<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_12_12_0037206</id>
	<title>Sci-Fi Author Peter Watts Beaten, Charged During Border Crossing</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1260622200000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>JoeGee writes <i>"On December 8th, Canadian sci-fi author <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter\_Watts">Peter Watts</a>, author of the <em>Rifters</em> trilogy and <em>Blindsight</em>, was crossing the US/Canadian border at Port Huron, Michigan when he was <a href="http://io9.com/5424502/sf-writer-peter-watts-arrested-beaten-at-us+canadian-border">involved in an altercation with US Border Patrol agents</a>.  According to Watts, he was <a href="http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=932">beaten, left half-naked in a cold cell, and finally dumped on the Canadian side of the border with no coat</a>.  A legal consultant from the Electronic Frontier Foundation was successful in <a href="http://www.boingboing.net/2009/12/11/dr-peter-watts-canad.html">helping a civil rights lawyer in Michigan free Watts</a>.  Watts faces US charges of assaulting a federal officer.  Based on the accounts, one can assume Watts did so by hitting the officer's hand with his face.  If convicted, Watts faces two years in a US Federal prison."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>JoeGee writes " On December 8th , Canadian sci-fi author Peter Watts , author of the Rifters trilogy and Blindsight , was crossing the US/Canadian border at Port Huron , Michigan when he was involved in an altercation with US Border Patrol agents .
According to Watts , he was beaten , left half-naked in a cold cell , and finally dumped on the Canadian side of the border with no coat .
A legal consultant from the Electronic Frontier Foundation was successful in helping a civil rights lawyer in Michigan free Watts .
Watts faces US charges of assaulting a federal officer .
Based on the accounts , one can assume Watts did so by hitting the officer 's hand with his face .
If convicted , Watts faces two years in a US Federal prison .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>JoeGee writes "On December 8th, Canadian sci-fi author Peter Watts, author of the Rifters trilogy and Blindsight, was crossing the US/Canadian border at Port Huron, Michigan when he was involved in an altercation with US Border Patrol agents.
According to Watts, he was beaten, left half-naked in a cold cell, and finally dumped on the Canadian side of the border with no coat.
A legal consultant from the Electronic Frontier Foundation was successful in helping a civil rights lawyer in Michigan free Watts.
Watts faces US charges of assaulting a federal officer.
Based on the accounts, one can assume Watts did so by hitting the officer's hand with his face.
If convicted, Watts faces two years in a US Federal prison.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409676</id>
	<title>Wrong Order</title>
	<author>MaizeMan</author>
	<datestamp>1260542460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well they got the order wrong. For resisting arrest it's 1. arrest 2. beat. For an assaulting an officer change they apparently beat you first, then arrest you. <br> <br>

(I defy anyone to take a severe beating without doing SOMETHING that, out of context, could be described as assaulting an officer.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well they got the order wrong .
For resisting arrest it 's 1. arrest 2. beat. For an assaulting an officer change they apparently beat you first , then arrest you .
( I defy anyone to take a severe beating without doing SOMETHING that , out of context , could be described as assaulting an officer .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well they got the order wrong.
For resisting arrest it's 1. arrest 2. beat. For an assaulting an officer change they apparently beat you first, then arrest you.
(I defy anyone to take a severe beating without doing SOMETHING that, out of context, could be described as assaulting an officer.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409230</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30425672</id>
	<title>Gun pointed at my head.</title>
	<author>ClintJCL</author>
	<datestamp>1260703260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I tried to stop and ask an officer for directions, while driving. I ended up with a gun pointed at my head for 43,000 eternities. Here I was, my first day to work, a white guy in khakis. All hail america, land of the free. Except that we have the highest prison population both per capita and in absolute numbers... in the whole world.<p>

Anyone know a good country in South America to emigrate to?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I tried to stop and ask an officer for directions , while driving .
I ended up with a gun pointed at my head for 43,000 eternities .
Here I was , my first day to work , a white guy in khakis .
All hail america , land of the free .
Except that we have the highest prison population both per capita and in absolute numbers... in the whole world .
Anyone know a good country in South America to emigrate to ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I tried to stop and ask an officer for directions, while driving.
I ended up with a gun pointed at my head for 43,000 eternities.
Here I was, my first day to work, a white guy in khakis.
All hail america, land of the free.
Except that we have the highest prison population both per capita and in absolute numbers... in the whole world.
Anyone know a good country in South America to emigrate to?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409686</id>
	<title>Re:Always the same story...</title>
	<author>Timothy Brownawell</author>
	<datestamp>1260542520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If you talk back, disobey orders and give them a hard time, crap like this will most likely happen to you because</p> </div><p>...those who rule by fear have a tendency to be paranoid?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you talk back , disobey orders and give them a hard time , crap like this will most likely happen to you because ...those who rule by fear have a tendency to be paranoid ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you talk back, disobey orders and give them a hard time, crap like this will most likely happen to you because ...those who rule by fear have a tendency to be paranoid?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409372</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410296</id>
	<title>Maybe Peter Watts is an asshole.</title>
	<author>i\_want\_you\_to\_throw\_</author>
	<datestamp>1260547380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Seriously, I know that it's kneejerk to assume that cops are wrong. Generally all you have to do at customs is answer questions and get on with it. No one gets beaten up without at least some plausible reason. That's like 3rd graders complaining that they got a bad grade because the teacher doesn't like them. Considering that simplest answer is probably the one that's correct, Peter Watts was probably an asshole and got what he deserved. Of course when it's some uber nerd all you<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. pussies get your panties twisted because there's no WAY he could have deserved it.
<br> <br>
Mod me down now bitches but you know I'm right.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously , I know that it 's kneejerk to assume that cops are wrong .
Generally all you have to do at customs is answer questions and get on with it .
No one gets beaten up without at least some plausible reason .
That 's like 3rd graders complaining that they got a bad grade because the teacher does n't like them .
Considering that simplest answer is probably the one that 's correct , Peter Watts was probably an asshole and got what he deserved .
Of course when it 's some uber nerd all you / .
pussies get your panties twisted because there 's no WAY he could have deserved it .
Mod me down now bitches but you know I 'm right .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously, I know that it's kneejerk to assume that cops are wrong.
Generally all you have to do at customs is answer questions and get on with it.
No one gets beaten up without at least some plausible reason.
That's like 3rd graders complaining that they got a bad grade because the teacher doesn't like them.
Considering that simplest answer is probably the one that's correct, Peter Watts was probably an asshole and got what he deserved.
Of course when it's some uber nerd all you /.
pussies get your panties twisted because there's no WAY he could have deserved it.
Mod me down now bitches but you know I'm right.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30417438</id>
	<title>Re:Charges...</title>
	<author>hey!</author>
	<datestamp>1260614100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Important point: Arrest is not tantamount to an accusation. It is an assertion that there is a legitimate public justification to keep you from going about your business for a limited time.  For example if you are having a psychotic episode you can be detained for your own protection and to safeguard others.</p><p>At the border there's all kinds of legitimate reasons to detain people entering the country that don't imply criminal charges ought to be filed.  That's not a license for abuse or indefinite detention of course but at present I'd be skeptical of both sides. Obviously at least one person was out of line, but that doesn't preclude both being out of line.  The one thing you can be sure of is that both will claim to have been perfectly reasonable while the other was being a lunatic.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Important point : Arrest is not tantamount to an accusation .
It is an assertion that there is a legitimate public justification to keep you from going about your business for a limited time .
For example if you are having a psychotic episode you can be detained for your own protection and to safeguard others.At the border there 's all kinds of legitimate reasons to detain people entering the country that do n't imply criminal charges ought to be filed .
That 's not a license for abuse or indefinite detention of course but at present I 'd be skeptical of both sides .
Obviously at least one person was out of line , but that does n't preclude both being out of line .
The one thing you can be sure of is that both will claim to have been perfectly reasonable while the other was being a lunatic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Important point: Arrest is not tantamount to an accusation.
It is an assertion that there is a legitimate public justification to keep you from going about your business for a limited time.
For example if you are having a psychotic episode you can be detained for your own protection and to safeguard others.At the border there's all kinds of legitimate reasons to detain people entering the country that don't imply criminal charges ought to be filed.
That's not a license for abuse or indefinite detention of course but at present I'd be skeptical of both sides.
Obviously at least one person was out of line, but that doesn't preclude both being out of line.
The one thing you can be sure of is that both will claim to have been perfectly reasonable while the other was being a lunatic.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409294</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410768</id>
	<title>Re:.. and this is why tourism is down...</title>
	<author>corbettw</author>
	<datestamp>1260551100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm giving up the moderation I've done in this thread to respond to this.</p><p>Obama has been in office for almost a year. If you still think he's going to do anything whatsoever to roll back Bush's encroachments on civil liberties, I have a bridge in Windsor-Detroit to sell you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm giving up the moderation I 've done in this thread to respond to this.Obama has been in office for almost a year .
If you still think he 's going to do anything whatsoever to roll back Bush 's encroachments on civil liberties , I have a bridge in Windsor-Detroit to sell you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm giving up the moderation I've done in this thread to respond to this.Obama has been in office for almost a year.
If you still think he's going to do anything whatsoever to roll back Bush's encroachments on civil liberties, I have a bridge in Windsor-Detroit to sell you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30415786</id>
	<title>Re:.. and this is why tourism is down...</title>
	<author>TheSync</author>
	<datestamp>1260645840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Overly officious US border agents, the "Guantanamo halo effect" (ie. there is no rule of law)and the general unfriendliness at the border have caused me to cease visiting the US.</i></p><p>Heck, I'm form the US, and I hate coming back through our immigration and customs!  It tends to be disorganized, the officers are nasty, yelling, questioning disbelievingly.</p><p>I just spent over an hour in immigration/customs at LAX coming back from outside the US.  Meanwhile, if I land in the Netherlands, they look at my passport for 30 seconds and wave me through!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Overly officious US border agents , the " Guantanamo halo effect " ( ie .
there is no rule of law ) and the general unfriendliness at the border have caused me to cease visiting the US.Heck , I 'm form the US , and I hate coming back through our immigration and customs !
It tends to be disorganized , the officers are nasty , yelling , questioning disbelievingly.I just spent over an hour in immigration/customs at LAX coming back from outside the US .
Meanwhile , if I land in the Netherlands , they look at my passport for 30 seconds and wave me through !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Overly officious US border agents, the "Guantanamo halo effect" (ie.
there is no rule of law)and the general unfriendliness at the border have caused me to cease visiting the US.Heck, I'm form the US, and I hate coming back through our immigration and customs!
It tends to be disorganized, the officers are nasty, yelling, questioning disbelievingly.I just spent over an hour in immigration/customs at LAX coming back from outside the US.
Meanwhile, if I land in the Netherlands, they look at my passport for 30 seconds and wave me through!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410340</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>sarhjinian</author>
	<datestamp>1260547740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Take a look at a map of North America, we share a huge boarder</p></div></blockquote><p>Yeah, and he's late with his rent every week.</p><p>On a serious note, most Americans who live in (solidly blue or red) border states would agree with you.  Its the swing-state yokels in the centre of the country who are afraid of terrorists from outside Fortress America bombing their cornfields who vote for this kind of stuff, and is further enabled by the "We Hate Wetbacks Society" that forgets Canada exists when developing a border policy that concerns itself with Mexico alone.</p><p>Incidentally, this is a view shared by people who ought to know better.  Such as the erstwhile Secretary for Homeland Security, who was under the impression that the 9/11 perpetrators came from Canada.</p><p>Truthfully, most of the harassment at the American border is due to Canada's somewhat more "What, me worry?" drug policy, especially surrounding marijuana and methamphetamines.  In turn, of course, Canada confiscates an awful lot of guns, mostly from truckers who don't seem to understand that in a civilized nation they don't need a sawed-off shotgun to defend themselves from road pirates.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Take a look at a map of North America , we share a huge boarderYeah , and he 's late with his rent every week.On a serious note , most Americans who live in ( solidly blue or red ) border states would agree with you .
Its the swing-state yokels in the centre of the country who are afraid of terrorists from outside Fortress America bombing their cornfields who vote for this kind of stuff , and is further enabled by the " We Hate Wetbacks Society " that forgets Canada exists when developing a border policy that concerns itself with Mexico alone.Incidentally , this is a view shared by people who ought to know better .
Such as the erstwhile Secretary for Homeland Security , who was under the impression that the 9/11 perpetrators came from Canada.Truthfully , most of the harassment at the American border is due to Canada 's somewhat more " What , me worry ?
" drug policy , especially surrounding marijuana and methamphetamines .
In turn , of course , Canada confiscates an awful lot of guns , mostly from truckers who do n't seem to understand that in a civilized nation they do n't need a sawed-off shotgun to defend themselves from road pirates .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Take a look at a map of North America, we share a huge boarderYeah, and he's late with his rent every week.On a serious note, most Americans who live in (solidly blue or red) border states would agree with you.
Its the swing-state yokels in the centre of the country who are afraid of terrorists from outside Fortress America bombing their cornfields who vote for this kind of stuff, and is further enabled by the "We Hate Wetbacks Society" that forgets Canada exists when developing a border policy that concerns itself with Mexico alone.Incidentally, this is a view shared by people who ought to know better.
Such as the erstwhile Secretary for Homeland Security, who was under the impression that the 9/11 perpetrators came from Canada.Truthfully, most of the harassment at the American border is due to Canada's somewhat more "What, me worry?
" drug policy, especially surrounding marijuana and methamphetamines.
In turn, of course, Canada confiscates an awful lot of guns, mostly from truckers who don't seem to understand that in a civilized nation they don't need a sawed-off shotgun to defend themselves from road pirates.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30415246</id>
	<title>How cliche</title>
	<author>SlappyBastard</author>
	<datestamp>1260642780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Nerd gets beaten.  Idiots doing the beating (some of those guys on the Canadian border are really bored and stupid - I've known a couple).</htmltext>
<tokenext>Nerd gets beaten .
Idiots doing the beating ( some of those guys on the Canadian border are really bored and stupid - I 've known a couple ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nerd gets beaten.
Idiots doing the beating (some of those guys on the Canadian border are really bored and stupid - I've known a couple).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409260</id>
	<title>Re:Put him away...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260539700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>most federal officers should be beaten. you should probably have the shit kicked out of you too</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>most federal officers should be beaten .
you should probably have the shit kicked out of you too</tokentext>
<sentencetext>most federal officers should be beaten.
you should probably have the shit kicked out of you too</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411158</id>
	<title>Re:Reason for Charge</title>
	<author>DerekLyons</author>
	<datestamp>1260554760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Sounds like the unfortunate combination of a pissed off officer and a less-that-sympathetic citizen compounded by detectives/officers who get pissed when prisoners refuse to talk.</p></div></blockquote><p>It sounds nothing like that - because that's not what your summary describes.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds like the unfortunate combination of a pissed off officer and a less-that-sympathetic citizen compounded by detectives/officers who get pissed when prisoners refuse to talk.It sounds nothing like that - because that 's not what your summary describes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds like the unfortunate combination of a pissed off officer and a less-that-sympathetic citizen compounded by detectives/officers who get pissed when prisoners refuse to talk.It sounds nothing like that - because that's not what your summary describes.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409406</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30415160</id>
	<title>Re:Let's not leap to conclusions.</title>
	<author>rochrist</author>
	<datestamp>1260642240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Maybe you should lie down, roll over and see if they'll scratch your tummy too?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe you should lie down , roll over and see if they 'll scratch your tummy too ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe you should lie down, roll over and see if they'll scratch your tummy too?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409572</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410682</id>
	<title>Re:Always the same story...</title>
	<author>syousef</author>
	<datestamp>1260550440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>If you talk back, disobey orders and give them a hard time, crap like this will most likely happen to you because you escalate the situation and make the lives of people who already have miserable jobs more miserable. That's not an excuse, but don't be surprised when stuff like this happens.</i></p><p>I see you're doing a wonderful job protecting your image as the land of the free there.</p><p>Land of the scared, more like. Every fucking time I see a post like this I wonder what happened the USA of the 80s and how the fuck did you let a bunch of ass backward goat herding religious imbeciles assist your own country's corrupt fuggknuckles into turning your country into a parody of justice and freedom?</p><p>I'd be thanking my stars I don't live there except everything your country does ours tries to emulate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you talk back , disobey orders and give them a hard time , crap like this will most likely happen to you because you escalate the situation and make the lives of people who already have miserable jobs more miserable .
That 's not an excuse , but do n't be surprised when stuff like this happens.I see you 're doing a wonderful job protecting your image as the land of the free there.Land of the scared , more like .
Every fucking time I see a post like this I wonder what happened the USA of the 80s and how the fuck did you let a bunch of ass backward goat herding religious imbeciles assist your own country 's corrupt fuggknuckles into turning your country into a parody of justice and freedom ? I 'd be thanking my stars I do n't live there except everything your country does ours tries to emulate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you talk back, disobey orders and give them a hard time, crap like this will most likely happen to you because you escalate the situation and make the lives of people who already have miserable jobs more miserable.
That's not an excuse, but don't be surprised when stuff like this happens.I see you're doing a wonderful job protecting your image as the land of the free there.Land of the scared, more like.
Every fucking time I see a post like this I wonder what happened the USA of the 80s and how the fuck did you let a bunch of ass backward goat herding religious imbeciles assist your own country's corrupt fuggknuckles into turning your country into a parody of justice and freedom?I'd be thanking my stars I don't live there except everything your country does ours tries to emulate.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409372</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30416658</id>
	<title>Really?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260608820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a fellow biology Ph.D., I'll remain skeptical of his story until I hear all sides.  Those who donate large sums of money based on a one paragraph blog post are gullible at best.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a fellow biology Ph.D. , I 'll remain skeptical of his story until I hear all sides .
Those who donate large sums of money based on a one paragraph blog post are gullible at best .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a fellow biology Ph.D., I'll remain skeptical of his story until I hear all sides.
Those who donate large sums of money based on a one paragraph blog post are gullible at best.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409804</id>
	<title>Re:Always the same story...</title>
	<author>node 3</author>
	<datestamp>1260543240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If you talk back, disobey orders and give them a hard time, crap like this will most likely happen to you because you escalate the situation and make the lives of people who already have miserable jobs more miserable. That's not an excuse, but don't be surprised when stuff like this happens.</p></div><p>But saying, "don't be surprised when stuff like this happens" *IS* an excuse.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you talk back , disobey orders and give them a hard time , crap like this will most likely happen to you because you escalate the situation and make the lives of people who already have miserable jobs more miserable .
That 's not an excuse , but do n't be surprised when stuff like this happens.But saying , " do n't be surprised when stuff like this happens " * IS * an excuse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you talk back, disobey orders and give them a hard time, crap like this will most likely happen to you because you escalate the situation and make the lives of people who already have miserable jobs more miserable.
That's not an excuse, but don't be surprised when stuff like this happens.But saying, "don't be surprised when stuff like this happens" *IS* an excuse.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409372</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411292</id>
	<title>Re:I'm entirely inclined to believe Watts</title>
	<author>CodeBuster</author>
	<datestamp>1260556080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I've honestly had better and more pleasant experiences with the East German border patrol in the mid-80s.</p></div><p>That was probably due to the fact that western tourists and family visitors were a major source of hard currency for the former East Germany. In fact, you may recall that it was <i>mandatory</i> to exchange a certain amount of deutschemarks or other western monies into convertible 'ost marks' on each entry. The border guards were probably ordered to be nice to western tourists in order to encourage repeat visits and more currency exchange opportunities.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've honestly had better and more pleasant experiences with the East German border patrol in the mid-80s.That was probably due to the fact that western tourists and family visitors were a major source of hard currency for the former East Germany .
In fact , you may recall that it was mandatory to exchange a certain amount of deutschemarks or other western monies into convertible 'ost marks ' on each entry .
The border guards were probably ordered to be nice to western tourists in order to encourage repeat visits and more currency exchange opportunities .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've honestly had better and more pleasant experiences with the East German border patrol in the mid-80s.That was probably due to the fact that western tourists and family visitors were a major source of hard currency for the former East Germany.
In fact, you may recall that it was mandatory to exchange a certain amount of deutschemarks or other western monies into convertible 'ost marks' on each entry.
The border guards were probably ordered to be nice to western tourists in order to encourage repeat visits and more currency exchange opportunities.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410052</id>
	<title>If he's smart...</title>
	<author>rahvin112</author>
	<datestamp>1260544980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If he's smart, his lawyer has subpoenaed the surveillance camera footage before it's miraculously "lost". If they claim there isn't footage I'd have someone out there photographing the camera that was pointed where he was at when the incident took place cause I guarantee there was a camera recording the incident, they have camera's all over those places and half of them are hidden/non obvious.</p><p>The other thing I would do is take out ad's on both sides of the border in the paper asking for witnesses to come forward. If his account is correct he shouldn't have a problem beating the charges provided they can locate a witness or video, and with them he's got a slam dunk civil rights suit against DOHS. I'd also take out a civil suit against the border guards directly that the government will be forced to defend, and if not you get the pleasure of going after their personal assets as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If he 's smart , his lawyer has subpoenaed the surveillance camera footage before it 's miraculously " lost " .
If they claim there is n't footage I 'd have someone out there photographing the camera that was pointed where he was at when the incident took place cause I guarantee there was a camera recording the incident , they have camera 's all over those places and half of them are hidden/non obvious.The other thing I would do is take out ad 's on both sides of the border in the paper asking for witnesses to come forward .
If his account is correct he should n't have a problem beating the charges provided they can locate a witness or video , and with them he 's got a slam dunk civil rights suit against DOHS .
I 'd also take out a civil suit against the border guards directly that the government will be forced to defend , and if not you get the pleasure of going after their personal assets as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If he's smart, his lawyer has subpoenaed the surveillance camera footage before it's miraculously "lost".
If they claim there isn't footage I'd have someone out there photographing the camera that was pointed where he was at when the incident took place cause I guarantee there was a camera recording the incident, they have camera's all over those places and half of them are hidden/non obvious.The other thing I would do is take out ad's on both sides of the border in the paper asking for witnesses to come forward.
If his account is correct he shouldn't have a problem beating the charges provided they can locate a witness or video, and with them he's got a slam dunk civil rights suit against DOHS.
I'd also take out a civil suit against the border guards directly that the government will be forced to defend, and if not you get the pleasure of going after their personal assets as well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409966</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260544440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Didn't they catch a terrorist at Port Angeles WA back in 1999?</p><p>I think the U.S. - Canada border should be open and border guards do more harm than good, but every once in a while they get lucky and catch an some idiot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did n't they catch a terrorist at Port Angeles WA back in 1999 ? I think the U.S. - Canada border should be open and border guards do more harm than good , but every once in a while they get lucky and catch an some idiot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Didn't they catch a terrorist at Port Angeles WA back in 1999?I think the U.S. - Canada border should be open and border guards do more harm than good, but every once in a while they get lucky and catch an some idiot.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409962</id>
	<title>Re:This guy writes fiction for a living</title>
	<author>pixelfish</author>
	<datestamp>1260544440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Poisoning the well fallacy! He writes fiction, so clearly you can't actually expect him to tell the truth about anything. You and the guy upthread perpetuating the "all geeks are self-important obsessed losers" generalisation should get together.</p><p>Nice to call for facts while using unsupported generalisations as your banner.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Poisoning the well fallacy !
He writes fiction , so clearly you ca n't actually expect him to tell the truth about anything .
You and the guy upthread perpetuating the " all geeks are self-important obsessed losers " generalisation should get together.Nice to call for facts while using unsupported generalisations as your banner .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Poisoning the well fallacy!
He writes fiction, so clearly you can't actually expect him to tell the truth about anything.
You and the guy upthread perpetuating the "all geeks are self-important obsessed losers" generalisation should get together.Nice to call for facts while using unsupported generalisations as your banner.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409380</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410374</id>
	<title>Re:Always the same story...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260547920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Look guys, this is the same story we hear over and over again.  First we need to hear the side of the border guards; secondly, always assume that government officials are assholes.  Do what they ask, obey their orders, don't be a smartass - as a result, you will generally speaking be OK.</p><p>If you talk back, disobey orders and give them a hard time, crap like this will most likely happen to you because you escalate the situation and make the lives of people who already have miserable jobs more miserable.  That's not an excuse, but don't be surprised when stuff like this happens.</p></div><p>Well, then you'll get exactly the country you deserve.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Look guys , this is the same story we hear over and over again .
First we need to hear the side of the border guards ; secondly , always assume that government officials are assholes .
Do what they ask , obey their orders , do n't be a smartass - as a result , you will generally speaking be OK.If you talk back , disobey orders and give them a hard time , crap like this will most likely happen to you because you escalate the situation and make the lives of people who already have miserable jobs more miserable .
That 's not an excuse , but do n't be surprised when stuff like this happens.Well , then you 'll get exactly the country you deserve .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look guys, this is the same story we hear over and over again.
First we need to hear the side of the border guards; secondly, always assume that government officials are assholes.
Do what they ask, obey their orders, don't be a smartass - as a result, you will generally speaking be OK.If you talk back, disobey orders and give them a hard time, crap like this will most likely happen to you because you escalate the situation and make the lives of people who already have miserable jobs more miserable.
That's not an excuse, but don't be surprised when stuff like this happens.Well, then you'll get exactly the country you deserve.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409372</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411246</id>
	<title>First, I want to see the video.</title>
	<author>NerveGas</author>
	<datestamp>1260555720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"My baby didn't do nuffin!" or "But I wasn't doin' nuffin!" are all too common.  Nobody says "Oh, yeah, I really deserved that."</p><p>"He was just asking them questions" can just as well be "He ignored thirty seven requests to get back in his car, and ten additional warnings."</p><p>Before I jumped to any conclusions... I would want to know what <i>really</i> happened.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" My baby did n't do nuffin !
" or " But I was n't doin ' nuffin !
" are all too common .
Nobody says " Oh , yeah , I really deserved that .
" " He was just asking them questions " can just as well be " He ignored thirty seven requests to get back in his car , and ten additional warnings .
" Before I jumped to any conclusions... I would want to know what really happened .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"My baby didn't do nuffin!
" or "But I wasn't doin' nuffin!
" are all too common.
Nobody says "Oh, yeah, I really deserved that.
""He was just asking them questions" can just as well be "He ignored thirty seven requests to get back in his car, and ten additional warnings.
"Before I jumped to any conclusions... I would want to know what really happened.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410968</id>
	<title>Re:I'm entirely inclined to believe Watts</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260552420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have crossed the U.S. - Canadian border 5 days per week (at a Michigan crossing) for the last 12 years.  I have never had a problem other than the occasional rude or overzealous border guard and to be honest, that has mostly been on the Canadian side (I am Canadian).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have crossed the U.S. - Canadian border 5 days per week ( at a Michigan crossing ) for the last 12 years .
I have never had a problem other than the occasional rude or overzealous border guard and to be honest , that has mostly been on the Canadian side ( I am Canadian ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have crossed the U.S. - Canadian border 5 days per week (at a Michigan crossing) for the last 12 years.
I have never had a problem other than the occasional rude or overzealous border guard and to be honest, that has mostly been on the Canadian side (I am Canadian).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30413256</id>
	<title>Re:Something stinks here...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260627000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>Getting out of the car uninvited is an aggressive act</p></div><p>Sorry, <b>getting out of a car</b> is an aggressive act?!?!</p></div><p>Yes, it is in the US. A 69 year old friend of my father was visiting the US last year. When he was stopped in Georgia, he got out of the car. In Australia, it's standard to get out of the car, and meet the police with your hands visible. In the US, both officers screamed something he didn't catch, one of them pulled his gun, while the other tasered my father's friend unconscious.</p><p>When he recovered consciousness, the police chief explained to him that in the US you grip the steering wheel at the top with both hands, you do not speak unless spoken to, and when the police ask to see your license, you reach up with *one* hand to remove it from the clip on the visor. If your license is kept anywhere else you will be charged with driving without a license. If you move in *any* other way without being directed by a police officer, you will be charged with assaulting a police officer. If you say anything uninvited, you may be arrested and taken back to the police station for further questioning.</p><p>Because by this time his flight back to Australia was leaving in 4 hours, all the charges against my father's friend were dropped, but he was warned to learn how to conduct himself in the US if he ever returned, as he could have been facing up to a year in a US jail before being deported back to Australia, and barred from ever entering the US again as a convicted felon.</p><p>He's not the only person I know of who got into trouble with US police for not following the script. That's why all my US friends have been told to come here to visit me. Combine the US authoritarian demand for respect with my Australian disregard for authority, and I suspect I'd be lucky to get out of your country alive.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Getting out of the car uninvited is an aggressive actSorry , getting out of a car is an aggressive act ? ! ?
! Yes , it is in the US .
A 69 year old friend of my father was visiting the US last year .
When he was stopped in Georgia , he got out of the car .
In Australia , it 's standard to get out of the car , and meet the police with your hands visible .
In the US , both officers screamed something he did n't catch , one of them pulled his gun , while the other tasered my father 's friend unconscious.When he recovered consciousness , the police chief explained to him that in the US you grip the steering wheel at the top with both hands , you do not speak unless spoken to , and when the police ask to see your license , you reach up with * one * hand to remove it from the clip on the visor .
If your license is kept anywhere else you will be charged with driving without a license .
If you move in * any * other way without being directed by a police officer , you will be charged with assaulting a police officer .
If you say anything uninvited , you may be arrested and taken back to the police station for further questioning.Because by this time his flight back to Australia was leaving in 4 hours , all the charges against my father 's friend were dropped , but he was warned to learn how to conduct himself in the US if he ever returned , as he could have been facing up to a year in a US jail before being deported back to Australia , and barred from ever entering the US again as a convicted felon.He 's not the only person I know of who got into trouble with US police for not following the script .
That 's why all my US friends have been told to come here to visit me .
Combine the US authoritarian demand for respect with my Australian disregard for authority , and I suspect I 'd be lucky to get out of your country alive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Getting out of the car uninvited is an aggressive actSorry, getting out of a car is an aggressive act?!?
!Yes, it is in the US.
A 69 year old friend of my father was visiting the US last year.
When he was stopped in Georgia, he got out of the car.
In Australia, it's standard to get out of the car, and meet the police with your hands visible.
In the US, both officers screamed something he didn't catch, one of them pulled his gun, while the other tasered my father's friend unconscious.When he recovered consciousness, the police chief explained to him that in the US you grip the steering wheel at the top with both hands, you do not speak unless spoken to, and when the police ask to see your license, you reach up with *one* hand to remove it from the clip on the visor.
If your license is kept anywhere else you will be charged with driving without a license.
If you move in *any* other way without being directed by a police officer, you will be charged with assaulting a police officer.
If you say anything uninvited, you may be arrested and taken back to the police station for further questioning.Because by this time his flight back to Australia was leaving in 4 hours, all the charges against my father's friend were dropped, but he was warned to learn how to conduct himself in the US if he ever returned, as he could have been facing up to a year in a US jail before being deported back to Australia, and barred from ever entering the US again as a convicted felon.He's not the only person I know of who got into trouble with US police for not following the script.
That's why all my US friends have been told to come here to visit me.
Combine the US authoritarian demand for respect with my Australian disregard for authority, and I suspect I'd be lucky to get out of your country alive.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409506</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409294</id>
	<title>Re:Charges...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260539940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I love it (sarcastically) when I hear a guy's only crime was resisting arrest. On what basis was the arrest being made in the first place? Resisting arrest, of course!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I love it ( sarcastically ) when I hear a guy 's only crime was resisting arrest .
On what basis was the arrest being made in the first place ?
Resisting arrest , of course !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I love it (sarcastically) when I hear a guy's only crime was resisting arrest.
On what basis was the arrest being made in the first place?
Resisting arrest, of course!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409230</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409648</id>
	<title>Re:Let's not leap to conclusions.</title>
	<author>node 3</author>
	<datestamp>1260542340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is your sig meant to be ironic?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>[post in favor of beating someone for getting out of his car, asking a question, then not getting back into his car]<br>--<br><i>Revive the Constitution</i></p> </div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is your sig meant to be ironic ?
[ post in favor of beating someone for getting out of his car , asking a question , then not getting back into his car ] --Revive the Constitution</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is your sig meant to be ironic?
[post in favor of beating someone for getting out of his car, asking a question, then not getting back into his car]--Revive the Constitution 
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409658</id>
	<title>Hey...</title>
	<author>aka\_butters</author>
	<datestamp>1260542400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I live in Port Huron, funny to see that as the head line today...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I live in Port Huron , funny to see that as the head line today.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I live in Port Huron, funny to see that as the head line today...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409714</id>
	<title>US Border Security when LEAVING US?</title>
	<author>FrozenGeek</author>
	<datestamp>1260542760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've travelled between Canada and the US many times and I've never had to go through US border security when LEAVING the US.  When did this change?<br> <br>That said, in all my travels, I've never encountered any US border agent who was anything less than professional, even when under significant stress.  Not saying that it cannot happen, but it must be a rare event.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've travelled between Canada and the US many times and I 've never had to go through US border security when LEAVING the US .
When did this change ?
That said , in all my travels , I 've never encountered any US border agent who was anything less than professional , even when under significant stress .
Not saying that it can not happen , but it must be a rare event .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've travelled between Canada and the US many times and I've never had to go through US border security when LEAVING the US.
When did this change?
That said, in all my travels, I've never encountered any US border agent who was anything less than professional, even when under significant stress.
Not saying that it cannot happen, but it must be a rare event.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30415590</id>
	<title>Re:From the police report</title>
	<author>rochrist</author>
	<datestamp>1260644700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The newspaper story is wrong (and that isn't 'from the police report'). He was leaving the US. He'd been in the US for several days at that point.

Which is why it's referred to as a 'secondary inspection'. Those are random inspections of vehicles leaving the US.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The newspaper story is wrong ( and that is n't 'from the police report ' ) .
He was leaving the US .
He 'd been in the US for several days at that point .
Which is why it 's referred to as a 'secondary inspection' .
Those are random inspections of vehicles leaving the US .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The newspaper story is wrong (and that isn't 'from the police report').
He was leaving the US.
He'd been in the US for several days at that point.
Which is why it's referred to as a 'secondary inspection'.
Those are random inspections of vehicles leaving the US.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409808</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30412296</id>
	<title>Re:Let's not leap to conclusions.</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1260615600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>"If you take it as a given that a large number of border patrol officers are gigantic dicks "</p><p>why is it you would take that as a given?</p></div><p>From personal experience. I've crossed the U.S.-Canada border more than once, and I can fully attest to the fact that a large number of border patrol officers there are dicks. In fact, I was very pleasantly surprised when I met one (!) guy who wasn't one.</p><p>And no, it's not because I act aggressively, or do not comply to their requests, or anything like that. Quite the opposite, in fact - in the culture where I originally come from, there's a very deeply ingrained fear of authority present in flesh and with guns; I am, unfortunately, no exception, so I tend to be meek when confronted by such people.</p><p>One reason why our experiences differ is that you seem to be a U.S. citizen. That's an altogether different story.</p><p>As a side note - I'm not a citizen or permanent resident of Canada either, so I have to undergo a similar procedure when crossing back. And I have to say that Canadian border officers are much more professional and cheerful than their U.S. colleagues. Heck, they even smile at you more often than not.</p><p>Oh, and don't even get me started on the security staff in U.S. consulates. It's like they send all those too rude to work on the border in there. Curiously enough, once you get past them, the officers that are actually interviewing you for a visa are rather polite. But until that point, it feels like you're going to get a forced anal probe any minute.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" If you take it as a given that a large number of border patrol officers are gigantic dicks " why is it you would take that as a given ? From personal experience .
I 've crossed the U.S.-Canada border more than once , and I can fully attest to the fact that a large number of border patrol officers there are dicks .
In fact , I was very pleasantly surprised when I met one ( !
) guy who was n't one.And no , it 's not because I act aggressively , or do not comply to their requests , or anything like that .
Quite the opposite , in fact - in the culture where I originally come from , there 's a very deeply ingrained fear of authority present in flesh and with guns ; I am , unfortunately , no exception , so I tend to be meek when confronted by such people.One reason why our experiences differ is that you seem to be a U.S. citizen. That 's an altogether different story.As a side note - I 'm not a citizen or permanent resident of Canada either , so I have to undergo a similar procedure when crossing back .
And I have to say that Canadian border officers are much more professional and cheerful than their U.S. colleagues. Heck , they even smile at you more often than not.Oh , and do n't even get me started on the security staff in U.S. consulates. It 's like they send all those too rude to work on the border in there .
Curiously enough , once you get past them , the officers that are actually interviewing you for a visa are rather polite .
But until that point , it feels like you 're going to get a forced anal probe any minute .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"If you take it as a given that a large number of border patrol officers are gigantic dicks "why is it you would take that as a given?From personal experience.
I've crossed the U.S.-Canada border more than once, and I can fully attest to the fact that a large number of border patrol officers there are dicks.
In fact, I was very pleasantly surprised when I met one (!
) guy who wasn't one.And no, it's not because I act aggressively, or do not comply to their requests, or anything like that.
Quite the opposite, in fact - in the culture where I originally come from, there's a very deeply ingrained fear of authority present in flesh and with guns; I am, unfortunately, no exception, so I tend to be meek when confronted by such people.One reason why our experiences differ is that you seem to be a U.S. citizen. That's an altogether different story.As a side note - I'm not a citizen or permanent resident of Canada either, so I have to undergo a similar procedure when crossing back.
And I have to say that Canadian border officers are much more professional and cheerful than their U.S. colleagues. Heck, they even smile at you more often than not.Oh, and don't even get me started on the security staff in U.S. consulates. It's like they send all those too rude to work on the border in there.
Curiously enough, once you get past them, the officers that are actually interviewing you for a visa are rather polite.
But until that point, it feels like you're going to get a forced anal probe any minute.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409572</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30412460</id>
	<title>Re:Fail: Dealing with Police 101</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260617520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have Syrian friends who have given me more or less the same advice about how not to get in trouble there. Worked for me at a checkpoint. I'm sure it applies to any police state...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have Syrian friends who have given me more or less the same advice about how not to get in trouble there .
Worked for me at a checkpoint .
I 'm sure it applies to any police state.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have Syrian friends who have given me more or less the same advice about how not to get in trouble there.
Worked for me at a checkpoint.
I'm sure it applies to any police state...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410532</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30414330</id>
	<title>Clarification needed</title>
	<author>tcampb01</author>
	<datestamp>1260636300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I cross this same border regularly, and after reading the story, something is confusing to me.  The story says that he was "<em>returning</em> to Canada".  When returning to Canada there's a toll booth on the US side where you pay the bridge toll (staffed by employees of the bridge authority -- who are not customs agents).  The customs inspection is always on the far side of the bridge, in this case the Canadian side.  This would have been staffed by Canadian customs agents.</p><p>Does this article mean to say that there were US Customs &amp; Border inspection at the toll booth on the US side?  That would be very irregular.  The only time I have ever seen an exception is during the weekend of the Mackinac Race when police are trying to curtail drunk driving across the bridge (there's a huge party just before the race, heavy drinking, etc.).</p><p>I really feel for Mr. Watts.  I'm just trying to understand what happened.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I cross this same border regularly , and after reading the story , something is confusing to me .
The story says that he was " returning to Canada " .
When returning to Canada there 's a toll booth on the US side where you pay the bridge toll ( staffed by employees of the bridge authority -- who are not customs agents ) .
The customs inspection is always on the far side of the bridge , in this case the Canadian side .
This would have been staffed by Canadian customs agents.Does this article mean to say that there were US Customs &amp; Border inspection at the toll booth on the US side ?
That would be very irregular .
The only time I have ever seen an exception is during the weekend of the Mackinac Race when police are trying to curtail drunk driving across the bridge ( there 's a huge party just before the race , heavy drinking , etc .
) .I really feel for Mr. Watts. I 'm just trying to understand what happened .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I cross this same border regularly, and after reading the story, something is confusing to me.
The story says that he was "returning to Canada".
When returning to Canada there's a toll booth on the US side where you pay the bridge toll (staffed by employees of the bridge authority -- who are not customs agents).
The customs inspection is always on the far side of the bridge, in this case the Canadian side.
This would have been staffed by Canadian customs agents.Does this article mean to say that there were US Customs &amp; Border inspection at the toll booth on the US side?
That would be very irregular.
The only time I have ever seen an exception is during the weekend of the Mackinac Race when police are trying to curtail drunk driving across the bridge (there's a huge party just before the race, heavy drinking, etc.
).I really feel for Mr. Watts.  I'm just trying to understand what happened.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410312</id>
	<title>What you said is at odds with democracy.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260547560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You say, "he got out of his car when questioned (mistake #1)".  My response to that: What the hell?  I'm not going to accept that we should sit meekly while the authorities talk to us.  That's not the way a democracy works.  The authorities are our servants, and the moment we forget that is the moment that we start letting the authorities run our lives instead of being our own sovereign power as We The People.</p><p>I find it scary that people can say the things you said here and apparently mean it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You say , " he got out of his car when questioned ( mistake # 1 ) " .
My response to that : What the hell ?
I 'm not going to accept that we should sit meekly while the authorities talk to us .
That 's not the way a democracy works .
The authorities are our servants , and the moment we forget that is the moment that we start letting the authorities run our lives instead of being our own sovereign power as We The People.I find it scary that people can say the things you said here and apparently mean it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You say, "he got out of his car when questioned (mistake #1)".
My response to that: What the hell?
I'm not going to accept that we should sit meekly while the authorities talk to us.
That's not the way a democracy works.
The authorities are our servants, and the moment we forget that is the moment that we start letting the authorities run our lives instead of being our own sovereign power as We The People.I find it scary that people can say the things you said here and apparently mean it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409380</id>
	<title>This guy writes fiction for a living</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260540540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Let's wait for some actual <b>facts</b>, please, before lionizing this guy as a victim.</p><p>PS - Government police forces are supported by taxes.  Quit voting for the guys who want to raise your taxes if you don't want government thugs to beat you up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Let 's wait for some actual facts , please , before lionizing this guy as a victim.PS - Government police forces are supported by taxes .
Quit voting for the guys who want to raise your taxes if you do n't want government thugs to beat you up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let's wait for some actual facts, please, before lionizing this guy as a victim.PS - Government police forces are supported by taxes.
Quit voting for the guys who want to raise your taxes if you don't want government thugs to beat you up.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411208</id>
	<title>You Have The Right To Remain Silent...</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1260555300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>It probably shouldn't be too hard to convince a judge of this since, as far as I know, all border patrol stations are video taped. I would assume they'd also have audio in there... First thing I'd be doing, if I were truly innocent, is requesting the video for the time in question.</i> </p><p>The first thing you do is STFU.</p><p>Watts <b>can't</b> retreat from <b>anything</b> he posted to his blog without the risk of a jury concluding that he is a cynical, manipulative, liar.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It probably should n't be too hard to convince a judge of this since , as far as I know , all border patrol stations are video taped .
I would assume they 'd also have audio in there... First thing I 'd be doing , if I were truly innocent , is requesting the video for the time in question .
The first thing you do is STFU.Watts ca n't retreat from anything he posted to his blog without the risk of a jury concluding that he is a cynical , manipulative , liar .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>It probably shouldn't be too hard to convince a judge of this since, as far as I know, all border patrol stations are video taped.
I would assume they'd also have audio in there... First thing I'd be doing, if I were truly innocent, is requesting the video for the time in question.
The first thing you do is STFU.Watts can't retreat from anything he posted to his blog without the risk of a jury concluding that he is a cynical, manipulative, liar.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409278</id>
	<title>Re:Put him away...</title>
	<author>Zibri</author>
	<datestamp>1260539880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you consider the border patrols trustworthy, sure. I don't. I'd bet the only "crime" Peter Watts committed was of arguing back.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you consider the border patrols trustworthy , sure .
I do n't .
I 'd bet the only " crime " Peter Watts committed was of arguing back .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you consider the border patrols trustworthy, sure.
I don't.
I'd bet the only "crime" Peter Watts committed was of arguing back.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411204</id>
	<title>I'll stay away from the United States</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260555240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My solution is simple: I'll stay away from the US.<br>With all these stories about police violence, etc, it just does not seem like a safe country to visit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My solution is simple : I 'll stay away from the US.With all these stories about police violence , etc , it just does not seem like a safe country to visit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My solution is simple: I'll stay away from the US.With all these stories about police violence, etc, it just does not seem like a safe country to visit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409572</id>
	<title>Re:Let's not leap to conclusions.</title>
	<author>timmarhy</author>
	<datestamp>1260541740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"If you take it as a given that a large number of border patrol officers are gigantic dicks "<p>
why is it you would take that as a given but fail to believe this guy with an axe to grind isn't a huge dick himself? this form of selective hearing people seem to have is whats wrong with the world.</p><p>
I've crossed many borders many times including the US, and it've never had a single problem. you know why? because i don't act like an asshole the moment one of these guys tries to do his job. i've been scanned, sniffed, searched the whole lot and the grand total time in 10 years of travel that this has cost me wouldn't be more then 1 hour tops.</p><p>
next time some over worked under paid public servant stops you and asks to look in your bag, how about you try being polite, smiling ask them how their day is going and say thanks have a nice day when they are done? i'd bet money that's not what this guy did...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" If you take it as a given that a large number of border patrol officers are gigantic dicks " why is it you would take that as a given but fail to believe this guy with an axe to grind is n't a huge dick himself ?
this form of selective hearing people seem to have is whats wrong with the world .
I 've crossed many borders many times including the US , and it 've never had a single problem .
you know why ?
because i do n't act like an asshole the moment one of these guys tries to do his job .
i 've been scanned , sniffed , searched the whole lot and the grand total time in 10 years of travel that this has cost me would n't be more then 1 hour tops .
next time some over worked under paid public servant stops you and asks to look in your bag , how about you try being polite , smiling ask them how their day is going and say thanks have a nice day when they are done ?
i 'd bet money that 's not what this guy did.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"If you take it as a given that a large number of border patrol officers are gigantic dicks "
why is it you would take that as a given but fail to believe this guy with an axe to grind isn't a huge dick himself?
this form of selective hearing people seem to have is whats wrong with the world.
I've crossed many borders many times including the US, and it've never had a single problem.
you know why?
because i don't act like an asshole the moment one of these guys tries to do his job.
i've been scanned, sniffed, searched the whole lot and the grand total time in 10 years of travel that this has cost me wouldn't be more then 1 hour tops.
next time some over worked under paid public servant stops you and asks to look in your bag, how about you try being polite, smiling ask them how their day is going and say thanks have a nice day when they are done?
i'd bet money that's not what this guy did...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409412</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410020</id>
	<title>Re:Let's not leap to conclusions.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260544800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Good Lord, another account by Cory "I exaggerate so damn much it hurts" Doctrow?  He yells at the top his soapbox, and when confronted with contrary evidence he either ignores it or downplays his exaggeration. This has happened at least 4 times this year alone; with Copyright treaties, Protests in the EU and a few other topics.  A self aggrandizing blowhard.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Good Lord , another account by Cory " I exaggerate so damn much it hurts " Doctrow ?
He yells at the top his soapbox , and when confronted with contrary evidence he either ignores it or downplays his exaggeration .
This has happened at least 4 times this year alone ; with Copyright treaties , Protests in the EU and a few other topics .
A self aggrandizing blowhard .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good Lord, another account by Cory "I exaggerate so damn much it hurts" Doctrow?
He yells at the top his soapbox, and when confronted with contrary evidence he either ignores it or downplays his exaggeration.
This has happened at least 4 times this year alone; with Copyright treaties, Protests in the EU and a few other topics.
A self aggrandizing blowhard.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30412006</id>
	<title>Re:.. and this is why tourism is down...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260609180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I still do business in America, over the internet.<br>American shopping dollars, no tax and NEVER have to enter the country. My cock in your mouths.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I still do business in America , over the internet.American shopping dollars , no tax and NEVER have to enter the country .
My cock in your mouths .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I still do business in America, over the internet.American shopping dollars, no tax and NEVER have to enter the country.
My cock in your mouths.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409582</id>
	<title>Re:Always the same story...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260541860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Um, no.</p><p>How about I stand up for my human rights.  You?  You can do what ever you want.</p><p>I just don't go to the US anymore.  It's dangerous, not because I stand up for my own rights, but because people like You let these guys do crap like this.</p><p>Disgusting.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Um , no.How about I stand up for my human rights .
You ? You can do what ever you want.I just do n't go to the US anymore .
It 's dangerous , not because I stand up for my own rights , but because people like You let these guys do crap like this.Disgusting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Um, no.How about I stand up for my human rights.
You?  You can do what ever you want.I just don't go to the US anymore.
It's dangerous, not because I stand up for my own rights, but because people like You let these guys do crap like this.Disgusting.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409372</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30415462</id>
	<title>Re:Something stinks here...</title>
	<author>Mr. Freeman</author>
	<datestamp>1260644040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Yes, because it is often followed by shooting at an officer."<br>Right...<br>Do you care to tell us exactly how many times getting out of a car has resulted in a shooting?  I'm willing to bet money that it isn't even half of what you thought it was.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Yes , because it is often followed by shooting at an officer .
" Right...Do you care to tell us exactly how many times getting out of a car has resulted in a shooting ?
I 'm willing to bet money that it is n't even half of what you thought it was .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Yes, because it is often followed by shooting at an officer.
"Right...Do you care to tell us exactly how many times getting out of a car has resulted in a shooting?
I'm willing to bet money that it isn't even half of what you thought it was.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30412744</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30412088</id>
	<title>This isn't new</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260610980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Read Harlan Ellison's "The Tombs", an account of when police and the system almost ruined his life back in the 50s over possession of a single little handgun.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Read Harlan Ellison 's " The Tombs " , an account of when police and the system almost ruined his life back in the 50s over possession of a single little handgun .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Read Harlan Ellison's "The Tombs", an account of when police and the system almost ruined his life back in the 50s over possession of a single little handgun.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409332</id>
	<title>He dared....</title>
	<author>Yo\_mama</author>
	<datestamp>1260540240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In a mature society, "civil servant" is semantically equal to "civil master." - Robert Heinlein</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In a mature society , " civil servant " is semantically equal to " civil master .
" - Robert Heinlein</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In a mature society, "civil servant" is semantically equal to "civil master.
" - Robert Heinlein</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411228</id>
	<title>Re:Let's not leap to conclusions.</title>
	<author>zippthorne</author>
	<datestamp>1260555540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Posting to get rid of accidental down-mod  This comment was both funny and insightful, one of which is dangerously close to "overrated."</p><p>I favor the "leave a bowl of complimentary Derringers at the gate with a sign saying 'take one'" plan, though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Posting to get rid of accidental down-mod This comment was both funny and insightful , one of which is dangerously close to " overrated .
" I favor the " leave a bowl of complimentary Derringers at the gate with a sign saying 'take one ' " plan , though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Posting to get rid of accidental down-mod  This comment was both funny and insightful, one of which is dangerously close to "overrated.
"I favor the "leave a bowl of complimentary Derringers at the gate with a sign saying 'take one'" plan, though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409392</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30420086</id>
	<title>Re:Fail: Dealing with Police 101</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260640260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Unfortunately, Mr. Watts may not have had any previous experiences that would prep him for the possibility that getting out of the queue at a border crossing wasn't the best plan. I hope his only lasting consequences are a bruised body and ego.</p></div><p>You are missing the obvious. Mr. Watts has a silver spoon up his ass, he is Canadian and dammit isn't going to have some filthy Yank tell HIM what to fucking do, god-dammit, he's been nominated for a Hugo so he should get to act like an asshole.</p><p>Welcome to the real world, Mr. Watts. You are not special. You are not unique. Your are not a beautiful butterfly. You are the all-seeing, all-dancing crap of the Universe.</p><p>I'll give you a brief list of do's and dont's when dealing with any law enforcement, and especially at a border crossing.</p><p>1. When at a border crossing, you are REQUESTING PERMISSION to enter/exit the country. You have no rights to do either.<br>2. When crossing borders, you generally don't have much, if any, rights at all.<br>3. Do what the guards tell you to do. If you have some type of moral objection then passivly resist (example- if they tell you to rape or kill someone, just don't do it.)<br>4. NEVER, EVER, leave your car, approach the guards, or start mouthing off to them. The third action will always cause you grief, the first two could very easily get you shot.<br>5. If you're getting beaten, assaulted, etc. lay down in the fetal position and don't move.</p><p>Or to put it another way - do what you're told and don't be an asshole about it. You're not dealing with Wal-Mart employees, these are people who are being paid to prevent you invading or fleeing a country.</p><p>But some people just don't learn.</p><p>Incidentally, there was a press release in which the police report stated that he was randomly selected for a 2nd round of screening (this is quite normal) but instead of just waiting in line, he jumped out of his car, was screaming and yelling, and when the officers tried to cuff him he got into a scuffle and allegedly was choking one of them before they beat him down enough to throw him in the holding cell.</p><p>The reason he ended up on foot is less clear, since in normal situation he would not have been allowed to leave at all until he faced charges. Charges which he doesn't have to appear for unless he wants to come back to the US. So my personal speculation is that the US guards gave him the option of taking a hike or staying in the cell, and he chose to take a hike, and the Canadian officers didn't want to deal with his uppity attitude either and told him it was his own damn fault and have a nice walk.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unfortunately , Mr. Watts may not have had any previous experiences that would prep him for the possibility that getting out of the queue at a border crossing was n't the best plan .
I hope his only lasting consequences are a bruised body and ego.You are missing the obvious .
Mr. Watts has a silver spoon up his ass , he is Canadian and dammit is n't going to have some filthy Yank tell HIM what to fucking do , god-dammit , he 's been nominated for a Hugo so he should get to act like an asshole.Welcome to the real world , Mr. Watts. You are not special .
You are not unique .
Your are not a beautiful butterfly .
You are the all-seeing , all-dancing crap of the Universe.I 'll give you a brief list of do 's and dont 's when dealing with any law enforcement , and especially at a border crossing.1 .
When at a border crossing , you are REQUESTING PERMISSION to enter/exit the country .
You have no rights to do either.2 .
When crossing borders , you generally do n't have much , if any , rights at all.3 .
Do what the guards tell you to do .
If you have some type of moral objection then passivly resist ( example- if they tell you to rape or kill someone , just do n't do it. ) 4 .
NEVER , EVER , leave your car , approach the guards , or start mouthing off to them .
The third action will always cause you grief , the first two could very easily get you shot.5 .
If you 're getting beaten , assaulted , etc .
lay down in the fetal position and do n't move.Or to put it another way - do what you 're told and do n't be an asshole about it .
You 're not dealing with Wal-Mart employees , these are people who are being paid to prevent you invading or fleeing a country.But some people just do n't learn.Incidentally , there was a press release in which the police report stated that he was randomly selected for a 2nd round of screening ( this is quite normal ) but instead of just waiting in line , he jumped out of his car , was screaming and yelling , and when the officers tried to cuff him he got into a scuffle and allegedly was choking one of them before they beat him down enough to throw him in the holding cell.The reason he ended up on foot is less clear , since in normal situation he would not have been allowed to leave at all until he faced charges .
Charges which he does n't have to appear for unless he wants to come back to the US .
So my personal speculation is that the US guards gave him the option of taking a hike or staying in the cell , and he chose to take a hike , and the Canadian officers did n't want to deal with his uppity attitude either and told him it was his own damn fault and have a nice walk .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unfortunately, Mr. Watts may not have had any previous experiences that would prep him for the possibility that getting out of the queue at a border crossing wasn't the best plan.
I hope his only lasting consequences are a bruised body and ego.You are missing the obvious.
Mr. Watts has a silver spoon up his ass, he is Canadian and dammit isn't going to have some filthy Yank tell HIM what to fucking do, god-dammit, he's been nominated for a Hugo so he should get to act like an asshole.Welcome to the real world, Mr. Watts. You are not special.
You are not unique.
Your are not a beautiful butterfly.
You are the all-seeing, all-dancing crap of the Universe.I'll give you a brief list of do's and dont's when dealing with any law enforcement, and especially at a border crossing.1.
When at a border crossing, you are REQUESTING PERMISSION to enter/exit the country.
You have no rights to do either.2.
When crossing borders, you generally don't have much, if any, rights at all.3.
Do what the guards tell you to do.
If you have some type of moral objection then passivly resist (example- if they tell you to rape or kill someone, just don't do it.)4.
NEVER, EVER, leave your car, approach the guards, or start mouthing off to them.
The third action will always cause you grief, the first two could very easily get you shot.5.
If you're getting beaten, assaulted, etc.
lay down in the fetal position and don't move.Or to put it another way - do what you're told and don't be an asshole about it.
You're not dealing with Wal-Mart employees, these are people who are being paid to prevent you invading or fleeing a country.But some people just don't learn.Incidentally, there was a press release in which the police report stated that he was randomly selected for a 2nd round of screening (this is quite normal) but instead of just waiting in line, he jumped out of his car, was screaming and yelling, and when the officers tried to cuff him he got into a scuffle and allegedly was choking one of them before they beat him down enough to throw him in the holding cell.The reason he ended up on foot is less clear, since in normal situation he would not have been allowed to leave at all until he faced charges.
Charges which he doesn't have to appear for unless he wants to come back to the US.
So my personal speculation is that the US guards gave him the option of taking a hike or staying in the cell, and he chose to take a hike, and the Canadian officers didn't want to deal with his uppity attitude either and told him it was his own damn fault and have a nice walk.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410532</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411682</id>
	<title>Re:Fail: Dealing with Police 101</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260560880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wrong. You always have rights. That is why they are called RIGHTS.</p><p>There is no excuse for an officer of the law to attack unless there is probable cause. Violence of any kind is unacceptable without some reason.</p><p>An officer of the law is not above the law.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wrong .
You always have rights .
That is why they are called RIGHTS.There is no excuse for an officer of the law to attack unless there is probable cause .
Violence of any kind is unacceptable without some reason.An officer of the law is not above the law .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wrong.
You always have rights.
That is why they are called RIGHTS.There is no excuse for an officer of the law to attack unless there is probable cause.
Violence of any kind is unacceptable without some reason.An officer of the law is not above the law.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410532</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410982</id>
	<title>Re:Let's not leap to conclusions.</title>
	<author>Wyatt Earp</author>
	<datestamp>1260552540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Canadians and French are the worst border guards I've encountered. Israeli, Dutch and Americans were the easiest.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Canadians and French are the worst border guards I 've encountered .
Israeli , Dutch and Americans were the easiest .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Canadians and French are the worst border guards I've encountered.
Israeli, Dutch and Americans were the easiest.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409412</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411122</id>
	<title>Re:US Border Security when LEAVING US?</title>
	<author>SilverJets</author>
	<datestamp>1260554280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, wondering the same thing here too.  You don't get stopped by US border security when going to the Canadian border from the US side.  You get stopped by Canadian border security.  So something is definitely fishy with the account of events being told.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , wondering the same thing here too .
You do n't get stopped by US border security when going to the Canadian border from the US side .
You get stopped by Canadian border security .
So something is definitely fishy with the account of events being told .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, wondering the same thing here too.
You don't get stopped by US border security when going to the Canadian border from the US side.
You get stopped by Canadian border security.
So something is definitely fishy with the account of events being told.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409714</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411892</id>
	<title>Re:Let's not leap to conclusions.</title>
	<author>kahizonaki</author>
	<datestamp>1260650400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Him and millions of other people who realize that a posted sign saying "Please don't hijack the plane" would be about as effective and far less annoying than homeland security.
<br> <br>
Fixed that for you.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Him and millions of other people who realize that a posted sign saying " Please do n't hijack the plane " would be about as effective and far less annoying than homeland security .
Fixed that for you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Him and millions of other people who realize that a posted sign saying "Please don't hijack the plane" would be about as effective and far less annoying than homeland security.
Fixed that for you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409392</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411914</id>
	<title>I knew it!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260650760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've got one more proof that cops are so dumb, they don't even read books.<br>I knew that anyway, feel free to call me biased.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've got one more proof that cops are so dumb , they do n't even read books.I knew that anyway , feel free to call me biased .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've got one more proof that cops are so dumb, they don't even read books.I knew that anyway, feel free to call me biased.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30442426</id>
	<title>Geez</title>
	<author>RivenAleem</author>
	<datestamp>1260880500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A topic about a Canadian getting beat up and people make it political.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A topic about a Canadian getting beat up and people make it political .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A topic about a Canadian getting beat up and people make it political.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409356</id>
	<title>The other side?</title>
	<author>anyaristow</author>
	<datestamp>1260540420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Of course, being a sci fi geek he wouldn't have an inflated opinion of himself and a problem with authority, would he? He wouldn't have, say, raised his voice and shoved an officer, and gotten belligerent when they tried to restrain him, right? Of course he didn't resist arrest, did he?</p><p>Just imagining the story as I might hear it from someone in fandom...something about just going to help some orphans when for no reason some officer yanks 'em out of their car and beats 'em up...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course , being a sci fi geek he would n't have an inflated opinion of himself and a problem with authority , would he ?
He would n't have , say , raised his voice and shoved an officer , and gotten belligerent when they tried to restrain him , right ?
Of course he did n't resist arrest , did he ? Just imagining the story as I might hear it from someone in fandom...something about just going to help some orphans when for no reason some officer yanks 'em out of their car and beats 'em up.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course, being a sci fi geek he wouldn't have an inflated opinion of himself and a problem with authority, would he?
He wouldn't have, say, raised his voice and shoved an officer, and gotten belligerent when they tried to restrain him, right?
Of course he didn't resist arrest, did he?Just imagining the story as I might hear it from someone in fandom...something about just going to help some orphans when for no reason some officer yanks 'em out of their car and beats 'em up...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410068</id>
	<title>Re:Charges...</title>
	<author>adaviel</author>
	<datestamp>1260545160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.lrwc.org/documents/Civil.Disobedience.Guide.November.20.2009.F.pdf" title="lrwc.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.lrwc.org/documents/Civil.Disobedience.Guide.November.20.2009.F.pdf</a> [lrwc.org]

This "protesters guide to civil disobedience" was discussed recently on CBC Radio. Interesting tidbits about assaulting a police officer.

I suspect career criminals don't have this trouble - they figured out at 14 how to deal with law enforcement<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-7</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.lrwc.org/documents/Civil.Disobedience.Guide.November.20.2009.F.pdf [ lrwc.org ] This " protesters guide to civil disobedience " was discussed recently on CBC Radio .
Interesting tidbits about assaulting a police officer .
I suspect career criminals do n't have this trouble - they figured out at 14 how to deal with law enforcement : -7</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.lrwc.org/documents/Civil.Disobedience.Guide.November.20.2009.F.pdf [lrwc.org]

This "protesters guide to civil disobedience" was discussed recently on CBC Radio.
Interesting tidbits about assaulting a police officer.
I suspect career criminals don't have this trouble - they figured out at 14 how to deal with law enforcement :-7</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409574</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30417696</id>
	<title>Re:Fail: Dealing with Police 101</title>
	<author>MrPhilby</author>
	<datestamp>1260615900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>First they came for the gypsys and homosexuals....</htmltext>
<tokenext>First they came for the gypsys and homosexuals... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First they came for the gypsys and homosexuals....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410532</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411938</id>
	<title>I'm not as convinced as you</title>
	<author>YesIAmAScript</author>
	<datestamp>1260651060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And I work with literally a dozen Canadians here in the US. And they make the trip back and forth all the time and none has any problems. They did it in the last two weeks! Hell, for one of my Canadian friends, his parents moved to Chicago a few years before him, then he moved to San Jose, then his brother moved to Palo Alto. He got married last year. As you might expect, half the wedding guests came from Canada. Do you know how many didn't come because of the problems at the border? None.</p><p>My Canadian friend from London, ON worked in Chicago in the summer. He comes across the border to buy stuff like iPhones from time to time. He goes to see hockey games in Buffalo.</p><p>I curl with a huge pile of Canadians (as you might expect), none of them has these problems.</p><p>I'm sorry you are having problems. But I'm not as sure the full situation is exactly as you say.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And I work with literally a dozen Canadians here in the US .
And they make the trip back and forth all the time and none has any problems .
They did it in the last two weeks !
Hell , for one of my Canadian friends , his parents moved to Chicago a few years before him , then he moved to San Jose , then his brother moved to Palo Alto .
He got married last year .
As you might expect , half the wedding guests came from Canada .
Do you know how many did n't come because of the problems at the border ?
None.My Canadian friend from London , ON worked in Chicago in the summer .
He comes across the border to buy stuff like iPhones from time to time .
He goes to see hockey games in Buffalo.I curl with a huge pile of Canadians ( as you might expect ) , none of them has these problems.I 'm sorry you are having problems .
But I 'm not as sure the full situation is exactly as you say .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And I work with literally a dozen Canadians here in the US.
And they make the trip back and forth all the time and none has any problems.
They did it in the last two weeks!
Hell, for one of my Canadian friends, his parents moved to Chicago a few years before him, then he moved to San Jose, then his brother moved to Palo Alto.
He got married last year.
As you might expect, half the wedding guests came from Canada.
Do you know how many didn't come because of the problems at the border?
None.My Canadian friend from London, ON worked in Chicago in the summer.
He comes across the border to buy stuff like iPhones from time to time.
He goes to see hockey games in Buffalo.I curl with a huge pile of Canadians (as you might expect), none of them has these problems.I'm sorry you are having problems.
But I'm not as sure the full situation is exactly as you say.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409682</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260542520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Does the name <a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/trail/inside/cron.html" title="pbs.org">Ahmed Ressam</a> [pbs.org] ring any bells? He was caught crossing into the US from Canada with a trunkful of explosives &mdash; intended for Los Angeles' airport...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does the name Ahmed Ressam [ pbs.org ] ring any bells ?
He was caught crossing into the US from Canada with a trunkful of explosives    intended for Los Angeles ' airport.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does the name Ahmed Ressam [pbs.org] ring any bells?
He was caught crossing into the US from Canada with a trunkful of explosives — intended for Los Angeles' airport...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409886</id>
	<title>Doctorow WAS NOT THERE.  Nor was anyone else.</title>
	<author>SuperBanana</author>
	<datestamp>1260543840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>It sounds like the facts aren't all in yet, so let's not leap to conclusions.</i>

</p><p>Border stations have more security cameras than you can shake a stick at.  <b>I guarantee the whole thing was caught on at least one security camera</b>.  And the border officers damn well know that both their supervisors, and the courts, will see that video.

</p><p> <b>Also, Doctorow WAS NOT A WITNESS.</b>  He's repeating what the guy told him, which means <b>his information is from the accused, and was initially second-hand</b>, since he then "updates" the story with words directly from the accused.

</p><p> <i>I heard about it early Wednesday morning in London</i>

</p><p>Also, accounts (which all appear to have come from the accused) seem to <b>range wildly and aren't consistent on basic facts</b>, despite them coming from the same source- the accused.  Some mention him "getting shitkicked" and others simply say he was pepper-sprayed, put on the ground, and arrested.  None of the accounts are a specific retelling.  He doesn't mention EXACTLY what happened, what was said, etc.  Since he's talking at all, that means he hasn't talked to his lawyer (or his lawyer is grossly incompetent, which is what you get for hiring a bunch of EFF lawyers instead of a criminal defense attorney.  The first thing you do in something like this is SHUT UP ABOUT IT, unless you want to be hearing it read back in court.)

</p><p>$5000 says he was told his car was being searched, he started throwing a temper-tantrum, got out of the car, was told to get back in the car, pushed an officer away from him, and that earned him being pepper-sprayed and arrested.

</p><p>Much as I am not a fan of the border patrol's search powers, nor cops in general- police are usually trained to DE-escalate confrontations, and arrests and the like mean paperwork.  Think about how much fun change control request forms and HR paperwork are...cops don't like it any more than you do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It sounds like the facts are n't all in yet , so let 's not leap to conclusions .
Border stations have more security cameras than you can shake a stick at .
I guarantee the whole thing was caught on at least one security camera .
And the border officers damn well know that both their supervisors , and the courts , will see that video .
Also , Doctorow WAS NOT A WITNESS .
He 's repeating what the guy told him , which means his information is from the accused , and was initially second-hand , since he then " updates " the story with words directly from the accused .
I heard about it early Wednesday morning in London Also , accounts ( which all appear to have come from the accused ) seem to range wildly and are n't consistent on basic facts , despite them coming from the same source- the accused .
Some mention him " getting shitkicked " and others simply say he was pepper-sprayed , put on the ground , and arrested .
None of the accounts are a specific retelling .
He does n't mention EXACTLY what happened , what was said , etc .
Since he 's talking at all , that means he has n't talked to his lawyer ( or his lawyer is grossly incompetent , which is what you get for hiring a bunch of EFF lawyers instead of a criminal defense attorney .
The first thing you do in something like this is SHUT UP ABOUT IT , unless you want to be hearing it read back in court .
) $ 5000 says he was told his car was being searched , he started throwing a temper-tantrum , got out of the car , was told to get back in the car , pushed an officer away from him , and that earned him being pepper-sprayed and arrested .
Much as I am not a fan of the border patrol 's search powers , nor cops in general- police are usually trained to DE-escalate confrontations , and arrests and the like mean paperwork .
Think about how much fun change control request forms and HR paperwork are...cops do n't like it any more than you do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> It sounds like the facts aren't all in yet, so let's not leap to conclusions.
Border stations have more security cameras than you can shake a stick at.
I guarantee the whole thing was caught on at least one security camera.
And the border officers damn well know that both their supervisors, and the courts, will see that video.
Also, Doctorow WAS NOT A WITNESS.
He's repeating what the guy told him, which means his information is from the accused, and was initially second-hand, since he then "updates" the story with words directly from the accused.
I heard about it early Wednesday morning in London

Also, accounts (which all appear to have come from the accused) seem to range wildly and aren't consistent on basic facts, despite them coming from the same source- the accused.
Some mention him "getting shitkicked" and others simply say he was pepper-sprayed, put on the ground, and arrested.
None of the accounts are a specific retelling.
He doesn't mention EXACTLY what happened, what was said, etc.
Since he's talking at all, that means he hasn't talked to his lawyer (or his lawyer is grossly incompetent, which is what you get for hiring a bunch of EFF lawyers instead of a criminal defense attorney.
The first thing you do in something like this is SHUT UP ABOUT IT, unless you want to be hearing it read back in court.
)

$5000 says he was told his car was being searched, he started throwing a temper-tantrum, got out of the car, was told to get back in the car, pushed an officer away from him, and that earned him being pepper-sprayed and arrested.
Much as I am not a fan of the border patrol's search powers, nor cops in general- police are usually trained to DE-escalate confrontations, and arrests and the like mean paperwork.
Think about how much fun change control request forms and HR paperwork are...cops don't like it any more than you do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409670</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>phantomfive</author>
	<datestamp>1260542460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>You know, I would totally agree with you, but time and again <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed\_Ressam#Capture.2C\_trial.2C\_detention\_and\_interrogation" title="wikipedia.org">bad guys</a> [wikipedia.org] have been caught trying to sneak through the security gates.  Why they go that way instead of following your advice, I will never know. However, as long as they are going that way, we might as well try to catch them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You know , I would totally agree with you , but time and again bad guys [ wikipedia.org ] have been caught trying to sneak through the security gates .
Why they go that way instead of following your advice , I will never know .
However , as long as they are going that way , we might as well try to catch them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know, I would totally agree with you, but time and again bad guys [wikipedia.org] have been caught trying to sneak through the security gates.
Why they go that way instead of following your advice, I will never know.
However, as long as they are going that way, we might as well try to catch them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409782</id>
	<title>Re:The other side?</title>
	<author>node 3</author>
	<datestamp>1260543180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>He wouldn't have, say, raised his voice and shoved an officer, and gotten belligerent when they tried to restrain him, right?</p></div><p>Hell, maybe he pulled a knife, or reached for the officer's gun? Who knows, right?</p><p>Or maybe, he did what countless people find to be a big mistake day after day, and dared to ask an armed man who's above the law a question he doesn't want to answer. You know how sometimes you encounter someone in retail (or other similar customer-facing professions) who doesn't want to alter from the standard way of doing something? Either due to lack of imagination, boredom, incompetency, or merely not wanting to put up with this shit right now? Imagine if that person was armed and allowed to not only beat and imprison you, but then file charges on you after it's all over? Are you *sure* you want to calmly, but confidently suggest that why can't you order the taco supreme combo, but have one of the tacos be a regular one since the only difference is no sour cream?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Of course he didn't resist arrest, did he?</p></div><p>Arrest for what? He was at the border, he wasn't leaving.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>He would n't have , say , raised his voice and shoved an officer , and gotten belligerent when they tried to restrain him , right ? Hell , maybe he pulled a knife , or reached for the officer 's gun ?
Who knows , right ? Or maybe , he did what countless people find to be a big mistake day after day , and dared to ask an armed man who 's above the law a question he does n't want to answer .
You know how sometimes you encounter someone in retail ( or other similar customer-facing professions ) who does n't want to alter from the standard way of doing something ?
Either due to lack of imagination , boredom , incompetency , or merely not wanting to put up with this shit right now ?
Imagine if that person was armed and allowed to not only beat and imprison you , but then file charges on you after it 's all over ?
Are you * sure * you want to calmly , but confidently suggest that why ca n't you order the taco supreme combo , but have one of the tacos be a regular one since the only difference is no sour cream ? Of course he did n't resist arrest , did he ? Arrest for what ?
He was at the border , he was n't leaving .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He wouldn't have, say, raised his voice and shoved an officer, and gotten belligerent when they tried to restrain him, right?Hell, maybe he pulled a knife, or reached for the officer's gun?
Who knows, right?Or maybe, he did what countless people find to be a big mistake day after day, and dared to ask an armed man who's above the law a question he doesn't want to answer.
You know how sometimes you encounter someone in retail (or other similar customer-facing professions) who doesn't want to alter from the standard way of doing something?
Either due to lack of imagination, boredom, incompetency, or merely not wanting to put up with this shit right now?
Imagine if that person was armed and allowed to not only beat and imprison you, but then file charges on you after it's all over?
Are you *sure* you want to calmly, but confidently suggest that why can't you order the taco supreme combo, but have one of the tacos be a regular one since the only difference is no sour cream?Of course he didn't resist arrest, did he?Arrest for what?
He was at the border, he wasn't leaving.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409356</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410764</id>
	<title>Leaving the Country?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260551100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Since when do you have to check in with US Border Guards when leaving the country? That's not the way the border works - you check in with the US side when entering the US, and you check in with the Canadian side when entering Canada. Something's not quite right with this story.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Since when do you have to check in with US Border Guards when leaving the country ?
That 's not the way the border works - you check in with the US side when entering the US , and you check in with the Canadian side when entering Canada .
Something 's not quite right with this story .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since when do you have to check in with US Border Guards when leaving the country?
That's not the way the border works - you check in with the US side when entering the US, and you check in with the Canadian side when entering Canada.
Something's not quite right with this story.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410750</id>
	<title>He got out of the car...</title>
	<author>Wyatt Earp</author>
	<datestamp>1260550920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You never get out of the car...</p><p>Traveled from Washington to Alaska, so both borders, before I left I read up on the protocols for getting across easily. You don't get out, you don't question, you don't wear sunglasses, etc.</p><p>FTA - After border guards asked to search his car, Watts got out of the vehicle and questioned what they were doing.</p><p>Yea, thats a tasering.</p><p>"Along some other timeline, I did not get out of the car to ask what was going on. I did not repeat that question when refused an answer and told to get back into the vehicle." It doesn't matter what border guards or police it is and what country, get out of the car and thats an aggressive act to them, welcome to the asskicking.</p><p>"Peter, a Canadian citizen, was on his way back to Canada after helping a friend move house to Nebraska over the weekend. He was stopped at the border crossing at Port Huron, Michigan by U.S. border police for a search of his rental vehicle. When Peter got out of the car and questioned the nature of the search, the gang of border guards subjected him to a beating, restrained him and pepper sprayed him."</p><p>From what I read they go after rental cars because those are commonly used to transport dope, and he got out and asked questions. I also believe a group of police is called a "squad" or a "team" or maybe even a posse, not a "gang".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You never get out of the car...Traveled from Washington to Alaska , so both borders , before I left I read up on the protocols for getting across easily .
You do n't get out , you do n't question , you do n't wear sunglasses , etc.FTA - After border guards asked to search his car , Watts got out of the vehicle and questioned what they were doing.Yea , thats a tasering .
" Along some other timeline , I did not get out of the car to ask what was going on .
I did not repeat that question when refused an answer and told to get back into the vehicle .
" It does n't matter what border guards or police it is and what country , get out of the car and thats an aggressive act to them , welcome to the asskicking .
" Peter , a Canadian citizen , was on his way back to Canada after helping a friend move house to Nebraska over the weekend .
He was stopped at the border crossing at Port Huron , Michigan by U.S. border police for a search of his rental vehicle .
When Peter got out of the car and questioned the nature of the search , the gang of border guards subjected him to a beating , restrained him and pepper sprayed him .
" From what I read they go after rental cars because those are commonly used to transport dope , and he got out and asked questions .
I also believe a group of police is called a " squad " or a " team " or maybe even a posse , not a " gang " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You never get out of the car...Traveled from Washington to Alaska, so both borders, before I left I read up on the protocols for getting across easily.
You don't get out, you don't question, you don't wear sunglasses, etc.FTA - After border guards asked to search his car, Watts got out of the vehicle and questioned what they were doing.Yea, thats a tasering.
"Along some other timeline, I did not get out of the car to ask what was going on.
I did not repeat that question when refused an answer and told to get back into the vehicle.
" It doesn't matter what border guards or police it is and what country, get out of the car and thats an aggressive act to them, welcome to the asskicking.
"Peter, a Canadian citizen, was on his way back to Canada after helping a friend move house to Nebraska over the weekend.
He was stopped at the border crossing at Port Huron, Michigan by U.S. border police for a search of his rental vehicle.
When Peter got out of the car and questioned the nature of the search, the gang of border guards subjected him to a beating, restrained him and pepper sprayed him.
"From what I read they go after rental cars because those are commonly used to transport dope, and he got out and asked questions.
I also believe a group of police is called a "squad" or a "team" or maybe even a posse, not a "gang".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30418742</id>
	<title>Weird Border Gate</title>
	<author>pubwvj</author>
	<datestamp>1260626520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In Vermont they had a permanently established border point at a rest area about half way down the state on I-91. It was there for a long time and widely discussed in the newspapers. A terrorist would simply need to get off at the exit before and get back on at the exit after. This internal border check point was a totally pointless waste of tax payer dollars. Or they could look like your typical family of five in a minivan and get waved right through.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In Vermont they had a permanently established border point at a rest area about half way down the state on I-91 .
It was there for a long time and widely discussed in the newspapers .
A terrorist would simply need to get off at the exit before and get back on at the exit after .
This internal border check point was a totally pointless waste of tax payer dollars .
Or they could look like your typical family of five in a minivan and get waved right through .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In Vermont they had a permanently established border point at a rest area about half way down the state on I-91.
It was there for a long time and widely discussed in the newspapers.
A terrorist would simply need to get off at the exit before and get back on at the exit after.
This internal border check point was a totally pointless waste of tax payer dollars.
Or they could look like your typical family of five in a minivan and get waved right through.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410534</id>
	<title>Forgotten Law?</title>
	<author>Whomp-Ass</author>
	<datestamp>1260549240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It seems the citizenry, officers, and/or agents of the U.S. gov't have forgotten a few, really pertinent, things...</p><blockquote><div><p>Title 18 U.S.C. Section 241 : Conspiracy against rights; If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same;...</p></div></blockquote><p>e.g. A police officer and his partner (and/or dispatch)</p><p>My Favoritest:</p><blockquote><div><p>TITLE 18, U.S.C., SECTION 242</p><p>Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnaping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.</p></div></blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It seems the citizenry , officers , and/or agents of the U.S. gov't have forgotten a few , really pertinent , things...Title 18 U.S.C .
Section 241 : Conspiracy against rights ; If two or more persons conspire to injure , oppress , threaten , or intimidate any person in any State , Territory , Commonwealth , Possession , or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States , or because of his having so exercised the same ; ...e.g .
A police officer and his partner ( and/or dispatch ) My Favoritest : TITLE 18 , U.S.C. , SECTION 242Whoever , under color of any law , statute , ordinance , regulation , or custom , willfully subjects any person in any State , Territory , Commonwealth , Possession , or District to the deprivation of any rights , privileges , or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States , ... shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year , or both ; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use , attempted use , or threatened use of a dangerous weapon , explosives , or fire , shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years , or both ; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnaping or an attempt to kidnap , aggravated sexual abuse , or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse , or an attempt to kill , shall be fined under this title , or imprisoned for any term of years or for life , or both , or may be sentenced to death .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It seems the citizenry, officers, and/or agents of the U.S. gov't have forgotten a few, really pertinent, things...Title 18 U.S.C.
Section 241 : Conspiracy against rights; If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same;...e.g.
A police officer and his partner (and/or dispatch)My Favoritest:TITLE 18, U.S.C., SECTION 242Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, ... shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnaping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411304</id>
	<title>Re:If he's smart...</title>
	<author>fizbane</author>
	<datestamp>1260556140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> If his account is correct he shouldn't have a problem beating the charges provided they can locate a witness or video, and with them he's got a slam dunk civil rights suit against DOHS</p></div><p>If his account is correct he'll have a hard time either beating the charges or winning a civil rights suit.  If you leave a vehicle during a traffic stop and refuse an order to get back into the vehicle, your behavior is generally considered threatening enough to give law enforcement requisite cause to detain you for a patdown. In the US, the relevant SCOTUS case is Terry v. Ohio and in Canada they have R. v. Mann.   At this point, you are in a legal state midway between freedom and arrest and  further noncompliance with demands is resisting arrest.  Since his account does not include any necessity of medical treatment, it's unlikely that any excessive force used was of such a degree to make a "slam dunk" case.

It's nevertheless disappointing that this event occurred but he obviously was terribly mistaken about the extent of his legal rights once he was stopped and began refusing law enforcement demands.  I have no doubt that the same chain of events could easily occur if one was to resist a legitimate patdown in Canada.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If his account is correct he should n't have a problem beating the charges provided they can locate a witness or video , and with them he 's got a slam dunk civil rights suit against DOHSIf his account is correct he 'll have a hard time either beating the charges or winning a civil rights suit .
If you leave a vehicle during a traffic stop and refuse an order to get back into the vehicle , your behavior is generally considered threatening enough to give law enforcement requisite cause to detain you for a patdown .
In the US , the relevant SCOTUS case is Terry v. Ohio and in Canada they have R. v. Mann .
At this point , you are in a legal state midway between freedom and arrest and further noncompliance with demands is resisting arrest .
Since his account does not include any necessity of medical treatment , it 's unlikely that any excessive force used was of such a degree to make a " slam dunk " case .
It 's nevertheless disappointing that this event occurred but he obviously was terribly mistaken about the extent of his legal rights once he was stopped and began refusing law enforcement demands .
I have no doubt that the same chain of events could easily occur if one was to resist a legitimate patdown in Canada .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> If his account is correct he shouldn't have a problem beating the charges provided they can locate a witness or video, and with them he's got a slam dunk civil rights suit against DOHSIf his account is correct he'll have a hard time either beating the charges or winning a civil rights suit.
If you leave a vehicle during a traffic stop and refuse an order to get back into the vehicle, your behavior is generally considered threatening enough to give law enforcement requisite cause to detain you for a patdown.
In the US, the relevant SCOTUS case is Terry v. Ohio and in Canada they have R. v. Mann.
At this point, you are in a legal state midway between freedom and arrest and  further noncompliance with demands is resisting arrest.
Since his account does not include any necessity of medical treatment, it's unlikely that any excessive force used was of such a degree to make a "slam dunk" case.
It's nevertheless disappointing that this event occurred but he obviously was terribly mistaken about the extent of his legal rights once he was stopped and began refusing law enforcement demands.
I have no doubt that the same chain of events could easily occur if one was to resist a legitimate patdown in Canada.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410052</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410600</id>
	<title>I moved to Canada several years ago</title>
	<author>Ralph Spoilsport</author>
	<datestamp>1260549720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And I've seen the American Border Patrol personnel deteriorate.
<p>
 I still carry a USA passport, but when I'm travelling by car, usually through Port Huron, I get more of a grilling from the Americans than the Canadians.
</p><p>
This is the conversation with the American border guard last year for Xmas. In my car? Me, wife, child, cat in a travel box, several Xmas gifties and our clothes. He looks in, takes our <b>American Passports</b> and asks:
</p><p>
USA: Where you going?
</p><p>
RS: (city - state)
</p><p>
USA: Where you staying?
</p><p>
RS: in laws house.
</p><p>
USA: When you going back?
</p><p>
RS: Day After New Years.
</p><p>
USA: Got any food?
</p><p>
RS: Nothing of significance - just these cookies and bottled water.
</p><p>
USA: (jokingly) uh oh - we'll have to take those cookies.
</p><p>
(daughter bursts into tears)
</p><p>
RS: Great...
</p><p>
USA: just joking kid. You can keep the cookies.
</p><p>
RS: Thanks.
</p><p>
USA: (returns passports) have a nice trip.
</p><p>
On our return trip with USA Passports, the Canadian Guard says:
</p><p>
CAN: Passports?
</p><p>
RS: Here ya go.
</p><p>
CAN: Thanks. (looks in car at me, wife, child, and cat and bags) Have a good holiday?
</p><p>
RS: Yes.
</p><p>
CAN: Where do you live?
</p><p>
RS: Toronto.
</p><p>
CAN: OK. Have a nice day. (waves us in.)
</p><p>
I've only had one bad experience with Canadian officials, and he wasn't pissed at me, he was pissed at lazy ass colleagues who forced him to do their work.
</p><p>
Whenever I deal with American Border people, it's always more of a hassle. At the Airport, they even have American Customs in Toronto - you have to clear them in TO first. Nothing like an expanded sense of sovereignty.
</p><p>
So, like many people above, i simply reduce the amount of travel I do in the states. The place is so fucked up  anymore, it's just not any fun.
</p><p>
I'd rather go to Europe. It's also fucked up, but in a much nicer way (at least where I travel....)
</p><p>
RS</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And I 've seen the American Border Patrol personnel deteriorate .
I still carry a USA passport , but when I 'm travelling by car , usually through Port Huron , I get more of a grilling from the Americans than the Canadians .
This is the conversation with the American border guard last year for Xmas .
In my car ?
Me , wife , child , cat in a travel box , several Xmas gifties and our clothes .
He looks in , takes our American Passports and asks : USA : Where you going ?
RS : ( city - state ) USA : Where you staying ?
RS : in laws house .
USA : When you going back ?
RS : Day After New Years .
USA : Got any food ?
RS : Nothing of significance - just these cookies and bottled water .
USA : ( jokingly ) uh oh - we 'll have to take those cookies .
( daughter bursts into tears ) RS : Great.. . USA : just joking kid .
You can keep the cookies .
RS : Thanks .
USA : ( returns passports ) have a nice trip .
On our return trip with USA Passports , the Canadian Guard says : CAN : Passports ?
RS : Here ya go .
CAN : Thanks .
( looks in car at me , wife , child , and cat and bags ) Have a good holiday ?
RS : Yes .
CAN : Where do you live ?
RS : Toronto .
CAN : OK. Have a nice day .
( waves us in .
) I 've only had one bad experience with Canadian officials , and he was n't pissed at me , he was pissed at lazy ass colleagues who forced him to do their work .
Whenever I deal with American Border people , it 's always more of a hassle .
At the Airport , they even have American Customs in Toronto - you have to clear them in TO first .
Nothing like an expanded sense of sovereignty .
So , like many people above , i simply reduce the amount of travel I do in the states .
The place is so fucked up anymore , it 's just not any fun .
I 'd rather go to Europe .
It 's also fucked up , but in a much nicer way ( at least where I travel.... ) RS</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And I've seen the American Border Patrol personnel deteriorate.
I still carry a USA passport, but when I'm travelling by car, usually through Port Huron, I get more of a grilling from the Americans than the Canadians.
This is the conversation with the American border guard last year for Xmas.
In my car?
Me, wife, child, cat in a travel box, several Xmas gifties and our clothes.
He looks in, takes our American Passports and asks:

USA: Where you going?
RS: (city - state)

USA: Where you staying?
RS: in laws house.
USA: When you going back?
RS: Day After New Years.
USA: Got any food?
RS: Nothing of significance - just these cookies and bottled water.
USA: (jokingly) uh oh - we'll have to take those cookies.
(daughter bursts into tears)

RS: Great...

USA: just joking kid.
You can keep the cookies.
RS: Thanks.
USA: (returns passports) have a nice trip.
On our return trip with USA Passports, the Canadian Guard says:

CAN: Passports?
RS: Here ya go.
CAN: Thanks.
(looks in car at me, wife, child, and cat and bags) Have a good holiday?
RS: Yes.
CAN: Where do you live?
RS: Toronto.
CAN: OK. Have a nice day.
(waves us in.
)

I've only had one bad experience with Canadian officials, and he wasn't pissed at me, he was pissed at lazy ass colleagues who forced him to do their work.
Whenever I deal with American Border people, it's always more of a hassle.
At the Airport, they even have American Customs in Toronto - you have to clear them in TO first.
Nothing like an expanded sense of sovereignty.
So, like many people above, i simply reduce the amount of travel I do in the states.
The place is so fucked up  anymore, it's just not any fun.
I'd rather go to Europe.
It's also fucked up, but in a much nicer way (at least where I travel....)

RS</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411078</id>
	<title>Rio de Janeiro 2016!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260553800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, so the Olympic Committee's decision was justified after all!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , so the Olympic Committee 's decision was justified after all !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, so the Olympic Committee's decision was justified after all!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30413678</id>
	<title>Re:I'm entirely inclined to believe Watts</title>
	<author>smchris</author>
	<datestamp>1260631200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Me too.  I miss the good old days.  In spirit, most of my interactions on the Canadian side were along the lines of "Party on, Dude!  Don't break anything while you're visiting, eh?  Oh, and sorry to waste your time but I have to ask you these three questions."  In contrast, I know a dual citizen Aussie/Brit living in the U.S. who swears there isn't anyone more stone cold psycho that a first world person is likely to encounter than a U.S. border agent.  My wife and I sat around the station once while they took an hour to do the one-step-short-of-getting-out-the-wrenches car inspection.<br>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Me too .
I miss the good old days .
In spirit , most of my interactions on the Canadian side were along the lines of " Party on , Dude !
Do n't break anything while you 're visiting , eh ?
Oh , and sorry to waste your time but I have to ask you these three questions .
" In contrast , I know a dual citizen Aussie/Brit living in the U.S. who swears there is n't anyone more stone cold psycho that a first world person is likely to encounter than a U.S. border agent .
My wife and I sat around the station once while they took an hour to do the one-step-short-of-getting-out-the-wrenches car inspection .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>Me too.
I miss the good old days.
In spirit, most of my interactions on the Canadian side were along the lines of "Party on, Dude!
Don't break anything while you're visiting, eh?
Oh, and sorry to waste your time but I have to ask you these three questions.
"  In contrast, I know a dual citizen Aussie/Brit living in the U.S. who swears there isn't anyone more stone cold psycho that a first world person is likely to encounter than a U.S. border agent.
My wife and I sat around the station once while they took an hour to do the one-step-short-of-getting-out-the-wrenches car inspection.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411154</id>
	<title>I would have beat him too...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260554700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'll take the opposing view in light of the plentiful liberal drivel in this thread: I say an uppity Canadian questioning local authority deserved a thorough peppering at a very minimum. Show your passport and move the fuck on, nobody really cares about your viewpoint you self-righteous tool.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll take the opposing view in light of the plentiful liberal drivel in this thread : I say an uppity Canadian questioning local authority deserved a thorough peppering at a very minimum .
Show your passport and move the fuck on , nobody really cares about your viewpoint you self-righteous tool .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll take the opposing view in light of the plentiful liberal drivel in this thread: I say an uppity Canadian questioning local authority deserved a thorough peppering at a very minimum.
Show your passport and move the fuck on, nobody really cares about your viewpoint you self-righteous tool.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410178</id>
	<title>Re:Not worth it.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260546360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So by your own admission, you've been entering and leaving for several decades now.  And you stopped - or slowed down - not because of any real evidence, or anything you witnessed, or anything you had happen to you.  You just suddenly decided it was "one of the most dangerous places" you could think of.  Based on what?  Stupid, trumped-up, half-reported crap like this "story"?</p><p>If you think it's likely you'll get out of your car when ordered not to, yell at officers when they tell you to get back in, and choke an officer when he tries to put cuffs on you, yeah, I suggest you stay out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So by your own admission , you 've been entering and leaving for several decades now .
And you stopped - or slowed down - not because of any real evidence , or anything you witnessed , or anything you had happen to you .
You just suddenly decided it was " one of the most dangerous places " you could think of .
Based on what ?
Stupid , trumped-up , half-reported crap like this " story " ? If you think it 's likely you 'll get out of your car when ordered not to , yell at officers when they tell you to get back in , and choke an officer when he tries to put cuffs on you , yeah , I suggest you stay out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So by your own admission, you've been entering and leaving for several decades now.
And you stopped - or slowed down - not because of any real evidence, or anything you witnessed, or anything you had happen to you.
You just suddenly decided it was "one of the most dangerous places" you could think of.
Based on what?
Stupid, trumped-up, half-reported crap like this "story"?If you think it's likely you'll get out of your car when ordered not to, yell at officers when they tell you to get back in, and choke an officer when he tries to put cuffs on you, yeah, I suggest you stay out.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409932</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30414498</id>
	<title>What did he actually do?</title>
	<author>ari\_j</author>
	<datestamp>1260637500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I found a <a href="http://www.thetimesherald.com/article/20091212/NEWS01/912120305/1002/Writer-faces-assault-charge" title="thetimesherald.com">news article</a> [thetimesherald.com] explaining that Mr. Watts was selected randomly for a "secondary Customs inspection" and that he was belligerent about it.  I don't know what actually happened, but there's always another side to the story and, in typical Slashdot fashion, it doesn't appear anyone's considered what the other side to this one is.  For instance, his being half-naked in a cell is likely because he was subdued by pepper spray, which has a tendency to get into your clothing and make you want it off of your body.  I have seen one individual tear off his sweatshirt pro wrestler-style in the dead of a Montana winter night because of the pepper spray in the shirt.
<br> <br>
It's quite likely that the US border agents went too far, but it's less likely that they beat up a Canadian celebrity just for sport.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I found a news article [ thetimesherald.com ] explaining that Mr. Watts was selected randomly for a " secondary Customs inspection " and that he was belligerent about it .
I do n't know what actually happened , but there 's always another side to the story and , in typical Slashdot fashion , it does n't appear anyone 's considered what the other side to this one is .
For instance , his being half-naked in a cell is likely because he was subdued by pepper spray , which has a tendency to get into your clothing and make you want it off of your body .
I have seen one individual tear off his sweatshirt pro wrestler-style in the dead of a Montana winter night because of the pepper spray in the shirt .
It 's quite likely that the US border agents went too far , but it 's less likely that they beat up a Canadian celebrity just for sport .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I found a news article [thetimesherald.com] explaining that Mr. Watts was selected randomly for a "secondary Customs inspection" and that he was belligerent about it.
I don't know what actually happened, but there's always another side to the story and, in typical Slashdot fashion, it doesn't appear anyone's considered what the other side to this one is.
For instance, his being half-naked in a cell is likely because he was subdued by pepper spray, which has a tendency to get into your clothing and make you want it off of your body.
I have seen one individual tear off his sweatshirt pro wrestler-style in the dead of a Montana winter night because of the pepper spray in the shirt.
It's quite likely that the US border agents went too far, but it's less likely that they beat up a Canadian celebrity just for sport.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410976</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411786</id>
	<title>Really good recruiting ad for Homeland Security</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260648780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Want to beat random people up?<br>
Want to legally charge them for assault as well?<br>
Want to ruin their car, their house, and their family?<br>
And finally, want to leave them in Siberian cold without a shirt?<br> <br>
You don't have to be Joseph Stalin to do all these! Join Homeland Security today! Keeping America safe, one mangled skull at a time!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Want to beat random people up ?
Want to legally charge them for assault as well ?
Want to ruin their car , their house , and their family ?
And finally , want to leave them in Siberian cold without a shirt ?
You do n't have to be Joseph Stalin to do all these !
Join Homeland Security today !
Keeping America safe , one mangled skull at a time !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Want to beat random people up?
Want to legally charge them for assault as well?
Want to ruin their car, their house, and their family?
And finally, want to leave them in Siberian cold without a shirt?
You don't have to be Joseph Stalin to do all these!
Join Homeland Security today!
Keeping America safe, one mangled skull at a time!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411178</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>DerekLyons</author>
	<datestamp>1260554940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>As a Canadian I will never understand why the US is so eager about its boarder security with Canada.</p></div></blockquote><p>Mostly because, if you aren't American, Canadians tend to be less than picky about who they let into their country and lax about checking papers and background.<br>
&nbsp; </p><blockquote><div><p>Take a look at a map of North America, we share a huge boarder. If some one wanted to get across undetected, they would go to Calgary, Edmonton, etc. Buy/Rent a off-road vehicle and just drive in across some open fields. It's not hard to figure out.</p></div></blockquote><p>Since few people seem to try that method, that <i>should</i> be an indication of just how little it is likely to work.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a Canadian I will never understand why the US is so eager about its boarder security with Canada.Mostly because , if you are n't American , Canadians tend to be less than picky about who they let into their country and lax about checking papers and background .
  Take a look at a map of North America , we share a huge boarder .
If some one wanted to get across undetected , they would go to Calgary , Edmonton , etc .
Buy/Rent a off-road vehicle and just drive in across some open fields .
It 's not hard to figure out.Since few people seem to try that method , that should be an indication of just how little it is likely to work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a Canadian I will never understand why the US is so eager about its boarder security with Canada.Mostly because, if you aren't American, Canadians tend to be less than picky about who they let into their country and lax about checking papers and background.
  Take a look at a map of North America, we share a huge boarder.
If some one wanted to get across undetected, they would go to Calgary, Edmonton, etc.
Buy/Rent a off-road vehicle and just drive in across some open fields.
It's not hard to figure out.Since few people seem to try that method, that should be an indication of just how little it is likely to work.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409372</id>
	<title>Always the same story...</title>
	<author>vvaduva</author>
	<datestamp>1260540480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Look guys, this is the same story we hear over and over again.  First we need to hear the side of the border guards; secondly, always assume that government officials are assholes.  Do what they ask, obey their orders, don't be a smartass - as a result, you will generally speaking be OK.</p><p>If you talk back, disobey orders and give them a hard time, crap like this will most likely happen to you because you escalate the situation and make the lives of people who already have miserable jobs more miserable.  That's not an excuse, but don't be surprised when stuff like this happens.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Look guys , this is the same story we hear over and over again .
First we need to hear the side of the border guards ; secondly , always assume that government officials are assholes .
Do what they ask , obey their orders , do n't be a smartass - as a result , you will generally speaking be OK.If you talk back , disobey orders and give them a hard time , crap like this will most likely happen to you because you escalate the situation and make the lives of people who already have miserable jobs more miserable .
That 's not an excuse , but do n't be surprised when stuff like this happens .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look guys, this is the same story we hear over and over again.
First we need to hear the side of the border guards; secondly, always assume that government officials are assholes.
Do what they ask, obey their orders, don't be a smartass - as a result, you will generally speaking be OK.If you talk back, disobey orders and give them a hard time, crap like this will most likely happen to you because you escalate the situation and make the lives of people who already have miserable jobs more miserable.
That's not an excuse, but don't be surprised when stuff like this happens.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410794</id>
	<title>Re:.. and this is why tourism is down...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260551280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Obama is protecting the torturers and the assholes. He has delivered no CHANGE whatsoever.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Obama is protecting the torturers and the assholes .
He has delivered no CHANGE whatsoever .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Obama is protecting the torturers and the assholes.
He has delivered no CHANGE whatsoever.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30414570</id>
	<title>Re:Fail: Dealing with Police 101</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260638040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to travel to and from the USA from Europe quite regularly. This was in the years soon after 9/11. I was "questioned" by customs/immigrations officials as to why i was coming back again and again every 80 days or so.</p><p>I explained (truthfully) that i was wealthy didnt need to work was and visiting my girlfriend on a tourist visa and complying with the terms of the visa, leaving the country, going home staying for a week or so, then returning to USA to be with her, this is completely legal behaviour.</p><p>So we had a little conversation about how good for the economy it was to have foreigners come over and spend foreign money in the usa. Eventually the official told me that we should get married if i wanted to continue to come to the USA. So an official of the US customs immigration TOLD ME TO GET MARRIED TO MY AMERICAN GIRLFRIEND SO THAT I CAN COME TO THE USA! Fair enough, but correct me if im wrong, but getting married to gain entry to the USA is illegal, no?</p><p>Not being prepared to marry my gf yet, I asked this lady if she was married. She said yes, twice, she was divorced. Being young and naive, i made a fatal mistake. I told her she wasnt really in a position to be giving out marriage advice then. BOOM! Having not been harrassed before, for a year or so after this conversation i was "randomly" selected on every flight i took into and across the USA! Of course they even told me it was random, but its not random if you can predict it!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to travel to and from the USA from Europe quite regularly .
This was in the years soon after 9/11 .
I was " questioned " by customs/immigrations officials as to why i was coming back again and again every 80 days or so.I explained ( truthfully ) that i was wealthy didnt need to work was and visiting my girlfriend on a tourist visa and complying with the terms of the visa , leaving the country , going home staying for a week or so , then returning to USA to be with her , this is completely legal behaviour.So we had a little conversation about how good for the economy it was to have foreigners come over and spend foreign money in the usa .
Eventually the official told me that we should get married if i wanted to continue to come to the USA .
So an official of the US customs immigration TOLD ME TO GET MARRIED TO MY AMERICAN GIRLFRIEND SO THAT I CAN COME TO THE USA !
Fair enough , but correct me if im wrong , but getting married to gain entry to the USA is illegal , no ? Not being prepared to marry my gf yet , I asked this lady if she was married .
She said yes , twice , she was divorced .
Being young and naive , i made a fatal mistake .
I told her she wasnt really in a position to be giving out marriage advice then .
BOOM ! Having not been harrassed before , for a year or so after this conversation i was " randomly " selected on every flight i took into and across the USA !
Of course they even told me it was random , but its not random if you can predict it !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to travel to and from the USA from Europe quite regularly.
This was in the years soon after 9/11.
I was "questioned" by customs/immigrations officials as to why i was coming back again and again every 80 days or so.I explained (truthfully) that i was wealthy didnt need to work was and visiting my girlfriend on a tourist visa and complying with the terms of the visa, leaving the country, going home staying for a week or so, then returning to USA to be with her, this is completely legal behaviour.So we had a little conversation about how good for the economy it was to have foreigners come over and spend foreign money in the usa.
Eventually the official told me that we should get married if i wanted to continue to come to the USA.
So an official of the US customs immigration TOLD ME TO GET MARRIED TO MY AMERICAN GIRLFRIEND SO THAT I CAN COME TO THE USA!
Fair enough, but correct me if im wrong, but getting married to gain entry to the USA is illegal, no?Not being prepared to marry my gf yet, I asked this lady if she was married.
She said yes, twice, she was divorced.
Being young and naive, i made a fatal mistake.
I told her she wasnt really in a position to be giving out marriage advice then.
BOOM! Having not been harrassed before, for a year or so after this conversation i was "randomly" selected on every flight i took into and across the USA!
Of course they even told me it was random, but its not random if you can predict it!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410532</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411188</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260555180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Handguns are not illegal in Canada.  Most are \_restricted\_ and some are prohibited.  Any Canadian citizen can take a restricted firearms course and apply for a restricted license and then purchase and acquire handguns which are classified as restricted.  Prohibited firearms can only be acquired/possessed by licensed citizens who have been grandfathered into the new regulations.</p><p>But I agree, the only threat at the border is people bringing in guns and selling them to Toronto street gangs.  Hell, I'm on the other side of the country and I'm afraid of Toronto street gangs.  Keeps me awake at night.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Handguns are not illegal in Canada .
Most are \ _restricted \ _ and some are prohibited .
Any Canadian citizen can take a restricted firearms course and apply for a restricted license and then purchase and acquire handguns which are classified as restricted .
Prohibited firearms can only be acquired/possessed by licensed citizens who have been grandfathered into the new regulations.But I agree , the only threat at the border is people bringing in guns and selling them to Toronto street gangs .
Hell , I 'm on the other side of the country and I 'm afraid of Toronto street gangs .
Keeps me awake at night .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Handguns are not illegal in Canada.
Most are \_restricted\_ and some are prohibited.
Any Canadian citizen can take a restricted firearms course and apply for a restricted license and then purchase and acquire handguns which are classified as restricted.
Prohibited firearms can only be acquired/possessed by licensed citizens who have been grandfathered into the new regulations.But I agree, the only threat at the border is people bringing in guns and selling them to Toronto street gangs.
Hell, I'm on the other side of the country and I'm afraid of Toronto street gangs.
Keeps me awake at night.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409902</id>
	<title>Re:Let's not leap to conclusions.</title>
	<author>crackpot</author>
	<datestamp>1260543960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Right on target and I couldn't agree more.  I can't count how many times I've crossed the border having had to endure the clearly condescending "how are you sir?"; "please exit the vehicle sir"; "what is your business in the U.S. sir?"; "please open the trunk sir"; "you may return to your vehicle sir", "blah, blah, blah, blah" all the time knowing that these untrained armed goons purportedly there to "protect the border" are all really nothing more than sociopathic power freaks.</p><p>This is a clear indication of the decline of western society.  We all know that it's our god given right to be rude, uncooperative, beligerent and generally unsocial towards "authority" without having to concern ourselves with the consequences of our actions.  These guards are probably all redneck dog-beaters anyway that deserve whatever unholy hell Watts' attorney can dish.</p><p>We all know the same applies to all social activists, librarians, transit workers and tech support personnel...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Right on target and I could n't agree more .
I ca n't count how many times I 've crossed the border having had to endure the clearly condescending " how are you sir ?
" ; " please exit the vehicle sir " ; " what is your business in the U.S .
sir ? " ; " please open the trunk sir " ; " you may return to your vehicle sir " , " blah , blah , blah , blah " all the time knowing that these untrained armed goons purportedly there to " protect the border " are all really nothing more than sociopathic power freaks.This is a clear indication of the decline of western society .
We all know that it 's our god given right to be rude , uncooperative , beligerent and generally unsocial towards " authority " without having to concern ourselves with the consequences of our actions .
These guards are probably all redneck dog-beaters anyway that deserve whatever unholy hell Watts ' attorney can dish.We all know the same applies to all social activists , librarians , transit workers and tech support personnel.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Right on target and I couldn't agree more.
I can't count how many times I've crossed the border having had to endure the clearly condescending "how are you sir?
"; "please exit the vehicle sir"; "what is your business in the U.S.
sir?"; "please open the trunk sir"; "you may return to your vehicle sir", "blah, blah, blah, blah" all the time knowing that these untrained armed goons purportedly there to "protect the border" are all really nothing more than sociopathic power freaks.This is a clear indication of the decline of western society.
We all know that it's our god given right to be rude, uncooperative, beligerent and generally unsocial towards "authority" without having to concern ourselves with the consequences of our actions.
These guards are probably all redneck dog-beaters anyway that deserve whatever unholy hell Watts' attorney can dish.We all know the same applies to all social activists, librarians, transit workers and tech support personnel...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409412</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411118</id>
	<title>Re:learn the law, son</title>
	<author>Maxo-Texas</author>
	<datestamp>1260554220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080806085036AAUQ7oh" title="yahoo.com">http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080806085036AAUQ7oh</a> [yahoo.com]</p><p>Are United States Citizens required to carry an ID at all times?</p><p>No.</p><p>However, it references to john gilmore case which shows you either do or do not need an ID to fly because of some secret laws and the mood of the TSA at that particular airport.</p><p>Interesting comments here-- a statement that you don't have to have id and some commentary on how the police can pull you over legally in a car for no reason at all and the court even says that the laws are now so complex that you can't obey them all- but "a violation is still a violation".<br><a href="http://www.thewashcycle.com/2009/02/possible-police-harassment.html" title="thewashcycle.com">http://www.thewashcycle.com/2009/02/possible-police-harassment.html</a> [thewashcycle.com]</p><p>okay... finally a legal site,<br><a href="http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/probable-cause-under-wa-state-laws--can-police-ask-7100.html" title="avvo.com">http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/probable-cause-under-wa-state-laws--can-police-ask-7100.html</a> [avvo.com]<br>this may be valid in washington only not in some states... but for what it's worth...</p><p>Question police stop:  do the police have a right to stop me and ask for Identification while I am walking down the street<br>Lawyer's answer: Yes they do and you have the right to say no and walk away. Unless they have reasonable suspicion you have committed a crime they have no legal basis to stop you.</p><p>But note John M. Kaman's reply...<br>The cops nightsticked his client from behind as he walked away and then charged him with resisting arrest.</p><p>---</p><p>On a related note (and a relational note), I had a younger cousin who became a cop.  I got to see a nice young man turn into a thug with "funny" stories about abusing his authority over civilians.<br>power corrupts.</p><p>We've just about sold ourselves down the river where we can't fight back any more.  It's come so far since the 1950's.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //answers.yahoo.com/question/index ? qid = 20080806085036AAUQ7oh [ yahoo.com ] Are United States Citizens required to carry an ID at all times ? No.However , it references to john gilmore case which shows you either do or do not need an ID to fly because of some secret laws and the mood of the TSA at that particular airport.Interesting comments here-- a statement that you do n't have to have id and some commentary on how the police can pull you over legally in a car for no reason at all and the court even says that the laws are now so complex that you ca n't obey them all- but " a violation is still a violation " .http : //www.thewashcycle.com/2009/02/possible-police-harassment.html [ thewashcycle.com ] okay... finally a legal site,http : //www.avvo.com/legal-answers/probable-cause-under-wa-state-laws--can-police-ask-7100.html [ avvo.com ] this may be valid in washington only not in some states... but for what it 's worth...Question police stop : do the police have a right to stop me and ask for Identification while I am walking down the streetLawyer 's answer : Yes they do and you have the right to say no and walk away .
Unless they have reasonable suspicion you have committed a crime they have no legal basis to stop you.But note John M. Kaman 's reply...The cops nightsticked his client from behind as he walked away and then charged him with resisting arrest.---On a related note ( and a relational note ) , I had a younger cousin who became a cop .
I got to see a nice young man turn into a thug with " funny " stories about abusing his authority over civilians.power corrupts.We 've just about sold ourselves down the river where we ca n't fight back any more .
It 's come so far since the 1950 's .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080806085036AAUQ7oh [yahoo.com]Are United States Citizens required to carry an ID at all times?No.However, it references to john gilmore case which shows you either do or do not need an ID to fly because of some secret laws and the mood of the TSA at that particular airport.Interesting comments here-- a statement that you don't have to have id and some commentary on how the police can pull you over legally in a car for no reason at all and the court even says that the laws are now so complex that you can't obey them all- but "a violation is still a violation".http://www.thewashcycle.com/2009/02/possible-police-harassment.html [thewashcycle.com]okay... finally a legal site,http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/probable-cause-under-wa-state-laws--can-police-ask-7100.html [avvo.com]this may be valid in washington only not in some states... but for what it's worth...Question police stop:  do the police have a right to stop me and ask for Identification while I am walking down the streetLawyer's answer: Yes they do and you have the right to say no and walk away.
Unless they have reasonable suspicion you have committed a crime they have no legal basis to stop you.But note John M. Kaman's reply...The cops nightsticked his client from behind as he walked away and then charged him with resisting arrest.---On a related note (and a relational note), I had a younger cousin who became a cop.
I got to see a nice young man turn into a thug with "funny" stories about abusing his authority over civilians.power corrupts.We've just about sold ourselves down the river where we can't fight back any more.
It's come so far since the 1950's.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410488</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30415122</id>
	<title>The Chicago Way</title>
	<author>Igarden2</author>
	<datestamp>1260641940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think you miss the point of much of this.  This seems to fit the script of our new administration's bullying tactics.  If you fail to knuckle under, well, there will be consequences.  It's the 'Chicago Way'.  Truth and fairness have no venue here.  Power is all that matters.  Yes, in this town Money = Power and if you buck the system, you are going to lose.  Oh, did I mention that I'm from Chicago ?   Keep your head down and your mouth shut if you know what's good for you. It's all part of the 'Chicago Way'.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you miss the point of much of this .
This seems to fit the script of our new administration 's bullying tactics .
If you fail to knuckle under , well , there will be consequences .
It 's the 'Chicago Way' .
Truth and fairness have no venue here .
Power is all that matters .
Yes , in this town Money = Power and if you buck the system , you are going to lose .
Oh , did I mention that I 'm from Chicago ?
Keep your head down and your mouth shut if you know what 's good for you .
It 's all part of the 'Chicago Way' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you miss the point of much of this.
This seems to fit the script of our new administration's bullying tactics.
If you fail to knuckle under, well, there will be consequences.
It's the 'Chicago Way'.
Truth and fairness have no venue here.
Power is all that matters.
Yes, in this town Money = Power and if you buck the system, you are going to lose.
Oh, did I mention that I'm from Chicago ?
Keep your head down and your mouth shut if you know what's good for you.
It's all part of the 'Chicago Way'.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30415272</id>
	<title>Re:Fail: Dealing with Police 101</title>
	<author>Jesus\_666</author>
	<datestamp>1260642900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They're virtually identical to what I usually hear about dealing with US cops: Reduce any interaction to the neccessary minimum, never mention anything you don't absolutely need to mention, never get out of or into a car unless told to, never touch them under any circumstances. Deviating from that behavior means you're fair game to either arrest or to have a criminal investigation constructed against out of anything you said.<br>
<br>
The US border is rights-less. You're not inside the USA proper and have no rights under US law. In short: Be double-careful or the border guards can screw you over in ways that would get their asses put in jail were you inside the country. Unless they manage to commit a gross human rights violation, expect the border guards to get away with everything they do.<br>
<br>
In short: Only cross the US border when really neccessary, in either direction.</htmltext>
<tokenext>They 're virtually identical to what I usually hear about dealing with US cops : Reduce any interaction to the neccessary minimum , never mention anything you do n't absolutely need to mention , never get out of or into a car unless told to , never touch them under any circumstances .
Deviating from that behavior means you 're fair game to either arrest or to have a criminal investigation constructed against out of anything you said .
The US border is rights-less .
You 're not inside the USA proper and have no rights under US law .
In short : Be double-careful or the border guards can screw you over in ways that would get their asses put in jail were you inside the country .
Unless they manage to commit a gross human rights violation , expect the border guards to get away with everything they do .
In short : Only cross the US border when really neccessary , in either direction .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They're virtually identical to what I usually hear about dealing with US cops: Reduce any interaction to the neccessary minimum, never mention anything you don't absolutely need to mention, never get out of or into a car unless told to, never touch them under any circumstances.
Deviating from that behavior means you're fair game to either arrest or to have a criminal investigation constructed against out of anything you said.
The US border is rights-less.
You're not inside the USA proper and have no rights under US law.
In short: Be double-careful or the border guards can screw you over in ways that would get their asses put in jail were you inside the country.
Unless they manage to commit a gross human rights violation, expect the border guards to get away with everything they do.
In short: Only cross the US border when really neccessary, in either direction.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409890</id>
	<title>Wow</title>
	<author>jimpop</author>
	<datestamp>1260543900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow, no one has blamed Bush yet, what happened to everybody?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow , no one has blamed Bush yet , what happened to everybody ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow, no one has blamed Bush yet, what happened to everybody?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411390</id>
	<title>Re:Not worth it.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260557040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Good. We only like your beer here anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Good .
We only like your beer here anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good.
We only like your beer here anyway.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409932</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30414674</id>
	<title>Re:I'm entirely inclined to believe Watts</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260638760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My family had similar impressions this summer.  As we approached the border from Canada, the guard came walking out of the building with his hand on his gun.  He asked the kids many questions that really confused them and had them thinking something was wrong.  Coming back was the exact opposite.  I don't think the female Canadian guard could have left her chair even if she wanted to, due to her size.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My family had similar impressions this summer .
As we approached the border from Canada , the guard came walking out of the building with his hand on his gun .
He asked the kids many questions that really confused them and had them thinking something was wrong .
Coming back was the exact opposite .
I do n't think the female Canadian guard could have left her chair even if she wanted to , due to her size .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My family had similar impressions this summer.
As we approached the border from Canada, the guard came walking out of the building with his hand on his gun.
He asked the kids many questions that really confused them and had them thinking something was wrong.
Coming back was the exact opposite.
I don't think the female Canadian guard could have left her chair even if she wanted to, due to her size.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409918</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30413782</id>
	<title>Just stay in the car.</title>
	<author>Sowelu</author>
	<datestamp>1260631920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>According to an update in the Boing Boing article, Watts got out of the car to ask what was happening -- presumably because his car and/or person was being searched. When the officers refused to answer and told him to get back in the car, he asked the question again. At which point he was attacked, his property was seized, and he was asked to waive his Miranda rights.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
Er, I understand that some cops can be kind of dicks--more than kind of, sometimes--but when a cop tells you to get back in your car, you DO IT.  If you get pulled over for speeding or a broken tail light and you get out of your car, the cop is probably going to draw his gun, and I have zero qualms with that.
<br> <br>
You have a problem with what the cops are doing, you deal with it later.  You don't deal with it while they're searching your car, by getting OUT of your car.  They search because they think something's up, and you really, really don't want to support that idea.  They're in charge...and they're just thinking about going home to their families at the end of the day.  Some guy starts acting belligerent, not following directions, putting himself in a potentially threatening posture, and yeah, at one end of the bell curve, you're going to get overreacting cops.  But I figure it's at least half your fault if you're doing that stuff.
<br> <br>
Really, what did he even think he was going to accomplish?  Was he going to say "Hey, guys, please don't open my trunk"?  If the cops decide they want to search your car, they ARE GOING TO search your car.  And honestly, at a border crossing, I don't mind.
<br> <br>
So he got chucked in a cell.  Sorry, guy.  Somewhere along the chain of communication, someone said "He was acting all belligerent at the border crossing and trying to stop us from searching his car", and someone else said "Ugh, I don't know what else to do with him right now, chuck him in a cell until my superior can handle him".  Outliers happen.  Yeah, please continue to post stories when this stuff happens--but right now it doesn't happen enough to scare me.  Right now it just seems like a very reasonable tail end of the bell curve.  I don't see malice, I just see people who weren't at their best...and guy who decides to raise a fuss and get out of his car is one of those people.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>According to an update in the Boing Boing article , Watts got out of the car to ask what was happening -- presumably because his car and/or person was being searched .
When the officers refused to answer and told him to get back in the car , he asked the question again .
At which point he was attacked , his property was seized , and he was asked to waive his Miranda rights .
Er , I understand that some cops can be kind of dicks--more than kind of , sometimes--but when a cop tells you to get back in your car , you DO IT .
If you get pulled over for speeding or a broken tail light and you get out of your car , the cop is probably going to draw his gun , and I have zero qualms with that .
You have a problem with what the cops are doing , you deal with it later .
You do n't deal with it while they 're searching your car , by getting OUT of your car .
They search because they think something 's up , and you really , really do n't want to support that idea .
They 're in charge...and they 're just thinking about going home to their families at the end of the day .
Some guy starts acting belligerent , not following directions , putting himself in a potentially threatening posture , and yeah , at one end of the bell curve , you 're going to get overreacting cops .
But I figure it 's at least half your fault if you 're doing that stuff .
Really , what did he even think he was going to accomplish ?
Was he going to say " Hey , guys , please do n't open my trunk " ?
If the cops decide they want to search your car , they ARE GOING TO search your car .
And honestly , at a border crossing , I do n't mind .
So he got chucked in a cell .
Sorry , guy .
Somewhere along the chain of communication , someone said " He was acting all belligerent at the border crossing and trying to stop us from searching his car " , and someone else said " Ugh , I do n't know what else to do with him right now , chuck him in a cell until my superior can handle him " .
Outliers happen .
Yeah , please continue to post stories when this stuff happens--but right now it does n't happen enough to scare me .
Right now it just seems like a very reasonable tail end of the bell curve .
I do n't see malice , I just see people who were n't at their best...and guy who decides to raise a fuss and get out of his car is one of those people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>According to an update in the Boing Boing article, Watts got out of the car to ask what was happening -- presumably because his car and/or person was being searched.
When the officers refused to answer and told him to get back in the car, he asked the question again.
At which point he was attacked, his property was seized, and he was asked to waive his Miranda rights.
Er, I understand that some cops can be kind of dicks--more than kind of, sometimes--but when a cop tells you to get back in your car, you DO IT.
If you get pulled over for speeding or a broken tail light and you get out of your car, the cop is probably going to draw his gun, and I have zero qualms with that.
You have a problem with what the cops are doing, you deal with it later.
You don't deal with it while they're searching your car, by getting OUT of your car.
They search because they think something's up, and you really, really don't want to support that idea.
They're in charge...and they're just thinking about going home to their families at the end of the day.
Some guy starts acting belligerent, not following directions, putting himself in a potentially threatening posture, and yeah, at one end of the bell curve, you're going to get overreacting cops.
But I figure it's at least half your fault if you're doing that stuff.
Really, what did he even think he was going to accomplish?
Was he going to say "Hey, guys, please don't open my trunk"?
If the cops decide they want to search your car, they ARE GOING TO search your car.
And honestly, at a border crossing, I don't mind.
So he got chucked in a cell.
Sorry, guy.
Somewhere along the chain of communication, someone said "He was acting all belligerent at the border crossing and trying to stop us from searching his car", and someone else said "Ugh, I don't know what else to do with him right now, chuck him in a cell until my superior can handle him".
Outliers happen.
Yeah, please continue to post stories when this stuff happens--but right now it doesn't happen enough to scare me.
Right now it just seems like a very reasonable tail end of the bell curve.
I don't see malice, I just see people who weren't at their best...and guy who decides to raise a fuss and get out of his car is one of those people.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409406</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409748</id>
	<title>Re:Let's not leap to conclusions.</title>
	<author>biryokumaru</author>
	<datestamp>1260542940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Okay, I'm tired of this crap. It should never be a mistake to ask why you're being detained. Ever. Whenever we started having to kowtow to the police we entered a police state.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Okay , I 'm tired of this crap .
It should never be a mistake to ask why you 're being detained .
Ever. Whenever we started having to kowtow to the police we entered a police state .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Okay, I'm tired of this crap.
It should never be a mistake to ask why you're being detained.
Ever. Whenever we started having to kowtow to the police we entered a police state.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411344</id>
	<title>Re:Reason for Charge</title>
	<author>McDozer</author>
	<datestamp>1260556620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>He was fully in his right to ask why his car was being searched.  He did not have to consent to having his car searched to begin with officers need a warrant to do this.  Anytime an officer asked to search my car I politely refuse.  I have nothing to hide but I do not enjoy all the contents of my car being strewn about and torn apart so that I later have to put everything back where it belongs.  Often police searching your vehicle have no respect whatsoever for your personal property and will toss it everywhere.

I am always very polite when I interact with officers of the law and I would say probably 80\% of the time I am met with rudeness and an overall dickhead attitude that is undeserved.  I do not care if your job sucks, if it is so bad you act like a dickhead to everyone you interact with then quit.  I think one of the major problems is the overall intellect of most officers is not very high.  Most local police officers did poorly in high school and never sought education past that.  It scares me so much to know that someone who is less intelligent than me and often bullishly ignorant has so much power over my life.  One of the posters mentioned...'so fight it in court'.  Well I for one never want it to end up in court.  The fact that it resulted in a court case means I probably spent time in the county jail and had to pay bail or either sit there for 4 months waiting for my trial thereby interrupting my life and probably resulting in a loss of my job and hurting my credit score all because of some bullshit charge that should have never been made to start with.

My house caught on fire recently and I called the local fire department and as always the police came with them to the scene.  I had a friend staying with me that night, he had been going through some hard times with his fiance and needed someone to talk with, since it was late and an hour drive back to his house I told him to just stay with me.  While the fire department were putting out the fire one of the officers start circling his vehicle and shining his flashlight in the windows.  My friend who was upset about the situation asked the officer, 'Hey man, since you are looking all in my truck did you want to search it or something?' .  The officer responded that yes he would like to search the vehicle.  Having nothing to hide my friend unlocked his doors and let the officer search his car.  My question here is.....why the hell did the officer even look in there in the first place?!?  I called the fire department because my house had caught on fire not because I suspected my friend had drugs on him or something.  It was total bullshit.  Just one more of the interactions I've had with law enforcement that has soured my opinion of them.

I also had some 10-13 year old kids vandalize my car ( at 11:30PM on a saturday night at a gas station......why the hell the attendant had not called the police to report a gang of 10 very young kids hanging out in front of the station for that late is beyond me, they were standing out there harassing everyone who came in and out of the store and being a bunch of little punk asses).  When I called the police to do a report the guy showed up and was being a HUGE dickhead.  Hey buddy, I'm the victim here, don't come over and act like an asshole to me because I need a police report done.

When confronted with an officer of the law the best thing you can do is assume they are going to be incredibly rude and act like the biggest dickhead you have ever met, just be as polite and respectful as you possibly can and hope they don't want to start some shit with you if they do you are pretty much screwed since they can make up shit all the want and generally be believed.  Whether you win in court or not is not the question, if they want you to you will spend time in the county and face charges from which you will have to be bailed out on which whether you were innocent or guilty will hurt your reputation and have other unwanted effects on your life.</htmltext>
<tokenext>He was fully in his right to ask why his car was being searched .
He did not have to consent to having his car searched to begin with officers need a warrant to do this .
Anytime an officer asked to search my car I politely refuse .
I have nothing to hide but I do not enjoy all the contents of my car being strewn about and torn apart so that I later have to put everything back where it belongs .
Often police searching your vehicle have no respect whatsoever for your personal property and will toss it everywhere .
I am always very polite when I interact with officers of the law and I would say probably 80 \ % of the time I am met with rudeness and an overall dickhead attitude that is undeserved .
I do not care if your job sucks , if it is so bad you act like a dickhead to everyone you interact with then quit .
I think one of the major problems is the overall intellect of most officers is not very high .
Most local police officers did poorly in high school and never sought education past that .
It scares me so much to know that someone who is less intelligent than me and often bullishly ignorant has so much power over my life .
One of the posters mentioned...'so fight it in court' .
Well I for one never want it to end up in court .
The fact that it resulted in a court case means I probably spent time in the county jail and had to pay bail or either sit there for 4 months waiting for my trial thereby interrupting my life and probably resulting in a loss of my job and hurting my credit score all because of some bullshit charge that should have never been made to start with .
My house caught on fire recently and I called the local fire department and as always the police came with them to the scene .
I had a friend staying with me that night , he had been going through some hard times with his fiance and needed someone to talk with , since it was late and an hour drive back to his house I told him to just stay with me .
While the fire department were putting out the fire one of the officers start circling his vehicle and shining his flashlight in the windows .
My friend who was upset about the situation asked the officer , 'Hey man , since you are looking all in my truck did you want to search it or something ?
' .
The officer responded that yes he would like to search the vehicle .
Having nothing to hide my friend unlocked his doors and let the officer search his car .
My question here is.....why the hell did the officer even look in there in the first place ? ! ?
I called the fire department because my house had caught on fire not because I suspected my friend had drugs on him or something .
It was total bullshit .
Just one more of the interactions I 've had with law enforcement that has soured my opinion of them .
I also had some 10-13 year old kids vandalize my car ( at 11 : 30PM on a saturday night at a gas station......why the hell the attendant had not called the police to report a gang of 10 very young kids hanging out in front of the station for that late is beyond me , they were standing out there harassing everyone who came in and out of the store and being a bunch of little punk asses ) .
When I called the police to do a report the guy showed up and was being a HUGE dickhead .
Hey buddy , I 'm the victim here , do n't come over and act like an asshole to me because I need a police report done .
When confronted with an officer of the law the best thing you can do is assume they are going to be incredibly rude and act like the biggest dickhead you have ever met , just be as polite and respectful as you possibly can and hope they do n't want to start some shit with you if they do you are pretty much screwed since they can make up shit all the want and generally be believed .
Whether you win in court or not is not the question , if they want you to you will spend time in the county and face charges from which you will have to be bailed out on which whether you were innocent or guilty will hurt your reputation and have other unwanted effects on your life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He was fully in his right to ask why his car was being searched.
He did not have to consent to having his car searched to begin with officers need a warrant to do this.
Anytime an officer asked to search my car I politely refuse.
I have nothing to hide but I do not enjoy all the contents of my car being strewn about and torn apart so that I later have to put everything back where it belongs.
Often police searching your vehicle have no respect whatsoever for your personal property and will toss it everywhere.
I am always very polite when I interact with officers of the law and I would say probably 80\% of the time I am met with rudeness and an overall dickhead attitude that is undeserved.
I do not care if your job sucks, if it is so bad you act like a dickhead to everyone you interact with then quit.
I think one of the major problems is the overall intellect of most officers is not very high.
Most local police officers did poorly in high school and never sought education past that.
It scares me so much to know that someone who is less intelligent than me and often bullishly ignorant has so much power over my life.
One of the posters mentioned...'so fight it in court'.
Well I for one never want it to end up in court.
The fact that it resulted in a court case means I probably spent time in the county jail and had to pay bail or either sit there for 4 months waiting for my trial thereby interrupting my life and probably resulting in a loss of my job and hurting my credit score all because of some bullshit charge that should have never been made to start with.
My house caught on fire recently and I called the local fire department and as always the police came with them to the scene.
I had a friend staying with me that night, he had been going through some hard times with his fiance and needed someone to talk with, since it was late and an hour drive back to his house I told him to just stay with me.
While the fire department were putting out the fire one of the officers start circling his vehicle and shining his flashlight in the windows.
My friend who was upset about the situation asked the officer, 'Hey man, since you are looking all in my truck did you want to search it or something?
' .
The officer responded that yes he would like to search the vehicle.
Having nothing to hide my friend unlocked his doors and let the officer search his car.
My question here is.....why the hell did the officer even look in there in the first place?!?
I called the fire department because my house had caught on fire not because I suspected my friend had drugs on him or something.
It was total bullshit.
Just one more of the interactions I've had with law enforcement that has soured my opinion of them.
I also had some 10-13 year old kids vandalize my car ( at 11:30PM on a saturday night at a gas station......why the hell the attendant had not called the police to report a gang of 10 very young kids hanging out in front of the station for that late is beyond me, they were standing out there harassing everyone who came in and out of the store and being a bunch of little punk asses).
When I called the police to do a report the guy showed up and was being a HUGE dickhead.
Hey buddy, I'm the victim here, don't come over and act like an asshole to me because I need a police report done.
When confronted with an officer of the law the best thing you can do is assume they are going to be incredibly rude and act like the biggest dickhead you have ever met, just be as polite and respectful as you possibly can and hope they don't want to start some shit with you if they do you are pretty much screwed since they can make up shit all the want and generally be believed.
Whether you win in court or not is not the question, if they want you to you will spend time in the county and face charges from which you will have to be bailed out on which whether you were innocent or guilty will hurt your reputation and have other unwanted effects on your life.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409406</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409912</id>
	<title>Very serious offense</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260544020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"one can assume Watts did so by hitting the officer's hand with his face."</p><p>He's lucky he didn't hit the officer's knee with his testicles.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" one can assume Watts did so by hitting the officer 's hand with his face .
" He 's lucky he did n't hit the officer 's knee with his testicles .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"one can assume Watts did so by hitting the officer's hand with his face.
"He's lucky he didn't hit the officer's knee with his testicles.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410904</id>
	<title>Another outrage story?</title>
	<author>crucini</author>
	<datestamp>1260552120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I realize that what I'm about to say might not appeal to you.  Please try to keep an open mind.</p><p>I've been reading Slashdot since about 1999.  I've seen a lot of "outrage stories".  Stories intended to get your blood pressure shooting through the roof.  And they used to work on me.</p><p>Remember when Iraq invaded Kuwait?  The story was circulated that Iraqi soldiers were taking premature babies out of incubators and throwing them on the ground.  Turned out to be a total fabrication, created by Kuwait to get the US into the war.  It worked.</p><p>Every controversy has two sides.  No sane court will convict without hearing both sides.  "There are two sides to every beef."</p><p>The "outrage story" is <b>always</b> based on giving you only one side.  And it works - until you're old enough to recognize it.</p><p>Realize that every person who had an unpleasant contact with these border guards could tell a similar story.  Only one in a 100 will recognize his own mistake.  The majority will claim that he was nice, and the other guy created the problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I realize that what I 'm about to say might not appeal to you .
Please try to keep an open mind.I 've been reading Slashdot since about 1999 .
I 've seen a lot of " outrage stories " .
Stories intended to get your blood pressure shooting through the roof .
And they used to work on me.Remember when Iraq invaded Kuwait ?
The story was circulated that Iraqi soldiers were taking premature babies out of incubators and throwing them on the ground .
Turned out to be a total fabrication , created by Kuwait to get the US into the war .
It worked.Every controversy has two sides .
No sane court will convict without hearing both sides .
" There are two sides to every beef .
" The " outrage story " is always based on giving you only one side .
And it works - until you 're old enough to recognize it.Realize that every person who had an unpleasant contact with these border guards could tell a similar story .
Only one in a 100 will recognize his own mistake .
The majority will claim that he was nice , and the other guy created the problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I realize that what I'm about to say might not appeal to you.
Please try to keep an open mind.I've been reading Slashdot since about 1999.
I've seen a lot of "outrage stories".
Stories intended to get your blood pressure shooting through the roof.
And they used to work on me.Remember when Iraq invaded Kuwait?
The story was circulated that Iraqi soldiers were taking premature babies out of incubators and throwing them on the ground.
Turned out to be a total fabrication, created by Kuwait to get the US into the war.
It worked.Every controversy has two sides.
No sane court will convict without hearing both sides.
"There are two sides to every beef.
"The "outrage story" is always based on giving you only one side.
And it works - until you're old enough to recognize it.Realize that every person who had an unpleasant contact with these border guards could tell a similar story.
Only one in a 100 will recognize his own mistake.
The majority will claim that he was nice, and the other guy created the problem.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409744</id>
	<title>Chicago Olympics</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260542940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some people think Chicago didn't get the games because of border issues.</p><p>Athletes' families, friends, blabla all getting in the states? What about North Korean athletes? Iranians and so on</p><p>Don't know if this incident is true but this is just another one (real or not) that shows how bad the experience can be.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some people think Chicago did n't get the games because of border issues.Athletes ' families , friends , blabla all getting in the states ?
What about North Korean athletes ?
Iranians and so onDo n't know if this incident is true but this is just another one ( real or not ) that shows how bad the experience can be .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some people think Chicago didn't get the games because of border issues.Athletes' families, friends, blabla all getting in the states?
What about North Korean athletes?
Iranians and so onDon't know if this incident is true but this is just another one (real or not) that shows how bad the experience can be.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30413898</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>smchris</author>
	<datestamp>1260632880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><em>Take a look at a map of North America, we share a huge boarder.</em></p><p>Exactly.  That's why we have to get the Predator drones flying as soon as possible.  Can't have you people coming down here for our great job market and health care.  Oh, wait....</p><p>Yeah, it's hard to believe here in the midwest that the borders can't be crossed at will.  I swear the church school my parents sent me off to when I was about 12, the capstone experience was like a six mile ONE-WAY forced march that ended in a dirt road that crossed into Canada and came up on a tourist trap.  Weird.  Sneaking into Canada on foot as a church-sanctioned childhood memory to buy maple candy and little flags.<br>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Take a look at a map of North America , we share a huge boarder.Exactly .
That 's why we have to get the Predator drones flying as soon as possible .
Ca n't have you people coming down here for our great job market and health care .
Oh , wait....Yeah , it 's hard to believe here in the midwest that the borders ca n't be crossed at will .
I swear the church school my parents sent me off to when I was about 12 , the capstone experience was like a six mile ONE-WAY forced march that ended in a dirt road that crossed into Canada and came up on a tourist trap .
Weird. Sneaking into Canada on foot as a church-sanctioned childhood memory to buy maple candy and little flags .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>Take a look at a map of North America, we share a huge boarder.Exactly.
That's why we have to get the Predator drones flying as soon as possible.
Can't have you people coming down here for our great job market and health care.
Oh, wait....Yeah, it's hard to believe here in the midwest that the borders can't be crossed at will.
I swear the church school my parents sent me off to when I was about 12, the capstone experience was like a six mile ONE-WAY forced march that ended in a dirt road that crossed into Canada and came up on a tourist trap.
Weird.  Sneaking into Canada on foot as a church-sanctioned childhood memory to buy maple candy and little flags.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30417188</id>
	<title>Thread derail</title>
	<author>jc79</author>
	<datestamp>1260612000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Cory Doctorow -- who in his novel "Little Brother" had an obvious axe to grind against Homeland Security and law enforcement, to the point of suggesting "9/11 was an inside job". (Says one of the leaflets dropped by the novel's heroic protesters.)</p></div><p>I thought the 9/11 troof reference in that scene in Little Brother was to show how every protest movement can attract crackpots and others with an axe to grind; also specifically to show how Marcus's protests were being portrayed as anti-American by the DHS.</p><p>Awesome book by the way, I got a free signed copy when I joined the <a href="http://www.openrightsgroup.org/" title="openrightsgroup.org" rel="nofollow">Open Rights Group</a> [openrightsgroup.org].</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Cory Doctorow -- who in his novel " Little Brother " had an obvious axe to grind against Homeland Security and law enforcement , to the point of suggesting " 9/11 was an inside job " .
( Says one of the leaflets dropped by the novel 's heroic protesters .
) I thought the 9/11 troof reference in that scene in Little Brother was to show how every protest movement can attract crackpots and others with an axe to grind ; also specifically to show how Marcus 's protests were being portrayed as anti-American by the DHS.Awesome book by the way , I got a free signed copy when I joined the Open Rights Group [ openrightsgroup.org ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cory Doctorow -- who in his novel "Little Brother" had an obvious axe to grind against Homeland Security and law enforcement, to the point of suggesting "9/11 was an inside job".
(Says one of the leaflets dropped by the novel's heroic protesters.
)I thought the 9/11 troof reference in that scene in Little Brother was to show how every protest movement can attract crackpots and others with an axe to grind; also specifically to show how Marcus's protests were being portrayed as anti-American by the DHS.Awesome book by the way, I got a free signed copy when I joined the Open Rights Group [openrightsgroup.org].
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410640</id>
	<title>one thing is sure: we'll see IFF it vindicates cop</title>
	<author>JimmytheGeek</author>
	<datestamp>1260550020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>if it vindicates the guy's account, it'll get "lost" or be shielded in the name of national security for revealing camera positions.  The assaulting BP will get cover from his agency.  OTOH there will magically be no security issue if it even approaches a vindication for the cops.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>if it vindicates the guy 's account , it 'll get " lost " or be shielded in the name of national security for revealing camera positions .
The assaulting BP will get cover from his agency .
OTOH there will magically be no security issue if it even approaches a vindication for the cops .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if it vindicates the guy's account, it'll get "lost" or be shielded in the name of national security for revealing camera positions.
The assaulting BP will get cover from his agency.
OTOH there will magically be no security issue if it even approaches a vindication for the cops.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409886</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409506</id>
	<title>Re:Something stinks here...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260541260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Getting out of the car uninvited is an aggressive act</p></div><p>Sorry, <b>getting out of a car</b> is an aggressive act?!?!</p><p><b> <i>\_GETTING OUT OF A FUCKING CAR\_</i> </b>?!?!?!?!??!</p><p>Sig Heil, you fucking fascist.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Getting out of the car uninvited is an aggressive actSorry , getting out of a car is an aggressive act ? ! ? !
\ _GETTING OUT OF A FUCKING CAR \ _ ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ?
! Sig Heil , you fucking fascist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Getting out of the car uninvited is an aggressive actSorry, getting out of a car is an aggressive act?!?!
\_GETTING OUT OF A FUCKING CAR\_ ?!?!?!?!??
!Sig Heil, you fucking fascist.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409352</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30415382</id>
	<title>Re:This guy writes fiction for a living</title>
	<author>rochrist</author>
	<datestamp>1260643620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Or perhaps raise taxes so that they can afford to pay for a better form of police officer.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Or perhaps raise taxes so that they can afford to pay for a better form of police officer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or perhaps raise taxes so that they can afford to pay for a better form of police officer.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409380</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410136</id>
	<title>Re:Charges...</title>
	<author>bosef1</author>
	<datestamp>1260545880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've also favored "slamming myself into the curb" repeatedly and "throwing myself down the starirs" as methods of resisting arrest.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've also favored " slamming myself into the curb " repeatedly and " throwing myself down the starirs " as methods of resisting arrest .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've also favored "slamming myself into the curb" repeatedly and "throwing myself down the starirs" as methods of resisting arrest.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409574</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409502</id>
	<title>Boarder Security</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260541260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a Canadian I will never understand why the US is so eager about its boarder security with Canada.</p><p>Take a look at a map of North America, we share a huge boarder. If some one wanted to get across undetected, they would go to Calgary, Edmonton, etc. Buy/Rent a off-road vehicle and just drive in across some open fields. It's not hard to figure out.</p><p>Boarder security at major ports of entry just pisses everyone off and hurts trade. The most they are going to catch are some teenagers buying pot and Canadian beer. The only real threat at the CAN/US boarder is people bringing handguns into Canada (where they are illegal) and selling them to Toronto street gangs.</p><p>Now they are giving a middle aged white guy a hard time? Please, this security theatre has gone too far.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a Canadian I will never understand why the US is so eager about its boarder security with Canada.Take a look at a map of North America , we share a huge boarder .
If some one wanted to get across undetected , they would go to Calgary , Edmonton , etc .
Buy/Rent a off-road vehicle and just drive in across some open fields .
It 's not hard to figure out.Boarder security at major ports of entry just pisses everyone off and hurts trade .
The most they are going to catch are some teenagers buying pot and Canadian beer .
The only real threat at the CAN/US boarder is people bringing handguns into Canada ( where they are illegal ) and selling them to Toronto street gangs.Now they are giving a middle aged white guy a hard time ?
Please , this security theatre has gone too far .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a Canadian I will never understand why the US is so eager about its boarder security with Canada.Take a look at a map of North America, we share a huge boarder.
If some one wanted to get across undetected, they would go to Calgary, Edmonton, etc.
Buy/Rent a off-road vehicle and just drive in across some open fields.
It's not hard to figure out.Boarder security at major ports of entry just pisses everyone off and hurts trade.
The most they are going to catch are some teenagers buying pot and Canadian beer.
The only real threat at the CAN/US boarder is people bringing handguns into Canada (where they are illegal) and selling them to Toronto street gangs.Now they are giving a middle aged white guy a hard time?
Please, this security theatre has gone too far.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30418748</id>
	<title>Your Congressperson</title>
	<author>incubbus13</author>
	<datestamp>1260626520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Send a letter to your congress(person). That's the only way this kind of thing will stop, it's the only way an investigation of this incident will happen, it's the only way that 'foreigners' will be able to feel safe coming into the country.</p><p>K.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Send a letter to your congress ( person ) .
That 's the only way this kind of thing will stop , it 's the only way an investigation of this incident will happen , it 's the only way that 'foreigners ' will be able to feel safe coming into the country.K .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Send a letter to your congress(person).
That's the only way this kind of thing will stop, it's the only way an investigation of this incident will happen, it's the only way that 'foreigners' will be able to feel safe coming into the country.K.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410756</id>
	<title>Re:Always the same story...</title>
	<author>rysiek</author>
	<datestamp>1260550980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Oh for the love of... "always assume that government officials are assholes. Do what they ask, obey their orders, don't be a smartass - as a result, you will generally speaking be OK."<br> <br>
What? You gotta be shitting me. Government officials are there for you, for fsck's sake! There is no way you should acknowledge they are "assholes" and hence play along!<br> <br>
Look, I come from a nation that had to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November\_Uprising" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">fight</a> [wikipedia.org] <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January\_Uprising" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">with</a> [wikipedia.org] <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw\_Uprising" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">"governments"</a> [wikipedia.org] <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pozna\%C5\%84\_1956\_protests" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">several</a> [wikipedia.org] <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish\_1970\_protests" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">times</a> [wikipedia.org]. I have the privilege to live in a free country now, but I remember that this privilege took a lot of blood - and tears. "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance", right? That also means "no playing along with assholes in the government agencies".<br> <br>
Come on, America. You used to be cool. Seriously, do you need an occupation or something to get your act together on this?..</htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh for the love of... " always assume that government officials are assholes .
Do what they ask , obey their orders , do n't be a smartass - as a result , you will generally speaking be OK. " What ?
You got ta be shitting me .
Government officials are there for you , for fsck 's sake !
There is no way you should acknowledge they are " assholes " and hence play along !
Look , I come from a nation that had to fight [ wikipedia.org ] with [ wikipedia.org ] " governments " [ wikipedia.org ] several [ wikipedia.org ] times [ wikipedia.org ] .
I have the privilege to live in a free country now , but I remember that this privilege took a lot of blood - and tears .
" The price of freedom is eternal vigilance " , right ?
That also means " no playing along with assholes in the government agencies " .
Come on , America .
You used to be cool .
Seriously , do you need an occupation or something to get your act together on this ? . .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh for the love of... "always assume that government officials are assholes.
Do what they ask, obey their orders, don't be a smartass - as a result, you will generally speaking be OK." 
What?
You gotta be shitting me.
Government officials are there for you, for fsck's sake!
There is no way you should acknowledge they are "assholes" and hence play along!
Look, I come from a nation that had to fight [wikipedia.org] with [wikipedia.org] "governments" [wikipedia.org] several [wikipedia.org] times [wikipedia.org].
I have the privilege to live in a free country now, but I remember that this privilege took a lot of blood - and tears.
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance", right?
That also means "no playing along with assholes in the government agencies".
Come on, America.
You used to be cool.
Seriously, do you need an occupation or something to get your act together on this?..</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409372</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410212</id>
	<title>Re:Reason for Charge</title>
	<author>NitroWolf</author>
	<datestamp>1260546720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Since quite a few are asking, I figured I'd provide the pertinent sections of TFAs.</p><p>According to an update in the Boing Boing article, Watts got out of the car to ask what was happening -- presumably because his car and/or person was being searched.  When the officers refused to answer and told him to get back in the car, he asked the question again.  At which point he was attacked, his property was seized, and he was asked to waive his Miranda rights.</p><p>Sounds like the unfortunate combination of a pissed off officer and a less-that-sympathetic citizen compounded by detectives/officers who get pissed when prisoners refuse to talk.  I can empathize with both parties (first and second, not third -- right to remain silent means right to remain silent,) but -- assuming the accuracy of Watts' story -- the assault charge is probably trumped up.  Convincing a judge of that is a whole different story.</p></div><p>It probably shouldn't be too hard to convince a judge of this since, as far as I know, all border patrol stations are video taped.  I would assume they'd also have audio in there...  First thing I'd be doing, if I were truly innocent, is requesting the video for the time in question.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Since quite a few are asking , I figured I 'd provide the pertinent sections of TFAs.According to an update in the Boing Boing article , Watts got out of the car to ask what was happening -- presumably because his car and/or person was being searched .
When the officers refused to answer and told him to get back in the car , he asked the question again .
At which point he was attacked , his property was seized , and he was asked to waive his Miranda rights.Sounds like the unfortunate combination of a pissed off officer and a less-that-sympathetic citizen compounded by detectives/officers who get pissed when prisoners refuse to talk .
I can empathize with both parties ( first and second , not third -- right to remain silent means right to remain silent , ) but -- assuming the accuracy of Watts ' story -- the assault charge is probably trumped up .
Convincing a judge of that is a whole different story.It probably should n't be too hard to convince a judge of this since , as far as I know , all border patrol stations are video taped .
I would assume they 'd also have audio in there... First thing I 'd be doing , if I were truly innocent , is requesting the video for the time in question .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since quite a few are asking, I figured I'd provide the pertinent sections of TFAs.According to an update in the Boing Boing article, Watts got out of the car to ask what was happening -- presumably because his car and/or person was being searched.
When the officers refused to answer and told him to get back in the car, he asked the question again.
At which point he was attacked, his property was seized, and he was asked to waive his Miranda rights.Sounds like the unfortunate combination of a pissed off officer and a less-that-sympathetic citizen compounded by detectives/officers who get pissed when prisoners refuse to talk.
I can empathize with both parties (first and second, not third -- right to remain silent means right to remain silent,) but -- assuming the accuracy of Watts' story -- the assault charge is probably trumped up.
Convincing a judge of that is a whole different story.It probably shouldn't be too hard to convince a judge of this since, as far as I know, all border patrol stations are video taped.
I would assume they'd also have audio in there...  First thing I'd be doing, if I were truly innocent, is requesting the video for the time in question.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409406</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410688</id>
	<title>Way to go States</title>
	<author>horza</author>
	<datestamp>1260550500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is disappointing. The States has been well known for a while as the most hostile and least welcoming country in the world. I refuse to fly to the States after all the awful stories I've heard from friends that have been there (border control, the people are apparently fantastic once actually inside). However a Canadian friend suggested I fly to Canada and drive to New York (somewhere I would like to visit). However, after everybody pretty much backing up the posted story with their experiences, I guess that is out too. Not a huge loss, as the States is just one small place and there are thousands of other more friendly places to go to, but still it's a shame to cross something from my To Do list for such a reason.</p><p>Phillip.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is disappointing .
The States has been well known for a while as the most hostile and least welcoming country in the world .
I refuse to fly to the States after all the awful stories I 've heard from friends that have been there ( border control , the people are apparently fantastic once actually inside ) .
However a Canadian friend suggested I fly to Canada and drive to New York ( somewhere I would like to visit ) .
However , after everybody pretty much backing up the posted story with their experiences , I guess that is out too .
Not a huge loss , as the States is just one small place and there are thousands of other more friendly places to go to , but still it 's a shame to cross something from my To Do list for such a reason.Phillip .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is disappointing.
The States has been well known for a while as the most hostile and least welcoming country in the world.
I refuse to fly to the States after all the awful stories I've heard from friends that have been there (border control, the people are apparently fantastic once actually inside).
However a Canadian friend suggested I fly to Canada and drive to New York (somewhere I would like to visit).
However, after everybody pretty much backing up the posted story with their experiences, I guess that is out too.
Not a huge loss, as the States is just one small place and there are thousands of other more friendly places to go to, but still it's a shame to cross something from my To Do list for such a reason.Phillip.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30415234</id>
	<title>Pretty much the same here.</title>
	<author>CountBrass</author>
	<datestamp>1260642660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I visited for a week in California in the Februrary after 9/11.<br><br>On an internal flight from SF to LA I got "randomly" selected 3 times between the check in desk and the plane! I'm pretty much the exact opposite of a Muslim Terrorist. I'm white and obviously middle-class.<br><br>After we came back we began hearing reports about how it was getting even more onerous. Obstreperous TSA guards at airports etc etc so we've decided that we won't be coming back in the foreseeable future. Which is a shame as both my wife and I would love to visit SF again and Las Vegas and NY and DC: but not where there's a *perception* that any visit has the strong probability of getting into trouble at the airport.<br><br>Unlike you I don't (and never did) believe Obama, "The Black Bush", will make any difference whatsoever. A year into his lame-duck presidency and nothing has changed.<br><br>About the most effort he's made was to collect his entirely un-earned Noble Peace Prize. The committee must have a very warped sense of humour. Either that or they're just plain stupid.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I visited for a week in California in the Februrary after 9/11.On an internal flight from SF to LA I got " randomly " selected 3 times between the check in desk and the plane !
I 'm pretty much the exact opposite of a Muslim Terrorist .
I 'm white and obviously middle-class.After we came back we began hearing reports about how it was getting even more onerous .
Obstreperous TSA guards at airports etc etc so we 've decided that we wo n't be coming back in the foreseeable future .
Which is a shame as both my wife and I would love to visit SF again and Las Vegas and NY and DC : but not where there 's a * perception * that any visit has the strong probability of getting into trouble at the airport.Unlike you I do n't ( and never did ) believe Obama , " The Black Bush " , will make any difference whatsoever .
A year into his lame-duck presidency and nothing has changed.About the most effort he 's made was to collect his entirely un-earned Noble Peace Prize .
The committee must have a very warped sense of humour .
Either that or they 're just plain stupid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I visited for a week in California in the Februrary after 9/11.On an internal flight from SF to LA I got "randomly" selected 3 times between the check in desk and the plane!
I'm pretty much the exact opposite of a Muslim Terrorist.
I'm white and obviously middle-class.After we came back we began hearing reports about how it was getting even more onerous.
Obstreperous TSA guards at airports etc etc so we've decided that we won't be coming back in the foreseeable future.
Which is a shame as both my wife and I would love to visit SF again and Las Vegas and NY and DC: but not where there's a *perception* that any visit has the strong probability of getting into trouble at the airport.Unlike you I don't (and never did) believe Obama, "The Black Bush", will make any difference whatsoever.
A year into his lame-duck presidency and nothing has changed.About the most effort he's made was to collect his entirely un-earned Noble Peace Prize.
The committee must have a very warped sense of humour.
Either that or they're just plain stupid.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411744</id>
	<title>I misread the title...</title>
	<author>TangoMargarine</author>
	<datestamp>1260648240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...as "Sci-Fi Author <b>Wants Peters</b> Beaten, Charged During Border Crossing." I was having real trouble figuring out who the two parties were.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...as " Sci-Fi Author Wants Peters Beaten , Charged During Border Crossing .
" I was having real trouble figuring out who the two parties were .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...as "Sci-Fi Author Wants Peters Beaten, Charged During Border Crossing.
" I was having real trouble figuring out who the two parties were.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410684</id>
	<title>Re:learn the law, son</title>
	<author>OnlineAlias</author>
	<datestamp>1260550440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One is never, ever required to speak to a police officer, ever.  In fact, in most all situations, you are far better off if you don't.</p><p>I don't know about MA law, but if they have that one, it is unconstitutional.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One is never , ever required to speak to a police officer , ever .
In fact , in most all situations , you are far better off if you do n't.I do n't know about MA law , but if they have that one , it is unconstitutional .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One is never, ever required to speak to a police officer, ever.
In fact, in most all situations, you are far better off if you don't.I don't know about MA law, but if they have that one, it is unconstitutional.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409994</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30417036</id>
	<title>Re:Something stinks here...</title>
	<author>cyn1c77</author>
	<datestamp>1260611100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>Getting out of the car uninvited is an aggressive act</p></div><p>Sorry, <b>getting out of a car</b> is an aggressive act?!?!</p><p> <b> <i>\_GETTING OUT OF A FUCKING CAR\_</i> </b>?!?!?!?!??!</p></div><p>You may not like it, but the police consider it to be one.  At least they do in the US.  Like the AC who previously replied said, if a law enforcement or border officer stops your car and you do anything other than sit there with your car off, motionless, and with your hands in plain sight, they get very excited.  (I know this from personal experience.)</p><p>Depending on their level of experience/paranoia and their suspicion for stopping you, I think they either assume that you are going to run, shoot them, blow up the car, etc.  This doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen and it obviously something they worry about.  People doing illegal things generally don't like to be arrested or detained and some are willing to kill to get away.  </p><p>Try it from the cop's perspective.  Think about how shitty it would be to be a law enforcement officer and have to pull over and inspect a shady-looking car with tinted windows, filled with 4 male silhouettes, at night and be armed with a 9mm pistol that you can't unholster until after you see someone trying to kill you.   </p><p>Everything goes a lot smoother if you stay in the car, keep your hands on the wheel, and be polite.   </p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Getting out of the car uninvited is an aggressive actSorry , getting out of a car is an aggressive act ? ! ? !
\ _GETTING OUT OF A FUCKING CAR \ _ ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ?
! You may not like it , but the police consider it to be one .
At least they do in the US .
Like the AC who previously replied said , if a law enforcement or border officer stops your car and you do anything other than sit there with your car off , motionless , and with your hands in plain sight , they get very excited .
( I know this from personal experience .
) Depending on their level of experience/paranoia and their suspicion for stopping you , I think they either assume that you are going to run , shoot them , blow up the car , etc .
This does n't happen all the time , but it does happen and it obviously something they worry about .
People doing illegal things generally do n't like to be arrested or detained and some are willing to kill to get away .
Try it from the cop 's perspective .
Think about how shitty it would be to be a law enforcement officer and have to pull over and inspect a shady-looking car with tinted windows , filled with 4 male silhouettes , at night and be armed with a 9mm pistol that you ca n't unholster until after you see someone trying to kill you .
Everything goes a lot smoother if you stay in the car , keep your hands on the wheel , and be polite .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Getting out of the car uninvited is an aggressive actSorry, getting out of a car is an aggressive act?!?!
\_GETTING OUT OF A FUCKING CAR\_ ?!?!?!?!??
!You may not like it, but the police consider it to be one.
At least they do in the US.
Like the AC who previously replied said, if a law enforcement or border officer stops your car and you do anything other than sit there with your car off, motionless, and with your hands in plain sight, they get very excited.
(I know this from personal experience.
)Depending on their level of experience/paranoia and their suspicion for stopping you, I think they either assume that you are going to run, shoot them, blow up the car, etc.
This doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen and it obviously something they worry about.
People doing illegal things generally don't like to be arrested or detained and some are willing to kill to get away.
Try it from the cop's perspective.
Think about how shitty it would be to be a law enforcement officer and have to pull over and inspect a shady-looking car with tinted windows, filled with 4 male silhouettes, at night and be armed with a 9mm pistol that you can't unholster until after you see someone trying to kill you.
Everything goes a lot smoother if you stay in the car, keep your hands on the wheel, and be polite.   
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409506</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410922</id>
	<title>Re:Charges...</title>
	<author>ignavus</author>
	<datestamp>1260552180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know of a case where two young police officers were left staking out a house. When the senior officer returned, his young colleagues had caught someone coming out of the house and wrestled them to the ground and arrested them for resisting the police.</p><p>It turned out they had nabbed the wrong person coming out of the house - it wasn't a "person of interest" to the police, but effectively an innocent bystander. So the accused's (really the victim's) only crime was reacting "wrongly" to a sudden, mistaken arrest by a couple of inexperienced police officers who should have checked before leaping out at their prey.</p><p>The innocent person still got convicted of resisting arrest, though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know of a case where two young police officers were left staking out a house .
When the senior officer returned , his young colleagues had caught someone coming out of the house and wrestled them to the ground and arrested them for resisting the police.It turned out they had nabbed the wrong person coming out of the house - it was n't a " person of interest " to the police , but effectively an innocent bystander .
So the accused 's ( really the victim 's ) only crime was reacting " wrongly " to a sudden , mistaken arrest by a couple of inexperienced police officers who should have checked before leaping out at their prey.The innocent person still got convicted of resisting arrest , though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know of a case where two young police officers were left staking out a house.
When the senior officer returned, his young colleagues had caught someone coming out of the house and wrestled them to the ground and arrested them for resisting the police.It turned out they had nabbed the wrong person coming out of the house - it wasn't a "person of interest" to the police, but effectively an innocent bystander.
So the accused's (really the victim's) only crime was reacting "wrongly" to a sudden, mistaken arrest by a couple of inexperienced police officers who should have checked before leaping out at their prey.The innocent person still got convicted of resisting arrest, though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409294</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30413280</id>
	<title>Re:Fail: Dealing with Police 101</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260627360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You like taking it up the ass, huh?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You like taking it up the ass , huh ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You like taking it up the ass, huh?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410532</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409806</id>
	<title>Where's the video?</title>
	<author>cptdondo</author>
	<datestamp>1260543300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd guess everyone at the border is videotaped.  Where's the video?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd guess everyone at the border is videotaped .
Where 's the video ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd guess everyone at the border is videotaped.
Where's the video?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411294</id>
	<title>Re:Chicago Olympics</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260556080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It could have been.  Or it could have been that the city of Chicago is synonymous with ghettos, corruption from top to bottom, gangs, and crime.  Tough to say.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It could have been .
Or it could have been that the city of Chicago is synonymous with ghettos , corruption from top to bottom , gangs , and crime .
Tough to say .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It could have been.
Or it could have been that the city of Chicago is synonymous with ghettos, corruption from top to bottom, gangs, and crime.
Tough to say.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409744</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410352</id>
	<title>Re:Something stinks here...</title>
	<author>Eravnrekaree</author>
	<datestamp>1260547740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, that he got out of his car does not entitle officers to abandon all protocol and go on a vicious attack, arrest, beating, etc. These officers should have training to know better than this, that first the officers should show respect to citisens, they cannot have a cocky attitude that they are there to act gungho and to feel powerful. They are there to serve the people not to be a tyrant that terrorises people and who feels there commands and orders must be strictly followed or they go on a tirade. I think this case is a very disturbing one and is indicative of serious problems with our government and seems to be a most recent in a series of really disturbing, fanatical and extreme behaviours on the part of the government. Beating a person is really far beyond an officers allowed behaviour. If he refused to return to his car after many askings and being warned that he would be arrested, at most he should be arrested and then deported back. Unless you had commited some severe assault like beating the officer himself, he should not have been charged with anything.</p><p>This story definitely needs to be covered more by the media rather than more tiger woods celebrity filler BS. I have a feeling that they would rather direct peoples attention away from the rampant and decay and corruption in US government that reaches all the way to the top tier.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , that he got out of his car does not entitle officers to abandon all protocol and go on a vicious attack , arrest , beating , etc .
These officers should have training to know better than this , that first the officers should show respect to citisens , they can not have a cocky attitude that they are there to act gungho and to feel powerful .
They are there to serve the people not to be a tyrant that terrorises people and who feels there commands and orders must be strictly followed or they go on a tirade .
I think this case is a very disturbing one and is indicative of serious problems with our government and seems to be a most recent in a series of really disturbing , fanatical and extreme behaviours on the part of the government .
Beating a person is really far beyond an officers allowed behaviour .
If he refused to return to his car after many askings and being warned that he would be arrested , at most he should be arrested and then deported back .
Unless you had commited some severe assault like beating the officer himself , he should not have been charged with anything.This story definitely needs to be covered more by the media rather than more tiger woods celebrity filler BS .
I have a feeling that they would rather direct peoples attention away from the rampant and decay and corruption in US government that reaches all the way to the top tier .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, that he got out of his car does not entitle officers to abandon all protocol and go on a vicious attack, arrest, beating, etc.
These officers should have training to know better than this, that first the officers should show respect to citisens, they cannot have a cocky attitude that they are there to act gungho and to feel powerful.
They are there to serve the people not to be a tyrant that terrorises people and who feels there commands and orders must be strictly followed or they go on a tirade.
I think this case is a very disturbing one and is indicative of serious problems with our government and seems to be a most recent in a series of really disturbing, fanatical and extreme behaviours on the part of the government.
Beating a person is really far beyond an officers allowed behaviour.
If he refused to return to his car after many askings and being warned that he would be arrested, at most he should be arrested and then deported back.
Unless you had commited some severe assault like beating the officer himself, he should not have been charged with anything.This story definitely needs to be covered more by the media rather than more tiger woods celebrity filler BS.
I have a feeling that they would rather direct peoples attention away from the rampant and decay and corruption in US government that reaches all the way to the top tier.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409352</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410054</id>
	<title>You and Watts are ignorant asshats.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260544980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The east german border guards also didn't get shot at routinely. Look at it from the border guard's perspective. Armed asshole is being abrasive. Armed asshole gets out of the car to assault you. Armed asshole refuses when you try to de-escalate the situation by telling him to get back in the car. Armed asshole gets mouthy and assaults you (that's verbally accosts you, to the ignorant on slashdot). Armed asshole is now a criminal. Armed asshole reaches for his weapon. Fight on.</p><p>The cops must assume that everyone is armed until frisked. That's the only way to stay alive. I'm sorry you're perception is that the border patrol is a bunch of bullies, but their perceptive is a little more rude and first person. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hPSwshFPzVfadMmjIwIckSRrKxswD9C3FN1O2 is the most recent conviction, but hardly as rare as the news makes it out to be.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The east german border guards also did n't get shot at routinely .
Look at it from the border guard 's perspective .
Armed asshole is being abrasive .
Armed asshole gets out of the car to assault you .
Armed asshole refuses when you try to de-escalate the situation by telling him to get back in the car .
Armed asshole gets mouthy and assaults you ( that 's verbally accosts you , to the ignorant on slashdot ) .
Armed asshole is now a criminal .
Armed asshole reaches for his weapon .
Fight on.The cops must assume that everyone is armed until frisked .
That 's the only way to stay alive .
I 'm sorry you 're perception is that the border patrol is a bunch of bullies , but their perceptive is a little more rude and first person .
http : //www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hPSwshFPzVfadMmjIwIckSRrKxswD9C3FN1O2 is the most recent conviction , but hardly as rare as the news makes it out to be .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The east german border guards also didn't get shot at routinely.
Look at it from the border guard's perspective.
Armed asshole is being abrasive.
Armed asshole gets out of the car to assault you.
Armed asshole refuses when you try to de-escalate the situation by telling him to get back in the car.
Armed asshole gets mouthy and assaults you (that's verbally accosts you, to the ignorant on slashdot).
Armed asshole is now a criminal.
Armed asshole reaches for his weapon.
Fight on.The cops must assume that everyone is armed until frisked.
That's the only way to stay alive.
I'm sorry you're perception is that the border patrol is a bunch of bullies, but their perceptive is a little more rude and first person.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hPSwshFPzVfadMmjIwIckSRrKxswD9C3FN1O2 is the most recent conviction, but hardly as rare as the news makes it out to be.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30412364</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260616560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>what kind of pissing match it is to even try to get US border guards to stop them.</i></p><p>Numbskull, the US guards are there to protect the US from you, not the other way around. See your second paragraph.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>what kind of pissing match it is to even try to get US border guards to stop them.Numbskull , the US guards are there to protect the US from you , not the other way around .
See your second paragraph .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>what kind of pissing match it is to even try to get US border guards to stop them.Numbskull, the US guards are there to protect the US from you, not the other way around.
See your second paragraph.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409766</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30420298</id>
	<title>Re:maybe you have a chip on your shoulder</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260642240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I called a US port of entry in Wyoming in 2005 to ask some questions about exporting a car from the US to Canada.  At one point in the conversation the US customs agent told me, and I quote, "F*ck you buddy".  This was in response to some innoffensive question about what documentation I needed.  The tone of the conversation before this was completely neutral.  I took it to mean that I shouldn't look for any reassurances before I showed up in person.</p><p>Another time I had a can of Beefaroni confiscated while entering the US because of the mad-cow beef ban- which had been lifted the week before.</p><p>US customs agents, and INS as well who I've alson had dealings with, are thoroughly unpleasant and confrontational people.  Maybe that's a thought out organizational culture thing to empower them.  But in practice, it makes a lot of them aggressive and unprofessional.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I called a US port of entry in Wyoming in 2005 to ask some questions about exporting a car from the US to Canada .
At one point in the conversation the US customs agent told me , and I quote , " F * ck you buddy " .
This was in response to some innoffensive question about what documentation I needed .
The tone of the conversation before this was completely neutral .
I took it to mean that I should n't look for any reassurances before I showed up in person.Another time I had a can of Beefaroni confiscated while entering the US because of the mad-cow beef ban- which had been lifted the week before.US customs agents , and INS as well who I 've alson had dealings with , are thoroughly unpleasant and confrontational people .
Maybe that 's a thought out organizational culture thing to empower them .
But in practice , it makes a lot of them aggressive and unprofessional .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I called a US port of entry in Wyoming in 2005 to ask some questions about exporting a car from the US to Canada.
At one point in the conversation the US customs agent told me, and I quote, "F*ck you buddy".
This was in response to some innoffensive question about what documentation I needed.
The tone of the conversation before this was completely neutral.
I took it to mean that I shouldn't look for any reassurances before I showed up in person.Another time I had a can of Beefaroni confiscated while entering the US because of the mad-cow beef ban- which had been lifted the week before.US customs agents, and INS as well who I've alson had dealings with, are thoroughly unpleasant and confrontational people.
Maybe that's a thought out organizational culture thing to empower them.
But in practice, it makes a lot of them aggressive and unprofessional.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410316</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30412558</id>
	<title>Re:I'm entirely inclined to believe Watts</title>
	<author>wiredlogic</author>
	<datestamp>1260618540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>FWIW a lot of the "bad manners" exhibited by the US border guards are part of their training. They are basically conducting an interrogation within a brief timeline on a constant stream of largely unremarkable people. Unlike a conventional police officer they are dealing with a broad spectrum of travelers. Whereas a police officer, when questioning a problematic person, is only engaged because of what this person has done or alleged to have done the border guards are always starting with a clean slate and don't know what to expect. Their questioning is designed to put pressure on the traveler and "break" them into exposing themselves as a person of interest. Sure, some of the guards seems to get off on the power trip but the general grumpiness is part of the act so to speak.</p><p>If you cross frequently enough and analyze their pattern of questioning you can build a picture of what they've been trained to do. A lot of their questions are meant to catch you in a lie. Oftentimes you'll have the same question asked in the dialogue. That doesn't happen because the guard is forgetful, he or she is verifying that your first response was truthful. Typically it's "where are you from?" or "where were you born?". For US returnees, depending on what you were doing in Canada you will get them to jump to a common point in their interrogation "script" and you will hear certain questions pop up repeatedly. The guards are also monitoring your body language, checking for hesitant or stumbling speech, and anything else that that may be a sign that you aren't being truthful. The end result may not be a pleasant encounter but some diligence is needed to protect our border crossings.</p><p>That being said the Canadian guards tend to be more pleasant although sometimes to the point of wonder in their lack of diligence to even look at any credentials when you get waved through on a lightly used crossing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>FWIW a lot of the " bad manners " exhibited by the US border guards are part of their training .
They are basically conducting an interrogation within a brief timeline on a constant stream of largely unremarkable people .
Unlike a conventional police officer they are dealing with a broad spectrum of travelers .
Whereas a police officer , when questioning a problematic person , is only engaged because of what this person has done or alleged to have done the border guards are always starting with a clean slate and do n't know what to expect .
Their questioning is designed to put pressure on the traveler and " break " them into exposing themselves as a person of interest .
Sure , some of the guards seems to get off on the power trip but the general grumpiness is part of the act so to speak.If you cross frequently enough and analyze their pattern of questioning you can build a picture of what they 've been trained to do .
A lot of their questions are meant to catch you in a lie .
Oftentimes you 'll have the same question asked in the dialogue .
That does n't happen because the guard is forgetful , he or she is verifying that your first response was truthful .
Typically it 's " where are you from ?
" or " where were you born ? " .
For US returnees , depending on what you were doing in Canada you will get them to jump to a common point in their interrogation " script " and you will hear certain questions pop up repeatedly .
The guards are also monitoring your body language , checking for hesitant or stumbling speech , and anything else that that may be a sign that you are n't being truthful .
The end result may not be a pleasant encounter but some diligence is needed to protect our border crossings.That being said the Canadian guards tend to be more pleasant although sometimes to the point of wonder in their lack of diligence to even look at any credentials when you get waved through on a lightly used crossing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FWIW a lot of the "bad manners" exhibited by the US border guards are part of their training.
They are basically conducting an interrogation within a brief timeline on a constant stream of largely unremarkable people.
Unlike a conventional police officer they are dealing with a broad spectrum of travelers.
Whereas a police officer, when questioning a problematic person, is only engaged because of what this person has done or alleged to have done the border guards are always starting with a clean slate and don't know what to expect.
Their questioning is designed to put pressure on the traveler and "break" them into exposing themselves as a person of interest.
Sure, some of the guards seems to get off on the power trip but the general grumpiness is part of the act so to speak.If you cross frequently enough and analyze their pattern of questioning you can build a picture of what they've been trained to do.
A lot of their questions are meant to catch you in a lie.
Oftentimes you'll have the same question asked in the dialogue.
That doesn't happen because the guard is forgetful, he or she is verifying that your first response was truthful.
Typically it's "where are you from?
" or "where were you born?".
For US returnees, depending on what you were doing in Canada you will get them to jump to a common point in their interrogation "script" and you will hear certain questions pop up repeatedly.
The guards are also monitoring your body language, checking for hesitant or stumbling speech, and anything else that that may be a sign that you aren't being truthful.
The end result may not be a pleasant encounter but some diligence is needed to protect our border crossings.That being said the Canadian guards tend to be more pleasant although sometimes to the point of wonder in their lack of diligence to even look at any credentials when you get waved through on a lightly used crossing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410040</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260544920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Don't forget that Canada will prohibit a US citizen from entering if they have a DUI on their record as well. Hosers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't forget that Canada will prohibit a US citizen from entering if they have a DUI on their record as well .
Hosers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't forget that Canada will prohibit a US citizen from entering if they have a DUI on their record as well.
Hosers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409872</id>
	<title>Re:Let's not leap to conclusions.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260543780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"We're also hearing second-hand from Watts and the other people in the car. We're not yet hearing the guards' account. Maybe Doctorow et. al. are completely right, but let's not assume so right off the bat, eh?"<br>
<br>
Watts himself has now commented directly: <a href="http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=932" title="rifters.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=932</a> [rifters.com] <br>
<br>
Nobody will hear the guards' account until a trial, if there is one. May not hear it even then.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" We 're also hearing second-hand from Watts and the other people in the car .
We 're not yet hearing the guards ' account .
Maybe Doctorow et .
al. are completely right , but let 's not assume so right off the bat , eh ?
" Watts himself has now commented directly : http : //www.rifters.com/crawl/ ? p = 932 [ rifters.com ] Nobody will hear the guards ' account until a trial , if there is one .
May not hear it even then .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"We're also hearing second-hand from Watts and the other people in the car.
We're not yet hearing the guards' account.
Maybe Doctorow et.
al. are completely right, but let's not assume so right off the bat, eh?
"

Watts himself has now commented directly: http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=932 [rifters.com] 

Nobody will hear the guards' account until a trial, if there is one.
May not hear it even then.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410008</id>
	<title>Re:This guy writes fiction for a living</title>
	<author>Ihmhi</author>
	<datestamp>1260544740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Quit voting for the guys who want to raise your taxes</p></div><p>I don't think you can vote for "Nobody".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Quit voting for the guys who want to raise your taxesI do n't think you can vote for " Nobody " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Quit voting for the guys who want to raise your taxesI don't think you can vote for "Nobody".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409380</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411622</id>
	<title>Re:Fail: Dealing with Police 101</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260559800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The expectations you listed bear a STRIKING resemblance to what tourists were told to expect and do when traveling from the US to places like the PRC, USSR, North Korea, and maybe Iran on those rare occasions that a US citizen might conceivably have had a need to back during the latter days of the Cold War. Street smarts is one thing, but having to take precautions like THIS, having to spend your time imprisoned in your own skin by FEAR, is the very kind of thing that identifies police states.<br>-</p><p>Anyone care to offer asylum to future US citizens who manage to escape the "land of the free"? I think perhaps someone should give it a thought. Preferably, in a nation that respects human rights, of course.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The expectations you listed bear a STRIKING resemblance to what tourists were told to expect and do when traveling from the US to places like the PRC , USSR , North Korea , and maybe Iran on those rare occasions that a US citizen might conceivably have had a need to back during the latter days of the Cold War .
Street smarts is one thing , but having to take precautions like THIS , having to spend your time imprisoned in your own skin by FEAR , is the very kind of thing that identifies police states.-Anyone care to offer asylum to future US citizens who manage to escape the " land of the free " ?
I think perhaps someone should give it a thought .
Preferably , in a nation that respects human rights , of course .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The expectations you listed bear a STRIKING resemblance to what tourists were told to expect and do when traveling from the US to places like the PRC, USSR, North Korea, and maybe Iran on those rare occasions that a US citizen might conceivably have had a need to back during the latter days of the Cold War.
Street smarts is one thing, but having to take precautions like THIS, having to spend your time imprisoned in your own skin by FEAR, is the very kind of thing that identifies police states.-Anyone care to offer asylum to future US citizens who manage to escape the "land of the free"?
I think perhaps someone should give it a thought.
Preferably, in a nation that respects human rights, of course.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410532</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409780</id>
	<title>Re:Always the same story...</title>
	<author>betterunixthanunix</author>
	<datestamp>1260543180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>"always assume that government officials are assholes. Do what they ask, obey their orders, don't be a smartass - as a result, you will generally speaking be OK."<br> <br>

Yes, because that always helps...<br> <br>

"Is that a laptop in your bag?"  "Yes."  "Turn it on please...what is this about an encryption passphrase?  Please write that down here."  "I really am not comfortable with giving that out."  "Well, that is suspicious, and I am giving your laptop to DHS.  You can have it back whenever we decide to send it to you."</htmltext>
<tokenext>" always assume that government officials are assholes .
Do what they ask , obey their orders , do n't be a smartass - as a result , you will generally speaking be OK. " Yes , because that always helps.. . " Is that a laptop in your bag ?
" " Yes .
" " Turn it on please...what is this about an encryption passphrase ?
Please write that down here .
" " I really am not comfortable with giving that out .
" " Well , that is suspicious , and I am giving your laptop to DHS .
You can have it back whenever we decide to send it to you .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"always assume that government officials are assholes.
Do what they ask, obey their orders, don't be a smartass - as a result, you will generally speaking be OK." 

Yes, because that always helps... 

"Is that a laptop in your bag?
"  "Yes.
"  "Turn it on please...what is this about an encryption passphrase?
Please write that down here.
"  "I really am not comfortable with giving that out.
"  "Well, that is suspicious, and I am giving your laptop to DHS.
You can have it back whenever we decide to send it to you.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409372</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409352</id>
	<title>Something stinks here...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260540360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...but I'm not sure what.</p><p>The initial interaction with the officers was most likely his own damn fault. Getting out of the car uninvited is an aggressive act. How were the officers to know whether or not he was a threat. Moreover, the guy is STILL upset and self-righteous over it, so I'd bet that at the time, he wasn't exactly calm and level-headed, either.</p><p>But his account of the following hours? There's more to the story that we aren't being told. Frankly, I'm calling bullshit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...but I 'm not sure what.The initial interaction with the officers was most likely his own damn fault .
Getting out of the car uninvited is an aggressive act .
How were the officers to know whether or not he was a threat .
Moreover , the guy is STILL upset and self-righteous over it , so I 'd bet that at the time , he was n't exactly calm and level-headed , either.But his account of the following hours ?
There 's more to the story that we are n't being told .
Frankly , I 'm calling bullshit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...but I'm not sure what.The initial interaction with the officers was most likely his own damn fault.
Getting out of the car uninvited is an aggressive act.
How were the officers to know whether or not he was a threat.
Moreover, the guy is STILL upset and self-righteous over it, so I'd bet that at the time, he wasn't exactly calm and level-headed, either.But his account of the following hours?
There's more to the story that we aren't being told.
Frankly, I'm calling bullshit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409908</id>
	<title>Re:Always the same story...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260544020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you talk back, disobey orders and give them a hard time</p><p>you suggest to kiss their ring ?</p><p>FOff</p><p>jr</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you talk back , disobey orders and give them a hard timeyou suggest to kiss their ring ? FOffjr</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you talk back, disobey orders and give them a hard timeyou suggest to kiss their ring ?FOffjr</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409372</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409376</id>
	<title>Why Is This Story On Slashdot At All??!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260540480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow, a story about a third-rate,barely heard of sci-fi author is news for nerds??</p><p>Doing a simple search of slashdot yields nothing about Peter Watts, why is anything that happens to him relevant to slashdot readers?</p><p>I suspect this is just red meat for the typical angry "Fuck the police", authority-hating responses.  Its certainly valid in some cases, but I can't think of any reason why the editors are encouraging this with such a flimsy story.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow , a story about a third-rate,barely heard of sci-fi author is news for nerds ?
? Doing a simple search of slashdot yields nothing about Peter Watts , why is anything that happens to him relevant to slashdot readers ? I suspect this is just red meat for the typical angry " Fuck the police " , authority-hating responses .
Its certainly valid in some cases , but I ca n't think of any reason why the editors are encouraging this with such a flimsy story .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow, a story about a third-rate,barely heard of sci-fi author is news for nerds?
?Doing a simple search of slashdot yields nothing about Peter Watts, why is anything that happens to him relevant to slashdot readers?I suspect this is just red meat for the typical angry "Fuck the police", authority-hating responses.
Its certainly valid in some cases, but I can't think of any reason why the editors are encouraging this with such a flimsy story.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409306</id>
	<title>Let's not leap to conclusions.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260540000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>It sounds like the facts aren't all in yet, so let's not leap to conclusions. We're hearing the account of Cory Doctorow -- who in his novel "Little Brother" had an obvious axe to grind against Homeland Security and law enforcement, to the point of suggesting "9/11 was an inside job". (Says one of the leaflets dropped by the novel's heroic protesters.) We're also hearing second-hand from Watts and the other people in the car. We're not yet hearing the guards' account. Maybe Doctorow et. al. are completely right, but let's not assume so right off the bat, eh?<br> <br>
The Doctorow account quotes Watts saying that he got out of his car when questioned (mistake #1), then refused the order to get back in (mistake #2). No, of course that doesn't justify a beating. It just suggests we don't have the whole story.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It sounds like the facts are n't all in yet , so let 's not leap to conclusions .
We 're hearing the account of Cory Doctorow -- who in his novel " Little Brother " had an obvious axe to grind against Homeland Security and law enforcement , to the point of suggesting " 9/11 was an inside job " .
( Says one of the leaflets dropped by the novel 's heroic protesters .
) We 're also hearing second-hand from Watts and the other people in the car .
We 're not yet hearing the guards ' account .
Maybe Doctorow et .
al. are completely right , but let 's not assume so right off the bat , eh ?
The Doctorow account quotes Watts saying that he got out of his car when questioned ( mistake # 1 ) , then refused the order to get back in ( mistake # 2 ) .
No , of course that does n't justify a beating .
It just suggests we do n't have the whole story .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It sounds like the facts aren't all in yet, so let's not leap to conclusions.
We're hearing the account of Cory Doctorow -- who in his novel "Little Brother" had an obvious axe to grind against Homeland Security and law enforcement, to the point of suggesting "9/11 was an inside job".
(Says one of the leaflets dropped by the novel's heroic protesters.
) We're also hearing second-hand from Watts and the other people in the car.
We're not yet hearing the guards' account.
Maybe Doctorow et.
al. are completely right, but let's not assume so right off the bat, eh?
The Doctorow account quotes Watts saying that he got out of his car when questioned (mistake #1), then refused the order to get back in (mistake #2).
No, of course that doesn't justify a beating.
It just suggests we don't have the whole story.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409236</id>
	<title>Put him away...</title>
	<author>gardel999</author>
	<datestamp>1260539580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If he assaulted the federal officer, he deserves what he gets. Being a "sci-fi author" doesn't give him the right to break the law.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If he assaulted the federal officer , he deserves what he gets .
Being a " sci-fi author " does n't give him the right to break the law .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If he assaulted the federal officer, he deserves what he gets.
Being a "sci-fi author" doesn't give him the right to break the law.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30412452</id>
	<title>Normal behavior for the U.S.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260617460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is one of the reasons why I will never go to the U.S...</p><p>Along with facts like:<br>- The U.S. has got the largest prison population in the world (even more as China).<br>- If you're a foreigner you've got no rights whatsoever.<br>- The possibility to be detained indeffinately without being charged for no reason at all.<br>- Law enforcement officers in urgent need of psychiatric treatment.<br>- Law enforcement officers which appear to enjoy immunity from the law.<br>- The default treatment of distrust for foreigners.<br>- Death penalty (government sanctioned murder), there is no excuse for it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is one of the reasons why I will never go to the U.S...Along with facts like : - The U.S. has got the largest prison population in the world ( even more as China ) .- If you 're a foreigner you 've got no rights whatsoever.- The possibility to be detained indeffinately without being charged for no reason at all.- Law enforcement officers in urgent need of psychiatric treatment.- Law enforcement officers which appear to enjoy immunity from the law.- The default treatment of distrust for foreigners.- Death penalty ( government sanctioned murder ) , there is no excuse for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is one of the reasons why I will never go to the U.S...Along with facts like:- The U.S. has got the largest prison population in the world (even more as China).- If you're a foreigner you've got no rights whatsoever.- The possibility to be detained indeffinately without being charged for no reason at all.- Law enforcement officers in urgent need of psychiatric treatment.- Law enforcement officers which appear to enjoy immunity from the law.- The default treatment of distrust for foreigners.- Death penalty (government sanctioned murder), there is no excuse for it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30416346</id>
	<title>Re:You and Watts are ignorant asshats.</title>
	<author>Anonymous Cowpat</author>
	<datestamp>1260650160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>when you try to de-escalate the situation by telling him to get back in the car</p></div></blockquote><p>That's not de-escalating the situation. De-escalate the situation requires the guard to be more emollient. The following proceedure would have been better:</p><ol><li>Sympathise with his situation</li><li>Answer his question</li><li>Ask him, politely, to get back into the car.</li></ol><p>Don't just ignore the asking of the question and shout at him to get back in the car. That's rude, immediately gets people's backs up, and is likely to make things worse - particularly if that person is already agitated (liie most international travellers).</p><p>If you can't do emollience under pressure, find a different line of work.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>when you try to de-escalate the situation by telling him to get back in the carThat 's not de-escalating the situation .
De-escalate the situation requires the guard to be more emollient .
The following proceedure would have been better : Sympathise with his situationAnswer his questionAsk him , politely , to get back into the car.Do n't just ignore the asking of the question and shout at him to get back in the car .
That 's rude , immediately gets people 's backs up , and is likely to make things worse - particularly if that person is already agitated ( liie most international travellers ) .If you ca n't do emollience under pressure , find a different line of work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>when you try to de-escalate the situation by telling him to get back in the carThat's not de-escalating the situation.
De-escalate the situation requires the guard to be more emollient.
The following proceedure would have been better:Sympathise with his situationAnswer his questionAsk him, politely, to get back into the car.Don't just ignore the asking of the question and shout at him to get back in the car.
That's rude, immediately gets people's backs up, and is likely to make things worse - particularly if that person is already agitated (liie most international travellers).If you can't do emollience under pressure, find a different line of work.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410054</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409918</id>
	<title>Re:I'm entirely inclined to believe Watts</title>
	<author>lahvak</author>
	<datestamp>1260544080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's exactly my impression.  Crossing from US to Canada was fine, crossing back very strongly reminded me of crossing from Poland to East Germany in mid 80's.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's exactly my impression .
Crossing from US to Canada was fine , crossing back very strongly reminded me of crossing from Poland to East Germany in mid 80 's .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's exactly my impression.
Crossing from US to Canada was fine, crossing back very strongly reminded me of crossing from Poland to East Germany in mid 80's.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30412228</id>
	<title>Re:Reason for Charge</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260614160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The first thing I would be doing is listening to the officer and acting in accordance to what was deemed of me at the time at a border security check. Ya know, unless I was breaking the law. Dumb ass. Don't f*ck with the cops. We live in police state. Period. Along the way, some a**holes wanted to push things to the limit and hurt innocent people. Now that we check to make sure innocent people aren't being put in harms way and a**holes are detained, innocent peolpe get caught up in the detention of a**holes. If you're not and a**hole, then you have nothing to worry about. Let them do their check. keep you're mouth shut and move along. Just because you think you're innocent, doesn't mean "they" know you are. Or let's just let everybody go do whatever and when your sister get's raped or murder or blown up or poisoned or what ever some a**hole will think of next to hurt innocent people, that'll be just tough sh*t and I'm not bowing down to a narco-police state. Well, I'd rather deal with 30 minutes of hassel than deal with the next bullsh*t terrorist attack, crazy a**hole gunman, sick dope infested, scumbag, terrorist they let across the border because some nancy friggen writer of childrens crap thought he is better than everyone else and thinks the laws that we all heed don't apply to him. You wanna get lippy with the cops? Well here's a night stick to the face. You wanna get lippy with me? Well here's my fist in your mouth. Don't start sh*t if you can't finish it. Don't start a fight if you're gonna go cry to your mommy, because you know what? NO ONE CARES! Maybe people on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. care, but the world doesn't. Get over yourself and start abiding by the rules and the laws around you. And if you wanna break the law? Don't be stupid about it. Be careful. Don't get caught. Smoke dope at home. Dumb ass. I hope they send him to prision.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The first thing I would be doing is listening to the officer and acting in accordance to what was deemed of me at the time at a border security check .
Ya know , unless I was breaking the law .
Dumb ass .
Do n't f * ck with the cops .
We live in police state .
Period. Along the way , some a * * holes wanted to push things to the limit and hurt innocent people .
Now that we check to make sure innocent people are n't being put in harms way and a * * holes are detained , innocent peolpe get caught up in the detention of a * * holes .
If you 're not and a * * hole , then you have nothing to worry about .
Let them do their check .
keep you 're mouth shut and move along .
Just because you think you 're innocent , does n't mean " they " know you are .
Or let 's just let everybody go do whatever and when your sister get 's raped or murder or blown up or poisoned or what ever some a * * hole will think of next to hurt innocent people , that 'll be just tough sh * t and I 'm not bowing down to a narco-police state .
Well , I 'd rather deal with 30 minutes of hassel than deal with the next bullsh * t terrorist attack , crazy a * * hole gunman , sick dope infested , scumbag , terrorist they let across the border because some nancy friggen writer of childrens crap thought he is better than everyone else and thinks the laws that we all heed do n't apply to him .
You wan na get lippy with the cops ?
Well here 's a night stick to the face .
You wan na get lippy with me ?
Well here 's my fist in your mouth .
Do n't start sh * t if you ca n't finish it .
Do n't start a fight if you 're gon na go cry to your mommy , because you know what ?
NO ONE CARES !
Maybe people on / .
care , but the world does n't .
Get over yourself and start abiding by the rules and the laws around you .
And if you wan na break the law ?
Do n't be stupid about it .
Be careful .
Do n't get caught .
Smoke dope at home .
Dumb ass .
I hope they send him to prision .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The first thing I would be doing is listening to the officer and acting in accordance to what was deemed of me at the time at a border security check.
Ya know, unless I was breaking the law.
Dumb ass.
Don't f*ck with the cops.
We live in police state.
Period. Along the way, some a**holes wanted to push things to the limit and hurt innocent people.
Now that we check to make sure innocent people aren't being put in harms way and a**holes are detained, innocent peolpe get caught up in the detention of a**holes.
If you're not and a**hole, then you have nothing to worry about.
Let them do their check.
keep you're mouth shut and move along.
Just because you think you're innocent, doesn't mean "they" know you are.
Or let's just let everybody go do whatever and when your sister get's raped or murder or blown up or poisoned or what ever some a**hole will think of next to hurt innocent people, that'll be just tough sh*t and I'm not bowing down to a narco-police state.
Well, I'd rather deal with 30 minutes of hassel than deal with the next bullsh*t terrorist attack, crazy a**hole gunman, sick dope infested, scumbag, terrorist they let across the border because some nancy friggen writer of childrens crap thought he is better than everyone else and thinks the laws that we all heed don't apply to him.
You wanna get lippy with the cops?
Well here's a night stick to the face.
You wanna get lippy with me?
Well here's my fist in your mouth.
Don't start sh*t if you can't finish it.
Don't start a fight if you're gonna go cry to your mommy, because you know what?
NO ONE CARES!
Maybe people on /.
care, but the world doesn't.
Get over yourself and start abiding by the rules and the laws around you.
And if you wanna break the law?
Don't be stupid about it.
Be careful.
Don't get caught.
Smoke dope at home.
Dumb ass.
I hope they send him to prision.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410780</id>
	<title>Re:Charges...</title>
	<author>spud603</author>
	<datestamp>1260551160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm also surprised there's no "disorderly conduct" in there. That's usually a pretty good catch-all for "we don't really like you or what you're doing"</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm also surprised there 's no " disorderly conduct " in there .
That 's usually a pretty good catch-all for " we do n't really like you or what you 're doing "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm also surprised there's no "disorderly conduct" in there.
That's usually a pretty good catch-all for "we don't really like you or what you're doing"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409230</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410266</id>
	<title>Why US agents at all?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260547080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At all of the times I've crossed in a car from US to CA, I've never talked with a US agent, merely Canadian ones.  Granted, I use crossings in NY, VT, but I thought you only talk to the country you're entering, not the one you're leaving.  Is there something unusual at the particular border crossing in the story?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At all of the times I 've crossed in a car from US to CA , I 've never talked with a US agent , merely Canadian ones .
Granted , I use crossings in NY , VT , but I thought you only talk to the country you 're entering , not the one you 're leaving .
Is there something unusual at the particular border crossing in the story ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At all of the times I've crossed in a car from US to CA, I've never talked with a US agent, merely Canadian ones.
Granted, I use crossings in NY, VT, but I thought you only talk to the country you're entering, not the one you're leaving.
Is there something unusual at the particular border crossing in the story?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410396</id>
	<title>Re:Charges...</title>
	<author>Starfleet Command</author>
	<datestamp>1260548040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wondering how many times you have had run ins with the police.  It's funny, because I have been stopped a couple of times...sometimes I got a ticket, sometimes not, but the officers were always<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.professional and I never felt threatened or the need to suck up.  I was respectful...no more and they were the same.  They have a job to do and if your behavior, or habits run afoul of that job, you can only blame yourself.  If I had acted like an as, gotten out of the car, told the officer to frak off or whatever, I would have been arrested and rightfully so.  If you act like an ass, you get treated like that.  Doesn't matter if you are dealing with cops or house painters.  Respect given, respect gotten.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wondering how many times you have had run ins with the police .
It 's funny , because I have been stopped a couple of times...sometimes I got a ticket , sometimes not , but the officers were always .professional and I never felt threatened or the need to suck up .
I was respectful...no more and they were the same .
They have a job to do and if your behavior , or habits run afoul of that job , you can only blame yourself .
If I had acted like an as , gotten out of the car , told the officer to frak off or whatever , I would have been arrested and rightfully so .
If you act like an ass , you get treated like that .
Does n't matter if you are dealing with cops or house painters .
Respect given , respect gotten .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wondering how many times you have had run ins with the police.
It's funny, because I have been stopped a couple of times...sometimes I got a ticket, sometimes not, but the officers were always .professional and I never felt threatened or the need to suck up.
I was respectful...no more and they were the same.
They have a job to do and if your behavior, or habits run afoul of that job, you can only blame yourself.
If I had acted like an as, gotten out of the car, told the officer to frak off or whatever, I would have been arrested and rightfully so.
If you act like an ass, you get treated like that.
Doesn't matter if you are dealing with cops or house painters.
Respect given, respect gotten.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409574</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30413448</id>
	<title>Re:I'm entirely inclined to believe Watts</title>
	<author>theolein</author>
	<datestamp>1260628980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I lived in West Berlin in the 80s and I've crossed the border from Canada to the US numerous times. The East German border guards were most certainly better educated, more polite and much more civil than the trash that the US employs to defend itself against that terrorist state to its north.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I lived in West Berlin in the 80s and I 've crossed the border from Canada to the US numerous times .
The East German border guards were most certainly better educated , more polite and much more civil than the trash that the US employs to defend itself against that terrorist state to its north .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I lived in West Berlin in the 80s and I've crossed the border from Canada to the US numerous times.
The East German border guards were most certainly better educated, more polite and much more civil than the trash that the US employs to defend itself against that terrorist state to its north.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410084</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411098</id>
	<title>Re:Let's not leap to conclusions.</title>
	<author>DerekLyons</author>
	<datestamp>1260553980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Him and millions of other people who know absolutely nothing about security, yet somehow have come to the conclusions they are PhD level experts on all facets of security and have a massive bias against the Bush Administration, have decided, completely and utterly without experience or evidence, that a posted sign saying "Don't hijack the plane" would be about as effective and far less annoying than homeland security.</p></div></blockquote><p>There, fixed that for you.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Him and millions of other people who know absolutely nothing about security , yet somehow have come to the conclusions they are PhD level experts on all facets of security and have a massive bias against the Bush Administration , have decided , completely and utterly without experience or evidence , that a posted sign saying " Do n't hijack the plane " would be about as effective and far less annoying than homeland security.There , fixed that for you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Him and millions of other people who know absolutely nothing about security, yet somehow have come to the conclusions they are PhD level experts on all facets of security and have a massive bias against the Bush Administration, have decided, completely and utterly without experience or evidence, that a posted sign saying "Don't hijack the plane" would be about as effective and far less annoying than homeland security.There, fixed that for you.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409392</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410550</id>
	<title>Re:This guy writes fiction for a living</title>
	<author>horza</author>
	<datestamp>1260549360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't think paying them less will improve their quality of service. Judging from other countries, it will only make them more corrupt.</p><p>Phillip.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think paying them less will improve their quality of service .
Judging from other countries , it will only make them more corrupt.Phillip .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think paying them less will improve their quality of service.
Judging from other countries, it will only make them more corrupt.Phillip.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409380</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30414606</id>
	<title>Re:From the police report</title>
	<author>assertation</author>
	<datestamp>1260638280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Police do lie.  OTOH many people cross the border without incident, so there is there question of why did they pick on him?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Police do lie .
OTOH many people cross the border without incident , so there is there question of why did they pick on him ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Police do lie.
OTOH many people cross the border without incident, so there is there question of why did they pick on him?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409808</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409406</id>
	<title>Reason for Charge</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260540660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Since quite a few are asking, I figured I'd provide the pertinent sections of TFAs.
<br> <br>
According to an update in the Boing Boing article, Watts got out of the car to ask what was happening -- presumably because his car and/or person was being searched.  When the officers refused to answer and told him to get back in the car, he asked the question again.  At which point he was attacked, his property was seized, and he was asked to waive his Miranda rights.
<br> <br>
Sounds like the unfortunate combination of a pissed off officer and a less-that-sympathetic citizen compounded by detectives/officers who get pissed when prisoners refuse to talk.  I can empathize with both parties (first and second, not third -- right to remain silent means right to remain silent,) but -- assuming the accuracy of Watts' story -- the assault charge is probably trumped up.  Convincing a judge of that is a whole different story.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Since quite a few are asking , I figured I 'd provide the pertinent sections of TFAs .
According to an update in the Boing Boing article , Watts got out of the car to ask what was happening -- presumably because his car and/or person was being searched .
When the officers refused to answer and told him to get back in the car , he asked the question again .
At which point he was attacked , his property was seized , and he was asked to waive his Miranda rights .
Sounds like the unfortunate combination of a pissed off officer and a less-that-sympathetic citizen compounded by detectives/officers who get pissed when prisoners refuse to talk .
I can empathize with both parties ( first and second , not third -- right to remain silent means right to remain silent , ) but -- assuming the accuracy of Watts ' story -- the assault charge is probably trumped up .
Convincing a judge of that is a whole different story .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since quite a few are asking, I figured I'd provide the pertinent sections of TFAs.
According to an update in the Boing Boing article, Watts got out of the car to ask what was happening -- presumably because his car and/or person was being searched.
When the officers refused to answer and told him to get back in the car, he asked the question again.
At which point he was attacked, his property was seized, and he was asked to waive his Miranda rights.
Sounds like the unfortunate combination of a pissed off officer and a less-that-sympathetic citizen compounded by detectives/officers who get pissed when prisoners refuse to talk.
I can empathize with both parties (first and second, not third -- right to remain silent means right to remain silent,) but -- assuming the accuracy of Watts' story -- the assault charge is probably trumped up.
Convincing a judge of that is a whole different story.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411598</id>
	<title>Re:I'm entirely inclined to believe Watts</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260559560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've done a *lot* of US-Canada border crossing. (I used to live and work on opposite sides of the border)</p><p>Takeaways:</p><p>
&nbsp; * Canadian border officers are a *lot* nicer to deal with. Only *once* did I get a real asshole. That said, *do not* mess with them. I was talking to a border officer about my status (inside of the office, not at the booth) and there was a couple that was getting fidgety about waiting to be seen. The lady that I was talking to was really nice dealing with me, but when that guy just wouldn't sit down and wait his turn she really laid down the law. It was like a night-and-day difference in demeanor. [ She didn't beat him. Her attitude just turned on a dime from "nice and cooperative" to "forceful and don't mess with me" ]</p><p>
&nbsp; * US Border patrol officers are hit-and-miss. Some of them are really nice. I've been waved through on a couple of occasions without showing ID even (though one of them was back in '05 and I was asked like 2 questions).</p><p>
&nbsp; * Some US Border Patrol Officers are ex-military. At the Niagara Falls, there were more than a few cars parked in the border patrol lot that were plastered with stickers that were very pro-military. One of them must also be an ex-Vietnam vet because there were at least 2 bump stickers railing on Jane Fonda and her protesting. It also shows in their attitude to you at the crossing. They talk down to you like they are a</p><p>
&nbsp; * I once had a US Border Patrol Officer trying to crack a joke with me about a guy that had committed suicide at the place where I worked (when he found out I worked there; the suicide was all over the local media). I just didn't say anything since my employer didn't want us saying anything about it. I thought it was totally in poor taste... it wasn't even funny in a 4chan<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/b/ way. It was just a WTF moment.</p><p>
&nbsp; * Crossing into the US from Canada is the only crossing where I saw them stop everyone and have dogs circle the vehicles *prior* to getting to the booth where you answer questions/show 'papers' and such.</p><p>
&nbsp; * I was once stopped by US Border Patrol on the US side of the border while crossing *into* Canada. They were walking in between the cars because the crossing was backed up almost to the toll booth. They almost pulled me out of the car because they confused, "I work at the casino" with "I won at the casino." They started asking me all these questions about money and got pissed off when I answered with, "I only have like $5 on me."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've done a * lot * of US-Canada border crossing .
( I used to live and work on opposite sides of the border ) Takeaways :   * Canadian border officers are a * lot * nicer to deal with .
Only * once * did I get a real asshole .
That said , * do not * mess with them .
I was talking to a border officer about my status ( inside of the office , not at the booth ) and there was a couple that was getting fidgety about waiting to be seen .
The lady that I was talking to was really nice dealing with me , but when that guy just would n't sit down and wait his turn she really laid down the law .
It was like a night-and-day difference in demeanor .
[ She did n't beat him .
Her attitude just turned on a dime from " nice and cooperative " to " forceful and do n't mess with me " ]   * US Border patrol officers are hit-and-miss .
Some of them are really nice .
I 've been waved through on a couple of occasions without showing ID even ( though one of them was back in '05 and I was asked like 2 questions ) .
  * Some US Border Patrol Officers are ex-military .
At the Niagara Falls , there were more than a few cars parked in the border patrol lot that were plastered with stickers that were very pro-military .
One of them must also be an ex-Vietnam vet because there were at least 2 bump stickers railing on Jane Fonda and her protesting .
It also shows in their attitude to you at the crossing .
They talk down to you like they are a   * I once had a US Border Patrol Officer trying to crack a joke with me about a guy that had committed suicide at the place where I worked ( when he found out I worked there ; the suicide was all over the local media ) .
I just did n't say anything since my employer did n't want us saying anything about it .
I thought it was totally in poor taste... it was n't even funny in a 4chan /b/ way .
It was just a WTF moment .
  * Crossing into the US from Canada is the only crossing where I saw them stop everyone and have dogs circle the vehicles * prior * to getting to the booth where you answer questions/show 'papers ' and such .
  * I was once stopped by US Border Patrol on the US side of the border while crossing * into * Canada .
They were walking in between the cars because the crossing was backed up almost to the toll booth .
They almost pulled me out of the car because they confused , " I work at the casino " with " I won at the casino .
" They started asking me all these questions about money and got pissed off when I answered with , " I only have like $ 5 on me .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've done a *lot* of US-Canada border crossing.
(I used to live and work on opposite sides of the border)Takeaways:
  * Canadian border officers are a *lot* nicer to deal with.
Only *once* did I get a real asshole.
That said, *do not* mess with them.
I was talking to a border officer about my status (inside of the office, not at the booth) and there was a couple that was getting fidgety about waiting to be seen.
The lady that I was talking to was really nice dealing with me, but when that guy just wouldn't sit down and wait his turn she really laid down the law.
It was like a night-and-day difference in demeanor.
[ She didn't beat him.
Her attitude just turned on a dime from "nice and cooperative" to "forceful and don't mess with me" ]
  * US Border patrol officers are hit-and-miss.
Some of them are really nice.
I've been waved through on a couple of occasions without showing ID even (though one of them was back in '05 and I was asked like 2 questions).
  * Some US Border Patrol Officers are ex-military.
At the Niagara Falls, there were more than a few cars parked in the border patrol lot that were plastered with stickers that were very pro-military.
One of them must also be an ex-Vietnam vet because there were at least 2 bump stickers railing on Jane Fonda and her protesting.
It also shows in their attitude to you at the crossing.
They talk down to you like they are a
  * I once had a US Border Patrol Officer trying to crack a joke with me about a guy that had committed suicide at the place where I worked (when he found out I worked there; the suicide was all over the local media).
I just didn't say anything since my employer didn't want us saying anything about it.
I thought it was totally in poor taste... it wasn't even funny in a 4chan /b/ way.
It was just a WTF moment.
  * Crossing into the US from Canada is the only crossing where I saw them stop everyone and have dogs circle the vehicles *prior* to getting to the booth where you answer questions/show 'papers' and such.
  * I was once stopped by US Border Patrol on the US side of the border while crossing *into* Canada.
They were walking in between the cars because the crossing was backed up almost to the toll booth.
They almost pulled me out of the car because they confused, "I work at the casino" with "I won at the casino.
" They started asking me all these questions about money and got pissed off when I answered with, "I only have like $5 on me.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30424264</id>
	<title>Re:Another outrage story?</title>
	<author>DaveV1.0</author>
	<datestamp>1260735720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You lost most of slashdot at "Please try to keep an open mind."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You lost most of slashdot at " Please try to keep an open mind .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You lost most of slashdot at "Please try to keep an open mind.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410904</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411320</id>
	<title>Re:learn the law, son</title>
	<author>honkycat</author>
	<datestamp>1260556320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Umm, like the OP implied, refusing to answer questions (aside from perhaps about identity) itself does not constitute constitute resisting arrest.  IIRC (and depending on jurisdiction perhaps), it can't even form part of a reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Umm , like the OP implied , refusing to answer questions ( aside from perhaps about identity ) itself does not constitute constitute resisting arrest .
IIRC ( and depending on jurisdiction perhaps ) , it ca n't even form part of a reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Umm, like the OP implied, refusing to answer questions (aside from perhaps about identity) itself does not constitute constitute resisting arrest.
IIRC (and depending on jurisdiction perhaps), it can't even form part of a reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409994</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409382</id>
	<title>When I travel to the US I travel in fear</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260540540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not only am I raped over $40 in fees just to cross your petty border. You Americans must protect your tourism industry and stop this harassment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not only am I raped over $ 40 in fees just to cross your petty border .
You Americans must protect your tourism industry and stop this harassment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not only am I raped over $40 in fees just to cross your petty border.
You Americans must protect your tourism industry and stop this harassment.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30414926</id>
	<title>Embarrasing</title>
	<author>flyneye</author>
	<datestamp>1260640380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I hope that the EFF can successfully bring the truth to light in court.<br>Everywhere in the world are cops who figure the badge is a ticket to power and adventure.<br>In the U.S.s haste to fill homeland security positions, I'm sure they haven't been as discriminating as they should be in hiring.<br>Any monkey with even some national guard experience is first choice hire. I know a few and believe me I don't sleep any better knowing they are on duty at the airport.<br>Bad cops are an embarrassment and should be corrected with some prison time in general population if only for the Darwinian aspects of passing their genes on to further generations.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I hope that the EFF can successfully bring the truth to light in court.Everywhere in the world are cops who figure the badge is a ticket to power and adventure.In the U.S.s haste to fill homeland security positions , I 'm sure they have n't been as discriminating as they should be in hiring.Any monkey with even some national guard experience is first choice hire .
I know a few and believe me I do n't sleep any better knowing they are on duty at the airport.Bad cops are an embarrassment and should be corrected with some prison time in general population if only for the Darwinian aspects of passing their genes on to further generations .
         </tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hope that the EFF can successfully bring the truth to light in court.Everywhere in the world are cops who figure the badge is a ticket to power and adventure.In the U.S.s haste to fill homeland security positions, I'm sure they haven't been as discriminating as they should be in hiring.Any monkey with even some national guard experience is first choice hire.
I know a few and believe me I don't sleep any better knowing they are on duty at the airport.Bad cops are an embarrassment and should be corrected with some prison time in general population if only for the Darwinian aspects of passing their genes on to further generations.
         </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410310</id>
	<title>Just a Warning...</title>
	<author>hackus</author>
	<datestamp>1260547500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As history demonstrates, the most dangerous times to live in is when a Empire, particularly a bankrupt one is losing power.</p><p>To shore up the losses, at first legions of goon squads will become quite common place as those will be the best jobs.<br>(I love the propaganda on the "goon mobiles" or public police squad cars.  I watched one video where one officer beat a unarmed mentally deficient man while the other tasered him with the Camera in one "Goon Mobile" capturing the side of the other "Goon Mobile" that had "Protect Honor Public Safety" written on it.)</p><p>I think Bugs Bunny said it best: "What a Maroon!"</p><p>Don't fight the Goon...at least not yet.  Wait till the Empire is sufficiently weakened to the point where even the goons don't hold any loyalty or they are forced to shoot or incarcerate their own mothers or children.</p><p>Then you know its time to organize as time will be on your side.</p><p>But until then, your going to get run over, beaten, electrocuted or even Microwaved to a slow simmer so don't resist the goon squad.</p><p>-Hack</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As history demonstrates , the most dangerous times to live in is when a Empire , particularly a bankrupt one is losing power.To shore up the losses , at first legions of goon squads will become quite common place as those will be the best jobs .
( I love the propaganda on the " goon mobiles " or public police squad cars .
I watched one video where one officer beat a unarmed mentally deficient man while the other tasered him with the Camera in one " Goon Mobile " capturing the side of the other " Goon Mobile " that had " Protect Honor Public Safety " written on it .
) I think Bugs Bunny said it best : " What a Maroon !
" Do n't fight the Goon...at least not yet .
Wait till the Empire is sufficiently weakened to the point where even the goons do n't hold any loyalty or they are forced to shoot or incarcerate their own mothers or children.Then you know its time to organize as time will be on your side.But until then , your going to get run over , beaten , electrocuted or even Microwaved to a slow simmer so do n't resist the goon squad.-Hack</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As history demonstrates, the most dangerous times to live in is when a Empire, particularly a bankrupt one is losing power.To shore up the losses, at first legions of goon squads will become quite common place as those will be the best jobs.
(I love the propaganda on the "goon mobiles" or public police squad cars.
I watched one video where one officer beat a unarmed mentally deficient man while the other tasered him with the Camera in one "Goon Mobile" capturing the side of the other "Goon Mobile" that had "Protect Honor Public Safety" written on it.
)I think Bugs Bunny said it best: "What a Maroon!
"Don't fight the Goon...at least not yet.
Wait till the Empire is sufficiently weakened to the point where even the goons don't hold any loyalty or they are forced to shoot or incarcerate their own mothers or children.Then you know its time to organize as time will be on your side.But until then, your going to get run over, beaten, electrocuted or even Microwaved to a slow simmer so don't resist the goon squad.-Hack</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409564</id>
	<title>Health Coverage?</title>
	<author>LifesABeach</author>
	<datestamp>1260541680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I can't help but wonder about Canadian Health Coverage verses American Health Coverage.  Maybe being Renditioned to Canada was the wiser result?  Also, this event makes me think that the movie, "Born in East L.A." is proving to be not so whimsical after all.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't help but wonder about Canadian Health Coverage verses American Health Coverage .
Maybe being Renditioned to Canada was the wiser result ?
Also , this event makes me think that the movie , " Born in East L.A. " is proving to be not so whimsical after all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't help but wonder about Canadian Health Coverage verses American Health Coverage.
Maybe being Renditioned to Canada was the wiser result?
Also, this event makes me think that the movie, "Born in East L.A." is proving to be not so whimsical after all.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410208</id>
	<title>Re:Let's not leap to conclusions.</title>
	<author>Colonel Korn</author>
	<datestamp>1260546660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> We're hearing the account of Cory Doctorow -- who in his novel "Little Brother" had an obvious axe to grind against Homeland Security and law enforcement, to the point of suggesting "9/11 was an inside job". (Says one of the leaflets dropped by the novel's heroic protesters.</p></div><p>It's been awhile, but I seem to recall the protagonist being a bit unnerved by people within his group of protesters who went further than he believed was reasonable.  One of the main themes was free speech, and I believe that unreasonable claims were put forward to give an example of over the top, extremist statements that should still be protected by the first amendment.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We 're hearing the account of Cory Doctorow -- who in his novel " Little Brother " had an obvious axe to grind against Homeland Security and law enforcement , to the point of suggesting " 9/11 was an inside job " .
( Says one of the leaflets dropped by the novel 's heroic protesters.It 's been awhile , but I seem to recall the protagonist being a bit unnerved by people within his group of protesters who went further than he believed was reasonable .
One of the main themes was free speech , and I believe that unreasonable claims were put forward to give an example of over the top , extremist statements that should still be protected by the first amendment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> We're hearing the account of Cory Doctorow -- who in his novel "Little Brother" had an obvious axe to grind against Homeland Security and law enforcement, to the point of suggesting "9/11 was an inside job".
(Says one of the leaflets dropped by the novel's heroic protesters.It's been awhile, but I seem to recall the protagonist being a bit unnerved by people within his group of protesters who went further than he believed was reasonable.
One of the main themes was free speech, and I believe that unreasonable claims were put forward to give an example of over the top, extremist statements that should still be protected by the first amendment.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411502</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>RealGrouchy</author>
	<datestamp>1260558300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>As a Canadian I will never understand why the US is so eager about its boarder security with Canada.</p></div><p>Because they're even more rabid about their only other land border--the one with Mexico. The politicians dress it up to look like they're "protecting [all] their borders" instead of "keeping the Mexicans the fuck out."</p><p>- RG&gt;</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a Canadian I will never understand why the US is so eager about its boarder security with Canada.Because they 're even more rabid about their only other land border--the one with Mexico .
The politicians dress it up to look like they 're " protecting [ all ] their borders " instead of " keeping the Mexicans the fuck out .
" - RG &gt;</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a Canadian I will never understand why the US is so eager about its boarder security with Canada.Because they're even more rabid about their only other land border--the one with Mexico.
The politicians dress it up to look like they're "protecting [all] their borders" instead of "keeping the Mexicans the fuck out.
"- RG&gt;
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409324</id>
	<title>I'm entirely inclined to believe Watts</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260540180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We visited Canada this summer and our experience with the US border patrol when we were returning home leads me to entirely believe the story as told by Watts.  I've honestly had better and more pleasant experiences with the East German border patrol in the mid-80s.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We visited Canada this summer and our experience with the US border patrol when we were returning home leads me to entirely believe the story as told by Watts .
I 've honestly had better and more pleasant experiences with the East German border patrol in the mid-80s .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We visited Canada this summer and our experience with the US border patrol when we were returning home leads me to entirely believe the story as told by Watts.
I've honestly had better and more pleasant experiences with the East German border patrol in the mid-80s.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411660</id>
	<title>"Disemvoweling"? How about "censorship"?</title>
	<author>Dahan</author>
	<datestamp>1260560520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So some of the comments on the boingboing post, e.g., <a href="http://www.boingboing.net/2009/12/11/dr-peter-watts-canad.html#comment-662116" title="boingboing.net">this one</a> [boingboing.net], have had their vowels removed and a "Moderator note" added, with a link to an article about "<a href="http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1852747\_1854195\_1854185,00.html" title="time.com">disemvoweling</a> [time.com]". The article says, "comments on blogs and in other online forums can be incredibly annoying, not to mention hate-filled and obscene. How can moderators walk the line between unregulated anarchy and oppressive censorship? Some have begun discouraging problem commenters by simply removing the vowels from their posts, a process known as disemvoweling. The offending message is rendered less obnoxious, but it's still possible for other readers to decipher it &mdash; f thy rlly wnt t."</p><p>So let's try to decipher one of the disemvoweled comments:</p><blockquote><div><p>It's my observation that most of these cases begin with a person who becomes belligerent when asked to do something he doesn't want to do (get out of the car, step away from the car, etc.) These officers may very well have overstepped their bounds, but I doubt very seriously that Watts is completely innocent.</p><p>I suspect the crux of the matter lies (no pun intended) in this sentence: "When Peter got out of the car and questioned the nature of the search, the gang of border guards subjected him to a beating..."</p><p>So he innocently said, "Why are you searching my car?" Then they commenced to beating him. Sure.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>So <em>that</em> is what the moderators consider "offensive" enough that they think it should be censored? I looked a few more of the censored comments, and they were of a similar vein--suggesting that we don't know the whole story, but doing so politely. Sure is nice to see dissenting viewpoints being suppressed!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>So some of the comments on the boingboing post , e.g. , this one [ boingboing.net ] , have had their vowels removed and a " Moderator note " added , with a link to an article about " disemvoweling [ time.com ] " .
The article says , " comments on blogs and in other online forums can be incredibly annoying , not to mention hate-filled and obscene .
How can moderators walk the line between unregulated anarchy and oppressive censorship ?
Some have begun discouraging problem commenters by simply removing the vowels from their posts , a process known as disemvoweling .
The offending message is rendered less obnoxious , but it 's still possible for other readers to decipher it    f thy rlly wnt t. " So let 's try to decipher one of the disemvoweled comments : It 's my observation that most of these cases begin with a person who becomes belligerent when asked to do something he does n't want to do ( get out of the car , step away from the car , etc .
) These officers may very well have overstepped their bounds , but I doubt very seriously that Watts is completely innocent.I suspect the crux of the matter lies ( no pun intended ) in this sentence : " When Peter got out of the car and questioned the nature of the search , the gang of border guards subjected him to a beating... " So he innocently said , " Why are you searching my car ?
" Then they commenced to beating him .
Sure . So that is what the moderators consider " offensive " enough that they think it should be censored ?
I looked a few more of the censored comments , and they were of a similar vein--suggesting that we do n't know the whole story , but doing so politely .
Sure is nice to see dissenting viewpoints being suppressed !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So some of the comments on the boingboing post, e.g., this one [boingboing.net], have had their vowels removed and a "Moderator note" added, with a link to an article about "disemvoweling [time.com]".
The article says, "comments on blogs and in other online forums can be incredibly annoying, not to mention hate-filled and obscene.
How can moderators walk the line between unregulated anarchy and oppressive censorship?
Some have begun discouraging problem commenters by simply removing the vowels from their posts, a process known as disemvoweling.
The offending message is rendered less obnoxious, but it's still possible for other readers to decipher it — f thy rlly wnt t."So let's try to decipher one of the disemvoweled comments:It's my observation that most of these cases begin with a person who becomes belligerent when asked to do something he doesn't want to do (get out of the car, step away from the car, etc.
) These officers may very well have overstepped their bounds, but I doubt very seriously that Watts is completely innocent.I suspect the crux of the matter lies (no pun intended) in this sentence: "When Peter got out of the car and questioned the nature of the search, the gang of border guards subjected him to a beating..."So he innocently said, "Why are you searching my car?
" Then they commenced to beating him.
Sure.
So that is what the moderators consider "offensive" enough that they think it should be censored?
I looked a few more of the censored comments, and they were of a similar vein--suggesting that we don't know the whole story, but doing so politely.
Sure is nice to see dissenting viewpoints being suppressed!
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410402</id>
	<title>Re:Always the same story...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260548100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Once (a long time ago) i was PROUD to be american..</p><p>Now....  i just hope they don't shoot me for something insane.</p><p>America as a country is swirling down the shitbowl.   The worst part is we're all going along for the ride.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Once ( a long time ago ) i was PROUD to be american..Now.... i just hope they do n't shoot me for something insane.America as a country is swirling down the shitbowl .
The worst part is we 're all going along for the ride .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Once (a long time ago) i was PROUD to be american..Now....  i just hope they don't shoot me for something insane.America as a country is swirling down the shitbowl.
The worst part is we're all going along for the ride.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409372</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411184</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>Wyatt Earp</author>
	<datestamp>1260555120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have a couple minor convictions on my record and had no problem crossing into Canada.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a couple minor convictions on my record and had no problem crossing into Canada .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a couple minor convictions on my record and had no problem crossing into Canada.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410238</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409392</id>
	<title>Re:Let's not leap to conclusions.</title>
	<author>interkin3tic</author>
	<datestamp>1260540600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>who in his novel "Little Brother" had an obvious axe to grind against Homeland Security and law enforcement</p></div><p>Him and millions of other people who realize that a posted sign saying "Don't hijack the plane" would be about as effective and far less annoying than homeland security.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>who in his novel " Little Brother " had an obvious axe to grind against Homeland Security and law enforcementHim and millions of other people who realize that a posted sign saying " Do n't hijack the plane " would be about as effective and far less annoying than homeland security .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>who in his novel "Little Brother" had an obvious axe to grind against Homeland Security and law enforcementHim and millions of other people who realize that a posted sign saying "Don't hijack the plane" would be about as effective and far less annoying than homeland security.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410036</id>
	<title>David Icke Tells it Like it Is sometimes.. Lizards</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260544860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're either a lizard, a lizard collaborator, or you're a.....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're either a lizard , a lizard collaborator , or you 're a.... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're either a lizard, a lizard collaborator, or you're a.....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410496</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260548880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Looking at the borders on google ive always wondered if u could do this...</p><p>So there is no fence to worry about? Do people patrol these areas?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Looking at the borders on google ive always wondered if u could do this...So there is no fence to worry about ?
Do people patrol these areas ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Looking at the borders on google ive always wondered if u could do this...So there is no fence to worry about?
Do people patrol these areas?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411526</id>
	<title>I'm sure all he did . . .</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260558540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>. . . was ask for orange juice. Poor bastard.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>.
. .
was ask for orange juice .
Poor bastard .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>.
. .
was ask for orange juice.
Poor bastard.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409574</id>
	<title>Re:Charges...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260541800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Other forms of "resisting arrest":

<ul>
<li>Not falling down fast enough after being struck or tasered.</li>
<li>Being pushed by an officer into another officer.</li>
<li>Placing or tapping your index finger ever so gently on the officer's shoulder.</li>
<li>Cursing at the officer so that the officer's feelings are hurt.</li>
<li>Having an epileptic seizure or heart attack during arrest.</li>
<li>Not bending like a blade of grass when the officer attempts to wrap your limbs into a pretzel shape.</li>
<li>Not knowing the language or not understanding the officers commands.</li>
<li>Failing to produce a state issued ID card.</li>
<li>Uttering the phrase "I won't answer your questions; I want to speak to a lawyer".</li>
</ul></htmltext>
<tokenext>Other forms of " resisting arrest " : Not falling down fast enough after being struck or tasered .
Being pushed by an officer into another officer .
Placing or tapping your index finger ever so gently on the officer 's shoulder .
Cursing at the officer so that the officer 's feelings are hurt .
Having an epileptic seizure or heart attack during arrest .
Not bending like a blade of grass when the officer attempts to wrap your limbs into a pretzel shape .
Not knowing the language or not understanding the officers commands .
Failing to produce a state issued ID card .
Uttering the phrase " I wo n't answer your questions ; I want to speak to a lawyer " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Other forms of "resisting arrest":


Not falling down fast enough after being struck or tasered.
Being pushed by an officer into another officer.
Placing or tapping your index finger ever so gently on the officer's shoulder.
Cursing at the officer so that the officer's feelings are hurt.
Having an epileptic seizure or heart attack during arrest.
Not bending like a blade of grass when the officer attempts to wrap your limbs into a pretzel shape.
Not knowing the language or not understanding the officers commands.
Failing to produce a state issued ID card.
Uttering the phrase "I won't answer your questions; I want to speak to a lawyer".
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409294</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409844</id>
	<title>border...</title>
	<author>Bysshe</author>
	<datestamp>1260543540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm totally a fan for border patrols... however there should be a shift in their duties. Instead of keeping canadians and mexicans out, they should focus on keeping americans in.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm totally a fan for border patrols... however there should be a shift in their duties .
Instead of keeping canadians and mexicans out , they should focus on keeping americans in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm totally a fan for border patrols... however there should be a shift in their duties.
Instead of keeping canadians and mexicans out, they should focus on keeping americans in.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409650</id>
	<title>Re:Always the same story...</title>
	<author>B Nesson</author>
	<datestamp>1260542340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yeah, don't be surprised if you're pepper-sprayed and dumped in a winter storm with no coat, left to fend for yourself because you hurt someone's feelings.  You should know better.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , do n't be surprised if you 're pepper-sprayed and dumped in a winter storm with no coat , left to fend for yourself because you hurt someone 's feelings .
You should know better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, don't be surprised if you're pepper-sprayed and dumped in a winter storm with no coat, left to fend for yourself because you hurt someone's feelings.
You should know better.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409372</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411354</id>
	<title>Candian Border Officials Aren't Sweethearts Either</title>
	<author>thesandbender</author>
	<datestamp>1260556620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Note: This doesn't excuse or compare to what is alleged to have happened to Mr. Watts<br> <br>
I'm a US citizen and out of four times I've been to Canada for work, I've been "held" for almost 9 hours, flat out threatened with official detainment and denial of entry.  I have no criminal record, no arrest record, I have never had any problems with entry into any other countries and I'm always exceedingly polite and patient b/c I know how frustrating it can be to deal with the same headaches day in, day out (and it pays... can't count how many times I've gotten free hotel/car upgrades or even just drinks on the plane just by being nice instead of an a**).<br> <br>In every case I was told that I did not have the proper paperwork and that I was coming in to "steal" jobs from Canadians.  The hell it was I was coming in to do contract work for the Canadian Revenue Agency (CCRA) and all my paperwork was from the CCRA.  In the worst case they tried to deny entry b/c I did not have my hotel reservations on me (they were in my luggage that Air Canada misplaced) but did have my papers from CCRA.  They wouldn't allow me to pull up the hotel reservations up on my laptop b/c it was "illegal" to use it until I had cleared customs.  They finally agreed but only with a official watching everything over my shoulder and insisting I provide them with the password(s) for my laptop just in case they needed it for "evidence" (and that took an hour of reasoning and me asking for a written explanation of why I was being denied entry).<br> <br>
It's a shocking contrast to the people you meet and work with once your past the gates.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Note : This does n't excuse or compare to what is alleged to have happened to Mr. Watts I 'm a US citizen and out of four times I 've been to Canada for work , I 've been " held " for almost 9 hours , flat out threatened with official detainment and denial of entry .
I have no criminal record , no arrest record , I have never had any problems with entry into any other countries and I 'm always exceedingly polite and patient b/c I know how frustrating it can be to deal with the same headaches day in , day out ( and it pays... ca n't count how many times I 've gotten free hotel/car upgrades or even just drinks on the plane just by being nice instead of an a * * ) .
In every case I was told that I did not have the proper paperwork and that I was coming in to " steal " jobs from Canadians .
The hell it was I was coming in to do contract work for the Canadian Revenue Agency ( CCRA ) and all my paperwork was from the CCRA .
In the worst case they tried to deny entry b/c I did not have my hotel reservations on me ( they were in my luggage that Air Canada misplaced ) but did have my papers from CCRA .
They would n't allow me to pull up the hotel reservations up on my laptop b/c it was " illegal " to use it until I had cleared customs .
They finally agreed but only with a official watching everything over my shoulder and insisting I provide them with the password ( s ) for my laptop just in case they needed it for " evidence " ( and that took an hour of reasoning and me asking for a written explanation of why I was being denied entry ) .
It 's a shocking contrast to the people you meet and work with once your past the gates .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Note: This doesn't excuse or compare to what is alleged to have happened to Mr. Watts 
I'm a US citizen and out of four times I've been to Canada for work, I've been "held" for almost 9 hours, flat out threatened with official detainment and denial of entry.
I have no criminal record, no arrest record, I have never had any problems with entry into any other countries and I'm always exceedingly polite and patient b/c I know how frustrating it can be to deal with the same headaches day in, day out (and it pays... can't count how many times I've gotten free hotel/car upgrades or even just drinks on the plane just by being nice instead of an a**).
In every case I was told that I did not have the proper paperwork and that I was coming in to "steal" jobs from Canadians.
The hell it was I was coming in to do contract work for the Canadian Revenue Agency (CCRA) and all my paperwork was from the CCRA.
In the worst case they tried to deny entry b/c I did not have my hotel reservations on me (they were in my luggage that Air Canada misplaced) but did have my papers from CCRA.
They wouldn't allow me to pull up the hotel reservations up on my laptop b/c it was "illegal" to use it until I had cleared customs.
They finally agreed but only with a official watching everything over my shoulder and insisting I provide them with the password(s) for my laptop just in case they needed it for "evidence" (and that took an hour of reasoning and me asking for a written explanation of why I was being denied entry).
It's a shocking contrast to the people you meet and work with once your past the gates.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30416798</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260609720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe they want to stop the weird canadian spelling of the word border from entering the american language?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe they want to stop the weird canadian spelling of the word border from entering the american language ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe they want to stop the weird canadian spelling of the word border from entering the american language?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30412744</id>
	<title>Re:Something stinks here...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260620940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Sorry, getting out of a car is an aggressive act?!?!</i></p><p>Yes, because it is often followed by shooting at an officer.</p><p>If you get stopped in the US by police or border patrol, keep your hands on the steering wheel, don't fumble around in the car, and wait for the instructions from the officer.  That's true in many other countries too.</p><p>And if that's not the way it works in your country yet, it will, as guns are getting cheaper and criminals are getting more aggressive.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry , getting out of a car is an aggressive act ? ! ?
! Yes , because it is often followed by shooting at an officer.If you get stopped in the US by police or border patrol , keep your hands on the steering wheel , do n't fumble around in the car , and wait for the instructions from the officer .
That 's true in many other countries too.And if that 's not the way it works in your country yet , it will , as guns are getting cheaper and criminals are getting more aggressive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry, getting out of a car is an aggressive act?!?
!Yes, because it is often followed by shooting at an officer.If you get stopped in the US by police or border patrol, keep your hands on the steering wheel, don't fumble around in the car, and wait for the instructions from the officer.
That's true in many other countries too.And if that's not the way it works in your country yet, it will, as guns are getting cheaper and criminals are getting more aggressive.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409506</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409740</id>
	<title>Time for US to rein in the thugs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260542880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's no "law" at play in this kind of an incident.  Thanks to the "War on Terror" and the "War on Drugs", our civil rights are forfeit.</p><p>This is called tyranny.  We are therefore subjugated and oppressed.  We have no real rights.  The rights we're told we have are false.  The US system of law has degenerated into a system of oppression.  It's "might", not "right".  Power trumps principle.</p><p>"American freedom" is a laughingstock.  We are not a nation of justice, truth, and human rights; we are a nation of liars, cheats, and thugs.  And we don't have any right to talk about "freedom", or "liberty", given that this is an entire history, not just a bad example or a bad decade, of injustice, oppression, propaganda.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's no " law " at play in this kind of an incident .
Thanks to the " War on Terror " and the " War on Drugs " , our civil rights are forfeit.This is called tyranny .
We are therefore subjugated and oppressed .
We have no real rights .
The rights we 're told we have are false .
The US system of law has degenerated into a system of oppression .
It 's " might " , not " right " .
Power trumps principle .
" American freedom " is a laughingstock .
We are not a nation of justice , truth , and human rights ; we are a nation of liars , cheats , and thugs .
And we do n't have any right to talk about " freedom " , or " liberty " , given that this is an entire history , not just a bad example or a bad decade , of injustice , oppression , propaganda .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's no "law" at play in this kind of an incident.
Thanks to the "War on Terror" and the "War on Drugs", our civil rights are forfeit.This is called tyranny.
We are therefore subjugated and oppressed.
We have no real rights.
The rights we're told we have are false.
The US system of law has degenerated into a system of oppression.
It's "might", not "right".
Power trumps principle.
"American freedom" is a laughingstock.
We are not a nation of justice, truth, and human rights; we are a nation of liars, cheats, and thugs.
And we don't have any right to talk about "freedom", or "liberty", given that this is an entire history, not just a bad example or a bad decade, of injustice, oppression, propaganda.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410270</id>
	<title>statement of admission</title>
	<author>doug141</author>
	<datestamp>1260547140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Watts has already made a statement on his blog that can be used against him.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Watts has already made a statement on his blog that can be used against him .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Watts has already made a statement on his blog that can be used against him.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411364</id>
	<title>Re:.. and this is why tourism is down...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260556680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Agreed.  I won't even transfer through the US anymore; I'd rather take a more expensive flight or a more roundabout one than transfer through the US.  I figure the extra time on the flight is more than adequately offset by the waiting time in lines to see security.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed .
I wo n't even transfer through the US anymore ; I 'd rather take a more expensive flight or a more roundabout one than transfer through the US .
I figure the extra time on the flight is more than adequately offset by the waiting time in lines to see security .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed.
I won't even transfer through the US anymore; I'd rather take a more expensive flight or a more roundabout one than transfer through the US.
I figure the extra time on the flight is more than adequately offset by the waiting time in lines to see security.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411984</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260608700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Handguns are perfectly legal in Canada as long as they're registered, and it's not hard to get one legally. I have three.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Handguns are perfectly legal in Canada as long as they 're registered , and it 's not hard to get one legally .
I have three .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Handguns are perfectly legal in Canada as long as they're registered, and it's not hard to get one legally.
I have three.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409698</id>
	<title>Re:Something stinks here...</title>
	<author>node 3</author>
	<datestamp>1260542640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Getting out of the car uninvited is an aggressive act. How were the officers to know whether or not he was a threat.</p></div><p>So beating him, imprisoning him, then threatening to charge him for assault (an almost inevitable side-effect of being beaten), is a measured response for people <i>with guns</i>, when confronted by a man with the audacity to make the terrifyingly aggressive action of exiting his car?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Getting out of the car uninvited is an aggressive act .
How were the officers to know whether or not he was a threat.So beating him , imprisoning him , then threatening to charge him for assault ( an almost inevitable side-effect of being beaten ) , is a measured response for people with guns , when confronted by a man with the audacity to make the terrifyingly aggressive action of exiting his car ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Getting out of the car uninvited is an aggressive act.
How were the officers to know whether or not he was a threat.So beating him, imprisoning him, then threatening to charge him for assault (an almost inevitable side-effect of being beaten), is a measured response for people with guns, when confronted by a man with the audacity to make the terrifyingly aggressive action of exiting his car?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409352</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30412242</id>
	<title>Re:learn the law, son</title>
	<author>Khyber</author>
	<datestamp>1260614400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are NOT required to possess identification.</p><p>You're required to IDENTIFY YOURSELF. You do not need to carry the identification, as long as the documentation can be verified. I do not carry my license unless I am making a liquor purchase - I only carry my proof of insurance and my registration, those along with my memorized driver license number and that's one less piece of plastic to get stolen from me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are NOT required to possess identification.You 're required to IDENTIFY YOURSELF .
You do not need to carry the identification , as long as the documentation can be verified .
I do not carry my license unless I am making a liquor purchase - I only carry my proof of insurance and my registration , those along with my memorized driver license number and that 's one less piece of plastic to get stolen from me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are NOT required to possess identification.You're required to IDENTIFY YOURSELF.
You do not need to carry the identification, as long as the documentation can be verified.
I do not carry my license unless I am making a liquor purchase - I only carry my proof of insurance and my registration, those along with my memorized driver license number and that's one less piece of plastic to get stolen from me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410488</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410512</id>
	<title>Re:Always the same story...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260549000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You terrify me. US border guards don't terrify me. You do. Blind obedience to authority is how the Nazis got away with the holocaust. This motive of unction and fear is despicable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You terrify me .
US border guards do n't terrify me .
You do .
Blind obedience to authority is how the Nazis got away with the holocaust .
This motive of unction and fear is despicable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You terrify me.
US border guards don't terrify me.
You do.
Blind obedience to authority is how the Nazis got away with the holocaust.
This motive of unction and fear is despicable.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409372</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409684</id>
	<title>Cue all the police-loving comments</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260542520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Come on guys, let's hear it.</p><p>"Watts had it coming."</p><p>"They were just doing their job."</p><p>"He should have kept his mouth shut."</p><p>"Sieg Heil!"</p><p>You pro-police assholes who jerk off to cop shows and cheer on police brutality have your chance to come out of the woodwork, as you always do, to tell us all how being a cop is so "stressful", and this kind of thing "just happens" from time to time, and we need to "deal with it".</p><p>Come on, out with it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Come on guys , let 's hear it .
" Watts had it coming .
" " They were just doing their job .
" " He should have kept his mouth shut .
" " Sieg Heil !
" You pro-police assholes who jerk off to cop shows and cheer on police brutality have your chance to come out of the woodwork , as you always do , to tell us all how being a cop is so " stressful " , and this kind of thing " just happens " from time to time , and we need to " deal with it " .Come on , out with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Come on guys, let's hear it.
"Watts had it coming.
""They were just doing their job.
""He should have kept his mouth shut.
""Sieg Heil!
"You pro-police assholes who jerk off to cop shows and cheer on police brutality have your chance to come out of the woodwork, as you always do, to tell us all how being a cop is so "stressful", and this kind of thing "just happens" from time to time, and we need to "deal with it".Come on, out with it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409888</id>
	<title>Re:Let's not leap to conclusions.</title>
	<author>vux984</author>
	<datestamp>1260543900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>why is it you would take that as a given but fail to believe this guy with an axe to grind isn't a huge dick himself?</i></p><p>I'm happy to believe he might have been a dick with an axe to grind. But he wasn't in a position of power. And one can't abuse power one doesn't have. Or do you think he</p><p><i>this form of selective hearing people seem to have is whats wrong with the world.</i></p><p>Apparently you asked the question, and assumed the answer. I said I was happy to believe he was a dick with an axe to grind.</p><p><i>I've crossed many borders many times including the US, and it've never had a single problem. you know why? because i don't act like an asshole the moment one of these guys tries to do his job. i've been scanned, sniffed, searched the whole lot and the grand total time in 10 years of travel that this has cost me wouldn't be more then 1 hour tops.</i></p><p>Lucky you. But that doesn't prove a thing.</p><p><i>next time some over worked under paid public servant stops you and asks to look in your bag, how about you try being polite, smiling ask them how their day is going and say thanks have a nice day when they are done? i'd bet money that's not what this guy did...</i></p><p>I suspect our border crossing gaurd wasn't polite, smiling, asked them how their day was, or said thanks either. I'd bet money on that too. Honestly, they get back what they give.</p><p>But that's almost entirely beside the point. They may have a shitty job and people might hate dealing with them, but part of that shitty job is to deal with the fact that they have shitty job and people hate dealing with them.</p><p>An IRS auditor has a shitty job too, but he doesn't get to beat people up, pepper spray them, and so forth.</p><p>And border patrol... they don't actually get to beat people up, pepper spray them, and arrest them for simply being rude, belligerent, or stand-offish. Unfortunately they can get away with it, and they know they can get away with it, and so they do it.</p><p>Sure if they feel the need to detain someone, because they got out their car and started yelling that's fine... but they went WAY beyond that. They routinely use completely inappropriate levels of force, and they know damned well its inappropriate. But they are almost untouchable... and they know it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>why is it you would take that as a given but fail to believe this guy with an axe to grind is n't a huge dick himself ? I 'm happy to believe he might have been a dick with an axe to grind .
But he was n't in a position of power .
And one ca n't abuse power one does n't have .
Or do you think hethis form of selective hearing people seem to have is whats wrong with the world.Apparently you asked the question , and assumed the answer .
I said I was happy to believe he was a dick with an axe to grind.I 've crossed many borders many times including the US , and it 've never had a single problem .
you know why ?
because i do n't act like an asshole the moment one of these guys tries to do his job .
i 've been scanned , sniffed , searched the whole lot and the grand total time in 10 years of travel that this has cost me would n't be more then 1 hour tops.Lucky you .
But that does n't prove a thing.next time some over worked under paid public servant stops you and asks to look in your bag , how about you try being polite , smiling ask them how their day is going and say thanks have a nice day when they are done ?
i 'd bet money that 's not what this guy did...I suspect our border crossing gaurd was n't polite , smiling , asked them how their day was , or said thanks either .
I 'd bet money on that too .
Honestly , they get back what they give.But that 's almost entirely beside the point .
They may have a shitty job and people might hate dealing with them , but part of that shitty job is to deal with the fact that they have shitty job and people hate dealing with them.An IRS auditor has a shitty job too , but he does n't get to beat people up , pepper spray them , and so forth.And border patrol... they do n't actually get to beat people up , pepper spray them , and arrest them for simply being rude , belligerent , or stand-offish .
Unfortunately they can get away with it , and they know they can get away with it , and so they do it.Sure if they feel the need to detain someone , because they got out their car and started yelling that 's fine... but they went WAY beyond that .
They routinely use completely inappropriate levels of force , and they know damned well its inappropriate .
But they are almost untouchable... and they know it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>why is it you would take that as a given but fail to believe this guy with an axe to grind isn't a huge dick himself?I'm happy to believe he might have been a dick with an axe to grind.
But he wasn't in a position of power.
And one can't abuse power one doesn't have.
Or do you think hethis form of selective hearing people seem to have is whats wrong with the world.Apparently you asked the question, and assumed the answer.
I said I was happy to believe he was a dick with an axe to grind.I've crossed many borders many times including the US, and it've never had a single problem.
you know why?
because i don't act like an asshole the moment one of these guys tries to do his job.
i've been scanned, sniffed, searched the whole lot and the grand total time in 10 years of travel that this has cost me wouldn't be more then 1 hour tops.Lucky you.
But that doesn't prove a thing.next time some over worked under paid public servant stops you and asks to look in your bag, how about you try being polite, smiling ask them how their day is going and say thanks have a nice day when they are done?
i'd bet money that's not what this guy did...I suspect our border crossing gaurd wasn't polite, smiling, asked them how their day was, or said thanks either.
I'd bet money on that too.
Honestly, they get back what they give.But that's almost entirely beside the point.
They may have a shitty job and people might hate dealing with them, but part of that shitty job is to deal with the fact that they have shitty job and people hate dealing with them.An IRS auditor has a shitty job too, but he doesn't get to beat people up, pepper spray them, and so forth.And border patrol... they don't actually get to beat people up, pepper spray them, and arrest them for simply being rude, belligerent, or stand-offish.
Unfortunately they can get away with it, and they know they can get away with it, and so they do it.Sure if they feel the need to detain someone, because they got out their car and started yelling that's fine... but they went WAY beyond that.
They routinely use completely inappropriate levels of force, and they know damned well its inappropriate.
But they are almost untouchable... and they know it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409572</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30413462</id>
	<title>Re:Always the same story...</title>
	<author>theolein</author>
	<datestamp>1260629160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I will not go to the US again either. Not that I dislike the country but the treatment and procedures at borders and airports by border officials and customs makes it simply not worth the effort.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I will not go to the US again either .
Not that I dislike the country but the treatment and procedures at borders and airports by border officials and customs makes it simply not worth the effort .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I will not go to the US again either.
Not that I dislike the country but the treatment and procedures at borders and airports by border officials and customs makes it simply not worth the effort.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30415874</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260646620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The only real threat at the CAN/US boarder is people bringing handguns into Canada (where they are illegal) and selling them to Toronto street gangs.</p></div><p>This is miss-Information.  Handguns are not illegal in Canada.  They are restricted and prohibited, under Bill C-68, you are required to pass another exam to get the license.  Handguns are in a different legal class than rifles, or shotguns, they are not illegal, despite what the liberals want you to believe.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only real threat at the CAN/US boarder is people bringing handguns into Canada ( where they are illegal ) and selling them to Toronto street gangs.This is miss-Information .
Handguns are not illegal in Canada .
They are restricted and prohibited , under Bill C-68 , you are required to pass another exam to get the license .
Handguns are in a different legal class than rifles , or shotguns , they are not illegal , despite what the liberals want you to believe .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only real threat at the CAN/US boarder is people bringing handguns into Canada (where they are illegal) and selling them to Toronto street gangs.This is miss-Information.
Handguns are not illegal in Canada.
They are restricted and prohibited, under Bill C-68, you are required to pass another exam to get the license.
Handguns are in a different legal class than rifles, or shotguns, they are not illegal, despite what the liberals want you to believe.
 
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30416066</id>
	<title>i see this story is tagged fascism</title>
	<author>circletimessquare</author>
	<datestamp>1260648180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>fascist propaganda is full of stories that are outright fabrications or contain only a tiny grain of truth, but are designed to amp up the emotional reaction of the reader to the max</p><p>and lo and behold: look at the reactions under this story. for all those reacting in high holy indignation: you're all fodder for fascism, as your mind is primed to overreact in kneejerk emotional ways and jump to absurd conclusions based on the sketchy details of a border dispute</p><p>none of you overreacting in this thread represent a protection from fascism. in your overreactions is a good representation of the soil in which fascism grows: jumping to angry and emotional based on flimsy sketchy evidence</p><p>fucking pathetic</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>fascist propaganda is full of stories that are outright fabrications or contain only a tiny grain of truth , but are designed to amp up the emotional reaction of the reader to the maxand lo and behold : look at the reactions under this story .
for all those reacting in high holy indignation : you 're all fodder for fascism , as your mind is primed to overreact in kneejerk emotional ways and jump to absurd conclusions based on the sketchy details of a border disputenone of you overreacting in this thread represent a protection from fascism .
in your overreactions is a good representation of the soil in which fascism grows : jumping to angry and emotional based on flimsy sketchy evidencefucking pathetic</tokentext>
<sentencetext>fascist propaganda is full of stories that are outright fabrications or contain only a tiny grain of truth, but are designed to amp up the emotional reaction of the reader to the maxand lo and behold: look at the reactions under this story.
for all those reacting in high holy indignation: you're all fodder for fascism, as your mind is primed to overreact in kneejerk emotional ways and jump to absurd conclusions based on the sketchy details of a border disputenone of you overreacting in this thread represent a protection from fascism.
in your overreactions is a good representation of the soil in which fascism grows: jumping to angry and emotional based on flimsy sketchy evidencefucking pathetic</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410050</id>
	<title>Re:Let's not leap to conclusions.</title>
	<author>capnkr</author>
	<datestamp>1260544980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Mod UP. Great common sense, common courtesy advice. Advice that will go a LONG way towards keeping you out of trouble with "Big Brother".<br> <br>And for those here who are so quick to protest <i>(from behind the warmth and security of their keyboards)</i> that: <i>"We should fight such evil!"</i> - Think about it, kid - it's hard to fight The Man, when he has you locked in a little cell. Best to do what is needed to stay outside, where you can apply your efforts to something other than mental masturbation and protest screes that will only be heard/read by a very, very few...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Mod UP .
Great common sense , common courtesy advice .
Advice that will go a LONG way towards keeping you out of trouble with " Big Brother " .
And for those here who are so quick to protest ( from behind the warmth and security of their keyboards ) that : " We should fight such evil !
" - Think about it , kid - it 's hard to fight The Man , when he has you locked in a little cell .
Best to do what is needed to stay outside , where you can apply your efforts to something other than mental masturbation and protest screes that will only be heard/read by a very , very few.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mod UP.
Great common sense, common courtesy advice.
Advice that will go a LONG way towards keeping you out of trouble with "Big Brother".
And for those here who are so quick to protest (from behind the warmth and security of their keyboards) that: "We should fight such evil!
" - Think about it, kid - it's hard to fight The Man, when he has you locked in a little cell.
Best to do what is needed to stay outside, where you can apply your efforts to something other than mental masturbation and protest screes that will only be heard/read by a very, very few...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409572</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30418208</id>
	<title>Re:Fail: Dealing with Police 101</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260620100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh so if you were a "black boy" you'd do what? Seriously, when will you white people learn to respect their own fucking race?! White guy would have sufficed, you know... But nooo, you had to demean yourself to the level of a 19th century slave being called "boy" by his white master. Why don't you go kiss some black ass and call him/her Massa while you're at it?</p><p>You know what, if you seriously can't respect yourself and your race, then you fully deserve the demeaning title of white boy. You're ashamed of who you are and you feel the need to apologize for your ancestors alleged transgressions. We'd be better off without you calling yourself white, thank you. Why not something more appropriate like slave boy? Yeah, that outta suit you just fine.</p><p>Having pride in your own race != racism. The sooner you learn that, the sooner you'll stop being used by the media and their agenda of shoving shame and guilt down your throat for no reason other than the fact that you're white.</p><p>-Pale, geeky, white and damn proud of it. And definitely not racist, too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh so if you were a " black boy " you 'd do what ?
Seriously , when will you white people learn to respect their own fucking race ? !
White guy would have sufficed , you know... But nooo , you had to demean yourself to the level of a 19th century slave being called " boy " by his white master .
Why do n't you go kiss some black ass and call him/her Massa while you 're at it ? You know what , if you seriously ca n't respect yourself and your race , then you fully deserve the demeaning title of white boy .
You 're ashamed of who you are and you feel the need to apologize for your ancestors alleged transgressions .
We 'd be better off without you calling yourself white , thank you .
Why not something more appropriate like slave boy ?
Yeah , that outta suit you just fine.Having pride in your own race ! = racism .
The sooner you learn that , the sooner you 'll stop being used by the media and their agenda of shoving shame and guilt down your throat for no reason other than the fact that you 're white.-Pale , geeky , white and damn proud of it .
And definitely not racist , too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh so if you were a "black boy" you'd do what?
Seriously, when will you white people learn to respect their own fucking race?!
White guy would have sufficed, you know... But nooo, you had to demean yourself to the level of a 19th century slave being called "boy" by his white master.
Why don't you go kiss some black ass and call him/her Massa while you're at it?You know what, if you seriously can't respect yourself and your race, then you fully deserve the demeaning title of white boy.
You're ashamed of who you are and you feel the need to apologize for your ancestors alleged transgressions.
We'd be better off without you calling yourself white, thank you.
Why not something more appropriate like slave boy?
Yeah, that outta suit you just fine.Having pride in your own race != racism.
The sooner you learn that, the sooner you'll stop being used by the media and their agenda of shoving shame and guilt down your throat for no reason other than the fact that you're white.-Pale, geeky, white and damn proud of it.
And definitely not racist, too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410532</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409636</id>
	<title>hmmm</title>
	<author>MagicM</author>
	<datestamp>1260542280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>inb4 not your personal army</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>inb4 not your personal army</tokentext>
<sentencetext>inb4 not your personal army</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30415604</id>
	<title>Re:Let's not leap to conclusions.</title>
	<author>lawpoop</author>
	<datestamp>1260644820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>We're hearing the account of Cory Doctorow -- who in his novel "Little Brother" had an obvious axe to grind against Homeland Security and law enforcement, to the point of suggesting "9/11 was an inside job".</p></div><p>Yeah, because characters of a novel are simply carboard cut-outs that espouse the author's personal views, and they all agree with one another. They never complex creations that come into conflict with other characters, or even have conflicts of their own, leading to drama and a good story. &lt;/sarcasm&gt;</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We 're hearing the account of Cory Doctorow -- who in his novel " Little Brother " had an obvious axe to grind against Homeland Security and law enforcement , to the point of suggesting " 9/11 was an inside job " .Yeah , because characters of a novel are simply carboard cut-outs that espouse the author 's personal views , and they all agree with one another .
They never complex creations that come into conflict with other characters , or even have conflicts of their own , leading to drama and a good story .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We're hearing the account of Cory Doctorow -- who in his novel "Little Brother" had an obvious axe to grind against Homeland Security and law enforcement, to the point of suggesting "9/11 was an inside job".Yeah, because characters of a novel are simply carboard cut-outs that espouse the author's personal views, and they all agree with one another.
They never complex creations that come into conflict with other characters, or even have conflicts of their own, leading to drama and a good story. 
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410726</id>
	<title>Re:Always the same story...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260550740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Do what they ask, obey their orders, don't be a smartass - as a result, you will generally speaking be OK.</p><p>If you talk back, disobey orders and give them a hard time, crap like this will most likely happen to you because you escalate the situation and make the lives of people who already have miserable jobs more miserable. That's not an excuse, but don't be surprised when stuff like this happens.</p></div><p>This coming from the country that issues human rights report every year to criticize other country for human rights issues.</p><p>Not to say the reports are inaccurate, but is it any wonder that the rest of the world don't give a damn about whatever accusations raised by America?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do what they ask , obey their orders , do n't be a smartass - as a result , you will generally speaking be OK.If you talk back , disobey orders and give them a hard time , crap like this will most likely happen to you because you escalate the situation and make the lives of people who already have miserable jobs more miserable .
That 's not an excuse , but do n't be surprised when stuff like this happens.This coming from the country that issues human rights report every year to criticize other country for human rights issues.Not to say the reports are inaccurate , but is it any wonder that the rest of the world do n't give a damn about whatever accusations raised by America ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do what they ask, obey their orders, don't be a smartass - as a result, you will generally speaking be OK.If you talk back, disobey orders and give them a hard time, crap like this will most likely happen to you because you escalate the situation and make the lives of people who already have miserable jobs more miserable.
That's not an excuse, but don't be surprised when stuff like this happens.This coming from the country that issues human rights report every year to criticize other country for human rights issues.Not to say the reports are inaccurate, but is it any wonder that the rest of the world don't give a damn about whatever accusations raised by America?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409372</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410942</id>
	<title>Re:Not worth it.</title>
	<author>kwandar</author>
	<datestamp>1260552300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I regularly crossed the border.  (Regular as in once every couple of weeks) for a number of years).  At first there was no issue, but then<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... worse and worse.</p><p>Border guards are not the most intelligent creatures on this planet (I'm well employed, with professional designations that get me through any border) and US border guards in particular seem to love the power of it<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..... and they have a LOT of power.  You don't have constitutional rights at the border.</p><p>Hassle level just kept increasing, and I didn't have to experience more to believe the stories.  Why take the risk?  Really?  We've seen stories of illegal rendition of Canadians to 3rd world countries, torture, detention, quasi-illegal wiretapping.  We've been astounded to see our neighbour throw out the rule of law, and export some of that culture of paranoia to Canada.</p><p>I just stopped doing business there. Simpler and safer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I regularly crossed the border .
( Regular as in once every couple of weeks ) for a number of years ) .
At first there was no issue , but then .... worse and worse.Border guards are not the most intelligent creatures on this planet ( I 'm well employed , with professional designations that get me through any border ) and US border guards in particular seem to love the power of it ..... and they have a LOT of power .
You do n't have constitutional rights at the border.Hassle level just kept increasing , and I did n't have to experience more to believe the stories .
Why take the risk ?
Really ? We 've seen stories of illegal rendition of Canadians to 3rd world countries , torture , detention , quasi-illegal wiretapping .
We 've been astounded to see our neighbour throw out the rule of law , and export some of that culture of paranoia to Canada.I just stopped doing business there .
Simpler and safer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I regularly crossed the border.
(Regular as in once every couple of weeks) for a number of years).
At first there was no issue, but then .... worse and worse.Border guards are not the most intelligent creatures on this planet (I'm well employed, with professional designations that get me through any border) and US border guards in particular seem to love the power of it ..... and they have a LOT of power.
You don't have constitutional rights at the border.Hassle level just kept increasing, and I didn't have to experience more to believe the stories.
Why take the risk?
Really?  We've seen stories of illegal rendition of Canadians to 3rd world countries, torture, detention, quasi-illegal wiretapping.
We've been astounded to see our neighbour throw out the rule of law, and export some of that culture of paranoia to Canada.I just stopped doing business there.
Simpler and safer.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410178</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30415278</id>
	<title>Re:You and Watts are ignorant asshats.</title>
	<author>rochrist</author>
	<datestamp>1260643020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is pretty damn funny.

Yeah, the East German border guards during the cold war had<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/no/ stress whatsoever.

Fail.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is pretty damn funny .
Yeah , the East German border guards during the cold war had /no/ stress whatsoever .
Fail .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is pretty damn funny.
Yeah, the East German border guards during the cold war had /no/ stress whatsoever.
Fail.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410054</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30415274</id>
	<title>Perception is important.</title>
	<author>CountBrass</author>
	<datestamp>1260642900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes but this is just one of too many stories about over-reactions (to put it kindly) and outright dishonest behaviour by the boarder guards of various types, including the TSA.<br><br>Why risk it when there's the rest of the world to visit?<br><br>I've been to Japan, twice, since deciding not to go to the US anymore. They have pretty much the same checks as the US (fingerprints, photo on entry, declaration that you're not evil, IR checks to see if you have a fever) but not once did I feel threatened. The finger-print machine is more like playing a Nintendo DS or some Hello Kitty game! And none of the staff acted in a threatening or even over-bearing manner. They were cool and professional.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes but this is just one of too many stories about over-reactions ( to put it kindly ) and outright dishonest behaviour by the boarder guards of various types , including the TSA.Why risk it when there 's the rest of the world to visit ? I 've been to Japan , twice , since deciding not to go to the US anymore .
They have pretty much the same checks as the US ( fingerprints , photo on entry , declaration that you 're not evil , IR checks to see if you have a fever ) but not once did I feel threatened .
The finger-print machine is more like playing a Nintendo DS or some Hello Kitty game !
And none of the staff acted in a threatening or even over-bearing manner .
They were cool and professional .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes but this is just one of too many stories about over-reactions (to put it kindly) and outright dishonest behaviour by the boarder guards of various types, including the TSA.Why risk it when there's the rest of the world to visit?I've been to Japan, twice, since deciding not to go to the US anymore.
They have pretty much the same checks as the US (fingerprints, photo on entry, declaration that you're not evil, IR checks to see if you have a fever) but not once did I feel threatened.
The finger-print machine is more like playing a Nintendo DS or some Hello Kitty game!
And none of the staff acted in a threatening or even over-bearing manner.
They were cool and professional.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410178</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30418616</id>
	<title>Re:Wow</title>
	<author>frank\_adrian314159</author>
	<datestamp>1260624840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because, in case you were too stupid to notice, we now get to blame Obama for everything.  Wake up!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because , in case you were too stupid to notice , we now get to blame Obama for everything .
Wake up !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because, in case you were too stupid to notice, we now get to blame Obama for everything.
Wake up!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409890</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30412712</id>
	<title>let the legal system work it out</title>
	<author>pydev</author>
	<datestamp>1260620580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So far, all we have is his side of the story, and I don't find it particularly consistent.  But, yes, it is possible: border guards sometimes screw up.</p><p>The incident has almost certainly been video taped, so we should just wait for the legal system to work it out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So far , all we have is his side of the story , and I do n't find it particularly consistent .
But , yes , it is possible : border guards sometimes screw up.The incident has almost certainly been video taped , so we should just wait for the legal system to work it out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So far, all we have is his side of the story, and I don't find it particularly consistent.
But, yes, it is possible: border guards sometimes screw up.The incident has almost certainly been video taped, so we should just wait for the legal system to work it out.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410488</id>
	<title>Re:learn the law, son</title>
	<author>znerk</author>
	<datestamp>1260548820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>And, whether you are required to present state ID varies state-to-state, but most only require that if you're driving. If you're not driving, you're not required to carry ID.</p></div><p>Are you sure on that? Every police officer I have asked has said that I *am* required to possess (and show upon request) state-issued identification. Not possessing ID is supposedly reasonable suspicion of being involved in an illegal activity, and grounds for "detaining and questioning". I was also told this by an officer who stopped me for the suspicious activity described by most as "walking down a public street, on the sidewalk, after dark".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And , whether you are required to present state ID varies state-to-state , but most only require that if you 're driving .
If you 're not driving , you 're not required to carry ID.Are you sure on that ?
Every police officer I have asked has said that I * am * required to possess ( and show upon request ) state-issued identification .
Not possessing ID is supposedly reasonable suspicion of being involved in an illegal activity , and grounds for " detaining and questioning " .
I was also told this by an officer who stopped me for the suspicious activity described by most as " walking down a public street , on the sidewalk , after dark " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And, whether you are required to present state ID varies state-to-state, but most only require that if you're driving.
If you're not driving, you're not required to carry ID.Are you sure on that?
Every police officer I have asked has said that I *am* required to possess (and show upon request) state-issued identification.
Not possessing ID is supposedly reasonable suspicion of being involved in an illegal activity, and grounds for "detaining and questioning".
I was also told this by an officer who stopped me for the suspicious activity described by most as "walking down a public street, on the sidewalk, after dark".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409994</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411652</id>
	<title>Re:.. and this is why tourism is down...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260560340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just avoid the US. Plenty of other places want your business and are willing to trade money for goods and services. Take your tourist money elsewhere.</p><p>Steal my laptop at the border? Beat me up because I refuse to cower to some idiot guard? Keep my head down? Accept pepper spray in my eyes because I ask why I'm being arrested? Have my equipment searched then not returned?</p><p>WTF?!</p><p>Land of the free? Give me a break. You don't even have democracy nor freedom.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just avoid the US .
Plenty of other places want your business and are willing to trade money for goods and services .
Take your tourist money elsewhere.Steal my laptop at the border ?
Beat me up because I refuse to cower to some idiot guard ?
Keep my head down ?
Accept pepper spray in my eyes because I ask why I 'm being arrested ?
Have my equipment searched then not returned ? WTF ?
! Land of the free ?
Give me a break .
You do n't even have democracy nor freedom .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just avoid the US.
Plenty of other places want your business and are willing to trade money for goods and services.
Take your tourist money elsewhere.Steal my laptop at the border?
Beat me up because I refuse to cower to some idiot guard?
Keep my head down?
Accept pepper spray in my eyes because I ask why I'm being arrested?
Have my equipment searched then not returned?WTF?
!Land of the free?
Give me a break.
You don't even have democracy nor freedom.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30419842</id>
	<title>Re:I'm entirely inclined to believe Watts</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260638400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>We visited Canada this summer and our experience with the US border patrol when we were returning home leads me to entirely believe the story as told by Watts.  I've honestly had better and more pleasant experiences with the East German border patrol in the mid-80s.</p></div><p>1. You don't have a right to cross the border.<br>2. The border guards have a right to stop you, question you, search you, all without giving you a single damn bit of information.<br>3. This is true going both ways.<br>4. Getting out of your car without being told, and demanding answers, is exactly the WRONG way to handle the situation.</p><p>I'm not saying what was done was right, because there are no facts in this case that have been published, it's all hearsay on the part of the author and the un-named witness. No video, no reports, no statements, not even a copy of the documents saying he was charged. Hell, for all we know it could be totally made up (I doubt that, however). But quite frankly he was lucky they didn't just shoot his ass dead. You do NOT leave your car without being told while being searched by authorities, especially at a border crossing. And all we have is his side of the story, but he frankly admitted to disobeying the orders of the guards.</p><p>And in my personal experience, the US guards are actually pretty decent people, it's the assholes on the Canadian side that will give you grief over nothing. And no, I'm not from the US myself, but I do travel back and forth to the states quite a bit.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We visited Canada this summer and our experience with the US border patrol when we were returning home leads me to entirely believe the story as told by Watts .
I 've honestly had better and more pleasant experiences with the East German border patrol in the mid-80s.1 .
You do n't have a right to cross the border.2 .
The border guards have a right to stop you , question you , search you , all without giving you a single damn bit of information.3 .
This is true going both ways.4 .
Getting out of your car without being told , and demanding answers , is exactly the WRONG way to handle the situation.I 'm not saying what was done was right , because there are no facts in this case that have been published , it 's all hearsay on the part of the author and the un-named witness .
No video , no reports , no statements , not even a copy of the documents saying he was charged .
Hell , for all we know it could be totally made up ( I doubt that , however ) .
But quite frankly he was lucky they did n't just shoot his ass dead .
You do NOT leave your car without being told while being searched by authorities , especially at a border crossing .
And all we have is his side of the story , but he frankly admitted to disobeying the orders of the guards.And in my personal experience , the US guards are actually pretty decent people , it 's the assholes on the Canadian side that will give you grief over nothing .
And no , I 'm not from the US myself , but I do travel back and forth to the states quite a bit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We visited Canada this summer and our experience with the US border patrol when we were returning home leads me to entirely believe the story as told by Watts.
I've honestly had better and more pleasant experiences with the East German border patrol in the mid-80s.1.
You don't have a right to cross the border.2.
The border guards have a right to stop you, question you, search you, all without giving you a single damn bit of information.3.
This is true going both ways.4.
Getting out of your car without being told, and demanding answers, is exactly the WRONG way to handle the situation.I'm not saying what was done was right, because there are no facts in this case that have been published, it's all hearsay on the part of the author and the un-named witness.
No video, no reports, no statements, not even a copy of the documents saying he was charged.
Hell, for all we know it could be totally made up (I doubt that, however).
But quite frankly he was lucky they didn't just shoot his ass dead.
You do NOT leave your car without being told while being searched by authorities, especially at a border crossing.
And all we have is his side of the story, but he frankly admitted to disobeying the orders of the guards.And in my personal experience, the US guards are actually pretty decent people, it's the assholes on the Canadian side that will give you grief over nothing.
And no, I'm not from the US myself, but I do travel back and forth to the states quite a bit.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411966</id>
	<title>Re:Let's not leap to conclusions.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260608460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If you take it as a given that a large number of border patrol officers are gigantic dicks given excessive amounts of power with little oversight, with victims who are essentially powerless, with almost no access to legal representation, then it adds up just fine with no additional information.</p></div><p>Lets pretend that 99\% of border patrol agents are evil assholes and are want to beat people for no reason 99\% of the time and 99.99\% of people crossing the boarder are completely innocent in every way possible.</p><p>Even in that scenario (which I propose that even the most anti-authority people would find a bit of a stretch) we still don't know what happened in this situation.</p><p>All we have is the victim/suspect's account of the events which is obviously going to be biased, just as if you had the boarder agent's report it would be biased towards their side.  The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you take it as a given that a large number of border patrol officers are gigantic dicks given excessive amounts of power with little oversight , with victims who are essentially powerless , with almost no access to legal representation , then it adds up just fine with no additional information.Lets pretend that 99 \ % of border patrol agents are evil assholes and are want to beat people for no reason 99 \ % of the time and 99.99 \ % of people crossing the boarder are completely innocent in every way possible.Even in that scenario ( which I propose that even the most anti-authority people would find a bit of a stretch ) we still do n't know what happened in this situation.All we have is the victim/suspect 's account of the events which is obviously going to be biased , just as if you had the boarder agent 's report it would be biased towards their side .
The truth is probably somewhere in the middle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you take it as a given that a large number of border patrol officers are gigantic dicks given excessive amounts of power with little oversight, with victims who are essentially powerless, with almost no access to legal representation, then it adds up just fine with no additional information.Lets pretend that 99\% of border patrol agents are evil assholes and are want to beat people for no reason 99\% of the time and 99.99\% of people crossing the boarder are completely innocent in every way possible.Even in that scenario (which I propose that even the most anti-authority people would find a bit of a stretch) we still don't know what happened in this situation.All we have is the victim/suspect's account of the events which is obviously going to be biased, just as if you had the boarder agent's report it would be biased towards their side.
The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409412</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411402</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260557100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If some one wanted to get across undetected, they would go to Calgary, Edmonton, etc. Buy/Rent a off-road vehicle and just drive in across some open fields. It's not hard to figure out.</p></div><p>To be slightly pedantic, depending on where you go, you may not need to go offroad at all:</p><p><a href="http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2007/10/17/border-crossing.html" title="www.cbc.ca" rel="nofollow">http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2007/10/17/border-crossing.html</a> [www.cbc.ca]</p><p>(I can't be bothered right now to find actual locations.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If some one wanted to get across undetected , they would go to Calgary , Edmonton , etc .
Buy/Rent a off-road vehicle and just drive in across some open fields .
It 's not hard to figure out.To be slightly pedantic , depending on where you go , you may not need to go offroad at all : http : //www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2007/10/17/border-crossing.html [ www.cbc.ca ] ( I ca n't be bothered right now to find actual locations .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If some one wanted to get across undetected, they would go to Calgary, Edmonton, etc.
Buy/Rent a off-road vehicle and just drive in across some open fields.
It's not hard to figure out.To be slightly pedantic, depending on where you go, you may not need to go offroad at all:http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2007/10/17/border-crossing.html [www.cbc.ca](I can't be bothered right now to find actual locations.
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410976</id>
	<title>Watts' new post-- replying to a few rumors</title>
	<author>geekotourist</author>
	<datestamp>1260552480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Peter Watts has <a href="http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=935" title="rifters.com">put up a new post on the event</a> [rifters.com]. All emphasis mine:</p><p>"I'm at the point now where I can't talk a whole lot about ongoing proceedings. I am seeing a few common misrepresentations making the rounds, though, that I'd like to set straight:</p><ol> <li>Some are concluding that, when I was "dumped across the border in shirtsleeves",  I had to walk across the Blue Water Bridge in a snowstorm without my coat.  No.  The bridge is on the US side of the border, which they had to drive me across to dump me on the other side of; and Canadian Customs was on that other side.  This was no Starlight Cruise; <b>I was not exposed to the weather unprotected for an inordinately long time.</b>  Still.  It's winter.  And they have my coat.</li><li>Others have warned me to delete my previous post, lest the bad guys seize upon it and twist it to their own dark purposes.  Having had erroneous quotes attributed to me in the past, I know this is good advice (which is why I won't be commenting in too much detail upon some of the arcane blow-by-blows of the case in question).  <b>But my lawyer vetted that post before I put it up; I stand behind it.</b></li> <li>Thanks to whoever posted the link to the Times-Herald story. I have three comments about the allegations therein.  Firstly, the story claims that I was entering the US, not leaving it: this is empirically false.  Secondly, I find it interesting that these guys characterise "pulling away" as "aggressive" behavior; I myself would regard it as a retreat.  And thirdly, I did not "choke" anyone.  I state this categorically.  <b>And having been told that cameras were in fact on site, I look forward to seeing the footage they provide.</b></li> </ol><p>That's it for the technical items. I have only two more things to say.  Firstly, I am absolutely flabbergasted by the online reaction to this story, and by the support (both moral and financial) that's inundated me over the past few hours.  I don't have a hope in hell of answering even a fraction of the incoming traffic at this point, so for the moment let me just say I'm humbled and a little bit scared.  I did not start this campaign; it actually started when I was still in jail, and had absolutely no idea what was going on.  But to the catalytic folks who orchestrated it, know that I am looking into having my vasectomy reversed so that I can sire a firstborn son and sacrifice him to you.<br>Secondly, I'm going to bed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Peter Watts has put up a new post on the event [ rifters.com ] .
All emphasis mine : " I 'm at the point now where I ca n't talk a whole lot about ongoing proceedings .
I am seeing a few common misrepresentations making the rounds , though , that I 'd like to set straight : Some are concluding that , when I was " dumped across the border in shirtsleeves " , I had to walk across the Blue Water Bridge in a snowstorm without my coat .
No. The bridge is on the US side of the border , which they had to drive me across to dump me on the other side of ; and Canadian Customs was on that other side .
This was no Starlight Cruise ; I was not exposed to the weather unprotected for an inordinately long time .
Still. It 's winter .
And they have my coat.Others have warned me to delete my previous post , lest the bad guys seize upon it and twist it to their own dark purposes .
Having had erroneous quotes attributed to me in the past , I know this is good advice ( which is why I wo n't be commenting in too much detail upon some of the arcane blow-by-blows of the case in question ) .
But my lawyer vetted that post before I put it up ; I stand behind it .
Thanks to whoever posted the link to the Times-Herald story .
I have three comments about the allegations therein .
Firstly , the story claims that I was entering the US , not leaving it : this is empirically false .
Secondly , I find it interesting that these guys characterise " pulling away " as " aggressive " behavior ; I myself would regard it as a retreat .
And thirdly , I did not " choke " anyone .
I state this categorically .
And having been told that cameras were in fact on site , I look forward to seeing the footage they provide .
That 's it for the technical items .
I have only two more things to say .
Firstly , I am absolutely flabbergasted by the online reaction to this story , and by the support ( both moral and financial ) that 's inundated me over the past few hours .
I do n't have a hope in hell of answering even a fraction of the incoming traffic at this point , so for the moment let me just say I 'm humbled and a little bit scared .
I did not start this campaign ; it actually started when I was still in jail , and had absolutely no idea what was going on .
But to the catalytic folks who orchestrated it , know that I am looking into having my vasectomy reversed so that I can sire a firstborn son and sacrifice him to you.Secondly , I 'm going to bed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Peter Watts has put up a new post on the event [rifters.com].
All emphasis mine:"I'm at the point now where I can't talk a whole lot about ongoing proceedings.
I am seeing a few common misrepresentations making the rounds, though, that I'd like to set straight: Some are concluding that, when I was "dumped across the border in shirtsleeves",  I had to walk across the Blue Water Bridge in a snowstorm without my coat.
No.  The bridge is on the US side of the border, which they had to drive me across to dump me on the other side of; and Canadian Customs was on that other side.
This was no Starlight Cruise; I was not exposed to the weather unprotected for an inordinately long time.
Still.  It's winter.
And they have my coat.Others have warned me to delete my previous post, lest the bad guys seize upon it and twist it to their own dark purposes.
Having had erroneous quotes attributed to me in the past, I know this is good advice (which is why I won't be commenting in too much detail upon some of the arcane blow-by-blows of the case in question).
But my lawyer vetted that post before I put it up; I stand behind it.
Thanks to whoever posted the link to the Times-Herald story.
I have three comments about the allegations therein.
Firstly, the story claims that I was entering the US, not leaving it: this is empirically false.
Secondly, I find it interesting that these guys characterise "pulling away" as "aggressive" behavior; I myself would regard it as a retreat.
And thirdly, I did not "choke" anyone.
I state this categorically.
And having been told that cameras were in fact on site, I look forward to seeing the footage they provide.
That's it for the technical items.
I have only two more things to say.
Firstly, I am absolutely flabbergasted by the online reaction to this story, and by the support (both moral and financial) that's inundated me over the past few hours.
I don't have a hope in hell of answering even a fraction of the incoming traffic at this point, so for the moment let me just say I'm humbled and a little bit scared.
I did not start this campaign; it actually started when I was still in jail, and had absolutely no idea what was going on.
But to the catalytic folks who orchestrated it, know that I am looking into having my vasectomy reversed so that I can sire a firstborn son and sacrifice him to you.Secondly, I'm going to bed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411028</id>
	<title>Re:If he's smart...</title>
	<author>EQ</author>
	<datestamp>1260553020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He had better hope they do NOT have tape - slashdot as usual goes flying off the left-wing "I hate authority"  end of the cliff without checking the ohter side of the story.</p><p> <a href="http://www.thetimesherald.com/article/20091211/NEWS01/91211010/1002/Science+fiction+writer+charged+after+bridge+struggle" title="thetimesherald.com">Science fiction writer charged after bridge struggle</a> [thetimesherald.com] </p><p> <em>Watts was crossing into Michigan from Point Edward when he was selected at random for a secondary Customs inspection. Watts exited his vehicle &ldquo;angrily&rdquo; and border officers began checking the black sport utility vehicle he was driving, Jones said.  Border officers ordered Watts back into the vehicle, and when he refused, officers attempted to handcuff him, Jones said. At that point, Watts began to resist and pull away from the officers &ldquo;and became aggressive toward officers,&rdquo; Jones said. Jones said a border officer used pepper spray to subdue Watts. Jones said Watts choked an officer during the struggle.</em> </p><p>Seems slashdotters do not have all the data, and the author may have been more than a bit untruthful - as well as Doctrow's quoting of him.  Next time wait for at least the oither side to give its account.  And in this case they probably have video to back it up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He had better hope they do NOT have tape - slashdot as usual goes flying off the left-wing " I hate authority " end of the cliff without checking the ohter side of the story .
Science fiction writer charged after bridge struggle [ thetimesherald.com ] Watts was crossing into Michigan from Point Edward when he was selected at random for a secondary Customs inspection .
Watts exited his vehicle    angrily    and border officers began checking the black sport utility vehicle he was driving , Jones said .
Border officers ordered Watts back into the vehicle , and when he refused , officers attempted to handcuff him , Jones said .
At that point , Watts began to resist and pull away from the officers    and became aggressive toward officers ,    Jones said .
Jones said a border officer used pepper spray to subdue Watts .
Jones said Watts choked an officer during the struggle .
Seems slashdotters do not have all the data , and the author may have been more than a bit untruthful - as well as Doctrow 's quoting of him .
Next time wait for at least the oither side to give its account .
And in this case they probably have video to back it up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He had better hope they do NOT have tape - slashdot as usual goes flying off the left-wing "I hate authority"  end of the cliff without checking the ohter side of the story.
Science fiction writer charged after bridge struggle [thetimesherald.com]  Watts was crossing into Michigan from Point Edward when he was selected at random for a secondary Customs inspection.
Watts exited his vehicle “angrily” and border officers began checking the black sport utility vehicle he was driving, Jones said.
Border officers ordered Watts back into the vehicle, and when he refused, officers attempted to handcuff him, Jones said.
At that point, Watts began to resist and pull away from the officers “and became aggressive toward officers,” Jones said.
Jones said a border officer used pepper spray to subdue Watts.
Jones said Watts choked an officer during the struggle.
Seems slashdotters do not have all the data, and the author may have been more than a bit untruthful - as well as Doctrow's quoting of him.
Next time wait for at least the oither side to give its account.
And in this case they probably have video to back it up.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410052</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30413716</id>
	<title>Re:maybe you have a chip on your shoulder</title>
	<author>oldmeddler</author>
	<datestamp>1260631560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why not give all us Slashdotters the number?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why not give all us Slashdotters the number ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why not give all us Slashdotters the number?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410316</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409994</id>
	<title>learn the law, son</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260544680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>Uttering the phrase "I won't answer your questions; I want to speak to a lawyer".</i>

</p><p>Come back when you've researched "threshold inquiry."  If police have reasonable suspicion that you're up to something criminal, they can investigate.  That includes interviewing you.  If you don't cooperate, and they still suspect you of a crime, they can arrest you while they further investigate, for a limited time, until they must charge you.

</p><p>Given that everything there is legal, if you resist it, yes, you are committing a criminal act.  And, whether you are required to present state ID varies state-to-state, but most only require that if you're driving.  If you're not driving, you're not required to carry ID.

</p><p>In MA, you are only required to ANSWER as to your identity- name and address, chiefly, if asked.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Uttering the phrase " I wo n't answer your questions ; I want to speak to a lawyer " .
Come back when you 've researched " threshold inquiry .
" If police have reasonable suspicion that you 're up to something criminal , they can investigate .
That includes interviewing you .
If you do n't cooperate , and they still suspect you of a crime , they can arrest you while they further investigate , for a limited time , until they must charge you .
Given that everything there is legal , if you resist it , yes , you are committing a criminal act .
And , whether you are required to present state ID varies state-to-state , but most only require that if you 're driving .
If you 're not driving , you 're not required to carry ID .
In MA , you are only required to ANSWER as to your identity- name and address , chiefly , if asked .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Uttering the phrase "I won't answer your questions; I want to speak to a lawyer".
Come back when you've researched "threshold inquiry.
"  If police have reasonable suspicion that you're up to something criminal, they can investigate.
That includes interviewing you.
If you don't cooperate, and they still suspect you of a crime, they can arrest you while they further investigate, for a limited time, until they must charge you.
Given that everything there is legal, if you resist it, yes, you are committing a criminal act.
And, whether you are required to present state ID varies state-to-state, but most only require that if you're driving.
If you're not driving, you're not required to carry ID.
In MA, you are only required to ANSWER as to your identity- name and address, chiefly, if asked.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409574</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411584</id>
	<title>Re:Fail: Dealing with Police 101</title>
	<author>adolf</author>
	<datestamp>1260559320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I shouldn't give permission for an officer to search me or my car. If he does it anyway, save my complaints for later.</p></div></blockquote><p>Certainly, that's how it should play out in the US:  Verbally refuse all searches.  Every.  Single.  Time.  Be polite about it, but be clear.  And if they decide to search anyway, do not do anything to physically impede them -- that fight comes later.</p><p>At a border crossing, though, you're not yet inside the US.  You have not yet succeeded in entering the country.  The Constitution need not apply.</p><p>Therefore, I think it's best to be as agreeable as possible when crossing a border.  They want to look in the trunk?  Offer to open it for them.  They want paperwork?  Produce it.  They want to ask you questions?  Answer them.  They want everyone out of the car so they can dig through it?  Let them.</p><p>IMHO, of course, but I'm very aware that my rights as an American only exist when I'm on American soil.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I should n't give permission for an officer to search me or my car .
If he does it anyway , save my complaints for later.Certainly , that 's how it should play out in the US : Verbally refuse all searches .
Every. Single .
Time. Be polite about it , but be clear .
And if they decide to search anyway , do not do anything to physically impede them -- that fight comes later.At a border crossing , though , you 're not yet inside the US .
You have not yet succeeded in entering the country .
The Constitution need not apply.Therefore , I think it 's best to be as agreeable as possible when crossing a border .
They want to look in the trunk ?
Offer to open it for them .
They want paperwork ?
Produce it .
They want to ask you questions ?
Answer them .
They want everyone out of the car so they can dig through it ?
Let them.IMHO , of course , but I 'm very aware that my rights as an American only exist when I 'm on American soil .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I shouldn't give permission for an officer to search me or my car.
If he does it anyway, save my complaints for later.Certainly, that's how it should play out in the US:  Verbally refuse all searches.
Every.  Single.
Time.  Be polite about it, but be clear.
And if they decide to search anyway, do not do anything to physically impede them -- that fight comes later.At a border crossing, though, you're not yet inside the US.
You have not yet succeeded in entering the country.
The Constitution need not apply.Therefore, I think it's best to be as agreeable as possible when crossing a border.
They want to look in the trunk?
Offer to open it for them.
They want paperwork?
Produce it.
They want to ask you questions?
Answer them.
They want everyone out of the car so they can dig through it?
Let them.IMHO, of course, but I'm very aware that my rights as an American only exist when I'm on American soil.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410532</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30420870</id>
	<title>Re:Charges...</title>
	<author>lena\_10326</author>
	<datestamp>1260647940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>When you're a teenager living in a poor neighborhood, you don't have a choice. I've had enough to know what to do. You disarm them by feeding their ego. You let them know quickly that you recognize their power and authority over you (even though they don't in theory and it is ridiculous to have to do so).</htmltext>
<tokenext>When you 're a teenager living in a poor neighborhood , you do n't have a choice .
I 've had enough to know what to do .
You disarm them by feeding their ego .
You let them know quickly that you recognize their power and authority over you ( even though they do n't in theory and it is ridiculous to have to do so ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you're a teenager living in a poor neighborhood, you don't have a choice.
I've had enough to know what to do.
You disarm them by feeding their ego.
You let them know quickly that you recognize their power and authority over you (even though they don't in theory and it is ridiculous to have to do so).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410396</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410574</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>DieByWire</author>
	<datestamp>1260549480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>As a Canadian I will never understand why the US is so eager about its boarder security with Canada.</p></div><p>Remember USAir 1549? <i>Canadian</i> geese, wise guy. You won't get one past us again.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a Canadian I will never understand why the US is so eager about its boarder security with Canada.Remember USAir 1549 ?
Canadian geese , wise guy .
You wo n't get one past us again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a Canadian I will never understand why the US is so eager about its boarder security with Canada.Remember USAir 1549?
Canadian geese, wise guy.
You won't get one past us again.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409230</id>
	<title>Charges...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260539520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, did they just forget about the other mandatory bullshit charge, resisting arrest?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , did they just forget about the other mandatory bullshit charge , resisting arrest ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, did they just forget about the other mandatory bullshit charge, resisting arrest?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30424204</id>
	<title>Re:Fail: Dealing with Police 101</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260735180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If assaulted/battered by an officer, I should passively act to shield my face, jewels, etc, but take the lumps.</p></div><p>I was completely agreeing with you up until that point, but that's where I set a limit. Any officer touches me in the slightest against my will and I'll do my darnedest to bust every joint and break every bone he used to try and beat me.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If assaulted/battered by an officer , I should passively act to shield my face , jewels , etc , but take the lumps.I was completely agreeing with you up until that point , but that 's where I set a limit .
Any officer touches me in the slightest against my will and I 'll do my darnedest to bust every joint and break every bone he used to try and beat me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If assaulted/battered by an officer, I should passively act to shield my face, jewels, etc, but take the lumps.I was completely agreeing with you up until that point, but that's where I set a limit.
Any officer touches me in the slightest against my will and I'll do my darnedest to bust every joint and break every bone he used to try and beat me.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410532</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409766</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>Mashiki</author>
	<datestamp>1260543060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The only real threat at the CAN/US boarder is people bringing handguns into Canada (where they are illegal) and selling them to Toronto street gangs.</p></div><p>Hand guns aren't illegal in Canada.  I have my restricted FAS and own a handgun.  It just means that there are more hoops for me to jump through to own it up here.  I goto the local range about 40mins from my hometown to go shooting.  Toronto is a half liberal pissing hole that things that handguns are the doom and gloom of everyone.  It was to the point where the Toronto Police Service was going to march on City Hall because of the gun ban until the mayor and city council saw common sense.  Where do the police go for firearms practice in the city when they want to ban their indoor range?</p><p>You know what the big problem is?  Is that 5 years ago there was half the problem with travelling into the US as there is now.  I really don't want to go.  I live within 1.5hr give or take a few of 4 major border checkpoints.  Why do I want to put myself through that hassle, when I can travel to other countries in the world that have easier travel and access.  Well if you want to erect the fortress and piss off your northern neighbour, that's a good way of doing it.</p><p>It's funny however, the biggest problem that Canada deals with from Americans is teenagers.  Little bastards who come over here to drink, cause havoc, smash shit up, or cause criminal offences then run back across the border.  Goto any border city and they'll tell you what kind of pissing match it is to even try to get US border guards to stop them.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only real threat at the CAN/US boarder is people bringing handguns into Canada ( where they are illegal ) and selling them to Toronto street gangs.Hand guns are n't illegal in Canada .
I have my restricted FAS and own a handgun .
It just means that there are more hoops for me to jump through to own it up here .
I goto the local range about 40mins from my hometown to go shooting .
Toronto is a half liberal pissing hole that things that handguns are the doom and gloom of everyone .
It was to the point where the Toronto Police Service was going to march on City Hall because of the gun ban until the mayor and city council saw common sense .
Where do the police go for firearms practice in the city when they want to ban their indoor range ? You know what the big problem is ?
Is that 5 years ago there was half the problem with travelling into the US as there is now .
I really do n't want to go .
I live within 1.5hr give or take a few of 4 major border checkpoints .
Why do I want to put myself through that hassle , when I can travel to other countries in the world that have easier travel and access .
Well if you want to erect the fortress and piss off your northern neighbour , that 's a good way of doing it.It 's funny however , the biggest problem that Canada deals with from Americans is teenagers .
Little bastards who come over here to drink , cause havoc , smash shit up , or cause criminal offences then run back across the border .
Goto any border city and they 'll tell you what kind of pissing match it is to even try to get US border guards to stop them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only real threat at the CAN/US boarder is people bringing handguns into Canada (where they are illegal) and selling them to Toronto street gangs.Hand guns aren't illegal in Canada.
I have my restricted FAS and own a handgun.
It just means that there are more hoops for me to jump through to own it up here.
I goto the local range about 40mins from my hometown to go shooting.
Toronto is a half liberal pissing hole that things that handguns are the doom and gloom of everyone.
It was to the point where the Toronto Police Service was going to march on City Hall because of the gun ban until the mayor and city council saw common sense.
Where do the police go for firearms practice in the city when they want to ban their indoor range?You know what the big problem is?
Is that 5 years ago there was half the problem with travelling into the US as there is now.
I really don't want to go.
I live within 1.5hr give or take a few of 4 major border checkpoints.
Why do I want to put myself through that hassle, when I can travel to other countries in the world that have easier travel and access.
Well if you want to erect the fortress and piss off your northern neighbour, that's a good way of doing it.It's funny however, the biggest problem that Canada deals with from Americans is teenagers.
Little bastards who come over here to drink, cause havoc, smash shit up, or cause criminal offences then run back across the border.
Goto any border city and they'll tell you what kind of pissing match it is to even try to get US border guards to stop them.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409412</id>
	<title>Re:Let's not leap to conclusions.</title>
	<author>vux984</author>
	<datestamp>1260540720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The Doctorow account quotes Watts saying that he got out of his car when questioned (mistake #1), then refused the order to get back in (mistake #2). No, of course that doesn't justify a beating. It just suggests we don't have the whole story.</i></p><p>Why does it suggest that?</p><p>If you take it as a given that a large number of border patrol officers are gigantic dicks given excessive amounts of power with little oversight, with victims who are essentially powerless, with almost no access to legal representation, then it adds up just fine with no additional information.</p><p>Based on my experiences crossing the US-Canada border (either way) I can take that as a given.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Doctorow account quotes Watts saying that he got out of his car when questioned ( mistake # 1 ) , then refused the order to get back in ( mistake # 2 ) .
No , of course that does n't justify a beating .
It just suggests we do n't have the whole story.Why does it suggest that ? If you take it as a given that a large number of border patrol officers are gigantic dicks given excessive amounts of power with little oversight , with victims who are essentially powerless , with almost no access to legal representation , then it adds up just fine with no additional information.Based on my experiences crossing the US-Canada border ( either way ) I can take that as a given .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Doctorow account quotes Watts saying that he got out of his car when questioned (mistake #1), then refused the order to get back in (mistake #2).
No, of course that doesn't justify a beating.
It just suggests we don't have the whole story.Why does it suggest that?If you take it as a given that a large number of border patrol officers are gigantic dicks given excessive amounts of power with little oversight, with victims who are essentially powerless, with almost no access to legal representation, then it adds up just fine with no additional information.Based on my experiences crossing the US-Canada border (either way) I can take that as a given.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409470</id>
	<title>Re:Let's not leap to conclusions.</title>
	<author>ascari</author>
	<datestamp>1260541080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Aha. Maybe he just did what he had to do: Maybe he had the trunk full of plutonium, illegal child laborers wearing suicide vests or whatever and two years for an assault charge seemed like a bargain all things considered? So his devious plan was to make these basic "mistakes" to foil the law. Seems about as plausible as the bizarre notion of a hair triggered, power abusing, violence prone border guard going off like a maniac. At least it will in a court of law - he's totally screwed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Aha .
Maybe he just did what he had to do : Maybe he had the trunk full of plutonium , illegal child laborers wearing suicide vests or whatever and two years for an assault charge seemed like a bargain all things considered ?
So his devious plan was to make these basic " mistakes " to foil the law .
Seems about as plausible as the bizarre notion of a hair triggered , power abusing , violence prone border guard going off like a maniac .
At least it will in a court of law - he 's totally screwed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Aha.
Maybe he just did what he had to do: Maybe he had the trunk full of plutonium, illegal child laborers wearing suicide vests or whatever and two years for an assault charge seemed like a bargain all things considered?
So his devious plan was to make these basic "mistakes" to foil the law.
Seems about as plausible as the bizarre notion of a hair triggered, power abusing, violence prone border guard going off like a maniac.
At least it will in a court of law - he's totally screwed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411898</id>
	<title>Re:Reason for Charge</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260650460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It probably shouldn't be too hard to convince a judge of this since, as far as I know, all border patrol stations are video taped.  I would assume they'd also have audio in there...  First thing I'd be doing, if I were truly innocent, is requesting the video for the time in question.</p></div><p>Don't be surprised if there was unfortunate equipment malfunction, or the dog ate the tape. The probability that the tape got lost is proportional to how bad the police or border patrol look on tape.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It probably should n't be too hard to convince a judge of this since , as far as I know , all border patrol stations are video taped .
I would assume they 'd also have audio in there... First thing I 'd be doing , if I were truly innocent , is requesting the video for the time in question.Do n't be surprised if there was unfortunate equipment malfunction , or the dog ate the tape .
The probability that the tape got lost is proportional to how bad the police or border patrol look on tape .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It probably shouldn't be too hard to convince a judge of this since, as far as I know, all border patrol stations are video taped.
I would assume they'd also have audio in there...  First thing I'd be doing, if I were truly innocent, is requesting the video for the time in question.Don't be surprised if there was unfortunate equipment malfunction, or the dog ate the tape.
The probability that the tape got lost is proportional to how bad the police or border patrol look on tape.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30458400</id>
	<title>Re:maybe you have a chip on your shoulder</title>
	<author>PastaLover</author>
	<datestamp>1259686020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Given that customs officers are trained to get a vibe off people (by asking questions about your stay etc- they don't give a rat's ass what you say, it's HOW you say it.) Given out righteous some slashdotters get, I can imagine them giving a customs agent a real bad vibe. Just look at any of the threads about laptop confiscations (I agree, those are very evil and I feel they should be illegal.) There's some serious hatred here for customs folks.</p> </div><p>This amounts to the "she was asking for it wearing that dress" argument. We agree that one is specious, why don't we take into consideration is equally BS.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Given that customs officers are trained to get a vibe off people ( by asking questions about your stay etc- they do n't give a rat 's ass what you say , it 's HOW you say it .
) Given out righteous some slashdotters get , I can imagine them giving a customs agent a real bad vibe .
Just look at any of the threads about laptop confiscations ( I agree , those are very evil and I feel they should be illegal .
) There 's some serious hatred here for customs folks .
This amounts to the " she was asking for it wearing that dress " argument .
We agree that one is specious , why do n't we take into consideration is equally BS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Given that customs officers are trained to get a vibe off people (by asking questions about your stay etc- they don't give a rat's ass what you say, it's HOW you say it.
) Given out righteous some slashdotters get, I can imagine them giving a customs agent a real bad vibe.
Just look at any of the threads about laptop confiscations (I agree, those are very evil and I feel they should be illegal.
) There's some serious hatred here for customs folks.
This amounts to the "she was asking for it wearing that dress" argument.
We agree that one is specious, why don't we take into consideration is equally BS.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410316</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410892</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>misexistentialist</author>
	<datestamp>1260552000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The Canadian police had him under surveillance for 2 years, and issued an alert when he left. When security still depends on random border stops it's not being done right. (Though maybe the FBI wanted him to get through and meet his contacts, which are probably still waiting for the next delivery after the border agents unexpectedly proved effective)</htmltext>
<tokenext>The Canadian police had him under surveillance for 2 years , and issued an alert when he left .
When security still depends on random border stops it 's not being done right .
( Though maybe the FBI wanted him to get through and meet his contacts , which are probably still waiting for the next delivery after the border agents unexpectedly proved effective )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Canadian police had him under surveillance for 2 years, and issued an alert when he left.
When security still depends on random border stops it's not being done right.
(Though maybe the FBI wanted him to get through and meet his contacts, which are probably still waiting for the next delivery after the border agents unexpectedly proved effective)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409682</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410758</id>
	<title>Border Crossing</title>
	<author>redkingca</author>
	<datestamp>1260551040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>A lot of these posts don't seem to get the fact that he was leaving the US to enter Canada. And US Customs were stopping Canadian vehicles to search them. This is very bizzare behavior by US Customs, if they needed someone stopped normal policy would be to Inform Canada Customs to stop them before they "offically" enter Canada and send them back to US Customs. So what was US Customs up to that the "US" did not want "Canada" to know about?</htmltext>
<tokenext>A lot of these posts do n't seem to get the fact that he was leaving the US to enter Canada .
And US Customs were stopping Canadian vehicles to search them .
This is very bizzare behavior by US Customs , if they needed someone stopped normal policy would be to Inform Canada Customs to stop them before they " offically " enter Canada and send them back to US Customs .
So what was US Customs up to that the " US " did not want " Canada " to know about ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A lot of these posts don't seem to get the fact that he was leaving the US to enter Canada.
And US Customs were stopping Canadian vehicles to search them.
This is very bizzare behavior by US Customs, if they needed someone stopped normal policy would be to Inform Canada Customs to stop them before they "offically" enter Canada and send them back to US Customs.
So what was US Customs up to that the "US" did not want "Canada" to know about?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30412076</id>
	<title>Re:This guy writes fiction for a living</title>
	<author>mjwx</author>
	<datestamp>1260610620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>PS - Government police forces are supported by taxes. Quit voting for the guys who want to raise your taxes if you don't want government thugs to beat you up.</p></div></blockquote><p>

Logical fallacy number 1. Government forces aren't paid by taxes, they are paid by government expenses which are supported by taxes, levies, government royalties and borrowing. So a there is no direct correlation between taxes and police forces.<br> <br>

Logical fallacy number 2. Underpaid police forces will not be corrupt. This is wrong, if given the opportunity the police cannot be trusted not to line their own pockets. The solution to this is to limit police powers and separate enforcement, judgement and punishment into independent organisations. This is also why most nations have an anti-corruption organisation/structure such as Royal Commissions here in Australia.<br> <br>

So to correct you:<br>
Quit voting for the guys who make secret treaties and laws that give additional power to police forces if you don't want government thugs to beat you up. Not voting for people who get you into a heap of national debt while your economy is strong also helps a lot.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>PS - Government police forces are supported by taxes .
Quit voting for the guys who want to raise your taxes if you do n't want government thugs to beat you up .
Logical fallacy number 1 .
Government forces are n't paid by taxes , they are paid by government expenses which are supported by taxes , levies , government royalties and borrowing .
So a there is no direct correlation between taxes and police forces .
Logical fallacy number 2 .
Underpaid police forces will not be corrupt .
This is wrong , if given the opportunity the police can not be trusted not to line their own pockets .
The solution to this is to limit police powers and separate enforcement , judgement and punishment into independent organisations .
This is also why most nations have an anti-corruption organisation/structure such as Royal Commissions here in Australia .
So to correct you : Quit voting for the guys who make secret treaties and laws that give additional power to police forces if you do n't want government thugs to beat you up .
Not voting for people who get you into a heap of national debt while your economy is strong also helps a lot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>PS - Government police forces are supported by taxes.
Quit voting for the guys who want to raise your taxes if you don't want government thugs to beat you up.
Logical fallacy number 1.
Government forces aren't paid by taxes, they are paid by government expenses which are supported by taxes, levies, government royalties and borrowing.
So a there is no direct correlation between taxes and police forces.
Logical fallacy number 2.
Underpaid police forces will not be corrupt.
This is wrong, if given the opportunity the police cannot be trusted not to line their own pockets.
The solution to this is to limit police powers and separate enforcement, judgement and punishment into independent organisations.
This is also why most nations have an anti-corruption organisation/structure such as Royal Commissions here in Australia.
So to correct you:
Quit voting for the guys who make secret treaties and laws that give additional power to police forces if you don't want government thugs to beat you up.
Not voting for people who get you into a heap of national debt while your economy is strong also helps a lot.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409380</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411194</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>MakinBacon</author>
	<datestamp>1260555240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Now they are giving a middle aged white guy a hard time? Please, this security theatre has gone too far.</p></div><p>I don't know how you guys run things up there in Canada, but down here we look down upon racial profiling.  Granted, that doesn't mean it never happens, but I feel that we should treat white people just as harshly as we do Arabs, Hispanics and every other ethnic group that crosses the nation.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Now they are giving a middle aged white guy a hard time ?
Please , this security theatre has gone too far.I do n't know how you guys run things up there in Canada , but down here we look down upon racial profiling .
Granted , that does n't mean it never happens , but I feel that we should treat white people just as harshly as we do Arabs , Hispanics and every other ethnic group that crosses the nation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now they are giving a middle aged white guy a hard time?
Please, this security theatre has gone too far.I don't know how you guys run things up there in Canada, but down here we look down upon racial profiling.
Granted, that doesn't mean it never happens, but I feel that we should treat white people just as harshly as we do Arabs, Hispanics and every other ethnic group that crosses the nation.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30423382</id>
	<title>Re:Charges...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260727440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Other forms of "resisting arrest":</p><ul><li>Not falling down fast enough after being struck or tasered.</li><li>Being pushed by an officer into another officer.</li><li>Placing or tapping your index finger ever so gently on the officer's shoulder.</li><li>Cursing at the officer so that the officer's feelings are hurt.</li><li>Having an epileptic seizure or heart attack during arrest.</li><li>Not bending like a blade of grass when the officer attempts to wrap your limbs into a pretzel shape.</li><li>Not knowing the language or not understanding the officers commands.</li><li>Failing to produce a state issued ID card.</li><li>Uttering the phrase "I won't answer your questions; I want to speak to a lawyer".</li></ul></div><p>speaking over your shoulder to ask your 10 yr old son to listen to his mother and brother, in handcuffs, and continuing to walk with the officers.  true story.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Other forms of " resisting arrest " : Not falling down fast enough after being struck or tasered.Being pushed by an officer into another officer.Placing or tapping your index finger ever so gently on the officer 's shoulder.Cursing at the officer so that the officer 's feelings are hurt.Having an epileptic seizure or heart attack during arrest.Not bending like a blade of grass when the officer attempts to wrap your limbs into a pretzel shape.Not knowing the language or not understanding the officers commands.Failing to produce a state issued ID card.Uttering the phrase " I wo n't answer your questions ; I want to speak to a lawyer " .speaking over your shoulder to ask your 10 yr old son to listen to his mother and brother , in handcuffs , and continuing to walk with the officers .
true story .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Other forms of "resisting arrest":Not falling down fast enough after being struck or tasered.Being pushed by an officer into another officer.Placing or tapping your index finger ever so gently on the officer's shoulder.Cursing at the officer so that the officer's feelings are hurt.Having an epileptic seizure or heart attack during arrest.Not bending like a blade of grass when the officer attempts to wrap your limbs into a pretzel shape.Not knowing the language or not understanding the officers commands.Failing to produce a state issued ID card.Uttering the phrase "I won't answer your questions; I want to speak to a lawyer".speaking over your shoulder to ask your 10 yr old son to listen to his mother and brother, in handcuffs, and continuing to walk with the officers.
true story.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409574</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410686</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>thebigmacd</author>
	<datestamp>1260550440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You think it's any different going the other way? American border guards have been known to refuse entry on admission of simply having been arrested.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You think it 's any different going the other way ?
American border guards have been known to refuse entry on admission of simply having been arrested .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You think it's any different going the other way?
American border guards have been known to refuse entry on admission of simply having been arrested.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410238</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409932</id>
	<title>Not worth it.</title>
	<author>mauriceh</author>
	<datestamp>1260544200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am a Canadian citizen living in Canada.<br>I have been entering and leaving the USA for pretty much my whole life.<br>I am 53.<br>A few years ago I stopped going to the USA, except when absolutely necessary.</p><p>One of the most dangerous places I can think of is a US border crossing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am a Canadian citizen living in Canada.I have been entering and leaving the USA for pretty much my whole life.I am 53.A few years ago I stopped going to the USA , except when absolutely necessary.One of the most dangerous places I can think of is a US border crossing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am a Canadian citizen living in Canada.I have been entering and leaving the USA for pretty much my whole life.I am 53.A few years ago I stopped going to the USA, except when absolutely necessary.One of the most dangerous places I can think of is a US border crossing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410238</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>NitroWolf</author>
	<datestamp>1260546900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Don't forget that Canada will prohibit a US citizen from entering if they have a DUI on their record as well. Hosers.</p></div><p>Not just a DUI, any criminal record... even if it was 20 years ago and when you were a minor.  No I'm not joking.  My brother got denied entry into Canada at one point for that exact reason.  He made the mistake of answering yes to "Have you ever been convicted of a crime?" question.  Of course, he should have answered no since it was a MIP charge from the early 90's.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't forget that Canada will prohibit a US citizen from entering if they have a DUI on their record as well .
Hosers.Not just a DUI , any criminal record... even if it was 20 years ago and when you were a minor .
No I 'm not joking .
My brother got denied entry into Canada at one point for that exact reason .
He made the mistake of answering yes to " Have you ever been convicted of a crime ?
" question .
Of course , he should have answered no since it was a MIP charge from the early 90 's .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't forget that Canada will prohibit a US citizen from entering if they have a DUI on their record as well.
Hosers.Not just a DUI, any criminal record... even if it was 20 years ago and when you were a minor.
No I'm not joking.
My brother got denied entry into Canada at one point for that exact reason.
He made the mistake of answering yes to "Have you ever been convicted of a crime?
" question.
Of course, he should have answered no since it was a MIP charge from the early 90's.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410040</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409808</id>
	<title>From the police report</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260543300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.thetimesherald.com/article/20091211/NEWS01/91211010/1002/Science+fiction+writer+charged+after+bridge+struggle" title="thetimesherald.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.thetimesherald.com/article/20091211/NEWS01/91211010/1002/Science+fiction+writer+charged+after+bridge+struggle</a> [thetimesherald.com]</p><p>"Jones said Watts was crossing into Michigan from Point Edward when he was selected at random for a secondary Customs inspection. Watts exited his vehicle "angrily" and border officers began checking the black sport utility vehicle he was driving, Jones said.</p><p>Border officers ordered Watts back into the vehicle, and when he refused, officers attempted to handcuff him, Jones said. At that point, Watts began to resist and pull away from the officers "and became aggressive toward officers," Jones said.</p><p>Jones said a border officer used pepper spray to subdue Watts. Jones said Watts "choked" an officer during the struggle. "</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.thetimesherald.com/article/20091211/NEWS01/91211010/1002/Science + fiction + writer + charged + after + bridge + struggle [ thetimesherald.com ] " Jones said Watts was crossing into Michigan from Point Edward when he was selected at random for a secondary Customs inspection .
Watts exited his vehicle " angrily " and border officers began checking the black sport utility vehicle he was driving , Jones said.Border officers ordered Watts back into the vehicle , and when he refused , officers attempted to handcuff him , Jones said .
At that point , Watts began to resist and pull away from the officers " and became aggressive toward officers , " Jones said.Jones said a border officer used pepper spray to subdue Watts .
Jones said Watts " choked " an officer during the struggle .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.thetimesherald.com/article/20091211/NEWS01/91211010/1002/Science+fiction+writer+charged+after+bridge+struggle [thetimesherald.com]"Jones said Watts was crossing into Michigan from Point Edward when he was selected at random for a secondary Customs inspection.
Watts exited his vehicle "angrily" and border officers began checking the black sport utility vehicle he was driving, Jones said.Border officers ordered Watts back into the vehicle, and when he refused, officers attempted to handcuff him, Jones said.
At that point, Watts began to resist and pull away from the officers "and became aggressive toward officers," Jones said.Jones said a border officer used pepper spray to subdue Watts.
Jones said Watts "choked" an officer during the struggle.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30431684</id>
	<title>Re:I'm entirely inclined to believe Watts</title>
	<author>BoothbyTCD</author>
	<datestamp>1260809340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One hundred percent this. My wife is a Canadian citizen and we used to go see her parents in Toronto by bus, but after our last trip back through the US border on our way home we have agreed that we will never cross by land ever again. We will just have to save up a bit more and take the plane, where for some reason the border guards are somewhat better behaved, maybe because they are dealing with people who can afford plane tickets. They are simply animals at the land crossings though. Sadistic animals. I have more then once watched them pretty much abusing old people they knew spoke very limited/no English simply because they were brown. The Canadian agents, by contrast, have been almost unfailingly polite to me, even the one trip I realized that I had left my passport 12 hours away in NYC. I showed the guard the ring I was planning to propose with instead<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One hundred percent this .
My wife is a Canadian citizen and we used to go see her parents in Toronto by bus , but after our last trip back through the US border on our way home we have agreed that we will never cross by land ever again .
We will just have to save up a bit more and take the plane , where for some reason the border guards are somewhat better behaved , maybe because they are dealing with people who can afford plane tickets .
They are simply animals at the land crossings though .
Sadistic animals .
I have more then once watched them pretty much abusing old people they knew spoke very limited/no English simply because they were brown .
The Canadian agents , by contrast , have been almost unfailingly polite to me , even the one trip I realized that I had left my passport 12 hours away in NYC .
I showed the guard the ring I was planning to propose with instead : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One hundred percent this.
My wife is a Canadian citizen and we used to go see her parents in Toronto by bus, but after our last trip back through the US border on our way home we have agreed that we will never cross by land ever again.
We will just have to save up a bit more and take the plane, where for some reason the border guards are somewhat better behaved, maybe because they are dealing with people who can afford plane tickets.
They are simply animals at the land crossings though.
Sadistic animals.
I have more then once watched them pretty much abusing old people they knew spoke very limited/no English simply because they were brown.
The Canadian agents, by contrast, have been almost unfailingly polite to me, even the one trip I realized that I had left my passport 12 hours away in NYC.
I showed the guard the ring I was planning to propose with instead :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409878</id>
	<title>For the paranoid...</title>
	<author>ddxexex</author>
	<datestamp>1260543840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>In the Halifax airport there's a preclearance for crossing the US border. Yes, they still do all of the annoying US border crossing stuff, but they are much much friendlier about it than at other crossings I've been to. Yes, It only really helps if your flying, but it takes so much stress out of flying to the US.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the Halifax airport there 's a preclearance for crossing the US border .
Yes , they still do all of the annoying US border crossing stuff , but they are much much friendlier about it than at other crossings I 've been to .
Yes , It only really helps if your flying , but it takes so much stress out of flying to the US .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the Halifax airport there's a preclearance for crossing the US border.
Yes, they still do all of the annoying US border crossing stuff, but they are much much friendlier about it than at other crossings I've been to.
Yes, It only really helps if your flying, but it takes so much stress out of flying to the US.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30424728</id>
	<title>Re:If he's smart...</title>
	<author>rastos1</author>
	<datestamp>1260696480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Watts began to resist and pull away from the officers "and became aggressive toward officers," Jones said</p></div></blockquote><p>

Excuse me, English is not my first language. How can you become <b>aggressive towards</b> someone <b>by pulling away</b> from him<b>?</b></p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Watts began to resist and pull away from the officers " and became aggressive toward officers , " Jones said Excuse me , English is not my first language .
How can you become aggressive towards someone by pulling away from him ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Watts began to resist and pull away from the officers "and became aggressive toward officers," Jones said

Excuse me, English is not my first language.
How can you become aggressive towards someone by pulling away from him?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411028</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411680</id>
	<title>Re:Always the same story...</title>
	<author>MiniMike</author>
	<datestamp>1260560820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>First we need to hear the side of the border guards</p></div><p>Well, we heard Watts' side on Slashdot.  Who wants to volunteer to check out the border guards story on MySpace?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>First we need to hear the side of the border guardsWell , we heard Watts ' side on Slashdot .
Who wants to volunteer to check out the border guards story on MySpace ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First we need to hear the side of the border guardsWell, we heard Watts' side on Slashdot.
Who wants to volunteer to check out the border guards story on MySpace?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409372</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409368</id>
	<title>Give us your poor, your tired,</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260540420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>your huddled masses longing to be free.<br>
But you SF authors better stay the fuck out!</htmltext>
<tokenext>your huddled masses longing to be free .
But you SF authors better stay the fuck out !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>your huddled masses longing to be free.
But you SF authors better stay the fuck out!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409616</id>
	<title>Bad for Tourism</title>
	<author>fyoder</author>
	<datestamp>1260542160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Even under the Obama administration the message to foreigners still seems to be stay away or risk getting beaten and generally abused.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Even under the Obama administration the message to foreigners still seems to be stay away or risk getting beaten and generally abused .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even under the Obama administration the message to foreigners still seems to be stay away or risk getting beaten and generally abused.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30414620</id>
	<title>wait until the evidence is available.</title>
	<author>Chicken04GTO</author>
	<datestamp>1260638400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Unless any of you were there and saw what happened or a video is released of the entire event its nothing but speculation.  I like how immediately everyone jumps on the oppressive fascists bandwagon.  Police officers dont run around randomly beating the shit out of people for no reason in front of numerous witnesses.  Thats a bad idea.  Unlike you axe grinding authority hating anarchists, ill wait to make judgment until all the facts come out.

See in this country, we examine the evidence before condemning people.  Oh wait, unless cops do something we dont like, then who needs proof?  Theyre all rotten bully's.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless any of you were there and saw what happened or a video is released of the entire event its nothing but speculation .
I like how immediately everyone jumps on the oppressive fascists bandwagon .
Police officers dont run around randomly beating the shit out of people for no reason in front of numerous witnesses .
Thats a bad idea .
Unlike you axe grinding authority hating anarchists , ill wait to make judgment until all the facts come out .
See in this country , we examine the evidence before condemning people .
Oh wait , unless cops do something we dont like , then who needs proof ?
Theyre all rotten bully 's .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unless any of you were there and saw what happened or a video is released of the entire event its nothing but speculation.
I like how immediately everyone jumps on the oppressive fascists bandwagon.
Police officers dont run around randomly beating the shit out of people for no reason in front of numerous witnesses.
Thats a bad idea.
Unlike you axe grinding authority hating anarchists, ill wait to make judgment until all the facts come out.
See in this country, we examine the evidence before condemning people.
Oh wait, unless cops do something we dont like, then who needs proof?
Theyre all rotten bully's.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410934</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>Stoutlimb</author>
	<datestamp>1260552240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a Canadian who's had some relatives try to immigrate to Canada, I don't think thats true.  I challenge you to back up that accusation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a Canadian who 's had some relatives try to immigrate to Canada , I do n't think thats true .
I challenge you to back up that accusation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a Canadian who's had some relatives try to immigrate to Canada, I don't think thats true.
I challenge you to back up that accusation.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410118</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409214</id>
	<title>Wow,</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260539400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>They should give the border patrol the Nobel Peace Prize for keeping America safe.</htmltext>
<tokenext>They should give the border patrol the Nobel Peace Prize for keeping America safe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They should give the border patrol the Nobel Peace Prize for keeping America safe.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410066</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260545160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Have you forgotten what border the 911 hijackers crossed before they blew up downtown NY City?  And it's</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Have you forgotten what border the 911 hijackers crossed before they blew up downtown NY City ?
And it 's</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have you forgotten what border the 911 hijackers crossed before they blew up downtown NY City?
And it's</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410958</id>
	<title>This doesn't surprise me in the least</title>
	<author>quax</author>
	<datestamp>1260552420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While it depends on the officer I several times experienced  some really nasty border guards when crossing at the Windsor Detroit checkpoint.  Some of them behave far worse than the second runners up that I encountered i.e. East German and Soviet border guards.  The later at least didn't display the kind of Rambo cop mentality that some of these US goons do.  Don't know where they find these people.</p><p>To me the way law enforcement officials and government representatives treat the public says a lot about the level of civil society and the freedoms you enjoy. Doesn't inspire confidence.  If it wasn't for my mother in law living in Ohio I'd be more than happy to not venture down south any more.  I hope once she retires I can convince her to move up here.  I hate this border.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While it depends on the officer I several times experienced some really nasty border guards when crossing at the Windsor Detroit checkpoint .
Some of them behave far worse than the second runners up that I encountered i.e .
East German and Soviet border guards .
The later at least did n't display the kind of Rambo cop mentality that some of these US goons do .
Do n't know where they find these people.To me the way law enforcement officials and government representatives treat the public says a lot about the level of civil society and the freedoms you enjoy .
Does n't inspire confidence .
If it was n't for my mother in law living in Ohio I 'd be more than happy to not venture down south any more .
I hope once she retires I can convince her to move up here .
I hate this border .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While it depends on the officer I several times experienced  some really nasty border guards when crossing at the Windsor Detroit checkpoint.
Some of them behave far worse than the second runners up that I encountered i.e.
East German and Soviet border guards.
The later at least didn't display the kind of Rambo cop mentality that some of these US goons do.
Don't know where they find these people.To me the way law enforcement officials and government representatives treat the public says a lot about the level of civil society and the freedoms you enjoy.
Doesn't inspire confidence.
If it wasn't for my mother in law living in Ohio I'd be more than happy to not venture down south any more.
I hope once she retires I can convince her to move up here.
I hate this border.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30412276</id>
	<title>Re:Fail: Dealing with Police 101</title>
	<author>jschrod</author>
	<datestamp>1260615300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Do you realize that your list is the perfect example why people from more civilized countries think that the US society gives its police too much power to harrass their citizens?
<p>
Your list with recommended behaviour itself is almost identical to the list we got 20+ years ago when we visited former socialistic Eastern Germany or other USSR-related countries. That's not ironic, that's sad.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you realize that your list is the perfect example why people from more civilized countries think that the US society gives its police too much power to harrass their citizens ?
Your list with recommended behaviour itself is almost identical to the list we got 20 + years ago when we visited former socialistic Eastern Germany or other USSR-related countries .
That 's not ironic , that 's sad .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you realize that your list is the perfect example why people from more civilized countries think that the US society gives its police too much power to harrass their citizens?
Your list with recommended behaviour itself is almost identical to the list we got 20+ years ago when we visited former socialistic Eastern Germany or other USSR-related countries.
That's not ironic, that's sad.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410532</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411316</id>
	<title>Free pony instead of a beating...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260556260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Peter should have came in from the south instead of the north......they would have given him a free pony, free college, and free healthcare for him and his family.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Peter should have came in from the south instead of the north......they would have given him a free pony , free college , and free healthcare for him and his family .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Peter should have came in from the south instead of the north......they would have given him a free pony, free college, and free healthcare for him and his family.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410532</id>
	<title>Fail: Dealing with Police 101</title>
	<author>cmholm</author>
	<datestamp>1260549180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First up, I've witnessed and had described by retired police officers occasions when an officer elected to go medieval on a citizen who was being only mildly disagreeable, or didn't immediately understand what the officer wanted, so I can well imagine Mr. Watts was unreasonably roughed up, and hit with trumped up charges.</p><p>That said, based on the information in TFA's links, as a practical, like-to-avoid-getting-my-ass-handed-to-me matter, I might question Mr. Watts' evident lack of "street smarts". I'm just a mid-aged, college-educated white boy who for the most part stayed out of trouble. But, even I have heard and read enough to know that:</p><ul><li>In a police-controlled traffic stop or checkpoint, I should stay in my car until asked to exit.</li><li>I should not act to touch an officer.</li><li>I should not give an officer lip.</li><li>I shouldn't get into small talk with an officer. Answers to questions, if I say anything at all, should be short. Admit nothing, deny nothing.</li><li>I shouldn't give permission for an officer to search me or my car. If he does it anyway, save my complaints for later.</li><li>If assaulted/battered by an officer, I should passively act to shield my face, jewels, etc, but take the lumps.</li><li>I have few, if any, rights at an international border crossing (besides the intra-EU borders), and should be mentally prepared for BS.</li></ul><p>Unfortunately, Mr. Watts may not have had any previous experiences that would prep him for the possibility that getting out of the queue at a border crossing wasn't the best plan. I hope his only lasting consequences are a bruised body and ego.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First up , I 've witnessed and had described by retired police officers occasions when an officer elected to go medieval on a citizen who was being only mildly disagreeable , or did n't immediately understand what the officer wanted , so I can well imagine Mr. Watts was unreasonably roughed up , and hit with trumped up charges.That said , based on the information in TFA 's links , as a practical , like-to-avoid-getting-my-ass-handed-to-me matter , I might question Mr. Watts ' evident lack of " street smarts " .
I 'm just a mid-aged , college-educated white boy who for the most part stayed out of trouble .
But , even I have heard and read enough to know that : In a police-controlled traffic stop or checkpoint , I should stay in my car until asked to exit.I should not act to touch an officer.I should not give an officer lip.I should n't get into small talk with an officer .
Answers to questions , if I say anything at all , should be short .
Admit nothing , deny nothing.I should n't give permission for an officer to search me or my car .
If he does it anyway , save my complaints for later.If assaulted/battered by an officer , I should passively act to shield my face , jewels , etc , but take the lumps.I have few , if any , rights at an international border crossing ( besides the intra-EU borders ) , and should be mentally prepared for BS.Unfortunately , Mr. Watts may not have had any previous experiences that would prep him for the possibility that getting out of the queue at a border crossing was n't the best plan .
I hope his only lasting consequences are a bruised body and ego .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First up, I've witnessed and had described by retired police officers occasions when an officer elected to go medieval on a citizen who was being only mildly disagreeable, or didn't immediately understand what the officer wanted, so I can well imagine Mr. Watts was unreasonably roughed up, and hit with trumped up charges.That said, based on the information in TFA's links, as a practical, like-to-avoid-getting-my-ass-handed-to-me matter, I might question Mr. Watts' evident lack of "street smarts".
I'm just a mid-aged, college-educated white boy who for the most part stayed out of trouble.
But, even I have heard and read enough to know that:In a police-controlled traffic stop or checkpoint, I should stay in my car until asked to exit.I should not act to touch an officer.I should not give an officer lip.I shouldn't get into small talk with an officer.
Answers to questions, if I say anything at all, should be short.
Admit nothing, deny nothing.I shouldn't give permission for an officer to search me or my car.
If he does it anyway, save my complaints for later.If assaulted/battered by an officer, I should passively act to shield my face, jewels, etc, but take the lumps.I have few, if any, rights at an international border crossing (besides the intra-EU borders), and should be mentally prepared for BS.Unfortunately, Mr. Watts may not have had any previous experiences that would prep him for the possibility that getting out of the queue at a border crossing wasn't the best plan.
I hope his only lasting consequences are a bruised body and ego.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30413528</id>
	<title>Good for the border Patrol</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260629940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I live in Port Huron.  I frequently cross the bridge to Canada.  These border guards have one of the toughest jobs around.  The first thing we learn from our parents or others before crossing the bridge is that when you cross you shut up, answer their questions (no matter how strange they seem), and you will get out of there without a problem.  They have to deal with tons of assholes (like the one in the story it seems) so as long as you are polite and answer correctly they are going to let you through.  These guys have to make sure that tens of thousands of cars get into the United States safely everyday, so they don't put up with anything and shouldn't have to.  Good for them for doing their job.</p><p>Note:  I've been pulled over for a search many times and even then as long as you cooperate and treat the officers with respect it causes a very short delay at most.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I live in Port Huron .
I frequently cross the bridge to Canada .
These border guards have one of the toughest jobs around .
The first thing we learn from our parents or others before crossing the bridge is that when you cross you shut up , answer their questions ( no matter how strange they seem ) , and you will get out of there without a problem .
They have to deal with tons of assholes ( like the one in the story it seems ) so as long as you are polite and answer correctly they are going to let you through .
These guys have to make sure that tens of thousands of cars get into the United States safely everyday , so they do n't put up with anything and should n't have to .
Good for them for doing their job.Note : I 've been pulled over for a search many times and even then as long as you cooperate and treat the officers with respect it causes a very short delay at most .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I live in Port Huron.
I frequently cross the bridge to Canada.
These border guards have one of the toughest jobs around.
The first thing we learn from our parents or others before crossing the bridge is that when you cross you shut up, answer their questions (no matter how strange they seem), and you will get out of there without a problem.
They have to deal with tons of assholes (like the one in the story it seems) so as long as you are polite and answer correctly they are going to let you through.
These guys have to make sure that tens of thousands of cars get into the United States safely everyday, so they don't put up with anything and shouldn't have to.
Good for them for doing their job.Note:  I've been pulled over for a search many times and even then as long as you cooperate and treat the officers with respect it causes a very short delay at most.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409692</id>
	<title>Re:Always the same story...</title>
	<author>MickyTheIdiot</author>
	<datestamp>1260542520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Listen... I am willing to give officers the benefit of the doubt... if there is doubt.  The problem is I have seen too many times when officers are given the benefit of the doubt when there is no doubt.  If cops assault someone without provocation or they use what is clearly excessive force they should be punished for it.</p><p>If someone escalates a situation with a cop, it is supposed to be law enforcement's job to de-escalate it.  If things get out of hand momentarily that's one thing, but if law enforcement escalates the situation themselves they aren't any better than a criminal in that situation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Listen... I am willing to give officers the benefit of the doubt... if there is doubt .
The problem is I have seen too many times when officers are given the benefit of the doubt when there is no doubt .
If cops assault someone without provocation or they use what is clearly excessive force they should be punished for it.If someone escalates a situation with a cop , it is supposed to be law enforcement 's job to de-escalate it .
If things get out of hand momentarily that 's one thing , but if law enforcement escalates the situation themselves they are n't any better than a criminal in that situation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Listen... I am willing to give officers the benefit of the doubt... if there is doubt.
The problem is I have seen too many times when officers are given the benefit of the doubt when there is no doubt.
If cops assault someone without provocation or they use what is clearly excessive force they should be punished for it.If someone escalates a situation with a cop, it is supposed to be law enforcement's job to de-escalate it.
If things get out of hand momentarily that's one thing, but if law enforcement escalates the situation themselves they aren't any better than a criminal in that situation.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409372</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409408</id>
	<title>Re:Let's not leap to conclusions.</title>
	<author>Samgilljoy</author>
	<datestamp>1260540720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>True, it's not like a car full of middle-aged, affluent men have never griefed some guy with a lousy job, because they felt entitled to less inconvenience.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>True , it 's not like a car full of middle-aged , affluent men have never griefed some guy with a lousy job , because they felt entitled to less inconvenience .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>True, it's not like a car full of middle-aged, affluent men have never griefed some guy with a lousy job, because they felt entitled to less inconvenience.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30415838</id>
	<title>Re:Fail: Dealing with Police 101</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260646260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Few if any?  *YOU* have no rights.  And given that you're so willing to give them up--I'm not convinced you deserve any.</p><p>Repeat:  If your reaction to violence is to shield your face and hope you don't die--you have no rights.  Your next of kin *may* have rights to punitive damages, but you've got nothing.</p><p>No matter where you are, no matter what the law says--a person has a positive, affirmative right to protect themselves from immediate threat of harm.  Not god given, not law given.  Inalienable.  And not just to defend yourself--but to actively engage in that whole other list enumerated in the first ten things in the bill of rights.  Which for some of you idiots out there, is explicitly indicated as an incomplete list.  You know--they were already assumed in the original constitution, but some people wanted reassurances because politicians and the armed thugs they employee are incapable of behaving reasonably.</p><p>You don't--because you refuse to utilize it.  If someone swings at you, by all means dodge and ask them to stop.  If they don't stop--kill them.  I promise, myself and many other Americans will vote NOT GUILTY regardless of the law if we're on your jury--although you may be held in contempt of court for having to get the full truth out.  I'd hope you would do the same, but given you're too cowardly to defend yourself or your own family--I'm fairly certain I can't depend on you to protect me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Few if any ?
* YOU * have no rights .
And given that you 're so willing to give them up--I 'm not convinced you deserve any.Repeat : If your reaction to violence is to shield your face and hope you do n't die--you have no rights .
Your next of kin * may * have rights to punitive damages , but you 've got nothing.No matter where you are , no matter what the law says--a person has a positive , affirmative right to protect themselves from immediate threat of harm .
Not god given , not law given .
Inalienable. And not just to defend yourself--but to actively engage in that whole other list enumerated in the first ten things in the bill of rights .
Which for some of you idiots out there , is explicitly indicated as an incomplete list .
You know--they were already assumed in the original constitution , but some people wanted reassurances because politicians and the armed thugs they employee are incapable of behaving reasonably.You do n't--because you refuse to utilize it .
If someone swings at you , by all means dodge and ask them to stop .
If they do n't stop--kill them .
I promise , myself and many other Americans will vote NOT GUILTY regardless of the law if we 're on your jury--although you may be held in contempt of court for having to get the full truth out .
I 'd hope you would do the same , but given you 're too cowardly to defend yourself or your own family--I 'm fairly certain I ca n't depend on you to protect me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Few if any?
*YOU* have no rights.
And given that you're so willing to give them up--I'm not convinced you deserve any.Repeat:  If your reaction to violence is to shield your face and hope you don't die--you have no rights.
Your next of kin *may* have rights to punitive damages, but you've got nothing.No matter where you are, no matter what the law says--a person has a positive, affirmative right to protect themselves from immediate threat of harm.
Not god given, not law given.
Inalienable.  And not just to defend yourself--but to actively engage in that whole other list enumerated in the first ten things in the bill of rights.
Which for some of you idiots out there, is explicitly indicated as an incomplete list.
You know--they were already assumed in the original constitution, but some people wanted reassurances because politicians and the armed thugs they employee are incapable of behaving reasonably.You don't--because you refuse to utilize it.
If someone swings at you, by all means dodge and ask them to stop.
If they don't stop--kill them.
I promise, myself and many other Americans will vote NOT GUILTY regardless of the law if we're on your jury--although you may be held in contempt of court for having to get the full truth out.
I'd hope you would do the same, but given you're too cowardly to defend yourself or your own family--I'm fairly certain I can't depend on you to protect me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410532</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410316</id>
	<title>maybe you have a chip on your shoulder</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260547560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Given that customs officers are trained to get a vibe off people (by asking questions about your stay etc- they don't give a rat's ass what you say, it's HOW you say it.)  Given out righteous some slashdotters get, I can imagine them giving a customs agent a real bad vibe.  Just look at any of the threads about laptop confiscations (I agree, those are very evil and I feel they should be illegal.)  There's some serious hatred here for customs folks.

<p>I crossed the border several times to go to track driving schools.  First border crossing, I was nervous.  The Canadian officer was curt, and mostly concerned about the fact that I was unemployed at the time.  Probably picked up on my being nervous. I just didn't want the hassle of being searched or giving the "wrong" answer.

</p><p>Second border crossing, the Canadian officer was friendly and while they are trained to engage you in banter to judge how shady you are (which clearly Mr. Watts failed, want to guess why?), he seemed genuinely amused that I was taking MY car to drive on a racetrack.  Have fun, he said, and handed me my paperwork.

</p><p>Both times back, the US crossing was completely unmemorable.  Drove up, handed over my license, answered some quick questions about when I came into Canada, what I'd done, and whether I had anything to declare.  2-3 minutes, tops- long enough to run my plates and license in the computer and see how fidgety I was.  Nobody at any of the events I went to (all of them American) had anything bad to say, and some of them had been coming to the track for years.

</p><p>I lost my license right before a trip to Canada, and called around trying to figure out if a temporary replacement license was sufficient.  I eventually got put through to one of the actual border officers, who was audibly in the middle of his lunch break, munching on his sandwich.  For a cop on his lunchbreak being pestered by some dumb shmuck, he was not only helpful but...chipper.  He wouldn't make any solid promises, but he did ask me when I was coming, my name, and a few other things, and said if he was on shift when I came back into the US, he'd help if he could and take the fact that I called ahead etc under consideration, but he said I definitely needed to make sure I'd be OK getting IN to Canada.  So he gave me the number for his Canadian counterparts, and cheerfully wished me a good afternoon and best of luck trying to get a 'real' license or some other government ID out of my state government (didn't.)

</p><p>HOLY FUCKING SHIT.  A very curt, annoyed, angry Canadian customs agent answered the phone, and read me the fucking riot act and demanded to know how I got the number for their office, why was I calling them, who was I, what the hell did I want.  When I explained what I wanted (mainly to know if I'd be permitted into Canada with my temporary license, and was there anything I could do to smooth the wheels, like bringing extra documentation of some sort, anything to help), point-black refused to answer or discuss anything with me, and hung up after angrily saying "NEUO!" to several questions.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Given that customs officers are trained to get a vibe off people ( by asking questions about your stay etc- they do n't give a rat 's ass what you say , it 's HOW you say it .
) Given out righteous some slashdotters get , I can imagine them giving a customs agent a real bad vibe .
Just look at any of the threads about laptop confiscations ( I agree , those are very evil and I feel they should be illegal .
) There 's some serious hatred here for customs folks .
I crossed the border several times to go to track driving schools .
First border crossing , I was nervous .
The Canadian officer was curt , and mostly concerned about the fact that I was unemployed at the time .
Probably picked up on my being nervous .
I just did n't want the hassle of being searched or giving the " wrong " answer .
Second border crossing , the Canadian officer was friendly and while they are trained to engage you in banter to judge how shady you are ( which clearly Mr. Watts failed , want to guess why ?
) , he seemed genuinely amused that I was taking MY car to drive on a racetrack .
Have fun , he said , and handed me my paperwork .
Both times back , the US crossing was completely unmemorable .
Drove up , handed over my license , answered some quick questions about when I came into Canada , what I 'd done , and whether I had anything to declare .
2-3 minutes , tops- long enough to run my plates and license in the computer and see how fidgety I was .
Nobody at any of the events I went to ( all of them American ) had anything bad to say , and some of them had been coming to the track for years .
I lost my license right before a trip to Canada , and called around trying to figure out if a temporary replacement license was sufficient .
I eventually got put through to one of the actual border officers , who was audibly in the middle of his lunch break , munching on his sandwich .
For a cop on his lunchbreak being pestered by some dumb shmuck , he was not only helpful but...chipper .
He would n't make any solid promises , but he did ask me when I was coming , my name , and a few other things , and said if he was on shift when I came back into the US , he 'd help if he could and take the fact that I called ahead etc under consideration , but he said I definitely needed to make sure I 'd be OK getting IN to Canada .
So he gave me the number for his Canadian counterparts , and cheerfully wished me a good afternoon and best of luck trying to get a 'real ' license or some other government ID out of my state government ( did n't .
) HOLY FUCKING SHIT .
A very curt , annoyed , angry Canadian customs agent answered the phone , and read me the fucking riot act and demanded to know how I got the number for their office , why was I calling them , who was I , what the hell did I want .
When I explained what I wanted ( mainly to know if I 'd be permitted into Canada with my temporary license , and was there anything I could do to smooth the wheels , like bringing extra documentation of some sort , anything to help ) , point-black refused to answer or discuss anything with me , and hung up after angrily saying " NEUO !
" to several questions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Given that customs officers are trained to get a vibe off people (by asking questions about your stay etc- they don't give a rat's ass what you say, it's HOW you say it.
)  Given out righteous some slashdotters get, I can imagine them giving a customs agent a real bad vibe.
Just look at any of the threads about laptop confiscations (I agree, those are very evil and I feel they should be illegal.
)  There's some serious hatred here for customs folks.
I crossed the border several times to go to track driving schools.
First border crossing, I was nervous.
The Canadian officer was curt, and mostly concerned about the fact that I was unemployed at the time.
Probably picked up on my being nervous.
I just didn't want the hassle of being searched or giving the "wrong" answer.
Second border crossing, the Canadian officer was friendly and while they are trained to engage you in banter to judge how shady you are (which clearly Mr. Watts failed, want to guess why?
), he seemed genuinely amused that I was taking MY car to drive on a racetrack.
Have fun, he said, and handed me my paperwork.
Both times back, the US crossing was completely unmemorable.
Drove up, handed over my license, answered some quick questions about when I came into Canada, what I'd done, and whether I had anything to declare.
2-3 minutes, tops- long enough to run my plates and license in the computer and see how fidgety I was.
Nobody at any of the events I went to (all of them American) had anything bad to say, and some of them had been coming to the track for years.
I lost my license right before a trip to Canada, and called around trying to figure out if a temporary replacement license was sufficient.
I eventually got put through to one of the actual border officers, who was audibly in the middle of his lunch break, munching on his sandwich.
For a cop on his lunchbreak being pestered by some dumb shmuck, he was not only helpful but...chipper.
He wouldn't make any solid promises, but he did ask me when I was coming, my name, and a few other things, and said if he was on shift when I came back into the US, he'd help if he could and take the fact that I called ahead etc under consideration, but he said I definitely needed to make sure I'd be OK getting IN to Canada.
So he gave me the number for his Canadian counterparts, and cheerfully wished me a good afternoon and best of luck trying to get a 'real' license or some other government ID out of my state government (didn't.
)

HOLY FUCKING SHIT.
A very curt, annoyed, angry Canadian customs agent answered the phone, and read me the fucking riot act and demanded to know how I got the number for their office, why was I calling them, who was I, what the hell did I want.
When I explained what I wanted (mainly to know if I'd be permitted into Canada with my temporary license, and was there anything I could do to smooth the wheels, like bringing extra documentation of some sort, anything to help), point-black refused to answer or discuss anything with me, and hung up after angrily saying "NEUO!
" to several questions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411322</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>Idiomatick</author>
	<datestamp>1260556380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The average cop has to pull his gun once every 50 years or so in Toronto. I can't imagine that many shooting ranges are necessary.<br> <br>Also I'd add to the teenagers that there are a lot of American natives that came up to caledonia with guns... lots of them. And made the situation worse than it would have been.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The average cop has to pull his gun once every 50 years or so in Toronto .
I ca n't imagine that many shooting ranges are necessary .
Also I 'd add to the teenagers that there are a lot of American natives that came up to caledonia with guns... lots of them .
And made the situation worse than it would have been .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The average cop has to pull his gun once every 50 years or so in Toronto.
I can't imagine that many shooting ranges are necessary.
Also I'd add to the teenagers that there are a lot of American natives that came up to caledonia with guns... lots of them.
And made the situation worse than it would have been.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409766</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30412058</id>
	<title>Re:Let's not leap to conclusions.</title>
	<author>mjwx</author>
	<datestamp>1260610260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Him and millions of other people who realize that a posted sign saying "Don't hijack the plane" would be about as effective and far less annoying than homeland security.</p></div></blockquote><p>

"<b>Please</b> do not hijack this plane"<br> <br>

That's the problem with today's society, no one has any fucking manners.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Him and millions of other people who realize that a posted sign saying " Do n't hijack the plane " would be about as effective and far less annoying than homeland security .
" Please do not hijack this plane " That 's the problem with today 's society , no one has any fucking manners .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Him and millions of other people who realize that a posted sign saying "Don't hijack the plane" would be about as effective and far less annoying than homeland security.
"Please do not hijack this plane" 

That's the problem with today's society, no one has any fucking manners.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409392</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411176</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>Wyatt Earp</author>
	<datestamp>1260554940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, some jackass was going to blow stuff up on 1/1/2000</p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000\_millennium\_attack\_plots" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000\_millennium\_attack\_plots</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>Now they have alot of sensors and some drones watching the border. One reason why they guard it is because of sovereignty issues.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , some jackass was going to blow stuff up on 1/1/2000http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000 \ _millennium \ _attack \ _plots [ wikipedia.org ] Now they have alot of sensors and some drones watching the border .
One reason why they guard it is because of sovereignty issues .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, some jackass was going to blow stuff up on 1/1/2000http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000\_millennium\_attack\_plots [wikipedia.org]Now they have alot of sensors and some drones watching the border.
One reason why they guard it is because of sovereignty issues.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410888</id>
	<title>Re:learn the law, son</title>
	<author>Wrath0fb0b</author>
	<datestamp>1260552000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> Not possessing ID is supposedly reasonable suspicion of being involved in an illegal activity, and grounds for "detaining and questioning". I was also told this by an officer who stopped me for the suspicious activity described by most as "walking down a public street, on the sidewalk, after dark".</p> </div><p>There's a difference between being charged with a crime for refusal to show ID and being temporarily detained while the officer investigates what's afoot. The standard for the latter is "reasonable suspicion" of criminal activity that is <i>based on specific and articulable facts and inferences</i> . The officer must then either develop probable cause that a crime has been committed or cut you loose.</p><p>In assessing the reasonableness of such a seizure, the courts will usually weigh the evidence of wrongdoing against the amount of time the detention. Walking alone at night in a high-crime area is probably worth 30 seconds of rudimentary questions about who you are and where you are going. Walking around with a wire-hanger is worth quite a bit more.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not possessing ID is supposedly reasonable suspicion of being involved in an illegal activity , and grounds for " detaining and questioning " .
I was also told this by an officer who stopped me for the suspicious activity described by most as " walking down a public street , on the sidewalk , after dark " .
There 's a difference between being charged with a crime for refusal to show ID and being temporarily detained while the officer investigates what 's afoot .
The standard for the latter is " reasonable suspicion " of criminal activity that is based on specific and articulable facts and inferences .
The officer must then either develop probable cause that a crime has been committed or cut you loose.In assessing the reasonableness of such a seizure , the courts will usually weigh the evidence of wrongdoing against the amount of time the detention .
Walking alone at night in a high-crime area is probably worth 30 seconds of rudimentary questions about who you are and where you are going .
Walking around with a wire-hanger is worth quite a bit more .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Not possessing ID is supposedly reasonable suspicion of being involved in an illegal activity, and grounds for "detaining and questioning".
I was also told this by an officer who stopped me for the suspicious activity described by most as "walking down a public street, on the sidewalk, after dark".
There's a difference between being charged with a crime for refusal to show ID and being temporarily detained while the officer investigates what's afoot.
The standard for the latter is "reasonable suspicion" of criminal activity that is based on specific and articulable facts and inferences .
The officer must then either develop probable cause that a crime has been committed or cut you loose.In assessing the reasonableness of such a seizure, the courts will usually weigh the evidence of wrongdoing against the amount of time the detention.
Walking alone at night in a high-crime area is probably worth 30 seconds of rudimentary questions about who you are and where you are going.
Walking around with a wire-hanger is worth quite a bit more.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410488</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410084</id>
	<title>Re:I'm entirely inclined to believe Watts</title>
	<author>capnkr</author>
	<datestamp>1260545400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Nice, really nice, mods. An anonymous post containing no information that can be confirmed, and with only the barest description of some opinion with no factual reference, modded "Informative", "Interesting", and "Insightful"...<br> <br>For what reason could this post ever be considered any of the above, I wonder?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Nice , really nice , mods .
An anonymous post containing no information that can be confirmed , and with only the barest description of some opinion with no factual reference , modded " Informative " , " Interesting " , and " Insightful " ... For what reason could this post ever be considered any of the above , I wonder ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nice, really nice, mods.
An anonymous post containing no information that can be confirmed, and with only the barest description of some opinion with no factual reference, modded "Informative", "Interesting", and "Insightful"... For what reason could this post ever be considered any of the above, I wonder?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30412044</id>
	<title>Re:I'm entirely inclined to believe Watts</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260609900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Interestingly I had alsmost the same experience with them, except for the physical abuse.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Interestingly I had alsmost the same experience with them , except for the physical abuse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Interestingly I had alsmost the same experience with them, except for the physical abuse.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410014</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260544800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Take a look at a map of North America, we share a huge boarder."</p><p>Did he eat all the food again?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Take a look at a map of North America , we share a huge boarder .
" Did he eat all the food again ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Take a look at a map of North America, we share a huge boarder.
"Did he eat all the food again?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410118</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>hedwards</author>
	<datestamp>1260545760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Probably because you don't take immigration and naturalization as seriously as we do. Not that that's necessarily wrong, but it does take significantly less time to get naturalized in Canada than it does in the US. It's actually quicker to become a Canadian citizen then an American citizen than it is to become an American citizen directly in many cases. Unless that's changed in recent years.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Probably because you do n't take immigration and naturalization as seriously as we do .
Not that that 's necessarily wrong , but it does take significantly less time to get naturalized in Canada than it does in the US .
It 's actually quicker to become a Canadian citizen then an American citizen than it is to become an American citizen directly in many cases .
Unless that 's changed in recent years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Probably because you don't take immigration and naturalization as seriously as we do.
Not that that's necessarily wrong, but it does take significantly less time to get naturalized in Canada than it does in the US.
It's actually quicker to become a Canadian citizen then an American citizen than it is to become an American citizen directly in many cases.
Unless that's changed in recent years.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30420738</id>
	<title>time...</title>
	<author>twoHats</author>
	<datestamp>1260646440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>it's time to abolish the US - Canada border and put all those pr*cks out of work.</htmltext>
<tokenext>it 's time to abolish the US - Canada border and put all those pr * cks out of work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it's time to abolish the US - Canada border and put all those pr*cks out of work.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30413604</id>
	<title>Re:Boarder Security</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260630660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a Vermonter I agree, I'm far more worried about people from NY and Massachusetts(read not really at all worried) than I am about Canadians.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a Vermonter I agree , I 'm far more worried about people from NY and Massachusetts ( read not really at all worried ) than I am about Canadians .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a Vermonter I agree, I'm far more worried about people from NY and Massachusetts(read not really at all worried) than I am about Canadians.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409900</id>
	<title>.. and this is why tourism is down...</title>
	<author>kwandar</author>
	<datestamp>1260543960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Overly officious US border agents, the "Guantanamo halo effect" (ie. there is no rule of law)and the general unfriendliness at the border have caused me to cease visiting the US.  I can say that I am far from the only Canadian I know that now refuses to cross the border.</p><p>I don't buy there, travel there, spend there, or<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... even do business there.</p><p>I'm hoping that with the Obama administration I (and others) will become a little more comfortable and eventually travel through/to the US, but I'm far from the only Canadian that feels this way.  Pity<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... the US in general are great neighbors and great people.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Overly officious US border agents , the " Guantanamo halo effect " ( ie .
there is no rule of law ) and the general unfriendliness at the border have caused me to cease visiting the US .
I can say that I am far from the only Canadian I know that now refuses to cross the border.I do n't buy there , travel there , spend there , or .... even do business there.I 'm hoping that with the Obama administration I ( and others ) will become a little more comfortable and eventually travel through/to the US , but I 'm far from the only Canadian that feels this way .
Pity .... the US in general are great neighbors and great people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Overly officious US border agents, the "Guantanamo halo effect" (ie.
there is no rule of law)and the general unfriendliness at the border have caused me to cease visiting the US.
I can say that I am far from the only Canadian I know that now refuses to cross the border.I don't buy there, travel there, spend there, or .... even do business there.I'm hoping that with the Obama administration I (and others) will become a little more comfortable and eventually travel through/to the US, but I'm far from the only Canadian that feels this way.
Pity .... the US in general are great neighbors and great people.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409980</id>
	<title>Re:Let's not leap to conclusions.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260544500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I prefer to give law enforcement a bit of its own medicine when I can, so I assume they are guilty until it is proven otherwise. This is the way every LEO I've ever met has treated me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I prefer to give law enforcement a bit of its own medicine when I can , so I assume they are guilty until it is proven otherwise .
This is the way every LEO I 've ever met has treated me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I prefer to give law enforcement a bit of its own medicine when I can, so I assume they are guilty until it is proven otherwise.
This is the way every LEO I've ever met has treated me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30411264</id>
	<title>Opportunity Knocks</title>
	<author>BuffaloBill</author>
	<datestamp>1260555900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When this happened to another famous Canadian author, Farley Mowat, he wrote a book about it. "My Discovery of America."  It's true Mowat and a good read.  Perhaps Watts ought to take a page out of Mowats book and start keeping notes in contemplation of a publication.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When this happened to another famous Canadian author , Farley Mowat , he wrote a book about it .
" My Discovery of America .
" It 's true Mowat and a good read .
Perhaps Watts ought to take a page out of Mowats book and start keeping notes in contemplation of a publication .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When this happened to another famous Canadian author, Farley Mowat, he wrote a book about it.
"My Discovery of America.
"  It's true Mowat and a good read.
Perhaps Watts ought to take a page out of Mowats book and start keeping notes in contemplation of a publication.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409910</id>
	<title>Re:This guy writes fiction for a living</title>
	<author>hedwards</author>
	<datestamp>1260544020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Or better still, quit voting for the guys that promise to implement tougher immigration policies and prevent you from getting universal health care. Hint: It's not generally the Democrats that are advocating for extremist measure to protect the "Homeland."</htmltext>
<tokenext>Or better still , quit voting for the guys that promise to implement tougher immigration policies and prevent you from getting universal health care .
Hint : It 's not generally the Democrats that are advocating for extremist measure to protect the " Homeland .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or better still, quit voting for the guys that promise to implement tougher immigration policies and prevent you from getting universal health care.
Hint: It's not generally the Democrats that are advocating for extremist measure to protect the "Homeland.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409380</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30410972</id>
	<title>Re:learn the law, son</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260552480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They can arrest you if they suspect you of a crime. They can't "arrest you for resisting arrest."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They can arrest you if they suspect you of a crime .
They ca n't " arrest you for resisting arrest .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They can arrest you if they suspect you of a crime.
They can't "arrest you for resisting arrest.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_12_0037206.30409994</parent>
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