<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_11_26_2129212</id>
	<title>Hacker McKinnon To Be Extradited To US</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1259233080000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>Vainglorious Coward writes <i>"When UK hacker and Asperger's sufferer Gray McKinnon <a href="//news.slashdot.org/story/09/07/31/131249/British-Hacker-Loses-Review-of-Aspergers-Defense">lost the judicial review of his case</a> it seemed likely that he would be extradited to the US to face charges of hacking almost a hundred systems causing $700,000 worth of damage.  Today the UK home secretary <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/26/computer-hacker-gary-mckinnon-extradition">rejected his last-ditch attempt to avoid extradition</a> adding that 'his extradition to the United States must proceed forthwith.'  McKinnon's relatives are expressing concerns for his health,  with his lawyer going so far as to claim that extradition would make the 43-year-old's death 'virtually certain.'"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Vainglorious Coward writes " When UK hacker and Asperger 's sufferer Gray McKinnon lost the judicial review of his case it seemed likely that he would be extradited to the US to face charges of hacking almost a hundred systems causing $ 700,000 worth of damage .
Today the UK home secretary rejected his last-ditch attempt to avoid extradition adding that 'his extradition to the United States must proceed forthwith .
' McKinnon 's relatives are expressing concerns for his health , with his lawyer going so far as to claim that extradition would make the 43-year-old 's death 'virtually certain .
' "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Vainglorious Coward writes "When UK hacker and Asperger's sufferer Gray McKinnon lost the judicial review of his case it seemed likely that he would be extradited to the US to face charges of hacking almost a hundred systems causing $700,000 worth of damage.
Today the UK home secretary rejected his last-ditch attempt to avoid extradition adding that 'his extradition to the United States must proceed forthwith.
'  McKinnon's relatives are expressing concerns for his health,  with his lawyer going so far as to claim that extradition would make the 43-year-old's death 'virtually certain.
'"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241018</id>
	<title>The UK needs to grow a pair</title>
	<author>Holammer</author>
	<datestamp>1259241120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>A real country with hair on it's chest wouldn't extradite any of it's citizens for something like this.
Put him to trial yourself instead of giving the Americans a political blowjob. Tony Blair isn't in office any longer, you can stop kissing USofA's ass now.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A real country with hair on it 's chest would n't extradite any of it 's citizens for something like this .
Put him to trial yourself instead of giving the Americans a political blowjob .
Tony Blair is n't in office any longer , you can stop kissing USofA 's ass now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A real country with hair on it's chest wouldn't extradite any of it's citizens for something like this.
Put him to trial yourself instead of giving the Americans a political blowjob.
Tony Blair isn't in office any longer, you can stop kissing USofA's ass now.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240848</id>
	<title>Open Doors in the Third World</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259239860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My son asked me over this me how can a third world country extradite a British citizen ? i then had to explain America is not a third world country although he and his friends firmly believe it is, makes me wonder if the USA is being increasingly viewed in a different light<nobr> <wbr></nobr>......</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My son asked me over this me how can a third world country extradite a British citizen ?
i then had to explain America is not a third world country although he and his friends firmly believe it is , makes me wonder if the USA is being increasingly viewed in a different light ..... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My son asked me over this me how can a third world country extradite a British citizen ?
i then had to explain America is not a third world country although he and his friends firmly believe it is, makes me wonder if the USA is being increasingly viewed in a different light ......</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30242370</id>
	<title>He Isn't Entitled To A Jury of His Peers</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1259254620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>How is he going to get a fair trial,he will not have a jury of his peers, they all live in the UK. Are we going to extradite them as well?</i> </p><p>No we are not:</p><p><i>In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, <b>by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed,</b> which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.</i> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth\_Amendment\_to\_the\_United\_States\_Constitution" title="wikipedia.org">The Sixth Amendment</a> [wikipedia.org] </p><p>Juries must be drawn from a panel that is representative of the citizens of the district in which the crime was committed.</p><p> Individual jurors must be free of bias.</p><p>The jury of your peers isn't a mirror reflection of your own self-image.</p><p> It's a richer sampling of the community in which you have been charged with a crime.</p><p>To a geek, this passage should sound familiar:</p><p><i>When you're in the government's sights, your best friend would seem to be a jury, that lovable amalgam of ordinary Americans with a simple, if sometimes mistaken, sense of justice. Did nothing wrong? Don't worry, jurors will sniff out the truth. Cheated a bit? No problem -- prosecutors would rather cut a deal than risk their case before a fickle jury. And if you do end up at trial, there's a good chance that jurors will be so sympathetic, confused or hostile to the government that they'll disagree on a verdict or let you off the hook.</i> </p><p>It almost never works out that way.</p><p><a href="http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1484032,00.html" title="time.com">Why to Fear a Jury of Your Peers</a> [time.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How is he going to get a fair trial,he will not have a jury of his peers , they all live in the UK .
Are we going to extradite them as well ?
No we are not : In all criminal prosecutions , the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial , by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed , which district shall have been previously ascertained by law , and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation ; to be confronted with the witnesses against him ; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor , and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense .
The Sixth Amendment [ wikipedia.org ] Juries must be drawn from a panel that is representative of the citizens of the district in which the crime was committed .
Individual jurors must be free of bias.The jury of your peers is n't a mirror reflection of your own self-image .
It 's a richer sampling of the community in which you have been charged with a crime.To a geek , this passage should sound familiar : When you 're in the government 's sights , your best friend would seem to be a jury , that lovable amalgam of ordinary Americans with a simple , if sometimes mistaken , sense of justice .
Did nothing wrong ?
Do n't worry , jurors will sniff out the truth .
Cheated a bit ?
No problem -- prosecutors would rather cut a deal than risk their case before a fickle jury .
And if you do end up at trial , there 's a good chance that jurors will be so sympathetic , confused or hostile to the government that they 'll disagree on a verdict or let you off the hook .
It almost never works out that way.Why to Fear a Jury of Your Peers [ time.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How is he going to get a fair trial,he will not have a jury of his peers, they all live in the UK.
Are we going to extradite them as well?
No we are not:In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.
The Sixth Amendment [wikipedia.org] Juries must be drawn from a panel that is representative of the citizens of the district in which the crime was committed.
Individual jurors must be free of bias.The jury of your peers isn't a mirror reflection of your own self-image.
It's a richer sampling of the community in which you have been charged with a crime.To a geek, this passage should sound familiar:When you're in the government's sights, your best friend would seem to be a jury, that lovable amalgam of ordinary Americans with a simple, if sometimes mistaken, sense of justice.
Did nothing wrong?
Don't worry, jurors will sniff out the truth.
Cheated a bit?
No problem -- prosecutors would rather cut a deal than risk their case before a fickle jury.
And if you do end up at trial, there's a good chance that jurors will be so sympathetic, confused or hostile to the government that they'll disagree on a verdict or let you off the hook.
It almost never works out that way.Why to Fear a Jury of Your Peers [time.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241242</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30243426</id>
	<title>Re:UK citizen?</title>
	<author>RiotingPacifist</author>
	<datestamp>1259354760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>somewhat biased in favour of the US</p></div><p>That is like saying, having your balls ripped of using a blunt knife is somewhat painful! The US allowed known IRA terrorists and fundraisers to stick around, but at the first opportunity we hand over some computer hacker, fuck that!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>somewhat biased in favour of the USThat is like saying , having your balls ripped of using a blunt knife is somewhat painful !
The US allowed known IRA terrorists and fundraisers to stick around , but at the first opportunity we hand over some computer hacker , fuck that !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>somewhat biased in favour of the USThat is like saying, having your balls ripped of using a blunt knife is somewhat painful!
The US allowed known IRA terrorists and fundraisers to stick around, but at the first opportunity we hand over some computer hacker, fuck that!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240780</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30247984</id>
	<title>Those keystrokes weren't even the crime</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259353680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Those keystrokes weren't even the crime they are accusing him of.</p><p>They want to put him on trial for a criminal law that passed AFTER (repeat ***AFTER***) he did the act.</p><p>Ex posto facto laws don't apply.</p><p>Unless the DoD want it to because they're so incompetent they couldn't find their own arseholes with an atlas and a team of sherpas.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Those keystrokes were n't even the crime they are accusing him of.They want to put him on trial for a criminal law that passed AFTER ( repeat * * * AFTER * * * ) he did the act.Ex posto facto laws do n't apply.Unless the DoD want it to because they 're so incompetent they could n't find their own arseholes with an atlas and a team of sherpas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Those keystrokes weren't even the crime they are accusing him of.They want to put him on trial for a criminal law that passed AFTER (repeat ***AFTER***) he did the act.Ex posto facto laws don't apply.Unless the DoD want it to because they're so incompetent they couldn't find their own arseholes with an atlas and a team of sherpas.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240582</id>
	<title>Awesome job!</title>
	<author>Chad Birch</author>
	<datestamp>1259237940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>His name is Gary, not Gray. Stellar editing as always, slashdot staff.</htmltext>
<tokenext>His name is Gary , not Gray .
Stellar editing as always , slashdot staff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>His name is Gary, not Gray.
Stellar editing as always, slashdot staff.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240992</id>
	<title>Re:Awesome job!</title>
	<author>value\_added</author>
	<datestamp>1259240940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>His name is Gary, not Gray. Stellar editing as always, slashdot staff.</i></p><p>If it helps, I think that for most, proper editing on Slashdot may be a gray area, while for others it's certainly grey.  I don't know who Stellar is.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>His name is Gary , not Gray .
Stellar editing as always , slashdot staff.If it helps , I think that for most , proper editing on Slashdot may be a gray area , while for others it 's certainly grey .
I do n't know who Stellar is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>His name is Gary, not Gray.
Stellar editing as always, slashdot staff.If it helps, I think that for most, proper editing on Slashdot may be a gray area, while for others it's certainly grey.
I don't know who Stellar is.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241750</id>
	<title>Disgusting, gross injustice</title>
	<author>McDutchie</author>
	<datestamp>1259247720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Justice would mean him being tried in the UK, just like any other UK citizen. Now he is going to get 60 years in the for-profit American prison industry for guessing a few passwords. For an example of how people with Asperger's are treated there, see the <a href="http://www.laweekly.com/2007-03-01/news/a-terrible-thing-to-waste/" title="laweekly.com" rel="nofollow">Billy Cotrell case</a> [laweekly.com].</p><p>The US would sooner start a war than extradite one of their own to another country, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague\_Invasion\_Act" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">even for war crimes</a> [wikipedia.org]. One-sided extradition treaties give the US legal jurisdiction over Europe but not vice versa. We Europeans are pussies. We've truly let ourselves become satellite states of the Empire of the United States of America.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Justice would mean him being tried in the UK , just like any other UK citizen .
Now he is going to get 60 years in the for-profit American prison industry for guessing a few passwords .
For an example of how people with Asperger 's are treated there , see the Billy Cotrell case [ laweekly.com ] .The US would sooner start a war than extradite one of their own to another country , even for war crimes [ wikipedia.org ] .
One-sided extradition treaties give the US legal jurisdiction over Europe but not vice versa .
We Europeans are pussies .
We 've truly let ourselves become satellite states of the Empire of the United States of America .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Justice would mean him being tried in the UK, just like any other UK citizen.
Now he is going to get 60 years in the for-profit American prison industry for guessing a few passwords.
For an example of how people with Asperger's are treated there, see the Billy Cotrell case [laweekly.com].The US would sooner start a war than extradite one of their own to another country, even for war crimes [wikipedia.org].
One-sided extradition treaties give the US legal jurisdiction over Europe but not vice versa.
We Europeans are pussies.
We've truly let ourselves become satellite states of the Empire of the United States of America.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240934</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>stuckinphp</author>
	<datestamp>1259240580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because they were posting from UK computers? </p><p>How the fuck did this get modded up as insightful.</p><p>
The gist of what he said:<br>

The crime took place on British soil with servers in the US. Why is he being extradited?<br>
Or if you want to take the other view, why have people posting on british soil on servers in the US been prosecuted in Britain for hate speech.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because they were posting from UK computers ?
How the fuck did this get modded up as insightful .
The gist of what he said : The crime took place on British soil with servers in the US .
Why is he being extradited ?
Or if you want to take the other view , why have people posting on british soil on servers in the US been prosecuted in Britain for hate speech .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because they were posting from UK computers?
How the fuck did this get modded up as insightful.
The gist of what he said:

The crime took place on British soil with servers in the US.
Why is he being extradited?
Or if you want to take the other view, why have people posting on british soil on servers in the US been prosecuted in Britain for hate speech.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30245076</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>jabuzz</author>
	<datestamp>1259334120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In theory no reason. But he is been extradited using a bilateral treaty (supposedly for terrorists) that the US congress has refused to ratify. A decent UK government would amend the legislation so that extraditions under the treaty where not permissible while it was not in enforce in the USA, and immediately suspend his extradition.</p><p>Secondly the US should not be using this treaty period, and the UK government needs to amend the legislation so it has to be used for terrorists, and suspend his extradition.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In theory no reason .
But he is been extradited using a bilateral treaty ( supposedly for terrorists ) that the US congress has refused to ratify .
A decent UK government would amend the legislation so that extraditions under the treaty where not permissible while it was not in enforce in the USA , and immediately suspend his extradition.Secondly the US should not be using this treaty period , and the UK government needs to amend the legislation so it has to be used for terrorists , and suspend his extradition .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In theory no reason.
But he is been extradited using a bilateral treaty (supposedly for terrorists) that the US congress has refused to ratify.
A decent UK government would amend the legislation so that extraditions under the treaty where not permissible while it was not in enforce in the USA, and immediately suspend his extradition.Secondly the US should not be using this treaty period, and the UK government needs to amend the legislation so it has to be used for terrorists, and suspend his extradition.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240658</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241022</id>
	<title>Re:$700,000</title>
	<author>Vainglorious Coward</author>
	<datestamp>1259241180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>That figure is the alleged cost of upgrading the security of these systems after the attack, not the result of any 'damage' that he may have caused</p></div></blockquote><p>I think you're probably right that this represents a subsequent upgrade.  Note that the article linked from the earlier slashdot piece actually claims he caused <a href="http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20090123/hacker-wins-court-review.htm" title="ibtimes.com" rel="nofollow">almost a billion dollars worth of damage</a> [ibtimes.com]!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That figure is the alleged cost of upgrading the security of these systems after the attack , not the result of any 'damage ' that he may have causedI think you 're probably right that this represents a subsequent upgrade .
Note that the article linked from the earlier slashdot piece actually claims he caused almost a billion dollars worth of damage [ ibtimes.com ] !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That figure is the alleged cost of upgrading the security of these systems after the attack, not the result of any 'damage' that he may have causedI think you're probably right that this represents a subsequent upgrade.
Note that the article linked from the earlier slashdot piece actually claims he caused almost a billion dollars worth of damage [ibtimes.com]!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240654</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30243630</id>
	<title>I hope he gets the death penalty</title>
	<author>Builder</author>
	<datestamp>1259314380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I really do... I've got nothing against the bloke personally, but this 'Special Relationship' that marches our soldiers to their death and fucks us every which way in our dealings with the US needs to die and that won't happen until the people in the street wake up and realise just how one-sided this relationship has been for a long time now.</p><p>One thing that I still can't understand is that I thought Obama was all about change. Why is his administration still pushing for this extradition? All the democrats told me that America would be perfect again once Obama got in &gt;:(</p><p>Obama - SAME we can believe in.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I really do... I 've got nothing against the bloke personally , but this 'Special Relationship ' that marches our soldiers to their death and fucks us every which way in our dealings with the US needs to die and that wo n't happen until the people in the street wake up and realise just how one-sided this relationship has been for a long time now.One thing that I still ca n't understand is that I thought Obama was all about change .
Why is his administration still pushing for this extradition ?
All the democrats told me that America would be perfect again once Obama got in &gt; : ( Obama - SAME we can believe in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I really do... I've got nothing against the bloke personally, but this 'Special Relationship' that marches our soldiers to their death and fucks us every which way in our dealings with the US needs to die and that won't happen until the people in the street wake up and realise just how one-sided this relationship has been for a long time now.One thing that I still can't understand is that I thought Obama was all about change.
Why is his administration still pushing for this extradition?
All the democrats told me that America would be perfect again once Obama got in &gt;:(Obama - SAME we can believe in.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241286</id>
	<title>Re:So let's just forget about a fair trial!</title>
	<author>Raisey-raison</author>
	<datestamp>1259243460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He committed a crime (defined that way under US law) in the UK. The crime was not carried out in the USA. Yes his actions had consequences for the USA but he did not do anything in the USA. Why the USA has jurisdiction os beyond me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He committed a crime ( defined that way under US law ) in the UK .
The crime was not carried out in the USA .
Yes his actions had consequences for the USA but he did not do anything in the USA .
Why the USA has jurisdiction os beyond me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He committed a crime (defined that way under US law) in the UK.
The crime was not carried out in the USA.
Yes his actions had consequences for the USA but he did not do anything in the USA.
Why the USA has jurisdiction os beyond me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240706</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30243148</id>
	<title>At first glance</title>
	<author>gruber\_aekdb</author>
	<datestamp>1259264820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>When I was reading the article titles to see if anything looked interesting, I thought it said Hacker McKinnon to be executed in US...

Really made me think twice about some of the stuff I do online in my free time<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)  That &amp; the **AA has become a little more powerful/influential than the last time I heard.</htmltext>
<tokenext>When I was reading the article titles to see if anything looked interesting , I thought it said Hacker McKinnon to be executed in US.. . Really made me think twice about some of the stuff I do online in my free time : ) That &amp; the * * AA has become a little more powerful/influential than the last time I heard .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I was reading the article titles to see if anything looked interesting, I thought it said Hacker McKinnon to be executed in US...

Really made me think twice about some of the stuff I do online in my free time :)  That &amp; the **AA has become a little more powerful/influential than the last time I heard.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30243440</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259355060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Britain has invaded two sovereign countries murdering countless innocent people just because the US Government asked them to.<br>They are hardly going to refuse to extradite an aspie hacker that has already admitted committing the offense he is charged with.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Britain has invaded two sovereign countries murdering countless innocent people just because the US Government asked them to.They are hardly going to refuse to extradite an aspie hacker that has already admitted committing the offense he is charged with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Britain has invaded two sovereign countries murdering countless innocent people just because the US Government asked them to.They are hardly going to refuse to extradite an aspie hacker that has already admitted committing the offense he is charged with.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240978</id>
	<title>Re:So let's just forget about a fair trial!</title>
	<author>Jafafa Hots</author>
	<datestamp>1259240820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If I post a topless pic of Halle Berry on a server that happens to be in Saudi Arabia, does that mean they can have me extradited from the US and behead me?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If I post a topless pic of Halle Berry on a server that happens to be in Saudi Arabia , does that mean they can have me extradited from the US and behead me ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I post a topless pic of Halle Berry on a server that happens to be in Saudi Arabia, does that mean they can have me extradited from the US and behead me?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240706</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240886</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>myowntrueself</author>
	<datestamp>1259240160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Have you ever met anyone on the autistic spectrum?</p></div><p>I *lived* with someone with aspergers.</p><p>It taught me that someone can be a total and utter CUNT without actually being malicious about it.</p><p>NEVER AGAIN. Never a-fucking-gain would I want to live with someone with the aspergers affectation.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Have you ever met anyone on the autistic spectrum ? I * lived * with someone with aspergers.It taught me that someone can be a total and utter CUNT without actually being malicious about it.NEVER AGAIN .
Never a-fucking-gain would I want to live with someone with the aspergers affectation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have you ever met anyone on the autistic spectrum?I *lived* with someone with aspergers.It taught me that someone can be a total and utter CUNT without actually being malicious about it.NEVER AGAIN.
Never a-fucking-gain would I want to live with someone with the aspergers affectation.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240572</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30244038</id>
	<title>Re:Extradition to countries that practice torture?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259319060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Maybe he should appeal to the EU court "</p><p>He is.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Maybe he should appeal to the EU court " He is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Maybe he should appeal to the EU court "He is.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30242072</id>
	<title>If you Can't do the time don't DO the crime.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259251320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>ASS BERGERS ???<br>
&nbsp; HOOOT.<br>
&nbsp; Hey Wanna ASS Berger.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Reminds me of the movie Demolition Man when he found out he was eating  a rat berger.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>ASS BERGERS ? ? ?
  HOOOT .
  Hey Wan na ASS Berger .
    Reminds me of the movie Demolition Man when he found out he was eating a rat berger .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ASS BERGERS ???
  HOOOT.
  Hey Wanna ASS Berger.
    Reminds me of the movie Demolition Man when he found out he was eating  a rat berger.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240918</id>
	<title>If it were me...</title>
	<author>Alioth</author>
	<datestamp>1259240460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...If it were me, I wouldn't be being extradited: at the first hint of trouble, off to Venezuela - whatever a pit Venezuela is, it's not even a fraction as bad as US "pound me in the ass" prison. And Venezuela hates the United States and would never extradite.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...If it were me , I would n't be being extradited : at the first hint of trouble , off to Venezuela - whatever a pit Venezuela is , it 's not even a fraction as bad as US " pound me in the ass " prison .
And Venezuela hates the United States and would never extradite .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...If it were me, I wouldn't be being extradited: at the first hint of trouble, off to Venezuela - whatever a pit Venezuela is, it's not even a fraction as bad as US "pound me in the ass" prison.
And Venezuela hates the United States and would never extradite.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240780</id>
	<title>Re:UK citizen?</title>
	<author>Zocalo</author>
	<datestamp>1259239380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>+1 Informative.  While the UK-US extradition treaty is somewhat biased in favour of the US, this is precisely why is being extradited.  He's never denied commiting the crime, and frankly given what has been revealled about the incompetence of the US agencies involved I'm surprised that they still want all that dirty laundry aired in what will almost certainly be a media circus.<br> <br>

The reason the waters are so muddy is because some of McKinnon's supporters have made Aspergers out to be something that it is not; a get out of jail free card of some kind.  Contrary to what some of McKinnon's supporters might think, it does not in any way make it conceivable that McKinnon did not know right from wrong or understand the potential consequences of his actions.  The only thing is does is mean that he has some legitimate medical and psychological requirements that the US must be able to meet before the extradition can proceed, and since those are pretty easy to meet then, barring intervention from the EU, it's a done deal.<br> <br>

Personally, I think McKinnon's defense team royally screwed up.  Once he had admitted his guilt and the Asperger's diagnosis was made, they should have used that to press for a trial in the UK, against UK laws and sentencing guidelines, with any sentence also being served in the UK.  Both sides could have said that justice had been done, and McKinnon would have got off with a slap on the wrist and at worst a short sentence in a minimum security prison with time off for good behaviour, and quite possibly at the weekends as well.  All this would have been over years ago, and he'd have probably made a small fortune out of selling his story to the tabloids and publishing an auto-biography by now.</htmltext>
<tokenext>+ 1 Informative .
While the UK-US extradition treaty is somewhat biased in favour of the US , this is precisely why is being extradited .
He 's never denied commiting the crime , and frankly given what has been revealled about the incompetence of the US agencies involved I 'm surprised that they still want all that dirty laundry aired in what will almost certainly be a media circus .
The reason the waters are so muddy is because some of McKinnon 's supporters have made Aspergers out to be something that it is not ; a get out of jail free card of some kind .
Contrary to what some of McKinnon 's supporters might think , it does not in any way make it conceivable that McKinnon did not know right from wrong or understand the potential consequences of his actions .
The only thing is does is mean that he has some legitimate medical and psychological requirements that the US must be able to meet before the extradition can proceed , and since those are pretty easy to meet then , barring intervention from the EU , it 's a done deal .
Personally , I think McKinnon 's defense team royally screwed up .
Once he had admitted his guilt and the Asperger 's diagnosis was made , they should have used that to press for a trial in the UK , against UK laws and sentencing guidelines , with any sentence also being served in the UK .
Both sides could have said that justice had been done , and McKinnon would have got off with a slap on the wrist and at worst a short sentence in a minimum security prison with time off for good behaviour , and quite possibly at the weekends as well .
All this would have been over years ago , and he 'd have probably made a small fortune out of selling his story to the tabloids and publishing an auto-biography by now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>+1 Informative.
While the UK-US extradition treaty is somewhat biased in favour of the US, this is precisely why is being extradited.
He's never denied commiting the crime, and frankly given what has been revealled about the incompetence of the US agencies involved I'm surprised that they still want all that dirty laundry aired in what will almost certainly be a media circus.
The reason the waters are so muddy is because some of McKinnon's supporters have made Aspergers out to be something that it is not; a get out of jail free card of some kind.
Contrary to what some of McKinnon's supporters might think, it does not in any way make it conceivable that McKinnon did not know right from wrong or understand the potential consequences of his actions.
The only thing is does is mean that he has some legitimate medical and psychological requirements that the US must be able to meet before the extradition can proceed, and since those are pretty easy to meet then, barring intervention from the EU, it's a done deal.
Personally, I think McKinnon's defense team royally screwed up.
Once he had admitted his guilt and the Asperger's diagnosis was made, they should have used that to press for a trial in the UK, against UK laws and sentencing guidelines, with any sentence also being served in the UK.
Both sides could have said that justice had been done, and McKinnon would have got off with a slap on the wrist and at worst a short sentence in a minimum security prison with time off for good behaviour, and quite possibly at the weekends as well.
All this would have been over years ago, and he'd have probably made a small fortune out of selling his story to the tabloids and publishing an auto-biography by now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240562</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240724</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259239080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The same reason America refused to extradite IRA members known to have blown up innocent children with their bombing campaigns?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The same reason America refused to extradite IRA members known to have blown up innocent children with their bombing campaigns ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The same reason America refused to extradite IRA members known to have blown up innocent children with their bombing campaigns?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240658</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30244294</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>Tim C</author>
	<datestamp>1259323200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Never a-fucking-gain would I want to live with someone with the aspergers affectation.</i></p><p>Was that a typo, a mistake, or on purpose?</p><p>Affectation means it's put on - not real.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Never a-fucking-gain would I want to live with someone with the aspergers affectation.Was that a typo , a mistake , or on purpose ? Affectation means it 's put on - not real .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Never a-fucking-gain would I want to live with someone with the aspergers affectation.Was that a typo, a mistake, or on purpose?Affectation means it's put on - not real.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240886</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241076</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259241600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As noted above, that football fan was clearly framed; someone else admitted to the offense.
<br>
<br>
In the case of the Lockerbie bomber, he <i>is</i> dying, and was sent home only after he agreed to drop his appeal; part of a legal process which has come under increasing scrutiny in recent years for legal abnomalities, dodgy witnesses, and political involvement. See Private Eye's recently republished report for more details.<br> <br>
What we should be angry about is the kind of political involvement in the legal process which serves to cover up the legal and data-security failures of foreign powers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As noted above , that football fan was clearly framed ; someone else admitted to the offense .
In the case of the Lockerbie bomber , he is dying , and was sent home only after he agreed to drop his appeal ; part of a legal process which has come under increasing scrutiny in recent years for legal abnomalities , dodgy witnesses , and political involvement .
See Private Eye 's recently republished report for more details .
What we should be angry about is the kind of political involvement in the legal process which serves to cover up the legal and data-security failures of foreign powers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As noted above, that football fan was clearly framed; someone else admitted to the offense.
In the case of the Lockerbie bomber, he is dying, and was sent home only after he agreed to drop his appeal; part of a legal process which has come under increasing scrutiny in recent years for legal abnomalities, dodgy witnesses, and political involvement.
See Private Eye's recently republished report for more details.
What we should be angry about is the kind of political involvement in the legal process which serves to cover up the legal and data-security failures of foreign powers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240604</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30245968</id>
	<title>Re:Extradition to countries that practice torture?</title>
	<author>Simetrical</author>
	<datestamp>1259340420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I though there was a UN convention that prohibited extradition to countries that practice torture or won't give a person due process.</p></div><p>The <a href="http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/cat.htm" title="ohchr.org">Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment</a> [ohchr.org] says, in Section 3.1, "No State Party shall expel, return ('refouler') or extradite a person to another State where there are substantial grounds for believing that he would be in danger of being subjected to torture."  The treaty permits extradition to a state that practices torture as long as you think the particular person you're extraditing won't be tortured.  Similarly, I believe EU countries generally won't extradite anyone to the US if they would face capital punishment, but will extradite them if the US agrees that they won't be executed.

</p><p>Given the diplomatic repercussions if this guy were tortured (i.e., the UK not extraditing anyone anymore), it's unlikely.  It really wouldn't be worth it for the US to torture him, given that they gain nothing (it's not like he knows anything) and stand to lose a lot.  It might happen, I guess, but I doubt it's likely enough to violate the Convention.  Although IANAL, of course.

</p><p>I'm not aware of any UN convention that prohibits extradition to countries that won't give a person "due process", but one might exist.  UK law is more relevant here, though, since most treaties of this sort don't have intranational dispute resolution mechanisms.  The Convention against Torture provides a means of arbitration in Article 30, but only if there's a dispute between states, not if a citizen thinks his own state is violating the treaty.  So if the UK and EU decide the extradition doesn't violate any laws or treaties, there's no further recourse in practice.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I though there was a UN convention that prohibited extradition to countries that practice torture or wo n't give a person due process.The Convention against Torture and Other Cruel , Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment [ ohchr.org ] says , in Section 3.1 , " No State Party shall expel , return ( 'refouler ' ) or extradite a person to another State where there are substantial grounds for believing that he would be in danger of being subjected to torture .
" The treaty permits extradition to a state that practices torture as long as you think the particular person you 're extraditing wo n't be tortured .
Similarly , I believe EU countries generally wo n't extradite anyone to the US if they would face capital punishment , but will extradite them if the US agrees that they wo n't be executed .
Given the diplomatic repercussions if this guy were tortured ( i.e. , the UK not extraditing anyone anymore ) , it 's unlikely .
It really would n't be worth it for the US to torture him , given that they gain nothing ( it 's not like he knows anything ) and stand to lose a lot .
It might happen , I guess , but I doubt it 's likely enough to violate the Convention .
Although IANAL , of course .
I 'm not aware of any UN convention that prohibits extradition to countries that wo n't give a person " due process " , but one might exist .
UK law is more relevant here , though , since most treaties of this sort do n't have intranational dispute resolution mechanisms .
The Convention against Torture provides a means of arbitration in Article 30 , but only if there 's a dispute between states , not if a citizen thinks his own state is violating the treaty .
So if the UK and EU decide the extradition does n't violate any laws or treaties , there 's no further recourse in practice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I though there was a UN convention that prohibited extradition to countries that practice torture or won't give a person due process.The Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment [ohchr.org] says, in Section 3.1, "No State Party shall expel, return ('refouler') or extradite a person to another State where there are substantial grounds for believing that he would be in danger of being subjected to torture.
"  The treaty permits extradition to a state that practices torture as long as you think the particular person you're extraditing won't be tortured.
Similarly, I believe EU countries generally won't extradite anyone to the US if they would face capital punishment, but will extradite them if the US agrees that they won't be executed.
Given the diplomatic repercussions if this guy were tortured (i.e., the UK not extraditing anyone anymore), it's unlikely.
It really wouldn't be worth it for the US to torture him, given that they gain nothing (it's not like he knows anything) and stand to lose a lot.
It might happen, I guess, but I doubt it's likely enough to violate the Convention.
Although IANAL, of course.
I'm not aware of any UN convention that prohibits extradition to countries that won't give a person "due process", but one might exist.
UK law is more relevant here, though, since most treaties of this sort don't have intranational dispute resolution mechanisms.
The Convention against Torture provides a means of arbitration in Article 30, but only if there's a dispute between states, not if a citizen thinks his own state is violating the treaty.
So if the UK and EU decide the extradition doesn't violate any laws or treaties, there's no further recourse in practice.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30242106</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>zevans</author>
	<datestamp>1259251800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Did he cause damage? Or did he just break into systems and look at stuff? Genuine question.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did he cause damage ?
Or did he just break into systems and look at stuff ?
Genuine question .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did he cause damage?
Or did he just break into systems and look at stuff?
Genuine question.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240682</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30252270</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>orngjce223</author>
	<datestamp>1259340480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Should we modify this analogy to take into account "guessing passwords", all he did was stick a key blank -into- the lock.  Didn't even file it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Should we modify this analogy to take into account " guessing passwords " , all he did was stick a key blank -into- the lock .
Did n't even file it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Should we modify this analogy to take into account "guessing passwords", all he did was stick a key blank -into- the lock.
Didn't even file it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241190</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30242386</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>AHuxley</author>
	<datestamp>1259254800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>He seemed to use a 56k modem and a MS default password perl script. <br> Seems the US gov likes to hand out MS based systems like candy on its bases and wonders why they are so wide open 24/7.</htmltext>
<tokenext>He seemed to use a 56k modem and a MS default password perl script .
Seems the US gov likes to hand out MS based systems like candy on its bases and wonders why they are so wide open 24/7 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He seemed to use a 56k modem and a MS default password perl script.
Seems the US gov likes to hand out MS based systems like candy on its bases and wonders why they are so wide open 24/7.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30242106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240734</id>
	<title>Fuck Muahamad</title>
	<author>Nicolas MONNET</author>
	<datestamp>1259239140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I guess I should be extradited to Saudi Arabia since that message can be read from there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I guess I should be extradited to Saudi Arabia since that message can be read from there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I guess I should be extradited to Saudi Arabia since that message can be read from there.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240658</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30242290</id>
	<title>Re:Disgusting, gross injustice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259253840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You Europeans were pussies way before you became our vassals.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You Europeans were pussies way before you became our vassals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You Europeans were pussies way before you became our vassals.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241750</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241244</id>
	<title>Re:UK citizen?</title>
	<author>Nicolas MONNET</author>
	<datestamp>1259243040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't believe Germany extradites its own citizens anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't believe Germany extradites its own citizens anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't believe Germany extradites its own citizens anyway.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240920</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240660</id>
	<title>Well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259238600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...if he was doing something against the law...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...if he was doing something against the law.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...if he was doing something against the law...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241106</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>couchslug</author>
	<datestamp>1259241840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"If I was his defense attorney, it sure the hell would."</p><p>If he loses, at least sue the prison for not providing a hugbox...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" If I was his defense attorney , it sure the hell would .
" If he loses , at least sue the prison for not providing a hugbox.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"If I was his defense attorney, it sure the hell would.
"If he loses, at least sue the prison for not providing a hugbox...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240536</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240698</id>
	<title>Re:UK citizen?</title>
	<author>MichaelSmith</author>
	<datestamp>1259238900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If I go to country X and commit A crime I would expect to be processed through the local justice system. If I skip the country before I am caught I would expect to be extradited back. That is what extradition was designed for.</p><p>This guy knowingly committed a crime on a system in the US while in the UK so I can see that there is an argument for extraditing him to the US, even though he may never have been to that country.</p><p>But it is easy to raise corner cases when dealing with networks. People have been accused of hacking when they used common exploits like rewriting URLs  to bypass security. To take an extreme example: could I be extradited from Australia to Saudi Arabia for fixing a borken URL when buying a product on line from a system hosted in Saudi? What if I didn't know where the site was hosted and didn't know the laws there?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If I go to country X and commit A crime I would expect to be processed through the local justice system .
If I skip the country before I am caught I would expect to be extradited back .
That is what extradition was designed for.This guy knowingly committed a crime on a system in the US while in the UK so I can see that there is an argument for extraditing him to the US , even though he may never have been to that country.But it is easy to raise corner cases when dealing with networks .
People have been accused of hacking when they used common exploits like rewriting URLs to bypass security .
To take an extreme example : could I be extradited from Australia to Saudi Arabia for fixing a borken URL when buying a product on line from a system hosted in Saudi ?
What if I did n't know where the site was hosted and did n't know the laws there ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I go to country X and commit A crime I would expect to be processed through the local justice system.
If I skip the country before I am caught I would expect to be extradited back.
That is what extradition was designed for.This guy knowingly committed a crime on a system in the US while in the UK so I can see that there is an argument for extraditing him to the US, even though he may never have been to that country.But it is easy to raise corner cases when dealing with networks.
People have been accused of hacking when they used common exploits like rewriting URLs  to bypass security.
To take an extreme example: could I be extradited from Australia to Saudi Arabia for fixing a borken URL when buying a product on line from a system hosted in Saudi?
What if I didn't know where the site was hosted and didn't know the laws there?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240562</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241162</id>
	<title>Re:$700,000</title>
	<author>BonquiquiShiquavius</author>
	<datestamp>1259242320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>My analogy would be that it's like the owner of a stolen <i> <b>car</b></i>  having to spend $700,000 on a <i> <b>secure garage</b></i>  after realizing that keeping the <i> <b>car on the street with the keys in the ignition</b></i>  is inadequate.</p></div><p>Sorry it took so long for the fix...I got on it as soon as I realized the anguish a non-car analogy would cause on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>My analogy would be that it 's like the owner of a stolen car having to spend $ 700,000 on a secure garage after realizing that keeping the car on the street with the keys in the ignition is inadequate.Sorry it took so long for the fix...I got on it as soon as I realized the anguish a non-car analogy would cause on / .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My analogy would be that it's like the owner of a stolen  car  having to spend $700,000 on a  secure garage  after realizing that keeping the  car on the street with the keys in the ignition  is inadequate.Sorry it took so long for the fix...I got on it as soon as I realized the anguish a non-car analogy would cause on /.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240654</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240604</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259238180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hypocrisy is totally on the other side -- UK won't dispense justice to a Brit who commits a crime abroad, even if there is a sentence. Instead, the convict will be pardoned ahead of the next local election, and their justice minister will claim "new" "evidence", or a mercy release due to some scary rare disease or something. </p><p>For recent examples of British justice see the case of the football fan who knocked out a guy with a stone in some European backwater country, got a lengthy prison sentence, got sent home to serve it out in a UK prison and was promptly pardoned because of pressure from the local "community". For the weird disease, has the Lockerbie bomber died recently? He had weeks to live some months ago, IIRC.</p><p>The British asshole should have thought about his medical condition before he hacked into those servers, no?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hypocrisy is totally on the other side -- UK wo n't dispense justice to a Brit who commits a crime abroad , even if there is a sentence .
Instead , the convict will be pardoned ahead of the next local election , and their justice minister will claim " new " " evidence " , or a mercy release due to some scary rare disease or something .
For recent examples of British justice see the case of the football fan who knocked out a guy with a stone in some European backwater country , got a lengthy prison sentence , got sent home to serve it out in a UK prison and was promptly pardoned because of pressure from the local " community " .
For the weird disease , has the Lockerbie bomber died recently ?
He had weeks to live some months ago , IIRC.The British asshole should have thought about his medical condition before he hacked into those servers , no ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hypocrisy is totally on the other side -- UK won't dispense justice to a Brit who commits a crime abroad, even if there is a sentence.
Instead, the convict will be pardoned ahead of the next local election, and their justice minister will claim "new" "evidence", or a mercy release due to some scary rare disease or something.
For recent examples of British justice see the case of the football fan who knocked out a guy with a stone in some European backwater country, got a lengthy prison sentence, got sent home to serve it out in a UK prison and was promptly pardoned because of pressure from the local "community".
For the weird disease, has the Lockerbie bomber died recently?
He had weeks to live some months ago, IIRC.The British asshole should have thought about his medical condition before he hacked into those servers, no?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30242656</id>
	<title>Re:Extradition to countries that practice torture?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259257380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Given the US recent track record on torture and the probability that he will be tried in a military court it should be fairly easy to get his extradition cancelled.</p></div><p>Seriously, name me a country that hasn't be accused of doing something shady in the last 10 years, and I'll show you a misinformed opinion. India? HA. Canada? Even admitted to it, and gave the guy some money to say sorry. Britain? WOW, Big Brother never does anything wrong. Any latin american countries? Why even bother? Anywhere in eastern europe? Nope. France? Lets talk about burkas and immigration. Italie? again, seriously? The middle east?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... well, I guess techincally they're being run by the americans as well<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...<br> <br>anyways, glass houses and rocks don't mix.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Given the US recent track record on torture and the probability that he will be tried in a military court it should be fairly easy to get his extradition cancelled.Seriously , name me a country that has n't be accused of doing something shady in the last 10 years , and I 'll show you a misinformed opinion .
India ? HA .
Canada ? Even admitted to it , and gave the guy some money to say sorry .
Britain ? WOW , Big Brother never does anything wrong .
Any latin american countries ?
Why even bother ?
Anywhere in eastern europe ?
Nope. France ?
Lets talk about burkas and immigration .
Italie ? again , seriously ?
The middle east ?
... well , I guess techincally they 're being run by the americans as well ... anyways , glass houses and rocks do n't mix .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Given the US recent track record on torture and the probability that he will be tried in a military court it should be fairly easy to get his extradition cancelled.Seriously, name me a country that hasn't be accused of doing something shady in the last 10 years, and I'll show you a misinformed opinion.
India? HA.
Canada? Even admitted to it, and gave the guy some money to say sorry.
Britain? WOW, Big Brother never does anything wrong.
Any latin american countries?
Why even bother?
Anywhere in eastern europe?
Nope. France?
Lets talk about burkas and immigration.
Italie? again, seriously?
The middle east?
... well, I guess techincally they're being run by the americans as well ... anyways, glass houses and rocks don't mix.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30242790</id>
	<title>"Virtually certain"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259259180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Extradition to the US will make his death 'virtually certain'?</p><p>I always thought all living beings had 'virtually certain' mortality?</p><p>Lock him up in a laboratory and extract the secrets of immortality from him immediately!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Extradition to the US will make his death 'virtually certain ' ? I always thought all living beings had 'virtually certain ' mortality ? Lock him up in a laboratory and extract the secrets of immortality from him immediately !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Extradition to the US will make his death 'virtually certain'?I always thought all living beings had 'virtually certain' mortality?Lock him up in a laboratory and extract the secrets of immortality from him immediately!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240512</id>
	<title>UK citizen?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259237460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have not read much on this case, from skimming his wikipedia page</p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary\_McKinnon" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary\_McKinnon</a> [wikipedia.org]<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...it seems he is a UK citizen, right? Why would the UK extradite a citizen to the US? If it were the other way around I think an extradition would be very unlikely.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have not read much on this case , from skimming his wikipedia pagehttp : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary \ _McKinnon [ wikipedia.org ] ...it seems he is a UK citizen , right ?
Why would the UK extradite a citizen to the US ?
If it were the other way around I think an extradition would be very unlikely .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have not read much on this case, from skimming his wikipedia pagehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary\_McKinnon [wikipedia.org] ...it seems he is a UK citizen, right?
Why would the UK extradite a citizen to the US?
If it were the other way around I think an extradition would be very unlikely.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240708</id>
	<title>Re:UK citizen?</title>
	<author>dbcad7</author>
	<datestamp>1259238960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I am against it, not because I don't think hacking is a crime, but because those seeking to extradite him are not thinking.. Exactly what is to be gained here ?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... All that will be accomplished is to spend more money trying him, and housing him in prison.. and all this could be done in the UK, on their dime, with tax money paid by their citizens.. As to getting back the 700k, you have just as much chance of getting it by suing him there... We have enough criminals in prison here.. we don't need to import them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I am against it , not because I do n't think hacking is a crime , but because those seeking to extradite him are not thinking.. Exactly what is to be gained here ?
... All that will be accomplished is to spend more money trying him , and housing him in prison.. and all this could be done in the UK , on their dime , with tax money paid by their citizens.. As to getting back the 700k , you have just as much chance of getting it by suing him there... We have enough criminals in prison here.. we do n't need to import them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am against it, not because I don't think hacking is a crime, but because those seeking to extradite him are not thinking.. Exactly what is to be gained here ?
... All that will be accomplished is to spend more money trying him, and housing him in prison.. and all this could be done in the UK, on their dime, with tax money paid by their citizens.. As to getting back the 700k, you have just as much chance of getting it by suing him there... We have enough criminals in prison here.. we don't need to import them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240562</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30244256</id>
	<title>So anyone who threathens suicide</title>
	<author>SmallFurryCreature</author>
	<datestamp>1259322600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So anyone who might commit suicide, gets a "get out jail free" card from you. At what crime do you draw the line I wonder? If I killed you and then said "oh I am going to end it all" should I walk free?
</p><p>I don't think the world can work as you seem to want it to work. Oh and if he was going to kill himself over the stress, why hasn't he killed himself yet, over the stress?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So anyone who might commit suicide , gets a " get out jail free " card from you .
At what crime do you draw the line I wonder ?
If I killed you and then said " oh I am going to end it all " should I walk free ?
I do n't think the world can work as you seem to want it to work .
Oh and if he was going to kill himself over the stress , why has n't he killed himself yet , over the stress ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So anyone who might commit suicide, gets a "get out jail free" card from you.
At what crime do you draw the line I wonder?
If I killed you and then said "oh I am going to end it all" should I walk free?
I don't think the world can work as you seem to want it to work.
Oh and if he was going to kill himself over the stress, why hasn't he killed himself yet, over the stress?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240528</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240536</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259237700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If I was his defense attorney, it sure the hell would.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If I was his defense attorney , it sure the hell would .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I was his defense attorney, it sure the hell would.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30244598</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>allcoolnameswheretak</author>
	<datestamp>1259328120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In fact, I think he was doing the US Army a service. If it wasn't him ho broke in the weakly protected PCs, it might have been the chinese.</p><p>Heck, the chinese probably walk in and out of those PCs like tourists on Tiananmen Square.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In fact , I think he was doing the US Army a service .
If it was n't him ho broke in the weakly protected PCs , it might have been the chinese.Heck , the chinese probably walk in and out of those PCs like tourists on Tiananmen Square .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In fact, I think he was doing the US Army a service.
If it wasn't him ho broke in the weakly protected PCs, it might have been the chinese.Heck, the chinese probably walk in and out of those PCs like tourists on Tiananmen Square.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240776</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240920</id>
	<title>Re:UK citizen?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259240460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I honestly don't understand why so many people think he shouldn't be extradited. The way most extradition treaties work is if you commit a crime in or against a country with which you have an extradition treaty, and if that crime is also a crime in your home country, then you are extradited.</p></div><p>In German law, there are the following requirements: <br>
1. It must be a crime according to German law. (Check)<br>
2. It must happened in the country that asks for extradition. (Check. The hacking would be assumed to happen where it took effect, that is in the USA). <br>
3. There must be a guarantee for a fair trial (Definitely not. He'll do time not for hacking, but for embarrassing the US military).<br>
4. No cruel or unusual punishment (50 years for hacking would be considered both cruel and unusual). <br>
5. No extradition if the extradition itself is worse than a reasonable punishment. (There is a strong argument for that)<br> <br>
Looks like very good reasons to not extradite. Of course in the UK there is this "special relationship" between Tony Blair and George Bush which overrides everything else.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I honestly do n't understand why so many people think he should n't be extradited .
The way most extradition treaties work is if you commit a crime in or against a country with which you have an extradition treaty , and if that crime is also a crime in your home country , then you are extradited.In German law , there are the following requirements : 1 .
It must be a crime according to German law .
( Check ) 2 .
It must happened in the country that asks for extradition .
( Check. The hacking would be assumed to happen where it took effect , that is in the USA ) .
3. There must be a guarantee for a fair trial ( Definitely not .
He 'll do time not for hacking , but for embarrassing the US military ) .
4. No cruel or unusual punishment ( 50 years for hacking would be considered both cruel and unusual ) .
5. No extradition if the extradition itself is worse than a reasonable punishment .
( There is a strong argument for that ) Looks like very good reasons to not extradite .
Of course in the UK there is this " special relationship " between Tony Blair and George Bush which overrides everything else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I honestly don't understand why so many people think he shouldn't be extradited.
The way most extradition treaties work is if you commit a crime in or against a country with which you have an extradition treaty, and if that crime is also a crime in your home country, then you are extradited.In German law, there are the following requirements: 
1.
It must be a crime according to German law.
(Check)
2.
It must happened in the country that asks for extradition.
(Check. The hacking would be assumed to happen where it took effect, that is in the USA).
3. There must be a guarantee for a fair trial (Definitely not.
He'll do time not for hacking, but for embarrassing the US military).
4. No cruel or unusual punishment (50 years for hacking would be considered both cruel and unusual).
5. No extradition if the extradition itself is worse than a reasonable punishment.
(There is a strong argument for that) 
Looks like very good reasons to not extradite.
Of course in the UK there is this "special relationship" between Tony Blair and George Bush which overrides everything else.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240562</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241196</id>
	<title>Re:$700,000</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259242680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The $700,000 figure is being bandied about by both the US Government and the press. But remember, the "perp" has yet to stand trial. This is an issue that will come up at trial (along with others), and so it as yet has no real meaning other than <b>PR jockeying</b>. In the end, it may have no effect on acquittal or conviction at all.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The $ 700,000 figure is being bandied about by both the US Government and the press .
But remember , the " perp " has yet to stand trial .
This is an issue that will come up at trial ( along with others ) , and so it as yet has no real meaning other than PR jockeying .
In the end , it may have no effect on acquittal or conviction at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The $700,000 figure is being bandied about by both the US Government and the press.
But remember, the "perp" has yet to stand trial.
This is an issue that will come up at trial (along with others), and so it as yet has no real meaning other than PR jockeying.
In the end, it may have no effect on acquittal or conviction at all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240654</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240706</id>
	<title>Re:So let's just forget about a fair trial!</title>
	<author>rainsford</author>
	<datestamp>1259238960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>He DID commit a crime in a foreign country.  He hacked into US computers located on US soil.  The fact that the Internet makes it easier to attack a foreign entity from your own country shouldn't matter.  We wouldn't be having this discussion if this guy had managed to build a missile and hit the Pentagon from the UK.</htmltext>
<tokenext>He DID commit a crime in a foreign country .
He hacked into US computers located on US soil .
The fact that the Internet makes it easier to attack a foreign entity from your own country should n't matter .
We would n't be having this discussion if this guy had managed to build a missile and hit the Pentagon from the UK .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He DID commit a crime in a foreign country.
He hacked into US computers located on US soil.
The fact that the Internet makes it easier to attack a foreign entity from your own country shouldn't matter.
We wouldn't be having this discussion if this guy had managed to build a missile and hit the Pentagon from the UK.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240528</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30242582</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>FragHARD</author>
	<datestamp>1259256780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Because 0bama want to do something....before it's too late...We have to do something !!! Think of the children!!!!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Because 0bama want to do something....before it 's too late...We have to do something ! ! !
Think of the children ! ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because 0bama want to do something....before it's too late...We have to do something !!!
Think of the children!!!
!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30244096</id>
	<title>Well...</title>
	<author>davidmcg</author>
	<datestamp>1259319840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I personally believe that the US just want to give him a huge scare.  They want to make him believe that he is going to be severely punished for his crimes.  What I think will happen is that he will be extradited, but the punishment won't be as severe as the US have led him to believe.  In the end, I think the US will believe that he has been punished enough and either give him a substantial fine or 6 months in prison and then let him go.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I personally believe that the US just want to give him a huge scare .
They want to make him believe that he is going to be severely punished for his crimes .
What I think will happen is that he will be extradited , but the punishment wo n't be as severe as the US have led him to believe .
In the end , I think the US will believe that he has been punished enough and either give him a substantial fine or 6 months in prison and then let him go .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I personally believe that the US just want to give him a huge scare.
They want to make him believe that he is going to be severely punished for his crimes.
What I think will happen is that he will be extradited, but the punishment won't be as severe as the US have led him to believe.
In the end, I think the US will believe that he has been punished enough and either give him a substantial fine or 6 months in prison and then let him go.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30242618</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>Auroch</author>
	<datestamp>1259257080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Or, if you want to take the view that the servers were on US soil, why have people posting to US servers been prosecuted in Britain for hate speech? You can't have it both ways.</p></div><p>Obviously, you can.  Did you really believe that britain and the US would sleep together for so long, and not have any attachment?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Or , if you want to take the view that the servers were on US soil , why have people posting to US servers been prosecuted in Britain for hate speech ?
You ca n't have it both ways.Obviously , you can .
Did you really believe that britain and the US would sleep together for so long , and not have any attachment ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or, if you want to take the view that the servers were on US soil, why have people posting to US servers been prosecuted in Britain for hate speech?
You can't have it both ways.Obviously, you can.
Did you really believe that britain and the US would sleep together for so long, and not have any attachment?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30242140</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259252340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>tl;dr: He should go to a <a href="http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pmita" title="urbandictionary.com" rel="nofollow">PMITA</a> [urbandictionary.com] prison.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>tl ; dr : He should go to a PMITA [ urbandictionary.com ] prison .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>tl;dr: He should go to a PMITA [urbandictionary.com] prison.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240682</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30242214</id>
	<title>Re:UK citizen?</title>
	<author>roguetrick</author>
	<datestamp>1259253240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1458542&amp;cid=30240876" title="slashdot.org">http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1458542&amp;cid=30240876</a> [slashdot.org]</p><p>As you can see, El Reg tells it that extradition from the US is quite common.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl ? sid = 1458542&amp;cid = 30240876 [ slashdot.org ] As you can see , El Reg tells it that extradition from the US is quite common .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1458542&amp;cid=30240876 [slashdot.org]As you can see, El Reg tells it that extradition from the US is quite common.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30242086</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259251560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> but just managed to \_guess\_ dozens of passwords.</p> </div><p>That's called "hacking". When you "guess" (hack) passwords to access (break into) computers that are not yours, you break the law. Simple fact. You know, I leave my door unlocks, it's not an invetation for you to come in and go through my underwear drawer.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>but just managed to \ _guess \ _ dozens of passwords .
That 's called " hacking " .
When you " guess " ( hack ) passwords to access ( break into ) computers that are not yours , you break the law .
Simple fact .
You know , I leave my door unlocks , it 's not an invetation for you to come in and go through my underwear drawer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> but just managed to \_guess\_ dozens of passwords.
That's called "hacking".
When you "guess" (hack) passwords to access (break into) computers that are not yours, you break the law.
Simple fact.
You know, I leave my door unlocks, it's not an invetation for you to come in and go through my underwear drawer.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240776</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30255008</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>shentino</author>
	<datestamp>1259429160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's more like an act of war.</p><p>The target was military.</p><p>Considering the recent cyber-attacks from China...</p><p>Naturally of course NOT backing down once a threat is realized as not there is bullshit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's more like an act of war.The target was military.Considering the recent cyber-attacks from China...Naturally of course NOT backing down once a threat is realized as not there is bullshit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's more like an act of war.The target was military.Considering the recent cyber-attacks from China...Naturally of course NOT backing down once a threat is realized as not there is bullshit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240794</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30243628</id>
	<title>Re:Awesome job!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259314320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think he meant Stella, the girl who apparently does the editing</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think he meant Stella , the girl who apparently does the editing</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think he meant Stella, the girl who apparently does the editing</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240992</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30244940</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259332740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It doesn't matter how he did it. It was illegal to do. He knew it. He did it anyway. He got caught.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It does n't matter how he did it .
It was illegal to do .
He knew it .
He did it anyway .
He got caught .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It doesn't matter how he did it.
It was illegal to do.
He knew it.
He did it anyway.
He got caught.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240776</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240892</id>
	<title>Better not say anything about China then...</title>
	<author>Hairy1</author>
	<datestamp>1259240220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Imagine if there were an extradition treaty with China. Suddenly people in the US and UK who spoke out about human rights, which is totally legal in those countries, could be extradited for breaking Chinese law.</p><p>My question is quite simple: If this individual is a British person, living in England, never going to the US, how can the US Government ever have the right to prosecute him?  Sounds like he broke British law, and should be charged there. It sets a very dangerous president.</p><p>Perhaps Iraq could pass a law against torture and extradite former President Bush for his crimes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Imagine if there were an extradition treaty with China .
Suddenly people in the US and UK who spoke out about human rights , which is totally legal in those countries , could be extradited for breaking Chinese law.My question is quite simple : If this individual is a British person , living in England , never going to the US , how can the US Government ever have the right to prosecute him ?
Sounds like he broke British law , and should be charged there .
It sets a very dangerous president.Perhaps Iraq could pass a law against torture and extradite former President Bush for his crimes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Imagine if there were an extradition treaty with China.
Suddenly people in the US and UK who spoke out about human rights, which is totally legal in those countries, could be extradited for breaking Chinese law.My question is quite simple: If this individual is a British person, living in England, never going to the US, how can the US Government ever have the right to prosecute him?
Sounds like he broke British law, and should be charged there.
It sets a very dangerous president.Perhaps Iraq could pass a law against torture and extradite former President Bush for his crimes.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240560</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259237940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am sorry but I don't believe that anyone seriously puts hate speech in the same basket as hacking into the pentagon.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am sorry but I do n't believe that anyone seriously puts hate speech in the same basket as hacking into the pentagon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am sorry but I don't believe that anyone seriously puts hate speech in the same basket as hacking into the pentagon.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30242248</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>phayes</author>
	<datestamp>1259253600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The twit has been plotting from the beginning to beat the system.</p><p>First he trespasses onto US govt property looking for information that only he "knows" is there.</p><p>When identified, he tries to blow it off as a victimless prank &amp; refuses to assume any responsability.</p><p>When informed that it was a serious crime for the USG &amp; that he would be better off copping a plea he attempts to use GWB's unpopularity to his benefit by attempting to be a poor poor little guy who is being abused by the big bad mean USG.</p><p>When that doesn't work he's suddenly diagnosed as an aspie, so it's not his fault.</p><p>We all know that had he attempted to assume responsability for his actions the USG would have made some motions of clemancy. After his continual refusal to accept any responsbility for his actions, he can expect none.</p><p>I can't wait to see him finally get what he deserves.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The twit has been plotting from the beginning to beat the system.First he trespasses onto US govt property looking for information that only he " knows " is there.When identified , he tries to blow it off as a victimless prank &amp; refuses to assume any responsability.When informed that it was a serious crime for the USG &amp; that he would be better off copping a plea he attempts to use GWB 's unpopularity to his benefit by attempting to be a poor poor little guy who is being abused by the big bad mean USG.When that does n't work he 's suddenly diagnosed as an aspie , so it 's not his fault.We all know that had he attempted to assume responsability for his actions the USG would have made some motions of clemancy .
After his continual refusal to accept any responsbility for his actions , he can expect none.I ca n't wait to see him finally get what he deserves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The twit has been plotting from the beginning to beat the system.First he trespasses onto US govt property looking for information that only he "knows" is there.When identified, he tries to blow it off as a victimless prank &amp; refuses to assume any responsability.When informed that it was a serious crime for the USG &amp; that he would be better off copping a plea he attempts to use GWB's unpopularity to his benefit by attempting to be a poor poor little guy who is being abused by the big bad mean USG.When that doesn't work he's suddenly diagnosed as an aspie, so it's not his fault.We all know that had he attempted to assume responsability for his actions the USG would have made some motions of clemancy.
After his continual refusal to accept any responsbility for his actions, he can expect none.I can't wait to see him finally get what he deserves.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240846</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240608</id>
	<title>Extradition to countries that practice torture?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259238240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I though there was a UN convention that prohibited extradition to countries that practice torture or won't give a person due process. Given the US recent track record on torture and the probability that he will be tried in a military court it should be fairly easy to get his extradition cancelled. But then again, the US and the UK are not all that much different and if closer together would probably become a single country. Maybe he should appeal to the EU court for the protection of Human Rights in Geneva and he probably will. This dude will be in prison for a very long time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I though there was a UN convention that prohibited extradition to countries that practice torture or wo n't give a person due process .
Given the US recent track record on torture and the probability that he will be tried in a military court it should be fairly easy to get his extradition cancelled .
But then again , the US and the UK are not all that much different and if closer together would probably become a single country .
Maybe he should appeal to the EU court for the protection of Human Rights in Geneva and he probably will .
This dude will be in prison for a very long time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I though there was a UN convention that prohibited extradition to countries that practice torture or won't give a person due process.
Given the US recent track record on torture and the probability that he will be tried in a military court it should be fairly easy to get his extradition cancelled.
But then again, the US and the UK are not all that much different and if closer together would probably become a single country.
Maybe he should appeal to the EU court for the protection of Human Rights in Geneva and he probably will.
This dude will be in prison for a very long time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240422</id>
	<title>Good grief!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259236860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>...and Asperger's sufferer...</p></div><p>This has NOTHING to do with this issue.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...and Asperger 's sufferer...This has NOTHING to do with this issue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ...and Asperger's sufferer...This has NOTHING to do with this issue.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240938</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>citizenr</author>
	<datestamp>1259240580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The crime took place on British soil.  Why is he being extradited?</p><p>Or, if you want to take the view that the servers were on US soil, why have people posting to US servers been prosecuted in Britain for hate speech?  You can't have it both ways.</p></div><p>Actually you can have it three ways, just google "cia kidnapping italy"</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The crime took place on British soil .
Why is he being extradited ? Or , if you want to take the view that the servers were on US soil , why have people posting to US servers been prosecuted in Britain for hate speech ?
You ca n't have it both ways.Actually you can have it three ways , just google " cia kidnapping italy "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The crime took place on British soil.
Why is he being extradited?Or, if you want to take the view that the servers were on US soil, why have people posting to US servers been prosecuted in Britain for hate speech?
You can't have it both ways.Actually you can have it three ways, just google "cia kidnapping italy"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30244724</id>
	<title>Re:Is he immortal?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259330220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm 100\% certain YOU are going to die.  So am I.</p><p>At some point in the future.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm 100 \ % certain YOU are going to die .
So am I.At some point in the future .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm 100\% certain YOU are going to die.
So am I.At some point in the future.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240990</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241000</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>Karganeth</author>
	<datestamp>1259240940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's not hypocritical.  It's contradictory...  lots of people mix these up.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not hypocritical .
It 's contradictory... lots of people mix these up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not hypocritical.
It's contradictory...  lots of people mix these up.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241188</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>MakinBacon</author>
	<datestamp>1259242500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If another country's government had hacked into pentagon computers, it could be interpreted as an act of war.  This one man has essentially made war with the US, so he should be brought to justice on US soil.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If another country 's government had hacked into pentagon computers , it could be interpreted as an act of war .
This one man has essentially made war with the US , so he should be brought to justice on US soil .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If another country's government had hacked into pentagon computers, it could be interpreted as an act of war.
This one man has essentially made war with the US, so he should be brought to justice on US soil.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30244312</id>
	<title>Re:$700,000</title>
	<author>ConfusedVorlon</author>
	<datestamp>1259323560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>it has huge meaning.</p><p>the $700,000 is required for the crimes to be large enough to make extradition legal.</p><p>it's a big problem that the figure doesn't get tested in any way by a british court. If it was possible to prove that the damage low enough - then it would not be legal to extradite him.</p><p>Unfortunately, the us prosecutor can simply state the figure and demand extradition without having to justify the figure or present any supporting evidence.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>it has huge meaning.the $ 700,000 is required for the crimes to be large enough to make extradition legal.it 's a big problem that the figure does n't get tested in any way by a british court .
If it was possible to prove that the damage low enough - then it would not be legal to extradite him.Unfortunately , the us prosecutor can simply state the figure and demand extradition without having to justify the figure or present any supporting evidence .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it has huge meaning.the $700,000 is required for the crimes to be large enough to make extradition legal.it's a big problem that the figure doesn't get tested in any way by a british court.
If it was possible to prove that the damage low enough - then it would not be legal to extradite him.Unfortunately, the us prosecutor can simply state the figure and demand extradition without having to justify the figure or present any supporting evidence.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241196</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241092</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259241720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you live on US soil but sent a bomb to the UK. Where should you be charged?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you live on US soil but sent a bomb to the UK .
Where should you be charged ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you live on US soil but sent a bomb to the UK.
Where should you be charged?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240750</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259239260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Moral of the story: Governments will prosecute what they think they can win when they think they can win where they think they can win. The US will probably seek to extradite UK citizens who screw up US servers and vice versa. This is partly due to the fact that jurisdiction in the digital age is an absolute bitch; maybe in 10 years the laws will have caught up to the late 90s.</p><p>Prosecuting hate speech, however, is likely to be a British phenomenon, and they're likely to be very...british about it. I highly recommend a constitution with amendments protecting free speech in the future.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Moral of the story : Governments will prosecute what they think they can win when they think they can win where they think they can win .
The US will probably seek to extradite UK citizens who screw up US servers and vice versa .
This is partly due to the fact that jurisdiction in the digital age is an absolute bitch ; maybe in 10 years the laws will have caught up to the late 90s.Prosecuting hate speech , however , is likely to be a British phenomenon , and they 're likely to be very...british about it .
I highly recommend a constitution with amendments protecting free speech in the future .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Moral of the story: Governments will prosecute what they think they can win when they think they can win where they think they can win.
The US will probably seek to extradite UK citizens who screw up US servers and vice versa.
This is partly due to the fact that jurisdiction in the digital age is an absolute bitch; maybe in 10 years the laws will have caught up to the late 90s.Prosecuting hate speech, however, is likely to be a British phenomenon, and they're likely to be very...british about it.
I highly recommend a constitution with amendments protecting free speech in the future.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241628</id>
	<title>Re:$700,000</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259246520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think a more accurate analogy would be if you had property that you didn't want anyone to go on, if someone went onto that property knowing that you didn't want them there, and you caught them and then decided to build a $700,000 security system to keep others out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think a more accurate analogy would be if you had property that you did n't want anyone to go on , if someone went onto that property knowing that you did n't want them there , and you caught them and then decided to build a $ 700,000 security system to keep others out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think a more accurate analogy would be if you had property that you didn't want anyone to go on, if someone went onto that property knowing that you didn't want them there, and you caught them and then decided to build a $700,000 security system to keep others out.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240654</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241366</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>secolactico</author>
	<datestamp>1259244120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You can't have it both ways.</p></div><p>Sometimes I see this expression and think, "why not?  Maybe you *can* have it both ways"</p><p>He could be judged in a British court where he (allegedly) committed the crime *and* in the U.S., where he also (allegedly) committed the crime.</p><p>Since they are two different legal systems, double jeopardy should not be an issue.  Suck it, Trebek!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You ca n't have it both ways.Sometimes I see this expression and think , " why not ?
Maybe you * can * have it both ways " He could be judged in a British court where he ( allegedly ) committed the crime * and * in the U.S. , where he also ( allegedly ) committed the crime.Since they are two different legal systems , double jeopardy should not be an issue .
Suck it , Trebek !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can't have it both ways.Sometimes I see this expression and think, "why not?
Maybe you *can* have it both ways"He could be judged in a British court where he (allegedly) committed the crime *and* in the U.S., where he also (allegedly) committed the crime.Since they are two different legal systems, double jeopardy should not be an issue.
Suck it, Trebek!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241940</id>
	<title>Re:If it were me...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259249580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't know much about Central and South American prisons huh? Check out the third season of Prison Break for a "PG" fictionalization of them, there are a few documentaries floating around about them on channels like History and National Geographic.</p><p>Even the worst US prison is better than being down there.</p><p>And since this guy is going to a Federal Prison, it won't be too bad, minimum or medium security, probably one of the Federal Prison medical centers, like Rochester MN where he'll be treated by the staff of the Mayo Clinic on the Federal Government's dime.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't know much about Central and South American prisons huh ?
Check out the third season of Prison Break for a " PG " fictionalization of them , there are a few documentaries floating around about them on channels like History and National Geographic.Even the worst US prison is better than being down there.And since this guy is going to a Federal Prison , it wo n't be too bad , minimum or medium security , probably one of the Federal Prison medical centers , like Rochester MN where he 'll be treated by the staff of the Mayo Clinic on the Federal Government 's dime .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't know much about Central and South American prisons huh?
Check out the third season of Prison Break for a "PG" fictionalization of them, there are a few documentaries floating around about them on channels like History and National Geographic.Even the worst US prison is better than being down there.And since this guy is going to a Federal Prison, it won't be too bad, minimum or medium security, probably one of the Federal Prison medical centers, like Rochester MN where he'll be treated by the staff of the Mayo Clinic on the Federal Government's dime.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240918</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30243136</id>
	<title>Re:Disgusting, gross injustice</title>
	<author>xmundt</author>
	<datestamp>1259264700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>     Greetings and Salutations...<br>
     The Billy Cotrell case is another example of the excellent job that the U.S. Government does of ensuring that if their wards were not terrorists before going into custody, they certainly would be when released!    That is probably the only really documented results of the hundreds if not thousands of folks being imprisoned at Gitmo.   Hundreds and thousands of folks who now hate America and what it stands for with a passion.<br>
     Is THIS what we want America to be in the world?   I think not, and, I hope that the politicians in the Federal Government get their heads pulled out of the dark places they have them impacted in, and, realize that if they do not take the lead in changing this insane behavior, America will soon be the Rome of the 21st Century.<br>
     As for the previous rants about Asperger's being nothing but an affectation and a false excuse for bad or illegal behavior...!   That shows a Medieval level of knowledge and understanding of the mind's functioning that is truly disheartening to see on Slashdot.   I would expect that sort of thing from Rush Limbaugh, or Glenn Beck followers, but, I would hope that the people posting here were slightly more educated and intellectual.    the diagnosis of Asperger's came from years of analysis of the spectrum of autism, and, perhaps more importantly, the increasing understanding that autism IS a spectrum ranging from slight effect, to severe withdrawal and physical problems.   Anyone with the slightest skill at searching Google should be able to find any of a number of sites that provide forums for those involved to discuss the problem and their efforts to deal with it, either as a person WITH it, or a relative/friend.   Before you spout nonsense that will live forever, perhaps it would be a good idea to spend an hour or so and research the topic to gain some understanding of the reality behind it.<br>
     To get back to the original issue, Mr. McKinnon...perhaps it would be a good idea to read this lengthy article: http://www.pcpro.co.uk/features/252972/gary-mckinnon-britains-hacking-hero/1  examining his journey.   There were three major points that jumped out at me in reading the article.   First...he hardly "hacked"  into anything.  He ran a script to look for default or null passwords on common administrator accounts...and apparently found  a LOT of them.  Secondly, he talks about installing remote access software...which, if one looks at the site, is nothing more than a WINDOWS ONLY version of VNC.  Finally, although there appears to be much handwaving and eyebrow-raising about these mysterious computers he hacked into, there is no actual proof mentioned that they were anything more than some workstation on a pointy-haired boss's desk, used for nothing more "secure" than keeping track of the number of pencils in inventory.    While it is true enough that what he did was legally wrong, and ethically questionable, it is more akin to a starving man stealing a loaf of bread  than it is the actual damage done to America by Aldrich Ames.  For those of us not afflicted with an Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, there is no real way to understand what a powerful push that can be to take an action without regard to the consequences.  Think of it as super-gluing your urethra closed, then, drinking a couple of six packs of beer.    The more I read about this, though, the more it seems that the truth of the matter is that Mr. McKinnon has simply embarrassed the U.S. Military in public, and that because of this he is going to be a very public scapegoat.<br>
     A more apt course of action would be for the US to allow the British court system to slap his wrists, and forget about him.   If security is so important to the U.S. Military, then, perhaps they should take the steps of either (a) switching over to a SLIGHTLY more secure OS than Windows (can you say Linux?  I THOUGHT you co</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Greetings and Salutations.. . The Billy Cotrell case is another example of the excellent job that the U.S. Government does of ensuring that if their wards were not terrorists before going into custody , they certainly would be when released !
That is probably the only really documented results of the hundreds if not thousands of folks being imprisoned at Gitmo .
Hundreds and thousands of folks who now hate America and what it stands for with a passion .
Is THIS what we want America to be in the world ?
I think not , and , I hope that the politicians in the Federal Government get their heads pulled out of the dark places they have them impacted in , and , realize that if they do not take the lead in changing this insane behavior , America will soon be the Rome of the 21st Century .
As for the previous rants about Asperger 's being nothing but an affectation and a false excuse for bad or illegal behavior... !
That shows a Medieval level of knowledge and understanding of the mind 's functioning that is truly disheartening to see on Slashdot .
I would expect that sort of thing from Rush Limbaugh , or Glenn Beck followers , but , I would hope that the people posting here were slightly more educated and intellectual .
the diagnosis of Asperger 's came from years of analysis of the spectrum of autism , and , perhaps more importantly , the increasing understanding that autism IS a spectrum ranging from slight effect , to severe withdrawal and physical problems .
Anyone with the slightest skill at searching Google should be able to find any of a number of sites that provide forums for those involved to discuss the problem and their efforts to deal with it , either as a person WITH it , or a relative/friend .
Before you spout nonsense that will live forever , perhaps it would be a good idea to spend an hour or so and research the topic to gain some understanding of the reality behind it .
To get back to the original issue , Mr. McKinnon...perhaps it would be a good idea to read this lengthy article : http : //www.pcpro.co.uk/features/252972/gary-mckinnon-britains-hacking-hero/1 examining his journey .
There were three major points that jumped out at me in reading the article .
First...he hardly " hacked " into anything .
He ran a script to look for default or null passwords on common administrator accounts...and apparently found a LOT of them .
Secondly , he talks about installing remote access software...which , if one looks at the site , is nothing more than a WINDOWS ONLY version of VNC .
Finally , although there appears to be much handwaving and eyebrow-raising about these mysterious computers he hacked into , there is no actual proof mentioned that they were anything more than some workstation on a pointy-haired boss 's desk , used for nothing more " secure " than keeping track of the number of pencils in inventory .
While it is true enough that what he did was legally wrong , and ethically questionable , it is more akin to a starving man stealing a loaf of bread than it is the actual damage done to America by Aldrich Ames .
For those of us not afflicted with an Obsessive Compulsive Disorder , there is no real way to understand what a powerful push that can be to take an action without regard to the consequences .
Think of it as super-gluing your urethra closed , then , drinking a couple of six packs of beer .
The more I read about this , though , the more it seems that the truth of the matter is that Mr. McKinnon has simply embarrassed the U.S. Military in public , and that because of this he is going to be a very public scapegoat .
A more apt course of action would be for the US to allow the British court system to slap his wrists , and forget about him .
If security is so important to the U.S. Military , then , perhaps they should take the steps of either ( a ) switching over to a SLIGHTLY more secure OS than Windows ( can you say Linux ?
I THOUGHT you co</tokentext>
<sentencetext>     Greetings and Salutations...
     The Billy Cotrell case is another example of the excellent job that the U.S. Government does of ensuring that if their wards were not terrorists before going into custody, they certainly would be when released!
That is probably the only really documented results of the hundreds if not thousands of folks being imprisoned at Gitmo.
Hundreds and thousands of folks who now hate America and what it stands for with a passion.
Is THIS what we want America to be in the world?
I think not, and, I hope that the politicians in the Federal Government get their heads pulled out of the dark places they have them impacted in, and, realize that if they do not take the lead in changing this insane behavior, America will soon be the Rome of the 21st Century.
As for the previous rants about Asperger's being nothing but an affectation and a false excuse for bad or illegal behavior...!
That shows a Medieval level of knowledge and understanding of the mind's functioning that is truly disheartening to see on Slashdot.
I would expect that sort of thing from Rush Limbaugh, or Glenn Beck followers, but, I would hope that the people posting here were slightly more educated and intellectual.
the diagnosis of Asperger's came from years of analysis of the spectrum of autism, and, perhaps more importantly, the increasing understanding that autism IS a spectrum ranging from slight effect, to severe withdrawal and physical problems.
Anyone with the slightest skill at searching Google should be able to find any of a number of sites that provide forums for those involved to discuss the problem and their efforts to deal with it, either as a person WITH it, or a relative/friend.
Before you spout nonsense that will live forever, perhaps it would be a good idea to spend an hour or so and research the topic to gain some understanding of the reality behind it.
To get back to the original issue, Mr. McKinnon...perhaps it would be a good idea to read this lengthy article: http://www.pcpro.co.uk/features/252972/gary-mckinnon-britains-hacking-hero/1  examining his journey.
There were three major points that jumped out at me in reading the article.
First...he hardly "hacked"  into anything.
He ran a script to look for default or null passwords on common administrator accounts...and apparently found  a LOT of them.
Secondly, he talks about installing remote access software...which, if one looks at the site, is nothing more than a WINDOWS ONLY version of VNC.
Finally, although there appears to be much handwaving and eyebrow-raising about these mysterious computers he hacked into, there is no actual proof mentioned that they were anything more than some workstation on a pointy-haired boss's desk, used for nothing more "secure" than keeping track of the number of pencils in inventory.
While it is true enough that what he did was legally wrong, and ethically questionable, it is more akin to a starving man stealing a loaf of bread  than it is the actual damage done to America by Aldrich Ames.
For those of us not afflicted with an Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, there is no real way to understand what a powerful push that can be to take an action without regard to the consequences.
Think of it as super-gluing your urethra closed, then, drinking a couple of six packs of beer.
The more I read about this, though, the more it seems that the truth of the matter is that Mr. McKinnon has simply embarrassed the U.S. Military in public, and that because of this he is going to be a very public scapegoat.
A more apt course of action would be for the US to allow the British court system to slap his wrists, and forget about him.
If security is so important to the U.S. Military, then, perhaps they should take the steps of either (a) switching over to a SLIGHTLY more secure OS than Windows (can you say Linux?
I THOUGHT you co</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241750</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30251038</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>BenoitRen</author>
	<datestamp>1259327760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Prosecuting hate speech is not a British phenomenon. It has happened in other European countries as well.</p><p>Free speech? You can say what you want, but you have to accept the consequences. Hate speech is not acceptable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Prosecuting hate speech is not a British phenomenon .
It has happened in other European countries as well.Free speech ?
You can say what you want , but you have to accept the consequences .
Hate speech is not acceptable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Prosecuting hate speech is not a British phenomenon.
It has happened in other European countries as well.Free speech?
You can say what you want, but you have to accept the consequences.
Hate speech is not acceptable.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240750</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240486</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259237340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Losers believe that having Asperger's Syndrome excuses all forms of social retardation, attention whoring and shitty self-absorbed bullshit, while also allowing them to lay claim to its supposed symptom of "higher than average levels of intelligence".<br> <br>

For these reasons, Aspers has greatly outstripped ADHD as the chic diagnosis of choice for pretty much every group of fucktards on the internet. It is no wonder then that all people with Assburgers are fugly.</p></div> </blockquote><p>

Posting Dramatica articles is usually lame, but they're spot-on with that. <a href="http://media-dis-n-dat.blogspot.com/2009/11/caltech-grad-students-re-sentencing-may.html" title="blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Here's</a> [blogspot.com] another famous Assperger's fuckup.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Losers believe that having Asperger 's Syndrome excuses all forms of social retardation , attention whoring and shitty self-absorbed bullshit , while also allowing them to lay claim to its supposed symptom of " higher than average levels of intelligence " .
For these reasons , Aspers has greatly outstripped ADHD as the chic diagnosis of choice for pretty much every group of fucktards on the internet .
It is no wonder then that all people with Assburgers are fugly .
Posting Dramatica articles is usually lame , but they 're spot-on with that .
Here 's [ blogspot.com ] another famous Assperger 's fuckup .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Losers believe that having Asperger's Syndrome excuses all forms of social retardation, attention whoring and shitty self-absorbed bullshit, while also allowing them to lay claim to its supposed symptom of "higher than average levels of intelligence".
For these reasons, Aspers has greatly outstripped ADHD as the chic diagnosis of choice for pretty much every group of fucktards on the internet.
It is no wonder then that all people with Assburgers are fugly.
Posting Dramatica articles is usually lame, but they're spot-on with that.
Here's [blogspot.com] another famous Assperger's fuckup.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30245026</id>
	<title>Death penalty</title>
	<author>tehcyder</author>
	<datestamp>1259333700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Would this extradition still have been allowed if he was facing the death penalty?  I have always understood that we (the UK) wouldn't allow extradition in these circumstances, so maybe he should have murdered someone in Texas over the internet...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Would this extradition still have been allowed if he was facing the death penalty ?
I have always understood that we ( the UK ) would n't allow extradition in these circumstances , so maybe he should have murdered someone in Texas over the internet.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Would this extradition still have been allowed if he was facing the death penalty?
I have always understood that we (the UK) wouldn't allow extradition in these circumstances, so maybe he should have murdered someone in Texas over the internet...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30244308</id>
	<title>time to pay</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259323500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>this is a simple case of don't do the crime if you cant do the time!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>this is a simple case of do n't do the crime if you cant do the time !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>this is a simple case of don't do the crime if you cant do the time!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240726</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259239140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>An amazing thing called "jurisdiction", you should look into it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>An amazing thing called " jurisdiction " , you should look into it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An amazing thing called "jurisdiction", you should look into it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240658</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240656</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259238540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, and it has nothing to do with telling right from wrong or being responsible for criminal acts.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , and it has nothing to do with telling right from wrong or being responsible for criminal acts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, and it has nothing to do with telling right from wrong or being responsible for criminal acts.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240572</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241748</id>
	<title>Re:Extradition to countries that practice torture?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259247720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>IBut then again, the US and the UK are not all that much different and if closer together would probably become a single country.</p></div><p>They could call it Oceania...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>IBut then again , the US and the UK are not all that much different and if closer together would probably become a single country.They could call it Oceania.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IBut then again, the US and the UK are not all that much different and if closer together would probably become a single country.They could call it Oceania...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241486</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>Raisey-raison</author>
	<datestamp>1259245260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The issue here is that US courts have mysteriously 'found' that they do have jurisdiction even when the crime is committed outside of the USA. Well in the same way as a foreigner would think a US court to be silly if a US court decided it had jurisdiction as to whether 3+3=6, so too it's way to self serving to take seriously a US court that claims jurisdiction for an action taken outside of the USA. It goes to core of what a legislature can do. For  example the congress could decide that anyone who cooks vegetables in Indonesia is committing a crime. And the courts would take it seriously, but that doesn't mean that the whole notion is not ridiculous.</p><p>It also goes to the whole question of sovereignty. Country A is sovereign in and only in country A. It simply doesn't have the authority to legislate beyond country A. Even if country A's courts recognize extra territorial authority - the issue is moot because some other country is sovereign in some other place in the world.  This is important because it's what distinguishes the rule of law from highway robbery and murder (ie when a police officer arrests someone it's not kidnapping because they have authority to arrest someone but that authority is not unlimited.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The issue here is that US courts have mysteriously 'found ' that they do have jurisdiction even when the crime is committed outside of the USA .
Well in the same way as a foreigner would think a US court to be silly if a US court decided it had jurisdiction as to whether 3 + 3 = 6 , so too it 's way to self serving to take seriously a US court that claims jurisdiction for an action taken outside of the USA .
It goes to core of what a legislature can do .
For example the congress could decide that anyone who cooks vegetables in Indonesia is committing a crime .
And the courts would take it seriously , but that does n't mean that the whole notion is not ridiculous.It also goes to the whole question of sovereignty .
Country A is sovereign in and only in country A. It simply does n't have the authority to legislate beyond country A. Even if country A 's courts recognize extra territorial authority - the issue is moot because some other country is sovereign in some other place in the world .
This is important because it 's what distinguishes the rule of law from highway robbery and murder ( ie when a police officer arrests someone it 's not kidnapping because they have authority to arrest someone but that authority is not unlimited .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The issue here is that US courts have mysteriously 'found' that they do have jurisdiction even when the crime is committed outside of the USA.
Well in the same way as a foreigner would think a US court to be silly if a US court decided it had jurisdiction as to whether 3+3=6, so too it's way to self serving to take seriously a US court that claims jurisdiction for an action taken outside of the USA.
It goes to core of what a legislature can do.
For  example the congress could decide that anyone who cooks vegetables in Indonesia is committing a crime.
And the courts would take it seriously, but that doesn't mean that the whole notion is not ridiculous.It also goes to the whole question of sovereignty.
Country A is sovereign in and only in country A. It simply doesn't have the authority to legislate beyond country A. Even if country A's courts recognize extra territorial authority - the issue is moot because some other country is sovereign in some other place in the world.
This is important because it's what distinguishes the rule of law from highway robbery and murder (ie when a police officer arrests someone it's not kidnapping because they have authority to arrest someone but that authority is not unlimited.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30244450</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>matchewg</author>
	<datestamp>1259325420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think there has been a ton of misinformation floating around as to the damage that Mr. McKinnon inflicted.
According to the facts of the case:

"11 Using his home computer the appellant, through the internet, identified US Government network computers with an open Microsoft Windows connection and from those extracted the identities of certain administrative accounts and associated passwords. Having gained access to those accounts he installed unauthorised remote access and administrative software called &ldquo;remotely anywhere&rdquo; that enabled him to access and alter data upon the American computers at any time and without detection by virtue of the programme masquerading as a Windows operating system. Once &ldquo;remotely anywhere&rdquo; was installed, he then installed software facilitating both further compromises to the computers and also the concealment of his own activities. Using this software he was able to scan over 73,000 US Government computers for other computers and networks susceptible to similar compromise. He was thus able to lever himself from network to network and into a number of significant Government computers in different parts of the USA.

12 The 97 computers the appellant accessed were: 53 army computers, including computers based in Virginia and Washington that control the army's military district of Washington network and are used in furtherance of national defence and security; 26 navy computers, including US Naval Weapons Station Earle, New Jersey, which was responsible for replenishing munitions and supplies for the deployed Atlantic fleet; 16 NASA computers; one Department of Defense computer; and one US Air Force computer.

13 Having gained access to these computers the appellant deleted data from them including critical operating system files from nine computers, the deletion of which shut down the entire US Army's Military District of Washington network of over 2000 computers for 24 hours, significantly disrupting Governmental functions; 2,455 user accounts on a US Army computer that controlled access to an Army computer network, causing these computers to reboot and become inoperable; and logs from computers at US Naval Weapons Station Earle, one of which was used for monitoring the identity, location, physical condition, staffing and battle readiness of Navy ships, deletion of these files rendering the Base's entire network of over 300 computers inoperable at a critical time immediately following 11 September 2001 and thereafter leaving the network vulnerable to other intruders.

14 The appellant also copied data and files onto his own computers, including operating system files containing account names and encrypted passwords from 22 computers comprising: 189 files from US Army computers, 35 files from US Navy computers (including some 950 passwords from server computers at Naval Weapons Station Earle); and six files from NASA computers."(Extract from McKinnon v Government of the United States of America and another, [2008] 1 W.L.R. 1739)

If Mr. McKinnon did not commit an offence, I'm not sure exactly what is one then. Indeed, he may have been an amateur. But on viewing the facts it appears he caused a substantial amount of damage. The claim of damages reflects not only the damage incurred by the US military but also the deterrence necessary to dissuade future crackers from entering US government systems.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think there has been a ton of misinformation floating around as to the damage that Mr. McKinnon inflicted .
According to the facts of the case : " 11 Using his home computer the appellant , through the internet , identified US Government network computers with an open Microsoft Windows connection and from those extracted the identities of certain administrative accounts and associated passwords .
Having gained access to those accounts he installed unauthorised remote access and administrative software called    remotely anywhere    that enabled him to access and alter data upon the American computers at any time and without detection by virtue of the programme masquerading as a Windows operating system .
Once    remotely anywhere    was installed , he then installed software facilitating both further compromises to the computers and also the concealment of his own activities .
Using this software he was able to scan over 73,000 US Government computers for other computers and networks susceptible to similar compromise .
He was thus able to lever himself from network to network and into a number of significant Government computers in different parts of the USA .
12 The 97 computers the appellant accessed were : 53 army computers , including computers based in Virginia and Washington that control the army 's military district of Washington network and are used in furtherance of national defence and security ; 26 navy computers , including US Naval Weapons Station Earle , New Jersey , which was responsible for replenishing munitions and supplies for the deployed Atlantic fleet ; 16 NASA computers ; one Department of Defense computer ; and one US Air Force computer .
13 Having gained access to these computers the appellant deleted data from them including critical operating system files from nine computers , the deletion of which shut down the entire US Army 's Military District of Washington network of over 2000 computers for 24 hours , significantly disrupting Governmental functions ; 2,455 user accounts on a US Army computer that controlled access to an Army computer network , causing these computers to reboot and become inoperable ; and logs from computers at US Naval Weapons Station Earle , one of which was used for monitoring the identity , location , physical condition , staffing and battle readiness of Navy ships , deletion of these files rendering the Base 's entire network of over 300 computers inoperable at a critical time immediately following 11 September 2001 and thereafter leaving the network vulnerable to other intruders .
14 The appellant also copied data and files onto his own computers , including operating system files containing account names and encrypted passwords from 22 computers comprising : 189 files from US Army computers , 35 files from US Navy computers ( including some 950 passwords from server computers at Naval Weapons Station Earle ) ; and six files from NASA computers .
" ( Extract from McKinnon v Government of the United States of America and another , [ 2008 ] 1 W.L.R .
1739 ) If Mr. McKinnon did not commit an offence , I 'm not sure exactly what is one then .
Indeed , he may have been an amateur .
But on viewing the facts it appears he caused a substantial amount of damage .
The claim of damages reflects not only the damage incurred by the US military but also the deterrence necessary to dissuade future crackers from entering US government systems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think there has been a ton of misinformation floating around as to the damage that Mr. McKinnon inflicted.
According to the facts of the case:

"11 Using his home computer the appellant, through the internet, identified US Government network computers with an open Microsoft Windows connection and from those extracted the identities of certain administrative accounts and associated passwords.
Having gained access to those accounts he installed unauthorised remote access and administrative software called “remotely anywhere” that enabled him to access and alter data upon the American computers at any time and without detection by virtue of the programme masquerading as a Windows operating system.
Once “remotely anywhere” was installed, he then installed software facilitating both further compromises to the computers and also the concealment of his own activities.
Using this software he was able to scan over 73,000 US Government computers for other computers and networks susceptible to similar compromise.
He was thus able to lever himself from network to network and into a number of significant Government computers in different parts of the USA.
12 The 97 computers the appellant accessed were: 53 army computers, including computers based in Virginia and Washington that control the army's military district of Washington network and are used in furtherance of national defence and security; 26 navy computers, including US Naval Weapons Station Earle, New Jersey, which was responsible for replenishing munitions and supplies for the deployed Atlantic fleet; 16 NASA computers; one Department of Defense computer; and one US Air Force computer.
13 Having gained access to these computers the appellant deleted data from them including critical operating system files from nine computers, the deletion of which shut down the entire US Army's Military District of Washington network of over 2000 computers for 24 hours, significantly disrupting Governmental functions; 2,455 user accounts on a US Army computer that controlled access to an Army computer network, causing these computers to reboot and become inoperable; and logs from computers at US Naval Weapons Station Earle, one of which was used for monitoring the identity, location, physical condition, staffing and battle readiness of Navy ships, deletion of these files rendering the Base's entire network of over 300 computers inoperable at a critical time immediately following 11 September 2001 and thereafter leaving the network vulnerable to other intruders.
14 The appellant also copied data and files onto his own computers, including operating system files containing account names and encrypted passwords from 22 computers comprising: 189 files from US Army computers, 35 files from US Navy computers (including some 950 passwords from server computers at Naval Weapons Station Earle); and six files from NASA computers.
"(Extract from McKinnon v Government of the United States of America and another, [2008] 1 W.L.R.
1739)

If Mr. McKinnon did not commit an offence, I'm not sure exactly what is one then.
Indeed, he may have been an amateur.
But on viewing the facts it appears he caused a substantial amount of damage.
The claim of damages reflects not only the damage incurred by the US military but also the deterrence necessary to dissuade future crackers from entering US government systems.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240776</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30246346</id>
	<title>Re:Is he immortal?</title>
	<author>tehcyder</author>
	<datestamp>1259343120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Isn't his death already virtually certain?</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
No, it's absolutely certain.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is n't his death already virtually certain ?
No , it 's absolutely certain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn't his death already virtually certain?
No, it's absolutely certain.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240990</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240984</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>xenoglossy</author>
	<datestamp>1259240880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Jurisdiction is a well defined concept.  A court will decide if it has jurisdiction, if so it will hear it.  If the US Court he lands in finds no reason to believe it has jurisdiction then it will be dropped by said court.  In this case it is pretty unlikely given that the offense can be seen to have happened in the US.  You would have to find some pretty convincing case law to convince the court it has no jurisdiction.  Same could be said in reverse.

Nothing to see here.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Jurisdiction is a well defined concept .
A court will decide if it has jurisdiction , if so it will hear it .
If the US Court he lands in finds no reason to believe it has jurisdiction then it will be dropped by said court .
In this case it is pretty unlikely given that the offense can be seen to have happened in the US .
You would have to find some pretty convincing case law to convince the court it has no jurisdiction .
Same could be said in reverse .
Nothing to see here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Jurisdiction is a well defined concept.
A court will decide if it has jurisdiction, if so it will hear it.
If the US Court he lands in finds no reason to believe it has jurisdiction then it will be dropped by said court.
In this case it is pretty unlikely given that the offense can be seen to have happened in the US.
You would have to find some pretty convincing case law to convince the court it has no jurisdiction.
Same could be said in reverse.
Nothing to see here.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30243588</id>
	<title>McKinno is evil faced Asperger</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259313780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Lets face facts here. This man is an evil deviant menance. He should be shot down in falmes.  Nobuddy should have there intellignece insuloted by his clams to be an Asperger. We all know his type - he even looks dodgey - like somebody who would commit series crimes.  I mean just look at him - he has the face of somebody who is bad to the bone.  He has preyed ona innocent and defencelss United States for too long.  I say blow him up now and have dun with it.!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lets face facts here .
This man is an evil deviant menance .
He should be shot down in falmes .
Nobuddy should have there intellignece insuloted by his clams to be an Asperger .
We all know his type - he even looks dodgey - like somebody who would commit series crimes .
I mean just look at him - he has the face of somebody who is bad to the bone .
He has preyed ona innocent and defencelss United States for too long .
I say blow him up now and have dun with it .
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lets face facts here.
This man is an evil deviant menance.
He should be shot down in falmes.
Nobuddy should have there intellignece insuloted by his clams to be an Asperger.
We all know his type - he even looks dodgey - like somebody who would commit series crimes.
I mean just look at him - he has the face of somebody who is bad to the bone.
He has preyed ona innocent and defencelss United States for too long.
I say blow him up now and have dun with it.
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240528</id>
	<title>So let's just forget about a fair trial!</title>
	<author>Raisey-raison</author>
	<datestamp>1259237640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you don't live in the USA you hardly stand much a chance of getting fair trial if you are extradited. Firstly you need money for a private attorney if you want a real shot at a fair trial (public defenders are a joke most of the time; innocent people go to jail all the time - just look at he innocence project). And you are not allowed to work while you are awaiting trail in the USA further guaranteeing you getting screwed over. You are not familiar with the legal system - again another nail in the coffin of obtaining a fair trial. And consider that you don't know anyone to turn to for advice. And then you have to consider cultural factors - a jury in the USA is going to be less sympathetic to a foreigner.</p><p>Of course in this case its even worse - what he did would be a lesser crime in the UK. Why someone should subject to a foreign countries laws while doing something that is not in that foreign county amazes me. We don't give foreigners the vote so why should they be subject to our laws when not in our country. Let him be subject to British laws and let the British system deal with him (ie for his hacking).</p><p>He also has Asperger's Syndrome and this form of autism could really be a stress factor leading to suicude. A trial in a foreign country is no small deal. The whole thing stinks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you do n't live in the USA you hardly stand much a chance of getting fair trial if you are extradited .
Firstly you need money for a private attorney if you want a real shot at a fair trial ( public defenders are a joke most of the time ; innocent people go to jail all the time - just look at he innocence project ) .
And you are not allowed to work while you are awaiting trail in the USA further guaranteeing you getting screwed over .
You are not familiar with the legal system - again another nail in the coffin of obtaining a fair trial .
And consider that you do n't know anyone to turn to for advice .
And then you have to consider cultural factors - a jury in the USA is going to be less sympathetic to a foreigner.Of course in this case its even worse - what he did would be a lesser crime in the UK .
Why someone should subject to a foreign countries laws while doing something that is not in that foreign county amazes me .
We do n't give foreigners the vote so why should they be subject to our laws when not in our country .
Let him be subject to British laws and let the British system deal with him ( ie for his hacking ) .He also has Asperger 's Syndrome and this form of autism could really be a stress factor leading to suicude .
A trial in a foreign country is no small deal .
The whole thing stinks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you don't live in the USA you hardly stand much a chance of getting fair trial if you are extradited.
Firstly you need money for a private attorney if you want a real shot at a fair trial (public defenders are a joke most of the time; innocent people go to jail all the time - just look at he innocence project).
And you are not allowed to work while you are awaiting trail in the USA further guaranteeing you getting screwed over.
You are not familiar with the legal system - again another nail in the coffin of obtaining a fair trial.
And consider that you don't know anyone to turn to for advice.
And then you have to consider cultural factors - a jury in the USA is going to be less sympathetic to a foreigner.Of course in this case its even worse - what he did would be a lesser crime in the UK.
Why someone should subject to a foreign countries laws while doing something that is not in that foreign county amazes me.
We don't give foreigners the vote so why should they be subject to our laws when not in our country.
Let him be subject to British laws and let the British system deal with him (ie for his hacking).He also has Asperger's Syndrome and this form of autism could really be a stress factor leading to suicude.
A trial in a foreign country is no small deal.
The whole thing stinks.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240846</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>Ethanol-fueled</author>
	<datestamp>1259239860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Though I think the Asperger's defense is simply the latest fad for justifying bratty sociopathic behavior which was enabled and tolerated, I firmly believe that it is wrong to extradite him. He was looking for UFO's, for fuck's sake, and I don't see why the Brits couldn't just fine him up the wazoo and make him work for free while on house-arrest. They guy's a nut, but he's not dangerous.<br> <br>

And to say that if he "sold the information then lives could have been lost" is alarmist bullshit. Even military with mandatory OPSEC briefings and security clearances wouldn't believe that garbage (now, if we were at full-scale war with China or Russia then it'd be a different story altogether -- and c'mon, even the ACTA is being obscured on the grounds of "national security"). It's clear that they guy never intended to give our sekrits to terr'rists. The pentagon's just pissy that some nutcase exposed a goatse-esque security hole and now we want to make an example of him. Our government is behaving like a bunch of vengeful, steroid-addled, UFC-watching goons. Extradition is overkill in this particular case. <br> <br>

The aspie and the American government are in a cute little contest to see who can out-douche the other. I'm going to laugh if the aspie fights this and wins it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Though I think the Asperger 's defense is simply the latest fad for justifying bratty sociopathic behavior which was enabled and tolerated , I firmly believe that it is wrong to extradite him .
He was looking for UFO 's , for fuck 's sake , and I do n't see why the Brits could n't just fine him up the wazoo and make him work for free while on house-arrest .
They guy 's a nut , but he 's not dangerous .
And to say that if he " sold the information then lives could have been lost " is alarmist bullshit .
Even military with mandatory OPSEC briefings and security clearances would n't believe that garbage ( now , if we were at full-scale war with China or Russia then it 'd be a different story altogether -- and c'mon , even the ACTA is being obscured on the grounds of " national security " ) .
It 's clear that they guy never intended to give our sekrits to terr'rists .
The pentagon 's just pissy that some nutcase exposed a goatse-esque security hole and now we want to make an example of him .
Our government is behaving like a bunch of vengeful , steroid-addled , UFC-watching goons .
Extradition is overkill in this particular case .
The aspie and the American government are in a cute little contest to see who can out-douche the other .
I 'm going to laugh if the aspie fights this and wins it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Though I think the Asperger's defense is simply the latest fad for justifying bratty sociopathic behavior which was enabled and tolerated, I firmly believe that it is wrong to extradite him.
He was looking for UFO's, for fuck's sake, and I don't see why the Brits couldn't just fine him up the wazoo and make him work for free while on house-arrest.
They guy's a nut, but he's not dangerous.
And to say that if he "sold the information then lives could have been lost" is alarmist bullshit.
Even military with mandatory OPSEC briefings and security clearances wouldn't believe that garbage (now, if we were at full-scale war with China or Russia then it'd be a different story altogether -- and c'mon, even the ACTA is being obscured on the grounds of "national security").
It's clear that they guy never intended to give our sekrits to terr'rists.
The pentagon's just pissy that some nutcase exposed a goatse-esque security hole and now we want to make an example of him.
Our government is behaving like a bunch of vengeful, steroid-addled, UFC-watching goons.
Extradition is overkill in this particular case.
The aspie and the American government are in a cute little contest to see who can out-douche the other.
I'm going to laugh if the aspie fights this and wins it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240682</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30244220</id>
	<title>Re:So let's just forget about a fair trial!</title>
	<author>dgriff</author>
	<datestamp>1259322120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>If you don't live in the USA you hardly stand much a chance of getting fair trial if you are extradited. Firstly you need money for a private attorney if you want a real shot at a fair trial (public defenders are a joke most of the time; innocent people go to jail all the time - just look at he innocence project).</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
A mate of mine who is somewhat on the Asperger's side of normal went to the US to work for Sun. He tended to work late and one day he got arrested - a cleaner at the office had been molested in an elevator and had picked his picture out. (The top left one in a sheet of photos of people working late that evening). She also said he had a motorbike helmet and spoke Spanish. Whole thing was obviously a mis-identification and when it came to the court hearing we expected it to be thrown out. To our horror she (presumably under pressure) identified him again in court. That meant he had to get tens of thousands of dollars for an attorney then face a jury where it was his word against hers. Him with his slightly strange manner (very geeky). I think the charges were kidnapping (trapped in the elevator) and molestation. He could have faced years in jail.
<br> <br>
His employer Sun washed their hands of him, banned his brother from speaking to work colleagues and even collecting his latest pay cheque (still in his office drawer - doh!). Eventually he managed to borrow the bail money and got the hell out of there.
<br> <br>
The US can be a scary place for a foreigner if you get in trouble with the law.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you do n't live in the USA you hardly stand much a chance of getting fair trial if you are extradited .
Firstly you need money for a private attorney if you want a real shot at a fair trial ( public defenders are a joke most of the time ; innocent people go to jail all the time - just look at he innocence project ) .
A mate of mine who is somewhat on the Asperger 's side of normal went to the US to work for Sun .
He tended to work late and one day he got arrested - a cleaner at the office had been molested in an elevator and had picked his picture out .
( The top left one in a sheet of photos of people working late that evening ) .
She also said he had a motorbike helmet and spoke Spanish .
Whole thing was obviously a mis-identification and when it came to the court hearing we expected it to be thrown out .
To our horror she ( presumably under pressure ) identified him again in court .
That meant he had to get tens of thousands of dollars for an attorney then face a jury where it was his word against hers .
Him with his slightly strange manner ( very geeky ) .
I think the charges were kidnapping ( trapped in the elevator ) and molestation .
He could have faced years in jail .
His employer Sun washed their hands of him , banned his brother from speaking to work colleagues and even collecting his latest pay cheque ( still in his office drawer - doh ! ) .
Eventually he managed to borrow the bail money and got the hell out of there .
The US can be a scary place for a foreigner if you get in trouble with the law .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you don't live in the USA you hardly stand much a chance of getting fair trial if you are extradited.
Firstly you need money for a private attorney if you want a real shot at a fair trial (public defenders are a joke most of the time; innocent people go to jail all the time - just look at he innocence project).
A mate of mine who is somewhat on the Asperger's side of normal went to the US to work for Sun.
He tended to work late and one day he got arrested - a cleaner at the office had been molested in an elevator and had picked his picture out.
(The top left one in a sheet of photos of people working late that evening).
She also said he had a motorbike helmet and spoke Spanish.
Whole thing was obviously a mis-identification and when it came to the court hearing we expected it to be thrown out.
To our horror she (presumably under pressure) identified him again in court.
That meant he had to get tens of thousands of dollars for an attorney then face a jury where it was his word against hers.
Him with his slightly strange manner (very geeky).
I think the charges were kidnapping (trapped in the elevator) and molestation.
He could have faced years in jail.
His employer Sun washed their hands of him, banned his brother from speaking to work colleagues and even collecting his latest pay cheque (still in his office drawer - doh!).
Eventually he managed to borrow the bail money and got the hell out of there.
The US can be a scary place for a foreigner if you get in trouble with the law.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240528</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30242668</id>
	<title>Re:Disgusting, gross injustice</title>
	<author>Auroch</author>
	<datestamp>1259257440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Justice would mean him being tried in the UK, just like any other UK citizen.</p></div><p> Yeah, because the UK does an excellent job protecting the rights of their citizens.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Justice would mean him being tried in the UK , just like any other UK citizen .
Yeah , because the UK does an excellent job protecting the rights of their citizens .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Justice would mean him being tried in the UK, just like any other UK citizen.
Yeah, because the UK does an excellent job protecting the rights of their citizens.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241750</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240990</id>
	<title>Is he immortal?</title>
	<author>duffetta</author>
	<datestamp>1259240940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Isn't his death already virtually certain?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is n't his death already virtually certain ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn't his death already virtually certain?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30244720</id>
	<title>Re:$700,000</title>
	<author>noidentity</author>
	<datestamp>1259330220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>A car analogy was so close, too: it's like seeing someone open your supposedly locked car door by just pulling the handle, and claiming $100 damage when you find that's how much it'll cost to fix your broken lock.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A car analogy was so close , too : it 's like seeing someone open your supposedly locked car door by just pulling the handle , and claiming $ 100 damage when you find that 's how much it 'll cost to fix your broken lock .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A car analogy was so close, too: it's like seeing someone open your supposedly locked car door by just pulling the handle, and claiming $100 damage when you find that's how much it'll cost to fix your broken lock.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240654</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241490</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259245260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>We're ALL dying . . . . some sooner, some later.</htmltext>
<tokenext>We 're ALL dying .
. .
. some sooner , some later .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We're ALL dying .
. .
. some sooner, some later.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30245568</id>
	<title>Re:I don't get it..</title>
	<author>Raisey-raison</author>
	<datestamp>1259338320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I don't understand why everyone's mad at the US.</p><p>The US is doing what their law says to do.  They have an extradition treaty with the UK.  Therefore, they requested extradition.</p><p>REQUESTED extradition.  They didn't "demand" it.  They didn't "order" the UK to.</p> </div><p>When the USA 'asks' for something it quite often <b>is</b> in fact an implicit demand. All sorts of behind the scenes sanctions applied when things don't go its way. For example this occurred when Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed Al Megrahi (the lockerbie suspect) was freed because he had cancer. He was also appealing his conviction and there was good reason to believe that he was going to get off. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdelbaset\_Ali\_Mohmed\_Al\_Megrahi" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdelbaset\_Ali\_Mohmed\_Al\_Megrahi</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>But the USA still screamed bloody murder. This despite that Tony Gauci, the chief prosecution witness at the trial, was alleged to have been paid $2 million for testifying against Megrahi. Mebo's owner (the company that made the timer), Edwin Bollier, claimed that in 1991 the FBI offered him $4 million to testify that the timer fragment found near the scene of the crash was part of a Mebo MST-13 timer supplied to Libya. A Former employee of Mebo, Ulrich Lumpert, swore in an affidavit in July 2007 that he had stolen a prototype MST-13 timer in 1989, and had handed it over to "a person officially investigating the Lockerbie case". So there was all this exculpatory evidence and yet the USA still wanted him locked up. There were calls for intelligence sanctions on the UK as a result.</p><p>If the prosecutors and the administration chose not to be complete douchebags, they could at their own discretion choose not to pursue this case. Deciding to ask for extradition is entirely discretionary.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>I cannot contemplate why the people from the UK who are angry at the US are angry at the US.</p> </div><p>People are angry because the USA is being a bully and it can get away with it because it's a super power.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't understand why everyone 's mad at the US.The US is doing what their law says to do .
They have an extradition treaty with the UK .
Therefore , they requested extradition.REQUESTED extradition .
They did n't " demand " it .
They did n't " order " the UK to .
When the USA 'asks ' for something it quite often is in fact an implicit demand .
All sorts of behind the scenes sanctions applied when things do n't go its way .
For example this occurred when Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed Al Megrahi ( the lockerbie suspect ) was freed because he had cancer .
He was also appealing his conviction and there was good reason to believe that he was going to get off .
http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdelbaset \ _Ali \ _Mohmed \ _Al \ _Megrahi [ wikipedia.org ] But the USA still screamed bloody murder .
This despite that Tony Gauci , the chief prosecution witness at the trial , was alleged to have been paid $ 2 million for testifying against Megrahi .
Mebo 's owner ( the company that made the timer ) , Edwin Bollier , claimed that in 1991 the FBI offered him $ 4 million to testify that the timer fragment found near the scene of the crash was part of a Mebo MST-13 timer supplied to Libya .
A Former employee of Mebo , Ulrich Lumpert , swore in an affidavit in July 2007 that he had stolen a prototype MST-13 timer in 1989 , and had handed it over to " a person officially investigating the Lockerbie case " .
So there was all this exculpatory evidence and yet the USA still wanted him locked up .
There were calls for intelligence sanctions on the UK as a result.If the prosecutors and the administration chose not to be complete douchebags , they could at their own discretion choose not to pursue this case .
Deciding to ask for extradition is entirely discretionary.I can not contemplate why the people from the UK who are angry at the US are angry at the US .
People are angry because the USA is being a bully and it can get away with it because it 's a super power .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't understand why everyone's mad at the US.The US is doing what their law says to do.
They have an extradition treaty with the UK.
Therefore, they requested extradition.REQUESTED extradition.
They didn't "demand" it.
They didn't "order" the UK to.
When the USA 'asks' for something it quite often is in fact an implicit demand.
All sorts of behind the scenes sanctions applied when things don't go its way.
For example this occurred when Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed Al Megrahi (the lockerbie suspect) was freed because he had cancer.
He was also appealing his conviction and there was good reason to believe that he was going to get off.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdelbaset\_Ali\_Mohmed\_Al\_Megrahi [wikipedia.org]But the USA still screamed bloody murder.
This despite that Tony Gauci, the chief prosecution witness at the trial, was alleged to have been paid $2 million for testifying against Megrahi.
Mebo's owner (the company that made the timer), Edwin Bollier, claimed that in 1991 the FBI offered him $4 million to testify that the timer fragment found near the scene of the crash was part of a Mebo MST-13 timer supplied to Libya.
A Former employee of Mebo, Ulrich Lumpert, swore in an affidavit in July 2007 that he had stolen a prototype MST-13 timer in 1989, and had handed it over to "a person officially investigating the Lockerbie case".
So there was all this exculpatory evidence and yet the USA still wanted him locked up.
There were calls for intelligence sanctions on the UK as a result.If the prosecutors and the administration chose not to be complete douchebags, they could at their own discretion choose not to pursue this case.
Deciding to ask for extradition is entirely discretionary.I cannot contemplate why the people from the UK who are angry at the US are angry at the US.
People are angry because the USA is being a bully and it can get away with it because it's a super power.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30243078</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30244730</id>
	<title>The US should thank him..</title>
	<author>severn2j</author>
	<datestamp>1259330280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This reminds me of something that happened to me recently.  My wife and I went away for the weekend and on our return, found a note at the bottom of our stairs from the police, informing us that they had found our front door wide open and had gone inside to make sure we hadnt been robbed, they'd been into every room (we've found the dirty footprints) and secured the door on their way out.  We wrote to the police about this and thanked the officers in question.  In my opinion, the US should do the same.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This reminds me of something that happened to me recently .
My wife and I went away for the weekend and on our return , found a note at the bottom of our stairs from the police , informing us that they had found our front door wide open and had gone inside to make sure we hadnt been robbed , they 'd been into every room ( we 've found the dirty footprints ) and secured the door on their way out .
We wrote to the police about this and thanked the officers in question .
In my opinion , the US should do the same .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This reminds me of something that happened to me recently.
My wife and I went away for the weekend and on our return, found a note at the bottom of our stairs from the police, informing us that they had found our front door wide open and had gone inside to make sure we hadnt been robbed, they'd been into every room (we've found the dirty footprints) and secured the door on their way out.
We wrote to the police about this and thanked the officers in question.
In my opinion, the US should do the same.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241444</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>clang\_jangle</author>
	<datestamp>1259244900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The crime took place on British soil. Why is he being extradited?
<br>
Or, if you want to take the view that the servers were on US soil, why have people posting to US servers been prosecuted in Britain for hate speech? You can't have it both ways.</p></div></blockquote><p>
But you just demonstrated that they <i>do</i> have it both ways. Do try to keep up, old horse...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The crime took place on British soil .
Why is he being extradited ?
Or , if you want to take the view that the servers were on US soil , why have people posting to US servers been prosecuted in Britain for hate speech ?
You ca n't have it both ways .
But you just demonstrated that they do have it both ways .
Do try to keep up , old horse.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The crime took place on British soil.
Why is he being extradited?
Or, if you want to take the view that the servers were on US soil, why have people posting to US servers been prosecuted in Britain for hate speech?
You can't have it both ways.
But you just demonstrated that they do have it both ways.
Do try to keep up, old horse...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240558</id>
	<title>fkp Taco</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259237880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>share, this 83ws</htmltext>
<tokenext>share , this 83ws</tokentext>
<sentencetext>share, this 83ws</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30244830</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259331720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"goatse-esque"<br>What a word!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" goatse-esque " What a word !
: - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"goatse-esque"What a word!
:-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240846</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30243666</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259314860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Really evil and cunning hackers like McKinno just claim they guessed passwords when ion fact they are in league with the russian mafia and the taliban, who as we all know, used adbvanced hacking techniques. he is just trying to get a sympathy vote by claiming to be a defective brainbox who can just magically guesss passwords.n Next he will be claiming that the passwords were just something like - password. !!!   just wwatch - he is so going to prove my case!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Really evil and cunning hackers like McKinno just claim they guessed passwords when ion fact they are in league with the russian mafia and the taliban , who as we all know , used adbvanced hacking techniques .
he is just trying to get a sympathy vote by claiming to be a defective brainbox who can just magically guesss passwords.n Next he will be claiming that the passwords were just something like - password .
! ! ! just wwatch - he is so going to prove my case !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Really evil and cunning hackers like McKinno just claim they guessed passwords when ion fact they are in league with the russian mafia and the taliban, who as we all know, used adbvanced hacking techniques.
he is just trying to get a sympathy vote by claiming to be a defective brainbox who can just magically guesss passwords.n Next he will be claiming that the passwords were just something like - password.
!!!   just wwatch - he is so going to prove my case!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240776</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241978</id>
	<title>Re:Disgusting, gross injustice</title>
	<author>Wyatt Earp</author>
	<datestamp>1259250060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>US Federal Prisons are not "for-profit".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>US Federal Prisons are not " for-profit " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>US Federal Prisons are not "for-profit".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241750</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241802</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259248200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I just want you to know that your post has been submitted along with a lengthy note from myself to the UK Home Office directly in the form of a complaint.</p><p>It is clear that no one in their right mind would hack into a government computer and for him to have guessed the passwords without tools shows that he isn't even a hacker at all.</p><p>His thinking was obviously impaired and even if he was a hacker, how can you reasonably say that he deserves to be convicted anyway because he would have done it when you could NEVER put him in the position of, hypothetically, being able to get away with it if he didn't have Asperger's Syndrome!</p><p>You just can't do that!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I just want you to know that your post has been submitted along with a lengthy note from myself to the UK Home Office directly in the form of a complaint.It is clear that no one in their right mind would hack into a government computer and for him to have guessed the passwords without tools shows that he is n't even a hacker at all.His thinking was obviously impaired and even if he was a hacker , how can you reasonably say that he deserves to be convicted anyway because he would have done it when you could NEVER put him in the position of , hypothetically , being able to get away with it if he did n't have Asperger 's Syndrome ! You just ca n't do that !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just want you to know that your post has been submitted along with a lengthy note from myself to the UK Home Office directly in the form of a complaint.It is clear that no one in their right mind would hack into a government computer and for him to have guessed the passwords without tools shows that he isn't even a hacker at all.His thinking was obviously impaired and even if he was a hacker, how can you reasonably say that he deserves to be convicted anyway because he would have done it when you could NEVER put him in the position of, hypothetically, being able to get away with it if he didn't have Asperger's Syndrome!You just can't do that!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240776</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241284</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259243460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"He was intelligent enough not to do something leading to murder charges, so it's obvious he knew what he had already done was wrong and illegal."</p><p>What you are saying, in effect, is that due to the fact that Mr. McKinnon knows better than to stab himself in the face with a fork, he should be punished for hacking into a government computer where anyone with a brain knows you WILL be traced.</p><p>Consider how your logic looks.</p><p>Did you even BOTHER to read WHAT THE FUCK ASPERGER'S SYNDROME IS, WHAT IT DOES, HOW IT WORKS, HOW IT EFFECTS PEOPLE, WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON AT ALL BEFORE YOU OPENED YOUR MOUTH AND DECLARED EXTENDED TERM IN PRISON?!!!!!!</p><p>WHAT KIND OF IDIOT HACKS INTO A GOVERNMENT COMPUTER INDEED YOU NITWIT!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" He was intelligent enough not to do something leading to murder charges , so it 's obvious he knew what he had already done was wrong and illegal .
" What you are saying , in effect , is that due to the fact that Mr. McKinnon knows better than to stab himself in the face with a fork , he should be punished for hacking into a government computer where anyone with a brain knows you WILL be traced.Consider how your logic looks.Did you even BOTHER to read WHAT THE FUCK ASPERGER 'S SYNDROME IS , WHAT IT DOES , HOW IT WORKS , HOW IT EFFECTS PEOPLE , WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON AT ALL BEFORE YOU OPENED YOUR MOUTH AND DECLARED EXTENDED TERM IN PRISON ? ! ! ! ! !
! WHAT KIND OF IDIOT HACKS INTO A GOVERNMENT COMPUTER INDEED YOU NITWIT !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"He was intelligent enough not to do something leading to murder charges, so it's obvious he knew what he had already done was wrong and illegal.
"What you are saying, in effect, is that due to the fact that Mr. McKinnon knows better than to stab himself in the face with a fork, he should be punished for hacking into a government computer where anyone with a brain knows you WILL be traced.Consider how your logic looks.Did you even BOTHER to read WHAT THE FUCK ASPERGER'S SYNDROME IS, WHAT IT DOES, HOW IT WORKS, HOW IT EFFECTS PEOPLE, WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON AT ALL BEFORE YOU OPENED YOUR MOUTH AND DECLARED EXTENDED TERM IN PRISON?!!!!!
!WHAT KIND OF IDIOT HACKS INTO A GOVERNMENT COMPUTER INDEED YOU NITWIT!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240682</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241478</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259245200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The crime took place on British soil.  Why is he being extradited?</p><p>Or, if you want to take the view that the servers were on US soil, why have people posting to US servers been prosecuted in Britain for hate speech?  You can't have it both ways.</p></div><p>Several reasons. First the actual break ins took place on US soil he simply accomplished this remotely. Also this is a Federal crime involving security. If it was for a 911 attacker that helped plan the attack the US would demand their return and not be happy to have them tried in Saudia Arabia. Yes I know this wasn't 911 but we are talking laws and not acts and the laws are largely the same. I know the family is now upset but I have to question if they were aware of his behavior and if they attempted to stop him? He may have been after UFO data but this is a serious security breach and if the US didn't pursue the case then it sets a president for the next time some one does it and they may not be just after UFO records. I also consider his claims of finding records but he couldn't save them suspect. If he's a hacker I have to believe he's aware of "print screen"? Macs are big on blocking screen grabs but generally the utility works with PCs and even if it was disabled I'm fairly sure he could have used another method. I think his claims were more for rationalizing his behavior than any real world shattering info he found. The UFO extremist have all claimed the government is trying to shut him up but I have yet to hear anything world shaking revealed.</p><p>This seems to be a straightforward case of illegally breaking into government computers. His medical condition complicates the matter but it doesn't excuse the behavior. He was well aware of the fact he was breaking the law and compromising security. He only got scared when he faced jail time. I tend to think the family was aware of what he was doing but didn't concern themselves with it until he got caught. If he wasn't fully aware of what he was doing then the family should have taken responsibility. Demanding special treatment after the fact is questionable. If he isn't responsible for his actions then he shouldn't be living alone. If he's known not to hack into other computers and he isn't responsible mentally then take away his computer and/or internet connection. If the guy was a pyromaniac he doesn't have the God given right to own and use matches and gasoline.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The crime took place on British soil .
Why is he being extradited ? Or , if you want to take the view that the servers were on US soil , why have people posting to US servers been prosecuted in Britain for hate speech ?
You ca n't have it both ways.Several reasons .
First the actual break ins took place on US soil he simply accomplished this remotely .
Also this is a Federal crime involving security .
If it was for a 911 attacker that helped plan the attack the US would demand their return and not be happy to have them tried in Saudia Arabia .
Yes I know this was n't 911 but we are talking laws and not acts and the laws are largely the same .
I know the family is now upset but I have to question if they were aware of his behavior and if they attempted to stop him ?
He may have been after UFO data but this is a serious security breach and if the US did n't pursue the case then it sets a president for the next time some one does it and they may not be just after UFO records .
I also consider his claims of finding records but he could n't save them suspect .
If he 's a hacker I have to believe he 's aware of " print screen " ?
Macs are big on blocking screen grabs but generally the utility works with PCs and even if it was disabled I 'm fairly sure he could have used another method .
I think his claims were more for rationalizing his behavior than any real world shattering info he found .
The UFO extremist have all claimed the government is trying to shut him up but I have yet to hear anything world shaking revealed.This seems to be a straightforward case of illegally breaking into government computers .
His medical condition complicates the matter but it does n't excuse the behavior .
He was well aware of the fact he was breaking the law and compromising security .
He only got scared when he faced jail time .
I tend to think the family was aware of what he was doing but did n't concern themselves with it until he got caught .
If he was n't fully aware of what he was doing then the family should have taken responsibility .
Demanding special treatment after the fact is questionable .
If he is n't responsible for his actions then he should n't be living alone .
If he 's known not to hack into other computers and he is n't responsible mentally then take away his computer and/or internet connection .
If the guy was a pyromaniac he does n't have the God given right to own and use matches and gasoline .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The crime took place on British soil.
Why is he being extradited?Or, if you want to take the view that the servers were on US soil, why have people posting to US servers been prosecuted in Britain for hate speech?
You can't have it both ways.Several reasons.
First the actual break ins took place on US soil he simply accomplished this remotely.
Also this is a Federal crime involving security.
If it was for a 911 attacker that helped plan the attack the US would demand their return and not be happy to have them tried in Saudia Arabia.
Yes I know this wasn't 911 but we are talking laws and not acts and the laws are largely the same.
I know the family is now upset but I have to question if they were aware of his behavior and if they attempted to stop him?
He may have been after UFO data but this is a serious security breach and if the US didn't pursue the case then it sets a president for the next time some one does it and they may not be just after UFO records.
I also consider his claims of finding records but he couldn't save them suspect.
If he's a hacker I have to believe he's aware of "print screen"?
Macs are big on blocking screen grabs but generally the utility works with PCs and even if it was disabled I'm fairly sure he could have used another method.
I think his claims were more for rationalizing his behavior than any real world shattering info he found.
The UFO extremist have all claimed the government is trying to shut him up but I have yet to hear anything world shaking revealed.This seems to be a straightforward case of illegally breaking into government computers.
His medical condition complicates the matter but it doesn't excuse the behavior.
He was well aware of the fact he was breaking the law and compromising security.
He only got scared when he faced jail time.
I tend to think the family was aware of what he was doing but didn't concern themselves with it until he got caught.
If he wasn't fully aware of what he was doing then the family should have taken responsibility.
Demanding special treatment after the fact is questionable.
If he isn't responsible for his actions then he shouldn't be living alone.
If he's known not to hack into other computers and he isn't responsible mentally then take away his computer and/or internet connection.
If the guy was a pyromaniac he doesn't have the God given right to own and use matches and gasoline.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30242750</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>SecurityGuy</author>
	<datestamp>1259258640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>On the contrary, the systems would have been examined, wiped and then put back into service, and that's 100 different systems.  Doing this, especially on federal systems where there are lots of rules about how to do it, is expensive.  That it averaged $7000 per system really doesn't surprise me.</p><p>I have no sympathy for this guy.  You don't get to damage someone else's property then whine that it turned out to be expensive to fix.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>On the contrary , the systems would have been examined , wiped and then put back into service , and that 's 100 different systems .
Doing this , especially on federal systems where there are lots of rules about how to do it , is expensive .
That it averaged $ 7000 per system really does n't surprise me.I have no sympathy for this guy .
You do n't get to damage someone else 's property then whine that it turned out to be expensive to fix .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On the contrary, the systems would have been examined, wiped and then put back into service, and that's 100 different systems.
Doing this, especially on federal systems where there are lots of rules about how to do it, is expensive.
That it averaged $7000 per system really doesn't surprise me.I have no sympathy for this guy.
You don't get to damage someone else's property then whine that it turned out to be expensive to fix.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240776</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30243306</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259353140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How do you know he was "only looking for UFO's" and didn't cause any actual harm or come across or expose information that could cause harm?  Hmm, sounds like something that would need to be investigated further... maybe in a trial?  say it ain't so.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How do you know he was " only looking for UFO 's " and did n't cause any actual harm or come across or expose information that could cause harm ?
Hmm , sounds like something that would need to be investigated further... maybe in a trial ?
say it ai n't so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How do you know he was "only looking for UFO's" and didn't cause any actual harm or come across or expose information that could cause harm?
Hmm, sounds like something that would need to be investigated further... maybe in a trial?
say it ain't so.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240846</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30243284</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>swjenner</author>
	<datestamp>1259352900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Apparently most of these "passwords" were either blank "            " or "PASSWORD" or something equally clever.

Nice!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Apparently most of these " passwords " were either blank " " or " PASSWORD " or something equally clever .
Nice !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Apparently most of these "passwords" were either blank "            " or "PASSWORD" or something equally clever.
Nice!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240776</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30242920</id>
	<title>Let Alan Johnson know what you think of him</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259261220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'd suggest dropping Alan Johnson a line and letting him know exactly what you think of him:
<a href="http://www.alanjohnson.org/?page\_id=58" title="alanjohnson.org" rel="nofollow">Alan Johnson MP</a> [alanjohnson.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd suggest dropping Alan Johnson a line and letting him know exactly what you think of him : Alan Johnson MP [ alanjohnson.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd suggest dropping Alan Johnson a line and letting him know exactly what you think of him:
Alan Johnson MP [alanjohnson.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30245840</id>
	<title>It isn't just bandying about.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259339760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It isn't just bandying about. Extradition requires a certain level of federal crime to be committed. By the *actual* damages done, McKinnon would not come under that definition of extraditable crime.</p><p>so the $700,000 IS DEFINITELY part of the extradition: without it there would be no extradition.</p><p>NOTE: they want to try him for post facto law. The US government brought in a law AFTER the hack and now want to charge him with it.</p><p>Which is against the constitution.</p><p>PS I wonder if China will extraordinarily rendition people from the NSA for hacking crimes...?</p><p>PPS since the US still has the death penalty, extradition to that barbaric country the US should be disallowed by EU laws.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is n't just bandying about .
Extradition requires a certain level of federal crime to be committed .
By the * actual * damages done , McKinnon would not come under that definition of extraditable crime.so the $ 700,000 IS DEFINITELY part of the extradition : without it there would be no extradition.NOTE : they want to try him for post facto law .
The US government brought in a law AFTER the hack and now want to charge him with it.Which is against the constitution.PS I wonder if China will extraordinarily rendition people from the NSA for hacking crimes... ? PPS since the US still has the death penalty , extradition to that barbaric country the US should be disallowed by EU laws .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It isn't just bandying about.
Extradition requires a certain level of federal crime to be committed.
By the *actual* damages done, McKinnon would not come under that definition of extraditable crime.so the $700,000 IS DEFINITELY part of the extradition: without it there would be no extradition.NOTE: they want to try him for post facto law.
The US government brought in a law AFTER the hack and now want to charge him with it.Which is against the constitution.PS I wonder if China will extraordinarily rendition people from the NSA for hacking crimes...?PPS since the US still has the death penalty, extradition to that barbaric country the US should be disallowed by EU laws.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241196</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30243078</id>
	<title>I don't get it..</title>
	<author>magnwa</author>
	<datestamp>1259263680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't understand why everyone's mad at the US.</p><p>The US is doing what their law says to do.  They have an extradition treaty with the UK.  Therefore, they requested extradition.</p><p>REQUESTED extradition.  They didn't "demand" it.  They didn't "order" the UK to.  They didn't send in CIA commandos to kidnap the 43 year old hacker and bring him back on a C130 in the dead of night.</p><p>They asked.</p><p>The UK's response was, "Why sure, here you go!  We don't want to prosecute this case here."</p><p>I cannot contemplate why the people from the UK who are angry at the US are angry at the US.  It's YOUR country that's selling out a citizen of your country.  It's YOUR country that, instead of saying "No, US.  We're going to follow our extradition treaty and elect to prosecute here" that handed this man over.</p><p>Your country has the ability to prosecute him in the UK.  They can do it.  They chose not to.  Don't blame my country for requesting extradition of a criminal.  If your countryman was really an innocent aspie, your country should stand up for him.</p><p>Jeeze.  Grow a pair.  Everyone bitches about the US , all the time, and sure, we have some problems here.. but instead of whining about OUR problems, perhaps you should ask your OWN GOVERNMENT why they're selling out their citizens.</p><p>Let us in the States try to make our country better.  You work on your own damn country.. cause it's no land of plenty.</p><p>I assure you of this, though.  If the situation was reversed.. THIS country, the US, wouldn't be so quick to sell out its citizens.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't understand why everyone 's mad at the US.The US is doing what their law says to do .
They have an extradition treaty with the UK .
Therefore , they requested extradition.REQUESTED extradition .
They did n't " demand " it .
They did n't " order " the UK to .
They did n't send in CIA commandos to kidnap the 43 year old hacker and bring him back on a C130 in the dead of night.They asked.The UK 's response was , " Why sure , here you go !
We do n't want to prosecute this case here .
" I can not contemplate why the people from the UK who are angry at the US are angry at the US .
It 's YOUR country that 's selling out a citizen of your country .
It 's YOUR country that , instead of saying " No , US .
We 're going to follow our extradition treaty and elect to prosecute here " that handed this man over.Your country has the ability to prosecute him in the UK .
They can do it .
They chose not to .
Do n't blame my country for requesting extradition of a criminal .
If your countryman was really an innocent aspie , your country should stand up for him.Jeeze .
Grow a pair .
Everyone bitches about the US , all the time , and sure , we have some problems here.. but instead of whining about OUR problems , perhaps you should ask your OWN GOVERNMENT why they 're selling out their citizens.Let us in the States try to make our country better .
You work on your own damn country.. cause it 's no land of plenty.I assure you of this , though .
If the situation was reversed.. THIS country , the US , would n't be so quick to sell out its citizens .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't understand why everyone's mad at the US.The US is doing what their law says to do.
They have an extradition treaty with the UK.
Therefore, they requested extradition.REQUESTED extradition.
They didn't "demand" it.
They didn't "order" the UK to.
They didn't send in CIA commandos to kidnap the 43 year old hacker and bring him back on a C130 in the dead of night.They asked.The UK's response was, "Why sure, here you go!
We don't want to prosecute this case here.
"I cannot contemplate why the people from the UK who are angry at the US are angry at the US.
It's YOUR country that's selling out a citizen of your country.
It's YOUR country that, instead of saying "No, US.
We're going to follow our extradition treaty and elect to prosecute here" that handed this man over.Your country has the ability to prosecute him in the UK.
They can do it.
They chose not to.
Don't blame my country for requesting extradition of a criminal.
If your countryman was really an innocent aspie, your country should stand up for him.Jeeze.
Grow a pair.
Everyone bitches about the US , all the time, and sure, we have some problems here.. but instead of whining about OUR problems, perhaps you should ask your OWN GOVERNMENT why they're selling out their citizens.Let us in the States try to make our country better.
You work on your own damn country.. cause it's no land of plenty.I assure you of this, though.
If the situation was reversed.. THIS country, the US, wouldn't be so quick to sell out its citizens.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30242226</id>
	<title>Appeal announced - article 0214am UK time</title>
	<author>zevans</author>
	<datestamp>1259253360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8382066.stm" title="bbc.co.uk">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8382066.stm</a> [bbc.co.uk]</p><p>This is for a judicial review of the Home Office decision. So they've not played the European or the Human Rights cards yet.</p><p>And with that, my karma-whoring is complete.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8382066.stm [ bbc.co.uk ] This is for a judicial review of the Home Office decision .
So they 've not played the European or the Human Rights cards yet.And with that , my karma-whoring is complete .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8382066.stm [bbc.co.uk]This is for a judicial review of the Home Office decision.
So they've not played the European or the Human Rights cards yet.And with that, my karma-whoring is complete.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240562</id>
	<title>Re:UK citizen?</title>
	<author>BitterOak</author>
	<datestamp>1259237940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I have not read much on this case, from skimming his wikipedia page</p><p> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary\_McKinnon" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary\_McKinnon</a> [wikipedia.org]<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...it seems he is a UK citizen, right? Why would the UK extradite a citizen to the US? If it were the other way around I think an extradition would be very unlikely.</p></div><p>I honestly don't understand why so many people think he shouldn't be extradited.  The way most extradition treaties work is if you commit a crime in or against a country with which you have an extradition treaty, and if that crime is also a crime in your home country, then you are extradited.  I think Britain has hacking laws, so this seems fairly clear cut.  Why do so many people have a problem with extraditing him?  Is it because you think hacking shouldn't be a crime, or what?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have not read much on this case , from skimming his wikipedia page http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary \ _McKinnon [ wikipedia.org ] ...it seems he is a UK citizen , right ?
Why would the UK extradite a citizen to the US ?
If it were the other way around I think an extradition would be very unlikely.I honestly do n't understand why so many people think he should n't be extradited .
The way most extradition treaties work is if you commit a crime in or against a country with which you have an extradition treaty , and if that crime is also a crime in your home country , then you are extradited .
I think Britain has hacking laws , so this seems fairly clear cut .
Why do so many people have a problem with extraditing him ?
Is it because you think hacking should n't be a crime , or what ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have not read much on this case, from skimming his wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary\_McKinnon [wikipedia.org] ...it seems he is a UK citizen, right?
Why would the UK extradite a citizen to the US?
If it were the other way around I think an extradition would be very unlikely.I honestly don't understand why so many people think he shouldn't be extradited.
The way most extradition treaties work is if you commit a crime in or against a country with which you have an extradition treaty, and if that crime is also a crime in your home country, then you are extradited.
I think Britain has hacking laws, so this seems fairly clear cut.
Why do so many people have a problem with extraditing him?
Is it because you think hacking shouldn't be a crime, or what?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30243372</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>dave420</author>
	<datestamp>1259354040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't want McKinnon to be extradited, but the actual damage he did was he caused the owners of the systems to have to check each and every one of them for damage.  That is unavoidable - you don't know if he installed anything dodgy or screwed with something.  There is simply no way round it - any system he touched has to be practically rebuilt.  But yes, this is incredibly embarrassing for the owners of the computers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't want McKinnon to be extradited , but the actual damage he did was he caused the owners of the systems to have to check each and every one of them for damage .
That is unavoidable - you do n't know if he installed anything dodgy or screwed with something .
There is simply no way round it - any system he touched has to be practically rebuilt .
But yes , this is incredibly embarrassing for the owners of the computers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't want McKinnon to be extradited, but the actual damage he did was he caused the owners of the systems to have to check each and every one of them for damage.
That is unavoidable - you don't know if he installed anything dodgy or screwed with something.
There is simply no way round it - any system he touched has to be practically rebuilt.
But yes, this is incredibly embarrassing for the owners of the computers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240776</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30244292</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>ConfusedVorlon</author>
	<datestamp>1259323200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>the 'guessing' was that he just tried for administrator accounts which didn't have passwords.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>the 'guessing ' was that he just tried for administrator accounts which did n't have passwords .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the 'guessing' was that he just tried for administrator accounts which didn't have passwords.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240776</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30244952</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>gclef</author>
	<datestamp>1259332920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I don't see why the Brits couldn't just fine him up the wazoo and make him work for free while on house-arrest.</p></div><p>They can't do that because the Brits have a treaty with the US that obligates them to hand over crime suspects to the US if requested.  (The lopsidedness of that treaty is also an issue here.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't see why the Brits could n't just fine him up the wazoo and make him work for free while on house-arrest.They ca n't do that because the Brits have a treaty with the US that obligates them to hand over crime suspects to the US if requested .
( The lopsidedness of that treaty is also an issue here .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't see why the Brits couldn't just fine him up the wazoo and make him work for free while on house-arrest.They can't do that because the Brits have a treaty with the US that obligates them to hand over crime suspects to the US if requested.
(The lopsidedness of that treaty is also an issue here.
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240846</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30244370</id>
	<title>Re:Extradition to countries that practice torture?</title>
	<author>Tim C</author>
	<datestamp>1259324340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh that's ok then - as long as everyone else is doing it too it must be all right for us to!</p><p>Sorry, that excuse doesn't work in the playground, it sure as shit shouldn't work now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh that 's ok then - as long as everyone else is doing it too it must be all right for us to ! Sorry , that excuse does n't work in the playground , it sure as shit should n't work now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh that's ok then - as long as everyone else is doing it too it must be all right for us to!Sorry, that excuse doesn't work in the playground, it sure as shit shouldn't work now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30242656</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240572</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>Raisey-raison</author>
	<datestamp>1259237940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>...and Asperger's sufferer...</p></div><p>This has NOTHING to do with this issue.</p></div><p>Er given that Aspergers is a form of autism thus making it inappropriate to extradite him, it actually has a lot to do with the issue. Have you ever met anyone on the autistic spectrum?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...and Asperger 's sufferer...This has NOTHING to do with this issue.Er given that Aspergers is a form of autism thus making it inappropriate to extradite him , it actually has a lot to do with the issue .
Have you ever met anyone on the autistic spectrum ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...and Asperger's sufferer...This has NOTHING to do with this issue.Er given that Aspergers is a form of autism thus making it inappropriate to extradite him, it actually has a lot to do with the issue.
Have you ever met anyone on the autistic spectrum?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30242460</id>
	<title>Re:UK citizen?</title>
	<author>phayes</author>
	<datestamp>1259255340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>3: Your declaration that he cannot get a fair trial in the US exposes your bias. He'll do time for confessing to unauthorized access to USG computers &amp; refusing to assume any responsibility for his actions.</htmltext>
<tokenext>3 : Your declaration that he can not get a fair trial in the US exposes your bias .
He 'll do time for confessing to unauthorized access to USG computers &amp; refusing to assume any responsibility for his actions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>3: Your declaration that he cannot get a fair trial in the US exposes your bias.
He'll do time for confessing to unauthorized access to USG computers &amp; refusing to assume any responsibility for his actions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240920</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241118</id>
	<title>Re:UK citizen?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259241900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I honestly don't understand why so many people think he shouldn't be extradited.</p></div><p>Because he has Aperger's, you cad.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I honestly do n't understand why so many people think he should n't be extradited.Because he has Aperger 's , you cad .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I honestly don't understand why so many people think he shouldn't be extradited.Because he has Aperger's, you cad.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240562</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241242</id>
	<title>Fair Trial?</title>
	<author>Stan92057</author>
	<datestamp>1259243040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How is he going to get a fair trial,he will not have a jury of his peers,they all live in the UK. Are we going to extradite them as well??</htmltext>
<tokenext>How is he going to get a fair trial,he will not have a jury of his peers,they all live in the UK .
Are we going to extradite them as well ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How is he going to get a fair trial,he will not have a jury of his peers,they all live in the UK.
Are we going to extradite them as well?
?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240832</id>
	<title>He wouldn't get that much for MURDER</title>
	<author>Nicolas MONNET</author>
	<datestamp>1259239800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>in the EU. In the US he risks over 10 years in jail for hacking crappy computers. That's what you'd get around here for murder (except for the worst types I guess)</p><p>To those retards who will say "you do the crime you do the time": a basic tenet of the rule of law is that nobody is supposed to ignore the law. Corollary is that you can't be supposed to know the laws of all the fucking countries on the internet when you haven't even set foor there. Here he would hardly get more than a suspended sentence for that harmless thing he did. In the US he risks over 10 years.</p><p>What if I post an anti-communist rant on a Chinese server? Or advocate for atheism on a Saudi one? Do I deserve a flogging? This all thing is a major injustice. That some people don't see that makes me mad.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>in the EU .
In the US he risks over 10 years in jail for hacking crappy computers .
That 's what you 'd get around here for murder ( except for the worst types I guess ) To those retards who will say " you do the crime you do the time " : a basic tenet of the rule of law is that nobody is supposed to ignore the law .
Corollary is that you ca n't be supposed to know the laws of all the fucking countries on the internet when you have n't even set foor there .
Here he would hardly get more than a suspended sentence for that harmless thing he did .
In the US he risks over 10 years.What if I post an anti-communist rant on a Chinese server ?
Or advocate for atheism on a Saudi one ?
Do I deserve a flogging ?
This all thing is a major injustice .
That some people do n't see that makes me mad .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>in the EU.
In the US he risks over 10 years in jail for hacking crappy computers.
That's what you'd get around here for murder (except for the worst types I guess)To those retards who will say "you do the crime you do the time": a basic tenet of the rule of law is that nobody is supposed to ignore the law.
Corollary is that you can't be supposed to know the laws of all the fucking countries on the internet when you haven't even set foor there.
Here he would hardly get more than a suspended sentence for that harmless thing he did.
In the US he risks over 10 years.What if I post an anti-communist rant on a Chinese server?
Or advocate for atheism on a Saudi one?
Do I deserve a flogging?
This all thing is a major injustice.
That some people don't see that makes me mad.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240562</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30242998</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>LordLimecat</author>
	<datestamp>1259262300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Had it occurred to you that people can manage this without the help of a clinical label?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Had it occurred to you that people can manage this without the help of a clinical label ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Had it occurred to you that people can manage this without the help of a clinical label?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240886</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240752</id>
	<title>Re:UK citizen?</title>
	<author>gzunk</author>
	<datestamp>1259239260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I suppose because the UK laws are quite proportionate - i.e. 3 to 5 years in Jail for what he did, however because he embaressed the US authorities they're threatening 25 years to life.</p><p>What he did was illegal in the UK, so what should happen is that he's prosecuted in the UK (since he did the crime here, he just modified US servers through "indirect action" of electrons...)</p><p>But that's not what the US wants, and we all know, what the US wants, the US gets.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I suppose because the UK laws are quite proportionate - i.e .
3 to 5 years in Jail for what he did , however because he embaressed the US authorities they 're threatening 25 years to life.What he did was illegal in the UK , so what should happen is that he 's prosecuted in the UK ( since he did the crime here , he just modified US servers through " indirect action " of electrons... ) But that 's not what the US wants , and we all know , what the US wants , the US gets .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I suppose because the UK laws are quite proportionate - i.e.
3 to 5 years in Jail for what he did, however because he embaressed the US authorities they're threatening 25 years to life.What he did was illegal in the UK, so what should happen is that he's prosecuted in the UK (since he did the crime here, he just modified US servers through "indirect action" of electrons...)But that's not what the US wants, and we all know, what the US wants, the US gets.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240562</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240682</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>AKMask</author>
	<datestamp>1259238720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why would it be inappropriate to extradite him? The fuckwit caused massive amounts of damage, and committed what is unquestionably a criminal act, breaking in to the Pentagon computer network. If he had taken it a step farther and sold the information found in there lives could have been lost. He was intelligent enough not to do something leading to murder charges, so it's obvious he knew what he had already done was wrong and illegal. This contrasts nicely with copyright cases that are only a civil issue. It's easy to tell the people who want to reform internet law with those who want to do away with it altogether in threads like these.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why would it be inappropriate to extradite him ?
The fuckwit caused massive amounts of damage , and committed what is unquestionably a criminal act , breaking in to the Pentagon computer network .
If he had taken it a step farther and sold the information found in there lives could have been lost .
He was intelligent enough not to do something leading to murder charges , so it 's obvious he knew what he had already done was wrong and illegal .
This contrasts nicely with copyright cases that are only a civil issue .
It 's easy to tell the people who want to reform internet law with those who want to do away with it altogether in threads like these .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why would it be inappropriate to extradite him?
The fuckwit caused massive amounts of damage, and committed what is unquestionably a criminal act, breaking in to the Pentagon computer network.
If he had taken it a step farther and sold the information found in there lives could have been lost.
He was intelligent enough not to do something leading to murder charges, so it's obvious he knew what he had already done was wrong and illegal.
This contrasts nicely with copyright cases that are only a civil issue.
It's easy to tell the people who want to reform internet law with those who want to do away with it altogether in threads like these.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240572</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30242032</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259250540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You didn't bother to read the article - he was looking for evidence of UFOs, didn't cause damage and logged on to a number of systems<br>with blank or default passwords.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You did n't bother to read the article - he was looking for evidence of UFOs , did n't cause damage and logged on to a number of systemswith blank or default passwords .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You didn't bother to read the article - he was looking for evidence of UFOs, didn't cause damage and logged on to a number of systemswith blank or default passwords.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240682</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240776</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259239380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>What he did didn't cause much damage at all. The guy was an amateur whose only way to break into computers was guessing passwords. No tools, just guessing. Any account that he broke in had a password that was so weak it could be \_guessed\_. And since these accounts belonged to the US Army, the thing is embarrassing beyond belief to the US Army. His crime wasn't hacking into computers, his crime was embarrassing the US Army. <br> <br>
The "huge damages" he caused where the fact that the US Army had to change their ridiculous unsafe passwords to something safe. The US Army just cannot admit that an amateur looking for UFOs didn't hack into their computers, but just managed to \_guess\_ dozens of passwords. So they have to throw the book at him to safe face.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What he did did n't cause much damage at all .
The guy was an amateur whose only way to break into computers was guessing passwords .
No tools , just guessing .
Any account that he broke in had a password that was so weak it could be \ _guessed \ _ .
And since these accounts belonged to the US Army , the thing is embarrassing beyond belief to the US Army .
His crime was n't hacking into computers , his crime was embarrassing the US Army .
The " huge damages " he caused where the fact that the US Army had to change their ridiculous unsafe passwords to something safe .
The US Army just can not admit that an amateur looking for UFOs did n't hack into their computers , but just managed to \ _guess \ _ dozens of passwords .
So they have to throw the book at him to safe face .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What he did didn't cause much damage at all.
The guy was an amateur whose only way to break into computers was guessing passwords.
No tools, just guessing.
Any account that he broke in had a password that was so weak it could be \_guessed\_.
And since these accounts belonged to the US Army, the thing is embarrassing beyond belief to the US Army.
His crime wasn't hacking into computers, his crime was embarrassing the US Army.
The "huge damages" he caused where the fact that the US Army had to change their ridiculous unsafe passwords to something safe.
The US Army just cannot admit that an amateur looking for UFOs didn't hack into their computers, but just managed to \_guess\_ dozens of passwords.
So they have to throw the book at him to safe face.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240682</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30243736</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259315760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He did no more than what most children would do in the same situation.  The main difference is that he was not a child, just a numbty.  This is all smoke and mirrors to stop people from asking which fuckwit left such an important computer system wide open.  He did not use any special skill, the system was not secure but the person that was paid to make it secure will not be prosecuted for that incompetence...</p><p>So an extradition treaty that was set up to deal with terrorists is used to persecute numbties because a terrorist cannot be extradited as that would be against his human rights (as he may face a death sentence) but this idiot is going to be hung out to dry.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He did no more than what most children would do in the same situation .
The main difference is that he was not a child , just a numbty .
This is all smoke and mirrors to stop people from asking which fuckwit left such an important computer system wide open .
He did not use any special skill , the system was not secure but the person that was paid to make it secure will not be prosecuted for that incompetence...So an extradition treaty that was set up to deal with terrorists is used to persecute numbties because a terrorist can not be extradited as that would be against his human rights ( as he may face a death sentence ) but this idiot is going to be hung out to dry .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He did no more than what most children would do in the same situation.
The main difference is that he was not a child, just a numbty.
This is all smoke and mirrors to stop people from asking which fuckwit left such an important computer system wide open.
He did not use any special skill, the system was not secure but the person that was paid to make it secure will not be prosecuted for that incompetence...So an extradition treaty that was set up to deal with terrorists is used to persecute numbties because a terrorist cannot be extradited as that would be against his human rights (as he may face a death sentence) but this idiot is going to be hung out to dry.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240682</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241716</id>
	<title>Re:UK citizen?</title>
	<author>Anonymous Cowpat</author>
	<datestamp>1259247420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>they did, they sued the director of public prosecution to force him to charge McKinnon here. He used some pathetic cop-out about most of the evidence being in the US, as if it nobody could have said to the DoJ "you want a realistic prospect of this guy being convicted? send the evidence over".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>they did , they sued the director of public prosecution to force him to charge McKinnon here .
He used some pathetic cop-out about most of the evidence being in the US , as if it nobody could have said to the DoJ " you want a realistic prospect of this guy being convicted ?
send the evidence over " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>they did, they sued the director of public prosecution to force him to charge McKinnon here.
He used some pathetic cop-out about most of the evidence being in the US, as if it nobody could have said to the DoJ "you want a realistic prospect of this guy being convicted?
send the evidence over".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240780</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30243822</id>
	<title>Re:Awesome job!</title>
	<author>L4t3r4lu5</author>
	<datestamp>1259316900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Gray" McKinnon? He wasn't looking for aliens info he suspected being there... He was looking for where they'd hidden his flying saucer<br> <br>It's always the eyes which give them away...</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Gray " McKinnon ?
He was n't looking for aliens info he suspected being there... He was looking for where they 'd hidden his flying saucer It 's always the eyes which give them away.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Gray" McKinnon?
He wasn't looking for aliens info he suspected being there... He was looking for where they'd hidden his flying saucer It's always the eyes which give them away...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30241190</id>
	<title>Re:Good grief!</title>
	<author>stumblingblock</author>
	<datestamp>1259242560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, if someone just happened to guess that if he filed the key blank a certain way, the door would be open, which of course indicates he is entitled to enter. Useful logic.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , if someone just happened to guess that if he filed the key blank a certain way , the door would be open , which of course indicates he is entitled to enter .
Useful logic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, if someone just happened to guess that if he filed the key blank a certain way, the door would be open, which of course indicates he is entitled to enter.
Useful logic.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240776</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30244070</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259319360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why did the USA never extradite IRA terrorists?</p><p>The whole situation is completely messed up. In 1969 the British people decided they did not agree with America's barbaric justice system. Why is our government so unconcerned about sending a proverbial lamb to the slaughter in such a way?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why did the USA never extradite IRA terrorists ? The whole situation is completely messed up .
In 1969 the British people decided they did not agree with America 's barbaric justice system .
Why is our government so unconcerned about sending a proverbial lamb to the slaughter in such a way ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why did the USA never extradite IRA terrorists?The whole situation is completely messed up.
In 1969 the British people decided they did not agree with America's barbaric justice system.
Why is our government so unconcerned about sending a proverbial lamb to the slaughter in such a way?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30243846</id>
	<title>Re:$700,000</title>
	<author>L4t3r4lu5</author>
	<datestamp>1259317320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Car analogy? Sure!<br> <br>It's like someone taking your car for a joyride overnight, returning it undamaged and with a full tank of fuel (exactly as you had left it), the guy leaving a note saying "Sweet wheels. Your locks suck, though" and you then charging the guy $5000 to have a new alarm and immobiliser system fitted.<br> <br>Great thing is that if he <b>had</b> trashed the systems, he'd probably be walking free at the moment. It doesn't take a genius to head on over to a public hotspot with no CCTV and route your traffic through a VPN / Tor connection.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Car analogy ?
Sure ! It 's like someone taking your car for a joyride overnight , returning it undamaged and with a full tank of fuel ( exactly as you had left it ) , the guy leaving a note saying " Sweet wheels .
Your locks suck , though " and you then charging the guy $ 5000 to have a new alarm and immobiliser system fitted .
Great thing is that if he had trashed the systems , he 'd probably be walking free at the moment .
It does n't take a genius to head on over to a public hotspot with no CCTV and route your traffic through a VPN / Tor connection .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Car analogy?
Sure! It's like someone taking your car for a joyride overnight, returning it undamaged and with a full tank of fuel (exactly as you had left it), the guy leaving a note saying "Sweet wheels.
Your locks suck, though" and you then charging the guy $5000 to have a new alarm and immobiliser system fitted.
Great thing is that if he had trashed the systems, he'd probably be walking free at the moment.
It doesn't take a genius to head on over to a public hotspot with no CCTV and route your traffic through a VPN / Tor connection.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240654</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240462</id>
	<title>Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259237220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The crime took place on British soil.  Why is he being extradited?</p><p>Or, if you want to take the view that the servers were on US soil, why have people posting to US servers been prosecuted in Britain for hate speech?  You can't have it both ways.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The crime took place on British soil .
Why is he being extradited ? Or , if you want to take the view that the servers were on US soil , why have people posting to US servers been prosecuted in Britain for hate speech ?
You ca n't have it both ways .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The crime took place on British soil.
Why is he being extradited?Or, if you want to take the view that the servers were on US soil, why have people posting to US servers been prosecuted in Britain for hate speech?
You can't have it both ways.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30244616</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>dcarmi</author>
	<datestamp>1259328360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Because he admits to hacking into computer systems in the USA.  So why shouldn't he be extradited?</p></div><p>...because has he been in the US hacking UK computers, he would not be extradited to the UK to stand trial.
</p><p>The extradition treated between the UK and the US is very one-sided and ill-conceived. It has caused a fair degree of anger, in some circles this side of the pond.</p><p>This case has brought the issue to the fore and has made a wide range of people, who normally wouldn't care, feel very uncomfortable. The issue of reciprocity needs to be addressed but unfortunately for McKinnon it will be too late! When he gets to court in the US there will be massive coverage on our news channels and the levels of  anger will be heightened. The UK government knows this but they also know they won't be in power when this phase is reached.</p><p>During the news coverage McKinnon has come across as a bewildered and lost individual. Your average Brit will not like seeing such as person being hounded in a foreign environment, on the 6pm news. This is an issue that the US government should never pushed forward with, but asked local legislative processes to deal with it!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Because he admits to hacking into computer systems in the USA .
So why should n't he be extradited ? ...because has he been in the US hacking UK computers , he would not be extradited to the UK to stand trial .
The extradition treated between the UK and the US is very one-sided and ill-conceived .
It has caused a fair degree of anger , in some circles this side of the pond.This case has brought the issue to the fore and has made a wide range of people , who normally would n't care , feel very uncomfortable .
The issue of reciprocity needs to be addressed but unfortunately for McKinnon it will be too late !
When he gets to court in the US there will be massive coverage on our news channels and the levels of anger will be heightened .
The UK government knows this but they also know they wo n't be in power when this phase is reached.During the news coverage McKinnon has come across as a bewildered and lost individual .
Your average Brit will not like seeing such as person being hounded in a foreign environment , on the 6pm news .
This is an issue that the US government should never pushed forward with , but asked local legislative processes to deal with it !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because he admits to hacking into computer systems in the USA.
So why shouldn't he be extradited?...because has he been in the US hacking UK computers, he would not be extradited to the UK to stand trial.
The extradition treated between the UK and the US is very one-sided and ill-conceived.
It has caused a fair degree of anger, in some circles this side of the pond.This case has brought the issue to the fore and has made a wide range of people, who normally wouldn't care, feel very uncomfortable.
The issue of reciprocity needs to be addressed but unfortunately for McKinnon it will be too late!
When he gets to court in the US there will be massive coverage on our news channels and the levels of  anger will be heightened.
The UK government knows this but they also know they won't be in power when this phase is reached.During the news coverage McKinnon has come across as a bewildered and lost individual.
Your average Brit will not like seeing such as person being hounded in a foreign environment, on the 6pm news.
This is an issue that the US government should never pushed forward with, but asked local legislative processes to deal with it!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240658</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240658</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259238540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because he admits to hacking into computer systems in the USA.  So why shouldn't he be extradited?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because he admits to hacking into computer systems in the USA .
So why should n't he be extradited ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because he admits to hacking into computer systems in the USA.
So why shouldn't he be extradited?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30245028</id>
	<title>Re:Awesome job!</title>
	<author>Greyerg</author>
	<datestamp>1259333700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And I was so excited when I thought someone else named Gray(well, Grey in my case) was actually doing something slashdot-worthy!</htmltext>
<tokenext>And I was so excited when I thought someone else named Gray ( well , Grey in my case ) was actually doing something slashdot-worthy !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And I was so excited when I thought someone else named Gray(well, Grey in my case) was actually doing something slashdot-worthy!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240728</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259239140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's often the case that the most stringent standard is applied against the individual. So you can be prosecuted for being a breaking US federal law while being outside the USA and not a citizen of the USA and yet not have a say in what the law is in the USA. Then you get denied the benefit of the law in the USA - eg posting so called hate speech on the USA server while in the UK.</p><p>If the basis of law is consent of the governed and one who is governed never has a chance to give their consent it makes the whole concept of the 'rule of law' a farce. (I think if you are being extradited ot the USA for a crime not committed in the USA you should be able to vote while awaiting trial and given all the rights of a citizen.)</p><p>And of course if you are foreigner trying to visit the USA, then you can be treated like shit and deported. No right to work - crap all. So when the government wants to treat you like someone who belongs in the USA they can and when they want to treat you like an alien they can.</p><p>You also have to ask by what right does country x have to prosecute person 'a' for an action taken in country y. The person was not in the jurisdiction of country x when the crime was committed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's often the case that the most stringent standard is applied against the individual .
So you can be prosecuted for being a breaking US federal law while being outside the USA and not a citizen of the USA and yet not have a say in what the law is in the USA .
Then you get denied the benefit of the law in the USA - eg posting so called hate speech on the USA server while in the UK.If the basis of law is consent of the governed and one who is governed never has a chance to give their consent it makes the whole concept of the 'rule of law ' a farce .
( I think if you are being extradited ot the USA for a crime not committed in the USA you should be able to vote while awaiting trial and given all the rights of a citizen .
) And of course if you are foreigner trying to visit the USA , then you can be treated like shit and deported .
No right to work - crap all .
So when the government wants to treat you like someone who belongs in the USA they can and when they want to treat you like an alien they can.You also have to ask by what right does country x have to prosecute person 'a ' for an action taken in country y. The person was not in the jurisdiction of country x when the crime was committed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's often the case that the most stringent standard is applied against the individual.
So you can be prosecuted for being a breaking US federal law while being outside the USA and not a citizen of the USA and yet not have a say in what the law is in the USA.
Then you get denied the benefit of the law in the USA - eg posting so called hate speech on the USA server while in the UK.If the basis of law is consent of the governed and one who is governed never has a chance to give their consent it makes the whole concept of the 'rule of law' a farce.
(I think if you are being extradited ot the USA for a crime not committed in the USA you should be able to vote while awaiting trial and given all the rights of a citizen.
)And of course if you are foreigner trying to visit the USA, then you can be treated like shit and deported.
No right to work - crap all.
So when the government wants to treat you like someone who belongs in the USA they can and when they want to treat you like an alien they can.You also have to ask by what right does country x have to prosecute person 'a' for an action taken in country y. The person was not in the jurisdiction of country x when the crime was committed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240578</id>
	<title>Votes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259237940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Let's face it, he's a nerd / geek, so expendable as there are no votes in it for this government that likes to extradite TO the USA, but cannot get any wanted terrorist suspects extradited FROM the USA. That's the beauty of the extradition treaty THIS corrupt British government has, it's one way, they are a spineless government who rolls over for anyone these days, not giving a crap bout their own. The Americans never got the extradition treaty through their government machinery, they are laughing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Let 's face it , he 's a nerd / geek , so expendable as there are no votes in it for this government that likes to extradite TO the USA , but can not get any wanted terrorist suspects extradited FROM the USA .
That 's the beauty of the extradition treaty THIS corrupt British government has , it 's one way , they are a spineless government who rolls over for anyone these days , not giving a crap bout their own .
The Americans never got the extradition treaty through their government machinery , they are laughing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let's face it, he's a nerd / geek, so expendable as there are no votes in it for this government that likes to extradite TO the USA, but cannot get any wanted terrorist suspects extradited FROM the USA.
That's the beauty of the extradition treaty THIS corrupt British government has, it's one way, they are a spineless government who rolls over for anyone these days, not giving a crap bout their own.
The Americans never got the extradition treaty through their government machinery, they are laughing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240794</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>Lordnerdzrool</author>
	<datestamp>1259239500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because it was a crime against US soil. The reported damages were made on US soil. When you commit a crime on X's soil, you should be prosecuted by X, if you are to be at all.</p><p>Hate speech is different for the reason being it damages regardless of nationality of the server. It isn't a crime against a server, rather, an attack against a class of people.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because it was a crime against US soil .
The reported damages were made on US soil .
When you commit a crime on X 's soil , you should be prosecuted by X , if you are to be at all.Hate speech is different for the reason being it damages regardless of nationality of the server .
It is n't a crime against a server , rather , an attack against a class of people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because it was a crime against US soil.
The reported damages were made on US soil.
When you commit a crime on X's soil, you should be prosecuted by X, if you are to be at all.Hate speech is different for the reason being it damages regardless of nationality of the server.
It isn't a crime against a server, rather, an attack against a class of people.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240654</id>
	<title>$700,000</title>
	<author>leathered</author>
	<datestamp>1259238540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That figure is the alleged cost of upgrading the security of these systems after the attack, not the result of any 'damage' that he may have caused. I'm not in any way condoning what he has done and Asperger's is no excuse but the desktops that he accessed were often Internet facing with blank or weak administrator passwords, seems to me like there should be some sysadmins on trial with him for gross negligence.</p><p>My analogy (no car sorry) would be that it's like a robbed bank having to spend $700,000 on a vault after realising that keeping the money in wooden boxes in the back yard is inadequate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That figure is the alleged cost of upgrading the security of these systems after the attack , not the result of any 'damage ' that he may have caused .
I 'm not in any way condoning what he has done and Asperger 's is no excuse but the desktops that he accessed were often Internet facing with blank or weak administrator passwords , seems to me like there should be some sysadmins on trial with him for gross negligence.My analogy ( no car sorry ) would be that it 's like a robbed bank having to spend $ 700,000 on a vault after realising that keeping the money in wooden boxes in the back yard is inadequate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That figure is the alleged cost of upgrading the security of these systems after the attack, not the result of any 'damage' that he may have caused.
I'm not in any way condoning what he has done and Asperger's is no excuse but the desktops that he accessed were often Internet facing with blank or weak administrator passwords, seems to me like there should be some sysadmins on trial with him for gross negligence.My analogy (no car sorry) would be that it's like a robbed bank having to spend $700,000 on a vault after realising that keeping the money in wooden boxes in the back yard is inadequate.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240668</id>
	<title>Re:Hypocrisy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259238600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Italians should use some extraordinary rendition on this Brit and then trade him for those CIA guys they convicted.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Italians should use some extraordinary rendition on this Brit and then trade him for those CIA guys they convicted .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Italians should use some extraordinary rendition on this Brit and then trade him for those CIA guys they convicted.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240962</id>
	<title>Was he really looking for ufo stuff or just want t</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259240700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Was he really looking for ufo stuff or just wanted to brag about about getting into US army systems.</p><p>Part of this has to be to so the army does not look that bad and he may even get a deal maybe 10-15 years just to keep this out of court.</p><p>Or did he just find a setup trap that was meant to be that easy to get into like the child porn traps that are out there.</p><p>Was the systems setup that was as no payed for it to be setup right and they wanted to hit what even hacker to foot the bill for it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Was he really looking for ufo stuff or just wanted to brag about about getting into US army systems.Part of this has to be to so the army does not look that bad and he may even get a deal maybe 10-15 years just to keep this out of court.Or did he just find a setup trap that was meant to be that easy to get into like the child porn traps that are out there.Was the systems setup that was as no payed for it to be setup right and they wanted to hit what even hacker to foot the bill for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Was he really looking for ufo stuff or just wanted to brag about about getting into US army systems.Part of this has to be to so the army does not look that bad and he may even get a deal maybe 10-15 years just to keep this out of court.Or did he just find a setup trap that was meant to be that easy to get into like the child porn traps that are out there.Was the systems setup that was as no payed for it to be setup right and they wanted to hit what even hacker to foot the bill for it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_2129212.30240776</parent>
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