<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_12_11_1556237</id>
	<title>Nouveau NVIDIA Driver To Enter Linux 2.6.33 Kernel</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1260549780000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>An anonymous reader writes <i>"Not only is <a href="//linux.slashdot.org/story/09/12/11/0048247/DRBD-To-Be-Included-In-Linux-Kernel-2633">DRBD to be included in the Linux 2.6.33 kernel</a>, but so is the <a href="http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/">Nouveau driver</a>. The Nouveau driver is the free software driver that was created by clean-room reverse engineering NVIDIA's binary Linux driver. It has been in development for several years with 2D, 3D, and video support. The DRM component is <a href="http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news\_item&amp;px=Nzc5NQ">set to enter the Linux 2.6.33 kernel</a> as a staging driver. This is coming as a surprise move after yesterday <a href="http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news\_item&amp;px=Nzc5MA">Linus began ranting over Red Hat not upstreaming Nouveau</a> and then Red Hat <a href="http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news\_item&amp;px=Nzc5Mg">attributing this delay to microcode issues</a>. The microcode issue is temporarily worked around by removing it from the driver itself and using the kernel's firmware loader to insert this potentially copyrighted work instead."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>An anonymous reader writes " Not only is DRBD to be included in the Linux 2.6.33 kernel , but so is the Nouveau driver .
The Nouveau driver is the free software driver that was created by clean-room reverse engineering NVIDIA 's binary Linux driver .
It has been in development for several years with 2D , 3D , and video support .
The DRM component is set to enter the Linux 2.6.33 kernel as a staging driver .
This is coming as a surprise move after yesterday Linus began ranting over Red Hat not upstreaming Nouveau and then Red Hat attributing this delay to microcode issues .
The microcode issue is temporarily worked around by removing it from the driver itself and using the kernel 's firmware loader to insert this potentially copyrighted work instead .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An anonymous reader writes "Not only is DRBD to be included in the Linux 2.6.33 kernel, but so is the Nouveau driver.
The Nouveau driver is the free software driver that was created by clean-room reverse engineering NVIDIA's binary Linux driver.
It has been in development for several years with 2D, 3D, and video support.
The DRM component is set to enter the Linux 2.6.33 kernel as a staging driver.
This is coming as a surprise move after yesterday Linus began ranting over Red Hat not upstreaming Nouveau and then Red Hat attributing this delay to microcode issues.
The microcode issue is temporarily worked around by removing it from the driver itself and using the kernel's firmware loader to insert this potentially copyrighted work instead.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30404330</id>
	<title>Re:Just for those who wonder...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260557100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Crap... I was just going to sent them DMCA toke-down notification. Oh well, next time.</p><p>nVidia IP Officer</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Crap... I was just going to sent them DMCA toke-down notification .
Oh well , next time.nVidia IP Officer</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Crap... I was just going to sent them DMCA toke-down notification.
Oh well, next time.nVidia IP Officer</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30413852</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare with the other NVidia drive</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1260632520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hey moderator! Have you even had contact with the driver developers? Have you debugged the drivers? Have you sat for a whole week straight, trying to get pre-9.8 drivers to work with a 4800? I have!</p><p>Come here to my place! I&rsquo;ll show you that <em>every single of my statements is a fact</em>! Don&rsquo;t hide in your basement! Get here! And <em>then</em> you can think about moderating topics you don&rsquo;t know shit about!</p><p>So don&rsquo;t tell me I&rsquo;m freakin&rsquo; trolling you trollerator!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey moderator !
Have you even had contact with the driver developers ?
Have you debugged the drivers ?
Have you sat for a whole week straight , trying to get pre-9.8 drivers to work with a 4800 ?
I have ! Come here to my place !
I    ll show you that every single of my statements is a fact !
Don    t hide in your basement !
Get here !
And then you can think about moderating topics you don    t know shit about ! So don    t tell me I    m freakin    trolling you trollerator !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey moderator!
Have you even had contact with the driver developers?
Have you debugged the drivers?
Have you sat for a whole week straight, trying to get pre-9.8 drivers to work with a 4800?
I have!Come here to my place!
I’ll show you that every single of my statements is a fact!
Don’t hide in your basement!
Get here!
And then you can think about moderating topics you don’t know shit about!So don’t tell me I’m freakin’ trolling you trollerator!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30405062</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30412078</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare with the other NVidia drive</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260610740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have an ATI card with Ubuntu 9.10. It is a nightmare. It is not stable with the open driver and it simply does not work with ATI binary driver.<br>I used to have a laptop with NVidia, it was easier and more stable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have an ATI card with Ubuntu 9.10 .
It is a nightmare .
It is not stable with the open driver and it simply does not work with ATI binary driver.I used to have a laptop with NVidia , it was easier and more stable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have an ATI card with Ubuntu 9.10.
It is a nightmare.
It is not stable with the open driver and it simply does not work with ATI binary driver.I used to have a laptop with NVidia, it was easier and more stable.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403510</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30406846</id>
	<title>Real time safety and Nvidia.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260525660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is perhaps not the most common use of Linux, but some of us use it for recording.</p><p>The official NVidia drivers are not real time safe, which can cause problems for people using Linux for low latency audio work.<br>There is no way to fix this without having the source code.</p><p>If you use an RT patched kernel, the official Nvidia drivers will sometimes not even install.</p><p>The open source 2d Xorg drivers are OK most of the time, but some people use PD/Gem or Blender+Ardour etc and need 3d *and* good audio performance.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is perhaps not the most common use of Linux , but some of us use it for recording.The official NVidia drivers are not real time safe , which can cause problems for people using Linux for low latency audio work.There is no way to fix this without having the source code.If you use an RT patched kernel , the official Nvidia drivers will sometimes not even install.The open source 2d Xorg drivers are OK most of the time , but some people use PD/Gem or Blender + Ardour etc and need 3d * and * good audio performance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is perhaps not the most common use of Linux, but some of us use it for recording.The official NVidia drivers are not real time safe, which can cause problems for people using Linux for low latency audio work.There is no way to fix this without having the source code.If you use an RT patched kernel, the official Nvidia drivers will sometimes not even install.The open source 2d Xorg drivers are OK most of the time, but some people use PD/Gem or Blender+Ardour etc and need 3d *and* good audio performance.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30407168</id>
	<title>Re:Reverse engineering</title>
	<author>StormReaver</author>
	<datestamp>1260526980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>...won't this all have to be done over from scratch?</p></div><p>New card models will require more reverse engineering to get access to the new features.  All features in those models that are fully backwards compatible will still work.  Once a particular model is reverse engineered, it doesn't matter what NVIDIA does with future drivers since NVIDIA's drivers are no longer needed.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...wo n't this all have to be done over from scratch ? New card models will require more reverse engineering to get access to the new features .
All features in those models that are fully backwards compatible will still work .
Once a particular model is reverse engineered , it does n't matter what NVIDIA does with future drivers since NVIDIA 's drivers are no longer needed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ...won't this all have to be done over from scratch?New card models will require more reverse engineering to get access to the new features.
All features in those models that are fully backwards compatible will still work.
Once a particular model is reverse engineered, it doesn't matter what NVIDIA does with future drivers since NVIDIA's drivers are no longer needed.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403708</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30413084</id>
	<title>Re:What card to buy today?</title>
	<author>mikechant</author>
	<datestamp>1260625080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nvidia 8300GS - cheap low end card, works perfectly with the binary driver (suspend/resume/compiz/fullscreen video/3d games).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nvidia 8300GS - cheap low end card , works perfectly with the binary driver ( suspend/resume/compiz/fullscreen video/3d games ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nvidia 8300GS - cheap low end card, works perfectly with the binary driver (suspend/resume/compiz/fullscreen video/3d games).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403484</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403792</id>
	<title>Cost of Drivers is a Tax Now?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260555180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If Linux has free alternatives to nvidia drivers and I don't use nvidia drivers, then I should get a discount on my next purchase of an nvidia card since part of that cost goes into development of the drivers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If Linux has free alternatives to nvidia drivers and I do n't use nvidia drivers , then I should get a discount on my next purchase of an nvidia card since part of that cost goes into development of the drivers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If Linux has free alternatives to nvidia drivers and I don't use nvidia drivers, then I should get a discount on my next purchase of an nvidia card since part of that cost goes into development of the drivers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30405582</id>
	<title>Re:This is great - sort of</title>
	<author>Culture20</author>
	<datestamp>1260562680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You'll always find the odd usb controlled nerf gun turret or whatnot that lacks a driver, but that's not really an issue for most people.</p></div><p> <a href="http://www.qbik.ch/usb/devices/showdev.php?id=4022" title="www.qbik.ch">http://www.qbik.ch/usb/devices/showdev.php?id=4022</a> [www.qbik.ch] <br>
<a href="http://www.thok.org/intranet/python/usb/README.html" title="thok.org">http://www.thok.org/intranet/python/usb/README.html</a> [thok.org]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You 'll always find the odd usb controlled nerf gun turret or whatnot that lacks a driver , but that 's not really an issue for most people .
http : //www.qbik.ch/usb/devices/showdev.php ? id = 4022 [ www.qbik.ch ] http : //www.thok.org/intranet/python/usb/README.html [ thok.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You'll always find the odd usb controlled nerf gun turret or whatnot that lacks a driver, but that's not really an issue for most people.
http://www.qbik.ch/usb/devices/showdev.php?id=4022 [www.qbik.ch] 
http://www.thok.org/intranet/python/usb/README.html [thok.org]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403782</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403870</id>
	<title>Re:Just for those who wonder...</title>
	<author>Again</author>
	<datestamp>1260555600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>DRM in this context means <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct\_Rendering\_Manager" title="wikipedia.org">Direct Rendering Manager</a> [wikipedia.org] and not <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital\_rights\_management" title="wikipedia.org">Digital Rights Management</a> [wikipedia.org]</p> </div><p>Thanks.  I was reading through the comments looking for the usual DRM rants.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>DRM in this context means Direct Rendering Manager [ wikipedia.org ] and not Digital Rights Management [ wikipedia.org ] Thanks .
I was reading through the comments looking for the usual DRM rants .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>DRM in this context means Direct Rendering Manager [wikipedia.org] and not Digital Rights Management [wikipedia.org] Thanks.
I was reading through the comments looking for the usual DRM rants.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30406936</id>
	<title>Re:What card to buy today?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260525960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From personal experience:</p><p>nVidia: fast, reliable and well supported but closed.<br>Intel: slower but reliable and open, therefore even better supported. But beware that not all Intel chipsets have open source support, you better check first.</p><p>Heard thru the grapevine:<br>ATI, fast, open but buggy. Ask around to know how's their drivers status today. I can't tell about those cards since the only one I have is the built in one in my old PPC Mac Mini (Debian runs it fine though).</p><p>To summarize, today if you need fast 3D the magic word is nVidia, while for anything else about every built in video chipset will do the work.</p><p>My personal choice on two non gaming machines (one Linux, one Windows) was the nVidia 7300 (the LE model if I recall). Fast enough for high res video or non demanding stuff (to give a figure, Half Life 2 runs well at mid settings under WINE, don't even think about Crysis or similar games) but it's totally fanless, therefore 100\% silent and ideal as an office/development machine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From personal experience : nVidia : fast , reliable and well supported but closed.Intel : slower but reliable and open , therefore even better supported .
But beware that not all Intel chipsets have open source support , you better check first.Heard thru the grapevine : ATI , fast , open but buggy .
Ask around to know how 's their drivers status today .
I ca n't tell about those cards since the only one I have is the built in one in my old PPC Mac Mini ( Debian runs it fine though ) .To summarize , today if you need fast 3D the magic word is nVidia , while for anything else about every built in video chipset will do the work.My personal choice on two non gaming machines ( one Linux , one Windows ) was the nVidia 7300 ( the LE model if I recall ) .
Fast enough for high res video or non demanding stuff ( to give a figure , Half Life 2 runs well at mid settings under WINE , do n't even think about Crysis or similar games ) but it 's totally fanless , therefore 100 \ % silent and ideal as an office/development machine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From personal experience:nVidia: fast, reliable and well supported but closed.Intel: slower but reliable and open, therefore even better supported.
But beware that not all Intel chipsets have open source support, you better check first.Heard thru the grapevine:ATI, fast, open but buggy.
Ask around to know how's their drivers status today.
I can't tell about those cards since the only one I have is the built in one in my old PPC Mac Mini (Debian runs it fine though).To summarize, today if you need fast 3D the magic word is nVidia, while for anything else about every built in video chipset will do the work.My personal choice on two non gaming machines (one Linux, one Windows) was the nVidia 7300 (the LE model if I recall).
Fast enough for high res video or non demanding stuff (to give a figure, Half Life 2 runs well at mid settings under WINE, don't even think about Crysis or similar games) but it's totally fanless, therefore 100\% silent and ideal as an office/development machine.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403484</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403496</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare with the other NVidia drive</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260554160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>How do the Nouveau Nvidia drivers compare to the official ones?</p> </div><p>Slower on every machine I've tested.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How do the Nouveau Nvidia drivers compare to the official ones ?
Slower on every machine I 've tested .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How do the Nouveau Nvidia drivers compare to the official ones?
Slower on every machine I've tested.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30404372</id>
	<title>Linus in a snit</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260557400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Reading Linus' remarks, I can't help but think what a childish, whinging prat he is.  He makes Theo look calm, cool, and collected.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Reading Linus ' remarks , I ca n't help but think what a childish , whinging prat he is .
He makes Theo look calm , cool , and collected .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Reading Linus' remarks, I can't help but think what a childish, whinging prat he is.
He makes Theo look calm, cool, and collected.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403314</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30404326</id>
	<title>Re:This is great - sort of</title>
	<author>david.given</author>
	<datestamp>1260557100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I've often wondered why more reverse engineering isn't done to create Linux drivers rather than just complaining about the manufacturer of the hardware.</p></div><p>Because these days it's really, really hard.

</p><p>A modern graphics card, for example, is actually a <i>complete computer</i>. It's got RAM, a processor, a bunch of peripherals, a complete miniature operating system... and you don't even know what type of processor it is. A lot of peripherals work like this; a wireless card is typically an ARM processor with some RAM attached on one end to the radio and on the other to an I/O controller that talks to the computer.

</p><p>So in order to reverse engineer a graphics card you both need to decompile your way through multiple megabytes of binary blob driver that runs on the PC, but also decompile your way through multiple megabytes of binary blob operating system image that runs on the card... and you don't even know what the CPU architecture is!

</p><p>It's actually <i>more productive</i> to hassle the manufacturers into releasing documentation. Which in some ways is a pity; it would be really cool to be able to run your own bare-metal OS on the GPU.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've often wondered why more reverse engineering is n't done to create Linux drivers rather than just complaining about the manufacturer of the hardware.Because these days it 's really , really hard .
A modern graphics card , for example , is actually a complete computer .
It 's got RAM , a processor , a bunch of peripherals , a complete miniature operating system... and you do n't even know what type of processor it is .
A lot of peripherals work like this ; a wireless card is typically an ARM processor with some RAM attached on one end to the radio and on the other to an I/O controller that talks to the computer .
So in order to reverse engineer a graphics card you both need to decompile your way through multiple megabytes of binary blob driver that runs on the PC , but also decompile your way through multiple megabytes of binary blob operating system image that runs on the card... and you do n't even know what the CPU architecture is !
It 's actually more productive to hassle the manufacturers into releasing documentation .
Which in some ways is a pity ; it would be really cool to be able to run your own bare-metal OS on the GPU .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've often wondered why more reverse engineering isn't done to create Linux drivers rather than just complaining about the manufacturer of the hardware.Because these days it's really, really hard.
A modern graphics card, for example, is actually a complete computer.
It's got RAM, a processor, a bunch of peripherals, a complete miniature operating system... and you don't even know what type of processor it is.
A lot of peripherals work like this; a wireless card is typically an ARM processor with some RAM attached on one end to the radio and on the other to an I/O controller that talks to the computer.
So in order to reverse engineer a graphics card you both need to decompile your way through multiple megabytes of binary blob driver that runs on the PC, but also decompile your way through multiple megabytes of binary blob operating system image that runs on the card... and you don't even know what the CPU architecture is!
It's actually more productive to hassle the manufacturers into releasing documentation.
Which in some ways is a pity; it would be really cool to be able to run your own bare-metal OS on the GPU.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403592</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30405062</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare with the other NVidia drive</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1260560340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don&rsquo;t do it. Whatever you heard. I have personal experience with the &ldquo;drivers&rdquo; right now. And compared to them, the nVidia ones are a wonderful dreamland of milk and honey. (Talking about the proprietary fglrx drivers.)</p><p>The Linux &ldquo;team&rdquo; of ATi is a one-man-show, and focuses <em>only</em> on workstations. Everything else is simply ignored.<br>Sometimes out of luck, they drop some crumbs of features that are useful. But they only got compositing some weeks ago.<br>Video playback still is horrible, with only mpeg2-style codecs accelerated. And so badly rendered, that you basically have to turn it off.<br>Like applying a lens effect on the histogram. glowing white, deep black, nearly nothing in-between.<br>You can expect weird crashes, that do not happen when I then boot with the nVidia onboard card and try again.<br>They only just updated the driver to support the new kernel interfaces, after the old ones they used were so outdated, that they were completely removed from the kernel!<br>There are other weird graphics errors with areas not being redrawn.<br>And if X crashes, you can expect to press the cold reset button, because you can&rsquo;t get to any console anymore.<br>Also don&rsquo;t dare to switch to a console and back too quickly, or do it at all, without atieventsd running. Because then you also have to reset.</p><p>And that is for the 4850! I don&rsquo;t think that with the 5xxx series it will be better than back when the 4xxx was new. (When neither compositing, nor Xinerama or video playback worked at all. Let alone all of them together.)</p><p>ATi have great hardware, but really really bad drivers. For Windows too (ask any game or demo developer). Just there it&rsquo;s less visible because everybody knows how to route around.</p><p>If you&rsquo;re not planning on using a card that&rsquo;s at least one or two generations back, with the open radeon (or radeonhd) drivers, stay faar away from ATi.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Don    t do it .
Whatever you heard .
I have personal experience with the    drivers    right now .
And compared to them , the nVidia ones are a wonderful dreamland of milk and honey .
( Talking about the proprietary fglrx drivers .
) The Linux    team    of ATi is a one-man-show , and focuses only on workstations .
Everything else is simply ignored.Sometimes out of luck , they drop some crumbs of features that are useful .
But they only got compositing some weeks ago.Video playback still is horrible , with only mpeg2-style codecs accelerated .
And so badly rendered , that you basically have to turn it off.Like applying a lens effect on the histogram .
glowing white , deep black , nearly nothing in-between.You can expect weird crashes , that do not happen when I then boot with the nVidia onboard card and try again.They only just updated the driver to support the new kernel interfaces , after the old ones they used were so outdated , that they were completely removed from the kernel ! There are other weird graphics errors with areas not being redrawn.And if X crashes , you can expect to press the cold reset button , because you can    t get to any console anymore.Also don    t dare to switch to a console and back too quickly , or do it at all , without atieventsd running .
Because then you also have to reset.And that is for the 4850 !
I don    t think that with the 5xxx series it will be better than back when the 4xxx was new .
( When neither compositing , nor Xinerama or video playback worked at all .
Let alone all of them together .
) ATi have great hardware , but really really bad drivers .
For Windows too ( ask any game or demo developer ) .
Just there it    s less visible because everybody knows how to route around.If you    re not planning on using a card that    s at least one or two generations back , with the open radeon ( or radeonhd ) drivers , stay faar away from ATi .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don’t do it.
Whatever you heard.
I have personal experience with the “drivers” right now.
And compared to them, the nVidia ones are a wonderful dreamland of milk and honey.
(Talking about the proprietary fglrx drivers.
)The Linux “team” of ATi is a one-man-show, and focuses only on workstations.
Everything else is simply ignored.Sometimes out of luck, they drop some crumbs of features that are useful.
But they only got compositing some weeks ago.Video playback still is horrible, with only mpeg2-style codecs accelerated.
And so badly rendered, that you basically have to turn it off.Like applying a lens effect on the histogram.
glowing white, deep black, nearly nothing in-between.You can expect weird crashes, that do not happen when I then boot with the nVidia onboard card and try again.They only just updated the driver to support the new kernel interfaces, after the old ones they used were so outdated, that they were completely removed from the kernel!There are other weird graphics errors with areas not being redrawn.And if X crashes, you can expect to press the cold reset button, because you can’t get to any console anymore.Also don’t dare to switch to a console and back too quickly, or do it at all, without atieventsd running.
Because then you also have to reset.And that is for the 4850!
I don’t think that with the 5xxx series it will be better than back when the 4xxx was new.
(When neither compositing, nor Xinerama or video playback worked at all.
Let alone all of them together.
)ATi have great hardware, but really really bad drivers.
For Windows too (ask any game or demo developer).
Just there it’s less visible because everybody knows how to route around.If you’re not planning on using a card that’s at least one or two generations back, with the open radeon (or radeonhd) drivers, stay faar away from ATi.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403510</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30404734</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare with the other NVidia drive</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260559020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For me small things like security and stability.<br>The blob has a history of security problems and stability problems, and on my machine nouveau is just so much more stable then the nvidia binary driver.<br>Then features like KMS, having the possibility to rebuild for new API/ABIs yourself, and so on is just nice bonuses.</p><p>The only thing nouveau is lacking currently is stable 3d, but it has become better, and with kernel inclusion I have a feeling nouveau will get more exposed and more fixed, which leaves the current devs free for mesa-tasks.<br>But speedwise in 2d it is nearly comparable to nvidia-binary on my card.<br>It is just a point of - like with radeon and intel - have the latest pieces on the right places (xorg-server-1.6 has known speed problems with nouveau and so on).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For me small things like security and stability.The blob has a history of security problems and stability problems , and on my machine nouveau is just so much more stable then the nvidia binary driver.Then features like KMS , having the possibility to rebuild for new API/ABIs yourself , and so on is just nice bonuses.The only thing nouveau is lacking currently is stable 3d , but it has become better , and with kernel inclusion I have a feeling nouveau will get more exposed and more fixed , which leaves the current devs free for mesa-tasks.But speedwise in 2d it is nearly comparable to nvidia-binary on my card.It is just a point of - like with radeon and intel - have the latest pieces on the right places ( xorg-server-1.6 has known speed problems with nouveau and so on ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For me small things like security and stability.The blob has a history of security problems and stability problems, and on my machine nouveau is just so much more stable then the nvidia binary driver.Then features like KMS, having the possibility to rebuild for new API/ABIs yourself, and so on is just nice bonuses.The only thing nouveau is lacking currently is stable 3d, but it has become better, and with kernel inclusion I have a feeling nouveau will get more exposed and more fixed, which leaves the current devs free for mesa-tasks.But speedwise in 2d it is nearly comparable to nvidia-binary on my card.It is just a point of - like with radeon and intel - have the latest pieces on the right places (xorg-server-1.6 has known speed problems with nouveau and so on).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30409504</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare with the other NVidia drive</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260541260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You heard wrong or are just outright lying. I choose the latter because you reek of fanboi.</p><p>ATI and Intel both release documents for their hardware and actively work on X.org themselves to ensure that their hardware works. The default ati and intel drivers in Mesa are maintained by their respective companies now. Every release gets magnitudes more performance with their cards as X.org becomes more capable of taking full advantage of them. Meanwhile, nVidia becomes even more of a headache for everyone because other people have to do the work to maintain backwards compatibility with their binary blob.</p><p>nVidia simply refuses all efforts to be a good neighbor, or even act competitive in this case. But because many of the Linux world still live in 2005, when ATI (pre-AMD buyout) refused to give Linux any attention, still cling to your nVidia blob driver regardless, they have no incentive. Plus, if you haven't noticed, Linux isn't exactly the gaming market nVidia is after anyway.</p><p>OPs opinions are not the facts, they are just FUD. nVidia is the very distant last in terms of Linux support. Even VIA does more to support Chrome. You can find actual benchmarks around <a href="http://www.phoronix.com/" title="phoronix.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.phoronix.com/</a> [phoronix.com]</p><p>Disclaimer: I rub elbows with some people from X.org.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You heard wrong or are just outright lying .
I choose the latter because you reek of fanboi.ATI and Intel both release documents for their hardware and actively work on X.org themselves to ensure that their hardware works .
The default ati and intel drivers in Mesa are maintained by their respective companies now .
Every release gets magnitudes more performance with their cards as X.org becomes more capable of taking full advantage of them .
Meanwhile , nVidia becomes even more of a headache for everyone because other people have to do the work to maintain backwards compatibility with their binary blob.nVidia simply refuses all efforts to be a good neighbor , or even act competitive in this case .
But because many of the Linux world still live in 2005 , when ATI ( pre-AMD buyout ) refused to give Linux any attention , still cling to your nVidia blob driver regardless , they have no incentive .
Plus , if you have n't noticed , Linux is n't exactly the gaming market nVidia is after anyway.OPs opinions are not the facts , they are just FUD .
nVidia is the very distant last in terms of Linux support .
Even VIA does more to support Chrome .
You can find actual benchmarks around http : //www.phoronix.com/ [ phoronix.com ] Disclaimer : I rub elbows with some people from X.org .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You heard wrong or are just outright lying.
I choose the latter because you reek of fanboi.ATI and Intel both release documents for their hardware and actively work on X.org themselves to ensure that their hardware works.
The default ati and intel drivers in Mesa are maintained by their respective companies now.
Every release gets magnitudes more performance with their cards as X.org becomes more capable of taking full advantage of them.
Meanwhile, nVidia becomes even more of a headache for everyone because other people have to do the work to maintain backwards compatibility with their binary blob.nVidia simply refuses all efforts to be a good neighbor, or even act competitive in this case.
But because many of the Linux world still live in 2005, when ATI (pre-AMD buyout) refused to give Linux any attention, still cling to your nVidia blob driver regardless, they have no incentive.
Plus, if you haven't noticed, Linux isn't exactly the gaming market nVidia is after anyway.OPs opinions are not the facts, they are just FUD.
nVidia is the very distant last in terms of Linux support.
Even VIA does more to support Chrome.
You can find actual benchmarks around http://www.phoronix.com/ [phoronix.com]Disclaimer: I rub elbows with some people from X.org.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403740</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30446610</id>
	<title>Re:This is great - sort of</title>
	<author>badkarmadayaccount</author>
	<datestamp>1260901560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Dear IBM^H^H^HSanta Clause,
I wish the PC world had channel I/O, so they could quit wasting silicon.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Dear IBM ^ H ^ H ^ HSanta Clause , I wish the PC world had channel I/O , so they could quit wasting silicon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dear IBM^H^H^HSanta Clause,
I wish the PC world had channel I/O, so they could quit wasting silicon.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30404326</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403820</id>
	<title>Good Point!</title>
	<author>Cassini2</author>
	<datestamp>1260555300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Good Point! I was a little confused by the reference too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Good Point !
I was a little confused by the reference too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good Point!
I was a little confused by the reference too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403866</id>
	<title>Re:What card to buy today?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260555600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How sure are you that some kid in Sri Lanka wont reply to your message now?</p><p>Go with nvidia.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How sure are you that some kid in Sri Lanka wont reply to your message now ? Go with nvidia .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How sure are you that some kid in Sri Lanka wont reply to your message now?Go with nvidia.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403484</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30412262</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare with the other NVidia drive</title>
	<author>Pecisk</author>
	<datestamp>1260615000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually AMD/ATI has changed their attitude in last two years and have pushed lot of stuff which is obsoleted from binary driver into open source 'radeon' one, giving docs to developers along the way. It might be slow and some cards in the middle are left out in the cold (when distros and Xorg fail to include open sourced support in time), but it's improving. For two years I had laptop which has ATI Radeon Mobility X1600 (I think), which support in binary drivers starting with Ubuntu Gutsy was nightmare. And vola, in next release support was already in free 'radeon' driver! I was quite surprised.</p><p>In result, I have a little bit more faith in AMD than with Nvidia, which in fact have no plans at all to ever opensource or provide docs for any cards, even stuff they don't even sell anymore. Therefore nouveau effort is that important. When Nvidia will be gone or they will drop support for old cards, there will be nowhere else to go but with nouveau.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually AMD/ATI has changed their attitude in last two years and have pushed lot of stuff which is obsoleted from binary driver into open source 'radeon ' one , giving docs to developers along the way .
It might be slow and some cards in the middle are left out in the cold ( when distros and Xorg fail to include open sourced support in time ) , but it 's improving .
For two years I had laptop which has ATI Radeon Mobility X1600 ( I think ) , which support in binary drivers starting with Ubuntu Gutsy was nightmare .
And vola , in next release support was already in free 'radeon ' driver !
I was quite surprised.In result , I have a little bit more faith in AMD than with Nvidia , which in fact have no plans at all to ever opensource or provide docs for any cards , even stuff they do n't even sell anymore .
Therefore nouveau effort is that important .
When Nvidia will be gone or they will drop support for old cards , there will be nowhere else to go but with nouveau .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually AMD/ATI has changed their attitude in last two years and have pushed lot of stuff which is obsoleted from binary driver into open source 'radeon' one, giving docs to developers along the way.
It might be slow and some cards in the middle are left out in the cold (when distros and Xorg fail to include open sourced support in time), but it's improving.
For two years I had laptop which has ATI Radeon Mobility X1600 (I think), which support in binary drivers starting with Ubuntu Gutsy was nightmare.
And vola, in next release support was already in free 'radeon' driver!
I was quite surprised.In result, I have a little bit more faith in AMD than with Nvidia, which in fact have no plans at all to ever opensource or provide docs for any cards, even stuff they don't even sell anymore.
Therefore nouveau effort is that important.
When Nvidia will be gone or they will drop support for old cards, there will be nowhere else to go but with nouveau.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403740</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403856</id>
	<title>Re:I'm not an Avid Linux User...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260555540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It means that there will be an open source Nvidia driver that isn't (frankly) crap.</p><p>As it is, you can run a number of games on Linux, there are some native ones (sadly not that many). However, many games will run on Wine. Wine has gotten pretty good.</p><p>I was recently comparing 32-bit vs 64-bit, and using blender as an example on both Kubuntu 9.10 and Windows 7. So I decided to try the Windows version on Wine/Kubuntu. The win64 version would not run, but the win32 version did, and was faster under wine than running on Windows 7. (Not by a lot, about 2\%, but it is still impressive that Wine does some win32 faster than Windows 7. Also, amusingly some of the runs of Wine/Blender are faster than Native Linux/Blender ~1\%)</p><p>(2.49b-&gt;2.50-alpha-1 is about 60\% of the render time, 32-&gt;64 bit is about 60-70\% on Kubuntu 9.10 and 78-85\% on Windows 7, total from 2.49b 32-&gt;64bit is about 37\% on Linux and about 49\% for Windows, comparing 2.50-alpha-1 64-bit (native) Kubuntu takes about 75\% of the time Windows 7 does.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It means that there will be an open source Nvidia driver that is n't ( frankly ) crap.As it is , you can run a number of games on Linux , there are some native ones ( sadly not that many ) .
However , many games will run on Wine .
Wine has gotten pretty good.I was recently comparing 32-bit vs 64-bit , and using blender as an example on both Kubuntu 9.10 and Windows 7 .
So I decided to try the Windows version on Wine/Kubuntu .
The win64 version would not run , but the win32 version did , and was faster under wine than running on Windows 7 .
( Not by a lot , about 2 \ % , but it is still impressive that Wine does some win32 faster than Windows 7 .
Also , amusingly some of the runs of Wine/Blender are faster than Native Linux/Blender ~ 1 \ % ) ( 2.49b- &gt; 2.50-alpha-1 is about 60 \ % of the render time , 32- &gt; 64 bit is about 60-70 \ % on Kubuntu 9.10 and 78-85 \ % on Windows 7 , total from 2.49b 32- &gt; 64bit is about 37 \ % on Linux and about 49 \ % for Windows , comparing 2.50-alpha-1 64-bit ( native ) Kubuntu takes about 75 \ % of the time Windows 7 does .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It means that there will be an open source Nvidia driver that isn't (frankly) crap.As it is, you can run a number of games on Linux, there are some native ones (sadly not that many).
However, many games will run on Wine.
Wine has gotten pretty good.I was recently comparing 32-bit vs 64-bit, and using blender as an example on both Kubuntu 9.10 and Windows 7.
So I decided to try the Windows version on Wine/Kubuntu.
The win64 version would not run, but the win32 version did, and was faster under wine than running on Windows 7.
(Not by a lot, about 2\%, but it is still impressive that Wine does some win32 faster than Windows 7.
Also, amusingly some of the runs of Wine/Blender are faster than Native Linux/Blender ~1\%)(2.49b-&gt;2.50-alpha-1 is about 60\% of the render time, 32-&gt;64 bit is about 60-70\% on Kubuntu 9.10 and 78-85\% on Windows 7, total from 2.49b 32-&gt;64bit is about 37\% on Linux and about 49\% for Windows, comparing 2.50-alpha-1 64-bit (native) Kubuntu takes about 75\% of the time Windows 7 does.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403314</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30407844</id>
	<title>VDPAU support?</title>
	<author>batkiwi</author>
	<datestamp>1260530940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Does this have VDPAU support ready?  Planned?  On ANY horizon?</p><p>If so, hooray!</p><p>If not, worthless for everyone who chose nvidia over ATI for this killer feature.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does this have VDPAU support ready ?
Planned ? On ANY horizon ? If so , hooray ! If not , worthless for everyone who chose nvidia over ATI for this killer feature .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does this have VDPAU support ready?
Planned?  On ANY horizon?If so, hooray!If not, worthless for everyone who chose nvidia over ATI for this killer feature.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403622</id>
	<title>Just for  those who wonder...</title>
	<author>Corporate Troll</author>
	<datestamp>1260554640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>DRM in this context means <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct\_Rendering\_Manager" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">Direct Rendering Manager</a> [wikipedia.org] and not <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital\_rights\_management" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">Digital Rights Management</a> [wikipedia.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>DRM in this context means Direct Rendering Manager [ wikipedia.org ] and not Digital Rights Management [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>DRM in this context means Direct Rendering Manager [wikipedia.org] and not Digital Rights Management [wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30407648</id>
	<title>Re:Reverse engineering</title>
	<author>recharged95</author>
	<datestamp>1260529800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Agreed, will all the brainpower, testing and effort put into this, they might as well had prototyped a non-nvidia hardware design, opensourced the design to someone like intel to create a mass producible ref design and then licensed it to Nvidia. Then we'd have stuff like GMA's architecture (and plays very easy with FOSS code) with Nvidia power.... and everyone wins.
<br>
<br>
The OP's approach is really a nose in the air, we're smarter than everyone else and going it alone approach--if Nvidia takes note to compete, it will bite this effort in the butt down the road.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed , will all the brainpower , testing and effort put into this , they might as well had prototyped a non-nvidia hardware design , opensourced the design to someone like intel to create a mass producible ref design and then licensed it to Nvidia .
Then we 'd have stuff like GMA 's architecture ( and plays very easy with FOSS code ) with Nvidia power.... and everyone wins .
The OP 's approach is really a nose in the air , we 're smarter than everyone else and going it alone approach--if Nvidia takes note to compete , it will bite this effort in the butt down the road .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed, will all the brainpower, testing and effort put into this, they might as well had prototyped a non-nvidia hardware design, opensourced the design to someone like intel to create a mass producible ref design and then licensed it to Nvidia.
Then we'd have stuff like GMA's architecture (and plays very easy with FOSS code) with Nvidia power.... and everyone wins.
The OP's approach is really a nose in the air, we're smarter than everyone else and going it alone approach--if Nvidia takes note to compete, it will bite this effort in the butt down the road.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403708</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30406722</id>
	<title>Re:monolithic kernel</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260525000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>monolithic kernel is monolithic!</p><p>Soon 2.6 will have support for the kitchen sink!</p></div><p>[*] monolithic kernel<br>[ ] kitchen sink<br>[M] ???<br>[*] PROFIT!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>monolithic kernel is monolithic ! Soon 2.6 will have support for the kitchen sink !
[ * ] monolithic kernel [ ] kitchen sink [ M ] ? ? ?
[ * ] PROFIT !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>monolithic kernel is monolithic!Soon 2.6 will have support for the kitchen sink!
[*] monolithic kernel[ ] kitchen sink[M] ???
[*] PROFIT!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403700</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30405478</id>
	<title>I can finally install Ubuntu on my computer</title>
	<author>Culture20</author>
	<datestamp>1260562200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...using the GUI that is.  Ubuntu's Live CDs have had problems with the nv driver on the Live CD producing green vertical lines with certain video cards for a long while.  Also, the VESA driver is broken and reloads xorg every half-second (the nv driver is better because at least a virt term works).</htmltext>
<tokenext>...using the GUI that is .
Ubuntu 's Live CDs have had problems with the nv driver on the Live CD producing green vertical lines with certain video cards for a long while .
Also , the VESA driver is broken and reloads xorg every half-second ( the nv driver is better because at least a virt term works ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...using the GUI that is.
Ubuntu's Live CDs have had problems with the nv driver on the Live CD producing green vertical lines with certain video cards for a long while.
Also, the VESA driver is broken and reloads xorg every half-second (the nv driver is better because at least a virt term works).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403314</id>
	<title>I'm not an Avid Linux User...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260553500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But does this mean I could run a Video game?</p><p>Does this mean the "But does it run on Linux" Jokes will come to an end?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But does this mean I could run a Video game ? Does this mean the " But does it run on Linux " Jokes will come to an end ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But does this mean I could run a Video game?Does this mean the "But does it run on Linux" Jokes will come to an end?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30405946</id>
	<title>Mandriva also ships with Nouveau</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260564360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Mandriva also ships with Nouveau, but that don't seems to be mentioned. Also other distros ship it?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Mandriva also ships with Nouveau , but that do n't seems to be mentioned .
Also other distros ship it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mandriva also ships with Nouveau, but that don't seems to be mentioned.
Also other distros ship it?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30406690</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare with the other NVidia drive</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260524940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>NVIDIA has already effectively done this with all the pre-GeForce 5xxx cards.  You can still get their last drivers, but they won't work on any remotely modern distribution.</htmltext>
<tokenext>NVIDIA has already effectively done this with all the pre-GeForce 5xxx cards .
You can still get their last drivers , but they wo n't work on any remotely modern distribution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>NVIDIA has already effectively done this with all the pre-GeForce 5xxx cards.
You can still get their last drivers, but they won't work on any remotely modern distribution.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403818</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403328</id>
	<title>Why not just use the Windows driver model..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260553620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>.. and directly load those superior and polished drivers?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>.. and directly load those superior and polished drivers ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>.. and directly load those superior and polished drivers?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403760</id>
	<title>What about BSD?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260555060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, currently there is an issue with xorg 7.5 being imported into FreeBSD due very Linux specific driver "hacks", specifically in the latest Intel drivers and the ATI radeon drivers. Is this the same issue? Will this Nouveau driver work on anything else or is "open source" becoming synonymous with "if it runs on Linux, that's good enough". Linux has achieved great strides, but far too many "open source" developers target Linux only and have blinders on to any other open source OS or UNIX'esque OS where this stuff should really be able to run.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , currently there is an issue with xorg 7.5 being imported into FreeBSD due very Linux specific driver " hacks " , specifically in the latest Intel drivers and the ATI radeon drivers .
Is this the same issue ?
Will this Nouveau driver work on anything else or is " open source " becoming synonymous with " if it runs on Linux , that 's good enough " .
Linux has achieved great strides , but far too many " open source " developers target Linux only and have blinders on to any other open source OS or UNIX'esque OS where this stuff should really be able to run .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, currently there is an issue with xorg 7.5 being imported into FreeBSD due very Linux specific driver "hacks", specifically in the latest Intel drivers and the ATI radeon drivers.
Is this the same issue?
Will this Nouveau driver work on anything else or is "open source" becoming synonymous with "if it runs on Linux, that's good enough".
Linux has achieved great strides, but far too many "open source" developers target Linux only and have blinders on to any other open source OS or UNIX'esque OS where this stuff should really be able to run.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30404012</id>
	<title>Re:Cost of Drivers is a Tax Now?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260556080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If I buy a car, then paint it myself, do I get a discount on the car since some of the cost payed for painting it originally?</p><p>I mean, give me a break, I'm probably considered huge FOSS appologist and proprietary software hater, but even I think that is stupid.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If I buy a car , then paint it myself , do I get a discount on the car since some of the cost payed for painting it originally ? I mean , give me a break , I 'm probably considered huge FOSS appologist and proprietary software hater , but even I think that is stupid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I buy a car, then paint it myself, do I get a discount on the car since some of the cost payed for painting it originally?I mean, give me a break, I'm probably considered huge FOSS appologist and proprietary software hater, but even I think that is stupid.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403792</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30404094</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare with the other NVidia drive</title>
	<author>paziek</author>
	<datestamp>1260556380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For a few months now I had issues with both HD 3850 at home, and HD 4870 at work. It keeps probing my monitor for available modes, and that makes a lot of stuff slower/non-workin. Wine usage if out of question. At home I could still watch videos, its not possible at work tho. But at work I had more updated version of Linux, so perhaps thats why. Right now I'm using Windows as host for Virtualbox where I run my Ubuntu - it works better that way. Mind, that this error is also true for Gentoo (or it was a few months ago, when I ditched Linux at home). I think that ubuntu 7.10 works good with Radeons, so u might try that. Just don't update it (not just drivers, X as well).<br>Anyway, Linux friendliness could be true, as I hear they are trying to open up documentation for their drivers so that community can make open-source ones better. But it doesn't mean, that right now Radeon drivers are better. At least not the one provided by AMD.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For a few months now I had issues with both HD 3850 at home , and HD 4870 at work .
It keeps probing my monitor for available modes , and that makes a lot of stuff slower/non-workin .
Wine usage if out of question .
At home I could still watch videos , its not possible at work tho .
But at work I had more updated version of Linux , so perhaps thats why .
Right now I 'm using Windows as host for Virtualbox where I run my Ubuntu - it works better that way .
Mind , that this error is also true for Gentoo ( or it was a few months ago , when I ditched Linux at home ) .
I think that ubuntu 7.10 works good with Radeons , so u might try that .
Just do n't update it ( not just drivers , X as well ) .Anyway , Linux friendliness could be true , as I hear they are trying to open up documentation for their drivers so that community can make open-source ones better .
But it does n't mean , that right now Radeon drivers are better .
At least not the one provided by AMD .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For a few months now I had issues with both HD 3850 at home, and HD 4870 at work.
It keeps probing my monitor for available modes, and that makes a lot of stuff slower/non-workin.
Wine usage if out of question.
At home I could still watch videos, its not possible at work tho.
But at work I had more updated version of Linux, so perhaps thats why.
Right now I'm using Windows as host for Virtualbox where I run my Ubuntu - it works better that way.
Mind, that this error is also true for Gentoo (or it was a few months ago, when I ditched Linux at home).
I think that ubuntu 7.10 works good with Radeons, so u might try that.
Just don't update it (not just drivers, X as well).Anyway, Linux friendliness could be true, as I hear they are trying to open up documentation for their drivers so that community can make open-source ones better.
But it doesn't mean, that right now Radeon drivers are better.
At least not the one provided by AMD.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403510</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30405716</id>
	<title>Re:Reverse engineering</title>
	<author>gr8\_phk</author>
	<datestamp>1260563340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>A number of reverse engineering tools were developed for the Nouveau effort. Some of that can be used for similar efforts with other hardware. Most of that can be used should a new graphics driver architecture come out of nVidia. I have often wonder how long it will take if the Nouveau status matrix gets a new column, for that new generation of card to get support. It's been like 3 years for all the existing ones.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A number of reverse engineering tools were developed for the Nouveau effort .
Some of that can be used for similar efforts with other hardware .
Most of that can be used should a new graphics driver architecture come out of nVidia .
I have often wonder how long it will take if the Nouveau status matrix gets a new column , for that new generation of card to get support .
It 's been like 3 years for all the existing ones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A number of reverse engineering tools were developed for the Nouveau effort.
Some of that can be used for similar efforts with other hardware.
Most of that can be used should a new graphics driver architecture come out of nVidia.
I have often wonder how long it will take if the Nouveau status matrix gets a new column, for that new generation of card to get support.
It's been like 3 years for all the existing ones.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403708</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30405662</id>
	<title>Re:This is great - sort of</title>
	<author>gr8\_phk</author>
	<datestamp>1260563040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The reverse engineering of the nVidia driver took advantage of the close nVidia driver. Because the OS is open, they were able to put in hooks to intercept all data moving between the computer and the card. They can even monitor communication during specific rendering events. While it's an enormous amount of effort for a video card, it pales in comparison to trying to figure out how even a simple device works with no documentation and no existing way to manipulate it. In other words, the existence of the closed driver is what made the effort possible in the first place.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The reverse engineering of the nVidia driver took advantage of the close nVidia driver .
Because the OS is open , they were able to put in hooks to intercept all data moving between the computer and the card .
They can even monitor communication during specific rendering events .
While it 's an enormous amount of effort for a video card , it pales in comparison to trying to figure out how even a simple device works with no documentation and no existing way to manipulate it .
In other words , the existence of the closed driver is what made the effort possible in the first place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reverse engineering of the nVidia driver took advantage of the close nVidia driver.
Because the OS is open, they were able to put in hooks to intercept all data moving between the computer and the card.
They can even monitor communication during specific rendering events.
While it's an enormous amount of effort for a video card, it pales in comparison to trying to figure out how even a simple device works with no documentation and no existing way to manipulate it.
In other words, the existence of the closed driver is what made the effort possible in the first place.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403592</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403976</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare with the other NVidia drive</title>
	<author>pantherace</author>
	<datestamp>1260555960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>None ship them enabled because nvidia doesn't let them by default.* I think at least one distro has distributed them (Mandrake) possibly in one of their pay products. Most have an option to download them after install. (Kubuntu, Gentoo being the last two I checked, though you could argue that's still in the install for gentoo.)</p><p>Frankly, I think you'll be disappointed in the support ATI on Linux has.</p><p>*I just looked, and they now allow it, provided nothing is modified. They didn't last time I looked.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>None ship them enabled because nvidia does n't let them by default .
* I think at least one distro has distributed them ( Mandrake ) possibly in one of their pay products .
Most have an option to download them after install .
( Kubuntu , Gentoo being the last two I checked , though you could argue that 's still in the install for gentoo .
) Frankly , I think you 'll be disappointed in the support ATI on Linux has .
* I just looked , and they now allow it , provided nothing is modified .
They did n't last time I looked .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>None ship them enabled because nvidia doesn't let them by default.
* I think at least one distro has distributed them (Mandrake) possibly in one of their pay products.
Most have an option to download them after install.
(Kubuntu, Gentoo being the last two I checked, though you could argue that's still in the install for gentoo.
)Frankly, I think you'll be disappointed in the support ATI on Linux has.
*I just looked, and they now allow it, provided nothing is modified.
They didn't last time I looked.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403510</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403690</id>
	<title>Re:What card to buy today?</title>
	<author>gazbo</author>
	<datestamp>1260554880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>My work laptop has a GeForce 9600M GS (according to lspci) and once I installed the binary driver with a simple `yum install kmod-nvidia` it just worked.  Dual screens with different resolutions set up fine with the nvidia utility (don't use the standard Linux display stuff) and performance on compositing is great.  Only difference is I'm using Gnome not KDE.<p>And I know fuck all about Linux, so it must work easily.  I read nvidia cards worked well, and it certainly seemed to go smoother than the Radeon in my old laptop.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My work laptop has a GeForce 9600M GS ( according to lspci ) and once I installed the binary driver with a simple ` yum install kmod-nvidia ` it just worked .
Dual screens with different resolutions set up fine with the nvidia utility ( do n't use the standard Linux display stuff ) and performance on compositing is great .
Only difference is I 'm using Gnome not KDE.And I know fuck all about Linux , so it must work easily .
I read nvidia cards worked well , and it certainly seemed to go smoother than the Radeon in my old laptop .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My work laptop has a GeForce 9600M GS (according to lspci) and once I installed the binary driver with a simple `yum install kmod-nvidia` it just worked.
Dual screens with different resolutions set up fine with the nvidia utility (don't use the standard Linux display stuff) and performance on compositing is great.
Only difference is I'm using Gnome not KDE.And I know fuck all about Linux, so it must work easily.
I read nvidia cards worked well, and it certainly seemed to go smoother than the Radeon in my old laptop.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403484</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403890</id>
	<title>Re:What card to buy today?</title>
	<author>diegocg</author>
	<datestamp>1260555660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A motherboard with an integrated intel graphic card. They are not as fast as ATI/Nvidia, but they work great for things like desktop compositting, and the driver is the most complete and stable driver available in the FOSS world.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A motherboard with an integrated intel graphic card .
They are not as fast as ATI/Nvidia , but they work great for things like desktop compositting , and the driver is the most complete and stable driver available in the FOSS world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A motherboard with an integrated intel graphic card.
They are not as fast as ATI/Nvidia, but they work great for things like desktop compositting, and the driver is the most complete and stable driver available in the FOSS world.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403484</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30404210</id>
	<title>Re:I'm not an Avid Linux User...</title>
	<author>V!NCENT</author>
	<datestamp>1260556800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>*sigh*</p><p>The DRM module we're talking about is the Direct Rendering Manager. That means bypassing userspace layers and directly talking to the kernel which then talks to the graphics card.<br>You could run hardware accelerated graphics on Linux for ages and ages and ages ago. What stone have you been living under?</p><p>I was playing Quake 3 since the Pentium3 days, with hardware OpenGL acceleration on Linux.</p><p>Maybe you should watch a video in which somebody plays Crysis on Linux? -&gt; <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ147bcoLi0" title="youtube.com">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ147bcoLi0</a> [youtube.com]</p><p>Fscktard...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>* sigh * The DRM module we 're talking about is the Direct Rendering Manager .
That means bypassing userspace layers and directly talking to the kernel which then talks to the graphics card.You could run hardware accelerated graphics on Linux for ages and ages and ages ago .
What stone have you been living under ? I was playing Quake 3 since the Pentium3 days , with hardware OpenGL acceleration on Linux.Maybe you should watch a video in which somebody plays Crysis on Linux ?
- &gt; http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = fZ147bcoLi0 [ youtube.com ] Fscktard.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>*sigh*The DRM module we're talking about is the Direct Rendering Manager.
That means bypassing userspace layers and directly talking to the kernel which then talks to the graphics card.You could run hardware accelerated graphics on Linux for ages and ages and ages ago.
What stone have you been living under?I was playing Quake 3 since the Pentium3 days, with hardware OpenGL acceleration on Linux.Maybe you should watch a video in which somebody plays Crysis on Linux?
-&gt; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ147bcoLi0 [youtube.com]Fscktard...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403314</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403592</id>
	<title>This is great - sort of</title>
	<author>ClosedSource</author>
	<datestamp>1260554460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've often wondered why more reverse engineering isn't done to create Linux drivers rather than just complaining about the manufacturer of the hardware. The only unfortunate thing about this project is that Linux drivers already exist (according to other posts here).</p><p>Wouldn't it be better to reverse-engineer hardware to create Linux drivers that don't exist?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've often wondered why more reverse engineering is n't done to create Linux drivers rather than just complaining about the manufacturer of the hardware .
The only unfortunate thing about this project is that Linux drivers already exist ( according to other posts here ) .Would n't it be better to reverse-engineer hardware to create Linux drivers that do n't exist ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've often wondered why more reverse engineering isn't done to create Linux drivers rather than just complaining about the manufacturer of the hardware.
The only unfortunate thing about this project is that Linux drivers already exist (according to other posts here).Wouldn't it be better to reverse-engineer hardware to create Linux drivers that don't exist?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30406414</id>
	<title>Re:What card to buy today?</title>
	<author>bfields</author>
	<datestamp>1260523680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For composited desktop with all the wobbly windows and such, tuxracer, watching DVD's, etc., the integrated intel chips are more than adequate and have great open-source support (everything except GMA 500 they use in netbooks).</p><p>I'm told they aren't so great for the latest games.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For composited desktop with all the wobbly windows and such , tuxracer , watching DVD 's , etc. , the integrated intel chips are more than adequate and have great open-source support ( everything except GMA 500 they use in netbooks ) .I 'm told they are n't so great for the latest games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For composited desktop with all the wobbly windows and such, tuxracer, watching DVD's, etc., the integrated intel chips are more than adequate and have great open-source support (everything except GMA 500 they use in netbooks).I'm told they aren't so great for the latest games.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403484</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30404322</id>
	<title>Re:What card to buy today?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260557100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have been using almost 100\% nVidia for the last 10 years just because they have always supported Linux the best.  Any graphics card will an nVidia chipset will do although I prefer EVGA these days.</p><p>I have tried ATI a few times over the years and it sucked every single time.  Especially their OpenGL support which to this day continues to suck-ass.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have been using almost 100 \ % nVidia for the last 10 years just because they have always supported Linux the best .
Any graphics card will an nVidia chipset will do although I prefer EVGA these days.I have tried ATI a few times over the years and it sucked every single time .
Especially their OpenGL support which to this day continues to suck-ass .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have been using almost 100\% nVidia for the last 10 years just because they have always supported Linux the best.
Any graphics card will an nVidia chipset will do although I prefer EVGA these days.I have tried ATI a few times over the years and it sucked every single time.
Especially their OpenGL support which to this day continues to suck-ass.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403484</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30404790</id>
	<title>Re:monolithic kernel</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260559320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, how they dare, adding functionality to the kernel. Those bastards.</p><p>Can't we have a barely functioning lean system, like in the Good Old Times (TM)?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , how they dare , adding functionality to the kernel .
Those bastards.Ca n't we have a barely functioning lean system , like in the Good Old Times ( TM ) ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, how they dare, adding functionality to the kernel.
Those bastards.Can't we have a barely functioning lean system, like in the Good Old Times (TM)?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403700</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30406720</id>
	<title>Good news.  Next stop: The Future</title>
	<author>Lemming Mark</author>
	<datestamp>1260525000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is good stuff, I think.  They're not going to shove the whole Nouveau device driver into the kernel, it'll follow the modern X.org / Linux model of having kernel modesetting and a DRM driver in the kernel and a whole load of other stuff living in userspace.</p><p>Kernel modesetting (KMS) means that one entity, the kernel, always controls what graphics mode the video card is in.  That's useful because pre-KMS, X.org might have changed the mode *without the kernel knowing*.  That's one reason Linux can't easily have a Blue Screen Of Death - the kernel doesn't know what it can send to the graphics card to display it.  BSOD isn't a feature you want to *see* but if you have a kernel panic, it'd be a lot more useful to actually see it, rather than it being hidden by your frozen X server!  I'm not aware of graphical kernel panics currently being supported but at least it could be done in principle now, AIUI.  KMS also reduces unnecessary modeswitching "to make sure" that you otherwise get, so switching between console and X should be quicker, as should switching between X sessions (fast user switching).  KMS is also what's used by the new bootsplashes, like RedHat's Plymouth (which other distros, e.g. Mandriva) are also moving towards.  DRM, in this context, is the Direct Rendering Manager and is how GL apps get direct rendering access to the graphics card, in a controlled way.  I don't know so much about that though<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p><p>The Nvidia open source driver "nv" doesn't support KMS or any 3D.  The Nvidia proprietary driver doesn't support KMS but does support 3D (with good performance).  Many distros have tended to use nv by default, some do ship nvidia though.  Either way, you don't get the nice boot splash and neater terminal switching that a KMS driver would get you.  The Nvidia proprietary driver is good performance-wise but it also tends to lag the open source drivers in terms of features a little; I think Nouveau (at one point?  may not still be true) was aiming to support Xrandr features that Nvidia's did not.  I've also heard that Nvidia's driver has issues with suspend.</p><p>Because of all this, expanding Nouveau support is a good thing.  Nouveau are also in the process of reverse engineering for 3D support but they have some way to go.  However, I've had the impression that it's getting towards being better than the 2D-only nv driver.  So at *least* it will mean that when installing on your system you can expect a decent boot experience and correctly-working basic 2D graphics, with suspend/resume behaving sensible, etc.  So it could be making life better for users *soon*.  But as 3D support improves, things should get better still.</p><p>The Linux kernel devs generally take a stance these days that all kernel code ought to be merged into Linus's tree as soon as possible.  It's really rather impressive to see this process working and the kernel devs (mostly) really following through on this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is good stuff , I think .
They 're not going to shove the whole Nouveau device driver into the kernel , it 'll follow the modern X.org / Linux model of having kernel modesetting and a DRM driver in the kernel and a whole load of other stuff living in userspace.Kernel modesetting ( KMS ) means that one entity , the kernel , always controls what graphics mode the video card is in .
That 's useful because pre-KMS , X.org might have changed the mode * without the kernel knowing * .
That 's one reason Linux ca n't easily have a Blue Screen Of Death - the kernel does n't know what it can send to the graphics card to display it .
BSOD is n't a feature you want to * see * but if you have a kernel panic , it 'd be a lot more useful to actually see it , rather than it being hidden by your frozen X server !
I 'm not aware of graphical kernel panics currently being supported but at least it could be done in principle now , AIUI .
KMS also reduces unnecessary modeswitching " to make sure " that you otherwise get , so switching between console and X should be quicker , as should switching between X sessions ( fast user switching ) .
KMS is also what 's used by the new bootsplashes , like RedHat 's Plymouth ( which other distros , e.g .
Mandriva ) are also moving towards .
DRM , in this context , is the Direct Rendering Manager and is how GL apps get direct rendering access to the graphics card , in a controlled way .
I do n't know so much about that though ; - ) The Nvidia open source driver " nv " does n't support KMS or any 3D .
The Nvidia proprietary driver does n't support KMS but does support 3D ( with good performance ) .
Many distros have tended to use nv by default , some do ship nvidia though .
Either way , you do n't get the nice boot splash and neater terminal switching that a KMS driver would get you .
The Nvidia proprietary driver is good performance-wise but it also tends to lag the open source drivers in terms of features a little ; I think Nouveau ( at one point ?
may not still be true ) was aiming to support Xrandr features that Nvidia 's did not .
I 've also heard that Nvidia 's driver has issues with suspend.Because of all this , expanding Nouveau support is a good thing .
Nouveau are also in the process of reverse engineering for 3D support but they have some way to go .
However , I 've had the impression that it 's getting towards being better than the 2D-only nv driver .
So at * least * it will mean that when installing on your system you can expect a decent boot experience and correctly-working basic 2D graphics , with suspend/resume behaving sensible , etc .
So it could be making life better for users * soon * .
But as 3D support improves , things should get better still.The Linux kernel devs generally take a stance these days that all kernel code ought to be merged into Linus 's tree as soon as possible .
It 's really rather impressive to see this process working and the kernel devs ( mostly ) really following through on this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is good stuff, I think.
They're not going to shove the whole Nouveau device driver into the kernel, it'll follow the modern X.org / Linux model of having kernel modesetting and a DRM driver in the kernel and a whole load of other stuff living in userspace.Kernel modesetting (KMS) means that one entity, the kernel, always controls what graphics mode the video card is in.
That's useful because pre-KMS, X.org might have changed the mode *without the kernel knowing*.
That's one reason Linux can't easily have a Blue Screen Of Death - the kernel doesn't know what it can send to the graphics card to display it.
BSOD isn't a feature you want to *see* but if you have a kernel panic, it'd be a lot more useful to actually see it, rather than it being hidden by your frozen X server!
I'm not aware of graphical kernel panics currently being supported but at least it could be done in principle now, AIUI.
KMS also reduces unnecessary modeswitching "to make sure" that you otherwise get, so switching between console and X should be quicker, as should switching between X sessions (fast user switching).
KMS is also what's used by the new bootsplashes, like RedHat's Plymouth (which other distros, e.g.
Mandriva) are also moving towards.
DRM, in this context, is the Direct Rendering Manager and is how GL apps get direct rendering access to the graphics card, in a controlled way.
I don't know so much about that though ;-)The Nvidia open source driver "nv" doesn't support KMS or any 3D.
The Nvidia proprietary driver doesn't support KMS but does support 3D (with good performance).
Many distros have tended to use nv by default, some do ship nvidia though.
Either way, you don't get the nice boot splash and neater terminal switching that a KMS driver would get you.
The Nvidia proprietary driver is good performance-wise but it also tends to lag the open source drivers in terms of features a little; I think Nouveau (at one point?
may not still be true) was aiming to support Xrandr features that Nvidia's did not.
I've also heard that Nvidia's driver has issues with suspend.Because of all this, expanding Nouveau support is a good thing.
Nouveau are also in the process of reverse engineering for 3D support but they have some way to go.
However, I've had the impression that it's getting towards being better than the 2D-only nv driver.
So at *least* it will mean that when installing on your system you can expect a decent boot experience and correctly-working basic 2D graphics, with suspend/resume behaving sensible, etc.
So it could be making life better for users *soon*.
But as 3D support improves, things should get better still.The Linux kernel devs generally take a stance these days that all kernel code ought to be merged into Linus's tree as soon as possible.
It's really rather impressive to see this process working and the kernel devs (mostly) really following through on this.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30418062</id>
	<title>Re:This is great - sort of</title>
	<author>ClosedSource</author>
	<datestamp>1260618720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Because these days it's really, really hard."</p><p>It's always been hard. Every company other than Atari that created video games for the 2600 had to do this (or pay somebody else to do it) because the specs were a trade secret.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Because these days it 's really , really hard .
" It 's always been hard .
Every company other than Atari that created video games for the 2600 had to do this ( or pay somebody else to do it ) because the specs were a trade secret .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Because these days it's really, really hard.
"It's always been hard.
Every company other than Atari that created video games for the 2600 had to do this (or pay somebody else to do it) because the specs were a trade secret.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30404326</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403700</id>
	<title>monolithic kernel</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260554880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>monolithic kernel is monolithic!<br>
Soon 2.6 will have support for the kitchen sink!</htmltext>
<tokenext>monolithic kernel is monolithic !
Soon 2.6 will have support for the kitchen sink !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>monolithic kernel is monolithic!
Soon 2.6 will have support for the kitchen sink!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403512</id>
	<title>Re:Why not just use the Windows driver model..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260554220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Patch please</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Patch please</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Patch please</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403328</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30407734</id>
	<title>Re:Cost of Drivers is a Tax Now?</title>
	<author>omnichad</author>
	<datestamp>1260530280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If I buy a toaster and throw away the box, shouldn't I get reimbursed for the box?  You can only buy what's on the market.  I totally agree with you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If I buy a toaster and throw away the box , should n't I get reimbursed for the box ?
You can only buy what 's on the market .
I totally agree with you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I buy a toaster and throw away the box, shouldn't I get reimbursed for the box?
You can only buy what's on the market.
I totally agree with you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30404012</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403782</id>
	<title>Re:This is great - sort of</title>
	<author>Sir\_Lewk</author>
	<datestamp>1260555120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Video drivers are generally considered the thing most lacking in linux.  Last I heard/tried, USB wifi cards are a nightmare, but besides those, most high-profile hardware is pretty well supported.  You'll always find the odd usb controlled nerf gun turret or whatnot that lacks a driver, but that's not really an issue for most people.</p><p>Furthermore, it is in error to think that people reverse engineering video cards would otherwise spend their time reverse engineering other hardware.  These people do not necessarily specialize in other sorts of hardware.  In linux, more people working on A does not really mean less people work on B.  It's not like there is a manager at the top assigning and moving people around from task to task.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Video drivers are generally considered the thing most lacking in linux .
Last I heard/tried , USB wifi cards are a nightmare , but besides those , most high-profile hardware is pretty well supported .
You 'll always find the odd usb controlled nerf gun turret or whatnot that lacks a driver , but that 's not really an issue for most people.Furthermore , it is in error to think that people reverse engineering video cards would otherwise spend their time reverse engineering other hardware .
These people do not necessarily specialize in other sorts of hardware .
In linux , more people working on A does not really mean less people work on B. It 's not like there is a manager at the top assigning and moving people around from task to task .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Video drivers are generally considered the thing most lacking in linux.
Last I heard/tried, USB wifi cards are a nightmare, but besides those, most high-profile hardware is pretty well supported.
You'll always find the odd usb controlled nerf gun turret or whatnot that lacks a driver, but that's not really an issue for most people.Furthermore, it is in error to think that people reverse engineering video cards would otherwise spend their time reverse engineering other hardware.
These people do not necessarily specialize in other sorts of hardware.
In linux, more people working on A does not really mean less people work on B.  It's not like there is a manager at the top assigning and moving people around from task to task.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403592</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30409664</id>
	<title>Re:Reverse engineering</title>
	<author>martin-boundary</author>
	<datestamp>1260542400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>
You've actually got it backwards, this is indeed proactive. With an open source driver, whenever the Linux kernel (or Xorg etc) changes, the driver can be modified to still
work. With a closed source driver, if change happens, your
driver is effectively bricked.
The problem is that Nvidia isn't here for the longhaul, at least nowhere near as long as open source.
<p>
There are many reasons why Nvidia might stop updating
a driver for a particular card: they might go out of business, they might
refuse to support obsolete cards that they no longer sell, etc.
So over time, even if you still own their hardware, it will stop working at full potential (or at all) with the latest Linux. You'd need to download a newer driver, and if that's no option, you'd need to buy youself a new card, or you'd need to refuse to upgrade your Linux etc.
</p><p>
If you expect your hardware to always work with Linux, then with closed source you need Nvidia to react to all changes that may happen to keep your card working, whereas with an open source driver there's potentially millions of people who can
be persuaded to keep your card working.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 've actually got it backwards , this is indeed proactive .
With an open source driver , whenever the Linux kernel ( or Xorg etc ) changes , the driver can be modified to still work .
With a closed source driver , if change happens , your driver is effectively bricked .
The problem is that Nvidia is n't here for the longhaul , at least nowhere near as long as open source .
There are many reasons why Nvidia might stop updating a driver for a particular card : they might go out of business , they might refuse to support obsolete cards that they no longer sell , etc .
So over time , even if you still own their hardware , it will stop working at full potential ( or at all ) with the latest Linux .
You 'd need to download a newer driver , and if that 's no option , you 'd need to buy youself a new card , or you 'd need to refuse to upgrade your Linux etc .
If you expect your hardware to always work with Linux , then with closed source you need Nvidia to react to all changes that may happen to keep your card working , whereas with an open source driver there 's potentially millions of people who can be persuaded to keep your card working .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
You've actually got it backwards, this is indeed proactive.
With an open source driver, whenever the Linux kernel (or Xorg etc) changes, the driver can be modified to still
work.
With a closed source driver, if change happens, your
driver is effectively bricked.
The problem is that Nvidia isn't here for the longhaul, at least nowhere near as long as open source.
There are many reasons why Nvidia might stop updating
a driver for a particular card: they might go out of business, they might
refuse to support obsolete cards that they no longer sell, etc.
So over time, even if you still own their hardware, it will stop working at full potential (or at all) with the latest Linux.
You'd need to download a newer driver, and if that's no option, you'd need to buy youself a new card, or you'd need to refuse to upgrade your Linux etc.
If you expect your hardware to always work with Linux, then with closed source you need Nvidia to react to all changes that may happen to keep your card working, whereas with an open source driver there's potentially millions of people who can
be persuaded to keep your card working.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403708</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30404268</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare with the other NVidia drive</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260556920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ah, ATI.  Lovely... just lovely memories of ATI under Linux.  Like how it would somehow stutter the visuals on Puzzle Pirates last time I tried them.  Let me repeat that: <b> <i>It would stutter the visuals on a dead-simple 2D sprite-based Java game.</i> </b>  Not some bullet hell, eighty bazillion sprites on the screen, special effects whoring, framebuffer coder's wet dream 2D game.  <i>Puzzle.  Pirates.</i>  One install of an older NVidia card fixed that right up.</p><p>Yes, I know, durr hurr javas slow so thats y it so slow im so funy durrrrrr hurrrrrr.  Cute.  Go fuck yourself.  No video card, nor their drivers, open source or not, should be the cause of even the slightest bit of slowdown when trying to render <i>Puzzle Pirates</i>, of all games.</p><p>I've not touched an ATI card since then under Linux, and I've not had a single video-based problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ah , ATI .
Lovely... just lovely memories of ATI under Linux .
Like how it would somehow stutter the visuals on Puzzle Pirates last time I tried them .
Let me repeat that : It would stutter the visuals on a dead-simple 2D sprite-based Java game .
Not some bullet hell , eighty bazillion sprites on the screen , special effects whoring , framebuffer coder 's wet dream 2D game .
Puzzle. Pirates .
One install of an older NVidia card fixed that right up.Yes , I know , durr hurr javas slow so thats y it so slow im so funy durrrrrr hurrrrrr .
Cute. Go fuck yourself .
No video card , nor their drivers , open source or not , should be the cause of even the slightest bit of slowdown when trying to render Puzzle Pirates , of all games.I 've not touched an ATI card since then under Linux , and I 've not had a single video-based problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ah, ATI.
Lovely... just lovely memories of ATI under Linux.
Like how it would somehow stutter the visuals on Puzzle Pirates last time I tried them.
Let me repeat that:  It would stutter the visuals on a dead-simple 2D sprite-based Java game.
Not some bullet hell, eighty bazillion sprites on the screen, special effects whoring, framebuffer coder's wet dream 2D game.
Puzzle.  Pirates.
One install of an older NVidia card fixed that right up.Yes, I know, durr hurr javas slow so thats y it so slow im so funy durrrrrr hurrrrrr.
Cute.  Go fuck yourself.
No video card, nor their drivers, open source or not, should be the cause of even the slightest bit of slowdown when trying to render Puzzle Pirates, of all games.I've not touched an ATI card since then under Linux, and I've not had a single video-based problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403510</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30407942</id>
	<title>Re:What card to buy today?</title>
	<author>SarahAnnAlien</author>
	<datestamp>1260531360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>As one of the other posters said, buy an older R500 based ATI card. I'm trying this out myself; I ordered a card this week and (hopefully) will find out how well it works with the Radeon driver. But everything I've read suggests it will work pretty well.
<p>
Read more here: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R520#Variants" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R520#Variants</a> [wikipedia.org]
</p><p>
I also ordered a (cheap) R600 (or R700? don't remember...) based card to experiment with or put on the shelf for a few months; people seem to be working quite hard on ironing the bugs out, and those will probably be well supported in the future.
</p><p>
I ordered my R580+ based card from a place called compuvest. It was my first order with them so I can't say whether or not they're worth recommending. They seem to have a lot of generation-ago equipment. Another place to try would be geeks.com, which is where I got the R600 based card.
</p><p>
I'm not sure how well this will work out, but that's what I'm trying...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As one of the other posters said , buy an older R500 based ATI card .
I 'm trying this out myself ; I ordered a card this week and ( hopefully ) will find out how well it works with the Radeon driver .
But everything I 've read suggests it will work pretty well .
Read more here : http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R520 # Variants [ wikipedia.org ] I also ordered a ( cheap ) R600 ( or R700 ?
do n't remember... ) based card to experiment with or put on the shelf for a few months ; people seem to be working quite hard on ironing the bugs out , and those will probably be well supported in the future .
I ordered my R580 + based card from a place called compuvest .
It was my first order with them so I ca n't say whether or not they 're worth recommending .
They seem to have a lot of generation-ago equipment .
Another place to try would be geeks.com , which is where I got the R600 based card .
I 'm not sure how well this will work out , but that 's what I 'm trying.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As one of the other posters said, buy an older R500 based ATI card.
I'm trying this out myself; I ordered a card this week and (hopefully) will find out how well it works with the Radeon driver.
But everything I've read suggests it will work pretty well.
Read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R520#Variants [wikipedia.org]

I also ordered a (cheap) R600 (or R700?
don't remember...) based card to experiment with or put on the shelf for a few months; people seem to be working quite hard on ironing the bugs out, and those will probably be well supported in the future.
I ordered my R580+ based card from a place called compuvest.
It was my first order with them so I can't say whether or not they're worth recommending.
They seem to have a lot of generation-ago equipment.
Another place to try would be geeks.com, which is where I got the R600 based card.
I'm not sure how well this will work out, but that's what I'm trying...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403484</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30405288</id>
	<title>Re:I'm not an Avid Linux User...</title>
	<author>h4rr4r</author>
	<datestamp>1260561300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No that is what wine has meant for ages. Heck, crossover(the pay for version of wine) added l4d2 support the night the game came out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No that is what wine has meant for ages .
Heck , crossover ( the pay for version of wine ) added l4d2 support the night the game came out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No that is what wine has meant for ages.
Heck, crossover(the pay for version of wine) added l4d2 support the night the game came out.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403314</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403818</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare with the other NVidia drive</title>
	<author>zoward</author>
	<datestamp>1260555300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>nVidia can arbitrarily stop supporting old graphics cards at any time. ATI did this with my R600-based laptop chipset; the newest ATI Catalyst linux drivers now longer support my two-year-old laptop.  Since linux  has a smaller user base, it's a "safe" place to cut costs by not having to feature-test against older hardware with every proprietary driver release.  Having an open source driver would prevent you from suddenly becoming unable to use your hardware on newer linux releases.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>nVidia can arbitrarily stop supporting old graphics cards at any time .
ATI did this with my R600-based laptop chipset ; the newest ATI Catalyst linux drivers now longer support my two-year-old laptop .
Since linux has a smaller user base , it 's a " safe " place to cut costs by not having to feature-test against older hardware with every proprietary driver release .
Having an open source driver would prevent you from suddenly becoming unable to use your hardware on newer linux releases .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>nVidia can arbitrarily stop supporting old graphics cards at any time.
ATI did this with my R600-based laptop chipset; the newest ATI Catalyst linux drivers now longer support my two-year-old laptop.
Since linux  has a smaller user base, it's a "safe" place to cut costs by not having to feature-test against older hardware with every proprietary driver release.
Having an open source driver would prevent you from suddenly becoming unable to use your hardware on newer linux releases.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403502</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare with the other NVidia drive</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260554160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm curious about this too.  I've used the official NVidia driver in Linux for many years and never had a problem.  What was the compelling reason to reverse engineer?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm curious about this too .
I 've used the official NVidia driver in Linux for many years and never had a problem .
What was the compelling reason to reverse engineer ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm curious about this too.
I've used the official NVidia driver in Linux for many years and never had a problem.
What was the compelling reason to reverse engineer?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30405670</id>
	<title>Re:Reverse engineering</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260563100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Presumably when NVidia changes their driver architecture (to suit future hardware) won't this all have to be done over from scratch?</p></div><p>New hardware will need updates to the driver (hopefully not "from scratch") but the open source driver is completely independent of nVidia's own driver's architecture.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Presumably when NVidia changes their driver architecture ( to suit future hardware ) wo n't this all have to be done over from scratch ? New hardware will need updates to the driver ( hopefully not " from scratch " ) but the open source driver is completely independent of nVidia 's own driver 's architecture .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Presumably when NVidia changes their driver architecture (to suit future hardware) won't this all have to be done over from scratch?New hardware will need updates to the driver (hopefully not "from scratch") but the open source driver is completely independent of nVidia's own driver's architecture.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403708</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403676</id>
	<title>Re:What card to buy today?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260554760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Pretty much anything from Nvidia. You can go to their web page and check for Linux drivers for chipset of your interest. ATi + Linux usually means problems.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Pretty much anything from Nvidia .
You can go to their web page and check for Linux drivers for chipset of your interest .
ATi + Linux usually means problems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pretty much anything from Nvidia.
You can go to their web page and check for Linux drivers for chipset of your interest.
ATi + Linux usually means problems.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403484</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30406618</id>
	<title>Re:monolithic kernel</title>
	<author>heson</author>
	<datestamp>1260524580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Enjoy your Hurd. An I'll enjoy the sink.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Enjoy your Hurd .
An I 'll enjoy the sink .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Enjoy your Hurd.
An I'll enjoy the sink.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403700</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30414082</id>
	<title>Got burned by adopting early</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1260634560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I got an nVidia GT 240 1GB and it's not supported by even the BETA Linux driver, it works but I'm getting 3d trashing and GLX failures that I wasn't getting with my 9600 GT. In the 180 driver, it wasn't even correctly identified... it seemed slow, but wasn't so crashy. Very odd.</p><p>Anyway, nVidia isn't always the answer. Either way, you have to buy older hardware, not the latest stuff, if you want it to work properly on Linux.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I got an nVidia GT 240 1GB and it 's not supported by even the BETA Linux driver , it works but I 'm getting 3d trashing and GLX failures that I was n't getting with my 9600 GT .
In the 180 driver , it was n't even correctly identified... it seemed slow , but was n't so crashy .
Very odd.Anyway , nVidia is n't always the answer .
Either way , you have to buy older hardware , not the latest stuff , if you want it to work properly on Linux .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I got an nVidia GT 240 1GB and it's not supported by even the BETA Linux driver, it works but I'm getting 3d trashing and GLX failures that I wasn't getting with my 9600 GT.
In the 180 driver, it wasn't even correctly identified... it seemed slow, but wasn't so crashy.
Very odd.Anyway, nVidia isn't always the answer.
Either way, you have to buy older hardware, not the latest stuff, if you want it to work properly on Linux.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30404706</id>
	<title>Re:What card to buy today?</title>
	<author>h4rr4r</author>
	<datestamp>1260558900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>An intel integrated should do the job fine. I have all the wizbang bullshit effects on my dell mini 9 and that has an intel GMA950. I turn them right off an use metacity though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>An intel integrated should do the job fine .
I have all the wizbang bullshit effects on my dell mini 9 and that has an intel GMA950 .
I turn them right off an use metacity though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An intel integrated should do the job fine.
I have all the wizbang bullshit effects on my dell mini 9 and that has an intel GMA950.
I turn them right off an use metacity though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403484</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30409394</id>
	<title>Thank you</title>
	<author>polle404</author>
	<datestamp>1260540600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thank you.</p><p>not much more to say, really.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thank you.not much more to say , really .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thank you.not much more to say, really.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30406952</id>
	<title>Welcome new comer!</title>
	<author>msimm</author>
	<datestamp>1260526080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I love posts like this because it demonstrates a dramatic (and frequent) misunderstanding. The idea seems to be (and I don't mean to fault anyone for this) that there's a great big general pool of Linux/driver developers that get together and decide what to do. We regularly see suggestions (like the one above) directed at how to make better use of this imaginary pool.<br> <br>
But the truth is much of what gets done in terms of development is done by people like yourself, with interests of their own and probably more frequently then you imagine, on their own time. So while the project might not make sense to every possible user, particularly in the terms of some great imaginary directed labor pool, like many open source projects it's intended to scratch the developers own particular itch. And I don't know about you, but when I sit down to program in my free time I like to do something that I'm personally (preferably even passionately) interested in.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I love posts like this because it demonstrates a dramatic ( and frequent ) misunderstanding .
The idea seems to be ( and I do n't mean to fault anyone for this ) that there 's a great big general pool of Linux/driver developers that get together and decide what to do .
We regularly see suggestions ( like the one above ) directed at how to make better use of this imaginary pool .
But the truth is much of what gets done in terms of development is done by people like yourself , with interests of their own and probably more frequently then you imagine , on their own time .
So while the project might not make sense to every possible user , particularly in the terms of some great imaginary directed labor pool , like many open source projects it 's intended to scratch the developers own particular itch .
And I do n't know about you , but when I sit down to program in my free time I like to do something that I 'm personally ( preferably even passionately ) interested in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I love posts like this because it demonstrates a dramatic (and frequent) misunderstanding.
The idea seems to be (and I don't mean to fault anyone for this) that there's a great big general pool of Linux/driver developers that get together and decide what to do.
We regularly see suggestions (like the one above) directed at how to make better use of this imaginary pool.
But the truth is much of what gets done in terms of development is done by people like yourself, with interests of their own and probably more frequently then you imagine, on their own time.
So while the project might not make sense to every possible user, particularly in the terms of some great imaginary directed labor pool, like many open source projects it's intended to scratch the developers own particular itch.
And I don't know about you, but when I sit down to program in my free time I like to do something that I'm personally (preferably even passionately) interested in.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403592</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30405474</id>
	<title>Re:monolithic kernel</title>
	<author>Just Some Guy</author>
	<datestamp>1260562140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And this causes what problems in practice?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And this causes what problems in practice ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And this causes what problems in practice?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403700</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403510</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare with the other NVidia drive</title>
	<author>Idiot with a gun</author>
	<datestamp>1260554220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'll agree with you, they work good, <b>when they work</b>. The problem with the official drivers is that they're a binary blob, thus most distributions (none I've ever seen) ship with them enabled. This is an issue if the default nv driver crashes your machine. Because of this, I'm going with ATI next time, I've heard they're way more Linux friendly now.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll agree with you , they work good , when they work .
The problem with the official drivers is that they 're a binary blob , thus most distributions ( none I 've ever seen ) ship with them enabled .
This is an issue if the default nv driver crashes your machine .
Because of this , I 'm going with ATI next time , I 've heard they 're way more Linux friendly now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll agree with you, they work good, when they work.
The problem with the official drivers is that they're a binary blob, thus most distributions (none I've ever seen) ship with them enabled.
This is an issue if the default nv driver crashes your machine.
Because of this, I'm going with ATI next time, I've heard they're way more Linux friendly now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30405506</id>
	<title>Re:This is great - sort of</title>
	<author>RAMMS+EIN</author>
	<datestamp>1260562320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>``A modern graphics card, for example, is actually a complete computer. It's got RAM, a processor, a bunch of peripherals, a complete miniature operating system... and you don't even know what type of processor it is. A lot of peripherals work like this; a wireless card is typically an ARM processor with some RAM attached on one end to the radio and on the other to an I/O controller that talks to the computer.''</p><p>The big difference here is that we usually think of as a computer typically has enough specifications published that you can program them, and there are really just a couple of flavors. By comparison, even though each wireless network card does pretty much the same things as the next one, they are usually programmed completely differently and we're not told how. We have standards and heaps of documentation when it comes to CPUs, but when it comes to graphics accelerators or wireless network cards, it's a mess of undocumented, proprietary, incompatible interfaces.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>` ` A modern graphics card , for example , is actually a complete computer .
It 's got RAM , a processor , a bunch of peripherals , a complete miniature operating system... and you do n't even know what type of processor it is .
A lot of peripherals work like this ; a wireless card is typically an ARM processor with some RAM attached on one end to the radio and on the other to an I/O controller that talks to the computer .
''The big difference here is that we usually think of as a computer typically has enough specifications published that you can program them , and there are really just a couple of flavors .
By comparison , even though each wireless network card does pretty much the same things as the next one , they are usually programmed completely differently and we 're not told how .
We have standards and heaps of documentation when it comes to CPUs , but when it comes to graphics accelerators or wireless network cards , it 's a mess of undocumented , proprietary , incompatible interfaces .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>``A modern graphics card, for example, is actually a complete computer.
It's got RAM, a processor, a bunch of peripherals, a complete miniature operating system... and you don't even know what type of processor it is.
A lot of peripherals work like this; a wireless card is typically an ARM processor with some RAM attached on one end to the radio and on the other to an I/O controller that talks to the computer.
''The big difference here is that we usually think of as a computer typically has enough specifications published that you can program them, and there are really just a couple of flavors.
By comparison, even though each wireless network card does pretty much the same things as the next one, they are usually programmed completely differently and we're not told how.
We have standards and heaps of documentation when it comes to CPUs, but when it comes to graphics accelerators or wireless network cards, it's a mess of undocumented, proprietary, incompatible interfaces.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30404326</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403884</id>
	<title>Re:I'm not an Avid Linux User...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260555600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Linux already has a closed source driver from Nvidia that works pretty damn well. The problem has never been in the drivers, it's in the games being compiled for Windows and Windows-specific libraries.</p><p>That's why cool people compile Linux versions of their games. World of Goo and the Penny Arcade game both have Linux versions IIRC.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Linux already has a closed source driver from Nvidia that works pretty damn well .
The problem has never been in the drivers , it 's in the games being compiled for Windows and Windows-specific libraries.That 's why cool people compile Linux versions of their games .
World of Goo and the Penny Arcade game both have Linux versions IIRC .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Linux already has a closed source driver from Nvidia that works pretty damn well.
The problem has never been in the drivers, it's in the games being compiled for Windows and Windows-specific libraries.That's why cool people compile Linux versions of their games.
World of Goo and the Penny Arcade game both have Linux versions IIRC.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403314</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30406346</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare with the other NVidia drive</title>
	<author>bfields</author>
	<datestamp>1260523440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Because of this, I'm going with ATI next time, I've heard they're way more Linux friendly now."</p><p>I haven't been following this so closely, but my impression was that ATI is doing a better job of working with the community at this point--giving adequate access to specs and so on, as opposed to just dropping a binary driver in our laps--which means in months and years to come ATI is likely to work better.  But for now it may still have catching up to do.</p><p>From my limited experience in recent years, Intel hardware is the only stuff with first-class open-source support.  (But of course the best drivers in the world don't help if their hardware isn't good enough to run your game.  I wouldn't know--for compiz, watching DVD's, and the occasional game of Tuxracer, the Intel stuff is fine.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Because of this , I 'm going with ATI next time , I 've heard they 're way more Linux friendly now .
" I have n't been following this so closely , but my impression was that ATI is doing a better job of working with the community at this point--giving adequate access to specs and so on , as opposed to just dropping a binary driver in our laps--which means in months and years to come ATI is likely to work better .
But for now it may still have catching up to do.From my limited experience in recent years , Intel hardware is the only stuff with first-class open-source support .
( But of course the best drivers in the world do n't help if their hardware is n't good enough to run your game .
I would n't know--for compiz , watching DVD 's , and the occasional game of Tuxracer , the Intel stuff is fine .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Because of this, I'm going with ATI next time, I've heard they're way more Linux friendly now.
"I haven't been following this so closely, but my impression was that ATI is doing a better job of working with the community at this point--giving adequate access to specs and so on, as opposed to just dropping a binary driver in our laps--which means in months and years to come ATI is likely to work better.
But for now it may still have catching up to do.From my limited experience in recent years, Intel hardware is the only stuff with first-class open-source support.
(But of course the best drivers in the world don't help if their hardware isn't good enough to run your game.
I wouldn't know--for compiz, watching DVD's, and the occasional game of Tuxracer, the Intel stuff is fine.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403510</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30412268</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare with the other NVidia drive</title>
	<author>Eunuchswear</author>
	<datestamp>1260615120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The "official" Nvidia driver doesn't work in IBM 370 based systems.</p><p>Not all the world is x86 you know.</p><p>Also there's this little idea of "Freedom" (or "Openness" if you're an ESR fan).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The " official " Nvidia driver does n't work in IBM 370 based systems.Not all the world is x86 you know.Also there 's this little idea of " Freedom " ( or " Openness " if you 're an ESR fan ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The "official" Nvidia driver doesn't work in IBM 370 based systems.Not all the world is x86 you know.Also there's this little idea of "Freedom" (or "Openness" if you're an ESR fan).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30405104</id>
	<title>Re:What card to buy today?</title>
	<author>GameboyRMH</author>
	<datestamp>1260560520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Seconded. In my experience onboard Intel cards have been the least troublesome by a long shot. Usually they work fine with no tweaking, 3D acceleration and all.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Seconded .
In my experience onboard Intel cards have been the least troublesome by a long shot .
Usually they work fine with no tweaking , 3D acceleration and all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seconded.
In my experience onboard Intel cards have been the least troublesome by a long shot.
Usually they work fine with no tweaking, 3D acceleration and all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403890</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30404460</id>
	<title>You mean ForkBSD</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260557760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why don't they just fork it like they do EVERYTHING ELSE so that they can be ideologically licensoligically "pure"?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do n't they just fork it like they do EVERYTHING ELSE so that they can be ideologically licensoligically " pure " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why don't they just fork it like they do EVERYTHING ELSE so that they can be ideologically licensoligically "pure"?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403760</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403464</id>
	<title>Is linus being an arsehole here?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260554100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is linus being an arsehole here? If he's complaining about RH not getting it done, why doesn't he do it himself? If he's not got the time, then it's going to be earlier whenever RH get it done than if it were left to him, so where's the problem.</p><p>And why is this reverse engineering by watching what the driver does over the wire OK but a heinous attack on the Kernel Development when done by Tridge reverse engineering the wire protocol of BitKeeper?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is linus being an arsehole here ?
If he 's complaining about RH not getting it done , why does n't he do it himself ?
If he 's not got the time , then it 's going to be earlier whenever RH get it done than if it were left to him , so where 's the problem.And why is this reverse engineering by watching what the driver does over the wire OK but a heinous attack on the Kernel Development when done by Tridge reverse engineering the wire protocol of BitKeeper ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is linus being an arsehole here?
If he's complaining about RH not getting it done, why doesn't he do it himself?
If he's not got the time, then it's going to be earlier whenever RH get it done than if it were left to him, so where's the problem.And why is this reverse engineering by watching what the driver does over the wire OK but a heinous attack on the Kernel Development when done by Tridge reverse engineering the wire protocol of BitKeeper?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403898</id>
	<title>Re:What card to buy today?</title>
	<author>socrplayr813</author>
	<datestamp>1260555660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you're against closed drivers, all I will say is good luck.</p><p>If you're okay with using proprietary drivers, any Nvidia card should work fine.  If you don't need fancy games or similar, the run-of-the-mill $50 cards will be plenty.</p><p>I know anecdotes are not evidence, but I haven't had any issues in the last 2 years or so getting Nvidia cards to work on my personal computers (three separate machines).  My one ATI machine though, still barely manages 2d and crashes if I install the proprietary driver.  I've heard and read many similar stories.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're against closed drivers , all I will say is good luck.If you 're okay with using proprietary drivers , any Nvidia card should work fine .
If you do n't need fancy games or similar , the run-of-the-mill $ 50 cards will be plenty.I know anecdotes are not evidence , but I have n't had any issues in the last 2 years or so getting Nvidia cards to work on my personal computers ( three separate machines ) .
My one ATI machine though , still barely manages 2d and crashes if I install the proprietary driver .
I 've heard and read many similar stories .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're against closed drivers, all I will say is good luck.If you're okay with using proprietary drivers, any Nvidia card should work fine.
If you don't need fancy games or similar, the run-of-the-mill $50 cards will be plenty.I know anecdotes are not evidence, but I haven't had any issues in the last 2 years or so getting Nvidia cards to work on my personal computers (three separate machines).
My one ATI machine though, still barely manages 2d and crashes if I install the proprietary driver.
I've heard and read many similar stories.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403484</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403628</id>
	<title>Re:What card to buy today?</title>
	<author>Sir\_Lewk</author>
	<datestamp>1260554640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you need/want to use a Free driver, get an older ATI card.  I have a card in the R500 series and the Free 'radeon' driver works wonderfully for what I ask from it (urban terror and mplayer).  Anything up to the R500's have good support atm, the R600/700 support is getting there...</p><p>If you don't care about that, get an Nvidia card and use the non-Free driver.  This option will also get you the best preformance.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you need/want to use a Free driver , get an older ATI card .
I have a card in the R500 series and the Free 'radeon ' driver works wonderfully for what I ask from it ( urban terror and mplayer ) .
Anything up to the R500 's have good support atm , the R600/700 support is getting there...If you do n't care about that , get an Nvidia card and use the non-Free driver .
This option will also get you the best preformance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you need/want to use a Free driver, get an older ATI card.
I have a card in the R500 series and the Free 'radeon' driver works wonderfully for what I ask from it (urban terror and mplayer).
Anything up to the R500's have good support atm, the R600/700 support is getting there...If you don't care about that, get an Nvidia card and use the non-Free driver.
This option will also get you the best preformance.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403484</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30407180</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare with the other NVidia drive</title>
	<author>omnichad</author>
	<datestamp>1260527040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'll be the 30th person to chime in and say that I just threw out another ATI card on a Linux Media Center and bought an NVIDIA card.  You don't want to go anywhere near ATI.  Especially if you're hooking the card up to a TV that gives bad EDID data.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll be the 30th person to chime in and say that I just threw out another ATI card on a Linux Media Center and bought an NVIDIA card .
You do n't want to go anywhere near ATI .
Especially if you 're hooking the card up to a TV that gives bad EDID data .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll be the 30th person to chime in and say that I just threw out another ATI card on a Linux Media Center and bought an NVIDIA card.
You don't want to go anywhere near ATI.
Especially if you're hooking the card up to a TV that gives bad EDID data.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403510</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30404362</id>
	<title>Re:monolithic kernel</title>
	<author>josh61980</author>
	<datestamp>1260557340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This needs a motivational poster.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This needs a motivational poster .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This needs a motivational poster.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403700</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30405998</id>
	<title>Re:monolithic kernel</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260564780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Soon? I thought support for kitchen sinks has been in the kernel since 2.2.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Soon ?
I thought support for kitchen sinks has been in the kernel since 2.2 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Soon?
I thought support for kitchen sinks has been in the kernel since 2.2.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403700</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403986</id>
	<title>Re:What card to buy today?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260556020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Using a 9500GT from NVidia which was plug&amp;play, including Compiz support at full screen resolution on two screens. Apt-get install and you're off toggling Compiz settings.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Using a 9500GT from NVidia which was plug&amp;play , including Compiz support at full screen resolution on two screens .
Apt-get install and you 're off toggling Compiz settings .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Using a 9500GT from NVidia which was plug&amp;play, including Compiz support at full screen resolution on two screens.
Apt-get install and you're off toggling Compiz settings.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403484</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30404120</id>
	<title>Re:What card to buy today?</title>
	<author>LWATCDR</author>
	<datestamp>1260556440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have an nVidia card and use the nVidia closed drivers and have no real issues.<br>If you are getting a new PC and FOSS purity is important to you then get Intel graphics and you will be good to go.<br>I have heard good things about ATI but I have no real experience with them myself..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have an nVidia card and use the nVidia closed drivers and have no real issues.If you are getting a new PC and FOSS purity is important to you then get Intel graphics and you will be good to go.I have heard good things about ATI but I have no real experience with them myself. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have an nVidia card and use the nVidia closed drivers and have no real issues.If you are getting a new PC and FOSS purity is important to you then get Intel graphics and you will be good to go.I have heard good things about ATI but I have no real experience with them myself..</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403484</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403708</id>
	<title>Reverse engineering</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260554940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Reverse engineering a complete video driver is an impressive feat.  However it is a reactive process and not a proactive process.  Presumably when NVidia changes their driver architecture (to suit future hardware) won't this all have to be done over from scratch?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Reverse engineering a complete video driver is an impressive feat .
However it is a reactive process and not a proactive process .
Presumably when NVidia changes their driver architecture ( to suit future hardware ) wo n't this all have to be done over from scratch ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Reverse engineering a complete video driver is an impressive feat.
However it is a reactive process and not a proactive process.
Presumably when NVidia changes their driver architecture (to suit future hardware) won't this all have to be done over from scratch?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30404938</id>
	<title>Re:What card to buy today?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260559860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Anything nVidia. ATI is dead to me. I have three heads running on KDE4/Fedora 12 at work (2 on GeForce 6200LE and 1 on GeForce 6150SE) and an older GeForce 7600GT in my desktop at home. All of them work great. This open nv driver seems like a waste of time to me, because it doesn't have support from nVidia and therefore is likely to never work 100\% properly on 100\% of the boards.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anything nVidia .
ATI is dead to me .
I have three heads running on KDE4/Fedora 12 at work ( 2 on GeForce 6200LE and 1 on GeForce 6150SE ) and an older GeForce 7600GT in my desktop at home .
All of them work great .
This open nv driver seems like a waste of time to me , because it does n't have support from nVidia and therefore is likely to never work 100 \ % properly on 100 \ % of the boards .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anything nVidia.
ATI is dead to me.
I have three heads running on KDE4/Fedora 12 at work (2 on GeForce 6200LE and 1 on GeForce 6150SE) and an older GeForce 7600GT in my desktop at home.
All of them work great.
This open nv driver seems like a waste of time to me, because it doesn't have support from nVidia and therefore is likely to never work 100\% properly on 100\% of the boards.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403484</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30405856</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare with the other NVidia drive</title>
	<author>bjourne</author>
	<datestamp>1260563940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They are seen as more Linuxfriendly because they have released <a href="http://developer.amd.com/documentation/Pages/default.aspx" title="amd.com">the specifications</a> [amd.com] for their 3d chipsets which Nvidia hasn't. Unfortunately, and contrary to what slashdot-commenters believed, that hasn't lead to someone creating high quality free drivers for ATI cards.</htmltext>
<tokenext>They are seen as more Linuxfriendly because they have released the specifications [ amd.com ] for their 3d chipsets which Nvidia has n't .
Unfortunately , and contrary to what slashdot-commenters believed , that has n't lead to someone creating high quality free drivers for ATI cards .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They are seen as more Linuxfriendly because they have released the specifications [amd.com] for their 3d chipsets which Nvidia hasn't.
Unfortunately, and contrary to what slashdot-commenters believed, that hasn't lead to someone creating high quality free drivers for ATI cards.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403740</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30404950</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare with the other NVidia drive</title>
	<author>GameboyRMH</author>
	<datestamp>1260559920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm thinking of going with Intel on my Linux machines from now on. the only problem is that the TV-out on laptops is a crapshoot (at least with some of the older 9xx adapters, in my experience). Apart from the laptop TV-out issues I've only had one Intel adapter not work perfectly right off the bat - on a server running CentOS.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm thinking of going with Intel on my Linux machines from now on .
the only problem is that the TV-out on laptops is a crapshoot ( at least with some of the older 9xx adapters , in my experience ) .
Apart from the laptop TV-out issues I 've only had one Intel adapter not work perfectly right off the bat - on a server running CentOS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm thinking of going with Intel on my Linux machines from now on.
the only problem is that the TV-out on laptops is a crapshoot (at least with some of the older 9xx adapters, in my experience).
Apart from the laptop TV-out issues I've only had one Intel adapter not work perfectly right off the bat - on a server running CentOS.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403740</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30416596</id>
	<title>Re:What about BSD?</title>
	<author>mvdwege</author>
	<datestamp>1260651540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Since when is it the responsibility of Linux driver writers to port their drivers to a different kernel?</p><p>The source is out there. If the BSD folks want to have open-source drivers, let them port it. They are the ones who have the need and the knowledge of their kernel architecture after all.</p><p>
Mart</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Since when is it the responsibility of Linux driver writers to port their drivers to a different kernel ? The source is out there .
If the BSD folks want to have open-source drivers , let them port it .
They are the ones who have the need and the knowledge of their kernel architecture after all .
Mart</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since when is it the responsibility of Linux driver writers to port their drivers to a different kernel?The source is out there.
If the BSD folks want to have open-source drivers, let them port it.
They are the ones who have the need and the knowledge of their kernel architecture after all.
Mart</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403760</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30404138</id>
	<title>Re:What card to buy today?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260556560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's a shame that Intel don't make add-on cards, their integrated graphics, while not being killer performers, are very solid for 3d(compiz easily and openarena is playable at low res) in my netbook.</p><p>I'd suggest just grabbing yourself an nvidia, something cheap like the 6200 would do for basic, sensible, work stuff. They're good cards and the binary drivers are pretty solid.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's a shame that Intel do n't make add-on cards , their integrated graphics , while not being killer performers , are very solid for 3d ( compiz easily and openarena is playable at low res ) in my netbook.I 'd suggest just grabbing yourself an nvidia , something cheap like the 6200 would do for basic , sensible , work stuff .
They 're good cards and the binary drivers are pretty solid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's a shame that Intel don't make add-on cards, their integrated graphics, while not being killer performers, are very solid for 3d(compiz easily and openarena is playable at low res) in my netbook.I'd suggest just grabbing yourself an nvidia, something cheap like the 6200 would do for basic, sensible, work stuff.
They're good cards and the binary drivers are pretty solid.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403484</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30419734</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare with the other NVidia drive</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260637320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>They're certainly nowhere near as Linux-friendly as Nvidia.</p></div><p>NV is Linux-friendly?  Does that mean MS is merely 'Linux-neutral'?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>No offense, but I think your definition of what a friend is... needs a little work.</p><p>As for AMD-ATI, give them another year or so, and check their open driver again.  I'm sure that you'll be pleasantly surprised then (I'm using that in-development open driver now).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>They 're certainly nowhere near as Linux-friendly as Nvidia.NV is Linux-friendly ?
Does that mean MS is merely 'Linux-neutral ' ?
: ) No offense , but I think your definition of what a friend is... needs a little work.As for AMD-ATI , give them another year or so , and check their open driver again .
I 'm sure that you 'll be pleasantly surprised then ( I 'm using that in-development open driver now ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They're certainly nowhere near as Linux-friendly as Nvidia.NV is Linux-friendly?
Does that mean MS is merely 'Linux-neutral'?
:)No offense, but I think your definition of what a friend is... needs a little work.As for AMD-ATI, give them another year or so, and check their open driver again.
I'm sure that you'll be pleasantly surprised then (I'm using that in-development open driver now).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403740</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30404114</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare with the other NVidia drive</title>
	<author>Tetsujin</author>
	<datestamp>1260556440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I'll agree with you, they work good, <b>when they work</b>. The problem with the official drivers is that they're a binary blob, thus most distributions (none I've ever seen) ship with them enabled. This is an issue if the default nv driver crashes your machine. Because of this, I'm going with ATI next time, I've heard they're way more Linux friendly now.</p></div><p>For what it's worth: I decided to go the ATI route this time around.  I mostly use it for running Blender.  I've been pretty happy with it overall - but I wouldn't say I've found the drivers to be particularly more or less troublesome than the NVidia ones.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll agree with you , they work good , when they work .
The problem with the official drivers is that they 're a binary blob , thus most distributions ( none I 've ever seen ) ship with them enabled .
This is an issue if the default nv driver crashes your machine .
Because of this , I 'm going with ATI next time , I 've heard they 're way more Linux friendly now.For what it 's worth : I decided to go the ATI route this time around .
I mostly use it for running Blender .
I 've been pretty happy with it overall - but I would n't say I 've found the drivers to be particularly more or less troublesome than the NVidia ones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll agree with you, they work good, when they work.
The problem with the official drivers is that they're a binary blob, thus most distributions (none I've ever seen) ship with them enabled.
This is an issue if the default nv driver crashes your machine.
Because of this, I'm going with ATI next time, I've heard they're way more Linux friendly now.For what it's worth: I decided to go the ATI route this time around.
I mostly use it for running Blender.
I've been pretty happy with it overall - but I wouldn't say I've found the drivers to be particularly more or less troublesome than the NVidia ones.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403510</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30411010</id>
	<title>Re:monolithic kernel</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260552780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are you really complaining about device support?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are you really complaining about device support ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are you really complaining about device support?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403700</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30407894</id>
	<title>Re:What card to buy today?</title>
	<author>boa</author>
	<datestamp>1260531180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>ATI Radeon 4890 with binary ATI driverse works well for me under Ubuntu 9.10.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>ATI Radeon 4890 with binary ATI driverse works well for me under Ubuntu 9.10 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ATI Radeon 4890 with binary ATI driverse works well for me under Ubuntu 9.10.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403484</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403912</id>
	<title>Re:What card to buy today?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260555720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would (and in fact, I did with my Thinkpad x200 and my recent workstation) buy an intel graphics card (or rather a mainboard with the integrated graphics chip, such as the GM45).</p><p>They do have free drivers which work just fine, they don't use much power, they support KMS and they have 3D acceleration (not the best for gaming, but for your "smooth compositing in KDE" it should be enough).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would ( and in fact , I did with my Thinkpad x200 and my recent workstation ) buy an intel graphics card ( or rather a mainboard with the integrated graphics chip , such as the GM45 ) .They do have free drivers which work just fine , they do n't use much power , they support KMS and they have 3D acceleration ( not the best for gaming , but for your " smooth compositing in KDE " it should be enough ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would (and in fact, I did with my Thinkpad x200 and my recent workstation) buy an intel graphics card (or rather a mainboard with the integrated graphics chip, such as the GM45).They do have free drivers which work just fine, they don't use much power, they support KMS and they have 3D acceleration (not the best for gaming, but for your "smooth compositing in KDE" it should be enough).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403484</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403626</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare with the other NVidia drive</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260554640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hahahahahahahahahahahah!</p><p>Oh god that's funny</p><p>My computers have ATI<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... their drivers make me cry. Once I had the binary driver working. Then I upgraded. It stopped working. (For i = 1:20, repeat the last two steps). Then they said my year old IGP card was too old, and stop supporting it with new driver releases.</p><p>Open source stuff works OK, but not as good for hi-def video.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hahahahahahahahahahahah ! Oh god that 's funnyMy computers have ATI ... their drivers make me cry .
Once I had the binary driver working .
Then I upgraded .
It stopped working .
( For i = 1 : 20 , repeat the last two steps ) .
Then they said my year old IGP card was too old , and stop supporting it with new driver releases.Open source stuff works OK , but not as good for hi-def video .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hahahahahahahahahahahah!Oh god that's funnyMy computers have ATI ... their drivers make me cry.
Once I had the binary driver working.
Then I upgraded.
It stopped working.
(For i = 1:20, repeat the last two steps).
Then they said my year old IGP card was too old, and stop supporting it with new driver releases.Open source stuff works OK, but not as good for hi-def video.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403510</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403484</id>
	<title>What card to buy today?</title>
	<author>Just Some Guy</author>
	<datestamp>1260554160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My Dell at work has an ATI RV635 card. You know: the one that might, someday, support 3D but hasn't yet in the couple of years it's been out? I switched from Ubuntu Karmic to Fedora Core 12 a couple of weeks ago to see if the experimental drivers worked, but ended up with a non-working X.</p><p>If I want to buy a card that has working accelerated 3D today - not next week, not "maybe if I download a hack from North Korea that might work or might catch fire" - so I can do basic stuff like get smooth compositing in KDE, what should I get? Again, this is going into my computer at work, so $500 gaming cards are right out. I'm positive I can get the hardware guy to order a reasonably priced card for me (and another for himself) if it'll work on Linux, though.</p><p>BTW, let me preemptively say that I'm not gonna Google it. There are 5,000,000 outdated and spurious reports. I'd <em>much</em> rather discuss it with a group of peers than try to decode what some kid in Sri Lanka came up with.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My Dell at work has an ATI RV635 card .
You know : the one that might , someday , support 3D but has n't yet in the couple of years it 's been out ?
I switched from Ubuntu Karmic to Fedora Core 12 a couple of weeks ago to see if the experimental drivers worked , but ended up with a non-working X.If I want to buy a card that has working accelerated 3D today - not next week , not " maybe if I download a hack from North Korea that might work or might catch fire " - so I can do basic stuff like get smooth compositing in KDE , what should I get ?
Again , this is going into my computer at work , so $ 500 gaming cards are right out .
I 'm positive I can get the hardware guy to order a reasonably priced card for me ( and another for himself ) if it 'll work on Linux , though.BTW , let me preemptively say that I 'm not gon na Google it .
There are 5,000,000 outdated and spurious reports .
I 'd much rather discuss it with a group of peers than try to decode what some kid in Sri Lanka came up with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My Dell at work has an ATI RV635 card.
You know: the one that might, someday, support 3D but hasn't yet in the couple of years it's been out?
I switched from Ubuntu Karmic to Fedora Core 12 a couple of weeks ago to see if the experimental drivers worked, but ended up with a non-working X.If I want to buy a card that has working accelerated 3D today - not next week, not "maybe if I download a hack from North Korea that might work or might catch fire" - so I can do basic stuff like get smooth compositing in KDE, what should I get?
Again, this is going into my computer at work, so $500 gaming cards are right out.
I'm positive I can get the hardware guy to order a reasonably priced card for me (and another for himself) if it'll work on Linux, though.BTW, let me preemptively say that I'm not gonna Google it.
There are 5,000,000 outdated and spurious reports.
I'd much rather discuss it with a group of peers than try to decode what some kid in Sri Lanka came up with.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30410778</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare with the other NVidia drive</title>
	<author>Draek</author>
	<datestamp>1260551160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>ATI's closed-source driver is Hell on Earth. The one that shipped with Ubuntu 9.04 caused the first crash I had ever seen of a Linux machine not caused by hardware problems *five* minutes after first use, and even the latest ones still have problems playing full-screen video.</p><p>The open-source drivers on the other hand are reliable, solid, and even support 3D acceleration in many (though not all) chips. The only problem is that it's development is pretty fast so if you don't run a rolling release distro ala Arch or Gentoo, you end up reading about lots of cool features you can't try 'til your distro bothers with making a new release.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>ATI 's closed-source driver is Hell on Earth .
The one that shipped with Ubuntu 9.04 caused the first crash I had ever seen of a Linux machine not caused by hardware problems * five * minutes after first use , and even the latest ones still have problems playing full-screen video.The open-source drivers on the other hand are reliable , solid , and even support 3D acceleration in many ( though not all ) chips .
The only problem is that it 's development is pretty fast so if you do n't run a rolling release distro ala Arch or Gentoo , you end up reading about lots of cool features you ca n't try 'til your distro bothers with making a new release .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ATI's closed-source driver is Hell on Earth.
The one that shipped with Ubuntu 9.04 caused the first crash I had ever seen of a Linux machine not caused by hardware problems *five* minutes after first use, and even the latest ones still have problems playing full-screen video.The open-source drivers on the other hand are reliable, solid, and even support 3D acceleration in many (though not all) chips.
The only problem is that it's development is pretty fast so if you don't run a rolling release distro ala Arch or Gentoo, you end up reading about lots of cool features you can't try 'til your distro bothers with making a new release.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403740</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403416</id>
	<title>How does it compare with the other NVidia drivers?</title>
	<author>Lord Lode</author>
	<datestamp>1260553980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm a Linux user using the official binary NVidia drivers, they work good - very good even, many modern Windows games work in Wine without any performance loss.</p><p>How do the Nouveau Nvidia drivers compare to the official ones? Do they have the same performance, no little annoying bugs or differences, etc...?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm a Linux user using the official binary NVidia drivers , they work good - very good even , many modern Windows games work in Wine without any performance loss.How do the Nouveau Nvidia drivers compare to the official ones ?
Do they have the same performance , no little annoying bugs or differences , etc... ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm a Linux user using the official binary NVidia drivers, they work good - very good even, many modern Windows games work in Wine without any performance loss.How do the Nouveau Nvidia drivers compare to the official ones?
Do they have the same performance, no little annoying bugs or differences, etc...?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30407706</id>
	<title>Re:Reverse engineering</title>
	<author>Lemming Mark</author>
	<datestamp>1260530100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd have said the hardest part is reverse engineering how to talk to the hardware.  If new hardware comes out they'll have to reverse engineer the new features / changes in that but they shouldn't have to start again from scratch.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd have said the hardest part is reverse engineering how to talk to the hardware .
If new hardware comes out they 'll have to reverse engineer the new features / changes in that but they should n't have to start again from scratch .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd have said the hardest part is reverse engineering how to talk to the hardware.
If new hardware comes out they'll have to reverse engineer the new features / changes in that but they shouldn't have to start again from scratch.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403708</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30404360</id>
	<title>Re:What card to buy today?</title>
	<author>endoftheroadmatt</author>
	<datestamp>1260557340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you're looking for a specific card, this is in my office Dell Optiplex workstation, I think it's an EVGA, it was ~$50 at the time.
<br>
<br>
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation GeForce 8600 GT (rev a1)
<br>
<br>
Debian Lenny with nvidia debs from non-free, dual 19 inch DVI monitors</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're looking for a specific card , this is in my office Dell Optiplex workstation , I think it 's an EVGA , it was ~ $ 50 at the time .
01 : 00.0 VGA compatible controller : nVidia Corporation GeForce 8600 GT ( rev a1 ) Debian Lenny with nvidia debs from non-free , dual 19 inch DVI monitors</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're looking for a specific card, this is in my office Dell Optiplex workstation, I think it's an EVGA, it was ~$50 at the time.
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation GeForce 8600 GT (rev a1)


Debian Lenny with nvidia debs from non-free, dual 19 inch DVI monitors</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403484</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403916</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare with the other NVidia drive</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260555720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Closed components in the ecosystem slow down development and make everything more difficult for us free software developers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Closed components in the ecosystem slow down development and make everything more difficult for us free software developers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Closed components in the ecosystem slow down development and make everything more difficult for us free software developers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30404374</id>
	<title>They're not</title>
	<author>VMaN</author>
	<datestamp>1260557400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Believe me, I've had nothing but headaches with my Radeon 3650 mobility, and being a laptop, I'll have to live with it.</p><p>But for the foreseeable future, any ATI chip in a laptop is a dealbreaker</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Believe me , I 've had nothing but headaches with my Radeon 3650 mobility , and being a laptop , I 'll have to live with it.But for the foreseeable future , any ATI chip in a laptop is a dealbreaker</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Believe me, I've had nothing but headaches with my Radeon 3650 mobility, and being a laptop, I'll have to live with it.But for the foreseeable future, any ATI chip in a laptop is a dealbreaker</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403510</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30406442</id>
	<title>Re:This is great - sort of</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260523800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You'll always find the odd usb controlled nerf gun turret or whatnot that lacks a driver, but that's not really an issue for most people.</p></div><p>Actually, there's software for that now.</p><p>http://blog.taragana.com/index.php/archive/how-to-control-usb-missile-launcher-on-linux/</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You 'll always find the odd usb controlled nerf gun turret or whatnot that lacks a driver , but that 's not really an issue for most people.Actually , there 's software for that now.http : //blog.taragana.com/index.php/archive/how-to-control-usb-missile-launcher-on-linux/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You'll always find the odd usb controlled nerf gun turret or whatnot that lacks a driver, but that's not really an issue for most people.Actually, there's software for that now.http://blog.taragana.com/index.php/archive/how-to-control-usb-missile-launcher-on-linux/
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403782</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30406702</id>
	<title>ENOUGH about "copyrighted" work!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260525000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's ALL "copyrighted" at least in the US. If I write some screed it is "copyrighted." LINUX IS PROTECTED BY COPYRIGHT. Anything GPL IS PROTECTED BY COPYRIGHT. STOP confusing "copyright" with "proprietary" or "non GPL" it does nothing but cloud the issue further in the mind of an ignorant public that believes you are only protected by copyright if you're a giant corporation or a slave to one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's ALL " copyrighted " at least in the US .
If I write some screed it is " copyrighted .
" LINUX IS PROTECTED BY COPYRIGHT .
Anything GPL IS PROTECTED BY COPYRIGHT .
STOP confusing " copyright " with " proprietary " or " non GPL " it does nothing but cloud the issue further in the mind of an ignorant public that believes you are only protected by copyright if you 're a giant corporation or a slave to one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's ALL "copyrighted" at least in the US.
If I write some screed it is "copyrighted.
" LINUX IS PROTECTED BY COPYRIGHT.
Anything GPL IS PROTECTED BY COPYRIGHT.
STOP confusing "copyright" with "proprietary" or "non GPL" it does nothing but cloud the issue further in the mind of an ignorant public that believes you are only protected by copyright if you're a giant corporation or a slave to one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403376</id>
	<title>Re:Why not just use the Windows driver model..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260553800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Can be done, at the cost of performance.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Can be done , at the cost of performance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can be done, at the cost of performance.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403328</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30405224</id>
	<title>Re:This is great - sort of</title>
	<author>myrdos2</author>
	<datestamp>1260560940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Because reverse-engineering is very hard and complaining is very easy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Because reverse-engineering is very hard and complaining is very easy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because reverse-engineering is very hard and complaining is very easy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403592</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403958</id>
	<title>Re:I'm not an Avid Linux User...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260555900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Now if we could just get a stable nVidia driver in Windows, we'll be set.</p><p>-JJS</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Now if we could just get a stable nVidia driver in Windows , we 'll be set.-JJS</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now if we could just get a stable nVidia driver in Windows, we'll be set.-JJS</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403314</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403740</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare with the other NVidia drive</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260555000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've heard some absolutely nightmarish stories about getting ATI cards to work properly in Linux and they haven't gotten much better.  In the most recent releases, they may have even gotten worse.</p><p>They might be more Linux-friendly now than they were in the past, but that doesn't make them good.  They're certainly nowhere near as Linux-friendly as Nvidia.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've heard some absolutely nightmarish stories about getting ATI cards to work properly in Linux and they have n't gotten much better .
In the most recent releases , they may have even gotten worse.They might be more Linux-friendly now than they were in the past , but that does n't make them good .
They 're certainly nowhere near as Linux-friendly as Nvidia .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've heard some absolutely nightmarish stories about getting ATI cards to work properly in Linux and they haven't gotten much better.
In the most recent releases, they may have even gotten worse.They might be more Linux-friendly now than they were in the past, but that doesn't make them good.
They're certainly nowhere near as Linux-friendly as Nvidia.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403510</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30404598</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare with the other NVidia drive</title>
	<author>gmack</author>
	<datestamp>1260558420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have had more luck now that the Open Source ATI driver added 3D accel support for my card.  The official ATI drivers suck badly with barley working 32 bit drivers and mostly useless 64 bit support.  The open source drivers actually make me like using my Dell Vostro again and it's actually to a point where I would rather use ATI than NVIDIA.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have had more luck now that the Open Source ATI driver added 3D accel support for my card .
The official ATI drivers suck badly with barley working 32 bit drivers and mostly useless 64 bit support .
The open source drivers actually make me like using my Dell Vostro again and it 's actually to a point where I would rather use ATI than NVIDIA .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have had more luck now that the Open Source ATI driver added 3D accel support for my card.
The official ATI drivers suck badly with barley working 32 bit drivers and mostly useless 64 bit support.
The open source drivers actually make me like using my Dell Vostro again and it's actually to a point where I would rather use ATI than NVIDIA.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_11_1556237.30403740</parent>
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