<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_12_17_2043254</id>
	<title>Not Enough Women In Computing, Or Too Many Men?</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1261040340000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>itwbennett writes <i>"Do geeks really 'drive girls out of computer science,' as the <a href="http://www.livescience.com/culture/091215-computer-science-girls.html">headline of a LiveScience article contends</a>? Blogger Cameron Laird doesn't think so. In fact, 'I don't think "gender issues in computing" is important enough to merit the attention it gets,' says Laird in a recent post. And maybe the problem isn't that there are too few women in computing, but that there are <a href="http://www.itworld.com/tech-amp-society/89611/not-enough-women-computing">too many men</a>. 'I'm waiting to read the headline: "Women too smart for careers with computers,"' says Laird, 'where another researcher concludes that only "boys" are stupid enough to go into a field that's globally-fungible, where entry-level salaries are declining, and it's common to think that staying up all night for a company-paid pizza is a good deal.'"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>itwbennett writes " Do geeks really 'drive girls out of computer science, ' as the headline of a LiveScience article contends ?
Blogger Cameron Laird does n't think so .
In fact , 'I do n't think " gender issues in computing " is important enough to merit the attention it gets, ' says Laird in a recent post .
And maybe the problem is n't that there are too few women in computing , but that there are too many men .
'I 'm waiting to read the headline : " Women too smart for careers with computers , " ' says Laird , 'where another researcher concludes that only " boys " are stupid enough to go into a field that 's globally-fungible , where entry-level salaries are declining , and it 's common to think that staying up all night for a company-paid pizza is a good deal .
' "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>itwbennett writes "Do geeks really 'drive girls out of computer science,' as the headline of a LiveScience article contends?
Blogger Cameron Laird doesn't think so.
In fact, 'I don't think "gender issues in computing" is important enough to merit the attention it gets,' says Laird in a recent post.
And maybe the problem isn't that there are too few women in computing, but that there are too many men.
'I'm waiting to read the headline: "Women too smart for careers with computers,"' says Laird, 'where another researcher concludes that only "boys" are stupid enough to go into a field that's globally-fungible, where entry-level salaries are declining, and it's common to think that staying up all night for a company-paid pizza is a good deal.
'"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481896</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the same.</title>
	<author>roju</author>
	<datestamp>1261057560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Except that what gave the States its huge (but diminishing) lead in science and tech was encouraging immigration. Closing the border is only going to cause all the smart people to aggregate elsewhere.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Except that what gave the States its huge ( but diminishing ) lead in science and tech was encouraging immigration .
Closing the border is only going to cause all the smart people to aggregate elsewhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except that what gave the States its huge (but diminishing) lead in science and tech was encouraging immigration.
Closing the border is only going to cause all the smart people to aggregate elsewhere.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480192</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479860</id>
	<title>Garbage women...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261047180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Telling women they're smart always gets me laid. They like to be flattered, especially about something they feel insecure about.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Telling women they 're smart always gets me laid .
They like to be flattered , especially about something they feel insecure about .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Telling women they're smart always gets me laid.
They like to be flattered, especially about something they feel insecure about.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479242</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480332</id>
	<title>Do't try to force people into jobs they won't like</title>
	<author>thetoadwarrior</author>
	<datestamp>1261049220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If more women wanted to be developers they could just start their own start-up, like many men have.
<br> <br>
Personally I'd prefer to date women that are geeky and by geeky I mean actually geeky not just that she wears a hello kitty t-shirt and black rimmed glasses.
<br> <br>
However, I found my options are to hold out for something like that and give up sex or compromise just hope she's not some needy woman that can't live with the fact I may want to do things on my own sometimes. Hell, even with sex, sometimes it's nice to go back to the basics and jerk off once in awhile.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If more women wanted to be developers they could just start their own start-up , like many men have .
Personally I 'd prefer to date women that are geeky and by geeky I mean actually geeky not just that she wears a hello kitty t-shirt and black rimmed glasses .
However , I found my options are to hold out for something like that and give up sex or compromise just hope she 's not some needy woman that ca n't live with the fact I may want to do things on my own sometimes .
Hell , even with sex , sometimes it 's nice to go back to the basics and jerk off once in awhile .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If more women wanted to be developers they could just start their own start-up, like many men have.
Personally I'd prefer to date women that are geeky and by geeky I mean actually geeky not just that she wears a hello kitty t-shirt and black rimmed glasses.
However, I found my options are to hold out for something like that and give up sex or compromise just hope she's not some needy woman that can't live with the fact I may want to do things on my own sometimes.
Hell, even with sex, sometimes it's nice to go back to the basics and jerk off once in awhile.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30484122</id>
	<title>Re:It's a matter of fun</title>
	<author>geminidomino</author>
	<datestamp>1261078020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Anecdotal, to be sure, but that's definitely where I got my start...</p><p>a quarter of a century ago... Excuse me...</p><p>*cries self to sleep*</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anecdotal , to be sure , but that 's definitely where I got my start...a quarter of a century ago... Excuse me... * cries self to sleep *</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anecdotal, to be sure, but that's definitely where I got my start...a quarter of a century ago... Excuse me...*cries self to sleep*</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479160</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481440</id>
	<title>Hrmm...</title>
	<author>Anachragnome</author>
	<datestamp>1261055280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Being a guy, I can safely say that there are not enough women, period.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Being a guy , I can safely say that there are not enough women , period .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Being a guy, I can safely say that there are not enough women, period.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30483842</id>
	<title>Neither.</title>
	<author>lsdi</author>
	<datestamp>1261073940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's just the way it is. Somehow, there are certain types of jobs that are more likelly to be filled with a specific gender. I beleive this is result of a extremely complex combination of education, genetics and culture.<br>

I'm a pilot. In this job being a women will make your life extremely easier. There is a consensus in the industry that women are better at managing aircrafts systems. In my own experience, I'm sure that is very true. But, I'm also sure women often don't like the job of flying airplanes around. It's just a job for them. Maybe that's the reason women's landings are rougher on passengers. Maybe that's why women will never do something out of the manual, because it's just a job, they aren't even thinking, they are just machines doing what they are supposed to do. When they have to make decisions not covered by a manual they always ask others to decide from them. Usually the manual is right, so... women are in fact better pilots.<br>

But if you do something because it's a job, someone else will do it for fun and much better than you.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's just the way it is .
Somehow , there are certain types of jobs that are more likelly to be filled with a specific gender .
I beleive this is result of a extremely complex combination of education , genetics and culture .
I 'm a pilot .
In this job being a women will make your life extremely easier .
There is a consensus in the industry that women are better at managing aircrafts systems .
In my own experience , I 'm sure that is very true .
But , I 'm also sure women often do n't like the job of flying airplanes around .
It 's just a job for them .
Maybe that 's the reason women 's landings are rougher on passengers .
Maybe that 's why women will never do something out of the manual , because it 's just a job , they are n't even thinking , they are just machines doing what they are supposed to do .
When they have to make decisions not covered by a manual they always ask others to decide from them .
Usually the manual is right , so... women are in fact better pilots .
But if you do something because it 's a job , someone else will do it for fun and much better than you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's just the way it is.
Somehow, there are certain types of jobs that are more likelly to be filled with a specific gender.
I beleive this is result of a extremely complex combination of education, genetics and culture.
I'm a pilot.
In this job being a women will make your life extremely easier.
There is a consensus in the industry that women are better at managing aircrafts systems.
In my own experience, I'm sure that is very true.
But, I'm also sure women often don't like the job of flying airplanes around.
It's just a job for them.
Maybe that's the reason women's landings are rougher on passengers.
Maybe that's why women will never do something out of the manual, because it's just a job, they aren't even thinking, they are just machines doing what they are supposed to do.
When they have to make decisions not covered by a manual they always ask others to decide from them.
Usually the manual is right, so... women are in fact better pilots.
But if you do something because it's a job, someone else will do it for fun and much better than you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480768</id>
	<title>academic article...</title>
	<author>reg106</author>
	<datestamp>1261051080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The article mentioned in <a href="http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/psp/97/6/1045/" title="apa.org" rel="nofollow"> Ambient belonging: How stereotypical cues impact gender participation in computer science.
Cheryan et al., Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. Vol 97(6), Dec 2009, 1045-1060.</a> [apa.org].  My institution apparently doesn't subscribe to this APA journal.  Here is the <a href="http://faculty.washington.edu/scheryan/index.html" title="washington.edu" rel="nofollow">lead author's website</a> [washington.edu].  She posts <a href="http://depts.washington.edu/sibl/publications.html" title="washington.edu" rel="nofollow">reprints of many of her papers</a> [washington.edu] on her lab's website, but this current paper is listed as in press.  I agree with Laird that it would be nice to read what the article actually said.  But I also think that it was weak to posti a blog response criticizing a popular news medium's reporting on a scientific paper, without first reading the paper.  The blog post consists of suppositions of how the popular report may have differed from the facts in the academic paper.  And then warns that the popular media is just trying to attract eyeball to advertising rather than establish "truth".  Of course, the rich irony here is that the blog post is based on no primary source  (e.g. an interview or the academic article in question) and makes a controversial opposing claim based on little to no information or evidence, and does all this on an advertising supported site!</htmltext>
<tokenext>The article mentioned in Ambient belonging : How stereotypical cues impact gender participation in computer science .
Cheryan et al. , Journal of Personality and Social Psychology .
Vol 97 ( 6 ) , Dec 2009 , 1045-1060 .
[ apa.org ] . My institution apparently does n't subscribe to this APA journal .
Here is the lead author 's website [ washington.edu ] .
She posts reprints of many of her papers [ washington.edu ] on her lab 's website , but this current paper is listed as in press .
I agree with Laird that it would be nice to read what the article actually said .
But I also think that it was weak to posti a blog response criticizing a popular news medium 's reporting on a scientific paper , without first reading the paper .
The blog post consists of suppositions of how the popular report may have differed from the facts in the academic paper .
And then warns that the popular media is just trying to attract eyeball to advertising rather than establish " truth " .
Of course , the rich irony here is that the blog post is based on no primary source ( e.g .
an interview or the academic article in question ) and makes a controversial opposing claim based on little to no information or evidence , and does all this on an advertising supported site !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The article mentioned in  Ambient belonging: How stereotypical cues impact gender participation in computer science.
Cheryan et al., Journal of Personality and Social Psychology.
Vol 97(6), Dec 2009, 1045-1060.
[apa.org].  My institution apparently doesn't subscribe to this APA journal.
Here is the lead author's website [washington.edu].
She posts reprints of many of her papers [washington.edu] on her lab's website, but this current paper is listed as in press.
I agree with Laird that it would be nice to read what the article actually said.
But I also think that it was weak to posti a blog response criticizing a popular news medium's reporting on a scientific paper, without first reading the paper.
The blog post consists of suppositions of how the popular report may have differed from the facts in the academic paper.
And then warns that the popular media is just trying to attract eyeball to advertising rather than establish "truth".
Of course, the rich irony here is that the blog post is based on no primary source  (e.g.
an interview or the academic article in question) and makes a controversial opposing claim based on little to no information or evidence, and does all this on an advertising supported site!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479514</id>
	<title>Re:The money issue is not as simple as stated</title>
	<author>Hacker\_PingWu</author>
	<datestamp>1261045800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yeah, that's just it. If you're intent on doing programming work with or without the benefit of a degree, often even if you have a masters, you're a monkey they put in front a keyboard. One reliable, commited
guy in one of the Slavic countries, in the Scandinavian peninsula or North Africa on contract for a project can often do the work that would take a team of a half dozen people in the US a year to complete
at standard salary here, in half the time, for 25\% of the cost and none of the lip.<br>

<br>You really need to have more expertise than "just" programming like an engineering or networking specialization as well, or you start looking lackluster in comparison to the guys with masters in
Comp Sci and in Engineering fields that have years of experience, program well as a requirement for their past jobs... but are currently living with their family or out of their car.<br>

<br>With deregulation of business practices and increasing globalization, the coding part of Comp Sci alone isn't anywhere near the lucrative field it used to be.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , that 's just it .
If you 're intent on doing programming work with or without the benefit of a degree , often even if you have a masters , you 're a monkey they put in front a keyboard .
One reliable , commited guy in one of the Slavic countries , in the Scandinavian peninsula or North Africa on contract for a project can often do the work that would take a team of a half dozen people in the US a year to complete at standard salary here , in half the time , for 25 \ % of the cost and none of the lip .
You really need to have more expertise than " just " programming like an engineering or networking specialization as well , or you start looking lackluster in comparison to the guys with masters in Comp Sci and in Engineering fields that have years of experience , program well as a requirement for their past jobs... but are currently living with their family or out of their car .
With deregulation of business practices and increasing globalization , the coding part of Comp Sci alone is n't anywhere near the lucrative field it used to be .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, that's just it.
If you're intent on doing programming work with or without the benefit of a degree, often even if you have a masters, you're a monkey they put in front a keyboard.
One reliable, commited
guy in one of the Slavic countries, in the Scandinavian peninsula or North Africa on contract for a project can often do the work that would take a team of a half dozen people in the US a year to complete
at standard salary here, in half the time, for 25\% of the cost and none of the lip.
You really need to have more expertise than "just" programming like an engineering or networking specialization as well, or you start looking lackluster in comparison to the guys with masters in
Comp Sci and in Engineering fields that have years of experience, program well as a requirement for their past jobs... but are currently living with their family or out of their car.
With deregulation of business practices and increasing globalization, the coding part of Comp Sci alone isn't anywhere near the lucrative field it used to be.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479164</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480480</id>
	<title>Re:The money issue is not as simple as stated</title>
	<author>fusiongyro</author>
	<datestamp>1261049700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The challenge for people hell-bent on starting their careers as programmers (as opposed to computer engineers) seems to be that starting programmers are not worth as much.</p></div><p>From where I'm sitting, part of the reason for this is that to successfully program anything you have to understand it. Most starting programmers, even if they understand programming very well, don't understand any application domain. I'd like to know if the salary situation is as depressed for programmers with 5 or more years of experience. I suspect that though the barrier to entry in this field is low, the road to excellence is still narrow. I would be willing to wager that with engineering the starting salaries are higher because there are fewer people competing for starting positions, but that the overall career attrition rate is lower. Lots of people think they want to be programmers but find out after a year or two in industry that it doesn't suit them as a career. Most engineering fields don't have the same romantic draw. Other fields with high turnover in the early stages have low salaries that grow rapidly. The movie industry takes this to an absurd extreme, where you almost have to beg just to work for free in the beginning, but if you demonstrate a modicum of talent, it appears to me that you can find a fair amount of paying work simply because the volunteers are so bad and producers and directors get tired of wading through them to find the underpriced jewel.</p><p>I didn't get into this field to make a ton of money and I have been pleasantly surprised when pitifully low salaries turned into median salaries. The rule of thumb for programming as a career seems to be: interesting work, excellent tools, or high salary: pick one and a half. Don't do anything you don't enjoy just for the money or you'll burn out after a few years. I hope your son finds a way to follow his passions while still making decent money.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The challenge for people hell-bent on starting their careers as programmers ( as opposed to computer engineers ) seems to be that starting programmers are not worth as much.From where I 'm sitting , part of the reason for this is that to successfully program anything you have to understand it .
Most starting programmers , even if they understand programming very well , do n't understand any application domain .
I 'd like to know if the salary situation is as depressed for programmers with 5 or more years of experience .
I suspect that though the barrier to entry in this field is low , the road to excellence is still narrow .
I would be willing to wager that with engineering the starting salaries are higher because there are fewer people competing for starting positions , but that the overall career attrition rate is lower .
Lots of people think they want to be programmers but find out after a year or two in industry that it does n't suit them as a career .
Most engineering fields do n't have the same romantic draw .
Other fields with high turnover in the early stages have low salaries that grow rapidly .
The movie industry takes this to an absurd extreme , where you almost have to beg just to work for free in the beginning , but if you demonstrate a modicum of talent , it appears to me that you can find a fair amount of paying work simply because the volunteers are so bad and producers and directors get tired of wading through them to find the underpriced jewel.I did n't get into this field to make a ton of money and I have been pleasantly surprised when pitifully low salaries turned into median salaries .
The rule of thumb for programming as a career seems to be : interesting work , excellent tools , or high salary : pick one and a half .
Do n't do anything you do n't enjoy just for the money or you 'll burn out after a few years .
I hope your son finds a way to follow his passions while still making decent money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The challenge for people hell-bent on starting their careers as programmers (as opposed to computer engineers) seems to be that starting programmers are not worth as much.From where I'm sitting, part of the reason for this is that to successfully program anything you have to understand it.
Most starting programmers, even if they understand programming very well, don't understand any application domain.
I'd like to know if the salary situation is as depressed for programmers with 5 or more years of experience.
I suspect that though the barrier to entry in this field is low, the road to excellence is still narrow.
I would be willing to wager that with engineering the starting salaries are higher because there are fewer people competing for starting positions, but that the overall career attrition rate is lower.
Lots of people think they want to be programmers but find out after a year or two in industry that it doesn't suit them as a career.
Most engineering fields don't have the same romantic draw.
Other fields with high turnover in the early stages have low salaries that grow rapidly.
The movie industry takes this to an absurd extreme, where you almost have to beg just to work for free in the beginning, but if you demonstrate a modicum of talent, it appears to me that you can find a fair amount of paying work simply because the volunteers are so bad and producers and directors get tired of wading through them to find the underpriced jewel.I didn't get into this field to make a ton of money and I have been pleasantly surprised when pitifully low salaries turned into median salaries.
The rule of thumb for programming as a career seems to be: interesting work, excellent tools, or high salary: pick one and a half.
Don't do anything you don't enjoy just for the money or you'll burn out after a few years.
I hope your son finds a way to follow his passions while still making decent money.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479164</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30485342</id>
	<title>Re:Are you kidding?</title>
	<author>Vexar</author>
	<datestamp>1261138920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Okay, I'm parsing this.  You understand the challenges, you don't indicate in your post that you've ever faced them, so that makes you a college student, studying either computer science or information technology/related.  You align yourself with the technology culture by saying you are a geek.  You like technology, but not enough to face its challenges, so you're going for a "softer" job, which to you is teaching.  That means your defeatist spirit will then go on to influence young women in the future to leave it to the men, thereby propagating and multiplying the condition.  <p>
If I've gotten any of your background right, I'm going to suggest you not abandon your passion for technology, and just choose something a little less brutal, like technical support.  Your hours are fixed, you will face challenges, but they will not drain you because you will have peers to lean upon for input, until you get more proficient.  Leave the influence of young, capable female minds to the men and women who are driven.  Wok for five or ten years, prove yourself, then look at teaching.  I regard teaching young minds as a sacred job, not a bin for half-hearted left-overs from a degree program who wanted a soft place to land.</p><p>
My apologies to those in technical support who do go all-out.  I've met a few of you, but you know you are the exception!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Okay , I 'm parsing this .
You understand the challenges , you do n't indicate in your post that you 've ever faced them , so that makes you a college student , studying either computer science or information technology/related .
You align yourself with the technology culture by saying you are a geek .
You like technology , but not enough to face its challenges , so you 're going for a " softer " job , which to you is teaching .
That means your defeatist spirit will then go on to influence young women in the future to leave it to the men , thereby propagating and multiplying the condition .
If I 've gotten any of your background right , I 'm going to suggest you not abandon your passion for technology , and just choose something a little less brutal , like technical support .
Your hours are fixed , you will face challenges , but they will not drain you because you will have peers to lean upon for input , until you get more proficient .
Leave the influence of young , capable female minds to the men and women who are driven .
Wok for five or ten years , prove yourself , then look at teaching .
I regard teaching young minds as a sacred job , not a bin for half-hearted left-overs from a degree program who wanted a soft place to land .
My apologies to those in technical support who do go all-out .
I 've met a few of you , but you know you are the exception !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Okay, I'm parsing this.
You understand the challenges, you don't indicate in your post that you've ever faced them, so that makes you a college student, studying either computer science or information technology/related.
You align yourself with the technology culture by saying you are a geek.
You like technology, but not enough to face its challenges, so you're going for a "softer" job, which to you is teaching.
That means your defeatist spirit will then go on to influence young women in the future to leave it to the men, thereby propagating and multiplying the condition.
If I've gotten any of your background right, I'm going to suggest you not abandon your passion for technology, and just choose something a little less brutal, like technical support.
Your hours are fixed, you will face challenges, but they will not drain you because you will have peers to lean upon for input, until you get more proficient.
Leave the influence of young, capable female minds to the men and women who are driven.
Wok for five or ten years, prove yourself, then look at teaching.
I regard teaching young minds as a sacred job, not a bin for half-hearted left-overs from a degree program who wanted a soft place to land.
My apologies to those in technical support who do go all-out.
I've met a few of you, but you know you are the exception!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479332</id>
	<title>Re:Men aren&rsquo;t so dumb...</title>
	<author>JaredOfEuropa</author>
	<datestamp>1261045260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not just that, it works on all levels...  Men seem to be more willing to work silly hours for pizza than women.  Men are also more inclined to pretty much give up their personal life to go into higher management, whereas women prefer to forego a career in favour of working part-time.<br> <br>Men and women tend to make different choices; I don't know if it's Nature or Nurture, but smarts or stupidity have very little to do with it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not just that , it works on all levels... Men seem to be more willing to work silly hours for pizza than women .
Men are also more inclined to pretty much give up their personal life to go into higher management , whereas women prefer to forego a career in favour of working part-time .
Men and women tend to make different choices ; I do n't know if it 's Nature or Nurture , but smarts or stupidity have very little to do with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not just that, it works on all levels...  Men seem to be more willing to work silly hours for pizza than women.
Men are also more inclined to pretty much give up their personal life to go into higher management, whereas women prefer to forego a career in favour of working part-time.
Men and women tend to make different choices; I don't know if it's Nature or Nurture, but smarts or stupidity have very little to do with it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479034</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481372</id>
	<title>Re:From a phsychological point of view...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261054860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And, the extension of this is the extreme lack of women in Free Software. Politics is \_only\_ about emotion. Engaging in the political side of Software is emotional, and has to be. In<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.se, the amount of woman in the Software industry at large is about 10\%. In companies focusing on FOSS it's probably closer to 1\%... Sad but true.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And , the extension of this is the extreme lack of women in Free Software .
Politics is \ _only \ _ about emotion .
Engaging in the political side of Software is emotional , and has to be .
In .se , the amount of woman in the Software industry at large is about 10 \ % .
In companies focusing on FOSS it 's probably closer to 1 \ % ... Sad but true .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And, the extension of this is the extreme lack of women in Free Software.
Politics is \_only\_ about emotion.
Engaging in the political side of Software is emotional, and has to be.
In .se, the amount of woman in the Software industry at large is about 10\%.
In companies focusing on FOSS it's probably closer to 1\%... Sad but true.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480400</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30490558</id>
	<title>Re:I am seeing it.</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1261164180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh, so you mean its starting to become just like every other job on the planet short of being on the board of directors at a large company.</p><p>About time, maybe now all the whiney bitches who got into IT just because it was easy money will now get the fuck out and we can get back to people who know what they are doing and not a field filled with people who think because they get a CS degree or went to some MS certification classes or put together their own PC that they are capable of doing the job.</p><p>The problem you have is that you think there is some other field that is respected.  There isn't.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh , so you mean its starting to become just like every other job on the planet short of being on the board of directors at a large company.About time , maybe now all the whiney bitches who got into IT just because it was easy money will now get the fuck out and we can get back to people who know what they are doing and not a field filled with people who think because they get a CS degree or went to some MS certification classes or put together their own PC that they are capable of doing the job.The problem you have is that you think there is some other field that is respected .
There is n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh, so you mean its starting to become just like every other job on the planet short of being on the board of directors at a large company.About time, maybe now all the whiney bitches who got into IT just because it was easy money will now get the fuck out and we can get back to people who know what they are doing and not a field filled with people who think because they get a CS degree or went to some MS certification classes or put together their own PC that they are capable of doing the job.The problem you have is that you think there is some other field that is respected.
There isn't.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30478998</id>
	<title>Yeah right</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261044120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's still a great field with good salary, sane work hours and prospects for advancements. It's just not as compelling as during dot com boom. Women should stop making excuses and go into any good field they like.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's still a great field with good salary , sane work hours and prospects for advancements .
It 's just not as compelling as during dot com boom .
Women should stop making excuses and go into any good field they like .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's still a great field with good salary, sane work hours and prospects for advancements.
It's just not as compelling as during dot com boom.
Women should stop making excuses and go into any good field they like.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30482328</id>
	<title>Meh</title>
	<author>element-o.p.</author>
	<datestamp>1261060380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The question itself is sexist.  &quot;Not enough females...&quot; or &quot;Too many males...&quot; implies that there is some ratio of men:women that you would like to meet in the IT industry.  If you are trying to reach some proportion of employees based on gender, race, or any other artificial division we have used to differentiate ourselves, then you have already created an environment where getting the job done is less important than meeting some trivial detail that has absolutely no benefit to the company, other than perhaps PR.
<br> <br>
IMHO, unless you have some kind of evidence that gender, race, etc. is being used to discriminate against otherwise qualified employees, then stop worrying about it and let people naturally gravitate to the jobs they want.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The question itself is sexist .
" Not enough females... " or " Too many males... " implies that there is some ratio of men : women that you would like to meet in the IT industry .
If you are trying to reach some proportion of employees based on gender , race , or any other artificial division we have used to differentiate ourselves , then you have already created an environment where getting the job done is less important than meeting some trivial detail that has absolutely no benefit to the company , other than perhaps PR .
IMHO , unless you have some kind of evidence that gender , race , etc .
is being used to discriminate against otherwise qualified employees , then stop worrying about it and let people naturally gravitate to the jobs they want .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The question itself is sexist.
"Not enough females..." or "Too many males..." implies that there is some ratio of men:women that you would like to meet in the IT industry.
If you are trying to reach some proportion of employees based on gender, race, or any other artificial division we have used to differentiate ourselves, then you have already created an environment where getting the job done is less important than meeting some trivial detail that has absolutely no benefit to the company, other than perhaps PR.
IMHO, unless you have some kind of evidence that gender, race, etc.
is being used to discriminate against otherwise qualified employees, then stop worrying about it and let people naturally gravitate to the jobs they want.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479690</id>
	<title>Re:The blue collar job of the digital age</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261046460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Shoveling bits sucks.  It was fun about 10 years ago, but staring at a screen for a few years leaves one wanting for a change.</p></div><p>Agree completely. IT geeks as we know them are just spoilt kids who had the privilege of playing with gadgets, games and expensive toys like that while growing up, while their friends either had something more creative to do, or didn't have the privilege of getting their hands on the "latest hot tool." No wonder, the way 'normal' society looks upon them and those frequenting the dark alleys of punk and drugs or those brats who have nothing better to do than brag about what they've got happens to be the same.

It's time we looked into our profession in a more critical way, and geeks stopped behaving as if the rest of the world is plain stupid. But that's no reason why illogical gender issues should be brought in. Women's minds are specialized to be good at some other profession which male minds fail to comprehend.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Shoveling bits sucks .
It was fun about 10 years ago , but staring at a screen for a few years leaves one wanting for a change.Agree completely .
IT geeks as we know them are just spoilt kids who had the privilege of playing with gadgets , games and expensive toys like that while growing up , while their friends either had something more creative to do , or did n't have the privilege of getting their hands on the " latest hot tool .
" No wonder , the way 'normal ' society looks upon them and those frequenting the dark alleys of punk and drugs or those brats who have nothing better to do than brag about what they 've got happens to be the same .
It 's time we looked into our profession in a more critical way , and geeks stopped behaving as if the rest of the world is plain stupid .
But that 's no reason why illogical gender issues should be brought in .
Women 's minds are specialized to be good at some other profession which male minds fail to comprehend .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Shoveling bits sucks.
It was fun about 10 years ago, but staring at a screen for a few years leaves one wanting for a change.Agree completely.
IT geeks as we know them are just spoilt kids who had the privilege of playing with gadgets, games and expensive toys like that while growing up, while their friends either had something more creative to do, or didn't have the privilege of getting their hands on the "latest hot tool.
" No wonder, the way 'normal' society looks upon them and those frequenting the dark alleys of punk and drugs or those brats who have nothing better to do than brag about what they've got happens to be the same.
It's time we looked into our profession in a more critical way, and geeks stopped behaving as if the rest of the world is plain stupid.
But that's no reason why illogical gender issues should be brought in.
Women's minds are specialized to be good at some other profession which male minds fail to comprehend.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479308</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479208</id>
	<title>Re:I am seeing it.</title>
	<author>dave562</author>
	<datestamp>1261044780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree with you for IT workers.  On the other hand, if you've been in IT for a while and have any management ability or the inclination to do consulting, the ability to make a good living still exists.  I can't speak for the life of a corporate IT drone, but life in the small / medium business sector is thriving.  There are a lot of businesses out there that appreciate the necessity of having a stable IT foundation.  With the economic downturn there is more competition for the contracts, but if you're skilled and have a history of success behind you, the work is available.  My last employer replaced me with two people when I left in 2006 and he hasn't had to lay any of them off despite the "Greatest economic downturn since the Great Depression".</p><p>The greatest change I've seen is the shift to outsourcing and consulting.  The ability to have a successful, long term IT career at a single employer is probably further away than it has ever been.  But if a person is willing to do contract work, there is work aplenty.  Just check dice.com if you don't believe me.  I have my resume posted and even though I'm working full time, I still get a couple of calls a month from recruiters who are looking to fill positions.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree with you for IT workers .
On the other hand , if you 've been in IT for a while and have any management ability or the inclination to do consulting , the ability to make a good living still exists .
I ca n't speak for the life of a corporate IT drone , but life in the small / medium business sector is thriving .
There are a lot of businesses out there that appreciate the necessity of having a stable IT foundation .
With the economic downturn there is more competition for the contracts , but if you 're skilled and have a history of success behind you , the work is available .
My last employer replaced me with two people when I left in 2006 and he has n't had to lay any of them off despite the " Greatest economic downturn since the Great Depression " .The greatest change I 've seen is the shift to outsourcing and consulting .
The ability to have a successful , long term IT career at a single employer is probably further away than it has ever been .
But if a person is willing to do contract work , there is work aplenty .
Just check dice.com if you do n't believe me .
I have my resume posted and even though I 'm working full time , I still get a couple of calls a month from recruiters who are looking to fill positions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree with you for IT workers.
On the other hand, if you've been in IT for a while and have any management ability or the inclination to do consulting, the ability to make a good living still exists.
I can't speak for the life of a corporate IT drone, but life in the small / medium business sector is thriving.
There are a lot of businesses out there that appreciate the necessity of having a stable IT foundation.
With the economic downturn there is more competition for the contracts, but if you're skilled and have a history of success behind you, the work is available.
My last employer replaced me with two people when I left in 2006 and he hasn't had to lay any of them off despite the "Greatest economic downturn since the Great Depression".The greatest change I've seen is the shift to outsourcing and consulting.
The ability to have a successful, long term IT career at a single employer is probably further away than it has ever been.
But if a person is willing to do contract work, there is work aplenty.
Just check dice.com if you don't believe me.
I have my resume posted and even though I'm working full time, I still get a couple of calls a month from recruiters who are looking to fill positions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30478984</id>
	<title>Hypocritical</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261044060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"I don't think 'gender issues in computing' is important enough to merit the attention it gets,"</p><p>So why are you still talking about it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" I do n't think 'gender issues in computing ' is important enough to merit the attention it gets , " So why are you still talking about it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"I don't think 'gender issues in computing' is important enough to merit the attention it gets,"So why are you still talking about it?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480070</id>
	<title>Am I the only female on Slashdot?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261048140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I feel like it.</p><p>First of all, men are more for the dog eat dog competition while females choose to help first and compete second, in comparison to males. Because of this females tend to stick in groups. If we are alone and surrounded by sausages it takes away the advantage and comfort we are use to.</p><p>When I went to college (I'm only 22, so not that long ago.) there was more females in my comp sci classes than males. When I went to Intel there was more females to males hired. However, all it takes is one asshat guy to come in and be disrespectful enough to push us away. We will go be in our group somewhere else by transferring to a different part of the company.</p><p>Not only that but females have more non work issues to deal with that pulls us away. We also have to deal with promotional issues. Men brag to others about what they do for their ego, for what makes them feel good. Females tend to help each other to feel good. With the exception of the few are willing to segregate ourselves out from the crowd and push forward in the work world.</p><p>I can say a lot under the subject but take it with a grain of salt. My personal experience often varies from the majority and I'm not trying to create a stereotype.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I feel like it.First of all , men are more for the dog eat dog competition while females choose to help first and compete second , in comparison to males .
Because of this females tend to stick in groups .
If we are alone and surrounded by sausages it takes away the advantage and comfort we are use to.When I went to college ( I 'm only 22 , so not that long ago .
) there was more females in my comp sci classes than males .
When I went to Intel there was more females to males hired .
However , all it takes is one asshat guy to come in and be disrespectful enough to push us away .
We will go be in our group somewhere else by transferring to a different part of the company.Not only that but females have more non work issues to deal with that pulls us away .
We also have to deal with promotional issues .
Men brag to others about what they do for their ego , for what makes them feel good .
Females tend to help each other to feel good .
With the exception of the few are willing to segregate ourselves out from the crowd and push forward in the work world.I can say a lot under the subject but take it with a grain of salt .
My personal experience often varies from the majority and I 'm not trying to create a stereotype .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I feel like it.First of all, men are more for the dog eat dog competition while females choose to help first and compete second, in comparison to males.
Because of this females tend to stick in groups.
If we are alone and surrounded by sausages it takes away the advantage and comfort we are use to.When I went to college (I'm only 22, so not that long ago.
) there was more females in my comp sci classes than males.
When I went to Intel there was more females to males hired.
However, all it takes is one asshat guy to come in and be disrespectful enough to push us away.
We will go be in our group somewhere else by transferring to a different part of the company.Not only that but females have more non work issues to deal with that pulls us away.
We also have to deal with promotional issues.
Men brag to others about what they do for their ego, for what makes them feel good.
Females tend to help each other to feel good.
With the exception of the few are willing to segregate ourselves out from the crowd and push forward in the work world.I can say a lot under the subject but take it with a grain of salt.
My personal experience often varies from the majority and I'm not trying to create a stereotype.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30485680</id>
	<title>Re:Are you kidding?</title>
	<author>Lost Race</author>
	<datestamp>1261143120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you're really a geek then you should be in a carnival sideshow.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're really a geek then you should be in a carnival sideshow .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're really a geek then you should be in a carnival sideshow.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30482860</id>
	<title>Re:The money issue is not as simple as stated</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261064220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My internship right out of college put me at $43k a year. But I was hired full on after a couple months with a hefty raise and bonus.<br>Yeah, it took a few years to break $100k, but it was fun work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My internship right out of college put me at $ 43k a year .
But I was hired full on after a couple months with a hefty raise and bonus.Yeah , it took a few years to break $ 100k , but it was fun work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My internship right out of college put me at $43k a year.
But I was hired full on after a couple months with a hefty raise and bonus.Yeah, it took a few years to break $100k, but it was fun work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479164</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481130</id>
	<title>That's not the problem.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261053180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem with the computing profession is that there just aren't enough really hot chicks with tattoos and piercings, who wear tight, camo, short shorts, thin white t-shirts a couple of sizes too small, who collect gory zombie flicks, who love fragging the asswipe from accounting in deathmatch, and who will do anything you ask them to do for some Cheetos and Coke.</p><p>Come on, I know you're out there!</p><p>Gurgle. Crunch. Gurgle. Crunch.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem with the computing profession is that there just are n't enough really hot chicks with tattoos and piercings , who wear tight , camo , short shorts , thin white t-shirts a couple of sizes too small , who collect gory zombie flicks , who love fragging the asswipe from accounting in deathmatch , and who will do anything you ask them to do for some Cheetos and Coke.Come on , I know you 're out there ! Gurgle .
Crunch. Gurgle .
Crunch .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem with the computing profession is that there just aren't enough really hot chicks with tattoos and piercings, who wear tight, camo, short shorts, thin white t-shirts a couple of sizes too small, who collect gory zombie flicks, who love fragging the asswipe from accounting in deathmatch, and who will do anything you ask them to do for some Cheetos and Coke.Come on, I know you're out there!Gurgle.
Crunch. Gurgle.
Crunch.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480842</id>
	<title>Re:The money issue is not as simple as stated</title>
	<author>Yold</author>
	<datestamp>1261051440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If someone wants to be a programmer, the difference in salary between that and an engineer is negligible. Here is some statistical data that may help your son...</p><p>(from Occupational Outlook Handbook, bls.gov)<br>Median annual wages of computer and information scientists: $97,970<br>Median annual wage of computer programmer: $85,430<br>Average median of all engineer professions you mentioned: $79,090</p><p>(all engineering professions)<br><a href="http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm#earnings" title="bls.gov">http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm#earnings</a> [bls.gov]</p><p>I'd also like to point out that Econometrics, Biochemistry, Statistics, Actuarial Science, and Operations Management pair nicely with CSCI if earnings is important.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If someone wants to be a programmer , the difference in salary between that and an engineer is negligible .
Here is some statistical data that may help your son... ( from Occupational Outlook Handbook , bls.gov ) Median annual wages of computer and information scientists : $ 97,970Median annual wage of computer programmer : $ 85,430Average median of all engineer professions you mentioned : $ 79,090 ( all engineering professions ) http : //www.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm # earnings [ bls.gov ] I 'd also like to point out that Econometrics , Biochemistry , Statistics , Actuarial Science , and Operations Management pair nicely with CSCI if earnings is important .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If someone wants to be a programmer, the difference in salary between that and an engineer is negligible.
Here is some statistical data that may help your son...(from Occupational Outlook Handbook, bls.gov)Median annual wages of computer and information scientists: $97,970Median annual wage of computer programmer: $85,430Average median of all engineer professions you mentioned: $79,090(all engineering professions)http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm#earnings [bls.gov]I'd also like to point out that Econometrics, Biochemistry, Statistics, Actuarial Science, and Operations Management pair nicely with CSCI if earnings is important.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479164</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479972</id>
	<title>Re:It's a matter of fun</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261047660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Boys grow up with computer games</p></div><p>I got into comp sci because I wanted to code better options into my Barbie fashion designer games, but my brother took a poli-sci route even though he played way more games then I did. In the past 20 or so years, there have been a steady slew of video games for girls, and we're still seeing the gender disparities.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Boys grow up with computer gamesI got into comp sci because I wanted to code better options into my Barbie fashion designer games , but my brother took a poli-sci route even though he played way more games then I did .
In the past 20 or so years , there have been a steady slew of video games for girls , and we 're still seeing the gender disparities .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Boys grow up with computer gamesI got into comp sci because I wanted to code better options into my Barbie fashion designer games, but my brother took a poli-sci route even though he played way more games then I did.
In the past 20 or so years, there have been a steady slew of video games for girls, and we're still seeing the gender disparities.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479160</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30482736</id>
	<title>Re:Am I the only female on Slashdot?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261063320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Females tend to help each other to feel good.</p> </div><p>Go ahead and take this with a grain of salt, since this is only one person's experience.</p><p>Here is the timeline of my experience in basic training in the air force (not too long ago):</p><p>-Put your bag down! Pick your bag up! (equal response)<br>-Goddammit you need ta march with yer feet hitting the same beat HUP TWO TREE FOR (women win by miles)<br>-You need ta help your bunkmate get 'is SHIT TOGETHER! (men win by a landslide, as the sister flight is already getting into micropolitics)<br>-I want your shirts aligned to the micrometer and I want your marching to be in step to the yottasecond! (by this time, the women are falling into factions)<br>-Graduation is tomorrow, don't f*&amp;^ing embarrass me! (and by now, the women have split into camps while the men have unified)</p><p>I agree with what you said up until about 3 weeks into a project. After that, the men catch up on the unified front level and the women fall behind because of the clique thing. I'm not going to say that one side is better since both genders have their strengths, but ask any drill instructor: Women hate each other by the end of boot, and men create life-long bonds. That's generalization but one that fits 90\%+ of the people I've known.</p><p>-b</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Females tend to help each other to feel good .
Go ahead and take this with a grain of salt , since this is only one person 's experience.Here is the timeline of my experience in basic training in the air force ( not too long ago ) : -Put your bag down !
Pick your bag up !
( equal response ) -Goddammit you need ta march with yer feet hitting the same beat HUP TWO TREE FOR ( women win by miles ) -You need ta help your bunkmate get 'is SHIT TOGETHER !
( men win by a landslide , as the sister flight is already getting into micropolitics ) -I want your shirts aligned to the micrometer and I want your marching to be in step to the yottasecond !
( by this time , the women are falling into factions ) -Graduation is tomorrow , do n't f * &amp; ^ ing embarrass me !
( and by now , the women have split into camps while the men have unified ) I agree with what you said up until about 3 weeks into a project .
After that , the men catch up on the unified front level and the women fall behind because of the clique thing .
I 'm not going to say that one side is better since both genders have their strengths , but ask any drill instructor : Women hate each other by the end of boot , and men create life-long bonds .
That 's generalization but one that fits 90 \ % + of the people I 've known.-b</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Females tend to help each other to feel good.
Go ahead and take this with a grain of salt, since this is only one person's experience.Here is the timeline of my experience in basic training in the air force (not too long ago):-Put your bag down!
Pick your bag up!
(equal response)-Goddammit you need ta march with yer feet hitting the same beat HUP TWO TREE FOR (women win by miles)-You need ta help your bunkmate get 'is SHIT TOGETHER!
(men win by a landslide, as the sister flight is already getting into micropolitics)-I want your shirts aligned to the micrometer and I want your marching to be in step to the yottasecond!
(by this time, the women are falling into factions)-Graduation is tomorrow, don't f*&amp;^ing embarrass me!
(and by now, the women have split into camps while the men have unified)I agree with what you said up until about 3 weeks into a project.
After that, the men catch up on the unified front level and the women fall behind because of the clique thing.
I'm not going to say that one side is better since both genders have their strengths, but ask any drill instructor: Women hate each other by the end of boot, and men create life-long bonds.
That's generalization but one that fits 90\%+ of the people I've known.-b
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480070</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480002</id>
	<title>Re:Garbage men..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261047780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>but we see the ratio of men to women in computing because men are interested in or gifted in computing at a ratio higher than women.</p></div><p>Working in computing requires a certain amount of rational and logical thinking as well as the ability to grasp complex abstractions and juggle multiple constructs simultaneously in the short term memory. At the risk of sounding politically incorrect, these traits are much more common in men and even then mostly in particular personality types (not every man is cut out to work in computing either). Finally there is a certain minimum intelligence score required to grasp the complex incantations required for high level IT work. That last one was a joke for those not following.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>but we see the ratio of men to women in computing because men are interested in or gifted in computing at a ratio higher than women.Working in computing requires a certain amount of rational and logical thinking as well as the ability to grasp complex abstractions and juggle multiple constructs simultaneously in the short term memory .
At the risk of sounding politically incorrect , these traits are much more common in men and even then mostly in particular personality types ( not every man is cut out to work in computing either ) .
Finally there is a certain minimum intelligence score required to grasp the complex incantations required for high level IT work .
That last one was a joke for those not following .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>but we see the ratio of men to women in computing because men are interested in or gifted in computing at a ratio higher than women.Working in computing requires a certain amount of rational and logical thinking as well as the ability to grasp complex abstractions and juggle multiple constructs simultaneously in the short term memory.
At the risk of sounding politically incorrect, these traits are much more common in men and even then mostly in particular personality types (not every man is cut out to work in computing either).
Finally there is a certain minimum intelligence score required to grasp the complex incantations required for high level IT work.
That last one was a joke for those not following.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479242</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479848</id>
	<title>Re:Depends on the Pizza</title>
	<author>t33jster</author>
	<datestamp>1261047120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not to get all semantic or anything, but I think that would be more of an assault rifle <i>incentive</i> rather than <i>benefit</i>.  It's brilliant from a management perspective, as the incentive can be either a reward for good performance or a punishment for poor performance.  <br> <br> 100\% utilization FTW!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not to get all semantic or anything , but I think that would be more of an assault rifle incentive rather than benefit .
It 's brilliant from a management perspective , as the incentive can be either a reward for good performance or a punishment for poor performance .
100 \ % utilization FTW !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not to get all semantic or anything, but I think that would be more of an assault rifle incentive rather than benefit.
It's brilliant from a management perspective, as the incentive can be either a reward for good performance or a punishment for poor performance.
100\% utilization FTW!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479254</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30490630</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the same.</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1261164480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Our nation was NEVER intended to have 'open borders'.</p><p>We DO welcome others with open arms, but only to a certain extent.</p><p>If you'd like to live in a country with open borders, go live in the outkirts of Mexico City, cause thats what it would be like.</p><p>There are a finite amount of resources here, which requires we limit the amount of people here to something reasonable so that the entire system doesn't collapse instantly.</p><p>What you are proposing is basically taking WoW, the way it is now, with the number of servers and internet connections it has now, and making it free for everyone to play as much as they want.  How long do you think the servers would hold out? 2 hours?  3 if you announce it at the right time of day?  20 minutes if you do it at the wrong time of day.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Our nation was NEVER intended to have 'open borders'.We DO welcome others with open arms , but only to a certain extent.If you 'd like to live in a country with open borders , go live in the outkirts of Mexico City , cause thats what it would be like.There are a finite amount of resources here , which requires we limit the amount of people here to something reasonable so that the entire system does n't collapse instantly.What you are proposing is basically taking WoW , the way it is now , with the number of servers and internet connections it has now , and making it free for everyone to play as much as they want .
How long do you think the servers would hold out ?
2 hours ?
3 if you announce it at the right time of day ?
20 minutes if you do it at the wrong time of day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Our nation was NEVER intended to have 'open borders'.We DO welcome others with open arms, but only to a certain extent.If you'd like to live in a country with open borders, go live in the outkirts of Mexico City, cause thats what it would be like.There are a finite amount of resources here, which requires we limit the amount of people here to something reasonable so that the entire system doesn't collapse instantly.What you are proposing is basically taking WoW, the way it is now, with the number of servers and internet connections it has now, and making it free for everyone to play as much as they want.
How long do you think the servers would hold out?
2 hours?
3 if you announce it at the right time of day?
20 minutes if you do it at the wrong time of day.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480218</id>
	<title>Just be warned</title>
	<author>Sycraft-fu</author>
	<datestamp>1261048740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Teaching is hard work, low pay, and often very thankless. My mom was a teacher for about 25 years and I really wouldn't wish that on anyone. While it is the sort of thing that certain people thrive in, particularly those that are very caring and have a "Save the world" mentality, I think most skilled people would be better off doing something else. The pay is just not in line with other jobs requiring a master's level of education. Now that might be ok if it were easy work, but it isn't. Teachers have tons of homework to deal with, it is very much a job that is not 9-5. Then there's all the problems. You WILL have parents shout at you, try to get your fired, you'll have kids that come from broken homes, you'll have to be a babysitter as well as a teacher.</p><p>So, if you are the kind of person who thrives on helping others, the kind of person who saving just one person can be a worthwhile reward for a lot of work, then look at it. However if you think that it is going to be less work than IT you are kidding yourself. I work so much less than mom did it isn't even funny.</p><p>Just make sure you know what you are getting in to.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Teaching is hard work , low pay , and often very thankless .
My mom was a teacher for about 25 years and I really would n't wish that on anyone .
While it is the sort of thing that certain people thrive in , particularly those that are very caring and have a " Save the world " mentality , I think most skilled people would be better off doing something else .
The pay is just not in line with other jobs requiring a master 's level of education .
Now that might be ok if it were easy work , but it is n't .
Teachers have tons of homework to deal with , it is very much a job that is not 9-5 .
Then there 's all the problems .
You WILL have parents shout at you , try to get your fired , you 'll have kids that come from broken homes , you 'll have to be a babysitter as well as a teacher.So , if you are the kind of person who thrives on helping others , the kind of person who saving just one person can be a worthwhile reward for a lot of work , then look at it .
However if you think that it is going to be less work than IT you are kidding yourself .
I work so much less than mom did it is n't even funny.Just make sure you know what you are getting in to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Teaching is hard work, low pay, and often very thankless.
My mom was a teacher for about 25 years and I really wouldn't wish that on anyone.
While it is the sort of thing that certain people thrive in, particularly those that are very caring and have a "Save the world" mentality, I think most skilled people would be better off doing something else.
The pay is just not in line with other jobs requiring a master's level of education.
Now that might be ok if it were easy work, but it isn't.
Teachers have tons of homework to deal with, it is very much a job that is not 9-5.
Then there's all the problems.
You WILL have parents shout at you, try to get your fired, you'll have kids that come from broken homes, you'll have to be a babysitter as well as a teacher.So, if you are the kind of person who thrives on helping others, the kind of person who saving just one person can be a worthwhile reward for a lot of work, then look at it.
However if you think that it is going to be less work than IT you are kidding yourself.
I work so much less than mom did it isn't even funny.Just make sure you know what you are getting in to.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480094</id>
	<title>How many years before slashdot enters the post-g</title>
	<author>avandesande</author>
	<datestamp>1261048200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How many years before slashdot enters the post-"IT gender naval gazing" period?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How many years before slashdot enters the post- " IT gender naval gazing " period ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How many years before slashdot enters the post-"IT gender naval gazing" period?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479242</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481990</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261058220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>really?!  To me it sounds like someone who realizes things aren't fair and is getting screwed over by stupid policies enacted to try and make things fairer.<br>Really, why do we care if there are more men in IT or technology but don't care if there are more women in nursing or teaching?  Why do we enact polices to try and get more women into a field while I have never heard of trying to get more men into a field.  It gets even more ridiculous when you start worrying about minorities.<br>Life isn't fair.  Never has been and probably never will be.  Until people are considered for a job based only on talents, ability and experience instead of sex or race will we be able to move to a fairer world.   Men and women are different and these differences maybe why one of the sexes are over represented in a particular profession.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>really ? !
To me it sounds like someone who realizes things are n't fair and is getting screwed over by stupid policies enacted to try and make things fairer.Really , why do we care if there are more men in IT or technology but do n't care if there are more women in nursing or teaching ?
Why do we enact polices to try and get more women into a field while I have never heard of trying to get more men into a field .
It gets even more ridiculous when you start worrying about minorities.Life is n't fair .
Never has been and probably never will be .
Until people are considered for a job based only on talents , ability and experience instead of sex or race will we be able to move to a fairer world .
Men and women are different and these differences maybe why one of the sexes are over represented in a particular profession .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>really?!
To me it sounds like someone who realizes things aren't fair and is getting screwed over by stupid policies enacted to try and make things fairer.Really, why do we care if there are more men in IT or technology but don't care if there are more women in nursing or teaching?
Why do we enact polices to try and get more women into a field while I have never heard of trying to get more men into a field.
It gets even more ridiculous when you start worrying about minorities.Life isn't fair.
Never has been and probably never will be.
Until people are considered for a job based only on talents, ability and experience instead of sex or race will we be able to move to a fairer world.
Men and women are different and these differences maybe why one of the sexes are over represented in a particular profession.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481038</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480204</id>
	<title>So what?</title>
	<author>mwvdlee</author>
	<datestamp>1261048680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Do geeks really 'drive girls out of computer science</p></div><p>And so what if it does? Do geeks have to banned from computer science so girls will want in? Do guys have to pretend not to be geeks so girls will want in?<br>If girls don't want to go into computer science because of geeks, then so what?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do geeks really 'drive girls out of computer scienceAnd so what if it does ?
Do geeks have to banned from computer science so girls will want in ?
Do guys have to pretend not to be geeks so girls will want in ? If girls do n't want to go into computer science because of geeks , then so what ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do geeks really 'drive girls out of computer scienceAnd so what if it does?
Do geeks have to banned from computer science so girls will want in?
Do guys have to pretend not to be geeks so girls will want in?If girls don't want to go into computer science because of geeks, then so what?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481016</id>
	<title>Easiest path choice</title>
	<author>gmuslera</author>
	<datestamp>1261052700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>When i had to choose a career, was seeing computing more as a medium than as an end, a tool for whatever else i could pick. But also was the easiest path choice, and one that in that moment had good odds of get a job after finishing it (other things i liked back then, related to chemistry or physics, looked back then with low odds of getting a job, at least in my country). It turned to be not only a medium for other things, but an end by itself, but i saw that after starting.<br>Now, if mostly getting a job is what decides what you choose at that age, women just had more options than men, at least in the short term view that i had back then, specially in the "tool" (as in computing as a tool) career field, either picking a harder/longer/exotic career or go for a short training to get a profitable job fast.</htmltext>
<tokenext>When i had to choose a career , was seeing computing more as a medium than as an end , a tool for whatever else i could pick .
But also was the easiest path choice , and one that in that moment had good odds of get a job after finishing it ( other things i liked back then , related to chemistry or physics , looked back then with low odds of getting a job , at least in my country ) .
It turned to be not only a medium for other things , but an end by itself , but i saw that after starting.Now , if mostly getting a job is what decides what you choose at that age , women just had more options than men , at least in the short term view that i had back then , specially in the " tool " ( as in computing as a tool ) career field , either picking a harder/longer/exotic career or go for a short training to get a profitable job fast .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When i had to choose a career, was seeing computing more as a medium than as an end, a tool for whatever else i could pick.
But also was the easiest path choice, and one that in that moment had good odds of get a job after finishing it (other things i liked back then, related to chemistry or physics, looked back then with low odds of getting a job, at least in my country).
It turned to be not only a medium for other things, but an end by itself, but i saw that after starting.Now, if mostly getting a job is what decides what you choose at that age, women just had more options than men, at least in the short term view that i had back then, specially in the "tool" (as in computing as a tool) career field, either picking a harder/longer/exotic career or go for a short training to get a profitable job fast.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480080</id>
	<title>I'm offended by the idea that computers are stupid</title>
	<author>selven</author>
	<datestamp>1261048140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I am going to go into a career involving computers because I LIKE computers and technology, not because I'm a materialist and that's the way to get 12\% more salary. I like the geek culture and I would hate to live in an environment where my Linux/particle physics/math jokes would be met by blank stares. I would hate to live an environment where other people's jokes would be met by my blank stares. Computers are my interest and nothing can change that, so going into a career anywhere else would be putting a square peg into a round hole - constant frustration and a general lack of job satisfaction would ensue.<br><br>&lt;/rant&gt;</htmltext>
<tokenext>I am going to go into a career involving computers because I LIKE computers and technology , not because I 'm a materialist and that 's the way to get 12 \ % more salary .
I like the geek culture and I would hate to live in an environment where my Linux/particle physics/math jokes would be met by blank stares .
I would hate to live an environment where other people 's jokes would be met by my blank stares .
Computers are my interest and nothing can change that , so going into a career anywhere else would be putting a square peg into a round hole - constant frustration and a general lack of job satisfaction would ensue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am going to go into a career involving computers because I LIKE computers and technology, not because I'm a materialist and that's the way to get 12\% more salary.
I like the geek culture and I would hate to live in an environment where my Linux/particle physics/math jokes would be met by blank stares.
I would hate to live an environment where other people's jokes would be met by my blank stares.
Computers are my interest and nothing can change that, so going into a career anywhere else would be putting a square peg into a round hole - constant frustration and a general lack of job satisfaction would ensue.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479678</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>Ephemeriis</author>
	<datestamp>1261046400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's still a great field with good salary, sane work hours and prospects for advancements.</p></div><p>I'm really not sure how to take this...  We really need a sarcasm tag or something...  Because I'm having a hard time believing you're serious, but I just don't know.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's still a great field with good salary , sane work hours and prospects for advancements.I 'm really not sure how to take this... We really need a sarcasm tag or something... Because I 'm having a hard time believing you 're serious , but I just do n't know .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's still a great field with good salary, sane work hours and prospects for advancements.I'm really not sure how to take this...  We really need a sarcasm tag or something...  Because I'm having a hard time believing you're serious, but I just don't know.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30478998</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479078</id>
	<title>Going into it for all the wrong reasons...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261044420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you go into any job for the wrong reasons and aren't honest with yourself about what the work is like, you're not going to enjoy it.  It's like saying that people go into law or medicine only for the money; that may be true for some, but the ones who trully enjoy it recognize long hours come with the territory.</p><p>All the same things could be said with medicine as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you go into any job for the wrong reasons and are n't honest with yourself about what the work is like , you 're not going to enjoy it .
It 's like saying that people go into law or medicine only for the money ; that may be true for some , but the ones who trully enjoy it recognize long hours come with the territory.All the same things could be said with medicine as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you go into any job for the wrong reasons and aren't honest with yourself about what the work is like, you're not going to enjoy it.
It's like saying that people go into law or medicine only for the money; that may be true for some, but the ones who trully enjoy it recognize long hours come with the territory.All the same things could be said with medicine as well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30485228</id>
	<title>Re:Oh please...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261136880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>That is prima facie reason to suspect there may be sexism involved</p></div><p>Why jump to that suspicion above any others? Have you been to a science/technology lecture in any university and compared the gender breakdown compared to, say, a philosophy lecture? To insinuate that there's a chance that there's not many women working in IT because they are being 'bullied out' by men (many of whom will flock to any posting of 'I am a girl' on reddit/digg/etc, drooling) is stupid.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That is prima facie reason to suspect there may be sexism involvedWhy jump to that suspicion above any others ?
Have you been to a science/technology lecture in any university and compared the gender breakdown compared to , say , a philosophy lecture ?
To insinuate that there 's a chance that there 's not many women working in IT because they are being 'bullied out ' by men ( many of whom will flock to any posting of 'I am a girl ' on reddit/digg/etc , drooling ) is stupid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is prima facie reason to suspect there may be sexism involvedWhy jump to that suspicion above any others?
Have you been to a science/technology lecture in any university and compared the gender breakdown compared to, say, a philosophy lecture?
To insinuate that there's a chance that there's not many women working in IT because they are being 'bullied out' by men (many of whom will flock to any posting of 'I am a girl' on reddit/digg/etc, drooling) is stupid.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479668</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30485748</id>
	<title>Re:Another one of these??</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261143840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I strongly suspect there is a strong cultural component at play here.</p><p>I've worked for 12 years in IT across 3 different countries (Portugal, Holland and the UK) often (but not always) with female colleagues.</p><p>What I see happen is that in software development teams, proven technical competence tends to be the main factor in terms of getting respect from others. This might differ from the US for different reasons in all 3 countries:<br>- In Portugal there is a tradition of "respect" towards people in "intelectual" professions (such as Doctors, Engineers, Architects, Lawyers). This has naturally extended to women in those positions (nowadays more women graduate from University than men).<br>- The Dutch society has a strong equality streak to it. This is seen not only in axis of wealth equality (where, for example, extravagant displays of wealth are frowned upon) but also in gender equality and others.<br>- It the UK, more specifically in London where I work, things are all over the place. London is a huge melting pot of cultures and this results in environments where everybody is just a little bit extra carefull in their behaviour towards others to avoid giving offence. That said, the level of sexist behaviour in people here is very much tightly coupled with were they grew up: I've noticed that for example my colleagues that come from the Indian sub-continent tend to treat women in a less-equal fashion than those that come from (say) Northern Europe: this extends to the women's behaviour also, my Indian female colleagues tend to behave in a more submissive/passive way than Western European women (to be honest this kind of gets in my nerves since I actually much prefer strong-willed women).</p><p>From the stories I read here i suspect the US has a strong "jock" culture going on, which would explain an extra "macho" style environment in there.</p><p>That said, in all those environments having women in the team does shift things away from a the geek-macho type environment. The more women there are, the more things move towards a more moderate, less macho-type-posturing-and-swearing type of group dynamics.</p><p>A single woman coming into a mostly guys team (say, 8 guys) will be a lot more strongly pressured to play by the rules of the existing game, than 2 or 3 women in that same team or, for example, a single woman in a team with 2 or 3 guys. Also management makes a lot of difference - male managers are often the source of a lot of the macho posturing and in a team with a female manager overall behaviour will be much more moderated and much easier for a woman to come in and feel confortable (about 1/3 of the teams I worked in were managed by women).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I strongly suspect there is a strong cultural component at play here.I 've worked for 12 years in IT across 3 different countries ( Portugal , Holland and the UK ) often ( but not always ) with female colleagues.What I see happen is that in software development teams , proven technical competence tends to be the main factor in terms of getting respect from others .
This might differ from the US for different reasons in all 3 countries : - In Portugal there is a tradition of " respect " towards people in " intelectual " professions ( such as Doctors , Engineers , Architects , Lawyers ) .
This has naturally extended to women in those positions ( nowadays more women graduate from University than men ) .- The Dutch society has a strong equality streak to it .
This is seen not only in axis of wealth equality ( where , for example , extravagant displays of wealth are frowned upon ) but also in gender equality and others.- It the UK , more specifically in London where I work , things are all over the place .
London is a huge melting pot of cultures and this results in environments where everybody is just a little bit extra carefull in their behaviour towards others to avoid giving offence .
That said , the level of sexist behaviour in people here is very much tightly coupled with were they grew up : I 've noticed that for example my colleagues that come from the Indian sub-continent tend to treat women in a less-equal fashion than those that come from ( say ) Northern Europe : this extends to the women 's behaviour also , my Indian female colleagues tend to behave in a more submissive/passive way than Western European women ( to be honest this kind of gets in my nerves since I actually much prefer strong-willed women ) .From the stories I read here i suspect the US has a strong " jock " culture going on , which would explain an extra " macho " style environment in there.That said , in all those environments having women in the team does shift things away from a the geek-macho type environment .
The more women there are , the more things move towards a more moderate , less macho-type-posturing-and-swearing type of group dynamics.A single woman coming into a mostly guys team ( say , 8 guys ) will be a lot more strongly pressured to play by the rules of the existing game , than 2 or 3 women in that same team or , for example , a single woman in a team with 2 or 3 guys .
Also management makes a lot of difference - male managers are often the source of a lot of the macho posturing and in a team with a female manager overall behaviour will be much more moderated and much easier for a woman to come in and feel confortable ( about 1/3 of the teams I worked in were managed by women ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I strongly suspect there is a strong cultural component at play here.I've worked for 12 years in IT across 3 different countries (Portugal, Holland and the UK) often (but not always) with female colleagues.What I see happen is that in software development teams, proven technical competence tends to be the main factor in terms of getting respect from others.
This might differ from the US for different reasons in all 3 countries:- In Portugal there is a tradition of "respect" towards people in "intelectual" professions (such as Doctors, Engineers, Architects, Lawyers).
This has naturally extended to women in those positions (nowadays more women graduate from University than men).- The Dutch society has a strong equality streak to it.
This is seen not only in axis of wealth equality (where, for example, extravagant displays of wealth are frowned upon) but also in gender equality and others.- It the UK, more specifically in London where I work, things are all over the place.
London is a huge melting pot of cultures and this results in environments where everybody is just a little bit extra carefull in their behaviour towards others to avoid giving offence.
That said, the level of sexist behaviour in people here is very much tightly coupled with were they grew up: I've noticed that for example my colleagues that come from the Indian sub-continent tend to treat women in a less-equal fashion than those that come from (say) Northern Europe: this extends to the women's behaviour also, my Indian female colleagues tend to behave in a more submissive/passive way than Western European women (to be honest this kind of gets in my nerves since I actually much prefer strong-willed women).From the stories I read here i suspect the US has a strong "jock" culture going on, which would explain an extra "macho" style environment in there.That said, in all those environments having women in the team does shift things away from a the geek-macho type environment.
The more women there are, the more things move towards a more moderate, less macho-type-posturing-and-swearing type of group dynamics.A single woman coming into a mostly guys team (say, 8 guys) will be a lot more strongly pressured to play by the rules of the existing game, than 2 or 3 women in that same team or, for example, a single woman in a team with 2 or 3 guys.
Also management makes a lot of difference - male managers are often the source of a lot of the macho posturing and in a team with a female manager overall behaviour will be much more moderated and much easier for a woman to come in and feel confortable (about 1/3 of the teams I worked in were managed by women).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480564</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479130</id>
	<title>Not enough vs. too many</title>
	<author>Psychotic\_Wrath</author>
	<datestamp>1261044540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Since they are relative terms it makes no difference in how it is stated. So it depends on the point of refrence.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Since they are relative terms it makes no difference in how it is stated .
So it depends on the point of refrence .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since they are relative terms it makes no difference in how it is stated.
So it depends on the point of refrence.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480112</id>
	<title>Re:Are you kidding?</title>
	<author>d34dluk3</author>
	<datestamp>1261048380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I am a girl.</p></div><p>*dives for cover as a herd of moderators rushes to mod up*</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I am a girl .
* dives for cover as a herd of moderators rushes to mod up *</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am a girl.
*dives for cover as a herd of moderators rushes to mod up*
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480398</id>
	<title>Re:Are you kidding?</title>
	<author>selven</author>
	<datestamp>1261049460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What kind of teaching? There's a big difference between elementary school and being a university professor - from I heard the latter can actually be quite interesting.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What kind of teaching ?
There 's a big difference between elementary school and being a university professor - from I heard the latter can actually be quite interesting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What kind of teaching?
There's a big difference between elementary school and being a university professor - from I heard the latter can actually be quite interesting.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480976</id>
	<title>Bah, this is one of those stupid things...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261052460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...where everyone always talks about it because its "politically" correct or incorrect.</p><p>My experience goes like this: To really know wtf you are doing, you have to spend insane amounts of time on the computer, fscking with stuff. I'm talking about skipping the prom or the homecoming game and trying to get the stupid fscking 8-bit western digital SCSI card to work on like version  1.x.x of Linux. Or, trying to decipher some crazy-a$$ code written by some drunk guy back in late 1970s by a crappy C compiler to figure out htf something is supposed to work.</p><p>The point is, while I had social relationships during teenage years (yes, I've dated few girls), I have spent most of my time on the computer. Matter of fact, I would be half asleep in school and work, and load on Jolt Coke and Mountain Dew just so I could stay up longer so I can mess with stuff on my computer.</p><p>Now, I have not, ever, in my entire life, met a girl that is like that. Matter of fact, I've only met handful of guys that were like that. The funny part is, all the guys that were like that actually have great jobs as lead engineers and make tons of money.</p><p>Other people (including girls I've had in classes) work in less interesting places either doing IT type of stuff, or doing stuff like web development, Java or CS (blah to all of those).</p><p>In my opinion, most of the girls are much more social than guys. So, I think most of them spend more time talking to their friends than staying up till 3AM to compile FreeBSD.</p><p>The most amusing thing is, I have had a lot of foreign (and very hard working) girls in my classes, however I fail to see any of them with the geek gene.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...where everyone always talks about it because its " politically " correct or incorrect.My experience goes like this : To really know wtf you are doing , you have to spend insane amounts of time on the computer , fscking with stuff .
I 'm talking about skipping the prom or the homecoming game and trying to get the stupid fscking 8-bit western digital SCSI card to work on like version 1.x.x of Linux .
Or , trying to decipher some crazy-a $ $ code written by some drunk guy back in late 1970s by a crappy C compiler to figure out htf something is supposed to work.The point is , while I had social relationships during teenage years ( yes , I 've dated few girls ) , I have spent most of my time on the computer .
Matter of fact , I would be half asleep in school and work , and load on Jolt Coke and Mountain Dew just so I could stay up longer so I can mess with stuff on my computer.Now , I have not , ever , in my entire life , met a girl that is like that .
Matter of fact , I 've only met handful of guys that were like that .
The funny part is , all the guys that were like that actually have great jobs as lead engineers and make tons of money.Other people ( including girls I 've had in classes ) work in less interesting places either doing IT type of stuff , or doing stuff like web development , Java or CS ( blah to all of those ) .In my opinion , most of the girls are much more social than guys .
So , I think most of them spend more time talking to their friends than staying up till 3AM to compile FreeBSD.The most amusing thing is , I have had a lot of foreign ( and very hard working ) girls in my classes , however I fail to see any of them with the geek gene .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...where everyone always talks about it because its "politically" correct or incorrect.My experience goes like this: To really know wtf you are doing, you have to spend insane amounts of time on the computer, fscking with stuff.
I'm talking about skipping the prom or the homecoming game and trying to get the stupid fscking 8-bit western digital SCSI card to work on like version  1.x.x of Linux.
Or, trying to decipher some crazy-a$$ code written by some drunk guy back in late 1970s by a crappy C compiler to figure out htf something is supposed to work.The point is, while I had social relationships during teenage years (yes, I've dated few girls), I have spent most of my time on the computer.
Matter of fact, I would be half asleep in school and work, and load on Jolt Coke and Mountain Dew just so I could stay up longer so I can mess with stuff on my computer.Now, I have not, ever, in my entire life, met a girl that is like that.
Matter of fact, I've only met handful of guys that were like that.
The funny part is, all the guys that were like that actually have great jobs as lead engineers and make tons of money.Other people (including girls I've had in classes) work in less interesting places either doing IT type of stuff, or doing stuff like web development, Java or CS (blah to all of those).In my opinion, most of the girls are much more social than guys.
So, I think most of them spend more time talking to their friends than staying up till 3AM to compile FreeBSD.The most amusing thing is, I have had a lot of foreign (and very hard working) girls in my classes, however I fail to see any of them with the geek gene.
:)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480328</id>
	<title>Re:From a phsychological point of view...</title>
	<author>e2d2</author>
	<datestamp>1261049220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No No I totally agree. Also, women have an extra tendon in their leg.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No No I totally agree .
Also , women have an extra tendon in their leg .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No No I totally agree.
Also, women have an extra tendon in their leg.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479200</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480782</id>
	<title>I think a lot of women lack...</title>
	<author>mirix</author>
	<datestamp>1261051140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>the sort of innate "what makes this  tick?" mentality. As a kid, I was always taking stuff apart to see how it works, building stuff (and as I learned more) fixing stuff. <br> <br> At the same time, my sister was playing with barbies.<br> <br>You need the "knack" (as dilbert calls it) to be good with technology, be it electronic hardware or software, mechanical, etc. I find the amount of women with it to be very few and far between, I wish there were more. <br> <br>When I can't sleep, I often find myself thinking about a circuit, or how to code around a problem, etc. I just don't see many girls with this mentality, it's a shame really.</htmltext>
<tokenext>the sort of innate " what makes this tick ?
" mentality .
As a kid , I was always taking stuff apart to see how it works , building stuff ( and as I learned more ) fixing stuff .
At the same time , my sister was playing with barbies .
You need the " knack " ( as dilbert calls it ) to be good with technology , be it electronic hardware or software , mechanical , etc .
I find the amount of women with it to be very few and far between , I wish there were more .
When I ca n't sleep , I often find myself thinking about a circuit , or how to code around a problem , etc .
I just do n't see many girls with this mentality , it 's a shame really .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the sort of innate "what makes this  tick?
" mentality.
As a kid, I was always taking stuff apart to see how it works, building stuff (and as I learned more) fixing stuff.
At the same time, my sister was playing with barbies.
You need the "knack" (as dilbert calls it) to be good with technology, be it electronic hardware or software, mechanical, etc.
I find the amount of women with it to be very few and far between, I wish there were more.
When I can't sleep, I often find myself thinking about a circuit, or how to code around a problem, etc.
I just don't see many girls with this mentality, it's a shame really.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30482570</id>
	<title>company-paid pizza?????</title>
	<author>Katchu</author>
	<datestamp>1261062000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You guys get company-paid pizza??? Dang, that would be soooo cool.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You guys get company-paid pizza ? ? ?
Dang , that would be soooo cool .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You guys get company-paid pizza???
Dang, that would be soooo cool.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479384</id>
	<title>In other news..</title>
	<author>malkavian</author>
	<datestamp>1261045440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are too few men working in nurseries.  When you remove the feeding, nursing, the nappy changing and the fluffy toys, more men were happy working in the environment.<br>Where's the group that says this is global across all kinds of comp sci?  Was this a group that was primarily interested in design and light coding?  Was this a hardcore real time systems course?  What segment of the computing professional demographic was this (or, was it simply lumping a group of people in a room to "work on computers" and putting random posters around the room?).<br>There's little there that says there's any detailed methodology.  Without detailed methodology you can't exactly repeat the experiment to verify the results.  If you can't verify the results, it isn't science.<br>Also, what happened to the mix of people when presented with a variety of other jobs in exactly the same room?  Were more women drawn to the traditionally female biased work (communications based, biological, nursing/doctor)?<br>There seems to me to be little in the way of a verifiable hypothesis in this, simply a "We believe we can state this, can we put together a scenario that'll give us the results we want to say"?</p><p>Really, if I want a job, I'll put up with environments.  I'm sure homeless hostels would attract a lot more cleaners if they weren't full of needles, and excrement where the stoners couldn't use the toilet properly, but hey.. People who needs jobs still do that (I did when I needed the cash as a student, and that's exactly the conditions you can find).<br>Yes, I'd have preferred not to..  But the realities of life are that you have to get on and just do the job, if it's one you want to do.  If you feel you'd prefer to do other jobs.. Then you do..  Which is why women tend not to work in computing.. They simply prefer to do other things.  Strangely, many of those other things are ones men prefer not to do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are too few men working in nurseries .
When you remove the feeding , nursing , the nappy changing and the fluffy toys , more men were happy working in the environment.Where 's the group that says this is global across all kinds of comp sci ?
Was this a group that was primarily interested in design and light coding ?
Was this a hardcore real time systems course ?
What segment of the computing professional demographic was this ( or , was it simply lumping a group of people in a room to " work on computers " and putting random posters around the room ?
) .There 's little there that says there 's any detailed methodology .
Without detailed methodology you ca n't exactly repeat the experiment to verify the results .
If you ca n't verify the results , it is n't science.Also , what happened to the mix of people when presented with a variety of other jobs in exactly the same room ?
Were more women drawn to the traditionally female biased work ( communications based , biological , nursing/doctor ) ? There seems to me to be little in the way of a verifiable hypothesis in this , simply a " We believe we can state this , can we put together a scenario that 'll give us the results we want to say " ? Really , if I want a job , I 'll put up with environments .
I 'm sure homeless hostels would attract a lot more cleaners if they were n't full of needles , and excrement where the stoners could n't use the toilet properly , but hey.. People who needs jobs still do that ( I did when I needed the cash as a student , and that 's exactly the conditions you can find ) .Yes , I 'd have preferred not to.. But the realities of life are that you have to get on and just do the job , if it 's one you want to do .
If you feel you 'd prefer to do other jobs.. Then you do.. Which is why women tend not to work in computing.. They simply prefer to do other things .
Strangely , many of those other things are ones men prefer not to do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are too few men working in nurseries.
When you remove the feeding, nursing, the nappy changing and the fluffy toys, more men were happy working in the environment.Where's the group that says this is global across all kinds of comp sci?
Was this a group that was primarily interested in design and light coding?
Was this a hardcore real time systems course?
What segment of the computing professional demographic was this (or, was it simply lumping a group of people in a room to "work on computers" and putting random posters around the room?
).There's little there that says there's any detailed methodology.
Without detailed methodology you can't exactly repeat the experiment to verify the results.
If you can't verify the results, it isn't science.Also, what happened to the mix of people when presented with a variety of other jobs in exactly the same room?
Were more women drawn to the traditionally female biased work (communications based, biological, nursing/doctor)?There seems to me to be little in the way of a verifiable hypothesis in this, simply a "We believe we can state this, can we put together a scenario that'll give us the results we want to say"?Really, if I want a job, I'll put up with environments.
I'm sure homeless hostels would attract a lot more cleaners if they weren't full of needles, and excrement where the stoners couldn't use the toilet properly, but hey.. People who needs jobs still do that (I did when I needed the cash as a student, and that's exactly the conditions you can find).Yes, I'd have preferred not to..  But the realities of life are that you have to get on and just do the job, if it's one you want to do.
If you feel you'd prefer to do other jobs.. Then you do..  Which is why women tend not to work in computing.. They simply prefer to do other things.
Strangely, many of those other things are ones men prefer not to do.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30483926</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the same.</title>
	<author>lsdi</author>
	<datestamp>1261075140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't live in the US but H1-B's are a subject that always put me into thinking.<br>

I've been to the US from training (boeing/airbus) and for some months as a H1-B many years ago. I just wanted to learn english (which I barely do) and have some experience outside my country. Anyways, the wages paid were lower than the ones paid in my homecountry and the costs were about the same. The reason I got the H1-B was, beleive of not, because it was easier than a getting regular student visa by that time, and  I needed some kind of interaction with americans to really learn something, the student visa wouldn't get me that, I would be in a group of foreigners. Everybody know there is no such thing as shortage of workers, companies are just using that to pay lower wages and be more competitive.<br>

My point is, the US should just end the H1-B program, it is hurting not only american workers but also foreigners that are trying to have a better life in the US. But also, it should create some kind of short term, easy to get, "internship" for foreigners, just like other countries do.  In my country, there are plenty of americans that come here just for a short period of time. Not for making money, it's just a knowledge enterprise.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't live in the US but H1-B 's are a subject that always put me into thinking .
I 've been to the US from training ( boeing/airbus ) and for some months as a H1-B many years ago .
I just wanted to learn english ( which I barely do ) and have some experience outside my country .
Anyways , the wages paid were lower than the ones paid in my homecountry and the costs were about the same .
The reason I got the H1-B was , beleive of not , because it was easier than a getting regular student visa by that time , and I needed some kind of interaction with americans to really learn something , the student visa would n't get me that , I would be in a group of foreigners .
Everybody know there is no such thing as shortage of workers , companies are just using that to pay lower wages and be more competitive .
My point is , the US should just end the H1-B program , it is hurting not only american workers but also foreigners that are trying to have a better life in the US .
But also , it should create some kind of short term , easy to get , " internship " for foreigners , just like other countries do .
In my country , there are plenty of americans that come here just for a short period of time .
Not for making money , it 's just a knowledge enterprise .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't live in the US but H1-B's are a subject that always put me into thinking.
I've been to the US from training (boeing/airbus) and for some months as a H1-B many years ago.
I just wanted to learn english (which I barely do) and have some experience outside my country.
Anyways, the wages paid were lower than the ones paid in my homecountry and the costs were about the same.
The reason I got the H1-B was, beleive of not, because it was easier than a getting regular student visa by that time, and  I needed some kind of interaction with americans to really learn something, the student visa wouldn't get me that, I would be in a group of foreigners.
Everybody know there is no such thing as shortage of workers, companies are just using that to pay lower wages and be more competitive.
My point is, the US should just end the H1-B program, it is hurting not only american workers but also foreigners that are trying to have a better life in the US.
But also, it should create some kind of short term, easy to get, "internship" for foreigners, just like other countries do.
In my country, there are plenty of americans that come here just for a short period of time.
Not for making money, it's just a knowledge enterprise.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480192</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481184</id>
	<title>Re:Garbage men..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261053540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think it has more to do with difficulty getting logged in and having to come up with your third quarterly password after both kid's names and the cat's name have been used up.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it has more to do with difficulty getting logged in and having to come up with your third quarterly password after both kid 's names and the cat 's name have been used up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it has more to do with difficulty getting logged in and having to come up with your third quarterly password after both kid's names and the cat's name have been used up.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479242</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480136</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>bolthole</author>
	<datestamp>1261048440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And that's exactly it. Women dont WANT to go into the field, because they dont generally LIKE it.<br>It's the feminists who are making excuses. On the other hand, I think the majority of women, dont give a damn there are less women "in computing".</p><p>and those who do, get a job in the field. Simple, but "un-politically correct".<br>Oh, the horror.<br>"Must.. deploy... PC.. mind-reajustment.. field..."</p><p>Yes, there are some trashy insensitive guys in CS. but there are in EVERY OTHER field too!<br>So just get over the fact that there are more guys in computing than women. and go complain about something else. Like how maybe elementary school education is dominated by women.<br>yes, the pay is poor. But if anyone thinks making the pay equal to the average CS job, would magically even out the numbers.. they're nuts.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And that 's exactly it .
Women dont WANT to go into the field , because they dont generally LIKE it.It 's the feminists who are making excuses .
On the other hand , I think the majority of women , dont give a damn there are less women " in computing " .and those who do , get a job in the field .
Simple , but " un-politically correct " .Oh , the horror. " Must. .
deploy... PC.. mind-reajustment.. field... " Yes , there are some trashy insensitive guys in CS .
but there are in EVERY OTHER field too ! So just get over the fact that there are more guys in computing than women .
and go complain about something else .
Like how maybe elementary school education is dominated by women.yes , the pay is poor .
But if anyone thinks making the pay equal to the average CS job , would magically even out the numbers.. they 're nuts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And that's exactly it.
Women dont WANT to go into the field, because they dont generally LIKE it.It's the feminists who are making excuses.
On the other hand, I think the majority of women, dont give a damn there are less women "in computing".and those who do, get a job in the field.
Simple, but "un-politically correct".Oh, the horror."Must..
deploy... PC.. mind-reajustment.. field..."Yes, there are some trashy insensitive guys in CS.
but there are in EVERY OTHER field too!So just get over the fact that there are more guys in computing than women.
and go complain about something else.
Like how maybe elementary school education is dominated by women.yes, the pay is poor.
But if anyone thinks making the pay equal to the average CS job, would magically even out the numbers.. they're nuts.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30478998</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30483362</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>mkiwi</author>
	<datestamp>1261068840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Why does everything on the planet have to be "fair"... ?</p></div></blockquote><p>There are some groups in the United States who think they are the moral authority on everything.  These people are often overly politically correct, and they see their mission as Good Americans to end all the injustices they see in the world.  It is nothing more than that.</p><p>P.S. - I'm serious.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why does everything on the planet have to be " fair " ... ? There are some groups in the United States who think they are the moral authority on everything .
These people are often overly politically correct , and they see their mission as Good Americans to end all the injustices they see in the world .
It is nothing more than that.P.S .
- I 'm serious .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why does everything on the planet have to be "fair"... ?There are some groups in the United States who think they are the moral authority on everything.
These people are often overly politically correct, and they see their mission as Good Americans to end all the injustices they see in the world.
It is nothing more than that.P.S.
- I'm serious.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480090</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479404</id>
	<title>Grass is always greener</title>
	<author>syousef</author>
	<datestamp>1261045500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are still good IT jobs out there, just not as many as during the boom. Realise that other industries also go through boom and bust cycles and that you're going to have to spend time and money getting qualified in something else. If you're going to spend most of your waking hours doing something, might as well pick something you enjoy and chase the good jobs in that industry, rather than chasing jobs and industries you don't enjoy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are still good IT jobs out there , just not as many as during the boom .
Realise that other industries also go through boom and bust cycles and that you 're going to have to spend time and money getting qualified in something else .
If you 're going to spend most of your waking hours doing something , might as well pick something you enjoy and chase the good jobs in that industry , rather than chasing jobs and industries you do n't enjoy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are still good IT jobs out there, just not as many as during the boom.
Realise that other industries also go through boom and bust cycles and that you're going to have to spend time and money getting qualified in something else.
If you're going to spend most of your waking hours doing something, might as well pick something you enjoy and chase the good jobs in that industry, rather than chasing jobs and industries you don't enjoy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30485836</id>
	<title>When do you become interested?</title>
	<author>RivenAleem</author>
	<datestamp>1261144620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I first got involved in computing when I was 8yo, and typing, doing excel and tinkering with hypercard.</p><p><div class="quote"><p> a field that's globally-fungible, where entry-level salaries are declining, and it's common to think that staying up all night for a company-paid pizza is a good deal</p></div><p>Never really entered my mind at the time. It seems to me that at the time a girl would not have been encouraged to take such an interest in computing at that age, if not actively discouraged.</p><p>The time that most of us at<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. really developed our interest in things geeky were before we started noticing the fairer sex, and it would appear that we managed to bypass that altogether. I don't think that geeks tend to drive off women from the profession, I think that the initial interest is never truly engendered there to begin with.</p><p>It would be an interesting survey to ask women who have worked in computing for 5+ years, why they initially joined the profession. Then run the same survey on a comparable group of men, and compare why they are where they are.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I first got involved in computing when I was 8yo , and typing , doing excel and tinkering with hypercard .
a field that 's globally-fungible , where entry-level salaries are declining , and it 's common to think that staying up all night for a company-paid pizza is a good dealNever really entered my mind at the time .
It seems to me that at the time a girl would not have been encouraged to take such an interest in computing at that age , if not actively discouraged.The time that most of us at / .
really developed our interest in things geeky were before we started noticing the fairer sex , and it would appear that we managed to bypass that altogether .
I do n't think that geeks tend to drive off women from the profession , I think that the initial interest is never truly engendered there to begin with.It would be an interesting survey to ask women who have worked in computing for 5 + years , why they initially joined the profession .
Then run the same survey on a comparable group of men , and compare why they are where they are .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I first got involved in computing when I was 8yo, and typing, doing excel and tinkering with hypercard.
a field that's globally-fungible, where entry-level salaries are declining, and it's common to think that staying up all night for a company-paid pizza is a good dealNever really entered my mind at the time.
It seems to me that at the time a girl would not have been encouraged to take such an interest in computing at that age, if not actively discouraged.The time that most of us at /.
really developed our interest in things geeky were before we started noticing the fairer sex, and it would appear that we managed to bypass that altogether.
I don't think that geeks tend to drive off women from the profession, I think that the initial interest is never truly engendered there to begin with.It would be an interesting survey to ask women who have worked in computing for 5+ years, why they initially joined the profession.
Then run the same survey on a comparable group of men, and compare why they are where they are.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481700</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the same.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261056600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>but US law considers corporations to be citizens. Which is why corps have some much power.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>but US law considers corporations to be citizens .
Which is why corps have some much power .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>but US law considers corporations to be citizens.
Which is why corps have some much power.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480192</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30491034</id>
	<title>Re:Oh please...</title>
	<author>Have Brain Will Rent</author>
	<datestamp>1261165920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>No it's just an excuse to raise the "women are being discriminated against" straw-woman. We know the workplace demands long hours. We know the workplace demands X, Y and Z. But 1) Why is sexual discrimination the first choice to suspect and 2) why is it a problem if there are more of one sex than the other in any particular profession?</htmltext>
<tokenext>No it 's just an excuse to raise the " women are being discriminated against " straw-woman .
We know the workplace demands long hours .
We know the workplace demands X , Y and Z. But 1 ) Why is sexual discrimination the first choice to suspect and 2 ) why is it a problem if there are more of one sex than the other in any particular profession ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No it's just an excuse to raise the "women are being discriminated against" straw-woman.
We know the workplace demands long hours.
We know the workplace demands X, Y and Z. But 1) Why is sexual discrimination the first choice to suspect and 2) why is it a problem if there are more of one sex than the other in any particular profession?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479668</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479394</id>
	<title>umm yeah</title>
	<author>db10</author>
	<datestamp>1261045440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>With 15 years developing C++/.Net applications, I have run into ONE female developer that was good.  Just an observation.</htmltext>
<tokenext>With 15 years developing C + + /.Net applications , I have run into ONE female developer that was good .
Just an observation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With 15 years developing C++/.Net applications, I have run into ONE female developer that was good.
Just an observation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30482458</id>
	<title>Re:Are you kidding?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261061340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I am a girl.  Being on call all day and all night / programming until mentally exhausted / etc. is not something I am willing to do.</p></div><p>even if you werent you act like a girl.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I am a girl .
Being on call all day and all night / programming until mentally exhausted / etc .
is not something I am willing to do.even if you werent you act like a girl .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am a girl.
Being on call all day and all night / programming until mentally exhausted / etc.
is not something I am willing to do.even if you werent you act like a girl.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481378</id>
	<title>Re:Coming Right Up</title>
	<author>ObsessiveMathsFreak</author>
	<datestamp>1261054860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Yep, this one sounds like it might be even as tame as your average climategate discussion.</p></div></blockquote><p>If there's one thing geeks are good at, it's picking a postition and <i>sticking to it no matter what</i>. No matter what side is taken, the geek can provide solid -- or at least superficially solid -- evidence to support his take and can continue to argue it, indefinitely if so required, regardless of the course of the argument.</p><p>When it comes to topics with any level of subjectivity or doubt, geek arguments become farcical. Witness the conflicting positions on various technologies such as IPv6 or topics like net neutrality or even evolution. A thread around here on gender issues is like a console fanboy war, just with better grammar and spelling.</p><p>To return to the topic, my own personal opinion is that the amount of women in computer science has <i>more</i> to do with cultural reasons than biological ones. My undergraduate mathematics course has a gender ratio of about 50/50, and indeed has for several years. Given that <a href="http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/patents/knuth" title="cat-v.org">computer science is mathematics</a> [cat-v.org], I'm then inclined to believe that there are others factors than biology at play.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yep , this one sounds like it might be even as tame as your average climategate discussion.If there 's one thing geeks are good at , it 's picking a postition and sticking to it no matter what .
No matter what side is taken , the geek can provide solid -- or at least superficially solid -- evidence to support his take and can continue to argue it , indefinitely if so required , regardless of the course of the argument.When it comes to topics with any level of subjectivity or doubt , geek arguments become farcical .
Witness the conflicting positions on various technologies such as IPv6 or topics like net neutrality or even evolution .
A thread around here on gender issues is like a console fanboy war , just with better grammar and spelling.To return to the topic , my own personal opinion is that the amount of women in computer science has more to do with cultural reasons than biological ones .
My undergraduate mathematics course has a gender ratio of about 50/50 , and indeed has for several years .
Given that computer science is mathematics [ cat-v.org ] , I 'm then inclined to believe that there are others factors than biology at play .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yep, this one sounds like it might be even as tame as your average climategate discussion.If there's one thing geeks are good at, it's picking a postition and sticking to it no matter what.
No matter what side is taken, the geek can provide solid -- or at least superficially solid -- evidence to support his take and can continue to argue it, indefinitely if so required, regardless of the course of the argument.When it comes to topics with any level of subjectivity or doubt, geek arguments become farcical.
Witness the conflicting positions on various technologies such as IPv6 or topics like net neutrality or even evolution.
A thread around here on gender issues is like a console fanboy war, just with better grammar and spelling.To return to the topic, my own personal opinion is that the amount of women in computer science has more to do with cultural reasons than biological ones.
My undergraduate mathematics course has a gender ratio of about 50/50, and indeed has for several years.
Given that computer science is mathematics [cat-v.org], I'm then inclined to believe that there are others factors than biology at play.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30478988</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30486486</id>
	<title>Re:From a phsychological point of view...</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1261148220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Is there anyone who is not aware that that raising your voice, shaking your head, pointing fingers, crossing arms etc are expressions of emotional behaviors?</p></div><p>Is there anyone who is not aware that raising the <em>pitch</em> of your voice, narrowing your eyes, tapping fingers, rooting around in a purse for things you don't need instead of listening are expressions of emotional behaviors? Women are just as guilty of negative emotional expression as men, the signs simply tend to be less obvious. And often, they will point to these nonverbal cues in men as if they were the only ones using them, which is of course not just a lie, but a lie only an idiot would believe.</p><p>I'm not arguing that women are more prone to use such cues to attempt to control emotions in order to domination a conversation by eliciting known responses, I don't have any such statistics. But I've seen women do it and then claim that you're the only one doing it and therefore they cannot talk to you "when you're like this" <em>time and time again</em>. I suspect most of them are unaware that they're communicating on this level, so the irony escapes them entirely. I'm 6'7", so a postural shift that might barely be noticable on a 5'5" woman is like a fucking semaphore. But this is the same tactics that bullies in school use to get the easily emotionally excited students in trouble in class, and to see it claimed that men are the ones responsible for this sort of thing is fucking ridiculous at best.</p><p>Speaking of posture, did you know that it's considered objectionable for a man to stand over a woman at her desk in California, but not for a woman to do it to a man? This is not how you produce equality.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is there anyone who is not aware that that raising your voice , shaking your head , pointing fingers , crossing arms etc are expressions of emotional behaviors ? Is there anyone who is not aware that raising the pitch of your voice , narrowing your eyes , tapping fingers , rooting around in a purse for things you do n't need instead of listening are expressions of emotional behaviors ?
Women are just as guilty of negative emotional expression as men , the signs simply tend to be less obvious .
And often , they will point to these nonverbal cues in men as if they were the only ones using them , which is of course not just a lie , but a lie only an idiot would believe.I 'm not arguing that women are more prone to use such cues to attempt to control emotions in order to domination a conversation by eliciting known responses , I do n't have any such statistics .
But I 've seen women do it and then claim that you 're the only one doing it and therefore they can not talk to you " when you 're like this " time and time again .
I suspect most of them are unaware that they 're communicating on this level , so the irony escapes them entirely .
I 'm 6'7 " , so a postural shift that might barely be noticable on a 5'5 " woman is like a fucking semaphore .
But this is the same tactics that bullies in school use to get the easily emotionally excited students in trouble in class , and to see it claimed that men are the ones responsible for this sort of thing is fucking ridiculous at best.Speaking of posture , did you know that it 's considered objectionable for a man to stand over a woman at her desk in California , but not for a woman to do it to a man ?
This is not how you produce equality .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is there anyone who is not aware that that raising your voice, shaking your head, pointing fingers, crossing arms etc are expressions of emotional behaviors?Is there anyone who is not aware that raising the pitch of your voice, narrowing your eyes, tapping fingers, rooting around in a purse for things you don't need instead of listening are expressions of emotional behaviors?
Women are just as guilty of negative emotional expression as men, the signs simply tend to be less obvious.
And often, they will point to these nonverbal cues in men as if they were the only ones using them, which is of course not just a lie, but a lie only an idiot would believe.I'm not arguing that women are more prone to use such cues to attempt to control emotions in order to domination a conversation by eliciting known responses, I don't have any such statistics.
But I've seen women do it and then claim that you're the only one doing it and therefore they cannot talk to you "when you're like this" time and time again.
I suspect most of them are unaware that they're communicating on this level, so the irony escapes them entirely.
I'm 6'7", so a postural shift that might barely be noticable on a 5'5" woman is like a fucking semaphore.
But this is the same tactics that bullies in school use to get the easily emotionally excited students in trouble in class, and to see it claimed that men are the ones responsible for this sort of thing is fucking ridiculous at best.Speaking of posture, did you know that it's considered objectionable for a man to stand over a woman at her desk in California, but not for a woman to do it to a man?
This is not how you produce equality.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480400</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30484932</id>
	<title>Re:I am seeing it.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261132500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>So you'd rather there be unlicensed doctors operating on patients, unlicensed pharmacists giving out drugs, and unlicensed engineers building bridges?</htmltext>
<tokenext>So you 'd rather there be unlicensed doctors operating on patients , unlicensed pharmacists giving out drugs , and unlicensed engineers building bridges ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So you'd rather there be unlicensed doctors operating on patients, unlicensed pharmacists giving out drugs, and unlicensed engineers building bridges?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480152</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30482308</id>
	<title>Yeah sure.</title>
	<author>jotaeleemeese</author>
	<datestamp>1261060260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The first wave of programmers were mostly women for many historical reasons.</p><p>As soon as their male bosses and peers realised they were creating this "equality monster" they began to make sure women no longer accessed positions of responsibility in technical jobs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The first wave of programmers were mostly women for many historical reasons.As soon as their male bosses and peers realised they were creating this " equality monster " they began to make sure women no longer accessed positions of responsibility in technical jobs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The first wave of programmers were mostly women for many historical reasons.As soon as their male bosses and peers realised they were creating this "equality monster" they began to make sure women no longer accessed positions of responsibility in technical jobs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481228</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480400</id>
	<title>Re:From a phsychological point of view...</title>
	<author>clovis</author>
	<datestamp>1261049460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Women act more based on emotions and feelings than guys do, whereas guys will act on logic and black &amp; white facts</p><p>Nope.<br>I used to think this 40 years ago, which is about when I started my IT career (with 8 years off to teach physics.)<br>My observation is that in general, men are much much more likely to get emotional in a business setting when there are differences of opinion. The way that they express emotion, from raised voices, blustering, filibustering to even stomping out of the room are somehow found to be socially acceptable. Men are the first to start emoting and are often the only ones. I've found that it is quite rare for a female to express emotion while in a business/professional setting and usually only after extreme provocation. On the other hand, it's almost a matter of course for men, especially those in or seeking to be management.</p><p>Is there anyone who is not aware that that raising your voice, shaking your head, pointing fingers, crossing arms etc are expressions of emotional behaviors?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Women act more based on emotions and feelings than guys do , whereas guys will act on logic and black &amp; white factsNope.I used to think this 40 years ago , which is about when I started my IT career ( with 8 years off to teach physics .
) My observation is that in general , men are much much more likely to get emotional in a business setting when there are differences of opinion .
The way that they express emotion , from raised voices , blustering , filibustering to even stomping out of the room are somehow found to be socially acceptable .
Men are the first to start emoting and are often the only ones .
I 've found that it is quite rare for a female to express emotion while in a business/professional setting and usually only after extreme provocation .
On the other hand , it 's almost a matter of course for men , especially those in or seeking to be management.Is there anyone who is not aware that that raising your voice , shaking your head , pointing fingers , crossing arms etc are expressions of emotional behaviors ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Women act more based on emotions and feelings than guys do, whereas guys will act on logic and black &amp; white factsNope.I used to think this 40 years ago, which is about when I started my IT career (with 8 years off to teach physics.
)My observation is that in general, men are much much more likely to get emotional in a business setting when there are differences of opinion.
The way that they express emotion, from raised voices, blustering, filibustering to even stomping out of the room are somehow found to be socially acceptable.
Men are the first to start emoting and are often the only ones.
I've found that it is quite rare for a female to express emotion while in a business/professional setting and usually only after extreme provocation.
On the other hand, it's almost a matter of course for men, especially those in or seeking to be management.Is there anyone who is not aware that that raising your voice, shaking your head, pointing fingers, crossing arms etc are expressions of emotional behaviors?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479200</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30482718</id>
	<title>Re:Men aren&rsquo;t so dumb...</title>
	<author>droopycom</author>
	<datestamp>1261063200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Men seem to be more willing to work silly hours for pizza than women.</p></div><p>I really think it would be the other way around:</p><p>Men would be more willing to work silly hours for women than pizza...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Men seem to be more willing to work silly hours for pizza than women.I really think it would be the other way around : Men would be more willing to work silly hours for women than pizza.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Men seem to be more willing to work silly hours for pizza than women.I really think it would be the other way around:Men would be more willing to work silly hours for women than pizza...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479332</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479562</id>
	<title>Personal experience</title>
	<author>O'Nazareth</author>
	<datestamp>1261045980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I'll just recite what I know from my own experience</p></div><p>I do not think that personal experience plays in the same yard as science.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll just recite what I know from my own experienceI do not think that personal experience plays in the same yard as science .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll just recite what I know from my own experienceI do not think that personal experience plays in the same yard as science.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479160</id>
	<title>It's a matter of fun</title>
	<author>volongoto</author>
	<datestamp>1261044660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Boys grow up with computer games and at some point they get curious about how all that stuff is possible. I think that's the main motive lying behind men dominating the field.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Boys grow up with computer games and at some point they get curious about how all that stuff is possible .
I think that 's the main motive lying behind men dominating the field .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Boys grow up with computer games and at some point they get curious about how all that stuff is possible.
I think that's the main motive lying behind men dominating the field.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30482086</id>
	<title>He,he, he.</title>
	<author>jotaeleemeese</author>
	<datestamp>1261058820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How do I deride allegations of sexism? By doing a sexist rant.</p><p>Well done AC, well done.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How do I deride allegations of sexism ?
By doing a sexist rant.Well done AC , well done .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How do I deride allegations of sexism?
By doing a sexist rant.Well done AC, well done.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479438</id>
	<title>Logic</title>
	<author>linu77</author>
	<datestamp>1261045560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>The most important skill you need to have in IT is to have a logical mind and let&rsquo;s face it logic is not something most Women have.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The most important skill you need to have in IT is to have a logical mind and let    s face it logic is not something most Women have .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The most important skill you need to have in IT is to have a logical mind and let’s face it logic is not something most Women have.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30482442</id>
	<title>Society itself</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261061280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A lot of it has to do with society itself. Right now its still more of the "norm" for men to do certain jobs and women to do other jobs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A lot of it has to do with society itself .
Right now its still more of the " norm " for men to do certain jobs and women to do other jobs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A lot of it has to do with society itself.
Right now its still more of the "norm" for men to do certain jobs and women to do other jobs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481972</id>
	<title>Explained: It's Asperger's</title>
	<author>w0mprat</author>
	<datestamp>1261058160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Males are four to five times more likely to Autism Spectrum Disorders including Asperger syndrome than females. Conincidence?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Males are four to five times more likely to Autism Spectrum Disorders including Asperger syndrome than females .
Conincidence ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Males are four to five times more likely to Autism Spectrum Disorders including Asperger syndrome than females.
Conincidence?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479000</id>
	<title>Let's make a deal</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261044120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Company-paid pizza <strong>and</strong> a soda, or fix it yourself.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Company-paid pizza and a soda , or fix it yourself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Company-paid pizza and a soda, or fix it yourself.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479770</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>Trepidity</author>
	<datestamp>1261046760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are there really? I don't know of many well-paying tech jobs with "sane work hours", at least the way most fields define the term (40-hour weeks, only weekend/overtime work when there's emergencies, and emergencies don't happen every month).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are there really ?
I do n't know of many well-paying tech jobs with " sane work hours " , at least the way most fields define the term ( 40-hour weeks , only weekend/overtime work when there 's emergencies , and emergencies do n't happen every month ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are there really?
I don't know of many well-paying tech jobs with "sane work hours", at least the way most fields define the term (40-hour weeks, only weekend/overtime work when there's emergencies, and emergencies don't happen every month).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30478998</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479738</id>
	<title>Re:The blue collar job of the digital age</title>
	<author>molecular</author>
	<datestamp>1261046640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"behind the screen, wanting for a change"?</p><p>If any substantial change will happen, it will be in the programming of our computers. And who, other than you, behind that screen, would be able to implement that change?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" behind the screen , wanting for a change " ? If any substantial change will happen , it will be in the programming of our computers .
And who , other than you , behind that screen , would be able to implement that change ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"behind the screen, wanting for a change"?If any substantial change will happen, it will be in the programming of our computers.
And who, other than you, behind that screen, would be able to implement that change?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479308</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479254</id>
	<title>Depends on the Pizza</title>
	<author>tjstork</author>
	<datestamp>1261044960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I mean, pizza is pretty good. I'm waiting for an assault rifle benefit.  Like, if we make our sprint goals, everyone on the project team gets an assault rifle.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I mean , pizza is pretty good .
I 'm waiting for an assault rifle benefit .
Like , if we make our sprint goals , everyone on the project team gets an assault rifle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I mean, pizza is pretty good.
I'm waiting for an assault rifle benefit.
Like, if we make our sprint goals, everyone on the project team gets an assault rifle.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480524</id>
	<title>staying awake and free pizza</title>
	<author>mehrotra.akash</author>
	<datestamp>1261049880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So I get to stay awake all night with computers AND get free pizza..<br>What else do you need?</p><p>(Oh, and the salaries are declining due to excessive pizza eating so it does kind of balance out)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So I get to stay awake all night with computers AND get free pizza..What else do you need ?
( Oh , and the salaries are declining due to excessive pizza eating so it does kind of balance out )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So I get to stay awake all night with computers AND get free pizza..What else do you need?
(Oh, and the salaries are declining due to excessive pizza eating so it does kind of balance out)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479034</id>
	<title>Men aren&rsquo;t so dumb...</title>
	<author>clone53421</author>
	<datestamp>1261044240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you&rsquo;re doing something you enjoy, you&rsquo;re getting paid what you consider a reasonable recompense for your performance, and you stay up all night anyway... how is free pizza not a good deal?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you    re doing something you enjoy , you    re getting paid what you consider a reasonable recompense for your performance , and you stay up all night anyway... how is free pizza not a good deal ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you’re doing something you enjoy, you’re getting paid what you consider a reasonable recompense for your performance, and you stay up all night anyway... how is free pizza not a good deal?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479020</id>
	<title>Cue The Moral Outrage</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261044180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Cue the moral outrage for a person promulgating deragatory gender stereotypes.</p><p>Wait, it is a woman?  Nevermind.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Cue the moral outrage for a person promulgating deragatory gender stereotypes.Wait , it is a woman ?
Nevermind .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cue the moral outrage for a person promulgating deragatory gender stereotypes.Wait, it is a woman?
Nevermind.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30492690</id>
	<title>Re:Coming Right Up</title>
	<author>DavidTC</author>
	<datestamp>1261128840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Computer <b>science</b> is math.</p><p>
That doesn't mean what they actually teach in schools under the guise of computer science is, in fact, math.</p><p>
It is programming, which is closer to design work. (Or very lackadaisical engineering, if you prefer. Engineering without any math, just drawing how things get screwed together and whatnot.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Computer science is math .
That does n't mean what they actually teach in schools under the guise of computer science is , in fact , math .
It is programming , which is closer to design work .
( Or very lackadaisical engineering , if you prefer .
Engineering without any math , just drawing how things get screwed together and whatnot .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Computer science is math.
That doesn't mean what they actually teach in schools under the guise of computer science is, in fact, math.
It is programming, which is closer to design work.
(Or very lackadaisical engineering, if you prefer.
Engineering without any math, just drawing how things get screwed together and whatnot.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481378</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30482238</id>
	<title>Re:Men aren&rsquo;t so dumb...</title>
	<author>BeanThere</author>
	<datestamp>1261059660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Men are also more inclined to pretty much give up their personal life to go into higher management, whereas women prefer to forego a career in favour of working part-time.</p></div><p>Because women really deep down just wanna 'make home', while men really deep down just wanna get away from the nagging wife a bit<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;) (I keed I keed, mods don't kill me)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Men are also more inclined to pretty much give up their personal life to go into higher management , whereas women prefer to forego a career in favour of working part-time.Because women really deep down just wan na 'make home ' , while men really deep down just wan na get away from the nagging wife a bit ; ) ( I keed I keed , mods do n't kill me )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Men are also more inclined to pretty much give up their personal life to go into higher management, whereas women prefer to forego a career in favour of working part-time.Because women really deep down just wanna 'make home', while men really deep down just wanna get away from the nagging wife a bit ;) (I keed I keed, mods don't kill me)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479332</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30483390</id>
	<title>Re:From a phsychological point of view...</title>
	<author>Keen Anthony</author>
	<datestamp>1261069020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would say that your argument is based on old school male vs female issues, the thinking of '70s and '80s era therapist/self-help book authors. It effectively became a way of justifying pigeon-holing males and females into specific gender roles and occupations by saying that men, real men, should pursue more financially rewarding jobs like lawyer, stock broker, etc, instead of becoming say, artists. Likewise, women should not want to become corporate executives. They can do it sure, but women are not predisposed to it, and so naturally face a severe uphill climb. Thus, it would be more worthwhile for women to pursue more caregiver-oriented roles like educator, nurse, therapist, etc. I believe it is from this same block of thought that we get the notion that all women have natural mothering instincts and that men cannot be fit single parents.</p><p>Has there ever been any real science proving that women act more on emotions than guys? Or that men are more logical?</p><p>I would say that if there is a shortage of women in their 30s in computer science, it's because when I was a kid, my sister and her friends were given easy bake ovens, fashion-based board games, dolls with hair you can style, and other "girly" toys, whereas I was given Atari, Merlin, Zork, and other electronic toys that inspired an interest in electronics and making things go beep. I can't explain any shortage of 20-something females in the field.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would say that your argument is based on old school male vs female issues , the thinking of '70s and '80s era therapist/self-help book authors .
It effectively became a way of justifying pigeon-holing males and females into specific gender roles and occupations by saying that men , real men , should pursue more financially rewarding jobs like lawyer , stock broker , etc , instead of becoming say , artists .
Likewise , women should not want to become corporate executives .
They can do it sure , but women are not predisposed to it , and so naturally face a severe uphill climb .
Thus , it would be more worthwhile for women to pursue more caregiver-oriented roles like educator , nurse , therapist , etc .
I believe it is from this same block of thought that we get the notion that all women have natural mothering instincts and that men can not be fit single parents.Has there ever been any real science proving that women act more on emotions than guys ?
Or that men are more logical ? I would say that if there is a shortage of women in their 30s in computer science , it 's because when I was a kid , my sister and her friends were given easy bake ovens , fashion-based board games , dolls with hair you can style , and other " girly " toys , whereas I was given Atari , Merlin , Zork , and other electronic toys that inspired an interest in electronics and making things go beep .
I ca n't explain any shortage of 20-something females in the field .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would say that your argument is based on old school male vs female issues, the thinking of '70s and '80s era therapist/self-help book authors.
It effectively became a way of justifying pigeon-holing males and females into specific gender roles and occupations by saying that men, real men, should pursue more financially rewarding jobs like lawyer, stock broker, etc, instead of becoming say, artists.
Likewise, women should not want to become corporate executives.
They can do it sure, but women are not predisposed to it, and so naturally face a severe uphill climb.
Thus, it would be more worthwhile for women to pursue more caregiver-oriented roles like educator, nurse, therapist, etc.
I believe it is from this same block of thought that we get the notion that all women have natural mothering instincts and that men cannot be fit single parents.Has there ever been any real science proving that women act more on emotions than guys?
Or that men are more logical?I would say that if there is a shortage of women in their 30s in computer science, it's because when I was a kid, my sister and her friends were given easy bake ovens, fashion-based board games, dolls with hair you can style, and other "girly" toys, whereas I was given Atari, Merlin, Zork, and other electronic toys that inspired an interest in electronics and making things go beep.
I can't explain any shortage of 20-something females in the field.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479200</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480764</id>
	<title>Re:And how would one count Lynn Conway... ;)</title>
	<author>Arthur Grumbine</author>
	<datestamp>1261051080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>And how would one count Lynn Conway...:)</p></div><p>One at a time, just like everyone else. Unless she has multiple personality disorder - in which case we'll count her as two, but that's just because we love her so.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And how would one count Lynn Conway... : ) One at a time , just like everyone else .
Unless she has multiple personality disorder - in which case we 'll count her as two , but that 's just because we love her so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And how would one count Lynn Conway...:)One at a time, just like everyone else.
Unless she has multiple personality disorder - in which case we'll count her as two, but that's just because we love her so.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479084</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30478970</id>
	<title>too many everyone</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261044000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I need a job.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I need a job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I need a job.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481820</id>
	<title>Re:I am seeing it.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261057140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But we owe it to every employer to not only work full time, but to continue working after hours at our expense for this continuous self-improvement in the name of productivity. When will this capitalism die already?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But we owe it to every employer to not only work full time , but to continue working after hours at our expense for this continuous self-improvement in the name of productivity .
When will this capitalism die already ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But we owe it to every employer to not only work full time, but to continue working after hours at our expense for this continuous self-improvement in the name of productivity.
When will this capitalism die already?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479446</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479510</id>
	<title>more misandry from the media</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261045800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>yuck.  both links are loaded with it. the articles imply that skillset and mastery should take second place to feminizing the workplace enough so that women won't have to adapt?  kiss my ass. the day that consensus trumps truth and emotions trump reason in the IT world is the day the internet epic fales.  Feminism has gotten out of control. Women don't realize that men have the personalities and attributes they have precisely BECAUSE of objective reality.  To throw some irony into this, women have SELECTED for these traits in men over what? millions of years? more?  Feminizing IT or any technology/science field for the sake of 'community cohesion' stultifies the very truth deriving processes that make them worthwhile.</p><p>There's a reason many geeks aren't strong on the social skills scale: their brains aren't wired there.. they're wired to systemize not socialize which is the feminine counterpart. No, I'm not claiming extreme dichotomies, but the biases ARE there.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>"Women too smart for careers with computers,"'</p></div><p>Wow seriously? SERIOUSLY? Has it really become THIS BLATANT?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>"boys" are stupid enough to go into a field that's globally-fungible, where entry-level salaries are declining, and it's common to think that staying up all night for a company-paid pizza is a good deal.'"</p></div><p>so let me get this straight. It's no longer ok for a male to be a bit socially atypical in return for wizardry in his field when it 'offends' a female, but it's blatantly ok to stereotype him to the nth degree?</p><p>These authors deserve a beatdown...or sympathy because their shrewish, overbearing mothers psychologically castrated their fathers early in life.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>yuck .
both links are loaded with it .
the articles imply that skillset and mastery should take second place to feminizing the workplace enough so that women wo n't have to adapt ?
kiss my ass .
the day that consensus trumps truth and emotions trump reason in the IT world is the day the internet epic fales .
Feminism has gotten out of control .
Women do n't realize that men have the personalities and attributes they have precisely BECAUSE of objective reality .
To throw some irony into this , women have SELECTED for these traits in men over what ?
millions of years ?
more ? Feminizing IT or any technology/science field for the sake of 'community cohesion ' stultifies the very truth deriving processes that make them worthwhile.There 's a reason many geeks are n't strong on the social skills scale : their brains are n't wired there.. they 're wired to systemize not socialize which is the feminine counterpart .
No , I 'm not claiming extreme dichotomies , but the biases ARE there .
" Women too smart for careers with computers , " 'Wow seriously ?
SERIOUSLY ? Has it really become THIS BLATANT ?
" boys " are stupid enough to go into a field that 's globally-fungible , where entry-level salaries are declining , and it 's common to think that staying up all night for a company-paid pizza is a good deal .
' " so let me get this straight .
It 's no longer ok for a male to be a bit socially atypical in return for wizardry in his field when it 'offends ' a female , but it 's blatantly ok to stereotype him to the nth degree ? These authors deserve a beatdown...or sympathy because their shrewish , overbearing mothers psychologically castrated their fathers early in life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>yuck.
both links are loaded with it.
the articles imply that skillset and mastery should take second place to feminizing the workplace enough so that women won't have to adapt?
kiss my ass.
the day that consensus trumps truth and emotions trump reason in the IT world is the day the internet epic fales.
Feminism has gotten out of control.
Women don't realize that men have the personalities and attributes they have precisely BECAUSE of objective reality.
To throw some irony into this, women have SELECTED for these traits in men over what?
millions of years?
more?  Feminizing IT or any technology/science field for the sake of 'community cohesion' stultifies the very truth deriving processes that make them worthwhile.There's a reason many geeks aren't strong on the social skills scale: their brains aren't wired there.. they're wired to systemize not socialize which is the feminine counterpart.
No, I'm not claiming extreme dichotomies, but the biases ARE there.
"Women too smart for careers with computers,"'Wow seriously?
SERIOUSLY? Has it really become THIS BLATANT?
"boys" are stupid enough to go into a field that's globally-fungible, where entry-level salaries are declining, and it's common to think that staying up all night for a company-paid pizza is a good deal.
'"so let me get this straight.
It's no longer ok for a male to be a bit socially atypical in return for wizardry in his field when it 'offends' a female, but it's blatantly ok to stereotype him to the nth degree?These authors deserve a beatdown...or sympathy because their shrewish, overbearing mothers psychologically castrated their fathers early in life.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30493644</id>
	<title>Re:From a phsychological point of view...</title>
	<author>DavidTC</author>
	<datestamp>1261132860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh, good grief, people are actually arguing using those idiotic term.</p><p>
Men are <b>mechanical</b> problem solvers. Women are <b>social</b> problems solvers. That's how they solve problems.</p><p>
They both do it <b>logically</b>. You can't actually solve problems by being 'emotional'.</p><p>
Acting like social problems, or that attempting to solve social problems without using force, are 'emotional' is just stupid.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh , good grief , people are actually arguing using those idiotic term .
Men are mechanical problem solvers .
Women are social problems solvers .
That 's how they solve problems .
They both do it logically .
You ca n't actually solve problems by being 'emotional' .
Acting like social problems , or that attempting to solve social problems without using force , are 'emotional ' is just stupid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh, good grief, people are actually arguing using those idiotic term.
Men are mechanical problem solvers.
Women are social problems solvers.
That's how they solve problems.
They both do it logically.
You can't actually solve problems by being 'emotional'.
Acting like social problems, or that attempting to solve social problems without using force, are 'emotional' is just stupid.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479590</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479218</id>
	<title>Re:Cue The Moral Outrage</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261044840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A woman named Cameron, eh?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A woman named Cameron , eh ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A woman named Cameron, eh?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479020</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481390</id>
	<title>Re:Oh please...</title>
	<author>ncohafmuta</author>
	<datestamp>1261054980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>it's not sexism, it's simply a job where more men thrive than women, for obvious reasons. IT is a field based primarily on logic. a greater percentage of men are logical than women.<br>it's like someone else said with babysitting. that's a highly emotional job. which is why women tend to be better at it.<br>next thing they'll say is there's not enough black-over-40-used-to-be-a-man-originally-from-the-arctic-circle IT people.</p><p>-Tony</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>it 's not sexism , it 's simply a job where more men thrive than women , for obvious reasons .
IT is a field based primarily on logic .
a greater percentage of men are logical than women.it 's like someone else said with babysitting .
that 's a highly emotional job .
which is why women tend to be better at it.next thing they 'll say is there 's not enough black-over-40-used-to-be-a-man-originally-from-the-arctic-circle IT people.-Tony</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it's not sexism, it's simply a job where more men thrive than women, for obvious reasons.
IT is a field based primarily on logic.
a greater percentage of men are logical than women.it's like someone else said with babysitting.
that's a highly emotional job.
which is why women tend to be better at it.next thing they'll say is there's not enough black-over-40-used-to-be-a-man-originally-from-the-arctic-circle IT people.-Tony</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479668</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30484290</id>
	<title>Re:I am seeing it.</title>
	<author>Canberra Bob</author>
	<datestamp>1261166940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just because someone loves working with technology does not mean they are good at it.  Just because someone works just to pay their bills (and hopefully a bit extra) doesn't mean they are bad at what they do.  This is true in some instances, however I have also come across some people who love technology who I would hate working with and quite a number of others who wouldn't spend any extra time in front of a computer than they had to but who are fantastic at their job.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just because someone loves working with technology does not mean they are good at it .
Just because someone works just to pay their bills ( and hopefully a bit extra ) does n't mean they are bad at what they do .
This is true in some instances , however I have also come across some people who love technology who I would hate working with and quite a number of others who would n't spend any extra time in front of a computer than they had to but who are fantastic at their job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just because someone loves working with technology does not mean they are good at it.
Just because someone works just to pay their bills (and hopefully a bit extra) doesn't mean they are bad at what they do.
This is true in some instances, however I have also come across some people who love technology who I would hate working with and quite a number of others who wouldn't spend any extra time in front of a computer than they had to but who are fantastic at their job.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481534</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479996</id>
	<title>Re:Oh please...</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1261047780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Who gives a damn if women don't work in IT?</i> </p><p>Women.</p><p>Because they won't have a direct part in IT decision making.</p><p>Because it reinforces stereotypes of the geek that are in no way helpful in the workplace.</p><p>Management.</p><p>Take pity on the guy who has to referee conflicts between a thousand-strong [female] clerical staff and IT.</p><p>The geek - again stereotypically - tends to be a top-down, my-way-or-the-highway kind of thinker.</p><p> Who can be very surprised when he meets resistance at ground level.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Who gives a damn if women do n't work in IT ?
Women.Because they wo n't have a direct part in IT decision making.Because it reinforces stereotypes of the geek that are in no way helpful in the workplace.Management.Take pity on the guy who has to referee conflicts between a thousand-strong [ female ] clerical staff and IT.The geek - again stereotypically - tends to be a top-down , my-way-or-the-highway kind of thinker .
Who can be very surprised when he meets resistance at ground level .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who gives a damn if women don't work in IT?
Women.Because they won't have a direct part in IT decision making.Because it reinforces stereotypes of the geek that are in no way helpful in the workplace.Management.Take pity on the guy who has to referee conflicts between a thousand-strong [female] clerical staff and IT.The geek - again stereotypically - tends to be a top-down, my-way-or-the-highway kind of thinker.
Who can be very surprised when he meets resistance at ground level.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479926</id>
	<title>Re:Garbage men..</title>
	<author>ZombieRoboNinja</author>
	<datestamp>1261047540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;&gt;Odd we don't see many stories about the global shortage in female garbage collectors. Or janitors... Women aren't in computers because they tend not to be interested in it.</p><p>Is the implication that men love being janitors and garbage collectors?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; &gt; Odd we do n't see many stories about the global shortage in female garbage collectors .
Or janitors... Women are n't in computers because they tend not to be interested in it.Is the implication that men love being janitors and garbage collectors ?
; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;&gt;Odd we don't see many stories about the global shortage in female garbage collectors.
Or janitors... Women aren't in computers because they tend not to be interested in it.Is the implication that men love being janitors and garbage collectors?
;-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479242</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480274</id>
	<title>Re:Oh please...</title>
	<author>LesFerg</author>
	<datestamp>1261048980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's a wonderfully short sighted attitude you have there.  My wife spent a year in training and getting certified in IT.  She then started to work in what should have been an enjoyable and promising career, only to find very shortly that the attitudes of people she was working with/for put her off IT altogether.  She was never incapable, she could investigate and implement a solution as well as anybody I have worked with in 20 years of IT.</p><p>Management would simply not assign a female to a technical job if they had a male available to give the task to.  You can deny and sputter and posture all you like, but overall, that is the most common situation you will encounter.  In the year or two my wife tried to get into IT, she was kept on the sidelines of the interesting or challenging work, while being dumped with all the support jobs, cos women are, like, really good at handling phone calls and stuff, you know.</p><p>Now she wouldn't go near an IT role again (but ironically has to depend on young inexperienced males for IT support in her current job).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's a wonderfully short sighted attitude you have there .
My wife spent a year in training and getting certified in IT .
She then started to work in what should have been an enjoyable and promising career , only to find very shortly that the attitudes of people she was working with/for put her off IT altogether .
She was never incapable , she could investigate and implement a solution as well as anybody I have worked with in 20 years of IT.Management would simply not assign a female to a technical job if they had a male available to give the task to .
You can deny and sputter and posture all you like , but overall , that is the most common situation you will encounter .
In the year or two my wife tried to get into IT , she was kept on the sidelines of the interesting or challenging work , while being dumped with all the support jobs , cos women are , like , really good at handling phone calls and stuff , you know.Now she would n't go near an IT role again ( but ironically has to depend on young inexperienced males for IT support in her current job ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's a wonderfully short sighted attitude you have there.
My wife spent a year in training and getting certified in IT.
She then started to work in what should have been an enjoyable and promising career, only to find very shortly that the attitudes of people she was working with/for put her off IT altogether.
She was never incapable, she could investigate and implement a solution as well as anybody I have worked with in 20 years of IT.Management would simply not assign a female to a technical job if they had a male available to give the task to.
You can deny and sputter and posture all you like, but overall, that is the most common situation you will encounter.
In the year or two my wife tried to get into IT, she was kept on the sidelines of the interesting or challenging work, while being dumped with all the support jobs, cos women are, like, really good at handling phone calls and stuff, you know.Now she wouldn't go near an IT role again (but ironically has to depend on young inexperienced males for IT support in her current job).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480468</id>
	<title>Flight of the Conchords</title>
	<author>gpmanrpi</author>
	<datestamp>1261049700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think what we need to watch out for is Australians:<br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-EN8dpAvBw" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-EN8dpAvBw</a> [youtube.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think what we need to watch out for is Australians : http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = i-EN8dpAvBw [ youtube.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think what we need to watch out for is Australians:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-EN8dpAvBw [youtube.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30485648</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>Vexar</author>
	<datestamp>1261142820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yay!  You are like a few of my female associates in the field.  Please give strong consideration to speak at grade schools about your career.  You are the kind of leader that young women need.  I admire your spirit and accomplishments.  Please don't ever lose sight of that.  I suspect you don't even need the encouragement, but I'm writing it anyway.  Feminists are not suffragettes.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yay !
You are like a few of my female associates in the field .
Please give strong consideration to speak at grade schools about your career .
You are the kind of leader that young women need .
I admire your spirit and accomplishments .
Please do n't ever lose sight of that .
I suspect you do n't even need the encouragement , but I 'm writing it anyway .
Feminists are not suffragettes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yay!
You are like a few of my female associates in the field.
Please give strong consideration to speak at grade schools about your career.
You are the kind of leader that young women need.
I admire your spirit and accomplishments.
Please don't ever lose sight of that.
I suspect you don't even need the encouragement, but I'm writing it anyway.
Feminists are not suffragettes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481544</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479820</id>
	<title>And you're going to go where?</title>
	<author>Overzeetop</author>
	<datestamp>1261047000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You've just described most professional jobs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 've just described most professional jobs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You've just described most professional jobs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480544</id>
	<title>Re:Are you kidding?</title>
	<author>darkwing\_bmf</author>
	<datestamp>1261050000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sounds like you just described teaching. Become a Software Engineer, not a programmer, if you want good hours.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds like you just described teaching .
Become a Software Engineer , not a programmer , if you want good hours .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds like you just described teaching.
Become a Software Engineer, not a programmer, if you want good hours.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481470</id>
	<title>Re:Oh please...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261055460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Can we get over this whole sexism bullshit already? Who gives a damn if women don't work in IT? If a woman wants to do something in IT, fine. If she doesn't, fine. If you want to look for gender-based discrimination, look elsewhere.</p></div></blockquote><p>This topic is going to keep coming up for years. I know I'm going to offend the more professional IT guys, but I see many, many similarities between the IT mindset and the mindset of an auto mechanic.</p><p>Many men enjoy their relationship with machines. Presented with a machine that is non-functional, they identify the fault and repair it to like-new operation. This gives a profoundly gratifying feeling. It's not even about "beating" or "conquering" the machine, it's about taking something that is fucking broken and using your own hands and brain to restore it. These men get a high when they're able to say "I fixed it".</p><p>Women can have this mindset, but it's more common in men. Additionally, nobody asks why there aren't more female auto mechanics. It's just accepted. IT hasn't been around long enough to get this nailed down, and that's why people are asking "Where the hell are the ladies?? Is systematic discrimination at work?". My personal opinion is that most women have far better things to do with their time than beat their head against an emotionless and misbehaving piece of machinery.</p><p>In my caveman view of society, women act as the glue that keeps the tribe together. Men act as the glue that allow the tribe to interact with the harsh wilderness outside the village. I think this is termed "gender roles" in the literature and there are a lot of funny observations about how dysfunctional men and women can get when they are apart from each other (as a side note to the bachelors, I recently learned that a bag of salad and a case of beer IS NOT dinner).</p><p>I believe there can be excellent female techs. The mindset does not depend on having a penis. Anyone caught trying to forcibly assign people to their gender roles should be punched in the nose, or if female, in the words of Elaine from Seinfeld, "teased until they develop an eating disorder".</p><p>To the men out there: keep soothing the inhuman machines that give our tribe so much power. To the women in IT: you are a rare breed and I salute you, and give me a call sometime! I have salad..</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Can we get over this whole sexism bullshit already ?
Who gives a damn if women do n't work in IT ?
If a woman wants to do something in IT , fine .
If she does n't , fine .
If you want to look for gender-based discrimination , look elsewhere.This topic is going to keep coming up for years .
I know I 'm going to offend the more professional IT guys , but I see many , many similarities between the IT mindset and the mindset of an auto mechanic.Many men enjoy their relationship with machines .
Presented with a machine that is non-functional , they identify the fault and repair it to like-new operation .
This gives a profoundly gratifying feeling .
It 's not even about " beating " or " conquering " the machine , it 's about taking something that is fucking broken and using your own hands and brain to restore it .
These men get a high when they 're able to say " I fixed it " .Women can have this mindset , but it 's more common in men .
Additionally , nobody asks why there are n't more female auto mechanics .
It 's just accepted .
IT has n't been around long enough to get this nailed down , and that 's why people are asking " Where the hell are the ladies ? ?
Is systematic discrimination at work ? " .
My personal opinion is that most women have far better things to do with their time than beat their head against an emotionless and misbehaving piece of machinery.In my caveman view of society , women act as the glue that keeps the tribe together .
Men act as the glue that allow the tribe to interact with the harsh wilderness outside the village .
I think this is termed " gender roles " in the literature and there are a lot of funny observations about how dysfunctional men and women can get when they are apart from each other ( as a side note to the bachelors , I recently learned that a bag of salad and a case of beer IS NOT dinner ) .I believe there can be excellent female techs .
The mindset does not depend on having a penis .
Anyone caught trying to forcibly assign people to their gender roles should be punched in the nose , or if female , in the words of Elaine from Seinfeld , " teased until they develop an eating disorder " .To the men out there : keep soothing the inhuman machines that give our tribe so much power .
To the women in IT : you are a rare breed and I salute you , and give me a call sometime !
I have salad. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can we get over this whole sexism bullshit already?
Who gives a damn if women don't work in IT?
If a woman wants to do something in IT, fine.
If she doesn't, fine.
If you want to look for gender-based discrimination, look elsewhere.This topic is going to keep coming up for years.
I know I'm going to offend the more professional IT guys, but I see many, many similarities between the IT mindset and the mindset of an auto mechanic.Many men enjoy their relationship with machines.
Presented with a machine that is non-functional, they identify the fault and repair it to like-new operation.
This gives a profoundly gratifying feeling.
It's not even about "beating" or "conquering" the machine, it's about taking something that is fucking broken and using your own hands and brain to restore it.
These men get a high when they're able to say "I fixed it".Women can have this mindset, but it's more common in men.
Additionally, nobody asks why there aren't more female auto mechanics.
It's just accepted.
IT hasn't been around long enough to get this nailed down, and that's why people are asking "Where the hell are the ladies??
Is systematic discrimination at work?".
My personal opinion is that most women have far better things to do with their time than beat their head against an emotionless and misbehaving piece of machinery.In my caveman view of society, women act as the glue that keeps the tribe together.
Men act as the glue that allow the tribe to interact with the harsh wilderness outside the village.
I think this is termed "gender roles" in the literature and there are a lot of funny observations about how dysfunctional men and women can get when they are apart from each other (as a side note to the bachelors, I recently learned that a bag of salad and a case of beer IS NOT dinner).I believe there can be excellent female techs.
The mindset does not depend on having a penis.
Anyone caught trying to forcibly assign people to their gender roles should be punched in the nose, or if female, in the words of Elaine from Seinfeld, "teased until they develop an eating disorder".To the men out there: keep soothing the inhuman machines that give our tribe so much power.
To the women in IT: you are a rare breed and I salute you, and give me a call sometime!
I have salad..
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30486376</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1261147740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The only irony is when someone calls themselves a feminist and thinks they're battling for equality.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The only irony is when someone calls themselves a feminist and thinks they 're battling for equality .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only irony is when someone calls themselves a feminist and thinks they're battling for equality.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481544</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30490640</id>
	<title>Re:The money issue is not as simple as stated</title>
	<author>BJ\_Covert\_Action</author>
	<datestamp>1261164480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>[By the way, the number of girls on his engineering tours seem to be between 10\% and 20\%. In other words, nothing there is changing. My son's solution to the ratio issue is to attend a large university where there are more female students overall.]</p></div><p>
You might also recommend that he join his university's Society of Women Engineers (SWE) branch. While the club's mantra is to advocate and strengthen female presence in the engineering workforce, it loves to have male members. At the engineering school that I attended, just about every female in an engineering major was an active participant in that club. I'll admit that quite a few of them were completely bat-shit insane, but there were a few lovely young ladies that stood out as fun and worth getting to know.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>[ By the way , the number of girls on his engineering tours seem to be between 10 \ % and 20 \ % .
In other words , nothing there is changing .
My son 's solution to the ratio issue is to attend a large university where there are more female students overall .
] You might also recommend that he join his university 's Society of Women Engineers ( SWE ) branch .
While the club 's mantra is to advocate and strengthen female presence in the engineering workforce , it loves to have male members .
At the engineering school that I attended , just about every female in an engineering major was an active participant in that club .
I 'll admit that quite a few of them were completely bat-shit insane , but there were a few lovely young ladies that stood out as fun and worth getting to know .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>[By the way, the number of girls on his engineering tours seem to be between 10\% and 20\%.
In other words, nothing there is changing.
My son's solution to the ratio issue is to attend a large university where there are more female students overall.
]
You might also recommend that he join his university's Society of Women Engineers (SWE) branch.
While the club's mantra is to advocate and strengthen female presence in the engineering workforce, it loves to have male members.
At the engineering school that I attended, just about every female in an engineering major was an active participant in that club.
I'll admit that quite a few of them were completely bat-shit insane, but there were a few lovely young ladies that stood out as fun and worth getting to know.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479164</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479742</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261046700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They should like to go into the field involving making me meals, fetching me beer, and ironing my clothes.</htmltext>
<tokenext>They should like to go into the field involving making me meals , fetching me beer , and ironing my clothes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They should like to go into the field involving making me meals, fetching me beer, and ironing my clothes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30478998</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480284</id>
	<title>Re:Men aren&rsquo;t so dumb...</title>
	<author>drpentode</author>
	<datestamp>1261049040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm allergic to tomatoes and lactose intolerant, you insensitive clod!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm allergic to tomatoes and lactose intolerant , you insensitive clod !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm allergic to tomatoes and lactose intolerant, you insensitive clod!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479034</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480090</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261048200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>More like people should stop trying to make the whole world average. If a particular field has more men in it, who cares?</p><p>This just in, there are more female babysitters than males. Oh no, we have a babysitter gender gap!</p><p>Why does everything on the planet have to be "fair" in a way that's really not fair at all because it's actually just a contrived view of how "things should be" in some fantasy? And a better question, when are going to stand up to such nonsense and reject the whole premise that the world should be a statistical average reflecting a cross-section of all society?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>More like people should stop trying to make the whole world average .
If a particular field has more men in it , who cares ? This just in , there are more female babysitters than males .
Oh no , we have a babysitter gender gap ! Why does everything on the planet have to be " fair " in a way that 's really not fair at all because it 's actually just a contrived view of how " things should be " in some fantasy ?
And a better question , when are going to stand up to such nonsense and reject the whole premise that the world should be a statistical average reflecting a cross-section of all society ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>More like people should stop trying to make the whole world average.
If a particular field has more men in it, who cares?This just in, there are more female babysitters than males.
Oh no, we have a babysitter gender gap!Why does everything on the planet have to be "fair" in a way that's really not fair at all because it's actually just a contrived view of how "things should be" in some fantasy?
And a better question, when are going to stand up to such nonsense and reject the whole premise that the world should be a statistical average reflecting a cross-section of all society?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30478998</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481570</id>
	<title>umb...</title>
	<author>absonant</author>
	<datestamp>1261055940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The phrasing here is a little degrading, isn't it?  As a female software developer, I'm dumber than other women for doing what I enjoy?

<br>And amen to a lot of the other comments defending CS and IT jobs.

<br>What was the point of this exercise?</htmltext>
<tokenext>The phrasing here is a little degrading , is n't it ?
As a female software developer , I 'm dumber than other women for doing what I enjoy ?
And amen to a lot of the other comments defending CS and IT jobs .
What was the point of this exercise ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The phrasing here is a little degrading, isn't it?
As a female software developer, I'm dumber than other women for doing what I enjoy?
And amen to a lot of the other comments defending CS and IT jobs.
What was the point of this exercise?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30486214</id>
	<title>Re:Are you kidding?</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1261147080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>So yeah, I'm going into teaching.</p> </div><p>Are you going into teaching children? Because their parents will sabotage you, some of them just because they feel threatened by the achievements of their children. The federal government will sabotage you, and you must labor under their unfunded mandates for which there are literally not enough hours in the day, let alone dollars in the bank. The required curriculum includes outright lies. Do I go on?</p><p>Do what you love for a living, nothing else matters*. And realize that you will be used and abused as a teacher; only tenured professors really have a decent gig, and tenured positions are becoming rarer on a per capita basis. So if you'll potentially be used and abused anywhere, you should try to do what you love, and focus on finding an employer who will treat you right. They do exist.</p><p>* <tt>Actually, sustainability also matters. You do need to be able to make a living.</tt> </p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>So yeah , I 'm going into teaching .
Are you going into teaching children ?
Because their parents will sabotage you , some of them just because they feel threatened by the achievements of their children .
The federal government will sabotage you , and you must labor under their unfunded mandates for which there are literally not enough hours in the day , let alone dollars in the bank .
The required curriculum includes outright lies .
Do I go on ? Do what you love for a living , nothing else matters * .
And realize that you will be used and abused as a teacher ; only tenured professors really have a decent gig , and tenured positions are becoming rarer on a per capita basis .
So if you 'll potentially be used and abused anywhere , you should try to do what you love , and focus on finding an employer who will treat you right .
They do exist .
* Actually , sustainability also matters .
You do need to be able to make a living .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So yeah, I'm going into teaching.
Are you going into teaching children?
Because their parents will sabotage you, some of them just because they feel threatened by the achievements of their children.
The federal government will sabotage you, and you must labor under their unfunded mandates for which there are literally not enough hours in the day, let alone dollars in the bank.
The required curriculum includes outright lies.
Do I go on?Do what you love for a living, nothing else matters*.
And realize that you will be used and abused as a teacher; only tenured professors really have a decent gig, and tenured positions are becoming rarer on a per capita basis.
So if you'll potentially be used and abused anywhere, you should try to do what you love, and focus on finding an employer who will treat you right.
They do exist.
* Actually, sustainability also matters.
You do need to be able to make a living. 
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481954</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>malp</author>
	<datestamp>1261057920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I cannot disagree more. Picture an ex-con. I bet you're picturing a man, huh? The only fix is affirmative action for men (or women, not really sure about the terminology). Either way. We need tougher laws for women. A man jaywalks? $50 fine. A women jaywalks? Chained heat 2</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I can not disagree more .
Picture an ex-con .
I bet you 're picturing a man , huh ?
The only fix is affirmative action for men ( or women , not really sure about the terminology ) .
Either way .
We need tougher laws for women .
A man jaywalks ?
$ 50 fine .
A women jaywalks ?
Chained heat 2</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I cannot disagree more.
Picture an ex-con.
I bet you're picturing a man, huh?
The only fix is affirmative action for men (or women, not really sure about the terminology).
Either way.
We need tougher laws for women.
A man jaywalks?
$50 fine.
A women jaywalks?
Chained heat 2</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480090</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479568</id>
	<title>Expected OR Predictable ?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261045980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am with Linus on this one<br>Linus is right<br>The man makes sense<br>He is absolutely correct on this one</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am with Linus on this oneLinus is rightThe man makes senseHe is absolutely correct on this one</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am with Linus on this oneLinus is rightThe man makes senseHe is absolutely correct on this one</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479382</id>
	<title>Parenthood?</title>
	<author>goathumper</author>
	<datestamp>1261045440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Perhaps women are smart enough to realize that when they finally want to take the step into parenthood, having a "slave" IT job that requires them to be up at ungodly hours just to keep up and deal with with the lunacy that often plagues that field.  Thus, they start doing the math and realize that their family is more important than being IT slaves.

In those types of decisions, women are MUCH smarter than men...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps women are smart enough to realize that when they finally want to take the step into parenthood , having a " slave " IT job that requires them to be up at ungodly hours just to keep up and deal with with the lunacy that often plagues that field .
Thus , they start doing the math and realize that their family is more important than being IT slaves .
In those types of decisions , women are MUCH smarter than men.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps women are smart enough to realize that when they finally want to take the step into parenthood, having a "slave" IT job that requires them to be up at ungodly hours just to keep up and deal with with the lunacy that often plagues that field.
Thus, they start doing the math and realize that their family is more important than being IT slaves.
In those types of decisions, women are MUCH smarter than men...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30482664</id>
	<title>I dunno about "IT"</title>
	<author>wurp</author>
	<datestamp>1261062840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But I write software, and I stay employed all the time, despite my unwillingness to work over 40 hours per week, and despite my insistence on a healthy six figure salary.  I have done this for 16 years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But I write software , and I stay employed all the time , despite my unwillingness to work over 40 hours per week , and despite my insistence on a healthy six figure salary .
I have done this for 16 years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But I write software, and I stay employed all the time, despite my unwillingness to work over 40 hours per week, and despite my insistence on a healthy six figure salary.
I have done this for 16 years.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479770</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30490012</id>
	<title>BS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261162500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sorry, but that's BS. It's not about making the world more average, it's about making places more diverse. <p>
A company with a diverse team usually has more institutional intelligence. A company with a mono-culture will have to do studies about everything they develop. "Let's ask a consultant what women / blacks / people with children" think about it.  And then later: "We had no way of knowing."
</p><p>
And - only to have women going into child-care would be bad too. Because then, for a working single woman the only male role model the child had, would be her crappy ex<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry , but that 's BS .
It 's not about making the world more average , it 's about making places more diverse .
A company with a diverse team usually has more institutional intelligence .
A company with a mono-culture will have to do studies about everything they develop .
" Let 's ask a consultant what women / blacks / people with children " think about it .
And then later : " We had no way of knowing .
" And - only to have women going into child-care would be bad too .
Because then , for a working single woman the only male role model the child had , would be her crappy ex ; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry, but that's BS.
It's not about making the world more average, it's about making places more diverse.
A company with a diverse team usually has more institutional intelligence.
A company with a mono-culture will have to do studies about everything they develop.
"Let's ask a consultant what women / blacks / people with children" think about it.
And then later: "We had no way of knowing.
"

And - only to have women going into child-care would be bad too.
Because then, for a working single woman the only male role model the child had, would be her crappy ex ;)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480090</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479486</id>
	<title>Not necessarily correct</title>
	<author>Kupfernigk</author>
	<datestamp>1261045740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I would say in my experience the proportion of men and women who are unable to understand a logical argument and respond appropriately is roughly equal. Men and women are equally irrational and emotional except for a few days each month. But men don't have babies. Physics, maths and computers give them kind of emotional substitutes. Therefore, women tend to be more happy in a process environment and men tend to be more happy in a completion environment.<p>Of course this is a generalisation and the strength of the tendency does not, I think, explain the gender bias in these jobs. That is almost entirely social. I am going to go out on a complete limb and suggest that the increase in numbers of people from the East and Far East in IT is one of the factors that is driving gender equality backwards. In the UK, lots of Asian women go into medicine,law and accountancy because these jobs are seen as acceptable by their parents, while engineering, maths and science are seen as more male roles.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would say in my experience the proportion of men and women who are unable to understand a logical argument and respond appropriately is roughly equal .
Men and women are equally irrational and emotional except for a few days each month .
But men do n't have babies .
Physics , maths and computers give them kind of emotional substitutes .
Therefore , women tend to be more happy in a process environment and men tend to be more happy in a completion environment.Of course this is a generalisation and the strength of the tendency does not , I think , explain the gender bias in these jobs .
That is almost entirely social .
I am going to go out on a complete limb and suggest that the increase in numbers of people from the East and Far East in IT is one of the factors that is driving gender equality backwards .
In the UK , lots of Asian women go into medicine,law and accountancy because these jobs are seen as acceptable by their parents , while engineering , maths and science are seen as more male roles .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would say in my experience the proportion of men and women who are unable to understand a logical argument and respond appropriately is roughly equal.
Men and women are equally irrational and emotional except for a few days each month.
But men don't have babies.
Physics, maths and computers give them kind of emotional substitutes.
Therefore, women tend to be more happy in a process environment and men tend to be more happy in a completion environment.Of course this is a generalisation and the strength of the tendency does not, I think, explain the gender bias in these jobs.
That is almost entirely social.
I am going to go out on a complete limb and suggest that the increase in numbers of people from the East and Far East in IT is one of the factors that is driving gender equality backwards.
In the UK, lots of Asian women go into medicine,law and accountancy because these jobs are seen as acceptable by their parents, while engineering, maths and science are seen as more male roles.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479200</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30484434</id>
	<title>Re:From a phsychological point of view...</title>
	<author>ajlisows</author>
	<datestamp>1261169220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't know about the entire "Women are more emotional" thing....especially as it comes to the IT world.  In my experience IT is half filled with males who are pretty emotional and don't know how to keep them in check.  They rant, they rave, they threaten to quit/destroy systems/other insane thing, they are catty towards each other, they pout/throw tanrums when they don't get their way or don't get recognition, they constantly try to one up each other with their psychological disorders.....in short they act worse than any group of women ever could be.  I don't buy the emotional thing one bit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know about the entire " Women are more emotional " thing....especially as it comes to the IT world .
In my experience IT is half filled with males who are pretty emotional and do n't know how to keep them in check .
They rant , they rave , they threaten to quit/destroy systems/other insane thing , they are catty towards each other , they pout/throw tanrums when they do n't get their way or do n't get recognition , they constantly try to one up each other with their psychological disorders.....in short they act worse than any group of women ever could be .
I do n't buy the emotional thing one bit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know about the entire "Women are more emotional" thing....especially as it comes to the IT world.
In my experience IT is half filled with males who are pretty emotional and don't know how to keep them in check.
They rant, they rave, they threaten to quit/destroy systems/other insane thing, they are catty towards each other, they pout/throw tanrums when they don't get their way or don't get recognition, they constantly try to one up each other with their psychological disorders.....in short they act worse than any group of women ever could be.
I don't buy the emotional thing one bit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479200</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481874</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocritical</title>
	<author>Requiem18th</author>
	<datestamp>1261057440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In before, I know a kick-ass D&amp;D DM girl. The problem with stereotypes is that they don't describe the people but the population.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In before , I know a kick-ass D&amp;D DM girl .
The problem with stereotypes is that they do n't describe the people but the population .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In before, I know a kick-ass D&amp;D DM girl.
The problem with stereotypes is that they don't describe the people but the population.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479164</id>
	<title>The money issue is not as simple as stated</title>
	<author>managerialslime</author>
	<datestamp>1261044660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been taking my 18 year old to tour colleges as he will be pursuing chemical engineering.  Engineering starting salaries across the board (chemical, civil, mechanical, and electrical) are between $50 and $70k.</p><p>The solution for many comp sci students is to double major comp sci with one of the above "demand" areas, pass the professional engineering exam, and then the money issue is a non issue.  Computer skills are now part and parcel of every engineering profession, so getting paid well to do what you love (if you love computers) should not be difficult.</p><p>The challenge for people hell-bent on starting their careers as programmers (as opposed to computer engineers) seems to be that starting programmers are not worth as much.</p><p>[By the way, the number of girls on his engineering tours seem to be between 10\% and 20\%.  In other words, nothing there is changing.  My son's solution to the ratio issue is to attend a large university where there are more female students overall.]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been taking my 18 year old to tour colleges as he will be pursuing chemical engineering .
Engineering starting salaries across the board ( chemical , civil , mechanical , and electrical ) are between $ 50 and $ 70k.The solution for many comp sci students is to double major comp sci with one of the above " demand " areas , pass the professional engineering exam , and then the money issue is a non issue .
Computer skills are now part and parcel of every engineering profession , so getting paid well to do what you love ( if you love computers ) should not be difficult.The challenge for people hell-bent on starting their careers as programmers ( as opposed to computer engineers ) seems to be that starting programmers are not worth as much .
[ By the way , the number of girls on his engineering tours seem to be between 10 \ % and 20 \ % .
In other words , nothing there is changing .
My son 's solution to the ratio issue is to attend a large university where there are more female students overall .
]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been taking my 18 year old to tour colleges as he will be pursuing chemical engineering.
Engineering starting salaries across the board (chemical, civil, mechanical, and electrical) are between $50 and $70k.The solution for many comp sci students is to double major comp sci with one of the above "demand" areas, pass the professional engineering exam, and then the money issue is a non issue.
Computer skills are now part and parcel of every engineering profession, so getting paid well to do what you love (if you love computers) should not be difficult.The challenge for people hell-bent on starting their careers as programmers (as opposed to computer engineers) seems to be that starting programmers are not worth as much.
[By the way, the number of girls on his engineering tours seem to be between 10\% and 20\%.
In other words, nothing there is changing.
My son's solution to the ratio issue is to attend a large university where there are more female students overall.
]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481534</id>
	<title>Re:I am seeing it.</title>
	<author>Eil</author>
	<datestamp>1261055760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Excellent, more room for those of us who love working with and/or making the technology instead of merely subsisting off it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Excellent , more room for those of us who love working with and/or making the technology instead of merely subsisting off it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Excellent, more room for those of us who love working with and/or making the technology instead of merely subsisting off it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480310</id>
	<title>Not enough men in nursing??</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261049160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How come we never see encouragement for men to get into 'female-dominated' positions? I have seen that the government and universities are generally willing to take on much of the financial burden of female students so that they can study STEM (Science, Tech., Engineering and Mathematics) related subjects, but not the other way around. I've known very, very good male students who struggle to get funding (in grad school) while the girls seem to have it easy (to the point where I have sometimes felt that some of the girls exploit their gender benefits).</p><p>Also, the article is a joke - more like 'girls avoid messy rooms more than guys' is the only reasonable conclusion we can draw from it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How come we never see encouragement for men to get into 'female-dominated ' positions ?
I have seen that the government and universities are generally willing to take on much of the financial burden of female students so that they can study STEM ( Science , Tech. , Engineering and Mathematics ) related subjects , but not the other way around .
I 've known very , very good male students who struggle to get funding ( in grad school ) while the girls seem to have it easy ( to the point where I have sometimes felt that some of the girls exploit their gender benefits ) .Also , the article is a joke - more like 'girls avoid messy rooms more than guys ' is the only reasonable conclusion we can draw from it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How come we never see encouragement for men to get into 'female-dominated' positions?
I have seen that the government and universities are generally willing to take on much of the financial burden of female students so that they can study STEM (Science, Tech., Engineering and Mathematics) related subjects, but not the other way around.
I've known very, very good male students who struggle to get funding (in grad school) while the girls seem to have it easy (to the point where I have sometimes felt that some of the girls exploit their gender benefits).Also, the article is a joke - more like 'girls avoid messy rooms more than guys' is the only reasonable conclusion we can draw from it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481110</id>
	<title>Re:I am seeing it.</title>
	<author>prefec2</author>
	<datestamp>1261053180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's why you should get a master degree. And when think you cannot get a job in the US, because of all those foreigners. Go to Europe, computer scientists are rare here. And we need more of them. Especially software engineers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's why you should get a master degree .
And when think you can not get a job in the US , because of all those foreigners .
Go to Europe , computer scientists are rare here .
And we need more of them .
Especially software engineers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's why you should get a master degree.
And when think you cannot get a job in the US, because of all those foreigners.
Go to Europe, computer scientists are rare here.
And we need more of them.
Especially software engineers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30482206</id>
	<title>Re:Another one of these??</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261059540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>No one is going to go out of their way to make women feel all warm and cozy.</p></div><p>Noone does it for men either. Men generally treat each other like crap, and all men get ignored, talked over, dismissed etc. until they prove themselves. Women often mistake 'equal treatment' for sexism.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>No one is going to go out of their way to make women feel all warm and cozy.Noone does it for men either .
Men generally treat each other like crap , and all men get ignored , talked over , dismissed etc .
until they prove themselves .
Women often mistake 'equal treatment ' for sexism .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No one is going to go out of their way to make women feel all warm and cozy.Noone does it for men either.
Men generally treat each other like crap, and all men get ignored, talked over, dismissed etc.
until they prove themselves.
Women often mistake 'equal treatment' for sexism.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480564</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481272</id>
	<title>Not Enough Women In Computing, Or Too Many Men?</title>
	<author>prefec2</author>
	<datestamp>1261054200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Neither it is too many stupid questions. Why do women not study CS? Well they don't want to. Why do women not want to study CS? Because they think it is boring. That's why they all study math. And something else. I heard lots of complains about the bad payment, the hard work, the long working hours, and these many foreigners in the US which make so much competition. Well the point is they all speak English, so they can easily work in their home country and in yours. However, there are plenty of job opportunities in Europe. And in most companies you might even be able to work in English. But it would be helpful to speak the language of that country too. You could take courses. For example: You could go to Germany. With am master degree in CS you get something between 36 000 EUR and 43 000 EUR if you are fresh out of university. And you get a paid leave (if I'm not mistaken that are 25 or 28 work days eg. 5 to 5.5 weeks). You get health-care and the company pays half of the cost. And it does not cost more when you have a family. They are all inclusive. And you pay less tax when you have children. And they cannot dump you after probation period, you get at least 3 month cancellation period.</p><p>There have more of those socialist laws here. You cannot be kicked out of a flat you rented. And people normally do not carry around guns. The only bad thing. The school system sucks as much as in the US (official OECD values). But may be you could go to any other west or north European country like the Netherlands (good schools) or Sweden (good schools and even better health care)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Neither it is too many stupid questions .
Why do women not study CS ?
Well they do n't want to .
Why do women not want to study CS ?
Because they think it is boring .
That 's why they all study math .
And something else .
I heard lots of complains about the bad payment , the hard work , the long working hours , and these many foreigners in the US which make so much competition .
Well the point is they all speak English , so they can easily work in their home country and in yours .
However , there are plenty of job opportunities in Europe .
And in most companies you might even be able to work in English .
But it would be helpful to speak the language of that country too .
You could take courses .
For example : You could go to Germany .
With am master degree in CS you get something between 36 000 EUR and 43 000 EUR if you are fresh out of university .
And you get a paid leave ( if I 'm not mistaken that are 25 or 28 work days eg .
5 to 5.5 weeks ) .
You get health-care and the company pays half of the cost .
And it does not cost more when you have a family .
They are all inclusive .
And you pay less tax when you have children .
And they can not dump you after probation period , you get at least 3 month cancellation period.There have more of those socialist laws here .
You can not be kicked out of a flat you rented .
And people normally do not carry around guns .
The only bad thing .
The school system sucks as much as in the US ( official OECD values ) .
But may be you could go to any other west or north European country like the Netherlands ( good schools ) or Sweden ( good schools and even better health care )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Neither it is too many stupid questions.
Why do women not study CS?
Well they don't want to.
Why do women not want to study CS?
Because they think it is boring.
That's why they all study math.
And something else.
I heard lots of complains about the bad payment, the hard work, the long working hours, and these many foreigners in the US which make so much competition.
Well the point is they all speak English, so they can easily work in their home country and in yours.
However, there are plenty of job opportunities in Europe.
And in most companies you might even be able to work in English.
But it would be helpful to speak the language of that country too.
You could take courses.
For example: You could go to Germany.
With am master degree in CS you get something between 36 000 EUR and 43 000 EUR if you are fresh out of university.
And you get a paid leave (if I'm not mistaken that are 25 or 28 work days eg.
5 to 5.5 weeks).
You get health-care and the company pays half of the cost.
And it does not cost more when you have a family.
They are all inclusive.
And you pay less tax when you have children.
And they cannot dump you after probation period, you get at least 3 month cancellation period.There have more of those socialist laws here.
You cannot be kicked out of a flat you rented.
And people normally do not carry around guns.
The only bad thing.
The school system sucks as much as in the US (official OECD values).
But may be you could go to any other west or north European country like the Netherlands (good schools) or Sweden (good schools and even better health care)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479324</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocritical</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261045260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because like everything else, there is a cult that is dead set to create as many conflicts and divisions wherever they can create them. Also to get attention by creating that conflict (to make more dollars). There will NEVER be an "equal" amount of anything in any situation. This is simply a natural phenomenon, nothing ever stays in balance.</p><p>There WAS institutional discrimination in our society. Institutional discrimination has not only been eliminated, but has also been made "illegal". While there may still be situations where women/men/black/white people are discriminated by individual employers, but it is no longer "institutional". So instead of railing against the government, we now have the "humanists" railing against society, for everything they do not consider to be the way they want it.</p><p>How about this: Women dont play dungeons and dragons. Dungeon Masters must somehow be discriminating.</p><p>How about this: Women dont want to work in a cubicle farm, in front of a monitor, doing math all day for little thanx or social interaction. No no... that would go against the paradigm of perpetual class conflict.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because like everything else , there is a cult that is dead set to create as many conflicts and divisions wherever they can create them .
Also to get attention by creating that conflict ( to make more dollars ) .
There will NEVER be an " equal " amount of anything in any situation .
This is simply a natural phenomenon , nothing ever stays in balance.There WAS institutional discrimination in our society .
Institutional discrimination has not only been eliminated , but has also been made " illegal " .
While there may still be situations where women/men/black/white people are discriminated by individual employers , but it is no longer " institutional " .
So instead of railing against the government , we now have the " humanists " railing against society , for everything they do not consider to be the way they want it.How about this : Women dont play dungeons and dragons .
Dungeon Masters must somehow be discriminating.How about this : Women dont want to work in a cubicle farm , in front of a monitor , doing math all day for little thanx or social interaction .
No no... that would go against the paradigm of perpetual class conflict .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because like everything else, there is a cult that is dead set to create as many conflicts and divisions wherever they can create them.
Also to get attention by creating that conflict (to make more dollars).
There will NEVER be an "equal" amount of anything in any situation.
This is simply a natural phenomenon, nothing ever stays in balance.There WAS institutional discrimination in our society.
Institutional discrimination has not only been eliminated, but has also been made "illegal".
While there may still be situations where women/men/black/white people are discriminated by individual employers, but it is no longer "institutional".
So instead of railing against the government, we now have the "humanists" railing against society, for everything they do not consider to be the way they want it.How about this: Women dont play dungeons and dragons.
Dungeon Masters must somehow be discriminating.How about this: Women dont want to work in a cubicle farm, in front of a monitor, doing math all day for little thanx or social interaction.
No no... that would go against the paradigm of perpetual class conflict.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30478984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479694</id>
	<title>you're mixing up the articles</title>
	<author>Trepidity</author>
	<datestamp>1261046460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A woman named Jeanna Bryner wrote the original article, entitled "Geeks Drive Girls Out of Computer Science" (1st link), which is arguing the fairly standard point, that women are turned away from CS due to a male-dominated geek culture. The reply, from a male blogger named Cameron Laird (2nd link), argues the opposite, that women are too smart to go into computing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A woman named Jeanna Bryner wrote the original article , entitled " Geeks Drive Girls Out of Computer Science " ( 1st link ) , which is arguing the fairly standard point , that women are turned away from CS due to a male-dominated geek culture .
The reply , from a male blogger named Cameron Laird ( 2nd link ) , argues the opposite , that women are too smart to go into computing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A woman named Jeanna Bryner wrote the original article, entitled "Geeks Drive Girls Out of Computer Science" (1st link), which is arguing the fairly standard point, that women are turned away from CS due to a male-dominated geek culture.
The reply, from a male blogger named Cameron Laird (2nd link), argues the opposite, that women are too smart to go into computing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479020</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481544</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>cecille</author>
	<datestamp>1261055820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's the feminists who are making excuses</p></div><p>I'm not sure I agree with your whole post, but I have to give you props for this quote here.  I'm a women in computer engineering and honestly, the place I feel the most uncomfortable is around so-called feminists.  In university I avoided the women's center like the plague because every time I went in there with my eng books or wearing an engineering sweater or anything I always got the LOOK and a lecture about how I was just as bad as all the rest of those engineers and why are our songs so disgusting and blah blah blah.<br> <br>
There's sort of a delicious irony about someone claiming they are this huge feminist and then going into women's studies, the MOST un-evenly gender balanced and stereotypically female subject available and then having the gall to give me shit for singing stupid songs and drinking too much beer.  You want to fix the gender balance in computer engineering?  Well, the computer is right over there, stop doing stupid sociology studies and learn to code.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's the feminists who are making excusesI 'm not sure I agree with your whole post , but I have to give you props for this quote here .
I 'm a women in computer engineering and honestly , the place I feel the most uncomfortable is around so-called feminists .
In university I avoided the women 's center like the plague because every time I went in there with my eng books or wearing an engineering sweater or anything I always got the LOOK and a lecture about how I was just as bad as all the rest of those engineers and why are our songs so disgusting and blah blah blah .
There 's sort of a delicious irony about someone claiming they are this huge feminist and then going into women 's studies , the MOST un-evenly gender balanced and stereotypically female subject available and then having the gall to give me shit for singing stupid songs and drinking too much beer .
You want to fix the gender balance in computer engineering ?
Well , the computer is right over there , stop doing stupid sociology studies and learn to code .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's the feminists who are making excusesI'm not sure I agree with your whole post, but I have to give you props for this quote here.
I'm a women in computer engineering and honestly, the place I feel the most uncomfortable is around so-called feminists.
In university I avoided the women's center like the plague because every time I went in there with my eng books or wearing an engineering sweater or anything I always got the LOOK and a lecture about how I was just as bad as all the rest of those engineers and why are our songs so disgusting and blah blah blah.
There's sort of a delicious irony about someone claiming they are this huge feminist and then going into women's studies, the MOST un-evenly gender balanced and stereotypically female subject available and then having the gall to give me shit for singing stupid songs and drinking too much beer.
You want to fix the gender balance in computer engineering?
Well, the computer is right over there, stop doing stupid sociology studies and learn to code.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30482774</id>
	<title>Re:Another one of these??</title>
	<author>QuantumG</author>
	<datestamp>1261063620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Umm.. yeah, I'm a male in IT and have been for 14 years and I've been ignored, talked over, dismissed, and generally excluded too.  Geeks do that.  The difference between you and me is that you play games and I say "whatever dickweed" and get on with my job.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Umm.. yeah , I 'm a male in IT and have been for 14 years and I 've been ignored , talked over , dismissed , and generally excluded too .
Geeks do that .
The difference between you and me is that you play games and I say " whatever dickweed " and get on with my job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Umm.. yeah, I'm a male in IT and have been for 14 years and I've been ignored, talked over, dismissed, and generally excluded too.
Geeks do that.
The difference between you and me is that you play games and I say "whatever dickweed" and get on with my job.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480564</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30483830</id>
	<title>Re:Are you kidding?</title>
	<author>slimjim8094</author>
	<datestamp>1261073700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yet, when I read that, it sounds like what I already do - cool, getting paid to do a hobby!</p><p>On the other hand, the thought of doing lesson plans and dealing with shitty kids and shitty parents makes my skin crawl.</p><p>But nobody is falling over themselves to get me to be a teacher.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yet , when I read that , it sounds like what I already do - cool , getting paid to do a hobby ! On the other hand , the thought of doing lesson plans and dealing with shitty kids and shitty parents makes my skin crawl.But nobody is falling over themselves to get me to be a teacher .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yet, when I read that, it sounds like what I already do - cool, getting paid to do a hobby!On the other hand, the thought of doing lesson plans and dealing with shitty kids and shitty parents makes my skin crawl.But nobody is falling over themselves to get me to be a teacher.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480358</id>
	<title>Re:Are you kidding?</title>
	<author>scubamage</author>
	<datestamp>1261049340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><div><p>I complain about all of those things. Except one day I was hit by a realization at 4am while trying to get a workstation to function: "Hey, I could be getting paid for this." See a lot of us in IT do it, despite all of our bitching and moaning, because we really do love it. We love computers, we love technology, we love being the go-to-people whenever anything that goes "BEEP!" with flashy lights isn't working quite right. We wish we got more respect, and we wish we were better compensated. But then again, who doesn't? Who ever says, "Man, I just make TOO MUCH money!" I work on call hours, and yes it does suck. However the fact remains that the first thing I do when I get home is sit down at my computer. I'm still up til 2am (or later) working on computers. The only difference between that and being on call is that we don't have the control we normally do. But we're still doing the same work. We do it because we love it, even though we say we hate it. Its just one of those things we love to hate.</p> </htmltext>
<tokenext>I complain about all of those things .
Except one day I was hit by a realization at 4am while trying to get a workstation to function : " Hey , I could be getting paid for this .
" See a lot of us in IT do it , despite all of our bitching and moaning , because we really do love it .
We love computers , we love technology , we love being the go-to-people whenever anything that goes " BEEP !
" with flashy lights is n't working quite right .
We wish we got more respect , and we wish we were better compensated .
But then again , who does n't ?
Who ever says , " Man , I just make TOO MUCH money !
" I work on call hours , and yes it does suck .
However the fact remains that the first thing I do when I get home is sit down at my computer .
I 'm still up til 2am ( or later ) working on computers .
The only difference between that and being on call is that we do n't have the control we normally do .
But we 're still doing the same work .
We do it because we love it , even though we say we hate it .
Its just one of those things we love to hate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I complain about all of those things.
Except one day I was hit by a realization at 4am while trying to get a workstation to function: "Hey, I could be getting paid for this.
" See a lot of us in IT do it, despite all of our bitching and moaning, because we really do love it.
We love computers, we love technology, we love being the go-to-people whenever anything that goes "BEEP!
" with flashy lights isn't working quite right.
We wish we got more respect, and we wish we were better compensated.
But then again, who doesn't?
Who ever says, "Man, I just make TOO MUCH money!
" I work on call hours, and yes it does suck.
However the fact remains that the first thing I do when I get home is sit down at my computer.
I'm still up til 2am (or later) working on computers.
The only difference between that and being on call is that we don't have the control we normally do.
But we're still doing the same work.
We do it because we love it, even though we say we hate it.
Its just one of those things we love to hate. </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30497906</id>
	<title>Re:I am seeing it.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261229460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>People who aspire to be corporate IT drones, mostly for large multinationals are asking for a let down much like their fellow corporate drones who arent MBA type con-artists who drove the economy downwards in the first place, displacing all the people below their level. Avoid large companies, unless that company got large while you worked there and you got in on the piece of the pie.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People who aspire to be corporate IT drones , mostly for large multinationals are asking for a let down much like their fellow corporate drones who arent MBA type con-artists who drove the economy downwards in the first place , displacing all the people below their level .
Avoid large companies , unless that company got large while you worked there and you got in on the piece of the pie .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People who aspire to be corporate IT drones, mostly for large multinationals are asking for a let down much like their fellow corporate drones who arent MBA type con-artists who drove the economy downwards in the first place, displacing all the people below their level.
Avoid large companies, unless that company got large while you worked there and you got in on the piece of the pie.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30491300</id>
	<title>Re:Am I the only female on Slashdot?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261166940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First off, I'm the guy who never believes in doing something different to make it 'easier' on a group of people who can't do something as well as some other group.</p><p>I believe in racism, not hate.  I believe in sexism, again, not hate.</p><p>Certain races are better at certain things and worse at others, thats just reality.  Same is true for the sexes.  You can deny it all you want, doesn't change anything.  It also doesn't give anyone an excuse to dick someone else over in what we more typically associate with sexism and racism.</p><p>Wtih all that said, perhaps this is a prime example of where a mens boot camp and a womens boot camp would be a better idea.</p><p>I want my soldiers coming out of boot camp to know without a doubt they can depend on the people with them because thats what it takes when life is on the line.  You need complete trust that everyone on your side is going to do their part, and thats an important part of bootcamp.</p><p>I'm not saying that women get an easier boot camp, just different.  If what your post says is true in general (not just your experience which could have been a fluke) then we're getting women in the military but we're not getting good soldiers.  Boot camp has been around for a little while<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) and its been tailored to break men down and build them up as a team over god knows how many iterations to get to where it is now.</p><p>It might be time to figure out how to do the same thing focused on women.  They are (generally) emotionally different, and lets face it, like it or not a good part of bootcamp is emotional.  Perhaps there is a way to break women down and build them back up as one team, rather than several smaller groups all of which are full of people just concerned with themselves and not with the group in general.</p><p>In short, sounds like we need to fix the training for women so they come out as teammates on the same team, rather than several teams.  Then throw the guys and the women together and get them BOTH to work as one big team.  Maybe do it all together, but I'm going to guess that it would be more efficient to do the men one way and the women another as we are different beasts.  I want ever man woman and midget in the military to know that they can depend on any other man woman or midget to save their life when the time comes.</p><p>The experience you had leads me to believe that many men will not put a lot of faith in the women they trained with.</p><p>I wouldn't.  Why trust them with my life when they can't even get along in training?  Would you?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First off , I 'm the guy who never believes in doing something different to make it 'easier ' on a group of people who ca n't do something as well as some other group.I believe in racism , not hate .
I believe in sexism , again , not hate.Certain races are better at certain things and worse at others , thats just reality .
Same is true for the sexes .
You can deny it all you want , does n't change anything .
It also does n't give anyone an excuse to dick someone else over in what we more typically associate with sexism and racism.Wtih all that said , perhaps this is a prime example of where a mens boot camp and a womens boot camp would be a better idea.I want my soldiers coming out of boot camp to know without a doubt they can depend on the people with them because thats what it takes when life is on the line .
You need complete trust that everyone on your side is going to do their part , and thats an important part of bootcamp.I 'm not saying that women get an easier boot camp , just different .
If what your post says is true in general ( not just your experience which could have been a fluke ) then we 're getting women in the military but we 're not getting good soldiers .
Boot camp has been around for a little while : ) and its been tailored to break men down and build them up as a team over god knows how many iterations to get to where it is now.It might be time to figure out how to do the same thing focused on women .
They are ( generally ) emotionally different , and lets face it , like it or not a good part of bootcamp is emotional .
Perhaps there is a way to break women down and build them back up as one team , rather than several smaller groups all of which are full of people just concerned with themselves and not with the group in general.In short , sounds like we need to fix the training for women so they come out as teammates on the same team , rather than several teams .
Then throw the guys and the women together and get them BOTH to work as one big team .
Maybe do it all together , but I 'm going to guess that it would be more efficient to do the men one way and the women another as we are different beasts .
I want ever man woman and midget in the military to know that they can depend on any other man woman or midget to save their life when the time comes.The experience you had leads me to believe that many men will not put a lot of faith in the women they trained with.I would n't .
Why trust them with my life when they ca n't even get along in training ?
Would you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First off, I'm the guy who never believes in doing something different to make it 'easier' on a group of people who can't do something as well as some other group.I believe in racism, not hate.
I believe in sexism, again, not hate.Certain races are better at certain things and worse at others, thats just reality.
Same is true for the sexes.
You can deny it all you want, doesn't change anything.
It also doesn't give anyone an excuse to dick someone else over in what we more typically associate with sexism and racism.Wtih all that said, perhaps this is a prime example of where a mens boot camp and a womens boot camp would be a better idea.I want my soldiers coming out of boot camp to know without a doubt they can depend on the people with them because thats what it takes when life is on the line.
You need complete trust that everyone on your side is going to do their part, and thats an important part of bootcamp.I'm not saying that women get an easier boot camp, just different.
If what your post says is true in general (not just your experience which could have been a fluke) then we're getting women in the military but we're not getting good soldiers.
Boot camp has been around for a little while :) and its been tailored to break men down and build them up as a team over god knows how many iterations to get to where it is now.It might be time to figure out how to do the same thing focused on women.
They are (generally) emotionally different, and lets face it, like it or not a good part of bootcamp is emotional.
Perhaps there is a way to break women down and build them back up as one team, rather than several smaller groups all of which are full of people just concerned with themselves and not with the group in general.In short, sounds like we need to fix the training for women so they come out as teammates on the same team, rather than several teams.
Then throw the guys and the women together and get them BOTH to work as one big team.
Maybe do it all together, but I'm going to guess that it would be more efficient to do the men one way and the women another as we are different beasts.
I want ever man woman and midget in the military to know that they can depend on any other man woman or midget to save their life when the time comes.The experience you had leads me to believe that many men will not put a lot of faith in the women they trained with.I wouldn't.
Why trust them with my life when they can't even get along in training?
Would you?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30482736</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479950</id>
	<title>Re:Oh please...</title>
	<author>Storchei</author>
	<datestamp>1261047600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If a woman wants to do something in IT, fine. If she doesn't, fine. If you want to look for gender-based discrimination, look elsewhere.</p></div><p>
I agree!<br>
I've been working for about 6 years in the IT market, and have seen many companies. I really don't think there exist gender issues in the IT market, apart from specific cases.<br> <br>
<b>I think someone is looking for problems where there there are none!!</b> <br>
Besides, WHY has to be as many women as men in the IT industry? It's completely pointless. If you are a woman/man and want to work in the IT business I think you have equal chances.<br>
Using the criteria this article proposes, one could say <b>Kindergarden industry discriminates men</b>, because it's proven that more than 99\% of kindergarden teachers are women (at least in my country). In fact, it's rare to find a kindergarden teacher man. We (men) can say the same about:<br>
* Hairdresser's shop<br>
* Manicures/pedicures<br>
* Baby sitters<br>
* Clothes Stores<br>
* Perfume Stores<br>
* House keeping and other employment services<br>
* Secretaries / Executive Secretaries<br>
* Human Resources<br>
<br><nobr> <wbr></nobr>..among many others, which is in fact stupid.<br>
If you cannot develop yourself in the industry you want then complain, otherwise "GET-A-LIFE"! In my humble opinion, IT industry does not discriminate genders.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If a woman wants to do something in IT , fine .
If she does n't , fine .
If you want to look for gender-based discrimination , look elsewhere .
I agree !
I 've been working for about 6 years in the IT market , and have seen many companies .
I really do n't think there exist gender issues in the IT market , apart from specific cases .
I think someone is looking for problems where there there are none ! !
Besides , WHY has to be as many women as men in the IT industry ?
It 's completely pointless .
If you are a woman/man and want to work in the IT business I think you have equal chances .
Using the criteria this article proposes , one could say Kindergarden industry discriminates men , because it 's proven that more than 99 \ % of kindergarden teachers are women ( at least in my country ) .
In fact , it 's rare to find a kindergarden teacher man .
We ( men ) can say the same about : * Hairdresser 's shop * Manicures/pedicures * Baby sitters * Clothes Stores * Perfume Stores * House keeping and other employment services * Secretaries / Executive Secretaries * Human Resources ..among many others , which is in fact stupid .
If you can not develop yourself in the industry you want then complain , otherwise " GET-A-LIFE " !
In my humble opinion , IT industry does not discriminate genders .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If a woman wants to do something in IT, fine.
If she doesn't, fine.
If you want to look for gender-based discrimination, look elsewhere.
I agree!
I've been working for about 6 years in the IT market, and have seen many companies.
I really don't think there exist gender issues in the IT market, apart from specific cases.
I think someone is looking for problems where there there are none!!
Besides, WHY has to be as many women as men in the IT industry?
It's completely pointless.
If you are a woman/man and want to work in the IT business I think you have equal chances.
Using the criteria this article proposes, one could say Kindergarden industry discriminates men, because it's proven that more than 99\% of kindergarden teachers are women (at least in my country).
In fact, it's rare to find a kindergarden teacher man.
We (men) can say the same about:
* Hairdresser's shop
* Manicures/pedicures
* Baby sitters
* Clothes Stores
* Perfume Stores
* House keeping and other employment services
* Secretaries / Executive Secretaries
* Human Resources
 ..among many others, which is in fact stupid.
If you cannot develop yourself in the industry you want then complain, otherwise "GET-A-LIFE"!
In my humble opinion, IT industry does not discriminate genders.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481328</id>
	<title>Re:From a phsychological point of view...</title>
	<author>Fulcrum of Evil</author>
	<datestamp>1261054620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> <i>We all know men and women are different</i> </p><p>No, we don't all know this.  More specifically, we don't all "know" that differences that superficially exist matter in some material way to whether or not someone can have a meaningful and productive career in a particular area; we also don't "know" that those apparent differences are biological, as opposed to socially conditioned (and thus, whether we should simply accept them, or challenge as a regrettable and changeable part of the status quo).</p></div><p>Sure we do. hormones affect a whole lot of the boy/girl differences, as evidenced by people going through sex change ops - M2F lose some spatial ability and gain insight into peoples' facial expressions and empathy. It isn't black and white, but there's no point in denying it. I suppose next you'll go campaigning for men to carry the fetus part time.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We all know men and women are different No , we do n't all know this .
More specifically , we do n't all " know " that differences that superficially exist matter in some material way to whether or not someone can have a meaningful and productive career in a particular area ; we also do n't " know " that those apparent differences are biological , as opposed to socially conditioned ( and thus , whether we should simply accept them , or challenge as a regrettable and changeable part of the status quo ) .Sure we do .
hormones affect a whole lot of the boy/girl differences , as evidenced by people going through sex change ops - M2F lose some spatial ability and gain insight into peoples ' facial expressions and empathy .
It is n't black and white , but there 's no point in denying it .
I suppose next you 'll go campaigning for men to carry the fetus part time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> We all know men and women are different No, we don't all know this.
More specifically, we don't all "know" that differences that superficially exist matter in some material way to whether or not someone can have a meaningful and productive career in a particular area; we also don't "know" that those apparent differences are biological, as opposed to socially conditioned (and thus, whether we should simply accept them, or challenge as a regrettable and changeable part of the status quo).Sure we do.
hormones affect a whole lot of the boy/girl differences, as evidenced by people going through sex change ops - M2F lose some spatial ability and gain insight into peoples' facial expressions and empathy.
It isn't black and white, but there's no point in denying it.
I suppose next you'll go campaigning for men to carry the fetus part time.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479428</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30484408</id>
	<title>in a similar place</title>
	<author>Goldsmith</author>
	<datestamp>1261168320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Physics is in a similar place.</p><p>The sooner IT people start realizing that this debate has nothing to do with gender, and everything to do with professionalism and quality of life, the better off everyone will be.</p><p>Let me explain how physics works, and see if this sounds like IT:</p><p>If you're just starting out, you are most likely being asked to do things that you really shouldn't be doing.  If you're managing others, you are most likely asking the people below you to do things you had to do in the past, but they probably shouldn't be doing.  People with family are not expected to do as much work, but are automatically cut off from the best projects and jobs.  Efficiency and quantity of work are the only real measures of professional advancement.  The exceptions to this are by definition in the "weak," "uncompetitive" areas.  These "weak" people living close to normal lives are made fun of by the late night shift.</p><p>The people (in physics this would be Congress) positing that gender is the issue are disingenuous.  They don't want to face the realities of what it would take to relieve the job competition and make the field attractive to a broader cross section of people.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Physics is in a similar place.The sooner IT people start realizing that this debate has nothing to do with gender , and everything to do with professionalism and quality of life , the better off everyone will be.Let me explain how physics works , and see if this sounds like IT : If you 're just starting out , you are most likely being asked to do things that you really should n't be doing .
If you 're managing others , you are most likely asking the people below you to do things you had to do in the past , but they probably should n't be doing .
People with family are not expected to do as much work , but are automatically cut off from the best projects and jobs .
Efficiency and quantity of work are the only real measures of professional advancement .
The exceptions to this are by definition in the " weak , " " uncompetitive " areas .
These " weak " people living close to normal lives are made fun of by the late night shift.The people ( in physics this would be Congress ) positing that gender is the issue are disingenuous .
They do n't want to face the realities of what it would take to relieve the job competition and make the field attractive to a broader cross section of people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Physics is in a similar place.The sooner IT people start realizing that this debate has nothing to do with gender, and everything to do with professionalism and quality of life, the better off everyone will be.Let me explain how physics works, and see if this sounds like IT:If you're just starting out, you are most likely being asked to do things that you really shouldn't be doing.
If you're managing others, you are most likely asking the people below you to do things you had to do in the past, but they probably shouldn't be doing.
People with family are not expected to do as much work, but are automatically cut off from the best projects and jobs.
Efficiency and quantity of work are the only real measures of professional advancement.
The exceptions to this are by definition in the "weak," "uncompetitive" areas.
These "weak" people living close to normal lives are made fun of by the late night shift.The people (in physics this would be Congress) positing that gender is the issue are disingenuous.
They don't want to face the realities of what it would take to relieve the job competition and make the field attractive to a broader cross section of people.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479988</id>
	<title>Re:Are you kidding?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261047720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you can't take the heat, better stay in the kitchen! Ha Ha Ha!!!</p><p>I'd be back to check for your reply to my sexist comment, but I have to stay at the office all night programming something for the boss again. I hope my friend doesn't forget to feed my cat like last time. Maybe this year my boss will let me spend Christmas with my parents instead of at the office.</p><p>Help! Trapped!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you ca n't take the heat , better stay in the kitchen !
Ha Ha Ha ! !
! I 'd be back to check for your reply to my sexist comment , but I have to stay at the office all night programming something for the boss again .
I hope my friend does n't forget to feed my cat like last time .
Maybe this year my boss will let me spend Christmas with my parents instead of at the office.Help !
Trapped !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you can't take the heat, better stay in the kitchen!
Ha Ha Ha!!
!I'd be back to check for your reply to my sexist comment, but I have to stay at the office all night programming something for the boss again.
I hope my friend doesn't forget to feed my cat like last time.
Maybe this year my boss will let me spend Christmas with my parents instead of at the office.Help!
Trapped!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30483534</id>
	<title>Re:Are you kidding?</title>
	<author>Kingrames</author>
	<datestamp>1261070700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You think teaching will be less stressful? Ha!<br>
No shell script will save you from your fate.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You think teaching will be less stressful ?
Ha ! No shell script will save you from your fate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You think teaching will be less stressful?
Ha!
No shell script will save you from your fate.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480004</id>
	<title>Re:Are you kidding?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261047780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>pics plx</htmltext>
<tokenext>pics plx</tokentext>
<sentencetext>pics plx</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30482314</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261060320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Life isn't fair. I will never be a champion marathon runner but I don't suppose rampant racism because the Kenyans always win.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Life is n't fair .
I will never be a champion marathon runner but I do n't suppose rampant racism because the Kenyans always win .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Life isn't fair.
I will never be a champion marathon runner but I don't suppose rampant racism because the Kenyans always win.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481038</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480490</id>
	<title>Re:Oh please...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261049760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>A bit of advice if you really feel this way; stop posting to these threads and start modding this type of story down. If people are really sick of it these articles will never make the front page. Otherwise, if you think it's a non-issue why are you bothering in the first place?</htmltext>
<tokenext>A bit of advice if you really feel this way ; stop posting to these threads and start modding this type of story down .
If people are really sick of it these articles will never make the front page .
Otherwise , if you think it 's a non-issue why are you bothering in the first place ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A bit of advice if you really feel this way; stop posting to these threads and start modding this type of story down.
If people are really sick of it these articles will never make the front page.
Otherwise, if you think it's a non-issue why are you bothering in the first place?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479590</id>
	<title>Re:From a phsychological point of view...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261046040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For that matter, we don't even know that men <i>are</i> more logical than women.  We know that many people think like you do, but people are notoriously bad at appraising their own strengths and weaknesses, so their conformity to the stereotype of "men are logical, women emotional" should also be seriously doubted.</p><p>Short version:  We can't have a good idea of whether men are more naturally inclined to jobs like programming until we've cleared away all the historical and cultural baggage keeping women out, so that natural gender-based inclination is the only cause left to explain the disparity.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For that matter , we do n't even know that men are more logical than women .
We know that many people think like you do , but people are notoriously bad at appraising their own strengths and weaknesses , so their conformity to the stereotype of " men are logical , women emotional " should also be seriously doubted.Short version : We ca n't have a good idea of whether men are more naturally inclined to jobs like programming until we 've cleared away all the historical and cultural baggage keeping women out , so that natural gender-based inclination is the only cause left to explain the disparity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For that matter, we don't even know that men are more logical than women.
We know that many people think like you do, but people are notoriously bad at appraising their own strengths and weaknesses, so their conformity to the stereotype of "men are logical, women emotional" should also be seriously doubted.Short version:  We can't have a good idea of whether men are more naturally inclined to jobs like programming until we've cleared away all the historical and cultural baggage keeping women out, so that natural gender-based inclination is the only cause left to explain the disparity.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479428</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30483558</id>
	<title>Re:umm yeah</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1261070820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>With 8 years developing using C++ and then C#, every female software developer that I've met was better than average. Yes, that's more than one.</p><p>Anecdotes are like that - everyone has plenty.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>With 8 years developing using C + + and then C # , every female software developer that I 've met was better than average .
Yes , that 's more than one.Anecdotes are like that - everyone has plenty .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With 8 years developing using C++ and then C#, every female software developer that I've met was better than average.
Yes, that's more than one.Anecdotes are like that - everyone has plenty.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479394</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30483516</id>
	<title>Re:Vaguely insulting</title>
	<author>frank\_adrian314159</author>
	<datestamp>1261070460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Gosh, you know, I wanted to go into nursing, but I changed my mind once I saw how horribly those blue-green scrubs smocks clash with the beige walls.</i> </p><p>So you're an interior designer now?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Gosh , you know , I wanted to go into nursing , but I changed my mind once I saw how horribly those blue-green scrubs smocks clash with the beige walls .
So you 're an interior designer now ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gosh, you know, I wanted to go into nursing, but I changed my mind once I saw how horribly those blue-green scrubs smocks clash with the beige walls.
So you're an interior designer now?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479544</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30486662</id>
	<title>Education or work environment?</title>
	<author>kria</author>
	<datestamp>1261149060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I admit, my data is a little stale - I graduated HS/College in 95/99.</p><p>I work at a defense contractor.  There's a little bit of sexism that seems to be primarily from older former military types, where I think it's less that I'm a female programmer than I'm a female programmer working on artillery software.  And the one time that I overheard a co-worker who got passed over for promotion in favor of me comment that to get his promotion he would have to change his gender.</p><p>In college, I was in the first class of women that they admitted.  (It was an all engineering and science university.)  To placate people, they accepted additional students equal to the number of women so that no one would whine that they could have gotten in, if it weren't for those girls.  The most sexism I had to put up with was actually from my Psych prof, of all people.  Other than that, I think the divide was more between the merely-geeky-enough-to-go-there and the ubergeek types.  Anyway, they opened up their pool of applicants and the average GPA went up quite a bit.</p><p>I was very lucky; we had conversations about this in college, given our environment.  I knew someone who's own father didn't want her to go to college because "you'll just get married and waste all that learning".  We all had to deal with teasing in high school, etc, but it's difficult to tell if it's the same as what other geeks went through, or worse for women.  Personal experiences are difficult to compare.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I admit , my data is a little stale - I graduated HS/College in 95/99.I work at a defense contractor .
There 's a little bit of sexism that seems to be primarily from older former military types , where I think it 's less that I 'm a female programmer than I 'm a female programmer working on artillery software .
And the one time that I overheard a co-worker who got passed over for promotion in favor of me comment that to get his promotion he would have to change his gender.In college , I was in the first class of women that they admitted .
( It was an all engineering and science university .
) To placate people , they accepted additional students equal to the number of women so that no one would whine that they could have gotten in , if it were n't for those girls .
The most sexism I had to put up with was actually from my Psych prof , of all people .
Other than that , I think the divide was more between the merely-geeky-enough-to-go-there and the ubergeek types .
Anyway , they opened up their pool of applicants and the average GPA went up quite a bit.I was very lucky ; we had conversations about this in college , given our environment .
I knew someone who 's own father did n't want her to go to college because " you 'll just get married and waste all that learning " .
We all had to deal with teasing in high school , etc , but it 's difficult to tell if it 's the same as what other geeks went through , or worse for women .
Personal experiences are difficult to compare .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I admit, my data is a little stale - I graduated HS/College in 95/99.I work at a defense contractor.
There's a little bit of sexism that seems to be primarily from older former military types, where I think it's less that I'm a female programmer than I'm a female programmer working on artillery software.
And the one time that I overheard a co-worker who got passed over for promotion in favor of me comment that to get his promotion he would have to change his gender.In college, I was in the first class of women that they admitted.
(It was an all engineering and science university.
)  To placate people, they accepted additional students equal to the number of women so that no one would whine that they could have gotten in, if it weren't for those girls.
The most sexism I had to put up with was actually from my Psych prof, of all people.
Other than that, I think the divide was more between the merely-geeky-enough-to-go-there and the ubergeek types.
Anyway, they opened up their pool of applicants and the average GPA went up quite a bit.I was very lucky; we had conversations about this in college, given our environment.
I knew someone who's own father didn't want her to go to college because "you'll just get married and waste all that learning".
We all had to deal with teasing in high school, etc, but it's difficult to tell if it's the same as what other geeks went through, or worse for women.
Personal experiences are difficult to compare.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30482290</id>
	<title>Women shouldn't have to put with all that bullshit</title>
	<author>jotaeleemeese</author>
	<datestamp>1261060140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And the only way it is going to happen is when people like you, that know how it is to be discriminated against, tell to all the geeks-nerds all the things they are failing to see.</p><p>"Growing a pair" is not a solution, it is pandering to the inadequacies, insecurities and prejudices of men in the field.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And the only way it is going to happen is when people like you , that know how it is to be discriminated against , tell to all the geeks-nerds all the things they are failing to see .
" Growing a pair " is not a solution , it is pandering to the inadequacies , insecurities and prejudices of men in the field .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And the only way it is going to happen is when people like you, that know how it is to be discriminated against, tell to all the geeks-nerds all the things they are failing to see.
"Growing a pair" is not a solution, it is pandering to the inadequacies, insecurities and prejudices of men in the field.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480564</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480104</id>
	<title>I would have hoped...</title>
	<author>CountBrass</author>
	<datestamp>1261048260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>...that in the 21st century we'd moved away from this kind of sexist nonsense.<br><br>If there aren't as many women in computing ("enough women" is a nonsense term: what's "enough") then it's because women don't want to be in computing.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...that in the 21st century we 'd moved away from this kind of sexist nonsense.If there are n't as many women in computing ( " enough women " is a nonsense term : what 's " enough " ) then it 's because women do n't want to be in computing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...that in the 21st century we'd moved away from this kind of sexist nonsense.If there aren't as many women in computing ("enough women" is a nonsense term: what's "enough") then it's because women don't want to be in computing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30483568</id>
	<title>Re:too many everyone</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261071000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't need a job. I want money.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't need a job .
I want money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't need a job.
I want money.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30478970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30483918</id>
	<title>Re:Another one of these??</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261075020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a woman who has worked in desktop support:<br>There's dismissed because you haven't proven yourself, and dismissed because you're a girl.</p><p>It may not be a majority of people doing it, but yes, there are people foolish enough to do the second.  I don't necessarily mean co-workers.  I mean higher-ups, clients, and others who don't work with me day in and day out, who assume on sight that after I confirm that they actually have a real problem, I will leave and someone will bring in "the real tech".  (To date, I have only had one person actually vocalize "But she's a chick," but yes, those were his exact words.  He said that directly to my supervisor, who quickly set him straight.)</p><p>Yes, this usually only lasts until I've fixed a problem or two for that person, but it is something that I'm aware of.<br>(Fortunately, in my current workplace, this is a pretty rare problem, but I'm currently supporting a small, fairly consistent population of workers, many of whom are female, in a relatively liberal part of the country.  I imagine serving the general population might be different, and that cultural expectations in different parts of the country may vary.)</p><p>As for finding ones place on the totem pole (re: grandparent post), I'm one of those whose mileage varies -- gaining the acceptance and respect of my coworkers was mostly the result of gaining a reputation for learning things quickly, being willing to ask questions and to help answer other people's questions, and being able to remember what it was we tried the last time.  I didn't have to be one bit more aggressive than my normal self, although I do find that I have to speak up when I think something's important.  (This is good for me, because while I'm not particularly a girly girl -- I'm more of the introverted geeky tomboy type -- I don't think I really have the instinct needed to "make the weakest one my bitch", and would not play well in that environment.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a woman who has worked in desktop support : There 's dismissed because you have n't proven yourself , and dismissed because you 're a girl.It may not be a majority of people doing it , but yes , there are people foolish enough to do the second .
I do n't necessarily mean co-workers .
I mean higher-ups , clients , and others who do n't work with me day in and day out , who assume on sight that after I confirm that they actually have a real problem , I will leave and someone will bring in " the real tech " .
( To date , I have only had one person actually vocalize " But she 's a chick , " but yes , those were his exact words .
He said that directly to my supervisor , who quickly set him straight .
) Yes , this usually only lasts until I 've fixed a problem or two for that person , but it is something that I 'm aware of .
( Fortunately , in my current workplace , this is a pretty rare problem , but I 'm currently supporting a small , fairly consistent population of workers , many of whom are female , in a relatively liberal part of the country .
I imagine serving the general population might be different , and that cultural expectations in different parts of the country may vary .
) As for finding ones place on the totem pole ( re : grandparent post ) , I 'm one of those whose mileage varies -- gaining the acceptance and respect of my coworkers was mostly the result of gaining a reputation for learning things quickly , being willing to ask questions and to help answer other people 's questions , and being able to remember what it was we tried the last time .
I did n't have to be one bit more aggressive than my normal self , although I do find that I have to speak up when I think something 's important .
( This is good for me , because while I 'm not particularly a girly girl -- I 'm more of the introverted geeky tomboy type -- I do n't think I really have the instinct needed to " make the weakest one my bitch " , and would not play well in that environment .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a woman who has worked in desktop support:There's dismissed because you haven't proven yourself, and dismissed because you're a girl.It may not be a majority of people doing it, but yes, there are people foolish enough to do the second.
I don't necessarily mean co-workers.
I mean higher-ups, clients, and others who don't work with me day in and day out, who assume on sight that after I confirm that they actually have a real problem, I will leave and someone will bring in "the real tech".
(To date, I have only had one person actually vocalize "But she's a chick," but yes, those were his exact words.
He said that directly to my supervisor, who quickly set him straight.
)Yes, this usually only lasts until I've fixed a problem or two for that person, but it is something that I'm aware of.
(Fortunately, in my current workplace, this is a pretty rare problem, but I'm currently supporting a small, fairly consistent population of workers, many of whom are female, in a relatively liberal part of the country.
I imagine serving the general population might be different, and that cultural expectations in different parts of the country may vary.
)As for finding ones place on the totem pole (re: grandparent post), I'm one of those whose mileage varies -- gaining the acceptance and respect of my coworkers was mostly the result of gaining a reputation for learning things quickly, being willing to ask questions and to help answer other people's questions, and being able to remember what it was we tried the last time.
I didn't have to be one bit more aggressive than my normal self, although I do find that I have to speak up when I think something's important.
(This is good for me, because while I'm not particularly a girly girl -- I'm more of the introverted geeky tomboy type -- I don't think I really have the instinct needed to "make the weakest one my bitch", and would not play well in that environment.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30482206</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30485568</id>
	<title>Re:I am seeing it.</title>
	<author>daeglin</author>
	<datestamp>1261141980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>As for respect, please.  management doesn't give a shit about anybody, what makes you so special?</p></div><p>Good IT workers can leave and find other place with better management that actually cares about people. Even at these times, Competent IT workers are very hard to find...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As for respect , please .
management does n't give a shit about anybody , what makes you so special ? Good IT workers can leave and find other place with better management that actually cares about people .
Even at these times , Competent IT workers are very hard to find.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As for respect, please.
management doesn't give a shit about anybody, what makes you so special?Good IT workers can leave and find other place with better management that actually cares about people.
Even at these times, Competent IT workers are very hard to find...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479192</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30482258</id>
	<title>Typical sexist excuses.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261059900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Describe your misogynist behaviour as "natural" ( "Do guys have to pretend not to be geeks" ) .</p><p>Ignore social consequences of misogynist behaviour ("And so what if it does?", "If girls don't want to go into computer science because of geeks, then so what?").</p><p>The irking think is that people (men?) utter these comments with a straight face.</p><p>Don't you guys have mothers, sisters and daughters? Do you think it is acceptable that they should have to deal with all this mindless sexism if they would want to pursue a technical career?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Describe your misogynist behaviour as " natural " ( " Do guys have to pretend not to be geeks " ) .Ignore social consequences of misogynist behaviour ( " And so what if it does ?
" , " If girls do n't want to go into computer science because of geeks , then so what ?
" ) .The irking think is that people ( men ?
) utter these comments with a straight face.Do n't you guys have mothers , sisters and daughters ?
Do you think it is acceptable that they should have to deal with all this mindless sexism if they would want to pursue a technical career ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Describe your misogynist behaviour as "natural" ( "Do guys have to pretend not to be geeks" ) .Ignore social consequences of misogynist behaviour ("And so what if it does?
", "If girls don't want to go into computer science because of geeks, then so what?
").The irking think is that people (men?
) utter these comments with a straight face.Don't you guys have mothers, sisters and daughters?
Do you think it is acceptable that they should have to deal with all this mindless sexism if they would want to pursue a technical career?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479376</id>
	<title>Re:I am seeing it.</title>
	<author>maxume</author>
	<datestamp>1261045380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He isn't grasping after his obsolete business model, he is abandoning it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He is n't grasping after his obsolete business model , he is abandoning it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He isn't grasping after his obsolete business model, he is abandoning it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479192</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479306</id>
	<title>As opposed to what exactly?</title>
	<author>zzyzx</author>
	<datestamp>1261045200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"only "boys" are stupid enough to go into a field that's globally-fungible, where entry-level salaries are declining, "</p><p>I'd like to know what fields out there are having increasing entry level salaries and can't be outsourced.  Most of the examples given - like plumbing - require the existence of other people making good salaries to pay for the services so if all manufacturing jobs go away, we're pretty doomed in general.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" only " boys " are stupid enough to go into a field that 's globally-fungible , where entry-level salaries are declining , " I 'd like to know what fields out there are having increasing entry level salaries and ca n't be outsourced .
Most of the examples given - like plumbing - require the existence of other people making good salaries to pay for the services so if all manufacturing jobs go away , we 're pretty doomed in general .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"only "boys" are stupid enough to go into a field that's globally-fungible, where entry-level salaries are declining, "I'd like to know what fields out there are having increasing entry level salaries and can't be outsourced.
Most of the examples given - like plumbing - require the existence of other people making good salaries to pay for the services so if all manufacturing jobs go away, we're pretty doomed in general.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479544</id>
	<title>Vaguely insulting</title>
	<author>SirGarlon</author>
	<datestamp>1261045920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't you think it is vaguely insulting to women to say they steer away from a career field is because they <em>don't like the decorating</em>?  What was that you were saying about stereotypes?</p><p>Gosh, you know, I wanted to go into nursing, but I changed my mind once I saw how horribly those blue-green scrubs smocks clash with the beige walls.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't you think it is vaguely insulting to women to say they steer away from a career field is because they do n't like the decorating ?
What was that you were saying about stereotypes ? Gosh , you know , I wanted to go into nursing , but I changed my mind once I saw how horribly those blue-green scrubs smocks clash with the beige walls .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't you think it is vaguely insulting to women to say they steer away from a career field is because they don't like the decorating?
What was that you were saying about stereotypes?Gosh, you know, I wanted to go into nursing, but I changed my mind once I saw how horribly those blue-green scrubs smocks clash with the beige walls.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30486628</id>
	<title>conclusion</title>
	<author>caincarter</author>
	<datestamp>1261148880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>so from the reading of this story (thread) and similar stories, the conclusion I've come to is that the ones complaining about the lack of women in IT jobs are men.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>so from the reading of this story ( thread ) and similar stories , the conclusion I 've come to is that the ones complaining about the lack of women in IT jobs are men .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>so from the reading of this story (thread) and similar stories, the conclusion I've come to is that the ones complaining about the lack of women in IT jobs are men.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479200</id>
	<title>From a phsychological point of view...</title>
	<author>LiquidMind</author>
	<datestamp>1261044780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We all know men and women are different, physically, psychologically, etc....so allow me to offer my viewpoint (these are gross generalizations, but I think you'll get the point)</p><p>Women act more based on emotions and feelings than guys do, whereas guys will act on logic and black &amp; white facts.  That's why you see more guys in fields like physics and mathematics, and more women in things like psychology, education, etc.  (it's also why guys are more sports-inclined and women prefer yapping about everything and nothing over coffee)</p><p>Based on this, I think it's perfectly natural to point out that computers fields (very fact- and logic-oriented) are dominated by guys....</p><p>Flame this if you have something meaningful to say, I love debates on male/female dynamics &amp; differences....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We all know men and women are different , physically , psychologically , etc....so allow me to offer my viewpoint ( these are gross generalizations , but I think you 'll get the point ) Women act more based on emotions and feelings than guys do , whereas guys will act on logic and black &amp; white facts .
That 's why you see more guys in fields like physics and mathematics , and more women in things like psychology , education , etc .
( it 's also why guys are more sports-inclined and women prefer yapping about everything and nothing over coffee ) Based on this , I think it 's perfectly natural to point out that computers fields ( very fact- and logic-oriented ) are dominated by guys....Flame this if you have something meaningful to say , I love debates on male/female dynamics &amp; differences... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We all know men and women are different, physically, psychologically, etc....so allow me to offer my viewpoint (these are gross generalizations, but I think you'll get the point)Women act more based on emotions and feelings than guys do, whereas guys will act on logic and black &amp; white facts.
That's why you see more guys in fields like physics and mathematics, and more women in things like psychology, education, etc.
(it's also why guys are more sports-inclined and women prefer yapping about everything and nothing over coffee)Based on this, I think it's perfectly natural to point out that computers fields (very fact- and logic-oriented) are dominated by guys....Flame this if you have something meaningful to say, I love debates on male/female dynamics &amp; differences....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30484900</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261132200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not to mention that almost all the tech guys I've met (and the few tech girls I've met for that matter) got into the field primarily because they enjoy messing around with computers, and if they weren't getting paid for it they'd still be doing it for free in their spare time anyway. Job satisfaction counts for a hell of a lot in my book - I actually read law at university and could be earning a lot more money as an unhappy lawyer than I'm earning as a happy developer, but I don't regret it at all. If that means I'm stupid then I'll take that hit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not to mention that almost all the tech guys I 've met ( and the few tech girls I 've met for that matter ) got into the field primarily because they enjoy messing around with computers , and if they were n't getting paid for it they 'd still be doing it for free in their spare time anyway .
Job satisfaction counts for a hell of a lot in my book - I actually read law at university and could be earning a lot more money as an unhappy lawyer than I 'm earning as a happy developer , but I do n't regret it at all .
If that means I 'm stupid then I 'll take that hit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not to mention that almost all the tech guys I've met (and the few tech girls I've met for that matter) got into the field primarily because they enjoy messing around with computers, and if they weren't getting paid for it they'd still be doing it for free in their spare time anyway.
Job satisfaction counts for a hell of a lot in my book - I actually read law at university and could be earning a lot more money as an unhappy lawyer than I'm earning as a happy developer, but I don't regret it at all.
If that means I'm stupid then I'll take that hit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30478998</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30483364</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1261068840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This sounds like the attitude of someone who benefits from things not being fair.</p></div><p>Who, the babysitters?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This sounds like the attitude of someone who benefits from things not being fair.Who , the babysitters ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This sounds like the attitude of someone who benefits from things not being fair.Who, the babysitters?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481038</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480700</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>DavidTC</author>
	<datestamp>1261050720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Men and women's brain generally work different. They tend to solve problems differently.</p><p>
Please note I in no way said they <b>couldn't</b> solve problems in some other way, it's just that they tend to different solutions.</p><p>
Computer programming lends itself to the way men solve problems.</p><p>
In fact, it's almost a parody of how men solve problems, and it's not a coincidence that computer programmers are more likely to be non-social loners....because people who are very very good at solving problems the way that programming are statistically more likely to be bad at solving problems in other ways. Same with the very high incidences of ADD.</p><p>
And, again, I'm not saying women couldn't think this way, or that plenty of women don't. It's just a lot less women then men who think that way normally, and hence less women then men will end up in the field.</p><p>
It's the same thing about teaching and caring professions, where women tend to end up a lot in. Men can certainly be compassionate and attentive, and plenty of them are that way to start with...but fewer than women.</p><p>
And, incidentally, I have no opinion if this different way of thinking nature or nurture.</p><p>
As society removes more and more institutional sexism, we've eventually going to realize that all jobs are not going to be 50\% men and 50\% women, because all jobs are not wanted equally.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Men and women 's brain generally work different .
They tend to solve problems differently .
Please note I in no way said they could n't solve problems in some other way , it 's just that they tend to different solutions .
Computer programming lends itself to the way men solve problems .
In fact , it 's almost a parody of how men solve problems , and it 's not a coincidence that computer programmers are more likely to be non-social loners....because people who are very very good at solving problems the way that programming are statistically more likely to be bad at solving problems in other ways .
Same with the very high incidences of ADD .
And , again , I 'm not saying women could n't think this way , or that plenty of women do n't .
It 's just a lot less women then men who think that way normally , and hence less women then men will end up in the field .
It 's the same thing about teaching and caring professions , where women tend to end up a lot in .
Men can certainly be compassionate and attentive , and plenty of them are that way to start with...but fewer than women .
And , incidentally , I have no opinion if this different way of thinking nature or nurture .
As society removes more and more institutional sexism , we 've eventually going to realize that all jobs are not going to be 50 \ % men and 50 \ % women , because all jobs are not wanted equally .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Men and women's brain generally work different.
They tend to solve problems differently.
Please note I in no way said they couldn't solve problems in some other way, it's just that they tend to different solutions.
Computer programming lends itself to the way men solve problems.
In fact, it's almost a parody of how men solve problems, and it's not a coincidence that computer programmers are more likely to be non-social loners....because people who are very very good at solving problems the way that programming are statistically more likely to be bad at solving problems in other ways.
Same with the very high incidences of ADD.
And, again, I'm not saying women couldn't think this way, or that plenty of women don't.
It's just a lot less women then men who think that way normally, and hence less women then men will end up in the field.
It's the same thing about teaching and caring professions, where women tend to end up a lot in.
Men can certainly be compassionate and attentive, and plenty of them are that way to start with...but fewer than women.
And, incidentally, I have no opinion if this different way of thinking nature or nurture.
As society removes more and more institutional sexism, we've eventually going to realize that all jobs are not going to be 50\% men and 50\% women, because all jobs are not wanted equally.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480136</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30484588</id>
	<title>What tech needs is a pinch of evil.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261128780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's enjoyable to be a lawyer because you have the power to lock an innocent person to jail.<br> <br>
It's enjoyable to be an investment banker because you have the power to turn stupid people into debt slaves.<br> <br>
It's enjoyable to be a tech worker because ????<br> <br>
If we can find out the ???? part, the next step is profit!</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's enjoyable to be a lawyer because you have the power to lock an innocent person to jail .
It 's enjoyable to be an investment banker because you have the power to turn stupid people into debt slaves .
It 's enjoyable to be a tech worker because ? ? ? ?
If we can find out the ? ? ? ?
part , the next step is profit !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's enjoyable to be a lawyer because you have the power to lock an innocent person to jail.
It's enjoyable to be an investment banker because you have the power to turn stupid people into debt slaves.
It's enjoyable to be a tech worker because ????
If we can find out the ????
part, the next step is profit!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479406</id>
	<title>Sausagefest</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261045500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is "News for <i>Nerds</i>", remember? If anyone thinks they will get a fair look when the message suggests men dominate the IT industry need only do a Google image search on the word 'nerd'. I think I found one or two females on the second page of results.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is " News for Nerds " , remember ?
If anyone thinks they will get a fair look when the message suggests men dominate the IT industry need only do a Google image search on the word 'nerd' .
I think I found one or two females on the second page of results .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is "News for Nerds", remember?
If anyone thinks they will get a fair look when the message suggests men dominate the IT industry need only do a Google image search on the word 'nerd'.
I think I found one or two females on the second page of results.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479868</id>
	<title>Re:From a phsychological point of view...</title>
	<author>pb</author>
	<datestamp>1261047180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So your comment is proof that we don't <i>all</i> know this already, but some of us do, thanks, and and an article <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2711771/" title="nih.gov">about that</a> [nih.gov] would be much more interesting than this better-career-choice food fight fare.</p><p>Yes, there are significant biological differences between the brains of men and women... different hormones, different development, different structure. Actually, the way a man's brain works is more like the way a computer works, because there is more localized processing taking place; the way a woman's brain works is more like the way a computer network would work, because there are more connections and communication between processing centers. Two different designs, two different results, and if there were more articles about that than about this garbage, then no one would be surprised.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So your comment is proof that we do n't all know this already , but some of us do , thanks , and and an article about that [ nih.gov ] would be much more interesting than this better-career-choice food fight fare.Yes , there are significant biological differences between the brains of men and women... different hormones , different development , different structure .
Actually , the way a man 's brain works is more like the way a computer works , because there is more localized processing taking place ; the way a woman 's brain works is more like the way a computer network would work , because there are more connections and communication between processing centers .
Two different designs , two different results , and if there were more articles about that than about this garbage , then no one would be surprised .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So your comment is proof that we don't all know this already, but some of us do, thanks, and and an article about that [nih.gov] would be much more interesting than this better-career-choice food fight fare.Yes, there are significant biological differences between the brains of men and women... different hormones, different development, different structure.
Actually, the way a man's brain works is more like the way a computer works, because there is more localized processing taking place; the way a woman's brain works is more like the way a computer network would work, because there are more connections and communication between processing centers.
Two different designs, two different results, and if there were more articles about that than about this garbage, then no one would be surprised.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479428</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481448</id>
	<title>Re:Garbage men..</title>
	<author>dbIII</author>
	<datestamp>1261055280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think we see this story because there is an odd disconnection going on somewhere.  When I studied engineering in the late 1980s I did a few computer science subjects, and more than half of the computer science students enrolled were women.  Where did they all go?<br>They were interested in computers otherwise they would not be comitting years of their lives to study them so something else has been going on.  I can understand that being a 24/7 on call sysadmin is not an attractive role for women with small children but that is in the minority of IT jobs in the minority of workplaces.  You don't see many women in 9 to 5 developer roles either.  To be frank I see a far greater proportion of women on geological feild crews, and a far greater proportion again as geophysicists.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think we see this story because there is an odd disconnection going on somewhere .
When I studied engineering in the late 1980s I did a few computer science subjects , and more than half of the computer science students enrolled were women .
Where did they all go ? They were interested in computers otherwise they would not be comitting years of their lives to study them so something else has been going on .
I can understand that being a 24/7 on call sysadmin is not an attractive role for women with small children but that is in the minority of IT jobs in the minority of workplaces .
You do n't see many women in 9 to 5 developer roles either .
To be frank I see a far greater proportion of women on geological feild crews , and a far greater proportion again as geophysicists .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think we see this story because there is an odd disconnection going on somewhere.
When I studied engineering in the late 1980s I did a few computer science subjects, and more than half of the computer science students enrolled were women.
Where did they all go?They were interested in computers otherwise they would not be comitting years of their lives to study them so something else has been going on.
I can understand that being a 24/7 on call sysadmin is not an attractive role for women with small children but that is in the minority of IT jobs in the minority of workplaces.
You don't see many women in 9 to 5 developer roles either.
To be frank I see a far greater proportion of women on geological feild crews, and a far greater proportion again as geophysicists.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479242</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30484570</id>
	<title>Re:Typical sexist excuses.</title>
	<author>mwvdlee</author>
	<datestamp>1261128540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The only thing that separates an IT-geek from a non-geek is his above average interrest in things of a technical nature.</p><p>Please explain why an interrest in technical things is sexist.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The only thing that separates an IT-geek from a non-geek is his above average interrest in things of a technical nature.Please explain why an interrest in technical things is sexist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only thing that separates an IT-geek from a non-geek is his above average interrest in things of a technical nature.Please explain why an interrest in technical things is sexist.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30482258</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479932</id>
	<title>Re:Oh please...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261047540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We can get over sexism when it's not longer happening. Until then, yes it does matter when somebody says, "You're a woman. What are you doing in computer science? Shouldn't you be at home cleaning?"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We can get over sexism when it 's not longer happening .
Until then , yes it does matter when somebody says , " You 're a woman .
What are you doing in computer science ?
Should n't you be at home cleaning ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We can get over sexism when it's not longer happening.
Until then, yes it does matter when somebody says, "You're a woman.
What are you doing in computer science?
Shouldn't you be at home cleaning?
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480564</id>
	<title>Another one of these??</title>
	<author>Rastl</author>
	<datestamp>1261050120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How often does this have to be said?  Yes, there are more men than women in IT.  Why is that?  Um, because?</p><p>Disclaimer - I'm a woman and I've worked in the IT field for almost 20 years.</p><p>Yes, I've found that in general IT is a boy's club.  I'm used to being the only woman in the group.  And I'm used to the crap that I have to put up with being the only woman.  I've been ignored, talked over, dismissed (well, they tried that), and generally excluded.  It happens.  Grow a pair.</p><p>No one is going to go out of their way to make women feel all warm and cozy.  So you can't use traditional female tactics to carve out your place.  And unfortunately that's what most women fall back on when faced with a difficult situation.</p><p>My way of making things tolerable is to take my place on the totem pole relatively early on.  I watch the personalities and, sad to say, make the weakest one my bitch.  Once I do that then I'm on my way to acceptance.  It's how they play, it's how I have to play.  YMMV</p><p>I've mentored women in IT and it isn't pretty.  But if they learn a few tricks they can at least stay long enough to find out if they like the work and can work in the environment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How often does this have to be said ?
Yes , there are more men than women in IT .
Why is that ?
Um , because ? Disclaimer - I 'm a woman and I 've worked in the IT field for almost 20 years.Yes , I 've found that in general IT is a boy 's club .
I 'm used to being the only woman in the group .
And I 'm used to the crap that I have to put up with being the only woman .
I 've been ignored , talked over , dismissed ( well , they tried that ) , and generally excluded .
It happens .
Grow a pair.No one is going to go out of their way to make women feel all warm and cozy .
So you ca n't use traditional female tactics to carve out your place .
And unfortunately that 's what most women fall back on when faced with a difficult situation.My way of making things tolerable is to take my place on the totem pole relatively early on .
I watch the personalities and , sad to say , make the weakest one my bitch .
Once I do that then I 'm on my way to acceptance .
It 's how they play , it 's how I have to play .
YMMVI 've mentored women in IT and it is n't pretty .
But if they learn a few tricks they can at least stay long enough to find out if they like the work and can work in the environment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How often does this have to be said?
Yes, there are more men than women in IT.
Why is that?
Um, because?Disclaimer - I'm a woman and I've worked in the IT field for almost 20 years.Yes, I've found that in general IT is a boy's club.
I'm used to being the only woman in the group.
And I'm used to the crap that I have to put up with being the only woman.
I've been ignored, talked over, dismissed (well, they tried that), and generally excluded.
It happens.
Grow a pair.No one is going to go out of their way to make women feel all warm and cozy.
So you can't use traditional female tactics to carve out your place.
And unfortunately that's what most women fall back on when faced with a difficult situation.My way of making things tolerable is to take my place on the totem pole relatively early on.
I watch the personalities and, sad to say, make the weakest one my bitch.
Once I do that then I'm on my way to acceptance.
It's how they play, it's how I have to play.
YMMVI've mentored women in IT and it isn't pretty.
But if they learn a few tricks they can at least stay long enough to find out if they like the work and can work in the environment.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480290</id>
	<title>Shocked, I say shocked...</title>
	<author>gedrin</author>
	<datestamp>1261049040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'd suspected it was true since highschool, but I guess women really aren't attracted to geeky things.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd suspected it was true since highschool , but I guess women really are n't attracted to geeky things .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd suspected it was true since highschool, but I guess women really aren't attracted to geeky things.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480550</id>
	<title>Re:The money issue is not as simple as stated</title>
	<author>Slashdot Parent</author>
	<datestamp>1261050000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The solution for many comp sci students is to double major comp sci with one of the above "demand" areas, pass the professional engineering exam, and then the money issue is a non issue.<br>[....]<br>My son's solution to the ratio issue is to attend a large university where there are more female students overall.</p></div><p>Why bother going somewhere with female students?  With a ChemE/CS double major, he's never going to see the light of day, anyhow.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The solution for many comp sci students is to double major comp sci with one of the above " demand " areas , pass the professional engineering exam , and then the money issue is a non issue. [ ... .
] My son 's solution to the ratio issue is to attend a large university where there are more female students overall.Why bother going somewhere with female students ?
With a ChemE/CS double major , he 's never going to see the light of day , anyhow .
; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The solution for many comp sci students is to double major comp sci with one of the above "demand" areas, pass the professional engineering exam, and then the money issue is a non issue.[....
]My son's solution to the ratio issue is to attend a large university where there are more female students overall.Why bother going somewhere with female students?
With a ChemE/CS double major, he's never going to see the light of day, anyhow.
;)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479164</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30485156</id>
	<title>Re:From a phsychological point of view...</title>
	<author>L4t3r4lu5</author>
	<datestamp>1261135860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As an Aspie, I can safely say that I have not noticed any of these signs of emotional state ever in my life.<br> <br>(Not an Asperger's diagnosee, just throwing more stereotypes into the mix! Being controversial is fun!)</htmltext>
<tokenext>As an Aspie , I can safely say that I have not noticed any of these signs of emotional state ever in my life .
( Not an Asperger 's diagnosee , just throwing more stereotypes into the mix !
Being controversial is fun !
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As an Aspie, I can safely say that I have not noticed any of these signs of emotional state ever in my life.
(Not an Asperger's diagnosee, just throwing more stereotypes into the mix!
Being controversial is fun!
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480400</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30491046</id>
	<title>Re:Oh please...</title>
	<author>MozeeToby</author>
	<datestamp>1261165980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's an artifact of evolution.  A tribe that sends all its women into battle (where some x\% of them get killed) will reproduce much more slowly than a tribe that sends its men.  A tribe with one woman and ten men can only make one baby a year.  A tribe with one man and ten women could make ten babies a year.  Which is why we instinctually have men fight wars, hunt, crab fish, etc... the cost of a male life is (on a societal level) less than a females.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's an artifact of evolution .
A tribe that sends all its women into battle ( where some x \ % of them get killed ) will reproduce much more slowly than a tribe that sends its men .
A tribe with one woman and ten men can only make one baby a year .
A tribe with one man and ten women could make ten babies a year .
Which is why we instinctually have men fight wars , hunt , crab fish , etc... the cost of a male life is ( on a societal level ) less than a females .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's an artifact of evolution.
A tribe that sends all its women into battle (where some x\% of them get killed) will reproduce much more slowly than a tribe that sends its men.
A tribe with one woman and ten men can only make one baby a year.
A tribe with one man and ten women could make ten babies a year.
Which is why we instinctually have men fight wars, hunt, crab fish, etc... the cost of a male life is (on a societal level) less than a females.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480600</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479600</id>
	<title>Re:I am seeing it.</title>
	<author>Lord Ender</author>
	<datestamp>1261046100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What position are you going to get into? Most jobs either pay far less, force you to work even more inconvenient hours, or stick you in a much less pleasant environment than an office...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What position are you going to get into ?
Most jobs either pay far less , force you to work even more inconvenient hours , or stick you in a much less pleasant environment than an office.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What position are you going to get into?
Most jobs either pay far less, force you to work even more inconvenient hours, or stick you in a much less pleasant environment than an office...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479564</id>
	<title>Re:Men aren&rsquo;t so dumb...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261045980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>how is free pizza not a good deal?</i> <p>
I'm diabetic, you insensitive clod!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>how is free pizza not a good deal ?
I 'm diabetic , you insensitive clod !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>how is free pizza not a good deal?
I'm diabetic, you insensitive clod!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479034</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481046</id>
	<title>If you're not in the field yet, run for it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261052820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Software is an insane asylum. Run for it and save your last vestitude of sanity before they trash your beautiful conscience minds in their horrid delusions. I say this... warn the others... before..a.sdgeawt029686------</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Software is an insane asylum .
Run for it and save your last vestitude of sanity before they trash your beautiful conscience minds in their horrid delusions .
I say this... warn the others... before..a.sdgeawt029686------</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Software is an insane asylum.
Run for it and save your last vestitude of sanity before they trash your beautiful conscience minds in their horrid delusions.
I say this... warn the others... before..a.sdgeawt029686------</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30483202</id>
	<title>Re:Coming Right Up</title>
	<author>aoteoroa</author>
	<datestamp>1261067100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Yep, this one sounds like it might be even as tame as your average climategate discussion.</p></div><p>Speaking of rational discussions I haven't seen a good comparison of databases recently.  I am building a database application.  Which server should I use?
MySQL,
Oracle,
Firebird. or
Postgres?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yep , this one sounds like it might be even as tame as your average climategate discussion.Speaking of rational discussions I have n't seen a good comparison of databases recently .
I am building a database application .
Which server should I use ?
MySQL , Oracle , Firebird .
or Postgres ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yep, this one sounds like it might be even as tame as your average climategate discussion.Speaking of rational discussions I haven't seen a good comparison of databases recently.
I am building a database application.
Which server should I use?
MySQL,
Oracle,
Firebird.
or
Postgres?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30478988</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480574</id>
	<title>Re:I am seeing it.</title>
	<author>Karna99</author>
	<datestamp>1261050180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I worked about 10 years in IT and eventually got laid off due to the usual BS.
I took a good 4 months to do some research and soul searching on exactly what was keeping me in IT.
Nothing really other than I felt this was were I ought to be. Do yourself a favour and divorce the thing that makes you money and the things you love.
</p><p>
Its my love of Computers and Technology that I pursued a CS degree and got into some serious student loans and ended up working in IT as a slave to idiot masters. The layoff was the best thing that ever happed. It made me evaluate life goals, work, money and the balance I really needed.
</p><p>
I ended up retooling myself to become a Business Analyst in the Banking Industry and found I make a lot more money and get treated much better in an established Industry than the relatively young IT. Also I found my CS Education and IT background gave me a significant edge in performance over people coming in from other streams. Computers are pretty much a part of every high level endeavour, your IT talents will be useful.

Guess what I am saying is if you love IT, but don't want to end up in the grind, aim for a double specialization and you will find you can still do IT along side your other job.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I worked about 10 years in IT and eventually got laid off due to the usual BS .
I took a good 4 months to do some research and soul searching on exactly what was keeping me in IT .
Nothing really other than I felt this was were I ought to be .
Do yourself a favour and divorce the thing that makes you money and the things you love .
Its my love of Computers and Technology that I pursued a CS degree and got into some serious student loans and ended up working in IT as a slave to idiot masters .
The layoff was the best thing that ever happed .
It made me evaluate life goals , work , money and the balance I really needed .
I ended up retooling myself to become a Business Analyst in the Banking Industry and found I make a lot more money and get treated much better in an established Industry than the relatively young IT .
Also I found my CS Education and IT background gave me a significant edge in performance over people coming in from other streams .
Computers are pretty much a part of every high level endeavour , your IT talents will be useful .
Guess what I am saying is if you love IT , but do n't want to end up in the grind , aim for a double specialization and you will find you can still do IT along side your other job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I worked about 10 years in IT and eventually got laid off due to the usual BS.
I took a good 4 months to do some research and soul searching on exactly what was keeping me in IT.
Nothing really other than I felt this was were I ought to be.
Do yourself a favour and divorce the thing that makes you money and the things you love.
Its my love of Computers and Technology that I pursued a CS degree and got into some serious student loans and ended up working in IT as a slave to idiot masters.
The layoff was the best thing that ever happed.
It made me evaluate life goals, work, money and the balance I really needed.
I ended up retooling myself to become a Business Analyst in the Banking Industry and found I make a lot more money and get treated much better in an established Industry than the relatively young IT.
Also I found my CS Education and IT background gave me a significant edge in performance over people coming in from other streams.
Computers are pretty much a part of every high level endeavour, your IT talents will be useful.
Guess what I am saying is if you love IT, but don't want to end up in the grind, aim for a double specialization and you will find you can still do IT along side your other job.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30482520</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261061700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree absolutely.

Reminds me of a story on the news a little while ago about how on average women weren't getting paid as much as men. I supposed we were all supposed to be outraged and stop listening by then, because when they went into the actual story it was simply that a large number of women were choosing lower paying jobs. Now, if there was a man and woman both doing the exact same work and the man was being paid more, then yes I would be disgusted, but we can't tell people that they HAVE to do certain jobs simply because it pays more money. It's not like the universities are rejecting female applicants to courses with high paying careers (in fact, I am now at university and most of my friends that are doing the higher paying courses are female). If women don't want to work in IT, then they don't have to work in IT. If women would rather get into a career that they enjoyed, but didn't necessarily pay as much, then that's their choice. And the same thing applies to men.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree absolutely .
Reminds me of a story on the news a little while ago about how on average women were n't getting paid as much as men .
I supposed we were all supposed to be outraged and stop listening by then , because when they went into the actual story it was simply that a large number of women were choosing lower paying jobs .
Now , if there was a man and woman both doing the exact same work and the man was being paid more , then yes I would be disgusted , but we ca n't tell people that they HAVE to do certain jobs simply because it pays more money .
It 's not like the universities are rejecting female applicants to courses with high paying careers ( in fact , I am now at university and most of my friends that are doing the higher paying courses are female ) .
If women do n't want to work in IT , then they do n't have to work in IT .
If women would rather get into a career that they enjoyed , but did n't necessarily pay as much , then that 's their choice .
And the same thing applies to men .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree absolutely.
Reminds me of a story on the news a little while ago about how on average women weren't getting paid as much as men.
I supposed we were all supposed to be outraged and stop listening by then, because when they went into the actual story it was simply that a large number of women were choosing lower paying jobs.
Now, if there was a man and woman both doing the exact same work and the man was being paid more, then yes I would be disgusted, but we can't tell people that they HAVE to do certain jobs simply because it pays more money.
It's not like the universities are rejecting female applicants to courses with high paying careers (in fact, I am now at university and most of my friends that are doing the higher paying courses are female).
If women don't want to work in IT, then they don't have to work in IT.
If women would rather get into a career that they enjoyed, but didn't necessarily pay as much, then that's their choice.
And the same thing applies to men.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480090</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481124</id>
	<title>Re:Coming Right Up</title>
	<author>defensor1</author>
	<datestamp>1261053180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>One calm, level headed discussion about the disparity of genders in the world of computer science where everyone agrees on the solution with no emotions, personal anecdotes, gender studies, <i> <b>centuries of suffrage</b> </i>, accusations, cherry picked statistics, flamebait quotes from message boards, reverse sexism or chauvinistic undertones trumpeted.</p></div><p>Would you be willing to sign my petition to end women's suffrage? Women have been suffering for years, it's time we finally ended it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>One calm , level headed discussion about the disparity of genders in the world of computer science where everyone agrees on the solution with no emotions , personal anecdotes , gender studies , centuries of suffrage , accusations , cherry picked statistics , flamebait quotes from message boards , reverse sexism or chauvinistic undertones trumpeted.Would you be willing to sign my petition to end women 's suffrage ?
Women have been suffering for years , it 's time we finally ended it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One calm, level headed discussion about the disparity of genders in the world of computer science where everyone agrees on the solution with no emotions, personal anecdotes, gender studies,  centuries of suffrage , accusations, cherry picked statistics, flamebait quotes from message boards, reverse sexism or chauvinistic undertones trumpeted.Would you be willing to sign my petition to end women's suffrage?
Women have been suffering for years, it's time we finally ended it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30478988</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480496</id>
	<title>this is /.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261049820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>CORRECTION:
<br>
<i>"Not Enough Women In Computing, Or Too Many Men?"</i>
<br>
Should be "Not Enough <b>Single</b>  Women In Computing, Or Too Many Men?"</htmltext>
<tokenext>CORRECTION : " Not Enough Women In Computing , Or Too Many Men ?
" Should be " Not Enough Single Women In Computing , Or Too Many Men ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>CORRECTION:

"Not Enough Women In Computing, Or Too Many Men?
"

Should be "Not Enough Single  Women In Computing, Or Too Many Men?
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480502</id>
	<title>Required reading for any gender/career story</title>
	<author>Citizen of Earth</author>
	<datestamp>1261049820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://glennsacks.com/blog/?p=621" title="glennsacks.com">http://glennsacks.com/blog/?p=621</a> [glennsacks.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //glennsacks.com/blog/ ? p = 621 [ glennsacks.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://glennsacks.com/blog/?p=621 [glennsacks.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481984</id>
	<title>I have worked on that basis all my working life.</title>
	<author>jotaeleemeese</author>
	<datestamp>1261058160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem with people in IT is that they don't know how to say NO.</p><p>I do know how, and that has ensured a long career while having a fulfilling life outside work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem with people in IT is that they do n't know how to say NO.I do know how , and that has ensured a long career while having a fulfilling life outside work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem with people in IT is that they don't know how to say NO.I do know how, and that has ensured a long career while having a fulfilling life outside work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479770</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481228</id>
	<title>Men do like programming more than women.</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1261053840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>News at 11.</p><p>You know the &ldquo;equality&rdquo; thing has shot way over its target, when women are told to somehow feel the need to get into jobs that most of them don&rsquo;t like (no offense to those who do like it<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:), to follow some purely male ideals of what resembles a high-status job.</p><p>I think it&rsquo;s not equality that is fucked up anymore. (Except for some old assholes in high positions.)<br>It&rsquo;s that true female values/interests are still seen as something &ldquo;lower&rdquo;.</p><p>Ask a woman what she *really* wants to do. What she dreams of. The goals in her life.<br>Then filter out the society-imposed expectations, that she does not really want.</p><p>After that, you will find, that for nearly all women, becoming a great programmer is one of the very least things she would ever want to do. Most women would I know hate doing programming and math, etc.</p><p>The things most women really want to do, are somehow seen as &ldquo;low-status&rdquo; in society. And that is what is wrong.</p><p>But what strikes me most, is that, independent from the genders, raising a child, is never seen as something special that deserves respect and payment. It should be the most important, best payed, and most prestigious job in the whole world!<br>After all, it actually IS the most important and hard job of all! And you can&rsquo;t even quit!<br>(Believe it or not, some people actually <em>like</em> having a child. How weird is <em>that</em>. &lt;/sarcasm&gt;)</p><p>Ok. Just my two cents.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>News at 11.You know the    equality    thing has shot way over its target , when women are told to somehow feel the need to get into jobs that most of them don    t like ( no offense to those who do like it : ) , to follow some purely male ideals of what resembles a high-status job.I think it    s not equality that is fucked up anymore .
( Except for some old assholes in high positions .
) It    s that true female values/interests are still seen as something    lower    .Ask a woman what she * really * wants to do .
What she dreams of .
The goals in her life.Then filter out the society-imposed expectations , that she does not really want.After that , you will find , that for nearly all women , becoming a great programmer is one of the very least things she would ever want to do .
Most women would I know hate doing programming and math , etc.The things most women really want to do , are somehow seen as    low-status    in society .
And that is what is wrong.But what strikes me most , is that , independent from the genders , raising a child , is never seen as something special that deserves respect and payment .
It should be the most important , best payed , and most prestigious job in the whole world ! After all , it actually IS the most important and hard job of all !
And you can    t even quit !
( Believe it or not , some people actually like having a child .
How weird is that .
) Ok. Just my two cents .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>News at 11.You know the “equality” thing has shot way over its target, when women are told to somehow feel the need to get into jobs that most of them don’t like (no offense to those who do like it :), to follow some purely male ideals of what resembles a high-status job.I think it’s not equality that is fucked up anymore.
(Except for some old assholes in high positions.
)It’s that true female values/interests are still seen as something “lower”.Ask a woman what she *really* wants to do.
What she dreams of.
The goals in her life.Then filter out the society-imposed expectations, that she does not really want.After that, you will find, that for nearly all women, becoming a great programmer is one of the very least things she would ever want to do.
Most women would I know hate doing programming and math, etc.The things most women really want to do, are somehow seen as “low-status” in society.
And that is what is wrong.But what strikes me most, is that, independent from the genders, raising a child, is never seen as something special that deserves respect and payment.
It should be the most important, best payed, and most prestigious job in the whole world!After all, it actually IS the most important and hard job of all!
And you can’t even quit!
(Believe it or not, some people actually like having a child.
How weird is that.
)Ok. Just my two cents.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479242</id>
	<title>Garbage men..</title>
	<author>RightSaidFred99</author>
	<datestamp>1261044900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Odd we don't see many stories about the global shortage in female garbage collectors.  Or janitors.  And isn't a little bit 90's to go with the whole "Whoah, those powerful women are just too smart to go into computers!  Girl powa!".  It's not going to get you laid, I promise.  Computers are a good field compared to most regardless of declining salaries or anything else.</p><p>Women aren't in computers because they tend not to be interested in it.  Whether this is socialization or genetics or some mixture is up for debate, and of course there are exceptions but we see the ratio of men to women in computing because men are interested in or gifted in computing at a ratio higher than women.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Odd we do n't see many stories about the global shortage in female garbage collectors .
Or janitors .
And is n't a little bit 90 's to go with the whole " Whoah , those powerful women are just too smart to go into computers !
Girl powa ! " .
It 's not going to get you laid , I promise .
Computers are a good field compared to most regardless of declining salaries or anything else.Women are n't in computers because they tend not to be interested in it .
Whether this is socialization or genetics or some mixture is up for debate , and of course there are exceptions but we see the ratio of men to women in computing because men are interested in or gifted in computing at a ratio higher than women .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Odd we don't see many stories about the global shortage in female garbage collectors.
Or janitors.
And isn't a little bit 90's to go with the whole "Whoah, those powerful women are just too smart to go into computers!
Girl powa!".
It's not going to get you laid, I promise.
Computers are a good field compared to most regardless of declining salaries or anything else.Women aren't in computers because they tend not to be interested in it.
Whether this is socialization or genetics or some mixture is up for debate, and of course there are exceptions but we see the ratio of men to women in computing because men are interested in or gifted in computing at a ratio higher than women.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30490362</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1261163580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've found most 'activists', be it feminists, environmentalists or whatever are generally worst at whatever they are fighting against than those they are fighting against.</p><p>99 out of 100 feminists are sexist as hell.</p><p>99 out of 100 environmentalists do more damage to the environment because of their own stupidity than I do in my approach which is basically to not care.</p><p>They are too focused on some tiny ass little aspect of the world to realize the big picture is 99 times out of 100 worse off because of their actions, not better.  Throw in the fact that we really do understand far less than we give ourselves credit for and half the time these activists go off doing things that hurt their cause more than anyone else.</p><p>Note: Feminists aren't the target of my post, activists are.  Hell, make this post about sexism if you want, cause if it bothers you, the problem is all yours, not anyone elses.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've found most 'activists ' , be it feminists , environmentalists or whatever are generally worst at whatever they are fighting against than those they are fighting against.99 out of 100 feminists are sexist as hell.99 out of 100 environmentalists do more damage to the environment because of their own stupidity than I do in my approach which is basically to not care.They are too focused on some tiny ass little aspect of the world to realize the big picture is 99 times out of 100 worse off because of their actions , not better .
Throw in the fact that we really do understand far less than we give ourselves credit for and half the time these activists go off doing things that hurt their cause more than anyone else.Note : Feminists are n't the target of my post , activists are .
Hell , make this post about sexism if you want , cause if it bothers you , the problem is all yours , not anyone elses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've found most 'activists', be it feminists, environmentalists or whatever are generally worst at whatever they are fighting against than those they are fighting against.99 out of 100 feminists are sexist as hell.99 out of 100 environmentalists do more damage to the environment because of their own stupidity than I do in my approach which is basically to not care.They are too focused on some tiny ass little aspect of the world to realize the big picture is 99 times out of 100 worse off because of their actions, not better.
Throw in the fact that we really do understand far less than we give ourselves credit for and half the time these activists go off doing things that hurt their cause more than anyone else.Note: Feminists aren't the target of my post, activists are.
Hell, make this post about sexism if you want, cause if it bothers you, the problem is all yours, not anyone elses.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481544</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479502</id>
	<title>Re:Oh please...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261045800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is all part of society's "war on men"--trying to make men responsible for everything that could be wrong in the culture.  Witness the recent probes on <a href="http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ii7Jj7Mr\_5MGbmGfoGK\_k10Ukh9AD9CL9FVG2" title="google.com" rel="nofollow">gender bias in college admissions</a> [google.com].  They wonder why colleges are not admitting the same proportion of women when they get twice as many applications from women as from men.  Nevermind the potential for a study to determine if female students apply to more schools than men (thus generating more applications) or whether admitting more women would serve anybody's best interests (including those of women).  Any reason to bash on men is fine, regardless of whether they are in the majority or if any actual discrimination is taking place.  And it's a worldwide phenomenon.  It's no wonder the <a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120696816&amp;ps=cprs" title="npr.org" rel="nofollow">herbivore</a> [npr.org] movement is taking hold.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is all part of society 's " war on men " --trying to make men responsible for everything that could be wrong in the culture .
Witness the recent probes on gender bias in college admissions [ google.com ] .
They wonder why colleges are not admitting the same proportion of women when they get twice as many applications from women as from men .
Nevermind the potential for a study to determine if female students apply to more schools than men ( thus generating more applications ) or whether admitting more women would serve anybody 's best interests ( including those of women ) .
Any reason to bash on men is fine , regardless of whether they are in the majority or if any actual discrimination is taking place .
And it 's a worldwide phenomenon .
It 's no wonder the herbivore [ npr.org ] movement is taking hold .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is all part of society's "war on men"--trying to make men responsible for everything that could be wrong in the culture.
Witness the recent probes on gender bias in college admissions [google.com].
They wonder why colleges are not admitting the same proportion of women when they get twice as many applications from women as from men.
Nevermind the potential for a study to determine if female students apply to more schools than men (thus generating more applications) or whether admitting more women would serve anybody's best interests (including those of women).
Any reason to bash on men is fine, regardless of whether they are in the majority or if any actual discrimination is taking place.
And it's a worldwide phenomenon.
It's no wonder the herbivore [npr.org] movement is taking hold.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479598</id>
	<title>But not all programming is IT</title>
	<author>SuperKendall</author>
	<datestamp>1261046100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>IT can be a harsh place for programmers, it is true.</p><p>That's why you are really better off if you can find a product development team to work on, where the software product is the star of the show instead of an abused supporting player.</p><p>But even IT *can* be good, you just have to figure out what niche to carve to make things better where you are.  It helps a ton if you understand the business and can propose technical things that really do help some function of the company.</p><p>Working it IT is a far more political environment, but it is possible to navigate within that structure.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>IT can be a harsh place for programmers , it is true.That 's why you are really better off if you can find a product development team to work on , where the software product is the star of the show instead of an abused supporting player.But even IT * can * be good , you just have to figure out what niche to carve to make things better where you are .
It helps a ton if you understand the business and can propose technical things that really do help some function of the company.Working it IT is a far more political environment , but it is possible to navigate within that structure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IT can be a harsh place for programmers, it is true.That's why you are really better off if you can find a product development team to work on, where the software product is the star of the show instead of an abused supporting player.But even IT *can* be good, you just have to figure out what niche to carve to make things better where you are.
It helps a ton if you understand the business and can propose technical things that really do help some function of the company.Working it IT is a far more political environment, but it is possible to navigate within that structure.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30501018</id>
	<title>The Mommy Track</title>
	<author>jhylkema</author>
	<datestamp>1261224240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Women in computing do the same thing that women in medicine, law and lots of other fields do:  Graduate, work for a few years, hook up with a guy and start popping out kids.  At that point, they work part-time if at all and all of their education is for naught.  That makes them even less apt to stay up all night for those coding marathons.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Women in computing do the same thing that women in medicine , law and lots of other fields do : Graduate , work for a few years , hook up with a guy and start popping out kids .
At that point , they work part-time if at all and all of their education is for naught .
That makes them even less apt to stay up all night for those coding marathons .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Women in computing do the same thing that women in medicine, law and lots of other fields do:  Graduate, work for a few years, hook up with a guy and start popping out kids.
At that point, they work part-time if at all and all of their education is for naught.
That makes them even less apt to stay up all night for those coding marathons.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30493852</id>
	<title>Re:From a phsychological point of view...</title>
	<author>DavidTC</author>
	<datestamp>1261134060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Men attempt to solve things mechanically. Which, when emotion get involved, and it's a social problem, translates to 'force', or at least threats thereof.</p><p>
Women solve things socially, so know a lot more options when they're faced with a social problem and become emotional.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Men attempt to solve things mechanically .
Which , when emotion get involved , and it 's a social problem , translates to 'force ' , or at least threats thereof .
Women solve things socially , so know a lot more options when they 're faced with a social problem and become emotional .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Men attempt to solve things mechanically.
Which, when emotion get involved, and it's a social problem, translates to 'force', or at least threats thereof.
Women solve things socially, so know a lot more options when they're faced with a social problem and become emotional.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480400</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480152</id>
	<title>Re:I am seeing it.</title>
	<author>RajivSLK</author>
	<datestamp>1261048500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Along a long enough timeline, everything gets commoditized, and IT workers are no exception.</i> </p><p>Not true. Some groups form professional organizations and rake in the big bucks by making it difficult for others to join and compete.  Lawyers, Doctors, Nurses, Pharmacists, Engineers are a few that have to certified by various professional organizations before one is allowed to practice.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Along a long enough timeline , everything gets commoditized , and IT workers are no exception .
Not true .
Some groups form professional organizations and rake in the big bucks by making it difficult for others to join and compete .
Lawyers , Doctors , Nurses , Pharmacists , Engineers are a few that have to certified by various professional organizations before one is allowed to practice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Along a long enough timeline, everything gets commoditized, and IT workers are no exception.
Not true.
Some groups form professional organizations and rake in the big bucks by making it difficult for others to join and compete.
Lawyers, Doctors, Nurses, Pharmacists, Engineers are a few that have to certified by various professional organizations before one is allowed to practice.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479192</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479276</id>
	<title>Re:Oh please...</title>
	<author>jimbolauski</author>
	<datestamp>1261045080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I do, it would be nice to see some more ladies at conferences that I can ogle instead of paying attention.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do , it would be nice to see some more ladies at conferences that I can ogle instead of paying attention .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I do, it would be nice to see some more ladies at conferences that I can ogle instead of paying attention.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481822</id>
	<title>I am woman, hear me roar</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261057140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm disappointed that such a shoddy excuse for "research" would come from my Alma Mater!  I'm a woman, who likes debating star trek, playing video games (except MMORG's, I hate them! Call me antisocial, but then, that just a translation of 'bitch' isn't it?), drinking unhealthy amounts of caffiene, and learning about all things science and technology-related.</p><p>The punchline:  Is that I was constantly discouraged by adults and peers to have any such fascinations with things.  In a medium-sized town in the 1980's, it was unacceptable to like things that were outside of the norm.  My parents didn't even think I was smarted enough for college, but maybe I would find a good husband while I was there.  I graduated with honors.  I paid for every f^cking semester on my own and I'm proud of who I am today.</p><p>So, it's not that women aren't interested, it's that they aren't encourage, and/or they don't realize all the options that are out there for them.  I really believe that times have changed.  Don't assume we're asking about computers to be polite, I for one really want to know.  I hope to have a daughter someday.  I hope she'll be an Astrophysicist, but if she wants to be a rodeo clown, that's ok.  You be the best damn rodeo clown you can be sugar!</p><p>By the way, I've been reading slashdot since 2000, but this is my first post.  I've kept my trap shut long enough, but I'll still remain anonymous for now.</p><p>End note</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm disappointed that such a shoddy excuse for " research " would come from my Alma Mater !
I 'm a woman , who likes debating star trek , playing video games ( except MMORG 's , I hate them !
Call me antisocial , but then , that just a translation of 'bitch ' is n't it ?
) , drinking unhealthy amounts of caffiene , and learning about all things science and technology-related.The punchline : Is that I was constantly discouraged by adults and peers to have any such fascinations with things .
In a medium-sized town in the 1980 's , it was unacceptable to like things that were outside of the norm .
My parents did n't even think I was smarted enough for college , but maybe I would find a good husband while I was there .
I graduated with honors .
I paid for every f ^ cking semester on my own and I 'm proud of who I am today.So , it 's not that women are n't interested , it 's that they are n't encourage , and/or they do n't realize all the options that are out there for them .
I really believe that times have changed .
Do n't assume we 're asking about computers to be polite , I for one really want to know .
I hope to have a daughter someday .
I hope she 'll be an Astrophysicist , but if she wants to be a rodeo clown , that 's ok. You be the best damn rodeo clown you can be sugar ! By the way , I 've been reading slashdot since 2000 , but this is my first post .
I 've kept my trap shut long enough , but I 'll still remain anonymous for now.End note</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm disappointed that such a shoddy excuse for "research" would come from my Alma Mater!
I'm a woman, who likes debating star trek, playing video games (except MMORG's, I hate them!
Call me antisocial, but then, that just a translation of 'bitch' isn't it?
), drinking unhealthy amounts of caffiene, and learning about all things science and technology-related.The punchline:  Is that I was constantly discouraged by adults and peers to have any such fascinations with things.
In a medium-sized town in the 1980's, it was unacceptable to like things that were outside of the norm.
My parents didn't even think I was smarted enough for college, but maybe I would find a good husband while I was there.
I graduated with honors.
I paid for every f^cking semester on my own and I'm proud of who I am today.So, it's not that women aren't interested, it's that they aren't encourage, and/or they don't realize all the options that are out there for them.
I really believe that times have changed.
Don't assume we're asking about computers to be polite, I for one really want to know.
I hope to have a daughter someday.
I hope she'll be an Astrophysicist, but if she wants to be a rodeo clown, that's ok.  You be the best damn rodeo clown you can be sugar!By the way, I've been reading slashdot since 2000, but this is my first post.
I've kept my trap shut long enough, but I'll still remain anonymous for now.End note</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480186</id>
	<title>Re:Are you kidding? [Off topic]</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261048620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Heads up: Your rather minimal website is not actually valid html5, due to a minor issue in the IE specific code. That code using a '--', but technically that ended the comment, making the next character a syntax error.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Heads up : Your rather minimal website is not actually valid html5 , due to a minor issue in the IE specific code .
That code using a '-- ' , but technically that ended the comment , making the next character a syntax error .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Heads up: Your rather minimal website is not actually valid html5, due to a minor issue in the IE specific code.
That code using a '--', but technically that ended the comment, making the next character a syntax error.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30484888</id>
	<title>Re:too many everyone</title>
	<author>substraction</author>
	<datestamp>1261132080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree that it doesn't deserve as much attention as it gets -- though I hope the number of men in computer science don't by sheer number, get rid of the competition (that would just be a shame). Personally, as a woman in computer science, I don't feel driven away by men. There's always someone who will rattle your cage but I don't think gender is the issue. I've had many male friends and I have to say that the types of conversations are definitely different than with my female friends, men and women also seem to work very differently in groups and have different ways of doing things as a whole -- I don't find that discouraging, though. Men and women are different in many ways but people are just individuals. I think it's more important to really wonder "Why?" rather than assume it's a matter of being frightened away. There's an archaic stereotype that says that men are more suited for math and science than women -- meanwhile, it's been proven that men and women are equally capable, only our brains come to the same conclusion in different ways. I think the problem is that our society needs to stop thinking in terms of stereotypes and maybe stop seeing the difference in gender all together. Then people might ask themselves: What does it matter that there are more men than women? Should that really be an issue? Should we try to see how many people there are of different races and religions in computer science next? -- Maybe that would make it more transparent that it's not the fact that there are more men that's the problem, it's the fact that people are even bothering to count and make judgment on it. Why are people keeping tabs? I think the fact that people are keeping count is more of a problem than the number difference between men and women in computing. If equality is what people want then they should know that it can't happen as long as anyone keeps count. If more men want to be in computing, what's the problem? Why does that have to be a show of unfairness? What if it's just a natural number difference? I don't see as many female farmers as male farmers. I don't see as many male teachers as female ones -- especially in high school. Stop counting: that's the real problem.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree that it does n't deserve as much attention as it gets -- though I hope the number of men in computer science do n't by sheer number , get rid of the competition ( that would just be a shame ) .
Personally , as a woman in computer science , I do n't feel driven away by men .
There 's always someone who will rattle your cage but I do n't think gender is the issue .
I 've had many male friends and I have to say that the types of conversations are definitely different than with my female friends , men and women also seem to work very differently in groups and have different ways of doing things as a whole -- I do n't find that discouraging , though .
Men and women are different in many ways but people are just individuals .
I think it 's more important to really wonder " Why ?
" rather than assume it 's a matter of being frightened away .
There 's an archaic stereotype that says that men are more suited for math and science than women -- meanwhile , it 's been proven that men and women are equally capable , only our brains come to the same conclusion in different ways .
I think the problem is that our society needs to stop thinking in terms of stereotypes and maybe stop seeing the difference in gender all together .
Then people might ask themselves : What does it matter that there are more men than women ?
Should that really be an issue ?
Should we try to see how many people there are of different races and religions in computer science next ?
-- Maybe that would make it more transparent that it 's not the fact that there are more men that 's the problem , it 's the fact that people are even bothering to count and make judgment on it .
Why are people keeping tabs ?
I think the fact that people are keeping count is more of a problem than the number difference between men and women in computing .
If equality is what people want then they should know that it ca n't happen as long as anyone keeps count .
If more men want to be in computing , what 's the problem ?
Why does that have to be a show of unfairness ?
What if it 's just a natural number difference ?
I do n't see as many female farmers as male farmers .
I do n't see as many male teachers as female ones -- especially in high school .
Stop counting : that 's the real problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree that it doesn't deserve as much attention as it gets -- though I hope the number of men in computer science don't by sheer number, get rid of the competition (that would just be a shame).
Personally, as a woman in computer science, I don't feel driven away by men.
There's always someone who will rattle your cage but I don't think gender is the issue.
I've had many male friends and I have to say that the types of conversations are definitely different than with my female friends, men and women also seem to work very differently in groups and have different ways of doing things as a whole -- I don't find that discouraging, though.
Men and women are different in many ways but people are just individuals.
I think it's more important to really wonder "Why?
" rather than assume it's a matter of being frightened away.
There's an archaic stereotype that says that men are more suited for math and science than women -- meanwhile, it's been proven that men and women are equally capable, only our brains come to the same conclusion in different ways.
I think the problem is that our society needs to stop thinking in terms of stereotypes and maybe stop seeing the difference in gender all together.
Then people might ask themselves: What does it matter that there are more men than women?
Should that really be an issue?
Should we try to see how many people there are of different races and religions in computer science next?
-- Maybe that would make it more transparent that it's not the fact that there are more men that's the problem, it's the fact that people are even bothering to count and make judgment on it.
Why are people keeping tabs?
I think the fact that people are keeping count is more of a problem than the number difference between men and women in computing.
If equality is what people want then they should know that it can't happen as long as anyone keeps count.
If more men want to be in computing, what's the problem?
Why does that have to be a show of unfairness?
What if it's just a natural number difference?
I don't see as many female farmers as male farmers.
I don't see as many male teachers as female ones -- especially in high school.
Stop counting: that's the real problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30478970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481300</id>
	<title>But women go to the mat for their families</title>
	<author>dirkdodgers</author>
	<datestamp>1261054440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In my experience women in IT are less willing to go to the mat for the team. I've never met a woman in IT willing to regularly work 16 hour days, willing to sleep in the office, or willing to pull all-nighters to meet a deadline.</p><p>But I don't think it has anything to do with intelligence. I think it has to do with genetic and culturally imposed priorities. It's still overwhelmingly the case that when the shit hits the fan for the team that counts, the kids, the family, that it's the woman who stays up all night, doesn't get to sleep more than 2 hours at a time, takes them to the doctor, picks them up at school, or drives them to practice.</p><p>I don't see why this is considered a problem. It was good enough to get us out of the trees, to the top of the food pyramid, and even to travel beyond our home planet. Obviously it works. And it's not as though the option isn't out there. Women certainly can choose not to have children, or certainly can hold out for a man who is willing to take on the majority of the burden of raising them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In my experience women in IT are less willing to go to the mat for the team .
I 've never met a woman in IT willing to regularly work 16 hour days , willing to sleep in the office , or willing to pull all-nighters to meet a deadline.But I do n't think it has anything to do with intelligence .
I think it has to do with genetic and culturally imposed priorities .
It 's still overwhelmingly the case that when the shit hits the fan for the team that counts , the kids , the family , that it 's the woman who stays up all night , does n't get to sleep more than 2 hours at a time , takes them to the doctor , picks them up at school , or drives them to practice.I do n't see why this is considered a problem .
It was good enough to get us out of the trees , to the top of the food pyramid , and even to travel beyond our home planet .
Obviously it works .
And it 's not as though the option is n't out there .
Women certainly can choose not to have children , or certainly can hold out for a man who is willing to take on the majority of the burden of raising them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my experience women in IT are less willing to go to the mat for the team.
I've never met a woman in IT willing to regularly work 16 hour days, willing to sleep in the office, or willing to pull all-nighters to meet a deadline.But I don't think it has anything to do with intelligence.
I think it has to do with genetic and culturally imposed priorities.
It's still overwhelmingly the case that when the shit hits the fan for the team that counts, the kids, the family, that it's the woman who stays up all night, doesn't get to sleep more than 2 hours at a time, takes them to the doctor, picks them up at school, or drives them to practice.I don't see why this is considered a problem.
It was good enough to get us out of the trees, to the top of the food pyramid, and even to travel beyond our home planet.
Obviously it works.
And it's not as though the option isn't out there.
Women certainly can choose not to have children, or certainly can hold out for a man who is willing to take on the majority of the burden of raising them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30485436</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the same.</title>
	<author>Aceticon</author>
	<datestamp>1261140540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A world without restrictions on the free movement of workers would have salaries and thus the quality of life (which is strongly correlated with average income which in turn is strongly correlated with average salaries) of everybody converging to the average quality of life in the world.</p><p>Given the distribution of population in the world, this would be somewhere slightly above the current average quality of life in China and India.</p><p>As selfish as it might seem, many of us in the "rich" world would rather not see our quality of life go down the a level slightly above your average Chinese city dweller.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A world without restrictions on the free movement of workers would have salaries and thus the quality of life ( which is strongly correlated with average income which in turn is strongly correlated with average salaries ) of everybody converging to the average quality of life in the world.Given the distribution of population in the world , this would be somewhere slightly above the current average quality of life in China and India.As selfish as it might seem , many of us in the " rich " world would rather not see our quality of life go down the a level slightly above your average Chinese city dweller .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A world without restrictions on the free movement of workers would have salaries and thus the quality of life (which is strongly correlated with average income which in turn is strongly correlated with average salaries) of everybody converging to the average quality of life in the world.Given the distribution of population in the world, this would be somewhere slightly above the current average quality of life in China and India.As selfish as it might seem, many of us in the "rich" world would rather not see our quality of life go down the a level slightly above your average Chinese city dweller.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30492920</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>DavidTC</author>
	<datestamp>1261129800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>A programmer has the advantage that they can mostly remain anonymous, if they don't want their bodies and/or personalities put on public display.</i> </p><p>
Even non-anonymous they're better off.</p><p>
In other jobs, jobs where you interact with the public, people have to dress nicely. With women, 'nicely' often requires 'sexy'. It is rather hard to find nice clothing that does not...um...show off various assets.</p><p>
Which is some sort of weird inherit societal sexism...men have the ability to dress up without being attractive, whereas women really don't. Or, rather, the 'formal' bar is a lot lower...women have to switch to wearing dresses and showing off legs and arms a lot sooner than men would  switch to custom tailored tuxedos and have professional hair stylists and makeup artists. We're going to visit our grandmother in a nice buttonup shirt and they're coming with us in a strapless dress, or possibly going to the Emmys, I'm not sure. But that's a topic for someone in woman's studies, if they can actually get off their asses and do something useful.</p><p>
But programming is a field in which, let's face it, people often dress like slobs. Often programmers have dress codes that actually allows this.</p><p>
A women, who would otherwise be somewhat attractive and get all sorts of unwanted attention paid to her body (instead of her job performance), can also join in and wear moderately baggy pants and baggy shirt, and no makeup, and, tada, she gets judged by what she does rather than what she looks like.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A programmer has the advantage that they can mostly remain anonymous , if they do n't want their bodies and/or personalities put on public display .
Even non-anonymous they 're better off .
In other jobs , jobs where you interact with the public , people have to dress nicely .
With women , 'nicely ' often requires 'sexy' .
It is rather hard to find nice clothing that does not...um...show off various assets .
Which is some sort of weird inherit societal sexism...men have the ability to dress up without being attractive , whereas women really do n't .
Or , rather , the 'formal ' bar is a lot lower...women have to switch to wearing dresses and showing off legs and arms a lot sooner than men would switch to custom tailored tuxedos and have professional hair stylists and makeup artists .
We 're going to visit our grandmother in a nice buttonup shirt and they 're coming with us in a strapless dress , or possibly going to the Emmys , I 'm not sure .
But that 's a topic for someone in woman 's studies , if they can actually get off their asses and do something useful .
But programming is a field in which , let 's face it , people often dress like slobs .
Often programmers have dress codes that actually allows this .
A women , who would otherwise be somewhat attractive and get all sorts of unwanted attention paid to her body ( instead of her job performance ) , can also join in and wear moderately baggy pants and baggy shirt , and no makeup , and , tada , she gets judged by what she does rather than what she looks like .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> A programmer has the advantage that they can mostly remain anonymous, if they don't want their bodies and/or personalities put on public display.
Even non-anonymous they're better off.
In other jobs, jobs where you interact with the public, people have to dress nicely.
With women, 'nicely' often requires 'sexy'.
It is rather hard to find nice clothing that does not...um...show off various assets.
Which is some sort of weird inherit societal sexism...men have the ability to dress up without being attractive, whereas women really don't.
Or, rather, the 'formal' bar is a lot lower...women have to switch to wearing dresses and showing off legs and arms a lot sooner than men would  switch to custom tailored tuxedos and have professional hair stylists and makeup artists.
We're going to visit our grandmother in a nice buttonup shirt and they're coming with us in a strapless dress, or possibly going to the Emmys, I'm not sure.
But that's a topic for someone in woman's studies, if they can actually get off their asses and do something useful.
But programming is a field in which, let's face it, people often dress like slobs.
Often programmers have dress codes that actually allows this.
A women, who would otherwise be somewhat attractive and get all sorts of unwanted attention paid to her body (instead of her job performance), can also join in and wear moderately baggy pants and baggy shirt, and no makeup, and, tada, she gets judged by what she does rather than what she looks like.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30483442</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480252</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocritical</title>
	<author>sexconker</author>
	<datestamp>1261048920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Institutional discrimination has not only been eliminated</p></div><p>No, it's just been flipped the other way.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Institutional discrimination has not only been eliminatedNo , it 's just been flipped the other way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Institutional discrimination has not only been eliminatedNo, it's just been flipped the other way.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479206</id>
	<title>Stupid enough?</title>
	<author>Cruciform</author>
	<datestamp>1261044780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>"where another researcher concludes that only "boys" are stupid enough to go into a field that's globally-fungible, where entry-level salaries are declining, and it's common to think that staying up all night for a company-paid pizza is a good deal.'"</p></div></blockquote><p>Does the job pay your bills at an acceptable standard of living?<br>Are you doing what you are good at?<br>Are you having fun?</p><p>If the answers above are all yes, then who gives a fuck what some researcher thinks.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" where another researcher concludes that only " boys " are stupid enough to go into a field that 's globally-fungible , where entry-level salaries are declining , and it 's common to think that staying up all night for a company-paid pizza is a good deal .
' " Does the job pay your bills at an acceptable standard of living ? Are you doing what you are good at ? Are you having fun ? If the answers above are all yes , then who gives a fuck what some researcher thinks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"where another researcher concludes that only "boys" are stupid enough to go into a field that's globally-fungible, where entry-level salaries are declining, and it's common to think that staying up all night for a company-paid pizza is a good deal.
'"Does the job pay your bills at an acceptable standard of living?Are you doing what you are good at?Are you having fun?If the answers above are all yes, then who gives a fuck what some researcher thinks.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30483000</id>
	<title>Re:Oh please...</title>
	<author>dcollins</author>
	<datestamp>1261065420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Of course. It's the old la-la-la-la-la can't-hear-you-fingers-in-my-ears defense. Works every time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course .
It 's the old la-la-la-la-la ca n't-hear-you-fingers-in-my-ears defense .
Works every time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course.
It's the old la-la-la-la-la can't-hear-you-fingers-in-my-ears defense.
Works every time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30486096</id>
	<title>Weeemon</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261146420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>... I call bull.

I have my undergraduate, and graduate degrees, in criminal justice, and more then 70\% of my classes were female. (I always joked about how I was told I was going into a male dominated field, and most of my classmates were females).

Now I'm going after a bachelor's in computer science, and 8 out of 14 in my current C.S. class are female.

And I'm at a large state university in the midwest.</htmltext>
<tokenext>... I call bull .
I have my undergraduate , and graduate degrees , in criminal justice , and more then 70 \ % of my classes were female .
( I always joked about how I was told I was going into a male dominated field , and most of my classmates were females ) .
Now I 'm going after a bachelor 's in computer science , and 8 out of 14 in my current C.S .
class are female .
And I 'm at a large state university in the midwest .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... I call bull.
I have my undergraduate, and graduate degrees, in criminal justice, and more then 70\% of my classes were female.
(I always joked about how I was told I was going into a male dominated field, and most of my classmates were females).
Now I'm going after a bachelor's in computer science, and 8 out of 14 in my current C.S.
class are female.
And I'm at a large state university in the midwest.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480262</id>
	<title>Too many, not enough, please...</title>
	<author>interval1066</author>
	<datestamp>1261048920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I can't believe that an industry in constant need of talented people would find too many of any kind of person a problem. Employers that I hear speak on the topic of hiring have one thing one their minds; filling empty seats. And let me touch on female engineering talent- in my 25+ years of Software Development I've had the pleasure of working with TWO talented female engineers. Why only two? Well, from my experience I think a lot of it has to do with a ridiculous cultural stigma American pop society puts on education. I have seen this all throughout my educational experience growing up in the 70's, and I'm sure its changed little; in fact I'd be willing to put up some good money its only gotten worse. I specifically recall a very popular girl in high school explaining to me how she was going to get through life with her ass so she didn't have to study, at all. Wonder where she's at now?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't believe that an industry in constant need of talented people would find too many of any kind of person a problem .
Employers that I hear speak on the topic of hiring have one thing one their minds ; filling empty seats .
And let me touch on female engineering talent- in my 25 + years of Software Development I 've had the pleasure of working with TWO talented female engineers .
Why only two ?
Well , from my experience I think a lot of it has to do with a ridiculous cultural stigma American pop society puts on education .
I have seen this all throughout my educational experience growing up in the 70 's , and I 'm sure its changed little ; in fact I 'd be willing to put up some good money its only gotten worse .
I specifically recall a very popular girl in high school explaining to me how she was going to get through life with her ass so she did n't have to study , at all .
Wonder where she 's at now ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't believe that an industry in constant need of talented people would find too many of any kind of person a problem.
Employers that I hear speak on the topic of hiring have one thing one their minds; filling empty seats.
And let me touch on female engineering talent- in my 25+ years of Software Development I've had the pleasure of working with TWO talented female engineers.
Why only two?
Well, from my experience I think a lot of it has to do with a ridiculous cultural stigma American pop society puts on education.
I have seen this all throughout my educational experience growing up in the 70's, and I'm sure its changed little; in fact I'd be willing to put up some good money its only gotten worse.
I specifically recall a very popular girl in high school explaining to me how she was going to get through life with her ass so she didn't have to study, at all.
Wonder where she's at now?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479822</id>
	<title>Re:umm yeah</title>
	<author>damien\_kane</author>
	<datestamp>1261047000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>With 15 years developing C++/.Net applications, I have run into ONE female developer <b>that was good</b>.  Just an observation.</p></div><p>
(emphasis mine)<br>
<br>
Right, so about 10\%.<br>
In my 10 years of development, at most 10\% of the devs I've seen walk through the doors in my company were any good, and it had nothing to do with sex.<br> <br>
It's a simple application of ratios. With a larger sample set (# of male programmers) you'll find a larger set of higher performing ones. The ratio of good programmers to poor programmers remains about the same.<br> <br>
To continue along the lines of your thinking; In 15 years, you've seen 9 poor female devs. My argument is that you've probably seen hundreds of poor male devs. By your logic, then, men are poorer programmers.<br>
Also, based on that logic, I would lump you in with them.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>With 15 years developing C + + /.Net applications , I have run into ONE female developer that was good .
Just an observation .
( emphasis mine ) Right , so about 10 \ % .
In my 10 years of development , at most 10 \ % of the devs I 've seen walk through the doors in my company were any good , and it had nothing to do with sex .
It 's a simple application of ratios .
With a larger sample set ( # of male programmers ) you 'll find a larger set of higher performing ones .
The ratio of good programmers to poor programmers remains about the same .
To continue along the lines of your thinking ; In 15 years , you 've seen 9 poor female devs .
My argument is that you 've probably seen hundreds of poor male devs .
By your logic , then , men are poorer programmers .
Also , based on that logic , I would lump you in with them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With 15 years developing C++/.Net applications, I have run into ONE female developer that was good.
Just an observation.
(emphasis mine)

Right, so about 10\%.
In my 10 years of development, at most 10\% of the devs I've seen walk through the doors in my company were any good, and it had nothing to do with sex.
It's a simple application of ratios.
With a larger sample set (# of male programmers) you'll find a larger set of higher performing ones.
The ratio of good programmers to poor programmers remains about the same.
To continue along the lines of your thinking; In 15 years, you've seen 9 poor female devs.
My argument is that you've probably seen hundreds of poor male devs.
By your logic, then, men are poorer programmers.
Also, based on that logic, I would lump you in with them.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479394</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479354</id>
	<title>Re:I am seeing it.</title>
	<author>spinkham</author>
	<datestamp>1261045320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Look to the high integrity side of the industry to avoid outsourcing pressure.<br>Military, banks, and other high risk organizations pay a premium for dependable in house talent with integrity.  If you can score a top security clearence w/ polygraph, you'll have employment for life.  If not, looking to high risk organizations usually leads to better treatment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Look to the high integrity side of the industry to avoid outsourcing pressure.Military , banks , and other high risk organizations pay a premium for dependable in house talent with integrity .
If you can score a top security clearence w/ polygraph , you 'll have employment for life .
If not , looking to high risk organizations usually leads to better treatment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look to the high integrity side of the industry to avoid outsourcing pressure.Military, banks, and other high risk organizations pay a premium for dependable in house talent with integrity.
If you can score a top security clearence w/ polygraph, you'll have employment for life.
If not, looking to high risk organizations usually leads to better treatment.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479902</id>
	<title>Re:Men aren&rsquo;t so dumb...</title>
	<author>Captain Vittles</author>
	<datestamp>1261047360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If you&rsquo;re doing something you enjoy, you&rsquo;re getting paid what you consider a reasonable recompense for your performance, and you stay up all night anyway... how is free pizza not a good deal?</p></div><p>Because as soon as you argue yourself into complying, it gets easier and easier for you manager to ask you to do it again.  And then it gets easier and easier to ask for such effort for tasks that are less and less worth the effort.  Then other departments see how projects still manage to get done within ridiculous time frames, and thus some idiot in a boardroom start assuming that the aforementioned ridiculous time frames are actually quite reasonable. That's when the <i>de rigueur</i> late nights now become <i>de facto</i> late nights.<br>
<br>
The worst part, though, is that you'll find yourself starting to hate pizza.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you    re doing something you enjoy , you    re getting paid what you consider a reasonable recompense for your performance , and you stay up all night anyway... how is free pizza not a good deal ? Because as soon as you argue yourself into complying , it gets easier and easier for you manager to ask you to do it again .
And then it gets easier and easier to ask for such effort for tasks that are less and less worth the effort .
Then other departments see how projects still manage to get done within ridiculous time frames , and thus some idiot in a boardroom start assuming that the aforementioned ridiculous time frames are actually quite reasonable .
That 's when the de rigueur late nights now become de facto late nights .
The worst part , though , is that you 'll find yourself starting to hate pizza .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you’re doing something you enjoy, you’re getting paid what you consider a reasonable recompense for your performance, and you stay up all night anyway... how is free pizza not a good deal?Because as soon as you argue yourself into complying, it gets easier and easier for you manager to ask you to do it again.
And then it gets easier and easier to ask for such effort for tasks that are less and less worth the effort.
Then other departments see how projects still manage to get done within ridiculous time frames, and thus some idiot in a boardroom start assuming that the aforementioned ridiculous time frames are actually quite reasonable.
That's when the de rigueur late nights now become de facto late nights.
The worst part, though, is that you'll find yourself starting to hate pizza.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479034</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479260</id>
	<title>It matters...but does it really?</title>
	<author>StylusEater</author>
	<datestamp>1261044960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>People are people, so why does it really matter if they have one set of facilities versus another?  If they're are good at what they do, and get along with the gender spectrum, does it really matter in the end?  If it is a matter of perspective on problems and what various minds bring to the "table of innovation," how does one account for the rest of the gender spectrum and what they have to offer versus just the two polar sides of it?</htmltext>
<tokenext>People are people , so why does it really matter if they have one set of facilities versus another ?
If they 're are good at what they do , and get along with the gender spectrum , does it really matter in the end ?
If it is a matter of perspective on problems and what various minds bring to the " table of innovation , " how does one account for the rest of the gender spectrum and what they have to offer versus just the two polar sides of it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People are people, so why does it really matter if they have one set of facilities versus another?
If they're are good at what they do, and get along with the gender spectrum, does it really matter in the end?
If it is a matter of perspective on problems and what various minds bring to the "table of innovation," how does one account for the rest of the gender spectrum and what they have to offer versus just the two polar sides of it?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30490738</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>Have Brain Will Rent</author>
	<datestamp>1261164900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This just in, there are more female babysitters than males.</p> </div><p>More importantly there are far fewer male teachers than female teachers leaving boys with fewer role models and fewer people who actually understand them. Yet we never hear complaints about this. In fact the curious thing about feminism, which claims to be about equality between the sexes, is that there are never complaints about the situations that disadvantage men.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>And a better question, when are going to stand up to such nonsense and reject the whole premise that the world should be a statistical average reflecting a cross-section of all society?</p></div><p>When men grow backbones and/or when they stop seeing sucking up as a way to get laid.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This just in , there are more female babysitters than males .
More importantly there are far fewer male teachers than female teachers leaving boys with fewer role models and fewer people who actually understand them .
Yet we never hear complaints about this .
In fact the curious thing about feminism , which claims to be about equality between the sexes , is that there are never complaints about the situations that disadvantage men.And a better question , when are going to stand up to such nonsense and reject the whole premise that the world should be a statistical average reflecting a cross-section of all society ? When men grow backbones and/or when they stop seeing sucking up as a way to get laid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This just in, there are more female babysitters than males.
More importantly there are far fewer male teachers than female teachers leaving boys with fewer role models and fewer people who actually understand them.
Yet we never hear complaints about this.
In fact the curious thing about feminism, which claims to be about equality between the sexes, is that there are never complaints about the situations that disadvantage men.And a better question, when are going to stand up to such nonsense and reject the whole premise that the world should be a statistical average reflecting a cross-section of all society?When men grow backbones and/or when they stop seeing sucking up as a way to get laid.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480090</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479984</id>
	<title>Re:Oh please...</title>
	<author>Yvanhoe</author>
	<datestamp>1261047720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Agreed, I am tired of this old troll coming over and over. All the women that I know working in IT have been saying that this was one of the less sexist work environment they knew (yes, they knew other work environment). It just doesn't attract girl at the school level. It is not the proportion of girls working in IT that is low, it is the proportion of girls who graduate in IT.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed , I am tired of this old troll coming over and over .
All the women that I know working in IT have been saying that this was one of the less sexist work environment they knew ( yes , they knew other work environment ) .
It just does n't attract girl at the school level .
It is not the proportion of girls working in IT that is low , it is the proportion of girls who graduate in IT .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed, I am tired of this old troll coming over and over.
All the women that I know working in IT have been saying that this was one of the less sexist work environment they knew (yes, they knew other work environment).
It just doesn't attract girl at the school level.
It is not the proportion of girls working in IT that is low, it is the proportion of girls who graduate in IT.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30483874</id>
	<title>Re:From a phsychological point of view...</title>
	<author>SpaceCadets</author>
	<datestamp>1261074240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't know how to do paragraphs, so I'll keep this short.  Do you think women might fight 'acting' emotional in the business setting to avoid men thinking of them as 'typical' emotional women?  Honest question, as a young (21)female in another male-dominated industry (logistics), I've seen a bit of boardroom meetings and agree with your assessment, women tend to be more 'cool' as opposed to the somewhat 'arrogant' males.  Note, yes, personal anecdote, this is a generalisation blah blah blah.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know how to do paragraphs , so I 'll keep this short .
Do you think women might fight 'acting ' emotional in the business setting to avoid men thinking of them as 'typical ' emotional women ?
Honest question , as a young ( 21 ) female in another male-dominated industry ( logistics ) , I 've seen a bit of boardroom meetings and agree with your assessment , women tend to be more 'cool ' as opposed to the somewhat 'arrogant ' males .
Note , yes , personal anecdote , this is a generalisation blah blah blah .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know how to do paragraphs, so I'll keep this short.
Do you think women might fight 'acting' emotional in the business setting to avoid men thinking of them as 'typical' emotional women?
Honest question, as a young (21)female in another male-dominated industry (logistics), I've seen a bit of boardroom meetings and agree with your assessment, women tend to be more 'cool' as opposed to the somewhat 'arrogant' males.
Note, yes, personal anecdote, this is a generalisation blah blah blah.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480400</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480192</id>
	<title>It's not the same.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261048680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The government should work for the good of it's citizens: that *should* be it's sole purpose.<br><br>Letting H1-Bs into the country works directly against this, regardless of any (often fraudulent) claim that there is a short-term shortage.<br><br>We're supposed to be in a market economy - shortages of skills should result in increasing wages and an increased incentive for employers to train staff. Yet whenever the market begins to move in that direction the government starts shipping in the foreigners: which only benefits the global corporations.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The government should work for the good of it 's citizens : that * should * be it 's sole purpose.Letting H1-Bs into the country works directly against this , regardless of any ( often fraudulent ) claim that there is a short-term shortage.We 're supposed to be in a market economy - shortages of skills should result in increasing wages and an increased incentive for employers to train staff .
Yet whenever the market begins to move in that direction the government starts shipping in the foreigners : which only benefits the global corporations .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The government should work for the good of it's citizens: that *should* be it's sole purpose.Letting H1-Bs into the country works directly against this, regardless of any (often fraudulent) claim that there is a short-term shortage.We're supposed to be in a market economy - shortages of skills should result in increasing wages and an increased incentive for employers to train staff.
Yet whenever the market begins to move in that direction the government starts shipping in the foreigners: which only benefits the global corporations.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479192</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481348</id>
	<title>Re:Give me a break</title>
	<author>Jane\_Dozey</author>
	<datestamp>1261054680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a female in the tech industry I've found that most of the girls I know don't realise what's even involved in what I do. I've surprised many of my friends with descriptions of things that I do in my work and they actually seem quite interested. I think that one of the problems is that it's never actually explained to girls what's involved and unless they're like me and exposed to tech at a young age (my dad's an electronics engineer) they'll never find out enough to be interested.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a female in the tech industry I 've found that most of the girls I know do n't realise what 's even involved in what I do .
I 've surprised many of my friends with descriptions of things that I do in my work and they actually seem quite interested .
I think that one of the problems is that it 's never actually explained to girls what 's involved and unless they 're like me and exposed to tech at a young age ( my dad 's an electronics engineer ) they 'll never find out enough to be interested .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a female in the tech industry I've found that most of the girls I know don't realise what's even involved in what I do.
I've surprised many of my friends with descriptions of things that I do in my work and they actually seem quite interested.
I think that one of the problems is that it's never actually explained to girls what's involved and unless they're like me and exposed to tech at a young age (my dad's an electronics engineer) they'll never find out enough to be interested.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479182</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481932</id>
	<title>Re:So what?</title>
	<author>WCguru42</author>
	<datestamp>1261057800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>Do geeks really 'drive girls out of computer science</p></div><p>And so what if it does? Do geeks have to banned from computer science so girls will want in?</p></div><p>And who's to say that women can't be geeks?  I mean, if they can't, then this article is arguing that men and women are different.  And if something is different then it shouldn't have an equal correlation as something else.  Hammers and screwdrivers are different and no one is complaining that more hammers are driving nails than screwdrivers.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do geeks really 'drive girls out of computer scienceAnd so what if it does ?
Do geeks have to banned from computer science so girls will want in ? And who 's to say that women ca n't be geeks ?
I mean , if they ca n't , then this article is arguing that men and women are different .
And if something is different then it should n't have an equal correlation as something else .
Hammers and screwdrivers are different and no one is complaining that more hammers are driving nails than screwdrivers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do geeks really 'drive girls out of computer scienceAnd so what if it does?
Do geeks have to banned from computer science so girls will want in?And who's to say that women can't be geeks?
I mean, if they can't, then this article is arguing that men and women are different.
And if something is different then it shouldn't have an equal correlation as something else.
Hammers and screwdrivers are different and no one is complaining that more hammers are driving nails than screwdrivers.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481496</id>
	<title>What's the threshold on these articles?</title>
	<author>binary paladin</author>
	<datestamp>1261055580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously, do have to have a fucking article on women in the computer industry twice a month?</p><p>There aren't a lot of women in IT and we shouldn't be doing ANYTHING to change it anymore than we should try to change the disproportionate number of men in the construction or auto maintenance fields. Fucking get over it. How many of you have a woman mechanic? I'm sure they exist, but in the last 4 shops I've put various cars through I've never seen an actual grease monkey that was a woman.</p><p>We do not need to do anything to meet any gender/racial/religious/past time/favorite food/whatever quota.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously , do have to have a fucking article on women in the computer industry twice a month ? There are n't a lot of women in IT and we should n't be doing ANYTHING to change it anymore than we should try to change the disproportionate number of men in the construction or auto maintenance fields .
Fucking get over it .
How many of you have a woman mechanic ?
I 'm sure they exist , but in the last 4 shops I 've put various cars through I 've never seen an actual grease monkey that was a woman.We do not need to do anything to meet any gender/racial/religious/past time/favorite food/whatever quota .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously, do have to have a fucking article on women in the computer industry twice a month?There aren't a lot of women in IT and we shouldn't be doing ANYTHING to change it anymore than we should try to change the disproportionate number of men in the construction or auto maintenance fields.
Fucking get over it.
How many of you have a woman mechanic?
I'm sure they exist, but in the last 4 shops I've put various cars through I've never seen an actual grease monkey that was a woman.We do not need to do anything to meet any gender/racial/religious/past time/favorite food/whatever quota.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480600</id>
	<title>Re:Oh please...</title>
	<author>radtea</author>
	<datestamp>1261050300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Who gives a damn if women don't work in IT?</i></p><p>Men who work in IT, who should be asking themselves what is so terrible about IT careers that women, who are filling the ranks of doctors and lawyers with wild abandon, won't go near them.</p><p>If a job really sucks--especially if it can get you killed--it is done predominantly by men.</p><p>We are society that holds the call of "Men last!" to be honourable and good.  It is usually phrased as "Everyone who is not a man first!"  Or more specifically "Women and children first!"  But semantically they all mean, "Men last!"  That sucks.  If you're a man.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Who gives a damn if women do n't work in IT ? Men who work in IT , who should be asking themselves what is so terrible about IT careers that women , who are filling the ranks of doctors and lawyers with wild abandon , wo n't go near them.If a job really sucks--especially if it can get you killed--it is done predominantly by men.We are society that holds the call of " Men last !
" to be honourable and good .
It is usually phrased as " Everyone who is not a man first !
" Or more specifically " Women and children first !
" But semantically they all mean , " Men last !
" That sucks .
If you 're a man .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who gives a damn if women don't work in IT?Men who work in IT, who should be asking themselves what is so terrible about IT careers that women, who are filling the ranks of doctors and lawyers with wild abandon, won't go near them.If a job really sucks--especially if it can get you killed--it is done predominantly by men.We are society that holds the call of "Men last!
" to be honourable and good.
It is usually phrased as "Everyone who is not a man first!
"  Or more specifically "Women and children first!
"  But semantically they all mean, "Men last!
"  That sucks.
If you're a man.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480216</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocritical</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261048740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Because like everything else, there is a cult that is dead set to create as many conflicts and divisions wherever they can create them. Also to get attention by creating that conflict (to make more dollars).</p></div><p>Said cult is known as the Jews.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Because like everything else , there is a cult that is dead set to create as many conflicts and divisions wherever they can create them .
Also to get attention by creating that conflict ( to make more dollars ) .Said cult is known as the Jews .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because like everything else, there is a cult that is dead set to create as many conflicts and divisions wherever they can create them.
Also to get attention by creating that conflict (to make more dollars).Said cult is known as the Jews.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30493800</id>
	<title>Re:Not necessarily correct</title>
	<author>DavidTC</author>
	<datestamp>1261133820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's an interesting way to put that. I would instead say that men are mechanical problem solvers, and women are social problems solvers. That is, they solve problems that way, not that they solve those sort of problems. Although obviously that's what they're best at.</p><p>
I think we're really saying the same thing. Women attempt to work with other people to come to a conclusion, whereas men just build something and it's done.</p><p>
Which makes it sound like I'm saying that men are better at things, but, heck, all management is <b>is</b> working with people to come to a conclusion. If it wasn't for people coordinating people in society, we'd all be hiding in huts waving sharpened pieces of bone at anyone who comes near so they don't take our stuff!</p><p>
Of course, if not for people building things, we wouldn't have the huts!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's an interesting way to put that .
I would instead say that men are mechanical problem solvers , and women are social problems solvers .
That is , they solve problems that way , not that they solve those sort of problems .
Although obviously that 's what they 're best at .
I think we 're really saying the same thing .
Women attempt to work with other people to come to a conclusion , whereas men just build something and it 's done .
Which makes it sound like I 'm saying that men are better at things , but , heck , all management is is working with people to come to a conclusion .
If it was n't for people coordinating people in society , we 'd all be hiding in huts waving sharpened pieces of bone at anyone who comes near so they do n't take our stuff !
Of course , if not for people building things , we would n't have the huts !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's an interesting way to put that.
I would instead say that men are mechanical problem solvers, and women are social problems solvers.
That is, they solve problems that way, not that they solve those sort of problems.
Although obviously that's what they're best at.
I think we're really saying the same thing.
Women attempt to work with other people to come to a conclusion, whereas men just build something and it's done.
Which makes it sound like I'm saying that men are better at things, but, heck, all management is is working with people to come to a conclusion.
If it wasn't for people coordinating people in society, we'd all be hiding in huts waving sharpened pieces of bone at anyone who comes near so they don't take our stuff!
Of course, if not for people building things, we wouldn't have the huts!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479486</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481094</id>
	<title>Re:The money issue is not as simple as stated</title>
	<author>Corporate T00l</author>
	<datestamp>1261053060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Starting undergrad salary for a CS major going into development at Microsoft is around $80K. In 1994, graduate salary surveys at Cornell put chemical engineering at the top, with CS 2 or 3 behind. If you look at 2008 salaries, CS has pulled ahead, with most graduates indicating something in the $70-90K range: <a href="http://www.engineering.cornell.edu/student-services/engineering-coop-career-services/statistics/Post-Graduate-Reports.cfm" title="cornell.edu" rel="nofollow">http://www.engineering.cornell.edu/student-services/engineering-coop-career-services/statistics/Post-Graduate-Reports.cfm</a> [cornell.edu]. (One might argue that the school or the students might be lying, but on the hiring side of things, I see the same sorts of rates for recent grads coming in as my coworkers.)</p><p>I don't see the data here to support the notion that going into CS is some sort of destitute slavery compared to other engineering majors, or compared to other non-engineering majors. Since when is $80K right out of college a second-class-citizen wage?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Starting undergrad salary for a CS major going into development at Microsoft is around $ 80K .
In 1994 , graduate salary surveys at Cornell put chemical engineering at the top , with CS 2 or 3 behind .
If you look at 2008 salaries , CS has pulled ahead , with most graduates indicating something in the $ 70-90K range : http : //www.engineering.cornell.edu/student-services/engineering-coop-career-services/statistics/Post-Graduate-Reports.cfm [ cornell.edu ] .
( One might argue that the school or the students might be lying , but on the hiring side of things , I see the same sorts of rates for recent grads coming in as my coworkers .
) I do n't see the data here to support the notion that going into CS is some sort of destitute slavery compared to other engineering majors , or compared to other non-engineering majors .
Since when is $ 80K right out of college a second-class-citizen wage ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Starting undergrad salary for a CS major going into development at Microsoft is around $80K.
In 1994, graduate salary surveys at Cornell put chemical engineering at the top, with CS 2 or 3 behind.
If you look at 2008 salaries, CS has pulled ahead, with most graduates indicating something in the $70-90K range: http://www.engineering.cornell.edu/student-services/engineering-coop-career-services/statistics/Post-Graduate-Reports.cfm [cornell.edu].
(One might argue that the school or the students might be lying, but on the hiring side of things, I see the same sorts of rates for recent grads coming in as my coworkers.
)I don't see the data here to support the notion that going into CS is some sort of destitute slavery compared to other engineering majors, or compared to other non-engineering majors.
Since when is $80K right out of college a second-class-citizen wage?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479164</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480638</id>
	<title>Re:Oh please...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261050480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And avoiding that same ogling is why some choose other fields.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And avoiding that same ogling is why some choose other fields .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And avoiding that same ogling is why some choose other fields.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479276</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481038</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261052820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This sounds like the attitude of someone who benefits from things not being fair.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This sounds like the attitude of someone who benefits from things not being fair .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This sounds like the attitude of someone who benefits from things not being fair.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480090</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479076</id>
	<title>Oh please...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261044420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Can we get over this whole sexism bullshit already? Who gives a damn if women don't work in IT? If a woman wants to do something in IT, fine. If she doesn't, fine. If you want to look for gender-based discrimination, look elsewhere.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Can we get over this whole sexism bullshit already ?
Who gives a damn if women do n't work in IT ?
If a woman wants to do something in IT , fine .
If she does n't , fine .
If you want to look for gender-based discrimination , look elsewhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can we get over this whole sexism bullshit already?
Who gives a damn if women don't work in IT?
If a woman wants to do something in IT, fine.
If she doesn't, fine.
If you want to look for gender-based discrimination, look elsewhere.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30483644</id>
	<title>If I recall correctly...</title>
	<author>Bones3D\_mac</author>
	<datestamp>1261071720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... the very first programmer was a woman... Ada Lovelace.</p><p>Actually there were/are <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women\_in\_computing" title="wikipedia.org">many more notables</a> [wikipedia.org] as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... the very first programmer was a woman... Ada Lovelace.Actually there were/are many more notables [ wikipedia.org ] as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... the very first programmer was a woman... Ada Lovelace.Actually there were/are many more notables [wikipedia.org] as well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30483914</id>
	<title>Re:Another one of these??</title>
	<author>slimjim8094</author>
	<datestamp>1261075020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>the crap that I have to put up with being the only woman.</p></div></blockquote><p>Don't kid yourself - that has nothing, or at least very little, to do with being a woman. Techies do that to each other - whether you're a man or a woman, it's how you're treated. Maybe it's because it's male-dominated, but it applies to everyone. Why should I care what someone thinks, unless they've convinced (or forced) me to respect them?</p><p>I think it's similar with men in most every field. Guys don't tend to play games, or screw around, with people they don't respect. Respect is something to be earned, and not granted by default - short of basic human respect. Guys tend to take no heed of people they don't respect.</p><p>Why should it be any different? If anyone - regardless of gender - wants anyone to care about their opinion, why shouldn't they need to earn the respect of their audience?</p><p>In my experience, women are less bothered by the idea of maneuvering through the minefield of everybody's concerns and opinions. Frankly, the thought sickens me and most male acquaintances - so we limit our pool of "everybody" to the people who we respect.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>the crap that I have to put up with being the only woman.Do n't kid yourself - that has nothing , or at least very little , to do with being a woman .
Techies do that to each other - whether you 're a man or a woman , it 's how you 're treated .
Maybe it 's because it 's male-dominated , but it applies to everyone .
Why should I care what someone thinks , unless they 've convinced ( or forced ) me to respect them ? I think it 's similar with men in most every field .
Guys do n't tend to play games , or screw around , with people they do n't respect .
Respect is something to be earned , and not granted by default - short of basic human respect .
Guys tend to take no heed of people they do n't respect.Why should it be any different ?
If anyone - regardless of gender - wants anyone to care about their opinion , why should n't they need to earn the respect of their audience ? In my experience , women are less bothered by the idea of maneuvering through the minefield of everybody 's concerns and opinions .
Frankly , the thought sickens me and most male acquaintances - so we limit our pool of " everybody " to the people who we respect .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the crap that I have to put up with being the only woman.Don't kid yourself - that has nothing, or at least very little, to do with being a woman.
Techies do that to each other - whether you're a man or a woman, it's how you're treated.
Maybe it's because it's male-dominated, but it applies to everyone.
Why should I care what someone thinks, unless they've convinced (or forced) me to respect them?I think it's similar with men in most every field.
Guys don't tend to play games, or screw around, with people they don't respect.
Respect is something to be earned, and not granted by default - short of basic human respect.
Guys tend to take no heed of people they don't respect.Why should it be any different?
If anyone - regardless of gender - wants anyone to care about their opinion, why shouldn't they need to earn the respect of their audience?In my experience, women are less bothered by the idea of maneuvering through the minefield of everybody's concerns and opinions.
Frankly, the thought sickens me and most male acquaintances - so we limit our pool of "everybody" to the people who we respect.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480564</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480396</id>
	<title>Definitions...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261049460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; centuries of <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=define\%3Asuffrage" title="google.com" rel="nofollow">suffrage</a> [google.com]</p><p>I don't think that word means what you think it means...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; centuries of suffrage [ google.com ] I do n't think that word means what you think it means.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; centuries of suffrage [google.com]I don't think that word means what you think it means...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30478988</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481278</id>
	<title>Re:It's not the same.</title>
	<author>JesseMcDonald</author>
	<datestamp>1261054260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The government is hardly "shipping in the foreigners". Their normal involvement consists of forcibly keeping said foreigners <em>out</em>, which works directly against the market economy by maintaining artificially high prices for labor. On occasion, when they deign to notice a shortage of certain skills, they <em>reduce</em> their interference in the market economy and graciously permit a few more well-qualified foreigners to immigrate.</p><p>I'd be the first to admit that their policy as a whole favors certain influential individuals&mdash;e.g. shareholders of large corporations&mdash;over others, but the solution to that inequality consistent with our market economy is not to further block immigration by refusing H1-Bs, but rather to remove the requirement for H1-Bs entirely, permitting free and open immigration. Naturally this would require that the current welfare system to be significantly reduced in scope, if not eliminated entirely; otherwise the existing citizens would be forced to subsidize the new immigrants' "benefits", a most unjust circumstance. Any nation with open borders, as ours was intended to be, must insist that individuals pay their own way (not counting private, voluntary support, e.g. charity).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The government is hardly " shipping in the foreigners " .
Their normal involvement consists of forcibly keeping said foreigners out , which works directly against the market economy by maintaining artificially high prices for labor .
On occasion , when they deign to notice a shortage of certain skills , they reduce their interference in the market economy and graciously permit a few more well-qualified foreigners to immigrate.I 'd be the first to admit that their policy as a whole favors certain influential individuals    e.g .
shareholders of large corporations    over others , but the solution to that inequality consistent with our market economy is not to further block immigration by refusing H1-Bs , but rather to remove the requirement for H1-Bs entirely , permitting free and open immigration .
Naturally this would require that the current welfare system to be significantly reduced in scope , if not eliminated entirely ; otherwise the existing citizens would be forced to subsidize the new immigrants ' " benefits " , a most unjust circumstance .
Any nation with open borders , as ours was intended to be , must insist that individuals pay their own way ( not counting private , voluntary support , e.g .
charity ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The government is hardly "shipping in the foreigners".
Their normal involvement consists of forcibly keeping said foreigners out, which works directly against the market economy by maintaining artificially high prices for labor.
On occasion, when they deign to notice a shortage of certain skills, they reduce their interference in the market economy and graciously permit a few more well-qualified foreigners to immigrate.I'd be the first to admit that their policy as a whole favors certain influential individuals—e.g.
shareholders of large corporations—over others, but the solution to that inequality consistent with our market economy is not to further block immigration by refusing H1-Bs, but rather to remove the requirement for H1-Bs entirely, permitting free and open immigration.
Naturally this would require that the current welfare system to be significantly reduced in scope, if not eliminated entirely; otherwise the existing citizens would be forced to subsidize the new immigrants' "benefits", a most unjust circumstance.
Any nation with open borders, as ours was intended to be, must insist that individuals pay their own way (not counting private, voluntary support, e.g.
charity).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480192</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30482208</id>
	<title>Not all jobs are like that.</title>
	<author>jotaeleemeese</author>
	<datestamp>1261059540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Also remember that you can negotiate many of the conditions of the job you take.</p><p>Teachers do a lot of work out of hours, if that is the only reason you are going into teaching I would think twice, IT people are more likely to be compensated properly for unsocial working hours.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Also remember that you can negotiate many of the conditions of the job you take.Teachers do a lot of work out of hours , if that is the only reason you are going into teaching I would think twice , IT people are more likely to be compensated properly for unsocial working hours .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also remember that you can negotiate many of the conditions of the job you take.Teachers do a lot of work out of hours, if that is the only reason you are going into teaching I would think twice, IT people are more likely to be compensated properly for unsocial working hours.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479416</id>
	<title>Are you kidding?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261045500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am a girl.  Being on call all day and all night / programming until mentally exhausted / etc. is not something I am willing to do.  So yeah, I'm going into teaching.  EVEN THOUGH I AM A GEEK.  Thanks for telling me what the working conditions were in the field, Slashdot - you made the decision that much simpler.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am a girl .
Being on call all day and all night / programming until mentally exhausted / etc .
is not something I am willing to do .
So yeah , I 'm going into teaching .
EVEN THOUGH I AM A GEEK .
Thanks for telling me what the working conditions were in the field , Slashdot - you made the decision that much simpler .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am a girl.
Being on call all day and all night / programming until mentally exhausted / etc.
is not something I am willing to do.
So yeah, I'm going into teaching.
EVEN THOUGH I AM A GEEK.
Thanks for telling me what the working conditions were in the field, Slashdot - you made the decision that much simpler.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481182</id>
	<title>At least us guys can say...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261053540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We enter a field no other sane men would dare enter.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We enter a field no other sane men would dare enter .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We enter a field no other sane men would dare enter.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30483442</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>Runaway1956</author>
	<datestamp>1261069620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ditto what Bolthole said.  There are female soldiers, sailors, police, electricians, you name it.  A programmer has the advantage that they can mostly remain anonymous, if they don't want their bodies and/or personalities put on public display.  Anything a man can do, a woman can do, with VERY few exceptions, and often enough, better.  That is, IF they just decide to do it.</p><p>Truck driving, for instance.  It's a tough job, it takes you into some dangerous places, and it is dangerous in and of itself.  Women have been driving for YEARS - and fleet controllers will readily tell you that they LIKE women drivers.  Their equipment requires much less maintenance than male drivers, and they tend to get into fewer accidents.</p><p>Female cops have an advantage over their male counterparts.  I got into an altercation in Chicago years ago.  This lady cop was trying to calm me down, and put her hand on my upper arm, and chatted away.  Some DUDE putting his hands on me would have made me more defensive - but when SHE did that, I started realizing how attractive she was, and LISTENED to her.  Sexist?  Yeah - but it works, and she knew how to make it work.</p><p>Ehhh.  Whatever a person wants to do, they just need to get off their ass, and DO IT!!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ditto what Bolthole said .
There are female soldiers , sailors , police , electricians , you name it .
A programmer has the advantage that they can mostly remain anonymous , if they do n't want their bodies and/or personalities put on public display .
Anything a man can do , a woman can do , with VERY few exceptions , and often enough , better .
That is , IF they just decide to do it.Truck driving , for instance .
It 's a tough job , it takes you into some dangerous places , and it is dangerous in and of itself .
Women have been driving for YEARS - and fleet controllers will readily tell you that they LIKE women drivers .
Their equipment requires much less maintenance than male drivers , and they tend to get into fewer accidents.Female cops have an advantage over their male counterparts .
I got into an altercation in Chicago years ago .
This lady cop was trying to calm me down , and put her hand on my upper arm , and chatted away .
Some DUDE putting his hands on me would have made me more defensive - but when SHE did that , I started realizing how attractive she was , and LISTENED to her .
Sexist ? Yeah - but it works , and she knew how to make it work.Ehhh .
Whatever a person wants to do , they just need to get off their ass , and DO IT ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ditto what Bolthole said.
There are female soldiers, sailors, police, electricians, you name it.
A programmer has the advantage that they can mostly remain anonymous, if they don't want their bodies and/or personalities put on public display.
Anything a man can do, a woman can do, with VERY few exceptions, and often enough, better.
That is, IF they just decide to do it.Truck driving, for instance.
It's a tough job, it takes you into some dangerous places, and it is dangerous in and of itself.
Women have been driving for YEARS - and fleet controllers will readily tell you that they LIKE women drivers.
Their equipment requires much less maintenance than male drivers, and they tend to get into fewer accidents.Female cops have an advantage over their male counterparts.
I got into an altercation in Chicago years ago.
This lady cop was trying to calm me down, and put her hand on my upper arm, and chatted away.
Some DUDE putting his hands on me would have made me more defensive - but when SHE did that, I started realizing how attractive she was, and LISTENED to her.
Sexist?  Yeah - but it works, and she knew how to make it work.Ehhh.
Whatever a person wants to do, they just need to get off their ass, and DO IT!!
!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481544</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480518</id>
	<title>heavyweighted</title>
	<author>recharged95</author>
	<datestamp>1261049880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Asnwer: too many men and women.
<br>
<br>
By now, we should have nothing but <b>robots</b> in computing.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Asnwer : too many men and women .
By now , we should have nothing but robots in computing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Asnwer: too many men and women.
By now, we should have nothing but robots in computing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480896</id>
	<title>Welcome to the Real World!! lol</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261051920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Software Engineering is NOT for single guys. Get a lady BEFORE you enter. Most Indians and Chinese are smarter that way. They'll work you so hard that you won't have enough energy to remain yourself after the work day let alone see a girl and remain charming. You guys know American Porn was played constantly in foreign lands so that those idiots would come here suckering after our American Pies. That's why RedTube, YouPorn all those free sites are made just for YOU FOREIGNERS. Welcome to America. Losers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Software Engineering is NOT for single guys .
Get a lady BEFORE you enter .
Most Indians and Chinese are smarter that way .
They 'll work you so hard that you wo n't have enough energy to remain yourself after the work day let alone see a girl and remain charming .
You guys know American Porn was played constantly in foreign lands so that those idiots would come here suckering after our American Pies .
That 's why RedTube , YouPorn all those free sites are made just for YOU FOREIGNERS .
Welcome to America .
Losers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Software Engineering is NOT for single guys.
Get a lady BEFORE you enter.
Most Indians and Chinese are smarter that way.
They'll work you so hard that you won't have enough energy to remain yourself after the work day let alone see a girl and remain charming.
You guys know American Porn was played constantly in foreign lands so that those idiots would come here suckering after our American Pies.
That's why RedTube, YouPorn all those free sites are made just for YOU FOREIGNERS.
Welcome to America.
Losers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479312</id>
	<title>Re:Oh please...</title>
	<author>Myopic</author>
	<datestamp>1261045260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't necessarily think that sexism is the thing keeping women out of IT, but if I did want to "look elsewhere" for gender-based discrimination, what better place to look than in a field highly dominated by one sex? To me, it seems like the perfect place to look, even if in the end you don't find it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't necessarily think that sexism is the thing keeping women out of IT , but if I did want to " look elsewhere " for gender-based discrimination , what better place to look than in a field highly dominated by one sex ?
To me , it seems like the perfect place to look , even if in the end you do n't find it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't necessarily think that sexism is the thing keeping women out of IT, but if I did want to "look elsewhere" for gender-based discrimination, what better place to look than in a field highly dominated by one sex?
To me, it seems like the perfect place to look, even if in the end you don't find it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479084</id>
	<title>And how would one count Lynn Conway... ;)</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261044420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... of "Introduction to VLSI Systems" Mead/Conway fame?</p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn\_Conway" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn\_Conway</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>Paul B.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... of " Introduction to VLSI Systems " Mead/Conway fame ? http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn \ _Conway [ wikipedia.org ] Paul B .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... of "Introduction to VLSI Systems" Mead/Conway fame?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn\_Conway [wikipedia.org]Paul B.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480484</id>
	<title>Re:Are you kidding?</title>
	<author>GeckoAddict</author>
	<datestamp>1261049760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Thanks for telling me what the working conditions were in the field, Slashdot - you made the decision that much simpler.</p></div><p>Trusting slashdot for accurate working conditions is a poor idea.  Being on call is reserved for IT pros who maintain something 24/7.  There's plenty of Computing jobs that don't require such extreme working conditions.
<br> <br>
For example, I work for a Fortune 100 company doing software engineering (writing requirements, designs, some coding, maintenance, etc).  I work 40 hrs a week and go home.  If (for some reason), I have to stay late one day, I leave early on another.  Most of the time, I'm not forced to stay late, but I just want to finish what I'm working on because context switching is annoying.  I get paid well, and I get to do things I enjoy in addition to development, like helping interns develop as engineers, small tool development, and I'm currently working through a refactoring book to become a better developer and designer.  My point is that not all 'Computing' jobs are IT server maintenance that require a horrible schedule for very little pay, and slashdot is probably a poor example for most of the computing jobs out there.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Thanks for telling me what the working conditions were in the field , Slashdot - you made the decision that much simpler.Trusting slashdot for accurate working conditions is a poor idea .
Being on call is reserved for IT pros who maintain something 24/7 .
There 's plenty of Computing jobs that do n't require such extreme working conditions .
For example , I work for a Fortune 100 company doing software engineering ( writing requirements , designs , some coding , maintenance , etc ) .
I work 40 hrs a week and go home .
If ( for some reason ) , I have to stay late one day , I leave early on another .
Most of the time , I 'm not forced to stay late , but I just want to finish what I 'm working on because context switching is annoying .
I get paid well , and I get to do things I enjoy in addition to development , like helping interns develop as engineers , small tool development , and I 'm currently working through a refactoring book to become a better developer and designer .
My point is that not all 'Computing ' jobs are IT server maintenance that require a horrible schedule for very little pay , and slashdot is probably a poor example for most of the computing jobs out there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thanks for telling me what the working conditions were in the field, Slashdot - you made the decision that much simpler.Trusting slashdot for accurate working conditions is a poor idea.
Being on call is reserved for IT pros who maintain something 24/7.
There's plenty of Computing jobs that don't require such extreme working conditions.
For example, I work for a Fortune 100 company doing software engineering (writing requirements, designs, some coding, maintenance, etc).
I work 40 hrs a week and go home.
If (for some reason), I have to stay late one day, I leave early on another.
Most of the time, I'm not forced to stay late, but I just want to finish what I'm working on because context switching is annoying.
I get paid well, and I get to do things I enjoy in addition to development, like helping interns develop as engineers, small tool development, and I'm currently working through a refactoring book to become a better developer and designer.
My point is that not all 'Computing' jobs are IT server maintenance that require a horrible schedule for very little pay, and slashdot is probably a poor example for most of the computing jobs out there.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30483078</id>
	<title>Assuming it's all about the money.</title>
	<author>Boltronics</author>
	<datestamp>1261066200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm in this job because I enjoy it. Simple as that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm in this job because I enjoy it .
Simple as that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm in this job because I enjoy it.
Simple as that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479610</id>
	<title>Too many dicks on the dance floor</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261046100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Too many dudes<br>With too many dicks<br>Too close to my shit<br>Too hard to meet chicks<br>I need better odds<br>More broads, less rods<br>I came to do battle<br>Scadaddle with the cattle prods</p><p>Too many men<br>Too many boys<br>Too many misters<br>Not enough sisters<br>Too much time on, too many hands<br>Not enough ladies, too many mans</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Too many dudesWith too many dicksToo close to my shitToo hard to meet chicksI need better oddsMore broads , less rodsI came to do battleScadaddle with the cattle prodsToo many menToo many boysToo many mistersNot enough sistersToo much time on , too many handsNot enough ladies , too many mans</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Too many dudesWith too many dicksToo close to my shitToo hard to meet chicksI need better oddsMore broads, less rodsI came to do battleScadaddle with the cattle prodsToo many menToo many boysToo many mistersNot enough sistersToo much time on, too many handsNot enough ladies, too many mans</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30497886</id>
	<title>Re:I am seeing it.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261228740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I find the biggest problem in IT isn't because of any of the issues you mention above, but because IT has become so diluted with con artists who go to trade schools (which are run by con artists if you ask me) and get their "skills" then once they are faced with real world issues, they get the deer in the headlight look. The other is ego, many IT people have egos the size of the sun, and think they are hot shit, and that, right off the bat, they deserve $90/hr because they are computer gods.</p><p>Guess what? the economy sucks ass. no one wants a $90/hr IT tech, and for that much, you better be able to not only be able to write a small working OS, but you'd better be able to be an IT manager too (which is probably one of the most boring, inane jobs you can get if you prefer being a tech)<br>IT is trade, much like carpenters, mechanics, plumbers, etc. We do what most people dont want to do because their have their own professions to deal with, and their own interests.</p><p>Now how does this affect wages? Simple, most companies get burned by "professionals" all the fucking time. Some hotshot from a school like ITT tech comes in, looks promising, knows how to dress, and put on the bullshit (this is part of the education)<br>Doesn't look like a nerd or geek (asthetics are everything in the business world, this part is not an IT problem, it's a different discussion altogether) and makes it seem like rainbows and unicorns are flying out of his ass and that he's the magic man. This guy starts work and utterly breaks an existing network, or creates a hodge-podge network that runs like utter shit, or does next to nothing and collects paychecks while patting himself on the back like instructed in a trade school.</p><p>What happens then is, A) Company gets fed up, starts hiring consultants (many of which ALSO are scam artists) who have enough knowledge and sense to fix the basic problems this guy has created or not fixed B) He can do the work to some extent, but isnt particularly good, has no drive to learn how to improve as this was all supposed to be a static field from what he was told, becomes overwhelmed, leaves the field and goes back to school for another field that makes money. C) Leaves IT, but uses his mastery of bullshit to become a middle management type.</p><p>Simply put, the signal to noise ratio is too great in IT, there's a lot of five year techs vs. long term techs. It's the former that is ruining it for those who wish to work the field as a permanent career. Hell, I hear some of these short term guys calling for unionization to support their sloth and inexperience. Do not get me wrong, I'm not making excuses for the H1-B bullshit, which I think is borderline criminal and treason (if you've watched some of the leaked vids of these conferences these MBA type assholes attend on how to avoid hiring americans, you'd get the same feeling); Nor am I making excuses for asshole employers who try to con you. I'm pointing out that much of the issue is within the quality and quantity of the worker. IT people are a dime a dozen, and if you want to make your millions like in the dot com boom, you have to work for it now. The golden era your predecessors enjoyed is gone, it's no longer a specialized field with few people in it, now many people are gunning for a tech job because it's big money. Thanks to those people, it's no longer big money.</p><p>The upside is, if you truly can break out of the mold and show that you can fix almost any situation, and make the bullshitters look bad by simply doing your job, you have a better chance at making money.</p><p>There are also some other things I could point out (such as everyone aspiring to work under some big multinational, people making excuses for their lack of drive, social concepts of "nerds", etc) but I don't want to rant.</p><p>The trick is, start off with a small wage, like $12/hour if you're new to the field, this will allow for forgiveness for some inexperience, and make you less likely a candidate for job cuts when the company is hurting. A smart company anyway.<br>Then you work your way up as you gain experience and credentials -- just like everyone else has to. You're no longer a magic man, you have to become one.</p><p>To reference an old quote: "What? Do you think you're so special?"</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I find the biggest problem in IT is n't because of any of the issues you mention above , but because IT has become so diluted with con artists who go to trade schools ( which are run by con artists if you ask me ) and get their " skills " then once they are faced with real world issues , they get the deer in the headlight look .
The other is ego , many IT people have egos the size of the sun , and think they are hot shit , and that , right off the bat , they deserve $ 90/hr because they are computer gods.Guess what ?
the economy sucks ass .
no one wants a $ 90/hr IT tech , and for that much , you better be able to not only be able to write a small working OS , but you 'd better be able to be an IT manager too ( which is probably one of the most boring , inane jobs you can get if you prefer being a tech ) IT is trade , much like carpenters , mechanics , plumbers , etc .
We do what most people dont want to do because their have their own professions to deal with , and their own interests.Now how does this affect wages ?
Simple , most companies get burned by " professionals " all the fucking time .
Some hotshot from a school like ITT tech comes in , looks promising , knows how to dress , and put on the bullshit ( this is part of the education ) Does n't look like a nerd or geek ( asthetics are everything in the business world , this part is not an IT problem , it 's a different discussion altogether ) and makes it seem like rainbows and unicorns are flying out of his ass and that he 's the magic man .
This guy starts work and utterly breaks an existing network , or creates a hodge-podge network that runs like utter shit , or does next to nothing and collects paychecks while patting himself on the back like instructed in a trade school.What happens then is , A ) Company gets fed up , starts hiring consultants ( many of which ALSO are scam artists ) who have enough knowledge and sense to fix the basic problems this guy has created or not fixed B ) He can do the work to some extent , but isnt particularly good , has no drive to learn how to improve as this was all supposed to be a static field from what he was told , becomes overwhelmed , leaves the field and goes back to school for another field that makes money .
C ) Leaves IT , but uses his mastery of bullshit to become a middle management type.Simply put , the signal to noise ratio is too great in IT , there 's a lot of five year techs vs. long term techs .
It 's the former that is ruining it for those who wish to work the field as a permanent career .
Hell , I hear some of these short term guys calling for unionization to support their sloth and inexperience .
Do not get me wrong , I 'm not making excuses for the H1-B bullshit , which I think is borderline criminal and treason ( if you 've watched some of the leaked vids of these conferences these MBA type assholes attend on how to avoid hiring americans , you 'd get the same feeling ) ; Nor am I making excuses for asshole employers who try to con you .
I 'm pointing out that much of the issue is within the quality and quantity of the worker .
IT people are a dime a dozen , and if you want to make your millions like in the dot com boom , you have to work for it now .
The golden era your predecessors enjoyed is gone , it 's no longer a specialized field with few people in it , now many people are gunning for a tech job because it 's big money .
Thanks to those people , it 's no longer big money.The upside is , if you truly can break out of the mold and show that you can fix almost any situation , and make the bullshitters look bad by simply doing your job , you have a better chance at making money.There are also some other things I could point out ( such as everyone aspiring to work under some big multinational , people making excuses for their lack of drive , social concepts of " nerds " , etc ) but I do n't want to rant.The trick is , start off with a small wage , like $ 12/hour if you 're new to the field , this will allow for forgiveness for some inexperience , and make you less likely a candidate for job cuts when the company is hurting .
A smart company anyway.Then you work your way up as you gain experience and credentials -- just like everyone else has to .
You 're no longer a magic man , you have to become one.To reference an old quote : " What ?
Do you think you 're so special ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I find the biggest problem in IT isn't because of any of the issues you mention above, but because IT has become so diluted with con artists who go to trade schools (which are run by con artists if you ask me) and get their "skills" then once they are faced with real world issues, they get the deer in the headlight look.
The other is ego, many IT people have egos the size of the sun, and think they are hot shit, and that, right off the bat, they deserve $90/hr because they are computer gods.Guess what?
the economy sucks ass.
no one wants a $90/hr IT tech, and for that much, you better be able to not only be able to write a small working OS, but you'd better be able to be an IT manager too (which is probably one of the most boring, inane jobs you can get if you prefer being a tech)IT is trade, much like carpenters, mechanics, plumbers, etc.
We do what most people dont want to do because their have their own professions to deal with, and their own interests.Now how does this affect wages?
Simple, most companies get burned by "professionals" all the fucking time.
Some hotshot from a school like ITT tech comes in, looks promising, knows how to dress, and put on the bullshit (this is part of the education)Doesn't look like a nerd or geek (asthetics are everything in the business world, this part is not an IT problem, it's a different discussion altogether) and makes it seem like rainbows and unicorns are flying out of his ass and that he's the magic man.
This guy starts work and utterly breaks an existing network, or creates a hodge-podge network that runs like utter shit, or does next to nothing and collects paychecks while patting himself on the back like instructed in a trade school.What happens then is, A) Company gets fed up, starts hiring consultants (many of which ALSO are scam artists) who have enough knowledge and sense to fix the basic problems this guy has created or not fixed B) He can do the work to some extent, but isnt particularly good, has no drive to learn how to improve as this was all supposed to be a static field from what he was told, becomes overwhelmed, leaves the field and goes back to school for another field that makes money.
C) Leaves IT, but uses his mastery of bullshit to become a middle management type.Simply put, the signal to noise ratio is too great in IT, there's a lot of five year techs vs. long term techs.
It's the former that is ruining it for those who wish to work the field as a permanent career.
Hell, I hear some of these short term guys calling for unionization to support their sloth and inexperience.
Do not get me wrong, I'm not making excuses for the H1-B bullshit, which I think is borderline criminal and treason (if you've watched some of the leaked vids of these conferences these MBA type assholes attend on how to avoid hiring americans, you'd get the same feeling); Nor am I making excuses for asshole employers who try to con you.
I'm pointing out that much of the issue is within the quality and quantity of the worker.
IT people are a dime a dozen, and if you want to make your millions like in the dot com boom, you have to work for it now.
The golden era your predecessors enjoyed is gone, it's no longer a specialized field with few people in it, now many people are gunning for a tech job because it's big money.
Thanks to those people, it's no longer big money.The upside is, if you truly can break out of the mold and show that you can fix almost any situation, and make the bullshitters look bad by simply doing your job, you have a better chance at making money.There are also some other things I could point out (such as everyone aspiring to work under some big multinational, people making excuses for their lack of drive, social concepts of "nerds", etc) but I don't want to rant.The trick is, start off with a small wage, like $12/hour if you're new to the field, this will allow for forgiveness for some inexperience, and make you less likely a candidate for job cuts when the company is hurting.
A smart company anyway.Then you work your way up as you gain experience and credentials -- just like everyone else has to.
You're no longer a magic man, you have to become one.To reference an old quote: "What?
Do you think you're so special?
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479336</id>
	<title>Same as it always was.</title>
	<author>bit9</author>
	<datestamp>1261045320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Seems like we have another story on this topic every couple months or so, but the basic problem hasn't changed.
<p>
The reason so few women go into computing is that it's viewed as a "nerd" thing, and our society generally associates "nerd" with "male". In other words, most women aren't <i>interested</i> in computing because of the stigma associated with it. For most college-age women, going into computer science would be viewed as social suicide.
</p><p>
My wife, for instance, has an above average intellect, and could have done well in almost any field she chose, but computer science was the last thing she wanted to do. Why? Because CS is beyond her mental capacity? Nope. But it is outside of the range of things that interest her. She has no appreciation or fascination for how computers work. She just wants one that works reliably, but beyond that she's not interested in knowing <i>how</i> they work. Same with her car.
</p><p>
Point is, you don't need to come up with complicated, obscure reasons why there aren't more women in computing. The answer is boring and cliched to the point of sounding trite, but it's right there in front of your nose. Women in our society are trained to not be interested in technical careers. This whole discussion, in fact, is probably just an extension of the age-old question of why there aren't more female auto mechanics, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seems like we have another story on this topic every couple months or so , but the basic problem has n't changed .
The reason so few women go into computing is that it 's viewed as a " nerd " thing , and our society generally associates " nerd " with " male " .
In other words , most women are n't interested in computing because of the stigma associated with it .
For most college-age women , going into computer science would be viewed as social suicide .
My wife , for instance , has an above average intellect , and could have done well in almost any field she chose , but computer science was the last thing she wanted to do .
Why ? Because CS is beyond her mental capacity ?
Nope. But it is outside of the range of things that interest her .
She has no appreciation or fascination for how computers work .
She just wants one that works reliably , but beyond that she 's not interested in knowing how they work .
Same with her car .
Point is , you do n't need to come up with complicated , obscure reasons why there are n't more women in computing .
The answer is boring and cliched to the point of sounding trite , but it 's right there in front of your nose .
Women in our society are trained to not be interested in technical careers .
This whole discussion , in fact , is probably just an extension of the age-old question of why there are n't more female auto mechanics , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seems like we have another story on this topic every couple months or so, but the basic problem hasn't changed.
The reason so few women go into computing is that it's viewed as a "nerd" thing, and our society generally associates "nerd" with "male".
In other words, most women aren't interested in computing because of the stigma associated with it.
For most college-age women, going into computer science would be viewed as social suicide.
My wife, for instance, has an above average intellect, and could have done well in almost any field she chose, but computer science was the last thing she wanted to do.
Why? Because CS is beyond her mental capacity?
Nope. But it is outside of the range of things that interest her.
She has no appreciation or fascination for how computers work.
She just wants one that works reliably, but beyond that she's not interested in knowing how they work.
Same with her car.
Point is, you don't need to come up with complicated, obscure reasons why there aren't more women in computing.
The answer is boring and cliched to the point of sounding trite, but it's right there in front of your nose.
Women in our society are trained to not be interested in technical careers.
This whole discussion, in fact, is probably just an extension of the age-old question of why there aren't more female auto mechanics, etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481388</id>
	<title>What?  Don't they know?</title>
	<author>Alanonfire</author>
	<datestamp>1261054920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Girls are the reason computer science exists.  The constant state of rejection computer nerds live in by the opposite sex is what fuels this discipline.

So women, indirectly, are the major contributing factor to the progression of computer science.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Girls are the reason computer science exists .
The constant state of rejection computer nerds live in by the opposite sex is what fuels this discipline .
So women , indirectly , are the major contributing factor to the progression of computer science .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Girls are the reason computer science exists.
The constant state of rejection computer nerds live in by the opposite sex is what fuels this discipline.
So women, indirectly, are the major contributing factor to the progression of computer science.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481362</id>
	<title>Women don't generally work stressful jobs...</title>
	<author>AthleteMusicianNerd</author>
	<datestamp>1261054740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's why there's not a lot in software.  If they do, they don't stick around long.

Furthermore, there are way too many people in the field.  This is the fault of the phony American economy.  The tech boom of the 90's brought a plethora of incompetence into the field.

Women don't generally work hard on anything.  Most women that are employed hold jobs that are unproductive.  Teaching(non-sense in the public schools mind you), planning a company party, selling Gucci hand bags, or posing for Playboy are not good ways to grow an economy.

If one considers manipulating men to do all of their work, then yes they probably are smart.  Take men out of the equation though, and you're left with nothing.  (My apologies for straying a little off topic)</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's why there 's not a lot in software .
If they do , they do n't stick around long .
Furthermore , there are way too many people in the field .
This is the fault of the phony American economy .
The tech boom of the 90 's brought a plethora of incompetence into the field .
Women do n't generally work hard on anything .
Most women that are employed hold jobs that are unproductive .
Teaching ( non-sense in the public schools mind you ) , planning a company party , selling Gucci hand bags , or posing for Playboy are not good ways to grow an economy .
If one considers manipulating men to do all of their work , then yes they probably are smart .
Take men out of the equation though , and you 're left with nothing .
( My apologies for straying a little off topic )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's why there's not a lot in software.
If they do, they don't stick around long.
Furthermore, there are way too many people in the field.
This is the fault of the phony American economy.
The tech boom of the 90's brought a plethora of incompetence into the field.
Women don't generally work hard on anything.
Most women that are employed hold jobs that are unproductive.
Teaching(non-sense in the public schools mind you), planning a company party, selling Gucci hand bags, or posing for Playboy are not good ways to grow an economy.
If one considers manipulating men to do all of their work, then yes they probably are smart.
Take men out of the equation though, and you're left with nothing.
(My apologies for straying a little off topic)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30478988</id>
	<title>Coming Right Up</title>
	<author>eldavojohn</author>
	<datestamp>1261044120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>One calm, level headed discussion about the disparity of genders in the world of computer science where everyone agrees on the solution with no emotions, personal anecdotes, gender studies, centuries of suffrage, accusations, cherry picked statistics, flamebait quotes from message boards, reverse sexism or chauvinistic undertones trumpeted.  <br> <br>

Yep, this one sounds like it might be even as tame as your average climategate discussion.</htmltext>
<tokenext>One calm , level headed discussion about the disparity of genders in the world of computer science where everyone agrees on the solution with no emotions , personal anecdotes , gender studies , centuries of suffrage , accusations , cherry picked statistics , flamebait quotes from message boards , reverse sexism or chauvinistic undertones trumpeted .
Yep , this one sounds like it might be even as tame as your average climategate discussion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One calm, level headed discussion about the disparity of genders in the world of computer science where everyone agrees on the solution with no emotions, personal anecdotes, gender studies, centuries of suffrage, accusations, cherry picked statistics, flamebait quotes from message boards, reverse sexism or chauvinistic undertones trumpeted.
Yep, this one sounds like it might be even as tame as your average climategate discussion.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30483236</id>
	<title>Re:From a phsychological point of view...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261067580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Women act more based on emotions and feelings than guys do, whereas guys will act on logic and black &amp; white facts</p><p>Nope.<br>I used to think this 40 years ago, which is about when I started my IT career (with 8 years off to teach physics.)<br>My observation is that in general, men are much much more likely to get emotional in a business setting when there are differences of opinion. The way that they express emotion, from raised voices, blustering, filibustering to even stomping out of the room are somehow found to be socially acceptable. Men are the first to start emoting and are often the only ones. I've found that it is quite rare for a female to express emotion while in a business/professional setting and usually only after extreme provocation. On the other hand, it's almost a matter of course for men, especially those in or seeking to be management.</p><p>Is there anyone who is not aware that that raising your voice, shaking your head, pointing fingers, crossing arms etc are expressions of emotional behaviors?</p></div><p>Just do what I do when people start yelling at you and disrupting the work environment: call security or an HR rep into the room depending on what the situation warrants.  Do this even if it's your boss--if you get fired for it then legally it's called "retaliation" that's been witnessed by security or the HR rep, and you've just won the lawsuit lottery.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Women act more based on emotions and feelings than guys do , whereas guys will act on logic and black &amp; white factsNope.I used to think this 40 years ago , which is about when I started my IT career ( with 8 years off to teach physics .
) My observation is that in general , men are much much more likely to get emotional in a business setting when there are differences of opinion .
The way that they express emotion , from raised voices , blustering , filibustering to even stomping out of the room are somehow found to be socially acceptable .
Men are the first to start emoting and are often the only ones .
I 've found that it is quite rare for a female to express emotion while in a business/professional setting and usually only after extreme provocation .
On the other hand , it 's almost a matter of course for men , especially those in or seeking to be management.Is there anyone who is not aware that that raising your voice , shaking your head , pointing fingers , crossing arms etc are expressions of emotional behaviors ? Just do what I do when people start yelling at you and disrupting the work environment : call security or an HR rep into the room depending on what the situation warrants .
Do this even if it 's your boss--if you get fired for it then legally it 's called " retaliation " that 's been witnessed by security or the HR rep , and you 've just won the lawsuit lottery .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Women act more based on emotions and feelings than guys do, whereas guys will act on logic and black &amp; white factsNope.I used to think this 40 years ago, which is about when I started my IT career (with 8 years off to teach physics.
)My observation is that in general, men are much much more likely to get emotional in a business setting when there are differences of opinion.
The way that they express emotion, from raised voices, blustering, filibustering to even stomping out of the room are somehow found to be socially acceptable.
Men are the first to start emoting and are often the only ones.
I've found that it is quite rare for a female to express emotion while in a business/professional setting and usually only after extreme provocation.
On the other hand, it's almost a matter of course for men, especially those in or seeking to be management.Is there anyone who is not aware that that raising your voice, shaking your head, pointing fingers, crossing arms etc are expressions of emotional behaviors?Just do what I do when people start yelling at you and disrupting the work environment: call security or an HR rep into the room depending on what the situation warrants.
Do this even if it's your boss--if you get fired for it then legally it's called "retaliation" that's been witnessed by security or the HR rep, and you've just won the lawsuit lottery.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480400</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30485162</id>
	<title>Re:From a phsychological point of view...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261135860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>To parent: I agree. I realise US men lose on all accounts when it comes to emotional behavior, at the office or at work. They think their macho reactions are proper behavior but they're only behaving live children. I realise I am a woman. I realise I work in IT. I realise this discussion is centered on US gender assumptions, and that they are old fashioned and stupid. Go to northern Europe and you will see a whole different picture. The US has become the slum of the civilised world on so many subjects -gender being one- and they don't even realise it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>To parent : I agree .
I realise US men lose on all accounts when it comes to emotional behavior , at the office or at work .
They think their macho reactions are proper behavior but they 're only behaving live children .
I realise I am a woman .
I realise I work in IT .
I realise this discussion is centered on US gender assumptions , and that they are old fashioned and stupid .
Go to northern Europe and you will see a whole different picture .
The US has become the slum of the civilised world on so many subjects -gender being one- and they do n't even realise it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To parent: I agree.
I realise US men lose on all accounts when it comes to emotional behavior, at the office or at work.
They think their macho reactions are proper behavior but they're only behaving live children.
I realise I am a woman.
I realise I work in IT.
I realise this discussion is centered on US gender assumptions, and that they are old fashioned and stupid.
Go to northern Europe and you will see a whole different picture.
The US has become the slum of the civilised world on so many subjects -gender being one- and they don't even realise it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480400</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481408</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>definate</author>
	<datestamp>1261055100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are also more women in HR, Payroll and Marketing. These are female dominated areas of business. There's a 50/50 split (roughly) in accounting and similar.</p><p>I don't know why people have this unrealistic view of equality meaning "everybody is equally distributed amongst everything", whether it's wealth, skill, or employment.</p><p>It's completely unrealistic and when they attempt to achieve these goals through policies (communism, no child left behind, equal opportunity laws, respectively), they fail dismally.</p><p>Don't worry about when or how it will change, since it doesn't matter if it doesn't. Sure, it means we MIGHT subjectively operate sub-optimally however, we needn't worry about that, and any attempt to change that would likely have us directing our energy at something which won't benefit us much and may cost us heaps.</p><p>So instead, be content with the fact that you're right. Use this information to exploit opportunities, build a network of people who understand this, and use this network to further your thought and progress.</p><p>This is what I find I have done instinctively.</p><p>Overall, nothing really matters, so do what you want.</p><p>This is the problem with relativistic and economic policy thinking, you inevitably find yourself dealing with matters of philosophy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are also more women in HR , Payroll and Marketing .
These are female dominated areas of business .
There 's a 50/50 split ( roughly ) in accounting and similar.I do n't know why people have this unrealistic view of equality meaning " everybody is equally distributed amongst everything " , whether it 's wealth , skill , or employment.It 's completely unrealistic and when they attempt to achieve these goals through policies ( communism , no child left behind , equal opportunity laws , respectively ) , they fail dismally.Do n't worry about when or how it will change , since it does n't matter if it does n't .
Sure , it means we MIGHT subjectively operate sub-optimally however , we need n't worry about that , and any attempt to change that would likely have us directing our energy at something which wo n't benefit us much and may cost us heaps.So instead , be content with the fact that you 're right .
Use this information to exploit opportunities , build a network of people who understand this , and use this network to further your thought and progress.This is what I find I have done instinctively.Overall , nothing really matters , so do what you want.This is the problem with relativistic and economic policy thinking , you inevitably find yourself dealing with matters of philosophy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are also more women in HR, Payroll and Marketing.
These are female dominated areas of business.
There's a 50/50 split (roughly) in accounting and similar.I don't know why people have this unrealistic view of equality meaning "everybody is equally distributed amongst everything", whether it's wealth, skill, or employment.It's completely unrealistic and when they attempt to achieve these goals through policies (communism, no child left behind, equal opportunity laws, respectively), they fail dismally.Don't worry about when or how it will change, since it doesn't matter if it doesn't.
Sure, it means we MIGHT subjectively operate sub-optimally however, we needn't worry about that, and any attempt to change that would likely have us directing our energy at something which won't benefit us much and may cost us heaps.So instead, be content with the fact that you're right.
Use this information to exploit opportunities, build a network of people who understand this, and use this network to further your thought and progress.This is what I find I have done instinctively.Overall, nothing really matters, so do what you want.This is the problem with relativistic and economic policy thinking, you inevitably find yourself dealing with matters of philosophy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480090</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30482940</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>checho4</author>
	<datestamp>1261064760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Amen.  Mind if I quote you on this?</div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Amen .
Mind if I quote you on this ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Amen.
Mind if I quote you on this?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481544</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480992</id>
	<title>Women are too smart to bother working</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261052580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Many women are too smart to bother working, that is what men are for.  The world works in such a way that women do not need to work, provided they are attractive to enough males. Women are taught this from an early age - hence why women mature socially years earlier than men (on average). Easily 50\% of women are "kept" in this way, unless they choose to work or are really ugly or have other deficiencies according to men.  From age 18 - 33 or so, women have tremendous power over men based on appearance alone.</p><p>OTOH, males are trained from an early age that if you want a woman (and all that entails), you need to have a high paying job, power or both. The better the job, the better the woman you will likely attract. Better can mean all sorts of things - family, status, beauty, smarter, fertile, cute, famous, etc.  There's almost zero chance of a man being "kept" although I'll keep trying.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Many women are too smart to bother working , that is what men are for .
The world works in such a way that women do not need to work , provided they are attractive to enough males .
Women are taught this from an early age - hence why women mature socially years earlier than men ( on average ) .
Easily 50 \ % of women are " kept " in this way , unless they choose to work or are really ugly or have other deficiencies according to men .
From age 18 - 33 or so , women have tremendous power over men based on appearance alone.OTOH , males are trained from an early age that if you want a woman ( and all that entails ) , you need to have a high paying job , power or both .
The better the job , the better the woman you will likely attract .
Better can mean all sorts of things - family , status , beauty , smarter , fertile , cute , famous , etc .
There 's almost zero chance of a man being " kept " although I 'll keep trying .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many women are too smart to bother working, that is what men are for.
The world works in such a way that women do not need to work, provided they are attractive to enough males.
Women are taught this from an early age - hence why women mature socially years earlier than men (on average).
Easily 50\% of women are "kept" in this way, unless they choose to work or are really ugly or have other deficiencies according to men.
From age 18 - 33 or so, women have tremendous power over men based on appearance alone.OTOH, males are trained from an early age that if you want a woman (and all that entails), you need to have a high paying job, power or both.
The better the job, the better the woman you will likely attract.
Better can mean all sorts of things - family, status, beauty, smarter, fertile, cute, famous, etc.
There's almost zero chance of a man being "kept" although I'll keep trying.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479182</id>
	<title>Give me a break</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261044720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Judging by the women I know personally, these points aren't even part of their criteria for considering careers in IT.  You know why most of the women I know don't work in IT?  It's simple; they don't find the work interesting or engaging.  It's the same reason I'm not a farmer or a journalist.  People do the jobs they can do; often what people can do is determined by their natural interests.  If women by and large aren't interested in technology, they will not work in IT.  It has utterly nothing to do with the global economics of any particular industry.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Judging by the women I know personally , these points are n't even part of their criteria for considering careers in IT .
You know why most of the women I know do n't work in IT ?
It 's simple ; they do n't find the work interesting or engaging .
It 's the same reason I 'm not a farmer or a journalist .
People do the jobs they can do ; often what people can do is determined by their natural interests .
If women by and large are n't interested in technology , they will not work in IT .
It has utterly nothing to do with the global economics of any particular industry .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Judging by the women I know personally, these points aren't even part of their criteria for considering careers in IT.
You know why most of the women I know don't work in IT?
It's simple; they don't find the work interesting or engaging.
It's the same reason I'm not a farmer or a journalist.
People do the jobs they can do; often what people can do is determined by their natural interests.
If women by and large aren't interested in technology, they will not work in IT.
It has utterly nothing to do with the global economics of any particular industry.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479446</id>
	<title>Re:I am seeing it.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261045620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you don't like the jobs you're offered, then start your own business.  if you can be replaced that easily, then you haven't been keeping your skills ahead of the curve.  Nobody owes you a job.</p><p>-jcr</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you do n't like the jobs you 're offered , then start your own business .
if you can be replaced that easily , then you have n't been keeping your skills ahead of the curve .
Nobody owes you a job.-jcr</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you don't like the jobs you're offered, then start your own business.
if you can be replaced that easily, then you haven't been keeping your skills ahead of the curve.
Nobody owes you a job.-jcr</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481900</id>
	<title>Re:Am I the only female on Slashdot?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261057620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>First of all, men are more for the dog eat dog competition while females choose to help first and compete second, in comparison to males.</p></div><p>Just because you're a woman doesn't mean it's okay for you to stereotype men and women.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>However, all it takes is one asshat guy to come in and be disrespectful enough to push us away. </p></div><p>Then maybe you don't really like what you're doing.  If you can't handle one douche bag then you don't have the chops.  I've had to work with plenty of people that I didn't like and I dealt with it.  We weren't going out to bars after work but we were able to keep it at least cordial at work.  Stop getting pushed around.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Not only that but females have more non work issues to deal with that pulls us away. We also have to deal with promotional issues.</p></div><p>Everyone has problems, women aren't special in that regard.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Men brag to others about what they do for their ego, for what makes them feel good.</p></div><p>Quick question, "Being a woman, how do you figure you understand what makes men tick so well?"</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>First of all , men are more for the dog eat dog competition while females choose to help first and compete second , in comparison to males.Just because you 're a woman does n't mean it 's okay for you to stereotype men and women.However , all it takes is one asshat guy to come in and be disrespectful enough to push us away .
Then maybe you do n't really like what you 're doing .
If you ca n't handle one douche bag then you do n't have the chops .
I 've had to work with plenty of people that I did n't like and I dealt with it .
We were n't going out to bars after work but we were able to keep it at least cordial at work .
Stop getting pushed around.Not only that but females have more non work issues to deal with that pulls us away .
We also have to deal with promotional issues.Everyone has problems , women are n't special in that regard.Men brag to others about what they do for their ego , for what makes them feel good.Quick question , " Being a woman , how do you figure you understand what makes men tick so well ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First of all, men are more for the dog eat dog competition while females choose to help first and compete second, in comparison to males.Just because you're a woman doesn't mean it's okay for you to stereotype men and women.However, all it takes is one asshat guy to come in and be disrespectful enough to push us away.
Then maybe you don't really like what you're doing.
If you can't handle one douche bag then you don't have the chops.
I've had to work with plenty of people that I didn't like and I dealt with it.
We weren't going out to bars after work but we were able to keep it at least cordial at work.
Stop getting pushed around.Not only that but females have more non work issues to deal with that pulls us away.
We also have to deal with promotional issues.Everyone has problems, women aren't special in that regard.Men brag to others about what they do for their ego, for what makes them feel good.Quick question, "Being a woman, how do you figure you understand what makes men tick so well?
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480070</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481980</id>
	<title>Re:From a phsychological point of view...</title>
	<author>owlstead</author>
	<datestamp>1261058160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>True enough, but I know way to many women in the business that are just too nice or not driven enough. I think that being emotional is fine, as long as you are emotional for the right reasons. It's only when it gets personal that emotions really start being in the way. And don't forget that you don't do well in any business setting if you never get angry about something. That said, maybe I'm just using the dark side of the force too much<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>True enough , but I know way to many women in the business that are just too nice or not driven enough .
I think that being emotional is fine , as long as you are emotional for the right reasons .
It 's only when it gets personal that emotions really start being in the way .
And do n't forget that you do n't do well in any business setting if you never get angry about something .
That said , maybe I 'm just using the dark side of the force too much : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>True enough, but I know way to many women in the business that are just too nice or not driven enough.
I think that being emotional is fine, as long as you are emotional for the right reasons.
It's only when it gets personal that emotions really start being in the way.
And don't forget that you don't do well in any business setting if you never get angry about something.
That said, maybe I'm just using the dark side of the force too much :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480400</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30482158</id>
	<title>We know about your prejudices.</title>
	<author>jotaeleemeese</author>
	<datestamp>1261059180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Now tell us something that is really useful please.</p><p>Guys in a privileged positions in a given marketplace referring to tired clich&#233;s and stereotypes is evidence of absolutely nothing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Now tell us something that is really useful please.Guys in a privileged positions in a given marketplace referring to tired clich   s and stereotypes is evidence of absolutely nothing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now tell us something that is really useful please.Guys in a privileged positions in a given marketplace referring to tired clichés and stereotypes is evidence of absolutely nothing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479200</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480522</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>triffid\_98</author>
	<datestamp>1261049880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In other news, whomever shall we turn to to fix the gender gap in Nursing, Auto Repair and oil pipeline Welding? It's clearly all about discriminatory hiring practices.<blockquote><div><p> <i>This just in, there are more female babysitters than males. Oh no, we have a babysitter gender gap!</i></p></div> </blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In other news , whomever shall we turn to to fix the gender gap in Nursing , Auto Repair and oil pipeline Welding ?
It 's clearly all about discriminatory hiring practices .
This just in , there are more female babysitters than males .
Oh no , we have a babysitter gender gap !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In other news, whomever shall we turn to to fix the gender gap in Nursing, Auto Repair and oil pipeline Welding?
It's clearly all about discriminatory hiring practices.
This just in, there are more female babysitters than males.
Oh no, we have a babysitter gender gap! 
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480090</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479668</id>
	<title>Re:Oh please...</title>
	<author>david\_thornley</author>
	<datestamp>1261046400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Well, we know that there is sexism in the workplace in spots, and we know there aren't many women in IT.  That is prima facie reason to suspect there may be sexism involved, and to investigate if we're actually interested.
</p><p>
Ideally, this would be examined in a calm, mature way exactly like the typical Slashdot discussion isn't.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , we know that there is sexism in the workplace in spots , and we know there are n't many women in IT .
That is prima facie reason to suspect there may be sexism involved , and to investigate if we 're actually interested .
Ideally , this would be examined in a calm , mature way exactly like the typical Slashdot discussion is n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Well, we know that there is sexism in the workplace in spots, and we know there aren't many women in IT.
That is prima facie reason to suspect there may be sexism involved, and to investigate if we're actually interested.
Ideally, this would be examined in a calm, mature way exactly like the typical Slashdot discussion isn't.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479192</id>
	<title>Re:I am seeing it.</title>
	<author>Captain Splendid</author>
	<datestamp>1261044720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>And you know what?  Tough shit.  I love how on slashdot everybody's quite happy to take the RIAA/MPAA to task for trying to enshrine their business model into law, but this is similar:  Along a long enough timeline, everything gets commoditized, and IT workers are no exception.<br> <br>

As for respect, please.  management doesn't give a shit about anybody, what makes you so special?</htmltext>
<tokenext>And you know what ?
Tough shit .
I love how on slashdot everybody 's quite happy to take the RIAA/MPAA to task for trying to enshrine their business model into law , but this is similar : Along a long enough timeline , everything gets commoditized , and IT workers are no exception .
As for respect , please .
management does n't give a shit about anybody , what makes you so special ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And you know what?
Tough shit.
I love how on slashdot everybody's quite happy to take the RIAA/MPAA to task for trying to enshrine their business model into law, but this is similar:  Along a long enough timeline, everything gets commoditized, and IT workers are no exception.
As for respect, please.
management doesn't give a shit about anybody, what makes you so special?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30488868</id>
	<title>Free Pizza?</title>
	<author>j3nn3333</author>
	<datestamp>1261158540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Most companies quit buying free pizza years ago!
As a woman that has worked in IT doing hardware/OS/Citrix support I'd say most of the comments here are pretty far off. Women do have their issues in this industry as well as a variety of industries as well. But so do men, and people of various races, religions and sexualities! If you ask me your experience in the industry will be exactly what you make of it, regardless of any of these factors.
I'm 38, and I think I can safely say the primary reason that there aren't a lot of women my age in the industry is because when we were growing up there was still the lingering perception that science/math (computers scarcely existed then) were "boy things." I don't think that is the case so much anymore, and consequently there are a lot more women in IT than there used to be.
I personally very much enjoy being a "geek" on most days! I don't think anyone is driving girls away from anything! Silliness!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Most companies quit buying free pizza years ago !
As a woman that has worked in IT doing hardware/OS/Citrix support I 'd say most of the comments here are pretty far off .
Women do have their issues in this industry as well as a variety of industries as well .
But so do men , and people of various races , religions and sexualities !
If you ask me your experience in the industry will be exactly what you make of it , regardless of any of these factors .
I 'm 38 , and I think I can safely say the primary reason that there are n't a lot of women my age in the industry is because when we were growing up there was still the lingering perception that science/math ( computers scarcely existed then ) were " boy things .
" I do n't think that is the case so much anymore , and consequently there are a lot more women in IT than there used to be .
I personally very much enjoy being a " geek " on most days !
I do n't think anyone is driving girls away from anything !
Silliness !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most companies quit buying free pizza years ago!
As a woman that has worked in IT doing hardware/OS/Citrix support I'd say most of the comments here are pretty far off.
Women do have their issues in this industry as well as a variety of industries as well.
But so do men, and people of various races, religions and sexualities!
If you ask me your experience in the industry will be exactly what you make of it, regardless of any of these factors.
I'm 38, and I think I can safely say the primary reason that there aren't a lot of women my age in the industry is because when we were growing up there was still the lingering perception that science/math (computers scarcely existed then) were "boy things.
" I don't think that is the case so much anymore, and consequently there are a lot more women in IT than there used to be.
I personally very much enjoy being a "geek" on most days!
I don't think anyone is driving girls away from anything!
Silliness!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30482012</id>
	<title>That would be fine....</title>
	<author>jotaeleemeese</author>
	<datestamp>1261058340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... if the IT field was not hostile to women.</p><p>As it is women are treated badly in general terms, but the sexism, very often completely not seen as such, clearly needs to be addressed.</p><p>Many folks out there use your same reasoning just to mask their obvious misogyny.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... if the IT field was not hostile to women.As it is women are treated badly in general terms , but the sexism , very often completely not seen as such , clearly needs to be addressed.Many folks out there use your same reasoning just to mask their obvious misogyny .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... if the IT field was not hostile to women.As it is women are treated badly in general terms, but the sexism, very often completely not seen as such, clearly needs to be addressed.Many folks out there use your same reasoning just to mask their obvious misogyny.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480090</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481550</id>
	<title>Who cares?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261055880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>(Okay, sure, Anonymous Coward cause I'm lazy.)</p><p>I'm a very well paid young female programmer, I make more than most of the guys I graduated with as well as female friends who have their masters in the sciences.  (I have a college diploma.)</p><p>I've had little to no issues being the only female in numerous workplaces, frankly no one cares.   But then again, I don't go looking for discrimination, I do my job, as does everyone else.  It works.  The End.</p><p>Working all night for a company paid pizza?  Not on your life.  You're not in the wrong field, you're in the wrong job.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>( Okay , sure , Anonymous Coward cause I 'm lazy .
) I 'm a very well paid young female programmer , I make more than most of the guys I graduated with as well as female friends who have their masters in the sciences .
( I have a college diploma .
) I 've had little to no issues being the only female in numerous workplaces , frankly no one cares .
But then again , I do n't go looking for discrimination , I do my job , as does everyone else .
It works .
The End.Working all night for a company paid pizza ?
Not on your life .
You 're not in the wrong field , you 're in the wrong job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>(Okay, sure, Anonymous Coward cause I'm lazy.
)I'm a very well paid young female programmer, I make more than most of the guys I graduated with as well as female friends who have their masters in the sciences.
(I have a college diploma.
)I've had little to no issues being the only female in numerous workplaces, frankly no one cares.
But then again, I don't go looking for discrimination, I do my job, as does everyone else.
It works.
The End.Working all night for a company paid pizza?
Not on your life.
You're not in the wrong field, you're in the wrong job.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481168</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocritical</title>
	<author>Nefarious Wheel</author>
	<datestamp>1261053480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Because like everything else, there is a cult that is dead set to create as many conflicts and divisions wherever they can...</p></div><p>Oh for the want of a mod point.  +5 Insightful.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Because like everything else , there is a cult that is dead set to create as many conflicts and divisions wherever they can...Oh for the want of a mod point .
+ 5 Insightful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because like everything else, there is a cult that is dead set to create as many conflicts and divisions wherever they can...Oh for the want of a mod point.
+5 Insightful.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481072</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>fluffernutter</author>
	<datestamp>1261052940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not everything needs to be fair.  Things only need to be fair if there are more males involved in something then femails.  Heaven forbid if they are Caucasian.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not everything needs to be fair .
Things only need to be fair if there are more males involved in something then femails .
Heaven forbid if they are Caucasian .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not everything needs to be fair.
Things only need to be fair if there are more males involved in something then femails.
Heaven forbid if they are Caucasian.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480090</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481234</id>
	<title>Re:The money issue is not as simple as stated</title>
	<author>Fulcrum of Evil</author>
	<datestamp>1261053900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Reminds me of the slogan at my Alma Matter: "Sex kills. Come to RPI and live forever."</htmltext>
<tokenext>Reminds me of the slogan at my Alma Matter : " Sex kills .
Come to RPI and live forever .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Reminds me of the slogan at my Alma Matter: "Sex kills.
Come to RPI and live forever.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479164</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30485862</id>
	<title>Re:Another one of these??</title>
	<author>daeglin</author>
	<datestamp>1261144860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I watch the personalities and, sad to say, make the weakest one my bitch.  Once I do that then I'm on my way to acceptance.  It's how they play, it's how I have to play.</p></div><p>No, this is not how "they" play, this is how you play and I find that highly disgusting.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I watch the personalities and , sad to say , make the weakest one my bitch .
Once I do that then I 'm on my way to acceptance .
It 's how they play , it 's how I have to play.No , this is not how " they " play , this is how you play and I find that highly disgusting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I watch the personalities and, sad to say, make the weakest one my bitch.
Once I do that then I'm on my way to acceptance.
It's how they play, it's how I have to play.No, this is not how "they" play, this is how you play and I find that highly disgusting.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480564</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481310</id>
	<title>May or may not be a problem</title>
	<author>MpVpRb</author>
	<datestamp>1261054500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If a woman decides, on her own, not to get into programming, science or engineering, I see no problem at all...It's her choice.

</p><p>If a woman wants to get into programming, science or engineering, but is prevented by lack of intelligence or talent..That's just the way it is. Not all people, men or women, have what it takes to do this work.

</p><p>If a woman wants to get into programming, science or engineering, but is prevented by law, tradition, custom or peer pressure...Then we all have a problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If a woman decides , on her own , not to get into programming , science or engineering , I see no problem at all...It 's her choice .
If a woman wants to get into programming , science or engineering , but is prevented by lack of intelligence or talent..That 's just the way it is .
Not all people , men or women , have what it takes to do this work .
If a woman wants to get into programming , science or engineering , but is prevented by law , tradition , custom or peer pressure...Then we all have a problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If a woman decides, on her own, not to get into programming, science or engineering, I see no problem at all...It's her choice.
If a woman wants to get into programming, science or engineering, but is prevented by lack of intelligence or talent..That's just the way it is.
Not all people, men or women, have what it takes to do this work.
If a woman wants to get into programming, science or engineering, but is prevented by law, tradition, custom or peer pressure...Then we all have a problem.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480456</id>
	<title>Re:Are you kidding?</title>
	<author>FooAtWFU</author>
	<datestamp>1261049640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wouldn't necessarily trust Slashdot to tell you what conditions are like in the field.
You'll get a lot more horror stories just because horror stories are more interesting
and worth posting.</p><p>
I graduated school, got a good job, am pretty well-paid, and my working hours are 40
 hours a week <i>period</i> (in the "please go home, you've been working too much" sense).
Of course, I'm good at what I do, had lots of preprofessional experience (summer internships),
and <i>during</i> my normal working hours I work hard.
</p><p>
(That said, teaching <i>is</i> good. Though at the primary/secondary levels, I'd be willing to bet it's more exhausting for a lot less money, if those things matter to you.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would n't necessarily trust Slashdot to tell you what conditions are like in the field .
You 'll get a lot more horror stories just because horror stories are more interesting and worth posting .
I graduated school , got a good job , am pretty well-paid , and my working hours are 40 hours a week period ( in the " please go home , you 've been working too much " sense ) .
Of course , I 'm good at what I do , had lots of preprofessional experience ( summer internships ) , and during my normal working hours I work hard .
( That said , teaching is good .
Though at the primary/secondary levels , I 'd be willing to bet it 's more exhausting for a lot less money , if those things matter to you .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wouldn't necessarily trust Slashdot to tell you what conditions are like in the field.
You'll get a lot more horror stories just because horror stories are more interesting
and worth posting.
I graduated school, got a good job, am pretty well-paid, and my working hours are 40
 hours a week period (in the "please go home, you've been working too much" sense).
Of course, I'm good at what I do, had lots of preprofessional experience (summer internships),
and during my normal working hours I work hard.
(That said, teaching is good.
Though at the primary/secondary levels, I'd be willing to bet it's more exhausting for a lot less money, if those things matter to you.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479030</id>
	<title>I am seeing it.</title>
	<author>DaveV1.0</author>
	<datestamp>1261044240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The items he mentions are part of the reason I am trying to get out of IT.</p><p>IT workers are getting smaller and smaller salaries, having to compete with H1-Bs and out-of-country workers, have to deal with job scope creep, idiot managers, and expected to give up any semblance of work/life balance just to keep up.</p><p>It has gotten to the point where working in IT just isn't worth it because the positions just aren't respected.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The items he mentions are part of the reason I am trying to get out of IT.IT workers are getting smaller and smaller salaries , having to compete with H1-Bs and out-of-country workers , have to deal with job scope creep , idiot managers , and expected to give up any semblance of work/life balance just to keep up.It has gotten to the point where working in IT just is n't worth it because the positions just are n't respected .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The items he mentions are part of the reason I am trying to get out of IT.IT workers are getting smaller and smaller salaries, having to compete with H1-Bs and out-of-country workers, have to deal with job scope creep, idiot managers, and expected to give up any semblance of work/life balance just to keep up.It has gotten to the point where working in IT just isn't worth it because the positions just aren't respected.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479378</id>
	<title>Like plumbing.</title>
	<author>gurps\_npc</author>
	<datestamp>1261045380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree that computing has become something closer to the building maintance job, rather than a profession.
<p>
But you can still make a reasonable job as a plumber, even if you are mostly dealing with broken toilets.
</p><p>
The other side is that there ARE still high end jobs available.  But the low barrier to entry and lack of a solid union/accreditation procedure means there is little obviously different (to an outsider) joe shmoe working in IT support (plumber) at a corporation and a $300k/year job at Microsoft/Google (engineer job).
</p><p>The key difference to me is do you say "I'm in IT", or do you say "I build X for Y company."
</p><p>If you are saying "IT", you are the plumber, not an engineer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree that computing has become something closer to the building maintance job , rather than a profession .
But you can still make a reasonable job as a plumber , even if you are mostly dealing with broken toilets .
The other side is that there ARE still high end jobs available .
But the low barrier to entry and lack of a solid union/accreditation procedure means there is little obviously different ( to an outsider ) joe shmoe working in IT support ( plumber ) at a corporation and a $ 300k/year job at Microsoft/Google ( engineer job ) .
The key difference to me is do you say " I 'm in IT " , or do you say " I build X for Y company .
" If you are saying " IT " , you are the plumber , not an engineer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree that computing has become something closer to the building maintance job, rather than a profession.
But you can still make a reasonable job as a plumber, even if you are mostly dealing with broken toilets.
The other side is that there ARE still high end jobs available.
But the low barrier to entry and lack of a solid union/accreditation procedure means there is little obviously different (to an outsider) joe shmoe working in IT support (plumber) at a corporation and a $300k/year job at Microsoft/Google (engineer job).
The key difference to me is do you say "I'm in IT", or do you say "I build X for Y company.
"
If you are saying "IT", you are the plumber, not an engineer.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480706</id>
	<title>Re:And how would one count Lynn Conway... ;)</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261050720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Or the great <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie\_Wilson" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">Sophie / Roger Wilson</a> [wikipedia.org]?

</p><p>
I'm quite sure no-one at work gave a damn about gender when s/he changed from Roger to Sophie.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or the great Sophie / Roger Wilson [ wikipedia.org ] ?
I 'm quite sure no-one at work gave a damn about gender when s/he changed from Roger to Sophie .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Or the great Sophie / Roger Wilson [wikipedia.org]?
I'm quite sure no-one at work gave a damn about gender when s/he changed from Roger to Sophie.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479084</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479308</id>
	<title>The blue collar job of the digital age</title>
	<author>xednieht</author>
	<datestamp>1261045200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Shoveling bits sucks.  It was fun about 10 years ago, but staring at a screen for a few years leaves one wanting for a change.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Shoveling bits sucks .
It was fun about 10 years ago , but staring at a screen for a few years leaves one wanting for a change .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Shoveling bits sucks.
It was fun about 10 years ago, but staring at a screen for a few years leaves one wanting for a change.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30483092</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocritical</title>
	<author>nlindstrom</author>
	<datestamp>1261066320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Said cult is known as the Jews.</p></div><p>Actually, said cult is made up of asshats like you.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Said cult is known as the Jews.Actually , said cult is made up of asshats like you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Said cult is known as the Jews.Actually, said cult is made up of asshats like you.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480216</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30490838</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>Have Brain Will Rent</author>
	<datestamp>1261165260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Anything a man can do, a woman can do, with VERY few exceptions, and <b>often enough, better</b>.</p></div><p>That's a nice bit of sexism right there.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Anything a man can do , a woman can do , with VERY few exceptions , and often enough , better.That 's a nice bit of sexism right there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anything a man can do, a woman can do, with VERY few exceptions, and often enough, better.That's a nice bit of sexism right there.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30483442</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479832</id>
	<title>Re:umm yeah</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261047060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why were you running, and why weren't you looking where you were going?</p><p>But more importantly, was she hot?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why were you running , and why were n't you looking where you were going ? But more importantly , was she hot ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why were you running, and why weren't you looking where you were going?But more importantly, was she hot?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479394</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30484480</id>
	<title>maternity leave</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261126920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is it equal for both men and women yet? no quit whining and come back when it's fixed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is it equal for both men and women yet ?
no quit whining and come back when it 's fixed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is it equal for both men and women yet?
no quit whining and come back when it's fixed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30482744</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261063380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've worked 40 hours per week flat for the last two years (except for vacations here and there), full health benefits, etc.  Only 80k per year so I'm not rolling it in or anything... but I'm still in my 20s and I don't live in California so it's a comfortable salary and life.  I know lots of other people who have jobs with similar conditions at different companies around here, too.  Not sure what people like you on slashdot are complaining about.  Maybe there is still a glut of people looking for 100k per year jobs doing web design?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've worked 40 hours per week flat for the last two years ( except for vacations here and there ) , full health benefits , etc .
Only 80k per year so I 'm not rolling it in or anything... but I 'm still in my 20s and I do n't live in California so it 's a comfortable salary and life .
I know lots of other people who have jobs with similar conditions at different companies around here , too .
Not sure what people like you on slashdot are complaining about .
Maybe there is still a glut of people looking for 100k per year jobs doing web design ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've worked 40 hours per week flat for the last two years (except for vacations here and there), full health benefits, etc.
Only 80k per year so I'm not rolling it in or anything... but I'm still in my 20s and I don't live in California so it's a comfortable salary and life.
I know lots of other people who have jobs with similar conditions at different companies around here, too.
Not sure what people like you on slashdot are complaining about.
Maybe there is still a glut of people looking for 100k per year jobs doing web design?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479770</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480010</id>
	<title>Re:Oh please...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261047840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wait, there are still conferences that people are attending?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wait , there are still conferences that people are attending ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wait, there are still conferences that people are attending?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479276</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30491024</id>
	<title>Re:From a phsychological point of view...</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1261165920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Perhaps the problem isn't that men are emotional in general, its that you are such a douche bag employee that they have a need to raise their voice, shake their head and point fingers at YOU to get the point across.</p><p>I of course know nothing about you, but in my experience there are two times when what you've stated happens.</p><p>1) When I fuck up royally and it puts a lot of stress on the manager and it was something where I really did screw it up, not an accident, just dropped the ball screwed up.</p><p>2) When the manager screws up and I could have stopped him and didn't, and he/she is pissed off at me for not doing the proper job supporting him/her that I was supposed to.</p><p>I to have been at this a few years, and those are the only times anyones ever done what you're saying to me.  Its happened with both men and women managers.  I can't honestly say it happens more with one than the other.  When I realized why I was having those things done to me I made it my priority to not fuck off any more, rather than sit around an analyze it from a gender and emotion perspective.  You might want to consider that next time some guy is pointing his finger at you and shaking his head.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps the problem is n't that men are emotional in general , its that you are such a douche bag employee that they have a need to raise their voice , shake their head and point fingers at YOU to get the point across.I of course know nothing about you , but in my experience there are two times when what you 've stated happens.1 ) When I fuck up royally and it puts a lot of stress on the manager and it was something where I really did screw it up , not an accident , just dropped the ball screwed up.2 ) When the manager screws up and I could have stopped him and did n't , and he/she is pissed off at me for not doing the proper job supporting him/her that I was supposed to.I to have been at this a few years , and those are the only times anyones ever done what you 're saying to me .
Its happened with both men and women managers .
I ca n't honestly say it happens more with one than the other .
When I realized why I was having those things done to me I made it my priority to not fuck off any more , rather than sit around an analyze it from a gender and emotion perspective .
You might want to consider that next time some guy is pointing his finger at you and shaking his head .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps the problem isn't that men are emotional in general, its that you are such a douche bag employee that they have a need to raise their voice, shake their head and point fingers at YOU to get the point across.I of course know nothing about you, but in my experience there are two times when what you've stated happens.1) When I fuck up royally and it puts a lot of stress on the manager and it was something where I really did screw it up, not an accident, just dropped the ball screwed up.2) When the manager screws up and I could have stopped him and didn't, and he/she is pissed off at me for not doing the proper job supporting him/her that I was supposed to.I to have been at this a few years, and those are the only times anyones ever done what you're saying to me.
Its happened with both men and women managers.
I can't honestly say it happens more with one than the other.
When I realized why I was having those things done to me I made it my priority to not fuck off any more, rather than sit around an analyze it from a gender and emotion perspective.
You might want to consider that next time some guy is pointing his finger at you and shaking his head.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480400</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479856</id>
	<title>Re:Garbage men..</title>
	<author>bugs2squash</author>
	<datestamp>1261047120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's because you're only considering stories on slashdot.org. If you were a member of trashdot.org you would see more.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's because you 're only considering stories on slashdot.org .
If you were a member of trashdot.org you would see more .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's because you're only considering stories on slashdot.org.
If you were a member of trashdot.org you would see more.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479242</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480282</id>
	<title>Or perhaps...</title>
	<author>Synchis</author>
	<datestamp>1261049040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Geeky/Nerdy paraphernalia is unappealing to women...</p><p>Am I the only one who got this from that article?</p><p>I don't think its geeks that are driving women out of CS. I think men and women think and see things in different ways. Our brains function very differently. The very idea that they could draw the conclusion that they did based solely on womens reactions to varrying degrees of geekery... it's quite a stretch.</p><p>Just my two cents though...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Geeky/Nerdy paraphernalia is unappealing to women...Am I the only one who got this from that article ? I do n't think its geeks that are driving women out of CS .
I think men and women think and see things in different ways .
Our brains function very differently .
The very idea that they could draw the conclusion that they did based solely on womens reactions to varrying degrees of geekery... it 's quite a stretch.Just my two cents though.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Geeky/Nerdy paraphernalia is unappealing to women...Am I the only one who got this from that article?I don't think its geeks that are driving women out of CS.
I think men and women think and see things in different ways.
Our brains function very differently.
The very idea that they could draw the conclusion that they did based solely on womens reactions to varrying degrees of geekery... it's quite a stretch.Just my two cents though...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30484266</id>
	<title>Women + likely to have penis than interest in IT</title>
	<author>Nicolas MONNET</author>
	<datestamp>1261166520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>is always more sexism?</p><p>To explain away the lack of women in IT, the only explanation given is always one that is even more sexist, ie that the environment is not girly enough. Supposedly all those Star Trek posters are driving them away, so the answer's got to be Hello Kitty stickers or something<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... right.</p><p>I currently work in a publicly traded multinational corporation. The ratio of women to men in non-IT positions in middle management is roughly 50\%. In upper management it's much lower for some reason, and I can suspect you can find some fault there. However for IT it's below 1\%, and that's in line with the job applications we get. There is no late pizza+coke coding at night sessions. We have 35 h work week with plenty of vacation and flexible work hours, as every one else.</p><p>Women just don't want to do that kind of work. It's a good question as to why they don't want to, but they don't want.</p><p>Just look at traditionally male jobs, such as police. Women nowadays are the majority of qualified applicants for police jobs -- largely because policemen wannabe are often too dumb to pass the tests, I shit you not. It's a real problem here, well not a problem for me but a problem for the administration for some reason. Contrast this with IT. I've heard several time recruiters say that being a woman was a plus for a candidate -- except that there aren't any!</p><p>So you can try to find hidden disincentives all you want. Somehow someone is being mean to them -- I know, all those hormone driven geeks, overflowing with testosterone<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... ah ah ah let me catch my breath. No, seriously. They don't want those jobs. Period.</p><p>Let me put it another way. Transgendered people are very rare in the population. Much rarer than women, obviously. I know only two personally, (formerly) men who want to be women. They're both in IT -- and I wasn't acquainted to them through work. I don't personally know any woman working in IT.</p><p>My personal conclusion: women with an interest in IT careers are biologically rarer than women with penises.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>is always more sexism ? To explain away the lack of women in IT , the only explanation given is always one that is even more sexist , ie that the environment is not girly enough .
Supposedly all those Star Trek posters are driving them away , so the answer 's got to be Hello Kitty stickers or something ... right.I currently work in a publicly traded multinational corporation .
The ratio of women to men in non-IT positions in middle management is roughly 50 \ % .
In upper management it 's much lower for some reason , and I can suspect you can find some fault there .
However for IT it 's below 1 \ % , and that 's in line with the job applications we get .
There is no late pizza + coke coding at night sessions .
We have 35 h work week with plenty of vacation and flexible work hours , as every one else.Women just do n't want to do that kind of work .
It 's a good question as to why they do n't want to , but they do n't want.Just look at traditionally male jobs , such as police .
Women nowadays are the majority of qualified applicants for police jobs -- largely because policemen wannabe are often too dumb to pass the tests , I shit you not .
It 's a real problem here , well not a problem for me but a problem for the administration for some reason .
Contrast this with IT .
I 've heard several time recruiters say that being a woman was a plus for a candidate -- except that there are n't any ! So you can try to find hidden disincentives all you want .
Somehow someone is being mean to them -- I know , all those hormone driven geeks , overflowing with testosterone ... ah ah ah let me catch my breath .
No , seriously .
They do n't want those jobs .
Period.Let me put it another way .
Transgendered people are very rare in the population .
Much rarer than women , obviously .
I know only two personally , ( formerly ) men who want to be women .
They 're both in IT -- and I was n't acquainted to them through work .
I do n't personally know any woman working in IT.My personal conclusion : women with an interest in IT careers are biologically rarer than women with penises .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>is always more sexism?To explain away the lack of women in IT, the only explanation given is always one that is even more sexist, ie that the environment is not girly enough.
Supposedly all those Star Trek posters are driving them away, so the answer's got to be Hello Kitty stickers or something ... right.I currently work in a publicly traded multinational corporation.
The ratio of women to men in non-IT positions in middle management is roughly 50\%.
In upper management it's much lower for some reason, and I can suspect you can find some fault there.
However for IT it's below 1\%, and that's in line with the job applications we get.
There is no late pizza+coke coding at night sessions.
We have 35 h work week with plenty of vacation and flexible work hours, as every one else.Women just don't want to do that kind of work.
It's a good question as to why they don't want to, but they don't want.Just look at traditionally male jobs, such as police.
Women nowadays are the majority of qualified applicants for police jobs -- largely because policemen wannabe are often too dumb to pass the tests, I shit you not.
It's a real problem here, well not a problem for me but a problem for the administration for some reason.
Contrast this with IT.
I've heard several time recruiters say that being a woman was a plus for a candidate -- except that there aren't any!So you can try to find hidden disincentives all you want.
Somehow someone is being mean to them -- I know, all those hormone driven geeks, overflowing with testosterone ... ah ah ah let me catch my breath.
No, seriously.
They don't want those jobs.
Period.Let me put it another way.
Transgendered people are very rare in the population.
Much rarer than women, obviously.
I know only two personally, (formerly) men who want to be women.
They're both in IT -- and I wasn't acquainted to them through work.
I don't personally know any woman working in IT.My personal conclusion: women with an interest in IT careers are biologically rarer than women with penises.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30485282</id>
	<title>http://www.realuggbuy.com</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261137840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>20091209C1ZHR<br><a href="http://www.realuggbuy.com/ugg-womens-classic-tall-patent-paisley-sand-p-1102.html" title="realuggbuy.com" rel="nofollow">ugg classic cardy boot</a> [realuggbuy.com] </p><p><a href="http://www.realuggbuy.com/ugg-womens-classic-tall-patent-paisley-sand-p-1102.html" title="realuggbuy.com" rel="nofollow">cheap ugg cardy boots</a> [realuggbuy.com] </p><p><a href="http://www.realuggbuy.com/ugg-womens-classic-tall-patent-paisley-sand-p-1102.html" title="realuggbuy.com" rel="nofollow">ugg 5819 on sale</a> [realuggbuy.com]</p></htmltext>
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</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30485384</id>
	<title>Re:I would have hoped...</title>
	<author>bluewolfcub</author>
	<datestamp>1261139700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I would have as well.
For years there was discrimination against women in medicine. Wasn't a problem back then.<br>
Now at our universities in ireland, there are far more women doing medicine courses than men. Now suddenly, it's a problem, and there needs to be "gender balance" again.<br>
As well as changing the format of our final secondary school exams (which coincidentally the girls did better in than boys on average) to incorporate hpat tests.
<br> <br>
Why can't they all just let people do the subjects they want instead of aiming for 50-50 in general? My computer science course had 50-50 girls/boys as far as I remember. Don't know how many graduated as I switched course.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would have as well .
For years there was discrimination against women in medicine .
Was n't a problem back then .
Now at our universities in ireland , there are far more women doing medicine courses than men .
Now suddenly , it 's a problem , and there needs to be " gender balance " again .
As well as changing the format of our final secondary school exams ( which coincidentally the girls did better in than boys on average ) to incorporate hpat tests .
Why ca n't they all just let people do the subjects they want instead of aiming for 50-50 in general ?
My computer science course had 50-50 girls/boys as far as I remember .
Do n't know how many graduated as I switched course .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would have as well.
For years there was discrimination against women in medicine.
Wasn't a problem back then.
Now at our universities in ireland, there are far more women doing medicine courses than men.
Now suddenly, it's a problem, and there needs to be "gender balance" again.
As well as changing the format of our final secondary school exams (which coincidentally the girls did better in than boys on average) to incorporate hpat tests.
Why can't they all just let people do the subjects they want instead of aiming for 50-50 in general?
My computer science course had 50-50 girls/boys as far as I remember.
Don't know how many graduated as I switched course.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480104</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480292</id>
	<title>no girls at university</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261049040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I live in Italy, I'm at the Computer Science Engineering faculty (the one called EECS in USA, Computing in UK).<br>I started university back in 2002, there were only 4-5 girls in a class of 120+ students. After leaving university for need of working, I reentered to finish it two years ago.<br>Now there are a little more girls: 10-12 in every class of 120+ students.<br>Still few.<br>Same story for Electronic Engineering and for Telecommunications Engineering and some others.<br>But there are lots of Engineering faculties where the male/female proportion is balanced, such as Business Engineering,  and even faculties where there are more girls then boys, such as Biomedical Engineering.<br>When you subscribe to the university there are no obstacles in the faculty choice, nobody knows why girls never choose computer-related faculties.<br>Same story for technical high schools: very few girls. It seems that few girls are interested into these subjects. Why? Nobody knows.<br>But some years later on your workplace you find women complaining that there are more men in the IT industry.<br>How nice.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I live in Italy , I 'm at the Computer Science Engineering faculty ( the one called EECS in USA , Computing in UK ) .I started university back in 2002 , there were only 4-5 girls in a class of 120 + students .
After leaving university for need of working , I reentered to finish it two years ago.Now there are a little more girls : 10-12 in every class of 120 + students.Still few.Same story for Electronic Engineering and for Telecommunications Engineering and some others.But there are lots of Engineering faculties where the male/female proportion is balanced , such as Business Engineering , and even faculties where there are more girls then boys , such as Biomedical Engineering.When you subscribe to the university there are no obstacles in the faculty choice , nobody knows why girls never choose computer-related faculties.Same story for technical high schools : very few girls .
It seems that few girls are interested into these subjects .
Why ? Nobody knows.But some years later on your workplace you find women complaining that there are more men in the IT industry.How nice .
: - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I live in Italy, I'm at the Computer Science Engineering faculty (the one called EECS in USA, Computing in UK).I started university back in 2002, there were only 4-5 girls in a class of 120+ students.
After leaving university for need of working, I reentered to finish it two years ago.Now there are a little more girls: 10-12 in every class of 120+ students.Still few.Same story for Electronic Engineering and for Telecommunications Engineering and some others.But there are lots of Engineering faculties where the male/female proportion is balanced, such as Business Engineering,  and even faculties where there are more girls then boys, such as Biomedical Engineering.When you subscribe to the university there are no obstacles in the faculty choice, nobody knows why girls never choose computer-related faculties.Same story for technical high schools: very few girls.
It seems that few girls are interested into these subjects.
Why? Nobody knows.But some years later on your workplace you find women complaining that there are more men in the IT industry.How nice.
:-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480908</id>
	<title>Re:Am I the only female on Slashdot?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261051980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Females tend to help each other to feel good.</p><p>I think I've seen that video too. It was pretty hot!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Females tend to help each other to feel good.I think I 've seen that video too .
It was pretty hot !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Females tend to help each other to feel good.I think I've seen that video too.
It was pretty hot!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480070</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479380</id>
	<title>Importance not exaggerated</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261045440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"In fact, 'I don't think 'gender issues in computing' is important enough to merit the attention it gets,'"</p><p>I disagree.  The fundamental issue here is pretty simple: is there an untapped resource of potentially excellent computer scientists and/or IT personnel that are being turned off the subject for reasons having nothing to do with their actual capabilities?  If so, is there a way to recruit them?</p><p>I don't know the answer to these questions, and they are going to be both controversial and difficult to answer, but they are important to consider if you want the field to thrive.  As long as a gender disparity exists, writing it off as unimportant and not worthy of investigation isn't the right approach.  You could ask the same sort of question about other fields and ones where the gender disparity is the other way around.  Does it represent an unnecessary missed opportunity?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" In fact , 'I do n't think 'gender issues in computing ' is important enough to merit the attention it gets, ' " I disagree .
The fundamental issue here is pretty simple : is there an untapped resource of potentially excellent computer scientists and/or IT personnel that are being turned off the subject for reasons having nothing to do with their actual capabilities ?
If so , is there a way to recruit them ? I do n't know the answer to these questions , and they are going to be both controversial and difficult to answer , but they are important to consider if you want the field to thrive .
As long as a gender disparity exists , writing it off as unimportant and not worthy of investigation is n't the right approach .
You could ask the same sort of question about other fields and ones where the gender disparity is the other way around .
Does it represent an unnecessary missed opportunity ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"In fact, 'I don't think 'gender issues in computing' is important enough to merit the attention it gets,'"I disagree.
The fundamental issue here is pretty simple: is there an untapped resource of potentially excellent computer scientists and/or IT personnel that are being turned off the subject for reasons having nothing to do with their actual capabilities?
If so, is there a way to recruit them?I don't know the answer to these questions, and they are going to be both controversial and difficult to answer, but they are important to consider if you want the field to thrive.
As long as a gender disparity exists, writing it off as unimportant and not worthy of investigation isn't the right approach.
You could ask the same sort of question about other fields and ones where the gender disparity is the other way around.
Does it represent an unnecessary missed opportunity?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479552</id>
	<title>There are upsides and downsides</title>
	<author>Rene S. Hollan</author>
	<datestamp>1261045920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The upside is that we get to do something we actually enjoy. The deterministic behavior of programmable electronics (becoming indeterministic only when events can't be sequenced to the necessary temporal resolution) draws those with rational minds. For those of us with a good theoretical background in the mathematics behind it (and often one or two degrees to back that up), architecture positions pay well. I've been in the biz since 1975 from the ripe old age of 14.</p><p>The downsides, however, are many:</p><p>1) Often management doesn't understand the subtle reasons behind a problem, or why a particular solution that is easy and obvious is completely "wrong" (or at least inconsistent with future requirements).</p><p>2) There is no paid overtime. Salaries generally compensate for this, and frankly professionals SHOULD be expected to fix their errors on their own time (and their own dime). However, that does not work well in environments where workers are fungible: doofus A messes up, and expert B is stuck cleaning up the mess, often in "crisis mode" on his own time. YMMV depending on the shop. Good people tend to leave bad shops, though.</p><p>3) Academic training has given way to "trade skills". I am appalled that many undergraduate programs focus on the IDE or bloated library of the day, instead of fundamental algorithms and classic processor architecture. Add to this the fact that many non-experts can't tell the difference between the skilled and the not so skilled.</p><p>Still, I wouldn't do anything different.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The upside is that we get to do something we actually enjoy .
The deterministic behavior of programmable electronics ( becoming indeterministic only when events ca n't be sequenced to the necessary temporal resolution ) draws those with rational minds .
For those of us with a good theoretical background in the mathematics behind it ( and often one or two degrees to back that up ) , architecture positions pay well .
I 've been in the biz since 1975 from the ripe old age of 14.The downsides , however , are many : 1 ) Often management does n't understand the subtle reasons behind a problem , or why a particular solution that is easy and obvious is completely " wrong " ( or at least inconsistent with future requirements ) .2 ) There is no paid overtime .
Salaries generally compensate for this , and frankly professionals SHOULD be expected to fix their errors on their own time ( and their own dime ) .
However , that does not work well in environments where workers are fungible : doofus A messes up , and expert B is stuck cleaning up the mess , often in " crisis mode " on his own time .
YMMV depending on the shop .
Good people tend to leave bad shops , though.3 ) Academic training has given way to " trade skills " .
I am appalled that many undergraduate programs focus on the IDE or bloated library of the day , instead of fundamental algorithms and classic processor architecture .
Add to this the fact that many non-experts ca n't tell the difference between the skilled and the not so skilled.Still , I would n't do anything different .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The upside is that we get to do something we actually enjoy.
The deterministic behavior of programmable electronics (becoming indeterministic only when events can't be sequenced to the necessary temporal resolution) draws those with rational minds.
For those of us with a good theoretical background in the mathematics behind it (and often one or two degrees to back that up), architecture positions pay well.
I've been in the biz since 1975 from the ripe old age of 14.The downsides, however, are many:1) Often management doesn't understand the subtle reasons behind a problem, or why a particular solution that is easy and obvious is completely "wrong" (or at least inconsistent with future requirements).2) There is no paid overtime.
Salaries generally compensate for this, and frankly professionals SHOULD be expected to fix their errors on their own time (and their own dime).
However, that does not work well in environments where workers are fungible: doofus A messes up, and expert B is stuck cleaning up the mess, often in "crisis mode" on his own time.
YMMV depending on the shop.
Good people tend to leave bad shops, though.3) Academic training has given way to "trade skills".
I am appalled that many undergraduate programs focus on the IDE or bloated library of the day, instead of fundamental algorithms and classic processor architecture.
Add to this the fact that many non-experts can't tell the difference between the skilled and the not so skilled.Still, I wouldn't do anything different.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479428</id>
	<title>Re:From a phsychological point of view...</title>
	<author>jjohnson</author>
	<datestamp>1261045560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>We all know men and women are different</i></p><p>No, we don't all know this.  More specifically, we don't all "know" that differences that superficially exist matter in some material way to whether or not someone can have a meaningful and productive career in a particular area; we also don't "know" that those apparent differences are biological, as opposed to socially conditioned (and thus, whether we should simply accept them, or challenge as a regrettable and changeable part of the status quo).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We all know men and women are differentNo , we do n't all know this .
More specifically , we do n't all " know " that differences that superficially exist matter in some material way to whether or not someone can have a meaningful and productive career in a particular area ; we also do n't " know " that those apparent differences are biological , as opposed to socially conditioned ( and thus , whether we should simply accept them , or challenge as a regrettable and changeable part of the status quo ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We all know men and women are differentNo, we don't all know this.
More specifically, we don't all "know" that differences that superficially exist matter in some material way to whether or not someone can have a meaningful and productive career in a particular area; we also don't "know" that those apparent differences are biological, as opposed to socially conditioned (and thus, whether we should simply accept them, or challenge as a regrettable and changeable part of the status quo).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479200</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480120</id>
	<title>A case in point.</title>
	<author>CountBrass</author>
	<datestamp>1261048380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There aren't "enough" women in computing because they don't want to be.<br><br>In any case, what's "enough" actually mean in this context? It's a leading question to ask if there are "enough women in computing".</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are n't " enough " women in computing because they do n't want to be.In any case , what 's " enough " actually mean in this context ?
It 's a leading question to ask if there are " enough women in computing " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There aren't "enough" women in computing because they don't want to be.In any case, what's "enough" actually mean in this context?
It's a leading question to ask if there are "enough women in computing".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481886</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>mapleneckblues</author>
	<datestamp>1261057500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's still a great field with good salary, sane work hours and prospects for advancements </p></div><p>I'll have one of what this guy is smoking please.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's still a great field with good salary , sane work hours and prospects for advancements I 'll have one of what this guy is smoking please .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's still a great field with good salary, sane work hours and prospects for advancements I'll have one of what this guy is smoking please.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481288</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>digitig</author>
	<datestamp>1261054320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's still a great field with good salary, sane work hours and prospects for advancements. It's just not as compelling as during dot com boom. Women should stop making excuses and go into any good field they like.</p></div><p>Most women <em>have</em> stopped making excuses and <em>are</em> going into whatever field they like. Which usually isn't IT. Which pisses off the political control freaks who want them to want what men want, and lets those with a chip on their shoulder pretend that there's a problem.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's still a great field with good salary , sane work hours and prospects for advancements .
It 's just not as compelling as during dot com boom .
Women should stop making excuses and go into any good field they like.Most women have stopped making excuses and are going into whatever field they like .
Which usually is n't IT .
Which pisses off the political control freaks who want them to want what men want , and lets those with a chip on their shoulder pretend that there 's a problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's still a great field with good salary, sane work hours and prospects for advancements.
It's just not as compelling as during dot com boom.
Women should stop making excuses and go into any good field they like.Most women have stopped making excuses and are going into whatever field they like.
Which usually isn't IT.
Which pisses off the political control freaks who want them to want what men want, and lets those with a chip on their shoulder pretend that there's a problem.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30478998</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479484</id>
	<title>Re:I am seeing it.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261045740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Another reason to get out of IT will be to avoid the mandatory sex change operation to solve this issue.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Another reason to get out of IT will be to avoid the mandatory sex change operation to solve this issue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Another reason to get out of IT will be to avoid the mandatory sex change operation to solve this issue.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30484750</id>
	<title>Re:Are you kidding?</title>
	<author>webreaper</author>
	<datestamp>1261130520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would suggest that whilst you think you're a geek, you're probably not.

</p><p>I've been a software developer for 17 years, across 7 or 8 different jobs, in different industries ranging from e-commerce website construction/development, through desktop publishing, and (at the moment) finance. In all those years I've never been mentally exhausted, because I love developing software. I often wake up in the middle of the night thinking about how I'm going to fix/write something, and have to write it down. I regularly write code in my spare time. I've also only ever been on-call for all day/night 2 years of that whole career, and that was when I worked for a small company (larger companies have proper support structures so people are only on call at specific, rota'd times). It's perfectly possible to find a software dev job that doesn't require long hours or being on call.

</p><p>And if you think that life in teaching is going to be a bed of roses, think again - you'll earn far less than you would in IT, and you'll work just as hard (most teachers I know regularly take 2-3 hours' marking work home most evenings during term-time).

</p><p>You'd be better off finding out what the jobs you want to do are actually like, than basing it on stereotypes and opinions from<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would suggest that whilst you think you 're a geek , you 're probably not .
I 've been a software developer for 17 years , across 7 or 8 different jobs , in different industries ranging from e-commerce website construction/development , through desktop publishing , and ( at the moment ) finance .
In all those years I 've never been mentally exhausted , because I love developing software .
I often wake up in the middle of the night thinking about how I 'm going to fix/write something , and have to write it down .
I regularly write code in my spare time .
I 've also only ever been on-call for all day/night 2 years of that whole career , and that was when I worked for a small company ( larger companies have proper support structures so people are only on call at specific , rota 'd times ) .
It 's perfectly possible to find a software dev job that does n't require long hours or being on call .
And if you think that life in teaching is going to be a bed of roses , think again - you 'll earn far less than you would in IT , and you 'll work just as hard ( most teachers I know regularly take 2-3 hours ' marking work home most evenings during term-time ) .
You 'd be better off finding out what the jobs you want to do are actually like , than basing it on stereotypes and opinions from / .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would suggest that whilst you think you're a geek, you're probably not.
I've been a software developer for 17 years, across 7 or 8 different jobs, in different industries ranging from e-commerce website construction/development, through desktop publishing, and (at the moment) finance.
In all those years I've never been mentally exhausted, because I love developing software.
I often wake up in the middle of the night thinking about how I'm going to fix/write something, and have to write it down.
I regularly write code in my spare time.
I've also only ever been on-call for all day/night 2 years of that whole career, and that was when I worked for a small company (larger companies have proper support structures so people are only on call at specific, rota'd times).
It's perfectly possible to find a software dev job that doesn't require long hours or being on call.
And if you think that life in teaching is going to be a bed of roses, think again - you'll earn far less than you would in IT, and you'll work just as hard (most teachers I know regularly take 2-3 hours' marking work home most evenings during term-time).
You'd be better off finding out what the jobs you want to do are actually like, than basing it on stereotypes and opinions from /.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480144</id>
	<title>Re:It's a matter of fun</title>
	<author>idontgno</author>
	<datestamp>1261048500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>God knows how much the computer games I played in the 1960s affected me.</p><p>I have a minor experiment in gender ongoing in my household right now. I have twin 4-year-olds, a girl and a boy. We've made no overt (that we're aware of) attempts to influence their choices in toys, clothing (mostly), and the like.</p><p>At this stage, my daughter seems to sincerely prefer stereotypically "girly" activities. The lad likes to try to take stuff apart.</p><p>The singular of "data" is not "anecdote", so take this isolated case study for what it is. But I find it very interesting.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>God knows how much the computer games I played in the 1960s affected me.I have a minor experiment in gender ongoing in my household right now .
I have twin 4-year-olds , a girl and a boy .
We 've made no overt ( that we 're aware of ) attempts to influence their choices in toys , clothing ( mostly ) , and the like.At this stage , my daughter seems to sincerely prefer stereotypically " girly " activities .
The lad likes to try to take stuff apart.The singular of " data " is not " anecdote " , so take this isolated case study for what it is .
But I find it very interesting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>God knows how much the computer games I played in the 1960s affected me.I have a minor experiment in gender ongoing in my household right now.
I have twin 4-year-olds, a girl and a boy.
We've made no overt (that we're aware of) attempts to influence their choices in toys, clothing (mostly), and the like.At this stage, my daughter seems to sincerely prefer stereotypically "girly" activities.
The lad likes to try to take stuff apart.The singular of "data" is not "anecdote", so take this isolated case study for what it is.
But I find it very interesting.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30479160</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30482686</id>
	<title>Wait a minute....</title>
	<author>sys\_mast</author>
	<datestamp>1261062960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>....You get pizza for overnights?</p><p>all i get is stale chips out of a vending machine, paid for by me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>....You get pizza for overnights ? all i get is stale chips out of a vending machine , paid for by me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>....You get pizza for overnights?all i get is stale chips out of a vending machine, paid for by me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30481192</id>
	<title>Neither too many nor too few.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261053600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't care if there are many, few, none or all women in IT. There is no such thing as too many or too few.</p><p>All I care about is whether anyone was disadvantaged in them being there or not being there.</p><p>In my life I have heard a few loud voices claiming that there is discrimination but have witnessed with my own eyes the way that many (most) women avoid talk about computers and show little desire to tinker with the hardware. Those few who do, have been welcomed into the crowd. The average greasy nerd would be in heaven if a girl or two were to show an interest in his obsession (computers, not... anyway).</p><p>God how I get fed up with the simpletons who take a few figures and read their own sorry prejudices into them, without the slightest effort to justify it... and while we're at it, no, dogs are not being discriminated against because there are far fewer of them to be found up trees than there are cats.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't care if there are many , few , none or all women in IT .
There is no such thing as too many or too few.All I care about is whether anyone was disadvantaged in them being there or not being there.In my life I have heard a few loud voices claiming that there is discrimination but have witnessed with my own eyes the way that many ( most ) women avoid talk about computers and show little desire to tinker with the hardware .
Those few who do , have been welcomed into the crowd .
The average greasy nerd would be in heaven if a girl or two were to show an interest in his obsession ( computers , not... anyway ) .God how I get fed up with the simpletons who take a few figures and read their own sorry prejudices into them , without the slightest effort to justify it... and while we 're at it , no , dogs are not being discriminated against because there are far fewer of them to be found up trees than there are cats .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't care if there are many, few, none or all women in IT.
There is no such thing as too many or too few.All I care about is whether anyone was disadvantaged in them being there or not being there.In my life I have heard a few loud voices claiming that there is discrimination but have witnessed with my own eyes the way that many (most) women avoid talk about computers and show little desire to tinker with the hardware.
Those few who do, have been welcomed into the crowd.
The average greasy nerd would be in heaven if a girl or two were to show an interest in his obsession (computers, not... anyway).God how I get fed up with the simpletons who take a few figures and read their own sorry prejudices into them, without the slightest effort to justify it... and while we're at it, no, dogs are not being discriminated against because there are far fewer of them to be found up trees than there are cats.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30480668</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah right</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261050540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Women should stop making excuses</p></div></blockquote><p>
*cough* *cough*, *ahem*  Yeah<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...  *no* idea why they wouldn't want to work with people like you. <br> <br> If you like the sexual harassment, stick around for the blatant stereotype hour followed by the verbal abuse showcase!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Women should stop making excuses * cough * * cough * , * ahem * Yeah ... * no * idea why they would n't want to work with people like you .
If you like the sexual harassment , stick around for the blatant stereotype hour followed by the verbal abuse showcase !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Women should stop making excuses
*cough* *cough*, *ahem*  Yeah ...  *no* idea why they wouldn't want to work with people like you.
If you like the sexual harassment, stick around for the blatant stereotype hour followed by the verbal abuse showcase!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_17_2043254.30478998</parent>
</comment>
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