<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_12_04_1658230</id>
	<title>Salon.com Editor Looks Back At Paywalls</title>
	<author>ScuttleMonkey</author>
	<datestamp>1259915400000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>Techdirt pointed out an <a href="http://techdirt.com/articles/20091203/0906067178.shtml">interesting retrospective by Scott Rosenberg</a>, former managing editor of Salon.com, about their <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/dec/03/memories-paywall-pioneer">experiments with paywalls</a> and how repercussions can last a lot longer than some might expect.  <i>"More important, by this point the public was, understandably, thoroughly confused about how to get to read Salon content. It took many years for our traffic to begin to grow again. Paywalls are psychological as much as navigational, and it's a lot easier to put them up than to take them down. Once web users get it in their head that your site is 'closed' to them, if you ever change your mind and want them to come back, it's extremely difficult to get that word out."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Techdirt pointed out an interesting retrospective by Scott Rosenberg , former managing editor of Salon.com , about their experiments with paywalls and how repercussions can last a lot longer than some might expect .
" More important , by this point the public was , understandably , thoroughly confused about how to get to read Salon content .
It took many years for our traffic to begin to grow again .
Paywalls are psychological as much as navigational , and it 's a lot easier to put them up than to take them down .
Once web users get it in their head that your site is 'closed ' to them , if you ever change your mind and want them to come back , it 's extremely difficult to get that word out .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Techdirt pointed out an interesting retrospective by Scott Rosenberg, former managing editor of Salon.com, about their experiments with paywalls and how repercussions can last a lot longer than some might expect.
"More important, by this point the public was, understandably, thoroughly confused about how to get to read Salon content.
It took many years for our traffic to begin to grow again.
Paywalls are psychological as much as navigational, and it's a lot easier to put them up than to take them down.
Once web users get it in their head that your site is 'closed' to them, if you ever change your mind and want them to come back, it's extremely difficult to get that word out.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329574</id>
	<title>Re:Do women need affordable botox?</title>
	<author>ShaunC</author>
	<datestamp>1259924400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>do women need affordable botox?</p></div><p>Well it is <b>Salon</b>.com, after all...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>do women need affordable botox ? Well it is Salon.com , after all.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>do women need affordable botox?Well it is Salon.com, after all...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328676</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328870</id>
	<title>Re:Makes me wonder...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259921160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That is some dubious capitalization in that domain.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That is some dubious capitalization in that domain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is some dubious capitalization in that domain.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328774</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328774</id>
	<title>Makes me wonder...</title>
	<author>clone53421</author>
	<datestamp>1259920740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If www.ExpertSexChange.com dropped their paywall, how long would it take for anyone to start using <em>that</em>?</p><p>(I&rsquo;d never even heard of salon.com, but expertsexchange is something more along the lines of what a geek would understand, I think.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If www.ExpertSexChange.com dropped their paywall , how long would it take for anyone to start using that ?
( I    d never even heard of salon.com , but expertsexchange is something more along the lines of what a geek would understand , I think .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If www.ExpertSexChange.com dropped their paywall, how long would it take for anyone to start using that?
(I’d never even heard of salon.com, but expertsexchange is something more along the lines of what a geek would understand, I think.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328456</id>
	<title>What?</title>
	<author>KefabiMe</author>
	<datestamp>1259919300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>You don't have to pay to go to Salon? News to me. I haven't visited that site for at least a couple of years.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You do n't have to pay to go to Salon ?
News to me .
I have n't visited that site for at least a couple of years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You don't have to pay to go to Salon?
News to me.
I haven't visited that site for at least a couple of years.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328464</id>
	<title>Did Salon drop their paywall?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259919360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wouldn't know, because after dealing with the fucking thing several times I just gave up on the goddamn site.  Seriously-- when they started gating their bloody <i>comics</i> section, and the second half of already pretty poor articles vanished behind 'day passes' and interstitial video ads, my interest in dealing with them as a site vanished.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would n't know , because after dealing with the fucking thing several times I just gave up on the goddamn site .
Seriously-- when they started gating their bloody comics section , and the second half of already pretty poor articles vanished behind 'day passes ' and interstitial video ads , my interest in dealing with them as a site vanished .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wouldn't know, because after dealing with the fucking thing several times I just gave up on the goddamn site.
Seriously-- when they started gating their bloody comics section, and the second half of already pretty poor articles vanished behind 'day passes' and interstitial video ads, my interest in dealing with them as a site vanished.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329622</id>
	<title>Re:paywalls without a sane business model?</title>
	<author>Tikkun</author>
	<datestamp>1259924580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>To me, this seems like totally irrational behavior on the part of the publisher.</p></div><p>Information is a commodity. Make it available to everyone and the information is very useful, but now has no value.<br> <br>

Make it available at a high price to people that have an incentive to keep it to themselves and you have something much less useful, but far more valuable.<br> <br>

This can work with some academic content (there are only so many places you can publish research for peer review, and they're all in on the game), but cannot work with news where a large amount of people are interested in reading, writing and disseminating the content.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>To me , this seems like totally irrational behavior on the part of the publisher.Information is a commodity .
Make it available to everyone and the information is very useful , but now has no value .
Make it available at a high price to people that have an incentive to keep it to themselves and you have something much less useful , but far more valuable .
This can work with some academic content ( there are only so many places you can publish research for peer review , and they 're all in on the game ) , but can not work with news where a large amount of people are interested in reading , writing and disseminating the content .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To me, this seems like totally irrational behavior on the part of the publisher.Information is a commodity.
Make it available to everyone and the information is very useful, but now has no value.
Make it available at a high price to people that have an incentive to keep it to themselves and you have something much less useful, but far more valuable.
This can work with some academic content (there are only so many places you can publish research for peer review, and they're all in on the game), but cannot work with news where a large amount of people are interested in reading, writing and disseminating the content.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328958</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328900</id>
	<title>Re:He's correct: bootstrap to survive</title>
	<author>rjstanford</author>
	<datestamp>1259921340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, if you ever read TFA, you'd see that the paywall - while it made their future success a lot more challenging - was the only thing that did save them when the money ran out.  It was basically put up a paywall and live, hurting, or don't and die out due to lack of revenue (which makes future developments moot).  They did what they thought they had to do to survive, and survived, giving them the chance to painfully recover once they were able to drop the paywall.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , if you ever read TFA , you 'd see that the paywall - while it made their future success a lot more challenging - was the only thing that did save them when the money ran out .
It was basically put up a paywall and live , hurting , or do n't and die out due to lack of revenue ( which makes future developments moot ) .
They did what they thought they had to do to survive , and survived , giving them the chance to painfully recover once they were able to drop the paywall .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, if you ever read TFA, you'd see that the paywall - while it made their future success a lot more challenging - was the only thing that did save them when the money ran out.
It was basically put up a paywall and live, hurting, or don't and die out due to lack of revenue (which makes future developments moot).
They did what they thought they had to do to survive, and survived, giving them the chance to painfully recover once they were able to drop the paywall.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328522</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328736</id>
	<title>I didn't even know..</title>
	<author>Sloppy</author>
	<datestamp>1259920560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>..that Salon had come back.  When I see 'em in the status bar, I don't bother clicking because I assume the article isn't really there.</p><p>And that's kind of interesting.  Their name got <strong>known.</strong>  That's half the battle.  Too bad they got known in a bad way.</p><p>BTW, you know who actually got me to pay?  Phoronix.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>..that Salon had come back .
When I see 'em in the status bar , I do n't bother clicking because I assume the article is n't really there.And that 's kind of interesting .
Their name got known .
That 's half the battle .
Too bad they got known in a bad way.BTW , you know who actually got me to pay ?
Phoronix .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>..that Salon had come back.
When I see 'em in the status bar, I don't bother clicking because I assume the article isn't really there.And that's kind of interesting.
Their name got known.
That's half the battle.
Too bad they got known in a bad way.BTW, you know who actually got me to pay?
Phoronix.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329952</id>
	<title>Re:God as my witness, I didn't know they were free</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259925960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>God as my witness, I didn't know...</p></div><p>Well played, Sir. I was, indeed, just about to doubt you.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>God as my witness , I did n't know...Well played , Sir .
I was , indeed , just about to doubt you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>God as my witness, I didn't know...Well played, Sir.
I was, indeed, just about to doubt you.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329140</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30333384</id>
	<title>Re:Sshhh!</title>
	<author>Dan541</author>
	<datestamp>1260046380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Murdoch is a dumbass who doesn't understand the Internet. It appears that he only learnt of it's existence quite recently.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Murdoch is a dumbass who does n't understand the Internet .
It appears that he only learnt of it 's existence quite recently .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Murdoch is a dumbass who doesn't understand the Internet.
It appears that he only learnt of it's existence quite recently.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328494</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30331110</id>
	<title>Re:Makes me wonder...</title>
	<author>blop</author>
	<datestamp>1259932440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>www.stackoverflow.com is a much better free alternative to expertSexchange.com.</p><p>They also regularly provide a complete database dump of all the questions and answers (http://blog.stackoverflow.com/category/cc-wiki-dump/) so there is no risk they'll steal the community effort like expertsexchange did...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>www.stackoverflow.com is a much better free alternative to expertSexchange.com.They also regularly provide a complete database dump of all the questions and answers ( http : //blog.stackoverflow.com/category/cc-wiki-dump/ ) so there is no risk they 'll steal the community effort like expertsexchange did.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>www.stackoverflow.com is a much better free alternative to expertSexchange.com.They also regularly provide a complete database dump of all the questions and answers (http://blog.stackoverflow.com/category/cc-wiki-dump/) so there is no risk they'll steal the community effort like expertsexchange did...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328774</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30331400</id>
	<title>Software, too.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259934600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The same is true with software.  <b>Years</b> after Opera dropped the registration fee and ads and went 100\% free-as-in-beer, there were still people who thought you had to pay for it or suffer through ads in your toolbar.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The same is true with software .
Years after Opera dropped the registration fee and ads and went 100 \ % free-as-in-beer , there were still people who thought you had to pay for it or suffer through ads in your toolbar .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The same is true with software.
Years after Opera dropped the registration fee and ads and went 100\% free-as-in-beer, there were still people who thought you had to pay for it or suffer through ads in your toolbar.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329226</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30337252</id>
	<title>Re:Software, too.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260043800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Opera is 100\% free-as-in-beer???</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Opera is 100 \ % free-as-in-beer ? ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Opera is 100\% free-as-in-beer??
?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30331400</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30330810</id>
	<title>Re:paywalls without a sane business model?</title>
	<author>martin-boundary</author>
	<datestamp>1259930460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What rates? They should be free, all of them.
<p>
The only reason papers had to be charged for in the past were physical printing costs. All the work that goes into a paper, and all the quality assurance / review prior to accepting it costs nothing to the publisher : reviews are done for free by volunteers, and
the actual research is paid for by the researcher's university.
</p><p>
And BTW, those papers post 1995 are not free at all, they are only available
 behind a university subscription wall that's invisible to students and faculty.
</p><p>
There are still far too few journals which offer all their articles free to everybody.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What rates ?
They should be free , all of them .
The only reason papers had to be charged for in the past were physical printing costs .
All the work that goes into a paper , and all the quality assurance / review prior to accepting it costs nothing to the publisher : reviews are done for free by volunteers , and the actual research is paid for by the researcher 's university .
And BTW , those papers post 1995 are not free at all , they are only available behind a university subscription wall that 's invisible to students and faculty .
There are still far too few journals which offer all their articles free to everybody .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What rates?
They should be free, all of them.
The only reason papers had to be charged for in the past were physical printing costs.
All the work that goes into a paper, and all the quality assurance / review prior to accepting it costs nothing to the publisher : reviews are done for free by volunteers, and
the actual research is paid for by the researcher's university.
And BTW, those papers post 1995 are not free at all, they are only available
 behind a university subscription wall that's invisible to students and faculty.
There are still far too few journals which offer all their articles free to everybody.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329170</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30333496</id>
	<title>Re:How paywalls could work</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260005640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Some of the micropayments concepts are particularly interesting, because we're literally talking about nickels and dimes.
<br>
<i>"Add $50 funds for 5000 News!"</i>
<br>
<i>"Read this article for 2 News!"</i>
<br>
I actually suspect that it would work quite well, but it's very foreign.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Some of the micropayments concepts are particularly interesting , because we 're literally talking about nickels and dimes .
" Add $ 50 funds for 5000 News !
" " Read this article for 2 News !
" I actually suspect that it would work quite well , but it 's very foreign .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some of the micropayments concepts are particularly interesting, because we're literally talking about nickels and dimes.
"Add $50 funds for 5000 News!
"

"Read this article for 2 News!
"

I actually suspect that it would work quite well, but it's very foreign.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328882</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30330278</id>
	<title>Re:Makes me wonder...</title>
	<author>Itninja</author>
	<datestamp>1259927280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>An added benefit of viewing the cached info in Google is it auto-highlights all the queried words. The EE forums are usually 3rd gen info, but often at the top of the results. Thanks Google cache!</htmltext>
<tokenext>An added benefit of viewing the cached info in Google is it auto-highlights all the queried words .
The EE forums are usually 3rd gen info , but often at the top of the results .
Thanks Google cache !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An added benefit of viewing the cached info in Google is it auto-highlights all the queried words.
The EE forums are usually 3rd gen info, but often at the top of the results.
Thanks Google cache!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328774</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30332836</id>
	<title>Re:What?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259950680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Funny,that's why I haven't been there in years too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Funny,that 's why I have n't been there in years too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Funny,that's why I haven't been there in years too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328456</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30330156</id>
	<title>Re:paywalls without a sane business model?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259926740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your point about the price-politics of scientific journals is absolutely valid. However, you don't have to oblige, because as a matter of fact you can find any scientific publication somewhere on the web, or if it proves really hard to find, just contact the authors.</p><p>Here you go: http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/133132/files/CM-P00063992.pdf</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your point about the price-politics of scientific journals is absolutely valid .
However , you do n't have to oblige , because as a matter of fact you can find any scientific publication somewhere on the web , or if it proves really hard to find , just contact the authors.Here you go : http : //cdsweb.cern.ch/record/133132/files/CM-P00063992.pdf</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your point about the price-politics of scientific journals is absolutely valid.
However, you don't have to oblige, because as a matter of fact you can find any scientific publication somewhere on the web, or if it proves really hard to find, just contact the authors.Here you go: http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/133132/files/CM-P00063992.pdf</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328958</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30332112</id>
	<title>Re:How paywalls could work</title>
	<author>thePowerOfGrayskull</author>
	<datestamp>1259941200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's so freaky that you mentioned that! Look: <a href="http://paywall.google.com/beta" title="google.com">http://paywall.google.com/beta</a> [google.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's so freaky that you mentioned that !
Look : http : //paywall.google.com/beta [ google.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's so freaky that you mentioned that!
Look: http://paywall.google.com/beta [google.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328882</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30331002</id>
	<title>Re:How paywalls could work</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259931660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>As much as I don't like it as a user, I believe the "paywall" approach would work if there was one dominant way to pay for a "pass" (or a micropayment account) that would unlock millions of sites.</p></div><p>I have one. It's called my monthly Internet service bill.</p><p>Of course, the problem is slicing and dicing that sucker into millions of microscopic segments so that everyone gets what they deserve.</p><p>Screw it. My Google bill would <i>kill</i> me!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As much as I do n't like it as a user , I believe the " paywall " approach would work if there was one dominant way to pay for a " pass " ( or a micropayment account ) that would unlock millions of sites.I have one .
It 's called my monthly Internet service bill.Of course , the problem is slicing and dicing that sucker into millions of microscopic segments so that everyone gets what they deserve.Screw it .
My Google bill would kill me !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As much as I don't like it as a user, I believe the "paywall" approach would work if there was one dominant way to pay for a "pass" (or a micropayment account) that would unlock millions of sites.I have one.
It's called my monthly Internet service bill.Of course, the problem is slicing and dicing that sucker into millions of microscopic segments so that everyone gets what they deserve.Screw it.
My Google bill would kill me!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328882</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328796</id>
	<title>Re:What?</title>
	<author>V50</author>
	<datestamp>1259920800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yep. Last I remember of Salon.com was sometime in 2000 or so, they had some decent stuff. Then the paywall went up ages ago, and I forgot they existed. Except for a few times throughout the decade where Google led me to an article of theirs, only to end up being blocked of by the paywall.</p><p>Half of me thinks this is just them screaming "LOOK WE DON'T HAVE A PAYWALL ANYMORE". That is, assuming they actually don't.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yep .
Last I remember of Salon.com was sometime in 2000 or so , they had some decent stuff .
Then the paywall went up ages ago , and I forgot they existed .
Except for a few times throughout the decade where Google led me to an article of theirs , only to end up being blocked of by the paywall.Half of me thinks this is just them screaming " LOOK WE DO N'T HAVE A PAYWALL ANYMORE " .
That is , assuming they actually do n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yep.
Last I remember of Salon.com was sometime in 2000 or so, they had some decent stuff.
Then the paywall went up ages ago, and I forgot they existed.
Except for a few times throughout the decade where Google led me to an article of theirs, only to end up being blocked of by the paywall.Half of me thinks this is just them screaming "LOOK WE DON'T HAVE A PAYWALL ANYMORE".
That is, assuming they actually don't.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328456</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30348590</id>
	<title>Re:paywalls without a sane business model?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260114120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"You're not the costumer"</p><p>I'm not the pheasant plucker, I'm the pheasant pluckers son. Who makes costumes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" You 're not the costumer " I 'm not the pheasant plucker , I 'm the pheasant pluckers son .
Who makes costumes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"You're not the costumer"I'm not the pheasant plucker, I'm the pheasant pluckers son.
Who makes costumes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329538</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328954</id>
	<title>Paywalls will fail unless everyone does it</title>
	<author>thetoadwarrior</author>
	<datestamp>1259921580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The reason Murdoch doesn't do anything is because doing it on his own would hurt him. The Sun, Sky News and Fox news aren't aimed at rich people, like the WSJ. They're aimed at the lower class who aren't going to pay if they can help it. So the only way Murdoch will grow an balls to lock up his sites is if he can get everyone else to do it and hopefully that won't happen.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The reason Murdoch does n't do anything is because doing it on his own would hurt him .
The Sun , Sky News and Fox news are n't aimed at rich people , like the WSJ .
They 're aimed at the lower class who are n't going to pay if they can help it .
So the only way Murdoch will grow an balls to lock up his sites is if he can get everyone else to do it and hopefully that wo n't happen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reason Murdoch doesn't do anything is because doing it on his own would hurt him.
The Sun, Sky News and Fox news aren't aimed at rich people, like the WSJ.
They're aimed at the lower class who aren't going to pay if they can help it.
So the only way Murdoch will grow an balls to lock up his sites is if he can get everyone else to do it and hopefully that won't happen.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30332584</id>
	<title>Yeah, Whatever ...</title>
	<author>gordguide</author>
	<datestamp>1259947740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Salon, like others have mentioned, was on my radar at one time. Then came the paywall<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... then came "I'm never going there again."</p><p>When click on a link and that link goes to anything annoying, I just close the window with a quick finger-and-thumb key combination and move on. Paywalls are not the only kind of annoying page that gets that response, or even the most common [*cough* flash *cough*] but it's now an entrenched part of my surfing habits to leave and never come back when the site fights me.</p><p>I always load my browsing session with links that load behind the main window, and there's always other on-topic pages there when any particular one closes. With Google searches, I choose the more relevant dozen or so links from the first five pages or so, loading them behind the Google search results page, before I start checking the pages Google sent me to. If I have to kill a page, there's either another relevant page right behind it, or If somehow the pages all seem weak, I do a revised search.</p><p>As for Salon, I'm still on the "never going there again" because, well, I understand what "never" means, and a promise is a promise, even if it's just to myself.</p><p>It seems as though perhaps the paywall was some kind of experiment. Well, the experiment failed, apparently. Perhaps they somehow forgot that writers would rather be read than ignored, which is not quite the same thing as 'writers would rather be read than paid', but you can see it from there. If people read and like you work, you will eventually land a paying writing gig. If no-one ever gets to the "read" part, the money isn't coming. Ever.</p><p>I wish Salon luck in whatever they plan to do next. If they want me to hear about it, I suggest posting another<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. topic. Otherwise, I'll never hear about it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Salon , like others have mentioned , was on my radar at one time .
Then came the paywall ... then came " I 'm never going there again .
" When click on a link and that link goes to anything annoying , I just close the window with a quick finger-and-thumb key combination and move on .
Paywalls are not the only kind of annoying page that gets that response , or even the most common [ * cough * flash * cough * ] but it 's now an entrenched part of my surfing habits to leave and never come back when the site fights me.I always load my browsing session with links that load behind the main window , and there 's always other on-topic pages there when any particular one closes .
With Google searches , I choose the more relevant dozen or so links from the first five pages or so , loading them behind the Google search results page , before I start checking the pages Google sent me to .
If I have to kill a page , there 's either another relevant page right behind it , or If somehow the pages all seem weak , I do a revised search.As for Salon , I 'm still on the " never going there again " because , well , I understand what " never " means , and a promise is a promise , even if it 's just to myself.It seems as though perhaps the paywall was some kind of experiment .
Well , the experiment failed , apparently .
Perhaps they somehow forgot that writers would rather be read than ignored , which is not quite the same thing as 'writers would rather be read than paid ' , but you can see it from there .
If people read and like you work , you will eventually land a paying writing gig .
If no-one ever gets to the " read " part , the money is n't coming .
Ever.I wish Salon luck in whatever they plan to do next .
If they want me to hear about it , I suggest posting another / .
topic. Otherwise , I 'll never hear about it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Salon, like others have mentioned, was on my radar at one time.
Then came the paywall ... then came "I'm never going there again.
"When click on a link and that link goes to anything annoying, I just close the window with a quick finger-and-thumb key combination and move on.
Paywalls are not the only kind of annoying page that gets that response, or even the most common [*cough* flash *cough*] but it's now an entrenched part of my surfing habits to leave and never come back when the site fights me.I always load my browsing session with links that load behind the main window, and there's always other on-topic pages there when any particular one closes.
With Google searches, I choose the more relevant dozen or so links from the first five pages or so, loading them behind the Google search results page, before I start checking the pages Google sent me to.
If I have to kill a page, there's either another relevant page right behind it, or If somehow the pages all seem weak, I do a revised search.As for Salon, I'm still on the "never going there again" because, well, I understand what "never" means, and a promise is a promise, even if it's just to myself.It seems as though perhaps the paywall was some kind of experiment.
Well, the experiment failed, apparently.
Perhaps they somehow forgot that writers would rather be read than ignored, which is not quite the same thing as 'writers would rather be read than paid', but you can see it from there.
If people read and like you work, you will eventually land a paying writing gig.
If no-one ever gets to the "read" part, the money isn't coming.
Ever.I wish Salon luck in whatever they plan to do next.
If they want me to hear about it, I suggest posting another /.
topic. Otherwise, I'll never hear about it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329742</id>
	<title>Re:God as my witness, I didn't know they were free</title>
	<author>jjohnson</author>
	<datestamp>1259925180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They didn't think they were the Wall St. Journal.  At the time they implemented the paywall, they were very upfront about the fact that they were a small startup looking to survive, and were (somewhat desperately) exploring different ways to meet their costs.  The paywall turned out to be a bad idea, but their process was an awesome model of how a business works transparently with its customers to find a survivable business model.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They did n't think they were the Wall St. Journal. At the time they implemented the paywall , they were very upfront about the fact that they were a small startup looking to survive , and were ( somewhat desperately ) exploring different ways to meet their costs .
The paywall turned out to be a bad idea , but their process was an awesome model of how a business works transparently with its customers to find a survivable business model .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They didn't think they were the Wall St. Journal.  At the time they implemented the paywall, they were very upfront about the fact that they were a small startup looking to survive, and were (somewhat desperately) exploring different ways to meet their costs.
The paywall turned out to be a bad idea, but their process was an awesome model of how a business works transparently with its customers to find a survivable business model.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329140</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328968</id>
	<title>Re:Makes me wonder...</title>
	<author>Jimmy King</author>
	<datestamp>1259921640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not to mention that's not even the domain for the site he's referring to. Sadly, the real one has a hyphen which solves the reading problem.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not to mention that 's not even the domain for the site he 's referring to .
Sadly , the real one has a hyphen which solves the reading problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not to mention that's not even the domain for the site he's referring to.
Sadly, the real one has a hyphen which solves the reading problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328870</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30330772</id>
	<title>Yes- you can read about it here!</title>
	<author>billstewart</author>
	<datestamp>1259930340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://salon.com/" title="salon.com" rel="nofollow">http://salon.com</a> [salon.com]<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)  I mainly read Doonesbury there, plus articles other sites refer to, because I also stopped going there routinely after the paywall hit, and haven't looked at the front page (except for just now...)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //salon.com [ salon.com ] : - ) I mainly read Doonesbury there , plus articles other sites refer to , because I also stopped going there routinely after the paywall hit , and have n't looked at the front page ( except for just now... )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://salon.com [salon.com] :-)  I mainly read Doonesbury there, plus articles other sites refer to, because I also stopped going there routinely after the paywall hit, and haven't looked at the front page (except for just now...)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328456</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328636</id>
	<title>What! Salon took down the pay wall?</title>
	<author>140Mandak262Jamuna</author>
	<datestamp>1259920020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Man! I never knew. Went, there once back in, what 1999?, and got slapped in the face and never went back. Coulda knocked me down with a feather! Fancy that! Salon, no pay wall! Why I never heard about it before?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Man !
I never knew .
Went , there once back in , what 1999 ? , and got slapped in the face and never went back .
Coulda knocked me down with a feather !
Fancy that !
Salon , no pay wall !
Why I never heard about it before ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Man!
I never knew.
Went, there once back in, what 1999?, and got slapped in the face and never went back.
Coulda knocked me down with a feather!
Fancy that!
Salon, no pay wall!
Why I never heard about it before?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30331788</id>
	<title>Re:What?</title>
	<author>DoninIN</author>
	<datestamp>1259937540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>M3 2<p>
I think it's hilarious how many<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. readers have already chimed with the  Salon isn't behind a paywall? I haven't read anything on there in years, I just forgot about it when they put up the annoying paywall. I might be willing to pay to get quality content, but I'm just going to be annoyed if you post 1/3 of a story, and then cut me off and ask for money. Which is what I remember post paywall salon to be like, so I stopped going there, ever.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>M3 2 I think it 's hilarious how many / .
readers have already chimed with the Salon is n't behind a paywall ?
I have n't read anything on there in years , I just forgot about it when they put up the annoying paywall .
I might be willing to pay to get quality content , but I 'm just going to be annoyed if you post 1/3 of a story , and then cut me off and ask for money .
Which is what I remember post paywall salon to be like , so I stopped going there , ever .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>M3 2
I think it's hilarious how many /.
readers have already chimed with the  Salon isn't behind a paywall?
I haven't read anything on there in years, I just forgot about it when they put up the annoying paywall.
I might be willing to pay to get quality content, but I'm just going to be annoyed if you post 1/3 of a story, and then cut me off and ask for money.
Which is what I remember post paywall salon to be like, so I stopped going there, ever.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329078</id>
	<title>It's not the problem with paying for news</title>
	<author>iamacat</author>
	<datestamp>1259922060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's the problem paying for each news source separately. What people definitely not want to do is get all their news from one site, like they did in the days of newspapers. And $5/month subscriptions to 20 different sites are not going to be cost effective. Come up with a system where one pays a flat fee, has access to practically everything, worldwide, and the money is distributed in proportion to time spent on each site and people will not be averse to paying. In fact most ISPs would probably bundle the access fee to simplify life for an average user who just wants the site to work with no extra steps.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's the problem paying for each news source separately .
What people definitely not want to do is get all their news from one site , like they did in the days of newspapers .
And $ 5/month subscriptions to 20 different sites are not going to be cost effective .
Come up with a system where one pays a flat fee , has access to practically everything , worldwide , and the money is distributed in proportion to time spent on each site and people will not be averse to paying .
In fact most ISPs would probably bundle the access fee to simplify life for an average user who just wants the site to work with no extra steps .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's the problem paying for each news source separately.
What people definitely not want to do is get all their news from one site, like they did in the days of newspapers.
And $5/month subscriptions to 20 different sites are not going to be cost effective.
Come up with a system where one pays a flat fee, has access to practically everything, worldwide, and the money is distributed in proportion to time spent on each site and people will not be averse to paying.
In fact most ISPs would probably bundle the access fee to simplify life for an average user who just wants the site to work with no extra steps.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30336848</id>
	<title>Re:Good frikkin lord...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260041280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If I have to read another &ldquo;funny&rdquo; comment saying &ldquo;what! salon.com dropped their paywall?&rdquo;, I think I&rsquo;m going to scream.</p></div><p> what?  Solon.com dropped their paywall?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If I have to read another    funny    comment saying    what !
salon.com dropped their paywall ?    , I think I    m going to scream .
what ? Solon.com dropped their paywall ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I have to read another “funny” comment saying “what!
salon.com dropped their paywall?”, I think I’m going to scream.
what?  Solon.com dropped their paywall?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328742</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30332108</id>
	<title>Re:Makes me wonder...</title>
	<author>thePowerOfGrayskull</author>
	<datestamp>1259941140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They have no paywall.   Just scroll to the page bottom.</htmltext>
<tokenext>They have no paywall .
Just scroll to the page bottom .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They have no paywall.
Just scroll to the page bottom.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328774</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328542</id>
	<title>viewers weren't stupid, they were pissed off</title>
	<author>SuperBanana</author>
	<datestamp>1259919600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>More important, by this point the public was, understandably, thoroughly confused about how to get to read Salon content. It took many years for our traffic to begin to grow again. Paywalls are psychological as much as navigational, and it's a lot easier to put them up than to take them down. Once web users get it in their head that your site is 'closed' to them, if you ever change your mind and want them to come back, it's extremely difficult to get that word out.</i>

</p><p>Oh man, that's rich.  So, users are just "stupid" and "hard to reach"?  I think "pissed off" is more like it.  Let me reword that for you, Salon:

</p><p>"More important, by this point the public was, understandably, thoroughly confused and annoyed as to why they had to pay for Salon content or watch ads when they didn't have to anywhere else.  It took many years for our traffic to begin to grow again after we finally realized Paywalls are like trying to charge people for air or sell refrigerators to Eskimos.  Content is plentiful and none of our articles were special or unique enough to justify the cost or trouble for viewers.  Once web users find your site requires them to do more than just read content, if you ever realize you were completely stupid and want them to come back, too bad, because they already found other free content they like, and you already pissed them off."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>More important , by this point the public was , understandably , thoroughly confused about how to get to read Salon content .
It took many years for our traffic to begin to grow again .
Paywalls are psychological as much as navigational , and it 's a lot easier to put them up than to take them down .
Once web users get it in their head that your site is 'closed ' to them , if you ever change your mind and want them to come back , it 's extremely difficult to get that word out .
Oh man , that 's rich .
So , users are just " stupid " and " hard to reach " ?
I think " pissed off " is more like it .
Let me reword that for you , Salon : " More important , by this point the public was , understandably , thoroughly confused and annoyed as to why they had to pay for Salon content or watch ads when they did n't have to anywhere else .
It took many years for our traffic to begin to grow again after we finally realized Paywalls are like trying to charge people for air or sell refrigerators to Eskimos .
Content is plentiful and none of our articles were special or unique enough to justify the cost or trouble for viewers .
Once web users find your site requires them to do more than just read content , if you ever realize you were completely stupid and want them to come back , too bad , because they already found other free content they like , and you already pissed them off .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext> More important, by this point the public was, understandably, thoroughly confused about how to get to read Salon content.
It took many years for our traffic to begin to grow again.
Paywalls are psychological as much as navigational, and it's a lot easier to put them up than to take them down.
Once web users get it in their head that your site is 'closed' to them, if you ever change your mind and want them to come back, it's extremely difficult to get that word out.
Oh man, that's rich.
So, users are just "stupid" and "hard to reach"?
I think "pissed off" is more like it.
Let me reword that for you, Salon:

"More important, by this point the public was, understandably, thoroughly confused and annoyed as to why they had to pay for Salon content or watch ads when they didn't have to anywhere else.
It took many years for our traffic to begin to grow again after we finally realized Paywalls are like trying to charge people for air or sell refrigerators to Eskimos.
Content is plentiful and none of our articles were special or unique enough to justify the cost or trouble for viewers.
Once web users find your site requires them to do more than just read content, if you ever realize you were completely stupid and want them to come back, too bad, because they already found other free content they like, and you already pissed them off.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329090</id>
	<title>Why WSJ Paywall Works</title>
	<author>geoffrobinson</author>
	<datestamp>1259922060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1) their site is specialized enough<br>2) it is probably a business expense for a lot of people</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 ) their site is specialized enough2 ) it is probably a business expense for a lot of people</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1) their site is specialized enough2) it is probably a business expense for a lot of people</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328504</id>
	<title>I got tired of them when they went too far to ...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259919420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>the left. I like to read about both sides of an issue, but sometimes,  some of their columnists can be a bit over over the top and just as bad as some of the commentators on Fox - only on the left. <p>The paywall didn't bother me at all - it gave me time to get a cup of coffee or eliminate a previous cup of coffee.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>the left .
I like to read about both sides of an issue , but sometimes , some of their columnists can be a bit over over the top and just as bad as some of the commentators on Fox - only on the left .
The paywall did n't bother me at all - it gave me time to get a cup of coffee or eliminate a previous cup of coffee .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the left.
I like to read about both sides of an issue, but sometimes,  some of their columnists can be a bit over over the top and just as bad as some of the commentators on Fox - only on the left.
The paywall didn't bother me at all - it gave me time to get a cup of coffee or eliminate a previous cup of coffee.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30331852</id>
	<title>Re:paywalls without a sane business model?</title>
	<author>bcrowell</author>
	<datestamp>1259938020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>&gt;&gt; "a single academic paper from 1979 -- especially not when it's electronic, so the marginal cost of distribution per copy is essentially zero."</p></div>
</blockquote><blockquote><div><p>&gt; "This probably isn't true in this case: unless they're popular, single academic papers from 1979 are likely to have few readers, and you might be the only person to pay the cost of translating said paper over to an electronic format."</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
But my statement was about the marginal cost of distribution per copy.
</p><p>
Their optimal profit is obtained at a certain price, regardless of the initial cost of conversion. Of course, they may be making an emotional decision rather than a rational one: "We spent $30 to convert this article, and dammit, we're not going to let anyone have it for a price that doesn't recover our cost<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... even if that means nobody buys it, and we don't get any money at all, and it hurts our bottom line."
</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; &gt; " a single academic paper from 1979 -- especially not when it 's electronic , so the marginal cost of distribution per copy is essentially zero .
" &gt; " This probably is n't true in this case : unless they 're popular , single academic papers from 1979 are likely to have few readers , and you might be the only person to pay the cost of translating said paper over to an electronic format .
" But my statement was about the marginal cost of distribution per copy .
Their optimal profit is obtained at a certain price , regardless of the initial cost of conversion .
Of course , they may be making an emotional decision rather than a rational one : " We spent $ 30 to convert this article , and dammit , we 're not going to let anyone have it for a price that does n't recover our cost ... even if that means nobody buys it , and we do n't get any money at all , and it hurts our bottom line .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;&gt; "a single academic paper from 1979 -- especially not when it's electronic, so the marginal cost of distribution per copy is essentially zero.
"
&gt; "This probably isn't true in this case: unless they're popular, single academic papers from 1979 are likely to have few readers, and you might be the only person to pay the cost of translating said paper over to an electronic format.
"

But my statement was about the marginal cost of distribution per copy.
Their optimal profit is obtained at a certain price, regardless of the initial cost of conversion.
Of course, they may be making an emotional decision rather than a rational one: "We spent $30 to convert this article, and dammit, we're not going to let anyone have it for a price that doesn't recover our cost ... even if that means nobody buys it, and we don't get any money at all, and it hurts our bottom line.
"

	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30330194</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329212</id>
	<title>Filtered them a while ago</title>
	<author>CrashNBrn</author>
	<datestamp>1259922660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I use a custom google search. Experts-exchange.com is <b>one</b> of the domains I have permanently filtered out of any of my search results.<br>
<br>
A significant amount of their content is lifted directly from Microsoft's KB articles, technet, etc. Other <i>answers</i> can usually be found elsewhere on reputable sites.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I use a custom google search .
Experts-exchange.com is one of the domains I have permanently filtered out of any of my search results .
A significant amount of their content is lifted directly from Microsoft 's KB articles , technet , etc .
Other answers can usually be found elsewhere on reputable sites .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I use a custom google search.
Experts-exchange.com is one of the domains I have permanently filtered out of any of my search results.
A significant amount of their content is lifted directly from Microsoft's KB articles, technet, etc.
Other answers can usually be found elsewhere on reputable sites.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328774</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30330718</id>
	<title>Re:What?</title>
	<author>geekd</author>
	<datestamp>1259929920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Half of me thinks this is just them screaming "LOOK WE DON'T HAVE A PAYWALL ANYMORE". That is, assuming they actually don't.</i></p><p>Did you even read the summary?  Forget the article, I know you didn't read that.  Just the summary.  The guy does not not work for Salon.com any more.</p><p>"..interesting retrospective by Scott Rosenberg, <em>former</em> managing editor of Salon.com"</p><p>It's not "them".  It's just some guy that used to work there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Half of me thinks this is just them screaming " LOOK WE DO N'T HAVE A PAYWALL ANYMORE " .
That is , assuming they actually do n't.Did you even read the summary ?
Forget the article , I know you did n't read that .
Just the summary .
The guy does not not work for Salon.com any more .
" ..interesting retrospective by Scott Rosenberg , former managing editor of Salon.com " It 's not " them " .
It 's just some guy that used to work there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Half of me thinks this is just them screaming "LOOK WE DON'T HAVE A PAYWALL ANYMORE".
That is, assuming they actually don't.Did you even read the summary?
Forget the article, I know you didn't read that.
Just the summary.
The guy does not not work for Salon.com any more.
"..interesting retrospective by Scott Rosenberg, former managing editor of Salon.com"It's not "them".
It's just some guy that used to work there.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30333572</id>
	<title>Re:What?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260007140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow. I had no idea either. I really liked the site, but when my trial expired I couldn't justify paying for a membership while there was so much good stuff for free.<br>I'm gonna head back over there now!</p><p>I guess all the people on here posting that they didn't know the paywall was gone are proof that Scott Rosenberg's entirely right in his summation of the situation.</p><p>It goes without saying that this is going to be the same problem faced by any site going with a paywall.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow .
I had no idea either .
I really liked the site , but when my trial expired I could n't justify paying for a membership while there was so much good stuff for free.I 'm gon na head back over there now ! I guess all the people on here posting that they did n't know the paywall was gone are proof that Scott Rosenberg 's entirely right in his summation of the situation.It goes without saying that this is going to be the same problem faced by any site going with a paywall .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow.
I had no idea either.
I really liked the site, but when my trial expired I couldn't justify paying for a membership while there was so much good stuff for free.I'm gonna head back over there now!I guess all the people on here posting that they didn't know the paywall was gone are proof that Scott Rosenberg's entirely right in his summation of the situation.It goes without saying that this is going to be the same problem faced by any site going with a paywall.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328456</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329170</id>
	<title>Re:paywalls without a sane business model?</title>
	<author>Jeremy Erwin</author>
	<datestamp>1259922420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not sure that it's in the best interest of the scientific community to lower rates on obsolete papers, and increase them on higher quality, cutting edge papers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not sure that it 's in the best interest of the scientific community to lower rates on obsolete papers , and increase them on higher quality , cutting edge papers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not sure that it's in the best interest of the scientific community to lower rates on obsolete papers, and increase them on higher quality, cutting edge papers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328958</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328484</id>
	<title>Salon is free again?</title>
	<author>AK Dave</author>
	<datestamp>1259919360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Salon is no longer pay-only? Wow, when did this change? I haven't browsed them in years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Salon is no longer pay-only ?
Wow , when did this change ?
I have n't browsed them in years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Salon is no longer pay-only?
Wow, when did this change?
I haven't browsed them in years.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30332714</id>
	<title>Re:And what about Register Walls?</title>
	<author>Logic Worshipper</author>
	<datestamp>1259949120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Dude, use the same password and the same junk email account, and/or username, for everything you don't care about.  Create a fake online you for all the things that ask you register.  Don't use your "I don't give a rats ass if someone hacks this account" password for things you care about, that's bad for security.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dude , use the same password and the same junk email account , and/or username , for everything you do n't care about .
Create a fake online you for all the things that ask you register .
Do n't use your " I do n't give a rats ass if someone hacks this account " password for things you care about , that 's bad for security .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dude, use the same password and the same junk email account, and/or username, for everything you don't care about.
Create a fake online you for all the things that ask you register.
Don't use your "I don't give a rats ass if someone hacks this account" password for things you care about, that's bad for security.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30330882</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30334402</id>
	<title>Re:Paywalls will fail unless everyone does it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260022200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't underestimate Murdoch.  He isn't a senile old coot that people think him to be.  He is America's Rasputin, managing to lock in a party for almost a decade.  He has not had a single setback as of yet, except perhaps Obama becoming President.  However, with Obama essentially gridlocked, that loss is not that big.</p><p>I wouldn't put it past him that he is contributing to ACTA, and when that thing becomes law (remember, in the US, treaties supersede the Constitution in reality), he will have his paywalls.  For people to get anything but the latest iPod announcement, they will be paying $20 to $30 a month for an account somewhere, perhaps a special hardware device like a CableCARD that hooks on the computer to enforce DRM in hardware.</p><p>Even without ACTA, all it would take for him to do is plead to countries that companies like Google are "stealing" his hard-earned news articles, and out comes laws to protect his market.  However, he needs ACTA to completely stuff the cat in the bag and lock out the smaller sites, and he is going to get it.  There is yet a single politician who has the guts to stand up to him, in the US or the EU.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't underestimate Murdoch .
He is n't a senile old coot that people think him to be .
He is America 's Rasputin , managing to lock in a party for almost a decade .
He has not had a single setback as of yet , except perhaps Obama becoming President .
However , with Obama essentially gridlocked , that loss is not that big.I would n't put it past him that he is contributing to ACTA , and when that thing becomes law ( remember , in the US , treaties supersede the Constitution in reality ) , he will have his paywalls .
For people to get anything but the latest iPod announcement , they will be paying $ 20 to $ 30 a month for an account somewhere , perhaps a special hardware device like a CableCARD that hooks on the computer to enforce DRM in hardware.Even without ACTA , all it would take for him to do is plead to countries that companies like Google are " stealing " his hard-earned news articles , and out comes laws to protect his market .
However , he needs ACTA to completely stuff the cat in the bag and lock out the smaller sites , and he is going to get it .
There is yet a single politician who has the guts to stand up to him , in the US or the EU .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't underestimate Murdoch.
He isn't a senile old coot that people think him to be.
He is America's Rasputin, managing to lock in a party for almost a decade.
He has not had a single setback as of yet, except perhaps Obama becoming President.
However, with Obama essentially gridlocked, that loss is not that big.I wouldn't put it past him that he is contributing to ACTA, and when that thing becomes law (remember, in the US, treaties supersede the Constitution in reality), he will have his paywalls.
For people to get anything but the latest iPod announcement, they will be paying $20 to $30 a month for an account somewhere, perhaps a special hardware device like a CableCARD that hooks on the computer to enforce DRM in hardware.Even without ACTA, all it would take for him to do is plead to countries that companies like Google are "stealing" his hard-earned news articles, and out comes laws to protect his market.
However, he needs ACTA to completely stuff the cat in the bag and lock out the smaller sites, and he is going to get it.
There is yet a single politician who has the guts to stand up to him, in the US or the EU.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328954</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30334576</id>
	<title>Re:fast forward 10 years</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260025200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wouldn't pay $30 a month, but I'd pay around the same cost for a hard copy paper that gives me (if applicable to the topic) with each article the basic who/what/when/where/why/how/why does this matter to me/where to go for more info.  Putting this information into an article used to be drilled into the heads of anyone wanting to submit something not an ad or an op ed piece to a newspaper.</p><p>I will be happy to pay something for articles that are more than "blahblahblah [CITATION NEEDED],"  "blahblah anonymous source said (random made up stuff),"  "OMG, here is the new $DEVICE.  Buy it or suffer the fact that you are not cool,"  "OMGWTFLOL, $CELEBRITY wore $WHATEVER," or other junk that seems to end up becoming the journalistic standard of present times.</p><p>Maybe it might be time for governments to start having a press mouthpiece in their own countries?  Not just for present day articles, but to have permanent archives.  Mainly so information just isn't lost forever.  If information is locked away and not able to be searched, it is pretty much off the history books forever.  Remember, if one government doesn't care about technical information, another will, and it just might be something that may give a strategic advantage in a future conflict.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would n't pay $ 30 a month , but I 'd pay around the same cost for a hard copy paper that gives me ( if applicable to the topic ) with each article the basic who/what/when/where/why/how/why does this matter to me/where to go for more info .
Putting this information into an article used to be drilled into the heads of anyone wanting to submit something not an ad or an op ed piece to a newspaper.I will be happy to pay something for articles that are more than " blahblahblah [ CITATION NEEDED ] , " " blahblah anonymous source said ( random made up stuff ) , " " OMG , here is the new $ DEVICE .
Buy it or suffer the fact that you are not cool , " " OMGWTFLOL , $ CELEBRITY wore $ WHATEVER , " or other junk that seems to end up becoming the journalistic standard of present times.Maybe it might be time for governments to start having a press mouthpiece in their own countries ?
Not just for present day articles , but to have permanent archives .
Mainly so information just is n't lost forever .
If information is locked away and not able to be searched , it is pretty much off the history books forever .
Remember , if one government does n't care about technical information , another will , and it just might be something that may give a strategic advantage in a future conflict .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wouldn't pay $30 a month, but I'd pay around the same cost for a hard copy paper that gives me (if applicable to the topic) with each article the basic who/what/when/where/why/how/why does this matter to me/where to go for more info.
Putting this information into an article used to be drilled into the heads of anyone wanting to submit something not an ad or an op ed piece to a newspaper.I will be happy to pay something for articles that are more than "blahblahblah [CITATION NEEDED],"  "blahblah anonymous source said (random made up stuff),"  "OMG, here is the new $DEVICE.
Buy it or suffer the fact that you are not cool,"  "OMGWTFLOL, $CELEBRITY wore $WHATEVER," or other junk that seems to end up becoming the journalistic standard of present times.Maybe it might be time for governments to start having a press mouthpiece in their own countries?
Not just for present day articles, but to have permanent archives.
Mainly so information just isn't lost forever.
If information is locked away and not able to be searched, it is pretty much off the history books forever.
Remember, if one government doesn't care about technical information, another will, and it just might be something that may give a strategic advantage in a future conflict.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30330882</id>
	<title>And what about Register Walls?</title>
	<author>PipingSnail</author>
	<datestamp>1259930880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Paywalls are bad, so are Register Walls.

</p><p>What is a Register Wall? The kind of nonesense you get if you go to the New York Times website.

</p><p>I have no idea if they still require me to login to view their content, but they used to.<br>
The fact that I have no idea if they still require me to login shows just how entrenced the damage to your reputation is..<br>
I simply won't visit the New York Times website because I don't want YET ANOTHER PASSWORD to remember.
Any site that wants me to register just to view content, I don't join.

</p><p>Apart from Amazon, any site that wants to create an account just to purchase, I pass. I recently tried to purchase "Getting Real" but Lulu.com wanted me to register to make a purchase.<br>
Why can't I just provide my name, address, credit card info, etc, then purchase? Why do I need to waste time creating an account, then have that information stored by them forever?<br>
They did not get the sale. Their loss. I can read Getting Real online for free.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Paywalls are bad , so are Register Walls .
What is a Register Wall ?
The kind of nonesense you get if you go to the New York Times website .
I have no idea if they still require me to login to view their content , but they used to .
The fact that I have no idea if they still require me to login shows just how entrenced the damage to your reputation is. . I simply wo n't visit the New York Times website because I do n't want YET ANOTHER PASSWORD to remember .
Any site that wants me to register just to view content , I do n't join .
Apart from Amazon , any site that wants to create an account just to purchase , I pass .
I recently tried to purchase " Getting Real " but Lulu.com wanted me to register to make a purchase .
Why ca n't I just provide my name , address , credit card info , etc , then purchase ?
Why do I need to waste time creating an account , then have that information stored by them forever ?
They did not get the sale .
Their loss .
I can read Getting Real online for free .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Paywalls are bad, so are Register Walls.
What is a Register Wall?
The kind of nonesense you get if you go to the New York Times website.
I have no idea if they still require me to login to view their content, but they used to.
The fact that I have no idea if they still require me to login shows just how entrenced the damage to your reputation is..
I simply won't visit the New York Times website because I don't want YET ANOTHER PASSWORD to remember.
Any site that wants me to register just to view content, I don't join.
Apart from Amazon, any site that wants to create an account just to purchase, I pass.
I recently tried to purchase "Getting Real" but Lulu.com wanted me to register to make a purchase.
Why can't I just provide my name, address, credit card info, etc, then purchase?
Why do I need to waste time creating an account, then have that information stored by them forever?
They did not get the sale.
Their loss.
I can read Getting Real online for free.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30331108</id>
	<title>Re:How paywalls could work</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259932440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And I suspect that there are 30 people at facebook working to make this happen...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And I suspect that there are 30 people at facebook working to make this happen.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And I suspect that there are 30 people at facebook working to make this happen...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328882</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30330194</id>
	<title>Re:paywalls without a sane business model?</title>
	<author>LihTox</author>
	<datestamp>1259926980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>a single academic paper from 1979 -- especially not when it's electronic, so the marginal cost of distribution per copy is essentially zero.</i></p><p>This probably isn't true in this case: unless they're popular, single academic papers from 1979 are likely to have few readers, and you might be the only person to pay the cost of translating said paper over to an electronic format.  That wouldn't cost $32 to do, of course, but it's not as close to zero as the cost of a popular song or software package.  I think your suggested $10 would be much more reasonable.  The real reason for charging is to get university libraries to pay for the entire archive, but surely evne a $5 or $10 price point for older articles would be enough of a nuisance to convince libraries to buy archive access.</p><p>A suggestion if it hasn't occurred to you (if you'll pardon my gall in offering advice to a complete stranger): you might be able to get electronic copies of papers through ILL via your community college library.  If not, you might try to get an affiliation with that university down the road: that may give you online access to those journals through their library.  If that university isn't game, perhaps an alma mater would be willing to extend affilation to you.  I did this while unemployed and while teaching at a community college, and it was very useful.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>a single academic paper from 1979 -- especially not when it 's electronic , so the marginal cost of distribution per copy is essentially zero.This probably is n't true in this case : unless they 're popular , single academic papers from 1979 are likely to have few readers , and you might be the only person to pay the cost of translating said paper over to an electronic format .
That would n't cost $ 32 to do , of course , but it 's not as close to zero as the cost of a popular song or software package .
I think your suggested $ 10 would be much more reasonable .
The real reason for charging is to get university libraries to pay for the entire archive , but surely evne a $ 5 or $ 10 price point for older articles would be enough of a nuisance to convince libraries to buy archive access.A suggestion if it has n't occurred to you ( if you 'll pardon my gall in offering advice to a complete stranger ) : you might be able to get electronic copies of papers through ILL via your community college library .
If not , you might try to get an affiliation with that university down the road : that may give you online access to those journals through their library .
If that university is n't game , perhaps an alma mater would be willing to extend affilation to you .
I did this while unemployed and while teaching at a community college , and it was very useful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>a single academic paper from 1979 -- especially not when it's electronic, so the marginal cost of distribution per copy is essentially zero.This probably isn't true in this case: unless they're popular, single academic papers from 1979 are likely to have few readers, and you might be the only person to pay the cost of translating said paper over to an electronic format.
That wouldn't cost $32 to do, of course, but it's not as close to zero as the cost of a popular song or software package.
I think your suggested $10 would be much more reasonable.
The real reason for charging is to get university libraries to pay for the entire archive, but surely evne a $5 or $10 price point for older articles would be enough of a nuisance to convince libraries to buy archive access.A suggestion if it hasn't occurred to you (if you'll pardon my gall in offering advice to a complete stranger): you might be able to get electronic copies of papers through ILL via your community college library.
If not, you might try to get an affiliation with that university down the road: that may give you online access to those journals through their library.
If that university isn't game, perhaps an alma mater would be willing to extend affilation to you.
I did this while unemployed and while teaching at a community college, and it was very useful.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328958</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328722</id>
	<title>Re:What?</title>
	<author>Hatta</author>
	<datestamp>1259920500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You had to pay to go to Salon?  News to me.  I haven't visited that site for more than a few years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You had to pay to go to Salon ?
News to me .
I have n't visited that site for more than a few years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You had to pay to go to Salon?
News to me.
I haven't visited that site for more than a few years.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328456</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328502</id>
	<title>Wait, does this mean...</title>
	<author>turthalion</author>
	<datestamp>1259919420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... Salon no longer has a paywall?</p><p>: )</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... Salon no longer has a paywall ?
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... Salon no longer has a paywall?
: )</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30332792</id>
	<title>now the layout is the problem</title>
	<author>Meniconi,Nando</author>
	<datestamp>1259950200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Paywall went down ages ago, and I probably was one of the few paying subscribers. I thought it was great, and it still is. Now all that greatness is hidden behind their atrocious frontpage layout. Worse than a paywall...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Paywall went down ages ago , and I probably was one of the few paying subscribers .
I thought it was great , and it still is .
Now all that greatness is hidden behind their atrocious frontpage layout .
Worse than a paywall.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Paywall went down ages ago, and I probably was one of the few paying subscribers.
I thought it was great, and it still is.
Now all that greatness is hidden behind their atrocious frontpage layout.
Worse than a paywall...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30330538</id>
	<title>Re:What?</title>
	<author>apoc.famine</author>
	<datestamp>1259928780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I started reading the summary that was my thought as well. "Salon....I vaguely remember them. Haven't been there in like a decade, wonder why? Ooooh, they had a paywall...that's why...And now they're advertising that they don't!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I started reading the summary that was my thought as well .
" Salon....I vaguely remember them .
Have n't been there in like a decade , wonder why ?
Ooooh , they had a paywall...that 's why...And now they 're advertising that they do n't !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I started reading the summary that was my thought as well.
"Salon....I vaguely remember them.
Haven't been there in like a decade, wonder why?
Ooooh, they had a paywall...that's why...And now they're advertising that they don't!
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30333654</id>
	<title>Re:What?</title>
	<author>Gordonjcp</author>
	<datestamp>1260008520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I stopped going to salon.com because to read any of the articles you had to wait for a 30-second advert to finish.  Since it was generally advertising something specific to the US, like an ugly, underpowered car that didn't have a diesel engine option and was only available in the US anyway, or "high speed" Internet connections that were slower than the entry-level package from my UK ISP, I didn't see the point.  Watching an intrusive advert for 30 seconds put me off reading the content.  Since there didn't appear to be a way to pay for a subscription without a credit card (hint for American web shop designers - outside the US, *everyone* has debit cards - make sure you have debit card support), I lost interest.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I stopped going to salon.com because to read any of the articles you had to wait for a 30-second advert to finish .
Since it was generally advertising something specific to the US , like an ugly , underpowered car that did n't have a diesel engine option and was only available in the US anyway , or " high speed " Internet connections that were slower than the entry-level package from my UK ISP , I did n't see the point .
Watching an intrusive advert for 30 seconds put me off reading the content .
Since there did n't appear to be a way to pay for a subscription without a credit card ( hint for American web shop designers - outside the US , * everyone * has debit cards - make sure you have debit card support ) , I lost interest .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I stopped going to salon.com because to read any of the articles you had to wait for a 30-second advert to finish.
Since it was generally advertising something specific to the US, like an ugly, underpowered car that didn't have a diesel engine option and was only available in the US anyway, or "high speed" Internet connections that were slower than the entry-level package from my UK ISP, I didn't see the point.
Watching an intrusive advert for 30 seconds put me off reading the content.
Since there didn't appear to be a way to pay for a subscription without a credit card (hint for American web shop designers - outside the US, *everyone* has debit cards - make sure you have debit card support), I lost interest.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328456</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329220</id>
	<title>Re:Good frikkin lord...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259922660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Now that you mention it, it does look a lot like a coordinated SEO gambit.</p><p>I think we've been had.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Now that you mention it , it does look a lot like a coordinated SEO gambit.I think we 've been had .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now that you mention it, it does look a lot like a coordinated SEO gambit.I think we've been had.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328742</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30332890</id>
	<title>Opera</title>
	<author>TenBrothers</author>
	<datestamp>1259951340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The entire article can be summed up in the Slashdot replies whenever there is a new release of Opera.  Half of them complain about how you have to pay for it, or that it's filled with ads.

Salon's editor is not being insightful here, not any more than the collective insight gathered from<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. comment content.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The entire article can be summed up in the Slashdot replies whenever there is a new release of Opera .
Half of them complain about how you have to pay for it , or that it 's filled with ads .
Salon 's editor is not being insightful here , not any more than the collective insight gathered from / .
comment content .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The entire article can be summed up in the Slashdot replies whenever there is a new release of Opera.
Half of them complain about how you have to pay for it, or that it's filled with ads.
Salon's editor is not being insightful here, not any more than the collective insight gathered from /.
comment content.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30330020</id>
	<title>I used to be a Salon subscriber</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259926200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Then Talbot left and whatshername took over.  It's more like a lipstick magazine now.  I still do read Salon and did during the paywall stuff.  My firefox ad-block + worked fine at blocking the ad for daypasses.  I waited 30 seconds (switched to my<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. tab lol) for the blank screen to show the 'enter salon' button and proceeded.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Then Talbot left and whatshername took over .
It 's more like a lipstick magazine now .
I still do read Salon and did during the paywall stuff .
My firefox ad-block + worked fine at blocking the ad for daypasses .
I waited 30 seconds ( switched to my / .
tab lol ) for the blank screen to show the 'enter salon ' button and proceeded .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Then Talbot left and whatshername took over.
It's more like a lipstick magazine now.
I still do read Salon and did during the paywall stuff.
My firefox ad-block + worked fine at blocking the ad for daypasses.
I waited 30 seconds (switched to my /.
tab lol) for the blank screen to show the 'enter salon' button and proceeded.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30332722</id>
	<title>Oh cool...</title>
	<author>tengeta</author>
	<datestamp>1259949300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The one news site that is actually worse than Foxnews.com</htmltext>
<tokenext>The one news site that is actually worse than Foxnews.com</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The one news site that is actually worse than Foxnews.com</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329486</id>
	<title>Re:Did Salon drop their paywall?</title>
	<author>Frosty Piss</author>
	<datestamp>1259923920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I wouldn't know, because after dealing with the fucking thing several times I just gave up on the goddamn site.</p></div><p>I too give up surfing the net while fucking.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would n't know , because after dealing with the fucking thing several times I just gave up on the goddamn site.I too give up surfing the net while fucking .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wouldn't know, because after dealing with the fucking thing several times I just gave up on the goddamn site.I too give up surfing the net while fucking.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328464</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329312</id>
	<title>Re:viewers weren't stupid, they were pissed off</title>
	<author>ground.zero.612</author>
	<datestamp>1259923080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Once web users get it in their head that your site is 'closed'</p></div><p>I think stating it like this makes it obvious to me that the it's not the users who were out of touch. The whole "get it in their head" bit... as if Salon.com <em>wasn't</em> the one that told them. No, in fact it just magically popped in with unicorns and pixie dust.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Once web users get it in their head that your site is 'closed'I think stating it like this makes it obvious to me that the it 's not the users who were out of touch .
The whole " get it in their head " bit... as if Salon.com was n't the one that told them .
No , in fact it just magically popped in with unicorns and pixie dust .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Once web users get it in their head that your site is 'closed'I think stating it like this makes it obvious to me that the it's not the users who were out of touch.
The whole "get it in their head" bit... as if Salon.com wasn't the one that told them.
No, in fact it just magically popped in with unicorns and pixie dust.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328542</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329262</id>
	<title>Nice putting words in his mouth...</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1259922900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He never said the users were stupid, or even implied it. What he said was once they left, there was no way to let them know it was free again.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He never said the users were stupid , or even implied it .
What he said was once they left , there was no way to let them know it was free again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He never said the users were stupid, or even implied it.
What he said was once they left, there was no way to let them know it was free again.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328542</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30332660</id>
	<title>Re:What?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259948400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Me too.<br>I always wondered whatever happened to good old Salon.  She was so much fun back in high school.  Then there was that paywall issue, and we just, sorta, went our separate ways.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Me too.I always wondered whatever happened to good old Salon .
She was so much fun back in high school .
Then there was that paywall issue , and we just , sorta , went our separate ways .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Me too.I always wondered whatever happened to good old Salon.
She was so much fun back in high school.
Then there was that paywall issue, and we just, sorta, went our separate ways.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328456</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329398</id>
	<title>Re:paywalls without a sane business model?</title>
	<author>plopez</author>
	<datestamp>1259923500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here's a freaky one.</p><p>My boss buys a reference book, 200+ USD at Amazon. We both work at a research arm of a Uni. and I would like to learn some of the background information. I am a newbie to the field so I take it home. The next day a cow-orker wants it. Ooops! So I go home that night and log in to the Uni. library to see if I can at least find it via inter-library loan. Since I am taking classes I have a student ID so no problem on that front.</p><p>It seems the local Uni. library has a copy but it is checked out. Since I am affiliated with the Uni. I can get an online copy of the book in pdf form.</p><p>But wait! There's more! I can get an actual bound, printed, black and white version in my grubby hands for the princely sum of.... (wait for it)..... 24 USD.</p><p>You heard that correctly my friend. Shipped in 5 days via US Snail Mail. for only 24 USD.</p><p>I'm trying to work out how to tell him. I hope he kept his receipt.</p><p>But please explain this to me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's a freaky one.My boss buys a reference book , 200 + USD at Amazon .
We both work at a research arm of a Uni .
and I would like to learn some of the background information .
I am a newbie to the field so I take it home .
The next day a cow-orker wants it .
Ooops ! So I go home that night and log in to the Uni .
library to see if I can at least find it via inter-library loan .
Since I am taking classes I have a student ID so no problem on that front.It seems the local Uni .
library has a copy but it is checked out .
Since I am affiliated with the Uni .
I can get an online copy of the book in pdf form.But wait !
There 's more !
I can get an actual bound , printed , black and white version in my grubby hands for the princely sum of.... ( wait for it ) ..... 24 USD.You heard that correctly my friend .
Shipped in 5 days via US Snail Mail .
for only 24 USD.I 'm trying to work out how to tell him .
I hope he kept his receipt.But please explain this to me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's a freaky one.My boss buys a reference book, 200+ USD at Amazon.
We both work at a research arm of a Uni.
and I would like to learn some of the background information.
I am a newbie to the field so I take it home.
The next day a cow-orker wants it.
Ooops! So I go home that night and log in to the Uni.
library to see if I can at least find it via inter-library loan.
Since I am taking classes I have a student ID so no problem on that front.It seems the local Uni.
library has a copy but it is checked out.
Since I am affiliated with the Uni.
I can get an online copy of the book in pdf form.But wait!
There's more!
I can get an actual bound, printed, black and white version in my grubby hands for the princely sum of.... (wait for it)..... 24 USD.You heard that correctly my friend.
Shipped in 5 days via US Snail Mail.
for only 24 USD.I'm trying to work out how to tell him.
I hope he kept his receipt.But please explain this to me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328958</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30330492</id>
	<title>Re:Makes me wonder...</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1259928600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If www.ExpertSexChange.com dropped their paywall, how long would it take for anyone to start using that?</p></div><p>+INF, because we already have StackOverflow, SuperUser etc, which are much better implemented, and have a larger userbase already.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If www.ExpertSexChange.com dropped their paywall , how long would it take for anyone to start using that ? + INF , because we already have StackOverflow , SuperUser etc , which are much better implemented , and have a larger userbase already .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If www.ExpertSexChange.com dropped their paywall, how long would it take for anyone to start using that?+INF, because we already have StackOverflow, SuperUser etc, which are much better implemented, and have a larger userbase already.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328774</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328744</id>
	<title>Re:viewers weren't stupid, they were pissed off</title>
	<author>dcollins117</author>
	<datestamp>1259920620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Oh man, that's rich. So, users are just "stupid" and "hard to reach"? I think "pissed off" is more like it.</p></div><p>Or apathetic. I'm just speaking for myself here but there's nothing on their site so compelling to me that I'm willing to open my wallet for it. Another way to look at it is there is a foreseeable downside to giving my payment information to any site on the internet and this case it's just not worth it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh man , that 's rich .
So , users are just " stupid " and " hard to reach " ?
I think " pissed off " is more like it.Or apathetic .
I 'm just speaking for myself here but there 's nothing on their site so compelling to me that I 'm willing to open my wallet for it .
Another way to look at it is there is a foreseeable downside to giving my payment information to any site on the internet and this case it 's just not worth it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh man, that's rich.
So, users are just "stupid" and "hard to reach"?
I think "pissed off" is more like it.Or apathetic.
I'm just speaking for myself here but there's nothing on their site so compelling to me that I'm willing to open my wallet for it.
Another way to look at it is there is a foreseeable downside to giving my payment information to any site on the internet and this case it's just not worth it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328542</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329064</id>
	<title>Try me</title>
	<author>fulldecent</author>
	<datestamp>1259922000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>let the paywalls go up.</p><p>i'll be the one to write a firefox extension that double underlines all paywall sites. And we all know by now... you don't dare even mouseover double underlined text.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>let the paywalls go up.i 'll be the one to write a firefox extension that double underlines all paywall sites .
And we all know by now... you do n't dare even mouseover double underlined text .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>let the paywalls go up.i'll be the one to write a firefox extension that double underlines all paywall sites.
And we all know by now... you don't dare even mouseover double underlined text.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30330300</id>
	<title>WSJ</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259927400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wall Street Journal is the same way... I see an article, I go for it.. wait.. WSJ?  don't even bother opening up the tab.  It's closed before I know/care whether the content is there or not.</p><p>I've yet to see a WSJ headline that has enticed me enough to actually look for it elsewhere.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wall Street Journal is the same way... I see an article , I go for it.. wait.. WSJ ?
do n't even bother opening up the tab .
It 's closed before I know/care whether the content is there or not.I 've yet to see a WSJ headline that has enticed me enough to actually look for it elsewhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wall Street Journal is the same way... I see an article, I go for it.. wait.. WSJ?
don't even bother opening up the tab.
It's closed before I know/care whether the content is there or not.I've yet to see a WSJ headline that has enticed me enough to actually look for it elsewhere.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30330692</id>
	<title>Re:How paywalls could work</title>
	<author>shirotakaaki</author>
	<datestamp>1259929740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I do pay for a pass monthly to millions of sites. It's called <i>internet access</i>. Unfortunately the people that provide access don't provide content. So independent publishers need to find some kind of alternate way to make money. I am not paying twice.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do pay for a pass monthly to millions of sites .
It 's called internet access .
Unfortunately the people that provide access do n't provide content .
So independent publishers need to find some kind of alternate way to make money .
I am not paying twice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I do pay for a pass monthly to millions of sites.
It's called internet access.
Unfortunately the people that provide access don't provide content.
So independent publishers need to find some kind of alternate way to make money.
I am not paying twice.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328882</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30332876</id>
	<title>MOD PARENT UP</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259951100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You've hit on the what I think is the central problem of micropayments.  I'm not going to register my credit card or Paypal details at dozens of sites.  But if I can pay thru 1 middleman, there's a lot of content online that I might buy.</p><p>Apple managed to do this with the squabbling, web-phobic record labels by creating iTunes.  But no one has yet done it for newspapers and magazines.</p><p>I've often thought that the most ideal system would be to have your ISP do the billing -- they're someone you already send money to every month, so adding on a few bucks would be like adding a bit to your cable bill when you buy a premium movie.  (Your internet bill may in fact BE your cable bill.)</p><p>But Google, Amazon, Paypal, or some other company with a broad reach could do this too.  It would be best if there were at least a few of them, all broadly accepted, to avoid a monopolistic situation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 've hit on the what I think is the central problem of micropayments .
I 'm not going to register my credit card or Paypal details at dozens of sites .
But if I can pay thru 1 middleman , there 's a lot of content online that I might buy.Apple managed to do this with the squabbling , web-phobic record labels by creating iTunes .
But no one has yet done it for newspapers and magazines.I 've often thought that the most ideal system would be to have your ISP do the billing -- they 're someone you already send money to every month , so adding on a few bucks would be like adding a bit to your cable bill when you buy a premium movie .
( Your internet bill may in fact BE your cable bill .
) But Google , Amazon , Paypal , or some other company with a broad reach could do this too .
It would be best if there were at least a few of them , all broadly accepted , to avoid a monopolistic situation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You've hit on the what I think is the central problem of micropayments.
I'm not going to register my credit card or Paypal details at dozens of sites.
But if I can pay thru 1 middleman, there's a lot of content online that I might buy.Apple managed to do this with the squabbling, web-phobic record labels by creating iTunes.
But no one has yet done it for newspapers and magazines.I've often thought that the most ideal system would be to have your ISP do the billing -- they're someone you already send money to every month, so adding on a few bucks would be like adding a bit to your cable bill when you buy a premium movie.
(Your internet bill may in fact BE your cable bill.
)But Google, Amazon, Paypal, or some other company with a broad reach could do this too.
It would be best if there were at least a few of them, all broadly accepted, to avoid a monopolistic situation.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328882</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328898</id>
	<title>They opened up?</title>
	<author>Perp Atuitie</author>
	<datestamp>1259921340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I used to go there all the time. Assumed there was still a paywall or equivalent. The psychological thing is interesting -- even if it's perfectly open now I'd have to overcome some kind of habitual negative association to start again. The other thing, of course, is that everybody that didn't want to pay found good-enough alternatives in the meantime and don't necessarily want to put another name on their dance card. Rosenberg has the psychology exactly right.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to go there all the time .
Assumed there was still a paywall or equivalent .
The psychological thing is interesting -- even if it 's perfectly open now I 'd have to overcome some kind of habitual negative association to start again .
The other thing , of course , is that everybody that did n't want to pay found good-enough alternatives in the meantime and do n't necessarily want to put another name on their dance card .
Rosenberg has the psychology exactly right .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to go there all the time.
Assumed there was still a paywall or equivalent.
The psychological thing is interesting -- even if it's perfectly open now I'd have to overcome some kind of habitual negative association to start again.
The other thing, of course, is that everybody that didn't want to pay found good-enough alternatives in the meantime and don't necessarily want to put another name on their dance card.
Rosenberg has the psychology exactly right.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329140</id>
	<title>God as my witness, I didn't know they were free</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259922300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>God as my witness, I didn't know they were free.<br>It really is that long-lasting.</p><p>Salon thought they were the Wall Street Journal.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>God as my witness , I did n't know they were free.It really is that long-lasting.Salon thought they were the Wall Street Journal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>God as my witness, I didn't know they were free.It really is that long-lasting.Salon thought they were the Wall Street Journal.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30330088</id>
	<title>Paywalls have holes</title>
	<author>brundlefly</author>
	<datestamp>1259926440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Many, many paywalls have huge holes in them.  I read Salon.com for years without paying -- I just told them I was Googlebot.  Works for tons of sites.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Many , many paywalls have huge holes in them .
I read Salon.com for years without paying -- I just told them I was Googlebot .
Works for tons of sites .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many, many paywalls have huge holes in them.
I read Salon.com for years without paying -- I just told them I was Googlebot.
Works for tons of sites.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328838</id>
	<title>Re:What?</title>
	<author>TheRaven64</author>
	<datestamp>1259920980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't think I've ever visited the site, but I remember reading about them becoming payer-only on El Reg a few years ago.  Since then I've not bothered clicking on links to Salon because I didn't want to go to a site and then be told I couldn't access the content.  I don't know how long they've been ad supported for, but he's right about one thing: the paywall experiment drove at least one potential reader away.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think I 've ever visited the site , but I remember reading about them becoming payer-only on El Reg a few years ago .
Since then I 've not bothered clicking on links to Salon because I did n't want to go to a site and then be told I could n't access the content .
I do n't know how long they 've been ad supported for , but he 's right about one thing : the paywall experiment drove at least one potential reader away .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think I've ever visited the site, but I remember reading about them becoming payer-only on El Reg a few years ago.
Since then I've not bothered clicking on links to Salon because I didn't want to go to a site and then be told I couldn't access the content.
I don't know how long they've been ad supported for, but he's right about one thing: the paywall experiment drove at least one potential reader away.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328456</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30331312</id>
	<title>Shut Up !!!</title>
	<author>Weezul</author>
	<datestamp>1259934000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Shut the fuck up!  Murdock is about to institute pay walls!  We want him gone!  Please  please shut up!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Shut the fuck up !
Murdock is about to institute pay walls !
We want him gone !
Please please shut up !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Shut the fuck up!
Murdock is about to institute pay walls!
We want him gone!
Please  please shut up!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328456</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328468</id>
	<title>Did not RTFA</title>
	<author>Hadlock</author>
	<datestamp>1259919360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Did salon remove their paywall? I thought they went paywall in 2001 or so.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did salon remove their paywall ?
I thought they went paywall in 2001 or so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did salon remove their paywall?
I thought they went paywall in 2001 or so.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328490</id>
	<title>salon.com?</title>
	<author>bl8n8r</author>
	<datestamp>1259919420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Is that a hairstylist blog or something?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is that a hairstylist blog or something ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is that a hairstylist blog or something?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329130</id>
	<title>Re:Makes me wonder...</title>
	<author>Ash Vince</author>
	<datestamp>1259922240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Incidentally, you can sign up for experts exchange and get access to the answers without paying. You just need to sign up as an expert and post some useful answers that help other people regularly.</p><p>The paywall only applies to people who only want answers without ever giving any back. I know they make you dig a little on the site to find out how to sign up for free, but real experts generally are quite good at digging out answers so should not find this too hard.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Incidentally , you can sign up for experts exchange and get access to the answers without paying .
You just need to sign up as an expert and post some useful answers that help other people regularly.The paywall only applies to people who only want answers without ever giving any back .
I know they make you dig a little on the site to find out how to sign up for free , but real experts generally are quite good at digging out answers so should not find this too hard .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Incidentally, you can sign up for experts exchange and get access to the answers without paying.
You just need to sign up as an expert and post some useful answers that help other people regularly.The paywall only applies to people who only want answers without ever giving any back.
I know they make you dig a little on the site to find out how to sign up for free, but real experts generally are quite good at digging out answers so should not find this too hard.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328774</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328494</id>
	<title>Sshhh!</title>
	<author>dswensen</author>
	<datestamp>1259919420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Keep it to yourself, will you? If Rupert Murdoch gets wind of this, he might change his mind about cordoning Fox News off from the rest of the Internet!</p><p>Actually, probably not.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Keep it to yourself , will you ?
If Rupert Murdoch gets wind of this , he might change his mind about cordoning Fox News off from the rest of the Internet ! Actually , probably not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Keep it to yourself, will you?
If Rupert Murdoch gets wind of this, he might change his mind about cordoning Fox News off from the rest of the Internet!Actually, probably not.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328962</id>
	<title>Re:Makes me wonder...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259921640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>There is no paywall. Just scroll right to the bottom of the page.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There is no paywall .
Just scroll right to the bottom of the page .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is no paywall.
Just scroll right to the bottom of the page.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328774</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30330510</id>
	<title>Re:paywalls without a sane business model?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259928660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Its more likely selling it at a loss. I don't know where people get this idea that it costs nothing to put legacy stuff up on the web, but it costs quite a bit with software upgrades, T1 connections and so forth. And that university library you went to, the cost to them of having a book or journal on the shelf is between $65-270 per year (heating, lighting staff etc..) so it wasn't free there either, your students paid for it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Its more likely selling it at a loss .
I do n't know where people get this idea that it costs nothing to put legacy stuff up on the web , but it costs quite a bit with software upgrades , T1 connections and so forth .
And that university library you went to , the cost to them of having a book or journal on the shelf is between $ 65-270 per year ( heating , lighting staff etc.. ) so it was n't free there either , your students paid for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its more likely selling it at a loss.
I don't know where people get this idea that it costs nothing to put legacy stuff up on the web, but it costs quite a bit with software upgrades, T1 connections and so forth.
And that university library you went to, the cost to them of having a book or journal on the shelf is between $65-270 per year (heating, lighting staff etc..) so it wasn't free there either, your students paid for it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328958</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328688</id>
	<title>Irony</title>
	<author>ojintoad</author>
	<datestamp>1259920260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Everyone here is surprised Salon had dropped the pay wall and is reacting to that.  It seems the solution is to have a meta discussion about the effects of dropping your pay wall as a means to spread knowledge that it was dropped in the first place.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Everyone here is surprised Salon had dropped the pay wall and is reacting to that .
It seems the solution is to have a meta discussion about the effects of dropping your pay wall as a means to spread knowledge that it was dropped in the first place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everyone here is surprised Salon had dropped the pay wall and is reacting to that.
It seems the solution is to have a meta discussion about the effects of dropping your pay wall as a means to spread knowledge that it was dropped in the first place.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328742</id>
	<title>Good frikkin lord...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259920620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If I have to read another &ldquo;funny&rdquo; comment saying &ldquo;what! salon.com dropped their paywall?&rdquo;, I think I&rsquo;m going to scream.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If I have to read another    funny    comment saying    what !
salon.com dropped their paywall ?    , I think I    m going to scream .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I have to read another “funny” comment saying “what!
salon.com dropped their paywall?”, I think I’m going to scream.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30330322</id>
	<title>Re:What?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259927580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>News to me too; I trained myself years ago to skip any links pointed there and didn't realize that they had changed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>News to me too ; I trained myself years ago to skip any links pointed there and did n't realize that they had changed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>News to me too; I trained myself years ago to skip any links pointed there and didn't realize that they had changed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328456</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328800</id>
	<title>What?!</title>
	<author>zippthorne</author>
	<datestamp>1259920800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Salon.com is still in business?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Salon.com is still in business ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Salon.com is still in business?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328882</id>
	<title>How paywalls could work</title>
	<author>cowtamer</author>
	<datestamp>1259921280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As much as I don't like it as a user, I believe the "paywall" approach would work if there was one dominant way to pay for a "pass" (or a micropayment account) that would unlock millions of sites.</p><p>I have no interest in paying for a Salon (or a Slashdot) subscription, but I could see myself paying $7/month to "Google Paywall" if it unlocked millions of sites for me.</p><p>Of course, it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to compete with the psychology of "free", and I would hate the privacy implications of having to identify myself to every site I visit, even if it were trivially cheap...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As much as I do n't like it as a user , I believe the " paywall " approach would work if there was one dominant way to pay for a " pass " ( or a micropayment account ) that would unlock millions of sites.I have no interest in paying for a Salon ( or a Slashdot ) subscription , but I could see myself paying $ 7/month to " Google Paywall " if it unlocked millions of sites for me.Of course , it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to compete with the psychology of " free " , and I would hate the privacy implications of having to identify myself to every site I visit , even if it were trivially cheap.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As much as I don't like it as a user, I believe the "paywall" approach would work if there was one dominant way to pay for a "pass" (or a micropayment account) that would unlock millions of sites.I have no interest in paying for a Salon (or a Slashdot) subscription, but I could see myself paying $7/month to "Google Paywall" if it unlocked millions of sites for me.Of course, it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to compete with the psychology of "free", and I would hate the privacy implications of having to identify myself to every site I visit, even if it were trivially cheap...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328814</id>
	<title>Re:I got tired of them when they went too far to .</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259920860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I like to think of FOX and Salon like Wikipedia: Occasionally they point you to something interesting but you'd better verify what they say elsewhere.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I like to think of FOX and Salon like Wikipedia : Occasionally they point you to something interesting but you 'd better verify what they say elsewhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I like to think of FOX and Salon like Wikipedia: Occasionally they point you to something interesting but you'd better verify what they say elsewhere.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328504</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328958</id>
	<title>paywalls without a sane business model?</title>
	<author>bcrowell</author>
	<datestamp>1259921640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What I don't understand is paywalls that seem to have been erected without any sane business model in mind. For instance, <a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?\_ob=ArticleURL&amp;\_udi=B6TVC-4719PBM-1Y7&amp;\_user=10&amp;\_rdoc=1&amp;\_fmt=&amp;\_orig=search&amp;\_sort=d&amp;\_docanchor=&amp;view=c&amp;\_acct=C000050221&amp;\_version=1&amp;\_urlVersion=0&amp;\_userid=10&amp;md5=68b54c23ee01a169f47a5cc57b169dfc" title="sciencedirect.com">here</a> [sciencedirect.com] is a physics paper that I needed to look up today. It describes a particle-physics experiment from 1979 that, as a side benefit, ended up producing one of the classic high-precision tests of special relativity. I teach at a community college, so we don't have scientific journals at the library. My wife teaches at a university, so she has electronic access to journals, but the access to this particular publisher's journal only goes back to 1995. So I find the article online, behind a paywall, and I'm all set to pay $10 for a copy, just to avoid the hassle of going to a university library and photocopying it. I click through on the link to buy a copy, and they want $31.50. That's just crazy. Since the price was insane, it motivated me to get in the car, drive 20 minutes to a university library, and find the article down in the basement stacks where they put old journals.</p><p>
To me, this seems like totally irrational behavior on the part of the publisher. For any product you want to sell, there has to be a price that optimizes your profit. Price it too high, and you don't get enough volume. Price it too low, and you get volume, but not enough of a profit margin. I simply can't believe that $31.50 is the sane, profit-optimizing price for a single academic paper from 1979 -- especially not when it's electronic, so the marginal cost of distribution per copy is essentially zero. My guess is that some of these traditional print publishers simply have their heads in the sand. They believe that the advent of digital music has decimated the music business, so the lesson they take home is that anything digital is like dog poop -- don't touch it, or something bad will happen to you and your business.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What I do n't understand is paywalls that seem to have been erected without any sane business model in mind .
For instance , here [ sciencedirect.com ] is a physics paper that I needed to look up today .
It describes a particle-physics experiment from 1979 that , as a side benefit , ended up producing one of the classic high-precision tests of special relativity .
I teach at a community college , so we do n't have scientific journals at the library .
My wife teaches at a university , so she has electronic access to journals , but the access to this particular publisher 's journal only goes back to 1995 .
So I find the article online , behind a paywall , and I 'm all set to pay $ 10 for a copy , just to avoid the hassle of going to a university library and photocopying it .
I click through on the link to buy a copy , and they want $ 31.50 .
That 's just crazy .
Since the price was insane , it motivated me to get in the car , drive 20 minutes to a university library , and find the article down in the basement stacks where they put old journals .
To me , this seems like totally irrational behavior on the part of the publisher .
For any product you want to sell , there has to be a price that optimizes your profit .
Price it too high , and you do n't get enough volume .
Price it too low , and you get volume , but not enough of a profit margin .
I simply ca n't believe that $ 31.50 is the sane , profit-optimizing price for a single academic paper from 1979 -- especially not when it 's electronic , so the marginal cost of distribution per copy is essentially zero .
My guess is that some of these traditional print publishers simply have their heads in the sand .
They believe that the advent of digital music has decimated the music business , so the lesson they take home is that anything digital is like dog poop -- do n't touch it , or something bad will happen to you and your business .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What I don't understand is paywalls that seem to have been erected without any sane business model in mind.
For instance, here [sciencedirect.com] is a physics paper that I needed to look up today.
It describes a particle-physics experiment from 1979 that, as a side benefit, ended up producing one of the classic high-precision tests of special relativity.
I teach at a community college, so we don't have scientific journals at the library.
My wife teaches at a university, so she has electronic access to journals, but the access to this particular publisher's journal only goes back to 1995.
So I find the article online, behind a paywall, and I'm all set to pay $10 for a copy, just to avoid the hassle of going to a university library and photocopying it.
I click through on the link to buy a copy, and they want $31.50.
That's just crazy.
Since the price was insane, it motivated me to get in the car, drive 20 minutes to a university library, and find the article down in the basement stacks where they put old journals.
To me, this seems like totally irrational behavior on the part of the publisher.
For any product you want to sell, there has to be a price that optimizes your profit.
Price it too high, and you don't get enough volume.
Price it too low, and you get volume, but not enough of a profit margin.
I simply can't believe that $31.50 is the sane, profit-optimizing price for a single academic paper from 1979 -- especially not when it's electronic, so the marginal cost of distribution per copy is essentially zero.
My guess is that some of these traditional print publishers simply have their heads in the sand.
They believe that the advent of digital music has decimated the music business, so the lesson they take home is that anything digital is like dog poop -- don't touch it, or something bad will happen to you and your business.
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329184</id>
	<title>Re:Did Salon drop their paywall?</title>
	<author>TubeSteak</author>
	<datestamp>1259922480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The link for the daypass cookie was easily found for anyone who cared to look<br><a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=salon+cookie756" title="google.com">http://www.google.com/search?q=salon+cookie756</a> [google.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The link for the daypass cookie was easily found for anyone who cared to lookhttp : //www.google.com/search ? q = salon + cookie756 [ google.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The link for the daypass cookie was easily found for anyone who cared to lookhttp://www.google.com/search?q=salon+cookie756 [google.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328464</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328654</id>
	<title>Re:What?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259920140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Does the New York Times still do it? I just assumed it did. Maybe I'll take another look.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does the New York Times still do it ?
I just assumed it did .
Maybe I 'll take another look .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does the New York Times still do it?
I just assumed it did.
Maybe I'll take another look.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328456</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328916</id>
	<title>Re:Do women need affordable botox?</title>
	<author>Jeremy Erwin</author>
	<datestamp>1259921400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some of the health care proposals tax elective cosmetic surgery. Since women elect to have cosmetic surgery more often than men, it's could be argued that the burden of paying for national health care will fall disproportionally on women. If you don't care for Feminism, don't read broadsheet. If you don't care for serious feminism, stick to Jezebel.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some of the health care proposals tax elective cosmetic surgery .
Since women elect to have cosmetic surgery more often than men , it 's could be argued that the burden of paying for national health care will fall disproportionally on women .
If you do n't care for Feminism , do n't read broadsheet .
If you do n't care for serious feminism , stick to Jezebel .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some of the health care proposals tax elective cosmetic surgery.
Since women elect to have cosmetic surgery more often than men, it's could be argued that the burden of paying for national health care will fall disproportionally on women.
If you don't care for Feminism, don't read broadsheet.
If you don't care for serious feminism, stick to Jezebel.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328676</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30331590</id>
	<title>Re:What?</title>
	<author>roguetrick</author>
	<datestamp>1259936040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>NYT's paywall has to do with the articles archived but still in copyright.  I think out of copyright archives are free though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>NYT 's paywall has to do with the articles archived but still in copyright .
I think out of copyright archives are free though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>NYT's paywall has to do with the articles archived but still in copyright.
I think out of copyright archives are free though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328654</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30331608</id>
	<title>Re:What?</title>
	<author>lophophore</author>
	<datestamp>1259936160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to read Salon a fair bit, but after their paywall went up, never.</p><p>as far as I am concerned, they fucked themselves.  And even if it's free now, the mindshare has been lost, there's better content on boing boing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to read Salon a fair bit , but after their paywall went up , never.as far as I am concerned , they fucked themselves .
And even if it 's free now , the mindshare has been lost , there 's better content on boing boing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to read Salon a fair bit, but after their paywall went up, never.as far as I am concerned, they fucked themselves.
And even if it's free now, the mindshare has been lost, there's better content on boing boing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328456</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30330400</id>
	<title>Re:paywalls without a sane business model?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259928000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Its simple as whatever person came up with this did this.  'we have X readers now if we increase the price by Y we will get Z more profit'.  What they fail to realize is an \%A of those readers will just not buy anymore also you alienate a \%B of new customers.  Now the question is after \%A leaves do is Z bigger than what you had before.  Many do not ask that.  They just do the first part and gloss over the second part.  Then by the time the change is in no one remembers who came up with the idea in the first place so it just 'is'.  No one even bothers to think if I lower the price would I end up with more.  Because they have NO idea what their margin is in the first place.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Its simple as whatever person came up with this did this .
'we have X readers now if we increase the price by Y we will get Z more profit' .
What they fail to realize is an \ % A of those readers will just not buy anymore also you alienate a \ % B of new customers .
Now the question is after \ % A leaves do is Z bigger than what you had before .
Many do not ask that .
They just do the first part and gloss over the second part .
Then by the time the change is in no one remembers who came up with the idea in the first place so it just 'is' .
No one even bothers to think if I lower the price would I end up with more .
Because they have NO idea what their margin is in the first place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its simple as whatever person came up with this did this.
'we have X readers now if we increase the price by Y we will get Z more profit'.
What they fail to realize is an \%A of those readers will just not buy anymore also you alienate a \%B of new customers.
Now the question is after \%A leaves do is Z bigger than what you had before.
Many do not ask that.
They just do the first part and gloss over the second part.
Then by the time the change is in no one remembers who came up with the idea in the first place so it just 'is'.
No one even bothers to think if I lower the price would I end up with more.
Because they have NO idea what their margin is in the first place.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328958</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329282</id>
	<title>Re:paywalls without a sane business model?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259922960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I simply can't believe that $31.50 is the sane, profit-optimizing price for a single academic paper from 1979 -- especially not when it's electronic, so the marginal cost of distribution per copy is essentially zero</p></div></blockquote><p>
You think you've got troubles... try finding service manuals for A/V equipment. I'm not doing this professionally; I'm just trying to keep useful gear out of the landfill (and in my living room<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
</p><p>
90\% of the links are robot-generated spam pages.  10\% of the links are pirated versions of the service manuals... behind paywalls, and the prices vary from $10 to $50 for the pirated copies.  Most manufacturers are <em>beginning</em> to make the content available, but their prices aren't much better (yes, the legit prices are usually around $30ish) than those of the pirates.
</p><p>
And then you've got middlemen like scribd -- which is sometimes where the service-manual hosting sites store "their" content.  Great, here's a 100-page manual that explains everything I need to know to revive this dumpster-dived flat-screen!  But it's not in PDF, it's in Flash.  And the "print" button works just fine, but if your print spooler isn't done in 60 seconds, that's all you get.  (Seriously -- a 100-page manual, 15 pages of which would print-to-PDF on a slow machine, and 80 of which would print-to-PDF on a faster machine.  The only common ground was that there was a <a href="http://soumyadipc.blogspot.com/2008/09/download-files-without-download-option.html" title="blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">60-second timeout</a> [blogspot.com] in the Flash, which was so rifuckulous that I didn't believe it until I googled it and found that link.  Scribd isn't even in the <em>business</em> of charging for content -- all their content is user-uploaded.  The YouTube analogy would be that you can watch any video you want, as long as you consume fewer than 10 CPU-seconds of system time to render it.  WTF?)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I simply ca n't believe that $ 31.50 is the sane , profit-optimizing price for a single academic paper from 1979 -- especially not when it 's electronic , so the marginal cost of distribution per copy is essentially zero You think you 've got troubles... try finding service manuals for A/V equipment .
I 'm not doing this professionally ; I 'm just trying to keep useful gear out of the landfill ( and in my living room : ) 90 \ % of the links are robot-generated spam pages .
10 \ % of the links are pirated versions of the service manuals... behind paywalls , and the prices vary from $ 10 to $ 50 for the pirated copies .
Most manufacturers are beginning to make the content available , but their prices are n't much better ( yes , the legit prices are usually around $ 30ish ) than those of the pirates .
And then you 've got middlemen like scribd -- which is sometimes where the service-manual hosting sites store " their " content .
Great , here 's a 100-page manual that explains everything I need to know to revive this dumpster-dived flat-screen !
But it 's not in PDF , it 's in Flash .
And the " print " button works just fine , but if your print spooler is n't done in 60 seconds , that 's all you get .
( Seriously -- a 100-page manual , 15 pages of which would print-to-PDF on a slow machine , and 80 of which would print-to-PDF on a faster machine .
The only common ground was that there was a 60-second timeout [ blogspot.com ] in the Flash , which was so rifuckulous that I did n't believe it until I googled it and found that link .
Scribd is n't even in the business of charging for content -- all their content is user-uploaded .
The YouTube analogy would be that you can watch any video you want , as long as you consume fewer than 10 CPU-seconds of system time to render it .
WTF ? )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I simply can't believe that $31.50 is the sane, profit-optimizing price for a single academic paper from 1979 -- especially not when it's electronic, so the marginal cost of distribution per copy is essentially zero
You think you've got troubles... try finding service manuals for A/V equipment.
I'm not doing this professionally; I'm just trying to keep useful gear out of the landfill (and in my living room :)

90\% of the links are robot-generated spam pages.
10\% of the links are pirated versions of the service manuals... behind paywalls, and the prices vary from $10 to $50 for the pirated copies.
Most manufacturers are beginning to make the content available, but their prices aren't much better (yes, the legit prices are usually around $30ish) than those of the pirates.
And then you've got middlemen like scribd -- which is sometimes where the service-manual hosting sites store "their" content.
Great, here's a 100-page manual that explains everything I need to know to revive this dumpster-dived flat-screen!
But it's not in PDF, it's in Flash.
And the "print" button works just fine, but if your print spooler isn't done in 60 seconds, that's all you get.
(Seriously -- a 100-page manual, 15 pages of which would print-to-PDF on a slow machine, and 80 of which would print-to-PDF on a faster machine.
The only common ground was that there was a 60-second timeout [blogspot.com] in the Flash, which was so rifuckulous that I didn't believe it until I googled it and found that link.
Scribd isn't even in the business of charging for content -- all their content is user-uploaded.
The YouTube analogy would be that you can watch any video you want, as long as you consume fewer than 10 CPU-seconds of system time to render it.
WTF?)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328958</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329236</id>
	<title>fast forward 10 years</title>
	<author>digitalsushi</author>
	<datestamp>1259922720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fast forward 10 years to the present.  I would gladly pay 30 dollars a month if all the stuff I read online was written by a professional with classical training in english or journalism.  This web2.0 junk means we're all crappy authors who, as I am right now doing, stream their consciousness into textarea boxes, never a second glance at the same sentence for proofediting; rushing to the submit button to beat my peers in the subtle effect that I will feel smarter than everyone who posted thereafter.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fast forward 10 years to the present .
I would gladly pay 30 dollars a month if all the stuff I read online was written by a professional with classical training in english or journalism .
This web2.0 junk means we 're all crappy authors who , as I am right now doing , stream their consciousness into textarea boxes , never a second glance at the same sentence for proofediting ; rushing to the submit button to beat my peers in the subtle effect that I will feel smarter than everyone who posted thereafter .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fast forward 10 years to the present.
I would gladly pay 30 dollars a month if all the stuff I read online was written by a professional with classical training in english or journalism.
This web2.0 junk means we're all crappy authors who, as I am right now doing, stream their consciousness into textarea boxes, never a second glance at the same sentence for proofediting; rushing to the submit button to beat my peers in the subtle effect that I will feel smarter than everyone who posted thereafter.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328522</id>
	<title>He's correct: bootstrap to survive</title>
	<author>ewe2</author>
	<datestamp>1259919540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The money's going to run out, paywalls won't save you. I make the same argument about energy risk management: unless you spend the resources now to transition, by the time you need an alternate source, you can't exploit it. Someone else will take that opportunity for you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The money 's going to run out , paywalls wo n't save you .
I make the same argument about energy risk management : unless you spend the resources now to transition , by the time you need an alternate source , you ca n't exploit it .
Someone else will take that opportunity for you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The money's going to run out, paywalls won't save you.
I make the same argument about energy risk management: unless you spend the resources now to transition, by the time you need an alternate source, you can't exploit it.
Someone else will take that opportunity for you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328868</id>
	<title>What!?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259921160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>salon.com had a paywal!?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>salon.com had a paywal !
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>salon.com had a paywal!
?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30332838</id>
	<title>news to me</title>
	<author>saiha</author>
	<datestamp>1259950680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I could probably check to see if they still have a paywall, but fuck that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I could probably check to see if they still have a paywall , but fuck that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I could probably check to see if they still have a paywall, but fuck that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329226</id>
	<title>Re:What?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259922720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That was the biggest point in TFA -- it's easy to put a paywall up, it's hard to get readers back if you then take it down.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That was the biggest point in TFA -- it 's easy to put a paywall up , it 's hard to get readers back if you then take it down .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That was the biggest point in TFA -- it's easy to put a paywall up, it's hard to get readers back if you then take it down.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328456</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329598</id>
	<title>Re:How paywalls could work</title>
	<author>ShaunC</author>
	<datestamp>1259924580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I believe the "paywall" approach would work if there was one dominant way to pay for a "pass" (or a micropayment account) that would unlock millions of sites.</p></div><p>As with most technologies, the porn industry got this down to a science years ago.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I believe the " paywall " approach would work if there was one dominant way to pay for a " pass " ( or a micropayment account ) that would unlock millions of sites.As with most technologies , the porn industry got this down to a science years ago .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I believe the "paywall" approach would work if there was one dominant way to pay for a "pass" (or a micropayment account) that would unlock millions of sites.As with most technologies, the porn industry got this down to a science years ago.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328882</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329560</id>
	<title>I Tried, Salon Failed Again</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259924340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I just tried Salon, got their main page, then clicked on an article that looked interesting.  A few seconds into it, a large black empty rectangle appeared with a tiny message about clicking on something to proceed in the upper left corner of it.  Thankfully, it only took two clicks of the browser Back button to make it all okay again.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I just tried Salon , got their main page , then clicked on an article that looked interesting .
A few seconds into it , a large black empty rectangle appeared with a tiny message about clicking on something to proceed in the upper left corner of it .
Thankfully , it only took two clicks of the browser Back button to make it all okay again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just tried Salon, got their main page, then clicked on an article that looked interesting.
A few seconds into it, a large black empty rectangle appeared with a tiny message about clicking on something to proceed in the upper left corner of it.
Thankfully, it only took two clicks of the browser Back button to make it all okay again.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329828</id>
	<title>My favorite weekly read, Ask the Pilot,is on Salon</title>
	<author>jdmonin</author>
	<datestamp>1259925600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My favorite weekly column, <a href="http://dir.salon.com/topics/p\_smith" title="salon.com" rel="nofollow">Ask the Pilot</a> [salon.com] by Patrick Smith, is on Salon.  I think a lot of us geeks would enjoy his anecdotes and perspective.  I look forward to it each week, but I wouldn't have gone past a paywall for it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My favorite weekly column , Ask the Pilot [ salon.com ] by Patrick Smith , is on Salon .
I think a lot of us geeks would enjoy his anecdotes and perspective .
I look forward to it each week , but I would n't have gone past a paywall for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My favorite weekly column, Ask the Pilot [salon.com] by Patrick Smith, is on Salon.
I think a lot of us geeks would enjoy his anecdotes and perspective.
I look forward to it each week, but I wouldn't have gone past a paywall for it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329538</id>
	<title>Re:paywalls without a sane business model?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259924160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I teach at a community college, so we don't have scientific journals at the library. My wife teaches at a university, so she has electronic access to journals</p></div><p>You miss the point. You're not the costumer. The universities are. By charging an outrageous per-article price, the publishers muscle universities into subscribing to entire catalogs.</p><p>Of course, in our trying times, university libraries are dropping journal subscriptions left and right. Once this happens enough, the most prominent researches stop publishing with those journals because they know nobody will read their work if they do.</p><p>It will be very interesting to see where the equilibrium settles with this.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I teach at a community college , so we do n't have scientific journals at the library .
My wife teaches at a university , so she has electronic access to journalsYou miss the point .
You 're not the costumer .
The universities are .
By charging an outrageous per-article price , the publishers muscle universities into subscribing to entire catalogs.Of course , in our trying times , university libraries are dropping journal subscriptions left and right .
Once this happens enough , the most prominent researches stop publishing with those journals because they know nobody will read their work if they do.It will be very interesting to see where the equilibrium settles with this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I teach at a community college, so we don't have scientific journals at the library.
My wife teaches at a university, so she has electronic access to journalsYou miss the point.
You're not the costumer.
The universities are.
By charging an outrageous per-article price, the publishers muscle universities into subscribing to entire catalogs.Of course, in our trying times, university libraries are dropping journal subscriptions left and right.
Once this happens enough, the most prominent researches stop publishing with those journals because they know nobody will read their work if they do.It will be very interesting to see where the equilibrium settles with this.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328958</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328676</id>
	<title>Do women need affordable botox?</title>
	<author>Sir\_Lewk</author>
	<datestamp>1259920200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I go to their homepage only to see headlines such as "do women need affordable botox?".  Yeah, I think I'll still avoid salon.com.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I go to their homepage only to see headlines such as " do women need affordable botox ? " .
Yeah , I think I 'll still avoid salon.com .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I go to their homepage only to see headlines such as "do women need affordable botox?".
Yeah, I think I'll still avoid salon.com.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_04_1658230_55</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328958
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30330400
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_04_1658230_9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328456
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30331608
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_04_1658230_29</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328456
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30333654
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_04_1658230_34</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328542
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329312
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_04_1658230_19</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328774
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30331110
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_04_1658230_10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328456
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328722
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_04_1658230_24</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328774
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30329212
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_04_1658230_49</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30328774
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_1658230.30330278
</commentlist>
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