultation services , for the stuff you get from them .
  Just because it is offered free as in beer , does n't mean you have to be a complete cheapskate about it , you 'd still be saving a lot over closed source , always must pay the big bucks software , so I ca n't see your bosses beef here .
You do n't donate , you * contract for services * .
In your entire budget , they could n't come up with a grand or two to offer for those contracted services , directly to the devs ?
I mean , hire them , real part time .
Figure out how much using the FOSS stuff is saving you , a ballpark , and even 5 or 10 \ % there would be a lot more than zero to those devs , plus get their stuff working a lot better for you ( and everyone else ) .Cash money is a spiffy motivator it isWith that side..side issue..there are a thousand linux distros out there , but I have yet to see the one I want .
I have n't seen a really * fair * one yet .
    I would like a once a year to every three years release distro , with a smallish but reasonable amount of apps , ( as in , please not 15 media players , like pick one and stick to it , etc ) and pay for that sucker , so it * works * .
Cash money is a good inducement for bug fixes over yet more eyecandy , for human non nerd readable actually helpful documentation over cryptic man pages first written in punch card days and barely updated since then .
And etc .
Take it professional in other words .
    Not a huge sum , but above free like it is now and below what microsoft and apple charge , call it maybe 50 bucks per release , and no way every six months , that just leads to perpetual betaware , stuff breaks as much as it gets enhanced every time that way .
The distro maintainers/releasers would do profit sharing with the devs for the included apps , say half and half .
  This gets rid of the lame " micropayments " problem , so that people could help support that which they really like and use .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your state obviously doesn't have any problem paying cash money for the closed source software you use, the precedent is set, so you *could* pay at least some directly to the open source/free developers for customization, bug fixing and consultation services, for the stuff you get from them.
  Just because it is offered free as in beer, doesn't mean you have to be a complete cheapskate about it, you'd still be saving a lot over closed source, always must pay the big bucks software, so I can't see your bosses beef here.
You don't donate, you *contract for services*.
In your entire budget, they couldn't come up with a grand or two to offer for those contracted services, directly to the devs?
I mean, hire them, real part time.
Figure out how much using the FOSS stuff is saving you, a ballpark, and even 5 or 10\% there would be a lot more than zero to those devs, plus get their stuff working a lot better for you (and everyone else).Cash money is a spiffy motivator it isWith that side..side issue..there are a thousand linux distros out there, but I have yet to see the one I want.
I haven't seen a really *fair* one yet.
    I would like a once a year to every three years release distro, with a smallish but reasonable amount of apps, (as in, please not 15 media players, like pick one and stick to it, etc) and pay for that sucker, so it *works*.
Cash money is a good inducement for bug fixes over yet more eyecandy, for human non nerd readable actually helpful documentation over cryptic man pages first written in punch card days and barely updated since then.
And etc.
Take it professional in other words.
    Not a huge sum, but above free like it is now and below what microsoft and apple charge, call it maybe 50 bucks per release, and no way every six months, that just leads to perpetual betaware, stuff breaks as much as it gets enhanced every time that way.
The distro maintainers/releasers would do profit sharing with the devs for the included apps, say half and half.
  This gets rid of the lame "micropayments" problem, so that people could help support that which they really like and use.</sentencetext>
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