<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_12_13_1346221</id>
	<title>EU Recommends Noise Limits On MP3 Players</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1260713580000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>A story at the BBC notes increasing pressure from the European Commission to set standards that would <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk\_news/politics/8410302.stm">limit the maximum volume on portable MP3 players</a>. Their reasoning is that it would protect users from damaging their hearing after listening to loud music for extended periods. Quoting:
<i>"This follows a report last year warning that up to 10m people in the EU face permanent hearing loss from listening to loud music for prolonged periods. EU experts want the default maximum setting to be 85 decibels, according to BBC One's Politics Show. Users would be able to override this setting to reach a top limit of 100 decibels. ... Some personal players examined in testing facilities have been found to reach 120 decibels, the equivalent of a jet taking off, and no safety default level currently applies, although manufacturers are obliged to print information about risks in the instruction manuals. Modern personal players are seen as more dangerous than stationary players or old-fashioned cassette or disk players because they can store hours of music and are often listened to while in traffic with the volume very high to drown out outside noise."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>A story at the BBC notes increasing pressure from the European Commission to set standards that would limit the maximum volume on portable MP3 players .
Their reasoning is that it would protect users from damaging their hearing after listening to loud music for extended periods .
Quoting : " This follows a report last year warning that up to 10m people in the EU face permanent hearing loss from listening to loud music for prolonged periods .
EU experts want the default maximum setting to be 85 decibels , according to BBC One 's Politics Show .
Users would be able to override this setting to reach a top limit of 100 decibels .
... Some personal players examined in testing facilities have been found to reach 120 decibels , the equivalent of a jet taking off , and no safety default level currently applies , although manufacturers are obliged to print information about risks in the instruction manuals .
Modern personal players are seen as more dangerous than stationary players or old-fashioned cassette or disk players because they can store hours of music and are often listened to while in traffic with the volume very high to drown out outside noise .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A story at the BBC notes increasing pressure from the European Commission to set standards that would limit the maximum volume on portable MP3 players.
Their reasoning is that it would protect users from damaging their hearing after listening to loud music for extended periods.
Quoting:
"This follows a report last year warning that up to 10m people in the EU face permanent hearing loss from listening to loud music for prolonged periods.
EU experts want the default maximum setting to be 85 decibels, according to BBC One's Politics Show.
Users would be able to override this setting to reach a top limit of 100 decibels.
... Some personal players examined in testing facilities have been found to reach 120 decibels, the equivalent of a jet taking off, and no safety default level currently applies, although manufacturers are obliged to print information about risks in the instruction manuals.
Modern personal players are seen as more dangerous than stationary players or old-fashioned cassette or disk players because they can store hours of music and are often listened to while in traffic with the volume very high to drown out outside noise.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30424142</id>
	<title>Re:Nanny state</title>
	<author>Nonillion</author>
	<datestamp>1260734580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Next we'll see cops with sound pressure meters and issuing tickets (read: REVENUE GENERATION) to save us from ourselves.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Next we 'll see cops with sound pressure meters and issuing tickets ( read : REVENUE GENERATION ) to save us from ourselves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Next we'll see cops with sound pressure meters and issuing tickets (read: REVENUE GENERATION) to save us from ourselves.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422674</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423918</id>
	<title>Noise-cancelling noise</title>
	<author>Jay L</author>
	<datestamp>1260732420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>require noise cancelling technologies</p></div></blockquote><p>Gah, I hope not. Noise-cancelling headphones make me feel like I'm in some pressure chamber. I've seen it mentioned by others, but I've never found out if it's because they really do increase absolute pressure when they play the cancelling waveform, or if it's just a psychoacoustic thing from comb-filtering.  Either way, it hurts, and things that hurt your ears tend to harm your ears.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>require noise cancelling technologiesGah , I hope not .
Noise-cancelling headphones make me feel like I 'm in some pressure chamber .
I 've seen it mentioned by others , but I 've never found out if it 's because they really do increase absolute pressure when they play the cancelling waveform , or if it 's just a psychoacoustic thing from comb-filtering .
Either way , it hurts , and things that hurt your ears tend to harm your ears .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>require noise cancelling technologiesGah, I hope not.
Noise-cancelling headphones make me feel like I'm in some pressure chamber.
I've seen it mentioned by others, but I've never found out if it's because they really do increase absolute pressure when they play the cancelling waveform, or if it's just a psychoacoustic thing from comb-filtering.
Either way, it hurts, and things that hurt your ears tend to harm your ears.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422390</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422448</id>
	<title>How about limits on boom cars?</title>
	<author>walterbyrd</author>
	<datestamp>1260718440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If a boom car is loud from three blocks away, imagine how loud it is in the car.</p><p>A few days ago, I observed one of these insanely loud boom cars with a 3 year child strapped into the back. Too bad for that kid's hearing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If a boom car is loud from three blocks away , imagine how loud it is in the car.A few days ago , I observed one of these insanely loud boom cars with a 3 year child strapped into the back .
Too bad for that kid 's hearing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If a boom car is loud from three blocks away, imagine how loud it is in the car.A few days ago, I observed one of these insanely loud boom cars with a 3 year child strapped into the back.
Too bad for that kid's hearing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30424166</id>
	<title>mp3 player / jet engine</title>
	<author>gTsiros</author>
	<datestamp>1260734880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>if anyone has come across a portable media player that can reach the volume of a jet engine, even for the duration of a short song</p><p>please name it</p><p>i'm still searching...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>if anyone has come across a portable media player that can reach the volume of a jet engine , even for the duration of a short songplease name iti 'm still searching.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if anyone has come across a portable media player that can reach the volume of a jet engine, even for the duration of a short songplease name iti'm still searching...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30426282</id>
	<title>Not a problem</title>
	<author>Trogre</author>
	<datestamp>1260708720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I trust my Ogg player will be exempt from this<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I trust my Ogg player will be exempt from this : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I trust my Ogg player will be exempt from this :)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422582</id>
	<title>Already like that in France</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260719820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>For the record, such a law already exists in France since<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... well years, maybe a decade; it limits audio output of portable audio players to 100 decibels and the ipod was withdraw from saled a few years ago because it could reach 130. Since then (~2003-2004) every ipod sold <b>in europe</b> has been limited to 100 decibels and everyone doesn't seem to have a problem with it.<br>
Now I know a lot of people dislike it when the governement thinks it knows what's best for us more than ourselves (and I usually agree), but before blaming them remember that 1 - 85/100 decibels is pretty loud given a decent set of plugs and 2 - this limit pretty much already exists, they're just trying to set an EU-wide law to uniform it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>For the record , such a law already exists in France since ... well years , maybe a decade ; it limits audio output of portable audio players to 100 decibels and the ipod was withdraw from saled a few years ago because it could reach 130 .
Since then ( ~ 2003-2004 ) every ipod sold in europe has been limited to 100 decibels and everyone does n't seem to have a problem with it .
Now I know a lot of people dislike it when the governement thinks it knows what 's best for us more than ourselves ( and I usually agree ) , but before blaming them remember that 1 - 85/100 decibels is pretty loud given a decent set of plugs and 2 - this limit pretty much already exists , they 're just trying to set an EU-wide law to uniform it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For the record, such a law already exists in France since ... well years, maybe a decade; it limits audio output of portable audio players to 100 decibels and the ipod was withdraw from saled a few years ago because it could reach 130.
Since then (~2003-2004) every ipod sold in europe has been limited to 100 decibels and everyone doesn't seem to have a problem with it.
Now I know a lot of people dislike it when the governement thinks it knows what's best for us more than ourselves (and I usually agree), but before blaming them remember that 1 - 85/100 decibels is pretty loud given a decent set of plugs and 2 - this limit pretty much already exists, they're just trying to set an EU-wide law to uniform it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422924</id>
	<title>Re:Wish they would regulate TV channels first.</title>
	<author>xaxa</author>
	<datestamp>1260722880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1498890/ITV-told-to-turn-down-the-volume-on-adverts.html" title="telegraph.co.uk">ITV told to turn down the volume on adverts</a> [telegraph.co.uk]</p><p>I usually hit "mute" as soon as the adverts start.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>ITV told to turn down the volume on adverts [ telegraph.co.uk ] I usually hit " mute " as soon as the adverts start .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ITV told to turn down the volume on adverts [telegraph.co.uk]I usually hit "mute" as soon as the adverts start.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422454</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422458</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong approach entirely</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260718560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sorry BadAnalogyGuy - you need to RTFA.  The issue here is not the ambient noise produced by the earphones, but the damage to the listener. (...trying to think of a bad analogy...). Imagine you're a car, and you want to put the wrong kind of gas in your tank... (never mind) <br> <br>


The EU govenment is trying to protect us from ourselves.  Hmmm....which makes me wonder why they don't try to impose any limits on rock concerts.  I'll bet they're over 85db, and it affects 10s of thousands of people at a time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry BadAnalogyGuy - you need to RTFA .
The issue here is not the ambient noise produced by the earphones , but the damage to the listener .
( ...trying to think of a bad analogy... ) .
Imagine you 're a car , and you want to put the wrong kind of gas in your tank... ( never mind ) The EU govenment is trying to protect us from ourselves .
Hmmm....which makes me wonder why they do n't try to impose any limits on rock concerts .
I 'll bet they 're over 85db , and it affects 10s of thousands of people at a time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry BadAnalogyGuy - you need to RTFA.
The issue here is not the ambient noise produced by the earphones, but the damage to the listener.
(...trying to think of a bad analogy...).
Imagine you're a car, and you want to put the wrong kind of gas in your tank... (never mind)  


The EU govenment is trying to protect us from ourselves.
Hmmm....which makes me wonder why they don't try to impose any limits on rock concerts.
I'll bet they're over 85db, and it affects 10s of thousands of people at a time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30424452</id>
	<title>Re:But how to do that?</title>
	<author>mpe</author>
	<datestamp>1260737160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>The small tiny ones that comes with the player normaly need less effect to reach 85db then if you get some nice big headphones with better sound.</i> <br> <br>Or are simply more comfortable to wear than having something stuffed right in your ear<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</htmltext>
<tokenext>The small tiny ones that comes with the player normaly need less effect to reach 85db then if you get some nice big headphones with better sound .
Or are simply more comfortable to wear than having something stuffed right in your ear : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The small tiny ones that comes with the player normaly need less effect to reach 85db then if you get some nice big headphones with better sound.
Or are simply more comfortable to wear than having something stuffed right in your ear :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422356</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30435014</id>
	<title>Re:What can't I f**king decide for myself?</title>
	<author>dcroxton</author>
	<datestamp>1260782580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree completely about MP3 players, but your anger is directed at the wrong side politically.

The stem cell debate is not about legality, it is about public funding.  And no one is trying to tell you what religion to have.

It is the left who wants to tell us what size toilets we can have, what kind of light bulbs we can use, and what kind of safety devices need to be on our cars.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree completely about MP3 players , but your anger is directed at the wrong side politically .
The stem cell debate is not about legality , it is about public funding .
And no one is trying to tell you what religion to have .
It is the left who wants to tell us what size toilets we can have , what kind of light bulbs we can use , and what kind of safety devices need to be on our cars .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree completely about MP3 players, but your anger is directed at the wrong side politically.
The stem cell debate is not about legality, it is about public funding.
And no one is trying to tell you what religion to have.
It is the left who wants to tell us what size toilets we can have, what kind of light bulbs we can use, and what kind of safety devices need to be on our cars.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30424058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423002</id>
	<title>stupid people</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260723780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>if people do stupid things to themselves its not our place to criticize or do anything about</htmltext>
<tokenext>if people do stupid things to themselves its not our place to criticize or do anything about</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if people do stupid things to themselves its not our place to criticize or do anything about</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422364</id>
	<title>Do what we say, not what we do</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260717540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hearing loss is bad if it is caused by MP3 players, but it's okay when it's caused by police using crowd control devices against innocent civilians.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hearing loss is bad if it is caused by MP3 players , but it 's okay when it 's caused by police using crowd control devices against innocent civilians .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hearing loss is bad if it is caused by MP3 players, but it's okay when it's caused by police using crowd control devices against innocent civilians.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423256</id>
	<title>Re:What next?</title>
	<author>TheCowSaysMooNotBoo</author>
	<datestamp>1260726360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As long as they don't touch my <a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1046149.ece" title="timesonline.co.uk" rel="nofollow">bananas</a> [timesonline.co.uk]. waait a minute!</htmltext>
<tokenext>As long as they do n't touch my bananas [ timesonline.co.uk ] .
waait a minute !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As long as they don't touch my bananas [timesonline.co.uk].
waait a minute!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30425702</id>
	<title>Noise limits</title>
	<author>Khyber</author>
	<datestamp>1260703440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sure, the player might be capable of going that high - are the headphones capable of handling that?</p><p>Most of my earbuds clip the fuck out around 75dB. My studio headphones, OTOH, can handle 120dB without a problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure , the player might be capable of going that high - are the headphones capable of handling that ? Most of my earbuds clip the fuck out around 75dB .
My studio headphones , OTOH , can handle 120dB without a problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure, the player might be capable of going that high - are the headphones capable of handling that?Most of my earbuds clip the fuck out around 75dB.
My studio headphones, OTOH, can handle 120dB without a problem.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30425796</id>
	<title>Don't music players already come with this?</title>
	<author>BillX</author>
	<datestamp>1260704400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Granted, I haven't felt need to buy a new personal music gadget in the last few years, but the last one I did buy - a Creative Nomad - had a builtin decibel limit feature, enabled at 85db out of the box (it can be adjusted or disabled if needed; see many previous comments for why this might be important). With music players doing everything but wipe your butt for you these days, don't most if not all these days come with this feature already? (Or is the nanny state's beef with the fact that the feature can be turned off?...)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Granted , I have n't felt need to buy a new personal music gadget in the last few years , but the last one I did buy - a Creative Nomad - had a builtin decibel limit feature , enabled at 85db out of the box ( it can be adjusted or disabled if needed ; see many previous comments for why this might be important ) .
With music players doing everything but wipe your butt for you these days , do n't most if not all these days come with this feature already ?
( Or is the nanny state 's beef with the fact that the feature can be turned off ? .. .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Granted, I haven't felt need to buy a new personal music gadget in the last few years, but the last one I did buy - a Creative Nomad - had a builtin decibel limit feature, enabled at 85db out of the box (it can be adjusted or disabled if needed; see many previous comments for why this might be important).
With music players doing everything but wipe your butt for you these days, don't most if not all these days come with this feature already?
(Or is the nanny state's beef with the fact that the feature can be turned off?...
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423602</id>
	<title>No change, please.</title>
	<author>mr\_lizard13</author>
	<datestamp>1260729660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>although manufacturers are obliged to print information about risks in the instruction manuals</p></div><p>
Then that will do.
<br>
<br>
Smoking is estimated to kill thousands of people, yet cigarette makers don't face restrictions on how many cigarettes they can put in the box, or how much tobacco goes into the product.  They get away with being able to put a warning sticker on the box.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>although manufacturers are obliged to print information about risks in the instruction manuals Then that will do .
Smoking is estimated to kill thousands of people , yet cigarette makers do n't face restrictions on how many cigarettes they can put in the box , or how much tobacco goes into the product .
They get away with being able to put a warning sticker on the box .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>although manufacturers are obliged to print information about risks in the instruction manuals
Then that will do.
Smoking is estimated to kill thousands of people, yet cigarette makers don't face restrictions on how many cigarettes they can put in the box, or how much tobacco goes into the product.
They get away with being able to put a warning sticker on the box.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423616</id>
	<title>Re:But how to do that?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260729780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Even if it worked exactly as advertised... 85 dB? My fire alarm generates about 60 dB and that fucking hurts. How about instead of some invisible limiter, simply force every earplug manufacturer to attach a little lcd display that shows the actual volume currently playing in dB? If you combine that with some proper documentation about what levels of sound are usually harmful, or annoying to bystanders, and an easy way for people to test their own hearing so they know if they have been excessing in the past that is probably a lot more useful.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Even if it worked exactly as advertised... 85 dB ?
My fire alarm generates about 60 dB and that fucking hurts .
How about instead of some invisible limiter , simply force every earplug manufacturer to attach a little lcd display that shows the actual volume currently playing in dB ?
If you combine that with some proper documentation about what levels of sound are usually harmful , or annoying to bystanders , and an easy way for people to test their own hearing so they know if they have been excessing in the past that is probably a lot more useful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even if it worked exactly as advertised... 85 dB?
My fire alarm generates about 60 dB and that fucking hurts.
How about instead of some invisible limiter, simply force every earplug manufacturer to attach a little lcd display that shows the actual volume currently playing in dB?
If you combine that with some proper documentation about what levels of sound are usually harmful, or annoying to bystanders, and an easy way for people to test their own hearing so they know if they have been excessing in the past that is probably a lot more useful.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422356</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422488</id>
	<title>MP3 players cannot control volume...</title>
	<author>Manip</author>
	<datestamp>1260718920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>MP3 players cannot control volume since they have no way of knowing how loud a headset/earphones will convert the output into. For example small earbud in-ear output extremely high volumes with very low powers, while "cup" headsets would output a much lower volume with the volume indicator set at the same point.</p><p>If MP3 players for example limit volume to 80\% you might wind up requiring batteries for several high end headsets that are currently on sale (even while the volume is extremely low).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>MP3 players can not control volume since they have no way of knowing how loud a headset/earphones will convert the output into .
For example small earbud in-ear output extremely high volumes with very low powers , while " cup " headsets would output a much lower volume with the volume indicator set at the same point.If MP3 players for example limit volume to 80 \ % you might wind up requiring batteries for several high end headsets that are currently on sale ( even while the volume is extremely low ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>MP3 players cannot control volume since they have no way of knowing how loud a headset/earphones will convert the output into.
For example small earbud in-ear output extremely high volumes with very low powers, while "cup" headsets would output a much lower volume with the volume indicator set at the same point.If MP3 players for example limit volume to 80\% you might wind up requiring batteries for several high end headsets that are currently on sale (even while the volume is extremely low).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30428682</id>
	<title>Re:What next?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260822660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There used to be a directive controlling the curviness of cucumbers. It basically only allowed straight cucumbers to be sold.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There used to be a directive controlling the curviness of cucumbers .
It basically only allowed straight cucumbers to be sold .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There used to be a directive controlling the curviness of cucumbers.
It basically only allowed straight cucumbers to be sold.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423344</id>
	<title>Re:The problem COULD be elsewhere..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260727140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>head phones don't need to be turned as loud to hear the whole sound. With speakers, unless they are positioned right you need to turn it up much more.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>head phones do n't need to be turned as loud to hear the whole sound .
With speakers , unless they are positioned right you need to turn it up much more .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>head phones don't need to be turned as loud to hear the whole sound.
With speakers, unless they are positioned right you need to turn it up much more.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422510</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422462</id>
	<title>What next?</title>
	<author>Vinegar Joe</author>
	<datestamp>1260718560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>EU regs on the maximum roughness of toilet paper?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>EU regs on the maximum roughness of toilet paper ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>EU regs on the maximum roughness of toilet paper?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422656</id>
	<title>What about other devices?</title>
	<author>AusIV</author>
	<datestamp>1260720660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I hardly ever use my iPod with headphones. Usually it's plugged into speakers or my car stereo. In those cases the signal quality seems to correlate to the volume set on the player, but the volume itself is set by the amplifier. Admittedly, kicking the volume up to the player's 100\% tends to distort the signal, but setting the player to a level that would be "safe" in headphones is short of the best signal.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I hardly ever use my iPod with headphones .
Usually it 's plugged into speakers or my car stereo .
In those cases the signal quality seems to correlate to the volume set on the player , but the volume itself is set by the amplifier .
Admittedly , kicking the volume up to the player 's 100 \ % tends to distort the signal , but setting the player to a level that would be " safe " in headphones is short of the best signal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hardly ever use my iPod with headphones.
Usually it's plugged into speakers or my car stereo.
In those cases the signal quality seems to correlate to the volume set on the player, but the volume itself is set by the amplifier.
Admittedly, kicking the volume up to the player's 100\% tends to distort the signal, but setting the player to a level that would be "safe" in headphones is short of the best signal.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422498</id>
	<title>traffic noise</title>
	<author>kanweg</author>
	<datestamp>1260719040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"... are often listened to while in traffic with the volume very high to drown out outside noise."</p><p>So, it would be nice if they imposed some regulations on traffic noise (and inside car noise) as well.</p><p>Bert</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" ... are often listened to while in traffic with the volume very high to drown out outside noise .
" So , it would be nice if they imposed some regulations on traffic noise ( and inside car noise ) as well.Bert</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"... are often listened to while in traffic with the volume very high to drown out outside noise.
"So, it would be nice if they imposed some regulations on traffic noise (and inside car noise) as well.Bert</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422714</id>
	<title>Re:What about the headphones</title>
	<author>Sirusjr</author>
	<datestamp>1260721200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Or you could always buy a headphone amp to increase the output volume from the device when it is not enough to give you a decent volume out of your headphones.  Are they going to ban headphone amps as well?  I used to use one when my earlier player didn't have enough juice to power my Sennheiser EH350s but thankfully the Zune has a more powerful output that is sufficient.  Still if my player was too quiet I would just boost the volume with an amp and go back to my usual volume.  Of course I don't play my music at crazy loud levels.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Or you could always buy a headphone amp to increase the output volume from the device when it is not enough to give you a decent volume out of your headphones .
Are they going to ban headphone amps as well ?
I used to use one when my earlier player did n't have enough juice to power my Sennheiser EH350s but thankfully the Zune has a more powerful output that is sufficient .
Still if my player was too quiet I would just boost the volume with an amp and go back to my usual volume .
Of course I do n't play my music at crazy loud levels .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or you could always buy a headphone amp to increase the output volume from the device when it is not enough to give you a decent volume out of your headphones.
Are they going to ban headphone amps as well?
I used to use one when my earlier player didn't have enough juice to power my Sennheiser EH350s but thankfully the Zune has a more powerful output that is sufficient.
Still if my player was too quiet I would just boost the volume with an amp and go back to my usual volume.
Of course I don't play my music at crazy loud levels.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422438</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30424066</id>
	<title>Re:volume control</title>
	<author>u38cg</author>
	<datestamp>1260733860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm sure Steve Jobs is on the case.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm sure Steve Jobs is on the case .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm sure Steve Jobs is on the case.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422876</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30437300</id>
	<title>Re:But how to do that?</title>
	<author>yurtinus</author>
	<datestamp>1260794220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not exactly a technical response, but it is exactly why this won't work. Different speakers have different sensitivities-- x watts electrical energy input to result in x sound pressure output. I'm sure there are audio guys on here who can fill in the details that I'm missing (which I know are many!).
<br> <br>
Yet more nanny state legislation that will be be largely unenforceable and easily bypassed. People have known for a long time that loud noise damages ears, we simply don't care.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not exactly a technical response , but it is exactly why this wo n't work .
Different speakers have different sensitivities-- x watts electrical energy input to result in x sound pressure output .
I 'm sure there are audio guys on here who can fill in the details that I 'm missing ( which I know are many ! ) .
Yet more nanny state legislation that will be be largely unenforceable and easily bypassed .
People have known for a long time that loud noise damages ears , we simply do n't care .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not exactly a technical response, but it is exactly why this won't work.
Different speakers have different sensitivities-- x watts electrical energy input to result in x sound pressure output.
I'm sure there are audio guys on here who can fill in the details that I'm missing (which I know are many!).
Yet more nanny state legislation that will be be largely unenforceable and easily bypassed.
People have known for a long time that loud noise damages ears, we simply don't care.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422356</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422564</id>
	<title>Re:Forget disabled users...</title>
	<author>TropicalCoder</author>
	<datestamp>1260719640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't use an iPod when I am out and about. I like to maintain my full awareness of my surroundings. There is only one situation in which I use a portable music player, and that is for a visit to the dentist to get a filling or a root canal. In that case, I want a noise cancelling headset pumping hard rock at 120 dBs to drown out the sound of the drill. The rest of the time, my portable music player sits forgotten in the bottom of my desk drawer.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't use an iPod when I am out and about .
I like to maintain my full awareness of my surroundings .
There is only one situation in which I use a portable music player , and that is for a visit to the dentist to get a filling or a root canal .
In that case , I want a noise cancelling headset pumping hard rock at 120 dBs to drown out the sound of the drill .
The rest of the time , my portable music player sits forgotten in the bottom of my desk drawer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't use an iPod when I am out and about.
I like to maintain my full awareness of my surroundings.
There is only one situation in which I use a portable music player, and that is for a visit to the dentist to get a filling or a root canal.
In that case, I want a noise cancelling headset pumping hard rock at 120 dBs to drown out the sound of the drill.
The rest of the time, my portable music player sits forgotten in the bottom of my desk drawer.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30430508</id>
	<title>My personal experience...</title>
	<author>Dorkmaster Flek</author>
	<datestamp>1260803700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My personal experience is that people turn up their headphones loud because they have shitty headphones and you need to turn it up loud in order to hear everything in the music and drown out the background noise.  This was always the case when I was a kid, and my parents would be able to hear the sound leaking out and tell me to turn it down, and actually went so far as to put the headphones on themselves to check the volume level.  (Because, you know, they actually cared about what I was doing to myself.  That seems to be a lost art these days...)  Years later, I discovered the solution: <i>buy a decent pair of headphones!</i>  After spending $100 on a nice pair of earbuds that actually block out the background noise really well (to the point where my wife doesn't want me to wear them if I'm playing my DS at home and she wants to call me for help occasionally), I'm surprised if I have to ever hit half the maximum volume on my MP3 player/DS because the music/game is mixed so quietly.  The majority of the time, I'm at more like 1/3 the max volume.  This also has the nice side effect of increasing the quality of the sound itself, because you can hear all the nuances of your music without having to turn it up so loud that it's practically distorted because of the surrounding noise, even on the subway going to and from work.  You might scoff at spending $100 on a pair of earbuds when you can get them for under $20, but your ears will thank you later.  One of the best investments I've ever made, by far.  Just make sure you take proper care of them.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</htmltext>
<tokenext>My personal experience is that people turn up their headphones loud because they have shitty headphones and you need to turn it up loud in order to hear everything in the music and drown out the background noise .
This was always the case when I was a kid , and my parents would be able to hear the sound leaking out and tell me to turn it down , and actually went so far as to put the headphones on themselves to check the volume level .
( Because , you know , they actually cared about what I was doing to myself .
That seems to be a lost art these days... ) Years later , I discovered the solution : buy a decent pair of headphones !
After spending $ 100 on a nice pair of earbuds that actually block out the background noise really well ( to the point where my wife does n't want me to wear them if I 'm playing my DS at home and she wants to call me for help occasionally ) , I 'm surprised if I have to ever hit half the maximum volume on my MP3 player/DS because the music/game is mixed so quietly .
The majority of the time , I 'm at more like 1/3 the max volume .
This also has the nice side effect of increasing the quality of the sound itself , because you can hear all the nuances of your music without having to turn it up so loud that it 's practically distorted because of the surrounding noise , even on the subway going to and from work .
You might scoff at spending $ 100 on a pair of earbuds when you can get them for under $ 20 , but your ears will thank you later .
One of the best investments I 've ever made , by far .
Just make sure you take proper care of them .
: P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My personal experience is that people turn up their headphones loud because they have shitty headphones and you need to turn it up loud in order to hear everything in the music and drown out the background noise.
This was always the case when I was a kid, and my parents would be able to hear the sound leaking out and tell me to turn it down, and actually went so far as to put the headphones on themselves to check the volume level.
(Because, you know, they actually cared about what I was doing to myself.
That seems to be a lost art these days...)  Years later, I discovered the solution: buy a decent pair of headphones!
After spending $100 on a nice pair of earbuds that actually block out the background noise really well (to the point where my wife doesn't want me to wear them if I'm playing my DS at home and she wants to call me for help occasionally), I'm surprised if I have to ever hit half the maximum volume on my MP3 player/DS because the music/game is mixed so quietly.
The majority of the time, I'm at more like 1/3 the max volume.
This also has the nice side effect of increasing the quality of the sound itself, because you can hear all the nuances of your music without having to turn it up so loud that it's practically distorted because of the surrounding noise, even on the subway going to and from work.
You might scoff at spending $100 on a pair of earbuds when you can get them for under $20, but your ears will thank you later.
One of the best investments I've ever made, by far.
Just make sure you take proper care of them.
:P</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30426948</id>
	<title>Re:Do what we say, not what we do</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1260714780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Hearing loss is bad if it is caused by MP3 players, but it's okay when it's caused by police using crowd control devices against innocent civilians.</i> </p><p>It is better than being shot or bludgeoned.</p><p>The mob <b>must</b> be broken and dispersed before it becomes a greater danger to itself or others.</p><p>The geek knows that as well as anyone.</p><p> He also knows that the exposure of any single individual to the sirens is likely to be a once-in-a-lifetime experience.</p><p> While the adolescent will be routinely exposed to the mp3 player for several hours daily.</p><p> It is not the same problem and to pretend otherwise is fraudulent.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hearing loss is bad if it is caused by MP3 players , but it 's okay when it 's caused by police using crowd control devices against innocent civilians .
It is better than being shot or bludgeoned.The mob must be broken and dispersed before it becomes a greater danger to itself or others.The geek knows that as well as anyone .
He also knows that the exposure of any single individual to the sirens is likely to be a once-in-a-lifetime experience .
While the adolescent will be routinely exposed to the mp3 player for several hours daily .
It is not the same problem and to pretend otherwise is fraudulent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hearing loss is bad if it is caused by MP3 players, but it's okay when it's caused by police using crowd control devices against innocent civilians.
It is better than being shot or bludgeoned.The mob must be broken and dispersed before it becomes a greater danger to itself or others.The geek knows that as well as anyone.
He also knows that the exposure of any single individual to the sirens is likely to be a once-in-a-lifetime experience.
While the adolescent will be routinely exposed to the mp3 player for several hours daily.
It is not the same problem and to pretend otherwise is fraudulent.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422364</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423454</id>
	<title>Re:The problem COULD be elsewhere..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260728280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I'm in my 40's now, and I've been listening to MP3 players (including the first Walkmans/MiniDisc Players) since the beginning of my childhood, more than others...because I wasn't allowed to play loud music, and I found a great personal "peace" in listening to these - as loud as I wanted - wherever I wanted, any time.</p><p>This never damaged my hearing in any way, I've had my hearing checked regularly, and guess what - despite always using headphones - yes - even today...to avoid problems with my neighbors - I still hear like a 20 year old. Responsive at 18 khz or better, while my peers - can't even detect a 15 khz tone, and they always play loud music on their speakers...which I don't even have.</p><p>Go figure...</p></div><p>Maybe you're just lucky.</p><p>I'm in my early forties.  From childhood I listened to loud music, and from my teens up I used fireworks, power tools, was exposed to poorly muffled engines, and shot large caliber firearms without hearing protection much of the time.</p><p>I suffer from tinnitus in the left and right ears, have for the past 20ish years.  That's a persistent ringing in the ears.  Right ear is considerably worse than left.</p><p>It can be quite annoying.  During the day it isn't so bad, but at night when I'm trying to sleep it can be horrible.  In the quiet it sounds extremely loud and is near impossible to ignore.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm in my 40 's now , and I 've been listening to MP3 players ( including the first Walkmans/MiniDisc Players ) since the beginning of my childhood , more than others...because I was n't allowed to play loud music , and I found a great personal " peace " in listening to these - as loud as I wanted - wherever I wanted , any time.This never damaged my hearing in any way , I 've had my hearing checked regularly , and guess what - despite always using headphones - yes - even today...to avoid problems with my neighbors - I still hear like a 20 year old .
Responsive at 18 khz or better , while my peers - ca n't even detect a 15 khz tone , and they always play loud music on their speakers...which I do n't even have.Go figure...Maybe you 're just lucky.I 'm in my early forties .
From childhood I listened to loud music , and from my teens up I used fireworks , power tools , was exposed to poorly muffled engines , and shot large caliber firearms without hearing protection much of the time.I suffer from tinnitus in the left and right ears , have for the past 20ish years .
That 's a persistent ringing in the ears .
Right ear is considerably worse than left.It can be quite annoying .
During the day it is n't so bad , but at night when I 'm trying to sleep it can be horrible .
In the quiet it sounds extremely loud and is near impossible to ignore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm in my 40's now, and I've been listening to MP3 players (including the first Walkmans/MiniDisc Players) since the beginning of my childhood, more than others...because I wasn't allowed to play loud music, and I found a great personal "peace" in listening to these - as loud as I wanted - wherever I wanted, any time.This never damaged my hearing in any way, I've had my hearing checked regularly, and guess what - despite always using headphones - yes - even today...to avoid problems with my neighbors - I still hear like a 20 year old.
Responsive at 18 khz or better, while my peers - can't even detect a 15 khz tone, and they always play loud music on their speakers...which I don't even have.Go figure...Maybe you're just lucky.I'm in my early forties.
From childhood I listened to loud music, and from my teens up I used fireworks, power tools, was exposed to poorly muffled engines, and shot large caliber firearms without hearing protection much of the time.I suffer from tinnitus in the left and right ears, have for the past 20ish years.
That's a persistent ringing in the ears.
Right ear is considerably worse than left.It can be quite annoying.
During the day it isn't so bad, but at night when I'm trying to sleep it can be horrible.
In the quiet it sounds extremely loud and is near impossible to ignore.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422510</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30426150</id>
	<title>Re:I travel on the Tube to work</title>
	<author>orzetto</author>
	<datestamp>1260707460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think they do. <a href="http://europa.eu/legislation\_summaries/environment/noise\_pollution/index\_en.htm" title="europa.eu">60 dB is the level that should be kept</a> [europa.eu]. There is a <a href="http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=COM:2008:0432:FIN:EN:HTML" title="europa.eu">directive on rail traffic</a> [europa.eu] and a <a href="http://ec.europa.eu/research/transport/news/article\_4295\_en.html" title="europa.eu">research initiative on noise reduction</a> [europa.eu].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think they do .
60 dB is the level that should be kept [ europa.eu ] .
There is a directive on rail traffic [ europa.eu ] and a research initiative on noise reduction [ europa.eu ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think they do.
60 dB is the level that should be kept [europa.eu].
There is a directive on rail traffic [europa.eu] and a research initiative on noise reduction [europa.eu].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422538</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422504</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong approach entirely</title>
	<author>Farmer Tim</author>
	<datestamp>1260719160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Second, if a person's earbuds are so loud that the sound is invading someone else's personal space, the brief tone should be enough to put their eardrums out permanently.</i></p><p>Bad idea: they'll just push the volume higher to compensate.</p><p>A better idea would be to fit MP3 players with HT circuitry with the earbuds as terminals. Pavlovian behavioural training and electroshock therapy in one!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Second , if a person 's earbuds are so loud that the sound is invading someone else 's personal space , the brief tone should be enough to put their eardrums out permanently.Bad idea : they 'll just push the volume higher to compensate.A better idea would be to fit MP3 players with HT circuitry with the earbuds as terminals .
Pavlovian behavioural training and electroshock therapy in one !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Second, if a person's earbuds are so loud that the sound is invading someone else's personal space, the brief tone should be enough to put their eardrums out permanently.Bad idea: they'll just push the volume higher to compensate.A better idea would be to fit MP3 players with HT circuitry with the earbuds as terminals.
Pavlovian behavioural training and electroshock therapy in one!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422748</id>
	<title>Re:And how will this work?</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1260721380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Then it will become illegal to sell headphones outside of a specific efficiency range. Yay.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:/</p><p>But hey, the point of this was not to limit the volume. The point was for someone to gain power or money. Find the one and you have found the answers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Then it will become illegal to sell headphones outside of a specific efficiency range .
Yay. : /But hey , the point of this was not to limit the volume .
The point was for someone to gain power or money .
Find the one and you have found the answers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Then it will become illegal to sell headphones outside of a specific efficiency range.
Yay. :/But hey, the point of this was not to limit the volume.
The point was for someone to gain power or money.
Find the one and you have found the answers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422608</id>
	<title>How?</title>
	<author>nameer</author>
	<datestamp>1260720060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The number of decibels reaching the ear depends on a number of factors. The RMS voltage of the signal, the efficiency of the drivers, the style of the headphones, etc. Is the EU planning to limit the amplifier to a particular gain? If so, will my pre-loudness war recordings suffer as I won't be able to apply enough gain to get them up to even 70 dB? Won't this incentivise the recording studios to make the loudness war even worse (it sounds "good" at maximum gain!) Or will they monitor the RMS voltage after the amplifier, and limit it to some value? In that case, consumers will likely choose low impedance, high sensitivity headphones to get higher volumes. <p>

My point is that simply legislating MP3 players to produce no more than 85 dB is a rather odd request, as the MP3 player can't know what dB it's producing. I see what they are trying to accomplish, but I think it is futile and will probably result in worse players. I guess as long as they restrict it to the headphone amp and leave the line-out alone, one can always build/buy their own amplifier. </p><p>

Oh, and I love the analogy of 120 dB = jet taking off. From how far away? I'm constantly within ear shot of jets taking off, and I would put it at 60 dB. Of course, that is probably on the order of 1 mile away. I would guess if you were standing on the runway directly below the jet as it was taking off it could even exceed 120 dB.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The number of decibels reaching the ear depends on a number of factors .
The RMS voltage of the signal , the efficiency of the drivers , the style of the headphones , etc .
Is the EU planning to limit the amplifier to a particular gain ?
If so , will my pre-loudness war recordings suffer as I wo n't be able to apply enough gain to get them up to even 70 dB ?
Wo n't this incentivise the recording studios to make the loudness war even worse ( it sounds " good " at maximum gain !
) Or will they monitor the RMS voltage after the amplifier , and limit it to some value ?
In that case , consumers will likely choose low impedance , high sensitivity headphones to get higher volumes .
My point is that simply legislating MP3 players to produce no more than 85 dB is a rather odd request , as the MP3 player ca n't know what dB it 's producing .
I see what they are trying to accomplish , but I think it is futile and will probably result in worse players .
I guess as long as they restrict it to the headphone amp and leave the line-out alone , one can always build/buy their own amplifier .
Oh , and I love the analogy of 120 dB = jet taking off .
From how far away ?
I 'm constantly within ear shot of jets taking off , and I would put it at 60 dB .
Of course , that is probably on the order of 1 mile away .
I would guess if you were standing on the runway directly below the jet as it was taking off it could even exceed 120 dB .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The number of decibels reaching the ear depends on a number of factors.
The RMS voltage of the signal, the efficiency of the drivers, the style of the headphones, etc.
Is the EU planning to limit the amplifier to a particular gain?
If so, will my pre-loudness war recordings suffer as I won't be able to apply enough gain to get them up to even 70 dB?
Won't this incentivise the recording studios to make the loudness war even worse (it sounds "good" at maximum gain!
) Or will they monitor the RMS voltage after the amplifier, and limit it to some value?
In that case, consumers will likely choose low impedance, high sensitivity headphones to get higher volumes.
My point is that simply legislating MP3 players to produce no more than 85 dB is a rather odd request, as the MP3 player can't know what dB it's producing.
I see what they are trying to accomplish, but I think it is futile and will probably result in worse players.
I guess as long as they restrict it to the headphone amp and leave the line-out alone, one can always build/buy their own amplifier.
Oh, and I love the analogy of 120 dB = jet taking off.
From how far away?
I'm constantly within ear shot of jets taking off, and I would put it at 60 dB.
Of course, that is probably on the order of 1 mile away.
I would guess if you were standing on the runway directly below the jet as it was taking off it could even exceed 120 dB.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422674</id>
	<title>Nanny state</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260720840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Since when is a government in charge of proper parenting? Have we now delegated "common sense" to bureaucrats?</p><p>I certainly remember my parents warning me of the dangers of listening to loud music. I have warned my children. Because children rarely listen, I often have to reinforce this warning, and even take their iPods away when I catch them. This is called parenting. It's not 100\% successful. My children are not drilled soldiers and so they don't always listen to me. That's normal. I didn't always listen to my parents, either. However it's my job to keep trying.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The possibilities for one human to harm himself or others are limitless. Are we going to have to legislate each one? Every single law a government makes takes away something from the people. Yes it's stupid to deafen yourself by listening to loud music. However PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO BE STUPID. Laws normally help prevent or settle dispute between citizens. It's not right that you play your music on your stereo at full volume in your crowded downtown neighborhood at 3am. Not everyone out of your 400 neighbors is in a partying mood. It's not right that you drive drunk and plow your car into another because of your intoxication. It's not right that everyone in the airplane has to put up with your stench if you haven't quit smoking yet. However who is harmed, apart from yourself, if you wear headphones and crank up the volume?</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The real danger here, I believe, is that sort of legislation that is trying to accomplish one thing - perhaps some legislator is tired of listening to the tinny sounds of people's MP3 players cranked at full volume in public - under the guise of something else - "oh we're doing it to save people from themselves".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Since when is a government in charge of proper parenting ?
Have we now delegated " common sense " to bureaucrats ? I certainly remember my parents warning me of the dangers of listening to loud music .
I have warned my children .
Because children rarely listen , I often have to reinforce this warning , and even take their iPods away when I catch them .
This is called parenting .
It 's not 100 \ % successful .
My children are not drilled soldiers and so they do n't always listen to me .
That 's normal .
I did n't always listen to my parents , either .
However it 's my job to keep trying .
      The possibilities for one human to harm himself or others are limitless .
Are we going to have to legislate each one ?
Every single law a government makes takes away something from the people .
Yes it 's stupid to deafen yourself by listening to loud music .
However PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO BE STUPID .
Laws normally help prevent or settle dispute between citizens .
It 's not right that you play your music on your stereo at full volume in your crowded downtown neighborhood at 3am .
Not everyone out of your 400 neighbors is in a partying mood .
It 's not right that you drive drunk and plow your car into another because of your intoxication .
It 's not right that everyone in the airplane has to put up with your stench if you have n't quit smoking yet .
However who is harmed , apart from yourself , if you wear headphones and crank up the volume ?
      The real danger here , I believe , is that sort of legislation that is trying to accomplish one thing - perhaps some legislator is tired of listening to the tinny sounds of people 's MP3 players cranked at full volume in public - under the guise of something else - " oh we 're doing it to save people from themselves " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since when is a government in charge of proper parenting?
Have we now delegated "common sense" to bureaucrats?I certainly remember my parents warning me of the dangers of listening to loud music.
I have warned my children.
Because children rarely listen, I often have to reinforce this warning, and even take their iPods away when I catch them.
This is called parenting.
It's not 100\% successful.
My children are not drilled soldiers and so they don't always listen to me.
That's normal.
I didn't always listen to my parents, either.
However it's my job to keep trying.
      The possibilities for one human to harm himself or others are limitless.
Are we going to have to legislate each one?
Every single law a government makes takes away something from the people.
Yes it's stupid to deafen yourself by listening to loud music.
However PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO BE STUPID.
Laws normally help prevent or settle dispute between citizens.
It's not right that you play your music on your stereo at full volume in your crowded downtown neighborhood at 3am.
Not everyone out of your 400 neighbors is in a partying mood.
It's not right that you drive drunk and plow your car into another because of your intoxication.
It's not right that everyone in the airplane has to put up with your stench if you haven't quit smoking yet.
However who is harmed, apart from yourself, if you wear headphones and crank up the volume?
      The real danger here, I believe, is that sort of legislation that is trying to accomplish one thing - perhaps some legislator is tired of listening to the tinny sounds of people's MP3 players cranked at full volume in public - under the guise of something else - "oh we're doing it to save people from themselves".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422848</id>
	<title>Re:say what?</title>
	<author>GIL\_Dude</author>
	<datestamp>1260722340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You are right of course. But the simple answer is that the test is done with a reference set of headphones. If it produces 85db or less with the reference set, it is fine.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You are right of course .
But the simple answer is that the test is done with a reference set of headphones .
If it produces 85db or less with the reference set , it is fine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are right of course.
But the simple answer is that the test is done with a reference set of headphones.
If it produces 85db or less with the reference set, it is fine.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422360</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30426180</id>
	<title>If</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260707640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If we outlaw the loud mp3 players, only outlaws will have loud mp3 players.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If we outlaw the loud mp3 players , only outlaws will have loud mp3 players .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If we outlaw the loud mp3 players, only outlaws will have loud mp3 players.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422618</id>
	<title>This has worked for year</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260720240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Remember the walkman ? They were also limited. just make sure you limit every parameter so that even the worst case come as 85 dB of noise, and you are OK.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Remember the walkman ?
They were also limited .
just make sure you limit every parameter so that even the worst case come as 85 dB of noise , and you are OK .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Remember the walkman ?
They were also limited.
just make sure you limit every parameter so that even the worst case come as 85 dB of noise, and you are OK.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30428640</id>
	<title>Re:But how to do that?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260822000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In incremental doses our body adapts to loud sounds.</p></div><p>Hearing adapts to loud sounds only by destroying itself, so really, it doesn't adapt.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In incremental doses our body adapts to loud sounds.Hearing adapts to loud sounds only by destroying itself , so really , it does n't adapt .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In incremental doses our body adapts to loud sounds.Hearing adapts to loud sounds only by destroying itself, so really, it doesn't adapt.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423534</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423302</id>
	<title>Re:Forget disabled users...</title>
	<author>mrmeval</author>
	<datestamp>1260726780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So you wish to listen to your music louder than legally allowed?</p><p>1) Have form X32184-11y filled out by your authorized health care provider under penalty of perjury or death.<br>2) Fill out form X32184-12x under penalty of perjury or death that you are handicapped under EU law<br>3) Have three money orders or certified cheques, one filled out to the Auditory Regulatory Commission for 50EU, one filled out to the Office of Handicapped Waivers for 25 EU, one to the Wavier Administration Office for 100EU and send copies of the forms with and money order or cheque to each separate agency.<br>4) Wait patiently and if approved your license to listen to music louder than legally approved will arrive in six to eight months. Should you be denied the fees are not refundable but you may submit an appeal on form X32185-ou812 with a money order or cheque to Appeals Division for EU200.</p><p>Thank you for your love and understanding.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So you wish to listen to your music louder than legally allowed ? 1 ) Have form X32184-11y filled out by your authorized health care provider under penalty of perjury or death.2 ) Fill out form X32184-12x under penalty of perjury or death that you are handicapped under EU law3 ) Have three money orders or certified cheques , one filled out to the Auditory Regulatory Commission for 50EU , one filled out to the Office of Handicapped Waivers for 25 EU , one to the Wavier Administration Office for 100EU and send copies of the forms with and money order or cheque to each separate agency.4 ) Wait patiently and if approved your license to listen to music louder than legally approved will arrive in six to eight months .
Should you be denied the fees are not refundable but you may submit an appeal on form X32185-ou812 with a money order or cheque to Appeals Division for EU200.Thank you for your love and understanding .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So you wish to listen to your music louder than legally allowed?1) Have form X32184-11y filled out by your authorized health care provider under penalty of perjury or death.2) Fill out form X32184-12x under penalty of perjury or death that you are handicapped under EU law3) Have three money orders or certified cheques, one filled out to the Auditory Regulatory Commission for 50EU, one filled out to the Office of Handicapped Waivers for 25 EU, one to the Wavier Administration Office for 100EU and send copies of the forms with and money order or cheque to each separate agency.4) Wait patiently and if approved your license to listen to music louder than legally approved will arrive in six to eight months.
Should you be denied the fees are not refundable but you may submit an appeal on form X32185-ou812 with a money order or cheque to Appeals Division for EU200.Thank you for your love and understanding.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30427514</id>
	<title>and yet the police are using 139 db?</title>
	<author>1800maxim</author>
	<datestamp>1260720300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And yet the police can use a sound wave amplifier that generates 139 db (IIRC) to disperse demonstrators? Why isn't that legislated?</htmltext>
<tokenext>And yet the police can use a sound wave amplifier that generates 139 db ( IIRC ) to disperse demonstrators ?
Why is n't that legislated ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And yet the police can use a sound wave amplifier that generates 139 db (IIRC) to disperse demonstrators?
Why isn't that legislated?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30428438</id>
	<title>Re:But how to do that?</title>
	<author>Meski</author>
	<datestamp>1260731820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yeah, my oven does that, I just don't see the need for timed cooking, and the clock isn't in a position that I can refer to it easily.  So it can damned well blink</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , my oven does that , I just do n't see the need for timed cooking , and the clock is n't in a position that I can refer to it easily .
So it can damned well blink</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, my oven does that, I just don't see the need for timed cooking, and the clock isn't in a position that I can refer to it easily.
So it can damned well blink</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422614</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422444</id>
	<title>Forget disabled users...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260718440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have very bad hearing, have done since I was a kid (even had surgery to correct it). I listen to music roughly 10-15\% louder than most of my peers. In a noisy room louder still. If they limit volume on my MP3 player will I have to hack it in order to listen to it at a reasonable volume for me?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have very bad hearing , have done since I was a kid ( even had surgery to correct it ) .
I listen to music roughly 10-15 \ % louder than most of my peers .
In a noisy room louder still .
If they limit volume on my MP3 player will I have to hack it in order to listen to it at a reasonable volume for me ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have very bad hearing, have done since I was a kid (even had surgery to correct it).
I listen to music roughly 10-15\% louder than most of my peers.
In a noisy room louder still.
If they limit volume on my MP3 player will I have to hack it in order to listen to it at a reasonable volume for me?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423980</id>
	<title>Cancel, don't overload</title>
	<author>Animats</author>
	<datestamp>1260733080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
The way out of this is noise cancellation.  That's available, and not all that expensive, but not standard.  If players were required to have hardware support for noise-canceling earbuds, then the temptation to raise the output level would decline.  You can get <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Technica-Ath-Anc3Bk-Active-Noise-Canceling-Headphones/dp/B0015BYKGI/ref=pd\_cp\_e\_0" title="amazon.com">noise-canceling earbuds</a> [amazon.com] now, but they need an external unit with another battery and electronics to do the noise cancellation.  If the cancellation electronics is moved to the player, where it should be, the overall cost will decline.  Also, you get rid of the need for a second battery.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The way out of this is noise cancellation .
That 's available , and not all that expensive , but not standard .
If players were required to have hardware support for noise-canceling earbuds , then the temptation to raise the output level would decline .
You can get noise-canceling earbuds [ amazon.com ] now , but they need an external unit with another battery and electronics to do the noise cancellation .
If the cancellation electronics is moved to the player , where it should be , the overall cost will decline .
Also , you get rid of the need for a second battery .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
The way out of this is noise cancellation.
That's available, and not all that expensive, but not standard.
If players were required to have hardware support for noise-canceling earbuds, then the temptation to raise the output level would decline.
You can get noise-canceling earbuds [amazon.com] now, but they need an external unit with another battery and electronics to do the noise cancellation.
If the cancellation electronics is moved to the player, where it should be, the overall cost will decline.
Also, you get rid of the need for a second battery.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422592</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong approach entirely</title>
	<author>Yvan256</author>
	<datestamp>1260719880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The issue here is not the ambient noise produced by the earphones, but the damage to the listener.</p></div></blockquote><p>You're not making any sense!</p><blockquote><div><p>Imagine you're a car, and you want to put the wrong kind of gas in your tank.</p></div></blockquote><p>That's a much better explanation, thanks!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The issue here is not the ambient noise produced by the earphones , but the damage to the listener.You 're not making any sense ! Imagine you 're a car , and you want to put the wrong kind of gas in your tank.That 's a much better explanation , thanks !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The issue here is not the ambient noise produced by the earphones, but the damage to the listener.You're not making any sense!Imagine you're a car, and you want to put the wrong kind of gas in your tank.That's a much better explanation, thanks!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422458</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422454</id>
	<title>Wish they would regulate TV channels first.</title>
	<author>rolfwind</author>
	<datestamp>1260718500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My music usually doesn't surprise me with sudden shifts of maximum volume.  But every time a program switches to commercial on TV, the max volume is a shit load louder and with more commercials than ever before that means fiddling with the remote every other minute.  It wasn't always this way and is way annoying.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My music usually does n't surprise me with sudden shifts of maximum volume .
But every time a program switches to commercial on TV , the max volume is a shit load louder and with more commercials than ever before that means fiddling with the remote every other minute .
It was n't always this way and is way annoying .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My music usually doesn't surprise me with sudden shifts of maximum volume.
But every time a program switches to commercial on TV, the max volume is a shit load louder and with more commercials than ever before that means fiddling with the remote every other minute.
It wasn't always this way and is way annoying.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30424196</id>
	<title>Re:What about the headphones</title>
	<author>canajin56</author>
	<datestamp>1260735120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yeah, if you're ever on Air Canada (God have mercy on you), and you use their complementary headphones (that they now charge you for), you'll notice that even at 100\% volume, you can barely hear the movie over the engine noise.  However, I brought my non-noise canceling, $40 Koss headphones, and I had to turn it down to 10\% (the min)!  Mind you, those airline headphones are amazingly poor.  I tried using them in an MP3 player on the ground, no background noise, couldn't hear anything at any volume...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , if you 're ever on Air Canada ( God have mercy on you ) , and you use their complementary headphones ( that they now charge you for ) , you 'll notice that even at 100 \ % volume , you can barely hear the movie over the engine noise .
However , I brought my non-noise canceling , $ 40 Koss headphones , and I had to turn it down to 10 \ % ( the min ) !
Mind you , those airline headphones are amazingly poor .
I tried using them in an MP3 player on the ground , no background noise , could n't hear anything at any volume.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, if you're ever on Air Canada (God have mercy on you), and you use their complementary headphones (that they now charge you for), you'll notice that even at 100\% volume, you can barely hear the movie over the engine noise.
However, I brought my non-noise canceling, $40 Koss headphones, and I had to turn it down to 10\% (the min)!
Mind you, those airline headphones are amazingly poor.
I tried using them in an MP3 player on the ground, no background noise, couldn't hear anything at any volume...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422438</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422360</id>
	<title>say what?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260717480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I take it the EU "experts" have never heard of driver sensitivity, I'm not really seeing how this is going to work considering I could just go out and buy some half decent in ear headphones which blow the stock ones out the water.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I take it the EU " experts " have never heard of driver sensitivity , I 'm not really seeing how this is going to work considering I could just go out and buy some half decent in ear headphones which blow the stock ones out the water .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I take it the EU "experts" have never heard of driver sensitivity, I'm not really seeing how this is going to work considering I could just go out and buy some half decent in ear headphones which blow the stock ones out the water.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30427302</id>
	<title>Re:What can't I f**king decide for myself?</title>
	<author>n0m</author>
	<datestamp>1260717900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I completely agree with your need to be free of government intervention.  If you choose to willfully and against all advice destroy your hearing then you should be allowed to do so.<br> <br>
Now, can you please agree to prevent your interventionist government from taking my income to provide you with medical aid to repair this damage?  Because I fail to see why I should be taxed to provide medical care to morons?<br> <br>
Why is it that everyone is against government intervention except when that intervention is on their behalf?<br> <br>
Oh yeah, I'm also fed up with hearing the garbage sounds leaking out of your headphones on public transport. Yes, I'm old and I'm grumpy so get off my lawn.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I completely agree with your need to be free of government intervention .
If you choose to willfully and against all advice destroy your hearing then you should be allowed to do so .
Now , can you please agree to prevent your interventionist government from taking my income to provide you with medical aid to repair this damage ?
Because I fail to see why I should be taxed to provide medical care to morons ?
Why is it that everyone is against government intervention except when that intervention is on their behalf ?
Oh yeah , I 'm also fed up with hearing the garbage sounds leaking out of your headphones on public transport .
Yes , I 'm old and I 'm grumpy so get off my lawn .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I completely agree with your need to be free of government intervention.
If you choose to willfully and against all advice destroy your hearing then you should be allowed to do so.
Now, can you please agree to prevent your interventionist government from taking my income to provide you with medical aid to repair this damage?
Because I fail to see why I should be taxed to provide medical care to morons?
Why is it that everyone is against government intervention except when that intervention is on their behalf?
Oh yeah, I'm also fed up with hearing the garbage sounds leaking out of your headphones on public transport.
Yes, I'm old and I'm grumpy so get off my lawn.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30424058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422790</id>
	<title>While they're at it...</title>
	<author>papapurinii</author>
	<datestamp>1260721800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why don't they ban tobacco, alcohol and Amsterdam's prostitution?
Oh wait. That would be CONSISTENT. Sorry.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do n't they ban tobacco , alcohol and Amsterdam 's prostitution ?
Oh wait .
That would be CONSISTENT .
Sorry .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why don't they ban tobacco, alcohol and Amsterdam's prostitution?
Oh wait.
That would be CONSISTENT.
Sorry.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30437780</id>
	<title>Re:Forget disabled users...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260796140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Was it too much to finish reading the summary? You won't have to hack it, you'll just have to disable the volume limiter.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Was it too much to finish reading the summary ?
You wo n't have to hack it , you 'll just have to disable the volume limiter .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Was it too much to finish reading the summary?
You won't have to hack it, you'll just have to disable the volume limiter.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422660</id>
	<title>Re:What about the headphones</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1260720720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Uuum, must have been back in 2000. I got the 5800, and Nokia phones have had a normal jack for a loooong time. (2001 or so.)</p><p>But about the volume. Yes, it&rsquo;s not that loud. But the highest setting is definitely loud enough. I nearly never use it.<br>Maybe it&rsquo;s because I use $150 headphones... The first thing I do with every new device, is throw away the &ldquo;headphones&rdquo;.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Uuum , must have been back in 2000 .
I got the 5800 , and Nokia phones have had a normal jack for a loooong time .
( 2001 or so .
) But about the volume .
Yes , it    s not that loud .
But the highest setting is definitely loud enough .
I nearly never use it.Maybe it    s because I use $ 150 headphones... The first thing I do with every new device , is throw away the    headphones    .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Uuum, must have been back in 2000.
I got the 5800, and Nokia phones have had a normal jack for a loooong time.
(2001 or so.
)But about the volume.
Yes, it’s not that loud.
But the highest setting is definitely loud enough.
I nearly never use it.Maybe it’s because I use $150 headphones... The first thing I do with every new device, is throw away the “headphones”.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422438</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30426362</id>
	<title>Re:But how to do that?</title>
	<author>EvilErik</author>
	<datestamp>1260709560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What? Never been to a Mot&#246;rhead gig? Sorry, can't hear you. What was that you said?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What ?
Never been to a Mot   rhead gig ?
Sorry , ca n't hear you .
What was that you said ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What?
Never been to a Motörhead gig?
Sorry, can't hear you.
What was that you said?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423534</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422356</id>
	<title>But how to do that?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260717420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But how to do that?<br>The effect used to play at 85db is not the same across all headphones.<br>The small tiny ones that comes with the player normaly need less effect to reach 85db then if you get some nice big headphones with better sound.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But how to do that ? The effect used to play at 85db is not the same across all headphones.The small tiny ones that comes with the player normaly need less effect to reach 85db then if you get some nice big headphones with better sound .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But how to do that?The effect used to play at 85db is not the same across all headphones.The small tiny ones that comes with the player normaly need less effect to reach 85db then if you get some nice big headphones with better sound.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422830</id>
	<title>Re:What next?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260722220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There isn't one the law states  uses an American politician as they are allways seeking to grease their palm with some crap</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is n't one the law states uses an American politician as they are allways seeking to grease their palm with some crap</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There isn't one the law states  uses an American politician as they are allways seeking to grease their palm with some crap</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422684</id>
	<title>Re:Forget disabled users...</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1260720960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And what about reality? Do you have to hack reality too, to get back to a reasonable volume?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</p><p>I would say: &ldquo;Fix your ears!&rdquo;. But unfortunately, medicine does not care or want to fix things, and only sells you symptom treatments. So I have to say: If you need a hearing aid, get one.<br>Because reality ain&rsquo;t gonna adapt itself to you. Sorry, man.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And what about reality ?
Do you have to hack reality too , to get back to a reasonable volume ?
: PI would say :    Fix your ears !    .
But unfortunately , medicine does not care or want to fix things , and only sells you symptom treatments .
So I have to say : If you need a hearing aid , get one.Because reality ain    t gon na adapt itself to you .
Sorry , man .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And what about reality?
Do you have to hack reality too, to get back to a reasonable volume?
:PI would say: “Fix your ears!”.
But unfortunately, medicine does not care or want to fix things, and only sells you symptom treatments.
So I have to say: If you need a hearing aid, get one.Because reality ain’t gonna adapt itself to you.
Sorry, man.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30424282</id>
	<title>Traffic Noise</title>
	<author>PPH</author>
	<datestamp>1260735840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr>...often listened to while in traffic with the volume very high to drown out outside noise.</p></div><p>I know exactly what they mean. In particular, those guys that always follow me around with their sirens blaring really bug me.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...often listened to while in traffic with the volume very high to drown out outside noise.I know exactly what they mean .
In particular , those guys that always follow me around with their sirens blaring really bug me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ...often listened to while in traffic with the volume very high to drown out outside noise.I know exactly what they mean.
In particular, those guys that always follow me around with their sirens blaring really bug me.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30431900</id>
	<title>Not really true</title>
	<author>formfeed</author>
	<datestamp>1260810180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> Has anyone read the proposal?
</p><p> Harhar, that was a rhetorical question. I know I'm on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. </p><p>
Just for you non-readers though: the proposal is just to have mp3 players shipped with a maximum loudness enabled, it's not suggesting that you can't change that later.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Has anyone read the proposal ?
Harhar , that was a rhetorical question .
I know I 'm on / .
Just for you non-readers though : the proposal is just to have mp3 players shipped with a maximum loudness enabled , it 's not suggesting that you ca n't change that later .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Has anyone read the proposal?
Harhar, that was a rhetorical question.
I know I'm on /.
Just for you non-readers though: the proposal is just to have mp3 players shipped with a maximum loudness enabled, it's not suggesting that you can't change that later.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422524</id>
	<title>Re:Forget disabled users...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260719340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>will I have to hack it in order to listen to it at a reasonable volume for me?</i></p><p>No, sir, not at all; just paint the number "11" on the dial and turn it up to that. Not loud enough? Just put a "12" on it.</p><p>In all seriousness, have your tried a "jabberjaw" style device to use your mandible as a transducer to bypass the 8th cranial nerve? Ever electrocuted your own genitals for pleasure? Try it!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>will I have to hack it in order to listen to it at a reasonable volume for me ? No , sir , not at all ; just paint the number " 11 " on the dial and turn it up to that .
Not loud enough ?
Just put a " 12 " on it.In all seriousness , have your tried a " jabberjaw " style device to use your mandible as a transducer to bypass the 8th cranial nerve ?
Ever electrocuted your own genitals for pleasure ?
Try it !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>will I have to hack it in order to listen to it at a reasonable volume for me?No, sir, not at all; just paint the number "11" on the dial and turn it up to that.
Not loud enough?
Just put a "12" on it.In all seriousness, have your tried a "jabberjaw" style device to use your mandible as a transducer to bypass the 8th cranial nerve?
Ever electrocuted your own genitals for pleasure?
Try it!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423460</id>
	<title>Thanks.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260728340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>EU Recommends Noise Limits On MP3 Players</p></div><p>Thanks nanny.. I mean EU.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>EU Recommends Noise Limits On MP3 PlayersThanks nanny.. I mean EU .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>EU Recommends Noise Limits On MP3 PlayersThanks nanny.. I mean EU.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30425932</id>
	<title>Prejudice against the hard of hearing.</title>
	<author>cjsm</author>
	<datestamp>1260705720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree, this bill is prejudice against the hard of hearing.  And if these clueless lawmakers don't know, most MP3 player users are hard of hearing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree , this bill is prejudice against the hard of hearing .
And if these clueless lawmakers do n't know , most MP3 player users are hard of hearing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree, this bill is prejudice against the hard of hearing.
And if these clueless lawmakers don't know, most MP3 player users are hard of hearing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30430026</id>
	<title>deja vu</title>
	<author>cbope</author>
	<datestamp>1260799980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have a 3rd gen iPod which I just happened to buy in a duty free shop at the Paris airport several years ago. Unfortunately, France had a similar law regarding the output volume of mobile devices and my iPod was limited (great, thanks). It really sucked when I tried to use high quality full size Sennheiser headphones with this iPod, it just would not drive them enough to get decent volume levels. I'm not talking deafening levels, but decent music listening levels. I had to resort to a firmware hack on the iPod that disabled the volume limit and I vowed never to buy any mobile electronics in France ever again, thanks to this ridiculous law.</p><p>Now, I wonder if this is yet again another French law being forced onto the rest of the EU by France. They seem to be getting good at this lately (three strikes anyone...?)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a 3rd gen iPod which I just happened to buy in a duty free shop at the Paris airport several years ago .
Unfortunately , France had a similar law regarding the output volume of mobile devices and my iPod was limited ( great , thanks ) .
It really sucked when I tried to use high quality full size Sennheiser headphones with this iPod , it just would not drive them enough to get decent volume levels .
I 'm not talking deafening levels , but decent music listening levels .
I had to resort to a firmware hack on the iPod that disabled the volume limit and I vowed never to buy any mobile electronics in France ever again , thanks to this ridiculous law.Now , I wonder if this is yet again another French law being forced onto the rest of the EU by France .
They seem to be getting good at this lately ( three strikes anyone... ?
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a 3rd gen iPod which I just happened to buy in a duty free shop at the Paris airport several years ago.
Unfortunately, France had a similar law regarding the output volume of mobile devices and my iPod was limited (great, thanks).
It really sucked when I tried to use high quality full size Sennheiser headphones with this iPod, it just would not drive them enough to get decent volume levels.
I'm not talking deafening levels, but decent music listening levels.
I had to resort to a firmware hack on the iPod that disabled the volume limit and I vowed never to buy any mobile electronics in France ever again, thanks to this ridiculous law.Now, I wonder if this is yet again another French law being forced onto the rest of the EU by France.
They seem to be getting good at this lately (three strikes anyone...?
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422614</id>
	<title>Re:But how to do that?</title>
	<author>erroneus</author>
	<datestamp>1260720120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's an interesting point/question.  The output of one set of headphones will be different from another set of earbuds.  There would have to be some sort of end-user calibration process to get it right.  And given how many people still have electronic devices that blink "12:00" I think any such requirement would result in a failure and a lot of wasted money for the added functionality.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's an interesting point/question .
The output of one set of headphones will be different from another set of earbuds .
There would have to be some sort of end-user calibration process to get it right .
And given how many people still have electronic devices that blink " 12 : 00 " I think any such requirement would result in a failure and a lot of wasted money for the added functionality .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's an interesting point/question.
The output of one set of headphones will be different from another set of earbuds.
There would have to be some sort of end-user calibration process to get it right.
And given how many people still have electronic devices that blink "12:00" I think any such requirement would result in a failure and a lot of wasted money for the added functionality.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422356</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30424680</id>
	<title>You can limit the watts</title>
	<author>Joce640k</author>
	<datestamp>1260695940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Then the impedences will sort themselves out (headphone manufacturers will all have to hit the sweet spot if they want any customers).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Then the impedences will sort themselves out ( headphone manufacturers will all have to hit the sweet spot if they want any customers ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Then the impedences will sort themselves out (headphone manufacturers will all have to hit the sweet spot if they want any customers).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423484</id>
	<title>Re:I travel on the Tube to work</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260728640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sorry, did you say something? My hearing was fscked up by travelling on the Victoria Line.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry , did you say something ?
My hearing was fscked up by travelling on the Victoria Line .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry, did you say something?
My hearing was fscked up by travelling on the Victoria Line.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422538</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422624</id>
	<title>Yeah right...</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1260720300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Modern personal players are seen as more dangerous than stationary players or old-fashioned cassette or disk players because they can store hours of music [...]</p></div><p>Because my Walkman with a dozen cassettes in the backpack, and my MP3 CD player couldn&rsquo;t do that...</p><p><div class="quote"><p>[...] and are often listened to while in traffic with the volume very high to drown out outside.</p></div><p>And here is the real reason.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Modern personal players are seen as more dangerous than stationary players or old-fashioned cassette or disk players because they can store hours of music [ ... ] Because my Walkman with a dozen cassettes in the backpack , and my MP3 CD player couldn    t do that... [ ... ] and are often listened to while in traffic with the volume very high to drown out outside.And here is the real reason .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Modern personal players are seen as more dangerous than stationary players or old-fashioned cassette or disk players because they can store hours of music [...]Because my Walkman with a dozen cassettes in the backpack, and my MP3 CD player couldn’t do that...[...] and are often listened to while in traffic with the volume very high to drown out outside.And here is the real reason.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30426148</id>
	<title>*poof* one year later...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260707400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Something I can't figure out about my new MP3 player, if you dial the volume past "EU-Max" there's a setting marked <i>11</i>.</p><p>What's up with that?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Something I ca n't figure out about my new MP3 player , if you dial the volume past " EU-Max " there 's a setting marked 11.What 's up with that ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Something I can't figure out about my new MP3 player, if you dial the volume past "EU-Max" there's a setting marked 11.What's up with that?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30428078</id>
	<title>could it be from more mass of air using speakers?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260726720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I mean more mv from the more m == more damage.The *perception* of a given 'loudness' may be quite different between using headsets as opposed to free listening with speakers. Nowhere near as much m needed to vibrate in just the ear canal with a headset as opposed to a whole room or area. Woomp!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I mean more mv from the more m = = more damage.The * perception * of a given 'loudness ' may be quite different between using headsets as opposed to free listening with speakers .
Nowhere near as much m needed to vibrate in just the ear canal with a headset as opposed to a whole room or area .
Woomp !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I mean more mv from the more m == more damage.The *perception* of a given 'loudness' may be quite different between using headsets as opposed to free listening with speakers.
Nowhere near as much m needed to vibrate in just the ear canal with a headset as opposed to a whole room or area.
Woomp!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422638</id>
	<title>Re:Better Headphones</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1260720480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow, you really bought into their fake argument about protecting us, did you? ^^</p><p>The real reason may be the listening in traffic. But who would profit from this?</p><p>Because there always is one profiting. (Not necessarily money. Can also be power, etc.) Because that is what the motivation comes from in the first place.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow , you really bought into their fake argument about protecting us , did you ?
^ ^ The real reason may be the listening in traffic .
But who would profit from this ? Because there always is one profiting .
( Not necessarily money .
Can also be power , etc .
) Because that is what the motivation comes from in the first place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow, you really bought into their fake argument about protecting us, did you?
^^The real reason may be the listening in traffic.
But who would profit from this?Because there always is one profiting.
(Not necessarily money.
Can also be power, etc.
) Because that is what the motivation comes from in the first place.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422390</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423920</id>
	<title>Re:What about the headphones</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260732480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The power delivered to the ears depends on the headphones. I don't know how they plan to do anything meaningful here, they would have to set the limit based on the most "powerful" headphones, which means that the lesser ones will be inaudible.</i></p><p>Good point. Let's take a look to see if the proposed bill is being backed by high-end headphone manufacturers.</p><p>Seriously tho, people need to just take responsibility for their own stupidity at some point. I listen to my mp3 player for long hours at work, and much of the time I have the volume simply set to 1. I can hear the music just fine at that level and I can hear everything going on around me and it's just fine.</p><p>Just because you have your headphones on doesn't mean you're no longer liable for not paying attention to your surroundings. If where you are is too noisy to listen to the music, then perhaps you should put the music away or GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. The only place where it would be safe to drown out the surroundings is in the comfort of your own home.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The power delivered to the ears depends on the headphones .
I do n't know how they plan to do anything meaningful here , they would have to set the limit based on the most " powerful " headphones , which means that the lesser ones will be inaudible.Good point .
Let 's take a look to see if the proposed bill is being backed by high-end headphone manufacturers.Seriously tho , people need to just take responsibility for their own stupidity at some point .
I listen to my mp3 player for long hours at work , and much of the time I have the volume simply set to 1 .
I can hear the music just fine at that level and I can hear everything going on around me and it 's just fine.Just because you have your headphones on does n't mean you 're no longer liable for not paying attention to your surroundings .
If where you are is too noisy to listen to the music , then perhaps you should put the music away or GO SOMEWHERE ELSE .
The only place where it would be safe to drown out the surroundings is in the comfort of your own home .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The power delivered to the ears depends on the headphones.
I don't know how they plan to do anything meaningful here, they would have to set the limit based on the most "powerful" headphones, which means that the lesser ones will be inaudible.Good point.
Let's take a look to see if the proposed bill is being backed by high-end headphone manufacturers.Seriously tho, people need to just take responsibility for their own stupidity at some point.
I listen to my mp3 player for long hours at work, and much of the time I have the volume simply set to 1.
I can hear the music just fine at that level and I can hear everything going on around me and it's just fine.Just because you have your headphones on doesn't mean you're no longer liable for not paying attention to your surroundings.
If where you are is too noisy to listen to the music, then perhaps you should put the music away or GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.
The only place where it would be safe to drown out the surroundings is in the comfort of your own home.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422438</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30429652</id>
	<title>Re:But how to do that?</title>
	<author>TheRaven64</author>
	<datestamp>1260795180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>People creating these laws are often ignorant.  For example, my local council places noise limits for outside events in the middle of the city.  Unfortunately, they used the dBA scale (which is explicitly stated as not being designed for this kind of use), which is intended to be close to human perception and so is weighted towards the midrange and strongly away from the lower frequencies.  When the noise monitors detect that the level is too high, the DJs just drop the midrange and amp up the base.  For people living a few hundred metres away, the total energy received increases (and causes windows and doors to shake).</htmltext>
<tokenext>People creating these laws are often ignorant .
For example , my local council places noise limits for outside events in the middle of the city .
Unfortunately , they used the dBA scale ( which is explicitly stated as not being designed for this kind of use ) , which is intended to be close to human perception and so is weighted towards the midrange and strongly away from the lower frequencies .
When the noise monitors detect that the level is too high , the DJs just drop the midrange and amp up the base .
For people living a few hundred metres away , the total energy received increases ( and causes windows and doors to shake ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People creating these laws are often ignorant.
For example, my local council places noise limits for outside events in the middle of the city.
Unfortunately, they used the dBA scale (which is explicitly stated as not being designed for this kind of use), which is intended to be close to human perception and so is weighted towards the midrange and strongly away from the lower frequencies.
When the noise monitors detect that the level is too high, the DJs just drop the midrange and amp up the base.
For people living a few hundred metres away, the total energy received increases (and causes windows and doors to shake).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423534</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423106</id>
	<title>Re:That costs more</title>
	<author>tomhudson</author>
	<datestamp>1260725160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
You don't want to completely seal the ear canal.  You create an area of much higher humidity and can get a nasty wax buildup ("what, I can't hear you - I've got this nasty wax build-up in my ear").
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You do n't want to completely seal the ear canal .
You create an area of much higher humidity and can get a nasty wax buildup ( " what , I ca n't hear you - I 've got this nasty wax build-up in my ear " ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
You don't want to completely seal the ear canal.
You create an area of much higher humidity and can get a nasty wax buildup ("what, I can't hear you - I've got this nasty wax build-up in my ear").
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422616</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422440</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong approach entirely</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260718380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Besides the obvious craziness/joke aspect, you're talking about a completely separate problem from TFA. It's not about stopping people from annoying others, it's about limiting the ability of media players to damage the wearers' ears on max. volume because, rightly or wrongly, people assume that if a device *can* do something (ie. play music at <i>X</i>db) then it is safe to do so.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Besides the obvious craziness/joke aspect , you 're talking about a completely separate problem from TFA .
It 's not about stopping people from annoying others , it 's about limiting the ability of media players to damage the wearers ' ears on max .
volume because , rightly or wrongly , people assume that if a device * can * do something ( ie .
play music at Xdb ) then it is safe to do so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Besides the obvious craziness/joke aspect, you're talking about a completely separate problem from TFA.
It's not about stopping people from annoying others, it's about limiting the ability of media players to damage the wearers' ears on max.
volume because, rightly or wrongly, people assume that if a device *can* do something (ie.
play music at Xdb) then it is safe to do so.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30424658</id>
	<title>Re:Wish they would regulate TV channels first.</title>
	<author>ShakaUVM</author>
	<datestamp>1260695760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>My music usually doesn't surprise me with sudden shifts of maximum volume. But every time a program switches to commercial on TV, the max volume is a shit load louder and with more commercials than ever before that means fiddling with the remote every other minute. It wasn't always this way and is way annoying.</i><br>Fortunately the nanny state has heard your plea, and there's legislation in congress to ban loud commericals.</p><p>(Don't mod this +funny, it's true.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My music usually does n't surprise me with sudden shifts of maximum volume .
But every time a program switches to commercial on TV , the max volume is a shit load louder and with more commercials than ever before that means fiddling with the remote every other minute .
It was n't always this way and is way annoying.Fortunately the nanny state has heard your plea , and there 's legislation in congress to ban loud commericals .
( Do n't mod this + funny , it 's true .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My music usually doesn't surprise me with sudden shifts of maximum volume.
But every time a program switches to commercial on TV, the max volume is a shit load louder and with more commercials than ever before that means fiddling with the remote every other minute.
It wasn't always this way and is way annoying.Fortunately the nanny state has heard your plea, and there's legislation in congress to ban loud commericals.
(Don't mod this +funny, it's true.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422454</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30427054</id>
	<title>Re:The problem COULD be elsewhere..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260715680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You know bolts of lightening do hit people from time to time. Just because it has not (yet) happened to you, does not mean that this phenomenon is nonexistant.</p><p>What I'm trying to say is, extensive studies have been done and they did find harmful effects of listening to loud music for prolonged time.<br>I'm just getting sick of people extrapolating their personal experiences to general rules.<br>Consider yourself lucky and be done with it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You know bolts of lightening do hit people from time to time .
Just because it has not ( yet ) happened to you , does not mean that this phenomenon is nonexistant.What I 'm trying to say is , extensive studies have been done and they did find harmful effects of listening to loud music for prolonged time.I 'm just getting sick of people extrapolating their personal experiences to general rules.Consider yourself lucky and be done with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know bolts of lightening do hit people from time to time.
Just because it has not (yet) happened to you, does not mean that this phenomenon is nonexistant.What I'm trying to say is, extensive studies have been done and they did find harmful effects of listening to loud music for prolonged time.I'm just getting sick of people extrapolating their personal experiences to general rules.Consider yourself lucky and be done with it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422510</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422874</id>
	<title>Re:Wish they would regulate TV channels first.</title>
	<author>RESPAWN</author>
	<datestamp>1260722520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, the Sleuth channel seems to be even worse at this than many others.  They were recently showing a lot of James Bond movies, so I recorded several on my DVR.  The volume during the movie actually seems lower than normal (I have to crank up the volume a couple of notches higher than most channels), but the volume during the commercials is insanely loud.</p><p>I guess I can look at the silver lining here.  More than once these ear splitting commercials have woken me up when I fell asleep watching a movie.  At least I got up and went to bed then instead of sleeping on the couch and winding up with a crick in my neck.</p><p>If anything, though, I catch even less of the commercials than I normally would as each commercial break is met with a frantic search for the remote so I can fast forward through them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , the Sleuth channel seems to be even worse at this than many others .
They were recently showing a lot of James Bond movies , so I recorded several on my DVR .
The volume during the movie actually seems lower than normal ( I have to crank up the volume a couple of notches higher than most channels ) , but the volume during the commercials is insanely loud.I guess I can look at the silver lining here .
More than once these ear splitting commercials have woken me up when I fell asleep watching a movie .
At least I got up and went to bed then instead of sleeping on the couch and winding up with a crick in my neck.If anything , though , I catch even less of the commercials than I normally would as each commercial break is met with a frantic search for the remote so I can fast forward through them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, the Sleuth channel seems to be even worse at this than many others.
They were recently showing a lot of James Bond movies, so I recorded several on my DVR.
The volume during the movie actually seems lower than normal (I have to crank up the volume a couple of notches higher than most channels), but the volume during the commercials is insanely loud.I guess I can look at the silver lining here.
More than once these ear splitting commercials have woken me up when I fell asleep watching a movie.
At least I got up and went to bed then instead of sleeping on the couch and winding up with a crick in my neck.If anything, though, I catch even less of the commercials than I normally would as each commercial break is met with a frantic search for the remote so I can fast forward through them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422454</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422658</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong approach entirely</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260720660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>A technical problem requires a technical solution.</p></div></blockquote><p>I wholeheartedly agree that it's the "wrong approach entirely", but you've misunderstood the nature of the problem and the solution.  <b>It's not a technical problem</b>.  Did you even read the summary much less RTFA?  Your solution is focused on something else entirely, not within the scope of what was being addressed.  This proposed authoritarian restriction isn't intended to keep music from being so loud that it bothers other people: it's intended to "protect" people from their own poor judgement concerning their own bodies and eardrums.</p><p>Thus the problem here is social and informational: <b>lack of education</b>.</p><p>The obvious solution is not <b>more</b> technology, it's the addition of education (or eliminating the lack of education).</p><p>What you suggest is the Technocrat equivalent of Democrats throwing money at a problem... and it's not even the same problem at issue here.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A technical problem requires a technical solution.I wholeheartedly agree that it 's the " wrong approach entirely " , but you 've misunderstood the nature of the problem and the solution .
It 's not a technical problem .
Did you even read the summary much less RTFA ?
Your solution is focused on something else entirely , not within the scope of what was being addressed .
This proposed authoritarian restriction is n't intended to keep music from being so loud that it bothers other people : it 's intended to " protect " people from their own poor judgement concerning their own bodies and eardrums.Thus the problem here is social and informational : lack of education.The obvious solution is not more technology , it 's the addition of education ( or eliminating the lack of education ) .What you suggest is the Technocrat equivalent of Democrats throwing money at a problem... and it 's not even the same problem at issue here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A technical problem requires a technical solution.I wholeheartedly agree that it's the "wrong approach entirely", but you've misunderstood the nature of the problem and the solution.
It's not a technical problem.
Did you even read the summary much less RTFA?
Your solution is focused on something else entirely, not within the scope of what was being addressed.
This proposed authoritarian restriction isn't intended to keep music from being so loud that it bothers other people: it's intended to "protect" people from their own poor judgement concerning their own bodies and eardrums.Thus the problem here is social and informational: lack of education.The obvious solution is not more technology, it's the addition of education (or eliminating the lack of education).What you suggest is the Technocrat equivalent of Democrats throwing money at a problem... and it's not even the same problem at issue here.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30429742</id>
	<title>Re:Nanny state</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260796500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the same nanny state has to provide welfare for people because they can't get a job due to permanent hearing loss, then it also has a right to enforce some sane limits. It's not like it's the end of the world to reduce the volume a little bit.</p><p>I'm all for allowing people to be stupid, but not when I'll have to pick up the tab at the end.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the same nanny state has to provide welfare for people because they ca n't get a job due to permanent hearing loss , then it also has a right to enforce some sane limits .
It 's not like it 's the end of the world to reduce the volume a little bit.I 'm all for allowing people to be stupid , but not when I 'll have to pick up the tab at the end .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the same nanny state has to provide welfare for people because they can't get a job due to permanent hearing loss, then it also has a right to enforce some sane limits.
It's not like it's the end of the world to reduce the volume a little bit.I'm all for allowing people to be stupid, but not when I'll have to pick up the tab at the end.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422674</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422542</id>
	<title>Sony Noise Canceling Kicks Ass</title>
	<author>knapper\_tech</author>
	<datestamp>1260719520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>The older players used to have some weak/annoying DRM, but the newer ones give you the freedom you want when uploading tracks.  I had a little 2GB older model that had an unbelievable battery life of like 50hrs.<br> <br>
One day I was walking by train tracks as a train was approaching.  Just as I pressed play (~2s delay to start up on that model) the train's horn starts up.   BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.....  That's the correctly capitalized onomatopoeia for a train against noise canceling earbuds.  They're awesome.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The older players used to have some weak/annoying DRM , but the newer ones give you the freedom you want when uploading tracks .
I had a little 2GB older model that had an unbelievable battery life of like 50hrs .
One day I was walking by train tracks as a train was approaching .
Just as I pressed play ( ~ 2s delay to start up on that model ) the train 's horn starts up .
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ! ! ! aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah..... That 's the correctly capitalized onomatopoeia for a train against noise canceling earbuds .
They 're awesome .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The older players used to have some weak/annoying DRM, but the newer ones give you the freedom you want when uploading tracks.
I had a little 2GB older model that had an unbelievable battery life of like 50hrs.
One day I was walking by train tracks as a train was approaching.
Just as I pressed play (~2s delay to start up on that model) the train's horn starts up.
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.....  That's the correctly capitalized onomatopoeia for a train against noise canceling earbuds.
They're awesome.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422390</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30424058</id>
	<title>What can't I f**king decide for myself?</title>
	<author>Raisey-raison</author>
	<datestamp>1260733740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Hearing loss is bad if it is caused by MP3 players, but it's okay when it's caused by police using crowd control devices against innocent civilians.</p></div><p>Yeah the cops get free reign. They also don't seem to care about the ill effects of being beaten up by a cop - really nasty health consequences there.</p><p>Why can't the government get out of my business??? If I choose turn the volume too high - its MY problem. Leave ME alone!!!</p><p>It's just like religion, opposition to abortion and stem cells on the political right - if you don't want to have an overly loud mp3 player, then turn down the volume (for yourself). Leave everyone else alone.</p><p>Another example of the destruction of personal liberty.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hearing loss is bad if it is caused by MP3 players , but it 's okay when it 's caused by police using crowd control devices against innocent civilians.Yeah the cops get free reign .
They also do n't seem to care about the ill effects of being beaten up by a cop - really nasty health consequences there.Why ca n't the government get out of my business ? ? ?
If I choose turn the volume too high - its MY problem .
Leave ME alone ! !
! It 's just like religion , opposition to abortion and stem cells on the political right - if you do n't want to have an overly loud mp3 player , then turn down the volume ( for yourself ) .
Leave everyone else alone.Another example of the destruction of personal liberty .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hearing loss is bad if it is caused by MP3 players, but it's okay when it's caused by police using crowd control devices against innocent civilians.Yeah the cops get free reign.
They also don't seem to care about the ill effects of being beaten up by a cop - really nasty health consequences there.Why can't the government get out of my business???
If I choose turn the volume too high - its MY problem.
Leave ME alone!!
!It's just like religion, opposition to abortion and stem cells on the political right - if you don't want to have an overly loud mp3 player, then turn down the volume (for yourself).
Leave everyone else alone.Another example of the destruction of personal liberty.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422364</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422954</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong approach entirely</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260723180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't know about that but I would love something similar for car receivers (which I guess technically includes iPods and the like playing through systems in vehicles).</p><p>It would be great to create a silent zone of about 1000 ft around my house so the little rich white gansta wannabes can stop blasting their shit as they drive by at all hours of the night.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know about that but I would love something similar for car receivers ( which I guess technically includes iPods and the like playing through systems in vehicles ) .It would be great to create a silent zone of about 1000 ft around my house so the little rich white gansta wannabes can stop blasting their shit as they drive by at all hours of the night .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know about that but I would love something similar for car receivers (which I guess technically includes iPods and the like playing through systems in vehicles).It would be great to create a silent zone of about 1000 ft around my house so the little rich white gansta wannabes can stop blasting their shit as they drive by at all hours of the night.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422950</id>
	<title>Re:And how will this work?</title>
	<author>AdamPee</author>
	<datestamp>1260723060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Though if you're using UEs on your iPod, you clearly have more money than sense.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Though if you 're using UEs on your iPod , you clearly have more money than sense .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Though if you're using UEs on your iPod, you clearly have more money than sense.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30426334</id>
	<title>What do people who are hard of hearing do?</title>
	<author>Skapare</author>
	<datestamp>1260709140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Many people are hard of hearing for many reasons, including that's what they had at birth.  They often require hearing aids to hear.  I can only imagine that hearing aids must be boosting the audio (I've never tried any).  They need to be able to boost the audio.  And some audio sources are way too low as it is.  This is really an impractical solution to a stupid nanny problem.  They should put their effort into real problems like fluorescent lights that give me a headache.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Many people are hard of hearing for many reasons , including that 's what they had at birth .
They often require hearing aids to hear .
I can only imagine that hearing aids must be boosting the audio ( I 've never tried any ) .
They need to be able to boost the audio .
And some audio sources are way too low as it is .
This is really an impractical solution to a stupid nanny problem .
They should put their effort into real problems like fluorescent lights that give me a headache .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many people are hard of hearing for many reasons, including that's what they had at birth.
They often require hearing aids to hear.
I can only imagine that hearing aids must be boosting the audio (I've never tried any).
They need to be able to boost the audio.
And some audio sources are way too low as it is.
This is really an impractical solution to a stupid nanny problem.
They should put their effort into real problems like fluorescent lights that give me a headache.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30432810</id>
	<title>And not to mention...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260814380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>64 dB should be enough for anybody...?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>64 dB should be enough for anybody... ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>64 dB should be enough for anybody...?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30428026</id>
	<title>Re:Forget disabled users...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260726060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Try <a href="http://www.headphone.com/headphones/closed.php" title="headphone.com" rel="nofollow">sealed headphones</a> [headphone.com].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Try sealed headphones [ headphone.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try sealed headphones [headphone.com].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30424422</id>
	<title>Re:Nanny state</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260736980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You must have never had to sit NEXT to some douchebag on the bus or train who insists that listening to Jay Z at 300dB is the shit and he's cool for doing so, right?</p><p>But then, I'm guessing you're a pretentious enough asshole that you've never ridden public transit in your life.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You must have never had to sit NEXT to some douchebag on the bus or train who insists that listening to Jay Z at 300dB is the shit and he 's cool for doing so , right ? But then , I 'm guessing you 're a pretentious enough asshole that you 've never ridden public transit in your life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You must have never had to sit NEXT to some douchebag on the bus or train who insists that listening to Jay Z at 300dB is the shit and he's cool for doing so, right?But then, I'm guessing you're a pretentious enough asshole that you've never ridden public transit in your life.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422674</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423032</id>
	<title>Re:What about the headphones</title>
	<author>richlv</author>
	<datestamp>1260724140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>$150 is about 1/4 of the official average wage here - or maybe 1/3, given the current economical situation. cheapest plugs start at equivalent of $1, or maybe less.<br>try walking around and showing off your earplugs, good luck.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>$ 150 is about 1/4 of the official average wage here - or maybe 1/3 , given the current economical situation .
cheapest plugs start at equivalent of $ 1 , or maybe less.try walking around and showing off your earplugs , good luck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>$150 is about 1/4 of the official average wage here - or maybe 1/3, given the current economical situation.
cheapest plugs start at equivalent of $1, or maybe less.try walking around and showing off your earplugs, good luck.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422660</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423442</id>
	<title>alternative</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260728100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>rather than putting a limit on how loud an mp3 player can be, why not simply have mp3 players have a default notification system that warns that you may be damaging you ears when you have the volume level above a certain level. That way when you are using it with high end headphones or portable speakers or something you aren't hindered. But if you are using the stock earbuds and blowing your eardrums out the only person you have to blame is yourself.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>rather than putting a limit on how loud an mp3 player can be , why not simply have mp3 players have a default notification system that warns that you may be damaging you ears when you have the volume level above a certain level .
That way when you are using it with high end headphones or portable speakers or something you are n't hindered .
But if you are using the stock earbuds and blowing your eardrums out the only person you have to blame is yourself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>rather than putting a limit on how loud an mp3 player can be, why not simply have mp3 players have a default notification system that warns that you may be damaging you ears when you have the volume level above a certain level.
That way when you are using it with high end headphones or portable speakers or something you aren't hindered.
But if you are using the stock earbuds and blowing your eardrums out the only person you have to blame is yourself.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30430230</id>
	<title>Dumb</title>
	<author>sega01</author>
	<datestamp>1260801660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is just dumb. Obviously, different headphones have different impedance levels and different dB to power ratio, so your tinny and tiny Ipod junkphones may be around 90dB when your cans are around 70dB.</p><p>The thing is, why can't governments let people think for themselves anymore? At most, make a public disclaimer, just always let people do what they want since it isn't their responsibility.</p><p>In general most regulations are fail.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is just dumb .
Obviously , different headphones have different impedance levels and different dB to power ratio , so your tinny and tiny Ipod junkphones may be around 90dB when your cans are around 70dB.The thing is , why ca n't governments let people think for themselves anymore ?
At most , make a public disclaimer , just always let people do what they want since it is n't their responsibility.In general most regulations are fail .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is just dumb.
Obviously, different headphones have different impedance levels and different dB to power ratio, so your tinny and tiny Ipod junkphones may be around 90dB when your cans are around 70dB.The thing is, why can't governments let people think for themselves anymore?
At most, make a public disclaimer, just always let people do what they want since it isn't their responsibility.In general most regulations are fail.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423870</id>
	<title>Car audo should have limits ... not MP3</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260731940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I really don't care if MP3 users go deaf, as it only affects the user. I would rather see limits on car audio. If you've ever lived in an apartment complex, you know what it is like to be disturbed by others around you. MP3 users should just sue the manufacturers, or there should be warnings like with tabaco products<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... use at your own risk.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I really do n't care if MP3 users go deaf , as it only affects the user .
I would rather see limits on car audio .
If you 've ever lived in an apartment complex , you know what it is like to be disturbed by others around you .
MP3 users should just sue the manufacturers , or there should be warnings like with tabaco products ... use at your own risk .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I really don't care if MP3 users go deaf, as it only affects the user.
I would rather see limits on car audio.
If you've ever lived in an apartment complex, you know what it is like to be disturbed by others around you.
MP3 users should just sue the manufacturers, or there should be warnings like with tabaco products ... use at your own risk.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423466</id>
	<title>Re:That costs more//But does it have to?</title>
	<author>sznupi</author>
	<datestamp>1260728400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was wondering - with current digital audio players wouldn't it be quite cheap to pick up sounds with some basic microphone in the player, shift it in phase, accordingly, on CPU/DSP...and that's it, without much in the way of specialized hardware?</p><p>Yes, the effect wouldn't be ideal because of ear-player separation, but in such usage scenario it's mostly about "good enough"...</p><p>(though regarding ear-player separation - would it be possible to use normal headphones as poor microphones (just for "good enough" noise canceling), at the same time as playing through them music <i>and</i> half-shifted in phase sounds picked up moments before? A bit too much, I guess...)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was wondering - with current digital audio players would n't it be quite cheap to pick up sounds with some basic microphone in the player , shift it in phase , accordingly , on CPU/DSP...and that 's it , without much in the way of specialized hardware ? Yes , the effect would n't be ideal because of ear-player separation , but in such usage scenario it 's mostly about " good enough " ... ( though regarding ear-player separation - would it be possible to use normal headphones as poor microphones ( just for " good enough " noise canceling ) , at the same time as playing through them music and half-shifted in phase sounds picked up moments before ?
A bit too much , I guess... )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was wondering - with current digital audio players wouldn't it be quite cheap to pick up sounds with some basic microphone in the player, shift it in phase, accordingly, on CPU/DSP...and that's it, without much in the way of specialized hardware?Yes, the effect wouldn't be ideal because of ear-player separation, but in such usage scenario it's mostly about "good enough"...(though regarding ear-player separation - would it be possible to use normal headphones as poor microphones (just for "good enough" noise canceling), at the same time as playing through them music and half-shifted in phase sounds picked up moments before?
A bit too much, I guess...)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422616</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30424432</id>
	<title>Re:Nanny state</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260737100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>It's not right that everyone in the airplane has to put up with your stench if you haven't quit smoking yet. However who is harmed, apart from yourself, if you wear headphones and crank up the volume?</i> </p><p>Was with you right up until this point.  Then ya blew it.</p><p>I happen to find the sound of someone else's loud headphones far more annoying than the smell of smoke.  No, I am not a smoker, but I hang around people who do.</p><p>So I'll tell ya what.</p><p>I'll tolerate your loud headphone music if you tolerate the smell of other peoples' smoke.</p><p>That way, we all win.</p><p>The danger comes in precisely when people's annoyances develop into calls for law, which is what you've just done for smoking.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not right that everyone in the airplane has to put up with your stench if you have n't quit smoking yet .
However who is harmed , apart from yourself , if you wear headphones and crank up the volume ?
Was with you right up until this point .
Then ya blew it.I happen to find the sound of someone else 's loud headphones far more annoying than the smell of smoke .
No , I am not a smoker , but I hang around people who do.So I 'll tell ya what.I 'll tolerate your loud headphone music if you tolerate the smell of other peoples ' smoke.That way , we all win.The danger comes in precisely when people 's annoyances develop into calls for law , which is what you 've just done for smoking .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> It's not right that everyone in the airplane has to put up with your stench if you haven't quit smoking yet.
However who is harmed, apart from yourself, if you wear headphones and crank up the volume?
Was with you right up until this point.
Then ya blew it.I happen to find the sound of someone else's loud headphones far more annoying than the smell of smoke.
No, I am not a smoker, but I hang around people who do.So I'll tell ya what.I'll tolerate your loud headphone music if you tolerate the smell of other peoples' smoke.That way, we all win.The danger comes in precisely when people's annoyances develop into calls for law, which is what you've just done for smoking.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422674</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423134</id>
	<title>Re:But how to do that?</title>
	<author>Random5</author>
	<datestamp>1260725280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Strangely enough while reading this article I've just bumped into the problem of this work PC's soundcard being unable to push my headphones past around 80dB while just last week a volume setting <br>Actually my roughly 4 or so year old Creative Zen Vision M (which still works perfectly) came with a limiter option called safesound or softsound or something which scaled the maximum volume setting down to a fairly harmless level.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Strangely enough while reading this article I 've just bumped into the problem of this work PC 's soundcard being unable to push my headphones past around 80dB while just last week a volume setting Actually my roughly 4 or so year old Creative Zen Vision M ( which still works perfectly ) came with a limiter option called safesound or softsound or something which scaled the maximum volume setting down to a fairly harmless level .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Strangely enough while reading this article I've just bumped into the problem of this work PC's soundcard being unable to push my headphones past around 80dB while just last week a volume setting Actually my roughly 4 or so year old Creative Zen Vision M (which still works perfectly) came with a limiter option called safesound or softsound or something which scaled the maximum volume setting down to a fairly harmless level.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422356</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30429026</id>
	<title>Re:Nanny state</title>
	<author>dkf</author>
	<datestamp>1260784560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I'll tolerate your loud headphone music if you tolerate the smell of other peoples' smoke.</p><p>That way, we all win.</p></div><p>Alternatively we can just taser the most egregious assholes before garroting them with their own headphone cables. That way, we all win.</p><p>Seriously, the enormous majority of people on the train that I see every day when commuting manage to keep volumes low enough that they're just entertaining themselves. That's great! Only a very few feel the need to impose their sucky tastes in music on the rest of us.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll tolerate your loud headphone music if you tolerate the smell of other peoples ' smoke.That way , we all win.Alternatively we can just taser the most egregious assholes before garroting them with their own headphone cables .
That way , we all win.Seriously , the enormous majority of people on the train that I see every day when commuting manage to keep volumes low enough that they 're just entertaining themselves .
That 's great !
Only a very few feel the need to impose their sucky tastes in music on the rest of us .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll tolerate your loud headphone music if you tolerate the smell of other peoples' smoke.That way, we all win.Alternatively we can just taser the most egregious assholes before garroting them with their own headphone cables.
That way, we all win.Seriously, the enormous majority of people on the train that I see every day when commuting manage to keep volumes low enough that they're just entertaining themselves.
That's great!
Only a very few feel the need to impose their sucky tastes in music on the rest of us.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30424432</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30424686</id>
	<title>Re:And how will this work?</title>
	<author>Reziac</author>
	<datestamp>1260696000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nope, it'll do ONE useful thing (if not for consumers) -- it will protect the manufacturers from lawsuits over damaged hearing, since they'll be able to point at the imposed volume limit and say "It's not OUR fault".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nope , it 'll do ONE useful thing ( if not for consumers ) -- it will protect the manufacturers from lawsuits over damaged hearing , since they 'll be able to point at the imposed volume limit and say " It 's not OUR fault " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nope, it'll do ONE useful thing (if not for consumers) -- it will protect the manufacturers from lawsuits over damaged hearing, since they'll be able to point at the imposed volume limit and say "It's not OUR fault".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30425618</id>
	<title>Re:What can't I f**king decide for myself?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260702840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's just like religion, opposition to abortion and stem cells on the political right</p></div><p>Yeah, and they're always stopping you from killing adults, too.  What a bunch of killjoys!  They should just let you gun people down if you want to.  Born, unborn, who cares?  Kill them all.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's just like religion , opposition to abortion and stem cells on the political rightYeah , and they 're always stopping you from killing adults , too .
What a bunch of killjoys !
They should just let you gun people down if you want to .
Born , unborn , who cares ?
Kill them all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's just like religion, opposition to abortion and stem cells on the political rightYeah, and they're always stopping you from killing adults, too.
What a bunch of killjoys!
They should just let you gun people down if you want to.
Born, unborn, who cares?
Kill them all.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30424058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30429390</id>
	<title>car analogy</title>
	<author>StripedCow</author>
	<datestamp>1260790800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>as someone who listened to a lot of loud music, i like this idea</p><p>as an extension, i propose to do the same with cars. limit their speed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>as someone who listened to a lot of loud music , i like this ideaas an extension , i propose to do the same with cars .
limit their speed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>as someone who listened to a lot of loud music, i like this ideaas an extension, i propose to do the same with cars.
limit their speed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30425604</id>
	<title>What about the music?</title>
	<author>sribe</author>
	<datestamp>1260702780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The title says they're talking about limiting noise, which would imply something about the quality of sound reproduction. You know, signal/noise ratio and all that. But the article seems to about limiting music volume. Thus I infer that the submitter doesn't know the difference between noise and music<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The title says they 're talking about limiting noise , which would imply something about the quality of sound reproduction .
You know , signal/noise ratio and all that .
But the article seems to about limiting music volume .
Thus I infer that the submitter does n't know the difference between noise and music ; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The title says they're talking about limiting noise, which would imply something about the quality of sound reproduction.
You know, signal/noise ratio and all that.
But the article seems to about limiting music volume.
Thus I infer that the submitter doesn't know the difference between noise and music ;-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422994</id>
	<title>Re:Forget disabled users...</title>
	<author>Manip</author>
	<datestamp>1260723600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Apart from that comment being extremely offensive, how would you suggest I use a hearing aid with a headset? The feedback would make it impossible.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Apart from that comment being extremely offensive , how would you suggest I use a hearing aid with a headset ?
The feedback would make it impossible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Apart from that comment being extremely offensive, how would you suggest I use a hearing aid with a headset?
The feedback would make it impossible.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422684</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422538</id>
	<title>I travel on the Tube to work</title>
	<author>David Gerard</author>
	<datestamp>1260719460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's a pity the EU doesn't apply noise limits to public transport. The Victoria Line of the London Underground regularly hits 100dB. Travel on it to work every day for five years and your hearing will be permanently fucked up by it. Like mine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's a pity the EU does n't apply noise limits to public transport .
The Victoria Line of the London Underground regularly hits 100dB .
Travel on it to work every day for five years and your hearing will be permanently fucked up by it .
Like mine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's a pity the EU doesn't apply noise limits to public transport.
The Victoria Line of the London Underground regularly hits 100dB.
Travel on it to work every day for five years and your hearing will be permanently fucked up by it.
Like mine.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422446</id>
	<title>EU recommends nose limits on MPs?</title>
	<author>Norsefire</author>
	<datestamp>1260718440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Did the EU say members of parliament have big noses?<br> <br>

I must have heard wrong, you'll have to speak up -- I've been getting a bit deaf lately.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Did the EU say members of parliament have big noses ?
I must have heard wrong , you 'll have to speak up -- I 've been getting a bit deaf lately .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did the EU say members of parliament have big noses?
I must have heard wrong, you'll have to speak up -- I've been getting a bit deaf lately.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30429792</id>
	<title>Re:I travel on the Tube to work</title>
	<author>TheRaven64</author>
	<datestamp>1260797340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ugh, another set of incompetent regulations.  The limit from your first link is in dBA, which is a weighted scale designed for measuring human perception, not for noise.  It is weighted towards the ranges which humans perceive the best (midrange).  If you have very loud low frequencies, which can cause hearing damage but don't sound as loud, you get a lower dBA rating than if you have a higher midrange component and a lower bass component in the sound.  The amount of damage is related to the amount of energy in the sound, which can be much greater in the low frequencies.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ugh , another set of incompetent regulations .
The limit from your first link is in dBA , which is a weighted scale designed for measuring human perception , not for noise .
It is weighted towards the ranges which humans perceive the best ( midrange ) .
If you have very loud low frequencies , which can cause hearing damage but do n't sound as loud , you get a lower dBA rating than if you have a higher midrange component and a lower bass component in the sound .
The amount of damage is related to the amount of energy in the sound , which can be much greater in the low frequencies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ugh, another set of incompetent regulations.
The limit from your first link is in dBA, which is a weighted scale designed for measuring human perception, not for noise.
It is weighted towards the ranges which humans perceive the best (midrange).
If you have very loud low frequencies, which can cause hearing damage but don't sound as loud, you get a lower dBA rating than if you have a higher midrange component and a lower bass component in the sound.
The amount of damage is related to the amount of energy in the sound, which can be much greater in the low frequencies.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30426150</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422580</id>
	<title>There's a better solution....</title>
	<author>zen-o-matic</author>
	<datestamp>1260719820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This problem can be solved much more easily: get a pair of good noise cancelling / in-ear headphones (Sony, Sennheiser et al.) and there's no need for high levels of volume anymore. For example, I listen to music for hours every day and I've never had to crank up the volume more than 50\% on my Creative Zen because I have good headphones. (If you stood behind me and screamed or fired a gun and I wouldn't hear a thing.) Perhaps some consumer education is in place?</htmltext>
<tokenext>This problem can be solved much more easily : get a pair of good noise cancelling / in-ear headphones ( Sony , Sennheiser et al .
) and there 's no need for high levels of volume anymore .
For example , I listen to music for hours every day and I 've never had to crank up the volume more than 50 \ % on my Creative Zen because I have good headphones .
( If you stood behind me and screamed or fired a gun and I would n't hear a thing .
) Perhaps some consumer education is in place ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This problem can be solved much more easily: get a pair of good noise cancelling / in-ear headphones (Sony, Sennheiser et al.
) and there's no need for high levels of volume anymore.
For example, I listen to music for hours every day and I've never had to crank up the volume more than 50\% on my Creative Zen because I have good headphones.
(If you stood behind me and screamed or fired a gun and I wouldn't hear a thing.
) Perhaps some consumer education is in place?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423858</id>
	<title>Re:And how will this work?</title>
	<author>John Hasler</author>
	<datestamp>1260731820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Most likely the regulation will apply only to the headphones sold with the player.  If you are lucky the manufacturers will ship the things will low-efficiency phones.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Most likely the regulation will apply only to the headphones sold with the player .
If you are lucky the manufacturers will ship the things will low-efficiency phones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most likely the regulation will apply only to the headphones sold with the player.
If you are lucky the manufacturers will ship the things will low-efficiency phones.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422510</id>
	<title>The problem COULD be elsewhere..</title>
	<author>MindPrison</author>
	<datestamp>1260719160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>many of my peers are listening to VERY loud music at the clubs, in their home, in their cars - with ridiculous oversized stereos etc. I'm pretty sure that the MP3 players alone won't make a difference at all.</p><p>I'm in my 40's now, and I've been listening to MP3 players (including the first Walkmans/MiniDisc Players) since the beginning of my childhood, more than others...because I wasn't allowed to play loud music, and I found a great personal "peace" in listening to these - as loud as I wanted - wherever I wanted, any time.</p><p>This never damaged my hearing in any way, I've had my hearing checked regularly, and guess what - despite always using headphones - yes - even today...to avoid problems with my neighbors - I still hear like a 20 year old. Responsive at 18 khz or better, while my peers - can't even detect a 15 khz tone, and they always play loud music on their speakers...which I don't even have.</p><p>Go figure...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>many of my peers are listening to VERY loud music at the clubs , in their home , in their cars - with ridiculous oversized stereos etc .
I 'm pretty sure that the MP3 players alone wo n't make a difference at all.I 'm in my 40 's now , and I 've been listening to MP3 players ( including the first Walkmans/MiniDisc Players ) since the beginning of my childhood , more than others...because I was n't allowed to play loud music , and I found a great personal " peace " in listening to these - as loud as I wanted - wherever I wanted , any time.This never damaged my hearing in any way , I 've had my hearing checked regularly , and guess what - despite always using headphones - yes - even today...to avoid problems with my neighbors - I still hear like a 20 year old .
Responsive at 18 khz or better , while my peers - ca n't even detect a 15 khz tone , and they always play loud music on their speakers...which I do n't even have.Go figure.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>many of my peers are listening to VERY loud music at the clubs, in their home, in their cars - with ridiculous oversized stereos etc.
I'm pretty sure that the MP3 players alone won't make a difference at all.I'm in my 40's now, and I've been listening to MP3 players (including the first Walkmans/MiniDisc Players) since the beginning of my childhood, more than others...because I wasn't allowed to play loud music, and I found a great personal "peace" in listening to these - as loud as I wanted - wherever I wanted, any time.This never damaged my hearing in any way, I've had my hearing checked regularly, and guess what - despite always using headphones - yes - even today...to avoid problems with my neighbors - I still hear like a 20 year old.
Responsive at 18 khz or better, while my peers - can't even detect a 15 khz tone, and they always play loud music on their speakers...which I don't even have.Go figure...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30425428</id>
	<title>Re:What can't I f**king decide for myself?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260701340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They aren't doing this to invade your right to go to notch 11; they're doing this because idiots who don't know about it hurt themselves by playing it at the loudest setting.</p><p>A pair of consumer grade headphones has no reason whatsoever to include a setting that can inflict permanent hearing damage. What if it were hairdryer max setting that could set your pride on fire? Would you be fine with them objecting and putting a safety limiter on that or would you still want one of those because everybody in your monkeysphere is a responsible adult who'd never turn it up?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They are n't doing this to invade your right to go to notch 11 ; they 're doing this because idiots who do n't know about it hurt themselves by playing it at the loudest setting.A pair of consumer grade headphones has no reason whatsoever to include a setting that can inflict permanent hearing damage .
What if it were hairdryer max setting that could set your pride on fire ?
Would you be fine with them objecting and putting a safety limiter on that or would you still want one of those because everybody in your monkeysphere is a responsible adult who 'd never turn it up ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They aren't doing this to invade your right to go to notch 11; they're doing this because idiots who don't know about it hurt themselves by playing it at the loudest setting.A pair of consumer grade headphones has no reason whatsoever to include a setting that can inflict permanent hearing damage.
What if it were hairdryer max setting that could set your pride on fire?
Would you be fine with them objecting and putting a safety limiter on that or would you still want one of those because everybody in your monkeysphere is a responsible adult who'd never turn it up?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30424058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423686</id>
	<title>non engineers describing things again</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260730440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think you mean signal limits, not noise limits.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you mean signal limits , not noise limits .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you mean signal limits, not noise limits.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423438</id>
	<title>That's not a bad thing.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260728040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think the objective is to regulate what industrials can do with mp3 players, not regulate what the consumer choose. I believe the mp3 player has a test to pass and if it go below 85dB with it's included headphones it's good to go. If the consumer choose to change the headphone or add an amplifier or something he is absolutly free to do so.</p><p>It's important to protect the "dumb" consumer as he will be confident in what is sold to him. If there was no regulation industrials would start to add coca&#239;ne in your meals and actualy I don't think I exagerate this much.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think the objective is to regulate what industrials can do with mp3 players , not regulate what the consumer choose .
I believe the mp3 player has a test to pass and if it go below 85dB with it 's included headphones it 's good to go .
If the consumer choose to change the headphone or add an amplifier or something he is absolutly free to do so.It 's important to protect the " dumb " consumer as he will be confident in what is sold to him .
If there was no regulation industrials would start to add coca   ne in your meals and actualy I do n't think I exagerate this much .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think the objective is to regulate what industrials can do with mp3 players, not regulate what the consumer choose.
I believe the mp3 player has a test to pass and if it go below 85dB with it's included headphones it's good to go.
If the consumer choose to change the headphone or add an amplifier or something he is absolutly free to do so.It's important to protect the "dumb" consumer as he will be confident in what is sold to him.
If there was no regulation industrials would start to add cocaïne in your meals and actualy I don't think I exagerate this much.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422362</id>
	<title>Next.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260717480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They'll recommend limits on what you can hear, because it damages their likelihood to get elected.</htmltext>
<tokenext>They 'll recommend limits on what you can hear , because it damages their likelihood to get elected .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They'll recommend limits on what you can hear, because it damages their likelihood to get elected.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422620</id>
	<title>Dear government</title>
	<author>selven</author>
	<datestamp>1260720240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If we want to retain our hearing we can turn our volume below the maximum. If we want our children to retain their hearing many music players, like the iPod touch, have a parental control feature that limits volume.</p><p>Please stop trying to protect people from themselves.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If we want to retain our hearing we can turn our volume below the maximum .
If we want our children to retain their hearing many music players , like the iPod touch , have a parental control feature that limits volume.Please stop trying to protect people from themselves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If we want to retain our hearing we can turn our volume below the maximum.
If we want our children to retain their hearing many music players, like the iPod touch, have a parental control feature that limits volume.Please stop trying to protect people from themselves.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30433278</id>
	<title>Re: 85 dB limit</title>
	<author>Chirs</author>
	<datestamp>1260816660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If 85dB is the noise floor, everyone should be using either noise cancelling or noise blocking equipment anyway.</p><p>Anyone that boosts the volume so they can hear clearly above an 85dB floor is going to get hearing damage in fairly short order.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If 85dB is the noise floor , everyone should be using either noise cancelling or noise blocking equipment anyway.Anyone that boosts the volume so they can hear clearly above an 85dB floor is going to get hearing damage in fairly short order .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If 85dB is the noise floor, everyone should be using either noise cancelling or noise blocking equipment anyway.Anyone that boosts the volume so they can hear clearly above an 85dB floor is going to get hearing damage in fairly short order.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30424012</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423024</id>
	<title>Re:The problem COULD be elsewhere..</title>
	<author>qwertyatwork</author>
	<datestamp>1260724020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Do I need to get off of your lawn, or do you need to get off of mine?  Damned kids.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do I need to get off of your lawn , or do you need to get off of mine ?
Damned kids .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do I need to get off of your lawn, or do you need to get off of mine?
Damned kids.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422510</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423278</id>
	<title>Re:What next?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260726540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>EU regs on the maximum roughness of toilet paper?</p></div><p>we're working on that.<br>meanwhile, Italian parliament has just discussed how long a dog's tail should be.<br>no, obviously they couldn't make up their minds. (minds??)<br>(no, not a joke)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>EU regs on the maximum roughness of toilet paper ? we 're working on that.meanwhile , Italian parliament has just discussed how long a dog 's tail should be.no , obviously they could n't make up their minds .
( minds ? ? ) ( no , not a joke )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>EU regs on the maximum roughness of toilet paper?we're working on that.meanwhile, Italian parliament has just discussed how long a dog's tail should be.no, obviously they couldn't make up their minds.
(minds??)(no, not a joke)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30424044</id>
	<title>Re:Nanny state</title>
	<author>u38cg</author>
	<datestamp>1260733680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>One justification for it is public health.  Yes, people should be free to cause harm to themselves if they wish to, but frequently the state is left fixing the consequences (for example, criminal damage caused through drug abuse, health costs of alcoholics, etc).  Leaving aside the argument that the state shouldn't be dealing with that either (which is a valid argument but politically infeasible), it seems reasonable to discourage such behaviours now in order to save the state money later.</htmltext>
<tokenext>One justification for it is public health .
Yes , people should be free to cause harm to themselves if they wish to , but frequently the state is left fixing the consequences ( for example , criminal damage caused through drug abuse , health costs of alcoholics , etc ) .
Leaving aside the argument that the state should n't be dealing with that either ( which is a valid argument but politically infeasible ) , it seems reasonable to discourage such behaviours now in order to save the state money later .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One justification for it is public health.
Yes, people should be free to cause harm to themselves if they wish to, but frequently the state is left fixing the consequences (for example, criminal damage caused through drug abuse, health costs of alcoholics, etc).
Leaving aside the argument that the state shouldn't be dealing with that either (which is a valid argument but politically infeasible), it seems reasonable to discourage such behaviours now in order to save the state money later.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422674</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422552</id>
	<title>Re:What about the headphones</title>
	<author>mobby\_6kl</author>
	<datestamp>1260719580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My Creative Zen Xtra with the default EU firmware already limited output power years ago. Needless to say, I couldn't hear shit with my Etymotic in-ear monitors even at close to maximum volume (no, I'm not deaf). The regular shitty earbuds would probably be loud enough, except that in noisy environments such as public transport where the IEMs normally shine. Thankfully, reflashing the player with some other version of firmware removed this retarded limitation.</p><p>Another situation where unlimited output was useful is when I connected the player to inputs for other systems, like my 5.1 PC sound setup, or the car stereo. With other less powerful players (and I assume this one as well, prior to reflashing) the resulting volume is usually very low. Of course this also depends on the other amplifier as well, but still, the result is that with limited output I simply wouldn't be able to listen to my music in the car.</p><p>Unfortunately, it seems that the EU has ran out of farmers to subsidize a long time ago, and now they have too much time to waste on useless bullshit like this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My Creative Zen Xtra with the default EU firmware already limited output power years ago .
Needless to say , I could n't hear shit with my Etymotic in-ear monitors even at close to maximum volume ( no , I 'm not deaf ) .
The regular shitty earbuds would probably be loud enough , except that in noisy environments such as public transport where the IEMs normally shine .
Thankfully , reflashing the player with some other version of firmware removed this retarded limitation.Another situation where unlimited output was useful is when I connected the player to inputs for other systems , like my 5.1 PC sound setup , or the car stereo .
With other less powerful players ( and I assume this one as well , prior to reflashing ) the resulting volume is usually very low .
Of course this also depends on the other amplifier as well , but still , the result is that with limited output I simply would n't be able to listen to my music in the car.Unfortunately , it seems that the EU has ran out of farmers to subsidize a long time ago , and now they have too much time to waste on useless bullshit like this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My Creative Zen Xtra with the default EU firmware already limited output power years ago.
Needless to say, I couldn't hear shit with my Etymotic in-ear monitors even at close to maximum volume (no, I'm not deaf).
The regular shitty earbuds would probably be loud enough, except that in noisy environments such as public transport where the IEMs normally shine.
Thankfully, reflashing the player with some other version of firmware removed this retarded limitation.Another situation where unlimited output was useful is when I connected the player to inputs for other systems, like my 5.1 PC sound setup, or the car stereo.
With other less powerful players (and I assume this one as well, prior to reflashing) the resulting volume is usually very low.
Of course this also depends on the other amplifier as well, but still, the result is that with limited output I simply wouldn't be able to listen to my music in the car.Unfortunately, it seems that the EU has ran out of farmers to subsidize a long time ago, and now they have too much time to waste on useless bullshit like this.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422438</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423342</id>
	<title>Re:Better Headphones</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260727140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>          And since the European governments are so keen on protecting people why not have a collar locked to their necks that shocks them if they fail to brush and use floss three times daily. After all people must be protected from gum disease, mountain climbing, scuba diving and motorcycles at all costs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And since the European governments are so keen on protecting people why not have a collar locked to their necks that shocks them if they fail to brush and use floss three times daily .
After all people must be protected from gum disease , mountain climbing , scuba diving and motorcycles at all costs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>          And since the European governments are so keen on protecting people why not have a collar locked to their necks that shocks them if they fail to brush and use floss three times daily.
After all people must be protected from gum disease, mountain climbing, scuba diving and motorcycles at all costs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422390</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422870</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong approach entirely</title>
	<author>oldhack</author>
	<datestamp>1260722520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Don't listen to this guy - the troll's got the patent on tinfoil "hat" for mp3 players.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't listen to this guy - the troll 's got the patent on tinfoil " hat " for mp3 players .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't listen to this guy - the troll's got the patent on tinfoil "hat" for mp3 players.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422496</id>
	<title>It can't just be MP3 players</title>
	<author>cntThnkofAname</author>
	<datestamp>1260719040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>While I have no doubt that mp3 players and unregulated volume can cause hearing damage, one things these studies fail to look at is other developing technologies that can also play a part. People in my opinion, are very quick to blame one thing and one thing only. It's no doubt of anyones that we live in a louder time. I hear peoples car speakers when they drive by from my house, I'm constantly listening to loud music (not from head phones but from normal speakers), there's more traffic causing more ambient nose and to compensate music volume, speaking volume all get louder... not to mention the "necessity" for bigger and louder home theaters (the list can go on). These generally aren't problems grand-dad had to deal with. My point is, you can't just blame one thing and expect a problem as big and general as hearing loss to go away. If you limit head phones loudness then people may just decide to get better speakers to ruin their ears. Not to mention population growth... Even ten years ago 10 million people suffering from hearing loss would be a much higher percentage than today. I have seen warning labels that say prolonged exposure can cause hearing damage, and for all we know this is lowering the percent with hearing loss<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... but instead of actually finding out what we can do to better prevent it they're just going to shove some money to someone and they'll make quieter head phones and the government will claim they care about peoples health. Really I think they are wasting their time on this one.</htmltext>
<tokenext>While I have no doubt that mp3 players and unregulated volume can cause hearing damage , one things these studies fail to look at is other developing technologies that can also play a part .
People in my opinion , are very quick to blame one thing and one thing only .
It 's no doubt of anyones that we live in a louder time .
I hear peoples car speakers when they drive by from my house , I 'm constantly listening to loud music ( not from head phones but from normal speakers ) , there 's more traffic causing more ambient nose and to compensate music volume , speaking volume all get louder... not to mention the " necessity " for bigger and louder home theaters ( the list can go on ) .
These generally are n't problems grand-dad had to deal with .
My point is , you ca n't just blame one thing and expect a problem as big and general as hearing loss to go away .
If you limit head phones loudness then people may just decide to get better speakers to ruin their ears .
Not to mention population growth... Even ten years ago 10 million people suffering from hearing loss would be a much higher percentage than today .
I have seen warning labels that say prolonged exposure can cause hearing damage , and for all we know this is lowering the percent with hearing loss ... but instead of actually finding out what we can do to better prevent it they 're just going to shove some money to someone and they 'll make quieter head phones and the government will claim they care about peoples health .
Really I think they are wasting their time on this one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While I have no doubt that mp3 players and unregulated volume can cause hearing damage, one things these studies fail to look at is other developing technologies that can also play a part.
People in my opinion, are very quick to blame one thing and one thing only.
It's no doubt of anyones that we live in a louder time.
I hear peoples car speakers when they drive by from my house, I'm constantly listening to loud music (not from head phones but from normal speakers), there's more traffic causing more ambient nose and to compensate music volume, speaking volume all get louder... not to mention the "necessity" for bigger and louder home theaters (the list can go on).
These generally aren't problems grand-dad had to deal with.
My point is, you can't just blame one thing and expect a problem as big and general as hearing loss to go away.
If you limit head phones loudness then people may just decide to get better speakers to ruin their ears.
Not to mention population growth... Even ten years ago 10 million people suffering from hearing loss would be a much higher percentage than today.
I have seen warning labels that say prolonged exposure can cause hearing damage, and for all we know this is lowering the percent with hearing loss ... but instead of actually finding out what we can do to better prevent it they're just going to shove some money to someone and they'll make quieter head phones and the government will claim they care about peoples health.
Really I think they are wasting their time on this one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422438</id>
	<title>What about the headphones</title>
	<author>Nicolas MONNET</author>
	<datestamp>1260718380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The power delivered to the ears depends on the headphones. I don't know how they plan to do anything meaningful here, they would have to set the limit based on the most "powerful" headphones, which means that the lesser ones will be inaudible. I already had that kind of problem on Nokia phones, you can't hear for shit with them, the max volume is ridiculously low, esp. with their utterly failtastic brand headphones with their annoying 2.5mm jacks. I'm certain nobody will harm their eardrums with that, but I'm equally certain that I'm not buying a Nokia ever again to listen to podcasts.</p><p>And BTW, it's not noise moronmitter, it's power. You can have lots of noise in very low power.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The power delivered to the ears depends on the headphones .
I do n't know how they plan to do anything meaningful here , they would have to set the limit based on the most " powerful " headphones , which means that the lesser ones will be inaudible .
I already had that kind of problem on Nokia phones , you ca n't hear for shit with them , the max volume is ridiculously low , esp .
with their utterly failtastic brand headphones with their annoying 2.5mm jacks .
I 'm certain nobody will harm their eardrums with that , but I 'm equally certain that I 'm not buying a Nokia ever again to listen to podcasts.And BTW , it 's not noise moronmitter , it 's power .
You can have lots of noise in very low power .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The power delivered to the ears depends on the headphones.
I don't know how they plan to do anything meaningful here, they would have to set the limit based on the most "powerful" headphones, which means that the lesser ones will be inaudible.
I already had that kind of problem on Nokia phones, you can't hear for shit with them, the max volume is ridiculously low, esp.
with their utterly failtastic brand headphones with their annoying 2.5mm jacks.
I'm certain nobody will harm their eardrums with that, but I'm equally certain that I'm not buying a Nokia ever again to listen to podcasts.And BTW, it's not noise moronmitter, it's power.
You can have lots of noise in very low power.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30424088</id>
	<title>Re:Better Headphones</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260734100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Noise canceling involves putting out more noise to cancel the other noise, actually it's technically louder. Maybe sound isolating is what you were thinking of?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Noise canceling involves putting out more noise to cancel the other noise , actually it 's technically louder .
Maybe sound isolating is what you were thinking of ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Noise canceling involves putting out more noise to cancel the other noise, actually it's technically louder.
Maybe sound isolating is what you were thinking of?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422390</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30431966</id>
	<title>Re:It's raining cops!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260810600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In my reign, I intend to rein in the free-range cops. That will be my raison-d-etre.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In my reign , I intend to rein in the free-range cops .
That will be my raison-d-etre .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my reign, I intend to rein in the free-range cops.
That will be my raison-d-etre.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30424058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30426522</id>
	<title>The important question</title>
	<author>Ashe Tyrael</author>
	<datestamp>1260711360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If they do this, are they also going to place legal limits on the volume with which Ethel, sitting on the tram across from me, is going to talk about whichever soap or celebirty show has her attention this week? If I can't drown out their pathetic and often obnoxious ramblings, what the heck is a sane, rational person supposed to do?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If they do this , are they also going to place legal limits on the volume with which Ethel , sitting on the tram across from me , is going to talk about whichever soap or celebirty show has her attention this week ?
If I ca n't drown out their pathetic and often obnoxious ramblings , what the heck is a sane , rational person supposed to do ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they do this, are they also going to place legal limits on the volume with which Ethel, sitting on the tram across from me, is going to talk about whichever soap or celebirty show has her attention this week?
If I can't drown out their pathetic and often obnoxious ramblings, what the heck is a sane, rational person supposed to do?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422502</id>
	<title>Easy bypass</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260719100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'll just turn my player up to 11.  Problem solved.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll just turn my player up to 11 .
Problem solved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll just turn my player up to 11.
Problem solved.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422390</id>
	<title>Better Headphones</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260717840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Since we are going the consumer protect route, wouldn't it be better for headphones/ear buds to require noise cancelling technologies so the music doesn't have to be turned up as high?</p><p>That would make it harder to hear things while driving, but you shouldn't have headphones in while driving.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Since we are going the consumer protect route , would n't it be better for headphones/ear buds to require noise cancelling technologies so the music does n't have to be turned up as high ? That would make it harder to hear things while driving , but you should n't have headphones in while driving .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since we are going the consumer protect route, wouldn't it be better for headphones/ear buds to require noise cancelling technologies so the music doesn't have to be turned up as high?That would make it harder to hear things while driving, but you shouldn't have headphones in while driving.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423568</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong approach entirely</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260729420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hey Mods!! How come this one is marked redundant?? Check the time stamp - it was written before the other one!!!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey Mods ! !
How come this one is marked redundant ? ?
Check the time stamp - it was written before the other one ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey Mods!!
How come this one is marked redundant??
Check the time stamp - it was written before the other one!!
!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422458</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422616</id>
	<title>That costs more</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260720240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is no shortage of headphones that will deal with noise. Good IEMs (in ear monitors) do a great job. They are passive, they create a tight seal on your ear and thus attenuate noise in the same way earplugs do, and to about the same degree. There are also active systems for over the ear phones. However, in both cases, you aren't getting it for $10. Have to shell out a reasonable bit of cash. Well, that is hard with cheap electronics. Nobody wants to double the cost of a cheap MP3 player just for the phones.</p><p>Thus they take the bonehead route that doesn't really accomplish anything.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is no shortage of headphones that will deal with noise .
Good IEMs ( in ear monitors ) do a great job .
They are passive , they create a tight seal on your ear and thus attenuate noise in the same way earplugs do , and to about the same degree .
There are also active systems for over the ear phones .
However , in both cases , you are n't getting it for $ 10 .
Have to shell out a reasonable bit of cash .
Well , that is hard with cheap electronics .
Nobody wants to double the cost of a cheap MP3 player just for the phones.Thus they take the bonehead route that does n't really accomplish anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is no shortage of headphones that will deal with noise.
Good IEMs (in ear monitors) do a great job.
They are passive, they create a tight seal on your ear and thus attenuate noise in the same way earplugs do, and to about the same degree.
There are also active systems for over the ear phones.
However, in both cases, you aren't getting it for $10.
Have to shell out a reasonable bit of cash.
Well, that is hard with cheap electronics.
Nobody wants to double the cost of a cheap MP3 player just for the phones.Thus they take the bonehead route that doesn't really accomplish anything.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422390</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423370</id>
	<title>Meh... it should be limited to 65dB...</title>
	<author>mark-t</author>
	<datestamp>1260727380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>65dB is only slightly above a normal conversation.  If they *really* want louder than that, plug an amplifier into it.
<p>
If there's too much other noise to hear it easily at 65dB, then they need to wear something other than ear buds that will actively block out outside noises.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>65dB is only slightly above a normal conversation .
If they * really * want louder than that , plug an amplifier into it .
If there 's too much other noise to hear it easily at 65dB , then they need to wear something other than ear buds that will actively block out outside noises .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>65dB is only slightly above a normal conversation.
If they *really* want louder than that, plug an amplifier into it.
If there's too much other noise to hear it easily at 65dB, then they need to wear something other than ear buds that will actively block out outside noises.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30424012</id>
	<title>re: 85 dB limit</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260733440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>85 dB (C) is approximately the noise floor in many locations where I would wear my player.  I use both noise canceling headphones and an external headphone amp, so it wouldn't matter so much to me, but I can see this limit rendering a player all but useless unless a customer invests in the additional equipment.  Maybe this decision is a result of the electronics lobby?</htmltext>
<tokenext>85 dB ( C ) is approximately the noise floor in many locations where I would wear my player .
I use both noise canceling headphones and an external headphone amp , so it would n't matter so much to me , but I can see this limit rendering a player all but useless unless a customer invests in the additional equipment .
Maybe this decision is a result of the electronics lobby ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>85 dB (C) is approximately the noise floor in many locations where I would wear my player.
I use both noise canceling headphones and an external headphone amp, so it wouldn't matter so much to me, but I can see this limit rendering a player all but useless unless a customer invests in the additional equipment.
Maybe this decision is a result of the electronics lobby?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423178</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong approach entirely</title>
	<author>poofmeisterp</author>
	<datestamp>1260725520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I commend the humor!</p><p>I'll add.  You know, because I have a good sense of humor, as well.</p><p>Alright, why not leave the situation alone?  Let people play too loudly, irritate others, and/or cause hearing loss.  Once it has been done (whichever angle you want to look at it from), form a startup company or government regulation (pick your poison) to "fix" the problems that have been created.  Have the audio device company executives paid for their "services" by the "fixer" reps/company officials.  You know, to help the company thrive and continue to create devices that people find enjoyable?  The "fixer" entity (or entities) are just out there to help solve problems.  I mean, come on.</p><p>Wait, why is this reminding me of another country and other instances?  Oh.  OH.....  Ohhhh.</p><p>LOL<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:&gt;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I commend the humor ! I 'll add .
You know , because I have a good sense of humor , as well.Alright , why not leave the situation alone ?
Let people play too loudly , irritate others , and/or cause hearing loss .
Once it has been done ( whichever angle you want to look at it from ) , form a startup company or government regulation ( pick your poison ) to " fix " the problems that have been created .
Have the audio device company executives paid for their " services " by the " fixer " reps/company officials .
You know , to help the company thrive and continue to create devices that people find enjoyable ?
The " fixer " entity ( or entities ) are just out there to help solve problems .
I mean , come on.Wait , why is this reminding me of another country and other instances ?
Oh. OH..... Ohhhh.LOL : &gt;</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I commend the humor!I'll add.
You know, because I have a good sense of humor, as well.Alright, why not leave the situation alone?
Let people play too loudly, irritate others, and/or cause hearing loss.
Once it has been done (whichever angle you want to look at it from), form a startup company or government regulation (pick your poison) to "fix" the problems that have been created.
Have the audio device company executives paid for their "services" by the "fixer" reps/company officials.
You know, to help the company thrive and continue to create devices that people find enjoyable?
The "fixer" entity (or entities) are just out there to help solve problems.
I mean, come on.Wait, why is this reminding me of another country and other instances?
Oh.  OH.....  Ohhhh.LOL :&gt;</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423868</id>
	<title>Re:The problem COULD be elsewhere..</title>
	<author>John Hasler</author>
	<datestamp>1260731940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What genre of music?  It matters.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What genre of music ?
It matters .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What genre of music?
It matters.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422510</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422466</id>
	<title>And how will this work?</title>
	<author>Sycraft-fu</author>
	<datestamp>1260718620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The volume that you get out of phones depends on the voltage sent to the phones, which the volume dial regulates, but also the impedance and sensitivity of the phones, which it can't. So whatever limit you set won't work in all cases. If you limit it to 85dB for ultra efficient phones like the Ultimate Ears UE5s (21 ohms, 119dB/mw) it will be extremely silent on Sennheiser 580s (300 ohms, 97dB/mw). Likewise set the limit on the Sennheisers, and the UEs would still be able to go to extremely excessive volumes.</p><p>This just can't be done. Unless you force players to accept only a certain headphone, you can't limit the output in this manner. The range of headphone is extremely wide. With speakers this is mildly feasible since most speakers are 8 ohms (though there are plenty of 4 ohm ones, and some 12 or higher) and generally in the range of 85-90dB/watt (though there are speakers over 100dB/watt). However with headphones the variation is too much.</p><p>This will do nothing useful.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The volume that you get out of phones depends on the voltage sent to the phones , which the volume dial regulates , but also the impedance and sensitivity of the phones , which it ca n't .
So whatever limit you set wo n't work in all cases .
If you limit it to 85dB for ultra efficient phones like the Ultimate Ears UE5s ( 21 ohms , 119dB/mw ) it will be extremely silent on Sennheiser 580s ( 300 ohms , 97dB/mw ) .
Likewise set the limit on the Sennheisers , and the UEs would still be able to go to extremely excessive volumes.This just ca n't be done .
Unless you force players to accept only a certain headphone , you ca n't limit the output in this manner .
The range of headphone is extremely wide .
With speakers this is mildly feasible since most speakers are 8 ohms ( though there are plenty of 4 ohm ones , and some 12 or higher ) and generally in the range of 85-90dB/watt ( though there are speakers over 100dB/watt ) .
However with headphones the variation is too much.This will do nothing useful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The volume that you get out of phones depends on the voltage sent to the phones, which the volume dial regulates, but also the impedance and sensitivity of the phones, which it can't.
So whatever limit you set won't work in all cases.
If you limit it to 85dB for ultra efficient phones like the Ultimate Ears UE5s (21 ohms, 119dB/mw) it will be extremely silent on Sennheiser 580s (300 ohms, 97dB/mw).
Likewise set the limit on the Sennheisers, and the UEs would still be able to go to extremely excessive volumes.This just can't be done.
Unless you force players to accept only a certain headphone, you can't limit the output in this manner.
The range of headphone is extremely wide.
With speakers this is mildly feasible since most speakers are 8 ohms (though there are plenty of 4 ohm ones, and some 12 or higher) and generally in the range of 85-90dB/watt (though there are speakers over 100dB/watt).
However with headphones the variation is too much.This will do nothing useful.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30429202</id>
	<title>Re:But how to do that?</title>
	<author>rtega</author>
	<datestamp>1260787620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Your statement seems to suggest that you can only get hearing loss above 120 dB. That is not correct. You can get hearing loss beginning from 85 dB. If you are exposed to 8 hours+ a day to 85 dB you can get permanent hearing loss. This lowers dramatically as dB increases. 100dB can give you hearing loss after 15 minutes. 110 dB after 1 minute. 120dB can give hearing loss immediately.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Your statement seems to suggest that you can only get hearing loss above 120 dB .
That is not correct .
You can get hearing loss beginning from 85 dB .
If you are exposed to 8 hours + a day to 85 dB you can get permanent hearing loss .
This lowers dramatically as dB increases .
100dB can give you hearing loss after 15 minutes .
110 dB after 1 minute .
120dB can give hearing loss immediately .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your statement seems to suggest that you can only get hearing loss above 120 dB.
That is not correct.
You can get hearing loss beginning from 85 dB.
If you are exposed to 8 hours+ a day to 85 dB you can get permanent hearing loss.
This lowers dramatically as dB increases.
100dB can give you hearing loss after 15 minutes.
110 dB after 1 minute.
120dB can give hearing loss immediately.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423534</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422876</id>
	<title>volume control</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260722520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've not yet heard of a portable music player that doesn't already have a volume control.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've not yet heard of a portable music player that does n't already have a volume control .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've not yet heard of a portable music player that doesn't already have a volume control.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422544</id>
	<title>EU "experts", my ass</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260719580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh, that's just as I expected. Another show of cluelessness by "think of the children!" bureaucrats.</p><p>Since what is important is the acoustic pressure at the input to your own transducer (at the eardrum), you'd need to put a tiny litte pressure transducer right there to measure it. That would be the only way of protecting your hearing independently of exterior noise and the type of headphones being used.</p><p>There is no way to limit the acoustic pressure without having a way of measuring it, and closing the feedback loop. Even if they'd standardize (read: force on everyone) a standard headphone *electrical* impedance, there's still acoustic impedance between the headphone's transducer and your eardrum. Heck, your own transducer may not be as sensitive as whatever they take to be "standard" (say if you have some hearing loss). Unfortunately all those important details are completely lost on our bureaucrat screamers.</p><p>I wrote a script to play randomized tones at various frequencies through the headphones, just like an audiometer would. Things radically change depending on how far in did I push the headphones, and what headphones I use. By "radically" I mean 30dB of difference between hearing thresholds, easy. I retried that in downtown, and -- as expected -- the results were farther off, still. What that means is that any silly limiting based on *electrical power* delivered to the heardphones will make the music player useless in all but the quietest environments. The idiot who had this clever idea never actually did any experiments/measurements before speaking crap in the public. Dear EU bureaucrat, ahem, expert, sir/madam, you are an idiot. You deserve to be called nothing less.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh , that 's just as I expected .
Another show of cluelessness by " think of the children !
" bureaucrats.Since what is important is the acoustic pressure at the input to your own transducer ( at the eardrum ) , you 'd need to put a tiny litte pressure transducer right there to measure it .
That would be the only way of protecting your hearing independently of exterior noise and the type of headphones being used.There is no way to limit the acoustic pressure without having a way of measuring it , and closing the feedback loop .
Even if they 'd standardize ( read : force on everyone ) a standard headphone * electrical * impedance , there 's still acoustic impedance between the headphone 's transducer and your eardrum .
Heck , your own transducer may not be as sensitive as whatever they take to be " standard " ( say if you have some hearing loss ) .
Unfortunately all those important details are completely lost on our bureaucrat screamers.I wrote a script to play randomized tones at various frequencies through the headphones , just like an audiometer would .
Things radically change depending on how far in did I push the headphones , and what headphones I use .
By " radically " I mean 30dB of difference between hearing thresholds , easy .
I retried that in downtown , and -- as expected -- the results were farther off , still .
What that means is that any silly limiting based on * electrical power * delivered to the heardphones will make the music player useless in all but the quietest environments .
The idiot who had this clever idea never actually did any experiments/measurements before speaking crap in the public .
Dear EU bureaucrat , ahem , expert , sir/madam , you are an idiot .
You deserve to be called nothing less .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh, that's just as I expected.
Another show of cluelessness by "think of the children!
" bureaucrats.Since what is important is the acoustic pressure at the input to your own transducer (at the eardrum), you'd need to put a tiny litte pressure transducer right there to measure it.
That would be the only way of protecting your hearing independently of exterior noise and the type of headphones being used.There is no way to limit the acoustic pressure without having a way of measuring it, and closing the feedback loop.
Even if they'd standardize (read: force on everyone) a standard headphone *electrical* impedance, there's still acoustic impedance between the headphone's transducer and your eardrum.
Heck, your own transducer may not be as sensitive as whatever they take to be "standard" (say if you have some hearing loss).
Unfortunately all those important details are completely lost on our bureaucrat screamers.I wrote a script to play randomized tones at various frequencies through the headphones, just like an audiometer would.
Things radically change depending on how far in did I push the headphones, and what headphones I use.
By "radically" I mean 30dB of difference between hearing thresholds, easy.
I retried that in downtown, and -- as expected -- the results were farther off, still.
What that means is that any silly limiting based on *electrical power* delivered to the heardphones will make the music player useless in all but the quietest environments.
The idiot who had this clever idea never actually did any experiments/measurements before speaking crap in the public.
Dear EU bureaucrat, ahem, expert, sir/madam, you are an idiot.
You deserve to be called nothing less.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30426392</id>
	<title>Re:How about limits on boom cars?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260710100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If a boom car is loud from three blocks away, imagine how loud it is in the car.</p><p>A few days ago, I observed one of these insanely loud boom cars with a 3 year child strapped into the back. Too bad for that kid's hearing.</p></div><p>It depends on the orientation of the speakers and the acoustics in the car. Often the bass is louder outside than inside depending on how it was constructed. Oh, and the treble is more damaging than the bass (at least generally speaking).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If a boom car is loud from three blocks away , imagine how loud it is in the car.A few days ago , I observed one of these insanely loud boom cars with a 3 year child strapped into the back .
Too bad for that kid 's hearing.It depends on the orientation of the speakers and the acoustics in the car .
Often the bass is louder outside than inside depending on how it was constructed .
Oh , and the treble is more damaging than the bass ( at least generally speaking ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If a boom car is loud from three blocks away, imagine how loud it is in the car.A few days ago, I observed one of these insanely loud boom cars with a 3 year child strapped into the back.
Too bad for that kid's hearing.It depends on the orientation of the speakers and the acoustics in the car.
Often the bass is louder outside than inside depending on how it was constructed.
Oh, and the treble is more damaging than the bass (at least generally speaking).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422448</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422942</id>
	<title>Don't forget distance</title>
	<author>Shawn Parr</author>
	<datestamp>1260723000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In addition to all of that (which is totally correct), distance causes drop in sound pressure level at the eardrum as well.  While it may not seem like there is that much of a difference change between old school over the ear headphones versus much newer inside the ear canal type headphones, the entire length of speaker-to-eardrum is short enough it can make a difference of a few dB.</p><p>And with 3dB being half the power, 6 - 10 dB being half the apparent loudness, levels can drop quickly.  The change between headphone styles may only be between 2 - 5 dB due to distance, but added to the effect of impedance and efficiency of the drivers it certainly is a consideration.</p><p>Trying to regulate this at the player level is a joke.  And it would be nearly impossible to try to get every headphone manufacturer in the world to make more consistent efficiency/impedance headphones.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In addition to all of that ( which is totally correct ) , distance causes drop in sound pressure level at the eardrum as well .
While it may not seem like there is that much of a difference change between old school over the ear headphones versus much newer inside the ear canal type headphones , the entire length of speaker-to-eardrum is short enough it can make a difference of a few dB.And with 3dB being half the power , 6 - 10 dB being half the apparent loudness , levels can drop quickly .
The change between headphone styles may only be between 2 - 5 dB due to distance , but added to the effect of impedance and efficiency of the drivers it certainly is a consideration.Trying to regulate this at the player level is a joke .
And it would be nearly impossible to try to get every headphone manufacturer in the world to make more consistent efficiency/impedance headphones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In addition to all of that (which is totally correct), distance causes drop in sound pressure level at the eardrum as well.
While it may not seem like there is that much of a difference change between old school over the ear headphones versus much newer inside the ear canal type headphones, the entire length of speaker-to-eardrum is short enough it can make a difference of a few dB.And with 3dB being half the power, 6 - 10 dB being half the apparent loudness, levels can drop quickly.
The change between headphone styles may only be between 2 - 5 dB due to distance, but added to the effect of impedance and efficiency of the drivers it certainly is a consideration.Trying to regulate this at the player level is a joke.
And it would be nearly impossible to try to get every headphone manufacturer in the world to make more consistent efficiency/impedance headphones.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30429754</id>
	<title>Re:What about the headphones</title>
	<author>TheRaven64</author>
	<datestamp>1260796620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> Nokia phones have had a normal jack for a loooong time. (2001 or so.)</p></div><p>Depends on the phone.  My last phone, an N70 (introduced in 2005), and my current phone, an N80 (introduced in 2006), don't have a normal headphone port, they have a click-port (audio, USB, and a few other things, with a horrible connector design).  The N70 came with some horrible white earbuds with sharp corners that hurt my ears.  The N80 came with some better ones and with an adaptor that let you connect anything with a 3.5mm jack, but neither had a headphone port on the device.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Nokia phones have had a normal jack for a loooong time .
( 2001 or so .
) Depends on the phone .
My last phone , an N70 ( introduced in 2005 ) , and my current phone , an N80 ( introduced in 2006 ) , do n't have a normal headphone port , they have a click-port ( audio , USB , and a few other things , with a horrible connector design ) .
The N70 came with some horrible white earbuds with sharp corners that hurt my ears .
The N80 came with some better ones and with an adaptor that let you connect anything with a 3.5mm jack , but neither had a headphone port on the device .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Nokia phones have had a normal jack for a loooong time.
(2001 or so.
)Depends on the phone.
My last phone, an N70 (introduced in 2005), and my current phone, an N80 (introduced in 2006), don't have a normal headphone port, they have a click-port (audio, USB, and a few other things, with a horrible connector design).
The N70 came with some horrible white earbuds with sharp corners that hurt my ears.
The N80 came with some better ones and with an adaptor that let you connect anything with a 3.5mm jack, but neither had a headphone port on the device.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422660</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30424494</id>
	<title>Re:What can't I f**king decide for myself?</title>
	<author>el3mentary</author>
	<datestamp>1260737580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah but you piss me off on the bus/train/tram you inconsiderate dick. I don't want to hear your music and neither does the rest of the carriage.</p><p>I would support this if only to limit the amount of inconsiderate jerkasses on public transport from imposing their music onto my ears.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah but you piss me off on the bus/train/tram you inconsiderate dick .
I do n't want to hear your music and neither does the rest of the carriage.I would support this if only to limit the amount of inconsiderate jerkasses on public transport from imposing their music onto my ears .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah but you piss me off on the bus/train/tram you inconsiderate dick.
I don't want to hear your music and neither does the rest of the carriage.I would support this if only to limit the amount of inconsiderate jerkasses on public transport from imposing their music onto my ears.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30424058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30424640</id>
	<title>Re:How about limits on boom cars?</title>
	<author>Joce640k</author>
	<datestamp>1260695580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you have boom-car owners as parents then hearing is the least of your problems.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you have boom-car owners as parents then hearing is the least of your problems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you have boom-car owners as parents then hearing is the least of your problems.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422448</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422382</id>
	<title>Wrong approach entirely</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260717780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A technical problem requires a technical solution.</p><p>Instead of forcing media player manufacturers to implement a volume limiter, just force them to include a jamming frequency and allow third parties to sell jammers. When a person feels that someone's music is intruding on their personal space (in a bus, on a train, or anywhere that people are in close contact), a single button press could send a piercing squeal right through whatever audio the earbud guy had playing.</p><p>This has two benefits. First, if there are multiple people around and it is difficult to determine who is listening loudly, this gets all of them in one shot. Second, if a person's earbuds are so loud that the sound is invading someone else's personal space, the brief tone should be enough to put their eardrums out permanently.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A technical problem requires a technical solution.Instead of forcing media player manufacturers to implement a volume limiter , just force them to include a jamming frequency and allow third parties to sell jammers .
When a person feels that someone 's music is intruding on their personal space ( in a bus , on a train , or anywhere that people are in close contact ) , a single button press could send a piercing squeal right through whatever audio the earbud guy had playing.This has two benefits .
First , if there are multiple people around and it is difficult to determine who is listening loudly , this gets all of them in one shot .
Second , if a person 's earbuds are so loud that the sound is invading someone else 's personal space , the brief tone should be enough to put their eardrums out permanently .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A technical problem requires a technical solution.Instead of forcing media player manufacturers to implement a volume limiter, just force them to include a jamming frequency and allow third parties to sell jammers.
When a person feels that someone's music is intruding on their personal space (in a bus, on a train, or anywhere that people are in close contact), a single button press could send a piercing squeal right through whatever audio the earbud guy had playing.This has two benefits.
First, if there are multiple people around and it is difficult to determine who is listening loudly, this gets all of them in one shot.
Second, if a person's earbuds are so loud that the sound is invading someone else's personal space, the brief tone should be enough to put their eardrums out permanently.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422780</id>
	<title>Re:Wish they would regulate TV channels first.</title>
	<author>icebraining</author>
	<datestamp>1260721740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.cnycentral.com/entertainment/story.aspx?id=314118" title="cnycentral.com">http://www.cnycentral.com/entertainment/story.aspx?id=314118</a> [cnycentral.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.cnycentral.com/entertainment/story.aspx ? id = 314118 [ cnycentral.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.cnycentral.com/entertainment/story.aspx?id=314118 [cnycentral.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422454</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30426768</id>
	<title>please help me!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260713520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thank god the government is here to save me from myself! Yay government!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thank god the government is here to save me from myself !
Yay government !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thank god the government is here to save me from myself!
Yay government!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30424664</id>
	<title>Re:Wish they would regulate TV channels first.</title>
	<author>Joce640k</author>
	<datestamp>1260695760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's called audio compression and technically it's not a change in volume.</p><p>Instead of fiddling with the levl, just hit mute.</p><p>Or even better, stop watching it. BitTorrent has it all without adverts.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's called audio compression and technically it 's not a change in volume.Instead of fiddling with the levl , just hit mute.Or even better , stop watching it .
BitTorrent has it all without adverts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's called audio compression and technically it's not a change in volume.Instead of fiddling with the levl, just hit mute.Or even better, stop watching it.
BitTorrent has it all without adverts.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422454</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423136</id>
	<title>Smoking?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260725280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What about smoking? Much more hazardous, and also hazardous to the people around the smoker. Do something about that first!</p><p>Second, it would be nice if any loudness is limited, that there should also be a lower minimum loudness, because most of the players that I tried are way too loud when you are in a quiet room.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What about smoking ?
Much more hazardous , and also hazardous to the people around the smoker .
Do something about that first ! Second , it would be nice if any loudness is limited , that there should also be a lower minimum loudness , because most of the players that I tried are way too loud when you are in a quiet room .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What about smoking?
Much more hazardous, and also hazardous to the people around the smoker.
Do something about that first!Second, it would be nice if any loudness is limited, that there should also be a lower minimum loudness, because most of the players that I tried are way too loud when you are in a quiet room.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30423534</id>
	<title>Re:But how to do that?</title>
	<author>areusche</author>
	<datestamp>1260729120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>All in all that doesn't matter. This is just another example of ignorant politicians. As a sound designer these dB SPL levels are USELESS with a reference point. 85 dB SPL at 10 meters from a source is a busy room, while 60-65 dB is general room noise. Also 120 dB SPL is the threshold of pain. At or above that our body starts to respond by desensitizing and tinnitius.

In incremental doses our body adapts to loud sounds. Limiting headphone output is a farce and manufactures should focus on limiting outside interference. Never use ear buds.</htmltext>
<tokenext>All in all that does n't matter .
This is just another example of ignorant politicians .
As a sound designer these dB SPL levels are USELESS with a reference point .
85 dB SPL at 10 meters from a source is a busy room , while 60-65 dB is general room noise .
Also 120 dB SPL is the threshold of pain .
At or above that our body starts to respond by desensitizing and tinnitius .
In incremental doses our body adapts to loud sounds .
Limiting headphone output is a farce and manufactures should focus on limiting outside interference .
Never use ear buds .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All in all that doesn't matter.
This is just another example of ignorant politicians.
As a sound designer these dB SPL levels are USELESS with a reference point.
85 dB SPL at 10 meters from a source is a busy room, while 60-65 dB is general room noise.
Also 120 dB SPL is the threshold of pain.
At or above that our body starts to respond by desensitizing and tinnitius.
In incremental doses our body adapts to loud sounds.
Limiting headphone output is a farce and manufactures should focus on limiting outside interference.
Never use ear buds.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1346221.30422356</parent>
</comment>
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