<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_11_12_1633229</id>
	<title>Easing the Job of Family Tech Support?</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1258045800000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>DarkDevil writes <i>"Ever since I was introduced to computers at a very young age, I've been the resident tech support for a household of 7 users. I've been in a cycle for the last ~8 years where something happens to my parents' computer, I spend a week or two trying to non-destructively fix the problem (and try to explain to the users what caused it and how to avoid it), and then if it's not easily fixed I'll reformat and start from scratch. Most often, the level of infection warrants a reformat, which usually ends up taking even more time to get the computer back to how my parents know how to use it. 4-8 months later, it happens again. Recently, I found ~380 instances of malware and 6 viruses. I only realized something was wrong with their computer after it slowed down the entire network whenever anyone used it. My question for Slashdot is: are there any resources out there that explain computer viruses, malware, adware, and general safe computer practices to non-technical people in an easy-to-digest format? The security flaws in my house are 9, 26, and ~50 years old, with no technical background aside from surfing the internet. Something in video format would be ideal as they are perfectly happy with our current arrangement and so it'll be hard to get them reading pages and pages of technical papers."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>DarkDevil writes " Ever since I was introduced to computers at a very young age , I 've been the resident tech support for a household of 7 users .
I 've been in a cycle for the last ~ 8 years where something happens to my parents ' computer , I spend a week or two trying to non-destructively fix the problem ( and try to explain to the users what caused it and how to avoid it ) , and then if it 's not easily fixed I 'll reformat and start from scratch .
Most often , the level of infection warrants a reformat , which usually ends up taking even more time to get the computer back to how my parents know how to use it .
4-8 months later , it happens again .
Recently , I found ~ 380 instances of malware and 6 viruses .
I only realized something was wrong with their computer after it slowed down the entire network whenever anyone used it .
My question for Slashdot is : are there any resources out there that explain computer viruses , malware , adware , and general safe computer practices to non-technical people in an easy-to-digest format ?
The security flaws in my house are 9 , 26 , and ~ 50 years old , with no technical background aside from surfing the internet .
Something in video format would be ideal as they are perfectly happy with our current arrangement and so it 'll be hard to get them reading pages and pages of technical papers .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>DarkDevil writes "Ever since I was introduced to computers at a very young age, I've been the resident tech support for a household of 7 users.
I've been in a cycle for the last ~8 years where something happens to my parents' computer, I spend a week or two trying to non-destructively fix the problem (and try to explain to the users what caused it and how to avoid it), and then if it's not easily fixed I'll reformat and start from scratch.
Most often, the level of infection warrants a reformat, which usually ends up taking even more time to get the computer back to how my parents know how to use it.
4-8 months later, it happens again.
Recently, I found ~380 instances of malware and 6 viruses.
I only realized something was wrong with their computer after it slowed down the entire network whenever anyone used it.
My question for Slashdot is: are there any resources out there that explain computer viruses, malware, adware, and general safe computer practices to non-technical people in an easy-to-digest format?
The security flaws in my house are 9, 26, and ~50 years old, with no technical background aside from surfing the internet.
Something in video format would be ideal as they are perfectly happy with our current arrangement and so it'll be hard to get them reading pages and pages of technical papers.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075078</id>
	<title>Re:The butterfly Parable</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258050540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Dude, what are you, like the Dalai Lama? Sweet</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dude , what are you , like the Dalai Lama ?
Sweet</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dude, what are you, like the Dalai Lama?
Sweet</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075242</id>
	<title>You are liable, you are in control!</title>
	<author>mcrbids</author>
	<datestamp>1258051020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd use mod points on PP but I don't want to. So I'll post instead.</p><p>You fix it, you don't get paid for it, you should restrict what they can do! Limited user accounts ONLY. Don't give out the Admin password. Set FF as default browser, set up antivirus/antimalware, and DON'T GIVE OUT THE KEYS.</p><p>Of course, the next question is (and let's be honest) are you in a position where your parents can ground you? If so, you might as well just suck it up and deal if you can't convince them that your plans are reasonable...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd use mod points on PP but I do n't want to .
So I 'll post instead.You fix it , you do n't get paid for it , you should restrict what they can do !
Limited user accounts ONLY .
Do n't give out the Admin password .
Set FF as default browser , set up antivirus/antimalware , and DO N'T GIVE OUT THE KEYS.Of course , the next question is ( and let 's be honest ) are you in a position where your parents can ground you ?
If so , you might as well just suck it up and deal if you ca n't convince them that your plans are reasonable.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd use mod points on PP but I don't want to.
So I'll post instead.You fix it, you don't get paid for it, you should restrict what they can do!
Limited user accounts ONLY.
Don't give out the Admin password.
Set FF as default browser, set up antivirus/antimalware, and DON'T GIVE OUT THE KEYS.Of course, the next question is (and let's be honest) are you in a position where your parents can ground you?
If so, you might as well just suck it up and deal if you can't convince them that your plans are reasonable...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30083882</id>
	<title>Linux</title>
	<author>jipn4</author>
	<datestamp>1258052040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Linux is the only choice as far as I'm concerned.  It's because installing and updating it is so much easier, and because it's hard to screw up.</p><p>Windows is the worst, being both a hassle to install apps on and keeping everything updated.  But the Mac isn't much better: you have to manually install all the apps, they keep popping up confusing "there's a new version available" dialogs, and then users screw up the system by doing something stupid anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Linux is the only choice as far as I 'm concerned .
It 's because installing and updating it is so much easier , and because it 's hard to screw up.Windows is the worst , being both a hassle to install apps on and keeping everything updated .
But the Mac is n't much better : you have to manually install all the apps , they keep popping up confusing " there 's a new version available " dialogs , and then users screw up the system by doing something stupid anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Linux is the only choice as far as I'm concerned.
It's because installing and updating it is so much easier, and because it's hard to screw up.Windows is the worst, being both a hassle to install apps on and keeping everything updated.
But the Mac isn't much better: you have to manually install all the apps, they keep popping up confusing "there's a new version available" dialogs, and then users screw up the system by doing something stupid anyway.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074674</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076776</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258055820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It gets her all riled up, stating she'll just buy a new computer - to which I reply I'll simply buy a new dog when mine gets hurt - or even a new girlfriend when mine is broken.</p></div><p>Sex with her must be super hot to put up with all that.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It gets her all riled up , stating she 'll just buy a new computer - to which I reply I 'll simply buy a new dog when mine gets hurt - or even a new girlfriend when mine is broken.Sex with her must be super hot to put up with all that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It gets her all riled up, stating she'll just buy a new computer - to which I reply I'll simply buy a new dog when mine gets hurt - or even a new girlfriend when mine is broken.Sex with her must be super hot to put up with all that.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30097586</id>
	<title>Re:Lock it down</title>
	<author>natxo asenjo</author>
	<datestamp>1258214760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They obviously do not know windows either<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..., otherwise they would not need his/her help. So your argument does not really stand.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They obviously do not know windows either ... , otherwise they would not need his/her help .
So your argument does not really stand .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They obviously do not know windows either ..., otherwise they would not need his/her help.
So your argument does not really stand.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074926</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30085466</id>
	<title>education won't help.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258119120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been going through the same situations, I've tried to educate, but anybody you help will always fall back into old habits.  At one point I even put blocks in the registry so that bittorrent couldn't be reinstalled.  I've even taught them how to use the safer solutions.  The only thing I can recommend is to make a Norton ghost or other image of their fully configured drive to make reloading that much easier.  Just boot a live cd, copy their documents and other data to an external, load the ghost image with all settings and apps preconfigured, then dump the data back to where they want it and run a windows update.  Takes less than an hour to do the whole thing when my relatives ask me for help.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been going through the same situations , I 've tried to educate , but anybody you help will always fall back into old habits .
At one point I even put blocks in the registry so that bittorrent could n't be reinstalled .
I 've even taught them how to use the safer solutions .
The only thing I can recommend is to make a Norton ghost or other image of their fully configured drive to make reloading that much easier .
Just boot a live cd , copy their documents and other data to an external , load the ghost image with all settings and apps preconfigured , then dump the data back to where they want it and run a windows update .
Takes less than an hour to do the whole thing when my relatives ask me for help .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been going through the same situations, I've tried to educate, but anybody you help will always fall back into old habits.
At one point I even put blocks in the registry so that bittorrent couldn't be reinstalled.
I've even taught them how to use the safer solutions.
The only thing I can recommend is to make a Norton ghost or other image of their fully configured drive to make reloading that much easier.
Just boot a live cd, copy their documents and other data to an external, load the ghost image with all settings and apps preconfigured, then dump the data back to where they want it and run a windows update.
Takes less than an hour to do the whole thing when my relatives ask me for help.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078306</id>
	<title>Had the same problem and solved it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258018080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Change them all to ubuntu.  No joke.  I did this with my dad because XP froze every 6 months, same for my uncle, same for my sister, brother, 3 brothers in law and a grandmother in law.  Only one of them is tech-savy, yet they all stopped calling me for tech support.  I called here and there just to make sure everything was working and it was.  They are all very happy.  Problem solved.</p><p>Yes they can't run windows apps, but the huge inconvenient of windows sucking so bad (viruses, anti-virus hammering the system, instability etc) was a worth while trade off.</p><p>My tech support load is 10x lighter with ubuntu than windows.  I am free now to do other things.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Change them all to ubuntu .
No joke .
I did this with my dad because XP froze every 6 months , same for my uncle , same for my sister , brother , 3 brothers in law and a grandmother in law .
Only one of them is tech-savy , yet they all stopped calling me for tech support .
I called here and there just to make sure everything was working and it was .
They are all very happy .
Problem solved.Yes they ca n't run windows apps , but the huge inconvenient of windows sucking so bad ( viruses , anti-virus hammering the system , instability etc ) was a worth while trade off.My tech support load is 10x lighter with ubuntu than windows .
I am free now to do other things .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Change them all to ubuntu.
No joke.
I did this with my dad because XP froze every 6 months, same for my uncle, same for my sister, brother, 3 brothers in law and a grandmother in law.
Only one of them is tech-savy, yet they all stopped calling me for tech support.
I called here and there just to make sure everything was working and it was.
They are all very happy.
Problem solved.Yes they can't run windows apps, but the huge inconvenient of windows sucking so bad (viruses, anti-virus hammering the system, instability etc) was a worth while trade off.My tech support load is 10x lighter with ubuntu than windows.
I am free now to do other things.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077920</id>
	<title>Deep Freeze</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258016580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If they don't ever install anything and just use the computer as it is and the software configuration never changes, I would recommend something like Deep Freeze. That way it doesn't matter what kind of spyware and junk they get on the machine, all it takes is a restart to get rid of it all and the machine is back to the way it's supposed to be.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If they do n't ever install anything and just use the computer as it is and the software configuration never changes , I would recommend something like Deep Freeze .
That way it does n't matter what kind of spyware and junk they get on the machine , all it takes is a restart to get rid of it all and the machine is back to the way it 's supposed to be .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they don't ever install anything and just use the computer as it is and the software configuration never changes, I would recommend something like Deep Freeze.
That way it doesn't matter what kind of spyware and junk they get on the machine, all it takes is a restart to get rid of it all and the machine is back to the way it's supposed to be.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076578</id>
	<title>Ubuntu</title>
	<author>hansamurai</author>
	<datestamp>1258055100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've told the story before, but last October I installed Ubuntu 8.10 on my in-law's laptop and haven't had a call back since.  Just had to set up their mail in Evolution and everything else worked: internet and printing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've told the story before , but last October I installed Ubuntu 8.10 on my in-law 's laptop and have n't had a call back since .
Just had to set up their mail in Evolution and everything else worked : internet and printing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've told the story before, but last October I installed Ubuntu 8.10 on my in-law's laptop and haven't had a call back since.
Just had to set up their mail in Evolution and everything else worked: internet and printing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076448</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>chapstercni</author>
	<datestamp>1258054680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I highly recommend this.</p><p>I have been deploying it, and it is working quite well.</p><p>It is very configurable as to what you want to allow and for whom. I love setting it up, and end users just CANNOT mess up the machine.</p><p>It isn't perfect, but my clients have certainly been happy with the results.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I highly recommend this.I have been deploying it , and it is working quite well.It is very configurable as to what you want to allow and for whom .
I love setting it up , and end users just CAN NOT mess up the machine.It is n't perfect , but my clients have certainly been happy with the results .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I highly recommend this.I have been deploying it, and it is working quite well.It is very configurable as to what you want to allow and for whom.
I love setting it up, and end users just CANNOT mess up the machine.It isn't perfect, but my clients have certainly been happy with the results.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074676</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078448</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258018680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are not correcting the behavior since you are fixing the problem for them. You learned how to fix the issue on your own. I would not invest time or energy in fixing it for them but rather with them. let them call you with questions, but do not I repeat do not take over the keyboard. It was their own error that caused the problem give them the tools to fix it not fix it. As far a Ubuntu and or Mac's people can still mess them up too. Giving the untrained access to a computer is like going to a mental asylum and handing out shotguns and ammo, not a good idea unless they can only hurt themselves. Bonus less mental people.</p><p>So if folks get hurt the will either learn or go away.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are not correcting the behavior since you are fixing the problem for them .
You learned how to fix the issue on your own .
I would not invest time or energy in fixing it for them but rather with them .
let them call you with questions , but do not I repeat do not take over the keyboard .
It was their own error that caused the problem give them the tools to fix it not fix it .
As far a Ubuntu and or Mac 's people can still mess them up too .
Giving the untrained access to a computer is like going to a mental asylum and handing out shotguns and ammo , not a good idea unless they can only hurt themselves .
Bonus less mental people.So if folks get hurt the will either learn or go away .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are not correcting the behavior since you are fixing the problem for them.
You learned how to fix the issue on your own.
I would not invest time or energy in fixing it for them but rather with them.
let them call you with questions, but do not I repeat do not take over the keyboard.
It was their own error that caused the problem give them the tools to fix it not fix it.
As far a Ubuntu and or Mac's people can still mess them up too.
Giving the untrained access to a computer is like going to a mental asylum and handing out shotguns and ammo, not a good idea unless they can only hurt themselves.
Bonus less mental people.So if folks get hurt the will either learn or go away.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077644</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>Brett Buck</author>
	<datestamp>1258058880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>"Why can't it just work?", and the fact that it doesn't is put on my shoulders as the "tech" generation.</p></div></blockquote><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; But, from an objective view, it kind of is the fault of the "tech generation". This stuff should "just work" and the fact that for the most part, it doesn't, and that this is an accepted view of the world, is something no one should have to accept. The fact that a lot of the experts are suggesting reformat/reinstall on a regular basis as if that's the only answer should bother everyone here.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Brett</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Why ca n't it just work ?
" , and the fact that it does n't is put on my shoulders as the " tech " generation .
      But , from an objective view , it kind of is the fault of the " tech generation " .
This stuff should " just work " and the fact that for the most part , it does n't , and that this is an accepted view of the world , is something no one should have to accept .
The fact that a lot of the experts are suggesting reformat/reinstall on a regular basis as if that 's the only answer should bother everyone here .
        Brett</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Why can't it just work?
", and the fact that it doesn't is put on my shoulders as the "tech" generation.
      But, from an objective view, it kind of is the fault of the "tech generation".
This stuff should "just work" and the fact that for the most part, it doesn't, and that this is an accepted view of the world, is something no one should have to accept.
The fact that a lot of the experts are suggesting reformat/reinstall on a regular basis as if that's the only answer should bother everyone here.
        Brett
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074816</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075562</id>
	<title>Re:Give Up</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258051860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, that means you have to fix the problem over the phone.  Do you know what kind of descriptions you get when you ask someone non-technical to tell you what's on the screen?</p><p>At least there's logmein now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , that means you have to fix the problem over the phone .
Do you know what kind of descriptions you get when you ask someone non-technical to tell you what 's on the screen ? At least there 's logmein now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, that means you have to fix the problem over the phone.
Do you know what kind of descriptions you get when you ask someone non-technical to tell you what's on the screen?At least there's logmein now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075044</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076908</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>AMuse</author>
	<datestamp>1258056300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I hate to say it and fuel the flames, but I also got my wife a Mac.  Then her parents got one, and my parents both got them.  Know what?  My tech support load dropped significantly and they're really happy their machine doesn't give them problems anymore.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I hate to say it and fuel the flames , but I also got my wife a Mac .
Then her parents got one , and my parents both got them .
Know what ?
My tech support load dropped significantly and they 're really happy their machine does n't give them problems anymore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hate to say it and fuel the flames, but I also got my wife a Mac.
Then her parents got one, and my parents both got them.
Know what?
My tech support load dropped significantly and they're really happy their machine doesn't give them problems anymore.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075962</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074930</id>
	<title>Re:Buy them a Mac</title>
	<author>stokessd</author>
	<datestamp>1258050180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I did the same thing, and as a bonus I can easily remote desktop in (with audio) and show them how to do something.  In addition to the super easy remote desktop there is easy backup at the system level.  So I don't have to keep harping on them to backup what they care about, it just happens automagically.  Not as good as offsite, but cheap and easy.</p><p>I can't imagine a nicer remote system for the marginally technically inclined.</p><p>However, anytime they have had a problem in the last 4 years, it's been cable modem related, so the remote desktop is hopeless.</p><p>Sheldon</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I did the same thing , and as a bonus I can easily remote desktop in ( with audio ) and show them how to do something .
In addition to the super easy remote desktop there is easy backup at the system level .
So I do n't have to keep harping on them to backup what they care about , it just happens automagically .
Not as good as offsite , but cheap and easy.I ca n't imagine a nicer remote system for the marginally technically inclined.However , anytime they have had a problem in the last 4 years , it 's been cable modem related , so the remote desktop is hopeless.Sheldon</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I did the same thing, and as a bonus I can easily remote desktop in (with audio) and show them how to do something.
In addition to the super easy remote desktop there is easy backup at the system level.
So I don't have to keep harping on them to backup what they care about, it just happens automagically.
Not as good as offsite, but cheap and easy.I can't imagine a nicer remote system for the marginally technically inclined.However, anytime they have had a problem in the last 4 years, it's been cable modem related, so the remote desktop is hopeless.Sheldon</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074696</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076850</id>
	<title>Re:Install Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Lesrahpem</author>
	<datestamp>1258056060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Sounds like a perfect audience for an OS with fewer security flaws.</p></div><p>I thought the same thing after supporting a family composed of a ages 6, 13, 18, and 40+. I set them up with Ubuntu after hearing that they mainly use the computer for internet and email, as well as occasionally typing reports and changing the music on their iPods. Ubuntu did solve the malware problem, but it introduced several more challenging problems I did not see coming:</p><ul><li>OpenOffice saves in it's own format by default. Try explaining this to school children when they save their homework and then can't open it at school.</li><li>iTunes does not work. Try explaining why the exact programs they are used to using do not work, even though alternatives like Rhythmbox work just as well. (I installed and showed them Rhythmbox, and they thought I had just installed iTunes...)</li></ul><p>I could go on with several more specific examples. What it comes down to, is there are so many very small differences between Windows and Ubuntu (and likely anything else) that the users were very lost and confused. They had more questions and more problems, which have thus far been impossible to solve. The problem has changed from one that can be at least corrected with software to one that requires educating the user.</p><p>The average user does not want to be educated. The average user wants whatever solution requires the least effort on their part. As long as calling you to solve their problems is easier then solving the problem themselves, they will continue to call you. I have solved this issue by looking at all the computer repair places and the like in this area to determine what the charge and what their turn around time is. I offer friends and family a much better deal than anywhere else they can get their computer fixed.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds like a perfect audience for an OS with fewer security flaws.I thought the same thing after supporting a family composed of a ages 6 , 13 , 18 , and 40 + .
I set them up with Ubuntu after hearing that they mainly use the computer for internet and email , as well as occasionally typing reports and changing the music on their iPods .
Ubuntu did solve the malware problem , but it introduced several more challenging problems I did not see coming : OpenOffice saves in it 's own format by default .
Try explaining this to school children when they save their homework and then ca n't open it at school.iTunes does not work .
Try explaining why the exact programs they are used to using do not work , even though alternatives like Rhythmbox work just as well .
( I installed and showed them Rhythmbox , and they thought I had just installed iTunes... ) I could go on with several more specific examples .
What it comes down to , is there are so many very small differences between Windows and Ubuntu ( and likely anything else ) that the users were very lost and confused .
They had more questions and more problems , which have thus far been impossible to solve .
The problem has changed from one that can be at least corrected with software to one that requires educating the user.The average user does not want to be educated .
The average user wants whatever solution requires the least effort on their part .
As long as calling you to solve their problems is easier then solving the problem themselves , they will continue to call you .
I have solved this issue by looking at all the computer repair places and the like in this area to determine what the charge and what their turn around time is .
I offer friends and family a much better deal than anywhere else they can get their computer fixed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds like a perfect audience for an OS with fewer security flaws.I thought the same thing after supporting a family composed of a ages 6, 13, 18, and 40+.
I set them up with Ubuntu after hearing that they mainly use the computer for internet and email, as well as occasionally typing reports and changing the music on their iPods.
Ubuntu did solve the malware problem, but it introduced several more challenging problems I did not see coming:OpenOffice saves in it's own format by default.
Try explaining this to school children when they save their homework and then can't open it at school.iTunes does not work.
Try explaining why the exact programs they are used to using do not work, even though alternatives like Rhythmbox work just as well.
(I installed and showed them Rhythmbox, and they thought I had just installed iTunes...)I could go on with several more specific examples.
What it comes down to, is there are so many very small differences between Windows and Ubuntu (and likely anything else) that the users were very lost and confused.
They had more questions and more problems, which have thus far been impossible to solve.
The problem has changed from one that can be at least corrected with software to one that requires educating the user.The average user does not want to be educated.
The average user wants whatever solution requires the least effort on their part.
As long as calling you to solve their problems is easier then solving the problem themselves, they will continue to call you.
I have solved this issue by looking at all the computer repair places and the like in this area to determine what the charge and what their turn around time is.
I offer friends and family a much better deal than anywhere else they can get their computer fixed.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074680</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076290</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258054260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Anyway, back to the story, whenever her computer screws up, I make it a point to note that I'm saving its life. It gets her all riled up, stating she'll just buy a new computer - to which I reply I'll simply buy a new dog when mine gets hurt - or even a new girlfriend when mine is broken.</p></div><p> So how comfortable is that couch?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Anyway , back to the story , whenever her computer screws up , I make it a point to note that I 'm saving its life .
It gets her all riled up , stating she 'll just buy a new computer - to which I reply I 'll simply buy a new dog when mine gets hurt - or even a new girlfriend when mine is broken .
So how comfortable is that couch ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anyway, back to the story, whenever her computer screws up, I make it a point to note that I'm saving its life.
It gets her all riled up, stating she'll just buy a new computer - to which I reply I'll simply buy a new dog when mine gets hurt - or even a new girlfriend when mine is broken.
So how comfortable is that couch?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30081956</id>
	<title>The way to get around this</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1258033500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>is to make them pay a professional. after a few hundred dollars they will get better.</p><p>My family is smart enough not to need this sort of infantile hand holding, but I am to understand some people come from inferior stock.</p><p>Hmm, maybe I shouldn't reply to<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. posts after role playing a dandy.</p><p>Tell them in the virtual world things are turned around. Instead of assuming trust, assume everyone has an angle to get you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>is to make them pay a professional .
after a few hundred dollars they will get better.My family is smart enough not to need this sort of infantile hand holding , but I am to understand some people come from inferior stock.Hmm , maybe I should n't reply to / .
posts after role playing a dandy.Tell them in the virtual world things are turned around .
Instead of assuming trust , assume everyone has an angle to get you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>is to make them pay a professional.
after a few hundred dollars they will get better.My family is smart enough not to need this sort of infantile hand holding, but I am to understand some people come from inferior stock.Hmm, maybe I shouldn't reply to /.
posts after role playing a dandy.Tell them in the virtual world things are turned around.
Instead of assuming trust, assume everyone has an angle to get you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077678</id>
	<title>Re:Only every 8 months? Lucky.</title>
	<author>Blakey Rat</author>
	<datestamp>1258059000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Mac advice doesn't help when they go out and buy a Sony camcorder with no Mac software, and no Firewire port (which would work with the software Apple does have.)</p><p>The worst part? Some jerk at the Apple store talked them into that particular model! "Genius" my ass.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Mac advice does n't help when they go out and buy a Sony camcorder with no Mac software , and no Firewire port ( which would work with the software Apple does have .
) The worst part ?
Some jerk at the Apple store talked them into that particular model !
" Genius " my ass .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Mac advice doesn't help when they go out and buy a Sony camcorder with no Mac software, and no Firewire port (which would work with the software Apple does have.
)The worst part?
Some jerk at the Apple store talked them into that particular model!
"Genius" my ass.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074810</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30084068</id>
	<title>Re:Install Ubuntu</title>
	<author>powerbooklinux</author>
	<datestamp>1258054200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Lots of good suggestions, but hey they are your family.  As much as I like Linux myself, there are still a few "gotchas" that will be a showstopper for many, so I'm converting all my family to Macs and in every case they've solved all the problems they were having, and they last and last too.<br>
<br>
If you can't go with a Mac, then Windows is a constant problem to protect.<br>
<br>
Try these:<br>
* Hide IE<br>
* Install Firefox with NoScript and show them how to selectively allow scripts - the problem is that people are lazy and when one or two script domains doesn't allow the page to work, they turn on "allow globally" completely defeating the reason to use NoScript.  I've seen this over and over, and while I don't understand it, I accept that people are going to do it.<br>
* Install/use Windows Defender and Microsoft Security Essentials<br>
* Install McAfee Site Advisor in Firefox &amp; IE<br>
* Make sure they don't use Outlook or Outlook Express, but rather Thunderbird<br>
* Switch their router to use OpenDNS and block malware, phishing, etc. for their network<br>
<br>
Even all of this will not be anywhere near as safe as just using a Mac right out of the box or Linux, and it requires constant monitoring to make sure updates don't stop for one reason or other, but it will keep most people out of trouble.<br>
<br>
With Mac users, you don't really need to warn them about anything except phishing.  Using Site Advisor and the filters on Firefox is about all you need.  No anti-virus or anti-malware is necessary.   Maybe some day, but not today.  Been saying the same thing for many years (8+?) now.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Lots of good suggestions , but hey they are your family .
As much as I like Linux myself , there are still a few " gotchas " that will be a showstopper for many , so I 'm converting all my family to Macs and in every case they 've solved all the problems they were having , and they last and last too .
If you ca n't go with a Mac , then Windows is a constant problem to protect .
Try these : * Hide IE * Install Firefox with NoScript and show them how to selectively allow scripts - the problem is that people are lazy and when one or two script domains does n't allow the page to work , they turn on " allow globally " completely defeating the reason to use NoScript .
I 've seen this over and over , and while I do n't understand it , I accept that people are going to do it .
* Install/use Windows Defender and Microsoft Security Essentials * Install McAfee Site Advisor in Firefox &amp; IE * Make sure they do n't use Outlook or Outlook Express , but rather Thunderbird * Switch their router to use OpenDNS and block malware , phishing , etc .
for their network Even all of this will not be anywhere near as safe as just using a Mac right out of the box or Linux , and it requires constant monitoring to make sure updates do n't stop for one reason or other , but it will keep most people out of trouble .
With Mac users , you do n't really need to warn them about anything except phishing .
Using Site Advisor and the filters on Firefox is about all you need .
No anti-virus or anti-malware is necessary .
Maybe some day , but not today .
Been saying the same thing for many years ( 8 + ?
) now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lots of good suggestions, but hey they are your family.
As much as I like Linux myself, there are still a few "gotchas" that will be a showstopper for many, so I'm converting all my family to Macs and in every case they've solved all the problems they were having, and they last and last too.
If you can't go with a Mac, then Windows is a constant problem to protect.
Try these:
* Hide IE
* Install Firefox with NoScript and show them how to selectively allow scripts - the problem is that people are lazy and when one or two script domains doesn't allow the page to work, they turn on "allow globally" completely defeating the reason to use NoScript.
I've seen this over and over, and while I don't understand it, I accept that people are going to do it.
* Install/use Windows Defender and Microsoft Security Essentials
* Install McAfee Site Advisor in Firefox &amp; IE
* Make sure they don't use Outlook or Outlook Express, but rather Thunderbird
* Switch their router to use OpenDNS and block malware, phishing, etc.
for their network

Even all of this will not be anywhere near as safe as just using a Mac right out of the box or Linux, and it requires constant monitoring to make sure updates don't stop for one reason or other, but it will keep most people out of trouble.
With Mac users, you don't really need to warn them about anything except phishing.
Using Site Advisor and the filters on Firefox is about all you need.
No anti-virus or anti-malware is necessary.
Maybe some day, but not today.
Been saying the same thing for many years (8+?
) now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074680</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30079034</id>
	<title>Re:Only every 8 months? Lucky.</title>
	<author>reynolds\_john</author>
	<datestamp>1258020840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is genius. I'm imagining the same thing on "Car Talk":</p><p>Caller: Hi, I'm calling from BFE, Arizona. My 1998 Honda Accord has the following problem...</p><p>Tom: STOP RIGHT THERE!  You need to sell that car, and get a Lexus. We only recommend Lexus.</p><p>Caller: Uh, well, I've got a problem here I was hoping you could solve instead of a $40k solution...</p><p>Tom: Well, you were too stupid when you bought that. Sorry. Just go get a Lexus. Problems solved!</p><p>Tom: Next caller!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is genius .
I 'm imagining the same thing on " Car Talk " : Caller : Hi , I 'm calling from BFE , Arizona .
My 1998 Honda Accord has the following problem...Tom : STOP RIGHT THERE !
You need to sell that car , and get a Lexus .
We only recommend Lexus.Caller : Uh , well , I 've got a problem here I was hoping you could solve instead of a $ 40k solution...Tom : Well , you were too stupid when you bought that .
Sorry. Just go get a Lexus .
Problems solved ! Tom : Next caller !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is genius.
I'm imagining the same thing on "Car Talk":Caller: Hi, I'm calling from BFE, Arizona.
My 1998 Honda Accord has the following problem...Tom: STOP RIGHT THERE!
You need to sell that car, and get a Lexus.
We only recommend Lexus.Caller: Uh, well, I've got a problem here I was hoping you could solve instead of a $40k solution...Tom: Well, you were too stupid when you bought that.
Sorry. Just go get a Lexus.
Problems solved!Tom: Next caller!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074810</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074774</id>
	<title>Learn to properly protect their PC's</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258049820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've had that same role for years, and the best way to not make it a nuciance is to do things right the first time.</p><p>AVG Free, SpyBot (and setup auto-updates/scans for it), setup windows Updates.</p><p>I have 11 family members I support, no issues, and they range from 6 to 60 in age.</p><p>I have the same setup for my traveling sales folks at work too, AVG Network Edition, Spybot, Forced windows updates.  Never had a problem.  Stop complaining and do the task correctly.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've had that same role for years , and the best way to not make it a nuciance is to do things right the first time.AVG Free , SpyBot ( and setup auto-updates/scans for it ) , setup windows Updates.I have 11 family members I support , no issues , and they range from 6 to 60 in age.I have the same setup for my traveling sales folks at work too , AVG Network Edition , Spybot , Forced windows updates .
Never had a problem .
Stop complaining and do the task correctly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've had that same role for years, and the best way to not make it a nuciance is to do things right the first time.AVG Free, SpyBot (and setup auto-updates/scans for it), setup windows Updates.I have 11 family members I support, no issues, and they range from 6 to 60 in age.I have the same setup for my traveling sales folks at work too, AVG Network Edition, Spybot, Forced windows updates.
Never had a problem.
Stop complaining and do the task correctly.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075374</id>
	<title>Admittedly simplistic answer</title>
	<author>ProteusQ</author>
	<datestamp>1258051380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I do tech support for 2 people, and I've come to the conclusion that:</p><p>1) Linux is good enough for 98\% of what they want to do &amp; that this option fits my budget.<br>2) If you find yourself babysitting a Linux install for too long, replace it with a used Mac.<br>3) The admin is the only one allowed to use Windows on a regular basis (tax software &amp; Netflix in my case).</p><p>Obviously, we're not gamers, and I don't claim that this will work for everyone everywhere.  But I offer it in case it's helpful.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do tech support for 2 people , and I 've come to the conclusion that : 1 ) Linux is good enough for 98 \ % of what they want to do &amp; that this option fits my budget.2 ) If you find yourself babysitting a Linux install for too long , replace it with a used Mac.3 ) The admin is the only one allowed to use Windows on a regular basis ( tax software &amp; Netflix in my case ) .Obviously , we 're not gamers , and I do n't claim that this will work for everyone everywhere .
But I offer it in case it 's helpful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I do tech support for 2 people, and I've come to the conclusion that:1) Linux is good enough for 98\% of what they want to do &amp; that this option fits my budget.2) If you find yourself babysitting a Linux install for too long, replace it with a used Mac.3) The admin is the only one allowed to use Windows on a regular basis (tax software &amp; Netflix in my case).Obviously, we're not gamers, and I don't claim that this will work for everyone everywhere.
But I offer it in case it's helpful.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077610</id>
	<title>Re:Get a Mac</title>
	<author>Psyborgue</author>
	<datestamp>1258058820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I gave my dad my old aluminum powerbook.  No tech support request from him anymore.  My mom, on the other hand, who still uses a PC...  it's almost a daily issue.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I gave my dad my old aluminum powerbook .
No tech support request from him anymore .
My mom , on the other hand , who still uses a PC... it 's almost a daily issue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I gave my dad my old aluminum powerbook.
No tech support request from him anymore.
My mom, on the other hand, who still uses a PC...  it's almost a daily issue.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076310</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30081848</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258032660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I tried to convert my Mom to ubuntu and that was a no go. They are old and they are used to Windows. They couldn't find anything so I had to switch their computer back to Windows.</p><p>A guy at work told me that at his university the machines would boot linux and immediately thereafter launch Windows inside of VMWare player. Most people would not even realize that linux was running underneath. Every night the machines were rebooted and the Windows image would be loaded again from scratch. Therefore, any viruses, crapware, etc<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. were all gone.</p><p>I think this is the way to go for me. Has anyone done this before? Tutorials anyone?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I tried to convert my Mom to ubuntu and that was a no go .
They are old and they are used to Windows .
They could n't find anything so I had to switch their computer back to Windows.A guy at work told me that at his university the machines would boot linux and immediately thereafter launch Windows inside of VMWare player .
Most people would not even realize that linux was running underneath .
Every night the machines were rebooted and the Windows image would be loaded again from scratch .
Therefore , any viruses , crapware , etc .. were all gone.I think this is the way to go for me .
Has anyone done this before ?
Tutorials anyone ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I tried to convert my Mom to ubuntu and that was a no go.
They are old and they are used to Windows.
They couldn't find anything so I had to switch their computer back to Windows.A guy at work told me that at his university the machines would boot linux and immediately thereafter launch Windows inside of VMWare player.
Most people would not even realize that linux was running underneath.
Every night the machines were rebooted and the Windows image would be loaded again from scratch.
Therefore, any viruses, crapware, etc .. were all gone.I think this is the way to go for me.
Has anyone done this before?
Tutorials anyone?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075052</id>
	<title>Some technical solutions</title>
	<author>ScaledLizard</author>
	<datestamp>1258050420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><ul> <li> Ease system recovery by creating images of the system partitions</li><li> Allow users to run browsers only in a virtual machine</li><li> Use a Knoppix boot CD instead of an OS booting from disk</li></ul></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ease system recovery by creating images of the system partitions Allow users to run browsers only in a virtual machine Use a Knoppix boot CD instead of an OS booting from disk</tokentext>
<sentencetext>  Ease system recovery by creating images of the system partitions Allow users to run browsers only in a virtual machine Use a Knoppix boot CD instead of an OS booting from disk</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075150</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>Twilightman42</author>
	<datestamp>1258050780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I did support for several of my friends and I found that installing Ubuntu (32 bit, less messing around) was the easiest solution if they are just using it to browse the net and e-mail (in which case why do they have so much Malware?). Problem is a few of them wanted access to iTunes, really creating a restricted environment in windows is the best option and try to idiot proof it as much as possible with decent antivirus protection, Chrome or Firefox, and tell them to stay away from virus magnets like Limewire. Or, I hate to say it, have them buy a Mac. I love linux, but for newb users Macs are the easiest option if a bit pricey.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I did support for several of my friends and I found that installing Ubuntu ( 32 bit , less messing around ) was the easiest solution if they are just using it to browse the net and e-mail ( in which case why do they have so much Malware ? ) .
Problem is a few of them wanted access to iTunes , really creating a restricted environment in windows is the best option and try to idiot proof it as much as possible with decent antivirus protection , Chrome or Firefox , and tell them to stay away from virus magnets like Limewire .
Or , I hate to say it , have them buy a Mac .
I love linux , but for newb users Macs are the easiest option if a bit pricey .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I did support for several of my friends and I found that installing Ubuntu (32 bit, less messing around) was the easiest solution if they are just using it to browse the net and e-mail (in which case why do they have so much Malware?).
Problem is a few of them wanted access to iTunes, really creating a restricted environment in windows is the best option and try to idiot proof it as much as possible with decent antivirus protection, Chrome or Firefox, and tell them to stay away from virus magnets like Limewire.
Or, I hate to say it, have them buy a Mac.
I love linux, but for newb users Macs are the easiest option if a bit pricey.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074684</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077636</id>
	<title>Re:Related question</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258058880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I keep sticking a knife into my eye every three months. Can anyone provide detail instructions on how I can do this without causing so much pain?</p><p>Sometimes giving an answer to the asked question isn't appropriate. Sometimes you have to tell the asker that they are looking at it all wrong.</p></div><p>I got the Operating systems on the machine to where they needed to be. Slipped in bootcd with Acronis True Image after plugging in my USB external HDD. I made a complete image of their drive at optimal condition. I saved that image and the next time it happened I reimaged the drive and only had to do the MS updates.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I keep sticking a knife into my eye every three months .
Can anyone provide detail instructions on how I can do this without causing so much pain ? Sometimes giving an answer to the asked question is n't appropriate .
Sometimes you have to tell the asker that they are looking at it all wrong.I got the Operating systems on the machine to where they needed to be .
Slipped in bootcd with Acronis True Image after plugging in my USB external HDD .
I made a complete image of their drive at optimal condition .
I saved that image and the next time it happened I reimaged the drive and only had to do the MS updates .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I keep sticking a knife into my eye every three months.
Can anyone provide detail instructions on how I can do this without causing so much pain?Sometimes giving an answer to the asked question isn't appropriate.
Sometimes you have to tell the asker that they are looking at it all wrong.I got the Operating systems on the machine to where they needed to be.
Slipped in bootcd with Acronis True Image after plugging in my USB external HDD.
I made a complete image of their drive at optimal condition.
I saved that image and the next time it happened I reimaged the drive and only had to do the MS updates.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074704</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076464</id>
	<title>I've Gotten Through This</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258054680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have dealt with this and (for the most part) took care of it. What I did is too long to explain here. On my site, www.itnewstoday.com, I will address your question within a week, keep checking back. If you want more details email me, my email address is listed within itnewstoday.com as well. I can give you tips by email.</p><p>- Jeremy</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have dealt with this and ( for the most part ) took care of it .
What I did is too long to explain here .
On my site , www.itnewstoday.com , I will address your question within a week , keep checking back .
If you want more details email me , my email address is listed within itnewstoday.com as well .
I can give you tips by email.- Jeremy</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have dealt with this and (for the most part) took care of it.
What I did is too long to explain here.
On my site, www.itnewstoday.com, I will address your question within a week, keep checking back.
If you want more details email me, my email address is listed within itnewstoday.com as well.
I can give you tips by email.- Jeremy</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075020</id>
	<title>Re:Revoke admin rights.</title>
	<author>Z34107</author>
	<datestamp>1258050360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>^This.</p><p>My cousin and I are the de facto unpaid familial tech support for my grandparents' computer, which is used not only by them but cousins, relatives, etc.  Lots of viruses, and lots of well-meaning relatives and technical gurus trying to "fix" things.</p><p>We changed the password on the Administrator account and, this time, didn't tell anyone.  There was grumbling, but we've never had to fix their computer since.</p><p>All the submitter has to do is password protect the Administrator account.  People don't install new software every week, and I can guarantee you the "maintenance" headache will be much smaller than the "support/repair/disinfect" headache.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>^ This.My cousin and I are the de facto unpaid familial tech support for my grandparents ' computer , which is used not only by them but cousins , relatives , etc .
Lots of viruses , and lots of well-meaning relatives and technical gurus trying to " fix " things.We changed the password on the Administrator account and , this time , did n't tell anyone .
There was grumbling , but we 've never had to fix their computer since.All the submitter has to do is password protect the Administrator account .
People do n't install new software every week , and I can guarantee you the " maintenance " headache will be much smaller than the " support/repair/disinfect " headache .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>^This.My cousin and I are the de facto unpaid familial tech support for my grandparents' computer, which is used not only by them but cousins, relatives, etc.
Lots of viruses, and lots of well-meaning relatives and technical gurus trying to "fix" things.We changed the password on the Administrator account and, this time, didn't tell anyone.
There was grumbling, but we've never had to fix their computer since.All the submitter has to do is password protect the Administrator account.
People don't install new software every week, and I can guarantee you the "maintenance" headache will be much smaller than the "support/repair/disinfect" headache.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074742</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30083274</id>
	<title>Re:Not so fast there, kid.</title>
	<author>ldj</author>
	<datestamp>1258044540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This assumes your family doesn't have a ten to fifteen year investment in Windows hardware, software, and peripherals.</p><p>The peripheral can be anything from a multifunction printer to an embroidery machine or an Orion telescope.</p></div><p>Heh, you're really reaching here!  Those cases are the outliers, not the norm.  At least in my circle of family, friends, coworkers, and acquaintances, I'm not aware of anyone running 10-year-old multifunction printers or embroidery machines.  I do have a couple of friends with Orion telescopes, but that wouldn't stop them from dual booting into Windows when they want to use the associated software.  But if dual booting or using a virtual machine wasn't an option, I would understand if the 5\% or less of the Windows-using population that you're referring to just wanted to stick with Windows.</p><p>

I prefer to stick to discussing the largest segment of the home computer-using population for topics such as this.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This assumes your family does n't have a ten to fifteen year investment in Windows hardware , software , and peripherals.The peripheral can be anything from a multifunction printer to an embroidery machine or an Orion telescope.Heh , you 're really reaching here !
Those cases are the outliers , not the norm .
At least in my circle of family , friends , coworkers , and acquaintances , I 'm not aware of anyone running 10-year-old multifunction printers or embroidery machines .
I do have a couple of friends with Orion telescopes , but that would n't stop them from dual booting into Windows when they want to use the associated software .
But if dual booting or using a virtual machine was n't an option , I would understand if the 5 \ % or less of the Windows-using population that you 're referring to just wanted to stick with Windows .
I prefer to stick to discussing the largest segment of the home computer-using population for topics such as this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This assumes your family doesn't have a ten to fifteen year investment in Windows hardware, software, and peripherals.The peripheral can be anything from a multifunction printer to an embroidery machine or an Orion telescope.Heh, you're really reaching here!
Those cases are the outliers, not the norm.
At least in my circle of family, friends, coworkers, and acquaintances, I'm not aware of anyone running 10-year-old multifunction printers or embroidery machines.
I do have a couple of friends with Orion telescopes, but that wouldn't stop them from dual booting into Windows when they want to use the associated software.
But if dual booting or using a virtual machine wasn't an option, I would understand if the 5\% or less of the Windows-using population that you're referring to just wanted to stick with Windows.
I prefer to stick to discussing the largest segment of the home computer-using population for topics such as this.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078522</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076168</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258053840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow your girlfriend is a bitch</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow your girlfriend is a bitch</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow your girlfriend is a bitch</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075622</id>
	<title>I solved this problem.</title>
	<author>Aladrin</author>
	<datestamp>1258052040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I solved this problem long ago.  I simply made it a lot more painful to get my help than to just use it right in the first place.  Now they very, very rarely ask me for computer help, and when they do, there are bribes involved.  Having to suffer for months with a computer that's too slow to use is usually enough pain, but then I also tell them exactly how stupid it was that they did what they did.  That usually prevents a re-occurance.</p><p>Sounds like your family won't learn unless there's a stick involved, either.  Carrot doesn't always work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I solved this problem long ago .
I simply made it a lot more painful to get my help than to just use it right in the first place .
Now they very , very rarely ask me for computer help , and when they do , there are bribes involved .
Having to suffer for months with a computer that 's too slow to use is usually enough pain , but then I also tell them exactly how stupid it was that they did what they did .
That usually prevents a re-occurance.Sounds like your family wo n't learn unless there 's a stick involved , either .
Carrot does n't always work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I solved this problem long ago.
I simply made it a lot more painful to get my help than to just use it right in the first place.
Now they very, very rarely ask me for computer help, and when they do, there are bribes involved.
Having to suffer for months with a computer that's too slow to use is usually enough pain, but then I also tell them exactly how stupid it was that they did what they did.
That usually prevents a re-occurance.Sounds like your family won't learn unless there's a stick involved, either.
Carrot doesn't always work.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076356</id>
	<title>Re:A friend in your situation ...</title>
	<author>BenEnglishAtHome</author>
	<datestamp>1258054380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I put my mom on a ThinkNIC back when they first came out.  I thought (and still think) it was a wonderful idea.</p><p>However, all attempts at selling such devices have failed miserably.  Howevermuch we may think them an elegant solution, the market has decided that such steady-state computers are unwanted.  People want more than perfect reliability.  They're willing to accept lousy reliability to get it.</p><p>A shame, really.  I wonder if anybody has done a live CD Linux distro for this purpose?  I'd sure like to find one to play with.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I put my mom on a ThinkNIC back when they first came out .
I thought ( and still think ) it was a wonderful idea.However , all attempts at selling such devices have failed miserably .
Howevermuch we may think them an elegant solution , the market has decided that such steady-state computers are unwanted .
People want more than perfect reliability .
They 're willing to accept lousy reliability to get it.A shame , really .
I wonder if anybody has done a live CD Linux distro for this purpose ?
I 'd sure like to find one to play with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I put my mom on a ThinkNIC back when they first came out.
I thought (and still think) it was a wonderful idea.However, all attempts at selling such devices have failed miserably.
Howevermuch we may think them an elegant solution, the market has decided that such steady-state computers are unwanted.
People want more than perfect reliability.
They're willing to accept lousy reliability to get it.A shame, really.
I wonder if anybody has done a live CD Linux distro for this purpose?
I'd sure like to find one to play with.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074994</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076552</id>
	<title>Use Macs plus LogMeIn remote control</title>
	<author>ozarkcanoer</author>
	<datestamp>1258054980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm committed to the Mac approach, with the addition of using LogMein for remote access and control.  My father, now in his 80s, has used Macs that I have given him or bought with my siblings going back to System 7 days.  He's on OS X  now with a Mac mini.  There is always some little thing that troubles him and I've found that by having LogMeIn running all the time allows me to connect to him from my OS X system and talk him through the solution or correct toolbar problems he has in Excel (the old PowerPC version) easily and quickly.  No viruses, no antivirus software, few  hardware issues in any of the five Macs he's had over the years.  Usually it just works.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm committed to the Mac approach , with the addition of using LogMein for remote access and control .
My father , now in his 80s , has used Macs that I have given him or bought with my siblings going back to System 7 days .
He 's on OS X now with a Mac mini .
There is always some little thing that troubles him and I 've found that by having LogMeIn running all the time allows me to connect to him from my OS X system and talk him through the solution or correct toolbar problems he has in Excel ( the old PowerPC version ) easily and quickly .
No viruses , no antivirus software , few hardware issues in any of the five Macs he 's had over the years .
Usually it just works .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm committed to the Mac approach, with the addition of using LogMein for remote access and control.
My father, now in his 80s, has used Macs that I have given him or bought with my siblings going back to System 7 days.
He's on OS X  now with a Mac mini.
There is always some little thing that troubles him and I've found that by having LogMeIn running all the time allows me to connect to him from my OS X system and talk him through the solution or correct toolbar problems he has in Excel (the old PowerPC version) easily and quickly.
No viruses, no antivirus software, few  hardware issues in any of the five Macs he's had over the years.
Usually it just works.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076282</id>
	<title>Get them anything but MS Windows.</title>
	<author>miffo.swe</author>
	<datestamp>1258054200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The short answer is, if you want less work throw in the towel and get them a Mac or a Linux box. Refuse to help with the windows boxes or only help out with really hard tasks.</p><p>Fighting malware is an everyday task on Windows XP/Vista/7 so if someone wants to use it they have to accept it and learn Windows from the bottom and up. Throwing that on someone else isnt nice. Do you buy a crappy car and demand someone else to fix it for free?</p><p>At home i only have Linux except for my 12 y old son who plays games. My refusal to help with Windows has made him learn it pretty well by now so i like to view it a win-win situation. I dont have to put in hours of keeping an insecure crappy OS afloat and he learns some stuff about computers.</p><p>Same goes for my mom and pop who i gladly help with recovering lost files from formatted hard disks, failed USB disks etc and their Linux boxes. They know i wont go near Windows without serious money changing hands which is exactly how i like it. Helping out with Windows is really helping Microsoft more than helping your relatives. They bought something already broken from the get go and should really go to the reseller instead of to you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The short answer is , if you want less work throw in the towel and get them a Mac or a Linux box .
Refuse to help with the windows boxes or only help out with really hard tasks.Fighting malware is an everyday task on Windows XP/Vista/7 so if someone wants to use it they have to accept it and learn Windows from the bottom and up .
Throwing that on someone else isnt nice .
Do you buy a crappy car and demand someone else to fix it for free ? At home i only have Linux except for my 12 y old son who plays games .
My refusal to help with Windows has made him learn it pretty well by now so i like to view it a win-win situation .
I dont have to put in hours of keeping an insecure crappy OS afloat and he learns some stuff about computers.Same goes for my mom and pop who i gladly help with recovering lost files from formatted hard disks , failed USB disks etc and their Linux boxes .
They know i wont go near Windows without serious money changing hands which is exactly how i like it .
Helping out with Windows is really helping Microsoft more than helping your relatives .
They bought something already broken from the get go and should really go to the reseller instead of to you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The short answer is, if you want less work throw in the towel and get them a Mac or a Linux box.
Refuse to help with the windows boxes or only help out with really hard tasks.Fighting malware is an everyday task on Windows XP/Vista/7 so if someone wants to use it they have to accept it and learn Windows from the bottom and up.
Throwing that on someone else isnt nice.
Do you buy a crappy car and demand someone else to fix it for free?At home i only have Linux except for my 12 y old son who plays games.
My refusal to help with Windows has made him learn it pretty well by now so i like to view it a win-win situation.
I dont have to put in hours of keeping an insecure crappy OS afloat and he learns some stuff about computers.Same goes for my mom and pop who i gladly help with recovering lost files from formatted hard disks, failed USB disks etc and their Linux boxes.
They know i wont go near Windows without serious money changing hands which is exactly how i like it.
Helping out with Windows is really helping Microsoft more than helping your relatives.
They bought something already broken from the get go and should really go to the reseller instead of to you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077552</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258058580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It works for me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It works for me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It works for me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075552</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076422</id>
	<title>What if your parents are smart? What then?</title>
	<author>w0mprat</author>
	<datestamp>1258054560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>While you guys are all battling with tech-illiterate parents who can't learn, my parents can and do learn, which is by far a worse situation.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) Now this would be a good thing, but my dad being a engineer who's had to get up to speed with computers in the last 20 years, goes head to head with me on technical issues. <br> As a natural problem solver he tackles issues head on with his PC and does very well for a member of the baby boomer generation who really didn't grow up saturated in technology the way later generations have. <br> <br>
Yet my dad makes the same observation that many of the elder techno-illiterate folk do. "Why doesn't it just work?" in this case is not an observation of a techno-phobe but a seasoned engineer who's been building things for 40 years that peoples live depends on. <br> <br>"I design a bridge, if it crashed twice a day and had security problems I'd be out of a career." he says jokingly.<br> <br>
So in my case, pity me, for I have no clever comebacks for these kinds of remarks. I certainly can't impress my dad with meaningless technobabble because he would understand it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>While you guys are all battling with tech-illiterate parents who ca n't learn , my parents can and do learn , which is by far a worse situation .
: ) Now this would be a good thing , but my dad being a engineer who 's had to get up to speed with computers in the last 20 years , goes head to head with me on technical issues .
As a natural problem solver he tackles issues head on with his PC and does very well for a member of the baby boomer generation who really did n't grow up saturated in technology the way later generations have .
Yet my dad makes the same observation that many of the elder techno-illiterate folk do .
" Why does n't it just work ?
" in this case is not an observation of a techno-phobe but a seasoned engineer who 's been building things for 40 years that peoples live depends on .
" I design a bridge , if it crashed twice a day and had security problems I 'd be out of a career .
" he says jokingly .
So in my case , pity me , for I have no clever comebacks for these kinds of remarks .
I certainly ca n't impress my dad with meaningless technobabble because he would understand it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While you guys are all battling with tech-illiterate parents who can't learn, my parents can and do learn, which is by far a worse situation.
:) Now this would be a good thing, but my dad being a engineer who's had to get up to speed with computers in the last 20 years, goes head to head with me on technical issues.
As a natural problem solver he tackles issues head on with his PC and does very well for a member of the baby boomer generation who really didn't grow up saturated in technology the way later generations have.
Yet my dad makes the same observation that many of the elder techno-illiterate folk do.
"Why doesn't it just work?
" in this case is not an observation of a techno-phobe but a seasoned engineer who's been building things for 40 years that peoples live depends on.
"I design a bridge, if it crashed twice a day and had security problems I'd be out of a career.
" he says jokingly.
So in my case, pity me, for I have no clever comebacks for these kinds of remarks.
I certainly can't impress my dad with meaningless technobabble because he would understand it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30084546</id>
	<title>Re:Install Ubuntu</title>
	<author>supernova\_hq</author>
	<datestamp>1258105800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You installed openoffice without changing the defaults to doc,xls and ppt? Sounds like half the fail was on you buddy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You installed openoffice without changing the defaults to doc,xls and ppt ?
Sounds like half the fail was on you buddy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You installed openoffice without changing the defaults to doc,xls and ppt?
Sounds like half the fail was on you buddy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076850</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075792</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>Kazura</author>
	<datestamp>1258052640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Marginally on topic - but I can SERIOUSLY relate!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Marginally on topic - but I can SERIOUSLY relate !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Marginally on topic - but I can SERIOUSLY relate!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30085426</id>
	<title>Re:Give Up</title>
	<author>Xest</author>
	<datestamp>1258118700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I actually have to agree, although I'd argue part the issue is that the person asking the question doesn't have a massively high level of technical competence if it takes them so long to solve these sorts of problem which compounds the issue.</p><p>I had the same problem with my Dad, and although it didn't take long to fix each time, it was annoying because having spent all day fixing stupid IT problems back then at work, the last thing I wanted to do when I got home was exactly the same thing.</p><p>The real solution is summed up in the parents title "Give up". I told him that it was the last time I'm going to fix it and he'd have to take it to PC World who'd charge him probably &pound;50 or more if he wanted it done after that. I explained every time that he was getting the problems because he was clicking stupid things or opening attachments he wasn't expecting or giving his e-mail address out to any web form that asked, yet only when under threat of having to pay to get the problem fixed did this actually sink in with him, because since then, he's never had a piece of Malware again.</p><p>The more you help these people, the less reason they have to pay attention and not be stupid. Force them to think for themselves or they'll simply never bother to and you'll be stuck supporting them forever.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I actually have to agree , although I 'd argue part the issue is that the person asking the question does n't have a massively high level of technical competence if it takes them so long to solve these sorts of problem which compounds the issue.I had the same problem with my Dad , and although it did n't take long to fix each time , it was annoying because having spent all day fixing stupid IT problems back then at work , the last thing I wanted to do when I got home was exactly the same thing.The real solution is summed up in the parents title " Give up " .
I told him that it was the last time I 'm going to fix it and he 'd have to take it to PC World who 'd charge him probably   50 or more if he wanted it done after that .
I explained every time that he was getting the problems because he was clicking stupid things or opening attachments he was n't expecting or giving his e-mail address out to any web form that asked , yet only when under threat of having to pay to get the problem fixed did this actually sink in with him , because since then , he 's never had a piece of Malware again.The more you help these people , the less reason they have to pay attention and not be stupid .
Force them to think for themselves or they 'll simply never bother to and you 'll be stuck supporting them forever .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I actually have to agree, although I'd argue part the issue is that the person asking the question doesn't have a massively high level of technical competence if it takes them so long to solve these sorts of problem which compounds the issue.I had the same problem with my Dad, and although it didn't take long to fix each time, it was annoying because having spent all day fixing stupid IT problems back then at work, the last thing I wanted to do when I got home was exactly the same thing.The real solution is summed up in the parents title "Give up".
I told him that it was the last time I'm going to fix it and he'd have to take it to PC World who'd charge him probably £50 or more if he wanted it done after that.
I explained every time that he was getting the problems because he was clicking stupid things or opening attachments he wasn't expecting or giving his e-mail address out to any web form that asked, yet only when under threat of having to pay to get the problem fixed did this actually sink in with him, because since then, he's never had a piece of Malware again.The more you help these people, the less reason they have to pay attention and not be stupid.
Force them to think for themselves or they'll simply never bother to and you'll be stuck supporting them forever.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074674</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30089454</id>
	<title>Disk Image</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258139880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Set up their machine make setup a separate partition for data only and one for the OS.<br>Setup a backup of the data partition to run to an external drive on a regular schedule (COMODO Backup is quite good at this and is free for personal use)<br>Once everything is setup properly, image the OS partition and save the image to a set of DVD's (once tested)<br>If anything goes wrong reinstall the image back to the OS partition and Run a virus scanon the data partition (once virus database has been re-updated and before you open any files on the data partition).<br>If what they,ve done causes the data to disappear too, then tell that why and tough unless they listened to you and regularly did backups to an external drive).<br>Thats my strategy anyway and it has worked flawlessly for the past 10 years &#166;\</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Set up their machine make setup a separate partition for data only and one for the OS.Setup a backup of the data partition to run to an external drive on a regular schedule ( COMODO Backup is quite good at this and is free for personal use ) Once everything is setup properly , image the OS partition and save the image to a set of DVD 's ( once tested ) If anything goes wrong reinstall the image back to the OS partition and Run a virus scanon the data partition ( once virus database has been re-updated and before you open any files on the data partition ) .If what they,ve done causes the data to disappear too , then tell that why and tough unless they listened to you and regularly did backups to an external drive ) .Thats my strategy anyway and it has worked flawlessly for the past 10 years   \</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Set up their machine make setup a separate partition for data only and one for the OS.Setup a backup of the data partition to run to an external drive on a regular schedule (COMODO Backup is quite good at this and is free for personal use)Once everything is setup properly, image the OS partition and save the image to a set of DVD's (once tested)If anything goes wrong reinstall the image back to the OS partition and Run a virus scanon the data partition (once virus database has been re-updated and before you open any files on the data partition).If what they,ve done causes the data to disappear too, then tell that why and tough unless they listened to you and regularly did backups to an external drive).Thats my strategy anyway and it has worked flawlessly for the past 10 years ¦\</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075390</id>
	<title>Re:Simple economics:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258051380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been charging my in-laws (who both run home buisnesses) $35 an hour to fix and repair their computer.  Very quickly they changed from calling me to help them get connected to a wireless network at 11 pm.  And it only cost them about $350.  FYI I billed them for the full hour even if it was a 15-20 min fix.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been charging my in-laws ( who both run home buisnesses ) $ 35 an hour to fix and repair their computer .
Very quickly they changed from calling me to help them get connected to a wireless network at 11 pm .
And it only cost them about $ 350 .
FYI I billed them for the full hour even if it was a 15-20 min fix .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been charging my in-laws (who both run home buisnesses) $35 an hour to fix and repair their computer.
Very quickly they changed from calling me to help them get connected to a wireless network at 11 pm.
And it only cost them about $350.
FYI I billed them for the full hour even if it was a 15-20 min fix.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074842</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076314</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>jeoeoeoeorb</author>
	<datestamp>1258054320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Try MS SteadyState</p><p>http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/sharedaccess/default.mspx</p></div><p>and better yet:

in addition to just using SteadyState on the whole disk, make regedits to keep 'Documents and Settings' on a separate partition where SteaedyState is off so the users can actually save something to their hard drive that won't be lost on a reboot, which IMHO is much more useful.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Try MS SteadyStatehttp : //www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/sharedaccess/default.mspxand better yet : in addition to just using SteadyState on the whole disk , make regedits to keep 'Documents and Settings ' on a separate partition where SteaedyState is off so the users can actually save something to their hard drive that wo n't be lost on a reboot , which IMHO is much more useful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try MS SteadyStatehttp://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/sharedaccess/default.mspxand better yet:

in addition to just using SteadyState on the whole disk, make regedits to keep 'Documents and Settings' on a separate partition where SteaedyState is off so the users can actually save something to their hard drive that won't be lost on a reboot, which IMHO is much more useful.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074676</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078620</id>
	<title>I have same problem</title>
	<author>hesaigo999ca</author>
	<datestamp>1258019280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The way i have been successful (somewhat) at getting my family to understand simple principles of habits on a pc,<br>is to compare it to a car.</p><p>You never would get into a car without a license, someone could stop you and this woudl get you a ticket,<br>dont go without AV software, cause you ll get stopped by your ISP if ever you get a malware and spam too much.<br>Also when you get into a car after driving lessons, you understand much more the techniques used in certain<br>emergency cases...uphill parking you turn you wheels against the curb to give extra parking stability...<br>same thing, when you are using your pc, and recognize telltale signs for infection, you know what to do in that situation...or what to look for...etc...</p><p>The analogies go on, I have yet to compile a list, but found it the closest quick IMPORTANT attention getter way to drive the point across. My granddad now uses AV app with his pc, and hasnt had a single problem especially not that it blocks everything<br>and lets him know, and he actually takes the time to go read up on the pop up messages sent by the AV software.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The way i have been successful ( somewhat ) at getting my family to understand simple principles of habits on a pc,is to compare it to a car.You never would get into a car without a license , someone could stop you and this woudl get you a ticket,dont go without AV software , cause you ll get stopped by your ISP if ever you get a malware and spam too much.Also when you get into a car after driving lessons , you understand much more the techniques used in certainemergency cases...uphill parking you turn you wheels against the curb to give extra parking stability...same thing , when you are using your pc , and recognize telltale signs for infection , you know what to do in that situation...or what to look for...etc...The analogies go on , I have yet to compile a list , but found it the closest quick IMPORTANT attention getter way to drive the point across .
My granddad now uses AV app with his pc , and hasnt had a single problem especially not that it blocks everythingand lets him know , and he actually takes the time to go read up on the pop up messages sent by the AV software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The way i have been successful (somewhat) at getting my family to understand simple principles of habits on a pc,is to compare it to a car.You never would get into a car without a license, someone could stop you and this woudl get you a ticket,dont go without AV software, cause you ll get stopped by your ISP if ever you get a malware and spam too much.Also when you get into a car after driving lessons, you understand much more the techniques used in certainemergency cases...uphill parking you turn you wheels against the curb to give extra parking stability...same thing, when you are using your pc, and recognize telltale signs for infection, you know what to do in that situation...or what to look for...etc...The analogies go on, I have yet to compile a list, but found it the closest quick IMPORTANT attention getter way to drive the point across.
My granddad now uses AV app with his pc, and hasnt had a single problem especially not that it blocks everythingand lets him know, and he actually takes the time to go read up on the pop up messages sent by the AV software.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30079454</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>noidentity</author>
	<datestamp>1258022280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The only reason why she [girlfriend] did vet school instead of med school (truth be known vet school is more difficult to get into) is because she likes animals better than people.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>Hmmm, I can't say I see long-term prospects in your relationship with your girlfriend...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only reason why she [ girlfriend ] did vet school instead of med school ( truth be known vet school is more difficult to get into ) is because she likes animals better than people .
Hmmm , I ca n't say I see long-term prospects in your relationship with your girlfriend.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only reason why she [girlfriend] did vet school instead of med school (truth be known vet school is more difficult to get into) is because she likes animals better than people.
Hmmm, I can't say I see long-term prospects in your relationship with your girlfriend...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074698</id>
	<title>I wouldn't bother.</title>
	<author>daid303</author>
	<datestamp>1258049580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wouldn't bother trying to explain it, because they don't care. You'll fix it for them and that's enough. First you need to stop/reduce your fixing effort.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would n't bother trying to explain it , because they do n't care .
You 'll fix it for them and that 's enough .
First you need to stop/reduce your fixing effort .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wouldn't bother trying to explain it, because they don't care.
You'll fix it for them and that's enough.
First you need to stop/reduce your fixing effort.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076184</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>profplump</author>
	<datestamp>1258053900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>unless the person you're installing it for only wants email and to occasionally surf some websites. </p></div><p>So the proposed solution would only work for 80\% of clueless home users. You're right, that's totally impractical.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>unless the person you 're installing it for only wants email and to occasionally surf some websites .
So the proposed solution would only work for 80 \ % of clueless home users .
You 're right , that 's totally impractical .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>unless the person you're installing it for only wants email and to occasionally surf some websites.
So the proposed solution would only work for 80\% of clueless home users.
You're right, that's totally impractical.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074886</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075520</id>
	<title>LiveCDs</title>
	<author>rwa2</author>
	<datestamp>1258051740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't have as much trouble with my family's computers... maybe you just need to tell them to stop surfing pr0n sites<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</p><p>But if they insist, just stick a Linux LiveCD in their box "until you get around to fixing windows".  And let them know they can surf all the (legal) p0rn they like with it with little repercussion<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</p><p>My current favorite is Linux Mint : <a href="http://www.linuxmint.com/" title="linuxmint.com">http://www.linuxmint.com/</a> [linuxmint.com]    It's based on Ubuntu, but they're a bit less shy about including non-free software such as Flash and proprietary video drivers by default.</p><p>If they like it, you can also create a USB drive version of it so they can carry their changes (updated software and files) around with them.  If they still manage to break it, you can simply copy over the casper-rw file over again with an empty version (or from the last working backup)<br><a href="http://www.pendrivelinux.com/create-a-linux-mint-7-usb-flash-drive-from-cd/" title="pendrivelinux.com">http://www.pendrivelinux.com/create-a-linux-mint-7-usb-flash-drive-from-cd/</a> [pendrivelinux.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't have as much trouble with my family 's computers... maybe you just need to tell them to stop surfing pr0n sites : PBut if they insist , just stick a Linux LiveCD in their box " until you get around to fixing windows " .
And let them know they can surf all the ( legal ) p0rn they like with it with little repercussion : PMy current favorite is Linux Mint : http : //www.linuxmint.com/ [ linuxmint.com ] It 's based on Ubuntu , but they 're a bit less shy about including non-free software such as Flash and proprietary video drivers by default.If they like it , you can also create a USB drive version of it so they can carry their changes ( updated software and files ) around with them .
If they still manage to break it , you can simply copy over the casper-rw file over again with an empty version ( or from the last working backup ) http : //www.pendrivelinux.com/create-a-linux-mint-7-usb-flash-drive-from-cd/ [ pendrivelinux.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't have as much trouble with my family's computers... maybe you just need to tell them to stop surfing pr0n sites :PBut if they insist, just stick a Linux LiveCD in their box "until you get around to fixing windows".
And let them know they can surf all the (legal) p0rn they like with it with little repercussion :PMy current favorite is Linux Mint : http://www.linuxmint.com/ [linuxmint.com]    It's based on Ubuntu, but they're a bit less shy about including non-free software such as Flash and proprietary video drivers by default.If they like it, you can also create a USB drive version of it so they can carry their changes (updated software and files) around with them.
If they still manage to break it, you can simply copy over the casper-rw file over again with an empty version (or from the last working backup)http://www.pendrivelinux.com/create-a-linux-mint-7-usb-flash-drive-from-cd/ [pendrivelinux.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076940</id>
	<title>Re:Give Up</title>
	<author>giorgiofr</author>
	<datestamp>1258056420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>People like you &amp; I have, through years of internet use, developed a sixth sense for "good" vs "bad" on the internet, but you can't teach an average person how to identify a "bad" download.</p></div><p>And that is the reason why you scare them shitless with horror stories about stolen identitites, their computer being used as a tool for criminal activities, their data being destroyed, etc. And it's not like you have to make this stuff up!<br>My gf always asks me before she runs unusual programs or downloads stuff from the web. Now, either I know what it is and tell her if she should run the program or not, or she waits until I go to her place and check it out personally. The poor thing is holding out on a frigging Live Messenger update... all it took was a hard drive crash, me restoring all of her stuff from backups in the span of an evening, and she now follows every advice I have on using PCs religiously.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>People like you &amp; I have , through years of internet use , developed a sixth sense for " good " vs " bad " on the internet , but you ca n't teach an average person how to identify a " bad " download.And that is the reason why you scare them shitless with horror stories about stolen identitites , their computer being used as a tool for criminal activities , their data being destroyed , etc .
And it 's not like you have to make this stuff up ! My gf always asks me before she runs unusual programs or downloads stuff from the web .
Now , either I know what it is and tell her if she should run the program or not , or she waits until I go to her place and check it out personally .
The poor thing is holding out on a frigging Live Messenger update... all it took was a hard drive crash , me restoring all of her stuff from backups in the span of an evening , and she now follows every advice I have on using PCs religiously .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People like you &amp; I have, through years of internet use, developed a sixth sense for "good" vs "bad" on the internet, but you can't teach an average person how to identify a "bad" download.And that is the reason why you scare them shitless with horror stories about stolen identitites, their computer being used as a tool for criminal activities, their data being destroyed, etc.
And it's not like you have to make this stuff up!My gf always asks me before she runs unusual programs or downloads stuff from the web.
Now, either I know what it is and tell her if she should run the program or not, or she waits until I go to her place and check it out personally.
The poor thing is holding out on a frigging Live Messenger update... all it took was a hard drive crash, me restoring all of her stuff from backups in the span of an evening, and she now follows every advice I have on using PCs religiously.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075378</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076054</id>
	<title>Re:Tell them to stop using Windows</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258053480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This has been covered so many times here.</p><p>Seriously, no, Linux is probably not the answer. For one specific user, maybe, but since there are multiple users across age groups, then probably no.</p><p>And seriously, yes, there are things that you can't do on Linux in the way that the users are used to....which in the real world is all that matters.</p><p>So unless you can assure him that he won't get calls about Quicken, or some website that won't do some crap, or iTunes, or Photoshop, or that there is a driver written for some new, or old, h/w they want to use, you haven't solved his problem. You've just changed the nature of the calls he'll get.</p><p>Linux is an alternative that comes with changes that will most likely not be welcome.</p><p>I manage datacenters now and I use whatever OS works for the job. My desktop teams support Windows, Macs, and Linux, whatever the user needs to do their work. There is no ideology in this reply, it's not intended to be flame bait.</p><p>I'm just pointing out that your suggestion probably wont' solve his problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This has been covered so many times here.Seriously , no , Linux is probably not the answer .
For one specific user , maybe , but since there are multiple users across age groups , then probably no.And seriously , yes , there are things that you ca n't do on Linux in the way that the users are used to....which in the real world is all that matters.So unless you can assure him that he wo n't get calls about Quicken , or some website that wo n't do some crap , or iTunes , or Photoshop , or that there is a driver written for some new , or old , h/w they want to use , you have n't solved his problem .
You 've just changed the nature of the calls he 'll get.Linux is an alternative that comes with changes that will most likely not be welcome.I manage datacenters now and I use whatever OS works for the job .
My desktop teams support Windows , Macs , and Linux , whatever the user needs to do their work .
There is no ideology in this reply , it 's not intended to be flame bait.I 'm just pointing out that your suggestion probably wont ' solve his problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This has been covered so many times here.Seriously, no, Linux is probably not the answer.
For one specific user, maybe, but since there are multiple users across age groups, then probably no.And seriously, yes, there are things that you can't do on Linux in the way that the users are used to....which in the real world is all that matters.So unless you can assure him that he won't get calls about Quicken, or some website that won't do some crap, or iTunes, or Photoshop, or that there is a driver written for some new, or old, h/w they want to use, you haven't solved his problem.
You've just changed the nature of the calls he'll get.Linux is an alternative that comes with changes that will most likely not be welcome.I manage datacenters now and I use whatever OS works for the job.
My desktop teams support Windows, Macs, and Linux, whatever the user needs to do their work.
There is no ideology in this reply, it's not intended to be flame bait.I'm just pointing out that your suggestion probably wont' solve his problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074724</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30083984</id>
	<title>easy solution</title>
	<author>eeikka</author>
	<datestamp>1258053360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sorry for not answering on your query about good ideas on how to educate your non tech family. Instead here's what i've done in somewhat similiar situations. (When I've found that teaching how stuff works or what is bad or not does not really help more than trying to fill up well by carrying water all over again.)

Set up the system so that one partition does have only operation system installed, other partition(s) have remaining data, and have a image copy of that OS partition, so when they mess up their comps, recover the system from that image file. This way it takes much much less time to have the computer working again.

Hope this helps</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry for not answering on your query about good ideas on how to educate your non tech family .
Instead here 's what i 've done in somewhat similiar situations .
( When I 've found that teaching how stuff works or what is bad or not does not really help more than trying to fill up well by carrying water all over again .
) Set up the system so that one partition does have only operation system installed , other partition ( s ) have remaining data , and have a image copy of that OS partition , so when they mess up their comps , recover the system from that image file .
This way it takes much much less time to have the computer working again .
Hope this helps</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry for not answering on your query about good ideas on how to educate your non tech family.
Instead here's what i've done in somewhat similiar situations.
(When I've found that teaching how stuff works or what is bad or not does not really help more than trying to fill up well by carrying water all over again.
)

Set up the system so that one partition does have only operation system installed, other partition(s) have remaining data, and have a image copy of that OS partition, so when they mess up their comps, recover the system from that image file.
This way it takes much much less time to have the computer working again.
Hope this helps</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30079542</id>
	<title>Re:Correct User Access</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258022520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What about Google Chrome? Isn't that installed into your AppData folder?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What about Google Chrome ?
Is n't that installed into your AppData folder ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What about Google Chrome?
Isn't that installed into your AppData folder?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075546</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076142</id>
	<title>user accounts</title>
	<author>Dale512</author>
	<datestamp>1258053720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I locked my parents' computer down to a user account only.  The amount of trips I've had to make to fix it since then have drastically been reduced.  I do have to remote in and install something every now and then for her, but I can then make sure they don't end up with toolbars and other crap.

Two weeks after I did this my mom called and wanted me "to install facebook."  While I found this funny and explained to her it was a webpage that didn't need to be installed, she actually had a file she got emailed called install\_facebook.exe she was trying to run.  I am so glad I had locked it down to not allow her to install anything.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I locked my parents ' computer down to a user account only .
The amount of trips I 've had to make to fix it since then have drastically been reduced .
I do have to remote in and install something every now and then for her , but I can then make sure they do n't end up with toolbars and other crap .
Two weeks after I did this my mom called and wanted me " to install facebook .
" While I found this funny and explained to her it was a webpage that did n't need to be installed , she actually had a file she got emailed called install \ _facebook.exe she was trying to run .
I am so glad I had locked it down to not allow her to install anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I locked my parents' computer down to a user account only.
The amount of trips I've had to make to fix it since then have drastically been reduced.
I do have to remote in and install something every now and then for her, but I can then make sure they don't end up with toolbars and other crap.
Two weeks after I did this my mom called and wanted me "to install facebook.
"  While I found this funny and explained to her it was a webpage that didn't need to be installed, she actually had a file she got emailed called install\_facebook.exe she was trying to run.
I am so glad I had locked it down to not allow her to install anything.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30080268</id>
	<title>Set it up then leave them to it</title>
	<author>DaveGod</author>
	<datestamp>1258024920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Set it up with the essential programs including Firefox and plugins. Install Adblock. Apply your hosts file. Set up the firewall. Install antivirus set to automatically update and quick scan daily, automatically fixing any problems it encounters. Set Windows, Java, Adobe (Reader and Flash), Quicktime and so on to automatically download and install updates. Arrange an appropriately frequent automatic backup of the My Documents folder (exclude Videos and Music if using a thumbdrive). Uninstall Outlook and tell them to use web based email. </p><p>Image the drive.</p><p>Now leave them to it. Do not feel obliged to solve their problems a the drop of the hat. I don't mean to be unreasonable, but rather to apply reason! As always, using a car analogy can make the situation clear. What action would you take if the problem was with their car? People tend to completely exaggerate computer problems in scope, importance and immediacy - like you have to come over RIGHT NOW because they can't play a flash video. Talk through how important the problem is and when they really need it to be fixed by and then schedule it at your convenience, as if you were going to fix their car.</p><p>People have this weird void when it comes to computers. Smart, sensible people cannot figure out silly things like checking the cable is plugged in when the keyboard doesn't work. The same person will call me and complain like it's my fault when their computer I advised them against (and subsequently never touched) has a problem, yet they will offer an evening of beer, pizza and movies if I help decorate, or offer to pay me to help them with their tax return. </p><p>I once spent 3 hours fixing a flatmates computer (including donating a RAM stick) and just as I was finishing he went into the kitchen to make a cup of tea, came back and complained it was my turn to do the dishes. </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Set it up with the essential programs including Firefox and plugins .
Install Adblock .
Apply your hosts file .
Set up the firewall .
Install antivirus set to automatically update and quick scan daily , automatically fixing any problems it encounters .
Set Windows , Java , Adobe ( Reader and Flash ) , Quicktime and so on to automatically download and install updates .
Arrange an appropriately frequent automatic backup of the My Documents folder ( exclude Videos and Music if using a thumbdrive ) .
Uninstall Outlook and tell them to use web based email .
Image the drive.Now leave them to it .
Do not feel obliged to solve their problems a the drop of the hat .
I do n't mean to be unreasonable , but rather to apply reason !
As always , using a car analogy can make the situation clear .
What action would you take if the problem was with their car ?
People tend to completely exaggerate computer problems in scope , importance and immediacy - like you have to come over RIGHT NOW because they ca n't play a flash video .
Talk through how important the problem is and when they really need it to be fixed by and then schedule it at your convenience , as if you were going to fix their car.People have this weird void when it comes to computers .
Smart , sensible people can not figure out silly things like checking the cable is plugged in when the keyboard does n't work .
The same person will call me and complain like it 's my fault when their computer I advised them against ( and subsequently never touched ) has a problem , yet they will offer an evening of beer , pizza and movies if I help decorate , or offer to pay me to help them with their tax return .
I once spent 3 hours fixing a flatmates computer ( including donating a RAM stick ) and just as I was finishing he went into the kitchen to make a cup of tea , came back and complained it was my turn to do the dishes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Set it up with the essential programs including Firefox and plugins.
Install Adblock.
Apply your hosts file.
Set up the firewall.
Install antivirus set to automatically update and quick scan daily, automatically fixing any problems it encounters.
Set Windows, Java, Adobe (Reader and Flash), Quicktime and so on to automatically download and install updates.
Arrange an appropriately frequent automatic backup of the My Documents folder (exclude Videos and Music if using a thumbdrive).
Uninstall Outlook and tell them to use web based email.
Image the drive.Now leave them to it.
Do not feel obliged to solve their problems a the drop of the hat.
I don't mean to be unreasonable, but rather to apply reason!
As always, using a car analogy can make the situation clear.
What action would you take if the problem was with their car?
People tend to completely exaggerate computer problems in scope, importance and immediacy - like you have to come over RIGHT NOW because they can't play a flash video.
Talk through how important the problem is and when they really need it to be fixed by and then schedule it at your convenience, as if you were going to fix their car.People have this weird void when it comes to computers.
Smart, sensible people cannot figure out silly things like checking the cable is plugged in when the keyboard doesn't work.
The same person will call me and complain like it's my fault when their computer I advised them against (and subsequently never touched) has a problem, yet they will offer an evening of beer, pizza and movies if I help decorate, or offer to pay me to help them with their tax return.
I once spent 3 hours fixing a flatmates computer (including donating a RAM stick) and just as I was finishing he went into the kitchen to make a cup of tea, came back and complained it was my turn to do the dishes. </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077110</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>snspdaarf</author>
	<datestamp>1258056960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well, the first time I refer to my mother as "shithead" will most likely be the last time I ever do <i>anything</i>.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , the first time I refer to my mother as " shithead " will most likely be the last time I ever do anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, the first time I refer to my mother as "shithead" will most likely be the last time I ever do anything.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075862</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30087214</id>
	<title>2 Solutions</title>
	<author>SonicTheDeadFrog</author>
	<datestamp>1258129920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>As far as educating your family, experience has taught me that the majority of people who don't understand technology either don't want to, or aren't willing to spend the time it takes to learn.

I *mostly* solved this exact problem for myself about 2 years ago.  I tried two different methods, both of which worked to some degree.

The first method I tried was simply denying them administrative access to the machines.  This is somewhat easy on XP because any software they use that normally requires admin access can be allowed to run without it by opening up only the specific file/directory and registry entries used the by the application and nothing else.  In Vista it is a different story because the OS "believes" an application needs admin access even though all of the things it wants to access are open to that user.

The second method was to install a Linux distro.  Since the user is clueless about the operation of the OS in either case, better to run one with more security and less malware targeted at it.  This is really a variation on the first method, because, again, I don't give root access to the user.  It is not without its drawbacks - this may be due to the distro I chose (openSuSE 10.3) but it has not been the easiest thing to maintain.  Compatibility issues with glibc were never solved before the distro was abandoned so VLC died the death when I upgraded it to 1.0 and there was no going back because videolan.org removed the old packages that work.  That's just one example, but numerous things like that have come up.

Neither of these methods is really viable from a business standpoint - like if you're operating a computer repair service out of your house, but for family they work great.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As far as educating your family , experience has taught me that the majority of people who do n't understand technology either do n't want to , or are n't willing to spend the time it takes to learn .
I * mostly * solved this exact problem for myself about 2 years ago .
I tried two different methods , both of which worked to some degree .
The first method I tried was simply denying them administrative access to the machines .
This is somewhat easy on XP because any software they use that normally requires admin access can be allowed to run without it by opening up only the specific file/directory and registry entries used the by the application and nothing else .
In Vista it is a different story because the OS " believes " an application needs admin access even though all of the things it wants to access are open to that user .
The second method was to install a Linux distro .
Since the user is clueless about the operation of the OS in either case , better to run one with more security and less malware targeted at it .
This is really a variation on the first method , because , again , I do n't give root access to the user .
It is not without its drawbacks - this may be due to the distro I chose ( openSuSE 10.3 ) but it has not been the easiest thing to maintain .
Compatibility issues with glibc were never solved before the distro was abandoned so VLC died the death when I upgraded it to 1.0 and there was no going back because videolan.org removed the old packages that work .
That 's just one example , but numerous things like that have come up .
Neither of these methods is really viable from a business standpoint - like if you 're operating a computer repair service out of your house , but for family they work great .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As far as educating your family, experience has taught me that the majority of people who don't understand technology either don't want to, or aren't willing to spend the time it takes to learn.
I *mostly* solved this exact problem for myself about 2 years ago.
I tried two different methods, both of which worked to some degree.
The first method I tried was simply denying them administrative access to the machines.
This is somewhat easy on XP because any software they use that normally requires admin access can be allowed to run without it by opening up only the specific file/directory and registry entries used the by the application and nothing else.
In Vista it is a different story because the OS "believes" an application needs admin access even though all of the things it wants to access are open to that user.
The second method was to install a Linux distro.
Since the user is clueless about the operation of the OS in either case, better to run one with more security and less malware targeted at it.
This is really a variation on the first method, because, again, I don't give root access to the user.
It is not without its drawbacks - this may be due to the distro I chose (openSuSE 10.3) but it has not been the easiest thing to maintain.
Compatibility issues with glibc were never solved before the distro was abandoned so VLC died the death when I upgraded it to 1.0 and there was no going back because videolan.org removed the old packages that work.
That's just one example, but numerous things like that have come up.
Neither of these methods is really viable from a business standpoint - like if you're operating a computer repair service out of your house, but for family they work great.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30099476</id>
	<title>Better external protection</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258227540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>sounds like you need to get a better firewall, you should be able to put something in place that has good locks and limits to keep them safe from malicious sites and downloads without being totally obtrusive.. i mean think about it, spend a week or so setting up a good powerful linux firewall that has the ability to block certain domains or can even contact a blacklist and stay updated while also scanning incoming packets for viruses.  Its really a win, win. I know your pain all too well being family tech support is deffinately a pain.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>sounds like you need to get a better firewall , you should be able to put something in place that has good locks and limits to keep them safe from malicious sites and downloads without being totally obtrusive.. i mean think about it , spend a week or so setting up a good powerful linux firewall that has the ability to block certain domains or can even contact a blacklist and stay updated while also scanning incoming packets for viruses .
Its really a win , win .
I know your pain all too well being family tech support is deffinately a pain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>sounds like you need to get a better firewall, you should be able to put something in place that has good locks and limits to keep them safe from malicious sites and downloads without being totally obtrusive.. i mean think about it, spend a week or so setting up a good powerful linux firewall that has the ability to block certain domains or can even contact a blacklist and stay updated while also scanning incoming packets for viruses.
Its really a win, win.
I know your pain all too well being family tech support is deffinately a pain.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076844</id>
	<title>A different view.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258056060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Look maybe this is a bad way to look @ it but I am a network admin.  I will not let my family do anything on there own computers.  I have VNC running on all their boxes and I set them up with windows permissions that don't let them do a whole lot.  If you don't want a domain controller; use the local permissions.  If you have to be a network admin than be a network admin.  take away all the stuff that they can use to screw things up it is that simple</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Look maybe this is a bad way to look @ it but I am a network admin .
I will not let my family do anything on there own computers .
I have VNC running on all their boxes and I set them up with windows permissions that do n't let them do a whole lot .
If you do n't want a domain controller ; use the local permissions .
If you have to be a network admin than be a network admin .
take away all the stuff that they can use to screw things up it is that simple</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look maybe this is a bad way to look @ it but I am a network admin.
I will not let my family do anything on there own computers.
I have VNC running on all their boxes and I set them up with windows permissions that don't let them do a whole lot.
If you don't want a domain controller; use the local permissions.
If you have to be a network admin than be a network admin.
take away all the stuff that they can use to screw things up it is that simple</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077006</id>
	<title>You've done this how many times??</title>
	<author>zzsmirkzz</author>
	<datestamp>1258056660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm surprised that this number is more than 1. After the first time reinstalling a friend/relatives PC to its' initial usable, I pull out my USB HD and a Ghost boot disk and immediately make an image. If they have problems that are unrecoverable again, I pull out the drive and let ghost do its work for an 1 or 2 and Viola, brand new pristine machine, the only thing left to do is install the latest updates, and any other new software they are using and update my image for next time.

If they have lots of documents, videos, etc. that they want to keep, I suggest they put it all under "My Documents" (so its easy for me to find and backup prior to re-imaging the drive). I have demonstrated that this is easy to do that a couple of them have acquired their own USB HD and handle this on their own now.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm surprised that this number is more than 1 .
After the first time reinstalling a friend/relatives PC to its ' initial usable , I pull out my USB HD and a Ghost boot disk and immediately make an image .
If they have problems that are unrecoverable again , I pull out the drive and let ghost do its work for an 1 or 2 and Viola , brand new pristine machine , the only thing left to do is install the latest updates , and any other new software they are using and update my image for next time .
If they have lots of documents , videos , etc .
that they want to keep , I suggest they put it all under " My Documents " ( so its easy for me to find and backup prior to re-imaging the drive ) .
I have demonstrated that this is easy to do that a couple of them have acquired their own USB HD and handle this on their own now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm surprised that this number is more than 1.
After the first time reinstalling a friend/relatives PC to its' initial usable, I pull out my USB HD and a Ghost boot disk and immediately make an image.
If they have problems that are unrecoverable again, I pull out the drive and let ghost do its work for an 1 or 2 and Viola, brand new pristine machine, the only thing left to do is install the latest updates, and any other new software they are using and update my image for next time.
If they have lots of documents, videos, etc.
that they want to keep, I suggest they put it all under "My Documents" (so its easy for me to find and backup prior to re-imaging the drive).
I have demonstrated that this is easy to do that a couple of them have acquired their own USB HD and handle this on their own now.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076546</id>
	<title>Use Limited Accounts</title>
	<author>apatrick</author>
	<datestamp>1258054980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>At the risk of promoting my own work... I recently started <a href="http://netsafetyguide.com/" title="netsafetyguide.com" rel="nofollow">http://netsafetyguide.com/</a> [netsafetyguide.com] to address these kinds of situations. The goal of the site is to offer down-to-earth, practical news and tips about Internet safety and security.

One of the tips that you will find there is to use limited (non-administrator) accounts for the untrained/uninterested users. Moving my teenagers to these accounts greatly reduced my frequency of reformats.</htmltext>
<tokenext>At the risk of promoting my own work... I recently started http : //netsafetyguide.com/ [ netsafetyguide.com ] to address these kinds of situations .
The goal of the site is to offer down-to-earth , practical news and tips about Internet safety and security .
One of the tips that you will find there is to use limited ( non-administrator ) accounts for the untrained/uninterested users .
Moving my teenagers to these accounts greatly reduced my frequency of reformats .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At the risk of promoting my own work... I recently started http://netsafetyguide.com/ [netsafetyguide.com] to address these kinds of situations.
The goal of the site is to offer down-to-earth, practical news and tips about Internet safety and security.
One of the tips that you will find there is to use limited (non-administrator) accounts for the untrained/uninterested users.
Moving my teenagers to these accounts greatly reduced my frequency of reformats.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30086802</id>
	<title>Worst Case Scenario</title>
	<author>xactuary</author>
	<datestamp>1258127880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>If I may, here's a story about fault tolerance in the mac. I do general hourly fee consulting on windows and mac. Once I went to a 70+ year-old woman's home to help her with her mac which "had recently begun to run slow." It was an iBook G3 (many, many years old) with 256 MB of RAM. When I arrived I learned that since buying the mac the woman had never shut it down and restarted; never closed an application; never emptied the trash; and never performed an Apple Update. It was slow but still usable, which blew my mind.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If I may , here 's a story about fault tolerance in the mac .
I do general hourly fee consulting on windows and mac .
Once I went to a 70 + year-old woman 's home to help her with her mac which " had recently begun to run slow .
" It was an iBook G3 ( many , many years old ) with 256 MB of RAM .
When I arrived I learned that since buying the mac the woman had never shut it down and restarted ; never closed an application ; never emptied the trash ; and never performed an Apple Update .
It was slow but still usable , which blew my mind .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I may, here's a story about fault tolerance in the mac.
I do general hourly fee consulting on windows and mac.
Once I went to a 70+ year-old woman's home to help her with her mac which "had recently begun to run slow.
" It was an iBook G3 (many, many years old) with 256 MB of RAM.
When I arrived I learned that since buying the mac the woman had never shut it down and restarted; never closed an application; never emptied the trash; and never performed an Apple Update.
It was slow but still usable, which blew my mind.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075664</id>
	<title>Re:Correct User Access</title>
	<author>gknoy</author>
	<datestamp>1258052160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would also suggest that once you've installed the major software that they need, and they've been able to do some initial user preferences configuration, that you use a tool like Ghost to image the drive.  This way, if things DO end up getting pooched, you can relatively easily blow away the drive and reinstall.  Easily compared to the hassle of finding and configuring all one's drivers, software, tools, and preferences.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would also suggest that once you 've installed the major software that they need , and they 've been able to do some initial user preferences configuration , that you use a tool like Ghost to image the drive .
This way , if things DO end up getting pooched , you can relatively easily blow away the drive and reinstall .
Easily compared to the hassle of finding and configuring all one 's drivers , software , tools , and preferences .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would also suggest that once you've installed the major software that they need, and they've been able to do some initial user preferences configuration, that you use a tool like Ghost to image the drive.
This way, if things DO end up getting pooched, you can relatively easily blow away the drive and reinstall.
Easily compared to the hassle of finding and configuring all one's drivers, software, tools, and preferences.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078796</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258019940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had the same issue.   I was forced to reformat and do a fresh install every 12 months.</p><p>Finally I did a fresh install with all the software they use (itunes, messenger, firefox, etc).  Then I made them use the GUEST account.  Tell them they wont even need a password;  that usually makes them jump for joy.</p><p>This solved my problems.  It has been 2.5 years since the last blow-up.  I come home 3-4 times per year and remember to download/install patches.  Norton runs a full scan weekly, and no problems have been reported.</p><p>The end.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had the same issue .
I was forced to reformat and do a fresh install every 12 months.Finally I did a fresh install with all the software they use ( itunes , messenger , firefox , etc ) .
Then I made them use the GUEST account .
Tell them they wont even need a password ; that usually makes them jump for joy.This solved my problems .
It has been 2.5 years since the last blow-up .
I come home 3-4 times per year and remember to download/install patches .
Norton runs a full scan weekly , and no problems have been reported.The end .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had the same issue.
I was forced to reformat and do a fresh install every 12 months.Finally I did a fresh install with all the software they use (itunes, messenger, firefox, etc).
Then I made them use the GUEST account.
Tell them they wont even need a password;  that usually makes them jump for joy.This solved my problems.
It has been 2.5 years since the last blow-up.
I come home 3-4 times per year and remember to download/install patches.
Norton runs a full scan weekly, and no problems have been reported.The end.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078666</id>
	<title>Get them Macs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258019400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>After you get your family onto Macs, they literally stop calling you for tech support and start sending you photos and movies and Web pages they made. Macs are hackable by consumers and creatives as well as nerds. You give everyone a real shot at enjoying computing.</p><p>I don't see how you justify giving a Windows PC to anyone because of the viruses (7 runs 80\% of XP malware, which means 16,000 malwares per day for 8 years. Security researchers recommend you don't do online banking with it because it picks your pocket. You might as well give a kid a 10-inch switchblade.</p><p>Over the next few years as the Windows PC continues to fade away you're going to need to provide even more tech support, not less. I just don't get how you let your family run PC's. It's like a cruel experiment. I'm so glad the generic PC time is almost over, what a sad thing for consumers to have to go to their nerd friends for help with a decades old consumer product. Fail.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>After you get your family onto Macs , they literally stop calling you for tech support and start sending you photos and movies and Web pages they made .
Macs are hackable by consumers and creatives as well as nerds .
You give everyone a real shot at enjoying computing.I do n't see how you justify giving a Windows PC to anyone because of the viruses ( 7 runs 80 \ % of XP malware , which means 16,000 malwares per day for 8 years .
Security researchers recommend you do n't do online banking with it because it picks your pocket .
You might as well give a kid a 10-inch switchblade.Over the next few years as the Windows PC continues to fade away you 're going to need to provide even more tech support , not less .
I just do n't get how you let your family run PC 's .
It 's like a cruel experiment .
I 'm so glad the generic PC time is almost over , what a sad thing for consumers to have to go to their nerd friends for help with a decades old consumer product .
Fail .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After you get your family onto Macs, they literally stop calling you for tech support and start sending you photos and movies and Web pages they made.
Macs are hackable by consumers and creatives as well as nerds.
You give everyone a real shot at enjoying computing.I don't see how you justify giving a Windows PC to anyone because of the viruses (7 runs 80\% of XP malware, which means 16,000 malwares per day for 8 years.
Security researchers recommend you don't do online banking with it because it picks your pocket.
You might as well give a kid a 10-inch switchblade.Over the next few years as the Windows PC continues to fade away you're going to need to provide even more tech support, not less.
I just don't get how you let your family run PC's.
It's like a cruel experiment.
I'm so glad the generic PC time is almost over, what a sad thing for consumers to have to go to their nerd friends for help with a decades old consumer product.
Fail.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077064</id>
	<title>Not a fanboi, just practical</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258056780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Did that 5 years ago myself. All macs. It was the best gift to myself (that I gave them).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did that 5 years ago myself .
All macs .
It was the best gift to myself ( that I gave them ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did that 5 years ago myself.
All macs.
It was the best gift to myself (that I gave them).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075556</id>
	<title>Waaah!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258051800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If this the biggest problem in your life you've got a lot more living to do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If this the biggest problem in your life you 've got a lot more living to do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If this the biggest problem in your life you've got a lot more living to do.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074924</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>zach\_the\_lizard</author>
	<datestamp>1258050180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is what I did for my grandpa. I set it up so that I can SSH into his box wherever I happen to live, which is good for installing updates, software he doesn't have, troubleshooting, etc. I could, in theory, have him do a dist-upgrade too (this is Ubuntu), but I haven't ever tried that via long distance. Whenever I visit, if a new LTS version of Ubuntu is out, I install that on there (preserving his home partition), configure it again, and carry on for the next few years or so.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is what I did for my grandpa .
I set it up so that I can SSH into his box wherever I happen to live , which is good for installing updates , software he does n't have , troubleshooting , etc .
I could , in theory , have him do a dist-upgrade too ( this is Ubuntu ) , but I have n't ever tried that via long distance .
Whenever I visit , if a new LTS version of Ubuntu is out , I install that on there ( preserving his home partition ) , configure it again , and carry on for the next few years or so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is what I did for my grandpa.
I set it up so that I can SSH into his box wherever I happen to live, which is good for installing updates, software he doesn't have, troubleshooting, etc.
I could, in theory, have him do a dist-upgrade too (this is Ubuntu), but I haven't ever tried that via long distance.
Whenever I visit, if a new LTS version of Ubuntu is out, I install that on there (preserving his home partition), configure it again, and carry on for the next few years or so.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074684</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077948</id>
	<title>Simple</title>
	<author>crumbz</author>
	<datestamp>1258016700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Eliminate the three security flaws in your house.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Eliminate the three security flaws in your house .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Eliminate the three security flaws in your house.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075202</id>
	<title>Lessons learned from too many years in that role</title>
	<author>onyxruby</author>
	<datestamp>1258050900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've learned a lot of lessons from filling that role for too many years. Here they are:

<ul>
<li>Make a folder for all their base install sources so there is easy access to the source.</li>
<li>Teach them to download everything to a single source on the data drive to make scanning and root cause easier.</li>
<li>Make sure they have their cab files on their system.</li>
<li>When you rebuild their system seperate out their OS and Data on two seperate drives.</li>
<li>Once seperated you can then image their system and have a back of a known good state for that computer. Make sure they also have a backup.</li>
<li>Better yet, teach them how to perform their own images.</li>
<li>Ensure they one antivirus scanner and another malware scanner - not from the same company.</li>
<li>Set up automated downloads and scans.</li>
<li>Insist that they use firefox with noscript - show them how this makes browsing the web fun again without all the clutter.</li>
<li>Set up for automatic patches.</li>
</ul><p>

Their cost is a second hard drive that they pay for, typically this is well under $100. It's more work up front on this, but teaching them basic safe browsing, automating what they don't want to deal with and have an image (and the ability to freely blow away the boot drive) are all things that will save you time in spades in the long run. I've significantly reduced how often I have to perform the friends and family computer work this way, and they feel better knowing that they have regained some level of control over their computer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've learned a lot of lessons from filling that role for too many years .
Here they are : Make a folder for all their base install sources so there is easy access to the source .
Teach them to download everything to a single source on the data drive to make scanning and root cause easier .
Make sure they have their cab files on their system .
When you rebuild their system seperate out their OS and Data on two seperate drives .
Once seperated you can then image their system and have a back of a known good state for that computer .
Make sure they also have a backup .
Better yet , teach them how to perform their own images .
Ensure they one antivirus scanner and another malware scanner - not from the same company .
Set up automated downloads and scans .
Insist that they use firefox with noscript - show them how this makes browsing the web fun again without all the clutter .
Set up for automatic patches .
Their cost is a second hard drive that they pay for , typically this is well under $ 100 .
It 's more work up front on this , but teaching them basic safe browsing , automating what they do n't want to deal with and have an image ( and the ability to freely blow away the boot drive ) are all things that will save you time in spades in the long run .
I 've significantly reduced how often I have to perform the friends and family computer work this way , and they feel better knowing that they have regained some level of control over their computer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've learned a lot of lessons from filling that role for too many years.
Here they are:


Make a folder for all their base install sources so there is easy access to the source.
Teach them to download everything to a single source on the data drive to make scanning and root cause easier.
Make sure they have their cab files on their system.
When you rebuild their system seperate out their OS and Data on two seperate drives.
Once seperated you can then image their system and have a back of a known good state for that computer.
Make sure they also have a backup.
Better yet, teach them how to perform their own images.
Ensure they one antivirus scanner and another malware scanner - not from the same company.
Set up automated downloads and scans.
Insist that they use firefox with noscript - show them how this makes browsing the web fun again without all the clutter.
Set up for automatic patches.
Their cost is a second hard drive that they pay for, typically this is well under $100.
It's more work up front on this, but teaching them basic safe browsing, automating what they don't want to deal with and have an image (and the ability to freely blow away the boot drive) are all things that will save you time in spades in the long run.
I've significantly reduced how often I have to perform the friends and family computer work this way, and they feel better knowing that they have regained some level of control over their computer.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077774</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258059240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I forced my parents to switch to Ubuntu after the 2nd virus.</p><p>The only maintenance I've done since then (going on 2 years) is aptitude update;aptitude safe-upgrade</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I forced my parents to switch to Ubuntu after the 2nd virus.The only maintenance I 've done since then ( going on 2 years ) is aptitude update ; aptitude safe-upgrade</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I forced my parents to switch to Ubuntu after the 2nd virus.The only maintenance I've done since then (going on 2 years) is aptitude update;aptitude safe-upgrade</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075496</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076004</id>
	<title>Solution simple</title>
	<author>MrSmith0011000100110</author>
	<datestamp>1258053300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You want an effective way to negate this issue?  Charge them.  I was used and abused within my family and their network of friends as the "computer guy".  Until I stepped up and charged my own mother...yes I said it.  I let her and everyone else know that my time is not free and there would be a fee for me fixing everything under the sun.  Everyone started perking up their ears and taking notes when I came around from then on.  Now my family mostly runs XP and are not very savvy but they rarely have issues(that they call me on) any more.  It made me think about my brother the mechanic or my cousin the electrician.  They get the same expectations heaved on them.  It's broken, it's family, it's free  and the lesson I had to learn was that a free service was a service abused.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You want an effective way to negate this issue ?
Charge them .
I was used and abused within my family and their network of friends as the " computer guy " .
Until I stepped up and charged my own mother...yes I said it .
I let her and everyone else know that my time is not free and there would be a fee for me fixing everything under the sun .
Everyone started perking up their ears and taking notes when I came around from then on .
Now my family mostly runs XP and are not very savvy but they rarely have issues ( that they call me on ) any more .
It made me think about my brother the mechanic or my cousin the electrician .
They get the same expectations heaved on them .
It 's broken , it 's family , it 's free and the lesson I had to learn was that a free service was a service abused .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You want an effective way to negate this issue?
Charge them.
I was used and abused within my family and their network of friends as the "computer guy".
Until I stepped up and charged my own mother...yes I said it.
I let her and everyone else know that my time is not free and there would be a fee for me fixing everything under the sun.
Everyone started perking up their ears and taking notes when I came around from then on.
Now my family mostly runs XP and are not very savvy but they rarely have issues(that they call me on) any more.
It made me think about my brother the mechanic or my cousin the electrician.
They get the same expectations heaved on them.
It's broken, it's family, it's free  and the lesson I had to learn was that a free service was a service abused.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076102</id>
	<title>Recipe for success</title>
	<author>Sheik Yerbouti</author>
	<datestamp>1258053600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1 . get them Macs</p><p>2. If you choose to stay on Windows then...<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; A. Get Microsoft Security Essentials and Windows Defender on each host<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; B. Put an open source untangle firewall at the border turn on the anti virus, anti spyware, anti phishing features of untangle turn on web filtering for malware on untangle use protocol control for torrent if they pirate a lot of stuff becase most torrents also have trojans.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; C. Give them Firefox with adblock plus and noscript. Remove the IE icons.</p><p>Problem solved and you don't even have to bother them with the details FYI they don't care about the details</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
get them Macs2 .
If you choose to stay on Windows then.. .       A. Get Microsoft Security Essentials and Windows Defender on each host       B. Put an open source untangle firewall at the border turn on the anti virus , anti spyware , anti phishing features of untangle turn on web filtering for malware on untangle use protocol control for torrent if they pirate a lot of stuff becase most torrents also have trojans .
      C. Give them Firefox with adblock plus and noscript .
Remove the IE icons.Problem solved and you do n't even have to bother them with the details FYI they do n't care about the details</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1 .
get them Macs2.
If you choose to stay on Windows then...
      A. Get Microsoft Security Essentials and Windows Defender on each host
      B. Put an open source untangle firewall at the border turn on the anti virus, anti spyware, anti phishing features of untangle turn on web filtering for malware on untangle use protocol control for torrent if they pirate a lot of stuff becase most torrents also have trojans.
      C. Give them Firefox with adblock plus and noscript.
Remove the IE icons.Problem solved and you don't even have to bother them with the details FYI they don't care about the details</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078048</id>
	<title>Intstall Ubuntu, or tell them to buy a Mac</title>
	<author>Logic Worshipper</author>
	<datestamp>1258017000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If they insist on running windows put a decent anti-virus on the machine, and limit their user privileges.</p><p>If they won't let you limit their user privileges, and they won't let you install another OS, and they won't buy a Mac (which is designed to be idiot proof), quit, or make them pay you every time they break the machine until they quit breaking it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If they insist on running windows put a decent anti-virus on the machine , and limit their user privileges.If they wo n't let you limit their user privileges , and they wo n't let you install another OS , and they wo n't buy a Mac ( which is designed to be idiot proof ) , quit , or make them pay you every time they break the machine until they quit breaking it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they insist on running windows put a decent anti-virus on the machine, and limit their user privileges.If they won't let you limit their user privileges, and they won't let you install another OS, and they won't buy a Mac (which is designed to be idiot proof), quit, or make them pay you every time they break the machine until they quit breaking it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078994</id>
	<title>Re:Install Ubuntu, problem solved.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258020720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>It's not so difficult, really. Install Ubuntu 9.10.</i></p><p>Now you have two problems<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not so difficult , really .
Install Ubuntu 9.10.Now you have two problems ; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not so difficult, really.
Install Ubuntu 9.10.Now you have two problems ;-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074720</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077152</id>
	<title>Re:Get a Mac</title>
	<author>fahrvergnugen</author>
	<datestamp>1258057080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This. My 60-year-old father can tell the make and model of any car manufactured before the catalytic converter, just by hearing the sound of an engine. As a career veterinarian with 30+ years of experience and an interest in staying abreast, he is intimately familiar with the latest in small animal medicine. But when it comes to anything with transistors, he knows only the basics. He's always found them frustrating and irritating, and only started using email about 6 years ago when forced into it by an extended vacation my mother took alone. He only got a cell phone 2 years ago. I used to spend hours each month helping him maintain his slow-because-he-bought-a-P4-with-SDRAM Windows computer.

</p><p>After being fed up with years of parental support, I convinced him with much prodding this past spring that instead of an HP, he should spend a bit more to buy a refurbished aluminum iMac with a full extended warranty and a Time Capsule. I was done with limited Windows profiles, spyware,Firefox with IE skins and changed icons, and all the rest. The Mac was a great decision. He's in love with it, and my Mom is now plotting her own mac purchase.

</p><p>I spent the largest part of the two hours of setup copying files via thumb drive, configuring his Safari Top Sites page, and getting Skype turned on so he can talk to my brother in Italy. Haven't really thought about it since, but after years as a reluctant computer user, he's blossomed with the Mac. The iPod he never used to use is suddenly full of podcasts and music, and we'll talk about the Writer's Almanac show a couple of times a week. His digital camera no longer stores all of his photos for viewing on the little screen, and he doesn't go to Walgreen's to get help make prints anymore. - instead, they're in iPhoto with face tags, organized into events, and he uses his own inkjet with photo paper now. He never has to futz with the mic or camera when he's doing a video call with my siblings. He's an avid skier, so we put the snow reports for his season ticket resorts on his Dashboard, as well as the weather reports and clocks for various places around the world where we have family.

</p><p>This is turning into a Mac ad, and I didn't mean that. Clearly all of these things can be done with Windows/Linux. My point is that the right combination of technology, in my case an iMac, managed to excite my father into an interest in my own passions, while simultaneously opening up all the really cool parts of the internet to him.  And in the process, I no longer have to do any tech support for him. I don't have to worry about backups, I don't have to worry about viruses, I don't have to worry about email attachments, I don't have to worry about "How do I..." phone calls.

</p><p>Instead, we have more things to talk about, and he's able to finally use these fantastic tools from which I've made my career. So: if the technology your family is using doesn't work for them, whether they're currently on Apple, Linux, or Microsoft OS's, try a different one. It's made all the difference for me.</p><p>Caveat: I really can't recommend buying a computer without a user-serviceable hard disk unless you also buy the extended warranty. Apple wants $450 to replace the 320GB hard disk on an out-of-warranty iMac with another 320GB. I found out the hard way on my own iMac. To replace the disk in an iMac you have to remove the glass and the screen. Get dust between those two during the repair, and it's game over. This is the rare case where the warranty is money well spent.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This .
My 60-year-old father can tell the make and model of any car manufactured before the catalytic converter , just by hearing the sound of an engine .
As a career veterinarian with 30 + years of experience and an interest in staying abreast , he is intimately familiar with the latest in small animal medicine .
But when it comes to anything with transistors , he knows only the basics .
He 's always found them frustrating and irritating , and only started using email about 6 years ago when forced into it by an extended vacation my mother took alone .
He only got a cell phone 2 years ago .
I used to spend hours each month helping him maintain his slow-because-he-bought-a-P4-with-SDRAM Windows computer .
After being fed up with years of parental support , I convinced him with much prodding this past spring that instead of an HP , he should spend a bit more to buy a refurbished aluminum iMac with a full extended warranty and a Time Capsule .
I was done with limited Windows profiles , spyware,Firefox with IE skins and changed icons , and all the rest .
The Mac was a great decision .
He 's in love with it , and my Mom is now plotting her own mac purchase .
I spent the largest part of the two hours of setup copying files via thumb drive , configuring his Safari Top Sites page , and getting Skype turned on so he can talk to my brother in Italy .
Have n't really thought about it since , but after years as a reluctant computer user , he 's blossomed with the Mac .
The iPod he never used to use is suddenly full of podcasts and music , and we 'll talk about the Writer 's Almanac show a couple of times a week .
His digital camera no longer stores all of his photos for viewing on the little screen , and he does n't go to Walgreen 's to get help make prints anymore .
- instead , they 're in iPhoto with face tags , organized into events , and he uses his own inkjet with photo paper now .
He never has to futz with the mic or camera when he 's doing a video call with my siblings .
He 's an avid skier , so we put the snow reports for his season ticket resorts on his Dashboard , as well as the weather reports and clocks for various places around the world where we have family .
This is turning into a Mac ad , and I did n't mean that .
Clearly all of these things can be done with Windows/Linux .
My point is that the right combination of technology , in my case an iMac , managed to excite my father into an interest in my own passions , while simultaneously opening up all the really cool parts of the internet to him .
And in the process , I no longer have to do any tech support for him .
I do n't have to worry about backups , I do n't have to worry about viruses , I do n't have to worry about email attachments , I do n't have to worry about " How do I... " phone calls .
Instead , we have more things to talk about , and he 's able to finally use these fantastic tools from which I 've made my career .
So : if the technology your family is using does n't work for them , whether they 're currently on Apple , Linux , or Microsoft OS 's , try a different one .
It 's made all the difference for me.Caveat : I really ca n't recommend buying a computer without a user-serviceable hard disk unless you also buy the extended warranty .
Apple wants $ 450 to replace the 320GB hard disk on an out-of-warranty iMac with another 320GB .
I found out the hard way on my own iMac .
To replace the disk in an iMac you have to remove the glass and the screen .
Get dust between those two during the repair , and it 's game over .
This is the rare case where the warranty is money well spent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This.
My 60-year-old father can tell the make and model of any car manufactured before the catalytic converter, just by hearing the sound of an engine.
As a career veterinarian with 30+ years of experience and an interest in staying abreast, he is intimately familiar with the latest in small animal medicine.
But when it comes to anything with transistors, he knows only the basics.
He's always found them frustrating and irritating, and only started using email about 6 years ago when forced into it by an extended vacation my mother took alone.
He only got a cell phone 2 years ago.
I used to spend hours each month helping him maintain his slow-because-he-bought-a-P4-with-SDRAM Windows computer.
After being fed up with years of parental support, I convinced him with much prodding this past spring that instead of an HP, he should spend a bit more to buy a refurbished aluminum iMac with a full extended warranty and a Time Capsule.
I was done with limited Windows profiles, spyware,Firefox with IE skins and changed icons, and all the rest.
The Mac was a great decision.
He's in love with it, and my Mom is now plotting her own mac purchase.
I spent the largest part of the two hours of setup copying files via thumb drive, configuring his Safari Top Sites page, and getting Skype turned on so he can talk to my brother in Italy.
Haven't really thought about it since, but after years as a reluctant computer user, he's blossomed with the Mac.
The iPod he never used to use is suddenly full of podcasts and music, and we'll talk about the Writer's Almanac show a couple of times a week.
His digital camera no longer stores all of his photos for viewing on the little screen, and he doesn't go to Walgreen's to get help make prints anymore.
- instead, they're in iPhoto with face tags, organized into events, and he uses his own inkjet with photo paper now.
He never has to futz with the mic or camera when he's doing a video call with my siblings.
He's an avid skier, so we put the snow reports for his season ticket resorts on his Dashboard, as well as the weather reports and clocks for various places around the world where we have family.
This is turning into a Mac ad, and I didn't mean that.
Clearly all of these things can be done with Windows/Linux.
My point is that the right combination of technology, in my case an iMac, managed to excite my father into an interest in my own passions, while simultaneously opening up all the really cool parts of the internet to him.
And in the process, I no longer have to do any tech support for him.
I don't have to worry about backups, I don't have to worry about viruses, I don't have to worry about email attachments, I don't have to worry about "How do I..." phone calls.
Instead, we have more things to talk about, and he's able to finally use these fantastic tools from which I've made my career.
So: if the technology your family is using doesn't work for them, whether they're currently on Apple, Linux, or Microsoft OS's, try a different one.
It's made all the difference for me.Caveat: I really can't recommend buying a computer without a user-serviceable hard disk unless you also buy the extended warranty.
Apple wants $450 to replace the 320GB hard disk on an out-of-warranty iMac with another 320GB.
I found out the hard way on my own iMac.
To replace the disk in an iMac you have to remove the glass and the screen.
Get dust between those two during the repair, and it's game over.
This is the rare case where the warranty is money well spent.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074922</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30161518</id>
	<title>Re:Correct User Access</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258662360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You could change the permissions on the Firefox installation folder ( probably c:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox) to allow Authenticated Users all rights except Full Control (Matthias Minden, my coworker, suggested this to me recently, and it seems to work well).<br>Yes, your brother or malicious software could intentionally or accidentally do something bad to this folder, but probably won't !.</p><p>my 2 cents...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You could change the permissions on the Firefox installation folder ( probably c : \ Program Files \ Mozilla Firefox ) to allow Authenticated Users all rights except Full Control ( Matthias Minden , my coworker , suggested this to me recently , and it seems to work well ) .Yes , your brother or malicious software could intentionally or accidentally do something bad to this folder , but probably wo n't ! .my 2 cents.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You could change the permissions on the Firefox installation folder ( probably c:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox) to allow Authenticated Users all rights except Full Control (Matthias Minden, my coworker, suggested this to me recently, and it seems to work well).Yes, your brother or malicious software could intentionally or accidentally do something bad to this folder, but probably won't !.my 2 cents...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075546</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30080572</id>
	<title>Re:Get a Mac</title>
	<author>stewbacca</author>
	<datestamp>1258026180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Then they'll just pester you with REALLY dumb questions, like "why doesn't this file called runme.exe work on my computer?".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Then they 'll just pester you with REALLY dumb questions , like " why does n't this file called runme.exe work on my computer ?
" .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Then they'll just pester you with REALLY dumb questions, like "why doesn't this file called runme.exe work on my computer?
".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076310</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074742</id>
	<title>Revoke admin rights.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258049700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you revoke their admin rights and keep their software (acrobat, flash, java, windows) patches up to date you will reduce your clean up burden. But it comes at the cost of a maintenance burden. Pick your poison.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you revoke their admin rights and keep their software ( acrobat , flash , java , windows ) patches up to date you will reduce your clean up burden .
But it comes at the cost of a maintenance burden .
Pick your poison .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you revoke their admin rights and keep their software (acrobat, flash, java, windows) patches up to date you will reduce your clean up burden.
But it comes at the cost of a maintenance burden.
Pick your poison.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30079320</id>
	<title>I have a very simple answer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258021860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You threaten to cut them off if they don't do the following:</p><p>1. They never ignore the anti-virus you install. (So many times I see users with problems and they have an anti-virus that's disabled, or no longer updates or some shit like that).</p><p>2. They stop browsing for illegal software.</p><p>3. They stop installing any old dumb application that sounds appealing but came to them through some pop up ad or similar.</p><p>4. Ignore and not click on emails from people they don't know.</p><p>Make it clear they gotta follow those rules or they will no longer get free tech support.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You threaten to cut them off if they do n't do the following : 1 .
They never ignore the anti-virus you install .
( So many times I see users with problems and they have an anti-virus that 's disabled , or no longer updates or some shit like that ) .2 .
They stop browsing for illegal software.3 .
They stop installing any old dumb application that sounds appealing but came to them through some pop up ad or similar.4 .
Ignore and not click on emails from people they do n't know.Make it clear they got ta follow those rules or they will no longer get free tech support .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You threaten to cut them off if they don't do the following:1.
They never ignore the anti-virus you install.
(So many times I see users with problems and they have an anti-virus that's disabled, or no longer updates or some shit like that).2.
They stop browsing for illegal software.3.
They stop installing any old dumb application that sounds appealing but came to them through some pop up ad or similar.4.
Ignore and not click on emails from people they don't know.Make it clear they gotta follow those rules or they will no longer get free tech support.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075176</id>
	<title>Reinstall is NEVER required...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258050840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unless the machine won't boot to a functional desktop.  Period.  If you can't use <a href="http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653.aspx" title="microsoft.com" rel="nofollow">Process Explorer</a> [microsoft.com] and <a href="http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896645.aspx" title="microsoft.com" rel="nofollow">Process Monitor</a> [microsoft.com] to track down the problem, then you shouldn't be trying to diagnose problems on a Windows OS.  Like the poster, I've done tech support since teaching my 5th grade classmates how to format an Apple II floppy disk and worked both privately and for other companies.  I will repeat it again.  <b>If you think your only option is to re-install the OS, odds are you don't know how to fix the problem and do it in a timely fashion.</b></p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless the machine wo n't boot to a functional desktop .
Period. If you ca n't use Process Explorer [ microsoft.com ] and Process Monitor [ microsoft.com ] to track down the problem , then you should n't be trying to diagnose problems on a Windows OS .
Like the poster , I 've done tech support since teaching my 5th grade classmates how to format an Apple II floppy disk and worked both privately and for other companies .
I will repeat it again .
If you think your only option is to re-install the OS , odds are you do n't know how to fix the problem and do it in a timely fashion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unless the machine won't boot to a functional desktop.
Period.  If you can't use Process Explorer [microsoft.com] and Process Monitor [microsoft.com] to track down the problem, then you shouldn't be trying to diagnose problems on a Windows OS.
Like the poster, I've done tech support since teaching my 5th grade classmates how to format an Apple II floppy disk and worked both privately and for other companies.
I will repeat it again.
If you think your only option is to re-install the OS, odds are you don't know how to fix the problem and do it in a timely fashion.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075680</id>
	<title>Forget education.</title>
	<author>Culture20</author>
	<datestamp>1258052220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Remove their admin access.  Set auto-updates (and auto-reboots for Wednesday after patch Tuesday).  Maybe outsource to India; bad service will force them to think for themselves.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Remove their admin access .
Set auto-updates ( and auto-reboots for Wednesday after patch Tuesday ) .
Maybe outsource to India ; bad service will force them to think for themselves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Remove their admin access.
Set auto-updates (and auto-reboots for Wednesday after patch Tuesday).
Maybe outsource to India; bad service will force them to think for themselves.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075980</id>
	<title>Re:Get a Mac</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258053240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It took you two hours to upgrade ram?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It took you two hours to upgrade ram ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It took you two hours to upgrade ram?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074922</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075046</id>
	<title>Install AV/firewall</title>
	<author>Fry-kun</author>
	<datestamp>1258050420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Set them to autoupdate daily &amp; make them scan pretty much everything - email attachments, downloads..<br>It slows the computer down overall but that's the price they'll have to pay if they don't want to learn.</p><p>Of course this is in addition to warning them to check for obvious signs:<br>* who is this email really from?<br>* does the URL actually go where it pretends it will go?<br>* am I downloading from a legitimate site?<br>* did I remember to scan the file I just downloaded? -- there used to be firefox addons that did this automatically..</p><p>Installing Linux as some are suggesting works in some cases only.<br>* They won't be able to use some sites (think Silverlight)<br>* If they run programs other than standard email/browser/IM combo, it might be a problem. OpenOffice is great but not a perfect substitute for MS Office.</p><p>HTH</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Set them to autoupdate daily &amp; make them scan pretty much everything - email attachments , downloads..It slows the computer down overall but that 's the price they 'll have to pay if they do n't want to learn.Of course this is in addition to warning them to check for obvious signs : * who is this email really from ?
* does the URL actually go where it pretends it will go ?
* am I downloading from a legitimate site ?
* did I remember to scan the file I just downloaded ?
-- there used to be firefox addons that did this automatically..Installing Linux as some are suggesting works in some cases only .
* They wo n't be able to use some sites ( think Silverlight ) * If they run programs other than standard email/browser/IM combo , it might be a problem .
OpenOffice is great but not a perfect substitute for MS Office.HTH</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Set them to autoupdate daily &amp; make them scan pretty much everything - email attachments, downloads..It slows the computer down overall but that's the price they'll have to pay if they don't want to learn.Of course this is in addition to warning them to check for obvious signs:* who is this email really from?
* does the URL actually go where it pretends it will go?
* am I downloading from a legitimate site?
* did I remember to scan the file I just downloaded?
-- there used to be firefox addons that did this automatically..Installing Linux as some are suggesting works in some cases only.
* They won't be able to use some sites (think Silverlight)* If they run programs other than standard email/browser/IM combo, it might be a problem.
OpenOffice is great but not a perfect substitute for MS Office.HTH</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076458</id>
	<title>Create an incentive...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258054680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's been said elsewhere here, but I'll repeat and try to add my own perspective.</p><p>You have to create an incentive for them to change their behaviour.  If everytime I forgot to put oil in my car and it broke down, my mechanic either got it working or replaced the engine for free for me, I'd probably never touch another quart of oil.</p><p>Same with your family.  They say they're too old to learn, etc.  In my experience, any time anyone says they "can't" learn something, what they really mean is that learning is hard and they don't want (or can't summon the will) to put forth the effort.</p><p>Don't call them lazy for this; its a basic human trait.  It makes sense, as an intelligent being, to pick and choose your fights.</p><p>So, what you need is an incentive; some way for them to "feel your pain" from this issue, to make it personal to them again.</p><p>My gut feel is send them to geek squad next time it happens; one or two $150+ invoices from those guys will drive the level of effort involved home to dear old dad... I realize that most peoples aren't the asshole I am personally though, so that may seem like a less than tenable idea.</p><p>I saw someone else post that you should just charge for your own time.  If Geek Squad (or local equivalent) is out, you probably won't feel good about charging them, too.  Or worse, you'll charge them like you were burger flipping.  The knowledge and skills you developped to be able to triage and repair these kinds of problems took more than an hour training video to learn, and certainly take more mental energy than waiting for a microwave to beep, so why would you charge the kind of money you would pay someone like that?  If you're going to charge family to fix their computer, and you're doing it to make a point, you should probably charge "full amount", whatever you feel like that should be.</p><p>Assuming you're too much of a pussy to send them to Geek Squad, and too much of a nice guy to want to charge them the right amount, then we're onto the third option; lowered expectations.</p><p>I find that many times life is much simpler when you purposely lower the expectations of others.  Your wife drags you furniture shopping, or worse, sends you to do it yourself, when your color-blind idea of interior decorating consists of putting up college team penants on your wall over the bar?  Easy.  Pick the most horrendous example of poor choice possible.  Endorse it enthusiastically, act confused if anyone says anything that indicates they don't agree with your opinion that this is the finest possible example of modern seating style.  After a couple experiences like that, she will NEVER ask you to pick out another couch.</p><p>A similar idea could be applied here.  Sure, you'd love to help out with the computer!  Hmm, no I don't have it fixed yet, I'm still trying to see if I can rip this virus out.  Yeah, I thought I'd run a scandisk, make sure there weren't any errors before I do the reformat.  You know, I was thinking your issue might've been caused by a bad graphics driver, so I thought I'd look around tonight and find a better one to load on the machine.  etc.  Turn a 1 week fix into a month.  Try to ensure the computer is unusable or marginally usable for as long of that period as possible.</p><p>I guarantee their interest in avoiding that situation in the future WILL increase.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's been said elsewhere here , but I 'll repeat and try to add my own perspective.You have to create an incentive for them to change their behaviour .
If everytime I forgot to put oil in my car and it broke down , my mechanic either got it working or replaced the engine for free for me , I 'd probably never touch another quart of oil.Same with your family .
They say they 're too old to learn , etc .
In my experience , any time anyone says they " ca n't " learn something , what they really mean is that learning is hard and they do n't want ( or ca n't summon the will ) to put forth the effort.Do n't call them lazy for this ; its a basic human trait .
It makes sense , as an intelligent being , to pick and choose your fights.So , what you need is an incentive ; some way for them to " feel your pain " from this issue , to make it personal to them again.My gut feel is send them to geek squad next time it happens ; one or two $ 150 + invoices from those guys will drive the level of effort involved home to dear old dad... I realize that most peoples are n't the asshole I am personally though , so that may seem like a less than tenable idea.I saw someone else post that you should just charge for your own time .
If Geek Squad ( or local equivalent ) is out , you probably wo n't feel good about charging them , too .
Or worse , you 'll charge them like you were burger flipping .
The knowledge and skills you developped to be able to triage and repair these kinds of problems took more than an hour training video to learn , and certainly take more mental energy than waiting for a microwave to beep , so why would you charge the kind of money you would pay someone like that ?
If you 're going to charge family to fix their computer , and you 're doing it to make a point , you should probably charge " full amount " , whatever you feel like that should be.Assuming you 're too much of a pussy to send them to Geek Squad , and too much of a nice guy to want to charge them the right amount , then we 're onto the third option ; lowered expectations.I find that many times life is much simpler when you purposely lower the expectations of others .
Your wife drags you furniture shopping , or worse , sends you to do it yourself , when your color-blind idea of interior decorating consists of putting up college team penants on your wall over the bar ?
Easy. Pick the most horrendous example of poor choice possible .
Endorse it enthusiastically , act confused if anyone says anything that indicates they do n't agree with your opinion that this is the finest possible example of modern seating style .
After a couple experiences like that , she will NEVER ask you to pick out another couch.A similar idea could be applied here .
Sure , you 'd love to help out with the computer !
Hmm , no I do n't have it fixed yet , I 'm still trying to see if I can rip this virus out .
Yeah , I thought I 'd run a scandisk , make sure there were n't any errors before I do the reformat .
You know , I was thinking your issue might 've been caused by a bad graphics driver , so I thought I 'd look around tonight and find a better one to load on the machine .
etc. Turn a 1 week fix into a month .
Try to ensure the computer is unusable or marginally usable for as long of that period as possible.I guarantee their interest in avoiding that situation in the future WILL increase .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's been said elsewhere here, but I'll repeat and try to add my own perspective.You have to create an incentive for them to change their behaviour.
If everytime I forgot to put oil in my car and it broke down, my mechanic either got it working or replaced the engine for free for me, I'd probably never touch another quart of oil.Same with your family.
They say they're too old to learn, etc.
In my experience, any time anyone says they "can't" learn something, what they really mean is that learning is hard and they don't want (or can't summon the will) to put forth the effort.Don't call them lazy for this; its a basic human trait.
It makes sense, as an intelligent being, to pick and choose your fights.So, what you need is an incentive; some way for them to "feel your pain" from this issue, to make it personal to them again.My gut feel is send them to geek squad next time it happens; one or two $150+ invoices from those guys will drive the level of effort involved home to dear old dad... I realize that most peoples aren't the asshole I am personally though, so that may seem like a less than tenable idea.I saw someone else post that you should just charge for your own time.
If Geek Squad (or local equivalent) is out, you probably won't feel good about charging them, too.
Or worse, you'll charge them like you were burger flipping.
The knowledge and skills you developped to be able to triage and repair these kinds of problems took more than an hour training video to learn, and certainly take more mental energy than waiting for a microwave to beep, so why would you charge the kind of money you would pay someone like that?
If you're going to charge family to fix their computer, and you're doing it to make a point, you should probably charge "full amount", whatever you feel like that should be.Assuming you're too much of a pussy to send them to Geek Squad, and too much of a nice guy to want to charge them the right amount, then we're onto the third option; lowered expectations.I find that many times life is much simpler when you purposely lower the expectations of others.
Your wife drags you furniture shopping, or worse, sends you to do it yourself, when your color-blind idea of interior decorating consists of putting up college team penants on your wall over the bar?
Easy.  Pick the most horrendous example of poor choice possible.
Endorse it enthusiastically, act confused if anyone says anything that indicates they don't agree with your opinion that this is the finest possible example of modern seating style.
After a couple experiences like that, she will NEVER ask you to pick out another couch.A similar idea could be applied here.
Sure, you'd love to help out with the computer!
Hmm, no I don't have it fixed yet, I'm still trying to see if I can rip this virus out.
Yeah, I thought I'd run a scandisk, make sure there weren't any errors before I do the reformat.
You know, I was thinking your issue might've been caused by a bad graphics driver, so I thought I'd look around tonight and find a better one to load on the machine.
etc.  Turn a 1 week fix into a month.
Try to ensure the computer is unusable or marginally usable for as long of that period as possible.I guarantee their interest in avoiding that situation in the future WILL increase.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076202</id>
	<title>Re:It's true, in spades.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258053960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>I just spent four f***ing days reinstalling Windows XP because Vista figured Autocad was either already installed, couldn't be installed, or shouldn't be installed.</i> <br>
<br>
It took you four days to fail to clean up a borked program in the MSI cache, and then re-install the OS?  What the hell where you doing?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I just spent four f * * * ing days reinstalling Windows XP because Vista figured Autocad was either already installed , could n't be installed , or should n't be installed .
It took you four days to fail to clean up a borked program in the MSI cache , and then re-install the OS ?
What the hell where you doing ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just spent four f***ing days reinstalling Windows XP because Vista figured Autocad was either already installed, couldn't be installed, or shouldn't be installed.
It took you four days to fail to clean up a borked program in the MSI cache, and then re-install the OS?
What the hell where you doing?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075690</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076088</id>
	<title>It's very sad</title>
	<author>DerekLyons</author>
	<datestamp>1258053540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I find it sad an disturbing that both the OP, and many of the posters, only want to force the family to do one thing or another so he doesn't have to deal with them anymore.<br>
&nbsp; <br>I spent many hours patiently fixing my dad-in-laws computer when he'd managed, somehow, to mess it up <i>again</i>.  Didn't bother me much as it gave me a chance to visit with him and mom.<br>
&nbsp; <br>They're both gone now - and I'd give much to hear the phone ring and Dad say "son, I've managed to mess it up again, why don't you come over and fix it, and then we'll have dinner and catch the ball game".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I find it sad an disturbing that both the OP , and many of the posters , only want to force the family to do one thing or another so he does n't have to deal with them anymore .
  I spent many hours patiently fixing my dad-in-laws computer when he 'd managed , somehow , to mess it up again .
Did n't bother me much as it gave me a chance to visit with him and mom .
  They 're both gone now - and I 'd give much to hear the phone ring and Dad say " son , I 've managed to mess it up again , why do n't you come over and fix it , and then we 'll have dinner and catch the ball game " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I find it sad an disturbing that both the OP, and many of the posters, only want to force the family to do one thing or another so he doesn't have to deal with them anymore.
  I spent many hours patiently fixing my dad-in-laws computer when he'd managed, somehow, to mess it up again.
Didn't bother me much as it gave me a chance to visit with him and mom.
  They're both gone now - and I'd give much to hear the phone ring and Dad say "son, I've managed to mess it up again, why don't you come over and fix it, and then we'll have dinner and catch the ball game".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077056</id>
	<title>Re:Give Up</title>
	<author>NotBornYesterday</author>
	<datestamp>1258056780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't listen to those who tell you to give up or make it unpleasant for family to turn to you for help.  If you are at least a halfway decent person, chances are you got that way because your parents didn't give up on you when you needed help and education.  Time to pay back the favor.  I'd guess that re-educating them on computer use may help things, but will not fix them.  My suggestions:</p><p>
Be prepared.
</p><ul>
<li>Don't do a complete re-install every time.  Do a full, fresh install once, patch it, apply anti virus/malware/spyware software, and install applications that they want.  Once in a known-good state, back up the system. (1)</li><li>Be proactive and do periodic maintenance.  Every month or so, check that their system is clean and fully patched and do another backup.  Never overwrite your first full backup.</li><li>If you are not familiar with a live-cd version of linux, start learning.  As long as the problem isn't the hardware, having a bootable linux cd as a rescue disk is often my first step in un-borking a friend/family member's PC.</li><li>Give them accounts with limited privileges.</li></ul><p>
When re-imaging a system:
</p><ul>
<li>Boot to a live cd, back up any data (pictures, email folders, etc) might be recently changed and still wanted.</li><li>Wipe out the hard drive completely.  If your parents' system is chronically infested, there is a distinct chance that very nasty content has found its way onto that drive and could be found in a forensic examination.  Use the "wipe" utility, or the "dd" utility to make sure you have a squeaky clean slate to work on.</li><li>Restore the patched OS from your last known-good backup, reinstall any apps not previously backed up, and restore the user data.</li></ul><p>Doing all that will take a lot of time, but can mostly run without a babysitter.</p><p>If their computer has enough power to make it worthwhile, you could also set up a VM machine for them to run in.  Start with a known-good OS image, create a VM from it, clone the VM, and let them run the clone.  Erase the clone when it gets buggy, re-clone the original, patch it, and off they go again.</p><p>
(1) - There are a number of different ways to do backups with little or no further hardware investment.  If there is a network available with more than one computer attached, I might load one system with cheap disk and back up to that.  Otherwise, I'd get an external drive with a USB connection and dump my backups to that as needed.  Or you can get a USB key and back up to that, although that won't give you much room for incremental backups.  Or back up to DVD+R, although restoring from DVD might not be convenient on a system with only 1 CD/DVD drive if you are running from a live cd.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't listen to those who tell you to give up or make it unpleasant for family to turn to you for help .
If you are at least a halfway decent person , chances are you got that way because your parents did n't give up on you when you needed help and education .
Time to pay back the favor .
I 'd guess that re-educating them on computer use may help things , but will not fix them .
My suggestions : Be prepared .
Do n't do a complete re-install every time .
Do a full , fresh install once , patch it , apply anti virus/malware/spyware software , and install applications that they want .
Once in a known-good state , back up the system .
( 1 ) Be proactive and do periodic maintenance .
Every month or so , check that their system is clean and fully patched and do another backup .
Never overwrite your first full backup.If you are not familiar with a live-cd version of linux , start learning .
As long as the problem is n't the hardware , having a bootable linux cd as a rescue disk is often my first step in un-borking a friend/family member 's PC.Give them accounts with limited privileges .
When re-imaging a system : Boot to a live cd , back up any data ( pictures , email folders , etc ) might be recently changed and still wanted.Wipe out the hard drive completely .
If your parents ' system is chronically infested , there is a distinct chance that very nasty content has found its way onto that drive and could be found in a forensic examination .
Use the " wipe " utility , or the " dd " utility to make sure you have a squeaky clean slate to work on.Restore the patched OS from your last known-good backup , reinstall any apps not previously backed up , and restore the user data.Doing all that will take a lot of time , but can mostly run without a babysitter.If their computer has enough power to make it worthwhile , you could also set up a VM machine for them to run in .
Start with a known-good OS image , create a VM from it , clone the VM , and let them run the clone .
Erase the clone when it gets buggy , re-clone the original , patch it , and off they go again .
( 1 ) - There are a number of different ways to do backups with little or no further hardware investment .
If there is a network available with more than one computer attached , I might load one system with cheap disk and back up to that .
Otherwise , I 'd get an external drive with a USB connection and dump my backups to that as needed .
Or you can get a USB key and back up to that , although that wo n't give you much room for incremental backups .
Or back up to DVD + R , although restoring from DVD might not be convenient on a system with only 1 CD/DVD drive if you are running from a live cd .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't listen to those who tell you to give up or make it unpleasant for family to turn to you for help.
If you are at least a halfway decent person, chances are you got that way because your parents didn't give up on you when you needed help and education.
Time to pay back the favor.
I'd guess that re-educating them on computer use may help things, but will not fix them.
My suggestions:
Be prepared.
Don't do a complete re-install every time.
Do a full, fresh install once, patch it, apply anti virus/malware/spyware software, and install applications that they want.
Once in a known-good state, back up the system.
(1)Be proactive and do periodic maintenance.
Every month or so, check that their system is clean and fully patched and do another backup.
Never overwrite your first full backup.If you are not familiar with a live-cd version of linux, start learning.
As long as the problem isn't the hardware, having a bootable linux cd as a rescue disk is often my first step in un-borking a friend/family member's PC.Give them accounts with limited privileges.
When re-imaging a system:

Boot to a live cd, back up any data (pictures, email folders, etc) might be recently changed and still wanted.Wipe out the hard drive completely.
If your parents' system is chronically infested, there is a distinct chance that very nasty content has found its way onto that drive and could be found in a forensic examination.
Use the "wipe" utility, or the "dd" utility to make sure you have a squeaky clean slate to work on.Restore the patched OS from your last known-good backup, reinstall any apps not previously backed up, and restore the user data.Doing all that will take a lot of time, but can mostly run without a babysitter.If their computer has enough power to make it worthwhile, you could also set up a VM machine for them to run in.
Start with a known-good OS image, create a VM from it, clone the VM, and let them run the clone.
Erase the clone when it gets buggy, re-clone the original, patch it, and off they go again.
(1) - There are a number of different ways to do backups with little or no further hardware investment.
If there is a network available with more than one computer attached, I might load one system with cheap disk and back up to that.
Otherwise, I'd get an external drive with a USB connection and dump my backups to that as needed.
Or you can get a USB key and back up to that, although that won't give you much room for incremental backups.
Or back up to DVD+R, although restoring from DVD might not be convenient on a system with only 1 CD/DVD drive if you are running from a live cd.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074962</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075940</id>
	<title>Security through obscurity: Hide the IE icon.</title>
	<author>w0mprat</author>
	<datestamp>1258053120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wouldn't rely solely on education to fix the meatspace vulnerabilities. You need to have some degree of fool-proofishness. A switch to Firefox + Thunderbird is a good start. Get them to use Firefox with addons such as myWOT which does a great job of warning of malicious and even just untrustworthy sites.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would n't rely solely on education to fix the meatspace vulnerabilities .
You need to have some degree of fool-proofishness .
A switch to Firefox + Thunderbird is a good start .
Get them to use Firefox with addons such as myWOT which does a great job of warning of malicious and even just untrustworthy sites .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wouldn't rely solely on education to fix the meatspace vulnerabilities.
You need to have some degree of fool-proofishness.
A switch to Firefox + Thunderbird is a good start.
Get them to use Firefox with addons such as myWOT which does a great job of warning of malicious and even just untrustworthy sites.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075572</id>
	<title>Simple solutions</title>
	<author>GuardianLurker</author>
	<datestamp>1258051920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My parent are ~ 70 years old, and their computers are probably healthier than mine.</p><p>How?</p><p>I knew they wouldn't understand all the trade-offs involved in Internet security, so I set them up with a basic secure setup (auto-updates from MS, anti-virus, anti-spyware), and gave them 3 simple rules:</p><p>1) When you aren't using the computer - turn it off. Bad guys can't get in, or do anything to the computer, if it's not on.</p><p>2) Stay in the "well-lit" areas of the Internet. By that I mean corporate and reputable public sites - as a general rule of thumb, if they've heard about it on the news, its "well-lit".</p><p>3) Only download something when *YOU* want it, not when a site says you need it. And anytime a site says you need their special application to view video, listen to audio, or read something, they LIE.</p><p>I've also worked over the years to transition them off IE and Outlook, but that was just really icing - the basic setup and the security rules did *ALL* the heavy lifting.</p><p>Now, every so often, I'll have to do basic maintenace - renew their AV, make sure they've got all the updates, defrag their drives, etc. - but it's all relatively painless stuff. And I've never had to rebuild their computer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My parent are ~ 70 years old , and their computers are probably healthier than mine.How ? I knew they would n't understand all the trade-offs involved in Internet security , so I set them up with a basic secure setup ( auto-updates from MS , anti-virus , anti-spyware ) , and gave them 3 simple rules : 1 ) When you are n't using the computer - turn it off .
Bad guys ca n't get in , or do anything to the computer , if it 's not on.2 ) Stay in the " well-lit " areas of the Internet .
By that I mean corporate and reputable public sites - as a general rule of thumb , if they 've heard about it on the news , its " well-lit " .3 ) Only download something when * YOU * want it , not when a site says you need it .
And anytime a site says you need their special application to view video , listen to audio , or read something , they LIE.I 've also worked over the years to transition them off IE and Outlook , but that was just really icing - the basic setup and the security rules did * ALL * the heavy lifting.Now , every so often , I 'll have to do basic maintenace - renew their AV , make sure they 've got all the updates , defrag their drives , etc .
- but it 's all relatively painless stuff .
And I 've never had to rebuild their computer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My parent are ~ 70 years old, and their computers are probably healthier than mine.How?I knew they wouldn't understand all the trade-offs involved in Internet security, so I set them up with a basic secure setup (auto-updates from MS, anti-virus, anti-spyware), and gave them 3 simple rules:1) When you aren't using the computer - turn it off.
Bad guys can't get in, or do anything to the computer, if it's not on.2) Stay in the "well-lit" areas of the Internet.
By that I mean corporate and reputable public sites - as a general rule of thumb, if they've heard about it on the news, its "well-lit".3) Only download something when *YOU* want it, not when a site says you need it.
And anytime a site says you need their special application to view video, listen to audio, or read something, they LIE.I've also worked over the years to transition them off IE and Outlook, but that was just really icing - the basic setup and the security rules did *ALL* the heavy lifting.Now, every so often, I'll have to do basic maintenace - renew their AV, make sure they've got all the updates, defrag their drives, etc.
- but it's all relatively painless stuff.
And I've never had to rebuild their computer.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076744</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>jbarr</author>
	<datestamp>1258055700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or check out Faronics' "Deep Freeze" app...</p><p>www.faronics.com/html/Deepfreeze.asp</p><p>And keep data on a shared server if on a home LAN, or on another drive/partition if on a standalone.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or check out Faronics ' " Deep Freeze " app...www.faronics.com/html/Deepfreeze.aspAnd keep data on a shared server if on a home LAN , or on another drive/partition if on a standalone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or check out Faronics' "Deep Freeze" app...www.faronics.com/html/Deepfreeze.aspAnd keep data on a shared server if on a home LAN, or on another drive/partition if on a standalone.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074676</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074916</id>
	<title>Not to be that guy...</title>
	<author>Shadow7789</author>
	<datestamp>1258050120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>But, if all they are doing is checking websites and reading email, why not just switch them over to Linux or OSX?  Then they won't have to worry about these problems again.<br>
<br>
If that isn't an option, just setting them up with Firefox, a good AV, Windows Firewall, Spybot, and automated Windows Updates should take care of most of your problems.  An even better option would be to just give them limited accounts, or at least move them off of XP so that every action they take doesn't have Administrator permissions.<br>
<br>
As for your actual question, <a href="http://www.getsafeonline.org/" title="getsafeonline.org" rel="nofollow">this website</a> [getsafeonline.org] might be useful.</htmltext>
<tokenext>But , if all they are doing is checking websites and reading email , why not just switch them over to Linux or OSX ?
Then they wo n't have to worry about these problems again .
If that is n't an option , just setting them up with Firefox , a good AV , Windows Firewall , Spybot , and automated Windows Updates should take care of most of your problems .
An even better option would be to just give them limited accounts , or at least move them off of XP so that every action they take does n't have Administrator permissions .
As for your actual question , this website [ getsafeonline.org ] might be useful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But, if all they are doing is checking websites and reading email, why not just switch them over to Linux or OSX?
Then they won't have to worry about these problems again.
If that isn't an option, just setting them up with Firefox, a good AV, Windows Firewall, Spybot, and automated Windows Updates should take care of most of your problems.
An even better option would be to just give them limited accounts, or at least move them off of XP so that every action they take doesn't have Administrator permissions.
As for your actual question, this website [getsafeonline.org] might be useful.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074842</id>
	<title>Simple economics:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258050000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>Stop doing it for free</i>. Either charge them for your time, or tell them to get it repaired at the store. I think you might be amazed how interested they become in browsing the net safely and taking care of their PC when they have a financial motivation to do so.<p>I know a lot of people have a hard time mustering up the courage to tell their folks to pay up, but take my advise - you're doing them a favor in the end (not to mention giving them a lesson the value of what you do).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Stop doing it for free .
Either charge them for your time , or tell them to get it repaired at the store .
I think you might be amazed how interested they become in browsing the net safely and taking care of their PC when they have a financial motivation to do so.I know a lot of people have a hard time mustering up the courage to tell their folks to pay up , but take my advise - you 're doing them a favor in the end ( not to mention giving them a lesson the value of what you do ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Stop doing it for free.
Either charge them for your time, or tell them to get it repaired at the store.
I think you might be amazed how interested they become in browsing the net safely and taking care of their PC when they have a financial motivation to do so.I know a lot of people have a hard time mustering up the courage to tell their folks to pay up, but take my advise - you're doing them a favor in the end (not to mention giving them a lesson the value of what you do).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077578</id>
	<title>Take an Image</title>
	<author>davidshewitt</author>
	<datestamp>1258058700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Start with a fresh windows install, install everything that they need, configure it how they like it, and take an image.  Set up their files to be stored on a separate partition.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Start with a fresh windows install , install everything that they need , configure it how they like it , and take an image .
Set up their files to be stored on a separate partition .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Start with a fresh windows install, install everything that they need, configure it how they like it, and take an image.
Set up their files to be stored on a separate partition.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075966</id>
	<title>Quick Guides to Scary Internet Stuff in video</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258053240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Check this out http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/quick-guides-scary-internet-stuff Seems to do what you are asking for.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Check this out http : //www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/quick-guides-scary-internet-stuff Seems to do what you are asking for .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Check this out http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/quick-guides-scary-internet-stuff Seems to do what you are asking for.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077740</id>
	<title>personal responsibility</title>
	<author>bugi</author>
	<datestamp>1258059180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>These days, computers cleanliness is just basic hygiene, so treat the consequence like any other infection.  Quarantine it like any other diseased system.  It'll either heal itself or you'll get to it when you get to it.  You'll have to be a hard-ass for awhile, but they'll either learn some responsibility or find some other nerd to bully.</p><p>In other words, they are being very inconsiderate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>These days , computers cleanliness is just basic hygiene , so treat the consequence like any other infection .
Quarantine it like any other diseased system .
It 'll either heal itself or you 'll get to it when you get to it .
You 'll have to be a hard-ass for awhile , but they 'll either learn some responsibility or find some other nerd to bully.In other words , they are being very inconsiderate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>These days, computers cleanliness is just basic hygiene, so treat the consequence like any other infection.
Quarantine it like any other diseased system.
It'll either heal itself or you'll get to it when you get to it.
You'll have to be a hard-ass for awhile, but they'll either learn some responsibility or find some other nerd to bully.In other words, they are being very inconsiderate.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075836</id>
	<title>Re:Correct User Access</title>
	<author>radish</author>
	<datestamp>1258052820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Agreed. I'm also tech support for our house, and although we only have 2 people it's still a network of 25+ devices and at least 7 computers. My wife doesn't get admin rights on anything, and she actually likes it that way (less chance of her breaking something and having to ask me for help!). I also lock down IE and make Firefox the only allowed browser, setup automatic updates and run a free AV. To be honest in the last few years I can only think of one malware incident and that was my fault ironically - testing out whether my firefox install was vulnerable to a drive by (it was!).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed .
I 'm also tech support for our house , and although we only have 2 people it 's still a network of 25 + devices and at least 7 computers .
My wife does n't get admin rights on anything , and she actually likes it that way ( less chance of her breaking something and having to ask me for help ! ) .
I also lock down IE and make Firefox the only allowed browser , setup automatic updates and run a free AV .
To be honest in the last few years I can only think of one malware incident and that was my fault ironically - testing out whether my firefox install was vulnerable to a drive by ( it was !
) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed.
I'm also tech support for our house, and although we only have 2 people it's still a network of 25+ devices and at least 7 computers.
My wife doesn't get admin rights on anything, and she actually likes it that way (less chance of her breaking something and having to ask me for help!).
I also lock down IE and make Firefox the only allowed browser, setup automatic updates and run a free AV.
To be honest in the last few years I can only think of one malware incident and that was my fault ironically - testing out whether my firefox install was vulnerable to a drive by (it was!
).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077834</id>
	<title>Some material that might help</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258059480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>ongaurdonline.gov is chalk full of silly little games and quizzes your family might learn something from.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>ongaurdonline.gov is chalk full of silly little games and quizzes your family might learn something from .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ongaurdonline.gov is chalk full of silly little games and quizzes your family might learn something from.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30082786</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>Lysol</author>
	<datestamp>1258040580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yup! I replace my dad's virii infested XP machine tomorrow. My parents will have an all Mac house and I won't be getting any more whacky phone calls about why my dad can't open any docs anymore or the 10k other things that come as bonus features in teh Windows world. My mom, during all these years with her G4 iMac has not had one problem..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yup !
I replace my dad 's virii infested XP machine tomorrow .
My parents will have an all Mac house and I wo n't be getting any more whacky phone calls about why my dad ca n't open any docs anymore or the 10k other things that come as bonus features in teh Windows world .
My mom , during all these years with her G4 iMac has not had one problem. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yup!
I replace my dad's virii infested XP machine tomorrow.
My parents will have an all Mac house and I won't be getting any more whacky phone calls about why my dad can't open any docs anymore or the 10k other things that come as bonus features in teh Windows world.
My mom, during all these years with her G4 iMac has not had one problem..</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078144</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>misexistentialist</author>
	<datestamp>1258017420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Don't argue with your girlfriend! She cuts out testes for a living.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't argue with your girlfriend !
She cuts out testes for a living .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't argue with your girlfriend!
She cuts out testes for a living.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30083754</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>Chuq</author>
	<datestamp>1258050780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Interesting point about the fixing a car comment.  My father-in-law is a mechanic (works for himself).  He services my and my wife's cars, and we get invoices for them.  I fix their computer, I never charge them.  I never really thought about it.  They are the only people who ask for free tech support, and it's not very often, so I guess it's not too much of a strain.</p><p>My mother-in-law gives us 1 day a week of free childcare (plus the occasional extra hour or two every so often) so I guess that has to count for something!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Interesting point about the fixing a car comment .
My father-in-law is a mechanic ( works for himself ) .
He services my and my wife 's cars , and we get invoices for them .
I fix their computer , I never charge them .
I never really thought about it .
They are the only people who ask for free tech support , and it 's not very often , so I guess it 's not too much of a strain.My mother-in-law gives us 1 day a week of free childcare ( plus the occasional extra hour or two every so often ) so I guess that has to count for something !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Interesting point about the fixing a car comment.
My father-in-law is a mechanic (works for himself).
He services my and my wife's cars, and we get invoices for them.
I fix their computer, I never charge them.
I never really thought about it.
They are the only people who ask for free tech support, and it's not very often, so I guess it's not too much of a strain.My mother-in-law gives us 1 day a week of free childcare (plus the occasional extra hour or two every so often) so I guess that has to count for something!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075962</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075400</id>
	<title>Re:Install Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Jeek Elemental</author>
	<datestamp>1258051440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Agreed, Ive put ubuntu on a kids video/surf laptop and my parents surf/email/photos machine.<br>No problems and no worries.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed , Ive put ubuntu on a kids video/surf laptop and my parents surf/email/photos machine.No problems and no worries .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed, Ive put ubuntu on a kids video/surf laptop and my parents surf/email/photos machine.No problems and no worries.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074680</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075476</id>
	<title>Re:Correct User Access</title>
	<author>jimmyswimmy</author>
	<datestamp>1258051620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Absolutely mod parent up.  This is the way to go.  You aren't going to get the 9 or 26 year old to go to Ubuntu - they "need" windows.<br><br>A few years ago I set my parents' computer up with XP and created three accounts - one for each parent and one Admin account.  My parents' accounts were regular, non-admin user accounts.  I told them, very clearly, that they were not accounts like they are used to and that they would need to "do something different" to install stuff.  Then I let them deal with it for a few months like that, and ignored all complaints.<br><br>After a few months I came back and updated all the flash and adobe crap, and then told them the administrator password, but they were so used to running as regular users they had changed their usage patterns and didn't need it, except to install new programs or updates.<br><br>The difference?  Instead of having to fix their computer monthly, I had over a year in which I didn't have to do anything at all.  Much easier.  When I did this on my personal computer (before doing it to my parents) I went from spending an hour a week "cleaning stuff up" to nearly no time doing computer maintenance at all.<br><br>The only problem they have is that each account has about 5 different IE searchbars.  Maybe I shouldn't have told them the administrator password after all.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Absolutely mod parent up .
This is the way to go .
You are n't going to get the 9 or 26 year old to go to Ubuntu - they " need " windows.A few years ago I set my parents ' computer up with XP and created three accounts - one for each parent and one Admin account .
My parents ' accounts were regular , non-admin user accounts .
I told them , very clearly , that they were not accounts like they are used to and that they would need to " do something different " to install stuff .
Then I let them deal with it for a few months like that , and ignored all complaints.After a few months I came back and updated all the flash and adobe crap , and then told them the administrator password , but they were so used to running as regular users they had changed their usage patterns and did n't need it , except to install new programs or updates.The difference ?
Instead of having to fix their computer monthly , I had over a year in which I did n't have to do anything at all .
Much easier .
When I did this on my personal computer ( before doing it to my parents ) I went from spending an hour a week " cleaning stuff up " to nearly no time doing computer maintenance at all.The only problem they have is that each account has about 5 different IE searchbars .
Maybe I should n't have told them the administrator password after all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Absolutely mod parent up.
This is the way to go.
You aren't going to get the 9 or 26 year old to go to Ubuntu - they "need" windows.A few years ago I set my parents' computer up with XP and created three accounts - one for each parent and one Admin account.
My parents' accounts were regular, non-admin user accounts.
I told them, very clearly, that they were not accounts like they are used to and that they would need to "do something different" to install stuff.
Then I let them deal with it for a few months like that, and ignored all complaints.After a few months I came back and updated all the flash and adobe crap, and then told them the administrator password, but they were so used to running as regular users they had changed their usage patterns and didn't need it, except to install new programs or updates.The difference?
Instead of having to fix their computer monthly, I had over a year in which I didn't have to do anything at all.
Much easier.
When I did this on my personal computer (before doing it to my parents) I went from spending an hour a week "cleaning stuff up" to nearly no time doing computer maintenance at all.The only problem they have is that each account has about 5 different IE searchbars.
Maybe I shouldn't have told them the administrator password after all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077726</id>
	<title>Re:Tell them to stop using Windows</title>
	<author>StanramonFlash</author>
	<datestamp>1258059120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I would do this too(after letting them sit dead in the water with their broken computer) until one day you bring up... you know, so-and-so needs a new computer (!one that isn't OEM!) What would you be willing to put towards it?  There's always an option once they take that miniscule step.  Then go and max out their purchasing power..
<br> <br>-    -     -<br>
Linux is like water, 80 \% of the surface of a habitable planet</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would do this too ( after letting them sit dead in the water with their broken computer ) until one day you bring up... you know , so-and-so needs a new computer ( ! one that is n't OEM !
) What would you be willing to put towards it ?
There 's always an option once they take that miniscule step .
Then go and max out their purchasing power. . - - - Linux is like water , 80 \ % of the surface of a habitable planet</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would do this too(after letting them sit dead in the water with their broken computer) until one day you bring up... you know, so-and-so needs a new computer (!one that isn't OEM!
) What would you be willing to put towards it?
There's always an option once they take that miniscule step.
Then go and max out their purchasing power..
 -    -     -
Linux is like water, 80 \% of the surface of a habitable planet</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074724</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076620</id>
	<title>Re:Install Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258055280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Each time you run a file downloaded from the internet a kitten dies. There job done.</p></div></blockquote><p>Please stop downloading files. I don't want to run out of kittens to kick. Kicking kittens is even more fun than kicking puppies or stealing candy from babies!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Each time you run a file downloaded from the internet a kitten dies .
There job done.Please stop downloading files .
I do n't want to run out of kittens to kick .
Kicking kittens is even more fun than kicking puppies or stealing candy from babies !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Each time you run a file downloaded from the internet a kitten dies.
There job done.Please stop downloading files.
I don't want to run out of kittens to kick.
Kicking kittens is even more fun than kicking puppies or stealing candy from babies!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075198</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078614</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258019220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's probably cheaper and less stressful to get some younger parents.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>Kidding aside, I've put a moratorium on tech support for my mother until she gets a Mac.  Years of Windows neglect makes it harder to visualize on a phone call.  I have the utmost respect/pity for telephone support professionals. I couldn't do it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's probably cheaper and less stressful to get some younger parents .
: ) Kidding aside , I 've put a moratorium on tech support for my mother until she gets a Mac .
Years of Windows neglect makes it harder to visualize on a phone call .
I have the utmost respect/pity for telephone support professionals .
I could n't do it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's probably cheaper and less stressful to get some younger parents.
:)Kidding aside, I've put a moratorium on tech support for my mother until she gets a Mac.
Years of Windows neglect makes it harder to visualize on a phone call.
I have the utmost respect/pity for telephone support professionals.
I couldn't do it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078150</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>Chris Mattern</author>
	<datestamp>1258017420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>why not just formalize the situation if for no other reason than the tax benefits?</p></div></blockquote><p>Generally, in the US, if both the man and the woman are pulling down a paycheck, marrying results in a tax *increase*, not a tax benefit.  While married couples pay on a lower tax rate schedule, their combined income drives them into the higher brackets and they pay more.  You can file separately, but then you pay on a *higher* tax rate schedule than single people.  Google on "marriage tax".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>why not just formalize the situation if for no other reason than the tax benefits ? Generally , in the US , if both the man and the woman are pulling down a paycheck , marrying results in a tax * increase * , not a tax benefit .
While married couples pay on a lower tax rate schedule , their combined income drives them into the higher brackets and they pay more .
You can file separately , but then you pay on a * higher * tax rate schedule than single people .
Google on " marriage tax " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>why not just formalize the situation if for no other reason than the tax benefits?Generally, in the US, if both the man and the woman are pulling down a paycheck, marrying results in a tax *increase*, not a tax benefit.
While married couples pay on a lower tax rate schedule, their combined income drives them into the higher brackets and they pay more.
You can file separately, but then you pay on a *higher* tax rate schedule than single people.
Google on "marriage tax".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076854</id>
	<title>My approach</title>
	<author>Brit\_in\_the\_USA</author>
	<datestamp>1258056120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>For the kids set up their login accounts as non-administrator so they can't install anything (same for irresponsible adults).<br>
All users get their own account and password. So no easy click route to admin.<br>
Screen saver set to 
Set up the PC (including all the programs they need and all their email accounts set up) then do a system image to a DVD set or HD that you keep safe - much quicker to reinstall the PC that way.<br>
Auto windows update and install and auto virus killer scans and updates.<br>
Cross loop or some other desktop sharing session to help remotely.<br>
When ever vising them take 10 minutes out of the visit to sit down at the PC to check virus and auto updates are still in effect and ask them for any issues they've been having.<br>
Repeat offenders who demand admin rights (and then proceed to mess up their pc again and again)  get longer and longer waits for the "repair".<br>
Those who have demonstrated responsibility get treated to hardware upgrades and help with setting up new/additional software they might enjoy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>For the kids set up their login accounts as non-administrator so they ca n't install anything ( same for irresponsible adults ) .
All users get their own account and password .
So no easy click route to admin .
Screen saver set to Set up the PC ( including all the programs they need and all their email accounts set up ) then do a system image to a DVD set or HD that you keep safe - much quicker to reinstall the PC that way .
Auto windows update and install and auto virus killer scans and updates .
Cross loop or some other desktop sharing session to help remotely .
When ever vising them take 10 minutes out of the visit to sit down at the PC to check virus and auto updates are still in effect and ask them for any issues they 've been having .
Repeat offenders who demand admin rights ( and then proceed to mess up their pc again and again ) get longer and longer waits for the " repair " .
Those who have demonstrated responsibility get treated to hardware upgrades and help with setting up new/additional software they might enjoy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For the kids set up their login accounts as non-administrator so they can't install anything (same for irresponsible adults).
All users get their own account and password.
So no easy click route to admin.
Screen saver set to 
Set up the PC (including all the programs they need and all their email accounts set up) then do a system image to a DVD set or HD that you keep safe - much quicker to reinstall the PC that way.
Auto windows update and install and auto virus killer scans and updates.
Cross loop or some other desktop sharing session to help remotely.
When ever vising them take 10 minutes out of the visit to sit down at the PC to check virus and auto updates are still in effect and ask them for any issues they've been having.
Repeat offenders who demand admin rights (and then proceed to mess up their pc again and again)  get longer and longer waits for the "repair".
Those who have demonstrated responsibility get treated to hardware upgrades and help with setting up new/additional software they might enjoy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075564</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>PitaBred</author>
	<datestamp>1258051860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The next time they tell you that technology isn't important, tell them that they can pay for support at a local shop then, you're through with doing it for free. They'll come around once they feel the pinch.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The next time they tell you that technology is n't important , tell them that they can pay for support at a local shop then , you 're through with doing it for free .
They 'll come around once they feel the pinch .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The next time they tell you that technology isn't important, tell them that they can pay for support at a local shop then, you're through with doing it for free.
They'll come around once they feel the pinch.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074816</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074680</id>
	<title>Install Ubuntu</title>
	<author>HalifaxRage</author>
	<datestamp>1258049520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>&gt; no technical background aside from surfing the internet

Sounds like a perfect audience for an OS with fewer security flaws.</htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; no technical background aside from surfing the internet Sounds like a perfect audience for an OS with fewer security flaws .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; no technical background aside from surfing the internet

Sounds like a perfect audience for an OS with fewer security flaws.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077538</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>DarthVain</author>
	<datestamp>1258058520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>LOL. My sister got a Mac and my tech support totally stopped.</p><p>Now when she asks for help I just shrug and say "Sorry I know nothing about Macs..."<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>LOL .
My sister got a Mac and my tech support totally stopped.Now when she asks for help I just shrug and say " Sorry I know nothing about Macs... " : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>LOL.
My sister got a Mac and my tech support totally stopped.Now when she asks for help I just shrug and say "Sorry I know nothing about Macs..." :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075962</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075434</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258051500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bad parents, change your parents.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bad parents , change your parents .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bad parents, change your parents.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074816</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075096</id>
	<title>Re:Correct User Access</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258050540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I've found the best thing is to treat them like a corporation. Make sure their accounts are only user level, and either hold on to the Administrator password or make sure they know the real reason to use it. Done that with a few family friends I do work for and the amount of trouble i've had has dropped drastically.</p></div><p>Right. I'd go a step further and create groups and group policies. Each age range of user needs to be put in a certain group. Keep the kids off places that would be full of junk, filter out dangerous sites for the adults who don't know better. Just some basic stuff like that.</p><p>Just find yourself an old machine and throw Active Directory on it. And then lock it down like nobody's business.</p><p>Above and beyond that, I would create a disk image for each of the computers (maybe 1/calendar quarter, and they have to bring the machine to you), and always restore from that. If they want to keep their data, they need to back up their data. You are no longer responsible for data lost, and your time is valuable enough that if they bring you a machine to be fixed, it gets reimaged. Period. None of this non-destructive stuff.</p><p>You've been putting up with this for 8 years. No more!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've found the best thing is to treat them like a corporation .
Make sure their accounts are only user level , and either hold on to the Administrator password or make sure they know the real reason to use it .
Done that with a few family friends I do work for and the amount of trouble i 've had has dropped drastically.Right .
I 'd go a step further and create groups and group policies .
Each age range of user needs to be put in a certain group .
Keep the kids off places that would be full of junk , filter out dangerous sites for the adults who do n't know better .
Just some basic stuff like that.Just find yourself an old machine and throw Active Directory on it .
And then lock it down like nobody 's business.Above and beyond that , I would create a disk image for each of the computers ( maybe 1/calendar quarter , and they have to bring the machine to you ) , and always restore from that .
If they want to keep their data , they need to back up their data .
You are no longer responsible for data lost , and your time is valuable enough that if they bring you a machine to be fixed , it gets reimaged .
Period. None of this non-destructive stuff.You 've been putting up with this for 8 years .
No more !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've found the best thing is to treat them like a corporation.
Make sure their accounts are only user level, and either hold on to the Administrator password or make sure they know the real reason to use it.
Done that with a few family friends I do work for and the amount of trouble i've had has dropped drastically.Right.
I'd go a step further and create groups and group policies.
Each age range of user needs to be put in a certain group.
Keep the kids off places that would be full of junk, filter out dangerous sites for the adults who don't know better.
Just some basic stuff like that.Just find yourself an old machine and throw Active Directory on it.
And then lock it down like nobody's business.Above and beyond that, I would create a disk image for each of the computers (maybe 1/calendar quarter, and they have to bring the machine to you), and always restore from that.
If they want to keep their data, they need to back up their data.
You are no longer responsible for data lost, and your time is valuable enough that if they bring you a machine to be fixed, it gets reimaged.
Period. None of this non-destructive stuff.You've been putting up with this for 8 years.
No more!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076268</id>
	<title>Re:The butterfly Parable</title>
	<author>Njoyda Sauce</author>
	<datestamp>1258054140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree this analogy doesn't really hold here.  If anything, it appears that the OP's users were already crippled butterflies (no way to fly and all). Spending some (minimal) instruction time with guidance to places to learn more will save yourself time (and eye-gouging?) in the long run. Nadaka's point about saplings is also true.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree this analogy does n't really hold here .
If anything , it appears that the OP 's users were already crippled butterflies ( no way to fly and all ) .
Spending some ( minimal ) instruction time with guidance to places to learn more will save yourself time ( and eye-gouging ?
) in the long run .
Nadaka 's point about saplings is also true .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree this analogy doesn't really hold here.
If anything, it appears that the OP's users were already crippled butterflies (no way to fly and all).
Spending some (minimal) instruction time with guidance to places to learn more will save yourself time (and eye-gouging?
) in the long run.
Nadaka's point about saplings is also true.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076852</id>
	<title>Re:Oblig. XKCD</title>
	<author>Sparky McGruff</author>
	<datestamp>1258056060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Just thought I'd note that this is absolutely, positively the wrong thing to do if the problem is malware and viruses.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just thought I 'd note that this is absolutely , positively the wrong thing to do if the problem is malware and viruses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just thought I'd note that this is absolutely, positively the wrong thing to do if the problem is malware and viruses.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074898</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075484</id>
	<title>Lock it down</title>
	<author>Merenth</author>
	<datestamp>1258051620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think that it all depends on the details of your situation.

1. Macs.  Yes, switching them to Macs will eliminate your support time, but it isn't a cheap solution.
2. Linux.  It's fine for some people, but switching to Linux to reduce support time is like switching to Zima to reduce your bar tab.  People who don't want to learn about tech won't like any flavor of Linux.
3. Windows.  If you stick with Windows, install Firefox with Adblock Plus.  Delete all IE icons. Move them to web mail. Make a disk image of each machine.  Disk imaging software will save you a ton of time on the occasions where a reformat is needed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think that it all depends on the details of your situation .
1. Macs .
Yes , switching them to Macs will eliminate your support time , but it is n't a cheap solution .
2. Linux .
It 's fine for some people , but switching to Linux to reduce support time is like switching to Zima to reduce your bar tab .
People who do n't want to learn about tech wo n't like any flavor of Linux .
3. Windows .
If you stick with Windows , install Firefox with Adblock Plus .
Delete all IE icons .
Move them to web mail .
Make a disk image of each machine .
Disk imaging software will save you a ton of time on the occasions where a reformat is needed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think that it all depends on the details of your situation.
1. Macs.
Yes, switching them to Macs will eliminate your support time, but it isn't a cheap solution.
2. Linux.
It's fine for some people, but switching to Linux to reduce support time is like switching to Zima to reduce your bar tab.
People who don't want to learn about tech won't like any flavor of Linux.
3. Windows.
If you stick with Windows, install Firefox with Adblock Plus.
Delete all IE icons.
Move them to web mail.
Make a disk image of each machine.
Disk imaging software will save you a ton of time on the occasions where a reformat is needed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075852</id>
	<title>resources -- best bets</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258052880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1 simple solution GHOST, the best program ever made by symantec<br>2 "sandboxie" great program for older computers x86 allows programs to be installed in<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; a "sandbox" without being able to change anything<br>3 a live cd most are linux based but there are some windows based, downside you CANNOT install anything<br>4 steady state or limited user accounts, i.e. users cant install anything</p><p>my first suggestion is option 1 by far, get the machine where you want it and make the first image and whenever you need to just restore that image<br>cons to this are space requirements, this method takes up the most space, a typical pc would take up between 8 and 15 GB</p><p>option 2 great program you must pay for it, not fool proof</p><p>options 3 and 4 you just cant install software as the end user and may not be very friendly to all users</p><p>theres my peice</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 simple solution GHOST , the best program ever made by symantec2 " sandboxie " great program for older computers x86 allows programs to be installed in                                   a " sandbox " without being able to change anything3 a live cd most are linux based but there are some windows based , downside you CAN NOT install anything4 steady state or limited user accounts , i.e .
users cant install anythingmy first suggestion is option 1 by far , get the machine where you want it and make the first image and whenever you need to just restore that imagecons to this are space requirements , this method takes up the most space , a typical pc would take up between 8 and 15 GBoption 2 great program you must pay for it , not fool proofoptions 3 and 4 you just cant install software as the end user and may not be very friendly to all userstheres my peice</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1 simple solution GHOST, the best program ever made by symantec2 "sandboxie" great program for older computers x86 allows programs to be installed in
                                  a "sandbox" without being able to change anything3 a live cd most are linux based but there are some windows based, downside you CANNOT install anything4 steady state or limited user accounts, i.e.
users cant install anythingmy first suggestion is option 1 by far, get the machine where you want it and make the first image and whenever you need to just restore that imagecons to this are space requirements, this method takes up the most space, a typical pc would take up between 8 and 15 GBoption 2 great program you must pay for it, not fool proofoptions 3 and 4 you just cant install software as the end user and may not be very friendly to all userstheres my peice</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075260</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>Kazura</author>
	<datestamp>1258051020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I second this COMPLETELY<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... Both my parents, my sister, my Father-in-Law (a biggie!!!) and Sister-in-law ALL went Mac and after a minor break-in period - everything is QUIET!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</htmltext>
<tokenext>I second this COMPLETELY ... Both my parents , my sister , my Father-in-Law ( a biggie ! ! !
) and Sister-in-law ALL went Mac and after a minor break-in period - everything is QUIET !
: - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I second this COMPLETELY ... Both my parents, my sister, my Father-in-Law (a biggie!!!
) and Sister-in-law ALL went Mac and after a minor break-in period - everything is QUIET!
:-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074886</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30093266</id>
	<title>Easy way:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258115700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1. Install Ubuntu and VMPlayer.<br>2. Create a VMWare image of XP, with all the tweaks done.<br>3. Set up a shared folder between Ubuntu and the VM image. Change name to "My Documents" with sub-folders.<br>4. Set Ubuntu to boot up w/o a userid / password screen and copy stored\_xpimage to live\_xpimage<br>5. Set up to run vmplayer live\_xpimage.vmx directly, in full screen mode.<br>6. Live in peace - who cares about virusses &amp; whatnot; each time they boot up they get a new image to fuck up.</p><p>(Remember to tell them that they will lose everything saved on their desktop - it is a security feature. Force them to use "My Documents")</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
Install Ubuntu and VMPlayer.2 .
Create a VMWare image of XP , with all the tweaks done.3 .
Set up a shared folder between Ubuntu and the VM image .
Change name to " My Documents " with sub-folders.4 .
Set Ubuntu to boot up w/o a userid / password screen and copy stored \ _xpimage to live \ _xpimage5 .
Set up to run vmplayer live \ _xpimage.vmx directly , in full screen mode.6 .
Live in peace - who cares about virusses &amp; whatnot ; each time they boot up they get a new image to fuck up .
( Remember to tell them that they will lose everything saved on their desktop - it is a security feature .
Force them to use " My Documents " )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.
Install Ubuntu and VMPlayer.2.
Create a VMWare image of XP, with all the tweaks done.3.
Set up a shared folder between Ubuntu and the VM image.
Change name to "My Documents" with sub-folders.4.
Set Ubuntu to boot up w/o a userid / password screen and copy stored\_xpimage to live\_xpimage5.
Set up to run vmplayer live\_xpimage.vmx directly, in full screen mode.6.
Live in peace - who cares about virusses &amp; whatnot; each time they boot up they get a new image to fuck up.
(Remember to tell them that they will lose everything saved on their desktop - it is a security feature.
Force them to use "My Documents")</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30081070</id>
	<title>Re:Give Up</title>
	<author>AgentBif</author>
	<datestamp>1258028400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
I have a T-shirt that says "Fix your own #@$^&amp;! computer."
</p><p>
Get yourself one of those.
</p><p>
Problem solved.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a T-shirt that says " Fix your own # @ $ ^ &amp; !
computer. " Get yourself one of those .
Problem solved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
I have a T-shirt that says "Fix your own #@$^&amp;!
computer."

Get yourself one of those.
Problem solved.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074674</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076062</id>
	<title>Format &amp; Reload</title>
	<author>OhHellWithIt</author>
	<datestamp>1258053480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Instead of reloading Windows after you format, install a Linux distribution. Problem solved. Or, if you insist on reinstalling Windows, get <a href="http://www.blueridgenetworks.com/" title="blueridgenetworks.com" rel="nofollow">AppGuard</a> [blueridgenetworks.com], which will block the stuff your anti-virus misses. (Full disclosure: I work for the company that produces it, but it's kept my daughter's computer virus-free for six months now.)
</p><p>Also, as others have suggested, a Mac will reduce your workload, but I consider Apple to be even more of a dictatorship than Microsoft.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Instead of reloading Windows after you format , install a Linux distribution .
Problem solved .
Or , if you insist on reinstalling Windows , get AppGuard [ blueridgenetworks.com ] , which will block the stuff your anti-virus misses .
( Full disclosure : I work for the company that produces it , but it 's kept my daughter 's computer virus-free for six months now .
) Also , as others have suggested , a Mac will reduce your workload , but I consider Apple to be even more of a dictatorship than Microsoft .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Instead of reloading Windows after you format, install a Linux distribution.
Problem solved.
Or, if you insist on reinstalling Windows, get AppGuard [blueridgenetworks.com], which will block the stuff your anti-virus misses.
(Full disclosure: I work for the company that produces it, but it's kept my daughter's computer virus-free for six months now.
)
Also, as others have suggested, a Mac will reduce your workload, but I consider Apple to be even more of a dictatorship than Microsoft.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30089276</id>
	<title>ubuntu lve cd and a flash drive</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258139340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>NO Hope.</p><p>They don't care to understand the what, the why etc. as long as you keep fixing it they will keep doing it.</p><p>I switched my 72y/o father to Ubuntu he hates it. but then he hated windows but actually he hates everything and isn't happy unless he is unhappy and bitching.</p><p>He is not to the live cd point yet but he has come close.</p><p>I am not the most advanced Ubuntu user but i can get what needs doing done, man pages or by "just Google it".</p><p>I stripped his install down he's got solitaire open office and Firefox.</p><p>I gave him a flash drive showed him how to save to it and said if he screws it up i will not try to fix it i will only reload it. Ubuntu is just 1 cd all the apps and some config files on my flash drive is it takes. Ubuntu is so much faster to reload i don't have to track down keys and fight to activate it then track down all the media and reload office more keys and activation bs.  the Ubuntu update process is much more streamlined an no anti virus software to update.</p><p>I told him i will not try to recover any files that are not saved on the flash drive plugged in the back of it. so far so good he is not happy about it but nothing will make him happy.</p><p>I regularly pop out the flash drive and back it up  when hes is not around.</p><p>with the drive plugged in the back its out of sight and out of mind so no fiddly fingers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>NO Hope.They do n't care to understand the what , the why etc .
as long as you keep fixing it they will keep doing it.I switched my 72y/o father to Ubuntu he hates it .
but then he hated windows but actually he hates everything and is n't happy unless he is unhappy and bitching.He is not to the live cd point yet but he has come close.I am not the most advanced Ubuntu user but i can get what needs doing done , man pages or by " just Google it " .I stripped his install down he 's got solitaire open office and Firefox.I gave him a flash drive showed him how to save to it and said if he screws it up i will not try to fix it i will only reload it .
Ubuntu is just 1 cd all the apps and some config files on my flash drive is it takes .
Ubuntu is so much faster to reload i do n't have to track down keys and fight to activate it then track down all the media and reload office more keys and activation bs .
the Ubuntu update process is much more streamlined an no anti virus software to update.I told him i will not try to recover any files that are not saved on the flash drive plugged in the back of it .
so far so good he is not happy about it but nothing will make him happy.I regularly pop out the flash drive and back it up when hes is not around.with the drive plugged in the back its out of sight and out of mind so no fiddly fingers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>NO Hope.They don't care to understand the what, the why etc.
as long as you keep fixing it they will keep doing it.I switched my 72y/o father to Ubuntu he hates it.
but then he hated windows but actually he hates everything and isn't happy unless he is unhappy and bitching.He is not to the live cd point yet but he has come close.I am not the most advanced Ubuntu user but i can get what needs doing done, man pages or by "just Google it".I stripped his install down he's got solitaire open office and Firefox.I gave him a flash drive showed him how to save to it and said if he screws it up i will not try to fix it i will only reload it.
Ubuntu is just 1 cd all the apps and some config files on my flash drive is it takes.
Ubuntu is so much faster to reload i don't have to track down keys and fight to activate it then track down all the media and reload office more keys and activation bs.
the Ubuntu update process is much more streamlined an no anti virus software to update.I told him i will not try to recover any files that are not saved on the flash drive plugged in the back of it.
so far so good he is not happy about it but nothing will make him happy.I regularly pop out the flash drive and back it up  when hes is not around.with the drive plugged in the back its out of sight and out of mind so no fiddly fingers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077030</id>
	<title>Re:Get a Mac</title>
	<author>hideouspenguinboy</author>
	<datestamp>1258056720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Agreed - I got my family Macintoshs and never looked back - I've had maybe 2? things to fix in the last 5 years on my parents and wife's computer.  All the headaches went away and my user base wouldn't go back to windows for anything.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed - I got my family Macintoshs and never looked back - I 've had maybe 2 ?
things to fix in the last 5 years on my parents and wife 's computer .
All the headaches went away and my user base would n't go back to windows for anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed - I got my family Macintoshs and never looked back - I've had maybe 2?
things to fix in the last 5 years on my parents and wife's computer.
All the headaches went away and my user base wouldn't go back to windows for anything.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076310</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30082482</id>
	<title>Re:The butterfly Parable AGREED, 110\%... apk</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258037640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><div class="quote"><p><b>"When we coach others it is helpful to recognize when people need to do things for themselves."</b> - by Martin Spamer (244245)<br>on Thursday November 12, @12:16PM (#30074754) Homepage</p></div><p>I agree, because "The hotter the fire, the stronger the steel" (provided it doesn't melt the steel, that is, lol)... some help is GOOD, a bit of 'coaching' (which is what I am about here in fact, per the URL below), but, overall? I TEND TO AGREE WITH YOU COMPLETELY!</p><p>NOW - Here is what has worked for myself, paying customers, family &amp; friends (whom I have done this for, but they no longer USUALLY need me after it) - as far as setting up &amp; securing machines on Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003, &amp; yes, even Windows 7 now (and, it works):</p><p>Most of what you need for a STABLE &amp; SAFE Windows system? IT IS ALREADY IN THE SYSTEM! It's part "security hardening", &amp; part "behavioral modification" online...</p><p>(AND, it's doable, for around 1-2 hrs. of your time up front, &amp; via free tools the OS already has, or, that it's install media does (like Recovery Console, for example), or freebie tools like ProcessExplorer &amp; far more)</p><p><b>It is COMPLETELY DOABLE, &amp; for ANY user who is willing to "put in the time up-front", around 1-2 hrs. tops to secure his system PRIOR to going online, can enjoy years TO DECADES of stable, safe, secure uptime... yes, even on a Windows machine!</b> (E.G.-&gt; The last 3 system I have had, had run + stayed "solid/secure/safe" for the entire 5-7 yr. run each enjoyed (&amp; I only 'took them down' when I put new OS' onto completely new mobos &amp; such, replacing the former machines basically)).</p><p>SO... how's one supposed to do THAT?</p><p>Ok - read here:</p><p>----</p><p><b>HOW TO SECURE Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003, + even VISTA</b>(&amp; beyond)<b>, via CIS Tool Guidance</b> (&amp; more):</p><p><a href="http://www.tcmagazine.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2662" title="tcmagazine.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.tcmagazine.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2662</a> [tcmagazine.com]</p><p>----</p><p>It's currently @ around 250,000++ views worldwide across 20 or so forums, &amp; on 15/20 it was made either an:</p><p>1.) Essential Guide<br>2.) Made a "sticky/pinned thread"<br>3.) Rated 5/5 stars</p><p>BUT, most importantly, are the results folks who FOLLOWED IT TO THE LETTER ARE EXPERIENCING (as well as their customer, as in this gent's case next below as an example/proof thereof):</p><p>----</p><p><a href="http://www.xtremepccentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28430&amp;page=3" title="xtremepccentral.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.xtremepccentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28430&amp;page=3</a> [xtremepccentral.com]</p><p><b>People such as THRONKA @ XtremePCCentral.com here stated, verbatim by he:</b></p><p>"Its 2009 - still trouble free! I was told last week by a co worker who does active directory administration, and he said I was doing overkill. I told him yes, but I just eliminated the half life in windows that you usually get. He said good point. So from 2008 till 2009. No speed decreases, its been to a lan party, moved around in a move, and it still NEVER has had the OS reinstalled besides the fact I imaged the drive over in 2008. Great stuff!"</p><p>----</p><p>So, there you are - just a SINGLE EXAMPLE THEREOF, of many enjoying the same thing.</p><p>(Windows Security? ENTIRELY DOABLE... however, it demands a bit of your time, "up front"/first is all - albeit, for years to decades of stable safe uptime, into the distance)...</p><p>APK</p><p>P.S.=&gt; It works - HOWEVER, to do that guide's steps + get its benefits, well... a person has to "take initiative" &amp; read it + apply its points, TO THE LETTER... &amp; change (perhaps) some of the things they do online as well (some behavioral modifications, but not "radical ones", are involved also)... apk</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" When we coach others it is helpful to recognize when people need to do things for themselves .
" - by Martin Spamer ( 244245 ) on Thursday November 12 , @ 12 : 16PM ( # 30074754 ) HomepageI agree , because " The hotter the fire , the stronger the steel " ( provided it does n't melt the steel , that is , lol ) ... some help is GOOD , a bit of 'coaching ' ( which is what I am about here in fact , per the URL below ) , but , overall ?
I TEND TO AGREE WITH YOU COMPLETELY ! NOW - Here is what has worked for myself , paying customers , family &amp; friends ( whom I have done this for , but they no longer USUALLY need me after it ) - as far as setting up &amp; securing machines on Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003 , &amp; yes , even Windows 7 now ( and , it works ) : Most of what you need for a STABLE &amp; SAFE Windows system ?
IT IS ALREADY IN THE SYSTEM !
It 's part " security hardening " , &amp; part " behavioral modification " online... ( AND , it 's doable , for around 1-2 hrs .
of your time up front , &amp; via free tools the OS already has , or , that it 's install media does ( like Recovery Console , for example ) , or freebie tools like ProcessExplorer &amp; far more ) It is COMPLETELY DOABLE , &amp; for ANY user who is willing to " put in the time up-front " , around 1-2 hrs .
tops to secure his system PRIOR to going online , can enjoy years TO DECADES of stable , safe , secure uptime... yes , even on a Windows machine !
( E.G.- &gt; The last 3 system I have had , had run + stayed " solid/secure/safe " for the entire 5-7 yr. run each enjoyed ( &amp; I only 'took them down ' when I put new OS ' onto completely new mobos &amp; such , replacing the former machines basically ) ) .SO... how 's one supposed to do THAT ? Ok - read here : ----HOW TO SECURE Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003 , + even VISTA ( &amp; beyond ) , via CIS Tool Guidance ( &amp; more ) : http : //www.tcmagazine.com/forums/index.php ? showtopic = 2662 [ tcmagazine.com ] ----It 's currently @ around 250,000 + + views worldwide across 20 or so forums , &amp; on 15/20 it was made either an : 1 .
) Essential Guide2 .
) Made a " sticky/pinned thread " 3 .
) Rated 5/5 starsBUT , most importantly , are the results folks who FOLLOWED IT TO THE LETTER ARE EXPERIENCING ( as well as their customer , as in this gent 's case next below as an example/proof thereof ) : ----http : //www.xtremepccentral.com/forums/showthread.php ? t = 28430&amp;page = 3 [ xtremepccentral.com ] People such as THRONKA @ XtremePCCentral.com here stated , verbatim by he : " Its 2009 - still trouble free !
I was told last week by a co worker who does active directory administration , and he said I was doing overkill .
I told him yes , but I just eliminated the half life in windows that you usually get .
He said good point .
So from 2008 till 2009 .
No speed decreases , its been to a lan party , moved around in a move , and it still NEVER has had the OS reinstalled besides the fact I imaged the drive over in 2008 .
Great stuff !
" ----So , there you are - just a SINGLE EXAMPLE THEREOF , of many enjoying the same thing .
( Windows Security ?
ENTIRELY DOABLE... however , it demands a bit of your time , " up front " /first is all - albeit , for years to decades of stable safe uptime , into the distance ) ...APKP.S. = &gt; It works - HOWEVER , to do that guide 's steps + get its benefits , well... a person has to " take initiative " &amp; read it + apply its points , TO THE LETTER... &amp; change ( perhaps ) some of the things they do online as well ( some behavioral modifications , but not " radical ones " , are involved also ) ... apk</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"When we coach others it is helpful to recognize when people need to do things for themselves.
" - by Martin Spamer (244245)on Thursday November 12, @12:16PM (#30074754) HomepageI agree, because "The hotter the fire, the stronger the steel" (provided it doesn't melt the steel, that is, lol)... some help is GOOD, a bit of 'coaching' (which is what I am about here in fact, per the URL below), but, overall?
I TEND TO AGREE WITH YOU COMPLETELY!NOW - Here is what has worked for myself, paying customers, family &amp; friends (whom I have done this for, but they no longer USUALLY need me after it) - as far as setting up &amp; securing machines on Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003, &amp; yes, even Windows 7 now (and, it works):Most of what you need for a STABLE &amp; SAFE Windows system?
IT IS ALREADY IN THE SYSTEM!
It's part "security hardening", &amp; part "behavioral modification" online...(AND, it's doable, for around 1-2 hrs.
of your time up front, &amp; via free tools the OS already has, or, that it's install media does (like Recovery Console, for example), or freebie tools like ProcessExplorer &amp; far more)It is COMPLETELY DOABLE, &amp; for ANY user who is willing to "put in the time up-front", around 1-2 hrs.
tops to secure his system PRIOR to going online, can enjoy years TO DECADES of stable, safe, secure uptime... yes, even on a Windows machine!
(E.G.-&gt; The last 3 system I have had, had run + stayed "solid/secure/safe" for the entire 5-7 yr. run each enjoyed (&amp; I only 'took them down' when I put new OS' onto completely new mobos &amp; such, replacing the former machines basically)).SO... how's one supposed to do THAT?Ok - read here:----HOW TO SECURE Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003, + even VISTA(&amp; beyond), via CIS Tool Guidance (&amp; more):http://www.tcmagazine.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2662 [tcmagazine.com]----It's currently @ around 250,000++ views worldwide across 20 or so forums, &amp; on 15/20 it was made either an:1.
) Essential Guide2.
) Made a "sticky/pinned thread"3.
) Rated 5/5 starsBUT, most importantly, are the results folks who FOLLOWED IT TO THE LETTER ARE EXPERIENCING (as well as their customer, as in this gent's case next below as an example/proof thereof):----http://www.xtremepccentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28430&amp;page=3 [xtremepccentral.com]People such as THRONKA @ XtremePCCentral.com here stated, verbatim by he:"Its 2009 - still trouble free!
I was told last week by a co worker who does active directory administration, and he said I was doing overkill.
I told him yes, but I just eliminated the half life in windows that you usually get.
He said good point.
So from 2008 till 2009.
No speed decreases, its been to a lan party, moved around in a move, and it still NEVER has had the OS reinstalled besides the fact I imaged the drive over in 2008.
Great stuff!
"----So, there you are - just a SINGLE EXAMPLE THEREOF, of many enjoying the same thing.
(Windows Security?
ENTIRELY DOABLE... however, it demands a bit of your time, "up front"/first is all - albeit, for years to decades of stable safe uptime, into the distance)...APKP.S.=&gt; It works - HOWEVER, to do that guide's steps + get its benefits, well... a person has to "take initiative" &amp; read it + apply its points, TO THE LETTER... &amp; change (perhaps) some of the things they do online as well (some behavioral modifications, but not "radical ones", are involved also)... apk
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076746</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>Joce640k</author>
	<datestamp>1258055700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You probably don't even need that.</p><p>a) Set an administrator password, make them all non-admins. Do NOT tell them the admin password, EVER.</p><p>b) Get some disk imaging software so you never have to "reformat and reinstall everything".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You probably do n't even need that.a ) Set an administrator password , make them all non-admins .
Do NOT tell them the admin password , EVER.b ) Get some disk imaging software so you never have to " reformat and reinstall everything " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You probably don't even need that.a) Set an administrator password, make them all non-admins.
Do NOT tell them the admin password, EVER.b) Get some disk imaging software so you never have to "reformat and reinstall everything".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074676</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075326</id>
	<title>Re:Buy them a Mac</title>
	<author>Pascal Sartoretti</author>
	<datestamp>1258051200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Buy them a Mac <b>and</b> don't give them administrator privileges. That's what I did for my parents and my mother-in-law. The only downside : once in a while they will need you to install something which requires admin privileges.<p>I guess the same would work for Ubuntu, but OS X is still more user friendly and more common.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Buy them a Mac and do n't give them administrator privileges .
That 's what I did for my parents and my mother-in-law .
The only downside : once in a while they will need you to install something which requires admin privileges.I guess the same would work for Ubuntu , but OS X is still more user friendly and more common .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Buy them a Mac and don't give them administrator privileges.
That's what I did for my parents and my mother-in-law.
The only downside : once in a while they will need you to install something which requires admin privileges.I guess the same would work for Ubuntu, but OS X is still more user friendly and more common.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074696</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076990</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>Machtyn</author>
	<datestamp>1258056600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yeah, tell that to my brother who's had his Mac crash on him 8 times a day.  He facebooked the issue from a PC.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , tell that to my brother who 's had his Mac crash on him 8 times a day .
He facebooked the issue from a PC .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, tell that to my brother who's had his Mac crash on him 8 times a day.
He facebooked the issue from a PC.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075744</id>
	<title>I eased this problem by...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258052460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Having two of my brothers switch to Macs...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Having two of my brothers switch to Macs.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having two of my brothers switch to Macs...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076418</id>
	<title>Well of course there are!</title>
	<author>WheelDweller</author>
	<datestamp>1258054560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was plucked from my career in Chicago to become Mom's caregiver, a little over 8 years ago.  I'm tech support for two houses, separated by 3 miles. But in that time I've never removed a single virus, an errant program, much less malware, and when things get weird, it's because the underlying hardware is failing.</p><p>Linux.  There's GOT to be a reason I keep talking about it.</p><p>Go get a copy of Ubuntu's "Karmic Koala" version of their desktop software. Install it and get used to OpenOffice instead of MS Office, Firefox instead of InternetExploder, and learn what it's like to have no unsafe places on the net.  To enjoy downloaded TV at your leisure, without being denied by your OS.</p><p>Seriously: it's SO simple. It's solid. Heck, wouldn't it be cool to check out how the other folks live?</p><p><a href="http://ubuntu.com/" title="ubuntu.com" rel="nofollow">http://ubuntu.com/</a> [ubuntu.com]</p><p>Enjoy!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was plucked from my career in Chicago to become Mom 's caregiver , a little over 8 years ago .
I 'm tech support for two houses , separated by 3 miles .
But in that time I 've never removed a single virus , an errant program , much less malware , and when things get weird , it 's because the underlying hardware is failing.Linux .
There 's GOT to be a reason I keep talking about it.Go get a copy of Ubuntu 's " Karmic Koala " version of their desktop software .
Install it and get used to OpenOffice instead of MS Office , Firefox instead of InternetExploder , and learn what it 's like to have no unsafe places on the net .
To enjoy downloaded TV at your leisure , without being denied by your OS.Seriously : it 's SO simple .
It 's solid .
Heck , would n't it be cool to check out how the other folks live ? http : //ubuntu.com/ [ ubuntu.com ] Enjoy !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was plucked from my career in Chicago to become Mom's caregiver, a little over 8 years ago.
I'm tech support for two houses, separated by 3 miles.
But in that time I've never removed a single virus, an errant program, much less malware, and when things get weird, it's because the underlying hardware is failing.Linux.
There's GOT to be a reason I keep talking about it.Go get a copy of Ubuntu's "Karmic Koala" version of their desktop software.
Install it and get used to OpenOffice instead of MS Office, Firefox instead of InternetExploder, and learn what it's like to have no unsafe places on the net.
To enjoy downloaded TV at your leisure, without being denied by your OS.Seriously: it's SO simple.
It's solid.
Heck, wouldn't it be cool to check out how the other folks live?http://ubuntu.com/ [ubuntu.com]Enjoy!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075294</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258051140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That would break the first rule of tech support:</p><p>1. Do not do anything above or beyond what this person needs to see to "know" that the problem is fixed (their problem, not your problem).</p><p>You may see a hundred things wrong with the computer, but they don't. All they know is that since you fixed all those problems that didn't exist, something is different. And guess what? Now it's your problem to fix it again.</p><p>Do exactly what needs to be done to fix <i>their</i> problem, and no more. If they are interested in linux, they will come to you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That would break the first rule of tech support : 1 .
Do not do anything above or beyond what this person needs to see to " know " that the problem is fixed ( their problem , not your problem ) .You may see a hundred things wrong with the computer , but they do n't .
All they know is that since you fixed all those problems that did n't exist , something is different .
And guess what ?
Now it 's your problem to fix it again.Do exactly what needs to be done to fix their problem , and no more .
If they are interested in linux , they will come to you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That would break the first rule of tech support:1.
Do not do anything above or beyond what this person needs to see to "know" that the problem is fixed (their problem, not your problem).You may see a hundred things wrong with the computer, but they don't.
All they know is that since you fixed all those problems that didn't exist, something is different.
And guess what?
Now it's your problem to fix it again.Do exactly what needs to be done to fix their problem, and no more.
If they are interested in linux, they will come to you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074684</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30080826</id>
	<title>Re:Windows 7 will solve your problem</title>
	<author>jaavaaguru</author>
	<datestamp>1258027200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>More stable than that which has never crashed in a time period that is several times the age of Windows 7? It's not possible to back up that claim, whether it's Mac OS X or Windows XP that you're comparing Windows 7 to. It's been years since I saw any stability problems in either of them with normal everyday use. Windows 7 simply hasn't been around long enough to make that comparison.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>More stable than that which has never crashed in a time period that is several times the age of Windows 7 ?
It 's not possible to back up that claim , whether it 's Mac OS X or Windows XP that you 're comparing Windows 7 to .
It 's been years since I saw any stability problems in either of them with normal everyday use .
Windows 7 simply has n't been around long enough to make that comparison .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>More stable than that which has never crashed in a time period that is several times the age of Windows 7?
It's not possible to back up that claim, whether it's Mac OS X or Windows XP that you're comparing Windows 7 to.
It's been years since I saw any stability problems in either of them with normal everyday use.
Windows 7 simply hasn't been around long enough to make that comparison.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075510</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075580</id>
	<title>Re:You have the control, so use it!</title>
	<author>BForrester</author>
	<datestamp>1258051920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Exactly.  And if you want to save some travel, install a remote-desktop app so that if they need a quick install of something you approve of, it's only a strong password and "allow RD" request away.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly .
And if you want to save some travel , install a remote-desktop app so that if they need a quick install of something you approve of , it 's only a strong password and " allow RD " request away .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly.
And if you want to save some travel, install a remote-desktop app so that if they need a quick install of something you approve of, it's only a strong password and "allow RD" request away.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074830</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075624</id>
	<title>Don't break the feedback loop</title>
	<author>noidentity</author>
	<datestamp>1258052100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>By fixing their computers, presumably without charge, you are breaking the feedback loop that results in cost to them every time their computer gets infected, and a signal for them to take the time to prevent them. With no cost to themselves, they become like government, pushing the cost on to someone else and not caring.</htmltext>
<tokenext>By fixing their computers , presumably without charge , you are breaking the feedback loop that results in cost to them every time their computer gets infected , and a signal for them to take the time to prevent them .
With no cost to themselves , they become like government , pushing the cost on to someone else and not caring .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>By fixing their computers, presumably without charge, you are breaking the feedback loop that results in cost to them every time their computer gets infected, and a signal for them to take the time to prevent them.
With no cost to themselves, they become like government, pushing the cost on to someone else and not caring.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076974</id>
	<title>Re:The butterfly Parable</title>
	<author>euxneks</author>
	<datestamp>1258056540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>in life we all need to struggle sometimes to make us strong.</p></div><p>This sounds like Microsoft's methodology for user interface.</p><p>"It gives em character!!!"</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>in life we all need to struggle sometimes to make us strong.This sounds like Microsoft 's methodology for user interface .
" It gives em character ! ! !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>in life we all need to struggle sometimes to make us strong.This sounds like Microsoft's methodology for user interface.
"It gives em character!!!
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075702</id>
	<title>Easing the Job of Family Tech Support?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258052340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You know what works?<br>Forcing them to go to a repair shop a few times and paying $65+ an hour.</p><p>Pain teaches.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You know what works ? Forcing them to go to a repair shop a few times and paying $ 65 + an hour.Pain teaches .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know what works?Forcing them to go to a repair shop a few times and paying $65+ an hour.Pain teaches.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078186</id>
	<title>Re:Lessons learned from too many years in that rol</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258017600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Teach them to download everything to a single source on the data drive to make scanning and root cause easier.</p></div><p>That phrase does not mean what you think it means<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. The root cause of the issue is known, it is "stupid user"</p><p>http://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newTMC\_80.htm</p><p>another idiot that just spouts buzzwords without knowing what they mean.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Teach them to download everything to a single source on the data drive to make scanning and root cause easier.That phrase does not mean what you think it means .. The root cause of the issue is known , it is " stupid user " http : //www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newTMC \ _80.htmanother idiot that just spouts buzzwords without knowing what they mean .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Teach them to download everything to a single source on the data drive to make scanning and root cause easier.That phrase does not mean what you think it means .. The root cause of the issue is known, it is "stupid user"http://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newTMC\_80.htmanother idiot that just spouts buzzwords without knowing what they mean.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075202</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076284</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>segoy</author>
	<datestamp>1258054200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Last time I had to help a relative move a malware infestation I was asked what I charge for the service. My response was $150. But, I added, if you let me migrate you to a Mac, I'll waive the fee and migrate you for free...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Last time I had to help a relative move a malware infestation I was asked what I charge for the service .
My response was $ 150 .
But , I added , if you let me migrate you to a Mac , I 'll waive the fee and migrate you for free.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Last time I had to help a relative move a malware infestation I was asked what I charge for the service.
My response was $150.
But, I added, if you let me migrate you to a Mac, I'll waive the fee and migrate you for free...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075110</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258050600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is that like breaking a dish every time they ask you to wash them?  They'll learn pretty quick not to ask.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;D</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is that like breaking a dish every time they ask you to wash them ?
They 'll learn pretty quick not to ask .
; D</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is that like breaking a dish every time they ask you to wash them?
They'll learn pretty quick not to ask.
;D</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074684</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078424</id>
	<title>Re:Tell them to stop using Windows</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258018620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I liked mac until I had to buy my own computer, and in 1996, for what I wanted to do, the mac was just too expensive. I LOVED Windows 98, 2000, and XP. I got so frustrated with the reinstalls and how long they would take to get things right. Between SP1 and SP2 they got more frequent. Sometimes it made sense why it would die (I tend to be aggressively experimental), and other times it would just be completely stupid. When I tried Ubuntu Edgy Eft, It was amazing that any time anything broke it was fairly easy to look things up and reverse the damage either from recovery mode, or a LiveCD. One year of dual booting before I realised that for as much as there was to learn about Linux, it was all useful, in a respect, and fairly easy to explain to another person. Windows has strange voodoo tricks that really can't be explained beyond "That's just Windows", and in many ways nothing about "figuring out windows" ever made much of anything any easier.</p><p>When I helped people with windows, it always seemed to be the same problems with certain people over and over. On Ubuntu, I really haven't ever needed to show the same person how to fix something twice. They just get it. It really feels much more worth my time to show someone how to use something when they learn from the experience.<br>
&nbsp; <br>I finally found the thing that fixed Windows, and that was getting rid of it completely. I get that some people can't do that, I just don't have any sympathy any more. I love saying "but I thought Windows 'just works'".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I liked mac until I had to buy my own computer , and in 1996 , for what I wanted to do , the mac was just too expensive .
I LOVED Windows 98 , 2000 , and XP .
I got so frustrated with the reinstalls and how long they would take to get things right .
Between SP1 and SP2 they got more frequent .
Sometimes it made sense why it would die ( I tend to be aggressively experimental ) , and other times it would just be completely stupid .
When I tried Ubuntu Edgy Eft , It was amazing that any time anything broke it was fairly easy to look things up and reverse the damage either from recovery mode , or a LiveCD .
One year of dual booting before I realised that for as much as there was to learn about Linux , it was all useful , in a respect , and fairly easy to explain to another person .
Windows has strange voodoo tricks that really ca n't be explained beyond " That 's just Windows " , and in many ways nothing about " figuring out windows " ever made much of anything any easier.When I helped people with windows , it always seemed to be the same problems with certain people over and over .
On Ubuntu , I really have n't ever needed to show the same person how to fix something twice .
They just get it .
It really feels much more worth my time to show someone how to use something when they learn from the experience .
  I finally found the thing that fixed Windows , and that was getting rid of it completely .
I get that some people ca n't do that , I just do n't have any sympathy any more .
I love saying " but I thought Windows 'just works ' " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I liked mac until I had to buy my own computer, and in 1996, for what I wanted to do, the mac was just too expensive.
I LOVED Windows 98, 2000, and XP.
I got so frustrated with the reinstalls and how long they would take to get things right.
Between SP1 and SP2 they got more frequent.
Sometimes it made sense why it would die (I tend to be aggressively experimental), and other times it would just be completely stupid.
When I tried Ubuntu Edgy Eft, It was amazing that any time anything broke it was fairly easy to look things up and reverse the damage either from recovery mode, or a LiveCD.
One year of dual booting before I realised that for as much as there was to learn about Linux, it was all useful, in a respect, and fairly easy to explain to another person.
Windows has strange voodoo tricks that really can't be explained beyond "That's just Windows", and in many ways nothing about "figuring out windows" ever made much of anything any easier.When I helped people with windows, it always seemed to be the same problems with certain people over and over.
On Ubuntu, I really haven't ever needed to show the same person how to fix something twice.
They just get it.
It really feels much more worth my time to show someone how to use something when they learn from the experience.
  I finally found the thing that fixed Windows, and that was getting rid of it completely.
I get that some people can't do that, I just don't have any sympathy any more.
I love saying "but I thought Windows 'just works'".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074724</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30104130</id>
	<title>GNU/Linux</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258224300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>These questions amaze me. How can anyone even ask this? I mean. If this were 1998 fine. It is 2009 and GNU/Linux works for most average users. You just have to force them to switch. It isn't any harder than moving to Vista/Windows 7 so anybody who fails to assist the family in switching has only themselves to blame. Stop using MS Windows and stop 'fixing' something that doesn't work to begin with. If the system doesn't work with GNU/Linux make sure the next system does by buying something designed for Linux! ThinkPenguin also sells "designed for Linux" systems that are free and fully supported<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/w the end-user support average joes need- so to a large degree you don't even have to deal with all the issues yourself. System76, LinuxCertified, and some others also sell laptops that mostly work. My experience is you rarely get 100\% compatible systems from these companies though. I've pretty much bought from every one of these companies. None of them (except thinkpenguin) really design for GNU/Linux. They use non-free graphics drivers and stuff that interferes with forward compatibility and/or full support (no suspend to ram when 3d acceleration is enabled for instance). And Dell is just horrible period. Don't go there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>These questions amaze me .
How can anyone even ask this ?
I mean .
If this were 1998 fine .
It is 2009 and GNU/Linux works for most average users .
You just have to force them to switch .
It is n't any harder than moving to Vista/Windows 7 so anybody who fails to assist the family in switching has only themselves to blame .
Stop using MS Windows and stop 'fixing ' something that does n't work to begin with .
If the system does n't work with GNU/Linux make sure the next system does by buying something designed for Linux !
ThinkPenguin also sells " designed for Linux " systems that are free and fully supported /w the end-user support average joes need- so to a large degree you do n't even have to deal with all the issues yourself .
System76 , LinuxCertified , and some others also sell laptops that mostly work .
My experience is you rarely get 100 \ % compatible systems from these companies though .
I 've pretty much bought from every one of these companies .
None of them ( except thinkpenguin ) really design for GNU/Linux .
They use non-free graphics drivers and stuff that interferes with forward compatibility and/or full support ( no suspend to ram when 3d acceleration is enabled for instance ) .
And Dell is just horrible period .
Do n't go there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>These questions amaze me.
How can anyone even ask this?
I mean.
If this were 1998 fine.
It is 2009 and GNU/Linux works for most average users.
You just have to force them to switch.
It isn't any harder than moving to Vista/Windows 7 so anybody who fails to assist the family in switching has only themselves to blame.
Stop using MS Windows and stop 'fixing' something that doesn't work to begin with.
If the system doesn't work with GNU/Linux make sure the next system does by buying something designed for Linux!
ThinkPenguin also sells "designed for Linux" systems that are free and fully supported /w the end-user support average joes need- so to a large degree you don't even have to deal with all the issues yourself.
System76, LinuxCertified, and some others also sell laptops that mostly work.
My experience is you rarely get 100\% compatible systems from these companies though.
I've pretty much bought from every one of these companies.
None of them (except thinkpenguin) really design for GNU/Linux.
They use non-free graphics drivers and stuff that interferes with forward compatibility and/or full support (no suspend to ram when 3d acceleration is enabled for instance).
And Dell is just horrible period.
Don't go there.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30084454</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>supernova\_hq</author>
	<datestamp>1258103760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>installing stuff with Synaptic is not going to cause security problems.</p></div><p>Just make sure you block port 22 on your router<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>installing stuff with Synaptic is not going to cause security problems.Just make sure you block port 22 on your router : P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>installing stuff with Synaptic is not going to cause security problems.Just make sure you block port 22 on your router :P
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076566</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30079180</id>
	<title>My Two Cents</title>
	<author>Voyager529</author>
	<datestamp>1258021380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Much of this has already been said, but I'll reiterate and add my own extensions to it:</p><p> 1.) If you're working for free, even for family, IT MUST BE ON YOUR TERMS. "I will continue to fix your machine for free if and only if you use it under these conditions...and yes, I WILL know if you're deviating. If you do, you'll get a bill at the end, the same as anyone else". Make sure you have those terms in hand, printed out, and posted near the machine for them to reference.</p><p> 2.) If they need to be kept on Windows for some reason...</p><p>       a.) I recommend Microsoft SteadyState or Faronics DeepFreeze (the former being free), and either a secondary document partition or a secondary hard disk (for the $40-$80 it costs for a second HDD, I tend to go with that) to which their profile is stored. If they're using Win7, redirect all the libraries there as well.</p><p>       b.) Grab a copy of Acronis True Image and make a disk image the next time you format. This will reduce the amount of time you spend rebuilding, especially in conjunction with having their user profile on the second drive. While Acronis is still my favorite disk imaging product, Win7 also has made huge strides in their backup utility, which can create a disk image that can be restored using the install CD.</p><p>       c.) Check out ESET's NOD32 Antivirus program. It's very effective, doesn't bog the system down, and can be password protected to ensure that it doesn't get disabled. If possible, bill it to YOUR credit card and have the key sent to YOUR e-mail address. This way, you can ensure that it is always up to date, and you can say with confidence that if anything tells her that she's got a virus and to pay to remove it that it is a scam, since you are absolutely certain that she is covered.</p><p>       d.) As has been said, no Admin for them, period.</p><p>3.) If you're going to go the Linux route...</p><p>       a.) I've had the most success with Linux Mint with regards to user acceptance.</p><p>       b.) It might take an entire Saturday, but check to make sure that EVERYTHING works properly! See how the system is set up BEFORE you wipe it. Do your best to mimic this setup as best you can before you sit them down on it the first time.</p><p>       c.) Are they running at a lower resolution so they can read the print? Does it appear that they rely on some Windows-only apps that will require WINE or some kind of VM? Do all of their peripherals work properly? Is their hardware properly detected? Does their wireless card's Linux drivers support the encryption type that the router does? Do they make extensive use of Publisher or a greeting card program (that was the dealbreaker for my mom that brought her back to Windows)? Ask all these questions and then some, first. Us technically inclined people are better at "finding concepts" rather than "finding commands". "Screen Show" and "Slide Show" are close enough for us, but my mom near killed me when I had her try OpenOffice...and she reached for the knife when there was no "My Documents" folder for her to save it in.</p><p>You've heard from all the I-got-my-whole-family-to-switch-to-a-Mac people here, so I think that ground has been pretty well covered.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Much of this has already been said , but I 'll reiterate and add my own extensions to it : 1 .
) If you 're working for free , even for family , IT MUST BE ON YOUR TERMS .
" I will continue to fix your machine for free if and only if you use it under these conditions...and yes , I WILL know if you 're deviating .
If you do , you 'll get a bill at the end , the same as anyone else " .
Make sure you have those terms in hand , printed out , and posted near the machine for them to reference .
2. ) If they need to be kept on Windows for some reason.. .
a. ) I recommend Microsoft SteadyState or Faronics DeepFreeze ( the former being free ) , and either a secondary document partition or a secondary hard disk ( for the $ 40- $ 80 it costs for a second HDD , I tend to go with that ) to which their profile is stored .
If they 're using Win7 , redirect all the libraries there as well .
b. ) Grab a copy of Acronis True Image and make a disk image the next time you format .
This will reduce the amount of time you spend rebuilding , especially in conjunction with having their user profile on the second drive .
While Acronis is still my favorite disk imaging product , Win7 also has made huge strides in their backup utility , which can create a disk image that can be restored using the install CD .
c. ) Check out ESET 's NOD32 Antivirus program .
It 's very effective , does n't bog the system down , and can be password protected to ensure that it does n't get disabled .
If possible , bill it to YOUR credit card and have the key sent to YOUR e-mail address .
This way , you can ensure that it is always up to date , and you can say with confidence that if anything tells her that she 's got a virus and to pay to remove it that it is a scam , since you are absolutely certain that she is covered .
d. ) As has been said , no Admin for them , period.3 .
) If you 're going to go the Linux route.. .
a. ) I 've had the most success with Linux Mint with regards to user acceptance .
b. ) It might take an entire Saturday , but check to make sure that EVERYTHING works properly !
See how the system is set up BEFORE you wipe it .
Do your best to mimic this setup as best you can before you sit them down on it the first time .
c. ) Are they running at a lower resolution so they can read the print ?
Does it appear that they rely on some Windows-only apps that will require WINE or some kind of VM ?
Do all of their peripherals work properly ?
Is their hardware properly detected ?
Does their wireless card 's Linux drivers support the encryption type that the router does ?
Do they make extensive use of Publisher or a greeting card program ( that was the dealbreaker for my mom that brought her back to Windows ) ?
Ask all these questions and then some , first .
Us technically inclined people are better at " finding concepts " rather than " finding commands " .
" Screen Show " and " Slide Show " are close enough for us , but my mom near killed me when I had her try OpenOffice...and she reached for the knife when there was no " My Documents " folder for her to save it in.You 've heard from all the I-got-my-whole-family-to-switch-to-a-Mac people here , so I think that ground has been pretty well covered .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Much of this has already been said, but I'll reiterate and add my own extensions to it: 1.
) If you're working for free, even for family, IT MUST BE ON YOUR TERMS.
"I will continue to fix your machine for free if and only if you use it under these conditions...and yes, I WILL know if you're deviating.
If you do, you'll get a bill at the end, the same as anyone else".
Make sure you have those terms in hand, printed out, and posted near the machine for them to reference.
2.) If they need to be kept on Windows for some reason...
a.) I recommend Microsoft SteadyState or Faronics DeepFreeze (the former being free), and either a secondary document partition or a secondary hard disk (for the $40-$80 it costs for a second HDD, I tend to go with that) to which their profile is stored.
If they're using Win7, redirect all the libraries there as well.
b.) Grab a copy of Acronis True Image and make a disk image the next time you format.
This will reduce the amount of time you spend rebuilding, especially in conjunction with having their user profile on the second drive.
While Acronis is still my favorite disk imaging product, Win7 also has made huge strides in their backup utility, which can create a disk image that can be restored using the install CD.
c.) Check out ESET's NOD32 Antivirus program.
It's very effective, doesn't bog the system down, and can be password protected to ensure that it doesn't get disabled.
If possible, bill it to YOUR credit card and have the key sent to YOUR e-mail address.
This way, you can ensure that it is always up to date, and you can say with confidence that if anything tells her that she's got a virus and to pay to remove it that it is a scam, since you are absolutely certain that she is covered.
d.) As has been said, no Admin for them, period.3.
) If you're going to go the Linux route...
a.) I've had the most success with Linux Mint with regards to user acceptance.
b.) It might take an entire Saturday, but check to make sure that EVERYTHING works properly!
See how the system is set up BEFORE you wipe it.
Do your best to mimic this setup as best you can before you sit them down on it the first time.
c.) Are they running at a lower resolution so they can read the print?
Does it appear that they rely on some Windows-only apps that will require WINE or some kind of VM?
Do all of their peripherals work properly?
Is their hardware properly detected?
Does their wireless card's Linux drivers support the encryption type that the router does?
Do they make extensive use of Publisher or a greeting card program (that was the dealbreaker for my mom that brought her back to Windows)?
Ask all these questions and then some, first.
Us technically inclined people are better at "finding concepts" rather than "finding commands".
"Screen Show" and "Slide Show" are close enough for us, but my mom near killed me when I had her try OpenOffice...and she reached for the knife when there was no "My Documents" folder for her to save it in.You've heard from all the I-got-my-whole-family-to-switch-to-a-Mac people here, so I think that ground has been pretty well covered.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076738</id>
	<title>FloH Club</title>
	<author>daveywest</author>
	<datestamp>1258055640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Have you looked into FloH Club?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Have you looked into FloH Club ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have you looked into FloH Club?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075516</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>ITMagic</author>
	<datestamp>1258051740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'll second that. Not only does it reduce vulnerabilities, but my parents love the mac so much I no longer have to teach them how to use the machine. With the PC, mom could never work out what she was supposed to be doing...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll second that .
Not only does it reduce vulnerabilities , but my parents love the mac so much I no longer have to teach them how to use the machine .
With the PC , mom could never work out what she was supposed to be doing.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll second that.
Not only does it reduce vulnerabilities, but my parents love the mac so much I no longer have to teach them how to use the machine.
With the PC, mom could never work out what she was supposed to be doing...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075392</id>
	<title>Run windows in a virtual machine on Linux</title>
	<author>moz25</author>
	<datestamp>1258051380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about running Windows in a virtual machine (e.g. virtualbox.org) in Linux? You just have to configure it so that the VM starts in fullscreen mode automatically.</p><p>So, once installed to a state that you know is OK, you can simply make a snapshot image. If need be, it's easy to revert to that snapshot, or any future snapshots.</p><p>The only issue is going to be data. Well, you can store that on a separate partition and make daily/weekly backups using cron jobs. Now that 1TB and 1.5TB harddrives are standard, it should be no problem at all to have a liberal backup scheme.</p><p>Then, if there's some issue, you can simply SSH into the machine and revert to a working image and the machine will be reset to an acceptable state again.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about running Windows in a virtual machine ( e.g .
virtualbox.org ) in Linux ?
You just have to configure it so that the VM starts in fullscreen mode automatically.So , once installed to a state that you know is OK , you can simply make a snapshot image .
If need be , it 's easy to revert to that snapshot , or any future snapshots.The only issue is going to be data .
Well , you can store that on a separate partition and make daily/weekly backups using cron jobs .
Now that 1TB and 1.5TB harddrives are standard , it should be no problem at all to have a liberal backup scheme.Then , if there 's some issue , you can simply SSH into the machine and revert to a working image and the machine will be reset to an acceptable state again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about running Windows in a virtual machine (e.g.
virtualbox.org) in Linux?
You just have to configure it so that the VM starts in fullscreen mode automatically.So, once installed to a state that you know is OK, you can simply make a snapshot image.
If need be, it's easy to revert to that snapshot, or any future snapshots.The only issue is going to be data.
Well, you can store that on a separate partition and make daily/weekly backups using cron jobs.
Now that 1TB and 1.5TB harddrives are standard, it should be no problem at all to have a liberal backup scheme.Then, if there's some issue, you can simply SSH into the machine and revert to a working image and the machine will be reset to an acceptable state again.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30079956</id>
	<title>Re:Correct User Access</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258023840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I just use Firefox Portable at my work...updates just fine and avoids using the IE6 hell that our IT dept forces on us all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I just use Firefox Portable at my work...updates just fine and avoids using the IE6 hell that our IT dept forces on us all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just use Firefox Portable at my work...updates just fine and avoids using the IE6 hell that our IT dept forces on us all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075546</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075014</id>
	<title>Re:Correct User Access</title>
	<author>MTTECHYBOY</author>
	<datestamp>1258050300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree and have done the same thing - lock the machines down. might be a hassle once and a while but it saves time (and hassles) in the long run</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree and have done the same thing - lock the machines down .
might be a hassle once and a while but it saves time ( and hassles ) in the long run</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree and have done the same thing - lock the machines down.
might be a hassle once and a while but it saves time (and hassles) in the long run</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30080096</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258024320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why is this comment rated score 4, informative?  What is informative about telling the poster to use a different operating system?  Any good system administrator can get a Windows computer to work without issues for the most part.  Will there be some issues?  Of couse.  It is the price you pay for using an operating system that comes pre-installed on 98\% of new consumer computers.</p><p>The first thing I would recommend is to take the users out of the local admin group so they are no able to install programs.  This may create more work for you since you will have to remote in and install programs for them, but it will help with the malware and spayware.</p><p>Maybe if Ubuntu was as popular as Windows, it would have similiar issues.  Suggesting a different operating system is a pointless, useless comment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why is this comment rated score 4 , informative ?
What is informative about telling the poster to use a different operating system ?
Any good system administrator can get a Windows computer to work without issues for the most part .
Will there be some issues ?
Of couse .
It is the price you pay for using an operating system that comes pre-installed on 98 \ % of new consumer computers.The first thing I would recommend is to take the users out of the local admin group so they are no able to install programs .
This may create more work for you since you will have to remote in and install programs for them , but it will help with the malware and spayware.Maybe if Ubuntu was as popular as Windows , it would have similiar issues .
Suggesting a different operating system is a pointless , useless comment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why is this comment rated score 4, informative?
What is informative about telling the poster to use a different operating system?
Any good system administrator can get a Windows computer to work without issues for the most part.
Will there be some issues?
Of couse.
It is the price you pay for using an operating system that comes pre-installed on 98\% of new consumer computers.The first thing I would recommend is to take the users out of the local admin group so they are no able to install programs.
This may create more work for you since you will have to remote in and install programs for them, but it will help with the malware and spayware.Maybe if Ubuntu was as popular as Windows, it would have similiar issues.
Suggesting a different operating system is a pointless, useless comment.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075496</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078110</id>
	<title>BrainPop Computer Virus Video</title>
	<author>Senor Wences</author>
	<datestamp>1258017240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>BrainPop has a fun free video about computer viruses, worms, and trojan horses:</p><p><a href="http://www.brainpop.com/technology/computersandinternet/computerviruses/" title="brainpop.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.brainpop.com/technology/computersandinternet/computerviruses/</a> [brainpop.com]</p><p>I particularly like BrainPop because the videos are appropriate for younger people and contain enough humor that they don't pander to adults. Have your family members watch this video so they better understand what a virus does to the computers and how they can avoid messing up their computers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>BrainPop has a fun free video about computer viruses , worms , and trojan horses : http : //www.brainpop.com/technology/computersandinternet/computerviruses/ [ brainpop.com ] I particularly like BrainPop because the videos are appropriate for younger people and contain enough humor that they do n't pander to adults .
Have your family members watch this video so they better understand what a virus does to the computers and how they can avoid messing up their computers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>BrainPop has a fun free video about computer viruses, worms, and trojan horses:http://www.brainpop.com/technology/computersandinternet/computerviruses/ [brainpop.com]I particularly like BrainPop because the videos are appropriate for younger people and contain enough humor that they don't pander to adults.
Have your family members watch this video so they better understand what a virus does to the computers and how they can avoid messing up their computers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30096650</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258205760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are one sick puppy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are one sick puppy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are one sick puppy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30082432</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258037100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That never works for me.  The conversation usually goes like this:</p><p>"I don't use Windows, I haven't used Windows in years, and I NEVER used Internet Explorer. I can't fix your problem."<br>"You're good with computers, you can figure it out!"<br>"Fine." <br>"This isn't my Internet! Where's my blue E?"</p><p>The people that have the most problems are also the ones that don't understand OS differences and will not believe that explanation.</p><p>Of course, they're also the ones that won't notice when you give them a second-hand PC with Ubuntu.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That never works for me .
The conversation usually goes like this : " I do n't use Windows , I have n't used Windows in years , and I NEVER used Internet Explorer .
I ca n't fix your problem .
" " You 're good with computers , you can figure it out ! " " Fine .
" " This is n't my Internet !
Where 's my blue E ?
" The people that have the most problems are also the ones that do n't understand OS differences and will not believe that explanation.Of course , they 're also the ones that wo n't notice when you give them a second-hand PC with Ubuntu .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That never works for me.
The conversation usually goes like this:"I don't use Windows, I haven't used Windows in years, and I NEVER used Internet Explorer.
I can't fix your problem.
""You're good with computers, you can figure it out!""Fine.
" "This isn't my Internet!
Where's my blue E?
"The people that have the most problems are also the ones that don't understand OS differences and will not believe that explanation.Of course, they're also the ones that won't notice when you give them a second-hand PC with Ubuntu.
:)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075552</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075524</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>dferrantino</author>
	<datestamp>1258051740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Did this for my mother a few months ago. No complaints since. Took her all of 5 minutes to figure out how to use it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Did this for my mother a few months ago .
No complaints since .
Took her all of 5 minutes to figure out how to use it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did this for my mother a few months ago.
No complaints since.
Took her all of 5 minutes to figure out how to use it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074684</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075522</id>
	<title>What I did</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258051740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My 65-year-old mother-in-law was, until recently, using a beige Dell Dimension that she got in 2001 shortly after her divorce. Eight years later, she told my wife she wanted a new computer.</p><p>Placing her under explicit orders to not order whatever pops up when she goes to dell.com, we went to newegg, got her an Asus Eee Box and a HP 17" LCD monitor. I set it up in my house, installed Ubuntu 9.04 and OpenOffice.org, Evolution to read her comcast.net e-mail via POP, Firefox set to default to comcast.net, a one-line bug fix to keep X from blacking out, and delivered the final product to her house--she lives 2.4 miles from us.</p><p>Several months later, and it's still working perfectly. Heck, she can even understand and install the software updates, which is a matter of pushing the big green checkmark button and typing in her password. That's even easier than it is in XP.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My 65-year-old mother-in-law was , until recently , using a beige Dell Dimension that she got in 2001 shortly after her divorce .
Eight years later , she told my wife she wanted a new computer.Placing her under explicit orders to not order whatever pops up when she goes to dell.com , we went to newegg , got her an Asus Eee Box and a HP 17 " LCD monitor .
I set it up in my house , installed Ubuntu 9.04 and OpenOffice.org , Evolution to read her comcast.net e-mail via POP , Firefox set to default to comcast.net , a one-line bug fix to keep X from blacking out , and delivered the final product to her house--she lives 2.4 miles from us.Several months later , and it 's still working perfectly .
Heck , she can even understand and install the software updates , which is a matter of pushing the big green checkmark button and typing in her password .
That 's even easier than it is in XP .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My 65-year-old mother-in-law was, until recently, using a beige Dell Dimension that she got in 2001 shortly after her divorce.
Eight years later, she told my wife she wanted a new computer.Placing her under explicit orders to not order whatever pops up when she goes to dell.com, we went to newegg, got her an Asus Eee Box and a HP 17" LCD monitor.
I set it up in my house, installed Ubuntu 9.04 and OpenOffice.org, Evolution to read her comcast.net e-mail via POP, Firefox set to default to comcast.net, a one-line bug fix to keep X from blacking out, and delivered the final product to her house--she lives 2.4 miles from us.Several months later, and it's still working perfectly.
Heck, she can even understand and install the software updates, which is a matter of pushing the big green checkmark button and typing in her password.
That's even easier than it is in XP.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30088822</id>
	<title>Make your own explanatory video</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258137600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Hello, family.  My job as household IT tech support has been outsourced to (India/China/Elbonia/whatever).  The new family helpdesk is available through the main Google webpage.  Simply type in your problem, and 375,000+ experts will instantly reply with their best guess as to how to fix your issue.  Select the summary that seems to fit best, and give it a try."</p><p>"In the interim, the new outsourced IT support has sandboxed your computer on the household LAN due to excessive malware infections, and severely rate limited its ability to talk on the network, to reduce the spread of its infection.  Please follow up with them through the aforementioned Google question submission webpage for self-help in resolving these infections first, then they will likely lift these restrictions once the computer gets cleaned up."</p><p>"Welcome to the 21st century!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Hello , family .
My job as household IT tech support has been outsourced to ( India/China/Elbonia/whatever ) .
The new family helpdesk is available through the main Google webpage .
Simply type in your problem , and 375,000 + experts will instantly reply with their best guess as to how to fix your issue .
Select the summary that seems to fit best , and give it a try .
" " In the interim , the new outsourced IT support has sandboxed your computer on the household LAN due to excessive malware infections , and severely rate limited its ability to talk on the network , to reduce the spread of its infection .
Please follow up with them through the aforementioned Google question submission webpage for self-help in resolving these infections first , then they will likely lift these restrictions once the computer gets cleaned up .
" " Welcome to the 21st century !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Hello, family.
My job as household IT tech support has been outsourced to (India/China/Elbonia/whatever).
The new family helpdesk is available through the main Google webpage.
Simply type in your problem, and 375,000+ experts will instantly reply with their best guess as to how to fix your issue.
Select the summary that seems to fit best, and give it a try.
""In the interim, the new outsourced IT support has sandboxed your computer on the household LAN due to excessive malware infections, and severely rate limited its ability to talk on the network, to reduce the spread of its infection.
Please follow up with them through the aforementioned Google question submission webpage for self-help in resolving these infections first, then they will likely lift these restrictions once the computer gets cleaned up.
""Welcome to the 21st century!
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077416</id>
	<title>Re:Lessons learned from too many years in that rol</title>
	<author>schnablebg</author>
	<datestamp>1258057920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Insist that they use firefox with noscript - show them how this makes browsing the web fun again without all the clutter.</p></div><p>You gave yourself away with this one.  Breaking functionality on all major website is not fun!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Insist that they use firefox with noscript - show them how this makes browsing the web fun again without all the clutter.You gave yourself away with this one .
Breaking functionality on all major website is not fun !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Insist that they use firefox with noscript - show them how this makes browsing the web fun again without all the clutter.You gave yourself away with this one.
Breaking functionality on all major website is not fun!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075202</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078440</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>frogzilla</author>
	<datestamp>1258018620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have cheap PCs running Ubuntu in remote locations for a project I am involved in.  I have done "dist-upgrade"s and rebooted them remotely and it has worked just fine.  However, I have seen some PCs that won't actually restart when a reboot command is given.  They go through the shutdown and then just freeze.  Someone has to cycle the power.  I am assuming that something in the BIOS is set incorrectly or broken.  It sounds like in your case someone would be able to press the power button if the machine didn't come back up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have cheap PCs running Ubuntu in remote locations for a project I am involved in .
I have done " dist-upgrade " s and rebooted them remotely and it has worked just fine .
However , I have seen some PCs that wo n't actually restart when a reboot command is given .
They go through the shutdown and then just freeze .
Someone has to cycle the power .
I am assuming that something in the BIOS is set incorrectly or broken .
It sounds like in your case someone would be able to press the power button if the machine did n't come back up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have cheap PCs running Ubuntu in remote locations for a project I am involved in.
I have done "dist-upgrade"s and rebooted them remotely and it has worked just fine.
However, I have seen some PCs that won't actually restart when a reboot command is given.
They go through the shutdown and then just freeze.
Someone has to cycle the power.
I am assuming that something in the BIOS is set incorrectly or broken.
It sounds like in your case someone would be able to press the power button if the machine didn't come back up.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30084564</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>dr\_blurb</author>
	<datestamp>1258106040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>
That's what I did. I first had my parents
on Fedora, switched them to a Mac Mini about
a year ago.

Whenever there are issues (always related to
how to use a program, not malware) I use remote
desktop to help them out.

Works like a charm.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's what I did .
I first had my parents on Fedora , switched them to a Mac Mini about a year ago .
Whenever there are issues ( always related to how to use a program , not malware ) I use remote desktop to help them out .
Works like a charm .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
That's what I did.
I first had my parents
on Fedora, switched them to a Mac Mini about
a year ago.
Whenever there are issues (always related to
how to use a program, not malware) I use remote
desktop to help them out.
Works like a charm.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076704</id>
	<title>Re:Correct User Access</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258055580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I did this a few years ago (setup a normal user account and tell them to ONLY use admin for installing things that they need, which almost never happens)...and the ONLY problems I've EVER come across since then are when the cable company (Cox) goes down.  Unfortunately then, I can't do anything about it remotely.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I did this a few years ago ( setup a normal user account and tell them to ONLY use admin for installing things that they need , which almost never happens ) ...and the ONLY problems I 've EVER come across since then are when the cable company ( Cox ) goes down .
Unfortunately then , I ca n't do anything about it remotely .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I did this a few years ago (setup a normal user account and tell them to ONLY use admin for installing things that they need, which almost never happens)...and the ONLY problems I've EVER come across since then are when the cable company (Cox) goes down.
Unfortunately then, I can't do anything about it remotely.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077112</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>JimProuty</author>
	<datestamp>1258056960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>+1 on that, good buddy!

@celest (100606):

I'd encourage you to pull the plug on their "not important" technical support and tell them to get it elsewhere.

Nobody deserves that level of grief, especially from family.</htmltext>
<tokenext>+ 1 on that , good buddy !
@ celest ( 100606 ) : I 'd encourage you to pull the plug on their " not important " technical support and tell them to get it elsewhere .
Nobody deserves that level of grief , especially from family .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>+1 on that, good buddy!
@celest (100606):

I'd encourage you to pull the plug on their "not important" technical support and tell them to get it elsewhere.
Nobody deserves that level of grief, especially from family.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075568</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075384</id>
	<title>Re:The butterfly Parable</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258051380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There once was a man who was given a small box by a woman. The was entirely closed except for a hand-sized hole at one end which was covered with a black cloth so no one could see inside.<br>"Put your hand inside," said the woman.<br>The man put his hand inside and immediately felt a sharp pain. He removed his hand.<br>"Put it inside again," said the woman.<br>"It will hurt," said the man.<br>"That must have been a fluke.  Trust me."<br>The man did as he was told and was met by a sharp pain. He again removed his hand.<br>"Put it inside again," said the woman.<br>"No," said the man. "The last two times it has hurt my had. You lied. I will not do it."<br>The woman took her box and walked off.</p><p>Perhaps, oh Marin Spammer, the one who needs to learn the lesson is NOT the one with the problem. Give a user a PC and you will fix the PC for life. Beat the user to death with a PC and you will never be bothered again.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There once was a man who was given a small box by a woman .
The was entirely closed except for a hand-sized hole at one end which was covered with a black cloth so no one could see inside .
" Put your hand inside , " said the woman.The man put his hand inside and immediately felt a sharp pain .
He removed his hand .
" Put it inside again , " said the woman .
" It will hurt , " said the man .
" That must have been a fluke .
Trust me .
" The man did as he was told and was met by a sharp pain .
He again removed his hand .
" Put it inside again , " said the woman .
" No , " said the man .
" The last two times it has hurt my had .
You lied .
I will not do it .
" The woman took her box and walked off.Perhaps , oh Marin Spammer , the one who needs to learn the lesson is NOT the one with the problem .
Give a user a PC and you will fix the PC for life .
Beat the user to death with a PC and you will never be bothered again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There once was a man who was given a small box by a woman.
The was entirely closed except for a hand-sized hole at one end which was covered with a black cloth so no one could see inside.
"Put your hand inside," said the woman.The man put his hand inside and immediately felt a sharp pain.
He removed his hand.
"Put it inside again," said the woman.
"It will hurt," said the man.
"That must have been a fluke.
Trust me.
"The man did as he was told and was met by a sharp pain.
He again removed his hand.
"Put it inside again," said the woman.
"No," said the man.
"The last two times it has hurt my had.
You lied.
I will not do it.
"The woman took her box and walked off.Perhaps, oh Marin Spammer, the one who needs to learn the lesson is NOT the one with the problem.
Give a user a PC and you will fix the PC for life.
Beat the user to death with a PC and you will never be bothered again.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077138</id>
	<title>Re:Give Up</title>
	<author>lenester</author>
	<datestamp>1258057080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Do you know what kind of descriptions you get when you ask someone non-technical to tell you what's on the screen?</p></div></blockquote><p>
Heh, I sure do... and deciphering them quickly and accurately is probably my most valuable skill from an employability perspective. But I'm actually getting paid for it, so yeah.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you know what kind of descriptions you get when you ask someone non-technical to tell you what 's on the screen ?
Heh , I sure do... and deciphering them quickly and accurately is probably my most valuable skill from an employability perspective .
But I 'm actually getting paid for it , so yeah .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you know what kind of descriptions you get when you ask someone non-technical to tell you what's on the screen?
Heh, I sure do... and deciphering them quickly and accurately is probably my most valuable skill from an employability perspective.
But I'm actually getting paid for it, so yeah.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075562</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077234</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>osssmkatz</author>
	<datestamp>1258057380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Deepfreeze. <a href="http://www.faronics.com/html/product.asp" title="faronics.com">http://www.faronics.com/html/product.asp</a> [faronics.com] -- Deepfreeze pulls a disk image from another computer every boot. If it gets infected, just reboot. They would have to a) not install any software or software updates until you got there, and b) have a data partition for any locally stored files, although with Flyword -- that isn't necessary. Flyword will even put an icon on their desktop, and store stuff online. It's a Java app.</p><p><a href="http://www.flyword.com/" title="flyword.com">http://www.flyword.com/</a> [flyword.com] (it's been around since before Google docs.)</p><p>You may also want to look at Zonelabs' Forcefield. It essentially sandboxes the browser, and wipes off any downloads and returns the browser to a pristine state. <a href="http://www.zonelabs.com/" title="zonelabs.com">http://www.zonelabs.com/</a> [zonelabs.com]</p><p>--Sam</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Deepfreeze .
http : //www.faronics.com/html/product.asp [ faronics.com ] -- Deepfreeze pulls a disk image from another computer every boot .
If it gets infected , just reboot .
They would have to a ) not install any software or software updates until you got there , and b ) have a data partition for any locally stored files , although with Flyword -- that is n't necessary .
Flyword will even put an icon on their desktop , and store stuff online .
It 's a Java app.http : //www.flyword.com/ [ flyword.com ] ( it 's been around since before Google docs .
) You may also want to look at Zonelabs ' Forcefield .
It essentially sandboxes the browser , and wipes off any downloads and returns the browser to a pristine state .
http : //www.zonelabs.com/ [ zonelabs.com ] --Sam</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Deepfreeze.
http://www.faronics.com/html/product.asp [faronics.com] -- Deepfreeze pulls a disk image from another computer every boot.
If it gets infected, just reboot.
They would have to a) not install any software or software updates until you got there, and b) have a data partition for any locally stored files, although with Flyword -- that isn't necessary.
Flyword will even put an icon on their desktop, and store stuff online.
It's a Java app.http://www.flyword.com/ [flyword.com] (it's been around since before Google docs.
)You may also want to look at Zonelabs' Forcefield.
It essentially sandboxes the browser, and wipes off any downloads and returns the browser to a pristine state.
http://www.zonelabs.com/ [zonelabs.com]--Sam</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074676</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078358</id>
	<title>Re:Tell them to stop using Windows</title>
	<author>AttillaTheNun</author>
	<datestamp>1258018260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I run Ubuntu exclusively at home now. <p>
I use this to claim ignorance of how to solve any Windows problems (especially on anything newer than WinXP, which I have less than a couple of hours' worth of practical experience). </p><p>
They don't ask me for help anymore. I offer Ubuntu as an alternative which I am familiar with and note the lack of such malware issues as a carrot if they choose.
I would do the same for OS X if I had any experience with it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I run Ubuntu exclusively at home now .
I use this to claim ignorance of how to solve any Windows problems ( especially on anything newer than WinXP , which I have less than a couple of hours ' worth of practical experience ) .
They do n't ask me for help anymore .
I offer Ubuntu as an alternative which I am familiar with and note the lack of such malware issues as a carrot if they choose .
I would do the same for OS X if I had any experience with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I run Ubuntu exclusively at home now.
I use this to claim ignorance of how to solve any Windows problems (especially on anything newer than WinXP, which I have less than a couple of hours' worth of practical experience).
They don't ask me for help anymore.
I offer Ubuntu as an alternative which I am familiar with and note the lack of such malware issues as a carrot if they choose.
I would do the same for OS X if I had any experience with it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074724</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074728</id>
	<title>An interesting resource</title>
	<author>RhapsodyGuru</author>
	<datestamp>1258049640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.howstuffworks.com/virus.htm" title="howstuffworks.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.howstuffworks.com/virus.htm</a> [howstuffworks.com]

That should give them an idea. It also includes a video about trojan horses.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.howstuffworks.com/virus.htm [ howstuffworks.com ] That should give them an idea .
It also includes a video about trojan horses .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.howstuffworks.com/virus.htm [howstuffworks.com]

That should give them an idea.
It also includes a video about trojan horses.
:)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078252</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>DesScorp</author>
	<datestamp>1258017900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I just have to comment on the irony of saying they shouldn't install linux because they won't be able to run Windows software and then suggesting they buy a Mac.  Which also don't run Windows software apps.</p></div><p>Except that the Mac has widespread commercial support, and you can still put Microsoft Office on it. Many commercial games have Mac ports, which isn't the case for Linux. Even ID software, long the champion of commercial Linux gaming, is no longer porting their latest games to Linux. Just about every printer you can buy has Mac support. All major websites support the Mac. Apple <i>rules</i> the music world on the Web.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I just have to comment on the irony of saying they should n't install linux because they wo n't be able to run Windows software and then suggesting they buy a Mac .
Which also do n't run Windows software apps.Except that the Mac has widespread commercial support , and you can still put Microsoft Office on it .
Many commercial games have Mac ports , which is n't the case for Linux .
Even ID software , long the champion of commercial Linux gaming , is no longer porting their latest games to Linux .
Just about every printer you can buy has Mac support .
All major websites support the Mac .
Apple rules the music world on the Web .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just have to comment on the irony of saying they shouldn't install linux because they won't be able to run Windows software and then suggesting they buy a Mac.
Which also don't run Windows software apps.Except that the Mac has widespread commercial support, and you can still put Microsoft Office on it.
Many commercial games have Mac ports, which isn't the case for Linux.
Even ID software, long the champion of commercial Linux gaming, is no longer porting their latest games to Linux.
Just about every printer you can buy has Mac support.
All major websites support the Mac.
Apple rules the music world on the Web.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075538</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076548</id>
	<title>Re:Correct User Access</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258054980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>you could give program files\mozilla firefox write access for his account</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>you could give program files \ mozilla firefox write access for his account</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you could give program files\mozilla firefox write access for his account</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075546</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076178</id>
	<title>Re:Tell them to stop using Windows</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258053840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nope, doesn't work.  I have had to put in a fair bit of time on Ubuntu tech support to get my wife's Ubuntu computer to work.  Just plain bugs.</p><p>Windows has viruses; Ubuntu has bugs.  Mac might be the best option, but they're pricey.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nope , does n't work .
I have had to put in a fair bit of time on Ubuntu tech support to get my wife 's Ubuntu computer to work .
Just plain bugs.Windows has viruses ; Ubuntu has bugs .
Mac might be the best option , but they 're pricey .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nope, doesn't work.
I have had to put in a fair bit of time on Ubuntu tech support to get my wife's Ubuntu computer to work.
Just plain bugs.Windows has viruses; Ubuntu has bugs.
Mac might be the best option, but they're pricey.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074724</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075860</id>
	<title>antivirus</title>
	<author>confused one</author>
	<datestamp>1258052880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>Please</i> install an antivirus package on that computer.  Then set it up for automatic updates of both Windows and the antivirus.  There are several good options for "free" or low cost packages that usually include some malware and spyware protection.  AVG, Avast, NOD32 are fair examples.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Please install an antivirus package on that computer .
Then set it up for automatic updates of both Windows and the antivirus .
There are several good options for " free " or low cost packages that usually include some malware and spyware protection .
AVG , Avast , NOD32 are fair examples .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Please install an antivirus package on that computer.
Then set it up for automatic updates of both Windows and the antivirus.
There are several good options for "free" or low cost packages that usually include some malware and spyware protection.
AVG, Avast, NOD32 are fair examples.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077196</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258057320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or make them use a Linux live CD. ROFL</p><p>More seriously, make them use gmail, it has an integrated anti-spam and anti-virus, teach them to view attachments inside gmail instead of downloading them. If gmail says it can't open the attachment, tell them not to try viewing it any other way.</p><p>Remove administrator right from your users, it will limit the impact of viruses.</p><p>install updates fully automatically.</p><p>I manage 5 windows systems in the hand of non tech users, and have had only 2 viruses in the last 6 years.</p><p>As or my system, it runs Linux, and I'm starting to think I should switch users to Linux.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or make them use a Linux live CD .
ROFLMore seriously , make them use gmail , it has an integrated anti-spam and anti-virus , teach them to view attachments inside gmail instead of downloading them .
If gmail says it ca n't open the attachment , tell them not to try viewing it any other way.Remove administrator right from your users , it will limit the impact of viruses.install updates fully automatically.I manage 5 windows systems in the hand of non tech users , and have had only 2 viruses in the last 6 years.As or my system , it runs Linux , and I 'm starting to think I should switch users to Linux .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or make them use a Linux live CD.
ROFLMore seriously, make them use gmail, it has an integrated anti-spam and anti-virus, teach them to view attachments inside gmail instead of downloading them.
If gmail says it can't open the attachment, tell them not to try viewing it any other way.Remove administrator right from your users, it will limit the impact of viruses.install updates fully automatically.I manage 5 windows systems in the hand of non tech users, and have had only 2 viruses in the last 6 years.As or my system, it runs Linux, and I'm starting to think I should switch users to Linux.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074676</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076098</id>
	<title>I always suggest The Ultimate Tweaking Companion</title>
	<author>JoshDM</author>
	<datestamp>1258053540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.tweakguides.com/TGTC.html" title="tweakguides.com">Tweak Guides</a> [tweakguides.com] and their Ultimate Tweaking Companion is the first place I go when I need to optimize a computer or when someone who IS technically-minded asks me, the computer programmer in the family, for help. It is easily readable and free.  You can also donate $ and get a bunch of extras.  Additionally, the author makes guides for tweaking your PC for the best speed, overclocking, etc. and customizing for various games.  It's an excellent resource.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Tweak Guides [ tweakguides.com ] and their Ultimate Tweaking Companion is the first place I go when I need to optimize a computer or when someone who IS technically-minded asks me , the computer programmer in the family , for help .
It is easily readable and free .
You can also donate $ and get a bunch of extras .
Additionally , the author makes guides for tweaking your PC for the best speed , overclocking , etc .
and customizing for various games .
It 's an excellent resource .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tweak Guides [tweakguides.com] and their Ultimate Tweaking Companion is the first place I go when I need to optimize a computer or when someone who IS technically-minded asks me, the computer programmer in the family, for help.
It is easily readable and free.
You can also donate $ and get a bunch of extras.
Additionally, the author makes guides for tweaking your PC for the best speed, overclocking, etc.
and customizing for various games.
It's an excellent resource.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30087340</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>xkcdFan1011011101111</author>
	<datestamp>1258130520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Works well for me.

</p><p>Out of the box, Mac comes with an OS optimized for the hardware and loads of productivity software already installed (iWork etc).  While Macs cost more, they usually have decent hardware inside and provide a decent user experience (especially for casual users) with a minimum of admin effort.</p><p>The worst part about helping my parents out over the years is trying to explain that their new cheap windoze machine isn't as great as they thought because it comes with almost no software (like Office), doesn't have enough RAM to run quickly, has a slow/small hard drive, blah blah blah.  They think they get a deal at the big box store, but they don't realize how annoying the lower end computer models will be for them in the long run.</p><p>Even better is that Macs are basically BSD underneath the shiny interface, so I can admin my wife's laptop using (almost) all the linux tricks I know and love by simply opening a terminal.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Works well for me .
Out of the box , Mac comes with an OS optimized for the hardware and loads of productivity software already installed ( iWork etc ) .
While Macs cost more , they usually have decent hardware inside and provide a decent user experience ( especially for casual users ) with a minimum of admin effort.The worst part about helping my parents out over the years is trying to explain that their new cheap windoze machine is n't as great as they thought because it comes with almost no software ( like Office ) , does n't have enough RAM to run quickly , has a slow/small hard drive , blah blah blah .
They think they get a deal at the big box store , but they do n't realize how annoying the lower end computer models will be for them in the long run.Even better is that Macs are basically BSD underneath the shiny interface , so I can admin my wife 's laptop using ( almost ) all the linux tricks I know and love by simply opening a terminal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Works well for me.
Out of the box, Mac comes with an OS optimized for the hardware and loads of productivity software already installed (iWork etc).
While Macs cost more, they usually have decent hardware inside and provide a decent user experience (especially for casual users) with a minimum of admin effort.The worst part about helping my parents out over the years is trying to explain that their new cheap windoze machine isn't as great as they thought because it comes with almost no software (like Office), doesn't have enough RAM to run quickly, has a slow/small hard drive, blah blah blah.
They think they get a deal at the big box store, but they don't realize how annoying the lower end computer models will be for them in the long run.Even better is that Macs are basically BSD underneath the shiny interface, so I can admin my wife's laptop using (almost) all the linux tricks I know and love by simply opening a terminal.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078340</id>
	<title>Re:You have the control, so use it!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258018200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Evidently you haven't seen the latest test results that showed IE was far safer than Firefox.</p><p>Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot that hating Microsoft is far easier than being informed or correct.</p><p>Please return to your comfortable, clueless hegemony.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Evidently you have n't seen the latest test results that showed IE was far safer than Firefox.Oh , I 'm sorry , I forgot that hating Microsoft is far easier than being informed or correct.Please return to your comfortable , clueless hegemony .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Evidently you haven't seen the latest test results that showed IE was far safer than Firefox.Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot that hating Microsoft is far easier than being informed or correct.Please return to your comfortable, clueless hegemony.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074830</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30117000</id>
	<title>Re:Get a Mac</title>
	<author>Snoggle</author>
	<datestamp>1258394280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have kept my parents and brother's family on macs for years. I live several states away and while I do get calls, they are higher level application usage questions rather than fix the plumbing types of problems. My wife moved over from a Dell to a Macbook a few years ago for similar reasons. I just loaded Firefox, Thunderbird and Office on her Mac and she was right at home. It really has worked well and with used hardware the cost for my sanity has been relatively cheap. The macs are like toasters and telephones; in general they just work.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have kept my parents and brother 's family on macs for years .
I live several states away and while I do get calls , they are higher level application usage questions rather than fix the plumbing types of problems .
My wife moved over from a Dell to a Macbook a few years ago for similar reasons .
I just loaded Firefox , Thunderbird and Office on her Mac and she was right at home .
It really has worked well and with used hardware the cost for my sanity has been relatively cheap .
The macs are like toasters and telephones ; in general they just work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have kept my parents and brother's family on macs for years.
I live several states away and while I do get calls, they are higher level application usage questions rather than fix the plumbing types of problems.
My wife moved over from a Dell to a Macbook a few years ago for similar reasons.
I just loaded Firefox, Thunderbird and Office on her Mac and she was right at home.
It really has worked well and with used hardware the cost for my sanity has been relatively cheap.
The macs are like toasters and telephones; in general they just work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076310</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074958</id>
	<title>how about</title>
	<author>xate</author>
	<datestamp>1258050240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>not clicking on Ads
<br> <br>
Use an obscure browser for extra points</htmltext>
<tokenext>not clicking on Ads Use an obscure browser for extra points</tokentext>
<sentencetext>not clicking on Ads
 
Use an obscure browser for extra points</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074926</id>
	<title>Lock it down</title>
	<author>IP\_Troll</author>
	<datestamp>1258050180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Create a limited access user profile for non-tech savvy family members.  Lock it down as much as possible.  Or use the guest account feature that clears the profile when the user logs out.<br> <br>Using an operating system other than windows is a good idea also, but unrealistic that it will result in a better situation for the tech support family member.  Your virus issues will be replaced with compatibility complaints. If the family doesn't want to learn how to avoid viruses they don't want to learn a new operating system.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Create a limited access user profile for non-tech savvy family members .
Lock it down as much as possible .
Or use the guest account feature that clears the profile when the user logs out .
Using an operating system other than windows is a good idea also , but unrealistic that it will result in a better situation for the tech support family member .
Your virus issues will be replaced with compatibility complaints .
If the family does n't want to learn how to avoid viruses they do n't want to learn a new operating system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Create a limited access user profile for non-tech savvy family members.
Lock it down as much as possible.
Or use the guest account feature that clears the profile when the user logs out.
Using an operating system other than windows is a good idea also, but unrealistic that it will result in a better situation for the tech support family member.
Your virus issues will be replaced with compatibility complaints.
If the family doesn't want to learn how to avoid viruses they don't want to learn a new operating system.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074674</id>
	<title>Give Up</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258049520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>People use something they don't understand...Or just don't want to know how to...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People use something they do n't understand...Or just do n't want to know how to.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People use something they don't understand...Or just don't want to know how to...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30093584</id>
	<title>Here's what I did.</title>
	<author>NerveGas</author>
	<datestamp>1258118160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to be swamped with requests for free tech support from my immediate and extended family.  4 nights out of the week, I would spend working on others' computers - nearly always at their house.</p><p>Finally, I told everyone that I would continue to provide tech support, but it would be the first and third Tuesday of each month, from 5 to 10, at *MY* house.</p><p>Evidently, all of their problems which were massively urgent before stopped happening... since it would require them to go to the length of driving their computer to my house, I have only had TWO INSTANCES of doing tech support since then.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to be swamped with requests for free tech support from my immediate and extended family .
4 nights out of the week , I would spend working on others ' computers - nearly always at their house.Finally , I told everyone that I would continue to provide tech support , but it would be the first and third Tuesday of each month , from 5 to 10 , at * MY * house.Evidently , all of their problems which were massively urgent before stopped happening... since it would require them to go to the length of driving their computer to my house , I have only had TWO INSTANCES of doing tech support since then .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to be swamped with requests for free tech support from my immediate and extended family.
4 nights out of the week, I would spend working on others' computers - nearly always at their house.Finally, I told everyone that I would continue to provide tech support, but it would be the first and third Tuesday of each month, from 5 to 10, at *MY* house.Evidently, all of their problems which were massively urgent before stopped happening... since it would require them to go to the length of driving their computer to my house, I have only had TWO INSTANCES of doing tech support since then.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075894</id>
	<title>Make it a touch harder to be Administrator</title>
	<author>TheGreatOrangePeel</author>
	<datestamp>1258053000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>When people come to me with that kind of problem enough times, I simply revoke their administrative privileges on the computer. However, I still give them the password to the Administrator user. This lets them install apps without having to harass me to do it and keeps nasty stuff from doing too much when the user does something stupid.</htmltext>
<tokenext>When people come to me with that kind of problem enough times , I simply revoke their administrative privileges on the computer .
However , I still give them the password to the Administrator user .
This lets them install apps without having to harass me to do it and keeps nasty stuff from doing too much when the user does something stupid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When people come to me with that kind of problem enough times, I simply revoke their administrative privileges on the computer.
However, I still give them the password to the Administrator user.
This lets them install apps without having to harass me to do it and keeps nasty stuff from doing too much when the user does something stupid.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076698</id>
	<title>Re:Related question</title>
	<author>StanramonFlash</author>
	<datestamp>1258055580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It is true, I stopped servicing my Dad's computer, put him on a user account on windows told him to use it and didn't do anything.  Well, he figured it out, that windows sucks and is inheritantly broken if one as a policy doesn't buy anything for it....even the stuff we had bought was at this point broken...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.... and he didn't figure it out he just plays solitaire and checks email...  dunno, hope this Ubuntu 64-bit computer ups his ante and teaches him google-fu, probably not, but you know at least I'll have the TOOLS to actually do something for&amp;with the system, on the system, and by the system,</htmltext>
<tokenext>It is true , I stopped servicing my Dad 's computer , put him on a user account on windows told him to use it and did n't do anything .
Well , he figured it out , that windows sucks and is inheritantly broken if one as a policy does n't buy anything for it....even the stuff we had bought was at this point broken... /.... and he did n't figure it out he just plays solitaire and checks email... dunno , hope this Ubuntu 64-bit computer ups his ante and teaches him google-fu , probably not , but you know at least I 'll have the TOOLS to actually do something for&amp;with the system , on the system , and by the system,</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is true, I stopped servicing my Dad's computer, put him on a user account on windows told him to use it and didn't do anything.
Well, he figured it out, that windows sucks and is inheritantly broken if one as a policy doesn't buy anything for it....even the stuff we had bought was at this point broken... /.... and he didn't figure it out he just plays solitaire and checks email...  dunno, hope this Ubuntu 64-bit computer ups his ante and teaches him google-fu, probably not, but you know at least I'll have the TOOLS to actually do something for&amp;with the system, on the system, and by the system,</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074704</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076030</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258053420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>haha</p><p>Get a mac and never look back.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>hahaGet a mac and never look back .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>hahaGet a mac and never look back.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077276</id>
	<title>Am I the only one?</title>
	<author>lostfayth</author>
	<datestamp>1258057560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Am I the only one whose family does \_not\_ have these issues?  Until reading the replies to this post I would have called my family computer illiterate - but I've never had this much trouble.  Sure, I've gotten questions regarding things they do not understand and I've had to take support calls, but I've never had these huge malware infections popping up every couple of weeks.</p><p>In the past two years, the only problems I can really remember facing:<br>Wiring the new addition for ethernet (I'm less expensive than the electrician)<br>Installing Windows XP on a computer that came with Vista (My father preferred XP - suprise<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)<br>Cleaning one malware infection, a fake anti-virus notice that my mother did not understand - cleaned it out, she asked what happened and I explained it.  I've seen those notices on her screen since, and she has closed them. She now knows the difference between the fake notices and the real notices from AVG.<br>Answering questions about what I suggest to use for a specific task - such as my mother trying to sync her blackberry with a calendar at home, as her office PC does not support it. (And the IT department will not let her install anything, despite that they bought her the phone)</p><p>I guess I'm just lucky.  I should really go thank my family after reading all of this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Am I the only one whose family does \ _not \ _ have these issues ?
Until reading the replies to this post I would have called my family computer illiterate - but I 've never had this much trouble .
Sure , I 've gotten questions regarding things they do not understand and I 've had to take support calls , but I 've never had these huge malware infections popping up every couple of weeks.In the past two years , the only problems I can really remember facing : Wiring the new addition for ethernet ( I 'm less expensive than the electrician ) Installing Windows XP on a computer that came with Vista ( My father preferred XP - suprise : ) Cleaning one malware infection , a fake anti-virus notice that my mother did not understand - cleaned it out , she asked what happened and I explained it .
I 've seen those notices on her screen since , and she has closed them .
She now knows the difference between the fake notices and the real notices from AVG.Answering questions about what I suggest to use for a specific task - such as my mother trying to sync her blackberry with a calendar at home , as her office PC does not support it .
( And the IT department will not let her install anything , despite that they bought her the phone ) I guess I 'm just lucky .
I should really go thank my family after reading all of this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Am I the only one whose family does \_not\_ have these issues?
Until reading the replies to this post I would have called my family computer illiterate - but I've never had this much trouble.
Sure, I've gotten questions regarding things they do not understand and I've had to take support calls, but I've never had these huge malware infections popping up every couple of weeks.In the past two years, the only problems I can really remember facing:Wiring the new addition for ethernet (I'm less expensive than the electrician)Installing Windows XP on a computer that came with Vista (My father preferred XP - suprise :)Cleaning one malware infection, a fake anti-virus notice that my mother did not understand - cleaned it out, she asked what happened and I explained it.
I've seen those notices on her screen since, and she has closed them.
She now knows the difference between the fake notices and the real notices from AVG.Answering questions about what I suggest to use for a specific task - such as my mother trying to sync her blackberry with a calendar at home, as her office PC does not support it.
(And the IT department will not let her install anything, despite that they bought her the phone)I guess I'm just lucky.
I should really go thank my family after reading all of this.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30081794</id>
	<title>Give them options</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258032360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Give them options. They can</p><p>a) pay for tech support at a reasonable going rate; either you or someone else, but money needs to exchange hands. Lock down all browsers to not allow javascript or 3rd party cookies or ads or any adobe crap.</p><p>b) buy a Mac which will probably mean zero tech support for you.</p><p>c) learn to use Linux.</p><p>d) go on the way they are, but leave them with a Linux boot CD for emergencies. Then just forget to fix the computer for a few months and they will get used to Linux.</p><p>I provide tech support to my parents computer twice a year. I locked down IE and Firefox and removed Outlook. No viruses since I did this about 10 yrs ago (Netscape back then). Mom uses Quicken and an expensive stock market program, so only MS-Windows-something is an option. WINE doesn't work and running a VM with WinXP is too complex.</p><p>When I visit, it takes about 3 hours to clear and refresh their install. They do patch and update their software all year, but I wipe tmp files, clear the prefetch, defrag and run a disk optimizer. I've scripted much of this and asked them to run it monthly, but they lose the icon on their desktop.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Give them options .
They cana ) pay for tech support at a reasonable going rate ; either you or someone else , but money needs to exchange hands .
Lock down all browsers to not allow javascript or 3rd party cookies or ads or any adobe crap.b ) buy a Mac which will probably mean zero tech support for you.c ) learn to use Linux.d ) go on the way they are , but leave them with a Linux boot CD for emergencies .
Then just forget to fix the computer for a few months and they will get used to Linux.I provide tech support to my parents computer twice a year .
I locked down IE and Firefox and removed Outlook .
No viruses since I did this about 10 yrs ago ( Netscape back then ) .
Mom uses Quicken and an expensive stock market program , so only MS-Windows-something is an option .
WINE does n't work and running a VM with WinXP is too complex.When I visit , it takes about 3 hours to clear and refresh their install .
They do patch and update their software all year , but I wipe tmp files , clear the prefetch , defrag and run a disk optimizer .
I 've scripted much of this and asked them to run it monthly , but they lose the icon on their desktop .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Give them options.
They cana) pay for tech support at a reasonable going rate; either you or someone else, but money needs to exchange hands.
Lock down all browsers to not allow javascript or 3rd party cookies or ads or any adobe crap.b) buy a Mac which will probably mean zero tech support for you.c) learn to use Linux.d) go on the way they are, but leave them with a Linux boot CD for emergencies.
Then just forget to fix the computer for a few months and they will get used to Linux.I provide tech support to my parents computer twice a year.
I locked down IE and Firefox and removed Outlook.
No viruses since I did this about 10 yrs ago (Netscape back then).
Mom uses Quicken and an expensive stock market program, so only MS-Windows-something is an option.
WINE doesn't work and running a VM with WinXP is too complex.When I visit, it takes about 3 hours to clear and refresh their install.
They do patch and update their software all year, but I wipe tmp files, clear the prefetch, defrag and run a disk optimizer.
I've scripted much of this and asked them to run it monthly, but they lose the icon on their desktop.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074744</id>
	<title>Win</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258049700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1. Reformat Computers<br>2. Setup Restricted Accounts<br>3. Win</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
Reformat Computers2 .
Setup Restricted Accounts3 .
Win</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.
Reformat Computers2.
Setup Restricted Accounts3.
Win</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074886</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>DesScorp</author>
	<datestamp>1258050120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>problem solved..  at least until linux malware becomes prevalent</p></div><p>That's really impractical, though, unless the person you're installing it for only wants email and to occasionally surf some websites. We live in a commercial OS world. You think you get lots of calls for computer help from family now? Wipe their drive and install Linux. After they figure out that they can't install games or Microsoft Office, they'll be asking you to put Windows right back on.</p><p>Myself, I've come to the point where I simply recommend to family that they buy an Apple, on the security grounds alone. I've pointed a couple of family members to Macbooks, and I get zero calls for help from them after a breaking in period.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>problem solved.. at least until linux malware becomes prevalentThat 's really impractical , though , unless the person you 're installing it for only wants email and to occasionally surf some websites .
We live in a commercial OS world .
You think you get lots of calls for computer help from family now ?
Wipe their drive and install Linux .
After they figure out that they ca n't install games or Microsoft Office , they 'll be asking you to put Windows right back on.Myself , I 've come to the point where I simply recommend to family that they buy an Apple , on the security grounds alone .
I 've pointed a couple of family members to Macbooks , and I get zero calls for help from them after a breaking in period .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>problem solved..  at least until linux malware becomes prevalentThat's really impractical, though, unless the person you're installing it for only wants email and to occasionally surf some websites.
We live in a commercial OS world.
You think you get lots of calls for computer help from family now?
Wipe their drive and install Linux.
After they figure out that they can't install games or Microsoft Office, they'll be asking you to put Windows right back on.Myself, I've come to the point where I simply recommend to family that they buy an Apple, on the security grounds alone.
I've pointed a couple of family members to Macbooks, and I get zero calls for help from them after a breaking in period.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074684</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30085624</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>hany</author>
	<datestamp>1258120920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>... because they can't figure out how to point and click.</p></div></blockquote><p>Neither should you - as Linux user, you should be using CLI, no?</p><p>Of course I'm joking, but they do not know that.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>... because they ca n't figure out how to point and click.Neither should you - as Linux user , you should be using CLI , no ? Of course I 'm joking , but they do not know that .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... because they can't figure out how to point and click.Neither should you - as Linux user, you should be using CLI, no?Of course I'm joking, but they do not know that.
:)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076946</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074810</id>
	<title>Only every 8 months?  Lucky.</title>
	<author>GreatDrok</author>
	<datestamp>1258049940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have systematically made all my family members get Macs over the years and this has reduced requirements for my support services to near to nothing.  I have tried a few on Linux and that helped but they tended to be the most technically literate.  Others who insisted that Windows was all they could use got XP with non-administrator accounts and I would remote desktop in as needed.  That worked pretty well but not as well as a Mac and that person (my wife's 92 year old grandmother) is about to get a Mac mini.</p><p>I can't understand why you have people who only want to do basic tasks with anything other than an non-admin account?  Even on a Mac I reserve the admin rights for myself.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have systematically made all my family members get Macs over the years and this has reduced requirements for my support services to near to nothing .
I have tried a few on Linux and that helped but they tended to be the most technically literate .
Others who insisted that Windows was all they could use got XP with non-administrator accounts and I would remote desktop in as needed .
That worked pretty well but not as well as a Mac and that person ( my wife 's 92 year old grandmother ) is about to get a Mac mini.I ca n't understand why you have people who only want to do basic tasks with anything other than an non-admin account ?
Even on a Mac I reserve the admin rights for myself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have systematically made all my family members get Macs over the years and this has reduced requirements for my support services to near to nothing.
I have tried a few on Linux and that helped but they tended to be the most technically literate.
Others who insisted that Windows was all they could use got XP with non-administrator accounts and I would remote desktop in as needed.
That worked pretty well but not as well as a Mac and that person (my wife's 92 year old grandmother) is about to get a Mac mini.I can't understand why you have people who only want to do basic tasks with anything other than an non-admin account?
Even on a Mac I reserve the admin rights for myself.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076630</id>
	<title>Returnil</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258055280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've had similar issues with friends of ours where their daughter would be on AIM and download / click links / what have you on the internet.  I got tired of helping them out that I went ahead and installed my spare license of VMWare and created a persistant machine with AIM etc for their daughter and taught her how to use it.  Never heard of an issue again.</p><p>I also instead of VMWare or VirtualPC started to use http://www.returnilvirtualsystem.com/ it is free for home use and loads what is needed into memory and once you reboot the machine is then back to where it was before this program was started.  This has helped a bunch with creating a nice shortcut it launch this then IE for my parents and just remind them to reboot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've had similar issues with friends of ours where their daughter would be on AIM and download / click links / what have you on the internet .
I got tired of helping them out that I went ahead and installed my spare license of VMWare and created a persistant machine with AIM etc for their daughter and taught her how to use it .
Never heard of an issue again.I also instead of VMWare or VirtualPC started to use http : //www.returnilvirtualsystem.com/ it is free for home use and loads what is needed into memory and once you reboot the machine is then back to where it was before this program was started .
This has helped a bunch with creating a nice shortcut it launch this then IE for my parents and just remind them to reboot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've had similar issues with friends of ours where their daughter would be on AIM and download / click links / what have you on the internet.
I got tired of helping them out that I went ahead and installed my spare license of VMWare and created a persistant machine with AIM etc for their daughter and taught her how to use it.
Never heard of an issue again.I also instead of VMWare or VirtualPC started to use http://www.returnilvirtualsystem.com/ it is free for home use and loads what is needed into memory and once you reboot the machine is then back to where it was before this program was started.
This has helped a bunch with creating a nice shortcut it launch this then IE for my parents and just remind them to reboot.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076204</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>Scared Rabbit</author>
	<datestamp>1258053960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually installing office works just fine in Linux (Office 2007 at least).  Though MS Access doesn't seem to work currently, how many home users really use that anyway?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually installing office works just fine in Linux ( Office 2007 at least ) .
Though MS Access does n't seem to work currently , how many home users really use that anyway ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually installing office works just fine in Linux (Office 2007 at least).
Though MS Access doesn't seem to work currently, how many home users really use that anyway?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074886</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077058</id>
	<title>Dont just buy a mac</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258056780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am so sick of this argument; mac this and mac that, your likeliness of infection happens to be low because their market share is low.  I had family members using MAC thinking they were so safe and didn't bother to heed any of the "normal" safety practices.  They just clicked at will.  One day their system got infected, a particularily agressive infection the resulted in the system being inoperable.  Often, consumer level MACs, don't include any system restore software (such was the case).  They took it to an Apple certified repair shop; who then charged them nearly $500 to repair it.</p><p>Basically, you may feel safer with a MAC, but when you do run into problems its usually catastrophic.  There are bad people out there, no matter what you do you will run into them; they will do damage... I know it sucks but that's the way it is.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am so sick of this argument ; mac this and mac that , your likeliness of infection happens to be low because their market share is low .
I had family members using MAC thinking they were so safe and did n't bother to heed any of the " normal " safety practices .
They just clicked at will .
One day their system got infected , a particularily agressive infection the resulted in the system being inoperable .
Often , consumer level MACs , do n't include any system restore software ( such was the case ) .
They took it to an Apple certified repair shop ; who then charged them nearly $ 500 to repair it.Basically , you may feel safer with a MAC , but when you do run into problems its usually catastrophic .
There are bad people out there , no matter what you do you will run into them ; they will do damage... I know it sucks but that 's the way it is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am so sick of this argument; mac this and mac that, your likeliness of infection happens to be low because their market share is low.
I had family members using MAC thinking they were so safe and didn't bother to heed any of the "normal" safety practices.
They just clicked at will.
One day their system got infected, a particularily agressive infection the resulted in the system being inoperable.
Often, consumer level MACs, don't include any system restore software (such was the case).
They took it to an Apple certified repair shop; who then charged them nearly $500 to repair it.Basically, you may feel safer with a MAC, but when you do run into problems its usually catastrophic.
There are bad people out there, no matter what you do you will run into them; they will do damage... I know it sucks but that's the way it is.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30084488</id>
	<title>Buy a Mac.</title>
	<author>CountBrass</author>
	<datestamp>1258104420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is what I did. I bought a Mac. After a while I started claiming I wasn't up to speed with PC/Windows anymore so I probably couldn't help them. They then started buying Macs and I haven't needed to help them. The most I've had to do is recommend software or lend my sister-in-law my external DVD for use with her MacBook Air.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is what I did .
I bought a Mac .
After a while I started claiming I was n't up to speed with PC/Windows anymore so I probably could n't help them .
They then started buying Macs and I have n't needed to help them .
The most I 've had to do is recommend software or lend my sister-in-law my external DVD for use with her MacBook Air .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is what I did.
I bought a Mac.
After a while I started claiming I wasn't up to speed with PC/Windows anymore so I probably couldn't help them.
They then started buying Macs and I haven't needed to help them.
The most I've had to do is recommend software or lend my sister-in-law my external DVD for use with her MacBook Air.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075838</id>
	<title>Re:The butterfly Parable</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258052820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>actually they do, that's why staking trees for longer than necessary for the roots to establish is a bad idea. the flexing of the wood causes the tree to change the type of tissue grown</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>actually they do , that 's why staking trees for longer than necessary for the roots to establish is a bad idea .
the flexing of the wood causes the tree to change the type of tissue grown</tokentext>
<sentencetext>actually they do, that's why staking trees for longer than necessary for the roots to establish is a bad idea.
the flexing of the wood causes the tree to change the type of tissue grown</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074690</id>
	<title>Woo!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258049580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In b4 posts</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In b4 posts</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In b4 posts</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077836</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258059480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about DeepFreeze?</p><p>http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=deepfreeze&amp;ei=UTF-8&amp;fr=moz35</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about DeepFreeze ? http : //search.yahoo.com/search ? p = deepfreeze&amp;ei = UTF-8&amp;fr = moz35</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about DeepFreeze?http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=deepfreeze&amp;ei=UTF-8&amp;fr=moz35</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074676</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075862</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>commodore64\_love</author>
	<datestamp>1258052880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"You're the shithead that broke it.  You fix it, or you pay Best Buy to fix it, or you pay me to fix it.  Those are your choices."</p><p>As you can tell, after ten years of this, I'm fed up with trying to support my idiot family.<br>I'm tired of giving-up my weekends doing what amounts to my fulltime job - for free.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" You 're the shithead that broke it .
You fix it , or you pay Best Buy to fix it , or you pay me to fix it .
Those are your choices .
" As you can tell , after ten years of this , I 'm fed up with trying to support my idiot family.I 'm tired of giving-up my weekends doing what amounts to my fulltime job - for free .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"You're the shithead that broke it.
You fix it, or you pay Best Buy to fix it, or you pay me to fix it.
Those are your choices.
"As you can tell, after ten years of this, I'm fed up with trying to support my idiot family.I'm tired of giving-up my weekends doing what amounts to my fulltime job - for free.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074676</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075246</id>
	<title>Use Linux. Seriously. Just do it.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258051020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So this isn't what you're asking for, but it will probably be repeated throughout the comment section. Your users most likely won't get any better. Your real options are;</p><p>-Keep them on Windows: Implement regular backups (a good idea no matter which platform you're on), and institute some hardcore restrictions on their user accounts. You'll also want -insert anti-virus program of choice- and -insert anti-spyware program of choice- running, along with scheduling regular full scans within these programs. Try and preach safe computing practices, and come back in ~6 months when someone gets infected from facebook/stupid email forwards because they thought it was a message from their friend.</p><p>-Move them to Linux: This is only a good choice if they don't do too many complicated things with the computer. There are good open source alternatives for a lot of programs out there that they already use in Windows...so if they're watching dvds, listening to music, surfing websites, etc etc...they can do it just as well in Linux. If someone is trying to play WoW, you'll have to deal with running it in WINE, but that isn't a huge issue. The main thing you'll want to do is find out what they do and use on the computer, ensure there's an alternative on Linux (or that it can be ran directly via WINE), and then go ahead with it. As an example, my computer-phobic girlfriend actually enjoys using the latest release of Ubuntu, and has said things like, "It works the same as Windows, but it's all been moved around a bit."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So this is n't what you 're asking for , but it will probably be repeated throughout the comment section .
Your users most likely wo n't get any better .
Your real options are ; -Keep them on Windows : Implement regular backups ( a good idea no matter which platform you 're on ) , and institute some hardcore restrictions on their user accounts .
You 'll also want -insert anti-virus program of choice- and -insert anti-spyware program of choice- running , along with scheduling regular full scans within these programs .
Try and preach safe computing practices , and come back in ~ 6 months when someone gets infected from facebook/stupid email forwards because they thought it was a message from their friend.-Move them to Linux : This is only a good choice if they do n't do too many complicated things with the computer .
There are good open source alternatives for a lot of programs out there that they already use in Windows...so if they 're watching dvds , listening to music , surfing websites , etc etc...they can do it just as well in Linux .
If someone is trying to play WoW , you 'll have to deal with running it in WINE , but that is n't a huge issue .
The main thing you 'll want to do is find out what they do and use on the computer , ensure there 's an alternative on Linux ( or that it can be ran directly via WINE ) , and then go ahead with it .
As an example , my computer-phobic girlfriend actually enjoys using the latest release of Ubuntu , and has said things like , " It works the same as Windows , but it 's all been moved around a bit .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So this isn't what you're asking for, but it will probably be repeated throughout the comment section.
Your users most likely won't get any better.
Your real options are;-Keep them on Windows: Implement regular backups (a good idea no matter which platform you're on), and institute some hardcore restrictions on their user accounts.
You'll also want -insert anti-virus program of choice- and -insert anti-spyware program of choice- running, along with scheduling regular full scans within these programs.
Try and preach safe computing practices, and come back in ~6 months when someone gets infected from facebook/stupid email forwards because they thought it was a message from their friend.-Move them to Linux: This is only a good choice if they don't do too many complicated things with the computer.
There are good open source alternatives for a lot of programs out there that they already use in Windows...so if they're watching dvds, listening to music, surfing websites, etc etc...they can do it just as well in Linux.
If someone is trying to play WoW, you'll have to deal with running it in WINE, but that isn't a huge issue.
The main thing you'll want to do is find out what they do and use on the computer, ensure there's an alternative on Linux (or that it can be ran directly via WINE), and then go ahead with it.
As an example, my computer-phobic girlfriend actually enjoys using the latest release of Ubuntu, and has said things like, "It works the same as Windows, but it's all been moved around a bit.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30082418</id>
	<title>MS NATIVE TOOLS &amp; SECURITY HARDENING! apk</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258037040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Most of what you need for a STABLE &amp; SAFE Windows system? IT IS ALREADY IN THE SYSTEM! It's part "security hardening", &amp; part "behavioral modification" online...</p><p>(AND, it's doable, for around 1-2 hrs. of your time up front, &amp; via free tools the OS already has, or, that it's install media does (like Recovery Console, for example), or freebie tools like ProcessExplorer &amp; far more)</p><p><b>It is COMPLETELY DOABLE, &amp; for ANY user who is willing to "put in the time up-front", around 1-2 hrs. tops to secure his system PRIOR to going online, can enjoy years TO DECADES of stable, safe, secure uptime... yes, even on a Windows machine!</b> (E.G.-&gt; The last 3 system I have had, had run + stayed "solid/secure/safe" for the entire 5-7 yr. run each enjoyed (&amp; I only 'took them down' when I put new OS' onto completely new mobos &amp; such, replacing the former machines basically)).</p><p>SO... how's one supposed to do THAT?</p><p>Ok - read here:</p><p>----</p><p><b>HOW TO SECURE Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003, + even VISTA</b>(&amp; beyond)<b>, via CIS Tool Guidance</b> (&amp; more):</p><p><a href="http://www.tcmagazine.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2662" title="tcmagazine.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.tcmagazine.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2662</a> [tcmagazine.com]</p><p>----</p><p>It's currently @ around 250,000++ views worldwide across 20 or so forums, &amp; on 15/20 it was made either an:</p><p>1.) Essential Guide<br>2.) Made a "sticky/pinned thread"<br>3.) Rated 5/5 stars</p><p>BUT, most importantly, are the results folks who FOLLOWED IT TO THE LETTER ARE EXPERIENCING (as well as their customer, as in this gent's case next below as an example/proof thereof):</p><p>----</p><p><a href="http://www.xtremepccentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28430&amp;page=3" title="xtremepccentral.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.xtremepccentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28430&amp;page=3</a> [xtremepccentral.com]</p><p><b>People such as THRONKA @ XtremePCCentral.com here stated, verbatim by he:</b></p><p>"Its 2009 - still trouble free! I was told last week by a co worker who does active directory administration, and he said I was doing overkill. I told him yes, but I just eliminated the half life in windows that you usually get. He said good point. So from 2008 till 2009. No speed decreases, its been to a lan party, moved around in a move, and it still NEVER has had the OS reinstalled besides the fact I imaged the drive over in 2008. Great stuff!"</p><p>----</p><p>So, there you are - just a SINGLE EXAMPLE THEREOF, of many enjoying the same thing.</p><p>(Windows Security? ENTIRELY DOABLE... however, it demands a bit of your time, "up front"/first is all - albeit, for years to decades of stable safe uptime, into the distance)...</p><p>APK</p><p>P.S.=&gt; It works... apk</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Most of what you need for a STABLE &amp; SAFE Windows system ?
IT IS ALREADY IN THE SYSTEM !
It 's part " security hardening " , &amp; part " behavioral modification " online... ( AND , it 's doable , for around 1-2 hrs .
of your time up front , &amp; via free tools the OS already has , or , that it 's install media does ( like Recovery Console , for example ) , or freebie tools like ProcessExplorer &amp; far more ) It is COMPLETELY DOABLE , &amp; for ANY user who is willing to " put in the time up-front " , around 1-2 hrs .
tops to secure his system PRIOR to going online , can enjoy years TO DECADES of stable , safe , secure uptime... yes , even on a Windows machine !
( E.G.- &gt; The last 3 system I have had , had run + stayed " solid/secure/safe " for the entire 5-7 yr. run each enjoyed ( &amp; I only 'took them down ' when I put new OS ' onto completely new mobos &amp; such , replacing the former machines basically ) ) .SO... how 's one supposed to do THAT ? Ok - read here : ----HOW TO SECURE Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003 , + even VISTA ( &amp; beyond ) , via CIS Tool Guidance ( &amp; more ) : http : //www.tcmagazine.com/forums/index.php ? showtopic = 2662 [ tcmagazine.com ] ----It 's currently @ around 250,000 + + views worldwide across 20 or so forums , &amp; on 15/20 it was made either an : 1 .
) Essential Guide2 .
) Made a " sticky/pinned thread " 3 .
) Rated 5/5 starsBUT , most importantly , are the results folks who FOLLOWED IT TO THE LETTER ARE EXPERIENCING ( as well as their customer , as in this gent 's case next below as an example/proof thereof ) : ----http : //www.xtremepccentral.com/forums/showthread.php ? t = 28430&amp;page = 3 [ xtremepccentral.com ] People such as THRONKA @ XtremePCCentral.com here stated , verbatim by he : " Its 2009 - still trouble free !
I was told last week by a co worker who does active directory administration , and he said I was doing overkill .
I told him yes , but I just eliminated the half life in windows that you usually get .
He said good point .
So from 2008 till 2009 .
No speed decreases , its been to a lan party , moved around in a move , and it still NEVER has had the OS reinstalled besides the fact I imaged the drive over in 2008 .
Great stuff !
" ----So , there you are - just a SINGLE EXAMPLE THEREOF , of many enjoying the same thing .
( Windows Security ?
ENTIRELY DOABLE... however , it demands a bit of your time , " up front " /first is all - albeit , for years to decades of stable safe uptime , into the distance ) ...APKP.S. = &gt; It works... apk</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most of what you need for a STABLE &amp; SAFE Windows system?
IT IS ALREADY IN THE SYSTEM!
It's part "security hardening", &amp; part "behavioral modification" online...(AND, it's doable, for around 1-2 hrs.
of your time up front, &amp; via free tools the OS already has, or, that it's install media does (like Recovery Console, for example), or freebie tools like ProcessExplorer &amp; far more)It is COMPLETELY DOABLE, &amp; for ANY user who is willing to "put in the time up-front", around 1-2 hrs.
tops to secure his system PRIOR to going online, can enjoy years TO DECADES of stable, safe, secure uptime... yes, even on a Windows machine!
(E.G.-&gt; The last 3 system I have had, had run + stayed "solid/secure/safe" for the entire 5-7 yr. run each enjoyed (&amp; I only 'took them down' when I put new OS' onto completely new mobos &amp; such, replacing the former machines basically)).SO... how's one supposed to do THAT?Ok - read here:----HOW TO SECURE Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003, + even VISTA(&amp; beyond), via CIS Tool Guidance (&amp; more):http://www.tcmagazine.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2662 [tcmagazine.com]----It's currently @ around 250,000++ views worldwide across 20 or so forums, &amp; on 15/20 it was made either an:1.
) Essential Guide2.
) Made a "sticky/pinned thread"3.
) Rated 5/5 starsBUT, most importantly, are the results folks who FOLLOWED IT TO THE LETTER ARE EXPERIENCING (as well as their customer, as in this gent's case next below as an example/proof thereof):----http://www.xtremepccentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28430&amp;page=3 [xtremepccentral.com]People such as THRONKA @ XtremePCCentral.com here stated, verbatim by he:"Its 2009 - still trouble free!
I was told last week by a co worker who does active directory administration, and he said I was doing overkill.
I told him yes, but I just eliminated the half life in windows that you usually get.
He said good point.
So from 2008 till 2009.
No speed decreases, its been to a lan party, moved around in a move, and it still NEVER has had the OS reinstalled besides the fact I imaged the drive over in 2008.
Great stuff!
"----So, there you are - just a SINGLE EXAMPLE THEREOF, of many enjoying the same thing.
(Windows Security?
ENTIRELY DOABLE... however, it demands a bit of your time, "up front"/first is all - albeit, for years to decades of stable safe uptime, into the distance)...APKP.S.=&gt; It works... apk</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074676</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30089480</id>
	<title>TV Support</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258139940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Family tech support is tough - my sister and her family waited for more than 6 months for me to get back from an overseas trip so I could tune their TV. I gave them some pretty stern words about figuring sh*t out for themselves. Now they just ask someone else.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Family tech support is tough - my sister and her family waited for more than 6 months for me to get back from an overseas trip so I could tune their TV .
I gave them some pretty stern words about figuring sh * t out for themselves .
Now they just ask someone else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Family tech support is tough - my sister and her family waited for more than 6 months for me to get back from an overseas trip so I could tune their TV.
I gave them some pretty stern words about figuring sh*t out for themselves.
Now they just ask someone else.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078016</id>
	<title>Re:The last time I had this problem...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258016880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I gotta side with the old man on this one.  While I do think the law suit is much, it seems like you installed Ubuntu w/o his consultation.  In that case, you're definitely in the wrong.</p><p>Some people think differently then the way you think.  Especially with older people, they don't see the UI affordances.  If you watch them take notes on using Windows, it'll always start with "Click on the Start Button".  Ubuntu was something he wasn't use to, and therefore he couldn't do what he wanted.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I got ta side with the old man on this one .
While I do think the law suit is much , it seems like you installed Ubuntu w/o his consultation .
In that case , you 're definitely in the wrong.Some people think differently then the way you think .
Especially with older people , they do n't see the UI affordances .
If you watch them take notes on using Windows , it 'll always start with " Click on the Start Button " .
Ubuntu was something he was n't use to , and therefore he could n't do what he wanted .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I gotta side with the old man on this one.
While I do think the law suit is much, it seems like you installed Ubuntu w/o his consultation.
In that case, you're definitely in the wrong.Some people think differently then the way you think.
Especially with older people, they don't see the UI affordances.
If you watch them take notes on using Windows, it'll always start with "Click on the Start Button".
Ubuntu was something he wasn't use to, and therefore he couldn't do what he wanted.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074896</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075532</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>johnw</author>
	<datestamp>1258051800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>That's really impractical, though, unless the person you're installing it for only wants email and to occasionally surf some websites. We live in a commercial OS world. You think you get lots of calls for computer help from family now? Wipe their drive and install Linux. After they figure out that they can't install games or Microsoft Office, they'll be asking you to put Windows right back on.</p></div><p>That's the exact opposite of my experience.  I've converted quite a few non-paying support-seeking relatives to Linux-only systems, and after a short bedding-in period the support requests drop to pretty much nothing.  It helps a bit that I put all their systems on a VPN, so when they do have a problem I can connect to them and do remote diagnosis.</p><p>Your standard non-technical home user wants:</p><p>Web<br>E-mail<br>Office software<br>Music<br>Videos</p><p>and all that is there out of the box with a modern Linux installation.  Once they get past the idea that they need to buy a new bit of software for every new thing they want to do, they're happy as a guinea pig with one tail.</p><p>The only people I haven't been able to convert are those who want to use their PC as a games console.  I leave them to their own devices.</p><p>Incidentally - not one of my convertees has asked to revert.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's really impractical , though , unless the person you 're installing it for only wants email and to occasionally surf some websites .
We live in a commercial OS world .
You think you get lots of calls for computer help from family now ?
Wipe their drive and install Linux .
After they figure out that they ca n't install games or Microsoft Office , they 'll be asking you to put Windows right back on.That 's the exact opposite of my experience .
I 've converted quite a few non-paying support-seeking relatives to Linux-only systems , and after a short bedding-in period the support requests drop to pretty much nothing .
It helps a bit that I put all their systems on a VPN , so when they do have a problem I can connect to them and do remote diagnosis.Your standard non-technical home user wants : WebE-mailOffice softwareMusicVideosand all that is there out of the box with a modern Linux installation .
Once they get past the idea that they need to buy a new bit of software for every new thing they want to do , they 're happy as a guinea pig with one tail.The only people I have n't been able to convert are those who want to use their PC as a games console .
I leave them to their own devices.Incidentally - not one of my convertees has asked to revert .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's really impractical, though, unless the person you're installing it for only wants email and to occasionally surf some websites.
We live in a commercial OS world.
You think you get lots of calls for computer help from family now?
Wipe their drive and install Linux.
After they figure out that they can't install games or Microsoft Office, they'll be asking you to put Windows right back on.That's the exact opposite of my experience.
I've converted quite a few non-paying support-seeking relatives to Linux-only systems, and after a short bedding-in period the support requests drop to pretty much nothing.
It helps a bit that I put all their systems on a VPN, so when they do have a problem I can connect to them and do remote diagnosis.Your standard non-technical home user wants:WebE-mailOffice softwareMusicVideosand all that is there out of the box with a modern Linux installation.
Once they get past the idea that they need to buy a new bit of software for every new thing they want to do, they're happy as a guinea pig with one tail.The only people I haven't been able to convert are those who want to use their PC as a games console.
I leave them to their own devices.Incidentally - not one of my convertees has asked to revert.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074886</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075900</id>
	<title>We've had this discussion around the cooler.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258053000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I work as a programmer and we have this conversation a lot.</p><p>In the last few years I've noticed a serious trend.  We're now mostly 35-40 and we are tired of working on home computers.</p><p>The solution?  Get a mac.</p><p>EVERYONE who has one agrees (Don't believe me, ask around).  If you want to know, go ask a PC user how he supports his family's computers--the story will generally be like yours, then go ask a mac user how he supports his family's computers--If he's been using one long enough it's going to be by getting them to buy macs, then not having to mess with them any more.</p><p>It really is THAT easy.  Many mac users that I work with just tell their families that they don't understand the new-fangled windows even though they work with it every day (few programmers are lucky enough to be able to use macs at work).</p><p>For yourself--get a mac and install a windows partition for gaming, or if you are into high-performance gaming buy two computers... It's worth it.</p><p>By the way, this is from someone who occasionally tried macs before intel and couldn't stand them (and still would not use a pre-intel mac).  The dual-core and OSX are essential for usability because the Mac UI tends to be pretty chunky with just one CPU.</p><p>I've owned a computer since 1978.  I run a Linux server at home, and have 2 windows computers I NEVER turn on at home.  I use windows all the time at work.  I've built almost every computer I've owned except my 2 macs.  I'll probably never buy another non-mac (Might convert the mac mini to a linux server eventually.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I work as a programmer and we have this conversation a lot.In the last few years I 've noticed a serious trend .
We 're now mostly 35-40 and we are tired of working on home computers.The solution ?
Get a mac.EVERYONE who has one agrees ( Do n't believe me , ask around ) .
If you want to know , go ask a PC user how he supports his family 's computers--the story will generally be like yours , then go ask a mac user how he supports his family 's computers--If he 's been using one long enough it 's going to be by getting them to buy macs , then not having to mess with them any more.It really is THAT easy .
Many mac users that I work with just tell their families that they do n't understand the new-fangled windows even though they work with it every day ( few programmers are lucky enough to be able to use macs at work ) .For yourself--get a mac and install a windows partition for gaming , or if you are into high-performance gaming buy two computers... It 's worth it.By the way , this is from someone who occasionally tried macs before intel and could n't stand them ( and still would not use a pre-intel mac ) .
The dual-core and OSX are essential for usability because the Mac UI tends to be pretty chunky with just one CPU.I 've owned a computer since 1978 .
I run a Linux server at home , and have 2 windows computers I NEVER turn on at home .
I use windows all the time at work .
I 've built almost every computer I 've owned except my 2 macs .
I 'll probably never buy another non-mac ( Might convert the mac mini to a linux server eventually .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work as a programmer and we have this conversation a lot.In the last few years I've noticed a serious trend.
We're now mostly 35-40 and we are tired of working on home computers.The solution?
Get a mac.EVERYONE who has one agrees (Don't believe me, ask around).
If you want to know, go ask a PC user how he supports his family's computers--the story will generally be like yours, then go ask a mac user how he supports his family's computers--If he's been using one long enough it's going to be by getting them to buy macs, then not having to mess with them any more.It really is THAT easy.
Many mac users that I work with just tell their families that they don't understand the new-fangled windows even though they work with it every day (few programmers are lucky enough to be able to use macs at work).For yourself--get a mac and install a windows partition for gaming, or if you are into high-performance gaming buy two computers... It's worth it.By the way, this is from someone who occasionally tried macs before intel and couldn't stand them (and still would not use a pre-intel mac).
The dual-core and OSX are essential for usability because the Mac UI tends to be pretty chunky with just one CPU.I've owned a computer since 1978.
I run a Linux server at home, and have 2 windows computers I NEVER turn on at home.
I use windows all the time at work.
I've built almost every computer I've owned except my 2 macs.
I'll probably never buy another non-mac (Might convert the mac mini to a linux server eventually.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074676</id>
	<title>MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258049520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Try MS SteadyState</p><p>http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/sharedaccess/default.mspx</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Try MS SteadyStatehttp : //www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/sharedaccess/default.mspx</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try MS SteadyStatehttp://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/sharedaccess/default.mspx</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075478</id>
	<title>Use Parental Controls</title>
	<author>Conchobair</author>
	<datestamp>1258051620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They are there to control the parents, are they not?</htmltext>
<tokenext>They are there to control the parents , are they not ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They are there to control the parents, are they not?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075138</id>
	<title>Stop trying to help so much</title>
	<author>Minwee</author>
	<datestamp>1258050720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>something happens to my parents' computer, I spend a week or two trying to non-destructively fix the problem [...] and then if it's not easily fixed I'll reformat and start from scratch.</p></div></blockquote><p>Stop that.  If you insist on holding their hands, make one clean rebuild of their workstations just the way they like it and then image it.  Provide them with a restore disc which will restore that image and wipe everything else.  Give them a copy and keep spares hidden where only you can find or lose them.
</p><p>ANY time they come to you with some problem which even looks like they may have caused it themselves, just say "Stick in the restore disc".  There will be whining about lost data, missing Solitaire high scores and having to rewrite that paper on Chinatown (and it was a really good paper), but that would be a good time to learn about something called "backups" and "not wasting your time".
</p><p>If you can find them a copy of "Not Being A Dummy For Dummies" then that might help too.  It has been out of print for a while, though, so good luck.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>something happens to my parents ' computer , I spend a week or two trying to non-destructively fix the problem [ ... ] and then if it 's not easily fixed I 'll reformat and start from scratch.Stop that .
If you insist on holding their hands , make one clean rebuild of their workstations just the way they like it and then image it .
Provide them with a restore disc which will restore that image and wipe everything else .
Give them a copy and keep spares hidden where only you can find or lose them .
ANY time they come to you with some problem which even looks like they may have caused it themselves , just say " Stick in the restore disc " .
There will be whining about lost data , missing Solitaire high scores and having to rewrite that paper on Chinatown ( and it was a really good paper ) , but that would be a good time to learn about something called " backups " and " not wasting your time " .
If you can find them a copy of " Not Being A Dummy For Dummies " then that might help too .
It has been out of print for a while , though , so good luck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>something happens to my parents' computer, I spend a week or two trying to non-destructively fix the problem [...] and then if it's not easily fixed I'll reformat and start from scratch.Stop that.
If you insist on holding their hands, make one clean rebuild of their workstations just the way they like it and then image it.
Provide them with a restore disc which will restore that image and wipe everything else.
Give them a copy and keep spares hidden where only you can find or lose them.
ANY time they come to you with some problem which even looks like they may have caused it themselves, just say "Stick in the restore disc".
There will be whining about lost data, missing Solitaire high scores and having to rewrite that paper on Chinatown (and it was a really good paper), but that would be a good time to learn about something called "backups" and "not wasting your time".
If you can find them a copy of "Not Being A Dummy For Dummies" then that might help too.
It has been out of print for a while, though, so good luck.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076622</id>
	<title>Darwine</title>
	<author>tepples</author>
	<datestamp>1258055280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I got my wife a Mac and the tech support nearly stopped.</p></div><p>Watch it start again once she installs one of the various Darwine packages in order to use some Windows-exclusive program that she needs.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I got my wife a Mac and the tech support nearly stopped.Watch it start again once she installs one of the various Darwine packages in order to use some Windows-exclusive program that she needs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I got my wife a Mac and the tech support nearly stopped.Watch it start again once she installs one of the various Darwine packages in order to use some Windows-exclusive program that she needs.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075962</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075064</id>
	<title>DeepFreeze</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258050480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>OK, we all know a determined user can break it, but for the average home user, it, combine with a big home NAS (andd back-up NAS), Deep Freeze will reduce your support load to almost nothing.  Just make sure to get a good disk image to make future metal restores easier, and make sure<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/user redirects to the NAS.</p><p>http://www.faronics.com/html/deepfreeze.asp</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>OK , we all know a determined user can break it , but for the average home user , it , combine with a big home NAS ( andd back-up NAS ) , Deep Freeze will reduce your support load to almost nothing .
Just make sure to get a good disk image to make future metal restores easier , and make sure /user redirects to the NAS.http : //www.faronics.com/html/deepfreeze.asp</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OK, we all know a determined user can break it, but for the average home user, it, combine with a big home NAS (andd back-up NAS), Deep Freeze will reduce your support load to almost nothing.
Just make sure to get a good disk image to make future metal restores easier, and make sure /user redirects to the NAS.http://www.faronics.com/html/deepfreeze.asp</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077648</id>
	<title>charge</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258058940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I charge friends and relatives.</p><p>$25 an hour for PC. $5 for Mac.</p><p>Many times I'll waive the fee, but it helps cut down on unnecessary questions.</p><p>Mom gets support for free.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I charge friends and relatives. $ 25 an hour for PC .
$ 5 for Mac.Many times I 'll waive the fee , but it helps cut down on unnecessary questions.Mom gets support for free .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I charge friends and relatives.$25 an hour for PC.
$5 for Mac.Many times I'll waive the fee, but it helps cut down on unnecessary questions.Mom gets support for free.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30079134</id>
	<title>Re:Install Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Joe Mucchiello</author>
	<datestamp>1258021200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The real killer is Quicken. Yeah, gnucash has most of the same functionality. But it took so long for my mother to get use to Quicken that if I tried to switch her to gnucash I don't know if I could handle the "where do I do this?" questions.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The real killer is Quicken .
Yeah , gnucash has most of the same functionality .
But it took so long for my mother to get use to Quicken that if I tried to switch her to gnucash I do n't know if I could handle the " where do I do this ?
" questions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The real killer is Quicken.
Yeah, gnucash has most of the same functionality.
But it took so long for my mother to get use to Quicken that if I tried to switch her to gnucash I don't know if I could handle the "where do I do this?
" questions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076850</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30079078</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>Jaqenn</author>
	<datestamp>1258021020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Next time you reformat, make a ~20gb scratch partition in a non-windows-type.<br> <br>

Then use <a href="http://clonezilla.org/" title="clonezilla.org">CloneZilla</a> [clonezilla.org] to make an image of the working system and store the archive on the scratch partition.<br> <br>

I did this to my parent's computer and left them with a CloneZilla bootable CD.  They haven't actually USED it yet, but I anticipate that the restoration process will go much faster next time, and can probably be directed over the phone instead of them waiting for me to be next to the PC.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Next time you reformat , make a ~ 20gb scratch partition in a non-windows-type .
Then use CloneZilla [ clonezilla.org ] to make an image of the working system and store the archive on the scratch partition .
I did this to my parent 's computer and left them with a CloneZilla bootable CD .
They have n't actually USED it yet , but I anticipate that the restoration process will go much faster next time , and can probably be directed over the phone instead of them waiting for me to be next to the PC .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Next time you reformat, make a ~20gb scratch partition in a non-windows-type.
Then use CloneZilla [clonezilla.org] to make an image of the working system and store the archive on the scratch partition.
I did this to my parent's computer and left them with a CloneZilla bootable CD.
They haven't actually USED it yet, but I anticipate that the restoration process will go much faster next time, and can probably be directed over the phone instead of them waiting for me to be next to the PC.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074684</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075566</id>
	<title>Simple fix</title>
	<author>Borommakot\_15</author>
	<datestamp>1258051860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Anyone who is too stupid or incompetent to get simple things through their head get my favorite simple fix..
<br> <br>
Go back to pencil and paper.  Period.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Anyone who is too stupid or incompetent to get simple things through their head get my favorite simple fix. . Go back to pencil and paper .
Period .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anyone who is too stupid or incompetent to get simple things through their head get my favorite simple fix..
 
Go back to pencil and paper.
Period.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075590</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258051980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My 67-year-old mother-in-law just got Ubuntu and OpenOffice installed, she loves it. It's "so much faster than Windows" (on her old machine) and she hasn't managed to break it yet, though she's sure tried!</p><p>Hurray, opening docx files is possible again without buying more software!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My 67-year-old mother-in-law just got Ubuntu and OpenOffice installed , she loves it .
It 's " so much faster than Windows " ( on her old machine ) and she has n't managed to break it yet , though she 's sure tried ! Hurray , opening docx files is possible again without buying more software !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My 67-year-old mother-in-law just got Ubuntu and OpenOffice installed, she loves it.
It's "so much faster than Windows" (on her old machine) and she hasn't managed to break it yet, though she's sure tried!Hurray, opening docx files is possible again without buying more software!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074886</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074934</id>
	<title>I know the problem</title>
	<author>Qbertino</author>
	<datestamp>1258050180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've just explained, over the phone, for the umpteenth time, to my SO how to copy and paste. It can be very frustrating. However there were things she actually did understand. She didn't ask what and where the 'Apple-Key' was, which is a step forward. I expect her to learn it completely in the next half year or so.</p><p>If your folks do nothing but surf and mail you should install Linux for them and explain the basics of handling it whenever the need arises. Viruscleaning and virus avoiding is a non-trivial task and I run into these problems quite often. And I'm an expert with 25 years of experience. Being unavailable once in a while is a good thing too for techsupport - if it's something they can easyly figure out for themselves.</p><p>Bottom line:<br>n00by? -&gt; You're getting a Unix-based OS (OS X or Ubuntu Linux would be my choice) and a non-admin user account. That's it.<br>Experienced user? -&gt; Here's your box, do with it whatever you want.</p><p>Be patient and reteach the basics of computing and surfing over and over again. It'll stick some day.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've just explained , over the phone , for the umpteenth time , to my SO how to copy and paste .
It can be very frustrating .
However there were things she actually did understand .
She did n't ask what and where the 'Apple-Key ' was , which is a step forward .
I expect her to learn it completely in the next half year or so.If your folks do nothing but surf and mail you should install Linux for them and explain the basics of handling it whenever the need arises .
Viruscleaning and virus avoiding is a non-trivial task and I run into these problems quite often .
And I 'm an expert with 25 years of experience .
Being unavailable once in a while is a good thing too for techsupport - if it 's something they can easyly figure out for themselves.Bottom line : n00by ?
- &gt; You 're getting a Unix-based OS ( OS X or Ubuntu Linux would be my choice ) and a non-admin user account .
That 's it.Experienced user ?
- &gt; Here 's your box , do with it whatever you want.Be patient and reteach the basics of computing and surfing over and over again .
It 'll stick some day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've just explained, over the phone, for the umpteenth time, to my SO how to copy and paste.
It can be very frustrating.
However there were things she actually did understand.
She didn't ask what and where the 'Apple-Key' was, which is a step forward.
I expect her to learn it completely in the next half year or so.If your folks do nothing but surf and mail you should install Linux for them and explain the basics of handling it whenever the need arises.
Viruscleaning and virus avoiding is a non-trivial task and I run into these problems quite often.
And I'm an expert with 25 years of experience.
Being unavailable once in a while is a good thing too for techsupport - if it's something they can easyly figure out for themselves.Bottom line:n00by?
-&gt; You're getting a Unix-based OS (OS X or Ubuntu Linux would be my choice) and a non-admin user account.
That's it.Experienced user?
-&gt; Here's your box, do with it whatever you want.Be patient and reteach the basics of computing and surfing over and over again.
It'll stick some day.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076294</id>
	<title>Re:The butterfly Parable</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258054260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Dude, don't leave us hanging...</p><p>So what happened to the butterfly?  Was it like Forest Gump and it went on to meet presidents and stuff?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dude , do n't leave us hanging...So what happened to the butterfly ?
Was it like Forest Gump and it went on to meet presidents and stuff ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dude, don't leave us hanging...So what happened to the butterfly?
Was it like Forest Gump and it went on to meet presidents and stuff?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076368</id>
	<title>Several opetions</title>
	<author>Powys</author>
	<datestamp>1258054440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>First, don't jump the second they need help.  It may sound sadistic, but let them suffer for a while with their mistakes.  Make them pay for the consequences of doing stupid things.
Second, if the first doesn't work, make them pay (money) for it.  Make their mistake hit their wallet.  If you don't want to charge them (i sure as hell wouldn't), make them buy expensive antivirus.  Make them have consequences.

We have all seen spoiled children who are never disciplined.  They never learn life lessons.  They get everything they want.  Make them live with their OWN mistakes.  If they don't have consequences, what is their motivation to learn how to live on the web?</htmltext>
<tokenext>First , do n't jump the second they need help .
It may sound sadistic , but let them suffer for a while with their mistakes .
Make them pay for the consequences of doing stupid things .
Second , if the first does n't work , make them pay ( money ) for it .
Make their mistake hit their wallet .
If you do n't want to charge them ( i sure as hell would n't ) , make them buy expensive antivirus .
Make them have consequences .
We have all seen spoiled children who are never disciplined .
They never learn life lessons .
They get everything they want .
Make them live with their OWN mistakes .
If they do n't have consequences , what is their motivation to learn how to live on the web ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First, don't jump the second they need help.
It may sound sadistic, but let them suffer for a while with their mistakes.
Make them pay for the consequences of doing stupid things.
Second, if the first doesn't work, make them pay (money) for it.
Make their mistake hit their wallet.
If you don't want to charge them (i sure as hell wouldn't), make them buy expensive antivirus.
Make them have consequences.
We have all seen spoiled children who are never disciplined.
They never learn life lessons.
They get everything they want.
Make them live with their OWN mistakes.
If they don't have consequences, what is their motivation to learn how to live on the web?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075760</id>
	<title>Here's what I did...</title>
	<author>nsd2142</author>
	<datestamp>1258052460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm a security consultant for a very large corporation, and every weekend I was coming home to find my three kids computers infected with something, from the MS IE Browser hijacked to viruses.  They would complain how slow it was, and all too often things would break.  Finally one day, I had enough.  I want the weekends free!  I ripped out the WIndows laptops and got all three kids and the wife an Apple laptop - and I haven't had a problem since.  I'm not in any way implying Apple is more secure than Windows - IT IS.  I don't have hijacked browsers, registry corruption, viruses, malware, bloat ware, etc.  It just works and it's been working for the last two years.   If you want to maintain your sanity and get away from being the Family IT Guy, don't run Windows in my opinion.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm a security consultant for a very large corporation , and every weekend I was coming home to find my three kids computers infected with something , from the MS IE Browser hijacked to viruses .
They would complain how slow it was , and all too often things would break .
Finally one day , I had enough .
I want the weekends free !
I ripped out the WIndows laptops and got all three kids and the wife an Apple laptop - and I have n't had a problem since .
I 'm not in any way implying Apple is more secure than Windows - IT IS .
I do n't have hijacked browsers , registry corruption , viruses , malware , bloat ware , etc .
It just works and it 's been working for the last two years .
If you want to maintain your sanity and get away from being the Family IT Guy , do n't run Windows in my opinion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm a security consultant for a very large corporation, and every weekend I was coming home to find my three kids computers infected with something, from the MS IE Browser hijacked to viruses.
They would complain how slow it was, and all too often things would break.
Finally one day, I had enough.
I want the weekends free!
I ripped out the WIndows laptops and got all three kids and the wife an Apple laptop - and I haven't had a problem since.
I'm not in any way implying Apple is more secure than Windows - IT IS.
I don't have hijacked browsers, registry corruption, viruses, malware, bloat ware, etc.
It just works and it's been working for the last two years.
If you want to maintain your sanity and get away from being the Family IT Guy, don't run Windows in my opinion.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076434</id>
	<title>Video? Analogies?  How about live demonstrations</title>
	<author>holophrastic</author>
	<datestamp>1258054620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Take a nice-looking cardboard box, put on an address label, and place it at their door-step like any ordinary couriered package.</p><p>When they open it, arrange for a pound of glitter to effectively explode everywhere.</p><p>It's not harmful -- obviously -- but glitter will take something like six years to clean up.  The point is, they just opened an unknown package, simply because it was there.  And they'll be reminded of it every time they see another one of those billion tiny particles.</p><p>"Consider the source" isn't only a journalism thing.</p><p>Let them know that at any time, you could do it again.  Then, one day, send them an e-mail that changes their wallpaper to a photograph of glitter -- or that box.</p><p>Just keep sending them non-harmful malware of your own.  Except that yours is obvious -- they'll know when you've infected them.  Let them spend all of their time trying to avoid your "pranks" and in the process their avoid real stuff.</p><p>And then do to them what I did to my grandparents.  They gave their password to a friend when that friend sayed over.  Needless to say, I spent three days cleaning up the crap that friend did.  So I changed their login password to something that they'd be too embarrased to give out.  And they remember every time they sit down to unlock their computer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Take a nice-looking cardboard box , put on an address label , and place it at their door-step like any ordinary couriered package.When they open it , arrange for a pound of glitter to effectively explode everywhere.It 's not harmful -- obviously -- but glitter will take something like six years to clean up .
The point is , they just opened an unknown package , simply because it was there .
And they 'll be reminded of it every time they see another one of those billion tiny particles .
" Consider the source " is n't only a journalism thing.Let them know that at any time , you could do it again .
Then , one day , send them an e-mail that changes their wallpaper to a photograph of glitter -- or that box.Just keep sending them non-harmful malware of your own .
Except that yours is obvious -- they 'll know when you 've infected them .
Let them spend all of their time trying to avoid your " pranks " and in the process their avoid real stuff.And then do to them what I did to my grandparents .
They gave their password to a friend when that friend sayed over .
Needless to say , I spent three days cleaning up the crap that friend did .
So I changed their login password to something that they 'd be too embarrased to give out .
And they remember every time they sit down to unlock their computer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Take a nice-looking cardboard box, put on an address label, and place it at their door-step like any ordinary couriered package.When they open it, arrange for a pound of glitter to effectively explode everywhere.It's not harmful -- obviously -- but glitter will take something like six years to clean up.
The point is, they just opened an unknown package, simply because it was there.
And they'll be reminded of it every time they see another one of those billion tiny particles.
"Consider the source" isn't only a journalism thing.Let them know that at any time, you could do it again.
Then, one day, send them an e-mail that changes their wallpaper to a photograph of glitter -- or that box.Just keep sending them non-harmful malware of your own.
Except that yours is obvious -- they'll know when you've infected them.
Let them spend all of their time trying to avoid your "pranks" and in the process their avoid real stuff.And then do to them what I did to my grandparents.
They gave their password to a friend when that friend sayed over.
Needless to say, I spent three days cleaning up the crap that friend did.
So I changed their login password to something that they'd be too embarrased to give out.
And they remember every time they sit down to unlock their computer.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076748</id>
	<title>Just the way things are</title>
	<author>gx5000</author>
	<datestamp>1258055700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There are many good suggestions on here but let's face facts...
Some simple webpages will infect your family, infections are hard to avoid...
Set them up as non Admins on their PC's and make an image using Acronis or Ghost.
(Acronis is great).
Set a small portion of the C drive as system and point their Docs at a folder on a second partition, and point anything else they might lose in a re imageing scheme there too.
Make sure the Images you create are on D or a second drive.
Then show them how to restore their PC's (takes less than 4 minutes if you set it up right).
Voila, with that simple one time setup I keep more than just my family up and running...</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are many good suggestions on here but let 's face facts.. . Some simple webpages will infect your family , infections are hard to avoid.. . Set them up as non Admins on their PC 's and make an image using Acronis or Ghost .
( Acronis is great ) .
Set a small portion of the C drive as system and point their Docs at a folder on a second partition , and point anything else they might lose in a re imageing scheme there too .
Make sure the Images you create are on D or a second drive .
Then show them how to restore their PC 's ( takes less than 4 minutes if you set it up right ) .
Voila , with that simple one time setup I keep more than just my family up and running.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are many good suggestions on here but let's face facts...
Some simple webpages will infect your family, infections are hard to avoid...
Set them up as non Admins on their PC's and make an image using Acronis or Ghost.
(Acronis is great).
Set a small portion of the C drive as system and point their Docs at a folder on a second partition, and point anything else they might lose in a re imageing scheme there too.
Make sure the Images you create are on D or a second drive.
Then show them how to restore their PC's (takes less than 4 minutes if you set it up right).
Voila, with that simple one time setup I keep more than just my family up and running...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077032</id>
	<title>Re:Correct User Access</title>
	<author>Dutchboy2000</author>
	<datestamp>1258056720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm not sure about the Firefox issue. I've set up both my wife and myself to use standard user accounts on WinXP and I reserve the administrator account for (gasp!) administration. We both use Firefox as our main browser and I haven't had any issues with updates even as a restricted user. If you want to reinstall Firefox, then you would definitely have to be signed on as administrator. But, just regular browser updates work fine for us. YMMV obviously.
<br> <br>
By the way, I agree with the comments about the lack of issues you have when you run as a standard user on WinXP. Making this one change was the single biggest thing I did that completely eliminated any problems with virii or trojans.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not sure about the Firefox issue .
I 've set up both my wife and myself to use standard user accounts on WinXP and I reserve the administrator account for ( gasp !
) administration .
We both use Firefox as our main browser and I have n't had any issues with updates even as a restricted user .
If you want to reinstall Firefox , then you would definitely have to be signed on as administrator .
But , just regular browser updates work fine for us .
YMMV obviously .
By the way , I agree with the comments about the lack of issues you have when you run as a standard user on WinXP .
Making this one change was the single biggest thing I did that completely eliminated any problems with virii or trojans .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not sure about the Firefox issue.
I've set up both my wife and myself to use standard user accounts on WinXP and I reserve the administrator account for (gasp!
) administration.
We both use Firefox as our main browser and I haven't had any issues with updates even as a restricted user.
If you want to reinstall Firefox, then you would definitely have to be signed on as administrator.
But, just regular browser updates work fine for us.
YMMV obviously.
By the way, I agree with the comments about the lack of issues you have when you run as a standard user on WinXP.
Making this one change was the single biggest thing I did that completely eliminated any problems with virii or trojans.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075546</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30079700</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>secretcurse</author>
	<datestamp>1258023000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>No kidding, she'll stop bringing nachos and mountain dew to the basement.</htmltext>
<tokenext>No kidding , she 'll stop bringing nachos and mountain dew to the basement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No kidding, she'll stop bringing nachos and mountain dew to the basement.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077110</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30082500</id>
	<title>DISA Has online IA training</title>
	<author>drizato</author>
	<datestamp>1258037820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>DISA has some simple and straight-forward IA training available on-line.  The DoD IA training includes interactive exercises.  There is also a module on phishing.  Check it out.

<a href="http://iase.disa.mil/eta/index.html#onlinetraining" title="disa.mil" rel="nofollow">http://iase.disa.mil/eta/index.html#onlinetraining</a> [disa.mil]

For most techie's it is far to basic, but based on your target audience, I would recommend it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>DISA has some simple and straight-forward IA training available on-line .
The DoD IA training includes interactive exercises .
There is also a module on phishing .
Check it out .
http : //iase.disa.mil/eta/index.html # onlinetraining [ disa.mil ] For most techie 's it is far to basic , but based on your target audience , I would recommend it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>DISA has some simple and straight-forward IA training available on-line.
The DoD IA training includes interactive exercises.
There is also a module on phishing.
Check it out.
http://iase.disa.mil/eta/index.html#onlinetraining [disa.mil]

For most techie's it is far to basic, but based on your target audience, I would recommend it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30081386</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>KaoticEvil</author>
	<datestamp>1258030020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Couch? What couch? The DOG gets the couch, and he gets the dog house<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Couch ?
What couch ?
The DOG gets the couch , and he gets the dog house ; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Couch?
What couch?
The DOG gets the couch, and he gets the dog house ;-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076290</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30081182</id>
	<title>Re:Buy them a Mac</title>
	<author>zuperduperman</author>
	<datestamp>1258028940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Apple is on a downhill slope as far as this stuff is concerned.   The malware writers are starting to notice that it's getting to a useful percentage of users AND many of those users are smug / stupid / whatever and think their computers are invincible.</p><p>The same result is probably achievable for much less money and effort by getting them all Windows 7 and setting them up as low privileged users.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Apple is on a downhill slope as far as this stuff is concerned .
The malware writers are starting to notice that it 's getting to a useful percentage of users AND many of those users are smug / stupid / whatever and think their computers are invincible.The same result is probably achievable for much less money and effort by getting them all Windows 7 and setting them up as low privileged users .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Apple is on a downhill slope as far as this stuff is concerned.
The malware writers are starting to notice that it's getting to a useful percentage of users AND many of those users are smug / stupid / whatever and think their computers are invincible.The same result is probably achievable for much less money and effort by getting them all Windows 7 and setting them up as low privileged users.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074696</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30085134</id>
	<title>Re:Get a Mac</title>
	<author>pAnkRat</author>
	<datestamp>1258114560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's exactly the way I did it, I stopped sopprting windows for \_any one\_ in 2002. It was way better afterwards.<br>Questions about windwows only  get a "yeah that sure sucks when it happens, doesn't it....." answer.</p><p>My wife,her mom and my sister all switched to ubuntu (allthough in 2006),  I spezificaly told them only to use software installed with sysnaptic. "You don't want anything else"</p><p>Works very good.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's exactly the way I did it , I stopped sopprting windows for \ _any one \ _ in 2002 .
It was way better afterwards.Questions about windwows only get a " yeah that sure sucks when it happens , does n't it..... " answer.My wife,her mom and my sister all switched to ubuntu ( allthough in 2006 ) , I spezificaly told them only to use software installed with sysnaptic .
" You do n't want anything else " Works very good .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's exactly the way I did it, I stopped sopprting windows for \_any one\_ in 2002.
It was way better afterwards.Questions about windwows only  get a "yeah that sure sucks when it happens, doesn't it....." answer.My wife,her mom and my sister all switched to ubuntu (allthough in 2006),  I spezificaly told them only to use software installed with sysnaptic.
"You don't want anything else"Works very good.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076310</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076862</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>Veritech\_Ace</author>
	<datestamp>1258056120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is exactly what I did, and have not had a tech support headache since.  Yes, there's a price premium, but the Mac is a perfect solution for a low-tech user.  Anyone who actually needs the advantages of a Windows machine (more software, hardcore gaming, etc.) is probably also technical enough to know not to click on malware sites, to know how to install drivers, etc.  For the rest, a simple and safe Mac environment is optimal.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is exactly what I did , and have not had a tech support headache since .
Yes , there 's a price premium , but the Mac is a perfect solution for a low-tech user .
Anyone who actually needs the advantages of a Windows machine ( more software , hardcore gaming , etc .
) is probably also technical enough to know not to click on malware sites , to know how to install drivers , etc .
For the rest , a simple and safe Mac environment is optimal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is exactly what I did, and have not had a tech support headache since.
Yes, there's a price premium, but the Mac is a perfect solution for a low-tech user.
Anyone who actually needs the advantages of a Windows machine (more software, hardcore gaming, etc.
) is probably also technical enough to know not to click on malware sites, to know how to install drivers, etc.
For the rest, a simple and safe Mac environment is optimal.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075378</id>
	<title>Re:Give Up</title>
	<author>Mister\_Stoopid</author>
	<datestamp>1258051380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Everything you said is true, but what is an average person supposed to do about malware riding on downloaded programs?  People like you &amp; I have, through years of internet use, developed a sixth sense for "good" vs "bad" on the internet, but you can't teach an average person how to identify a "bad" download.  For them, it pretty much comes down to one of two options: (1)take everything, including the malware, or (2)never download anything, ever.  I'm not sure the latter is a realistic option...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Everything you said is true , but what is an average person supposed to do about malware riding on downloaded programs ?
People like you &amp; I have , through years of internet use , developed a sixth sense for " good " vs " bad " on the internet , but you ca n't teach an average person how to identify a " bad " download .
For them , it pretty much comes down to one of two options : ( 1 ) take everything , including the malware , or ( 2 ) never download anything , ever .
I 'm not sure the latter is a realistic option.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everything you said is true, but what is an average person supposed to do about malware riding on downloaded programs?
People like you &amp; I have, through years of internet use, developed a sixth sense for "good" vs "bad" on the internet, but you can't teach an average person how to identify a "bad" download.
For them, it pretty much comes down to one of two options: (1)take everything, including the malware, or (2)never download anything, ever.
I'm not sure the latter is a realistic option...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074962</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076382</id>
	<title>The solution is positively simple --</title>
	<author>Eggplant62</author>
	<datestamp>1258054500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Make them switch to Linux. You now only provide support for computers running a secure operating system that's impervious to the malware threat.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Make them switch to Linux .
You now only provide support for computers running a secure operating system that 's impervious to the malware threat .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Make them switch to Linux.
You now only provide support for computers running a secure operating system that's impervious to the malware threat.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075186</id>
	<title>My solution</title>
	<author>linuxguy</author>
	<datestamp>1258050900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Take away admin access.  Let them have access as regular users who do not have enough privileges to install anything.</p><p>Over the years I have figured out what software they need.  I install it when I set up their machine, and that is it.  After that the machine is locked down.  Very seldom will they come to me and ask me to install anything else for them.  Sometimes they'll ask about some silly piece of software and its easy to say "No".</p><p>I have not had a problem since.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Take away admin access .
Let them have access as regular users who do not have enough privileges to install anything.Over the years I have figured out what software they need .
I install it when I set up their machine , and that is it .
After that the machine is locked down .
Very seldom will they come to me and ask me to install anything else for them .
Sometimes they 'll ask about some silly piece of software and its easy to say " No " .I have not had a problem since .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Take away admin access.
Let them have access as regular users who do not have enough privileges to install anything.Over the years I have figured out what software they need.
I install it when I set up their machine, and that is it.
After that the machine is locked down.
Very seldom will they come to me and ask me to install anything else for them.
Sometimes they'll ask about some silly piece of software and its easy to say "No".I have not had a problem since.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075690</id>
	<title>It's true, in spades.</title>
	<author>El Jynx</author>
	<datestamp>1258052280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My mom switched to Mac. Result: I only have to really do something semi-serious (i.e. more than 30 mins work) once every 2 years. My (mentally handicapped!) brother uses a Mac. Aside from an occasional correction of his mail settings via ARD Admin I'm hassle-free.</p><p>My brother and his g/f still use Windows. I just spent four f***ing days reinstalling Windows XP because Vista figured Autocad was either already installed, couldn't be installed, or shouldn't be installed. I told them it was the last time and I would only support them if they bought Macs. Microsoft is a group of clueless arrogant monopolists as far as I'm concerned. Apple is also arrogant but at least they make something decent. Vista scared me into fits and out of family tech support for life unless they pay me $ 75,- an hour. That got their attention, I can tell you. After some "but what will we do then?" comments of disbelief I explained my motivations to them and told them the truth: Windows is a bloated platform with no vision designed by a company that is run more by lawyers than by true genius and I've given up on them completely. Sorry if this is a bit rantish (I suppose it is a rant) but I really want to underline it for you in simple terms: M$ is your problem.</p><p>I think Apple has several ups over Windows:<br>- it's designed to be learned by playing with it<br>- it gets out of your way instead of in your face<br>- it has a much, much, much clearer structure; people can find the things / settings they need more easily, and with less actions. Try setting up a dual monitor and occasionally attaching e.g. a beamer. It only costs 1 or 2 clicks after the 5 whole clicks you need to configure it the first time around. Try doing that in Windows and you're at least 20 clicks farther, and of course something or other b0rks along the way every f***ing time<br>- supporting it remotely is pretty much hassle-free aside from opening a port here and there (or else you could use something like Teamviewer)<br>- if you ever DO need to reinstall, the migration assistant will keep your settings whole, and you can drag/drop the software from the old installation; it's MUCH easier than reinstalling everything from scratch.</p><p>If you're in doubt, download it and stuff it into a VM and play with it. See how long it takes you to get mail etc set up. Now don't get me wrong - no OS is perfect, and OSX has its idiosyncrasies like any other - but it has a lot less of them, and any issues are usually fairly well documented. Just stay away from newest releases until the 10.x.1 update is out, at the least, and you will do fine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My mom switched to Mac .
Result : I only have to really do something semi-serious ( i.e .
more than 30 mins work ) once every 2 years .
My ( mentally handicapped !
) brother uses a Mac .
Aside from an occasional correction of his mail settings via ARD Admin I 'm hassle-free.My brother and his g/f still use Windows .
I just spent four f * * * ing days reinstalling Windows XP because Vista figured Autocad was either already installed , could n't be installed , or should n't be installed .
I told them it was the last time and I would only support them if they bought Macs .
Microsoft is a group of clueless arrogant monopolists as far as I 'm concerned .
Apple is also arrogant but at least they make something decent .
Vista scared me into fits and out of family tech support for life unless they pay me $ 75,- an hour .
That got their attention , I can tell you .
After some " but what will we do then ?
" comments of disbelief I explained my motivations to them and told them the truth : Windows is a bloated platform with no vision designed by a company that is run more by lawyers than by true genius and I 've given up on them completely .
Sorry if this is a bit rantish ( I suppose it is a rant ) but I really want to underline it for you in simple terms : M $ is your problem.I think Apple has several ups over Windows : - it 's designed to be learned by playing with it- it gets out of your way instead of in your face- it has a much , much , much clearer structure ; people can find the things / settings they need more easily , and with less actions .
Try setting up a dual monitor and occasionally attaching e.g .
a beamer .
It only costs 1 or 2 clicks after the 5 whole clicks you need to configure it the first time around .
Try doing that in Windows and you 're at least 20 clicks farther , and of course something or other b0rks along the way every f * * * ing time- supporting it remotely is pretty much hassle-free aside from opening a port here and there ( or else you could use something like Teamviewer ) - if you ever DO need to reinstall , the migration assistant will keep your settings whole , and you can drag/drop the software from the old installation ; it 's MUCH easier than reinstalling everything from scratch.If you 're in doubt , download it and stuff it into a VM and play with it .
See how long it takes you to get mail etc set up .
Now do n't get me wrong - no OS is perfect , and OSX has its idiosyncrasies like any other - but it has a lot less of them , and any issues are usually fairly well documented .
Just stay away from newest releases until the 10.x.1 update is out , at the least , and you will do fine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My mom switched to Mac.
Result: I only have to really do something semi-serious (i.e.
more than 30 mins work) once every 2 years.
My (mentally handicapped!
) brother uses a Mac.
Aside from an occasional correction of his mail settings via ARD Admin I'm hassle-free.My brother and his g/f still use Windows.
I just spent four f***ing days reinstalling Windows XP because Vista figured Autocad was either already installed, couldn't be installed, or shouldn't be installed.
I told them it was the last time and I would only support them if they bought Macs.
Microsoft is a group of clueless arrogant monopolists as far as I'm concerned.
Apple is also arrogant but at least they make something decent.
Vista scared me into fits and out of family tech support for life unless they pay me $ 75,- an hour.
That got their attention, I can tell you.
After some "but what will we do then?
" comments of disbelief I explained my motivations to them and told them the truth: Windows is a bloated platform with no vision designed by a company that is run more by lawyers than by true genius and I've given up on them completely.
Sorry if this is a bit rantish (I suppose it is a rant) but I really want to underline it for you in simple terms: M$ is your problem.I think Apple has several ups over Windows:- it's designed to be learned by playing with it- it gets out of your way instead of in your face- it has a much, much, much clearer structure; people can find the things / settings they need more easily, and with less actions.
Try setting up a dual monitor and occasionally attaching e.g.
a beamer.
It only costs 1 or 2 clicks after the 5 whole clicks you need to configure it the first time around.
Try doing that in Windows and you're at least 20 clicks farther, and of course something or other b0rks along the way every f***ing time- supporting it remotely is pretty much hassle-free aside from opening a port here and there (or else you could use something like Teamviewer)- if you ever DO need to reinstall, the migration assistant will keep your settings whole, and you can drag/drop the software from the old installation; it's MUCH easier than reinstalling everything from scratch.If you're in doubt, download it and stuff it into a VM and play with it.
See how long it takes you to get mail etc set up.
Now don't get me wrong - no OS is perfect, and OSX has its idiosyncrasies like any other - but it has a lot less of them, and any issues are usually fairly well documented.
Just stay away from newest releases until the 10.x.1 update is out, at the least, and you will do fine.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078522</id>
	<title>Not so fast there, kid.</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1258018920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>problem solved.. at least until linux malware becomes prevalent</i> </p><p>This assumes your family doesn't have a ten to fifteen year investment in Windows hardware, software, and peripherals.</p><p>The peripheral can be anything from a multifunction printer to an embroidery machine or an Orion telescope.</p><p>The geek makes the computer his hobby. For others it's a tool.</p><p> If you break it, you've bought it.</p><p>The HTPC plays the Blu-Ray disk it was designed for.</p><p>iTunes. Rhapsody.</p><p> The gamer won't trade-in his ticket to Dragon's Age or WOW for the joys of Nethack.</p><p>You have to make it work. You have to make <b>all</b> of it work - or you won't be welcomed back.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>problem solved.. at least until linux malware becomes prevalent This assumes your family does n't have a ten to fifteen year investment in Windows hardware , software , and peripherals.The peripheral can be anything from a multifunction printer to an embroidery machine or an Orion telescope.The geek makes the computer his hobby .
For others it 's a tool .
If you break it , you 've bought it.The HTPC plays the Blu-Ray disk it was designed for.iTunes .
Rhapsody. The gamer wo n't trade-in his ticket to Dragon 's Age or WOW for the joys of Nethack.You have to make it work .
You have to make all of it work - or you wo n't be welcomed back .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>problem solved.. at least until linux malware becomes prevalent This assumes your family doesn't have a ten to fifteen year investment in Windows hardware, software, and peripherals.The peripheral can be anything from a multifunction printer to an embroidery machine or an Orion telescope.The geek makes the computer his hobby.
For others it's a tool.
If you break it, you've bought it.The HTPC plays the Blu-Ray disk it was designed for.iTunes.
Rhapsody. The gamer won't trade-in his ticket to Dragon's Age or WOW for the joys of Nethack.You have to make it work.
You have to make all of it work - or you won't be welcomed back.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074684</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075056</id>
	<title>The 9-year-old is the key</title>
	<author>BenEnglishAtHome</author>
	<datestamp>1258050420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sounds like it's time to transition your support job to the next generation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds like it 's time to transition your support job to the next generation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds like it's time to transition your support job to the next generation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075154</id>
	<title>Limited user + EasyVPN</title>
	<author>hairyfeet</author>
	<datestamp>1258050780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you don't want to deal with the bugs the easiest way is to not allow them to get them in the first place. being a PC repairman I had this same problem with my dad, who frankly could tear up a Sherman tank with a toothbrush. Run them as a limited user and set up Comodo EasyVPN (with admin privileges of course) so you can install any software they might "need" and you should be good to go. Now the only time I have to go deal with my dad's computers is when he picks up a new piece of hardware like a camera.</p><p> Here is the <a href="http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file/fid,77092/description.html" title="pcworld.com">link</a> [pcworld.com] for the 32bit version of EasyVPN, they also have an x64 if like me you have moved past 32bit. Your family will love how you can "magically" install stuff without having to be there, and you'll love not having them tear up the PC when you're not around. A win/win in my book.</p><p>

 But in my experience trying to "educate" users is like pissing in the wind, bud. You see there is this thing called "social engineering" and the <a href="http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000347.html" title="codinghorror.com">dancing bunny problem</a> [codinghorror.com]. You see they WANT to see the bunnies, and no matter how many times you say <a href="http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/b/be/Ackbar.jpg" title="wikia.com">it's a trap!</a> [wikia.com] they will completely ignore you and go right ahead and do whatever they need to in order to see the bunnies. So as long as they are allowed admin rights then <a href="http://raoworld.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/facepalm\_implied.jpg" title="wordpress.com">this</a> [wordpress.com] will be your expression more often than not. Better to just be the "installer monkey" and keep them in a nice locked down limited user account.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you do n't want to deal with the bugs the easiest way is to not allow them to get them in the first place .
being a PC repairman I had this same problem with my dad , who frankly could tear up a Sherman tank with a toothbrush .
Run them as a limited user and set up Comodo EasyVPN ( with admin privileges of course ) so you can install any software they might " need " and you should be good to go .
Now the only time I have to go deal with my dad 's computers is when he picks up a new piece of hardware like a camera .
Here is the link [ pcworld.com ] for the 32bit version of EasyVPN , they also have an x64 if like me you have moved past 32bit .
Your family will love how you can " magically " install stuff without having to be there , and you 'll love not having them tear up the PC when you 're not around .
A win/win in my book .
But in my experience trying to " educate " users is like pissing in the wind , bud .
You see there is this thing called " social engineering " and the dancing bunny problem [ codinghorror.com ] .
You see they WANT to see the bunnies , and no matter how many times you say it 's a trap !
[ wikia.com ] they will completely ignore you and go right ahead and do whatever they need to in order to see the bunnies .
So as long as they are allowed admin rights then this [ wordpress.com ] will be your expression more often than not .
Better to just be the " installer monkey " and keep them in a nice locked down limited user account .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you don't want to deal with the bugs the easiest way is to not allow them to get them in the first place.
being a PC repairman I had this same problem with my dad, who frankly could tear up a Sherman tank with a toothbrush.
Run them as a limited user and set up Comodo EasyVPN (with admin privileges of course) so you can install any software they might "need" and you should be good to go.
Now the only time I have to go deal with my dad's computers is when he picks up a new piece of hardware like a camera.
Here is the link [pcworld.com] for the 32bit version of EasyVPN, they also have an x64 if like me you have moved past 32bit.
Your family will love how you can "magically" install stuff without having to be there, and you'll love not having them tear up the PC when you're not around.
A win/win in my book.
But in my experience trying to "educate" users is like pissing in the wind, bud.
You see there is this thing called "social engineering" and the dancing bunny problem [codinghorror.com].
You see they WANT to see the bunnies, and no matter how many times you say it's a trap!
[wikia.com] they will completely ignore you and go right ahead and do whatever they need to in order to see the bunnies.
So as long as they are allowed admin rights then this [wordpress.com] will be your expression more often than not.
Better to just be the "installer monkey" and keep them in a nice locked down limited user account.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077664</id>
	<title>Re:Correct User Access</title>
	<author>Keebler71</author>
	<datestamp>1258059000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Indeed<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... why anyone uses admin access on their day-to-day accounts is completely beyond me.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Indeed ... why anyone uses admin access on their day-to-day accounts is completely beyond me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Indeed ... why anyone uses admin access on their day-to-day accounts is completely beyond me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075024</id>
	<title>Go Mac or Linux</title>
	<author>tji</author>
	<datestamp>1258050360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A friend of mine installed Linux on his parents computer, and put an end to the corruption/rebuild cycle.    Of course, I think a large part of why this helped was that his parents only understood how to do the basics - read e-mail, browse the web, play music.  They couldn't install new apps.</p><p>For my parents, I didn't think they would put up with "lock down" mode.  So, I set them up with an iMac, and it has been great so far.  I can ssh in to the system and look around, like Linux.  That helps some support issues.   For others, remote desktop works well.   But, I have not had to deal with any malware, system corruption, or complete re-installs since moving to Mac.   (Why that is, I don't really care..  maybe someday we'll have virus issues.  For now, all I care is that it is not a problem)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A friend of mine installed Linux on his parents computer , and put an end to the corruption/rebuild cycle .
Of course , I think a large part of why this helped was that his parents only understood how to do the basics - read e-mail , browse the web , play music .
They could n't install new apps.For my parents , I did n't think they would put up with " lock down " mode .
So , I set them up with an iMac , and it has been great so far .
I can ssh in to the system and look around , like Linux .
That helps some support issues .
For others , remote desktop works well .
But , I have not had to deal with any malware , system corruption , or complete re-installs since moving to Mac .
( Why that is , I do n't really care.. maybe someday we 'll have virus issues .
For now , all I care is that it is not a problem )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A friend of mine installed Linux on his parents computer, and put an end to the corruption/rebuild cycle.
Of course, I think a large part of why this helped was that his parents only understood how to do the basics - read e-mail, browse the web, play music.
They couldn't install new apps.For my parents, I didn't think they would put up with "lock down" mode.
So, I set them up with an iMac, and it has been great so far.
I can ssh in to the system and look around, like Linux.
That helps some support issues.
For others, remote desktop works well.
But, I have not had to deal with any malware, system corruption, or complete re-installs since moving to Mac.
(Why that is, I don't really care..  maybe someday we'll have virus issues.
For now, all I care is that it is not a problem)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30079596</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>tummetott</author>
	<datestamp>1258022700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> Printing (Canon's Linux driver support for their particular printer was really bad)</p> </div><p> Tried Turbo Print?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Printing ( Canon 's Linux driver support for their particular printer was really bad ) Tried Turbo Print ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Printing (Canon's Linux driver support for their particular printer was really bad)  Tried Turbo Print?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075172</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30081168</id>
	<title>Two Things</title>
	<author>phishtrader</author>
	<datestamp>1258028940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>1. Nobody runs as admin.
2. Make an image of the computer at critical stages. Keep all data on a separate partition. When the PC becomes compromised, reimage as necessary. It's a lot faster than fixing it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
Nobody runs as admin .
2. Make an image of the computer at critical stages .
Keep all data on a separate partition .
When the PC becomes compromised , reimage as necessary .
It 's a lot faster than fixing it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.
Nobody runs as admin.
2. Make an image of the computer at critical stages.
Keep all data on a separate partition.
When the PC becomes compromised, reimage as necessary.
It's a lot faster than fixing it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30085768</id>
	<title>Image the drive once reformatted</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258122180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would format it one more time and use a product that images the hard drive.  (a home version should be available for under $75)</p><p>If malware and viruses are a problem, most likely there is someone surfing the darkest parts of the internet.  (maybe the 26 year old)  I would suggest Mozilla Firefox with NoScript for this user.  (or a dedicated PC for this person)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would format it one more time and use a product that images the hard drive .
( a home version should be available for under $ 75 ) If malware and viruses are a problem , most likely there is someone surfing the darkest parts of the internet .
( maybe the 26 year old ) I would suggest Mozilla Firefox with NoScript for this user .
( or a dedicated PC for this person )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would format it one more time and use a product that images the hard drive.
(a home version should be available for under $75)If malware and viruses are a problem, most likely there is someone surfing the darkest parts of the internet.
(maybe the 26 year old)  I would suggest Mozilla Firefox with NoScript for this user.
(or a dedicated PC for this person)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076754</id>
	<title>Get A Mac And Be Done With It</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258055760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I completely agree with the, "Get them a Macintosh" suggestion.</p><p>Look, stupid people (and I only mean "stupid" in terms of technology) shouldn't be allowed to run a Windows PC.  They're going to idiotically install "Virus Protection" software every time they're prompted to do so, and YOU'RE going to be the one spending countless hours trying to clean up their dumbassness.  And it's going to happen over and over and over again.</p><p>Further, people that moronic aren't going to be able to handle Linux installations, either.  Or virtual instances of Windows IN Linux installations.  All of that adds complexity that these sort of people will NEVER be able to handle properly.  And guess what?  YOU'LL be the one getting calls to fix shit, yet again.</p><p>So if you're going to be honest about it, the complexity of Linux means it's out for your average dumbass computer user.  And Windows' troubles with trojans, viruses, and the like means it's out.</p><p>So just get a Mac.  You've basically NO worries with spyware/malware/viruses, it's a relatively easy user interface, and it just runs.  That doesn't mean you'll stop getting calls to fix things, but the frequency of these calls will be *greatly* reduced.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I completely agree with the , " Get them a Macintosh " suggestion.Look , stupid people ( and I only mean " stupid " in terms of technology ) should n't be allowed to run a Windows PC .
They 're going to idiotically install " Virus Protection " software every time they 're prompted to do so , and YOU 'RE going to be the one spending countless hours trying to clean up their dumbassness .
And it 's going to happen over and over and over again.Further , people that moronic are n't going to be able to handle Linux installations , either .
Or virtual instances of Windows IN Linux installations .
All of that adds complexity that these sort of people will NEVER be able to handle properly .
And guess what ?
YOU 'LL be the one getting calls to fix shit , yet again.So if you 're going to be honest about it , the complexity of Linux means it 's out for your average dumbass computer user .
And Windows ' troubles with trojans , viruses , and the like means it 's out.So just get a Mac .
You 've basically NO worries with spyware/malware/viruses , it 's a relatively easy user interface , and it just runs .
That does n't mean you 'll stop getting calls to fix things , but the frequency of these calls will be * greatly * reduced .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I completely agree with the, "Get them a Macintosh" suggestion.Look, stupid people (and I only mean "stupid" in terms of technology) shouldn't be allowed to run a Windows PC.
They're going to idiotically install "Virus Protection" software every time they're prompted to do so, and YOU'RE going to be the one spending countless hours trying to clean up their dumbassness.
And it's going to happen over and over and over again.Further, people that moronic aren't going to be able to handle Linux installations, either.
Or virtual instances of Windows IN Linux installations.
All of that adds complexity that these sort of people will NEVER be able to handle properly.
And guess what?
YOU'LL be the one getting calls to fix shit, yet again.So if you're going to be honest about it, the complexity of Linux means it's out for your average dumbass computer user.
And Windows' troubles with trojans, viruses, and the like means it's out.So just get a Mac.
You've basically NO worries with spyware/malware/viruses, it's a relatively easy user interface, and it just runs.
That doesn't mean you'll stop getting calls to fix things, but the frequency of these calls will be *greatly* reduced.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075452</id>
	<title>Buy your girlfriend a Mac</title>
	<author>ub3r n3u7r4l1st</author>
	<datestamp>1258051560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>and don't forget to put Windows 7 on it, to ensure constant contact with her.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>and do n't forget to put Windows 7 on it , to ensure constant contact with her .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and don't forget to put Windows 7 on it, to ensure constant contact with her.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074696</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077482</id>
	<title>OS X, Linux, OpenDNS, Adblock and Firefox/Safari</title>
	<author>guruevi</author>
	<datestamp>1258058220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ok, so here goes my reduction in tech support calls:</p><p>1) Switched the parents to Ubuntu. They loved it, eventually (once they figured out how to install software from the repositories themselves) the calls stopped. My parents are now living out the country and I hear them only once a month or so and usually it's: the computer still works! When they need tech support I guide them to whatsmyip.net and SSH into the box.</p><p>2) Switched the in-law parents to Mac OS X. Got an old PowerMac G4 from work and I installed all the goodies they need. That box hasn't had a single problem.</p><p>3) Gave my wife a Mac Mini and I have 3 PowerBook G4's (15" and 2 12", very cheap on E-Bay) laying around the house. Haven't had a single issue.</p><p>4) Aunt: Re-installed Windows XP, put an Antivirus, Spybot, Firefox w/ AdBlock etc. on it. Installed OpenDNS updater and put the OpenDNS servers in their routers, then blocked Adware sites, Malware and Porn from their DNS services. This has been holding up for a good month or so now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ok , so here goes my reduction in tech support calls : 1 ) Switched the parents to Ubuntu .
They loved it , eventually ( once they figured out how to install software from the repositories themselves ) the calls stopped .
My parents are now living out the country and I hear them only once a month or so and usually it 's : the computer still works !
When they need tech support I guide them to whatsmyip.net and SSH into the box.2 ) Switched the in-law parents to Mac OS X. Got an old PowerMac G4 from work and I installed all the goodies they need .
That box has n't had a single problem.3 ) Gave my wife a Mac Mini and I have 3 PowerBook G4 's ( 15 " and 2 12 " , very cheap on E-Bay ) laying around the house .
Have n't had a single issue.4 ) Aunt : Re-installed Windows XP , put an Antivirus , Spybot , Firefox w/ AdBlock etc .
on it .
Installed OpenDNS updater and put the OpenDNS servers in their routers , then blocked Adware sites , Malware and Porn from their DNS services .
This has been holding up for a good month or so now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ok, so here goes my reduction in tech support calls:1) Switched the parents to Ubuntu.
They loved it, eventually (once they figured out how to install software from the repositories themselves) the calls stopped.
My parents are now living out the country and I hear them only once a month or so and usually it's: the computer still works!
When they need tech support I guide them to whatsmyip.net and SSH into the box.2) Switched the in-law parents to Mac OS X. Got an old PowerMac G4 from work and I installed all the goodies they need.
That box hasn't had a single problem.3) Gave my wife a Mac Mini and I have 3 PowerBook G4's (15" and 2 12", very cheap on E-Bay) laying around the house.
Haven't had a single issue.4) Aunt: Re-installed Windows XP, put an Antivirus, Spybot, Firefox w/ AdBlock etc.
on it.
Installed OpenDNS updater and put the OpenDNS servers in their routers, then blocked Adware sites, Malware and Porn from their DNS services.
This has been holding up for a good month or so now.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077556</id>
	<title>Make them bring their PC to you..</title>
	<author>composer777</author>
	<datestamp>1258058580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When my dad has PC problems, I tell him to bring it over, and that it will take a few weeks, and that I'll call him when it's done.  I don't work on it unless I am already at my desk doing something else.  That way I can get work done while waiting for his machine to reboot.  The length of time that I take, combined with knowing that he has to make a trip to my house to drop it off and pick it up, keeps him from using me much.  So, next time they have a problem, be sure to leave their machine out of commission for a week or two.  If you finish and they have more problems, tell them to bring it back and that it will be another few weeks.</p><p>Eventually they'll stop using you, as it will no longer be convenient.  I do the same thing with friends, "Go ahead and drop it off, and I'll try to find some time to get it up and running.  It'll probably be a couple of weeks, because I'm pretty busy."  If they say something like, "Can you tell me when you'll have time?"  Answer, "No, I don't have much time, I'm just going to have to fit it in when I get a chance."  If they get pushy, just tell them you don't have any time, or it'll be next month.</p><p>If they try to get answers over the phone, just keep repeating that you don't know until they get the hint.</p><p>I've found that saying no can sometimes really upsets people, but taking a few weeks to fix it doesn't.  And you're guaranteed that after taking a few weeks they won't be bringing it back any time soon.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When my dad has PC problems , I tell him to bring it over , and that it will take a few weeks , and that I 'll call him when it 's done .
I do n't work on it unless I am already at my desk doing something else .
That way I can get work done while waiting for his machine to reboot .
The length of time that I take , combined with knowing that he has to make a trip to my house to drop it off and pick it up , keeps him from using me much .
So , next time they have a problem , be sure to leave their machine out of commission for a week or two .
If you finish and they have more problems , tell them to bring it back and that it will be another few weeks.Eventually they 'll stop using you , as it will no longer be convenient .
I do the same thing with friends , " Go ahead and drop it off , and I 'll try to find some time to get it up and running .
It 'll probably be a couple of weeks , because I 'm pretty busy .
" If they say something like , " Can you tell me when you 'll have time ?
" Answer , " No , I do n't have much time , I 'm just going to have to fit it in when I get a chance .
" If they get pushy , just tell them you do n't have any time , or it 'll be next month.If they try to get answers over the phone , just keep repeating that you do n't know until they get the hint.I 've found that saying no can sometimes really upsets people , but taking a few weeks to fix it does n't .
And you 're guaranteed that after taking a few weeks they wo n't be bringing it back any time soon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When my dad has PC problems, I tell him to bring it over, and that it will take a few weeks, and that I'll call him when it's done.
I don't work on it unless I am already at my desk doing something else.
That way I can get work done while waiting for his machine to reboot.
The length of time that I take, combined with knowing that he has to make a trip to my house to drop it off and pick it up, keeps him from using me much.
So, next time they have a problem, be sure to leave their machine out of commission for a week or two.
If you finish and they have more problems, tell them to bring it back and that it will be another few weeks.Eventually they'll stop using you, as it will no longer be convenient.
I do the same thing with friends, "Go ahead and drop it off, and I'll try to find some time to get it up and running.
It'll probably be a couple of weeks, because I'm pretty busy.
"  If they say something like, "Can you tell me when you'll have time?
"  Answer, "No, I don't have much time, I'm just going to have to fit it in when I get a chance.
"  If they get pushy, just tell them you don't have any time, or it'll be next month.If they try to get answers over the phone, just keep repeating that you don't know until they get the hint.I've found that saying no can sometimes really upsets people, but taking a few weeks to fix it doesn't.
And you're guaranteed that after taking a few weeks they won't be bringing it back any time soon.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076426</id>
	<title>I can't believe it!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258054620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm actually going to forward a Slashdot article to a family member!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm actually going to forward a Slashdot article to a family member !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm actually going to forward a Slashdot article to a family member!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075254</id>
	<title>Ubuntu on my Parents's PC</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258051020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For about 3 years now, my parents has been using Ubuntu on their PC. So far, no "real" problems. Every now and then, my Dad needs something that only works on Windows; but I usually just run it under Windows using Virtualbox on his behalf and it works just fine (he needs something Windows only about once a year so its OK that he waits for me to handle it).</p><p>However, the biggest problem that most people ever realize about Ubuntu is that MOST DOWNLOADED APPLICATIONS WILL NOT WORK!!!! The most common complaint is that I ever get happens when my Dad follows the instructions on some website which tells him to download an<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.exe file and double click on it, but then nothing happens (I don't install WINE). 99\% of the time, it is just some malware that he shouldn't be installing anyway. I keep telling him that anything he downloads will not "run"; but sadly its hard to explain to non-technical people the difference between downloading and opening a document (like a simple PDF file) and running an application. I tell my parents to never download anything that ends with ".exe" but when people pass the age of 50, then tend not to remember anything that specific.</p><p>All my Dad ever does is read e-mail, and check stocks. All my Mom does is play Kpatience. So far its been working out fairly well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For about 3 years now , my parents has been using Ubuntu on their PC .
So far , no " real " problems .
Every now and then , my Dad needs something that only works on Windows ; but I usually just run it under Windows using Virtualbox on his behalf and it works just fine ( he needs something Windows only about once a year so its OK that he waits for me to handle it ) .However , the biggest problem that most people ever realize about Ubuntu is that MOST DOWNLOADED APPLICATIONS WILL NOT WORK ! ! ! !
The most common complaint is that I ever get happens when my Dad follows the instructions on some website which tells him to download an .exe file and double click on it , but then nothing happens ( I do n't install WINE ) .
99 \ % of the time , it is just some malware that he should n't be installing anyway .
I keep telling him that anything he downloads will not " run " ; but sadly its hard to explain to non-technical people the difference between downloading and opening a document ( like a simple PDF file ) and running an application .
I tell my parents to never download anything that ends with " .exe " but when people pass the age of 50 , then tend not to remember anything that specific.All my Dad ever does is read e-mail , and check stocks .
All my Mom does is play Kpatience .
So far its been working out fairly well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For about 3 years now, my parents has been using Ubuntu on their PC.
So far, no "real" problems.
Every now and then, my Dad needs something that only works on Windows; but I usually just run it under Windows using Virtualbox on his behalf and it works just fine (he needs something Windows only about once a year so its OK that he waits for me to handle it).However, the biggest problem that most people ever realize about Ubuntu is that MOST DOWNLOADED APPLICATIONS WILL NOT WORK!!!!
The most common complaint is that I ever get happens when my Dad follows the instructions on some website which tells him to download an .exe file and double click on it, but then nothing happens (I don't install WINE).
99\% of the time, it is just some malware that he shouldn't be installing anyway.
I keep telling him that anything he downloads will not "run"; but sadly its hard to explain to non-technical people the difference between downloading and opening a document (like a simple PDF file) and running an application.
I tell my parents to never download anything that ends with ".exe" but when people pass the age of 50, then tend not to remember anything that specific.All my Dad ever does is read e-mail, and check stocks.
All my Mom does is play Kpatience.
So far its been working out fairly well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30079504</id>
	<title>Solution</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258022460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to have the same problem, but norton ghost saved my life. Once installed and running, do a backup and write in a paper instructions to restore it. Then live your life free.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to have the same problem , but norton ghost saved my life .
Once installed and running , do a backup and write in a paper instructions to restore it .
Then live your life free .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to have the same problem, but norton ghost saved my life.
Once installed and running, do a backup and write in a paper instructions to restore it.
Then live your life free.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30080680</id>
	<title>Re:The last time I had this problem...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258026600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"I can fix your computer, but I can't fix your problem..."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" I can fix your computer , but I ca n't fix your problem... "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"I can fix your computer, but I can't fix your problem..."</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074896</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30082604</id>
	<title>Re:We've had this discussion around the cooler.</title>
	<author>rantingkitten</author>
	<datestamp>1258038900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There are other solutions. <br>
<br>
Solution one: Switch to Linux.  Then when family members whine about their computers, say, "Gee, I just don't know, I don't really know Windows anymore."<br>
<br>
Solution two: Switch them to Linux, Ubuntu in particular.  If they can transition from Windows to OS X they can transition to Ubuntu just as easily if not easier.  And they can do it with the hardware they already have, rather than having to shell out another thousand or more dollars for a Mac.<br>
<br>
I've taken a combination approach.  When my sister's Windows netbook died because Windows refused to boot for some idiotic reason, I could have spent a weekend "fixing" it (e.g., reinstalling Windows, all her applications, all the updates, then making her spend another day setting all her applications back how she wanted them)...
<br> <br>
or I could grab her files, install Ubuntu on the machine, put her files back, and be done in two hours.
<br> <br>
Guess which approach I took?  It has the further advantage that if something goes wrong I can ssh to her machine and fix it quickly, instead of enabling RDP and dealing with incredible GUI latency (she's in Israel, I'm in Atlanta) and inefficient GUI clicky crap that never tells you anything about what's broken.  She's using her softphones and writing papers and chatting online and surfing the web and watching videos just fine with Ubuntu. <br>
<br>
My parents and step-parents haven't made the switch yet.  They're family and I will help them if I can, but the computer is well and truly screwed, I can always fall back on the very truthful "I haven't really used Windows in years, I don't know" routine, and it ceases to be my problem.  <br>
<br>
Either way, as I said, they are family and I will help them if I can.  "Spend a thousand dollars or more on an entirely new computer" is not helpful, in my opinion, so the "get a Mac" solution isn't much of a solution.  They have the hardware already and the OS they need is right in front of them.  I see absolutely no reason to get them to use Macs.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are other solutions .
Solution one : Switch to Linux .
Then when family members whine about their computers , say , " Gee , I just do n't know , I do n't really know Windows anymore .
" Solution two : Switch them to Linux , Ubuntu in particular .
If they can transition from Windows to OS X they can transition to Ubuntu just as easily if not easier .
And they can do it with the hardware they already have , rather than having to shell out another thousand or more dollars for a Mac .
I 've taken a combination approach .
When my sister 's Windows netbook died because Windows refused to boot for some idiotic reason , I could have spent a weekend " fixing " it ( e.g. , reinstalling Windows , all her applications , all the updates , then making her spend another day setting all her applications back how she wanted them ) .. . or I could grab her files , install Ubuntu on the machine , put her files back , and be done in two hours .
Guess which approach I took ?
It has the further advantage that if something goes wrong I can ssh to her machine and fix it quickly , instead of enabling RDP and dealing with incredible GUI latency ( she 's in Israel , I 'm in Atlanta ) and inefficient GUI clicky crap that never tells you anything about what 's broken .
She 's using her softphones and writing papers and chatting online and surfing the web and watching videos just fine with Ubuntu .
My parents and step-parents have n't made the switch yet .
They 're family and I will help them if I can , but the computer is well and truly screwed , I can always fall back on the very truthful " I have n't really used Windows in years , I do n't know " routine , and it ceases to be my problem .
Either way , as I said , they are family and I will help them if I can .
" Spend a thousand dollars or more on an entirely new computer " is not helpful , in my opinion , so the " get a Mac " solution is n't much of a solution .
They have the hardware already and the OS they need is right in front of them .
I see absolutely no reason to get them to use Macs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are other solutions.
Solution one: Switch to Linux.
Then when family members whine about their computers, say, "Gee, I just don't know, I don't really know Windows anymore.
"

Solution two: Switch them to Linux, Ubuntu in particular.
If they can transition from Windows to OS X they can transition to Ubuntu just as easily if not easier.
And they can do it with the hardware they already have, rather than having to shell out another thousand or more dollars for a Mac.
I've taken a combination approach.
When my sister's Windows netbook died because Windows refused to boot for some idiotic reason, I could have spent a weekend "fixing" it (e.g., reinstalling Windows, all her applications, all the updates, then making her spend another day setting all her applications back how she wanted them)...
 
or I could grab her files, install Ubuntu on the machine, put her files back, and be done in two hours.
Guess which approach I took?
It has the further advantage that if something goes wrong I can ssh to her machine and fix it quickly, instead of enabling RDP and dealing with incredible GUI latency (she's in Israel, I'm in Atlanta) and inefficient GUI clicky crap that never tells you anything about what's broken.
She's using her softphones and writing papers and chatting online and surfing the web and watching videos just fine with Ubuntu.
My parents and step-parents haven't made the switch yet.
They're family and I will help them if I can, but the computer is well and truly screwed, I can always fall back on the very truthful "I haven't really used Windows in years, I don't know" routine, and it ceases to be my problem.
Either way, as I said, they are family and I will help them if I can.
"Spend a thousand dollars or more on an entirely new computer" is not helpful, in my opinion, so the "get a Mac" solution isn't much of a solution.
They have the hardware already and the OS they need is right in front of them.
I see absolutely no reason to get them to use Macs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30080302</id>
	<title>free support for linux, pay for windows</title>
	<author>zotz</author>
	<datestamp>1258025100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Tell them that if they will let you install and lock down linux and work remotely, you will do family tech support gratis but that windows tech support is gonna cost. Offer a discount on windows tech support if they agree to sit by your side and not leave while you fix the problems. (And they have to listen to your rants and beefs.)</p><p>Give that a go and see if it helps any.</p><p>all the best,</p><p>drew</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Tell them that if they will let you install and lock down linux and work remotely , you will do family tech support gratis but that windows tech support is gon na cost .
Offer a discount on windows tech support if they agree to sit by your side and not leave while you fix the problems .
( And they have to listen to your rants and beefs .
) Give that a go and see if it helps any.all the best,drew</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tell them that if they will let you install and lock down linux and work remotely, you will do family tech support gratis but that windows tech support is gonna cost.
Offer a discount on windows tech support if they agree to sit by your side and not leave while you fix the problems.
(And they have to listen to your rants and beefs.
)Give that a go and see if it helps any.all the best,drew</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075796</id>
	<title>Re:Correct User Access</title>
	<author>glassdragon</author>
	<datestamp>1258052640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'll have to agree with this as I was in the same situation of trying to fix the parents machine every few months.  The last time I fixed it I locked it down tight.  After a while of using the machine at a strict user level they finally started to listen to the advice I was giving them.  I slowly started giving them access as they proved that they could handle it.  One other thing that I decided to do was to get them to stop using Outlook and switch to Gmail.  That way they weren't downloading all the viruses directly to the machine (their friends' machines were really bad off so I implemented a strict filter to weed out all of the forwards).  I haven't had a problem with their machine since, other than configuring a new all-in-one printer on their print-server/router combo.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll have to agree with this as I was in the same situation of trying to fix the parents machine every few months .
The last time I fixed it I locked it down tight .
After a while of using the machine at a strict user level they finally started to listen to the advice I was giving them .
I slowly started giving them access as they proved that they could handle it .
One other thing that I decided to do was to get them to stop using Outlook and switch to Gmail .
That way they were n't downloading all the viruses directly to the machine ( their friends ' machines were really bad off so I implemented a strict filter to weed out all of the forwards ) .
I have n't had a problem with their machine since , other than configuring a new all-in-one printer on their print-server/router combo .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll have to agree with this as I was in the same situation of trying to fix the parents machine every few months.
The last time I fixed it I locked it down tight.
After a while of using the machine at a strict user level they finally started to listen to the advice I was giving them.
I slowly started giving them access as they proved that they could handle it.
One other thing that I decided to do was to get them to stop using Outlook and switch to Gmail.
That way they weren't downloading all the viruses directly to the machine (their friends' machines were really bad off so I implemented a strict filter to weed out all of the forwards).
I haven't had a problem with their machine since, other than configuring a new all-in-one printer on their print-server/router combo.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076516</id>
	<title>Re:Related question</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258054860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Always rub salt in your wounds.  Or never do that.  I keep forgetting.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Always rub salt in your wounds .
Or never do that .
I keep forgetting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Always rub salt in your wounds.
Or never do that.
I keep forgetting.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074704</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076374</id>
	<title>Re:Give Up</title>
	<author>Runaway1956</author>
	<datestamp>1258054500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've actually convinced a few people to GOOGLE the app, BEFORE installing.  Many people can't be bothered, but there are a few who have been bitten enough times, they are willing to take three minutes to research an app before committing to it.  Some of those fraudulent "spyware remover" apps, for instance, give multiple hits with terms like "spyware", "Trojan", or "How to get rid of" guides, usually among the top ten results.</p><p>It never hurts to look for independent reviews of anything - software included.  Never trust the "reviews" on the download page, and you'll be a whole lot safer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've actually convinced a few people to GOOGLE the app , BEFORE installing .
Many people ca n't be bothered , but there are a few who have been bitten enough times , they are willing to take three minutes to research an app before committing to it .
Some of those fraudulent " spyware remover " apps , for instance , give multiple hits with terms like " spyware " , " Trojan " , or " How to get rid of " guides , usually among the top ten results.It never hurts to look for independent reviews of anything - software included .
Never trust the " reviews " on the download page , and you 'll be a whole lot safer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've actually convinced a few people to GOOGLE the app, BEFORE installing.
Many people can't be bothered, but there are a few who have been bitten enough times, they are willing to take three minutes to research an app before committing to it.
Some of those fraudulent "spyware remover" apps, for instance, give multiple hits with terms like "spyware", "Trojan", or "How to get rid of" guides, usually among the top ten results.It never hurts to look for independent reviews of anything - software included.
Never trust the "reviews" on the download page, and you'll be a whole lot safer.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075378</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075438</id>
	<title>Re:Give Up</title>
	<author>Thansal</author>
	<datestamp>1258051500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If they cannot acknowledge this lack of trustworthiness, there is nothing you can do.</p></div><p>That's the key.<br>People will talk about locking down the computer, or making them use linux or a thin client, or whatever.  But it is too late.  Do you honestly think you can convince your parents to use a different system<nobr> <wbr></nobr>,when it took them that long to learn how to use the damn current one?</p><p>My dad was smart and bought his mother something along the lines of a dumb terminal.  It goes on the web, and checks email, and that is it (It might even be running linux!).  But his case was easy, this was her first computer.</p><p>Really, the answer is: You're boned.  If you have tried a few times to explain out to them why they shouldn't open the email that says "I Love You", your cause is lost.  These aren't clients/employees, you can't tell them "well, sod off" and quit.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If they can not acknowledge this lack of trustworthiness , there is nothing you can do.That 's the key.People will talk about locking down the computer , or making them use linux or a thin client , or whatever .
But it is too late .
Do you honestly think you can convince your parents to use a different system ,when it took them that long to learn how to use the damn current one ? My dad was smart and bought his mother something along the lines of a dumb terminal .
It goes on the web , and checks email , and that is it ( It might even be running linux ! ) .
But his case was easy , this was her first computer.Really , the answer is : You 're boned .
If you have tried a few times to explain out to them why they should n't open the email that says " I Love You " , your cause is lost .
These are n't clients/employees , you ca n't tell them " well , sod off " and quit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they cannot acknowledge this lack of trustworthiness, there is nothing you can do.That's the key.People will talk about locking down the computer, or making them use linux or a thin client, or whatever.
But it is too late.
Do you honestly think you can convince your parents to use a different system ,when it took them that long to learn how to use the damn current one?My dad was smart and bought his mother something along the lines of a dumb terminal.
It goes on the web, and checks email, and that is it (It might even be running linux!).
But his case was easy, this was her first computer.Really, the answer is: You're boned.
If you have tried a few times to explain out to them why they shouldn't open the email that says "I Love You", your cause is lost.
These aren't clients/employees, you can't tell them "well, sod off" and quit.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074962</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075394</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258051380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Isn't that the same as installing Linux tough? You're critique about them not being able to install Win games/software counts just as much. Going Linux would be easier and cheaper.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is n't that the same as installing Linux tough ?
You 're critique about them not being able to install Win games/software counts just as much .
Going Linux would be easier and cheaper .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn't that the same as installing Linux tough?
You're critique about them not being able to install Win games/software counts just as much.
Going Linux would be easier and cheaper.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074886</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077244</id>
	<title>Re:The last time I had this problem...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258057440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This incident sounds like it wasn't family.  If it was, shame on them for suing you for a issue they created.</p><p>If it wasn't family, why didn't you treat him like a customer?  Having someone sign off on a worksheet, and handing them a copy of it helped me when I got sued doing the same thing.  The difference was is that the Judge ruled in my favor because I fulfilled my end of the <em>signed</em> contract.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This incident sounds like it was n't family .
If it was , shame on them for suing you for a issue they created.If it was n't family , why did n't you treat him like a customer ?
Having someone sign off on a worksheet , and handing them a copy of it helped me when I got sued doing the same thing .
The difference was is that the Judge ruled in my favor because I fulfilled my end of the signed contract .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This incident sounds like it wasn't family.
If it was, shame on them for suing you for a issue they created.If it wasn't family, why didn't you treat him like a customer?
Having someone sign off on a worksheet, and handing them a copy of it helped me when I got sued doing the same thing.
The difference was is that the Judge ruled in my favor because I fulfilled my end of the signed contract.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074896</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077680</id>
	<title>Re:Get a Mac</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258059000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> To replace the disk in an iMac you have to remove the glass and the screen. Get dust between those two during the repair, and it's game over. This is the rare case where the warranty is money well spent.</p></div><p>Not true in every case, some of the All-in-One iMacs have pretty easy hard disk remove-replace. I think my neighbor had a 20" one that took me about 10-15 minutes.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>To replace the disk in an iMac you have to remove the glass and the screen .
Get dust between those two during the repair , and it 's game over .
This is the rare case where the warranty is money well spent.Not true in every case , some of the All-in-One iMacs have pretty easy hard disk remove-replace .
I think my neighbor had a 20 " one that took me about 10-15 minutes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> To replace the disk in an iMac you have to remove the glass and the screen.
Get dust between those two during the repair, and it's game over.
This is the rare case where the warranty is money well spent.Not true in every case, some of the All-in-One iMacs have pretty easy hard disk remove-replace.
I think my neighbor had a 20" one that took me about 10-15 minutes.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077152</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076484</id>
	<title>Image the OS partition, an absolute must.</title>
	<author>zQuo</author>
	<datestamp>1258054800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>With family and Windows, the computer *will* collect trojans viruses, etc. like crazy.  I totally agree with the parent, and emphasize that the key is having an image of the partition with OS and apps.  The Data/user folders are on a separate partition/drive.
<br> <br>
Make a bootable auto DVD with an image of the OS+Apps partition in a clean known state with all the apps they want installed with all the settings they want, etc.   Update this image every 3- 6 months or so for them, working from the clean image, and adding updates and new apps they might want.  Booting into the DVD will restore or allow a restore of the clean image.
<br> <br>
If something goes wrong, the family members can just reboot into DVD, get the OS back to the normal known state without losing data.  They will lose any apps and settings they have installed  since the last time you made a known state DVD.  That's ok, any stuff they installed they can always install again (since they did it themselves), and what they recently installed was probably the flaky app/game causing the problem anyways.
<br> <br>
This has saved me lots and lots of time, and I use it for my own Windows computers also.  There is a lot of peace of mind knowing that you can totally hose the system and get it back into a clean state easily.  Family members who are not computer-literate do not apply tech well, not because they are stupid, but because they are afraid of breaking something.  A computer is very complicated, and the difference between a tech-savvy person and a noob is that the tech-savvy person has gradually learnt what is safe to change.  Having a known state to go back to gives family a much better sense of security to learn from.</htmltext>
<tokenext>With family and Windows , the computer * will * collect trojans viruses , etc .
like crazy .
I totally agree with the parent , and emphasize that the key is having an image of the partition with OS and apps .
The Data/user folders are on a separate partition/drive .
Make a bootable auto DVD with an image of the OS + Apps partition in a clean known state with all the apps they want installed with all the settings they want , etc .
Update this image every 3- 6 months or so for them , working from the clean image , and adding updates and new apps they might want .
Booting into the DVD will restore or allow a restore of the clean image .
If something goes wrong , the family members can just reboot into DVD , get the OS back to the normal known state without losing data .
They will lose any apps and settings they have installed since the last time you made a known state DVD .
That 's ok , any stuff they installed they can always install again ( since they did it themselves ) , and what they recently installed was probably the flaky app/game causing the problem anyways .
This has saved me lots and lots of time , and I use it for my own Windows computers also .
There is a lot of peace of mind knowing that you can totally hose the system and get it back into a clean state easily .
Family members who are not computer-literate do not apply tech well , not because they are stupid , but because they are afraid of breaking something .
A computer is very complicated , and the difference between a tech-savvy person and a noob is that the tech-savvy person has gradually learnt what is safe to change .
Having a known state to go back to gives family a much better sense of security to learn from .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With family and Windows, the computer *will* collect trojans viruses, etc.
like crazy.
I totally agree with the parent, and emphasize that the key is having an image of the partition with OS and apps.
The Data/user folders are on a separate partition/drive.
Make a bootable auto DVD with an image of the OS+Apps partition in a clean known state with all the apps they want installed with all the settings they want, etc.
Update this image every 3- 6 months or so for them, working from the clean image, and adding updates and new apps they might want.
Booting into the DVD will restore or allow a restore of the clean image.
If something goes wrong, the family members can just reboot into DVD, get the OS back to the normal known state without losing data.
They will lose any apps and settings they have installed  since the last time you made a known state DVD.
That's ok, any stuff they installed they can always install again (since they did it themselves), and what they recently installed was probably the flaky app/game causing the problem anyways.
This has saved me lots and lots of time, and I use it for my own Windows computers also.
There is a lot of peace of mind knowing that you can totally hose the system and get it back into a clean state easily.
Family members who are not computer-literate do not apply tech well, not because they are stupid, but because they are afraid of breaking something.
A computer is very complicated, and the difference between a tech-savvy person and a noob is that the tech-savvy person has gradually learnt what is safe to change.
Having a known state to go back to gives family a much better sense of security to learn from.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075202</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30079366</id>
	<title>buy a MAC</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258021980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>for your family....  Your time is worth it.</p><p>My kids use my Macbook laptop, and have never managed to get it in any trouble.  But their XP-based desktop machines need to get reinstalled from scratch every 3-6 months or so.  Perhaps a bit less since they've learned to be quite careful, never run IE (always use Firefox), and don't click on random attachments (too often; they're kids).</p><p>Windows is fundamentally a piece of junk -- programs come with insecure scripting languages, and the OS itself is modified by most good installations.  It can never get better without writing off the backwards compatibility that is MS's lifeblood.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>for your family.... Your time is worth it.My kids use my Macbook laptop , and have never managed to get it in any trouble .
But their XP-based desktop machines need to get reinstalled from scratch every 3-6 months or so .
Perhaps a bit less since they 've learned to be quite careful , never run IE ( always use Firefox ) , and do n't click on random attachments ( too often ; they 're kids ) .Windows is fundamentally a piece of junk -- programs come with insecure scripting languages , and the OS itself is modified by most good installations .
It can never get better without writing off the backwards compatibility that is MS 's lifeblood .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>for your family....  Your time is worth it.My kids use my Macbook laptop, and have never managed to get it in any trouble.
But their XP-based desktop machines need to get reinstalled from scratch every 3-6 months or so.
Perhaps a bit less since they've learned to be quite careful, never run IE (always use Firefox), and don't click on random attachments (too often; they're kids).Windows is fundamentally a piece of junk -- programs come with insecure scripting languages, and the OS itself is modified by most good installations.
It can never get better without writing off the backwards compatibility that is MS's lifeblood.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078238</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258017840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I hear you. My dad has this stupid saying he uses whenever I tell him that I've already explained a particular thing to him about his computer at least 5 times. He says "You're digital, I'm analog". It's kind of retarded. He claims to want to know this stuff, and he does learn, albeit very slowly, but most of the stuff just goes in one ear and out the other.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I hear you .
My dad has this stupid saying he uses whenever I tell him that I 've already explained a particular thing to him about his computer at least 5 times .
He says " You 're digital , I 'm analog " .
It 's kind of retarded .
He claims to want to know this stuff , and he does learn , albeit very slowly , but most of the stuff just goes in one ear and out the other .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hear you.
My dad has this stupid saying he uses whenever I tell him that I've already explained a particular thing to him about his computer at least 5 times.
He says "You're digital, I'm analog".
It's kind of retarded.
He claims to want to know this stuff, and he does learn, albeit very slowly, but most of the stuff just goes in one ear and out the other.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074816</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30162632</id>
	<title>Re:Get a Mac</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258622820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>A machine that requires 2 hours for a RAM upgrade is supposed to be an endorsement?!</htmltext>
<tokenext>A machine that requires 2 hours for a RAM upgrade is supposed to be an endorsement ?
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A machine that requires 2 hours for a RAM upgrade is supposed to be an endorsement?
!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074922</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30079012</id>
	<title>AdBlock and Firefox</title>
	<author>pckl300</author>
	<datestamp>1258020720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Get them using Firefox. This is usually as simple as installing Firefox and changing the desktop icon label to say 'Internet Explorer'. They won't notice the difference.

Now, install AdBlock Plus. This will take care of just about every pop up that causes viruses.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Get them using Firefox .
This is usually as simple as installing Firefox and changing the desktop icon label to say 'Internet Explorer' .
They wo n't notice the difference .
Now , install AdBlock Plus .
This will take care of just about every pop up that causes viruses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get them using Firefox.
This is usually as simple as installing Firefox and changing the desktop icon label to say 'Internet Explorer'.
They won't notice the difference.
Now, install AdBlock Plus.
This will take care of just about every pop up that causes viruses.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30082238</id>
	<title>What?</title>
	<author>darkpixel2k</author>
	<datestamp>1258035480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>computer viruses, malware, adware</p></div><p>
Viruses?  Malware?  Adware?<br>
<br>
What are those?<br>
<br>
Can you explain them to me?  Pretend you are explaining them to someone who has no clue what they are.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
(I run linux)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>computer viruses , malware , adware Viruses ?
Malware ? Adware ?
What are those ?
Can you explain them to me ?
Pretend you are explaining them to someone who has no clue what they are .
( I run linux )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>computer viruses, malware, adware
Viruses?
Malware?  Adware?
What are those?
Can you explain them to me?
Pretend you are explaining them to someone who has no clue what they are.
(I run linux)
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075526</id>
	<title>Buy a Mac and Time Capsule</title>
	<author>SuperKendall</author>
	<datestamp>1258051740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How much is your time worth, in any unit you care to name?  If the answer is any amount greater than zero, then convincing friends and family to buy a Mac helps so, so much...   I have several people I used to help all the time, and now I get a question maybe once a year.  Not to mention that any frustration you are saving yourself, you are triply saving your friends and family who try to figure things out before they call you.</p><p>But I would add in addition to this advice, to buy a TimeCapsule for them as well.  Yes it's a little more expensive than an access point  and external disk combined.  But refer back to my first point, the bit about time and so on?   If they have a TimeCapsule set up they WILL USE IT, because it is on ALL THE TIME.  If you try to make anyone connect an external drive they WILL NOT DO IT, and that means WHEN a drive failure occurs you will have to come help try and recover data.  If the have a Time Capsule they can bring the system and TC into an Apple store and get the data back even if they can't figure out how themselves (which they probably will figure out).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How much is your time worth , in any unit you care to name ?
If the answer is any amount greater than zero , then convincing friends and family to buy a Mac helps so , so much... I have several people I used to help all the time , and now I get a question maybe once a year .
Not to mention that any frustration you are saving yourself , you are triply saving your friends and family who try to figure things out before they call you.But I would add in addition to this advice , to buy a TimeCapsule for them as well .
Yes it 's a little more expensive than an access point and external disk combined .
But refer back to my first point , the bit about time and so on ?
If they have a TimeCapsule set up they WILL USE IT , because it is on ALL THE TIME .
If you try to make anyone connect an external drive they WILL NOT DO IT , and that means WHEN a drive failure occurs you will have to come help try and recover data .
If the have a Time Capsule they can bring the system and TC into an Apple store and get the data back even if they ca n't figure out how themselves ( which they probably will figure out ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How much is your time worth, in any unit you care to name?
If the answer is any amount greater than zero, then convincing friends and family to buy a Mac helps so, so much...   I have several people I used to help all the time, and now I get a question maybe once a year.
Not to mention that any frustration you are saving yourself, you are triply saving your friends and family who try to figure things out before they call you.But I would add in addition to this advice, to buy a TimeCapsule for them as well.
Yes it's a little more expensive than an access point  and external disk combined.
But refer back to my first point, the bit about time and so on?
If they have a TimeCapsule set up they WILL USE IT, because it is on ALL THE TIME.
If you try to make anyone connect an external drive they WILL NOT DO IT, and that means WHEN a drive failure occurs you will have to come help try and recover data.
If the have a Time Capsule they can bring the system and TC into an Apple store and get the data back even if they can't figure out how themselves (which they probably will figure out).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074696</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075302</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258051140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree. My long-time girlfriend is a veterinarian and always makes fun of my career choice when I am "on-call" or have an "emergency."</p><p>Obviously her on-calls, and emergencies deal with life-or-death situation (of animals...) and mine deals with thousands, and possible hundreds of thousands ($$) in lost productivity, revenue, etc.</p><p>Whenever I even mention the $$ argument as a way to back up my claim as my job is important - I get the "saving lives" is more important. One of our good friends is a doctor and uses the "save lives vs. save useless lives" argument with her...funny actually. The only reason why she did vet school instead of med school (truth be known vet school is more difficult to get into) is because she likes animals better than people.</p><p>Anyway, back to the story, whenever her computer screws up, I make it a point to note that I'm saving its life. It gets her all riled up, stating she'll just buy a new computer - to which I reply I'll simply buy a new dog when mine gets hurt - or even a new girlfriend when mine is broken.</p><p>It's this back and forth that makes me wonder if we'll ever get or stay married.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree .
My long-time girlfriend is a veterinarian and always makes fun of my career choice when I am " on-call " or have an " emergency .
" Obviously her on-calls , and emergencies deal with life-or-death situation ( of animals... ) and mine deals with thousands , and possible hundreds of thousands ( $ $ ) in lost productivity , revenue , etc.Whenever I even mention the $ $ argument as a way to back up my claim as my job is important - I get the " saving lives " is more important .
One of our good friends is a doctor and uses the " save lives vs. save useless lives " argument with her...funny actually .
The only reason why she did vet school instead of med school ( truth be known vet school is more difficult to get into ) is because she likes animals better than people.Anyway , back to the story , whenever her computer screws up , I make it a point to note that I 'm saving its life .
It gets her all riled up , stating she 'll just buy a new computer - to which I reply I 'll simply buy a new dog when mine gets hurt - or even a new girlfriend when mine is broken.It 's this back and forth that makes me wonder if we 'll ever get or stay married .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree.
My long-time girlfriend is a veterinarian and always makes fun of my career choice when I am "on-call" or have an "emergency.
"Obviously her on-calls, and emergencies deal with life-or-death situation (of animals...) and mine deals with thousands, and possible hundreds of thousands ($$) in lost productivity, revenue, etc.Whenever I even mention the $$ argument as a way to back up my claim as my job is important - I get the "saving lives" is more important.
One of our good friends is a doctor and uses the "save lives vs. save useless lives" argument with her...funny actually.
The only reason why she did vet school instead of med school (truth be known vet school is more difficult to get into) is because she likes animals better than people.Anyway, back to the story, whenever her computer screws up, I make it a point to note that I'm saving its life.
It gets her all riled up, stating she'll just buy a new computer - to which I reply I'll simply buy a new dog when mine gets hurt - or even a new girlfriend when mine is broken.It's this back and forth that makes me wonder if we'll ever get or stay married.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074816</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076300</id>
	<title>A few possible tactics...</title>
	<author>Loosifur</author>
	<datestamp>1258054260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1. Easiest and most effective: stop fixing their problems. Sometimes, the best way to learn how to use something is to figure it out on your own. Also, it raises the stakes when they're faced with the option of clicking on the flashing "Click here for a free thingummajig!" button.</p><p>2. Set up accounts and limit permissions, just like a business environment. If they don't like it, explain that it's a security issue, and if that doesn't work, go to option 1. above.</p><p>3. Encourage them to only use their own computers. It sounds like there are several users and several computers in this environment, right? Well, enforce a one-computer-per-user rule and forbid sharing. Again, if it doesn't go over well, see 1.</p><p>I do NOT recommend as others have switching platforms. As it stands, you're the resident tech guy when there's a problem, right? Well, if you turn them on to Linux or Mac, now you're the resident tech guy who knows EVERYTHING about Linux/Mac, and who now has the training responsibility. You won't get calls about virii anymore; you'll get calls like, "How do I check my email," or, "I tried to install something and now there's only a command prompt!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
Easiest and most effective : stop fixing their problems .
Sometimes , the best way to learn how to use something is to figure it out on your own .
Also , it raises the stakes when they 're faced with the option of clicking on the flashing " Click here for a free thingummajig !
" button.2 .
Set up accounts and limit permissions , just like a business environment .
If they do n't like it , explain that it 's a security issue , and if that does n't work , go to option 1. above.3. Encourage them to only use their own computers .
It sounds like there are several users and several computers in this environment , right ?
Well , enforce a one-computer-per-user rule and forbid sharing .
Again , if it does n't go over well , see 1.I do NOT recommend as others have switching platforms .
As it stands , you 're the resident tech guy when there 's a problem , right ?
Well , if you turn them on to Linux or Mac , now you 're the resident tech guy who knows EVERYTHING about Linux/Mac , and who now has the training responsibility .
You wo n't get calls about virii anymore ; you 'll get calls like , " How do I check my email , " or , " I tried to install something and now there 's only a command prompt !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.
Easiest and most effective: stop fixing their problems.
Sometimes, the best way to learn how to use something is to figure it out on your own.
Also, it raises the stakes when they're faced with the option of clicking on the flashing "Click here for a free thingummajig!
" button.2.
Set up accounts and limit permissions, just like a business environment.
If they don't like it, explain that it's a security issue, and if that doesn't work, go to option 1. above.3. Encourage them to only use their own computers.
It sounds like there are several users and several computers in this environment, right?
Well, enforce a one-computer-per-user rule and forbid sharing.
Again, if it doesn't go over well, see 1.I do NOT recommend as others have switching platforms.
As it stands, you're the resident tech guy when there's a problem, right?
Well, if you turn them on to Linux or Mac, now you're the resident tech guy who knows EVERYTHING about Linux/Mac, and who now has the training responsibility.
You won't get calls about virii anymore; you'll get calls like, "How do I check my email," or, "I tried to install something and now there's only a command prompt!
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075618</id>
	<title>the only solution...</title>
	<author>Tikkun</author>
	<datestamp>1258052040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>... is to not give end users admin rights on their computers, automate patching at regular intervals and hope that they don't put their bank credentials into a phishing site.<br> <br>

If you're dealing with end users that have control over their computers, they will destroy them on a regular basis. There is nothing you can do to fix human nature.</htmltext>
<tokenext>... is to not give end users admin rights on their computers , automate patching at regular intervals and hope that they do n't put their bank credentials into a phishing site .
If you 're dealing with end users that have control over their computers , they will destroy them on a regular basis .
There is nothing you can do to fix human nature .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... is to not give end users admin rights on their computers, automate patching at regular intervals and hope that they don't put their bank credentials into a phishing site.
If you're dealing with end users that have control over their computers, they will destroy them on a regular basis.
There is nothing you can do to fix human nature.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077548</id>
	<title>For intelligent people I'm seeing stupid answers</title>
	<author>syousef</author>
	<datestamp>1258058520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>People here are recommending one of the following FUCKING STUPID approaches:</p><p>1) Force your family to switch to Mac or Linux</p><p>Just awful. All of a sudden they can't run the software they want to and that they're use to. This is a lot like a doctor who when asked to help a patient with a cold pulls out a gun and shoots the patient. No more life = no more cold. Problem solved. Oh and if you do it with a Mac, the gun has a fancy handle and costs double what a normal gun does. Your family will resent you (One of the stories was about being taken to court over it). This is not a clever solution</p><p>2) Refuse to do support</p><p>Friends and family resent you because they've done things for you but now that it's your turn to do something for them you've decided you're above it. What's more they KNOW you can help. For some social misfit geeks their willingness to help is one of the few things that endears them to family and lets them see that you're intelligent despite having the social skills of a retarded sloth.</p><p>3) Make some dumb arse attempt to lock down their account and walk away</p><p>Just fantastic. If they did this to you at work you'd quit because you know it doesn't work well on Windows but you're happy to inflict this kind of crap on your relatives and walk away secure in the knowledge that they won't even know the problems they see are caused by a lack of admin privs.</p><p>None of the above answers make sense. So what does?</p><p>1) Offer to fix the computer but don't drop everything and go running to fix the damn thing every time they break it. Instead arrange a time 2 weeks down the road to fix it (You can make an exception if something is genuinely urgent so long as it's not genuinely urgent every time you're asked to fix it).</p><p>2) Offer to help them avoid the 2 week delay to have their computer fixed by showing them how to avoid viruses etc. All of a sudden there's a very good reason to learn how.</p><p>3) If the above doesn't work gradually increase the amount of time to 3 or 4 weeks for each time you have to clean their computer. Don't go overboard but at the same time let them know that you would like to help but that your time is valuable and that you can't just drop things and fix the machine.</p><p>4) If they say they can't learn be positive and encouraging. Tell them if they learnt to do the things they want to on the computer they can also learn how to do the things they have to to keep it running. Be patient and show them how. Video tutorials aren't appropriate. Schedule a time as described above and sit down and teach them. It's important to let them know that using a computer is all about continuous learning. Bring about the change positively instead of doing it like a social retard.</p><p>5) Don't just fix the computer and walk away. Take the opportunity to spend some time with your relative and hang out. Do something with them after the computer is fixed or arrange something social for another day so that it's not JUST about you fixing the computer.</p><p>6) The only technical bit of advice. Encourage them to keep their data somewhere separate to their OS and teach them to back their data up. Hopefully this will make blowing a machine away and starting from scratch less of a problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People here are recommending one of the following FUCKING STUPID approaches : 1 ) Force your family to switch to Mac or LinuxJust awful .
All of a sudden they ca n't run the software they want to and that they 're use to .
This is a lot like a doctor who when asked to help a patient with a cold pulls out a gun and shoots the patient .
No more life = no more cold .
Problem solved .
Oh and if you do it with a Mac , the gun has a fancy handle and costs double what a normal gun does .
Your family will resent you ( One of the stories was about being taken to court over it ) .
This is not a clever solution2 ) Refuse to do supportFriends and family resent you because they 've done things for you but now that it 's your turn to do something for them you 've decided you 're above it .
What 's more they KNOW you can help .
For some social misfit geeks their willingness to help is one of the few things that endears them to family and lets them see that you 're intelligent despite having the social skills of a retarded sloth.3 ) Make some dumb arse attempt to lock down their account and walk awayJust fantastic .
If they did this to you at work you 'd quit because you know it does n't work well on Windows but you 're happy to inflict this kind of crap on your relatives and walk away secure in the knowledge that they wo n't even know the problems they see are caused by a lack of admin privs.None of the above answers make sense .
So what does ? 1 ) Offer to fix the computer but do n't drop everything and go running to fix the damn thing every time they break it .
Instead arrange a time 2 weeks down the road to fix it ( You can make an exception if something is genuinely urgent so long as it 's not genuinely urgent every time you 're asked to fix it ) .2 ) Offer to help them avoid the 2 week delay to have their computer fixed by showing them how to avoid viruses etc .
All of a sudden there 's a very good reason to learn how.3 ) If the above does n't work gradually increase the amount of time to 3 or 4 weeks for each time you have to clean their computer .
Do n't go overboard but at the same time let them know that you would like to help but that your time is valuable and that you ca n't just drop things and fix the machine.4 ) If they say they ca n't learn be positive and encouraging .
Tell them if they learnt to do the things they want to on the computer they can also learn how to do the things they have to to keep it running .
Be patient and show them how .
Video tutorials are n't appropriate .
Schedule a time as described above and sit down and teach them .
It 's important to let them know that using a computer is all about continuous learning .
Bring about the change positively instead of doing it like a social retard.5 ) Do n't just fix the computer and walk away .
Take the opportunity to spend some time with your relative and hang out .
Do something with them after the computer is fixed or arrange something social for another day so that it 's not JUST about you fixing the computer.6 ) The only technical bit of advice .
Encourage them to keep their data somewhere separate to their OS and teach them to back their data up .
Hopefully this will make blowing a machine away and starting from scratch less of a problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People here are recommending one of the following FUCKING STUPID approaches:1) Force your family to switch to Mac or LinuxJust awful.
All of a sudden they can't run the software they want to and that they're use to.
This is a lot like a doctor who when asked to help a patient with a cold pulls out a gun and shoots the patient.
No more life = no more cold.
Problem solved.
Oh and if you do it with a Mac, the gun has a fancy handle and costs double what a normal gun does.
Your family will resent you (One of the stories was about being taken to court over it).
This is not a clever solution2) Refuse to do supportFriends and family resent you because they've done things for you but now that it's your turn to do something for them you've decided you're above it.
What's more they KNOW you can help.
For some social misfit geeks their willingness to help is one of the few things that endears them to family and lets them see that you're intelligent despite having the social skills of a retarded sloth.3) Make some dumb arse attempt to lock down their account and walk awayJust fantastic.
If they did this to you at work you'd quit because you know it doesn't work well on Windows but you're happy to inflict this kind of crap on your relatives and walk away secure in the knowledge that they won't even know the problems they see are caused by a lack of admin privs.None of the above answers make sense.
So what does?1) Offer to fix the computer but don't drop everything and go running to fix the damn thing every time they break it.
Instead arrange a time 2 weeks down the road to fix it (You can make an exception if something is genuinely urgent so long as it's not genuinely urgent every time you're asked to fix it).2) Offer to help them avoid the 2 week delay to have their computer fixed by showing them how to avoid viruses etc.
All of a sudden there's a very good reason to learn how.3) If the above doesn't work gradually increase the amount of time to 3 or 4 weeks for each time you have to clean their computer.
Don't go overboard but at the same time let them know that you would like to help but that your time is valuable and that you can't just drop things and fix the machine.4) If they say they can't learn be positive and encouraging.
Tell them if they learnt to do the things they want to on the computer they can also learn how to do the things they have to to keep it running.
Be patient and show them how.
Video tutorials aren't appropriate.
Schedule a time as described above and sit down and teach them.
It's important to let them know that using a computer is all about continuous learning.
Bring about the change positively instead of doing it like a social retard.5) Don't just fix the computer and walk away.
Take the opportunity to spend some time with your relative and hang out.
Do something with them after the computer is fixed or arrange something social for another day so that it's not JUST about you fixing the computer.6) The only technical bit of advice.
Encourage them to keep their data somewhere separate to their OS and teach them to back their data up.
Hopefully this will make blowing a machine away and starting from scratch less of a problem.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075104</id>
	<title>Don't even try</title>
	<author>aerogems</author>
	<datestamp>1258050600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know it may seem mean, and all that, but I tell friends and family that if they want my help fixing their computer, they have to abide by my "rules". Which is that I will lock the system down, and remove a lot of the common ways in which viruses and malware ends up on someone's system. For example: If they want Internet Explorer instead of Firefox, then they're on their own to fix anything that goes wrong. Usually after they see the rates places like Geek Squad charge for what is ultimately a far less comprehensive service, they come around pretty quickly.</p><p>I've found you need to be rather Machiavellian about it. YOU are the one with the expertise needed to fix this problem, so YOU hold the power. YOU set the conditions by which you will share your expertise with them, and they either accept your terms or they seek out some kind of alternate solution on their own. And it may seem disrespectful to your parents, but it's disrespectful to you if you fix things, try and explain how to avoid it in the future, and they turn around completely disregard everything you say. All you're doing now by helping them, is reinforcing a behavioral pattern of learned helplessness. What you're doing is teaching them that they can do whatever they want, and then you'll come along and fix it when they screw things up. You need to disabuse them of this notion post-haste. Either they put up with your restrictions, or they start chipping in some money for your time and expertise.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know it may seem mean , and all that , but I tell friends and family that if they want my help fixing their computer , they have to abide by my " rules " .
Which is that I will lock the system down , and remove a lot of the common ways in which viruses and malware ends up on someone 's system .
For example : If they want Internet Explorer instead of Firefox , then they 're on their own to fix anything that goes wrong .
Usually after they see the rates places like Geek Squad charge for what is ultimately a far less comprehensive service , they come around pretty quickly.I 've found you need to be rather Machiavellian about it .
YOU are the one with the expertise needed to fix this problem , so YOU hold the power .
YOU set the conditions by which you will share your expertise with them , and they either accept your terms or they seek out some kind of alternate solution on their own .
And it may seem disrespectful to your parents , but it 's disrespectful to you if you fix things , try and explain how to avoid it in the future , and they turn around completely disregard everything you say .
All you 're doing now by helping them , is reinforcing a behavioral pattern of learned helplessness .
What you 're doing is teaching them that they can do whatever they want , and then you 'll come along and fix it when they screw things up .
You need to disabuse them of this notion post-haste .
Either they put up with your restrictions , or they start chipping in some money for your time and expertise .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know it may seem mean, and all that, but I tell friends and family that if they want my help fixing their computer, they have to abide by my "rules".
Which is that I will lock the system down, and remove a lot of the common ways in which viruses and malware ends up on someone's system.
For example: If they want Internet Explorer instead of Firefox, then they're on their own to fix anything that goes wrong.
Usually after they see the rates places like Geek Squad charge for what is ultimately a far less comprehensive service, they come around pretty quickly.I've found you need to be rather Machiavellian about it.
YOU are the one with the expertise needed to fix this problem, so YOU hold the power.
YOU set the conditions by which you will share your expertise with them, and they either accept your terms or they seek out some kind of alternate solution on their own.
And it may seem disrespectful to your parents, but it's disrespectful to you if you fix things, try and explain how to avoid it in the future, and they turn around completely disregard everything you say.
All you're doing now by helping them, is reinforcing a behavioral pattern of learned helplessness.
What you're doing is teaching them that they can do whatever they want, and then you'll come along and fix it when they screw things up.
You need to disabuse them of this notion post-haste.
Either they put up with your restrictions, or they start chipping in some money for your time and expertise.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076442</id>
	<title>Stop "helping"!</title>
	<author>BLKMGK</author>
	<datestamp>1258054680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For 8 years they have relied upon you to solve their issues and apparently not learned anything! they are "non-technical" but have been using computers this entire time? I'm sorry but after that many years of using the damned thing if they haven't learned anything it's because you're always there to help them - stop helping. The excuse that they're non-technical doesn't fly after that length of time IMO. If they are so disinterested in the device but rely on it so heavily then there's a serious disconnect.</p><p>They aren't learning anything because they don't have to. If you always had someone to wipe your ass you probably would never have learned but somewhere along the way your parents decided it was time you did it yourself and TaDah YOU learned. Think of it as AA for computers - they have to hit rock bottom before they will get off their butts and bother to learn anything. A once in awhile help session is one thing but not to the extent that has been laid out here. Do they even bother to sit and watch while you fix their stuff? Or do they get to go off and do other things all the while whining that they want their computer fixed? Make them feel pain, make them sit and watch silently if you work on the computer for them and answer questions if you want. You're being taken advantage of and it;s not helping anyone except maybe you a little as you find out ever more innovative ways to solve their issues.</p><p>Here's another thought - stop trying to fix their computer. Simply reformat the thing, patch it, and walk away. Let them have to go through the pain of fixing it up the way they like it - maybe with some ramifications they will begin to get a clue and understand the cause\effect that's going on here....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For 8 years they have relied upon you to solve their issues and apparently not learned anything !
they are " non-technical " but have been using computers this entire time ?
I 'm sorry but after that many years of using the damned thing if they have n't learned anything it 's because you 're always there to help them - stop helping .
The excuse that they 're non-technical does n't fly after that length of time IMO .
If they are so disinterested in the device but rely on it so heavily then there 's a serious disconnect.They are n't learning anything because they do n't have to .
If you always had someone to wipe your ass you probably would never have learned but somewhere along the way your parents decided it was time you did it yourself and TaDah YOU learned .
Think of it as AA for computers - they have to hit rock bottom before they will get off their butts and bother to learn anything .
A once in awhile help session is one thing but not to the extent that has been laid out here .
Do they even bother to sit and watch while you fix their stuff ?
Or do they get to go off and do other things all the while whining that they want their computer fixed ?
Make them feel pain , make them sit and watch silently if you work on the computer for them and answer questions if you want .
You 're being taken advantage of and it ; s not helping anyone except maybe you a little as you find out ever more innovative ways to solve their issues.Here 's another thought - stop trying to fix their computer .
Simply reformat the thing , patch it , and walk away .
Let them have to go through the pain of fixing it up the way they like it - maybe with some ramifications they will begin to get a clue and understand the cause \ effect that 's going on here... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For 8 years they have relied upon you to solve their issues and apparently not learned anything!
they are "non-technical" but have been using computers this entire time?
I'm sorry but after that many years of using the damned thing if they haven't learned anything it's because you're always there to help them - stop helping.
The excuse that they're non-technical doesn't fly after that length of time IMO.
If they are so disinterested in the device but rely on it so heavily then there's a serious disconnect.They aren't learning anything because they don't have to.
If you always had someone to wipe your ass you probably would never have learned but somewhere along the way your parents decided it was time you did it yourself and TaDah YOU learned.
Think of it as AA for computers - they have to hit rock bottom before they will get off their butts and bother to learn anything.
A once in awhile help session is one thing but not to the extent that has been laid out here.
Do they even bother to sit and watch while you fix their stuff?
Or do they get to go off and do other things all the while whining that they want their computer fixed?
Make them feel pain, make them sit and watch silently if you work on the computer for them and answer questions if you want.
You're being taken advantage of and it;s not helping anyone except maybe you a little as you find out ever more innovative ways to solve their issues.Here's another thought - stop trying to fix their computer.
Simply reformat the thing, patch it, and walk away.
Let them have to go through the pain of fixing it up the way they like it - maybe with some ramifications they will begin to get a clue and understand the cause\effect that's going on here....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074968</id>
	<title>Is there a kind and gentle way to explain PEBKAC?</title>
	<author>The Altruist</author>
	<datestamp>1258050240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Tell your family that when someone offers you something for free on the internet, they should assume it's a scam until after appropriate research has been done.

I believe there was an article just recently on the unpleasant things done by the creator of Mafia Wars.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Tell your family that when someone offers you something for free on the internet , they should assume it 's a scam until after appropriate research has been done .
I believe there was an article just recently on the unpleasant things done by the creator of Mafia Wars .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tell your family that when someone offers you something for free on the internet, they should assume it's a scam until after appropriate research has been done.
I believe there was an article just recently on the unpleasant things done by the creator of Mafia Wars.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30083394</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>utoddl</author>
	<datestamp>1258045680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's this back and forth that makes me wonder if we'll ever get or stay married.</p></div><p>I bet you will. You'll probably even like each other's spouses.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's this back and forth that makes me wonder if we 'll ever get or stay married.I bet you will .
You 'll probably even like each other 's spouses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's this back and forth that makes me wonder if we'll ever get or stay married.I bet you will.
You'll probably even like each other's spouses.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30084274</id>
	<title>.-[insert easy way for tech support here]-.</title>
	<author>chef\_raekwon</author>
	<datestamp>1258143900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>lots and lots of suggestions -- and i may have missed it above - but just cut an image of the system, in a ready to use state.  use that ghost thing, bam bam, youre done.  next time moron get system all bitched, wipe it clean in about 10 minutes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>lots and lots of suggestions -- and i may have missed it above - but just cut an image of the system , in a ready to use state .
use that ghost thing , bam bam , youre done .
next time moron get system all bitched , wipe it clean in about 10 minutes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>lots and lots of suggestions -- and i may have missed it above - but just cut an image of the system, in a ready to use state.
use that ghost thing, bam bam, youre done.
next time moron get system all bitched, wipe it clean in about 10 minutes.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076390</id>
	<title>I have one simple rule for these situation</title>
	<author>Lazypete</author>
	<datestamp>1258054500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have an agreement with my mother which is 55 yo and has no computer technical skill. "You want me to take care of your computer, fine, you are not admin, you CAN'T INSTALL software." I do the software install. Since most of the malware need to copy itself onto some directory where she dont have write acces, it fixed many of the problem. Also none of her friends can come and do a "look what i found on this weird webpage is cute and funny but i need to install it first" Since she had her last computer 3 years ago I never had to re-install or clean malware out of it. Im just thinking now of doing a re-install as the Windows is aging and well windows age bad lol. Its not 100\% proof but it did a good job for me.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have an agreement with my mother which is 55 yo and has no computer technical skill .
" You want me to take care of your computer , fine , you are not admin , you CA N'T INSTALL software .
" I do the software install .
Since most of the malware need to copy itself onto some directory where she dont have write acces , it fixed many of the problem .
Also none of her friends can come and do a " look what i found on this weird webpage is cute and funny but i need to install it first " Since she had her last computer 3 years ago I never had to re-install or clean malware out of it .
Im just thinking now of doing a re-install as the Windows is aging and well windows age bad lol .
Its not 100 \ % proof but it did a good job for me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have an agreement with my mother which is 55 yo and has no computer technical skill.
"You want me to take care of your computer, fine, you are not admin, you CAN'T INSTALL software.
" I do the software install.
Since most of the malware need to copy itself onto some directory where she dont have write acces, it fixed many of the problem.
Also none of her friends can come and do a "look what i found on this weird webpage is cute and funny but i need to install it first" Since she had her last computer 3 years ago I never had to re-install or clean malware out of it.
Im just thinking now of doing a re-install as the Windows is aging and well windows age bad lol.
Its not 100\% proof but it did a good job for me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076950</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258056480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Whenever I even mention the $$ argument as a way to back up my claim as my job is important - I get the "saving lives" is more important.</p><p>Tell her your clients won't be able to bring their pets to her if they are BROKE.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Whenever I even mention the $ $ argument as a way to back up my claim as my job is important - I get the " saving lives " is more important.Tell her your clients wo n't be able to bring their pets to her if they are BROKE .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Whenever I even mention the $$ argument as a way to back up my claim as my job is important - I get the "saving lives" is more important.Tell her your clients won't be able to bring their pets to her if they are BROKE.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30088494</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>Grizzled Old Scout</author>
	<datestamp>1258136340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So your long-time girlfriend makes fun of your career choice?  And your good friend wants in on this fun?  Your life, but I'd think I'd want these people out of mine as quickly as I could head out the door.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So your long-time girlfriend makes fun of your career choice ?
And your good friend wants in on this fun ?
Your life , but I 'd think I 'd want these people out of mine as quickly as I could head out the door .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So your long-time girlfriend makes fun of your career choice?
And your good friend wants in on this fun?
Your life, but I'd think I'd want these people out of mine as quickly as I could head out the door.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078530</id>
	<title>Switch to Linux!</title>
	<author>darth\_borehd</author>
	<datestamp>1258018980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I had the exact same problem except I was the tech support for my whole extended family.  Aunts, Uncles, cousins, etc.  I was constantly getting called to take of virus/spyware and windows driver issues.  I reinstalled many of them to Ubuntu and Super OS and I rarely get called for tech support from them now.  Everything just works and they are very happy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I had the exact same problem except I was the tech support for my whole extended family .
Aunts , Uncles , cousins , etc .
I was constantly getting called to take of virus/spyware and windows driver issues .
I reinstalled many of them to Ubuntu and Super OS and I rarely get called for tech support from them now .
Everything just works and they are very happy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had the exact same problem except I was the tech support for my whole extended family.
Aunts, Uncles, cousins, etc.
I was constantly getting called to take of virus/spyware and windows driver issues.
I reinstalled many of them to Ubuntu and Super OS and I rarely get called for tech support from them now.
Everything just works and they are very happy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30081902</id>
	<title>Seriously?</title>
	<author>uvajed\_ekil</author>
	<datestamp>1258033200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Every six months you have to reformat all of your family's computers because they are loaded with viruses and malware? Seriously? That much, that often? What they hell are they doing? And do why haven't you set up any AV/anti-malware software? Are MS updates set to install automatically? They're obviously doing something very wrong, and so are you, if the situation is that consistently bad. Yes, even in the Windoze world. My own family is rather non-tech savy, though there is a lot of internet usage in their homes. Give them some simple explanations about email attachments, make sure auto-updates are on, use a decent AV package, and maybe set up Adaware or Spybot Search and Destroy. Firewalls are something to consider. If you are talking about multiple computers in one household, and you have any old (really old even) hardware to spare, a real, dedicated firewall might be in order - easy to set up and forget about, for a little extra piece of mind.
<br> <br>
The other answer: switch them over to linux. Mint is very easy to use and comes with most of what they're likely to want. If there's a gamer in the house, have them dual-boot if they absolutely need to boot Windows. Tell them linux is superior for most things will protect them from identity theft, and their Windows setup is specially optimized for games, or whatever you think will convince them. And when it is time for new hardware, surely they'll seek your advice then, right? Maybe consider Macs.<br> <br>
I hate MS, but keeping those systems running reasonably smoothly should not be that difficult. Hell, I can do it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Every six months you have to reformat all of your family 's computers because they are loaded with viruses and malware ?
Seriously ? That much , that often ?
What they hell are they doing ?
And do why have n't you set up any AV/anti-malware software ?
Are MS updates set to install automatically ?
They 're obviously doing something very wrong , and so are you , if the situation is that consistently bad .
Yes , even in the Windoze world .
My own family is rather non-tech savy , though there is a lot of internet usage in their homes .
Give them some simple explanations about email attachments , make sure auto-updates are on , use a decent AV package , and maybe set up Adaware or Spybot Search and Destroy .
Firewalls are something to consider .
If you are talking about multiple computers in one household , and you have any old ( really old even ) hardware to spare , a real , dedicated firewall might be in order - easy to set up and forget about , for a little extra piece of mind .
The other answer : switch them over to linux .
Mint is very easy to use and comes with most of what they 're likely to want .
If there 's a gamer in the house , have them dual-boot if they absolutely need to boot Windows .
Tell them linux is superior for most things will protect them from identity theft , and their Windows setup is specially optimized for games , or whatever you think will convince them .
And when it is time for new hardware , surely they 'll seek your advice then , right ?
Maybe consider Macs .
I hate MS , but keeping those systems running reasonably smoothly should not be that difficult .
Hell , I can do it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Every six months you have to reformat all of your family's computers because they are loaded with viruses and malware?
Seriously? That much, that often?
What they hell are they doing?
And do why haven't you set up any AV/anti-malware software?
Are MS updates set to install automatically?
They're obviously doing something very wrong, and so are you, if the situation is that consistently bad.
Yes, even in the Windoze world.
My own family is rather non-tech savy, though there is a lot of internet usage in their homes.
Give them some simple explanations about email attachments, make sure auto-updates are on, use a decent AV package, and maybe set up Adaware or Spybot Search and Destroy.
Firewalls are something to consider.
If you are talking about multiple computers in one household, and you have any old (really old even) hardware to spare, a real, dedicated firewall might be in order - easy to set up and forget about, for a little extra piece of mind.
The other answer: switch them over to linux.
Mint is very easy to use and comes with most of what they're likely to want.
If there's a gamer in the house, have them dual-boot if they absolutely need to boot Windows.
Tell them linux is superior for most things will protect them from identity theft, and their Windows setup is specially optimized for games, or whatever you think will convince them.
And when it is time for new hardware, surely they'll seek your advice then, right?
Maybe consider Macs.
I hate MS, but keeping those systems running reasonably smoothly should not be that difficult.
Hell, I can do it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075032</id>
	<title>Erase all their precious files</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258050360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Erase all their precious files the next time you find something worse than ad-ware on their machines. Of course, you want to back it up, but you're not telling that until a few weeks later when they come to realise that -not- knowing the risks of using a certain machine, they will end up losing -something-.<br>
Hey, I learned from that in 1999 when I lost a whole HD with all my work on there after having enabled some silly virus.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Erase all their precious files the next time you find something worse than ad-ware on their machines .
Of course , you want to back it up , but you 're not telling that until a few weeks later when they come to realise that -not- knowing the risks of using a certain machine , they will end up losing -something- .
Hey , I learned from that in 1999 when I lost a whole HD with all my work on there after having enabled some silly virus .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Erase all their precious files the next time you find something worse than ad-ware on their machines.
Of course, you want to back it up, but you're not telling that until a few weeks later when they come to realise that -not- knowing the risks of using a certain machine, they will end up losing -something-.
Hey, I learned from that in 1999 when I lost a whole HD with all my work on there after having enabled some silly virus.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30082850</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258041060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>give them a typewriter and a box of envelopes and postage stamps.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>give them a typewriter and a box of envelopes and postage stamps .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>give them a typewriter and a box of envelopes and postage stamps.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30082720</id>
	<title>I refuse to recommend a Mac to anyone.</title>
	<author>mano.m</author>
	<datestamp>1258040040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=13" title="phdcomics.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=13</a> [phdcomics.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php ? comicid = 13 [ phdcomics.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=13 [phdcomics.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077490</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>ckaminski</author>
	<datestamp>1258058280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>oddly enough, I've found that it's the couples that communicate, no matter the form, vs the silent/ignoring each other type, that last forever...<br><br>Of course if it's actual REAL arguing/fighting, you're doomed..</htmltext>
<tokenext>oddly enough , I 've found that it 's the couples that communicate , no matter the form , vs the silent/ignoring each other type , that last forever...Of course if it 's actual REAL arguing/fighting , you 're doomed. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>oddly enough, I've found that it's the couples that communicate, no matter the form, vs the silent/ignoring each other type, that last forever...Of course if it's actual REAL arguing/fighting, you're doomed..</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30087178</id>
	<title>Congratsto your 50 year old father</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258129800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...on nailing a 26 year old hottie!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...on nailing a 26 year old hottie !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...on nailing a 26 year old hottie!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076830</id>
	<title>All in the Family</title>
	<author>uwmlml</author>
	<datestamp>1258056000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My initial setup of there computer goes something like this:
I set up windows to have updates automatically downloaded and installed
I use Avast Anti-virus that will automatically update if it finds a connection (once a year I have to get a new registration code)
I use Open DNS, and set in on the router so that all PC's have protection

Then I use something like PC Decrapifier to remove the junk that company's install on PC's
Then I install the apps they need (aol, open office, paint.net, gimp, Picassa,  ext)

after that I warn them about not installing apps on there PC. (they do anyway)
I know that everyone has there own way of organizing things (if they want everything on there desktop, whatever) so long as they keep all of there files in the normal folders (so when I have to do an update or a reinstall, or a backup of there data, everything is in a easy location)

Its amazing the cultural differences between the "Tech Generation" and its parents. The parents want the ability to do everything the people who already learned the tech to do, but are not willing to invest the time or effort that the younger already put into it.  You don't expect to walk into a car and just drive it, if you've never learned. The same holds true with the PC. It comes from experience.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My initial setup of there computer goes something like this : I set up windows to have updates automatically downloaded and installed I use Avast Anti-virus that will automatically update if it finds a connection ( once a year I have to get a new registration code ) I use Open DNS , and set in on the router so that all PC 's have protection Then I use something like PC Decrapifier to remove the junk that company 's install on PC 's Then I install the apps they need ( aol , open office , paint.net , gimp , Picassa , ext ) after that I warn them about not installing apps on there PC .
( they do anyway ) I know that everyone has there own way of organizing things ( if they want everything on there desktop , whatever ) so long as they keep all of there files in the normal folders ( so when I have to do an update or a reinstall , or a backup of there data , everything is in a easy location ) Its amazing the cultural differences between the " Tech Generation " and its parents .
The parents want the ability to do everything the people who already learned the tech to do , but are not willing to invest the time or effort that the younger already put into it .
You do n't expect to walk into a car and just drive it , if you 've never learned .
The same holds true with the PC .
It comes from experience .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My initial setup of there computer goes something like this:
I set up windows to have updates automatically downloaded and installed
I use Avast Anti-virus that will automatically update if it finds a connection (once a year I have to get a new registration code)
I use Open DNS, and set in on the router so that all PC's have protection

Then I use something like PC Decrapifier to remove the junk that company's install on PC's
Then I install the apps they need (aol, open office, paint.net, gimp, Picassa,  ext)

after that I warn them about not installing apps on there PC.
(they do anyway)
I know that everyone has there own way of organizing things (if they want everything on there desktop, whatever) so long as they keep all of there files in the normal folders (so when I have to do an update or a reinstall, or a backup of there data, everything is in a easy location)

Its amazing the cultural differences between the "Tech Generation" and its parents.
The parents want the ability to do everything the people who already learned the tech to do, but are not willing to invest the time or effort that the younger already put into it.
You don't expect to walk into a car and just drive it, if you've never learned.
The same holds true with the PC.
It comes from experience.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075634</id>
	<title>My first question for you...</title>
	<author>damn\_registrars</author>
	<datestamp>1258052100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>... are you still letting them all log in to Windows with full administrator rights?  When I used to be suckered into supporting my mom's PC, we all found that the rate of problems went down astronomically when I set them up to use non-administrator accounts with their regular logins, and made the administrator account as cumbersome and inconvenient as possible to use.<br> <br>
Once you have the hardware setup, and the most important applications properly installed, there should be next to no need for them to have administrator rights on any regular basis.  And if they don't have administrator rights a lot of those viruses and malware infections that are dependent on administrator rights will simply not be of any consequence since they won't be able to install and deliver their payloads.<br> <br>
And if you can't explain that simple principle to them in terms that they can understand and agree with, then you need to tell them you won't support their system anymore.  When they find some other poor sucker to support their system, you will sleep much better at night.</htmltext>
<tokenext>... are you still letting them all log in to Windows with full administrator rights ?
When I used to be suckered into supporting my mom 's PC , we all found that the rate of problems went down astronomically when I set them up to use non-administrator accounts with their regular logins , and made the administrator account as cumbersome and inconvenient as possible to use .
Once you have the hardware setup , and the most important applications properly installed , there should be next to no need for them to have administrator rights on any regular basis .
And if they do n't have administrator rights a lot of those viruses and malware infections that are dependent on administrator rights will simply not be of any consequence since they wo n't be able to install and deliver their payloads .
And if you ca n't explain that simple principle to them in terms that they can understand and agree with , then you need to tell them you wo n't support their system anymore .
When they find some other poor sucker to support their system , you will sleep much better at night .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... are you still letting them all log in to Windows with full administrator rights?
When I used to be suckered into supporting my mom's PC, we all found that the rate of problems went down astronomically when I set them up to use non-administrator accounts with their regular logins, and made the administrator account as cumbersome and inconvenient as possible to use.
Once you have the hardware setup, and the most important applications properly installed, there should be next to no need for them to have administrator rights on any regular basis.
And if they don't have administrator rights a lot of those viruses and malware infections that are dependent on administrator rights will simply not be of any consequence since they won't be able to install and deliver their payloads.
And if you can't explain that simple principle to them in terms that they can understand and agree with, then you need to tell them you won't support their system anymore.
When they find some other poor sucker to support their system, you will sleep much better at night.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077564</id>
	<title>IF the kids play games then likey they will admin</title>
	<author>Joe The Dragon</author>
	<datestamp>1258058580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>IF the kids play games then likely they will need to be admin to be able to run them and some of the anit cheat stuff forces them to be admin as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>IF the kids play games then likely they will need to be admin to be able to run them and some of the anit cheat stuff forces them to be admin as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IF the kids play games then likely they will need to be admin to be able to run them and some of the anit cheat stuff forces them to be admin as well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077090</id>
	<title>Ohh the pain</title>
	<author>jmickle</author>
	<datestamp>1258056840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I feel your pain For some reason everyone in my family seems t odo the same. And yes now it is just purely a chore. I find that for my immediate family (parents and sister) i will fix theirs and just lock them down to normal practices. As far as my aunts and uncles it got so bad a while back ago that they would bicker about their computers to each other in the office they worked in. They got so bad the ywould call me while i was at work and bicker to me on the phone. I finally later discovered that a price tag of 200/hr for them would solve the issue.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I feel your pain For some reason everyone in my family seems t odo the same .
And yes now it is just purely a chore .
I find that for my immediate family ( parents and sister ) i will fix theirs and just lock them down to normal practices .
As far as my aunts and uncles it got so bad a while back ago that they would bicker about their computers to each other in the office they worked in .
They got so bad the ywould call me while i was at work and bicker to me on the phone .
I finally later discovered that a price tag of 200/hr for them would solve the issue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I feel your pain For some reason everyone in my family seems t odo the same.
And yes now it is just purely a chore.
I find that for my immediate family (parents and sister) i will fix theirs and just lock them down to normal practices.
As far as my aunts and uncles it got so bad a while back ago that they would bicker about their computers to each other in the office they worked in.
They got so bad the ywould call me while i was at work and bicker to me on the phone.
I finally later discovered that a price tag of 200/hr for them would solve the issue.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077068</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>Machtyn</author>
	<datestamp>1258056780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>My solution to malware: throw <a href="http://www.combofix.org/" title="combofix.org">combofix</a> [combofix.org] at it
<br>My solution to reinstalls:  Do it once, then use <a href="http://ping.windowsdream.com/" title="windowsdream.com">Partimage Is Not Ghost</a> [windowsdream.com] to create an image.  Then re-image in 10 minutes when needed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My solution to malware : throw combofix [ combofix.org ] at it My solution to reinstalls : Do it once , then use Partimage Is Not Ghost [ windowsdream.com ] to create an image .
Then re-image in 10 minutes when needed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My solution to malware: throw combofix [combofix.org] at it
My solution to reinstalls:  Do it once, then use Partimage Is Not Ghost [windowsdream.com] to create an image.
Then re-image in 10 minutes when needed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074676</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074984</id>
	<title>Re:Buy them a Mac</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258050240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree with this.   Went from being a fairly regular event to nearly not happening.</p><p>I got my grand father's mac to VPN (openvpn) to my network and I can remotely administrate his machine now too so it doesn't even requires a house call for most technical problems now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree with this .
Went from being a fairly regular event to nearly not happening.I got my grand father 's mac to VPN ( openvpn ) to my network and I can remotely administrate his machine now too so it does n't even requires a house call for most technical problems now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree with this.
Went from being a fairly regular event to nearly not happening.I got my grand father's mac to VPN (openvpn) to my network and I can remotely administrate his machine now too so it doesn't even requires a house call for most technical problems now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074696</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074928</id>
	<title>Proxy server</title>
	<author>jhfry</author>
	<datestamp>1258050180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not gonna solve every problem, but a properly configured proxy server will prevent a tremendous number of issues.  Couple it with OpenDNS's filters and a minimal amount of training and you can stop most of the routine malware.</p><p>Of course, I switched my family to Linux years ago... but if I absolutely had to run windows, I would use OpenDNS and some sort of proxy that will scan downloads for viruses(squid w/ clamAV?).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not gon na solve every problem , but a properly configured proxy server will prevent a tremendous number of issues .
Couple it with OpenDNS 's filters and a minimal amount of training and you can stop most of the routine malware.Of course , I switched my family to Linux years ago... but if I absolutely had to run windows , I would use OpenDNS and some sort of proxy that will scan downloads for viruses ( squid w/ clamAV ?
) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not gonna solve every problem, but a properly configured proxy server will prevent a tremendous number of issues.
Couple it with OpenDNS's filters and a minimal amount of training and you can stop most of the routine malware.Of course, I switched my family to Linux years ago... but if I absolutely had to run windows, I would use OpenDNS and some sort of proxy that will scan downloads for viruses(squid w/ clamAV?
).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075978</id>
	<title>SANS Ouch! Monthly Newsletter</title>
	<author>mydots</author>
	<datestamp>1258053240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.sans.org/newsletters/ouch/" title="sans.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.sans.org/newsletters/ouch/</a> [sans.org]

You can subscribe them to the monthly newsletter.  It is meant to help non technical users understand these issues.

Being in the IT Department, I have been forwarding these emails every month to all employees for years.</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.sans.org/newsletters/ouch/ [ sans.org ] You can subscribe them to the monthly newsletter .
It is meant to help non technical users understand these issues .
Being in the IT Department , I have been forwarding these emails every month to all employees for years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.sans.org/newsletters/ouch/ [sans.org]

You can subscribe them to the monthly newsletter.
It is meant to help non technical users understand these issues.
Being in the IT Department, I have been forwarding these emails every month to all employees for years.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30084722</id>
	<title>lockdown?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258108140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Try locking the PC down to the minimum they need so that there is no way to install anything from the web?<br>I've done this at my work for our Out Of Office hours PC used by many "slightly more retarded employees" thinking installing every damn toolbar in the world is fun and a necessity....<br>not only make them none admins but open the security policies and take away what they dont need,<br>make your life easier by having them ask why cant i do this....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Try locking the PC down to the minimum they need so that there is no way to install anything from the web ? I 've done this at my work for our Out Of Office hours PC used by many " slightly more retarded employees " thinking installing every damn toolbar in the world is fun and a necessity....not only make them none admins but open the security policies and take away what they dont need,make your life easier by having them ask why cant i do this... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try locking the PC down to the minimum they need so that there is no way to install anything from the web?I've done this at my work for our Out Of Office hours PC used by many "slightly more retarded employees" thinking installing every damn toolbar in the world is fun and a necessity....not only make them none admins but open the security policies and take away what they dont need,make your life easier by having them ask why cant i do this....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077778</id>
	<title>Re:Moral Hazard</title>
	<author>Fulcrum of Evil</author>
	<datestamp>1258059300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Imagine a mechanic telling his brother-in-law "pay me for parts and labor, or just take it to the dealership". I can't imagine this. At the very best, I can imagine the mechanic saying "XYZ is probably wrong, I don't have the time to fix it, take it to RST and tell them ABC. They should be able to fix it for $HIJ"</p> </div><p>Imagine a brother in law demanding this mechanic fix his car for free whenever he screws up the suspension from, i dunno, running over dogs.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Also, that mechanics are busy people and actually don't have time to fart around helping their families.</p> </div><p>As a computer guy, I obviously have tons and tons of free time and nothing to do.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Imagine a mechanic telling his brother-in-law " pay me for parts and labor , or just take it to the dealership " .
I ca n't imagine this .
At the very best , I can imagine the mechanic saying " XYZ is probably wrong , I do n't have the time to fix it , take it to RST and tell them ABC .
They should be able to fix it for $ HIJ " Imagine a brother in law demanding this mechanic fix his car for free whenever he screws up the suspension from , i dunno , running over dogs.Also , that mechanics are busy people and actually do n't have time to fart around helping their families .
As a computer guy , I obviously have tons and tons of free time and nothing to do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Imagine a mechanic telling his brother-in-law "pay me for parts and labor, or just take it to the dealership".
I can't imagine this.
At the very best, I can imagine the mechanic saying "XYZ is probably wrong, I don't have the time to fix it, take it to RST and tell them ABC.
They should be able to fix it for $HIJ" Imagine a brother in law demanding this mechanic fix his car for free whenever he screws up the suspension from, i dunno, running over dogs.Also, that mechanics are busy people and actually don't have time to fart around helping their families.
As a computer guy, I obviously have tons and tons of free time and nothing to do.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075480</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075896</id>
	<title>Work out what's going wring</title>
	<author>Curmudgeonlyoldbloke</author>
	<datestamp>1258053000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Machines (even Windows machines) continually getting infected by Viruses and other malware is not normal.  If it keeps happening, someone's doing something to cause it.  What I suspect that you're going to have to do is to find out how the infection is happening and make it difficult or impossible for it to happen again in the future.</p><p>What that is will depend what the problem is - it might be ensuring that users use non-admin accounts, or browsers that are easier to lock down, or something else entirely.</p><p>Obligatory car analogy - right now they're regularly running out of fuel because the fuel gauge is broken, and you're fixing it by filling the tank up and putting them back exactly where they were before.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Machines ( even Windows machines ) continually getting infected by Viruses and other malware is not normal .
If it keeps happening , someone 's doing something to cause it .
What I suspect that you 're going to have to do is to find out how the infection is happening and make it difficult or impossible for it to happen again in the future.What that is will depend what the problem is - it might be ensuring that users use non-admin accounts , or browsers that are easier to lock down , or something else entirely.Obligatory car analogy - right now they 're regularly running out of fuel because the fuel gauge is broken , and you 're fixing it by filling the tank up and putting them back exactly where they were before .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Machines (even Windows machines) continually getting infected by Viruses and other malware is not normal.
If it keeps happening, someone's doing something to cause it.
What I suspect that you're going to have to do is to find out how the infection is happening and make it difficult or impossible for it to happen again in the future.What that is will depend what the problem is - it might be ensuring that users use non-admin accounts, or browsers that are easier to lock down, or something else entirely.Obligatory car analogy - right now they're regularly running out of fuel because the fuel gauge is broken, and you're fixing it by filling the tank up and putting them back exactly where they were before.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076106</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258053600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Use an old spare PC to install an Untangle gateway. Filter the bad stuff and prevent them from even being exposed.<br>http://www.untangle.com</p><p>It's free too.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Use an old spare PC to install an Untangle gateway .
Filter the bad stuff and prevent them from even being exposed.http : //www.untangle.comIt 's free too .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Use an old spare PC to install an Untangle gateway.
Filter the bad stuff and prevent them from even being exposed.http://www.untangle.comIt's free too.
:)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077252</id>
	<title>Re:Correct User Access</title>
	<author>ckaminski</author>
	<datestamp>1258057440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is a failure of Microsoft to provide a decent way of extending Windows Update to 3rd Party vendors.  Catch up with Linux already, will you, Redmon?</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a failure of Microsoft to provide a decent way of extending Windows Update to 3rd Party vendors .
Catch up with Linux already , will you , Redmon ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a failure of Microsoft to provide a decent way of extending Windows Update to 3rd Party vendors.
Catch up with Linux already, will you, Redmon?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075546</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30084938</id>
	<title>dummies can't use linux</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258111440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Need I remind that dummies cannot use linux and will whine about how they do not understand anything to it ?</p><p>Why dont you just install a goddam anti-virus and some stuff like ccleaner (but in better of course) ?<br>I use stuff like Avast and Tune Up on my windows.</p><p>Sure that won't stop them from opening "I love you" emails but I guess having tools to clean up the mess they make and run them every week wouldn't hurt.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Need I remind that dummies can not use linux and will whine about how they do not understand anything to it ? Why dont you just install a goddam anti-virus and some stuff like ccleaner ( but in better of course ) ? I use stuff like Avast and Tune Up on my windows.Sure that wo n't stop them from opening " I love you " emails but I guess having tools to clean up the mess they make and run them every week would n't hurt .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Need I remind that dummies cannot use linux and will whine about how they do not understand anything to it ?Why dont you just install a goddam anti-virus and some stuff like ccleaner (but in better of course) ?I use stuff like Avast and Tune Up on my windows.Sure that won't stop them from opening "I love you" emails but I guess having tools to clean up the mess they make and run them every week wouldn't hurt.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30079324</id>
	<title>Remove Administrative Rights</title>
	<author>cbreaker</author>
	<datestamp>1258021860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Look, I have a mother and a sister with computers and neither of them are computer experts.   Awhile back, spyware and junk was a big problem until I got them both to use Firefox.   Ever since it has been no problem.   Both of them have local admin rights and I only get called when there's a hardware problem (hard disk failure, fan loud, etc.)   I don't mind that.<br><br>If you can't give them a few points of advice and have them listen, they're taking advantage of you.   It's relatively easy to keep a reasonable computer system.   Just don't download shit.   That's all.   They download shit, and they get screwed, and they don't care that you told them not to.   If they learned how to make a bowl of cereal, they can NOT download something.<br><br>So, take away their admin rights.   Make them normal user accounts, and when they want to install something they'll have to ask you.<br><br>It will solve 99\% of your problems.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Look , I have a mother and a sister with computers and neither of them are computer experts .
Awhile back , spyware and junk was a big problem until I got them both to use Firefox .
Ever since it has been no problem .
Both of them have local admin rights and I only get called when there 's a hardware problem ( hard disk failure , fan loud , etc .
) I do n't mind that.If you ca n't give them a few points of advice and have them listen , they 're taking advantage of you .
It 's relatively easy to keep a reasonable computer system .
Just do n't download shit .
That 's all .
They download shit , and they get screwed , and they do n't care that you told them not to .
If they learned how to make a bowl of cereal , they can NOT download something.So , take away their admin rights .
Make them normal user accounts , and when they want to install something they 'll have to ask you.It will solve 99 \ % of your problems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look, I have a mother and a sister with computers and neither of them are computer experts.
Awhile back, spyware and junk was a big problem until I got them both to use Firefox.
Ever since it has been no problem.
Both of them have local admin rights and I only get called when there's a hardware problem (hard disk failure, fan loud, etc.
)   I don't mind that.If you can't give them a few points of advice and have them listen, they're taking advantage of you.
It's relatively easy to keep a reasonable computer system.
Just don't download shit.
That's all.
They download shit, and they get screwed, and they don't care that you told them not to.
If they learned how to make a bowl of cereal, they can NOT download something.So, take away their admin rights.
Make them normal user accounts, and when they want to install something they'll have to ask you.It will solve 99\% of your problems.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074942</id>
	<title>Keep Users...just Users</title>
	<author>bitbreaker</author>
	<datestamp>1258050180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm in the same situation and I limited the dead-scenario by keeping user accounts in the Users Group (and NOT Administrators).

Normally, a non-tech user, doesn't need any other things than Mail Client (sometimes, they even check emails thru the Web), Web Browser and Office suite.

As soon as you installed such Apps with YOUR SUPER-SECRET Administrator Account, keep them in the Users Group.

It's a feasible way: contract with them: "Do you prefer Virus or Administrator Account?".

The other way to speed up things is keeping an hard disk image of the last clean installation: with software like Clonezilla, you can restore PCs in a faster way.

Unfortunately, I'm looking for some videos to let my parents know what a malware is, how to avoid and so on...and I'm an Italian Guy: videos in such native language is harder
to find.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm in the same situation and I limited the dead-scenario by keeping user accounts in the Users Group ( and NOT Administrators ) .
Normally , a non-tech user , does n't need any other things than Mail Client ( sometimes , they even check emails thru the Web ) , Web Browser and Office suite .
As soon as you installed such Apps with YOUR SUPER-SECRET Administrator Account , keep them in the Users Group .
It 's a feasible way : contract with them : " Do you prefer Virus or Administrator Account ? " .
The other way to speed up things is keeping an hard disk image of the last clean installation : with software like Clonezilla , you can restore PCs in a faster way .
Unfortunately , I 'm looking for some videos to let my parents know what a malware is , how to avoid and so on...and I 'm an Italian Guy : videos in such native language is harder to find .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm in the same situation and I limited the dead-scenario by keeping user accounts in the Users Group (and NOT Administrators).
Normally, a non-tech user, doesn't need any other things than Mail Client (sometimes, they even check emails thru the Web), Web Browser and Office suite.
As soon as you installed such Apps with YOUR SUPER-SECRET Administrator Account, keep them in the Users Group.
It's a feasible way: contract with them: "Do you prefer Virus or Administrator Account?".
The other way to speed up things is keeping an hard disk image of the last clean installation: with software like Clonezilla, you can restore PCs in a faster way.
Unfortunately, I'm looking for some videos to let my parents know what a malware is, how to avoid and so on...and I'm an Italian Guy: videos in such native language is harder
to find.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074990</id>
	<title>A few suggestions</title>
	<author>gomiam</author>
	<datestamp>1258050300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have to deal with a few hundred "family members" daily (read: teachers, alumns and support personnel)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;) Our user's requirements are quite uniform: Web/mail access, document editor/spreadsheet, and multimedia.</p><p>Our solution is quite simple: restrict access. Do they want to install some software? Ask us. Do they want to connect a new printer? Ask us. We don't allow (almost) anybody to install, upgrade, or do any administrative work on the Campus' computers. That's what we are there for. And no, there's no "I need to have this installed right now or the world will collapse" software. If they want something installed, let them ask for it with time to spare.</p><p>
That, removing Internet Explorer from sight of recalcitrant users and a few registry tweaks (like creating an autorun.inf entry in IniFileMappings conveniently set up to avoid autorun.inf files being read) and the computers work quite well quite often<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>
Of course, family pressures can be (and usually are) harder to withstand than workplace ones<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have to deal with a few hundred " family members " daily ( read : teachers , alumns and support personnel ) ; ) Our user 's requirements are quite uniform : Web/mail access , document editor/spreadsheet , and multimedia.Our solution is quite simple : restrict access .
Do they want to install some software ?
Ask us .
Do they want to connect a new printer ?
Ask us .
We do n't allow ( almost ) anybody to install , upgrade , or do any administrative work on the Campus ' computers .
That 's what we are there for .
And no , there 's no " I need to have this installed right now or the world will collapse " software .
If they want something installed , let them ask for it with time to spare .
That , removing Internet Explorer from sight of recalcitrant users and a few registry tweaks ( like creating an autorun.inf entry in IniFileMappings conveniently set up to avoid autorun.inf files being read ) and the computers work quite well quite often : ) Of course , family pressures can be ( and usually are ) harder to withstand than workplace ones : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have to deal with a few hundred "family members" daily (read: teachers, alumns and support personnel) ;) Our user's requirements are quite uniform: Web/mail access, document editor/spreadsheet, and multimedia.Our solution is quite simple: restrict access.
Do they want to install some software?
Ask us.
Do they want to connect a new printer?
Ask us.
We don't allow (almost) anybody to install, upgrade, or do any administrative work on the Campus' computers.
That's what we are there for.
And no, there's no "I need to have this installed right now or the world will collapse" software.
If they want something installed, let them ask for it with time to spare.
That, removing Internet Explorer from sight of recalcitrant users and a few registry tweaks (like creating an autorun.inf entry in IniFileMappings conveniently set up to avoid autorun.inf files being read) and the computers work quite well quite often :)
Of course, family pressures can be (and usually are) harder to withstand than workplace ones :)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30084540</id>
	<title>same old story...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258105500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm in the same pair of shoes. My recipe is simple:<br>Put your LAN behind a linux box, ghost clean terminals (g4l), use portable apps whenever possible (easy to redeploy after recovery from image), vnc every terminal (for admin access), automate backups (backula, to that aforementioned linux box) and avoid wifi because it makes your wifi access less foolproof. And make sure all your terminals support Wake On Lan...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm in the same pair of shoes .
My recipe is simple : Put your LAN behind a linux box , ghost clean terminals ( g4l ) , use portable apps whenever possible ( easy to redeploy after recovery from image ) , vnc every terminal ( for admin access ) , automate backups ( backula , to that aforementioned linux box ) and avoid wifi because it makes your wifi access less foolproof .
And make sure all your terminals support Wake On Lan.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm in the same pair of shoes.
My recipe is simple:Put your LAN behind a linux box, ghost clean terminals (g4l), use portable apps whenever possible (easy to redeploy after recovery from image), vnc every terminal (for admin access), automate backups (backula, to that aforementioned linux box) and avoid wifi because it makes your wifi access less foolproof.
And make sure all your terminals support Wake On Lan...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077852</id>
	<title>My family must be weird...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258059540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We do have our share of compter woes, in the past, I was the cause of a few. But, as I learned more, I shared what I knew with my parents. This helped them gain a better understanding of how viruses, computers and drivers all work. Now, I'm at school for IT, and I still do get the semi-frequent calls about simple computer problems. Recently, my parents got a new computer with Vista on it. It became infected by some unknown virus. During one of there desperate calls for help, I heard my father, perhaps one of the more computer-illiterate ones in my family, mention Windows 7. I jumped on the opportunity to offer them a free upgrade, provided that they hook me up with some groceries. A good deal, considering that the OS was only $30 with my student email. I upgraded the machine, gave them a copy of Office 2007, Firefox, and some other apps, and all has been well. I've also appointed my younger brother my semi-official assistant, as it's slightly easier to communicate more complex configuration tasks. My parents still retain ownership of the administrator account, and do basically understand the principles of safe computing. It's a system that works, and when it doesn't work, it gives me good practice for future cutomer support that I'm likely to do in my career.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We do have our share of compter woes , in the past , I was the cause of a few .
But , as I learned more , I shared what I knew with my parents .
This helped them gain a better understanding of how viruses , computers and drivers all work .
Now , I 'm at school for IT , and I still do get the semi-frequent calls about simple computer problems .
Recently , my parents got a new computer with Vista on it .
It became infected by some unknown virus .
During one of there desperate calls for help , I heard my father , perhaps one of the more computer-illiterate ones in my family , mention Windows 7 .
I jumped on the opportunity to offer them a free upgrade , provided that they hook me up with some groceries .
A good deal , considering that the OS was only $ 30 with my student email .
I upgraded the machine , gave them a copy of Office 2007 , Firefox , and some other apps , and all has been well .
I 've also appointed my younger brother my semi-official assistant , as it 's slightly easier to communicate more complex configuration tasks .
My parents still retain ownership of the administrator account , and do basically understand the principles of safe computing .
It 's a system that works , and when it does n't work , it gives me good practice for future cutomer support that I 'm likely to do in my career .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We do have our share of compter woes, in the past, I was the cause of a few.
But, as I learned more, I shared what I knew with my parents.
This helped them gain a better understanding of how viruses, computers and drivers all work.
Now, I'm at school for IT, and I still do get the semi-frequent calls about simple computer problems.
Recently, my parents got a new computer with Vista on it.
It became infected by some unknown virus.
During one of there desperate calls for help, I heard my father, perhaps one of the more computer-illiterate ones in my family, mention Windows 7.
I jumped on the opportunity to offer them a free upgrade, provided that they hook me up with some groceries.
A good deal, considering that the OS was only $30 with my student email.
I upgraded the machine, gave them a copy of Office 2007, Firefox, and some other apps, and all has been well.
I've also appointed my younger brother my semi-official assistant, as it's slightly easier to communicate more complex configuration tasks.
My parents still retain ownership of the administrator account, and do basically understand the principles of safe computing.
It's a system that works, and when it doesn't work, it gives me good practice for future cutomer support that I'm likely to do in my career.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30080534</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>thoglette</author>
	<datestamp>1258026000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>+1 I've had exactly \_one\_ call from a MAC user - including those I used to get a call from every week when they had windows.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>+ 1 I 've had exactly \ _one \ _ call from a MAC user - including those I used to get a call from every week when they had windows .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>+1 I've had exactly \_one\_ call from a MAC user - including those I used to get a call from every week when they had windows.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075360</id>
	<title>You know what I do?</title>
	<author>krnpimpsta</author>
	<datestamp>1258051320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>1) Repartition the drive so they have a 20-40GB C: drive and partition the remainder for their data on D:.
<br> <br>
2) After installing a fresh copy of windows on a freshly formatted drive, I install all their applications (make a list of them before reformatting, so you don't forget details like Adobe Flash Player, Acrobat, etc.).  Also do all the windows updates and update all the applications.
<br> <br>
3) Move the "My Documents" folder to the D: drive - also go through all the applications and verify that the default saving directories are all on the D: drive.
<br> <br>
4) IMMEDIATELY Create a image of the C: partition.  I use BartPE/WinPE to boot up outside of windows and "Symantec Ghost" to create an image.  You can use any boot disk and any image program you want.  Save the image to the D: partition.  This image will be a large file or series of files that contains all the data of C:.
<br> <br>
5) Now allow them to use their computers for about a week.  This will allow them to move things around, customize things to their liking, etc.
<br> <br>
6) Come in a week later, check for viruses, malware, etc.  If it's clean, then create a SECOND image.  This is your "broken in" image.
<br> <br>
<i>[6.1) If it's not clean, try to find out what caused the problem - go back to the original image you just made, and copy it back on.  Show them what caused it, and tell them not to download whatever program caused it - and come back in another week (go back to step 5).]
</i> <br> <br>
7) Now burn your image files to DVDs - or stick them on your personal removable hard drive.  Next time they have a computer issue, you can reformat/clean install/AND get back to their original settings/preferences/etc in about 15 minutes, by reimaging their computer.  Unless they manage to royally screw things up, you don't even need to bring anything but a boot disk/cd, because their backup images should be on their D: drive.  You have backups personally just in case too.  ONE LAST THING:  Before reimaging, temporarily backup their desktop folder and their Favorites folder in the D: drive.  If you want to be really safe, backup the entire user directory in C:\Documents and Settings\.  ALSO - do a quick search for documents that may have been saved on the C: drive.  Then restore their desktop/favorites after reimaging.
<br> <br>
8) After re-imaging, do windows updates.
<br> <br>
I do this with my parents and friends the moment anyone needs a clean install.  It adds about 30 min onto the process but then allows you to repeat it</htmltext>
<tokenext>1 ) Repartition the drive so they have a 20-40GB C : drive and partition the remainder for their data on D : .
2 ) After installing a fresh copy of windows on a freshly formatted drive , I install all their applications ( make a list of them before reformatting , so you do n't forget details like Adobe Flash Player , Acrobat , etc. ) .
Also do all the windows updates and update all the applications .
3 ) Move the " My Documents " folder to the D : drive - also go through all the applications and verify that the default saving directories are all on the D : drive .
4 ) IMMEDIATELY Create a image of the C : partition .
I use BartPE/WinPE to boot up outside of windows and " Symantec Ghost " to create an image .
You can use any boot disk and any image program you want .
Save the image to the D : partition .
This image will be a large file or series of files that contains all the data of C : .
5 ) Now allow them to use their computers for about a week .
This will allow them to move things around , customize things to their liking , etc .
6 ) Come in a week later , check for viruses , malware , etc .
If it 's clean , then create a SECOND image .
This is your " broken in " image .
[ 6.1 ) If it 's not clean , try to find out what caused the problem - go back to the original image you just made , and copy it back on .
Show them what caused it , and tell them not to download whatever program caused it - and come back in another week ( go back to step 5 ) .
] 7 ) Now burn your image files to DVDs - or stick them on your personal removable hard drive .
Next time they have a computer issue , you can reformat/clean install/AND get back to their original settings/preferences/etc in about 15 minutes , by reimaging their computer .
Unless they manage to royally screw things up , you do n't even need to bring anything but a boot disk/cd , because their backup images should be on their D : drive .
You have backups personally just in case too .
ONE LAST THING : Before reimaging , temporarily backup their desktop folder and their Favorites folder in the D : drive .
If you want to be really safe , backup the entire user directory in C : \ Documents and Settings \ .
ALSO - do a quick search for documents that may have been saved on the C : drive .
Then restore their desktop/favorites after reimaging .
8 ) After re-imaging , do windows updates .
I do this with my parents and friends the moment anyone needs a clean install .
It adds about 30 min onto the process but then allows you to repeat it</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1) Repartition the drive so they have a 20-40GB C: drive and partition the remainder for their data on D:.
2) After installing a fresh copy of windows on a freshly formatted drive, I install all their applications (make a list of them before reformatting, so you don't forget details like Adobe Flash Player, Acrobat, etc.).
Also do all the windows updates and update all the applications.
3) Move the "My Documents" folder to the D: drive - also go through all the applications and verify that the default saving directories are all on the D: drive.
4) IMMEDIATELY Create a image of the C: partition.
I use BartPE/WinPE to boot up outside of windows and "Symantec Ghost" to create an image.
You can use any boot disk and any image program you want.
Save the image to the D: partition.
This image will be a large file or series of files that contains all the data of C:.
5) Now allow them to use their computers for about a week.
This will allow them to move things around, customize things to their liking, etc.
6) Come in a week later, check for viruses, malware, etc.
If it's clean, then create a SECOND image.
This is your "broken in" image.
[6.1) If it's not clean, try to find out what caused the problem - go back to the original image you just made, and copy it back on.
Show them what caused it, and tell them not to download whatever program caused it - and come back in another week (go back to step 5).
]
  
7) Now burn your image files to DVDs - or stick them on your personal removable hard drive.
Next time they have a computer issue, you can reformat/clean install/AND get back to their original settings/preferences/etc in about 15 minutes, by reimaging their computer.
Unless they manage to royally screw things up, you don't even need to bring anything but a boot disk/cd, because their backup images should be on their D: drive.
You have backups personally just in case too.
ONE LAST THING:  Before reimaging, temporarily backup their desktop folder and their Favorites folder in the D: drive.
If you want to be really safe, backup the entire user directory in C:\Documents and Settings\.
ALSO - do a quick search for documents that may have been saved on the C: drive.
Then restore their desktop/favorites after reimaging.
8) After re-imaging, do windows updates.
I do this with my parents and friends the moment anyone needs a clean install.
It adds about 30 min onto the process but then allows you to repeat it</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077508</id>
	<title>Re:Install Ubuntu</title>
	<author>dargaud</author>
	<datestamp>1258058400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>no technical background aside from surfing the internet. Sounds like a perfect audience for an OS with fewer security flaws.</p></div><p>In the same situation, let me relate my story: Over at my parents' for the WE almost a year ago I had yet again to reinstall the whole shebang after a hardware improvement was 'refused' by XP. After a day and a half installing XP, downloading SPs and updates, downloading all apps, configuring them, etc, it crashed during the XP3 install. Wouldn't boot. I had 2 hours left.
</p><p>
As an experiment and a last minute move, I installed Kubuntu. 10 minutes for the install, 20 minutes to configure custom icons on the desktop links to firefox, kmail, dolphin, Xsane and a SD card image transfer script. I didn't even show them the result, just as an experiment. And I left. They called only once after 2 weeks: "Yeah it works fine, but we don't have skype anymore", which I promptly remotely installed. I consider this experiment a great success.
</p><p>
On the other hand, in order to escape Linux, my sister bought a Mac.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>no technical background aside from surfing the internet .
Sounds like a perfect audience for an OS with fewer security flaws.In the same situation , let me relate my story : Over at my parents ' for the WE almost a year ago I had yet again to reinstall the whole shebang after a hardware improvement was 'refused ' by XP .
After a day and a half installing XP , downloading SPs and updates , downloading all apps , configuring them , etc , it crashed during the XP3 install .
Would n't boot .
I had 2 hours left .
As an experiment and a last minute move , I installed Kubuntu .
10 minutes for the install , 20 minutes to configure custom icons on the desktop links to firefox , kmail , dolphin , Xsane and a SD card image transfer script .
I did n't even show them the result , just as an experiment .
And I left .
They called only once after 2 weeks : " Yeah it works fine , but we do n't have skype anymore " , which I promptly remotely installed .
I consider this experiment a great success .
On the other hand , in order to escape Linux , my sister bought a Mac .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>no technical background aside from surfing the internet.
Sounds like a perfect audience for an OS with fewer security flaws.In the same situation, let me relate my story: Over at my parents' for the WE almost a year ago I had yet again to reinstall the whole shebang after a hardware improvement was 'refused' by XP.
After a day and a half installing XP, downloading SPs and updates, downloading all apps, configuring them, etc, it crashed during the XP3 install.
Wouldn't boot.
I had 2 hours left.
As an experiment and a last minute move, I installed Kubuntu.
10 minutes for the install, 20 minutes to configure custom icons on the desktop links to firefox, kmail, dolphin, Xsane and a SD card image transfer script.
I didn't even show them the result, just as an experiment.
And I left.
They called only once after 2 weeks: "Yeah it works fine, but we don't have skype anymore", which I promptly remotely installed.
I consider this experiment a great success.
On the other hand, in order to escape Linux, my sister bought a Mac.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074680</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30079850</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>Dread\_ed</author>
	<datestamp>1258023480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My Ubuntu experience:</p><p>My best friend of 20 years is a linux/unix sysadmin and in his spare time sets up clusters with petabyte storage for universities, oil companies, physics labs, etc.  He is a Linux zealot (lovably so, not the annoying kind) and has performed many OS conversions with friends and neighbors.  So I buy a new windows vista box a year and a half a go and he says, "Lets dual boot it with Ubuntu!"  To which I respond, "Great!  I'll buy beer and pizza, you come over and set it up while I watch."  I was genuinely excited about the prospect.  I had heard Ubuntu was not only simple to install but also to use so I was definitely game.</p><p>The result?  After three plus hours of unsucessfully plumbing the depths of the web for working wireless drivers, I released him from his obligation and we all get drunk.  Later, I blow the partition off the drive and mentally assign Ubuntu and Linux in general to the "failed experiments" category.</p><p>Maybe the driver situation has improved, but just watching the lenghts that he had to go to made me realize that even the "easiest of all Linux OS systems" can still be a giant pain in the ass.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My Ubuntu experience : My best friend of 20 years is a linux/unix sysadmin and in his spare time sets up clusters with petabyte storage for universities , oil companies , physics labs , etc .
He is a Linux zealot ( lovably so , not the annoying kind ) and has performed many OS conversions with friends and neighbors .
So I buy a new windows vista box a year and a half a go and he says , " Lets dual boot it with Ubuntu !
" To which I respond , " Great !
I 'll buy beer and pizza , you come over and set it up while I watch .
" I was genuinely excited about the prospect .
I had heard Ubuntu was not only simple to install but also to use so I was definitely game.The result ?
After three plus hours of unsucessfully plumbing the depths of the web for working wireless drivers , I released him from his obligation and we all get drunk .
Later , I blow the partition off the drive and mentally assign Ubuntu and Linux in general to the " failed experiments " category.Maybe the driver situation has improved , but just watching the lenghts that he had to go to made me realize that even the " easiest of all Linux OS systems " can still be a giant pain in the ass .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My Ubuntu experience:My best friend of 20 years is a linux/unix sysadmin and in his spare time sets up clusters with petabyte storage for universities, oil companies, physics labs, etc.
He is a Linux zealot (lovably so, not the annoying kind) and has performed many OS conversions with friends and neighbors.
So I buy a new windows vista box a year and a half a go and he says, "Lets dual boot it with Ubuntu!
"  To which I respond, "Great!
I'll buy beer and pizza, you come over and set it up while I watch.
"  I was genuinely excited about the prospect.
I had heard Ubuntu was not only simple to install but also to use so I was definitely game.The result?
After three plus hours of unsucessfully plumbing the depths of the web for working wireless drivers, I released him from his obligation and we all get drunk.
Later, I blow the partition off the drive and mentally assign Ubuntu and Linux in general to the "failed experiments" category.Maybe the driver situation has improved, but just watching the lenghts that he had to go to made me realize that even the "easiest of all Linux OS systems" can still be a giant pain in the ass.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075496</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077390</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>Jazz-Masta</author>
	<datestamp>1258057860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sorry, it *is* jokingly between us.</p><p>Whenever there is a computer problem, i say "well, time to save some lives" whenever she's around to get her into it...it definitely confuses people around us.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry , it * is * jokingly between us.Whenever there is a computer problem , i say " well , time to save some lives " whenever she 's around to get her into it...it definitely confuses people around us .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry, it *is* jokingly between us.Whenever there is a computer problem, i say "well, time to save some lives" whenever she's around to get her into it...it definitely confuses people around us.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30083996</id>
	<title>Re:Correct User Access</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258053360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're right, he should run Internet Explorer.<br>In fact, I feel so intact with that decision that we'll give him your phone number in case he has problems.  After all, you feel it to be a superior browser.<br>*leans back with popcorn and watches*</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're right , he should run Internet Explorer.In fact , I feel so intact with that decision that we 'll give him your phone number in case he has problems .
After all , you feel it to be a superior browser .
* leans back with popcorn and watches *</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're right, he should run Internet Explorer.In fact, I feel so intact with that decision that we'll give him your phone number in case he has problems.
After all, you feel it to be a superior browser.
*leans back with popcorn and watches*</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075546</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078334</id>
	<title>Provisioned Thin clients</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258018200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Having a provisioned thin client woudl be best, if there is a problem, just reboot and stream the image. No need to worry about a virus.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Having a provisioned thin client woudl be best , if there is a problem , just reboot and stream the image .
No need to worry about a virus .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having a provisioned thin client woudl be best, if there is a problem, just reboot and stream the image.
No need to worry about a virus.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074704</id>
	<title>Related question</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258049580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I keep sticking a knife into my eye every three months. Can anyone provide detail instructions on how I can do this without causing so much pain?</p><p>Sometimes giving an answer to the asked question isn't appropriate. Sometimes you have to tell the asker that they are looking at it all wrong.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I keep sticking a knife into my eye every three months .
Can anyone provide detail instructions on how I can do this without causing so much pain ? Sometimes giving an answer to the asked question is n't appropriate .
Sometimes you have to tell the asker that they are looking at it all wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I keep sticking a knife into my eye every three months.
Can anyone provide detail instructions on how I can do this without causing so much pain?Sometimes giving an answer to the asked question isn't appropriate.
Sometimes you have to tell the asker that they are looking at it all wrong.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30083156</id>
	<title>Re:Get a Mac</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258043340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Two hours to upgrade RAM???</p><p>I didn't know Apple used soldered-on memory chips on the iMac. Hmm.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Two hours to upgrade RAM ? ?
? I did n't know Apple used soldered-on memory chips on the iMac .
Hmm .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Two hours to upgrade RAM??
?I didn't know Apple used soldered-on memory chips on the iMac.
Hmm.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074922</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077968</id>
	<title>"I'll support you if you get a Mac."</title>
	<author>DuBois</author>
	<datestamp>1258016760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Those who have Macs call me about once a year for a 20 minute Q&amp;A, which takes care of things for another year.<br>
Those who don't have Macs know not to call me, and they don't.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Those who have Macs call me about once a year for a 20 minute Q&amp;A , which takes care of things for another year .
Those who do n't have Macs know not to call me , and they do n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Those who have Macs call me about once a year for a 20 minute Q&amp;A, which takes care of things for another year.
Those who don't have Macs know not to call me, and they don't.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074896</id>
	<title>The last time I had this problem...</title>
	<author>orsty3001</author>
	<datestamp>1258050120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I had an old man that had trouble using computers, always getting viruses and what not. I installed Ubuntu to head off a lot of these problem but he refused to use it. He wouldn't even let it boot all the way up. He saw the splash screen and just turned it off. Next thing I know I got a request to appear in court in the mail and had to defend my actions to a judge that was just as ignorant of computers.

I actually lost the law suit but was able to get the court to agree that my punishment was going to be to set the machine back like it was. In my book that's not a loss. It's what I wanted to do from the start if he didn't like it.

After that I refuse to do anything for anyone that isn't paying me. No more favors, if any friends, neighbors or family want their computers fixed they can take it to a shop and pay to have it fixed.

Something a lot of computer techs need to learn to do. When someone asks of you can fix their problem recite, "I really don't know that much about computers."

I say this in the mirror from time to time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I had an old man that had trouble using computers , always getting viruses and what not .
I installed Ubuntu to head off a lot of these problem but he refused to use it .
He would n't even let it boot all the way up .
He saw the splash screen and just turned it off .
Next thing I know I got a request to appear in court in the mail and had to defend my actions to a judge that was just as ignorant of computers .
I actually lost the law suit but was able to get the court to agree that my punishment was going to be to set the machine back like it was .
In my book that 's not a loss .
It 's what I wanted to do from the start if he did n't like it .
After that I refuse to do anything for anyone that is n't paying me .
No more favors , if any friends , neighbors or family want their computers fixed they can take it to a shop and pay to have it fixed .
Something a lot of computer techs need to learn to do .
When someone asks of you can fix their problem recite , " I really do n't know that much about computers .
" I say this in the mirror from time to time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had an old man that had trouble using computers, always getting viruses and what not.
I installed Ubuntu to head off a lot of these problem but he refused to use it.
He wouldn't even let it boot all the way up.
He saw the splash screen and just turned it off.
Next thing I know I got a request to appear in court in the mail and had to defend my actions to a judge that was just as ignorant of computers.
I actually lost the law suit but was able to get the court to agree that my punishment was going to be to set the machine back like it was.
In my book that's not a loss.
It's what I wanted to do from the start if he didn't like it.
After that I refuse to do anything for anyone that isn't paying me.
No more favors, if any friends, neighbors or family want their computers fixed they can take it to a shop and pay to have it fixed.
Something a lot of computer techs need to learn to do.
When someone asks of you can fix their problem recite, "I really don't know that much about computers.
"

I say this in the mirror from time to time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076618</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>k8to</author>
	<datestamp>1258055280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>False equivalence.<br>Computers aren't as important as lives, but that doesn't mean that systems working is valueless.  It also doesn't mean that it is better to save lives than to keep systems working as choice of occupation.  People have different motivations and goals.</p><p>Sounds like everyone involved should grow up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>False equivalence.Computers are n't as important as lives , but that does n't mean that systems working is valueless .
It also does n't mean that it is better to save lives than to keep systems working as choice of occupation .
People have different motivations and goals.Sounds like everyone involved should grow up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>False equivalence.Computers aren't as important as lives, but that doesn't mean that systems working is valueless.
It also doesn't mean that it is better to save lives than to keep systems working as choice of occupation.
People have different motivations and goals.Sounds like everyone involved should grow up.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30083180</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>temojen</author>
	<datestamp>1258043640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>During an argument my mom once called me a son of a bitch. I agreed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>During an argument my mom once called me a son of a bitch .
I agreed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>During an argument my mom once called me a son of a bitch.
I agreed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077110</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074692</id>
	<title>3 strikes?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258049580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Three offences, and the whole family is off the net.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Three offences , and the whole family is off the net .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Three offences, and the whole family is off the net.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30085552</id>
	<title>My recipe</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258120020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My recipe is using FF with all the most anal adblock lists, Thunderbird in text-only mode for email (for those that don't use gmail), AVG free antivirus and automatic updates on max (e.g. windows/AVG/HP/Firefox/adobe autoupdate without prompting). Works a treat. I don't even remember last time I had to battle a virus on one of those - some years ago probably.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My recipe is using FF with all the most anal adblock lists , Thunderbird in text-only mode for email ( for those that do n't use gmail ) , AVG free antivirus and automatic updates on max ( e.g .
windows/AVG/HP/Firefox/adobe autoupdate without prompting ) .
Works a treat .
I do n't even remember last time I had to battle a virus on one of those - some years ago probably .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My recipe is using FF with all the most anal adblock lists, Thunderbird in text-only mode for email (for those that don't use gmail), AVG free antivirus and automatic updates on max (e.g.
windows/AVG/HP/Firefox/adobe autoupdate without prompting).
Works a treat.
I don't even remember last time I had to battle a virus on one of those - some years ago probably.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30087152</id>
	<title>Re:Install Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258129680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously parent is correct, I have had one of my parents on some form of linux on and off since Mandrivia was Mandrake linux.  Usually what seems to happen is that they get a new computer and it gets messed up with tons of viruses and then I put some form of linux on it, and don't have to do anything until they get a new computer and it gets messed up with tons of viruses.  And these days it is much easier to get something that's pretty rock solid up and working (even with multimedia support, which used to be quite challenging).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously parent is correct , I have had one of my parents on some form of linux on and off since Mandrivia was Mandrake linux .
Usually what seems to happen is that they get a new computer and it gets messed up with tons of viruses and then I put some form of linux on it , and do n't have to do anything until they get a new computer and it gets messed up with tons of viruses .
And these days it is much easier to get something that 's pretty rock solid up and working ( even with multimedia support , which used to be quite challenging ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously parent is correct, I have had one of my parents on some form of linux on and off since Mandrivia was Mandrake linux.
Usually what seems to happen is that they get a new computer and it gets messed up with tons of viruses and then I put some form of linux on it, and don't have to do anything until they get a new computer and it gets messed up with tons of viruses.
And these days it is much easier to get something that's pretty rock solid up and working (even with multimedia support, which used to be quite challenging).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074680</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075208</id>
	<title>Two Different Solutions</title>
	<author>Elegor</author>
	<datestamp>1258050960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I had exactly the same issue with two different family members.  Endless viruses and trojans that no commercial package seemed to be able to avoid or remove properly.<br> <br>

For my parents, I bought an eee box.  They only surf the net using the Splashtop interface, which runs outside of XP (I presume it uses Linux instead).  They haven't suffered a single infection or one bit of slowdown in the past eight months and are absolutely delighted.  The eee box fits nicely to the Vesa bracket on the back of their TV too!<br> <br>

For my sister and her family, I replaced XP on their PC with Ubuntu 9.0.4 (now 9.0.10).  Again, no infections or slowdowns since.  They now have enough confidence in the PC to actually buy stuff online, and like the fact that Open Office is so much better than MS Works.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I had exactly the same issue with two different family members .
Endless viruses and trojans that no commercial package seemed to be able to avoid or remove properly .
For my parents , I bought an eee box .
They only surf the net using the Splashtop interface , which runs outside of XP ( I presume it uses Linux instead ) .
They have n't suffered a single infection or one bit of slowdown in the past eight months and are absolutely delighted .
The eee box fits nicely to the Vesa bracket on the back of their TV too !
For my sister and her family , I replaced XP on their PC with Ubuntu 9.0.4 ( now 9.0.10 ) .
Again , no infections or slowdowns since .
They now have enough confidence in the PC to actually buy stuff online , and like the fact that Open Office is so much better than MS Works .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had exactly the same issue with two different family members.
Endless viruses and trojans that no commercial package seemed to be able to avoid or remove properly.
For my parents, I bought an eee box.
They only surf the net using the Splashtop interface, which runs outside of XP (I presume it uses Linux instead).
They haven't suffered a single infection or one bit of slowdown in the past eight months and are absolutely delighted.
The eee box fits nicely to the Vesa bracket on the back of their TV too!
For my sister and her family, I replaced XP on their PC with Ubuntu 9.0.4 (now 9.0.10).
Again, no infections or slowdowns since.
They now have enough confidence in the PC to actually buy stuff online, and like the fact that Open Office is so much better than MS Works.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30079662</id>
	<title>Tell them you are unable to fix it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258022880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>and they'll have to buy a new one or bring it to a professional. They have no incentive to stop their current behaviour.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>and they 'll have to buy a new one or bring it to a professional .
They have no incentive to stop their current behaviour .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and they'll have to buy a new one or bring it to a professional.
They have no incentive to stop their current behaviour.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075338</id>
	<title>Re:You have the control, so use it!</title>
	<author>metamechanical</author>
	<datestamp>1258051260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Parent makes a good point - you DO have control.  Have you considered making their system into a VM host?  It doesn't matter what you put underneath it - Linux, Windows, whatever - just make sure that it's completely tightened down.  Then, when they screw up their computer *AGAIN*, all it takes is for you to stop by for a visit, back up any critical files, replace their current VM with a clean backup that you made months ago after installing some of the software they use, and letting them have at it?  They don't want to learn, so why not make it easy for yourself?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Parent makes a good point - you DO have control .
Have you considered making their system into a VM host ?
It does n't matter what you put underneath it - Linux , Windows , whatever - just make sure that it 's completely tightened down .
Then , when they screw up their computer * AGAIN * , all it takes is for you to stop by for a visit , back up any critical files , replace their current VM with a clean backup that you made months ago after installing some of the software they use , and letting them have at it ?
They do n't want to learn , so why not make it easy for yourself ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Parent makes a good point - you DO have control.
Have you considered making their system into a VM host?
It doesn't matter what you put underneath it - Linux, Windows, whatever - just make sure that it's completely tightened down.
Then, when they screw up their computer *AGAIN*, all it takes is for you to stop by for a visit, back up any critical files, replace their current VM with a clean backup that you made months ago after installing some of the software they use, and letting them have at it?
They don't want to learn, so why not make it easy for yourself?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074830</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075534</id>
	<title>Have them use a Virtual Machine</title>
	<author>qbantec</author>
	<datestamp>1258051800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>1. Reformat and install xp with just the updates.
2. Remove any shortcuts to IE and don't install any other browser.
3. Make a shared folder on the host machine.  install virtual pc.
5. Install xp on a new vm image.  do all the updates and install all of their software.
6. Create a shortcut to the share on the host.
7. Make a copy of that image.
8. Let the user know that if they want to do anything on the net they need to load the VM. Any files they want saved need to be saved in the shared folder.

This is my setup, I don't run AV software and I visit many questionable sites in my pursuit of knowledge on the net.  My VM stays in fullscreen mode all the time and my gf doesn't even really know the difference.  If I ever feel like my machine is compromised, I revert my VM back to the original.</htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
Reformat and install xp with just the updates .
2. Remove any shortcuts to IE and do n't install any other browser .
3. Make a shared folder on the host machine .
install virtual pc .
5. Install xp on a new vm image .
do all the updates and install all of their software .
6. Create a shortcut to the share on the host .
7. Make a copy of that image .
8. Let the user know that if they want to do anything on the net they need to load the VM .
Any files they want saved need to be saved in the shared folder .
This is my setup , I do n't run AV software and I visit many questionable sites in my pursuit of knowledge on the net .
My VM stays in fullscreen mode all the time and my gf does n't even really know the difference .
If I ever feel like my machine is compromised , I revert my VM back to the original .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.
Reformat and install xp with just the updates.
2. Remove any shortcuts to IE and don't install any other browser.
3. Make a shared folder on the host machine.
install virtual pc.
5. Install xp on a new vm image.
do all the updates and install all of their software.
6. Create a shortcut to the share on the host.
7. Make a copy of that image.
8. Let the user know that if they want to do anything on the net they need to load the VM.
Any files they want saved need to be saved in the shared folder.
This is my setup, I don't run AV software and I visit many questionable sites in my pursuit of knowledge on the net.
My VM stays in fullscreen mode all the time and my gf doesn't even really know the difference.
If I ever feel like my machine is compromised, I revert my VM back to the original.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075902</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>gyrogeerloose</author>
	<datestamp>1258053000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I've come to the point where I simply recommend to family that they buy an Apple, on the security grounds alone. I've pointed a couple of family members to Macbooks, and I get zero calls for help from them after a breaking in period.</p></div><p>Same here. My now 83 year-old father got his first Mac back in the Nineties. I'd get a phone call maybe once a month at first, then e-mails (after he became comfortable with that) every few months. Now that he's had his Mac for a few years, he's started e-mailing me with tips he's discovered on his own. And this is a guy who'd never used anything more complicated than a calculator before buying a Mac.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've come to the point where I simply recommend to family that they buy an Apple , on the security grounds alone .
I 've pointed a couple of family members to Macbooks , and I get zero calls for help from them after a breaking in period.Same here .
My now 83 year-old father got his first Mac back in the Nineties .
I 'd get a phone call maybe once a month at first , then e-mails ( after he became comfortable with that ) every few months .
Now that he 's had his Mac for a few years , he 's started e-mailing me with tips he 's discovered on his own .
And this is a guy who 'd never used anything more complicated than a calculator before buying a Mac .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've come to the point where I simply recommend to family that they buy an Apple, on the security grounds alone.
I've pointed a couple of family members to Macbooks, and I get zero calls for help from them after a breaking in period.Same here.
My now 83 year-old father got his first Mac back in the Nineties.
I'd get a phone call maybe once a month at first, then e-mails (after he became comfortable with that) every few months.
Now that he's had his Mac for a few years, he's started e-mailing me with tips he's discovered on his own.
And this is a guy who'd never used anything more complicated than a calculator before buying a Mac.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074886</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074902</id>
	<title>Do it yourself, maybe...</title>
	<author>SanityInAnarchy</author>
	<datestamp>1258050120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's how I solved it, to the extent that I have. The rules are fairly simple, if a bit brutal:</p><ul> <li>Don't download <b>anything</b> you don't trust. Better yet, don't download anything without asking me first.</li><li>Don't use IE. Ever.</li><li>Keep yourself updated.</li><li>I will support you if and only if you follow these rules.</li></ul><p>The last few times I've rebuilt their computers, I've taken disk images. Another good step to take would be backup -- teach them to burn DVDs if you have to -- as that makes the rebuild easier. But worst case, image the broken machine, restore a known-good image, and restore files (after scanning) from the broken image.</p><p>But the point is, those rules are simple enough that it's not a question of education, it's a question of discipline. And as this isn't a business, you can actually ask them to meet you halfway on that. If they don't, you can simply stop supporting them, or demand that they start paying.</p><p>Think of it this way: If they asked you to come help them move, that's one thing. If they ask you to do that every 4-8 months, sooner or later, you give them the phone number of a local moving company.</p><p>That said, if anyone does find resources like you've asked for (videos, etc), I'd love to know about them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's how I solved it , to the extent that I have .
The rules are fairly simple , if a bit brutal : Do n't download anything you do n't trust .
Better yet , do n't download anything without asking me first.Do n't use IE .
Ever.Keep yourself updated.I will support you if and only if you follow these rules.The last few times I 've rebuilt their computers , I 've taken disk images .
Another good step to take would be backup -- teach them to burn DVDs if you have to -- as that makes the rebuild easier .
But worst case , image the broken machine , restore a known-good image , and restore files ( after scanning ) from the broken image.But the point is , those rules are simple enough that it 's not a question of education , it 's a question of discipline .
And as this is n't a business , you can actually ask them to meet you halfway on that .
If they do n't , you can simply stop supporting them , or demand that they start paying.Think of it this way : If they asked you to come help them move , that 's one thing .
If they ask you to do that every 4-8 months , sooner or later , you give them the phone number of a local moving company.That said , if anyone does find resources like you 've asked for ( videos , etc ) , I 'd love to know about them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's how I solved it, to the extent that I have.
The rules are fairly simple, if a bit brutal: Don't download anything you don't trust.
Better yet, don't download anything without asking me first.Don't use IE.
Ever.Keep yourself updated.I will support you if and only if you follow these rules.The last few times I've rebuilt their computers, I've taken disk images.
Another good step to take would be backup -- teach them to burn DVDs if you have to -- as that makes the rebuild easier.
But worst case, image the broken machine, restore a known-good image, and restore files (after scanning) from the broken image.But the point is, those rules are simple enough that it's not a question of education, it's a question of discipline.
And as this isn't a business, you can actually ask them to meet you halfway on that.
If they don't, you can simply stop supporting them, or demand that they start paying.Think of it this way: If they asked you to come help them move, that's one thing.
If they ask you to do that every 4-8 months, sooner or later, you give them the phone number of a local moving company.That said, if anyone does find resources like you've asked for (videos, etc), I'd love to know about them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075196</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>iamringo</author>
	<datestamp>1258050900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>problem solved..  at least until linux malware becomes prevalent</p></div><p>Agreed. I did this with my 8th grade sister's computer, which was also always full of malware. She hasn't had any problems (either with malware or using Ubuntu) since.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>problem solved.. at least until linux malware becomes prevalentAgreed .
I did this with my 8th grade sister 's computer , which was also always full of malware .
She has n't had any problems ( either with malware or using Ubuntu ) since .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>problem solved..  at least until linux malware becomes prevalentAgreed.
I did this with my 8th grade sister's computer, which was also always full of malware.
She hasn't had any problems (either with malware or using Ubuntu) since.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074684</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</id>
	<title>here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258049520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>get them all macs</htmltext>
<tokenext>get them all macs</tokentext>
<sentencetext>get them all macs</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075756</id>
	<title>Stop the cycle</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258052460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I stopped doing non-business support better than 10 years ago.  I could have worked 24 hours a day, every day and very few of the people asking me for support would have been happy.  It was much better (for me in the short and long run and them in the long run) to tell them that I just didn't have the time to do the work and that they should learn how to fix it or take it somewhere to be fixed.</p><p>That being said, if someone is trying and they need help, I do help them out.</p><p>As for you...<br>1. If you don't have one already get your own computer, so you don't have to deal with their computer to do your thing.<br>2. Give them user accounts, not admin accounts.  If they want admin access to install something, it gives you a little more leverage in asking that they learn more about their computer (or they can wait a couple of days for you to find the time to install it).<br>3. If you haven't already... install anti-virus and anti-malware software.  Look at AVG, MalwareBytes, SpyBot, and Windows Defender.<br>4. Look for ways to keep their computer from killing the network.  Put your own computer in a VLAN separate from theirs so that you have access to the Internet but aren't getting DOSed by theirs.<br>5. Be slower about fixing their computer.  By being a good admin and fixing it immediately, you are training them that they can foul up the computer without repercussions.<br>6. Wean them away from you for tech support.  Is this really something that you want to do for free for the rest of your life?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I stopped doing non-business support better than 10 years ago .
I could have worked 24 hours a day , every day and very few of the people asking me for support would have been happy .
It was much better ( for me in the short and long run and them in the long run ) to tell them that I just did n't have the time to do the work and that they should learn how to fix it or take it somewhere to be fixed.That being said , if someone is trying and they need help , I do help them out.As for you...1 .
If you do n't have one already get your own computer , so you do n't have to deal with their computer to do your thing.2 .
Give them user accounts , not admin accounts .
If they want admin access to install something , it gives you a little more leverage in asking that they learn more about their computer ( or they can wait a couple of days for you to find the time to install it ) .3 .
If you have n't already... install anti-virus and anti-malware software .
Look at AVG , MalwareBytes , SpyBot , and Windows Defender.4 .
Look for ways to keep their computer from killing the network .
Put your own computer in a VLAN separate from theirs so that you have access to the Internet but are n't getting DOSed by theirs.5 .
Be slower about fixing their computer .
By being a good admin and fixing it immediately , you are training them that they can foul up the computer without repercussions.6 .
Wean them away from you for tech support .
Is this really something that you want to do for free for the rest of your life ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I stopped doing non-business support better than 10 years ago.
I could have worked 24 hours a day, every day and very few of the people asking me for support would have been happy.
It was much better (for me in the short and long run and them in the long run) to tell them that I just didn't have the time to do the work and that they should learn how to fix it or take it somewhere to be fixed.That being said, if someone is trying and they need help, I do help them out.As for you...1.
If you don't have one already get your own computer, so you don't have to deal with their computer to do your thing.2.
Give them user accounts, not admin accounts.
If they want admin access to install something, it gives you a little more leverage in asking that they learn more about their computer (or they can wait a couple of days for you to find the time to install it).3.
If you haven't already... install anti-virus and anti-malware software.
Look at AVG, MalwareBytes, SpyBot, and Windows Defender.4.
Look for ways to keep their computer from killing the network.
Put your own computer in a VLAN separate from theirs so that you have access to the Internet but aren't getting DOSed by theirs.5.
Be slower about fixing their computer.
By being a good admin and fixing it immediately, you are training them that they can foul up the computer without repercussions.6.
Wean them away from you for tech support.
Is this really something that you want to do for free for the rest of your life?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075066</id>
	<title>Easy way to not get viruses/spyware</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258050480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Use legal copies of Windows, turn on auto updates, use a decent antivirus, and here's the critical user training:</p><p>Attachments don't only come from friends.<br>Most internet porn has viruses or spyware.<br>Most free music downloads have viruses as well.</p><p>I tried the "Install linux, throw away root password route" and it worked great for an old hippy friend that new nothing of computers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Use legal copies of Windows , turn on auto updates , use a decent antivirus , and here 's the critical user training : Attachments do n't only come from friends.Most internet porn has viruses or spyware.Most free music downloads have viruses as well.I tried the " Install linux , throw away root password route " and it worked great for an old hippy friend that new nothing of computers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Use legal copies of Windows, turn on auto updates, use a decent antivirus, and here's the critical user training:Attachments don't only come from friends.Most internet porn has viruses or spyware.Most free music downloads have viruses as well.I tried the "Install linux, throw away root password route" and it worked great for an old hippy friend that new nothing of computers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075870</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258052940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was going to say this also.  We run it on a few computers in our network, it can be configured to run windows update automatically and apply those patches, while everything else done to the computer disappears when you reboot.  Truly amazing!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was going to say this also .
We run it on a few computers in our network , it can be configured to run windows update automatically and apply those patches , while everything else done to the computer disappears when you reboot .
Truly amazing !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was going to say this also.
We run it on a few computers in our network, it can be configured to run windows update automatically and apply those patches, while everything else done to the computer disappears when you reboot.
Truly amazing!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074676</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30086782</id>
	<title>Re:Lock it down</title>
	<author>Cro Magnon</author>
	<datestamp>1258127820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Or use the guest account feature that clears the profile when the user logs out.</p></div></blockquote><p>Or get a Mac.  But whatever you do, don't do both!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Or use the guest account feature that clears the profile when the user logs out.Or get a Mac .
But whatever you do , do n't do both !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or use the guest account feature that clears the profile when the user logs out.Or get a Mac.
But whatever you do, don't do both!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074926</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30086012</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>The Fun Guy</author>
	<datestamp>1258123980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I did this for an older relative, got her a Mac Mini. It was relatively cheap, as she could keep using her old monitor, keyboard, mouse and printer.</p><p>Yes, her incidence of problems has gone way, way down, and her experience of "things are fine" has gone way, way up.</p><p>But the best part?</p><p>When she does have a problem and calls me? I can say, "Sorry, I don't know anything about Macs. Can't help."</p><p>Priceless.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I did this for an older relative , got her a Mac Mini .
It was relatively cheap , as she could keep using her old monitor , keyboard , mouse and printer.Yes , her incidence of problems has gone way , way down , and her experience of " things are fine " has gone way , way up.But the best part ? When she does have a problem and calls me ?
I can say , " Sorry , I do n't know anything about Macs .
Ca n't help .
" Priceless .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I did this for an older relative, got her a Mac Mini.
It was relatively cheap, as she could keep using her old monitor, keyboard, mouse and printer.Yes, her incidence of problems has gone way, way down, and her experience of "things are fine" has gone way, way up.But the best part?When she does have a problem and calls me?
I can say, "Sorry, I don't know anything about Macs.
Can't help.
"Priceless.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075962</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076222</id>
	<title>Trust no one</title>
	<author>chrysrobyn</author>
	<datestamp>1258054020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sure, you could try to teach the 50 year old dog new tricks, but you got here because [s]he didn't want to learn them in the first place.</p><p>Your choices:</p><p>Prevent any lasting changes.  Live CD-ROM, USB key which is write protected, mounting read-only, etc.  This prohibits bookmarking and the like.  But if all they want is web, maybe it's not a problem.  There are a few caging options that you can use too, that blow away the user id's changes on each log out / shutdown.  As long as they don't need Administrator access, this may be a good option.</p><p>Streamline your install.  Image the hard drive next time you "get it all just right".  Except, repartition your hard drive so your "just right" fits in a second partition.  Boot off a Linux CD, it doesn't really matter which one.  Use dd to copy the raw partition to this new partition.  Next time your family blasts it, boot off CD again, and use dd to copy the raw partition back.  Fixes most problems.  As extra credit, install a very basic (no gui) Linux on that other partition, and fix rc.3 or whatever so that as soon as it boots, it reinitializes the windows drive.  Teach [Mom|Dad] to hit "2" whenever Windows is fucked up so it boots the non-default Linux install and wipes the drive and starts from scratch -- then you never have to be involved except to update the image.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure , you could try to teach the 50 year old dog new tricks , but you got here because [ s ] he did n't want to learn them in the first place.Your choices : Prevent any lasting changes .
Live CD-ROM , USB key which is write protected , mounting read-only , etc .
This prohibits bookmarking and the like .
But if all they want is web , maybe it 's not a problem .
There are a few caging options that you can use too , that blow away the user id 's changes on each log out / shutdown .
As long as they do n't need Administrator access , this may be a good option.Streamline your install .
Image the hard drive next time you " get it all just right " .
Except , repartition your hard drive so your " just right " fits in a second partition .
Boot off a Linux CD , it does n't really matter which one .
Use dd to copy the raw partition to this new partition .
Next time your family blasts it , boot off CD again , and use dd to copy the raw partition back .
Fixes most problems .
As extra credit , install a very basic ( no gui ) Linux on that other partition , and fix rc.3 or whatever so that as soon as it boots , it reinitializes the windows drive .
Teach [ Mom | Dad ] to hit " 2 " whenever Windows is fucked up so it boots the non-default Linux install and wipes the drive and starts from scratch -- then you never have to be involved except to update the image .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure, you could try to teach the 50 year old dog new tricks, but you got here because [s]he didn't want to learn them in the first place.Your choices:Prevent any lasting changes.
Live CD-ROM, USB key which is write protected, mounting read-only, etc.
This prohibits bookmarking and the like.
But if all they want is web, maybe it's not a problem.
There are a few caging options that you can use too, that blow away the user id's changes on each log out / shutdown.
As long as they don't need Administrator access, this may be a good option.Streamline your install.
Image the hard drive next time you "get it all just right".
Except, repartition your hard drive so your "just right" fits in a second partition.
Boot off a Linux CD, it doesn't really matter which one.
Use dd to copy the raw partition to this new partition.
Next time your family blasts it, boot off CD again, and use dd to copy the raw partition back.
Fixes most problems.
As extra credit, install a very basic (no gui) Linux on that other partition, and fix rc.3 or whatever so that as soon as it boots, it reinitializes the windows drive.
Teach [Mom|Dad] to hit "2" whenever Windows is fucked up so it boots the non-default Linux install and wipes the drive and starts from scratch -- then you never have to be involved except to update the image.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078842</id>
	<title>Three things come to mind;</title>
	<author>glaese</author>
	<datestamp>1258020060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>1; Clonezilla, after you set up a system that fits your perception of good, Clone it.

2. PC Backup,

3. Offline updater to be used after a restore from Clonzilla to bring a system backup up to date, <a href="http://knol.google.com/k/joseph-engel/c-t-projekte-offline-updater-ctupdate/3rk3lnsg4vprd/2#" title="google.com" rel="nofollow">http://knol.google.com/k/joseph-engel/c-t-projekte-offline-updater-ctupdate/3rk3lnsg4vprd/2#</a> [google.com]

Naturally, you would want to re-clone after you bring a system up to date after applying a cloned image<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</htmltext>
<tokenext>1 ; Clonezilla , after you set up a system that fits your perception of good , Clone it .
2. PC Backup , 3 .
Offline updater to be used after a restore from Clonzilla to bring a system backup up to date , http : //knol.google.com/k/joseph-engel/c-t-projekte-offline-updater-ctupdate/3rk3lnsg4vprd/2 # [ google.com ] Naturally , you would want to re-clone after you bring a system up to date after applying a cloned image : - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1; Clonezilla, after you set up a system that fits your perception of good, Clone it.
2. PC Backup,

3.
Offline updater to be used after a restore from Clonzilla to bring a system backup up to date, http://knol.google.com/k/joseph-engel/c-t-projekte-offline-updater-ctupdate/3rk3lnsg4vprd/2# [google.com]

Naturally, you would want to re-clone after you bring a system up to date after applying a cloned image :-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077000</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>sootman</author>
	<datestamp>1258056660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, we will hear that... BECAUSE IT'S TRUE. Not ONE serious widespread virus in the wild IN THE EIGHT+ YEAR HISTORY of the operating system. The only reason I have to qualify that statement AT ALL is because yes, there are a couple trojans. But NOTHING like Windows. There are NOT a million drive-by downloads, self-spreading worms, or a bunch of malware-infested crappy freeware apps like Windows has.</p><p>Is it because it's a better OS? Smaller market share? Lazy virus writers that's can't be bothered to learn to use XCode? WHO CARES!!! The fact is it's NOT a problem right now. Maybe it will be someday. I'll worry about it then. In the meantime, I'm enjoying my near-DECADE of peaceful, pleasant, safe computing.* If you can afford it, it's a great way to go.</p><p>Note: Linux is also very good in this regard. But the parent was talking about Macs.</p><p>* I, along with plenty of other readers here, can, and have, used Windows boxes without viruses for years. But this thread isn't about what's POSSIBLE for someone who is smart and cares--it's about what DOES HAPPEN to users who AREN'T and DON'T.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , we will hear that... BECAUSE IT 'S TRUE .
Not ONE serious widespread virus in the wild IN THE EIGHT + YEAR HISTORY of the operating system .
The only reason I have to qualify that statement AT ALL is because yes , there are a couple trojans .
But NOTHING like Windows .
There are NOT a million drive-by downloads , self-spreading worms , or a bunch of malware-infested crappy freeware apps like Windows has.Is it because it 's a better OS ?
Smaller market share ?
Lazy virus writers that 's ca n't be bothered to learn to use XCode ?
WHO CARES ! ! !
The fact is it 's NOT a problem right now .
Maybe it will be someday .
I 'll worry about it then .
In the meantime , I 'm enjoying my near-DECADE of peaceful , pleasant , safe computing .
* If you can afford it , it 's a great way to go.Note : Linux is also very good in this regard .
But the parent was talking about Macs .
* I , along with plenty of other readers here , can , and have , used Windows boxes without viruses for years .
But this thread is n't about what 's POSSIBLE for someone who is smart and cares--it 's about what DOES HAPPEN to users who ARE N'T and DO N'T .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, we will hear that... BECAUSE IT'S TRUE.
Not ONE serious widespread virus in the wild IN THE EIGHT+ YEAR HISTORY of the operating system.
The only reason I have to qualify that statement AT ALL is because yes, there are a couple trojans.
But NOTHING like Windows.
There are NOT a million drive-by downloads, self-spreading worms, or a bunch of malware-infested crappy freeware apps like Windows has.Is it because it's a better OS?
Smaller market share?
Lazy virus writers that's can't be bothered to learn to use XCode?
WHO CARES!!!
The fact is it's NOT a problem right now.
Maybe it will be someday.
I'll worry about it then.
In the meantime, I'm enjoying my near-DECADE of peaceful, pleasant, safe computing.
* If you can afford it, it's a great way to go.Note: Linux is also very good in this regard.
But the parent was talking about Macs.
* I, along with plenty of other readers here, can, and have, used Windows boxes without viruses for years.
But this thread isn't about what's POSSIBLE for someone who is smart and cares--it's about what DOES HAPPEN to users who AREN'T and DON'T.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074684</id>
	<title>just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258049520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>problem solved..  at least until linux malware becomes prevalent</htmltext>
<tokenext>problem solved.. at least until linux malware becomes prevalent</tokentext>
<sentencetext>problem solved..  at least until linux malware becomes prevalent</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074720</id>
	<title>Install Ubuntu, problem solved.</title>
	<author>OFnow</author>
	<datestamp>1258049640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not so difficult, really. Install Ubuntu 9.10.  Problem solved.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not so difficult , really .
Install Ubuntu 9.10 .
Problem solved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not so difficult, really.
Install Ubuntu 9.10.
Problem solved.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075568</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258051860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In my experience, it is not an issue of easy-to-digest material, and explanations that they understand.  It's a hard mental block.  I've been in the same cycle for 10+ years, and my parents have said, flat out, they they "just can't learn".  I've tried written, step-by-step instructions; I've tried demonstrating; I've tried tutorials.  It's not the information or how it is presented.  It's a mental block about learning new things.</p><p> <i>(...)</i> </p><p>What really gets me angry is that they are helpless to do anything in their daily lives without their computer, and blame me for that fact (Cause *I* created all malware and put it on their computer, clearly), while simultaneously ridiculing my choice of career as worthless, because "technology is not important".  The irony is lost on them.  Completely.</p></div><p>Okay, dude, I hate to comment on other people's personal lives, but.... If your parents are ridiculing, blaming, and refusing to listen to you, I think you've got bigger problems than one mere "hard mental block".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In my experience , it is not an issue of easy-to-digest material , and explanations that they understand .
It 's a hard mental block .
I 've been in the same cycle for 10 + years , and my parents have said , flat out , they they " just ca n't learn " .
I 've tried written , step-by-step instructions ; I 've tried demonstrating ; I 've tried tutorials .
It 's not the information or how it is presented .
It 's a mental block about learning new things .
( ... ) What really gets me angry is that they are helpless to do anything in their daily lives without their computer , and blame me for that fact ( Cause * I * created all malware and put it on their computer , clearly ) , while simultaneously ridiculing my choice of career as worthless , because " technology is not important " .
The irony is lost on them .
Completely.Okay , dude , I hate to comment on other people 's personal lives , but.... If your parents are ridiculing , blaming , and refusing to listen to you , I think you 've got bigger problems than one mere " hard mental block " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my experience, it is not an issue of easy-to-digest material, and explanations that they understand.
It's a hard mental block.
I've been in the same cycle for 10+ years, and my parents have said, flat out, they they "just can't learn".
I've tried written, step-by-step instructions; I've tried demonstrating; I've tried tutorials.
It's not the information or how it is presented.
It's a mental block about learning new things.
(...) What really gets me angry is that they are helpless to do anything in their daily lives without their computer, and blame me for that fact (Cause *I* created all malware and put it on their computer, clearly), while simultaneously ridiculing my choice of career as worthless, because "technology is not important".
The irony is lost on them.
Completely.Okay, dude, I hate to comment on other people's personal lives, but.... If your parents are ridiculing, blaming, and refusing to listen to you, I think you've got bigger problems than one mere "hard mental block".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074816</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30085056</id>
	<title>Linux + VMware</title>
	<author>jandersen</author>
	<datestamp>1258113420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My solution is crude and simple:</p><p>1. Install Linux at all machines<br>2. Install VMware<br>3. Install whichever OS in a virtual machine.<br>4. Make a backup copy of it in a safe place<br>5. Let people use the virtual machine, but don't let them use the base OS<br>6. Make sure that all essential data - documents, whatever - are always on a networked disk</p><p>- when they screw up, simply copy from backup. Not perfect, but it is amazing how much hassle it has saved me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My solution is crude and simple : 1 .
Install Linux at all machines2 .
Install VMware3 .
Install whichever OS in a virtual machine.4 .
Make a backup copy of it in a safe place5 .
Let people use the virtual machine , but do n't let them use the base OS6 .
Make sure that all essential data - documents , whatever - are always on a networked disk- when they screw up , simply copy from backup .
Not perfect , but it is amazing how much hassle it has saved me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My solution is crude and simple:1.
Install Linux at all machines2.
Install VMware3.
Install whichever OS in a virtual machine.4.
Make a backup copy of it in a safe place5.
Let people use the virtual machine, but don't let them use the base OS6.
Make sure that all essential data - documents, whatever - are always on a networked disk- when they screw up, simply copy from backup.
Not perfect, but it is amazing how much hassle it has saved me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30082370</id>
	<title>Re:Oblig. XKCD</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258036620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Mod parent to +6 and close the thread. I came here to post the same xkcd.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mod parent to + 6 and close the thread .
I came here to post the same xkcd .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mod parent to +6 and close the thread.
I came here to post the same xkcd.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074898</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074936</id>
	<title>Possible Solution</title>
	<author>xixinconnu</author>
	<datestamp>1258050180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was in a similar situation with some of my grandparents, I eventually gave up on trying to teach them and just created a simple ubuntu virtual machine that was just a web browser, set them up using delicious for all their bookmarks and had the virtual machine not save any changes when it closed out. That way each time they start it up it is fresh like the day it was created. Took a little bit of extra work to get it all set up but this way their core machine is some what safe from their internet travels.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was in a similar situation with some of my grandparents , I eventually gave up on trying to teach them and just created a simple ubuntu virtual machine that was just a web browser , set them up using delicious for all their bookmarks and had the virtual machine not save any changes when it closed out .
That way each time they start it up it is fresh like the day it was created .
Took a little bit of extra work to get it all set up but this way their core machine is some what safe from their internet travels .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was in a similar situation with some of my grandparents, I eventually gave up on trying to teach them and just created a simple ubuntu virtual machine that was just a web browser, set them up using delicious for all their bookmarks and had the virtual machine not save any changes when it closed out.
That way each time they start it up it is fresh like the day it was created.
Took a little bit of extra work to get it all set up but this way their core machine is some what safe from their internet travels.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076986</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>AMuse</author>
	<datestamp>1258056600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sounds like you both enjoy poking fun at each other and bickering about inconsequential things.  Assuming this doesn't rise to the level of genuine arguments (like couch guy below) I say it sounds like a normal and healthy relationship.   Just thought you might appreciate the thought after all the other comments soon to follow.</p><p>(5 year wedding anniversary 2 weeks ago, goin' on 9 years together, bicker like it's been 80)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds like you both enjoy poking fun at each other and bickering about inconsequential things .
Assuming this does n't rise to the level of genuine arguments ( like couch guy below ) I say it sounds like a normal and healthy relationship .
Just thought you might appreciate the thought after all the other comments soon to follow .
( 5 year wedding anniversary 2 weeks ago , goin ' on 9 years together , bicker like it 's been 80 )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds like you both enjoy poking fun at each other and bickering about inconsequential things.
Assuming this doesn't rise to the level of genuine arguments (like couch guy below) I say it sounds like a normal and healthy relationship.
Just thought you might appreciate the thought after all the other comments soon to follow.
(5 year wedding anniversary 2 weeks ago, goin' on 9 years together, bicker like it's been 80)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30086472</id>
	<title>Always use Protection</title>
	<author>gcatullus</author>
	<datestamp>1258126440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Always Use Protection: A Teen's Guide to Safe Computing by Dan Appleman - This book is geared to teenagers, and it is a bit old, but it explains things very easily and hammers home the simple lessons, like Don't open attachments etc. It isn't too preachy, but it gets the message across.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Always Use Protection : A Teen 's Guide to Safe Computing by Dan Appleman - This book is geared to teenagers , and it is a bit old , but it explains things very easily and hammers home the simple lessons , like Do n't open attachments etc .
It is n't too preachy , but it gets the message across .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Always Use Protection: A Teen's Guide to Safe Computing by Dan Appleman - This book is geared to teenagers, and it is a bit old, but it explains things very easily and hammers home the simple lessons, like Don't open attachments etc.
It isn't too preachy, but it gets the message across.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076296</id>
	<title>Say No</title>
	<author>mardukvmbc</author>
	<datestamp>1258054260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Say "No" gracefully.<br>My strategy in my household: All 3 systems run Ubuntu. 5 users, some  4 years old. Only I have admin. Problem solved.</p><p>In the office I'm forced to use XP. However most of the extended family now has issues with Vista... and since I've never run it I can quite honestly say that I have no idea how to fix a Vista machine. So, I say as gently as possible: "I can't help you."</p><p>For the ones I have a real soft spot for, like my mom:<br>- XP machine isn't running any non-licensed software. No WGA hassles (hopefully!)<br>- AVG installed &amp; autoupdates.<br>- Windows autoupdates.<br>- Firewall enabled.<br>- Behind a cheap $20 router (surprising how much this helps)<br>- Use only FF (hid the IE icon and warned her about using it)... make sure you set FF to the default browser.<br>- As little local apps as possible... only openoffice and picasa.<br>- She doesn't get an admin account. Only myself and my brother in law do.</p><p>Surprisingly, the only time I've had to fix it is when my 14 year old nephew was on the box trying to install some hacked game he downloaded...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Say " No " gracefully.My strategy in my household : All 3 systems run Ubuntu .
5 users , some 4 years old .
Only I have admin .
Problem solved.In the office I 'm forced to use XP .
However most of the extended family now has issues with Vista... and since I 've never run it I can quite honestly say that I have no idea how to fix a Vista machine .
So , I say as gently as possible : " I ca n't help you .
" For the ones I have a real soft spot for , like my mom : - XP machine is n't running any non-licensed software .
No WGA hassles ( hopefully !
) - AVG installed &amp; autoupdates.- Windows autoupdates.- Firewall enabled.- Behind a cheap $ 20 router ( surprising how much this helps ) - Use only FF ( hid the IE icon and warned her about using it ) ... make sure you set FF to the default browser.- As little local apps as possible... only openoffice and picasa.- She does n't get an admin account .
Only myself and my brother in law do.Surprisingly , the only time I 've had to fix it is when my 14 year old nephew was on the box trying to install some hacked game he downloaded.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Say "No" gracefully.My strategy in my household: All 3 systems run Ubuntu.
5 users, some  4 years old.
Only I have admin.
Problem solved.In the office I'm forced to use XP.
However most of the extended family now has issues with Vista... and since I've never run it I can quite honestly say that I have no idea how to fix a Vista machine.
So, I say as gently as possible: "I can't help you.
"For the ones I have a real soft spot for, like my mom:- XP machine isn't running any non-licensed software.
No WGA hassles (hopefully!
)- AVG installed &amp; autoupdates.- Windows autoupdates.- Firewall enabled.- Behind a cheap $20 router (surprising how much this helps)- Use only FF (hid the IE icon and warned her about using it)... make sure you set FF to the default browser.- As little local apps as possible... only openoffice and picasa.- She doesn't get an admin account.
Only myself and my brother in law do.Surprisingly, the only time I've had to fix it is when my 14 year old nephew was on the box trying to install some hacked game he downloaded...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076566</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>the\_womble</author>
	<datestamp>1258055100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Same with my wife and daughter using Linux.</p><p>I am teaching the 6 year old to install software, not something I would dare do on Windows - installing stuff with Synaptic is not going to cause security problems.</p><p>Not all OSes are suitable for naive users, and no OS is suitable for naive users to have root on any OS unless they are willing to do what they are told and stick to rules.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Same with my wife and daughter using Linux.I am teaching the 6 year old to install software , not something I would dare do on Windows - installing stuff with Synaptic is not going to cause security problems.Not all OSes are suitable for naive users , and no OS is suitable for naive users to have root on any OS unless they are willing to do what they are told and stick to rules .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Same with my wife and daughter using Linux.I am teaching the 6 year old to install software, not something I would dare do on Windows - installing stuff with Synaptic is not going to cause security problems.Not all OSes are suitable for naive users, and no OS is suitable for naive users to have root on any OS unless they are willing to do what they are told and stick to rules.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075962</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076436</id>
	<title>Relatives don't let...</title>
	<author>Jinjuku</author>
	<datestamp>1258054620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Relatives don't let relatives run as Administrators. Run as a user/restricted user. Lot's of problems solved.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Relatives do n't let relatives run as Administrators .
Run as a user/restricted user .
Lot 's of problems solved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Relatives don't let relatives run as Administrators.
Run as a user/restricted user.
Lot's of problems solved.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078436</id>
	<title>Re:The last time I had this problem...</title>
	<author>confused one</author>
	<datestamp>1258018620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It sounds like you didn't get his approval first.  Even if you did this as a favor, from a strictly business point of view you destroyed value when you removed his legally purchased and installed copy of Windows and replaced it with something else.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It sounds like you did n't get his approval first .
Even if you did this as a favor , from a strictly business point of view you destroyed value when you removed his legally purchased and installed copy of Windows and replaced it with something else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It sounds like you didn't get his approval first.
Even if you did this as a favor, from a strictly business point of view you destroyed value when you removed his legally purchased and installed copy of Windows and replaced it with something else.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074896</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075264</id>
	<title>Re:The butterfly Parable</title>
	<author>hatemonger</author>
	<datestamp>1258051020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The problem with the analogy is that these butterflies are too lazy and uninterested to emerge from their cocoon. (Not an insult; they feel they have more important things to focus on than learning about computers)</htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem with the analogy is that these butterflies are too lazy and uninterested to emerge from their cocoon .
( Not an insult ; they feel they have more important things to focus on than learning about computers )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem with the analogy is that these butterflies are too lazy and uninterested to emerge from their cocoon.
(Not an insult; they feel they have more important things to focus on than learning about computers)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30083608</id>
	<title>Lock down their PC</title>
	<author>aldld</author>
	<datestamp>1258048440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Create a separate administrator account and give them normal user priviliges, or whatever it's called on Windows. And just don't tell them the admin password.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Create a separate administrator account and give them normal user priviliges , or whatever it 's called on Windows .
And just do n't tell them the admin password .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Create a separate administrator account and give them normal user priviliges, or whatever it's called on Windows.
And just don't tell them the admin password.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077034</id>
	<title>they're perfectly happy w/ our current arrangement</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258056720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Of course they are! They have nothing to worry about. They don't HAVE to be careful.</p><p>First, they probably use IE. STOP.<br>Don't let them do this. Find a safer alternative. In this instance, I'd recommend Firefox.<br>I would then suggest you add in Ad-Block, Flash Blocker, and NoScript. That should do well to keep them pretty safe as they go around the web. Those 3 things I couldn't be without, personally. Last time I tried IE, I saw a quick popup come up that looked like a Windows dialog, that was just itching for me to click the button. Ugh.</p><p>Also, give them limited accounts. A lot of things need administrator privileges to run, so that's just another layer of protection that could help. If they want to install something, have them call you. This may also help them stop downloading random programs, like toolbars or free smileys or "free" games that come with<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... unwanted extras.</p><p>An antivirus program, and firewall, would also be good choices, but you would want something that's... unobtrusive and user-friendly (noob-friendly). Many people would just allow everything, as it seems they currently are in your case.</p><p>You can tell them to not do something, but often, and sometimes without even thinkign about it, they'll do it anyways. Click a link in MSN/AIM, click on a pop-up window, download free smilies, whatever. And once that's done, its lights out.</p><p>Maybe if you charge the next time, after that they may be more reluctant to be so willy nilly. If they know their actions carry consequences...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course they are !
They have nothing to worry about .
They do n't HAVE to be careful.First , they probably use IE .
STOP.Do n't let them do this .
Find a safer alternative .
In this instance , I 'd recommend Firefox.I would then suggest you add in Ad-Block , Flash Blocker , and NoScript .
That should do well to keep them pretty safe as they go around the web .
Those 3 things I could n't be without , personally .
Last time I tried IE , I saw a quick popup come up that looked like a Windows dialog , that was just itching for me to click the button .
Ugh.Also , give them limited accounts .
A lot of things need administrator privileges to run , so that 's just another layer of protection that could help .
If they want to install something , have them call you .
This may also help them stop downloading random programs , like toolbars or free smileys or " free " games that come with .... unwanted extras.An antivirus program , and firewall , would also be good choices , but you would want something that 's... unobtrusive and user-friendly ( noob-friendly ) .
Many people would just allow everything , as it seems they currently are in your case.You can tell them to not do something , but often , and sometimes without even thinkign about it , they 'll do it anyways .
Click a link in MSN/AIM , click on a pop-up window , download free smilies , whatever .
And once that 's done , its lights out.Maybe if you charge the next time , after that they may be more reluctant to be so willy nilly .
If they know their actions carry consequences.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course they are!
They have nothing to worry about.
They don't HAVE to be careful.First, they probably use IE.
STOP.Don't let them do this.
Find a safer alternative.
In this instance, I'd recommend Firefox.I would then suggest you add in Ad-Block, Flash Blocker, and NoScript.
That should do well to keep them pretty safe as they go around the web.
Those 3 things I couldn't be without, personally.
Last time I tried IE, I saw a quick popup come up that looked like a Windows dialog, that was just itching for me to click the button.
Ugh.Also, give them limited accounts.
A lot of things need administrator privileges to run, so that's just another layer of protection that could help.
If they want to install something, have them call you.
This may also help them stop downloading random programs, like toolbars or free smileys or "free" games that come with .... unwanted extras.An antivirus program, and firewall, would also be good choices, but you would want something that's... unobtrusive and user-friendly (noob-friendly).
Many people would just allow everything, as it seems they currently are in your case.You can tell them to not do something, but often, and sometimes without even thinkign about it, they'll do it anyways.
Click a link in MSN/AIM, click on a pop-up window, download free smilies, whatever.
And once that's done, its lights out.Maybe if you charge the next time, after that they may be more reluctant to be so willy nilly.
If they know their actions carry consequences...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30084336</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258144620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Amen! after years of fixing my parents and sister computer I finally convinced them to get a Mac. That was tree years ago, not a problem since.</p><p>One day I get one for myself too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Amen !
after years of fixing my parents and sister computer I finally convinced them to get a Mac .
That was tree years ago , not a problem since.One day I get one for myself too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Amen!
after years of fixing my parents and sister computer I finally convinced them to get a Mac.
That was tree years ago, not a problem since.One day I get one for myself too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074754</id>
	<title>The butterfly Parable</title>
	<author>Martin Spamer</author>
	<datestamp>1258049760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>An insight into Mentoring &amp; coaching</p><p>One day a man finds a cocoon for a butterfly with a small opening, he sits and watches the butterfly for several hours as it struggled to force its body through the little hole. Then it seemed to stop making any progress. It appeared stuck.</p><p>The man decided to help the butterfly and with a pair of scissors he cut open the cocoon. The butterfly emerges easily, but something was strange. The butterfly had a swollen body and shrivelled wings. The man watched the butterfly expecting it to take on its correct proportions. But nothing changed.</p><p>The butterfly stayed the same. It was never able to fly. In his kindness and haste the man did not realise that the butterfly's struggle to get through the small opening of the cocoon is nature's way of forcing fluid from the body of the butterfly into its wings so that it would be ready for flight.</p><p>Like the sapling which grows strong from being buffeted by the wind, in life we all need to struggle sometimes to make us strong.</p><p>When we coach others it is helpful to recognize when people need to do things for themselves.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>An insight into Mentoring &amp; coachingOne day a man finds a cocoon for a butterfly with a small opening , he sits and watches the butterfly for several hours as it struggled to force its body through the little hole .
Then it seemed to stop making any progress .
It appeared stuck.The man decided to help the butterfly and with a pair of scissors he cut open the cocoon .
The butterfly emerges easily , but something was strange .
The butterfly had a swollen body and shrivelled wings .
The man watched the butterfly expecting it to take on its correct proportions .
But nothing changed.The butterfly stayed the same .
It was never able to fly .
In his kindness and haste the man did not realise that the butterfly 's struggle to get through the small opening of the cocoon is nature 's way of forcing fluid from the body of the butterfly into its wings so that it would be ready for flight.Like the sapling which grows strong from being buffeted by the wind , in life we all need to struggle sometimes to make us strong.When we coach others it is helpful to recognize when people need to do things for themselves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An insight into Mentoring &amp; coachingOne day a man finds a cocoon for a butterfly with a small opening, he sits and watches the butterfly for several hours as it struggled to force its body through the little hole.
Then it seemed to stop making any progress.
It appeared stuck.The man decided to help the butterfly and with a pair of scissors he cut open the cocoon.
The butterfly emerges easily, but something was strange.
The butterfly had a swollen body and shrivelled wings.
The man watched the butterfly expecting it to take on its correct proportions.
But nothing changed.The butterfly stayed the same.
It was never able to fly.
In his kindness and haste the man did not realise that the butterfly's struggle to get through the small opening of the cocoon is nature's way of forcing fluid from the body of the butterfly into its wings so that it would be ready for flight.Like the sapling which grows strong from being buffeted by the wind, in life we all need to struggle sometimes to make us strong.When we coach others it is helpful to recognize when people need to do things for themselves.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075298</id>
	<title>Re:The butterfly Parable</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258051140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So you're saying that the next time Mom asks for tech support, he should bind her up in duct tape, leaving a little hole and saying "fight your way out Mom!  It will do you good!"</p><p>While amusing, I don't think that would really solve her or his problems.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So you 're saying that the next time Mom asks for tech support , he should bind her up in duct tape , leaving a little hole and saying " fight your way out Mom !
It will do you good !
" While amusing , I do n't think that would really solve her or his problems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So you're saying that the next time Mom asks for tech support, he should bind her up in duct tape, leaving a little hole and saying "fight your way out Mom!
It will do you good!
"While amusing, I don't think that would really solve her or his problems.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076864</id>
	<title>Get them off porn sites and lock the computer down</title>
	<author>penguin\_dance</author>
	<datestamp>1258056120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First of all tell dad (and the 26 year old, if male) to stay the hell away from the porn sites. (That should make your mom more vigilant if she's in the picture.) Viruses generally come from 3 things: Porn sites, Warez sites and emails from idiot friends who also don't know any better. Make sure they have a firewall and a virus that scans and updates daily. Make sure the virus checker is set to automatically either heal or move the file to quarantine. Make sure the virus checker can't be shut down without a password (which only you know). Just in case family wants to turn it off because it's interrupting their browsing. I'm not sure what OS you have, but there are ways to prevent people from installing any software unless you the admin. They do this all the time in business. That might be the best way to prevent stuff getting on there, although it will annoy the hell out of everyone and they will want you to come over and install stuff every time they get an new program.</p><p>Get some type of parent block up for the nine year-old. I would create a separate login for everyone.  That will also let you know who the real culprit(s) are!</p><p>Once you get the computer up and running make an image of the hard drive. Let them know that you will NOT be trying to non-destructive fix it next time. You'll just re-image it and bye-bye to their files. And stick to it. There's helping family, but I think the problem is more that they know you'll work your ass off to fix things and so any advice you give them will go in one ear and out the other. I can promise you that will happen anyway with the 9 year-old. Even if you do try to explain viruses and not to open attachments, etc., chances are they're not going to remember anything you said after you leave.</p><p>I have an 83 year-old mom who surfs the net. Even she doesn't get viruses or malware, not to mention the amount your family's getting. They're going places they don't need to be going. Even with mom, I have to watch. One day she told me she had a Google email account. I asked her why. She didn't know why she needed it--it turns out DirecTV "told her to" (I'm sure what they were actually saying was you could get a free email account if you didn't have one.)</p><p>It's tempting to say, "If DirecTV told you to jump off a cliff, would you do it...." But I didn't...she has a cane, after all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First of all tell dad ( and the 26 year old , if male ) to stay the hell away from the porn sites .
( That should make your mom more vigilant if she 's in the picture .
) Viruses generally come from 3 things : Porn sites , Warez sites and emails from idiot friends who also do n't know any better .
Make sure they have a firewall and a virus that scans and updates daily .
Make sure the virus checker is set to automatically either heal or move the file to quarantine .
Make sure the virus checker ca n't be shut down without a password ( which only you know ) .
Just in case family wants to turn it off because it 's interrupting their browsing .
I 'm not sure what OS you have , but there are ways to prevent people from installing any software unless you the admin .
They do this all the time in business .
That might be the best way to prevent stuff getting on there , although it will annoy the hell out of everyone and they will want you to come over and install stuff every time they get an new program.Get some type of parent block up for the nine year-old .
I would create a separate login for everyone .
That will also let you know who the real culprit ( s ) are ! Once you get the computer up and running make an image of the hard drive .
Let them know that you will NOT be trying to non-destructive fix it next time .
You 'll just re-image it and bye-bye to their files .
And stick to it .
There 's helping family , but I think the problem is more that they know you 'll work your ass off to fix things and so any advice you give them will go in one ear and out the other .
I can promise you that will happen anyway with the 9 year-old .
Even if you do try to explain viruses and not to open attachments , etc. , chances are they 're not going to remember anything you said after you leave.I have an 83 year-old mom who surfs the net .
Even she does n't get viruses or malware , not to mention the amount your family 's getting .
They 're going places they do n't need to be going .
Even with mom , I have to watch .
One day she told me she had a Google email account .
I asked her why .
She did n't know why she needed it--it turns out DirecTV " told her to " ( I 'm sure what they were actually saying was you could get a free email account if you did n't have one .
) It 's tempting to say , " If DirecTV told you to jump off a cliff , would you do it.... " But I did n't...she has a cane , after all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First of all tell dad (and the 26 year old, if male) to stay the hell away from the porn sites.
(That should make your mom more vigilant if she's in the picture.
) Viruses generally come from 3 things: Porn sites, Warez sites and emails from idiot friends who also don't know any better.
Make sure they have a firewall and a virus that scans and updates daily.
Make sure the virus checker is set to automatically either heal or move the file to quarantine.
Make sure the virus checker can't be shut down without a password (which only you know).
Just in case family wants to turn it off because it's interrupting their browsing.
I'm not sure what OS you have, but there are ways to prevent people from installing any software unless you the admin.
They do this all the time in business.
That might be the best way to prevent stuff getting on there, although it will annoy the hell out of everyone and they will want you to come over and install stuff every time they get an new program.Get some type of parent block up for the nine year-old.
I would create a separate login for everyone.
That will also let you know who the real culprit(s) are!Once you get the computer up and running make an image of the hard drive.
Let them know that you will NOT be trying to non-destructive fix it next time.
You'll just re-image it and bye-bye to their files.
And stick to it.
There's helping family, but I think the problem is more that they know you'll work your ass off to fix things and so any advice you give them will go in one ear and out the other.
I can promise you that will happen anyway with the 9 year-old.
Even if you do try to explain viruses and not to open attachments, etc., chances are they're not going to remember anything you said after you leave.I have an 83 year-old mom who surfs the net.
Even she doesn't get viruses or malware, not to mention the amount your family's getting.
They're going places they don't need to be going.
Even with mom, I have to watch.
One day she told me she had a Google email account.
I asked her why.
She didn't know why she needed it--it turns out DirecTV "told her to" (I'm sure what they were actually saying was you could get a free email account if you didn't have one.
)It's tempting to say, "If DirecTV told you to jump off a cliff, would you do it...." But I didn't...she has a cane, after all.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076254</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258054140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do yourself, and her, a favor.  Leave her now.  Certainly don't consider marriage.</p><p>(I've been married 30 years, and still happy about it.  Both will change if and when my wife starts belittling my technical expertise and career choice.  In my case, wife is an RN - and through my instruction is her own level of tech support in her unit in the Hospital...)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do yourself , and her , a favor .
Leave her now .
Certainly do n't consider marriage .
( I 've been married 30 years , and still happy about it .
Both will change if and when my wife starts belittling my technical expertise and career choice .
In my case , wife is an RN - and through my instruction is her own level of tech support in her unit in the Hospital... )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do yourself, and her, a favor.
Leave her now.
Certainly don't consider marriage.
(I've been married 30 years, and still happy about it.
Both will change if and when my wife starts belittling my technical expertise and career choice.
In my case, wife is an RN - and through my instruction is her own level of tech support in her unit in the Hospital...)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075748</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258052460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I hear you!<br>As a comp sci major I'm the family geek, doing a subject that "won't mean anything in the future" - lol?<br>yet anything goes wrong and i get a call asking how to fix it, living 300 miles away @ uni, this expectation is over the phone... (usually an internet problem so remote desktop is out)<br>totally agree about this being a cultural issue not technical. There not unintelligent people, just have an apparent unwillingness to learn/understand<br>I really don't know what the solution is - I usually do a complete reformat (with backup, eugh) on each family computer each time I'm back at home for holidays, its the only I've found to truly work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I hear you ! As a comp sci major I 'm the family geek , doing a subject that " wo n't mean anything in the future " - lol ? yet anything goes wrong and i get a call asking how to fix it , living 300 miles away @ uni , this expectation is over the phone... ( usually an internet problem so remote desktop is out ) totally agree about this being a cultural issue not technical .
There not unintelligent people , just have an apparent unwillingness to learn/understandI really do n't know what the solution is - I usually do a complete reformat ( with backup , eugh ) on each family computer each time I 'm back at home for holidays , its the only I 've found to truly work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hear you!As a comp sci major I'm the family geek, doing a subject that "won't mean anything in the future" - lol?yet anything goes wrong and i get a call asking how to fix it, living 300 miles away @ uni, this expectation is over the phone... (usually an internet problem so remote desktop is out)totally agree about this being a cultural issue not technical.
There not unintelligent people, just have an apparent unwillingness to learn/understandI really don't know what the solution is - I usually do a complete reformat (with backup, eugh) on each family computer each time I'm back at home for holidays, its the only I've found to truly work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074816</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076328</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>R2.0</author>
	<datestamp>1258054320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your parents can't stand the fact that you can do something that they can't, and therefore have a measure of power and control over their lives.  The belittlement is their way of pretending that's not true.</p><p>Buy a copy of Win7, reformat the drive, and then hand it to them and say "I'm not touching your computer anymore.  You do it."  And when they don't invite you to Thanksgiving, savor the sweet bliss of a holiday NOT fixing their machine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your parents ca n't stand the fact that you can do something that they ca n't , and therefore have a measure of power and control over their lives .
The belittlement is their way of pretending that 's not true.Buy a copy of Win7 , reformat the drive , and then hand it to them and say " I 'm not touching your computer anymore .
You do it .
" And when they do n't invite you to Thanksgiving , savor the sweet bliss of a holiday NOT fixing their machine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your parents can't stand the fact that you can do something that they can't, and therefore have a measure of power and control over their lives.
The belittlement is their way of pretending that's not true.Buy a copy of Win7, reformat the drive, and then hand it to them and say "I'm not touching your computer anymore.
You do it.
"  And when they don't invite you to Thanksgiving, savor the sweet bliss of a holiday NOT fixing their machine.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074816</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30087060</id>
	<title>Why Bother?</title>
	<author>nbacon</author>
	<datestamp>1258129200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It would be fairly simple to create a partition with an OS image that you could kick off on a schedule.  Resetting the system back to known good in less than an hour.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It would be fairly simple to create a partition with an OS image that you could kick off on a schedule .
Resetting the system back to known good in less than an hour .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It would be fairly simple to create a partition with an OS image that you could kick off on a schedule.
Resetting the system back to known good in less than an hour.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077666</id>
	<title>Re:live cd backup</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258059000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's called ghost. You're suggesting he clone an image of the drive. It's a great idea, and one he should use.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's called ghost .
You 're suggesting he clone an image of the drive .
It 's a great idea , and one he should use .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's called ghost.
You're suggesting he clone an image of the drive.
It's a great idea, and one he should use.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074874</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075222</id>
	<title>Image It!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258050960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Make an image of the computer after you set it up the way you want it. Then you can restore it quickly when it get hosed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Make an image of the computer after you set it up the way you want it .
Then you can restore it quickly when it get hosed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Make an image of the computer after you set it up the way you want it.
Then you can restore it quickly when it get hosed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076494</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>psergiu</author>
	<datestamp>1258054800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>True.</p><p>I got macs to all the family (no need to break the bank - an old &amp; cheap G4 mini is perfect for a parent computer), created non-admin accounts and locked the icons in the Dock. Onece in a blue moon when i go there i login in the admin account and run Software Update - but that's all. No viruses, no 2-day windows reinstalls. When external 1Tb HDDs will get extremely cheap i will get them one and setup them for TimeMachine so i'll have less work to do when their internal HDDs will break.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>True.I got macs to all the family ( no need to break the bank - an old &amp; cheap G4 mini is perfect for a parent computer ) , created non-admin accounts and locked the icons in the Dock .
Onece in a blue moon when i go there i login in the admin account and run Software Update - but that 's all .
No viruses , no 2-day windows reinstalls .
When external 1Tb HDDs will get extremely cheap i will get them one and setup them for TimeMachine so i 'll have less work to do when their internal HDDs will break .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>True.I got macs to all the family (no need to break the bank - an old &amp; cheap G4 mini is perfect for a parent computer), created non-admin accounts and locked the icons in the Dock.
Onece in a blue moon when i go there i login in the admin account and run Software Update - but that's all.
No viruses, no 2-day windows reinstalls.
When external 1Tb HDDs will get extremely cheap i will get them one and setup them for TimeMachine so i'll have less work to do when their internal HDDs will break.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30079128</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258021140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I support this preposition. The main reason is that you get rid of the virus and addware, and the system auto updates itself. Which means you got a computer immune to the problems, a FLOSS(Free Licensed Open Source Software) OS and it stays updated. And, the user interface is good.<br>I would recommend to install the Mint edition(contains all the stuff you need out of the box, such as flash and lots of media formats), http://www.linuxmint.com/ .</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I support this preposition .
The main reason is that you get rid of the virus and addware , and the system auto updates itself .
Which means you got a computer immune to the problems , a FLOSS ( Free Licensed Open Source Software ) OS and it stays updated .
And , the user interface is good.I would recommend to install the Mint edition ( contains all the stuff you need out of the box , such as flash and lots of media formats ) , http : //www.linuxmint.com/ .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I support this preposition.
The main reason is that you get rid of the virus and addware, and the system auto updates itself.
Which means you got a computer immune to the problems, a FLOSS(Free Licensed Open Source Software) OS and it stays updated.
And, the user interface is good.I would recommend to install the Mint edition(contains all the stuff you need out of the box, such as flash and lots of media formats), http://www.linuxmint.com/ .</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075496</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30081518</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258030680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I set up my mother with an iMac 7 years ago.  No troubles.</p><p>It does everything she wants it to.  The only maintenance I've done was to install Firefox, and to set up automatic backups.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I set up my mother with an iMac 7 years ago .
No troubles.It does everything she wants it to .
The only maintenance I 've done was to install Firefox , and to set up automatic backups .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I set up my mother with an iMac 7 years ago.
No troubles.It does everything she wants it to.
The only maintenance I've done was to install Firefox, and to set up automatic backups.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074762</id>
	<title>Malwarebytes and combo fix</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258049760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Put them on user accounts on linux, vista, or windows 7. Do not give them admin passwords.</p><p>Learn how to use combofix and malwarebytes, so you don't have to keep re-installing after infection.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Put them on user accounts on linux , vista , or windows 7 .
Do not give them admin passwords.Learn how to use combofix and malwarebytes , so you do n't have to keep re-installing after infection .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Put them on user accounts on linux, vista, or windows 7.
Do not give them admin passwords.Learn how to use combofix and malwarebytes, so you don't have to keep re-installing after infection.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077318</id>
	<title>absitinence</title>
	<author>sorak</author>
	<datestamp>1258057680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I recommend abstinence. That's right. Tell them never to use their computer and it will be much safer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I recommend abstinence .
That 's right .
Tell them never to use their computer and it will be much safer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I recommend abstinence.
That's right.
Tell them never to use their computer and it will be much safer.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075454</id>
	<title>Re:Simple economics:</title>
	<author>pipboy9999</author>
	<datestamp>1258051560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This might work for friends, but people tend to forget those infant years of their life when their parents did literally every thing for them, and then in your school-age years when they still provided for nearly all of your daily needs. As frustrating as it is for me, I do it with out too much griping because I know it was my parents that bought me my first computer, let me have the freedom to explore it, fed and housed me for 19 years, and never once asked for any thing more than an occasional chore. A few hours of annoyance one or twice a month seems like a small price to pay when all things are considered.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This might work for friends , but people tend to forget those infant years of their life when their parents did literally every thing for them , and then in your school-age years when they still provided for nearly all of your daily needs .
As frustrating as it is for me , I do it with out too much griping because I know it was my parents that bought me my first computer , let me have the freedom to explore it , fed and housed me for 19 years , and never once asked for any thing more than an occasional chore .
A few hours of annoyance one or twice a month seems like a small price to pay when all things are considered .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This might work for friends, but people tend to forget those infant years of their life when their parents did literally every thing for them, and then in your school-age years when they still provided for nearly all of your daily needs.
As frustrating as it is for me, I do it with out too much griping because I know it was my parents that bought me my first computer, let me have the freedom to explore it, fed and housed me for 19 years, and never once asked for any thing more than an occasional chore.
A few hours of annoyance one or twice a month seems like a small price to pay when all things are considered.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074842</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075706</id>
	<title>Re:Install Ubuntu</title>
	<author>TheRaven64</author>
	<datestamp>1258052340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Get back to me when you've explained the difference between running a downloaded program, running a web app in a browser, and opening a downloaded file.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Get back to me when you 've explained the difference between running a downloaded program , running a web app in a browser , and opening a downloaded file .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get back to me when you've explained the difference between running a downloaded program, running a web app in a browser, and opening a downloaded file.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075198</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075114</id>
	<title>Make it inconvient for them, not for you</title>
	<author>iaamoac</author>
	<datestamp>1258050600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If your family is like mine, they will not learn unless the cost of not learning it becomes too inconvenient.  As it stands, you are probably bearing the brunt of the inconvenience.  Spread it around.  Each time you have to do the same things to fix their problems, charge them more, and let them know it.  What you charge does not necessarily have to be $$$.  Let them clean your place, yard, cook meals for you, fix something, baby sit,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... but get something out of it.  You are giving up your time to fix the same mistakes of theirs time and again.  This is time that you could be improving YOUR life.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If your family is like mine , they will not learn unless the cost of not learning it becomes too inconvenient .
As it stands , you are probably bearing the brunt of the inconvenience .
Spread it around .
Each time you have to do the same things to fix their problems , charge them more , and let them know it .
What you charge does not necessarily have to be $ $ $ .
Let them clean your place , yard , cook meals for you , fix something , baby sit , .... but get something out of it .
You are giving up your time to fix the same mistakes of theirs time and again .
This is time that you could be improving YOUR life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If your family is like mine, they will not learn unless the cost of not learning it becomes too inconvenient.
As it stands, you are probably bearing the brunt of the inconvenience.
Spread it around.
Each time you have to do the same things to fix their problems, charge them more, and let them know it.
What you charge does not necessarily have to be $$$.
Let them clean your place, yard, cook meals for you, fix something, baby sit, .... but get something out of it.
You are giving up your time to fix the same mistakes of theirs time and again.
This is time that you could be improving YOUR life.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076452</id>
	<title>Couple of ways</title>
	<author>Snidley Whiplash</author>
	<datestamp>1258054680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There are probably 2 good ways of doing this. One cheaper than the other.
One way would be to build a full blown "client/server" network w/a dedicated server as a domain controler then give them all restricted accounts. This could be a little expensive since you have to have a dedicated computer w/a server O/S (Win2003 or 2008) etc. But you can lock down the accounts pretty good. And you can manage all or their acconts from that central location, which is very convenient.

The other way would be to buy a copy of VMWare and build virtual machines for them. Then make backups of all of the virtual machines. Then if they trash the virtual machine, you just copy back the original and in effect, they have a new computer. This is much cheaper than setting up a client/server network and easier too.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are probably 2 good ways of doing this .
One cheaper than the other .
One way would be to build a full blown " client/server " network w/a dedicated server as a domain controler then give them all restricted accounts .
This could be a little expensive since you have to have a dedicated computer w/a server O/S ( Win2003 or 2008 ) etc .
But you can lock down the accounts pretty good .
And you can manage all or their acconts from that central location , which is very convenient .
The other way would be to buy a copy of VMWare and build virtual machines for them .
Then make backups of all of the virtual machines .
Then if they trash the virtual machine , you just copy back the original and in effect , they have a new computer .
This is much cheaper than setting up a client/server network and easier too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are probably 2 good ways of doing this.
One cheaper than the other.
One way would be to build a full blown "client/server" network w/a dedicated server as a domain controler then give them all restricted accounts.
This could be a little expensive since you have to have a dedicated computer w/a server O/S (Win2003 or 2008) etc.
But you can lock down the accounts pretty good.
And you can manage all or their acconts from that central location, which is very convenient.
The other way would be to buy a copy of VMWare and build virtual machines for them.
Then make backups of all of the virtual machines.
Then if they trash the virtual machine, you just copy back the original and in effect, they have a new computer.
This is much cheaper than setting up a client/server network and easier too.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077428</id>
	<title>Install Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258058040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's what I did in my house. We have 5 people and about 10 machines. All but 2 have Ubuntu.</p><p>The 2 windoze machines are used almost exclusively for games. Whenever the windoze machines<br>go bad (which does happen periodically), I just reformat.</p><p>All the important data and functions (documents, print serving, scanner, music serving, etc)<br>are on the Ubuntu machines. They just work. Never had a problem with them.</p><p>The least technically-oriented person in the house (50 year old woman) couldn't be<br>happier with Ubuntu. She uses firefox for web browsing, gmail for email, f-spot for photo<br>handling, and open office for word processing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's what I did in my house .
We have 5 people and about 10 machines .
All but 2 have Ubuntu.The 2 windoze machines are used almost exclusively for games .
Whenever the windoze machinesgo bad ( which does happen periodically ) , I just reformat.All the important data and functions ( documents , print serving , scanner , music serving , etc ) are on the Ubuntu machines .
They just work .
Never had a problem with them.The least technically-oriented person in the house ( 50 year old woman ) could n't behappier with Ubuntu .
She uses firefox for web browsing , gmail for email , f-spot for photohandling , and open office for word processing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's what I did in my house.
We have 5 people and about 10 machines.
All but 2 have Ubuntu.The 2 windoze machines are used almost exclusively for games.
Whenever the windoze machinesgo bad (which does happen periodically), I just reformat.All the important data and functions (documents, print serving, scanner, music serving, etc)are on the Ubuntu machines.
They just work.
Never had a problem with them.The least technically-oriented person in the house (50 year old woman) couldn't behappier with Ubuntu.
She uses firefox for web browsing, gmail for email, f-spot for photohandling, and open office for word processing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075280</id>
	<title>Re:Buy them a Mac</title>
	<author>Decameron81</author>
	<datestamp>1258051080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I forced my GF to get a Mac.  Zero problems now.

BTW this is not against Windows.  But if I have to do the tech support for computer-illiterate people I find Macs server the purpose better.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I forced my GF to get a Mac .
Zero problems now .
BTW this is not against Windows .
But if I have to do the tech support for computer-illiterate people I find Macs server the purpose better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I forced my GF to get a Mac.
Zero problems now.
BTW this is not against Windows.
But if I have to do the tech support for computer-illiterate people I find Macs server the purpose better.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074696</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078478</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>HonestButCurious</author>
	<datestamp>1258018740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's a really good idea, and at least in my house it's working out wonderfully well.  The OP had in his mind that the users are somehow going to be "improved" if they get good reading material about malware, viruses, etc.  It's well known that it doesn't work that way - they'll keep making mistakes (perhaps only half as much, but so what).  The best solutions are those that keep the user out of the loop - that is, installing a different OS, lockdown policies, etc. etc.</p><p>I've never heard of Steadystate before.  It sounds like a brilliant idea.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's a really good idea , and at least in my house it 's working out wonderfully well .
The OP had in his mind that the users are somehow going to be " improved " if they get good reading material about malware , viruses , etc .
It 's well known that it does n't work that way - they 'll keep making mistakes ( perhaps only half as much , but so what ) .
The best solutions are those that keep the user out of the loop - that is , installing a different OS , lockdown policies , etc .
etc.I 've never heard of Steadystate before .
It sounds like a brilliant idea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's a really good idea, and at least in my house it's working out wonderfully well.
The OP had in his mind that the users are somehow going to be "improved" if they get good reading material about malware, viruses, etc.
It's well known that it doesn't work that way - they'll keep making mistakes (perhaps only half as much, but so what).
The best solutions are those that keep the user out of the loop - that is, installing a different OS, lockdown policies, etc.
etc.I've never heard of Steadystate before.
It sounds like a brilliant idea.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30088332</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258135380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think a Linux distro of your choice would be the best option. (X)(K)(U)buntu are good choices along with some of the other stable releases. I am the IT guy at my local fire company and we have a general access computer that is used by everybody (cops, visitors, members, etc.) that comes into the fire house for general web browsing and small word processing tasks. Over a few years I was reinstalling windows every few months, I switched it over to Kubuntu for the last LTS and they figured it out pretty quickly (Mind you that these guys are almost completely computer illiterate). Since the switch I've had no problems other than "Hey where did solitaire go?".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think a Linux distro of your choice would be the best option .
( X ) ( K ) ( U ) buntu are good choices along with some of the other stable releases .
I am the IT guy at my local fire company and we have a general access computer that is used by everybody ( cops , visitors , members , etc .
) that comes into the fire house for general web browsing and small word processing tasks .
Over a few years I was reinstalling windows every few months , I switched it over to Kubuntu for the last LTS and they figured it out pretty quickly ( Mind you that these guys are almost completely computer illiterate ) .
Since the switch I 've had no problems other than " Hey where did solitaire go ?
" .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think a Linux distro of your choice would be the best option.
(X)(K)(U)buntu are good choices along with some of the other stable releases.
I am the IT guy at my local fire company and we have a general access computer that is used by everybody (cops, visitors, members, etc.
) that comes into the fire house for general web browsing and small word processing tasks.
Over a few years I was reinstalling windows every few months, I switched it over to Kubuntu for the last LTS and they figured it out pretty quickly (Mind you that these guys are almost completely computer illiterate).
Since the switch I've had no problems other than "Hey where did solitaire go?
".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075496</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30082478</id>
	<title>You have to pay me to support Windows.</title>
	<author>4iedBandit</author>
	<datestamp>1258037580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes I've done it for a living.  That means people PAID me money to do it.  I didn't do it because it's fun.  I didn't do it because it's cool.  I didn't do it because I like it.  I did it because people PAID me to do it.  If you are not prepared to PAY me, I'm not prepared to fix your Windows problems.  I don't care if you're family.</p><p>Harsh?  Not really.  Those family member who want my support follow my advice and get a Mac.  And guess what? I spend maybe one hour total each year for all Mac owning family members supporting them.  Those family member with Windows don't call me with their questions.  And that's the way I like it.</p><p>Am I a jerk?  Well I'm sure my mom's new husband thought so the second time he called me for support on his Windows system and my answer for the second time was, "Get a Mac."  But seriously, if I thought it was the bees knees I'd do it for free.  It's not.  It's a horrible time sink and a waste of my free time.  Hmm, take the kids to the park?  Or fix Grandpa's computer...again?  Easy call for me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes I 've done it for a living .
That means people PAID me money to do it .
I did n't do it because it 's fun .
I did n't do it because it 's cool .
I did n't do it because I like it .
I did it because people PAID me to do it .
If you are not prepared to PAY me , I 'm not prepared to fix your Windows problems .
I do n't care if you 're family.Harsh ?
Not really .
Those family member who want my support follow my advice and get a Mac .
And guess what ?
I spend maybe one hour total each year for all Mac owning family members supporting them .
Those family member with Windows do n't call me with their questions .
And that 's the way I like it.Am I a jerk ?
Well I 'm sure my mom 's new husband thought so the second time he called me for support on his Windows system and my answer for the second time was , " Get a Mac .
" But seriously , if I thought it was the bees knees I 'd do it for free .
It 's not .
It 's a horrible time sink and a waste of my free time .
Hmm , take the kids to the park ?
Or fix Grandpa 's computer...again ?
Easy call for me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes I've done it for a living.
That means people PAID me money to do it.
I didn't do it because it's fun.
I didn't do it because it's cool.
I didn't do it because I like it.
I did it because people PAID me to do it.
If you are not prepared to PAY me, I'm not prepared to fix your Windows problems.
I don't care if you're family.Harsh?
Not really.
Those family member who want my support follow my advice and get a Mac.
And guess what?
I spend maybe one hour total each year for all Mac owning family members supporting them.
Those family member with Windows don't call me with their questions.
And that's the way I like it.Am I a jerk?
Well I'm sure my mom's new husband thought so the second time he called me for support on his Windows system and my answer for the second time was, "Get a Mac.
"  But seriously, if I thought it was the bees knees I'd do it for free.
It's not.
It's a horrible time sink and a waste of my free time.
Hmm, take the kids to the park?
Or fix Grandpa's computer...again?
Easy call for me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076376</id>
	<title>Make a standard install image</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258054500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Get a 1TB USB drive, use something like Rebit to make an image of a system in a good state and whenever something happens, reloadto that image.</p><p>You cand even update the image periodically.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Get a 1TB USB drive , use something like Rebit to make an image of a system in a good state and whenever something happens , reloadto that image.You cand even update the image periodically .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get a 1TB USB drive, use something like Rebit to make an image of a system in a good state and whenever something happens, reloadto that image.You cand even update the image periodically.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075830</id>
	<title>Ghost image</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258052760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I see that some one has already mentioned Deep Freeze, that is one option.

What I did with my family is I setup a document backup to an external drive.  I then loaded their system up and configured it as needed.  I installed most of the software they desired.  I then captured a ghost image and saved it to their backup drive.  I disabled the backup drive from showing up in explorer and left them too it.

When a refresh is warranted, I just apply the ghost image and recover their documents and such from the backup.  This takes between 30 minutes and an hour.

Works for me so far.  Any application they lost after the refresh will have to be reloaded. If it is warranted, I will add that software and then create a new image.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I see that some one has already mentioned Deep Freeze , that is one option .
What I did with my family is I setup a document backup to an external drive .
I then loaded their system up and configured it as needed .
I installed most of the software they desired .
I then captured a ghost image and saved it to their backup drive .
I disabled the backup drive from showing up in explorer and left them too it .
When a refresh is warranted , I just apply the ghost image and recover their documents and such from the backup .
This takes between 30 minutes and an hour .
Works for me so far .
Any application they lost after the refresh will have to be reloaded .
If it is warranted , I will add that software and then create a new image .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see that some one has already mentioned Deep Freeze, that is one option.
What I did with my family is I setup a document backup to an external drive.
I then loaded their system up and configured it as needed.
I installed most of the software they desired.
I then captured a ghost image and saved it to their backup drive.
I disabled the backup drive from showing up in explorer and left them too it.
When a refresh is warranted, I just apply the ghost image and recover their documents and such from the backup.
This takes between 30 minutes and an hour.
Works for me so far.
Any application they lost after the refresh will have to be reloaded.
If it is warranted, I will add that software and then create a new image.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075148</id>
	<title>HARDWARE</title>
	<author>codemaster2b</author>
	<datestamp>1258050780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Okay, as they say, blood is thicker than water. As well-meaning as these kind folks on Slashdot are, you and I know that you cannot get out of a support role. In truth, it is a meaningful service you can provide. But, since you're commited, why not examine ways to reduce your problems?

Sure, there are lots of software options, but I'm more of a hardware kind of guy. I bought a $100 router with twin hardware firewalls. Even using free ZoneAlarm under Windows XP Professional, I have had zero spyware, malware, viruses, rootkits, etc. In well over a year. That's with four windows XP machines and 3 Ubuntu machines on the network, plus printer, XBOX360, etc. I lock my wireless network to MAC-only and leave it otherwise open and unencrypted.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Okay , as they say , blood is thicker than water .
As well-meaning as these kind folks on Slashdot are , you and I know that you can not get out of a support role .
In truth , it is a meaningful service you can provide .
But , since you 're commited , why not examine ways to reduce your problems ?
Sure , there are lots of software options , but I 'm more of a hardware kind of guy .
I bought a $ 100 router with twin hardware firewalls .
Even using free ZoneAlarm under Windows XP Professional , I have had zero spyware , malware , viruses , rootkits , etc .
In well over a year .
That 's with four windows XP machines and 3 Ubuntu machines on the network , plus printer , XBOX360 , etc .
I lock my wireless network to MAC-only and leave it otherwise open and unencrypted .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Okay, as they say, blood is thicker than water.
As well-meaning as these kind folks on Slashdot are, you and I know that you cannot get out of a support role.
In truth, it is a meaningful service you can provide.
But, since you're commited, why not examine ways to reduce your problems?
Sure, there are lots of software options, but I'm more of a hardware kind of guy.
I bought a $100 router with twin hardware firewalls.
Even using free ZoneAlarm under Windows XP Professional, I have had zero spyware, malware, viruses, rootkits, etc.
In well over a year.
That's with four windows XP machines and 3 Ubuntu machines on the network, plus printer, XBOX360, etc.
I lock my wireless network to MAC-only and leave it otherwise open and unencrypted.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078410</id>
	<title>Get a Mac</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258018560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was in the same position, till I made my father, father-in-law, and mother-in-law all switch to Mac. (and my wife switched when we got married... she had no choice)</p><p>A few support issue right after they got their respective Macs, almost none since then.</p><p>Never a virus nor ever any had a hardware issue.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was in the same position , till I made my father , father-in-law , and mother-in-law all switch to Mac .
( and my wife switched when we got married... she had no choice ) A few support issue right after they got their respective Macs , almost none since then.Never a virus nor ever any had a hardware issue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was in the same position, till I made my father, father-in-law, and mother-in-law all switch to Mac.
(and my wife switched when we got married... she had no choice)A few support issue right after they got their respective Macs, almost none since then.Never a virus nor ever any had a hardware issue.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076344</id>
	<title>Re:Make them pay</title>
	<author>sribe</author>
	<datestamp>1258054380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> What you need to do is make them pay for your services, so there are some stakes behind them asking you to fix it.</p></div><p>Bad idea. Horrible for the family dynamics. Much better to have a big crisis at work and be unavailable to help them, and refer them to the Geek Squad.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What you need to do is make them pay for your services , so there are some stakes behind them asking you to fix it.Bad idea .
Horrible for the family dynamics .
Much better to have a big crisis at work and be unavailable to help them , and refer them to the Geek Squad .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> What you need to do is make them pay for your services, so there are some stakes behind them asking you to fix it.Bad idea.
Horrible for the family dynamics.
Much better to have a big crisis at work and be unavailable to help them, and refer them to the Geek Squad.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074858</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076682</id>
	<title>Let Nature Take Its Course</title>
	<author>EndlessNameless</author>
	<datestamp>1258055460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Stop fixing it. Send them to Geek Squad or some other 3rd-rate repair shop where they will pay $200+ to have their system cleaned.</p><p>Once they understand the cost and hassle associated with their mistakes, they'll be more inclined to avoid them in the future.</p><p>If, for social reasons, you can't simply tell them to get it fixed themselves, then just ignore calls or fall off the face of the Earth for a few weeks the next time they screw up their machine.</p><p>Would they expect a mechanic or artist friend to fix their car or paint a piece for the living room for free? If your family works this way then maybe you do have an obligation, otherwise this is their problem---especially once they're on the umpteenth infection.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Stop fixing it .
Send them to Geek Squad or some other 3rd-rate repair shop where they will pay $ 200 + to have their system cleaned.Once they understand the cost and hassle associated with their mistakes , they 'll be more inclined to avoid them in the future.If , for social reasons , you ca n't simply tell them to get it fixed themselves , then just ignore calls or fall off the face of the Earth for a few weeks the next time they screw up their machine.Would they expect a mechanic or artist friend to fix their car or paint a piece for the living room for free ?
If your family works this way then maybe you do have an obligation , otherwise this is their problem---especially once they 're on the umpteenth infection .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Stop fixing it.
Send them to Geek Squad or some other 3rd-rate repair shop where they will pay $200+ to have their system cleaned.Once they understand the cost and hassle associated with their mistakes, they'll be more inclined to avoid them in the future.If, for social reasons, you can't simply tell them to get it fixed themselves, then just ignore calls or fall off the face of the Earth for a few weeks the next time they screw up their machine.Would they expect a mechanic or artist friend to fix their car or paint a piece for the living room for free?
If your family works this way then maybe you do have an obligation, otherwise this is their problem---especially once they're on the umpteenth infection.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077658</id>
	<title>Re:You have the control, so use it!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258058940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Precisely. I've locked down and "parent-proofed" a copy of Windows XP for my 71 y/o Mom and she's not had a problem for the 5 years she's been on-line.</p><p>Then again, I instructed her about safe surfing habits and such...About not giving out her personal information to whatever website asks for it...And about phishing and e-mail scams. I mean, I really had to sit down with her over the course of a couple weeks and go over this stuff while teaching her how to operate her computer.</p><p>The only problem I have is that she loves to print out recipes and she goes through toner cartridges like popcorn.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Precisely .
I 've locked down and " parent-proofed " a copy of Windows XP for my 71 y/o Mom and she 's not had a problem for the 5 years she 's been on-line.Then again , I instructed her about safe surfing habits and such...About not giving out her personal information to whatever website asks for it...And about phishing and e-mail scams .
I mean , I really had to sit down with her over the course of a couple weeks and go over this stuff while teaching her how to operate her computer.The only problem I have is that she loves to print out recipes and she goes through toner cartridges like popcorn .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Precisely.
I've locked down and "parent-proofed" a copy of Windows XP for my 71 y/o Mom and she's not had a problem for the 5 years she's been on-line.Then again, I instructed her about safe surfing habits and such...About not giving out her personal information to whatever website asks for it...And about phishing and e-mail scams.
I mean, I really had to sit down with her over the course of a couple weeks and go over this stuff while teaching her how to operate her computer.The only problem I have is that she loves to print out recipes and she goes through toner cartridges like popcorn.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074830</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075018</id>
	<title>No responsibility? Take away the power.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258050300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If they aren't willing or able to learn how to be responsible and avoid downloading malware, take away some of the power.</p><p>If it's not already the case, make sure none of the problem users have admin rights.  If that's not enough, switch them to Ubuntu.   If all they use the computer for is the internet, Ubuntu will work just fine for most of their needs.</p><p>Another plus side to Ubuntu: you can easily administer them remotely, especially if you're on the same side of the router, to make sure they are all getting periodic security patches.</p><p>I realize that Linux might not be an option if any of these users insist on web services like netflix streaming and certain facebook games, but it might be worth trying.</p><p>Also do any of the users use the computer regularly for anything other than the internet?  I.e. games, syncing their I-Pod, etc?  If so, coming up with workable solutions might cause more headaches under linux than just periodically wiping their systems.</p><p>If you are forced to stick with windows, consider setting up a *nix box as a file server and have every one store their data on a central machine that you control so that when their systems die, you can wipe them clean without worrying about data loss.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If they are n't willing or able to learn how to be responsible and avoid downloading malware , take away some of the power.If it 's not already the case , make sure none of the problem users have admin rights .
If that 's not enough , switch them to Ubuntu .
If all they use the computer for is the internet , Ubuntu will work just fine for most of their needs.Another plus side to Ubuntu : you can easily administer them remotely , especially if you 're on the same side of the router , to make sure they are all getting periodic security patches.I realize that Linux might not be an option if any of these users insist on web services like netflix streaming and certain facebook games , but it might be worth trying.Also do any of the users use the computer regularly for anything other than the internet ?
I.e. games , syncing their I-Pod , etc ?
If so , coming up with workable solutions might cause more headaches under linux than just periodically wiping their systems.If you are forced to stick with windows , consider setting up a * nix box as a file server and have every one store their data on a central machine that you control so that when their systems die , you can wipe them clean without worrying about data loss .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they aren't willing or able to learn how to be responsible and avoid downloading malware, take away some of the power.If it's not already the case, make sure none of the problem users have admin rights.
If that's not enough, switch them to Ubuntu.
If all they use the computer for is the internet, Ubuntu will work just fine for most of their needs.Another plus side to Ubuntu: you can easily administer them remotely, especially if you're on the same side of the router, to make sure they are all getting periodic security patches.I realize that Linux might not be an option if any of these users insist on web services like netflix streaming and certain facebook games, but it might be worth trying.Also do any of the users use the computer regularly for anything other than the internet?
I.e. games, syncing their I-Pod, etc?
If so, coming up with workable solutions might cause more headaches under linux than just periodically wiping their systems.If you are forced to stick with windows, consider setting up a *nix box as a file server and have every one store their data on a central machine that you control so that when their systems die, you can wipe them clean without worrying about data loss.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077682</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>Fulcrum of Evil</author>
	<datestamp>1258059000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The only reason why she did vet school instead of med school (truth be known vet school is more difficult to get into) is because she likes animals better than people.</p></div><p>You know, I can't really argue this - if you find a stray dog, take it home, and feed it for a year, you can be pretty sure it won't bite you. Humans are somewhat less reliable.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only reason why she did vet school instead of med school ( truth be known vet school is more difficult to get into ) is because she likes animals better than people.You know , I ca n't really argue this - if you find a stray dog , take it home , and feed it for a year , you can be pretty sure it wo n't bite you .
Humans are somewhat less reliable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only reason why she did vet school instead of med school (truth be known vet school is more difficult to get into) is because she likes animals better than people.You know, I can't really argue this - if you find a stray dog, take it home, and feed it for a year, you can be pretty sure it won't bite you.
Humans are somewhat less reliable.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078114</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>cream wobbly</author>
	<datestamp>1258017300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No. It's like buying them a dishwasher.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No .
It 's like buying them a dishwasher .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No.
It's like buying them a dishwasher.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075110</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075528</id>
	<title>Oh Please...</title>
	<author>Karem Lore</author>
	<datestamp>1258051740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1) Reformat and re-install everything<br>2) Install a firewall.<br>3) Install an anti-virus.<br>4) Install an anti-spam<br>5) Make users users, not administrators.<br>6) Take a snapshot backup.<br>7) After 1 month, verify for virus' and or malware...Take a snapshot (for personal files and bookmarks).</p><p>If the compute stops, restore step 7)</p><p>Steps 1-7 can be replaced with:</p><p>1) Install linux. any...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 ) Reformat and re-install everything2 ) Install a firewall.3 ) Install an anti-virus.4 ) Install an anti-spam5 ) Make users users , not administrators.6 ) Take a snapshot backup.7 ) After 1 month , verify for virus ' and or malware...Take a snapshot ( for personal files and bookmarks ) .If the compute stops , restore step 7 ) Steps 1-7 can be replaced with : 1 ) Install linux .
any.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1) Reformat and re-install everything2) Install a firewall.3) Install an anti-virus.4) Install an anti-spam5) Make users users, not administrators.6) Take a snapshot backup.7) After 1 month, verify for virus' and or malware...Take a snapshot (for personal files and bookmarks).If the compute stops, restore step 7)Steps 1-7 can be replaced with:1) Install linux.
any...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30082330</id>
	<title>Re:Stop "helping"!</title>
	<author>DoctorJB</author>
	<datestamp>1258036380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Making them watch you as you fix their computer is a good idea.  But one better, which I've done myself, is make them drive while you direct.  Theoretically they learn how to do it, even though we know they're going to forget.  Next time they'll have to decide if they want to do the work with you watching or start looking for an easier mark.</p><p>This doesn't work well for phone support though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Making them watch you as you fix their computer is a good idea .
But one better , which I 've done myself , is make them drive while you direct .
Theoretically they learn how to do it , even though we know they 're going to forget .
Next time they 'll have to decide if they want to do the work with you watching or start looking for an easier mark.This does n't work well for phone support though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Making them watch you as you fix their computer is a good idea.
But one better, which I've done myself, is make them drive while you direct.
Theoretically they learn how to do it, even though we know they're going to forget.
Next time they'll have to decide if they want to do the work with you watching or start looking for an easier mark.This doesn't work well for phone support though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076442</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076946</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>JWSmythe</author>
	<datestamp>1258056480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; I try that a lot.  I tell people "I'm a Linux guy.  I don't understand their pesky Windows problems.  Try pointing and clicking on something."   I end up fixing their problems anyways, because they can't figure out how to point and click.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>    I try that a lot .
I tell people " I 'm a Linux guy .
I do n't understand their pesky Windows problems .
Try pointing and clicking on something .
" I end up fixing their problems anyways , because they ca n't figure out how to point and click .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
    I try that a lot.
I tell people "I'm a Linux guy.
I don't understand their pesky Windows problems.
Try pointing and clicking on something.
"   I end up fixing their problems anyways, because they can't figure out how to point and click.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075552</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075354</id>
	<title>Faronics DeepFreeze...</title>
	<author>SpankR</author>
	<datestamp>1258051260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>... and TightVNC.</htmltext>
<tokenext>... and TightVNC .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... and TightVNC.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075470</id>
	<title>Started my own business</title>
	<author>pdragon04</author>
	<datestamp>1258051620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you're that good at doing, you could also try starting your own business on the side doing it. It's extremely easy to start up a small LLC and keep yourself protected with a legitimate business.

That's what I did. It's amazing how quickly you stopped getting pestered to do things when you charge for it. Either the person corrects their actions or they find another sucker. Either way, you're getting paid for your time or no longer having your time wasted.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're that good at doing , you could also try starting your own business on the side doing it .
It 's extremely easy to start up a small LLC and keep yourself protected with a legitimate business .
That 's what I did .
It 's amazing how quickly you stopped getting pestered to do things when you charge for it .
Either the person corrects their actions or they find another sucker .
Either way , you 're getting paid for your time or no longer having your time wasted .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're that good at doing, you could also try starting your own business on the side doing it.
It's extremely easy to start up a small LLC and keep yourself protected with a legitimate business.
That's what I did.
It's amazing how quickly you stopped getting pestered to do things when you charge for it.
Either the person corrects their actions or they find another sucker.
Either way, you're getting paid for your time or no longer having your time wasted.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074842</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075496</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258051680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>No. Try Ubuntu.</htmltext>
<tokenext>No .
Try Ubuntu .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No.
Try Ubuntu.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074676</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075106</id>
	<title>Re:The butterfly Parable</title>
	<author>Nadaka</author>
	<datestamp>1258050600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are you a Lamarkian evolutionist? Saplings do not grow strong from being buffeted by the wind. They die or are weakened.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are you a Lamarkian evolutionist ?
Saplings do not grow strong from being buffeted by the wind .
They die or are weakened .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are you a Lamarkian evolutionist?
Saplings do not grow strong from being buffeted by the wind.
They die or are weakened.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30085332</id>
	<title>Re:Correct User Access</title>
	<author>jks</author>
	<datestamp>1258117500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But then you get a phone call every time they do want to install something. Better is to install sysresccd on a USB hard drive, configure the system just that once the way the users want it and use partimage to store an image of the computer's hard drive on the USB drive. When they get to trouble, restore the image and you've got a working system again - you could even set up a script to do this. In case of security updates, you of course need to restore the image, do the installation and create a new image, but this is much easier than hunting down all the spyware and whatever garbage the users have installed on the computer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But then you get a phone call every time they do want to install something .
Better is to install sysresccd on a USB hard drive , configure the system just that once the way the users want it and use partimage to store an image of the computer 's hard drive on the USB drive .
When they get to trouble , restore the image and you 've got a working system again - you could even set up a script to do this .
In case of security updates , you of course need to restore the image , do the installation and create a new image , but this is much easier than hunting down all the spyware and whatever garbage the users have installed on the computer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But then you get a phone call every time they do want to install something.
Better is to install sysresccd on a USB hard drive, configure the system just that once the way the users want it and use partimage to store an image of the computer's hard drive on the USB drive.
When they get to trouble, restore the image and you've got a working system again - you could even set up a script to do this.
In case of security updates, you of course need to restore the image, do the installation and create a new image, but this is much easier than hunting down all the spyware and whatever garbage the users have installed on the computer.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076444</id>
	<title>Limited user</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258054680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you have to use Windows, make all normal users "Limited user" and don't tell them the Administrator password. Also have Updates install automatically. You don't even need a virus scanner of some sort to keep the system going for years. I've been doing this for 8 years now.<br>Good luck!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you have to use Windows , make all normal users " Limited user " and do n't tell them the Administrator password .
Also have Updates install automatically .
You do n't even need a virus scanner of some sort to keep the system going for years .
I 've been doing this for 8 years now.Good luck !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you have to use Windows, make all normal users "Limited user" and don't tell them the Administrator password.
Also have Updates install automatically.
You don't even need a virus scanner of some sort to keep the system going for years.
I've been doing this for 8 years now.Good luck!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075000</id>
	<title>I used to be you...</title>
	<author>argent</author>
	<datestamp>1258050300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Every six months I was reinstalling my daughter's PC. Then I got her a used Mac, and despite her doing the same kinds of crazy things as on the PC (for example, deleting Terminal.app to make space on the boot drive) she was never able to break it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Every six months I was reinstalling my daughter 's PC .
Then I got her a used Mac , and despite her doing the same kinds of crazy things as on the PC ( for example , deleting Terminal.app to make space on the boot drive ) she was never able to break it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Every six months I was reinstalling my daughter's PC.
Then I got her a used Mac, and despite her doing the same kinds of crazy things as on the PC (for example, deleting Terminal.app to make space on the boot drive) she was never able to break it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30084812</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258109520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Um... "she likes animals better than people" and you find yourself arguing about who's line of work is more valuable. Unless this is some sort of long drawn out and convoluted buildup of some sort of sexual fantasy between the both of you, it sounds like a future of horrible passive-aggressive disdain.</p><p>Oh, and children really deserve to grow up in a loving house like that.</p><p>-l</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Um... " she likes animals better than people " and you find yourself arguing about who 's line of work is more valuable .
Unless this is some sort of long drawn out and convoluted buildup of some sort of sexual fantasy between the both of you , it sounds like a future of horrible passive-aggressive disdain.Oh , and children really deserve to grow up in a loving house like that.-l</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Um... "she likes animals better than people" and you find yourself arguing about who's line of work is more valuable.
Unless this is some sort of long drawn out and convoluted buildup of some sort of sexual fantasy between the both of you, it sounds like a future of horrible passive-aggressive disdain.Oh, and children really deserve to grow up in a loving house like that.-l</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30081050</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258028280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My brother in law had the same idea, Guess what they did the first week of ownership? Installed Win XP in Parallels, because the Mac stuff was just too different for them. Can't teach them old dogs new tricks. I still get called to fix it.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-(</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My brother in law had the same idea , Guess what they did the first week of ownership ?
Installed Win XP in Parallels , because the Mac stuff was just too different for them .
Ca n't teach them old dogs new tricks .
I still get called to fix it .
: - (</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My brother in law had the same idea, Guess what they did the first week of ownership?
Installed Win XP in Parallels, because the Mac stuff was just too different for them.
Can't teach them old dogs new tricks.
I still get called to fix it.
:-(</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30083666</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>crispytwo</author>
	<datestamp>1258049580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Did that for my mom 2 years ago, tech support dropped from serious Windows problems every month and minor ones every week to trivial 'support' for the Mac once a month when firefox/thuderbird updates, and says 'do you want to update?' - and the answer is Yes.</p><p>Tech support for Mac's rule!</p><p>Tech support for Ubuntu/Fedora/Debian rules too (a little more complex sometimes than for a Mac).</p><p>The tech people in love with MS really confuse me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did that for my mom 2 years ago , tech support dropped from serious Windows problems every month and minor ones every week to trivial 'support ' for the Mac once a month when firefox/thuderbird updates , and says 'do you want to update ?
' - and the answer is Yes.Tech support for Mac 's rule ! Tech support for Ubuntu/Fedora/Debian rules too ( a little more complex sometimes than for a Mac ) .The tech people in love with MS really confuse me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did that for my mom 2 years ago, tech support dropped from serious Windows problems every month and minor ones every week to trivial 'support' for the Mac once a month when firefox/thuderbird updates, and says 'do you want to update?
' - and the answer is Yes.Tech support for Mac's rule!Tech support for Ubuntu/Fedora/Debian rules too (a little more complex sometimes than for a Mac).The tech people in love with MS really confuse me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075962</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077368</id>
	<title>VPNs, centralized AV/Updates</title>
	<author>JorgeM</author>
	<datestamp>1258057800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have VPN routers set up at each house that connect to mine. All machines are domain joined. I can use DameWare to remote control any machine. I use a centralized AV solution and WSUS to keep systems up to date. Essentially, I treat my family's PCs just like the PCs on my work network. I set them up so they stay automatically up to date and so that they are easy to remotely administer.</p><p>None of this is particularly expensive. VPN capable routers don't cost any more than normal routers... Netgear has one for $100. If you don't like the VPN router route, use OpenVPN and run it as a system service on each remote computer. WSUS is free. Centralized AV costs are little different than the equivalent number of single licenses. SBS Server is cheap, if you don't like the Technet permanent eval route.</p><p>All of this is done without paying for a Mac or teaching someone who doesn't care how to use Linux.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have VPN routers set up at each house that connect to mine .
All machines are domain joined .
I can use DameWare to remote control any machine .
I use a centralized AV solution and WSUS to keep systems up to date .
Essentially , I treat my family 's PCs just like the PCs on my work network .
I set them up so they stay automatically up to date and so that they are easy to remotely administer.None of this is particularly expensive .
VPN capable routers do n't cost any more than normal routers... Netgear has one for $ 100 .
If you do n't like the VPN router route , use OpenVPN and run it as a system service on each remote computer .
WSUS is free .
Centralized AV costs are little different than the equivalent number of single licenses .
SBS Server is cheap , if you do n't like the Technet permanent eval route.All of this is done without paying for a Mac or teaching someone who does n't care how to use Linux .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have VPN routers set up at each house that connect to mine.
All machines are domain joined.
I can use DameWare to remote control any machine.
I use a centralized AV solution and WSUS to keep systems up to date.
Essentially, I treat my family's PCs just like the PCs on my work network.
I set them up so they stay automatically up to date and so that they are easy to remotely administer.None of this is particularly expensive.
VPN capable routers don't cost any more than normal routers... Netgear has one for $100.
If you don't like the VPN router route, use OpenVPN and run it as a system service on each remote computer.
WSUS is free.
Centralized AV costs are little different than the equivalent number of single licenses.
SBS Server is cheap, if you don't like the Technet permanent eval route.All of this is done without paying for a Mac or teaching someone who doesn't care how to use Linux.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076262</id>
	<title>Hosts files</title>
	<author>rhinchcl</author>
	<datestamp>1258054140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Rather than explaining, you could try using hosts files to block what you don't want them to get to. I've tried Pollock's hosts file and it seems to do a decent job while not blocking useful pages. <a href="http://someonewhocares.org/hosts/" title="someonewhocares.org" rel="nofollow">http://someonewhocares.org/hosts/</a> [someonewhocares.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Rather than explaining , you could try using hosts files to block what you do n't want them to get to .
I 've tried Pollock 's hosts file and it seems to do a decent job while not blocking useful pages .
http : //someonewhocares.org/hosts/ [ someonewhocares.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Rather than explaining, you could try using hosts files to block what you don't want them to get to.
I've tried Pollock's hosts file and it seems to do a decent job while not blocking useful pages.
http://someonewhocares.org/hosts/ [someonewhocares.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078878</id>
	<title>engineerAtHome</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258020240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have 2 kids constantly installing bloatware from Nickelodeon.com and other such kids places, and no level of user accounts are safe because they social engineer my Aunt to do anything they want.  So,  I installed VMWare Player and the Browser appliance, which is really just a light weight Ubuntu and Firefox, but it starts up a browser automatically, and told everyone that is *ONLY* way to get online.  No more problems<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have 2 kids constantly installing bloatware from Nickelodeon.com and other such kids places , and no level of user accounts are safe because they social engineer my Aunt to do anything they want .
So , I installed VMWare Player and the Browser appliance , which is really just a light weight Ubuntu and Firefox , but it starts up a browser automatically , and told everyone that is * ONLY * way to get online .
No more problems : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have 2 kids constantly installing bloatware from Nickelodeon.com and other such kids places, and no level of user accounts are safe because they social engineer my Aunt to do anything they want.
So,  I installed VMWare Player and the Browser appliance, which is really just a light weight Ubuntu and Firefox, but it starts up a browser automatically, and told everyone that is *ONLY* way to get online.
No more problems :)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075034</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>Port1080</author>
	<datestamp>1258050360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some people will probably claim that's a trite response, but it's actually the approach I took with my parents and so far it's worked quite well.  All they ever did with their computer was browse the internet and check e-mail - they didn't even really have the technical expertise to be installing their own programs.  Ubuntu has been a wonderful solution, particularly as Firefox has matured and the number of websites that require IE or ActiveX has dramatically declined.  Linux is great for people with very low technical competence, and it's great for people with very high technical competence*.  It's only a bear for people in the middle, who think that they should be able to do a lot of things with their computer, but aren't sure how to go about it.  For those people, I would recommend a Mac.</p><p>*Windows is also fine for technically inclined people, since they're unlikely to accidentally install malware or leave their system open to viruses</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some people will probably claim that 's a trite response , but it 's actually the approach I took with my parents and so far it 's worked quite well .
All they ever did with their computer was browse the internet and check e-mail - they did n't even really have the technical expertise to be installing their own programs .
Ubuntu has been a wonderful solution , particularly as Firefox has matured and the number of websites that require IE or ActiveX has dramatically declined .
Linux is great for people with very low technical competence , and it 's great for people with very high technical competence * .
It 's only a bear for people in the middle , who think that they should be able to do a lot of things with their computer , but are n't sure how to go about it .
For those people , I would recommend a Mac .
* Windows is also fine for technically inclined people , since they 're unlikely to accidentally install malware or leave their system open to viruses</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some people will probably claim that's a trite response, but it's actually the approach I took with my parents and so far it's worked quite well.
All they ever did with their computer was browse the internet and check e-mail - they didn't even really have the technical expertise to be installing their own programs.
Ubuntu has been a wonderful solution, particularly as Firefox has matured and the number of websites that require IE or ActiveX has dramatically declined.
Linux is great for people with very low technical competence, and it's great for people with very high technical competence*.
It's only a bear for people in the middle, who think that they should be able to do a lot of things with their computer, but aren't sure how to go about it.
For those people, I would recommend a Mac.
*Windows is also fine for technically inclined people, since they're unlikely to accidentally install malware or leave their system open to viruses</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074684</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30084656</id>
	<title>Re:Easy</title>
	<author>supernova\_hq</author>
	<datestamp>1258107120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>WOP is an amazingly useful FF extension to prevent people from visiting bad sites. FF's walware blocker does good, but WOP also block according to fraud reports, etc.</htmltext>
<tokenext>WOP is an amazingly useful FF extension to prevent people from visiting bad sites .
FF 's walware blocker does good , but WOP also block according to fraud reports , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>WOP is an amazingly useful FF extension to prevent people from visiting bad sites.
FF's walware blocker does good, but WOP also block according to fraud reports, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074780</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30085880</id>
	<title>The sad thing ....</title>
	<author>jotaeleemeese</author>
	<datestamp>1258123080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... is that the only reason somebody would have to meet family and friends is to fix their broken computers.</p><p>Look, if I want to see my family I just arrange to meet them and that is it, I love them, so I see no reason why I should burden them with a broken computing experience if I know there are better ways to work (i.e. ditch Windows).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... is that the only reason somebody would have to meet family and friends is to fix their broken computers.Look , if I want to see my family I just arrange to meet them and that is it , I love them , so I see no reason why I should burden them with a broken computing experience if I know there are better ways to work ( i.e .
ditch Windows ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... is that the only reason somebody would have to meet family and friends is to fix their broken computers.Look, if I want to see my family I just arrange to meet them and that is it, I love them, so I see no reason why I should burden them with a broken computing experience if I know there are better ways to work (i.e.
ditch Windows).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076088</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077326</id>
	<title>Re:Correct User Access</title>
	<author>schnablebg</author>
	<datestamp>1258057680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yep, this works like a charm. My parent's have access to the Admin account, but they know to only use it when absolutely necessary.  This is on XP and it works great the majority of the time. For the rare app that needs admin, I set up a shortcut that does a runas for them. This is much easier tech support than dealing with a FUBAR'd OS.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yep , this works like a charm .
My parent 's have access to the Admin account , but they know to only use it when absolutely necessary .
This is on XP and it works great the majority of the time .
For the rare app that needs admin , I set up a shortcut that does a runas for them .
This is much easier tech support than dealing with a FUBAR 'd OS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yep, this works like a charm.
My parent's have access to the Admin account, but they know to only use it when absolutely necessary.
This is on XP and it works great the majority of the time.
For the rare app that needs admin, I set up a shortcut that does a runas for them.
This is much easier tech support than dealing with a FUBAR'd OS.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30079990</id>
	<title>Remove their admin rights and run NOD32</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258023960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to run into such issues when I left my parents as the admin of their XP machine. I've since learned my lesson and have them login as a regular user. I also run NOD32 on their box. Since then I haven't had a single issue!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to run into such issues when I left my parents as the admin of their XP machine .
I 've since learned my lesson and have them login as a regular user .
I also run NOD32 on their box .
Since then I have n't had a single issue !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to run into such issues when I left my parents as the admin of their XP machine.
I've since learned my lesson and have them login as a regular user.
I also run NOD32 on their box.
Since then I haven't had a single issue!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077220</id>
	<title>Re:Correct User Access</title>
	<author>DigitalCrackPipe</author>
	<datestamp>1258057380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree.  If the problem is that bad, technical measures must also be applied beyond just user education.  It also sounds like the web browser may not be locked down (such as locking IE down or using FF with noscript).
<br> <br>
If they're using file sharing software sit down with them and explain that the choice to use many file of the popular file sharing programs also comes with free infections.  Talking with them may be more effective unless they need an authority figure (web-based materials) to back you up.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree .
If the problem is that bad , technical measures must also be applied beyond just user education .
It also sounds like the web browser may not be locked down ( such as locking IE down or using FF with noscript ) .
If they 're using file sharing software sit down with them and explain that the choice to use many file of the popular file sharing programs also comes with free infections .
Talking with them may be more effective unless they need an authority figure ( web-based materials ) to back you up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree.
If the problem is that bad, technical measures must also be applied beyond just user education.
It also sounds like the web browser may not be locked down (such as locking IE down or using FF with noscript).
If they're using file sharing software sit down with them and explain that the choice to use many file of the popular file sharing programs also comes with free infections.
Talking with them may be more effective unless they need an authority figure (web-based materials) to back you up.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30082810</id>
	<title>Re:Give Up</title>
	<author>jvin248</author>
	<datestamp>1258040820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What a mess. And a pile of work.

Install Ubuntu, set them up with individual accounts, tell them you upgraded the OS and all the software.
They are probably already using Firefox, Open Office, and so on.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What a mess .
And a pile of work .
Install Ubuntu , set them up with individual accounts , tell them you upgraded the OS and all the software .
They are probably already using Firefox , Open Office , and so on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What a mess.
And a pile of work.
Install Ubuntu, set them up with individual accounts, tell them you upgraded the OS and all the software.
They are probably already using Firefox, Open Office, and so on.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077056</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074856</id>
	<title>You know...</title>
	<author>FlyingBishop</author>
	<datestamp>1258050000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ubuntu still has a little ways to go, but it's good enough that if you're having regular problems, it will solve them. Just do it. You won't regret it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ubuntu still has a little ways to go , but it 's good enough that if you 're having regular problems , it will solve them .
Just do it .
You wo n't regret it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ubuntu still has a little ways to go, but it's good enough that if you're having regular problems, it will solve them.
Just do it.
You won't regret it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30083072</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258042860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Off topic, but...</p><p>Don't marry her. My ex-girlfriend was the same exact way (well, sort of) - she liked animals more than people (including me) and was full of disdain for my career (and intellect in general). She constantly poked fun at what a "dork" I was, and feigned pity for me because I was never "cool" (like her, presumably).</p><p>Long story short, I dumped her and found a woman who respects me and appreciates my intelligence. Breaking up with my ex was the best thing I ever did. Freedom never felt so good. It felt like what I imagine it must feel like to be rescued from a collapsed building after being trapped under the rubble for several days. One minute you're resigned to a horrible fate, and the next minute the world seems brand new again, full of infinite possibilities.</p><p>On the other hand, good luck explaining to her that you're breaking up with her because some anonymous nerd on Slashdot inspired you to reclaim your dignity.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Off topic , but...Do n't marry her .
My ex-girlfriend was the same exact way ( well , sort of ) - she liked animals more than people ( including me ) and was full of disdain for my career ( and intellect in general ) .
She constantly poked fun at what a " dork " I was , and feigned pity for me because I was never " cool " ( like her , presumably ) .Long story short , I dumped her and found a woman who respects me and appreciates my intelligence .
Breaking up with my ex was the best thing I ever did .
Freedom never felt so good .
It felt like what I imagine it must feel like to be rescued from a collapsed building after being trapped under the rubble for several days .
One minute you 're resigned to a horrible fate , and the next minute the world seems brand new again , full of infinite possibilities.On the other hand , good luck explaining to her that you 're breaking up with her because some anonymous nerd on Slashdot inspired you to reclaim your dignity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Off topic, but...Don't marry her.
My ex-girlfriend was the same exact way (well, sort of) - she liked animals more than people (including me) and was full of disdain for my career (and intellect in general).
She constantly poked fun at what a "dork" I was, and feigned pity for me because I was never "cool" (like her, presumably).Long story short, I dumped her and found a woman who respects me and appreciates my intelligence.
Breaking up with my ex was the best thing I ever did.
Freedom never felt so good.
It felt like what I imagine it must feel like to be rescued from a collapsed building after being trapped under the rubble for several days.
One minute you're resigned to a horrible fate, and the next minute the world seems brand new again, full of infinite possibilities.On the other hand, good luck explaining to her that you're breaking up with her because some anonymous nerd on Slashdot inspired you to reclaim your dignity.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075824</id>
	<title>you serious</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258052760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>tell them to stop being idiots. next time you format, put linux on it. then they cant download those trash apps they get and you will stop gettings calls about problems with the computer but questions on how do i do this, which takes less time away from your personal projects or family things.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>tell them to stop being idiots .
next time you format , put linux on it .
then they cant download those trash apps they get and you will stop gettings calls about problems with the computer but questions on how do i do this , which takes less time away from your personal projects or family things .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>tell them to stop being idiots.
next time you format, put linux on it.
then they cant download those trash apps they get and you will stop gettings calls about problems with the computer but questions on how do i do this, which takes less time away from your personal projects or family things.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077820</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258059420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yea i did that too cept she knows more about macs then i do so she has to handle any issue on her own. I can do windows and linux(command line) but i dont care about mac.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yea i did that too cept she knows more about macs then i do so she has to handle any issue on her own .
I can do windows and linux ( command line ) but i dont care about mac .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yea i did that too cept she knows more about macs then i do so she has to handle any issue on her own.
I can do windows and linux(command line) but i dont care about mac.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075962</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076034</id>
	<title>I like Deepfreeze by Faronics</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258053420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Disclaimer - not trying sell this product, but I'm an IT admin that deployed it...</p><p>I deployed a product called Deepfreeze to a school lab - it essentially locks the state of the PC.  Students are notorious for blowing up computers.  Get a virus?  Reboot and the machine returns to exactly the way you set it up.  Installed malware?  Reboot.  Do what I did during testing and gut the registry, turning the machine into a brick?  Reboot - fixed.  If you want to make a change, you have to "unfreeze" the machine.  Just don't give that password to unfreeze to the family members.  If you install a new program, you unfreeze then refreeze the machine.  Make sure all their files are stashed on a USB key or second drive that isn't frozen.  Just keep your OS/application drive frozen.</p><p>Works like a damn, and the cost is usually less than what you'd spend on AV.</p><p>If this has been going on for 7 years - just give up on the education side - it just isn't sticking - and put a solution in place that allows for rapid recovery.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Disclaimer - not trying sell this product , but I 'm an IT admin that deployed it...I deployed a product called Deepfreeze to a school lab - it essentially locks the state of the PC .
Students are notorious for blowing up computers .
Get a virus ?
Reboot and the machine returns to exactly the way you set it up .
Installed malware ?
Reboot. Do what I did during testing and gut the registry , turning the machine into a brick ?
Reboot - fixed .
If you want to make a change , you have to " unfreeze " the machine .
Just do n't give that password to unfreeze to the family members .
If you install a new program , you unfreeze then refreeze the machine .
Make sure all their files are stashed on a USB key or second drive that is n't frozen .
Just keep your OS/application drive frozen.Works like a damn , and the cost is usually less than what you 'd spend on AV.If this has been going on for 7 years - just give up on the education side - it just is n't sticking - and put a solution in place that allows for rapid recovery .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Disclaimer - not trying sell this product, but I'm an IT admin that deployed it...I deployed a product called Deepfreeze to a school lab - it essentially locks the state of the PC.
Students are notorious for blowing up computers.
Get a virus?
Reboot and the machine returns to exactly the way you set it up.
Installed malware?
Reboot.  Do what I did during testing and gut the registry, turning the machine into a brick?
Reboot - fixed.
If you want to make a change, you have to "unfreeze" the machine.
Just don't give that password to unfreeze to the family members.
If you install a new program, you unfreeze then refreeze the machine.
Make sure all their files are stashed on a USB key or second drive that isn't frozen.
Just keep your OS/application drive frozen.Works like a damn, and the cost is usually less than what you'd spend on AV.If this has been going on for 7 years - just give up on the education side - it just isn't sticking - and put a solution in place that allows for rapid recovery.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077618</id>
	<title>This one takes time...</title>
	<author>Etrias</author>
	<datestamp>1258058820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you some years to wait it out, you could try to really build up the IT industry to a younger relative (maybe a nephew or a niece) about how awesome it is.  Once they're convinced that this is the job for them, encourage them to start practicing!  Route any and all requests to said younger relative saying "they could use the practice" and convince your parents (or other relatives that call on you) that you're just not that on top of the current trends any more.<br> <br>

Rinse and repeat.  Hey, it works!</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you some years to wait it out , you could try to really build up the IT industry to a younger relative ( maybe a nephew or a niece ) about how awesome it is .
Once they 're convinced that this is the job for them , encourage them to start practicing !
Route any and all requests to said younger relative saying " they could use the practice " and convince your parents ( or other relatives that call on you ) that you 're just not that on top of the current trends any more .
Rinse and repeat .
Hey , it works !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you some years to wait it out, you could try to really build up the IT industry to a younger relative (maybe a nephew or a niece) about how awesome it is.
Once they're convinced that this is the job for them, encourage them to start practicing!
Route any and all requests to said younger relative saying "they could use the practice" and convince your parents (or other relatives that call on you) that you're just not that on top of the current trends any more.
Rinse and repeat.
Hey, it works!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077690</id>
	<title>Kinda Sad...</title>
	<author>IMoriarty</author>
	<datestamp>1258059060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>that a request for materials to educate is met with the usual array of "Swtich to x OS", "Lock down the system", and "Deal with it". I'm sure somewhere out there is the answer to this man's question of attempting to improve the basic computer literacy of his family, but it's apparently not on Slashdot.</htmltext>
<tokenext>that a request for materials to educate is met with the usual array of " Swtich to x OS " , " Lock down the system " , and " Deal with it " .
I 'm sure somewhere out there is the answer to this man 's question of attempting to improve the basic computer literacy of his family , but it 's apparently not on Slashdot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>that a request for materials to educate is met with the usual array of "Swtich to x OS", "Lock down the system", and "Deal with it".
I'm sure somewhere out there is the answer to this man's question of attempting to improve the basic computer literacy of his family, but it's apparently not on Slashdot.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074748</id>
	<title>Correct User Access</title>
	<author>jeffy210</author>
	<datestamp>1258049700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've found the best thing is to treat them like a corporation. Make sure their accounts are only user level, and either hold on to the Administrator password or make sure they know the real reason to use it. Done that with a few family friends I do work for and the amount of trouble i've had has dropped drastically.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've found the best thing is to treat them like a corporation .
Make sure their accounts are only user level , and either hold on to the Administrator password or make sure they know the real reason to use it .
Done that with a few family friends I do work for and the amount of trouble i 've had has dropped drastically .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've found the best thing is to treat them like a corporation.
Make sure their accounts are only user level, and either hold on to the Administrator password or make sure they know the real reason to use it.
Done that with a few family friends I do work for and the amount of trouble i've had has dropped drastically.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075686</id>
	<title>Easy fix</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258052280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>On my family's stuff, I install AVG (free.avg.com) and Spybot Search and Destroy. I then set them to run everyday in the middle of the night a couple hours apart. I set them to auto update and auto clean. I then tell the family member to leave their computer on and just turn the monitor off when they are not using it. This pretty much eliminates the need to go and clean their machines every couple of months. The only calls I get are around major releases of AVG because it throws up a warning that the current version will no longer be supported. This takes much less time than manually removing all the garbage at moments of catastrophe.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>On my family 's stuff , I install AVG ( free.avg.com ) and Spybot Search and Destroy .
I then set them to run everyday in the middle of the night a couple hours apart .
I set them to auto update and auto clean .
I then tell the family member to leave their computer on and just turn the monitor off when they are not using it .
This pretty much eliminates the need to go and clean their machines every couple of months .
The only calls I get are around major releases of AVG because it throws up a warning that the current version will no longer be supported .
This takes much less time than manually removing all the garbage at moments of catastrophe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On my family's stuff, I install AVG (free.avg.com) and Spybot Search and Destroy.
I then set them to run everyday in the middle of the night a couple hours apart.
I set them to auto update and auto clean.
I then tell the family member to leave their computer on and just turn the monitor off when they are not using it.
This pretty much eliminates the need to go and clean their machines every couple of months.
The only calls I get are around major releases of AVG because it throws up a warning that the current version will no longer be supported.
This takes much less time than manually removing all the garbage at moments of catastrophe.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30085548</id>
	<title>Re:Correct User Access</title>
	<author>The\_reformant</author>
	<datestamp>1258119960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I also find the best thing to do is treat them like a corporation so in order to get support they need to have first signed off on the Enterprise wide computer usage and security guidelines and then logon to the issue tracking database and create a problem along with a risk assesment and business impact. If they are unable to access the issue tracking database they need to get one of their coworkers to create the ticket on their behalf. The requests are then sorted according to impact where those causing more than $10,000 revenue loss are given an SLA of 5 hours. Other problems are assigned response times based on impact to the user and support team workload.
<br> <br>
Post resolution if the problem was caused by failure to adhere to the Enterprise wide computer usage and security guidelines then appropriate disciplinary action is instigated with their direct report-to.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I also find the best thing to do is treat them like a corporation so in order to get support they need to have first signed off on the Enterprise wide computer usage and security guidelines and then logon to the issue tracking database and create a problem along with a risk assesment and business impact .
If they are unable to access the issue tracking database they need to get one of their coworkers to create the ticket on their behalf .
The requests are then sorted according to impact where those causing more than $ 10,000 revenue loss are given an SLA of 5 hours .
Other problems are assigned response times based on impact to the user and support team workload .
Post resolution if the problem was caused by failure to adhere to the Enterprise wide computer usage and security guidelines then appropriate disciplinary action is instigated with their direct report-to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I also find the best thing to do is treat them like a corporation so in order to get support they need to have first signed off on the Enterprise wide computer usage and security guidelines and then logon to the issue tracking database and create a problem along with a risk assesment and business impact.
If they are unable to access the issue tracking database they need to get one of their coworkers to create the ticket on their behalf.
The requests are then sorted according to impact where those causing more than $10,000 revenue loss are given an SLA of 5 hours.
Other problems are assigned response times based on impact to the user and support team workload.
Post resolution if the problem was caused by failure to adhere to the Enterprise wide computer usage and security guidelines then appropriate disciplinary action is instigated with their direct report-to.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30079710</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>tummetott</author>
	<datestamp>1258023000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>install windows and linux, if windows is broken, the will be happy to use linux<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)

Using linux you can use rsync to backup thier data in background.</htmltext>
<tokenext>install windows and linux , if windows is broken , the will be happy to use linux ; - ) Using linux you can use rsync to backup thier data in background .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>install windows and linux, if windows is broken, the will be happy to use linux ;-)

Using linux you can use rsync to backup thier data in background.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076310</id>
	<title>Get a Mac</title>
	<author>goombah99</author>
	<datestamp>1258054260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> No I'm not trying to be smug.  I simply refuse to maintain windows computers.  Linux is not an option for most people.  Ergo, a mac.  Someday perhaps macs will be rife with trojans too.  I'm not living in a dream where macs are perfect.  But the very problem raised here is solved by  a mac.  So why fart around.  Is your time worth nothing?  if not these folks can cough up $599 for a mac mini.  You don't have to use a mac, cause you are not the one with the problem.  But they do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No I 'm not trying to be smug .
I simply refuse to maintain windows computers .
Linux is not an option for most people .
Ergo , a mac .
Someday perhaps macs will be rife with trojans too .
I 'm not living in a dream where macs are perfect .
But the very problem raised here is solved by a mac .
So why fart around .
Is your time worth nothing ?
if not these folks can cough up $ 599 for a mac mini .
You do n't have to use a mac , cause you are not the one with the problem .
But they do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> No I'm not trying to be smug.
I simply refuse to maintain windows computers.
Linux is not an option for most people.
Ergo, a mac.
Someday perhaps macs will be rife with trojans too.
I'm not living in a dream where macs are perfect.
But the very problem raised here is solved by  a mac.
So why fart around.
Is your time worth nothing?
if not these folks can cough up $599 for a mac mini.
You don't have to use a mac, cause you are not the one with the problem.
But they do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075044</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076232</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>NatasRevol</author>
	<datestamp>1258054020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You can run windows apps just fine on a Mac.  Have you heard of Boot Camp, or Parallels or VMWare?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You can run windows apps just fine on a Mac .
Have you heard of Boot Camp , or Parallels or VMWare ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can run windows apps just fine on a Mac.
Have you heard of Boot Camp, or Parallels or VMWare?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075538</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077262</id>
	<title>Quit!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258057500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's time to move out and find a new job.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's time to move out and find a new job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's time to move out and find a new job.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30082554</id>
	<title>Re:Buy them a Mac - with a caveat</title>
	<author>mikechant</author>
	<datestamp>1258038300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>I had problems helping her setup her wireless to a non-broadcasting router with encryption because Mac network settings are labelled differently and configured differently from Windows network settings.</i></p><p>I hope this doesn't sound insulting (it's really not intended to be) but did you do the "obvious" and google for something like "Mac wireless network configuration"? Because it's taken me a while to realize that frequently google does better than the OS or Application help, and that if you just don't know where (which menu etc.) an option is on a particular OS, then google does...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had problems helping her setup her wireless to a non-broadcasting router with encryption because Mac network settings are labelled differently and configured differently from Windows network settings.I hope this does n't sound insulting ( it 's really not intended to be ) but did you do the " obvious " and google for something like " Mac wireless network configuration " ?
Because it 's taken me a while to realize that frequently google does better than the OS or Application help , and that if you just do n't know where ( which menu etc .
) an option is on a particular OS , then google does.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had problems helping her setup her wireless to a non-broadcasting router with encryption because Mac network settings are labelled differently and configured differently from Windows network settings.I hope this doesn't sound insulting (it's really not intended to be) but did you do the "obvious" and google for something like "Mac wireless network configuration"?
Because it's taken me a while to realize that frequently google does better than the OS or Application help, and that if you just don't know where (which menu etc.
) an option is on a particular OS, then google does...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076086</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078230</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258017780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I tried MS SteadyState on my Son's computer, just as a precaution.  Expected it to be easy.  It was causually suggested... "Try MS SteadyState".<br>Found that it didn't really do what I wanted it to do and that it's configuration and setup was more complex than I was willing to deal with.<br>Then I found that uninstalling it to be fiasco.</p><p>Long story short, it is more complicated than "Try MS SteadyState".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I tried MS SteadyState on my Son 's computer , just as a precaution .
Expected it to be easy .
It was causually suggested... " Try MS SteadyState " .Found that it did n't really do what I wanted it to do and that it 's configuration and setup was more complex than I was willing to deal with.Then I found that uninstalling it to be fiasco.Long story short , it is more complicated than " Try MS SteadyState " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I tried MS SteadyState on my Son's computer, just as a precaution.
Expected it to be easy.
It was causually suggested... "Try MS SteadyState".Found that it didn't really do what I wanted it to do and that it's configuration and setup was more complex than I was willing to deal with.Then I found that uninstalling it to be fiasco.Long story short, it is more complicated than "Try MS SteadyState".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074676</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30081262</id>
	<title>My Response</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258029360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Family member: My computer is slow and full of viruses, can you do me a favor and fix it?</p><p>Me:  Sure, unplug the "CPU" and bring it to me.  It will take 1-2 hours, while you're waiting, you can do me a favor and clean my house.</p><p>Family member:  Oh, snap.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Family member : My computer is slow and full of viruses , can you do me a favor and fix it ? Me : Sure , unplug the " CPU " and bring it to me .
It will take 1-2 hours , while you 're waiting , you can do me a favor and clean my house.Family member : Oh , snap .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Family member: My computer is slow and full of viruses, can you do me a favor and fix it?Me:  Sure, unplug the "CPU" and bring it to me.
It will take 1-2 hours, while you're waiting, you can do me a favor and clean my house.Family member:  Oh, snap.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30083182</id>
	<title>Using ubuntu to make reinstall painless</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258043640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've found a method that works for me.  I install windows on their PC to a state that they are happy with, then I install ubuntu onto a smaller partition on the same hard drive, give it about 6-10 gigs of space.  Then I change<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/boot/grub/menu.lst so that windows boots by default.  Then I use partimage to image the windows partition.  Then I set up an icon on the ubuntu desktop which automatically runs partimage and restores the windows partition from the backed up image.</p><p>I did this for my sister, and she ended up restoring windows every 3 months, she preferred how a fresh install would run quicker.  It would take about 20 minutes to restore the whole partition, and windows would be clean and installed with all the applications she uses regularly.  She would back up her data files to an external USB drive.</p><p>Another option is to use Ubuntu as the host OS, and Windows as the guest OS.  I use VirtualBox to run Windows inside Ubuntu.  I have a disk image in Virtual Box which is a basic install.  I change it into an immutable image.  Whenever I want a new Windows guest, I use this basic image as the base image.  Each new guest then only has to store the difference from the base image.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've found a method that works for me .
I install windows on their PC to a state that they are happy with , then I install ubuntu onto a smaller partition on the same hard drive , give it about 6-10 gigs of space .
Then I change /boot/grub/menu.lst so that windows boots by default .
Then I use partimage to image the windows partition .
Then I set up an icon on the ubuntu desktop which automatically runs partimage and restores the windows partition from the backed up image.I did this for my sister , and she ended up restoring windows every 3 months , she preferred how a fresh install would run quicker .
It would take about 20 minutes to restore the whole partition , and windows would be clean and installed with all the applications she uses regularly .
She would back up her data files to an external USB drive.Another option is to use Ubuntu as the host OS , and Windows as the guest OS .
I use VirtualBox to run Windows inside Ubuntu .
I have a disk image in Virtual Box which is a basic install .
I change it into an immutable image .
Whenever I want a new Windows guest , I use this basic image as the base image .
Each new guest then only has to store the difference from the base image .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've found a method that works for me.
I install windows on their PC to a state that they are happy with, then I install ubuntu onto a smaller partition on the same hard drive, give it about 6-10 gigs of space.
Then I change /boot/grub/menu.lst so that windows boots by default.
Then I use partimage to image the windows partition.
Then I set up an icon on the ubuntu desktop which automatically runs partimage and restores the windows partition from the backed up image.I did this for my sister, and she ended up restoring windows every 3 months, she preferred how a fresh install would run quicker.
It would take about 20 minutes to restore the whole partition, and windows would be clean and installed with all the applications she uses regularly.
She would back up her data files to an external USB drive.Another option is to use Ubuntu as the host OS, and Windows as the guest OS.
I use VirtualBox to run Windows inside Ubuntu.
I have a disk image in Virtual Box which is a basic install.
I change it into an immutable image.
Whenever I want a new Windows guest, I use this basic image as the base image.
Each new guest then only has to store the difference from the base image.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075448</id>
	<title>take away admin rights</title>
	<author>obarthelemy</author>
	<datestamp>1258051560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My parents no longer have admin rights on their own PC. It takes me much less time to remote connect and install whatever stuff they want, than to clean up their wesses... every other week.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My parents no longer have admin rights on their own PC .
It takes me much less time to remote connect and install whatever stuff they want , than to clean up their wesses... every other week .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My parents no longer have admin rights on their own PC.
It takes me much less time to remote connect and install whatever stuff they want, than to clean up their wesses... every other week.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074898</id>
	<title>Oblig. XKCD</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258050120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Give them all <a href="http://www.xkcd.com/627/" title="xkcd.com">this</a> [xkcd.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Give them all this [ xkcd.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Give them all this [xkcd.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077746</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>icebike</author>
	<datestamp>1258059180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Exactly.</p><p>For the home PC users it is by far the best solution to the family tech support issue.  All they really want is web and email anyway.</p><p>If they are competent enough to own an ipod or iphone you might consider a Mac, because iTunes does not play well with Linux.</p><p>But for your parents and grand parents, since all they use is Firefox (even for email) Ubuntu is the way to go.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly.For the home PC users it is by far the best solution to the family tech support issue .
All they really want is web and email anyway.If they are competent enough to own an ipod or iphone you might consider a Mac , because iTunes does not play well with Linux.But for your parents and grand parents , since all they use is Firefox ( even for email ) Ubuntu is the way to go .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly.For the home PC users it is by far the best solution to the family tech support issue.
All they really want is web and email anyway.If they are competent enough to own an ipod or iphone you might consider a Mac, because iTunes does not play well with Linux.But for your parents and grand parents, since all they use is Firefox (even for email) Ubuntu is the way to go.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075496</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30084106</id>
	<title>Re:Give Up</title>
	<author>Shaper of Myths</author>
	<datestamp>1258054860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have family scattered to the four winds and my method for maintaining their systems uses the following:</p><p>Hamachi (set up to run as a service) - separate networks for various arms of the family<br>UltraVNC (also running as a service) - so I can connect remotely if I need to<br>AVG/Microsoft Security Essentials - basic antivirus<br>Firefox w/Adblock Plus &amp; Web of Trust<br>Routers set up to use OpenDNS with custom filters (depending on their needs)<br>Disabling/removing Internet Explorer if at all possible (this usually involves 5 minutes of explaining that the blue E stands for Evil)...=)</p><p>With all of the above running the only thing I usually end up fixing is the casual settings-based things or dealing with the occasional hardware failure...YMMV of course...=)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have family scattered to the four winds and my method for maintaining their systems uses the following : Hamachi ( set up to run as a service ) - separate networks for various arms of the familyUltraVNC ( also running as a service ) - so I can connect remotely if I need toAVG/Microsoft Security Essentials - basic antivirusFirefox w/Adblock Plus &amp; Web of TrustRouters set up to use OpenDNS with custom filters ( depending on their needs ) Disabling/removing Internet Explorer if at all possible ( this usually involves 5 minutes of explaining that the blue E stands for Evil ) ... = ) With all of the above running the only thing I usually end up fixing is the casual settings-based things or dealing with the occasional hardware failure...YMMV of course... = )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have family scattered to the four winds and my method for maintaining their systems uses the following:Hamachi (set up to run as a service) - separate networks for various arms of the familyUltraVNC (also running as a service) - so I can connect remotely if I need toAVG/Microsoft Security Essentials - basic antivirusFirefox w/Adblock Plus &amp; Web of TrustRouters set up to use OpenDNS with custom filters (depending on their needs)Disabling/removing Internet Explorer if at all possible (this usually involves 5 minutes of explaining that the blue E stands for Evil)...=)With all of the above running the only thing I usually end up fixing is the casual settings-based things or dealing with the occasional hardware failure...YMMV of course...=)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074674</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30091814</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>LukeWebber</author>
	<datestamp>1258106820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My daughter threatened to buy a Mac and I told her that I <i>couldn't</i> support it, because I just don't know about Macs.
</p><p>OTOH, just by installing a router with a half decent firewall to block inbound connections, and running Firefox in place of IE, my household has been free of infection for about three years now.
Works for me.
</p><p>Oh, and BTW, there's  great malware cleaner tool called <a href="http://www.combofix.org/" title="combofix.org" rel="nofollow">ComboFix</a> [combofix.org] that I've used for a friend. Made my job very easy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My daughter threatened to buy a Mac and I told her that I could n't support it , because I just do n't know about Macs .
OTOH , just by installing a router with a half decent firewall to block inbound connections , and running Firefox in place of IE , my household has been free of infection for about three years now .
Works for me .
Oh , and BTW , there 's great malware cleaner tool called ComboFix [ combofix.org ] that I 've used for a friend .
Made my job very easy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My daughter threatened to buy a Mac and I told her that I couldn't support it, because I just don't know about Macs.
OTOH, just by installing a router with a half decent firewall to block inbound connections, and running Firefox in place of IE, my household has been free of infection for about three years now.
Works for me.
Oh, and BTW, there's  great malware cleaner tool called ComboFix [combofix.org] that I've used for a friend.
Made my job very easy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075962</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30086554</id>
	<title>Re:Correct User Access</title>
	<author>Cro Magnon</author>
	<datestamp>1258126680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The only issue is Firefox updating. On Windows XP, Firefox cannot update itself when running in a non-admin account. (Bugzilla:407875) Probably means my brother is running a months-old Firefox..</p></div></blockquote><p>IIRC, FF updates trigger Vista's UAC.  I ASSume it would have similar issues with Win7 non-admin accounts.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only issue is Firefox updating .
On Windows XP , Firefox can not update itself when running in a non-admin account .
( Bugzilla : 407875 ) Probably means my brother is running a months-old Firefox..IIRC , FF updates trigger Vista 's UAC .
I ASSume it would have similar issues with Win7 non-admin accounts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only issue is Firefox updating.
On Windows XP, Firefox cannot update itself when running in a non-admin account.
(Bugzilla:407875) Probably means my brother is running a months-old Firefox..IIRC, FF updates trigger Vista's UAC.
I ASSume it would have similar issues with Win7 non-admin accounts.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075546</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078172</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258017540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I carry an IT pager, have for a while.</p><p>In a group of friends that my wife used to have, one of them asked quite pretentiously...</p><p>Ohh...Is he a doctor?<br>Yes, a *computer* doctor.</p><p>I laughed</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I carry an IT pager , have for a while.In a group of friends that my wife used to have , one of them asked quite pretentiously...Ohh...Is he a doctor ? Yes , a * computer * doctor.I laughed</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I carry an IT pager, have for a while.In a group of friends that my wife used to have, one of them asked quite pretentiously...Ohh...Is he a doctor?Yes, a *computer* doctor.I laughed</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30080428</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258025580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How's that working for your sex life?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How 's that working for your sex life ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How's that working for your sex life?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077174</id>
	<title>Re:Buy them a Mac</title>
	<author>rearden</author>
	<datestamp>1258057200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Did not work for me. I got tired of my Mom having problems &amp; bought her a Mac. It took only three months for her to be really frustrated by the difficulty she was having in getting things to work software wise- she did not want to learn a different app, she wanted to use the same one her friends had. Then there was the case of software she wanted not being available- especially apps that require data exchanges with others. She does genealogy work for the family but it went poorly on the MAC.<br><br>What ended up happening was she got Parallels from the Apple store (their recommendation) and now she just has problems with the Windows on her Mac. Now she just has a very expensive PC... *sigh*<br><br>The point- make sure moves to Ubuntu &amp; MAC will work for your users. If you are not the ONLY person they talk to about their PC then a change in OS may not work.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Did not work for me .
I got tired of my Mom having problems &amp; bought her a Mac .
It took only three months for her to be really frustrated by the difficulty she was having in getting things to work software wise- she did not want to learn a different app , she wanted to use the same one her friends had .
Then there was the case of software she wanted not being available- especially apps that require data exchanges with others .
She does genealogy work for the family but it went poorly on the MAC.What ended up happening was she got Parallels from the Apple store ( their recommendation ) and now she just has problems with the Windows on her Mac .
Now she just has a very expensive PC... * sigh * The point- make sure moves to Ubuntu &amp; MAC will work for your users .
If you are not the ONLY person they talk to about their PC then a change in OS may not work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did not work for me.
I got tired of my Mom having problems &amp; bought her a Mac.
It took only three months for her to be really frustrated by the difficulty she was having in getting things to work software wise- she did not want to learn a different app, she wanted to use the same one her friends had.
Then there was the case of software she wanted not being available- especially apps that require data exchanges with others.
She does genealogy work for the family but it went poorly on the MAC.What ended up happening was she got Parallels from the Apple store (their recommendation) and now she just has problems with the Windows on her Mac.
Now she just has a very expensive PC... *sigh*The point- make sure moves to Ubuntu &amp; MAC will work for your users.
If you are not the ONLY person they talk to about their PC then a change in OS may not work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074696</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078838</id>
	<title>Get them to try Ubuntu 9.10 for a fortnight</title>
	<author>myxiplx</author>
	<datestamp>1258020060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously, 9.10 has its rough points, but it's worth a try.  I've just installed it for my mother in law, it runs Facebook games fine, so she's happy<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>It's far, far quicker than windows, and doesn't suffer from viruses to anything like the same extent.  She was amazed at the simple things like how quickly it shuts down.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously , 9.10 has its rough points , but it 's worth a try .
I 've just installed it for my mother in law , it runs Facebook games fine , so she 's happy : ) It 's far , far quicker than windows , and does n't suffer from viruses to anything like the same extent .
She was amazed at the simple things like how quickly it shuts down .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously, 9.10 has its rough points, but it's worth a try.
I've just installed it for my mother in law, it runs Facebook games fine, so she's happy :)It's far, far quicker than windows, and doesn't suffer from viruses to anything like the same extent.
She was amazed at the simple things like how quickly it shuts down.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078394</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258018440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know you got modded as funny but this is actually what I do.</p><p>I got the wife &amp; my aging mother a mac. Neither now bother me with issues. Previously with windows every 2-3 days they had installed something they shouldn't of, or had a friend who installed something they shouldn't of.</p><p>After I got the Mac, I used the excuse I don't know windows anymore. Only the mother ever pulled me up on it at which point I spelt out how sick I was of people using me as free repair shop.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know you got modded as funny but this is actually what I do.I got the wife &amp; my aging mother a mac .
Neither now bother me with issues .
Previously with windows every 2-3 days they had installed something they should n't of , or had a friend who installed something they should n't of.After I got the Mac , I used the excuse I do n't know windows anymore .
Only the mother ever pulled me up on it at which point I spelt out how sick I was of people using me as free repair shop .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know you got modded as funny but this is actually what I do.I got the wife &amp; my aging mother a mac.
Neither now bother me with issues.
Previously with windows every 2-3 days they had installed something they shouldn't of, or had a friend who installed something they shouldn't of.After I got the Mac, I used the excuse I don't know windows anymore.
Only the mother ever pulled me up on it at which point I spelt out how sick I was of people using me as free repair shop.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075552</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074830</id>
	<title>You have the control, so use it!</title>
	<author>donaggie03</author>
	<datestamp>1258050000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>It sounds like you have all the control here, so simply lock down those computers.  Install a decent anti-virus, firewall, and script blockers. Install a decent web browser and delete the IE icon on the desktop. Ensure all these and the OS are able to update themselves automatically.  Install the programs your family uses.  Then create a non-admin account for them and do not give them the admin password.  That's what I've been doing and the only problems I've had to deal with in the last few years were a hard drive crash and some minor issues.  If they need to install a new program or need the admin password for any reason, they have to go through me to get it done.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It sounds like you have all the control here , so simply lock down those computers .
Install a decent anti-virus , firewall , and script blockers .
Install a decent web browser and delete the IE icon on the desktop .
Ensure all these and the OS are able to update themselves automatically .
Install the programs your family uses .
Then create a non-admin account for them and do not give them the admin password .
That 's what I 've been doing and the only problems I 've had to deal with in the last few years were a hard drive crash and some minor issues .
If they need to install a new program or need the admin password for any reason , they have to go through me to get it done .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It sounds like you have all the control here, so simply lock down those computers.
Install a decent anti-virus, firewall, and script blockers.
Install a decent web browser and delete the IE icon on the desktop.
Ensure all these and the OS are able to update themselves automatically.
Install the programs your family uses.
Then create a non-admin account for them and do not give them the admin password.
That's what I've been doing and the only problems I've had to deal with in the last few years were a hard drive crash and some minor issues.
If they need to install a new program or need the admin password for any reason, they have to go through me to get it done.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075198</id>
	<title>Re:Install Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Narpak</author>
	<datestamp>1258050900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> My question for Slashdot is: are there any resources out there that explain computer viruses, malware, adware, and general safe computer practices to non-technical people in an easy-to-digest format?</p></div><p>Each time you run a file downloaded from the internet a kitten dies. There job done.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>My question for Slashdot is : are there any resources out there that explain computer viruses , malware , adware , and general safe computer practices to non-technical people in an easy-to-digest format ? Each time you run a file downloaded from the internet a kitten dies .
There job done .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> My question for Slashdot is: are there any resources out there that explain computer viruses, malware, adware, and general safe computer practices to non-technical people in an easy-to-digest format?Each time you run a file downloaded from the internet a kitten dies.
There job done.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074680</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30081436</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>f\_raze13</author>
	<datestamp>1258030320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>While I'm not arguing with the fact that what you suggested might fix the problem, that wasn't what the poster was asking.  Being "introduced to computers at a very young age," the poster no doubt already knows about the lack of viruses on Macs.  However, even with this knowledge, he asked slashdot about resources for teaching his family safe computing practices on PCs.  This might indicate that he actually has a reason for choosing to stick with PCs over switching to Macs.  It might be nice to actually respect his choice and instead actually answer his question.</htmltext>
<tokenext>While I 'm not arguing with the fact that what you suggested might fix the problem , that was n't what the poster was asking .
Being " introduced to computers at a very young age , " the poster no doubt already knows about the lack of viruses on Macs .
However , even with this knowledge , he asked slashdot about resources for teaching his family safe computing practices on PCs .
This might indicate that he actually has a reason for choosing to stick with PCs over switching to Macs .
It might be nice to actually respect his choice and instead actually answer his question .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While I'm not arguing with the fact that what you suggested might fix the problem, that wasn't what the poster was asking.
Being "introduced to computers at a very young age," the poster no doubt already knows about the lack of viruses on Macs.
However, even with this knowledge, he asked slashdot about resources for teaching his family safe computing practices on PCs.
This might indicate that he actually has a reason for choosing to stick with PCs over switching to Macs.
It might be nice to actually respect his choice and instead actually answer his question.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077180</id>
	<title>Re:Related question</title>
	<author>jank1887</author>
	<datestamp>1258057200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>after 6 months you may not be looking at it at all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>after 6 months you may not be looking at it at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>after 6 months you may not be looking at it at all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074704</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30080528</id>
	<title>Buyamac tag doesn't work</title>
	<author>stewbacca</author>
	<datestamp>1258025940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to think "just have them buy a Mac" would make my family stop asking me for help. Instead, they ask for even MORE help since it's such a weird, foreign landscape for them. Think of it this way...people who suck with computers and have spent 15 years getting dangerously competent with Windows now have to basically start over. It's not starting over for any tech savvy person to switch to a Mac, but for computer morons like my family, it just opens more, NEW questions. Thankfully though very few of the questions deal with technical things I can't figure out, or I don't have the patience for.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to think " just have them buy a Mac " would make my family stop asking me for help .
Instead , they ask for even MORE help since it 's such a weird , foreign landscape for them .
Think of it this way...people who suck with computers and have spent 15 years getting dangerously competent with Windows now have to basically start over .
It 's not starting over for any tech savvy person to switch to a Mac , but for computer morons like my family , it just opens more , NEW questions .
Thankfully though very few of the questions deal with technical things I ca n't figure out , or I do n't have the patience for .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to think "just have them buy a Mac" would make my family stop asking me for help.
Instead, they ask for even MORE help since it's such a weird, foreign landscape for them.
Think of it this way...people who suck with computers and have spent 15 years getting dangerously competent with Windows now have to basically start over.
It's not starting over for any tech savvy person to switch to a Mac, but for computer morons like my family, it just opens more, NEW questions.
Thankfully though very few of the questions deal with technical things I can't figure out, or I don't have the patience for.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074994</id>
	<title>A friend in your situation ...</title>
	<author>drissel</author>
	<datestamp>1258050300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A friend in your situation put his parents and grandparents on live CD's.  Trouble over.  One grandfather objected because he wanted to save emails and a local store advertised "Recovery Services."  My friend referred the old man to the store.  With Gmail and Google Docs, web browsers, email correspondents and light-duty word processors don't need local storage.  Viruses can't infect a CD Rom.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A friend in your situation put his parents and grandparents on live CD 's .
Trouble over .
One grandfather objected because he wanted to save emails and a local store advertised " Recovery Services .
" My friend referred the old man to the store .
With Gmail and Google Docs , web browsers , email correspondents and light-duty word processors do n't need local storage .
Viruses ca n't infect a CD Rom .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A friend in your situation put his parents and grandparents on live CD's.
Trouble over.
One grandfather objected because he wanted to save emails and a local store advertised "Recovery Services.
"  My friend referred the old man to the store.
With Gmail and Google Docs, web browsers, email correspondents and light-duty word processors don't need local storage.
Viruses can't infect a CD Rom.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075988</id>
	<title>Re:Only every 8 months? Lucky.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258053240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Most of our computers are macs, with my parents iMac running XP in bootcamp, cuz they use an older version of quicken for money. That's the one reason they have it... We have approximately 8-9 macs, including an old performa... ah, the memories! However, two years ago my parents purchased these $500 compaqs... NOOO... They are pretty lame computers, underpowered(even with my upgraded ram), and basically suck, plus they run vista home basic. LAME! So, I convinced my parents to allow me to put Ubuntu on one of them, just a dual boot. Guess what? After giving them all a quick intro to grub(so they could switch between vista and ubuntu), and about 2 minutes of the desktop interface, they all love it, and refuse to use vista. !! victory!! This includes my sister, who once wrote a blog entitled "The magic of computers... ooooh!!! shiny.". Yeah, she's not very tech savvy, but she is able to use it... I'm working on my dad(who is pretty good with computers, definitely a power user, just not a nerd) to allow me to totally wipe those laptops... Maybe if they get rid of them, I cld fix em up as servers...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:D</htmltext>
<tokenext>Most of our computers are macs , with my parents iMac running XP in bootcamp , cuz they use an older version of quicken for money .
That 's the one reason they have it... We have approximately 8-9 macs , including an old performa... ah , the memories !
However , two years ago my parents purchased these $ 500 compaqs... NOOO... They are pretty lame computers , underpowered ( even with my upgraded ram ) , and basically suck , plus they run vista home basic .
LAME ! So , I convinced my parents to allow me to put Ubuntu on one of them , just a dual boot .
Guess what ?
After giving them all a quick intro to grub ( so they could switch between vista and ubuntu ) , and about 2 minutes of the desktop interface , they all love it , and refuse to use vista .
! ! victory ! !
This includes my sister , who once wrote a blog entitled " The magic of computers.. .
ooooh ! ! ! shiny. " .
Yeah , she 's not very tech savvy , but she is able to use it... I 'm working on my dad ( who is pretty good with computers , definitely a power user , just not a nerd ) to allow me to totally wipe those laptops... Maybe if they get rid of them , I cld fix em up as servers... : D</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most of our computers are macs, with my parents iMac running XP in bootcamp, cuz they use an older version of quicken for money.
That's the one reason they have it... We have approximately 8-9 macs, including an old performa... ah, the memories!
However, two years ago my parents purchased these $500 compaqs... NOOO... They are pretty lame computers, underpowered(even with my upgraded ram), and basically suck, plus they run vista home basic.
LAME! So, I convinced my parents to allow me to put Ubuntu on one of them, just a dual boot.
Guess what?
After giving them all a quick intro to grub(so they could switch between vista and ubuntu), and about 2 minutes of the desktop interface, they all love it, and refuse to use vista.
!! victory!!
This includes my sister, who once wrote a blog entitled "The magic of computers...
ooooh!!! shiny.".
Yeah, she's not very tech savvy, but she is able to use it... I'm working on my dad(who is pretty good with computers, definitely a power user, just not a nerd) to allow me to totally wipe those laptops... Maybe if they get rid of them, I cld fix em up as servers... :D</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074810</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076438</id>
	<title>Why are you giving them the ability to screw up?</title>
	<author>drew\_92123</author>
	<datestamp>1258054620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously dude, after the second time you should have removed their admin or power user rights and given them a standard user account.  Then install a decent antivirus that you can prevent them from changing the settings on and force daily virus/malware scans.  Also, once the account is setup the way they like it, login as an admin and create a backup of their profile... or use any number of free backup solutions to create nightly backups and/or create nightly/daily restore points.</p><p>I hate to tell you this, but knowing what you know about how they use their computer, it's YOUR fault that they keep having this problem.  99\% of the time you can prevent bad users from creating these problems or at least make the recovery a heck of a lot easier on yourself.</p><p>Buy a sysadmin for dummies book or something, learn a little about backups and malware/virus prevention.  Learn to tell your users that it's for their own good(as well as yours).  And if they don't like it, tell them to ask somebody else for help(a little harder with family, but still VERY effective to get your point accross).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously dude , after the second time you should have removed their admin or power user rights and given them a standard user account .
Then install a decent antivirus that you can prevent them from changing the settings on and force daily virus/malware scans .
Also , once the account is setup the way they like it , login as an admin and create a backup of their profile... or use any number of free backup solutions to create nightly backups and/or create nightly/daily restore points.I hate to tell you this , but knowing what you know about how they use their computer , it 's YOUR fault that they keep having this problem .
99 \ % of the time you can prevent bad users from creating these problems or at least make the recovery a heck of a lot easier on yourself.Buy a sysadmin for dummies book or something , learn a little about backups and malware/virus prevention .
Learn to tell your users that it 's for their own good ( as well as yours ) .
And if they do n't like it , tell them to ask somebody else for help ( a little harder with family , but still VERY effective to get your point accross ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously dude, after the second time you should have removed their admin or power user rights and given them a standard user account.
Then install a decent antivirus that you can prevent them from changing the settings on and force daily virus/malware scans.
Also, once the account is setup the way they like it, login as an admin and create a backup of their profile... or use any number of free backup solutions to create nightly backups and/or create nightly/daily restore points.I hate to tell you this, but knowing what you know about how they use their computer, it's YOUR fault that they keep having this problem.
99\% of the time you can prevent bad users from creating these problems or at least make the recovery a heck of a lot easier on yourself.Buy a sysadmin for dummies book or something, learn a little about backups and malware/virus prevention.
Learn to tell your users that it's for their own good(as well as yours).
And if they don't like it, tell them to ask somebody else for help(a little harder with family, but still VERY effective to get your point accross).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077788</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>tompaulco</author>
	<datestamp>1258059300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>get them all macs</i>.
<br>
That seems like a great solution. After all, I know next to nothing about Macs, therefore when their Macs have problems they'll have to go to someone else to deal with it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>get them all macs .
That seems like a great solution .
After all , I know next to nothing about Macs , therefore when their Macs have problems they 'll have to go to someone else to deal with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>get them all macs.
That seems like a great solution.
After all, I know next to nothing about Macs, therefore when their Macs have problems they'll have to go to someone else to deal with it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078662</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258019400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here is the link to an article on Cert.Org...It is very helpful and easy to understand for home users: http://www.cert.org/homeusers/HomeComputerSecurity/#thinking</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here is the link to an article on Cert.Org...It is very helpful and easy to understand for home users : http : //www.cert.org/homeusers/HomeComputerSecurity/ # thinking</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here is the link to an article on Cert.Org...It is very helpful and easy to understand for home users: http://www.cert.org/homeusers/HomeComputerSecurity/#thinking</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30079704</id>
	<title>Re:Lock it down</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258023000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I did that for my parents, and put an admin user on "only for when you need it."</p><p>They used the admin account to make their account admins.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:'(</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I did that for my parents , and put an admin user on " only for when you need it .
" They used the admin account to make their account admins .
: ' (</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I did that for my parents, and put an admin user on "only for when you need it.
"They used the admin account to make their account admins.
:'(</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074926</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30090822</id>
	<title>Non Admin accounts</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258145340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Set them up with low privelege accounts.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Set them up with low privelege accounts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Set them up with low privelege accounts.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075552</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>TheRaven64</author>
	<datestamp>1258051800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Or just get yourself a Mac and then claim you don't understand 'that Windows thing'.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Or just get yourself a Mac and then claim you do n't understand 'that Windows thing' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or just get yourself a Mac and then claim you don't understand 'that Windows thing'.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076528</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>SydShamino</author>
	<datestamp>1258054920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I bought my dad a mac.  Alas, he didn't use it at first, preferring instead to stay on his old, infected Dell.  Eventually though my mom asked me to set it up for her, and simultaneously the Dell slowed past use, and my dad moved over.</p><p>It's much, much better now.  The constant stream of issues is gone, and now it's usually just a simple question about something that he could do on the Dell but couldn't figure out how to do any more, and I could show him how and be done with it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I bought my dad a mac .
Alas , he did n't use it at first , preferring instead to stay on his old , infected Dell .
Eventually though my mom asked me to set it up for her , and simultaneously the Dell slowed past use , and my dad moved over.It 's much , much better now .
The constant stream of issues is gone , and now it 's usually just a simple question about something that he could do on the Dell but could n't figure out how to do any more , and I could show him how and be done with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I bought my dad a mac.
Alas, he didn't use it at first, preferring instead to stay on his old, infected Dell.
Eventually though my mom asked me to set it up for her, and simultaneously the Dell slowed past use, and my dad moved over.It's much, much better now.
The constant stream of issues is gone, and now it's usually just a simple question about something that he could do on the Dell but couldn't figure out how to do any more, and I could show him how and be done with it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076642</id>
	<title>Re:Lessons learned from too many years in that rol</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258055340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or, simply:<br>* Switch them to a Mac</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or , simply : * Switch them to a Mac</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or, simply:* Switch them to a Mac</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075202</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076130</id>
	<title>Virtual Machines for browsing, and</title>
	<author>puddles</author>
	<datestamp>1258053660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>when something goes wrong, roll back to pristine VM image.  Keep the host running something sane, and not use the host to browse the web at all.  This should reduce your Family Tech Support workload drastically.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>when something goes wrong , roll back to pristine VM image .
Keep the host running something sane , and not use the host to browse the web at all .
This should reduce your Family Tech Support workload drastically .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>when something goes wrong, roll back to pristine VM image.
Keep the host running something sane, and not use the host to browse the web at all.
This should reduce your Family Tech Support workload drastically.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30079024</id>
	<title>Auto-reload every day</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258020780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Reload a fresh install image of the OS automatically every morning after redirecting "My Documents" elsewhere to save their files? There's a utility out there that does this but the name escapes me...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Reload a fresh install image of the OS automatically every morning after redirecting " My Documents " elsewhere to save their files ?
There 's a utility out there that does this but the name escapes me.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Reload a fresh install image of the OS automatically every morning after redirecting "My Documents" elsewhere to save their files?
There's a utility out there that does this but the name escapes me...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077600</id>
	<title>you can't win</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258058760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I tried the switch-them-to-mac route.  It delayed the support requests for a longer period of time, but when an issue finally came up (the entire OS running 'slow' or sometimes it can't get online) I could do very little to correct it.  At least Windows is fixable.  OSX operates as more of an inigma, especially when Apple releases an update that straight up breaks it (airport, keychain, etc).</p><p>We can't win this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I tried the switch-them-to-mac route .
It delayed the support requests for a longer period of time , but when an issue finally came up ( the entire OS running 'slow ' or sometimes it ca n't get online ) I could do very little to correct it .
At least Windows is fixable .
OSX operates as more of an inigma , especially when Apple releases an update that straight up breaks it ( airport , keychain , etc ) .We ca n't win this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I tried the switch-them-to-mac route.
It delayed the support requests for a longer period of time, but when an issue finally came up (the entire OS running 'slow' or sometimes it can't get online) I could do very little to correct it.
At least Windows is fixable.
OSX operates as more of an inigma, especially when Apple releases an update that straight up breaks it (airport, keychain, etc).We can't win this.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077486</id>
	<title>Someone tagged this as 'buyamac'</title>
	<author>trayrace</author>
	<datestamp>1258058280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And he's right, kinda. It's the easy but expensive way.</p><p>I bought an used CRT iMac for my grandparents for basic web browsing couple of years ago. Last year, when my other grandfather needed a laptop to replace his ten year old PC, I suggested him to buy the cheapest MacBook available. And this week my mom needed a new computer to replace her ancient laptop, I suggested her a MacBook, too. Guess why?</p><p>Even they're expensive, they're really the "install and forget" kind of computers, if automatic updates and firewall are configured. I guess I could buy a cheap Acer laptop and install Ubuntu on that, but I just don't have time for troubleshooting all the issues that might arise. And yes I have tried, thank you for asking, installing various versions of Linux to friends or family, but there's always some little glitch that takes just too much time troubleshooting. And trying to tell people that OpenOffice is just as good for home use as Microsoft Office...</p><p>Just my 2 euro cents.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And he 's right , kinda .
It 's the easy but expensive way.I bought an used CRT iMac for my grandparents for basic web browsing couple of years ago .
Last year , when my other grandfather needed a laptop to replace his ten year old PC , I suggested him to buy the cheapest MacBook available .
And this week my mom needed a new computer to replace her ancient laptop , I suggested her a MacBook , too .
Guess why ? Even they 're expensive , they 're really the " install and forget " kind of computers , if automatic updates and firewall are configured .
I guess I could buy a cheap Acer laptop and install Ubuntu on that , but I just do n't have time for troubleshooting all the issues that might arise .
And yes I have tried , thank you for asking , installing various versions of Linux to friends or family , but there 's always some little glitch that takes just too much time troubleshooting .
And trying to tell people that OpenOffice is just as good for home use as Microsoft Office...Just my 2 euro cents .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And he's right, kinda.
It's the easy but expensive way.I bought an used CRT iMac for my grandparents for basic web browsing couple of years ago.
Last year, when my other grandfather needed a laptop to replace his ten year old PC, I suggested him to buy the cheapest MacBook available.
And this week my mom needed a new computer to replace her ancient laptop, I suggested her a MacBook, too.
Guess why?Even they're expensive, they're really the "install and forget" kind of computers, if automatic updates and firewall are configured.
I guess I could buy a cheap Acer laptop and install Ubuntu on that, but I just don't have time for troubleshooting all the issues that might arise.
And yes I have tried, thank you for asking, installing various versions of Linux to friends or family, but there's always some little glitch that takes just too much time troubleshooting.
And trying to tell people that OpenOffice is just as good for home use as Microsoft Office...Just my 2 euro cents.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075538</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>Blenster</author>
	<datestamp>1258051800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I just have to comment on the irony of saying they shouldn't install linux because they won't be able to run Windows software and then suggesting they buy a Mac.  Which also don't run Windows software apps.  [grin]

Personally I've been installing Ubuntu on machines I have to service regularly and then *presto* I don't have to service them for malware regularly.  I have not had a single person want to switch back and the least technical users are the ones who seem to love it the most.  I've converted teenagers, housewives, and even a law office to Ubuntu and they all love it.  Turn on some of the eye-candy that Windows doesn't do "out of the box" and point them at their e-mail and web-browser/office software and then let them enjoy that machine.  I have a lot less family/friend malware removal now!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I just have to comment on the irony of saying they should n't install linux because they wo n't be able to run Windows software and then suggesting they buy a Mac .
Which also do n't run Windows software apps .
[ grin ] Personally I 've been installing Ubuntu on machines I have to service regularly and then * presto * I do n't have to service them for malware regularly .
I have not had a single person want to switch back and the least technical users are the ones who seem to love it the most .
I 've converted teenagers , housewives , and even a law office to Ubuntu and they all love it .
Turn on some of the eye-candy that Windows does n't do " out of the box " and point them at their e-mail and web-browser/office software and then let them enjoy that machine .
I have a lot less family/friend malware removal now !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just have to comment on the irony of saying they shouldn't install linux because they won't be able to run Windows software and then suggesting they buy a Mac.
Which also don't run Windows software apps.
[grin]

Personally I've been installing Ubuntu on machines I have to service regularly and then *presto* I don't have to service them for malware regularly.
I have not had a single person want to switch back and the least technical users are the ones who seem to love it the most.
I've converted teenagers, housewives, and even a law office to Ubuntu and they all love it.
Turn on some of the eye-candy that Windows doesn't do "out of the box" and point them at their e-mail and web-browser/office software and then let them enjoy that machine.
I have a lot less family/friend malware removal now!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074886</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076782</id>
	<title>Securing Windows</title>
	<author>dwheeler</author>
	<datestamp>1258055820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you're running Windows, you might take a look at <a href="http://www.dwheeler.com/essays/securing-windows.html" title="dwheeler.com">this page on securing Microsoft Windows</a> [dwheeler.com].  It might not SOLVE the problem, but it might help.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're running Windows , you might take a look at this page on securing Microsoft Windows [ dwheeler.com ] .
It might not SOLVE the problem , but it might help .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're running Windows, you might take a look at this page on securing Microsoft Windows [dwheeler.com].
It might not SOLVE the problem, but it might help.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075708</id>
	<title>buyamac tag</title>
	<author>CODiNE</author>
	<datestamp>1258052340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Alright I know it's not the solution to everything but in some cases it's a good answer.  My experience was like this, dad would buy some no-name box for mom to use, I'd set it up and then every single day she'd get some pop-up dialog box and make me answer it for her. Somehow she'd always find how to get weird little errors and she'd freeze.  A few months later, dad would buy a new computer, and the cycle continued.  Eventually mom noticed the iBook I had and wanted a Mac.  Dad wouldn't put up with the extra cost and got yet another generic box for her.  Finally after that one went the same way I convinced him to get a refurb as it's cheaper and I'd even pay part of the price.</p><p>Finally he relented and she got an eMac.  All the sudden the woman who hated computers loved them, people come over and she'd force them to look at her iPhoto album.  Years later she now has an iMac and is working on scanning in her old photo albums, she emails and uses the web.  So for some reason the different OS did the trick for her. Perhaps it stays out of the way better, or is more visually oriented I don't know, but after she got that eMac she never had any problems again... for years.</p><p>Anyways, I say this as a Linux/Windows/Mac user with a Mac preference.  Use the right tool for the job, some people need different tools.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Alright I know it 's not the solution to everything but in some cases it 's a good answer .
My experience was like this , dad would buy some no-name box for mom to use , I 'd set it up and then every single day she 'd get some pop-up dialog box and make me answer it for her .
Somehow she 'd always find how to get weird little errors and she 'd freeze .
A few months later , dad would buy a new computer , and the cycle continued .
Eventually mom noticed the iBook I had and wanted a Mac .
Dad would n't put up with the extra cost and got yet another generic box for her .
Finally after that one went the same way I convinced him to get a refurb as it 's cheaper and I 'd even pay part of the price.Finally he relented and she got an eMac .
All the sudden the woman who hated computers loved them , people come over and she 'd force them to look at her iPhoto album .
Years later she now has an iMac and is working on scanning in her old photo albums , she emails and uses the web .
So for some reason the different OS did the trick for her .
Perhaps it stays out of the way better , or is more visually oriented I do n't know , but after she got that eMac she never had any problems again... for years.Anyways , I say this as a Linux/Windows/Mac user with a Mac preference .
Use the right tool for the job , some people need different tools .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Alright I know it's not the solution to everything but in some cases it's a good answer.
My experience was like this, dad would buy some no-name box for mom to use, I'd set it up and then every single day she'd get some pop-up dialog box and make me answer it for her.
Somehow she'd always find how to get weird little errors and she'd freeze.
A few months later, dad would buy a new computer, and the cycle continued.
Eventually mom noticed the iBook I had and wanted a Mac.
Dad wouldn't put up with the extra cost and got yet another generic box for her.
Finally after that one went the same way I convinced him to get a refurb as it's cheaper and I'd even pay part of the price.Finally he relented and she got an eMac.
All the sudden the woman who hated computers loved them, people come over and she'd force them to look at her iPhoto album.
Years later she now has an iMac and is working on scanning in her old photo albums, she emails and uses the web.
So for some reason the different OS did the trick for her.
Perhaps it stays out of the way better, or is more visually oriented I don't know, but after she got that eMac she never had any problems again... for years.Anyways, I say this as a Linux/Windows/Mac user with a Mac preference.
Use the right tool for the job, some people need different tools.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076534</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>Mongoose Disciple</author>
	<datestamp>1258054920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's kinda true.</p><p>My father-in-law is tragically gifted at breaking computers, and when he had a Windows machine, we were doing tech support for him all the time.</p><p>Now he's got a Mac, and, you know?  He somehow manages to get crap on it and break it just as much, but now I can legitimately claim ignorance and it becomes the Apple Store's problem.  The Apple Geniuses loss is my gain.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's kinda true.My father-in-law is tragically gifted at breaking computers , and when he had a Windows machine , we were doing tech support for him all the time.Now he 's got a Mac , and , you know ?
He somehow manages to get crap on it and break it just as much , but now I can legitimately claim ignorance and it becomes the Apple Store 's problem .
The Apple Geniuses loss is my gain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's kinda true.My father-in-law is tragically gifted at breaking computers, and when he had a Windows machine, we were doing tech support for him all the time.Now he's got a Mac, and, you know?
He somehow manages to get crap on it and break it just as much, but now I can legitimately claim ignorance and it becomes the Apple Store's problem.
The Apple Geniuses loss is my gain.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075172</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258050840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Tried and it worked for a while, but some things didn't work very smoothly and were intermittent.  Printing (Canon's Linux driver support for their particular printer was really bad) and scanning (almost no driver from Canon) were two major issues.  Syncing with iPods was another major issue.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Tried and it worked for a while , but some things did n't work very smoothly and were intermittent .
Printing ( Canon 's Linux driver support for their particular printer was really bad ) and scanning ( almost no driver from Canon ) were two major issues .
Syncing with iPods was another major issue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tried and it worked for a while, but some things didn't work very smoothly and were intermittent.
Printing (Canon's Linux driver support for their particular printer was really bad) and scanning (almost no driver from Canon) were two major issues.
Syncing with iPods was another major issue.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074684</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075042</id>
	<title>Stop with the quick fixes!</title>
	<author>cybiko123</author>
	<datestamp>1258050360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Perhaps it didn't occur to anyone, but maybe switching to Ubuntu/Linux/OS X/[insert quick-fix OS] is not the best idea. One of the "security flaws" is a nine-year-old. Do you want to explain to him/her why running games doesn't work perfectly anymore (yes, I am aware of WINE)? Or why they can't play any of their iTunes-purchased songs?

IMHO, you can't fix stupidity by switching OSes. You fix stupidity by making people less stupid.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps it did n't occur to anyone , but maybe switching to Ubuntu/Linux/OS X/ [ insert quick-fix OS ] is not the best idea .
One of the " security flaws " is a nine-year-old .
Do you want to explain to him/her why running games does n't work perfectly anymore ( yes , I am aware of WINE ) ?
Or why they ca n't play any of their iTunes-purchased songs ?
IMHO , you ca n't fix stupidity by switching OSes .
You fix stupidity by making people less stupid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps it didn't occur to anyone, but maybe switching to Ubuntu/Linux/OS X/[insert quick-fix OS] is not the best idea.
One of the "security flaws" is a nine-year-old.
Do you want to explain to him/her why running games doesn't work perfectly anymore (yes, I am aware of WINE)?
Or why they can't play any of their iTunes-purchased songs?
IMHO, you can't fix stupidity by switching OSes.
You fix stupidity by making people less stupid.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30083190</id>
	<title>Re:Correct User Access</title>
	<author>nabsltd</author>
	<datestamp>1258043700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>On Windows XP, Firefox cannot update itself when running in a non-admin account. (<a href="https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show\_bug.cgi?id=407875" title="mozilla.org">Bugzilla:407875</a> [mozilla.org])</p></div><p>This is only true if Firefox is installed in the default location under \%ProgramFiles\%.</p><p>A non-admin user can install Firefox anywhere they have write permission, and then updates work fine.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>On Windows XP , Firefox can not update itself when running in a non-admin account .
( Bugzilla : 407875 [ mozilla.org ] ) This is only true if Firefox is installed in the default location under \ % ProgramFiles \ % .A non-admin user can install Firefox anywhere they have write permission , and then updates work fine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On Windows XP, Firefox cannot update itself when running in a non-admin account.
(Bugzilla:407875 [mozilla.org])This is only true if Firefox is installed in the default location under \%ProgramFiles\%.A non-admin user can install Firefox anywhere they have write permission, and then updates work fine.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075546</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075116</id>
	<title>real easy- limited accounts</title>
	<author>Helix150</author>
	<datestamp>1258050600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>this really isnt that hard.</p><p>1. do a fresh windows install<br>2. install AVG free antivirus, etc etc<br>3. Make the only account that has admin access be in your name.  Put a password on it.  Don't tell them what it is.<br>4. Make accounts for each of them, all Limited accounts.<br>5. back up the computer (take an image file).</p><p>Now if they screw it up, just unfuck their user account or re-create it.  And if somehow it really gets screwed up (unlikely), then just restore the image.  They may whine and complain about not being able to install some software, but that's tough cookies.  Tell them this keeps their bank account safe (it does!)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>this really isnt that hard.1 .
do a fresh windows install2 .
install AVG free antivirus , etc etc3 .
Make the only account that has admin access be in your name .
Put a password on it .
Do n't tell them what it is.4 .
Make accounts for each of them , all Limited accounts.5 .
back up the computer ( take an image file ) .Now if they screw it up , just unfuck their user account or re-create it .
And if somehow it really gets screwed up ( unlikely ) , then just restore the image .
They may whine and complain about not being able to install some software , but that 's tough cookies .
Tell them this keeps their bank account safe ( it does !
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>this really isnt that hard.1.
do a fresh windows install2.
install AVG free antivirus, etc etc3.
Make the only account that has admin access be in your name.
Put a password on it.
Don't tell them what it is.4.
Make accounts for each of them, all Limited accounts.5.
back up the computer (take an image file).Now if they screw it up, just unfuck their user account or re-create it.
And if somehow it really gets screwed up (unlikely), then just restore the image.
They may whine and complain about not being able to install some software, but that's tough cookies.
Tell them this keeps their bank account safe (it does!
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076454</id>
	<title>Outsource It</title>
	<author>XLawyer</author>
	<datestamp>1258054680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You should suggest that they adopt an orphan from Bangalore.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You should suggest that they adopt an orphan from Bangalore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You should suggest that they adopt an orphan from Bangalore.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30082682</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258039800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yep. Mac would also be good but it costs. I told my family to learn to fix the problems themselves or go Ubuntu (which I have done). Two went Ubuntu and are happy. Four think I am mean but I don't care as I am mean and a whole lot less stressed. Frankly I just don't give a<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... about Windows any more. It's all too hard. Ubuntu was so easy to set up and one install does OS, Apps etc. The only glitch is major updates and nVidia cards don't seem to play nicely. I got a another video card. It's a shame people think Windows is normal. It's stupid and its a pain. If you have specialised needs and can work out the issues, cool. But for just web browsing, on-line games etc Linux is more than enough.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yep .
Mac would also be good but it costs .
I told my family to learn to fix the problems themselves or go Ubuntu ( which I have done ) .
Two went Ubuntu and are happy .
Four think I am mean but I do n't care as I am mean and a whole lot less stressed .
Frankly I just do n't give a .... about Windows any more .
It 's all too hard .
Ubuntu was so easy to set up and one install does OS , Apps etc .
The only glitch is major updates and nVidia cards do n't seem to play nicely .
I got a another video card .
It 's a shame people think Windows is normal .
It 's stupid and its a pain .
If you have specialised needs and can work out the issues , cool .
But for just web browsing , on-line games etc Linux is more than enough .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yep.
Mac would also be good but it costs.
I told my family to learn to fix the problems themselves or go Ubuntu (which I have done).
Two went Ubuntu and are happy.
Four think I am mean but I don't care as I am mean and a whole lot less stressed.
Frankly I just don't give a .... about Windows any more.
It's all too hard.
Ubuntu was so easy to set up and one install does OS, Apps etc.
The only glitch is major updates and nVidia cards don't seem to play nicely.
I got a another video card.
It's a shame people think Windows is normal.
It's stupid and its a pain.
If you have specialised needs and can work out the issues, cool.
But for just web browsing, on-line games etc Linux is more than enough.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075496</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30080436</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258025580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, this is in fact what I did. I work for a computer security company, so of course my family always expected me to help them out when they got infected by viruses, etc.</p><p>I got tired of it. The best way to clean a machine (especially Windows machine) which is infected is to wipe it and reinstall from scratch, and of course your family expects you to spend hours playing whack-a-mole with hundreds of pieces of malware on their pwned Windows box.</p><p>So, I convinced my sister in law (the worst of these) to get a Mac. It was an eMac, and the whole time she had it I never got a 'support call'. Once it died (after about 6 years the mainboard died) I told her to get another Mac.</p><p>Her: I don't want a Mac, I want a Windows machine.<br>Me: Why do you want a Windows machine.<br>Her: Because a Mac can't run all the programs I want.<br>Me: What programs do you want to run.<br>Her: Sometimes, people email me<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.exe files and I can't run them.<br>Me: That is why you're getting a Mac. I will NOT help you at all if you get a Windows box.</p><p>She got a Mac mini this time around. Works great. No support calls.</p><p>Regarding the above comment about help fixing cars, for certain, if I get asked I try to help. Usually the people who ask for help are not the same people who help you in return, but hey, family is family. But if your family member insists on buying a lemon against your better advice, maybe you need to draw the line.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , this is in fact what I did .
I work for a computer security company , so of course my family always expected me to help them out when they got infected by viruses , etc.I got tired of it .
The best way to clean a machine ( especially Windows machine ) which is infected is to wipe it and reinstall from scratch , and of course your family expects you to spend hours playing whack-a-mole with hundreds of pieces of malware on their pwned Windows box.So , I convinced my sister in law ( the worst of these ) to get a Mac .
It was an eMac , and the whole time she had it I never got a 'support call' .
Once it died ( after about 6 years the mainboard died ) I told her to get another Mac.Her : I do n't want a Mac , I want a Windows machine.Me : Why do you want a Windows machine.Her : Because a Mac ca n't run all the programs I want.Me : What programs do you want to run.Her : Sometimes , people email me .exe files and I ca n't run them.Me : That is why you 're getting a Mac .
I will NOT help you at all if you get a Windows box.She got a Mac mini this time around .
Works great .
No support calls.Regarding the above comment about help fixing cars , for certain , if I get asked I try to help .
Usually the people who ask for help are not the same people who help you in return , but hey , family is family .
But if your family member insists on buying a lemon against your better advice , maybe you need to draw the line .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, this is in fact what I did.
I work for a computer security company, so of course my family always expected me to help them out when they got infected by viruses, etc.I got tired of it.
The best way to clean a machine (especially Windows machine) which is infected is to wipe it and reinstall from scratch, and of course your family expects you to spend hours playing whack-a-mole with hundreds of pieces of malware on their pwned Windows box.So, I convinced my sister in law (the worst of these) to get a Mac.
It was an eMac, and the whole time she had it I never got a 'support call'.
Once it died (after about 6 years the mainboard died) I told her to get another Mac.Her: I don't want a Mac, I want a Windows machine.Me: Why do you want a Windows machine.Her: Because a Mac can't run all the programs I want.Me: What programs do you want to run.Her: Sometimes, people email me .exe files and I can't run them.Me: That is why you're getting a Mac.
I will NOT help you at all if you get a Windows box.She got a Mac mini this time around.
Works great.
No support calls.Regarding the above comment about help fixing cars, for certain, if I get asked I try to help.
Usually the people who ask for help are not the same people who help you in return, but hey, family is family.
But if your family member insists on buying a lemon against your better advice, maybe you need to draw the line.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075962</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30080380</id>
	<title>Look to the Corporate world</title>
	<author>Gyorg\_Lavode</author>
	<datestamp>1258025460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>First, I concur with pretyt much everyone else who indicated to try is to fail.
<p>
However, if you're still willing to subject yourself to it, look to corporate IT.  they are the gold standard for maintaining stupid people's computers.  Personally, I'd build a slip-steamed USB drive that you can plug in and have automatically rebuild a computer.  Also, I'd consider looking to see if there are any tools you can use to dump a rediculiously restrictive policy on the computers.  Finally, depending on the types of computers, you may want to consider looking at some of the desktop-type virtualization technologies.  That way when they screw up their computer, you can just dump the VM back on.
</p><p>
I personally used an MSDN license to pull a copy of windows SBS and a few copies of windows pro.  I joined everything to the domain and then centrally manage.  Turn VPN on on their home router and you can simply VPN in, remote desktop to the server, and push the fix to the computers.  (Personally, I don't know why MS doesn't offer a stripped down version of SBS for home use designed to allow a parent or such to manage all the computers in the house without going to each one individually...)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First , I concur with pretyt much everyone else who indicated to try is to fail .
However , if you 're still willing to subject yourself to it , look to corporate IT .
they are the gold standard for maintaining stupid people 's computers .
Personally , I 'd build a slip-steamed USB drive that you can plug in and have automatically rebuild a computer .
Also , I 'd consider looking to see if there are any tools you can use to dump a rediculiously restrictive policy on the computers .
Finally , depending on the types of computers , you may want to consider looking at some of the desktop-type virtualization technologies .
That way when they screw up their computer , you can just dump the VM back on .
I personally used an MSDN license to pull a copy of windows SBS and a few copies of windows pro .
I joined everything to the domain and then centrally manage .
Turn VPN on on their home router and you can simply VPN in , remote desktop to the server , and push the fix to the computers .
( Personally , I do n't know why MS does n't offer a stripped down version of SBS for home use designed to allow a parent or such to manage all the computers in the house without going to each one individually... )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First, I concur with pretyt much everyone else who indicated to try is to fail.
However, if you're still willing to subject yourself to it, look to corporate IT.
they are the gold standard for maintaining stupid people's computers.
Personally, I'd build a slip-steamed USB drive that you can plug in and have automatically rebuild a computer.
Also, I'd consider looking to see if there are any tools you can use to dump a rediculiously restrictive policy on the computers.
Finally, depending on the types of computers, you may want to consider looking at some of the desktop-type virtualization technologies.
That way when they screw up their computer, you can just dump the VM back on.
I personally used an MSDN license to pull a copy of windows SBS and a few copies of windows pro.
I joined everything to the domain and then centrally manage.
Turn VPN on on their home router and you can simply VPN in, remote desktop to the server, and push the fix to the computers.
(Personally, I don't know why MS doesn't offer a stripped down version of SBS for home use designed to allow a parent or such to manage all the computers in the house without going to each one individually...)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076248</id>
	<title>I used to be stuck in the tech support black hole</title>
	<author>tool462</author>
	<datestamp>1258054140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But you know what I ended up doing?  I stopped.</p><p>My wife ended up quite competent at fixing hers very quickly.  When I stopped, the first couple of problems she ran into, I just suggested she try searching Google, since that's all I'd likely do anyway.  She figured it out.  And now that she's responsible for her own machine, she is much more careful with what she does to it.</p><p>Same thing happened with my mom.  My younger brothers picked up the slack for a bit, but she eventually figured out how to do it on her own.  And you know what happened?  She stopped downloading and installing all those stupid little waving flag apps or whatever that just end up being spyware.  Now I'm not stuck fixing computers every time I visit, and overall they have fewer computer issues in general.</p><p>I may still help out occasionally on bigger issues, but that's usually more along the lines of "Can this be fixed?  Is it worth fixing?"  Tends to only happen every couple of years as another computer reaches the end of its life.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But you know what I ended up doing ?
I stopped.My wife ended up quite competent at fixing hers very quickly .
When I stopped , the first couple of problems she ran into , I just suggested she try searching Google , since that 's all I 'd likely do anyway .
She figured it out .
And now that she 's responsible for her own machine , she is much more careful with what she does to it.Same thing happened with my mom .
My younger brothers picked up the slack for a bit , but she eventually figured out how to do it on her own .
And you know what happened ?
She stopped downloading and installing all those stupid little waving flag apps or whatever that just end up being spyware .
Now I 'm not stuck fixing computers every time I visit , and overall they have fewer computer issues in general.I may still help out occasionally on bigger issues , but that 's usually more along the lines of " Can this be fixed ?
Is it worth fixing ?
" Tends to only happen every couple of years as another computer reaches the end of its life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But you know what I ended up doing?
I stopped.My wife ended up quite competent at fixing hers very quickly.
When I stopped, the first couple of problems she ran into, I just suggested she try searching Google, since that's all I'd likely do anyway.
She figured it out.
And now that she's responsible for her own machine, she is much more careful with what she does to it.Same thing happened with my mom.
My younger brothers picked up the slack for a bit, but she eventually figured out how to do it on her own.
And you know what happened?
She stopped downloading and installing all those stupid little waving flag apps or whatever that just end up being spyware.
Now I'm not stuck fixing computers every time I visit, and overall they have fewer computer issues in general.I may still help out occasionally on bigger issues, but that's usually more along the lines of "Can this be fixed?
Is it worth fixing?
"  Tends to only happen every couple of years as another computer reaches the end of its life.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076272</id>
	<title>Image the systems</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258054200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>hmmm....i have linux and mac in my house for my kids. Zero problems, but i realize this may not be the best solution.  No amount of coaching is going to keep those windows boxes germ free though.  My parents and brother drive me nuts and i live 2-3 hours away from them.  One thing you can do to shorten your rebuild time is to image the computers with g4u next time you get them in a clean completely rebuilt state with all the programs back on.  If you havent used it, its an open source Ghost, but better and free.  Check sourceforge or google.  I use it all the time and it saves me time and stress.  You can rebuild an entire system in a few minutes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>hmmm....i have linux and mac in my house for my kids .
Zero problems , but i realize this may not be the best solution .
No amount of coaching is going to keep those windows boxes germ free though .
My parents and brother drive me nuts and i live 2-3 hours away from them .
One thing you can do to shorten your rebuild time is to image the computers with g4u next time you get them in a clean completely rebuilt state with all the programs back on .
If you havent used it , its an open source Ghost , but better and free .
Check sourceforge or google .
I use it all the time and it saves me time and stress .
You can rebuild an entire system in a few minutes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>hmmm....i have linux and mac in my house for my kids.
Zero problems, but i realize this may not be the best solution.
No amount of coaching is going to keep those windows boxes germ free though.
My parents and brother drive me nuts and i live 2-3 hours away from them.
One thing you can do to shorten your rebuild time is to image the computers with g4u next time you get them in a clean completely rebuilt state with all the programs back on.
If you havent used it, its an open source Ghost, but better and free.
Check sourceforge or google.
I use it all the time and it saves me time and stress.
You can rebuild an entire system in a few minutes.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077518</id>
	<title>Re:Get a Mac</title>
	<author>StuartHankins</author>
	<datestamp>1258058460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Mod parent up. The only machines that give me problems nowadays are Windows machines.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Mod parent up .
The only machines that give me problems nowadays are Windows machines .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mod parent up.
The only machines that give me problems nowadays are Windows machines.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076310</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075766</id>
	<title>LogMeIn/Hamachi</title>
	<author>RedVizsla</author>
	<datestamp>1258052520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I used a combination of LogMeIn and Hamachi. LogMeIn gets me access from anywhere, while Hamachi gives me a secure, globally available VPN to their file system, and both punch though most firewalls. Also use Microsoft Sync in some cases to backup files or push stuff over to them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I used a combination of LogMeIn and Hamachi .
LogMeIn gets me access from anywhere , while Hamachi gives me a secure , globally available VPN to their file system , and both punch though most firewalls .
Also use Microsoft Sync in some cases to backup files or push stuff over to them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used a combination of LogMeIn and Hamachi.
LogMeIn gets me access from anywhere, while Hamachi gives me a secure, globally available VPN to their file system, and both punch though most firewalls.
Also use Microsoft Sync in some cases to backup files or push stuff over to them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075962</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>InlawBiker</author>
	<datestamp>1258053180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I got my wife a Mac and the tech support nearly stopped.  The biggest benefit has been lack of viruses.  Otherwise she didn't care one way or another.

For the rest of my family and friends, I just help them.  Sometimes it takes me a while to help them, but I fit them in eventually.  Why wouldn't I?  If I need help fixing my car, borrowing a tool or watching my kids I have people to call.  It all comes around.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I got my wife a Mac and the tech support nearly stopped .
The biggest benefit has been lack of viruses .
Otherwise she did n't care one way or another .
For the rest of my family and friends , I just help them .
Sometimes it takes me a while to help them , but I fit them in eventually .
Why would n't I ?
If I need help fixing my car , borrowing a tool or watching my kids I have people to call .
It all comes around .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I got my wife a Mac and the tech support nearly stopped.
The biggest benefit has been lack of viruses.
Otherwise she didn't care one way or another.
For the rest of my family and friends, I just help them.
Sometimes it takes me a while to help them, but I fit them in eventually.
Why wouldn't I?
If I need help fixing my car, borrowing a tool or watching my kids I have people to call.
It all comes around.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076346</id>
	<title>Re:Oblig. XKCD</title>
	<author>kalirion</author>
	<datestamp>1258054380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's for the "How do I underline a sentence in Word" type of problem, not the "My computer slowed to a crawl, I get 10 porn pop-ups a second, and my credit card was used to buy parts for a robot girl" type of problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's for the " How do I underline a sentence in Word " type of problem , not the " My computer slowed to a crawl , I get 10 porn pop-ups a second , and my credit card was used to buy parts for a robot girl " type of problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's for the "How do I underline a sentence in Word" type of problem, not the "My computer slowed to a crawl, I get 10 porn pop-ups a second, and my credit card was used to buy parts for a robot girl" type of problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074898</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076684</id>
	<title>Re:Oblig. XKCD</title>
	<author>doug</author>
	<datestamp>1258055460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, I did give it to my Mom.  She didn't get it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , I did give it to my Mom .
She did n't get it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, I did give it to my Mom.
She didn't get it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074898</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077140</id>
	<title>Re:Correct User Access</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258057080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you want even more nerd cred, set up active directory and a domain so you can control everything remotely. Server 08 R2 (i dont know about 7, it might too) has the ability to download all updates onto one computer and have all the other computers log into it to download MS updates. Saves bandwidth and you can see from one screen which systems have what update.<br>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you want even more nerd cred , set up active directory and a domain so you can control everything remotely .
Server 08 R2 ( i dont know about 7 , it might too ) has the ability to download all updates onto one computer and have all the other computers log into it to download MS updates .
Saves bandwidth and you can see from one screen which systems have what update .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you want even more nerd cred, set up active directory and a domain so you can control everything remotely.
Server 08 R2 (i dont know about 7, it might too) has the ability to download all updates onto one computer and have all the other computers log into it to download MS updates.
Saves bandwidth and you can see from one screen which systems have what update.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30082270</id>
	<title>Balancing your jerkiness</title>
	<author>DoctorJB</author>
	<datestamp>1258035720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I applaud the belief that the older ones are still trainable, but it's clear that they're not going to change and any videos you find will be wasted.  Accept that they're happy with the arrangement and they will not spend the necessary intellectual energy to remember anything you show them.  They're codependent upon you.  Use a little tough love and start cutting them off.  Then they'll do one of two things: Learn, or find someone else to be dependent on.  Hopefully the former, probably the latter.  That 9-year-old will probably inherit the mantle as soon as he/she is ready, and I'm guessing he/she will be a lot more willing to learn from you and you won't need flashy videos.</p><p>If you've got the stomach for it, you can do as others have been suggesting and become a jerk when it comes to technical support.  Not an in-your-face-I-think-your-an-idiot-jerk, but give enough push-back so that they realize that you're the last option, and not the first option, when something goes wrong.  With my own mom I was able to wean her off my tech support by saying (semi)-gently, "You need to learn to do it for yourself."  What happened instead is she switched to my younger brother, and when he left home, the next door neighbor.  I still end up helping her on holidays, but I no longer get random phone calls to get pictures off her camera when I've never seen her camera before, or her latest computer setup, and she doesn't know how the pictures are being saved to her camera in the first place ("Does it have an SD card?" What? I have a charge cable that goes into the wall, will that help?).</p><p>Macs may reduce the spyware, but it's not going to eliminate your problem.  I was visiting my grandmother last year who has a Mac and she couldn't figure out why her printer was doing weird things.  In the printer tray was a sheet of paper that said, "Your computer has been HaXoRed by...."  Grandma calls Apple tech support and loves them.  But then she's also got the cash to do that kind of thing.</p><p>Don't install Linux or an alternate OS unless you WANT to be the only go-to-guy for tech support.  Keep it Windows and the pool of other people to help them is larger.  Anyone that embraces the concept of Macs in a Windows world, or the geek-factor of Linux, usually has some desire to learn things on their own, which doesn't sound like your group.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I applaud the belief that the older ones are still trainable , but it 's clear that they 're not going to change and any videos you find will be wasted .
Accept that they 're happy with the arrangement and they will not spend the necessary intellectual energy to remember anything you show them .
They 're codependent upon you .
Use a little tough love and start cutting them off .
Then they 'll do one of two things : Learn , or find someone else to be dependent on .
Hopefully the former , probably the latter .
That 9-year-old will probably inherit the mantle as soon as he/she is ready , and I 'm guessing he/she will be a lot more willing to learn from you and you wo n't need flashy videos.If you 've got the stomach for it , you can do as others have been suggesting and become a jerk when it comes to technical support .
Not an in-your-face-I-think-your-an-idiot-jerk , but give enough push-back so that they realize that you 're the last option , and not the first option , when something goes wrong .
With my own mom I was able to wean her off my tech support by saying ( semi ) -gently , " You need to learn to do it for yourself .
" What happened instead is she switched to my younger brother , and when he left home , the next door neighbor .
I still end up helping her on holidays , but I no longer get random phone calls to get pictures off her camera when I 've never seen her camera before , or her latest computer setup , and she does n't know how the pictures are being saved to her camera in the first place ( " Does it have an SD card ?
" What ?
I have a charge cable that goes into the wall , will that help ?
) .Macs may reduce the spyware , but it 's not going to eliminate your problem .
I was visiting my grandmother last year who has a Mac and she could n't figure out why her printer was doing weird things .
In the printer tray was a sheet of paper that said , " Your computer has been HaXoRed by.... " Grandma calls Apple tech support and loves them .
But then she 's also got the cash to do that kind of thing.Do n't install Linux or an alternate OS unless you WANT to be the only go-to-guy for tech support .
Keep it Windows and the pool of other people to help them is larger .
Anyone that embraces the concept of Macs in a Windows world , or the geek-factor of Linux , usually has some desire to learn things on their own , which does n't sound like your group .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I applaud the belief that the older ones are still trainable, but it's clear that they're not going to change and any videos you find will be wasted.
Accept that they're happy with the arrangement and they will not spend the necessary intellectual energy to remember anything you show them.
They're codependent upon you.
Use a little tough love and start cutting them off.
Then they'll do one of two things: Learn, or find someone else to be dependent on.
Hopefully the former, probably the latter.
That 9-year-old will probably inherit the mantle as soon as he/she is ready, and I'm guessing he/she will be a lot more willing to learn from you and you won't need flashy videos.If you've got the stomach for it, you can do as others have been suggesting and become a jerk when it comes to technical support.
Not an in-your-face-I-think-your-an-idiot-jerk, but give enough push-back so that they realize that you're the last option, and not the first option, when something goes wrong.
With my own mom I was able to wean her off my tech support by saying (semi)-gently, "You need to learn to do it for yourself.
"  What happened instead is she switched to my younger brother, and when he left home, the next door neighbor.
I still end up helping her on holidays, but I no longer get random phone calls to get pictures off her camera when I've never seen her camera before, or her latest computer setup, and she doesn't know how the pictures are being saved to her camera in the first place ("Does it have an SD card?
" What?
I have a charge cable that goes into the wall, will that help?
).Macs may reduce the spyware, but it's not going to eliminate your problem.
I was visiting my grandmother last year who has a Mac and she couldn't figure out why her printer was doing weird things.
In the printer tray was a sheet of paper that said, "Your computer has been HaXoRed by...."  Grandma calls Apple tech support and loves them.
But then she's also got the cash to do that kind of thing.Don't install Linux or an alternate OS unless you WANT to be the only go-to-guy for tech support.
Keep it Windows and the pool of other people to help them is larger.
Anyone that embraces the concept of Macs in a Windows world, or the geek-factor of Linux, usually has some desire to learn things on their own, which doesn't sound like your group.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30082168</id>
	<title>Use Macs with limited user privileges</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258034820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here's what I did: I gave my brother my old Mac, and made him a regular user (instead of an admin), and I enabled remote access.</p><p>Sure, he has to call once in a while for new Apple updates or to install software, but it's locked down so it can't get messed up. Maybe a bit controlling, but he absolutely loves the result. He's thrilled to use the computer now, instead of dreading it like he did with his old Windows PC.</p><p>He recently got a hand-me-down iPhone too - and he loves it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's what I did : I gave my brother my old Mac , and made him a regular user ( instead of an admin ) , and I enabled remote access.Sure , he has to call once in a while for new Apple updates or to install software , but it 's locked down so it ca n't get messed up .
Maybe a bit controlling , but he absolutely loves the result .
He 's thrilled to use the computer now , instead of dreading it like he did with his old Windows PC.He recently got a hand-me-down iPhone too - and he loves it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's what I did: I gave my brother my old Mac, and made him a regular user (instead of an admin), and I enabled remote access.Sure, he has to call once in a while for new Apple updates or to install software, but it's locked down so it can't get messed up.
Maybe a bit controlling, but he absolutely loves the result.
He's thrilled to use the computer now, instead of dreading it like he did with his old Windows PC.He recently got a hand-me-down iPhone too - and he loves it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30082332</id>
	<title>Re:Related question</title>
	<author>webagogue</author>
	<datestamp>1258036380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Exactly. A better question might be, "why does your family have such little respect for your time/expertise"? Or, "why am I such a pushover in such that I repeatedly help those who never heed my advice?" Tell them to bring their computer to the geek squad so they can get reamed for at least 100 bucks (likely more).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly .
A better question might be , " why does your family have such little respect for your time/expertise " ?
Or , " why am I such a pushover in such that I repeatedly help those who never heed my advice ?
" Tell them to bring their computer to the geek squad so they can get reamed for at least 100 bucks ( likely more ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly.
A better question might be, "why does your family have such little respect for your time/expertise"?
Or, "why am I such a pushover in such that I repeatedly help those who never heed my advice?
" Tell them to bring their computer to the geek squad so they can get reamed for at least 100 bucks (likely more).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074704</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30082380</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>iCEBaLM</author>
	<datestamp>1258036620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I gave my mom my old WinXP PC after upgrading, the niece and nephew kept getting it infected with spyware and junk. I had to format that thing 4 times over 3 years. Every month something would be wrong with it.</p><p>I finally bought her a mac mini 4 months ago.  She called me once because after changing the batteries in her wireless keyboard she forgot to hit the reconnect button.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I gave my mom my old WinXP PC after upgrading , the niece and nephew kept getting it infected with spyware and junk .
I had to format that thing 4 times over 3 years .
Every month something would be wrong with it.I finally bought her a mac mini 4 months ago .
She called me once because after changing the batteries in her wireless keyboard she forgot to hit the reconnect button .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I gave my mom my old WinXP PC after upgrading, the niece and nephew kept getting it infected with spyware and junk.
I had to format that thing 4 times over 3 years.
Every month something would be wrong with it.I finally bought her a mac mini 4 months ago.
She called me once because after changing the batteries in her wireless keyboard she forgot to hit the reconnect button.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076868</id>
	<title>Think of your social life ;)</title>
	<author>Macka</author>
	<datestamp>1258056120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to have this problem too, but switching to Mac OS X myself and becoming a it of an evangelist I found that if I could get my friends to switch, my "support call" requests just dried up.  I think I've even lost a pair of "friends" who used to call me at least twice a year for an invitation to "dinner" which usually involved an evening of trying to unpick the mess their XP install had got into.  I switched them 3 years ago, gave them some starter instruction to get them going and haven't had a call from them since.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to have this problem too , but switching to Mac OS X myself and becoming a it of an evangelist I found that if I could get my friends to switch , my " support call " requests just dried up .
I think I 've even lost a pair of " friends " who used to call me at least twice a year for an invitation to " dinner " which usually involved an evening of trying to unpick the mess their XP install had got into .
I switched them 3 years ago , gave them some starter instruction to get them going and have n't had a call from them since .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to have this problem too, but switching to Mac OS X myself and becoming a it of an evangelist I found that if I could get my friends to switch, my "support call" requests just dried up.
I think I've even lost a pair of "friends" who used to call me at least twice a year for an invitation to "dinner" which usually involved an evening of trying to unpick the mess their XP install had got into.
I switched them 3 years ago, gave them some starter instruction to get them going and haven't had a call from them since.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075132</id>
	<title>Two words:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258050720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Start charging.</p><p>Suddenly the incidences of stupidity will drop. Or failing that you'll make some money out of them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Start charging.Suddenly the incidences of stupidity will drop .
Or failing that you 'll make some money out of them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Start charging.Suddenly the incidences of stupidity will drop.
Or failing that you'll make some money out of them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075002</id>
	<title>Re:Buy them a Mac</title>
	<author>tunapez</author>
	<datestamp>1258050300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It may sound facetious, but prevention works far better than education when those concerned have no interest in learning.</p></div><p>Like making your teenager watch a video on transmissions &amp; clutch plates to dissuade them from "riding the clutch" or switching from R to D before coming to a complete stop.
<br>
<br>
Seriously, nstall separate data drives(map MyDocs to it or make a s-c on desktop(I ignore Vista/7's oodles of personal folders, too "specialized", IMO), backup bookmarks and nuke the infested drive from orbit. Even a bloated Vista OS can be replaced/updated in <br>
PS: Start charging for your time, that ALWAYS fosters apathy for the problem.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It may sound facetious , but prevention works far better than education when those concerned have no interest in learning.Like making your teenager watch a video on transmissions &amp; clutch plates to dissuade them from " riding the clutch " or switching from R to D before coming to a complete stop .
Seriously , nstall separate data drives ( map MyDocs to it or make a s-c on desktop ( I ignore Vista/7 's oodles of personal folders , too " specialized " , IMO ) , backup bookmarks and nuke the infested drive from orbit .
Even a bloated Vista OS can be replaced/updated in PS : Start charging for your time , that ALWAYS fosters apathy for the problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It may sound facetious, but prevention works far better than education when those concerned have no interest in learning.Like making your teenager watch a video on transmissions &amp; clutch plates to dissuade them from "riding the clutch" or switching from R to D before coming to a complete stop.
Seriously, nstall separate data drives(map MyDocs to it or make a s-c on desktop(I ignore Vista/7's oodles of personal folders, too "specialized", IMO), backup bookmarks and nuke the infested drive from orbit.
Even a bloated Vista OS can be replaced/updated in 
PS: Start charging for your time, that ALWAYS fosters apathy for the problem.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074696</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076470</id>
	<title>Past experience</title>
	<author>lonestarw</author>
	<datestamp>1258054740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have had the similar situation, How every I would beg to ask a simple question.

1) If your getting Malware and Viruses why haven't you installed better anti-virus and anti-spam?


My parents Motherboard died and all they do is surf the net and e-mail so I installed Ubuntu and thunderbird. They were really happy and with openoffice they are currently learning how to use it. They bought a newer machine and it has windows now on it so they are back to that but they did have a positive experience with Ubuntu and Linux in general.

I would ask them to spend the money on a active scanning Anti-virus and Anti-Malware software. And of course have them use Firefox as a browser!!!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have had the similar situation , How every I would beg to ask a simple question .
1 ) If your getting Malware and Viruses why have n't you installed better anti-virus and anti-spam ?
My parents Motherboard died and all they do is surf the net and e-mail so I installed Ubuntu and thunderbird .
They were really happy and with openoffice they are currently learning how to use it .
They bought a newer machine and it has windows now on it so they are back to that but they did have a positive experience with Ubuntu and Linux in general .
I would ask them to spend the money on a active scanning Anti-virus and Anti-Malware software .
And of course have them use Firefox as a browser ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have had the similar situation, How every I would beg to ask a simple question.
1) If your getting Malware and Viruses why haven't you installed better anti-virus and anti-spam?
My parents Motherboard died and all they do is surf the net and e-mail so I installed Ubuntu and thunderbird.
They were really happy and with openoffice they are currently learning how to use it.
They bought a newer machine and it has windows now on it so they are back to that but they did have a positive experience with Ubuntu and Linux in general.
I would ask them to spend the money on a active scanning Anti-virus and Anti-Malware software.
And of course have them use Firefox as a browser!!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30080084</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258024260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've found that prattling on non-stop about the benefits of Linux and open source and refusing to touch a Windows machine for fear I might "get stupid on me" eases my family tech-support burden. Honestly, I used to get pinged all the time with requests to help people un-delete their recycle bins, but it's been awhile now.</p><p>For my own family, I threw away our Windows XP machine and bought an iMac. My whole family uses it with no complaints.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've found that prattling on non-stop about the benefits of Linux and open source and refusing to touch a Windows machine for fear I might " get stupid on me " eases my family tech-support burden .
Honestly , I used to get pinged all the time with requests to help people un-delete their recycle bins , but it 's been awhile now.For my own family , I threw away our Windows XP machine and bought an iMac .
My whole family uses it with no complaints .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've found that prattling on non-stop about the benefits of Linux and open source and refusing to touch a Windows machine for fear I might "get stupid on me" eases my family tech-support burden.
Honestly, I used to get pinged all the time with requests to help people un-delete their recycle bins, but it's been awhile now.For my own family, I threw away our Windows XP machine and bought an iMac.
My whole family uses it with no complaints.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074676</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30085794</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258122480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think "computing in the cloud" could be perfect for this family. What are they doing besides browsing? Get them a gmail account, and a read-only cd of ubuntu posted in the CD drive. They can create documents, browse, upload photos to picasa. No harm done.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think " computing in the cloud " could be perfect for this family .
What are they doing besides browsing ?
Get them a gmail account , and a read-only cd of ubuntu posted in the CD drive .
They can create documents , browse , upload photos to picasa .
No harm done .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think "computing in the cloud" could be perfect for this family.
What are they doing besides browsing?
Get them a gmail account, and a read-only cd of ubuntu posted in the CD drive.
They can create documents, browse, upload photos to picasa.
No harm done.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074676</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076732</id>
	<title>You made one big mistake....</title>
	<author>bodland</author>
	<datestamp>1258055640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Mistake: Being interested in fixing the computers. You now doomed to a long, mind numbingly dull, corporate IT existence to which there is no escape.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Mistake : Being interested in fixing the computers .
You now doomed to a long , mind numbingly dull , corporate IT existence to which there is no escape .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mistake: Being interested in fixing the computers.
You now doomed to a long, mind numbingly dull, corporate IT existence to which there is no escape.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075510</id>
	<title>Windows 7 will solve your problem</title>
	<author>croftj</author>
	<datestamp>1258051740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>According to an earlier article, Windows 7 looks and smells like a mac but is way more stable than a Mac.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>According to an earlier article , Windows 7 looks and smells like a mac but is way more stable than a Mac .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>According to an earlier article, Windows 7 looks and smells like a mac but is way more stable than a Mac.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075652</id>
	<title>Run Linux</title>
	<author>Jim Hall</author>
	<datestamp>1258052160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>"Ever since I was introduced to computers at a very young age, I've been the resident tech support for a household of 7 users. I've been in a cycle for the last ~8 years where something happens to my parents' computer, I spend a week or two trying to non-destructively fix the problem (and try to explain to the users what caused it and how to avoid it), and then if it's not easily fixed I'll reformat and start from scratch. Most often, the level of infection warrants a reformat [...] My question for Slashdot is: are there any resources out there that explain computer viruses, malware, adware, and general safe computer practices to non-technical people in an easy-to-digest format? [...]"</p></div><p>I'm not being snide when I say this, but you really should think about moving your family to Linux. I moved my wife to Linux (from Windows) after she finished her Master's thesis. Before, on Windows, she experienced regular crashes and lock-ups, and other weird behavior. Now, on Linux, everything runs fine. My wife uses her laptop to do email, write docs, browse the web, watch Youtube, that's it. So maybe for her, it's an easy move.</p><p>I did the same for my mom several years ago. My step-dad thought himself a great PC technician<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... despite knowing nothing about computers other than "point and click". So the PC was often hosed, usually through some malware problem. They used the computer just to browse the web, check email, write docs, do spreadsheets (home finance), play solitaire and freecell, play Flash games, watch Youtube. It was an easy move for them to migrate to Linux.</p><p>The key in making the transition easy is for you to understand THEIR computer use, what they use the computer for. In my experience, people who are "casual" PC users aren't doing anything that couldn't be done on Linux. Note "casual"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... with the people I support, that means no Everquest, no Half Life 2. Just basic computer use, and simple "diversion" games.</p><p>The next step is for you to convince your audience that Linux is okay, that it will meet their needs. My wife was an easy convert because she saw me use Linux every day, to do the same things she did. My mom was a little more difficult because I wasn't over there every day. But if you can sit down with them and show them (on your laptop?) how Linux is really just the same as Windows (what my mom just called "the PC"), then you may be in luck.</p><p>Don't push it too hard, and don't expect to change minds right away. May take several visits, casual demonstrations of what Linux can do.</p><p>When you demo Linux, don't tweak out your desktop. Let it be pretty much default. No odd themes, no cute backgrounds, no desktop effects turned on. That "geek stuff" kind of freaks out your potential audience.</p><p>Show that the same applications exist under Linux, but with a different name. OpenOffice versus "Microsoft Office". Firefox (same). Or Firefox vs IE. Make sure to install the Flash plugin ahead of time, so visiting Youtube is the same experience. I'd turn off Flashblock or not install it, so it's as close to the Windows experience.</p><p>If you do this, you might be able to make your family tech support easier. I find Linux harder to break, and certainly it isn't vulnerable to the malware that's out there.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Ever since I was introduced to computers at a very young age , I 've been the resident tech support for a household of 7 users .
I 've been in a cycle for the last ~ 8 years where something happens to my parents ' computer , I spend a week or two trying to non-destructively fix the problem ( and try to explain to the users what caused it and how to avoid it ) , and then if it 's not easily fixed I 'll reformat and start from scratch .
Most often , the level of infection warrants a reformat [ ... ] My question for Slashdot is : are there any resources out there that explain computer viruses , malware , adware , and general safe computer practices to non-technical people in an easy-to-digest format ?
[ ... ] " I 'm not being snide when I say this , but you really should think about moving your family to Linux .
I moved my wife to Linux ( from Windows ) after she finished her Master 's thesis .
Before , on Windows , she experienced regular crashes and lock-ups , and other weird behavior .
Now , on Linux , everything runs fine .
My wife uses her laptop to do email , write docs , browse the web , watch Youtube , that 's it .
So maybe for her , it 's an easy move.I did the same for my mom several years ago .
My step-dad thought himself a great PC technician ... despite knowing nothing about computers other than " point and click " .
So the PC was often hosed , usually through some malware problem .
They used the computer just to browse the web , check email , write docs , do spreadsheets ( home finance ) , play solitaire and freecell , play Flash games , watch Youtube .
It was an easy move for them to migrate to Linux.The key in making the transition easy is for you to understand THEIR computer use , what they use the computer for .
In my experience , people who are " casual " PC users are n't doing anything that could n't be done on Linux .
Note " casual " ... with the people I support , that means no Everquest , no Half Life 2 .
Just basic computer use , and simple " diversion " games.The next step is for you to convince your audience that Linux is okay , that it will meet their needs .
My wife was an easy convert because she saw me use Linux every day , to do the same things she did .
My mom was a little more difficult because I was n't over there every day .
But if you can sit down with them and show them ( on your laptop ?
) how Linux is really just the same as Windows ( what my mom just called " the PC " ) , then you may be in luck.Do n't push it too hard , and do n't expect to change minds right away .
May take several visits , casual demonstrations of what Linux can do.When you demo Linux , do n't tweak out your desktop .
Let it be pretty much default .
No odd themes , no cute backgrounds , no desktop effects turned on .
That " geek stuff " kind of freaks out your potential audience.Show that the same applications exist under Linux , but with a different name .
OpenOffice versus " Microsoft Office " .
Firefox ( same ) .
Or Firefox vs IE .
Make sure to install the Flash plugin ahead of time , so visiting Youtube is the same experience .
I 'd turn off Flashblock or not install it , so it 's as close to the Windows experience.If you do this , you might be able to make your family tech support easier .
I find Linux harder to break , and certainly it is n't vulnerable to the malware that 's out there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Ever since I was introduced to computers at a very young age, I've been the resident tech support for a household of 7 users.
I've been in a cycle for the last ~8 years where something happens to my parents' computer, I spend a week or two trying to non-destructively fix the problem (and try to explain to the users what caused it and how to avoid it), and then if it's not easily fixed I'll reformat and start from scratch.
Most often, the level of infection warrants a reformat [...] My question for Slashdot is: are there any resources out there that explain computer viruses, malware, adware, and general safe computer practices to non-technical people in an easy-to-digest format?
[...]"I'm not being snide when I say this, but you really should think about moving your family to Linux.
I moved my wife to Linux (from Windows) after she finished her Master's thesis.
Before, on Windows, she experienced regular crashes and lock-ups, and other weird behavior.
Now, on Linux, everything runs fine.
My wife uses her laptop to do email, write docs, browse the web, watch Youtube, that's it.
So maybe for her, it's an easy move.I did the same for my mom several years ago.
My step-dad thought himself a great PC technician ... despite knowing nothing about computers other than "point and click".
So the PC was often hosed, usually through some malware problem.
They used the computer just to browse the web, check email, write docs, do spreadsheets (home finance), play solitaire and freecell, play Flash games, watch Youtube.
It was an easy move for them to migrate to Linux.The key in making the transition easy is for you to understand THEIR computer use, what they use the computer for.
In my experience, people who are "casual" PC users aren't doing anything that couldn't be done on Linux.
Note "casual" ... with the people I support, that means no Everquest, no Half Life 2.
Just basic computer use, and simple "diversion" games.The next step is for you to convince your audience that Linux is okay, that it will meet their needs.
My wife was an easy convert because she saw me use Linux every day, to do the same things she did.
My mom was a little more difficult because I wasn't over there every day.
But if you can sit down with them and show them (on your laptop?
) how Linux is really just the same as Windows (what my mom just called "the PC"), then you may be in luck.Don't push it too hard, and don't expect to change minds right away.
May take several visits, casual demonstrations of what Linux can do.When you demo Linux, don't tweak out your desktop.
Let it be pretty much default.
No odd themes, no cute backgrounds, no desktop effects turned on.
That "geek stuff" kind of freaks out your potential audience.Show that the same applications exist under Linux, but with a different name.
OpenOffice versus "Microsoft Office".
Firefox (same).
Or Firefox vs IE.
Make sure to install the Flash plugin ahead of time, so visiting Youtube is the same experience.
I'd turn off Flashblock or not install it, so it's as close to the Windows experience.If you do this, you might be able to make your family tech support easier.
I find Linux harder to break, and certainly it isn't vulnerable to the malware that's out there.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075166</id>
	<title>Not an Easy Conversation to Have...</title>
	<author>pig\_man1899</author>
	<datestamp>1258050780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>... but you're going to have to tell mom and dad to stay off the russian girlie sites</htmltext>
<tokenext>... but you 're going to have to tell mom and dad to stay off the russian girlie sites</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... but you're going to have to tell mom and dad to stay off the russian girlie sites</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076362</id>
	<title>Re:Run windows in a virtual machine on Linux</title>
	<author>digitalhermit</author>
	<datestamp>1258054440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is exactly what I've done for precisely those reasons. Performance is actually pretty decent (web browsing, email). In fact I use this same setup for some commercial clients. Their web servers are all vmware based and DR, backup, recovery and new feature rollouts are as simple as moving around some images.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is exactly what I 've done for precisely those reasons .
Performance is actually pretty decent ( web browsing , email ) .
In fact I use this same setup for some commercial clients .
Their web servers are all vmware based and DR , backup , recovery and new feature rollouts are as simple as moving around some images .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is exactly what I've done for precisely those reasons.
Performance is actually pretty decent (web browsing, email).
In fact I use this same setup for some commercial clients.
Their web servers are all vmware based and DR, backup, recovery and new feature rollouts are as simple as moving around some images.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075392</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075480</id>
	<title>Moral Hazard</title>
	<author>rwv</author>
	<datestamp>1258051620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>tell them to get it repaired at the store.</p></div><p>Imagine a mechanic telling his brother-in-law "pay me for parts and labor, or just take it to the dealership".  I can't imagine this.  At the very best, I can imagine the mechanic saying "XYZ is probably wrong, I don't have the time to fix it, take it to RST and tell them ABC.  They should be able to fix it for $HIJ"

</p><p>Though... this illustrates that fact that a family car mechanic has his families interests in mind by giving them hints when the other mechanic tries to rip them off.  Also, that mechanics are busy people and actually don't have time to fart around helping their families.  There's a lesson in here somewhere, but I'm not sure what it is.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>tell them to get it repaired at the store.Imagine a mechanic telling his brother-in-law " pay me for parts and labor , or just take it to the dealership " .
I ca n't imagine this .
At the very best , I can imagine the mechanic saying " XYZ is probably wrong , I do n't have the time to fix it , take it to RST and tell them ABC .
They should be able to fix it for $ HIJ " Though... this illustrates that fact that a family car mechanic has his families interests in mind by giving them hints when the other mechanic tries to rip them off .
Also , that mechanics are busy people and actually do n't have time to fart around helping their families .
There 's a lesson in here somewhere , but I 'm not sure what it is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>tell them to get it repaired at the store.Imagine a mechanic telling his brother-in-law "pay me for parts and labor, or just take it to the dealership".
I can't imagine this.
At the very best, I can imagine the mechanic saying "XYZ is probably wrong, I don't have the time to fix it, take it to RST and tell them ABC.
They should be able to fix it for $HIJ"

Though... this illustrates that fact that a family car mechanic has his families interests in mind by giving them hints when the other mechanic tries to rip them off.
Also, that mechanics are busy people and actually don't have time to fart around helping their families.
There's a lesson in here somewhere, but I'm not sure what it is.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074842</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077404</id>
	<title>9, 26, and ~50 year olds...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258057920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>9, 26, and ~50 year olds with no technical background cannot be expected to understand computer viruses, malware, adware, and implement  safe computer practices.</p><p>The following is a list of measures I've taken w/ my family/relatives. It assumes users will not be depositing files in weird places, but will be clicking on everything they find on the Internet.</p><p>1. Partiton the drive and ensure user data is on the data partition (this way, majority of user created/downloaded data stays in a single location)<br>2. Take an image of C drive at installation. Store it safe. (This will speed up re-installs)<br>3. Internally mount a large USB stick (32GB is usually enough for a fresh install)<br>4. Schedule daily disk image copies to the internal USB stick (I use Macrium Reflect)<br>5. Install anti-virus utils (if possible, alerts should be mailed to you)<br>6. Lock down the computer.<br>7. Install VNC, check PC regularly and provide remote support. (if on-site, this may not be necessary)<br>8. If possible, use Linux (easier for remote updates etc, I use Ubu)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>9 , 26 , and ~ 50 year olds with no technical background can not be expected to understand computer viruses , malware , adware , and implement safe computer practices.The following is a list of measures I 've taken w/ my family/relatives .
It assumes users will not be depositing files in weird places , but will be clicking on everything they find on the Internet.1 .
Partiton the drive and ensure user data is on the data partition ( this way , majority of user created/downloaded data stays in a single location ) 2 .
Take an image of C drive at installation .
Store it safe .
( This will speed up re-installs ) 3 .
Internally mount a large USB stick ( 32GB is usually enough for a fresh install ) 4 .
Schedule daily disk image copies to the internal USB stick ( I use Macrium Reflect ) 5 .
Install anti-virus utils ( if possible , alerts should be mailed to you ) 6 .
Lock down the computer.7 .
Install VNC , check PC regularly and provide remote support .
( if on-site , this may not be necessary ) 8 .
If possible , use Linux ( easier for remote updates etc , I use Ubu )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>9, 26, and ~50 year olds with no technical background cannot be expected to understand computer viruses, malware, adware, and implement  safe computer practices.The following is a list of measures I've taken w/ my family/relatives.
It assumes users will not be depositing files in weird places, but will be clicking on everything they find on the Internet.1.
Partiton the drive and ensure user data is on the data partition (this way, majority of user created/downloaded data stays in a single location)2.
Take an image of C drive at installation.
Store it safe.
(This will speed up re-installs)3.
Internally mount a large USB stick (32GB is usually enough for a fresh install)4.
Schedule daily disk image copies to the internal USB stick (I use Macrium Reflect)5.
Install anti-virus utils (if possible, alerts should be mailed to you)6.
Lock down the computer.7.
Install VNC, check PC regularly and provide remote support.
(if on-site, this may not be necessary)8.
If possible, use Linux (easier for remote updates etc, I use Ubu)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075180</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>Actually, I do RTFA</author>
	<datestamp>1258050840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You really don't want to have to explain how to use Linux whenever a problem comes up.  And then you're even more on the hook.</p><p>You're already reinstalling their OS and all software, right?  So don't give them an administator account.  Set up whatever needs to run as the admin, as the admin.  Set up a firewall.  Turn on automatic updates.  Make some non-IE browser the default (or update to IE 8).  Install a good anti-virus software.  Shut down unneeded services (I think the www.grc.com list and the <a href="http://home.comcast.net/~SupportCd/SecureXP.html" title="comcast.net">http://home.comcast.net/~SupportCd/SecureXP.html</a> [comcast.net] list are pretty complete).  And then lock it the fuck down.</p><p>It can then be as easy to use as Windows, and much safer.  And, then it becomes a monthly or less often thing to install a software package instead of fix the whole computer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You really do n't want to have to explain how to use Linux whenever a problem comes up .
And then you 're even more on the hook.You 're already reinstalling their OS and all software , right ?
So do n't give them an administator account .
Set up whatever needs to run as the admin , as the admin .
Set up a firewall .
Turn on automatic updates .
Make some non-IE browser the default ( or update to IE 8 ) .
Install a good anti-virus software .
Shut down unneeded services ( I think the www.grc.com list and the http : //home.comcast.net/ ~ SupportCd/SecureXP.html [ comcast.net ] list are pretty complete ) .
And then lock it the fuck down.It can then be as easy to use as Windows , and much safer .
And , then it becomes a monthly or less often thing to install a software package instead of fix the whole computer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You really don't want to have to explain how to use Linux whenever a problem comes up.
And then you're even more on the hook.You're already reinstalling their OS and all software, right?
So don't give them an administator account.
Set up whatever needs to run as the admin, as the admin.
Set up a firewall.
Turn on automatic updates.
Make some non-IE browser the default (or update to IE 8).
Install a good anti-virus software.
Shut down unneeded services (I think the www.grc.com list and the http://home.comcast.net/~SupportCd/SecureXP.html [comcast.net] list are pretty complete).
And then lock it the fuck down.It can then be as easy to use as Windows, and much safer.
And, then it becomes a monthly or less often thing to install a software package instead of fix the whole computer.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074684</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077568</id>
	<title>Re:Give Up</title>
	<author>KGBear</author>
	<datestamp>1258058640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I actually blogged about this, and I don't blog that much. In short, I realized that Windows is thought to be user-friendly and the common denominator everybody uses and understands, when in practice every Windows user who is not a technically inclined person tends to have some relative (or an IT guy in corporations) who does the "hard" stuff for them. My conclusion was, if we all flat out refuse doing it, MS will be done and over it very fast.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I actually blogged about this , and I do n't blog that much .
In short , I realized that Windows is thought to be user-friendly and the common denominator everybody uses and understands , when in practice every Windows user who is not a technically inclined person tends to have some relative ( or an IT guy in corporations ) who does the " hard " stuff for them .
My conclusion was , if we all flat out refuse doing it , MS will be done and over it very fast .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I actually blogged about this, and I don't blog that much.
In short, I realized that Windows is thought to be user-friendly and the common denominator everybody uses and understands, when in practice every Windows user who is not a technically inclined person tends to have some relative (or an IT guy in corporations) who does the "hard" stuff for them.
My conclusion was, if we all flat out refuse doing it, MS will be done and over it very fast.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074674</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078698</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>saintlupus</author>
	<datestamp>1258019580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>As you can tell, after ten years of this, I'm fed up with trying to support my idiot family.</i></p><p>That's weird. Because judging from your other posts here on Slashdot, you've got excellent social skills and a surfeit of compassion.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As you can tell , after ten years of this , I 'm fed up with trying to support my idiot family.That 's weird .
Because judging from your other posts here on Slashdot , you 've got excellent social skills and a surfeit of compassion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As you can tell, after ten years of this, I'm fed up with trying to support my idiot family.That's weird.
Because judging from your other posts here on Slashdot, you've got excellent social skills and a surfeit of compassion.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075862</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075050</id>
	<title>Set the systems up correctly</title>
	<author>al0ha</author>
	<datestamp>1258050420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>1) Provide non administrative accounts for everyone but yourself - nobody needs admin on Windows any more
<br>
<br>
2) Install a good antivirus, which will easily be able to detect user level rootkits and malware
<br>
<br>
3) Disable AutoRun using the method provided on the NIST web site: <a href="http://www.nist.org/news.php?extend.264" title="nist.org">http://www.nist.org/news.php?extend.264</a> [nist.org]
<br>
<br>
4) Enjoy not having to mess around with compromised systems any more...</htmltext>
<tokenext>1 ) Provide non administrative accounts for everyone but yourself - nobody needs admin on Windows any more 2 ) Install a good antivirus , which will easily be able to detect user level rootkits and malware 3 ) Disable AutoRun using the method provided on the NIST web site : http : //www.nist.org/news.php ? extend.264 [ nist.org ] 4 ) Enjoy not having to mess around with compromised systems any more.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1) Provide non administrative accounts for everyone but yourself - nobody needs admin on Windows any more


2) Install a good antivirus, which will easily be able to detect user level rootkits and malware


3) Disable AutoRun using the method provided on the NIST web site: http://www.nist.org/news.php?extend.264 [nist.org]


4) Enjoy not having to mess around with compromised systems any more...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30080808</id>
	<title>Re:The last time I had this problem...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258027140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You didn't ask the person first if they minded changing to FROM WINDOWS to LINUX? I would shoot you dead if I were him<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</p><p>Obviously you are sub-par with your personal skills and you can't make up for that with overly ambitious Ubuntu installs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You did n't ask the person first if they minded changing to FROM WINDOWS to LINUX ?
I would shoot you dead if I were him : PObviously you are sub-par with your personal skills and you ca n't make up for that with overly ambitious Ubuntu installs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You didn't ask the person first if they minded changing to FROM WINDOWS to LINUX?
I would shoot you dead if I were him :PObviously you are sub-par with your personal skills and you can't make up for that with overly ambitious Ubuntu installs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074896</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078094</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>cream wobbly</author>
	<datestamp>1258017180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Mac. Which also don't run Windows software apps.</p></div><p> <a href="http://www.apple.com/macosx/compatibility/" title="apple.com">Yes it does</a> [apple.com]. Right there on the page:</p><p><div class="quote"><p> <em>"<strong>It runs Windows, too.</strong></em></p><p><em>"Have a Windows application you need to use once in a while? No problem. Every new Mac lets you install Windows XP and Vista and run them at native speeds, using a built-in utility called Boot Camp.</em></p><p><em>"Setup is simple and safe for your Mac files. After you&rsquo;ve completed the installation, you can boot up your Mac using either Mac OS X or Windows. (That&rsquo;s why it&rsquo;s called Boot Camp.) Or if you want to run Windows and Mac applications at the same time &mdash; without rebooting &mdash; you can install Windows using VMware or Parallels software.*"</em></p> </div><p>Then there's <a href="http://www.winehq.org/" title="winehq.org">Wine</a> [winehq.org] or <a href="http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxmac/" title="codeweavers.com">Crossover Mac</a> [codeweavers.com]. Please pay attention.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Mac .
Which also do n't run Windows software apps .
Yes it does [ apple.com ] .
Right there on the page : " It runs Windows , too .
" Have a Windows application you need to use once in a while ?
No problem .
Every new Mac lets you install Windows XP and Vista and run them at native speeds , using a built-in utility called Boot Camp .
" Setup is simple and safe for your Mac files .
After you    ve completed the installation , you can boot up your Mac using either Mac OS X or Windows .
( That    s why it    s called Boot Camp .
) Or if you want to run Windows and Mac applications at the same time    without rebooting    you can install Windows using VMware or Parallels software .
* " Then there 's Wine [ winehq.org ] or Crossover Mac [ codeweavers.com ] .
Please pay attention .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mac.
Which also don't run Windows software apps.
Yes it does [apple.com].
Right there on the page: "It runs Windows, too.
"Have a Windows application you need to use once in a while?
No problem.
Every new Mac lets you install Windows XP and Vista and run them at native speeds, using a built-in utility called Boot Camp.
"Setup is simple and safe for your Mac files.
After you’ve completed the installation, you can boot up your Mac using either Mac OS X or Windows.
(That’s why it’s called Boot Camp.
) Or if you want to run Windows and Mac applications at the same time — without rebooting — you can install Windows using VMware or Parallels software.
*" Then there's Wine [winehq.org] or Crossover Mac [codeweavers.com].
Please pay attention.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075538</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076462</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>CodeBuster</author>
	<datestamp>1258054680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's this back and forth that makes me wonder if we'll ever get or stay married.</p></div><p>And yet you are still together; it sounds like you are <i>already</i> married, so why not just formalize the situation if for no other reason than the tax benefits? Besides, its the quirky marriages that seem to work out best; every yin needs its yang after all.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's this back and forth that makes me wonder if we 'll ever get or stay married.And yet you are still together ; it sounds like you are already married , so why not just formalize the situation if for no other reason than the tax benefits ?
Besides , its the quirky marriages that seem to work out best ; every yin needs its yang after all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's this back and forth that makes me wonder if we'll ever get or stay married.And yet you are still together; it sounds like you are already married, so why not just formalize the situation if for no other reason than the tax benefits?
Besides, its the quirky marriages that seem to work out best; every yin needs its yang after all.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078488</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>Facegarden</author>
	<datestamp>1258018800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>No. Try Ubuntu.</p></div><p>Well, that is true, as long as they just want things Ubuntu does out of the box. For virus resistance, Linux rocks. I've had a hell of a time getting other features figured out with linux though.</p><p>I spent nearly every night of a two week span trying to get audio working properly on my HTPC setup (well, the first few days was video) with Ubuntu 9.04, and finally gave up.</p><p>Installed Windows 7, and it worked right away, I kid you not.</p><p>I am DAMN good with computers, and that all just baffled me. I seriously lost HOURS and hours of sleep for two weeks trying to figure it out.</p><p>It really turned me off of Linux. I've dabbled with it for years and I love some of the power it has for low level stuff, but man, just trying to get audio working on a surround setup over HDMI with *some* 2 channel audio clips and some 4, 5, or 6 channel clips was hell in a way I've NEVER had with Windows.</p><p>Anyway, i realize this article is about viruses and the users want simple functionality like web browsing that Linux would probably be fine for, but I feel like some people here would just recommend it by default as soon as they see the headline, and honestly, Ubuntu is really not the best answer.</p><p>I'm not sure what is though. I support our office of windows PCs and McAffee does a decent job of protecting us from viruses, but eventually I do have to go in an fix things.<br>-Taylor</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>No .
Try Ubuntu.Well , that is true , as long as they just want things Ubuntu does out of the box .
For virus resistance , Linux rocks .
I 've had a hell of a time getting other features figured out with linux though.I spent nearly every night of a two week span trying to get audio working properly on my HTPC setup ( well , the first few days was video ) with Ubuntu 9.04 , and finally gave up.Installed Windows 7 , and it worked right away , I kid you not.I am DAMN good with computers , and that all just baffled me .
I seriously lost HOURS and hours of sleep for two weeks trying to figure it out.It really turned me off of Linux .
I 've dabbled with it for years and I love some of the power it has for low level stuff , but man , just trying to get audio working on a surround setup over HDMI with * some * 2 channel audio clips and some 4 , 5 , or 6 channel clips was hell in a way I 've NEVER had with Windows.Anyway , i realize this article is about viruses and the users want simple functionality like web browsing that Linux would probably be fine for , but I feel like some people here would just recommend it by default as soon as they see the headline , and honestly , Ubuntu is really not the best answer.I 'm not sure what is though .
I support our office of windows PCs and McAffee does a decent job of protecting us from viruses , but eventually I do have to go in an fix things.-Taylor</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No.
Try Ubuntu.Well, that is true, as long as they just want things Ubuntu does out of the box.
For virus resistance, Linux rocks.
I've had a hell of a time getting other features figured out with linux though.I spent nearly every night of a two week span trying to get audio working properly on my HTPC setup (well, the first few days was video) with Ubuntu 9.04, and finally gave up.Installed Windows 7, and it worked right away, I kid you not.I am DAMN good with computers, and that all just baffled me.
I seriously lost HOURS and hours of sleep for two weeks trying to figure it out.It really turned me off of Linux.
I've dabbled with it for years and I love some of the power it has for low level stuff, but man, just trying to get audio working on a surround setup over HDMI with *some* 2 channel audio clips and some 4, 5, or 6 channel clips was hell in a way I've NEVER had with Windows.Anyway, i realize this article is about viruses and the users want simple functionality like web browsing that Linux would probably be fine for, but I feel like some people here would just recommend it by default as soon as they see the headline, and honestly, Ubuntu is really not the best answer.I'm not sure what is though.
I support our office of windows PCs and McAffee does a decent job of protecting us from viruses, but eventually I do have to go in an fix things.-Taylor
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075496</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074988</id>
	<title>I had the exact same issue...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258050240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I had the same problem and I replaced my Family with Macs.  Now I harldy, if ever, have to fix their computers or answer inane tech questions.  I am telling you, this is the only arrangment that will work for you.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I had the same problem and I replaced my Family with Macs .
Now I harldy , if ever , have to fix their computers or answer inane tech questions .
I am telling you , this is the only arrangment that will work for you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had the same problem and I replaced my Family with Macs.
Now I harldy, if ever, have to fix their computers or answer inane tech questions.
I am telling you, this is the only arrangment that will work for you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074858</id>
	<title>Make them pay</title>
	<author>TrippTDF</author>
	<datestamp>1258050000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Your post says a lot about your family dynamics... there is a cycle going on here where they use the computer willy-nilly, and then when it gets screwed up, they know that you will fix it for free.  What you need to do is make them pay for your services, so there are some stakes behind them asking you to fix it.  That will probably curb their behavior when it comes to installing every toolbar known to man.  <br> <br>

There is probably one major offender, and you could probably do some detective work to figure out who that person is if you tried.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Your post says a lot about your family dynamics... there is a cycle going on here where they use the computer willy-nilly , and then when it gets screwed up , they know that you will fix it for free .
What you need to do is make them pay for your services , so there are some stakes behind them asking you to fix it .
That will probably curb their behavior when it comes to installing every toolbar known to man .
There is probably one major offender , and you could probably do some detective work to figure out who that person is if you tried .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your post says a lot about your family dynamics... there is a cycle going on here where they use the computer willy-nilly, and then when it gets screwed up, they know that you will fix it for free.
What you need to do is make them pay for your services, so there are some stakes behind them asking you to fix it.
That will probably curb their behavior when it comes to installing every toolbar known to man.
There is probably one major offender, and you could probably do some detective work to figure out who that person is if you tried.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30102882</id>
	<title>RoseCityRemona</title>
	<author>RoseCityRemona</author>
	<datestamp>1258210320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My son, our family geek, has got some program that makes what he calls a 'ghost'. It is a saved image of the state of everything on the drive containing the os &amp; programs. When one of our family or close friends gets a crash or problem he just quickly uses the 'ghost' to recreate the drive and all it's former contents. Works great for all my grandkids' 'puters and saves him and I many many hours of brain-drain...sorry I don't know the name of his program tho' - anyone else know?</htmltext>
<tokenext>My son , our family geek , has got some program that makes what he calls a 'ghost' .
It is a saved image of the state of everything on the drive containing the os &amp; programs .
When one of our family or close friends gets a crash or problem he just quickly uses the 'ghost ' to recreate the drive and all it 's former contents .
Works great for all my grandkids ' 'puters and saves him and I many many hours of brain-drain...sorry I do n't know the name of his program tho ' - anyone else know ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My son, our family geek, has got some program that makes what he calls a 'ghost'.
It is a saved image of the state of everything on the drive containing the os &amp; programs.
When one of our family or close friends gets a crash or problem he just quickly uses the 'ghost' to recreate the drive and all it's former contents.
Works great for all my grandkids' 'puters and saves him and I many many hours of brain-drain...sorry I don't know the name of his program tho' - anyone else know?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30084294</id>
	<title>Image the desktops</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258144200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not sure if this has been mentioned already somewhere in the thread but I would probably create an image of their PCs -- when totally clean and with all the needed applications and settings set properly -- and have all their files kept on a local file server (including the images). Images can be made quite easily with Clonezilla (http://clonezilla.org/), which is also free and open source. Then when they have a problem, they can simply re-image their hard drives and be back to a clean system. You can give them some simple instructions on imaging the machines along with a boot disc to initiate the process. The file server can be done cheaply -- I'm thinking an older or cheap PC running Linux for that). Then you are mostly out of this re-install loop you're stuck in.</p><p>That's how IT shops do it (one's I work/have worked in included) because it's near impossible to keep Windows PCs malware free.</p><p>Another option, of course, is to give your family Linux on their desktops. This is probably an especially great option if they just surf the web (there wouldn't really be anything for them to learn since most of what they do happens in a browser).</p><p>Mike</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not sure if this has been mentioned already somewhere in the thread but I would probably create an image of their PCs -- when totally clean and with all the needed applications and settings set properly -- and have all their files kept on a local file server ( including the images ) .
Images can be made quite easily with Clonezilla ( http : //clonezilla.org/ ) , which is also free and open source .
Then when they have a problem , they can simply re-image their hard drives and be back to a clean system .
You can give them some simple instructions on imaging the machines along with a boot disc to initiate the process .
The file server can be done cheaply -- I 'm thinking an older or cheap PC running Linux for that ) .
Then you are mostly out of this re-install loop you 're stuck in.That 's how IT shops do it ( one 's I work/have worked in included ) because it 's near impossible to keep Windows PCs malware free.Another option , of course , is to give your family Linux on their desktops .
This is probably an especially great option if they just surf the web ( there would n't really be anything for them to learn since most of what they do happens in a browser ) .Mike</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not sure if this has been mentioned already somewhere in the thread but I would probably create an image of their PCs -- when totally clean and with all the needed applications and settings set properly -- and have all their files kept on a local file server (including the images).
Images can be made quite easily with Clonezilla (http://clonezilla.org/), which is also free and open source.
Then when they have a problem, they can simply re-image their hard drives and be back to a clean system.
You can give them some simple instructions on imaging the machines along with a boot disc to initiate the process.
The file server can be done cheaply -- I'm thinking an older or cheap PC running Linux for that).
Then you are mostly out of this re-install loop you're stuck in.That's how IT shops do it (one's I work/have worked in included) because it's near impossible to keep Windows PCs malware free.Another option, of course, is to give your family Linux on their desktops.
This is probably an especially great option if they just surf the web (there wouldn't really be anything for them to learn since most of what they do happens in a browser).Mike</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076036</id>
	<title>Re:Give Up</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258053420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's not so much a sixth sense as it is keeping skepticism as the default response.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not so much a sixth sense as it is keeping skepticism as the default response .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not so much a sixth sense as it is keeping skepticism as the default response.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075378</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30084360</id>
	<title>ridiculous advice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258144980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is the problem with slashdot and why I seldom come back.  Everyone defers the problem to Microsoft and the solution is to go to Mac OSX as if it would magically solve all problems.</p><p>Ever consider that some web applications require IE?  Ever consider that some people actually like Windows and find it more efficient than Macs?  Ever consider that supporting a heterogeneous environment is harder?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is the problem with slashdot and why I seldom come back .
Everyone defers the problem to Microsoft and the solution is to go to Mac OSX as if it would magically solve all problems.Ever consider that some web applications require IE ?
Ever consider that some people actually like Windows and find it more efficient than Macs ?
Ever consider that supporting a heterogeneous environment is harder ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is the problem with slashdot and why I seldom come back.
Everyone defers the problem to Microsoft and the solution is to go to Mac OSX as if it would magically solve all problems.Ever consider that some web applications require IE?
Ever consider that some people actually like Windows and find it more efficient than Macs?
Ever consider that supporting a heterogeneous environment is harder?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075620</id>
	<title>Re:Make them pay</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258052040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And make sure that I takes a while to fix.  If it pains them to miss it for a week, they might play more nicely with their toys.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And make sure that I takes a while to fix .
If it pains them to miss it for a week , they might play more nicely with their toys .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And make sure that I takes a while to fix.
If it pains them to miss it for a week, they might play more nicely with their toys.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074858</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077452</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>gurps\_npc</author>
	<datestamp>1258058160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Money = lives.
<p>
A kidney transplant costs $89,939; plus an average of $16,043 a year for anti-rejection medication.
</p><p>
Assuming 10 years of post transplant life, that is about $250k.  If you save your company $250k, then you've enabled them to get better healthcare, which might for example give a new kidney to a man/woman for 10 years.
</p><p>
This of course ignores the more basic things, such as more money = more taxes for ambulance, fire, police, which can directly save a life.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Money = lives .
A kidney transplant costs $ 89,939 ; plus an average of $ 16,043 a year for anti-rejection medication .
Assuming 10 years of post transplant life , that is about $ 250k .
If you save your company $ 250k , then you 've enabled them to get better healthcare , which might for example give a new kidney to a man/woman for 10 years .
This of course ignores the more basic things , such as more money = more taxes for ambulance , fire , police , which can directly save a life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Money = lives.
A kidney transplant costs $89,939; plus an average of $16,043 a year for anti-rejection medication.
Assuming 10 years of post transplant life, that is about $250k.
If you save your company $250k, then you've enabled them to get better healthcare, which might for example give a new kidney to a man/woman for 10 years.
This of course ignores the more basic things, such as more money = more taxes for ambulance, fire, police, which can directly save a life.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077550</id>
	<title>Re:The butterfly Parable</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258058580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>An insight into Mentoring &amp; coaching</p><p>One day a man finds a cocoon for a butterfly with a small opening, he sits and watches the butterfly for several hours as it struggled to force its body through the little hole. Then it seemed to stop making any progress. It appeared stuck.</p><p>The man decided to help the butterfly and with a pair of scissors he cut open the cocoon. The butterfly emerges easily, but something was strange. The butterfly had a swollen body and shrivelled wings. The man watched the butterfly expecting it to take on its correct proportions. But nothing changed.</p><p>The butterfly stayed the same. It was never able to fly. In his kindness and haste the man did not realise that the butterfly's struggle to get through the small opening of the cocoon is nature's way of forcing fluid from the body of the butterfly into its wings so that it would be ready for flight.</p></div><p>Worst. Analogy. Ever.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>An insight into Mentoring &amp; coachingOne day a man finds a cocoon for a butterfly with a small opening , he sits and watches the butterfly for several hours as it struggled to force its body through the little hole .
Then it seemed to stop making any progress .
It appeared stuck.The man decided to help the butterfly and with a pair of scissors he cut open the cocoon .
The butterfly emerges easily , but something was strange .
The butterfly had a swollen body and shrivelled wings .
The man watched the butterfly expecting it to take on its correct proportions .
But nothing changed.The butterfly stayed the same .
It was never able to fly .
In his kindness and haste the man did not realise that the butterfly 's struggle to get through the small opening of the cocoon is nature 's way of forcing fluid from the body of the butterfly into its wings so that it would be ready for flight.Worst .
Analogy. Ever .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An insight into Mentoring &amp; coachingOne day a man finds a cocoon for a butterfly with a small opening, he sits and watches the butterfly for several hours as it struggled to force its body through the little hole.
Then it seemed to stop making any progress.
It appeared stuck.The man decided to help the butterfly and with a pair of scissors he cut open the cocoon.
The butterfly emerges easily, but something was strange.
The butterfly had a swollen body and shrivelled wings.
The man watched the butterfly expecting it to take on its correct proportions.
But nothing changed.The butterfly stayed the same.
It was never able to fly.
In his kindness and haste the man did not realise that the butterfly's struggle to get through the small opening of the cocoon is nature's way of forcing fluid from the body of the butterfly into its wings so that it would be ready for flight.Worst.
Analogy. Ever.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077692</id>
	<title>Everything on the Internet is a Lie</title>
	<author>joebok</author>
	<datestamp>1258059060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Telling family/friends/neighbors that every single thing on the Internet is a lie has been the most effective thing I've come up with.  Especially for email - it is all a lie, a damn lie.  (Note - it is especially fun to tell them this via email.)</p><p>That and switching my mom to a Mac has really saved me a ton of time.  I'm no Mac fanboy, but they do just seem to work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Telling family/friends/neighbors that every single thing on the Internet is a lie has been the most effective thing I 've come up with .
Especially for email - it is all a lie , a damn lie .
( Note - it is especially fun to tell them this via email .
) That and switching my mom to a Mac has really saved me a ton of time .
I 'm no Mac fanboy , but they do just seem to work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Telling family/friends/neighbors that every single thing on the Internet is a lie has been the most effective thing I've come up with.
Especially for email - it is all a lie, a damn lie.
(Note - it is especially fun to tell them this via email.
)That and switching my mom to a Mac has really saved me a ton of time.
I'm no Mac fanboy, but they do just seem to work.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30081402</id>
	<title>There's a name for this</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258030140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-Dependents\_Anonymous" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">reliable source</a> [wikipedia.org] says:</p><blockquote><div><p>"Codependence is described as a disease that originates in dysfunctional families where children learn to overcompensate for their parent's disorders and develop an excessive sensitivity to other's needs. "</p></div></blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A reliable source [ wikipedia.org ] says : " Codependence is described as a disease that originates in dysfunctional families where children learn to overcompensate for their parent 's disorders and develop an excessive sensitivity to other 's needs .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A reliable source [wikipedia.org] says:"Codependence is described as a disease that originates in dysfunctional families where children learn to overcompensate for their parent's disorders and develop an excessive sensitivity to other's needs.
"
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074816</id>
	<title>You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>celest</author>
	<datestamp>1258049940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In my experience, it is not an issue of easy-to-digest material, and explanations that they understand.  It's a hard mental block.  I've been in the same cycle for 10+ years, and my parents have said, flat out, they they "just can't learn".  I've tried written, step-by-step instructions; I've tried demonstrating; I've tried tutorials.  It's not the information or how it is presented.  It's a mental block about learning new things.</p><p>"Why can't it just work?", and the fact that it doesn't is put on my shoulders as the "tech" generation.  And that's that.</p><p>What really gets me angry is that they are helpless to do anything in their daily lives without their computer, and blame me for that fact (Cause *I* created all malware and put it on their computer, clearly), while simultaneously ridiculing my choice of career as worthless, because "technology is not important".  The irony is lost on them.  Completely.</p><p>The war you are facing is a cultural one, not a technical, or information/communication one.  It's one better asked to a psychologist than Slashdot.  Best of luck.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In my experience , it is not an issue of easy-to-digest material , and explanations that they understand .
It 's a hard mental block .
I 've been in the same cycle for 10 + years , and my parents have said , flat out , they they " just ca n't learn " .
I 've tried written , step-by-step instructions ; I 've tried demonstrating ; I 've tried tutorials .
It 's not the information or how it is presented .
It 's a mental block about learning new things .
" Why ca n't it just work ?
" , and the fact that it does n't is put on my shoulders as the " tech " generation .
And that 's that.What really gets me angry is that they are helpless to do anything in their daily lives without their computer , and blame me for that fact ( Cause * I * created all malware and put it on their computer , clearly ) , while simultaneously ridiculing my choice of career as worthless , because " technology is not important " .
The irony is lost on them .
Completely.The war you are facing is a cultural one , not a technical , or information/communication one .
It 's one better asked to a psychologist than Slashdot .
Best of luck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my experience, it is not an issue of easy-to-digest material, and explanations that they understand.
It's a hard mental block.
I've been in the same cycle for 10+ years, and my parents have said, flat out, they they "just can't learn".
I've tried written, step-by-step instructions; I've tried demonstrating; I've tried tutorials.
It's not the information or how it is presented.
It's a mental block about learning new things.
"Why can't it just work?
", and the fact that it doesn't is put on my shoulders as the "tech" generation.
And that's that.What really gets me angry is that they are helpless to do anything in their daily lives without their computer, and blame me for that fact (Cause *I* created all malware and put it on their computer, clearly), while simultaneously ridiculing my choice of career as worthless, because "technology is not important".
The irony is lost on them.
Completely.The war you are facing is a cultural one, not a technical, or information/communication one.
It's one better asked to a psychologist than Slashdot.
Best of luck.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076956</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>putch</author>
	<datestamp>1258056480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>i tell people to get macs.  not because they won't cause frustration (perhaps not quite so much yes) but because when i do get the support call i can simply say "sorry, i dont support macs"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>i tell people to get macs .
not because they wo n't cause frustration ( perhaps not quite so much yes ) but because when i do get the support call i can simply say " sorry , i dont support macs "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i tell people to get macs.
not because they won't cause frustration (perhaps not quite so much yes) but because when i do get the support call i can simply say "sorry, i dont support macs"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075140</id>
	<title>Install ubuntu.... Until they want to play a game</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258050720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When they want to do something else other than run Firefox, then they are hosed.  All the family is going to do is resent you for forcing linux on them.  Just wait until they want to play a game they bought on Bestbuy.  All the propaganda about the apparent superiority of open source software won't impress them when their game won't run.</p><p>One would be better off setting up a limited user account on windows, and tell them to only use the administrator account when they are absolutely sure they want to install a piece of software.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When they want to do something else other than run Firefox , then they are hosed .
All the family is going to do is resent you for forcing linux on them .
Just wait until they want to play a game they bought on Bestbuy .
All the propaganda about the apparent superiority of open source software wo n't impress them when their game wo n't run.One would be better off setting up a limited user account on windows , and tell them to only use the administrator account when they are absolutely sure they want to install a piece of software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When they want to do something else other than run Firefox, then they are hosed.
All the family is going to do is resent you for forcing linux on them.
Just wait until they want to play a game they bought on Bestbuy.
All the propaganda about the apparent superiority of open source software won't impress them when their game won't run.One would be better off setting up a limited user account on windows, and tell them to only use the administrator account when they are absolutely sure they want to install a piece of software.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075364</id>
	<title>Are you insane?</title>
	<author>netpixie</author>
	<datestamp>1258051320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've only had to be sysadmin for one person (my father) and that (until recently) was enough of a pain in the arse. How do you cope with 7?</p><p>Anyway, I have solved my problem pretty easily. Last time his machine ground to a halt under the weight of virii, malware and windows rot, I told him it was broken and then he need to buy a Mac. He did so (although he complained a bit about the cost) and (touch wood) I haven't had to deal with a single support incident since.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've only had to be sysadmin for one person ( my father ) and that ( until recently ) was enough of a pain in the arse .
How do you cope with 7 ? Anyway , I have solved my problem pretty easily .
Last time his machine ground to a halt under the weight of virii , malware and windows rot , I told him it was broken and then he need to buy a Mac .
He did so ( although he complained a bit about the cost ) and ( touch wood ) I have n't had to deal with a single support incident since .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've only had to be sysadmin for one person (my father) and that (until recently) was enough of a pain in the arse.
How do you cope with 7?Anyway, I have solved my problem pretty easily.
Last time his machine ground to a halt under the weight of virii, malware and windows rot, I told him it was broken and then he need to buy a Mac.
He did so (although he complained a bit about the cost) and (touch wood) I haven't had to deal with a single support incident since.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076826</id>
	<title>Norton Ghost</title>
	<author>tonytnnt</author>
	<datestamp>1258056000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My grandfather has similar problems. He's very particular about where his icons are, and uses some specialized software (he's on the computer at least as much time as me every day, surfing the internet, watching videos, emailing, etc.) but doesn't deal well with change or self support. So, he got an external hard drive and a copy of Norton Ghost. I have it setup to do weekly images of the drive. That way, if he gets a virus, whatever, I just go back to a previous revision that is virus free.</p><p>Another alternative to this would be a Mac with Time Machine. If all they do is internet and school related tasks, a Mac really is an easy solution. More expensive, yes, but it works. Slap an external hard drive on there, turn on Time Machine, and bam, instant backup using revisions. And the key word here is easy. Realize that even though you can fix their issues, the amount of frustration and aggrevation on your parents part, in addition to the amount of time spent to fix/restore the OS every 8 months likely justifies the extra money in switching. Also, what happens if you move or are otherwise unavailable to fix the PC? What if it breaks the day after you leave for a two week trip? What about the risk of identity theft? Just a few things to consider when making computer buying choices (or whether or not you should get antivirus.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My grandfather has similar problems .
He 's very particular about where his icons are , and uses some specialized software ( he 's on the computer at least as much time as me every day , surfing the internet , watching videos , emailing , etc .
) but does n't deal well with change or self support .
So , he got an external hard drive and a copy of Norton Ghost .
I have it setup to do weekly images of the drive .
That way , if he gets a virus , whatever , I just go back to a previous revision that is virus free.Another alternative to this would be a Mac with Time Machine .
If all they do is internet and school related tasks , a Mac really is an easy solution .
More expensive , yes , but it works .
Slap an external hard drive on there , turn on Time Machine , and bam , instant backup using revisions .
And the key word here is easy .
Realize that even though you can fix their issues , the amount of frustration and aggrevation on your parents part , in addition to the amount of time spent to fix/restore the OS every 8 months likely justifies the extra money in switching .
Also , what happens if you move or are otherwise unavailable to fix the PC ?
What if it breaks the day after you leave for a two week trip ?
What about the risk of identity theft ?
Just a few things to consider when making computer buying choices ( or whether or not you should get antivirus .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My grandfather has similar problems.
He's very particular about where his icons are, and uses some specialized software (he's on the computer at least as much time as me every day, surfing the internet, watching videos, emailing, etc.
) but doesn't deal well with change or self support.
So, he got an external hard drive and a copy of Norton Ghost.
I have it setup to do weekly images of the drive.
That way, if he gets a virus, whatever, I just go back to a previous revision that is virus free.Another alternative to this would be a Mac with Time Machine.
If all they do is internet and school related tasks, a Mac really is an easy solution.
More expensive, yes, but it works.
Slap an external hard drive on there, turn on Time Machine, and bam, instant backup using revisions.
And the key word here is easy.
Realize that even though you can fix their issues, the amount of frustration and aggrevation on your parents part, in addition to the amount of time spent to fix/restore the OS every 8 months likely justifies the extra money in switching.
Also, what happens if you move or are otherwise unavailable to fix the PC?
What if it breaks the day after you leave for a two week trip?
What about the risk of identity theft?
Just a few things to consider when making computer buying choices (or whether or not you should get antivirus.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076234</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>HideyoshiJP</author>
	<datestamp>1258054080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I did this at home on the kitchen PC that gets most of its use surfing the web. It's worked rather well so far, at least until the Ubuntu 9.10 update in which a kernel bug caused my wireless adapter to no longer connect to my hidden WPA2 network. I still think it's a great idea.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I did this at home on the kitchen PC that gets most of its use surfing the web .
It 's worked rather well so far , at least until the Ubuntu 9.10 update in which a kernel bug caused my wireless adapter to no longer connect to my hidden WPA2 network .
I still think it 's a great idea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I did this at home on the kitchen PC that gets most of its use surfing the web.
It's worked rather well so far, at least until the Ubuntu 9.10 update in which a kernel bug caused my wireless adapter to no longer connect to my hidden WPA2 network.
I still think it's a great idea.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074684</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30081588</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258031100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>truth be known vet school is more difficult to get int</p><p>Funny, that I only hear this from people who are in vet school or more commonly their significant other. Its like... It's almost like that need to compensate for something.........</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>truth be known vet school is more difficult to get intFunny , that I only hear this from people who are in vet school or more commonly their significant other .
Its like... It 's almost like that need to compensate for something........ .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>truth be known vet school is more difficult to get intFunny, that I only hear this from people who are in vet school or more commonly their significant other.
Its like... It's almost like that need to compensate for something.........</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078086</id>
	<title>Re:The last time I had this problem...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258017180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wait, you were paid to fix a man's computer, and you installed Ubuntu and left him with it? Even though he didn't want it? What the hell?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wait , you were paid to fix a man 's computer , and you installed Ubuntu and left him with it ?
Even though he did n't want it ?
What the hell ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wait, you were paid to fix a man's computer, and you installed Ubuntu and left him with it?
Even though he didn't want it?
What the hell?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074896</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078208</id>
	<title>ObCar Analogy time...</title>
	<author>Minwee</author>
	<datestamp>1258017660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One time some guy paid me to fix his car.  I took out the engine and replaced the whole thing with a box full of pinball machine parts.  If he had put some effort into it I'm sure he could have assembled the parts into some sort of working electric motor, or maybe a time machine, but he just couldn't be bothered.
</p><p>He got pissed and tried to sue me.  Can you believe it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One time some guy paid me to fix his car .
I took out the engine and replaced the whole thing with a box full of pinball machine parts .
If he had put some effort into it I 'm sure he could have assembled the parts into some sort of working electric motor , or maybe a time machine , but he just could n't be bothered .
He got pissed and tried to sue me .
Can you believe it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One time some guy paid me to fix his car.
I took out the engine and replaced the whole thing with a box full of pinball machine parts.
If he had put some effort into it I'm sure he could have assembled the parts into some sort of working electric motor, or maybe a time machine, but he just couldn't be bothered.
He got pissed and tried to sue me.
Can you believe it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074896</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30080092</id>
	<title>Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew</title>
	<author>bogibear</author>
	<datestamp>1258024260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Screw the macs, get them an Etch-a-sketch.  That way reformat is just a few good shakes away.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Screw the macs , get them an Etch-a-sketch .
That way reformat is just a few good shakes away .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Screw the macs, get them an Etch-a-sketch.
That way reformat is just a few good shakes away.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30081264</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>Johnny Mnemonic</author>
	<datestamp>1258029360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>It's this back and forth that makes me wonder if we'll ever get or stay married.</i> <br> <br>Do yourself a favor and don't.  If you don't respect her now, and she doesn't respect you, that will never change.  You'll spend the rest of your life trying to prove yourself to her, and feeling worthless all the while.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's this back and forth that makes me wonder if we 'll ever get or stay married .
Do yourself a favor and do n't .
If you do n't respect her now , and she does n't respect you , that will never change .
You 'll spend the rest of your life trying to prove yourself to her , and feeling worthless all the while .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's this back and forth that makes me wonder if we'll ever get or stay married.
Do yourself a favor and don't.
If you don't respect her now, and she doesn't respect you, that will never change.
You'll spend the rest of your life trying to prove yourself to her, and feeling worthless all the while.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074874</id>
	<title>live cd backup</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258050060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know there is a linux option for this, I am assuming someone makes a windows tool fot it as well.  Create a livecd rescue of how you tweak the system for their use.  They corrupt their system, boot the live cd, reformat the system to the way that you set it up as opposed to pure stock.  Wash, rinse, repeat.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know there is a linux option for this , I am assuming someone makes a windows tool fot it as well .
Create a livecd rescue of how you tweak the system for their use .
They corrupt their system , boot the live cd , reformat the system to the way that you set it up as opposed to pure stock .
Wash , rinse , repeat .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know there is a linux option for this, I am assuming someone makes a windows tool fot it as well.
Create a livecd rescue of how you tweak the system for their use.
They corrupt their system, boot the live cd, reformat the system to the way that you set it up as opposed to pure stock.
Wash, rinse, repeat.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074696</id>
	<title>Buy them a Mac</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258049580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously.  I had similar issues and now have both my parents converted over to being happy Apple users.  My support time has dropped to a truly negligible amount, and they're happier as well.  It may sound facetious, but prevention works far better than education when those concerned have no interest in learning.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously .
I had similar issues and now have both my parents converted over to being happy Apple users .
My support time has dropped to a truly negligible amount , and they 're happier as well .
It may sound facetious , but prevention works far better than education when those concerned have no interest in learning .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously.
I had similar issues and now have both my parents converted over to being happy Apple users.
My support time has dropped to a truly negligible amount, and they're happier as well.
It may sound facetious, but prevention works far better than education when those concerned have no interest in learning.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075970</id>
	<title>Switch to Linux! (keep the family on windows)</title>
	<author>SleepingWaterBear</author>
	<datestamp>1258053240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I switched to Linux a few years ago, since then, I claim that I windows has changed too much, I don't know how to use it anymore, and that I've forgotten what I did know.  It's actually more or less true, and since they think that computer problem solving is a matter of knowledge rather than method, I've been much less likely to be asked for help since then.  When asked for help I just tell them how I'd go about learning how to solve the problem and they find someone else usually.</p><p>Though, the recommendation I saw above of moving the family to Mac is actually a really good idea.  Mac users have way, way less tech support issues.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I switched to Linux a few years ago , since then , I claim that I windows has changed too much , I do n't know how to use it anymore , and that I 've forgotten what I did know .
It 's actually more or less true , and since they think that computer problem solving is a matter of knowledge rather than method , I 've been much less likely to be asked for help since then .
When asked for help I just tell them how I 'd go about learning how to solve the problem and they find someone else usually.Though , the recommendation I saw above of moving the family to Mac is actually a really good idea .
Mac users have way , way less tech support issues .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I switched to Linux a few years ago, since then, I claim that I windows has changed too much, I don't know how to use it anymore, and that I've forgotten what I did know.
It's actually more or less true, and since they think that computer problem solving is a matter of knowledge rather than method, I've been much less likely to be asked for help since then.
When asked for help I just tell them how I'd go about learning how to solve the problem and they find someone else usually.Though, the recommendation I saw above of moving the family to Mac is actually a really good idea.
Mac users have way, way less tech support issues.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30080618</id>
	<title>The f'in magic method</title>
	<author>gestalt\_n\_pepper</author>
	<datestamp>1258026360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My sister claims that I can fix a computer just by walking near it or looking over her shoulder when she's about to do something er... creative. Seems my nephew has the same ability.</p><p>It does save so much time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My sister claims that I can fix a computer just by walking near it or looking over her shoulder when she 's about to do something er... creative. Seems my nephew has the same ability.It does save so much time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My sister claims that I can fix a computer just by walking near it or looking over her shoulder when she's about to do something er... creative. Seems my nephew has the same ability.It does save so much time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30085580</id>
	<title>Keep a replacement on hand!</title>
	<author>lcmail</author>
	<datestamp>1258120320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have the same problem with more family members in more locations so I tell them to buy a certain small form factor HP computer or a certain Lenovo laptop. I can UPS them a replacement very quickly at their expense. Each has a backup drive and some use cloud storage. Now they all want Netbooks. Any ideas on the best all around Netbook?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have the same problem with more family members in more locations so I tell them to buy a certain small form factor HP computer or a certain Lenovo laptop .
I can UPS them a replacement very quickly at their expense .
Each has a backup drive and some use cloud storage .
Now they all want Netbooks .
Any ideas on the best all around Netbook ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have the same problem with more family members in more locations so I tell them to buy a certain small form factor HP computer or a certain Lenovo laptop.
I can UPS them a replacement very quickly at their expense.
Each has a backup drive and some use cloud storage.
Now they all want Netbooks.
Any ideas on the best all around Netbook?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30081546</id>
	<title>Linux and the Mac aren't the only cures...</title>
	<author>camperslo</author>
	<datestamp>1258030920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><b>Euthanasia!</b></p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Euthanasia !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Euthanasia!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074674</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075612</id>
	<title>only two solutions...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258052040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1.  educate them NOT to download anything under the sun, open every email that comes through, click on every possible link to anything, etc.</p><p>2.  setup or get them a system where they can do nothing to harm themselves</p><p>I chose number 1 for my folks, because i respect them and didn't feel like treating them like plebianic peons.  i coined the phrase "think before you click", and it didn't take more than a month for them to fully realize the wisdom of not downloading programs, opening unknown emails, etc. because their computer just continued to work (and yes, it was WinXP).  and besides, an educated user is much better than an uneducated user sitting at a dumb terminal.</p><p>you don't need any manual or resource.  just use the history of the situation.  downloading everything under the sun, opening every email under the sun, clicking every link under the sun, has caused multitudes of problems.  DONT DO IT.  it's that simple.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1. educate them NOT to download anything under the sun , open every email that comes through , click on every possible link to anything , etc.2 .
setup or get them a system where they can do nothing to harm themselvesI chose number 1 for my folks , because i respect them and did n't feel like treating them like plebianic peons .
i coined the phrase " think before you click " , and it did n't take more than a month for them to fully realize the wisdom of not downloading programs , opening unknown emails , etc .
because their computer just continued to work ( and yes , it was WinXP ) .
and besides , an educated user is much better than an uneducated user sitting at a dumb terminal.you do n't need any manual or resource .
just use the history of the situation .
downloading everything under the sun , opening every email under the sun , clicking every link under the sun , has caused multitudes of problems .
DONT DO IT .
it 's that simple .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.  educate them NOT to download anything under the sun, open every email that comes through, click on every possible link to anything, etc.2.
setup or get them a system where they can do nothing to harm themselvesI chose number 1 for my folks, because i respect them and didn't feel like treating them like plebianic peons.
i coined the phrase "think before you click", and it didn't take more than a month for them to fully realize the wisdom of not downloading programs, opening unknown emails, etc.
because their computer just continued to work (and yes, it was WinXP).
and besides, an educated user is much better than an uneducated user sitting at a dumb terminal.you don't need any manual or resource.
just use the history of the situation.
downloading everything under the sun, opening every email under the sun, clicking every link under the sun, has caused multitudes of problems.
DONT DO IT.
it's that simple.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30079770</id>
	<title>Looking at the wrong security flaws</title>
	<author>yelvington</author>
	<datestamp>1258023240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The security flaws in my house are 9, 26, and ~50 years old, with no technical background aside from surfing the internet</p></div></blockquote><p>No. Stop blaming the users and place the blame squarely where it belongs: Microsoft.</p><p><strong>This is not a hard problem to fix.</strong> I've long ago moved my elderly mother, my mother-in-law and my kids to Linux. Ubuntu Just Works. They don't care whether it's Linux or OS X or Windows; they're using Firefox to browse the Web, and Facebook is Facebook on any platform. A desktop is a desktop is a desktop. Operating systems are irrelevant until they start creating trouble for you, and Windows is a constant source of trouble.</p><p>The Mac is a reasonable solution but not if you already own the computer, and it offers no real net advantage over Linux. (I am running Ubuntu in preference to OS X on my MacBook.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The security flaws in my house are 9 , 26 , and ~ 50 years old , with no technical background aside from surfing the internetNo .
Stop blaming the users and place the blame squarely where it belongs : Microsoft.This is not a hard problem to fix .
I 've long ago moved my elderly mother , my mother-in-law and my kids to Linux .
Ubuntu Just Works .
They do n't care whether it 's Linux or OS X or Windows ; they 're using Firefox to browse the Web , and Facebook is Facebook on any platform .
A desktop is a desktop is a desktop .
Operating systems are irrelevant until they start creating trouble for you , and Windows is a constant source of trouble.The Mac is a reasonable solution but not if you already own the computer , and it offers no real net advantage over Linux .
( I am running Ubuntu in preference to OS X on my MacBook .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The security flaws in my house are 9, 26, and ~50 years old, with no technical background aside from surfing the internetNo.
Stop blaming the users and place the blame squarely where it belongs: Microsoft.This is not a hard problem to fix.
I've long ago moved my elderly mother, my mother-in-law and my kids to Linux.
Ubuntu Just Works.
They don't care whether it's Linux or OS X or Windows; they're using Firefox to browse the Web, and Facebook is Facebook on any platform.
A desktop is a desktop is a desktop.
Operating systems are irrelevant until they start creating trouble for you, and Windows is a constant source of trouble.The Mac is a reasonable solution but not if you already own the computer, and it offers no real net advantage over Linux.
(I am running Ubuntu in preference to OS X on my MacBook.
)
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30112158</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258308600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>     My sister has a Mac.  My parents have an Ubuntu box, and a mythtv.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Relatives have computer problems?  I suggest Ubuntu.  If they want me to fix some Windows thing they pay, and it's enough that they might just get someone local to do it.  I start at $50 and go from there, I point out that if they ditched Windows they would not have these problems.  One of my Uncles now also has ubuntu on a few systems.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ""Why can't it just work?", and the fact that it doesn't is put on my shoulders as the "tech" generation. And that's that."<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I rebut to these people that Windows *is* broken, I don't think it WILL "just work", and to blame Microsoft -- I point out as a tech, I avoid Windows like the plague so don't blame me for it.  I then suggest they use Ubuntu or get a Mac.  (*I* don't like Macs personally but I know they are pretty nice.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My sister has a Mac .
My parents have an Ubuntu box , and a mythtv .
          Relatives have computer problems ?
I suggest Ubuntu .
If they want me to fix some Windows thing they pay , and it 's enough that they might just get someone local to do it .
I start at $ 50 and go from there , I point out that if they ditched Windows they would not have these problems .
One of my Uncles now also has ubuntu on a few systems .
          " " Why ca n't it just work ?
" , and the fact that it does n't is put on my shoulders as the " tech " generation .
And that 's that .
"           I rebut to these people that Windows * is * broken , I do n't think it WILL " just work " , and to blame Microsoft -- I point out as a tech , I avoid Windows like the plague so do n't blame me for it .
I then suggest they use Ubuntu or get a Mac .
( * I * do n't like Macs personally but I know they are pretty nice .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>     My sister has a Mac.
My parents have an Ubuntu box, and a mythtv.
          Relatives have computer problems?
I suggest Ubuntu.
If they want me to fix some Windows thing they pay, and it's enough that they might just get someone local to do it.
I start at $50 and go from there, I point out that if they ditched Windows they would not have these problems.
One of my Uncles now also has ubuntu on a few systems.
          ""Why can't it just work?
", and the fact that it doesn't is put on my shoulders as the "tech" generation.
And that's that.
"
          I rebut to these people that Windows *is* broken, I don't think it WILL "just work", and to blame Microsoft -- I point out as a tech, I avoid Windows like the plague so don't blame me for it.
I then suggest they use Ubuntu or get a Mac.
(*I* don't like Macs personally but I know they are pretty nice.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074816</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078396</id>
	<title>Re:Buy them a Mac</title>
	<author>tadauphoenix</author>
	<datestamp>1258018440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Funny thing is, this is the canned response of any mac fanboy. How much does a new mac cost? How much does replacing paid-for software cost? What happens later when your user(s) is(are) complaining about compatibility? Do you say "'just' buy this software, and you'll be ok!"</p><p>Apple built themselves a shiny money pit in the name of security/stability - which is more of a fanboy-guarded white lie. I use a macbook pro intensely, every day, and am glad to be back on my smooth, insanely fast, stable XP machine at night.</p><p>Instead of burning a few thousand hard-earned dollars on an entirely new platform with an all-new learning curve, multiplied by X users, perhaps try:<br>- VMware running XP, with one-button backup states<br>- MS SteadyState<br>- Maybe 70 bux on a backup software solution to DVDs<br>- Use System Restore! This is your upfront one-click ass-saver in most situations.<br>- Software that tracks registry changes, allows backup, restore, stepping, etc.<br>- Maybe configure XP or win7 correctly upon first install, instead of handing off the newborn system in its initial highly adaptable state.</p><p>The difference between OSX and Win, is under OSX you're condescendingly told what to do and how you will do it, and if you don't, you will answer to the Daemons of BEESDEE, in a realm of slashes and killing, mice are just white roaches, dumping cores in bitbuckets through a series of pipes, all while your feeble commands must be heard by the god Sudo. Whereas in Win you can do what you want, right away. If you want to run a secure system, make it happen. If you have other intentions, make it happen, it's your show. Not every computing scenario requires dropping a computer on the internet upon system birth and measuring up it's ability to handle an attack.</p><p>Buy a mac! Everyone can! Because everyone has thousands of dollars to throw gobs of money at the problem until it's fixed. Or, accomplish the same end goal with minimal costs, while maintaining a familiar environment.</p><p>Cost effective solutions, not fanboyism!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Funny thing is , this is the canned response of any mac fanboy .
How much does a new mac cost ?
How much does replacing paid-for software cost ?
What happens later when your user ( s ) is ( are ) complaining about compatibility ?
Do you say " 'just ' buy this software , and you 'll be ok !
" Apple built themselves a shiny money pit in the name of security/stability - which is more of a fanboy-guarded white lie .
I use a macbook pro intensely , every day , and am glad to be back on my smooth , insanely fast , stable XP machine at night.Instead of burning a few thousand hard-earned dollars on an entirely new platform with an all-new learning curve , multiplied by X users , perhaps try : - VMware running XP , with one-button backup states- MS SteadyState- Maybe 70 bux on a backup software solution to DVDs- Use System Restore !
This is your upfront one-click ass-saver in most situations.- Software that tracks registry changes , allows backup , restore , stepping , etc.- Maybe configure XP or win7 correctly upon first install , instead of handing off the newborn system in its initial highly adaptable state.The difference between OSX and Win , is under OSX you 're condescendingly told what to do and how you will do it , and if you do n't , you will answer to the Daemons of BEESDEE , in a realm of slashes and killing , mice are just white roaches , dumping cores in bitbuckets through a series of pipes , all while your feeble commands must be heard by the god Sudo .
Whereas in Win you can do what you want , right away .
If you want to run a secure system , make it happen .
If you have other intentions , make it happen , it 's your show .
Not every computing scenario requires dropping a computer on the internet upon system birth and measuring up it 's ability to handle an attack.Buy a mac !
Everyone can !
Because everyone has thousands of dollars to throw gobs of money at the problem until it 's fixed .
Or , accomplish the same end goal with minimal costs , while maintaining a familiar environment.Cost effective solutions , not fanboyism !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Funny thing is, this is the canned response of any mac fanboy.
How much does a new mac cost?
How much does replacing paid-for software cost?
What happens later when your user(s) is(are) complaining about compatibility?
Do you say "'just' buy this software, and you'll be ok!
"Apple built themselves a shiny money pit in the name of security/stability - which is more of a fanboy-guarded white lie.
I use a macbook pro intensely, every day, and am glad to be back on my smooth, insanely fast, stable XP machine at night.Instead of burning a few thousand hard-earned dollars on an entirely new platform with an all-new learning curve, multiplied by X users, perhaps try:- VMware running XP, with one-button backup states- MS SteadyState- Maybe 70 bux on a backup software solution to DVDs- Use System Restore!
This is your upfront one-click ass-saver in most situations.- Software that tracks registry changes, allows backup, restore, stepping, etc.- Maybe configure XP or win7 correctly upon first install, instead of handing off the newborn system in its initial highly adaptable state.The difference between OSX and Win, is under OSX you're condescendingly told what to do and how you will do it, and if you don't, you will answer to the Daemons of BEESDEE, in a realm of slashes and killing, mice are just white roaches, dumping cores in bitbuckets through a series of pipes, all while your feeble commands must be heard by the god Sudo.
Whereas in Win you can do what you want, right away.
If you want to run a secure system, make it happen.
If you have other intentions, make it happen, it's your show.
Not every computing scenario requires dropping a computer on the internet upon system birth and measuring up it's ability to handle an attack.Buy a mac!
Everyone can!
Because everyone has thousands of dollars to throw gobs of money at the problem until it's fixed.
Or, accomplish the same end goal with minimal costs, while maintaining a familiar environment.Cost effective solutions, not fanboyism!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074696</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077298</id>
	<title>Easing the Job of Family Tech Support?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258057620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Duh?  switch to Linux.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Duh ?
switch to Linux .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Duh?
switch to Linux.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077412</id>
	<title>Re:Install Ubuntu</title>
	<author>gad\_zuki!</author>
	<datestamp>1258057920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or just set them up as user and NOT administrator and still use the Windows they paid for. Modern apps run fine as user.  Setup auto-update, put on a free AV scanner like Security Essentials, and off you go.</p><p>When it comes to family I just lock them down. I dont have time to let them play with admin rights and then think they can call me when they download nakedphotos.exe.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or just set them up as user and NOT administrator and still use the Windows they paid for .
Modern apps run fine as user .
Setup auto-update , put on a free AV scanner like Security Essentials , and off you go.When it comes to family I just lock them down .
I dont have time to let them play with admin rights and then think they can call me when they download nakedphotos.exe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or just set them up as user and NOT administrator and still use the Windows they paid for.
Modern apps run fine as user.
Setup auto-update, put on a free AV scanner like Security Essentials, and off you go.When it comes to family I just lock them down.
I dont have time to let them play with admin rights and then think they can call me when they download nakedphotos.exe.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074680</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30088540</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>cbiltcliffe</author>
	<datestamp>1258136520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I am DAMN good with computers........</p><p>snip<nobr> <wbr></nobr>........I support our office of windows PCs and McAffee.......</p></div><p>These two statements are incongruous. McAfee is crap antivirus, worsted only by Norton.</p><p>Unless, of course, you work for a manager who picks products based on colour rather than the recommendation of their technical support person.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I am DAMN good with computers........snip ........I support our office of windows PCs and McAffee.......These two statements are incongruous .
McAfee is crap antivirus , worsted only by Norton.Unless , of course , you work for a manager who picks products based on colour rather than the recommendation of their technical support person .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am DAMN good with computers........snip ........I support our office of windows PCs and McAffee.......These two statements are incongruous.
McAfee is crap antivirus, worsted only by Norton.Unless, of course, you work for a manager who picks products based on colour rather than the recommendation of their technical support person.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078488</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074962</id>
	<title>Re:Give Up</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258050240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>On that note, how is the malware getting onto their machine? Is it exploiting software security flaws (e.g. in the browser)? Or are the users downloading and running programs from the Internet? If it's the former, get different software (this includes patches they're missing). If it's the latter, explain to them that a program does not necessarily behave like its author/distributor tells you it does (and the implications of this, i.e. trojans). If they cannot acknowledge this lack of trustworthiness, there is nothing you can do.</htmltext>
<tokenext>On that note , how is the malware getting onto their machine ?
Is it exploiting software security flaws ( e.g .
in the browser ) ?
Or are the users downloading and running programs from the Internet ?
If it 's the former , get different software ( this includes patches they 're missing ) .
If it 's the latter , explain to them that a program does not necessarily behave like its author/distributor tells you it does ( and the implications of this , i.e .
trojans ) . If they can not acknowledge this lack of trustworthiness , there is nothing you can do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On that note, how is the malware getting onto their machine?
Is it exploiting software security flaws (e.g.
in the browser)?
Or are the users downloading and running programs from the Internet?
If it's the former, get different software (this includes patches they're missing).
If it's the latter, explain to them that a program does not necessarily behave like its author/distributor tells you it does (and the implications of this, i.e.
trojans). If they cannot acknowledge this lack of trustworthiness, there is nothing you can do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074674</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30092968</id>
	<title>What?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258113660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Idk what your families' problems are, but my mom is grasping the things I show her rather well.</p><p>She has had a few mix-ups, a few questions that were awkward and had easy answers and so on and so forth.</p><p>Once I show her, she applies it and learns it well. I usually do not get a repeat visit for the same reason unless she acted on something because she thought she had to quick and I hadn't seen what caused it. (which in this case was a good thing, instant malware installer asking her to download it)</p><p>If a family member is willing to learn it and not subborn, they will learn it. She can't edit user accounts/get into AD or anything to that extent, but she can change her screensaver, try different things and I encourage her to experiment, I've told her anything she breaks I can fix and this seems to encourage her to try things and if it does not come back as expected, she will take a logical action to try and undo the previous act.</p><p>I don't understand why people aren't learning basic tasks on their own, it's an annoying handicap that people shouldn't allow themselves to have.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Idk what your families ' problems are , but my mom is grasping the things I show her rather well.She has had a few mix-ups , a few questions that were awkward and had easy answers and so on and so forth.Once I show her , she applies it and learns it well .
I usually do not get a repeat visit for the same reason unless she acted on something because she thought she had to quick and I had n't seen what caused it .
( which in this case was a good thing , instant malware installer asking her to download it ) If a family member is willing to learn it and not subborn , they will learn it .
She ca n't edit user accounts/get into AD or anything to that extent , but she can change her screensaver , try different things and I encourage her to experiment , I 've told her anything she breaks I can fix and this seems to encourage her to try things and if it does not come back as expected , she will take a logical action to try and undo the previous act.I do n't understand why people are n't learning basic tasks on their own , it 's an annoying handicap that people should n't allow themselves to have .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Idk what your families' problems are, but my mom is grasping the things I show her rather well.She has had a few mix-ups, a few questions that were awkward and had easy answers and so on and so forth.Once I show her, she applies it and learns it well.
I usually do not get a repeat visit for the same reason unless she acted on something because she thought she had to quick and I hadn't seen what caused it.
(which in this case was a good thing, instant malware installer asking her to download it)If a family member is willing to learn it and not subborn, they will learn it.
She can't edit user accounts/get into AD or anything to that extent, but she can change her screensaver, try different things and I encourage her to experiment, I've told her anything she breaks I can fix and this seems to encourage her to try things and if it does not come back as expected, she will take a logical action to try and undo the previous act.I don't understand why people aren't learning basic tasks on their own, it's an annoying handicap that people shouldn't allow themselves to have.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074880</id>
	<title>I moved my relatives to Linux to free my weekends</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258050060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was in exactly the same problem, compounded by the fact that some of my relatives were a long distance away. My weekends were spend "fixing the computers" of in-laws and relatives.</p><p>So finally, I announced that I will stop supporting Windows. I moved 3 households to Linux (Ubuntu) and gave each user several hours of instruction on email, pictures and browsing. One user decided to buy a Mac instead.</p><p>The request for support are now down to one every couple of months for something trivial, generally a forgotten password.</p><p>I have my weekends back.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was in exactly the same problem , compounded by the fact that some of my relatives were a long distance away .
My weekends were spend " fixing the computers " of in-laws and relatives.So finally , I announced that I will stop supporting Windows .
I moved 3 households to Linux ( Ubuntu ) and gave each user several hours of instruction on email , pictures and browsing .
One user decided to buy a Mac instead.The request for support are now down to one every couple of months for something trivial , generally a forgotten password.I have my weekends back .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was in exactly the same problem, compounded by the fact that some of my relatives were a long distance away.
My weekends were spend "fixing the computers" of in-laws and relatives.So finally, I announced that I will stop supporting Windows.
I moved 3 households to Linux (Ubuntu) and gave each user several hours of instruction on email, pictures and browsing.
One user decided to buy a Mac instead.The request for support are now down to one every couple of months for something trivial, generally a forgotten password.I have my weekends back.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074906</id>
	<title>Remove administrative privileges</title>
	<author>Quirkz</author>
	<datestamp>1258050120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Give them each separate accounts, and remove administrator privileges. Have a backdoor administrator account so you can install something  for them if they need it, but otherwise limit their access.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Give them each separate accounts , and remove administrator privileges .
Have a backdoor administrator account so you can install something for them if they need it , but otherwise limit their access .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Give them each separate accounts, and remove administrator privileges.
Have a backdoor administrator account so you can install something  for them if they need it, but otherwise limit their access.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074832</id>
	<title>I finally fixed it once and for all...</title>
	<author>Kleppy</author>
	<datestamp>1258050000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I bought my Dad a Mac and then pointed him to my friend who's a Genius.


In all seriousness (did the above) and I locked his PC out. He's a user with no rights. I did everything with an administrative account and did NOT give him the password this time. Last time everything was peachy until I gave it to him.

Format/reload/lockout</htmltext>
<tokenext>I bought my Dad a Mac and then pointed him to my friend who 's a Genius .
In all seriousness ( did the above ) and I locked his PC out .
He 's a user with no rights .
I did everything with an administrative account and did NOT give him the password this time .
Last time everything was peachy until I gave it to him .
Format/reload/lockout</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I bought my Dad a Mac and then pointed him to my friend who's a Genius.
In all seriousness (did the above) and I locked his PC out.
He's a user with no rights.
I did everything with an administrative account and did NOT give him the password this time.
Last time everything was peachy until I gave it to him.
Format/reload/lockout</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076876</id>
	<title>Oh the computer guy</title>
	<author>MikeURL</author>
	<datestamp>1258056240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think what bugs me most is that family members think I get a thrill out of fixing their thoroughly infected PC.  Maybe that was true 15 years ago but now it is just a chore and one I'd rather they leave to a computer repair shop.  The only family members who actually DO appreciate me appropriately are the ones who have gotten a quote from someone to "fix" their computer and realized how expensive it is.</div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think what bugs me most is that family members think I get a thrill out of fixing their thoroughly infected PC .
Maybe that was true 15 years ago but now it is just a chore and one I 'd rather they leave to a computer repair shop .
The only family members who actually DO appreciate me appropriately are the ones who have gotten a quote from someone to " fix " their computer and realized how expensive it is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think what bugs me most is that family members think I get a thrill out of fixing their thoroughly infected PC.
Maybe that was true 15 years ago but now it is just a chore and one I'd rather they leave to a computer repair shop.
The only family members who actually DO appreciate me appropriately are the ones who have gotten a quote from someone to "fix" their computer and realized how expensive it is.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077134</id>
	<title>Eases up on the workload</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258057080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I found the easiest way to decrease the workload from repeat offenders of the friends &amp; family variety.</p><p>Tell the oldest male that uses the computer that the next time it happens, you're showing your mom/his wife the porn pages he's looking at.</p><p>Even if he doesn't start being careful with the websites he views, he won't ask you to fix it next time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I found the easiest way to decrease the workload from repeat offenders of the friends &amp; family variety.Tell the oldest male that uses the computer that the next time it happens , you 're showing your mom/his wife the porn pages he 's looking at.Even if he does n't start being careful with the websites he views , he wo n't ask you to fix it next time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I found the easiest way to decrease the workload from repeat offenders of the friends &amp; family variety.Tell the oldest male that uses the computer that the next time it happens, you're showing your mom/his wife the porn pages he's looking at.Even if he doesn't start being careful with the websites he views, he won't ask you to fix it next time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30080504</id>
	<title>It isn't a favor unless someone asks for it.</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1258025880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>I installed Ubuntu to head off a lot of these problem but he refused to use it.</i> </p><p>It doesn't matter if it's friend, family or client.</p><p>It doesn't matter if your are working for a cold beer and a plate of pretzels or charging twice the going rate for your "professional services."</p><p>You <b>never</b> make fundamental changes without asking.</p><p> Without informed consent.</p><p>If I ask you to secure and return my Windows system -<br>I expect you to secure and return my Windows system - not to replace it with whatever Linux distro and Open Source apps that suit your fancy.</p><p>"What part of "No" didn't you understand?" That is as sound a way for a judge to approach a suit for breach of contract as it is when he considers a charge of rape.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I installed Ubuntu to head off a lot of these problem but he refused to use it .
It does n't matter if it 's friend , family or client.It does n't matter if your are working for a cold beer and a plate of pretzels or charging twice the going rate for your " professional services .
" You never make fundamental changes without asking .
Without informed consent.If I ask you to secure and return my Windows system -I expect you to secure and return my Windows system - not to replace it with whatever Linux distro and Open Source apps that suit your fancy .
" What part of " No " did n't you understand ?
" That is as sound a way for a judge to approach a suit for breach of contract as it is when he considers a charge of rape .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>I installed Ubuntu to head off a lot of these problem but he refused to use it.
It doesn't matter if it's friend, family or client.It doesn't matter if your are working for a cold beer and a plate of pretzels or charging twice the going rate for your "professional services.
"You never make fundamental changes without asking.
Without informed consent.If I ask you to secure and return my Windows system -I expect you to secure and return my Windows system - not to replace it with whatever Linux distro and Open Source apps that suit your fancy.
"What part of "No" didn't you understand?
" That is as sound a way for a judge to approach a suit for breach of contract as it is when he considers a charge of rape.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074896</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077500</id>
	<title>Re:Give Up</title>
	<author>SQLGuru</author>
	<datestamp>1258058400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I make them have an MS Live Messenger account (they all run Windows).  I use the "remote desktop" like feature.  I take control.  It's faster than trying to get them to read off error messages.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I make them have an MS Live Messenger account ( they all run Windows ) .
I use the " remote desktop " like feature .
I take control .
It 's faster than trying to get them to read off error messages .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I make them have an MS Live Messenger account (they all run Windows).
I use the "remote desktop" like feature.
I take control.
It's faster than trying to get them to read off error messages.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075562</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077004</id>
	<title>migrate to mac</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258056660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No I don't like macs.  I hate them in fact.  But after going through this with my dad several times, I finally told him I would not help with his computer unless he chose a different os.  We tried kubuntu (then later ubuntu) for a couple of months but he never really took to it.  I was constantly answering questions and trying to find him software for various things.  Then I conviced him to buy a mac.  I spent a few nights the first week at his house explaining how to connect to the wifi in his house and installing the usual suspects (OO org, firefox, picasa, thunderbird etc.) but after walking him how to transfer files to and from his phone, I have not answered any questions since.  That was over a year ago!!! I have since repeated the process with his wife, my wife, some cousins and other family members.  I am so proud all my users are ditching their training wheels.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No I do n't like macs .
I hate them in fact .
But after going through this with my dad several times , I finally told him I would not help with his computer unless he chose a different os .
We tried kubuntu ( then later ubuntu ) for a couple of months but he never really took to it .
I was constantly answering questions and trying to find him software for various things .
Then I conviced him to buy a mac .
I spent a few nights the first week at his house explaining how to connect to the wifi in his house and installing the usual suspects ( OO org , firefox , picasa , thunderbird etc .
) but after walking him how to transfer files to and from his phone , I have not answered any questions since .
That was over a year ago ! ! !
I have since repeated the process with his wife , my wife , some cousins and other family members .
I am so proud all my users are ditching their training wheels .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No I don't like macs.
I hate them in fact.
But after going through this with my dad several times, I finally told him I would not help with his computer unless he chose a different os.
We tried kubuntu (then later ubuntu) for a couple of months but he never really took to it.
I was constantly answering questions and trying to find him software for various things.
Then I conviced him to buy a mac.
I spent a few nights the first week at his house explaining how to connect to the wifi in his house and installing the usual suspects (OO org, firefox, picasa, thunderbird etc.
) but after walking him how to transfer files to and from his phone, I have not answered any questions since.
That was over a year ago!!!
I have since repeated the process with his wife, my wife, some cousins and other family members.
I am so proud all my users are ditching their training wheels.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30082998</id>
	<title>Re:The last time I had this problem...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258042320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>changing your entire outlook on life and society because of one crabby old man is pretty sad.</p><p>some people are just stupid or emotionally stunted, you should think 'good, more for me', not try and appease them by changing yourself.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>changing your entire outlook on life and society because of one crabby old man is pretty sad.some people are just stupid or emotionally stunted , you should think 'good , more for me ' , not try and appease them by changing yourself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>changing your entire outlook on life and society because of one crabby old man is pretty sad.some people are just stupid or emotionally stunted, you should think 'good, more for me', not try and appease them by changing yourself.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074896</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074724</id>
	<title>Tell them to stop using Windows</title>
	<author>cromar</author>
	<datestamp>1258049640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Seriously.  Is there anything they wouldn't be able to do on Linux or BSD or OS X?  If not, then tell them if they don't switch their OS you won't be able to help them any more.  That would solve the problem handily, at least for the foreseeable future.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously .
Is there anything they would n't be able to do on Linux or BSD or OS X ?
If not , then tell them if they do n't switch their OS you wo n't be able to help them any more .
That would solve the problem handily , at least for the foreseeable future .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously.
Is there anything they wouldn't be able to do on Linux or BSD or OS X?
If not, then tell them if they don't switch their OS you won't be able to help them any more.
That would solve the problem handily, at least for the foreseeable future.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30079302</id>
	<title>Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn</title>
	<author>Dodder</author>
	<datestamp>1258021800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Here's a good one for you to really piss her off and I use it all the time...

I'd RATHER be a doctor or veterinarian.  It's so much easier.  At least when your patient dies you can just say "Sorry, we did everything we could, but he/she didn't make it."  Try telling that to the CEO of a corporation, "Sorry the computer crashed and the hard drive failed.  We couldn't recover the data and the backups have been failing for the last 3 months because you wouldn't spend the money on performing any recovery tests.  There's nothing we can do.  Your business didn't make it."  Yeah, right.  You work until it's working again.  You have roughly the same education as a doctor, but get paid a fraction of what they make and their procedures don't change every 3 months.  They probably perform the same procedures they learned in their interships their entire careers.  My dog got the equivalent of canine vertigo.  You know what the vet told me?  "We don't really know what causes it.  It usually happens in older dogs.  It should go away in a few days."  Done.  $150.  Try pulling that shit about a computer issue.  "Looks like you got a computer virus.  We don't really know what causes it.  It should go away in a few days. If it doesn't buy a new computer."  Done.  $150.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's a good one for you to really piss her off and I use it all the time.. . I 'd RATHER be a doctor or veterinarian .
It 's so much easier .
At least when your patient dies you can just say " Sorry , we did everything we could , but he/she did n't make it .
" Try telling that to the CEO of a corporation , " Sorry the computer crashed and the hard drive failed .
We could n't recover the data and the backups have been failing for the last 3 months because you would n't spend the money on performing any recovery tests .
There 's nothing we can do .
Your business did n't make it .
" Yeah , right .
You work until it 's working again .
You have roughly the same education as a doctor , but get paid a fraction of what they make and their procedures do n't change every 3 months .
They probably perform the same procedures they learned in their interships their entire careers .
My dog got the equivalent of canine vertigo .
You know what the vet told me ?
" We do n't really know what causes it .
It usually happens in older dogs .
It should go away in a few days .
" Done .
$ 150. Try pulling that shit about a computer issue .
" Looks like you got a computer virus .
We do n't really know what causes it .
It should go away in a few days .
If it does n't buy a new computer .
" Done .
$ 150 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's a good one for you to really piss her off and I use it all the time...

I'd RATHER be a doctor or veterinarian.
It's so much easier.
At least when your patient dies you can just say "Sorry, we did everything we could, but he/she didn't make it.
"  Try telling that to the CEO of a corporation, "Sorry the computer crashed and the hard drive failed.
We couldn't recover the data and the backups have been failing for the last 3 months because you wouldn't spend the money on performing any recovery tests.
There's nothing we can do.
Your business didn't make it.
"  Yeah, right.
You work until it's working again.
You have roughly the same education as a doctor, but get paid a fraction of what they make and their procedures don't change every 3 months.
They probably perform the same procedures they learned in their interships their entire careers.
My dog got the equivalent of canine vertigo.
You know what the vet told me?
"We don't really know what causes it.
It usually happens in older dogs.
It should go away in a few days.
"  Done.
$150.  Try pulling that shit about a computer issue.
"Looks like you got a computer virus.
We don't really know what causes it.
It should go away in a few days.
If it doesn't buy a new computer.
"  Done.
$150.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075596</id>
	<title>Iconoclast</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258051980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would suggest you stop providing tech support to your family.  I do not understand why so many technical people find it necessary to fix everyone's problems.  Stop proving free services to people.  I have no clue why people in our industry do not view their work as labor.  Only when your family pays a few hundred dollars for their own actions will they learn to stop downloading almost anything.  Until then, you'll find yourself removing almost every piece of spyware you can think of.  Hope this helps.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would suggest you stop providing tech support to your family .
I do not understand why so many technical people find it necessary to fix everyone 's problems .
Stop proving free services to people .
I have no clue why people in our industry do not view their work as labor .
Only when your family pays a few hundred dollars for their own actions will they learn to stop downloading almost anything .
Until then , you 'll find yourself removing almost every piece of spyware you can think of .
Hope this helps .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would suggest you stop providing tech support to your family.
I do not understand why so many technical people find it necessary to fix everyone's problems.
Stop proving free services to people.
I have no clue why people in our industry do not view their work as labor.
Only when your family pays a few hundred dollars for their own actions will they learn to stop downloading almost anything.
Until then, you'll find yourself removing almost every piece of spyware you can think of.
Hope this helps.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076044</id>
	<title>TrueImage is your friend</title>
	<author>LaughingCoder</author>
	<datestamp>1258053480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>After I get their machine the way they want it, with all the security patches and applications installed, I image it with Acronis TrueImage. Then I explain that if/when they get in trouble I will restore this image. Usually I image their corrupted machine before restoring so we can pull off any documents or pictures they might want to save (TrueImage can mount any image as a drive). While this doesn't prevent them from messing up their machines, it does minimize my support time in bringing them back online. And it has the added benefit of allowing me to easily expand or replace their hard drive should the need arise.</htmltext>
<tokenext>After I get their machine the way they want it , with all the security patches and applications installed , I image it with Acronis TrueImage .
Then I explain that if/when they get in trouble I will restore this image .
Usually I image their corrupted machine before restoring so we can pull off any documents or pictures they might want to save ( TrueImage can mount any image as a drive ) .
While this does n't prevent them from messing up their machines , it does minimize my support time in bringing them back online .
And it has the added benefit of allowing me to easily expand or replace their hard drive should the need arise .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After I get their machine the way they want it, with all the security patches and applications installed, I image it with Acronis TrueImage.
Then I explain that if/when they get in trouble I will restore this image.
Usually I image their corrupted machine before restoring so we can pull off any documents or pictures they might want to save (TrueImage can mount any image as a drive).
While this doesn't prevent them from messing up their machines, it does minimize my support time in bringing them back online.
And it has the added benefit of allowing me to easily expand or replace their hard drive should the need arise.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30079394</id>
	<title>Re:MS SteadyState</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1258022100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>No. Try Ubuntu.</i> </p><p>Try looking at what software your family runs.</p><p>Try thinking more about how they use a computer and less - much, much less - about how <b>you</b> use a computer.</p><p>Because <b>no one</b> is going to bend <b>willingly</b> to your needs and values.</p><p> <b>No one</b> is going to sacrifice a ten to fifteen year investment in Windows hardware, software and peripherals just to keep you happy.</p><p>Too many of the "conversion" stories on Slashdot have been tainted by hints of coercion:</p><p>Your Mom agrees to this to keep peace in the family, not because it something she wanted or needed.</p><p>It becomes easy to convince yourself that you were only trying to help.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No .
Try Ubuntu .
Try looking at what software your family runs.Try thinking more about how they use a computer and less - much , much less - about how you use a computer.Because no one is going to bend willingly to your needs and values .
No one is going to sacrifice a ten to fifteen year investment in Windows hardware , software and peripherals just to keep you happy.Too many of the " conversion " stories on Slashdot have been tainted by hints of coercion : Your Mom agrees to this to keep peace in the family , not because it something she wanted or needed.It becomes easy to convince yourself that you were only trying to help .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No.
Try Ubuntu.
Try looking at what software your family runs.Try thinking more about how they use a computer and less - much, much less - about how you use a computer.Because no one is going to bend willingly to your needs and values.
No one is going to sacrifice a ten to fifteen year investment in Windows hardware, software and peripherals just to keep you happy.Too many of the "conversion" stories on Slashdot have been tainted by hints of coercion:Your Mom agrees to this to keep peace in the family, not because it something she wanted or needed.It becomes easy to convince yourself that you were only trying to help.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075496</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076094</id>
	<title>Just create an image next time you reinstall...</title>
	<author>Vrtigo1</author>
	<datestamp>1258053540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you can educate them to avoid malware and viruses, that's great, but usually people want to click on every popup and answer yes to every prompt, so that hasn't worked too well in my experience.

Next time you have to reinstall their computer, just create an image of the OS in it's pristine newly-installed state and show them how to reimage the computer.  If you wanted to make it foolproof, you could create a second partition on the hard drive that doesn't show up in Windows and store the image and imaging software there, and add a selection list that appears when they boot: 1) boot Windows 2) reimage computer.  Then all you have to teach them is how to back up their bookmarks, saved passwords, e-mail, etc.  You could write a script that would copy all that stuff over to a network share and another script that would automatically run upon reimaging that would copy it all back.  Or, you could just set something up where all that stuff is backed up on a regular basis (which you really should do anyway), so they can just nuke it and then restore all their data afterwards.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you can educate them to avoid malware and viruses , that 's great , but usually people want to click on every popup and answer yes to every prompt , so that has n't worked too well in my experience .
Next time you have to reinstall their computer , just create an image of the OS in it 's pristine newly-installed state and show them how to reimage the computer .
If you wanted to make it foolproof , you could create a second partition on the hard drive that does n't show up in Windows and store the image and imaging software there , and add a selection list that appears when they boot : 1 ) boot Windows 2 ) reimage computer .
Then all you have to teach them is how to back up their bookmarks , saved passwords , e-mail , etc .
You could write a script that would copy all that stuff over to a network share and another script that would automatically run upon reimaging that would copy it all back .
Or , you could just set something up where all that stuff is backed up on a regular basis ( which you really should do anyway ) , so they can just nuke it and then restore all their data afterwards .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you can educate them to avoid malware and viruses, that's great, but usually people want to click on every popup and answer yes to every prompt, so that hasn't worked too well in my experience.
Next time you have to reinstall their computer, just create an image of the OS in it's pristine newly-installed state and show them how to reimage the computer.
If you wanted to make it foolproof, you could create a second partition on the hard drive that doesn't show up in Windows and store the image and imaging software there, and add a selection list that appears when they boot: 1) boot Windows 2) reimage computer.
Then all you have to teach them is how to back up their bookmarks, saved passwords, e-mail, etc.
You could write a script that would copy all that stuff over to a network share and another script that would automatically run upon reimaging that would copy it all back.
Or, you could just set something up where all that stuff is backed up on a regular basis (which you really should do anyway), so they can just nuke it and then restore all their data afterwards.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074954</id>
	<title>I've actually got something</title>
	<author>NervousWreck</author>
	<datestamp>1258050240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I am tech support for the 5 users in my house plus a friend's family of 8. In my house we use either Macs or one of my ubuntu boxes but for the friend I wrote up a three page document on safe surfing and anti virus/malware software. How to scan, update etc. I can send it to slashdot if you want, but some of it isn't in English.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I am tech support for the 5 users in my house plus a friend 's family of 8 .
In my house we use either Macs or one of my ubuntu boxes but for the friend I wrote up a three page document on safe surfing and anti virus/malware software .
How to scan , update etc .
I can send it to slashdot if you want , but some of it is n't in English .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am tech support for the 5 users in my house plus a friend's family of 8.
In my house we use either Macs or one of my ubuntu boxes but for the friend I wrote up a three page document on safe surfing and anti virus/malware software.
How to scan, update etc.
I can send it to slashdot if you want, but some of it isn't in English.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075922</id>
	<title>I no longer provide free Windows support</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258053060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not only does this work with my family, I used the Mac to escape providing freebie Windows support to friends and relatives.  When they ask about my recommendation for a new computer, I tell them <i>"Buy a Mac.  If you choose a PC, you are going to get stuck with either Vista or Windows 7.  I don't have either one, so I can't help if you go that way.  I'm finished wasting my time on Microsoft problems."</i>  If they buy a Mac, they won't need much help.  If they buy a PC, they won't expect me to help.  A win/win for me!</p><p>Of course, they CAN buy a netbook with XP, but in my experience the newbies who beg for free tech support are the same people who get talked "up" into buying a low-end full-sized notebook -- precisely the type of system most likely to suffer under Vista/Win7 (remember "Vista Capable"?)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not only does this work with my family , I used the Mac to escape providing freebie Windows support to friends and relatives .
When they ask about my recommendation for a new computer , I tell them " Buy a Mac .
If you choose a PC , you are going to get stuck with either Vista or Windows 7 .
I do n't have either one , so I ca n't help if you go that way .
I 'm finished wasting my time on Microsoft problems .
" If they buy a Mac , they wo n't need much help .
If they buy a PC , they wo n't expect me to help .
A win/win for me ! Of course , they CAN buy a netbook with XP , but in my experience the newbies who beg for free tech support are the same people who get talked " up " into buying a low-end full-sized notebook -- precisely the type of system most likely to suffer under Vista/Win7 ( remember " Vista Capable " ?
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not only does this work with my family, I used the Mac to escape providing freebie Windows support to friends and relatives.
When they ask about my recommendation for a new computer, I tell them "Buy a Mac.
If you choose a PC, you are going to get stuck with either Vista or Windows 7.
I don't have either one, so I can't help if you go that way.
I'm finished wasting my time on Microsoft problems.
"  If they buy a Mac, they won't need much help.
If they buy a PC, they won't expect me to help.
A win/win for me!Of course, they CAN buy a netbook with XP, but in my experience the newbies who beg for free tech support are the same people who get talked "up" into buying a low-end full-sized notebook -- precisely the type of system most likely to suffer under Vista/Win7 (remember "Vista Capable"?
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074696</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074922</id>
	<title>Get a Mac</title>
	<author>Jaysyn</author>
	<datestamp>1258050120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I got my mom a iMac 5 years ago &amp; have maybe spend a total of 7 hours working on it since then.  Two of those were upgrading the RAM &amp; two more were upgrading OSX.</p><p>I had never even touched OSX until we opened that iMac up.  I had no problems setting it up &amp; she has had no problems using or maintaining it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I got my mom a iMac 5 years ago &amp; have maybe spend a total of 7 hours working on it since then .
Two of those were upgrading the RAM &amp; two more were upgrading OSX.I had never even touched OSX until we opened that iMac up .
I had no problems setting it up &amp; she has had no problems using or maintaining it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I got my mom a iMac 5 years ago &amp; have maybe spend a total of 7 hours working on it since then.
Two of those were upgrading the RAM &amp; two more were upgrading OSX.I had never even touched OSX until we opened that iMac up.
I had no problems setting it up &amp; she has had no problems using or maintaining it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074780</id>
	<title>Easy</title>
	<author>dc29A</author>
	<datestamp>1258049880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I solved my tech support problems simply. I told my family, if they wanted me to fix their problems, they had to agree to a few things:<br>(1) I am admin on their machines.<br>(2) They are peons on their machines.<br>(3) ???<br>(4) Malware problem solved.<br>(5) Profit!</p><p>Install Firefox with Adblock, remove their administrative rights, set PCs to auto patch, your/their malware problems are solved. When they need to install new software, I do it for them, it's worth the hassle instead of constantly cleaning up viruses.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I solved my tech support problems simply .
I told my family , if they wanted me to fix their problems , they had to agree to a few things : ( 1 ) I am admin on their machines .
( 2 ) They are peons on their machines .
( 3 ) ? ? ?
( 4 ) Malware problem solved .
( 5 ) Profit ! Install Firefox with Adblock , remove their administrative rights , set PCs to auto patch , your/their malware problems are solved .
When they need to install new software , I do it for them , it 's worth the hassle instead of constantly cleaning up viruses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I solved my tech support problems simply.
I told my family, if they wanted me to fix their problems, they had to agree to a few things:(1) I am admin on their machines.
(2) They are peons on their machines.
(3) ???
(4) Malware problem solved.
(5) Profit!Install Firefox with Adblock, remove their administrative rights, set PCs to auto patch, your/their malware problems are solved.
When they need to install new software, I do it for them, it's worth the hassle instead of constantly cleaning up viruses.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077816</id>
	<title>Re:Install Ubuntu</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258059420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For those installs where you can't install a secure OS. I knew a system admin whose duties included public computers in a college library. The library required the use of windows 98 due to the catalog software, and the lack of funds or man power to upgrade. After working there over a year and dealing with the computers one at a time when they would get misused, he made a script that reformatted and installed a fresh image every night. If there was a problem with a computer the librarian would just put a sign up for the rest of the day and remove sign the following morning.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For those installs where you ca n't install a secure OS .
I knew a system admin whose duties included public computers in a college library .
The library required the use of windows 98 due to the catalog software , and the lack of funds or man power to upgrade .
After working there over a year and dealing with the computers one at a time when they would get misused , he made a script that reformatted and installed a fresh image every night .
If there was a problem with a computer the librarian would just put a sign up for the rest of the day and remove sign the following morning .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For those installs where you can't install a secure OS.
I knew a system admin whose duties included public computers in a college library.
The library required the use of windows 98 due to the catalog software, and the lack of funds or man power to upgrade.
After working there over a year and dealing with the computers one at a time when they would get misused, he made a script that reformatted and installed a fresh image every night.
If there was a problem with a computer the librarian would just put a sign up for the rest of the day and remove sign the following morning.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074680</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30082626</id>
	<title>True and tested setup</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258039140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>-UBUNTU, or windoze with AVG and Superantispyware<br>-OPENDNS on the router and/or net interfaces with autoupdate client<br>-Strict rules on the opendns settings<br>-logmein free to keep an eye on things just in case</p><p>Done it with my hole family, spent one day on the setup for everybody (stayed one extra day after a family reunion)<br>Couldnt be happier, now I actually attend a family reunion and don't have to check on nobody's PC</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>-UBUNTU , or windoze with AVG and Superantispyware-OPENDNS on the router and/or net interfaces with autoupdate client-Strict rules on the opendns settings-logmein free to keep an eye on things just in caseDone it with my hole family , spent one day on the setup for everybody ( stayed one extra day after a family reunion ) Couldnt be happier , now I actually attend a family reunion and do n't have to check on nobody 's PC</tokentext>
<sentencetext>-UBUNTU, or windoze with AVG and Superantispyware-OPENDNS on the router and/or net interfaces with autoupdate client-Strict rules on the opendns settings-logmein free to keep an eye on things just in caseDone it with my hole family, spent one day on the setup for everybody (stayed one extra day after a family reunion)Couldnt be happier, now I actually attend a family reunion and don't have to check on nobody's PC</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076100</id>
	<title>Make them pay</title>
	<author>klahnako</author>
	<datestamp>1258053600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Say you can not fix it.  Fake it if you have to.  Once they have to pay a professional a few times, they will be more careful and password-protect thier machines from each other.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Say you can not fix it .
Fake it if you have to .
Once they have to pay a professional a few times , they will be more careful and password-protect thier machines from each other .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Say you can not fix it.
Fake it if you have to.
Once they have to pay a professional a few times, they will be more careful and password-protect thier machines from each other.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30078720</id>
	<title>captain obvious</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258019640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>does it really take that long to fix a problem?<br>I have found it quite quick and painless on dozens of occasions to just boot up to safe mode and run/install malwarebytes antimalware software (this software is free for non-commercial use) and running the program in quick scan works to eliminate even some of the worst malware on the computer (background change, force install of fake antivirus, fake computer scans, slow system) and can take less than a half hour of unattended running (full scan can take a couple of hours) and the software is easy enough that once demonstrated to a person they can usually run it in the future themselves.</p><p>also installing avg-free works great to stop a web browser from going to a harmful website while not slowing down the computer significantly like many other types of anti virus (avg is slow only for scans that can be set for late at night).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>does it really take that long to fix a problem ? I have found it quite quick and painless on dozens of occasions to just boot up to safe mode and run/install malwarebytes antimalware software ( this software is free for non-commercial use ) and running the program in quick scan works to eliminate even some of the worst malware on the computer ( background change , force install of fake antivirus , fake computer scans , slow system ) and can take less than a half hour of unattended running ( full scan can take a couple of hours ) and the software is easy enough that once demonstrated to a person they can usually run it in the future themselves.also installing avg-free works great to stop a web browser from going to a harmful website while not slowing down the computer significantly like many other types of anti virus ( avg is slow only for scans that can be set for late at night ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>does it really take that long to fix a problem?I have found it quite quick and painless on dozens of occasions to just boot up to safe mode and run/install malwarebytes antimalware software (this software is free for non-commercial use) and running the program in quick scan works to eliminate even some of the worst malware on the computer (background change, force install of fake antivirus, fake computer scans, slow system) and can take less than a half hour of unattended running (full scan can take a couple of hours) and the software is easy enough that once demonstrated to a person they can usually run it in the future themselves.also installing avg-free works great to stop a web browser from going to a harmful website while not slowing down the computer significantly like many other types of anti virus (avg is slow only for scans that can be set for late at night).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077150</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258057080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This.  In my circle of friends and family, the only that I still work to maintain are the Windows machines.  The Linux installs I've done don't need follow ups.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This .
In my circle of friends and family , the only that I still work to maintain are the Windows machines .
The Linux installs I 've done do n't need follow ups .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This.
In my circle of friends and family, the only that I still work to maintain are the Windows machines.
The Linux installs I've done don't need follow ups.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074684</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30077272</id>
	<title>Re:Correct User Access</title>
	<author>Rennt</author>
	<datestamp>1258057560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Firefox will install|run|update just fine using a limited account if you put it in "\Documents and Settings\User Directory\Firefox".</p><p>This little trick works for quite a bit of software actually</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Firefox will install | run | update just fine using a limited account if you put it in " \ Documents and Settings \ User Directory \ Firefox " .This little trick works for quite a bit of software actually</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Firefox will install|run|update just fine using a limited account if you put it in "\Documents and Settings\User Directory\Firefox".This little trick works for quite a bit of software actually</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075546</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30085122</id>
	<title>Luckily, Ubuntu comes with The Gimp preinstalled..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258114440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thanks, - Mines the coat with the rubber straps on the end of the arms...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thanks , - Mines the coat with the rubber straps on the end of the arms.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thanks, - Mines the coat with the rubber straps on the end of the arms...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075298</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075044</id>
	<title>Re:Give Up</title>
	<author>eln</author>
	<datestamp>1258050420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree.  Family tech support is a no-win situation.  I solved the problem by moving 1,000 miles away.  If that's not an option, you're left with either saying "no" or committing multiple homicides, whichever seems easiest.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree .
Family tech support is a no-win situation .
I solved the problem by moving 1,000 miles away .
If that 's not an option , you 're left with either saying " no " or committing multiple homicides , whichever seems easiest .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree.
Family tech support is a no-win situation.
I solved the problem by moving 1,000 miles away.
If that's not an option, you're left with either saying "no" or committing multiple homicides, whichever seems easiest.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074674</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076456</id>
	<title>Windows? What is Windows?</title>
	<author>davebarnes</author>
	<datestamp>1258054680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That is exactly what I did.<br>I switched back to the Mac.<br>All my friends started to slowly switch to the Mac. But, as Mac users, they never ask for help.<br>My father refuses to switch away from Windows 2000. I just tell him that I have not used Windows for 4.5 years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That is exactly what I did.I switched back to the Mac.All my friends started to slowly switch to the Mac .
But , as Mac users , they never ask for help.My father refuses to switch away from Windows 2000 .
I just tell him that I have not used Windows for 4.5 years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is exactly what I did.I switched back to the Mac.All my friends started to slowly switch to the Mac.
But, as Mac users, they never ask for help.My father refuses to switch away from Windows 2000.
I just tell him that I have not used Windows for 4.5 years.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075552</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076200</id>
	<title>Re:just install linux the next time you reformat</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258053960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I disagree. Strongly. I've installed Linux on several completely computer-illiterate relatives' computers and I used to get a tech support call once a week and always had to wipe malware of their systems whenever I visited but now, three years later, I can't even remember when I last needed to do any serious tech support. Your point about a need to install games or MS Office is moot since the family that DarkDevil needs to support, seems to be roughly the same as mine, which means that they couldn't install an application if their life depended on it. Furthermore, it doesn't seem to me that they're gamers either. Thus they should be perfectly fine with the standard offerings of most Linux distros but if 100 \% compatibility with complex office documents is needed, using wine (or crossover office) to run MS Office, is a perfect solution. However, I doubt that they have any need for documents that are complex enough to actually have compatibility issues so installing OpenOffice.org will also save them some money. Obviously, it's a good idea to set it to use<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.doc by default and not ask about it (I did that for my mother who as a language teacher constantly sends documents back and forth and hasn't had any problems whatsoever). Arguably, some games might not work with wine but I didn't get the impression that games are an issue in this case. Furthermore, in addition to easy administration remotely, if necessary, it's also easy to explain remotely exactly where to click to do what since when I have the same system myself I'm likely to remember it precisely. It has been quite nice to be able to explain to my father exactly how to e.g. change font size even when I've been far away from any computers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I disagree .
Strongly. I 've installed Linux on several completely computer-illiterate relatives ' computers and I used to get a tech support call once a week and always had to wipe malware of their systems whenever I visited but now , three years later , I ca n't even remember when I last needed to do any serious tech support .
Your point about a need to install games or MS Office is moot since the family that DarkDevil needs to support , seems to be roughly the same as mine , which means that they could n't install an application if their life depended on it .
Furthermore , it does n't seem to me that they 're gamers either .
Thus they should be perfectly fine with the standard offerings of most Linux distros but if 100 \ % compatibility with complex office documents is needed , using wine ( or crossover office ) to run MS Office , is a perfect solution .
However , I doubt that they have any need for documents that are complex enough to actually have compatibility issues so installing OpenOffice.org will also save them some money .
Obviously , it 's a good idea to set it to use .doc by default and not ask about it ( I did that for my mother who as a language teacher constantly sends documents back and forth and has n't had any problems whatsoever ) .
Arguably , some games might not work with wine but I did n't get the impression that games are an issue in this case .
Furthermore , in addition to easy administration remotely , if necessary , it 's also easy to explain remotely exactly where to click to do what since when I have the same system myself I 'm likely to remember it precisely .
It has been quite nice to be able to explain to my father exactly how to e.g .
change font size even when I 've been far away from any computers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I disagree.
Strongly. I've installed Linux on several completely computer-illiterate relatives' computers and I used to get a tech support call once a week and always had to wipe malware of their systems whenever I visited but now, three years later, I can't even remember when I last needed to do any serious tech support.
Your point about a need to install games or MS Office is moot since the family that DarkDevil needs to support, seems to be roughly the same as mine, which means that they couldn't install an application if their life depended on it.
Furthermore, it doesn't seem to me that they're gamers either.
Thus they should be perfectly fine with the standard offerings of most Linux distros but if 100 \% compatibility with complex office documents is needed, using wine (or crossover office) to run MS Office, is a perfect solution.
However, I doubt that they have any need for documents that are complex enough to actually have compatibility issues so installing OpenOffice.org will also save them some money.
Obviously, it's a good idea to set it to use .doc by default and not ask about it (I did that for my mother who as a language teacher constantly sends documents back and forth and hasn't had any problems whatsoever).
Arguably, some games might not work with wine but I didn't get the impression that games are an issue in this case.
Furthermore, in addition to easy administration remotely, if necessary, it's also easy to explain remotely exactly where to click to do what since when I have the same system myself I'm likely to remember it precisely.
It has been quite nice to be able to explain to my father exactly how to e.g.
change font size even when I've been far away from any computers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074886</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30088336</id>
	<title>GET A MAC ALREADY!!</title>
	<author>intheshelter</author>
	<datestamp>1258135380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had the same issues years ago.  I bought a Mac for a video company I was starting and found OS X was a better world.  So I instructed all the family I supported that any new computer they buy must be a Mac or I will no longer support them.  4 years later and I do maybe 3-4 couple of hours a year of "support", which consists only of installing a new program for them or explaining how to use something.  No malware, no reformatting, no scanning for this and that, no trying to figure out why the machine has slowed down to the point it is unusable, nothing.</p><p>You can either continue to support Windows crappy systems or you can learn from your mistakes.  Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.  The choice is yours.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had the same issues years ago .
I bought a Mac for a video company I was starting and found OS X was a better world .
So I instructed all the family I supported that any new computer they buy must be a Mac or I will no longer support them .
4 years later and I do maybe 3-4 couple of hours a year of " support " , which consists only of installing a new program for them or explaining how to use something .
No malware , no reformatting , no scanning for this and that , no trying to figure out why the machine has slowed down to the point it is unusable , nothing.You can either continue to support Windows crappy systems or you can learn from your mistakes .
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it .
The choice is yours .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had the same issues years ago.
I bought a Mac for a video company I was starting and found OS X was a better world.
So I instructed all the family I supported that any new computer they buy must be a Mac or I will no longer support them.
4 years later and I do maybe 3-4 couple of hours a year of "support", which consists only of installing a new program for them or explaining how to use something.
No malware, no reformatting, no scanning for this and that, no trying to figure out why the machine has slowed down to the point it is unusable, nothing.You can either continue to support Windows crappy systems or you can learn from your mistakes.
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
The choice is yours.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30083628</id>
	<title>The evening news</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258048860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Even local TV news has stories about cracked computers and virus problems.  I can understand the 9 year old, but the other people are never going to get it if they don't already get it, and showing them videos or whatever else is not going to make any difference.</p><p>In all seriousness, just install Macs, and don't let any of them have the admin password.  This worked great for my wife's family.  When we got married, I refused to become her family's tech support.  Instead, we set them up with a Mac, and did not let them have admin accounts.  I log in via VNC about once a year to perform updates.  Thing has been running with zero problems for over 6 years now... We have our next anniversary in Dec, and that will be 7 years of peace and freedom from 'family IT' since we dumped their Windows PC and got that Mac.  Best thing we ever did.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Even local TV news has stories about cracked computers and virus problems .
I can understand the 9 year old , but the other people are never going to get it if they do n't already get it , and showing them videos or whatever else is not going to make any difference.In all seriousness , just install Macs , and do n't let any of them have the admin password .
This worked great for my wife 's family .
When we got married , I refused to become her family 's tech support .
Instead , we set them up with a Mac , and did not let them have admin accounts .
I log in via VNC about once a year to perform updates .
Thing has been running with zero problems for over 6 years now... We have our next anniversary in Dec , and that will be 7 years of peace and freedom from 'family IT ' since we dumped their Windows PC and got that Mac .
Best thing we ever did .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even local TV news has stories about cracked computers and virus problems.
I can understand the 9 year old, but the other people are never going to get it if they don't already get it, and showing them videos or whatever else is not going to make any difference.In all seriousness, just install Macs, and don't let any of them have the admin password.
This worked great for my wife's family.
When we got married, I refused to become her family's tech support.
Instead, we set them up with a Mac, and did not let them have admin accounts.
I log in via VNC about once a year to perform updates.
Thing has been running with zero problems for over 6 years now... We have our next anniversary in Dec, and that will be 7 years of peace and freedom from 'family IT' since we dumped their Windows PC and got that Mac.
Best thing we ever did.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30076086</id>
	<title>Re:Buy them a Mac - with a caveat</title>
	<author>El Gigante de Justic</author>
	<datestamp>1258053540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One caveat I would add to this, although it might not be an issue as you're still in the same house.  If you're not a Mac user yourself, it can be difficult to help users find settings to make changes when you aren't there.</p><p>
&nbsp; My wife has a Mac notebook, and while we eventually got it working, I had problems helping her setup her wireless to a non-broadcasting router with encryption because Mac network settings are labelled differently and configured differently from Windows network settings.  I know I could have figured it out myself in person much more quickly, but it was much harder remotely than helping with Windows configuration would have been.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One caveat I would add to this , although it might not be an issue as you 're still in the same house .
If you 're not a Mac user yourself , it can be difficult to help users find settings to make changes when you are n't there .
  My wife has a Mac notebook , and while we eventually got it working , I had problems helping her setup her wireless to a non-broadcasting router with encryption because Mac network settings are labelled differently and configured differently from Windows network settings .
I know I could have figured it out myself in person much more quickly , but it was much harder remotely than helping with Windows configuration would have been .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One caveat I would add to this, although it might not be an issue as you're still in the same house.
If you're not a Mac user yourself, it can be difficult to help users find settings to make changes when you aren't there.
  My wife has a Mac notebook, and while we eventually got it working, I had problems helping her setup her wireless to a non-broadcasting router with encryption because Mac network settings are labelled differently and configured differently from Windows network settings.
I know I could have figured it out myself in person much more quickly, but it was much harder remotely than helping with Windows configuration would have been.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074696</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30075546</id>
	<title>Re:Correct User Access</title>
	<author>emm-tee</author>
	<datestamp>1258051800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I've found the best thing is to treat them like a corporation. Make sure their accounts are only user level, and either hold on to the Administrator password or make sure they know the real reason to use it. Done that with a few family friends I do work for and the amount of trouble i've had has dropped drastically.</p></div><p>Absolutely, I did this for my brother's machine, compared to my parents machine it's remained extremely tidy and worry free!</p><p>The only issue is Firefox updating.  On Windows XP, Firefox cannot update itself when running in a non-admin account. (<a href="https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show\_bug.cgi?id=407875" title="mozilla.org">Bugzilla:407875</a> [mozilla.org])  Probably means my brother is running a months-old Firefox..</p><p>Makes me wonder if Internet Explorer would actually be safer for him, at least it would get updated automatically.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've found the best thing is to treat them like a corporation .
Make sure their accounts are only user level , and either hold on to the Administrator password or make sure they know the real reason to use it .
Done that with a few family friends I do work for and the amount of trouble i 've had has dropped drastically.Absolutely , I did this for my brother 's machine , compared to my parents machine it 's remained extremely tidy and worry free ! The only issue is Firefox updating .
On Windows XP , Firefox can not update itself when running in a non-admin account .
( Bugzilla : 407875 [ mozilla.org ] ) Probably means my brother is running a months-old Firefox..Makes me wonder if Internet Explorer would actually be safer for him , at least it would get updated automatically .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've found the best thing is to treat them like a corporation.
Make sure their accounts are only user level, and either hold on to the Administrator password or make sure they know the real reason to use it.
Done that with a few family friends I do work for and the amount of trouble i've had has dropped drastically.Absolutely, I did this for my brother's machine, compared to my parents machine it's remained extremely tidy and worry free!The only issue is Firefox updating.
On Windows XP, Firefox cannot update itself when running in a non-admin account.
(Bugzilla:407875 [mozilla.org])  Probably means my brother is running a months-old Firefox..Makes me wonder if Internet Explorer would actually be safer for him, at least it would get updated automatically.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074914</id>
	<title>Re:Correct User Access</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258050120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Mod parent up; this is the only way to do this.  I give my family a basic user account, and then furthermore go through their registry and then deny all write permissions to the "Run" sections of the registry so nothing can install itself in their user account.  If absolutely necessary, give them an admin account to be used only for installing things (I gave it to my little brother and not my mom and this arrangement worked quite well).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mod parent up ; this is the only way to do this .
I give my family a basic user account , and then furthermore go through their registry and then deny all write permissions to the " Run " sections of the registry so nothing can install itself in their user account .
If absolutely necessary , give them an admin account to be used only for installing things ( I gave it to my little brother and not my mom and this arrangement worked quite well ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mod parent up; this is the only way to do this.
I give my family a basic user account, and then furthermore go through their registry and then deny all write permissions to the "Run" sections of the registry so nothing can install itself in their user account.
If absolutely necessary, give them an admin account to be used only for installing things (I gave it to my little brother and not my mom and this arrangement worked quite well).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_12_1633229.30074748</parent>
</comment>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_12_1633229_46</id>
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