<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_11_04_0053215</id>
	<title>Toyotas Suddenly Accelerate; Owners Up In Arms</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1257352260000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>cyclocommuter writes <i>"Some Toyota owners are up in arms as they suspect that <a href="http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=8980479">accidents have been caused by some kind of glitch</a> in the electronic computer system used in Toyotas that controls the throttle. Refusing to accept the explanation of Toyota and the federal government (it involves the driver's-side floor mat), hundreds of Toyota owners are in rebellion after a series of accidents caused by what they call 'runaway cars.' Four people have died."</i> The article notes: "The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has done six separate investigations of such acceleration surges in Toyotas since 2003 and found no defect in Toyota's electronics."</htmltext>
<tokenext>cyclocommuter writes " Some Toyota owners are up in arms as they suspect that accidents have been caused by some kind of glitch in the electronic computer system used in Toyotas that controls the throttle .
Refusing to accept the explanation of Toyota and the federal government ( it involves the driver 's-side floor mat ) , hundreds of Toyota owners are in rebellion after a series of accidents caused by what they call 'runaway cars .
' Four people have died .
" The article notes : " The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has done six separate investigations of such acceleration surges in Toyotas since 2003 and found no defect in Toyota 's electronics .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>cyclocommuter writes "Some Toyota owners are up in arms as they suspect that accidents have been caused by some kind of glitch in the electronic computer system used in Toyotas that controls the throttle.
Refusing to accept the explanation of Toyota and the federal government (it involves the driver's-side floor mat), hundreds of Toyota owners are in rebellion after a series of accidents caused by what they call 'runaway cars.
' Four people have died.
" The article notes: "The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has done six separate investigations of such acceleration surges in Toyotas since 2003 and found no defect in Toyota's electronics.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29975104</id>
	<title>similar problems</title>
	<author>MSG</author>
	<datestamp>1256980800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of other cars had similar problems.  I was on the freeway a couple of years ago in my 2005 VW Jetta.  The cruise control was still on, but was not active after I'd braked to slow down while passing through relatively denser traffic.  For no apparent reason, the car began accelerating as if the "resume" button had been pressed.  I didn't collide with any other drives, but it spooked me pretty good.  I still use the cruise control, but I always turn it off entirely as soon as I decide to slow down.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would n't be surprised if a lot of other cars had similar problems .
I was on the freeway a couple of years ago in my 2005 VW Jetta .
The cruise control was still on , but was not active after I 'd braked to slow down while passing through relatively denser traffic .
For no apparent reason , the car began accelerating as if the " resume " button had been pressed .
I did n't collide with any other drives , but it spooked me pretty good .
I still use the cruise control , but I always turn it off entirely as soon as I decide to slow down .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of other cars had similar problems.
I was on the freeway a couple of years ago in my 2005 VW Jetta.
The cruise control was still on, but was not active after I'd braked to slow down while passing through relatively denser traffic.
For no apparent reason, the car began accelerating as if the "resume" button had been pressed.
I didn't collide with any other drives, but it spooked me pretty good.
I still use the cruise control, but I always turn it off entirely as soon as I decide to slow down.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974540</id>
	<title>Re:Again?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257277380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Except that Toyota uses vacuum assist breaks, NOT hydraulic brakes.</p><p>And guess what - with the throttle FULL open, that vacuum is no where near as strong as it used to be.</p><p>So this could indeed be a combination failure of the engine electronics and brakes, at least partially a failure of design.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Except that Toyota uses vacuum assist breaks , NOT hydraulic brakes.And guess what - with the throttle FULL open , that vacuum is no where near as strong as it used to be.So this could indeed be a combination failure of the engine electronics and brakes , at least partially a failure of design .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except that Toyota uses vacuum assist breaks, NOT hydraulic brakes.And guess what - with the throttle FULL open, that vacuum is no where near as strong as it used to be.So this could indeed be a combination failure of the engine electronics and brakes, at least partially a failure of design.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973752</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973866</id>
	<title>Re:God damn it this again</title>
	<author>c.r.o.c.o</author>
	<datestamp>1257271920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm sure that someone somewhere is at this very moment pressing the acceleration pedal instead of the brake pedal, but your argument does not apply in this case. Then the problem should extend to all other vehicles manufactured in the world, but only Toyota has issued a floor mat recall.</p><p>So there are two explanations. Either the floor mat design is at fault, in which case Toyota is responsible and has corrected the issue (it's as simple as removing the winter floor mats from the vehicle and installing the summer ones). Very sloppy floor mat design though, because I've been driving with two sets of mats every winter since I got my license 10 years ago, and not once did the acceleration pedal get stuck to the floor. If I were the exception, the aftermarket mat manufacturers would have been sued out of existence by now.</p><p>The other explanation is that there MAY be something else wrong with the cars, and the cause is yet to be determined. One thing is certain though. If the floor mats are not at fault, more accidents will happen and  some of them will happen in cars where the recall will have already been performed. I just hope no other people will die as a result.</p><p>The only reason I can be so detached from this issue is because nobody in my family has drive-by-wire cars. I actually drive a standard car, so even if my throttle decides to go insane, all I have to do is clutch in and put it in neutral. The engine may bounce off the rev limiter, but the car won't be going anywhere.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm sure that someone somewhere is at this very moment pressing the acceleration pedal instead of the brake pedal , but your argument does not apply in this case .
Then the problem should extend to all other vehicles manufactured in the world , but only Toyota has issued a floor mat recall.So there are two explanations .
Either the floor mat design is at fault , in which case Toyota is responsible and has corrected the issue ( it 's as simple as removing the winter floor mats from the vehicle and installing the summer ones ) .
Very sloppy floor mat design though , because I 've been driving with two sets of mats every winter since I got my license 10 years ago , and not once did the acceleration pedal get stuck to the floor .
If I were the exception , the aftermarket mat manufacturers would have been sued out of existence by now.The other explanation is that there MAY be something else wrong with the cars , and the cause is yet to be determined .
One thing is certain though .
If the floor mats are not at fault , more accidents will happen and some of them will happen in cars where the recall will have already been performed .
I just hope no other people will die as a result.The only reason I can be so detached from this issue is because nobody in my family has drive-by-wire cars .
I actually drive a standard car , so even if my throttle decides to go insane , all I have to do is clutch in and put it in neutral .
The engine may bounce off the rev limiter , but the car wo n't be going anywhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm sure that someone somewhere is at this very moment pressing the acceleration pedal instead of the brake pedal, but your argument does not apply in this case.
Then the problem should extend to all other vehicles manufactured in the world, but only Toyota has issued a floor mat recall.So there are two explanations.
Either the floor mat design is at fault, in which case Toyota is responsible and has corrected the issue (it's as simple as removing the winter floor mats from the vehicle and installing the summer ones).
Very sloppy floor mat design though, because I've been driving with two sets of mats every winter since I got my license 10 years ago, and not once did the acceleration pedal get stuck to the floor.
If I were the exception, the aftermarket mat manufacturers would have been sued out of existence by now.The other explanation is that there MAY be something else wrong with the cars, and the cause is yet to be determined.
One thing is certain though.
If the floor mats are not at fault, more accidents will happen and  some of them will happen in cars where the recall will have already been performed.
I just hope no other people will die as a result.The only reason I can be so detached from this issue is because nobody in my family has drive-by-wire cars.
I actually drive a standard car, so even if my throttle decides to go insane, all I have to do is clutch in and put it in neutral.
The engine may bounce off the rev limiter, but the car won't be going anywhere.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973562</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974372</id>
	<title>Just like the Therac-25...</title>
	<author>Mr.Radar</author>
	<datestamp>1257275820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>... it's probably a race condition causing the problem.</htmltext>
<tokenext>... it 's probably a race condition causing the problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... it's probably a race condition causing the problem.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973562</id>
	<title>God damn it this again</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257270240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>God damn it, this again? All these "sudden acceleration" accidents are caused by morons "suddenly" putting their foot on the gas pedal. Afterwards, they say that the car accelerated by itself - and it's impossible to prove them wrong.</htmltext>
<tokenext>God damn it , this again ?
All these " sudden acceleration " accidents are caused by morons " suddenly " putting their foot on the gas pedal .
Afterwards , they say that the car accelerated by itself - and it 's impossible to prove them wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>God damn it, this again?
All these "sudden acceleration" accidents are caused by morons "suddenly" putting their foot on the gas pedal.
Afterwards, they say that the car accelerated by itself - and it's impossible to prove them wrong.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974780</id>
	<title>Re:problems with complexity</title>
	<author>eh2o</author>
	<datestamp>1257020640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From TFA:</p><p>"Alfred Katzenbach, the director of information technology management at Daimler, has reportedly said that the radio and navigation system in the current S-class Mercedes-Benz requires over 20 million lines of code alone and that the car contains nearly as many ECUs as the new Airbus A380"</p><p>The estimate of 100M includes items like the nav system which probably runs on windows mobile or some godawful thing...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From TFA : " Alfred Katzenbach , the director of information technology management at Daimler , has reportedly said that the radio and navigation system in the current S-class Mercedes-Benz requires over 20 million lines of code alone and that the car contains nearly as many ECUs as the new Airbus A380 " The estimate of 100M includes items like the nav system which probably runs on windows mobile or some godawful thing.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From TFA:"Alfred Katzenbach, the director of information technology management at Daimler, has reportedly said that the radio and navigation system in the current S-class Mercedes-Benz requires over 20 million lines of code alone and that the car contains nearly as many ECUs as the new Airbus A380"The estimate of 100M includes items like the nav system which probably runs on windows mobile or some godawful thing...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973982</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974396</id>
	<title>Re:Again?</title>
	<author>GrahamCox</author>
	<datestamp>1257276180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>Ok, repeat after me: there is no production car on the planet with an engine capable of suddenly overpowering simple hydraulic brakes.</i> <br> <br>

That's incorrect, as anyone who has done any motorsport or even driven hard will testify. Brakes work by converting kinetic energy into heat. They have a finite capacity (rate) at which they can do this. If the car has more energy than the brakes can dissipate, it will continue to move. In addition, the brakes also have a maximum working temperature at which point they cannot convert any more energy into heat - effectively they are saturated - this point is easily felt as a sudden loss of deceleration (aka "fade"). Different materials can help, which is why competition vehicles are invariably fitted with a different pad material, ventilate the discs (to increase the heat dissipation)  and maybe use ceramic discs and so on.<br> <br>

Ordinary cars compromise on having brakes which work and feel better from cold but often perform badly when used hot. They are usually rated for only two consecutive emergency stops from 60km/hr or so before they will become effectively non-functional. Frequent applications of the brakes on a twisty road will reach the same temperature quickly, so let's hope there isn't a child about to step out just around the next bend, eh?

And on the same topic, next time you drag your car down a long hill on the brakes (instead of changing to a lower gear), you're also in great danger of having no brakes available if you need to actually stop at the bottom. Every time I follow someone whose brake lights are permanently on all the way down a long hill, I want to scream.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ok , repeat after me : there is no production car on the planet with an engine capable of suddenly overpowering simple hydraulic brakes .
That 's incorrect , as anyone who has done any motorsport or even driven hard will testify .
Brakes work by converting kinetic energy into heat .
They have a finite capacity ( rate ) at which they can do this .
If the car has more energy than the brakes can dissipate , it will continue to move .
In addition , the brakes also have a maximum working temperature at which point they can not convert any more energy into heat - effectively they are saturated - this point is easily felt as a sudden loss of deceleration ( aka " fade " ) .
Different materials can help , which is why competition vehicles are invariably fitted with a different pad material , ventilate the discs ( to increase the heat dissipation ) and maybe use ceramic discs and so on .
Ordinary cars compromise on having brakes which work and feel better from cold but often perform badly when used hot .
They are usually rated for only two consecutive emergency stops from 60km/hr or so before they will become effectively non-functional .
Frequent applications of the brakes on a twisty road will reach the same temperature quickly , so let 's hope there is n't a child about to step out just around the next bend , eh ?
And on the same topic , next time you drag your car down a long hill on the brakes ( instead of changing to a lower gear ) , you 're also in great danger of having no brakes available if you need to actually stop at the bottom .
Every time I follow someone whose brake lights are permanently on all the way down a long hill , I want to scream .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ok, repeat after me: there is no production car on the planet with an engine capable of suddenly overpowering simple hydraulic brakes.
That's incorrect, as anyone who has done any motorsport or even driven hard will testify.
Brakes work by converting kinetic energy into heat.
They have a finite capacity (rate) at which they can do this.
If the car has more energy than the brakes can dissipate, it will continue to move.
In addition, the brakes also have a maximum working temperature at which point they cannot convert any more energy into heat - effectively they are saturated - this point is easily felt as a sudden loss of deceleration (aka "fade").
Different materials can help, which is why competition vehicles are invariably fitted with a different pad material, ventilate the discs (to increase the heat dissipation)  and maybe use ceramic discs and so on.
Ordinary cars compromise on having brakes which work and feel better from cold but often perform badly when used hot.
They are usually rated for only two consecutive emergency stops from 60km/hr or so before they will become effectively non-functional.
Frequent applications of the brakes on a twisty road will reach the same temperature quickly, so let's hope there isn't a child about to step out just around the next bend, eh?
And on the same topic, next time you drag your car down a long hill on the brakes (instead of changing to a lower gear), you're also in great danger of having no brakes available if you need to actually stop at the bottom.
Every time I follow someone whose brake lights are permanently on all the way down a long hill, I want to scream.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973752</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29976526</id>
	<title>User Error</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256995260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The classic line: "The harder I pushed on the brake, the faster it went".<br>Um, OK then. Try pushing on the brake pedal next time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The classic line : " The harder I pushed on the brake , the faster it went " .Um , OK then .
Try pushing on the brake pedal next time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The classic line: "The harder I pushed on the brake, the faster it went".Um, OK then.
Try pushing on the brake pedal next time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29975694</id>
	<title>Re:God damn it this again</title>
	<author>Waccoon</author>
	<datestamp>1256986380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Every car I've ever owned had the pedals attached to the console, not to a lever joint mounted on the floor.  The only exception I even know about are old Porsches and VWs.  The pedals are always suspended well above the floor and will never contact the floor mats, no matter how poorly the mats are designed or how far they are jammed up into the foot well.  If the mats are jammed up against the pedal joint, shouldn't that prevent acceleration by not allowing the pedal to be pushed?</p><p>I can visualize how a floor mat can end up overlapping the face of the accelerator, but not the physics to actually do it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Every car I 've ever owned had the pedals attached to the console , not to a lever joint mounted on the floor .
The only exception I even know about are old Porsches and VWs .
The pedals are always suspended well above the floor and will never contact the floor mats , no matter how poorly the mats are designed or how far they are jammed up into the foot well .
If the mats are jammed up against the pedal joint , should n't that prevent acceleration by not allowing the pedal to be pushed ? I can visualize how a floor mat can end up overlapping the face of the accelerator , but not the physics to actually do it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Every car I've ever owned had the pedals attached to the console, not to a lever joint mounted on the floor.
The only exception I even know about are old Porsches and VWs.
The pedals are always suspended well above the floor and will never contact the floor mats, no matter how poorly the mats are designed or how far they are jammed up into the foot well.
If the mats are jammed up against the pedal joint, shouldn't that prevent acceleration by not allowing the pedal to be pushed?I can visualize how a floor mat can end up overlapping the face of the accelerator, but not the physics to actually do it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974144</id>
	<title>Go to the ABC site - watch video</title>
	<author>ctmurray</author>
	<datestamp>1257273780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The ABC web site has a video from <a href="http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/RunawayToyotas" title="go.com">Consumer's Report</a> [go.com] on what to do in case of uncontrolled acceleration. They use a Toyota to demonstrate that pumping the brakes results in brake failure - so the brakes cannot always overcome the engine. The Toyota off button requires holding down for three seconds, which is not obvious (until this happened) even to Toyota owners. They recommend putting into neutral and braking to demonstrate that this does work the best. At then end they show a VW where the full on brake does override the full on accelerator, and this is where good programing could make the car "failsafe" (I know, not the correct term but cut me some slack).</htmltext>
<tokenext>The ABC web site has a video from Consumer 's Report [ go.com ] on what to do in case of uncontrolled acceleration .
They use a Toyota to demonstrate that pumping the brakes results in brake failure - so the brakes can not always overcome the engine .
The Toyota off button requires holding down for three seconds , which is not obvious ( until this happened ) even to Toyota owners .
They recommend putting into neutral and braking to demonstrate that this does work the best .
At then end they show a VW where the full on brake does override the full on accelerator , and this is where good programing could make the car " failsafe " ( I know , not the correct term but cut me some slack ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The ABC web site has a video from Consumer's Report [go.com] on what to do in case of uncontrolled acceleration.
They use a Toyota to demonstrate that pumping the brakes results in brake failure - so the brakes cannot always overcome the engine.
The Toyota off button requires holding down for three seconds, which is not obvious (until this happened) even to Toyota owners.
They recommend putting into neutral and braking to demonstrate that this does work the best.
At then end they show a VW where the full on brake does override the full on accelerator, and this is where good programing could make the car "failsafe" (I know, not the correct term but cut me some slack).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29977520</id>
	<title>ETC/DBW has many failsafes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257001800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've spent a fair amount of time disassembling several Denso electronic throttle ECUs used in Subarus and some Mitsubishis.  They use several throttle position sensors to make sure the throttle angle is what is called for.  When any of the sensors detect failure (i.e. they do not match one another, or they do not match requested angle), the car failsafes to about 6\% throttle, just a bit above idle, until the code is cleared (ECU reset, or a OBD2 tool is used to reset).  These are monitored in real time.  There is also an extra diagnosis step right when the car is started. These are embedded systems running real time code, the ones I've spent time on specifically are SH-2 RISC, running Hitachi's "vehicle operating system", then the vendor's own code (mishmash, unsure, I think mostly Denso's, but there is code based on each manufacturer's patents).</p><p>A software bug is always possible, but I have a hard time believing something like that would be the root cause due to the limited scope, validation, and closed nature of the code.  Electrical gremlins even less likely, because of the multiple circuits that monitor the throttle angle.</p><p>I suppose the actual accelerator pedal sensor could fail, I think there is only one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've spent a fair amount of time disassembling several Denso electronic throttle ECUs used in Subarus and some Mitsubishis .
They use several throttle position sensors to make sure the throttle angle is what is called for .
When any of the sensors detect failure ( i.e .
they do not match one another , or they do not match requested angle ) , the car failsafes to about 6 \ % throttle , just a bit above idle , until the code is cleared ( ECU reset , or a OBD2 tool is used to reset ) .
These are monitored in real time .
There is also an extra diagnosis step right when the car is started .
These are embedded systems running real time code , the ones I 've spent time on specifically are SH-2 RISC , running Hitachi 's " vehicle operating system " , then the vendor 's own code ( mishmash , unsure , I think mostly Denso 's , but there is code based on each manufacturer 's patents ) .A software bug is always possible , but I have a hard time believing something like that would be the root cause due to the limited scope , validation , and closed nature of the code .
Electrical gremlins even less likely , because of the multiple circuits that monitor the throttle angle.I suppose the actual accelerator pedal sensor could fail , I think there is only one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've spent a fair amount of time disassembling several Denso electronic throttle ECUs used in Subarus and some Mitsubishis.
They use several throttle position sensors to make sure the throttle angle is what is called for.
When any of the sensors detect failure (i.e.
they do not match one another, or they do not match requested angle), the car failsafes to about 6\% throttle, just a bit above idle, until the code is cleared (ECU reset, or a OBD2 tool is used to reset).
These are monitored in real time.
There is also an extra diagnosis step right when the car is started.
These are embedded systems running real time code, the ones I've spent time on specifically are SH-2 RISC, running Hitachi's "vehicle operating system", then the vendor's own code (mishmash, unsure, I think mostly Denso's, but there is code based on each manufacturer's patents).A software bug is always possible, but I have a hard time believing something like that would be the root cause due to the limited scope, validation, and closed nature of the code.
Electrical gremlins even less likely, because of the multiple circuits that monitor the throttle angle.I suppose the actual accelerator pedal sensor could fail, I think there is only one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974814</id>
	<title>Fight Club rule!</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1257020940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can't believe, that nobody mentioned the rule from Fight Club:</p><p><div class="quote"><p> <strong>Narrator:</strong> A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.<br><strong>Woman on plane:</strong> Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?<br><strong>Narrator:</strong> You wouldn't believe.<br><strong>Woman on plane:</strong> Which car company do you work for?<br><strong>Narrator:</strong> A major one.</p> </div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't believe , that nobody mentioned the rule from Fight Club : Narrator : A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph .
The rear differential locks up .
The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside .
Now , should we initiate a recall ?
Take the number of vehicles in the field , A , multiply by the probable rate of failure , B , multiply by the average out-of-court settlement , C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall , we do n't do one.Woman on plane : Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents ? Narrator : You would n't believe.Woman on plane : Which car company do you work for ? Narrator : A major one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't believe, that nobody mentioned the rule from Fight Club: Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph.
The rear differential locks up.
The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside.
Now, should we initiate a recall?
Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.Woman on plane: Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?Narrator: You wouldn't believe.Woman on plane: Which car company do you work for?Narrator: A major one. 
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973726</id>
	<title>Re:I have a 2002 Prius</title>
	<author>Sir\_Lewk</author>
	<datestamp>1257271080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The chip in my 2004 Honda Accord's automatic transmission fried about two years ago.  I was driving along, up a slight incline when all of a sudden my car dropped down into 3rd gear and would "surge" whenever it tried to shift into 4th.  I managed to get it home, and then to the shop the next day.  Apparently some chip just went haywire, they replaced it in about an hour for around $40.  I haven't had any issues since but I certainly don't trust the things very much anymore.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The chip in my 2004 Honda Accord 's automatic transmission fried about two years ago .
I was driving along , up a slight incline when all of a sudden my car dropped down into 3rd gear and would " surge " whenever it tried to shift into 4th .
I managed to get it home , and then to the shop the next day .
Apparently some chip just went haywire , they replaced it in about an hour for around $ 40 .
I have n't had any issues since but I certainly do n't trust the things very much anymore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The chip in my 2004 Honda Accord's automatic transmission fried about two years ago.
I was driving along, up a slight incline when all of a sudden my car dropped down into 3rd gear and would "surge" whenever it tried to shift into 4th.
I managed to get it home, and then to the shop the next day.
Apparently some chip just went haywire, they replaced it in about an hour for around $40.
I haven't had any issues since but I certainly don't trust the things very much anymore.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973564</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29977296</id>
	<title>Re:Driver error.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257000720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> MaWeiTao (908546) is correct. For anyone that was cognizant during Audi's "unintended acceleration" fiasco in the 80's this is deja vu all over again. Those cases were ALL proven to be driver error and, during the investigation, it was demonstrated that any of the cars involved could have been stopped with full application of the brakes, even if the throttle was stuck full on. I am sure that modern car's braking systems are even more capable. I quick application of the brakes (which should be instinctual) would have stopped these Toyotas.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>MaWeiTao ( 908546 ) is correct .
For anyone that was cognizant during Audi 's " unintended acceleration " fiasco in the 80 's this is deja vu all over again .
Those cases were ALL proven to be driver error and , during the investigation , it was demonstrated that any of the cars involved could have been stopped with full application of the brakes , even if the throttle was stuck full on .
I am sure that modern car 's braking systems are even more capable .
I quick application of the brakes ( which should be instinctual ) would have stopped these Toyotas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> MaWeiTao (908546) is correct.
For anyone that was cognizant during Audi's "unintended acceleration" fiasco in the 80's this is deja vu all over again.
Those cases were ALL proven to be driver error and, during the investigation, it was demonstrated that any of the cars involved could have been stopped with full application of the brakes, even if the throttle was stuck full on.
I am sure that modern car's braking systems are even more capable.
I quick application of the brakes (which should be instinctual) would have stopped these Toyotas.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973878</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29977544</id>
	<title>Re:Throttle Position Sensor</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257001920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My 1988 jeep does the same thing<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...  french ECU</p><p>The Idle air stepper motor gets stuck open. Cleaning the stepper motor and the throttle body fixes it, when the problem happens shutting the engine off and restaring it a few times clears the fault.</p><p>I have replaced the TPS but that did not seem to be the problem.</p><p>Most cars have one of these bypass valves to control idle speed even the so called non-drive by wire vehicles.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My 1988 jeep does the same thing ... french ECUThe Idle air stepper motor gets stuck open .
Cleaning the stepper motor and the throttle body fixes it , when the problem happens shutting the engine off and restaring it a few times clears the fault.I have replaced the TPS but that did not seem to be the problem.Most cars have one of these bypass valves to control idle speed even the so called non-drive by wire vehicles .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My 1988 jeep does the same thing ...  french ECUThe Idle air stepper motor gets stuck open.
Cleaning the stepper motor and the throttle body fixes it, when the problem happens shutting the engine off and restaring it a few times clears the fault.I have replaced the TPS but that did not seem to be the problem.Most cars have one of these bypass valves to control idle speed even the so called non-drive by wire vehicles.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974012</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29975350</id>
	<title>My Chysler PT Cruiser did this too</title>
	<author>OrangeTide</author>
	<datestamp>1256982840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But my problem wasn't a computer glitch, some part go jammed into the lever for the throttle and it was stuck at about 2/3rd down. Was really fun to park with the engine roaring and having to stand with my full weight on the break to have it just creep along. My problem wasn't internal to the car, flipping the throttle and pounding on it trying to get it "unstuck" didn't work for me. It was an issue of components inside the engine compartment, something I can't address myself without basically removing the entire engine (thanks Chrysler, the parts are cheap but the hours of labor to replace them really keeps my mechanic in business)</p><p>This is a common mechanical problem that has plague cars since the beginning, and people have been killed by throttles that have gone out of out control. I don't see any practical difference between one that has broken physically, like mine, and one that is the result of a computer glitch. Either way, it's an unacceptable situation with essentially the same outcome. A dangerously uncontrollable vehicle that needs to be repaired.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But my problem was n't a computer glitch , some part go jammed into the lever for the throttle and it was stuck at about 2/3rd down .
Was really fun to park with the engine roaring and having to stand with my full weight on the break to have it just creep along .
My problem was n't internal to the car , flipping the throttle and pounding on it trying to get it " unstuck " did n't work for me .
It was an issue of components inside the engine compartment , something I ca n't address myself without basically removing the entire engine ( thanks Chrysler , the parts are cheap but the hours of labor to replace them really keeps my mechanic in business ) This is a common mechanical problem that has plague cars since the beginning , and people have been killed by throttles that have gone out of out control .
I do n't see any practical difference between one that has broken physically , like mine , and one that is the result of a computer glitch .
Either way , it 's an unacceptable situation with essentially the same outcome .
A dangerously uncontrollable vehicle that needs to be repaired .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But my problem wasn't a computer glitch, some part go jammed into the lever for the throttle and it was stuck at about 2/3rd down.
Was really fun to park with the engine roaring and having to stand with my full weight on the break to have it just creep along.
My problem wasn't internal to the car, flipping the throttle and pounding on it trying to get it "unstuck" didn't work for me.
It was an issue of components inside the engine compartment, something I can't address myself without basically removing the entire engine (thanks Chrysler, the parts are cheap but the hours of labor to replace them really keeps my mechanic in business)This is a common mechanical problem that has plague cars since the beginning, and people have been killed by throttles that have gone out of out control.
I don't see any practical difference between one that has broken physically, like mine, and one that is the result of a computer glitch.
Either way, it's an unacceptable situation with essentially the same outcome.
A dangerously uncontrollable vehicle that needs to be repaired.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974436</id>
	<title>Up in arms?</title>
	<author>dakameleon</author>
	<datestamp>1257276420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One might suggest that if people are dying, you'd want to be more than up in arms, before people end up in trees.</p><p>(thanks, I'll be here all week)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One might suggest that if people are dying , you 'd want to be more than up in arms , before people end up in trees .
( thanks , I 'll be here all week )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One might suggest that if people are dying, you'd want to be more than up in arms, before people end up in trees.
(thanks, I'll be here all week)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29978212</id>
	<title>Re:God damn it this again</title>
	<author>GeckoAddict</author>
	<datestamp>1257004620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Try it: stand on the accelerator with your left foot for a while, then stand on the brake.  Push both down as hard as you can; your car will slow down and stop.  It won't be happy about it, but it will.</p> </div><p>And then you can take your car to the nearest shop for new brakes, rotors, and a handful of other things that could go horribly wrong during this 'experiment'.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Try it : stand on the accelerator with your left foot for a while , then stand on the brake .
Push both down as hard as you can ; your car will slow down and stop .
It wo n't be happy about it , but it will .
And then you can take your car to the nearest shop for new brakes , rotors , and a handful of other things that could go horribly wrong during this 'experiment' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try it: stand on the accelerator with your left foot for a while, then stand on the brake.
Push both down as hard as you can; your car will slow down and stop.
It won't be happy about it, but it will.
And then you can take your car to the nearest shop for new brakes, rotors, and a handful of other things that could go horribly wrong during this 'experiment'.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29975656</id>
	<title>Re:God damn it this again</title>
	<author>BikeHelmet</author>
	<datestamp>1256985960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There's no real way around the human factor in this. I've seen drivers who two-foot drive. I've seen drivers who, when they're presented with a scary situation, take their hands off the wheel and cover their eyes. I've been in the car when a driver's panic reaction was to flail madly at the pedals with her feet and see-saw the wheel---in that case, the car rolled. While the floor mats can create a problem, and while Toyota could fix it by mounting them a little bit higher, you'll never truly idiot-proof a car until the car drives itself.</p></div><p>I wonder what their reaction would be if they were in the situation I was in last summer?</p><p>I was driving along a two-lane road with no dividers, and then my hands started getting itchy. I looked down, and saw little green specs all over them. Green specs...hmm...I wonder what those are? No...noo!... it couldn't be hundreds of little green bugs crawling off my wheel and onto my hands/arms, could it!?</p><p>Well shit!!</p><p>I pulled over quickly, but safely, and then braked really hard. I got out of the damn car and pulled my shirt off, then swiped as many of those things off as I could. Was quite a sight I imagine, for anyone driving by.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's no real way around the human factor in this .
I 've seen drivers who two-foot drive .
I 've seen drivers who , when they 're presented with a scary situation , take their hands off the wheel and cover their eyes .
I 've been in the car when a driver 's panic reaction was to flail madly at the pedals with her feet and see-saw the wheel---in that case , the car rolled .
While the floor mats can create a problem , and while Toyota could fix it by mounting them a little bit higher , you 'll never truly idiot-proof a car until the car drives itself.I wonder what their reaction would be if they were in the situation I was in last summer ? I was driving along a two-lane road with no dividers , and then my hands started getting itchy .
I looked down , and saw little green specs all over them .
Green specs...hmm...I wonder what those are ?
No...noo ! ... it could n't be hundreds of little green bugs crawling off my wheel and onto my hands/arms , could it !
? Well shit !
! I pulled over quickly , but safely , and then braked really hard .
I got out of the damn car and pulled my shirt off , then swiped as many of those things off as I could .
Was quite a sight I imagine , for anyone driving by .
: P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's no real way around the human factor in this.
I've seen drivers who two-foot drive.
I've seen drivers who, when they're presented with a scary situation, take their hands off the wheel and cover their eyes.
I've been in the car when a driver's panic reaction was to flail madly at the pedals with her feet and see-saw the wheel---in that case, the car rolled.
While the floor mats can create a problem, and while Toyota could fix it by mounting them a little bit higher, you'll never truly idiot-proof a car until the car drives itself.I wonder what their reaction would be if they were in the situation I was in last summer?I was driving along a two-lane road with no dividers, and then my hands started getting itchy.
I looked down, and saw little green specs all over them.
Green specs...hmm...I wonder what those are?
No...noo!... it couldn't be hundreds of little green bugs crawling off my wheel and onto my hands/arms, could it!
?Well shit!
!I pulled over quickly, but safely, and then braked really hard.
I got out of the damn car and pulled my shirt off, then swiped as many of those things off as I could.
Was quite a sight I imagine, for anyone driving by.
:P
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973520</id>
	<title>Floor mat, really?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257269940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So Toyota says it's floor mat. But here's something I don't understand after reading TFA... all people who had that problem (and lived to tell the tale) insist that they were braking hard as the car was accelerating. If it were really just gas pedal stuck in a floor mat, then surely applying brake would force the car to decelerate regardless?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So Toyota says it 's floor mat .
But here 's something I do n't understand after reading TFA... all people who had that problem ( and lived to tell the tale ) insist that they were braking hard as the car was accelerating .
If it were really just gas pedal stuck in a floor mat , then surely applying brake would force the car to decelerate regardless ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So Toyota says it's floor mat.
But here's something I don't understand after reading TFA... all people who had that problem (and lived to tell the tale) insist that they were braking hard as the car was accelerating.
If it were really just gas pedal stuck in a floor mat, then surely applying brake would force the car to decelerate regardless?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.30010010</id>
	<title>Re:Driver error.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257503220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>there's no reason why the engine at full speed couldn't overpower the brakes, and if the throttle's controlled by computer it could quite plausibly bug up and start misbehaving.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>there 's no reason why the engine at full speed could n't overpower the brakes , and if the throttle 's controlled by computer it could quite plausibly bug up and start misbehaving .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>there's no reason why the engine at full speed couldn't overpower the brakes, and if the throttle's controlled by computer it could quite plausibly bug up and start misbehaving.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973878</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974354</id>
	<title>Check /var/log/syslog?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257275580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Shouldn't it be possible in these computer-run-cars to check the logs and see if the brakes were actually applied while the accelerator was slammed? Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I thought they logged that type of stuff, similar to an airplane's black box (but not as sophisticated, obviously).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Should n't it be possible in these computer-run-cars to check the logs and see if the brakes were actually applied while the accelerator was slammed ?
Perhaps I 'm mistaken , but I thought they logged that type of stuff , similar to an airplane 's black box ( but not as sophisticated , obviously ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Shouldn't it be possible in these computer-run-cars to check the logs and see if the brakes were actually applied while the accelerator was slammed?
Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I thought they logged that type of stuff, similar to an airplane's black box (but not as sophisticated, obviously).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29983396</id>
	<title>Re:First Hand Experience</title>
	<author>hacksoncode</author>
	<datestamp>1257020160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So did the car actually move with your foot pressed hard on the brake, or did it just surge?
<p>
Did you ever try pressing both at maximum force in that car? Was the engine actually capable of overpowering the brakes?
</p><p>
If it was, you had defective brakes. Not that uncommon. What would be extraordinarily uncommon is a throttle failure happening at the same time as a brake failure. Brakes that fail in such a way that the engine can overpower them are very obviously broken in normal use.
</p><p>
If it wasn't, then what's the point here? People are idiots. Even smart people are idiots when they panic (even just a little).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So did the car actually move with your foot pressed hard on the brake , or did it just surge ?
Did you ever try pressing both at maximum force in that car ?
Was the engine actually capable of overpowering the brakes ?
If it was , you had defective brakes .
Not that uncommon .
What would be extraordinarily uncommon is a throttle failure happening at the same time as a brake failure .
Brakes that fail in such a way that the engine can overpower them are very obviously broken in normal use .
If it was n't , then what 's the point here ?
People are idiots .
Even smart people are idiots when they panic ( even just a little ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So did the car actually move with your foot pressed hard on the brake, or did it just surge?
Did you ever try pressing both at maximum force in that car?
Was the engine actually capable of overpowering the brakes?
If it was, you had defective brakes.
Not that uncommon.
What would be extraordinarily uncommon is a throttle failure happening at the same time as a brake failure.
Brakes that fail in such a way that the engine can overpower them are very obviously broken in normal use.
If it wasn't, then what's the point here?
People are idiots.
Even smart people are idiots when they panic (even just a little).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973954</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974206</id>
	<title>Well, then!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257274320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hundreds of Toyota owners?! Well, then: if a percentage of the population of Toyota owners of North Dakota are upset, by all means, everyone who has ever owned a Toyota should raise their torch and/or pitchfork!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hundreds of Toyota owners ? !
Well , then : if a percentage of the population of Toyota owners of North Dakota are upset , by all means , everyone who has ever owned a Toyota should raise their torch and/or pitchfork !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hundreds of Toyota owners?!
Well, then: if a percentage of the population of Toyota owners of North Dakota are upset, by all means, everyone who has ever owned a Toyota should raise their torch and/or pitchfork!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974162</id>
	<title>Re:God damn it this again</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257273960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Using terms like 'all' proves you're an idiot.  I have personal experience with unintended accelleration (in this case in a Ford) there was no confusion about where the brake was, the floor mat was exacly where it should be and not affecting the pedal in any way, and yes, putting it in neutral stopped the accelleration, but there must have also been something wrong with the rev limiter because it also physically broke off the tachometer needle (it was hanging loose at the bottom of the gauge) and blew the head gasket.  Subsequently shutting it off caused it to lose power steering and braking and  it was difficult to pull over to the curb safely.  Vowed to never buy a Ford again.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Using terms like 'all ' proves you 're an idiot .
I have personal experience with unintended accelleration ( in this case in a Ford ) there was no confusion about where the brake was , the floor mat was exacly where it should be and not affecting the pedal in any way , and yes , putting it in neutral stopped the accelleration , but there must have also been something wrong with the rev limiter because it also physically broke off the tachometer needle ( it was hanging loose at the bottom of the gauge ) and blew the head gasket .
Subsequently shutting it off caused it to lose power steering and braking and it was difficult to pull over to the curb safely .
Vowed to never buy a Ford again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Using terms like 'all' proves you're an idiot.
I have personal experience with unintended accelleration (in this case in a Ford) there was no confusion about where the brake was, the floor mat was exacly where it should be and not affecting the pedal in any way, and yes, putting it in neutral stopped the accelleration, but there must have also been something wrong with the rev limiter because it also physically broke off the tachometer needle (it was hanging loose at the bottom of the gauge) and blew the head gasket.
Subsequently shutting it off caused it to lose power steering and braking and  it was difficult to pull over to the curb safely.
Vowed to never buy a Ford again.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973562</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973900</id>
	<title>Re:Brakes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257272040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sounds like a Darwin award candidate to me.</p><p>Took out his offspring as well, which is better than most.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds like a Darwin award candidate to me.Took out his offspring as well , which is better than most .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds like a Darwin award candidate to me.Took out his offspring as well, which is better than most.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973672</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29977798</id>
	<title>Re:First Hand Experience</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257003000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well, my first hand experience is that the all weather mats DO cause this problem.  Just because you had a different type of mechanical failure with a 10 year old Toyota doesn't mean that it is the same thing going on now.<br> <br>

I drive a 6 speed manual Tacoma with all weather mats.  The driver's mat always creeps up and is prone to get stuck of you floor the accelerator.  It freaked me out the first couple of times that it happened. Both times I had floored the accelerator and it got hung on the approximately 3/4 inch floor mat. When I shifted gears, the tachometer pegged out.  It sounded horrible.  I think that there is some sort of governor that shuts it off as soon as it redlines, but it comes back on immediately and if you are in neutral it revs right back up again.  It is very unsettling. It took me a second to figure out what happened, and I reached down an pulled the floor mat back.  This happened twice before I developed the habit of constantly checking the floor mat and repositioning it.  There seems to be a special hole in the carpet made for putting some sort of anchor for a floor mat, but the anchor was never actually implemented with those floor mats.  I like Toyota's products, but those mats are an epic fail. Until this news came out, I always assumed that this only affected the Tacoma, and perhaps only my configuration. Aside from that problem, the driver's mat has worn through in less than two years.<br> <br>

I can see a lot of users panicking and know knowing what to do.  If you have an automatic, it is just going to accelerate unless you drop into neutral or shut off the engine.  In my case, I caught the problem between gears and only had to worry about blowing the engine.<br> <br>

Not that there might not be other types of problems on Toyotas out there, but we can stop spreading the FUD that the floormat theory is a cover up for a more serious wide spread mechanical or electronic problem.  It is real and it is bad enough.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , my first hand experience is that the all weather mats DO cause this problem .
Just because you had a different type of mechanical failure with a 10 year old Toyota does n't mean that it is the same thing going on now .
I drive a 6 speed manual Tacoma with all weather mats .
The driver 's mat always creeps up and is prone to get stuck of you floor the accelerator .
It freaked me out the first couple of times that it happened .
Both times I had floored the accelerator and it got hung on the approximately 3/4 inch floor mat .
When I shifted gears , the tachometer pegged out .
It sounded horrible .
I think that there is some sort of governor that shuts it off as soon as it redlines , but it comes back on immediately and if you are in neutral it revs right back up again .
It is very unsettling .
It took me a second to figure out what happened , and I reached down an pulled the floor mat back .
This happened twice before I developed the habit of constantly checking the floor mat and repositioning it .
There seems to be a special hole in the carpet made for putting some sort of anchor for a floor mat , but the anchor was never actually implemented with those floor mats .
I like Toyota 's products , but those mats are an epic fail .
Until this news came out , I always assumed that this only affected the Tacoma , and perhaps only my configuration .
Aside from that problem , the driver 's mat has worn through in less than two years .
I can see a lot of users panicking and know knowing what to do .
If you have an automatic , it is just going to accelerate unless you drop into neutral or shut off the engine .
In my case , I caught the problem between gears and only had to worry about blowing the engine .
Not that there might not be other types of problems on Toyotas out there , but we can stop spreading the FUD that the floormat theory is a cover up for a more serious wide spread mechanical or electronic problem .
It is real and it is bad enough .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, my first hand experience is that the all weather mats DO cause this problem.
Just because you had a different type of mechanical failure with a 10 year old Toyota doesn't mean that it is the same thing going on now.
I drive a 6 speed manual Tacoma with all weather mats.
The driver's mat always creeps up and is prone to get stuck of you floor the accelerator.
It freaked me out the first couple of times that it happened.
Both times I had floored the accelerator and it got hung on the approximately 3/4 inch floor mat.
When I shifted gears, the tachometer pegged out.
It sounded horrible.
I think that there is some sort of governor that shuts it off as soon as it redlines, but it comes back on immediately and if you are in neutral it revs right back up again.
It is very unsettling.
It took me a second to figure out what happened, and I reached down an pulled the floor mat back.
This happened twice before I developed the habit of constantly checking the floor mat and repositioning it.
There seems to be a special hole in the carpet made for putting some sort of anchor for a floor mat, but the anchor was never actually implemented with those floor mats.
I like Toyota's products, but those mats are an epic fail.
Until this news came out, I always assumed that this only affected the Tacoma, and perhaps only my configuration.
Aside from that problem, the driver's mat has worn through in less than two years.
I can see a lot of users panicking and know knowing what to do.
If you have an automatic, it is just going to accelerate unless you drop into neutral or shut off the engine.
In my case, I caught the problem between gears and only had to worry about blowing the engine.
Not that there might not be other types of problems on Toyotas out there, but we can stop spreading the FUD that the floormat theory is a cover up for a more serious wide spread mechanical or electronic problem.
It is real and it is bad enough.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973954</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974378</id>
	<title>Not Gas!</title>
	<author>beej</author>
	<datestamp>1257275880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I honestly don't know what the deal is, here--I'm sure a complex software system like that has bugs.</p><p>That being said, I'm certain that a small percentage of the Toyota-driving population accidentally steps on the gas instead of the brake, when they are <i>100\% sure</i> they are stepping on the brake.  There are plenty of videos floating around of people in parking lots stomping on the gas at the last minute and plowing into cars or restaurants.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I honestly do n't know what the deal is , here--I 'm sure a complex software system like that has bugs.That being said , I 'm certain that a small percentage of the Toyota-driving population accidentally steps on the gas instead of the brake , when they are 100 \ % sure they are stepping on the brake .
There are plenty of videos floating around of people in parking lots stomping on the gas at the last minute and plowing into cars or restaurants .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I honestly don't know what the deal is, here--I'm sure a complex software system like that has bugs.That being said, I'm certain that a small percentage of the Toyota-driving population accidentally steps on the gas instead of the brake, when they are 100\% sure they are stepping on the brake.
There are plenty of videos floating around of people in parking lots stomping on the gas at the last minute and plowing into cars or restaurants.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29980708</id>
	<title>For my car, floor mats are definitely a problem</title>
	<author>Shane dot H</author>
	<datestamp>1257012540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I drive a current generation Tacoma with manual transmission, which is covered by the recall. <br> <br>
In my case, the floor mats really do get in the way of the pedals on a regular basis. I noticed it nearly immediately, but loved the truck enough to look the other way. Maybe it's because I drive a manual transmission that I notice it, but the mat OFTEN interferes with the pedals. I just sorta have to reach down and pull it out of the way from time to time.
<br> <br>
And I've noticed similar issues with other Toyotas/Lexuses that I've rented/borrowed. Now I'm not saying that these guys in TFA aren't right, but in my case the floormats are a sufficient explanation. Throw in a pushbutton start and an automatic transmission and I understand how accidents could happen.
<br> <br>
SteveWoz's concern about Toyota cruise controls - that's something I definitely started noticing in the early 90's. Some models are worse than others, but either way - the speed control is errative and unresponsive in most Toyotas I've driven.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I drive a current generation Tacoma with manual transmission , which is covered by the recall .
In my case , the floor mats really do get in the way of the pedals on a regular basis .
I noticed it nearly immediately , but loved the truck enough to look the other way .
Maybe it 's because I drive a manual transmission that I notice it , but the mat OFTEN interferes with the pedals .
I just sorta have to reach down and pull it out of the way from time to time .
And I 've noticed similar issues with other Toyotas/Lexuses that I 've rented/borrowed .
Now I 'm not saying that these guys in TFA are n't right , but in my case the floormats are a sufficient explanation .
Throw in a pushbutton start and an automatic transmission and I understand how accidents could happen .
SteveWoz 's concern about Toyota cruise controls - that 's something I definitely started noticing in the early 90 's .
Some models are worse than others , but either way - the speed control is errative and unresponsive in most Toyotas I 've driven .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I drive a current generation Tacoma with manual transmission, which is covered by the recall.
In my case, the floor mats really do get in the way of the pedals on a regular basis.
I noticed it nearly immediately, but loved the truck enough to look the other way.
Maybe it's because I drive a manual transmission that I notice it, but the mat OFTEN interferes with the pedals.
I just sorta have to reach down and pull it out of the way from time to time.
And I've noticed similar issues with other Toyotas/Lexuses that I've rented/borrowed.
Now I'm not saying that these guys in TFA aren't right, but in my case the floormats are a sufficient explanation.
Throw in a pushbutton start and an automatic transmission and I understand how accidents could happen.
SteveWoz's concern about Toyota cruise controls - that's something I definitely started noticing in the early 90's.
Some models are worse than others, but either way - the speed control is errative and unresponsive in most Toyotas I've driven.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973568</id>
	<title>Hello Audi?</title>
	<author>whoever57</author>
	<datestamp>1257270240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Perhaps Toyota should talk to Audi for advice on this problem?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps Toyota should talk to Audi for advice on this problem ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps Toyota should talk to Audi for advice on this problem?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29976540</id>
	<title>I don't get it.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256995380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't get it. Can somebody explain it to me using a computer analogy?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't get it .
Can somebody explain it to me using a computer analogy ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't get it.
Can somebody explain it to me using a computer analogy?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974706</id>
	<title>Re:First Hand Experience</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257019860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So what that it revved up high. You had the foot on the brake. Reboot the car and off you go. It could have been a single bit upset due to radiation, for all you know. There are enough cars out there that people will hit very, very "unlikely" events. Same goes for PCs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So what that it revved up high .
You had the foot on the brake .
Reboot the car and off you go .
It could have been a single bit upset due to radiation , for all you know .
There are enough cars out there that people will hit very , very " unlikely " events .
Same goes for PCs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So what that it revved up high.
You had the foot on the brake.
Reboot the car and off you go.
It could have been a single bit upset due to radiation, for all you know.
There are enough cars out there that people will hit very, very "unlikely" events.
Same goes for PCs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973954</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29982866</id>
	<title>Learn to drive</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257018720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So Toyota is the latest whipping boy...  While I don't doubt that it's possible for a cruise control system or throttle body control computer to get stuck/fail, or a floor mat getting in the way, 99.99\% of all these 'run away acceleration' incidents are driver error.  I was the owner of an Audi 5000 back in the 80's when Audi was getting the beating over this.  As it turns out people were pressing the accelerator instead of, or in addition to, the brake pedal because they were so close together (a design I really like in cars cause it allows easy heal-toe pedaling - something almost impossible to find now since the lawyers ravaged the auto industry over the design).</p><p>I had my own experience with a gentleman test driving my Audi when it came time to sell it.  He accelerated when approaching a stop sign instead of slowing... He thought it was the car "still warming up" or some such nonsense, but I happened to look at his feet at the time, and saw he was pressing both pedals (gas more than brake) instead of only the brake pedal.  Fortunately we didn't have an 'incident'.</p><p>Regardless, in all tests from all auto manufacturers that have been accused of this "unintended acceleration" thing... It doesn't matter what they do to cause a full open throttle (simulated failures, full accelerator pedal depression, etc) the cars can always be brought to a full and remarkably quick stop by applying full pressure to the brake pedal.  Sooooo, people, use the damn brakes!  Even if you accidently press the gas too, you can still stop by fully depressing the brake pedal!  Use both feet on the brake pedal if you have to!!  You can also throw 'er in neutral and pull the emergency brake should the worst coincidence occur - where you have an open throttle plus brake failure - what are the chances of that?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So Toyota is the latest whipping boy... While I do n't doubt that it 's possible for a cruise control system or throttle body control computer to get stuck/fail , or a floor mat getting in the way , 99.99 \ % of all these 'run away acceleration ' incidents are driver error .
I was the owner of an Audi 5000 back in the 80 's when Audi was getting the beating over this .
As it turns out people were pressing the accelerator instead of , or in addition to , the brake pedal because they were so close together ( a design I really like in cars cause it allows easy heal-toe pedaling - something almost impossible to find now since the lawyers ravaged the auto industry over the design ) .I had my own experience with a gentleman test driving my Audi when it came time to sell it .
He accelerated when approaching a stop sign instead of slowing... He thought it was the car " still warming up " or some such nonsense , but I happened to look at his feet at the time , and saw he was pressing both pedals ( gas more than brake ) instead of only the brake pedal .
Fortunately we did n't have an 'incident'.Regardless , in all tests from all auto manufacturers that have been accused of this " unintended acceleration " thing... It does n't matter what they do to cause a full open throttle ( simulated failures , full accelerator pedal depression , etc ) the cars can always be brought to a full and remarkably quick stop by applying full pressure to the brake pedal .
Sooooo , people , use the damn brakes !
Even if you accidently press the gas too , you can still stop by fully depressing the brake pedal !
Use both feet on the brake pedal if you have to ! !
You can also throw 'er in neutral and pull the emergency brake should the worst coincidence occur - where you have an open throttle plus brake failure - what are the chances of that ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So Toyota is the latest whipping boy...  While I don't doubt that it's possible for a cruise control system or throttle body control computer to get stuck/fail, or a floor mat getting in the way, 99.99\% of all these 'run away acceleration' incidents are driver error.
I was the owner of an Audi 5000 back in the 80's when Audi was getting the beating over this.
As it turns out people were pressing the accelerator instead of, or in addition to, the brake pedal because they were so close together (a design I really like in cars cause it allows easy heal-toe pedaling - something almost impossible to find now since the lawyers ravaged the auto industry over the design).I had my own experience with a gentleman test driving my Audi when it came time to sell it.
He accelerated when approaching a stop sign instead of slowing... He thought it was the car "still warming up" or some such nonsense, but I happened to look at his feet at the time, and saw he was pressing both pedals (gas more than brake) instead of only the brake pedal.
Fortunately we didn't have an 'incident'.Regardless, in all tests from all auto manufacturers that have been accused of this "unintended acceleration" thing... It doesn't matter what they do to cause a full open throttle (simulated failures, full accelerator pedal depression, etc) the cars can always be brought to a full and remarkably quick stop by applying full pressure to the brake pedal.
Sooooo, people, use the damn brakes!
Even if you accidently press the gas too, you can still stop by fully depressing the brake pedal!
Use both feet on the brake pedal if you have to!!
You can also throw 'er in neutral and pull the emergency brake should the worst coincidence occur - where you have an open throttle plus brake failure - what are the chances of that?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973910</id>
	<title>That's why cars had ignition keys.</title>
	<author>Deathlizard</author>
	<datestamp>1257272100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had this happen to me once on my 1988 Mercury Grand Marquis. The accelerator got stuck under the floor mat and the car took off. Know what I did? I Put it in neutral, Realized that was stupid (since the engine was redlining now) and turned the key to off. once I pulled over, I fixed the mat, started the car and went down the road.</p><p>These new cars, with no physical ignition cutoff is a bad thing. I swear to god the auto industry wants <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/\%C3\%89X-Driver" title="wikipedia.org">eX-Driver</a> [wikipedia.org] to happen, where we got teenagers running down freeways at breakneck speeds going after rogue cars with chaff guns because some idiot in R&amp;D was too stupid to put a big red EMERGENCY STOP Button in the cab of the rogue AI car.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had this happen to me once on my 1988 Mercury Grand Marquis .
The accelerator got stuck under the floor mat and the car took off .
Know what I did ?
I Put it in neutral , Realized that was stupid ( since the engine was redlining now ) and turned the key to off .
once I pulled over , I fixed the mat , started the car and went down the road.These new cars , with no physical ignition cutoff is a bad thing .
I swear to god the auto industry wants eX-Driver [ wikipedia.org ] to happen , where we got teenagers running down freeways at breakneck speeds going after rogue cars with chaff guns because some idiot in R&amp;D was too stupid to put a big red EMERGENCY STOP Button in the cab of the rogue AI car .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had this happen to me once on my 1988 Mercury Grand Marquis.
The accelerator got stuck under the floor mat and the car took off.
Know what I did?
I Put it in neutral, Realized that was stupid (since the engine was redlining now) and turned the key to off.
once I pulled over, I fixed the mat, started the car and went down the road.These new cars, with no physical ignition cutoff is a bad thing.
I swear to god the auto industry wants eX-Driver [wikipedia.org] to happen, where we got teenagers running down freeways at breakneck speeds going after rogue cars with chaff guns because some idiot in R&amp;D was too stupid to put a big red EMERGENCY STOP Button in the cab of the rogue AI car.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29986258</id>
	<title>Re:problems with complexity</title>
	<author>edschurr</author>
	<datestamp>1256985600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There is a video with physicist/programmer Brian Beckman talking about how it's harder to model a car than a plane in a video game. I'm not sure that's relevant here but you're comparing two different classes of vehicles. (It's an interesting video anyway.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>There is a video with physicist/programmer Brian Beckman talking about how it 's harder to model a car than a plane in a video game .
I 'm not sure that 's relevant here but you 're comparing two different classes of vehicles .
( It 's an interesting video anyway .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is a video with physicist/programmer Brian Beckman talking about how it's harder to model a car than a plane in a video game.
I'm not sure that's relevant here but you're comparing two different classes of vehicles.
(It's an interesting video anyway.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973576</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29976872</id>
	<title>Throttle Control Threading problem</title>
	<author>JBHarris</author>
	<datestamp>1256998380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There is obviously a race condition in the throttle system.<br> <br> <br>da-dum-dum-tsh.<br>Try the veal.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There is obviously a race condition in the throttle system .
da-dum-dum-tsh.Try the veal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is obviously a race condition in the throttle system.
da-dum-dum-tsh.Try the veal.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29983696</id>
	<title>Re:problems with complexity</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257021060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I call BS.  A Raptor is completely fly by wire, has multiple times more directional inputs and outputs, and you want to say that a passenger car, which has at least one order of magnitude simpler control complexity requires an order of magnitude MORE code?  You're likely to get your Slashdot credentials revoked with that kind of 'logic'.  Incidentally, the requirement for 'simple' controls is dramatically greater for a Raptor than for a car because of the degrees of freedom of movement, not to mention the thrust vectoring feedback mechanism.  Who moded this guy insightful?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I call BS .
A Raptor is completely fly by wire , has multiple times more directional inputs and outputs , and you want to say that a passenger car , which has at least one order of magnitude simpler control complexity requires an order of magnitude MORE code ?
You 're likely to get your Slashdot credentials revoked with that kind of 'logic' .
Incidentally , the requirement for 'simple ' controls is dramatically greater for a Raptor than for a car because of the degrees of freedom of movement , not to mention the thrust vectoring feedback mechanism .
Who moded this guy insightful ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I call BS.
A Raptor is completely fly by wire, has multiple times more directional inputs and outputs, and you want to say that a passenger car, which has at least one order of magnitude simpler control complexity requires an order of magnitude MORE code?
You're likely to get your Slashdot credentials revoked with that kind of 'logic'.
Incidentally, the requirement for 'simple' controls is dramatically greater for a Raptor than for a car because of the degrees of freedom of movement, not to mention the thrust vectoring feedback mechanism.
Who moded this guy insightful?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974700</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29975470</id>
	<title>KG</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256984160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This reminds me of the recent article in Wired Magizine about Autism being caused by Vaccinations.<br>Sure the overwhelming scientific/engineering evidence points to User Error,<br>but a collection of well intentioned, but unverifiable, personal stories keep it alive.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This reminds me of the recent article in Wired Magizine about Autism being caused by Vaccinations.Sure the overwhelming scientific/engineering evidence points to User Error,but a collection of well intentioned , but unverifiable , personal stories keep it alive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This reminds me of the recent article in Wired Magizine about Autism being caused by Vaccinations.Sure the overwhelming scientific/engineering evidence points to User Error,but a collection of well intentioned, but unverifiable, personal stories keep it alive.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29976902</id>
	<title>Foam O-rings and Pintos</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256998620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>These the same guys who initially said there was no problem with the Shuttle booster tank foam or the O-rings? That Pinto gas tanks were perfectly safe?</p><p>"Refusing to accept the explanation of Toyota and the federal government". I would hope people had enough sense not to trust them.</p><p>The Vendors and the government has a notoriously bad habit of publishing outright lies. If Toyota wants to clear this up, the need an impartial COMPETENT independent investigation. The government may be considered independent and sometimes semi-impartial, but is often greatly lacking in the competence department.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>These the same guys who initially said there was no problem with the Shuttle booster tank foam or the O-rings ?
That Pinto gas tanks were perfectly safe ?
" Refusing to accept the explanation of Toyota and the federal government " .
I would hope people had enough sense not to trust them.The Vendors and the government has a notoriously bad habit of publishing outright lies .
If Toyota wants to clear this up , the need an impartial COMPETENT independent investigation .
The government may be considered independent and sometimes semi-impartial , but is often greatly lacking in the competence department .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>These the same guys who initially said there was no problem with the Shuttle booster tank foam or the O-rings?
That Pinto gas tanks were perfectly safe?
"Refusing to accept the explanation of Toyota and the federal government".
I would hope people had enough sense not to trust them.The Vendors and the government has a notoriously bad habit of publishing outright lies.
If Toyota wants to clear this up, the need an impartial COMPETENT independent investigation.
The government may be considered independent and sometimes semi-impartial, but is often greatly lacking in the competence department.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973486</id>
	<title>Carmakers lie</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257269700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>BMW insists there's nothing wrong with their electronics even though every single one of their cars indicates 4-6 MPH over true speed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>BMW insists there 's nothing wrong with their electronics even though every single one of their cars indicates 4-6 MPH over true speed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>BMW insists there's nothing wrong with their electronics even though every single one of their cars indicates 4-6 MPH over true speed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974450</id>
	<title>Re:Again?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257276660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I tend to agree that most of the incidents can easily be chalked up to drivers fucking up and pressing the wrong petal going on to blame their mistake on the rain/vechicles.  That makes perfect sense.</p><p>However this does not mean real problems do not exist and all such reports deserve to be dismissed outright.  The ODB II freeze frame data actually does provide valuable insights into such cases someone with half a clue can correlate basic metrics to at least be able to deduce if the break was being applied even when break specific information is not available as part of the data!  ABS histories where available can reveal a hideous amount of information to someone clueful enough to look at the data and carefully interpret/reconstruct the incident.</p><p>I would focus on incidents that did not result in a crash where the driver was able to recover.  Preferably cases where the driver was<br>alone at the time.</p><p>If you troll around on the net there are reports of runaway cruise controls where the driver had to shutoff the engine to prevent their vechicle from accelerating out of control when their foot was not on either petal AND turning it off didn't stop the acceleration.</p><p>God knows my cruise control has an annoying habbit of messing up in the most specatuclar ways including unnecessarily redlining the fricking engine.  I have never experienced sudden acceleration but I know people who have.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I tend to agree that most of the incidents can easily be chalked up to drivers fucking up and pressing the wrong petal going on to blame their mistake on the rain/vechicles .
That makes perfect sense.However this does not mean real problems do not exist and all such reports deserve to be dismissed outright .
The ODB II freeze frame data actually does provide valuable insights into such cases someone with half a clue can correlate basic metrics to at least be able to deduce if the break was being applied even when break specific information is not available as part of the data !
ABS histories where available can reveal a hideous amount of information to someone clueful enough to look at the data and carefully interpret/reconstruct the incident.I would focus on incidents that did not result in a crash where the driver was able to recover .
Preferably cases where the driver wasalone at the time.If you troll around on the net there are reports of runaway cruise controls where the driver had to shutoff the engine to prevent their vechicle from accelerating out of control when their foot was not on either petal AND turning it off did n't stop the acceleration.God knows my cruise control has an annoying habbit of messing up in the most specatuclar ways including unnecessarily redlining the fricking engine .
I have never experienced sudden acceleration but I know people who have .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I tend to agree that most of the incidents can easily be chalked up to drivers fucking up and pressing the wrong petal going on to blame their mistake on the rain/vechicles.
That makes perfect sense.However this does not mean real problems do not exist and all such reports deserve to be dismissed outright.
The ODB II freeze frame data actually does provide valuable insights into such cases someone with half a clue can correlate basic metrics to at least be able to deduce if the break was being applied even when break specific information is not available as part of the data!
ABS histories where available can reveal a hideous amount of information to someone clueful enough to look at the data and carefully interpret/reconstruct the incident.I would focus on incidents that did not result in a crash where the driver was able to recover.
Preferably cases where the driver wasalone at the time.If you troll around on the net there are reports of runaway cruise controls where the driver had to shutoff the engine to prevent their vechicle from accelerating out of control when their foot was not on either petal AND turning it off didn't stop the acceleration.God knows my cruise control has an annoying habbit of messing up in the most specatuclar ways including unnecessarily redlining the fricking engine.
I have never experienced sudden acceleration but I know people who have.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973752</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974020</id>
	<title>there was in fact a recall</title>
	<author>osssmkatz</author>
	<datestamp>1257272820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>of the floor mats, which jam the accelerator in some instances. People who refuse to get them replaced are putting themselves and others in danger.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>of the floor mats , which jam the accelerator in some instances .
People who refuse to get them replaced are putting themselves and others in danger .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>of the floor mats, which jam the accelerator in some instances.
People who refuse to get them replaced are putting themselves and others in danger.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29978172</id>
	<title>Re:Driver error.</title>
	<author>chemical\_9</author>
	<datestamp>1257004500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm afraid your wrong. I guarantee you this is not a case of driver error, because I've seen the evidence, and I know someone this affected. My dad (who taught auto mechanics for 30 years) has had this happen to him twice now with his new '09 Toyota Tacoma. Both times he was backing out of the garage, and the truck suddenly lunged backwards, tires spinning away. Thankfully he was calm and collected enough to hit the brake and shift the car into neutral while the engine decided to its thing. If this just happened once, I might be inclined to think that it was driver error, but having the exact same thing happen twice pretty much rules that out in my head. On another note, my mom, who's never been the cause of an accident, recently ran into the side of a building with her '06 Toyota Avalon when it suddenly lunged forward while she was parking. Now, my mom's incident I'm not so sure if it was driver error or not, but it's suspicious all the same. In any case, there's nobody I'd rather have drive a vehicle I'm in than my dad, and I can assure you that this is much more than people being 'ignorant drivers'.</p><p>It really isn't that far fetched to think that there could be a bug in the software that drives the throttle. It could be something as simple as a division by zero. Obviously, something in the code is getting the wrong data that the coders didn't take into consideration.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm afraid your wrong .
I guarantee you this is not a case of driver error , because I 've seen the evidence , and I know someone this affected .
My dad ( who taught auto mechanics for 30 years ) has had this happen to him twice now with his new '09 Toyota Tacoma .
Both times he was backing out of the garage , and the truck suddenly lunged backwards , tires spinning away .
Thankfully he was calm and collected enough to hit the brake and shift the car into neutral while the engine decided to its thing .
If this just happened once , I might be inclined to think that it was driver error , but having the exact same thing happen twice pretty much rules that out in my head .
On another note , my mom , who 's never been the cause of an accident , recently ran into the side of a building with her '06 Toyota Avalon when it suddenly lunged forward while she was parking .
Now , my mom 's incident I 'm not so sure if it was driver error or not , but it 's suspicious all the same .
In any case , there 's nobody I 'd rather have drive a vehicle I 'm in than my dad , and I can assure you that this is much more than people being 'ignorant drivers'.It really is n't that far fetched to think that there could be a bug in the software that drives the throttle .
It could be something as simple as a division by zero .
Obviously , something in the code is getting the wrong data that the coders did n't take into consideration .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm afraid your wrong.
I guarantee you this is not a case of driver error, because I've seen the evidence, and I know someone this affected.
My dad (who taught auto mechanics for 30 years) has had this happen to him twice now with his new '09 Toyota Tacoma.
Both times he was backing out of the garage, and the truck suddenly lunged backwards, tires spinning away.
Thankfully he was calm and collected enough to hit the brake and shift the car into neutral while the engine decided to its thing.
If this just happened once, I might be inclined to think that it was driver error, but having the exact same thing happen twice pretty much rules that out in my head.
On another note, my mom, who's never been the cause of an accident, recently ran into the side of a building with her '06 Toyota Avalon when it suddenly lunged forward while she was parking.
Now, my mom's incident I'm not so sure if it was driver error or not, but it's suspicious all the same.
In any case, there's nobody I'd rather have drive a vehicle I'm in than my dad, and I can assure you that this is much more than people being 'ignorant drivers'.It really isn't that far fetched to think that there could be a bug in the software that drives the throttle.
It could be something as simple as a division by zero.
Obviously, something in the code is getting the wrong data that the coders didn't take into consideration.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973878</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29986754</id>
	<title>Re:First Hand Experience</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256987520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is no such thing as a subtle fault. Either there is faulting or there isn't one.</p><p>A very large chunk of expert people in different organizations (not only Toyota) are looking into it. Not one shred of evidence about what you're talking about.<br>Specialists are going where the facts lead them, and not you nor your alleged experience/profesional background means squat without evidence.</p><p>Another interesting fact: there is not ONE report of this event outside the U.S.<br>And just to be clear, I am not suggesting squat, THE EVIDENCE is suggesting it by itself.</p><p>Be careful with what and how you say things. No, I'm not new here. Yes, I know this is slashdot. I'm just doing my part taking missinformation fires down.</p><p>-Arc</p><p>http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-toyota-crash25-2009oct25,0,2288195.story</p><p>Associated Press, "U.S. finds no fault with accelerator: Toyota", Japan Times, November 4, 2009, p. 1.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is no such thing as a subtle fault .
Either there is faulting or there is n't one.A very large chunk of expert people in different organizations ( not only Toyota ) are looking into it .
Not one shred of evidence about what you 're talking about.Specialists are going where the facts lead them , and not you nor your alleged experience/profesional background means squat without evidence.Another interesting fact : there is not ONE report of this event outside the U.S.And just to be clear , I am not suggesting squat , THE EVIDENCE is suggesting it by itself.Be careful with what and how you say things .
No , I 'm not new here .
Yes , I know this is slashdot .
I 'm just doing my part taking missinformation fires down.-Archttp : //www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-toyota-crash25-2009oct25,0,2288195.storyAssociated Press , " U.S. finds no fault with accelerator : Toyota " , Japan Times , November 4 , 2009 , p. 1 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is no such thing as a subtle fault.
Either there is faulting or there isn't one.A very large chunk of expert people in different organizations (not only Toyota) are looking into it.
Not one shred of evidence about what you're talking about.Specialists are going where the facts lead them, and not you nor your alleged experience/profesional background means squat without evidence.Another interesting fact: there is not ONE report of this event outside the U.S.And just to be clear, I am not suggesting squat, THE EVIDENCE is suggesting it by itself.Be careful with what and how you say things.
No, I'm not new here.
Yes, I know this is slashdot.
I'm just doing my part taking missinformation fires down.-Archttp://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-toyota-crash25-2009oct25,0,2288195.storyAssociated Press, "U.S. finds no fault with accelerator: Toyota", Japan Times, November 4, 2009, p. 1.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973954</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973586</id>
	<title>This is why American cars are gaining</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257270300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>With American cars, the floormats are optional and come with a big price tag. This is a safety feature to prevent exactly this type of problem.</p><p>It's exactly like when Ashlee Simpson appeared on SNL and was caught lip syncing. She knew that she couldn't sing live, so she played her auto-tuned voice over the speakers. When the playback stopped and she was shown to be faking it, she danced a little jig. American car floormat pricing is like that little jig.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>With American cars , the floormats are optional and come with a big price tag .
This is a safety feature to prevent exactly this type of problem.It 's exactly like when Ashlee Simpson appeared on SNL and was caught lip syncing .
She knew that she could n't sing live , so she played her auto-tuned voice over the speakers .
When the playback stopped and she was shown to be faking it , she danced a little jig .
American car floormat pricing is like that little jig .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With American cars, the floormats are optional and come with a big price tag.
This is a safety feature to prevent exactly this type of problem.It's exactly like when Ashlee Simpson appeared on SNL and was caught lip syncing.
She knew that she couldn't sing live, so she played her auto-tuned voice over the speakers.
When the playback stopped and she was shown to be faking it, she danced a little jig.
American car floormat pricing is like that little jig.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973876</id>
	<title>Same thing happened with Audi 5000s</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257271920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60\_Minutes#Unintended\_acceleration</p><p>After a lot of controversy the final conclusion was user error.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60 \ _Minutes # Unintended \ _accelerationAfter a lot of controversy the final conclusion was user error .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60\_Minutes#Unintended\_accelerationAfter a lot of controversy the final conclusion was user error.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973502</id>
	<title>Put the damn thing in neutral!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257269760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have to say that the decline in manual transmission driving has really diminished people's driving abilities. It's one thing that the there's an acceleration issue. It's another thing to not consider putting the car in neutral when something like this is encountered.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have to say that the decline in manual transmission driving has really diminished people 's driving abilities .
It 's one thing that the there 's an acceleration issue .
It 's another thing to not consider putting the car in neutral when something like this is encountered .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have to say that the decline in manual transmission driving has really diminished people's driving abilities.
It's one thing that the there's an acceleration issue.
It's another thing to not consider putting the car in neutral when something like this is encountered.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29975278</id>
	<title>Such story are doubtful</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256982240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why would this happens only in the US market ? They don't do a software+hardware for the US, they do the same world wide, it would be costly to adapt the software. Now think about this : why such story never happen in Europe ? Here is an answer for you : last time this happened people were pushing the wrong pedal. And after various people checked this over in many accident, I betcha this is the same problem. People panicked and hit the wrong pedal.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why would this happens only in the US market ?
They do n't do a software + hardware for the US , they do the same world wide , it would be costly to adapt the software .
Now think about this : why such story never happen in Europe ?
Here is an answer for you : last time this happened people were pushing the wrong pedal .
And after various people checked this over in many accident , I betcha this is the same problem .
People panicked and hit the wrong pedal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why would this happens only in the US market ?
They don't do a software+hardware for the US, they do the same world wide, it would be costly to adapt the software.
Now think about this : why such story never happen in Europe ?
Here is an answer for you : last time this happened people were pushing the wrong pedal.
And after various people checked this over in many accident, I betcha this is the same problem.
People panicked and hit the wrong pedal.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29975964</id>
	<title>No glitch. Something must be breaking.</title>
	<author>v(*\_*)vvvv</author>
	<datestamp>1256989320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Cars are tested an insane amount before they are put on our roads. The easiest part of a car to test is its software. We aren't talking about a CGI script by a teenager here. And software doesn't erode or malfunction or break. If it has bugs, it always has them, and they will be there from the beginning, meaning they will be found.</p><p>If there is some real glitch, it would have to be mechanical or in the wiring. Like a switch not getting flipped, or some sensor going wack.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Cars are tested an insane amount before they are put on our roads .
The easiest part of a car to test is its software .
We are n't talking about a CGI script by a teenager here .
And software does n't erode or malfunction or break .
If it has bugs , it always has them , and they will be there from the beginning , meaning they will be found.If there is some real glitch , it would have to be mechanical or in the wiring .
Like a switch not getting flipped , or some sensor going wack .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cars are tested an insane amount before they are put on our roads.
The easiest part of a car to test is its software.
We aren't talking about a CGI script by a teenager here.
And software doesn't erode or malfunction or break.
If it has bugs, it always has them, and they will be there from the beginning, meaning they will be found.If there is some real glitch, it would have to be mechanical or in the wiring.
Like a switch not getting flipped, or some sensor going wack.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29975124</id>
	<title>Re:God damn it this again</title>
	<author>lannocc</author>
	<datestamp>1256980920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There's no car you can buy today where you cannot overpower the engine with full braking force.  Try it: <b>stand on the <em>accelerator</em> with your <em>left</em> foot</b> for a while, then stand on the brake.  Push both down as hard as you can; your car will slow down and stop.</p></div><p>Of course, you can't see where you're going since you happen to be turned around in your seat!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's no car you can buy today where you can not overpower the engine with full braking force .
Try it : stand on the accelerator with your left foot for a while , then stand on the brake .
Push both down as hard as you can ; your car will slow down and stop.Of course , you ca n't see where you 're going since you happen to be turned around in your seat !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's no car you can buy today where you cannot overpower the engine with full braking force.
Try it: stand on the accelerator with your left foot for a while, then stand on the brake.
Push both down as hard as you can; your car will slow down and stop.Of course, you can't see where you're going since you happen to be turned around in your seat!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974130</id>
	<title>Re:Again?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257273600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the brake fluid boils before the vehicle stops, the engine will win.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the brake fluid boils before the vehicle stops , the engine will win .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the brake fluid boils before the vehicle stops, the engine will win.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973752</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29975690</id>
	<title>Up in arms?</title>
	<author>Slashcrap</author>
	<datestamp>1256986380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If your car suddenly accelerates I would have thought you'd be better off keeping your hands firmly on the wheel.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If your car suddenly accelerates I would have thought you 'd be better off keeping your hands firmly on the wheel .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If your car suddenly accelerates I would have thought you'd be better off keeping your hands firmly on the wheel.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974494</id>
	<title>Re:Again?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257276960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>See the above comment. These brakes aren't the "simple hydraulic brakes" you're thinking of.</p><p><a href="http://spectrum.ieee.org/blog/computing/it/riskfactor/how-hard-should-it-be-to-stop-a-runaway-car" title="ieee.org" rel="nofollow">http://spectrum.ieee.org/blog/computing/it/riskfactor/how-hard-should-it-be-to-stop-a-runaway-car</a> [ieee.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>See the above comment .
These brakes are n't the " simple hydraulic brakes " you 're thinking of.http : //spectrum.ieee.org/blog/computing/it/riskfactor/how-hard-should-it-be-to-stop-a-runaway-car [ ieee.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>See the above comment.
These brakes aren't the "simple hydraulic brakes" you're thinking of.http://spectrum.ieee.org/blog/computing/it/riskfactor/how-hard-should-it-be-to-stop-a-runaway-car [ieee.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973752</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29984862</id>
	<title>Re:problems with complexity</title>
	<author>Hatta</author>
	<datestamp>1256981520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It wasn't too long ago when we had cars running on 0 lines of code.  Why do we need millions now?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It was n't too long ago when we had cars running on 0 lines of code .
Why do we need millions now ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It wasn't too long ago when we had cars running on 0 lines of code.
Why do we need millions now?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974700</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29976008</id>
	<title>Re:First Hand Experience</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256989620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Did you have the air conditioning on?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did you have the air conditioning on ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did you have the air conditioning on?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973954</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973490</id>
	<title>PEBAAC</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257269700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Problem exists between accelerator and chair?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Problem exists between accelerator and chair ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Problem exists between accelerator and chair?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974140</id>
	<title>Re:God damn it this again</title>
	<author>Orgasmatron</author>
	<datestamp>1257273720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't imagine that Toyota believes the floor mat thing.</p><p>Back in the 80s, a kid got crushed to death between the family Audi and the back wall of the garage.  His mom was pushing so hard on the "brakes" trying to stop it that she bent the gas pedal out of shape.</p><p>Now, Audi has to say something.  Option A is "You killed your own son.  If you have more kids and find yourself in a similar situation in the future, take your foot off the gas, shift out of drive, or turn the key off."  Option B is "The floor mat must have gotten wedged in there.  Freak accident, could have happened to anyone."</p><p>So, just because they say floor mats doesn't mean they really think it was floor mats.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't imagine that Toyota believes the floor mat thing.Back in the 80s , a kid got crushed to death between the family Audi and the back wall of the garage .
His mom was pushing so hard on the " brakes " trying to stop it that she bent the gas pedal out of shape.Now , Audi has to say something .
Option A is " You killed your own son .
If you have more kids and find yourself in a similar situation in the future , take your foot off the gas , shift out of drive , or turn the key off .
" Option B is " The floor mat must have gotten wedged in there .
Freak accident , could have happened to anyone .
" So , just because they say floor mats does n't mean they really think it was floor mats .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't imagine that Toyota believes the floor mat thing.Back in the 80s, a kid got crushed to death between the family Audi and the back wall of the garage.
His mom was pushing so hard on the "brakes" trying to stop it that she bent the gas pedal out of shape.Now, Audi has to say something.
Option A is "You killed your own son.
If you have more kids and find yourself in a similar situation in the future, take your foot off the gas, shift out of drive, or turn the key off.
"  Option B is "The floor mat must have gotten wedged in there.
Freak accident, could have happened to anyone.
"So, just because they say floor mats doesn't mean they really think it was floor mats.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973866</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973996</id>
	<title>Hasn't this been covered before?</title>
	<author>bongey</author>
	<datestamp>1257272640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Audi almost went bankrupt when 60 minutes investigated Audi's accelerating out of control. <a href="http://www.automobile.com/audi-investigated-for-unintended-acceleration.html" title="automobile.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.automobile.com/audi-investigated-for-unintended-acceleration.html</a> [automobile.com] <br>
In the end it was all just a fairytale. </p><p>
From working on cars , drag racing and that I work on autonomous car that needs an remote emergency stop. I find that the drivers couldn't stop the vehicle as a problem with the driver. Sorry for there loses but they should have payed attention in drivers education. I remember the old videos from the 70/80s where they went over if your throttle gets stuck what you should do. IMPO was more likely on older cars with a manual throttle cable would be come stuck or go out of control. The throttle in my Saturn has become stuck due to moisture in the throttle cable, along with cold temperatures; one time on the highway , one time coming out of the subdivision and I didn't go flying off a cliff. </p><p>
Fun facts for people that forgot drivers education. <br>
1) A fully depressed brake will stop the car even if the throttle is stuck.Unless your brakes fail also , or you have 500 lbs of torque, but I don't see Prius putting up those numbers. <br>
2) Kill the ignition. No ignition the engine stops quick. In fact your engine stops quicker if there is more fuel in the engine. In older cars with a carburetor when the car would "diesel" continue to run after the ignition is cut, flooring the gas instantly kills the engine. <br>
3) Put it in neutral. Nothing to explain there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Audi almost went bankrupt when 60 minutes investigated Audi 's accelerating out of control .
http : //www.automobile.com/audi-investigated-for-unintended-acceleration.html [ automobile.com ] In the end it was all just a fairytale .
From working on cars , drag racing and that I work on autonomous car that needs an remote emergency stop .
I find that the drivers could n't stop the vehicle as a problem with the driver .
Sorry for there loses but they should have payed attention in drivers education .
I remember the old videos from the 70/80s where they went over if your throttle gets stuck what you should do .
IMPO was more likely on older cars with a manual throttle cable would be come stuck or go out of control .
The throttle in my Saturn has become stuck due to moisture in the throttle cable , along with cold temperatures ; one time on the highway , one time coming out of the subdivision and I did n't go flying off a cliff .
Fun facts for people that forgot drivers education .
1 ) A fully depressed brake will stop the car even if the throttle is stuck.Unless your brakes fail also , or you have 500 lbs of torque , but I do n't see Prius putting up those numbers .
2 ) Kill the ignition .
No ignition the engine stops quick .
In fact your engine stops quicker if there is more fuel in the engine .
In older cars with a carburetor when the car would " diesel " continue to run after the ignition is cut , flooring the gas instantly kills the engine .
3 ) Put it in neutral .
Nothing to explain there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Audi almost went bankrupt when 60 minutes investigated Audi's accelerating out of control.
http://www.automobile.com/audi-investigated-for-unintended-acceleration.html [automobile.com] 
In the end it was all just a fairytale.
From working on cars , drag racing and that I work on autonomous car that needs an remote emergency stop.
I find that the drivers couldn't stop the vehicle as a problem with the driver.
Sorry for there loses but they should have payed attention in drivers education.
I remember the old videos from the 70/80s where they went over if your throttle gets stuck what you should do.
IMPO was more likely on older cars with a manual throttle cable would be come stuck or go out of control.
The throttle in my Saturn has become stuck due to moisture in the throttle cable, along with cold temperatures; one time on the highway , one time coming out of the subdivision and I didn't go flying off a cliff.
Fun facts for people that forgot drivers education.
1) A fully depressed brake will stop the car even if the throttle is stuck.Unless your brakes fail also , or you have 500 lbs of torque, but I don't see Prius putting up those numbers.
2) Kill the ignition.
No ignition the engine stops quick.
In fact your engine stops quicker if there is more fuel in the engine.
In older cars with a carburetor when the car would "diesel" continue to run after the ignition is cut, flooring the gas instantly kills the engine.
3) Put it in neutral.
Nothing to explain there.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29980354</id>
	<title>Has time to call 911 on cell phone, but ?</title>
	<author>puddles</author>
	<datestamp>1257011400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But no time (or presence of mind) to push the selector into neutral?  How about turning the ignition off?  What?</p><p>The stupid, it burns!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But no time ( or presence of mind ) to push the selector into neutral ?
How about turning the ignition off ?
What ? The stupid , it burns !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But no time (or presence of mind) to push the selector into neutral?
How about turning the ignition off?
What?The stupid, it burns!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29980570</id>
	<title>Overheated brakes don't</title>
	<author>enbody</author>
	<datestamp>1257012060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One point missed on all posts is that overheated brakes don't work.  If brake operation allows them to heat up too much before enough stopping occurs, you will get to complete failure.  I can see it possible to be racing down the road, get the brakes heated, and then fail to generate enough braking to stop the vehicle.</p><p>Having said that, I'm on the side of "user error" in these cases.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One point missed on all posts is that overheated brakes do n't work .
If brake operation allows them to heat up too much before enough stopping occurs , you will get to complete failure .
I can see it possible to be racing down the road , get the brakes heated , and then fail to generate enough braking to stop the vehicle.Having said that , I 'm on the side of " user error " in these cases .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One point missed on all posts is that overheated brakes don't work.
If brake operation allows them to heat up too much before enough stopping occurs, you will get to complete failure.
I can see it possible to be racing down the road, get the brakes heated, and then fail to generate enough braking to stop the vehicle.Having said that, I'm on the side of "user error" in these cases.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29976398</id>
	<title>You know less than you think you do</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256993940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>And even if the accelerator is drive-by-wire the brakes are not and will likely never be. </p></div><p>An old Air Force paper <a href="http://www.ml.afrl.af.mil/publications/factsheets/Brake\_by\_Wie.pdf" title="af.mil" rel="nofollow">http://www.ml.afrl.af.mil/publications/factsheets/Brake\_by\_Wie.pdf</a> [af.mil] references an agreement with Delphi Automotive Systems to bring brake-by-wire to the US auto industry.</p><p>According to a market forecast published by Tier One in 2001, "brake-by-wire installations were predicted to jump from zero in 2002 to over 19\% by 2010. The most likely applications were assumed to be luxury vehicles, performance cars and hybrid vehicles (combined with regenerative braking systems)."  Gosh, that sure sounds like the vehicle classes folks are complaining have the problem...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And even if the accelerator is drive-by-wire the brakes are not and will likely never be .
An old Air Force paper http : //www.ml.afrl.af.mil/publications/factsheets/Brake \ _by \ _Wie.pdf [ af.mil ] references an agreement with Delphi Automotive Systems to bring brake-by-wire to the US auto industry.According to a market forecast published by Tier One in 2001 , " brake-by-wire installations were predicted to jump from zero in 2002 to over 19 \ % by 2010 .
The most likely applications were assumed to be luxury vehicles , performance cars and hybrid vehicles ( combined with regenerative braking systems ) .
" Gosh , that sure sounds like the vehicle classes folks are complaining have the problem.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And even if the accelerator is drive-by-wire the brakes are not and will likely never be.
An old Air Force paper http://www.ml.afrl.af.mil/publications/factsheets/Brake\_by\_Wie.pdf [af.mil] references an agreement with Delphi Automotive Systems to bring brake-by-wire to the US auto industry.According to a market forecast published by Tier One in 2001, "brake-by-wire installations were predicted to jump from zero in 2002 to over 19\% by 2010.
The most likely applications were assumed to be luxury vehicles, performance cars and hybrid vehicles (combined with regenerative braking systems).
"  Gosh, that sure sounds like the vehicle classes folks are complaining have the problem...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973878</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29977154</id>
	<title>Re:First Hand Experience</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1257000060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>So what that it revved up high. You had the foot on the brake. Reboot the car and off you go. It could have been a single bit upset due to radiation, for all you know.</p></div><p>No, it could not, because even the pathetic 8-bit MCU in my 1989 Nissan 240SX ran at 3MHz and it takes less than a million cycles for EVERYTHING to happen. Even the O2 sensor is checked more than four times a second. You are talking pure shit.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>So what that it revved up high .
You had the foot on the brake .
Reboot the car and off you go .
It could have been a single bit upset due to radiation , for all you know.No , it could not , because even the pathetic 8-bit MCU in my 1989 Nissan 240SX ran at 3MHz and it takes less than a million cycles for EVERYTHING to happen .
Even the O2 sensor is checked more than four times a second .
You are talking pure shit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So what that it revved up high.
You had the foot on the brake.
Reboot the car and off you go.
It could have been a single bit upset due to radiation, for all you know.No, it could not, because even the pathetic 8-bit MCU in my 1989 Nissan 240SX ran at 3MHz and it takes less than a million cycles for EVERYTHING to happen.
Even the O2 sensor is checked more than four times a second.
You are talking pure shit.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974706</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29977680</id>
	<title>Turning off a Toyota with Smart key.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257002520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>  Some one mentioned their 2010 prius with the smart key and being unable to turn off the ignition while driving.  This is not true.  If you actually read your owners manual you would see that if while driving, you put the foot on the break, and hold the power switch down for 5 seconds, the ignition in your smart key vehicle will cut ignition.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some one mentioned their 2010 prius with the smart key and being unable to turn off the ignition while driving .
This is not true .
If you actually read your owners manual you would see that if while driving , you put the foot on the break , and hold the power switch down for 5 seconds , the ignition in your smart key vehicle will cut ignition .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>  Some one mentioned their 2010 prius with the smart key and being unable to turn off the ignition while driving.
This is not true.
If you actually read your owners manual you would see that if while driving, you put the foot on the break, and hold the power switch down for 5 seconds, the ignition in your smart key vehicle will cut ignition.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29975006</id>
	<title>Black Box ?</title>
	<author>DavidD\_CA</author>
	<datestamp>1256979840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I admit I know nothing about cars, let alone their computer systems.</p><p>But I always thought that modern cars had some kind of primitive "black box" type feature that would record things like acceleration, breaking, speed... I dunno what else, and tie that into the air bag deployment.</p><p>I have no idea WHY I assume this, but it's always been floating around in my mind.</p><p>Can anyone confirm or set me straight on this?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I admit I know nothing about cars , let alone their computer systems.But I always thought that modern cars had some kind of primitive " black box " type feature that would record things like acceleration , breaking , speed... I dunno what else , and tie that into the air bag deployment.I have no idea WHY I assume this , but it 's always been floating around in my mind.Can anyone confirm or set me straight on this ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I admit I know nothing about cars, let alone their computer systems.But I always thought that modern cars had some kind of primitive "black box" type feature that would record things like acceleration, breaking, speed... I dunno what else, and tie that into the air bag deployment.I have no idea WHY I assume this, but it's always been floating around in my mind.Can anyone confirm or set me straight on this?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29981650</id>
	<title>Re:God damn it this again</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257015480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No kidding. One person wrecks their car, and all the sudden everyone else magically remembers that their Toyota accelerates out of control.</p><p>Learn how to drive, you fucks. No other Toyoya drivers died from this problem or even reported it until recently. Stop putting your foot on the fucking gas pedal and using cruise control for everything. It saddens me to see more frivolous lawsuits.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No kidding .
One person wrecks their car , and all the sudden everyone else magically remembers that their Toyota accelerates out of control.Learn how to drive , you fucks .
No other Toyoya drivers died from this problem or even reported it until recently .
Stop putting your foot on the fucking gas pedal and using cruise control for everything .
It saddens me to see more frivolous lawsuits .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No kidding.
One person wrecks their car, and all the sudden everyone else magically remembers that their Toyota accelerates out of control.Learn how to drive, you fucks.
No other Toyoya drivers died from this problem or even reported it until recently.
Stop putting your foot on the fucking gas pedal and using cruise control for everything.
It saddens me to see more frivolous lawsuits.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973562</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973752</id>
	<title>Again?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257271260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ok, repeat after me:  there is no production car on the planet with an engine capable of suddenly overpowering simple hydraulic brakes.</p><p>Know what Audi's engineers found back in the 80s?  They found gas pedals bent out of shape by people standing on their "brakes".</p><p>This is not "news for nerds".  This is the same bullshit driver error as before, just the computers playing boogeyman are a bit more advanced this time.</p><p>P.S.  This opinion is based on the statements quoted in the article.  The laws of physics may not be widely known, but your car can't nullify them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ok , repeat after me : there is no production car on the planet with an engine capable of suddenly overpowering simple hydraulic brakes.Know what Audi 's engineers found back in the 80s ?
They found gas pedals bent out of shape by people standing on their " brakes " .This is not " news for nerds " .
This is the same bullshit driver error as before , just the computers playing boogeyman are a bit more advanced this time.P.S .
This opinion is based on the statements quoted in the article .
The laws of physics may not be widely known , but your car ca n't nullify them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ok, repeat after me:  there is no production car on the planet with an engine capable of suddenly overpowering simple hydraulic brakes.Know what Audi's engineers found back in the 80s?
They found gas pedals bent out of shape by people standing on their "brakes".This is not "news for nerds".
This is the same bullshit driver error as before, just the computers playing boogeyman are a bit more advanced this time.P.S.
This opinion is based on the statements quoted in the article.
The laws of physics may not be widely known, but your car can't nullify them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974012</id>
	<title>Throttle Position Sensor</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257272760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had this same problem with a 1989 Jeep Cherokee in 2000. People died because of similar problems. On the internet and in court, Jeep claimed it was user error. The problem is people don't know enough about their cars to diagnose it, but it turned out to be the Throttle Position Sensor. Which would randomly rev the engine to 4000 RPM's instead of the idle of ~900 when you put it into gear. Yes, absolutely unpredictably. It was not easily duplicated for a mechanic, because when the TPS first started to go bad, it was very infrequent.</p><p>The problem is your normal routine is start the car and put it into gear almost immediately. The engine takes more time to rev noticeably past idle speed, at which time you're already moving and lost control of the car. Jeep claimed this was an unreasonable explanation, because they had an engineer sit in the car, depress the brake, put the car into gear, and then rev the engine and be unable to overpower the brakes. I found this only to be true if I were standing on the brakes, something I wasn't in practice to do, from a stop. It also overlooked the problem that once you let the car start moving, getting it stopped again was extremely difficult.</p><p>So everyone always assumes there are enough idiots out there for it to be driver error, but it happened to me, so I never trust any of the car manufacturers when this problem creeps up which it does fairly often. Also, it seems like extremely poor engineering on the manufacturer's part to fail to acknowledge this possible avenue of failure. Seems more like they are just covering their asses to avoid culpability.</p><p>I was in college at the time, and this is probably one of the more valuable lessons I've ever learned in engineering and something I think would be valuable in software engineering also. Never, ever dismiss complaining customers as morons just because its the simplest explanation especially regarding a safety issue. People actually put up with a lot. More often than not, when people complain and it is difficult to do so, there is merit to the complaint. A proper investigation is required, and a open mind, and wide imagination help determine the failure states.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had this same problem with a 1989 Jeep Cherokee in 2000 .
People died because of similar problems .
On the internet and in court , Jeep claimed it was user error .
The problem is people do n't know enough about their cars to diagnose it , but it turned out to be the Throttle Position Sensor .
Which would randomly rev the engine to 4000 RPM 's instead of the idle of ~ 900 when you put it into gear .
Yes , absolutely unpredictably .
It was not easily duplicated for a mechanic , because when the TPS first started to go bad , it was very infrequent.The problem is your normal routine is start the car and put it into gear almost immediately .
The engine takes more time to rev noticeably past idle speed , at which time you 're already moving and lost control of the car .
Jeep claimed this was an unreasonable explanation , because they had an engineer sit in the car , depress the brake , put the car into gear , and then rev the engine and be unable to overpower the brakes .
I found this only to be true if I were standing on the brakes , something I was n't in practice to do , from a stop .
It also overlooked the problem that once you let the car start moving , getting it stopped again was extremely difficult.So everyone always assumes there are enough idiots out there for it to be driver error , but it happened to me , so I never trust any of the car manufacturers when this problem creeps up which it does fairly often .
Also , it seems like extremely poor engineering on the manufacturer 's part to fail to acknowledge this possible avenue of failure .
Seems more like they are just covering their asses to avoid culpability.I was in college at the time , and this is probably one of the more valuable lessons I 've ever learned in engineering and something I think would be valuable in software engineering also .
Never , ever dismiss complaining customers as morons just because its the simplest explanation especially regarding a safety issue .
People actually put up with a lot .
More often than not , when people complain and it is difficult to do so , there is merit to the complaint .
A proper investigation is required , and a open mind , and wide imagination help determine the failure states .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had this same problem with a 1989 Jeep Cherokee in 2000.
People died because of similar problems.
On the internet and in court, Jeep claimed it was user error.
The problem is people don't know enough about their cars to diagnose it, but it turned out to be the Throttle Position Sensor.
Which would randomly rev the engine to 4000 RPM's instead of the idle of ~900 when you put it into gear.
Yes, absolutely unpredictably.
It was not easily duplicated for a mechanic, because when the TPS first started to go bad, it was very infrequent.The problem is your normal routine is start the car and put it into gear almost immediately.
The engine takes more time to rev noticeably past idle speed, at which time you're already moving and lost control of the car.
Jeep claimed this was an unreasonable explanation, because they had an engineer sit in the car, depress the brake, put the car into gear, and then rev the engine and be unable to overpower the brakes.
I found this only to be true if I were standing on the brakes, something I wasn't in practice to do, from a stop.
It also overlooked the problem that once you let the car start moving, getting it stopped again was extremely difficult.So everyone always assumes there are enough idiots out there for it to be driver error, but it happened to me, so I never trust any of the car manufacturers when this problem creeps up which it does fairly often.
Also, it seems like extremely poor engineering on the manufacturer's part to fail to acknowledge this possible avenue of failure.
Seems more like they are just covering their asses to avoid culpability.I was in college at the time, and this is probably one of the more valuable lessons I've ever learned in engineering and something I think would be valuable in software engineering also.
Never, ever dismiss complaining customers as morons just because its the simplest explanation especially regarding a safety issue.
People actually put up with a lot.
More often than not, when people complain and it is difficult to do so, there is merit to the complaint.
A proper investigation is required, and a open mind, and wide imagination help determine the failure states.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973868</id>
	<title>Gotta be some edge case set of conditions...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257271920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>they can't replicate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>they ca n't replicate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>they can't replicate.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973564</id>
	<title>I have a 2002 Prius</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257270240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The computer went bonkers over a year ago. All the warning lights came on, etc... I bought it in South Florida, moved several times, put 140k miles on it, and live in the San Francisco Bay Area now. I took it to the Toyota dealership here and wanted an explanation!</p><p>They kept it a few months, brought in an expert, and told me it was a faulty sensor. The on-board computer thinks the hybrid battery is dead, yet it is continuously sending out a full charge! The dealership told me the faulty sensor was embedded in the transmission housing, would require a complete replacement of the transmission (which involves removing the engine), at a cost of $7,000. To fix... a sensor.</p><p>Ugh... so I opted not to fix it, as the car works great otherwise. Kinda annoying though - as every warning indicator is always lit so I never know if anything else needs service.</p><p>I gotta admit, other than that - its never accelerated on its own - thank goodness!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The computer went bonkers over a year ago .
All the warning lights came on , etc... I bought it in South Florida , moved several times , put 140k miles on it , and live in the San Francisco Bay Area now .
I took it to the Toyota dealership here and wanted an explanation ! They kept it a few months , brought in an expert , and told me it was a faulty sensor .
The on-board computer thinks the hybrid battery is dead , yet it is continuously sending out a full charge !
The dealership told me the faulty sensor was embedded in the transmission housing , would require a complete replacement of the transmission ( which involves removing the engine ) , at a cost of $ 7,000 .
To fix... a sensor.Ugh... so I opted not to fix it , as the car works great otherwise .
Kinda annoying though - as every warning indicator is always lit so I never know if anything else needs service.I got ta admit , other than that - its never accelerated on its own - thank goodness !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The computer went bonkers over a year ago.
All the warning lights came on, etc... I bought it in South Florida, moved several times, put 140k miles on it, and live in the San Francisco Bay Area now.
I took it to the Toyota dealership here and wanted an explanation!They kept it a few months, brought in an expert, and told me it was a faulty sensor.
The on-board computer thinks the hybrid battery is dead, yet it is continuously sending out a full charge!
The dealership told me the faulty sensor was embedded in the transmission housing, would require a complete replacement of the transmission (which involves removing the engine), at a cost of $7,000.
To fix... a sensor.Ugh... so I opted not to fix it, as the car works great otherwise.
Kinda annoying though - as every warning indicator is always lit so I never know if anything else needs service.I gotta admit, other than that - its never accelerated on its own - thank goodness!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29977332</id>
	<title>Re:Throttle Position Sensor</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257000900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"How in the hell could a car possible start accelerating on its own?"</p><p>Quite easy actually. Even for a Non-drive by wire vehicle. Cars have to be able to meet emissions at idle, the throttle is closed at idle but the load on the engine still varies<nobr> <wbr></nobr>,AC, alternator, etc so the ECU has to have a way to control the amount of air entering the engine. THis is done with a stepper motor contolled valve that bypasses the throttle plate. If this bypass circuit is wide open the engine will acelerate. If this valve gets worn or gummed up it can stick open. This happens on my 88 jeep with the french designed engine control system. Note that this is another vheicle that has a reputation for unintended acceleration. The stepper motor used to controll this valve does not have an encoder on it so the ECU has no idea where the valve is positioned or if it responed to the command to move.<br>
&nbsp; Also note that the engine produces a good amount of torque (~200 ftlbs just above idle) I can tell you from experience that when the engine decides to rev to 3000 rpm it takes a good bit of pressure on the brake to keep the vehicle from moving.</p><p>Cleaning this motor and the throttle body is enough to make the problem go away, and shutting it off and restarting it a few times is enough to clear the fault.</p><p>And yes I have replaced the TPS this did not seem to be the problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" How in the hell could a car possible start accelerating on its own ?
" Quite easy actually .
Even for a Non-drive by wire vehicle .
Cars have to be able to meet emissions at idle , the throttle is closed at idle but the load on the engine still varies ,AC , alternator , etc so the ECU has to have a way to control the amount of air entering the engine .
THis is done with a stepper motor contolled valve that bypasses the throttle plate .
If this bypass circuit is wide open the engine will acelerate .
If this valve gets worn or gummed up it can stick open .
This happens on my 88 jeep with the french designed engine control system .
Note that this is another vheicle that has a reputation for unintended acceleration .
The stepper motor used to controll this valve does not have an encoder on it so the ECU has no idea where the valve is positioned or if it responed to the command to move .
  Also note that the engine produces a good amount of torque ( ~ 200 ftlbs just above idle ) I can tell you from experience that when the engine decides to rev to 3000 rpm it takes a good bit of pressure on the brake to keep the vehicle from moving.Cleaning this motor and the throttle body is enough to make the problem go away , and shutting it off and restarting it a few times is enough to clear the fault.And yes I have replaced the TPS this did not seem to be the problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"How in the hell could a car possible start accelerating on its own?
"Quite easy actually.
Even for a Non-drive by wire vehicle.
Cars have to be able to meet emissions at idle, the throttle is closed at idle but the load on the engine still varies ,AC, alternator, etc so the ECU has to have a way to control the amount of air entering the engine.
THis is done with a stepper motor contolled valve that bypasses the throttle plate.
If this bypass circuit is wide open the engine will acelerate.
If this valve gets worn or gummed up it can stick open.
This happens on my 88 jeep with the french designed engine control system.
Note that this is another vheicle that has a reputation for unintended acceleration.
The stepper motor used to controll this valve does not have an encoder on it so the ECU has no idea where the valve is positioned or if it responed to the command to move.
  Also note that the engine produces a good amount of torque (~200 ftlbs just above idle) I can tell you from experience that when the engine decides to rev to 3000 rpm it takes a good bit of pressure on the brake to keep the vehicle from moving.Cleaning this motor and the throttle body is enough to make the problem go away, and shutting it off and restarting it a few times is enough to clear the fault.And yes I have replaced the TPS this did not seem to be the problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974012</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29975572</id>
	<title>It's called Cruise Control</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256985060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've had no problems with my Prius, however I did experience something similar to what those drivers are complaining about when I had cruise control turned on and active (set to a specific speed, as opposed to having no speed set).  When cruise control is on and I tap the break to slow down and temporarily take the car off cruise control, if I don't touch any of the pedals for a few seconds and the car continues to decelerate, cruise control will kick back in and accelerate the car back up to the set speed.  I would not be at all surprised if the problem was actually due to misuse or misunderstanding of cruise control.</p><p>Hell, some people are stupid enough that they need to be specifically told that just because cruise control is on, doesn't mean you can get up to go make a sandwich while driving, I guess they also need to be told that cruise control will cause the vehicle to maintain a set speed with no throttle or break input.  Oh wait, that's specifically what it does.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've had no problems with my Prius , however I did experience something similar to what those drivers are complaining about when I had cruise control turned on and active ( set to a specific speed , as opposed to having no speed set ) .
When cruise control is on and I tap the break to slow down and temporarily take the car off cruise control , if I do n't touch any of the pedals for a few seconds and the car continues to decelerate , cruise control will kick back in and accelerate the car back up to the set speed .
I would not be at all surprised if the problem was actually due to misuse or misunderstanding of cruise control.Hell , some people are stupid enough that they need to be specifically told that just because cruise control is on , does n't mean you can get up to go make a sandwich while driving , I guess they also need to be told that cruise control will cause the vehicle to maintain a set speed with no throttle or break input .
Oh wait , that 's specifically what it does .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've had no problems with my Prius, however I did experience something similar to what those drivers are complaining about when I had cruise control turned on and active (set to a specific speed, as opposed to having no speed set).
When cruise control is on and I tap the break to slow down and temporarily take the car off cruise control, if I don't touch any of the pedals for a few seconds and the car continues to decelerate, cruise control will kick back in and accelerate the car back up to the set speed.
I would not be at all surprised if the problem was actually due to misuse or misunderstanding of cruise control.Hell, some people are stupid enough that they need to be specifically told that just because cruise control is on, doesn't mean you can get up to go make a sandwich while driving, I guess they also need to be told that cruise control will cause the vehicle to maintain a set speed with no throttle or break input.
Oh wait, that's specifically what it does.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29976588</id>
	<title>Re:God damn it this again</title>
	<author>otter42</author>
	<datestamp>1256995740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>There's no car you can buy today where you cannot overpower the engine with full braking force. Try it: stand on the accelerator with your left foot for a while, then stand on the brake. Push both down as hard as you can; your car will slow down and stop. It won't be happy about it, but it will. The drivers in this case didn't do that: they panicked and didn't press the brakes hard enough.</i></p><p>Unfortunately, you are categorically wrong.</p><p>In fact, it might not be far off to say that there is not ONE SINGLE car that can be stopped with brakes alone when at full throttle. Read <a href="http://spectrum.ieee.org/blog/computing/it/riskfactor/how-hard-should-it-be-to-stop-a-runaway-car" title="ieee.org">http://spectrum.ieee.org/blog/computing/it/riskfactor/how-hard-should-it-be-to-stop-a-runaway-car</a> [ieee.org]</p><p><i>As for hitting the brakes to slow a car down, another issue pops up, says the Times. "The ES 350 and most other modern vehicles are equipped with power-assisted brakes, which operate by drawing vacuum power from the engine. But when an engine opens to full throttle [like in a runaway car situation], the vacuum drops, and after one or two pumps of the brake pedal, the power assist feature disappears."<br>Tests indicate that a person would have to exert 225 pounds of pressure on a brake pedal to stop it - a mean feat for almost anyone, let alone a person trying to keep a car on the road while avoiding hitting anything as it is traveling at 176 feet per second.</i></p><p>While what you said makes sense (and I believed the same myself until I started looking into it), it unfortunately is not the reality. You lose your power brakes at full throttle, and it seems that people are paying with their lives in these circumstances.</p><p>I know the tendency at<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. is to believe that most people are nitwits-- most of all policemen-- (a belief I tend to share), in the case of the Lexus police officer, he was trained for high speed pursuits, and witnesses say they saw smoke coming out of the brakes. Sometimes, you have to hang your beliefs at the door and examine the facts.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's no car you can buy today where you can not overpower the engine with full braking force .
Try it : stand on the accelerator with your left foot for a while , then stand on the brake .
Push both down as hard as you can ; your car will slow down and stop .
It wo n't be happy about it , but it will .
The drivers in this case did n't do that : they panicked and did n't press the brakes hard enough.Unfortunately , you are categorically wrong.In fact , it might not be far off to say that there is not ONE SINGLE car that can be stopped with brakes alone when at full throttle .
Read http : //spectrum.ieee.org/blog/computing/it/riskfactor/how-hard-should-it-be-to-stop-a-runaway-car [ ieee.org ] As for hitting the brakes to slow a car down , another issue pops up , says the Times .
" The ES 350 and most other modern vehicles are equipped with power-assisted brakes , which operate by drawing vacuum power from the engine .
But when an engine opens to full throttle [ like in a runaway car situation ] , the vacuum drops , and after one or two pumps of the brake pedal , the power assist feature disappears .
" Tests indicate that a person would have to exert 225 pounds of pressure on a brake pedal to stop it - a mean feat for almost anyone , let alone a person trying to keep a car on the road while avoiding hitting anything as it is traveling at 176 feet per second.While what you said makes sense ( and I believed the same myself until I started looking into it ) , it unfortunately is not the reality .
You lose your power brakes at full throttle , and it seems that people are paying with their lives in these circumstances.I know the tendency at / .
is to believe that most people are nitwits-- most of all policemen-- ( a belief I tend to share ) , in the case of the Lexus police officer , he was trained for high speed pursuits , and witnesses say they saw smoke coming out of the brakes .
Sometimes , you have to hang your beliefs at the door and examine the facts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's no car you can buy today where you cannot overpower the engine with full braking force.
Try it: stand on the accelerator with your left foot for a while, then stand on the brake.
Push both down as hard as you can; your car will slow down and stop.
It won't be happy about it, but it will.
The drivers in this case didn't do that: they panicked and didn't press the brakes hard enough.Unfortunately, you are categorically wrong.In fact, it might not be far off to say that there is not ONE SINGLE car that can be stopped with brakes alone when at full throttle.
Read http://spectrum.ieee.org/blog/computing/it/riskfactor/how-hard-should-it-be-to-stop-a-runaway-car [ieee.org]As for hitting the brakes to slow a car down, another issue pops up, says the Times.
"The ES 350 and most other modern vehicles are equipped with power-assisted brakes, which operate by drawing vacuum power from the engine.
But when an engine opens to full throttle [like in a runaway car situation], the vacuum drops, and after one or two pumps of the brake pedal, the power assist feature disappears.
"Tests indicate that a person would have to exert 225 pounds of pressure on a brake pedal to stop it - a mean feat for almost anyone, let alone a person trying to keep a car on the road while avoiding hitting anything as it is traveling at 176 feet per second.While what you said makes sense (and I believed the same myself until I started looking into it), it unfortunately is not the reality.
You lose your power brakes at full throttle, and it seems that people are paying with their lives in these circumstances.I know the tendency at /.
is to believe that most people are nitwits-- most of all policemen-- (a belief I tend to share), in the case of the Lexus police officer, he was trained for high speed pursuits, and witnesses say they saw smoke coming out of the brakes.
Sometimes, you have to hang your beliefs at the door and examine the facts.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973672</id>
	<title>Brakes</title>
	<author>icebike</author>
	<datestamp>1257270720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From the linked article:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>There have been other deaths as well, including a fatal accident near San Diego this August that took the lives of California Highway patrol officer Mark Saylor, his wife, daughter and brother-in-law.</p><p>The Lexus they were driving, borrowed from a dealer, raced out of control at 100 miles an hour before hitting another vehicle, crashing into an embankment and bursting into flames.</p> </div><p>The car was clearly new to him (borrowed), and he could have mistaken the pedals, but since he died in the crash no one will know.  They had time to make a phone call to 911 claiming no brakes?</p><p>A highway patrol officer should know how to take the car out of gear, hit the brake, pull the parking break and kill the ignition. Or even just selecting a lower gear.</p><p>The fact that non of those things were done, or they didn't work suggest to me that it was indeed the floor mats trapping the pedal when they floored it to test acceleration.</p><p>But still, full brakes will at least slow down a car under full acceleration.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>From the linked article : There have been other deaths as well , including a fatal accident near San Diego this August that took the lives of California Highway patrol officer Mark Saylor , his wife , daughter and brother-in-law.The Lexus they were driving , borrowed from a dealer , raced out of control at 100 miles an hour before hitting another vehicle , crashing into an embankment and bursting into flames .
The car was clearly new to him ( borrowed ) , and he could have mistaken the pedals , but since he died in the crash no one will know .
They had time to make a phone call to 911 claiming no brakes ? A highway patrol officer should know how to take the car out of gear , hit the brake , pull the parking break and kill the ignition .
Or even just selecting a lower gear.The fact that non of those things were done , or they did n't work suggest to me that it was indeed the floor mats trapping the pedal when they floored it to test acceleration.But still , full brakes will at least slow down a car under full acceleration .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From the linked article:There have been other deaths as well, including a fatal accident near San Diego this August that took the lives of California Highway patrol officer Mark Saylor, his wife, daughter and brother-in-law.The Lexus they were driving, borrowed from a dealer, raced out of control at 100 miles an hour before hitting another vehicle, crashing into an embankment and bursting into flames.
The car was clearly new to him (borrowed), and he could have mistaken the pedals, but since he died in the crash no one will know.
They had time to make a phone call to 911 claiming no brakes?A highway patrol officer should know how to take the car out of gear, hit the brake, pull the parking break and kill the ignition.
Or even just selecting a lower gear.The fact that non of those things were done, or they didn't work suggest to me that it was indeed the floor mats trapping the pedal when they floored it to test acceleration.But still, full brakes will at least slow down a car under full acceleration.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974192</id>
	<title>Does it need a service pack</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257274200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Besides the obvious, does it run on windows, how you fix this, are we going to start seeing service packs for cars?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Besides the obvious , does it run on windows , how you fix this , are we going to start seeing service packs for cars ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Besides the obvious, does it run on windows, how you fix this, are we going to start seeing service packs for cars?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29979518</id>
	<title>Found on EBay: Toyota Rapid Acceleration Kit</title>
	<author>LifesABeach</author>
	<datestamp>1257008940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Contents of kit:<br>
1. Head Band with a large red dot in the middle.<br>
2. 1 copy of written instructions:  <br>
When Rapid Acceleration occurs, place Head Band on head. <br>
Raise both hands above head.<br>
Scream the following: "Banzai!  Banzai!  Banzai!"<br>
<br>
My apologies, to Anime Fans, everywhere.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Contents of kit : 1 .
Head Band with a large red dot in the middle .
2. 1 copy of written instructions : When Rapid Acceleration occurs , place Head Band on head .
Raise both hands above head .
Scream the following : " Banzai !
Banzai ! Banzai !
" My apologies , to Anime Fans , everywhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Contents of kit:
1.
Head Band with a large red dot in the middle.
2. 1 copy of written instructions:  
When Rapid Acceleration occurs, place Head Band on head.
Raise both hands above head.
Scream the following: "Banzai!
Banzai!  Banzai!
"

My apologies, to Anime Fans, everywhere.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974736</id>
	<title>how american</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257020280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm causing an accident, let's blame the car. Let's blame, and therefore sue, anything or anyone. How very, very american.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm causing an accident , let 's blame the car .
Let 's blame , and therefore sue , anything or anyone .
How very , very american .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm causing an accident, let's blame the car.
Let's blame, and therefore sue, anything or anyone.
How very, very american.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29979938</id>
	<title>Buy American - problem solved ;-)</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257010260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Buy American - problem solved<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p><p>nuf said</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Buy American - problem solved ; - ) nuf said</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Buy American - problem solved ;-)nuf said</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29975090</id>
	<title>It's happened to me...</title>
	<author>malv</author>
	<datestamp>1256980560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I had this happen with a Saturn. I was in a drive through waiting to get to the window when they car suddenly lurched towards the vehicle infront of me. I nearly rear-ended him, but luckily I was able to cut the gas in time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I had this happen with a Saturn .
I was in a drive through waiting to get to the window when they car suddenly lurched towards the vehicle infront of me .
I nearly rear-ended him , but luckily I was able to cut the gas in time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had this happen with a Saturn.
I was in a drive through waiting to get to the window when they car suddenly lurched towards the vehicle infront of me.
I nearly rear-ended him, but luckily I was able to cut the gas in time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974222</id>
	<title>Re:problems with complexity</title>
	<author>PinkyGigglebrain</author>
	<datestamp>1257274440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>F-22 raptor - 1.7 million lines of code<br>
F-35 joint strike fighter - 5.7 million<br>
Boeing 787 - 6.5 million<br>
Premium class automobile - ~ 100 million<br> <br>And only one block of bad code to ROYALLY FUCK IT ALL UP!<br> <br>Is this a case of the driver stepping on the gas instead of the brake? Maybe.<br> <br>Is this a case of a 1:1000000 race condition?  Maybe.<br> <br>In a multi-tasking environment, as most car computers are, you can have dozens if not hundreds of different tasks all using the same resources.  Unless access to a resource is protected, and every block of code that uses the resource also recognizes the protection (mutex semaphore, hardware flag, whatnot,...) then it is a race condition, or worse, waiting to happen.<br> <br>As others have pointed out in the past this sort "runaway car" event has been driver error. <br> <br>My point is that the more code a car has the more chance that one of these days its going to be something in the code, and not driver error, that costs someone there life.</htmltext>
<tokenext>F-22 raptor - 1.7 million lines of code F-35 joint strike fighter - 5.7 million Boeing 787 - 6.5 million Premium class automobile - ~ 100 million And only one block of bad code to ROYALLY FUCK IT ALL UP !
Is this a case of the driver stepping on the gas instead of the brake ?
Maybe. Is this a case of a 1 : 1000000 race condition ?
Maybe. In a multi-tasking environment , as most car computers are , you can have dozens if not hundreds of different tasks all using the same resources .
Unless access to a resource is protected , and every block of code that uses the resource also recognizes the protection ( mutex semaphore , hardware flag , whatnot,... ) then it is a race condition , or worse , waiting to happen .
As others have pointed out in the past this sort " runaway car " event has been driver error .
My point is that the more code a car has the more chance that one of these days its going to be something in the code , and not driver error , that costs someone there life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>F-22 raptor - 1.7 million lines of code
F-35 joint strike fighter - 5.7 million
Boeing 787 - 6.5 million
Premium class automobile - ~ 100 million And only one block of bad code to ROYALLY FUCK IT ALL UP!
Is this a case of the driver stepping on the gas instead of the brake?
Maybe. Is this a case of a 1:1000000 race condition?
Maybe. In a multi-tasking environment, as most car computers are, you can have dozens if not hundreds of different tasks all using the same resources.
Unless access to a resource is protected, and every block of code that uses the resource also recognizes the protection (mutex semaphore, hardware flag, whatnot,...) then it is a race condition, or worse, waiting to happen.
As others have pointed out in the past this sort "runaway car" event has been driver error.
My point is that the more code a car has the more chance that one of these days its going to be something in the code, and not driver error, that costs someone there life.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973576</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974460</id>
	<title>Re:Brakes</title>
	<author>flghtmstr1</author>
	<datestamp>1257276660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is not true.  Brake fade is caused by the hydraulic fluid boiling, thereby turning an incompressible fluid into a compressible one, thereby greatly reducing the amount of force applied to the pads.  It is also important to keep in mind that, as has been previously stated but largely ignored, most modern-day brakes are vacuum-assisted.  At wide open throttle, there is no appreciable vacuum in the intake manifold, so the brakes will only work for one or two pumps (there is a vacuum reservoir that maintains a limited amount of vacuum in the event that the engine is shut off and the brakes need to be applied).</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is not true .
Brake fade is caused by the hydraulic fluid boiling , thereby turning an incompressible fluid into a compressible one , thereby greatly reducing the amount of force applied to the pads .
It is also important to keep in mind that , as has been previously stated but largely ignored , most modern-day brakes are vacuum-assisted .
At wide open throttle , there is no appreciable vacuum in the intake manifold , so the brakes will only work for one or two pumps ( there is a vacuum reservoir that maintains a limited amount of vacuum in the event that the engine is shut off and the brakes need to be applied ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is not true.
Brake fade is caused by the hydraulic fluid boiling, thereby turning an incompressible fluid into a compressible one, thereby greatly reducing the amount of force applied to the pads.
It is also important to keep in mind that, as has been previously stated but largely ignored, most modern-day brakes are vacuum-assisted.
At wide open throttle, there is no appreciable vacuum in the intake manifold, so the brakes will only work for one or two pumps (there is a vacuum reservoir that maintains a limited amount of vacuum in the event that the engine is shut off and the brakes need to be applied).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974174</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29978752</id>
	<title>Lexus has issues as well</title>
	<author>aspelling</author>
	<datestamp>1257006540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My wife co-worker's Lexus accelerated unexpectedly unfortunately she had automatic tranny which refused to go into neutral.<br>Two things has happened as a result -<br>Bad: she got injured<br>Good: her Lexus was a total loss so she could get rid of it</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My wife co-worker 's Lexus accelerated unexpectedly unfortunately she had automatic tranny which refused to go into neutral.Two things has happened as a result -Bad : she got injuredGood : her Lexus was a total loss so she could get rid of it</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My wife co-worker's Lexus accelerated unexpectedly unfortunately she had automatic tranny which refused to go into neutral.Two things has happened as a result -Bad: she got injuredGood: her Lexus was a total loss so she could get rid of it</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974428</id>
	<title>a computer?! in a car?! it'll never catch on</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257276360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My car doesn't have this problem.<br>Possibly because the only electronic device on the whole vehicle is the auto-reverse cassette deck</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My car does n't have this problem.Possibly because the only electronic device on the whole vehicle is the auto-reverse cassette deck</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My car doesn't have this problem.Possibly because the only electronic device on the whole vehicle is the auto-reverse cassette deck</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29979404</id>
	<title>Re:Driver error.</title>
	<author>whitedsepdivine</author>
	<datestamp>1257008580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have seen cars with bad tps that would not die past a certain point because the potentiometer was grounding out.  It is reasonable to think that if they reversed the potentiometer where ground was positive movement that if the tps sensor then went bad it would have the reverse effect of redlining.

I guarentee that cars are not infalable.  In fact cars are designed to not last.  Appearently you where on the Therac-25 development team.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have seen cars with bad tps that would not die past a certain point because the potentiometer was grounding out .
It is reasonable to think that if they reversed the potentiometer where ground was positive movement that if the tps sensor then went bad it would have the reverse effect of redlining .
I guarentee that cars are not infalable .
In fact cars are designed to not last .
Appearently you where on the Therac-25 development team .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have seen cars with bad tps that would not die past a certain point because the potentiometer was grounding out.
It is reasonable to think that if they reversed the potentiometer where ground was positive movement that if the tps sensor then went bad it would have the reverse effect of redlining.
I guarentee that cars are not infalable.
In fact cars are designed to not last.
Appearently you where on the Therac-25 development team.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973878</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29982892</id>
	<title>Re:Throttle Position Sensor</title>
	<author>ThatsNotPudding</author>
	<datestamp>1257018840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes, but do keep a proper sense of perspective!  Jeep probably saved millions going with the cheaper TPS!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , but do keep a proper sense of perspective !
Jeep probably saved millions going with the cheaper TPS !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, but do keep a proper sense of perspective!
Jeep probably saved millions going with the cheaper TPS!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974012</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974064</id>
	<title>Had time to use a cell phone?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257273060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My favorite quote from the article:</p><p>Right before the crash, Saylor's brother-in-law called 911 from the backseat of the vehicle and said urgently, "Our accelerator is stuck. We're in trouble&amp;There's no brakes."</p><p>So there was time for the passenger to use a cell phone but no time for the driver to either:</p><p>1) Turn off the engine<br>2) Put the car in neutral<br>3) Use the E-brake</p><p>That is, of course, assuming an unlikely coincident failure of two independent systems in the car (hydraulic breaking system and throttle). . . .</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>My favorite quote from the article : Right before the crash , Saylor 's brother-in-law called 911 from the backseat of the vehicle and said urgently , " Our accelerator is stuck .
We 're in trouble&amp;There 's no brakes .
" So there was time for the passenger to use a cell phone but no time for the driver to either : 1 ) Turn off the engine2 ) Put the car in neutral3 ) Use the E-brakeThat is , of course , assuming an unlikely coincident failure of two independent systems in the car ( hydraulic breaking system and throttle ) .
. .
.</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My favorite quote from the article:Right before the crash, Saylor's brother-in-law called 911 from the backseat of the vehicle and said urgently, "Our accelerator is stuck.
We're in trouble&amp;There's no brakes.
"So there was time for the passenger to use a cell phone but no time for the driver to either:1) Turn off the engine2) Put the car in neutral3) Use the E-brakeThat is, of course, assuming an unlikely coincident failure of two independent systems in the car (hydraulic breaking system and throttle).
. .
.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29976076</id>
	<title>Some jet engines had this problem in the 80's</title>
	<author>twosat</author>
	<datestamp>1256990520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>When jet engines with Full Authority Digital Engine Controllers (FADECs) were introduced in about the late 80's there were several cases of engines suddenly surging to uncommanded high speeds.  It turned out that the digital commands were sometimes getting corrupted between the cockpit computers and the FADECs.  This was cured by requiring the commands to be repeated several times before they were accepted by and acted on by the FADEC in question.</htmltext>
<tokenext>When jet engines with Full Authority Digital Engine Controllers ( FADECs ) were introduced in about the late 80 's there were several cases of engines suddenly surging to uncommanded high speeds .
It turned out that the digital commands were sometimes getting corrupted between the cockpit computers and the FADECs .
This was cured by requiring the commands to be repeated several times before they were accepted by and acted on by the FADEC in question .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When jet engines with Full Authority Digital Engine Controllers (FADECs) were introduced in about the late 80's there were several cases of engines suddenly surging to uncommanded high speeds.
It turned out that the digital commands were sometimes getting corrupted between the cockpit computers and the FADECs.
This was cured by requiring the commands to be repeated several times before they were accepted by and acted on by the FADEC in question.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29980054</id>
	<title>Re:God damn it this again</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257010500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>There's no car you can buy today where you cannot overpower the engine with full braking force.</p></div> </blockquote><p>You sir, are mistaken.  The Camaro, Corvette, Cadillac XTS  all have engines capable of moving the vehicle while applying full pressure to brakes. All at less than 2900 RPM.</p><p>Disclaimer: I am a mechanic.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's no car you can buy today where you can not overpower the engine with full braking force .
You sir , are mistaken .
The Camaro , Corvette , Cadillac XTS all have engines capable of moving the vehicle while applying full pressure to brakes .
All at less than 2900 RPM.Disclaimer : I am a mechanic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's no car you can buy today where you cannot overpower the engine with full braking force.
You sir, are mistaken.
The Camaro, Corvette, Cadillac XTS  all have engines capable of moving the vehicle while applying full pressure to brakes.
All at less than 2900 RPM.Disclaimer: I am a mechanic.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29978384</id>
	<title>A times B times C equals X.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257005280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If X is less than the cost of a recall , we do n't do one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29977302</id>
	<title>Can we have a little sanity please?</title>
	<author>ctromley</author>
	<datestamp>1257000780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There's a very basic problem here that no one seems to be getting.  Drivers claim that their cars accelerate even though they push hard on the brake pedal.  That's not possible.  The brakes are more powerful than the engine.  Always.  Because it's so much easier and cheaper (both initially and liability-wise) to make powerful brakes than a powerful engine.  The brakes win.  Every time.  No exceptions.  You can prove this to yourself by going to a deserted road and flooring the gas pedal.  Hold it down, then use your left foot to step on the brake.  You can easily bring the car to a dead stop, even with your gas pedal mashed to the floor.  Even if you're driving the most over-powered performance car on the road.  (If it's a manual transmission, let up around 2000 rpm or you'll damage the engine.)

There is no connection, mechanical, electronic or via software, between the engine management system and the braking system.  A failure relating to the gas pedal cannot in any way affect the brakes.  Even if all the electronics go completely nuts, the brakes still default to a simple, independent hydraulic system.

This whole story is hogwash.  It's the Audi 5000 all over again.  Everyone went crazy over how the demonic "unintended acceleration" was going to kill us all.  The final conclusion?  People were stepping on the wrong pedal.

This is not a technological problem.  It's a human factors problem.  Still a problem that needs to be addressed, but can we please shut up the science-challenged Chicken Littles so we can address it?</htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's a very basic problem here that no one seems to be getting .
Drivers claim that their cars accelerate even though they push hard on the brake pedal .
That 's not possible .
The brakes are more powerful than the engine .
Always. Because it 's so much easier and cheaper ( both initially and liability-wise ) to make powerful brakes than a powerful engine .
The brakes win .
Every time .
No exceptions .
You can prove this to yourself by going to a deserted road and flooring the gas pedal .
Hold it down , then use your left foot to step on the brake .
You can easily bring the car to a dead stop , even with your gas pedal mashed to the floor .
Even if you 're driving the most over-powered performance car on the road .
( If it 's a manual transmission , let up around 2000 rpm or you 'll damage the engine .
) There is no connection , mechanical , electronic or via software , between the engine management system and the braking system .
A failure relating to the gas pedal can not in any way affect the brakes .
Even if all the electronics go completely nuts , the brakes still default to a simple , independent hydraulic system .
This whole story is hogwash .
It 's the Audi 5000 all over again .
Everyone went crazy over how the demonic " unintended acceleration " was going to kill us all .
The final conclusion ?
People were stepping on the wrong pedal .
This is not a technological problem .
It 's a human factors problem .
Still a problem that needs to be addressed , but can we please shut up the science-challenged Chicken Littles so we can address it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's a very basic problem here that no one seems to be getting.
Drivers claim that their cars accelerate even though they push hard on the brake pedal.
That's not possible.
The brakes are more powerful than the engine.
Always.  Because it's so much easier and cheaper (both initially and liability-wise) to make powerful brakes than a powerful engine.
The brakes win.
Every time.
No exceptions.
You can prove this to yourself by going to a deserted road and flooring the gas pedal.
Hold it down, then use your left foot to step on the brake.
You can easily bring the car to a dead stop, even with your gas pedal mashed to the floor.
Even if you're driving the most over-powered performance car on the road.
(If it's a manual transmission, let up around 2000 rpm or you'll damage the engine.
)

There is no connection, mechanical, electronic or via software, between the engine management system and the braking system.
A failure relating to the gas pedal cannot in any way affect the brakes.
Even if all the electronics go completely nuts, the brakes still default to a simple, independent hydraulic system.
This whole story is hogwash.
It's the Audi 5000 all over again.
Everyone went crazy over how the demonic "unintended acceleration" was going to kill us all.
The final conclusion?
People were stepping on the wrong pedal.
This is not a technological problem.
It's a human factors problem.
Still a problem that needs to be addressed, but can we please shut up the science-challenged Chicken Littles so we can address it?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29978624</id>
	<title>F1</title>
	<author>johno.ie</author>
	<datestamp>1257006180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Perhaps Toyota should have used this "technology" in their Formula 1 cars. It might have helped them tremendously during the last few years. It seems that it's <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula\_one/8341602.stm" title="bbc.co.uk" rel="nofollow">too late</a> [bbc.co.uk] now though.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps Toyota should have used this " technology " in their Formula 1 cars .
It might have helped them tremendously during the last few years .
It seems that it 's too late [ bbc.co.uk ] now though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps Toyota should have used this "technology" in their Formula 1 cars.
It might have helped them tremendously during the last few years.
It seems that it's too late [bbc.co.uk] now though.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973982</id>
	<title>Re:problems with complexity</title>
	<author>khallow</author>
	<datestamp>1257272520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's an odd thing to ask, but do we have independent evidence that there is a modern car with 100 million lines of code in it? It sounds like an incredible amount of code bloat. Even 100 embedded CPUs and an onboard navigation/entertainment system shouldn't be that complex a problem in my view. For example, in 2001, GNU/Linux was thought to have <a href="Ahref=" title="slashdot.org">30 million lines</a> [slashdot.org] of code in it, and IMHO it does a lot more than a modern car does. I'm wondering if there's really just a few hundred thousand lines of code duplicated in 100 CPUs and a standard Linux or Windows embedded OS running the GUI stuff.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's an odd thing to ask , but do we have independent evidence that there is a modern car with 100 million lines of code in it ?
It sounds like an incredible amount of code bloat .
Even 100 embedded CPUs and an onboard navigation/entertainment system should n't be that complex a problem in my view .
For example , in 2001 , GNU/Linux was thought to have 30 million lines [ slashdot.org ] of code in it , and IMHO it does a lot more than a modern car does .
I 'm wondering if there 's really just a few hundred thousand lines of code duplicated in 100 CPUs and a standard Linux or Windows embedded OS running the GUI stuff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's an odd thing to ask, but do we have independent evidence that there is a modern car with 100 million lines of code in it?
It sounds like an incredible amount of code bloat.
Even 100 embedded CPUs and an onboard navigation/entertainment system shouldn't be that complex a problem in my view.
For example, in 2001, GNU/Linux was thought to have 30 million lines [slashdot.org] of code in it, and IMHO it does a lot more than a modern car does.
I'm wondering if there's really just a few hundred thousand lines of code duplicated in 100 CPUs and a standard Linux or Windows embedded OS running the GUI stuff.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973576</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973640</id>
	<title>I hate to be mean about a possibly serious issue</title>
	<author>LockeOnLogic</author>
	<datestamp>1257270600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Isn't a stuck floor mat a far more likely explanation than a mysterious computer bogeyman? Even with a recall there would be tons of cars that never changed them out. No doubt this should be investigated, but the article seems to be nothing but speculation and hearsay.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is n't a stuck floor mat a far more likely explanation than a mysterious computer bogeyman ?
Even with a recall there would be tons of cars that never changed them out .
No doubt this should be investigated , but the article seems to be nothing but speculation and hearsay .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn't a stuck floor mat a far more likely explanation than a mysterious computer bogeyman?
Even with a recall there would be tons of cars that never changed them out.
No doubt this should be investigated, but the article seems to be nothing but speculation and hearsay.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29979250</id>
	<title>Re:OMG - I own a Nissan Sentra and it happened to</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257008100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Toyota's all come with hooks for the floor mats. It appears that some dealers had been applying winter mats over the normal factor mats (so they weren't hooked in and slipped forward).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Toyota 's all come with hooks for the floor mats .
It appears that some dealers had been applying winter mats over the normal factor mats ( so they were n't hooked in and slipped forward ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Toyota's all come with hooks for the floor mats.
It appears that some dealers had been applying winter mats over the normal factor mats (so they weren't hooked in and slipped forward).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29978246</id>
	<title>Re:God damn it this again</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257004740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"The drivers in this case didn't do that: they panicked and didn't press the brakes hard enough."</p><p>You're an ijit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" The drivers in this case did n't do that : they panicked and did n't press the brakes hard enough .
" You 're an ijit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"The drivers in this case didn't do that: they panicked and didn't press the brakes hard enough.
"You're an ijit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973622</id>
	<title>no cure</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257270480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>for stupid</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>for stupid</tokentext>
<sentencetext>for stupid</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974866</id>
	<title>I, Toyota!</title>
	<author>dogganos</author>
	<datestamp>1257021480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Isaak Asimov has said it all...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Isaak Asimov has said it all.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isaak Asimov has said it all...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29977164</id>
	<title>This is serious</title>
	<author>Pictish Prince</author>
	<datestamp>1257000120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It takes a lot of acceleration for my arms to go up.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It takes a lot of acceleration for my arms to go up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It takes a lot of acceleration for my arms to go up.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29975188</id>
	<title>Re:problems with complexity</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256981520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That doesn't seem a fair comparison, considering cars have things like radios and sophisticated navigation systems. You can afford complexity and not be too worried if complexity causes the driver to be unable to find the nearest McDonalds.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That does n't seem a fair comparison , considering cars have things like radios and sophisticated navigation systems .
You can afford complexity and not be too worried if complexity causes the driver to be unable to find the nearest McDonalds .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That doesn't seem a fair comparison, considering cars have things like radios and sophisticated navigation systems.
You can afford complexity and not be too worried if complexity causes the driver to be unable to find the nearest McDonalds.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973576</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29977648</id>
	<title>Re:Go to the ABC site - watch video</title>
	<author>maxume</author>
	<datestamp>1257002340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That people are willing to drive vehicles they do not know how to turn off is a massive failure of driver education.</p><p>(I'm not sure I would have been bothered that I didn't know how to turn off the Prius, but I would be now...)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That people are willing to drive vehicles they do not know how to turn off is a massive failure of driver education .
( I 'm not sure I would have been bothered that I did n't know how to turn off the Prius , but I would be now... )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That people are willing to drive vehicles they do not know how to turn off is a massive failure of driver education.
(I'm not sure I would have been bothered that I didn't know how to turn off the Prius, but I would be now...)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29977082</id>
	<title>This is a new issue?</title>
	<author>qmetaball</author>
	<datestamp>1256999640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>hell, i've got an 86 Bronco II that occasionally tries to surge and ram the guy in front of me at a light, this isn't really a new problem.</htmltext>
<tokenext>hell , i 've got an 86 Bronco II that occasionally tries to surge and ram the guy in front of me at a light , this is n't really a new problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>hell, i've got an 86 Bronco II that occasionally tries to surge and ram the guy in front of me at a light, this isn't really a new problem.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29976812</id>
	<title>There's a button for that</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256998080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about the overall problem being a combination of bad design *and* a lack of driver abilities?  Floor mats, sure, no doubt that people do it wrong just like child seats.  You take the summer mats out when putting in winter mats, jeez.  Car trying to be too smart so that the driver can be a little less smart, absolutely a problem in general.  Manual tranny for me, screw those slush boxes.  Drive by wire, no problem as long as the driver can react to problems just like us old fogies do.<br>Can't put the tranny in neutral because you've never done it due to being a slush box, that's a user issue most of the time.  Can't turn off the engine due to a fancy key fob, that's a dumb design, really dumb.  What's the point in that other than a kewl factor?  If it doesn't have at least a push button or an old fashion key then just say no to that nonsense.<br>'assisted parking'?  wtf, that's the biggest waste of technology I've heard in a car in a long time.  I have to keep a mental list of cars with the most gadgets and technology so I can stay clear of them.  Not because I fear that the technology will fail but because I fear that the driver has no clue how to drive much less react in a sensible manner.</p><p>The big 'feature' on my new car is traction control.  I've never had that so when I tested the car by putting into a slide on purpose to see how it reacts I was stunned that it corrected my slide even though I know how to do it better, same for ABS.  I'll get used to it but I typically turn that function off, thankfully there's a button for that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about the overall problem being a combination of bad design * and * a lack of driver abilities ?
Floor mats , sure , no doubt that people do it wrong just like child seats .
You take the summer mats out when putting in winter mats , jeez .
Car trying to be too smart so that the driver can be a little less smart , absolutely a problem in general .
Manual tranny for me , screw those slush boxes .
Drive by wire , no problem as long as the driver can react to problems just like us old fogies do.Ca n't put the tranny in neutral because you 've never done it due to being a slush box , that 's a user issue most of the time .
Ca n't turn off the engine due to a fancy key fob , that 's a dumb design , really dumb .
What 's the point in that other than a kewl factor ?
If it does n't have at least a push button or an old fashion key then just say no to that nonsense .
'assisted parking ' ?
wtf , that 's the biggest waste of technology I 've heard in a car in a long time .
I have to keep a mental list of cars with the most gadgets and technology so I can stay clear of them .
Not because I fear that the technology will fail but because I fear that the driver has no clue how to drive much less react in a sensible manner.The big 'feature ' on my new car is traction control .
I 've never had that so when I tested the car by putting into a slide on purpose to see how it reacts I was stunned that it corrected my slide even though I know how to do it better , same for ABS .
I 'll get used to it but I typically turn that function off , thankfully there 's a button for that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about the overall problem being a combination of bad design *and* a lack of driver abilities?
Floor mats, sure, no doubt that people do it wrong just like child seats.
You take the summer mats out when putting in winter mats, jeez.
Car trying to be too smart so that the driver can be a little less smart, absolutely a problem in general.
Manual tranny for me, screw those slush boxes.
Drive by wire, no problem as long as the driver can react to problems just like us old fogies do.Can't put the tranny in neutral because you've never done it due to being a slush box, that's a user issue most of the time.
Can't turn off the engine due to a fancy key fob, that's a dumb design, really dumb.
What's the point in that other than a kewl factor?
If it doesn't have at least a push button or an old fashion key then just say no to that nonsense.
'assisted parking'?
wtf, that's the biggest waste of technology I've heard in a car in a long time.
I have to keep a mental list of cars with the most gadgets and technology so I can stay clear of them.
Not because I fear that the technology will fail but because I fear that the driver has no clue how to drive much less react in a sensible manner.The big 'feature' on my new car is traction control.
I've never had that so when I tested the car by putting into a slide on purpose to see how it reacts I was stunned that it corrected my slide even though I know how to do it better, same for ABS.
I'll get used to it but I typically turn that function off, thankfully there's a button for that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29975256</id>
	<title>Re:God damn it this again</title>
	<author>noidentity</author>
	<datestamp>1256981940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>God damn it, this again? All these "sudden acceleration" accidents are caused by morons "suddenly" putting their foot on the gas pedal. Afterwards, they say that the car accelerated by itself - and it's impossible to prove them wrong.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>It's possible to show the likelihood of such an event by testing the vehicle many times. You might find that yes, it's fairly likely, or that it's rare, or that it has less than a 1 in a million chance.

</p><p>But I have to ask, let's say I am driving and do experience this; how can I prove it happened, and prove your "you're just an idiot" claim to be false?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>God damn it , this again ?
All these " sudden acceleration " accidents are caused by morons " suddenly " putting their foot on the gas pedal .
Afterwards , they say that the car accelerated by itself - and it 's impossible to prove them wrong .
It 's possible to show the likelihood of such an event by testing the vehicle many times .
You might find that yes , it 's fairly likely , or that it 's rare , or that it has less than a 1 in a million chance .
But I have to ask , let 's say I am driving and do experience this ; how can I prove it happened , and prove your " you 're just an idiot " claim to be false ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>God damn it, this again?
All these "sudden acceleration" accidents are caused by morons "suddenly" putting their foot on the gas pedal.
Afterwards, they say that the car accelerated by itself - and it's impossible to prove them wrong.
It's possible to show the likelihood of such an event by testing the vehicle many times.
You might find that yes, it's fairly likely, or that it's rare, or that it has less than a 1 in a million chance.
But I have to ask, let's say I am driving and do experience this; how can I prove it happened, and prove your "you're just an idiot" claim to be false?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973562</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973878</id>
	<title>Driver error.</title>
	<author>MaWeiTao</author>
	<datestamp>1257271920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I guarantee you this is another example of driver error in the same vein as the unintended acceleration that afflicted Audi 5000's years ago. If I'm not mistaken I think the problem in the Audi was that the position of the pedals was slightly off from what people were accustomed to causing them to think they were pressing down on the brake when they actually had the accelerator down to the floor. There have been a few other cars with similar issues.</p><p>I'm quite certain the problem with these Toyota's is similar. How in the hell could a car possible start accelerating on its own? And even if the accelerator is drive-by-wire the brakes are not and will likely never be. This means that if the owner got on the brakes hard they'd be able to slow the car. Even if the ECU didn't cut power when braking as some cars do, the engine won't be able to overpower the brakes. About the only possible culprit I see is cruise control, but again, that should be fairly easy to defeat.</p><p>The fact is that when some people panic they freeze up and are unable to do anything else. As with the Audi, they press the gas accidentally, the car lunges forward and they panic, pressing down harder on the pedal. It reminds me of what happened to my father years ago. He was teaching my sister's friend to drive. For whatever reason she got on the gas, started barreling towards a car and hit it. She freaked out and froze, her foot firmly planted on the gas. My father actually had to take her leg and lift it off the gas because she was completely unresponsive.</p><p>And the problem is that sometimes the issue isn't actually unintended acceleration but some other problem that gives that impression. I know of some cases, for example, where a transmission doesn't engage properly for whatever reason. The driver tries to accelerate but the car doesn't move, so they give it more gas. The transmission eventually does engage and the car lunges forward more aggressively than anticipated. The car may have a real problem, but the driver didn't respond to the issue appropriately.</p><p>People nowadays are far too ignorant about they drive. Some people barely know what they're driving, let alone how anything works. As part of driver training basic instruction on the mechanical operation of a car should be mandatory. This would allow drivers to better respond to problems and make them better informed when they deal with mechanics so that they don't get taken advantage of so easily. It's like Toyota's recall over the floor mats. Are drivers so oblivious that they don't notice their floor mats riding up under the pedals. It's not like those things slip under there that easily. Too many people seem to take driving as seriously as they do sitting on the sofa watching television. But they sure do manage to have quite an ego about what they drive.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I guarantee you this is another example of driver error in the same vein as the unintended acceleration that afflicted Audi 5000 's years ago .
If I 'm not mistaken I think the problem in the Audi was that the position of the pedals was slightly off from what people were accustomed to causing them to think they were pressing down on the brake when they actually had the accelerator down to the floor .
There have been a few other cars with similar issues.I 'm quite certain the problem with these Toyota 's is similar .
How in the hell could a car possible start accelerating on its own ?
And even if the accelerator is drive-by-wire the brakes are not and will likely never be .
This means that if the owner got on the brakes hard they 'd be able to slow the car .
Even if the ECU did n't cut power when braking as some cars do , the engine wo n't be able to overpower the brakes .
About the only possible culprit I see is cruise control , but again , that should be fairly easy to defeat.The fact is that when some people panic they freeze up and are unable to do anything else .
As with the Audi , they press the gas accidentally , the car lunges forward and they panic , pressing down harder on the pedal .
It reminds me of what happened to my father years ago .
He was teaching my sister 's friend to drive .
For whatever reason she got on the gas , started barreling towards a car and hit it .
She freaked out and froze , her foot firmly planted on the gas .
My father actually had to take her leg and lift it off the gas because she was completely unresponsive.And the problem is that sometimes the issue is n't actually unintended acceleration but some other problem that gives that impression .
I know of some cases , for example , where a transmission does n't engage properly for whatever reason .
The driver tries to accelerate but the car does n't move , so they give it more gas .
The transmission eventually does engage and the car lunges forward more aggressively than anticipated .
The car may have a real problem , but the driver did n't respond to the issue appropriately.People nowadays are far too ignorant about they drive .
Some people barely know what they 're driving , let alone how anything works .
As part of driver training basic instruction on the mechanical operation of a car should be mandatory .
This would allow drivers to better respond to problems and make them better informed when they deal with mechanics so that they do n't get taken advantage of so easily .
It 's like Toyota 's recall over the floor mats .
Are drivers so oblivious that they do n't notice their floor mats riding up under the pedals .
It 's not like those things slip under there that easily .
Too many people seem to take driving as seriously as they do sitting on the sofa watching television .
But they sure do manage to have quite an ego about what they drive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I guarantee you this is another example of driver error in the same vein as the unintended acceleration that afflicted Audi 5000's years ago.
If I'm not mistaken I think the problem in the Audi was that the position of the pedals was slightly off from what people were accustomed to causing them to think they were pressing down on the brake when they actually had the accelerator down to the floor.
There have been a few other cars with similar issues.I'm quite certain the problem with these Toyota's is similar.
How in the hell could a car possible start accelerating on its own?
And even if the accelerator is drive-by-wire the brakes are not and will likely never be.
This means that if the owner got on the brakes hard they'd be able to slow the car.
Even if the ECU didn't cut power when braking as some cars do, the engine won't be able to overpower the brakes.
About the only possible culprit I see is cruise control, but again, that should be fairly easy to defeat.The fact is that when some people panic they freeze up and are unable to do anything else.
As with the Audi, they press the gas accidentally, the car lunges forward and they panic, pressing down harder on the pedal.
It reminds me of what happened to my father years ago.
He was teaching my sister's friend to drive.
For whatever reason she got on the gas, started barreling towards a car and hit it.
She freaked out and froze, her foot firmly planted on the gas.
My father actually had to take her leg and lift it off the gas because she was completely unresponsive.And the problem is that sometimes the issue isn't actually unintended acceleration but some other problem that gives that impression.
I know of some cases, for example, where a transmission doesn't engage properly for whatever reason.
The driver tries to accelerate but the car doesn't move, so they give it more gas.
The transmission eventually does engage and the car lunges forward more aggressively than anticipated.
The car may have a real problem, but the driver didn't respond to the issue appropriately.People nowadays are far too ignorant about they drive.
Some people barely know what they're driving, let alone how anything works.
As part of driver training basic instruction on the mechanical operation of a car should be mandatory.
This would allow drivers to better respond to problems and make them better informed when they deal with mechanics so that they don't get taken advantage of so easily.
It's like Toyota's recall over the floor mats.
Are drivers so oblivious that they don't notice their floor mats riding up under the pedals.
It's not like those things slip under there that easily.
Too many people seem to take driving as seriously as they do sitting on the sofa watching television.
But they sure do manage to have quite an ego about what they drive.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29975626</id>
	<title>... And the Federal Government?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256985720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, now every time there's news to be had the Federal Government have to give us their genius insight? You might as well say, "Hey we're lying to you... and to prove it, the biggest liars in the room agree with us!"</p><p>The only thing I want the Federal Government to say to me is "yes sir". I've gone to sleep in America and Woken up in Soviet Russia, eh?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , now every time there 's news to be had the Federal Government have to give us their genius insight ?
You might as well say , " Hey we 're lying to you... and to prove it , the biggest liars in the room agree with us !
" The only thing I want the Federal Government to say to me is " yes sir " .
I 've gone to sleep in America and Woken up in Soviet Russia , eh ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, now every time there's news to be had the Federal Government have to give us their genius insight?
You might as well say, "Hey we're lying to you... and to prove it, the biggest liars in the room agree with us!
"The only thing I want the Federal Government to say to me is "yes sir".
I've gone to sleep in America and Woken up in Soviet Russia, eh?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973954</id>
	<title>First Hand Experience</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257272340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Toyota has a serious problem. Have for years. It's not the floor mats.
<br> <br>
I was driving a '98 Toyota Camry. Foot on the brake. B-R-A-K-E. Yes, I know the difference. Car in drive. Waiting for a right turn. The car revved up high. I did manage to throw it into neutral, and the engine continued to surge. Luckily I didn't hit anything. And it was pure luck.
<br> <br>
The car did not have All-weather floor mats.
<br> <br>
I have racing experience, and a background in Mechanical Engineering.<br> <br> The reason the problem hasn't been found is that it's probably a subtle fault (like the AT&amp;T crash back in the early '90s, or the stress concentrations in the DeHavilland Comet) and they're (by they I mean the NHTSA) probably not looking very thoroughly, due to lack of manpower. They don't do investigations of car crashes the way they do for other serious engineering failures, like plane crashes or bridge collapses.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Toyota has a serious problem .
Have for years .
It 's not the floor mats .
I was driving a '98 Toyota Camry .
Foot on the brake .
B-R-A-K-E. Yes , I know the difference .
Car in drive .
Waiting for a right turn .
The car revved up high .
I did manage to throw it into neutral , and the engine continued to surge .
Luckily I did n't hit anything .
And it was pure luck .
The car did not have All-weather floor mats .
I have racing experience , and a background in Mechanical Engineering .
The reason the problem has n't been found is that it 's probably a subtle fault ( like the AT&amp;T crash back in the early '90s , or the stress concentrations in the DeHavilland Comet ) and they 're ( by they I mean the NHTSA ) probably not looking very thoroughly , due to lack of manpower .
They do n't do investigations of car crashes the way they do for other serious engineering failures , like plane crashes or bridge collapses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Toyota has a serious problem.
Have for years.
It's not the floor mats.
I was driving a '98 Toyota Camry.
Foot on the brake.
B-R-A-K-E. Yes, I know the difference.
Car in drive.
Waiting for a right turn.
The car revved up high.
I did manage to throw it into neutral, and the engine continued to surge.
Luckily I didn't hit anything.
And it was pure luck.
The car did not have All-weather floor mats.
I have racing experience, and a background in Mechanical Engineering.
The reason the problem hasn't been found is that it's probably a subtle fault (like the AT&amp;T crash back in the early '90s, or the stress concentrations in the DeHavilland Comet) and they're (by they I mean the NHTSA) probably not looking very thoroughly, due to lack of manpower.
They don't do investigations of car crashes the way they do for other serious engineering failures, like plane crashes or bridge collapses.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29975196</id>
	<title>Re:First Hand Experience</title>
	<author>XCondE</author>
	<datestamp>1256981580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>They don't do investigations of car crashes the way they do for other serious engineering failures, like plane crashes or bridge collapses.</p></div><p>
They do; after they apply the formula and X is more than the cost of fixing the problem.
</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>They do n't do investigations of car crashes the way they do for other serious engineering failures , like plane crashes or bridge collapses .
They do ; after they apply the formula and X is more than the cost of fixing the problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They don't do investigations of car crashes the way they do for other serious engineering failures, like plane crashes or bridge collapses.
They do; after they apply the formula and X is more than the cost of fixing the problem.

	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973954</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29982948</id>
	<title>Awww, c'mon you guys ...</title>
	<author>gordguide</author>
	<datestamp>1257019020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>All this stuff about drive-by-wire failing, blaming the computer, and all that is clearly impossible.</p><p>Didn't you read the parent post? The NHTSA has investigated SIX of these computers and the controlling software, and found no issues.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>All this stuff about drive-by-wire failing , blaming the computer , and all that is clearly impossible.Did n't you read the parent post ?
The NHTSA has investigated SIX of these computers and the controlling software , and found no issues .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All this stuff about drive-by-wire failing, blaming the computer, and all that is clearly impossible.Didn't you read the parent post?
The NHTSA has investigated SIX of these computers and the controlling software, and found no issues.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29988064</id>
	<title>Re:problems with complexity</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256992800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Car ECU's do not have ~100 million lines of code.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Car ECU 's do not have ~ 100 million lines of code .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Car ECU's do not have ~100 million lines of code.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974700</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974380</id>
	<title>Shift to neutral</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257275880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>All these posts remind me of when my 1972 Buick, a small block 350 with a Rochester four jet and 220 HP, had a half eaten acorn left on my intake manifold by a squirrel/chipmunk trying to keep warm while enjoying a snack.  The result was a stuck throttle.  If I accelerated the acorn shell kept the throttle wide open.  Even with the gear shift on the tree I was easily able to find neutral in a split second.  Any competent driver can shift to neutral and/or turn off the car (a feature I believe is mandatory in all U.S. cars).  Sure you end up with armstrong steering and greatly reduced braking power, but they still work.  Sure I almost killed a few people, but I didn't.  I shifted to neutral.  That was 25 years ago and I still have that half eaten acorn.  With my current car (Acura) I am fully aware that I may need to shift to neutral or turn the vehicle off, and I have, just to make sure the vehicle operates as I expect.  Learn to control your vehicle or get the fuck off the road.</htmltext>
<tokenext>All these posts remind me of when my 1972 Buick , a small block 350 with a Rochester four jet and 220 HP , had a half eaten acorn left on my intake manifold by a squirrel/chipmunk trying to keep warm while enjoying a snack .
The result was a stuck throttle .
If I accelerated the acorn shell kept the throttle wide open .
Even with the gear shift on the tree I was easily able to find neutral in a split second .
Any competent driver can shift to neutral and/or turn off the car ( a feature I believe is mandatory in all U.S. cars ) . Sure you end up with armstrong steering and greatly reduced braking power , but they still work .
Sure I almost killed a few people , but I did n't .
I shifted to neutral .
That was 25 years ago and I still have that half eaten acorn .
With my current car ( Acura ) I am fully aware that I may need to shift to neutral or turn the vehicle off , and I have , just to make sure the vehicle operates as I expect .
Learn to control your vehicle or get the fuck off the road .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All these posts remind me of when my 1972 Buick, a small block 350 with a Rochester four jet and 220 HP, had a half eaten acorn left on my intake manifold by a squirrel/chipmunk trying to keep warm while enjoying a snack.
The result was a stuck throttle.
If I accelerated the acorn shell kept the throttle wide open.
Even with the gear shift on the tree I was easily able to find neutral in a split second.
Any competent driver can shift to neutral and/or turn off the car (a feature I believe is mandatory in all U.S. cars).  Sure you end up with armstrong steering and greatly reduced braking power, but they still work.
Sure I almost killed a few people, but I didn't.
I shifted to neutral.
That was 25 years ago and I still have that half eaten acorn.
With my current car (Acura) I am fully aware that I may need to shift to neutral or turn the vehicle off, and I have, just to make sure the vehicle operates as I expect.
Learn to control your vehicle or get the fuck off the road.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29998140</id>
	<title>maybe I am daft but</title>
	<author>vuffi\_raa</author>
	<datestamp>1257452280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>did the inspectors inspect the code that is driving the electronic systems or just turn it on and see if it works?</htmltext>
<tokenext>did the inspectors inspect the code that is driving the electronic systems or just turn it on and see if it works ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>did the inspectors inspect the code that is driving the electronic systems or just turn it on and see if it works?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29976992</id>
	<title>Re:OMG - I own a Nissan Sentra and it happened to</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1256999100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had this happen to my in my 1989 Nissan 240SX, but I felt the floor mat slip. Due the position in which you sit in the car, you're fairly well held in the seat, so I was able to drag the mat back with my feet. I will note that the rev limiter in Nissans seems to be implemented with a particularly brutal fuel CUT, not a reduction, and it's a MUCH harder hit than in most other vehicles. 1989 240SX, 2.4 liter 8.6:1 compression jerks like you've got a frozen diff when you hit the fuel cut; 1993 Subaru Impreza, 1.8 liter 9.5:1 compression is almost graceful. Yet they're made with many of the same parts<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had this happen to my in my 1989 Nissan 240SX , but I felt the floor mat slip .
Due the position in which you sit in the car , you 're fairly well held in the seat , so I was able to drag the mat back with my feet .
I will note that the rev limiter in Nissans seems to be implemented with a particularly brutal fuel CUT , not a reduction , and it 's a MUCH harder hit than in most other vehicles .
1989 240SX , 2.4 liter 8.6 : 1 compression jerks like you 've got a frozen diff when you hit the fuel cut ; 1993 Subaru Impreza , 1.8 liter 9.5 : 1 compression is almost graceful .
Yet they 're made with many of the same parts : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had this happen to my in my 1989 Nissan 240SX, but I felt the floor mat slip.
Due the position in which you sit in the car, you're fairly well held in the seat, so I was able to drag the mat back with my feet.
I will note that the rev limiter in Nissans seems to be implemented with a particularly brutal fuel CUT, not a reduction, and it's a MUCH harder hit than in most other vehicles.
1989 240SX, 2.4 liter 8.6:1 compression jerks like you've got a frozen diff when you hit the fuel cut; 1993 Subaru Impreza, 1.8 liter 9.5:1 compression is almost graceful.
Yet they're made with many of the same parts :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973988</id>
	<title>Re:Again?</title>
	<author>m85476585</author>
	<datestamp>1257272580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>As for hitting the brakes to slow a car down, another issue pops up, says the Times. "The ES 350 and most other modern vehicles are equipped with power-assisted brakes, which operate by drawing vacuum power from the engine. But when an engine opens to full throttle [like in a runaway car situation], the vacuum drops, and after one or two pumps of the brake pedal, the power assist feature disappears."</p></div><p>
<a href="http://spectrum.ieee.org/blog/computing/it/riskfactor/how-hard-should-it-be-to-stop-a-runaway-car" title="ieee.org">Source</a> [ieee.org]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As for hitting the brakes to slow a car down , another issue pops up , says the Times .
" The ES 350 and most other modern vehicles are equipped with power-assisted brakes , which operate by drawing vacuum power from the engine .
But when an engine opens to full throttle [ like in a runaway car situation ] , the vacuum drops , and after one or two pumps of the brake pedal , the power assist feature disappears .
" Source [ ieee.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As for hitting the brakes to slow a car down, another issue pops up, says the Times.
"The ES 350 and most other modern vehicles are equipped with power-assisted brakes, which operate by drawing vacuum power from the engine.
But when an engine opens to full throttle [like in a runaway car situation], the vacuum drops, and after one or two pumps of the brake pedal, the power assist feature disappears.
"
Source [ieee.org]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973752</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973974</id>
	<title>Re:Again?</title>
	<author>0123456</author>
	<datestamp>1257272520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Ok, repeat after me:  there is no production car on the planet with an engine capable of suddenly overpowering simple hydraulic brakes.</p></div><p>There is if the engine is running flat out and you burn out the brakes trying to stop it.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>This is the same bullshit driver error as before, just the computers playing boogeyman are a bit more advanced this time.</p></div><p>From what I've read on the subject, I believe at least one car affected in this way did have its brakes burnt out; so I suspect the bullshit is coming from a different direction.</p><p>That said, I tend to suspect floor mats are at least as likely an explanation as software faults: I remember my throttle getting stuck on something in the footwell some years ago, but fortunately it was a manual with an ignition key rather than an automatic with a 'hold down for five seconds to stop the engine' button.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ok , repeat after me : there is no production car on the planet with an engine capable of suddenly overpowering simple hydraulic brakes.There is if the engine is running flat out and you burn out the brakes trying to stop it.This is the same bullshit driver error as before , just the computers playing boogeyman are a bit more advanced this time.From what I 've read on the subject , I believe at least one car affected in this way did have its brakes burnt out ; so I suspect the bullshit is coming from a different direction.That said , I tend to suspect floor mats are at least as likely an explanation as software faults : I remember my throttle getting stuck on something in the footwell some years ago , but fortunately it was a manual with an ignition key rather than an automatic with a 'hold down for five seconds to stop the engine ' button .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ok, repeat after me:  there is no production car on the planet with an engine capable of suddenly overpowering simple hydraulic brakes.There is if the engine is running flat out and you burn out the brakes trying to stop it.This is the same bullshit driver error as before, just the computers playing boogeyman are a bit more advanced this time.From what I've read on the subject, I believe at least one car affected in this way did have its brakes burnt out; so I suspect the bullshit is coming from a different direction.That said, I tend to suspect floor mats are at least as likely an explanation as software faults: I remember my throttle getting stuck on something in the footwell some years ago, but fortunately it was a manual with an ignition key rather than an automatic with a 'hold down for five seconds to stop the engine' button.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973752</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29978122</id>
	<title>Another emergency option</title>
	<author>RealErmine</author>
	<datestamp>1257004320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My current car is a Mitsubishi with their FASTkey system that allows me to keep the key fob in my pocket and unlock the door by grabbing the handle.  The fob also acts as an electronic ignition enable while it is inside the car.</p><p>If the car is running and the key fob is moved away from the car, the engine will be disabled.</p><p>I would like to think that in an emergency situation, such as a runaway throttle event, I would have the presence of mind to chuck my keys out the window as a last resort.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My current car is a Mitsubishi with their FASTkey system that allows me to keep the key fob in my pocket and unlock the door by grabbing the handle .
The fob also acts as an electronic ignition enable while it is inside the car.If the car is running and the key fob is moved away from the car , the engine will be disabled.I would like to think that in an emergency situation , such as a runaway throttle event , I would have the presence of mind to chuck my keys out the window as a last resort .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My current car is a Mitsubishi with their FASTkey system that allows me to keep the key fob in my pocket and unlock the door by grabbing the handle.
The fob also acts as an electronic ignition enable while it is inside the car.If the car is running and the key fob is moved away from the car, the engine will be disabled.I would like to think that in an emergency situation, such as a runaway throttle event, I would have the presence of mind to chuck my keys out the window as a last resort.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974142</id>
	<title>Re:God damn it this again</title>
	<author>sarhjinian</author>
	<datestamp>1257273720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What's happened, in each case, is that the dealer or driver put winter floor mats, either OEM or aftermarket, on top of the regular carpeted mats.  What this means is that, unlike the normal mats, they're not pinned down in any way and will slide forward.  In the case of the CHP officer in the rental Lexus, the dealer slapped truck mats down on top of the "normal" Lexus mats</p><p>What happens next is easy: the mat jams the accelerator pedal.  What happens after that is that people panic, do the wrong things, and plow into people in front of them.</p><p>And what happens after that is lawyers.</p><p>There's no car you can buy today where you cannot overpower the engine with full braking force.  Try it: stand on the accelerator with your left foot for a while, then stand on the brake.  Push both down as hard as you can; your car will slow down and stop.  It won't be happy about it, but it will.  The drivers in this case didn't do that: they panicked and didn't press the brakes hard enough.</p><p>Nor did the slap the car into neutral or stop the car.  And yes, the car could have a gated shifter or a Prius-style stick.  You can also turn the car off: even with an engine-stop button, all you need to do is holdit down.  Again, in both cases it requires the driver to not panic.</p><p>There's no real way around the human factor in this. I've seen drivers who two-foot drive.  I've seen drivers who, when they're presented with a scary situation, <i>take their hands off the wheel and cover their eyes</i>.  I've been in the car when a driver's panic reaction was to flail madly at the pedals with her feet and see-saw the wheel---in that case, the car rolled.  While the floor mats can create a problem, and while Toyota could fix it by mounting them a little bit higher, you'll never truly idiot-proof a car until the car drives itself.</p><p>The solution to the likes of this are systems like stability control, ABS, Volvo or Nissan's Lane Departure Control and Mercedes' and Lexus' Pre-Safe crash mitigation systems: keep the car on-course and stable, allow the driver to maintain control and, if a crash is imminent, apply full braking force, tighten the seatbelts and pre-charge the airbags.  Oh, and call 911.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What 's happened , in each case , is that the dealer or driver put winter floor mats , either OEM or aftermarket , on top of the regular carpeted mats .
What this means is that , unlike the normal mats , they 're not pinned down in any way and will slide forward .
In the case of the CHP officer in the rental Lexus , the dealer slapped truck mats down on top of the " normal " Lexus matsWhat happens next is easy : the mat jams the accelerator pedal .
What happens after that is that people panic , do the wrong things , and plow into people in front of them.And what happens after that is lawyers.There 's no car you can buy today where you can not overpower the engine with full braking force .
Try it : stand on the accelerator with your left foot for a while , then stand on the brake .
Push both down as hard as you can ; your car will slow down and stop .
It wo n't be happy about it , but it will .
The drivers in this case did n't do that : they panicked and did n't press the brakes hard enough.Nor did the slap the car into neutral or stop the car .
And yes , the car could have a gated shifter or a Prius-style stick .
You can also turn the car off : even with an engine-stop button , all you need to do is holdit down .
Again , in both cases it requires the driver to not panic.There 's no real way around the human factor in this .
I 've seen drivers who two-foot drive .
I 've seen drivers who , when they 're presented with a scary situation , take their hands off the wheel and cover their eyes .
I 've been in the car when a driver 's panic reaction was to flail madly at the pedals with her feet and see-saw the wheel---in that case , the car rolled .
While the floor mats can create a problem , and while Toyota could fix it by mounting them a little bit higher , you 'll never truly idiot-proof a car until the car drives itself.The solution to the likes of this are systems like stability control , ABS , Volvo or Nissan 's Lane Departure Control and Mercedes ' and Lexus ' Pre-Safe crash mitigation systems : keep the car on-course and stable , allow the driver to maintain control and , if a crash is imminent , apply full braking force , tighten the seatbelts and pre-charge the airbags .
Oh , and call 911 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What's happened, in each case, is that the dealer or driver put winter floor mats, either OEM or aftermarket, on top of the regular carpeted mats.
What this means is that, unlike the normal mats, they're not pinned down in any way and will slide forward.
In the case of the CHP officer in the rental Lexus, the dealer slapped truck mats down on top of the "normal" Lexus matsWhat happens next is easy: the mat jams the accelerator pedal.
What happens after that is that people panic, do the wrong things, and plow into people in front of them.And what happens after that is lawyers.There's no car you can buy today where you cannot overpower the engine with full braking force.
Try it: stand on the accelerator with your left foot for a while, then stand on the brake.
Push both down as hard as you can; your car will slow down and stop.
It won't be happy about it, but it will.
The drivers in this case didn't do that: they panicked and didn't press the brakes hard enough.Nor did the slap the car into neutral or stop the car.
And yes, the car could have a gated shifter or a Prius-style stick.
You can also turn the car off: even with an engine-stop button, all you need to do is holdit down.
Again, in both cases it requires the driver to not panic.There's no real way around the human factor in this.
I've seen drivers who two-foot drive.
I've seen drivers who, when they're presented with a scary situation, take their hands off the wheel and cover their eyes.
I've been in the car when a driver's panic reaction was to flail madly at the pedals with her feet and see-saw the wheel---in that case, the car rolled.
While the floor mats can create a problem, and while Toyota could fix it by mounting them a little bit higher, you'll never truly idiot-proof a car until the car drives itself.The solution to the likes of this are systems like stability control, ABS, Volvo or Nissan's Lane Departure Control and Mercedes' and Lexus' Pre-Safe crash mitigation systems: keep the car on-course and stable, allow the driver to maintain control and, if a crash is imminent, apply full braking force, tighten the seatbelts and pre-charge the airbags.
Oh, and call 911.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973866</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29977372</id>
	<title>Re:Throttle Position Sensor</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257001080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had the TPS go bad on my 1998 Jeep Cherokee. This seems to be a common problem. I drove a standard transmission, so you can control the clutch if things go wonky. The fault was that the TPS disagreed with the MAP sensor. It would sometimes rev very high when it was supposed to be idling low. If it was an automatic I bet it would have surged ahead unexpectedly because I would have had it in "D".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had the TPS go bad on my 1998 Jeep Cherokee .
This seems to be a common problem .
I drove a standard transmission , so you can control the clutch if things go wonky .
The fault was that the TPS disagreed with the MAP sensor .
It would sometimes rev very high when it was supposed to be idling low .
If it was an automatic I bet it would have surged ahead unexpectedly because I would have had it in " D " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had the TPS go bad on my 1998 Jeep Cherokee.
This seems to be a common problem.
I drove a standard transmission, so you can control the clutch if things go wonky.
The fault was that the TPS disagreed with the MAP sensor.
It would sometimes rev very high when it was supposed to be idling low.
If it was an automatic I bet it would have surged ahead unexpectedly because I would have had it in "D".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974012</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974822</id>
	<title>naive explanation for the crashed lexus</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257021060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"panicked and didn't press the brakes hard enough."</p><p>well, if I was put into that situation, I guess I will use all my muscles!</p><p>The Lexus did not stop is probably due to its lacking of a &ldquo;smart-throttle&rdquo; technology which is standard on German autos such as VW or MB.</p><p>http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2009/10/toyota-recall-putting-stuck-floor-mat-survival-strategies-to-the-test.html</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" panicked and did n't press the brakes hard enough .
" well , if I was put into that situation , I guess I will use all my muscles ! The Lexus did not stop is probably due to its lacking of a    smart-throttle    technology which is standard on German autos such as VW or MB.http : //blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2009/10/toyota-recall-putting-stuck-floor-mat-survival-strategies-to-the-test.html</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"panicked and didn't press the brakes hard enough.
"well, if I was put into that situation, I guess I will use all my muscles!The Lexus did not stop is probably due to its lacking of a “smart-throttle” technology which is standard on German autos such as VW or MB.http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2009/10/toyota-recall-putting-stuck-floor-mat-survival-strategies-to-the-test.html</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973748</id>
	<title>Not a bug.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257271260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not a bug, it's a feature.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not a bug , it 's a feature .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not a bug, it's a feature.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29975630</id>
	<title>Re:problems with complexity</title>
	<author>Mike1024</author>
	<datestamp>1256985780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Premium class automobile - ~ 100 million</p></div><p>Maybe - but how many of those lines of code <i>do you suppose are capable of causing unintended acceleration?</i></p><p>Every car I'm aware of has different wires and connections for different types of traffic - so the in-car DVD entertainment system is on a different system to the electric wing mirror adjustment and keyless entry and electronic boot entry and electronic climate control, which is on a different system to the throttle, which is on a different system to the cruise control and ABS. And the foot brake is still connected by a conventional hydraulic system.</p><p>The purpose of this separation is because of the point you're making - it may not be practical to prove 100 million lines of code is bug-free, but what you <i>can</i> do is perform a lot of testing on the ~1000 line throttle-by-wire system, including testing for all of the (small number of) inputs it can get from elsewhere in the vehicle.</p><p>My point being: It's bogus to say "Throttle-by-wire must be unsafe because cars have 100 million lines of code which is more than can be validated" because most of those lines of code, by design, are isolated from the safety-critical systems, and the safety critical systems are small enough that they <i>can</i> believably be validated.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Premium class automobile - ~ 100 millionMaybe - but how many of those lines of code do you suppose are capable of causing unintended acceleration ? Every car I 'm aware of has different wires and connections for different types of traffic - so the in-car DVD entertainment system is on a different system to the electric wing mirror adjustment and keyless entry and electronic boot entry and electronic climate control , which is on a different system to the throttle , which is on a different system to the cruise control and ABS .
And the foot brake is still connected by a conventional hydraulic system.The purpose of this separation is because of the point you 're making - it may not be practical to prove 100 million lines of code is bug-free , but what you can do is perform a lot of testing on the ~ 1000 line throttle-by-wire system , including testing for all of the ( small number of ) inputs it can get from elsewhere in the vehicle.My point being : It 's bogus to say " Throttle-by-wire must be unsafe because cars have 100 million lines of code which is more than can be validated " because most of those lines of code , by design , are isolated from the safety-critical systems , and the safety critical systems are small enough that they can believably be validated .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Premium class automobile - ~ 100 millionMaybe - but how many of those lines of code do you suppose are capable of causing unintended acceleration?Every car I'm aware of has different wires and connections for different types of traffic - so the in-car DVD entertainment system is on a different system to the electric wing mirror adjustment and keyless entry and electronic boot entry and electronic climate control, which is on a different system to the throttle, which is on a different system to the cruise control and ABS.
And the foot brake is still connected by a conventional hydraulic system.The purpose of this separation is because of the point you're making - it may not be practical to prove 100 million lines of code is bug-free, but what you can do is perform a lot of testing on the ~1000 line throttle-by-wire system, including testing for all of the (small number of) inputs it can get from elsewhere in the vehicle.My point being: It's bogus to say "Throttle-by-wire must be unsafe because cars have 100 million lines of code which is more than can be validated" because most of those lines of code, by design, are isolated from the safety-critical systems, and the safety critical systems are small enough that they can believably be validated.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973576</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29977156</id>
	<title>Why not ...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257000060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why not just slam it into neutral?</p><p>~SAB</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why not just slam it into neutral ? ~ SAB</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why not just slam it into neutral?~SAB</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974990</id>
	<title>Re:God damn it this again</title>
	<author>dropadrop</author>
	<datestamp>1256979720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree... My previous car was a Toyota, and I felt like the gas would get stuck in strange way's. I thought it was broken for a long time, but I could always put it down to the carpet or the shoes I was wearing (if they where very wide). I've driven a lot of different cars during my life (+50) and never experienced it with any of the others.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree... My previous car was a Toyota , and I felt like the gas would get stuck in strange way 's .
I thought it was broken for a long time , but I could always put it down to the carpet or the shoes I was wearing ( if they where very wide ) .
I 've driven a lot of different cars during my life ( + 50 ) and never experienced it with any of the others .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree... My previous car was a Toyota, and I felt like the gas would get stuck in strange way's.
I thought it was broken for a long time, but I could always put it down to the carpet or the shoes I was wearing (if they where very wide).
I've driven a lot of different cars during my life (+50) and never experienced it with any of the others.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29978310</id>
	<title>Re:Driver error.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257004980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>About 2 months ago I flew to another city to interview for a possible transfer.  I've been driving a manual car for about the last year now, and had rented an automatic on this trip.  Depressing the clutch has become so ingrained in my muscle memory that not once but twice when I was going to coast for a short distance and brake, I instead slammed on the brake because it was a different shape than the brake in my car, and occupied some of the room that the clutch in my car did.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>About 2 months ago I flew to another city to interview for a possible transfer .
I 've been driving a manual car for about the last year now , and had rented an automatic on this trip .
Depressing the clutch has become so ingrained in my muscle memory that not once but twice when I was going to coast for a short distance and brake , I instead slammed on the brake because it was a different shape than the brake in my car , and occupied some of the room that the clutch in my car did .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>About 2 months ago I flew to another city to interview for a possible transfer.
I've been driving a manual car for about the last year now, and had rented an automatic on this trip.
Depressing the clutch has become so ingrained in my muscle memory that not once but twice when I was going to coast for a short distance and brake, I instead slammed on the brake because it was a different shape than the brake in my car, and occupied some of the room that the clutch in my car did.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973878</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29981652</id>
	<title>Re:Brakes</title>
	<author>DavidTC</author>
	<datestamp>1257015480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>A highway patrol officer should know how to take the car out of gear</i> </p><p>
Gears are controlled by computer, you cannot actually change gears, even though you think you are.</p><p>
<i>hit the brake</i> </p><p>
Which will rather quickly burn off. Which happened in this case. (A cop responding to the situation saw the brakes 'on fire', although I suspect they were just smoking.)</p><p>
<i>pull the parking break</i> </p><p>
He had that on. He rather quickly had no functioning brakes at all.</p><p>
<i>kill the ignition</i> </p><p>
He did not know how to do that, as apparently to force the ignition off you have to hold the start button down for several seconds.</p><p>
This isn't some stupid user error. This is a car that sometimes gets stuck on full throttle for whatever reason(I think the floor mat explanation is nonsense, but we'll see), which is bad enough, but people are dying because <b>people in the car can't figure how to turn it off</b> </p><p>
Like you said, a highway patrol officer <b>does</b> know what to do in a runaway car. He did what he could, and it didn't stop.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A highway patrol officer should know how to take the car out of gear Gears are controlled by computer , you can not actually change gears , even though you think you are .
hit the brake Which will rather quickly burn off .
Which happened in this case .
( A cop responding to the situation saw the brakes 'on fire ' , although I suspect they were just smoking .
) pull the parking break He had that on .
He rather quickly had no functioning brakes at all .
kill the ignition He did not know how to do that , as apparently to force the ignition off you have to hold the start button down for several seconds .
This is n't some stupid user error .
This is a car that sometimes gets stuck on full throttle for whatever reason ( I think the floor mat explanation is nonsense , but we 'll see ) , which is bad enough , but people are dying because people in the car ca n't figure how to turn it off Like you said , a highway patrol officer does know what to do in a runaway car .
He did what he could , and it did n't stop .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> A highway patrol officer should know how to take the car out of gear 
Gears are controlled by computer, you cannot actually change gears, even though you think you are.
hit the brake 
Which will rather quickly burn off.
Which happened in this case.
(A cop responding to the situation saw the brakes 'on fire', although I suspect they were just smoking.
)
pull the parking break 
He had that on.
He rather quickly had no functioning brakes at all.
kill the ignition 
He did not know how to do that, as apparently to force the ignition off you have to hold the start button down for several seconds.
This isn't some stupid user error.
This is a car that sometimes gets stuck on full throttle for whatever reason(I think the floor mat explanation is nonsense, but we'll see), which is bad enough, but people are dying because people in the car can't figure how to turn it off 
Like you said, a highway patrol officer does know what to do in a runaway car.
He did what he could, and it didn't stop.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973672</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974174</id>
	<title>Re:Brakes</title>
	<author>tixxit</author>
	<datestamp>1257274020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>But still, full brakes will at least slow down a car under full acceleration.</p></div><p>Not really. When brakes get really hot, the pad material starts to turn directly into gas and causes the pads to "float." The effect is that your brakes don't work at all. If you are going very fast and are slamming on the brakes, they'll start to float from the heat. After that your brakes are useless.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>But still , full brakes will at least slow down a car under full acceleration.Not really .
When brakes get really hot , the pad material starts to turn directly into gas and causes the pads to " float .
" The effect is that your brakes do n't work at all .
If you are going very fast and are slamming on the brakes , they 'll start to float from the heat .
After that your brakes are useless .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But still, full brakes will at least slow down a car under full acceleration.Not really.
When brakes get really hot, the pad material starts to turn directly into gas and causes the pads to "float.
" The effect is that your brakes don't work at all.
If you are going very fast and are slamming on the brakes, they'll start to float from the heat.
After that your brakes are useless.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973672</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29975550</id>
	<title>Re:God damn it this again</title>
	<author>WaXHeLL</author>
	<datestamp>1256984940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My Volkswagen GTI is drive by wire, and actually when both the accelerator and brake are held down at the same time, power is cut to the engine.  I would expect most (properly built) drive by wire systems to have such a safety feature.</p><p>It means you can't left foot brake, but most people don't left foot brake in daily driving.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My Volkswagen GTI is drive by wire , and actually when both the accelerator and brake are held down at the same time , power is cut to the engine .
I would expect most ( properly built ) drive by wire systems to have such a safety feature.It means you ca n't left foot brake , but most people do n't left foot brake in daily driving .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My Volkswagen GTI is drive by wire, and actually when both the accelerator and brake are held down at the same time, power is cut to the engine.
I would expect most (properly built) drive by wire systems to have such a safety feature.It means you can't left foot brake, but most people don't left foot brake in daily driving.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29978974</id>
	<title>Re:Throttle Position Sensor</title>
	<author>minchazo</author>
	<datestamp>1257007200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think you need to write a TPS report on this issue. Don't forget the cover sheet.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you need to write a TPS report on this issue .
Do n't forget the cover sheet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you need to write a TPS report on this issue.
Don't forget the cover sheet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974012</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29975664</id>
	<title>Re:problems with complexity</title>
	<author>BikeHelmet</author>
	<datestamp>1256986080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>100 million? They need a more maintainable language!</p><p>And here I considered 500k to be quite large.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>100 million ?
They need a more maintainable language ! And here I considered 500k to be quite large .
: /</tokentext>
<sentencetext>100 million?
They need a more maintainable language!And here I considered 500k to be quite large.
:/</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973576</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974628</id>
	<title>Re:Brakes</title>
	<author>frozentier</author>
	<datestamp>1257278280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The fact that non of those things were done, or they didn't work suggest to me that it was indeed the floor mats trapping the pedal when they floored it to test acceleration.</p><p>But still, full brakes will at least slow down a car under full acceleration.</p></div><p>Who floors a car to test acceleration in any area other than an open road where there is no obstacles in front of them?  You don't "floor it" somewhere that you might have to stop immediately.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The fact that non of those things were done , or they did n't work suggest to me that it was indeed the floor mats trapping the pedal when they floored it to test acceleration.But still , full brakes will at least slow down a car under full acceleration.Who floors a car to test acceleration in any area other than an open road where there is no obstacles in front of them ?
You do n't " floor it " somewhere that you might have to stop immediately .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The fact that non of those things were done, or they didn't work suggest to me that it was indeed the floor mats trapping the pedal when they floored it to test acceleration.But still, full brakes will at least slow down a car under full acceleration.Who floors a car to test acceleration in any area other than an open road where there is no obstacles in front of them?
You don't "floor it" somewhere that you might have to stop immediately.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973672</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29976636</id>
	<title>Re:problems with complexity</title>
	<author>ei4anb</author>
	<datestamp>1256996280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Good articles in Spectrum, thanks for the link. I have a background in Engineering and understand how my car works (both my manual and my wife's Prius) but I had forgotten how the vacuum assisted brakes would behave at very high engine RPM so I found this very interesting: <p>
"The ES 350 and most other modern vehicles are equipped with power-assisted brakes, which operate by drawing vacuum power from the engine. But when an engine opens to full throttle [like in a runaway car situation], the vacuum drops, and after one or two pumps of the brake pedal, the power assist feature disappears."</p><p>
So, in a runaway Prius you have to depress the engine stop button (for &gt;3 seconds) and the brake pedal and hold them pressed without releasing or 'pumping', oh and don't panic at the same time!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Good articles in Spectrum , thanks for the link .
I have a background in Engineering and understand how my car works ( both my manual and my wife 's Prius ) but I had forgotten how the vacuum assisted brakes would behave at very high engine RPM so I found this very interesting : " The ES 350 and most other modern vehicles are equipped with power-assisted brakes , which operate by drawing vacuum power from the engine .
But when an engine opens to full throttle [ like in a runaway car situation ] , the vacuum drops , and after one or two pumps of the brake pedal , the power assist feature disappears .
" So , in a runaway Prius you have to depress the engine stop button ( for &gt; 3 seconds ) and the brake pedal and hold them pressed without releasing or 'pumping ' , oh and do n't panic at the same time !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good articles in Spectrum, thanks for the link.
I have a background in Engineering and understand how my car works (both my manual and my wife's Prius) but I had forgotten how the vacuum assisted brakes would behave at very high engine RPM so I found this very interesting: 
"The ES 350 and most other modern vehicles are equipped with power-assisted brakes, which operate by drawing vacuum power from the engine.
But when an engine opens to full throttle [like in a runaway car situation], the vacuum drops, and after one or two pumps of the brake pedal, the power assist feature disappears.
"
So, in a runaway Prius you have to depress the engine stop button (for &gt;3 seconds) and the brake pedal and hold them pressed without releasing or 'pumping', oh and don't panic at the same time!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973576</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29980004</id>
	<title>It's The Cruise Control</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257010380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do the accident related automobiles have cruise control?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do the accident related automobiles have cruise control ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do the accident related automobiles have cruise control?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29978344</id>
	<title>Re:Throttle Position Sensor</title>
	<author>jaraxle</author>
	<datestamp>1257005100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The fact is that when some people panic they freeze up and are unable to do anything else. </p></div><p>You're probably exactly right here.  I consider myself a fairly intelligent driver (perhaps I get a bit too aggressive/angry towards people who drive like morons) that keeps a clear head and drives safely.  However, trying a dirtbike for the first time this summer, I wound up getting into a very embarrassing accident simply because I was unfamiliar and obviously not completely comfortable.</p><p>I hopped on and, not realizing how touchy it was, pulled a bit on the accelerator handle while keeping my left hand over the brake just in case.  However, the bike took off and I sort of got knocked off a bit.  Despite having my left hand over the brake ready to pull on it, I wound up pulling harder on the accelerator instead, running myself and the bike into a chain link fence, then throwing myself over the bike.  Nothing broken or bruised but my ego, but still... it's easy for even intelligent drivers to make idiotic mistakes like this when they're not fully comfortable with their situation.</p><p>~jaraxle</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The fact is that when some people panic they freeze up and are unable to do anything else .
You 're probably exactly right here .
I consider myself a fairly intelligent driver ( perhaps I get a bit too aggressive/angry towards people who drive like morons ) that keeps a clear head and drives safely .
However , trying a dirtbike for the first time this summer , I wound up getting into a very embarrassing accident simply because I was unfamiliar and obviously not completely comfortable.I hopped on and , not realizing how touchy it was , pulled a bit on the accelerator handle while keeping my left hand over the brake just in case .
However , the bike took off and I sort of got knocked off a bit .
Despite having my left hand over the brake ready to pull on it , I wound up pulling harder on the accelerator instead , running myself and the bike into a chain link fence , then throwing myself over the bike .
Nothing broken or bruised but my ego , but still... it 's easy for even intelligent drivers to make idiotic mistakes like this when they 're not fully comfortable with their situation. ~ jaraxle</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The fact is that when some people panic they freeze up and are unable to do anything else.
You're probably exactly right here.
I consider myself a fairly intelligent driver (perhaps I get a bit too aggressive/angry towards people who drive like morons) that keeps a clear head and drives safely.
However, trying a dirtbike for the first time this summer, I wound up getting into a very embarrassing accident simply because I was unfamiliar and obviously not completely comfortable.I hopped on and, not realizing how touchy it was, pulled a bit on the accelerator handle while keeping my left hand over the brake just in case.
However, the bike took off and I sort of got knocked off a bit.
Despite having my left hand over the brake ready to pull on it, I wound up pulling harder on the accelerator instead, running myself and the bike into a chain link fence, then throwing myself over the bike.
Nothing broken or bruised but my ego, but still... it's easy for even intelligent drivers to make idiotic mistakes like this when they're not fully comfortable with their situation.~jaraxle
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974012</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29977736</id>
	<title>Re:God damn it this again</title>
	<author>dfenstrate</author>
	<datestamp>1257002760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That reminds me of an instance when I was a teenager, and I was letting my unlicensed friend drive.</p><p>It was at night, on some backroads, and a rabbit ran across the road in front of us. She panic-braked and cut the wheel to the side.</p><p>We didn't crash, but it was a dangerous over-reaction. I told her right then and there that if a little furry creature runs in front of us again, she must accept that she will kill it, because our safety and the value of the car outweighs the critter's life. Teenage girls must accept that the lives of various woodland creatures are forfeit so that they can drive.</p><p>She kept a level head after that.</p><p>Now somewhat ironically, accepting this makes it less likely you will actually kill a furry little woodland creature. If you have accepted it's death as a premise of driving, then you needn't panic when a squirrel runs across the road- and you can calmly make small adjustments around the critter.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That reminds me of an instance when I was a teenager , and I was letting my unlicensed friend drive.It was at night , on some backroads , and a rabbit ran across the road in front of us .
She panic-braked and cut the wheel to the side.We did n't crash , but it was a dangerous over-reaction .
I told her right then and there that if a little furry creature runs in front of us again , she must accept that she will kill it , because our safety and the value of the car outweighs the critter 's life .
Teenage girls must accept that the lives of various woodland creatures are forfeit so that they can drive.She kept a level head after that.Now somewhat ironically , accepting this makes it less likely you will actually kill a furry little woodland creature .
If you have accepted it 's death as a premise of driving , then you need n't panic when a squirrel runs across the road- and you can calmly make small adjustments around the critter .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That reminds me of an instance when I was a teenager, and I was letting my unlicensed friend drive.It was at night, on some backroads, and a rabbit ran across the road in front of us.
She panic-braked and cut the wheel to the side.We didn't crash, but it was a dangerous over-reaction.
I told her right then and there that if a little furry creature runs in front of us again, she must accept that she will kill it, because our safety and the value of the car outweighs the critter's life.
Teenage girls must accept that the lives of various woodland creatures are forfeit so that they can drive.She kept a level head after that.Now somewhat ironically, accepting this makes it less likely you will actually kill a furry little woodland creature.
If you have accepted it's death as a premise of driving, then you needn't panic when a squirrel runs across the road- and you can calmly make small adjustments around the critter.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974478</id>
	<title>I've had the problem</title>
	<author>Xerfas</author>
	<datestamp>1257276840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>This year I've been driving 4 different Toyota Yaris and 2 Toyota Auris from 2009. The floor mat stuck on the gas pedal on all 6 cars which can be a bit annoying when driving 75 mph on the freeway and some idiot is stuck in 70-72 mph and you can't pass him because you got someone else driving past in the outer lane. Just breaking while the gas pedal is stuck is no fun. First time this happened I almost panicked, but I managed to remove the floor mat in time.
So I wouldn't call this an electrical glitch, you just need to move the floor mat back 2-3 inches and this doesn't happen.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This year I 've been driving 4 different Toyota Yaris and 2 Toyota Auris from 2009 .
The floor mat stuck on the gas pedal on all 6 cars which can be a bit annoying when driving 75 mph on the freeway and some idiot is stuck in 70-72 mph and you ca n't pass him because you got someone else driving past in the outer lane .
Just breaking while the gas pedal is stuck is no fun .
First time this happened I almost panicked , but I managed to remove the floor mat in time .
So I would n't call this an electrical glitch , you just need to move the floor mat back 2-3 inches and this does n't happen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This year I've been driving 4 different Toyota Yaris and 2 Toyota Auris from 2009.
The floor mat stuck on the gas pedal on all 6 cars which can be a bit annoying when driving 75 mph on the freeway and some idiot is stuck in 70-72 mph and you can't pass him because you got someone else driving past in the outer lane.
Just breaking while the gas pedal is stuck is no fun.
First time this happened I almost panicked, but I managed to remove the floor mat in time.
So I wouldn't call this an electrical glitch, you just need to move the floor mat back 2-3 inches and this doesn't happen.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974700</id>
	<title>Re:problems with complexity</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257019800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>F-22 raptor - 1.7 million lines of code
F-35 joint strike fighter - 5.7 million
Boeing 787 - 6.5 million
Premium class automobile - ~ 100 million</p></div>
</blockquote><p>F-22, F-35, Boeing - flown by professionals <br>
Premium class auto driven by morons
</p><p>Two different things. Different environments and different safety measures</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>F-22 raptor - 1.7 million lines of code F-35 joint strike fighter - 5.7 million Boeing 787 - 6.5 million Premium class automobile - ~ 100 million F-22 , F-35 , Boeing - flown by professionals Premium class auto driven by morons Two different things .
Different environments and different safety measures</tokentext>
<sentencetext>F-22 raptor - 1.7 million lines of code
F-35 joint strike fighter - 5.7 million
Boeing 787 - 6.5 million
Premium class automobile - ~ 100 million
F-22, F-35, Boeing - flown by professionals 
Premium class auto driven by morons
Two different things.
Different environments and different safety measures
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973576</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29987474</id>
	<title>Morons</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256990340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>"She was driving her Toyota Prius outside Denver, CO when she says it suddenly shot up to 90 miles an hour......."  In a Prius??? Suddenly??? I think not.

There's the ignition switch....the little thingy that the shiny metal piece goes into to turn the car on and off.  TURN IT OFF!
There's the emergency brake....PULL IT!
There's this thing called the gear shift, PUT IT IN NEUTRAL or if necessary, slam it into park.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" She was driving her Toyota Prius outside Denver , CO when she says it suddenly shot up to 90 miles an hour....... " In a Prius ? ? ?
Suddenly ? ? ? I think not .
There 's the ignition switch....the little thingy that the shiny metal piece goes into to turn the car on and off .
TURN IT OFF !
There 's the emergency brake....PULL IT !
There 's this thing called the gear shift , PUT IT IN NEUTRAL or if necessary , slam it into park .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"She was driving her Toyota Prius outside Denver, CO when she says it suddenly shot up to 90 miles an hour......."  In a Prius???
Suddenly??? I think not.
There's the ignition switch....the little thingy that the shiny metal piece goes into to turn the car on and off.
TURN IT OFF!
There's the emergency brake....PULL IT!
There's this thing called the gear shift, PUT IT IN NEUTRAL or if necessary, slam it into park.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29976870</id>
	<title>Re:God damn it this again</title>
	<author>kannibal\_klown</author>
	<datestamp>1256998380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There's no real way around the human factor in this. I've seen drivers who two-foot drive.  I've seen drivers who, when they're presented with a scary situation, <i>take their hands off the wheel and cover their eyes</i>.  I've been in the car when a driver's panic reaction was to flail madly at the pedals with her feet and see-saw the wheel---in that case, the car rolled.  While the floor mats can create a problem, and while Toyota could fix it by mounting them a little bit higher, you'll never truly idiot-proof a car until the car drives itself.</p><p>The solution to the likes of this are systems like stability control, ABS, Volvo or Nissan's Lane Departure Control and Mercedes' and Lexus' Pre-Safe crash mitigation systems: keep the car on-course and stable, allow the driver to maintain control and, if a crash is imminent, apply full braking force, tighten the seatbelts and pre-charge the airbags.  Oh, and call 911.</p></div><p>I had a problem with the throttle-by-wire on my '06 Cadillac.</p><p>After I'd owned it for a few months, the engine throttle/power would start fluxuating heavily upon acceleration.  IE, alternating between 1k and 4k RPM every second.</p><p>It took them forever to diagnose the problem; they had the car for a total of 9-12 days and refused to believe it was mechanical or electrical.  They thought it was user error.  The sad thing is, it was VERY reproducable yet they refused to acknowledge it.  So long as you drove the thing before the temp-gauge normalized at 1/2 way you could do it 100\% of the time; so from a cold start you had 5-10 minutes to reproduce it.</p><p>On the last time they looked it at (which if they failed would qualify as lemon law) they had an engineer from the headquarters come.  He found that the accelerator was faulty and sending bad signals.  Apparently it would just start sending bad data to the computer.  They replaced the accelerator and it was all fixed.</p><p>9-12 days in the shop spread over a month, and it was only under the threat of "lemon law" did they acknowledge there was a problem.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's no real way around the human factor in this .
I 've seen drivers who two-foot drive .
I 've seen drivers who , when they 're presented with a scary situation , take their hands off the wheel and cover their eyes .
I 've been in the car when a driver 's panic reaction was to flail madly at the pedals with her feet and see-saw the wheel---in that case , the car rolled .
While the floor mats can create a problem , and while Toyota could fix it by mounting them a little bit higher , you 'll never truly idiot-proof a car until the car drives itself.The solution to the likes of this are systems like stability control , ABS , Volvo or Nissan 's Lane Departure Control and Mercedes ' and Lexus ' Pre-Safe crash mitigation systems : keep the car on-course and stable , allow the driver to maintain control and , if a crash is imminent , apply full braking force , tighten the seatbelts and pre-charge the airbags .
Oh , and call 911.I had a problem with the throttle-by-wire on my '06 Cadillac.After I 'd owned it for a few months , the engine throttle/power would start fluxuating heavily upon acceleration .
IE , alternating between 1k and 4k RPM every second.It took them forever to diagnose the problem ; they had the car for a total of 9-12 days and refused to believe it was mechanical or electrical .
They thought it was user error .
The sad thing is , it was VERY reproducable yet they refused to acknowledge it .
So long as you drove the thing before the temp-gauge normalized at 1/2 way you could do it 100 \ % of the time ; so from a cold start you had 5-10 minutes to reproduce it.On the last time they looked it at ( which if they failed would qualify as lemon law ) they had an engineer from the headquarters come .
He found that the accelerator was faulty and sending bad signals .
Apparently it would just start sending bad data to the computer .
They replaced the accelerator and it was all fixed.9-12 days in the shop spread over a month , and it was only under the threat of " lemon law " did they acknowledge there was a problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's no real way around the human factor in this.
I've seen drivers who two-foot drive.
I've seen drivers who, when they're presented with a scary situation, take their hands off the wheel and cover their eyes.
I've been in the car when a driver's panic reaction was to flail madly at the pedals with her feet and see-saw the wheel---in that case, the car rolled.
While the floor mats can create a problem, and while Toyota could fix it by mounting them a little bit higher, you'll never truly idiot-proof a car until the car drives itself.The solution to the likes of this are systems like stability control, ABS, Volvo or Nissan's Lane Departure Control and Mercedes' and Lexus' Pre-Safe crash mitigation systems: keep the car on-course and stable, allow the driver to maintain control and, if a crash is imminent, apply full braking force, tighten the seatbelts and pre-charge the airbags.
Oh, and call 911.I had a problem with the throttle-by-wire on my '06 Cadillac.After I'd owned it for a few months, the engine throttle/power would start fluxuating heavily upon acceleration.
IE, alternating between 1k and 4k RPM every second.It took them forever to diagnose the problem; they had the car for a total of 9-12 days and refused to believe it was mechanical or electrical.
They thought it was user error.
The sad thing is, it was VERY reproducable yet they refused to acknowledge it.
So long as you drove the thing before the temp-gauge normalized at 1/2 way you could do it 100\% of the time; so from a cold start you had 5-10 minutes to reproduce it.On the last time they looked it at (which if they failed would qualify as lemon law) they had an engineer from the headquarters come.
He found that the accelerator was faulty and sending bad signals.
Apparently it would just start sending bad data to the computer.
They replaced the accelerator and it was all fixed.9-12 days in the shop spread over a month, and it was only under the threat of "lemon law" did they acknowledge there was a problem.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974138</id>
	<title>Sure about that?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257273660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have a 2007 Sport RAV4 that I bought for my wife. I am usually driving rear-wheel-drive vehicles with stick or auto, so this is the first front-wheel-drive I have owned.</p><p>Forget about the slight difference in handling, I have noticed a very odd issue with both the "fully electric" power steering and throttle. On at least several occassions where I was accelerating the vehicle suddenly surged forward as though the throttle had been floored. It was totally shocking each time it occurred to me. It had nothing to do with braking because my foot was on the accelerator the whole time and wasn't trying to slow down.</p><p>The first time it happened to my wife she almost lost control of the car. I was very upset with her and asked what the hell she was doing, she said the car just surged on it's own. I didn't believe her until it happened to me several times. I have also seen a couple very strange transmission shifts that occurred.</p><p>Seems like some buggy ECM logic to me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a 2007 Sport RAV4 that I bought for my wife .
I am usually driving rear-wheel-drive vehicles with stick or auto , so this is the first front-wheel-drive I have owned.Forget about the slight difference in handling , I have noticed a very odd issue with both the " fully electric " power steering and throttle .
On at least several occassions where I was accelerating the vehicle suddenly surged forward as though the throttle had been floored .
It was totally shocking each time it occurred to me .
It had nothing to do with braking because my foot was on the accelerator the whole time and was n't trying to slow down.The first time it happened to my wife she almost lost control of the car .
I was very upset with her and asked what the hell she was doing , she said the car just surged on it 's own .
I did n't believe her until it happened to me several times .
I have also seen a couple very strange transmission shifts that occurred.Seems like some buggy ECM logic to me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a 2007 Sport RAV4 that I bought for my wife.
I am usually driving rear-wheel-drive vehicles with stick or auto, so this is the first front-wheel-drive I have owned.Forget about the slight difference in handling, I have noticed a very odd issue with both the "fully electric" power steering and throttle.
On at least several occassions where I was accelerating the vehicle suddenly surged forward as though the throttle had been floored.
It was totally shocking each time it occurred to me.
It had nothing to do with braking because my foot was on the accelerator the whole time and wasn't trying to slow down.The first time it happened to my wife she almost lost control of the car.
I was very upset with her and asked what the hell she was doing, she said the car just surged on it's own.
I didn't believe her until it happened to me several times.
I have also seen a couple very strange transmission shifts that occurred.Seems like some buggy ECM logic to me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973562</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973576</id>
	<title>problems with complexity</title>
	<author>skydude\_20</author>
	<datestamp>1257270300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>F-22 raptor - 1.7 million lines of code<br>
F-35 joint strike fighter - 5.7 million<br>
Boeing 787 - 6.5 million <br>
Premium class automobile - ~ 100 million<br>
<br>
IEEE Spectrum: "How hard should it be to stop a runaway luxury car?"  <a href="http://spectrum.ieee.org/blog/computing/it/riskfactor/how-hard-should-it-be-to-stop-a-runaway-car" title="ieee.org">http://spectrum.ieee.org/blog/computing/it/riskfactor/how-hard-should-it-be-to-stop-a-runaway-car</a> [ieee.org] <br>
<br>
IEEE Spectrum: "This car runs on code" <a href="http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/advanced-cars/this-car-runs-on-code" title="ieee.org">http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/advanced-cars/this-car-runs-on-code</a> [ieee.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>F-22 raptor - 1.7 million lines of code F-35 joint strike fighter - 5.7 million Boeing 787 - 6.5 million Premium class automobile - ~ 100 million IEEE Spectrum : " How hard should it be to stop a runaway luxury car ?
" http : //spectrum.ieee.org/blog/computing/it/riskfactor/how-hard-should-it-be-to-stop-a-runaway-car [ ieee.org ] IEEE Spectrum : " This car runs on code " http : //www.spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/advanced-cars/this-car-runs-on-code [ ieee.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>F-22 raptor - 1.7 million lines of code
F-35 joint strike fighter - 5.7 million
Boeing 787 - 6.5 million 
Premium class automobile - ~ 100 million

IEEE Spectrum: "How hard should it be to stop a runaway luxury car?
"  http://spectrum.ieee.org/blog/computing/it/riskfactor/how-hard-should-it-be-to-stop-a-runaway-car [ieee.org] 

IEEE Spectrum: "This car runs on code" http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/advanced-cars/this-car-runs-on-code [ieee.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29979640</id>
	<title>Floormat Hook?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257009300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do we know if the toyotas have the "floor mat hook"? so the mat does not move....</p><p>I had the same problem with my old saturn (01 SC1) with the throttle sticking. POS CAR!</p><p>i have a honda (06 accord 5speed), wire throttle.. no issue yet..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do we know if the toyotas have the " floor mat hook " ?
so the mat does not move....I had the same problem with my old saturn ( 01 SC1 ) with the throttle sticking .
POS CAR ! i have a honda ( 06 accord 5speed ) , wire throttle.. no issue yet. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do we know if the toyotas have the "floor mat hook"?
so the mat does not move....I had the same problem with my old saturn (01 SC1) with the throttle sticking.
POS CAR!i have a honda (06 accord 5speed), wire throttle.. no issue yet..</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29981878</id>
	<title>Not all situations are driver error.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257016080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Doesn't anyone remember the issue with Ford vehicles accelerating out of control back in the '90's ?<br>The problem was EVENTUALLY traced to the design of the wiring harness.<br>The wiring harness was not supported correctly and eventually some of the wires would get bare spots. And whenever there was enough moisture in the air; due to either rain or simply high humidity. The cruise control would accelerate the car.</p><p>Also; I once had a VW diesel Dasher that would accelerate wildly on it's own.<br>The issue turned out to be that particular year had a problem with uneven pressure in the cylinder head. Causing engine oil to leak past the rings.<br>When enough engine oil entered the combustion chamber; the car would then run and accelerate uncontrollably on that oil.</p><p>So DON'T dismiss all the cases as driver error.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does n't anyone remember the issue with Ford vehicles accelerating out of control back in the '90 's ? The problem was EVENTUALLY traced to the design of the wiring harness.The wiring harness was not supported correctly and eventually some of the wires would get bare spots .
And whenever there was enough moisture in the air ; due to either rain or simply high humidity .
The cruise control would accelerate the car.Also ; I once had a VW diesel Dasher that would accelerate wildly on it 's own.The issue turned out to be that particular year had a problem with uneven pressure in the cylinder head .
Causing engine oil to leak past the rings.When enough engine oil entered the combustion chamber ; the car would then run and accelerate uncontrollably on that oil.So DO N'T dismiss all the cases as driver error .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Doesn't anyone remember the issue with Ford vehicles accelerating out of control back in the '90's ?The problem was EVENTUALLY traced to the design of the wiring harness.The wiring harness was not supported correctly and eventually some of the wires would get bare spots.
And whenever there was enough moisture in the air; due to either rain or simply high humidity.
The cruise control would accelerate the car.Also; I once had a VW diesel Dasher that would accelerate wildly on it's own.The issue turned out to be that particular year had a problem with uneven pressure in the cylinder head.
Causing engine oil to leak past the rings.When enough engine oil entered the combustion chamber; the car would then run and accelerate uncontrollably on that oil.So DON'T dismiss all the cases as driver error.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29983104</id>
	<title>Revise their new "forward" slogan?</title>
	<author>sethstorm</author>
	<datestamp>1257019440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Toyota: Moving you forward into the next traffic jam. Whether you like it or not.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Toyota : Moving you forward into the next traffic jam .
Whether you like it or not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Toyota: Moving you forward into the next traffic jam.
Whether you like it or not.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29980908</id>
	<title>Floor mat stuck on my Audi</title>
	<author>DomNF15</author>
	<datestamp>1257013200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So, the situation that has been described with the Toyota/Lexus cars has happened to me at least a handful of times with my A4.  When I notice the car continuing to accelerate, which usually takes about a second or so, I immediately depress the clutch, let the engine "redline", which really means it hits the fuel cutoff, and yank the floor mat back.  I think driving a manual does make you more aware of what's going on.  At the very least it requires more attention and physical coordination/finesse.  Maybe if I drove an automatic, I wouldn't realize I had to pull the lever into Neutral, or at least not as quickly.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So , the situation that has been described with the Toyota/Lexus cars has happened to me at least a handful of times with my A4 .
When I notice the car continuing to accelerate , which usually takes about a second or so , I immediately depress the clutch , let the engine " redline " , which really means it hits the fuel cutoff , and yank the floor mat back .
I think driving a manual does make you more aware of what 's going on .
At the very least it requires more attention and physical coordination/finesse .
Maybe if I drove an automatic , I would n't realize I had to pull the lever into Neutral , or at least not as quickly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, the situation that has been described with the Toyota/Lexus cars has happened to me at least a handful of times with my A4.
When I notice the car continuing to accelerate, which usually takes about a second or so, I immediately depress the clutch, let the engine "redline", which really means it hits the fuel cutoff, and yank the floor mat back.
I think driving a manual does make you more aware of what's going on.
At the very least it requires more attention and physical coordination/finesse.
Maybe if I drove an automatic, I wouldn't realize I had to pull the lever into Neutral, or at least not as quickly.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974462</id>
	<title>OMG - I own a Nissan Sentra and it happened to me.</title>
	<author>crispytwo</author>
	<datestamp>1257276720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The government &amp; Toyota are probably right about the floor mat. But that's what recalls are for.</p><p>This is exactly what happened to me and I was heading to a cliff - 3rd gear - floored and I had the presence of mind to turn off the ignition. Seriously - I was terrified.</p><p>Picture this, you turn a corner, accelerate, change gears, and suddenly you are going around 80 Km/h with about 1 block to the edge of cliff and a 90 degree turn on a residential street with a cliff  in front of you.</p><p>I had the time to turn off the ignition and jerk to a stop... BTW taking it out of gear under full acceleration is not simple either. I can hear the vacuum cleaner sound of the engine too - it was crazy. However, when the engine red-lines - it kill the accelerator for a second and then lets it restart... grabbing the ****ing anything with that is un-fun.</p><p>AFTER it stopped I could diagnose the problem being that the driver's side floor mat came off the hook that is supposed to hold it in place and inched up over the gas-pedal... thus couldn't un-press it until the carpet was pulled back.</p><p>Since there was a slot in the peg that holds the carpet in place, I took a handy dandy twist tie and wrapped the peg with the carpet in place preventing the carpet from EVER popping off that peg. Since then - no scary shit.</p><p>Toyota and Nissan should fix this problem - at their cost - and it should be a recall. - After all - it's a 10 cent fix - a peg that has a simple spring latch on top would fix it with no problems. Picture hanger anchors have used that technique for decades now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The government &amp; Toyota are probably right about the floor mat .
But that 's what recalls are for.This is exactly what happened to me and I was heading to a cliff - 3rd gear - floored and I had the presence of mind to turn off the ignition .
Seriously - I was terrified.Picture this , you turn a corner , accelerate , change gears , and suddenly you are going around 80 Km/h with about 1 block to the edge of cliff and a 90 degree turn on a residential street with a cliff in front of you.I had the time to turn off the ignition and jerk to a stop... BTW taking it out of gear under full acceleration is not simple either .
I can hear the vacuum cleaner sound of the engine too - it was crazy .
However , when the engine red-lines - it kill the accelerator for a second and then lets it restart... grabbing the * * * * ing anything with that is un-fun.AFTER it stopped I could diagnose the problem being that the driver 's side floor mat came off the hook that is supposed to hold it in place and inched up over the gas-pedal... thus could n't un-press it until the carpet was pulled back.Since there was a slot in the peg that holds the carpet in place , I took a handy dandy twist tie and wrapped the peg with the carpet in place preventing the carpet from EVER popping off that peg .
Since then - no scary shit.Toyota and Nissan should fix this problem - at their cost - and it should be a recall .
- After all - it 's a 10 cent fix - a peg that has a simple spring latch on top would fix it with no problems .
Picture hanger anchors have used that technique for decades now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The government &amp; Toyota are probably right about the floor mat.
But that's what recalls are for.This is exactly what happened to me and I was heading to a cliff - 3rd gear - floored and I had the presence of mind to turn off the ignition.
Seriously - I was terrified.Picture this, you turn a corner, accelerate, change gears, and suddenly you are going around 80 Km/h with about 1 block to the edge of cliff and a 90 degree turn on a residential street with a cliff  in front of you.I had the time to turn off the ignition and jerk to a stop... BTW taking it out of gear under full acceleration is not simple either.
I can hear the vacuum cleaner sound of the engine too - it was crazy.
However, when the engine red-lines - it kill the accelerator for a second and then lets it restart... grabbing the ****ing anything with that is un-fun.AFTER it stopped I could diagnose the problem being that the driver's side floor mat came off the hook that is supposed to hold it in place and inched up over the gas-pedal... thus couldn't un-press it until the carpet was pulled back.Since there was a slot in the peg that holds the carpet in place, I took a handy dandy twist tie and wrapped the peg with the carpet in place preventing the carpet from EVER popping off that peg.
Since then - no scary shit.Toyota and Nissan should fix this problem - at their cost - and it should be a recall.
- After all - it's a 10 cent fix - a peg that has a simple spring latch on top would fix it with no problems.
Picture hanger anchors have used that technique for decades now.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973716</id>
	<title>My 2c</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257271020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I label drivers on the road among some of the following catagories, Mini Van drivers, Hyundia / Kia drivers, and Toyota drivers.</p><p>All of these groups I consider highly dangerous, and avoid them at all costs. Also it provides me with much entertainment when my suspicious are reinforced, usually on a daily basis.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I label drivers on the road among some of the following catagories , Mini Van drivers , Hyundia / Kia drivers , and Toyota drivers.All of these groups I consider highly dangerous , and avoid them at all costs .
Also it provides me with much entertainment when my suspicious are reinforced , usually on a daily basis .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I label drivers on the road among some of the following catagories, Mini Van drivers, Hyundia / Kia drivers, and Toyota drivers.All of these groups I consider highly dangerous, and avoid them at all costs.
Also it provides me with much entertainment when my suspicious are reinforced, usually on a daily basis.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29976068</id>
	<title>This happens in older cars, too.</title>
	<author>GWRedDragon</author>
	<datestamp>1256990400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's not just 'drive by wire' vehicles. At one point while driving a 1991 model car, I pressed the accelerator hard to get up a hill. When I let off the pedal, the cable/pedal must have gotten stuck because the vehicle kept accelerating (now down the hill). In retrospect, I should probably have switched it to neutral, but at the time my immediate snap response was to turn off the ignition key. Despite the loss of power steering and braking, it was quite effective.<br>
<br>
It seems to me that if people are hitting the vehicle in front of them because of unexpected acceleration, they either are very bad at making quick decisions or they do not maintain a safe following distance while driving (a common problem these days).</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not just 'drive by wire ' vehicles .
At one point while driving a 1991 model car , I pressed the accelerator hard to get up a hill .
When I let off the pedal , the cable/pedal must have gotten stuck because the vehicle kept accelerating ( now down the hill ) .
In retrospect , I should probably have switched it to neutral , but at the time my immediate snap response was to turn off the ignition key .
Despite the loss of power steering and braking , it was quite effective .
It seems to me that if people are hitting the vehicle in front of them because of unexpected acceleration , they either are very bad at making quick decisions or they do not maintain a safe following distance while driving ( a common problem these days ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not just 'drive by wire' vehicles.
At one point while driving a 1991 model car, I pressed the accelerator hard to get up a hill.
When I let off the pedal, the cable/pedal must have gotten stuck because the vehicle kept accelerating (now down the hill).
In retrospect, I should probably have switched it to neutral, but at the time my immediate snap response was to turn off the ignition key.
Despite the loss of power steering and braking, it was quite effective.
It seems to me that if people are hitting the vehicle in front of them because of unexpected acceleration, they either are very bad at making quick decisions or they do not maintain a safe following distance while driving (a common problem these days).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29977138</id>
	<title>1998 Volkswagen Jetta TDI</title>
	<author>misfit815</author>
	<datestamp>1257000000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had a similar incident happen on my '98 Jetta. I was on an interstate with the cruise control on, and it decided to start accelerating for no reason. The best part is that this was one isolated incident for a car in which I logged over 200k miles. By the way, that was an awesome car. I could drive like an old lady and get 45mpg, or (typically) like Mario Andretti and *still* get 43mpg.</p><p>In response to the claims of tinkering with the speedometer, both my '98 Jetta and my '08 Mazda3 have always reported the exact same speed on the speedometer as those roadside radar detectors.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had a similar incident happen on my '98 Jetta .
I was on an interstate with the cruise control on , and it decided to start accelerating for no reason .
The best part is that this was one isolated incident for a car in which I logged over 200k miles .
By the way , that was an awesome car .
I could drive like an old lady and get 45mpg , or ( typically ) like Mario Andretti and * still * get 43mpg.In response to the claims of tinkering with the speedometer , both my '98 Jetta and my '08 Mazda3 have always reported the exact same speed on the speedometer as those roadside radar detectors .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had a similar incident happen on my '98 Jetta.
I was on an interstate with the cruise control on, and it decided to start accelerating for no reason.
The best part is that this was one isolated incident for a car in which I logged over 200k miles.
By the way, that was an awesome car.
I could drive like an old lady and get 45mpg, or (typically) like Mario Andretti and *still* get 43mpg.In response to the claims of tinkering with the speedometer, both my '98 Jetta and my '08 Mazda3 have always reported the exact same speed on the speedometer as those roadside radar detectors.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29981796</id>
	<title>A few points on E-throttle design</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257015840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I work in a European automotive company and I'd like to make a few points :
1) e-throttle is the reference design on every new car sold in Europe, it is the only way to meet the pollutant emissions regulations in Euope. Moreover it provides reductions in fuel consumption.
2) The unwanted acceleration is the most dangerous event that is taken into account in the design of the system
3) several levels of redundancies are designed to avoid this, both at hardware and software level. It implies dual sensors for the gas pedal, dual estimation of the desired torque, and switching to a safe state in case of discrepancy.

The floor mat hypothesis seems not too far fetched for me, even if I have no insight on the Toyota design for this ECU.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I work in a European automotive company and I 'd like to make a few points : 1 ) e-throttle is the reference design on every new car sold in Europe , it is the only way to meet the pollutant emissions regulations in Euope .
Moreover it provides reductions in fuel consumption .
2 ) The unwanted acceleration is the most dangerous event that is taken into account in the design of the system 3 ) several levels of redundancies are designed to avoid this , both at hardware and software level .
It implies dual sensors for the gas pedal , dual estimation of the desired torque , and switching to a safe state in case of discrepancy .
The floor mat hypothesis seems not too far fetched for me , even if I have no insight on the Toyota design for this ECU .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work in a European automotive company and I'd like to make a few points :
1) e-throttle is the reference design on every new car sold in Europe, it is the only way to meet the pollutant emissions regulations in Euope.
Moreover it provides reductions in fuel consumption.
2) The unwanted acceleration is the most dangerous event that is taken into account in the design of the system
3) several levels of redundancies are designed to avoid this, both at hardware and software level.
It implies dual sensors for the gas pedal, dual estimation of the desired torque, and switching to a safe state in case of discrepancy.
The floor mat hypothesis seems not too far fetched for me, even if I have no insight on the Toyota design for this ECU.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29981430</id>
	<title>Ford acceleration problem</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257014700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had a Ford in the 90s that seemed to accelerate on its own.  Happened for a few months.  I assumed it was some problem with the cruise control, and so did everyone in my family who drove the car.  One day it happened as I was rounding a corner in the snow.  Not good.  A few weeks later I noticed it was the floor mat getting in the way of the pedal.  Especially in cars that have cruise control, it is easy to think that is the problem and overlook a simpler explanation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had a Ford in the 90s that seemed to accelerate on its own .
Happened for a few months .
I assumed it was some problem with the cruise control , and so did everyone in my family who drove the car .
One day it happened as I was rounding a corner in the snow .
Not good .
A few weeks later I noticed it was the floor mat getting in the way of the pedal .
Especially in cars that have cruise control , it is easy to think that is the problem and overlook a simpler explanation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had a Ford in the 90s that seemed to accelerate on its own.
Happened for a few months.
I assumed it was some problem with the cruise control, and so did everyone in my family who drove the car.
One day it happened as I was rounding a corner in the snow.
Not good.
A few weeks later I noticed it was the floor mat getting in the way of the pedal.
Especially in cars that have cruise control, it is easy to think that is the problem and overlook a simpler explanation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29983238</id>
	<title>Been there before</title>
	<author>brain1</author>
	<datestamp>1257019860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I had a 1969 Chevy Nova that had this same kind of problem.  The design of the accelerator was a set of rods that was hinged off the pedal, up the firewall to a pivot, and straight forward to the carburetor.  All was well and good until an engine mount broke and it rocked a bit to one side.  Engine mounts are intentionally captive, so it never breaks free, but suddenly there's a lot more transverse travel.  Make a hard turn in traffic and the throttle gets pinned full open by that fixed linkage as the engine rocks to one side and stays there due to torque.

I was a scared 16 year old kid in a suddenly hurtling rocket.  But even through that, I had the presence of mind to reach up and turn the key off.

So the question begs: Why didn't these people just switch off the engine when things went wrong?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I had a 1969 Chevy Nova that had this same kind of problem .
The design of the accelerator was a set of rods that was hinged off the pedal , up the firewall to a pivot , and straight forward to the carburetor .
All was well and good until an engine mount broke and it rocked a bit to one side .
Engine mounts are intentionally captive , so it never breaks free , but suddenly there 's a lot more transverse travel .
Make a hard turn in traffic and the throttle gets pinned full open by that fixed linkage as the engine rocks to one side and stays there due to torque .
I was a scared 16 year old kid in a suddenly hurtling rocket .
But even through that , I had the presence of mind to reach up and turn the key off .
So the question begs : Why did n't these people just switch off the engine when things went wrong ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had a 1969 Chevy Nova that had this same kind of problem.
The design of the accelerator was a set of rods that was hinged off the pedal, up the firewall to a pivot, and straight forward to the carburetor.
All was well and good until an engine mount broke and it rocked a bit to one side.
Engine mounts are intentionally captive, so it never breaks free, but suddenly there's a lot more transverse travel.
Make a hard turn in traffic and the throttle gets pinned full open by that fixed linkage as the engine rocks to one side and stays there due to torque.
I was a scared 16 year old kid in a suddenly hurtling rocket.
But even through that, I had the presence of mind to reach up and turn the key off.
So the question begs: Why didn't these people just switch off the engine when things went wrong?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29978132</id>
	<title>Audi Suffered the Same Thing</title>
	<author>IronSilk</author>
	<datestamp>1257004380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In the 1980's CBS' "60 Minutes" repeatedly aired an article about "unintended acceleration", including a dramatic interview with a woman who ran over and killed her 6-year-old son. Audi sales were severely affected for years. In the end, the consensus among engineers is that drivers were pressing on the gas pedal when they thought it was the brake. In the case of the 6-year-old, the accelerator pedal was mashed heavily into the floor mat. For obvious psychological reasons, the woman could not admit she was pressing the gas. The Toyota situation of unintended acceleration is probably an urban legend. We will see.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the 1980 's CBS ' " 60 Minutes " repeatedly aired an article about " unintended acceleration " , including a dramatic interview with a woman who ran over and killed her 6-year-old son .
Audi sales were severely affected for years .
In the end , the consensus among engineers is that drivers were pressing on the gas pedal when they thought it was the brake .
In the case of the 6-year-old , the accelerator pedal was mashed heavily into the floor mat .
For obvious psychological reasons , the woman could not admit she was pressing the gas .
The Toyota situation of unintended acceleration is probably an urban legend .
We will see .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the 1980's CBS' "60 Minutes" repeatedly aired an article about "unintended acceleration", including a dramatic interview with a woman who ran over and killed her 6-year-old son.
Audi sales were severely affected for years.
In the end, the consensus among engineers is that drivers were pressing on the gas pedal when they thought it was the brake.
In the case of the 6-year-old, the accelerator pedal was mashed heavily into the floor mat.
For obvious psychological reasons, the woman could not admit she was pressing the gas.
The Toyota situation of unintended acceleration is probably an urban legend.
We will see.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29977718</id>
	<title>Re:Serves you right for buying a Jap Car</title>
	<author>Ogive17</author>
	<datestamp>1257002700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>A good portion of Japanese cars sold in the US are built in the US.  Meanwhile the Detroit automakers are building more and more of their vehicles in Mexico.<br>
<br>
Maybe it's the people in Detroit that led to the failures of the Big 3.  If they only had close minded people such as yourself to chose from, it's no wonder they never adapted to any market changes.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A good portion of Japanese cars sold in the US are built in the US .
Meanwhile the Detroit automakers are building more and more of their vehicles in Mexico .
Maybe it 's the people in Detroit that led to the failures of the Big 3 .
If they only had close minded people such as yourself to chose from , it 's no wonder they never adapted to any market changes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A good portion of Japanese cars sold in the US are built in the US.
Meanwhile the Detroit automakers are building more and more of their vehicles in Mexico.
Maybe it's the people in Detroit that led to the failures of the Big 3.
If they only had close minded people such as yourself to chose from, it's no wonder they never adapted to any market changes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29976396</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29982208</id>
	<title>Re:Brakes</title>
	<author>NotTheNickIWanted</author>
	<datestamp>1257016980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><blockquote><div><p>When brakes get really hot, the pad material starts to turn directly into gas and causes the pads to "float."</p></div></blockquote><p>

This is not true. Brake fade is caused by the hydraulic fluid boiling, thereby turning an incompressible fluid into a compressible one, thereby greatly reducing the amount of force applied to the pads.</p></div></blockquote><p>

Yes, the GP is true.  This is why in sport and high performance applications you often find cross-drilled brake rotors.  While the holes do provide some additional surface area to the rotor which promotes cooling, their primary purpose is to give the gas somewhere to go &amp; thereby allow greater pad-to-rotor friction.</p><p>

That's not to say that brake fluid doesn't boil, however boiling brake fluid is usually caused by the demand for braking force exceeding the components' ability to dissipate heat away from the caliper, or excessive moisture being present in the brake fluid.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>When brakes get really hot , the pad material starts to turn directly into gas and causes the pads to " float .
" This is not true .
Brake fade is caused by the hydraulic fluid boiling , thereby turning an incompressible fluid into a compressible one , thereby greatly reducing the amount of force applied to the pads .
Yes , the GP is true .
This is why in sport and high performance applications you often find cross-drilled brake rotors .
While the holes do provide some additional surface area to the rotor which promotes cooling , their primary purpose is to give the gas somewhere to go &amp; thereby allow greater pad-to-rotor friction .
That 's not to say that brake fluid does n't boil , however boiling brake fluid is usually caused by the demand for braking force exceeding the components ' ability to dissipate heat away from the caliper , or excessive moisture being present in the brake fluid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When brakes get really hot, the pad material starts to turn directly into gas and causes the pads to "float.
"

This is not true.
Brake fade is caused by the hydraulic fluid boiling, thereby turning an incompressible fluid into a compressible one, thereby greatly reducing the amount of force applied to the pads.
Yes, the GP is true.
This is why in sport and high performance applications you often find cross-drilled brake rotors.
While the holes do provide some additional surface area to the rotor which promotes cooling, their primary purpose is to give the gas somewhere to go &amp; thereby allow greater pad-to-rotor friction.
That's not to say that brake fluid doesn't boil, however boiling brake fluid is usually caused by the demand for braking force exceeding the components' ability to dissipate heat away from the caliper, or excessive moisture being present in the brake fluid.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974460</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29975152</id>
	<title>Re:God damn it this again</title>
	<author>malv</author>
	<datestamp>1256981160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>No, I can definitely say I've had my Saturn do this and it had absolutely nothing to do with the floor mat. After almost rear-ending a guy in a drive-through the car basically would accelerate erratically and unpredictably until we took it to the dealer and the bad chip was replaced. The car was beyond dangerous and I can easily say it was infuriating to know that these things can happen, and probably do happen frequently. Nobody should lose their life because of a bug.</htmltext>
<tokenext>No , I can definitely say I 've had my Saturn do this and it had absolutely nothing to do with the floor mat .
After almost rear-ending a guy in a drive-through the car basically would accelerate erratically and unpredictably until we took it to the dealer and the bad chip was replaced .
The car was beyond dangerous and I can easily say it was infuriating to know that these things can happen , and probably do happen frequently .
Nobody should lose their life because of a bug .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, I can definitely say I've had my Saturn do this and it had absolutely nothing to do with the floor mat.
After almost rear-ending a guy in a drive-through the car basically would accelerate erratically and unpredictably until we took it to the dealer and the bad chip was replaced.
The car was beyond dangerous and I can easily say it was infuriating to know that these things can happen, and probably do happen frequently.
Nobody should lose their life because of a bug.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973562</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29977484</id>
	<title>Not again!!!</title>
	<author>DaveV1.0</author>
	<datestamp>1257001560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The only thing about this that is "news" is that stupid people are once again reject evidence and reality. It is always the same thing:</p><blockquote><div><p>I have fifty anecdotes and these two things happen in concert, so one <b>must</b> be causing the other. It doesn't matter what science or statistics say because I <b>believe</b> it so it must be true.</p></div></blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only thing about this that is " news " is that stupid people are once again reject evidence and reality .
It is always the same thing : I have fifty anecdotes and these two things happen in concert , so one must be causing the other .
It does n't matter what science or statistics say because I believe it so it must be true .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only thing about this that is "news" is that stupid people are once again reject evidence and reality.
It is always the same thing:I have fifty anecdotes and these two things happen in concert, so one must be causing the other.
It doesn't matter what science or statistics say because I believe it so it must be true.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29977060</id>
	<title>Re:Go to the ABC site - watch video</title>
	<author>drrck</author>
	<datestamp>1256999460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In my VW TDI full brake and accelerator causes the ECU to cut the fuel back to idle.  It will not accelerate again until you completely release the brake and wait a few seconds.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In my VW TDI full brake and accelerator causes the ECU to cut the fuel back to idle .
It will not accelerate again until you completely release the brake and wait a few seconds .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my VW TDI full brake and accelerator causes the ECU to cut the fuel back to idle.
It will not accelerate again until you completely release the brake and wait a few seconds.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29976396</id>
	<title>Serves you right for buying a Jap Car</title>
	<author>tjstork</author>
	<datestamp>1256993940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's all I'm saying... Why I am supposed to care about some malady that befalls you in your foreign car, when my city is destroyed by Big 3 downsizing.  If our unemployment is our fault for building shitty cars, then, certainly your accident is your fault for buying one too.  Don't come crying to me about your Toyota problems...If you get killed in that thing, its not my problem.  You abandoned my country decades ago.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's all I 'm saying... Why I am supposed to care about some malady that befalls you in your foreign car , when my city is destroyed by Big 3 downsizing .
If our unemployment is our fault for building shitty cars , then , certainly your accident is your fault for buying one too .
Do n't come crying to me about your Toyota problems...If you get killed in that thing , its not my problem .
You abandoned my country decades ago .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's all I'm saying... Why I am supposed to care about some malady that befalls you in your foreign car, when my city is destroyed by Big 3 downsizing.
If our unemployment is our fault for building shitty cars, then, certainly your accident is your fault for buying one too.
Don't come crying to me about your Toyota problems...If you get killed in that thing, its not my problem.
You abandoned my country decades ago.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29980170</id>
	<title>Re:Driver error.</title>
	<author>ucblockhead</author>
	<datestamp>1257010920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If both the brakes and the accelerator are on maximum, you are going to burn out the brake pads *very* quickly and end up essentially rendering the brakes useless.  The brakes on a car are designed to slow a car that isn't accelerating.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If both the brakes and the accelerator are on maximum , you are going to burn out the brake pads * very * quickly and end up essentially rendering the brakes useless .
The brakes on a car are designed to slow a car that is n't accelerating .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If both the brakes and the accelerator are on maximum, you are going to burn out the brake pads *very* quickly and end up essentially rendering the brakes useless.
The brakes on a car are designed to slow a car that isn't accelerating.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973878</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29976328</id>
	<title>This happened to me ...</title>
	<author>Katchu</author>
	<datestamp>1256993340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I had a 91 Geo Prism (a Toyota Corolla) that had this problem. It scared the heck out of me the first time--I put it in neutral then shut it off because the brakes weren't doing the job. I got to the side of the road and it took me about a minute to figure out it WAS THE FLOOR MAT. If I wasn't careful to keep the floor mat back out of the way it would do the same thing again. Not so scary then, but it did take more time than braking to correct the situation so it was dangerous. There also may be a computer problem, but not in this case.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I had a 91 Geo Prism ( a Toyota Corolla ) that had this problem .
It scared the heck out of me the first time--I put it in neutral then shut it off because the brakes were n't doing the job .
I got to the side of the road and it took me about a minute to figure out it WAS THE FLOOR MAT .
If I was n't careful to keep the floor mat back out of the way it would do the same thing again .
Not so scary then , but it did take more time than braking to correct the situation so it was dangerous .
There also may be a computer problem , but not in this case .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had a 91 Geo Prism (a Toyota Corolla) that had this problem.
It scared the heck out of me the first time--I put it in neutral then shut it off because the brakes weren't doing the job.
I got to the side of the road and it took me about a minute to figure out it WAS THE FLOOR MAT.
If I wasn't careful to keep the floor mat back out of the way it would do the same thing again.
Not so scary then, but it did take more time than braking to correct the situation so it was dangerous.
There also may be a computer problem, but not in this case.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29995148</id>
	<title>Love the headline:  Owner's "up in arms"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257438240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Meaning "arms are raised rollercoaster style while drivers accelerate off edge of cliff"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....AHHHHHH!!!!!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Meaning " arms are raised rollercoaster style while drivers accelerate off edge of cliff " ....AHHHHHH ! ! ! ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Meaning "arms are raised rollercoaster style while drivers accelerate off edge of cliff" ....AHHHHHH!!!!!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29979286</id>
	<title>knowledge is freedom</title>
	<author>e-scetic</author>
	<datestamp>1257008220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a sailor I find this discussion interesting because I've been forced by necessity to learn and understand how everything on my boat works, including diesel engine, electric, plumbing, rigging, sail, paint, even the construction materials used. I've also come to mistrust hi-tech in a marine environment.</p><p>If my diesel runs away, I know of at least two methods to stop it, and can usually diagnose and solve other mechanical problems.  If the steering fails, I know how to access and repair the steering components, but if I can't then I at least know how to steer by sail alone.  If the electric fails I can systematically isolate the fault, or just sail without.  If the plumbing fails I can likewise isolate the cause and have the equipment on hand to repair it or stop the leak.  In essence, I've become a plumber, mechanic, electrician, carpenter, engineer, etc.</p><p>But I think most yachties are more like car owners, they don't want to know, they just pay others to fix it.</p><p>I tell you, knowledge is freedom.  The less you understand the workings of something, the more enslaved you are.</p><p>Oh, and the more you pay through the nose for it.</p><p>Me, I'll continue to ride my bike to work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a sailor I find this discussion interesting because I 've been forced by necessity to learn and understand how everything on my boat works , including diesel engine , electric , plumbing , rigging , sail , paint , even the construction materials used .
I 've also come to mistrust hi-tech in a marine environment.If my diesel runs away , I know of at least two methods to stop it , and can usually diagnose and solve other mechanical problems .
If the steering fails , I know how to access and repair the steering components , but if I ca n't then I at least know how to steer by sail alone .
If the electric fails I can systematically isolate the fault , or just sail without .
If the plumbing fails I can likewise isolate the cause and have the equipment on hand to repair it or stop the leak .
In essence , I 've become a plumber , mechanic , electrician , carpenter , engineer , etc.But I think most yachties are more like car owners , they do n't want to know , they just pay others to fix it.I tell you , knowledge is freedom .
The less you understand the workings of something , the more enslaved you are.Oh , and the more you pay through the nose for it.Me , I 'll continue to ride my bike to work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a sailor I find this discussion interesting because I've been forced by necessity to learn and understand how everything on my boat works, including diesel engine, electric, plumbing, rigging, sail, paint, even the construction materials used.
I've also come to mistrust hi-tech in a marine environment.If my diesel runs away, I know of at least two methods to stop it, and can usually diagnose and solve other mechanical problems.
If the steering fails, I know how to access and repair the steering components, but if I can't then I at least know how to steer by sail alone.
If the electric fails I can systematically isolate the fault, or just sail without.
If the plumbing fails I can likewise isolate the cause and have the equipment on hand to repair it or stop the leak.
In essence, I've become a plumber, mechanic, electrician, carpenter, engineer, etc.But I think most yachties are more like car owners, they don't want to know, they just pay others to fix it.I tell you, knowledge is freedom.
The less you understand the workings of something, the more enslaved you are.Oh, and the more you pay through the nose for it.Me, I'll continue to ride my bike to work.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29976622</id>
	<title>I had this happen on my Infinity I30</title>
	<author>cs668</author>
	<datestamp>1256996160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The dealer wouldn't believe me as it was intermittent.  When it did happen I had to slam on the break and turn off the ignition, and then everything would be fine.</p><p>I finally talked the dealers mechanic into taking my car and using it.  After 3 days I get a call where he finally experienced the problem.</p><p>Turns out it was something strange with the cruise control, even with it turned off at the steering wheel it would still engage and not stop accelerating.</p><p>Let's just say that when your driving on a downtown street and your car decides to floor it, you end up in situations where you really wish you were wearing a diaper.</p><p>I feel sorry for the Toyota owners going through this.  Specially because I know how skeptical the dealers can be.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The dealer would n't believe me as it was intermittent .
When it did happen I had to slam on the break and turn off the ignition , and then everything would be fine.I finally talked the dealers mechanic into taking my car and using it .
After 3 days I get a call where he finally experienced the problem.Turns out it was something strange with the cruise control , even with it turned off at the steering wheel it would still engage and not stop accelerating.Let 's just say that when your driving on a downtown street and your car decides to floor it , you end up in situations where you really wish you were wearing a diaper.I feel sorry for the Toyota owners going through this .
Specially because I know how skeptical the dealers can be .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The dealer wouldn't believe me as it was intermittent.
When it did happen I had to slam on the break and turn off the ignition, and then everything would be fine.I finally talked the dealers mechanic into taking my car and using it.
After 3 days I get a call where he finally experienced the problem.Turns out it was something strange with the cruise control, even with it turned off at the steering wheel it would still engage and not stop accelerating.Let's just say that when your driving on a downtown street and your car decides to floor it, you end up in situations where you really wish you were wearing a diaper.I feel sorry for the Toyota owners going through this.
Specially because I know how skeptical the dealers can be.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29975920</id>
	<title>We've seen this before in the Audi</title>
	<author>tkrotchko</author>
	<datestamp>1256988780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.audifans.com/archives/1998/07/msg02207.html" title="audifans.com">http://www.audifans.com/archives/1998/07/msg02207.html</a> [audifans.com]</p><p>People forget that when the Audi 5000 was released, it was hit with the same allegations.  Owners swore the car started accelerating by itself, even though they were pressing as hard as they could on the brake!</p><p>60 minutes did a hatchet job on the car, and it almost ruined Audi.</p><p>And at the time, clearer heads pointed out (in car magazines, newspapers) that it is impossible for an engine to overcome the brakes in a car.  This is clearly true.  But people swore they were pressing the brake.</p><p>Here's what NHSTA found:  the Audi had much smaller pedals than American cars, particularly the brake, so that when people were panicked, they were actually pressing the accelerator, not the brake.  It seems impossible, but true!  The car was designed for European audiences and had smaller pedals to accommodate a clutch, even when it had an automatic transmission.  So when people moved from old-style American cars with a huge, wide brake pedal, they were not reacting properly in a panic situation.</p><p>I've seen the same thing in relatives.  About 2 decades ago, a female relative claimed she got into an accident because the car started accelerating, no matter how hard she pressed on a brake.  She swore this to be true, even though what she was suggesting was a physical impossibility.  But to this day, she believes it.</p><p>So I would be skeptical of this claim by owners.  Not impossible, but highly improbable based on what we've seen from people in this situation many times before.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.audifans.com/archives/1998/07/msg02207.html [ audifans.com ] People forget that when the Audi 5000 was released , it was hit with the same allegations .
Owners swore the car started accelerating by itself , even though they were pressing as hard as they could on the brake ! 60 minutes did a hatchet job on the car , and it almost ruined Audi.And at the time , clearer heads pointed out ( in car magazines , newspapers ) that it is impossible for an engine to overcome the brakes in a car .
This is clearly true .
But people swore they were pressing the brake.Here 's what NHSTA found : the Audi had much smaller pedals than American cars , particularly the brake , so that when people were panicked , they were actually pressing the accelerator , not the brake .
It seems impossible , but true !
The car was designed for European audiences and had smaller pedals to accommodate a clutch , even when it had an automatic transmission .
So when people moved from old-style American cars with a huge , wide brake pedal , they were not reacting properly in a panic situation.I 've seen the same thing in relatives .
About 2 decades ago , a female relative claimed she got into an accident because the car started accelerating , no matter how hard she pressed on a brake .
She swore this to be true , even though what she was suggesting was a physical impossibility .
But to this day , she believes it.So I would be skeptical of this claim by owners .
Not impossible , but highly improbable based on what we 've seen from people in this situation many times before .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.audifans.com/archives/1998/07/msg02207.html [audifans.com]People forget that when the Audi 5000 was released, it was hit with the same allegations.
Owners swore the car started accelerating by itself, even though they were pressing as hard as they could on the brake!60 minutes did a hatchet job on the car, and it almost ruined Audi.And at the time, clearer heads pointed out (in car magazines, newspapers) that it is impossible for an engine to overcome the brakes in a car.
This is clearly true.
But people swore they were pressing the brake.Here's what NHSTA found:  the Audi had much smaller pedals than American cars, particularly the brake, so that when people were panicked, they were actually pressing the accelerator, not the brake.
It seems impossible, but true!
The car was designed for European audiences and had smaller pedals to accommodate a clutch, even when it had an automatic transmission.
So when people moved from old-style American cars with a huge, wide brake pedal, they were not reacting properly in a panic situation.I've seen the same thing in relatives.
About 2 decades ago, a female relative claimed she got into an accident because the car started accelerating, no matter how hard she pressed on a brake.
She swore this to be true, even though what she was suggesting was a physical impossibility.
But to this day, she believes it.So I would be skeptical of this claim by owners.
Not impossible, but highly improbable based on what we've seen from people in this situation many times before.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29975484</id>
	<title>Runaway Prius = Danger!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256984280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/10/tesla-electric-car-accident-denmark-prius-suv.php<br>and<br>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/01/prius-and-tesla-gang-up-on-suv-the-suv-wins/</p><p>Here's an example of the levels of damage a Prius can do. (Example from Denmark)<br>I realize this probably is a bit OT since the Prius-driver was at fault (didn't notice the SUV, the Tesla and a motorbike stopping at a junction), but it is impressive, not to mention scary, to see the kind of damage a small car like the Prius can do. The Tesla is LITERALLY wedged under the SUV.</p><p>BTW: No-one was hurt, the motorbike is in the bushes somwhere (not in photo).</p><p>T-Bone</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.treehugger.com/files/2009/10/tesla-electric-car-accident-denmark-prius-suv.phpandhttp : //wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/01/prius-and-tesla-gang-up-on-suv-the-suv-wins/Here 's an example of the levels of damage a Prius can do .
( Example from Denmark ) I realize this probably is a bit OT since the Prius-driver was at fault ( did n't notice the SUV , the Tesla and a motorbike stopping at a junction ) , but it is impressive , not to mention scary , to see the kind of damage a small car like the Prius can do .
The Tesla is LITERALLY wedged under the SUV.BTW : No-one was hurt , the motorbike is in the bushes somwhere ( not in photo ) .T-Bone</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/10/tesla-electric-car-accident-denmark-prius-suv.phpandhttp://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/01/prius-and-tesla-gang-up-on-suv-the-suv-wins/Here's an example of the levels of damage a Prius can do.
(Example from Denmark)I realize this probably is a bit OT since the Prius-driver was at fault (didn't notice the SUV, the Tesla and a motorbike stopping at a junction), but it is impressive, not to mention scary, to see the kind of damage a small car like the Prius can do.
The Tesla is LITERALLY wedged under the SUV.BTW: No-one was hurt, the motorbike is in the bushes somwhere (not in photo).T-Bone</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974282</id>
	<title>Re:Again?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257274920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>and how many times has it happened with one where the floor mats were REMOVED for safety measures....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>and how many times has it happened with one where the floor mats were REMOVED for safety measures... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and how many times has it happened with one where the floor mats were REMOVED for safety measures....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29973752</parent>
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<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29987112</id>
	<title>Re:problems with complexity</title>
	<author>aphelion\_rock</author>
	<datestamp>1256989080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Aircraft also have multiple systems, two , three - up to five for critical things like flight controls. They do this because anything mechanical or electronic is subject to failure and usually does at some time in its life. The humble automobile typically uses single systems with the exception of some critical components like brakes. Using a single system on the throttle can only result in a failure at some point in time. Floor mats aside, there will be some failures experienced by some people that result in a full throttle situation.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Aircraft also have multiple systems , two , three - up to five for critical things like flight controls .
They do this because anything mechanical or electronic is subject to failure and usually does at some time in its life .
The humble automobile typically uses single systems with the exception of some critical components like brakes .
Using a single system on the throttle can only result in a failure at some point in time .
Floor mats aside , there will be some failures experienced by some people that result in a full throttle situation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Aircraft also have multiple systems, two , three - up to five for critical things like flight controls.
They do this because anything mechanical or electronic is subject to failure and usually does at some time in its life.
The humble automobile typically uses single systems with the exception of some critical components like brakes.
Using a single system on the throttle can only result in a failure at some point in time.
Floor mats aside, there will be some failures experienced by some people that result in a full throttle situation.</sentencetext>
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-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29986754
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974706
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29977154
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29983396
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29975196
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29977798
</commentlist>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_04_0053215.27</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0053215.29974380
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