<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_11_23_207210</id>
	<title>Obama Kicks Off Massive Science Education Effort</title>
	<author>ScuttleMonkey</author>
	<datestamp>1258966680000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>In a speech at the White House today, President Obama launched a new campaign, "<a href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/11/23/obama-kicks-off-massive-science-education-effort/">Educate to Innovate</a>," designed to get American students fired up about science, technology, engineering, and math (STEM).  The <a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-education-innovate-campaign">full text of the speech</a> is also available on whitehouse.gov. <i>"The new campaign builds on the President's Inaugural Address, which included a vow to put science 'in its rightful place.' One of those rightful places, of course, is the classroom. Yet too often our schools lack support for teachers or the other resources needed to convey the practical utility and remarkable beauty of science and engineering. As a result, students become overwhelmed in their classes and ultimately disengaged. They lose, and our nation loses too.  The partnerships launched today aim to change that. They respond to a challenge made by the President in April, when he spoke at the annual meeting of the National Academy of Sciences and asked the nation's philanthropists, professional and educational societies, corporations, and individuals to collaborate and innovate with the goal of reinvigorating America's STEM educational enterprise. The partnerships announced today &mdash; dramatic commitments in the hundreds of millions of dollars, generated through novel collaborations and creative outreach activities &mdash; are just the first wave of commitments anticipated in response to his call."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>In a speech at the White House today , President Obama launched a new campaign , " Educate to Innovate , " designed to get American students fired up about science , technology , engineering , and math ( STEM ) .
The full text of the speech is also available on whitehouse.gov .
" The new campaign builds on the President 's Inaugural Address , which included a vow to put science 'in its rightful place .
' One of those rightful places , of course , is the classroom .
Yet too often our schools lack support for teachers or the other resources needed to convey the practical utility and remarkable beauty of science and engineering .
As a result , students become overwhelmed in their classes and ultimately disengaged .
They lose , and our nation loses too .
The partnerships launched today aim to change that .
They respond to a challenge made by the President in April , when he spoke at the annual meeting of the National Academy of Sciences and asked the nation 's philanthropists , professional and educational societies , corporations , and individuals to collaborate and innovate with the goal of reinvigorating America 's STEM educational enterprise .
The partnerships announced today    dramatic commitments in the hundreds of millions of dollars , generated through novel collaborations and creative outreach activities    are just the first wave of commitments anticipated in response to his call .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In a speech at the White House today, President Obama launched a new campaign, "Educate to Innovate," designed to get American students fired up about science, technology, engineering, and math (STEM).
The full text of the speech is also available on whitehouse.gov.
"The new campaign builds on the President's Inaugural Address, which included a vow to put science 'in its rightful place.
' One of those rightful places, of course, is the classroom.
Yet too often our schools lack support for teachers or the other resources needed to convey the practical utility and remarkable beauty of science and engineering.
As a result, students become overwhelmed in their classes and ultimately disengaged.
They lose, and our nation loses too.
The partnerships launched today aim to change that.
They respond to a challenge made by the President in April, when he spoke at the annual meeting of the National Academy of Sciences and asked the nation's philanthropists, professional and educational societies, corporations, and individuals to collaborate and innovate with the goal of reinvigorating America's STEM educational enterprise.
The partnerships announced today — dramatic commitments in the hundreds of millions of dollars, generated through novel collaborations and creative outreach activities — are just the first wave of commitments anticipated in response to his call.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208198</id>
	<title>Where's the motivation?</title>
	<author>redshirt</author>
	<datestamp>1258980120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While I concede that schools are generally underfunded, the program is a waste of time and money.  Why?  Because is leaves out the most important factor: motivation.  You can have science programs, science fairs, etc., but without some guiding motivation, it all leads to nowhere.  I like the old saying that "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."  Our problem today is that we can't lead our kids to science.  They just aren't interested.  And you blame them?  The text reads like: Phase 1: put money into schools and partner with corporations, Phase 2:???, Phase 3: We're #1 .</p><p>You can't just tell a kid you need to learn science because it's cool.  You have to present a problem first.  Not some pansy rhetoric about "moving our country from the middle to the top of the pack in science and math."  A real problem.  One that the government is ready to put money into to accomplish a concrete goal.  Like how to detect incoming aircraft without seeing them, split an atom, or getting a man to the moon and safely returning him to the Earth [before the Soviets].  Frankly, WW2 and the Space Program of the 60s is what led the US to being first in math &amp; science.</p><p>If we want to match that level of science, math and engineering, we need to figure out a national goal and put up the $50 billion to really solve problems that require new kinds of sciences.  I don't know what those problems are, maybe fusion power (I've always been told it's fifty years away), or machines that remove excess CO2 from the atmosphere, or clean the oceans.</p><p>It comes down to this: If the government won't get serious and really invest in math &amp; science, why should kids?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While I concede that schools are generally underfunded , the program is a waste of time and money .
Why ? Because is leaves out the most important factor : motivation .
You can have science programs , science fairs , etc. , but without some guiding motivation , it all leads to nowhere .
I like the old saying that " You can lead a horse to water , but you ca n't make him drink .
" Our problem today is that we ca n't lead our kids to science .
They just are n't interested .
And you blame them ?
The text reads like : Phase 1 : put money into schools and partner with corporations , Phase 2 : ? ?
? , Phase 3 : We 're # 1 .You ca n't just tell a kid you need to learn science because it 's cool .
You have to present a problem first .
Not some pansy rhetoric about " moving our country from the middle to the top of the pack in science and math .
" A real problem .
One that the government is ready to put money into to accomplish a concrete goal .
Like how to detect incoming aircraft without seeing them , split an atom , or getting a man to the moon and safely returning him to the Earth [ before the Soviets ] .
Frankly , WW2 and the Space Program of the 60s is what led the US to being first in math &amp; science.If we want to match that level of science , math and engineering , we need to figure out a national goal and put up the $ 50 billion to really solve problems that require new kinds of sciences .
I do n't know what those problems are , maybe fusion power ( I 've always been told it 's fifty years away ) , or machines that remove excess CO2 from the atmosphere , or clean the oceans.It comes down to this : If the government wo n't get serious and really invest in math &amp; science , why should kids ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While I concede that schools are generally underfunded, the program is a waste of time and money.
Why?  Because is leaves out the most important factor: motivation.
You can have science programs, science fairs, etc., but without some guiding motivation, it all leads to nowhere.
I like the old saying that "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
"  Our problem today is that we can't lead our kids to science.
They just aren't interested.
And you blame them?
The text reads like: Phase 1: put money into schools and partner with corporations, Phase 2:??
?, Phase 3: We're #1 .You can't just tell a kid you need to learn science because it's cool.
You have to present a problem first.
Not some pansy rhetoric about "moving our country from the middle to the top of the pack in science and math.
"  A real problem.
One that the government is ready to put money into to accomplish a concrete goal.
Like how to detect incoming aircraft without seeing them, split an atom, or getting a man to the moon and safely returning him to the Earth [before the Soviets].
Frankly, WW2 and the Space Program of the 60s is what led the US to being first in math &amp; science.If we want to match that level of science, math and engineering, we need to figure out a national goal and put up the $50 billion to really solve problems that require new kinds of sciences.
I don't know what those problems are, maybe fusion power (I've always been told it's fifty years away), or machines that remove excess CO2 from the atmosphere, or clean the oceans.It comes down to this: If the government won't get serious and really invest in math &amp; science, why should kids?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207372</id>
	<title>Asia Cultural Difference</title>
	<author>Tablizer</author>
	<datestamp>1258976520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not to mention the fact that in Asia, "big name" degrees carry nearly automatic <b>social status</b> that opens doors there. This comes from a long tradition in Asia of elevating the status of formally learned individuals to almost deity levels. It is almost a <b>social tenure</b>.</p><p>US companies, on the other hand, view productivity, or at least what managers view as "productivity", more important than degree level. They'll happily toss out a Masters if they see a Bachelors producing more. The advantages of advanced knowledge may not be so readily visible to managers, or may not appear soon enough to make the bean-counters happy. Thus, they don't value it nearly as much as Asian companies.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not to mention the fact that in Asia , " big name " degrees carry nearly automatic social status that opens doors there .
This comes from a long tradition in Asia of elevating the status of formally learned individuals to almost deity levels .
It is almost a social tenure.US companies , on the other hand , view productivity , or at least what managers view as " productivity " , more important than degree level .
They 'll happily toss out a Masters if they see a Bachelors producing more .
The advantages of advanced knowledge may not be so readily visible to managers , or may not appear soon enough to make the bean-counters happy .
Thus , they do n't value it nearly as much as Asian companies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not to mention the fact that in Asia, "big name" degrees carry nearly automatic social status that opens doors there.
This comes from a long tradition in Asia of elevating the status of formally learned individuals to almost deity levels.
It is almost a social tenure.US companies, on the other hand, view productivity, or at least what managers view as "productivity", more important than degree level.
They'll happily toss out a Masters if they see a Bachelors producing more.
The advantages of advanced knowledge may not be so readily visible to managers, or may not appear soon enough to make the bean-counters happy.
Thus, they don't value it nearly as much as Asian companies.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205988</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205988</id>
	<title>fired up, huh?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258970940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>...designed to get American students fired up about science, technology, engineering, and math (STEM).</p></div><p>No offense, Mr. President, but you want to know what really gets us fired up about those things? <i>Getting paid for it.</i> There are a select few of us that are willing to work for peanuts making the world a better place, spending hours working intractable problems, and sacrificing our social and sex lives all for the sake of The Greater Good. The rest of us -- we want to be paid for our work. The work isn't glamorous -- it's demanding, thankless, and for most requires an expensive education that they aren't reimbursed for. This field in particular (information technology) was gutted about seven years ago under the last administration in the name of short term profits. There is no R&amp;D budget left for innovation, and not much has happened that's revolutionary in this industry since the bubble burst.</p><p>If you want to showcase our science and technology, start by making this country the best place to be for it once again -- rather than watching as Europe turns on the LHC while ours sits half-finished in Texas. Send some money to the Department of Energy to fund some physics over here. Give some grant money out so we can deploy a successor to the internet that doesn't suck, controlled by private interests who only want to sell us viagra, cheap thrills, pay per view, and piss-poor last mile connections. Put us back in space, which was once a source of national pride and now languishes as an embarassment. And cancel <i>Enterprise</i> -- goddamn that show sucks!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...designed to get American students fired up about science , technology , engineering , and math ( STEM ) .No offense , Mr. President , but you want to know what really gets us fired up about those things ?
Getting paid for it .
There are a select few of us that are willing to work for peanuts making the world a better place , spending hours working intractable problems , and sacrificing our social and sex lives all for the sake of The Greater Good .
The rest of us -- we want to be paid for our work .
The work is n't glamorous -- it 's demanding , thankless , and for most requires an expensive education that they are n't reimbursed for .
This field in particular ( information technology ) was gutted about seven years ago under the last administration in the name of short term profits .
There is no R&amp;D budget left for innovation , and not much has happened that 's revolutionary in this industry since the bubble burst.If you want to showcase our science and technology , start by making this country the best place to be for it once again -- rather than watching as Europe turns on the LHC while ours sits half-finished in Texas .
Send some money to the Department of Energy to fund some physics over here .
Give some grant money out so we can deploy a successor to the internet that does n't suck , controlled by private interests who only want to sell us viagra , cheap thrills , pay per view , and piss-poor last mile connections .
Put us back in space , which was once a source of national pride and now languishes as an embarassment .
And cancel Enterprise -- goddamn that show sucks !</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ...designed to get American students fired up about science, technology, engineering, and math (STEM).No offense, Mr. President, but you want to know what really gets us fired up about those things?
Getting paid for it.
There are a select few of us that are willing to work for peanuts making the world a better place, spending hours working intractable problems, and sacrificing our social and sex lives all for the sake of The Greater Good.
The rest of us -- we want to be paid for our work.
The work isn't glamorous -- it's demanding, thankless, and for most requires an expensive education that they aren't reimbursed for.
This field in particular (information technology) was gutted about seven years ago under the last administration in the name of short term profits.
There is no R&amp;D budget left for innovation, and not much has happened that's revolutionary in this industry since the bubble burst.If you want to showcase our science and technology, start by making this country the best place to be for it once again -- rather than watching as Europe turns on the LHC while ours sits half-finished in Texas.
Send some money to the Department of Energy to fund some physics over here.
Give some grant money out so we can deploy a successor to the internet that doesn't suck, controlled by private interests who only want to sell us viagra, cheap thrills, pay per view, and piss-poor last mile connections.
Put us back in space, which was once a source of national pride and now languishes as an embarassment.
And cancel Enterprise -- goddamn that show sucks!
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208530</id>
	<title>Re:bucks</title>
	<author>Eli Gottlieb</author>
	<datestamp>1258982040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>IMO, I don't see how anyone could complain too much about getting $25k a year for doing something you presumably love doing and not having to do anything else (like "work" for your living. I work for my living and do what I *love* doing in the evening in my "free" time. I make more than $25k a year, of course, but I have to pay for room, board, and my hobby, too).</p></div><p>Right then, give those "hobbyist" grad students and postdocs their 60-80 hours/week back so they can go work for a living.  Oh, wait...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>IMO , I do n't see how anyone could complain too much about getting $ 25k a year for doing something you presumably love doing and not having to do anything else ( like " work " for your living .
I work for my living and do what I * love * doing in the evening in my " free " time .
I make more than $ 25k a year , of course , but I have to pay for room , board , and my hobby , too ) .Right then , give those " hobbyist " grad students and postdocs their 60-80 hours/week back so they can go work for a living .
Oh , wait.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IMO, I don't see how anyone could complain too much about getting $25k a year for doing something you presumably love doing and not having to do anything else (like "work" for your living.
I work for my living and do what I *love* doing in the evening in my "free" time.
I make more than $25k a year, of course, but I have to pay for room, board, and my hobby, too).Right then, give those "hobbyist" grad students and postdocs their 60-80 hours/week back so they can go work for a living.
Oh, wait...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206424</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206948</id>
	<title>Re:fired up, huh?</title>
	<author>fermion</author>
	<datestamp>1258974960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>One way to make science pay more, is to make non productive jobs pay less.  For instance, a person who figures out who to take a 1 cent cut of some item that is transacted 1 million times a day is going to make over 2 million dollars for year, for doing nothing more than being annoying.  These are the people who are making money.  Not the people who create value, but those middle workers.
<p>
In fact most scientists make ok money.  The only reason that it does not look like it is there are a few people with little ethics that huge amounts of money, and these people often have no education beyond a bought and paid for MBA, which is nothing in comparison to a PhD.
</p><p>
The other issue are those scientist that are trained in fields that do not have work.  I know a number of people that have been in this position.  The only way to save them is to specifically have positions set aside for people who have degrees that are currently out of fashion.  I don't know how to do this without encouraging people to get degrees that are out of fashion, but I don't see that as a problem.  After all, we have farm subsidies that pay people to grow nothing, so why can't we have similar science subsidies.
</p><p>
Another issue, which has been raised recently, is that we have a good pipeline of scientist up to the college level when they leave.  Certainly some leave because they are not going to be able to get a good job, but many more leave because they don't want to do the work.  And this should be our message to the president.  People who do not work, just collect a pay check, should not be paid large sums of money
</p><p>
For instance under the current stimulus bill, unemployment benefits and even health care are being paid for people who are not working. This is a good thing for those who would otherwise starve, but how does this help.  We are paying a middle manager until a firm has enough money to waste on another useless middle manager.  We are paying the buggy whip worker money until the buggy whip factory goes back into production. Why not pay them to go to school and get a rigorous degree instead?  Don't have a job, enroll in a real four year college and get unemployment benefits.  Why not?  It is better than paying people to sit on the sofa and watch Fox News, blaming all their problems not on lack of will, but on those people who took our jobs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One way to make science pay more , is to make non productive jobs pay less .
For instance , a person who figures out who to take a 1 cent cut of some item that is transacted 1 million times a day is going to make over 2 million dollars for year , for doing nothing more than being annoying .
These are the people who are making money .
Not the people who create value , but those middle workers .
In fact most scientists make ok money .
The only reason that it does not look like it is there are a few people with little ethics that huge amounts of money , and these people often have no education beyond a bought and paid for MBA , which is nothing in comparison to a PhD .
The other issue are those scientist that are trained in fields that do not have work .
I know a number of people that have been in this position .
The only way to save them is to specifically have positions set aside for people who have degrees that are currently out of fashion .
I do n't know how to do this without encouraging people to get degrees that are out of fashion , but I do n't see that as a problem .
After all , we have farm subsidies that pay people to grow nothing , so why ca n't we have similar science subsidies .
Another issue , which has been raised recently , is that we have a good pipeline of scientist up to the college level when they leave .
Certainly some leave because they are not going to be able to get a good job , but many more leave because they do n't want to do the work .
And this should be our message to the president .
People who do not work , just collect a pay check , should not be paid large sums of money For instance under the current stimulus bill , unemployment benefits and even health care are being paid for people who are not working .
This is a good thing for those who would otherwise starve , but how does this help .
We are paying a middle manager until a firm has enough money to waste on another useless middle manager .
We are paying the buggy whip worker money until the buggy whip factory goes back into production .
Why not pay them to go to school and get a rigorous degree instead ?
Do n't have a job , enroll in a real four year college and get unemployment benefits .
Why not ?
It is better than paying people to sit on the sofa and watch Fox News , blaming all their problems not on lack of will , but on those people who took our jobs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One way to make science pay more, is to make non productive jobs pay less.
For instance, a person who figures out who to take a 1 cent cut of some item that is transacted 1 million times a day is going to make over 2 million dollars for year, for doing nothing more than being annoying.
These are the people who are making money.
Not the people who create value, but those middle workers.
In fact most scientists make ok money.
The only reason that it does not look like it is there are a few people with little ethics that huge amounts of money, and these people often have no education beyond a bought and paid for MBA, which is nothing in comparison to a PhD.
The other issue are those scientist that are trained in fields that do not have work.
I know a number of people that have been in this position.
The only way to save them is to specifically have positions set aside for people who have degrees that are currently out of fashion.
I don't know how to do this without encouraging people to get degrees that are out of fashion, but I don't see that as a problem.
After all, we have farm subsidies that pay people to grow nothing, so why can't we have similar science subsidies.
Another issue, which has been raised recently, is that we have a good pipeline of scientist up to the college level when they leave.
Certainly some leave because they are not going to be able to get a good job, but many more leave because they don't want to do the work.
And this should be our message to the president.
People who do not work, just collect a pay check, should not be paid large sums of money

For instance under the current stimulus bill, unemployment benefits and even health care are being paid for people who are not working.
This is a good thing for those who would otherwise starve, but how does this help.
We are paying a middle manager until a firm has enough money to waste on another useless middle manager.
We are paying the buggy whip worker money until the buggy whip factory goes back into production.
Why not pay them to go to school and get a rigorous degree instead?
Don't have a job, enroll in a real four year college and get unemployment benefits.
Why not?
It is better than paying people to sit on the sofa and watch Fox News, blaming all their problems not on lack of will, but on those people who took our jobs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205988</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208304</id>
	<title>Re:soundbite lessons as PSAs</title>
	<author>Ozlanthos</author>
	<datestamp>1258980780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>But those are all "constructive" investments.....sorry guy, we don't do that here (anymore). Now get out of the way kid, you're blocking Sponge Bob!
<p>
-Oz</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But those are all " constructive " investments.....sorry guy , we do n't do that here ( anymore ) .
Now get out of the way kid , you 're blocking Sponge Bob !
-Oz</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But those are all "constructive" investments.....sorry guy, we don't do that here (anymore).
Now get out of the way kid, you're blocking Sponge Bob!
-Oz</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206040</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206718</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>Grishnakh</author>
	<datestamp>1258973940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Except for the wasting boatloads of cash part - I'd say that's a good thing. Because that means the kids that grow up to be scientists do so because they want to be scientists rather than because it is cool. Real science is hard, dull, and painfully boring detail work - except to those with an interest in and a passion for it.</i></p><p><i>Science and society are much better off if we filter out those who can't hack it as early as possible.</i></p><p>The problem is that engineering, just like science, is also hard, dull, and painfully boring detail work.  But engineering actually nets you a very good paycheck ($80k+ is pretty normal these days), whereas most science positions will leave you eating Ramen noodles ($30k is pretty normal I believe).  So most people interested in science end up crossing over into engineering so they can make a decent living while still doing something they mostly enjoy and are good at.  So we get a few more engineers writing Verilog code or whatever, but we don't have anyone pushing the limits of human knowledge to make discoveries needed for new technologies, and instead, people in other countries like China do this and reap the economic benefits of it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Except for the wasting boatloads of cash part - I 'd say that 's a good thing .
Because that means the kids that grow up to be scientists do so because they want to be scientists rather than because it is cool .
Real science is hard , dull , and painfully boring detail work - except to those with an interest in and a passion for it.Science and society are much better off if we filter out those who ca n't hack it as early as possible.The problem is that engineering , just like science , is also hard , dull , and painfully boring detail work .
But engineering actually nets you a very good paycheck ( $ 80k + is pretty normal these days ) , whereas most science positions will leave you eating Ramen noodles ( $ 30k is pretty normal I believe ) .
So most people interested in science end up crossing over into engineering so they can make a decent living while still doing something they mostly enjoy and are good at .
So we get a few more engineers writing Verilog code or whatever , but we do n't have anyone pushing the limits of human knowledge to make discoveries needed for new technologies , and instead , people in other countries like China do this and reap the economic benefits of it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except for the wasting boatloads of cash part - I'd say that's a good thing.
Because that means the kids that grow up to be scientists do so because they want to be scientists rather than because it is cool.
Real science is hard, dull, and painfully boring detail work - except to those with an interest in and a passion for it.Science and society are much better off if we filter out those who can't hack it as early as possible.The problem is that engineering, just like science, is also hard, dull, and painfully boring detail work.
But engineering actually nets you a very good paycheck ($80k+ is pretty normal these days), whereas most science positions will leave you eating Ramen noodles ($30k is pretty normal I believe).
So most people interested in science end up crossing over into engineering so they can make a decent living while still doing something they mostly enjoy and are good at.
So we get a few more engineers writing Verilog code or whatever, but we don't have anyone pushing the limits of human knowledge to make discoveries needed for new technologies, and instead, people in other countries like China do this and reap the economic benefits of it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206258</id>
	<title>Fix another problem first</title>
	<author>Yvan256</author>
	<datestamp>1258972080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Get rid of non-physical patents. Software, business models, etc, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Get rid of non-physical patents .
Software , business models , etc , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get rid of non-physical patents.
Software, business models, etc, etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206074</id>
	<title>Practical utility and remarkable beauty</title>
	<author>zapakh</author>
	<datestamp>1258971300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Yet too often our schools lack support for teachers or the other resources needed to convey the practical utility and remarkable beauty of science and engineering.</p></div><p>This looks like a job for...<a href="http://xkcd.com/663" title="xkcd.com" rel="nofollow">Sagan-Man</a> [xkcd.com]!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yet too often our schools lack support for teachers or the other resources needed to convey the practical utility and remarkable beauty of science and engineering.This looks like a job for...Sagan-Man [ xkcd.com ] !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yet too often our schools lack support for teachers or the other resources needed to convey the practical utility and remarkable beauty of science and engineering.This looks like a job for...Sagan-Man [xkcd.com]!
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207460</id>
	<title>Re:If you pay them, they will come.</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1258976820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Science is hard. Degrees are expensive in the U.S.</p></div><p>One obvious way to fix this, then, is to provide free high education for gifted children, so that they don't end up with a huge debt immediately after graduation.</p><p>Note, this isn't the same as universal education. And by "gifted" I mean those who are really bright and willing to learn and work hard - make the exams to get this kind of funding really, really challenging. U.S. is a large country in terms of population, so even with high demands, you'll get quite a few in - and those will form your scientific elite. Adjust the difficulty as needed if you end up with too few or too many.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Science is hard .
Degrees are expensive in the U.S.One obvious way to fix this , then , is to provide free high education for gifted children , so that they do n't end up with a huge debt immediately after graduation.Note , this is n't the same as universal education .
And by " gifted " I mean those who are really bright and willing to learn and work hard - make the exams to get this kind of funding really , really challenging .
U.S. is a large country in terms of population , so even with high demands , you 'll get quite a few in - and those will form your scientific elite .
Adjust the difficulty as needed if you end up with too few or too many .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Science is hard.
Degrees are expensive in the U.S.One obvious way to fix this, then, is to provide free high education for gifted children, so that they don't end up with a huge debt immediately after graduation.Note, this isn't the same as universal education.
And by "gifted" I mean those who are really bright and willing to learn and work hard - make the exams to get this kind of funding really, really challenging.
U.S. is a large country in terms of population, so even with high demands, you'll get quite a few in - and those will form your scientific elite.
Adjust the difficulty as needed if you end up with too few or too many.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206262</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206060</id>
	<title>Parents . . .</title>
	<author>PolygamousRanchKid </author>
	<datestamp>1258971240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Parents, parents, parents.
</p><p>They are in the best position (or should be!) to motivate their kids.  If they can't, no billion dollar program will either.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Parents , parents , parents .
They are in the best position ( or should be !
) to motivate their kids .
If they ca n't , no billion dollar program will either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Parents, parents, parents.
They are in the best position (or should be!
) to motivate their kids.
If they can't, no billion dollar program will either.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207004</id>
	<title>Re:fired up, huh?</title>
	<author>MaggieL</author>
	<datestamp>1258975200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When did we get to the point where you expect to be "reimbursed" for your education?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When did we get to the point where you expect to be " reimbursed " for your education ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When did we get to the point where you expect to be "reimbursed" for your education?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205988</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206028</id>
	<title>How about just paying a decent wage?</title>
	<author>Colin Smith</author>
	<datestamp>1258971120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Y'know might make some people feel more appreciated.</p><p>Science positions in general pay pathetically.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Y'know might make some people feel more appreciated.Science positions in general pay pathetically .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>Y'know might make some people feel more appreciated.Science positions in general pay pathetically.
 </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206014</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>negRo\_slim</author>
	<datestamp>1258971060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Instead we will waste another $huge\_amount dollars on some lame education effort only to have the kids still want to be Buck Rogers, or John Wayne.</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Instead we will waste another $ huge \ _amount dollars on some lame education effort only to have the kids still want to be Buck Rogers , or John Wayne .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Instead we will waste another $huge\_amount dollars on some lame education effort only to have the kids still want to be Buck Rogers, or John Wayne.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205940</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207888</id>
	<title>METS not STEM</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258978620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Math comes first</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Math comes first</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Math comes first</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206080</id>
	<title>Government intrusion and control isn't innovative</title>
	<author>MSTCrow5429</author>
	<datestamp>1258971360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>More top down central planning of the government schools isn't going to lead to more productive outcomes.  Science isn't a rigid, unchanging system that can be taught as dogma.  Instead of throwing another stifling straitjacket onto the failed government schools, he might emulate the diverse and decentralized environment of scientific achievement, and allow competition with government schools, and competing curricula that will over time lead to increasingly more beneficial outcomes.</htmltext>
<tokenext>More top down central planning of the government schools is n't going to lead to more productive outcomes .
Science is n't a rigid , unchanging system that can be taught as dogma .
Instead of throwing another stifling straitjacket onto the failed government schools , he might emulate the diverse and decentralized environment of scientific achievement , and allow competition with government schools , and competing curricula that will over time lead to increasingly more beneficial outcomes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>More top down central planning of the government schools isn't going to lead to more productive outcomes.
Science isn't a rigid, unchanging system that can be taught as dogma.
Instead of throwing another stifling straitjacket onto the failed government schools, he might emulate the diverse and decentralized environment of scientific achievement, and allow competition with government schools, and competing curricula that will over time lead to increasingly more beneficial outcomes.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208380</id>
	<title>Re:bucks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258981140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Red Theory" and nerd dreams. Why pay more, what else are they gonna' do? Ph.D's with quickie mart jobs? Unionism and the brotherhood of faithful and employed hacks versus the skilled and unemployed brain trust. Go along or get lost. I have always marveled at workers that assume they are turnkey, many never have their bubble burst! Too much Ashton Kutcher for you. Is it Trump's comb over that bags-em? George Burns' cigar?...UAW and Detroit-City get out the vote! All a coal miner ever owned was a grave.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Red Theory " and nerd dreams .
Why pay more , what else are they gon na ' do ?
Ph.D 's with quickie mart jobs ?
Unionism and the brotherhood of faithful and employed hacks versus the skilled and unemployed brain trust .
Go along or get lost .
I have always marveled at workers that assume they are turnkey , many never have their bubble burst !
Too much Ashton Kutcher for you .
Is it Trump 's comb over that bags-em ?
George Burns ' cigar ? ...UAW and Detroit-City get out the vote !
All a coal miner ever owned was a grave .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Red Theory" and nerd dreams.
Why pay more, what else are they gonna' do?
Ph.D's with quickie mart jobs?
Unionism and the brotherhood of faithful and employed hacks versus the skilled and unemployed brain trust.
Go along or get lost.
I have always marveled at workers that assume they are turnkey, many never have their bubble burst!
Too much Ashton Kutcher for you.
Is it Trump's comb over that bags-em?
George Burns' cigar?...UAW and Detroit-City get out the vote!
All a coal miner ever owned was a grave.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206812</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206394</id>
	<title>The Education Silver Bullet</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258972680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The silver bullet for education is very simple: Fix society. There's nothing inherently wrong with our schools. The problem is that schools are nothing but a microcosm of our society. We think that because schools are full of kids we have some special control over them, but that's generally not true. Kids learn what to value first from their parents, second from their role models (which are usually popular media figures), third from their peers, and only then from teachers. It's even worse when you think you can control teenagers who are <em>not children</em>.</p><p>Parents that do not value education produce kids that do not value educations. Parents with no ambitions produce kids with no ambitions. A society that values fame and fortune over science and progress produces kids that value fame and fortune over science and progress.</p><p>Quite simply, sick schools are a symptom of the real disease, a sick society. Of course few want to admit our society is sick, and even fewer want to make an effort to fix it. They'd rather just pretend that there's a magic trick to turning blank children (who aren't really blank) into perfect adults. Well sorry adults, but a) kids will turn out fine without you trying to "fix" them, and b) <em>YOU</em> are the real problem. We have to do what we want kids to do: We have to take responsibility and try to fix things instead of pushing problems onto somebody else, i.e. another generation.</p><p>Fix society, and you fix schools. It's that simple. Fixing society isn't that simple? Tough. Either do it or stop complaining about schools.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The silver bullet for education is very simple : Fix society .
There 's nothing inherently wrong with our schools .
The problem is that schools are nothing but a microcosm of our society .
We think that because schools are full of kids we have some special control over them , but that 's generally not true .
Kids learn what to value first from their parents , second from their role models ( which are usually popular media figures ) , third from their peers , and only then from teachers .
It 's even worse when you think you can control teenagers who are not children.Parents that do not value education produce kids that do not value educations .
Parents with no ambitions produce kids with no ambitions .
A society that values fame and fortune over science and progress produces kids that value fame and fortune over science and progress.Quite simply , sick schools are a symptom of the real disease , a sick society .
Of course few want to admit our society is sick , and even fewer want to make an effort to fix it .
They 'd rather just pretend that there 's a magic trick to turning blank children ( who are n't really blank ) into perfect adults .
Well sorry adults , but a ) kids will turn out fine without you trying to " fix " them , and b ) YOU are the real problem .
We have to do what we want kids to do : We have to take responsibility and try to fix things instead of pushing problems onto somebody else , i.e .
another generation.Fix society , and you fix schools .
It 's that simple .
Fixing society is n't that simple ?
Tough. Either do it or stop complaining about schools .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The silver bullet for education is very simple: Fix society.
There's nothing inherently wrong with our schools.
The problem is that schools are nothing but a microcosm of our society.
We think that because schools are full of kids we have some special control over them, but that's generally not true.
Kids learn what to value first from their parents, second from their role models (which are usually popular media figures), third from their peers, and only then from teachers.
It's even worse when you think you can control teenagers who are not children.Parents that do not value education produce kids that do not value educations.
Parents with no ambitions produce kids with no ambitions.
A society that values fame and fortune over science and progress produces kids that value fame and fortune over science and progress.Quite simply, sick schools are a symptom of the real disease, a sick society.
Of course few want to admit our society is sick, and even fewer want to make an effort to fix it.
They'd rather just pretend that there's a magic trick to turning blank children (who aren't really blank) into perfect adults.
Well sorry adults, but a) kids will turn out fine without you trying to "fix" them, and b) YOU are the real problem.
We have to do what we want kids to do: We have to take responsibility and try to fix things instead of pushing problems onto somebody else, i.e.
another generation.Fix society, and you fix schools.
It's that simple.
Fixing society isn't that simple?
Tough. Either do it or stop complaining about schools.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206170</id>
	<title>Fantasy trumps science (almost) every time</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258971660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As long as children are inundated with religion and fantasy crap from birth, throwing more money at science education programs doesn't accomplish anything at all.  The only children who will emerge as scientists are the ones who were neurologically immune to all the delusional crap in the first place... meaning children who are "disordered" in some way like Asperger's Syndrome.  Neurotypical children will get sucked down the Rabbit Hole of fantasy, religion, and self-delusion and never return to the physical world in which they were born.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As long as children are inundated with religion and fantasy crap from birth , throwing more money at science education programs does n't accomplish anything at all .
The only children who will emerge as scientists are the ones who were neurologically immune to all the delusional crap in the first place... meaning children who are " disordered " in some way like Asperger 's Syndrome .
Neurotypical children will get sucked down the Rabbit Hole of fantasy , religion , and self-delusion and never return to the physical world in which they were born .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As long as children are inundated with religion and fantasy crap from birth, throwing more money at science education programs doesn't accomplish anything at all.
The only children who will emerge as scientists are the ones who were neurologically immune to all the delusional crap in the first place... meaning children who are "disordered" in some way like Asperger's Syndrome.
Neurotypical children will get sucked down the Rabbit Hole of fantasy, religion, and self-delusion and never return to the physical world in which they were born.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207538</id>
	<title>Re:Not without the parents</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258977120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Unless the proposal includes some tactics for getting the parents involvement, it'll be doomed before it starts.</i></p><p>What if we use actual fire? A couple of ignorant fatties get the bacon treatment, and the rest will quickly (and fearfully!) turn to their science textbooks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless the proposal includes some tactics for getting the parents involvement , it 'll be doomed before it starts.What if we use actual fire ?
A couple of ignorant fatties get the bacon treatment , and the rest will quickly ( and fearfully !
) turn to their science textbooks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unless the proposal includes some tactics for getting the parents involvement, it'll be doomed before it starts.What if we use actual fire?
A couple of ignorant fatties get the bacon treatment, and the rest will quickly (and fearfully!
) turn to their science textbooks.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206052</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208502</id>
	<title>Re:Parents . . .</title>
	<author>Ozlanthos</author>
	<datestamp>1258981800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
I have always felt that we could do a lot if we forced all families to have at least one parent at home with the kids (at least until they are in their late teens). I don't give a damn whether it is the father or mother, but kids do need their parents (no matter how much your boss thinks otherwise). The fact is that at one time what made up "communities" were  mothers hanging out together while their husbands were at work. They planned and arranged community gatherings/events. They petitioned their mayors, governors, congressmen, and senators concerning public policy.
</p><p>
I think a return to that model of community would be a good thing. It would free up jobs, decrease street crime dramatically,  get our neighborhoods cleaner, raise the average intelligence of our children, and bring back a deeper connection to the people you live around.
</p><p>
-Oz</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have always felt that we could do a lot if we forced all families to have at least one parent at home with the kids ( at least until they are in their late teens ) .
I do n't give a damn whether it is the father or mother , but kids do need their parents ( no matter how much your boss thinks otherwise ) .
The fact is that at one time what made up " communities " were mothers hanging out together while their husbands were at work .
They planned and arranged community gatherings/events .
They petitioned their mayors , governors , congressmen , and senators concerning public policy .
I think a return to that model of community would be a good thing .
It would free up jobs , decrease street crime dramatically , get our neighborhoods cleaner , raise the average intelligence of our children , and bring back a deeper connection to the people you live around .
-Oz</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
I have always felt that we could do a lot if we forced all families to have at least one parent at home with the kids (at least until they are in their late teens).
I don't give a damn whether it is the father or mother, but kids do need their parents (no matter how much your boss thinks otherwise).
The fact is that at one time what made up "communities" were  mothers hanging out together while their husbands were at work.
They planned and arranged community gatherings/events.
They petitioned their mayors, governors, congressmen, and senators concerning public policy.
I think a return to that model of community would be a good thing.
It would free up jobs, decrease street crime dramatically,  get our neighborhoods cleaner, raise the average intelligence of our children, and bring back a deeper connection to the people you live around.
-Oz</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206060</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30210098</id>
	<title>How about a massive push for edu in Math</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258996920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Send some money to the Department of Energy<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... Give some grant money out so<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... Put us back in space....</p></div><p>I've got an idea.  Teach Americans math first.  For instance, how much is $12,000,000,000,000?  Yes, that's your national debt.  You want to go back into space?  Print enough $1 bills to pay your country's debt, then stack them before you pay your debtors. It will reach the moon three times.  How's that for an education?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Send some money to the Department of Energy ... Give some grant money out so .... Put us back in space....I 've got an idea .
Teach Americans math first .
For instance , how much is $ 12,000,000,000,000 ?
Yes , that 's your national debt .
You want to go back into space ?
Print enough $ 1 bills to pay your country 's debt , then stack them before you pay your debtors .
It will reach the moon three times .
How 's that for an education ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Send some money to the Department of Energy ... Give some grant money out so .... Put us back in space....I've got an idea.
Teach Americans math first.
For instance, how much is $12,000,000,000,000?
Yes, that's your national debt.
You want to go back into space?
Print enough $1 bills to pay your country's debt, then stack them before you pay your debtors.
It will reach the moon three times.
How's that for an education?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205988</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207580</id>
	<title>Re:bucks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258977240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your wife must really be a thankless bitch.</p><p>I'm going to take a wild guess and suggest that the GP doesn't pursue golddigging bimbos whose sole goal in life is to pop out little shit factories.</p><p>So your counterargument is pretty much irrelevant.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your wife must really be a thankless bitch.I 'm going to take a wild guess and suggest that the GP does n't pursue golddigging bimbos whose sole goal in life is to pop out little shit factories.So your counterargument is pretty much irrelevant .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your wife must really be a thankless bitch.I'm going to take a wild guess and suggest that the GP doesn't pursue golddigging bimbos whose sole goal in life is to pop out little shit factories.So your counterargument is pretty much irrelevant.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206812</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206838</id>
	<title>Re:soundbite lessons as PSAs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258974540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wish you were the President now</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wish you were the President now</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wish you were the President now</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206040</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206812</id>
	<title>Re:bucks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258974420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When you're really young, you might think that doing something you like and getting enough money to pay for a small apartment and some Ramen noodles is a good deal.  However, when you get a little older, you realize there's more to life than work.  Many people like the idea of dating and getting married.  Many of those like the idea of also having children.</p><p>No decent woman is going to marry you if you have a job working 100 hours/week (which means you're never home to spend time with her) and only make $25k (which means you can't even support her).  No decent woman will want to have children with you when you're never home, and don't make any money to buy them decent clothes and food, forcing her to apply for welfare.  Dating is a competition with all the other males out there, and not many women are going to choose you when they can get some other guy who makes 3x as much money and who has time to spend helping her raise the kids.</p><p>Asking prospective scientists to give up their chances at marriage and family is beyond insulting.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When you 're really young , you might think that doing something you like and getting enough money to pay for a small apartment and some Ramen noodles is a good deal .
However , when you get a little older , you realize there 's more to life than work .
Many people like the idea of dating and getting married .
Many of those like the idea of also having children.No decent woman is going to marry you if you have a job working 100 hours/week ( which means you 're never home to spend time with her ) and only make $ 25k ( which means you ca n't even support her ) .
No decent woman will want to have children with you when you 're never home , and do n't make any money to buy them decent clothes and food , forcing her to apply for welfare .
Dating is a competition with all the other males out there , and not many women are going to choose you when they can get some other guy who makes 3x as much money and who has time to spend helping her raise the kids.Asking prospective scientists to give up their chances at marriage and family is beyond insulting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you're really young, you might think that doing something you like and getting enough money to pay for a small apartment and some Ramen noodles is a good deal.
However, when you get a little older, you realize there's more to life than work.
Many people like the idea of dating and getting married.
Many of those like the idea of also having children.No decent woman is going to marry you if you have a job working 100 hours/week (which means you're never home to spend time with her) and only make $25k (which means you can't even support her).
No decent woman will want to have children with you when you're never home, and don't make any money to buy them decent clothes and food, forcing her to apply for welfare.
Dating is a competition with all the other males out there, and not many women are going to choose you when they can get some other guy who makes 3x as much money and who has time to spend helping her raise the kids.Asking prospective scientists to give up their chances at marriage and family is beyond insulting.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206424</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206134</id>
	<title>Re:STEM...</title>
	<author>tepples</author>
	<datestamp>1258971540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>still can't compete with PS, Xbox, Wii, DS, etc.</p></div><p>If it were easier for hobbyists to run homemade code on the aforementioned platforms, there might be incentive to teach STEM through gaming. XNA is a start for college, but that still leaves high school because XNA Creators Club members must be 18+.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>still ca n't compete with PS , Xbox , Wii , DS , etc.If it were easier for hobbyists to run homemade code on the aforementioned platforms , there might be incentive to teach STEM through gaming .
XNA is a start for college , but that still leaves high school because XNA Creators Club members must be 18 + .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>still can't compete with PS, Xbox, Wii, DS, etc.If it were easier for hobbyists to run homemade code on the aforementioned platforms, there might be incentive to teach STEM through gaming.
XNA is a start for college, but that still leaves high school because XNA Creators Club members must be 18+.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205906</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207364</id>
	<title>Afro-American Racism Against Whites and Asians</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258976460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>During the election, about 95\% of African-Americans voted for Barack Hussein Obama due solely to the color of his skin.  See the <a href="http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#USP00p1" title="cnn.com" rel="nofollow">exit-polling data</a> [cnn.com] by CNN.
<p>
Note the voting pattern of Hispanics, Asian-Americans, etc.  These non-Black minorities serve as a measurement of African-American racism against Whites (and other non-Black folks).  Neither Barack Hussein Obama nor John McCain is Hispanic or Asian.  So, Hispanics and Asian-Americans used only non-racial criteria in selecting a candidate and, hence, serve as the reference by which we detect a racist voting pattern.  Only about 65\% of Hispanics and Asian-Americans supported Obama.  In other words, a maximum of 65\% support by any ethnic or racial group for <b>either</b> McCain <b>or</b> Obama is not racist and, hence, is acceptable.  (A maximum of 65\% for McCain is okay.  So, European-American support at 55\% for McCain is well below this threshold and, hence, is not racist.)
</p><p>
If African-Americans were not racist, then at most 65\% of them would have supported Obama.  At that level of support, McCain would have won the presidential race.
</p><p>
At this point, African-American supremacists (and apologists) claim that African-Americans voted for Obama because he (1) is a member of the Democratic party and (2) supports its ideals.  That claim is an outright lie.  Look at the <a href="http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/#NCDEM" title="cnn.com" rel="nofollow">exit-polling data</a> [cnn.com] for the Democratic primaries.  Consider the case of North Carolina.  Again, about 95\% of African-Americans voted for him and against Hillary Clinton.  Both Clinton and Obama are Democrats, and their official political positions on the campaign trail were nearly identical.  Yet, 95\% of African-Americans voted for Obama and against Hillary Clinton.  Why?  African-Americans supported Obama due solely to the color of his skin.
</p><p>
Here is the bottom line.  Barack Hussein Obama does not represent mainstream America.  He won the election due to the racist voting pattern exhibited by African-Americans.
</p><p>
African-Americans have established that expressing "racial pride" by voting on the basis of skin color is 100\% acceptable.  Neither the "Wall Street Journal" nor the "New York Times" complained about this racist behavior.  Therefore, in future elections, please feel free to express your racial pride by voting on the basis of skin color.  Feel free to vote for the non-Black candidates and against the Black candidates if you are not African-American.  You need not defend your actions in any way.  Voting on the basis of skin color is quite acceptable by today's moral standard.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>During the election , about 95 \ % of African-Americans voted for Barack Hussein Obama due solely to the color of his skin .
See the exit-polling data [ cnn.com ] by CNN .
Note the voting pattern of Hispanics , Asian-Americans , etc .
These non-Black minorities serve as a measurement of African-American racism against Whites ( and other non-Black folks ) .
Neither Barack Hussein Obama nor John McCain is Hispanic or Asian .
So , Hispanics and Asian-Americans used only non-racial criteria in selecting a candidate and , hence , serve as the reference by which we detect a racist voting pattern .
Only about 65 \ % of Hispanics and Asian-Americans supported Obama .
In other words , a maximum of 65 \ % support by any ethnic or racial group for either McCain or Obama is not racist and , hence , is acceptable .
( A maximum of 65 \ % for McCain is okay .
So , European-American support at 55 \ % for McCain is well below this threshold and , hence , is not racist .
) If African-Americans were not racist , then at most 65 \ % of them would have supported Obama .
At that level of support , McCain would have won the presidential race .
At this point , African-American supremacists ( and apologists ) claim that African-Americans voted for Obama because he ( 1 ) is a member of the Democratic party and ( 2 ) supports its ideals .
That claim is an outright lie .
Look at the exit-polling data [ cnn.com ] for the Democratic primaries .
Consider the case of North Carolina .
Again , about 95 \ % of African-Americans voted for him and against Hillary Clinton .
Both Clinton and Obama are Democrats , and their official political positions on the campaign trail were nearly identical .
Yet , 95 \ % of African-Americans voted for Obama and against Hillary Clinton .
Why ? African-Americans supported Obama due solely to the color of his skin .
Here is the bottom line .
Barack Hussein Obama does not represent mainstream America .
He won the election due to the racist voting pattern exhibited by African-Americans .
African-Americans have established that expressing " racial pride " by voting on the basis of skin color is 100 \ % acceptable .
Neither the " Wall Street Journal " nor the " New York Times " complained about this racist behavior .
Therefore , in future elections , please feel free to express your racial pride by voting on the basis of skin color .
Feel free to vote for the non-Black candidates and against the Black candidates if you are not African-American .
You need not defend your actions in any way .
Voting on the basis of skin color is quite acceptable by today 's moral standard .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>During the election, about 95\% of African-Americans voted for Barack Hussein Obama due solely to the color of his skin.
See the exit-polling data [cnn.com] by CNN.
Note the voting pattern of Hispanics, Asian-Americans, etc.
These non-Black minorities serve as a measurement of African-American racism against Whites (and other non-Black folks).
Neither Barack Hussein Obama nor John McCain is Hispanic or Asian.
So, Hispanics and Asian-Americans used only non-racial criteria in selecting a candidate and, hence, serve as the reference by which we detect a racist voting pattern.
Only about 65\% of Hispanics and Asian-Americans supported Obama.
In other words, a maximum of 65\% support by any ethnic or racial group for either McCain or Obama is not racist and, hence, is acceptable.
(A maximum of 65\% for McCain is okay.
So, European-American support at 55\% for McCain is well below this threshold and, hence, is not racist.
)

If African-Americans were not racist, then at most 65\% of them would have supported Obama.
At that level of support, McCain would have won the presidential race.
At this point, African-American supremacists (and apologists) claim that African-Americans voted for Obama because he (1) is a member of the Democratic party and (2) supports its ideals.
That claim is an outright lie.
Look at the exit-polling data [cnn.com] for the Democratic primaries.
Consider the case of North Carolina.
Again, about 95\% of African-Americans voted for him and against Hillary Clinton.
Both Clinton and Obama are Democrats, and their official political positions on the campaign trail were nearly identical.
Yet, 95\% of African-Americans voted for Obama and against Hillary Clinton.
Why?  African-Americans supported Obama due solely to the color of his skin.
Here is the bottom line.
Barack Hussein Obama does not represent mainstream America.
He won the election due to the racist voting pattern exhibited by African-Americans.
African-Americans have established that expressing "racial pride" by voting on the basis of skin color is 100\% acceptable.
Neither the "Wall Street Journal" nor the "New York Times" complained about this racist behavior.
Therefore, in future elections, please feel free to express your racial pride by voting on the basis of skin color.
Feel free to vote for the non-Black candidates and against the Black candidates if you are not African-American.
You need not defend your actions in any way.
Voting on the basis of skin color is quite acceptable by today's moral standard.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205920</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206570</id>
	<title>Re:fired up, huh?</title>
	<author>shentino</author>
	<datestamp>1258973340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For me personally, it isn't so much getting paid a shitload as a bribe to do good for society, it's about keeping me afloat while I make sacrifices building a foundation for the future.</p><p>It's just like running a business.  Wisely invested capital can make you a superstar, but unless you have short-term flotation you'll go under and your precious investment is either going to get nuked or raided at distress prices.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For me personally , it is n't so much getting paid a shitload as a bribe to do good for society , it 's about keeping me afloat while I make sacrifices building a foundation for the future.It 's just like running a business .
Wisely invested capital can make you a superstar , but unless you have short-term flotation you 'll go under and your precious investment is either going to get nuked or raided at distress prices .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For me personally, it isn't so much getting paid a shitload as a bribe to do good for society, it's about keeping me afloat while I make sacrifices building a foundation for the future.It's just like running a business.
Wisely invested capital can make you a superstar, but unless you have short-term flotation you'll go under and your precious investment is either going to get nuked or raided at distress prices.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205988</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30209564</id>
	<title>Re:stem cells</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258990500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That was funny but I just have to point out that we "right-wingers" are not opposed to using stem cells in research (I have not ever heard or read something written by a conservative opposed to stem cells); what many conservatives object to are embryonic stem cells, which are just one small type of stem cells. Anyway, that's taking the wind out of your joke so I'll stop.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That was funny but I just have to point out that we " right-wingers " are not opposed to using stem cells in research ( I have not ever heard or read something written by a conservative opposed to stem cells ) ; what many conservatives object to are embryonic stem cells , which are just one small type of stem cells .
Anyway , that 's taking the wind out of your joke so I 'll stop .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That was funny but I just have to point out that we "right-wingers" are not opposed to using stem cells in research (I have not ever heard or read something written by a conservative opposed to stem cells); what many conservatives object to are embryonic stem cells, which are just one small type of stem cells.
Anyway, that's taking the wind out of your joke so I'll stop.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206044</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208716</id>
	<title>Re:Translation: Massive Union Vote Buying Program</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258983300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Throw in class sizes over 28. A public school where the unionized teachers'  goal is to seek a plum position that is not in a classroom. Half the certified teachers are not in a classroom, and took few math and science courses, special needs and administrative specialists prevail. Nepotism, so the niece can teach a low intensity science class while more qualified teachers are shuffled out a revolving door. And a seniority system locking out bright young talent. I always smirk when a staff conversation starts with,"I've got 33 years..." The result is usually why 33 years won't get off their fat. But, new staff enter with the same attitude, how do you think 33 got there? Kinda like congress?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Throw in class sizes over 28 .
A public school where the unionized teachers ' goal is to seek a plum position that is not in a classroom .
Half the certified teachers are not in a classroom , and took few math and science courses , special needs and administrative specialists prevail .
Nepotism , so the niece can teach a low intensity science class while more qualified teachers are shuffled out a revolving door .
And a seniority system locking out bright young talent .
I always smirk when a staff conversation starts with , " I 've got 33 years... " The result is usually why 33 years wo n't get off their fat .
But , new staff enter with the same attitude , how do you think 33 got there ?
Kinda like congress ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Throw in class sizes over 28.
A public school where the unionized teachers'  goal is to seek a plum position that is not in a classroom.
Half the certified teachers are not in a classroom, and took few math and science courses, special needs and administrative specialists prevail.
Nepotism, so the niece can teach a low intensity science class while more qualified teachers are shuffled out a revolving door.
And a seniority system locking out bright young talent.
I always smirk when a staff conversation starts with,"I've got 33 years..." The result is usually why 33 years won't get off their fat.
But, new staff enter with the same attitude, how do you think 33 got there?
Kinda like congress?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206366</id>
	<title>Dear Dr. Science:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258972560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Where do Rethuglicans come from?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Where do Rethuglicans come from ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Where do Rethuglicans come from?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206324</id>
	<title>There's still one more chance to be a doctor...</title>
	<author>Tetsujin</author>
	<datestamp>1258972320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>No, but lots of kids do want to be doctors and lawyers. Look at how many TV shows are based around doctors or lawyers.</p></div><p>Yeah!  Like "Doctor Who"!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>No , but lots of kids do want to be doctors and lawyers .
Look at how many TV shows are based around doctors or lawyers.Yeah !
Like " Doctor Who " !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, but lots of kids do want to be doctors and lawyers.
Look at how many TV shows are based around doctors or lawyers.Yeah!
Like "Doctor Who"!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206182</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30209498</id>
	<title>Re:Translation: Massive Union Vote Buying Program</title>
	<author>apoc.famine</author>
	<datestamp>1258989900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And I'll add one follow-up to this post, which got a couple of pretty hostile replies:<br>
&nbsp; <br>It's mostly sense. Yes, as a previous poster noted, it's got some flamebait-like language, but it's not all wrong.<br>
&nbsp; <br>As a kid, my family went on a "Monday Night Walk" during all but the bitterest winter months. We'd drive somewhere, and go explore nature. I'd ask questions. I'd see things I had never seen before. I watched my dad get a massive (I was like 8, so no idea how massive it really was) snapping turtle to bite onto a big branch. He then lifted it out of the water, with it's beak firmly attached to the branch. When he set it down, and we walked back a bit and waited, it finally let go and slipped back into the water. <br>
&nbsp; <br>I had stick collections, rock collections, and whenever I asked my parents "why..", they either had the correct answer, or they said, "I don't know. Let's find out!" We had a house full of books, and hit the library multiple times a week. Until I could read myself to sleep, I was read a story every night.<br>
&nbsp; <br>You are spot on that science comes from the parents. I went on to get a BA in Physics, and am working on a PhD in yet more hard science. In between, I was a programmer and taught high school science. (But teaching didn't let me do enough science, so it was back to school for me.) Two of us three siblings are scientists. The third isn't far off, dealing in IT infrastructure. <br>
&nbsp; <br>Disregard ScentCone's obvious politics, and the heart of the message is true. You can throw all sorts of money at the states, and it won't make any difference. Until we're getting parents to inspire their kids to find out new things, nothing is going to get better.<br>
&nbsp; <br>The problem isn't with teachers or schools. It's with the public perception that science is boring and hard, and that school isn't that important. Fix that, and you fix everything.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And I 'll add one follow-up to this post , which got a couple of pretty hostile replies :   It 's mostly sense .
Yes , as a previous poster noted , it 's got some flamebait-like language , but it 's not all wrong .
  As a kid , my family went on a " Monday Night Walk " during all but the bitterest winter months .
We 'd drive somewhere , and go explore nature .
I 'd ask questions .
I 'd see things I had never seen before .
I watched my dad get a massive ( I was like 8 , so no idea how massive it really was ) snapping turtle to bite onto a big branch .
He then lifted it out of the water , with it 's beak firmly attached to the branch .
When he set it down , and we walked back a bit and waited , it finally let go and slipped back into the water .
  I had stick collections , rock collections , and whenever I asked my parents " why.. " , they either had the correct answer , or they said , " I do n't know .
Let 's find out !
" We had a house full of books , and hit the library multiple times a week .
Until I could read myself to sleep , I was read a story every night .
  You are spot on that science comes from the parents .
I went on to get a BA in Physics , and am working on a PhD in yet more hard science .
In between , I was a programmer and taught high school science .
( But teaching did n't let me do enough science , so it was back to school for me .
) Two of us three siblings are scientists .
The third is n't far off , dealing in IT infrastructure .
  Disregard ScentCone 's obvious politics , and the heart of the message is true .
You can throw all sorts of money at the states , and it wo n't make any difference .
Until we 're getting parents to inspire their kids to find out new things , nothing is going to get better .
  The problem is n't with teachers or schools .
It 's with the public perception that science is boring and hard , and that school is n't that important .
Fix that , and you fix everything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And I'll add one follow-up to this post, which got a couple of pretty hostile replies:
  It's mostly sense.
Yes, as a previous poster noted, it's got some flamebait-like language, but it's not all wrong.
  As a kid, my family went on a "Monday Night Walk" during all but the bitterest winter months.
We'd drive somewhere, and go explore nature.
I'd ask questions.
I'd see things I had never seen before.
I watched my dad get a massive (I was like 8, so no idea how massive it really was) snapping turtle to bite onto a big branch.
He then lifted it out of the water, with it's beak firmly attached to the branch.
When he set it down, and we walked back a bit and waited, it finally let go and slipped back into the water.
  I had stick collections, rock collections, and whenever I asked my parents "why..", they either had the correct answer, or they said, "I don't know.
Let's find out!
" We had a house full of books, and hit the library multiple times a week.
Until I could read myself to sleep, I was read a story every night.
  You are spot on that science comes from the parents.
I went on to get a BA in Physics, and am working on a PhD in yet more hard science.
In between, I was a programmer and taught high school science.
(But teaching didn't let me do enough science, so it was back to school for me.
) Two of us three siblings are scientists.
The third isn't far off, dealing in IT infrastructure.
  Disregard ScentCone's obvious politics, and the heart of the message is true.
You can throw all sorts of money at the states, and it won't make any difference.
Until we're getting parents to inspire their kids to find out new things, nothing is going to get better.
  The problem isn't with teachers or schools.
It's with the public perception that science is boring and hard, and that school isn't that important.
Fix that, and you fix everything.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206946</id>
	<title>It takes a village or 1 private school</title>
	<author>cellurl</author>
	<datestamp>1258974960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Many things in education just won't happen, so I don't fight that. If you are a parent fighting for education, you will give up once your kids leave. Its the half-life of the eduma-fight, about 10 years....
<br> <br>
Here is a picture I drew to explain the
<a href="http://www.gpscruise.com/memphis.png" title="gpscruise.com" rel="nofollow">expense in the system</a> [gpscruise.com] <br> <br>

I taught for a year. That drawing is correct down to the name on the door in Memphis TN, The office reads "Certificated teachers". <br> <br>

Heres my solution and a little background. In Scuba their is NAUI and PADDI. In politics their is Red/Blue. In testing their is the SAT / ACT. <br>
In teacher certification their needs competition, lets call them Scert [state] and Pcert [parent]. I just made that name up, Parent certification is my name.<br> <br>

Competition in certification would bring this lopsided system back in check. <br> <br>

-jim
<a href="http://www.wikispeedia.org/" title="wikispeedia.org" rel="nofollow">Save a life for free.</a> [wikispeedia.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Many things in education just wo n't happen , so I do n't fight that .
If you are a parent fighting for education , you will give up once your kids leave .
Its the half-life of the eduma-fight , about 10 years... . Here is a picture I drew to explain the expense in the system [ gpscruise.com ] I taught for a year .
That drawing is correct down to the name on the door in Memphis TN , The office reads " Certificated teachers " .
Heres my solution and a little background .
In Scuba their is NAUI and PADDI .
In politics their is Red/Blue .
In testing their is the SAT / ACT .
In teacher certification their needs competition , lets call them Scert [ state ] and Pcert [ parent ] .
I just made that name up , Parent certification is my name .
Competition in certification would bring this lopsided system back in check .
-jim Save a life for free .
[ wikispeedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many things in education just won't happen, so I don't fight that.
If you are a parent fighting for education, you will give up once your kids leave.
Its the half-life of the eduma-fight, about 10 years....
 
Here is a picture I drew to explain the
expense in the system [gpscruise.com]  

I taught for a year.
That drawing is correct down to the name on the door in Memphis TN, The office reads "Certificated teachers".
Heres my solution and a little background.
In Scuba their is NAUI and PADDI.
In politics their is Red/Blue.
In testing their is the SAT / ACT.
In teacher certification their needs competition, lets call them Scert [state] and Pcert [parent].
I just made that name up, Parent certification is my name.
Competition in certification would bring this lopsided system back in check.
-jim
Save a life for free.
[wikispeedia.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30219434</id>
	<title>Re:Naming?</title>
	<author>Uberbah</author>
	<datestamp>1259060580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>You mean, his anti-stem cell research policy where he shrunk the previous administrations budget of $0.00 to several millions. </i></p><p>Because it was a new area of science, dumbass.  Kind of hard to spend money to further develop an area of science BEFORE it's been invented/discovered.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You mean , his anti-stem cell research policy where he shrunk the previous administrations budget of $ 0.00 to several millions .
Because it was a new area of science , dumbass .
Kind of hard to spend money to further develop an area of science BEFORE it 's been invented/discovered .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You mean, his anti-stem cell research policy where he shrunk the previous administrations budget of $0.00 to several millions.
Because it was a new area of science, dumbass.
Kind of hard to spend money to further develop an area of science BEFORE it's been invented/discovered.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206094</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206638</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>zippthorne</author>
	<datestamp>1258973640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think society can afford too many scientists by a far larger margin than it can too many lawyers...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think society can afford too many scientists by a far larger margin than it can too many lawyers.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think society can afford too many scientists by a far larger margin than it can too many lawyers...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207562</id>
	<title>Re:STEM...</title>
	<author>VoltageX</author>
	<datestamp>1258977180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So stick Crayon Physics and Crazy Machines on DS and Wii, strongarm Nintendo and Sony into opening up their devkits and give some students the XDK and you have science education for the lazy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So stick Crayon Physics and Crazy Machines on DS and Wii , strongarm Nintendo and Sony into opening up their devkits and give some students the XDK and you have science education for the lazy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So stick Crayon Physics and Crazy Machines on DS and Wii, strongarm Nintendo and Sony into opening up their devkits and give some students the XDK and you have science education for the lazy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205906</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206176</id>
	<title>bucks</title>
	<author>TheMeuge</author>
	<datestamp>1258971720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not going to happen.</p><p>A post-doc doing biomedical research (which is the highest-paid field) makes $40k at NYU. This is after spending 4 years in college, and then doing research for 6 years making a $25k/year stipend. With a conversion rate of under 1 percent for faculty positions (which don't pay that much more anyway), why in the world would anyone actually do that to themselves?! You'd have to be REALLY driven to want to work 60+ hour weeks, under the perpetual stress of having your grant pulled, for less than subway ticket clerks make.</p><p>Even  better, in our new future we'll hamstring doctors and nurses pay, and make sure that nobody gives a damn about that kind of science too.</p><p>As for physics and chemistry (and I am not even talking about Mathematics), we've already driven them into the ground. No need to worry any further.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not going to happen.A post-doc doing biomedical research ( which is the highest-paid field ) makes $ 40k at NYU .
This is after spending 4 years in college , and then doing research for 6 years making a $ 25k/year stipend .
With a conversion rate of under 1 percent for faculty positions ( which do n't pay that much more anyway ) , why in the world would anyone actually do that to themselves ? !
You 'd have to be REALLY driven to want to work 60 + hour weeks , under the perpetual stress of having your grant pulled , for less than subway ticket clerks make.Even better , in our new future we 'll hamstring doctors and nurses pay , and make sure that nobody gives a damn about that kind of science too.As for physics and chemistry ( and I am not even talking about Mathematics ) , we 've already driven them into the ground .
No need to worry any further .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not going to happen.A post-doc doing biomedical research (which is the highest-paid field) makes $40k at NYU.
This is after spending 4 years in college, and then doing research for 6 years making a $25k/year stipend.
With a conversion rate of under 1 percent for faculty positions (which don't pay that much more anyway), why in the world would anyone actually do that to themselves?!
You'd have to be REALLY driven to want to work 60+ hour weeks, under the perpetual stress of having your grant pulled, for less than subway ticket clerks make.Even  better, in our new future we'll hamstring doctors and nurses pay, and make sure that nobody gives a damn about that kind of science too.As for physics and chemistry (and I am not even talking about Mathematics), we've already driven them into the ground.
No need to worry any further.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205988</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207106</id>
	<title>Re:Government intrusion and control isn't innovati</title>
	<author>spartacus\_prime</author>
	<datestamp>1258975560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not sure why you got modded flamebait, this idea makes a bit of sense (although I wouldn't have worded it in such a crypto-libertarian way).</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not sure why you got modded flamebait , this idea makes a bit of sense ( although I would n't have worded it in such a crypto-libertarian way ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not sure why you got modded flamebait, this idea makes a bit of sense (although I wouldn't have worded it in such a crypto-libertarian way).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206080</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208872</id>
	<title>Some ideas for fixing society...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258984260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is a long list here:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jobless\_recovery&amp;oldid=327497122" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jobless\_recovery&amp;oldid=327497122</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is a long list here :     http : //en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php ? title = Jobless \ _recovery&amp;oldid = 327497122 [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is a long list here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jobless\_recovery&amp;oldid=327497122 [wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206394</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207586</id>
	<title>Re:fired up, huh?</title>
	<author>CodeBuster</author>
	<datestamp>1258977240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>No offense, Mr. President, but you want to know what really gets us fired up about those things? Getting paid for it.</p></div><p>You hit the nail on the head. There are plenty of intelligent and qualified students here in the United States who would be willing to study mathematics, science or engineering <b> <i>except</i> </b> that the pay is not in line with the amount of effort required. Who wants to go $100K+ into debt, work hard for close to a decade after highschool acquiring the necessary knowledge and skills, and then be rewarded with $40K per year? That might be feasible in India, South Korea, or China but here in the United States elite students have much higher income expectations which means math and science oriented careers, which btw can and are easily outsourced, are out of the question. The best students choose business, law, or medicine (although that too will change if Obama gets healtchare 'reform' passed) instead of mathematics, physics, engineering, or computer science. If Obama wants to increase interest in math and science then he has to promote policies which make hard work in those fields pay off; otherwise, he is likely to remain disappointed with the US math and science numbers.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>No offense , Mr. President , but you want to know what really gets us fired up about those things ?
Getting paid for it.You hit the nail on the head .
There are plenty of intelligent and qualified students here in the United States who would be willing to study mathematics , science or engineering except that the pay is not in line with the amount of effort required .
Who wants to go $ 100K + into debt , work hard for close to a decade after highschool acquiring the necessary knowledge and skills , and then be rewarded with $ 40K per year ?
That might be feasible in India , South Korea , or China but here in the United States elite students have much higher income expectations which means math and science oriented careers , which btw can and are easily outsourced , are out of the question .
The best students choose business , law , or medicine ( although that too will change if Obama gets healtchare 'reform ' passed ) instead of mathematics , physics , engineering , or computer science .
If Obama wants to increase interest in math and science then he has to promote policies which make hard work in those fields pay off ; otherwise , he is likely to remain disappointed with the US math and science numbers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No offense, Mr. President, but you want to know what really gets us fired up about those things?
Getting paid for it.You hit the nail on the head.
There are plenty of intelligent and qualified students here in the United States who would be willing to study mathematics, science or engineering  except  that the pay is not in line with the amount of effort required.
Who wants to go $100K+ into debt, work hard for close to a decade after highschool acquiring the necessary knowledge and skills, and then be rewarded with $40K per year?
That might be feasible in India, South Korea, or China but here in the United States elite students have much higher income expectations which means math and science oriented careers, which btw can and are easily outsourced, are out of the question.
The best students choose business, law, or medicine (although that too will change if Obama gets healtchare 'reform' passed) instead of mathematics, physics, engineering, or computer science.
If Obama wants to increase interest in math and science then he has to promote policies which make hard work in those fields pay off; otherwise, he is likely to remain disappointed with the US math and science numbers.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205988</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30210594</id>
	<title>In defense of parents</title>
	<author>turkeyfish</author>
	<datestamp>1259004060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Lets face it America has been remade for the benefit of corporate elites.  Parents need help too.  You can't  complain about the parents, when many of them only make minimum wage and have little education themselves.  We need to start refocusing on how corporations need to take responsibility to put something back into America rather than taking it out.  We bend over constantly, because they supposedly provide "jobs".  Yes there are some jobs, but most of the money made is too unequally distributed for the entire corporate enterprise to be looked upon as a model vehicle for social good around which we must continue to redefine society at large.  There is NOTHING particularly important or useful or just in having just a few people gain all the benefits, simply because they can stack the system against everyone else.</p><p>We need a merit and science based economy not one that is designed and operated chiefly to maintain the privileges and benefits for a few.</p><p>We need to return to truly PROGRESSIVE taxation, with VERY MUCH HIGHER TAXES for the very wealthy and see the fruits of everyone's labor more equitable distributed so that we can afford to educate both parents and teachers, not menton making sure no one is hungry, without a job, or without health care.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lets face it America has been remade for the benefit of corporate elites .
Parents need help too .
You ca n't complain about the parents , when many of them only make minimum wage and have little education themselves .
We need to start refocusing on how corporations need to take responsibility to put something back into America rather than taking it out .
We bend over constantly , because they supposedly provide " jobs " .
Yes there are some jobs , but most of the money made is too unequally distributed for the entire corporate enterprise to be looked upon as a model vehicle for social good around which we must continue to redefine society at large .
There is NOTHING particularly important or useful or just in having just a few people gain all the benefits , simply because they can stack the system against everyone else.We need a merit and science based economy not one that is designed and operated chiefly to maintain the privileges and benefits for a few.We need to return to truly PROGRESSIVE taxation , with VERY MUCH HIGHER TAXES for the very wealthy and see the fruits of everyone 's labor more equitable distributed so that we can afford to educate both parents and teachers , not menton making sure no one is hungry , without a job , or without health care .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lets face it America has been remade for the benefit of corporate elites.
Parents need help too.
You can't  complain about the parents, when many of them only make minimum wage and have little education themselves.
We need to start refocusing on how corporations need to take responsibility to put something back into America rather than taking it out.
We bend over constantly, because they supposedly provide "jobs".
Yes there are some jobs, but most of the money made is too unequally distributed for the entire corporate enterprise to be looked upon as a model vehicle for social good around which we must continue to redefine society at large.
There is NOTHING particularly important or useful or just in having just a few people gain all the benefits, simply because they can stack the system against everyone else.We need a merit and science based economy not one that is designed and operated chiefly to maintain the privileges and benefits for a few.We need to return to truly PROGRESSIVE taxation, with VERY MUCH HIGHER TAXES for the very wealthy and see the fruits of everyone's labor more equitable distributed so that we can afford to educate both parents and teachers, not menton making sure no one is hungry, without a job, or without health care.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206060</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205890</id>
	<title>And In Unrelated News...</title>
	<author>Monkeedude1212</author>
	<datestamp>1258970460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>America's artistic value continues to decline with each hollywood blockbuster to be released. No studies whatsoever have been made to test if it could possibly be correlated to poor schooling in the fields of Language Arts, Drama/Theatre, and Humanitarian studies.</p><p>Up Next, a story about how a 3 legged dog saved a baby.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>America 's artistic value continues to decline with each hollywood blockbuster to be released .
No studies whatsoever have been made to test if it could possibly be correlated to poor schooling in the fields of Language Arts , Drama/Theatre , and Humanitarian studies.Up Next , a story about how a 3 legged dog saved a baby .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>America's artistic value continues to decline with each hollywood blockbuster to be released.
No studies whatsoever have been made to test if it could possibly be correlated to poor schooling in the fields of Language Arts, Drama/Theatre, and Humanitarian studies.Up Next, a story about how a 3 legged dog saved a baby.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208734</id>
	<title>Re:fired up, huh?</title>
	<author>Eil</author>
	<datestamp>1258983360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>This field in particular (information technology) was gutted about seven years ago under the last administration in the name of short term profits.</p></div></blockquote><p>Wait, what? I was no fan of the Bush Crew, trust me, but I fail to see how they were even indirectly responsible for the dot-com bubble. The dot-com bubble is the classic example of investors behaving stupidly, nothing more. Ditto for the housing crash last year, which eventually led us into the current recession.</p><blockquote><div><p>There is no R&amp;D budget left for innovation, and not much has happened that's revolutionary in this industry since the bubble burst.</p></div></blockquote><p>Okay, so your official position is that nothing innovative has happened in the whole entire I.T. field since 2001? Have you been having an exceptionally long snooze or what?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This field in particular ( information technology ) was gutted about seven years ago under the last administration in the name of short term profits.Wait , what ?
I was no fan of the Bush Crew , trust me , but I fail to see how they were even indirectly responsible for the dot-com bubble .
The dot-com bubble is the classic example of investors behaving stupidly , nothing more .
Ditto for the housing crash last year , which eventually led us into the current recession.There is no R&amp;D budget left for innovation , and not much has happened that 's revolutionary in this industry since the bubble burst.Okay , so your official position is that nothing innovative has happened in the whole entire I.T .
field since 2001 ?
Have you been having an exceptionally long snooze or what ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This field in particular (information technology) was gutted about seven years ago under the last administration in the name of short term profits.Wait, what?
I was no fan of the Bush Crew, trust me, but I fail to see how they were even indirectly responsible for the dot-com bubble.
The dot-com bubble is the classic example of investors behaving stupidly, nothing more.
Ditto for the housing crash last year, which eventually led us into the current recession.There is no R&amp;D budget left for innovation, and not much has happened that's revolutionary in this industry since the bubble burst.Okay, so your official position is that nothing innovative has happened in the whole entire I.T.
field since 2001?
Have you been having an exceptionally long snooze or what?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205988</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206070</id>
	<title>Re:Naming?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258971300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't know what it stands for now but in a few years it'll be referred to as:</p><p><b>ST</b>upid <b>E</b>ducation <b>M</b>andates</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know what it stands for now but in a few years it 'll be referred to as : STupid Education Mandates</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know what it stands for now but in a few years it'll be referred to as:STupid Education Mandates</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205920</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208158</id>
	<title>Re:STEM...</title>
	<author>Mia'cova</author>
	<datestamp>1258979880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not sure why you were rated troll. In many ways, you're right. I think children needs more instantaneous and direct feedback along with the accountability of automatic record-keeping. I think students should have what amounts to a "gamer score." The games are math, science, English, etc. Kids shouldn't be taught at the same pace. Maybe someone's sick or hurt for a week and ends up missing an important lesson. Core lessons should be available as interactive instruction with built in tests. If we tracked a child's individual achievements better, in a standard way, they could get help more easily and really see their progress. It would give kids a way to excel. It can be difficult for a kid to move ahead of a class and be recognized for it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not sure why you were rated troll .
In many ways , you 're right .
I think children needs more instantaneous and direct feedback along with the accountability of automatic record-keeping .
I think students should have what amounts to a " gamer score .
" The games are math , science , English , etc .
Kids should n't be taught at the same pace .
Maybe someone 's sick or hurt for a week and ends up missing an important lesson .
Core lessons should be available as interactive instruction with built in tests .
If we tracked a child 's individual achievements better , in a standard way , they could get help more easily and really see their progress .
It would give kids a way to excel .
It can be difficult for a kid to move ahead of a class and be recognized for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not sure why you were rated troll.
In many ways, you're right.
I think children needs more instantaneous and direct feedback along with the accountability of automatic record-keeping.
I think students should have what amounts to a "gamer score.
" The games are math, science, English, etc.
Kids shouldn't be taught at the same pace.
Maybe someone's sick or hurt for a week and ends up missing an important lesson.
Core lessons should be available as interactive instruction with built in tests.
If we tracked a child's individual achievements better, in a standard way, they could get help more easily and really see their progress.
It would give kids a way to excel.
It can be difficult for a kid to move ahead of a class and be recognized for it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205906</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206038</id>
	<title>Mythbusters</title>
	<author>mr100percent</author>
	<datestamp>1258971120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Adam Savage from Mythbusters was present, and <a href="http://twitter.com/donttrythis" title="twitter.com">twittered</a> [twitter.com] about the day's event, including being mentioned in Obama's speech and even posted a photo or two of meeting him and Dean Kamen.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Adam Savage from Mythbusters was present , and twittered [ twitter.com ] about the day 's event , including being mentioned in Obama 's speech and even posted a photo or two of meeting him and Dean Kamen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Adam Savage from Mythbusters was present, and twittered [twitter.com] about the day's event, including being mentioned in Obama's speech and even posted a photo or two of meeting him and Dean Kamen.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207332</id>
	<title>Re:fired up, huh?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258976340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"was gutted about seven years ago</p><p>You know what I was with you 100\% until you turned into another Bush hater. The damn collider in Texas was killed under Clinton. This isn't a Bush vs Gore or a Democratic Party vs Republican Party. We've been sold out by all of them. Put your Bush hate down long enough and you will see that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" was gutted about seven years agoYou know what I was with you 100 \ % until you turned into another Bush hater .
The damn collider in Texas was killed under Clinton .
This is n't a Bush vs Gore or a Democratic Party vs Republican Party .
We 've been sold out by all of them .
Put your Bush hate down long enough and you will see that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"was gutted about seven years agoYou know what I was with you 100\% until you turned into another Bush hater.
The damn collider in Texas was killed under Clinton.
This isn't a Bush vs Gore or a Democratic Party vs Republican Party.
We've been sold out by all of them.
Put your Bush hate down long enough and you will see that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205988</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208758</id>
	<title>Links about academia</title>
	<author>Paul Fernhout</author>
	<datestamp>1258983540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Related Links About Academia:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a href="http://novia.net/~pschleck/academia/" title="novia.net">http://novia.net/~pschleck/academia/</a> [novia.net]<br>Sample link:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "Generation Debt; Wanted: Really Smart Suckers: Grad school provides exciting new road to poverty"<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a href="http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0417,kamenetz,53011,1.html" title="villagevoice.com">http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0417,kamenetz,53011,1.html</a> [villagevoice.com]<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "Here's an exciting career opportunity you won't see in the classified ads. For the first six to 10 years, it pays less than $20,000 and demands superhuman levels of commitment in a Dickensian environment. Forget about marriage, a mortgage, or even Thanksgiving dinners, as the focus of your entire life narrows to the production, to exacting specifications, of a 300-page document less than a dozen people will read. Then it's time for advancement: Apply to 50 far-flung, undesirable locations, with a 30 to 40 percent chance of being offered any position at all. You may end up living 100 miles from your spouse and commuting to three different work locations a week. You may end up $50,000 in debt, with no health insurance, feeding your kids with food stamps. If you are the luckiest out of every five entrants, you may win the profession's ultimate prize: A comfortable middle-class job, for the rest of your life, with summers off. Welcome to the world of the humanities Ph.D. student, 2004, where promises mean little and revolt is in the air.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..."</p><p>Sounds like it is getting worse. Here is part of why:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; <a href="http://www.its.caltech.edu/~dg/crunch\_art.html" title="caltech.edu">http://www.its.caltech.edu/~dg/crunch\_art.html</a> [caltech.edu]<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; <a href="http://www.disciplined-minds.com/" title="disciplined-minds.com">http://www.disciplined-minds.com/</a> [disciplined-minds.com]<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Related Links About Academia :         http : //novia.net/ ~ pschleck/academia/ [ novia.net ] Sample link :         " Generation Debt ; Wanted : Really Smart Suckers : Grad school provides exciting new road to poverty "         http : //www.villagevoice.com/news/0417,kamenetz,53011,1.html [ villagevoice.com ]         " Here 's an exciting career opportunity you wo n't see in the classified ads .
For the first six to 10 years , it pays less than $ 20,000 and demands superhuman levels of commitment in a Dickensian environment .
Forget about marriage , a mortgage , or even Thanksgiving dinners , as the focus of your entire life narrows to the production , to exacting specifications , of a 300-page document less than a dozen people will read .
Then it 's time for advancement : Apply to 50 far-flung , undesirable locations , with a 30 to 40 percent chance of being offered any position at all .
You may end up living 100 miles from your spouse and commuting to three different work locations a week .
You may end up $ 50,000 in debt , with no health insurance , feeding your kids with food stamps .
If you are the luckiest out of every five entrants , you may win the profession 's ultimate prize : A comfortable middle-class job , for the rest of your life , with summers off .
Welcome to the world of the humanities Ph.D. student , 2004 , where promises mean little and revolt is in the air .
... " Sounds like it is getting worse .
Here is part of why :     http : //www.its.caltech.edu/ ~ dg/crunch \ _art.html [ caltech.edu ]     http : //www.disciplined-minds.com/ [ disciplined-minds.com ]    </tokentext>
<sentencetext>Related Links About Academia:
        http://novia.net/~pschleck/academia/ [novia.net]Sample link:
        "Generation Debt; Wanted: Really Smart Suckers: Grad school provides exciting new road to poverty"
        http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0417,kamenetz,53011,1.html [villagevoice.com]
        "Here's an exciting career opportunity you won't see in the classified ads.
For the first six to 10 years, it pays less than $20,000 and demands superhuman levels of commitment in a Dickensian environment.
Forget about marriage, a mortgage, or even Thanksgiving dinners, as the focus of your entire life narrows to the production, to exacting specifications, of a 300-page document less than a dozen people will read.
Then it's time for advancement: Apply to 50 far-flung, undesirable locations, with a 30 to 40 percent chance of being offered any position at all.
You may end up living 100 miles from your spouse and commuting to three different work locations a week.
You may end up $50,000 in debt, with no health insurance, feeding your kids with food stamps.
If you are the luckiest out of every five entrants, you may win the profession's ultimate prize: A comfortable middle-class job, for the rest of your life, with summers off.
Welcome to the world of the humanities Ph.D. student, 2004, where promises mean little and revolt is in the air.
..."Sounds like it is getting worse.
Here is part of why:
    http://www.its.caltech.edu/~dg/crunch\_art.html [caltech.edu]
    http://www.disciplined-minds.com/ [disciplined-minds.com]
   </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206176</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206630</id>
	<title>Non-Lingual children</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258973640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What does it matter when children are non-lingual?  Kids today can't read or even speak in English.  They also can't speak or read in Spanish (the ones of Latin descent who are the worst offenders).  I would love to see science, math, and other subjects receive more attention, but without structured language, how can they assimilate ideas, communicate effectively, or understand?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What does it matter when children are non-lingual ?
Kids today ca n't read or even speak in English .
They also ca n't speak or read in Spanish ( the ones of Latin descent who are the worst offenders ) .
I would love to see science , math , and other subjects receive more attention , but without structured language , how can they assimilate ideas , communicate effectively , or understand ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What does it matter when children are non-lingual?
Kids today can't read or even speak in English.
They also can't speak or read in Spanish (the ones of Latin descent who are the worst offenders).
I would love to see science, math, and other subjects receive more attention, but without structured language, how can they assimilate ideas, communicate effectively, or understand?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30209724</id>
	<title>Re:Translation: Massive Union Vote Buying Program</title>
	<author>Upaut</author>
	<datestamp>1258992120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>"Get out of your chair, go sit in your hummer, and without leaving your garage, turn it on and listen to Mike Savage until you fall into a deep, permanent sleep.</i> <br> <br>On the other hand, I've found that building a chair with a child (I'm fond of this hiking staff I found on instructables that converts into a tripod chair... Cost me $6 to make and gets tons of usage....) , showing them how your engine works (The diesel Humvee isn't all that wasteful a car... The mileage is about par to a "normal" car... Horrid by diesel standards, but not too bad. That and once you put the two tank system on it to run WVO that you salvage from the dumpster of a Chinese food restaurant, pretty good all around...), go inside and watch Adam Savage and crew bring science to the masses (Even Mr. Wizard blew things up from time to time.... Gets little boys and girls open their eyes wide like fireworks, then bombard with questions of "how that happened...), then do some 5BX as a family and go to bed... <br> <br>For each horrid, lazy, sociopathic member of society, I think the growing "Maker" movement are teaching themselves, and their children, what they missed in our generation of cuts and protection. And if that is the case, over time these better rounded groups will rise in society... Or at least in the comfort of their own lives....</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Get out of your chair , go sit in your hummer , and without leaving your garage , turn it on and listen to Mike Savage until you fall into a deep , permanent sleep .
On the other hand , I 've found that building a chair with a child ( I 'm fond of this hiking staff I found on instructables that converts into a tripod chair... Cost me $ 6 to make and gets tons of usage.... ) , showing them how your engine works ( The diesel Humvee is n't all that wasteful a car... The mileage is about par to a " normal " car... Horrid by diesel standards , but not too bad .
That and once you put the two tank system on it to run WVO that you salvage from the dumpster of a Chinese food restaurant , pretty good all around... ) , go inside and watch Adam Savage and crew bring science to the masses ( Even Mr. Wizard blew things up from time to time.... Gets little boys and girls open their eyes wide like fireworks , then bombard with questions of " how that happened... ) , then do some 5BX as a family and go to bed... For each horrid , lazy , sociopathic member of society , I think the growing " Maker " movement are teaching themselves , and their children , what they missed in our generation of cuts and protection .
And if that is the case , over time these better rounded groups will rise in society... Or at least in the comfort of their own lives... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Get out of your chair, go sit in your hummer, and without leaving your garage, turn it on and listen to Mike Savage until you fall into a deep, permanent sleep.
On the other hand, I've found that building a chair with a child (I'm fond of this hiking staff I found on instructables that converts into a tripod chair... Cost me $6 to make and gets tons of usage....) , showing them how your engine works (The diesel Humvee isn't all that wasteful a car... The mileage is about par to a "normal" car... Horrid by diesel standards, but not too bad.
That and once you put the two tank system on it to run WVO that you salvage from the dumpster of a Chinese food restaurant, pretty good all around...), go inside and watch Adam Savage and crew bring science to the masses (Even Mr. Wizard blew things up from time to time.... Gets little boys and girls open their eyes wide like fireworks, then bombard with questions of "how that happened...), then do some 5BX as a family and go to bed...  For each horrid, lazy, sociopathic member of society, I think the growing "Maker" movement are teaching themselves, and their children, what they missed in our generation of cuts and protection.
And if that is the case, over time these better rounded groups will rise in society... Or at least in the comfort of their own lives....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207020</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30210544</id>
	<title>Re:bucks</title>
	<author>turkeyfish</author>
	<datestamp>1259003160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The reason its $40K per year (I only made that much after attaining a professorship) is that the average scientist has no bargaining power in the market and "consumers" fail to make a connection between what the researcher does and what its "worth" to the consumer (the average American who has little idea of what it is that the researcher does and how that fits into how society works as a whole  In contrast, the lawyer, banker, CEO can extract their "commission" at the point of sale.  Try to change that in this country and loud cries of "Socialism" will be heard, just as is the case when teachers actually band together to form unions.<br>).<br>Perhaps those cry "Socialism", will only be satisfied when all science, math and engineering is outsourced to foreigners.</p><p>Good for Obama for at least trying to improve things, while his critics simply scream, carp and assure that the US simply advocate a further dismantling of science education in the US..</p><p>I don't think there will ever be big bucks for most science, but if we want to survive as a species, we need to give serious consideration to developing a science based economy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The reason its $ 40K per year ( I only made that much after attaining a professorship ) is that the average scientist has no bargaining power in the market and " consumers " fail to make a connection between what the researcher does and what its " worth " to the consumer ( the average American who has little idea of what it is that the researcher does and how that fits into how society works as a whole In contrast , the lawyer , banker , CEO can extract their " commission " at the point of sale .
Try to change that in this country and loud cries of " Socialism " will be heard , just as is the case when teachers actually band together to form unions .
) .Perhaps those cry " Socialism " , will only be satisfied when all science , math and engineering is outsourced to foreigners.Good for Obama for at least trying to improve things , while his critics simply scream , carp and assure that the US simply advocate a further dismantling of science education in the US..I do n't think there will ever be big bucks for most science , but if we want to survive as a species , we need to give serious consideration to developing a science based economy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reason its $40K per year (I only made that much after attaining a professorship) is that the average scientist has no bargaining power in the market and "consumers" fail to make a connection between what the researcher does and what its "worth" to the consumer (the average American who has little idea of what it is that the researcher does and how that fits into how society works as a whole  In contrast, the lawyer, banker, CEO can extract their "commission" at the point of sale.
Try to change that in this country and loud cries of "Socialism" will be heard, just as is the case when teachers actually band together to form unions.
).Perhaps those cry "Socialism", will only be satisfied when all science, math and engineering is outsourced to foreigners.Good for Obama for at least trying to improve things, while his critics simply scream, carp and assure that the US simply advocate a further dismantling of science education in the US..I don't think there will ever be big bucks for most science, but if we want to survive as a species, we need to give serious consideration to developing a science based economy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206176</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206094</id>
	<title>Re:Naming?</title>
	<author>SnarfQuest</author>
	<datestamp>1258971420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You mean, his anti-stem cell research policy where he shrunk the previous administrations budget of $0.00 to several millions. Is that the anti-stem cell research policy you are talking about? I guess you would have been much happier if he just kept the previous administrations spending level on this research.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You mean , his anti-stem cell research policy where he shrunk the previous administrations budget of $ 0.00 to several millions .
Is that the anti-stem cell research policy you are talking about ?
I guess you would have been much happier if he just kept the previous administrations spending level on this research .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You mean, his anti-stem cell research policy where he shrunk the previous administrations budget of $0.00 to several millions.
Is that the anti-stem cell research policy you are talking about?
I guess you would have been much happier if he just kept the previous administrations spending level on this research.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205920</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30210468</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>turkeyfish</author>
	<datestamp>1259002200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> Also, they have no boss or people funding them to answer to.</p></div><p>You obviously have never come close to doing any scientific research.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Also , they have no boss or people funding them to answer to.You obviously have never come close to doing any scientific research .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Also, they have no boss or people funding them to answer to.You obviously have never come close to doing any scientific research.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206464</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206414</id>
	<title>Re:fired up, huh?</title>
	<author>MadAnalyst</author>
	<datestamp>1258972740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>You know what really pays like crap? Teaching.
<p>I have one of those fancy scientific degrees the parent mentions, and a good job to go with it. I enjoyed teaching in college (TA work in lab and lecture) and think I do pretty decently at it. But it will be a long time until I consider teaching because the pay stinks and I got me a load a debts to manage (thanks to my fancy education).
</p><p>I guess I'm just stating a moderately true idea that it is often those who can't that teach. I can, so I am somewhere doing the higher paid option. I don't really love it every day, but the almighty dollar matters right now. Would I enjoy teaching more? I just might, particularly the sense of achievement that comes with improving our youth (also called getting to be smug about it). But that field can't afford me right now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You know what really pays like crap ?
Teaching . I have one of those fancy scientific degrees the parent mentions , and a good job to go with it .
I enjoyed teaching in college ( TA work in lab and lecture ) and think I do pretty decently at it .
But it will be a long time until I consider teaching because the pay stinks and I got me a load a debts to manage ( thanks to my fancy education ) .
I guess I 'm just stating a moderately true idea that it is often those who ca n't that teach .
I can , so I am somewhere doing the higher paid option .
I do n't really love it every day , but the almighty dollar matters right now .
Would I enjoy teaching more ?
I just might , particularly the sense of achievement that comes with improving our youth ( also called getting to be smug about it ) .
But that field ca n't afford me right now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know what really pays like crap?
Teaching.
I have one of those fancy scientific degrees the parent mentions, and a good job to go with it.
I enjoyed teaching in college (TA work in lab and lecture) and think I do pretty decently at it.
But it will be a long time until I consider teaching because the pay stinks and I got me a load a debts to manage (thanks to my fancy education).
I guess I'm just stating a moderately true idea that it is often those who can't that teach.
I can, so I am somewhere doing the higher paid option.
I don't really love it every day, but the almighty dollar matters right now.
Would I enjoy teaching more?
I just might, particularly the sense of achievement that comes with improving our youth (also called getting to be smug about it).
But that field can't afford me right now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205988</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206180</id>
	<title>money</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258971780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Yet too often our schools lack support for teachers or the other resources needed to convey the practical utility and remarkable beauty of science and engineering."</p><p>"dramatic commitments in the hundreds of millions of dollars"</p><p>I've never understood why America's solution to every problem is to throw money at it.  If money/funding is the most influential thing for a good education, America would have the best grade school system in the world.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Yet too often our schools lack support for teachers or the other resources needed to convey the practical utility and remarkable beauty of science and engineering .
" " dramatic commitments in the hundreds of millions of dollars " I 've never understood why America 's solution to every problem is to throw money at it .
If money/funding is the most influential thing for a good education , America would have the best grade school system in the world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Yet too often our schools lack support for teachers or the other resources needed to convey the practical utility and remarkable beauty of science and engineering.
""dramatic commitments in the hundreds of millions of dollars"I've never understood why America's solution to every problem is to throw money at it.
If money/funding is the most influential thing for a good education, America would have the best grade school system in the world.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208992</id>
	<title>Re:bucks</title>
	<author>ajlisows</author>
	<datestamp>1258985280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is precisely why I got out of the field I was in back in the day, which was gene therapy research.  Now granted, I only have a Bachelors degree in Biochemistry and not a Masters or PhD so I couldn't expect to be at the top of the pay scale but I was doing some pretty intense work.  My job was to research and create polymers that I believed would do the best job at A. Encasing DNA inside B. Not falling apart immediately C.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...But still fall apart when it needed to (that is, when it entered the target cell) D. Effectively targeted a specific organ (hopefully the liver, but kidneys, lungs, and heart were also good) E. Deliver the DNA in tact to the nucleus of the target cell and F. Not kill the person that would receive the treatment.</p><p>One of the most exciting days of my life was when the lab results came in from one of my more promising molecules.  The guy that ran the tests on the rats was a little quirky and he was running down the hall yelling "Gene Therapy!  Gene Therapy!" because I managed to approach 2\% expression (5\% was the real target, but 2\% was the best we had done up to that point.)  with the molecule.  Unfortunately, I was making around $26,000 a year which was barely enough to have a small apartment, a modest car, and pay my bills.  I was working 10 hours a day in the lab and then went home to think about my projects another 4 hours.  I saw the other people in my lab.  All unmarried. All working more hours than I was. Most on hard drugs.  The work was interesting and could have great benefit for mankind if successful, but the life wasn't one I envisioned.  I left to pursue a career in IT.  It is rewarding..not as much so as the lab but I truly enjoy my work and relish the spare time I have for my wife, family, and friends.  I miss Chemistry on occasion but I have really never looked back.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is precisely why I got out of the field I was in back in the day , which was gene therapy research .
Now granted , I only have a Bachelors degree in Biochemistry and not a Masters or PhD so I could n't expect to be at the top of the pay scale but I was doing some pretty intense work .
My job was to research and create polymers that I believed would do the best job at A. Encasing DNA inside B. Not falling apart immediately C. ...But still fall apart when it needed to ( that is , when it entered the target cell ) D. Effectively targeted a specific organ ( hopefully the liver , but kidneys , lungs , and heart were also good ) E. Deliver the DNA in tact to the nucleus of the target cell and F. Not kill the person that would receive the treatment.One of the most exciting days of my life was when the lab results came in from one of my more promising molecules .
The guy that ran the tests on the rats was a little quirky and he was running down the hall yelling " Gene Therapy !
Gene Therapy !
" because I managed to approach 2 \ % expression ( 5 \ % was the real target , but 2 \ % was the best we had done up to that point .
) with the molecule .
Unfortunately , I was making around $ 26,000 a year which was barely enough to have a small apartment , a modest car , and pay my bills .
I was working 10 hours a day in the lab and then went home to think about my projects another 4 hours .
I saw the other people in my lab .
All unmarried .
All working more hours than I was .
Most on hard drugs .
The work was interesting and could have great benefit for mankind if successful , but the life was n't one I envisioned .
I left to pursue a career in IT .
It is rewarding..not as much so as the lab but I truly enjoy my work and relish the spare time I have for my wife , family , and friends .
I miss Chemistry on occasion but I have really never looked back .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is precisely why I got out of the field I was in back in the day, which was gene therapy research.
Now granted, I only have a Bachelors degree in Biochemistry and not a Masters or PhD so I couldn't expect to be at the top of the pay scale but I was doing some pretty intense work.
My job was to research and create polymers that I believed would do the best job at A. Encasing DNA inside B. Not falling apart immediately C. ...But still fall apart when it needed to (that is, when it entered the target cell) D. Effectively targeted a specific organ (hopefully the liver, but kidneys, lungs, and heart were also good) E. Deliver the DNA in tact to the nucleus of the target cell and F. Not kill the person that would receive the treatment.One of the most exciting days of my life was when the lab results came in from one of my more promising molecules.
The guy that ran the tests on the rats was a little quirky and he was running down the hall yelling "Gene Therapy!
Gene Therapy!
" because I managed to approach 2\% expression (5\% was the real target, but 2\% was the best we had done up to that point.
)  with the molecule.
Unfortunately, I was making around $26,000 a year which was barely enough to have a small apartment, a modest car, and pay my bills.
I was working 10 hours a day in the lab and then went home to think about my projects another 4 hours.
I saw the other people in my lab.
All unmarried.
All working more hours than I was.
Most on hard drugs.
The work was interesting and could have great benefit for mankind if successful, but the life wasn't one I envisioned.
I left to pursue a career in IT.
It is rewarding..not as much so as the lab but I truly enjoy my work and relish the spare time I have for my wife, family, and friends.
I miss Chemistry on occasion but I have really never looked back.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206812</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206390</id>
	<title>Re:soundbite lessons as PSAs</title>
	<author>sexconker</author>
	<datestamp>1258972680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That would fail miserably.</p><p>You'd have to choose what information to present, which "side" to take on each topic, figure out how to give that information to kids without offending <i>anyone</i>, then produce it , run it, and keep a team of washed-up academics on your payroll to keep it up-to-date with the latest research and information (which will still be wrong).</p><p>Taking your painting a wall example.<br>If you present it as flatly as a math book question, no one will pay attention.</p><p>"Billy is painting a wall.  The wall is 12 feet by 10 feet.  How much paint does Billy need to apply a single coat with and average thickness of 1/10,000th of an inch?"</p><p>It becomes a simple volume calculation, and utterly pointless.  No one will pay attention.</p><p>If you try to liven it up, you'll get tons of fucking issues.</p><p>"Billy is painting a wall.  The wall is 12 feet by 10 feet.  How much Dutch Boy brand quality latex paint does Billy need to complete the project?"</p><p>Well how much <b>do</b> you need?<br>Dutch Boy sure as fuck won't want you giving out bad information.  And if you don't use a real brand name, you'll just get mock PSAs from other paint companies saying Billy would have only needed X amount of paint if they used their brand, or Billy could paint that wall for $X, etc.</p><p>Contractors and painters will bitch.  You can't have Billy painting a wall that's not to code!  That was clearly a cement and mortar wall less than 15 feet from the main house.  Billy needs to power wash, seal, prime, apply at least 2 layers of an outdoor, weather-rated paint, then seal again.  If the wall has any mortar damage or loose sections, it must be inspected and repaired by a licensed contractor before any work can be done on it.</p><p>The kid that plays Billy has to be white to ambiguously brown - you can't have a government ad only showing "minorities" doing manual labor.</p><p>You have to find out what color Billy should paint the wall - to avoid offending anyone.  Can't have a white Billy painting a wall white!</p><p>You have to update your ad every year in accordance with whatever bullshit they do.</p><p>"Be sure to use a non murderchem based paint."<br>"Be sure to use a non-synthetic brush"<br>"Be sure to use an all-cotton, non-synthetic, beaver-cruelty-free brush or roller."</p><p>Then in the end you realize you showed Billy stirring the paint can with a screw driver and using a large cutting brush, plus you fucked up on the math.</p><p>Now no one knows basic math or painting skills.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That would fail miserably.You 'd have to choose what information to present , which " side " to take on each topic , figure out how to give that information to kids without offending anyone , then produce it , run it , and keep a team of washed-up academics on your payroll to keep it up-to-date with the latest research and information ( which will still be wrong ) .Taking your painting a wall example.If you present it as flatly as a math book question , no one will pay attention .
" Billy is painting a wall .
The wall is 12 feet by 10 feet .
How much paint does Billy need to apply a single coat with and average thickness of 1/10,000th of an inch ?
" It becomes a simple volume calculation , and utterly pointless .
No one will pay attention.If you try to liven it up , you 'll get tons of fucking issues .
" Billy is painting a wall .
The wall is 12 feet by 10 feet .
How much Dutch Boy brand quality latex paint does Billy need to complete the project ?
" Well how much do you need ? Dutch Boy sure as fuck wo n't want you giving out bad information .
And if you do n't use a real brand name , you 'll just get mock PSAs from other paint companies saying Billy would have only needed X amount of paint if they used their brand , or Billy could paint that wall for $ X , etc.Contractors and painters will bitch .
You ca n't have Billy painting a wall that 's not to code !
That was clearly a cement and mortar wall less than 15 feet from the main house .
Billy needs to power wash , seal , prime , apply at least 2 layers of an outdoor , weather-rated paint , then seal again .
If the wall has any mortar damage or loose sections , it must be inspected and repaired by a licensed contractor before any work can be done on it.The kid that plays Billy has to be white to ambiguously brown - you ca n't have a government ad only showing " minorities " doing manual labor.You have to find out what color Billy should paint the wall - to avoid offending anyone .
Ca n't have a white Billy painting a wall white ! You have to update your ad every year in accordance with whatever bullshit they do .
" Be sure to use a non murderchem based paint .
" " Be sure to use a non-synthetic brush " " Be sure to use an all-cotton , non-synthetic , beaver-cruelty-free brush or roller .
" Then in the end you realize you showed Billy stirring the paint can with a screw driver and using a large cutting brush , plus you fucked up on the math.Now no one knows basic math or painting skills .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That would fail miserably.You'd have to choose what information to present, which "side" to take on each topic, figure out how to give that information to kids without offending anyone, then produce it , run it, and keep a team of washed-up academics on your payroll to keep it up-to-date with the latest research and information (which will still be wrong).Taking your painting a wall example.If you present it as flatly as a math book question, no one will pay attention.
"Billy is painting a wall.
The wall is 12 feet by 10 feet.
How much paint does Billy need to apply a single coat with and average thickness of 1/10,000th of an inch?
"It becomes a simple volume calculation, and utterly pointless.
No one will pay attention.If you try to liven it up, you'll get tons of fucking issues.
"Billy is painting a wall.
The wall is 12 feet by 10 feet.
How much Dutch Boy brand quality latex paint does Billy need to complete the project?
"Well how much do you need?Dutch Boy sure as fuck won't want you giving out bad information.
And if you don't use a real brand name, you'll just get mock PSAs from other paint companies saying Billy would have only needed X amount of paint if they used their brand, or Billy could paint that wall for $X, etc.Contractors and painters will bitch.
You can't have Billy painting a wall that's not to code!
That was clearly a cement and mortar wall less than 15 feet from the main house.
Billy needs to power wash, seal, prime, apply at least 2 layers of an outdoor, weather-rated paint, then seal again.
If the wall has any mortar damage or loose sections, it must be inspected and repaired by a licensed contractor before any work can be done on it.The kid that plays Billy has to be white to ambiguously brown - you can't have a government ad only showing "minorities" doing manual labor.You have to find out what color Billy should paint the wall - to avoid offending anyone.
Can't have a white Billy painting a wall white!You have to update your ad every year in accordance with whatever bullshit they do.
"Be sure to use a non murderchem based paint.
""Be sure to use a non-synthetic brush""Be sure to use an all-cotton, non-synthetic, beaver-cruelty-free brush or roller.
"Then in the end you realize you showed Billy stirring the paint can with a screw driver and using a large cutting brush, plus you fucked up on the math.Now no one knows basic math or painting skills.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206040</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206880</id>
	<title>Re:Translation: Massive Union Vote Buying Program</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258974720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You really need to chill out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You really need to chill out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You really need to chill out.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206424</id>
	<title>Re:bucks</title>
	<author>CannonballHead</author>
	<datestamp>1258972740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But aren't you doing something you <i>like doing</i> in that research?  And get something like free room and board?  Or something like that?</p><p>And do you have to TA?  If I were do do a music thing, I'd have to TA to get my stipend, and the stipend is not $40k.</p><p>IMO, I don't see how anyone could complain too much about getting $25k a year for doing something you presumably <i>love doing</i> and not having to do anything else (like "work" for your living.  I work for my living and do what I *love* doing in the evening in my "free" time.  I make more than $25k a year, of course, but I have to pay for room, board, and my hobby, too).</p><p>Not saying it couldn't be improved; I'm saying it's not as bad as nothing.</p><p>Hamstringing doctors/nurses pay... not to mention biomedical research because of taxing the biomedical businesses who make their living researching and <i>selling</i> their tech<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... somehow we're going to tax them to pay for better health care and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... erg, don't get me started in that one.  Sure, maybe reform is in order, but not haphazard un-thought-out ridiculous reform from a bunch of politicians who mostly inherited fortunes from their families and have barely had to work for anything in their life.  No, I'm not just talking about Democrats.  That was a bipartisan critique<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But are n't you doing something you like doing in that research ?
And get something like free room and board ?
Or something like that ? And do you have to TA ?
If I were do do a music thing , I 'd have to TA to get my stipend , and the stipend is not $ 40k.IMO , I do n't see how anyone could complain too much about getting $ 25k a year for doing something you presumably love doing and not having to do anything else ( like " work " for your living .
I work for my living and do what I * love * doing in the evening in my " free " time .
I make more than $ 25k a year , of course , but I have to pay for room , board , and my hobby , too ) .Not saying it could n't be improved ; I 'm saying it 's not as bad as nothing.Hamstringing doctors/nurses pay... not to mention biomedical research because of taxing the biomedical businesses who make their living researching and selling their tech ... somehow we 're going to tax them to pay for better health care and ... erg , do n't get me started in that one .
Sure , maybe reform is in order , but not haphazard un-thought-out ridiculous reform from a bunch of politicians who mostly inherited fortunes from their families and have barely had to work for anything in their life .
No , I 'm not just talking about Democrats .
That was a bipartisan critique : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But aren't you doing something you like doing in that research?
And get something like free room and board?
Or something like that?And do you have to TA?
If I were do do a music thing, I'd have to TA to get my stipend, and the stipend is not $40k.IMO, I don't see how anyone could complain too much about getting $25k a year for doing something you presumably love doing and not having to do anything else (like "work" for your living.
I work for my living and do what I *love* doing in the evening in my "free" time.
I make more than $25k a year, of course, but I have to pay for room, board, and my hobby, too).Not saying it couldn't be improved; I'm saying it's not as bad as nothing.Hamstringing doctors/nurses pay... not to mention biomedical research because of taxing the biomedical businesses who make their living researching and selling their tech ... somehow we're going to tax them to pay for better health care and ... erg, don't get me started in that one.
Sure, maybe reform is in order, but not haphazard un-thought-out ridiculous reform from a bunch of politicians who mostly inherited fortunes from their families and have barely had to work for anything in their life.
No, I'm not just talking about Democrats.
That was a bipartisan critique :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206176</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207558</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>WinterSolstice</author>
	<datestamp>1258977180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, that's not true.</p><p>Kids don't go into science/tech/engineering because it's a path to a lifetime of being outsourced and training up your replacements.</p><p>Want kids to go into Engineering/Math/Science? Create JOBS in engineering/math/science. Kids aren't stupid. When there were jobs in IT, people with degrees in other fields came to IT.</p><p>In other news, Obama goes to South Korea and loses a pissing contest.<br>Sorry guys, but cool has very little to do with it. Kids aren't stupid, they can see the writing on the wall, and they know that everything they buy is engineered, built, and shipped from overseas.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , that 's not true.Kids do n't go into science/tech/engineering because it 's a path to a lifetime of being outsourced and training up your replacements.Want kids to go into Engineering/Math/Science ?
Create JOBS in engineering/math/science .
Kids are n't stupid .
When there were jobs in IT , people with degrees in other fields came to IT.In other news , Obama goes to South Korea and loses a pissing contest.Sorry guys , but cool has very little to do with it .
Kids are n't stupid , they can see the writing on the wall , and they know that everything they buy is engineered , built , and shipped from overseas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, that's not true.Kids don't go into science/tech/engineering because it's a path to a lifetime of being outsourced and training up your replacements.Want kids to go into Engineering/Math/Science?
Create JOBS in engineering/math/science.
Kids aren't stupid.
When there were jobs in IT, people with degrees in other fields came to IT.In other news, Obama goes to South Korea and loses a pissing contest.Sorry guys, but cool has very little to do with it.
Kids aren't stupid, they can see the writing on the wall, and they know that everything they buy is engineered, built, and shipped from overseas.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205940</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207350</id>
	<title>Re:Translation: Massive Union Vote Buying Program</title>
	<author>dbIII</author>
	<datestamp>1258976400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You are blinded by a symptom the same way as those blaming the unions demanding high pay for prison officers for California being unable to balance it's budget.<br>The USA has some of the best graduate level education in the world but very low standards of education nearly everywhere else.  Ignore the union issue, it's not important that somebody you hate is going to get some advantage from this, what is important is to get US high school education to a point where students can expect to get the same level of education as students in India that they will effectively be competing against if the USA is to remain a leader in technology, finance or other areas.<br>It's not about the left, right or anything, it's a policy that could have come out of any honest government that cares about the future of the nation.  You only think it is a left wing approach becuase some right wing governments have been more interested in cutting funding to education and shifting it to other areas for short term gain than any sort of policy about education.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You are blinded by a symptom the same way as those blaming the unions demanding high pay for prison officers for California being unable to balance it 's budget.The USA has some of the best graduate level education in the world but very low standards of education nearly everywhere else .
Ignore the union issue , it 's not important that somebody you hate is going to get some advantage from this , what is important is to get US high school education to a point where students can expect to get the same level of education as students in India that they will effectively be competing against if the USA is to remain a leader in technology , finance or other areas.It 's not about the left , right or anything , it 's a policy that could have come out of any honest government that cares about the future of the nation .
You only think it is a left wing approach becuase some right wing governments have been more interested in cutting funding to education and shifting it to other areas for short term gain than any sort of policy about education .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are blinded by a symptom the same way as those blaming the unions demanding high pay for prison officers for California being unable to balance it's budget.The USA has some of the best graduate level education in the world but very low standards of education nearly everywhere else.
Ignore the union issue, it's not important that somebody you hate is going to get some advantage from this, what is important is to get US high school education to a point where students can expect to get the same level of education as students in India that they will effectively be competing against if the USA is to remain a leader in technology, finance or other areas.It's not about the left, right or anything, it's a policy that could have come out of any honest government that cares about the future of the nation.
You only think it is a left wing approach becuase some right wing governments have been more interested in cutting funding to education and shifting it to other areas for short term gain than any sort of policy about education.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206144</id>
	<title>Re:fired up, huh?</title>
	<author>Rogerborg</author>
	<datestamp>1258971600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Mmm.  What I'm hearing from President Political "Science" / International Relations / Lawyer is "do as I say, not as I did".</htmltext>
<tokenext>Mmm .
What I 'm hearing from President Political " Science " / International Relations / Lawyer is " do as I say , not as I did " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mmm.
What I'm hearing from President Political "Science" / International Relations / Lawyer is "do as I say, not as I did".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205988</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206538</id>
	<title>IT'S A SOCIALIST CONSPIRACY!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258973220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Obama is a member of the One World Order muslim kenyan atheist conspiracy and is only interested in promoting America-Last policies like Darwinism, heliocentrism, and rational thought.</p><p>YOU'VE BEEN WARNED!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Obama is a member of the One World Order muslim kenyan atheist conspiracy and is only interested in promoting America-Last policies like Darwinism , heliocentrism , and rational thought.YOU 'VE BEEN WARNED !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Obama is a member of the One World Order muslim kenyan atheist conspiracy and is only interested in promoting America-Last policies like Darwinism, heliocentrism, and rational thought.YOU'VE BEEN WARNED!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206990</id>
	<title>Re:bucks</title>
	<author>mknutty</author>
	<datestamp>1258975140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well I only know math and theoretical computer science (algorithms, AI, complexity theory, etc), but since you specifically bring up math...</p><p>Doing good academic research is HARD. The vast majority of current researchers are putting out random crap that will never go anywhere useful because frankly they are not good enough to make real progress. Your 99\% of people who couldn't even get jobs in academia would be in even worse shape than those guys. It's good they went into something else where they might actually contribute something of value.</p><p>As for the job sucking, it's actually amazing... if you're one of the few people who's brilliant enough to make a difference. At that level, you'll get tenure no matter how hard you work, and then you have it easy. Six figure salaries are standard at reasonable research universities, and top universities routinely give out 250k+ in addition to the option of consulting on the side and all the other benefits of tenure with almost unlimited freedom.</p><p>Sorry if this sounds harsh. But academia is one field that does not benefit from having more mediocre people doing make-work. And if you're even concerned about whether tenure will be a problem for you at a good university (such that you're working 60+ hours a week to make it happen for example), you ARE going to be mediocre. Math and CS research are progressing as fast or faster than they ever have before. The system is fine, and the majority of great mathematicians / computer scientists are still doing research.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well I only know math and theoretical computer science ( algorithms , AI , complexity theory , etc ) , but since you specifically bring up math...Doing good academic research is HARD .
The vast majority of current researchers are putting out random crap that will never go anywhere useful because frankly they are not good enough to make real progress .
Your 99 \ % of people who could n't even get jobs in academia would be in even worse shape than those guys .
It 's good they went into something else where they might actually contribute something of value.As for the job sucking , it 's actually amazing... if you 're one of the few people who 's brilliant enough to make a difference .
At that level , you 'll get tenure no matter how hard you work , and then you have it easy .
Six figure salaries are standard at reasonable research universities , and top universities routinely give out 250k + in addition to the option of consulting on the side and all the other benefits of tenure with almost unlimited freedom.Sorry if this sounds harsh .
But academia is one field that does not benefit from having more mediocre people doing make-work .
And if you 're even concerned about whether tenure will be a problem for you at a good university ( such that you 're working 60 + hours a week to make it happen for example ) , you ARE going to be mediocre .
Math and CS research are progressing as fast or faster than they ever have before .
The system is fine , and the majority of great mathematicians / computer scientists are still doing research .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well I only know math and theoretical computer science (algorithms, AI, complexity theory, etc), but since you specifically bring up math...Doing good academic research is HARD.
The vast majority of current researchers are putting out random crap that will never go anywhere useful because frankly they are not good enough to make real progress.
Your 99\% of people who couldn't even get jobs in academia would be in even worse shape than those guys.
It's good they went into something else where they might actually contribute something of value.As for the job sucking, it's actually amazing... if you're one of the few people who's brilliant enough to make a difference.
At that level, you'll get tenure no matter how hard you work, and then you have it easy.
Six figure salaries are standard at reasonable research universities, and top universities routinely give out 250k+ in addition to the option of consulting on the side and all the other benefits of tenure with almost unlimited freedom.Sorry if this sounds harsh.
But academia is one field that does not benefit from having more mediocre people doing make-work.
And if you're even concerned about whether tenure will be a problem for you at a good university (such that you're working 60+ hours a week to make it happen for example), you ARE going to be mediocre.
Math and CS research are progressing as fast or faster than they ever have before.
The system is fine, and the majority of great mathematicians / computer scientists are still doing research.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206176</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30209162</id>
	<title>Re:Not without the parents</title>
	<author>Eil</author>
	<datestamp>1258986840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is true only to a point... I think there should be more emphasis on the merit of self-education. Learning for learning's sake. The smartest people in the world didn't get the majority of their education from school <i>or</i> their parents. They learned almost everything on their own. A good portion of them got this way simply by virtue of having a excessively boring childhood with parents that were either disinterested in their child's education or simply didn't have the time to interact with their kids on a frequent or even daily basis.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is true only to a point... I think there should be more emphasis on the merit of self-education .
Learning for learning 's sake .
The smartest people in the world did n't get the majority of their education from school or their parents .
They learned almost everything on their own .
A good portion of them got this way simply by virtue of having a excessively boring childhood with parents that were either disinterested in their child 's education or simply did n't have the time to interact with their kids on a frequent or even daily basis .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is true only to a point... I think there should be more emphasis on the merit of self-education.
Learning for learning's sake.
The smartest people in the world didn't get the majority of their education from school or their parents.
They learned almost everything on their own.
A good portion of them got this way simply by virtue of having a excessively boring childhood with parents that were either disinterested in their child's education or simply didn't have the time to interact with their kids on a frequent or even daily basis.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206052</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206922</id>
	<title>Re:fired up, huh?</title>
	<author>Grishnakh</author>
	<datestamp>1258974900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've heard that high school teachers in some states actually make decent pay (like $50-60k).  The problem is that different states pay radically differently.  Many (low-paying) states have complained about higher-paying states recruiting away their best teachers.  Since pay is determined by state governments with no regard to market rates, you may have a situation where you could move just one state away, enjoy a similar cost-of-living and climate, and make twice as much money.</p><p>If you're seriously interested in teaching as a profession, look at the pay rates nationwide before giving up on it.  Don't just look in your own state.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've heard that high school teachers in some states actually make decent pay ( like $ 50-60k ) .
The problem is that different states pay radically differently .
Many ( low-paying ) states have complained about higher-paying states recruiting away their best teachers .
Since pay is determined by state governments with no regard to market rates , you may have a situation where you could move just one state away , enjoy a similar cost-of-living and climate , and make twice as much money.If you 're seriously interested in teaching as a profession , look at the pay rates nationwide before giving up on it .
Do n't just look in your own state .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've heard that high school teachers in some states actually make decent pay (like $50-60k).
The problem is that different states pay radically differently.
Many (low-paying) states have complained about higher-paying states recruiting away their best teachers.
Since pay is determined by state governments with no regard to market rates, you may have a situation where you could move just one state away, enjoy a similar cost-of-living and climate, and make twice as much money.If you're seriously interested in teaching as a profession, look at the pay rates nationwide before giving up on it.
Don't just look in your own state.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206414</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207710</id>
	<title>Discontinue all sports programs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258977780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>thanks, now we have proper funding for books and such.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>thanks , now we have proper funding for books and such .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>thanks, now we have proper funding for books and such.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206534</id>
	<title>Re:Parents . . .</title>
	<author>fiannaFailMan</author>
	<datestamp>1258973220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Parents, parents, parents.</p><p>They are in the best position (or should be!) to motivate their kids.  If they can't, no billion dollar program will either.</p></div><p>Let's just give up then.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Parents , parents , parents.They are in the best position ( or should be !
) to motivate their kids .
If they ca n't , no billion dollar program will either.Let 's just give up then .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Parents, parents, parents.They are in the best position (or should be!
) to motivate their kids.
If they can't, no billion dollar program will either.Let's just give up then.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206060</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206052</id>
	<title>Not without the parents</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258971180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Unless the proposal includes some tactics for getting the parents involvement, it'll be doomed before it starts.

Education happens outside of the classroom just as much as in it and a child's mindset regarding education (no matter the field) is strongly influenced by their parents' mindset.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless the proposal includes some tactics for getting the parents involvement , it 'll be doomed before it starts .
Education happens outside of the classroom just as much as in it and a child 's mindset regarding education ( no matter the field ) is strongly influenced by their parents ' mindset .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unless the proposal includes some tactics for getting the parents involvement, it'll be doomed before it starts.
Education happens outside of the classroom just as much as in it and a child's mindset regarding education (no matter the field) is strongly influenced by their parents' mindset.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206832</id>
	<title>Re:Red flag No. 1: Teacher unions like this plan</title>
	<author>rpillala</author>
	<datestamp>1258974480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The unions, on the other hand, are out of touch with the classroom and mostly interested in their own survival.</p></div><p>This is interesting because I find that description applies mostly to school administrator types.  Not so much building-level administrators, but people closer to the central office or at the central office.</p><p>These are the same personnel who, if we just untied their hands from the big bad teachers' unions, could solve all the problems in education.  And apparently most problems in education can be solved by requiring no cause for firing.  Amirite?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The unions , on the other hand , are out of touch with the classroom and mostly interested in their own survival.This is interesting because I find that description applies mostly to school administrator types .
Not so much building-level administrators , but people closer to the central office or at the central office.These are the same personnel who , if we just untied their hands from the big bad teachers ' unions , could solve all the problems in education .
And apparently most problems in education can be solved by requiring no cause for firing .
Amirite ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The unions, on the other hand, are out of touch with the classroom and mostly interested in their own survival.This is interesting because I find that description applies mostly to school administrator types.
Not so much building-level administrators, but people closer to the central office or at the central office.These are the same personnel who, if we just untied their hands from the big bad teachers' unions, could solve all the problems in education.
And apparently most problems in education can be solved by requiring no cause for firing.
Amirite?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206168</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207168</id>
	<title>Re:bucks</title>
	<author>CannonballHead</author>
	<datestamp>1258975740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Point taken.  Would mark insightful if I could.</p><p>I've asked in other posts but I'll ask again... how should research money/pay/whatever get given out, though?  It seems there has to be some sort of merit/demand based dispensing of funds.  Not every research project, no matter if an individual loves it or not, seems as worth it as every other one...</p><p>Corporations don't have as much of a problem with this, as they can weigh it directly to how much they could possibly get with the research in question.  But if it's the government dispensing these funds.. well, we all know how unbiased and non-pork/ear-marked the government and education system is<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Point taken .
Would mark insightful if I could.I 've asked in other posts but I 'll ask again... how should research money/pay/whatever get given out , though ?
It seems there has to be some sort of merit/demand based dispensing of funds .
Not every research project , no matter if an individual loves it or not , seems as worth it as every other one...Corporations do n't have as much of a problem with this , as they can weigh it directly to how much they could possibly get with the research in question .
But if it 's the government dispensing these funds.. well , we all know how unbiased and non-pork/ear-marked the government and education system is ; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Point taken.
Would mark insightful if I could.I've asked in other posts but I'll ask again... how should research money/pay/whatever get given out, though?
It seems there has to be some sort of merit/demand based dispensing of funds.
Not every research project, no matter if an individual loves it or not, seems as worth it as every other one...Corporations don't have as much of a problem with this, as they can weigh it directly to how much they could possibly get with the research in question.
But if it's the government dispensing these funds.. well, we all know how unbiased and non-pork/ear-marked the government and education system is ;)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206812</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208864</id>
	<title>You obviously know few decent women.</title>
	<author>jotaeleemeese</author>
	<datestamp>1258984260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are many chicks out there that can see more on males than mere manutention machines.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are many chicks out there that can see more on males than mere manutention machines .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are many chicks out there that can see more on males than mere manutention machines.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206812</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206682</id>
	<title>This should be foreign policy as well...</title>
	<author>feranick</author>
	<datestamp>1258973820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Building schools and educating people in developing countries (that vocally demand education) is a proven much more effective way to fight against fundamentalisms of all types.<br> <br> Books instead of bombs. <br> <br>https://www.ikat.org/</htmltext>
<tokenext>Building schools and educating people in developing countries ( that vocally demand education ) is a proven much more effective way to fight against fundamentalisms of all types .
Books instead of bombs .
https : //www.ikat.org/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Building schools and educating people in developing countries (that vocally demand education) is a proven much more effective way to fight against fundamentalisms of all types.
Books instead of bombs.
https://www.ikat.org/</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30220834</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>winwar</author>
	<datestamp>1259067360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Massive cash awards to US scientists."</p><p>Even better, JOBS.  For instance, there are an awful lot of research scientists with advanced degrees that are currently being fired by drug companies.  And the jobs aren't going to come back.</p><p>I routinely come across scientists working outside their field because their are no jobs in their field.  Money isn't the problem.  For the most part, lack of work is.  Combine this with the rapid advances in tech and long education times, it's kind of hard to predict if the area you start studying will land you a good job or just a lot of crushing debt....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Massive cash awards to US scientists .
" Even better , JOBS .
For instance , there are an awful lot of research scientists with advanced degrees that are currently being fired by drug companies .
And the jobs are n't going to come back.I routinely come across scientists working outside their field because their are no jobs in their field .
Money is n't the problem .
For the most part , lack of work is .
Combine this with the rapid advances in tech and long education times , it 's kind of hard to predict if the area you start studying will land you a good job or just a lot of crushing debt... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Massive cash awards to US scientists.
"Even better, JOBS.
For instance, there are an awful lot of research scientists with advanced degrees that are currently being fired by drug companies.
And the jobs aren't going to come back.I routinely come across scientists working outside their field because their are no jobs in their field.
Money isn't the problem.
For the most part, lack of work is.
Combine this with the rapid advances in tech and long education times, it's kind of hard to predict if the area you start studying will land you a good job or just a lot of crushing debt....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205940</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206062</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>kevinNCSU</author>
	<datestamp>1258971240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Having teachers that actually know science is also somewhat necessary, and for that to happen you need to pay people that know science enough that it's worth it for them to teach.  I would argue rather than huge cash prizes for scientists you need huge cash prizes for teachers of science at the High School levels.  I guess preferably there should be a lot of crossover.</p><p>But the fact is, you can make a lot of money as an engineer and scientist as it is.  Partly because so few people get interested in doing it and even less of those are able to hack it.  The money making ability isn't missing, the aptitude and attitude is, and that needs to be instilled at a younger level.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Having teachers that actually know science is also somewhat necessary , and for that to happen you need to pay people that know science enough that it 's worth it for them to teach .
I would argue rather than huge cash prizes for scientists you need huge cash prizes for teachers of science at the High School levels .
I guess preferably there should be a lot of crossover.But the fact is , you can make a lot of money as an engineer and scientist as it is .
Partly because so few people get interested in doing it and even less of those are able to hack it .
The money making ability is n't missing , the aptitude and attitude is , and that needs to be instilled at a younger level .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having teachers that actually know science is also somewhat necessary, and for that to happen you need to pay people that know science enough that it's worth it for them to teach.
I would argue rather than huge cash prizes for scientists you need huge cash prizes for teachers of science at the High School levels.
I guess preferably there should be a lot of crossover.But the fact is, you can make a lot of money as an engineer and scientist as it is.
Partly because so few people get interested in doing it and even less of those are able to hack it.
The money making ability isn't missing, the aptitude and attitude is, and that needs to be instilled at a younger level.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205940</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207416</id>
	<title>Fool me once, shame on you...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258976640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The US already spends more per capita on public education than any other country in the world.  More money is generally not going to help, unless it goes to schools like Basis in Tuscon, AZ and towards hiring qualified teachers in these subjects.</p><p>Full disclosure: I attended public school in Miami, FL for 12 years and learned the humanistic curriculum that most Slashdot readers are familiar with.  Since then, my wife and I have educated our kids at home.  The first two, scored 2400 on the SAT, and the third is well on his way.</p><p>Now, if the public schools would teach real critical thinking, you know formal and informal logic, argumentation and rhetoric, they wouldn't last more than one generation without serious reform.</p><p>Like the church in the 16th century, this country needs the equivalent of a Martin Luther to expose this institution for the sham that it has become.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The US already spends more per capita on public education than any other country in the world .
More money is generally not going to help , unless it goes to schools like Basis in Tuscon , AZ and towards hiring qualified teachers in these subjects.Full disclosure : I attended public school in Miami , FL for 12 years and learned the humanistic curriculum that most Slashdot readers are familiar with .
Since then , my wife and I have educated our kids at home .
The first two , scored 2400 on the SAT , and the third is well on his way.Now , if the public schools would teach real critical thinking , you know formal and informal logic , argumentation and rhetoric , they would n't last more than one generation without serious reform.Like the church in the 16th century , this country needs the equivalent of a Martin Luther to expose this institution for the sham that it has become .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The US already spends more per capita on public education than any other country in the world.
More money is generally not going to help, unless it goes to schools like Basis in Tuscon, AZ and towards hiring qualified teachers in these subjects.Full disclosure: I attended public school in Miami, FL for 12 years and learned the humanistic curriculum that most Slashdot readers are familiar with.
Since then, my wife and I have educated our kids at home.
The first two, scored 2400 on the SAT, and the third is well on his way.Now, if the public schools would teach real critical thinking, you know formal and informal logic, argumentation and rhetoric, they wouldn't last more than one generation without serious reform.Like the church in the 16th century, this country needs the equivalent of a Martin Luther to expose this institution for the sham that it has become.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30216850</id>
	<title>Obama in Brazil</title>
	<author>bertoldofonseca</author>
	<datestamp>1259091780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was wondering if Obama could come to Brazil, after his mandate in the White House, and take the presidency to make the things in right way.

OK, if he [Obama] couldn't came, can be Jack Bauer, it will be a good improvement in another area, sending to jail or killing the corrupt people.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was wondering if Obama could come to Brazil , after his mandate in the White House , and take the presidency to make the things in right way .
OK , if he [ Obama ] could n't came , can be Jack Bauer , it will be a good improvement in another area , sending to jail or killing the corrupt people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was wondering if Obama could come to Brazil, after his mandate in the White House, and take the presidency to make the things in right way.
OK, if he [Obama] couldn't came, can be Jack Bauer, it will be a good improvement in another area, sending to jail or killing the corrupt people.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206866</id>
	<title>Re:fired up, huh?</title>
	<author>tekproxy2</author>
	<datestamp>1258974600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I laughed, I cried, I shook my fist. I hope someone, somewhere out there reads this and does \_everything\_ you suggest.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I laughed , I cried , I shook my fist .
I hope someone , somewhere out there reads this and does \ _everything \ _ you suggest .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I laughed, I cried, I shook my fist.
I hope someone, somewhere out there reads this and does \_everything\_ you suggest.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205988</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206464</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>Idiomatick</author>
	<datestamp>1258972920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Unless they are mad in which case they can afford a lair and deathrays in space. Also, they have no boss or people funding them to answer to.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless they are mad in which case they can afford a lair and deathrays in space .
Also , they have no boss or people funding them to answer to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unless they are mad in which case they can afford a lair and deathrays in space.
Also, they have no boss or people funding them to answer to.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206224</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206002</id>
	<title>Re:STEM...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258971000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are you so sure?  What percentage of modern CS enrollments are there because they'd love to make games?  What percentage of them will actually make games?  The rest are still furthering science/technology by getting their degrees.</p><p>There are also educational games, or research games like the Folding@Home's game that lets amateurs try to create unique protein packing.  There's even research suggesting that playing games can improve cognition.</p><p>Obviously too much gaming isn't a good thing, but neither is watching too much television, the latter which is far less stimulative compared to games.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are you so sure ?
What percentage of modern CS enrollments are there because they 'd love to make games ?
What percentage of them will actually make games ?
The rest are still furthering science/technology by getting their degrees.There are also educational games , or research games like the Folding @ Home 's game that lets amateurs try to create unique protein packing .
There 's even research suggesting that playing games can improve cognition.Obviously too much gaming is n't a good thing , but neither is watching too much television , the latter which is far less stimulative compared to games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are you so sure?
What percentage of modern CS enrollments are there because they'd love to make games?
What percentage of them will actually make games?
The rest are still furthering science/technology by getting their degrees.There are also educational games, or research games like the Folding@Home's game that lets amateurs try to create unique protein packing.
There's even research suggesting that playing games can improve cognition.Obviously too much gaming isn't a good thing, but neither is watching too much television, the latter which is far less stimulative compared to games.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205906</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208962</id>
	<title>Re:No impact on corporate america</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258984980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree that college majors in science &amp; engineering is are AVOIDED in the USA because of the disastrous OUTSOURCING OF QUALITY JOBS.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; After a LOT of thought, I've concluded the ROOT PROBLEM is this:<br>AUTOMATION (computerization, Internet &amp; robotic manufacturing<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...which accelerates globalization) BENEFITS CORPORATIONS far more than it benefits INDIVIDUAL USA citizens.  In fact, the average US citizen actually experiences a NET LOSS from globalization and will CONTINUE to do so, until the US seriously engages in AUTOMATION TO BENEFIT THE PEOPLE.<br>--What does this have to do with education?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...  Everything:<br>That is, when little Carlos, little Jane, little Ebony, and little Bobby see THEIR parents, or THEIR neighbor's parents, making good money from AUTOMATION THAT BENEFITS THE PEOPLE THEY KNOW, they will naturally be very EAGER TO STUDY science, engineering and math.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; But HOW can we provide AUTOMATION THAT BENEFITS THE PEOPLE?<br>IDEA #1:  A "Manhattan-Project-scale effort" to define  flexible desktop-sized AUTOMATED MANUFACTURING CELLS that (bright) ordinary US citizens can operate in one room of their homes.  There is NO insurmountable reason why such cells could not be extremely clean, non-polluting, energy efficient, cost-effective and highly profitable.  Standardize (and subsidize -or buy out right the companies making th best)  CAD/CAM software, I/O modules, etc.   Of course much more work needs to be done ("Manhattan-Project-scale effort").<br>Thus, ELIMINATE THE ADVANTAGE OF "CHEAP HUMAN LABOR" and you'll stop outsourcing of good jobs, grow millions of good local jobs, and the education problem will essentially self-correct.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree that college majors in science &amp; engineering is are AVOIDED in the USA because of the disastrous OUTSOURCING OF QUALITY JOBS .
          After a LOT of thought , I 've concluded the ROOT PROBLEM is this : AUTOMATION ( computerization , Internet &amp; robotic manufacturing ...which accelerates globalization ) BENEFITS CORPORATIONS far more than it benefits INDIVIDUAL USA citizens .
In fact , the average US citizen actually experiences a NET LOSS from globalization and will CONTINUE to do so , until the US seriously engages in AUTOMATION TO BENEFIT THE PEOPLE.--What does this have to do with education ?
... Everything : That is , when little Carlos , little Jane , little Ebony , and little Bobby see THEIR parents , or THEIR neighbor 's parents , making good money from AUTOMATION THAT BENEFITS THE PEOPLE THEY KNOW , they will naturally be very EAGER TO STUDY science , engineering and math .
      But HOW can we provide AUTOMATION THAT BENEFITS THE PEOPLE ? IDEA # 1 : A " Manhattan-Project-scale effort " to define flexible desktop-sized AUTOMATED MANUFACTURING CELLS that ( bright ) ordinary US citizens can operate in one room of their homes .
There is NO insurmountable reason why such cells could not be extremely clean , non-polluting , energy efficient , cost-effective and highly profitable .
Standardize ( and subsidize -or buy out right the companies making th best ) CAD/CAM software , I/O modules , etc .
Of course much more work needs to be done ( " Manhattan-Project-scale effort " ) .Thus , ELIMINATE THE ADVANTAGE OF " CHEAP HUMAN LABOR " and you 'll stop outsourcing of good jobs , grow millions of good local jobs , and the education problem will essentially self-correct .
               </tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree that college majors in science &amp; engineering is are AVOIDED in the USA because of the disastrous OUTSOURCING OF QUALITY JOBS.
          After a LOT of thought, I've concluded the ROOT PROBLEM is this:AUTOMATION (computerization, Internet &amp; robotic manufacturing ...which accelerates globalization) BENEFITS CORPORATIONS far more than it benefits INDIVIDUAL USA citizens.
In fact, the average US citizen actually experiences a NET LOSS from globalization and will CONTINUE to do so, until the US seriously engages in AUTOMATION TO BENEFIT THE PEOPLE.--What does this have to do with education?
...  Everything:That is, when little Carlos, little Jane, little Ebony, and little Bobby see THEIR parents, or THEIR neighbor's parents, making good money from AUTOMATION THAT BENEFITS THE PEOPLE THEY KNOW, they will naturally be very EAGER TO STUDY science, engineering and math.
      But HOW can we provide AUTOMATION THAT BENEFITS THE PEOPLE?IDEA #1:  A "Manhattan-Project-scale effort" to define  flexible desktop-sized AUTOMATED MANUFACTURING CELLS that (bright) ordinary US citizens can operate in one room of their homes.
There is NO insurmountable reason why such cells could not be extremely clean, non-polluting, energy efficient, cost-effective and highly profitable.
Standardize (and subsidize -or buy out right the companies making th best)  CAD/CAM software, I/O modules, etc.
Of course much more work needs to be done ("Manhattan-Project-scale effort").Thus, ELIMINATE THE ADVANTAGE OF "CHEAP HUMAN LABOR" and you'll stop outsourcing of good jobs, grow millions of good local jobs, and the education problem will essentially self-correct.
               </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30211892</id>
	<title>Re:bucks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259066280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Of course, no decent women is going to be picking her partners solely on their capacity to buy her stuff.</p><p>You just reduced women to kept breeding machines. Well done.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course , no decent women is going to be picking her partners solely on their capacity to buy her stuff.You just reduced women to kept breeding machines .
Well done .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course, no decent women is going to be picking her partners solely on their capacity to buy her stuff.You just reduced women to kept breeding machines.
Well done.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206812</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208382</id>
	<title>Goodstein, Gatto, Holt</title>
	<author>Paul Fernhout</author>
	<datestamp>1258981140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Three people who talk about education:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; <a href="http://www.its.caltech.edu/~dg/crunch\_art.html" title="caltech.edu">http://www.its.caltech.edu/~dg/crunch\_art.html</a> [caltech.edu]<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; <a href="http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/toc1.htm" title="johntaylorgatto.com">http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/toc1.htm</a> [johntaylorgatto.com]<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; <a href="http://www.holtgws.com/" title="holtgws.com">http://www.holtgws.com/</a> [holtgws.com]</p><p>From the first, Dr. David Goodstein:<br>"""<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; We must find a radically different social structure to organize research and education in science after The Big Crunch. That is not meant to be an exhortation. It is meant simply to be a statement of a fact known to be true with mathematical certainty, if science is to survive at all. The new structure will come about by evolution rather than design, because, for one thing, neither I nor anyone else has the faintest idea of what it will turn out to be, and for another, even if we did know where we are going to end up, we scientists have never been very good at guiding our own destiny. Only this much is sure: the era of exponential expansion will be replaced by an era of constraint. Because it will be unplanned, the transition is likely to be messy and painful for the participants. In fact, as we have seen, it already is. Ignoring the pain for the moment, however, I would like to look ahead and speculate on some conditions that must be met if science is to have a future as well as a past.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; It seems to me that there are two essential and clearly linked conditions to consider. One is that there must be a broad political consensus that pure research in basic science is a common good that must be supported from the public purse. The second is that the mining and sorting operation I've described must be discarded and replaced by genuine education in science, not just for the scientific elite, but for all the citizens who must form that broad political consensus.<br>"""<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Three people who talk about education :     http : //www.its.caltech.edu/ ~ dg/crunch \ _art.html [ caltech.edu ]     http : //www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/toc1.htm [ johntaylorgatto.com ]     http : //www.holtgws.com/ [ holtgws.com ] From the first , Dr. David Goodstein : " " "       We must find a radically different social structure to organize research and education in science after The Big Crunch .
That is not meant to be an exhortation .
It is meant simply to be a statement of a fact known to be true with mathematical certainty , if science is to survive at all .
The new structure will come about by evolution rather than design , because , for one thing , neither I nor anyone else has the faintest idea of what it will turn out to be , and for another , even if we did know where we are going to end up , we scientists have never been very good at guiding our own destiny .
Only this much is sure : the era of exponential expansion will be replaced by an era of constraint .
Because it will be unplanned , the transition is likely to be messy and painful for the participants .
In fact , as we have seen , it already is .
Ignoring the pain for the moment , however , I would like to look ahead and speculate on some conditions that must be met if science is to have a future as well as a past .
      It seems to me that there are two essential and clearly linked conditions to consider .
One is that there must be a broad political consensus that pure research in basic science is a common good that must be supported from the public purse .
The second is that the mining and sorting operation I 've described must be discarded and replaced by genuine education in science , not just for the scientific elite , but for all the citizens who must form that broad political consensus .
" " "    </tokentext>
<sentencetext>Three people who talk about education:
    http://www.its.caltech.edu/~dg/crunch\_art.html [caltech.edu]
    http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/toc1.htm [johntaylorgatto.com]
    http://www.holtgws.com/ [holtgws.com]From the first, Dr. David Goodstein:"""
      We must find a radically different social structure to organize research and education in science after The Big Crunch.
That is not meant to be an exhortation.
It is meant simply to be a statement of a fact known to be true with mathematical certainty, if science is to survive at all.
The new structure will come about by evolution rather than design, because, for one thing, neither I nor anyone else has the faintest idea of what it will turn out to be, and for another, even if we did know where we are going to end up, we scientists have never been very good at guiding our own destiny.
Only this much is sure: the era of exponential expansion will be replaced by an era of constraint.
Because it will be unplanned, the transition is likely to be messy and painful for the participants.
In fact, as we have seen, it already is.
Ignoring the pain for the moment, however, I would like to look ahead and speculate on some conditions that must be met if science is to have a future as well as a past.
      It seems to me that there are two essential and clearly linked conditions to consider.
One is that there must be a broad political consensus that pure research in basic science is a common good that must be supported from the public purse.
The second is that the mining and sorting operation I've described must be discarded and replaced by genuine education in science, not just for the scientific elite, but for all the citizens who must form that broad political consensus.
"""
   </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205990</id>
	<title>Sounds good?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258970940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>just graduated from high school in June, and i was just about the only one in my math and science class that actually cared about the class.</p><p>people these days just don't care about science. Most of the people i talked to wanted to go into the medical field, gaming field, or sports field, so while i didn't ask everyone in the school, i never met anyone who wanted to go to MIT or go work in a laboratory like in Los Alamos.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>just graduated from high school in June , and i was just about the only one in my math and science class that actually cared about the class.people these days just do n't care about science .
Most of the people i talked to wanted to go into the medical field , gaming field , or sports field , so while i did n't ask everyone in the school , i never met anyone who wanted to go to MIT or go work in a laboratory like in Los Alamos .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>just graduated from high school in June, and i was just about the only one in my math and science class that actually cared about the class.people these days just don't care about science.
Most of the people i talked to wanted to go into the medical field, gaming field, or sports field, so while i didn't ask everyone in the school, i never met anyone who wanted to go to MIT or go work in a laboratory like in Los Alamos.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208598</id>
	<title>The big crunch...</title>
	<author>Paul Fernhout</author>
	<datestamp>1258982520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Due to the end of the exponential growth of academia in the 1970s:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; <a href="http://www.its.caltech.edu/~dg/crunch\_art.html" title="caltech.edu">http://www.its.caltech.edu/~dg/crunch\_art.html</a> [caltech.edu]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Due to the end of the exponential growth of academia in the 1970s :     http : //www.its.caltech.edu/ ~ dg/crunch \ _art.html [ caltech.edu ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Due to the end of the exponential growth of academia in the 1970s:
    http://www.its.caltech.edu/~dg/crunch\_art.html [caltech.edu]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206176</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206976</id>
	<title>Problem is the parents not the schools</title>
	<author>gsgriffin</author>
	<datestamp>1258975080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've been to different parts of the world where kids have much less to learn with and yet reach very high in education.  They have a value in their home that causes them to strive for the most.  Here in America, there is much less emphasis placed on how hard we must try, because ultimately, if you drop out and do nothing, the government will still give you a home, food, and soon all the health care you may need.  In other places in the world, if you don't try hard the government will give you nothing and watch you starve.<br> <br>Let be honest with ourselves, we're not going to be really striving hard until it is essential for survival...like it is in most of the rest of the world.  We're our own worst enemy in making life easier and easier and requiring less and less effort.  It seems that we ultimately desire to just sit back and let the world feed us while we just monitor the computer screen and get paid lots of money.<br> <br>Throw all the money you want at school, but ultimately I'm for looking the parents straight in the eye and asking them what they're doing.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been to different parts of the world where kids have much less to learn with and yet reach very high in education .
They have a value in their home that causes them to strive for the most .
Here in America , there is much less emphasis placed on how hard we must try , because ultimately , if you drop out and do nothing , the government will still give you a home , food , and soon all the health care you may need .
In other places in the world , if you do n't try hard the government will give you nothing and watch you starve .
Let be honest with ourselves , we 're not going to be really striving hard until it is essential for survival...like it is in most of the rest of the world .
We 're our own worst enemy in making life easier and easier and requiring less and less effort .
It seems that we ultimately desire to just sit back and let the world feed us while we just monitor the computer screen and get paid lots of money .
Throw all the money you want at school , but ultimately I 'm for looking the parents straight in the eye and asking them what they 're doing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been to different parts of the world where kids have much less to learn with and yet reach very high in education.
They have a value in their home that causes them to strive for the most.
Here in America, there is much less emphasis placed on how hard we must try, because ultimately, if you drop out and do nothing, the government will still give you a home, food, and soon all the health care you may need.
In other places in the world, if you don't try hard the government will give you nothing and watch you starve.
Let be honest with ourselves, we're not going to be really striving hard until it is essential for survival...like it is in most of the rest of the world.
We're our own worst enemy in making life easier and easier and requiring less and less effort.
It seems that we ultimately desire to just sit back and let the world feed us while we just monitor the computer screen and get paid lots of money.
Throw all the money you want at school, but ultimately I'm for looking the parents straight in the eye and asking them what they're doing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207356</id>
	<title>Re:bucks</title>
	<author>TheMeuge</author>
	<datestamp>1258976460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>As for the job sucking, it's actually amazing... if you're one of the few people who's brilliant enough to make a difference.</p></div><p>I don't know how it is in mathematics, but in biomedical science brilliance has very little to do with it. It's luck, nepotism, and some more luck... intelligence and skill are important, but they won't get you anywhere by themselves.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>At that level, you'll get tenure no matter how hard you work, and then you have it easy.</p></div><p>Again, I don't know how it is in mathematics, but I know a number of big names (work for one of them) and NONE of them would say it's easy.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Sorry if this sounds harsh. But academia is one field that does not benefit from having more mediocre people doing make-work. And if you're even concerned about whether tenure will be a problem for you at a good university (such that you're working 60+ hours a week to make it happen for example), you ARE going to be mediocre.</p></div><p>I take it you consider yourself so brilliant that you don't need to work hard. Maybe in math that works, and you can solve some problem nobody else has been able to on your 20th coffee break. Life science research on the other hand is hard work with long hours, requiring meticulous attention to detail.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Math and CS research are progressing as fast or faster than they ever have before. The system is fine, and the majority of great mathematicians / computer scientists are still doing research.</p></div><p>I won't disagree with you because I know next to nil about your field, and I think you would do better if you took a similar approach. Of course, in your brilliance, you probably don't need to.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As for the job sucking , it 's actually amazing... if you 're one of the few people who 's brilliant enough to make a difference.I do n't know how it is in mathematics , but in biomedical science brilliance has very little to do with it .
It 's luck , nepotism , and some more luck... intelligence and skill are important , but they wo n't get you anywhere by themselves.At that level , you 'll get tenure no matter how hard you work , and then you have it easy.Again , I do n't know how it is in mathematics , but I know a number of big names ( work for one of them ) and NONE of them would say it 's easy.Sorry if this sounds harsh .
But academia is one field that does not benefit from having more mediocre people doing make-work .
And if you 're even concerned about whether tenure will be a problem for you at a good university ( such that you 're working 60 + hours a week to make it happen for example ) , you ARE going to be mediocre.I take it you consider yourself so brilliant that you do n't need to work hard .
Maybe in math that works , and you can solve some problem nobody else has been able to on your 20th coffee break .
Life science research on the other hand is hard work with long hours , requiring meticulous attention to detail.Math and CS research are progressing as fast or faster than they ever have before .
The system is fine , and the majority of great mathematicians / computer scientists are still doing research.I wo n't disagree with you because I know next to nil about your field , and I think you would do better if you took a similar approach .
Of course , in your brilliance , you probably do n't need to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As for the job sucking, it's actually amazing... if you're one of the few people who's brilliant enough to make a difference.I don't know how it is in mathematics, but in biomedical science brilliance has very little to do with it.
It's luck, nepotism, and some more luck... intelligence and skill are important, but they won't get you anywhere by themselves.At that level, you'll get tenure no matter how hard you work, and then you have it easy.Again, I don't know how it is in mathematics, but I know a number of big names (work for one of them) and NONE of them would say it's easy.Sorry if this sounds harsh.
But academia is one field that does not benefit from having more mediocre people doing make-work.
And if you're even concerned about whether tenure will be a problem for you at a good university (such that you're working 60+ hours a week to make it happen for example), you ARE going to be mediocre.I take it you consider yourself so brilliant that you don't need to work hard.
Maybe in math that works, and you can solve some problem nobody else has been able to on your 20th coffee break.
Life science research on the other hand is hard work with long hours, requiring meticulous attention to detail.Math and CS research are progressing as fast or faster than they ever have before.
The system is fine, and the majority of great mathematicians / computer scientists are still doing research.I won't disagree with you because I know next to nil about your field, and I think you would do better if you took a similar approach.
Of course, in your brilliance, you probably don't need to.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206990</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206508</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>blind biker</author>
	<datestamp>1258973100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Massive cash awards to US scientists. These kids choose not to go into science because it is not cool. Why is it not cool? Lots of hardwork and small incomes. If you give scientists boat loads of money, they become cool.</p><p>Instead we will waste another $huge\_amount dollars on some lame education effort only to have the kids still want to be Kobe Bryant, or Dr. Dre.</p></div><p>I think this post is the one closest to a solution of the problem. When scientific research receives the recognition it deserves, with massive amounts of cash and fame, you'll see more people interested in it. Treat scientists like pro footballers or basketball players, and watch things change to the better, scientific output skyrocket and humanity profiting in a big way.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Massive cash awards to US scientists .
These kids choose not to go into science because it is not cool .
Why is it not cool ?
Lots of hardwork and small incomes .
If you give scientists boat loads of money , they become cool.Instead we will waste another $ huge \ _amount dollars on some lame education effort only to have the kids still want to be Kobe Bryant , or Dr. Dre.I think this post is the one closest to a solution of the problem .
When scientific research receives the recognition it deserves , with massive amounts of cash and fame , you 'll see more people interested in it .
Treat scientists like pro footballers or basketball players , and watch things change to the better , scientific output skyrocket and humanity profiting in a big way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Massive cash awards to US scientists.
These kids choose not to go into science because it is not cool.
Why is it not cool?
Lots of hardwork and small incomes.
If you give scientists boat loads of money, they become cool.Instead we will waste another $huge\_amount dollars on some lame education effort only to have the kids still want to be Kobe Bryant, or Dr. Dre.I think this post is the one closest to a solution of the problem.
When scientific research receives the recognition it deserves, with massive amounts of cash and fame, you'll see more people interested in it.
Treat scientists like pro footballers or basketball players, and watch things change to the better, scientific output skyrocket and humanity profiting in a big way.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205940</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207490</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>CannonballHead</author>
	<datestamp>1258976880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Is it really necessary to have 8 years of education to become the equivalent of an organic engineer (doctor)? No.</p></div><p>Ummm... says who?  Personally, I like the idea of having my doctor know what he's talking about.  Not just "Oh, I saw this done once," but actually be able to explain to me what muscles he's going to be working on, what they have to do with my eye, why the curvature of the lens is important, etc.  There's a <i>ton</i> of information there.  And it's not like you can section one part of the body off, it's very helpful to know about the entire thing.</p><p>But hey, if you want undereducated doctors, feel free to go to surgeons in another part of the world.  Hospitals and American-educated (and Indian, to some extent, I guess) doctors frequently complain about foreign-educated doctors.  They don't know as much, they are somewhat careless, and their English is hard to understand (hehe).  No, not a slam against all non-Americans... but I think American medical education is very good.  Costly?  Yup.  But very good.  Which is why every rich person in the world goes to an American university to get care.  Ok, over-generalization, but<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....</p><p>Medical education is a huge deal.  And I'm willing to pay for a perhaps over-qualified doctor.</p><p>Otherwise you get a double standard.  Yeah, you can solder and debug a circuit card... but what if that circuit card was irreplaceable and if you messed up your soldering <i>you would die on the spot</i>.  Do you think you'd like to have a qualified, if not MASSIVELY OVERQUALIFIED person do it?  And pay extra for it?  Or would you still go out and hire the cheapest guy who can say "Oh yeah, I've been soldering for years now.  So, what does this circuit board do, again?  Why can't you just get a new one?"</p><p>Not a direct analogy, but seriously... when you are touching my eyes, my hearts, my lungs, my kidneys... I want you to be pretty qualified, educated, and skilled.  And I'm willing to pay extra for that.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is it really necessary to have 8 years of education to become the equivalent of an organic engineer ( doctor ) ?
No.Ummm... says who ?
Personally , I like the idea of having my doctor know what he 's talking about .
Not just " Oh , I saw this done once , " but actually be able to explain to me what muscles he 's going to be working on , what they have to do with my eye , why the curvature of the lens is important , etc .
There 's a ton of information there .
And it 's not like you can section one part of the body off , it 's very helpful to know about the entire thing.But hey , if you want undereducated doctors , feel free to go to surgeons in another part of the world .
Hospitals and American-educated ( and Indian , to some extent , I guess ) doctors frequently complain about foreign-educated doctors .
They do n't know as much , they are somewhat careless , and their English is hard to understand ( hehe ) .
No , not a slam against all non-Americans... but I think American medical education is very good .
Costly ? Yup .
But very good .
Which is why every rich person in the world goes to an American university to get care .
Ok , over-generalization , but ....Medical education is a huge deal .
And I 'm willing to pay for a perhaps over-qualified doctor.Otherwise you get a double standard .
Yeah , you can solder and debug a circuit card... but what if that circuit card was irreplaceable and if you messed up your soldering you would die on the spot .
Do you think you 'd like to have a qualified , if not MASSIVELY OVERQUALIFIED person do it ?
And pay extra for it ?
Or would you still go out and hire the cheapest guy who can say " Oh yeah , I 've been soldering for years now .
So , what does this circuit board do , again ?
Why ca n't you just get a new one ?
" Not a direct analogy , but seriously... when you are touching my eyes , my hearts , my lungs , my kidneys... I want you to be pretty qualified , educated , and skilled .
And I 'm willing to pay extra for that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is it really necessary to have 8 years of education to become the equivalent of an organic engineer (doctor)?
No.Ummm... says who?
Personally, I like the idea of having my doctor know what he's talking about.
Not just "Oh, I saw this done once," but actually be able to explain to me what muscles he's going to be working on, what they have to do with my eye, why the curvature of the lens is important, etc.
There's a ton of information there.
And it's not like you can section one part of the body off, it's very helpful to know about the entire thing.But hey, if you want undereducated doctors, feel free to go to surgeons in another part of the world.
Hospitals and American-educated (and Indian, to some extent, I guess) doctors frequently complain about foreign-educated doctors.
They don't know as much, they are somewhat careless, and their English is hard to understand (hehe).
No, not a slam against all non-Americans... but I think American medical education is very good.
Costly?  Yup.
But very good.
Which is why every rich person in the world goes to an American university to get care.
Ok, over-generalization, but ....Medical education is a huge deal.
And I'm willing to pay for a perhaps over-qualified doctor.Otherwise you get a double standard.
Yeah, you can solder and debug a circuit card... but what if that circuit card was irreplaceable and if you messed up your soldering you would die on the spot.
Do you think you'd like to have a qualified, if not MASSIVELY OVERQUALIFIED person do it?
And pay extra for it?
Or would you still go out and hire the cheapest guy who can say "Oh yeah, I've been soldering for years now.
So, what does this circuit board do, again?
Why can't you just get a new one?
"Not a direct analogy, but seriously... when you are touching my eyes, my hearts, my lungs, my kidneys... I want you to be pretty qualified, educated, and skilled.
And I'm willing to pay extra for that.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206742</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206034</id>
	<title>Re:STEM...</title>
	<author>Pyrofool</author>
	<datestamp>1258971120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hey that's not quite fair,
My PSone is the reason I decided to go into CS. I've become disengaged with the complexities of character leveling and find CS much more interesting.
<br> <br>
Though I would blame the lack of interest in science and innovation the reason for our declination. I don't have to look farther than my own classes, which are filled with non-American students.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey that 's not quite fair , My PSone is the reason I decided to go into CS .
I 've become disengaged with the complexities of character leveling and find CS much more interesting .
Though I would blame the lack of interest in science and innovation the reason for our declination .
I do n't have to look farther than my own classes , which are filled with non-American students .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey that's not quite fair,
My PSone is the reason I decided to go into CS.
I've become disengaged with the complexities of character leveling and find CS much more interesting.
Though I would blame the lack of interest in science and innovation the reason for our declination.
I don't have to look farther than my own classes, which are filled with non-American students.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205906</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206020</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>clone53421</author>
	<datestamp>1258971060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Meh. Not necessarily... doctors and lawyers also are notorious for making big bucks, but that doesn&rsquo;t somehow induce millions of high-schoolers to sit around all summer engrossed in dry legal and medical tomes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Meh .
Not necessarily... doctors and lawyers also are notorious for making big bucks , but that doesn    t somehow induce millions of high-schoolers to sit around all summer engrossed in dry legal and medical tomes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Meh.
Not necessarily... doctors and lawyers also are notorious for making big bucks, but that doesn’t somehow induce millions of high-schoolers to sit around all summer engrossed in dry legal and medical tomes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205940</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206996</id>
	<title>Re:Translation: Massive Union Vote Buying Program</title>
	<author>rpillala</author>
	<datestamp>1258975140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't know I'm about as far left as it gets and I want innovation and self sufficiency for my students.  I'm not sure where you're getting all this.</p><p>Empty meaningless platitudes are not limited to the left.  <i>See also:</i> "We don't torture."  Besides that, the actual left (as opposed to your fantasy version) is only disappointed insofar as Mr. Obama has not gone far enough to repudiate the transgressions of the previous administration as re: state secrets privilege, multi-tier justice system, national security theater.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know I 'm about as far left as it gets and I want innovation and self sufficiency for my students .
I 'm not sure where you 're getting all this.Empty meaningless platitudes are not limited to the left .
See also : " We do n't torture .
" Besides that , the actual left ( as opposed to your fantasy version ) is only disappointed insofar as Mr. Obama has not gone far enough to repudiate the transgressions of the previous administration as re : state secrets privilege , multi-tier justice system , national security theater .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know I'm about as far left as it gets and I want innovation and self sufficiency for my students.
I'm not sure where you're getting all this.Empty meaningless platitudes are not limited to the left.
See also: "We don't torture.
"  Besides that, the actual left (as opposed to your fantasy version) is only disappointed insofar as Mr. Obama has not gone far enough to repudiate the transgressions of the previous administration as re: state secrets privilege, multi-tier justice system, national security theater.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206572</id>
	<title>Re:Government intrusion and control isn't innovati</title>
	<author>Dunbal</author>
	<datestamp>1258973340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hah. Your post got modded -1 Flamebait on a "nerd" site. Buddy, I think you were just talking way over their heads. At the end of the day I think all that's left here on slashdot are Microsoft shills, Apple fanboys, and creationist trolls. Well at least there's one other thinker here...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hah .
Your post got modded -1 Flamebait on a " nerd " site .
Buddy , I think you were just talking way over their heads .
At the end of the day I think all that 's left here on slashdot are Microsoft shills , Apple fanboys , and creationist trolls .
Well at least there 's one other thinker here.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hah.
Your post got modded -1 Flamebait on a "nerd" site.
Buddy, I think you were just talking way over their heads.
At the end of the day I think all that's left here on slashdot are Microsoft shills, Apple fanboys, and creationist trolls.
Well at least there's one other thinker here...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206080</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206518</id>
	<title>Re:soundbite lessons as PSAs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258973160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>that's a great idea -- they could even use them to promote critical thinking on teh intarwebs liek : "think before you click that <a href="http://goat.cx/" title="goat.cx" rel="nofollow">link</a> [goat.cx]!<br> <br> <i>hold on, I've got an great idea for a jingle, brb!</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>that 's a great idea -- they could even use them to promote critical thinking on teh intarwebs liek : " think before you click that link [ goat.cx ] !
hold on , I 've got an great idea for a jingle , brb !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>that's a great idea -- they could even use them to promote critical thinking on teh intarwebs liek : "think before you click that link [goat.cx]!
hold on, I've got an great idea for a jingle, brb!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206040</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207020</id>
	<title>Re:Translation: Massive Union Vote Buying Program</title>
	<author>QuoteMstr</author>
	<datestamp>1258975260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wait --- let me get this straight: you're actually claiming that education is actually a <i>political ploy</i> to garner more support for the left? You're actually arguing that science education is a <i>bad</i> thing because it encourages parents to be lazy? Therefore we shouldn't teach kids, and that'll show them unions and pinko parents? Never mind that we're falling further and further behind other nations in science: the solution, on the planet you live on, is to teach <i>less</i> science.</p><p>You're arguing that your partisan gain is more important than the success of the next generation, and that it's all right to doom them to ignorance if it helps the GOP.</p><p>Get out of your chair, go sit in your hummer, and without leaving your garage, turn it on and listen to Mike Savage until you fall into a deep, permanent sleep. <b>You are a monster and a sociopath</b>. You have no place in society, and the rest of us would be better off without you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wait --- let me get this straight : you 're actually claiming that education is actually a political ploy to garner more support for the left ?
You 're actually arguing that science education is a bad thing because it encourages parents to be lazy ?
Therefore we should n't teach kids , and that 'll show them unions and pinko parents ?
Never mind that we 're falling further and further behind other nations in science : the solution , on the planet you live on , is to teach less science.You 're arguing that your partisan gain is more important than the success of the next generation , and that it 's all right to doom them to ignorance if it helps the GOP.Get out of your chair , go sit in your hummer , and without leaving your garage , turn it on and listen to Mike Savage until you fall into a deep , permanent sleep .
You are a monster and a sociopath .
You have no place in society , and the rest of us would be better off without you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wait --- let me get this straight: you're actually claiming that education is actually a political ploy to garner more support for the left?
You're actually arguing that science education is a bad thing because it encourages parents to be lazy?
Therefore we shouldn't teach kids, and that'll show them unions and pinko parents?
Never mind that we're falling further and further behind other nations in science: the solution, on the planet you live on, is to teach less science.You're arguing that your partisan gain is more important than the success of the next generation, and that it's all right to doom them to ignorance if it helps the GOP.Get out of your chair, go sit in your hummer, and without leaving your garage, turn it on and listen to Mike Savage until you fall into a deep, permanent sleep.
You are a monster and a sociopath.
You have no place in society, and the rest of us would be better off without you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208924</id>
	<title>Just give the money to the parents...</title>
	<author>Paul Fernhout</author>
	<datestamp>1258984620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As outlined here:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; "http://www.pdfernhout.net/towards-a-post-scarcity-new-york-state-of-mind.html"<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; <a href="http://www.pdfernhout.net/towards-a-post-scarcity-new-york-state-of-mind.html" title="pdfernhout.net">http://www.pdfernhout.net/towards-a-post-scarcity-new-york-state-of-mind.html</a> [pdfernhout.net]<br>"""<br>New York State current spends roughly 20,000 US dollars per schooled child per year to support the public school system. This essay suggests that the same amount of money be given directly to the family of each homeschooled child. Further, it suggests that eventually all parents would get this amount, as more and more families decide to homeschool because it is suddenly easier financially. It suggests why ultimately this will be a win/win situation for everyone involved (including parents, children, teachers, school staff, other people in the community, and even school administrators<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-) because ultimately local schools will grow into larger vibrant community learning centers open to anyone in the community and looking more like college campuses. New York State could try this plan incrementally in a few different school districts across the state as pilot programs to see how it works out. This may seem like an unlikely idea to be adopted at first, but at least it is a starting point for building a positive vision of the future for all children in all our communities. Like straightforward ideas such as Medicare-for-all, this is an easy solution to state, likely with broad popular support, but it may be a hard thing to get done politically for all sorts of reasons. It might take an enormous struggle to make such a change, and most homeschoolers rightfully may say they are better off focusing on teaching their own and ignoring the school system as much as possible, and letting schooled families make their own choices. Still, homeschoolers might find it interesting to think about this idea and how the straightforward nature of it calls into question many assumptions related to how compulsory public schooling is justified. Also, ultimately, the more people who homeschool, the easier it becomes, because there are more families close by with which to meet during the daytime (especially in rural areas). And sometime just knowing an alternative is possible can give one extra hope. Who would have predicted ten years back that NYS would have a governor who was legally blind and whose parents had been forced to change school districts just to get him the education he needed? So, there is always "the optimism of uncertainty", as historian Howard Zinn says. We don't know for sure what is possible and what is not.<br>"""</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As outlined here :     " http : //www.pdfernhout.net/towards-a-post-scarcity-new-york-state-of-mind.html "     http : //www.pdfernhout.net/towards-a-post-scarcity-new-york-state-of-mind.html [ pdfernhout.net ] " " " New York State current spends roughly 20,000 US dollars per schooled child per year to support the public school system .
This essay suggests that the same amount of money be given directly to the family of each homeschooled child .
Further , it suggests that eventually all parents would get this amount , as more and more families decide to homeschool because it is suddenly easier financially .
It suggests why ultimately this will be a win/win situation for everyone involved ( including parents , children , teachers , school staff , other people in the community , and even school administrators : - ) because ultimately local schools will grow into larger vibrant community learning centers open to anyone in the community and looking more like college campuses .
New York State could try this plan incrementally in a few different school districts across the state as pilot programs to see how it works out .
This may seem like an unlikely idea to be adopted at first , but at least it is a starting point for building a positive vision of the future for all children in all our communities .
Like straightforward ideas such as Medicare-for-all , this is an easy solution to state , likely with broad popular support , but it may be a hard thing to get done politically for all sorts of reasons .
It might take an enormous struggle to make such a change , and most homeschoolers rightfully may say they are better off focusing on teaching their own and ignoring the school system as much as possible , and letting schooled families make their own choices .
Still , homeschoolers might find it interesting to think about this idea and how the straightforward nature of it calls into question many assumptions related to how compulsory public schooling is justified .
Also , ultimately , the more people who homeschool , the easier it becomes , because there are more families close by with which to meet during the daytime ( especially in rural areas ) .
And sometime just knowing an alternative is possible can give one extra hope .
Who would have predicted ten years back that NYS would have a governor who was legally blind and whose parents had been forced to change school districts just to get him the education he needed ?
So , there is always " the optimism of uncertainty " , as historian Howard Zinn says .
We do n't know for sure what is possible and what is not .
" " "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As outlined here:
    "http://www.pdfernhout.net/towards-a-post-scarcity-new-york-state-of-mind.html"
    http://www.pdfernhout.net/towards-a-post-scarcity-new-york-state-of-mind.html [pdfernhout.net]"""New York State current spends roughly 20,000 US dollars per schooled child per year to support the public school system.
This essay suggests that the same amount of money be given directly to the family of each homeschooled child.
Further, it suggests that eventually all parents would get this amount, as more and more families decide to homeschool because it is suddenly easier financially.
It suggests why ultimately this will be a win/win situation for everyone involved (including parents, children, teachers, school staff, other people in the community, and even school administrators :-) because ultimately local schools will grow into larger vibrant community learning centers open to anyone in the community and looking more like college campuses.
New York State could try this plan incrementally in a few different school districts across the state as pilot programs to see how it works out.
This may seem like an unlikely idea to be adopted at first, but at least it is a starting point for building a positive vision of the future for all children in all our communities.
Like straightforward ideas such as Medicare-for-all, this is an easy solution to state, likely with broad popular support, but it may be a hard thing to get done politically for all sorts of reasons.
It might take an enormous struggle to make such a change, and most homeschoolers rightfully may say they are better off focusing on teaching their own and ignoring the school system as much as possible, and letting schooled families make their own choices.
Still, homeschoolers might find it interesting to think about this idea and how the straightforward nature of it calls into question many assumptions related to how compulsory public schooling is justified.
Also, ultimately, the more people who homeschool, the easier it becomes, because there are more families close by with which to meet during the daytime (especially in rural areas).
And sometime just knowing an alternative is possible can give one extra hope.
Who would have predicted ten years back that NYS would have a governor who was legally blind and whose parents had been forced to change school districts just to get him the education he needed?
So, there is always "the optimism of uncertainty", as historian Howard Zinn says.
We don't know for sure what is possible and what is not.
"""</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206080</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208858</id>
	<title>Re:Fantasy trumps science (almost) every time</title>
	<author>Eli Gottlieb</author>
	<datestamp>1258984200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, I'll just bugger off then since obviously, as a practicing Jew and a computer science undergrad hoping to go into research, I can't possibly exist.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , I 'll just bugger off then since obviously , as a practicing Jew and a computer science undergrad hoping to go into research , I ca n't possibly exist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, I'll just bugger off then since obviously, as a practicing Jew and a computer science undergrad hoping to go into research, I can't possibly exist.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206170</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206044</id>
	<title>stem cells</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258971180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We should set up small groups around the country to independently engage in the study of Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math... call them STEM Cells, and watch the right-wingers line up to ban funding them, on reflex.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We should set up small groups around the country to independently engage in the study of Science , Technology , Engineering , and Math... call them STEM Cells , and watch the right-wingers line up to ban funding them , on reflex .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We should set up small groups around the country to independently engage in the study of Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math... call them STEM Cells, and watch the right-wingers line up to ban funding them, on reflex.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30210656</id>
	<title>You Make me Laugh</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259005080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the right-leaning among us actually believed that parents should be responsible, they would dispense with the bashing and actually start doing something that would actually make parents be responsible.  Instead, they encourage them to teach creationism, leave children with minimal knowledge of sex education, and fill their head with silly notions like how lowering taxes for the rich will solve all the world's problems.  The right also seems to forget that many students don't have the good fortune to actually have parents.  So presumably they believe that society is better off by leaving them uneducated.</p><p>At least the unions have been consistent and supportive of science education in this country, over the strong objections of many on the right,</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the right-leaning among us actually believed that parents should be responsible , they would dispense with the bashing and actually start doing something that would actually make parents be responsible .
Instead , they encourage them to teach creationism , leave children with minimal knowledge of sex education , and fill their head with silly notions like how lowering taxes for the rich will solve all the world 's problems .
The right also seems to forget that many students do n't have the good fortune to actually have parents .
So presumably they believe that society is better off by leaving them uneducated.At least the unions have been consistent and supportive of science education in this country , over the strong objections of many on the right,</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the right-leaning among us actually believed that parents should be responsible, they would dispense with the bashing and actually start doing something that would actually make parents be responsible.
Instead, they encourage them to teach creationism, leave children with minimal knowledge of sex education, and fill their head with silly notions like how lowering taxes for the rich will solve all the world's problems.
The right also seems to forget that many students don't have the good fortune to actually have parents.
So presumably they believe that society is better off by leaving them uneducated.At least the unions have been consistent and supportive of science education in this country, over the strong objections of many on the right,</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206068</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258971240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>h4rr4r hates black people</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>h4rr4r hates black people</tokentext>
<sentencetext>h4rr4r hates black people</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205940</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30211014</id>
	<title>Presumably you can substantiate your claims?</title>
	<author>ctid</author>
	<datestamp>1259054820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is one preposterous quote:</p><blockquote><div><p> <i>Since that time New Labour have lowered standards in education to the point where school leavers are now totally unemployable and near illiterate.</i></p></div> </blockquote><p>. This quote is rather contradicted by the next.</p><p>Here is another:</p><blockquote><div><p> <i>The UK education system renders most children unemployable and 20\% of youths between the age of 16 and 24 are currently out of work.</i></p></div> </blockquote><p>. Are you sure you mean "most"? Because the next sentence actually contradicts that.</p><p>Just exaggerating everything makes you look like an idiot.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is one preposterous quote : Since that time New Labour have lowered standards in education to the point where school leavers are now totally unemployable and near illiterate .
. This quote is rather contradicted by the next.Here is another : The UK education system renders most children unemployable and 20 \ % of youths between the age of 16 and 24 are currently out of work .
. Are you sure you mean " most " ?
Because the next sentence actually contradicts that.Just exaggerating everything makes you look like an idiot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is one preposterous quote: Since that time New Labour have lowered standards in education to the point where school leavers are now totally unemployable and near illiterate.
. This quote is rather contradicted by the next.Here is another: The UK education system renders most children unemployable and 20\% of youths between the age of 16 and 24 are currently out of work.
. Are you sure you mean "most"?
Because the next sentence actually contradicts that.Just exaggerating everything makes you look like an idiot.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207520</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30216856</id>
	<title>Re:Parents . . .</title>
	<author>Uberbah</author>
	<datestamp>1259091780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Another lame rationalization for government inaction.  Because a child is free to go fuck himself educationally if he's born to the wrong set of parents, or ones who are too busy working 60 hours a week to keep a roof over their heads and the family insured.</p><p>Yawn, yawn, yawn.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Another lame rationalization for government inaction .
Because a child is free to go fuck himself educationally if he 's born to the wrong set of parents , or ones who are too busy working 60 hours a week to keep a roof over their heads and the family insured.Yawn , yawn , yawn .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Another lame rationalization for government inaction.
Because a child is free to go fuck himself educationally if he's born to the wrong set of parents, or ones who are too busy working 60 hours a week to keep a roof over their heads and the family insured.Yawn, yawn, yawn.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206060</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30211162</id>
	<title>Re:If you pay them, they will come.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259057820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or, you know, people with priorities that are different from yours?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or , you know , people with priorities that are different from yours ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or, you know, people with priorities that are different from yours?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206262</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206168</id>
	<title>Red flag No. 1: Teacher unions like this plan</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258971660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The teacher unions complained loud and early about this plan. They pushed hard for (and eventually) got numerous changes to the original proposal.</p><p>Most of my kids' teachers have been good people generally interested in educating kids. The unions, on the other hand, are out of touch with the classroom and mostly interested in their own survival.</p><p>Sorry to be so cynical - and I only speak from personal experience - but I have yet to see the unions fight to get their way about something (tenure, testing methods, school hours, curriculum, etc.) and get a positive result in the end. And with this much money at stake...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The teacher unions complained loud and early about this plan .
They pushed hard for ( and eventually ) got numerous changes to the original proposal.Most of my kids ' teachers have been good people generally interested in educating kids .
The unions , on the other hand , are out of touch with the classroom and mostly interested in their own survival.Sorry to be so cynical - and I only speak from personal experience - but I have yet to see the unions fight to get their way about something ( tenure , testing methods , school hours , curriculum , etc .
) and get a positive result in the end .
And with this much money at stake.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The teacher unions complained loud and early about this plan.
They pushed hard for (and eventually) got numerous changes to the original proposal.Most of my kids' teachers have been good people generally interested in educating kids.
The unions, on the other hand, are out of touch with the classroom and mostly interested in their own survival.Sorry to be so cynical - and I only speak from personal experience - but I have yet to see the unions fight to get their way about something (tenure, testing methods, school hours, curriculum, etc.
) and get a positive result in the end.
And with this much money at stake...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207620</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258977420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nothing will work!!!!   - Because the government is only giving lip service.</p><p>Reduce taxes, tax incentives, reduced student loans (1\%), loan for forgiveness if you graduate with a science degree, no H1B1 etc.  - The tech schools would be overcrowded.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nothing will work ! ! ! !
- Because the government is only giving lip service.Reduce taxes , tax incentives , reduced student loans ( 1 \ % ) , loan for forgiveness if you graduate with a science degree , no H1B1 etc .
- The tech schools would be overcrowded .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nothing will work!!!!
- Because the government is only giving lip service.Reduce taxes, tax incentives, reduced student loans (1\%), loan for forgiveness if you graduate with a science degree, no H1B1 etc.
- The tech schools would be overcrowded.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30210608</id>
	<title>Re:Government intrusion and control isn't innovati</title>
	<author>turkeyfish</author>
	<datestamp>1259004300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sounds as if you are saying America should just abandon efforts to educate its citizens and leave progress in science and technology to those countries with highly developed governmental educational programs, such as the Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Taiwanese, Singaporeans, Europeans and Russians.</p><p>If Republicans get their way, it looks as if you will get your wish.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds as if you are saying America should just abandon efforts to educate its citizens and leave progress in science and technology to those countries with highly developed governmental educational programs , such as the Chinese , Japanese , Koreans , Taiwanese , Singaporeans , Europeans and Russians.If Republicans get their way , it looks as if you will get your wish .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds as if you are saying America should just abandon efforts to educate its citizens and leave progress in science and technology to those countries with highly developed governmental educational programs, such as the Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Taiwanese, Singaporeans, Europeans and Russians.If Republicans get their way, it looks as if you will get your wish.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206080</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206108</id>
	<title>Money awards are not the solution</title>
	<author>Shivetya</author>
	<datestamp>1258971420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>the solution is to make science, let alone education cool.  As my girlfriend puts it, convincing her child that its not acting white, its about not having to rely on others, its about being proud of yourself, its about being able to take care of yourself and others.</p><p>Focusing on money is what gets us into the mess we are in.  The problem with much of education today is that children don't see the investment being worth while because even they can see people getting something for nothing.  They have this tv mentality that nothing should be hard.  Pride in self.  Many science oriented jobs pay well, the problem is that they may not pay well initially.</p><p>Its just like sports.  The best get paid the big bucks.  They focus on it, they have an affinity for it, they have the drive to keep pushing.  You don't wake up one day and graduate one day and end up in wealth.  You earn it through hard work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>the solution is to make science , let alone education cool .
As my girlfriend puts it , convincing her child that its not acting white , its about not having to rely on others , its about being proud of yourself , its about being able to take care of yourself and others.Focusing on money is what gets us into the mess we are in .
The problem with much of education today is that children do n't see the investment being worth while because even they can see people getting something for nothing .
They have this tv mentality that nothing should be hard .
Pride in self .
Many science oriented jobs pay well , the problem is that they may not pay well initially.Its just like sports .
The best get paid the big bucks .
They focus on it , they have an affinity for it , they have the drive to keep pushing .
You do n't wake up one day and graduate one day and end up in wealth .
You earn it through hard work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the solution is to make science, let alone education cool.
As my girlfriend puts it, convincing her child that its not acting white, its about not having to rely on others, its about being proud of yourself, its about being able to take care of yourself and others.Focusing on money is what gets us into the mess we are in.
The problem with much of education today is that children don't see the investment being worth while because even they can see people getting something for nothing.
They have this tv mentality that nothing should be hard.
Pride in self.
Many science oriented jobs pay well, the problem is that they may not pay well initially.Its just like sports.
The best get paid the big bucks.
They focus on it, they have an affinity for it, they have the drive to keep pushing.
You don't wake up one day and graduate one day and end up in wealth.
You earn it through hard work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205940</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208260</id>
	<title>Oh please, both sides hate science</title>
	<author>NotSoHeavyD3</author>
	<datestamp>1258980540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I mean you say creationist you know it's a right wing kook. You hear about a person being anti-chemical or pro Naturopathy you just have to know they're a left wing idiot. Hell, both ends hate vaccines which is disturbing but true. Really both sides "use" science when they can and abuse it when it suits their purposes. (Ok, so I'm jaded. It's bad enough to have creationsts but then lefties saying how great evolution is and then basically quoting Lamarck.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>I mean you say creationist you know it 's a right wing kook .
You hear about a person being anti-chemical or pro Naturopathy you just have to know they 're a left wing idiot .
Hell , both ends hate vaccines which is disturbing but true .
Really both sides " use " science when they can and abuse it when it suits their purposes .
( Ok , so I 'm jaded .
It 's bad enough to have creationsts but then lefties saying how great evolution is and then basically quoting Lamarck .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I mean you say creationist you know it's a right wing kook.
You hear about a person being anti-chemical or pro Naturopathy you just have to know they're a left wing idiot.
Hell, both ends hate vaccines which is disturbing but true.
Really both sides "use" science when they can and abuse it when it suits their purposes.
(Ok, so I'm jaded.
It's bad enough to have creationsts but then lefties saying how great evolution is and then basically quoting Lamarck.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206954</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205928</id>
	<title>In Other News....</title>
	<author>Entropy98</author>
	<datestamp>1258970640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nasa's budget slashed once again....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nasa 's budget slashed once again... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nasa's budget slashed once again....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206242</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>megamerican</author>
	<datestamp>1258972020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Massive cash awards to US scientists. These kids choose not to go into science because it is not cool. Why is it not cool? Lots of hardwork and small incomes. If you give scientists boat loads of money, they become cool.</p><p>Instead we will waste another $huge\_amount dollars on some lame education effort only to have the kids still want to be Kobe Bryant, or Dr. Dre.</p></div><p>You're funny. They already do this in who they funnel money to for grants. This is why you see scientists in climate research doing everything they can to squelch opposing views, block FOIA requests and most likely fudge data. If this "climate gate" shows anything is that there are way too many scientists who hold their views, reputation and grant money much higher than the scientific process. Give scientists more money and you're only going to encourage psychopaths who are in it for money.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>M,</p><p>This is truly awful. GRL has gone downhill rapidly in recent years.</p><p>I think the decline began before Saiers. I have had some unhelpful dealings with him recently with regard to a paper Sarah and I have on glaciers &mdash; it was well received by the referees, and so is in the publication pipeline. However, I got the impression that Saiers was trying to keep it from being published.</p><p><b>Proving bad behavior here is very difficult. If you think that Saiers is in the greenhouse skeptics camp, then, if we can find documentary evidence of this, we could go through official AGU channels to get him ousted. Even this would be difficult.</b></p><p>How different is the GRL paper from the Nature paper? Did the authors counter any of the criticisms? My experience with Douglass is that the identical (bar format changes) paper to one previously rejected was submitted to GRL.</p><p>T.</p></div><p> <a href="http://www.corbettreport.com/articles/20091120\_cru\_hacked.htm" title="corbettreport.com">http://www.corbettreport.com/articles/20091120\_cru\_hacked.htm</a> [corbettreport.com]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Massive cash awards to US scientists .
These kids choose not to go into science because it is not cool .
Why is it not cool ?
Lots of hardwork and small incomes .
If you give scientists boat loads of money , they become cool.Instead we will waste another $ huge \ _amount dollars on some lame education effort only to have the kids still want to be Kobe Bryant , or Dr. Dre.You 're funny .
They already do this in who they funnel money to for grants .
This is why you see scientists in climate research doing everything they can to squelch opposing views , block FOIA requests and most likely fudge data .
If this " climate gate " shows anything is that there are way too many scientists who hold their views , reputation and grant money much higher than the scientific process .
Give scientists more money and you 're only going to encourage psychopaths who are in it for money.M,This is truly awful .
GRL has gone downhill rapidly in recent years.I think the decline began before Saiers .
I have had some unhelpful dealings with him recently with regard to a paper Sarah and I have on glaciers    it was well received by the referees , and so is in the publication pipeline .
However , I got the impression that Saiers was trying to keep it from being published.Proving bad behavior here is very difficult .
If you think that Saiers is in the greenhouse skeptics camp , then , if we can find documentary evidence of this , we could go through official AGU channels to get him ousted .
Even this would be difficult.How different is the GRL paper from the Nature paper ?
Did the authors counter any of the criticisms ?
My experience with Douglass is that the identical ( bar format changes ) paper to one previously rejected was submitted to GRL.T .
http : //www.corbettreport.com/articles/20091120 \ _cru \ _hacked.htm [ corbettreport.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Massive cash awards to US scientists.
These kids choose not to go into science because it is not cool.
Why is it not cool?
Lots of hardwork and small incomes.
If you give scientists boat loads of money, they become cool.Instead we will waste another $huge\_amount dollars on some lame education effort only to have the kids still want to be Kobe Bryant, or Dr. Dre.You're funny.
They already do this in who they funnel money to for grants.
This is why you see scientists in climate research doing everything they can to squelch opposing views, block FOIA requests and most likely fudge data.
If this "climate gate" shows anything is that there are way too many scientists who hold their views, reputation and grant money much higher than the scientific process.
Give scientists more money and you're only going to encourage psychopaths who are in it for money.M,This is truly awful.
GRL has gone downhill rapidly in recent years.I think the decline began before Saiers.
I have had some unhelpful dealings with him recently with regard to a paper Sarah and I have on glaciers — it was well received by the referees, and so is in the publication pipeline.
However, I got the impression that Saiers was trying to keep it from being published.Proving bad behavior here is very difficult.
If you think that Saiers is in the greenhouse skeptics camp, then, if we can find documentary evidence of this, we could go through official AGU channels to get him ousted.
Even this would be difficult.How different is the GRL paper from the Nature paper?
Did the authors counter any of the criticisms?
My experience with Douglass is that the identical (bar format changes) paper to one previously rejected was submitted to GRL.T.
http://www.corbettreport.com/articles/20091120\_cru\_hacked.htm [corbettreport.com]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205940</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30211354</id>
	<title>Re:bucks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259061840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hahahaha. Like any women is going to be intrested in a guy that does research work. She will probably talk about beeing intrested, but in the end she will just get bored and leave for the 'exciting' guy who makes her feel special.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hahahaha .
Like any women is going to be intrested in a guy that does research work .
She will probably talk about beeing intrested , but in the end she will just get bored and leave for the 'exciting ' guy who makes her feel special .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hahahaha.
Like any women is going to be intrested in a guy that does research work.
She will probably talk about beeing intrested, but in the end she will just get bored and leave for the 'exciting' guy who makes her feel special.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206812</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208884</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers really are the problem</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258984320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you and she are smart, you'll let water roll off a duck's back and qualify for the partial pension and run! I am shocked she could even find a business teaching position. Business teaching is dead, so is industrial tech. Must have had a professor with contacts that took a shine to her. Yep, those backdoor to teaching programs are popular with media and "only" university Ed. profs that need to show work product and results.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you and she are smart , you 'll let water roll off a duck 's back and qualify for the partial pension and run !
I am shocked she could even find a business teaching position .
Business teaching is dead , so is industrial tech .
Must have had a professor with contacts that took a shine to her .
Yep , those backdoor to teaching programs are popular with media and " only " university Ed .
profs that need to show work product and results .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you and she are smart, you'll let water roll off a duck's back and qualify for the partial pension and run!
I am shocked she could even find a business teaching position.
Business teaching is dead, so is industrial tech.
Must have had a professor with contacts that took a shine to her.
Yep, those backdoor to teaching programs are popular with media and "only" university Ed.
profs that need to show work product and results.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207112</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206266</id>
	<title>Re:Fantasy trumps science (almost) every time</title>
	<author>halivar</author>
	<datestamp>1258972080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, like Isaac Newton. Or Renee Descartes. Ridiculous fabulators, the whole lot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , like Isaac Newton .
Or Renee Descartes .
Ridiculous fabulators , the whole lot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, like Isaac Newton.
Or Renee Descartes.
Ridiculous fabulators, the whole lot.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206170</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30209356</id>
	<title>Re:If you pay them, they will come.</title>
	<author>apoc.famine</author>
	<datestamp>1258988400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's partially true. <br>
&nbsp; <br>It depends on what you study, and where you study it. If you study Biology at a small university, you'll be one of a million biologists looking for work which doesn't involve biology. <br>
&nbsp; <br>For the last five or so years, I've been saying that what we need is someone (Obama, but that's a pipe dream) to dump a couple hundred billion into renewable energy projects. Compared to what we spend on everything else, it's a drop in a bucket. <br>
&nbsp; <br>But the results? At bare minimum, it puts a science or engineering degree at a premium. That pumps more people through college, increases our overall education level, and stimulates the economy as people invest into this. On the chance that it actually produces some really good new technologies, it helps secure our energy future, and gives us a technological leap over other countries. It also gives us a commercial export for the first time in a very, very long time. <br>
&nbsp; <br>That's my dream. My back-up plan is to move to some Northern European country.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's partially true .
  It depends on what you study , and where you study it .
If you study Biology at a small university , you 'll be one of a million biologists looking for work which does n't involve biology .
  For the last five or so years , I 've been saying that what we need is someone ( Obama , but that 's a pipe dream ) to dump a couple hundred billion into renewable energy projects .
Compared to what we spend on everything else , it 's a drop in a bucket .
  But the results ?
At bare minimum , it puts a science or engineering degree at a premium .
That pumps more people through college , increases our overall education level , and stimulates the economy as people invest into this .
On the chance that it actually produces some really good new technologies , it helps secure our energy future , and gives us a technological leap over other countries .
It also gives us a commercial export for the first time in a very , very long time .
  That 's my dream .
My back-up plan is to move to some Northern European country .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's partially true.
  It depends on what you study, and where you study it.
If you study Biology at a small university, you'll be one of a million biologists looking for work which doesn't involve biology.
  For the last five or so years, I've been saying that what we need is someone (Obama, but that's a pipe dream) to dump a couple hundred billion into renewable energy projects.
Compared to what we spend on everything else, it's a drop in a bucket.
  But the results?
At bare minimum, it puts a science or engineering degree at a premium.
That pumps more people through college, increases our overall education level, and stimulates the economy as people invest into this.
On the chance that it actually produces some really good new technologies, it helps secure our energy future, and gives us a technological leap over other countries.
It also gives us a commercial export for the first time in a very, very long time.
  That's my dream.
My back-up plan is to move to some Northern European country.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206262</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30216406</id>
	<title>Re:Translation: Massive Union Vote Buying Program</title>
	<author>Uberbah</author>
	<datestamp>1259089560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So how are you going to protect teachers from bad parents WITHOUT unions?  Upstanding Member of the Community and Churchgoer Mrs. Shrew bitches to the PTA that Mr. Stark gave her little angel Johnny an F for the semster and detention after school.  Mr. Stark gets demoted, suspended, or even fired - even though Johnny earned his F and his detention.  Funny how conservatives never see the dichotomy between wanting teachers to be firm and demanding of students while also wanting the elimination of teacher's unions.</p><p>The other problem with your storyline is that there is nothing - nada, zip, zero - about unions that prevents people for being fired for cause.  Yes, I'm sure you can rattle off some cute anecdotes about some bad teacher that wasn't fired, but if you're honest with yourself, you can also rattle off some bad coworkers that have managed to keep their jobs.  But I bet you don't run around whining how private businesses are bad and must be eliminated....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So how are you going to protect teachers from bad parents WITHOUT unions ?
Upstanding Member of the Community and Churchgoer Mrs. Shrew bitches to the PTA that Mr. Stark gave her little angel Johnny an F for the semster and detention after school .
Mr. Stark gets demoted , suspended , or even fired - even though Johnny earned his F and his detention .
Funny how conservatives never see the dichotomy between wanting teachers to be firm and demanding of students while also wanting the elimination of teacher 's unions.The other problem with your storyline is that there is nothing - nada , zip , zero - about unions that prevents people for being fired for cause .
Yes , I 'm sure you can rattle off some cute anecdotes about some bad teacher that was n't fired , but if you 're honest with yourself , you can also rattle off some bad coworkers that have managed to keep their jobs .
But I bet you do n't run around whining how private businesses are bad and must be eliminated... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So how are you going to protect teachers from bad parents WITHOUT unions?
Upstanding Member of the Community and Churchgoer Mrs. Shrew bitches to the PTA that Mr. Stark gave her little angel Johnny an F for the semster and detention after school.
Mr. Stark gets demoted, suspended, or even fired - even though Johnny earned his F and his detention.
Funny how conservatives never see the dichotomy between wanting teachers to be firm and demanding of students while also wanting the elimination of teacher's unions.The other problem with your storyline is that there is nothing - nada, zip, zero - about unions that prevents people for being fired for cause.
Yes, I'm sure you can rattle off some cute anecdotes about some bad teacher that wasn't fired, but if you're honest with yourself, you can also rattle off some bad coworkers that have managed to keep their jobs.
But I bet you don't run around whining how private businesses are bad and must be eliminated....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30209126</id>
	<title>Re:Red flag No. 1: Teacher unions like this plan</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258986420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Enough bitching about the teachers union. The only reason your children's teachers are able to teach is because the unions keep politically motivated "I am on the school board so I can get even with the teacher who gave my child a B" school boards and grossly incompetent administrators at bay. How you can claim the unions are in it for the money, when the union reps are teachers as well. Considering the highest paid teacher, who is also a union rep, in Missouri gets paid less than a garbage truck driver any claim that the union is in it for the money points out how ignorant you are</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Enough bitching about the teachers union .
The only reason your children 's teachers are able to teach is because the unions keep politically motivated " I am on the school board so I can get even with the teacher who gave my child a B " school boards and grossly incompetent administrators at bay .
How you can claim the unions are in it for the money , when the union reps are teachers as well .
Considering the highest paid teacher , who is also a union rep , in Missouri gets paid less than a garbage truck driver any claim that the union is in it for the money points out how ignorant you are</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Enough bitching about the teachers union.
The only reason your children's teachers are able to teach is because the unions keep politically motivated "I am on the school board so I can get even with the teacher who gave my child a B" school boards and grossly incompetent administrators at bay.
How you can claim the unions are in it for the money, when the union reps are teachers as well.
Considering the highest paid teacher, who is also a union rep, in Missouri gets paid less than a garbage truck driver any claim that the union is in it for the money points out how ignorant you are</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206168</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208460</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>Eli Gottlieb</author>
	<datestamp>1258981560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Except for the wasting boatloads of cash part - I'd say that's a good thing. Because that means the kids that grow up to be scientists do so because they want to be scientists rather than because it is cool. Real science is hard, dull, and painfully boring detail work - except to those with an interest in and a passion for it.</p></div><p>Well then how about instead of trying to make science "cool" (point: "cool" means it carries wealth and sex appeal) we instead produce a culture that values science and intellect in the first place so that not so many of those youngsters with the capacities and passions to become scientists or engineers wind up deciding that doctor, lawyer, or politician will provide a better future?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Except for the wasting boatloads of cash part - I 'd say that 's a good thing .
Because that means the kids that grow up to be scientists do so because they want to be scientists rather than because it is cool .
Real science is hard , dull , and painfully boring detail work - except to those with an interest in and a passion for it.Well then how about instead of trying to make science " cool " ( point : " cool " means it carries wealth and sex appeal ) we instead produce a culture that values science and intellect in the first place so that not so many of those youngsters with the capacities and passions to become scientists or engineers wind up deciding that doctor , lawyer , or politician will provide a better future ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except for the wasting boatloads of cash part - I'd say that's a good thing.
Because that means the kids that grow up to be scientists do so because they want to be scientists rather than because it is cool.
Real science is hard, dull, and painfully boring detail work - except to those with an interest in and a passion for it.Well then how about instead of trying to make science "cool" (point: "cool" means it carries wealth and sex appeal) we instead produce a culture that values science and intellect in the first place so that not so many of those youngsters with the capacities and passions to become scientists or engineers wind up deciding that doctor, lawyer, or politician will provide a better future?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30211378</id>
	<title>Re:Education and Equality Don't Mix</title>
	<author>drsquare</author>
	<datestamp>1259062260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Like New Labour Obama is obsessed with "Equality for all"</p></div></blockquote><p>New Labour don't believe in equality for all.</p><p>That's why they send their kids to private schools, introduce tuition fees, and degrade state schools so only the priviledged can get a decent education.</p><p>That's why Tony Blair built a property portfolio worth tens of millions, whilst blocking the creation of new houses for the rest of us.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Like New Labour Obama is obsessed with " Equality for all " New Labour do n't believe in equality for all.That 's why they send their kids to private schools , introduce tuition fees , and degrade state schools so only the priviledged can get a decent education.That 's why Tony Blair built a property portfolio worth tens of millions , whilst blocking the creation of new houses for the rest of us .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Like New Labour Obama is obsessed with "Equality for all"New Labour don't believe in equality for all.That's why they send their kids to private schools, introduce tuition fees, and degrade state schools so only the priviledged can get a decent education.That's why Tony Blair built a property portfolio worth tens of millions, whilst blocking the creation of new houses for the rest of us.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207520</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206026</id>
	<title>good in theory</title>
	<author>bcong</author>
	<datestamp>1258971120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The problems that exist in the world today cannot be solved by the level of thinking that created them. - Albert Einstein


As someone who played with their parent's chemistry set as a kid, and grew up fascinated by science and technology...I hope this works out</htmltext>
<tokenext>The problems that exist in the world today can not be solved by the level of thinking that created them .
- Albert Einstein As someone who played with their parent 's chemistry set as a kid , and grew up fascinated by science and technology...I hope this works out</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problems that exist in the world today cannot be solved by the level of thinking that created them.
- Albert Einstein


As someone who played with their parent's chemistry set as a kid, and grew up fascinated by science and technology...I hope this works out</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207740</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers really are the problem</title>
	<author>EmagGeek</author>
	<datestamp>1258977960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have subbed part time before, and as someone with a Masters in an engineering discipline, students often found that I had better grasp of the material than their normal science and math teachers did. It got to the point that the full time teachers would do anything to stab me in the back.</p><p>Teachers in the US are just another thuggish arm of big labor whose sole purpose is to lock qualified people out of education to help maintain the "victim" status and to keep that federal and state money pouring in.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have subbed part time before , and as someone with a Masters in an engineering discipline , students often found that I had better grasp of the material than their normal science and math teachers did .
It got to the point that the full time teachers would do anything to stab me in the back.Teachers in the US are just another thuggish arm of big labor whose sole purpose is to lock qualified people out of education to help maintain the " victim " status and to keep that federal and state money pouring in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have subbed part time before, and as someone with a Masters in an engineering discipline, students often found that I had better grasp of the material than their normal science and math teachers did.
It got to the point that the full time teachers would do anything to stab me in the back.Teachers in the US are just another thuggish arm of big labor whose sole purpose is to lock qualified people out of education to help maintain the "victim" status and to keep that federal and state money pouring in.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207112</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30211224</id>
	<title>Re:soundbite lessons as PSAs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259058720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Patronizing your population by showing them stupid little video's isn't going to solve the problem.</p><p>Getting people interested in science in the first place, does. For that to happen, science needs to both be:</p><p>1) Well paid, and<br>2) Have high social status.</p><p>It'll have to be done with tax money, as science != profitable in most cases, so companies won't be interested.</p><p>IMHO using tax money for science would be one of the best ways to spend it, as the results benefit everyone and the science may well not happen without it. Having to wait until some rich benefactor or charity lines up to fund basic science that isn't profitable, isn't really the best way to promote stuff actually getting done.</p><p>Then again, funding is still no guarantee of anything, as it seems to me that most scientific discoveries were made by people who were genuinely interested in their subject of choice (Darwin, Tesla, Gauss, etc.), and weren't primarily in it for money - if they got any it was merely a bonus. Although I suppose that says nothing about social status... I suspect that THAT is important for just about everyone. And american anti-intellectualism ensures that scientists won't be getting any of that over there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Patronizing your population by showing them stupid little video 's is n't going to solve the problem.Getting people interested in science in the first place , does .
For that to happen , science needs to both be : 1 ) Well paid , and2 ) Have high social status.It 'll have to be done with tax money , as science ! = profitable in most cases , so companies wo n't be interested.IMHO using tax money for science would be one of the best ways to spend it , as the results benefit everyone and the science may well not happen without it .
Having to wait until some rich benefactor or charity lines up to fund basic science that is n't profitable , is n't really the best way to promote stuff actually getting done.Then again , funding is still no guarantee of anything , as it seems to me that most scientific discoveries were made by people who were genuinely interested in their subject of choice ( Darwin , Tesla , Gauss , etc .
) , and were n't primarily in it for money - if they got any it was merely a bonus .
Although I suppose that says nothing about social status... I suspect that THAT is important for just about everyone .
And american anti-intellectualism ensures that scientists wo n't be getting any of that over there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Patronizing your population by showing them stupid little video's isn't going to solve the problem.Getting people interested in science in the first place, does.
For that to happen, science needs to both be:1) Well paid, and2) Have high social status.It'll have to be done with tax money, as science != profitable in most cases, so companies won't be interested.IMHO using tax money for science would be one of the best ways to spend it, as the results benefit everyone and the science may well not happen without it.
Having to wait until some rich benefactor or charity lines up to fund basic science that isn't profitable, isn't really the best way to promote stuff actually getting done.Then again, funding is still no guarantee of anything, as it seems to me that most scientific discoveries were made by people who were genuinely interested in their subject of choice (Darwin, Tesla, Gauss, etc.
), and weren't primarily in it for money - if they got any it was merely a bonus.
Although I suppose that says nothing about social status... I suspect that THAT is important for just about everyone.
And american anti-intellectualism ensures that scientists won't be getting any of that over there.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206040</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206096</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>DerekLyons</author>
	<datestamp>1258971420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Massive cash awards to US scientists. These kids choose not to go into science because it is not cool. Why is it not cool? Lots of hardwork and small incomes.</p><p>Instead we will waste another $huge\_amount dollars on some lame education effort only to have the kids still want to be Kobe Bryant, or Dr. Dre.</p></div></blockquote><p>Except for the wasting boatloads of cash part - I'd say that's a good thing.  Because that means the kids that grow up to be scientists do so <i>because they want to be scientists rather than because it is cool</i>.  Real science is hard, dull, and painfully boring detail work - except to those with an interest in and a passion for it.<br>
&nbsp; <br>Science and society are much better off if we filter out those who can't hack it as early as possible.<br>
&nbsp; </p><blockquote><div><p>If you give scientists boat loads of money, they become cool.</p></div></blockquote><p>MBA's, lawyers, web developers...  all have been cool, and all have made (at times) boatloads of money.  But I don't think society or those fields are any better off for flooding those fields with folks in search of the pot 'o gold.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Massive cash awards to US scientists .
These kids choose not to go into science because it is not cool .
Why is it not cool ?
Lots of hardwork and small incomes.Instead we will waste another $ huge \ _amount dollars on some lame education effort only to have the kids still want to be Kobe Bryant , or Dr. Dre.Except for the wasting boatloads of cash part - I 'd say that 's a good thing .
Because that means the kids that grow up to be scientists do so because they want to be scientists rather than because it is cool .
Real science is hard , dull , and painfully boring detail work - except to those with an interest in and a passion for it .
  Science and society are much better off if we filter out those who ca n't hack it as early as possible .
  If you give scientists boat loads of money , they become cool.MBA 's , lawyers , web developers... all have been cool , and all have made ( at times ) boatloads of money .
But I do n't think society or those fields are any better off for flooding those fields with folks in search of the pot 'o gold .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Massive cash awards to US scientists.
These kids choose not to go into science because it is not cool.
Why is it not cool?
Lots of hardwork and small incomes.Instead we will waste another $huge\_amount dollars on some lame education effort only to have the kids still want to be Kobe Bryant, or Dr. Dre.Except for the wasting boatloads of cash part - I'd say that's a good thing.
Because that means the kids that grow up to be scientists do so because they want to be scientists rather than because it is cool.
Real science is hard, dull, and painfully boring detail work - except to those with an interest in and a passion for it.
  Science and society are much better off if we filter out those who can't hack it as early as possible.
  If you give scientists boat loads of money, they become cool.MBA's, lawyers, web developers...  all have been cool, and all have made (at times) boatloads of money.
But I don't think society or those fields are any better off for flooding those fields with folks in search of the pot 'o gold.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205940</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207026</id>
	<title>STEM is all being offshored anyway</title>
	<author>walterbyrd</author>
	<datestamp>1258975260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why go though all the time, money, and effort, just to be replaced by an H1B?</p><p>If Obama wants Americans to study STEM, he should see to it that they will have remunerative employment when they graduate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why go though all the time , money , and effort , just to be replaced by an H1B ? If Obama wants Americans to study STEM , he should see to it that they will have remunerative employment when they graduate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why go though all the time, money, and effort, just to be replaced by an H1B?If Obama wants Americans to study STEM, he should see to it that they will have remunerative employment when they graduate.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206382</id>
	<title>Translation: Massive Union Vote Buying Program</title>
	<author>ScentCone</author>
	<datestamp>1258972560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's just another way to sew up left-handed votes from the teachers' unions.
<br> <br>
The actual efficacy of science education is almost entirely driven by culture, and that's almost entirely driven by the way a kid is <i>raised</i>. He's going to be in a science classroom ready to thrive and learn and see the big picture, or <i>not</i> ready to - because of how his parents have armed him for a world view that takes it all rationally into account. Parents with no sense of wonder about science? Kids without one, too.
<br> <br>
How this administration thinks it's going to change the <i>culture</i> which sends kids to school - in a way that will make them happy sponges for science - even as it seeks to establish an entitlement Nanny State funded by borrowing money from countries where science (pure and applied) is <i>actually</i> valued and cultivated... no idea. But then, Obama has no idea, either. This is Community Organizing, around a slogan, at its classic best. Empty, meaningless platitudes that don't actually call on <i>parents</i> to actually do the hard work of hatching out and maintaining a curious, intellectually honest child.
<br> <br>
Why? Because the left's power comes from asserting that parents can't and shouldn't be responsible - that the state should be in charge of those young meat computers, instead. An administration that's all about lefty group-think and completely empty utterances about Hope and Change is not actually interested in a culture of innovative, self-sufficient thinkers operating in any sphere. The want a thin <i>layer</i> of academics calling the shots from the top, and lot of It-Took-A-Village kids raised to vote for a Nanny State to keep them employed and in power. This particular iniative is a joke, in the context of who's cheerleading for it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's just another way to sew up left-handed votes from the teachers ' unions .
The actual efficacy of science education is almost entirely driven by culture , and that 's almost entirely driven by the way a kid is raised .
He 's going to be in a science classroom ready to thrive and learn and see the big picture , or not ready to - because of how his parents have armed him for a world view that takes it all rationally into account .
Parents with no sense of wonder about science ?
Kids without one , too .
How this administration thinks it 's going to change the culture which sends kids to school - in a way that will make them happy sponges for science - even as it seeks to establish an entitlement Nanny State funded by borrowing money from countries where science ( pure and applied ) is actually valued and cultivated... no idea .
But then , Obama has no idea , either .
This is Community Organizing , around a slogan , at its classic best .
Empty , meaningless platitudes that do n't actually call on parents to actually do the hard work of hatching out and maintaining a curious , intellectually honest child .
Why ? Because the left 's power comes from asserting that parents ca n't and should n't be responsible - that the state should be in charge of those young meat computers , instead .
An administration that 's all about lefty group-think and completely empty utterances about Hope and Change is not actually interested in a culture of innovative , self-sufficient thinkers operating in any sphere .
The want a thin layer of academics calling the shots from the top , and lot of It-Took-A-Village kids raised to vote for a Nanny State to keep them employed and in power .
This particular iniative is a joke , in the context of who 's cheerleading for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's just another way to sew up left-handed votes from the teachers' unions.
The actual efficacy of science education is almost entirely driven by culture, and that's almost entirely driven by the way a kid is raised.
He's going to be in a science classroom ready to thrive and learn and see the big picture, or not ready to - because of how his parents have armed him for a world view that takes it all rationally into account.
Parents with no sense of wonder about science?
Kids without one, too.
How this administration thinks it's going to change the culture which sends kids to school - in a way that will make them happy sponges for science - even as it seeks to establish an entitlement Nanny State funded by borrowing money from countries where science (pure and applied) is actually valued and cultivated... no idea.
But then, Obama has no idea, either.
This is Community Organizing, around a slogan, at its classic best.
Empty, meaningless platitudes that don't actually call on parents to actually do the hard work of hatching out and maintaining a curious, intellectually honest child.
Why? Because the left's power comes from asserting that parents can't and shouldn't be responsible - that the state should be in charge of those young meat computers, instead.
An administration that's all about lefty group-think and completely empty utterances about Hope and Change is not actually interested in a culture of innovative, self-sufficient thinkers operating in any sphere.
The want a thin layer of academics calling the shots from the top, and lot of It-Took-A-Village kids raised to vote for a Nanny State to keep them employed and in power.
This particular iniative is a joke, in the context of who's cheerleading for it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206406</id>
	<title>Re:fired up, huh?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258972680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You seem to have been disentangled from normal space-time.  First, Enterprise was cancelled years ago.  Second, it's been a long time since the Texas collider has been considered "half-finished"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... nearly 2 decades.</p><p>More importantly, the US can never again be a leader in these areas, its simply not an achievable goal given the country's attitude and personal agendas.  Too many other countries (especially those 1st/3rd world types) have vastly better and cheaper education systems filled with young minds not distracted by toys, television and a sense of entitlement, attending in longer school days and school years, hungry for the opportunity that only education will bring, and they do so at a fantastic fraction of the cost.  In America, only the wealthy can afford the type of education needed to achieve this.  Meanwhile those in the know (hello<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.) spend their time pissing/moaning/whining about patent laws, copyright and the government (case in point) and then wait for somebody else to come along and do the hard work involved in actually fixing things.</p><p>Good luck with that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You seem to have been disentangled from normal space-time .
First , Enterprise was cancelled years ago .
Second , it 's been a long time since the Texas collider has been considered " half-finished " ... nearly 2 decades.More importantly , the US can never again be a leader in these areas , its simply not an achievable goal given the country 's attitude and personal agendas .
Too many other countries ( especially those 1st/3rd world types ) have vastly better and cheaper education systems filled with young minds not distracted by toys , television and a sense of entitlement , attending in longer school days and school years , hungry for the opportunity that only education will bring , and they do so at a fantastic fraction of the cost .
In America , only the wealthy can afford the type of education needed to achieve this .
Meanwhile those in the know ( hello / .
) spend their time pissing/moaning/whining about patent laws , copyright and the government ( case in point ) and then wait for somebody else to come along and do the hard work involved in actually fixing things.Good luck with that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You seem to have been disentangled from normal space-time.
First, Enterprise was cancelled years ago.
Second, it's been a long time since the Texas collider has been considered "half-finished" ... nearly 2 decades.More importantly, the US can never again be a leader in these areas, its simply not an achievable goal given the country's attitude and personal agendas.
Too many other countries (especially those 1st/3rd world types) have vastly better and cheaper education systems filled with young minds not distracted by toys, television and a sense of entitlement, attending in longer school days and school years, hungry for the opportunity that only education will bring, and they do so at a fantastic fraction of the cost.
In America, only the wealthy can afford the type of education needed to achieve this.
Meanwhile those in the know (hello /.
) spend their time pissing/moaning/whining about patent laws, copyright and the government (case in point) and then wait for somebody else to come along and do the hard work involved in actually fixing things.Good luck with that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205988</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205920</id>
	<title>Naming?</title>
	<author>Reason58</author>
	<datestamp>1258970640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wonder if the abbreviation if a jab at Bush's policy against stem research. Probably just coincidental.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder if the abbreviation if a jab at Bush 's policy against stem research .
Probably just coincidental .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder if the abbreviation if a jab at Bush's policy against stem research.
Probably just coincidental.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206182</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>h4rr4r</author>
	<datestamp>1258971780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, but lots of kids do want to be doctors and lawyers. Look at how many TV shows are based around doctors or lawyers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , but lots of kids do want to be doctors and lawyers .
Look at how many TV shows are based around doctors or lawyers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, but lots of kids do want to be doctors and lawyers.
Look at how many TV shows are based around doctors or lawyers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206020</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206732</id>
	<title>Re:bucks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258973940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Capitalism has anyone that does what they 'like doing' by the balls.  It's not just research, look at the situation commercial airline pilots are in.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Capitalism has anyone that does what they 'like doing ' by the balls .
It 's not just research , look at the situation commercial airline pilots are in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Capitalism has anyone that does what they 'like doing' by the balls.
It's not just research, look at the situation commercial airline pilots are in.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206424</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207112</id>
	<title>Teachers really are the problem</title>
	<author>jmoo</author>
	<datestamp>1258975560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Warning! Anecdotal evidence ahead, my own two cents, etc....</p><p>My wife is a teacher now for 6 years and from what I can make of it, teachers are there own worse enemy when it comes to any improvements in the schools. They regularly resist any change, argue over almost any point, and back stab each other the smallest perceived slight. I think, at least in part, its comes from just a lot of burn out and frustration with students, but as I said this comes to be second hand from my wife so I know I don't have the clearest view.</p><p>My wife was an accountant and got her MBA before deciding to get out of the corporate life and to take up teaching. She went through an accelerated course to get her teaching degree. Now teaching business at the high school level for several years, but continues to be look down on by many of the teachers at the school. She didn't get a normal degree in education, she one of the "transplants". Such narrow mindedness....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Warning !
Anecdotal evidence ahead , my own two cents , etc....My wife is a teacher now for 6 years and from what I can make of it , teachers are there own worse enemy when it comes to any improvements in the schools .
They regularly resist any change , argue over almost any point , and back stab each other the smallest perceived slight .
I think , at least in part , its comes from just a lot of burn out and frustration with students , but as I said this comes to be second hand from my wife so I know I do n't have the clearest view.My wife was an accountant and got her MBA before deciding to get out of the corporate life and to take up teaching .
She went through an accelerated course to get her teaching degree .
Now teaching business at the high school level for several years , but continues to be look down on by many of the teachers at the school .
She did n't get a normal degree in education , she one of the " transplants " .
Such narrow mindedness... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Warning!
Anecdotal evidence ahead, my own two cents, etc....My wife is a teacher now for 6 years and from what I can make of it, teachers are there own worse enemy when it comes to any improvements in the schools.
They regularly resist any change, argue over almost any point, and back stab each other the smallest perceived slight.
I think, at least in part, its comes from just a lot of burn out and frustration with students, but as I said this comes to be second hand from my wife so I know I don't have the clearest view.My wife was an accountant and got her MBA before deciding to get out of the corporate life and to take up teaching.
She went through an accelerated course to get her teaching degree.
Now teaching business at the high school level for several years, but continues to be look down on by many of the teachers at the school.
She didn't get a normal degree in education, she one of the "transplants".
Such narrow mindedness....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206742</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>commodore64\_love</author>
	<datestamp>1258974060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;&gt;&gt;Not necessarily... doctors and lawyers also are notorious for making big bucks, but that doesn't somehow induce millions of high-schoolers to sit around all summer engrossed in dry legal and medical tomes.<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;</p><p>The doctors and lawyers have set-up ridiculous obstacles to joining their profession.  Is it really necessary to have 6 years of post-high-school to read the law?  NO.   Is it really necessary to have 8 years of education to become the equivalent of an organic engineer (doctor)?  No. A lot of the routine surgeries (like fixing the focal length of eyes, or removing tonsils) are no more difficult than what I do when soldering &amp; debugging a circuit card, but I only needed 4 years.</p><p>Because of these obstacles it can cost $250,000 just to earn the right to call yourself a lawyer or organic engineer (doctor), which is ridiculous in my opinion.  A four-year-degree (~$80,000) plus some on-the-job experience ought to be enough.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; &gt; &gt; Not necessarily... doctors and lawyers also are notorious for making big bucks , but that does n't somehow induce millions of high-schoolers to sit around all summer engrossed in dry legal and medical tomes. &gt; &gt; &gt; The doctors and lawyers have set-up ridiculous obstacles to joining their profession .
Is it really necessary to have 6 years of post-high-school to read the law ?
NO. Is it really necessary to have 8 years of education to become the equivalent of an organic engineer ( doctor ) ?
No. A lot of the routine surgeries ( like fixing the focal length of eyes , or removing tonsils ) are no more difficult than what I do when soldering &amp; debugging a circuit card , but I only needed 4 years.Because of these obstacles it can cost $ 250,000 just to earn the right to call yourself a lawyer or organic engineer ( doctor ) , which is ridiculous in my opinion .
A four-year-degree ( ~ $ 80,000 ) plus some on-the-job experience ought to be enough .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;&gt;&gt;Not necessarily... doctors and lawyers also are notorious for making big bucks, but that doesn't somehow induce millions of high-schoolers to sit around all summer engrossed in dry legal and medical tomes.&gt;&gt;&gt;The doctors and lawyers have set-up ridiculous obstacles to joining their profession.
Is it really necessary to have 6 years of post-high-school to read the law?
NO.   Is it really necessary to have 8 years of education to become the equivalent of an organic engineer (doctor)?
No. A lot of the routine surgeries (like fixing the focal length of eyes, or removing tonsils) are no more difficult than what I do when soldering &amp; debugging a circuit card, but I only needed 4 years.Because of these obstacles it can cost $250,000 just to earn the right to call yourself a lawyer or organic engineer (doctor), which is ridiculous in my opinion.
A four-year-degree (~$80,000) plus some on-the-job experience ought to be enough.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206020</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30210014</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>Lemming Mark</author>
	<datestamp>1258995900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At least Dr Dre has an academic title!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At least Dr Dre has an academic title !
; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At least Dr Dre has an academic title!
;-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205940</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206284</id>
	<title>If this succeeds we can look forward to</title>
	<author>ClosedSource</author>
	<datestamp>1258972140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>much more knowledgeable folks on unemployment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>much more knowledgeable folks on unemployment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>much more knowledgeable folks on unemployment.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207616</id>
	<title>Re:stem cells</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258977420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about small groups protesting ethics violations and corruption in government?  We can call them tea parties and have the left try to ridicule them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about small groups protesting ethics violations and corruption in government ?
We can call them tea parties and have the left try to ridicule them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about small groups protesting ethics violations and corruption in government?
We can call them tea parties and have the left try to ridicule them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206044</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207520</id>
	<title>Education and Equality Don't Mix</title>
	<author>Iyonesco</author>
	<datestamp>1258977060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When Tony Blair came to power a decade ago he listed his three priorities as "Education, Education, Education".  Since that time New Labour have lowered standards in education to the point where school leavers are now totally unemployable and near illiterate.  The UK education system renders most children unemployable and 20\% of youths between the age of 16 and 24 are currently out of work.  I was interested in becoming a teacher at one point but after visting a secondary school and seeing what was being taught I was completely put off the idea.  GCSE students were learning what I would expect to be taught in a primary school and the textbooks were filled more with New Labour propaganda than anything of value.  With no skills it's little wonder none of them can get a job upon leaving education.</p><p>So, what does any of this have to do with President Obama?  Like New Labour Obama is obsessed with "Equality for all" and where there is not equality he will create false equality.  Instead of accepting that all men are not created equal and that students have widely differing levels of academic ability he will force a false equality.  The only way you can force equality in education is to lower standards to the level of the least gifted student, and at that point everyone will attain the same incredibly low standard of education thus total equality.</p><p>Tony Blair did exactly what Obama is doing now, making s speeches about the importance of science with his usual sound bites like the future is &ldquo;lit by the brilliant light of science&rdquo;.  Now there is absolutely no science being taught UK schools, at least nothing anyone here would call science.  Science can be very complicated and if some students don't understand it then we won't have "Equality for all" so it has to be discarded from the curriculum.  In order to achive his "Equality for all" Obama will have to do exactly what New Labour has done and I therefore expect that Obama will do for the US education system what Tony Blair and Gorden Brown have done for the UK.</p><p>While everyone likes to criticise the Chinese government they have undoubtedly got their education system bang on right, separating students into different schools by ability and pushing the most gifted students to achieve in education.  With a solid foundation of knowledge these highly educated individuals will go on to make the scientific and  technological breakthroughs of the future, and China will reap the economic benefits associated with these breakthroughs.  Meanwhile in the west our children won't even be able to write their names and western civilisation will collapse into poverty.</p><p>"Equality for all" doesn't work and any attempts to force it, particularly in education, will destroy a nation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When Tony Blair came to power a decade ago he listed his three priorities as " Education , Education , Education " .
Since that time New Labour have lowered standards in education to the point where school leavers are now totally unemployable and near illiterate .
The UK education system renders most children unemployable and 20 \ % of youths between the age of 16 and 24 are currently out of work .
I was interested in becoming a teacher at one point but after visting a secondary school and seeing what was being taught I was completely put off the idea .
GCSE students were learning what I would expect to be taught in a primary school and the textbooks were filled more with New Labour propaganda than anything of value .
With no skills it 's little wonder none of them can get a job upon leaving education.So , what does any of this have to do with President Obama ?
Like New Labour Obama is obsessed with " Equality for all " and where there is not equality he will create false equality .
Instead of accepting that all men are not created equal and that students have widely differing levels of academic ability he will force a false equality .
The only way you can force equality in education is to lower standards to the level of the least gifted student , and at that point everyone will attain the same incredibly low standard of education thus total equality.Tony Blair did exactly what Obama is doing now , making s speeches about the importance of science with his usual sound bites like the future is    lit by the brilliant light of science    .
Now there is absolutely no science being taught UK schools , at least nothing anyone here would call science .
Science can be very complicated and if some students do n't understand it then we wo n't have " Equality for all " so it has to be discarded from the curriculum .
In order to achive his " Equality for all " Obama will have to do exactly what New Labour has done and I therefore expect that Obama will do for the US education system what Tony Blair and Gorden Brown have done for the UK.While everyone likes to criticise the Chinese government they have undoubtedly got their education system bang on right , separating students into different schools by ability and pushing the most gifted students to achieve in education .
With a solid foundation of knowledge these highly educated individuals will go on to make the scientific and technological breakthroughs of the future , and China will reap the economic benefits associated with these breakthroughs .
Meanwhile in the west our children wo n't even be able to write their names and western civilisation will collapse into poverty .
" Equality for all " does n't work and any attempts to force it , particularly in education , will destroy a nation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When Tony Blair came to power a decade ago he listed his three priorities as "Education, Education, Education".
Since that time New Labour have lowered standards in education to the point where school leavers are now totally unemployable and near illiterate.
The UK education system renders most children unemployable and 20\% of youths between the age of 16 and 24 are currently out of work.
I was interested in becoming a teacher at one point but after visting a secondary school and seeing what was being taught I was completely put off the idea.
GCSE students were learning what I would expect to be taught in a primary school and the textbooks were filled more with New Labour propaganda than anything of value.
With no skills it's little wonder none of them can get a job upon leaving education.So, what does any of this have to do with President Obama?
Like New Labour Obama is obsessed with "Equality for all" and where there is not equality he will create false equality.
Instead of accepting that all men are not created equal and that students have widely differing levels of academic ability he will force a false equality.
The only way you can force equality in education is to lower standards to the level of the least gifted student, and at that point everyone will attain the same incredibly low standard of education thus total equality.Tony Blair did exactly what Obama is doing now, making s speeches about the importance of science with his usual sound bites like the future is “lit by the brilliant light of science”.
Now there is absolutely no science being taught UK schools, at least nothing anyone here would call science.
Science can be very complicated and if some students don't understand it then we won't have "Equality for all" so it has to be discarded from the curriculum.
In order to achive his "Equality for all" Obama will have to do exactly what New Labour has done and I therefore expect that Obama will do for the US education system what Tony Blair and Gorden Brown have done for the UK.While everyone likes to criticise the Chinese government they have undoubtedly got their education system bang on right, separating students into different schools by ability and pushing the most gifted students to achieve in education.
With a solid foundation of knowledge these highly educated individuals will go on to make the scientific and  technological breakthroughs of the future, and China will reap the economic benefits associated with these breakthroughs.
Meanwhile in the west our children won't even be able to write their names and western civilisation will collapse into poverty.
"Equality for all" doesn't work and any attempts to force it, particularly in education, will destroy a nation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208938</id>
	<title>Re:If you pay them, they will come.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258984740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Only suckers do science right now.</p></div><p>I'd question any morality which equates people who have conviction in their aims with suckers, if I were you. I don't think it leads to very beneficial reasoning.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Only suckers do science right now.I 'd question any morality which equates people who have conviction in their aims with suckers , if I were you .
I do n't think it leads to very beneficial reasoning .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Only suckers do science right now.I'd question any morality which equates people who have conviction in their aims with suckers, if I were you.
I don't think it leads to very beneficial reasoning.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206262</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208510</id>
	<title>Moving beyond competition?</title>
	<author>Paul Fernhout</author>
	<datestamp>1258981860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I like this part of the speech (will they be open source?):<br>"The MacArthur Foundation and industry leaders like Sony are launching a nationwide challenge to design compelling, freely available, science-related video games."</p><p>But, sadly, they are still promoting "competitions" even in that "challenge", plus another part: "Time Warner Cable is joining with the Coalition for Science After School and FIRST Robotics -- the program created by inventor Dean Kamen, which gave us the "Cougar Cannon" -- to connect one million students with fun after-school activities, like robotics competitions."</p><p>See:<br><a href="http://www.share-international.org/archives/cooperation/co\_nocontest.htm" title="share-international.org">http://www.share-international.org/archives/cooperation/co\_nocontest.htm</a> [share-international.org]<br>"""<br>"We need competition in order to survive."<br>"Life is boring without competition."<br>"It is competition that gives us meaning in life."<br>These words written by American college students capture a sentiment that runs through the heart of the USA and appears to be spreading throughout the world. To these students, competition is not simply something one does, it is the very essence of existence. When asked to imagine a world without competition, they can foresee only rising prices, declining productivity and a general collapse of the moral order. Some truly believe we would cease to exist were it not for competition.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Alfie Kohn, author of No contest: the case against competition, disagrees completely. He argues that competition is essentially detrimental to every important aspect of human experience; our relationships, self-esteem, enjoyment of leisure, and even productivity would all be improved if we were to break out of the pattern of relentless competition. Far from being idealistic speculation, his position is anchored in hundreds of research studies and careful analysis of the primary domains of competitive interaction. For those who see themselves assisting in a transition to a less competitive world, Kohn's book will be an invaluable resource.<br>"""</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I like this part of the speech ( will they be open source ?
) : " The MacArthur Foundation and industry leaders like Sony are launching a nationwide challenge to design compelling , freely available , science-related video games .
" But , sadly , they are still promoting " competitions " even in that " challenge " , plus another part : " Time Warner Cable is joining with the Coalition for Science After School and FIRST Robotics -- the program created by inventor Dean Kamen , which gave us the " Cougar Cannon " -- to connect one million students with fun after-school activities , like robotics competitions .
" See : http : //www.share-international.org/archives/cooperation/co \ _nocontest.htm [ share-international.org ] " " " " We need competition in order to survive .
" " Life is boring without competition .
" " It is competition that gives us meaning in life .
" These words written by American college students capture a sentiment that runs through the heart of the USA and appears to be spreading throughout the world .
To these students , competition is not simply something one does , it is the very essence of existence .
When asked to imagine a world without competition , they can foresee only rising prices , declining productivity and a general collapse of the moral order .
Some truly believe we would cease to exist were it not for competition .
    Alfie Kohn , author of No contest : the case against competition , disagrees completely .
He argues that competition is essentially detrimental to every important aspect of human experience ; our relationships , self-esteem , enjoyment of leisure , and even productivity would all be improved if we were to break out of the pattern of relentless competition .
Far from being idealistic speculation , his position is anchored in hundreds of research studies and careful analysis of the primary domains of competitive interaction .
For those who see themselves assisting in a transition to a less competitive world , Kohn 's book will be an invaluable resource .
" " "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I like this part of the speech (will they be open source?
):"The MacArthur Foundation and industry leaders like Sony are launching a nationwide challenge to design compelling, freely available, science-related video games.
"But, sadly, they are still promoting "competitions" even in that "challenge", plus another part: "Time Warner Cable is joining with the Coalition for Science After School and FIRST Robotics -- the program created by inventor Dean Kamen, which gave us the "Cougar Cannon" -- to connect one million students with fun after-school activities, like robotics competitions.
"See:http://www.share-international.org/archives/cooperation/co\_nocontest.htm [share-international.org]""""We need competition in order to survive.
""Life is boring without competition.
""It is competition that gives us meaning in life.
"These words written by American college students capture a sentiment that runs through the heart of the USA and appears to be spreading throughout the world.
To these students, competition is not simply something one does, it is the very essence of existence.
When asked to imagine a world without competition, they can foresee only rising prices, declining productivity and a general collapse of the moral order.
Some truly believe we would cease to exist were it not for competition.
    Alfie Kohn, author of No contest: the case against competition, disagrees completely.
He argues that competition is essentially detrimental to every important aspect of human experience; our relationships, self-esteem, enjoyment of leisure, and even productivity would all be improved if we were to break out of the pattern of relentless competition.
Far from being idealistic speculation, his position is anchored in hundreds of research studies and careful analysis of the primary domains of competitive interaction.
For those who see themselves assisting in a transition to a less competitive world, Kohn's book will be an invaluable resource.
"""</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207046</id>
	<title>Re:Translation: Massive Union Vote Buying Program</title>
	<author>Etrias</author>
	<datestamp>1258975380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I stop paying attention when I see a post littered with the following phrases:<ul>
<li>Nanny State</li><li>Community Organizing or Organizer</li><li>group-think</li></ul><p>

Spin that with your broad generalizations about the left and a hilariously old reference to Hillary Clinton's book just shows that you're hopelessly mired in ideological cliches with no objective reasoning whatsoever...something I might add is important when discussing science.<br> <br>

I, on the other hand, am actually happy that government is actually paying attention to science and not making an enemy of it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I stop paying attention when I see a post littered with the following phrases : Nanny StateCommunity Organizing or Organizergroup-think Spin that with your broad generalizations about the left and a hilariously old reference to Hillary Clinton 's book just shows that you 're hopelessly mired in ideological cliches with no objective reasoning whatsoever...something I might add is important when discussing science .
I , on the other hand , am actually happy that government is actually paying attention to science and not making an enemy of it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I stop paying attention when I see a post littered with the following phrases:
Nanny StateCommunity Organizing or Organizergroup-think

Spin that with your broad generalizations about the left and a hilariously old reference to Hillary Clinton's book just shows that you're hopelessly mired in ideological cliches with no objective reasoning whatsoever...something I might add is important when discussing science.
I, on the other hand, am actually happy that government is actually paying attention to science and not making an enemy of it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207284</id>
	<title>Re:Translation: Massive Union Vote Buying Program</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258976160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Jesus Christ, did you even listen to the speech?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Jesus Christ , did you even listen to the speech ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Jesus Christ, did you even listen to the speech?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206900</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258974780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Compare that to the lead scientist in Independence Day. He couldn't even afford decent pants."</p><p>Yeah, but be honest: how many of us wouldn't want the job of <i>working on cool alien technology in Area 51</i> every day?  I mean, sure, there are the pants issues, but, wow, that would be a cool job!  And apparently you could wear your hair any way you liked.  I just interpreted all that as "no strict dress code, other than a lab coat".  I'll bet the military types were envious.  Lawyers?  Doctors?  They have to look respectable and wear suits and ties all the time.  No thanks.</p><p>Sure, there was also the whole "might be choked to death by alien" thing, but that's a minor risk compared to the perks of the job.  Oh, and "not being let out much", but that's only a downside for the subset of geeks that actually like sunshine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Compare that to the lead scientist in Independence Day .
He could n't even afford decent pants .
" Yeah , but be honest : how many of us would n't want the job of working on cool alien technology in Area 51 every day ?
I mean , sure , there are the pants issues , but , wow , that would be a cool job !
And apparently you could wear your hair any way you liked .
I just interpreted all that as " no strict dress code , other than a lab coat " .
I 'll bet the military types were envious .
Lawyers ? Doctors ?
They have to look respectable and wear suits and ties all the time .
No thanks.Sure , there was also the whole " might be choked to death by alien " thing , but that 's a minor risk compared to the perks of the job .
Oh , and " not being let out much " , but that 's only a downside for the subset of geeks that actually like sunshine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Compare that to the lead scientist in Independence Day.
He couldn't even afford decent pants.
"Yeah, but be honest: how many of us wouldn't want the job of working on cool alien technology in Area 51 every day?
I mean, sure, there are the pants issues, but, wow, that would be a cool job!
And apparently you could wear your hair any way you liked.
I just interpreted all that as "no strict dress code, other than a lab coat".
I'll bet the military types were envious.
Lawyers?  Doctors?
They have to look respectable and wear suits and ties all the time.
No thanks.Sure, there was also the whole "might be choked to death by alien" thing, but that's a minor risk compared to the perks of the job.
Oh, and "not being let out much", but that's only a downside for the subset of geeks that actually like sunshine.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206224</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207200</id>
	<title>Re:bucks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258975860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Professors make an average of $100k according to the BLS. That's a lot, in any part of the world.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Professors make an average of $ 100k according to the BLS .
That 's a lot , in any part of the world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Professors make an average of $100k according to the BLS.
That's a lot, in any part of the world.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206176</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208242</id>
	<title>cool vs. testing vs. perception</title>
	<author>meridoc</author>
	<datestamp>1258980420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's a conflict of interests, for lack of a better term.  It's nice that the President is advocating more science education and science literacy for the general population (with which I personally agree).  But there's also the state-mandated testing systems, some of which require science tests (thanks to NCLB, all states require math and language arts tests, but some states went above and beyond).</p><p>If a state requires science testing, chances are that many of its teachers will teach to that test in an attempt to keep the school afloat.  Yes, there are some teachers who do amazing projects and truly inspire students, but many will not.  Many teachers will feel (and are feeling) pressure to just get good scores.  This atmosphere is not at all condusive to making science (or any other subject taught this way) cool.</p><p>As far as getting the public interested in science, the media has to start taking an active interest in science and making it accessible to the general public.  Let's face it: a lot of new discoveries are not very simple (LHC, anyone?).  Explaining why it's an amazing project and worth funding should be part of a science reporter's job.  When I worked at a large public science museum, our job was to take material and bring it down to a 5th-8th grade level, which would help compensate for kids, non-native-English speakers, and non-science-literate parents.  Even TV shows like CSI do not make science accessible: the fancy-schmancy machines and lab-coat-clad workers are the ones to determine identities of mysterious materials or vials of evidence.</p><p>Which is another reason that kids don't want to go into science... "dude, you'll be a NERD!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's a conflict of interests , for lack of a better term .
It 's nice that the President is advocating more science education and science literacy for the general population ( with which I personally agree ) .
But there 's also the state-mandated testing systems , some of which require science tests ( thanks to NCLB , all states require math and language arts tests , but some states went above and beyond ) .If a state requires science testing , chances are that many of its teachers will teach to that test in an attempt to keep the school afloat .
Yes , there are some teachers who do amazing projects and truly inspire students , but many will not .
Many teachers will feel ( and are feeling ) pressure to just get good scores .
This atmosphere is not at all condusive to making science ( or any other subject taught this way ) cool.As far as getting the public interested in science , the media has to start taking an active interest in science and making it accessible to the general public .
Let 's face it : a lot of new discoveries are not very simple ( LHC , anyone ? ) .
Explaining why it 's an amazing project and worth funding should be part of a science reporter 's job .
When I worked at a large public science museum , our job was to take material and bring it down to a 5th-8th grade level , which would help compensate for kids , non-native-English speakers , and non-science-literate parents .
Even TV shows like CSI do not make science accessible : the fancy-schmancy machines and lab-coat-clad workers are the ones to determine identities of mysterious materials or vials of evidence.Which is another reason that kids do n't want to go into science... " dude , you 'll be a NERD !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's a conflict of interests, for lack of a better term.
It's nice that the President is advocating more science education and science literacy for the general population (with which I personally agree).
But there's also the state-mandated testing systems, some of which require science tests (thanks to NCLB, all states require math and language arts tests, but some states went above and beyond).If a state requires science testing, chances are that many of its teachers will teach to that test in an attempt to keep the school afloat.
Yes, there are some teachers who do amazing projects and truly inspire students, but many will not.
Many teachers will feel (and are feeling) pressure to just get good scores.
This atmosphere is not at all condusive to making science (or any other subject taught this way) cool.As far as getting the public interested in science, the media has to start taking an active interest in science and making it accessible to the general public.
Let's face it: a lot of new discoveries are not very simple (LHC, anyone?).
Explaining why it's an amazing project and worth funding should be part of a science reporter's job.
When I worked at a large public science museum, our job was to take material and bring it down to a 5th-8th grade level, which would help compensate for kids, non-native-English speakers, and non-science-literate parents.
Even TV shows like CSI do not make science accessible: the fancy-schmancy machines and lab-coat-clad workers are the ones to determine identities of mysterious materials or vials of evidence.Which is another reason that kids don't want to go into science... "dude, you'll be a NERD!
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208764</id>
	<title>Re:Translation: Massive Union Vote Buying Program</title>
	<author>Eli Gottlieb</author>
	<datestamp>1258983540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Because the left's power comes from asserting that parents can't and shouldn't be responsible - that the state should be in charge of those young meat computers, instead.</p></div><p>I really hope you've poured some serious irony into the phrase "meat computers", or you've made the same error as the government and the teachers' unions.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Because the left 's power comes from asserting that parents ca n't and should n't be responsible - that the state should be in charge of those young meat computers , instead.I really hope you 've poured some serious irony into the phrase " meat computers " , or you 've made the same error as the government and the teachers ' unions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because the left's power comes from asserting that parents can't and shouldn't be responsible - that the state should be in charge of those young meat computers, instead.I really hope you've poured some serious irony into the phrase "meat computers", or you've made the same error as the government and the teachers' unions.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208340</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>Eli Gottlieb</author>
	<datestamp>1258980960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Please mod the parent +7 Won the Thread Forever, and close all further commenting.  What needed saying, has been said.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Please mod the parent + 7 Won the Thread Forever , and close all further commenting .
What needed saying , has been said .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Please mod the parent +7 Won the Thread Forever, and close all further commenting.
What needed saying, has been said.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205940</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206224</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258971960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Being cool means kids don't feel stigmatized if they enter a field. The study comes later after choosing a career. Lawyers and doctors are often portrayed as smart, powerful, as well as highly paid in movies and TV. Compare that to the lead scientist in Independence Day. He couldn't even afford decent pants.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Being cool means kids do n't feel stigmatized if they enter a field .
The study comes later after choosing a career .
Lawyers and doctors are often portrayed as smart , powerful , as well as highly paid in movies and TV .
Compare that to the lead scientist in Independence Day .
He could n't even afford decent pants .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Being cool means kids don't feel stigmatized if they enter a field.
The study comes later after choosing a career.
Lawyers and doctors are often portrayed as smart, powerful, as well as highly paid in movies and TV.
Compare that to the lead scientist in Independence Day.
He couldn't even afford decent pants.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206020</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206992</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258975140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Massive cash awards to US scientists. These kids choose not to go into science...</p></div><p>I agree with you about the "massive cash".</p><p>On the other hand, as a (struggling) post-doc in computational biology, I see a lot of really talented hard-working people (not just me) who are trying to support their families with careers in science and having a really hard time of it. If anything, from where I'm at, I see that we need a whole lot less kids to be choosing careers in science because we can't even provide jobs for the scientists we already have.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>....the kids still want to be Kobe Bryant, or Dr. Dre.</p></div><p>If I were to give advice to some kid considering a career in science,  it would be the same advice I would give to a kid considering a career in acting: "Sure, the guys at the top are living like kings but the guys at the bottom are struggling to afford Ramen noodles - and the vast majority of guys are at the bottom. Do you really want to be a scientist/actor so badly that you're OK with struggling to afford Ramen noodles?" IMHO, if anything, a career in science is already too much like a career in acting (or pro-sports, or hip-hop, etc.) - there's this perception that unless you're Einstein you have nothing of value to contribute (of course, Einstein himself was working as a patent clerk when he discovered relativity).</p><p>What I would like, as a scientist, is to be able to investigate those scientific ideas that seem most promising to me without having to waste huge amounts of time and effort navigating a morass of inane bureaucratic "accountability" and to know that I could report the results of my investigations honestly while maintaining reasonably secure upper middle class employment. To put it bluntly, I want to be able to try promising scientific ideas and have them fail without the fear that I will be unable to provide a basic level of food and shelter for my family. I don't care about some monetary prize if I succeed (the knowledge that I had contributed to solving the world's immense problems would be way more than enough), what I care about is that there is an adequate safety net so that my family doesn't suffer if I fail.</p><p>So, in summary and in conclusion, we already have way too many scientists but, if we did somehow want to encourage more people to become scientists, we should devote our resources to providing a safety net at the bottom rather than a prize at the top.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Massive cash awards to US scientists .
These kids choose not to go into science...I agree with you about the " massive cash " .On the other hand , as a ( struggling ) post-doc in computational biology , I see a lot of really talented hard-working people ( not just me ) who are trying to support their families with careers in science and having a really hard time of it .
If anything , from where I 'm at , I see that we need a whole lot less kids to be choosing careers in science because we ca n't even provide jobs for the scientists we already have.....the kids still want to be Kobe Bryant , or Dr. Dre.If I were to give advice to some kid considering a career in science , it would be the same advice I would give to a kid considering a career in acting : " Sure , the guys at the top are living like kings but the guys at the bottom are struggling to afford Ramen noodles - and the vast majority of guys are at the bottom .
Do you really want to be a scientist/actor so badly that you 're OK with struggling to afford Ramen noodles ?
" IMHO , if anything , a career in science is already too much like a career in acting ( or pro-sports , or hip-hop , etc .
) - there 's this perception that unless you 're Einstein you have nothing of value to contribute ( of course , Einstein himself was working as a patent clerk when he discovered relativity ) .What I would like , as a scientist , is to be able to investigate those scientific ideas that seem most promising to me without having to waste huge amounts of time and effort navigating a morass of inane bureaucratic " accountability " and to know that I could report the results of my investigations honestly while maintaining reasonably secure upper middle class employment .
To put it bluntly , I want to be able to try promising scientific ideas and have them fail without the fear that I will be unable to provide a basic level of food and shelter for my family .
I do n't care about some monetary prize if I succeed ( the knowledge that I had contributed to solving the world 's immense problems would be way more than enough ) , what I care about is that there is an adequate safety net so that my family does n't suffer if I fail.So , in summary and in conclusion , we already have way too many scientists but , if we did somehow want to encourage more people to become scientists , we should devote our resources to providing a safety net at the bottom rather than a prize at the top .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Massive cash awards to US scientists.
These kids choose not to go into science...I agree with you about the "massive cash".On the other hand, as a (struggling) post-doc in computational biology, I see a lot of really talented hard-working people (not just me) who are trying to support their families with careers in science and having a really hard time of it.
If anything, from where I'm at, I see that we need a whole lot less kids to be choosing careers in science because we can't even provide jobs for the scientists we already have.....the kids still want to be Kobe Bryant, or Dr. Dre.If I were to give advice to some kid considering a career in science,  it would be the same advice I would give to a kid considering a career in acting: "Sure, the guys at the top are living like kings but the guys at the bottom are struggling to afford Ramen noodles - and the vast majority of guys are at the bottom.
Do you really want to be a scientist/actor so badly that you're OK with struggling to afford Ramen noodles?
" IMHO, if anything, a career in science is already too much like a career in acting (or pro-sports, or hip-hop, etc.
) - there's this perception that unless you're Einstein you have nothing of value to contribute (of course, Einstein himself was working as a patent clerk when he discovered relativity).What I would like, as a scientist, is to be able to investigate those scientific ideas that seem most promising to me without having to waste huge amounts of time and effort navigating a morass of inane bureaucratic "accountability" and to know that I could report the results of my investigations honestly while maintaining reasonably secure upper middle class employment.
To put it bluntly, I want to be able to try promising scientific ideas and have them fail without the fear that I will be unable to provide a basic level of food and shelter for my family.
I don't care about some monetary prize if I succeed (the knowledge that I had contributed to solving the world's immense problems would be way more than enough), what I care about is that there is an adequate safety net so that my family doesn't suffer if I fail.So, in summary and in conclusion, we already have way too many scientists but, if we did somehow want to encourage more people to become scientists, we should devote our resources to providing a safety net at the bottom rather than a prize at the top.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205940</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206910</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>bwintx</author>
	<datestamp>1258974840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Compare that to the lead scientist in Independence Day. He couldn't even afford decent pants.</p></div></blockquote><p>

Yeah, but given that he was the great-great-<b>great</b>-great-grandfather of the guy who was gonna build Data (explaining the <b>incredible</b> family resemblance), who cares?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Compare that to the lead scientist in Independence Day .
He could n't even afford decent pants .
Yeah , but given that he was the great-great-great-great-grandfather of the guy who was gon na build Data ( explaining the incredible family resemblance ) , who cares ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Compare that to the lead scientist in Independence Day.
He couldn't even afford decent pants.
Yeah, but given that he was the great-great-great-great-grandfather of the guy who was gonna build Data (explaining the incredible family resemblance), who cares?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206224</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206248</id>
	<title>Should have started with MATH</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258972020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>And required Congress and the White House staff to attend class.  Maybe then they'd understand the enormity of what they're doing with our money.</htmltext>
<tokenext>And required Congress and the White House staff to attend class .
Maybe then they 'd understand the enormity of what they 're doing with our money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And required Congress and the White House staff to attend class.
Maybe then they'd understand the enormity of what they're doing with our money.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30212052</id>
	<title>Re:Naming?</title>
	<author>Boronx</author>
	<datestamp>1259067480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What are you, an idiot?  I guess scientists should be happy for money to research a handful of played out corrupted stem cell lines.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What are you , an idiot ?
I guess scientists should be happy for money to research a handful of played out corrupted stem cell lines .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What are you, an idiot?
I guess scientists should be happy for money to research a handful of played out corrupted stem cell lines.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206094</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30210336</id>
	<title>Re:bucks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259000220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yep.</p><p>And when you're killing yourself working your 100 hour a week job for peanuts to support your family, you will discover that the education system that gave birth to you has completely disintegrated, and now YOU as a "bad parent" (i.e. someone who CAN'T pick up their kids at 3:30 and spend the rest of the evening teaching them the shit that DIDN'T get taught that day) are the problem.</p><p>Fuck "STEM"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... start learning Chinese now and just welcome our new overlords, because we are well and truly fucked, gentlemen.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yep.And when you 're killing yourself working your 100 hour a week job for peanuts to support your family , you will discover that the education system that gave birth to you has completely disintegrated , and now YOU as a " bad parent " ( i.e .
someone who CA N'T pick up their kids at 3 : 30 and spend the rest of the evening teaching them the shit that DID N'T get taught that day ) are the problem.Fuck " STEM " ... start learning Chinese now and just welcome our new overlords , because we are well and truly fucked , gentlemen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yep.And when you're killing yourself working your 100 hour a week job for peanuts to support your family, you will discover that the education system that gave birth to you has completely disintegrated, and now YOU as a "bad parent" (i.e.
someone who CAN'T pick up their kids at 3:30 and spend the rest of the evening teaching them the shit that DIDN'T get taught that day) are the problem.Fuck "STEM" ... start learning Chinese now and just welcome our new overlords, because we are well and truly fucked, gentlemen.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206812</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206040</id>
	<title>soundbite lessons as PSAs</title>
	<author>Speare</author>
	<datestamp>1258971120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>
I really think someone should bring back Public Service Announcement education (a la "Schoolhouse Rock") in a big way.  Keep the lessons small and bite-sized, fit them into 30 second spots.  Just keep banging away simple concepts that are aimed at middle-schoolers and adults who forgot all of that stuff.  Using simple math to figure out gallons of paint required for a wall of a given size.  Linking fuel purchased to pollution created in numbers.  Explaining the difference between anecdotes versus statistical norms, like the recent breast-cancer-screening recommendations.  Illustrating the kinds of technology Europe, Asia and the Americas had in 1400 AD or 1600 AD or 1800 AD.  Heck, even just quoting and explaining each of the Constitutional Amendments during shows like "24 Hours" or "CSI" would have a profound impact in the long run.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I really think someone should bring back Public Service Announcement education ( a la " Schoolhouse Rock " ) in a big way .
Keep the lessons small and bite-sized , fit them into 30 second spots .
Just keep banging away simple concepts that are aimed at middle-schoolers and adults who forgot all of that stuff .
Using simple math to figure out gallons of paint required for a wall of a given size .
Linking fuel purchased to pollution created in numbers .
Explaining the difference between anecdotes versus statistical norms , like the recent breast-cancer-screening recommendations .
Illustrating the kinds of technology Europe , Asia and the Americas had in 1400 AD or 1600 AD or 1800 AD .
Heck , even just quoting and explaining each of the Constitutional Amendments during shows like " 24 Hours " or " CSI " would have a profound impact in the long run .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
I really think someone should bring back Public Service Announcement education (a la "Schoolhouse Rock") in a big way.
Keep the lessons small and bite-sized, fit them into 30 second spots.
Just keep banging away simple concepts that are aimed at middle-schoolers and adults who forgot all of that stuff.
Using simple math to figure out gallons of paint required for a wall of a given size.
Linking fuel purchased to pollution created in numbers.
Explaining the difference between anecdotes versus statistical norms, like the recent breast-cancer-screening recommendations.
Illustrating the kinds of technology Europe, Asia and the Americas had in 1400 AD or 1600 AD or 1800 AD.
Heck, even just quoting and explaining each of the Constitutional Amendments during shows like "24 Hours" or "CSI" would have a profound impact in the long run.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208442</id>
	<title>Keep an eye on those robots, in case they try...</title>
	<author>Paul Fernhout</author>
	<datestamp>1258981500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From the article:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; <a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-education-innovate-campaign" title="whitehouse.gov">http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-education-innovate-campaign</a> [whitehouse.gov]<br>"""<br>Now, the students from Oakton High School are going to be demonstrating the "Cougar Cannon," designed to scoop up and toss moon rocks.  I am eager to see what they do -- for two reasons.  As President, I believe that robotics can inspire young people to pursue science and engineering.  And I also want to keep an eye on those robots, in case they try anything.  (Laughter.)<br>"""</p><p>Interesting, coming from someone who gave an order within three days of taking office to use killer robots in a way that allegedly killed three children.</p><p>From:<br><a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us\_and\_americas/article5575883.ece" title="timesonline.co.uk">http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us\_and\_americas/article5575883.ece</a> [timesonline.co.uk]<br>"Missiles fired from suspected US drones killed at least 15 people inside Pakistan today, the first such strikes since Barack Obama became president and a clear sign that the controversial military policy begun by George W Bush has not changed. Security officials said the strikes, which saw up to five missiles slam into houses in separate villages, killed seven "foreigners" - a term that usually means al-Qaeda - but locals also said that three children lost their lives.'</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From the article :     http : //www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-education-innovate-campaign [ whitehouse.gov ] " " " Now , the students from Oakton High School are going to be demonstrating the " Cougar Cannon , " designed to scoop up and toss moon rocks .
I am eager to see what they do -- for two reasons .
As President , I believe that robotics can inspire young people to pursue science and engineering .
And I also want to keep an eye on those robots , in case they try anything .
( Laughter. ) " " " Interesting , coming from someone who gave an order within three days of taking office to use killer robots in a way that allegedly killed three children.From : http : //www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us \ _and \ _americas/article5575883.ece [ timesonline.co.uk ] " Missiles fired from suspected US drones killed at least 15 people inside Pakistan today , the first such strikes since Barack Obama became president and a clear sign that the controversial military policy begun by George W Bush has not changed .
Security officials said the strikes , which saw up to five missiles slam into houses in separate villages , killed seven " foreigners " - a term that usually means al-Qaeda - but locals also said that three children lost their lives .
'</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From the article:
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-education-innovate-campaign [whitehouse.gov]"""Now, the students from Oakton High School are going to be demonstrating the "Cougar Cannon," designed to scoop up and toss moon rocks.
I am eager to see what they do -- for two reasons.
As President, I believe that robotics can inspire young people to pursue science and engineering.
And I also want to keep an eye on those robots, in case they try anything.
(Laughter.)"""Interesting, coming from someone who gave an order within three days of taking office to use killer robots in a way that allegedly killed three children.From:http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us\_and\_americas/article5575883.ece [timesonline.co.uk]"Missiles fired from suspected US drones killed at least 15 people inside Pakistan today, the first such strikes since Barack Obama became president and a clear sign that the controversial military policy begun by George W Bush has not changed.
Security officials said the strikes, which saw up to five missiles slam into houses in separate villages, killed seven "foreigners" - a term that usually means al-Qaeda - but locals also said that three children lost their lives.
'</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206340</id>
	<title>Re:STEM...</title>
	<author>vlm</author>
	<datestamp>1258972380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>still can't compete with PS, Xbox, Wii, DS, etc.</p></div><p>Ah, it can handle that, what it can't compete with is H1B, NAFTA.</p><p>The supply is already far too high for the demand, given the levels of under-employment, unemployment, and low salary I've seen over the past few decades.</p><p>So, what's the point of increasing the oversupply even further?</p><p>Well, if you assume the govt always does what screws the most middle class people, you'll find that explains a heck of a lot about<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... everything.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>still ca n't compete with PS , Xbox , Wii , DS , etc.Ah , it can handle that , what it ca n't compete with is H1B , NAFTA.The supply is already far too high for the demand , given the levels of under-employment , unemployment , and low salary I 've seen over the past few decades.So , what 's the point of increasing the oversupply even further ? Well , if you assume the govt always does what screws the most middle class people , you 'll find that explains a heck of a lot about ... everything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>still can't compete with PS, Xbox, Wii, DS, etc.Ah, it can handle that, what it can't compete with is H1B, NAFTA.The supply is already far too high for the demand, given the levels of under-employment, unemployment, and low salary I've seen over the past few decades.So, what's the point of increasing the oversupply even further?Well, if you assume the govt always does what screws the most middle class people, you'll find that explains a heck of a lot about ... everything.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205906</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206858</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>sconeu</author>
	<datestamp>1258974600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Another solution -- How about <b>NOT</b> cutting funds to NASA, and instead, giving it enough money to do Constellation right, so that we have something for kids to be excited about?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Another solution -- How about NOT cutting funds to NASA , and instead , giving it enough money to do Constellation right , so that we have something for kids to be excited about ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Another solution -- How about NOT cutting funds to NASA, and instead, giving it enough money to do Constellation right, so that we have something for kids to be excited about?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205940</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205906</id>
	<title>STEM...</title>
	<author>rayharris</author>
	<datestamp>1258970520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>still can't compete with PS, Xbox, Wii, DS, etc.<br>
<br>
Which is why we're heading towards second-world country status.</htmltext>
<tokenext>still ca n't compete with PS , Xbox , Wii , DS , etc .
Which is why we 're heading towards second-world country status .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>still can't compete with PS, Xbox, Wii, DS, etc.
Which is why we're heading towards second-world country status.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206064</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>genghisjahn</author>
	<datestamp>1258971240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Kobe and Dre are both are regular slashdot commenters, I might add.  Kobe says he comes to slashdot so that people will, "treat me like a regular person."  Dre rips off sigs for lyrics.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Kobe and Dre are both are regular slashdot commenters , I might add .
Kobe says he comes to slashdot so that people will , " treat me like a regular person .
" Dre rips off sigs for lyrics .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Kobe and Dre are both are regular slashdot commenters, I might add.
Kobe says he comes to slashdot so that people will, "treat me like a regular person.
"  Dre rips off sigs for lyrics.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205940</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207868</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers really are the problem</title>
	<author>rickb928</author>
	<datestamp>1258978500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My wife is a 25-year veteran music teacher, mostly in middle school.</p><p>She laments the collapse of discipline, disrespect bordering on abuse of teachers, and most students' unwillingness to exert themselves in any meaningful way.  She doesn't think this started 25 years ago, but she doesn't have a good estimate of when either.</p><p>I would agree.  Seeing her students, God bless them, but nost of them are pathetic.  Of course, most of them have home lives that are ruinous.  So fixing society might indeed be the first step.  But that supposes we are writing off at least one generation, and maybe two.</p><p>But my wife would not blame the sad state of education on teachers' behavior in the lunch room, or even local governments, though they are struggling.  She blames both a societal collapse, single-parent families, and the intercession of the Federal Government.</p><p>- Societal collapse; lack of respect, an attitude of entitlement, lack of accountability, etc.  You know this drill.</p><p>- Single-parent families; lack of attention, child-raising by strangers, poor role models, lack of discipline, teelvsion etc as the babysitter, the list goes on.</p><p>- Intercession of Federal Government;  Local governments are much more accountable, responsive, and responsible.  the proof of this is the complaining about NCLB.  I took standardized tests in high school, back in 1968-1972.  Seems to have been a good idea then.  SATs are standardized tests, and while they have problems, they are not blamed for the sad state of education today.  And the truth is, the test all high school students need to pass is to be able to fill out a job application or a college admission form.  Tests are the reality.  Failure is always possible...</p><p>As an aside, our President proposes to re-emphasize science education.  Perhaps he should fund NASA as well?  Mixed messages.  Not uncommon for this Administration, but we don't have to accept the status quo, right?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My wife is a 25-year veteran music teacher , mostly in middle school.She laments the collapse of discipline , disrespect bordering on abuse of teachers , and most students ' unwillingness to exert themselves in any meaningful way .
She does n't think this started 25 years ago , but she does n't have a good estimate of when either.I would agree .
Seeing her students , God bless them , but nost of them are pathetic .
Of course , most of them have home lives that are ruinous .
So fixing society might indeed be the first step .
But that supposes we are writing off at least one generation , and maybe two.But my wife would not blame the sad state of education on teachers ' behavior in the lunch room , or even local governments , though they are struggling .
She blames both a societal collapse , single-parent families , and the intercession of the Federal Government.- Societal collapse ; lack of respect , an attitude of entitlement , lack of accountability , etc .
You know this drill.- Single-parent families ; lack of attention , child-raising by strangers , poor role models , lack of discipline , teelvsion etc as the babysitter , the list goes on.- Intercession of Federal Government ; Local governments are much more accountable , responsive , and responsible .
the proof of this is the complaining about NCLB .
I took standardized tests in high school , back in 1968-1972 .
Seems to have been a good idea then .
SATs are standardized tests , and while they have problems , they are not blamed for the sad state of education today .
And the truth is , the test all high school students need to pass is to be able to fill out a job application or a college admission form .
Tests are the reality .
Failure is always possible...As an aside , our President proposes to re-emphasize science education .
Perhaps he should fund NASA as well ?
Mixed messages .
Not uncommon for this Administration , but we do n't have to accept the status quo , right ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My wife is a 25-year veteran music teacher, mostly in middle school.She laments the collapse of discipline, disrespect bordering on abuse of teachers, and most students' unwillingness to exert themselves in any meaningful way.
She doesn't think this started 25 years ago, but she doesn't have a good estimate of when either.I would agree.
Seeing her students, God bless them, but nost of them are pathetic.
Of course, most of them have home lives that are ruinous.
So fixing society might indeed be the first step.
But that supposes we are writing off at least one generation, and maybe two.But my wife would not blame the sad state of education on teachers' behavior in the lunch room, or even local governments, though they are struggling.
She blames both a societal collapse, single-parent families, and the intercession of the Federal Government.- Societal collapse; lack of respect, an attitude of entitlement, lack of accountability, etc.
You know this drill.- Single-parent families; lack of attention, child-raising by strangers, poor role models, lack of discipline, teelvsion etc as the babysitter, the list goes on.- Intercession of Federal Government;  Local governments are much more accountable, responsive, and responsible.
the proof of this is the complaining about NCLB.
I took standardized tests in high school, back in 1968-1972.
Seems to have been a good idea then.
SATs are standardized tests, and while they have problems, they are not blamed for the sad state of education today.
And the truth is, the test all high school students need to pass is to be able to fill out a job application or a college admission form.
Tests are the reality.
Failure is always possible...As an aside, our President proposes to re-emphasize science education.
Perhaps he should fund NASA as well?
Mixed messages.
Not uncommon for this Administration, but we don't have to accept the status quo, right?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207112</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206840</id>
	<title>Re:bucks</title>
	<author>mochan\_s</author>
	<datestamp>1258974540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But, the carrot is the PhD and then the assistant prof. job and finally tenure.</p><p>I have seen 40+ year old postdocs in the biomedical fields that have been postdocs over 10 years. I knew him because he had been living in our apartment complex (graduate student and postdocs favored) that he had decided it was economically sound idea to be the live in building manager.</p><p>I mean, the guy works on curing cancer during the day (works on cancer experiments<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) ) and is interrupted by phone calls from graduate students who want to take a look at apt 12b.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But , the carrot is the PhD and then the assistant prof. job and finally tenure.I have seen 40 + year old postdocs in the biomedical fields that have been postdocs over 10 years .
I knew him because he had been living in our apartment complex ( graduate student and postdocs favored ) that he had decided it was economically sound idea to be the live in building manager.I mean , the guy works on curing cancer during the day ( works on cancer experiments : ) ) and is interrupted by phone calls from graduate students who want to take a look at apt 12b .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But, the carrot is the PhD and then the assistant prof. job and finally tenure.I have seen 40+ year old postdocs in the biomedical fields that have been postdocs over 10 years.
I knew him because he had been living in our apartment complex (graduate student and postdocs favored) that he had decided it was economically sound idea to be the live in building manager.I mean, the guy works on curing cancer during the day (works on cancer experiments :) ) and is interrupted by phone calls from graduate students who want to take a look at apt 12b.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206424</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206770</id>
	<title>Re:bucks</title>
	<author>godrik</author>
	<datestamp>1258974180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is ridiculous, you should not be paid less because you like the job you do. I don't think postdoc got any benefit in term of housing. I am currently post doc in Ohio-State University and I have almost no benefit. A post doc has to pay for exactly the same things as other people do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is ridiculous , you should not be paid less because you like the job you do .
I do n't think postdoc got any benefit in term of housing .
I am currently post doc in Ohio-State University and I have almost no benefit .
A post doc has to pay for exactly the same things as other people do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is ridiculous, you should not be paid less because you like the job you do.
I don't think postdoc got any benefit in term of housing.
I am currently post doc in Ohio-State University and I have almost no benefit.
A post doc has to pay for exactly the same things as other people do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206424</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207854</id>
	<title>Re:fired up, huh?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258978440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sorry the Indians on H1-Bs are the only people smart enough for these jobs according to the politicians, CEOs, and of course India Inc. Americans need not apply because according to the Indians US universities are second-rate compared to IIT in India.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry the Indians on H1-Bs are the only people smart enough for these jobs according to the politicians , CEOs , and of course India Inc. Americans need not apply because according to the Indians US universities are second-rate compared to IIT in India .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry the Indians on H1-Bs are the only people smart enough for these jobs according to the politicians, CEOs, and of course India Inc. Americans need not apply because according to the Indians US universities are second-rate compared to IIT in India.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205988</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30209094</id>
	<title>Re:No impact on corporate america</title>
	<author>PearPeer</author>
	<datestamp>1258986180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree that college majors in science &amp; engineering is are AVOIDED in the USA because of the disastrous OUTSOURCING OF QUALITY JOBS.
     After a LOT of thought, I've concluded the ROOT PROBLEM is this:
AUTOMATION (computerization, Internet &amp; robotic manufacturing<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...which accelerates globalization) BENEFITS CORPORATIONS far more than it benefits INDIVIDUAL USA citizens.  In fact, the average US citizen actually experiences a NET LOSS from globalization and will CONTINUE to do so, until the US seriously engages in AUTOMATION TO BENEFIT THE PEOPLE.
--What does this have to do with education?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...  Everything:
That is, when little Carlos, little Jane, little Ebony, and little Bobby see THEIR parents, or THEIR neighbor's parents, making good money from AUTOMATION THAT BENEFITS THE PEOPLE THEY KNOW, they will naturally be very EAGER TO STUDY science, engineering and math.
   But HOW can we provide AUTOMATION THAT BENEFITS THE PEOPLE?
IDEA #1:  A "Manhattan-Project-scale effort" to define  flexible desktop-sized AUTOMATED MANUFACTURING CELLS that (bright) ordinary US citizens can operate in one room of their homes.  There is NO insurmountable reason why such cells could not be extremely clean, non-polluting, energy efficient, cost-effective and highly profitable.  Standardize (and subsidize -or buy out right the companies making th best)  CAD/CAM software, I/O modules, etc.   Of course much more work needs to be done ("Manhattan-Project-scale effort").
Thus, ELIMINATE THE ADVANTAGE OF "CHEAP HUMAN LABOR" and you'll stop outsourcing of good jobs, grow millions of good local jobs, and the education problem will essentially self-correct.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree that college majors in science &amp; engineering is are AVOIDED in the USA because of the disastrous OUTSOURCING OF QUALITY JOBS .
After a LOT of thought , I 've concluded the ROOT PROBLEM is this : AUTOMATION ( computerization , Internet &amp; robotic manufacturing ...which accelerates globalization ) BENEFITS CORPORATIONS far more than it benefits INDIVIDUAL USA citizens .
In fact , the average US citizen actually experiences a NET LOSS from globalization and will CONTINUE to do so , until the US seriously engages in AUTOMATION TO BENEFIT THE PEOPLE .
--What does this have to do with education ?
... Everything : That is , when little Carlos , little Jane , little Ebony , and little Bobby see THEIR parents , or THEIR neighbor 's parents , making good money from AUTOMATION THAT BENEFITS THE PEOPLE THEY KNOW , they will naturally be very EAGER TO STUDY science , engineering and math .
But HOW can we provide AUTOMATION THAT BENEFITS THE PEOPLE ?
IDEA # 1 : A " Manhattan-Project-scale effort " to define flexible desktop-sized AUTOMATED MANUFACTURING CELLS that ( bright ) ordinary US citizens can operate in one room of their homes .
There is NO insurmountable reason why such cells could not be extremely clean , non-polluting , energy efficient , cost-effective and highly profitable .
Standardize ( and subsidize -or buy out right the companies making th best ) CAD/CAM software , I/O modules , etc .
Of course much more work needs to be done ( " Manhattan-Project-scale effort " ) .
Thus , ELIMINATE THE ADVANTAGE OF " CHEAP HUMAN LABOR " and you 'll stop outsourcing of good jobs , grow millions of good local jobs , and the education problem will essentially self-correct .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree that college majors in science &amp; engineering is are AVOIDED in the USA because of the disastrous OUTSOURCING OF QUALITY JOBS.
After a LOT of thought, I've concluded the ROOT PROBLEM is this:
AUTOMATION (computerization, Internet &amp; robotic manufacturing ...which accelerates globalization) BENEFITS CORPORATIONS far more than it benefits INDIVIDUAL USA citizens.
In fact, the average US citizen actually experiences a NET LOSS from globalization and will CONTINUE to do so, until the US seriously engages in AUTOMATION TO BENEFIT THE PEOPLE.
--What does this have to do with education?
...  Everything:
That is, when little Carlos, little Jane, little Ebony, and little Bobby see THEIR parents, or THEIR neighbor's parents, making good money from AUTOMATION THAT BENEFITS THE PEOPLE THEY KNOW, they will naturally be very EAGER TO STUDY science, engineering and math.
But HOW can we provide AUTOMATION THAT BENEFITS THE PEOPLE?
IDEA #1:  A "Manhattan-Project-scale effort" to define  flexible desktop-sized AUTOMATED MANUFACTURING CELLS that (bright) ordinary US citizens can operate in one room of their homes.
There is NO insurmountable reason why such cells could not be extremely clean, non-polluting, energy efficient, cost-effective and highly profitable.
Standardize (and subsidize -or buy out right the companies making th best)  CAD/CAM software, I/O modules, etc.
Of course much more work needs to be done ("Manhattan-Project-scale effort").
Thus, ELIMINATE THE ADVANTAGE OF "CHEAP HUMAN LABOR" and you'll stop outsourcing of good jobs, grow millions of good local jobs, and the education problem will essentially self-correct.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206794</id>
	<title>buzz kill</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258974360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But I want to be a jock or a rapper<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. cuz they get all the whips (not the American made lemons) and all the hoes.</p><p>Seriously, as long as the leadership are not from a STEM background, the US will continue to spiral into irrelevancy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But I want to be a jock or a rapper .. cuz they get all the whips ( not the American made lemons ) and all the hoes.Seriously , as long as the leadership are not from a STEM background , the US will continue to spiral into irrelevancy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But I want to be a jock or a rapper .. cuz they get all the whips (not the American made lemons) and all the hoes.Seriously, as long as the leadership are not from a STEM background, the US will continue to spiral into irrelevancy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30209618</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>Anarchduke</author>
	<datestamp>1258990980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If I recall, the lead scientist in Independence Day was the head of technology or something like that for a major cable company.  My guess is he was making plenty of money.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If I recall , the lead scientist in Independence Day was the head of technology or something like that for a major cable company .
My guess is he was making plenty of money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I recall, the lead scientist in Independence Day was the head of technology or something like that for a major cable company.
My guess is he was making plenty of money.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206224</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208950</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258984800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"A lot of the routine surgeries (like fixing the focal length of eyes, or removing tonsils) are no more difficult than what I do when soldering &amp; debugging a circuit card, but I only needed 4 years."</p><p>Right, now come back when you can do it while the circuit is running.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" A lot of the routine surgeries ( like fixing the focal length of eyes , or removing tonsils ) are no more difficult than what I do when soldering &amp; debugging a circuit card , but I only needed 4 years .
" Right , now come back when you can do it while the circuit is running .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"A lot of the routine surgeries (like fixing the focal length of eyes, or removing tonsils) are no more difficult than what I do when soldering &amp; debugging a circuit card, but I only needed 4 years.
"Right, now come back when you can do it while the circuit is running.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206742</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206188</id>
	<title>But where's...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258971780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...the friggin' video???</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...the friggin ' video ? ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...the friggin' video??
?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206104</id>
	<title>Re:fired up, huh?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258971420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Two words: "National Laboratories".  There's plenty of money in the USA for scientists and engineers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Two words : " National Laboratories " .
There 's plenty of money in the USA for scientists and engineers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Two words: "National Laboratories".
There's plenty of money in the USA for scientists and engineers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205988</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206636</id>
	<title>No impact on corporate america</title>
	<author>HockeyPuck</author>
	<datestamp>1258973640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Corp america doesn't care how many millions of kids become engineers or scientists. It'll always be cheaper to hire an engineer in India/China than in the US.  My company (large IT company), hasn't had any layoffs, but all the hiring that has been happening has been overseas.  So when the CEO gets on the quarterly call and says that the company has continued to hire people; he leaves out the little footnote about how 90\% of them are overseas.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Corp america does n't care how many millions of kids become engineers or scientists .
It 'll always be cheaper to hire an engineer in India/China than in the US .
My company ( large IT company ) , has n't had any layoffs , but all the hiring that has been happening has been overseas .
So when the CEO gets on the quarterly call and says that the company has continued to hire people ; he leaves out the little footnote about how 90 \ % of them are overseas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Corp america doesn't care how many millions of kids become engineers or scientists.
It'll always be cheaper to hire an engineer in India/China than in the US.
My company (large IT company), hasn't had any layoffs, but all the hiring that has been happening has been overseas.
So when the CEO gets on the quarterly call and says that the company has continued to hire people; he leaves out the little footnote about how 90\% of them are overseas.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207640</id>
	<title>Re:bucks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258977480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have a relative that got their PhD. at 26 and is now working for a major pharma corp making over $100k per year.</p><p>Moral of the story? Get a job that actually puts your degree to work. Striving to be a tenured professor is a waste of time and of the degree. Shit, the grad students do all the teaching anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a relative that got their PhD .
at 26 and is now working for a major pharma corp making over $ 100k per year.Moral of the story ?
Get a job that actually puts your degree to work .
Striving to be a tenured professor is a waste of time and of the degree .
Shit , the grad students do all the teaching anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a relative that got their PhD.
at 26 and is now working for a major pharma corp making over $100k per year.Moral of the story?
Get a job that actually puts your degree to work.
Striving to be a tenured professor is a waste of time and of the degree.
Shit, the grad students do all the teaching anyway.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206812</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206954</id>
	<title>Awaiting the GOP response...</title>
	<author>damn\_registrars</author>
	<datestamp>1258975020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Conservatives declare war on science to spite "the liberal agenda" in<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...<br> <br>
Nevermind, they declared war on science some time ago.  As much as I love my job I hate the fact that my entire field is a political football, kicked around everytime the leadership in Washington changes.  Why on earth supporting scientific research has become a partisan issue is beyond me; scientific research benefits people of all political persuasions.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Conservatives declare war on science to spite " the liberal agenda " in .. . Nevermind , they declared war on science some time ago .
As much as I love my job I hate the fact that my entire field is a political football , kicked around everytime the leadership in Washington changes .
Why on earth supporting scientific research has become a partisan issue is beyond me ; scientific research benefits people of all political persuasions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Conservatives declare war on science to spite "the liberal agenda" in ... 
Nevermind, they declared war on science some time ago.
As much as I love my job I hate the fact that my entire field is a political football, kicked around everytime the leadership in Washington changes.
Why on earth supporting scientific research has become a partisan issue is beyond me; scientific research benefits people of all political persuasions.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30210922</id>
	<title>Re:Translation: Massive Union Vote Buying Program</title>
	<author>Kiyooka</author>
	<datestamp>1259096340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Culture is both a cause and a consequence. Parents might magically wake up and start talking to their children about the wonders of science. Or they might not. But culture can also be another tool in the government toolkit (e.g. religion).</p><p>Your fantasy of an evil controlling nanny state versus the rebellious freedom-fighter parents is just that: a fantasy. Sometimes the government is doing something that should be done, and sometimes not; sometimes parents are doing what should be done, and sometimes not. I think everyone recognizes by now that most people don't spend time exciting their kids about science, and so the ability to reason and think clearly is declining. Hence, it's forward-thinking for someone with the power and responsibility of the President of the US to increase science and mathematics education. I don't see how any clear-thinking person could be against this.</p><p>Simplified models beget simplified thinking.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Culture is both a cause and a consequence .
Parents might magically wake up and start talking to their children about the wonders of science .
Or they might not .
But culture can also be another tool in the government toolkit ( e.g .
religion ) .Your fantasy of an evil controlling nanny state versus the rebellious freedom-fighter parents is just that : a fantasy .
Sometimes the government is doing something that should be done , and sometimes not ; sometimes parents are doing what should be done , and sometimes not .
I think everyone recognizes by now that most people do n't spend time exciting their kids about science , and so the ability to reason and think clearly is declining .
Hence , it 's forward-thinking for someone with the power and responsibility of the President of the US to increase science and mathematics education .
I do n't see how any clear-thinking person could be against this.Simplified models beget simplified thinking .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Culture is both a cause and a consequence.
Parents might magically wake up and start talking to their children about the wonders of science.
Or they might not.
But culture can also be another tool in the government toolkit (e.g.
religion).Your fantasy of an evil controlling nanny state versus the rebellious freedom-fighter parents is just that: a fantasy.
Sometimes the government is doing something that should be done, and sometimes not; sometimes parents are doing what should be done, and sometimes not.
I think everyone recognizes by now that most people don't spend time exciting their kids about science, and so the ability to reason and think clearly is declining.
Hence, it's forward-thinking for someone with the power and responsibility of the President of the US to increase science and mathematics education.
I don't see how any clear-thinking person could be against this.Simplified models beget simplified thinking.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30210682</id>
	<title>OH MY GOD!</title>
	<author>turkeyfish</author>
	<datestamp>1259005500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Did you say he's interested in promoting rational thought.  Yikes!</p><p>Its so reassuring to learn that the GOP has taken it upon themselves to crusade for irrationality.  What would we do without them?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did you say he 's interested in promoting rational thought .
Yikes ! Its so reassuring to learn that the GOP has taken it upon themselves to crusade for irrationality .
What would we do without them ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did you say he's interested in promoting rational thought.
Yikes!Its so reassuring to learn that the GOP has taken it upon themselves to crusade for irrationality.
What would we do without them?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206538</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207266</id>
	<title>Re:Fantasy trumps science (almost) every time</title>
	<author>captjc</author>
	<datestamp>1258976100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, because you have to be sick in the head to be an engineer. The real cool kids love flipping burgers!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , because you have to be sick in the head to be an engineer .
The real cool kids love flipping burgers !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, because you have to be sick in the head to be an engineer.
The real cool kids love flipping burgers!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206170</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30214506</id>
	<title>Re:soundbite lessons as PSAs</title>
	<author>steelfood</author>
	<datestamp>1259081520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why don't we start with manners and common decency. Like, don't spit, cover your nose when you sneeze, cover your mouth when you cough, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do n't we start with manners and common decency .
Like , do n't spit , cover your nose when you sneeze , cover your mouth when you cough , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why don't we start with manners and common decency.
Like, don't spit, cover your nose when you sneeze, cover your mouth when you cough, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206040</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206114</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>Rogerborg</author>
	<datestamp>1258971480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But when they come to apply to colleges, which professions look like they'll pay off their student debt?

</p><p>Say, Obama was a physicist, right?  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack\_Obama#Early\_life\_and\_career" title="wikipedia.org">Right?</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But when they come to apply to colleges , which professions look like they 'll pay off their student debt ?
Say , Obama was a physicist , right ?
Right ? [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But when they come to apply to colleges, which professions look like they'll pay off their student debt?
Say, Obama was a physicist, right?
Right? [wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206020</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206262</id>
	<title>If you pay them, they will come.</title>
	<author>Maxo-Texas</author>
	<datestamp>1258972080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was going to say stop paying executives and lawyers so much.</p><p>But then I realized an even more fundamental problem.</p><p>Science is hard.  Degrees are expensive in the U.S.</p><p>Knowing science does not result in either good pay or security.</p><p>So smart people choose other fields which require boots on the ground, better security, and better social status.</p><p>Only suckers do science right now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was going to say stop paying executives and lawyers so much.But then I realized an even more fundamental problem.Science is hard .
Degrees are expensive in the U.S.Knowing science does not result in either good pay or security.So smart people choose other fields which require boots on the ground , better security , and better social status.Only suckers do science right now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was going to say stop paying executives and lawyers so much.But then I realized an even more fundamental problem.Science is hard.
Degrees are expensive in the U.S.Knowing science does not result in either good pay or security.So smart people choose other fields which require boots on the ground, better security, and better social status.Only suckers do science right now.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208826</id>
	<title>A conspiracy against ourselves...</title>
	<author>Paul Fernhout</author>
	<datestamp>1258983900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>John Taylor Gatto says it best:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; <a href="http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/16a.htm" title="johntaylorgatto.com">http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/16a.htm</a> [johntaylorgatto.com]<br>"""<br>Before you can reach a point of effectiveness in defending your own children or your principles against the assault of blind social machinery, you have to stop conspiring against yourself by attempting to negotiate with a set of abstract principles and rules which, by its nature, cannot respond. Under all its disguises, that is what institutional schooling is, an abstraction which has escaped its handlers. Nobody can reform it. First you have to realize that human values are the stuff of madness to a system; in systems-logic the schools we have are already the schools the system needs; the only way they could be much improved is to have kids eat, sleep, live, and die there.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Schools got the way they were at the start of the twentieth century as part of a vast, intensely engineered social revolution in which all major institutions were overhauled to work together in harmonious managerial efficiency. Ours was to be an improvement on the British system, which once depended on a shared upper-class culture for its coherence. Ours would be subject to a rational framework of science, law, instruction, and mathematically derived merit. When Morgan reorganized the American marketplace into a world of cooperating trusts at the end of the nineteenth century, he created a business and financial subsystem to interlink with the subsystem of government, the subsystem of schooling, and other subsystems to regulate every other aspect of national life. None of this was conspiratorial. Each increment was rationally defensible. But the net effect was the destruction of small-town, small-government America, strong families, individual liberty, and a lot of other things people weren't aware they were trading for a regular corporate paycheck.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; A huge price had to be paid for business and government efficiency, a price we still pay in the quality of our existence. Part of what kids gave up was the prospect of being able to read very well, a historic part of the American genius. Instead, school had to train them for their role in the new overarching social system. But spare yourself the agony of thinking of this as a conspiracy. It was and is a fully rational transaction, the very epitome of rationalization engendered by a group of honorable men, all honorable men--but with decisive help from ordinary citizens, from almost all of us as we gradually lost touch with the fact that being followers instead of leaders, becoming consumers in place of producers, rendered us incompletely human. It was a naturally occurring conspiracy, one which required no criminal genius. The real conspirators were ourselves. When we sold our liberty for the promise of automatic security, we became like children in a conspiracy against growing up, sad children who conspire against their own children, consigning them over and over to the denaturing vats of compulsory state factory schooling.<br>"""</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>John Taylor Gatto says it best :     http : //www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/16a.htm [ johntaylorgatto.com ] " " " Before you can reach a point of effectiveness in defending your own children or your principles against the assault of blind social machinery , you have to stop conspiring against yourself by attempting to negotiate with a set of abstract principles and rules which , by its nature , can not respond .
Under all its disguises , that is what institutional schooling is , an abstraction which has escaped its handlers .
Nobody can reform it .
First you have to realize that human values are the stuff of madness to a system ; in systems-logic the schools we have are already the schools the system needs ; the only way they could be much improved is to have kids eat , sleep , live , and die there .
    Schools got the way they were at the start of the twentieth century as part of a vast , intensely engineered social revolution in which all major institutions were overhauled to work together in harmonious managerial efficiency .
Ours was to be an improvement on the British system , which once depended on a shared upper-class culture for its coherence .
Ours would be subject to a rational framework of science , law , instruction , and mathematically derived merit .
When Morgan reorganized the American marketplace into a world of cooperating trusts at the end of the nineteenth century , he created a business and financial subsystem to interlink with the subsystem of government , the subsystem of schooling , and other subsystems to regulate every other aspect of national life .
None of this was conspiratorial .
Each increment was rationally defensible .
But the net effect was the destruction of small-town , small-government America , strong families , individual liberty , and a lot of other things people were n't aware they were trading for a regular corporate paycheck .
    A huge price had to be paid for business and government efficiency , a price we still pay in the quality of our existence .
Part of what kids gave up was the prospect of being able to read very well , a historic part of the American genius .
Instead , school had to train them for their role in the new overarching social system .
But spare yourself the agony of thinking of this as a conspiracy .
It was and is a fully rational transaction , the very epitome of rationalization engendered by a group of honorable men , all honorable men--but with decisive help from ordinary citizens , from almost all of us as we gradually lost touch with the fact that being followers instead of leaders , becoming consumers in place of producers , rendered us incompletely human .
It was a naturally occurring conspiracy , one which required no criminal genius .
The real conspirators were ourselves .
When we sold our liberty for the promise of automatic security , we became like children in a conspiracy against growing up , sad children who conspire against their own children , consigning them over and over to the denaturing vats of compulsory state factory schooling .
" " "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>John Taylor Gatto says it best:
    http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/16a.htm [johntaylorgatto.com]"""Before you can reach a point of effectiveness in defending your own children or your principles against the assault of blind social machinery, you have to stop conspiring against yourself by attempting to negotiate with a set of abstract principles and rules which, by its nature, cannot respond.
Under all its disguises, that is what institutional schooling is, an abstraction which has escaped its handlers.
Nobody can reform it.
First you have to realize that human values are the stuff of madness to a system; in systems-logic the schools we have are already the schools the system needs; the only way they could be much improved is to have kids eat, sleep, live, and die there.
    Schools got the way they were at the start of the twentieth century as part of a vast, intensely engineered social revolution in which all major institutions were overhauled to work together in harmonious managerial efficiency.
Ours was to be an improvement on the British system, which once depended on a shared upper-class culture for its coherence.
Ours would be subject to a rational framework of science, law, instruction, and mathematically derived merit.
When Morgan reorganized the American marketplace into a world of cooperating trusts at the end of the nineteenth century, he created a business and financial subsystem to interlink with the subsystem of government, the subsystem of schooling, and other subsystems to regulate every other aspect of national life.
None of this was conspiratorial.
Each increment was rationally defensible.
But the net effect was the destruction of small-town, small-government America, strong families, individual liberty, and a lot of other things people weren't aware they were trading for a regular corporate paycheck.
    A huge price had to be paid for business and government efficiency, a price we still pay in the quality of our existence.
Part of what kids gave up was the prospect of being able to read very well, a historic part of the American genius.
Instead, school had to train them for their role in the new overarching social system.
But spare yourself the agony of thinking of this as a conspiracy.
It was and is a fully rational transaction, the very epitome of rationalization engendered by a group of honorable men, all honorable men--but with decisive help from ordinary citizens, from almost all of us as we gradually lost touch with the fact that being followers instead of leaders, becoming consumers in place of producers, rendered us incompletely human.
It was a naturally occurring conspiracy, one which required no criminal genius.
The real conspirators were ourselves.
When we sold our liberty for the promise of automatic security, we became like children in a conspiracy against growing up, sad children who conspire against their own children, consigning them over and over to the denaturing vats of compulsory state factory schooling.
"""</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206538</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207206</id>
	<title>Re:fired up, huh?</title>
	<author>Glonoinha</author>
	<datestamp>1258975860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As fun as it might be to blame Bush Jr for the gutting of the IT jobs, take a look at history and see who was responsible for bumping up the H1B cap from 65000 a year to over <b>300,000 per year</b> (hint : it rhymes with 'Clinton'.)  Over six years that's 2M Americans pushed out of their job by an H1B.</p><p>Another interesting nugget - Bush Jr was responsible for bringing it back down to the 65,000 per year number.</p><p>Other than that - I completely agree.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As fun as it might be to blame Bush Jr for the gutting of the IT jobs , take a look at history and see who was responsible for bumping up the H1B cap from 65000 a year to over 300,000 per year ( hint : it rhymes with 'Clinton' .
) Over six years that 's 2M Americans pushed out of their job by an H1B.Another interesting nugget - Bush Jr was responsible for bringing it back down to the 65,000 per year number.Other than that - I completely agree .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As fun as it might be to blame Bush Jr for the gutting of the IT jobs, take a look at history and see who was responsible for bumping up the H1B cap from 65000 a year to over 300,000 per year (hint : it rhymes with 'Clinton'.
)  Over six years that's 2M Americans pushed out of their job by an H1B.Another interesting nugget - Bush Jr was responsible for bringing it back down to the 65,000 per year number.Other than that - I completely agree.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205988</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207750</id>
	<title>Re:bucks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258978020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>As for the job sucking, it's actually amazing... if you're one of the few people who's brilliant enough to make a difference. At that level, you'll get tenure no matter how hard you work, and then you have it easy. Six figure salaries are standard at reasonable research universities, and top universities routinely give out 250k+ in addition to the option of consulting on the side and all the other benefits of tenure with almost unlimited freedom.</p></div><p>So, are you one of those brilliant people making 250K+ without having to even try? Or, is that just how it looks from the outside?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Doing good academic research is HARD. The vast majority of current researchers are putting out random crap that will never go anywhere useful because frankly they are not good enough to make real progress.</p></div><p>Or, is it more like the lottery: no one know what's going to succeed and, by random chance, most fail? Maybe your personal biography is one of glorious success without even having to try but I've seen a lot that suggests otherwise.</p><p>IRC, Einstein was working as a patent clerk when he discovered relativity - but maybe things have changed. Nowadays, the guys I see at the top are people who ruthlessly clawed their way up through the scientific bureaucracy - and most of the actual science is done by their post-docs (working for peanuts).</p><p><div class="quote"><p>But academia is one field that does not benefit from having more mediocre people doing make-work.</p></div><p>I don't dispute that the Einsteins have a lot to contribute but don't we also need the technicians who run the sequencers for the human genome project, for example? Personally, I'd like to see science better organized - one big high-throughput crystallography facility rather than all these little mom-and-pop operations doing everything by hand, for example. But is it really true that the only scientific work to be done must be done by the Einsteins - isn't there scientific work to be done that is accessible to committed honest people of ordinary ability?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As for the job sucking , it 's actually amazing... if you 're one of the few people who 's brilliant enough to make a difference .
At that level , you 'll get tenure no matter how hard you work , and then you have it easy .
Six figure salaries are standard at reasonable research universities , and top universities routinely give out 250k + in addition to the option of consulting on the side and all the other benefits of tenure with almost unlimited freedom.So , are you one of those brilliant people making 250K + without having to even try ?
Or , is that just how it looks from the outside ? Doing good academic research is HARD .
The vast majority of current researchers are putting out random crap that will never go anywhere useful because frankly they are not good enough to make real progress.Or , is it more like the lottery : no one know what 's going to succeed and , by random chance , most fail ?
Maybe your personal biography is one of glorious success without even having to try but I 've seen a lot that suggests otherwise.IRC , Einstein was working as a patent clerk when he discovered relativity - but maybe things have changed .
Nowadays , the guys I see at the top are people who ruthlessly clawed their way up through the scientific bureaucracy - and most of the actual science is done by their post-docs ( working for peanuts ) .But academia is one field that does not benefit from having more mediocre people doing make-work.I do n't dispute that the Einsteins have a lot to contribute but do n't we also need the technicians who run the sequencers for the human genome project , for example ?
Personally , I 'd like to see science better organized - one big high-throughput crystallography facility rather than all these little mom-and-pop operations doing everything by hand , for example .
But is it really true that the only scientific work to be done must be done by the Einsteins - is n't there scientific work to be done that is accessible to committed honest people of ordinary ability ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As for the job sucking, it's actually amazing... if you're one of the few people who's brilliant enough to make a difference.
At that level, you'll get tenure no matter how hard you work, and then you have it easy.
Six figure salaries are standard at reasonable research universities, and top universities routinely give out 250k+ in addition to the option of consulting on the side and all the other benefits of tenure with almost unlimited freedom.So, are you one of those brilliant people making 250K+ without having to even try?
Or, is that just how it looks from the outside?Doing good academic research is HARD.
The vast majority of current researchers are putting out random crap that will never go anywhere useful because frankly they are not good enough to make real progress.Or, is it more like the lottery: no one know what's going to succeed and, by random chance, most fail?
Maybe your personal biography is one of glorious success without even having to try but I've seen a lot that suggests otherwise.IRC, Einstein was working as a patent clerk when he discovered relativity - but maybe things have changed.
Nowadays, the guys I see at the top are people who ruthlessly clawed their way up through the scientific bureaucracy - and most of the actual science is done by their post-docs (working for peanuts).But academia is one field that does not benefit from having more mediocre people doing make-work.I don't dispute that the Einsteins have a lot to contribute but don't we also need the technicians who run the sequencers for the human genome project, for example?
Personally, I'd like to see science better organized - one big high-throughput crystallography facility rather than all these little mom-and-pop operations doing everything by hand, for example.
But is it really true that the only scientific work to be done must be done by the Einsteins - isn't there scientific work to be done that is accessible to committed honest people of ordinary ability?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206990</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207090</id>
	<title>Re:Red flag No. 1: Teacher unions like this plan</title>
	<author>frosty\_tsm</author>
	<datestamp>1258975500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have to agree.  Teachers on a whole are good, but teachers unions seem to be run by the ones more interested in themselves than teaching.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have to agree .
Teachers on a whole are good , but teachers unions seem to be run by the ones more interested in themselves than teaching .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have to agree.
Teachers on a whole are good, but teachers unions seem to be run by the ones more interested in themselves than teaching.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206168</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207906</id>
	<title>Re:Teachers really are the problem</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258978740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is she your worse enemy, too? Do you actually talk to each other?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is she your worse enemy , too ?
Do you actually talk to each other ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is she your worse enemy, too?
Do you actually talk to each other?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207112</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30208926</id>
	<title>Ok, right.</title>
	<author>jotaeleemeese</author>
	<datestamp>1258984620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We will let know China and India, who are producing more Engineers and scientists than pretty much anywhere else (and Russia also, who has some serious geniuses out there).</p><p>I find particularly puzzling that people seriously think that it is better to entrust education to people at the local level while ignoring the best of the best that could be gathered around a country the size of the US.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We will let know China and India , who are producing more Engineers and scientists than pretty much anywhere else ( and Russia also , who has some serious geniuses out there ) .I find particularly puzzling that people seriously think that it is better to entrust education to people at the local level while ignoring the best of the best that could be gathered around a country the size of the US .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We will let know China and India, who are producing more Engineers and scientists than pretty much anywhere else (and Russia also, who has some serious geniuses out there).I find particularly puzzling that people seriously think that it is better to entrust education to people at the local level while ignoring the best of the best that could be gathered around a country the size of the US.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206080</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206904</id>
	<title>high parental &amp; teacher expectations needed</title>
	<author>peter303</author>
	<datestamp>1258974780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I just watched a biography of Condi Rice where her father said she had to be  "twice as good" as white people to get ahead of them.  When they visited the  White House as a girl she got the idea maybe she could work there someday.
<br> <br>
P.S. The documentary was favorable about her early years, but brutal about her Bush service.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I just watched a biography of Condi Rice where her father said she had to be " twice as good " as white people to get ahead of them .
When they visited the White House as a girl she got the idea maybe she could work there someday .
P.S. The documentary was favorable about her early years , but brutal about her Bush service .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just watched a biography of Condi Rice where her father said she had to be  "twice as good" as white people to get ahead of them.
When they visited the  White House as a girl she got the idea maybe she could work there someday.
P.S. The documentary was favorable about her early years, but brutal about her Bush service.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30209040</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>misexistentialist</author>
	<datestamp>1258985700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>  Not a direct analogy, but seriously... when you are touching my eyes, my hearts, my lungs, my kidneys... I want you to be pretty qualified, educated, and skilled.</p></div><p>Try finding out whether you doctor is qualified, though, and you'll most likely find most hiding behind the title "doctor." With your life on the line you'd like to think a MASSIVELY OVERQUALIFIED person would help (like a your SUPER-FAST CPU), but the state of medicine is still primitive, and every doctor buries more patients than he cures. In the end most of the best doctors are just able to treat a huge caseload of people without making ridiculous errors that a less stressed medic making 1/10 as much would avoid</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not a direct analogy , but seriously... when you are touching my eyes , my hearts , my lungs , my kidneys... I want you to be pretty qualified , educated , and skilled.Try finding out whether you doctor is qualified , though , and you 'll most likely find most hiding behind the title " doctor .
" With your life on the line you 'd like to think a MASSIVELY OVERQUALIFIED person would help ( like a your SUPER-FAST CPU ) , but the state of medicine is still primitive , and every doctor buries more patients than he cures .
In the end most of the best doctors are just able to treat a huge caseload of people without making ridiculous errors that a less stressed medic making 1/10 as much would avoid</tokentext>
<sentencetext>  Not a direct analogy, but seriously... when you are touching my eyes, my hearts, my lungs, my kidneys... I want you to be pretty qualified, educated, and skilled.Try finding out whether you doctor is qualified, though, and you'll most likely find most hiding behind the title "doctor.
" With your life on the line you'd like to think a MASSIVELY OVERQUALIFIED person would help (like a your SUPER-FAST CPU), but the state of medicine is still primitive, and every doctor buries more patients than he cures.
In the end most of the best doctors are just able to treat a huge caseload of people without making ridiculous errors that a less stressed medic making 1/10 as much would avoid
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207490</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206328</id>
	<title>Re:fired up, huh?</title>
	<author>StuartHankins</author>
	<datestamp>1258972320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wow, an intelligent comment on Slashdot? What is this world coming to?<br> <br>Some of us do what we do only for the thrill of the challenge, the chance to learn something new, and watching what you build come to creation. The hours are long not just because people are being stretched more but because there's a level of interest which becomes an obsession at times. I know when I'm in my "groove" I tend to forget to eat, go home etc but that's part because it's exciting and part because as I get older it comes less frequently than it used to, and catching back up to where I was takes longer the next day.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow , an intelligent comment on Slashdot ?
What is this world coming to ?
Some of us do what we do only for the thrill of the challenge , the chance to learn something new , and watching what you build come to creation .
The hours are long not just because people are being stretched more but because there 's a level of interest which becomes an obsession at times .
I know when I 'm in my " groove " I tend to forget to eat , go home etc but that 's part because it 's exciting and part because as I get older it comes less frequently than it used to , and catching back up to where I was takes longer the next day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow, an intelligent comment on Slashdot?
What is this world coming to?
Some of us do what we do only for the thrill of the challenge, the chance to learn something new, and watching what you build come to creation.
The hours are long not just because people are being stretched more but because there's a level of interest which becomes an obsession at times.
I know when I'm in my "groove" I tend to forget to eat, go home etc but that's part because it's exciting and part because as I get older it comes less frequently than it used to, and catching back up to where I was takes longer the next day.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205988</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205940</id>
	<title>Easier solution:</title>
	<author>h4rr4r</author>
	<datestamp>1258970700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Massive cash awards to US scientists. These kids choose not to go into science because it is not cool. Why is it not cool? Lots of hardwork and small incomes. If you give scientists boat loads of money, they become cool.</p><p>Instead we will waste another $huge\_amount dollars on some lame education effort only to have the kids still want to be Kobe Bryant, or Dr. Dre.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Massive cash awards to US scientists .
These kids choose not to go into science because it is not cool .
Why is it not cool ?
Lots of hardwork and small incomes .
If you give scientists boat loads of money , they become cool.Instead we will waste another $ huge \ _amount dollars on some lame education effort only to have the kids still want to be Kobe Bryant , or Dr. Dre .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Massive cash awards to US scientists.
These kids choose not to go into science because it is not cool.
Why is it not cool?
Lots of hardwork and small incomes.
If you give scientists boat loads of money, they become cool.Instead we will waste another $huge\_amount dollars on some lame education effort only to have the kids still want to be Kobe Bryant, or Dr. Dre.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206314</id>
	<title>Re:soundbite lessons as PSAs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258972260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do you really want someone designing the next ABS system for your car, or doing the load calculations for a bridge who can only concentrate in 30 second spots?  The only way to learn is through hard-work, making some sort of gimmick to help people remember random facts is useless.  It's all about being able to apply the concepts and apply what you learned in one class in another, and finally in real life.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you really want someone designing the next ABS system for your car , or doing the load calculations for a bridge who can only concentrate in 30 second spots ?
The only way to learn is through hard-work , making some sort of gimmick to help people remember random facts is useless .
It 's all about being able to apply the concepts and apply what you learned in one class in another , and finally in real life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you really want someone designing the next ABS system for your car, or doing the load calculations for a bridge who can only concentrate in 30 second spots?
The only way to learn is through hard-work, making some sort of gimmick to help people remember random facts is useless.
It's all about being able to apply the concepts and apply what you learned in one class in another, and finally in real life.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30206040</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30220972</id>
	<title>Re:Easier solution:</title>
	<author>winwar</author>
	<datestamp>1259068380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"And it's not like you can section one part of the body off, it's very helpful to know about the entire thing."</p><p>Sure you can, you pretty much described most modern surgery.  Especially eye doctors.  Specialization is common. Knowledge is nice but I want experience and success.  I'll take a stupid asshole that can operate half asleep over a highly intelligent nice guy doing his first surgery....</p><p>"Not a direct analogy, but seriously... when you are touching my eyes, my hearts, my lungs, my kidneys... I want you to be pretty qualified, educated, and skilled. And I'm willing to pay extra for that."</p><p>It depends on the specialty or lack thereof.  In surgery, experience is important and that tends to equate to time (perhaps to your education component).  But a GP can be replaced by a Nurse Practicioner in most cases.  If a doctor is skilled, he will tend to be qualified.  If a doctor is qualified and/or skilled, who gives a damn about the education.</p><p>I want a doctor that is sufficiently skilled to do the job.  How they get there doesn't really matter.  The real problem is that I as a patient have no real way to determine the skill level of a doctor....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" And it 's not like you can section one part of the body off , it 's very helpful to know about the entire thing .
" Sure you can , you pretty much described most modern surgery .
Especially eye doctors .
Specialization is common .
Knowledge is nice but I want experience and success .
I 'll take a stupid asshole that can operate half asleep over a highly intelligent nice guy doing his first surgery.... " Not a direct analogy , but seriously... when you are touching my eyes , my hearts , my lungs , my kidneys... I want you to be pretty qualified , educated , and skilled .
And I 'm willing to pay extra for that .
" It depends on the specialty or lack thereof .
In surgery , experience is important and that tends to equate to time ( perhaps to your education component ) .
But a GP can be replaced by a Nurse Practicioner in most cases .
If a doctor is skilled , he will tend to be qualified .
If a doctor is qualified and/or skilled , who gives a damn about the education.I want a doctor that is sufficiently skilled to do the job .
How they get there does n't really matter .
The real problem is that I as a patient have no real way to determine the skill level of a doctor... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"And it's not like you can section one part of the body off, it's very helpful to know about the entire thing.
"Sure you can, you pretty much described most modern surgery.
Especially eye doctors.
Specialization is common.
Knowledge is nice but I want experience and success.
I'll take a stupid asshole that can operate half asleep over a highly intelligent nice guy doing his first surgery...."Not a direct analogy, but seriously... when you are touching my eyes, my hearts, my lungs, my kidneys... I want you to be pretty qualified, educated, and skilled.
And I'm willing to pay extra for that.
"It depends on the specialty or lack thereof.
In surgery, experience is important and that tends to equate to time (perhaps to your education component).
But a GP can be replaced by a Nurse Practicioner in most cases.
If a doctor is skilled, he will tend to be qualified.
If a doctor is qualified and/or skilled, who gives a damn about the education.I want a doctor that is sufficiently skilled to do the job.
How they get there doesn't really matter.
The real problem is that I as a patient have no real way to determine the skill level of a doctor....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30207490</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30209754</id>
	<title>Re:Naming?</title>
	<author>WgT2</author>
	<datestamp>1258992540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You mean his policy of using Federal money for Stem Cell Research based on fetuses' stem cells?</p><p>Because Stem Cell Research has worked and businesses have well funded them but not fetus-based research which has been a miserable failure?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You mean his policy of using Federal money for Stem Cell Research based on fetuses ' stem cells ? Because Stem Cell Research has worked and businesses have well funded them but not fetus-based research which has been a miserable failure ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You mean his policy of using Federal money for Stem Cell Research based on fetuses' stem cells?Because Stem Cell Research has worked and businesses have well funded them but not fetus-based research which has been a miserable failure?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_207210.30205920</parent>
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