<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_11_15_222211</id>
	<title>Public School Teachers Selling Lesson Plans Online</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1258310760000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>theodp writes <i>"Thousands of teachers are using websites like <a href="http://www.teacherspayteachers.com/">Teachers Pay Teachers</a> and <a href="http://www.weareteachers.com/">We Are Teachers</a> to cash in on a commodity they used to give away, <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/15/education/15plans.html?em">selling lesson plans online</a> for exercises as simple as M&amp;M sorting and as sophisticated as Shakespeare. While some of this extra money is going to buy books and classroom supplies, the new teacher-entrepreneurs are also spending it on dinners out, mortgage payments, credit card bills, vacation travel and even home renovation, raising questions over who owns material developed for public school classrooms."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>theodp writes " Thousands of teachers are using websites like Teachers Pay Teachers and We Are Teachers to cash in on a commodity they used to give away , selling lesson plans online for exercises as simple as M&amp;M sorting and as sophisticated as Shakespeare .
While some of this extra money is going to buy books and classroom supplies , the new teacher-entrepreneurs are also spending it on dinners out , mortgage payments , credit card bills , vacation travel and even home renovation , raising questions over who owns material developed for public school classrooms .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>theodp writes "Thousands of teachers are using websites like Teachers Pay Teachers and We Are Teachers to cash in on a commodity they used to give away, selling lesson plans online for exercises as simple as M&amp;M sorting and as sophisticated as Shakespeare.
While some of this extra money is going to buy books and classroom supplies, the new teacher-entrepreneurs are also spending it on dinners out, mortgage payments, credit card bills, vacation travel and even home renovation, raising questions over who owns material developed for public school classrooms.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30114142</id>
	<title>Re:What questions?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258378500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your software analogy is erroneous.  It depends 100\% on your contract.  And personally, no matter how much money they offer, I would never sign on for a job that claimed they owned the products of my mind and skills, created during hours for which they were not paying me.  I currently work for a software firm and my contract specifically states that they do not own my "off-clock" hours or products, as long as I do not directly compete with them for a specific client.</p><p>Now before anyone goes ballistic about stealing code and selling it yourself... reread my post give me the benefit of not being a complete moron, and then assume that I am of course not talking about plagiarizing or copying code from work etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your software analogy is erroneous .
It depends 100 \ % on your contract .
And personally , no matter how much money they offer , I would never sign on for a job that claimed they owned the products of my mind and skills , created during hours for which they were not paying me .
I currently work for a software firm and my contract specifically states that they do not own my " off-clock " hours or products , as long as I do not directly compete with them for a specific client.Now before anyone goes ballistic about stealing code and selling it yourself... reread my post give me the benefit of not being a complete moron , and then assume that I am of course not talking about plagiarizing or copying code from work etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your software analogy is erroneous.
It depends 100\% on your contract.
And personally, no matter how much money they offer, I would never sign on for a job that claimed they owned the products of my mind and skills, created during hours for which they were not paying me.
I currently work for a software firm and my contract specifically states that they do not own my "off-clock" hours or products, as long as I do not directly compete with them for a specific client.Now before anyone goes ballistic about stealing code and selling it yourself... reread my post give me the benefit of not being a complete moron, and then assume that I am of course not talking about plagiarizing or copying code from work etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112706</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30114634</id>
	<title>Is it a work for hire?</title>
	<author>davidwr</author>
	<datestamp>1258383480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the teachers are on salary, as most are, anything they develop for use in their own classroom is arguably their employer's.</p><p>Now, if they develop lesson plans and do NOT use them in their own classroom, that's probably a different story.  But that might violate moonlighting rules.</p><p>In any case, this is something that will likely be covered in future collective bargaining agreements.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the teachers are on salary , as most are , anything they develop for use in their own classroom is arguably their employer 's.Now , if they develop lesson plans and do NOT use them in their own classroom , that 's probably a different story .
But that might violate moonlighting rules.In any case , this is something that will likely be covered in future collective bargaining agreements .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the teachers are on salary, as most are, anything they develop for use in their own classroom is arguably their employer's.Now, if they develop lesson plans and do NOT use them in their own classroom, that's probably a different story.
But that might violate moonlighting rules.In any case, this is something that will likely be covered in future collective bargaining agreements.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30118086</id>
	<title>Re:What questions?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258397820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> If you write software for a living, you can't go home and sell your days coding, it belongs to your employer.</p> </div><p>OTOH, if you came up with a coding standards guide on your own time to better facilitate the code you are writing for your day job, does your employer own the copyright on your coding standards guide?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you write software for a living , you ca n't go home and sell your days coding , it belongs to your employer .
OTOH , if you came up with a coding standards guide on your own time to better facilitate the code you are writing for your day job , does your employer own the copyright on your coding standards guide ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext> If you write software for a living, you can't go home and sell your days coding, it belongs to your employer.
OTOH, if you came up with a coding standards guide on your own time to better facilitate the code you are writing for your day job, does your employer own the copyright on your coding standards guide?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112706</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30125860</id>
	<title>Re:What questions?</title>
	<author>Fallingcow</author>
	<datestamp>1258393560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The schools pay the teachers, the lesson plans belong to the school.</p></div> </blockquote><p>Guess it sucks for them that I'm not on the payroll then, huh?  Good luck using my wife's best lesson plans without the (sometimes tiny, sometimes <i>huge</i>) parts I contribute.</p><p>Seriously though, they're hers.  They're paid hours-plus, and time at home isn't part of the "plus".  She's off the clock when she does most of it, and good luck untangling who "owns" it between me, her friends who are teachers, her colleagues at school, and internet resources.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The schools pay the teachers , the lesson plans belong to the school .
Guess it sucks for them that I 'm not on the payroll then , huh ?
Good luck using my wife 's best lesson plans without the ( sometimes tiny , sometimes huge ) parts I contribute.Seriously though , they 're hers .
They 're paid hours-plus , and time at home is n't part of the " plus " .
She 's off the clock when she does most of it , and good luck untangling who " owns " it between me , her friends who are teachers , her colleagues at school , and internet resources .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The schools pay the teachers, the lesson plans belong to the school.
Guess it sucks for them that I'm not on the payroll then, huh?
Good luck using my wife's best lesson plans without the (sometimes tiny, sometimes huge) parts I contribute.Seriously though, they're hers.
They're paid hours-plus, and time at home isn't part of the "plus".
She's off the clock when she does most of it, and good luck untangling who "owns" it between me, her friends who are teachers, her colleagues at school, and internet resources.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112706</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112852</id>
	<title>Lesson plans are not required for the job.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258404540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Lessons plans are not with-in the scope of a teachers job. a teacher can show up and read from the book, assign from the book and give the state mandated test and that IS all we pay for.<br>If you disagree with me, then how come a rotation of substitutes can perform these task for a semester and parent cannot claim the school negligent?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lessons plans are not with-in the scope of a teachers job .
a teacher can show up and read from the book , assign from the book and give the state mandated test and that IS all we pay for.If you disagree with me , then how come a rotation of substitutes can perform these task for a semester and parent can not claim the school negligent ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lessons plans are not with-in the scope of a teachers job.
a teacher can show up and read from the book, assign from the book and give the state mandated test and that IS all we pay for.If you disagree with me, then how come a rotation of substitutes can perform these task for a semester and parent cannot claim the school negligent?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113998</id>
	<title>Re:US Copyright laws</title>
	<author>wireloose</author>
	<datestamp>1258377180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Exactly wrong.  You need to learn more about the situation.  Work for hire rules do not apply in all situations, and especially when contracts exist. Teachers are paid to teach, and little more.  Public school contracts stipulate ownership of developed material, and the norm is for the teachers to own their work.  Otherwise, they'd get paid more.  It's one way that schools avoid paying higher salaries.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly wrong .
You need to learn more about the situation .
Work for hire rules do not apply in all situations , and especially when contracts exist .
Teachers are paid to teach , and little more .
Public school contracts stipulate ownership of developed material , and the norm is for the teachers to own their work .
Otherwise , they 'd get paid more .
It 's one way that schools avoid paying higher salaries .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly wrong.
You need to learn more about the situation.
Work for hire rules do not apply in all situations, and especially when contracts exist.
Teachers are paid to teach, and little more.
Public school contracts stipulate ownership of developed material, and the norm is for the teachers to own their work.
Otherwise, they'd get paid more.
It's one way that schools avoid paying higher salaries.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30126758</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258491180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ha. Reminds me of why I left teaching.</p><p>If, as most Good teachers do, this content and plans were developed at home in their own time then go for it. I have 3+ gig of lesson content, plans assessments etc that I did Not pass over to my last school (or any school for that matter) as these were developed in my own time and I owned the IPR (except some images from google). I have sold some of this and have shared some of it (bartered between colleagues). When a teachers spend weekly 26+ hours in front of children, then another 3+ hours on Yard duty, then the usual admin and then the ongoing hours of bureaucratic garb that plagues the school and its staff these days, then one can assume that most all of this content Does belong to the teacher (most definitely a good one) and I am all for that.</p><p>You can always tell a poor teacher by the product he pedals - unprepared with discontinuous lesson content (probably downloaded without change or coordination from some website).</p><p>As far as I feel now, they can have the content I developed as this stuff is invariably so context and cohort dependent that it is by and large useless to any other Good teacher without considerable amendment and coordination with the 'good' teachers existing schemes of work. Bad teachers either dont know, dont care and tend to complain the loudest (project really!) about how bad and unfocussed the kids are, rather than asking the question "What can I do to<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....".</p><p>Anonymous Coward as I cant be arsed creating yet Another account.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ha .
Reminds me of why I left teaching.If , as most Good teachers do , this content and plans were developed at home in their own time then go for it .
I have 3 + gig of lesson content , plans assessments etc that I did Not pass over to my last school ( or any school for that matter ) as these were developed in my own time and I owned the IPR ( except some images from google ) .
I have sold some of this and have shared some of it ( bartered between colleagues ) .
When a teachers spend weekly 26 + hours in front of children , then another 3 + hours on Yard duty , then the usual admin and then the ongoing hours of bureaucratic garb that plagues the school and its staff these days , then one can assume that most all of this content Does belong to the teacher ( most definitely a good one ) and I am all for that.You can always tell a poor teacher by the product he pedals - unprepared with discontinuous lesson content ( probably downloaded without change or coordination from some website ) .As far as I feel now , they can have the content I developed as this stuff is invariably so context and cohort dependent that it is by and large useless to any other Good teacher without considerable amendment and coordination with the 'good ' teachers existing schemes of work .
Bad teachers either dont know , dont care and tend to complain the loudest ( project really !
) about how bad and unfocussed the kids are , rather than asking the question " What can I do to .... " .Anonymous Coward as I cant be arsed creating yet Another account .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ha.
Reminds me of why I left teaching.If, as most Good teachers do, this content and plans were developed at home in their own time then go for it.
I have 3+ gig of lesson content, plans assessments etc that I did Not pass over to my last school (or any school for that matter) as these were developed in my own time and I owned the IPR (except some images from google).
I have sold some of this and have shared some of it (bartered between colleagues).
When a teachers spend weekly 26+ hours in front of children, then another 3+ hours on Yard duty, then the usual admin and then the ongoing hours of bureaucratic garb that plagues the school and its staff these days, then one can assume that most all of this content Does belong to the teacher (most definitely a good one) and I am all for that.You can always tell a poor teacher by the product he pedals - unprepared with discontinuous lesson content (probably downloaded without change or coordination from some website).As far as I feel now, they can have the content I developed as this stuff is invariably so context and cohort dependent that it is by and large useless to any other Good teacher without considerable amendment and coordination with the 'good' teachers existing schemes of work.
Bad teachers either dont know, dont care and tend to complain the loudest (project really!
) about how bad and unfocussed the kids are, rather than asking the question "What can I do to ....".Anonymous Coward as I cant be arsed creating yet Another account.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30115636</id>
	<title>Re:Not true</title>
	<author>alta</author>
	<datestamp>1258388280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are you limiting your argument tot he university level?  I don't see this applying to grade school.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Works Made for Hire. -- (1) a work prepared by an employee within the scope of his or her employment;</p> </div><p> Yes, a teacher is expected to do lesson plans.  And if those lesson plans were done at school, then they belong to the school  A college professor DOES have time to do this, gradeschool no.  Teachers put in more non-paid hours than many other professional level jobs.  They require an extreme level of dedication,and in general the teachers are under paid.</p><p>So, yes, teachers are expected to do lesson plans, however no provisions are made to give them time to do so.  I would say that it's understood they are to use their personal time to do that, therefore they are NOT work for hire.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Are you limiting your argument tot he university level ?
I do n't see this applying to grade school.Works Made for Hire .
-- ( 1 ) a work prepared by an employee within the scope of his or her employment ; Yes , a teacher is expected to do lesson plans .
And if those lesson plans were done at school , then they belong to the school A college professor DOES have time to do this , gradeschool no .
Teachers put in more non-paid hours than many other professional level jobs .
They require an extreme level of dedication,and in general the teachers are under paid.So , yes , teachers are expected to do lesson plans , however no provisions are made to give them time to do so .
I would say that it 's understood they are to use their personal time to do that , therefore they are NOT work for hire .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are you limiting your argument tot he university level?
I don't see this applying to grade school.Works Made for Hire.
-- (1) a work prepared by an employee within the scope of his or her employment;  Yes, a teacher is expected to do lesson plans.
And if those lesson plans were done at school, then they belong to the school  A college professor DOES have time to do this, gradeschool no.
Teachers put in more non-paid hours than many other professional level jobs.
They require an extreme level of dedication,and in general the teachers are under paid.So, yes, teachers are expected to do lesson plans, however no provisions are made to give them time to do so.
I would say that it's understood they are to use their personal time to do that, therefore they are NOT work for hire.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30114168</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113030</id>
	<title>Free Market Incentives ...</title>
	<author>Gopal.V</author>
	<datestamp>1258363620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Why would a teacher be forced to give up his/her lesson plans for free? That would be communism in blatant terms. Because no matter how good or bad the lesson plan is, the teacher gets the same reward - nothing.
</p><p>
On the other hand, having to pay for it produces an economy of quality. The people who develop the better (or well, better known) lesson plan will be given an incentive to keep doing so. The system works as long as there is very little policing of these norms and that society as a whole profits from this "sale" of intellectual property (finally, a place where I can use that for real).
</p><p>
This might seems strange coming from a student brought of socialist kerala, opposer of DRM and sw patents. But here's where I draw the line, I do not object to the sale of lesson plans. I do object to policing of the system to prevent fair use of it (which is a whole tarkin effect in itself).
</p><p>
Plus it is definitely a constructive sale, if you can build something up in your work and sell it so that *another student* gets a better education, then it counts as a win-win situation as far as the end user (i.e student) is concerned.
</p><p>
So good for the teachers who write them and good for the teachers who use 'em. This is just meta-textbook 2.0 in action<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why would a teacher be forced to give up his/her lesson plans for free ?
That would be communism in blatant terms .
Because no matter how good or bad the lesson plan is , the teacher gets the same reward - nothing .
On the other hand , having to pay for it produces an economy of quality .
The people who develop the better ( or well , better known ) lesson plan will be given an incentive to keep doing so .
The system works as long as there is very little policing of these norms and that society as a whole profits from this " sale " of intellectual property ( finally , a place where I can use that for real ) .
This might seems strange coming from a student brought of socialist kerala , opposer of DRM and sw patents .
But here 's where I draw the line , I do not object to the sale of lesson plans .
I do object to policing of the system to prevent fair use of it ( which is a whole tarkin effect in itself ) .
Plus it is definitely a constructive sale , if you can build something up in your work and sell it so that * another student * gets a better education , then it counts as a win-win situation as far as the end user ( i.e student ) is concerned .
So good for the teachers who write them and good for the teachers who use 'em .
This is just meta-textbook 2.0 in action : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Why would a teacher be forced to give up his/her lesson plans for free?
That would be communism in blatant terms.
Because no matter how good or bad the lesson plan is, the teacher gets the same reward - nothing.
On the other hand, having to pay for it produces an economy of quality.
The people who develop the better (or well, better known) lesson plan will be given an incentive to keep doing so.
The system works as long as there is very little policing of these norms and that society as a whole profits from this "sale" of intellectual property (finally, a place where I can use that for real).
This might seems strange coming from a student brought of socialist kerala, opposer of DRM and sw patents.
But here's where I draw the line, I do not object to the sale of lesson plans.
I do object to policing of the system to prevent fair use of it (which is a whole tarkin effect in itself).
Plus it is definitely a constructive sale, if you can build something up in your work and sell it so that *another student* gets a better education, then it counts as a win-win situation as far as the end user (i.e student) is concerned.
So good for the teachers who write them and good for the teachers who use 'em.
This is just meta-textbook 2.0 in action :)
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30116136</id>
	<title>Not true either</title>
	<author>celtic\_hackr</author>
	<datestamp>1258390620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sorry, but you're wrong. the teachers are hired to teach, they are not hired necessarily to make lesson plans. They are not hired to make lesson plans and unless it is spelled out in their contracts that they are expected to write their own lesson plans it is not part of their job. Under your scenario, if a teacher bought and used a lesson plan, and only changed a few things here and there the copyright would go to the district. Which of course, is a violation of the section of the copyright law about derivative works belonging to the original author (in this case the copyright owner of the original lesson plan the teacher in question modified).<br> <br>
Of course you're partly right, as copyright law is anything but cut and dry. You're also, partly wrong on the software bit. It's fairly established by court precedent, that coders, who create software in the off hours that are "unrelated" to the work they do for the company belongs by default to the author and not the company. Which is why it is so critical to read contracts before accepting a job. Contracts can change the status quo and defaults. And of course so can courts, which is why it is never a good idea to develop anything on your own in the field in which you work without first getting a release from your employer.<br> <br>
The reason why, at the college level, teacher's work are by default not considered works-for-hire, is because, they too are hired as teachers and not drafters of lesson plans. There are cases and contracts that alter this default. Again, it's best to get this spelled out in your contract so it is cut-and-dry. Which is also, never foolproof, as courts can and have thrown out contracts whole cloth and re-written them as they see fit.  So, again nothing is really ever cut and dry if it deals with copyright or contracts even. At least in the USA.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry , but you 're wrong .
the teachers are hired to teach , they are not hired necessarily to make lesson plans .
They are not hired to make lesson plans and unless it is spelled out in their contracts that they are expected to write their own lesson plans it is not part of their job .
Under your scenario , if a teacher bought and used a lesson plan , and only changed a few things here and there the copyright would go to the district .
Which of course , is a violation of the section of the copyright law about derivative works belonging to the original author ( in this case the copyright owner of the original lesson plan the teacher in question modified ) .
Of course you 're partly right , as copyright law is anything but cut and dry .
You 're also , partly wrong on the software bit .
It 's fairly established by court precedent , that coders , who create software in the off hours that are " unrelated " to the work they do for the company belongs by default to the author and not the company .
Which is why it is so critical to read contracts before accepting a job .
Contracts can change the status quo and defaults .
And of course so can courts , which is why it is never a good idea to develop anything on your own in the field in which you work without first getting a release from your employer .
The reason why , at the college level , teacher 's work are by default not considered works-for-hire , is because , they too are hired as teachers and not drafters of lesson plans .
There are cases and contracts that alter this default .
Again , it 's best to get this spelled out in your contract so it is cut-and-dry .
Which is also , never foolproof , as courts can and have thrown out contracts whole cloth and re-written them as they see fit .
So , again nothing is really ever cut and dry if it deals with copyright or contracts even .
At least in the USA .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry, but you're wrong.
the teachers are hired to teach, they are not hired necessarily to make lesson plans.
They are not hired to make lesson plans and unless it is spelled out in their contracts that they are expected to write their own lesson plans it is not part of their job.
Under your scenario, if a teacher bought and used a lesson plan, and only changed a few things here and there the copyright would go to the district.
Which of course, is a violation of the section of the copyright law about derivative works belonging to the original author (in this case the copyright owner of the original lesson plan the teacher in question modified).
Of course you're partly right, as copyright law is anything but cut and dry.
You're also, partly wrong on the software bit.
It's fairly established by court precedent, that coders, who create software in the off hours that are "unrelated" to the work they do for the company belongs by default to the author and not the company.
Which is why it is so critical to read contracts before accepting a job.
Contracts can change the status quo and defaults.
And of course so can courts, which is why it is never a good idea to develop anything on your own in the field in which you work without first getting a release from your employer.
The reason why, at the college level, teacher's work are by default not considered works-for-hire, is because, they too are hired as teachers and not drafters of lesson plans.
There are cases and contracts that alter this default.
Again, it's best to get this spelled out in your contract so it is cut-and-dry.
Which is also, never foolproof, as courts can and have thrown out contracts whole cloth and re-written them as they see fit.
So, again nothing is really ever cut and dry if it deals with copyright or contracts even.
At least in the USA.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30114168</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112706</id>
	<title>Re:What questions?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258402500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I fail to see how this raises any questions too. The schools pay the teachers, the lesson plans belong to the school.
<br> <br>
I work for a university. Any work-related ideas I come up with belong to the university. In exchange, I get paid, even when I'm not thinking of anything useful. If you write software for a living, you can't go home and sell your days coding, it belongs to your employer. It's not compulsory, it's an exchange where you get money to buy shiny things and your employer get whatever they pay you for. No different for teachers. Poor pay is a different story, and doesn't change this one.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I fail to see how this raises any questions too .
The schools pay the teachers , the lesson plans belong to the school .
I work for a university .
Any work-related ideas I come up with belong to the university .
In exchange , I get paid , even when I 'm not thinking of anything useful .
If you write software for a living , you ca n't go home and sell your days coding , it belongs to your employer .
It 's not compulsory , it 's an exchange where you get money to buy shiny things and your employer get whatever they pay you for .
No different for teachers .
Poor pay is a different story , and does n't change this one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I fail to see how this raises any questions too.
The schools pay the teachers, the lesson plans belong to the school.
I work for a university.
Any work-related ideas I come up with belong to the university.
In exchange, I get paid, even when I'm not thinking of anything useful.
If you write software for a living, you can't go home and sell your days coding, it belongs to your employer.
It's not compulsory, it's an exchange where you get money to buy shiny things and your employer get whatever they pay you for.
No different for teachers.
Poor pay is a different story, and doesn't change this one.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112614</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30114660</id>
	<title>Dinners out, mortgage payments, credit card bills</title>
	<author>Zarniwoop</author>
	<datestamp>1258383600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unbelievable.  Why would somebody making a sweet $34,000 after a mandated four-year education feel the need to supplement their income!</p><p>We're paying them a fair wage for their work.  Salary, so the "extra time" they spend outside of school (like they need that!) lesson planning, well, that's figured in as well.</p><p>Those greedy bastards.  Trying to afford things like food, housing and clothes.</p><p>BTW: Google ad as I type this is <i>Want to Teach Special Ed?</i>  Noooooooooooo.  Nooo!  No.  No sir!  No, I do not.  No. Thank you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unbelievable .
Why would somebody making a sweet $ 34,000 after a mandated four-year education feel the need to supplement their income ! We 're paying them a fair wage for their work .
Salary , so the " extra time " they spend outside of school ( like they need that !
) lesson planning , well , that 's figured in as well.Those greedy bastards .
Trying to afford things like food , housing and clothes.BTW : Google ad as I type this is Want to Teach Special Ed ?
Noooooooooooo. Nooo !
No. No sir !
No , I do not .
No. Thank you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unbelievable.
Why would somebody making a sweet $34,000 after a mandated four-year education feel the need to supplement their income!We're paying them a fair wage for their work.
Salary, so the "extra time" they spend outside of school (like they need that!
) lesson planning, well, that's figured in as well.Those greedy bastards.
Trying to afford things like food, housing and clothes.BTW: Google ad as I type this is Want to Teach Special Ed?
Noooooooooooo.  Nooo!
No.  No sir!
No, I do not.
No. Thank you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30119314</id>
	<title>Tech journalist-turned-math teacher perspective</title>
	<author>Sam Williams</author>
	<datestamp>1258401420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is this not directly analogous to software written (or tested) on the taxpayer dime? If there's a market for lesson plans, there's a market. A teacher should be free to make a profit off his or her ingenuity and/or hard work while at the same time increasing the efficiency of quality lesson distribution. A teacher shouldn't be free, however, to block redistribution of a lesson plan once sold. In other words, no restrictive copyrights, patents, timebombs, or whatever. For some reason, the emotions surrounding teacher pay, workload, respect, etc. seem to be clouding this particular issue.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is this not directly analogous to software written ( or tested ) on the taxpayer dime ?
If there 's a market for lesson plans , there 's a market .
A teacher should be free to make a profit off his or her ingenuity and/or hard work while at the same time increasing the efficiency of quality lesson distribution .
A teacher should n't be free , however , to block redistribution of a lesson plan once sold .
In other words , no restrictive copyrights , patents , timebombs , or whatever .
For some reason , the emotions surrounding teacher pay , workload , respect , etc .
seem to be clouding this particular issue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is this not directly analogous to software written (or tested) on the taxpayer dime?
If there's a market for lesson plans, there's a market.
A teacher should be free to make a profit off his or her ingenuity and/or hard work while at the same time increasing the efficiency of quality lesson distribution.
A teacher shouldn't be free, however, to block redistribution of a lesson plan once sold.
In other words, no restrictive copyrights, patents, timebombs, or whatever.
For some reason, the emotions surrounding teacher pay, workload, respect, etc.
seem to be clouding this particular issue.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30119464</id>
	<title>Astounding...</title>
	<author>farthew</author>
	<datestamp>1258401960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>how many people feel fit to pontificate on this subject with absolutely no qualifications to do so.</p><p>I'm sorry, but teaching at a University is not remotely adequate.  I got my MS in Mathematics, and have several PhD friends who have come to visit my classes.  They UNIVERSALLY leave looking disheveled, muttering about how they don't understand how anyone can DO that all day long.</p><p>Many primary &amp; secondary school teachers treat their curricula with a sort of defacto open-source model.  They willingly share individual tricks, lesson plans, etc., with other teachers who ask.  If they have been around the block, and their curricula is really robust, solid, complete, pick another adjective, then sometimes they package it up with a pretty bow and sell it at NCTM conferences.  Someone else COULD do what they did, but it might be worth a few buck not to HAVE to.</p><p>As a teacher, it is appalling to me that folks seem to think teachers don't deserve to make a little side money.  It has already been covered in previous posts that the "cushy" vacation scheme is not really the full picture.  If you count the extra hours teachers work, we don't get much more time off than anyone else.  We just take it all at once.  And it has been my experience that most people who "claim" they work a 60 to 80 hour week do nothing of the sort.  I am completely tied to my classroom for 12 hours every day.  Sometimes I can't even go pee for 3 hours, because I can't afford the break, or because I have back-to-back classes (I work at a charter school, so we don't have a union).  Forget about "coffee breaks" &amp; whatever else all you normal people are allowed to take.  If I didn't have the day off, you can bet your boots I wouldn't have time to be posting here.</p><p>Any public school that has the time to complain about teachers doing a sideline for material they created should be shut down for wasting their resources.  If the school had it's act together enough to profit from creating curriculum, they should have been able to support the teacher in such a way that the teacher didn't need to create all their curriculum at home in the first place.  Most schools don't have their act together, so kudos to their teachers for taking the initiative.  It only yields good publicity for the school anyway - my school would love to claim that our math teachers' curriculum is being adopted by other schools, even if they weren't making any money from it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>how many people feel fit to pontificate on this subject with absolutely no qualifications to do so.I 'm sorry , but teaching at a University is not remotely adequate .
I got my MS in Mathematics , and have several PhD friends who have come to visit my classes .
They UNIVERSALLY leave looking disheveled , muttering about how they do n't understand how anyone can DO that all day long.Many primary &amp; secondary school teachers treat their curricula with a sort of defacto open-source model .
They willingly share individual tricks , lesson plans , etc. , with other teachers who ask .
If they have been around the block , and their curricula is really robust , solid , complete , pick another adjective , then sometimes they package it up with a pretty bow and sell it at NCTM conferences .
Someone else COULD do what they did , but it might be worth a few buck not to HAVE to.As a teacher , it is appalling to me that folks seem to think teachers do n't deserve to make a little side money .
It has already been covered in previous posts that the " cushy " vacation scheme is not really the full picture .
If you count the extra hours teachers work , we do n't get much more time off than anyone else .
We just take it all at once .
And it has been my experience that most people who " claim " they work a 60 to 80 hour week do nothing of the sort .
I am completely tied to my classroom for 12 hours every day .
Sometimes I ca n't even go pee for 3 hours , because I ca n't afford the break , or because I have back-to-back classes ( I work at a charter school , so we do n't have a union ) .
Forget about " coffee breaks " &amp; whatever else all you normal people are allowed to take .
If I did n't have the day off , you can bet your boots I would n't have time to be posting here.Any public school that has the time to complain about teachers doing a sideline for material they created should be shut down for wasting their resources .
If the school had it 's act together enough to profit from creating curriculum , they should have been able to support the teacher in such a way that the teacher did n't need to create all their curriculum at home in the first place .
Most schools do n't have their act together , so kudos to their teachers for taking the initiative .
It only yields good publicity for the school anyway - my school would love to claim that our math teachers ' curriculum is being adopted by other schools , even if they were n't making any money from it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>how many people feel fit to pontificate on this subject with absolutely no qualifications to do so.I'm sorry, but teaching at a University is not remotely adequate.
I got my MS in Mathematics, and have several PhD friends who have come to visit my classes.
They UNIVERSALLY leave looking disheveled, muttering about how they don't understand how anyone can DO that all day long.Many primary &amp; secondary school teachers treat their curricula with a sort of defacto open-source model.
They willingly share individual tricks, lesson plans, etc., with other teachers who ask.
If they have been around the block, and their curricula is really robust, solid, complete, pick another adjective, then sometimes they package it up with a pretty bow and sell it at NCTM conferences.
Someone else COULD do what they did, but it might be worth a few buck not to HAVE to.As a teacher, it is appalling to me that folks seem to think teachers don't deserve to make a little side money.
It has already been covered in previous posts that the "cushy" vacation scheme is not really the full picture.
If you count the extra hours teachers work, we don't get much more time off than anyone else.
We just take it all at once.
And it has been my experience that most people who "claim" they work a 60 to 80 hour week do nothing of the sort.
I am completely tied to my classroom for 12 hours every day.
Sometimes I can't even go pee for 3 hours, because I can't afford the break, or because I have back-to-back classes (I work at a charter school, so we don't have a union).
Forget about "coffee breaks" &amp; whatever else all you normal people are allowed to take.
If I didn't have the day off, you can bet your boots I wouldn't have time to be posting here.Any public school that has the time to complain about teachers doing a sideline for material they created should be shut down for wasting their resources.
If the school had it's act together enough to profit from creating curriculum, they should have been able to support the teacher in such a way that the teacher didn't need to create all their curriculum at home in the first place.
Most schools don't have their act together, so kudos to their teachers for taking the initiative.
It only yields good publicity for the school anyway - my school would love to claim that our math teachers' curriculum is being adopted by other schools, even if they weren't making any money from it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30114112</id>
	<title>Surprise?</title>
	<author>paragon1</author>
	<datestamp>1258378140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And this would be a perfect example of why teachers need to be paid more.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And this would be a perfect example of why teachers need to be paid more .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And this would be a perfect example of why teachers need to be paid more.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112592</id>
	<title>*First post..</title>
	<author>stillpixel</author>
	<datestamp>1258314720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>The teacher owns the material, it is they who develops it and in no way has to do with the schools.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The teacher owns the material , it is they who develops it and in no way has to do with the schools .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The teacher owns the material, it is they who develops it and in no way has to do with the schools.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113282</id>
	<title>wrong focus</title>
	<author>Tom</author>
	<datestamp>1258367280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Quite honestly, as long as it helps improve the quality of education - and making them public plus opening competition via a marketplace is likely to do that - what the fuck do you care if someone profits? Have we dropped so low already that we're jealous of the winner, even in a win-win situation?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Quite honestly , as long as it helps improve the quality of education - and making them public plus opening competition via a marketplace is likely to do that - what the fuck do you care if someone profits ?
Have we dropped so low already that we 're jealous of the winner , even in a win-win situation ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Quite honestly, as long as it helps improve the quality of education - and making them public plus opening competition via a marketplace is likely to do that - what the fuck do you care if someone profits?
Have we dropped so low already that we're jealous of the winner, even in a win-win situation?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30116276</id>
	<title>Re:You all have no idea</title>
	<author>ucblockhead</author>
	<datestamp>1258391340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My wife is also a third grade teacher, here in the Bay Area, and her experience is about the same.  We went to college together and she's actually got a year of post-bachelor's work and yet I make more than double what she does.  My wife's salary would barely cover the mortgage of the average house in our area.</p><p>I find the "only works 180 days" think really irritating because it completely ignores all the after-hours work teachers like my wife does.  She's in her class preparing for weeks before classes start and often grading or doing prep work in the evenings, but somehow that doesn't count because that isn't in the official schedule.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My wife is also a third grade teacher , here in the Bay Area , and her experience is about the same .
We went to college together and she 's actually got a year of post-bachelor 's work and yet I make more than double what she does .
My wife 's salary would barely cover the mortgage of the average house in our area.I find the " only works 180 days " think really irritating because it completely ignores all the after-hours work teachers like my wife does .
She 's in her class preparing for weeks before classes start and often grading or doing prep work in the evenings , but somehow that does n't count because that is n't in the official schedule .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My wife is also a third grade teacher, here in the Bay Area, and her experience is about the same.
We went to college together and she's actually got a year of post-bachelor's work and yet I make more than double what she does.
My wife's salary would barely cover the mortgage of the average house in our area.I find the "only works 180 days" think really irritating because it completely ignores all the after-hours work teachers like my wife does.
She's in her class preparing for weeks before classes start and often grading or doing prep work in the evenings, but somehow that doesn't count because that isn't in the official schedule.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30114806</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30121252</id>
	<title>Re:Not true</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258365120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>   Someone mentioned this earlier. The 'side projects' used in developing the product one is actually hired to create are not owned by the company. The end product is certainly owned by the company. The functions you write at work are owned by the company. A program written at home to scan and verify code syntax is not owned by the company. The program written at work, after clocking out, that finds the next prime number without a supercomputer is not owned by the company. The song generated during the hour of company time you wasted writing down the song you had pop into your head is not owned by the company. The M&amp;M counting exercise you think of at home and buy the supplies for is not owned by the school. The idea of the two-liter-coke-bottle-vortex demonstration you taped together after hours at the school is not owned by the school.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This can all be determined exactly if it is exactly stated in a contract.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Furthermore, it seems to me the mentioned case would allow the school to own the two taped together coke bottles if the teacher made it during school hours, but not the idea of creating more, similar demonstrations.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Someone mentioned this earlier .
The 'side projects ' used in developing the product one is actually hired to create are not owned by the company .
The end product is certainly owned by the company .
The functions you write at work are owned by the company .
A program written at home to scan and verify code syntax is not owned by the company .
The program written at work , after clocking out , that finds the next prime number without a supercomputer is not owned by the company .
The song generated during the hour of company time you wasted writing down the song you had pop into your head is not owned by the company .
The M&amp;M counting exercise you think of at home and buy the supplies for is not owned by the school .
The idea of the two-liter-coke-bottle-vortex demonstration you taped together after hours at the school is not owned by the school .
      This can all be determined exactly if it is exactly stated in a contract .
      Furthermore , it seems to me the mentioned case would allow the school to own the two taped together coke bottles if the teacher made it during school hours , but not the idea of creating more , similar demonstrations .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>   Someone mentioned this earlier.
The 'side projects' used in developing the product one is actually hired to create are not owned by the company.
The end product is certainly owned by the company.
The functions you write at work are owned by the company.
A program written at home to scan and verify code syntax is not owned by the company.
The program written at work, after clocking out, that finds the next prime number without a supercomputer is not owned by the company.
The song generated during the hour of company time you wasted writing down the song you had pop into your head is not owned by the company.
The M&amp;M counting exercise you think of at home and buy the supplies for is not owned by the school.
The idea of the two-liter-coke-bottle-vortex demonstration you taped together after hours at the school is not owned by the school.
      This can all be determined exactly if it is exactly stated in a contract.
      Furthermore, it seems to me the mentioned case would allow the school to own the two taped together coke bottles if the teacher made it during school hours, but not the idea of creating more, similar demonstrations.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30114168</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30115174</id>
	<title>Re:US Copyright laws</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258386360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>Lesson plans meet the definition of "work for hire" under US copyright laws and as such are owned by the school system or municipality unless there are express agreements giving the rights to the teachers.</i></p><p>Maybe, maybe not, but there's no way you can make such a blanket statement without knowing the situation at hand.  If it's a lesson plan tailored to the work that the teacher does at that school, sure.  However, such a plan would probably not be marketable.  If it's a general-purpose teaching tool that would be generalizable to a particular topic - like the sort of thing you might find most marketable - I think a very credible case would be made that the materials are distinct from the teacher's day job, and thus not subject to "work for hire".</p><p>Just because you hire me, doesn't mean you own everything I do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lesson plans meet the definition of " work for hire " under US copyright laws and as such are owned by the school system or municipality unless there are express agreements giving the rights to the teachers.Maybe , maybe not , but there 's no way you can make such a blanket statement without knowing the situation at hand .
If it 's a lesson plan tailored to the work that the teacher does at that school , sure .
However , such a plan would probably not be marketable .
If it 's a general-purpose teaching tool that would be generalizable to a particular topic - like the sort of thing you might find most marketable - I think a very credible case would be made that the materials are distinct from the teacher 's day job , and thus not subject to " work for hire " .Just because you hire me , does n't mean you own everything I do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Lesson plans meet the definition of "work for hire" under US copyright laws and as such are owned by the school system or municipality unless there are express agreements giving the rights to the teachers.Maybe, maybe not, but there's no way you can make such a blanket statement without knowing the situation at hand.
If it's a lesson plan tailored to the work that the teacher does at that school, sure.
However, such a plan would probably not be marketable.
If it's a general-purpose teaching tool that would be generalizable to a particular topic - like the sort of thing you might find most marketable - I think a very credible case would be made that the materials are distinct from the teacher's day job, and thus not subject to "work for hire".Just because you hire me, doesn't mean you own everything I do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113194</id>
	<title>Not information selling</title>
	<author>pspahn</author>
	<datestamp>1258365960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The knowledge teachers include in their lesson plans is not what's for sale here. It's the methodology teachers use to <i>engage</i> the students that is important.
<br>
<br>
If any teacher, public or private, wishes to take what's convenient, they can buy a ready made lesson plan, just add students. If they want to develop their own, well that's work now isn't it?</htmltext>
<tokenext>The knowledge teachers include in their lesson plans is not what 's for sale here .
It 's the methodology teachers use to engage the students that is important .
If any teacher , public or private , wishes to take what 's convenient , they can buy a ready made lesson plan , just add students .
If they want to develop their own , well that 's work now is n't it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The knowledge teachers include in their lesson plans is not what's for sale here.
It's the methodology teachers use to engage the students that is important.
If any teacher, public or private, wishes to take what's convenient, they can buy a ready made lesson plan, just add students.
If they want to develop their own, well that's work now isn't it?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30121134</id>
	<title>So, when you publish a textbook</title>
	<author>weston</author>
	<datestamp>1258364700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>I work for a university. Any work-related ideas I come up with belong to the university.</i></p><p>I presume, then, it's an uncommon arrangement for faculty to get any kind of royalties or other compensation for authoring textbooks or other works?</p><p><i>If you write software for a living, you can't go home and sell your days coding, it belongs to your employer.</i></p><p>Au contraire. In fact, on a number of occasions, I've negotiated precisely that arrangement and refused to sign employment agreements that didn't respect some semblance of it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I work for a university .
Any work-related ideas I come up with belong to the university.I presume , then , it 's an uncommon arrangement for faculty to get any kind of royalties or other compensation for authoring textbooks or other works ? If you write software for a living , you ca n't go home and sell your days coding , it belongs to your employer.Au contraire .
In fact , on a number of occasions , I 've negotiated precisely that arrangement and refused to sign employment agreements that did n't respect some semblance of it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work for a university.
Any work-related ideas I come up with belong to the university.I presume, then, it's an uncommon arrangement for faculty to get any kind of royalties or other compensation for authoring textbooks or other works?If you write software for a living, you can't go home and sell your days coding, it belongs to your employer.Au contraire.
In fact, on a number of occasions, I've negotiated precisely that arrangement and refused to sign employment agreements that didn't respect some semblance of it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112706</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30115890</id>
	<title>Re:What questions?</title>
	<author>nomadic</author>
	<datestamp>1258389540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>They make 6 figures in New York</i>
<br>
<br>
After working for 20 years, with a masters degree, a NY teacher will just start breaking 6 figures near the end of their career.<br>
<br>
<i>And the median wage in the US is around 30-40K.</i>
<br>
<br>
And most people in the US lack a bachelor's degree.  In terms of median wages for bachelor's degrees, teachers are near the bottom.</htmltext>
<tokenext>They make 6 figures in New York After working for 20 years , with a masters degree , a NY teacher will just start breaking 6 figures near the end of their career .
And the median wage in the US is around 30-40K .
And most people in the US lack a bachelor 's degree .
In terms of median wages for bachelor 's degrees , teachers are near the bottom .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They make 6 figures in New York


After working for 20 years, with a masters degree, a NY teacher will just start breaking 6 figures near the end of their career.
And the median wage in the US is around 30-40K.
And most people in the US lack a bachelor's degree.
In terms of median wages for bachelor's degrees, teachers are near the bottom.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30114834</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113874</id>
	<title>Simple Solution</title>
	<author>Aaron\_Pike</author>
	<datestamp>1258375740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I teach math and computer science at a public school. I have my own curriculum (more or less), which I haven't sold to anybody (yet). I'd like to have the option, though, which is why I only work on it when I'm not at work.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I teach math and computer science at a public school .
I have my own curriculum ( more or less ) , which I have n't sold to anybody ( yet ) .
I 'd like to have the option , though , which is why I only work on it when I 'm not at work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I teach math and computer science at a public school.
I have my own curriculum (more or less), which I haven't sold to anybody (yet).
I'd like to have the option, though, which is why I only work on it when I'm not at work.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30117012</id>
	<title>It's developed process, the teachers own it.</title>
	<author>TBone</author>
	<datestamp>1258394340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If we want to move to an education system whereby teachers are valued based on their ability to teach, and the performance of their students, then the teachers own their lesson plans.  This is assuming, of course, that they developed the plan in the first place.  Let's just say that's the case in order to make the discussion clearer.

</p><p>Teachers, good ones, develop their methods for teaching students.  If those methods lead to better student understanding, then let them sell them to other teachers.  It's really no different than all of the stupid process patents that we rail over, except they're not actually trying to lock them away, they're trying to share them with their peer group and get themselves some benefit in the process.

</p><p>I don't see a big deal here.  They figured out how to build a better mousetrap, let them market it.  Unless a school district contains similar "work product" provisions in their teacher contracts that many tech people have in theirs, the schools have no right to the processes and products developed by the teachers for their use.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If we want to move to an education system whereby teachers are valued based on their ability to teach , and the performance of their students , then the teachers own their lesson plans .
This is assuming , of course , that they developed the plan in the first place .
Let 's just say that 's the case in order to make the discussion clearer .
Teachers , good ones , develop their methods for teaching students .
If those methods lead to better student understanding , then let them sell them to other teachers .
It 's really no different than all of the stupid process patents that we rail over , except they 're not actually trying to lock them away , they 're trying to share them with their peer group and get themselves some benefit in the process .
I do n't see a big deal here .
They figured out how to build a better mousetrap , let them market it .
Unless a school district contains similar " work product " provisions in their teacher contracts that many tech people have in theirs , the schools have no right to the processes and products developed by the teachers for their use .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If we want to move to an education system whereby teachers are valued based on their ability to teach, and the performance of their students, then the teachers own their lesson plans.
This is assuming, of course, that they developed the plan in the first place.
Let's just say that's the case in order to make the discussion clearer.
Teachers, good ones, develop their methods for teaching students.
If those methods lead to better student understanding, then let them sell them to other teachers.
It's really no different than all of the stupid process patents that we rail over, except they're not actually trying to lock them away, they're trying to share them with their peer group and get themselves some benefit in the process.
I don't see a big deal here.
They figured out how to build a better mousetrap, let them market it.
Unless a school district contains similar "work product" provisions in their teacher contracts that many tech people have in theirs, the schools have no right to the processes and products developed by the teachers for their use.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112918</id>
	<title>Re:What questions?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258362240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I fail to see how this raises any questions too. The schools pay the teachers, the lesson plans belong to the school.</p></div><p>Unless the employment contract explicitly transfers ownership of creative works to the employer then the lesson plans legally do not belong to the school.  In the world of copyrights and contracts this stuff is cut and dry, the default in all cases  - including software development - is for ownership to rest with the creator, full stop.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I fail to see how this raises any questions too .
The schools pay the teachers , the lesson plans belong to the school.Unless the employment contract explicitly transfers ownership of creative works to the employer then the lesson plans legally do not belong to the school .
In the world of copyrights and contracts this stuff is cut and dry , the default in all cases - including software development - is for ownership to rest with the creator , full stop .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I fail to see how this raises any questions too.
The schools pay the teachers, the lesson plans belong to the school.Unless the employment contract explicitly transfers ownership of creative works to the employer then the lesson plans legally do not belong to the school.
In the world of copyrights and contracts this stuff is cut and dry, the default in all cases  - including software development - is for ownership to rest with the creator, full stop.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112706</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113986</id>
	<title>Re:What questions?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258377000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From the US copyright act: "Works Made for Hire. -- (1) a work prepared by an employee within the scope of his or her employment; or<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..."</p><p>There are various caveats which can matter, but if you are on a salary and do work at home on your own equipment to solve a problem that is part of your job, then that is a work for hire and owned by your employer. As a result, if you are a salaried employee of a software company, and you do programming at home, they might well try to make the argument that this work was done "for" them and therefore belongs to them. This is why the FSF, for example, requires that professional programmers who contribute to their projects include a sign off from the contributor's employer. Even if the contributor is sure that it wasn't done as part of his work, they don't want to deal with the legal hassles if the employer disagrees.</p><p>Individual employment agreements, and state restrictions on employment agreements can further refine this. For example, in California an employment agreement forcing you to hand over work done for your own purposes on your own time is considered unenforceable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From the US copyright act : " Works Made for Hire .
-- ( 1 ) a work prepared by an employee within the scope of his or her employment ; or ... " There are various caveats which can matter , but if you are on a salary and do work at home on your own equipment to solve a problem that is part of your job , then that is a work for hire and owned by your employer .
As a result , if you are a salaried employee of a software company , and you do programming at home , they might well try to make the argument that this work was done " for " them and therefore belongs to them .
This is why the FSF , for example , requires that professional programmers who contribute to their projects include a sign off from the contributor 's employer .
Even if the contributor is sure that it was n't done as part of his work , they do n't want to deal with the legal hassles if the employer disagrees.Individual employment agreements , and state restrictions on employment agreements can further refine this .
For example , in California an employment agreement forcing you to hand over work done for your own purposes on your own time is considered unenforceable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From the US copyright act: "Works Made for Hire.
-- (1) a work prepared by an employee within the scope of his or her employment; or ..."There are various caveats which can matter, but if you are on a salary and do work at home on your own equipment to solve a problem that is part of your job, then that is a work for hire and owned by your employer.
As a result, if you are a salaried employee of a software company, and you do programming at home, they might well try to make the argument that this work was done "for" them and therefore belongs to them.
This is why the FSF, for example, requires that professional programmers who contribute to their projects include a sign off from the contributor's employer.
Even if the contributor is sure that it wasn't done as part of his work, they don't want to deal with the legal hassles if the employer disagrees.Individual employment agreements, and state restrictions on employment agreements can further refine this.
For example, in California an employment agreement forcing you to hand over work done for your own purposes on your own time is considered unenforceable.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113280</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30115016</id>
	<title>Re:Peanuts Compared to Textbook Rip-Offs</title>
	<author>rwv</author>
	<datestamp>1258385820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Once you've figured out how to price text books about the same as a best seller hard-cover book instead $100-200 a copy</p></div><p>California is beginning to figure it out with the recent push to approve Open Source Text Books for use in public schools.

</p><p>My only thought about lessons plans created by public school teachers... why aren't these creations marked as public works that are licensed under the public domain?  I know whenever NASA releases an image that I can use it however I wish as long as I give them an attribution.

</p><p>Is there a nuance that makes teaching in public schools different from working for NASA?  As far as I know, the only NASA work that will never be public domain is ITAR restricted work.  Surely these concerns don't apply to school teachers.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Once you 've figured out how to price text books about the same as a best seller hard-cover book instead $ 100-200 a copyCalifornia is beginning to figure it out with the recent push to approve Open Source Text Books for use in public schools .
My only thought about lessons plans created by public school teachers... why are n't these creations marked as public works that are licensed under the public domain ?
I know whenever NASA releases an image that I can use it however I wish as long as I give them an attribution .
Is there a nuance that makes teaching in public schools different from working for NASA ?
As far as I know , the only NASA work that will never be public domain is ITAR restricted work .
Surely these concerns do n't apply to school teachers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Once you've figured out how to price text books about the same as a best seller hard-cover book instead $100-200 a copyCalifornia is beginning to figure it out with the recent push to approve Open Source Text Books for use in public schools.
My only thought about lessons plans created by public school teachers... why aren't these creations marked as public works that are licensed under the public domain?
I know whenever NASA releases an image that I can use it however I wish as long as I give them an attribution.
Is there a nuance that makes teaching in public schools different from working for NASA?
As far as I know, the only NASA work that will never be public domain is ITAR restricted work.
Surely these concerns don't apply to school teachers.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112882</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30115834</id>
	<title>Schools Don't Keep Them Anyway</title>
	<author>tarlss</author>
	<datestamp>1258389240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>As far as I'm aware, public school teachers keep their lesson plans when they retire/transfer. If a school teacher retires or changes jobs, her lesson plans stay with her. It's not like schools have backlogs and files of retired/fired/transferred teachers lesson plans.

I don't see why they can't sell them. Schools have never owned/took possession of these lesson plans anyway- why should they start now?

If that was the case, why would every teacher have to make them? Wouldn't it just be the case that the school kept the lesson plans of their best performing teachers and redistributed them to any newbs they hire?

People that equate lesson plans with a day's coding are delusional. I am a programmer myself. Quit being so self-centered and anti-social; not every job is like IT.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As far as I 'm aware , public school teachers keep their lesson plans when they retire/transfer .
If a school teacher retires or changes jobs , her lesson plans stay with her .
It 's not like schools have backlogs and files of retired/fired/transferred teachers lesson plans .
I do n't see why they ca n't sell them .
Schools have never owned/took possession of these lesson plans anyway- why should they start now ?
If that was the case , why would every teacher have to make them ?
Would n't it just be the case that the school kept the lesson plans of their best performing teachers and redistributed them to any newbs they hire ?
People that equate lesson plans with a day 's coding are delusional .
I am a programmer myself .
Quit being so self-centered and anti-social ; not every job is like IT .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As far as I'm aware, public school teachers keep their lesson plans when they retire/transfer.
If a school teacher retires or changes jobs, her lesson plans stay with her.
It's not like schools have backlogs and files of retired/fired/transferred teachers lesson plans.
I don't see why they can't sell them.
Schools have never owned/took possession of these lesson plans anyway- why should they start now?
If that was the case, why would every teacher have to make them?
Wouldn't it just be the case that the school kept the lesson plans of their best performing teachers and redistributed them to any newbs they hire?
People that equate lesson plans with a day's coding are delusional.
I am a programmer myself.
Quit being so self-centered and anti-social; not every job is like IT.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113280</id>
	<title>Re:What questions?</title>
	<author>vadim\_t</author>
	<datestamp>1258367220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>If you write software for a living, you can't go home and sell your days coding.</p></div></blockquote><p>Yes I can, so long it's my own code, made on my own time and equipment, and not something I took from the office.</p><blockquote><div><p>it belongs to your employer.</p></div></blockquote><p>No, it doesn't.</p><p>Things I do at home on my own equipment are none of my employer's business. The only thing that belongs to my employer is what I do at work.</p><p>In this case however I think the lesson plan should belong to the school anyway, since it's a work related activity that should be done at work time -- meaning there should be paid time allocated for the teacher to work on a lesson plan, at the school. Though this is probably an unrealistic expectation as teachers have a weird way of working and routinely do work at home.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you write software for a living , you ca n't go home and sell your days coding.Yes I can , so long it 's my own code , made on my own time and equipment , and not something I took from the office.it belongs to your employer.No , it does n't.Things I do at home on my own equipment are none of my employer 's business .
The only thing that belongs to my employer is what I do at work.In this case however I think the lesson plan should belong to the school anyway , since it 's a work related activity that should be done at work time -- meaning there should be paid time allocated for the teacher to work on a lesson plan , at the school .
Though this is probably an unrealistic expectation as teachers have a weird way of working and routinely do work at home .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you write software for a living, you can't go home and sell your days coding.Yes I can, so long it's my own code, made on my own time and equipment, and not something I took from the office.it belongs to your employer.No, it doesn't.Things I do at home on my own equipment are none of my employer's business.
The only thing that belongs to my employer is what I do at work.In this case however I think the lesson plan should belong to the school anyway, since it's a work related activity that should be done at work time -- meaning there should be paid time allocated for the teacher to work on a lesson plan, at the school.
Though this is probably an unrealistic expectation as teachers have a weird way of working and routinely do work at home.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112706</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113698</id>
	<title>Re:Peanuts Compared to Textbook Rip-Offs</title>
	<author>orin</author>
	<datestamp>1258373520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Textbooks don't sell anything like what a best selling hard cover book sells like. Most textbooks will be lucky to sell a couple of thousand copies. Few college level textbook authors will see anything beyond a couple of thousand dollars in an advance. That's a couple of thousand dollars for upwards of two years work putting together the textbook. Unlike hardback fiction, textbooks need to be fact checked. Do you really think that the editorial costs of a JK Rowling book are anything approaching the costs for running the appropriate eyes over a college level textbook? Do you think these people work for free?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Textbooks do n't sell anything like what a best selling hard cover book sells like .
Most textbooks will be lucky to sell a couple of thousand copies .
Few college level textbook authors will see anything beyond a couple of thousand dollars in an advance .
That 's a couple of thousand dollars for upwards of two years work putting together the textbook .
Unlike hardback fiction , textbooks need to be fact checked .
Do you really think that the editorial costs of a JK Rowling book are anything approaching the costs for running the appropriate eyes over a college level textbook ?
Do you think these people work for free ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Textbooks don't sell anything like what a best selling hard cover book sells like.
Most textbooks will be lucky to sell a couple of thousand copies.
Few college level textbook authors will see anything beyond a couple of thousand dollars in an advance.
That's a couple of thousand dollars for upwards of two years work putting together the textbook.
Unlike hardback fiction, textbooks need to be fact checked.
Do you really think that the editorial costs of a JK Rowling book are anything approaching the costs for running the appropriate eyes over a college level textbook?
Do you think these people work for free?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112882</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30115038</id>
	<title>Re:Peanuts Compared to Textbook Rip-Offs</title>
	<author>Insightfill</author>
	<datestamp>1258385880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Once you've figured out how to price text books about the same as a best seller hard-cover book instead $100-200 a copy, I'll be willing to worry about teachers selling lesson plans.</p></div></blockquote><p>
My wife's grad school professor was sharing around a small, paperback non-fiction book about administration that she had picked up for ~$30 and in passing had asked the class what the books for HER OWN CLASS were running.  The prof was genuinely shocked that the two thin books she had recommended for the class cost the students ~$200 of their own money (not covered by the scholarship that went with the internship).  She said she was trying to keep the cost of the books at under $100, and didn't think that the books she had recommended cost that much.</p><p>
This is a prof who didn't bother to look up the books online before choosing them for the class.  It's MUCH WORSE when the prof recommends their OWN book.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Once you 've figured out how to price text books about the same as a best seller hard-cover book instead $ 100-200 a copy , I 'll be willing to worry about teachers selling lesson plans .
My wife 's grad school professor was sharing around a small , paperback non-fiction book about administration that she had picked up for ~ $ 30 and in passing had asked the class what the books for HER OWN CLASS were running .
The prof was genuinely shocked that the two thin books she had recommended for the class cost the students ~ $ 200 of their own money ( not covered by the scholarship that went with the internship ) .
She said she was trying to keep the cost of the books at under $ 100 , and did n't think that the books she had recommended cost that much .
This is a prof who did n't bother to look up the books online before choosing them for the class .
It 's MUCH WORSE when the prof recommends their OWN book .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Once you've figured out how to price text books about the same as a best seller hard-cover book instead $100-200 a copy, I'll be willing to worry about teachers selling lesson plans.
My wife's grad school professor was sharing around a small, paperback non-fiction book about administration that she had picked up for ~$30 and in passing had asked the class what the books for HER OWN CLASS were running.
The prof was genuinely shocked that the two thin books she had recommended for the class cost the students ~$200 of their own money (not covered by the scholarship that went with the internship).
She said she was trying to keep the cost of the books at under $100, and didn't think that the books she had recommended cost that much.
This is a prof who didn't bother to look up the books online before choosing them for the class.
It's MUCH WORSE when the prof recommends their OWN book.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112882</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30114096</id>
	<title>Lesson plans are part of the job</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258378080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In many districts, lesson plans are bought by the school districts and the teachers are strongly encouraged to use these as part of the curriculum. In others, yes teachers are asked to create lesson plans, but there is a stipulation here. Teachers are paid for a years work, ~30-50k, but only work approximately 40 hours a week for 180 days (depending on state/district). That's approximately 36 weeks of a 52 week years leaving 16 weeks or 4 months off. This time is supposed to be used to stay current on teaching methodologies, regulations, and to develop and refine lesson plans for the coming school year. Of course some people will point out that some teachers choose to teach summer school or at a community college during this time to supplement income, but that is their choice and usually not factored in to their salary.</p><p>I, of course, believe teachers are underpaid, but I do believe that the time taken to develop lesson plans are included in their salary. Also, let's be honest, after a few years of teaching a specific course, lesson plans don't normally change that drastically.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In many districts , lesson plans are bought by the school districts and the teachers are strongly encouraged to use these as part of the curriculum .
In others , yes teachers are asked to create lesson plans , but there is a stipulation here .
Teachers are paid for a years work , ~ 30-50k , but only work approximately 40 hours a week for 180 days ( depending on state/district ) .
That 's approximately 36 weeks of a 52 week years leaving 16 weeks or 4 months off .
This time is supposed to be used to stay current on teaching methodologies , regulations , and to develop and refine lesson plans for the coming school year .
Of course some people will point out that some teachers choose to teach summer school or at a community college during this time to supplement income , but that is their choice and usually not factored in to their salary.I , of course , believe teachers are underpaid , but I do believe that the time taken to develop lesson plans are included in their salary .
Also , let 's be honest , after a few years of teaching a specific course , lesson plans do n't normally change that drastically .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In many districts, lesson plans are bought by the school districts and the teachers are strongly encouraged to use these as part of the curriculum.
In others, yes teachers are asked to create lesson plans, but there is a stipulation here.
Teachers are paid for a years work, ~30-50k, but only work approximately 40 hours a week for 180 days (depending on state/district).
That's approximately 36 weeks of a 52 week years leaving 16 weeks or 4 months off.
This time is supposed to be used to stay current on teaching methodologies, regulations, and to develop and refine lesson plans for the coming school year.
Of course some people will point out that some teachers choose to teach summer school or at a community college during this time to supplement income, but that is their choice and usually not factored in to their salary.I, of course, believe teachers are underpaid, but I do believe that the time taken to develop lesson plans are included in their salary.
Also, let's be honest, after a few years of teaching a specific course, lesson plans don't normally change that drastically.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30114186</id>
	<title>Teachers:  the original open sourcers</title>
	<author>Pumpkin Tuna</author>
	<datestamp>1258378980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>When I told my mother (a retired teacher) about this notion of selling lesson plans to other teachers online, she replied, "That's silly!"
<br>
<br>
That's because my mom knows that teachers are the original open-sourcers. We routinely create lesson plans, worksheets and other classroom materials, freely give this material to other teachers, encourage them to adapt it, and assume that they will freely provide the material to other teachers. Sound familiar?
<br>
<br>
We've done this for decades because, frankly, we have to. Time constraints and the need for quality free material forced it on us.
<br>
<br>
That's why these sites have been around for years, but have never really taken off. They never will. If I meet a teacher who sells their plans to this site (and I haven't yet) I will gently remind them of the strong tradition of open-source material in education.</htmltext>
<tokenext>When I told my mother ( a retired teacher ) about this notion of selling lesson plans to other teachers online , she replied , " That 's silly !
" That 's because my mom knows that teachers are the original open-sourcers .
We routinely create lesson plans , worksheets and other classroom materials , freely give this material to other teachers , encourage them to adapt it , and assume that they will freely provide the material to other teachers .
Sound familiar ?
We 've done this for decades because , frankly , we have to .
Time constraints and the need for quality free material forced it on us .
That 's why these sites have been around for years , but have never really taken off .
They never will .
If I meet a teacher who sells their plans to this site ( and I have n't yet ) I will gently remind them of the strong tradition of open-source material in education .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I told my mother (a retired teacher) about this notion of selling lesson plans to other teachers online, she replied, "That's silly!
"


That's because my mom knows that teachers are the original open-sourcers.
We routinely create lesson plans, worksheets and other classroom materials, freely give this material to other teachers, encourage them to adapt it, and assume that they will freely provide the material to other teachers.
Sound familiar?
We've done this for decades because, frankly, we have to.
Time constraints and the need for quality free material forced it on us.
That's why these sites have been around for years, but have never really taken off.
They never will.
If I meet a teacher who sells their plans to this site (and I haven't yet) I will gently remind them of the strong tradition of open-source material in education.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30124736</id>
	<title>Wikiversity anyone?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258382040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I do not see a problem with teachers selling their lesson plans per se. However, I think students would be best served if our teachers were pooling resources by publishing their lesson plans for free online. But of course I am thinking only of the best interest of the student.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do not see a problem with teachers selling their lesson plans per se .
However , I think students would be best served if our teachers were pooling resources by publishing their lesson plans for free online .
But of course I am thinking only of the best interest of the student .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I do not see a problem with teachers selling their lesson plans per se.
However, I think students would be best served if our teachers were pooling resources by publishing their lesson plans for free online.
But of course I am thinking only of the best interest of the student.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113766</id>
	<title>former hobbyist blogger selling soul on line......</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258374600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>for a bit more monIE. kind of randoidian, no?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>for a bit more monIE .
kind of randoidian , no ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>for a bit more monIE.
kind of randoidian, no?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30125550</id>
	<title>re</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258390140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My mom used to teach and I remember one of her big complaints about K-12 in the US was that most parents got the idea that school was just a free babysitter</p><p>I also thought this article stated 'Public School Teachers Selling Piano Lessons Online'</p><p>Boy, it has been a long day.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My mom used to teach and I remember one of her big complaints about K-12 in the US was that most parents got the idea that school was just a free babysitterI also thought this article stated 'Public School Teachers Selling Piano Lessons Online'Boy , it has been a long day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My mom used to teach and I remember one of her big complaints about K-12 in the US was that most parents got the idea that school was just a free babysitterI also thought this article stated 'Public School Teachers Selling Piano Lessons Online'Boy, it has been a long day.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30127158</id>
	<title>Re:Married to a teacher...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258454640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>But they'll never get paid incentives for doing so because the union will prevent her from recieving bonus pay, and the district will be forced to let other districts poach all the good teachers out of their system while tenured past-their-prime cash checkers continue to drain the district<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:x</htmltext>
<tokenext>But they 'll never get paid incentives for doing so because the union will prevent her from recieving bonus pay , and the district will be forced to let other districts poach all the good teachers out of their system while tenured past-their-prime cash checkers continue to drain the district : x</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But they'll never get paid incentives for doing so because the union will prevent her from recieving bonus pay, and the district will be forced to let other districts poach all the good teachers out of their system while tenured past-their-prime cash checkers continue to drain the district :x</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112776</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113742</id>
	<title>And who controls that material?</title>
	<author>arliones</author>
	<datestamp>1258374240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>OK! I buy the idea that young teachers can benefit from having more experienced professionals providing them with good work material.

BUT, in my opinion, the question that rises from this isn't weather it is ethical or not to have public school professors selling their material. What I am concerned about is if this material is really good! For instance, I've just created a seller account at TeachersPayTeachers, but I don't teach anything! I'm a Brazilian computer scientist!

I agree that the intellectual property of these lesson plans belong to the teachers that produced them. And I belive that professionals that produce good quality material must be rewarded for doing that. I'm just worried with the possibility of having uncontrolled teaching material being sold (and used!) worldwide.</htmltext>
<tokenext>OK !
I buy the idea that young teachers can benefit from having more experienced professionals providing them with good work material .
BUT , in my opinion , the question that rises from this is n't weather it is ethical or not to have public school professors selling their material .
What I am concerned about is if this material is really good !
For instance , I 've just created a seller account at TeachersPayTeachers , but I do n't teach anything !
I 'm a Brazilian computer scientist !
I agree that the intellectual property of these lesson plans belong to the teachers that produced them .
And I belive that professionals that produce good quality material must be rewarded for doing that .
I 'm just worried with the possibility of having uncontrolled teaching material being sold ( and used !
) worldwide .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OK!
I buy the idea that young teachers can benefit from having more experienced professionals providing them with good work material.
BUT, in my opinion, the question that rises from this isn't weather it is ethical or not to have public school professors selling their material.
What I am concerned about is if this material is really good!
For instance, I've just created a seller account at TeachersPayTeachers, but I don't teach anything!
I'm a Brazilian computer scientist!
I agree that the intellectual property of these lesson plans belong to the teachers that produced them.
And I belive that professionals that produce good quality material must be rewarded for doing that.
I'm just worried with the possibility of having uncontrolled teaching material being sold (and used!
) worldwide.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113000</id>
	<title>Exactly like Open Source Software</title>
	<author>Jah-Wren Ryel</author>
	<datestamp>1258363320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm surprised that at this point the discussion no comment pointing out the similarities with Open Source Software has been modded up to a 3 or higher.</p><p>Some of these teachers are making money on these lesson plans, while others only want credit but don't have a good mechanism to attribute credit (one teacher mentioned in the article says one of her lesson plans that she gave away was so popular it made it to another school district but had no attribution).  This stuff might as well be open source software programs for young minds, the parallels are so close.</p><p>While the profit motive is all fine and good and, from the tone of the article, is being met by multiple websites rooted in the old copyright-based fee-for-distribution model, what the rest of the teachers need is a "sourceforge for teachers."  A set of tools to easily enable the creation, modification and distribution of lesson plans for free with the option of significant collaborative participation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm surprised that at this point the discussion no comment pointing out the similarities with Open Source Software has been modded up to a 3 or higher.Some of these teachers are making money on these lesson plans , while others only want credit but do n't have a good mechanism to attribute credit ( one teacher mentioned in the article says one of her lesson plans that she gave away was so popular it made it to another school district but had no attribution ) .
This stuff might as well be open source software programs for young minds , the parallels are so close.While the profit motive is all fine and good and , from the tone of the article , is being met by multiple websites rooted in the old copyright-based fee-for-distribution model , what the rest of the teachers need is a " sourceforge for teachers .
" A set of tools to easily enable the creation , modification and distribution of lesson plans for free with the option of significant collaborative participation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm surprised that at this point the discussion no comment pointing out the similarities with Open Source Software has been modded up to a 3 or higher.Some of these teachers are making money on these lesson plans, while others only want credit but don't have a good mechanism to attribute credit (one teacher mentioned in the article says one of her lesson plans that she gave away was so popular it made it to another school district but had no attribution).
This stuff might as well be open source software programs for young minds, the parallels are so close.While the profit motive is all fine and good and, from the tone of the article, is being met by multiple websites rooted in the old copyright-based fee-for-distribution model, what the rest of the teachers need is a "sourceforge for teachers.
"  A set of tools to easily enable the creation, modification and distribution of lesson plans for free with the option of significant collaborative participation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113304</id>
	<title>Re:What questions?</title>
	<author>Matheus</author>
	<datestamp>1258367520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>More importantly.. I know a lot of teachers who can't stand that part of the job.  These other teachers can only make money selling their plans because there is a market to buy them.  I'd rather a uninspired teacher bought a good lesson plan than inflict a terrible or incomplete one on their students.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>More importantly.. I know a lot of teachers who ca n't stand that part of the job .
These other teachers can only make money selling their plans because there is a market to buy them .
I 'd rather a uninspired teacher bought a good lesson plan than inflict a terrible or incomplete one on their students .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>More importantly.. I know a lot of teachers who can't stand that part of the job.
These other teachers can only make money selling their plans because there is a market to buy them.
I'd rather a uninspired teacher bought a good lesson plan than inflict a terrible or incomplete one on their students.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112614</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112688</id>
	<title>Does it matter?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258402320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seems like a cheap way to pay teachers more without raising taxes.</p><p>IP issues aside, the state benefits because they gain the teacher's expertise and thus can provide education (something you were going to be spending regardless) and the added incentive that teachers can earn more money in their position.</p><p>As long as a student who buys nothing from the teacher is not disadvantaged anyway compared to a student who does.  If the teacher is also unable to charge for time spent whilst at school, then it sounds like the perfect market solution to me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seems like a cheap way to pay teachers more without raising taxes.IP issues aside , the state benefits because they gain the teacher 's expertise and thus can provide education ( something you were going to be spending regardless ) and the added incentive that teachers can earn more money in their position.As long as a student who buys nothing from the teacher is not disadvantaged anyway compared to a student who does .
If the teacher is also unable to charge for time spent whilst at school , then it sounds like the perfect market solution to me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seems like a cheap way to pay teachers more without raising taxes.IP issues aside, the state benefits because they gain the teacher's expertise and thus can provide education (something you were going to be spending regardless) and the added incentive that teachers can earn more money in their position.As long as a student who buys nothing from the teacher is not disadvantaged anyway compared to a student who does.
If the teacher is also unable to charge for time spent whilst at school, then it sounds like the perfect market solution to me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113172</id>
	<title>Re:What questions?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258365540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>well, something may have to done about that system then. if it is broken (and it is) a new version should see day light,</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>well , something may have to done about that system then .
if it is broken ( and it is ) a new version should see day light,</tokentext>
<sentencetext>well, something may have to done about that system then.
if it is broken (and it is) a new version should see day light,</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112614</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112862</id>
	<title>Re:US Copyright laws</title>
	<author>joocemann</author>
	<datestamp>1258404660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What if they wrote the plan on their own time, but in support of the course?  Surely you've seen, for example, a man who serves his country as a National Guardsman, and fulfills the same position as a Civilian Contract Worker when it isn't on the weekend.  I've seen it many times.  And so when it isn't done during the hours of when the school is gettin work off them, it is their own time and their own efforts, just like you reselling a few things on ebay.</p><p>Stuff like that takes work!  And if you go above and beyond to work at something and make it great on your own time (albeit for the benefit of your students, too) then why not profit from it if someone is willing to pay?  Hell, I am a help-people-for-free kinda guy but I'm not gonna knock someone for putting up one side of a fair deal here.  If the buyers didn't wanna pay money, they wouldn't!  Everyone wins here, so you can't really get upset about it.  Sometimes its ok not to get all upset about something; i think this is one of them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What if they wrote the plan on their own time , but in support of the course ?
Surely you 've seen , for example , a man who serves his country as a National Guardsman , and fulfills the same position as a Civilian Contract Worker when it is n't on the weekend .
I 've seen it many times .
And so when it is n't done during the hours of when the school is gettin work off them , it is their own time and their own efforts , just like you reselling a few things on ebay.Stuff like that takes work !
And if you go above and beyond to work at something and make it great on your own time ( albeit for the benefit of your students , too ) then why not profit from it if someone is willing to pay ?
Hell , I am a help-people-for-free kinda guy but I 'm not gon na knock someone for putting up one side of a fair deal here .
If the buyers did n't wan na pay money , they would n't !
Everyone wins here , so you ca n't really get upset about it .
Sometimes its ok not to get all upset about something ; i think this is one of them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What if they wrote the plan on their own time, but in support of the course?
Surely you've seen, for example, a man who serves his country as a National Guardsman, and fulfills the same position as a Civilian Contract Worker when it isn't on the weekend.
I've seen it many times.
And so when it isn't done during the hours of when the school is gettin work off them, it is their own time and their own efforts, just like you reselling a few things on ebay.Stuff like that takes work!
And if you go above and beyond to work at something and make it great on your own time (albeit for the benefit of your students, too) then why not profit from it if someone is willing to pay?
Hell, I am a help-people-for-free kinda guy but I'm not gonna knock someone for putting up one side of a fair deal here.
If the buyers didn't wanna pay money, they wouldn't!
Everyone wins here, so you can't really get upset about it.
Sometimes its ok not to get all upset about something; i think this is one of them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112916</id>
	<title>Patent?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258362240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Patenting lesson plans and then licensing them seems the next logical step.  Has anyone tried this yet?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Patenting lesson plans and then licensing them seems the next logical step .
Has anyone tried this yet ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Patenting lesson plans and then licensing them seems the next logical step.
Has anyone tried this yet?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30115136</id>
	<title>Poor teacher or union?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258386180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd have no problem with this if the teacher's union wasn't what it was.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd have no problem with this if the teacher 's union was n't what it was .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd have no problem with this if the teacher's union wasn't what it was.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113984</id>
	<title>Re:What questions?</title>
	<author>backwardMechanic</author>
	<datestamp>1258377000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I guess you keep weirder hours than I do. When I said your <b>days</b> coding, I was referring to the time most people spend at work. If you can demonstrate that your code was all written at home, not during time you were being paid for, without using your employers resources, and is unrelated to what you do at work, then sure, it's yours. If you spend your evenings coding and selling the same software that you write during the day, I think your employer may like to know about it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I guess you keep weirder hours than I do .
When I said your days coding , I was referring to the time most people spend at work .
If you can demonstrate that your code was all written at home , not during time you were being paid for , without using your employers resources , and is unrelated to what you do at work , then sure , it 's yours .
If you spend your evenings coding and selling the same software that you write during the day , I think your employer may like to know about it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I guess you keep weirder hours than I do.
When I said your days coding, I was referring to the time most people spend at work.
If you can demonstrate that your code was all written at home, not during time you were being paid for, without using your employers resources, and is unrelated to what you do at work, then sure, it's yours.
If you spend your evenings coding and selling the same software that you write during the day, I think your employer may like to know about it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113280</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30114400</id>
	<title>sell tests, too?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258381440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If they want to sell their tests and answer keys as well, I'm sure they'll find a market for that as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If they want to sell their tests and answer keys as well , I 'm sure they 'll find a market for that as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they want to sell their tests and answer keys as well, I'm sure they'll find a market for that as well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30116844</id>
	<title>Awesome!</title>
	<author>nathan.fulton</author>
	<datestamp>1258393740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>worksheets for pay = less worksheets = either less meaningless work or work with more meaning or both. In any case, stopping the proliferation of worksheets (even if just a little) is a good thing imho.</htmltext>
<tokenext>worksheets for pay = less worksheets = either less meaningless work or work with more meaning or both .
In any case , stopping the proliferation of worksheets ( even if just a little ) is a good thing imho .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>worksheets for pay = less worksheets = either less meaningless work or work with more meaning or both.
In any case, stopping the proliferation of worksheets (even if just a little) is a good thing imho.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30115036</id>
	<title>Union contracts?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258385880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What seems to be missing in this discussion is that virtually all school teachers (as opposed to university professors) are working under some sort of collective bargaining agreement (e.g. union contract), which almost certainly establishes required work hours, treatment of intellectual property, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What seems to be missing in this discussion is that virtually all school teachers ( as opposed to university professors ) are working under some sort of collective bargaining agreement ( e.g .
union contract ) , which almost certainly establishes required work hours , treatment of intellectual property , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What seems to be missing in this discussion is that virtually all school teachers (as opposed to university professors) are working under some sort of collective bargaining agreement (e.g.
union contract), which almost certainly establishes required work hours, treatment of intellectual property, etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113486</id>
	<title>Shakespeare?</title>
	<author>spidr\_mnky</author>
	<datestamp>1258370400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>...as simple as M&amp;M sorting and as sophisticated as Shakespeare...</p></div><p>
15th century TV?  "Star crossed lovers" is sophisticated?  I hope they're selling this crap so they can buy these poor kids a math book to share.
</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...as simple as M&amp;M sorting and as sophisticated as Shakespeare.. . 15th century TV ?
" Star crossed lovers " is sophisticated ?
I hope they 're selling this crap so they can buy these poor kids a math book to share .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ...as simple as M&amp;M sorting and as sophisticated as Shakespeare...
15th century TV?
"Star crossed lovers" is sophisticated?
I hope they're selling this crap so they can buy these poor kids a math book to share.

	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112890</id>
	<title>Re:What questions?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258405020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But how do you distinguish between the time spend on the clock and off the clock? If I was hired to code a dataanalysis program for some company and started selling an almost exact clone after I was done, would you accept the argument: "Well I did it in my spare time!".</p><p>And you could argue that teachers shouldn't be allowed to develop content off the clock to retain rights, they are hired to perform a certain job, and that's what they should be doing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But how do you distinguish between the time spend on the clock and off the clock ?
If I was hired to code a dataanalysis program for some company and started selling an almost exact clone after I was done , would you accept the argument : " Well I did it in my spare time !
" .And you could argue that teachers should n't be allowed to develop content off the clock to retain rights , they are hired to perform a certain job , and that 's what they should be doing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But how do you distinguish between the time spend on the clock and off the clock?
If I was hired to code a dataanalysis program for some company and started selling an almost exact clone after I was done, would you accept the argument: "Well I did it in my spare time!
".And you could argue that teachers shouldn't be allowed to develop content off the clock to retain rights, they are hired to perform a certain job, and that's what they should be doing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112614</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112614</id>
	<title>What questions?</title>
	<author>JorDan Clock</author>
	<datestamp>1258315020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I fail to see how this raises any questions. The teachers put effort into developing a lesson plan and deserve to do whatever they wish with that lesson plan. I work at a coffee shop and from what I've seen and talked about with the teachers that regularly spend time there, they don't do lesson plans on the clock. It's something they do mostly outside of school.<br> <br>Plus, teachers don't make a whole lot as it is. If they want to sell their expertise at putting together effective lesson plans, more power to them. In fact, I prefer this system over the traditional "do as the book provides" because it seems to the major text book publishers care more about milking schools for money than actually teaching anything. With a system like this, at least the money helps other teachers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I fail to see how this raises any questions .
The teachers put effort into developing a lesson plan and deserve to do whatever they wish with that lesson plan .
I work at a coffee shop and from what I 've seen and talked about with the teachers that regularly spend time there , they do n't do lesson plans on the clock .
It 's something they do mostly outside of school .
Plus , teachers do n't make a whole lot as it is .
If they want to sell their expertise at putting together effective lesson plans , more power to them .
In fact , I prefer this system over the traditional " do as the book provides " because it seems to the major text book publishers care more about milking schools for money than actually teaching anything .
With a system like this , at least the money helps other teachers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I fail to see how this raises any questions.
The teachers put effort into developing a lesson plan and deserve to do whatever they wish with that lesson plan.
I work at a coffee shop and from what I've seen and talked about with the teachers that regularly spend time there, they don't do lesson plans on the clock.
It's something they do mostly outside of school.
Plus, teachers don't make a whole lot as it is.
If they want to sell their expertise at putting together effective lesson plans, more power to them.
In fact, I prefer this system over the traditional "do as the book provides" because it seems to the major text book publishers care more about milking schools for money than actually teaching anything.
With a system like this, at least the money helps other teachers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30114198</id>
	<title>It was never given away</title>
	<author>ghostlibrary</author>
	<datestamp>1258379100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The poster has an odd grasp of K12 education.  Teachers never give away lesson plans.  They hoard them, because their plans are their life's blood and their job security.  Even teachers who mentor don't give out 'ready made' lesson plans.</p><p>So what these for-pay sites do is free up content that would otherwise be locked up.  They give an incentive for teachers to cross that 'thin chalk line' and share.</p><p>And to answer 'who owns lessons developed for public school', the answer is the creator, not the school.  Teachers are not hired as writers or curriculum developers, but as on-site instructors.  The curricula are a by-product.  If schools expect to own all the material their teachers develop, they need to negotiate that right-- and increase teacher pay.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The poster has an odd grasp of K12 education .
Teachers never give away lesson plans .
They hoard them , because their plans are their life 's blood and their job security .
Even teachers who mentor do n't give out 'ready made ' lesson plans.So what these for-pay sites do is free up content that would otherwise be locked up .
They give an incentive for teachers to cross that 'thin chalk line ' and share.And to answer 'who owns lessons developed for public school ' , the answer is the creator , not the school .
Teachers are not hired as writers or curriculum developers , but as on-site instructors .
The curricula are a by-product .
If schools expect to own all the material their teachers develop , they need to negotiate that right-- and increase teacher pay .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The poster has an odd grasp of K12 education.
Teachers never give away lesson plans.
They hoard them, because their plans are their life's blood and their job security.
Even teachers who mentor don't give out 'ready made' lesson plans.So what these for-pay sites do is free up content that would otherwise be locked up.
They give an incentive for teachers to cross that 'thin chalk line' and share.And to answer 'who owns lessons developed for public school', the answer is the creator, not the school.
Teachers are not hired as writers or curriculum developers, but as on-site instructors.
The curricula are a by-product.
If schools expect to own all the material their teachers develop, they need to negotiate that right-- and increase teacher pay.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113598</id>
	<title>I'm a teacher . . .</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258372020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>. . . . and frankly, have no issue with another teacher selling materials to another teacher. As others have pointed out, these plans and materials are developed outside of regular teaching hours. As a professional, you have every right to sell IP that you have developed on your own. Teachers have actually been doing it for years, and a few of the smaller materials companies were actually started by teachers putting together curriculum in their spare time, then taking it on the road.  Marci Cook is perhaps the most well known (to elementary teachers) example, she has been selling math and language arts activities for years, and has developed a profitable business as a result. None of which was created in the classroom, I will add.</p><p>But to be honest, most of the stuff I have seen for sale could be developed by any teacher with a little bit of time. M&amp;M math, anyone?</p><p>I personally share everything I develop with my colleagues at my grade level, and expect my colleagues to do the same. I like to think of it as Open Source education&mdash;sharing the best ideas with other teachers and planning lessons together really benefits your students.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>.
. .
. and frankly , have no issue with another teacher selling materials to another teacher .
As others have pointed out , these plans and materials are developed outside of regular teaching hours .
As a professional , you have every right to sell IP that you have developed on your own .
Teachers have actually been doing it for years , and a few of the smaller materials companies were actually started by teachers putting together curriculum in their spare time , then taking it on the road .
Marci Cook is perhaps the most well known ( to elementary teachers ) example , she has been selling math and language arts activities for years , and has developed a profitable business as a result .
None of which was created in the classroom , I will add.But to be honest , most of the stuff I have seen for sale could be developed by any teacher with a little bit of time .
M&amp;M math , anyone ? I personally share everything I develop with my colleagues at my grade level , and expect my colleagues to do the same .
I like to think of it as Open Source education    sharing the best ideas with other teachers and planning lessons together really benefits your students .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>.
. .
. and frankly, have no issue with another teacher selling materials to another teacher.
As others have pointed out, these plans and materials are developed outside of regular teaching hours.
As a professional, you have every right to sell IP that you have developed on your own.
Teachers have actually been doing it for years, and a few of the smaller materials companies were actually started by teachers putting together curriculum in their spare time, then taking it on the road.
Marci Cook is perhaps the most well known (to elementary teachers) example, she has been selling math and language arts activities for years, and has developed a profitable business as a result.
None of which was created in the classroom, I will add.But to be honest, most of the stuff I have seen for sale could be developed by any teacher with a little bit of time.
M&amp;M math, anyone?I personally share everything I develop with my colleagues at my grade level, and expect my colleagues to do the same.
I like to think of it as Open Source education—sharing the best ideas with other teachers and planning lessons together really benefits your students.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30118068</id>
	<title>Re:What questions?</title>
	<author>tygt</author>
	<datestamp>1258397760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>If you write software for a living, you can't go home and sell your days coding</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
Actually, you can, and many people do (at least in the state of California - laws may differ elsewhere). Anything you do on your own time, your own space, your own equipment - this is yours and you can sell it.
</p><p>
Don't try to say that if you're salaried you're never off the clock; there's a legislated 40-hour work week and just because you're salaried doesn't mean you're always at work. Haven't you heard of people having two jobs? It is done, and they can even both be salaried.
</p><p>
Of course if you write software at home in the evening on your employer's computer you've got ownership issues. People like me who have a home office have to be extra careful to make sure that we have separate computers for work and personal use.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you write software for a living , you ca n't go home and sell your days coding Actually , you can , and many people do ( at least in the state of California - laws may differ elsewhere ) .
Anything you do on your own time , your own space , your own equipment - this is yours and you can sell it .
Do n't try to say that if you 're salaried you 're never off the clock ; there 's a legislated 40-hour work week and just because you 're salaried does n't mean you 're always at work .
Have n't you heard of people having two jobs ?
It is done , and they can even both be salaried .
Of course if you write software at home in the evening on your employer 's computer you 've got ownership issues .
People like me who have a home office have to be extra careful to make sure that we have separate computers for work and personal use .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you write software for a living, you can't go home and sell your days coding

Actually, you can, and many people do (at least in the state of California - laws may differ elsewhere).
Anything you do on your own time, your own space, your own equipment - this is yours and you can sell it.
Don't try to say that if you're salaried you're never off the clock; there's a legislated 40-hour work week and just because you're salaried doesn't mean you're always at work.
Haven't you heard of people having two jobs?
It is done, and they can even both be salaried.
Of course if you write software at home in the evening on your employer's computer you've got ownership issues.
People like me who have a home office have to be extra careful to make sure that we have separate computers for work and personal use.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112706</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113980</id>
	<title>Obvious</title>
	<author>BlueBoxSW.com</author>
	<datestamp>1258376940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm glad this argument unfolded exactly as predicted, with "they did it on our dime" vs. "they did it on their own time" arguments abounding.</p><p>The only thing I don't see here is a "they only work 8 months a year but get paid for the whole year, screw them" argument.</p><p>No one, including the original article, asks whose money is being used to BUY the lesson plans.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm glad this argument unfolded exactly as predicted , with " they did it on our dime " vs. " they did it on their own time " arguments abounding.The only thing I do n't see here is a " they only work 8 months a year but get paid for the whole year , screw them " argument.No one , including the original article , asks whose money is being used to BUY the lesson plans .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm glad this argument unfolded exactly as predicted, with "they did it on our dime" vs. "they did it on their own time" arguments abounding.The only thing I don't see here is a "they only work 8 months a year but get paid for the whole year, screw them" argument.No one, including the original article, asks whose money is being used to BUY the lesson plans.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113036</id>
	<title>are you serious?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258363740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>oh no... teachers who make lesson plans are selling them?!?!?</p><p>I can't believe it, next their going to ask to get paid for teaching students. What is the world coming to?!?!?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>oh no... teachers who make lesson plans are selling them ? ! ? !
? I ca n't believe it , next their going to ask to get paid for teaching students .
What is the world coming to ? ! ? !
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>oh no... teachers who make lesson plans are selling them?!?!
?I can't believe it, next their going to ask to get paid for teaching students.
What is the world coming to?!?!
?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30116104</id>
	<title>Re:What questions?</title>
	<author>tmosley</author>
	<datestamp>1258390500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hmm, so does that mean your employer owns any contributions you have made to any free software project?<br> <br>

An employment contract is not a slavery contract, as many people around here seem to think.  You own what you do in your spare time.  Generally, you can't COMPETE with your employer in your spare time, but there is no competition in education, with each school district owning a monopoly on the local area public education.  Since there is no competition, it's anything goes.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hmm , so does that mean your employer owns any contributions you have made to any free software project ?
An employment contract is not a slavery contract , as many people around here seem to think .
You own what you do in your spare time .
Generally , you ca n't COMPETE with your employer in your spare time , but there is no competition in education , with each school district owning a monopoly on the local area public education .
Since there is no competition , it 's anything goes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hmm, so does that mean your employer owns any contributions you have made to any free software project?
An employment contract is not a slavery contract, as many people around here seem to think.
You own what you do in your spare time.
Generally, you can't COMPETE with your employer in your spare time, but there is no competition in education, with each school district owning a monopoly on the local area public education.
Since there is no competition, it's anything goes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112706</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112748</id>
	<title>US Copyright laws</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258403040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Lesson plans meet the definition of "work for hire" under US copyright laws and as such are owned by the school system or municipality unless there are express agreements giving the rights to the teachers. Teachers are employees and not third party contractors, such as many programmers, and lesson plans are within the scope of a teacher's employment. Lesson plans are the property of the school. State law is only relevant if it expressly gives the rights to the lesson plans to the teachers. Otherwise, the plans belong to the schools.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Lesson plans meet the definition of " work for hire " under US copyright laws and as such are owned by the school system or municipality unless there are express agreements giving the rights to the teachers .
Teachers are employees and not third party contractors , such as many programmers , and lesson plans are within the scope of a teacher 's employment .
Lesson plans are the property of the school .
State law is only relevant if it expressly gives the rights to the lesson plans to the teachers .
Otherwise , the plans belong to the schools .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lesson plans meet the definition of "work for hire" under US copyright laws and as such are owned by the school system or municipality unless there are express agreements giving the rights to the teachers.
Teachers are employees and not third party contractors, such as many programmers, and lesson plans are within the scope of a teacher's employment.
Lesson plans are the property of the school.
State law is only relevant if it expressly gives the rights to the lesson plans to the teachers.
Otherwise, the plans belong to the schools.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30114754</id>
	<title>Re:What questions?</title>
	<author>Cyner</author>
	<datestamp>1258384320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When you are being paid to develop things, lesson plans or software, you have an Agent's Duty to your Employer, which includes the works you create.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When you are being paid to develop things , lesson plans or software , you have an Agent 's Duty to your Employer , which includes the works you create .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you are being paid to develop things, lesson plans or software, you have an Agent's Duty to your Employer, which includes the works you create.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112918</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113288</id>
	<title>Re:What questions?</title>
	<author>TheTurtlesMoves</author>
	<datestamp>1258367400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Many programmers I know on salary work "outside" the clock. Does that mean the company does not own that code? No it does not. The work is *owned* by the salary payer.
<br> <br>
Here in Austria the teachers complain bitterly about the "hours" and yet spend more than a month each at conferences and "professional development" *during* term time. They prepare nothing over the holidays, but get full salary for what they don't do over that time.(Yes this is from a few teachers I know)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Many programmers I know on salary work " outside " the clock .
Does that mean the company does not own that code ?
No it does not .
The work is * owned * by the salary payer .
Here in Austria the teachers complain bitterly about the " hours " and yet spend more than a month each at conferences and " professional development " * during * term time .
They prepare nothing over the holidays , but get full salary for what they do n't do over that time .
( Yes this is from a few teachers I know )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many programmers I know on salary work "outside" the clock.
Does that mean the company does not own that code?
No it does not.
The work is *owned* by the salary payer.
Here in Austria the teachers complain bitterly about the "hours" and yet spend more than a month each at conferences and "professional development" *during* term time.
They prepare nothing over the holidays, but get full salary for what they don't do over that time.
(Yes this is from a few teachers I know)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112614</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112914</id>
	<title>Re:US Copyright laws</title>
	<author>ermon</author>
	<datestamp>1258362180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Disclaimer: I teach classes at the college level.</p><p>I think the situation is more vague than you make it appear. A teacher is hired to teach students, often with the understanding that they have prior experience teaching this class (and that includes lesson plans).</p><p>One the one hand you can argue that a lesson plan is an integral part of the "teaching" activity. On the other, you can argue that teachers develops it on their own to aid their teaching.<br>Often, this lesson plan was developed prior to their current job (these have a tendency to develop over the lifetime of the teacher and are some are passed from one generation to the next)</p><p>Mostly, a lesson plan is an external representation of internalized knowledge and organization of the subject matter.</p><p>Would you argue that the teacher's knowledge of math also belongs to the school if they teach math?</p><p>To use the programmer analogy that has been floating around this discussion, if a programmer learned prolog as part of her current job is she allowed to utilize her newly acquired knowledge in her next job?<br>Can she tutor other programmers in prolog?</p><p>A lesson plan is just that - a form of knowledge preservation. It helps the teacher remember how they taught the class before so they can more easily teach it again and become better over time.</p><p>I am not a lawyer, so I cannot claim to answer whether a lesson plan created by a teacher is a "work for hire", but my intuition is that the consensus among teachers is that it belongs to the teacher.<br>In any case, I do not think the situation is as clear cut as you make it to be, especially if we consider how lesson plans come to be and how they are used.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Disclaimer : I teach classes at the college level.I think the situation is more vague than you make it appear .
A teacher is hired to teach students , often with the understanding that they have prior experience teaching this class ( and that includes lesson plans ) .One the one hand you can argue that a lesson plan is an integral part of the " teaching " activity .
On the other , you can argue that teachers develops it on their own to aid their teaching.Often , this lesson plan was developed prior to their current job ( these have a tendency to develop over the lifetime of the teacher and are some are passed from one generation to the next ) Mostly , a lesson plan is an external representation of internalized knowledge and organization of the subject matter.Would you argue that the teacher 's knowledge of math also belongs to the school if they teach math ? To use the programmer analogy that has been floating around this discussion , if a programmer learned prolog as part of her current job is she allowed to utilize her newly acquired knowledge in her next job ? Can she tutor other programmers in prolog ? A lesson plan is just that - a form of knowledge preservation .
It helps the teacher remember how they taught the class before so they can more easily teach it again and become better over time.I am not a lawyer , so I can not claim to answer whether a lesson plan created by a teacher is a " work for hire " , but my intuition is that the consensus among teachers is that it belongs to the teacher.In any case , I do not think the situation is as clear cut as you make it to be , especially if we consider how lesson plans come to be and how they are used .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Disclaimer: I teach classes at the college level.I think the situation is more vague than you make it appear.
A teacher is hired to teach students, often with the understanding that they have prior experience teaching this class (and that includes lesson plans).One the one hand you can argue that a lesson plan is an integral part of the "teaching" activity.
On the other, you can argue that teachers develops it on their own to aid their teaching.Often, this lesson plan was developed prior to their current job (these have a tendency to develop over the lifetime of the teacher and are some are passed from one generation to the next)Mostly, a lesson plan is an external representation of internalized knowledge and organization of the subject matter.Would you argue that the teacher's knowledge of math also belongs to the school if they teach math?To use the programmer analogy that has been floating around this discussion, if a programmer learned prolog as part of her current job is she allowed to utilize her newly acquired knowledge in her next job?Can she tutor other programmers in prolog?A lesson plan is just that - a form of knowledge preservation.
It helps the teacher remember how they taught the class before so they can more easily teach it again and become better over time.I am not a lawyer, so I cannot claim to answer whether a lesson plan created by a teacher is a "work for hire", but my intuition is that the consensus among teachers is that it belongs to the teacher.In any case, I do not think the situation is as clear cut as you make it to be, especially if we consider how lesson plans come to be and how they are used.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30116942</id>
	<title>Re:Married to a teacher...</title>
	<author>harmonise</author>
	<datestamp>1258394040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I know the bad ones copy the lesson plans out of the back of the text and are headed out the door as soon as their union obligated hours are done. The good ones spend countless hours of their own time at home, on the weekends, during winter, spring and summer break, creating new and innovative ways to engage their students.</p></div></blockquote><p>That's your metric for what makes a good or bad teacher? What if the students taught by the bad teacher perform just as well as the good teacher. Is the "bad" teacher still bad?</p><blockquote><div><p>But, I cant fault someone for wanting to get paid for <b>there</b> time.</p></div></blockquote><p>Uh, yeah.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I know the bad ones copy the lesson plans out of the back of the text and are headed out the door as soon as their union obligated hours are done .
The good ones spend countless hours of their own time at home , on the weekends , during winter , spring and summer break , creating new and innovative ways to engage their students.That 's your metric for what makes a good or bad teacher ?
What if the students taught by the bad teacher perform just as well as the good teacher .
Is the " bad " teacher still bad ? But , I cant fault someone for wanting to get paid for there time.Uh , yeah .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know the bad ones copy the lesson plans out of the back of the text and are headed out the door as soon as their union obligated hours are done.
The good ones spend countless hours of their own time at home, on the weekends, during winter, spring and summer break, creating new and innovative ways to engage their students.That's your metric for what makes a good or bad teacher?
What if the students taught by the bad teacher perform just as well as the good teacher.
Is the "bad" teacher still bad?But, I cant fault someone for wanting to get paid for there time.Uh, yeah.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112776</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30114806</id>
	<title>You all have no idea</title>
	<author>rlp122</author>
	<datestamp>1258384680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's laughable at the number of people here who think that teachers get time to create anything during public school hours.

My wife is a third grade teacher.  She spends literally all of her at work free time in meetings.  Parent meetings.  Administration meetings.  Team meetings.  She gets zero time to grade papers, produce teaching plans, or anything else at school during her regular working day.

She makes a whopping $45k a year which for the Atlanta area will barely rent a one bedroom apartment and keep up a run down car.  If it were not for my job we would have to move just to make ends meet.  Not to mention that she has $60k of education debt @$350 a month.  Plus she still has to do continuing education and pay for it out of her pocket.

It takes roughly 15 to 20 hours of her time at home per week to grade papers and do lesson plans.  It's just this school perhaps?  Not on your life.  She has worked at 4 different schools and every one of them is exactly the same.  Ask any teacher, I bet you get nearly the same results.

I agree the public school system is crap.  But it's not the teachers fault.  They have to teach what the national, state and local school board(s) tell them to teach.  Not to mention that they have to try and get Johnny who doesn't speak English and is dumber than a box of hammers up to the same level as the rest of the class.  For which the rest of the class suffers, because the teacher has to spend one on one time with him.

Before you go bagging on how it's always the teachers fault, perhaps you should put your brain back in and actually think of who controls what the teacher does.  Because they sure don't get to teach what they want to.  If they did, kids might actually get a quality education.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's laughable at the number of people here who think that teachers get time to create anything during public school hours .
My wife is a third grade teacher .
She spends literally all of her at work free time in meetings .
Parent meetings .
Administration meetings .
Team meetings .
She gets zero time to grade papers , produce teaching plans , or anything else at school during her regular working day .
She makes a whopping $ 45k a year which for the Atlanta area will barely rent a one bedroom apartment and keep up a run down car .
If it were not for my job we would have to move just to make ends meet .
Not to mention that she has $ 60k of education debt @ $ 350 a month .
Plus she still has to do continuing education and pay for it out of her pocket .
It takes roughly 15 to 20 hours of her time at home per week to grade papers and do lesson plans .
It 's just this school perhaps ?
Not on your life .
She has worked at 4 different schools and every one of them is exactly the same .
Ask any teacher , I bet you get nearly the same results .
I agree the public school system is crap .
But it 's not the teachers fault .
They have to teach what the national , state and local school board ( s ) tell them to teach .
Not to mention that they have to try and get Johnny who does n't speak English and is dumber than a box of hammers up to the same level as the rest of the class .
For which the rest of the class suffers , because the teacher has to spend one on one time with him .
Before you go bagging on how it 's always the teachers fault , perhaps you should put your brain back in and actually think of who controls what the teacher does .
Because they sure do n't get to teach what they want to .
If they did , kids might actually get a quality education .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's laughable at the number of people here who think that teachers get time to create anything during public school hours.
My wife is a third grade teacher.
She spends literally all of her at work free time in meetings.
Parent meetings.
Administration meetings.
Team meetings.
She gets zero time to grade papers, produce teaching plans, or anything else at school during her regular working day.
She makes a whopping $45k a year which for the Atlanta area will barely rent a one bedroom apartment and keep up a run down car.
If it were not for my job we would have to move just to make ends meet.
Not to mention that she has $60k of education debt @$350 a month.
Plus she still has to do continuing education and pay for it out of her pocket.
It takes roughly 15 to 20 hours of her time at home per week to grade papers and do lesson plans.
It's just this school perhaps?
Not on your life.
She has worked at 4 different schools and every one of them is exactly the same.
Ask any teacher, I bet you get nearly the same results.
I agree the public school system is crap.
But it's not the teachers fault.
They have to teach what the national, state and local school board(s) tell them to teach.
Not to mention that they have to try and get Johnny who doesn't speak English and is dumber than a box of hammers up to the same level as the rest of the class.
For which the rest of the class suffers, because the teacher has to spend one on one time with him.
Before you go bagging on how it's always the teachers fault, perhaps you should put your brain back in and actually think of who controls what the teacher does.
Because they sure don't get to teach what they want to.
If they did, kids might actually get a quality education.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113448</id>
	<title>Walk a mile...</title>
	<author>DigMarx</author>
	<datestamp>1258369920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a teacher in a relatively poorly funded and equipped school, I'd like to say "anyone who isn't a teacher or hasn't been a teacher at some point, STFU." But that'd be rather glib of me.<br>Suffice to say there are plenty of free lesson plans out there for those of us unwilling or unable to come up with our own. If a teacher finds a lesson plan that they feel is worth paying for, go for it. I personally wouldn't pay for a lesson that someone else wrote, but that's just me.<br>Until teachers are paid--not just paid, but respected--commensurate with the job they're doing, to wit: raising your dumbass kid while you bitch about your tax dollars, I don't see how anyone not in our shoes has any right to tell us how to make ends meet. There is a serious disjunct between what is expected of teachers by society and what many parents are willing to do at home to assure their child receives a worthwhile education.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a teacher in a relatively poorly funded and equipped school , I 'd like to say " anyone who is n't a teacher or has n't been a teacher at some point , STFU .
" But that 'd be rather glib of me.Suffice to say there are plenty of free lesson plans out there for those of us unwilling or unable to come up with our own .
If a teacher finds a lesson plan that they feel is worth paying for , go for it .
I personally would n't pay for a lesson that someone else wrote , but that 's just me.Until teachers are paid--not just paid , but respected--commensurate with the job they 're doing , to wit : raising your dumbass kid while you bitch about your tax dollars , I do n't see how anyone not in our shoes has any right to tell us how to make ends meet .
There is a serious disjunct between what is expected of teachers by society and what many parents are willing to do at home to assure their child receives a worthwhile education .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a teacher in a relatively poorly funded and equipped school, I'd like to say "anyone who isn't a teacher or hasn't been a teacher at some point, STFU.
" But that'd be rather glib of me.Suffice to say there are plenty of free lesson plans out there for those of us unwilling or unable to come up with our own.
If a teacher finds a lesson plan that they feel is worth paying for, go for it.
I personally wouldn't pay for a lesson that someone else wrote, but that's just me.Until teachers are paid--not just paid, but respected--commensurate with the job they're doing, to wit: raising your dumbass kid while you bitch about your tax dollars, I don't see how anyone not in our shoes has any right to tell us how to make ends meet.
There is a serious disjunct between what is expected of teachers by society and what many parents are willing to do at home to assure their child receives a worthwhile education.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112776</id>
	<title>Married to a teacher...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258403520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know the bad ones copy the lesson plans out of the back of the text and are headed out the door as soon as their union obligated hours are done.  The good ones spend countless hours of their own time at home, on the weekends, during winter, spring and summer break, creating new and innovative ways to engage their students.</p><p>The best of the best pass those ideas down to other teachers, through workshops and other means.</p><p>But,  I cant fault someone for wanting to get paid for there time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know the bad ones copy the lesson plans out of the back of the text and are headed out the door as soon as their union obligated hours are done .
The good ones spend countless hours of their own time at home , on the weekends , during winter , spring and summer break , creating new and innovative ways to engage their students.The best of the best pass those ideas down to other teachers , through workshops and other means.But , I cant fault someone for wanting to get paid for there time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know the bad ones copy the lesson plans out of the back of the text and are headed out the door as soon as their union obligated hours are done.
The good ones spend countless hours of their own time at home, on the weekends, during winter, spring and summer break, creating new and innovative ways to engage their students.The best of the best pass those ideas down to other teachers, through workshops and other means.But,  I cant fault someone for wanting to get paid for there time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30114510</id>
	<title>what about researchers?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258382460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A researcher who in his "spare time" develops an idea for a machine he just so happens to be working on at work isn't allowed to sell his work, why should public teachers have that right?</p><p>Work related work is...... work. And when you're on the public payroll that work belongs to the public, not to you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A researcher who in his " spare time " develops an idea for a machine he just so happens to be working on at work is n't allowed to sell his work , why should public teachers have that right ? Work related work is...... work. And when you 're on the public payroll that work belongs to the public , not to you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A researcher who in his "spare time" develops an idea for a machine he just so happens to be working on at work isn't allowed to sell his work, why should public teachers have that right?Work related work is...... work. And when you're on the public payroll that work belongs to the public, not to you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30119966</id>
	<title>I am a teacher, so here goes</title>
	<author>Borg Bucolic</author>
	<datestamp>1258403460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've been reading through.... It is amazing how people who have had the experience of being taught are experts on how to do the teaching.

<p>Here's reality. Yes, there are companies that sell canned units with lesson plans. These are generally forced down teacher's throats in spite of the fact that they should have known better.

</p><p>Good teachers match the lesson plans to the students which are different from year to year, class to class, day to day, depending one which way the wind is blowing or whether the moon is full. Canned lessons cannot possibly cover that.

</p><p>Of the teachers who actually write lesson plans (and very few do after a couple of years), most write their lesson plans at home. This is where food, drink, restrooms, and UNDISTURBED time happens. Even then, they have to keep in mind that these lesson plans will not survive an encounter with students or states changing the standards, yet one more time. Lesson plans also occur because someone (a bean counter) requires them, but the teacher doesn't actually use them. Most lesson plans are an outline so that the teacher doesn't forget something. It's like lecture notes, but without the lecture part.

</p><p>Teachers (for-real teachers) don't get 9 months on and 3 months off. They usually work year around, at nights, weekends, and are on call any other time. Average pay is one thing, but starting pay is another. Most are required to take an additional year or more of coursework at their own expense while being payed Sure, teachers write lesson plans and sell them. They also write educational software. Many teachers take on second jobs like flipping burgers, retail sells, and college level teaching. I knew a teacher once who stripped for additional income.  Are the schools going to lay claim to that? One could ask, why do teachers put up with it? They don't have to.

</p><p>Yes, there are bad teachers out there, more than you would think. Most did not start out that way. Most were made by the same system that keeps them employed, and it isn't unions. Obama talks about connecting teacher pay with student success. Great idea! Now, teachers will be less willing to deal with difficult students. You know, the students that need good teachers the most. All the time, politicians talk about parents, students, teachers, and administrators are part of the problem and the solution, but efforts are always directed at the teachers and schools. They often talk about graduation rates, like getting more warm bodies through the system is the problem. They are only peripherally concerned that any content was actually learned.

</p><p>By the way, I teach in a rural school with high minority rates (97\%) and overcrowding. Having parents involved is great, but right now I could use a little less outside help thank you. I don't go to your job and tell you how to do it. I don't require you to re-certify on a regular basis to keep your job (at your expense). I don't tell you what you can say, do, wear, or hang out with to keep your job. I don't redefine what your job every few years. (Like somehow, children have changed that much over the last 5 centuries.) I don't expect you to work many free hours outside of your job environment. I don't expect you to take your work home at all. Don't expect me to satisfy any of your expectations that I don't expect of you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been reading through.... It is amazing how people who have had the experience of being taught are experts on how to do the teaching .
Here 's reality .
Yes , there are companies that sell canned units with lesson plans .
These are generally forced down teacher 's throats in spite of the fact that they should have known better .
Good teachers match the lesson plans to the students which are different from year to year , class to class , day to day , depending one which way the wind is blowing or whether the moon is full .
Canned lessons can not possibly cover that .
Of the teachers who actually write lesson plans ( and very few do after a couple of years ) , most write their lesson plans at home .
This is where food , drink , restrooms , and UNDISTURBED time happens .
Even then , they have to keep in mind that these lesson plans will not survive an encounter with students or states changing the standards , yet one more time .
Lesson plans also occur because someone ( a bean counter ) requires them , but the teacher does n't actually use them .
Most lesson plans are an outline so that the teacher does n't forget something .
It 's like lecture notes , but without the lecture part .
Teachers ( for-real teachers ) do n't get 9 months on and 3 months off .
They usually work year around , at nights , weekends , and are on call any other time .
Average pay is one thing , but starting pay is another .
Most are required to take an additional year or more of coursework at their own expense while being payed Sure , teachers write lesson plans and sell them .
They also write educational software .
Many teachers take on second jobs like flipping burgers , retail sells , and college level teaching .
I knew a teacher once who stripped for additional income .
Are the schools going to lay claim to that ?
One could ask , why do teachers put up with it ?
They do n't have to .
Yes , there are bad teachers out there , more than you would think .
Most did not start out that way .
Most were made by the same system that keeps them employed , and it is n't unions .
Obama talks about connecting teacher pay with student success .
Great idea !
Now , teachers will be less willing to deal with difficult students .
You know , the students that need good teachers the most .
All the time , politicians talk about parents , students , teachers , and administrators are part of the problem and the solution , but efforts are always directed at the teachers and schools .
They often talk about graduation rates , like getting more warm bodies through the system is the problem .
They are only peripherally concerned that any content was actually learned .
By the way , I teach in a rural school with high minority rates ( 97 \ % ) and overcrowding .
Having parents involved is great , but right now I could use a little less outside help thank you .
I do n't go to your job and tell you how to do it .
I do n't require you to re-certify on a regular basis to keep your job ( at your expense ) .
I do n't tell you what you can say , do , wear , or hang out with to keep your job .
I do n't redefine what your job every few years .
( Like somehow , children have changed that much over the last 5 centuries .
) I do n't expect you to work many free hours outside of your job environment .
I do n't expect you to take your work home at all .
Do n't expect me to satisfy any of your expectations that I do n't expect of you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been reading through.... It is amazing how people who have had the experience of being taught are experts on how to do the teaching.
Here's reality.
Yes, there are companies that sell canned units with lesson plans.
These are generally forced down teacher's throats in spite of the fact that they should have known better.
Good teachers match the lesson plans to the students which are different from year to year, class to class, day to day, depending one which way the wind is blowing or whether the moon is full.
Canned lessons cannot possibly cover that.
Of the teachers who actually write lesson plans (and very few do after a couple of years), most write their lesson plans at home.
This is where food, drink, restrooms, and UNDISTURBED time happens.
Even then, they have to keep in mind that these lesson plans will not survive an encounter with students or states changing the standards, yet one more time.
Lesson plans also occur because someone (a bean counter) requires them, but the teacher doesn't actually use them.
Most lesson plans are an outline so that the teacher doesn't forget something.
It's like lecture notes, but without the lecture part.
Teachers (for-real teachers) don't get 9 months on and 3 months off.
They usually work year around, at nights, weekends, and are on call any other time.
Average pay is one thing, but starting pay is another.
Most are required to take an additional year or more of coursework at their own expense while being payed Sure, teachers write lesson plans and sell them.
They also write educational software.
Many teachers take on second jobs like flipping burgers, retail sells, and college level teaching.
I knew a teacher once who stripped for additional income.
Are the schools going to lay claim to that?
One could ask, why do teachers put up with it?
They don't have to.
Yes, there are bad teachers out there, more than you would think.
Most did not start out that way.
Most were made by the same system that keeps them employed, and it isn't unions.
Obama talks about connecting teacher pay with student success.
Great idea!
Now, teachers will be less willing to deal with difficult students.
You know, the students that need good teachers the most.
All the time, politicians talk about parents, students, teachers, and administrators are part of the problem and the solution, but efforts are always directed at the teachers and schools.
They often talk about graduation rates, like getting more warm bodies through the system is the problem.
They are only peripherally concerned that any content was actually learned.
By the way, I teach in a rural school with high minority rates (97\%) and overcrowding.
Having parents involved is great, but right now I could use a little less outside help thank you.
I don't go to your job and tell you how to do it.
I don't require you to re-certify on a regular basis to keep your job (at your expense).
I don't tell you what you can say, do, wear, or hang out with to keep your job.
I don't redefine what your job every few years.
(Like somehow, children have changed that much over the last 5 centuries.
) I don't expect you to work many free hours outside of your job environment.
I don't expect you to take your work home at all.
Don't expect me to satisfy any of your expectations that I don't expect of you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30115896</id>
	<title>Re:You all have no idea</title>
	<author>Renraku</author>
	<datestamp>1258389600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've known many great people who have gotten fucked by 'the system' once they complete their degrees and get a job in education.  They can barely afford to survive and pay off their loans, and God forbid they need good insurance or wreck their car and don't have full coverage.</p><p>We need for the educators to be paid better, or at least, fairly.  Perhaps they can have support staff to grade the papers, perhaps they can be paid fair overtime if the support staff fail them.  Taxes would have to be raised, yes, but I'm tired of seeing the best teachers living in a tiny four room house with a '96 Mazda with an oil leak because they'll never be able to afford anything more since 80\% of their free time goes to school.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've known many great people who have gotten fucked by 'the system ' once they complete their degrees and get a job in education .
They can barely afford to survive and pay off their loans , and God forbid they need good insurance or wreck their car and do n't have full coverage.We need for the educators to be paid better , or at least , fairly .
Perhaps they can have support staff to grade the papers , perhaps they can be paid fair overtime if the support staff fail them .
Taxes would have to be raised , yes , but I 'm tired of seeing the best teachers living in a tiny four room house with a '96 Mazda with an oil leak because they 'll never be able to afford anything more since 80 \ % of their free time goes to school .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've known many great people who have gotten fucked by 'the system' once they complete their degrees and get a job in education.
They can barely afford to survive and pay off their loans, and God forbid they need good insurance or wreck their car and don't have full coverage.We need for the educators to be paid better, or at least, fairly.
Perhaps they can have support staff to grade the papers, perhaps they can be paid fair overtime if the support staff fail them.
Taxes would have to be raised, yes, but I'm tired of seeing the best teachers living in a tiny four room house with a '96 Mazda with an oil leak because they'll never be able to afford anything more since 80\% of their free time goes to school.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30114806</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30138352</id>
	<title>teacher hate leads to 1,000 myths</title>
	<author>wallydallas</author>
	<datestamp>1258468740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you happen to know a teacher who believes in social justice and open source lessons plans tell them to contact me at an experimental site I'm about to launch, using FOSS fyi.<br>


<a href="http://www.teachchange.org/" title="teachchange.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.teachchange.org/</a> [teachchange.org] <br>
<br>

Below are 23 mostly free lesson publishing sites for k-12 and University levels.  You can contribute to the bookmarks using tags like lessonpublishing if you would like to help.<br>


<a href="http://groups.diigo.com/group/teachchange/content/tag/lessonpublishing" title="diigo.com" rel="nofollow">http://groups.diigo.com/group/teachchange/content/tag/lessonpublishing</a> [diigo.com] <br> <br>



I'd like to know how many slashdot teacher haters have ever volunteered in a diverse public school or taught 36 kids in a trailer?  I have.  I've taught grades 6-12 in public schools for six years. It was my second career after working 6 years between Compaq and Macromedia.  <br>


By the time the haters finish cheerleading each other on this topic there will be 1000 myths. Barf.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you happen to know a teacher who believes in social justice and open source lessons plans tell them to contact me at an experimental site I 'm about to launch , using FOSS fyi .
http : //www.teachchange.org/ [ teachchange.org ] Below are 23 mostly free lesson publishing sites for k-12 and University levels .
You can contribute to the bookmarks using tags like lessonpublishing if you would like to help .
http : //groups.diigo.com/group/teachchange/content/tag/lessonpublishing [ diigo.com ] I 'd like to know how many slashdot teacher haters have ever volunteered in a diverse public school or taught 36 kids in a trailer ?
I have .
I 've taught grades 6-12 in public schools for six years .
It was my second career after working 6 years between Compaq and Macromedia .
By the time the haters finish cheerleading each other on this topic there will be 1000 myths .
Barf .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you happen to know a teacher who believes in social justice and open source lessons plans tell them to contact me at an experimental site I'm about to launch, using FOSS fyi.
http://www.teachchange.org/ [teachchange.org] 


Below are 23 mostly free lesson publishing sites for k-12 and University levels.
You can contribute to the bookmarks using tags like lessonpublishing if you would like to help.
http://groups.diigo.com/group/teachchange/content/tag/lessonpublishing [diigo.com]  



I'd like to know how many slashdot teacher haters have ever volunteered in a diverse public school or taught 36 kids in a trailer?
I have.
I've taught grades 6-12 in public schools for six years.
It was my second career after working 6 years between Compaq and Macromedia.
By the time the haters finish cheerleading each other on this topic there will be 1000 myths.
Barf.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30116468</id>
	<title>Re:You all have no idea (yes we do...)</title>
	<author>scrout</author>
	<datestamp>1258392240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>
When you dorks print your teacher salaries, please add and gross up for the benefit package and your less than full time work per year, and lots of other time off, and health plans made in heaven.
In  Oregon the average is somewhere around 54K, for 9 months, with a benefit package worth another 50 percent.
Yes, 50 percent.
Then factor in a retirement plan that pays (if you started before 1996) at 30 years 108\% of base pay.
So yes, retire at 52 at 60k+ for the rest of your life.  And the kicker, your 401k retirement is guaranteed 8\% return, so you have not even had a recession lately!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And the "fix" that was put in to solve the greed after 1996?  Well, you ONLY make 85\% forever.
So sorry, I am not crying for you.
If you are whining, then pick another freaking job, or come to the private sector and enjoy the business taxes, the shitty health care for $1300 per month, layoffs, pay cuts, furlough days, etc.</htmltext>
<tokenext>When you dorks print your teacher salaries , please add and gross up for the benefit package and your less than full time work per year , and lots of other time off , and health plans made in heaven .
In Oregon the average is somewhere around 54K , for 9 months , with a benefit package worth another 50 percent .
Yes , 50 percent .
Then factor in a retirement plan that pays ( if you started before 1996 ) at 30 years 108 \ % of base pay .
So yes , retire at 52 at 60k + for the rest of your life .
And the kicker , your 401k retirement is guaranteed 8 \ % return , so you have not even had a recession lately ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
And the " fix " that was put in to solve the greed after 1996 ?
Well , you ONLY make 85 \ % forever .
So sorry , I am not crying for you .
If you are whining , then pick another freaking job , or come to the private sector and enjoy the business taxes , the shitty health care for $ 1300 per month , layoffs , pay cuts , furlough days , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
When you dorks print your teacher salaries, please add and gross up for the benefit package and your less than full time work per year, and lots of other time off, and health plans made in heaven.
In  Oregon the average is somewhere around 54K, for 9 months, with a benefit package worth another 50 percent.
Yes, 50 percent.
Then factor in a retirement plan that pays (if you started before 1996) at 30 years 108\% of base pay.
So yes, retire at 52 at 60k+ for the rest of your life.
And the kicker, your 401k retirement is guaranteed 8\% return, so you have not even had a recession lately!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And the "fix" that was put in to solve the greed after 1996?
Well, you ONLY make 85\% forever.
So sorry, I am not crying for you.
If you are whining, then pick another freaking job, or come to the private sector and enjoy the business taxes, the shitty health care for $1300 per month, layoffs, pay cuts, furlough days, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30114806</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30121828</id>
	<title>Simples... or not</title>
	<author>DaveGod</author>
	<datestamp>1258367400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If a teacher creates the lesson plan during the working day, using school resources, the plan belongs to the school. Fair enough.</p><p>If the teacher creates the lesson plan wholly in his own time using his own resources, it belongs to him. Fair enough.</p><p>Well OK nothing in life is quite so simple, he is likely to have to prove that he intended on creating the work for his own purposes, and not the school - it can't be incidental to his employment. There may also be a question over the timing of creation - I suspect any work created during "office hours" in the school holidays still counts as being created in school time. Note that teachers may be required to attend the school during class times (8.30 - 3.30 or whatever) but they will still be "at work" for 8 hours a day or whatever, they are merely allowed to work from home and can do those other hours as they see fit. Therefore a teacher may find it difficult to prove that they did not create the plan "in school time".</p><p>There may also be questions over using purchased lesson plans - a teacher is under a contract of service. The school is specifically paying for the work that person, whom cannot subcontract their duties. It would be entirely within the rights of the employer to require that the teacher creates their own lesson plan, though as swapping lesson plans is general practice the school would likely to have to specify this in the contract of employment or general policy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If a teacher creates the lesson plan during the working day , using school resources , the plan belongs to the school .
Fair enough.If the teacher creates the lesson plan wholly in his own time using his own resources , it belongs to him .
Fair enough.Well OK nothing in life is quite so simple , he is likely to have to prove that he intended on creating the work for his own purposes , and not the school - it ca n't be incidental to his employment .
There may also be a question over the timing of creation - I suspect any work created during " office hours " in the school holidays still counts as being created in school time .
Note that teachers may be required to attend the school during class times ( 8.30 - 3.30 or whatever ) but they will still be " at work " for 8 hours a day or whatever , they are merely allowed to work from home and can do those other hours as they see fit .
Therefore a teacher may find it difficult to prove that they did not create the plan " in school time " .There may also be questions over using purchased lesson plans - a teacher is under a contract of service .
The school is specifically paying for the work that person , whom can not subcontract their duties .
It would be entirely within the rights of the employer to require that the teacher creates their own lesson plan , though as swapping lesson plans is general practice the school would likely to have to specify this in the contract of employment or general policy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If a teacher creates the lesson plan during the working day, using school resources, the plan belongs to the school.
Fair enough.If the teacher creates the lesson plan wholly in his own time using his own resources, it belongs to him.
Fair enough.Well OK nothing in life is quite so simple, he is likely to have to prove that he intended on creating the work for his own purposes, and not the school - it can't be incidental to his employment.
There may also be a question over the timing of creation - I suspect any work created during "office hours" in the school holidays still counts as being created in school time.
Note that teachers may be required to attend the school during class times (8.30 - 3.30 or whatever) but they will still be "at work" for 8 hours a day or whatever, they are merely allowed to work from home and can do those other hours as they see fit.
Therefore a teacher may find it difficult to prove that they did not create the plan "in school time".There may also be questions over using purchased lesson plans - a teacher is under a contract of service.
The school is specifically paying for the work that person, whom cannot subcontract their duties.
It would be entirely within the rights of the employer to require that the teacher creates their own lesson plan, though as swapping lesson plans is general practice the school would likely to have to specify this in the contract of employment or general policy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112582</id>
	<title>public... selling</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258314540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>who benefits, the teachers or is it a way to expand the educaiton system revenues?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>who benefits , the teachers or is it a way to expand the educaiton system revenues ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>who benefits, the teachers or is it a way to expand the educaiton system revenues?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112846</id>
	<title>Re:US Copyright laws</title>
	<author>kentsta</author>
	<datestamp>1258404420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The hours that teachers are paid to be on campus offer little or no time to actually plan instruction. Most teachers do this planning in their own time - how is this then the property of the school system?

Not that I am advocating new teachers purchasing the plans of experienced teachers...new teachers (such as myself) need to create their own plans as part of learning experience. But in principle, I see nothing wrong with teachers selling what they have created.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The hours that teachers are paid to be on campus offer little or no time to actually plan instruction .
Most teachers do this planning in their own time - how is this then the property of the school system ?
Not that I am advocating new teachers purchasing the plans of experienced teachers...new teachers ( such as myself ) need to create their own plans as part of learning experience .
But in principle , I see nothing wrong with teachers selling what they have created .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The hours that teachers are paid to be on campus offer little or no time to actually plan instruction.
Most teachers do this planning in their own time - how is this then the property of the school system?
Not that I am advocating new teachers purchasing the plans of experienced teachers...new teachers (such as myself) need to create their own plans as part of learning experience.
But in principle, I see nothing wrong with teachers selling what they have created.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112882</id>
	<title>Peanuts Compared to Textbook Rip-Offs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258404960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Given the exorbitant, outrageous, and staggering prices that even first year post-secondary text books sell for, this doesn't seem worth a moment's thought. <br> <br>

Once you've figured out how to price text books about the same as a best seller hard-cover book instead $100-200 a copy, I'll be willing to worry about teachers selling lesson plans.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Given the exorbitant , outrageous , and staggering prices that even first year post-secondary text books sell for , this does n't seem worth a moment 's thought .
Once you 've figured out how to price text books about the same as a best seller hard-cover book instead $ 100-200 a copy , I 'll be willing to worry about teachers selling lesson plans .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Given the exorbitant, outrageous, and staggering prices that even first year post-secondary text books sell for, this doesn't seem worth a moment's thought.
Once you've figured out how to price text books about the same as a best seller hard-cover book instead $100-200 a copy, I'll be willing to worry about teachers selling lesson plans.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113398</id>
	<title>Re:What questions?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258369080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But you CAN go home, write some code that might help you at work (but that you're not paid to write), and sell it to other coders.  The argument school boards are making here is that these lesson plans are district property EVEN WHEN written off the clock.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But you CAN go home , write some code that might help you at work ( but that you 're not paid to write ) , and sell it to other coders .
The argument school boards are making here is that these lesson plans are district property EVEN WHEN written off the clock .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But you CAN go home, write some code that might help you at work (but that you're not paid to write), and sell it to other coders.
The argument school boards are making here is that these lesson plans are district property EVEN WHEN written off the clock.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112706</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30122300</id>
	<title>Re:What questions?</title>
	<author>Totenglocke</author>
	<datestamp>1258368840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Teaching is a service - teachers are paid to provide a service.  The creating of lesson plans is NOT part of the service.  Does it allow one to perform said service?  Yes, but it is separate.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>If you write software for a living, you can't go home and sell your days coding, it belongs to your employer.</p></div><p>Totally different.  This would be akin to you being hired to write program X for a company.  In order to do X, you MUST have code Y, which they won't provide you with and will not pay you to write.  You must write code Y on your own time and at your own expense.  This means that the company owns X, but you still own Y.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>It's not compulsory, it's an exchange where you get money to buy shiny things and your employer get whatever they pay you for.</p></div><p>So you're one of those people that thinks that because you take a job, they own you and everything you do 24/7/365.  That's not how it works - they get you for the contracted hours and anything outside of that is your time.  The fact that most teachers go in an hour before school starts and then end up working until 9pm or so after they get home doesn't mean that "they get paid for it".  No, they don't.  They do work without getting paid so that they can do a better job / keep up with what's required.  If you actually knew any teachers, you're realize how idiotic your point is.  I know many teachers, both friends and family, and I've seen the insane amount of hours that they put in coupled with putting up with your stupid brats all day.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Teaching is a service - teachers are paid to provide a service .
The creating of lesson plans is NOT part of the service .
Does it allow one to perform said service ?
Yes , but it is separate.If you write software for a living , you ca n't go home and sell your days coding , it belongs to your employer.Totally different .
This would be akin to you being hired to write program X for a company .
In order to do X , you MUST have code Y , which they wo n't provide you with and will not pay you to write .
You must write code Y on your own time and at your own expense .
This means that the company owns X , but you still own Y.It 's not compulsory , it 's an exchange where you get money to buy shiny things and your employer get whatever they pay you for.So you 're one of those people that thinks that because you take a job , they own you and everything you do 24/7/365 .
That 's not how it works - they get you for the contracted hours and anything outside of that is your time .
The fact that most teachers go in an hour before school starts and then end up working until 9pm or so after they get home does n't mean that " they get paid for it " .
No , they do n't .
They do work without getting paid so that they can do a better job / keep up with what 's required .
If you actually knew any teachers , you 're realize how idiotic your point is .
I know many teachers , both friends and family , and I 've seen the insane amount of hours that they put in coupled with putting up with your stupid brats all day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Teaching is a service - teachers are paid to provide a service.
The creating of lesson plans is NOT part of the service.
Does it allow one to perform said service?
Yes, but it is separate.If you write software for a living, you can't go home and sell your days coding, it belongs to your employer.Totally different.
This would be akin to you being hired to write program X for a company.
In order to do X, you MUST have code Y, which they won't provide you with and will not pay you to write.
You must write code Y on your own time and at your own expense.
This means that the company owns X, but you still own Y.It's not compulsory, it's an exchange where you get money to buy shiny things and your employer get whatever they pay you for.So you're one of those people that thinks that because you take a job, they own you and everything you do 24/7/365.
That's not how it works - they get you for the contracted hours and anything outside of that is your time.
The fact that most teachers go in an hour before school starts and then end up working until 9pm or so after they get home doesn't mean that "they get paid for it".
No, they don't.
They do work without getting paid so that they can do a better job / keep up with what's required.
If you actually knew any teachers, you're realize how idiotic your point is.
I know many teachers, both friends and family, and I've seen the insane amount of hours that they put in coupled with putting up with your stupid brats all day.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112706</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30115960</id>
	<title>Re:What questions?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258389900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> If you write software for a living, you can't go home and sell your days coding, it belongs to your employer.</p> </div><p>If my job said that any coding I did at home belonged to them, I would laugh and walk. I think you need to rethink your argument there.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you write software for a living , you ca n't go home and sell your days coding , it belongs to your employer .
If my job said that any coding I did at home belonged to them , I would laugh and walk .
I think you need to rethink your argument there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> If you write software for a living, you can't go home and sell your days coding, it belongs to your employer.
If my job said that any coding I did at home belonged to them, I would laugh and walk.
I think you need to rethink your argument there.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112706</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113884</id>
	<title>States mandate curriculum.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258375920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1.  Teachers are overpaid babysitters.  Esp in Urban districts.<br>2.  Busing is probably the biggest single issue with lack of schools achieving any significant educational goals.<br>3.  Teachers Unions and Tenure should be outlawed.  Few Government employees get to strike.. yet every year, like clockwork, local Teachers Unions are picketing because they didn't get a 4-5\% COLA or (HORRORS!) have a co-pay for health insurance!!!!<br>4.  STATES MANDATE A HUGE PORTION OF THE SCHOOL YEAR.</p><p>What are all these wonderful, whimsical lesson plans going to go when they do not cover the State mandated topics?</p><p>I've been in 8 different school districts (public, private and DoD Contracted), large and small, 3 Universities.  None of the 'lesson plans' significantly differed to the point of being memorable.   Most of the teachers were adequate but most were simply regurgitating LAST YEARS plan.  Ask a T/A is there is any 'lesson plan magic' going on year after year..... I never saw it.</p><p>I am not a teacher, nor did I benefit greatly from any of them.  I did the minimums to pass and (C student) and still got into top Universities.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
Teachers are overpaid babysitters .
Esp in Urban districts.2 .
Busing is probably the biggest single issue with lack of schools achieving any significant educational goals.3 .
Teachers Unions and Tenure should be outlawed .
Few Government employees get to strike.. yet every year , like clockwork , local Teachers Unions are picketing because they did n't get a 4-5 \ % COLA or ( HORRORS !
) have a co-pay for health insurance ! ! ! ! 4 .
STATES MANDATE A HUGE PORTION OF THE SCHOOL YEAR.What are all these wonderful , whimsical lesson plans going to go when they do not cover the State mandated topics ? I 've been in 8 different school districts ( public , private and DoD Contracted ) , large and small , 3 Universities .
None of the 'lesson plans ' significantly differed to the point of being memorable .
Most of the teachers were adequate but most were simply regurgitating LAST YEARS plan .
Ask a T/A is there is any 'lesson plan magic ' going on year after year..... I never saw it.I am not a teacher , nor did I benefit greatly from any of them .
I did the minimums to pass and ( C student ) and still got into top Universities .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.
Teachers are overpaid babysitters.
Esp in Urban districts.2.
Busing is probably the biggest single issue with lack of schools achieving any significant educational goals.3.
Teachers Unions and Tenure should be outlawed.
Few Government employees get to strike.. yet every year, like clockwork, local Teachers Unions are picketing because they didn't get a 4-5\% COLA or (HORRORS!
) have a co-pay for health insurance!!!!4.
STATES MANDATE A HUGE PORTION OF THE SCHOOL YEAR.What are all these wonderful, whimsical lesson plans going to go when they do not cover the State mandated topics?I've been in 8 different school districts (public, private and DoD Contracted), large and small, 3 Universities.
None of the 'lesson plans' significantly differed to the point of being memorable.
Most of the teachers were adequate but most were simply regurgitating LAST YEARS plan.
Ask a T/A is there is any 'lesson plan magic' going on year after year..... I never saw it.I am not a teacher, nor did I benefit greatly from any of them.
I did the minimums to pass and (C student) and still got into top Universities.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113198</id>
	<title>Doesn't seem like they should be able to sell them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258366020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So it seems it's perfectly fine for state-employed teachers to sell each other lesson plans, but their unions continue to try and block access to the "teacher edition" of books for homeschooling parents.</p><p>I wonder if they'd try to block homeschool parents from posting their lesson plans online too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So it seems it 's perfectly fine for state-employed teachers to sell each other lesson plans , but their unions continue to try and block access to the " teacher edition " of books for homeschooling parents.I wonder if they 'd try to block homeschool parents from posting their lesson plans online too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So it seems it's perfectly fine for state-employed teachers to sell each other lesson plans, but their unions continue to try and block access to the "teacher edition" of books for homeschooling parents.I wonder if they'd try to block homeschool parents from posting their lesson plans online too.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30114168</id>
	<title>Not true</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258378800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Unless the employment contract explicitly transfers ownership of creative works to the employer then the lesson plans legally do not belong to the school.</p></div><p>That's simply not true. The employment contract doesn't need to explicitly mention anything about ownership of creative works. If you are simply an "employee" as opposed to an independent contractor, your work falls under the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work-for-hire" title="wikipedia.org">work for hire</a> [wikipedia.org] doctrine, and your employer owns the copyright.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>In the world of copyrights and contracts this stuff is cut and dry, the default in all cases - including software development - is for ownership to rest with the creator, full stop.</p></div><p>No, it's not cut and dry. See, for example, the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community\_for\_Creative\_Non-Violence\_v.\_Reid" title="wikipedia.org">Community for Creative Non-Violence.</a> [wikipedia.org] And the "default" would depend on whether you're an employee or a contractor. If you're a coder who's been hired as a salaried member for some company and that's your full time job, the "default" is probably that you're an employee and you're creating works for hire, so ownership rests with your employer, full stop. </p><p>That said, at least at the university level, the culture is that works by professors are not works for hire. I'm not sure if there really is a sound legal basis for that (probably depends on their employment contract), but any university who tried to assert ownership over professors' work would find itself being attacked on all sides.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless the employment contract explicitly transfers ownership of creative works to the employer then the lesson plans legally do not belong to the school.That 's simply not true .
The employment contract does n't need to explicitly mention anything about ownership of creative works .
If you are simply an " employee " as opposed to an independent contractor , your work falls under the work for hire [ wikipedia.org ] doctrine , and your employer owns the copyright.In the world of copyrights and contracts this stuff is cut and dry , the default in all cases - including software development - is for ownership to rest with the creator , full stop.No , it 's not cut and dry .
See , for example , the Community for Creative Non-Violence .
[ wikipedia.org ] And the " default " would depend on whether you 're an employee or a contractor .
If you 're a coder who 's been hired as a salaried member for some company and that 's your full time job , the " default " is probably that you 're an employee and you 're creating works for hire , so ownership rests with your employer , full stop .
That said , at least at the university level , the culture is that works by professors are not works for hire .
I 'm not sure if there really is a sound legal basis for that ( probably depends on their employment contract ) , but any university who tried to assert ownership over professors ' work would find itself being attacked on all sides .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unless the employment contract explicitly transfers ownership of creative works to the employer then the lesson plans legally do not belong to the school.That's simply not true.
The employment contract doesn't need to explicitly mention anything about ownership of creative works.
If you are simply an "employee" as opposed to an independent contractor, your work falls under the work for hire [wikipedia.org] doctrine, and your employer owns the copyright.In the world of copyrights and contracts this stuff is cut and dry, the default in all cases - including software development - is for ownership to rest with the creator, full stop.No, it's not cut and dry.
See, for example, the Community for Creative Non-Violence.
[wikipedia.org] And the "default" would depend on whether you're an employee or a contractor.
If you're a coder who's been hired as a salaried member for some company and that's your full time job, the "default" is probably that you're an employee and you're creating works for hire, so ownership rests with your employer, full stop.
That said, at least at the university level, the culture is that works by professors are not works for hire.
I'm not sure if there really is a sound legal basis for that (probably depends on their employment contract), but any university who tried to assert ownership over professors' work would find itself being attacked on all sides.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112918</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112802</id>
	<title>In soviet Russia</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258403940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>M&amp;M's Sort You!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>M&amp;M 's Sort You !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>M&amp;M's Sort You!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112792</id>
	<title>Re:What questions?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258403700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I work at a coffee shop...</p></div><p>Good to see you put that Masters in Philosophy to good use...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I work at a coffee shop...Good to see you put that Masters in Philosophy to good use.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work at a coffee shop...Good to see you put that Masters in Philosophy to good use...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112614</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30114834</id>
	<title>Re:What questions?</title>
	<author>scamper\_22</author>
	<datestamp>1258384800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I love these myths.</p><p>Teachers don't make a lot of money?  Depends on what state you are in.<br>They make 6 figures in New York.  They make around 80K is many other states.</p><p>And the median wage in the US is around 30-40K.</p><p>In any case, this is a little worrying as they are paid from the public purse.  What they produced should be owned by the public.  What's next, a senior teacher refuses to help transition a younger teacher?  They start demanding payment for these lesson plans?  Pardon me, if I've seen more cooperation and 'greater good' displayed in the private sector if this is where it is heading.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I love these myths.Teachers do n't make a lot of money ?
Depends on what state you are in.They make 6 figures in New York .
They make around 80K is many other states.And the median wage in the US is around 30-40K.In any case , this is a little worrying as they are paid from the public purse .
What they produced should be owned by the public .
What 's next , a senior teacher refuses to help transition a younger teacher ?
They start demanding payment for these lesson plans ?
Pardon me , if I 've seen more cooperation and 'greater good ' displayed in the private sector if this is where it is heading .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I love these myths.Teachers don't make a lot of money?
Depends on what state you are in.They make 6 figures in New York.
They make around 80K is many other states.And the median wage in the US is around 30-40K.In any case, this is a little worrying as they are paid from the public purse.
What they produced should be owned by the public.
What's next, a senior teacher refuses to help transition a younger teacher?
They start demanding payment for these lesson plans?
Pardon me, if I've seen more cooperation and 'greater good' displayed in the private sector if this is where it is heading.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112614</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30124744</id>
	<title>teachers are not underpaid:</title>
	<author>mschuyler</author>
	<datestamp>1258382100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Been there. Done that. Retired. There are a lot of unfounded assumptions in these posts. Basics if you choose teaching it will take some time and at first you won't get paid very well, but if you hang in there and get more credits, going to summer school for about ten years, you'll wind up doing okay by your mid thirties. In Seattle, a school teacher with 15 years experience (average age 37-40), with a BA, MA and +135 hours (all those summer quarters for 10 years) makes $75K (2009-2010 salary schedule) and gets summers off--because you've peaked on credits and don't need to do that any more, plus Christmas, Spring break, etc. and all the bennies you could want. Compared to private employment where you're lucky to get three weeks vacation a year that's close to $100K equivalent. But that's the big city, too.</p><p>Smaller districts often pay a bit less, but smaller districts are ALSO in more rural areas where the cost of living is less. In many places in WA, teachers are among the highest paid folks in town. All totaled it's a pretty decent middle class lifestyle.</p><p>Not saying it's all roses. Teaching can be a very hard job with lots of expectations from parents, lots of paperwork, and lots of extra time at night preparing for the next day. And frankly, there are lots of places I wouldn't want to be a teacher at all. You know what I mean. Also, it takes awhile to move up on the salary schedule to where you actually make ok money. The first few years can be pretty dismal.</p><p>Retirement is pretty good. In WA a teacher with 40 years experience (25-65) would get 80\% of pay plus FICA. By the time YOU retire, there might be nothing! But that's the idea. You actually would make more money retired than working: $60K retirement plus $22K FICA.</p><p>It's one of those fields where, depending on where you are at and what you teach, it could be a GREAT job, or a piss poor one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Been there .
Done that .
Retired. There are a lot of unfounded assumptions in these posts .
Basics if you choose teaching it will take some time and at first you wo n't get paid very well , but if you hang in there and get more credits , going to summer school for about ten years , you 'll wind up doing okay by your mid thirties .
In Seattle , a school teacher with 15 years experience ( average age 37-40 ) , with a BA , MA and + 135 hours ( all those summer quarters for 10 years ) makes $ 75K ( 2009-2010 salary schedule ) and gets summers off--because you 've peaked on credits and do n't need to do that any more , plus Christmas , Spring break , etc .
and all the bennies you could want .
Compared to private employment where you 're lucky to get three weeks vacation a year that 's close to $ 100K equivalent .
But that 's the big city , too.Smaller districts often pay a bit less , but smaller districts are ALSO in more rural areas where the cost of living is less .
In many places in WA , teachers are among the highest paid folks in town .
All totaled it 's a pretty decent middle class lifestyle.Not saying it 's all roses .
Teaching can be a very hard job with lots of expectations from parents , lots of paperwork , and lots of extra time at night preparing for the next day .
And frankly , there are lots of places I would n't want to be a teacher at all .
You know what I mean .
Also , it takes awhile to move up on the salary schedule to where you actually make ok money .
The first few years can be pretty dismal.Retirement is pretty good .
In WA a teacher with 40 years experience ( 25-65 ) would get 80 \ % of pay plus FICA .
By the time YOU retire , there might be nothing !
But that 's the idea .
You actually would make more money retired than working : $ 60K retirement plus $ 22K FICA.It 's one of those fields where , depending on where you are at and what you teach , it could be a GREAT job , or a piss poor one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Been there.
Done that.
Retired. There are a lot of unfounded assumptions in these posts.
Basics if you choose teaching it will take some time and at first you won't get paid very well, but if you hang in there and get more credits, going to summer school for about ten years, you'll wind up doing okay by your mid thirties.
In Seattle, a school teacher with 15 years experience (average age 37-40), with a BA, MA and +135 hours (all those summer quarters for 10 years) makes $75K (2009-2010 salary schedule) and gets summers off--because you've peaked on credits and don't need to do that any more, plus Christmas, Spring break, etc.
and all the bennies you could want.
Compared to private employment where you're lucky to get three weeks vacation a year that's close to $100K equivalent.
But that's the big city, too.Smaller districts often pay a bit less, but smaller districts are ALSO in more rural areas where the cost of living is less.
In many places in WA, teachers are among the highest paid folks in town.
All totaled it's a pretty decent middle class lifestyle.Not saying it's all roses.
Teaching can be a very hard job with lots of expectations from parents, lots of paperwork, and lots of extra time at night preparing for the next day.
And frankly, there are lots of places I wouldn't want to be a teacher at all.
You know what I mean.
Also, it takes awhile to move up on the salary schedule to where you actually make ok money.
The first few years can be pretty dismal.Retirement is pretty good.
In WA a teacher with 40 years experience (25-65) would get 80\% of pay plus FICA.
By the time YOU retire, there might be nothing!
But that's the idea.
You actually would make more money retired than working: $60K retirement plus $22K FICA.It's one of those fields where, depending on where you are at and what you teach, it could be a GREAT job, or a piss poor one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30114170</id>
	<title>Or you find similar lesson plans for free online..</title>
	<author>bigbigbison</author>
	<datestamp>1258378800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I use google to search for lesson plan ideas all the time. There are plenty of them for free out there. Sure they may be of dubious quality but I wouldn't ever use them without changing them to my own needs anyway. I'm skeptical that this is anything more than a newspaper fluff piece.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I use google to search for lesson plan ideas all the time .
There are plenty of them for free out there .
Sure they may be of dubious quality but I would n't ever use them without changing them to my own needs anyway .
I 'm skeptical that this is anything more than a newspaper fluff piece .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I use google to search for lesson plan ideas all the time.
There are plenty of them for free out there.
Sure they may be of dubious quality but I wouldn't ever use them without changing them to my own needs anyway.
I'm skeptical that this is anything more than a newspaper fluff piece.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30114320</id>
	<title>I have lots of friends who are teachers</title>
	<author>bucklesl</author>
	<datestamp>1258380540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>and without a doubt <b>they all hate it</b>.  A couple have master's degrees and for that they get an extra $1000/per year.  They work practically all day into the evening grading papers, coming up with lesson plans, meeting with parents, etc.  One friend who stopped teaching just couldn't afford to do it anymore, because she was paying for her own teaching and students' school supplies out of her paycheck, which she said was around $1000 per year.  I know two other teachers who have quit as well, one saying how she ended up just being a babysitter to problem children.</p><p>Good for them for selling their lesson plans!  I know if and when I have children, the teachers will be well funded, I'll have none of this BS about teachers paying for the kids with loser parents.  That's what those parents are, because if you can't afford $5/month for pencils and paper then WTF are you doing?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>and without a doubt they all hate it .
A couple have master 's degrees and for that they get an extra $ 1000/per year .
They work practically all day into the evening grading papers , coming up with lesson plans , meeting with parents , etc .
One friend who stopped teaching just could n't afford to do it anymore , because she was paying for her own teaching and students ' school supplies out of her paycheck , which she said was around $ 1000 per year .
I know two other teachers who have quit as well , one saying how she ended up just being a babysitter to problem children.Good for them for selling their lesson plans !
I know if and when I have children , the teachers will be well funded , I 'll have none of this BS about teachers paying for the kids with loser parents .
That 's what those parents are , because if you ca n't afford $ 5/month for pencils and paper then WTF are you doing ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and without a doubt they all hate it.
A couple have master's degrees and for that they get an extra $1000/per year.
They work practically all day into the evening grading papers, coming up with lesson plans, meeting with parents, etc.
One friend who stopped teaching just couldn't afford to do it anymore, because she was paying for her own teaching and students' school supplies out of her paycheck, which she said was around $1000 per year.
I know two other teachers who have quit as well, one saying how she ended up just being a babysitter to problem children.Good for them for selling their lesson plans!
I know if and when I have children, the teachers will be well funded, I'll have none of this BS about teachers paying for the kids with loser parents.
That's what those parents are, because if you can't afford $5/month for pencils and paper then WTF are you doing?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112708</id>
	<title>I think the school owns it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258402500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>If I'm paid to write software for a company I can't also resell the source code outside of work for my personal gain.  I assume the same logic would apply teachers and lesson plans although I guess it depends on the employment contract.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If I 'm paid to write software for a company I ca n't also resell the source code outside of work for my personal gain .
I assume the same logic would apply teachers and lesson plans although I guess it depends on the employment contract .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I'm paid to write software for a company I can't also resell the source code outside of work for my personal gain.
I assume the same logic would apply teachers and lesson plans although I guess it depends on the employment contract.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112868</id>
	<title>Re:US Copyright laws</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258404840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wanna back that up with a source?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wan na back that up with a source ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wanna back that up with a source?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30115992</id>
	<title>Re:Not true</title>
	<author>Oztun</author>
	<datestamp>1258390020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well wouldn't this assume the teacher was on the clock or at work creating these lesson plans?  When I worked at IBM I wrote a database system and I did it on my own time at home and let them use it.  When I left I took it with me and my boss said hey that is intellectual property.  I told him I did not write this at work I wrote it at night at my house therefore it is my property.  Most teachers I know work on lesson plans during the summer at home.  In most cases I'm sure they could claim to have and put the burden of proof on the school.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well would n't this assume the teacher was on the clock or at work creating these lesson plans ?
When I worked at IBM I wrote a database system and I did it on my own time at home and let them use it .
When I left I took it with me and my boss said hey that is intellectual property .
I told him I did not write this at work I wrote it at night at my house therefore it is my property .
Most teachers I know work on lesson plans during the summer at home .
In most cases I 'm sure they could claim to have and put the burden of proof on the school .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well wouldn't this assume the teacher was on the clock or at work creating these lesson plans?
When I worked at IBM I wrote a database system and I did it on my own time at home and let them use it.
When I left I took it with me and my boss said hey that is intellectual property.
I told him I did not write this at work I wrote it at night at my house therefore it is my property.
Most teachers I know work on lesson plans during the summer at home.
In most cases I'm sure they could claim to have and put the burden of proof on the school.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30114168</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30116370</id>
	<title>Test time</title>
	<author>bugs2squash</author>
	<datestamp>1258391640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why not take two similar school districts, and at one encourage the teachers to make and sell lesson plans for their own profit, and at the other make it plain that any lesson plans are the property of the school and that any documented lesson plans be turned over to the school (so that they can distribute or sell them as they see fit). a few years later, audit the school systems and determine which has the better lesson plans. The system that has yielded the best results for the students should be adopted state-wide.<p>Perhaps the new fad for principals will be to build and control the best possible portfolio of lesson plan IP.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why not take two similar school districts , and at one encourage the teachers to make and sell lesson plans for their own profit , and at the other make it plain that any lesson plans are the property of the school and that any documented lesson plans be turned over to the school ( so that they can distribute or sell them as they see fit ) .
a few years later , audit the school systems and determine which has the better lesson plans .
The system that has yielded the best results for the students should be adopted state-wide.Perhaps the new fad for principals will be to build and control the best possible portfolio of lesson plan IP .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why not take two similar school districts, and at one encourage the teachers to make and sell lesson plans for their own profit, and at the other make it plain that any lesson plans are the property of the school and that any documented lesson plans be turned over to the school (so that they can distribute or sell them as they see fit).
a few years later, audit the school systems and determine which has the better lesson plans.
The system that has yielded the best results for the students should be adopted state-wide.Perhaps the new fad for principals will be to build and control the best possible portfolio of lesson plan IP.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30133598</id>
	<title>Would something like this seriously save time?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258491480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Would something like this seriously save time? I mean, your searching all of these teacher based sites for lesson plans, quizzes, tests, ext. to actually find one that fits the current needs of your classroom.  I&rsquo;m sure more often than not, you buy one of these items only to find out it does not fit your lesson plan or it&rsquo;s of poor quality, so you have to change it anyhow or continue your search over and over again.</p><p>The time you spend searching and/or trying to sell your own lesson plans, quizzes, tests, ext. could be used to write something of quality that is directly related to what &ldquo;type&rdquo; of students you have and unit topic you are educating.  Not only that, it will re-enforce your knowledge and teach-ability of the subject at hand!  I for one, found helping &amp; tutoring others, along with writing reports &amp; tutorials a remarkable way to become a subject matter expert.</p><p>My biggest fear with something like this is that it encourages lazy individuals to download a lesson plan and simply wing it without being subject matter experts &ndash; some better than others.  I had a couple in grade school, undergrad, and grad.  I honestly walked away not learning much in those cases, except for off topic things I was interested in.</p><p>I believe in paying what people are worth, and I&rsquo;m not trying to down play the work involved because I know it can be a time consuming burden, especially for new teachers, or teachers teaching a new subject.  But before you take shortcuts, you have to ask yourself &ldquo;what type of teacher do you want to be?&rdquo;</p><p>Random side thoughts:<br>I would be surprised if these teachers make much money on these sites.  If there was a strong market for it, a corporation would have been spun off to fit the niche &ndash; then again, isn&rsquo;t&rsquo; that what the teacher&rsquo;s edition textbooks are for?</p><p>Maybe a wiki could be used to take and merge and/or collect the best lesson plans and activities? So instead of teachers paying other teachers, it would be teachers helping other teachers.</p><p>I keep reminding my teach friends that bubble sheets are your friend!  If it takes forever to run them through the machine, do what my Earth Science teacher did, hole punch one as the answer key, and overlap it onto a student&rsquo;s bubble sheet.</p><p>Math teachers should not collect and grade individual homework.  My pre-calc teacher had a problem on the overhead every morning that we worked on while he walked around making sure our homework solutions looked reasonable and giving us points for it.  When he was done, we would go over the homework answers and a few selected homework solutions before he taught new material.  This forced us to review our homework and make corrections while it was fresh in our mind - which was very effective.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Would something like this seriously save time ?
I mean , your searching all of these teacher based sites for lesson plans , quizzes , tests , ext .
to actually find one that fits the current needs of your classroom .
I    m sure more often than not , you buy one of these items only to find out it does not fit your lesson plan or it    s of poor quality , so you have to change it anyhow or continue your search over and over again.The time you spend searching and/or trying to sell your own lesson plans , quizzes , tests , ext .
could be used to write something of quality that is directly related to what    type    of students you have and unit topic you are educating .
Not only that , it will re-enforce your knowledge and teach-ability of the subject at hand !
I for one , found helping &amp; tutoring others , along with writing reports &amp; tutorials a remarkable way to become a subject matter expert.My biggest fear with something like this is that it encourages lazy individuals to download a lesson plan and simply wing it without being subject matter experts    some better than others .
I had a couple in grade school , undergrad , and grad .
I honestly walked away not learning much in those cases , except for off topic things I was interested in.I believe in paying what people are worth , and I    m not trying to down play the work involved because I know it can be a time consuming burden , especially for new teachers , or teachers teaching a new subject .
But before you take shortcuts , you have to ask yourself    what type of teacher do you want to be ?    Random side thoughts : I would be surprised if these teachers make much money on these sites .
If there was a strong market for it , a corporation would have been spun off to fit the niche    then again , isn    t    that what the teacher    s edition textbooks are for ? Maybe a wiki could be used to take and merge and/or collect the best lesson plans and activities ?
So instead of teachers paying other teachers , it would be teachers helping other teachers.I keep reminding my teach friends that bubble sheets are your friend !
If it takes forever to run them through the machine , do what my Earth Science teacher did , hole punch one as the answer key , and overlap it onto a student    s bubble sheet.Math teachers should not collect and grade individual homework .
My pre-calc teacher had a problem on the overhead every morning that we worked on while he walked around making sure our homework solutions looked reasonable and giving us points for it .
When he was done , we would go over the homework answers and a few selected homework solutions before he taught new material .
This forced us to review our homework and make corrections while it was fresh in our mind - which was very effective .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Would something like this seriously save time?
I mean, your searching all of these teacher based sites for lesson plans, quizzes, tests, ext.
to actually find one that fits the current needs of your classroom.
I’m sure more often than not, you buy one of these items only to find out it does not fit your lesson plan or it’s of poor quality, so you have to change it anyhow or continue your search over and over again.The time you spend searching and/or trying to sell your own lesson plans, quizzes, tests, ext.
could be used to write something of quality that is directly related to what “type” of students you have and unit topic you are educating.
Not only that, it will re-enforce your knowledge and teach-ability of the subject at hand!
I for one, found helping &amp; tutoring others, along with writing reports &amp; tutorials a remarkable way to become a subject matter expert.My biggest fear with something like this is that it encourages lazy individuals to download a lesson plan and simply wing it without being subject matter experts – some better than others.
I had a couple in grade school, undergrad, and grad.
I honestly walked away not learning much in those cases, except for off topic things I was interested in.I believe in paying what people are worth, and I’m not trying to down play the work involved because I know it can be a time consuming burden, especially for new teachers, or teachers teaching a new subject.
But before you take shortcuts, you have to ask yourself “what type of teacher do you want to be?”Random side thoughts:I would be surprised if these teachers make much money on these sites.
If there was a strong market for it, a corporation would have been spun off to fit the niche – then again, isn’t’ that what the teacher’s edition textbooks are for?Maybe a wiki could be used to take and merge and/or collect the best lesson plans and activities?
So instead of teachers paying other teachers, it would be teachers helping other teachers.I keep reminding my teach friends that bubble sheets are your friend!
If it takes forever to run them through the machine, do what my Earth Science teacher did, hole punch one as the answer key, and overlap it onto a student’s bubble sheet.Math teachers should not collect and grade individual homework.
My pre-calc teacher had a problem on the overhead every morning that we worked on while he walked around making sure our homework solutions looked reasonable and giving us points for it.
When he was done, we would go over the homework answers and a few selected homework solutions before he taught new material.
This forced us to review our homework and make corrections while it was fresh in our mind - which was very effective.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113620</id>
	<title>Re:What questions?</title>
	<author>Registered Coward v2</author>
	<datestamp>1258372320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>I fail to see how this raises any questions too. The schools pay the teachers, the lesson plans belong to the school.</p></div><p>Unless the employment contract explicitly transfers ownership of creative works to the employer then the lesson plans legally do not belong to the school.  In the world of copyrights and contracts this stuff is cut and dry, the default in all cases  - including software development - is for ownership to rest with the creator, full stop.</p></div><p>See: "Work for Hire"</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I fail to see how this raises any questions too .
The schools pay the teachers , the lesson plans belong to the school.Unless the employment contract explicitly transfers ownership of creative works to the employer then the lesson plans legally do not belong to the school .
In the world of copyrights and contracts this stuff is cut and dry , the default in all cases - including software development - is for ownership to rest with the creator , full stop.See : " Work for Hire "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I fail to see how this raises any questions too.
The schools pay the teachers, the lesson plans belong to the school.Unless the employment contract explicitly transfers ownership of creative works to the employer then the lesson plans legally do not belong to the school.
In the world of copyrights and contracts this stuff is cut and dry, the default in all cases  - including software development - is for ownership to rest with the creator, full stop.See: "Work for Hire"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112918</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112966</id>
	<title>KILL THE TEACHER'S UNIONS</title>
	<author>wisebabo</author>
	<datestamp>1258362960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Second (maybe) only to the dysfunctional health care system in America is the terrible state of its primary and secondary school systems.  We spend far more than Asian (and European? I don't know) countries on education and get results that are the embarrassment of the world.</p><p>Why?  One reason is undoubtedly America's anti-intellectual climate (rock stars not rocket scientists get laid).  This is something that may only change after China demonstrates in a big way how they might dominate the 21 century (like Sputnik).  The other reason is the TEACHER'S UNIONS.  The stranglehold they have against reform and removing incompetent teachers is legendary, I won't even bother going into how hard it is to fire a teacher in most places.  The importance of good teachers towards improving scores is well documented; a recent studied said if the top 25\% of teachers were working in the worst schools the racial test score gap would vanish.</p><p>Once upon a time, the unions performed a useful function by preventing arbitrary firings of teachers on a principal's whim.  Now the pendulum has swung far far the other away; the unions, the political power they represent and the money they spend are the single largest factor denying a good education to America's kids.  If America wants to have a fighting chance of not giving up its leadership role in the world this is a problem that MUST be solved.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Second ( maybe ) only to the dysfunctional health care system in America is the terrible state of its primary and secondary school systems .
We spend far more than Asian ( and European ?
I do n't know ) countries on education and get results that are the embarrassment of the world.Why ?
One reason is undoubtedly America 's anti-intellectual climate ( rock stars not rocket scientists get laid ) .
This is something that may only change after China demonstrates in a big way how they might dominate the 21 century ( like Sputnik ) .
The other reason is the TEACHER 'S UNIONS .
The stranglehold they have against reform and removing incompetent teachers is legendary , I wo n't even bother going into how hard it is to fire a teacher in most places .
The importance of good teachers towards improving scores is well documented ; a recent studied said if the top 25 \ % of teachers were working in the worst schools the racial test score gap would vanish.Once upon a time , the unions performed a useful function by preventing arbitrary firings of teachers on a principal 's whim .
Now the pendulum has swung far far the other away ; the unions , the political power they represent and the money they spend are the single largest factor denying a good education to America 's kids .
If America wants to have a fighting chance of not giving up its leadership role in the world this is a problem that MUST be solved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Second (maybe) only to the dysfunctional health care system in America is the terrible state of its primary and secondary school systems.
We spend far more than Asian (and European?
I don't know) countries on education and get results that are the embarrassment of the world.Why?
One reason is undoubtedly America's anti-intellectual climate (rock stars not rocket scientists get laid).
This is something that may only change after China demonstrates in a big way how they might dominate the 21 century (like Sputnik).
The other reason is the TEACHER'S UNIONS.
The stranglehold they have against reform and removing incompetent teachers is legendary, I won't even bother going into how hard it is to fire a teacher in most places.
The importance of good teachers towards improving scores is well documented; a recent studied said if the top 25\% of teachers were working in the worst schools the racial test score gap would vanish.Once upon a time, the unions performed a useful function by preventing arbitrary firings of teachers on a principal's whim.
Now the pendulum has swung far far the other away; the unions, the political power they represent and the money they spend are the single largest factor denying a good education to America's kids.
If America wants to have a fighting chance of not giving up its leadership role in the world this is a problem that MUST be solved.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30114274</id>
	<title>And when they own a significant portion ...</title>
	<author>wisnoskij</author>
	<datestamp>1258380000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And when they own a significant portion of all good lesson plans do they jack up the price and start suing teachers using lesson plans that are similar to theirs?</htmltext>
<tokenext>And when they own a significant portion of all good lesson plans do they jack up the price and start suing teachers using lesson plans that are similar to theirs ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And when they own a significant portion of all good lesson plans do they jack up the price and start suing teachers using lesson plans that are similar to theirs?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30117814</id>
	<title>Re:What questions?</title>
	<author>Sandbags</author>
	<datestamp>1258396980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, the lesson plans my wife writes are not only compulsory, she has manditory levels of effort and content to produce, and she's required to share that material with a group inclusive of 8 teachers in her area (who each also produce and share material).  They meet WEEKLY distributing tasks, and all the material is submitted to the school and is reused/reworked by later groups of teachers.  They're living documents that have to be contantly adjusted over time to account for changes in curriculum requirements, new textbooks, new classroom tools, and new teaching methods.  This material is MANDITORY, and failure to produce lesson material is met with disciplinary action.  Teachers are expressly forbidden from working on this material during school hours except for a 30 minute time frame (which is actually the only 30 minutes each day they are not expressly watching or teaching children, so we're actually filing suit in the state to see how the labor board reacts to the fact they legally are not getting a "30 minute break" where no work is required).</p><p>My wife gets to school at 6:30AM daily.  She leaves at 4PM 3 days a week, 5PM 1 day (teacher deperment meeting) and not until 6PM another (she was appointed, involkuntarily, to run a comitte, for which she is not paid extra).  This is in addition to 4-6 "meet the teacher" nights, and the district requirement that she allways meet with parents on the PARENT'S schedule (often before 6:30AM or after 5PM).  Then she;s doing 1-2 hours of gradework per night (inclouding saturday and sunday just to keep up), and another 4-5 hours of lesson planning weekly, and she works several hours per day through each vacation period playing catch up, and then 100-150 hours during the summer (9 weeks), and that does not include her MADITORY continued education (at her expense) of 9 semester hours every 5 years, and the 500-600 hours she put into national teacher certification, and all of the addirtional lectures and meetings she's required to attend.</p><p>Last year, we booked it out to 55 hours per week, averaged across the 52 weeks.  (some weeks more, durring the summer less).  She is completely incapable of working a summer or part tyime job outside of school due to district policies and mandates.</p><p>Since the district sees her material production as a clear component of her employment, with mandated deliverables, selling that work to other teachers is explressly forbidden in her teaching contract, and teachers can be penalized or terminated (including the publisahing of certain state mandated materials for which it is actually against the law for a non-educator to have access to for any reason, including defined fines and improsonment!)</p><p>ANYTHING you dor create "in the course of performing the duties of your job" is considered IP belonging to your employer, which in my wife's case is the local school district.</p><p>They strictly control what information is distributed.  As it would make sense to distribute information to other teachers to make the work easier, it is equally or even more so in the district's interest (and the state's) to keep that information private, as a lesson plan can easily be interrogated to determine the quality of education a student is receiving.  If the public could review lesson plans directly, they likely would not approve...  or worse, government agencies and lobyists would get into the state's business (this happened with the PACT testing system, and is a key reason the state abandoned it).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , the lesson plans my wife writes are not only compulsory , she has manditory levels of effort and content to produce , and she 's required to share that material with a group inclusive of 8 teachers in her area ( who each also produce and share material ) .
They meet WEEKLY distributing tasks , and all the material is submitted to the school and is reused/reworked by later groups of teachers .
They 're living documents that have to be contantly adjusted over time to account for changes in curriculum requirements , new textbooks , new classroom tools , and new teaching methods .
This material is MANDITORY , and failure to produce lesson material is met with disciplinary action .
Teachers are expressly forbidden from working on this material during school hours except for a 30 minute time frame ( which is actually the only 30 minutes each day they are not expressly watching or teaching children , so we 're actually filing suit in the state to see how the labor board reacts to the fact they legally are not getting a " 30 minute break " where no work is required ) .My wife gets to school at 6 : 30AM daily .
She leaves at 4PM 3 days a week , 5PM 1 day ( teacher deperment meeting ) and not until 6PM another ( she was appointed , involkuntarily , to run a comitte , for which she is not paid extra ) .
This is in addition to 4-6 " meet the teacher " nights , and the district requirement that she allways meet with parents on the PARENT 'S schedule ( often before 6 : 30AM or after 5PM ) .
Then she ; s doing 1-2 hours of gradework per night ( inclouding saturday and sunday just to keep up ) , and another 4-5 hours of lesson planning weekly , and she works several hours per day through each vacation period playing catch up , and then 100-150 hours during the summer ( 9 weeks ) , and that does not include her MADITORY continued education ( at her expense ) of 9 semester hours every 5 years , and the 500-600 hours she put into national teacher certification , and all of the addirtional lectures and meetings she 's required to attend.Last year , we booked it out to 55 hours per week , averaged across the 52 weeks .
( some weeks more , durring the summer less ) .
She is completely incapable of working a summer or part tyime job outside of school due to district policies and mandates.Since the district sees her material production as a clear component of her employment , with mandated deliverables , selling that work to other teachers is explressly forbidden in her teaching contract , and teachers can be penalized or terminated ( including the publisahing of certain state mandated materials for which it is actually against the law for a non-educator to have access to for any reason , including defined fines and improsonment !
) ANYTHING you dor create " in the course of performing the duties of your job " is considered IP belonging to your employer , which in my wife 's case is the local school district.They strictly control what information is distributed .
As it would make sense to distribute information to other teachers to make the work easier , it is equally or even more so in the district 's interest ( and the state 's ) to keep that information private , as a lesson plan can easily be interrogated to determine the quality of education a student is receiving .
If the public could review lesson plans directly , they likely would not approve... or worse , government agencies and lobyists would get into the state 's business ( this happened with the PACT testing system , and is a key reason the state abandoned it ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, the lesson plans my wife writes are not only compulsory, she has manditory levels of effort and content to produce, and she's required to share that material with a group inclusive of 8 teachers in her area (who each also produce and share material).
They meet WEEKLY distributing tasks, and all the material is submitted to the school and is reused/reworked by later groups of teachers.
They're living documents that have to be contantly adjusted over time to account for changes in curriculum requirements, new textbooks, new classroom tools, and new teaching methods.
This material is MANDITORY, and failure to produce lesson material is met with disciplinary action.
Teachers are expressly forbidden from working on this material during school hours except for a 30 minute time frame (which is actually the only 30 minutes each day they are not expressly watching or teaching children, so we're actually filing suit in the state to see how the labor board reacts to the fact they legally are not getting a "30 minute break" where no work is required).My wife gets to school at 6:30AM daily.
She leaves at 4PM 3 days a week, 5PM 1 day (teacher deperment meeting) and not until 6PM another (she was appointed, involkuntarily, to run a comitte, for which she is not paid extra).
This is in addition to 4-6 "meet the teacher" nights, and the district requirement that she allways meet with parents on the PARENT'S schedule (often before 6:30AM or after 5PM).
Then she;s doing 1-2 hours of gradework per night (inclouding saturday and sunday just to keep up), and another 4-5 hours of lesson planning weekly, and she works several hours per day through each vacation period playing catch up, and then 100-150 hours during the summer (9 weeks), and that does not include her MADITORY continued education (at her expense) of 9 semester hours every 5 years, and the 500-600 hours she put into national teacher certification, and all of the addirtional lectures and meetings she's required to attend.Last year, we booked it out to 55 hours per week, averaged across the 52 weeks.
(some weeks more, durring the summer less).
She is completely incapable of working a summer or part tyime job outside of school due to district policies and mandates.Since the district sees her material production as a clear component of her employment, with mandated deliverables, selling that work to other teachers is explressly forbidden in her teaching contract, and teachers can be penalized or terminated (including the publisahing of certain state mandated materials for which it is actually against the law for a non-educator to have access to for any reason, including defined fines and improsonment!
)ANYTHING you dor create "in the course of performing the duties of your job" is considered IP belonging to your employer, which in my wife's case is the local school district.They strictly control what information is distributed.
As it would make sense to distribute information to other teachers to make the work easier, it is equally or even more so in the district's interest (and the state's) to keep that information private, as a lesson plan can easily be interrogated to determine the quality of education a student is receiving.
If the public could review lesson plans directly, they likely would not approve...  or worse, government agencies and lobyists would get into the state's business (this happened with the PACT testing system, and is a key reason the state abandoned it).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112706</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30115672</id>
	<title>Many of these replies are shocking...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258388460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>(Disclaimer:  I have a Bachelor's in History with a focus in Secondary Education 6-12.)</p><p>Lesson plans are vastly to customized to lay a blanket statement that they are being "sold."  What is most likely being bought is ideas for activities for certain topics.</p><p>For my first semester of student teaching I had to teach 9th grade Regents Review and Inclusion.  The number of nights where I spent staying up until 1-2am trying to customize the lesson plan for each individual student was absolutely INSANE.  No cut/copy/paste lesson plan that I could buy online would adhere to the number of different IEP's I needed to follow.</p><p>Some topics are just to difficult to come up with a solid activity that is engaging and thought provoking.  The ancient river valleys, as an example, became repetitive, boring and students began to lose interest.  Try teaching the "8 Features of a Civilization" to ADD, ADHD, students with broken homes during first period on a Monday.</p><p>So if I spent 10-15 bucks on a lesson that might be a good engaging activity then so be it.  I won't be handing the receipt for my purchase into my coordinator asking for reimbursement.</p><p>Teachers don't get to work with databases or hardware.  125 students on a given day, vary personalities and requirements will break down a person.  Having to walk the line between B.S. state standards and what you know is good quality education in your own gut will drive a person wild.</p><p>I know it did it to me...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>( Disclaimer : I have a Bachelor 's in History with a focus in Secondary Education 6-12 .
) Lesson plans are vastly to customized to lay a blanket statement that they are being " sold .
" What is most likely being bought is ideas for activities for certain topics.For my first semester of student teaching I had to teach 9th grade Regents Review and Inclusion .
The number of nights where I spent staying up until 1-2am trying to customize the lesson plan for each individual student was absolutely INSANE .
No cut/copy/paste lesson plan that I could buy online would adhere to the number of different IEP 's I needed to follow.Some topics are just to difficult to come up with a solid activity that is engaging and thought provoking .
The ancient river valleys , as an example , became repetitive , boring and students began to lose interest .
Try teaching the " 8 Features of a Civilization " to ADD , ADHD , students with broken homes during first period on a Monday.So if I spent 10-15 bucks on a lesson that might be a good engaging activity then so be it .
I wo n't be handing the receipt for my purchase into my coordinator asking for reimbursement.Teachers do n't get to work with databases or hardware .
125 students on a given day , vary personalities and requirements will break down a person .
Having to walk the line between B.S .
state standards and what you know is good quality education in your own gut will drive a person wild.I know it did it to me.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>(Disclaimer:  I have a Bachelor's in History with a focus in Secondary Education 6-12.
)Lesson plans are vastly to customized to lay a blanket statement that they are being "sold.
"  What is most likely being bought is ideas for activities for certain topics.For my first semester of student teaching I had to teach 9th grade Regents Review and Inclusion.
The number of nights where I spent staying up until 1-2am trying to customize the lesson plan for each individual student was absolutely INSANE.
No cut/copy/paste lesson plan that I could buy online would adhere to the number of different IEP's I needed to follow.Some topics are just to difficult to come up with a solid activity that is engaging and thought provoking.
The ancient river valleys, as an example, became repetitive, boring and students began to lose interest.
Try teaching the "8 Features of a Civilization" to ADD, ADHD, students with broken homes during first period on a Monday.So if I spent 10-15 bucks on a lesson that might be a good engaging activity then so be it.
I won't be handing the receipt for my purchase into my coordinator asking for reimbursement.Teachers don't get to work with databases or hardware.
125 students on a given day, vary personalities and requirements will break down a person.
Having to walk the line between B.S.
state standards and what you know is good quality education in your own gut will drive a person wild.I know it did it to me...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113216</id>
	<title>for you</title>
	<author>lorry123</author>
	<datestamp>1258366320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>WOWOWOWOWO.do you want to    f   uck supper Mama like her (with lots of money but be alone)
OK OK.give you a chance  "Matchcougar.com"....
BE FREE.Catch your chance</htmltext>
<tokenext>WOWOWOWOWO.do you want to f uck supper Mama like her ( with lots of money but be alone ) OK OK.give you a chance " Matchcougar.com " ... . BE FREE.Catch your chance</tokentext>
<sentencetext>WOWOWOWOWO.do you want to    f   uck supper Mama like her (with lots of money but be alone)
OK OK.give you a chance  "Matchcougar.com"....
BE FREE.Catch your chance</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30126598</id>
	<title>Re:US Copyright laws</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258488900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Lesson plans meet the definition of "work for hire" under US copyright laws and as such are owned by the school system or municipality unless there are express agreements giving the rights to the teachers.</i> </p><p>And your law degree came from which cereal box? You seem pretty cocksure of yourself for someone without a J.D.</p><p>Provide a pertinent citation from the law or display your credentials.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lesson plans meet the definition of " work for hire " under US copyright laws and as such are owned by the school system or municipality unless there are express agreements giving the rights to the teachers .
And your law degree came from which cereal box ?
You seem pretty cocksure of yourself for someone without a J.D.Provide a pertinent citation from the law or display your credentials .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lesson plans meet the definition of "work for hire" under US copyright laws and as such are owned by the school system or municipality unless there are express agreements giving the rights to the teachers.
And your law degree came from which cereal box?
You seem pretty cocksure of yourself for someone without a J.D.Provide a pertinent citation from the law or display your credentials.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30112748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113298</id>
	<title>Fucking bullshit</title>
	<author>oldhack</author>
	<datestamp>1258367460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'd rather have the teachers teach our kids better and get fat, I mean FAT, bonuses, rather than peddling lesson plans for extra cash.  The shit is seriously outta whack.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd rather have the teachers teach our kids better and get fat , I mean FAT , bonuses , rather than peddling lesson plans for extra cash .
The shit is seriously outta whack .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd rather have the teachers teach our kids better and get fat, I mean FAT, bonuses, rather than peddling lesson plans for extra cash.
The shit is seriously outta whack.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30121982</id>
	<title>Let 'em sell the plans</title>
	<author>Squeedle</author>
	<datestamp>1258367760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As the daughter of a long time, now retired public school teacher and who has friends who are currently public school teachers, I'll chime in with supporting teachers to sell their plans and keep the money.</p><p>I'll also corroborate all the people saying that teachers make these lesson plans outside of class, at home.  They also do all their grading at home, including over holidays and school breaks.  They start school 1 week or more before all the students.   Most teachers I know pay for  a significant portion of non-textbook classroom supplies OUT OF THEIR OWN POCKETS.</p><p>Teachers may have summers off - at least, ones who don't teach in year-round districts - but what they often do with that time is get a part time job so they can make up for the crappy pay they get.</p><p>Frankly, I find it appalling that we do not consider teaching a true profession, yet we make teachers go through a long certification process before we let them in the public schools to do often thankless work for crap pay and shoddy treatment.   I am one of those people who adores teaching and is good at it, but I've seen what the public school system does to people, and the pay won't even come close to covering my living expenses.  No thank you.</p><p>So let them sell the lesson plans.   If it gives teachers more time with their families and a little more spending money, they deserve it, and so do their families.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As the daughter of a long time , now retired public school teacher and who has friends who are currently public school teachers , I 'll chime in with supporting teachers to sell their plans and keep the money.I 'll also corroborate all the people saying that teachers make these lesson plans outside of class , at home .
They also do all their grading at home , including over holidays and school breaks .
They start school 1 week or more before all the students .
Most teachers I know pay for a significant portion of non-textbook classroom supplies OUT OF THEIR OWN POCKETS.Teachers may have summers off - at least , ones who do n't teach in year-round districts - but what they often do with that time is get a part time job so they can make up for the crappy pay they get.Frankly , I find it appalling that we do not consider teaching a true profession , yet we make teachers go through a long certification process before we let them in the public schools to do often thankless work for crap pay and shoddy treatment .
I am one of those people who adores teaching and is good at it , but I 've seen what the public school system does to people , and the pay wo n't even come close to covering my living expenses .
No thank you.So let them sell the lesson plans .
If it gives teachers more time with their families and a little more spending money , they deserve it , and so do their families .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As the daughter of a long time, now retired public school teacher and who has friends who are currently public school teachers, I'll chime in with supporting teachers to sell their plans and keep the money.I'll also corroborate all the people saying that teachers make these lesson plans outside of class, at home.
They also do all their grading at home, including over holidays and school breaks.
They start school 1 week or more before all the students.
Most teachers I know pay for  a significant portion of non-textbook classroom supplies OUT OF THEIR OWN POCKETS.Teachers may have summers off - at least, ones who don't teach in year-round districts - but what they often do with that time is get a part time job so they can make up for the crappy pay they get.Frankly, I find it appalling that we do not consider teaching a true profession, yet we make teachers go through a long certification process before we let them in the public schools to do often thankless work for crap pay and shoddy treatment.
I am one of those people who adores teaching and is good at it, but I've seen what the public school system does to people, and the pay won't even come close to covering my living expenses.
No thank you.So let them sell the lesson plans.
If it gives teachers more time with their families and a little more spending money, they deserve it, and so do their families.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113746</id>
	<title>Great Idea</title>
	<author>coaxial</author>
	<datestamp>1258374360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is a great idea.  The only thing I would add to it would be to open up the creation / modification of these plans a bit more.  Like putting these lesson plans on some sort of wiki or something.  Available lesson plans with optional elements for differing abilities (e.g. remedial history versus normal history versus AP history) would be a great compliment to something like <a href="http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/web/home/home/index.htm" title="mit.edu">OpenCourseWare</a> [mit.edu].  (Granted OCW is college material, but basic idea remains the same.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a great idea .
The only thing I would add to it would be to open up the creation / modification of these plans a bit more .
Like putting these lesson plans on some sort of wiki or something .
Available lesson plans with optional elements for differing abilities ( e.g .
remedial history versus normal history versus AP history ) would be a great compliment to something like OpenCourseWare [ mit.edu ] .
( Granted OCW is college material , but basic idea remains the same .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a great idea.
The only thing I would add to it would be to open up the creation / modification of these plans a bit more.
Like putting these lesson plans on some sort of wiki or something.
Available lesson plans with optional elements for differing abilities (e.g.
remedial history versus normal history versus AP history) would be a great compliment to something like OpenCourseWare [mit.edu].
(Granted OCW is college material, but basic idea remains the same.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_222211.30113896</id>
	<title>Buying chapters instead of books - nothing new...</title>
	<author>Atraxen</author>
	<datestamp>1258376040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The only story here is that people are selling small works instead of big ones.  And that fits the overall model we've seen in the last 15 years online.  Buy a single instead of a CD.  Buy a single key to replace one on a broken laptop keyboard (instead of a replacement.)</p><p>Well, now they're selling individual lesson plans, instead of an entire book of them.</p><p>Proof of these lesson plans available as books:  <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Earth-Science-Success-Lesson-Grades/dp/1933531355/ref=sr\_1\_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1258372050&amp;sr=8-1" title="amazon.com">http://www.amazon.com/Earth-Science-Success-Lesson-Grades/dp/1933531355/ref=sr\_1\_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1258372050&amp;sr=8-1</a> [amazon.com]<br><a href="http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb\_ss?url=search-alias\%3Daps&amp;field-keywords=science+lesson+plans&amp;x=0&amp;y=0" title="amazon.com">http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb\_ss?url=search-alias\%3Daps&amp;field-keywords=science+lesson+plans&amp;x=0&amp;y=0</a> [amazon.com]</p><p>And these are only ones new enough to be on Amazon.  I'm not in my office and don't feel like tunneling there to search WorldCat, but publishing lesson plans isn't new at all, and quite arguably is part of the scholarship of teaching.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The only story here is that people are selling small works instead of big ones .
And that fits the overall model we 've seen in the last 15 years online .
Buy a single instead of a CD .
Buy a single key to replace one on a broken laptop keyboard ( instead of a replacement .
) Well , now they 're selling individual lesson plans , instead of an entire book of them.Proof of these lesson plans available as books : http : //www.amazon.com/Earth-Science-Success-Lesson-Grades/dp/1933531355/ref = sr \ _1 \ _1 ? ie = UTF8&amp;s = books&amp;qid = 1258372050&amp;sr = 8-1 [ amazon.com ] http : //www.amazon.com/s/ref = nb \ _ss ? url = search-alias \ % 3Daps&amp;field-keywords = science + lesson + plans&amp;x = 0&amp;y = 0 [ amazon.com ] And these are only ones new enough to be on Amazon .
I 'm not in my office and do n't feel like tunneling there to search WorldCat , but publishing lesson plans is n't new at all , and quite arguably is part of the scholarship of teaching .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only story here is that people are selling small works instead of big ones.
And that fits the overall model we've seen in the last 15 years online.
Buy a single instead of a CD.
Buy a single key to replace one on a broken laptop keyboard (instead of a replacement.
)Well, now they're selling individual lesson plans, instead of an entire book of them.Proof of these lesson plans available as books:  http://www.amazon.com/Earth-Science-Success-Lesson-Grades/dp/1933531355/ref=sr\_1\_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1258372050&amp;sr=8-1 [amazon.com]http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb\_ss?url=search-alias\%3Daps&amp;field-keywords=science+lesson+plans&amp;x=0&amp;y=0 [amazon.com]And these are only ones new enough to be on Amazon.
I'm not in my office and don't feel like tunneling there to search WorldCat, but publishing lesson plans isn't new at all, and quite arguably is part of the scholarship of teaching.</sentencetext>
</comment>
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