<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_11_28_2353241</id>
	<title>Do You Hate Being Called an "IT Guy?"</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1259402820000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>An anonymous reader writes <i>"The phrase 'IT' is so overused, I'm not sure what it means any more. OK, maybe it's an ego thing, but I spent a lot of years in grad school, lots of years getting good at creating software, and lots of years getting good at creating technical products and I don't want the same label as the intern who fixes windoze. I'm looking at a tech management job at a content company that is trying to become a software company, and they refer to everything about software development, data center operations, and desktop support as 'IT.' I'd like to tell the CEO before I take the job that we have to stop referring to all these people as 'IT people' or I'm not going to be able to attract and retain the top-tier talent that is required. Am I just being petty? Should I just forget it? Change it slowly over time? These folks are really developing products, but we don't normally call software creators 'product developers.' Just call them the 'Tech Department' or the 'Engineering Deptartment?'"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>An anonymous reader writes " The phrase 'IT ' is so overused , I 'm not sure what it means any more .
OK , maybe it 's an ego thing , but I spent a lot of years in grad school , lots of years getting good at creating software , and lots of years getting good at creating technical products and I do n't want the same label as the intern who fixes windoze .
I 'm looking at a tech management job at a content company that is trying to become a software company , and they refer to everything about software development , data center operations , and desktop support as 'IT .
' I 'd like to tell the CEO before I take the job that we have to stop referring to all these people as 'IT people ' or I 'm not going to be able to attract and retain the top-tier talent that is required .
Am I just being petty ?
Should I just forget it ?
Change it slowly over time ?
These folks are really developing products , but we do n't normally call software creators 'product developers .
' Just call them the 'Tech Department ' or the 'Engineering Deptartment ?
' "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An anonymous reader writes "The phrase 'IT' is so overused, I'm not sure what it means any more.
OK, maybe it's an ego thing, but I spent a lot of years in grad school, lots of years getting good at creating software, and lots of years getting good at creating technical products and I don't want the same label as the intern who fixes windoze.
I'm looking at a tech management job at a content company that is trying to become a software company, and they refer to everything about software development, data center operations, and desktop support as 'IT.
' I'd like to tell the CEO before I take the job that we have to stop referring to all these people as 'IT people' or I'm not going to be able to attract and retain the top-tier talent that is required.
Am I just being petty?
Should I just forget it?
Change it slowly over time?
These folks are really developing products, but we don't normally call software creators 'product developers.
' Just call them the 'Tech Department' or the 'Engineering Deptartment?
'"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260052</id>
	<title>GOOD GOD</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259493180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Did the submitter forget his Twitter account password? Is his navel so big that he can't help but gaze into it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did the submitter forget his Twitter account password ?
Is his navel so big that he ca n't help but gaze into it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did the submitter forget his Twitter account password?
Is his navel so big that he can't help but gaze into it?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260962</id>
	<title>Re:Grammar Nazi to the Rescue!</title>
	<author>Kizeh</author>
	<datestamp>1259505780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We ran into a similar issue (does a network admin run the routers or Windows boxes?) and anything with engineer and architect got nixed because those titles imply having passed a professional exam entitling one to the use of said title, and since there are no state approved "network engineer" or "network architect" degrees and exams we couldn't use such terms in titles either.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We ran into a similar issue ( does a network admin run the routers or Windows boxes ?
) and anything with engineer and architect got nixed because those titles imply having passed a professional exam entitling one to the use of said title , and since there are no state approved " network engineer " or " network architect " degrees and exams we could n't use such terms in titles either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We ran into a similar issue (does a network admin run the routers or Windows boxes?
) and anything with engineer and architect got nixed because those titles imply having passed a professional exam entitling one to the use of said title, and since there are no state approved "network engineer" or "network architect" degrees and exams we couldn't use such terms in titles either.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260042</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263166</id>
	<title>Re:IT Guy ?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259526120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>WIkipedia says:</p><p>An It girl or It-girl is a charming, sexy young woman who receives intense media coverage unrelated or disproportional to personal achievements.</p><p>An IT guy must be the exact opposite</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>WIkipedia says : An It girl or It-girl is a charming , sexy young woman who receives intense media coverage unrelated or disproportional to personal achievements.An IT guy must be the exact opposite</tokentext>
<sentencetext>WIkipedia says:An It girl or It-girl is a charming, sexy young woman who receives intense media coverage unrelated or disproportional to personal achievements.An IT guy must be the exact opposite</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260308</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30281176</id>
	<title>Re:I am a software engineer</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1259666100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are a rather inexperienced developer by the sound of it.</p><p>A keyboard can in fact be incompatible.  Its is very RARE, but it DOES happen.  It is often FAR easier for the IT to keep systems in consistent configurations that are known to work than to deal with your retarded quirks.  The machine really is far less flexible than you are, well, than you should be.  You can easily adjust to the different clickiness of the keyboard, the computer may very well not be able to adjust to extremely minor voltage differences.</p><p>Another indication of your lack of experience is that you're upset  about the loss of POP and SMTP support.  I can see being upset about losing IMAP and SMTP support, but POP needs to die sooner rather than later at any company worth its salt.</p><p>IE supports different authentication methods than Firefox.  NTLM auth actually works in IE with IIS, FireFox, Kerberos and IIS are much more flacky and tend to stop working for what appears to be random reasons.  I use Firefox and Chrome to authentication against IIS using NTLM and Apache using mod\_NTLM or kerberos, do you have any idea how many times IE works perfectly against all of these servers yet both Firefox and Chrome have issues where they do stupid crap like re-authenticating for every request?</p><p>So thanks for posting here, you've just helped prove that you are as much if not more of the problem then your help desk who at least knows what does work.  Its cute that you think because you are a 'software engineer' that you have a clue, but its pretty clear that you're just arrogant and really don't have that much experience with the systems involved, or in fact any sufficiently complex system such as the one you're describing.</p><p>I wish I could just make people such as yourself disappear.  You work for their organization as well.  You are on the same team.  You think you know more than they do about doing the job they do.  You don't, that much is clear.  Do you have any clue how frustrating it is for them to deal with a jackass like yourself that thinks he knows more about doing their job than they do?  Think about how you'd feel if they came to you and told you that you were writing code wrong and provided you with a compiler error from their system that was clearly incorrect?</p><p>Have you ever even had to support or debug your own software in a unknown environment?  Everything about your post wreaks of inexperienced, arrogant, fresh out of ITT tech developer with absolutely no clue of how it works in the real world.  Even end users are better to deal with than people like you, 9 times out of 10 the only problem with end users is getting them to give you information they don't realize is important.  Dealing with someone like you is worse as its fighting with someone who should know better, but instead fights you every step of the way in an effort to establish that you are better than them and that you know more about the problem than the people who deal with it all day long.  Save everyone the trouble and when you call them, drop the fucking attitude and do what they ask, if you actually do what they ask it will then be their problem and it's unlikely you'll ever get any flack from anyone for it.  Fight them like you seem so inclined to do and you'll quickly find yourself on the list of developers to replace for being a pain in the ass to deal with.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are a rather inexperienced developer by the sound of it.A keyboard can in fact be incompatible .
Its is very RARE , but it DOES happen .
It is often FAR easier for the IT to keep systems in consistent configurations that are known to work than to deal with your retarded quirks .
The machine really is far less flexible than you are , well , than you should be .
You can easily adjust to the different clickiness of the keyboard , the computer may very well not be able to adjust to extremely minor voltage differences.Another indication of your lack of experience is that you 're upset about the loss of POP and SMTP support .
I can see being upset about losing IMAP and SMTP support , but POP needs to die sooner rather than later at any company worth its salt.IE supports different authentication methods than Firefox .
NTLM auth actually works in IE with IIS , FireFox , Kerberos and IIS are much more flacky and tend to stop working for what appears to be random reasons .
I use Firefox and Chrome to authentication against IIS using NTLM and Apache using mod \ _NTLM or kerberos , do you have any idea how many times IE works perfectly against all of these servers yet both Firefox and Chrome have issues where they do stupid crap like re-authenticating for every request ? So thanks for posting here , you 've just helped prove that you are as much if not more of the problem then your help desk who at least knows what does work .
Its cute that you think because you are a 'software engineer ' that you have a clue , but its pretty clear that you 're just arrogant and really do n't have that much experience with the systems involved , or in fact any sufficiently complex system such as the one you 're describing.I wish I could just make people such as yourself disappear .
You work for their organization as well .
You are on the same team .
You think you know more than they do about doing the job they do .
You do n't , that much is clear .
Do you have any clue how frustrating it is for them to deal with a jackass like yourself that thinks he knows more about doing their job than they do ?
Think about how you 'd feel if they came to you and told you that you were writing code wrong and provided you with a compiler error from their system that was clearly incorrect ? Have you ever even had to support or debug your own software in a unknown environment ?
Everything about your post wreaks of inexperienced , arrogant , fresh out of ITT tech developer with absolutely no clue of how it works in the real world .
Even end users are better to deal with than people like you , 9 times out of 10 the only problem with end users is getting them to give you information they do n't realize is important .
Dealing with someone like you is worse as its fighting with someone who should know better , but instead fights you every step of the way in an effort to establish that you are better than them and that you know more about the problem than the people who deal with it all day long .
Save everyone the trouble and when you call them , drop the fucking attitude and do what they ask , if you actually do what they ask it will then be their problem and it 's unlikely you 'll ever get any flack from anyone for it .
Fight them like you seem so inclined to do and you 'll quickly find yourself on the list of developers to replace for being a pain in the ass to deal with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are a rather inexperienced developer by the sound of it.A keyboard can in fact be incompatible.
Its is very RARE, but it DOES happen.
It is often FAR easier for the IT to keep systems in consistent configurations that are known to work than to deal with your retarded quirks.
The machine really is far less flexible than you are, well, than you should be.
You can easily adjust to the different clickiness of the keyboard, the computer may very well not be able to adjust to extremely minor voltage differences.Another indication of your lack of experience is that you're upset  about the loss of POP and SMTP support.
I can see being upset about losing IMAP and SMTP support, but POP needs to die sooner rather than later at any company worth its salt.IE supports different authentication methods than Firefox.
NTLM auth actually works in IE with IIS, FireFox, Kerberos and IIS are much more flacky and tend to stop working for what appears to be random reasons.
I use Firefox and Chrome to authentication against IIS using NTLM and Apache using mod\_NTLM or kerberos, do you have any idea how many times IE works perfectly against all of these servers yet both Firefox and Chrome have issues where they do stupid crap like re-authenticating for every request?So thanks for posting here, you've just helped prove that you are as much if not more of the problem then your help desk who at least knows what does work.
Its cute that you think because you are a 'software engineer' that you have a clue, but its pretty clear that you're just arrogant and really don't have that much experience with the systems involved, or in fact any sufficiently complex system such as the one you're describing.I wish I could just make people such as yourself disappear.
You work for their organization as well.
You are on the same team.
You think you know more than they do about doing the job they do.
You don't, that much is clear.
Do you have any clue how frustrating it is for them to deal with a jackass like yourself that thinks he knows more about doing their job than they do?
Think about how you'd feel if they came to you and told you that you were writing code wrong and provided you with a compiler error from their system that was clearly incorrect?Have you ever even had to support or debug your own software in a unknown environment?
Everything about your post wreaks of inexperienced, arrogant, fresh out of ITT tech developer with absolutely no clue of how it works in the real world.
Even end users are better to deal with than people like you, 9 times out of 10 the only problem with end users is getting them to give you information they don't realize is important.
Dealing with someone like you is worse as its fighting with someone who should know better, but instead fights you every step of the way in an effort to establish that you are better than them and that you know more about the problem than the people who deal with it all day long.
Save everyone the trouble and when you call them, drop the fucking attitude and do what they ask, if you actually do what they ask it will then be their problem and it's unlikely you'll ever get any flack from anyone for it.
Fight them like you seem so inclined to do and you'll quickly find yourself on the list of developers to replace for being a pain in the ass to deal with.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260774</id>
	<title>Re:Petty?</title>
	<author>ls671</author>
	<datestamp>1259503440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What do you mean ?</p><p>John Doe,<br>Senior Artificial Intelligence Architect, Coordinator, MSc, PMP, PO,<br>CBAP, PhD, MBA, Senior Rocket Scientist.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What do you mean ? John Doe,Senior Artificial Intelligence Architect , Coordinator , MSc , PMP , PO,CBAP , PhD , MBA , Senior Rocket Scientist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What do you mean ?John Doe,Senior Artificial Intelligence Architect, Coordinator, MSc, PMP, PO,CBAP, PhD, MBA, Senior Rocket Scientist.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260046</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260948</id>
	<title>Position name translator</title>
	<author>tchiwam</author>
	<datestamp>1259505600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>CEO : The real boss<br>COO : Over paid secretary Really I've seen secretaries who made the companies go much better than their COO<br>CTO : I used to know what I talk about Technology<br>Technical manager : I am the guy everyone ask funny questions to<br>Sales manager : I take the credit for the income and also the guy who is responsible for the color of the it dude.<br>System Engineer: I just got my paper so I know how to do it and don't need to read the docs<br>Sr System Engineer : I've done this long enough to know it won't work anyway<br>Sales monkey: I really know that I am just a sales dude with a commission and I might have a clue of what I sell actually does<br>Tech monkey: I make the thing, I know how it works but can't document it.<br>It dude : the pale guy in that corner who worked all night to get our delivery done.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>CEO : The real bossCOO : Over paid secretary Really I 've seen secretaries who made the companies go much better than their COOCTO : I used to know what I talk about TechnologyTechnical manager : I am the guy everyone ask funny questions toSales manager : I take the credit for the income and also the guy who is responsible for the color of the it dude.System Engineer : I just got my paper so I know how to do it and do n't need to read the docsSr System Engineer : I 've done this long enough to know it wo n't work anywaySales monkey : I really know that I am just a sales dude with a commission and I might have a clue of what I sell actually doesTech monkey : I make the thing , I know how it works but ca n't document it.It dude : the pale guy in that corner who worked all night to get our delivery done .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>CEO : The real bossCOO : Over paid secretary Really I've seen secretaries who made the companies go much better than their COOCTO : I used to know what I talk about TechnologyTechnical manager : I am the guy everyone ask funny questions toSales manager : I take the credit for the income and also the guy who is responsible for the color of the it dude.System Engineer: I just got my paper so I know how to do it and don't need to read the docsSr System Engineer : I've done this long enough to know it won't work anywaySales monkey: I really know that I am just a sales dude with a commission and I might have a clue of what I sell actually doesTech monkey: I make the thing, I know how it works but can't document it.It dude : the pale guy in that corner who worked all night to get our delivery done.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260724</id>
	<title>Don't take the job</title>
	<author>lucm</author>
	<datestamp>1259502840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;  I'm looking at a tech management job at a content company that is trying to become a software company, and they refer to everything about software development, data center operations, and desktop support as 'IT.' I'd like to tell the CEO before I take the job that we have to stop referring to all these people as 'IT people' or I'm not going to be able to attract and retain the top-tier talent that is required</p><p>If the "CEO" is meeting people for a "tech management" job, then feel free to share your overinflated view of yourself with him, because he obviously like overinflated job titles himself.</p><p>In any case, in the interviews you should definitely bring up your concern with sharing the IT label with the lowly tech people. That way, if you ever get hired, this will mean that you found a company so shallow and phony that you will fit in just right.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; I 'm looking at a tech management job at a content company that is trying to become a software company , and they refer to everything about software development , data center operations , and desktop support as 'IT .
' I 'd like to tell the CEO before I take the job that we have to stop referring to all these people as 'IT people ' or I 'm not going to be able to attract and retain the top-tier talent that is requiredIf the " CEO " is meeting people for a " tech management " job , then feel free to share your overinflated view of yourself with him , because he obviously like overinflated job titles himself.In any case , in the interviews you should definitely bring up your concern with sharing the IT label with the lowly tech people .
That way , if you ever get hired , this will mean that you found a company so shallow and phony that you will fit in just right .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;  I'm looking at a tech management job at a content company that is trying to become a software company, and they refer to everything about software development, data center operations, and desktop support as 'IT.
' I'd like to tell the CEO before I take the job that we have to stop referring to all these people as 'IT people' or I'm not going to be able to attract and retain the top-tier talent that is requiredIf the "CEO" is meeting people for a "tech management" job, then feel free to share your overinflated view of yourself with him, because he obviously like overinflated job titles himself.In any case, in the interviews you should definitely bring up your concern with sharing the IT label with the lowly tech people.
That way, if you ever get hired, this will mean that you found a company so shallow and phony that you will fit in just right.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261230</id>
	<title>Re:Self-important Douchebag</title>
	<author>Overunderrated</author>
	<datestamp>1259508780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Thank you for the concise description of why I hate IT guys.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Thank you for the concise description of why I hate IT guys .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thank you for the concise description of why I hate IT guys.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260180</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264826</id>
	<title>Re:I don't work in IT, but....</title>
	<author>Buelldozer</author>
	<datestamp>1259499180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why is it that your yardstick of "Itness" only revolves around Programming and Linux? Us poor saps who keep your LAN running and maintain your WAN connectivity can have some serious skills of our, they're just different skills than yours.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why is it that your yardstick of " Itness " only revolves around Programming and Linux ?
Us poor saps who keep your LAN running and maintain your WAN connectivity can have some serious skills of our , they 're just different skills than yours .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why is it that your yardstick of "Itness" only revolves around Programming and Linux?
Us poor saps who keep your LAN running and maintain your WAN connectivity can have some serious skills of our, they're just different skills than yours.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262236</id>
	<title>Don't like being called "IT guy"?</title>
	<author>JockTroll</author>
	<datestamp>1259518140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What would you want to be called, "computer nerd"? Like in, "yo, you computer nerd piece-of-shit. get your fat lazy ass here and empty my paper basket. when you're done, clean the toilets. on lunch break, fix my fucking e-mail or I'll replace you with some other dumb geek before you can say 'enterprise'".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What would you want to be called , " computer nerd " ?
Like in , " yo , you computer nerd piece-of-shit .
get your fat lazy ass here and empty my paper basket .
when you 're done , clean the toilets .
on lunch break , fix my fucking e-mail or I 'll replace you with some other dumb geek before you can say 'enterprise ' " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What would you want to be called, "computer nerd"?
Like in, "yo, you computer nerd piece-of-shit.
get your fat lazy ass here and empty my paper basket.
when you're done, clean the toilets.
on lunch break, fix my fucking e-mail or I'll replace you with some other dumb geek before you can say 'enterprise'".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261830</id>
	<title>Get over yourself</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259514660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, you're overreacting. The last place I worked had about 10 different "IT" department. And guess what? All of our customers referred to us as IT. And if it still offends you, well, get over yourself...because they don't see you as any better or different than the "intern who fixes windoze".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , you 're overreacting .
The last place I worked had about 10 different " IT " department .
And guess what ?
All of our customers referred to us as IT .
And if it still offends you , well , get over yourself...because they do n't see you as any better or different than the " intern who fixes windoze " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, you're overreacting.
The last place I worked had about 10 different "IT" department.
And guess what?
All of our customers referred to us as IT.
And if it still offends you, well, get over yourself...because they don't see you as any better or different than the "intern who fixes windoze".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260732</id>
	<title>Modify the Title</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259502900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The solution is simple.  You just need to choose the descriptive title that comes with 'IT guy'.</p><p>The lowest member of the team gets the position title of Vice President.  Then you can get fancy with Executive Vice President, Distinguished Vice President, Senior Vice President, and so on...</p><p>Now when they call the help desk, they get to talk to the Distinguished Senior Vice President of Reliability Engineering IT guy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The solution is simple .
You just need to choose the descriptive title that comes with 'IT guy'.The lowest member of the team gets the position title of Vice President .
Then you can get fancy with Executive Vice President , Distinguished Vice President , Senior Vice President , and so on...Now when they call the help desk , they get to talk to the Distinguished Senior Vice President of Reliability Engineering IT guy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The solution is simple.
You just need to choose the descriptive title that comes with 'IT guy'.The lowest member of the team gets the position title of Vice President.
Then you can get fancy with Executive Vice President, Distinguished Vice President, Senior Vice President, and so on...Now when they call the help desk, they get to talk to the Distinguished Senior Vice President of Reliability Engineering IT guy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260044</id>
	<title>Petty</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259493120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes that's petty. A rose by any other name smells as sweet.</p><p>Just do your job well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes that 's petty .
A rose by any other name smells as sweet.Just do your job well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes that's petty.
A rose by any other name smells as sweet.Just do your job well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260906</id>
	<title>Re:Hrmm</title>
	<author>JoeZeppy</author>
	<datestamp>1259505240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In my view of the industry when someone says IT I think of the technical support, admin and sys planning teams. The ones who make the systems work and keep working.</p><p>Programmers and the such, I put in the developers group. Graphic designers, html jockeys or software developers. The ones who make what people see on their desktops look pretty.</p><p>You dont call someone who washes your car and gives it a bit of a polish a mechanic would you?</p></div><p>Seriously, I call them "developers" to differentiate them from people who actually know something about the hardware and the OS.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In my view of the industry when someone says IT I think of the technical support , admin and sys planning teams .
The ones who make the systems work and keep working.Programmers and the such , I put in the developers group .
Graphic designers , html jockeys or software developers .
The ones who make what people see on their desktops look pretty.You dont call someone who washes your car and gives it a bit of a polish a mechanic would you ? Seriously , I call them " developers " to differentiate them from people who actually know something about the hardware and the OS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my view of the industry when someone says IT I think of the technical support, admin and sys planning teams.
The ones who make the systems work and keep working.Programmers and the such, I put in the developers group.
Graphic designers, html jockeys or software developers.
The ones who make what people see on their desktops look pretty.You dont call someone who washes your car and gives it a bit of a polish a mechanic would you?Seriously, I call them "developers" to differentiate them from people who actually know something about the hardware and the OS.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260074</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261880</id>
	<title>Re:I don't work in IT, but....</title>
	<author>dbIII</author>
	<datestamp>1259515140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's just students, they still have gaps in their knowlege.  You'd be astounded as to what most first and second year engineering students think about very simple materials science and newtonian physics.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's just students , they still have gaps in their knowlege .
You 'd be astounded as to what most first and second year engineering students think about very simple materials science and newtonian physics .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's just students, they still have gaps in their knowlege.
You'd be astounded as to what most first and second year engineering students think about very simple materials science and newtonian physics.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263040</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone think of South Park after the summary?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259524920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nobody with a functioning sense of humor will have thought of South Park for years. It jumped the shark before "jump the shark" did.</p><p>
&nbsp; To put it another way, your preferences are objectively bad, and I have a graph here in my pocket that can prove it. Stop watching that damn show, you're only encouraging those morons to make more!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nobody with a functioning sense of humor will have thought of South Park for years .
It jumped the shark before " jump the shark " did .
  To put it another way , your preferences are objectively bad , and I have a graph here in my pocket that can prove it .
Stop watching that damn show , you 're only encouraging those morons to make more !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nobody with a functioning sense of humor will have thought of South Park for years.
It jumped the shark before "jump the shark" did.
  To put it another way, your preferences are objectively bad, and I have a graph here in my pocket that can prove it.
Stop watching that damn show, you're only encouraging those morons to make more!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260242</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30266604</id>
	<title>it's just a category</title>
	<author>RaymondRuptime</author>
	<datestamp>1259516280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I don't want the same label as the intern who fixes windoze</p></div><p>It's a category, that's all.  The level you occupy in that category is not relevant.  The software architect with a PhD in engineering is an engineer, and so is the intern who fixes trivial bugs.  The same is true for every other profession--for example, a General Counsel is a lawyer, the same as a newly-hired associate.  If they call you "highly-paid IT guy", then it's fine.  The label is not really that important; understanding that being called an "IT guy" is not an insult <i>is</i> important.</p><p>Having said that, software development is usually done by software developers.  IT provides the infrastructure on which software products run, and then runs them.  In corporate terms, software developers create enterprise applications for customers, and customers have applications people in their IT department manage them.  Those corporate applications people in IT are sometimes application administrators, or web developers, or DBAs.</p><p>It would be more effective communication if they referred to software developers as software developers, or something like engineer or programmer.  Calling someone IT who isn't IT is confusing, and you end up with the wrong people answering job postings.  I wouldn't say you should make a big deal out of it, so I vote "yes" to</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Change it slowly over time</p></div><p>If you make a big deal about it, you will definitely look petty.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't want the same label as the intern who fixes windozeIt 's a category , that 's all .
The level you occupy in that category is not relevant .
The software architect with a PhD in engineering is an engineer , and so is the intern who fixes trivial bugs .
The same is true for every other profession--for example , a General Counsel is a lawyer , the same as a newly-hired associate .
If they call you " highly-paid IT guy " , then it 's fine .
The label is not really that important ; understanding that being called an " IT guy " is not an insult is important.Having said that , software development is usually done by software developers .
IT provides the infrastructure on which software products run , and then runs them .
In corporate terms , software developers create enterprise applications for customers , and customers have applications people in their IT department manage them .
Those corporate applications people in IT are sometimes application administrators , or web developers , or DBAs.It would be more effective communication if they referred to software developers as software developers , or something like engineer or programmer .
Calling someone IT who is n't IT is confusing , and you end up with the wrong people answering job postings .
I would n't say you should make a big deal out of it , so I vote " yes " toChange it slowly over timeIf you make a big deal about it , you will definitely look petty .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't want the same label as the intern who fixes windozeIt's a category, that's all.
The level you occupy in that category is not relevant.
The software architect with a PhD in engineering is an engineer, and so is the intern who fixes trivial bugs.
The same is true for every other profession--for example, a General Counsel is a lawyer, the same as a newly-hired associate.
If they call you "highly-paid IT guy", then it's fine.
The label is not really that important; understanding that being called an "IT guy" is not an insult is important.Having said that, software development is usually done by software developers.
IT provides the infrastructure on which software products run, and then runs them.
In corporate terms, software developers create enterprise applications for customers, and customers have applications people in their IT department manage them.
Those corporate applications people in IT are sometimes application administrators, or web developers, or DBAs.It would be more effective communication if they referred to software developers as software developers, or something like engineer or programmer.
Calling someone IT who isn't IT is confusing, and you end up with the wrong people answering job postings.
I wouldn't say you should make a big deal out of it, so I vote "yes" toChange it slowly over timeIf you make a big deal about it, you will definitely look petty.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260258</id>
	<title>wait</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259496180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why do you feel so bad about that label?<br>Take for example Google, they are all (mostly) IT guys, and everybody thinks they are cool.</p><p>(I guess if you really wanted to be regarded differently from the rest, you should have gone into nuclear physics or something...)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do you feel so bad about that label ? Take for example Google , they are all ( mostly ) IT guys , and everybody thinks they are cool .
( I guess if you really wanted to be regarded differently from the rest , you should have gone into nuclear physics or something... )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why do you feel so bad about that label?Take for example Google, they are all (mostly) IT guys, and everybody thinks they are cool.
(I guess if you really wanted to be regarded differently from the rest, you should have gone into nuclear physics or something...)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261784</id>
	<title>Re:Petty?</title>
	<author>visualight</author>
	<datestamp>1259514300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not petty, because 'IT' is <b>not</b> a generic term anymore and hasn't been for a long time.  'IT' are the guys who limit your inbox to 25MB, decide who gets to have two monitors, disable imap support on the exchange server and tell you that you have to have a windows desktop even though 100\% of your work is done in Unix or Linux.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not petty , because 'IT ' is not a generic term anymore and has n't been for a long time .
'IT ' are the guys who limit your inbox to 25MB , decide who gets to have two monitors , disable imap support on the exchange server and tell you that you have to have a windows desktop even though 100 \ % of your work is done in Unix or Linux .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not petty, because 'IT' is not a generic term anymore and hasn't been for a long time.
'IT' are the guys who limit your inbox to 25MB, decide who gets to have two monitors, disable imap support on the exchange server and tell you that you have to have a windows desktop even though 100\% of your work is done in Unix or Linux.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260046</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30280184</id>
	<title>mrfisma</title>
	<author>mrfisma</author>
	<datestamp>1259698800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Only IT people and drug dealers refer to their customers as "users."</htmltext>
<tokenext>Only IT people and drug dealers refer to their customers as " users .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Only IT people and drug dealers refer to their customers as "users.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262732</id>
	<title>Why?</title>
	<author>Mybrid</author>
	<datestamp>1259522040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>" lots of years getting good at creating technical products and I don't want the same label as the intern who fixes windoze."</p><p>Why? Seriously, why?</p><p>Are we living in the 18th century with Kings and Dukes and such?</p><p>Every Doctor I have I call them by their first name, not Doctor.</p><p>Sometimes people want a license. As with Doctor or Dentist. Only people who have the license can professionally claim the title. Otherwise titles are just pandering. I know many a people who'd rather have pay than a title, the title was bestowed on them without pay as a form of placation.</p><p>Are you really that insecure?</p><p>Funny how my email inbox doesn't seem suffer from anyone understanding my role. I do not get windoze emails even though we share similar titles. In fact, in large corporations titles are really about pay grade. If your pay is the same as the windoze guy, then you have bigger issues than title. If your pay is commensurate with your work, who fricking cares what they call you?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" lots of years getting good at creating technical products and I do n't want the same label as the intern who fixes windoze. " Why ?
Seriously , why ? Are we living in the 18th century with Kings and Dukes and such ? Every Doctor I have I call them by their first name , not Doctor.Sometimes people want a license .
As with Doctor or Dentist .
Only people who have the license can professionally claim the title .
Otherwise titles are just pandering .
I know many a people who 'd rather have pay than a title , the title was bestowed on them without pay as a form of placation.Are you really that insecure ? Funny how my email inbox does n't seem suffer from anyone understanding my role .
I do not get windoze emails even though we share similar titles .
In fact , in large corporations titles are really about pay grade .
If your pay is the same as the windoze guy , then you have bigger issues than title .
If your pay is commensurate with your work , who fricking cares what they call you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>" lots of years getting good at creating technical products and I don't want the same label as the intern who fixes windoze."Why?
Seriously, why?Are we living in the 18th century with Kings and Dukes and such?Every Doctor I have I call them by their first name, not Doctor.Sometimes people want a license.
As with Doctor or Dentist.
Only people who have the license can professionally claim the title.
Otherwise titles are just pandering.
I know many a people who'd rather have pay than a title, the title was bestowed on them without pay as a form of placation.Are you really that insecure?Funny how my email inbox doesn't seem suffer from anyone understanding my role.
I do not get windoze emails even though we share similar titles.
In fact, in large corporations titles are really about pay grade.
If your pay is the same as the windoze guy, then you have bigger issues than title.
If your pay is commensurate with your work, who fricking cares what they call you?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264738</id>
	<title>before it was called "IT", it was known as "DP"</title>
	<author>vaporland</author>
	<datestamp>1259498400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>aka <b>Data Processing</b>. Some of us remember JCL, keypunch machines, teletypes and allocating disk space manually.<br> <br>I never toggled a boot loader into the front panel of a CPU, but I watched IBM customer engineers who did. . .</htmltext>
<tokenext>aka Data Processing .
Some of us remember JCL , keypunch machines , teletypes and allocating disk space manually .
I never toggled a boot loader into the front panel of a CPU , but I watched IBM customer engineers who did .
. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>aka Data Processing.
Some of us remember JCL, keypunch machines, teletypes and allocating disk space manually.
I never toggled a boot loader into the front panel of a CPU, but I watched IBM customer engineers who did.
. .</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263566</id>
	<title>Re:Information Technology (IT)</title>
	<author>haruharaharu</author>
	<datestamp>1259487000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You ARE in IT.</p> </div><p>Sez them. They're a 'professional association' and have some stake in looking bigger than they are. IT is not Engineering. IT is what keeps the lights on from a computing perspective, and Engineering is what makes new things to sell or run for customers.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You ARE in IT .
Sez them .
They 're a 'professional association ' and have some stake in looking bigger than they are .
IT is not Engineering .
IT is what keeps the lights on from a computing perspective , and Engineering is what makes new things to sell or run for customers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You ARE in IT.
Sez them.
They're a 'professional association' and have some stake in looking bigger than they are.
IT is not Engineering.
IT is what keeps the lights on from a computing perspective, and Engineering is what makes new things to sell or run for customers.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260102</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260406</id>
	<title>Re:I don't work in IT, but....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259499060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, yes. At my school at least, the "IT" major was seemingly designed explicitly for students who started out as CS majors but realized they couldn't hack it. This way they could still do something computer related and apply the credit hours they had earned. The students themselves were pretty frank about this, too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , yes .
At my school at least , the " IT " major was seemingly designed explicitly for students who started out as CS majors but realized they could n't hack it .
This way they could still do something computer related and apply the credit hours they had earned .
The students themselves were pretty frank about this , too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, yes.
At my school at least, the "IT" major was seemingly designed explicitly for students who started out as CS majors but realized they couldn't hack it.
This way they could still do something computer related and apply the credit hours they had earned.
The students themselves were pretty frank about this, too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261602</id>
	<title>Re:Yes, I do. But people don't call me one.</title>
	<author>Nimey</author>
	<datestamp>1259512320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We desktop-support types have to be creative as well, just in a different way.  If someone's got a problem you've never seen before, you have to figure it out, and sometimes I have to design a small custom... workflow, I suppose, for an individual user.</p><p>Plus I'm the one who gets to clean up after bad developers, work up work-arounds, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We desktop-support types have to be creative as well , just in a different way .
If someone 's got a problem you 've never seen before , you have to figure it out , and sometimes I have to design a small custom... workflow , I suppose , for an individual user.Plus I 'm the one who gets to clean up after bad developers , work up work-arounds , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We desktop-support types have to be creative as well, just in a different way.
If someone's got a problem you've never seen before, you have to figure it out, and sometimes I have to design a small custom... workflow, I suppose, for an individual user.Plus I'm the one who gets to clean up after bad developers, work up work-arounds, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260346</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260456</id>
	<title>Overhead</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259499600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You could refer to the management as "overhead" since they technically are.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...and of course, at the top is the Chief Executive Overhead.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You could refer to the management as " overhead " since they technically are .
...and of course , at the top is the Chief Executive Overhead .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You could refer to the management as "overhead" since they technically are.
...and of course, at the top is the Chief Executive Overhead.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260382</id>
	<title>Re:Petty?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259498760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Your job title being clickclickdrone and the challange the spelling checker?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Your job title being clickclickdrone and the challange the spelling checker ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your job title being clickclickdrone and the challange the spelling checker?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260046</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260598</id>
	<title>I can sympathize</title>
	<author>unkiereamus</author>
	<datestamp>1259501220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Now, I'm an EMT, I'm trained to save lives.
<br> <br>
There are people who are walking the earth today who, were it not for me, would be dead. Not "I was a member of a team", not "If I hadn't been there, someone else would." because of me.
<br> <br>
And yet I am referred to by a huge number of people as being an "Ambulance Driver".
<br> <br>
Now, I don't see what's so degrading about being referred to as an "IT guy", but if it bothers you, then by all means try to change it. Speaking from my experience as a person who is exceedingly inept at the whole office politics thing, though, I'd suggest not putting that forth as a demand of taking the job, that sort of thing (I've come to find out), tends to make people think you're...well...a pain in the ass.
<br> <br>
(Unkie) Reamus</htmltext>
<tokenext>Now , I 'm an EMT , I 'm trained to save lives .
There are people who are walking the earth today who , were it not for me , would be dead .
Not " I was a member of a team " , not " If I had n't been there , someone else would .
" because of me .
And yet I am referred to by a huge number of people as being an " Ambulance Driver " .
Now , I do n't see what 's so degrading about being referred to as an " IT guy " , but if it bothers you , then by all means try to change it .
Speaking from my experience as a person who is exceedingly inept at the whole office politics thing , though , I 'd suggest not putting that forth as a demand of taking the job , that sort of thing ( I 've come to find out ) , tends to make people think you 're...well...a pain in the ass .
( Unkie ) Reamus</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now, I'm an EMT, I'm trained to save lives.
There are people who are walking the earth today who, were it not for me, would be dead.
Not "I was a member of a team", not "If I hadn't been there, someone else would.
" because of me.
And yet I am referred to by a huge number of people as being an "Ambulance Driver".
Now, I don't see what's so degrading about being referred to as an "IT guy", but if it bothers you, then by all means try to change it.
Speaking from my experience as a person who is exceedingly inept at the whole office politics thing, though, I'd suggest not putting that forth as a demand of taking the job, that sort of thing (I've come to find out), tends to make people think you're...well...a pain in the ass.
(Unkie) Reamus</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260326</id>
	<title>ego alert</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259497440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>maybe you should be a 'businessman' instead</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>maybe you should be a 'businessman ' instead</tokentext>
<sentencetext>maybe you should be a 'businessman' instead</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260200</id>
	<title>IT is infrastructure, not computer science</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259495220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are lots of computer related jobs that are definitely NOT IT:</p><p>Computer scientist: performs basic research relating to computers and computing technologies<br>CS Professor: teaches computer science<br>Developer: *could* be IT, but may be developing software not related to companies at all!<br>Software architect, Systems architect: creates high level designs for applications, software systems, etc.</p><p>IT is the set of people who provide internal computing services to companies, governments, universities, and other organizations.  It's an infrastructure service.  It takes commercial products (software, hardware, etc.) and configures and maintains them to support the operations of the parent organization.  This is very different from developers who *produce* products, or from computer scientists who invent new technologies.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are lots of computer related jobs that are definitely NOT IT : Computer scientist : performs basic research relating to computers and computing technologiesCS Professor : teaches computer scienceDeveloper : * could * be IT , but may be developing software not related to companies at all ! Software architect , Systems architect : creates high level designs for applications , software systems , etc.IT is the set of people who provide internal computing services to companies , governments , universities , and other organizations .
It 's an infrastructure service .
It takes commercial products ( software , hardware , etc .
) and configures and maintains them to support the operations of the parent organization .
This is very different from developers who * produce * products , or from computer scientists who invent new technologies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are lots of computer related jobs that are definitely NOT IT:Computer scientist: performs basic research relating to computers and computing technologiesCS Professor: teaches computer scienceDeveloper: *could* be IT, but may be developing software not related to companies at all!Software architect, Systems architect: creates high level designs for applications, software systems, etc.IT is the set of people who provide internal computing services to companies, governments, universities, and other organizations.
It's an infrastructure service.
It takes commercial products (software, hardware, etc.
) and configures and maintains them to support the operations of the parent organization.
This is very different from developers who *produce* products, or from computer scientists who invent new technologies.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30280518</id>
	<title>Who cares?</title>
	<author>jotaeleemeese</author>
	<datestamp>1259659440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Really. Who does?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Really .
Who does ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Really.
Who does?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262352</id>
	<title>Haha lowly mortals bow before me</title>
	<author>genner</author>
	<datestamp>1259518980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>.....for I work for a IS departmnent. <br>
Because information services is so much greater than information technology.</htmltext>
<tokenext>.....for I work for a IS departmnent .
Because information services is so much greater than information technology .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>.....for I work for a IS departmnent.
Because information services is so much greater than information technology.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260580</id>
	<title>Re:I'm not an "IT guy".</title>
	<author>mlts</author>
	<datestamp>1259500980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From what I see, I see the PHBs and the nontechnical side of companies put the "computer people" into two camps, both doing some type of customer support:  The developers, and the IT guys/gals.  In their minds, the developers are the ones that sit there in closed rooms and slowly but surely make revisions to the company's product over time, and the people who the external customers get shuttled to if there are issues.</p><p>Compared to the devs which are to be fed to the external customers, the IT people are for the internal support.  The LaserJet says "Insert Coin", they call up the head of IT for a fix even though he is 3 states over in a remote office, making sure not just the VPN communicates from the branch to HQ, but figuring out how to partition critical databases so the parts accessed most often by the office reside on servers at the branch, while replicated at HQ for backup reasons.</p><p>The problem is that IT is not a respected profession.  People may not understand what exactly an attorney does, but they give them respect, and don't call up the head lawyer in a firm asking them to look at a will or contract.  People may not understand what a doctor is doing exactly in a company, but they don't call them up and ask them to look at their hemorrhoids after work.</p><p>Combine this fact with the fact that IT people need years of experience.  Not just keeping up to date in day to day technology [1], but having to also be professional with dealing with end users (external or internal).  This is a true profession, and takes just as much work as an engineer, attorney, or doctor to become truly good at it.</p><p>The reason people don't realize this is a true profession is because most of them have no clue what even a SMB requires for support.  The concept of "production critical" hardware is foreign to some people who have not worked on anything more critical than their home PCs.</p><p>So, what does IT need to bring it in line with engineers, doctors, and attorneys?  This makes people go "UGH!", but a certifying body, similar to a bar association.  However, this cannot be a static certificate similar to a MCSE.  Technology changes so rapidly, someone who has one of these memberships on a snapshot of technology in 2006 may not be good compared to someone who is working on 2009 tech.  One can't count on degrees either.  Someone can have an IT degree and have no clue how to configure a production critical SAN compared to someone with just a GED.  Perhaps long term, an organization similar to the ACM might be what is needed, with certification that is on the core elements of IT that don't change (application stacks, networking, customer interaction.)  Then (and this is the hard part) get this organization respected in the eyes of PHBs and such, similar to how having a CISSP or a TS/SCI clearance means job security, or another decent position.</p><p>This organization would likely have to have levels of IT professional, similar to engineers, and even tradeskills (plumbers, locksmiths, and electricians), apprentice, journeyman, and master.</p><p>An apprentice would probably be around the A+ level of certification.  It means the holder knows the basics of recent equipment, how to reinstall a server from bare metal, how to deal with a ticket system.</p><p>A journeyman would be able to configure core servers and get them running, do basic database optimization (first/second/third normal forms, what parts of a database container go on what spindles), configure basic backups, and so on.  A major factor would be the ability to do documentation on what was done to machines in changelogs, so another person would be able to perhaps roll back system changes done due to a trouble ticket.</p><p>A master would be someone who can get two SANs replicated over a WAN, handle enterprise wide core/edge network fabric, hammer out a backup fabric for a core data center, having an idea of how long it will take to get servers back operational if a data center bites it, hand over reports, be able to answer audits (ISO 10,000, BSA, consistent pro</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From what I see , I see the PHBs and the nontechnical side of companies put the " computer people " into two camps , both doing some type of customer support : The developers , and the IT guys/gals .
In their minds , the developers are the ones that sit there in closed rooms and slowly but surely make revisions to the company 's product over time , and the people who the external customers get shuttled to if there are issues.Compared to the devs which are to be fed to the external customers , the IT people are for the internal support .
The LaserJet says " Insert Coin " , they call up the head of IT for a fix even though he is 3 states over in a remote office , making sure not just the VPN communicates from the branch to HQ , but figuring out how to partition critical databases so the parts accessed most often by the office reside on servers at the branch , while replicated at HQ for backup reasons.The problem is that IT is not a respected profession .
People may not understand what exactly an attorney does , but they give them respect , and do n't call up the head lawyer in a firm asking them to look at a will or contract .
People may not understand what a doctor is doing exactly in a company , but they do n't call them up and ask them to look at their hemorrhoids after work.Combine this fact with the fact that IT people need years of experience .
Not just keeping up to date in day to day technology [ 1 ] , but having to also be professional with dealing with end users ( external or internal ) .
This is a true profession , and takes just as much work as an engineer , attorney , or doctor to become truly good at it.The reason people do n't realize this is a true profession is because most of them have no clue what even a SMB requires for support .
The concept of " production critical " hardware is foreign to some people who have not worked on anything more critical than their home PCs.So , what does IT need to bring it in line with engineers , doctors , and attorneys ?
This makes people go " UGH !
" , but a certifying body , similar to a bar association .
However , this can not be a static certificate similar to a MCSE .
Technology changes so rapidly , someone who has one of these memberships on a snapshot of technology in 2006 may not be good compared to someone who is working on 2009 tech .
One ca n't count on degrees either .
Someone can have an IT degree and have no clue how to configure a production critical SAN compared to someone with just a GED .
Perhaps long term , an organization similar to the ACM might be what is needed , with certification that is on the core elements of IT that do n't change ( application stacks , networking , customer interaction .
) Then ( and this is the hard part ) get this organization respected in the eyes of PHBs and such , similar to how having a CISSP or a TS/SCI clearance means job security , or another decent position.This organization would likely have to have levels of IT professional , similar to engineers , and even tradeskills ( plumbers , locksmiths , and electricians ) , apprentice , journeyman , and master.An apprentice would probably be around the A + level of certification .
It means the holder knows the basics of recent equipment , how to reinstall a server from bare metal , how to deal with a ticket system.A journeyman would be able to configure core servers and get them running , do basic database optimization ( first/second/third normal forms , what parts of a database container go on what spindles ) , configure basic backups , and so on .
A major factor would be the ability to do documentation on what was done to machines in changelogs , so another person would be able to perhaps roll back system changes done due to a trouble ticket.A master would be someone who can get two SANs replicated over a WAN , handle enterprise wide core/edge network fabric , hammer out a backup fabric for a core data center , having an idea of how long it will take to get servers back operational if a data center bites it , hand over reports , be able to answer audits ( ISO 10,000 , BSA , consistent pro</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From what I see, I see the PHBs and the nontechnical side of companies put the "computer people" into two camps, both doing some type of customer support:  The developers, and the IT guys/gals.
In their minds, the developers are the ones that sit there in closed rooms and slowly but surely make revisions to the company's product over time, and the people who the external customers get shuttled to if there are issues.Compared to the devs which are to be fed to the external customers, the IT people are for the internal support.
The LaserJet says "Insert Coin", they call up the head of IT for a fix even though he is 3 states over in a remote office, making sure not just the VPN communicates from the branch to HQ, but figuring out how to partition critical databases so the parts accessed most often by the office reside on servers at the branch, while replicated at HQ for backup reasons.The problem is that IT is not a respected profession.
People may not understand what exactly an attorney does, but they give them respect, and don't call up the head lawyer in a firm asking them to look at a will or contract.
People may not understand what a doctor is doing exactly in a company, but they don't call them up and ask them to look at their hemorrhoids after work.Combine this fact with the fact that IT people need years of experience.
Not just keeping up to date in day to day technology [1], but having to also be professional with dealing with end users (external or internal).
This is a true profession, and takes just as much work as an engineer, attorney, or doctor to become truly good at it.The reason people don't realize this is a true profession is because most of them have no clue what even a SMB requires for support.
The concept of "production critical" hardware is foreign to some people who have not worked on anything more critical than their home PCs.So, what does IT need to bring it in line with engineers, doctors, and attorneys?
This makes people go "UGH!
", but a certifying body, similar to a bar association.
However, this cannot be a static certificate similar to a MCSE.
Technology changes so rapidly, someone who has one of these memberships on a snapshot of technology in 2006 may not be good compared to someone who is working on 2009 tech.
One can't count on degrees either.
Someone can have an IT degree and have no clue how to configure a production critical SAN compared to someone with just a GED.
Perhaps long term, an organization similar to the ACM might be what is needed, with certification that is on the core elements of IT that don't change (application stacks, networking, customer interaction.
)  Then (and this is the hard part) get this organization respected in the eyes of PHBs and such, similar to how having a CISSP or a TS/SCI clearance means job security, or another decent position.This organization would likely have to have levels of IT professional, similar to engineers, and even tradeskills (plumbers, locksmiths, and electricians), apprentice, journeyman, and master.An apprentice would probably be around the A+ level of certification.
It means the holder knows the basics of recent equipment, how to reinstall a server from bare metal, how to deal with a ticket system.A journeyman would be able to configure core servers and get them running, do basic database optimization (first/second/third normal forms, what parts of a database container go on what spindles), configure basic backups, and so on.
A major factor would be the ability to do documentation on what was done to machines in changelogs, so another person would be able to perhaps roll back system changes done due to a trouble ticket.A master would be someone who can get two SANs replicated over a WAN, handle enterprise wide core/edge network fabric, hammer out a backup fabric for a core data center, having an idea of how long it will take to get servers back operational if a data center bites it, hand over reports, be able to answer audits (ISO 10,000, BSA, consistent pro</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260056</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30265630</id>
	<title>The only people that use the term "IT"...</title>
	<author>beefmusta</author>
	<datestamp>1259508420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...know nothing about it. This is why it has a negative connotation with me, anyway.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...know nothing about it .
This is why it has a negative connotation with me , anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...know nothing about it.
This is why it has a negative connotation with me, anyway.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30266800</id>
	<title>Re:I swear</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259517900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Relax, Francis.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Relax , Francis .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Relax, Francis.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260280</id>
	<title>Re:What about 'Tech Mage'?</title>
	<author>simoncpu was here</author>
	<datestamp>1259496660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I use "Code Ninja" or "The Sexiest Software Engineer" whenever I sign up on online forms.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I use " Code Ninja " or " The Sexiest Software Engineer " whenever I sign up on online forms .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I use "Code Ninja" or "The Sexiest Software Engineer" whenever I sign up on online forms.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260118</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261570</id>
	<title>thoughts</title>
	<author>cecil\_turtle</author>
	<datestamp>1259511900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>The phrase 'IT' is so overused, I'm not sure what it means any more.</i> <br>
It means the same as it ever did, Information Technology, it is intentionally a broad term for an industry.  Like "Finance", "Retail", "Automotive", "Medical", etc.
<br> <br>
<i>OK, maybe it's an ego thing, but I spent a lot of years in grad school, lots of years getting good at creating software, and lots of years getting good at creating technical products and I don't want the same label as the intern who fixes windoze.</i> <br>
Yes, it's an ego thing; that attitude won't help you earn respect or lead peers.  You're no better than an intern starting out fixing computers.  In my company there is a distinction between "IT" and "development", who most of the rest of the company considers a bunch of "code monkeys".  In a closely related company we partner with, everything is called IT, including development.  It's no big deal.
<br> <br>
<i>we have to stop referring to all these people as 'IT people' or I'm not going to be able to attract and retain the top-tier talent that is required</i> <br>
I disagree, the best people generally do not have the attitude you do.  People who are ego-driven or make a big deal about their title are generally high maintenance under-performers.
<br> <br>
<i>Am I just being petty? Should I just forget it? Change it slowly over time?</i> <br>
I think you are being petty and should forget it.  If it is a big deal to you then changing it over time is a better idea than confronting the CEO directly about it before you take the job.
<br> <br>
<i>Just call them the 'Tech Department' or the 'Engineering Deptartment?'"</i> <br>
I'm not sure I follow here, are you asking a question or suggesting your own answer?  Software development is NOT engineering.  Just as you are concerned about the overuse of the word "IT", I know many engineers who think the word "engineering" is overused.  I suspect none of your advanced degrees are in any form of engineering, and 90\% of the people you hire will not be engineers of any sort either.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The phrase 'IT ' is so overused , I 'm not sure what it means any more .
It means the same as it ever did , Information Technology , it is intentionally a broad term for an industry .
Like " Finance " , " Retail " , " Automotive " , " Medical " , etc .
OK , maybe it 's an ego thing , but I spent a lot of years in grad school , lots of years getting good at creating software , and lots of years getting good at creating technical products and I do n't want the same label as the intern who fixes windoze .
Yes , it 's an ego thing ; that attitude wo n't help you earn respect or lead peers .
You 're no better than an intern starting out fixing computers .
In my company there is a distinction between " IT " and " development " , who most of the rest of the company considers a bunch of " code monkeys " .
In a closely related company we partner with , everything is called IT , including development .
It 's no big deal .
we have to stop referring to all these people as 'IT people ' or I 'm not going to be able to attract and retain the top-tier talent that is required I disagree , the best people generally do not have the attitude you do .
People who are ego-driven or make a big deal about their title are generally high maintenance under-performers .
Am I just being petty ?
Should I just forget it ?
Change it slowly over time ?
I think you are being petty and should forget it .
If it is a big deal to you then changing it over time is a better idea than confronting the CEO directly about it before you take the job .
Just call them the 'Tech Department ' or the 'Engineering Deptartment ?
' " I 'm not sure I follow here , are you asking a question or suggesting your own answer ?
Software development is NOT engineering .
Just as you are concerned about the overuse of the word " IT " , I know many engineers who think the word " engineering " is overused .
I suspect none of your advanced degrees are in any form of engineering , and 90 \ % of the people you hire will not be engineers of any sort either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The phrase 'IT' is so overused, I'm not sure what it means any more.
It means the same as it ever did, Information Technology, it is intentionally a broad term for an industry.
Like "Finance", "Retail", "Automotive", "Medical", etc.
OK, maybe it's an ego thing, but I spent a lot of years in grad school, lots of years getting good at creating software, and lots of years getting good at creating technical products and I don't want the same label as the intern who fixes windoze.
Yes, it's an ego thing; that attitude won't help you earn respect or lead peers.
You're no better than an intern starting out fixing computers.
In my company there is a distinction between "IT" and "development", who most of the rest of the company considers a bunch of "code monkeys".
In a closely related company we partner with, everything is called IT, including development.
It's no big deal.
we have to stop referring to all these people as 'IT people' or I'm not going to be able to attract and retain the top-tier talent that is required 
I disagree, the best people generally do not have the attitude you do.
People who are ego-driven or make a big deal about their title are generally high maintenance under-performers.
Am I just being petty?
Should I just forget it?
Change it slowly over time?
I think you are being petty and should forget it.
If it is a big deal to you then changing it over time is a better idea than confronting the CEO directly about it before you take the job.
Just call them the 'Tech Department' or the 'Engineering Deptartment?
'" 
I'm not sure I follow here, are you asking a question or suggesting your own answer?
Software development is NOT engineering.
Just as you are concerned about the overuse of the word "IT", I know many engineers who think the word "engineering" is overused.
I suspect none of your advanced degrees are in any form of engineering, and 90\% of the people you hire will not be engineers of any sort either.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30267380</id>
	<title>MBA Guy</title>
	<author>mahadiga</author>
	<datestamp>1259523240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You may want to find out what a MBA Guy <a href="http://www.netmba.com/" title="netmba.com" rel="nofollow">knows and does?</a> [netmba.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>You may want to find out what a MBA Guy knows and does ?
[ netmba.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You may want to find out what a MBA Guy knows and does?
[netmba.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262080</id>
	<title>Take it from Chopper...</title>
	<author>GooseYArd</author>
	<datestamp>1259516700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = unkIVvjZc9Y</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261176</id>
	<title>I'm a programmer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259508240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This reminds me of one time when I was in a car with a bunch of guys I worked with and made some statement about the lot of us as "programmers".  One individual got very upset and exclaimed "I am NOT a programmer!".  It took me a moment, but I could think of no other response than "Excuse me, Senior Programmer Analyst!"</p><p>I was impressed.  The guy has Programmer in his title.  Further, I thought it was on the prestigious end by most accounts...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This reminds me of one time when I was in a car with a bunch of guys I worked with and made some statement about the lot of us as " programmers " .
One individual got very upset and exclaimed " I am NOT a programmer ! " .
It took me a moment , but I could think of no other response than " Excuse me , Senior Programmer Analyst !
" I was impressed .
The guy has Programmer in his title .
Further , I thought it was on the prestigious end by most accounts.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This reminds me of one time when I was in a car with a bunch of guys I worked with and made some statement about the lot of us as "programmers".
One individual got very upset and exclaimed "I am NOT a programmer!".
It took me a moment, but I could think of no other response than "Excuse me, Senior Programmer Analyst!
"I was impressed.
The guy has Programmer in his title.
Further, I thought it was on the prestigious end by most accounts...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260806</id>
	<title>Re:I am a software engineer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259503980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Funny thing about those peripheral issues:  I have seen both Compaq and Packard Bell keyboards (PS/2) that would not work properly on other computers (strangely, generic keyboards worked just fine on the machines these came from.)  To be fair, I haven't seen this happen with USB KBDs/mice...it wouldn't be a real shocker though.  And, those letters and numbers seem to wear of the Dell keyboards pretty fast...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Funny thing about those peripheral issues : I have seen both Compaq and Packard Bell keyboards ( PS/2 ) that would not work properly on other computers ( strangely , generic keyboards worked just fine on the machines these came from .
) To be fair , I have n't seen this happen with USB KBDs/mice...it would n't be a real shocker though .
And , those letters and numbers seem to wear of the Dell keyboards pretty fast.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Funny thing about those peripheral issues:  I have seen both Compaq and Packard Bell keyboards (PS/2) that would not work properly on other computers (strangely, generic keyboards worked just fine on the machines these came from.
)  To be fair, I haven't seen this happen with USB KBDs/mice...it wouldn't be a real shocker though.
And, those letters and numbers seem to wear of the Dell keyboards pretty fast...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261332</id>
	<title>you can call me your IT Guy AKA Your Company's Guy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259509620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I Am an IT Guy. fixing computers is what I do. I like the Title. I develop software and scripts for personal use and for Clients. and I am Still an IT Guy First and for most.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I Am an IT Guy .
fixing computers is what I do .
I like the Title .
I develop software and scripts for personal use and for Clients .
and I am Still an IT Guy First and for most .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I Am an IT Guy.
fixing computers is what I do.
I like the Title.
I develop software and scripts for personal use and for Clients.
and I am Still an IT Guy First and for most.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260898</id>
	<title>Re:Information Technology (IT)</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259505120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm a Software Engineer. We have an IT department and an Engineering department. When someone says: "Hey you're a computer guy... could you help me with my printer" I say... "oh, I'm in engineering... you want IT."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm a Software Engineer .
We have an IT department and an Engineering department .
When someone says : " Hey you 're a computer guy... could you help me with my printer " I say... " oh , I 'm in engineering... you want IT .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm a Software Engineer.
We have an IT department and an Engineering department.
When someone says: "Hey you're a computer guy... could you help me with my printer" I say... "oh, I'm in engineering... you want IT.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260102</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30266598</id>
	<title>Being called "IT Guy" is offensive?</title>
	<author>magamiako1</author>
	<datestamp>1259516280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>From someone that works in IT (Systems Engineer, official title), I can assure you that to us you CS Majors are the real idiots. We most certainly are not. I know a lot of Software Developers (Architects/programmers/whatever you want to call them) that can do a wide range of programming from C, to C#, to C++, to Java, to PHP, to whatever-the-hell-language-is-cool-on-the-street and I assure you that YOU are the idiot.<br><br>I have been consulted by many developer-oriented friends to fix their virus-infected PCs. I know quite a few that don't even know the basics of the systems placed in front of them.<br><br>And this person is writing software on these platforms?<br><br>The guy at the help desk could probably tell you nearly every in and out of the Windows OS including service interaction, monitoring performance of a system, to understanding underlying parts of what makes the PC tick.<br><br>In fact, In my company, we, the "IT guys" end up bug tracking and supporting rather poor software development practices. They can't even write decent software that works well enough on the system.<br><br>Take it from me--if you want to be an effective software developer, you should try working in the help desk and support infrastructure first. It will give you a rather nice, clear view of peoples' expectations and what kinds of problems you might encounter in your software.</htmltext>
<tokenext>From someone that works in IT ( Systems Engineer , official title ) , I can assure you that to us you CS Majors are the real idiots .
We most certainly are not .
I know a lot of Software Developers ( Architects/programmers/whatever you want to call them ) that can do a wide range of programming from C , to C # , to C + + , to Java , to PHP , to whatever-the-hell-language-is-cool-on-the-street and I assure you that YOU are the idiot.I have been consulted by many developer-oriented friends to fix their virus-infected PCs .
I know quite a few that do n't even know the basics of the systems placed in front of them.And this person is writing software on these platforms ? The guy at the help desk could probably tell you nearly every in and out of the Windows OS including service interaction , monitoring performance of a system , to understanding underlying parts of what makes the PC tick.In fact , In my company , we , the " IT guys " end up bug tracking and supporting rather poor software development practices .
They ca n't even write decent software that works well enough on the system.Take it from me--if you want to be an effective software developer , you should try working in the help desk and support infrastructure first .
It will give you a rather nice , clear view of peoples ' expectations and what kinds of problems you might encounter in your software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From someone that works in IT (Systems Engineer, official title), I can assure you that to us you CS Majors are the real idiots.
We most certainly are not.
I know a lot of Software Developers (Architects/programmers/whatever you want to call them) that can do a wide range of programming from C, to C#, to C++, to Java, to PHP, to whatever-the-hell-language-is-cool-on-the-street and I assure you that YOU are the idiot.I have been consulted by many developer-oriented friends to fix their virus-infected PCs.
I know quite a few that don't even know the basics of the systems placed in front of them.And this person is writing software on these platforms?The guy at the help desk could probably tell you nearly every in and out of the Windows OS including service interaction, monitoring performance of a system, to understanding underlying parts of what makes the PC tick.In fact, In my company, we, the "IT guys" end up bug tracking and supporting rather poor software development practices.
They can't even write decent software that works well enough on the system.Take it from me--if you want to be an effective software developer, you should try working in the help desk and support infrastructure first.
It will give you a rather nice, clear view of peoples' expectations and what kinds of problems you might encounter in your software.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260998</id>
	<title>Engineer used to mean something...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259506260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Titles don't mean much anymore.<br>IT guys at my company must make up their own, my favorite is:  UNIX Engineer</p><p>State Prof Engineer groups used to enforce the rules and regs against mis-use of the title 'engineer'<br>no more</p><p>You see, states grant professional engineer licenses along with interior designer, real estate, and beautician licenses</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Titles do n't mean much anymore.IT guys at my company must make up their own , my favorite is : UNIX EngineerState Prof Engineer groups used to enforce the rules and regs against mis-use of the title 'engineer'no moreYou see , states grant professional engineer licenses along with interior designer , real estate , and beautician licenses</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Titles don't mean much anymore.IT guys at my company must make up their own, my favorite is:  UNIX EngineerState Prof Engineer groups used to enforce the rules and regs against mis-use of the title 'engineer'no moreYou see, states grant professional engineer licenses along with interior designer, real estate, and beautician licenses</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260422</id>
	<title>It's important</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259499240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think it's an important distinction, even if the poster was, in fact, egotistical in making his point. There is a difference between tech support and software development. Both are important in their own regard. Both the highly paid software developer and the lowly intern have their place and their purpose and both deserve the same level of courtesy and professionalism. Not knowing the difference between two different tiers in a position can have negative effects.</p><p>One thing is indeed ego. It's in a company's best interest to not insult its employees and keep them happy, even if the insult or happiness might stem from a certain level of egotism. Keeping your employees happy should be a priority for all companies. I think most departments take for granted the distinctions made in their respective fields. Would anyone here refer to his or her CFO as an "accountant"? Would you call your COO an "office manager"? What about your head of public relations? Is that person merely a "marketing type"? No one would refer to the chief officer in any department as the lowest tier of employee in that particular field. So why is that different when it comes to software development?</p><p>I think most people should adhere to a certain level of professionalism and refer to their coworkers as the titles that their coworkers feel they deserve. And, try to understand what that title means and relate that to what they should expect that person to do. You should expect tech support to answer your questions about computer problems. You shouldn't expect this of software developers. You should expect them to make software products that your company uses or sells.</p><p>There seems to be a double-standard when it comes to "people who know computers".. A lot of people assume that if you are "trained in technology" then you will perform rudimentary tech support for them.</p><p>I still remember the first time I saw a mid-level manager call on a company's CIO to perform tech support -- call on the CIO directly, dial the CIO's extension and tell him that he needs to come down here and fix this. I thought it was absolutely absurd to see a man with a graduate degree explaining to an assistant director of a department how to set a printer as the default printer (something I did on my own the three times that our printer crapped out and was replaced in our department). Ego or not, that is beneath a CIO. Who would dare tell their CFO to process payroll checks? Who would angrily tell their CEO to answer the phones when the receptionist steps out for lunch? Yet this seems to be accepted treatment of any and all "computer guys".</p><p>Delegation is crucial to a smoothly-run business. Software developers, engineers, or whatever you want to call the people who create software products that your company uses or sells need to focus on just that: software development. Tech support needs to focus on telling people to restart their computers, setting default printers, installing basic software on employees machines, and responding to complaints and questions of people who don't know as much about computer literacy as they should. And I'm sure there are more important things that tech support does as well that I have failed to mention.</p><p>I'll admit that is egotistical to a certain degree. But it's still true. When you have random employees pulling important tech people off of important things to explain how memory leaks in Windows leads to their machine "acting weird", then they not only get frustrated, but they are also not making the software products that your company needs. And that will hurt your bottom line eventually.</p><p>In conclusion, I just spent a really long time drafting a very wordy anonymous post that no one will ever read and will not even be modded up from 0. Hooray for me.</p><p>Cordially,<br>David 0mega</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it 's an important distinction , even if the poster was , in fact , egotistical in making his point .
There is a difference between tech support and software development .
Both are important in their own regard .
Both the highly paid software developer and the lowly intern have their place and their purpose and both deserve the same level of courtesy and professionalism .
Not knowing the difference between two different tiers in a position can have negative effects.One thing is indeed ego .
It 's in a company 's best interest to not insult its employees and keep them happy , even if the insult or happiness might stem from a certain level of egotism .
Keeping your employees happy should be a priority for all companies .
I think most departments take for granted the distinctions made in their respective fields .
Would anyone here refer to his or her CFO as an " accountant " ?
Would you call your COO an " office manager " ?
What about your head of public relations ?
Is that person merely a " marketing type " ?
No one would refer to the chief officer in any department as the lowest tier of employee in that particular field .
So why is that different when it comes to software development ? I think most people should adhere to a certain level of professionalism and refer to their coworkers as the titles that their coworkers feel they deserve .
And , try to understand what that title means and relate that to what they should expect that person to do .
You should expect tech support to answer your questions about computer problems .
You should n't expect this of software developers .
You should expect them to make software products that your company uses or sells.There seems to be a double-standard when it comes to " people who know computers " .. A lot of people assume that if you are " trained in technology " then you will perform rudimentary tech support for them.I still remember the first time I saw a mid-level manager call on a company 's CIO to perform tech support -- call on the CIO directly , dial the CIO 's extension and tell him that he needs to come down here and fix this .
I thought it was absolutely absurd to see a man with a graduate degree explaining to an assistant director of a department how to set a printer as the default printer ( something I did on my own the three times that our printer crapped out and was replaced in our department ) .
Ego or not , that is beneath a CIO .
Who would dare tell their CFO to process payroll checks ?
Who would angrily tell their CEO to answer the phones when the receptionist steps out for lunch ?
Yet this seems to be accepted treatment of any and all " computer guys " .Delegation is crucial to a smoothly-run business .
Software developers , engineers , or whatever you want to call the people who create software products that your company uses or sells need to focus on just that : software development .
Tech support needs to focus on telling people to restart their computers , setting default printers , installing basic software on employees machines , and responding to complaints and questions of people who do n't know as much about computer literacy as they should .
And I 'm sure there are more important things that tech support does as well that I have failed to mention.I 'll admit that is egotistical to a certain degree .
But it 's still true .
When you have random employees pulling important tech people off of important things to explain how memory leaks in Windows leads to their machine " acting weird " , then they not only get frustrated , but they are also not making the software products that your company needs .
And that will hurt your bottom line eventually.In conclusion , I just spent a really long time drafting a very wordy anonymous post that no one will ever read and will not even be modded up from 0 .
Hooray for me.Cordially,David 0mega</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it's an important distinction, even if the poster was, in fact, egotistical in making his point.
There is a difference between tech support and software development.
Both are important in their own regard.
Both the highly paid software developer and the lowly intern have their place and their purpose and both deserve the same level of courtesy and professionalism.
Not knowing the difference between two different tiers in a position can have negative effects.One thing is indeed ego.
It's in a company's best interest to not insult its employees and keep them happy, even if the insult or happiness might stem from a certain level of egotism.
Keeping your employees happy should be a priority for all companies.
I think most departments take for granted the distinctions made in their respective fields.
Would anyone here refer to his or her CFO as an "accountant"?
Would you call your COO an "office manager"?
What about your head of public relations?
Is that person merely a "marketing type"?
No one would refer to the chief officer in any department as the lowest tier of employee in that particular field.
So why is that different when it comes to software development?I think most people should adhere to a certain level of professionalism and refer to their coworkers as the titles that their coworkers feel they deserve.
And, try to understand what that title means and relate that to what they should expect that person to do.
You should expect tech support to answer your questions about computer problems.
You shouldn't expect this of software developers.
You should expect them to make software products that your company uses or sells.There seems to be a double-standard when it comes to "people who know computers".. A lot of people assume that if you are "trained in technology" then you will perform rudimentary tech support for them.I still remember the first time I saw a mid-level manager call on a company's CIO to perform tech support -- call on the CIO directly, dial the CIO's extension and tell him that he needs to come down here and fix this.
I thought it was absolutely absurd to see a man with a graduate degree explaining to an assistant director of a department how to set a printer as the default printer (something I did on my own the three times that our printer crapped out and was replaced in our department).
Ego or not, that is beneath a CIO.
Who would dare tell their CFO to process payroll checks?
Who would angrily tell their CEO to answer the phones when the receptionist steps out for lunch?
Yet this seems to be accepted treatment of any and all "computer guys".Delegation is crucial to a smoothly-run business.
Software developers, engineers, or whatever you want to call the people who create software products that your company uses or sells need to focus on just that: software development.
Tech support needs to focus on telling people to restart their computers, setting default printers, installing basic software on employees machines, and responding to complaints and questions of people who don't know as much about computer literacy as they should.
And I'm sure there are more important things that tech support does as well that I have failed to mention.I'll admit that is egotistical to a certain degree.
But it's still true.
When you have random employees pulling important tech people off of important things to explain how memory leaks in Windows leads to their machine "acting weird", then they not only get frustrated, but they are also not making the software products that your company needs.
And that will hurt your bottom line eventually.In conclusion, I just spent a really long time drafting a very wordy anonymous post that no one will ever read and will not even be modded up from 0.
Hooray for me.Cordially,David 0mega</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30272378</id>
	<title>I don't care what they call me</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259609040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>as long as they DON"T call me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>as long as they DON " T call me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>as long as they DON"T call me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30268368</id>
	<title>Re:Self-important Douchebag</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259579280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It makes me outraged. Fuck capitalism.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It makes me outraged .
Fuck capitalism .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It makes me outraged.
Fuck capitalism.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260180</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260240</id>
	<title>Title is key in resume searches</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259495940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been at several jobs where the departmet itself was called something like "IT", but my title was Senior Systems Engineer, and that title was all that ever ended up on the resume. Don't worry about the department's name; worry about your job title. From experience, titles DO matter, especially when they're on your resume. People who think that an HR person or recruiter are going to notice what your title SHOULD HAVE been are either deluded or have no job-hunting skills. Use your leverage to get a good job title, and if that doesn't pan out, use the more accepted title on your resume.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been at several jobs where the departmet itself was called something like " IT " , but my title was Senior Systems Engineer , and that title was all that ever ended up on the resume .
Do n't worry about the department 's name ; worry about your job title .
From experience , titles DO matter , especially when they 're on your resume .
People who think that an HR person or recruiter are going to notice what your title SHOULD HAVE been are either deluded or have no job-hunting skills .
Use your leverage to get a good job title , and if that does n't pan out , use the more accepted title on your resume .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been at several jobs where the departmet itself was called something like "IT", but my title was Senior Systems Engineer, and that title was all that ever ended up on the resume.
Don't worry about the department's name; worry about your job title.
From experience, titles DO matter, especially when they're on your resume.
People who think that an HR person or recruiter are going to notice what your title SHOULD HAVE been are either deluded or have no job-hunting skills.
Use your leverage to get a good job title, and if that doesn't pan out, use the more accepted title on your resume.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260138</id>
	<title>Build a bridge....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259494380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is there anyway to moderate the article as "troll"?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is there anyway to moderate the article as " troll " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is there anyway to moderate the article as "troll"?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261778</id>
	<title>What a douche bag..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259514240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Unless everyone in Tech officially holds a title of "IT Person", then who gives a flying fuck what the "technology" group is referred to as?  Seems as if there are Developers, architects, dbas,helpdesk etc personnel in the "IT group".  So what?  You're a cost center jackass,  no one in the "business" gives two shits what your Systems Intergrator's or Software Architect's title may be, the money still goes to "IT".  What would you like the entire department be referred to as? Perhaps "Please dont call us IT as The New CIO Thinks it is demeaning we are Software Developers NetworkGuys DBAs Helpdesk SoftwareArchitects and ProductDevelopers"

If you seriously think that you'll have trouble retaining talent or recruiting because the business side refers to the people in tech as IT then you probably shouldn't be in that position anyway.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless everyone in Tech officially holds a title of " IT Person " , then who gives a flying fuck what the " technology " group is referred to as ?
Seems as if there are Developers , architects , dbas,helpdesk etc personnel in the " IT group " .
So what ?
You 're a cost center jackass , no one in the " business " gives two shits what your Systems Intergrator 's or Software Architect 's title may be , the money still goes to " IT " .
What would you like the entire department be referred to as ?
Perhaps " Please dont call us IT as The New CIO Thinks it is demeaning we are Software Developers NetworkGuys DBAs Helpdesk SoftwareArchitects and ProductDevelopers " If you seriously think that you 'll have trouble retaining talent or recruiting because the business side refers to the people in tech as IT then you probably should n't be in that position anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unless everyone in Tech officially holds a title of "IT Person", then who gives a flying fuck what the "technology" group is referred to as?
Seems as if there are Developers, architects, dbas,helpdesk etc personnel in the "IT group".
So what?
You're a cost center jackass,  no one in the "business" gives two shits what your Systems Intergrator's or Software Architect's title may be, the money still goes to "IT".
What would you like the entire department be referred to as?
Perhaps "Please dont call us IT as The New CIO Thinks it is demeaning we are Software Developers NetworkGuys DBAs Helpdesk SoftwareArchitects and ProductDevelopers"

If you seriously think that you'll have trouble retaining talent or recruiting because the business side refers to the people in tech as IT then you probably shouldn't be in that position anyway.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264836</id>
	<title>Lame</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259499240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Software engineering is not IT and is not in any way part of IT. The only people that say otherwise are the IT that have some fascination about being associated with software engineers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Software engineering is not IT and is not in any way part of IT .
The only people that say otherwise are the IT that have some fascination about being associated with software engineers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Software engineering is not IT and is not in any way part of IT.
The only people that say otherwise are the IT that have some fascination about being associated with software engineers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261266</id>
	<title>Sometimes titles are required.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259509140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm the "IT guy" for a small private school.  We have 30 or so servers, two locations, and about 300 laptops and desktops.</p><p>If it plugs in somewhere in either of our facilities, I'm responsible for making sure it works - and continues to work.</p><p>Sure, I work on higher level things like security policy, network architecture, budgets, and reports for the board and administration, but I also fix printers and workstations.</p><p>My title is IT director since the state Department of Education REQUIRES that my pay grade be given a "Director" role.  That's all well and good, but I don't get hung up about it.</p><p>Why?  Because some days I'm the IT director and some days I'm the IT janitor.  The reason I remain employed is that my attitude toward the job does not change on the days that I need to be the "janitor".</p><p>-ted</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm the " IT guy " for a small private school .
We have 30 or so servers , two locations , and about 300 laptops and desktops.If it plugs in somewhere in either of our facilities , I 'm responsible for making sure it works - and continues to work.Sure , I work on higher level things like security policy , network architecture , budgets , and reports for the board and administration , but I also fix printers and workstations.My title is IT director since the state Department of Education REQUIRES that my pay grade be given a " Director " role .
That 's all well and good , but I do n't get hung up about it.Why ?
Because some days I 'm the IT director and some days I 'm the IT janitor .
The reason I remain employed is that my attitude toward the job does not change on the days that I need to be the " janitor " .-ted</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm the "IT guy" for a small private school.
We have 30 or so servers, two locations, and about 300 laptops and desktops.If it plugs in somewhere in either of our facilities, I'm responsible for making sure it works - and continues to work.Sure, I work on higher level things like security policy, network architecture, budgets, and reports for the board and administration, but I also fix printers and workstations.My title is IT director since the state Department of Education REQUIRES that my pay grade be given a "Director" role.
That's all well and good, but I don't get hung up about it.Why?
Because some days I'm the IT director and some days I'm the IT janitor.
The reason I remain employed is that my attitude toward the job does not change on the days that I need to be the "janitor".-ted</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260120</id>
	<title>IT guys use the same about other departments</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259494140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Honestly, how often do we refer to some people as "He's from the marketing" without going into details. We are aware that marketing department has MBAs, it has interns, it has people who have studied IT, it has all these odd people who have studied language arts, philosophy or such... But we don't care. Why? To us it makes no difference what they have studied. We only care about what are their connections to us.</p><p>If you have a masters degree in computer science and you specialized in database technologies but you are doing the same low level tech support as the intern, you are referred to in a similar way. If not, you probably aren't. Or perhaps people will say "Some guy from IT will come and interview us today about that one project..." because they don't (need to) understand IT's work in more details. You can't fix that with fancier titles.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Honestly , how often do we refer to some people as " He 's from the marketing " without going into details .
We are aware that marketing department has MBAs , it has interns , it has people who have studied IT , it has all these odd people who have studied language arts , philosophy or such... But we do n't care .
Why ? To us it makes no difference what they have studied .
We only care about what are their connections to us.If you have a masters degree in computer science and you specialized in database technologies but you are doing the same low level tech support as the intern , you are referred to in a similar way .
If not , you probably are n't .
Or perhaps people will say " Some guy from IT will come and interview us today about that one project... " because they do n't ( need to ) understand IT 's work in more details .
You ca n't fix that with fancier titles .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Honestly, how often do we refer to some people as "He's from the marketing" without going into details.
We are aware that marketing department has MBAs, it has interns, it has people who have studied IT, it has all these odd people who have studied language arts, philosophy or such... But we don't care.
Why? To us it makes no difference what they have studied.
We only care about what are their connections to us.If you have a masters degree in computer science and you specialized in database technologies but you are doing the same low level tech support as the intern, you are referred to in a similar way.
If not, you probably aren't.
Or perhaps people will say "Some guy from IT will come and interview us today about that one project..." because they don't (need to) understand IT's work in more details.
You can't fix that with fancier titles.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260056</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261470</id>
	<title>I would want to know</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259510940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If I were the boss, I would want to know your feelings ASAP. You see, I would want to replace you before you could possibly do more harm to the company.</p><p>In my not so humble opinion, people who are driven by their title are petty (100\% of them). Most don't have any sense of teamwork at all. They are too busy trying to boost their own position and/or ego.</p><p>That you would be offended by the IT moniker while working in information technology tells me that you are not very bright. Your list of qualifications gives me confirmation. Your ego is bigger then your brain. The only advantage is that you can be easily swayed by things that don't matter.</p><p>I would sooner have/work for an intelligent person who is not overly concerned with his/her title.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If I were the boss , I would want to know your feelings ASAP .
You see , I would want to replace you before you could possibly do more harm to the company.In my not so humble opinion , people who are driven by their title are petty ( 100 \ % of them ) .
Most do n't have any sense of teamwork at all .
They are too busy trying to boost their own position and/or ego.That you would be offended by the IT moniker while working in information technology tells me that you are not very bright .
Your list of qualifications gives me confirmation .
Your ego is bigger then your brain .
The only advantage is that you can be easily swayed by things that do n't matter.I would sooner have/work for an intelligent person who is not overly concerned with his/her title .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I were the boss, I would want to know your feelings ASAP.
You see, I would want to replace you before you could possibly do more harm to the company.In my not so humble opinion, people who are driven by their title are petty (100\% of them).
Most don't have any sense of teamwork at all.
They are too busy trying to boost their own position and/or ego.That you would be offended by the IT moniker while working in information technology tells me that you are not very bright.
Your list of qualifications gives me confirmation.
Your ego is bigger then your brain.
The only advantage is that you can be easily swayed by things that don't matter.I would sooner have/work for an intelligent person who is not overly concerned with his/her title.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30269794</id>
	<title>I label myself...</title>
	<author>DarthVain</author>
	<datestamp>1259595660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>After years of describing what I do to eventually got tired of it and just succumbed to calling myself an "IT Guy" or "Works in IT". Its a label most people can understand, or at least not have to think too much about, and it is better than spending ten minutes of my life explaining things to a bunch of blank stares.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>After years of describing what I do to eventually got tired of it and just succumbed to calling myself an " IT Guy " or " Works in IT " .
Its a label most people can understand , or at least not have to think too much about , and it is better than spending ten minutes of my life explaining things to a bunch of blank stares .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After years of describing what I do to eventually got tired of it and just succumbed to calling myself an "IT Guy" or "Works in IT".
Its a label most people can understand, or at least not have to think too much about, and it is better than spending ten minutes of my life explaining things to a bunch of blank stares.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261340</id>
	<title>I am not in IT I am a developer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259509680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Tell you why I hate it, becasue I have people stopping by my office to tell me their such and such desktop software is not working correctly, I tell them I am not the person to tell that to, they say well you are in IT aren't you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Tell you why I hate it , becasue I have people stopping by my office to tell me their such and such desktop software is not working correctly , I tell them I am not the person to tell that to , they say well you are in IT are n't you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tell you why I hate it, becasue I have people stopping by my office to tell me their such and such desktop software is not working correctly, I tell them I am not the person to tell that to, they say well you are in IT aren't you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263696</id>
	<title>I hope you don't become a manager</title>
	<author>nlindstrom</author>
	<datestamp>1259488860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You sound like an ignorant, petty asshat.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You sound like an ignorant , petty asshat .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You sound like an ignorant, petty asshat.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260654</id>
	<title>Re:Self-important Douchebag</title>
	<author>lucm</author>
	<datestamp>1259501880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; [...] not liking something because the proles get to have it too is one of the worst features of human nature</p><p>I agree. At the office the management decided to give more vacation time to the tech guys, and many analysts complained that they now had the same vacation time as the "tech guys". At first I thought this was a joke... but no, that kind of people actually exists and apparently they are so self-righteous that they even manage to get their pathetic complaints in my Slashdot rss feed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; [ ... ] not liking something because the proles get to have it too is one of the worst features of human natureI agree .
At the office the management decided to give more vacation time to the tech guys , and many analysts complained that they now had the same vacation time as the " tech guys " .
At first I thought this was a joke... but no , that kind of people actually exists and apparently they are so self-righteous that they even manage to get their pathetic complaints in my Slashdot rss feed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; [...] not liking something because the proles get to have it too is one of the worst features of human natureI agree.
At the office the management decided to give more vacation time to the tech guys, and many analysts complained that they now had the same vacation time as the "tech guys".
At first I thought this was a joke... but no, that kind of people actually exists and apparently they are so self-righteous that they even manage to get their pathetic complaints in my Slashdot rss feed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260180</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30265212</id>
	<title>Re:IT Guy ?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259503200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seeing as though there is no word for a group of non-gender specific individuals, "guys" is a common substitute.</p><p>I have no issue with being called the 'IT guy', as opposed to 'Secretary'.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seeing as though there is no word for a group of non-gender specific individuals , " guys " is a common substitute.I have no issue with being called the 'IT guy ' , as opposed to 'Secretary' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seeing as though there is no word for a group of non-gender specific individuals, "guys" is a common substitute.I have no issue with being called the 'IT guy', as opposed to 'Secretary'.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260308</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260086</id>
	<title>Get over yourself IT guy</title>
	<author>Niobe</author>
	<datestamp>1259493540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Like it says</htmltext>
<tokenext>Like it says</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Like it says</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264828</id>
	<title>Re:Information Technology (IT)</title>
	<author>Mr\_Plattz</author>
	<datestamp>1259499180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;&gt;However, it's the equivalent of calling a Brain surgeon a <b>Doctor</b> </p><p>

Brain Surgeon == neurosurgeon. <br> <br>

Maybe we should get other professions correct before we start complaining about ourselves.<br> <br>

I've personally found outside of a technical company, you will always be the "IT people".  Even inside a technical company (and extremely technical, such as startups) you can still be "IT" if you don't have the employee foot print.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; &gt; However , it 's the equivalent of calling a Brain surgeon a Doctor Brain Surgeon = = neurosurgeon .
Maybe we should get other professions correct before we start complaining about ourselves .
I 've personally found outside of a technical company , you will always be the " IT people " .
Even inside a technical company ( and extremely technical , such as startups ) you can still be " IT " if you do n't have the employee foot print .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;&gt;However, it's the equivalent of calling a Brain surgeon a Doctor 

Brain Surgeon == neurosurgeon.
Maybe we should get other professions correct before we start complaining about ourselves.
I've personally found outside of a technical company, you will always be the "IT people".
Even inside a technical company (and extremely technical, such as startups) you can still be "IT" if you don't have the employee foot print.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260102</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261034</id>
	<title>Re:I am a software engineer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259506680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's an easy fix:<br>"I'm sorry Mr. software engineer - we only support the initial Windows image that was provided when we gave you a workstation when you accepted this job.<br>If you decide to wipe the disk on your COMPANY PROVIDED equipment and change that configuration to another operating system, we will let you do that.<br>HOWEVER, do not expect us to hire a new crew of people to support out of scope configurations to connect said system with altered configuration."</p><p>I'm an engineer, and I have my standard IT provided desktop with two monitors, as well as a "dev box" with Linux loaded on it, connected to a third monitor.<br>I use Synergy, so that I can use a single keyboard and mouse between both systems.<br>I have the power of Linux at my finger tips, while still using all the main Windows utilities provided by the company.</p><p>It seems rather arrogant to think that you should be able to attach whatever you want to your companies network, and then expect them to make it work.<br>Maybe you could setup your own exchange server, investigate the problem, and then report to them what you found to be that error.<br>Then ask RESPECTFULLY if they can make the necessary change to accommodate you.<br>If they say "NO", then don't get upset, they may have to keep the configuration that way so that your peer in the next office can connect his PC that he loaded up with old Atari code...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's an easy fix : " I 'm sorry Mr. software engineer - we only support the initial Windows image that was provided when we gave you a workstation when you accepted this job.If you decide to wipe the disk on your COMPANY PROVIDED equipment and change that configuration to another operating system , we will let you do that.HOWEVER , do not expect us to hire a new crew of people to support out of scope configurations to connect said system with altered configuration .
" I 'm an engineer , and I have my standard IT provided desktop with two monitors , as well as a " dev box " with Linux loaded on it , connected to a third monitor.I use Synergy , so that I can use a single keyboard and mouse between both systems.I have the power of Linux at my finger tips , while still using all the main Windows utilities provided by the company.It seems rather arrogant to think that you should be able to attach whatever you want to your companies network , and then expect them to make it work.Maybe you could setup your own exchange server , investigate the problem , and then report to them what you found to be that error.Then ask RESPECTFULLY if they can make the necessary change to accommodate you.If they say " NO " , then do n't get upset , they may have to keep the configuration that way so that your peer in the next office can connect his PC that he loaded up with old Atari code.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's an easy fix:"I'm sorry Mr. software engineer - we only support the initial Windows image that was provided when we gave you a workstation when you accepted this job.If you decide to wipe the disk on your COMPANY PROVIDED equipment and change that configuration to another operating system, we will let you do that.HOWEVER, do not expect us to hire a new crew of people to support out of scope configurations to connect said system with altered configuration.
"I'm an engineer, and I have my standard IT provided desktop with two monitors, as well as a "dev box" with Linux loaded on it, connected to a third monitor.I use Synergy, so that I can use a single keyboard and mouse between both systems.I have the power of Linux at my finger tips, while still using all the main Windows utilities provided by the company.It seems rather arrogant to think that you should be able to attach whatever you want to your companies network, and then expect them to make it work.Maybe you could setup your own exchange server, investigate the problem, and then report to them what you found to be that error.Then ask RESPECTFULLY if they can make the necessary change to accommodate you.If they say "NO", then don't get upset, they may have to keep the configuration that way so that your peer in the next office can connect his PC that he loaded up with old Atari code...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263352</id>
	<title>Re:Self-important Douchebag</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259528160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bullcrap.</p><p>There are 3 different levels or grades of Coca-Cola. And not only that, some other countries use cane sugar instead of HFCS. You definitely get what you pay for.</p><p>I cannot find the cars of the employees with titles starting with C\_ on any car lot within 50 miles. However, they still seem to be made by familiar brands.</p><p>So don't deny that some level of stratification is going on.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bullcrap.There are 3 different levels or grades of Coca-Cola .
And not only that , some other countries use cane sugar instead of HFCS .
You definitely get what you pay for.I can not find the cars of the employees with titles starting with C \ _ on any car lot within 50 miles .
However , they still seem to be made by familiar brands.So do n't deny that some level of stratification is going on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bullcrap.There are 3 different levels or grades of Coca-Cola.
And not only that, some other countries use cane sugar instead of HFCS.
You definitely get what you pay for.I cannot find the cars of the employees with titles starting with C\_ on any car lot within 50 miles.
However, they still seem to be made by familiar brands.So don't deny that some level of stratification is going on.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260180</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260046</id>
	<title>Petty?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259493120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sounds pretty petty to me. I have no problem at all with IT and don't see why anyone would. I don't care what my job's called as long as it interests/challanges me and provides a monthly paycheck. If you're that hung up with titles, I'd suggest your problem lies closer to home.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds pretty petty to me .
I have no problem at all with IT and do n't see why anyone would .
I do n't care what my job 's called as long as it interests/challanges me and provides a monthly paycheck .
If you 're that hung up with titles , I 'd suggest your problem lies closer to home .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds pretty petty to me.
I have no problem at all with IT and don't see why anyone would.
I don't care what my job's called as long as it interests/challanges me and provides a monthly paycheck.
If you're that hung up with titles, I'd suggest your problem lies closer to home.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262074</id>
	<title>You're right to care.</title>
	<author>JustNiz</author>
	<datestamp>1259516640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're right to care.<br>Because unfortunately labels really do affect the way that most people think about and treat you, especially upper-management types who make key decisions. They generally don't have the first clue about individually what the people below them actually do, and rely on labels to help them make policy decisions affecting groups. i.e. if everyone is called 'IT', a 'downsize the IT department' directive makes "lets do without some PC maintenance guys"  indistinguishable from "lets fire our top brains"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're right to care.Because unfortunately labels really do affect the way that most people think about and treat you , especially upper-management types who make key decisions .
They generally do n't have the first clue about individually what the people below them actually do , and rely on labels to help them make policy decisions affecting groups .
i.e. if everyone is called 'IT ' , a 'downsize the IT department ' directive makes " lets do without some PC maintenance guys " indistinguishable from " lets fire our top brains "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're right to care.Because unfortunately labels really do affect the way that most people think about and treat you, especially upper-management types who make key decisions.
They generally don't have the first clue about individually what the people below them actually do, and rely on labels to help them make policy decisions affecting groups.
i.e. if everyone is called 'IT', a 'downsize the IT department' directive makes "lets do without some PC maintenance guys"  indistinguishable from "lets fire our top brains"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262666</id>
	<title>degrees?</title>
	<author>OrangeTide</author>
	<datestamp>1259521320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>...but I spent a lot of years in grad school...</p></div><p>I'm sorry.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...but I spent a lot of years in grad school...I 'm sorry .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ...but I spent a lot of years in grad school...I'm sorry.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260112</id>
	<title>What's in a name</title>
	<author>SpaghettiPattern</author>
	<datestamp>1259494020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>When I graduated there was the programmer, technical designer, conceptual designer and analyst ladder to climb. And I tried it.<br> <br>

The you realize the tunnel view you get when following such a path. And after a couple of years of having tried to adopt a fancy name -senior consultant, senior anything- I resolved to name myself that what defines me. If people ask I'll tell them I'm a programmer. Doing well for years with a lovely family, a very good income and a sports car that turns heads. But still a programmer.<br> <br>

I can develop products -which is much more than coding-, I can look through the organization and suggest improvements and I can tell anyone paying me he's brilliant. Still I'm a programmer.<br> <br>

Mainstream will never be able to keep cracks charlatans so don't set your hopes too high on job titles.<br> <br>

Consider job titles at Google. Naming Vint Cerf an Internet Evangelist is a way of telling the world that job titles don't really matter and that the substance matters way more.</htmltext>
<tokenext>When I graduated there was the programmer , technical designer , conceptual designer and analyst ladder to climb .
And I tried it .
The you realize the tunnel view you get when following such a path .
And after a couple of years of having tried to adopt a fancy name -senior consultant , senior anything- I resolved to name myself that what defines me .
If people ask I 'll tell them I 'm a programmer .
Doing well for years with a lovely family , a very good income and a sports car that turns heads .
But still a programmer .
I can develop products -which is much more than coding- , I can look through the organization and suggest improvements and I can tell anyone paying me he 's brilliant .
Still I 'm a programmer .
Mainstream will never be able to keep cracks charlatans so do n't set your hopes too high on job titles .
Consider job titles at Google .
Naming Vint Cerf an Internet Evangelist is a way of telling the world that job titles do n't really matter and that the substance matters way more .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I graduated there was the programmer, technical designer, conceptual designer and analyst ladder to climb.
And I tried it.
The you realize the tunnel view you get when following such a path.
And after a couple of years of having tried to adopt a fancy name -senior consultant, senior anything- I resolved to name myself that what defines me.
If people ask I'll tell them I'm a programmer.
Doing well for years with a lovely family, a very good income and a sports car that turns heads.
But still a programmer.
I can develop products -which is much more than coding-, I can look through the organization and suggest improvements and I can tell anyone paying me he's brilliant.
Still I'm a programmer.
Mainstream will never be able to keep cracks charlatans so don't set your hopes too high on job titles.
Consider job titles at Google.
Naming Vint Cerf an Internet Evangelist is a way of telling the world that job titles don't really matter and that the substance matters way more.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260210</id>
	<title>Re:Information Technology (IT)</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259495400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think it's more like calling a brain surgeon, "medical staff", since that can apply to interns and support staff in the same way as IT.<br> <br>

You're right, but I also see his point.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it 's more like calling a brain surgeon , " medical staff " , since that can apply to interns and support staff in the same way as IT .
You 're right , but I also see his point .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it's more like calling a brain surgeon, "medical staff", since that can apply to interns and support staff in the same way as IT.
You're right, but I also see his point.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260102</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263582</id>
	<title>There *is* a difference in "Computer Work"</title>
	<author>WheelDweller</author>
	<datestamp>1259487240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In Huntsville, Alabama we were building systems from the ground up, creating communication structures and protocols to add to SCADA monitoring by Vaxen. These boards and sub-boards would one day regulate the flow of natural gas in pipelines all around Chicago.  That was computer work.</p><p>In Chicago, I was the 'goto guy' for a five-branch lumber yard. Sure, much of it was Windows hand-holding, but the viruses weren't engaged, yet. We were just getting on the net, and most of the work was still looked at, long-term.</p><p>My side job was creating and maintaining a supercomputer. Somewhere between Beowulf and completely-custom, our machine was to read all the nine-track tapes of every assembly-line's crash, and while watching the current run of the same line, inform people of possible crashes BEFORE it crashed, saving millions. My boss was told, "Bring this in, under-budget and under-shedule, and you'll get one of any car you like."  He supposed a Testerosa. His boss says, "What color?"</p><p>Then I get called back to Evansville to care for Mom. (now 79). Computer work here is *only* work that involves cleaning viruses from Windows boxes. With a couple of exceptions, like setting up a communal web site or a couple of LEGAL spam-cannons, all the work is waste-work.</p><p>For those first two types, there's GOT to be a different parlance than the third type. The work's just so different it's not funny.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In Huntsville , Alabama we were building systems from the ground up , creating communication structures and protocols to add to SCADA monitoring by Vaxen .
These boards and sub-boards would one day regulate the flow of natural gas in pipelines all around Chicago .
That was computer work.In Chicago , I was the 'goto guy ' for a five-branch lumber yard .
Sure , much of it was Windows hand-holding , but the viruses were n't engaged , yet .
We were just getting on the net , and most of the work was still looked at , long-term.My side job was creating and maintaining a supercomputer .
Somewhere between Beowulf and completely-custom , our machine was to read all the nine-track tapes of every assembly-line 's crash , and while watching the current run of the same line , inform people of possible crashes BEFORE it crashed , saving millions .
My boss was told , " Bring this in , under-budget and under-shedule , and you 'll get one of any car you like .
" He supposed a Testerosa .
His boss says , " What color ?
" Then I get called back to Evansville to care for Mom .
( now 79 ) .
Computer work here is * only * work that involves cleaning viruses from Windows boxes .
With a couple of exceptions , like setting up a communal web site or a couple of LEGAL spam-cannons , all the work is waste-work.For those first two types , there 's GOT to be a different parlance than the third type .
The work 's just so different it 's not funny .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In Huntsville, Alabama we were building systems from the ground up, creating communication structures and protocols to add to SCADA monitoring by Vaxen.
These boards and sub-boards would one day regulate the flow of natural gas in pipelines all around Chicago.
That was computer work.In Chicago, I was the 'goto guy' for a five-branch lumber yard.
Sure, much of it was Windows hand-holding, but the viruses weren't engaged, yet.
We were just getting on the net, and most of the work was still looked at, long-term.My side job was creating and maintaining a supercomputer.
Somewhere between Beowulf and completely-custom, our machine was to read all the nine-track tapes of every assembly-line's crash, and while watching the current run of the same line, inform people of possible crashes BEFORE it crashed, saving millions.
My boss was told, "Bring this in, under-budget and under-shedule, and you'll get one of any car you like.
"  He supposed a Testerosa.
His boss says, "What color?
"Then I get called back to Evansville to care for Mom.
(now 79).
Computer work here is *only* work that involves cleaning viruses from Windows boxes.
With a couple of exceptions, like setting up a communal web site or a couple of LEGAL spam-cannons, all the work is waste-work.For those first two types, there's GOT to be a different parlance than the third type.
The work's just so different it's not funny.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30267412</id>
	<title>Get over yourself.</title>
	<author>NateTech</author>
	<datestamp>1259523540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The CFO and a first year noob doing P&amp;L spreadsheet error correction are both called "Accountants", too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The CFO and a first year noob doing P&amp;L spreadsheet error correction are both called " Accountants " , too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The CFO and a first year noob doing P&amp;L spreadsheet error correction are both called "Accountants", too.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261818</id>
	<title>Title</title>
	<author>DeanFox</author>
	<datestamp>1259514540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><br>
All new hires get the title: Imperial Grand Master or Stuff and pay them $200k a year and see if they care.
<br> <br>
I'm a fairly talented guy and I'm not sure I could work for you or anyone else so into "titles" and "diplomas".  I remember political fights in one job because a front-end Director had more power than a back-end Director:  I.E. Director of XYZ as opposed to XYZ Director.  I couldn't find a new job fast enough.
<br> <br>
One V.P. I worked with 60+ years old boasted almost monthly of his "degree", I don't recall, maybe it was a M.A.  One meeting I calmly stated that what he was learning in college 45 years ago I was learning in High School 10 years ago.  Our meetings went much smoother after that.
<br> <br>
It's just my opinion but if you can only retain your version of "top talent" by giving them "titles" you're in for a wold of hurt on release day.
<br> <br>
-[d]-</htmltext>
<tokenext>All new hires get the title : Imperial Grand Master or Stuff and pay them $ 200k a year and see if they care .
I 'm a fairly talented guy and I 'm not sure I could work for you or anyone else so into " titles " and " diplomas " .
I remember political fights in one job because a front-end Director had more power than a back-end Director : I.E .
Director of XYZ as opposed to XYZ Director .
I could n't find a new job fast enough .
One V.P .
I worked with 60 + years old boasted almost monthly of his " degree " , I do n't recall , maybe it was a M.A .
One meeting I calmly stated that what he was learning in college 45 years ago I was learning in High School 10 years ago .
Our meetings went much smoother after that .
It 's just my opinion but if you can only retain your version of " top talent " by giving them " titles " you 're in for a wold of hurt on release day .
- [ d ] -</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
All new hires get the title: Imperial Grand Master or Stuff and pay them $200k a year and see if they care.
I'm a fairly talented guy and I'm not sure I could work for you or anyone else so into "titles" and "diplomas".
I remember political fights in one job because a front-end Director had more power than a back-end Director:  I.E.
Director of XYZ as opposed to XYZ Director.
I couldn't find a new job fast enough.
One V.P.
I worked with 60+ years old boasted almost monthly of his "degree", I don't recall, maybe it was a M.A.
One meeting I calmly stated that what he was learning in college 45 years ago I was learning in High School 10 years ago.
Our meetings went much smoother after that.
It's just my opinion but if you can only retain your version of "top talent" by giving them "titles" you're in for a wold of hurt on release day.
-[d]-</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260696</id>
	<title>Take the job anyway</title>
	<author>Skapare</author>
	<datestamp>1259502540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... then in a couple weeks, call a "forward planning meeting" and raise the issue of job DESCRIPTIONS and slip in job titles for each description.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... then in a couple weeks , call a " forward planning meeting " and raise the issue of job DESCRIPTIONS and slip in job titles for each description .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... then in a couple weeks, call a "forward planning meeting" and raise the issue of job DESCRIPTIONS and slip in job titles for each description.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30268154</id>
	<title>Re:I am a software engineer</title>
	<author>AbRASiON</author>
	<datestamp>1259576280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You have some valid points but I have actually seen a Compaq mouse have a specific incompatibility with an IBM PC, I'd never seen anything like it but it was a consistent fault.<br>Also the rest of your post reads like you're the exact kind of guy we don't want to deal with, always trying to find a way to breach security, demanding shit instantly and generally treating support staff like lower people.<br>I may be only a couple of rungs higher than a helpdesk but at least I came from one and respect what the poor schmucks do every day.<br>I wish I could sack you idiots.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You have some valid points but I have actually seen a Compaq mouse have a specific incompatibility with an IBM PC , I 'd never seen anything like it but it was a consistent fault.Also the rest of your post reads like you 're the exact kind of guy we do n't want to deal with , always trying to find a way to breach security , demanding shit instantly and generally treating support staff like lower people.I may be only a couple of rungs higher than a helpdesk but at least I came from one and respect what the poor schmucks do every day.I wish I could sack you idiots .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You have some valid points but I have actually seen a Compaq mouse have a specific incompatibility with an IBM PC, I'd never seen anything like it but it was a consistent fault.Also the rest of your post reads like you're the exact kind of guy we don't want to deal with, always trying to find a way to breach security, demanding shit instantly and generally treating support staff like lower people.I may be only a couple of rungs higher than a helpdesk but at least I came from one and respect what the poor schmucks do every day.I wish I could sack you idiots.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262032</id>
	<title>literacy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259516280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>too bad you didn't spend time getting good at english..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>too bad you did n't spend time getting good at english. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>too bad you didn't spend time getting good at english..</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30269548</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259593800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It is a respect issue.  I don't even get the "IT-guy" treatment - I get, "hey, computer guy".  I've worked with you losers for 7 years, you could at least show me the respect of remembering my name once and a while.  I don't walk around referring to folks as "hey, pencil pusher" or "hey, phone bitch".<br>As much as I'm tempted to do it - I don't see our Attorney and go "hey, soulless bastard with no chance of becoming human" to get his attention.</p><p>Job titles are a joke - and the punch line is your job entails "other duties as assigned".... We have folks here with job titles that entitle them to 80,000+ grand a year and in the end, they only have a High School education.  However, since they have a buddy here and there - they have a nice job title that comes with some nice money.</p><p>The very least an end-user can do is show some respect.  I take great care in trying to not make someone feel dumb when they can't print - because they haven't bothered to turn their printer on yet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is a respect issue .
I do n't even get the " IT-guy " treatment - I get , " hey , computer guy " .
I 've worked with you losers for 7 years , you could at least show me the respect of remembering my name once and a while .
I do n't walk around referring to folks as " hey , pencil pusher " or " hey , phone bitch " .As much as I 'm tempted to do it - I do n't see our Attorney and go " hey , soulless bastard with no chance of becoming human " to get his attention.Job titles are a joke - and the punch line is your job entails " other duties as assigned " .... We have folks here with job titles that entitle them to 80,000 + grand a year and in the end , they only have a High School education .
However , since they have a buddy here and there - they have a nice job title that comes with some nice money.The very least an end-user can do is show some respect .
I take great care in trying to not make someone feel dumb when they ca n't print - because they have n't bothered to turn their printer on yet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is a respect issue.
I don't even get the "IT-guy" treatment - I get, "hey, computer guy".
I've worked with you losers for 7 years, you could at least show me the respect of remembering my name once and a while.
I don't walk around referring to folks as "hey, pencil pusher" or "hey, phone bitch".As much as I'm tempted to do it - I don't see our Attorney and go "hey, soulless bastard with no chance of becoming human" to get his attention.Job titles are a joke - and the punch line is your job entails "other duties as assigned".... We have folks here with job titles that entitle them to 80,000+ grand a year and in the end, they only have a High School education.
However, since they have a buddy here and there - they have a nice job title that comes with some nice money.The very least an end-user can do is show some respect.
I take great care in trying to not make someone feel dumb when they can't print - because they haven't bothered to turn their printer on yet.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263028</id>
	<title>IT</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259524800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your best bet is to remove IT from the  intern who fixes windoze - call him a maintenance person like the guy that plugs in the projectors / TVs, moves desks about etc etc...</p><p>It is kind of like calling a nurse a doctor - still medical staff.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your best bet is to remove IT from the intern who fixes windoze - call him a maintenance person like the guy that plugs in the projectors / TVs , moves desks about etc etc...It is kind of like calling a nurse a doctor - still medical staff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your best bet is to remove IT from the  intern who fixes windoze - call him a maintenance person like the guy that plugs in the projectors / TVs, moves desks about etc etc...It is kind of like calling a nurse a doctor - still medical staff.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260196</id>
	<title>Re:Information Technology (IT)</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259495160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The op is not necessarily in IT just because he/she develops software.   Yes, IT as defined in your quote includes software applications, but in the context of providing information management solutions.  This is usually associated with in house work (and in the context of software services) like building an enterprise management system, or a paperless billing system, or a event and process management system.</p><p>If the OP expects to be developing software that is going to be sold to customers, then IMO he/she is not in IT.  I agree with the OP's worry that associating this kind of work with IT in general will either not target potential hirees apropriately at best, outright deter otherwise necessary and fitting talent, or allow management to hire someone else to handle some other domain in the IT realm but then have that person report to the OP in regards to software development efforts, which could be disastrously useless and misguided.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The op is not necessarily in IT just because he/she develops software .
Yes , IT as defined in your quote includes software applications , but in the context of providing information management solutions .
This is usually associated with in house work ( and in the context of software services ) like building an enterprise management system , or a paperless billing system , or a event and process management system.If the OP expects to be developing software that is going to be sold to customers , then IMO he/she is not in IT .
I agree with the OP 's worry that associating this kind of work with IT in general will either not target potential hirees apropriately at best , outright deter otherwise necessary and fitting talent , or allow management to hire someone else to handle some other domain in the IT realm but then have that person report to the OP in regards to software development efforts , which could be disastrously useless and misguided .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The op is not necessarily in IT just because he/she develops software.
Yes, IT as defined in your quote includes software applications, but in the context of providing information management solutions.
This is usually associated with in house work (and in the context of software services) like building an enterprise management system, or a paperless billing system, or a event and process management system.If the OP expects to be developing software that is going to be sold to customers, then IMO he/she is not in IT.
I agree with the OP's worry that associating this kind of work with IT in general will either not target potential hirees apropriately at best, outright deter otherwise necessary and fitting talent, or allow management to hire someone else to handle some other domain in the IT realm but then have that person report to the OP in regards to software development efforts, which could be disastrously useless and misguided.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260102</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30270148</id>
	<title>I prefer my usual title....</title>
	<author>LittleGuy</author>
	<datestamp>1259597820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"God".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" God " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"God".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263192</id>
	<title>Fer crying out loud...</title>
	<author>cts5678</author>
	<datestamp>1259526420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>if you dislike being called an "IT Guy" so much, why not just get a job on the back of a trash truck and pass out business cards that say "Sanitation Engineer"?

I'm finding out on Tuesday if I'm one of the 15\% of IT guys in our company who will be jettisoned because the economy is so bad.  Frankly I don't (and I'm sure my fellow IT guys as well don't) care if they call us sh!t bags as much as we'd prefer to remain employed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>if you dislike being called an " IT Guy " so much , why not just get a job on the back of a trash truck and pass out business cards that say " Sanitation Engineer " ?
I 'm finding out on Tuesday if I 'm one of the 15 \ % of IT guys in our company who will be jettisoned because the economy is so bad .
Frankly I do n't ( and I 'm sure my fellow IT guys as well do n't ) care if they call us sh ! t bags as much as we 'd prefer to remain employed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if you dislike being called an "IT Guy" so much, why not just get a job on the back of a trash truck and pass out business cards that say "Sanitation Engineer"?
I'm finding out on Tuesday if I'm one of the 15\% of IT guys in our company who will be jettisoned because the economy is so bad.
Frankly I don't (and I'm sure my fellow IT guys as well don't) care if they call us sh!t bags as much as we'd prefer to remain employed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260408</id>
	<title>Re:I swear</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259499120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Let's face it, if you're professionally involved with computers in a capacity beyond "use this magical glorified typewriter" you're probably someone's CPU fixer outside of work, and since expecting people to know how to be their own computer janitor for everything is close to expecting people to be able to fix their own car or tune their own piano flawlessly because they have one, it won't change. And sadly the tech-dumb don't realize either that the thing they have in their hands they basically know nothing about, because they "know how to use it."<br>
&nbsp; <br>You're in IT.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Let 's face it , if you 're professionally involved with computers in a capacity beyond " use this magical glorified typewriter " you 're probably someone 's CPU fixer outside of work , and since expecting people to know how to be their own computer janitor for everything is close to expecting people to be able to fix their own car or tune their own piano flawlessly because they have one , it wo n't change .
And sadly the tech-dumb do n't realize either that the thing they have in their hands they basically know nothing about , because they " know how to use it .
"   You 're in IT .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let's face it, if you're professionally involved with computers in a capacity beyond "use this magical glorified typewriter" you're probably someone's CPU fixer outside of work, and since expecting people to know how to be their own computer janitor for everything is close to expecting people to be able to fix their own car or tune their own piano flawlessly because they have one, it won't change.
And sadly the tech-dumb don't realize either that the thing they have in their hands they basically know nothing about, because they "know how to use it.
"
  You're in IT.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260830</id>
	<title>Re:Information Technology (IT)</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259504280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I play with computers. I don't work in IT. That is my job. It has nothing to do with corporate doublethink or keeping the infrastructure working in a way management thinks "looks" professional. I write software, and I hope good software. The big difference is that I don't work in a service industry. I don't want to.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I play with computers .
I do n't work in IT .
That is my job .
It has nothing to do with corporate doublethink or keeping the infrastructure working in a way management thinks " looks " professional .
I write software , and I hope good software .
The big difference is that I do n't work in a service industry .
I do n't want to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I play with computers.
I don't work in IT.
That is my job.
It has nothing to do with corporate doublethink or keeping the infrastructure working in a way management thinks "looks" professional.
I write software, and I hope good software.
The big difference is that I don't work in a service industry.
I don't want to.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260102</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260458</id>
	<title>Whatever you decide on, after reading, make sure..</title>
	<author>Provocateur</author>
	<datestamp>1259499660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>that you carry around a mug with THAT exact label on it, black on white. And it's got coffee, not pencils/pens.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>that you carry around a mug with THAT exact label on it , black on white .
And it 's got coffee , not pencils/pens .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>that you carry around a mug with THAT exact label on it, black on white.
And it's got coffee, not pencils/pens.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30268704</id>
	<title>Yes. E. W. Dijkstra knew it too</title>
	<author>ronzensci</author>
	<datestamp>1259584680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I dislike the term "IT Guy". I also give or ask for more details when someone's work is described as "s/he works with computers!". I have no clue what it means when someone is tagged as "working with computers".

I used to dislike the term so much that I actually quit the job profile completely to go freelance designer. I am happier now.

I am often reminded of this quote by Dijkstra when I think of the "IT Guy"

Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. - EW Dijkstra</div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I dislike the term " IT Guy " .
I also give or ask for more details when someone 's work is described as " s/he works with computers ! " .
I have no clue what it means when someone is tagged as " working with computers " .
I used to dislike the term so much that I actually quit the job profile completely to go freelance designer .
I am happier now .
I am often reminded of this quote by Dijkstra when I think of the " IT Guy " Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes .
- EW Dijkstra</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I dislike the term "IT Guy".
I also give or ask for more details when someone's work is described as "s/he works with computers!".
I have no clue what it means when someone is tagged as "working with computers".
I used to dislike the term so much that I actually quit the job profile completely to go freelance designer.
I am happier now.
I am often reminded of this quote by Dijkstra when I think of the "IT Guy"

Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes.
- EW Dijkstra
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260700</id>
	<title>Re:It could be worse</title>
	<author>giorgiofr</author>
	<datestamp>1259502540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I fail to see how developing new systems to enhance digital communications could be anything than Information Technology.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I fail to see how developing new systems to enhance digital communications could be anything than Information Technology .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I fail to see how developing new systems to enhance digital communications could be anything than Information Technology.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263756</id>
	<title>Re:Hrmm</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259489520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think a more apt analogy is that of the engineer who designs your car compared to the guy who sells you your gas. Sure, my car wouldn't run if I had noone to buy gas from, but that guy just doesn't deserve the same level of professional respect as the engineer</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think a more apt analogy is that of the engineer who designs your car compared to the guy who sells you your gas .
Sure , my car would n't run if I had noone to buy gas from , but that guy just does n't deserve the same level of professional respect as the engineer</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think a more apt analogy is that of the engineer who designs your car compared to the guy who sells you your gas.
Sure, my car wouldn't run if I had noone to buy gas from, but that guy just doesn't deserve the same level of professional respect as the engineer</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260074</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263034</id>
	<title>There is a big difference.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259524860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I *completely* understand what the poster is getting at. As much as there are a lot of qualified "IT" professionals, there is a huge distinction between someone who installs Windows and other software on end users' desktops and someone who engineers web services, applications and user interfaces. While they're both important jobs, I take pride in the intellectual and creative aspects of being a software engineer, and think that grouping with this aforementioned maintenance job is like confusing a surgeon with a nurse. The same applies to the title "web developer", as graphic designers out of community college can qualify for this sort of title without having any of the mathematical and/or theoretical background to properly understand web architecture, which is quite different but easily confused as being "web development".</p><p>On that note, I think it's okay to work in an IT department, but I think the individual's title is the most important, as it separates them from the slightly ambiguous name of the department for which they work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I * completely * understand what the poster is getting at .
As much as there are a lot of qualified " IT " professionals , there is a huge distinction between someone who installs Windows and other software on end users ' desktops and someone who engineers web services , applications and user interfaces .
While they 're both important jobs , I take pride in the intellectual and creative aspects of being a software engineer , and think that grouping with this aforementioned maintenance job is like confusing a surgeon with a nurse .
The same applies to the title " web developer " , as graphic designers out of community college can qualify for this sort of title without having any of the mathematical and/or theoretical background to properly understand web architecture , which is quite different but easily confused as being " web development " .On that note , I think it 's okay to work in an IT department , but I think the individual 's title is the most important , as it separates them from the slightly ambiguous name of the department for which they work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I *completely* understand what the poster is getting at.
As much as there are a lot of qualified "IT" professionals, there is a huge distinction between someone who installs Windows and other software on end users' desktops and someone who engineers web services, applications and user interfaces.
While they're both important jobs, I take pride in the intellectual and creative aspects of being a software engineer, and think that grouping with this aforementioned maintenance job is like confusing a surgeon with a nurse.
The same applies to the title "web developer", as graphic designers out of community college can qualify for this sort of title without having any of the mathematical and/or theoretical background to properly understand web architecture, which is quite different but easily confused as being "web development".On that note, I think it's okay to work in an IT department, but I think the individual's title is the most important, as it separates them from the slightly ambiguous name of the department for which they work.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264230</id>
	<title>Re:IT Guy ?</title>
	<author>fuzzyrabbit</author>
	<datestamp>1259493900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yeah, its quite amusing to watch the expressions on people's faces as they meet the female "IT guy"

Unfortunately I still have to prove myself in these situations, as a girl couldn't possibly know anything about IT.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , its quite amusing to watch the expressions on people 's faces as they meet the female " IT guy " Unfortunately I still have to prove myself in these situations , as a girl could n't possibly know anything about IT .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, its quite amusing to watch the expressions on people's faces as they meet the female "IT guy"

Unfortunately I still have to prove myself in these situations, as a girl couldn't possibly know anything about IT.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260308</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263128</id>
	<title>Re:I'm not an "IT guy".</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259525700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I "IT" is a term used by non-engineers as a catch-all for "that which my English degree failed to equip me to understand".  Kind of like when they say "microchip".</p><p>-jcr</p></div><p>I have an English degree, you insensitive clod! (Besides... everyone knows that IT is a pronoun... what's with the mass-butchery of capitalization today?)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I " IT " is a term used by non-engineers as a catch-all for " that which my English degree failed to equip me to understand " .
Kind of like when they say " microchip " .-jcrI have an English degree , you insensitive clod !
( Besides... everyone knows that IT is a pronoun... what 's with the mass-butchery of capitalization today ?
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I "IT" is a term used by non-engineers as a catch-all for "that which my English degree failed to equip me to understand".
Kind of like when they say "microchip".-jcrI have an English degree, you insensitive clod!
(Besides... everyone knows that IT is a pronoun... what's with the mass-butchery of capitalization today?
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260056</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30265158</id>
	<title>Re:I am a software engineer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259502600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>lol @ developers who think they know more sys-admin than sys-admins.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>lol @ developers who think they know more sys-admin than sys-admins .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>lol @ developers who think they know more sys-admin than sys-admins.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264000</id>
	<title>Job vs. Industry</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259491740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In my company we've got a CEO, CTO, HR, accountants, and a bunch of other folks with a wide variety of skills and specialties that I know almost nothing about.  I call them all management.</p><p>If you want a title that says "but I'm special" go ahead and ask for one.  But bear in mind that whenever you aren't looking, people are going to call you "that whiny IT guy."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In my company we 've got a CEO , CTO , HR , accountants , and a bunch of other folks with a wide variety of skills and specialties that I know almost nothing about .
I call them all management.If you want a title that says " but I 'm special " go ahead and ask for one .
But bear in mind that whenever you are n't looking , people are going to call you " that whiny IT guy .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my company we've got a CEO, CTO, HR, accountants, and a bunch of other folks with a wide variety of skills and specialties that I know almost nothing about.
I call them all management.If you want a title that says "but I'm special" go ahead and ask for one.
But bear in mind that whenever you aren't looking, people are going to call you "that whiny IT guy.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260662</id>
	<title>Make sure it's anything BUT</title>
	<author>Provocateur</author>
	<datestamp>1259501940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Chief Petty Officer</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Chief Petty Officer</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Chief Petty Officer</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260816</id>
	<title>IT, Operations and Engineering.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259504160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are right, using a single word like 'IT' to include 3 different departments with different roles is ambiguous and I believe shows a lack of organization in your company. You should definitely point it out.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; We have 3 distinct departments - IT, Operations and Engineering with 3 different roles - Desktops/Office Intranet, DataCenter, Software Engineering respectively.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are right , using a single word like 'IT ' to include 3 different departments with different roles is ambiguous and I believe shows a lack of organization in your company .
You should definitely point it out .
    We have 3 distinct departments - IT , Operations and Engineering with 3 different roles - Desktops/Office Intranet , DataCenter , Software Engineering respectively .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are right, using a single word like 'IT' to include 3 different departments with different roles is ambiguous and I believe shows a lack of organization in your company.
You should definitely point it out.
    We have 3 distinct departments - IT, Operations and Engineering with 3 different roles - Desktops/Office Intranet, DataCenter, Software Engineering respectively.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261688</id>
	<title>Fixing windows guy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259513340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We all need to spice up that title and engrave it into everyone's heads.. Right?<br>Funny how you degrade the fixing windows guy who may very well have spent years in his trade and worked just as hard as you have. While your studies may be focused on writing code the techs field is a bit more of a mixed bag requiring fundamental understanding of programming, hardware, knowledge for  multiple OS's for servers and desktops, deep network knowledge, security knowledge beyond just basic antivirus, and tons more. Your job depends on the tech who maintains your system and company network.<br>IT is Information Technology and sorry to break it to you but Software Developer's fall into this group Just like when people refer to management they are talking about everything between supervisors up to the CEO.<br>The fixing windows guy probably is network support, network engineering, server administration, security analyst, and who knows what other hats he wears. He may have a masters in computer science and hold countless comptia, cisco, microsoft, linux certs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We all need to spice up that title and engrave it into everyone 's heads.. Right ? Funny how you degrade the fixing windows guy who may very well have spent years in his trade and worked just as hard as you have .
While your studies may be focused on writing code the techs field is a bit more of a mixed bag requiring fundamental understanding of programming , hardware , knowledge for multiple OS 's for servers and desktops , deep network knowledge , security knowledge beyond just basic antivirus , and tons more .
Your job depends on the tech who maintains your system and company network.IT is Information Technology and sorry to break it to you but Software Developer 's fall into this group Just like when people refer to management they are talking about everything between supervisors up to the CEO.The fixing windows guy probably is network support , network engineering , server administration , security analyst , and who knows what other hats he wears .
He may have a masters in computer science and hold countless comptia , cisco , microsoft , linux certs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We all need to spice up that title and engrave it into everyone's heads.. Right?Funny how you degrade the fixing windows guy who may very well have spent years in his trade and worked just as hard as you have.
While your studies may be focused on writing code the techs field is a bit more of a mixed bag requiring fundamental understanding of programming, hardware, knowledge for  multiple OS's for servers and desktops, deep network knowledge, security knowledge beyond just basic antivirus, and tons more.
Your job depends on the tech who maintains your system and company network.IT is Information Technology and sorry to break it to you but Software Developer's fall into this group Just like when people refer to management they are talking about everything between supervisors up to the CEO.The fixing windows guy probably is network support, network engineering, server administration, security analyst, and who knows what other hats he wears.
He may have a masters in computer science and hold countless comptia, cisco, microsoft, linux certs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260958</id>
	<title>Re:I'll let you</title>
	<author>DoofusOfDeath</author>
	<datestamp>1259505720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>call me Sue if you'll give me a job.</p></div></blockquote><p><a href="http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1997-09-05/" title="dilbert.com">Shut up, Jennifer.</a> [dilbert.com]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>call me Sue if you 'll give me a job.Shut up , Jennifer .
[ dilbert.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>call me Sue if you'll give me a job.Shut up, Jennifer.
[dilbert.com]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263954</id>
	<title>Lofty View</title>
	<author>Flere Imsaho</author>
	<datestamp>1259491200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"I don't want the same label as the intern who fixes windoze"</p><p>That strikes me as a little condescending. Working helldesk well requires a special skill set.Try it yourself for a few weeks and see how you go.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" I do n't want the same label as the intern who fixes windoze " That strikes me as a little condescending .
Working helldesk well requires a special skill set.Try it yourself for a few weeks and see how you go .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"I don't want the same label as the intern who fixes windoze"That strikes me as a little condescending.
Working helldesk well requires a special skill set.Try it yourself for a few weeks and see how you go.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260376</id>
	<title>Who *cares*?</title>
	<author>Alioth</author>
	<datestamp>1259498700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I couldn't give a stuff what they call me. People at work generally know if they want their PC to be fixed, we have two people in the department who spend much time fixing PCs. They know if they need something developing, they go the developers. But it's all the "IT department" and the "IT guys". People seem to be able to figure out that we're not all the same, regardless.</p><p>Similarly, we call everyone in finance "the bean counters" right from the lowliest of them all the way up to the CFO.</p><p>Who cares.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I could n't give a stuff what they call me .
People at work generally know if they want their PC to be fixed , we have two people in the department who spend much time fixing PCs .
They know if they need something developing , they go the developers .
But it 's all the " IT department " and the " IT guys " .
People seem to be able to figure out that we 're not all the same , regardless.Similarly , we call everyone in finance " the bean counters " right from the lowliest of them all the way up to the CFO.Who cares .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I couldn't give a stuff what they call me.
People at work generally know if they want their PC to be fixed, we have two people in the department who spend much time fixing PCs.
They know if they need something developing, they go the developers.
But it's all the "IT department" and the "IT guys".
People seem to be able to figure out that we're not all the same, regardless.Similarly, we call everyone in finance "the bean counters" right from the lowliest of them all the way up to the CFO.Who cares.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261178</id>
	<title>Nice rant, but...</title>
	<author>Curmudgeonlyoldbloke</author>
	<datestamp>1259508240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>would you want to do their job on the money that they're being paid?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>would you want to do their job on the money that they 're being paid ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>would you want to do their job on the money that they're being paid?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262204</id>
	<title>Especially since I'm a gal</title>
	<author>vesuvana</author>
	<datestamp>1259517840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've overheard it even in companies where I've worked for years, usually in the form of "go get the IT guy" or "I think the IT guy said to do it that way." And no, I don't sport the gender-blurring unibrow. I figure it just reflects how all those lowly non-IT types see us as one single flavor of non-human. That's ok: fear breeds compliance.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've overheard it even in companies where I 've worked for years , usually in the form of " go get the IT guy " or " I think the IT guy said to do it that way .
" And no , I do n't sport the gender-blurring unibrow .
I figure it just reflects how all those lowly non-IT types see us as one single flavor of non-human .
That 's ok : fear breeds compliance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've overheard it even in companies where I've worked for years, usually in the form of "go get the IT guy" or "I think the IT guy said to do it that way.
" And no, I don't sport the gender-blurring unibrow.
I figure it just reflects how all those lowly non-IT types see us as one single flavor of non-human.
That's ok: fear breeds compliance.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263476</id>
	<title>Re:Yes, I do. But people don't call me one.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259485920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually in the UK you're not a "software architect" because it's not legal to call yourself an architect unless you're a building, golf course, landscape or naval architect.</p><p>http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1997/ukpga\_19970022\_en\_1</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually in the UK you 're not a " software architect " because it 's not legal to call yourself an architect unless you 're a building , golf course , landscape or naval architect.http : //www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1997/ukpga \ _19970022 \ _en \ _1</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually in the UK you're not a "software architect" because it's not legal to call yourself an architect unless you're a building, golf course, landscape or naval architect.http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1997/ukpga\_19970022\_en\_1</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260346</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261976</id>
	<title>I have a friend who Teases Other's about being</title>
	<author>fast turtle</author>
	<datestamp>1259515860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>an IT guy even though he makes a triple digit salary, gets a company vehicle and travels alot. What kind of work does he do you ask? Pretty simple really, he's a Service Tech for Printers/Copiers and yes He's in IT as IT refers to Information Tech and what is a Copier but a device for Copying Printed Information? Funny thing is, he actually makes more as a Service Tech then he would as a Service Engineer even though he'd get more respect from new customers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>an IT guy even though he makes a triple digit salary , gets a company vehicle and travels alot .
What kind of work does he do you ask ?
Pretty simple really , he 's a Service Tech for Printers/Copiers and yes He 's in IT as IT refers to Information Tech and what is a Copier but a device for Copying Printed Information ?
Funny thing is , he actually makes more as a Service Tech then he would as a Service Engineer even though he 'd get more respect from new customers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>an IT guy even though he makes a triple digit salary, gets a company vehicle and travels alot.
What kind of work does he do you ask?
Pretty simple really, he's a Service Tech for Printers/Copiers and yes He's in IT as IT refers to Information Tech and what is a Copier but a device for Copying Printed Information?
Funny thing is, he actually makes more as a Service Tech then he would as a Service Engineer even though he'd get more respect from new customers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261464</id>
	<title>Re:Grammar Nazi to the Rescue!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259510880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Please don't use the terms engineer or engineering when talking about software people in any job.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Please do n't use the terms engineer or engineering when talking about software people in any job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Please don't use the terms engineer or engineering when talking about software people in any job.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260042</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260808</id>
	<title>Re:Hrmm</title>
	<author>mjwx</author>
	<datestamp>1259504040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Programmers and the such, I put in the developers group. <b>Graphic designers</b>, html jockeys or software developers. The ones who make what people see on their desktops look pretty.</p></div></blockquote><p>

Graphic design is not in the IT field, we don't consider sales staff who know how to use MS Word to be IT people do we? Same thing with Graphic designers. They fall under the wing of marketing in most organisations, not operations and most barely understand how to open photoshop let alone be able to troubleshoot network connectivity.<br> <br>

Web designers (HTML/Flash coders), programmers and other types of developers I place under the developer moniker as most customers will not deal directly with developers I think this is mostly a moot point, the vast majority of dev's will only have to deal with their boss who should understand the difference between a sysadmin and a developer.<br> <br>

IT people are sysadmins, helpdesk, DBA's and the like. It's these people who have to deal with a companies unwashed masses and generally get the name "I.T. Guy". Personally I don't have a problem being the IT Guy, I work in IT and I'm a Guy, if I were a lady then I might have an issue but seeing as I'm not it's neither here nor there.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Programmers and the such , I put in the developers group .
Graphic designers , html jockeys or software developers .
The ones who make what people see on their desktops look pretty .
Graphic design is not in the IT field , we do n't consider sales staff who know how to use MS Word to be IT people do we ?
Same thing with Graphic designers .
They fall under the wing of marketing in most organisations , not operations and most barely understand how to open photoshop let alone be able to troubleshoot network connectivity .
Web designers ( HTML/Flash coders ) , programmers and other types of developers I place under the developer moniker as most customers will not deal directly with developers I think this is mostly a moot point , the vast majority of dev 's will only have to deal with their boss who should understand the difference between a sysadmin and a developer .
IT people are sysadmins , helpdesk , DBA 's and the like .
It 's these people who have to deal with a companies unwashed masses and generally get the name " I.T .
Guy " . Personally I do n't have a problem being the IT Guy , I work in IT and I 'm a Guy , if I were a lady then I might have an issue but seeing as I 'm not it 's neither here nor there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Programmers and the such, I put in the developers group.
Graphic designers, html jockeys or software developers.
The ones who make what people see on their desktops look pretty.
Graphic design is not in the IT field, we don't consider sales staff who know how to use MS Word to be IT people do we?
Same thing with Graphic designers.
They fall under the wing of marketing in most organisations, not operations and most barely understand how to open photoshop let alone be able to troubleshoot network connectivity.
Web designers (HTML/Flash coders), programmers and other types of developers I place under the developer moniker as most customers will not deal directly with developers I think this is mostly a moot point, the vast majority of dev's will only have to deal with their boss who should understand the difference between a sysadmin and a developer.
IT people are sysadmins, helpdesk, DBA's and the like.
It's these people who have to deal with a companies unwashed masses and generally get the name "I.T.
Guy". Personally I don't have a problem being the IT Guy, I work in IT and I'm a Guy, if I were a lady then I might have an issue but seeing as I'm not it's neither here nor there.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260074</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263102</id>
	<title>IT Guy Is Like Doctor</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259525520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In my family and friends group, we use IT guy like doctor. You feel sick, you go to a doctor, you need surgery, you go to a doctor, got a skin problem, you go see a doctor. When referring to a specific doctor, you can use the specific term: M.D., surgeon, dermatologist, etc. When family or friends have a pc problem, my friends and family refer to me as the IT Guy or IT Specialist. I don't see the big deal.</p><p>Then again, I've just graduated and am looking for a job as an 'IT Guy'.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In my family and friends group , we use IT guy like doctor .
You feel sick , you go to a doctor , you need surgery , you go to a doctor , got a skin problem , you go see a doctor .
When referring to a specific doctor , you can use the specific term : M.D. , surgeon , dermatologist , etc .
When family or friends have a pc problem , my friends and family refer to me as the IT Guy or IT Specialist .
I do n't see the big deal.Then again , I 've just graduated and am looking for a job as an 'IT Guy' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my family and friends group, we use IT guy like doctor.
You feel sick, you go to a doctor, you need surgery, you go to a doctor, got a skin problem, you go see a doctor.
When referring to a specific doctor, you can use the specific term: M.D., surgeon, dermatologist, etc.
When family or friends have a pc problem, my friends and family refer to me as the IT Guy or IT Specialist.
I don't see the big deal.Then again, I've just graduated and am looking for a job as an 'IT Guy'.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264520</id>
	<title>Re:IT Guy ?</title>
	<author>indifferenthues</author>
	<datestamp>1259496240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I am usually called some variation on "the Computer Lady" myself</htmltext>
<tokenext>I am usually called some variation on " the Computer Lady " myself</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am usually called some variation on "the Computer Lady" myself</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260308</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30279884</id>
	<title>The other guys</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259607900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've just dealt with being called an IT guy. The truth is, no one cares about anyones titles or job descriptions. In fact, as long as stuff gets done, I don't really care who does it. As long as my direct deposit goes in ever other friday, I don't care whether HR put it there, or accounting. I'm pretty sure they feel the same about us. As long as that new program you just made get's people paid, they don't care if Santa Claus made it. It's the reality of corporate america. "You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've just dealt with being called an IT guy .
The truth is , no one cares about anyones titles or job descriptions .
In fact , as long as stuff gets done , I do n't really care who does it .
As long as my direct deposit goes in ever other friday , I do n't care whether HR put it there , or accounting .
I 'm pretty sure they feel the same about us .
As long as that new program you just made get 's people paid , they do n't care if Santa Claus made it .
It 's the reality of corporate america .
" You are not special .
You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake .
You 're the same decaying organic matter as everything else .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've just dealt with being called an IT guy.
The truth is, no one cares about anyones titles or job descriptions.
In fact, as long as stuff gets done, I don't really care who does it.
As long as my direct deposit goes in ever other friday, I don't care whether HR put it there, or accounting.
I'm pretty sure they feel the same about us.
As long as that new program you just made get's people paid, they don't care if Santa Claus made it.
It's the reality of corporate america.
"You are not special.
You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake.
You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260148</id>
	<title>Next Ask Sloshdot question you should ask</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259494500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I suggest first you ask yourself, and if you still can't find an answer, ask Slashdot "Do I have to be a narscissistic, self-centered, prissy, attenttion seeking person?"  In this economy where millions of people lose their homes, don't have the means to feed their kids, lack basic health coverage and are grateful for the chance to flip burgers at McDonalds, you have the nerve to pout and poo poo a, I suppose, well paid job just because your colleagues-to-be would use a generic description to refer to what you do.  Have you seen a doctor throw a tantrum just because he's been called doctor, while in fact he's a cardiologist?</p><p>Please, do us all a favor and join a Wall Street firm where irresponsible, egotistical psychopaths are not called irresponsible, egotistical psychopaths, but investment bankers. (Disclaimer: I realize not everyone at Wall Street is an irresponsible, egotistical psychopath, but enough are to justify the characterization).</p><p>Just do your job well, and as long as you get the respect of your peers be grateful you are employed.</p><p>This is my fourth or fifth comment since I joined Slashdot almost ten years ago, but your question so incensed me I had to mouth off.</p><p>chepati.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I suggest first you ask yourself , and if you still ca n't find an answer , ask Slashdot " Do I have to be a narscissistic , self-centered , prissy , attenttion seeking person ?
" In this economy where millions of people lose their homes , do n't have the means to feed their kids , lack basic health coverage and are grateful for the chance to flip burgers at McDonalds , you have the nerve to pout and poo poo a , I suppose , well paid job just because your colleagues-to-be would use a generic description to refer to what you do .
Have you seen a doctor throw a tantrum just because he 's been called doctor , while in fact he 's a cardiologist ? Please , do us all a favor and join a Wall Street firm where irresponsible , egotistical psychopaths are not called irresponsible , egotistical psychopaths , but investment bankers .
( Disclaimer : I realize not everyone at Wall Street is an irresponsible , egotistical psychopath , but enough are to justify the characterization ) .Just do your job well , and as long as you get the respect of your peers be grateful you are employed.This is my fourth or fifth comment since I joined Slashdot almost ten years ago , but your question so incensed me I had to mouth off.chepati .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I suggest first you ask yourself, and if you still can't find an answer, ask Slashdot "Do I have to be a narscissistic, self-centered, prissy, attenttion seeking person?
"  In this economy where millions of people lose their homes, don't have the means to feed their kids, lack basic health coverage and are grateful for the chance to flip burgers at McDonalds, you have the nerve to pout and poo poo a, I suppose, well paid job just because your colleagues-to-be would use a generic description to refer to what you do.
Have you seen a doctor throw a tantrum just because he's been called doctor, while in fact he's a cardiologist?Please, do us all a favor and join a Wall Street firm where irresponsible, egotistical psychopaths are not called irresponsible, egotistical psychopaths, but investment bankers.
(Disclaimer: I realize not everyone at Wall Street is an irresponsible, egotistical psychopath, but enough are to justify the characterization).Just do your job well, and as long as you get the respect of your peers be grateful you are employed.This is my fourth or fifth comment since I joined Slashdot almost ten years ago, but your question so incensed me I had to mouth off.chepati.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261368</id>
	<title>hmmm</title>
	<author>1a1n</author>
	<datestamp>1259509920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Top tier talent that can't work out that IT renamed to something else maybe are not top tier.  Maybe the best idea is focus on what the job is rather than the title.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/i</htmltext>
<tokenext>Top tier talent that ca n't work out that IT renamed to something else maybe are not top tier .
Maybe the best idea is focus on what the job is rather than the title .
/i</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Top tier talent that can't work out that IT renamed to something else maybe are not top tier.
Maybe the best idea is focus on what the job is rather than the title.
/i</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261638</id>
	<title>IT guys vs. CS/CSE guys</title>
	<author>butlerm</author>
	<datestamp>1259512800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Traditionally, the IT department refers to the people who administer and support the systems used by the main line of business.  A company that develops software for resale, as part of some embedded system, or for some other primary line of business typically makes a distinction between the IT department and the software development / engineering departments.</p><p>Etymology aside, one of the reasons for the connotation of "IT" is that Information Technology majors are taught a completely different, business oriented curriculum than computer science and engineering majors are.  Perhaps it would be nice to come up with a more accurate name, but for now that is the way it is.</p><p>And the stigma will naturally stick with "IT" to the degree that it naturally employs a number of people that have substandard levels of education compared to engineers and the like, even though the higher ranking members of the field (especially in large companies) often don't deserve it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Traditionally , the IT department refers to the people who administer and support the systems used by the main line of business .
A company that develops software for resale , as part of some embedded system , or for some other primary line of business typically makes a distinction between the IT department and the software development / engineering departments.Etymology aside , one of the reasons for the connotation of " IT " is that Information Technology majors are taught a completely different , business oriented curriculum than computer science and engineering majors are .
Perhaps it would be nice to come up with a more accurate name , but for now that is the way it is.And the stigma will naturally stick with " IT " to the degree that it naturally employs a number of people that have substandard levels of education compared to engineers and the like , even though the higher ranking members of the field ( especially in large companies ) often do n't deserve it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Traditionally, the IT department refers to the people who administer and support the systems used by the main line of business.
A company that develops software for resale, as part of some embedded system, or for some other primary line of business typically makes a distinction between the IT department and the software development / engineering departments.Etymology aside, one of the reasons for the connotation of "IT" is that Information Technology majors are taught a completely different, business oriented curriculum than computer science and engineering majors are.
Perhaps it would be nice to come up with a more accurate name, but for now that is the way it is.And the stigma will naturally stick with "IT" to the degree that it naturally employs a number of people that have substandard levels of education compared to engineers and the like, even though the higher ranking members of the field (especially in large companies) often don't deserve it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260490</id>
	<title>I agree</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259499960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>IT is helpdesk, server admins and internal customer support.  You know, IT Operations that runs 24/7/365.</p><p>Software development has very little to do with that when done properly.</p><p>If the entire company does "IT", then none of you are "IT Guys", except, perhaps the email admins.</p><p>To me, IT means you have to deal with stupid users. For the first 15 yrs of my career, I worked in places where there was no IT department. Then I got 3x the money and took a job dealing with 17,000 idiot users designing systems. I wasn't part of a helpdesk or running servers. I designed the systems, software, networking, security to allow users to do their jobs and piss off millions of external customers. To my customers, I represented "IT", but they knew I wasn't the "IT Guy" since I refused to help with day to day desktop issues. That group wasn't even in my department, it was outsourced.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>IT is helpdesk , server admins and internal customer support .
You know , IT Operations that runs 24/7/365.Software development has very little to do with that when done properly.If the entire company does " IT " , then none of you are " IT Guys " , except , perhaps the email admins.To me , IT means you have to deal with stupid users .
For the first 15 yrs of my career , I worked in places where there was no IT department .
Then I got 3x the money and took a job dealing with 17,000 idiot users designing systems .
I was n't part of a helpdesk or running servers .
I designed the systems , software , networking , security to allow users to do their jobs and piss off millions of external customers .
To my customers , I represented " IT " , but they knew I was n't the " IT Guy " since I refused to help with day to day desktop issues .
That group was n't even in my department , it was outsourced .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IT is helpdesk, server admins and internal customer support.
You know, IT Operations that runs 24/7/365.Software development has very little to do with that when done properly.If the entire company does "IT", then none of you are "IT Guys", except, perhaps the email admins.To me, IT means you have to deal with stupid users.
For the first 15 yrs of my career, I worked in places where there was no IT department.
Then I got 3x the money and took a job dealing with 17,000 idiot users designing systems.
I wasn't part of a helpdesk or running servers.
I designed the systems, software, networking, security to allow users to do their jobs and piss off millions of external customers.
To my customers, I represented "IT", but they knew I wasn't the "IT Guy" since I refused to help with day to day desktop issues.
That group wasn't even in my department, it was outsourced.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261826</id>
	<title>Re:It's important</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259514600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When you have a problem with your paycheck, you call "accounting".  Are you talking to the employee distribution specialist, the accounts payable specialist, the person that is the liason between the employees and the insurance companies?  The person that handles the travel disbusments and contracts?  How about if you go to the reproduction center to get a package that was delivered.  To you ask for the copy tech, the people that distribute the mail?  The supervisor?  The Xerox tech?  The person that handles procurement?</p><p>My point is the average employee doesn't care and shouldn't care who they are dealing with, they just want the problem resolved and they go to or call the department that handles it.  Just as a user with a failed HD would come to the IT department to get it resolved.  When they first get there, they see IT people in the IT department and they want help.  Once there, you can direct them but the title on your door or your cube MEANS NOTHING TO THEM.  They are not IT people and they don't know the difference from a desktop engineer, network engineer, a software developer, the IT assistant, or a telecommunication specialist.  Walk into your HR, accounting, or the warehouse area of your company.  How many different people are in that area?  Do you know what each of them does, what their title is, what there title really means, and what they are responsible for?  Probably not.</p><p>I had an issue with a delay getting a Verizon DSL circuit installed in one of our remote offices.  I called Verizon Business DSL support and was told that it takes 2 weeks to get an install.  When I initially called and placed the order, I was told 3 days.  The person that told me "2 weeks" said I must have spoke to sales or support but a static line had to route through the provisioning department and it takes them 2 weeks.  You know what?  I did not call provisioning, support or whatever.  I called <b>Verizon</b>.  The number on the Verizon DSL website to call for new service and ordered a static line and was told 3 days.  I don't give a crap who I was talking to.  I planned on the line being installed around 3 days and scheduled other tasks around that time frame.  I didn't care who I talked to or what their title was when I called, I just wanted my problem resolved.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When you have a problem with your paycheck , you call " accounting " .
Are you talking to the employee distribution specialist , the accounts payable specialist , the person that is the liason between the employees and the insurance companies ?
The person that handles the travel disbusments and contracts ?
How about if you go to the reproduction center to get a package that was delivered .
To you ask for the copy tech , the people that distribute the mail ?
The supervisor ?
The Xerox tech ?
The person that handles procurement ? My point is the average employee does n't care and should n't care who they are dealing with , they just want the problem resolved and they go to or call the department that handles it .
Just as a user with a failed HD would come to the IT department to get it resolved .
When they first get there , they see IT people in the IT department and they want help .
Once there , you can direct them but the title on your door or your cube MEANS NOTHING TO THEM .
They are not IT people and they do n't know the difference from a desktop engineer , network engineer , a software developer , the IT assistant , or a telecommunication specialist .
Walk into your HR , accounting , or the warehouse area of your company .
How many different people are in that area ?
Do you know what each of them does , what their title is , what there title really means , and what they are responsible for ?
Probably not.I had an issue with a delay getting a Verizon DSL circuit installed in one of our remote offices .
I called Verizon Business DSL support and was told that it takes 2 weeks to get an install .
When I initially called and placed the order , I was told 3 days .
The person that told me " 2 weeks " said I must have spoke to sales or support but a static line had to route through the provisioning department and it takes them 2 weeks .
You know what ?
I did not call provisioning , support or whatever .
I called Verizon .
The number on the Verizon DSL website to call for new service and ordered a static line and was told 3 days .
I do n't give a crap who I was talking to .
I planned on the line being installed around 3 days and scheduled other tasks around that time frame .
I did n't care who I talked to or what their title was when I called , I just wanted my problem resolved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you have a problem with your paycheck, you call "accounting".
Are you talking to the employee distribution specialist, the accounts payable specialist, the person that is the liason between the employees and the insurance companies?
The person that handles the travel disbusments and contracts?
How about if you go to the reproduction center to get a package that was delivered.
To you ask for the copy tech, the people that distribute the mail?
The supervisor?
The Xerox tech?
The person that handles procurement?My point is the average employee doesn't care and shouldn't care who they are dealing with, they just want the problem resolved and they go to or call the department that handles it.
Just as a user with a failed HD would come to the IT department to get it resolved.
When they first get there, they see IT people in the IT department and they want help.
Once there, you can direct them but the title on your door or your cube MEANS NOTHING TO THEM.
They are not IT people and they don't know the difference from a desktop engineer, network engineer, a software developer, the IT assistant, or a telecommunication specialist.
Walk into your HR, accounting, or the warehouse area of your company.
How many different people are in that area?
Do you know what each of them does, what their title is, what there title really means, and what they are responsible for?
Probably not.I had an issue with a delay getting a Verizon DSL circuit installed in one of our remote offices.
I called Verizon Business DSL support and was told that it takes 2 weeks to get an install.
When I initially called and placed the order, I was told 3 days.
The person that told me "2 weeks" said I must have spoke to sales or support but a static line had to route through the provisioning department and it takes them 2 weeks.
You know what?
I did not call provisioning, support or whatever.
I called Verizon.
The number on the Verizon DSL website to call for new service and ordered a static line and was told 3 days.
I don't give a crap who I was talking to.
I planned on the line being installed around 3 days and scheduled other tasks around that time frame.
I didn't care who I talked to or what their title was when I called, I just wanted my problem resolved.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30266582</id>
	<title>Re:Member of Technical Staff</title>
	<author>Chirs</author>
	<datestamp>1259516220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I work for Nortel Networks.  Formerly Bell Northen Research, as mentioned by baptiste above.  Now being split up and bought by other companies.</p><p>I do mostly linux kernel development for phone network switches (adding custom features, fixing bugs, etc.), as well as some technical advising on userspace issues (concurrency, arcane parts of POSIX coding, etc.).</p><p>I think my current official job title is "software research, design, and development, job complexity index 3".  My boss is the same, but level 4.  His boss is level 5.  The title doesn't change.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I work for Nortel Networks .
Formerly Bell Northen Research , as mentioned by baptiste above .
Now being split up and bought by other companies.I do mostly linux kernel development for phone network switches ( adding custom features , fixing bugs , etc .
) , as well as some technical advising on userspace issues ( concurrency , arcane parts of POSIX coding , etc .
) .I think my current official job title is " software research , design , and development , job complexity index 3 " .
My boss is the same , but level 4 .
His boss is level 5 .
The title does n't change .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work for Nortel Networks.
Formerly Bell Northen Research, as mentioned by baptiste above.
Now being split up and bought by other companies.I do mostly linux kernel development for phone network switches (adding custom features, fixing bugs, etc.
), as well as some technical advising on userspace issues (concurrency, arcane parts of POSIX coding, etc.
).I think my current official job title is "software research, design, and development, job complexity index 3".
My boss is the same, but level 4.
His boss is level 5.
The title doesn't change.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262510</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260424</id>
	<title>Get used to it</title>
	<author>m1c4a1</author>
	<datestamp>1259499300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The term "hacker" was used to describe a technically advanced man, now its prevailing meaning is somebody who attacks networks and computers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The term " hacker " was used to describe a technically advanced man , now its prevailing meaning is somebody who attacks networks and computers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The term "hacker" was used to describe a technically advanced man, now its prevailing meaning is somebody who attacks networks and computers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261566</id>
	<title>Re:Self-important Douchebag</title>
	<author>Nimey</author>
	<datestamp>1259511900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Poor people don't drink single-malt Scotch or eat pate de foi gras.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Poor people do n't drink single-malt Scotch or eat pate de foi gras .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Poor people don't drink single-malt Scotch or eat pate de foi gras.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260180</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30281332</id>
	<title>Yes, I hate it, but I take the paycheck anyway</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1259668200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I HATE being called the IT guy.  That is a term generally referred to as the guy who fixes our computers.</p><p>My primary job is to manage the development of our software products.  When one of our support staff emails a customer or talks to them on the phone and says something like 'I've contacted our IT guys for help'  it just irks me.</p><p>But this is probably the only place I'll say it.</p><p>Why?</p><p>Because, like it or not, I am also the IT guy.  We're a small company, I DO fix our internal machines.  I DO manage our servers.  I DO help with customer issues.  I AM capable of doing all of these functions.  The reason I don't like being the IT guy is because I DON'T LIKE doing a lot of these things.  I like not getting paid even less, so I'll continue to be called the IT guy for a while in exchange for getting paid.</p><p>I don't like being called the IT guy because that makes me one of the people who get called when something completely unrelated to my primary job responsibility goes wrong.  I don't like dealing with customers or end users.  I don't like being called the IT guy because its not what <strong>I WANT</strong> to be.</p><p>I deal with being called the IT guy because the people calling me the IT guy don't mean it in a derogatory way, thats something in my head, not theirs.  The IT guy is still some mythical creature who can fix their PC and software.  To people outside of our world, the IT guy is still someone who knows far more about computing than they do.</p><p>The only thing wrong with being 'the IT guy' is in <strong>OUR</strong> heads.  Its our own selfish need to consider ourselves better than someone else.  Its our own need to be 'better' than the help desk guy.  In reality however, being good at help desk type work is extremely challenging.  Most developers limit themselves to know a particular subject matter very well (their own software).  Most help desk workers in the field (not the guys reading a script that have no idea how to deal with an unexpected situation at all) don't get that luxury.  They have to deal with our software, the OS, different patch levels, different interactions between our dependancies and the other 100 apps on the systems they deal with.</p><p>Being a good help desk tech is a lot like being a veterinarian versus a general practitioner on humans.  Most of them know a lot less about any given species of animal than the GP knows about humans.  They know about a TON of different species.  They know that just because a drug is has a specific effect on a poodle that doesn't mean it will have the same effect on a bird, or even a different type of poodle for that matter.  They know that what may help a German shepard could very well kill a border collie in a matter of minutes.  They know that in a lot of cases they need to stabilize the patient first, then figure out what the actual problem is and finally how they can address it.  They (help desk tech or vet, take your pick) have to deal with a far wider range of issues than we confine ourselves to, and because of that, they have to work by a different set of methods than we do.</p><p>You would do well to not take being called an IT guy as a bad thing, 99.9\% of the world looks up to their IT guys for help on a range of issues that they are fully aware they aren't the best suited to deal with.  They don't always expect you ('the IT guy') to know everything, but they expect you'll know more about it and possibly finding the right guy to fix the problem.  Yes, you find people who think its your job as 'the IT guy' to change a light bulb.  In most cases it IS better if you do it, even as a programmer, because you are FAR more likely to work safely with electricity than they are.  You are more likely to turn the switch off first at the very least.  Very few people account for the assholes who think of the IT guy as their bitch for doing crap that is beneath them.  These people will think of you that way regardless of what they call you.</p><p>Only a tiny fraction of the population really think of 'the IT guy' as a bad thing,</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I HATE being called the IT guy .
That is a term generally referred to as the guy who fixes our computers.My primary job is to manage the development of our software products .
When one of our support staff emails a customer or talks to them on the phone and says something like 'I 've contacted our IT guys for help ' it just irks me.But this is probably the only place I 'll say it.Why ? Because , like it or not , I am also the IT guy .
We 're a small company , I DO fix our internal machines .
I DO manage our servers .
I DO help with customer issues .
I AM capable of doing all of these functions .
The reason I do n't like being the IT guy is because I DO N'T LIKE doing a lot of these things .
I like not getting paid even less , so I 'll continue to be called the IT guy for a while in exchange for getting paid.I do n't like being called the IT guy because that makes me one of the people who get called when something completely unrelated to my primary job responsibility goes wrong .
I do n't like dealing with customers or end users .
I do n't like being called the IT guy because its not what I WANT to be.I deal with being called the IT guy because the people calling me the IT guy do n't mean it in a derogatory way , thats something in my head , not theirs .
The IT guy is still some mythical creature who can fix their PC and software .
To people outside of our world , the IT guy is still someone who knows far more about computing than they do.The only thing wrong with being 'the IT guy ' is in OUR heads .
Its our own selfish need to consider ourselves better than someone else .
Its our own need to be 'better ' than the help desk guy .
In reality however , being good at help desk type work is extremely challenging .
Most developers limit themselves to know a particular subject matter very well ( their own software ) .
Most help desk workers in the field ( not the guys reading a script that have no idea how to deal with an unexpected situation at all ) do n't get that luxury .
They have to deal with our software , the OS , different patch levels , different interactions between our dependancies and the other 100 apps on the systems they deal with.Being a good help desk tech is a lot like being a veterinarian versus a general practitioner on humans .
Most of them know a lot less about any given species of animal than the GP knows about humans .
They know about a TON of different species .
They know that just because a drug is has a specific effect on a poodle that does n't mean it will have the same effect on a bird , or even a different type of poodle for that matter .
They know that what may help a German shepard could very well kill a border collie in a matter of minutes .
They know that in a lot of cases they need to stabilize the patient first , then figure out what the actual problem is and finally how they can address it .
They ( help desk tech or vet , take your pick ) have to deal with a far wider range of issues than we confine ourselves to , and because of that , they have to work by a different set of methods than we do.You would do well to not take being called an IT guy as a bad thing , 99.9 \ % of the world looks up to their IT guys for help on a range of issues that they are fully aware they are n't the best suited to deal with .
They do n't always expect you ( 'the IT guy ' ) to know everything , but they expect you 'll know more about it and possibly finding the right guy to fix the problem .
Yes , you find people who think its your job as 'the IT guy ' to change a light bulb .
In most cases it IS better if you do it , even as a programmer , because you are FAR more likely to work safely with electricity than they are .
You are more likely to turn the switch off first at the very least .
Very few people account for the assholes who think of the IT guy as their bitch for doing crap that is beneath them .
These people will think of you that way regardless of what they call you.Only a tiny fraction of the population really think of 'the IT guy ' as a bad thing,</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I HATE being called the IT guy.
That is a term generally referred to as the guy who fixes our computers.My primary job is to manage the development of our software products.
When one of our support staff emails a customer or talks to them on the phone and says something like 'I've contacted our IT guys for help'  it just irks me.But this is probably the only place I'll say it.Why?Because, like it or not, I am also the IT guy.
We're a small company, I DO fix our internal machines.
I DO manage our servers.
I DO help with customer issues.
I AM capable of doing all of these functions.
The reason I don't like being the IT guy is because I DON'T LIKE doing a lot of these things.
I like not getting paid even less, so I'll continue to be called the IT guy for a while in exchange for getting paid.I don't like being called the IT guy because that makes me one of the people who get called when something completely unrelated to my primary job responsibility goes wrong.
I don't like dealing with customers or end users.
I don't like being called the IT guy because its not what I WANT to be.I deal with being called the IT guy because the people calling me the IT guy don't mean it in a derogatory way, thats something in my head, not theirs.
The IT guy is still some mythical creature who can fix their PC and software.
To people outside of our world, the IT guy is still someone who knows far more about computing than they do.The only thing wrong with being 'the IT guy' is in OUR heads.
Its our own selfish need to consider ourselves better than someone else.
Its our own need to be 'better' than the help desk guy.
In reality however, being good at help desk type work is extremely challenging.
Most developers limit themselves to know a particular subject matter very well (their own software).
Most help desk workers in the field (not the guys reading a script that have no idea how to deal with an unexpected situation at all) don't get that luxury.
They have to deal with our software, the OS, different patch levels, different interactions between our dependancies and the other 100 apps on the systems they deal with.Being a good help desk tech is a lot like being a veterinarian versus a general practitioner on humans.
Most of them know a lot less about any given species of animal than the GP knows about humans.
They know about a TON of different species.
They know that just because a drug is has a specific effect on a poodle that doesn't mean it will have the same effect on a bird, or even a different type of poodle for that matter.
They know that what may help a German shepard could very well kill a border collie in a matter of minutes.
They know that in a lot of cases they need to stabilize the patient first, then figure out what the actual problem is and finally how they can address it.
They (help desk tech or vet, take your pick) have to deal with a far wider range of issues than we confine ourselves to, and because of that, they have to work by a different set of methods than we do.You would do well to not take being called an IT guy as a bad thing, 99.9\% of the world looks up to their IT guys for help on a range of issues that they are fully aware they aren't the best suited to deal with.
They don't always expect you ('the IT guy') to know everything, but they expect you'll know more about it and possibly finding the right guy to fix the problem.
Yes, you find people who think its your job as 'the IT guy' to change a light bulb.
In most cases it IS better if you do it, even as a programmer, because you are FAR more likely to work safely with electricity than they are.
You are more likely to turn the switch off first at the very least.
Very few people account for the assholes who think of the IT guy as their bitch for doing crap that is beneath them.
These people will think of you that way regardless of what they call you.Only a tiny fraction of the population really think of 'the IT guy' as a bad thing,</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260242</id>
	<title>Anyone think of South Park after the summary?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259495940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Don't call me IT Guy, IT Buddy.  Don't call me IT Buddy, IT Friend."</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Do n't call me IT Guy , IT Buddy .
Do n't call me IT Buddy , IT Friend .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Don't call me IT Guy, IT Buddy.
Don't call me IT Buddy, IT Friend.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260238</id>
	<title>Member of Technical Staff</title>
	<author>argent</author>
	<datestamp>1259495940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's THE title at Bell Labs. If it's good enough for Dennis it's good enough for me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's THE title at Bell Labs .
If it 's good enough for Dennis it 's good enough for me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's THE title at Bell Labs.
If it's good enough for Dennis it's good enough for me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264036</id>
	<title>Re:Self-important Douchebag</title>
	<author>dangitman</author>
	<datestamp>1259492100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It means "information technology".</p></div><p>That doesn't help, as that is a particularly useless pairing of words that borders on being meaningless. Does that mean that somebody who prints books on a manual offset printer is in IT? After all, he's manipulating information with technology.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It means " information technology " .That does n't help , as that is a particularly useless pairing of words that borders on being meaningless .
Does that mean that somebody who prints books on a manual offset printer is in IT ?
After all , he 's manipulating information with technology .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It means "information technology".That doesn't help, as that is a particularly useless pairing of words that borders on being meaningless.
Does that mean that somebody who prints books on a manual offset printer is in IT?
After all, he's manipulating information with technology.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260180</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30274910</id>
	<title>Re:Yes, I do. But people don't call me one.</title>
	<author>Kevin Stevens</author>
	<datestamp>1259576460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I hear you on this- my main gripe with everyone lumped into "IT" is that there is no distinction between the creative aspects of the field and the maintenance aspects of the field, what you are referring to as the trades.</p><p>Part of the problem is the public's perception- when most people hear "IT" they think "he fixes computers." And while they often have the ability to do so, that is not their profession, and to be honest, I am not so sure how well I could really fix common computer problems anymore after being paid to program for the last 7 years.</p><p>My personal solution to this problem is that I tell people the industry I use my IT skills for- finance. It is really more accurate at this point because the code has become more or less effortless- the main problem is taking the tools/libraries I have and using them to solve problems in my field. Hence, when people ask, I say I work in finance, and then when people probe, I say I build automated trading systems. At that point people either get it and will ask relevant questions, or just ask something very clueless and I break out my grade level explanation of how the stock market used to work when traders yelled at each other on a trading floor and now its computers mostly talking to each other- I only tangentially mention that I program computers. On the rare occasion these days that I get asked to help fix someone's computer, I say I don't have a problem with that, my consulting rates are $100/hr, which will include travel time if you want me to come out to you. I feel if more people did this instead of giving away their time for free, perhaps IT would get more respect as well- it sends the message that you and IT people are a skill that should be valued, not that you are there on call to fix their problems for free every time they whack the monkey and then install the cool new program they won.</p><p>Some people out there may think this is just a big deal over nothing, try introducing a doctor at a party with the line "this is Jim, he works in healthcare" and see how well that goes over.  I think this issue will go away over time, it seems like I get more respect as a programmer as time goes on, and I also see this for the "IT" guys and such too- the jack of all IT guys are becoming a lot rarer, as the small companies those guys used to serve can generally be better served by outsourced services for things like email, networking, the company's website, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I hear you on this- my main gripe with everyone lumped into " IT " is that there is no distinction between the creative aspects of the field and the maintenance aspects of the field , what you are referring to as the trades.Part of the problem is the public 's perception- when most people hear " IT " they think " he fixes computers .
" And while they often have the ability to do so , that is not their profession , and to be honest , I am not so sure how well I could really fix common computer problems anymore after being paid to program for the last 7 years.My personal solution to this problem is that I tell people the industry I use my IT skills for- finance .
It is really more accurate at this point because the code has become more or less effortless- the main problem is taking the tools/libraries I have and using them to solve problems in my field .
Hence , when people ask , I say I work in finance , and then when people probe , I say I build automated trading systems .
At that point people either get it and will ask relevant questions , or just ask something very clueless and I break out my grade level explanation of how the stock market used to work when traders yelled at each other on a trading floor and now its computers mostly talking to each other- I only tangentially mention that I program computers .
On the rare occasion these days that I get asked to help fix someone 's computer , I say I do n't have a problem with that , my consulting rates are $ 100/hr , which will include travel time if you want me to come out to you .
I feel if more people did this instead of giving away their time for free , perhaps IT would get more respect as well- it sends the message that you and IT people are a skill that should be valued , not that you are there on call to fix their problems for free every time they whack the monkey and then install the cool new program they won.Some people out there may think this is just a big deal over nothing , try introducing a doctor at a party with the line " this is Jim , he works in healthcare " and see how well that goes over .
I think this issue will go away over time , it seems like I get more respect as a programmer as time goes on , and I also see this for the " IT " guys and such too- the jack of all IT guys are becoming a lot rarer , as the small companies those guys used to serve can generally be better served by outsourced services for things like email , networking , the company 's website , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hear you on this- my main gripe with everyone lumped into "IT" is that there is no distinction between the creative aspects of the field and the maintenance aspects of the field, what you are referring to as the trades.Part of the problem is the public's perception- when most people hear "IT" they think "he fixes computers.
" And while they often have the ability to do so, that is not their profession, and to be honest, I am not so sure how well I could really fix common computer problems anymore after being paid to program for the last 7 years.My personal solution to this problem is that I tell people the industry I use my IT skills for- finance.
It is really more accurate at this point because the code has become more or less effortless- the main problem is taking the tools/libraries I have and using them to solve problems in my field.
Hence, when people ask, I say I work in finance, and then when people probe, I say I build automated trading systems.
At that point people either get it and will ask relevant questions, or just ask something very clueless and I break out my grade level explanation of how the stock market used to work when traders yelled at each other on a trading floor and now its computers mostly talking to each other- I only tangentially mention that I program computers.
On the rare occasion these days that I get asked to help fix someone's computer, I say I don't have a problem with that, my consulting rates are $100/hr, which will include travel time if you want me to come out to you.
I feel if more people did this instead of giving away their time for free, perhaps IT would get more respect as well- it sends the message that you and IT people are a skill that should be valued, not that you are there on call to fix their problems for free every time they whack the monkey and then install the cool new program they won.Some people out there may think this is just a big deal over nothing, try introducing a doctor at a party with the line "this is Jim, he works in healthcare" and see how well that goes over.
I think this issue will go away over time, it seems like I get more respect as a programmer as time goes on, and I also see this for the "IT" guys and such too- the jack of all IT guys are becoming a lot rarer, as the small companies those guys used to serve can generally be better served by outsourced services for things like email, networking, the company's website, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260346</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260056</id>
	<title>I'm not an "IT guy".</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259493240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm a software developer.  In my experience, "IT" is a term used by non-engineers as a catch-all for "that which my English degree failed to equip me to understand".  Kind of like when they say "microchip".</p><p>-jcr</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm a software developer .
In my experience , " IT " is a term used by non-engineers as a catch-all for " that which my English degree failed to equip me to understand " .
Kind of like when they say " microchip " .-jcr</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm a software developer.
In my experience, "IT" is a term used by non-engineers as a catch-all for "that which my English degree failed to equip me to understand".
Kind of like when they say "microchip".-jcr</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261936</id>
	<title>I'm an IT guy and I love it...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259515620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I could care less what users refer to me as... The truth is I am an IT professional (guy) that engineers tier3-4 solutions (MCITP: EA, MCSE2k3, CCNP, etc). That being said, I'm never too busy to help one of our help desk guys out. If you think that you are too good to take out the trash, think again...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I could care less what users refer to me as... The truth is I am an IT professional ( guy ) that engineers tier3-4 solutions ( MCITP : EA , MCSE2k3 , CCNP , etc ) .
That being said , I 'm never too busy to help one of our help desk guys out .
If you think that you are too good to take out the trash , think again.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I could care less what users refer to me as... The truth is I am an IT professional (guy) that engineers tier3-4 solutions (MCITP: EA, MCSE2k3, CCNP, etc).
That being said, I'm never too busy to help one of our help desk guys out.
If you think that you are too good to take out the trash, think again...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30289742</id>
	<title>Re:Hrmm</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259665800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"You dont call someone who washes your car and gives it a bit of a polish a mechanic would you?"</p><p>HEY!!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" You dont call someone who washes your car and gives it a bit of a polish a mechanic would you ? " HEY ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"You dont call someone who washes your car and gives it a bit of a polish a mechanic would you?"HEY!!
!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260074</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260170</id>
	<title>re. IT guy</title>
	<author>ramjambam</author>
	<datestamp>1259494800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm one of those guys who fixes Windows, and I can understand you don't want to be lumped together with us<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:). How about calling yourself 'software engineers'?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm one of those guys who fixes Windows , and I can understand you do n't want to be lumped together with us : ) .
How about calling yourself 'software engineers ' ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm one of those guys who fixes Windows, and I can understand you don't want to be lumped together with us :).
How about calling yourself 'software engineers'?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262932</id>
	<title>Congratulations...</title>
	<author>rpmorri</author>
	<datestamp>1259523960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is the most idiotic rant I've read in a LONG time.  Please, go to the CEO and tell him how you feel about the title.  Let us know how long it takes him/her to boot your ass out the door.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is the most idiotic rant I 've read in a LONG time .
Please , go to the CEO and tell him how you feel about the title .
Let us know how long it takes him/her to boot your ass out the door .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is the most idiotic rant I've read in a LONG time.
Please, go to the CEO and tell him how you feel about the title.
Let us know how long it takes him/her to boot your ass out the door.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262478</id>
	<title>Re:I am a software engineer</title>
	<author>bigsexyjoe</author>
	<datestamp>1259519820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It is well known there are different levels of competency in all professions. And there is probably a higher level of variation in IT.  I know first hand there are very knowledgeable and very unknowledgeable people in sysadmin roles and such.
<p>
I say you should be looking at your organization and wondering why they aren't willing to pay for more competent people.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is well known there are different levels of competency in all professions .
And there is probably a higher level of variation in IT .
I know first hand there are very knowledgeable and very unknowledgeable people in sysadmin roles and such .
I say you should be looking at your organization and wondering why they are n't willing to pay for more competent people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is well known there are different levels of competency in all professions.
And there is probably a higher level of variation in IT.
I know first hand there are very knowledgeable and very unknowledgeable people in sysadmin roles and such.
I say you should be looking at your organization and wondering why they aren't willing to pay for more competent people.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260310</id>
	<title>now now sensitive are we ?</title>
	<author>BlindRobin</author>
	<datestamp>1259497200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>IT Guy sounds better than Accountant or Sanitary Engineer or Sales Guy or<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</htmltext>
<tokenext>IT Guy sounds better than Accountant or Sanitary Engineer or Sales Guy or .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IT Guy sounds better than Accountant or Sanitary Engineer or Sales Guy or ...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30265782</id>
	<title>is your CEO just a numbers guy?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259509560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I.T., is used as a general term to define anyone who uses a computer.</p><p>But I.T. guys, are 'users' of software such as managers, systems engineering and tech support and excel/script users.</p><p>Developers, programmers and software engineers(people who code), on the other hand, are as also in I.T., But you refer to them as there role.</p><p>IMHO anyone who doesn't code is an IT guy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I.T. , is used as a general term to define anyone who uses a computer.But I.T .
guys , are 'users ' of software such as managers , systems engineering and tech support and excel/script users.Developers , programmers and software engineers ( people who code ) , on the other hand , are as also in I.T. , But you refer to them as there role.IMHO anyone who does n't code is an IT guy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I.T., is used as a general term to define anyone who uses a computer.But I.T.
guys, are 'users' of software such as managers, systems engineering and tech support and excel/script users.Developers, programmers and software engineers(people who code), on the other hand, are as also in I.T., But you refer to them as there role.IMHO anyone who doesn't code is an IT guy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261828</id>
	<title>Re:I'm not an "IT guy".</title>
	<author>dbIII</author>
	<datestamp>1259514600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I'm a software developer. In my experience, "IT" is a term used by non-engineers as a catch-all for "that which my English degree failed to equip me to understand". Kind of like when they say "microchip".</p></div></blockquote><p>Sadly "engineer" is what people that did their Bachelor of Arts in IT subjects call themselves even if they do not understand what an engineer is let alone be eligible to be registered as a professional engineer - so don't be too hard on them.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm a software developer .
In my experience , " IT " is a term used by non-engineers as a catch-all for " that which my English degree failed to equip me to understand " .
Kind of like when they say " microchip " .Sadly " engineer " is what people that did their Bachelor of Arts in IT subjects call themselves even if they do not understand what an engineer is let alone be eligible to be registered as a professional engineer - so do n't be too hard on them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm a software developer.
In my experience, "IT" is a term used by non-engineers as a catch-all for "that which my English degree failed to equip me to understand".
Kind of like when they say "microchip".Sadly "engineer" is what people that did their Bachelor of Arts in IT subjects call themselves even if they do not understand what an engineer is let alone be eligible to be registered as a professional engineer - so don't be too hard on them.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260056</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262918</id>
	<title>Stupid question, badly phrased (are you trolling?)</title>
	<author>pondlife</author>
	<datestamp>1259523840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So apparently you want to be taken more seriously, but you decide to drop "windoze" into your question? Do you really think that the people who hand out jobs - and titles - care about your personal prejudices? As a professional, if the best solution for your company is "Microsoft`s platform" then you deliver it, you don't spend time complaining about how no one respects you because your proposal to migrate Visual Studio to vi isn't taken seriously. If it makes sense, make a business case for it and argue for it, but if the guys upstairs decide against it then either shut up or get out. This is what happens every day in Sales, Marketing, Production, Finance etc., but you seem to believe that IT is different.</p><p>If you're so obsessed about a job title then insist on it your contract. As some people say, that may make sense if you're concerned about your next job, but how bad is this job if you're already thinking about the next one?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So apparently you want to be taken more seriously , but you decide to drop " windoze " into your question ?
Do you really think that the people who hand out jobs - and titles - care about your personal prejudices ?
As a professional , if the best solution for your company is " Microsoft ` s platform " then you deliver it , you do n't spend time complaining about how no one respects you because your proposal to migrate Visual Studio to vi is n't taken seriously .
If it makes sense , make a business case for it and argue for it , but if the guys upstairs decide against it then either shut up or get out .
This is what happens every day in Sales , Marketing , Production , Finance etc. , but you seem to believe that IT is different.If you 're so obsessed about a job title then insist on it your contract .
As some people say , that may make sense if you 're concerned about your next job , but how bad is this job if you 're already thinking about the next one ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So apparently you want to be taken more seriously, but you decide to drop "windoze" into your question?
Do you really think that the people who hand out jobs - and titles - care about your personal prejudices?
As a professional, if the best solution for your company is "Microsoft`s platform" then you deliver it, you don't spend time complaining about how no one respects you because your proposal to migrate Visual Studio to vi isn't taken seriously.
If it makes sense, make a business case for it and argue for it, but if the guys upstairs decide against it then either shut up or get out.
This is what happens every day in Sales, Marketing, Production, Finance etc., but you seem to believe that IT is different.If you're so obsessed about a job title then insist on it your contract.
As some people say, that may make sense if you're concerned about your next job, but how bad is this job if you're already thinking about the next one?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262692</id>
	<title>A job title is a title nothing more.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259521560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>sounds like ur whining to me... a job title is just a job title nothing more nothing less.</p><p>I am a network engineer which also falls under IT umbrella. I really dont care what the title or name of it is as long as the paychecks keep flowing.</p><p>Also dont bash the interns trying to get a foot in the door. We all had to start somewhere, some of us are more fortunate then others in regards to education but still.</p><p>You are no better then anyone else just keep that in mind.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>sounds like ur whining to me... a job title is just a job title nothing more nothing less.I am a network engineer which also falls under IT umbrella .
I really dont care what the title or name of it is as long as the paychecks keep flowing.Also dont bash the interns trying to get a foot in the door .
We all had to start somewhere , some of us are more fortunate then others in regards to education but still.You are no better then anyone else just keep that in mind .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>sounds like ur whining to me... a job title is just a job title nothing more nothing less.I am a network engineer which also falls under IT umbrella.
I really dont care what the title or name of it is as long as the paychecks keep flowing.Also dont bash the interns trying to get a foot in the door.
We all had to start somewhere, some of us are more fortunate then others in regards to education but still.You are no better then anyone else just keep that in mind.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261754</id>
	<title>Yep it's an ego thing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259514060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>First of all I think this may be a troll article but here goes.
<br> <br>
This is the same thing as a doctor being irritated at being called mister.   Or perhaps more accurately a surgeon making sure you realize he's a surgeon not just a common doctor.  It's pure ego and silliness.  There are different sub-disciplines within every discipline and some are harder or easier than others.  That's what resumes and salaries are there to distinguish.  Trying to make sure people respect your sub-discipline with a title is a waste of time.  Go do your job and get paid and don't tie your self-worth to what others think of you or call you.
<br> <br>
My advice would be get over yourself...going to school is only valuable if you produce and "getting good at creating software" is an opinion...I'll decide how valuable you are when you're working for me.  There are many very smart folks who simply can't produce but will tell you they are geniuses if given half a chance.  If you produce I'll pay you what you're worth if you don't feel free to go back to school or work on getting better at creating technical products because you won't be working for me long.</htmltext>
<tokenext>First of all I think this may be a troll article but here goes .
This is the same thing as a doctor being irritated at being called mister .
Or perhaps more accurately a surgeon making sure you realize he 's a surgeon not just a common doctor .
It 's pure ego and silliness .
There are different sub-disciplines within every discipline and some are harder or easier than others .
That 's what resumes and salaries are there to distinguish .
Trying to make sure people respect your sub-discipline with a title is a waste of time .
Go do your job and get paid and do n't tie your self-worth to what others think of you or call you .
My advice would be get over yourself...going to school is only valuable if you produce and " getting good at creating software " is an opinion...I 'll decide how valuable you are when you 're working for me .
There are many very smart folks who simply ca n't produce but will tell you they are geniuses if given half a chance .
If you produce I 'll pay you what you 're worth if you do n't feel free to go back to school or work on getting better at creating technical products because you wo n't be working for me long .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First of all I think this may be a troll article but here goes.
This is the same thing as a doctor being irritated at being called mister.
Or perhaps more accurately a surgeon making sure you realize he's a surgeon not just a common doctor.
It's pure ego and silliness.
There are different sub-disciplines within every discipline and some are harder or easier than others.
That's what resumes and salaries are there to distinguish.
Trying to make sure people respect your sub-discipline with a title is a waste of time.
Go do your job and get paid and don't tie your self-worth to what others think of you or call you.
My advice would be get over yourself...going to school is only valuable if you produce and "getting good at creating software" is an opinion...I'll decide how valuable you are when you're working for me.
There are many very smart folks who simply can't produce but will tell you they are geniuses if given half a chance.
If you produce I'll pay you what you're worth if you don't feel free to go back to school or work on getting better at creating technical products because you won't be working for me long.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262314</id>
	<title>No matter.</title>
	<author>A Guy From Ottawa</author>
	<datestamp>1259518740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As long as their money is green, they can call me "ZIT guy" for all I care (which is fairly accurate some days<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</htmltext>
<tokenext>As long as their money is green , they can call me " ZIT guy " for all I care ( which is fairly accurate some days ; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As long as their money is green, they can call me "ZIT guy" for all I care (which is fairly accurate some days ;)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262510</id>
	<title>Re:Member of Technical Staff</title>
	<author>Animats</author>
	<datestamp>1259520000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
<i>That's THE title at Bell Labs.</i>
</p><p>
That was a long time ago.  And the important part was the "Bell Labs".
</p><p>
I got to see many of the famous great R&amp;D places in their glory days:  Bell Labs, Xerox PARC, HP Labs, DEC WRL and SRL, Ford Scientific Research Center, IBM Almaden Research.  They're all gone now, or a pale shadow of what they once were.  Microsoft and Google still have real R&amp;D operations, but that's about it for big corporate labs in computer science.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's THE title at Bell Labs .
That was a long time ago .
And the important part was the " Bell Labs " .
I got to see many of the famous great R&amp;D places in their glory days : Bell Labs , Xerox PARC , HP Labs , DEC WRL and SRL , Ford Scientific Research Center , IBM Almaden Research .
They 're all gone now , or a pale shadow of what they once were .
Microsoft and Google still have real R&amp;D operations , but that 's about it for big corporate labs in computer science .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
That's THE title at Bell Labs.
That was a long time ago.
And the important part was the "Bell Labs".
I got to see many of the famous great R&amp;D places in their glory days:  Bell Labs, Xerox PARC, HP Labs, DEC WRL and SRL, Ford Scientific Research Center, IBM Almaden Research.
They're all gone now, or a pale shadow of what they once were.
Microsoft and Google still have real R&amp;D operations, but that's about it for big corporate labs in computer science.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260238</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264954</id>
	<title>Beware of the title game</title>
	<author>PPH</author>
	<datestamp>1259500320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've worked for a couple of outfits that either build s/w as a part of a product, as its own end product, or just 'did' software to support in-house processes. Every time management would (mis)label their s/w development and/or maintenance people, it was a sign of struggles between internal corporate fiefdoms.</p><p>One outfit lumped all their desktop maintenance, server and network administration into the same outfit that did facilities maintenance, calling it 'Central Services' (I don't think the PHBs ever saw <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088846/" title="imdb.com">Brazil</a> [imdb.com]). We used to say that there was one number to call if your toilet backed up or your server didn't.</p><p>And then there's the company that builds commercial avionics equipment. Their IT department gobbled up responsibility for all internal software development. From business and accounting apps (payroll) to engineering applications. Finally, they went head to head with engineering and took over responsibility for embedded avionics development. And they'd use the same personnel and processes for developing the company home page as their autopilot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've worked for a couple of outfits that either build s/w as a part of a product , as its own end product , or just 'did ' software to support in-house processes .
Every time management would ( mis ) label their s/w development and/or maintenance people , it was a sign of struggles between internal corporate fiefdoms.One outfit lumped all their desktop maintenance , server and network administration into the same outfit that did facilities maintenance , calling it 'Central Services ' ( I do n't think the PHBs ever saw Brazil [ imdb.com ] ) .
We used to say that there was one number to call if your toilet backed up or your server did n't.And then there 's the company that builds commercial avionics equipment .
Their IT department gobbled up responsibility for all internal software development .
From business and accounting apps ( payroll ) to engineering applications .
Finally , they went head to head with engineering and took over responsibility for embedded avionics development .
And they 'd use the same personnel and processes for developing the company home page as their autopilot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've worked for a couple of outfits that either build s/w as a part of a product, as its own end product, or just 'did' software to support in-house processes.
Every time management would (mis)label their s/w development and/or maintenance people, it was a sign of struggles between internal corporate fiefdoms.One outfit lumped all their desktop maintenance, server and network administration into the same outfit that did facilities maintenance, calling it 'Central Services' (I don't think the PHBs ever saw Brazil [imdb.com]).
We used to say that there was one number to call if your toilet backed up or your server didn't.And then there's the company that builds commercial avionics equipment.
Their IT department gobbled up responsibility for all internal software development.
From business and accounting apps (payroll) to engineering applications.
Finally, they went head to head with engineering and took over responsibility for embedded avionics development.
And they'd use the same personnel and processes for developing the company home page as their autopilot.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263138</id>
	<title>Mystified</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259525820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What concerns me most about the term 'IT' is it being under siege by the managed services industry, working to convince business owners that they don't need that 'cost center' anymore. Most CFO's can't distinguish between developers and NOC monkeys, and would axe the whole department if they could only figure out why that memo never seems to arrive in the CEOs inbox. The other side of this is that every company with an IT department (including mine) is thinking of becoming a managed services company. As the 'IT guy' at my company, that scares the hell out of me - I've never wanted to be tethered to a datacenter and contractually obligated to fulfill five-nines. Nor am I qualified to manage exchange clusters and cisco infrastructure on our customers' behalf - but my boss would never understand why I don't know 'that stuff' and would only think less of me because of it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What concerns me most about the term 'IT ' is it being under siege by the managed services industry , working to convince business owners that they do n't need that 'cost center ' anymore .
Most CFO 's ca n't distinguish between developers and NOC monkeys , and would axe the whole department if they could only figure out why that memo never seems to arrive in the CEOs inbox .
The other side of this is that every company with an IT department ( including mine ) is thinking of becoming a managed services company .
As the 'IT guy ' at my company , that scares the hell out of me - I 've never wanted to be tethered to a datacenter and contractually obligated to fulfill five-nines .
Nor am I qualified to manage exchange clusters and cisco infrastructure on our customers ' behalf - but my boss would never understand why I do n't know 'that stuff ' and would only think less of me because of it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What concerns me most about the term 'IT' is it being under siege by the managed services industry, working to convince business owners that they don't need that 'cost center' anymore.
Most CFO's can't distinguish between developers and NOC monkeys, and would axe the whole department if they could only figure out why that memo never seems to arrive in the CEOs inbox.
The other side of this is that every company with an IT department (including mine) is thinking of becoming a managed services company.
As the 'IT guy' at my company, that scares the hell out of me - I've never wanted to be tethered to a datacenter and contractually obligated to fulfill five-nines.
Nor am I qualified to manage exchange clusters and cisco infrastructure on our customers' behalf - but my boss would never understand why I don't know 'that stuff' and would only think less of me because of it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260794</id>
	<title>Re:Information Technology (IT)</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259503740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><blockquote><div><p> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information\_technology#cite\_note-0" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">Information technology</a> [wikipedia.org] (IT), as defined by the Information Technology Association of America (ITAA), is "the study, design, development, implementation, support or management of computer-based information systems, particularly software applications and computer hardware."</p><p>IT deals with the use of electronic computers and computer software to convert, store, protect, process, transmit, and securely retrieve information.</p></div></blockquote><p>You <b>ARE</b> in IT.</p><p>However, it's the equivalent of calling a Brain surgeon a <b>Doctor</b></p><p>Or referring to a <b>Nuclear physicist</b> as a <b>scientist</b>.</p><p>It is kind of vague.   Sometimes being more specific is good, as it points out people's specialty more.</p></div><p>I agree with your point but I think a better comparison would be to say someone is a medical professional when they are a nurse,doctor,paramedic or saying some one is works in Criminal justice when they are a policeman,judge,paralegal. it is the most general of terms that engulfs many titles</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Information technology [ wikipedia.org ] ( IT ) , as defined by the Information Technology Association of America ( ITAA ) , is " the study , design , development , implementation , support or management of computer-based information systems , particularly software applications and computer hardware .
" IT deals with the use of electronic computers and computer software to convert , store , protect , process , transmit , and securely retrieve information.You ARE in IT.However , it 's the equivalent of calling a Brain surgeon a DoctorOr referring to a Nuclear physicist as a scientist.It is kind of vague .
Sometimes being more specific is good , as it points out people 's specialty more.I agree with your point but I think a better comparison would be to say someone is a medical professional when they are a nurse,doctor,paramedic or saying some one is works in Criminal justice when they are a policeman,judge,paralegal .
it is the most general of terms that engulfs many titles</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Information technology [wikipedia.org] (IT), as defined by the Information Technology Association of America (ITAA), is "the study, design, development, implementation, support or management of computer-based information systems, particularly software applications and computer hardware.
"IT deals with the use of electronic computers and computer software to convert, store, protect, process, transmit, and securely retrieve information.You ARE in IT.However, it's the equivalent of calling a Brain surgeon a DoctorOr referring to a Nuclear physicist as a scientist.It is kind of vague.
Sometimes being more specific is good, as it points out people's specialty more.I agree with your point but I think a better comparison would be to say someone is a medical professional when they are a nurse,doctor,paramedic or saying some one is works in Criminal justice when they are a policeman,judge,paralegal.
it is the most general of terms that engulfs many titles
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260102</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260542</id>
	<title>You could try something like...</title>
	<author>GravityStar</author>
	<datestamp>1259500620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Software Engineering<br>Hardware Engineering<br>Support<br>Operations<br>Development</p><p>Now, combine:<br>Database engineering<br>Database operations department<br>Desktop support<br>Deskside support<br>Network Operations<br>Network Engineering<br>ECM (Enterprise Content Management) Developer</p><p>Need I go on?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Software EngineeringHardware EngineeringSupportOperationsDevelopmentNow , combine : Database engineeringDatabase operations departmentDesktop supportDeskside supportNetwork OperationsNetwork EngineeringECM ( Enterprise Content Management ) DeveloperNeed I go on ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Software EngineeringHardware EngineeringSupportOperationsDevelopmentNow, combine:Database engineeringDatabase operations departmentDesktop supportDeskside supportNetwork OperationsNetwork EngineeringECM (Enterprise Content Management) DeveloperNeed I go on?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260698</id>
	<title>This is a generic problem</title>
	<author>Tomsk70</author>
	<datestamp>1259502540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It isn't just IT bods that suffer.</p><p>Plumbers can go through years of training, only to be told by an ignoramus that it only involves 'fixing taps'. If you work on cars, you can't say you're an enginge specialist, or similar - well, you can, but the general reply will be 'oh, so you work on cars'....and the list goes on....</p><p>However in IT, there is an exception - job ads. If the company wants someone server-level, but don't want to pay server wages, they'll advertise the job as 'IT Administrator', followed by a must-know list that's long/ deep enough to let anyone who actually does the job know that they're really looking for a server-bod who (for whatever reason) won't mind 1st-line-helpdesk wages. This happens when they don't want to pay a manager - your job interview includes two questions on servers, and twenty-five on management techniques (but the pay offered is waaaay below managerial - Reed have done this to me three times).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is n't just IT bods that suffer.Plumbers can go through years of training , only to be told by an ignoramus that it only involves 'fixing taps' .
If you work on cars , you ca n't say you 're an enginge specialist , or similar - well , you can , but the general reply will be 'oh , so you work on cars'....and the list goes on....However in IT , there is an exception - job ads .
If the company wants someone server-level , but do n't want to pay server wages , they 'll advertise the job as 'IT Administrator ' , followed by a must-know list that 's long/ deep enough to let anyone who actually does the job know that they 're really looking for a server-bod who ( for whatever reason ) wo n't mind 1st-line-helpdesk wages .
This happens when they do n't want to pay a manager - your job interview includes two questions on servers , and twenty-five on management techniques ( but the pay offered is waaaay below managerial - Reed have done this to me three times ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It isn't just IT bods that suffer.Plumbers can go through years of training, only to be told by an ignoramus that it only involves 'fixing taps'.
If you work on cars, you can't say you're an enginge specialist, or similar - well, you can, but the general reply will be 'oh, so you work on cars'....and the list goes on....However in IT, there is an exception - job ads.
If the company wants someone server-level, but don't want to pay server wages, they'll advertise the job as 'IT Administrator', followed by a must-know list that's long/ deep enough to let anyone who actually does the job know that they're really looking for a server-bod who (for whatever reason) won't mind 1st-line-helpdesk wages.
This happens when they don't want to pay a manager - your job interview includes two questions on servers, and twenty-five on management techniques (but the pay offered is waaaay below managerial - Reed have done this to me three times).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263002</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259524620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The term "IT Guy" certainly does have negative connotations.  The people on the other end of help lines are all "IT Guys/Girls".  This isn't a status thing, it's a self respect thing.  Those that are offended being called an "IT Guy" know they are more capable than what most refer to as the "IT Guy" and so would likely rather be called a tool or a freak because there's more self-respect in that than being called the "IT Guy".  Just my cowardly 2 cents.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The term " IT Guy " certainly does have negative connotations .
The people on the other end of help lines are all " IT Guys/Girls " .
This is n't a status thing , it 's a self respect thing .
Those that are offended being called an " IT Guy " know they are more capable than what most refer to as the " IT Guy " and so would likely rather be called a tool or a freak because there 's more self-respect in that than being called the " IT Guy " .
Just my cowardly 2 cents .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The term "IT Guy" certainly does have negative connotations.
The people on the other end of help lines are all "IT Guys/Girls".
This isn't a status thing, it's a self respect thing.
Those that are offended being called an "IT Guy" know they are more capable than what most refer to as the "IT Guy" and so would likely rather be called a tool or a freak because there's more self-respect in that than being called the "IT Guy".
Just my cowardly 2 cents.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264470</id>
	<title>No I don't, because</title>
	<author>ElectricHaggis</author>
	<datestamp>1259495820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's better than being called a Wanker.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's better than being called a Wanker .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's better than being called a Wanker.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261606</id>
	<title>"IT Guy" is not so bad</title>
	<author>Crosseyed &amp; Painless</author>
	<datestamp>1259512380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What I hate is being called "Techie" and being treated like I'm some kind of inscrutable little dwarf.  "Oh, you techies!"  "How can you expect me to click a little picture on the screen?  I'm not one of you techies!"  "Is the computer turned on?  How would I know, that's a techie thing!"  Fecking morons.</p><p>IT Guy would be a step up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What I hate is being called " Techie " and being treated like I 'm some kind of inscrutable little dwarf .
" Oh , you techies !
" " How can you expect me to click a little picture on the screen ?
I 'm not one of you techies !
" " Is the computer turned on ?
How would I know , that 's a techie thing !
" Fecking morons.IT Guy would be a step up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What I hate is being called "Techie" and being treated like I'm some kind of inscrutable little dwarf.
"Oh, you techies!
"  "How can you expect me to click a little picture on the screen?
I'm not one of you techies!
"  "Is the computer turned on?
How would I know, that's a techie thing!
"  Fecking morons.IT Guy would be a step up.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260974</id>
	<title>Jesus christ......</title>
	<author>AbRASiON</author>
	<datestamp>1259505900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We have some inane discussions here sometimes, I can't believe this one got approved, this is not some kind of intelligent question to be debated, the person who posed this question needs a short, simple beating (as does the aprover)</p><p>Csn we please get back to some IT discussion?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We have some inane discussions here sometimes , I ca n't believe this one got approved , this is not some kind of intelligent question to be debated , the person who posed this question needs a short , simple beating ( as does the aprover ) Csn we please get back to some IT discussion ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We have some inane discussions here sometimes, I can't believe this one got approved, this is not some kind of intelligent question to be debated, the person who posed this question needs a short, simple beating (as does the aprover)Csn we please get back to some IT discussion?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260204</id>
	<title>Re:Petty?</title>
	<author>x2A</author>
	<datestamp>1259495280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah but you're a girl.</p><p>(hehe how lost would my point be here if you actually were)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah but you 're a girl .
( hehe how lost would my point be here if you actually were )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah but you're a girl.
(hehe how lost would my point be here if you actually were)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260046</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264232</id>
	<title>'IT Guy' is a horrible title for a programmer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259493900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>as a programmer I do not want a job where I will be called the 'IT Guy' this is something I dread. Then in the middle of the development of some software I will be constantly interrupted by people expecting me to fix there printers or do some other mundane task that they should probably know how to do but are too lazy and think they can get away with not working for a while by doing something stupid to their computer. Then anything computer related becomes the job of the 'IT Guy' even if it shouldn't be there job. Like keyboard trays of for god sakes the keyboard trays. I worked at a place where when the workers would get lazy they would just break the tray holding there keyboard off the desk. Guess who's job they thought it was to fix this while they complained they couldn't work without it and left for a smoke break the 'IT Guy' there was even a dedicated 'Maintenance Guy' but since the keyboard tray was what the keyboard sat on it was obviously the job of the 'IT Guy' to climb under these desks and try to repair the garage. Yeah programmers please be very wary any time you would get a job as a programmer but your employers will let all the employees refer to you as 'IT Guy' seriously it is bad news. Get a proper title and a proper job description. Job description might be more important.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>as a programmer I do not want a job where I will be called the 'IT Guy ' this is something I dread .
Then in the middle of the development of some software I will be constantly interrupted by people expecting me to fix there printers or do some other mundane task that they should probably know how to do but are too lazy and think they can get away with not working for a while by doing something stupid to their computer .
Then anything computer related becomes the job of the 'IT Guy ' even if it should n't be there job .
Like keyboard trays of for god sakes the keyboard trays .
I worked at a place where when the workers would get lazy they would just break the tray holding there keyboard off the desk .
Guess who 's job they thought it was to fix this while they complained they could n't work without it and left for a smoke break the 'IT Guy ' there was even a dedicated 'Maintenance Guy ' but since the keyboard tray was what the keyboard sat on it was obviously the job of the 'IT Guy ' to climb under these desks and try to repair the garage .
Yeah programmers please be very wary any time you would get a job as a programmer but your employers will let all the employees refer to you as 'IT Guy ' seriously it is bad news .
Get a proper title and a proper job description .
Job description might be more important .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>as a programmer I do not want a job where I will be called the 'IT Guy' this is something I dread.
Then in the middle of the development of some software I will be constantly interrupted by people expecting me to fix there printers or do some other mundane task that they should probably know how to do but are too lazy and think they can get away with not working for a while by doing something stupid to their computer.
Then anything computer related becomes the job of the 'IT Guy' even if it shouldn't be there job.
Like keyboard trays of for god sakes the keyboard trays.
I worked at a place where when the workers would get lazy they would just break the tray holding there keyboard off the desk.
Guess who's job they thought it was to fix this while they complained they couldn't work without it and left for a smoke break the 'IT Guy' there was even a dedicated 'Maintenance Guy' but since the keyboard tray was what the keyboard sat on it was obviously the job of the 'IT Guy' to climb under these desks and try to repair the garage.
Yeah programmers please be very wary any time you would get a job as a programmer but your employers will let all the employees refer to you as 'IT Guy' seriously it is bad news.
Get a proper title and a proper job description.
Job description might be more important.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262262</id>
	<title>Technologist</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259518380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's better than "technologist".  Yeah I earned a B.S. in Technology.  Call me a scientist that works in the IT department.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's better than " technologist " .
Yeah I earned a B.S .
in Technology .
Call me a scientist that works in the IT department .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's better than "technologist".
Yeah I earned a B.S.
in Technology.
Call me a scientist that works in the IT department.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262486</id>
	<title>I'm just glad when they don't say geek!</title>
	<author>The Real Dr. Video</author>
	<datestamp>1259519820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wow, I only wish they would stop saying computer geeks!  I have been in the industry over 25 years, as both a programmer and an IT person.  I would love it if people would refer to me as an "IT Professional" or even "IT Guy".  Wherever it is you have been working you sure get a lot more respect than I have seen people in this industry get over the years.  On a related note, an Information Technology Professional is not even an acknowledged profession to many people.  I own a VAR and IT Consulting business and customers are always asking me "What does IT mean" if I happen to mention that we provide professional IT services.  My clientelle are primarily in the SMB space as well as Doctors,  Dentists, Accountants and other professionals with generally accepted designations.  Those professionals don't see IT people as "professionals" at all since they don't have a "professional body" or "college" that oversees their designation.

So, my answer to your query is this; Be happy somebody will even refer to you as something other than Computer Geek.  Being call "IT"-anything is a big show of respect.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow , I only wish they would stop saying computer geeks !
I have been in the industry over 25 years , as both a programmer and an IT person .
I would love it if people would refer to me as an " IT Professional " or even " IT Guy " .
Wherever it is you have been working you sure get a lot more respect than I have seen people in this industry get over the years .
On a related note , an Information Technology Professional is not even an acknowledged profession to many people .
I own a VAR and IT Consulting business and customers are always asking me " What does IT mean " if I happen to mention that we provide professional IT services .
My clientelle are primarily in the SMB space as well as Doctors , Dentists , Accountants and other professionals with generally accepted designations .
Those professionals do n't see IT people as " professionals " at all since they do n't have a " professional body " or " college " that oversees their designation .
So , my answer to your query is this ; Be happy somebody will even refer to you as something other than Computer Geek .
Being call " IT " -anything is a big show of respect .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow, I only wish they would stop saying computer geeks!
I have been in the industry over 25 years, as both a programmer and an IT person.
I would love it if people would refer to me as an "IT Professional" or even "IT Guy".
Wherever it is you have been working you sure get a lot more respect than I have seen people in this industry get over the years.
On a related note, an Information Technology Professional is not even an acknowledged profession to many people.
I own a VAR and IT Consulting business and customers are always asking me "What does IT mean" if I happen to mention that we provide professional IT services.
My clientelle are primarily in the SMB space as well as Doctors,  Dentists, Accountants and other professionals with generally accepted designations.
Those professionals don't see IT people as "professionals" at all since they don't have a "professional body" or "college" that oversees their designation.
So, my answer to your query is this; Be happy somebody will even refer to you as something other than Computer Geek.
Being call "IT"-anything is a big show of respect.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261010</id>
	<title>Philosophically, seems like a silly discussion</title>
	<author>smchris</author>
	<datestamp>1259506380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Call yourself by your functional role:  programmer, developer, sys admin, whatever. and, yeah, I suppose that can end up getting hyphenated.  My wife spent a decade or so building web sites but these days she mostly does customer service for the company's IBOs helping them set up their web sites.  She's still considered "in IT" because she's in the IT department but she's shifted to calling herself a "relations" person.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Call yourself by your functional role : programmer , developer , sys admin , whatever .
and , yeah , I suppose that can end up getting hyphenated .
My wife spent a decade or so building web sites but these days she mostly does customer service for the company 's IBOs helping them set up their web sites .
She 's still considered " in IT " because she 's in the IT department but she 's shifted to calling herself a " relations " person .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Call yourself by your functional role:  programmer, developer, sys admin, whatever.
and, yeah, I suppose that can end up getting hyphenated.
My wife spent a decade or so building web sites but these days she mostly does customer service for the company's IBOs helping them set up their web sites.
She's still considered "in IT" because she's in the IT department but she's shifted to calling herself a "relations" person.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30266820</id>
	<title>Information Technology</title>
	<author>illegalfrogs</author>
	<datestamp>1259518020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Break down the term Information Technology. What do those words suggest? To me, a field that facilitates the input, output, storage and analysis of information. An person who works in Information Technology could specialize in any function that keeps information moving. The lowly support specialists that work the help desk keep the users productive so that they can continue to enter data. The basic technicians ensure that the operating system runs as intended and that the hardware is upgraded as necessary. The software developers write code that allows data to be entered and processed in new ways. The hardware engineers design better machines to run the new code written by the developers. The technicians keep those better machines working, and the support specialists continue to aid the users. It's all about INFORMATION and it's TECHNOLOGY. It's a big circle, and you're in the food chain. It's true, you're all in IT together.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Break down the term Information Technology .
What do those words suggest ?
To me , a field that facilitates the input , output , storage and analysis of information .
An person who works in Information Technology could specialize in any function that keeps information moving .
The lowly support specialists that work the help desk keep the users productive so that they can continue to enter data .
The basic technicians ensure that the operating system runs as intended and that the hardware is upgraded as necessary .
The software developers write code that allows data to be entered and processed in new ways .
The hardware engineers design better machines to run the new code written by the developers .
The technicians keep those better machines working , and the support specialists continue to aid the users .
It 's all about INFORMATION and it 's TECHNOLOGY .
It 's a big circle , and you 're in the food chain .
It 's true , you 're all in IT together .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Break down the term Information Technology.
What do those words suggest?
To me, a field that facilitates the input, output, storage and analysis of information.
An person who works in Information Technology could specialize in any function that keeps information moving.
The lowly support specialists that work the help desk keep the users productive so that they can continue to enter data.
The basic technicians ensure that the operating system runs as intended and that the hardware is upgraded as necessary.
The software developers write code that allows data to be entered and processed in new ways.
The hardware engineers design better machines to run the new code written by the developers.
The technicians keep those better machines working, and the support specialists continue to aid the users.
It's all about INFORMATION and it's TECHNOLOGY.
It's a big circle, and you're in the food chain.
It's true, you're all in IT together.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260664</id>
	<title>IT professional!</title>
	<author>fluor2</author>
	<datestamp>1259501940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I really like Microsoft's way of defining IT people. They're either IT Professionals or Developers.<br>Being an IT Pro defines me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I really like Microsoft 's way of defining IT people .
They 're either IT Professionals or Developers.Being an IT Pro defines me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I really like Microsoft's way of defining IT people.
They're either IT Professionals or Developers.Being an IT Pro defines me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264002</id>
	<title>In this time of 'recession'</title>
	<author>necromcr</author>
	<datestamp>1259491740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm glad I'm called at all.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm glad I 'm called at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm glad I'm called at all.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260278</id>
	<title>I don't work in IT, but....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259496540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>It drove me nuts being in college and meeting "IT" majors. I would ask them questions like what they like to program in or what kind of Linux they use, but anything I asked beyond the technical skills required to setup a standard home Linksys router was met with a blank stare and an explanation of how good they are with anti-virus and firewalls. It made me wonder why as an aviation major I knew ten times more than any IT major I ever met.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It drove me nuts being in college and meeting " IT " majors .
I would ask them questions like what they like to program in or what kind of Linux they use , but anything I asked beyond the technical skills required to setup a standard home Linksys router was met with a blank stare and an explanation of how good they are with anti-virus and firewalls .
It made me wonder why as an aviation major I knew ten times more than any IT major I ever met .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It drove me nuts being in college and meeting "IT" majors.
I would ask them questions like what they like to program in or what kind of Linux they use, but anything I asked beyond the technical skills required to setup a standard home Linksys router was met with a blank stare and an explanation of how good they are with anti-virus and firewalls.
It made me wonder why as an aviation major I knew ten times more than any IT major I ever met.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263988</id>
	<title>Re:Grammar Nazi to the Rescue!</title>
	<author>dangitman</author>
	<datestamp>1259491620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> Deptartment</p></div><p>You're right - misspelling "department" in the name of your department is not going to go down well with educated people.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>DeptartmentYou 're right - misspelling " department " in the name of your department is not going to go down well with educated people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> DeptartmentYou're right - misspelling "department" in the name of your department is not going to go down well with educated people.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260042</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264506</id>
	<title>Re:I'm not an "IT guy".</title>
	<author>lennier</author>
	<datestamp>1259496120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"I'm not an "IT guy". I'm a software developer."</p><p>In other words, as a system administrator, you're our natural enemy.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>I joke, I joke. Sorta.</p><p>But seriously, you're the guys who write the stuff that we then have to make work. You think your job ends when the product is shipped... but it actually only begins for us then.</p><p>Then comes the running, and the screaming.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" I 'm not an " IT guy " .
I 'm a software developer .
" In other words , as a system administrator , you 're our natural enemy .
: ) I joke , I joke .
Sorta.But seriously , you 're the guys who write the stuff that we then have to make work .
You think your job ends when the product is shipped... but it actually only begins for us then.Then comes the running , and the screaming .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"I'm not an "IT guy".
I'm a software developer.
"In other words, as a system administrator, you're our natural enemy.
:)I joke, I joke.
Sorta.But seriously, you're the guys who write the stuff that we then have to make work.
You think your job ends when the product is shipped... but it actually only begins for us then.Then comes the running, and the screaming.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260056</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264782</id>
	<title>Don't be so condescending...</title>
	<author>Muros</author>
	<datestamp>1259498760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>to the "intern who fixes windoze". I can understand wanting some differentiation between different fields in IT, but just because someone does something different is no reason to look down on it. I fix computers for a living. Sure, the programmers who write software for the companies I provide tech support for know a lot more about programming than I do. But, apart from the occasional programmer I meet who is an all round computer guru, the vast majority of them have problems fixing the smallest problem outside of their own software. Me? Give me a problem and I'll fix it. Broken printer, broken scanner, broken whatever, I'll fix it or condemn it if it is beyond economical repair. Mac, Windows, SCO, AIX, Solaris, AS400, DGUX, HPUX, Linux, BSD, I don't care. If there's a problem, I'll either know how to sort it out or know how to figure out how to fix it. And I don't worry about what title I get. Most of my work is in network maintenance and security, but when I go to a customer's site, they view me as the guy who fixes the dot matrix printers. You know why? Because I do.</htmltext>
<tokenext>to the " intern who fixes windoze " .
I can understand wanting some differentiation between different fields in IT , but just because someone does something different is no reason to look down on it .
I fix computers for a living .
Sure , the programmers who write software for the companies I provide tech support for know a lot more about programming than I do .
But , apart from the occasional programmer I meet who is an all round computer guru , the vast majority of them have problems fixing the smallest problem outside of their own software .
Me ? Give me a problem and I 'll fix it .
Broken printer , broken scanner , broken whatever , I 'll fix it or condemn it if it is beyond economical repair .
Mac , Windows , SCO , AIX , Solaris , AS400 , DGUX , HPUX , Linux , BSD , I do n't care .
If there 's a problem , I 'll either know how to sort it out or know how to figure out how to fix it .
And I do n't worry about what title I get .
Most of my work is in network maintenance and security , but when I go to a customer 's site , they view me as the guy who fixes the dot matrix printers .
You know why ?
Because I do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>to the "intern who fixes windoze".
I can understand wanting some differentiation between different fields in IT, but just because someone does something different is no reason to look down on it.
I fix computers for a living.
Sure, the programmers who write software for the companies I provide tech support for know a lot more about programming than I do.
But, apart from the occasional programmer I meet who is an all round computer guru, the vast majority of them have problems fixing the smallest problem outside of their own software.
Me? Give me a problem and I'll fix it.
Broken printer, broken scanner, broken whatever, I'll fix it or condemn it if it is beyond economical repair.
Mac, Windows, SCO, AIX, Solaris, AS400, DGUX, HPUX, Linux, BSD, I don't care.
If there's a problem, I'll either know how to sort it out or know how to figure out how to fix it.
And I don't worry about what title I get.
Most of my work is in network maintenance and security, but when I go to a customer's site, they view me as the guy who fixes the dot matrix printers.
You know why?
Because I do.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260622</id>
	<title>It doesn't matter that much</title>
	<author>thetoadwarrior</author>
	<datestamp>1259501460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I find those that are worried about their title are generally those who obtained a degree and think that anything less than the title of their choice is offensive because they take their degree far too seriously or people who, for whatever reason (ie no degree or just stupid) don't feel qualified for the job and want a excellent job title to reaffirm they're doing their job right and it will help when they're caught out and need to be find a job elsewhere.
<br> <br>
We already have numerous title for someone who does programming. Too many in fact and it's because of those two types mentioned above or companies wanting to avoid paying a decent wage by giving you a title that is hard to compare to other titles.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I find those that are worried about their title are generally those who obtained a degree and think that anything less than the title of their choice is offensive because they take their degree far too seriously or people who , for whatever reason ( ie no degree or just stupid ) do n't feel qualified for the job and want a excellent job title to reaffirm they 're doing their job right and it will help when they 're caught out and need to be find a job elsewhere .
We already have numerous title for someone who does programming .
Too many in fact and it 's because of those two types mentioned above or companies wanting to avoid paying a decent wage by giving you a title that is hard to compare to other titles .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I find those that are worried about their title are generally those who obtained a degree and think that anything less than the title of their choice is offensive because they take their degree far too seriously or people who, for whatever reason (ie no degree or just stupid) don't feel qualified for the job and want a excellent job title to reaffirm they're doing their job right and it will help when they're caught out and need to be find a job elsewhere.
We already have numerous title for someone who does programming.
Too many in fact and it's because of those two types mentioned above or companies wanting to avoid paying a decent wage by giving you a title that is hard to compare to other titles.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263608</id>
	<title>Re:Information Technology (IT)</title>
	<author>decep</author>
	<datestamp>1259487600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, I think it is more like saying a brain surgeon is in "Health Care" and a Nuclear physicist is in the "Science field".
<br> <br>
At least "Doctor" and "Scientist" somewhat describe what a person does.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , I think it is more like saying a brain surgeon is in " Health Care " and a Nuclear physicist is in the " Science field " .
At least " Doctor " and " Scientist " somewhat describe what a person does .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, I think it is more like saying a brain surgeon is in "Health Care" and a Nuclear physicist is in the "Science field".
At least "Doctor" and "Scientist" somewhat describe what a person does.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260102</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260346</id>
	<title>Yes, I do. But people don't call me one.</title>
	<author>Kupfernigk</author>
	<datestamp>1259497980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I am a systems architect. I've been a systems architect on and off for 25 years. During that time my job title has included Engineering Director, CFO, Systems Manager and CIO, depending on the size of company I've worked for.<p>Would you call someone who designs aircraft engines a mechanic? Would you call someone who designs central heating boilers a plumber? Would you call someone who runs a team working on ALU design at Intel an electrician?</p><p>My point is that nowadays IT is actually a trade, and mostly attracts the sort of people who in the past would have become plumbers, electricians and mechanics. Which is not to knock them, because these are essential and valuable trades, but basically they implement what other people have designed and specified. Programmers who are not just coders, systems designers, user interface designers - these are creative professions.</p><p>In the UK we have a terrible tradition of confusing professionals with tradesmen, caused by our emphasis on "administrative" skills. We've just had the Government dismiss their principal expert on drugs because he dared to disagree with the irrational "omg smelling cannabis kills you I need a stiff drink or five before I can go back to work" culture of the Government and the Civil Service. In a properly organised world we would sack the Government for lying to us, but in the mind of the Govt., Prof. Nutt's status is about that of a plumber. The point is that you go to tradesmen for advice on implementation of what you want to do, but you go to professionals to tell you what to do in the first place. You somehow need to get back to that position (I say you. I hope to retire in 5-6 years; then it will be someone else's problem. For now, I am quite happy being a software architect, because that is actually what I do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am a systems architect .
I 've been a systems architect on and off for 25 years .
During that time my job title has included Engineering Director , CFO , Systems Manager and CIO , depending on the size of company I 've worked for.Would you call someone who designs aircraft engines a mechanic ?
Would you call someone who designs central heating boilers a plumber ?
Would you call someone who runs a team working on ALU design at Intel an electrician ? My point is that nowadays IT is actually a trade , and mostly attracts the sort of people who in the past would have become plumbers , electricians and mechanics .
Which is not to knock them , because these are essential and valuable trades , but basically they implement what other people have designed and specified .
Programmers who are not just coders , systems designers , user interface designers - these are creative professions.In the UK we have a terrible tradition of confusing professionals with tradesmen , caused by our emphasis on " administrative " skills .
We 've just had the Government dismiss their principal expert on drugs because he dared to disagree with the irrational " omg smelling cannabis kills you I need a stiff drink or five before I can go back to work " culture of the Government and the Civil Service .
In a properly organised world we would sack the Government for lying to us , but in the mind of the Govt. , Prof. Nutt 's status is about that of a plumber .
The point is that you go to tradesmen for advice on implementation of what you want to do , but you go to professionals to tell you what to do in the first place .
You somehow need to get back to that position ( I say you .
I hope to retire in 5-6 years ; then it will be someone else 's problem .
For now , I am quite happy being a software architect , because that is actually what I do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am a systems architect.
I've been a systems architect on and off for 25 years.
During that time my job title has included Engineering Director, CFO, Systems Manager and CIO, depending on the size of company I've worked for.Would you call someone who designs aircraft engines a mechanic?
Would you call someone who designs central heating boilers a plumber?
Would you call someone who runs a team working on ALU design at Intel an electrician?My point is that nowadays IT is actually a trade, and mostly attracts the sort of people who in the past would have become plumbers, electricians and mechanics.
Which is not to knock them, because these are essential and valuable trades, but basically they implement what other people have designed and specified.
Programmers who are not just coders, systems designers, user interface designers - these are creative professions.In the UK we have a terrible tradition of confusing professionals with tradesmen, caused by our emphasis on "administrative" skills.
We've just had the Government dismiss their principal expert on drugs because he dared to disagree with the irrational "omg smelling cannabis kills you I need a stiff drink or five before I can go back to work" culture of the Government and the Civil Service.
In a properly organised world we would sack the Government for lying to us, but in the mind of the Govt., Prof. Nutt's status is about that of a plumber.
The point is that you go to tradesmen for advice on implementation of what you want to do, but you go to professionals to tell you what to do in the first place.
You somehow need to get back to that position (I say you.
I hope to retire in 5-6 years; then it will be someone else's problem.
For now, I am quite happy being a software architect, because that is actually what I do.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261892</id>
	<title>Re:Grammar Nazi to the Rescue!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259515260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As an engineer, please don't change it to "engineering department" if they aren't full of either: degree-holding professional engineers; or, train conductors.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As an engineer , please do n't change it to " engineering department " if they are n't full of either : degree-holding professional engineers ; or , train conductors .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As an engineer, please don't change it to "engineering department" if they aren't full of either: degree-holding professional engineers; or, train conductors.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260042</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261336</id>
	<title>Re:Self-important Douchebag</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259509680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>How does the following passage make you feel? Does it make you feel comforted or outraged?<br>
<br>
"What's great about this country is that America started the tradition where the richest consumers buy essentially the same things as the poorest. You can be watching TV and see Coca-Cola, and you know that the President drinks Coke, Liz Taylor drinks Coke, and just think, you can drink Coke, too. A Coke is a Coke and no amount of money can get you a better Coke than the one the bum on the corner is drinking. All the Cokes are the same and all the Cokes are good. Liz Taylor knows it, the President knows it, the bum knows it, and you know it."
--Andy Warhol</i> <br>
<br>
To be fair, it seems that <i>everyone</i> in the Americas (North, Central, and South) to the exclusion of those living in the United States of America get to drink the <i>good</i> Coke (made with real sugar). In the USA, we get corn syrup Coke. Of course, this all happened after Mr Warhol said this.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How does the following passage make you feel ?
Does it make you feel comforted or outraged ?
" What 's great about this country is that America started the tradition where the richest consumers buy essentially the same things as the poorest .
You can be watching TV and see Coca-Cola , and you know that the President drinks Coke , Liz Taylor drinks Coke , and just think , you can drink Coke , too .
A Coke is a Coke and no amount of money can get you a better Coke than the one the bum on the corner is drinking .
All the Cokes are the same and all the Cokes are good .
Liz Taylor knows it , the President knows it , the bum knows it , and you know it .
" --Andy Warhol To be fair , it seems that everyone in the Americas ( North , Central , and South ) to the exclusion of those living in the United States of America get to drink the good Coke ( made with real sugar ) .
In the USA , we get corn syrup Coke .
Of course , this all happened after Mr Warhol said this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How does the following passage make you feel?
Does it make you feel comforted or outraged?
"What's great about this country is that America started the tradition where the richest consumers buy essentially the same things as the poorest.
You can be watching TV and see Coca-Cola, and you know that the President drinks Coke, Liz Taylor drinks Coke, and just think, you can drink Coke, too.
A Coke is a Coke and no amount of money can get you a better Coke than the one the bum on the corner is drinking.
All the Cokes are the same and all the Cokes are good.
Liz Taylor knows it, the President knows it, the bum knows it, and you know it.
"
--Andy Warhol 

To be fair, it seems that everyone in the Americas (North, Central, and South) to the exclusion of those living in the United States of America get to drink the good Coke (made with real sugar).
In the USA, we get corn syrup Coke.
Of course, this all happened after Mr Warhol said this.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260180</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260576</id>
	<title>You're just being petty</title>
	<author>Zilch</author>
	<datestamp>1259500920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...get over it.  It's the same in any industry.  If you work in hospitality, you could be a bellhop, a cleaner or a hotel manager.  The guy who comes to fix your laptop probably thinks you're an arse too.  (I tend to think that about anyone who spells Windows with a 'z'). Also you probably have an over inflated opinion of your job (most people do).  For example, all the 'IT Architects' I work with just see 'Code Monkey' jobs as roles to be shipped off to India.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...get over it .
It 's the same in any industry .
If you work in hospitality , you could be a bellhop , a cleaner or a hotel manager .
The guy who comes to fix your laptop probably thinks you 're an arse too .
( I tend to think that about anyone who spells Windows with a 'z ' ) .
Also you probably have an over inflated opinion of your job ( most people do ) .
For example , all the 'IT Architects ' I work with just see 'Code Monkey ' jobs as roles to be shipped off to India .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...get over it.
It's the same in any industry.
If you work in hospitality, you could be a bellhop, a cleaner or a hotel manager.
The guy who comes to fix your laptop probably thinks you're an arse too.
(I tend to think that about anyone who spells Windows with a 'z').
Also you probably have an over inflated opinion of your job (most people do).
For example, all the 'IT Architects' I work with just see 'Code Monkey' jobs as roles to be shipped off to India.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261138</id>
	<title>IT is NOT Engineering in ANy Way, Shape, or Form</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259507820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just for the record... Software development and desktop support are NOT Engineering any any stretch of the word, and should never be referred to as such. Data center operations MAY involve engineering, if you focus on the hardware side.</p><p>Software related stuff is simply not Engineering or tech. I wouldn't even refer to them as IT because the "T" stands for "technology", but I can live with people using the acronym in this way (there are several everyday uses of language that are imprecise).</p><p>PROOF:</p><p>Engineering = Math+Physics+Chemistry+Other Actual Sciences+Good Sense</p><p>Software Professions = Programming+Protocols+Commands-Good Sense-Actual Sciences of Any Kind</p><p>I rest my case.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just for the record... Software development and desktop support are NOT Engineering any any stretch of the word , and should never be referred to as such .
Data center operations MAY involve engineering , if you focus on the hardware side.Software related stuff is simply not Engineering or tech .
I would n't even refer to them as IT because the " T " stands for " technology " , but I can live with people using the acronym in this way ( there are several everyday uses of language that are imprecise ) .PROOF : Engineering = Math + Physics + Chemistry + Other Actual Sciences + Good SenseSoftware Professions = Programming + Protocols + Commands-Good Sense-Actual Sciences of Any KindI rest my case .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just for the record... Software development and desktop support are NOT Engineering any any stretch of the word, and should never be referred to as such.
Data center operations MAY involve engineering, if you focus on the hardware side.Software related stuff is simply not Engineering or tech.
I wouldn't even refer to them as IT because the "T" stands for "technology", but I can live with people using the acronym in this way (there are several everyday uses of language that are imprecise).PROOF:Engineering = Math+Physics+Chemistry+Other Actual Sciences+Good SenseSoftware Professions = Programming+Protocols+Commands-Good Sense-Actual Sciences of Any KindI rest my case.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263010</id>
	<title>I get it</title>
	<author>kshkval</author>
	<datestamp>1259524680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You think being called an IT guy is bad, try being called a "male nurse." Which is what I am, but I mostly support the electronic medical record software for a hospital. There's just a way that people say it, "oh, you're a male nurse?". Every time I hear the "male nurse" remark, it's like reliving the meet the parents dinner scene in "Meet the Fockers." "You work for IT" is not as bad, but again, you are being lumped into a vague non-white non-blue collar job category in some weird way. I have friends who are certified, trained electricians who work for the Engineering Department and people say to them, "you work for Engineering?" as if being a trained guy who works in a dangerous environment shouldn't command a level of respect. All of this may have more to do with the lingering bias in the health care and hospital world towards physicians, actually. I liked Avatar8's remark, that anyone who says you work for IT simply means to say they don't have a clue about what you do or how to use computers (I think that's what he meant).</htmltext>
<tokenext>You think being called an IT guy is bad , try being called a " male nurse .
" Which is what I am , but I mostly support the electronic medical record software for a hospital .
There 's just a way that people say it , " oh , you 're a male nurse ? " .
Every time I hear the " male nurse " remark , it 's like reliving the meet the parents dinner scene in " Meet the Fockers .
" " You work for IT " is not as bad , but again , you are being lumped into a vague non-white non-blue collar job category in some weird way .
I have friends who are certified , trained electricians who work for the Engineering Department and people say to them , " you work for Engineering ?
" as if being a trained guy who works in a dangerous environment should n't command a level of respect .
All of this may have more to do with the lingering bias in the health care and hospital world towards physicians , actually .
I liked Avatar8 's remark , that anyone who says you work for IT simply means to say they do n't have a clue about what you do or how to use computers ( I think that 's what he meant ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You think being called an IT guy is bad, try being called a "male nurse.
" Which is what I am, but I mostly support the electronic medical record software for a hospital.
There's just a way that people say it, "oh, you're a male nurse?".
Every time I hear the "male nurse" remark, it's like reliving the meet the parents dinner scene in "Meet the Fockers.
" "You work for IT" is not as bad, but again, you are being lumped into a vague non-white non-blue collar job category in some weird way.
I have friends who are certified, trained electricians who work for the Engineering Department and people say to them, "you work for Engineering?
" as if being a trained guy who works in a dangerous environment shouldn't command a level of respect.
All of this may have more to do with the lingering bias in the health care and hospital world towards physicians, actually.
I liked Avatar8's remark, that anyone who says you work for IT simply means to say they don't have a clue about what you do or how to use computers (I think that's what he meant).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264608</id>
	<title>My work department is called engineering, not IT</title>
	<author>talexb</author>
	<datestamp>1259497020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And the boss of the bosses is called the Head of Engineering (Operations and Development), but perhaps the company I work for is unusual.</p><p>We do have an IT team: it consists of about five people who take care of managing the hardware, the development containers, the networking, speccing hardware, and doing capacity planning. Operations is about a dozen people who take care of managing the application software that we use to provide forex trading. Then there are several dozen developers just doing development for the web site and the trading platform.</p><p>I find the term IT a little out-dated, personally. It makes me think of white shirts and ties, salesman from IBM and the hallowed machine room with the God-like mainframe.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And the boss of the bosses is called the Head of Engineering ( Operations and Development ) , but perhaps the company I work for is unusual.We do have an IT team : it consists of about five people who take care of managing the hardware , the development containers , the networking , speccing hardware , and doing capacity planning .
Operations is about a dozen people who take care of managing the application software that we use to provide forex trading .
Then there are several dozen developers just doing development for the web site and the trading platform.I find the term IT a little out-dated , personally .
It makes me think of white shirts and ties , salesman from IBM and the hallowed machine room with the God-like mainframe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And the boss of the bosses is called the Head of Engineering (Operations and Development), but perhaps the company I work for is unusual.We do have an IT team: it consists of about five people who take care of managing the hardware, the development containers, the networking, speccing hardware, and doing capacity planning.
Operations is about a dozen people who take care of managing the application software that we use to provide forex trading.
Then there are several dozen developers just doing development for the web site and the trading platform.I find the term IT a little out-dated, personally.
It makes me think of white shirts and ties, salesman from IBM and the hallowed machine room with the God-like mainframe.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263306</id>
	<title>Re:IT is NOT Engineering in ANy Way, Shape, or For</title>
	<author>agnosticnixie</author>
	<datestamp>1259527680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That was clearly written by an engineer. The Engineering line is missing +Cargo Cult and Software professions require math and physics, the first of which is more philosophy than science.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That was clearly written by an engineer .
The Engineering line is missing + Cargo Cult and Software professions require math and physics , the first of which is more philosophy than science .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That was clearly written by an engineer.
The Engineering line is missing +Cargo Cult and Software professions require math and physics, the first of which is more philosophy than science.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261138</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263896</id>
	<title>you're a student!</title>
	<author>fantomas</author>
	<datestamp>1259490720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't worry about being labelled as an "IT guy" - most of the people in your workplace label you as "student" I should imagine with all that entails...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't worry about being labelled as an " IT guy " - most of the people in your workplace label you as " student " I should imagine with all that entails.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't worry about being labelled as an "IT guy" - most of the people in your workplace label you as "student" I should imagine with all that entails...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260338</id>
	<title>I am a sysadmin.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259497800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Now, I'm not the kind of sysadmin you're complaining about.  I'm the kind of sysadmin that manages fleets of thousands of computers.</p><p>I'm the kind of sysadmin that develops systems that automagically reinstalls systems via bootp/tftp etc.etc.</p><p>I'm the kind of sysadmins that allow technical people to run whatever they want on their desktops (as long as it's not abusive/disruptive software.  In which case I'll bring my two-by-four over to the luser in question and degrade him into non-technical user.  Meaning that he'll no longer get to install whatever-the-fsck he wants.</p><p>I'm the kind of sysadmin that says "yuck, this piece of shit software is slow", whereupon I strace it, fetches the source-code and figures out that "Oh my! Oh my!  That shit is O(n^2) when it's easy to make it O(1).".  Whereupon I submit a patch to the developer saying "Yo, please patch".  I'm the kind of sysadmin that points out that "Yeah, I realize you think that hardware is inexpensive, but doing tens of thousands of stat() calls against the same files on a netapp per second instead of caching the result is rather stupid".</p><p>Software Engineers that consider their local sysadmin a resource rather than an annoyance usually enjoy having me around.</p><p>Software Engineers that consider their local sysadmin an annoyance that wasn't good enough to become a software engineer usually realizes they were wrong.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Now , I 'm not the kind of sysadmin you 're complaining about .
I 'm the kind of sysadmin that manages fleets of thousands of computers.I 'm the kind of sysadmin that develops systems that automagically reinstalls systems via bootp/tftp etc.etc.I 'm the kind of sysadmins that allow technical people to run whatever they want on their desktops ( as long as it 's not abusive/disruptive software .
In which case I 'll bring my two-by-four over to the luser in question and degrade him into non-technical user .
Meaning that he 'll no longer get to install whatever-the-fsck he wants.I 'm the kind of sysadmin that says " yuck , this piece of shit software is slow " , whereupon I strace it , fetches the source-code and figures out that " Oh my !
Oh my !
That shit is O ( n ^ 2 ) when it 's easy to make it O ( 1 ) . " .
Whereupon I submit a patch to the developer saying " Yo , please patch " .
I 'm the kind of sysadmin that points out that " Yeah , I realize you think that hardware is inexpensive , but doing tens of thousands of stat ( ) calls against the same files on a netapp per second instead of caching the result is rather stupid " .Software Engineers that consider their local sysadmin a resource rather than an annoyance usually enjoy having me around.Software Engineers that consider their local sysadmin an annoyance that was n't good enough to become a software engineer usually realizes they were wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now, I'm not the kind of sysadmin you're complaining about.
I'm the kind of sysadmin that manages fleets of thousands of computers.I'm the kind of sysadmin that develops systems that automagically reinstalls systems via bootp/tftp etc.etc.I'm the kind of sysadmins that allow technical people to run whatever they want on their desktops (as long as it's not abusive/disruptive software.
In which case I'll bring my two-by-four over to the luser in question and degrade him into non-technical user.
Meaning that he'll no longer get to install whatever-the-fsck he wants.I'm the kind of sysadmin that says "yuck, this piece of shit software is slow", whereupon I strace it, fetches the source-code and figures out that "Oh my!
Oh my!
That shit is O(n^2) when it's easy to make it O(1).".
Whereupon I submit a patch to the developer saying "Yo, please patch".
I'm the kind of sysadmin that points out that "Yeah, I realize you think that hardware is inexpensive, but doing tens of thousands of stat() calls against the same files on a netapp per second instead of caching the result is rather stupid".Software Engineers that consider their local sysadmin a resource rather than an annoyance usually enjoy having me around.Software Engineers that consider their local sysadmin an annoyance that wasn't good enough to become a software engineer usually realizes they were wrong.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261078</id>
	<title>Sounds good to me</title>
	<author>marxz</author>
	<datestamp>1259507160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>lets call them "programmer guys" (or girls) or something like that just  so that we desktop &amp; server support people can get on with the job of trying to support/jury rig solutions/bug find etc their dodgy software so the users can... well... like use it, all with out about having to be lumped in to the same basket as the bug, glitch &amp; BSoD makers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>lets call them " programmer guys " ( or girls ) or something like that just so that we desktop &amp; server support people can get on with the job of trying to support/jury rig solutions/bug find etc their dodgy software so the users can... well... like use it , all with out about having to be lumped in to the same basket as the bug , glitch &amp; BSoD makers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>lets call them "programmer guys" (or girls) or something like that just  so that we desktop &amp; server support people can get on with the job of trying to support/jury rig solutions/bug find etc their dodgy software so the users can... well... like use it, all with out about having to be lumped in to the same basket as the bug, glitch &amp; BSoD makers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30265266</id>
	<title>If you care about your title</title>
	<author>taucross</author>
	<datestamp>1259504100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you care about your title, you're probably not being paid enough. Get the fancy title, then move on.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you care about your title , you 're probably not being paid enough .
Get the fancy title , then move on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you care about your title, you're probably not being paid enough.
Get the fancy title, then move on.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260286</id>
	<title>It could be worse</title>
	<author>atmurray</author>
	<datestamp>1259496720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Try doing a PhD concerned with the hardware implementation of pretty hardcore mathematics for wireless communications and have someone refer what you do to be "IT".

Without trying to sound like some form of zealot, the best thing I did was switch to a Mac. Not because it is a superior environment or anything, but because when someone has a Windows problem I feign ignorance and say "sorry, not sure, I don't use Windows these days".</htmltext>
<tokenext>Try doing a PhD concerned with the hardware implementation of pretty hardcore mathematics for wireless communications and have someone refer what you do to be " IT " .
Without trying to sound like some form of zealot , the best thing I did was switch to a Mac .
Not because it is a superior environment or anything , but because when someone has a Windows problem I feign ignorance and say " sorry , not sure , I do n't use Windows these days " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try doing a PhD concerned with the hardware implementation of pretty hardcore mathematics for wireless communications and have someone refer what you do to be "IT".
Without trying to sound like some form of zealot, the best thing I did was switch to a Mac.
Not because it is a superior environment or anything, but because when someone has a Windows problem I feign ignorance and say "sorry, not sure, I don't use Windows these days".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260180</id>
	<title>Self-important Douchebag</title>
	<author>DNS-and-BIND</author>
	<datestamp>1259495040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>"The phrase 'IT' is so overused, I'm not sure what it means any more. </i> <br>It means "information technology".  </p><p> <i>OK, maybe it's an ego thing, but I spent a lot of years in grad school, lots of years getting good at creating software, and lots of years getting good at creating technical products and I don't want the same label as the intern who fixes windoze.</i> <br>What's wrong with that?  Are you really so shallow as this?  (Don't answer)  I can understand wanting some sort of prestige, but not liking something because the proles get to have it too is one of the worst features of human nature, and it's something that used to get trained out of non-upper-class Americans.  Is it really that irritating to be in the same industry as the intern who fixes "Windoze"[sic]?  From urbandictionary.com: <b>douchebag</b> "An individual who has an over-inflated sense of self worth, compounded by a low level of intelligence, behaving ridiculously in front of colleagues with no sense of how moronic he appears."</p><p>How does the following passage make you feel?  Does it make you feel comforted or outraged?</p><p>"What's great about this country is that America started the tradition where the richest consumers buy essentially the same things as the poorest. You can be watching TV and see Coca-Cola, and you know that the President drinks Coke, Liz Taylor drinks Coke, and just think, you can drink Coke, too. A Coke is a Coke and no amount of money can get you a better Coke than the one the bum on the corner is drinking. All the Cokes are the same and all the Cokes are good. Liz Taylor knows it, the President knows it, the bum knows it, and you know it."<br>--Andy Warhol</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" The phrase 'IT ' is so overused , I 'm not sure what it means any more .
It means " information technology " .
OK , maybe it 's an ego thing , but I spent a lot of years in grad school , lots of years getting good at creating software , and lots of years getting good at creating technical products and I do n't want the same label as the intern who fixes windoze .
What 's wrong with that ?
Are you really so shallow as this ?
( Do n't answer ) I can understand wanting some sort of prestige , but not liking something because the proles get to have it too is one of the worst features of human nature , and it 's something that used to get trained out of non-upper-class Americans .
Is it really that irritating to be in the same industry as the intern who fixes " Windoze " [ sic ] ?
From urbandictionary.com : douchebag " An individual who has an over-inflated sense of self worth , compounded by a low level of intelligence , behaving ridiculously in front of colleagues with no sense of how moronic he appears .
" How does the following passage make you feel ?
Does it make you feel comforted or outraged ?
" What 's great about this country is that America started the tradition where the richest consumers buy essentially the same things as the poorest .
You can be watching TV and see Coca-Cola , and you know that the President drinks Coke , Liz Taylor drinks Coke , and just think , you can drink Coke , too .
A Coke is a Coke and no amount of money can get you a better Coke than the one the bum on the corner is drinking .
All the Cokes are the same and all the Cokes are good .
Liz Taylor knows it , the President knows it , the bum knows it , and you know it .
" --Andy Warhol</tokentext>
<sentencetext> "The phrase 'IT' is so overused, I'm not sure what it means any more.
It means "information technology".
OK, maybe it's an ego thing, but I spent a lot of years in grad school, lots of years getting good at creating software, and lots of years getting good at creating technical products and I don't want the same label as the intern who fixes windoze.
What's wrong with that?
Are you really so shallow as this?
(Don't answer)  I can understand wanting some sort of prestige, but not liking something because the proles get to have it too is one of the worst features of human nature, and it's something that used to get trained out of non-upper-class Americans.
Is it really that irritating to be in the same industry as the intern who fixes "Windoze"[sic]?
From urbandictionary.com: douchebag "An individual who has an over-inflated sense of self worth, compounded by a low level of intelligence, behaving ridiculously in front of colleagues with no sense of how moronic he appears.
"How does the following passage make you feel?
Does it make you feel comforted or outraged?
"What's great about this country is that America started the tradition where the richest consumers buy essentially the same things as the poorest.
You can be watching TV and see Coca-Cola, and you know that the President drinks Coke, Liz Taylor drinks Coke, and just think, you can drink Coke, too.
A Coke is a Coke and no amount of money can get you a better Coke than the one the bum on the corner is drinking.
All the Cokes are the same and all the Cokes are good.
Liz Taylor knows it, the President knows it, the bum knows it, and you know it.
"--Andy Warhol</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261104</id>
	<title>Re:I'm not an "IT guy".</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259507460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're not a 'software developer'. You're a programmer. In my experience, 'software developer' is a term used by programmers to make what they do seem more specialized than it really is.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're not a 'software developer' .
You 're a programmer .
In my experience , 'software developer ' is a term used by programmers to make what they do seem more specialized than it really is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're not a 'software developer'.
You're a programmer.
In my experience, 'software developer' is a term used by programmers to make what they do seem more specialized than it really is.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260056</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30265032</id>
	<title>Geez</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259501220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sorry about your ego and your penis.  If you're worried about a title you should have gone to Law, Medical, or Business school.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry about your ego and your penis .
If you 're worried about a title you should have gone to Law , Medical , or Business school .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry about your ego and your penis.
If you're worried about a title you should have gone to Law, Medical, or Business school.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262150</id>
	<title>I do enjoy my unofficial title...</title>
	<author>achbed</author>
	<datestamp>1259517420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...especially as my official title and job description is what I do only 10\% of the time.  But being "Genius in Residence" has it's perks<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</htmltext>
<tokenext>...especially as my official title and job description is what I do only 10 \ % of the time .
But being " Genius in Residence " has it 's perks : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...especially as my official title and job description is what I do only 10\% of the time.
But being "Genius in Residence" has it's perks :)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261952</id>
	<title>Petty.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259515740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Tech Department's no better a name, and software development isn't even remotely related to engineering IMO.</p><p>BTW 'IT' is an acronym, not a phrase.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Tech Department 's no better a name , and software development is n't even remotely related to engineering IMO.BTW 'IT ' is an acronym , not a phrase .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tech Department's no better a name, and software development isn't even remotely related to engineering IMO.BTW 'IT' is an acronym, not a phrase.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260098</id>
	<title>Quality Control</title>
	<author>lewko</author>
	<datestamp>1259493720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Just call them the 'Tech Department' or the 'Engineering Deptartment?'"</i> [sic]</p><p>The spelling Deptartment just called. They need more budget.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just call them the 'Tech Department ' or the 'Engineering Deptartment ?
' " [ sic ] The spelling Deptartment just called .
They need more budget .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just call them the 'Tech Department' or the 'Engineering Deptartment?
'" [sic]The spelling Deptartment just called.
They need more budget.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260680</id>
	<title>Do you want some cheese to go with that whine?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259502180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think you're just being petty.  Do I like getting lumped into the same industry is a help desk?  No.</p><p>But the facts are that our industry is called Information Technology, the title (and you) say what you happen to do.</p><p>A previous poster went down a path that I thought was interesting, but the poster stopped a little short in my opinion.</p><p>In the medical field, you have orderlies, nurses, pharmacists, doctors, administrators, surgeons,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..etc.  So you may work in the medical field, but your title (and you) give people an impression of what you do.</p><p>Look at it this way, at least your not an chemical engineer at Solid Waste Disposal Engineering Services company.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you 're just being petty .
Do I like getting lumped into the same industry is a help desk ?
No.But the facts are that our industry is called Information Technology , the title ( and you ) say what you happen to do.A previous poster went down a path that I thought was interesting , but the poster stopped a little short in my opinion.In the medical field , you have orderlies , nurses , pharmacists , doctors , administrators , surgeons , ..etc .
So you may work in the medical field , but your title ( and you ) give people an impression of what you do.Look at it this way , at least your not an chemical engineer at Solid Waste Disposal Engineering Services company .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you're just being petty.
Do I like getting lumped into the same industry is a help desk?
No.But the facts are that our industry is called Information Technology, the title (and you) say what you happen to do.A previous poster went down a path that I thought was interesting, but the poster stopped a little short in my opinion.In the medical field, you have orderlies, nurses, pharmacists, doctors, administrators, surgeons, ..etc.
So you may work in the medical field, but your title (and you) give people an impression of what you do.Look at it this way, at least your not an chemical engineer at Solid Waste Disposal Engineering Services company.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260550</id>
	<title>I deal with computer I program but I am not in IT</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259500680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I work for a copany making power electronics I program the DSP's controlling the system. You can call me software engineer but in no way you can call me IT guy I am not involved in information in any way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I work for a copany making power electronics I program the DSP 's controlling the system .
You can call me software engineer but in no way you can call me IT guy I am not involved in information in any way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work for a copany making power electronics I program the DSP's controlling the system.
You can call me software engineer but in no way you can call me IT guy I am not involved in information in any way.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263666</id>
	<title>There are worse things...</title>
	<author>emgeemg</author>
	<datestamp>1259488380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I remember about 10 years ago I was doing a co-op stint at a division of a large company doing a mix of programming and system administration work.  At some point, I found myself in the company of the head of the division after having just solved some dinky little problem with his PC.  There was another guy in the room at the time and after I worked my magic the division head looks over to the other guy in the room, points to me, and says "Our vo-tech guys really do a great job".</htmltext>
<tokenext>I remember about 10 years ago I was doing a co-op stint at a division of a large company doing a mix of programming and system administration work .
At some point , I found myself in the company of the head of the division after having just solved some dinky little problem with his PC .
There was another guy in the room at the time and after I worked my magic the division head looks over to the other guy in the room , points to me , and says " Our vo-tech guys really do a great job " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I remember about 10 years ago I was doing a co-op stint at a division of a large company doing a mix of programming and system administration work.
At some point, I found myself in the company of the head of the division after having just solved some dinky little problem with his PC.
There was another guy in the room at the time and after I worked my magic the division head looks over to the other guy in the room, points to me, and says "Our vo-tech guys really do a great job".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261714</id>
	<title>Re:IT Guy ?</title>
	<author>SpaghettiPattern</author>
	<datestamp>1259513700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well, lady IT-guy, I see 8 replies on your post and, without reading them, I suspect 5 are asking for a date, 2 come with irrelevant technicalities and 1 is the newbie doing a first post.<br> <br>

Don't you see what IT does to us! Run away while you can!<br> <br>

Besides, we collectively are plainly ugly, boringly eccentric, have bad hygiene and poor health. Our perception of romance is the girl in the other room repeatedly declaring to us that she'd rather date a dog while we remain hopeful.<br> <br>

Yours,<br>
An IT-Guy</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , lady IT-guy , I see 8 replies on your post and , without reading them , I suspect 5 are asking for a date , 2 come with irrelevant technicalities and 1 is the newbie doing a first post .
Do n't you see what IT does to us !
Run away while you can !
Besides , we collectively are plainly ugly , boringly eccentric , have bad hygiene and poor health .
Our perception of romance is the girl in the other room repeatedly declaring to us that she 'd rather date a dog while we remain hopeful .
Yours , An IT-Guy</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, lady IT-guy, I see 8 replies on your post and, without reading them, I suspect 5 are asking for a date, 2 come with irrelevant technicalities and 1 is the newbie doing a first post.
Don't you see what IT does to us!
Run away while you can!
Besides, we collectively are plainly ugly, boringly eccentric, have bad hygiene and poor health.
Our perception of romance is the girl in the other room repeatedly declaring to us that she'd rather date a dog while we remain hopeful.
Yours,
An IT-Guy</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260308</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261802</id>
	<title>Yes, petty, forget it, it changes over time.</title>
	<author>herojig</author>
	<datestamp>1259514420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>To the op, yes that's being petty, you should forget it and go program something (or whatever makes you happy), and don't worry about what u are called, u will have many names in this lifetime.</htmltext>
<tokenext>To the op , yes that 's being petty , you should forget it and go program something ( or whatever makes you happy ) , and do n't worry about what u are called , u will have many names in this lifetime .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To the op, yes that's being petty, you should forget it and go program something (or whatever makes you happy), and don't worry about what u are called, u will have many names in this lifetime.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260158</id>
	<title>I am a software engineer</title>
	<author>MichaelSmith</author>
	<datestamp>1259494620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>IT guys are the scumbags who put desktop remote control software on my suse workstation. They are the reason I keep rootkits (ie, system rescue CDs) in my desk draw, and why most of the guys I directly work with run gentoo.</p><p>These are the people who solemnly told me they would improve my WAN latency issue by compressing the link. When  I said that won't work they said they could always put two compressors in series.</p><p>When they replaced my Dell desktop with an equally crappy ASUS or something they replaced the Dell branded logitech keyboard and mouse with an ASUS branded logitech keyboard and mouse on the grounds that using the wrong type of peripheral might cause "incompatibilities".</p><p>Since they stopped supporting POP and SMTP I now have to use outlook inside windows inside vmware, except there used to be outlook web access which stopped working last weekend so I logged a call with the help<b>less</b> desk and they got the whole story (running firefox on suse, etc) then they had to get me to give them the version of IE I had there (stuffed if I know why). So they didn't fix it (Exchange server cant authenticate me for some reason) and escalated it a few times then the second or third level guy called me back and asked if I had thought of restarting firefox. When I said yes he asked if I had restarted my system (said so, I had an import or ten on the go at the time). This after I had given them the error message which came back from exchange.</p><p>I wish I could sack these idiots. In theory they work for my organisation you know, but they seem to have their hooks in us.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>IT guys are the scumbags who put desktop remote control software on my suse workstation .
They are the reason I keep rootkits ( ie , system rescue CDs ) in my desk draw , and why most of the guys I directly work with run gentoo.These are the people who solemnly told me they would improve my WAN latency issue by compressing the link .
When I said that wo n't work they said they could always put two compressors in series.When they replaced my Dell desktop with an equally crappy ASUS or something they replaced the Dell branded logitech keyboard and mouse with an ASUS branded logitech keyboard and mouse on the grounds that using the wrong type of peripheral might cause " incompatibilities " .Since they stopped supporting POP and SMTP I now have to use outlook inside windows inside vmware , except there used to be outlook web access which stopped working last weekend so I logged a call with the helpless desk and they got the whole story ( running firefox on suse , etc ) then they had to get me to give them the version of IE I had there ( stuffed if I know why ) .
So they did n't fix it ( Exchange server cant authenticate me for some reason ) and escalated it a few times then the second or third level guy called me back and asked if I had thought of restarting firefox .
When I said yes he asked if I had restarted my system ( said so , I had an import or ten on the go at the time ) .
This after I had given them the error message which came back from exchange.I wish I could sack these idiots .
In theory they work for my organisation you know , but they seem to have their hooks in us .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IT guys are the scumbags who put desktop remote control software on my suse workstation.
They are the reason I keep rootkits (ie, system rescue CDs) in my desk draw, and why most of the guys I directly work with run gentoo.These are the people who solemnly told me they would improve my WAN latency issue by compressing the link.
When  I said that won't work they said they could always put two compressors in series.When they replaced my Dell desktop with an equally crappy ASUS or something they replaced the Dell branded logitech keyboard and mouse with an ASUS branded logitech keyboard and mouse on the grounds that using the wrong type of peripheral might cause "incompatibilities".Since they stopped supporting POP and SMTP I now have to use outlook inside windows inside vmware, except there used to be outlook web access which stopped working last weekend so I logged a call with the helpless desk and they got the whole story (running firefox on suse, etc) then they had to get me to give them the version of IE I had there (stuffed if I know why).
So they didn't fix it (Exchange server cant authenticate me for some reason) and escalated it a few times then the second or third level guy called me back and asked if I had thought of restarting firefox.
When I said yes he asked if I had restarted my system (said so, I had an import or ten on the go at the time).
This after I had given them the error message which came back from exchange.I wish I could sack these idiots.
In theory they work for my organisation you know, but they seem to have their hooks in us.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260800</id>
	<title>Re:Information Technology (IT)</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259503860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, you'd call a brain *surgeon* Mister, not Doctor.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , you 'd call a brain * surgeon * Mister , not Doctor .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, you'd call a brain *surgeon* Mister, not Doctor.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260102</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262876</id>
	<title>Re:Information Technology (IT)</title>
	<author>Frankenshteen</author>
	<datestamp>1259523420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Exactly; information technology - whatever your team is building must be information related. Who cares what they call the department.

Attract your talent by paying competitively, providing excellent benefits, good development hardware, and let them script their own specific title. So long as the content doesn't offend clients, your business, or others; i've seen guys with "may contain peanuts" as their official role. Dude codes like no other...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly ; information technology - whatever your team is building must be information related .
Who cares what they call the department .
Attract your talent by paying competitively , providing excellent benefits , good development hardware , and let them script their own specific title .
So long as the content does n't offend clients , your business , or others ; i 've seen guys with " may contain peanuts " as their official role .
Dude codes like no other.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly; information technology - whatever your team is building must be information related.
Who cares what they call the department.
Attract your talent by paying competitively, providing excellent benefits, good development hardware, and let them script their own specific title.
So long as the content doesn't offend clients, your business, or others; i've seen guys with "may contain peanuts" as their official role.
Dude codes like no other...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260102</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260868</id>
	<title>Re:I am a software engineer</title>
	<author>ls671</author>
	<datestamp>1259504760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; then the second or third level guy</p><p>Bah, I have been escalated to the 7th level once while dealing with IBM, seriously !<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; then the second or third level guyBah , I have been escalated to the 7th level once while dealing with IBM , seriously !
; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; then the second or third level guyBah, I have been escalated to the 7th level once while dealing with IBM, seriously !
;-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260892</id>
	<title>No, not really...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259505060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I run into a lot of people that ask what I do, and when I say "I'm in IT" they often ask "IT? What's that?"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I run into a lot of people that ask what I do , and when I say " I 'm in IT " they often ask " IT ?
What 's that ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I run into a lot of people that ask what I do, and when I say "I'm in IT" they often ask "IT?
What's that?
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30268254</id>
	<title>Better than a Mis Manager</title>
	<author>Bob the Yank</author>
	<datestamp>1259577660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As bad as "IT Tech" is, it's not as bad as "Management Information Services Manager" or "MIS Manager", which I had to wear for a couple of years.  I wasn't that great of a manager but I didn't mis-manage anything.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As bad as " IT Tech " is , it 's not as bad as " Management Information Services Manager " or " MIS Manager " , which I had to wear for a couple of years .
I was n't that great of a manager but I did n't mis-manage anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As bad as "IT Tech" is, it's not as bad as "Management Information Services Manager" or "MIS Manager", which I had to wear for a couple of years.
I wasn't that great of a manager but I didn't mis-manage anything.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260984</id>
	<title>In this economy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259506020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In this economy, you could call them "rape dummies" and they better freaking like it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In this economy , you could call them " rape dummies " and they better freaking like it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In this economy, you could call them "rape dummies" and they better freaking like it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30269914</id>
	<title>hope this never happens to me</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259596500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I hope so. I am a girl</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I hope so .
I am a girl</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hope so.
I am a girl</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260174</id>
	<title>More than IT</title>
	<author>spudnic</author>
	<datestamp>1259494920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't like people assuming that since my group is part of IS that we are "just" technology people.  Yeah, we are programmers, but we are far more than that.  We have to truly understand the business needs of our organization, and we do.  We are partners with the business units, not just a bunch of geeks turning out code that we hope does what is needed, or coding to specs that may or may not be the best solution that some accountant thought up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't like people assuming that since my group is part of IS that we are " just " technology people .
Yeah , we are programmers , but we are far more than that .
We have to truly understand the business needs of our organization , and we do .
We are partners with the business units , not just a bunch of geeks turning out code that we hope does what is needed , or coding to specs that may or may not be the best solution that some accountant thought up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't like people assuming that since my group is part of IS that we are "just" technology people.
Yeah, we are programmers, but we are far more than that.
We have to truly understand the business needs of our organization, and we do.
We are partners with the business units, not just a bunch of geeks turning out code that we hope does what is needed, or coding to specs that may or may not be the best solution that some accountant thought up.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264472</id>
	<title>No. We are I.T. people. and its good.</title>
	<author>unity100</author>
	<datestamp>1259495820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>get used to it.</p><p>you and me can know the difference in between a web developer and an offline software developer, and then a network administratior, and then a tech support guy, and then a sysadmin, but they dont.</p><p>i.t. is still a magical world that is rather incomprehensible and unimaginable to outsiders, or people who are not affiliated with tech. and it will, probably stay as such. our situation is no different than engineers at the start of 19th century.</p><p>there are few from outside with the required knack to be able to understand a bit of i.t., if not get familiar with it entirely. they happen to be generally smart people. of ages old and young. doesnt matter. but the rest, i.t. always be a place of magic, where things happen, somehow, and those who work in that field will appear as magicians to them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>get used to it.you and me can know the difference in between a web developer and an offline software developer , and then a network administratior , and then a tech support guy , and then a sysadmin , but they dont.i.t .
is still a magical world that is rather incomprehensible and unimaginable to outsiders , or people who are not affiliated with tech .
and it will , probably stay as such .
our situation is no different than engineers at the start of 19th century.there are few from outside with the required knack to be able to understand a bit of i.t. , if not get familiar with it entirely .
they happen to be generally smart people .
of ages old and young .
doesnt matter .
but the rest , i.t .
always be a place of magic , where things happen , somehow , and those who work in that field will appear as magicians to them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>get used to it.you and me can know the difference in between a web developer and an offline software developer, and then a network administratior, and then a tech support guy, and then a sysadmin, but they dont.i.t.
is still a magical world that is rather incomprehensible and unimaginable to outsiders, or people who are not affiliated with tech.
and it will, probably stay as such.
our situation is no different than engineers at the start of 19th century.there are few from outside with the required knack to be able to understand a bit of i.t., if not get familiar with it entirely.
they happen to be generally smart people.
of ages old and young.
doesnt matter.
but the rest, i.t.
always be a place of magic, where things happen, somehow, and those who work in that field will appear as magicians to them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260132</id>
	<title>Title or department?</title>
	<author>mhelander</author>
	<datestamp>1259494380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What's at stake? What your developers get to put on their business cards? If so, are you worried about their titles or what department they will be sorting under?</p><p>What would be the problem with having the title Software Developer, or even Software Engineer (say, if that's what someone is) and sort under the IT department?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What 's at stake ?
What your developers get to put on their business cards ?
If so , are you worried about their titles or what department they will be sorting under ? What would be the problem with having the title Software Developer , or even Software Engineer ( say , if that 's what someone is ) and sort under the IT department ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What's at stake?
What your developers get to put on their business cards?
If so, are you worried about their titles or what department they will be sorting under?What would be the problem with having the title Software Developer, or even Software Engineer (say, if that's what someone is) and sort under the IT department?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264430</id>
	<title>Re:I don't work in IT, but....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259495460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As an anonymous coward I must admit I was an IT major in college (Management Information Systems, but same difference).</p><p>To answer your questions, at 11 I enjoyed simple HTML (although I would not count it as a programming language) and some PERL.  As an older teen, PHP was pretty great.  In college, it was a MS shop so a lot of C# and ASP.NET with C#.  In my job, just T-SQL all day and ASP.NET every now and again.  In my hobby of amateur robotics, PBASIC and C.</p><p>My favorite Linux is Ubuntu now.  But when I was in high school I did ruin my family computer by installing a very young Mandrake.  Also, through my early college years I used a distro called ELX Linux that I am pretty sure no one uses anymore.  Towards the end of my college years I used Red Hat (hacked up into Oracle Enterprise Linux) so I had a better test environment for my Oracle DB in Advanced DBA class.</p><p>You are correct in that the 'IT Major' is loaded with CS dropouts.  However, once you realize that everyone in the real world just uses Quicksort or some other built-in optimized implementation it makes all those years of CS seem meaningless.</p><p>Idiots exist in every major.  Failed Accounting majors go to Finance.  Medical school failures go for their PhD in Pharmacy.  However, in each major for the failures, there are always bright and talented people who went into the major because they love it.</p><p>I don't mind being called 'IT' because those IT fixit types know WAY more than I do about hardware and networking.  Whenever I need access to a network resource or need help troubleshooting something outside of my area of expertise, they are the guys I call on.  They know as much about their area of expertise as I know about mine and I do not expect them to program a microcontroller anymore than they expect me to administer an Exchange server.</p><p>One more point I will leave you with.  In college, I wanted some cheap hardware for tinkering with.  I found a guy on craigslist who's wife was making him sell all of his junk hardware and pounced on it.  He told me he was a CS major about to graduate from the same university I was attending.  Being an avid Linux user at the time I asked him which distro he preferred.  He replied, "I have heard of Red Hat, but have never used Linux."</p><p>Food for thought.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As an anonymous coward I must admit I was an IT major in college ( Management Information Systems , but same difference ) .To answer your questions , at 11 I enjoyed simple HTML ( although I would not count it as a programming language ) and some PERL .
As an older teen , PHP was pretty great .
In college , it was a MS shop so a lot of C # and ASP.NET with C # .
In my job , just T-SQL all day and ASP.NET every now and again .
In my hobby of amateur robotics , PBASIC and C.My favorite Linux is Ubuntu now .
But when I was in high school I did ruin my family computer by installing a very young Mandrake .
Also , through my early college years I used a distro called ELX Linux that I am pretty sure no one uses anymore .
Towards the end of my college years I used Red Hat ( hacked up into Oracle Enterprise Linux ) so I had a better test environment for my Oracle DB in Advanced DBA class.You are correct in that the 'IT Major ' is loaded with CS dropouts .
However , once you realize that everyone in the real world just uses Quicksort or some other built-in optimized implementation it makes all those years of CS seem meaningless.Idiots exist in every major .
Failed Accounting majors go to Finance .
Medical school failures go for their PhD in Pharmacy .
However , in each major for the failures , there are always bright and talented people who went into the major because they love it.I do n't mind being called 'IT ' because those IT fixit types know WAY more than I do about hardware and networking .
Whenever I need access to a network resource or need help troubleshooting something outside of my area of expertise , they are the guys I call on .
They know as much about their area of expertise as I know about mine and I do not expect them to program a microcontroller anymore than they expect me to administer an Exchange server.One more point I will leave you with .
In college , I wanted some cheap hardware for tinkering with .
I found a guy on craigslist who 's wife was making him sell all of his junk hardware and pounced on it .
He told me he was a CS major about to graduate from the same university I was attending .
Being an avid Linux user at the time I asked him which distro he preferred .
He replied , " I have heard of Red Hat , but have never used Linux .
" Food for thought .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As an anonymous coward I must admit I was an IT major in college (Management Information Systems, but same difference).To answer your questions, at 11 I enjoyed simple HTML (although I would not count it as a programming language) and some PERL.
As an older teen, PHP was pretty great.
In college, it was a MS shop so a lot of C# and ASP.NET with C#.
In my job, just T-SQL all day and ASP.NET every now and again.
In my hobby of amateur robotics, PBASIC and C.My favorite Linux is Ubuntu now.
But when I was in high school I did ruin my family computer by installing a very young Mandrake.
Also, through my early college years I used a distro called ELX Linux that I am pretty sure no one uses anymore.
Towards the end of my college years I used Red Hat (hacked up into Oracle Enterprise Linux) so I had a better test environment for my Oracle DB in Advanced DBA class.You are correct in that the 'IT Major' is loaded with CS dropouts.
However, once you realize that everyone in the real world just uses Quicksort or some other built-in optimized implementation it makes all those years of CS seem meaningless.Idiots exist in every major.
Failed Accounting majors go to Finance.
Medical school failures go for their PhD in Pharmacy.
However, in each major for the failures, there are always bright and talented people who went into the major because they love it.I don't mind being called 'IT' because those IT fixit types know WAY more than I do about hardware and networking.
Whenever I need access to a network resource or need help troubleshooting something outside of my area of expertise, they are the guys I call on.
They know as much about their area of expertise as I know about mine and I do not expect them to program a microcontroller anymore than they expect me to administer an Exchange server.One more point I will leave you with.
In college, I wanted some cheap hardware for tinkering with.
I found a guy on craigslist who's wife was making him sell all of his junk hardware and pounced on it.
He told me he was a CS major about to graduate from the same university I was attending.
Being an avid Linux user at the time I asked him which distro he preferred.
He replied, "I have heard of Red Hat, but have never used Linux.
"Food for thought.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262850</id>
	<title>Title inflation</title>
	<author>olegalexandrov</author>
	<datestamp>1259523180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The pattern I've always seen is the opposite: job titles are exaggerated, to the point that test engineers are called "senior enterprise product developers", folks who run the tools are called "senior engineering directors", etc.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The pattern I 've always seen is the opposite : job titles are exaggerated , to the point that test engineers are called " senior enterprise product developers " , folks who run the tools are called " senior engineering directors " , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The pattern I've always seen is the opposite: job titles are exaggerated, to the point that test engineers are called "senior enterprise product developers", folks who run the tools are called "senior engineering directors", etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262264</id>
	<title>Working in a 3 person department</title>
	<author>lordsid</author>
	<datestamp>1259518440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I work in an IT department that consists of myself, a coworker and my boss/manager. We support all computers in two buildings, maintain the entire network and infrastructure, write all of the software, maintain the website, phone system, databases (5+), as well as our computer connection to a radio, and the computers in our taxis.

I can be writing Java one minute and be called to replace a keyboard the next. I don't mind and honestly it breaks up the monotony of writing code.

We do all of this with 3 people supporting 220+ employees. Needless to say we don't use Windows.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I work in an IT department that consists of myself , a coworker and my boss/manager .
We support all computers in two buildings , maintain the entire network and infrastructure , write all of the software , maintain the website , phone system , databases ( 5 + ) , as well as our computer connection to a radio , and the computers in our taxis .
I can be writing Java one minute and be called to replace a keyboard the next .
I do n't mind and honestly it breaks up the monotony of writing code .
We do all of this with 3 people supporting 220 + employees .
Needless to say we do n't use Windows .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work in an IT department that consists of myself, a coworker and my boss/manager.
We support all computers in two buildings, maintain the entire network and infrastructure, write all of the software, maintain the website, phone system, databases (5+), as well as our computer connection to a radio, and the computers in our taxis.
I can be writing Java one minute and be called to replace a keyboard the next.
I don't mind and honestly it breaks up the monotony of writing code.
We do all of this with 3 people supporting 220+ employees.
Needless to say we don't use Windows.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261012</id>
	<title>Pure pedantism</title>
	<author>DirtyFly</author>
	<datestamp>1259506380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Today's titles are a stupid form of pedantism, I'm the IT guy in my company and although I do pretty much everithing from coding to support lame users, I do not care about the title, used to work in other companies with 'softare achitects' that didnt have a clue of anything but m$ stuff, Database operators and designers who dindt have a clue about anything a DB is. You are what you are, and I do prefer to be underestimated than exposed asa fraud. Man I dont mind being calld an employee rather than a colaborator, a computer company is not a partner, neither is your communications company they are your supliers . It makes me mad to ear about 'a company mission isto give their clients the best<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... ' BULLSHIT a company is there to mke money ! if the client doesnt make money they'll dump it


Jorge</htmltext>
<tokenext>Today 's titles are a stupid form of pedantism , I 'm the IT guy in my company and although I do pretty much everithing from coding to support lame users , I do not care about the title , used to work in other companies with 'softare achitects ' that didnt have a clue of anything but m $ stuff , Database operators and designers who dindt have a clue about anything a DB is .
You are what you are , and I do prefer to be underestimated than exposed asa fraud .
Man I dont mind being calld an employee rather than a colaborator , a computer company is not a partner , neither is your communications company they are your supliers .
It makes me mad to ear about 'a company mission isto give their clients the best ... ' BULLSHIT a company is there to mke money !
if the client doesnt make money they 'll dump it Jorge</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Today's titles are a stupid form of pedantism, I'm the IT guy in my company and although I do pretty much everithing from coding to support lame users, I do not care about the title, used to work in other companies with 'softare achitects' that didnt have a clue of anything but m$ stuff, Database operators and designers who dindt have a clue about anything a DB is.
You are what you are, and I do prefer to be underestimated than exposed asa fraud.
Man I dont mind being calld an employee rather than a colaborator, a computer company is not a partner, neither is your communications company they are your supliers .
It makes me mad to ear about 'a company mission isto give their clients the best ... ' BULLSHIT a company is there to mke money !
if the client doesnt make money they'll dump it


Jorge</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30270306</id>
	<title>Filed under.....</title>
	<author>awest5</author>
	<datestamp>1259598780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This story has been filed under "IT".

Almost a shame, because it brings down the quality of all the other IT stories by association.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This story has been filed under " IT " .
Almost a shame , because it brings down the quality of all the other IT stories by association .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This story has been filed under "IT".
Almost a shame, because it brings down the quality of all the other IT stories by association.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264004</id>
	<title>I hate being called a goat humper.</title>
	<author>Noland150</author>
	<datestamp>1259491740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>A one-time event should not define a person's life.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A one-time event should not define a person 's life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A one-time event should not define a person's life.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260618</id>
	<title>Re:I am a software engineer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259501400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Firefox doesn't support NTLMv2 - and NTLMv1 support is precarious at best.<br>Somehow Linux distros' heads don't seem to think ActiveDirectory (and NTLMv2) is important for Linux growth<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-/<br>(TBH it seems the protocol isn't as secure as it was supposed to be and there's no documentation freely/openly available - if available at all)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Firefox does n't support NTLMv2 - and NTLMv1 support is precarious at best.Somehow Linux distros ' heads do n't seem to think ActiveDirectory ( and NTLMv2 ) is important for Linux growth : -/ ( TBH it seems the protocol is n't as secure as it was supposed to be and there 's no documentation freely/openly available - if available at all )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Firefox doesn't support NTLMv2 - and NTLMv1 support is precarious at best.Somehow Linux distros' heads don't seem to think ActiveDirectory (and NTLMv2) is important for Linux growth :-/(TBH it seems the protocol isn't as secure as it was supposed to be and there's no documentation freely/openly available - if available at all)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262644</id>
	<title>The High-Maintenance Geek</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1259521080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>I don't want the same label as the intern who fixes windoze. I'm looking at a tech management job at a content company that is trying to become a software company</i> </p><p>You can tell a lot about a man by the way he looks at the hired help. Elite-speak like "windoze" does not inspire confidence that I am hiring a grown-up.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't want the same label as the intern who fixes windoze .
I 'm looking at a tech management job at a content company that is trying to become a software company You can tell a lot about a man by the way he looks at the hired help .
Elite-speak like " windoze " does not inspire confidence that I am hiring a grown-up .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't want the same label as the intern who fixes windoze.
I'm looking at a tech management job at a content company that is trying to become a software company You can tell a lot about a man by the way he looks at the hired help.
Elite-speak like "windoze" does not inspire confidence that I am hiring a grown-up.
 </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30281378</id>
	<title>Re:Stop being pretentious and get over IT</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1259668740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I always preferred the term 'Router flunky'.</p><p>As someone who officially holds the title of 'Chief Technology Officer' in a tiny company, where it actually means nothing I can safely say the reason people are so obsessed with titles is because we've been trained to think that unless we are special in some way we are less important than others.  We've been trained to 'NEED' to be special.  We all (generally speaking) 'NEED' to be royalty.  We all want to have others look up to us.</p><p>Very few people are capable of realizing that we all have a place in the world, there are few people who contribute NOTHING AT ALL to the world.  I still care about my title, I still want to be special and think I'm better than others.  I know I'm not special.  I know I'm just another cog in the machine.  I realize that even though logically I am not really special, I still think I am and I will continue to look down on others I don't think are as special as myself.</p><p>Thats one of the sad things about being human, I realize I'm full of myself but that doesn't actually stop me from being full of myself.  Logic does not always win out, even when you realize it.</p><p>Hell, I think I'm better than others just because I realize that I'm not.  Talk about a retarded contradiction of your own self worth.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I always preferred the term 'Router flunky'.As someone who officially holds the title of 'Chief Technology Officer ' in a tiny company , where it actually means nothing I can safely say the reason people are so obsessed with titles is because we 've been trained to think that unless we are special in some way we are less important than others .
We 've been trained to 'NEED ' to be special .
We all ( generally speaking ) 'NEED ' to be royalty .
We all want to have others look up to us.Very few people are capable of realizing that we all have a place in the world , there are few people who contribute NOTHING AT ALL to the world .
I still care about my title , I still want to be special and think I 'm better than others .
I know I 'm not special .
I know I 'm just another cog in the machine .
I realize that even though logically I am not really special , I still think I am and I will continue to look down on others I do n't think are as special as myself.Thats one of the sad things about being human , I realize I 'm full of myself but that does n't actually stop me from being full of myself .
Logic does not always win out , even when you realize it.Hell , I think I 'm better than others just because I realize that I 'm not .
Talk about a retarded contradiction of your own self worth .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I always preferred the term 'Router flunky'.As someone who officially holds the title of 'Chief Technology Officer' in a tiny company, where it actually means nothing I can safely say the reason people are so obsessed with titles is because we've been trained to think that unless we are special in some way we are less important than others.
We've been trained to 'NEED' to be special.
We all (generally speaking) 'NEED' to be royalty.
We all want to have others look up to us.Very few people are capable of realizing that we all have a place in the world, there are few people who contribute NOTHING AT ALL to the world.
I still care about my title, I still want to be special and think I'm better than others.
I know I'm not special.
I know I'm just another cog in the machine.
I realize that even though logically I am not really special, I still think I am and I will continue to look down on others I don't think are as special as myself.Thats one of the sad things about being human, I realize I'm full of myself but that doesn't actually stop me from being full of myself.
Logic does not always win out, even when you realize it.Hell, I think I'm better than others just because I realize that I'm not.
Talk about a retarded contradiction of your own self worth.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263016</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30265136</id>
	<title>Official + unofficial titles</title>
	<author>zorro-z</author>
	<datestamp>1259502300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My official title is IT Support. After I accepted the job, I promptly took one card, added 'and Time Lord' to it, and stuck it on my door. If people choose to call me their IT Time Lord, I won't complain. Most important, though, is that they continue to call me employed. As long as they call me that, I'll accept Software Simian, Tech Turtle, Computer Crank, or any other term you choose.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My official title is IT Support .
After I accepted the job , I promptly took one card , added 'and Time Lord ' to it , and stuck it on my door .
If people choose to call me their IT Time Lord , I wo n't complain .
Most important , though , is that they continue to call me employed .
As long as they call me that , I 'll accept Software Simian , Tech Turtle , Computer Crank , or any other term you choose .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My official title is IT Support.
After I accepted the job, I promptly took one card, added 'and Time Lord' to it, and stuck it on my door.
If people choose to call me their IT Time Lord, I won't complain.
Most important, though, is that they continue to call me employed.
As long as they call me that, I'll accept Software Simian, Tech Turtle, Computer Crank, or any other term you choose.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263258</id>
	<title>Re:IT Guy ?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259527020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why rating this as Funny?</p><p>"IT guys" it's plain sexist.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why rating this as Funny ?
" IT guys " it 's plain sexist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why rating this as Funny?
"IT guys" it's plain sexist.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260308</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262842</id>
	<title>not an electrician!</title>
	<author>spacepigninja</author>
	<datestamp>1259523120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I am a student doing electronic engineering, and everytime I tell someone that I get: 'smart move, electricians make a lot of money!'</htmltext>
<tokenext>I am a student doing electronic engineering , and everytime I tell someone that I get : 'smart move , electricians make a lot of money !
'</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am a student doing electronic engineering, and everytime I tell someone that I get: 'smart move, electricians make a lot of money!
'</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30277518</id>
	<title>Petty</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259586960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, you are just being petty. Get over it, and start paying off those student loans!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , you are just being petty .
Get over it , and start paying off those student loans !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, you are just being petty.
Get over it, and start paying off those student loans!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263120</id>
	<title>Re:Self-important Douchebag</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259525640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's a ridiculous and absolutely inapplicable statement. The rich do not buy the same as the poor, anywhere, especially not in America. Cars? Houses? Mobile phones? Laptops? Handbags! Please!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's a ridiculous and absolutely inapplicable statement .
The rich do not buy the same as the poor , anywhere , especially not in America .
Cars ? Houses ?
Mobile phones ?
Laptops ? Handbags !
Please !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's a ridiculous and absolutely inapplicable statement.
The rich do not buy the same as the poor, anywhere, especially not in America.
Cars? Houses?
Mobile phones?
Laptops? Handbags!
Please!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260180</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30290262</id>
	<title>Re:Self-important Douchebag</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259668020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>you can call me an IT guy, you can call me a douchebag, just don't call me late to dinner!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>you can call me an IT guy , you can call me a douchebag , just do n't call me late to dinner !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you can call me an IT guy, you can call me a douchebag, just don't call me late to dinner!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260180</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30270292</id>
	<title>I may be an IT Guy, but...</title>
	<author>infernari</author>
	<datestamp>1259598660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have to agree with the need to diversify the terms we use. I may be an "IT Guy" but my speciality is datacenter administration/management. If you need power supplied to a new Blade Chassis or cooling for a new server room, I'm your guy, but good luck if you need me to fix the McAfee EPO agent...

That being said, I can't count the number of times I've been stopped by random users and asked to fix their Lotus Notes problems and I still don't know how to breakfix Notes. The term "IT" gives people a false sense that we all do the same job and the reason a department may be huge is so there's lots of people to come to your desk right now and fix it, not because there's a multitude of very specialized tasks that need attending by very differently trained individuals. The catch-all of IT to me shows a distinct lack of understanding in managing the technical talent a company employs.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have to agree with the need to diversify the terms we use .
I may be an " IT Guy " but my speciality is datacenter administration/management .
If you need power supplied to a new Blade Chassis or cooling for a new server room , I 'm your guy , but good luck if you need me to fix the McAfee EPO agent.. . That being said , I ca n't count the number of times I 've been stopped by random users and asked to fix their Lotus Notes problems and I still do n't know how to breakfix Notes .
The term " IT " gives people a false sense that we all do the same job and the reason a department may be huge is so there 's lots of people to come to your desk right now and fix it , not because there 's a multitude of very specialized tasks that need attending by very differently trained individuals .
The catch-all of IT to me shows a distinct lack of understanding in managing the technical talent a company employs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have to agree with the need to diversify the terms we use.
I may be an "IT Guy" but my speciality is datacenter administration/management.
If you need power supplied to a new Blade Chassis or cooling for a new server room, I'm your guy, but good luck if you need me to fix the McAfee EPO agent...

That being said, I can't count the number of times I've been stopped by random users and asked to fix their Lotus Notes problems and I still don't know how to breakfix Notes.
The term "IT" gives people a false sense that we all do the same job and the reason a department may be huge is so there's lots of people to come to your desk right now and fix it, not because there's a multitude of very specialized tasks that need attending by very differently trained individuals.
The catch-all of IT to me shows a distinct lack of understanding in managing the technical talent a company employs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262660</id>
	<title>Depends...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259521260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...on whether the person saying it is being a douchebag.  If it's just respectful shorthand to give the gist of my role in the organization, no biggie.  But if it's used dismissively ("Oh, he's just the IT guy."), with the assumption that because I do tech stuff I must not have any other abilities, then screw 'em.</p><p>My company's main IVR designer isn't actually in IT, and that's by her own insistence.  As part of The Business, she has some say on product decisions and can push back against groups like marketing etc. when their requirements just don't make any sense.  But as she's learned from personal experience, when lumped in with the "IT guys" she loses that clout and has to rubber-stamp whatever cockamamie ideas come her way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...on whether the person saying it is being a douchebag .
If it 's just respectful shorthand to give the gist of my role in the organization , no biggie .
But if it 's used dismissively ( " Oh , he 's just the IT guy .
" ) , with the assumption that because I do tech stuff I must not have any other abilities , then screw 'em.My company 's main IVR designer is n't actually in IT , and that 's by her own insistence .
As part of The Business , she has some say on product decisions and can push back against groups like marketing etc .
when their requirements just do n't make any sense .
But as she 's learned from personal experience , when lumped in with the " IT guys " she loses that clout and has to rubber-stamp whatever cockamamie ideas come her way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...on whether the person saying it is being a douchebag.
If it's just respectful shorthand to give the gist of my role in the organization, no biggie.
But if it's used dismissively ("Oh, he's just the IT guy.
"), with the assumption that because I do tech stuff I must not have any other abilities, then screw 'em.My company's main IVR designer isn't actually in IT, and that's by her own insistence.
As part of The Business, she has some say on product decisions and can push back against groups like marketing etc.
when their requirements just don't make any sense.
But as she's learned from personal experience, when lumped in with the "IT guys" she loses that clout and has to rubber-stamp whatever cockamamie ideas come her way.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262462</id>
	<title>Dijkstra</title>
	<author>StripedCow</author>
	<datestamp>1259519700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Take an example from <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edsger\_W.\_Dijkstra" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">Edsger Dijkstra</a> [wikipedia.org]. He was originally a theoretical physicist, but insisted on being called a "programmer".</p><p>From <a href="http://doi.ieeecomputersociety.org/10.1109/MS.2002.1032847" title="ieeecomputersociety.org" rel="nofollow">this</a> [ieeecomputersociety.org] article:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>What struck me 30 years ago and still<br>resonates in my mind today is how<br>Dijkstra was proud to be a programmer instead of a theoretical physicist.</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Take an example from Edsger Dijkstra [ wikipedia.org ] .
He was originally a theoretical physicist , but insisted on being called a " programmer " .From this [ ieeecomputersociety.org ] article : What struck me 30 years ago and stillresonates in my mind today is howDijkstra was proud to be a programmer instead of a theoretical physicist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Take an example from Edsger Dijkstra [wikipedia.org].
He was originally a theoretical physicist, but insisted on being called a "programmer".From this [ieeecomputersociety.org] article:What struck me 30 years ago and stillresonates in my mind today is howDijkstra was proud to be a programmer instead of a theoretical physicist.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260690</id>
	<title>I kind of get it</title>
	<author>Mahler</author>
	<datestamp>1259502360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have experience as a programmer, project manager, business analyst, software infrastructure architect, server and my current assignment is to create a new software department. You can call me an IT guy, but that doesn't describe my level of expertise. I graduated college as an Engineer, which doesn't describe all that either.</p><p>You wouldn't plainly call a building architect the "construction guy" or the CFO of a bank "a finance guy". Sometimes you need to make the distinction to prevent people from thinking that you have a simple job. If you are proud of your qualities, you can call it whatever makes you feel good.</p><p>I generally just tell people, that I'm a nerd.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have experience as a programmer , project manager , business analyst , software infrastructure architect , server and my current assignment is to create a new software department .
You can call me an IT guy , but that does n't describe my level of expertise .
I graduated college as an Engineer , which does n't describe all that either.You would n't plainly call a building architect the " construction guy " or the CFO of a bank " a finance guy " .
Sometimes you need to make the distinction to prevent people from thinking that you have a simple job .
If you are proud of your qualities , you can call it whatever makes you feel good.I generally just tell people , that I 'm a nerd .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have experience as a programmer, project manager, business analyst, software infrastructure architect, server and my current assignment is to create a new software department.
You can call me an IT guy, but that doesn't describe my level of expertise.
I graduated college as an Engineer, which doesn't describe all that either.You wouldn't plainly call a building architect the "construction guy" or the CFO of a bank "a finance guy".
Sometimes you need to make the distinction to prevent people from thinking that you have a simple job.
If you are proud of your qualities, you can call it whatever makes you feel good.I generally just tell people, that I'm a nerd.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260364</id>
	<title>I want to be known as Nerd of Doom</title>
	<author>FatherDale</author>
	<datestamp>1259498520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Mmmm. Nope, not offended. I *am* an IT guy. Since my boss refers to himself as "head geek", I'd have a tough time getting upset by it. I'm the "virus geek" in our shop. What I resent  is Best Buy stealin' our titles....</htmltext>
<tokenext>Mmmm .
Nope , not offended .
I * am * an IT guy .
Since my boss refers to himself as " head geek " , I 'd have a tough time getting upset by it .
I 'm the " virus geek " in our shop .
What I resent is Best Buy stealin ' our titles... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mmmm.
Nope, not offended.
I *am* an IT guy.
Since my boss refers to himself as "head geek", I'd have a tough time getting upset by it.
I'm the "virus geek" in our shop.
What I resent  is Best Buy stealin' our titles....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261780</id>
	<title>Re:Yes, I do. But people don't call me one.</title>
	<author>cowscows</author>
	<datestamp>1259514300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're a pet peeve of mine<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p><p>I design buildings for a living, and in my field, the job title "architect" is pretty highly regulated. I have a masters degree in architecture and over 4 years of experience practicing, yet I can't refer to myself as anything containing the word "architect" or else I face potential legal issues.  To use the word "architect" in my job description, I have to be licensed, which requires 3 years of internship work, then passing a bunch of licensing exams. And then continuous education credits as well as yearly fees for pretty much the rest of my life.</p><p>My gripe isn't with you, it's just silly how the architecture profession has gone to all of this trouble harassing the newcomers to its profession, yet at the same time allowed other fields to take the term "architect" and hand it out almost arbitrarily.</p><p>OK, I'm done.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're a pet peeve of mine ; ) I design buildings for a living , and in my field , the job title " architect " is pretty highly regulated .
I have a masters degree in architecture and over 4 years of experience practicing , yet I ca n't refer to myself as anything containing the word " architect " or else I face potential legal issues .
To use the word " architect " in my job description , I have to be licensed , which requires 3 years of internship work , then passing a bunch of licensing exams .
And then continuous education credits as well as yearly fees for pretty much the rest of my life.My gripe is n't with you , it 's just silly how the architecture profession has gone to all of this trouble harassing the newcomers to its profession , yet at the same time allowed other fields to take the term " architect " and hand it out almost arbitrarily.OK , I 'm done .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're a pet peeve of mine ;)I design buildings for a living, and in my field, the job title "architect" is pretty highly regulated.
I have a masters degree in architecture and over 4 years of experience practicing, yet I can't refer to myself as anything containing the word "architect" or else I face potential legal issues.
To use the word "architect" in my job description, I have to be licensed, which requires 3 years of internship work, then passing a bunch of licensing exams.
And then continuous education credits as well as yearly fees for pretty much the rest of my life.My gripe isn't with you, it's just silly how the architecture profession has gone to all of this trouble harassing the newcomers to its profession, yet at the same time allowed other fields to take the term "architect" and hand it out almost arbitrarily.OK, I'm done.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260346</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30265194</id>
	<title>Oh my...</title>
	<author>pierreact</author>
	<datestamp>1259503080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You have to figure out most people out there just have no idea what C++ is compared to installing an anti-virus, we live on a different planet, deal with it.
How you'd call an inhabitant of mars? martian? wether it's a worm of some evoluated lifeform won't you?
for them it's the same.

Plus... you're in IT... didn't you study for that?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/me points to a therapist</htmltext>
<tokenext>You have to figure out most people out there just have no idea what C + + is compared to installing an anti-virus , we live on a different planet , deal with it .
How you 'd call an inhabitant of mars ?
martian ? wether it 's a worm of some evoluated lifeform wo n't you ?
for them it 's the same .
Plus... you 're in IT... did n't you study for that ?
/me points to a therapist</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You have to figure out most people out there just have no idea what C++ is compared to installing an anti-virus, we live on a different planet, deal with it.
How you'd call an inhabitant of mars?
martian? wether it's a worm of some evoluated lifeform won't you?
for them it's the same.
Plus... you're in IT... didn't you study for that?
/me points to a therapist</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260288</id>
	<title>Re:I am a software engineer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259496720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I laughed when I read the WAN latency issue. The number of IT people that know the difference between latency and bandwidth and their effect on a system is shocking. The number of times I have to explain that no matter how much bandwidth you are getting, it would not make a difference for a lot of applications. (This of course is a more common issue here in South Africa because the lowest possible round-trip latency to the US and Europe is a 100+ms).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I laughed when I read the WAN latency issue .
The number of IT people that know the difference between latency and bandwidth and their effect on a system is shocking .
The number of times I have to explain that no matter how much bandwidth you are getting , it would not make a difference for a lot of applications .
( This of course is a more common issue here in South Africa because the lowest possible round-trip latency to the US and Europe is a 100 + ms ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I laughed when I read the WAN latency issue.
The number of IT people that know the difference between latency and bandwidth and their effect on a system is shocking.
The number of times I have to explain that no matter how much bandwidth you are getting, it would not make a difference for a lot of applications.
(This of course is a more common issue here in South Africa because the lowest possible round-trip latency to the US and Europe is a 100+ms).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260828</id>
	<title>Re:Grammar Nazi to the Rescue!</title>
	<author>gbjbaanb</author>
	<datestamp>1259504220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I suppose we could go back to the old term for the technical computer people - the "Data Processing" department. I'm not sure when it changed to Information Technology.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I suppose we could go back to the old term for the technical computer people - the " Data Processing " department .
I 'm not sure when it changed to Information Technology .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I suppose we could go back to the old term for the technical computer people - the "Data Processing" department.
I'm not sure when it changed to Information Technology.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260042</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261428</id>
	<title>How about...</title>
	<author>FooGoo</author>
	<datestamp>1259510640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>we change your title to "Whining Pussy Who Spent too Much Time in School"? It will help your colleagues understand that you are top tier talent not to be confused with the average IT guy. Seriously dude, if you are concerned enough to post this on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. you don't deserve the title of IT Guy, the ability to influence senior management, nor the responsibility of managing subordinates. Maybe you would prefer a position in marketing or sales.</p><p>It's about what's in your head and your heart and not what's on your business card or velcro'd to your cube wall. But if it makes you feel better you can print up a business card that says whatever you want for fairly reasonable rates and keep it next to your heart.<br>MM</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>we change your title to " Whining Pussy Who Spent too Much Time in School " ?
It will help your colleagues understand that you are top tier talent not to be confused with the average IT guy .
Seriously dude , if you are concerned enough to post this on / .
you do n't deserve the title of IT Guy , the ability to influence senior management , nor the responsibility of managing subordinates .
Maybe you would prefer a position in marketing or sales.It 's about what 's in your head and your heart and not what 's on your business card or velcro 'd to your cube wall .
But if it makes you feel better you can print up a business card that says whatever you want for fairly reasonable rates and keep it next to your heart.MM</tokentext>
<sentencetext>we change your title to "Whining Pussy Who Spent too Much Time in School"?
It will help your colleagues understand that you are top tier talent not to be confused with the average IT guy.
Seriously dude, if you are concerned enough to post this on /.
you don't deserve the title of IT Guy, the ability to influence senior management, nor the responsibility of managing subordinates.
Maybe you would prefer a position in marketing or sales.It's about what's in your head and your heart and not what's on your business card or velcro'd to your cube wall.
But if it makes you feel better you can print up a business card that says whatever you want for fairly reasonable rates and keep it next to your heart.MM</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30271644</id>
	<title>Re:Information Technology (IT)</title>
	<author>CAIMLAS</author>
	<datestamp>1259606040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, it isn't. Calling everyone "IT" is the equivilent to calling a brain surgeon a medical transcriptionist - you know, the ones which write out what all the doctors say, and who have only the requirement of being able to type quickly.</p><p>That's what often happens. Some guy with a BS in CS (or IT), a masters or the like, and additional training gets called an "IT guy" with regularity by the other staff where they work. It's inexcusable, because it only happens to IT.</p><p>Now we just need to figure out how to make it OK to appear like irritable/grumpy eccentrics, like the doctors pull off.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , it is n't .
Calling everyone " IT " is the equivilent to calling a brain surgeon a medical transcriptionist - you know , the ones which write out what all the doctors say , and who have only the requirement of being able to type quickly.That 's what often happens .
Some guy with a BS in CS ( or IT ) , a masters or the like , and additional training gets called an " IT guy " with regularity by the other staff where they work .
It 's inexcusable , because it only happens to IT.Now we just need to figure out how to make it OK to appear like irritable/grumpy eccentrics , like the doctors pull off .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, it isn't.
Calling everyone "IT" is the equivilent to calling a brain surgeon a medical transcriptionist - you know, the ones which write out what all the doctors say, and who have only the requirement of being able to type quickly.That's what often happens.
Some guy with a BS in CS (or IT), a masters or the like, and additional training gets called an "IT guy" with regularity by the other staff where they work.
It's inexcusable, because it only happens to IT.Now we just need to figure out how to make it OK to appear like irritable/grumpy eccentrics, like the doctors pull off.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260102</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261954</id>
	<title>I wouldn't mind</title>
	<author>whitroth</author>
	<datestamp>1259515740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What I mind are a lot of other names, some of which techie-oriented folks accept. The real problem, to me, is that non-techies use them to denigrate us, and too many here don't see that.</p><p>Far too many in the US, living in the most powerful, "advanced" country in the history of the world, have NO F*CKING CLUE how *anything* works, conflate flipping a switch to turn on the lights with Harry Potter-style magic, and don't *care* to try to know.</p><p>A century ago, some all the nationalistic stereotypes were, in fact positive. Consider French with cooking, or Germans with engineering. Americans - train going through the Alps breaks down, little 70 yr old American woman gets out of a car, hobbles up, looks at engine where train crew is arguing about how to fix, stick a hairpin in, and engine starts.</p><p>Today, the motto of the US is "no user serviceable parts inside". How many TV shows ever had one person who you'd trust to clean their toaster and not get electrocuted?</p><p>"Geek" is my own personal hobbyhorse, which I actively dislike. Now, it comes from carny (carnival) slang, and referred to the usually retarded man who made his living in the freak show, billed as The Wild Man of Borneo, or some such, and biting the heads off live chickens. Now, Newt Gingrich, who served his first wife divorce papers while she was in the hospital with chemo, qualifies (look it up, it happened).</p><p>Maybe we ought to start using more aggressive names for *them* than "non-techie", and *maybe* they'll realized what they're doing.</p><p>Or maybe not.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; mark, techie and proud</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What I mind are a lot of other names , some of which techie-oriented folks accept .
The real problem , to me , is that non-techies use them to denigrate us , and too many here do n't see that.Far too many in the US , living in the most powerful , " advanced " country in the history of the world , have NO F * CKING CLUE how * anything * works , conflate flipping a switch to turn on the lights with Harry Potter-style magic , and do n't * care * to try to know.A century ago , some all the nationalistic stereotypes were , in fact positive .
Consider French with cooking , or Germans with engineering .
Americans - train going through the Alps breaks down , little 70 yr old American woman gets out of a car , hobbles up , looks at engine where train crew is arguing about how to fix , stick a hairpin in , and engine starts.Today , the motto of the US is " no user serviceable parts inside " .
How many TV shows ever had one person who you 'd trust to clean their toaster and not get electrocuted ?
" Geek " is my own personal hobbyhorse , which I actively dislike .
Now , it comes from carny ( carnival ) slang , and referred to the usually retarded man who made his living in the freak show , billed as The Wild Man of Borneo , or some such , and biting the heads off live chickens .
Now , Newt Gingrich , who served his first wife divorce papers while she was in the hospital with chemo , qualifies ( look it up , it happened ) .Maybe we ought to start using more aggressive names for * them * than " non-techie " , and * maybe * they 'll realized what they 're doing.Or maybe not .
        mark , techie and proud</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What I mind are a lot of other names, some of which techie-oriented folks accept.
The real problem, to me, is that non-techies use them to denigrate us, and too many here don't see that.Far too many in the US, living in the most powerful, "advanced" country in the history of the world, have NO F*CKING CLUE how *anything* works, conflate flipping a switch to turn on the lights with Harry Potter-style magic, and don't *care* to try to know.A century ago, some all the nationalistic stereotypes were, in fact positive.
Consider French with cooking, or Germans with engineering.
Americans - train going through the Alps breaks down, little 70 yr old American woman gets out of a car, hobbles up, looks at engine where train crew is arguing about how to fix, stick a hairpin in, and engine starts.Today, the motto of the US is "no user serviceable parts inside".
How many TV shows ever had one person who you'd trust to clean their toaster and not get electrocuted?
"Geek" is my own personal hobbyhorse, which I actively dislike.
Now, it comes from carny (carnival) slang, and referred to the usually retarded man who made his living in the freak show, billed as The Wild Man of Borneo, or some such, and biting the heads off live chickens.
Now, Newt Gingrich, who served his first wife divorce papers while she was in the hospital with chemo, qualifies (look it up, it happened).Maybe we ought to start using more aggressive names for *them* than "non-techie", and *maybe* they'll realized what they're doing.Or maybe not.
        mark, techie and proud</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261388</id>
	<title>Re:Petty?</title>
	<author>jellomizer</author>
	<datestamp>1259510160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Exactly there are a lot of business functions with rather generic names.</p><p>Human Resource... Are these the guys who keep track of your sick days or are they the ones who analyses  all the people in there jobs and makes sure each one is the right fit and is being compensated for their work, and that their home/work life can stay balanced.</p><p>Marketing... Are these guys the ones who do cold calls to the customer during dinner.  Or are they the ones who do a lot of work to figure out who their target market is and crate a plan where people who would want the product know about it.</p><p>Janitorial... Do they just empty trash cans and vacuums the floor, or do they do the plumbing electricity and landscaping and all the things to keep the building in running operation.</p><p>Management... Do they just make sure you do what their boss tell them to make you do. Or are they part of the decision process and work on the direction of the company and come up with ways of improving the business in their section.</p><p>Finance... Do they just make sure they are bringing in more money then they are spending. Or are they tracking/investing and controlling the flow of money in the organization.</p><p>IT like any job really covers a wide area from rather low end jobs to high end jobs.</p><p>In reality IT has a lot of titles with in the group, and each group has its own rage in them too...  Support, Administration, Software Development, Software Architecture, Hardware design... CTO, CIO...  When I post on a Resume I don't say I am an IT Guy I say I am a Software Developer or a Software Architect (I am kinda in the middle professionally)    I havn't seen to many jobs looking for IT Guys... However after you are hired you may be called such outside of IT... Just as you call them Marketing Guys or HR Guys...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly there are a lot of business functions with rather generic names.Human Resource... Are these the guys who keep track of your sick days or are they the ones who analyses all the people in there jobs and makes sure each one is the right fit and is being compensated for their work , and that their home/work life can stay balanced.Marketing... Are these guys the ones who do cold calls to the customer during dinner .
Or are they the ones who do a lot of work to figure out who their target market is and crate a plan where people who would want the product know about it.Janitorial... Do they just empty trash cans and vacuums the floor , or do they do the plumbing electricity and landscaping and all the things to keep the building in running operation.Management... Do they just make sure you do what their boss tell them to make you do .
Or are they part of the decision process and work on the direction of the company and come up with ways of improving the business in their section.Finance... Do they just make sure they are bringing in more money then they are spending .
Or are they tracking/investing and controlling the flow of money in the organization.IT like any job really covers a wide area from rather low end jobs to high end jobs.In reality IT has a lot of titles with in the group , and each group has its own rage in them too... Support , Administration , Software Development , Software Architecture , Hardware design... CTO , CIO... When I post on a Resume I do n't say I am an IT Guy I say I am a Software Developer or a Software Architect ( I am kinda in the middle professionally ) I hav n't seen to many jobs looking for IT Guys... However after you are hired you may be called such outside of IT... Just as you call them Marketing Guys or HR Guys.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly there are a lot of business functions with rather generic names.Human Resource... Are these the guys who keep track of your sick days or are they the ones who analyses  all the people in there jobs and makes sure each one is the right fit and is being compensated for their work, and that their home/work life can stay balanced.Marketing... Are these guys the ones who do cold calls to the customer during dinner.
Or are they the ones who do a lot of work to figure out who their target market is and crate a plan where people who would want the product know about it.Janitorial... Do they just empty trash cans and vacuums the floor, or do they do the plumbing electricity and landscaping and all the things to keep the building in running operation.Management... Do they just make sure you do what their boss tell them to make you do.
Or are they part of the decision process and work on the direction of the company and come up with ways of improving the business in their section.Finance... Do they just make sure they are bringing in more money then they are spending.
Or are they tracking/investing and controlling the flow of money in the organization.IT like any job really covers a wide area from rather low end jobs to high end jobs.In reality IT has a lot of titles with in the group, and each group has its own rage in them too...  Support, Administration, Software Development, Software Architecture, Hardware design... CTO, CIO...  When I post on a Resume I don't say I am an IT Guy I say I am a Software Developer or a Software Architect (I am kinda in the middle professionally)    I havn't seen to many jobs looking for IT Guys... However after you are hired you may be called such outside of IT... Just as you call them Marketing Guys or HR Guys...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260046</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261346</id>
	<title>Simplification</title>
	<author>Avatar8</author>
	<datestamp>1259509740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"IT" for the unwashed masses is "all things related to computers that I don't understand." They cannot comprehend the difference between a developer or a sysadmin. They cannot distinguish between software and hardware. They call the black box sitting on their floor/desktop the "CPU," for goodness sakes. They neither understand nor care what you call yourself just as long as you 'make it go,' they make money and you make money.<p>
Call yourself whatever you want and add whatever certifications and initials behind your name that you want. If you work in technology you are under the IT umbrella. We do what we do because they don't understand it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" IT " for the unwashed masses is " all things related to computers that I do n't understand .
" They can not comprehend the difference between a developer or a sysadmin .
They can not distinguish between software and hardware .
They call the black box sitting on their floor/desktop the " CPU , " for goodness sakes .
They neither understand nor care what you call yourself just as long as you 'make it go, ' they make money and you make money .
Call yourself whatever you want and add whatever certifications and initials behind your name that you want .
If you work in technology you are under the IT umbrella .
We do what we do because they do n't understand it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"IT" for the unwashed masses is "all things related to computers that I don't understand.
" They cannot comprehend the difference between a developer or a sysadmin.
They cannot distinguish between software and hardware.
They call the black box sitting on their floor/desktop the "CPU," for goodness sakes.
They neither understand nor care what you call yourself just as long as you 'make it go,' they make money and you make money.
Call yourself whatever you want and add whatever certifications and initials behind your name that you want.
If you work in technology you are under the IT umbrella.
We do what we do because they don't understand it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260714</id>
	<title>IT vs. Computer Science</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259502660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't think it's wrong to call IT IT, but IT and Computer Science (and Computer Engineering and MIS) have different degree titles for a reason - the content s very different.  An IT guy might know some programming, and a Computer Science guy might know some of the ins and outs of installing windows, but they are fundamentally different skills.  I don't really suggest engineering either, unless what you are doing fulfills the actual definition of engineering.  (Sometimes this definition is legally enforced, I might add - look up the whole MSCE fiasco).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think it 's wrong to call IT IT , but IT and Computer Science ( and Computer Engineering and MIS ) have different degree titles for a reason - the content s very different .
An IT guy might know some programming , and a Computer Science guy might know some of the ins and outs of installing windows , but they are fundamentally different skills .
I do n't really suggest engineering either , unless what you are doing fulfills the actual definition of engineering .
( Sometimes this definition is legally enforced , I might add - look up the whole MSCE fiasco ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think it's wrong to call IT IT, but IT and Computer Science (and Computer Engineering and MIS) have different degree titles for a reason - the content s very different.
An IT guy might know some programming, and a Computer Science guy might know some of the ins and outs of installing windows, but they are fundamentally different skills.
I don't really suggest engineering either, unless what you are doing fulfills the actual definition of engineering.
(Sometimes this definition is legally enforced, I might add - look up the whole MSCE fiasco).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260184</id>
	<title>Honestly yes...</title>
	<author>emanem</author>
	<datestamp>1259495040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Because IT term is so generic... plus many times is used with as a bit of downgrading term...<br>
Cheers,</htmltext>
<tokenext>Because IT term is so generic... plus many times is used with as a bit of downgrading term.. . Cheers,</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because IT term is so generic... plus many times is used with as a bit of downgrading term...
Cheers,</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261674</id>
	<title>Deal with it!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259513220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Get over yourself! Even the janitor is a custodial "engineer".<br>I went to school for years and years too and don't mind the label. Your job, ultimately, is to make the extremely difficult appear easy for the end user. A simple all-encompassing moniker of "IT Guy" falls into that concept of "simplicity".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Get over yourself !
Even the janitor is a custodial " engineer " .I went to school for years and years too and do n't mind the label .
Your job , ultimately , is to make the extremely difficult appear easy for the end user .
A simple all-encompassing moniker of " IT Guy " falls into that concept of " simplicity " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get over yourself!
Even the janitor is a custodial "engineer".I went to school for years and years too and don't mind the label.
Your job, ultimately, is to make the extremely difficult appear easy for the end user.
A simple all-encompassing moniker of "IT Guy" falls into that concept of "simplicity".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262580</id>
	<title>I am fine with being called IT</title>
	<author>tyrr</author>
	<datestamp>1259520600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I work in the Engineering Department. Engineering is indeed a very important aspect of my work. However, Information is even more important part of my responsibilities.
<br>
I prefer to be called Information Technology because that is what my work ultimately affects. Information acquisition, refinement, verification, processing, analysis, synthesis, storage, distribution, and protection are my specialties. In a way, that makes me the most knowledgeable person in the company.
<br>
I am a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter\_Drucker" title="wikipedia.org">Druker's</a> [wikipedia.org] "knowledge worker".</htmltext>
<tokenext>I work in the Engineering Department .
Engineering is indeed a very important aspect of my work .
However , Information is even more important part of my responsibilities .
I prefer to be called Information Technology because that is what my work ultimately affects .
Information acquisition , refinement , verification , processing , analysis , synthesis , storage , distribution , and protection are my specialties .
In a way , that makes me the most knowledgeable person in the company .
I am a Druker 's [ wikipedia.org ] " knowledge worker " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work in the Engineering Department.
Engineering is indeed a very important aspect of my work.
However, Information is even more important part of my responsibilities.
I prefer to be called Information Technology because that is what my work ultimately affects.
Information acquisition, refinement, verification, processing, analysis, synthesis, storage, distribution, and protection are my specialties.
In a way, that makes me the most knowledgeable person in the company.
I am a Druker's [wikipedia.org] "knowledge worker".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264816</id>
	<title>A degree is like being in the military...</title>
	<author>agentc0re</author>
	<datestamp>1259499060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well except that it's usually more of an Honor to have served than to have gone to college.  A degree says I was able to deal with a lot of stupid things that i really didn't need to do for 4 years and I did it how i was told.<br><br>I hate people who think that because they have a degree in English and/or History, IE like the post above(i just didn't want to directly reply to him), that they are more than the other person that has just as much experience but not the degree.  I would never higher someone based off a degree, experience wins always.  I'm sure most everyone would agree with me on that.  With either of those two degree's anyways, why would you expect to be looked at on a pedestal when you work in IT?  They have nothing, absolutely nothing to do with your line of work.<br><br>I can understand having different titles with in the IT department so that if and when you do need to higher you can attract the correct crowd.  But in the end, does it really freaking matter?  No.<br><br>So you degree mongering jackasses should just stop thinking you're better than someone who has more experience than you but only a HS diploma.  You're going to learn the real world now, and it's nothing like the text book.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well except that it 's usually more of an Honor to have served than to have gone to college .
A degree says I was able to deal with a lot of stupid things that i really did n't need to do for 4 years and I did it how i was told.I hate people who think that because they have a degree in English and/or History , IE like the post above ( i just did n't want to directly reply to him ) , that they are more than the other person that has just as much experience but not the degree .
I would never higher someone based off a degree , experience wins always .
I 'm sure most everyone would agree with me on that .
With either of those two degree 's anyways , why would you expect to be looked at on a pedestal when you work in IT ?
They have nothing , absolutely nothing to do with your line of work.I can understand having different titles with in the IT department so that if and when you do need to higher you can attract the correct crowd .
But in the end , does it really freaking matter ?
No.So you degree mongering jackasses should just stop thinking you 're better than someone who has more experience than you but only a HS diploma .
You 're going to learn the real world now , and it 's nothing like the text book .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well except that it's usually more of an Honor to have served than to have gone to college.
A degree says I was able to deal with a lot of stupid things that i really didn't need to do for 4 years and I did it how i was told.I hate people who think that because they have a degree in English and/or History, IE like the post above(i just didn't want to directly reply to him), that they are more than the other person that has just as much experience but not the degree.
I would never higher someone based off a degree, experience wins always.
I'm sure most everyone would agree with me on that.
With either of those two degree's anyways, why would you expect to be looked at on a pedestal when you work in IT?
They have nothing, absolutely nothing to do with your line of work.I can understand having different titles with in the IT department so that if and when you do need to higher you can attract the correct crowd.
But in the end, does it really freaking matter?
No.So you degree mongering jackasses should just stop thinking you're better than someone who has more experience than you but only a HS diploma.
You're going to learn the real world now, and it's nothing like the text book.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30268126</id>
	<title>Don't ruin my title</title>
	<author>cyber-dragon.net</author>
	<datestamp>1259575920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree with you but not for the reasons you would want.</p><p>I AM an IT guy and I hate the title being over used because most people given that title can't do my job.<br>People with fancier titles think they can, and I have spent plenty of time fixing things engineers who were "smarter than IT guys" did. It gets even worse the more someone whines about their education and title, they are the ones cause the biggest problems as far as system administration goes. This is a generalization of course, not a stereotype.</p><p>Though you are correct that you should not be called an IT guy, you are insulting in your reasons for it. Most reports say you need about 1:25 ratio for IT, and I have maintained 60-70 people on my own. I am quite good at what I do and for a "mere" manager to be called an IT guy is indeed insulting, but not to you, to me<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>Ok maybe not, but you get the point. Yes, your post was full of unwarranted ego. Tone that down and you might get somewhere, don't, and your screwed the next time you have a problem and need us lowly IT guys to fix it. Remember everyone has their place, and their role to fill, a job to do. Thinking you are above anyone else usually means less useful, not more. I have been told "that's not my job" before and had the employee escorted out of the building as I assumed that was a resignation. I then filed it as such with HR so they would get no benefit for being fired, they quit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree with you but not for the reasons you would want.I AM an IT guy and I hate the title being over used because most people given that title ca n't do my job.People with fancier titles think they can , and I have spent plenty of time fixing things engineers who were " smarter than IT guys " did .
It gets even worse the more someone whines about their education and title , they are the ones cause the biggest problems as far as system administration goes .
This is a generalization of course , not a stereotype.Though you are correct that you should not be called an IT guy , you are insulting in your reasons for it .
Most reports say you need about 1 : 25 ratio for IT , and I have maintained 60-70 people on my own .
I am quite good at what I do and for a " mere " manager to be called an IT guy is indeed insulting , but not to you , to me : ) Ok maybe not , but you get the point .
Yes , your post was full of unwarranted ego .
Tone that down and you might get somewhere , do n't , and your screwed the next time you have a problem and need us lowly IT guys to fix it .
Remember everyone has their place , and their role to fill , a job to do .
Thinking you are above anyone else usually means less useful , not more .
I have been told " that 's not my job " before and had the employee escorted out of the building as I assumed that was a resignation .
I then filed it as such with HR so they would get no benefit for being fired , they quit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree with you but not for the reasons you would want.I AM an IT guy and I hate the title being over used because most people given that title can't do my job.People with fancier titles think they can, and I have spent plenty of time fixing things engineers who were "smarter than IT guys" did.
It gets even worse the more someone whines about their education and title, they are the ones cause the biggest problems as far as system administration goes.
This is a generalization of course, not a stereotype.Though you are correct that you should not be called an IT guy, you are insulting in your reasons for it.
Most reports say you need about 1:25 ratio for IT, and I have maintained 60-70 people on my own.
I am quite good at what I do and for a "mere" manager to be called an IT guy is indeed insulting, but not to you, to me :)Ok maybe not, but you get the point.
Yes, your post was full of unwarranted ego.
Tone that down and you might get somewhere, don't, and your screwed the next time you have a problem and need us lowly IT guys to fix it.
Remember everyone has their place, and their role to fill, a job to do.
Thinking you are above anyone else usually means less useful, not more.
I have been told "that's not my job" before and had the employee escorted out of the building as I assumed that was a resignation.
I then filed it as such with HR so they would get no benefit for being fired, they quit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260216</id>
	<title>Information Systems Developper</title>
	<author>etenil</author>
	<datestamp>1259495520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Does it sound better and more accurate? after all, a program is a way to process data and information.

The guys who repair computers are already called "Computer Support Team" so that should be ok for the distinction.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Does it sound better and more accurate ?
after all , a program is a way to process data and information .
The guys who repair computers are already called " Computer Support Team " so that should be ok for the distinction .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does it sound better and more accurate?
after all, a program is a way to process data and information.
The guys who repair computers are already called "Computer Support Team" so that should be ok for the distinction.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30268000</id>
	<title>IT Guy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259574600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah right i work for a large consumer electronics retailer and every Tom, Dick and Harry think there a IT GUY or know a kid or friend thats one<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)<br>I do enjoy finding items like this <a href="http://www.c64web.com/" title="c64web.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.c64web.com/</a> [c64web.com] Old C64 Web Server  Now there is a IT GUY<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah right i work for a large consumer electronics retailer and every Tom , Dick and Harry think there a IT GUY or know a kid or friend thats one : ) I do enjoy finding items like this http : //www.c64web.com/ [ c64web.com ] Old C64 Web Server Now there is a IT GUY : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah right i work for a large consumer electronics retailer and every Tom, Dick and Harry think there a IT GUY or know a kid or friend thats one :)I do enjoy finding items like this http://www.c64web.com/ [c64web.com] Old C64 Web Server  Now there is a IT GUY :)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30270072</id>
	<title>I prefer Computer Cowboy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259597460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGXeBpvCxro</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = UGXeBpvCxro</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGXeBpvCxro</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260764</id>
	<title>working for infactdead corepirate nazi felons...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259503260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>so what's in a name/not to like? the monIE? yet another smoke&amp;mirrors trick/illusion. it's probably better not to know what they are really wanting to call you. tell 'em robbIE.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>so what 's in a name/not to like ?
the monIE ?
yet another smoke&amp;mirrors trick/illusion .
it 's probably better not to know what they are really wanting to call you .
tell 'em robbIE .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>so what's in a name/not to like?
the monIE?
yet another smoke&amp;mirrors trick/illusion.
it's probably better not to know what they are really wanting to call you.
tell 'em robbIE.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260190</id>
	<title>Re:IT guys use the same about other departments</title>
	<author>x2A</author>
	<datestamp>1259495100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Whether you're a programmer or are IT support is not simple a matter of studying something different... you could study software development and end up in IT support, or you could study biology and end up as a programmer. I don't think this is a matter of refering to someone's abilities, it's a matter of refering to what they actually do. If you work for a marketting company, but you just make the tea, it wouldn't really be correct to say "I work in marketing", because you don't, you just happen to work for a company that is in marketing. You wouldn't call the person who supports their IT needs a marketer any more than you'd call those in marketing 'programmers' because they use a computer.</p><p>Your knowledge of the subject may leave you having to round down, but that doesn't mean there's no need for accurate description, you don't need to understand the terms to understand the purpose of a little accuracy. Call a British person French, or a Canadian an American, you might live the other side of the world and so a few miles one way or another makes no different <i>to you</i>, but you can always bet that it matters to them. It's hardly a difficult thing to respect.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Whether you 're a programmer or are IT support is not simple a matter of studying something different... you could study software development and end up in IT support , or you could study biology and end up as a programmer .
I do n't think this is a matter of refering to someone 's abilities , it 's a matter of refering to what they actually do .
If you work for a marketting company , but you just make the tea , it would n't really be correct to say " I work in marketing " , because you do n't , you just happen to work for a company that is in marketing .
You would n't call the person who supports their IT needs a marketer any more than you 'd call those in marketing 'programmers ' because they use a computer.Your knowledge of the subject may leave you having to round down , but that does n't mean there 's no need for accurate description , you do n't need to understand the terms to understand the purpose of a little accuracy .
Call a British person French , or a Canadian an American , you might live the other side of the world and so a few miles one way or another makes no different to you , but you can always bet that it matters to them .
It 's hardly a difficult thing to respect .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Whether you're a programmer or are IT support is not simple a matter of studying something different... you could study software development and end up in IT support, or you could study biology and end up as a programmer.
I don't think this is a matter of refering to someone's abilities, it's a matter of refering to what they actually do.
If you work for a marketting company, but you just make the tea, it wouldn't really be correct to say "I work in marketing", because you don't, you just happen to work for a company that is in marketing.
You wouldn't call the person who supports their IT needs a marketer any more than you'd call those in marketing 'programmers' because they use a computer.Your knowledge of the subject may leave you having to round down, but that doesn't mean there's no need for accurate description, you don't need to understand the terms to understand the purpose of a little accuracy.
Call a British person French, or a Canadian an American, you might live the other side of the world and so a few miles one way or another makes no different to you, but you can always bet that it matters to them.
It's hardly a difficult thing to respect.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260120</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260142</id>
	<title>I swear</title>
	<author>anarking</author>
	<datestamp>1259494440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If one more person says "Oh, you're in IT." one more time, I'm gonna go postal. (do postal workers not like that?)  Anyways, it's about the stigma associated with the word. People equate it with lowly service to fix their "CPU"  o\_0  Helpdesk it what they know. Network engineers, software developers, we need to shatter this image of low-level service said by "IT" and make people realize what it is that we do and how essential it is to them even being able to work or use what products are developed for them. Only then will "IT" get any respect beyond the computer janitor image people so ignorantly have of it now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If one more person says " Oh , you 're in IT .
" one more time , I 'm gon na go postal .
( do postal workers not like that ?
) Anyways , it 's about the stigma associated with the word .
People equate it with lowly service to fix their " CPU " o \ _0 Helpdesk it what they know .
Network engineers , software developers , we need to shatter this image of low-level service said by " IT " and make people realize what it is that we do and how essential it is to them even being able to work or use what products are developed for them .
Only then will " IT " get any respect beyond the computer janitor image people so ignorantly have of it now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If one more person says "Oh, you're in IT.
" one more time, I'm gonna go postal.
(do postal workers not like that?
)  Anyways, it's about the stigma associated with the word.
People equate it with lowly service to fix their "CPU"  o\_0  Helpdesk it what they know.
Network engineers, software developers, we need to shatter this image of low-level service said by "IT" and make people realize what it is that we do and how essential it is to them even being able to work or use what products are developed for them.
Only then will "IT" get any respect beyond the computer janitor image people so ignorantly have of it now.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260118</id>
	<title>What about 'Tech Mage'?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259494080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Or The Wizard.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Or The Wizard .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or The Wizard.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261758</id>
	<title>Is embedded/real-time/safety "IT"?</title>
	<author>david.emery</author>
	<datestamp>1259514120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, I think there is a difference (albeit a bit fuzzy at times) between the kinds of things I've done for my career, most of it very large scale embedded, some real-time, some safety-critical, and what we used to call "Management Information Systems" and now seem to call "IT".  The skill set is a bit different, the tools are most certainly different, the engineering and deployment characteristics are different.</p><p>In particular, what bothers me is when people hear I do software development, assume "he's an IT guy" and then "can you fix my computer?"  My answer to that is usually, "No, go buy a Mac.  I don't do Windows."  (I don't mean to start the Mac vs Windows debate, but I will point out that most of my development experience has been on Unix systems, and one reason I like Macs is that I can load the developer tools, pop open a shell, launch Emacs - Aquamacs is an amazing port to the Mac - and be back in my developer comfort zone.)</p><p>Oh, and my current job title is "Chief Software Architect", although I do not draw any distinction between "software architecture" and "system architecture."  (A lot of what I see called 'software architecture' I'd call 'top-level design'.)  Much of what I know about large scale software-intensive systems architecture is in IEEE Std 1471:2000 / ISO/IEC 42010:2007, "Recommended Practice for Architecture Description of Software Intensive Systems".  I'm working on the revision of this standard, which among other things generalizes its scope to 'systems' in general, including software-only systems and even software services.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , I think there is a difference ( albeit a bit fuzzy at times ) between the kinds of things I 've done for my career , most of it very large scale embedded , some real-time , some safety-critical , and what we used to call " Management Information Systems " and now seem to call " IT " .
The skill set is a bit different , the tools are most certainly different , the engineering and deployment characteristics are different.In particular , what bothers me is when people hear I do software development , assume " he 's an IT guy " and then " can you fix my computer ?
" My answer to that is usually , " No , go buy a Mac .
I do n't do Windows .
" ( I do n't mean to start the Mac vs Windows debate , but I will point out that most of my development experience has been on Unix systems , and one reason I like Macs is that I can load the developer tools , pop open a shell , launch Emacs - Aquamacs is an amazing port to the Mac - and be back in my developer comfort zone .
) Oh , and my current job title is " Chief Software Architect " , although I do not draw any distinction between " software architecture " and " system architecture .
" ( A lot of what I see called 'software architecture ' I 'd call 'top-level design' .
) Much of what I know about large scale software-intensive systems architecture is in IEEE Std 1471 : 2000 / ISO/IEC 42010 : 2007 , " Recommended Practice for Architecture Description of Software Intensive Systems " .
I 'm working on the revision of this standard , which among other things generalizes its scope to 'systems ' in general , including software-only systems and even software services .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, I think there is a difference (albeit a bit fuzzy at times) between the kinds of things I've done for my career, most of it very large scale embedded, some real-time, some safety-critical, and what we used to call "Management Information Systems" and now seem to call "IT".
The skill set is a bit different, the tools are most certainly different, the engineering and deployment characteristics are different.In particular, what bothers me is when people hear I do software development, assume "he's an IT guy" and then "can you fix my computer?
"  My answer to that is usually, "No, go buy a Mac.
I don't do Windows.
"  (I don't mean to start the Mac vs Windows debate, but I will point out that most of my development experience has been on Unix systems, and one reason I like Macs is that I can load the developer tools, pop open a shell, launch Emacs - Aquamacs is an amazing port to the Mac - and be back in my developer comfort zone.
)Oh, and my current job title is "Chief Software Architect", although I do not draw any distinction between "software architecture" and "system architecture.
"  (A lot of what I see called 'software architecture' I'd call 'top-level design'.
)  Much of what I know about large scale software-intensive systems architecture is in IEEE Std 1471:2000 / ISO/IEC 42010:2007, "Recommended Practice for Architecture Description of Software Intensive Systems".
I'm working on the revision of this standard, which among other things generalizes its scope to 'systems' in general, including software-only systems and even software services.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260074</id>
	<title>Hrmm</title>
	<author>acehole</author>
	<datestamp>1259493420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In my view of the industry when someone says IT I think of the technical support, admin and sys planning teams. The ones who make the systems work and keep working.</p><p>Programmers and the such, I put in the developers group. Graphic designers, html jockeys or software developers. The ones who make what people see on their desktops look pretty.</p><p>You dont call someone who washes your car and gives it a bit of a polish a mechanic would you?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In my view of the industry when someone says IT I think of the technical support , admin and sys planning teams .
The ones who make the systems work and keep working.Programmers and the such , I put in the developers group .
Graphic designers , html jockeys or software developers .
The ones who make what people see on their desktops look pretty.You dont call someone who washes your car and gives it a bit of a polish a mechanic would you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my view of the industry when someone says IT I think of the technical support, admin and sys planning teams.
The ones who make the systems work and keep working.Programmers and the such, I put in the developers group.
Graphic designers, html jockeys or software developers.
The ones who make what people see on their desktops look pretty.You dont call someone who washes your car and gives it a bit of a polish a mechanic would you?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30266924</id>
	<title>Re:I am a software engineer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259518920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>(Exchange server cant authenticate me for some reason)</p></div></blockquote><p>Bet it's because your password has an apostrophe in it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>( Exchange server cant authenticate me for some reason ) Bet it 's because your password has an apostrophe in it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>(Exchange server cant authenticate me for some reason)Bet it's because your password has an apostrophe in it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262572</id>
	<title>It's not just about labels</title>
	<author>sublimemm</author>
	<datestamp>1259520480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think the medical staff comment earlier really is the best analogy thus far. As also mentioned above, Lawyer/Engineer/Doctor are all too generic to mean that one lawyer may know anything about what a different lawyer does. However, they are not so generic that a lawyer could be confused with a paralegal. A doctor would not be confused with a nurse.

That is the real issue here. By grouping anyone that works with computers into the same label, you could confused a Lawyer (or Software Architect) with a paralegal (Tim, the summer intern that fixes printers). Furthermore, the issue isn't just about labels. The issue is that people who use those labels assume that anyone in "IT" can fix their printer. That is the problem, IMHO. I can't (or won't) fix your printer or your email.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think the medical staff comment earlier really is the best analogy thus far .
As also mentioned above , Lawyer/Engineer/Doctor are all too generic to mean that one lawyer may know anything about what a different lawyer does .
However , they are not so generic that a lawyer could be confused with a paralegal .
A doctor would not be confused with a nurse .
That is the real issue here .
By grouping anyone that works with computers into the same label , you could confused a Lawyer ( or Software Architect ) with a paralegal ( Tim , the summer intern that fixes printers ) .
Furthermore , the issue is n't just about labels .
The issue is that people who use those labels assume that anyone in " IT " can fix their printer .
That is the problem , IMHO .
I ca n't ( or wo n't ) fix your printer or your email .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think the medical staff comment earlier really is the best analogy thus far.
As also mentioned above, Lawyer/Engineer/Doctor are all too generic to mean that one lawyer may know anything about what a different lawyer does.
However, they are not so generic that a lawyer could be confused with a paralegal.
A doctor would not be confused with a nurse.
That is the real issue here.
By grouping anyone that works with computers into the same label, you could confused a Lawyer (or Software Architect) with a paralegal (Tim, the summer intern that fixes printers).
Furthermore, the issue isn't just about labels.
The issue is that people who use those labels assume that anyone in "IT" can fix their printer.
That is the problem, IMHO.
I can't (or won't) fix your printer or your email.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262598</id>
	<title>Man who installs hard drives != engineer</title>
	<author>mcalwell</author>
	<datestamp>1259520660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I remember once sitting opposite a guy in the office who installed windows and repaired desktops. A nice enough guy. One day we were talking about career plans and he said "I'm probably going to do something else soon. I don't want to be an engineer all my life".</htmltext>
<tokenext>I remember once sitting opposite a guy in the office who installed windows and repaired desktops .
A nice enough guy .
One day we were talking about career plans and he said " I 'm probably going to do something else soon .
I do n't want to be an engineer all my life " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I remember once sitting opposite a guy in the office who installed windows and repaired desktops.
A nice enough guy.
One day we were talking about career plans and he said "I'm probably going to do something else soon.
I don't want to be an engineer all my life".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30267346</id>
	<title>Depends</title>
	<author>mahadiga</author>
	<datestamp>1259522820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Depends on what you're <b>selling</b>?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Depends on what you 're selling ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Depends on what you're selling?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260780</id>
	<title>Yes of course I do...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259503560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...I am an IT girl, you insensitive clod...<br>...and I do miss something like the "BSD chick" in the Linux world.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...I am an IT girl , you insensitive clod......and I do miss something like the " BSD chick " in the Linux world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...I am an IT girl, you insensitive clod......and I do miss something like the "BSD chick" in the Linux world.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264808</id>
	<title>Re:I am a software engineer</title>
	<author>Buelldozer</author>
	<datestamp>1259499000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In the FF 1.x series there was an update that broke its ability to authenticate with Exchange. I forget the numbers but it happened all the same. I was able to logon to OWA until I updated. It's possible that their Tier 2/3 guy was trying to help you. He may have logged onto OWA with your credentials using another browser and found that it worked correctly. That left him with: 1) You're a typical Luser and can't remember or type your password, 2) FF is suddenly incompatible with Exchange, 3) Your system is jacked up and needs a reboot.</p><p>If I had a dollar for every time I've proven that a "power user" like yourself was the cause of your own trouble I could probably retire by now. Most of you are far more headache than you'd believe and know far less than you think you do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In the FF 1.x series there was an update that broke its ability to authenticate with Exchange .
I forget the numbers but it happened all the same .
I was able to logon to OWA until I updated .
It 's possible that their Tier 2/3 guy was trying to help you .
He may have logged onto OWA with your credentials using another browser and found that it worked correctly .
That left him with : 1 ) You 're a typical Luser and ca n't remember or type your password , 2 ) FF is suddenly incompatible with Exchange , 3 ) Your system is jacked up and needs a reboot.If I had a dollar for every time I 've proven that a " power user " like yourself was the cause of your own trouble I could probably retire by now .
Most of you are far more headache than you 'd believe and know far less than you think you do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the FF 1.x series there was an update that broke its ability to authenticate with Exchange.
I forget the numbers but it happened all the same.
I was able to logon to OWA until I updated.
It's possible that their Tier 2/3 guy was trying to help you.
He may have logged onto OWA with your credentials using another browser and found that it worked correctly.
That left him with: 1) You're a typical Luser and can't remember or type your password, 2) FF is suddenly incompatible with Exchange, 3) Your system is jacked up and needs a reboot.If I had a dollar for every time I've proven that a "power user" like yourself was the cause of your own trouble I could probably retire by now.
Most of you are far more headache than you'd believe and know far less than you think you do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260102</id>
	<title>Information Technology (IT)</title>
	<author>mysidia</author>
	<datestamp>1259493840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information\_technology#cite\_note-0" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">Information technology</a> [wikipedia.org] (IT), as defined by the Information Technology Association of America (ITAA), is "the study, design, development, implementation, support or management of computer-based information systems, particularly software applications and computer hardware."<br> <br>
IT deals with the use of electronic computers and computer software to convert, store, protect, process, transmit, and securely retrieve information.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
You <b>ARE</b> in IT.
</p><p>
However, it's the equivalent of calling a Brain surgeon a <b>Doctor</b>
</p><p>
Or referring to a <b>Nuclear physicist</b> as a <b>scientist</b>.
</p><p>
It is kind of vague.   Sometimes being more specific is good, as it points out people's specialty more.
</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Information technology [ wikipedia.org ] ( IT ) , as defined by the Information Technology Association of America ( ITAA ) , is " the study , design , development , implementation , support or management of computer-based information systems , particularly software applications and computer hardware .
" IT deals with the use of electronic computers and computer software to convert , store , protect , process , transmit , and securely retrieve information .
You ARE in IT .
However , it 's the equivalent of calling a Brain surgeon a Doctor Or referring to a Nuclear physicist as a scientist .
It is kind of vague .
Sometimes being more specific is good , as it points out people 's specialty more .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Information technology [wikipedia.org] (IT), as defined by the Information Technology Association of America (ITAA), is "the study, design, development, implementation, support or management of computer-based information systems, particularly software applications and computer hardware.
" 
IT deals with the use of electronic computers and computer software to convert, store, protect, process, transmit, and securely retrieve information.
You ARE in IT.
However, it's the equivalent of calling a Brain surgeon a Doctor

Or referring to a Nuclear physicist as a scientist.
It is kind of vague.
Sometimes being more specific is good, as it points out people's specialty more.

	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264574</id>
	<title>Re:I'm not an "IT guy".</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259496780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm an IT guy.. and I majored in English.</p><p>WHAT NOW JCR?!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm an IT guy.. and I majored in English.WHAT NOW JCR ?
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm an IT guy.. and I majored in English.WHAT NOW JCR?
!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260056</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260960</id>
	<title>Re:Quality Control</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259505780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I liked being called "Central Services". If people understood the reference to "Brazil", they were people we wanted to work with. And if this helped them understood that their saying "I know computers!" and climbing into the ceiling tiles to muck with the network wiring would lead to us filling their cubicle with the outflow of the nearest bathroom cubicle, it helped prevent even more misunderstandings.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I liked being called " Central Services " .
If people understood the reference to " Brazil " , they were people we wanted to work with .
And if this helped them understood that their saying " I know computers !
" and climbing into the ceiling tiles to muck with the network wiring would lead to us filling their cubicle with the outflow of the nearest bathroom cubicle , it helped prevent even more misunderstandings .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I liked being called "Central Services".
If people understood the reference to "Brazil", they were people we wanted to work with.
And if this helped them understood that their saying "I know computers!
" and climbing into the ceiling tiles to muck with the network wiring would lead to us filling their cubicle with the outflow of the nearest bathroom cubicle, it helped prevent even more misunderstandings.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260076</id>
	<title>I'll let you</title>
	<author>OverlordQ</author>
	<datestamp>1259493420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>call me Sue if you'll give me a job.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>call me Sue if you 'll give me a job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>call me Sue if you'll give me a job.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263318</id>
	<title>You first</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259527800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are you going to refer to other departments in the same manner? Are you going to start calling people pay clerks, recruitment managers and pension advisers, or will you simply keep referring to the multitude of different disciplines involved there as HR? To most of us, these jobs appear as interchangeable as DB admin and developer do to the uninformed - but its just as insulting to them when we do it wrong.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are you going to refer to other departments in the same manner ?
Are you going to start calling people pay clerks , recruitment managers and pension advisers , or will you simply keep referring to the multitude of different disciplines involved there as HR ?
To most of us , these jobs appear as interchangeable as DB admin and developer do to the uninformed - but its just as insulting to them when we do it wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are you going to refer to other departments in the same manner?
Are you going to start calling people pay clerks, recruitment managers and pension advisers, or will you simply keep referring to the multitude of different disciplines involved there as HR?
To most of us, these jobs appear as interchangeable as DB admin and developer do to the uninformed - but its just as insulting to them when we do it wrong.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264386</id>
	<title>new name for a old job</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259495040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>so you want to be a custodial engineer or a waste management specialist?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>so you want to be a custodial engineer or a waste management specialist ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>so you want to be a custodial engineer or a waste management specialist?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260224</id>
	<title>Cost center</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259495760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>IT is a cost center. That's the reason sales/business (profit/revenue centers) related position get more respect and status. So you can call IT something else, but it won't change anything.</p><p>IT only supports the business where money is made.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>IT is a cost center .
That 's the reason sales/business ( profit/revenue centers ) related position get more respect and status .
So you can call IT something else , but it wo n't change anything.IT only supports the business where money is made .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IT is a cost center.
That's the reason sales/business (profit/revenue centers) related position get more respect and status.
So you can call IT something else, but it won't change anything.IT only supports the business where money is made.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263522</id>
	<title>ignorance saves them money</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259486400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Its the way of poor management, to keep low retainers to all, no matter their expertise.<br>I simply refuse those customers, although they are the majority.</p><p>drbin</p><p>ps: I'm stuck with a lot of (L)users though, but thats another story</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Its the way of poor management , to keep low retainers to all , no matter their expertise.I simply refuse those customers , although they are the majority.drbinps : I 'm stuck with a lot of ( L ) users though , but thats another story</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its the way of poor management, to keep low retainers to all, no matter their expertise.I simply refuse those customers, although they are the majority.drbinps: I'm stuck with a lot of (L)users though, but thats another story</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260412</id>
	<title>Deptartment</title>
	<author>Arancaytar</author>
	<datestamp>1259499180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One thing is certain: Referring to any group as a deptartment (or worse, a deptardment) will not win favor with anyone, top-tier talent or not.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One thing is certain : Referring to any group as a deptartment ( or worse , a deptardment ) will not win favor with anyone , top-tier talent or not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One thing is certain: Referring to any group as a deptartment (or worse, a deptardment) will not win favor with anyone, top-tier talent or not.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260838</id>
	<title>Re:I don't work in IT, but....</title>
	<author>Registered Coward v2</author>
	<datestamp>1259504460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It drove me nuts being in college and meeting "IT" majors. I would ask them questions like what they like to program in or what kind of Linux they use, but anything I asked beyond the technical skills required to setup a standard home Linksys router was met with a blank stare and an explanation of how good they are with anti-virus and firewalls. It made me wonder why as an aviation major I knew ten times more than any IT major I ever met.</p></div><p>Well, you probably new more about basic aeronautics, because (and this is just a wild ass guess) your life depended on it?  Little things, like why aircraft stall, can play a big role in your ability to maintain coordinated flight. As a result, most aviation majors learn a bit about the fundamentals of flight even though they are by no means aeronautical engineers.</p><p> Similarly, aeros know why a plane flys but can't just jump into the right seat and fly.  Takeoff, maybe, but then again any idiot can takeoff.  Landing is a whole different matter.  An aero attempting to fly would quickly gain practical experience in  the four fundamental forces involved in flight (stall, spin, crash, and burn); just as an aviator trying to design their own plane would learn why you don't use rectangular windows in an aircraft.  (see Comet). </p><p> Skill sets are learned based on a perceived need and value.As a side note, did you have a bigger watch as well?  With a cool circular slide rule?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It drove me nuts being in college and meeting " IT " majors .
I would ask them questions like what they like to program in or what kind of Linux they use , but anything I asked beyond the technical skills required to setup a standard home Linksys router was met with a blank stare and an explanation of how good they are with anti-virus and firewalls .
It made me wonder why as an aviation major I knew ten times more than any IT major I ever met.Well , you probably new more about basic aeronautics , because ( and this is just a wild ass guess ) your life depended on it ?
Little things , like why aircraft stall , can play a big role in your ability to maintain coordinated flight .
As a result , most aviation majors learn a bit about the fundamentals of flight even though they are by no means aeronautical engineers .
Similarly , aeros know why a plane flys but ca n't just jump into the right seat and fly .
Takeoff , maybe , but then again any idiot can takeoff .
Landing is a whole different matter .
An aero attempting to fly would quickly gain practical experience in the four fundamental forces involved in flight ( stall , spin , crash , and burn ) ; just as an aviator trying to design their own plane would learn why you do n't use rectangular windows in an aircraft .
( see Comet ) .
Skill sets are learned based on a perceived need and value.As a side note , did you have a bigger watch as well ?
With a cool circular slide rule ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It drove me nuts being in college and meeting "IT" majors.
I would ask them questions like what they like to program in or what kind of Linux they use, but anything I asked beyond the technical skills required to setup a standard home Linksys router was met with a blank stare and an explanation of how good they are with anti-virus and firewalls.
It made me wonder why as an aviation major I knew ten times more than any IT major I ever met.Well, you probably new more about basic aeronautics, because (and this is just a wild ass guess) your life depended on it?
Little things, like why aircraft stall, can play a big role in your ability to maintain coordinated flight.
As a result, most aviation majors learn a bit about the fundamentals of flight even though they are by no means aeronautical engineers.
Similarly, aeros know why a plane flys but can't just jump into the right seat and fly.
Takeoff, maybe, but then again any idiot can takeoff.
Landing is a whole different matter.
An aero attempting to fly would quickly gain practical experience in  the four fundamental forces involved in flight (stall, spin, crash, and burn); just as an aviator trying to design their own plane would learn why you don't use rectangular windows in an aircraft.
(see Comet).
Skill sets are learned based on a perceived need and value.As a side note, did you have a bigger watch as well?
With a cool circular slide rule?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260438</id>
	<title>CS vs IT</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259499420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Internet Technology is to Computer Science as Lab Assistant is to Scientist.</p><p>Especially if you have a masters or Ph.D in CS rather than a 2 year degree in 'IT', you should not settle for being called an IT Guy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Internet Technology is to Computer Science as Lab Assistant is to Scientist.Especially if you have a masters or Ph.D in CS rather than a 2 year degree in 'IT ' , you should not settle for being called an IT Guy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Internet Technology is to Computer Science as Lab Assistant is to Scientist.Especially if you have a masters or Ph.D in CS rather than a 2 year degree in 'IT', you should not settle for being called an IT Guy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260042</id>
	<title>Grammar Nazi to the Rescue!</title>
	<author>Phat\_Tony</author>
	<datestamp>1259493120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't think you're going to help attract a lot of talented engineers by changing the nomenclature to the "'Engineering Deptartment."<br> <br>

That aside, I think "Software Engineer," "Software Architect," "Analyst," "Lead Developer," and such are common titles for people who are creating things with software, as opposed to "IT's" tech-support implications.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think you 're going to help attract a lot of talented engineers by changing the nomenclature to the " 'Engineering Deptartment .
" That aside , I think " Software Engineer , " " Software Architect , " " Analyst , " " Lead Developer , " and such are common titles for people who are creating things with software , as opposed to " IT 's " tech-support implications .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think you're going to help attract a lot of talented engineers by changing the nomenclature to the "'Engineering Deptartment.
" 

That aside, I think "Software Engineer," "Software Architect," "Analyst," "Lead Developer," and such are common titles for people who are creating things with software, as opposed to "IT's" tech-support implications.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260308</id>
	<title>IT Guy ?</title>
	<author>erica\_ann</author>
	<datestamp>1259497200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>yup, specially when the client realizes I am a woman, not a guy<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>yup , specially when the client realizes I am a woman , not a guy : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>yup, specially when the client realizes I am a woman, not a guy :)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30320760</id>
	<title>Re:Information Technology (IT)</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259860200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The self made definition of the ITAA is hardly the benchmark for measurement of the correctness of calling Software Developers "IT".  They have a vested interest in building their own credibility by including those with advanced skills (programming) into their world of nominal skills (help desk).</p><p>Yes, I know that this sounds extremely elitist, but here is the deal.....</p><p>1) Programming requires much more time / education / ability than plugging in a new hard drive</p><p>2) I can do anything that the Help Desk People do, but the opposite is not true.</p><p>I worked hard to get where I am and feel demeaned by being called "IT".  This is probably due to the fact that I have worked for large companies that had an R &amp; D development staff which was completely separate from the IT Help Desk.  Now that I am in a small company and manage both of these types of activities, it truly grates on me that we are referred to by the "lowest common denominator" title of "IT".</p><p>The way that I "make it through the day" without this bugging me is to remember the words:</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "Only a fool takes offense when none was intended."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The self made definition of the ITAA is hardly the benchmark for measurement of the correctness of calling Software Developers " IT " .
They have a vested interest in building their own credibility by including those with advanced skills ( programming ) into their world of nominal skills ( help desk ) .Yes , I know that this sounds extremely elitist , but here is the deal.....1 ) Programming requires much more time / education / ability than plugging in a new hard drive2 ) I can do anything that the Help Desk People do , but the opposite is not true.I worked hard to get where I am and feel demeaned by being called " IT " .
This is probably due to the fact that I have worked for large companies that had an R &amp; D development staff which was completely separate from the IT Help Desk .
Now that I am in a small company and manage both of these types of activities , it truly grates on me that we are referred to by the " lowest common denominator " title of " IT " .The way that I " make it through the day " without this bugging me is to remember the words :       " Only a fool takes offense when none was intended .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The self made definition of the ITAA is hardly the benchmark for measurement of the correctness of calling Software Developers "IT".
They have a vested interest in building their own credibility by including those with advanced skills (programming) into their world of nominal skills (help desk).Yes, I know that this sounds extremely elitist, but here is the deal.....1) Programming requires much more time / education / ability than plugging in a new hard drive2) I can do anything that the Help Desk People do, but the opposite is not true.I worked hard to get where I am and feel demeaned by being called "IT".
This is probably due to the fact that I have worked for large companies that had an R &amp; D development staff which was completely separate from the IT Help Desk.
Now that I am in a small company and manage both of these types of activities, it truly grates on me that we are referred to by the "lowest common denominator" title of "IT".The way that I "make it through the day" without this bugging me is to remember the words:
      "Only a fool takes offense when none was intended.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260102</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263334</id>
	<title>Why are you even considering taking this job?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259527980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I'm looking at a tech management job at a content company that is trying to become a software company, and they refer to everything about software development, data center operations, and desktop support as 'IT.'</p></div><p>Ok, so since they can't even get the terminology close to correct, what chance do you think this outfit has in "trying to become a software company"?  Right: exactly zero.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>I'd like to tell the CEO before I take the job that we have to stop referring to all these people as 'IT people' or I'm not going to be able to attract and retain the top-tier talent that is required.</p></div><p>Why do you think the CEO would care?  Hell, they're just "IT people"!  India's loaded with them, just contract a few dozen!</p><p>No, tell the CEO the above before you <b> turn down </b> the job.  That company is clearly going nowhere that you want to be.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm looking at a tech management job at a content company that is trying to become a software company , and they refer to everything about software development , data center operations , and desktop support as 'IT .
'Ok , so since they ca n't even get the terminology close to correct , what chance do you think this outfit has in " trying to become a software company " ?
Right : exactly zero.I 'd like to tell the CEO before I take the job that we have to stop referring to all these people as 'IT people ' or I 'm not going to be able to attract and retain the top-tier talent that is required.Why do you think the CEO would care ?
Hell , they 're just " IT people " !
India 's loaded with them , just contract a few dozen ! No , tell the CEO the above before you turn down the job .
That company is clearly going nowhere that you want to be .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm looking at a tech management job at a content company that is trying to become a software company, and they refer to everything about software development, data center operations, and desktop support as 'IT.
'Ok, so since they can't even get the terminology close to correct, what chance do you think this outfit has in "trying to become a software company"?
Right: exactly zero.I'd like to tell the CEO before I take the job that we have to stop referring to all these people as 'IT people' or I'm not going to be able to attract and retain the top-tier talent that is required.Why do you think the CEO would care?
Hell, they're just "IT people"!
India's loaded with them, just contract a few dozen!No, tell the CEO the above before you  turn down  the job.
That company is clearly going nowhere that you want to be.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260512</id>
	<title>Re:I'll let you</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259500380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's not what "Sue me" means.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's not what " Sue me " means .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's not what "Sue me" means.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260366</id>
	<title>Re:I am a software engineer</title>
	<author>Antiocheian</author>
	<datestamp>1259498580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Does the word WANKER have anything to do with WAN latency ?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does the word WANKER have anything to do with WAN latency ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does the word WANKER have anything to do with WAN latency ?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261998</id>
	<title>In many areas you cannot use the term "Engineer"</title>
	<author>gavving</author>
	<datestamp>1259515980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For almost 20 years I've used the term "Engineer" associated with some other term as my job title.  But recently I found out that this is not legal in the state of Oklahoma and in many other places across the world.  The term Engineer and Engineering is reserved for those with specific Engineering training, degrees, and licenses.  Wiki details some of this: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>My place of business recently had legal notice that it had to cease using the terms "Network Engineer", "Director of Engineering", "Software Engineer", etc.  The board that sent this is State Board of Licensure for Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors, <a href="http://www.ok.gov/pels/" title="ok.gov" rel="nofollow">http://www.ok.gov/pels/</a> [ok.gov] and by state law they have the right to stop anyone from using the term Engineer if they are not licensed correctly.</p><p>Also I saw someone say they used the term "Software Architect", "Architect" is also a legally protected title in many places.</p><p>So now I'm a Consultant.... I've sent a letter to my legislators to complain about the boards actions as I feel that the term "Engineer" has become associated with someone who has a general area of expertise, not someone who has a specific license.  But I doubt it will have any effect.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:(</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For almost 20 years I 've used the term " Engineer " associated with some other term as my job title .
But recently I found out that this is not legal in the state of Oklahoma and in many other places across the world .
The term Engineer and Engineering is reserved for those with specific Engineering training , degrees , and licenses .
Wiki details some of this : http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer [ wikipedia.org ] My place of business recently had legal notice that it had to cease using the terms " Network Engineer " , " Director of Engineering " , " Software Engineer " , etc .
The board that sent this is State Board of Licensure for Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors , http : //www.ok.gov/pels/ [ ok.gov ] and by state law they have the right to stop anyone from using the term Engineer if they are not licensed correctly.Also I saw someone say they used the term " Software Architect " , " Architect " is also a legally protected title in many places.So now I 'm a Consultant.... I 've sent a letter to my legislators to complain about the boards actions as I feel that the term " Engineer " has become associated with someone who has a general area of expertise , not someone who has a specific license .
But I doubt it will have any effect .
: (</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For almost 20 years I've used the term "Engineer" associated with some other term as my job title.
But recently I found out that this is not legal in the state of Oklahoma and in many other places across the world.
The term Engineer and Engineering is reserved for those with specific Engineering training, degrees, and licenses.
Wiki details some of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer [wikipedia.org]My place of business recently had legal notice that it had to cease using the terms "Network Engineer", "Director of Engineering", "Software Engineer", etc.
The board that sent this is State Board of Licensure for Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors, http://www.ok.gov/pels/ [ok.gov] and by state law they have the right to stop anyone from using the term Engineer if they are not licensed correctly.Also I saw someone say they used the term "Software Architect", "Architect" is also a legally protected title in many places.So now I'm a Consultant.... I've sent a letter to my legislators to complain about the boards actions as I feel that the term "Engineer" has become associated with someone who has a general area of expertise, not someone who has a specific license.
But I doubt it will have any effect.
:(</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261600</id>
	<title>Re:Self-important Douchebag</title>
	<author>hey!</author>
	<datestamp>1259512260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ha!  You call *him* self-important?</p><p>Well you could have called me King of Computing; Lord Protector of Communication Infrastructure; Suzerein of Anything That Might Break; and Keeper of the Secret of  Setting Digital Watches.</p><p>I'd have answered to Patron Saint of Lost Files or The Last Best Hope of the Desperate  Cubicle Dwellers.</p><p>I don't play that role any longer, but when I did, I had no doubt I was important to *other* people.  They turned to me when they were in doubt or trouble, and I  and I sent them away feeling like they had some control over their lives.  I kept things running smoothly, and when somebody did something really stupid I helped them get back on track.</p><p>Now doing those things made me feel pretty damned important.     I could be proud, sometimes even arrogant, but I knew my business and took it seriously.  I made the people I worked with see my job as important too, *and that made them happier customers.*</p><p>Any young guy in the business who does his job well is entitled to pat himself on the back, because people don't give the IT guy respect just because he deserves it as a human being.  Oh, no. Left to their own devices, they'll see him as an extension of the machines they work with and treat him accordingly.   You've got to understand for most people that means abusing the machinery.</p><p>You've got to establish a zone of respect around yourself so you can do your job.  You've got to be mentally tough.   You deal with a lot of angry, pissed off people, and beneath that anger is the customer's fear of failure, guilt over lousy planning, and shame over not knowing how everything works.  You've got to project confidence and self-respect, otherwise when you need the people you work with to act rationally, they won't.</p><p>And you've got to exact respect from people.   When you *do* not only *you* will be happier, your *customers* are happier too.  Nobody wants to rely on somebody they don't respect.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ha !
You call * him * self-important ? Well you could have called me King of Computing ; Lord Protector of Communication Infrastructure ; Suzerein of Anything That Might Break ; and Keeper of the Secret of Setting Digital Watches.I 'd have answered to Patron Saint of Lost Files or The Last Best Hope of the Desperate Cubicle Dwellers.I do n't play that role any longer , but when I did , I had no doubt I was important to * other * people .
They turned to me when they were in doubt or trouble , and I and I sent them away feeling like they had some control over their lives .
I kept things running smoothly , and when somebody did something really stupid I helped them get back on track.Now doing those things made me feel pretty damned important .
I could be proud , sometimes even arrogant , but I knew my business and took it seriously .
I made the people I worked with see my job as important too , * and that made them happier customers .
* Any young guy in the business who does his job well is entitled to pat himself on the back , because people do n't give the IT guy respect just because he deserves it as a human being .
Oh , no .
Left to their own devices , they 'll see him as an extension of the machines they work with and treat him accordingly .
You 've got to understand for most people that means abusing the machinery.You 've got to establish a zone of respect around yourself so you can do your job .
You 've got to be mentally tough .
You deal with a lot of angry , pissed off people , and beneath that anger is the customer 's fear of failure , guilt over lousy planning , and shame over not knowing how everything works .
You 've got to project confidence and self-respect , otherwise when you need the people you work with to act rationally , they wo n't.And you 've got to exact respect from people .
When you * do * not only * you * will be happier , your * customers * are happier too .
Nobody wants to rely on somebody they do n't respect .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ha!
You call *him* self-important?Well you could have called me King of Computing; Lord Protector of Communication Infrastructure; Suzerein of Anything That Might Break; and Keeper of the Secret of  Setting Digital Watches.I'd have answered to Patron Saint of Lost Files or The Last Best Hope of the Desperate  Cubicle Dwellers.I don't play that role any longer, but when I did, I had no doubt I was important to *other* people.
They turned to me when they were in doubt or trouble, and I  and I sent them away feeling like they had some control over their lives.
I kept things running smoothly, and when somebody did something really stupid I helped them get back on track.Now doing those things made me feel pretty damned important.
I could be proud, sometimes even arrogant, but I knew my business and took it seriously.
I made the people I worked with see my job as important too, *and that made them happier customers.
*Any young guy in the business who does his job well is entitled to pat himself on the back, because people don't give the IT guy respect just because he deserves it as a human being.
Oh, no.
Left to their own devices, they'll see him as an extension of the machines they work with and treat him accordingly.
You've got to understand for most people that means abusing the machinery.You've got to establish a zone of respect around yourself so you can do your job.
You've got to be mentally tough.
You deal with a lot of angry, pissed off people, and beneath that anger is the customer's fear of failure, guilt over lousy planning, and shame over not knowing how everything works.
You've got to project confidence and self-respect, otherwise when you need the people you work with to act rationally, they won't.And you've got to exact respect from people.
When you *do* not only *you* will be happier, your *customers* are happier too.
Nobody wants to rely on somebody they don't respect.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260180</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261108</id>
	<title>Yes, I Do!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259507520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, I do hate being called an IT person. I left my software engineering career, which I really loved, just not to be called an IT person either within the company or by the public.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , I do hate being called an IT person .
I left my software engineering career , which I really loved , just not to be called an IT person either within the company or by the public .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, I do hate being called an IT person.
I left my software engineering career, which I really loved, just not to be called an IT person either within the company or by the public.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260596</id>
	<title>Don't work for a non-software firm</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259501160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You'll always be a second class citizen as you're not the rainmaker.</p><p>I realize you said that it was a content company trying to become a software one but they won't.  They'll always be a content provider.  Not that there's anything wrong with that, but if you want to be called a non-IT person with that company they should spin off the software side.</p><p>Any other comment about "your ego shouldn't depend on titles!!1!" or the such should be ignored as they aren't addressing this fundamental problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 'll always be a second class citizen as you 're not the rainmaker.I realize you said that it was a content company trying to become a software one but they wo n't .
They 'll always be a content provider .
Not that there 's anything wrong with that , but if you want to be called a non-IT person with that company they should spin off the software side.Any other comment about " your ego should n't depend on titles ! ! 1 !
" or the such should be ignored as they are n't addressing this fundamental problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You'll always be a second class citizen as you're not the rainmaker.I realize you said that it was a content company trying to become a software one but they won't.
They'll always be a content provider.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, but if you want to be called a non-IT person with that company they should spin off the software side.Any other comment about "your ego shouldn't depend on titles!!1!
" or the such should be ignored as they aren't addressing this fundamental problem.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260812</id>
	<title>Windoze</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259504100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hey, Mr. Head of Software Related Product Development Tech Division, I was that guy fixing Windoze for 2 years, and I'll tell you what: The guy dealing with the annoying customers and clients? Yeah, he hates being called the IT guy too. Get off your horse unless your willing to look at others in different lights as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey , Mr. Head of Software Related Product Development Tech Division , I was that guy fixing Windoze for 2 years , and I 'll tell you what : The guy dealing with the annoying customers and clients ?
Yeah , he hates being called the IT guy too .
Get off your horse unless your willing to look at others in different lights as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey, Mr. Head of Software Related Product Development Tech Division, I was that guy fixing Windoze for 2 years, and I'll tell you what: The guy dealing with the annoying customers and clients?
Yeah, he hates being called the IT guy too.
Get off your horse unless your willing to look at others in different lights as well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261314</id>
	<title>Dilbert</title>
	<author>rajats</author>
	<datestamp>1259509440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Better than being called Dilbert.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Better than being called Dilbert .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Better than being called Dilbert.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263016</id>
	<title>Stop being pretentious and get over IT</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259524680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My first IT job was as a basic programmer on the TRS-80 back in the 80's when I was a kid (unique situation where the grown ups had no idea what to do with it but the company thought they needed to do inventory on a computer).  Since then I have been called a Web programmer, router jockey, network engineer, NTAC, consultant, etc...  The most offensive to me is Engineer, not for me but for those that really are engineers, I have no engineering degree and dont operate locomotives so I qualify for neither.  I work in IT, I do alot of things.  IT changes so often that there is no box to really put into it as a title description.  IT Person works just fine.</p><p>I've really never understood the obsession with cool titles, I have worked with others who thought they had to have some goofy title as if it somehow made them royalty.  As long as you get a paycheck and are treated with a fair amount of dignity does it really matter?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My first IT job was as a basic programmer on the TRS-80 back in the 80 's when I was a kid ( unique situation where the grown ups had no idea what to do with it but the company thought they needed to do inventory on a computer ) .
Since then I have been called a Web programmer , router jockey , network engineer , NTAC , consultant , etc... The most offensive to me is Engineer , not for me but for those that really are engineers , I have no engineering degree and dont operate locomotives so I qualify for neither .
I work in IT , I do alot of things .
IT changes so often that there is no box to really put into it as a title description .
IT Person works just fine.I 've really never understood the obsession with cool titles , I have worked with others who thought they had to have some goofy title as if it somehow made them royalty .
As long as you get a paycheck and are treated with a fair amount of dignity does it really matter ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My first IT job was as a basic programmer on the TRS-80 back in the 80's when I was a kid (unique situation where the grown ups had no idea what to do with it but the company thought they needed to do inventory on a computer).
Since then I have been called a Web programmer, router jockey, network engineer, NTAC, consultant, etc...  The most offensive to me is Engineer, not for me but for those that really are engineers, I have no engineering degree and dont operate locomotives so I qualify for neither.
I work in IT, I do alot of things.
IT changes so often that there is no box to really put into it as a title description.
IT Person works just fine.I've really never understood the obsession with cool titles, I have worked with others who thought they had to have some goofy title as if it somehow made them royalty.
As long as you get a paycheck and are treated with a fair amount of dignity does it really matter?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30265482</id>
	<title>Title hilarity</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259507100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you're working for someone named "vice president, IT" or "IT Manager", you're an IT Guy.</p><p>Senior management doesnt give a crap about what you want to call yourself, nor the title differentiation between the guy that vacuums keyboards and the one that designs high end systems.</p><p>If anyone you work with or are affiliated with needs to look at your title to figure out if you're a moron or a brainiac, you already did it wrong.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're working for someone named " vice president , IT " or " IT Manager " , you 're an IT Guy.Senior management doesnt give a crap about what you want to call yourself , nor the title differentiation between the guy that vacuums keyboards and the one that designs high end systems.If anyone you work with or are affiliated with needs to look at your title to figure out if you 're a moron or a brainiac , you already did it wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're working for someone named "vice president, IT" or "IT Manager", you're an IT Guy.Senior management doesnt give a crap about what you want to call yourself, nor the title differentiation between the guy that vacuums keyboards and the one that designs high end systems.If anyone you work with or are affiliated with needs to look at your title to figure out if you're a moron or a brainiac, you already did it wrong.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30271136</id>
	<title>IT Guy and Proud of it</title>
	<author>ATLHivemind</author>
	<datestamp>1259603520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>By title, I'm a "Systems Engineer" in reality, I'm an IT grunt.<br>I'm a hardware guy, a printer repairman, a cabling guy, DBA, developer, Windows Server Administrator, Linux sysadmin, helpdesk monkey, VOIP guru etc etc.</p><p>I like my title, it beats the hell out of "consultant"<br>I don't have to worry about dealing with stuck-up business types who gawk at a $200 repair bill for a $200 system.<br>I don't have to worry about marketing, HR or any other business related schlock.<br>I don't have to deal with retarded lusers who wonder why their system gets hosed after visiting questionable web sites and don't want to pay me $70/hr to fix it.</p><p>I'll take it where I can get it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>By title , I 'm a " Systems Engineer " in reality , I 'm an IT grunt.I 'm a hardware guy , a printer repairman , a cabling guy , DBA , developer , Windows Server Administrator , Linux sysadmin , helpdesk monkey , VOIP guru etc etc.I like my title , it beats the hell out of " consultant " I do n't have to worry about dealing with stuck-up business types who gawk at a $ 200 repair bill for a $ 200 system.I do n't have to worry about marketing , HR or any other business related schlock.I do n't have to deal with retarded lusers who wonder why their system gets hosed after visiting questionable web sites and do n't want to pay me $ 70/hr to fix it.I 'll take it where I can get it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>By title, I'm a "Systems Engineer" in reality, I'm an IT grunt.I'm a hardware guy, a printer repairman, a cabling guy, DBA, developer, Windows Server Administrator, Linux sysadmin, helpdesk monkey, VOIP guru etc etc.I like my title, it beats the hell out of "consultant"I don't have to worry about dealing with stuck-up business types who gawk at a $200 repair bill for a $200 system.I don't have to worry about marketing, HR or any other business related schlock.I don't have to deal with retarded lusers who wonder why their system gets hosed after visiting questionable web sites and don't want to pay me $70/hr to fix it.I'll take it where I can get it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260128</id>
	<title>"Chief Wizard"</title>
	<author>davidbrucehughes</author>
	<datestamp>1259494260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or you can title yourself Chief Sorcerer, then your reports will be Sorcerers, their reports will be the Sorcerer's Apprentices, etc. I too remember the good old days, heh.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or you can title yourself Chief Sorcerer , then your reports will be Sorcerers , their reports will be the Sorcerer 's Apprentices , etc .
I too remember the good old days , heh .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or you can title yourself Chief Sorcerer, then your reports will be Sorcerers, their reports will be the Sorcerer's Apprentices, etc.
I too remember the good old days, heh.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261348</id>
	<title>Re:What about 'Tech Mage'?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259509740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I like those, but Whiny Dickhead sounds more appropriate for the submitter. More talk = less work is probably his motto.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I like those , but Whiny Dickhead sounds more appropriate for the submitter .
More talk = less work is probably his motto .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I like those, but Whiny Dickhead sounds more appropriate for the submitter.
More talk = less work is probably his motto.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260118</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261642</id>
	<title>stick and stones</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259512860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>there are marketing people, finance people, HR people, IT people, executive staff, etc.</p><p>so what?</p><p>As long as my check reflects my "Director of MIS" position (and the executive staff are aware of my talents) then day to day shorthand as "the IT guy" doesn't bother men, I've never looked at it as a snub.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>there are marketing people , finance people , HR people , IT people , executive staff , etc.so what ? As long as my check reflects my " Director of MIS " position ( and the executive staff are aware of my talents ) then day to day shorthand as " the IT guy " does n't bother men , I 've never looked at it as a snub .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>there are marketing people, finance people, HR people, IT people, executive staff, etc.so what?As long as my check reflects my "Director of MIS" position (and the executive staff are aware of my talents) then day to day shorthand as "the IT guy" doesn't bother men, I've never looked at it as a snub.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261008</id>
	<title>I don't like it</title>
	<author>NoYob</author>
	<datestamp>1259506380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Worse still is "He knows computers". <p>I hear so often when I'm looking for work that so and so is in IT and maybe I should send them my resume - I'd be a shoe in. When I ask exactly what they do, the response is a condescending "He and his company are  in computers!"</p><p>Then I have to explain, if someone was a nurse, would you say they were in medical? Or how about a doctor? No. You would say they were a nurse or doctor. Saying someone is in "medical" could mean they're a x-ray tech, lab tech, housekeeper, janitor, medical office accountant, EMT, ambulance driver, etc.., etc...</p><p>Or I'll mention how someone in food service could be a restaurant owner, chef, or the bus boy.  </p><p>Oy!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Worse still is " He knows computers " .
I hear so often when I 'm looking for work that so and so is in IT and maybe I should send them my resume - I 'd be a shoe in .
When I ask exactly what they do , the response is a condescending " He and his company are in computers !
" Then I have to explain , if someone was a nurse , would you say they were in medical ?
Or how about a doctor ?
No. You would say they were a nurse or doctor .
Saying someone is in " medical " could mean they 're a x-ray tech , lab tech , housekeeper , janitor , medical office accountant , EMT , ambulance driver , etc.. , etc...Or I 'll mention how someone in food service could be a restaurant owner , chef , or the bus boy .
Oy !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Worse still is "He knows computers".
I hear so often when I'm looking for work that so and so is in IT and maybe I should send them my resume - I'd be a shoe in.
When I ask exactly what they do, the response is a condescending "He and his company are  in computers!
"Then I have to explain, if someone was a nurse, would you say they were in medical?
Or how about a doctor?
No. You would say they were a nurse or doctor.
Saying someone is in "medical" could mean they're a x-ray tech, lab tech, housekeeper, janitor, medical office accountant, EMT, ambulance driver, etc.., etc...Or I'll mention how someone in food service could be a restaurant owner, chef, or the bus boy.
Oy!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263744</id>
	<title>Re:I am a software engineer</title>
	<author>DiademBedfordshire</author>
	<datestamp>1259489400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ugg I hate it when I spend all day customizing my linux kernel and those IT scumbags can't debug it for me.

How many other people have trouble authenticating with the exchange server? or is having WAN latency issues? My guess, few to none.

If you want to run software that the rest of the company doesn't run, expect to do your own IT support and helpdesk.<p><div class="quote"><p>When they replaced my Dell desktop with an equally crappy ASUS or something they replaced the Dell branded logitech keyboard and mouse with an ASUS branded logitech keyboard and mouse on the grounds that using the wrong type of peripheral might cause "incompatibilities".</p></div><p>That is freaking hilarious! I bet you are a dick everyday about problems you create and they have found a way to just fuck with you.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ugg I hate it when I spend all day customizing my linux kernel and those IT scumbags ca n't debug it for me .
How many other people have trouble authenticating with the exchange server ?
or is having WAN latency issues ?
My guess , few to none .
If you want to run software that the rest of the company does n't run , expect to do your own IT support and helpdesk.When they replaced my Dell desktop with an equally crappy ASUS or something they replaced the Dell branded logitech keyboard and mouse with an ASUS branded logitech keyboard and mouse on the grounds that using the wrong type of peripheral might cause " incompatibilities " .That is freaking hilarious !
I bet you are a dick everyday about problems you create and they have found a way to just fuck with you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ugg I hate it when I spend all day customizing my linux kernel and those IT scumbags can't debug it for me.
How many other people have trouble authenticating with the exchange server?
or is having WAN latency issues?
My guess, few to none.
If you want to run software that the rest of the company doesn't run, expect to do your own IT support and helpdesk.When they replaced my Dell desktop with an equally crappy ASUS or something they replaced the Dell branded logitech keyboard and mouse with an ASUS branded logitech keyboard and mouse on the grounds that using the wrong type of peripheral might cause "incompatibilities".That is freaking hilarious!
I bet you are a dick everyday about problems you create and they have found a way to just fuck with you.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30266256</id>
	<title>pretentious assholes=developers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259513040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First off f you. The field you are in is called Information Technology, its not your title.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First off f you .
The field you are in is called Information Technology , its not your title .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First off f you.
The field you are in is called Information Technology, its not your title.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264166</id>
	<title>No, not really...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259493480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... but then the CEO and the data entry clerk down the hall are both just "Business Guys".</p><p>It's as accurate a statement as the generic moniker "IT Guys".  It would be worth making exactly that point to the CEO.</p><p>My $0.02 worth</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... but then the CEO and the data entry clerk down the hall are both just " Business Guys " .It 's as accurate a statement as the generic moniker " IT Guys " .
It would be worth making exactly that point to the CEO.My $ 0.02 worth</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... but then the CEO and the data entry clerk down the hall are both just "Business Guys".It's as accurate a statement as the generic moniker "IT Guys".
It would be worth making exactly that point to the CEO.My $0.02 worth</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30271390</id>
	<title>Add a 'C'</title>
	<author>mattr</author>
	<datestamp>1259604720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Add a 'C' like the Europeans do, and call it ICT. Sounds better all ready!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Add a 'C ' like the Europeans do , and call it ICT .
Sounds better all ready !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Add a 'C' like the Europeans do, and call it ICT.
Sounds better all ready!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261330</id>
	<title>Re:I am a software engineer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259509620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't know what South Africa you are living in. But the one I'm living in can NEVER get less than 300ms pings to Europe. Definitely not on a consumer product, anyways. Haven't tried the fancy stuff.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know what South Africa you are living in .
But the one I 'm living in can NEVER get less than 300ms pings to Europe .
Definitely not on a consumer product , anyways .
Have n't tried the fancy stuff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know what South Africa you are living in.
But the one I'm living in can NEVER get less than 300ms pings to Europe.
Definitely not on a consumer product, anyways.
Haven't tried the fancy stuff.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260288</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260186</id>
	<title>Titles before substance</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259495040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do you really value titles before substance?</p><p>'IT Guy' isn't a term of abuse, why should you care if people call you that?</p><p>Do they value you in your current position? Of so great, if not fix it or leave. Either way being called an 'IT Guy' is not worth worrying about.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you really value titles before substance ?
'IT Guy ' is n't a term of abuse , why should you care if people call you that ? Do they value you in your current position ?
Of so great , if not fix it or leave .
Either way being called an 'IT Guy ' is not worth worrying about .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you really value titles before substance?
'IT Guy' isn't a term of abuse, why should you care if people call you that?Do they value you in your current position?
Of so great, if not fix it or leave.
Either way being called an 'IT Guy' is not worth worrying about.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30267270</id>
	<title>Tsk Tsk</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259522160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your sense of entitlement is showing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your sense of entitlement is showing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your sense of entitlement is showing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262292</id>
	<title>really, this is what you worry about?</title>
	<author>Goldsmith</author>
	<datestamp>1259518560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My position is "fellow," is that really any better than "guy?"</p><p>If you "guys" are looking at management jobs in the corporate world, be happy with it.  While all the kids want to be a "fellow," it doesn't pay as well as being a "guy".<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... but give it a try, go for "IT fellows" if you really want to.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My position is " fellow , " is that really any better than " guy ?
" If you " guys " are looking at management jobs in the corporate world , be happy with it .
While all the kids want to be a " fellow , " it does n't pay as well as being a " guy " .
... but give it a try , go for " IT fellows " if you really want to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My position is "fellow," is that really any better than "guy?
"If you "guys" are looking at management jobs in the corporate world, be happy with it.
While all the kids want to be a "fellow," it doesn't pay as well as being a "guy".
... but give it a try, go for "IT fellows" if you really want to.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261676</id>
	<title>I've got a title for ya</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259513280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ignorant Douchebag</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ignorant Douchebag</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ignorant Douchebag</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264124</id>
	<title>Norway just got IT.</title>
	<author>rebtun</author>
	<datestamp>1259493000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Its a jungle of titles and the correct use of them have eluded many corporations.
Norway as a nation had its job titles so out of sync its bureau of statistics could not make head or tails of what people where doing.
They just recently adapted the ISCO-08. <a href="http://www.ilo.org/public/english/bureau/stat/isco/isco88/index.htm" title="ilo.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.ilo.org/public/english/bureau/stat/isco/isco88/index.htm</a> [ilo.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Its a jungle of titles and the correct use of them have eluded many corporations .
Norway as a nation had its job titles so out of sync its bureau of statistics could not make head or tails of what people where doing .
They just recently adapted the ISCO-08 .
http : //www.ilo.org/public/english/bureau/stat/isco/isco88/index.htm [ ilo.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its a jungle of titles and the correct use of them have eluded many corporations.
Norway as a nation had its job titles so out of sync its bureau of statistics could not make head or tails of what people where doing.
They just recently adapted the ISCO-08.
http://www.ilo.org/public/english/bureau/stat/isco/isco88/index.htm [ilo.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260192</id>
	<title>Re:Information Technology (IT)</title>
	<author>doghouse41</author>
	<datestamp>1259495100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I expect Accountants get tired of it too (Wait! You mean the girl who looks after the petty cash isn't interchangeable with the CFO?)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I expect Accountants get tired of it too ( Wait !
You mean the girl who looks after the petty cash is n't interchangeable with the CFO ?
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I expect Accountants get tired of it too (Wait!
You mean the girl who looks after the petty cash isn't interchangeable with the CFO?
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260102</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30263834</id>
	<title>The problem with IT is IT people</title>
	<author>upuv</author>
	<datestamp>1259490120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The reason we are often called IT people is simply a result of how badly IT people abuse IT titles, definitions and words.</p><p>I'm an IT guy. How are non-IT people suppose to keep up with the vernacular if we keep on insisting to invent new words and meanings for existing words every six months. IT as an industry is very well known for BUZZ word bingo. We are called the IT guy/gal simply because that's the only phrase that is general enough to be understood.</p><p>I'm very senior in my field. However I refuse to give myself a title that pumps my ego. I simply go by the title Senior Consultant. Why? Simple because everyone who has a buzz word bingo multi-word title is typically full of BS. Thus tainting the title and the meaning of the associated titles. I have colleagues in my company that are almost militant about making sure their title has all the most leading edge buzz words.</p><p>It's our own bloody fault we get called "IT Guy". Once real professional standards are applied Universally in the industry we will start to see real titles stick.</p><p>My advice is don't sweat it. If you wanna put them in their place simple ask them to get you a coffee and a sandwich while you fix their trivial problem.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The reason we are often called IT people is simply a result of how badly IT people abuse IT titles , definitions and words.I 'm an IT guy .
How are non-IT people suppose to keep up with the vernacular if we keep on insisting to invent new words and meanings for existing words every six months .
IT as an industry is very well known for BUZZ word bingo .
We are called the IT guy/gal simply because that 's the only phrase that is general enough to be understood.I 'm very senior in my field .
However I refuse to give myself a title that pumps my ego .
I simply go by the title Senior Consultant .
Why ? Simple because everyone who has a buzz word bingo multi-word title is typically full of BS .
Thus tainting the title and the meaning of the associated titles .
I have colleagues in my company that are almost militant about making sure their title has all the most leading edge buzz words.It 's our own bloody fault we get called " IT Guy " .
Once real professional standards are applied Universally in the industry we will start to see real titles stick.My advice is do n't sweat it .
If you wan na put them in their place simple ask them to get you a coffee and a sandwich while you fix their trivial problem .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reason we are often called IT people is simply a result of how badly IT people abuse IT titles, definitions and words.I'm an IT guy.
How are non-IT people suppose to keep up with the vernacular if we keep on insisting to invent new words and meanings for existing words every six months.
IT as an industry is very well known for BUZZ word bingo.
We are called the IT guy/gal simply because that's the only phrase that is general enough to be understood.I'm very senior in my field.
However I refuse to give myself a title that pumps my ego.
I simply go by the title Senior Consultant.
Why? Simple because everyone who has a buzz word bingo multi-word title is typically full of BS.
Thus tainting the title and the meaning of the associated titles.
I have colleagues in my company that are almost militant about making sure their title has all the most leading edge buzz words.It's our own bloody fault we get called "IT Guy".
Once real professional standards are applied Universally in the industry we will start to see real titles stick.My advice is don't sweat it.
If you wanna put them in their place simple ask them to get you a coffee and a sandwich while you fix their trivial problem.
:)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264158</id>
	<title>Computer Scientist</title>
	<author>taphu</author>
	<datestamp>1259493360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My job title is Senior Software Engineer.

However, when people ask what I do I try to give them an accurate descriptive answer of what I actually spend my day doing that I think is most meaningful <b>to them</b>. Depending on the audience, this usually turns out to be "Computer Scientist", or sometimes even "Mathematician" (especially if I think they are going to ask me to fix their computer).</htmltext>
<tokenext>My job title is Senior Software Engineer .
However , when people ask what I do I try to give them an accurate descriptive answer of what I actually spend my day doing that I think is most meaningful to them .
Depending on the audience , this usually turns out to be " Computer Scientist " , or sometimes even " Mathematician " ( especially if I think they are going to ask me to fix their computer ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My job title is Senior Software Engineer.
However, when people ask what I do I try to give them an accurate descriptive answer of what I actually spend my day doing that I think is most meaningful to them.
Depending on the audience, this usually turns out to be "Computer Scientist", or sometimes even "Mathematician" (especially if I think they are going to ask me to fix their computer).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264182</id>
	<title>speak their language</title>
	<author>timmarhy</author>
	<datestamp>1259493600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And this goes for everything - speak the language of the person you are trying to convince. He's a CEO, so pitch it to him as a branding issue for your internal customers.<p>
tell him you feel it's essential to attract and KEEP the right people that they know they are in the right job, and they will know that by being refered to as their rightful title. don't make it sound like you are going to smack people over the fingers with a ruler for calling them IT people, and definately don't start handing out grand titles that make the job sound more then it is, just ease it in via meeting requests etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And this goes for everything - speak the language of the person you are trying to convince .
He 's a CEO , so pitch it to him as a branding issue for your internal customers .
tell him you feel it 's essential to attract and KEEP the right people that they know they are in the right job , and they will know that by being refered to as their rightful title .
do n't make it sound like you are going to smack people over the fingers with a ruler for calling them IT people , and definately do n't start handing out grand titles that make the job sound more then it is , just ease it in via meeting requests etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And this goes for everything - speak the language of the person you are trying to convince.
He's a CEO, so pitch it to him as a branding issue for your internal customers.
tell him you feel it's essential to attract and KEEP the right people that they know they are in the right job, and they will know that by being refered to as their rightful title.
don't make it sound like you are going to smack people over the fingers with a ruler for calling them IT people, and definately don't start handing out grand titles that make the job sound more then it is, just ease it in via meeting requests etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260548</id>
	<title>Re:I am a software engineer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259500680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Pardon me, I seem to have stumbled across your post while I was browsing the thread for worthier comments, and resentfully lost several precious seconds of my day. For future reference the angry, dickless rants about your job and other boring shit go in your blog. If you don't already have one, here is a great, free site that will take you through the process of setting one up: https://www.blogger.com/start<br>Blogs are great, but another way for you to cope with the poor decisions that led to your shitty job is to drink the workday away when you get home. Both of these techniques are much better ways to deal with stress than leaving comments on websites where people expect interesting discussions about technology.</p><p>Oh, and speaking as a real engineer, please don't call yourself a "software engineer." You're just a programmer for fuck sakes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Pardon me , I seem to have stumbled across your post while I was browsing the thread for worthier comments , and resentfully lost several precious seconds of my day .
For future reference the angry , dickless rants about your job and other boring shit go in your blog .
If you do n't already have one , here is a great , free site that will take you through the process of setting one up : https : //www.blogger.com/startBlogs are great , but another way for you to cope with the poor decisions that led to your shitty job is to drink the workday away when you get home .
Both of these techniques are much better ways to deal with stress than leaving comments on websites where people expect interesting discussions about technology.Oh , and speaking as a real engineer , please do n't call yourself a " software engineer .
" You 're just a programmer for fuck sakes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pardon me, I seem to have stumbled across your post while I was browsing the thread for worthier comments, and resentfully lost several precious seconds of my day.
For future reference the angry, dickless rants about your job and other boring shit go in your blog.
If you don't already have one, here is a great, free site that will take you through the process of setting one up: https://www.blogger.com/startBlogs are great, but another way for you to cope with the poor decisions that led to your shitty job is to drink the workday away when you get home.
Both of these techniques are much better ways to deal with stress than leaving comments on websites where people expect interesting discussions about technology.Oh, and speaking as a real engineer, please don't call yourself a "software engineer.
" You're just a programmer for fuck sakes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260158</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260036</id>
	<title>Can't see why this would matter.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259493060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can't see why this would matter. Hopefully potential candidates will look beyond whatever their official job title is. I'd change it slowly over time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't see why this would matter .
Hopefully potential candidates will look beyond whatever their official job title is .
I 'd change it slowly over time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't see why this would matter.
Hopefully potential candidates will look beyond whatever their official job title is.
I'd change it slowly over time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262408</id>
	<title>'IT' will only give way to some similar vague term</title>
	<author>Anomalous Cowbird</author>
	<datestamp>1259519400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Before it was 'IT,' it was 'IS' (Information Systems), which had been called 'DS' (Data Systems), which previously had been referred to as 'DP' (Data Processing).  For those outside the field, anyone working with IT (or whatever it's called this season) will be lumped in with the 'IT guys.'  I've concluded that it's pointless (as well as futile) to expect everyone else to grasp the differences between the 'network guys', the 'database guys,' the 'programmer guys,' etc.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Before it was 'IT, ' it was 'IS ' ( Information Systems ) , which had been called 'DS ' ( Data Systems ) , which previously had been referred to as 'DP ' ( Data Processing ) .
For those outside the field , anyone working with IT ( or whatever it 's called this season ) will be lumped in with the 'IT guys .
' I 've concluded that it 's pointless ( as well as futile ) to expect everyone else to grasp the differences between the 'network guys ' , the 'database guys, ' the 'programmer guys, ' etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Before it was 'IT,' it was 'IS' (Information Systems), which had been called 'DS' (Data Systems), which previously had been referred to as 'DP' (Data Processing).
For those outside the field, anyone working with IT (or whatever it's called this season) will be lumped in with the 'IT guys.
'  I've concluded that it's pointless (as well as futile) to expect everyone else to grasp the differences between the 'network guys', the 'database guys,' the 'programmer guys,' etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260420</id>
	<title>Names/labels matter</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259499240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes - it really does matter.
<p>
In the very large financial organization I work for, those "in IT" are paid massively less and yet have to know both the business inside out AND the technology inside out (and I get pretty frustrated a lot of the time dealing with those "in the business" who, frankly, don't even know their own business)
</p><p>
We also still have to work all the hours and get all the grief of working in an investment bank (and these can be pretty crappy).
</p><p>
It goes further than this - the top grade in the organization ("Managing Director") is applied to around 1 in 10 people "in the business" and 1 in 250 "in IT".  This is justified by the statement that "the business brings in the revenue".  Interesting - given that the majority of the revenue in a bank is now brought in by automated systems created by those people "in IT".
</p><p>
Being labeled as "IT" is a problem - because I label myself as "a business person...who also happens to know something about developing systems"
</p><p>
Oh - one last thing.  If you speak to someone outside the company and mention who you work for, then you also get all the really lovely hostility that's around right now that's aimed at banks.  At that point no-one cares that you're "just and IT guy" - you're an "evil investment banker" who "must earn millions" (I don't - nobody "in IT" earns these sorts of numbers).
</p><p>
All of this is why I am currently looking for a job "in the business" and also why so many people "in IT" are leaving.
</p><p>
Labels matter - a lot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes - it really does matter .
In the very large financial organization I work for , those " in IT " are paid massively less and yet have to know both the business inside out AND the technology inside out ( and I get pretty frustrated a lot of the time dealing with those " in the business " who , frankly , do n't even know their own business ) We also still have to work all the hours and get all the grief of working in an investment bank ( and these can be pretty crappy ) .
It goes further than this - the top grade in the organization ( " Managing Director " ) is applied to around 1 in 10 people " in the business " and 1 in 250 " in IT " .
This is justified by the statement that " the business brings in the revenue " .
Interesting - given that the majority of the revenue in a bank is now brought in by automated systems created by those people " in IT " .
Being labeled as " IT " is a problem - because I label myself as " a business person...who also happens to know something about developing systems " Oh - one last thing .
If you speak to someone outside the company and mention who you work for , then you also get all the really lovely hostility that 's around right now that 's aimed at banks .
At that point no-one cares that you 're " just and IT guy " - you 're an " evil investment banker " who " must earn millions " ( I do n't - nobody " in IT " earns these sorts of numbers ) .
All of this is why I am currently looking for a job " in the business " and also why so many people " in IT " are leaving .
Labels matter - a lot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes - it really does matter.
In the very large financial organization I work for, those "in IT" are paid massively less and yet have to know both the business inside out AND the technology inside out (and I get pretty frustrated a lot of the time dealing with those "in the business" who, frankly, don't even know their own business)

We also still have to work all the hours and get all the grief of working in an investment bank (and these can be pretty crappy).
It goes further than this - the top grade in the organization ("Managing Director") is applied to around 1 in 10 people "in the business" and 1 in 250 "in IT".
This is justified by the statement that "the business brings in the revenue".
Interesting - given that the majority of the revenue in a bank is now brought in by automated systems created by those people "in IT".
Being labeled as "IT" is a problem - because I label myself as "a business person...who also happens to know something about developing systems"

Oh - one last thing.
If you speak to someone outside the company and mention who you work for, then you also get all the really lovely hostility that's around right now that's aimed at banks.
At that point no-one cares that you're "just and IT guy" - you're an "evil investment banker" who "must earn millions" (I don't - nobody "in IT" earns these sorts of numbers).
All of this is why I am currently looking for a job "in the business" and also why so many people "in IT" are leaving.
Labels matter - a lot.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30264918</id>
	<title>Microservices?</title>
	<author>Udigs</author>
	<datestamp>1259499960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's the term for the "person who runs around fixing windows boxes." At least in places I've worked where they differentiate. So being called "IT" isn't that bad!</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's the term for the " person who runs around fixing windows boxes .
" At least in places I 've worked where they differentiate .
So being called " IT " is n't that bad !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's the term for the "person who runs around fixing windows boxes.
" At least in places I've worked where they differentiate.
So being called "IT" isn't that bad!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30332010</id>
	<title>Re:IT is infrastructure, not computer science</title>
	<author>CAIMLAS</author>
	<datestamp>1259939940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yet, we can't use titles like architect or engineer; not really, as those titles typically have licensing boards associated with them. It's not professionally honest to refer to one's self as an engineer or architect.</p><p>In a broad sense, yes, IT is Information Technologies. I'd argue it covers developers more than "support staff", which I'd lump into Information Systems. But that's neither here nor there. The point is that people refer to many of us "IT types" generically, as if we're faceless automations with little more standing socially than a janitor, and probably not as much as building maintenance. Most people - at least! - recognize building maintenance as having an intrinsic purpose: replacing lights, fixing damage, painting, and so on.</p><p>I've had people yell at me over the phone and in person while I've been in "3rd level" technician roles - IE, there were 2 technically adept people underneath me fielding calls, and I had other responsibilities as my primary role. Most people wouldn't dream of yelling at building maintenance if a light bulb goes out or they accidentally hit a hole in the wall.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yet , we ca n't use titles like architect or engineer ; not really , as those titles typically have licensing boards associated with them .
It 's not professionally honest to refer to one 's self as an engineer or architect.In a broad sense , yes , IT is Information Technologies .
I 'd argue it covers developers more than " support staff " , which I 'd lump into Information Systems .
But that 's neither here nor there .
The point is that people refer to many of us " IT types " generically , as if we 're faceless automations with little more standing socially than a janitor , and probably not as much as building maintenance .
Most people - at least !
- recognize building maintenance as having an intrinsic purpose : replacing lights , fixing damage , painting , and so on.I 've had people yell at me over the phone and in person while I 've been in " 3rd level " technician roles - IE , there were 2 technically adept people underneath me fielding calls , and I had other responsibilities as my primary role .
Most people would n't dream of yelling at building maintenance if a light bulb goes out or they accidentally hit a hole in the wall .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yet, we can't use titles like architect or engineer; not really, as those titles typically have licensing boards associated with them.
It's not professionally honest to refer to one's self as an engineer or architect.In a broad sense, yes, IT is Information Technologies.
I'd argue it covers developers more than "support staff", which I'd lump into Information Systems.
But that's neither here nor there.
The point is that people refer to many of us "IT types" generically, as if we're faceless automations with little more standing socially than a janitor, and probably not as much as building maintenance.
Most people - at least!
- recognize building maintenance as having an intrinsic purpose: replacing lights, fixing damage, painting, and so on.I've had people yell at me over the phone and in person while I've been in "3rd level" technician roles - IE, there were 2 technically adept people underneath me fielding calls, and I had other responsibilities as my primary role.
Most people wouldn't dream of yelling at building maintenance if a light bulb goes out or they accidentally hit a hole in the wall.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260200</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260136</id>
	<title>Being called the IT Girl on the other hand...</title>
	<author>srussia</author>
	<datestamp>1259494380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>would be pretty cool.</htmltext>
<tokenext>would be pretty cool .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>would be pretty cool.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260160</id>
	<title>sounds petty</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259494680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes it sounds petty. Everyone refers to anyone who works in technology as IT! Why? because they have no idea what you do, or for that matter what anyone else does. Information Technology is a broad descriptive title. I don't think it is meant to belittle anyone. Most people on the business side just don't know how to refer to the different areas of IT.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes it sounds petty .
Everyone refers to anyone who works in technology as IT !
Why ? because they have no idea what you do , or for that matter what anyone else does .
Information Technology is a broad descriptive title .
I do n't think it is meant to belittle anyone .
Most people on the business side just do n't know how to refer to the different areas of IT .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes it sounds petty.
Everyone refers to anyone who works in technology as IT!
Why? because they have no idea what you do, or for that matter what anyone else does.
Information Technology is a broad descriptive title.
I don't think it is meant to belittle anyone.
Most people on the business side just don't know how to refer to the different areas of IT.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260104</id>
	<title>it doesn't matter</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259493900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>the job will be out-sourced soon, anyway.</htmltext>
<tokenext>the job will be out-sourced soon , anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the job will be out-sourced soon, anyway.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30262724</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259521920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I too have years of education and over 20 years experience. Right now I'm a DBA and love it. Without those windoze sys admins, your shiny excellently developed code ain't worth the paper your degree is printed on. As an IT team, we make applications/business processes happen. Get off your high horse cowboy, you ain't that important on your own!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I too have years of education and over 20 years experience .
Right now I 'm a DBA and love it .
Without those windoze sys admins , your shiny excellently developed code ai n't worth the paper your degree is printed on .
As an IT team , we make applications/business processes happen .
Get off your high horse cowboy , you ai n't that important on your own !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I too have years of education and over 20 years experience.
Right now I'm a DBA and love it.
Without those windoze sys admins, your shiny excellently developed code ain't worth the paper your degree is printed on.
As an IT team, we make applications/business processes happen.
Get off your high horse cowboy, you ain't that important on your own!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30261016</id>
	<title>Stunned by the venom</title>
	<author>heironymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259506440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm stunned by the venom in the responses to the OP.  I think this is a reflection of some serious naivete on the part of some responders.</p><p>Maybe titles don't matter to most IT folks, but they certainly do matter to everyone else.  Specifically, they matter to the folks who pay you and who decide when to stop paying you.  The idea that if you just do your job well, then that will be enough, is very foolish.  It assumes that promotions and firings are in some way related to competence.  They are not.  In today's competitive environment, we would all do well to hone our political skills too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm stunned by the venom in the responses to the OP .
I think this is a reflection of some serious naivete on the part of some responders.Maybe titles do n't matter to most IT folks , but they certainly do matter to everyone else .
Specifically , they matter to the folks who pay you and who decide when to stop paying you .
The idea that if you just do your job well , then that will be enough , is very foolish .
It assumes that promotions and firings are in some way related to competence .
They are not .
In today 's competitive environment , we would all do well to hone our political skills too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm stunned by the venom in the responses to the OP.
I think this is a reflection of some serious naivete on the part of some responders.Maybe titles don't matter to most IT folks, but they certainly do matter to everyone else.
Specifically, they matter to the folks who pay you and who decide when to stop paying you.
The idea that if you just do your job well, then that will be enough, is very foolish.
It assumes that promotions and firings are in some way related to competence.
They are not.
In today's competitive environment, we would all do well to hone our political skills too.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_28_2353241.30260870</id>
	<title>Dialect</title>
	<author>moosesocks</author>
	<datestamp>1259504760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Briefly adding my own $0.02:</p><p>In Britain, 'IT' seems more acceptable to be used as a catchall for anything computer-related.  In the US, many narrow the definition to helpdesk support, and the personnel responsible for the ongoing operation of anything computer-related.  Developers and architects are separate (with DBAs and a few other positions hanging somewhere in the void between) --- I'm not sure if this is a regional distinction in the US, primarily because personnel in these fields tend to move around quite a bit.</p><p>Frankly, they're both valuable professions.  I've worn both hats, and it's a bit of a shock to make the switch from one to the other, as both fields evolve and change so rapidly that it's very difficult to stay current in both.  That said, I can easily understand why one would want their job title to accurate reflect their duties!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Briefly adding my own $ 0.02 : In Britain , 'IT ' seems more acceptable to be used as a catchall for anything computer-related .
In the US , many narrow the definition to helpdesk support , and the personnel responsible for the ongoing operation of anything computer-related .
Developers and architects are separate ( with DBAs and a few other positions hanging somewhere in the void between ) --- I 'm not sure if this is a regional distinction in the US , primarily because personnel in these fields tend to move around quite a bit.Frankly , they 're both valuable professions .
I 've worn both hats , and it 's a bit of a shock to make the switch from one to the other , as both fields evolve and change so rapidly that it 's very difficult to stay current in both .
That said , I can easily understand why one would want their job title to accurate reflect their duties !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Briefly adding my own $0.02:In Britain, 'IT' seems more acceptable to be used as a catchall for anything computer-related.
In the US, many narrow the definition to helpdesk support, and the personnel responsible for the ongoing operation of anything computer-related.
Developers and architects are separate (with DBAs and a few other positions hanging somewhere in the void between) --- I'm not sure if this is a regional distinction in the US, primarily because personnel in these fields tend to move around quite a bit.Frankly, they're both valuable professions.
I've worn both hats, and it's a bit of a shock to make the switch from one to the other, as both fields evolve and change so rapidly that it's very difficult to stay current in both.
That said, I can easily understand why one would want their job title to accurate reflect their duties!</sentencetext>
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