<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_10_31_1620218</id>
	<title>What Happened To the Bay Bridge?</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1257014160000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>farnsworth writes <i>"Tony Alfrey has put together a fascinating page with some history, analysis, and possible explanations for what <a href="http://www.sci-experiments.com/BrokenBridge/BrokenBridge.html">ultimately went wrong</a> with the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern\_span\_replacement\_of\_the\_San\_Francisco\_\%E2\%80\%93\_Oakland\_Bay\_Bridge#October\_2009\_incident">recent emergency repair</a> of the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge. The bridge has been closed for days and is not scheduled to open for days to come, hugely inconveniencing <a href="http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/esc/tollbridge/SFOBB/Sfobbfacts.html">more than 250,000 people</a> a day. His analysis touches on possibly poor welding, a possibly flawed temporary fix, and the absence of a long-term fix or adequate follow-up by Caltrans, the agency responsible for the bridge. Slashdot is a great engineering community; what other insights do you have on the bridge situation?"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>farnsworth writes " Tony Alfrey has put together a fascinating page with some history , analysis , and possible explanations for what ultimately went wrong with the recent emergency repair of the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge .
The bridge has been closed for days and is not scheduled to open for days to come , hugely inconveniencing more than 250,000 people a day .
His analysis touches on possibly poor welding , a possibly flawed temporary fix , and the absence of a long-term fix or adequate follow-up by Caltrans , the agency responsible for the bridge .
Slashdot is a great engineering community ; what other insights do you have on the bridge situation ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>farnsworth writes "Tony Alfrey has put together a fascinating page with some history, analysis, and possible explanations for what ultimately went wrong with the recent emergency repair of the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge.
The bridge has been closed for days and is not scheduled to open for days to come, hugely inconveniencing more than 250,000 people a day.
His analysis touches on possibly poor welding, a possibly flawed temporary fix, and the absence of a long-term fix or adequate follow-up by Caltrans, the agency responsible for the bridge.
Slashdot is a great engineering community; what other insights do you have on the bridge situation?
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29940613</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile, in Segovia....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257075840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"the ones that are still standing today happen to be the good ones."</p><p>And not just good ones, but well maintained and even partially rebuilt ("restored") ones.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" the ones that are still standing today happen to be the good ones .
" And not just good ones , but well maintained and even partially rebuilt ( " restored " ) ones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"the ones that are still standing today happen to be the good ones.
"And not just good ones, but well maintained and even partially rebuilt ("restored") ones.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937325</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936061</id>
	<title>still dead!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257018000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For several work mornings the headline on "the new" CNN.com has been "Bay Bridge still closed."</p><p>In my head I hear it in the voice of Chevy Chase.</p><p>"General Francisco Franco is still dead!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For several work mornings the headline on " the new " CNN.com has been " Bay Bridge still closed .
" In my head I hear it in the voice of Chevy Chase .
" General Francisco Franco is still dead !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For several work mornings the headline on "the new" CNN.com has been "Bay Bridge still closed.
"In my head I hear it in the voice of Chevy Chase.
"General Francisco Franco is still dead!
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936255</id>
	<title>Re:Lack of redundancy</title>
	<author>moosesocks</author>
	<datestamp>1257019860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In between D.C. and Baltimore we even have three parallel highways - I-95 and 295 and US-1. One might be closed but the other two will still be usable.</p></div><p>That's stretching it, even on a good day when all 3 are open!</p><p>(If you drive through/around DC even occasionally, you'll know that I'm not speaking in hyperbole.  Also, there's been a whole ton of construction lately on all 3, which is making the beltway even more treacherous than it usually is...not helped by the fact that the people who drive on it seem to drive <i>either</i> 40 or 80 mph, with no regard to which lane they're doing it in.  I swear that road was designed to maximize the number of accidents that occur on it)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In between D.C. and Baltimore we even have three parallel highways - I-95 and 295 and US-1 .
One might be closed but the other two will still be usable.That 's stretching it , even on a good day when all 3 are open !
( If you drive through/around DC even occasionally , you 'll know that I 'm not speaking in hyperbole .
Also , there 's been a whole ton of construction lately on all 3 , which is making the beltway even more treacherous than it usually is...not helped by the fact that the people who drive on it seem to drive either 40 or 80 mph , with no regard to which lane they 're doing it in .
I swear that road was designed to maximize the number of accidents that occur on it )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In between D.C. and Baltimore we even have three parallel highways - I-95 and 295 and US-1.
One might be closed but the other two will still be usable.That's stretching it, even on a good day when all 3 are open!
(If you drive through/around DC even occasionally, you'll know that I'm not speaking in hyperbole.
Also, there's been a whole ton of construction lately on all 3, which is making the beltway even more treacherous than it usually is...not helped by the fact that the people who drive on it seem to drive either 40 or 80 mph, with no regard to which lane they're doing it in.
I swear that road was designed to maximize the number of accidents that occur on it)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936171</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936967</id>
	<title>Re:Welders are a scapegoat</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1256982660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My understanding is the welding isn't being blamed, but I'll be the first to admin I've not bothered to read more than this article about<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... however<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p><p>In the perfect world, more welders would always be added to speed up the process.  But we do not live in a perfect world.  You may live in a dream world, but thats not the one we live in.</p><p>I see, on a regular basis, 'trained and certified professionals' take shortcuts and break the rules.  I know state road inspectors that will pass things that really are questionable in order to get a road open.  I see the resulting road failures myself.</p><p>You can pretend that, as a welder, these guys are somehow immune to human nature, but that juts makes you nieve and disconnected from reality.  Welders are people.  People, ALL PEOPLE, are not immune from outside pressure.</p><p>Your friends may be good guys, that doesn't mean all welders are like your friends.  Hell, as  a hobbyist welder I'm assuming you don't work on bridges so you aren't even qualified to talk about what goes on welding bridges.</p><p>You are lashing out to defend what you perceive as your team, your boss, your cohorts.  But you are no more informed on the issue than I am really.  CNN doesn't count as informative when we're talking technical details of something like this, especially when interpreted by someone who starts off their message by 'I'm a hobbyist'.</p><p>I'm a hobbyist pilot too, but I'm fully freaking aware that I am not qualified to fly a large passenger jet into the hudson or even really comment on 'what went wrong' in the engines after the bird strike.  I've been around pilots for a lot of my life, including ones that fly large aircraft.  Still does not qualify me to do so, I have no delusions of such things.</p><p>Welding your sons go-kart together doesn't compare to building a bridge.   Get some perspective and soda.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My understanding is the welding is n't being blamed , but I 'll be the first to admin I 've not bothered to read more than this article about ... however ...In the perfect world , more welders would always be added to speed up the process .
But we do not live in a perfect world .
You may live in a dream world , but thats not the one we live in.I see , on a regular basis , 'trained and certified professionals ' take shortcuts and break the rules .
I know state road inspectors that will pass things that really are questionable in order to get a road open .
I see the resulting road failures myself.You can pretend that , as a welder , these guys are somehow immune to human nature , but that juts makes you nieve and disconnected from reality .
Welders are people .
People , ALL PEOPLE , are not immune from outside pressure.Your friends may be good guys , that does n't mean all welders are like your friends .
Hell , as a hobbyist welder I 'm assuming you do n't work on bridges so you are n't even qualified to talk about what goes on welding bridges.You are lashing out to defend what you perceive as your team , your boss , your cohorts .
But you are no more informed on the issue than I am really .
CNN does n't count as informative when we 're talking technical details of something like this , especially when interpreted by someone who starts off their message by 'I 'm a hobbyist'.I 'm a hobbyist pilot too , but I 'm fully freaking aware that I am not qualified to fly a large passenger jet into the hudson or even really comment on 'what went wrong ' in the engines after the bird strike .
I 've been around pilots for a lot of my life , including ones that fly large aircraft .
Still does not qualify me to do so , I have no delusions of such things.Welding your sons go-kart together does n't compare to building a bridge .
Get some perspective and soda .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My understanding is the welding isn't being blamed, but I'll be the first to admin I've not bothered to read more than this article about ... however ...In the perfect world, more welders would always be added to speed up the process.
But we do not live in a perfect world.
You may live in a dream world, but thats not the one we live in.I see, on a regular basis, 'trained and certified professionals' take shortcuts and break the rules.
I know state road inspectors that will pass things that really are questionable in order to get a road open.
I see the resulting road failures myself.You can pretend that, as a welder, these guys are somehow immune to human nature, but that juts makes you nieve and disconnected from reality.
Welders are people.
People, ALL PEOPLE, are not immune from outside pressure.Your friends may be good guys, that doesn't mean all welders are like your friends.
Hell, as  a hobbyist welder I'm assuming you don't work on bridges so you aren't even qualified to talk about what goes on welding bridges.You are lashing out to defend what you perceive as your team, your boss, your cohorts.
But you are no more informed on the issue than I am really.
CNN doesn't count as informative when we're talking technical details of something like this, especially when interpreted by someone who starts off their message by 'I'm a hobbyist'.I'm a hobbyist pilot too, but I'm fully freaking aware that I am not qualified to fly a large passenger jet into the hudson or even really comment on 'what went wrong' in the engines after the bird strike.
I've been around pilots for a lot of my life, including ones that fly large aircraft.
Still does not qualify me to do so, I have no delusions of such things.Welding your sons go-kart together doesn't compare to building a bridge.
Get some perspective and soda.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936305</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936677</id>
	<title>I don't understand why people drive into SF anyway</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256980200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The city is so nice and uncongested today. I don't own a car, so admittedly I am very biased, but I would be quite content just to leave the bridge closed. Plus it puts the focus on public transit, where a compact city like SF should be focused. For example, BART (the subway) is running 24 hour service this weekend. As strange as it may sound, despite being an urban environment we don't have 24 hour subway service normally!!!</htmltext>
<tokenext>The city is so nice and uncongested today .
I do n't own a car , so admittedly I am very biased , but I would be quite content just to leave the bridge closed .
Plus it puts the focus on public transit , where a compact city like SF should be focused .
For example , BART ( the subway ) is running 24 hour service this weekend .
As strange as it may sound , despite being an urban environment we do n't have 24 hour subway service normally ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The city is so nice and uncongested today.
I don't own a car, so admittedly I am very biased, but I would be quite content just to leave the bridge closed.
Plus it puts the focus on public transit, where a compact city like SF should be focused.
For example, BART (the subway) is running 24 hour service this weekend.
As strange as it may sound, despite being an urban environment we don't have 24 hour subway service normally!!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936085</id>
	<title>Hmm</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257018240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Slashdot is a great engineering community</p></div><p>With all due respect, I think you should reconsider your assertion.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Slashdot is a great engineering communityWith all due respect , I think you should reconsider your assertion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Slashdot is a great engineering communityWith all due respect, I think you should reconsider your assertion.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936495</id>
	<title>Re:small</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257021840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Like dealing with the aftermath of Libertarian Wealth Redistribution brought to you by Ayn Rand loving Alan Greenspan and his Investment Bankster Cronies, AKA "The Roving Cavaliers of Credit"...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Like dealing with the aftermath of Libertarian Wealth Redistribution brought to you by Ayn Rand loving Alan Greenspan and his Investment Bankster Cronies , AKA " The Roving Cavaliers of Credit " .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Like dealing with the aftermath of Libertarian Wealth Redistribution brought to you by Ayn Rand loving Alan Greenspan and his Investment Bankster Cronies, AKA "The Roving Cavaliers of Credit"...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936133</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29938861</id>
	<title>Re:small</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1257003540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Compared to what?</p><p>Ethiopia?  Somalia?  Even the people living in the absolute WORST areas of America have nothing to bitch about compared to people who are actually suffering.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Compared to what ? Ethiopia ?
Somalia ? Even the people living in the absolute WORST areas of America have nothing to bitch about compared to people who are actually suffering .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Compared to what?Ethiopia?
Somalia?  Even the people living in the absolute WORST areas of America have nothing to bitch about compared to people who are actually suffering.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936133</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936171</id>
	<title>Lack of redundancy</title>
	<author>commodore64\_love</author>
	<datestamp>1257018840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>San France should have two bridges (or a secondary tunnel), so if one fails or needs repair, the second can still be used.  In Baltimore we have two tunnels and one bridge over the harbor, so if one fails the traffic can be diverted on the other two routes.  Redundancy.</p><p>In between D.C. and Baltimore we even have three parallel highways - I-95 and 295 and US-1.  One might be closed but the other two will still be usable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>San France should have two bridges ( or a secondary tunnel ) , so if one fails or needs repair , the second can still be used .
In Baltimore we have two tunnels and one bridge over the harbor , so if one fails the traffic can be diverted on the other two routes .
Redundancy.In between D.C. and Baltimore we even have three parallel highways - I-95 and 295 and US-1 .
One might be closed but the other two will still be usable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>San France should have two bridges (or a secondary tunnel), so if one fails or needs repair, the second can still be used.
In Baltimore we have two tunnels and one bridge over the harbor, so if one fails the traffic can be diverted on the other two routes.
Redundancy.In between D.C. and Baltimore we even have three parallel highways - I-95 and 295 and US-1.
One might be closed but the other two will still be usable.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29947880</id>
	<title>Re:Lets see here...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257102840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>"In 2003, Californians sent $50 billion more to Washington in federal taxes than the state received in federal expenditures.  Representing a slight increase from levels that have held steady for three preceding years, the Golden State&rsquo;s imbalance set a new record for any state, surpassing the previous mark (set also by California, in 2000 and 2001) of $48 billion."</p><p> <a href="http://www.calinst.org/pubs/balance2003.htm" title="calinst.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.calinst.org/pubs/balance2003.htm</a> [calinst.org] </p><p>Maybe if that weren't the case, California wouldn't be so broke right now.</p></div><p>The report then goes on to explain how this is due to Californians making significantly more on average than people in other states, and at the same time being significantly younger (and hence requiring less Social Security and Medicare spending.)  So, its not like the government is unfairly avoiding spending money there or something.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" In 2003 , Californians sent $ 50 billion more to Washington in federal taxes than the state received in federal expenditures .
Representing a slight increase from levels that have held steady for three preceding years , the Golden State    s imbalance set a new record for any state , surpassing the previous mark ( set also by California , in 2000 and 2001 ) of $ 48 billion .
" http : //www.calinst.org/pubs/balance2003.htm [ calinst.org ] Maybe if that were n't the case , California would n't be so broke right now.The report then goes on to explain how this is due to Californians making significantly more on average than people in other states , and at the same time being significantly younger ( and hence requiring less Social Security and Medicare spending .
) So , its not like the government is unfairly avoiding spending money there or something .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"In 2003, Californians sent $50 billion more to Washington in federal taxes than the state received in federal expenditures.
Representing a slight increase from levels that have held steady for three preceding years, the Golden State’s imbalance set a new record for any state, surpassing the previous mark (set also by California, in 2000 and 2001) of $48 billion.
" http://www.calinst.org/pubs/balance2003.htm [calinst.org] Maybe if that weren't the case, California wouldn't be so broke right now.The report then goes on to explain how this is due to Californians making significantly more on average than people in other states, and at the same time being significantly younger (and hence requiring less Social Security and Medicare spending.
)  So, its not like the government is unfairly avoiding spending money there or something.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936417</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936707</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile, in Segovia....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256980380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Though the aqueduct at Segovia is very impressive, it wouldn't last long in earthquake-infested California.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Though the aqueduct at Segovia is very impressive , it would n't last long in earthquake-infested California .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Though the aqueduct at Segovia is very impressive, it wouldn't last long in earthquake-infested California.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936395</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937413</id>
	<title>Re:And where did the retro-fit funds go?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256987460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I noticed that on the bay bridge dot org web site they had a bunch of high production value movies, animations, etc. presenting the bridge as well as the construction efforts. These aren't cheap to produce. I wonder how much money is wasted making beautiful 'feel good' presentations that could help reduce costs... maybe this is where some of the funds go. I suspect there are a ton of projects that California runs where they have spent several hundred thousand or even millions on 'feel good' movies and web sites. I'm not saying keeping the public informed is not important. But it kind of looks like they think because they have Hollywood they need to make the audiovisual aspect Hollywood grade. Or maybe it is a way to employ all the film school graduates and keep them off the street. It just seemed a tad much to explain that they are building a bridge.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I noticed that on the bay bridge dot org web site they had a bunch of high production value movies , animations , etc .
presenting the bridge as well as the construction efforts .
These are n't cheap to produce .
I wonder how much money is wasted making beautiful 'feel good ' presentations that could help reduce costs... maybe this is where some of the funds go .
I suspect there are a ton of projects that California runs where they have spent several hundred thousand or even millions on 'feel good ' movies and web sites .
I 'm not saying keeping the public informed is not important .
But it kind of looks like they think because they have Hollywood they need to make the audiovisual aspect Hollywood grade .
Or maybe it is a way to employ all the film school graduates and keep them off the street .
It just seemed a tad much to explain that they are building a bridge .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I noticed that on the bay bridge dot org web site they had a bunch of high production value movies, animations, etc.
presenting the bridge as well as the construction efforts.
These aren't cheap to produce.
I wonder how much money is wasted making beautiful 'feel good' presentations that could help reduce costs... maybe this is where some of the funds go.
I suspect there are a ton of projects that California runs where they have spent several hundred thousand or even millions on 'feel good' movies and web sites.
I'm not saying keeping the public informed is not important.
But it kind of looks like they think because they have Hollywood they need to make the audiovisual aspect Hollywood grade.
Or maybe it is a way to employ all the film school graduates and keep them off the street.
It just seemed a tad much to explain that they are building a bridge.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936113</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937053</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile, in Segovia....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256983380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One might, instead, argue that the aqueduct was just a tad overengineered...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One might , instead , argue that the aqueduct was just a tad overengineered.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One might, instead, argue that the aqueduct was just a tad overengineered...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936395</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936111</id>
	<title>No worries about the Bay Bridge!</title>
	<author>schmidt349</author>
	<datestamp>1257018420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you're interested, I can get you a great deal on a used bridge here in NY to replace it. Shipping and handling from Long Island not included.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're interested , I can get you a great deal on a used bridge here in NY to replace it .
Shipping and handling from Long Island not included .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're interested, I can get you a great deal on a used bridge here in NY to replace it.
Shipping and handling from Long Island not included.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29942926</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong audience</title>
	<author>xaxa</author>
	<datestamp>1257103920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I started reading this site in about 2001 (I've lost passwords to several accounts by now).</p><p>I agree that the moderation system is crap. I spend far too much time reading Slashdot, so I'm probably a heavy user, and I think I have mod points more often than not. I don't often use them though -- if I'm interested enough in a discussion to moderate, I'm usually interested enough to post a comment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I started reading this site in about 2001 ( I 've lost passwords to several accounts by now ) .I agree that the moderation system is crap .
I spend far too much time reading Slashdot , so I 'm probably a heavy user , and I think I have mod points more often than not .
I do n't often use them though -- if I 'm interested enough in a discussion to moderate , I 'm usually interested enough to post a comment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I started reading this site in about 2001 (I've lost passwords to several accounts by now).I agree that the moderation system is crap.
I spend far too much time reading Slashdot, so I'm probably a heavy user, and I think I have mod points more often than not.
I don't often use them though -- if I'm interested enough in a discussion to moderate, I'm usually interested enough to post a comment.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937355</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936523</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile, in Segovia....</title>
	<author>WCguru42</author>
	<datestamp>1257022140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not to take anything away from the impressive feat of engineering that the Roman aqueducts are but there is a big difference between carrying water and carrying 250,000 vehicles ranging between 1 and 50+ tons.  Also, the Romans didn't really have to worry about costs seeing as the aqueducts were more than likely built by slave labor.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not to take anything away from the impressive feat of engineering that the Roman aqueducts are but there is a big difference between carrying water and carrying 250,000 vehicles ranging between 1 and 50 + tons .
Also , the Romans did n't really have to worry about costs seeing as the aqueducts were more than likely built by slave labor .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not to take anything away from the impressive feat of engineering that the Roman aqueducts are but there is a big difference between carrying water and carrying 250,000 vehicles ranging between 1 and 50+ tons.
Also, the Romans didn't really have to worry about costs seeing as the aqueducts were more than likely built by slave labor.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936395</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29940177</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile, in Segovia....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257066540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are aware that these two are totally different types of bridges, aren't you? You couldn't have built a Roman type aqueduct crossing the SF bay, that was only possible using the latest engineering at that time. Just imagine the drag that the tides would put on a bridge with as many supports as a Roman one. It would have collapsed decades ago if could have been build by some miracle.</p><p>Also don't forget that the Roman constructions we still see today are only a small part of those they originally built. How many of them collapsed due to shoddy engineering nobody really knows.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are aware that these two are totally different types of bridges , are n't you ?
You could n't have built a Roman type aqueduct crossing the SF bay , that was only possible using the latest engineering at that time .
Just imagine the drag that the tides would put on a bridge with as many supports as a Roman one .
It would have collapsed decades ago if could have been build by some miracle.Also do n't forget that the Roman constructions we still see today are only a small part of those they originally built .
How many of them collapsed due to shoddy engineering nobody really knows .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are aware that these two are totally different types of bridges, aren't you?
You couldn't have built a Roman type aqueduct crossing the SF bay, that was only possible using the latest engineering at that time.
Just imagine the drag that the tides would put on a bridge with as many supports as a Roman one.
It would have collapsed decades ago if could have been build by some miracle.Also don't forget that the Roman constructions we still see today are only a small part of those they originally built.
How many of them collapsed due to shoddy engineering nobody really knows.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936395</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936135</id>
	<title>My insight</title>
	<author>girlintraining</author>
	<datestamp>1257018540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It opened in 1936. It's been up for 73 years. I'm surprised it hasn't fallen into the ocean with all the corrosion problems yet -- it should have been retired decades ago and only survives because it is a landmark, not because it is soundly built.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It opened in 1936 .
It 's been up for 73 years .
I 'm surprised it has n't fallen into the ocean with all the corrosion problems yet -- it should have been retired decades ago and only survives because it is a landmark , not because it is soundly built .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It opened in 1936.
It's been up for 73 years.
I'm surprised it hasn't fallen into the ocean with all the corrosion problems yet -- it should have been retired decades ago and only survives because it is a landmark, not because it is soundly built.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936121</id>
	<title>Looks like...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257018480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nobody is going to want to purchase it any time soon. Just the latest victim of our current economy I guess.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nobody is going to want to purchase it any time soon .
Just the latest victim of our current economy I guess .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nobody is going to want to purchase it any time soon.
Just the latest victim of our current economy I guess.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29942191</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile, in Segovia....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257096060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Meanwhile, in Segovia (Spain), the Roman aqueduct is still up &amp; running :<br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqueduct\_of\_Segovia" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqueduct\_of\_Segovia</a> [wikipedia.org] </p><p>Without mortar, with just granite blocks on top of each other, it is more than 2000 years old.<br>I can't help but wonder when mankind began to suck at building anything that should last more than a few years....</p></div><p>In 2000 years time, there will probably be a few buildings from our era still standing (anyone want to suggest likely candidates?) which people will look at and say "see how good those 1990's engineers were, this stuff is still standing.</p><p>Meanwhile, all the 'normal' buildings will have fallen down or been replaced with something better, same as most roman buildings were.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Meanwhile , in Segovia ( Spain ) , the Roman aqueduct is still up &amp; running : http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqueduct \ _of \ _Segovia [ wikipedia.org ] Without mortar , with just granite blocks on top of each other , it is more than 2000 years old.I ca n't help but wonder when mankind began to suck at building anything that should last more than a few years....In 2000 years time , there will probably be a few buildings from our era still standing ( anyone want to suggest likely candidates ?
) which people will look at and say " see how good those 1990 's engineers were , this stuff is still standing.Meanwhile , all the 'normal ' buildings will have fallen down or been replaced with something better , same as most roman buildings were .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Meanwhile, in Segovia (Spain), the Roman aqueduct is still up &amp; running :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqueduct\_of\_Segovia [wikipedia.org] Without mortar, with just granite blocks on top of each other, it is more than 2000 years old.I can't help but wonder when mankind began to suck at building anything that should last more than a few years....In 2000 years time, there will probably be a few buildings from our era still standing (anyone want to suggest likely candidates?
) which people will look at and say "see how good those 1990's engineers were, this stuff is still standing.Meanwhile, all the 'normal' buildings will have fallen down or been replaced with something better, same as most roman buildings were.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936395</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29940001</id>
	<title>Re:Not a good article</title>
	<author>ishobo</author>
	<datestamp>1257106500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This article is all supposition, and poor supposition than that.</p></div><p>Which means it is perfect for Slashdot.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This article is all supposition , and poor supposition than that.Which means it is perfect for Slashdot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This article is all supposition, and poor supposition than that.Which means it is perfect for Slashdot.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937365</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29938723</id>
	<title>Re:Welders are a scapegoat</title>
	<author>kimvette</author>
	<datestamp>1257001620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Welds are usually stronger than the structure being held together. If they are IMPROPERLY done that isn't the case, but that rings true for  everything.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Welds are usually stronger than the structure being held together .
If they are IMPROPERLY done that is n't the case , but that rings true for everything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Welds are usually stronger than the structure being held together.
If they are IMPROPERLY done that isn't the case, but that rings true for  everything.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936491</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936159</id>
	<title>whoa</title>
	<author>nimbius</author>
	<datestamp>1257018720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I knew people had been talking about the state falling apart due to budget problems, but i didnt think they meant it <i>literally</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>I knew people had been talking about the state falling apart due to budget problems , but i didnt think they meant it literally</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I knew people had been talking about the state falling apart due to budget problems, but i didnt think they meant it literally</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936611</id>
	<title>Re:small</title>
	<author>peragrin</author>
	<datestamp>1256979660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>well your off in a lot of ways.</p><p>he USA is 300 million people in a land area the size of Europe who has a population of 700 million plus.</p><p>So not only are you off to start with you are making random assumptions.  Sure there is a lot of engineering work that the USA needs to update.  however since we have a fraction of the population that most land areas have we have to do more with less.</p><p>Besides having been through europe.  The american system is at least 3 centuries more advanced than some of the roads, and bridges in europe where it is common for one vehicle to use it at a time  s they are designed for horses not people.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>well your off in a lot of ways.he USA is 300 million people in a land area the size of Europe who has a population of 700 million plus.So not only are you off to start with you are making random assumptions .
Sure there is a lot of engineering work that the USA needs to update .
however since we have a fraction of the population that most land areas have we have to do more with less.Besides having been through europe .
The american system is at least 3 centuries more advanced than some of the roads , and bridges in europe where it is common for one vehicle to use it at a time s they are designed for horses not people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>well your off in a lot of ways.he USA is 300 million people in a land area the size of Europe who has a population of 700 million plus.So not only are you off to start with you are making random assumptions.
Sure there is a lot of engineering work that the USA needs to update.
however since we have a fraction of the population that most land areas have we have to do more with less.Besides having been through europe.
The american system is at least 3 centuries more advanced than some of the roads, and bridges in europe where it is common for one vehicle to use it at a time  s they are designed for horses not people.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936133</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937117</id>
	<title>Re:Lack of redundancy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256984040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>have you tried driving through any of those tunnels/bridges or on those highways during rush hour? "usable" is not the word i'd use to describe them!</p><p>- Balmer transplant in DC</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>have you tried driving through any of those tunnels/bridges or on those highways during rush hour ?
" usable " is not the word i 'd use to describe them ! - Balmer transplant in DC</tokentext>
<sentencetext>have you tried driving through any of those tunnels/bridges or on those highways during rush hour?
"usable" is not the word i'd use to describe them!- Balmer transplant in DC</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936171</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936169</id>
	<title>Wrong audience</title>
	<author>Noose For A Neck</author>
	<datestamp>1257018780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>Slashdot is a great engineering community; what other insights do you have on the bridge situation?</i>
<p>
No, Slashdot is mostly made up of computer janitors; the greatest insight you'll get out of most of the posters here is, "hurrr durr, the bridge must've been running Windoze! LOL!", with maybe a little "omg the twin towers were collapsed by EXPLOSIVES!!!!"-style conspiracy theory and "THE GOVERNMENT IS BAD!!!" braindead libertarianism thrown in for color.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Slashdot is a great engineering community ; what other insights do you have on the bridge situation ?
No , Slashdot is mostly made up of computer janitors ; the greatest insight you 'll get out of most of the posters here is , " hurrr durr , the bridge must 've been running Windoze !
LOL ! " , with maybe a little " omg the twin towers were collapsed by EXPLOSIVES ! ! ! !
" -style conspiracy theory and " THE GOVERNMENT IS BAD ! ! !
" braindead libertarianism thrown in for color .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Slashdot is a great engineering community; what other insights do you have on the bridge situation?
No, Slashdot is mostly made up of computer janitors; the greatest insight you'll get out of most of the posters here is, "hurrr durr, the bridge must've been running Windoze!
LOL!", with maybe a little "omg the twin towers were collapsed by EXPLOSIVES!!!!
"-style conspiracy theory and "THE GOVERNMENT IS BAD!!!
" braindead libertarianism thrown in for color.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29938667</id>
	<title>Re:Lets see here...</title>
	<author>Khyber</author>
	<datestamp>1257000960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Even if we're in debt we're still the 4th or 5th largest economy on the planet.</p><p>So what does that tel you about the rest of the states, let alone the rest of the world?</p><p>Hope that crow's tasty.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Even if we 're in debt we 're still the 4th or 5th largest economy on the planet.So what does that tel you about the rest of the states , let alone the rest of the world ? Hope that crow 's tasty .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even if we're in debt we're still the 4th or 5th largest economy on the planet.So what does that tel you about the rest of the states, let alone the rest of the world?Hope that crow's tasty.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937557</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936409</id>
	<title>RIAA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257021300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Send the RIAA in to fix it. I mean, they have the money... right? They could actually do something constructive with their time and finances.</p><p>HAR HAR!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Send the RIAA in to fix it .
I mean , they have the money... right ? They could actually do something constructive with their time and finances.HAR HAR !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Send the RIAA in to fix it.
I mean, they have the money... right? They could actually do something constructive with their time and finances.HAR HAR!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936077</id>
	<title>Speaking as the owner, I'm furious</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257018180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Four years ago I bought that bridge along with a package of subprime mortgages to highly qualified homeowners.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Four years ago I bought that bridge along with a package of subprime mortgages to highly qualified homeowners .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Four years ago I bought that bridge along with a package of subprime mortgages to highly qualified homeowners.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937467</id>
	<title>Re:Lack of redundancy</title>
	<author>SharpFang</author>
	<datestamp>1256987940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In Cracow we have 5 bridges (in reasonable distance) and if even one is blocked the whole city gets jammed beyond any hope.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In Cracow we have 5 bridges ( in reasonable distance ) and if even one is blocked the whole city gets jammed beyond any hope .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In Cracow we have 5 bridges (in reasonable distance) and if even one is blocked the whole city gets jammed beyond any hope.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936171</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29965200</id>
	<title>Re:And where did the retro-fit funds go?</title>
	<author>plague3106</author>
	<datestamp>1257271560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I thought they were going to build a new eastern span?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I thought they were going to build a new eastern span ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I thought they were going to build a new eastern span?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936113</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29942876</id>
	<title>Re:still dead!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257103560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, the quote is:<br>This just in!: Generallisimo Francisco Franco is still Holding His Breath.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , the quote is : This just in !
: Generallisimo Francisco Franco is still Holding His Breath .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, the quote is:This just in!
: Generallisimo Francisco Franco is still Holding His Breath.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936061</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29938129</id>
	<title>Re:small</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256995860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>learn to read.</p><p>please.</p><p>btw: you are happy that 70yr old bridges in America fall apart and 1000yr old 'horse bridges' in Europe don't?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>learn to read.please.btw : you are happy that 70yr old bridges in America fall apart and 1000yr old 'horse bridges ' in Europe do n't ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>learn to read.please.btw: you are happy that 70yr old bridges in America fall apart and 1000yr old 'horse bridges' in Europe don't?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936611</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.30003182</id>
	<title>Engineering Philosophy</title>
	<author>dark grep</author>
	<datestamp>1257445320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The commonly held view of the group of friends I used to ride with many years ago was that the American engineering philosophy was, whenever a crack appeared, modify the design with more angle iron and more weld.  It was how we explained the development of the Harley Davidson motorcycle.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The commonly held view of the group of friends I used to ride with many years ago was that the American engineering philosophy was , whenever a crack appeared , modify the design with more angle iron and more weld .
It was how we explained the development of the Harley Davidson motorcycle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The commonly held view of the group of friends I used to ride with many years ago was that the American engineering philosophy was, whenever a crack appeared, modify the design with more angle iron and more weld.
It was how we explained the development of the Harley Davidson motorcycle.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29938423</id>
	<title>Bridge in Montreal</title>
	<author>lucm</author>
	<datestamp>1256998740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In 1990, the Mohawk people (native Americans) blocked the Mercier Bridge in Montreal to protest against the expansion of a golf course on an alleged sacred land. The blockade lasted for *the whole summer*.</p><p>The Mercier Bridge is a major access point to the southwest of Montreal island, over 75000 cars are using this bridge daily. Of course all the people usually driving on this bridge got stuck in huge traffic jams, but this situation also created gridlocks on the other bridges and highways in the Montreal area. For months.</p><p>At first the cops tried to remove the Mohawk, but they had weapons and killed one cop (caporal Marcel Lemay). So the cops pulled back and the army was brought in. This was a highly political situation; the army was not allowed to use force and merely stood guard.</p><p>A crazy summer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In 1990 , the Mohawk people ( native Americans ) blocked the Mercier Bridge in Montreal to protest against the expansion of a golf course on an alleged sacred land .
The blockade lasted for * the whole summer * .The Mercier Bridge is a major access point to the southwest of Montreal island , over 75000 cars are using this bridge daily .
Of course all the people usually driving on this bridge got stuck in huge traffic jams , but this situation also created gridlocks on the other bridges and highways in the Montreal area .
For months.At first the cops tried to remove the Mohawk , but they had weapons and killed one cop ( caporal Marcel Lemay ) .
So the cops pulled back and the army was brought in .
This was a highly political situation ; the army was not allowed to use force and merely stood guard.A crazy summer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In 1990, the Mohawk people (native Americans) blocked the Mercier Bridge in Montreal to protest against the expansion of a golf course on an alleged sacred land.
The blockade lasted for *the whole summer*.The Mercier Bridge is a major access point to the southwest of Montreal island, over 75000 cars are using this bridge daily.
Of course all the people usually driving on this bridge got stuck in huge traffic jams, but this situation also created gridlocks on the other bridges and highways in the Montreal area.
For months.At first the cops tried to remove the Mohawk, but they had weapons and killed one cop (caporal Marcel Lemay).
So the cops pulled back and the army was brought in.
This was a highly political situation; the army was not allowed to use force and merely stood guard.A crazy summer.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29938011</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong audience</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256994600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree.<br>Unless someone is a PE (professional engineer) with experience on the maintenance of suspension bridges, their technical 'expertise' is irrelevant.<br>So can an OP be a troll?<br>Sorry, I forgot this is Slashdot. OP are nothing but trolls one way or another.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree.Unless someone is a PE ( professional engineer ) with experience on the maintenance of suspension bridges , their technical 'expertise ' is irrelevant.So can an OP be a troll ? Sorry , I forgot this is Slashdot .
OP are nothing but trolls one way or another .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree.Unless someone is a PE (professional engineer) with experience on the maintenance of suspension bridges, their technical 'expertise' is irrelevant.So can an OP be a troll?Sorry, I forgot this is Slashdot.
OP are nothing but trolls one way or another.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936169</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936667</id>
	<title>Re:Lets see here...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256980020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They're in the process of replacing the entire eastern span, by building another one adjacent to the old one. It's a good thing they've already started (a bit late, but better late than never) because who knows how long the old one will last.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They 're in the process of replacing the entire eastern span , by building another one adjacent to the old one .
It 's a good thing they 've already started ( a bit late , but better late than never ) because who knows how long the old one will last .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They're in the process of replacing the entire eastern span, by building another one adjacent to the old one.
It's a good thing they've already started (a bit late, but better late than never) because who knows how long the old one will last.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936167</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937059</id>
	<title>Of course its an engineering failure</title>
	<author>jhoegl</author>
	<datestamp>1256983380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>No redundant bridge is just asking for trouble.

Single point of failure is not an option!</htmltext>
<tokenext>No redundant bridge is just asking for trouble .
Single point of failure is not an option !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No redundant bridge is just asking for trouble.
Single point of failure is not an option!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29954572</id>
	<title>Re:Speaking as the owner, I'm furious</title>
	<author>RockDoctor</author>
	<datestamp>1257154380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><blockquote><div><p>Four years ago I bought that bridge along with a package of subprime mortgages to highly qualified homeowners.</p></div></blockquote><p>Their qualification was a pulse, right?</p></div></blockquote><p>Pulse, absence of. Check.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Four years ago I bought that bridge along with a package of subprime mortgages to highly qualified homeowners.Their qualification was a pulse , right ? Pulse , absence of .
Check .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Four years ago I bought that bridge along with a package of subprime mortgages to highly qualified homeowners.Their qualification was a pulse, right?Pulse, absence of.
Check.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29939577</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29938787</id>
	<title>Re:What Happened To the Bay Bridge?</title>
	<author>Rakarra</author>
	<datestamp>1257002400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I suspect that California educated engineers had a lot to do with the problem.  A panel had to decide how to fix the problem.  The panel was composed, by law, of one gay, one lesbian, one transvestite, one Mormon, one Moslem, one Black, one Hispanic - the list goes on and on. </p></div><p>You REALLY don't know how things work in California.</p><p>We got rid of the Mormon after the Prop 8 debacle.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I suspect that California educated engineers had a lot to do with the problem .
A panel had to decide how to fix the problem .
The panel was composed , by law , of one gay , one lesbian , one transvestite , one Mormon , one Moslem , one Black , one Hispanic - the list goes on and on .
You REALLY do n't know how things work in California.We got rid of the Mormon after the Prop 8 debacle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I suspect that California educated engineers had a lot to do with the problem.
A panel had to decide how to fix the problem.
The panel was composed, by law, of one gay, one lesbian, one transvestite, one Mormon, one Moslem, one Black, one Hispanic - the list goes on and on.
You REALLY don't know how things work in California.We got rid of the Mormon after the Prop 8 debacle.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936425</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936571</id>
	<title>Re:Welders are a scapegoat</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257022500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I strongly doubt that the welding is the culprit. "Faulty welding" doesn't happen on something of the scale of a bridge.</p> </div><p>You're right on. If the author of the article would have watched any of the Caltrans news conferences, they would have answered some of his theories.</p><p>The weld that he claims failed was clearly described as only being tacked, not structurally welded. That weld wasn't supposed to hold the structure together, the tie rods were, which failed. One of the improvements they are making now is to replace the tacking with a structural weld, so that even if something broke, these pieces won't come apart. The other improvements center around reducing vibration, especially in the tie rods</p><p>Who wrote that article anyway? Some guy on the internet who looks at some pictures of the repair and thinks he knows what a bunch of engineers working on the problem didn't know?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I strongly doubt that the welding is the culprit .
" Faulty welding " does n't happen on something of the scale of a bridge .
You 're right on .
If the author of the article would have watched any of the Caltrans news conferences , they would have answered some of his theories.The weld that he claims failed was clearly described as only being tacked , not structurally welded .
That weld was n't supposed to hold the structure together , the tie rods were , which failed .
One of the improvements they are making now is to replace the tacking with a structural weld , so that even if something broke , these pieces wo n't come apart .
The other improvements center around reducing vibration , especially in the tie rodsWho wrote that article anyway ?
Some guy on the internet who looks at some pictures of the repair and thinks he knows what a bunch of engineers working on the problem did n't know ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I strongly doubt that the welding is the culprit.
"Faulty welding" doesn't happen on something of the scale of a bridge.
You're right on.
If the author of the article would have watched any of the Caltrans news conferences, they would have answered some of his theories.The weld that he claims failed was clearly described as only being tacked, not structurally welded.
That weld wasn't supposed to hold the structure together, the tie rods were, which failed.
One of the improvements they are making now is to replace the tacking with a structural weld, so that even if something broke, these pieces won't come apart.
The other improvements center around reducing vibration, especially in the tie rodsWho wrote that article anyway?
Some guy on the internet who looks at some pictures of the repair and thinks he knows what a bunch of engineers working on the problem didn't know?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936305</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29941275</id>
	<title>Re:There *IS* redundancy.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257086760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I haven't lived in the bay area for a while, but doesn't BART go across the bay bridge?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have n't lived in the bay area for a while , but does n't BART go across the bay bridge ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I haven't lived in the bay area for a while, but doesn't BART go across the bay bridge?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936205</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936529</id>
	<title>Re:small</title>
	<author>eatspoop</author>
	<datestamp>1257022140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Are you from another country? The infrastructure here is fine.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Are you from another country ?
The infrastructure here is fine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are you from another country?
The infrastructure here is fine.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936133</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29941185</id>
	<title>Re:</title>
	<author>clint999</author>
	<datestamp>1257085800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It would certainly make commutes easier.</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It would certainly make commutes easier .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It would certainly make commutes easier.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936687</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong audience</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256980260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>"omg the twin towers were collapsed by EXPLOSIVES!!!!"<br> <br>

No, the twin Towers collapsed from aeroplane impacts into structures previously *promised by an engineer* to withstand aeroplane impacts.<br> <br>
Conspiracy no, bungling engineer at worst.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" omg the twin towers were collapsed by EXPLOSIVES ! ! ! !
" No , the twin Towers collapsed from aeroplane impacts into structures previously * promised by an engineer * to withstand aeroplane impacts .
Conspiracy no , bungling engineer at worst .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"omg the twin towers were collapsed by EXPLOSIVES!!!!
" 

No, the twin Towers collapsed from aeroplane impacts into structures previously *promised by an engineer* to withstand aeroplane impacts.
Conspiracy no, bungling engineer at worst.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936169</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937519</id>
	<title>The real problem.</title>
	<author>writermike</author>
	<datestamp>1256988720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The real problem is the bay. Get rid of the bay, you have no more bridge problem.</p><p>That's the kind of mavericky thinking we need today and America.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The real problem is the bay .
Get rid of the bay , you have no more bridge problem.That 's the kind of mavericky thinking we need today and America .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The real problem is the bay.
Get rid of the bay, you have no more bridge problem.That's the kind of mavericky thinking we need today and America.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936127</id>
	<title>Made in China</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257018540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Cal Trans designed and Chinese built. nuff said.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Cal Trans designed and Chinese built .
nuff said .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cal Trans designed and Chinese built.
nuff said.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937145</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong audience</title>
	<author>HazMat 79</author>
	<datestamp>1256984460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>that promise was made when planes werent as big as the ones that ran into it though</htmltext>
<tokenext>that promise was made when planes werent as big as the ones that ran into it though</tokentext>
<sentencetext>that promise was made when planes werent as big as the ones that ran into it though</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936687</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936491</id>
	<title>Re:Welders are a scapegoat</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257021840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>welds, even properly done welds, tend to be significantly weaker and more brittle than a typical solid piece of unwelded material.  The subsequent temporary fixes that they tried failed before they were designed to which suggests that they may not have built in enough redundancy on the structure as they should have.  It could just be a case where they over-estimated the strength of these welds and decided to cut a few corners on the design its self.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>welds , even properly done welds , tend to be significantly weaker and more brittle than a typical solid piece of unwelded material .
The subsequent temporary fixes that they tried failed before they were designed to which suggests that they may not have built in enough redundancy on the structure as they should have .
It could just be a case where they over-estimated the strength of these welds and decided to cut a few corners on the design its self .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>welds, even properly done welds, tend to be significantly weaker and more brittle than a typical solid piece of unwelded material.
The subsequent temporary fixes that they tried failed before they were designed to which suggests that they may not have built in enough redundancy on the structure as they should have.
It could just be a case where they over-estimated the strength of these welds and decided to cut a few corners on the design its self.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936305</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29939611</id>
	<title>Re:Bay bridge fix</title>
	<author>MightyYar</author>
	<datestamp>1257013080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think that the trussed structures on the bridge are for compression. It would be... unusual for these eyebars to take much compression - they are thin and won't have much strength in compression.</p><p>May I ask why you think this crack is caused by compression?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think that the trussed structures on the bridge are for compression .
It would be... unusual for these eyebars to take much compression - they are thin and wo n't have much strength in compression.May I ask why you think this crack is caused by compression ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think that the trussed structures on the bridge are for compression.
It would be... unusual for these eyebars to take much compression - they are thin and won't have much strength in compression.May I ask why you think this crack is caused by compression?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936231</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29938211</id>
	<title>Re:still dead!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256996760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's "Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's " Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's "Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936061</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29939073</id>
	<title>Re:What Happened To the Bay Bridge?</title>
	<author>calidoscope</author>
	<datestamp>1257006240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>And, among the engineers, the various engineering disciplines had representation, including the Doctors of Basketweaving from Berkeley. </p></div><p>That's <i>Underwater</i> Basket Weaving - one of the majors presented in the Cal SOP (along with gems like Prevarication). And yes, I <i>did</i> get my engineering degrees from Bezerkeley.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And , among the engineers , the various engineering disciplines had representation , including the Doctors of Basketweaving from Berkeley .
That 's Underwater Basket Weaving - one of the majors presented in the Cal SOP ( along with gems like Prevarication ) .
And yes , I did get my engineering degrees from Bezerkeley .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And, among the engineers, the various engineering disciplines had representation, including the Doctors of Basketweaving from Berkeley.
That's Underwater Basket Weaving - one of the majors presented in the Cal SOP (along with gems like Prevarication).
And yes, I did get my engineering degrees from Bezerkeley.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936425</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29942504</id>
	<title>Re:Lets see here...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257099660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Maybe if that weren't the case,"</p><p>So suddenly liberals are pro states rights when it suits 'em.</p><p>And again, another case where looking a limited issue makes the poster somehow prohibited to look at the entire context of their state economy, or here, the state's interaction with the rest of the US.</p><p>When you hold large quantities of import goods for ransom to the rest of the country, you get a payout.  The Federal government asks for some it back.  Hell, it's not like you can build large naval bases in the Dakotas.</p><p>Frankly, I'm all for state rights myself.  Then, farmers can charge whatever the hell they want on the worldwide market, and then we'll see who whines about where the money is going.  Furthermore, we can also take back the water, which flows into your state.  You can instead build desalination plants, and then you'll understand the cost of doing things.</p><p>Kidding aside, California is a state in a country.  You are PART of a country, not a country itself.  You are the breadbasket of the US because you suck water from 5 or more states nearly entirely.  You are a large, coastal state that was allowed to come into the union.  As such, you have a massive voting block in Congress; iow, you have adequate representation.  And you have blockade (as we shown several years ago) power on imports, meaning a huge amount of trade and jobs nearly must go through you state.</p><p>You want to withhold $50 billion?  Fine, allow others states to do the same with THEIR resources.  You'll find your costs skyrocket.  You can't even handle your costs with states nearly giving you rivers of water for nearly free.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Maybe if that were n't the case , " So suddenly liberals are pro states rights when it suits 'em.And again , another case where looking a limited issue makes the poster somehow prohibited to look at the entire context of their state economy , or here , the state 's interaction with the rest of the US.When you hold large quantities of import goods for ransom to the rest of the country , you get a payout .
The Federal government asks for some it back .
Hell , it 's not like you can build large naval bases in the Dakotas.Frankly , I 'm all for state rights myself .
Then , farmers can charge whatever the hell they want on the worldwide market , and then we 'll see who whines about where the money is going .
Furthermore , we can also take back the water , which flows into your state .
You can instead build desalination plants , and then you 'll understand the cost of doing things.Kidding aside , California is a state in a country .
You are PART of a country , not a country itself .
You are the breadbasket of the US because you suck water from 5 or more states nearly entirely .
You are a large , coastal state that was allowed to come into the union .
As such , you have a massive voting block in Congress ; iow , you have adequate representation .
And you have blockade ( as we shown several years ago ) power on imports , meaning a huge amount of trade and jobs nearly must go through you state.You want to withhold $ 50 billion ?
Fine , allow others states to do the same with THEIR resources .
You 'll find your costs skyrocket .
You ca n't even handle your costs with states nearly giving you rivers of water for nearly free .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Maybe if that weren't the case,"So suddenly liberals are pro states rights when it suits 'em.And again, another case where looking a limited issue makes the poster somehow prohibited to look at the entire context of their state economy, or here, the state's interaction with the rest of the US.When you hold large quantities of import goods for ransom to the rest of the country, you get a payout.
The Federal government asks for some it back.
Hell, it's not like you can build large naval bases in the Dakotas.Frankly, I'm all for state rights myself.
Then, farmers can charge whatever the hell they want on the worldwide market, and then we'll see who whines about where the money is going.
Furthermore, we can also take back the water, which flows into your state.
You can instead build desalination plants, and then you'll understand the cost of doing things.Kidding aside, California is a state in a country.
You are PART of a country, not a country itself.
You are the breadbasket of the US because you suck water from 5 or more states nearly entirely.
You are a large, coastal state that was allowed to come into the union.
As such, you have a massive voting block in Congress; iow, you have adequate representation.
And you have blockade (as we shown several years ago) power on imports, meaning a huge amount of trade and jobs nearly must go through you state.You want to withhold $50 billion?
Fine, allow others states to do the same with THEIR resources.
You'll find your costs skyrocket.
You can't even handle your costs with states nearly giving you rivers of water for nearly free.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936417</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936385</id>
	<title>MY insight, as an engineer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257021180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The real problem is that we should <strong>recognize</strong> that bridges, and especially landmark bridges, stay standing indefinitely and should therefore <strong>quit designing the damn things with puny 50-year design lives!</strong> </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The real problem is that we should recognize that bridges , and especially landmark bridges , stay standing indefinitely and should therefore quit designing the damn things with puny 50-year design lives !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The real problem is that we should recognize that bridges, and especially landmark bridges, stay standing indefinitely and should therefore quit designing the damn things with puny 50-year design lives! </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936135</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936467</id>
	<title>Re:Welders are a scapegoat</title>
	<author>phantomfive</author>
	<datestamp>1257021660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>It wasn't the whole bridge that failed, it was a little support brace that was added to fix an earlier crack in the bridge. It wasn't a huge piece and very well could have been the work of a single worker.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It was n't the whole bridge that failed , it was a little support brace that was added to fix an earlier crack in the bridge .
It was n't a huge piece and very well could have been the work of a single worker .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It wasn't the whole bridge that failed, it was a little support brace that was added to fix an earlier crack in the bridge.
It wasn't a huge piece and very well could have been the work of a single worker.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936305</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937017</id>
	<title>Re:First Failure</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256983140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Forgot to RTFA, eh?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Forgot to RTFA , eh ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Forgot to RTFA, eh?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936055</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29938925</id>
	<title>Re:small</title>
	<author>stephanruby</author>
	<datestamp>1257004260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>No, I think we all know what Ayn Rand would have thought of the "too big to fail" argument. For instance, when she gave the example of the Steel industry being completely replaced by the new kind of steel. She prayed for their early demise, not for their all-out protection.</htmltext>
<tokenext>No , I think we all know what Ayn Rand would have thought of the " too big to fail " argument .
For instance , when she gave the example of the Steel industry being completely replaced by the new kind of steel .
She prayed for their early demise , not for their all-out protection .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, I think we all know what Ayn Rand would have thought of the "too big to fail" argument.
For instance, when she gave the example of the Steel industry being completely replaced by the new kind of steel.
She prayed for their early demise, not for their all-out protection.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936495</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936313</id>
	<title>What happened indeed</title>
	<author>hardihoot</author>
	<datestamp>1257020460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Perhaps if the state of California hadn't diverted transportation funds and had actually used
the money to maintain its infrastructure (similar to New Orleans not using its allocated money to maintain the levee system) this probably would not have happened.<p>

<a href="http://transformca.org/campaign/state-budget/protecting-funds-courts" title="transformca.org" rel="nofollow"> Raids of Public Transportation Funds </a> [transformca.org]

</p><blockquote><div><p>Ruling on a case started in 2007 by the California Transit Association, the California Appeals Court found that the <b>gimmicks</b> used to reroute public transit funding to other programs were not consistent with voters' intent for the funds to be spent on public transportation</p></div></blockquote><p>


<a href="http://www.transportationca.com/displaycommon.cfm?an=1" title="transportationca.com" rel="nofollow"> nearly $2.5 billion was diverted away from transportation programs</a> [transportationca.com]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps if the state of California had n't diverted transportation funds and had actually used the money to maintain its infrastructure ( similar to New Orleans not using its allocated money to maintain the levee system ) this probably would not have happened .
Raids of Public Transportation Funds [ transformca.org ] Ruling on a case started in 2007 by the California Transit Association , the California Appeals Court found that the gimmicks used to reroute public transit funding to other programs were not consistent with voters ' intent for the funds to be spent on public transportation nearly $ 2.5 billion was diverted away from transportation programs [ transportationca.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps if the state of California hadn't diverted transportation funds and had actually used
the money to maintain its infrastructure (similar to New Orleans not using its allocated money to maintain the levee system) this probably would not have happened.
Raids of Public Transportation Funds  [transformca.org]

Ruling on a case started in 2007 by the California Transit Association, the California Appeals Court found that the gimmicks used to reroute public transit funding to other programs were not consistent with voters' intent for the funds to be spent on public transportation


 nearly $2.5 billion was diverted away from transportation programs [transportationca.com]
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937947</id>
	<title>Re:Bay bridge fix</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256993820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>THANKFULLY -- They are looking for a PE so.. go back to your Popsicle stick bridges and other assorted toothpick structures.  I have a couple gross of drinking straws too if you'd like to incorporate them into your work -- they might actually compress better!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:p</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>THANKFULLY -- They are looking for a PE so.. go back to your Popsicle stick bridges and other assorted toothpick structures .
I have a couple gross of drinking straws too if you 'd like to incorporate them into your work -- they might actually compress better !
: p</tokentext>
<sentencetext>THANKFULLY -- They are looking for a PE so.. go back to your Popsicle stick bridges and other assorted toothpick structures.
I have a couple gross of drinking straws too if you'd like to incorporate them into your work -- they might actually compress better!
:p</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936231</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29938911</id>
	<title>Re:Lack of redundancy</title>
	<author>tie\_guy\_matt</author>
	<datestamp>1257004140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't forget 29. You have to take 70 to get back to the Baltimore beltway (which ALWAYS backs up) but 29 has fewer lights so I would take it before I took route 1.</p><p>Keep in mind that there is no (or at least not much) water between Baltimore and Washington. It is much easier to build multiple roads between cities when you don't have to build a major bridge for each one! So in addition to those 4 highways there are dozens of back roads you can take to get between DC and charm city.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't forget 29 .
You have to take 70 to get back to the Baltimore beltway ( which ALWAYS backs up ) but 29 has fewer lights so I would take it before I took route 1.Keep in mind that there is no ( or at least not much ) water between Baltimore and Washington .
It is much easier to build multiple roads between cities when you do n't have to build a major bridge for each one !
So in addition to those 4 highways there are dozens of back roads you can take to get between DC and charm city .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't forget 29.
You have to take 70 to get back to the Baltimore beltway (which ALWAYS backs up) but 29 has fewer lights so I would take it before I took route 1.Keep in mind that there is no (or at least not much) water between Baltimore and Washington.
It is much easier to build multiple roads between cities when you don't have to build a major bridge for each one!
So in addition to those 4 highways there are dozens of back roads you can take to get between DC and charm city.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936171</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29938359</id>
	<title>Re:still dead!</title>
	<author>Darinbob</author>
	<datestamp>1256998080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You mean Generalissimo?</htmltext>
<tokenext>You mean Generalissimo ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You mean Generalissimo?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936061</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29940907</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong audience</title>
	<author>ticktickboom</author>
	<datestamp>1257081780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>and no mention of boobies?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>and no mention of boobies ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and no mention of boobies?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936169</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936323</id>
	<title>Re:Lack of redundancy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257020640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Bay Bridge is not the only way from Oakland to San Francisco, there's the Richmond-San Rafael bridge to the North and San Mateo bridge to the south. There's also BART and various ferries and worst case scenario a trip through the South Bay and then up the peninsula. There's lots of ways into the city even if one of the bridges is out of service for some reason. The past two labor day weekends the Bay Bridge was shut down for repairs (the latest of which apparently caused the current problems).</p><p>The positioning of the Bay Bridge is limited by the layout of both San Francisco and Oakland. The Bay Bridge already spans one of the narrowest points between the cities and is bisected by Yerba Buena Island to reduce the effective length of the individual spans. There's nowhere else to really put another bridge in the area. There's no other spots with convenient freeway locations on both sides of the bay which would require whole new sections of freeways be build which means buying out a whole bunch of land that people already live on and a host of other problems. This construction would be in addition to building a whole new bridge.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Bay Bridge is not the only way from Oakland to San Francisco , there 's the Richmond-San Rafael bridge to the North and San Mateo bridge to the south .
There 's also BART and various ferries and worst case scenario a trip through the South Bay and then up the peninsula .
There 's lots of ways into the city even if one of the bridges is out of service for some reason .
The past two labor day weekends the Bay Bridge was shut down for repairs ( the latest of which apparently caused the current problems ) .The positioning of the Bay Bridge is limited by the layout of both San Francisco and Oakland .
The Bay Bridge already spans one of the narrowest points between the cities and is bisected by Yerba Buena Island to reduce the effective length of the individual spans .
There 's nowhere else to really put another bridge in the area .
There 's no other spots with convenient freeway locations on both sides of the bay which would require whole new sections of freeways be build which means buying out a whole bunch of land that people already live on and a host of other problems .
This construction would be in addition to building a whole new bridge .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Bay Bridge is not the only way from Oakland to San Francisco, there's the Richmond-San Rafael bridge to the North and San Mateo bridge to the south.
There's also BART and various ferries and worst case scenario a trip through the South Bay and then up the peninsula.
There's lots of ways into the city even if one of the bridges is out of service for some reason.
The past two labor day weekends the Bay Bridge was shut down for repairs (the latest of which apparently caused the current problems).The positioning of the Bay Bridge is limited by the layout of both San Francisco and Oakland.
The Bay Bridge already spans one of the narrowest points between the cities and is bisected by Yerba Buena Island to reduce the effective length of the individual spans.
There's nowhere else to really put another bridge in the area.
There's no other spots with convenient freeway locations on both sides of the bay which would require whole new sections of freeways be build which means buying out a whole bunch of land that people already live on and a host of other problems.
This construction would be in addition to building a whole new bridge.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936171</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936577</id>
	<title>What engineering is really about.</title>
	<author>Animats</author>
	<datestamp>1257022560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
<i>No, Slashdot is mostly made up of computer janitors.</i>
</p><p>
I do get that feeling now and then.
</p><p>
Many years ago, I went to a serious engineering school.  There, the final exam in a course in structural engineering was this:
</p><p>
At the final exam, each student had to design a link to attach two pins some distance apart. There were obstacles between the pins and the link had to go around then.  The design was to be for a specified grade of aluminum and had to support a specified load.  Students knew in advance what the exam would be, except for where the obstacles would be.  For the exam, you sat at a drafting table, and turned in a drawing.
</p><p>
The link you designed was then <i>machined out of aluminum by a machinist.</i>  It was put in a testing machine and placed under the specified load.  If the link broke, you failed the course.
</p><p>
If the link didn't break, it was weighed.  Lower weights yielded higher grades for the course.
</p><p>
This is how good structural engineers are trained. (I'm not one.  I was in EE/CS, and we had a different make-or-break exam.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , Slashdot is mostly made up of computer janitors .
I do get that feeling now and then .
Many years ago , I went to a serious engineering school .
There , the final exam in a course in structural engineering was this : At the final exam , each student had to design a link to attach two pins some distance apart .
There were obstacles between the pins and the link had to go around then .
The design was to be for a specified grade of aluminum and had to support a specified load .
Students knew in advance what the exam would be , except for where the obstacles would be .
For the exam , you sat at a drafting table , and turned in a drawing .
The link you designed was then machined out of aluminum by a machinist .
It was put in a testing machine and placed under the specified load .
If the link broke , you failed the course .
If the link did n't break , it was weighed .
Lower weights yielded higher grades for the course .
This is how good structural engineers are trained .
( I 'm not one .
I was in EE/CS , and we had a different make-or-break exam .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
No, Slashdot is mostly made up of computer janitors.
I do get that feeling now and then.
Many years ago, I went to a serious engineering school.
There, the final exam in a course in structural engineering was this:

At the final exam, each student had to design a link to attach two pins some distance apart.
There were obstacles between the pins and the link had to go around then.
The design was to be for a specified grade of aluminum and had to support a specified load.
Students knew in advance what the exam would be, except for where the obstacles would be.
For the exam, you sat at a drafting table, and turned in a drawing.
The link you designed was then machined out of aluminum by a machinist.
It was put in a testing machine and placed under the specified load.
If the link broke, you failed the course.
If the link didn't break, it was weighed.
Lower weights yielded higher grades for the course.
This is how good structural engineers are trained.
(I'm not one.
I was in EE/CS, and we had a different make-or-break exam.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936169</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937127</id>
	<title>Re:And where did the retro-fit funds go?</title>
	<author>stephanruby</author>
	<datestamp>1256984220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Don't worry, they're using those earthquake retro-fit funds, in fact before this happened, they were already projected to go way over-budget by the time the new bridge was finished.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't worry , they 're using those earthquake retro-fit funds , in fact before this happened , they were already projected to go way over-budget by the time the new bridge was finished .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't worry, they're using those earthquake retro-fit funds, in fact before this happened, they were already projected to go way over-budget by the time the new bridge was finished.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936113</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936645</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong audience</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256979900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How the hell did this get positively modded? It's so blah, I wouldn't buy it for a dollar.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How the hell did this get positively modded ?
It 's so blah , I would n't buy it for a dollar .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How the hell did this get positively modded?
It's so blah, I wouldn't buy it for a dollar.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936169</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29955466</id>
	<title>Re:INAE</title>
	<author>sacdelta</author>
	<datestamp>1257158640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Cost cutting is not the issue.  Time is.</p><p>Political pressure to not impact the commute is severe.  The cost to productivity for each work day the bridge is closed is in the millions.</p><p>They would have gladly spent more money if it meant getting the bridge open sooner.  They rushed it the first time, hopefully they took the proper amount of time this try.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Cost cutting is not the issue .
Time is.Political pressure to not impact the commute is severe .
The cost to productivity for each work day the bridge is closed is in the millions.They would have gladly spent more money if it meant getting the bridge open sooner .
They rushed it the first time , hopefully they took the proper amount of time this try .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cost cutting is not the issue.
Time is.Political pressure to not impact the commute is severe.
The cost to productivity for each work day the bridge is closed is in the millions.They would have gladly spent more money if it meant getting the bridge open sooner.
They rushed it the first time, hopefully they took the proper amount of time this try.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936089</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29939035</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile, in Segovia....</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1257005760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Dude, what the hell are you doing?!  Logic and common sense have no place on slashdot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dude , what the hell are you doing ? !
Logic and common sense have no place on slashdot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dude, what the hell are you doing?!
Logic and common sense have no place on slashdot.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937325</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937195</id>
	<title>Re:Rushed</title>
	<author>Nefarious Wheel</author>
	<datestamp>1256985000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Things like this can't be rushed, plain and simple. Carefully executed planning is what's needed to take on these types of projects.</p></div><p>What XPeter said. </p><p>On the gripping hand, they should see if there's anything left of the civil engineering group from the old Hydro-Electric Commission in Tasmania.  The collapse of the bridge over the Derwent River when the ore ship Lake Illawara collided with it was repaired by them when the department of roads weren't up to the task.  The old Hydro took their sweet time to fix it, but fix it they did and it's better than new (ship-repelling caissons were added).  The size and type of that bridge and the treachery of the waters within which they worked make them similar cases.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Things like this ca n't be rushed , plain and simple .
Carefully executed planning is what 's needed to take on these types of projects.What XPeter said .
On the gripping hand , they should see if there 's anything left of the civil engineering group from the old Hydro-Electric Commission in Tasmania .
The collapse of the bridge over the Derwent River when the ore ship Lake Illawara collided with it was repaired by them when the department of roads were n't up to the task .
The old Hydro took their sweet time to fix it , but fix it they did and it 's better than new ( ship-repelling caissons were added ) .
The size and type of that bridge and the treachery of the waters within which they worked make them similar cases .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Things like this can't be rushed, plain and simple.
Carefully executed planning is what's needed to take on these types of projects.What XPeter said.
On the gripping hand, they should see if there's anything left of the civil engineering group from the old Hydro-Electric Commission in Tasmania.
The collapse of the bridge over the Derwent River when the ore ship Lake Illawara collided with it was repaired by them when the department of roads weren't up to the task.
The old Hydro took their sweet time to fix it, but fix it they did and it's better than new (ship-repelling caissons were added).
The size and type of that bridge and the treachery of the waters within which they worked make them similar cases.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936123</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29939995</id>
	<title>Re:Minneapolis all over again: it was the snow!</title>
	<author>ishobo</author>
	<datestamp>1257106320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Wondering why no-one took into account the snow factor...</p></div><p>Because not all of us failed geography. The SF Bay area has a Mediterranean climate. Outside of the mountains, it does not snow during the winter. It has never been sub-zero in the area, including the mountain peaks.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>professional opinion</p></div><p>Pray tell, what profession would this be?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wondering why no-one took into account the snow factor...Because not all of us failed geography .
The SF Bay area has a Mediterranean climate .
Outside of the mountains , it does not snow during the winter .
It has never been sub-zero in the area , including the mountain peaks.professional opinionPray tell , what profession would this be ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wondering why no-one took into account the snow factor...Because not all of us failed geography.
The SF Bay area has a Mediterranean climate.
Outside of the mountains, it does not snow during the winter.
It has never been sub-zero in the area, including the mountain peaks.professional opinionPray tell, what profession would this be?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937073</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937261</id>
	<title>Re:Lets see here...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256985720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>All the heavily Democratic states send more to other states than they take in.</p><p>This is because the Democrat leadership's primary agenda is to gain power by buying votes. Californians are, in effect, paying for the increased influence and power of their party leaders. When you see every bill including a laundry list of handouts and benefits to demographic groups, what you're seeing is the transfer of wealth to secure power for the Democrat party.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>All the heavily Democratic states send more to other states than they take in.This is because the Democrat leadership 's primary agenda is to gain power by buying votes .
Californians are , in effect , paying for the increased influence and power of their party leaders .
When you see every bill including a laundry list of handouts and benefits to demographic groups , what you 're seeing is the transfer of wealth to secure power for the Democrat party .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All the heavily Democratic states send more to other states than they take in.This is because the Democrat leadership's primary agenda is to gain power by buying votes.
Californians are, in effect, paying for the increased influence and power of their party leaders.
When you see every bill including a laundry list of handouts and benefits to demographic groups, what you're seeing is the transfer of wealth to secure power for the Democrat party.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936417</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29939837</id>
	<title>Bulked up to protect the span?</title>
	<author>AHuxley</author>
	<datestamp>1257017100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://cryptome.quintessenz.org/mirror/eyeball/gwb-shields/gwb-shields.htm" title="quintessenz.org">http://cryptome.quintessenz.org/mirror/eyeball/gwb-shields/gwb-shields.htm</a> [quintessenz.org] <br>
They could just be adding bridge blast shields to encase sections of the suspension bridge's cables<br>
Or they needed a few days access to set something up<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //cryptome.quintessenz.org/mirror/eyeball/gwb-shields/gwb-shields.htm [ quintessenz.org ] They could just be adding bridge blast shields to encase sections of the suspension bridge 's cables Or they needed a few days access to set something up ... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://cryptome.quintessenz.org/mirror/eyeball/gwb-shields/gwb-shields.htm [quintessenz.org] 
They could just be adding bridge blast shields to encase sections of the suspension bridge's cables
Or they needed a few days access to set something up ....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937749</id>
	<title>Re:Lack of redundancy</title>
	<author>headonfire</author>
	<datestamp>1256991120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, there are other routes, sure.</p><p>I went on a little drive to see how bad it was: it took me, ohhhh, about... six hours total to get into san francisco via the golden gate, head south, get to and cross the san mateo bridge back east across the bay then back up north of the ggate where I started.</p><p>Four of those hours were spent in bridge traffic.  I left home at about 1:30pm and got back around 7:30pm.</p><p>In short, the bay bridge is a really big deal.  Not having it is a nightmare.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , there are other routes , sure.I went on a little drive to see how bad it was : it took me , ohhhh , about... six hours total to get into san francisco via the golden gate , head south , get to and cross the san mateo bridge back east across the bay then back up north of the ggate where I started.Four of those hours were spent in bridge traffic .
I left home at about 1 : 30pm and got back around 7 : 30pm.In short , the bay bridge is a really big deal .
Not having it is a nightmare .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, there are other routes, sure.I went on a little drive to see how bad it was: it took me, ohhhh, about... six hours total to get into san francisco via the golden gate, head south, get to and cross the san mateo bridge back east across the bay then back up north of the ggate where I started.Four of those hours were spent in bridge traffic.
I left home at about 1:30pm and got back around 7:30pm.In short, the bay bridge is a really big deal.
Not having it is a nightmare.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936323</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937669</id>
	<title>Re:Lack of redundancy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256990220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>and worst case scenario a trip through the South Bay and then up the peninsula.</i> </p><p>You're forgetting the Dumbarton Bridge, south of the San Mateo Bridge, but still well north of "a trip through the South Bay".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>and worst case scenario a trip through the South Bay and then up the peninsula .
You 're forgetting the Dumbarton Bridge , south of the San Mateo Bridge , but still well north of " a trip through the South Bay " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and worst case scenario a trip through the South Bay and then up the peninsula.
You're forgetting the Dumbarton Bridge, south of the San Mateo Bridge, but still well north of "a trip through the South Bay".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936323</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29938125</id>
	<title>Re:What happened indeed</title>
	<author>/dev/trash</author>
	<datestamp>1256995800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What needs to be done is people need to stop depending on oil, and bike to work.  Bike to work by living closer to where one works.</p><p>It is a crying shame.  No it's damned near criminal in this day and age people have to go hungry, or live on the streets.  The 'cagers' need to be a little more sympathetic to the poor and hungry.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What needs to be done is people need to stop depending on oil , and bike to work .
Bike to work by living closer to where one works.It is a crying shame .
No it 's damned near criminal in this day and age people have to go hungry , or live on the streets .
The 'cagers ' need to be a little more sympathetic to the poor and hungry .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What needs to be done is people need to stop depending on oil, and bike to work.
Bike to work by living closer to where one works.It is a crying shame.
No it's damned near criminal in this day and age people have to go hungry, or live on the streets.
The 'cagers' need to be a little more sympathetic to the poor and hungry.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936313</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29941635</id>
	<title>the traffic the traffic..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257091020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Love visiting the bay area, but Im so glad I dont live there. 45 minutes to cross a bridge ugh.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Love visiting the bay area , but Im so glad I dont live there .
45 minutes to cross a bridge ugh .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Love visiting the bay area, but Im so glad I dont live there.
45 minutes to cross a bridge ugh.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936755</id>
	<title>Re:Lets see here...</title>
	<author>FudRucker</author>
	<datestamp>1256980680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>not to mention California is earthquake prone, and there is a good possibility earthquakes rattle and shake lots of infrastructure over the years without causing visible damage but still weakening them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>not to mention California is earthquake prone , and there is a good possibility earthquakes rattle and shake lots of infrastructure over the years without causing visible damage but still weakening them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>not to mention California is earthquake prone, and there is a good possibility earthquakes rattle and shake lots of infrastructure over the years without causing visible damage but still weakening them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936167</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936863</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile, in Segovia....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256981460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I can't help but wonder when mankind began to suck at building anything that should last more than a few years....</p></div><p>Simple answer: it began when man realized that, by building something intended to last only a few years, he could guarantee himself (or his children/other successors) job security when that thing needed to be replaced.</p><p>As a typical example, the <a href="http://bridgehunter.com/oh/jefferson/fort-steuben/" title="bridgehunter.com" rel="nofollow">Fort Steuben Bridge</a> [bridgehunter.com] in Ohio. Built in 1928, last rehabilitated in 1972. Now considered (by publically-available inspection reports) to be "structurally deficient" and have a "poor" superstructure condition rating, it has thus has been scheduled for demolition by OhioDOT. The nearby <a href="http://bridgehunter.com/oh/jefferson/5A060/" title="bridgehunter.com" rel="nofollow">Veterans Memorial Bridge</a> [bridgehunter.com] was built in 1990 and yet, at approximately one-fourth the age of the Fort Steuben Bridge (or one-half the age of the newest repairs to that bridge), it has already attained the same "structurally deficient" and "poor" superstructure condition ratings as the older structure.</p><p>(As an aside, in much the same way that lawmakers can justify nearly anything by putting a "national security" or "think of the children!" slant on it, state DOTs can do the same by calling their projects the "Veterans [Blank]". A quick check on Wikipedia shows at least 20 bridges named "Veterans Bridge" or "Veterans Memorial Bridge". But hey, who cares if you're squandering money on something unlikely to last 25 years without needing serious repairs... it's not *your* money, after all, and those taxpayers are loaded!)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't help but wonder when mankind began to suck at building anything that should last more than a few years....Simple answer : it began when man realized that , by building something intended to last only a few years , he could guarantee himself ( or his children/other successors ) job security when that thing needed to be replaced.As a typical example , the Fort Steuben Bridge [ bridgehunter.com ] in Ohio .
Built in 1928 , last rehabilitated in 1972 .
Now considered ( by publically-available inspection reports ) to be " structurally deficient " and have a " poor " superstructure condition rating , it has thus has been scheduled for demolition by OhioDOT .
The nearby Veterans Memorial Bridge [ bridgehunter.com ] was built in 1990 and yet , at approximately one-fourth the age of the Fort Steuben Bridge ( or one-half the age of the newest repairs to that bridge ) , it has already attained the same " structurally deficient " and " poor " superstructure condition ratings as the older structure .
( As an aside , in much the same way that lawmakers can justify nearly anything by putting a " national security " or " think of the children !
" slant on it , state DOTs can do the same by calling their projects the " Veterans [ Blank ] " .
A quick check on Wikipedia shows at least 20 bridges named " Veterans Bridge " or " Veterans Memorial Bridge " .
But hey , who cares if you 're squandering money on something unlikely to last 25 years without needing serious repairs... it 's not * your * money , after all , and those taxpayers are loaded !
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't help but wonder when mankind began to suck at building anything that should last more than a few years....Simple answer: it began when man realized that, by building something intended to last only a few years, he could guarantee himself (or his children/other successors) job security when that thing needed to be replaced.As a typical example, the Fort Steuben Bridge [bridgehunter.com] in Ohio.
Built in 1928, last rehabilitated in 1972.
Now considered (by publically-available inspection reports) to be "structurally deficient" and have a "poor" superstructure condition rating, it has thus has been scheduled for demolition by OhioDOT.
The nearby Veterans Memorial Bridge [bridgehunter.com] was built in 1990 and yet, at approximately one-fourth the age of the Fort Steuben Bridge (or one-half the age of the newest repairs to that bridge), it has already attained the same "structurally deficient" and "poor" superstructure condition ratings as the older structure.
(As an aside, in much the same way that lawmakers can justify nearly anything by putting a "national security" or "think of the children!
" slant on it, state DOTs can do the same by calling their projects the "Veterans [Blank]".
A quick check on Wikipedia shows at least 20 bridges named "Veterans Bridge" or "Veterans Memorial Bridge".
But hey, who cares if you're squandering money on something unlikely to last 25 years without needing serious repairs... it's not *your* money, after all, and those taxpayers are loaded!
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936395</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937563</id>
	<title>Re:What engineering is really about.</title>
	<author>bertok</author>
	<datestamp>1256989200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I love exams like that, where there is no simple 'right or wrong' answer, but it's a competition against the rest of the class.</p><p>At the University of New South Wales, I had a similar experience in my first year of studying Computer Science. We had this great professor who was a bit more inventive than usual with exams and projects.</p><p>We started the first year studying a pure functional language called Haskell. A mere 4 weeks into the semester, just when we had figured out what 'functional' meant, and some of us could write a recursive loop, we got our first project: write a program to do optical character recognition (OCR). My jaw hit the floor when I heard that. Our marks were decided largely by the recognition rate on a test set generated by a randomly sized characters picked from a huge set of fonts. Mind you, the problem was substantially simplified from a 'real' OCR program, but still, getting above 85\% was <i>hard</i>. If your program could only recognize less than 50\% of the test characters, you got that as your mark, which was the first step towards failing the course.</p><p>The second project was even better: we were told to write an AI to play the card game <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearts" title="wikipedia.org">Hearts</a> [wikipedia.org]. As a part of the project materials, we were given a "game server" that could could play a set of AIs against each other, so we could trial our AIs ourselves. The marking was evil: the professor ran our AIs randomly against each other for a large number of games, and ranked them by the number of wins. The AI that won the most games received 100\%, and the lowest received under 50\%.</p><p>I heard about other projects that he did for other years, I think one group had to write an AI to play a game similar to monopoly, again with 4 AIs per game.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I love exams like that , where there is no simple 'right or wrong ' answer , but it 's a competition against the rest of the class.At the University of New South Wales , I had a similar experience in my first year of studying Computer Science .
We had this great professor who was a bit more inventive than usual with exams and projects.We started the first year studying a pure functional language called Haskell .
A mere 4 weeks into the semester , just when we had figured out what 'functional ' meant , and some of us could write a recursive loop , we got our first project : write a program to do optical character recognition ( OCR ) .
My jaw hit the floor when I heard that .
Our marks were decided largely by the recognition rate on a test set generated by a randomly sized characters picked from a huge set of fonts .
Mind you , the problem was substantially simplified from a 'real ' OCR program , but still , getting above 85 \ % was hard .
If your program could only recognize less than 50 \ % of the test characters , you got that as your mark , which was the first step towards failing the course.The second project was even better : we were told to write an AI to play the card game Hearts [ wikipedia.org ] .
As a part of the project materials , we were given a " game server " that could could play a set of AIs against each other , so we could trial our AIs ourselves .
The marking was evil : the professor ran our AIs randomly against each other for a large number of games , and ranked them by the number of wins .
The AI that won the most games received 100 \ % , and the lowest received under 50 \ % .I heard about other projects that he did for other years , I think one group had to write an AI to play a game similar to monopoly , again with 4 AIs per game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I love exams like that, where there is no simple 'right or wrong' answer, but it's a competition against the rest of the class.At the University of New South Wales, I had a similar experience in my first year of studying Computer Science.
We had this great professor who was a bit more inventive than usual with exams and projects.We started the first year studying a pure functional language called Haskell.
A mere 4 weeks into the semester, just when we had figured out what 'functional' meant, and some of us could write a recursive loop, we got our first project: write a program to do optical character recognition (OCR).
My jaw hit the floor when I heard that.
Our marks were decided largely by the recognition rate on a test set generated by a randomly sized characters picked from a huge set of fonts.
Mind you, the problem was substantially simplified from a 'real' OCR program, but still, getting above 85\% was hard.
If your program could only recognize less than 50\% of the test characters, you got that as your mark, which was the first step towards failing the course.The second project was even better: we were told to write an AI to play the card game Hearts [wikipedia.org].
As a part of the project materials, we were given a "game server" that could could play a set of AIs against each other, so we could trial our AIs ourselves.
The marking was evil: the professor ran our AIs randomly against each other for a large number of games, and ranked them by the number of wins.
The AI that won the most games received 100\%, and the lowest received under 50\%.I heard about other projects that he did for other years, I think one group had to write an AI to play a game similar to monopoly, again with 4 AIs per game.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936577</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937239</id>
	<title>bad idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256985420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is a terrible idea. Anything that enables population explosion is bad for us ALL. Overpopulation is the cause of nearly every problem, directly or indirectly.</p><p>And if we can just make fresh water, why worry about polluting ground water and surface water?</p><p>Bad idea. Just because we CAN do something doesn't mean we SHOULD.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a terrible idea .
Anything that enables population explosion is bad for us ALL .
Overpopulation is the cause of nearly every problem , directly or indirectly.And if we can just make fresh water , why worry about polluting ground water and surface water ? Bad idea .
Just because we CAN do something does n't mean we SHOULD .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a terrible idea.
Anything that enables population explosion is bad for us ALL.
Overpopulation is the cause of nearly every problem, directly or indirectly.And if we can just make fresh water, why worry about polluting ground water and surface water?Bad idea.
Just because we CAN do something doesn't mean we SHOULD.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937225</id>
	<title>Re:MY insight, as an engineer</title>
	<author>JWSmythe</author>
	<datestamp>1256985300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; If I remember correctly, the life expectancy of a concrete structure is 50 years.  Some of the old NASA launch structures are deteriorating to the point of collapse, even though they were built to be extremely strong.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Concrete meteorites.  Metal rusts.  Wood rots.  Plastic?  Nah, not that great for a bridge.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)  50 years is a decent judgement for projected growth too.  Look at any city.  How many can you find that have small or minimal growth between 1959 to 2009?   In 50 years, it can be expected that a bridge or highway will be outdated and need to be replaced or upgraded.  Unfortunately, infrastructure budgets don't necessarily line up with growth even though government is suppose to make it work.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Power, water, phone, and cable don't usually suffer the same problems, because they are funded by the people using them.  Unfortunately, roads cannot be paid for in the same way.  The most overused and wrong statement that I've heard and hate is "Driving is a privilege, not a right".  Nope, the state taxes the users (paying for drivers license and registration), AND the use (fuel taxes). They already had the RIGHT to drive.  The state designated it a privilege so they could tax and control it.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>    If I remember correctly , the life expectancy of a concrete structure is 50 years .
Some of the old NASA launch structures are deteriorating to the point of collapse , even though they were built to be extremely strong .
    Concrete meteorites .
Metal rusts .
Wood rots .
Plastic ? Nah , not that great for a bridge .
: ) 50 years is a decent judgement for projected growth too .
Look at any city .
How many can you find that have small or minimal growth between 1959 to 2009 ?
In 50 years , it can be expected that a bridge or highway will be outdated and need to be replaced or upgraded .
Unfortunately , infrastructure budgets do n't necessarily line up with growth even though government is suppose to make it work .
    Power , water , phone , and cable do n't usually suffer the same problems , because they are funded by the people using them .
Unfortunately , roads can not be paid for in the same way .
The most overused and wrong statement that I 've heard and hate is " Driving is a privilege , not a right " .
Nope , the state taxes the users ( paying for drivers license and registration ) , AND the use ( fuel taxes ) .
They already had the RIGHT to drive .
The state designated it a privilege so they could tax and control it .
   </tokentext>
<sentencetext>
    If I remember correctly, the life expectancy of a concrete structure is 50 years.
Some of the old NASA launch structures are deteriorating to the point of collapse, even though they were built to be extremely strong.
    Concrete meteorites.
Metal rusts.
Wood rots.
Plastic?  Nah, not that great for a bridge.
:)  50 years is a decent judgement for projected growth too.
Look at any city.
How many can you find that have small or minimal growth between 1959 to 2009?
In 50 years, it can be expected that a bridge or highway will be outdated and need to be replaced or upgraded.
Unfortunately, infrastructure budgets don't necessarily line up with growth even though government is suppose to make it work.
    Power, water, phone, and cable don't usually suffer the same problems, because they are funded by the people using them.
Unfortunately, roads cannot be paid for in the same way.
The most overused and wrong statement that I've heard and hate is "Driving is a privilege, not a right".
Nope, the state taxes the users (paying for drivers license and registration), AND the use (fuel taxes).
They already had the RIGHT to drive.
The state designated it a privilege so they could tax and control it.
   </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936385</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936435</id>
	<title>Don't blame the three caltrans employees</title>
	<author>nick\_davison</author>
	<datestamp>1257021420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It took me a while to figure out but then I realized: CALTRANS only actually employes three guys.</p><p>Driving the 15 in San Diego, I wondered why there were all these construction sites with absolutely no one working. Eventually I pieced it together... CALTRANS only employs three guys and one of those has to hold the sign.</p><p>Sure, they could just do one tiny little roadwork at a time. But that'd completely give away the hundreds of millions CALTRANS budget is being spent on three construction workers with the rest going to hookers and blow. Instead, they dump cones everywhere, dig holes everywhere, then quickly move on to the next site. Sure, you'll never actually see a CALTRANS guy working but it sure as hell looks like they must have a lot of people doing the work if they can dig up that much crap and have roadworks every couple of hundred yards.</p><p>So, when judging the bridge collapse, try not to blame the three overworked guys. They're doing the best they can. Their job was to put up some cones, slap on some duct tape in the two minutes they had assigned, then get on to making somewhere else look busy. If you want to blame someone, figure out who spends the other 99.9\% on those hookers and that blow. Imagine how much could be achieved if his habit went to pay for actual workers instead.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It took me a while to figure out but then I realized : CALTRANS only actually employes three guys.Driving the 15 in San Diego , I wondered why there were all these construction sites with absolutely no one working .
Eventually I pieced it together... CALTRANS only employs three guys and one of those has to hold the sign.Sure , they could just do one tiny little roadwork at a time .
But that 'd completely give away the hundreds of millions CALTRANS budget is being spent on three construction workers with the rest going to hookers and blow .
Instead , they dump cones everywhere , dig holes everywhere , then quickly move on to the next site .
Sure , you 'll never actually see a CALTRANS guy working but it sure as hell looks like they must have a lot of people doing the work if they can dig up that much crap and have roadworks every couple of hundred yards.So , when judging the bridge collapse , try not to blame the three overworked guys .
They 're doing the best they can .
Their job was to put up some cones , slap on some duct tape in the two minutes they had assigned , then get on to making somewhere else look busy .
If you want to blame someone , figure out who spends the other 99.9 \ % on those hookers and that blow .
Imagine how much could be achieved if his habit went to pay for actual workers instead .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It took me a while to figure out but then I realized: CALTRANS only actually employes three guys.Driving the 15 in San Diego, I wondered why there were all these construction sites with absolutely no one working.
Eventually I pieced it together... CALTRANS only employs three guys and one of those has to hold the sign.Sure, they could just do one tiny little roadwork at a time.
But that'd completely give away the hundreds of millions CALTRANS budget is being spent on three construction workers with the rest going to hookers and blow.
Instead, they dump cones everywhere, dig holes everywhere, then quickly move on to the next site.
Sure, you'll never actually see a CALTRANS guy working but it sure as hell looks like they must have a lot of people doing the work if they can dig up that much crap and have roadworks every couple of hundred yards.So, when judging the bridge collapse, try not to blame the three overworked guys.
They're doing the best they can.
Their job was to put up some cones, slap on some duct tape in the two minutes they had assigned, then get on to making somewhere else look busy.
If you want to blame someone, figure out who spends the other 99.9\% on those hookers and that blow.
Imagine how much could be achieved if his habit went to pay for actual workers instead.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29943378</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong audience</title>
	<author>Zaphod-AVA</author>
	<datestamp>1257107580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While the post is drivel, the irony of trivializing people responsible for maintaining complex systems in story about catastrophic failure of maintaining a complex system is fantastic.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While the post is drivel , the irony of trivializing people responsible for maintaining complex systems in story about catastrophic failure of maintaining a complex system is fantastic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While the post is drivel, the irony of trivializing people responsible for maintaining complex systems in story about catastrophic failure of maintaining a complex system is fantastic.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936169</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936113</id>
	<title>And where did the retro-fit funds go?</title>
	<author>ttimes</author>
	<datestamp>1257018420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>McSweeny's has a great article on this, broad reaching in its investigation of the many problems at hand. One thing that troubles me: I have seen many times in the California University and Transportation groups, failure to use earthquake retro-fit funds - they simply use them elsewhere. Its only when a problem like this arises that we learn they have not been used.</htmltext>
<tokenext>McSweeny 's has a great article on this , broad reaching in its investigation of the many problems at hand .
One thing that troubles me : I have seen many times in the California University and Transportation groups , failure to use earthquake retro-fit funds - they simply use them elsewhere .
Its only when a problem like this arises that we learn they have not been used .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>McSweeny's has a great article on this, broad reaching in its investigation of the many problems at hand.
One thing that troubles me: I have seen many times in the California University and Transportation groups, failure to use earthquake retro-fit funds - they simply use them elsewhere.
Its only when a problem like this arises that we learn they have not been used.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937325</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile, in Segovia....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256986500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Note that there is a large selection bias in the example you cite. The Romans were great engineers, but I am pretty sure they also built a lot of shitty bridges and aqueducts. It is a sort of natural selection, the ones that are still standing today happen to be the good ones.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Note that there is a large selection bias in the example you cite .
The Romans were great engineers , but I am pretty sure they also built a lot of shitty bridges and aqueducts .
It is a sort of natural selection , the ones that are still standing today happen to be the good ones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Note that there is a large selection bias in the example you cite.
The Romans were great engineers, but I am pretty sure they also built a lot of shitty bridges and aqueducts.
It is a sort of natural selection, the ones that are still standing today happen to be the good ones.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936395</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936761</id>
	<title>Re:INAE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256980800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Apparently, according to some parties there are no qualified American civil engineers and civil engineers from India need to be allowed into the US. Afterall, look at the contributions of the best and brightest from India to information technology workers in the US.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Apparently , according to some parties there are no qualified American civil engineers and civil engineers from India need to be allowed into the US .
Afterall , look at the contributions of the best and brightest from India to information technology workers in the US .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Apparently, according to some parties there are no qualified American civil engineers and civil engineers from India need to be allowed into the US.
Afterall, look at the contributions of the best and brightest from India to information technology workers in the US.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936089</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936603</id>
	<title>Difference in materials</title>
	<author>lymond01</author>
	<datestamp>1256979600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I heard the problem was the weld between old and new steel.  Temperature change caused the materials to contract or expand and, being slightly different, they changed at different rates, breaking the weld.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I heard the problem was the weld between old and new steel .
Temperature change caused the materials to contract or expand and , being slightly different , they changed at different rates , breaking the weld .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I heard the problem was the weld between old and new steel.
Temperature change caused the materials to contract or expand and, being slightly different, they changed at different rates, breaking the weld.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936123</id>
	<title>Rushed</title>
	<author>XPeter</author>
	<datestamp>1257018480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Things like this can't be rushed, plain and simple.  Carefully executed planning is what's needed to take on these types of projects.<br><br>Sure the commuters will have to wait a little bit longer while repairs are done, but it sure beats the mess they're in now.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Things like this ca n't be rushed , plain and simple .
Carefully executed planning is what 's needed to take on these types of projects.Sure the commuters will have to wait a little bit longer while repairs are done , but it sure beats the mess they 're in now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Things like this can't be rushed, plain and simple.
Carefully executed planning is what's needed to take on these types of projects.Sure the commuters will have to wait a little bit longer while repairs are done, but it sure beats the mess they're in now.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29945862</id>
	<title>Re:Rushed</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257083160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about you *don't* fix it, and see how things adapt?  More people use the public transport perhaps, and is that such a bad thing?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about you * do n't * fix it , and see how things adapt ?
More people use the public transport perhaps , and is that such a bad thing ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about you *don't* fix it, and see how things adapt?
More people use the public transport perhaps, and is that such a bad thing?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936123</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937673</id>
	<title>Re:Made in China</title>
	<author>tygt</author>
	<datestamp>1256990220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Epic failure, nice try. Even people who'd like to yell about that won't believe it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Epic failure , nice try .
Even people who 'd like to yell about that wo n't believe it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Epic failure, nice try.
Even people who'd like to yell about that won't believe it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936127</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937359</id>
	<title>The answer is too obvious.</title>
	<author>symbolset</author>
	<datestamp>1256986800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> <tt>1. Move half of the jobs out of the city<br>2. Move half of the people into the city<br>3. Blow up the bridge</tt></p></div> </blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
Move half of the jobs out of the city2 .
Move half of the people into the city3 .
Blow up the bridge</tokentext>
<sentencetext> 1.
Move half of the jobs out of the city2.
Move half of the people into the city3.
Blow up the bridge 
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29941731</id>
	<title>Re:Lets see here...</title>
	<author>moosesocks</author>
	<datestamp>1257091800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Indeed, if you've seen New Jersey's roads, it's no surprise that we receive barely any federal funding for them (and it's not for a lack of trying -- by most accounts, NJDOT does a decent job with the funds it is given)</p><p>The blame for this gets shifted around each election cycle, but has persisted through several Democratic and Republican administrations.  Plans to raise tolls by 800\%, or install new tollbooths are not political sensationalism, but simply a reflection of decades of deferred maintenance, low funding, poor planning, and population growth.</p><p>Unsurprisingly, the state is nearly bankrupt, and its younger residents are leaving in droves.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Indeed , if you 've seen New Jersey 's roads , it 's no surprise that we receive barely any federal funding for them ( and it 's not for a lack of trying -- by most accounts , NJDOT does a decent job with the funds it is given ) The blame for this gets shifted around each election cycle , but has persisted through several Democratic and Republican administrations .
Plans to raise tolls by 800 \ % , or install new tollbooths are not political sensationalism , but simply a reflection of decades of deferred maintenance , low funding , poor planning , and population growth.Unsurprisingly , the state is nearly bankrupt , and its younger residents are leaving in droves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Indeed, if you've seen New Jersey's roads, it's no surprise that we receive barely any federal funding for them (and it's not for a lack of trying -- by most accounts, NJDOT does a decent job with the funds it is given)The blame for this gets shifted around each election cycle, but has persisted through several Democratic and Republican administrations.
Plans to raise tolls by 800\%, or install new tollbooths are not political sensationalism, but simply a reflection of decades of deferred maintenance, low funding, poor planning, and population growth.Unsurprisingly, the state is nearly bankrupt, and its younger residents are leaving in droves.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937557</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936295</id>
	<title>who gives a crap?</title>
	<author>Gothmolly</author>
	<datestamp>1257020220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"inconveniencing 250,000 people" - who cares, other than those people?   How is this news, or even news for nerds?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" inconveniencing 250,000 people " - who cares , other than those people ?
How is this news , or even news for nerds ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"inconveniencing 250,000 people" - who cares, other than those people?
How is this news, or even news for nerds?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29945962</id>
	<title>Re:There *IS* redundancy.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257084180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>It would only be redundant, if any of those individual routes could on its own adequately handle the full traffic load without any significance difference.
Your thinking is simply muddled.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It would only be redundant , if any of those individual routes could on its own adequately handle the full traffic load without any significance difference .
Your thinking is simply muddled .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It would only be redundant, if any of those individual routes could on its own adequately handle the full traffic load without any significance difference.
Your thinking is simply muddled.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936205</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936069</id>
	<title>You haven't seen anything yet.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257018120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>On November 10, undersized gusset plates, increased concrete surfacing load, and weight of construction supplies/equipment are going to cause an outright collapse the likes of which have never been seen.  That's what you get for building on fluvial ground.  The saving grace will be that nobody is on it!</htmltext>
<tokenext>On November 10 , undersized gusset plates , increased concrete surfacing load , and weight of construction supplies/equipment are going to cause an outright collapse the likes of which have never been seen .
That 's what you get for building on fluvial ground .
The saving grace will be that nobody is on it !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On November 10, undersized gusset plates, increased concrete surfacing load, and weight of construction supplies/equipment are going to cause an outright collapse the likes of which have never been seen.
That's what you get for building on fluvial ground.
The saving grace will be that nobody is on it!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936055</id>
	<title>First Failure</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257017940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Forgot to fasten those cables, eh?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Forgot to fasten those cables , eh ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Forgot to fasten those cables, eh?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29939027</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile, in Segovia....</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1257005700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So you think that 2000 years of 'the universal solvent' running over it doesn't compare to some cars which are actually designed (to a small extent, its not like they drive tanks over it regularly) to be nice too it running over it for a few decades?  The difference is, some things as shown in history were built to last, regardless of price.   Modern bridges are not built under this concept.  They are built to last a specific period of time as absolutely cheap as possible.  This isn't really a bad thing, building a bridge to last a thousand years is rather silly in California, in 1000 years its doubtful the state will look anything like it does now.  Plenty of bridges were built to last 50 years and by the time that 50 years comes along, they are barely used.   It would have been a waste to design them to last a 1000 years, hell it may have cost not only more money to construct, but more money to deconstruct.</p><p>Then, there are those bridges that need to last longer, handle more load, and deal with things that weren't expected at design time.  Until we can predict the future, its all just a guess.</p><p>I'm impressed these bridges last as long as they do as well, but I'm never surprised at a failure.  The Minnesota failure didn't surprise me, as disturbing as it was.  I'm more amazed by how few of these failures occur considering how many people just do the bare minimum they can get by with, from the construction workers, to contractors, to inspectors, to politicians.  Not saying we shouldn't work harder to prevent failures, just that with all the variables involved, I'm impressed we do as well as we do.  Our arrogance is even more amazing, the fact that we as a population are surprised, blown away in some cases.  Far too many people think we control the world around us.  There are a lot of really ignorant people in the world.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So you think that 2000 years of 'the universal solvent ' running over it does n't compare to some cars which are actually designed ( to a small extent , its not like they drive tanks over it regularly ) to be nice too it running over it for a few decades ?
The difference is , some things as shown in history were built to last , regardless of price .
Modern bridges are not built under this concept .
They are built to last a specific period of time as absolutely cheap as possible .
This is n't really a bad thing , building a bridge to last a thousand years is rather silly in California , in 1000 years its doubtful the state will look anything like it does now .
Plenty of bridges were built to last 50 years and by the time that 50 years comes along , they are barely used .
It would have been a waste to design them to last a 1000 years , hell it may have cost not only more money to construct , but more money to deconstruct.Then , there are those bridges that need to last longer , handle more load , and deal with things that were n't expected at design time .
Until we can predict the future , its all just a guess.I 'm impressed these bridges last as long as they do as well , but I 'm never surprised at a failure .
The Minnesota failure did n't surprise me , as disturbing as it was .
I 'm more amazed by how few of these failures occur considering how many people just do the bare minimum they can get by with , from the construction workers , to contractors , to inspectors , to politicians .
Not saying we should n't work harder to prevent failures , just that with all the variables involved , I 'm impressed we do as well as we do .
Our arrogance is even more amazing , the fact that we as a population are surprised , blown away in some cases .
Far too many people think we control the world around us .
There are a lot of really ignorant people in the world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So you think that 2000 years of 'the universal solvent' running over it doesn't compare to some cars which are actually designed (to a small extent, its not like they drive tanks over it regularly) to be nice too it running over it for a few decades?
The difference is, some things as shown in history were built to last, regardless of price.
Modern bridges are not built under this concept.
They are built to last a specific period of time as absolutely cheap as possible.
This isn't really a bad thing, building a bridge to last a thousand years is rather silly in California, in 1000 years its doubtful the state will look anything like it does now.
Plenty of bridges were built to last 50 years and by the time that 50 years comes along, they are barely used.
It would have been a waste to design them to last a 1000 years, hell it may have cost not only more money to construct, but more money to deconstruct.Then, there are those bridges that need to last longer, handle more load, and deal with things that weren't expected at design time.
Until we can predict the future, its all just a guess.I'm impressed these bridges last as long as they do as well, but I'm never surprised at a failure.
The Minnesota failure didn't surprise me, as disturbing as it was.
I'm more amazed by how few of these failures occur considering how many people just do the bare minimum they can get by with, from the construction workers, to contractors, to inspectors, to politicians.
Not saying we shouldn't work harder to prevent failures, just that with all the variables involved, I'm impressed we do as well as we do.
Our arrogance is even more amazing, the fact that we as a population are surprised, blown away in some cases.
Far too many people think we control the world around us.
There are a lot of really ignorant people in the world.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936523</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29939577</id>
	<title>Re:Speaking as the owner, I'm furious</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257012660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Four years ago I bought that bridge along with a package of subprime mortgages to highly qualified homeowners.</p></div></blockquote><p>
Their qualification was a pulse, right?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Four years ago I bought that bridge along with a package of subprime mortgages to highly qualified homeowners .
Their qualification was a pulse , right ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Four years ago I bought that bridge along with a package of subprime mortgages to highly qualified homeowners.
Their qualification was a pulse, right?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936077</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936395</id>
	<title>Meanwhile, in Segovia....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257021240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Meanwhile, in Segovia (Spain), the Roman aqueduct is still up &amp; running :<br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqueduct\_of\_Segovia" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqueduct\_of\_Segovia</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>Without mortar, with just granite blocks on top of each other, it is more than 2000 years old.<br>I can't help but wonder when mankind began to suck at building anything that should last more than a few years....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Meanwhile , in Segovia ( Spain ) , the Roman aqueduct is still up &amp; running : http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqueduct \ _of \ _Segovia [ wikipedia.org ] Without mortar , with just granite blocks on top of each other , it is more than 2000 years old.I ca n't help but wonder when mankind began to suck at building anything that should last more than a few years... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Meanwhile, in Segovia (Spain), the Roman aqueduct is still up &amp; running :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqueduct\_of\_Segovia [wikipedia.org]Without mortar, with just granite blocks on top of each other, it is more than 2000 years old.I can't help but wonder when mankind began to suck at building anything that should last more than a few years....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29948214</id>
	<title>Who cares!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257195120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Who the hell cares about the bay bridge. Caltrans sucks. Period. End of story.  Move along, nothing to see here.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Who the hell cares about the bay bridge .
Caltrans sucks .
Period. End of story .
Move along , nothing to see here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who the hell cares about the bay bridge.
Caltrans sucks.
Period. End of story.
Move along, nothing to see here.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29938401</id>
	<title>Re:What happened indeed</title>
	<author>snaz555</author>
	<datestamp>1256998500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't understand the point you're trying to make.  The Bay Bridge isn't funded by public transportation funds.  Or are you claiming the bridge is funded \_by\_ raids on PTA funding under some vague notion that say because buses drive on it it's public transportation?  But if so, wouldn't that be \_good\_ for the bridge - so how would that be the root cause of the eyebar crack?</p><p>
Second, what gives you the idea that it's not properly funded - if that's in fact what you're claiming (your other confusing statement seems to contradict this)?  Or not properly maintained?  Isn't finding and promptly fixing a cracked eyebar an indicator of active maintenance?  Sure the temporary patch they applied (that span is coming down in a few years, anyway) was inadequate, but that's an engineering error and not a sign of lack of maintenance?  In fact, isn't the mere act of completely replacing the span a sign of maintenance?
</p><p>You're just not making much sense.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't understand the point you 're trying to make .
The Bay Bridge is n't funded by public transportation funds .
Or are you claiming the bridge is funded \ _by \ _ raids on PTA funding under some vague notion that say because buses drive on it it 's public transportation ?
But if so , would n't that be \ _good \ _ for the bridge - so how would that be the root cause of the eyebar crack ?
Second , what gives you the idea that it 's not properly funded - if that 's in fact what you 're claiming ( your other confusing statement seems to contradict this ) ?
Or not properly maintained ?
Is n't finding and promptly fixing a cracked eyebar an indicator of active maintenance ?
Sure the temporary patch they applied ( that span is coming down in a few years , anyway ) was inadequate , but that 's an engineering error and not a sign of lack of maintenance ?
In fact , is n't the mere act of completely replacing the span a sign of maintenance ?
You 're just not making much sense .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't understand the point you're trying to make.
The Bay Bridge isn't funded by public transportation funds.
Or are you claiming the bridge is funded \_by\_ raids on PTA funding under some vague notion that say because buses drive on it it's public transportation?
But if so, wouldn't that be \_good\_ for the bridge - so how would that be the root cause of the eyebar crack?
Second, what gives you the idea that it's not properly funded - if that's in fact what you're claiming (your other confusing statement seems to contradict this)?
Or not properly maintained?
Isn't finding and promptly fixing a cracked eyebar an indicator of active maintenance?
Sure the temporary patch they applied (that span is coming down in a few years, anyway) was inadequate, but that's an engineering error and not a sign of lack of maintenance?
In fact, isn't the mere act of completely replacing the span a sign of maintenance?
You're just not making much sense.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936313</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937207</id>
	<title>Re:MY insight, as an engineer</title>
	<author>Trepidity</author>
	<datestamp>1256985180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In this case, it's not really the design lifetime that's a problem--- the bridge, under normal conditions, would continue functioning fine for decades. The problem is that we've gotten less tolerant of things like sections collapsing during earthquakes, and retrofitting the bridge to modern earthquake standards was projected to cost more (incl. the higher maintenance costs continuing indefinitely) than just replacing it with a newer design.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In this case , it 's not really the design lifetime that 's a problem--- the bridge , under normal conditions , would continue functioning fine for decades .
The problem is that we 've gotten less tolerant of things like sections collapsing during earthquakes , and retrofitting the bridge to modern earthquake standards was projected to cost more ( incl .
the higher maintenance costs continuing indefinitely ) than just replacing it with a newer design .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In this case, it's not really the design lifetime that's a problem--- the bridge, under normal conditions, would continue functioning fine for decades.
The problem is that we've gotten less tolerant of things like sections collapsing during earthquakes, and retrofitting the bridge to modern earthquake standards was projected to cost more (incl.
the higher maintenance costs continuing indefinitely) than just replacing it with a newer design.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936385</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29938959</id>
	<title>Re:Lets see here...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257004680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hmm, perhaps Californians should stop being big government lefties promoting the growth of the very beast helping to bankrupt you?  Just a thought.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hmm , perhaps Californians should stop being big government lefties promoting the growth of the very beast helping to bankrupt you ?
Just a thought .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hmm, perhaps Californians should stop being big government lefties promoting the growth of the very beast helping to bankrupt you?
Just a thought.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936417</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937377</id>
	<title>Re:still dead!</title>
	<author>nacturation</author>
	<datestamp>1256987040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's, ah... probably pining for the fjords.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's , ah... probably pining for the fjords .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's, ah... probably pining for the fjords.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936061</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29938013</id>
	<title>Re:Lets see here...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256994600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Stunning numbers.</p><p>What I want to know is, if 250000 cars a day pile over the Bay Bridge, tolls are one way and $5 a car (fasttrack &amp; cash are the same I think), so this means $625000 a *DAY*. Over a year, lets ignore weekends for simplicity and being slightly conservative is roughly (5 days per week, 52 weeks a year, $625000 per day) is $162.5 million per year.</p><p>http://bata.mtc.ca.gov seems to indicate my back of the envelope numbers are in the ballpark (114,570,347 cars across 7 california bridges, my calculation above assumes 32 million go across the bay bridge), but the site breaks down the money a little further.</p><p>The question becomes, how much does it cost to maintain a bridge? According to the above web-site, $2 of the toll goes to seismic retrofit, which is $65 million per year. This is *improvement* budget.</p><p>Where the fuck is our money going? It certainly doesn't seem to be the bridge.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Stunning numbers.What I want to know is , if 250000 cars a day pile over the Bay Bridge , tolls are one way and $ 5 a car ( fasttrack &amp; cash are the same I think ) , so this means $ 625000 a * DAY * .
Over a year , lets ignore weekends for simplicity and being slightly conservative is roughly ( 5 days per week , 52 weeks a year , $ 625000 per day ) is $ 162.5 million per year.http : //bata.mtc.ca.gov seems to indicate my back of the envelope numbers are in the ballpark ( 114,570,347 cars across 7 california bridges , my calculation above assumes 32 million go across the bay bridge ) , but the site breaks down the money a little further.The question becomes , how much does it cost to maintain a bridge ?
According to the above web-site , $ 2 of the toll goes to seismic retrofit , which is $ 65 million per year .
This is * improvement * budget.Where the fuck is our money going ?
It certainly does n't seem to be the bridge .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Stunning numbers.What I want to know is, if 250000 cars a day pile over the Bay Bridge, tolls are one way and $5 a car (fasttrack &amp; cash are the same I think), so this means $625000 a *DAY*.
Over a year, lets ignore weekends for simplicity and being slightly conservative is roughly (5 days per week, 52 weeks a year, $625000 per day) is $162.5 million per year.http://bata.mtc.ca.gov seems to indicate my back of the envelope numbers are in the ballpark (114,570,347 cars across 7 california bridges, my calculation above assumes 32 million go across the bay bridge), but the site breaks down the money a little further.The question becomes, how much does it cost to maintain a bridge?
According to the above web-site, $2 of the toll goes to seismic retrofit, which is $65 million per year.
This is *improvement* budget.Where the fuck is our money going?
It certainly doesn't seem to be the bridge.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936417</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937023</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong audience</title>
	<author>syousef</author>
	<datestamp>1256983140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>No, Slashdot is mostly made up of computer janitors</i></p><p>Well janitors aren't usually asked to solve problems - they do boring repedative manual work, which is why they aren't paid so well.</p><p><i>he greatest insight you'll get out of most of the posters here is, "hurrr durr, the bridge must've been running Windoze! LOL!"</i></p><p>What I find particularly sad is that you've clearly just abused the community and they think you're kidding.</p><p><i>ith maybe a little "omg the twin towers were collapsed by EXPLOSIVES!!!!"-style conspiracy theory and "THE GOVERNMENT IS BAD!!!" braindead libertarianism thrown in for color.</i></p><p>In my experience both extremes are braindead, and as for conspiracy theories I don't see nearly as many of them here as you make out.</p><p>As for your signature "Software piracy is victimless theft", I just can't tell you how wrong that is. First of all copyright infringement of software has nothing to do with rape and pillage, secondly since nothing is physically taken it's not theft at all, and thirdly it's not a victimless crime since the victims are the software manufacturers and distributors who might otherwise have made a profit - especially the poor schmuck who wrote the software that might be out of a job when it doesn't sell. Your signature is therefore complete legalese drivel.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , Slashdot is mostly made up of computer janitorsWell janitors are n't usually asked to solve problems - they do boring repedative manual work , which is why they are n't paid so well.he greatest insight you 'll get out of most of the posters here is , " hurrr durr , the bridge must 've been running Windoze !
LOL ! " What I find particularly sad is that you 've clearly just abused the community and they think you 're kidding.ith maybe a little " omg the twin towers were collapsed by EXPLOSIVES ! ! ! !
" -style conspiracy theory and " THE GOVERNMENT IS BAD ! ! !
" braindead libertarianism thrown in for color.In my experience both extremes are braindead , and as for conspiracy theories I do n't see nearly as many of them here as you make out.As for your signature " Software piracy is victimless theft " , I just ca n't tell you how wrong that is .
First of all copyright infringement of software has nothing to do with rape and pillage , secondly since nothing is physically taken it 's not theft at all , and thirdly it 's not a victimless crime since the victims are the software manufacturers and distributors who might otherwise have made a profit - especially the poor schmuck who wrote the software that might be out of a job when it does n't sell .
Your signature is therefore complete legalese drivel .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, Slashdot is mostly made up of computer janitorsWell janitors aren't usually asked to solve problems - they do boring repedative manual work, which is why they aren't paid so well.he greatest insight you'll get out of most of the posters here is, "hurrr durr, the bridge must've been running Windoze!
LOL!"What I find particularly sad is that you've clearly just abused the community and they think you're kidding.ith maybe a little "omg the twin towers were collapsed by EXPLOSIVES!!!!
"-style conspiracy theory and "THE GOVERNMENT IS BAD!!!
" braindead libertarianism thrown in for color.In my experience both extremes are braindead, and as for conspiracy theories I don't see nearly as many of them here as you make out.As for your signature "Software piracy is victimless theft", I just can't tell you how wrong that is.
First of all copyright infringement of software has nothing to do with rape and pillage, secondly since nothing is physically taken it's not theft at all, and thirdly it's not a victimless crime since the victims are the software manufacturers and distributors who might otherwise have made a profit - especially the poor schmuck who wrote the software that might be out of a job when it doesn't sell.
Your signature is therefore complete legalese drivel.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936169</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936109</id>
	<title>Bridges?? Let me tell you about World of Warcraft!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257018420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Dunno much about bridges, but I can tell you a lot about ramping elven fighter-mages up to 86th level in WoW!!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dunno much about bridges , but I can tell you a lot about ramping elven fighter-mages up to 86th level in WoW ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dunno much about bridges, but I can tell you a lot about ramping elven fighter-mages up to 86th level in WoW!!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936189</id>
	<title>Government Bridge</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257018960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A private one would have been more Ron Paul</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A private one would have been more Ron Paul</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A private one would have been more Ron Paul</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937579</id>
	<title>Lets see here...</title>
	<author>tengeta</author>
	<datestamp>1256989320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This bridge has been a problem from its start, its been a consistent problem since Loma Prieta, and the repairs cost as much as building a new bridge. How about, I dunno, do the logical thing here since it might actually be a safe bridge if it isn't this one.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This bridge has been a problem from its start , its been a consistent problem since Loma Prieta , and the repairs cost as much as building a new bridge .
How about , I dunno , do the logical thing here since it might actually be a safe bridge if it is n't this one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This bridge has been a problem from its start, its been a consistent problem since Loma Prieta, and the repairs cost as much as building a new bridge.
How about, I dunno, do the logical thing here since it might actually be a safe bridge if it isn't this one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936119</id>
	<title>Temporary fix insufficent</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257018480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They should have used duct-tape!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They should have used duct-tape !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They should have used duct-tape!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29940069</id>
	<title>What happened to the fucking bridge?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257107460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Really?  Do you need to ask?  Obviously, somebody somewhere was cutting corners to save their company money.  Period.  Why the fuck else would the bridge be fucked up?  Companies don't have any incentive to do things the right way -- it's not in their best interest.  Companies are only concerned about profit.  Every time I see a story like this, or see an article asking a question like this, I cringe at the level of ignorance required to <b>not</b> see the reasons why shit like this happens in the first place.  This article leads me to talk about the bigger picture.</p><p>People, please wake the fuck up.  This whole monetary system is epic fail.  Almost all of you hate going to your job, spending 40 hours or more per week doing shit you hate just to put food on your plate, all the while trying to ignore that little voice in your head that tells you what you actually want to do (you know, like play music or invent something).  And you probably have some dumb, nagging, bitch of a wife constantly asking you to do <i>extra</i> shit for her or the kids, driving you nuts every single time she opens her blabbering mouth.  But, like the spineless pussy you are, you hang your head in shame and obey -- pretty much what you've been doing your whole fucking life.  Hang your fucking head in shame and obey your master.  Piece of shit.  And, when you finally do get some time to yourself, you wonder where the fuck it all went wrong.  Dumbass.  It went wrong when you assholes decided to be ignorant of what went on in government, and now your corporate masters are running the show (don't believe me?  follow the money trail).  I mean, for fuck's sake, we've got the Federal Reserve now.  THE FUCKING FEDERAL RESERVE.  Good job, guys.  Seriously, you old fucks wonder why young people hate you?  That's why.  Because, among everything else, you allowed this illegal, unnecessary institution to be erected here in America.  Central bank for the loss.</p><p>Now, here we are in a horrible recession, and all you dumb fucks can say is "stop spending so much!"  Hello?  The only way to get out <b> <i>is</i> </b> to spend at an astronomical rate.  That's what we had to do the first time around and that's what we'll have to do every single time this happens.  But hey, this system is pretty darn good when it works, right?  Nah, we still have a billion people -- yes, one sixth of the human population -- who are STARVING, even though we have the technology and the means to produce enough food for everyone, forever, without harming our environment.  Get a god damned clue, you arrogant, ignorant fucks.  I say arrogant with this type of person in mind -- the idiot who thinks they're smart because they watch Fox news and talk with their co-workers about political issues as if they had spent eight to ten years of their life earning a doctorate in political science.  Well, I got news for you buster -- you <b> <i>don't</i> </b> know shit.</p><p>We don't need money.  We're past that point.  Hell, the shit we use isn't even real money.  You can't redeem it for anything at the government -- all its good for is wiping your ass.  We went from gold and silver coins, to paper money that was redeemable for gold, to this bullshit (which, by the way, the Federal Reserve lends out AT A DEBT... meaning there will literally never be enough money in circulation to be able to pay off that debt).  Do you like the idea of being forever indebted to a handful of private bankers?  Do you like being thought of as a wage slave, or do you like the thought that every time you punch the time clock, you enter a dictatorship?  Of course you don't, but you've probably never thought of it that way.  Or, you probably think of people who say such things as being conspiracy theorists or just plain loony.  But, when you look at the facts and see that all I'm saying is true, you're the one who looks like the fucking loony.</p><p>A better world is out there.  Our technologies have enabled us to turn scarce resources into abundant ones, but "money" produces that scarcity, artificially, all over ag</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Really ?
Do you need to ask ?
Obviously , somebody somewhere was cutting corners to save their company money .
Period. Why the fuck else would the bridge be fucked up ?
Companies do n't have any incentive to do things the right way -- it 's not in their best interest .
Companies are only concerned about profit .
Every time I see a story like this , or see an article asking a question like this , I cringe at the level of ignorance required to not see the reasons why shit like this happens in the first place .
This article leads me to talk about the bigger picture.People , please wake the fuck up .
This whole monetary system is epic fail .
Almost all of you hate going to your job , spending 40 hours or more per week doing shit you hate just to put food on your plate , all the while trying to ignore that little voice in your head that tells you what you actually want to do ( you know , like play music or invent something ) .
And you probably have some dumb , nagging , bitch of a wife constantly asking you to do extra shit for her or the kids , driving you nuts every single time she opens her blabbering mouth .
But , like the spineless pussy you are , you hang your head in shame and obey -- pretty much what you 've been doing your whole fucking life .
Hang your fucking head in shame and obey your master .
Piece of shit .
And , when you finally do get some time to yourself , you wonder where the fuck it all went wrong .
Dumbass. It went wrong when you assholes decided to be ignorant of what went on in government , and now your corporate masters are running the show ( do n't believe me ?
follow the money trail ) .
I mean , for fuck 's sake , we 've got the Federal Reserve now .
THE FUCKING FEDERAL RESERVE .
Good job , guys .
Seriously , you old fucks wonder why young people hate you ?
That 's why .
Because , among everything else , you allowed this illegal , unnecessary institution to be erected here in America .
Central bank for the loss.Now , here we are in a horrible recession , and all you dumb fucks can say is " stop spending so much !
" Hello ?
The only way to get out is to spend at an astronomical rate .
That 's what we had to do the first time around and that 's what we 'll have to do every single time this happens .
But hey , this system is pretty darn good when it works , right ?
Nah , we still have a billion people -- yes , one sixth of the human population -- who are STARVING , even though we have the technology and the means to produce enough food for everyone , forever , without harming our environment .
Get a god damned clue , you arrogant , ignorant fucks .
I say arrogant with this type of person in mind -- the idiot who thinks they 're smart because they watch Fox news and talk with their co-workers about political issues as if they had spent eight to ten years of their life earning a doctorate in political science .
Well , I got news for you buster -- you do n't know shit.We do n't need money .
We 're past that point .
Hell , the shit we use is n't even real money .
You ca n't redeem it for anything at the government -- all its good for is wiping your ass .
We went from gold and silver coins , to paper money that was redeemable for gold , to this bullshit ( which , by the way , the Federal Reserve lends out AT A DEBT... meaning there will literally never be enough money in circulation to be able to pay off that debt ) .
Do you like the idea of being forever indebted to a handful of private bankers ?
Do you like being thought of as a wage slave , or do you like the thought that every time you punch the time clock , you enter a dictatorship ?
Of course you do n't , but you 've probably never thought of it that way .
Or , you probably think of people who say such things as being conspiracy theorists or just plain loony .
But , when you look at the facts and see that all I 'm saying is true , you 're the one who looks like the fucking loony.A better world is out there .
Our technologies have enabled us to turn scarce resources into abundant ones , but " money " produces that scarcity , artificially , all over ag</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Really?
Do you need to ask?
Obviously, somebody somewhere was cutting corners to save their company money.
Period.  Why the fuck else would the bridge be fucked up?
Companies don't have any incentive to do things the right way -- it's not in their best interest.
Companies are only concerned about profit.
Every time I see a story like this, or see an article asking a question like this, I cringe at the level of ignorance required to not see the reasons why shit like this happens in the first place.
This article leads me to talk about the bigger picture.People, please wake the fuck up.
This whole monetary system is epic fail.
Almost all of you hate going to your job, spending 40 hours or more per week doing shit you hate just to put food on your plate, all the while trying to ignore that little voice in your head that tells you what you actually want to do (you know, like play music or invent something).
And you probably have some dumb, nagging, bitch of a wife constantly asking you to do extra shit for her or the kids, driving you nuts every single time she opens her blabbering mouth.
But, like the spineless pussy you are, you hang your head in shame and obey -- pretty much what you've been doing your whole fucking life.
Hang your fucking head in shame and obey your master.
Piece of shit.
And, when you finally do get some time to yourself, you wonder where the fuck it all went wrong.
Dumbass.  It went wrong when you assholes decided to be ignorant of what went on in government, and now your corporate masters are running the show (don't believe me?
follow the money trail).
I mean, for fuck's sake, we've got the Federal Reserve now.
THE FUCKING FEDERAL RESERVE.
Good job, guys.
Seriously, you old fucks wonder why young people hate you?
That's why.
Because, among everything else, you allowed this illegal, unnecessary institution to be erected here in America.
Central bank for the loss.Now, here we are in a horrible recession, and all you dumb fucks can say is "stop spending so much!
"  Hello?
The only way to get out  is  to spend at an astronomical rate.
That's what we had to do the first time around and that's what we'll have to do every single time this happens.
But hey, this system is pretty darn good when it works, right?
Nah, we still have a billion people -- yes, one sixth of the human population -- who are STARVING, even though we have the technology and the means to produce enough food for everyone, forever, without harming our environment.
Get a god damned clue, you arrogant, ignorant fucks.
I say arrogant with this type of person in mind -- the idiot who thinks they're smart because they watch Fox news and talk with their co-workers about political issues as if they had spent eight to ten years of their life earning a doctorate in political science.
Well, I got news for you buster -- you  don't  know shit.We don't need money.
We're past that point.
Hell, the shit we use isn't even real money.
You can't redeem it for anything at the government -- all its good for is wiping your ass.
We went from gold and silver coins, to paper money that was redeemable for gold, to this bullshit (which, by the way, the Federal Reserve lends out AT A DEBT... meaning there will literally never be enough money in circulation to be able to pay off that debt).
Do you like the idea of being forever indebted to a handful of private bankers?
Do you like being thought of as a wage slave, or do you like the thought that every time you punch the time clock, you enter a dictatorship?
Of course you don't, but you've probably never thought of it that way.
Or, you probably think of people who say such things as being conspiracy theorists or just plain loony.
But, when you look at the facts and see that all I'm saying is true, you're the one who looks like the fucking loony.A better world is out there.
Our technologies have enabled us to turn scarce resources into abundant ones, but "money" produces that scarcity, artificially, all over ag</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937659</id>
	<title>comedy</title>
	<author>Haxx</author>
	<datestamp>1256990100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Slashdot is a great engineering community?</p><p>I thought this was the only Information Technology Comedy sight on the internet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Slashdot is a great engineering community ? I thought this was the only Information Technology Comedy sight on the internet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Slashdot is a great engineering community?I thought this was the only Information Technology Comedy sight on the internet.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936609</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile, in Segovia....</title>
	<author>phantomfive</author>
	<datestamp>1256979600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>When we decided that building out of concrete and steal is cheaper and easier than chiseling out huge granite chunks of rock. We still could build things that last like that aqueduct, if we were willing to pay for it, we just find it is cheaper to use easier materials and then pay maintenance costs. <br> <br>The Segovia aqueduct needs maintenance too, unfortunately.</htmltext>
<tokenext>When we decided that building out of concrete and steal is cheaper and easier than chiseling out huge granite chunks of rock .
We still could build things that last like that aqueduct , if we were willing to pay for it , we just find it is cheaper to use easier materials and then pay maintenance costs .
The Segovia aqueduct needs maintenance too , unfortunately .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When we decided that building out of concrete and steal is cheaper and easier than chiseling out huge granite chunks of rock.
We still could build things that last like that aqueduct, if we were willing to pay for it, we just find it is cheaper to use easier materials and then pay maintenance costs.
The Segovia aqueduct needs maintenance too, unfortunately.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936395</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936129</id>
	<title>#1 Reason</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257018540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Gravity.</p><p>Engineers still don't understand it at the quantum level, but rest assured, gravity did it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Gravity.Engineers still do n't understand it at the quantum level , but rest assured , gravity did it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gravity.Engineers still don't understand it at the quantum level, but rest assured, gravity did it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937147</id>
	<title>Re:Welders are a scapegoat</title>
	<author>belthize</author>
	<datestamp>1256984460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Properly done welds meet the requirements.  If the requirement is that the resulting joint be stronger than the original material that's generally possible, particularly with steel.</p><p>There are only two kinds of welded joints that are weaker than the parent material:<br>1) Joints whose spec called for them to be weaker<br>2) Improperly welded joints.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>    Properly done welds meet the requirements .
If the requirement is that the resulting joint be stronger than the original material that 's generally possible , particularly with steel.There are only two kinds of welded joints that are weaker than the parent material : 1 ) Joints whose spec called for them to be weaker2 ) Improperly welded joints .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
    Properly done welds meet the requirements.
If the requirement is that the resulting joint be stronger than the original material that's generally possible, particularly with steel.There are only two kinds of welded joints that are weaker than the parent material:1) Joints whose spec called for them to be weaker2) Improperly welded joints.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936491</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29940713</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong audience</title>
	<author>IntlHarvester</author>
	<datestamp>1257078000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>More likely, you just personally have gotten smarter and wiser.</p><p>Slashdot has always been filled with bogosity passing as "insight", it's always had karma-whoring (since moderation started), and it's always had trolls having a nice laugh at everyone's expense. If you were to criticize Slashdot for anything, it's not that it's gotten worse, but that its is going into middle-age without getting any better. It is stuck in that same mid-1990s adolescent "Windows drools, Linux rools, Gimmie warez" state forever and ever.</p><p>Although I will agree with you that the moderation system is fundamentally flawed and they just don't care.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>More likely , you just personally have gotten smarter and wiser.Slashdot has always been filled with bogosity passing as " insight " , it 's always had karma-whoring ( since moderation started ) , and it 's always had trolls having a nice laugh at everyone 's expense .
If you were to criticize Slashdot for anything , it 's not that it 's gotten worse , but that its is going into middle-age without getting any better .
It is stuck in that same mid-1990s adolescent " Windows drools , Linux rools , Gimmie warez " state forever and ever.Although I will agree with you that the moderation system is fundamentally flawed and they just do n't care .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>More likely, you just personally have gotten smarter and wiser.Slashdot has always been filled with bogosity passing as "insight", it's always had karma-whoring (since moderation started), and it's always had trolls having a nice laugh at everyone's expense.
If you were to criticize Slashdot for anything, it's not that it's gotten worse, but that its is going into middle-age without getting any better.
It is stuck in that same mid-1990s adolescent "Windows drools, Linux rools, Gimmie warez" state forever and ever.Although I will agree with you that the moderation system is fundamentally flawed and they just don't care.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937355</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936425</id>
	<title>What Happened To the Bay Bridge?</title>
	<author>Runaway1956</author>
	<datestamp>1257021360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I suspect that California educated engineers had a lot to do with the problem.  A panel had to decide how to fix the problem.  The panel was composed, by law, of one gay, one lesbian, one transvestite, one Mormon, one Moslem, one Black, one Hispanic - the list goes on and on.  And, among the engineers, the various engineering disciplines had representation, including the Doctors of Basketweaving from Berkeley.</p><p>Its not hard to understand why the bridge is falling apart.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I suspect that California educated engineers had a lot to do with the problem .
A panel had to decide how to fix the problem .
The panel was composed , by law , of one gay , one lesbian , one transvestite , one Mormon , one Moslem , one Black , one Hispanic - the list goes on and on .
And , among the engineers , the various engineering disciplines had representation , including the Doctors of Basketweaving from Berkeley.Its not hard to understand why the bridge is falling apart .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I suspect that California educated engineers had a lot to do with the problem.
A panel had to decide how to fix the problem.
The panel was composed, by law, of one gay, one lesbian, one transvestite, one Mormon, one Moslem, one Black, one Hispanic - the list goes on and on.
And, among the engineers, the various engineering disciplines had representation, including the Doctors of Basketweaving from Berkeley.Its not hard to understand why the bridge is falling apart.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936089</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937427</id>
	<title>Re:Closed for DAYS? Lucky California.</title>
	<author>colfer</author>
	<datestamp>1256987580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bad, but it is a two lane bridge carrying 3800 cars per day. Actually, that should make it easier to fix.</p><p>The Bay Bridge is the Big Dig of the west. It is the largest public works project in California history, a ridiculous feat. Gov. Terminator tried to change it to a simple trestle, but the ensuing delay and furor only succeeded in adding to the cost.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bad , but it is a two lane bridge carrying 3800 cars per day .
Actually , that should make it easier to fix.The Bay Bridge is the Big Dig of the west .
It is the largest public works project in California history , a ridiculous feat .
Gov. Terminator tried to change it to a simple trestle , but the ensuing delay and furor only succeeded in adding to the cost .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bad, but it is a two lane bridge carrying 3800 cars per day.
Actually, that should make it easier to fix.The Bay Bridge is the Big Dig of the west.
It is the largest public works project in California history, a ridiculous feat.
Gov. Terminator tried to change it to a simple trestle, but the ensuing delay and furor only succeeded in adding to the cost.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936205</id>
	<title>There *IS* redundancy.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257019260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>People use other bridges and the bart.</p><p>To say there isn't redundancy, is simply silly.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People use other bridges and the bart.To say there is n't redundancy , is simply silly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People use other bridges and the bart.To say there isn't redundancy, is simply silly.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937769</id>
	<title>How many are really inconvenienced?</title>
	<author>ZipK</author>
	<datestamp>1256991540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>... hugely inconveniencing more than 250,000 people a day...</p> </div><p>That estimate is very low. First, the Bay Bridge typically hosts 270,000 <i>vehicles</i> per day. If we assume an average of 1.5 passengers per vehicle, we're still talking about 400,000 Bay Bridge passengers per day.  Second, those diverting from the Bay Bridge are now overfilling BART trains and crowding on to other Bay Area bridges, indirectly inconveniencing many more people.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>... hugely inconveniencing more than 250,000 people a day... That estimate is very low .
First , the Bay Bridge typically hosts 270,000 vehicles per day .
If we assume an average of 1.5 passengers per vehicle , we 're still talking about 400,000 Bay Bridge passengers per day .
Second , those diverting from the Bay Bridge are now overfilling BART trains and crowding on to other Bay Area bridges , indirectly inconveniencing many more people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ... hugely inconveniencing more than 250,000 people a day... That estimate is very low.
First, the Bay Bridge typically hosts 270,000 vehicles per day.
If we assume an average of 1.5 passengers per vehicle, we're still talking about 400,000 Bay Bridge passengers per day.
Second, those diverting from the Bay Bridge are now overfilling BART trains and crowding on to other Bay Area bridges, indirectly inconveniencing many more people.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29939637</id>
	<title>Re:What happened indeed</title>
	<author>MightyYar</author>
	<datestamp>1257013440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What needs to be done is people need to stop depending on oil, and bike to work.</p></div><p>You either have the endurance of Lance Armstrong, or you've never lived in the Bay area. It's pretty liberal (in the same way that Rush Limbaugh is pretty conservative), and some people make a commendable go of commuting by bike... but the topography of the place isn't really amenable to it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What needs to be done is people need to stop depending on oil , and bike to work.You either have the endurance of Lance Armstrong , or you 've never lived in the Bay area .
It 's pretty liberal ( in the same way that Rush Limbaugh is pretty conservative ) , and some people make a commendable go of commuting by bike... but the topography of the place is n't really amenable to it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What needs to be done is people need to stop depending on oil, and bike to work.You either have the endurance of Lance Armstrong, or you've never lived in the Bay area.
It's pretty liberal (in the same way that Rush Limbaugh is pretty conservative), and some people make a commendable go of commuting by bike... but the topography of the place isn't really amenable to it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29938125</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936431</id>
	<title>Re:Lack of redundancy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257021420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Uhh, yep, you know your geography well...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Uhh , yep , you know your geography well.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Uhh, yep, you know your geography well...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936171</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937077</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong audience</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256983500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Parent is modded Funny, but sadly, it's probably more insightful than funny.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Parent is modded Funny , but sadly , it 's probably more insightful than funny .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Parent is modded Funny, but sadly, it's probably more insightful than funny.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936169</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936387</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong audience</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257021180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think your name, speaks for it's self in regards to your post.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think your name , speaks for it 's self in regards to your post .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think your name, speaks for it's self in regards to your post.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936169</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936305</id>
	<title>Welders are a scapegoat</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257020340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>As a hobbyist welder, and someone who has worked with welders in an industrial setting, I strongly doubt that the welding is the culprit. "Faulty welding" doesn't happen on something of the scale of a bridge. If it's one welder working, maybe. But this bridge repair would have had dozens of welders working. No one person's welding could have broken a bridge. Sure, they were under a time crunch, but that doesn't result in shoddy welds. It means more welders are put on task. Those guys are trained and certified and their work is defined by specs that they follow and then is inspected by city or state engineers. If the welding is the problem, it means the original spec was faulty.<br> <br>Seth</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a hobbyist welder , and someone who has worked with welders in an industrial setting , I strongly doubt that the welding is the culprit .
" Faulty welding " does n't happen on something of the scale of a bridge .
If it 's one welder working , maybe .
But this bridge repair would have had dozens of welders working .
No one person 's welding could have broken a bridge .
Sure , they were under a time crunch , but that does n't result in shoddy welds .
It means more welders are put on task .
Those guys are trained and certified and their work is defined by specs that they follow and then is inspected by city or state engineers .
If the welding is the problem , it means the original spec was faulty .
Seth</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a hobbyist welder, and someone who has worked with welders in an industrial setting, I strongly doubt that the welding is the culprit.
"Faulty welding" doesn't happen on something of the scale of a bridge.
If it's one welder working, maybe.
But this bridge repair would have had dozens of welders working.
No one person's welding could have broken a bridge.
Sure, they were under a time crunch, but that doesn't result in shoddy welds.
It means more welders are put on task.
Those guys are trained and certified and their work is defined by specs that they follow and then is inspected by city or state engineers.
If the welding is the problem, it means the original spec was faulty.
Seth</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29939175</id>
	<title>Re:And where did the retro-fit funds go?</title>
	<author>Dun Malg</author>
	<datestamp>1257007680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is just an extension of the state government's usual spendthrift habits.  They've been taking the gasoline tax, intended for road repair and expansion, and spending it on all manner of non-road related projects.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is just an extension of the state government 's usual spendthrift habits .
They 've been taking the gasoline tax , intended for road repair and expansion , and spending it on all manner of non-road related projects .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is just an extension of the state government's usual spendthrift habits.
They've been taking the gasoline tax, intended for road repair and expansion, and spending it on all manner of non-road related projects.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936113</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936133</id>
	<title>small</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257018540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>The USA is small. Think bigger than just the 250k people. The whole infrastructure in the USA is lagging in maintenance, care, repairs and/or replacements. The USA needs trillions to fix this problem but other shenanigans of course have higher priorities. P</htmltext>
<tokenext>The USA is small .
Think bigger than just the 250k people .
The whole infrastructure in the USA is lagging in maintenance , care , repairs and/or replacements .
The USA needs trillions to fix this problem but other shenanigans of course have higher priorities .
P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The USA is small.
Think bigger than just the 250k people.
The whole infrastructure in the USA is lagging in maintenance, care, repairs and/or replacements.
The USA needs trillions to fix this problem but other shenanigans of course have higher priorities.
P</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29940573</id>
	<title>Re:</title>
	<author>clint999</author>
	<datestamp>1257075000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><b>But not as bad as these pictures:There I fixed It  101 simple and efficent solutions for all types of repair from leaky water bowls to damaged utility poles and computers.</b></htmltext>
<tokenext>But not as bad as these pictures : There I fixed It 101 simple and efficent solutions for all types of repair from leaky water bowls to damaged utility poles and computers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But not as bad as these pictures:There I fixed It  101 simple and efficent solutions for all types of repair from leaky water bowls to damaged utility poles and computers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29941599</id>
	<title>Re:And where did the retro-fit funds go?</title>
	<author>moosesocks</author>
	<datestamp>1257090720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I sincerely doubt it's hundreds of millions.</p><p>In fact, pictures/videos/documents seem like a great way to increase transparency, which I think we can all agree is a very good thing.  In this case, there's an abundance of photos and video showing the original repair made last month that should help diagnose the exact causes of the failure -- it would appear that the repairs were <i>installed</i> correctly, but designed improperly.</p><p>I could imagine that the engineers and project managers take quite a bit of photos/video for their own use anyway.  Might as well take the time to do it properly, and make the results available to the public.  It's not like California has any shortage of unemployed artists and photographers who are willing to work for cheap.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I sincerely doubt it 's hundreds of millions.In fact , pictures/videos/documents seem like a great way to increase transparency , which I think we can all agree is a very good thing .
In this case , there 's an abundance of photos and video showing the original repair made last month that should help diagnose the exact causes of the failure -- it would appear that the repairs were installed correctly , but designed improperly.I could imagine that the engineers and project managers take quite a bit of photos/video for their own use anyway .
Might as well take the time to do it properly , and make the results available to the public .
It 's not like California has any shortage of unemployed artists and photographers who are willing to work for cheap .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I sincerely doubt it's hundreds of millions.In fact, pictures/videos/documents seem like a great way to increase transparency, which I think we can all agree is a very good thing.
In this case, there's an abundance of photos and video showing the original repair made last month that should help diagnose the exact causes of the failure -- it would appear that the repairs were installed correctly, but designed improperly.I could imagine that the engineers and project managers take quite a bit of photos/video for their own use anyway.
Might as well take the time to do it properly, and make the results available to the public.
It's not like California has any shortage of unemployed artists and photographers who are willing to work for cheap.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937413</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29938821</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile, in Segovia....</title>
	<author>Agripa</author>
	<datestamp>1257003060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Note that there is a large selection bias in the example you cite. The Romans were great engineers, but I am pretty sure they also built a lot of shitty bridges and aqueducts. It is a sort of natural selection, the ones that are still standing today happen to be the good ones.</p></div></blockquote><p>The nature of the construction they used, unreinforced masonry in compression, is one of the few construction methods that scales up in length, area, and volume reliably.  Such structures never fail in compression because the crush strength of stone is so much higher than the forces involved in any economical structure.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Note that there is a large selection bias in the example you cite .
The Romans were great engineers , but I am pretty sure they also built a lot of shitty bridges and aqueducts .
It is a sort of natural selection , the ones that are still standing today happen to be the good ones.The nature of the construction they used , unreinforced masonry in compression , is one of the few construction methods that scales up in length , area , and volume reliably .
Such structures never fail in compression because the crush strength of stone is so much higher than the forces involved in any economical structure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Note that there is a large selection bias in the example you cite.
The Romans were great engineers, but I am pretty sure they also built a lot of shitty bridges and aqueducts.
It is a sort of natural selection, the ones that are still standing today happen to be the good ones.The nature of the construction they used, unreinforced masonry in compression, is one of the few construction methods that scales up in length, area, and volume reliably.
Such structures never fail in compression because the crush strength of stone is so much higher than the forces involved in any economical structure.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937325</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937355</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong audience</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256986800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your comment is painfully accurate. Thing is, Slashdotters were a lot smarter when I signed up 8 years ago. There have always been Linux obsessives, conspiracy wingnuts, and kneejerk libertarians, but even they had something worth contributing now and then. There was a lot of stupid noise, but every once in a while you could have a really interesting and informative conversation with some random stranger. Now it's all just flames, rants, and temper tantrums.</p><p>I blame changes in the moderation system. Originally, the people who participated in Slashdot the most got the most chances to moderate. Then they changed the system to have moderators chosen solely from the middle of the usage curve, so that heavy users don't get to moderate at all. This means that moderators are sporadic users with no real investment in maintaining a real conversational community.</p><p>More recent changes in metamoderation are even worse. It's not really metamoderation at all, you just say you approve of the article or don't. Useless.</p><p>I've had a few email exchanges with Rob on the subject. He won't even listen to suggestions for minor tweaks, like making it harder to abuse the "overrated" and "underrated" mods. (You're only supposed to use these to counteract simultaneous mods, but you often see these as the <i>only</i> mods on a post; people use them to avoid being metamoderated.) He won't budge from his position that everything's fine.</p><p>I guess from a certain point of view, it is. Slashdot's traffic levels are bigger than ever, and it's probably the biggest profit center Sourceforge Inc. still has. (Sourceforge used to be OSDN, and before that they were VA Linux; the name changes represent a <i>huge</i> number of failed enterprises.) So Rob's first post-college job has brought him fame and fortune. What's not to like? But the original Slashdot community is dead, and I guess it's not coming back.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your comment is painfully accurate .
Thing is , Slashdotters were a lot smarter when I signed up 8 years ago .
There have always been Linux obsessives , conspiracy wingnuts , and kneejerk libertarians , but even they had something worth contributing now and then .
There was a lot of stupid noise , but every once in a while you could have a really interesting and informative conversation with some random stranger .
Now it 's all just flames , rants , and temper tantrums.I blame changes in the moderation system .
Originally , the people who participated in Slashdot the most got the most chances to moderate .
Then they changed the system to have moderators chosen solely from the middle of the usage curve , so that heavy users do n't get to moderate at all .
This means that moderators are sporadic users with no real investment in maintaining a real conversational community.More recent changes in metamoderation are even worse .
It 's not really metamoderation at all , you just say you approve of the article or do n't .
Useless.I 've had a few email exchanges with Rob on the subject .
He wo n't even listen to suggestions for minor tweaks , like making it harder to abuse the " overrated " and " underrated " mods .
( You 're only supposed to use these to counteract simultaneous mods , but you often see these as the only mods on a post ; people use them to avoid being metamoderated .
) He wo n't budge from his position that everything 's fine.I guess from a certain point of view , it is .
Slashdot 's traffic levels are bigger than ever , and it 's probably the biggest profit center Sourceforge Inc. still has .
( Sourceforge used to be OSDN , and before that they were VA Linux ; the name changes represent a huge number of failed enterprises .
) So Rob 's first post-college job has brought him fame and fortune .
What 's not to like ?
But the original Slashdot community is dead , and I guess it 's not coming back .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your comment is painfully accurate.
Thing is, Slashdotters were a lot smarter when I signed up 8 years ago.
There have always been Linux obsessives, conspiracy wingnuts, and kneejerk libertarians, but even they had something worth contributing now and then.
There was a lot of stupid noise, but every once in a while you could have a really interesting and informative conversation with some random stranger.
Now it's all just flames, rants, and temper tantrums.I blame changes in the moderation system.
Originally, the people who participated in Slashdot the most got the most chances to moderate.
Then they changed the system to have moderators chosen solely from the middle of the usage curve, so that heavy users don't get to moderate at all.
This means that moderators are sporadic users with no real investment in maintaining a real conversational community.More recent changes in metamoderation are even worse.
It's not really metamoderation at all, you just say you approve of the article or don't.
Useless.I've had a few email exchanges with Rob on the subject.
He won't even listen to suggestions for minor tweaks, like making it harder to abuse the "overrated" and "underrated" mods.
(You're only supposed to use these to counteract simultaneous mods, but you often see these as the only mods on a post; people use them to avoid being metamoderated.
) He won't budge from his position that everything's fine.I guess from a certain point of view, it is.
Slashdot's traffic levels are bigger than ever, and it's probably the biggest profit center Sourceforge Inc. still has.
(Sourceforge used to be OSDN, and before that they were VA Linux; the name changes represent a huge number of failed enterprises.
) So Rob's first post-college job has brought him fame and fortune.
What's not to like?
But the original Slashdot community is dead, and I guess it's not coming back.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936169</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29939655</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile, in Segovia....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257013560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Great, they built a big stone bridge... now pass a container ship under it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Great , they built a big stone bridge... now pass a container ship under it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Great, they built a big stone bridge... now pass a container ship under it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937139</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29948478</id>
	<title>Re:And where did the retro-fit funds go?</title>
	<author>Xest</author>
	<datestamp>1257156540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was going to say:</p><p>"As a Brit, I have to ask. Why the fuck does a bridge need a website?"</p><p>Then I found this:</p><p><a href="http://www.towerbridge.org.uk/TBE/EN/" title="towerbridge.org.uk">http://www.towerbridge.org.uk/TBE/EN/</a> [towerbridge.org.uk]</p><p>So don't worry, it's apparently not just the US that builds websites and creates "new media" for bridges.</p><p>I mean, come on, it's a bridge, it's used to cross something that would otherwise be difficult / impossible to cross. Does it really need to be anything more than that? As you say, it all seems like quite a waste of money that could be better spent elsewhere. Even if the bridge has some historical element to it wouldn't it be better to let a museum central to the whole of the city handle that?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was going to say : " As a Brit , I have to ask .
Why the fuck does a bridge need a website ?
" Then I found this : http : //www.towerbridge.org.uk/TBE/EN/ [ towerbridge.org.uk ] So do n't worry , it 's apparently not just the US that builds websites and creates " new media " for bridges.I mean , come on , it 's a bridge , it 's used to cross something that would otherwise be difficult / impossible to cross .
Does it really need to be anything more than that ?
As you say , it all seems like quite a waste of money that could be better spent elsewhere .
Even if the bridge has some historical element to it would n't it be better to let a museum central to the whole of the city handle that ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was going to say:"As a Brit, I have to ask.
Why the fuck does a bridge need a website?
"Then I found this:http://www.towerbridge.org.uk/TBE/EN/ [towerbridge.org.uk]So don't worry, it's apparently not just the US that builds websites and creates "new media" for bridges.I mean, come on, it's a bridge, it's used to cross something that would otherwise be difficult / impossible to cross.
Does it really need to be anything more than that?
As you say, it all seems like quite a waste of money that could be better spent elsewhere.
Even if the bridge has some historical element to it wouldn't it be better to let a museum central to the whole of the city handle that?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937413</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936167</id>
	<title>Lets see here...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257018780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Lets see, when you have a pretty much bankrupt state (California), a bridge that is too necessary to fully replace without inconveniencing many people, the fact that it isn't exactly in a stable environment, with wind, rain and corrosion everywhere is it any surprise that a bridge that has been up for over 70 years needs some emergency repairs?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Lets see , when you have a pretty much bankrupt state ( California ) , a bridge that is too necessary to fully replace without inconveniencing many people , the fact that it is n't exactly in a stable environment , with wind , rain and corrosion everywhere is it any surprise that a bridge that has been up for over 70 years needs some emergency repairs ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lets see, when you have a pretty much bankrupt state (California), a bridge that is too necessary to fully replace without inconveniencing many people, the fact that it isn't exactly in a stable environment, with wind, rain and corrosion everywhere is it any surprise that a bridge that has been up for over 70 years needs some emergency repairs?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937139</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile, in Segovia....</title>
	<author>smoker2</author>
	<datestamp>1256984400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't think all 250,000 vehicles are on the bridge at once. Considering a cubic metre of water weighs a tonne, any <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pont\_du\_Gard" title="wikipedia.org">aqueduct</a> [wikipedia.org] with a water channel 1 metre wide, 1 metre deep and longer than 100 metres is carrying at least 100 tonnes at any moment, constantly. And your last comment is derisable, considering a dead slave is worth nothing so at the least they must be fed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think all 250,000 vehicles are on the bridge at once .
Considering a cubic metre of water weighs a tonne , any aqueduct [ wikipedia.org ] with a water channel 1 metre wide , 1 metre deep and longer than 100 metres is carrying at least 100 tonnes at any moment , constantly .
And your last comment is derisable , considering a dead slave is worth nothing so at the least they must be fed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think all 250,000 vehicles are on the bridge at once.
Considering a cubic metre of water weighs a tonne, any aqueduct [wikipedia.org] with a water channel 1 metre wide, 1 metre deep and longer than 100 metres is carrying at least 100 tonnes at any moment, constantly.
And your last comment is derisable, considering a dead slave is worth nothing so at the least they must be fed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936523</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936089</id>
	<title>INAE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257018240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm not an engineer, but I suspect there was a lot of cost cutting going on by all parties involved.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not an engineer , but I suspect there was a lot of cost cutting going on by all parties involved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not an engineer, but I suspect there was a lot of cost cutting going on by all parties involved.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29938689</id>
	<title>Re:What engineering is really about.</title>
	<author>DerekLyons</author>
	<datestamp>1257001200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The link you designed was then machined out of aluminum by a machinist. It was put in a testing machine and placed under the specified load. If the link broke, you failed the course.</p></div></blockquote><p>Took a school like that in the Navy, six weeks on the mechanics of a disk drive.  (The size of a footlocker, with hydraulic, mechanical, electromagnetic, and optical components.  It held an amazing 10meg (not shabby for a 1964 era drive) and was built like a friggin' tank.)  For the final exam you walked in and the whole damn thing was dismantled and spread out on 3-4 tables...<br>
&nbsp; <br>You had two days to put it back together and perform all the alignments - then it was plugged into it's electronics and the 'self test' button was pushed.  If it passed, you did.  If it didn't, you didn't - and got to repeat the entire school.<br>
&nbsp; <br>Don't even ask about the school on the drive electronics.  Nearly a quarter of a century later I <i>still</i> have nightmares about that school.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The link you designed was then machined out of aluminum by a machinist .
It was put in a testing machine and placed under the specified load .
If the link broke , you failed the course.Took a school like that in the Navy , six weeks on the mechanics of a disk drive .
( The size of a footlocker , with hydraulic , mechanical , electromagnetic , and optical components .
It held an amazing 10meg ( not shabby for a 1964 era drive ) and was built like a friggin ' tank .
) For the final exam you walked in and the whole damn thing was dismantled and spread out on 3-4 tables.. .   You had two days to put it back together and perform all the alignments - then it was plugged into it 's electronics and the 'self test ' button was pushed .
If it passed , you did .
If it did n't , you did n't - and got to repeat the entire school .
  Do n't even ask about the school on the drive electronics .
Nearly a quarter of a century later I still have nightmares about that school .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The link you designed was then machined out of aluminum by a machinist.
It was put in a testing machine and placed under the specified load.
If the link broke, you failed the course.Took a school like that in the Navy, six weeks on the mechanics of a disk drive.
(The size of a footlocker, with hydraulic, mechanical, electromagnetic, and optical components.
It held an amazing 10meg (not shabby for a 1964 era drive) and was built like a friggin' tank.
)  For the final exam you walked in and the whole damn thing was dismantled and spread out on 3-4 tables...
  You had two days to put it back together and perform all the alignments - then it was plugged into it's electronics and the 'self test' button was pushed.
If it passed, you did.
If it didn't, you didn't - and got to repeat the entire school.
  Don't even ask about the school on the drive electronics.
Nearly a quarter of a century later I still have nightmares about that school.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936577</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937465</id>
	<title>Re:There *IS* redundancy.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256987940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As someone who crosses one of the other bridges (The Golden Gate) on a daily basis, that's only technically true. The reality is that the bay area doesn't work without the bay bridge. A drive that's normally in the 20 min range took 3 hours on wednesday. And I've heard it was worse to the south.</p><p>It's a bit like saying you've got redundancy when you've got a T3 and a modem line...it's technically correct, but practically false.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As someone who crosses one of the other bridges ( The Golden Gate ) on a daily basis , that 's only technically true .
The reality is that the bay area does n't work without the bay bridge .
A drive that 's normally in the 20 min range took 3 hours on wednesday .
And I 've heard it was worse to the south.It 's a bit like saying you 've got redundancy when you 've got a T3 and a modem line...it 's technically correct , but practically false .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As someone who crosses one of the other bridges (The Golden Gate) on a daily basis, that's only technically true.
The reality is that the bay area doesn't work without the bay bridge.
A drive that's normally in the 20 min range took 3 hours on wednesday.
And I've heard it was worse to the south.It's a bit like saying you've got redundancy when you've got a T3 and a modem line...it's technically correct, but practically false.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936205</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936417</id>
	<title>Re:Lets see here...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257021360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"In 2003, Californians sent $50 billion more to Washington in federal taxes than the state received in federal expenditures.  Representing a slight increase from levels that have held steady for three preceding years, the Golden State&rsquo;s imbalance set a new record for any state, surpassing the previous mark (set also by California, in 2000 and 2001) of $48 billion."</p><p><a href="http://www.calinst.org/pubs/balance2003.htm" title="calinst.org">http://www.calinst.org/pubs/balance2003.htm</a> [calinst.org]</p><p>Maybe if that weren't the case, California wouldn't be so broke right now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" In 2003 , Californians sent $ 50 billion more to Washington in federal taxes than the state received in federal expenditures .
Representing a slight increase from levels that have held steady for three preceding years , the Golden State    s imbalance set a new record for any state , surpassing the previous mark ( set also by California , in 2000 and 2001 ) of $ 48 billion .
" http : //www.calinst.org/pubs/balance2003.htm [ calinst.org ] Maybe if that were n't the case , California would n't be so broke right now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"In 2003, Californians sent $50 billion more to Washington in federal taxes than the state received in federal expenditures.
Representing a slight increase from levels that have held steady for three preceding years, the Golden State’s imbalance set a new record for any state, surpassing the previous mark (set also by California, in 2000 and 2001) of $48 billion.
"http://www.calinst.org/pubs/balance2003.htm [calinst.org]Maybe if that weren't the case, California wouldn't be so broke right now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936167</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29939305</id>
	<title>Re:There *IS* redundancy.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257009480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"People use other bridges and the bart."</p><p><b>The</b> bart?!?!?!?!</p><p>ROFLAMO</p><p>You must be from L.A. Please go back there. You can take <b>the</b> 5.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" People use other bridges and the bart .
" The bart ? ! ? ! ? ! ?
! ROFLAMOYou must be from L.A. Please go back there .
You can take the 5 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"People use other bridges and the bart.
"The bart?!?!?!?
!ROFLAMOYou must be from L.A. Please go back there.
You can take the 5.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936205</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29939629</id>
	<title>Re:still dead!</title>
	<author>zebu111</author>
	<datestamp>1257013260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>shit happens people... like anyone here could fix it

the worse part for me is i cant get to my drug dealer in Oakland</htmltext>
<tokenext>shit happens people... like anyone here could fix it the worse part for me is i cant get to my drug dealer in Oakland</tokentext>
<sentencetext>shit happens people... like anyone here could fix it

the worse part for me is i cant get to my drug dealer in Oakland</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936061</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29939709</id>
	<title>Re:INAE</title>
	<author>mikael</author>
	<datestamp>1257014340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But not as bad as these pictures:</p><p><a href="http://thereifixedit.com/" title="thereifixedit.com">There I fixed It</a> [thereifixedit.com]</p><p>101 simple and efficent solutions for all types of repair from leaky water bowls to damaged utility poles and computers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But not as bad as these pictures : There I fixed It [ thereifixedit.com ] 101 simple and efficent solutions for all types of repair from leaky water bowls to damaged utility poles and computers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But not as bad as these pictures:There I fixed It [thereifixedit.com]101 simple and efficent solutions for all types of repair from leaky water bowls to damaged utility poles and computers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936089</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29938491</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong audience</title>
	<author>LynnwoodRooster</author>
	<datestamp>1256999340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You left out "if Steve Jobs did the rework not only would it be right but your car would drive itself across the new iBridge 2.0..."</htmltext>
<tokenext>You left out " if Steve Jobs did the rework not only would it be right but your car would drive itself across the new iBridge 2.0... "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You left out "if Steve Jobs did the rework not only would it be right but your car would drive itself across the new iBridge 2.0..."</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936169</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29938351</id>
	<title>Re:Don't blame the three caltrans employees</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256998020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If they had wrapped the whole repair with duct tape the rods would not have vibrated and so would not have failed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If they had wrapped the whole repair with duct tape the rods would not have vibrated and so would not have failed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they had wrapped the whole repair with duct tape the rods would not have vibrated and so would not have failed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936435</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936851</id>
	<title>Wind usually not a problem.</title>
	<author>Animats</author>
	<datestamp>1256981400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
It's surprising that they had trouble there.  That's a big, stiff truss span, with lots of cross-bracing.  Those usually don't have serious wind problems.  (The <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tay\_Bridge\_disaster" title="wikipedia.org">Tay Bridge disaster</a> [wikipedia.org] was, of course, one involving a truss bridge.  But it was badly designed and very badly fabricated.)
The worst case for wind is a long, narrow, thin span.  The Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapsed through that kind of failure, and the Golden Gate Bridge was vulnerable to it.  In 1951, during high winds, the Golden Gate Bridge deflected enough that one side of the roadbed was 11 feet higher than the other.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/dr\_memory/537887097/" title="flickr.com">Stiffening trusses</a> [flickr.com] were added under the span.  (These are big trusses, each over 20' high, but the bridge is so huge that few people noticed the retrofit.)
</p><p>
In the 1989 quake, the Bay Bridge had an upper deck section break at the joint between the high truss span and the lower spans.  That was an impedance mismatch - the two sections oscillated in different ways, and the stress at the transition point was enough to break bolts.  When the Bay Bridge was designed in the 1930s, those problems weren't well understood, and could not yet be simulated.
</p><p>
The problem seems to be that the quick fix for the crack was underdesigned.  That was recognized within days, and a second fix was under construction.
</p><p>
The damaged eyebar could be replaced, but that requires fabricating a new eyebar and some specialized tooling to take off the load from that whole eyebar chain during repair.  This span will be torn down in a few years, when the new span is finished, so that may not be worth it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's surprising that they had trouble there .
That 's a big , stiff truss span , with lots of cross-bracing .
Those usually do n't have serious wind problems .
( The Tay Bridge disaster [ wikipedia.org ] was , of course , one involving a truss bridge .
But it was badly designed and very badly fabricated .
) The worst case for wind is a long , narrow , thin span .
The Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapsed through that kind of failure , and the Golden Gate Bridge was vulnerable to it .
In 1951 , during high winds , the Golden Gate Bridge deflected enough that one side of the roadbed was 11 feet higher than the other .
Stiffening trusses [ flickr.com ] were added under the span .
( These are big trusses , each over 20 ' high , but the bridge is so huge that few people noticed the retrofit .
) In the 1989 quake , the Bay Bridge had an upper deck section break at the joint between the high truss span and the lower spans .
That was an impedance mismatch - the two sections oscillated in different ways , and the stress at the transition point was enough to break bolts .
When the Bay Bridge was designed in the 1930s , those problems were n't well understood , and could not yet be simulated .
The problem seems to be that the quick fix for the crack was underdesigned .
That was recognized within days , and a second fix was under construction .
The damaged eyebar could be replaced , but that requires fabricating a new eyebar and some specialized tooling to take off the load from that whole eyebar chain during repair .
This span will be torn down in a few years , when the new span is finished , so that may not be worth it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
It's surprising that they had trouble there.
That's a big, stiff truss span, with lots of cross-bracing.
Those usually don't have serious wind problems.
(The Tay Bridge disaster [wikipedia.org] was, of course, one involving a truss bridge.
But it was badly designed and very badly fabricated.
)
The worst case for wind is a long, narrow, thin span.
The Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapsed through that kind of failure, and the Golden Gate Bridge was vulnerable to it.
In 1951, during high winds, the Golden Gate Bridge deflected enough that one side of the roadbed was 11 feet higher than the other.
Stiffening trusses [flickr.com] were added under the span.
(These are big trusses, each over 20' high, but the bridge is so huge that few people noticed the retrofit.
)

In the 1989 quake, the Bay Bridge had an upper deck section break at the joint between the high truss span and the lower spans.
That was an impedance mismatch - the two sections oscillated in different ways, and the stress at the transition point was enough to break bolts.
When the Bay Bridge was designed in the 1930s, those problems weren't well understood, and could not yet be simulated.
The problem seems to be that the quick fix for the crack was underdesigned.
That was recognized within days, and a second fix was under construction.
The damaged eyebar could be replaced, but that requires fabricating a new eyebar and some specialized tooling to take off the load from that whole eyebar chain during repair.
This span will be torn down in a few years, when the new span is finished, so that may not be worth it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29939315</id>
	<title>Re:Welders are a scapegoat</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257009600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I read TFA, and the author clearly isn't a structural engineer. I used to do this stuff, before I went into software.</p><p>1) Strain gauges. Damn straight I'd want them. You get Data from those.<br>2) Tack welds -- If they really were tack welds, then I'm not suprised they failed. Tack welds might fail out of spite on a 2" plate due to cooling strains. No one with any sort of bridge certification would use a tack weld on a member that size anywhere near a cyclic load.<br>3) We know it's a cyclic load because there was a fatigue crack on the original.<br>4) Those aren't cables. Those are bars. Big Freaking Strong Ass Bars. Bars are threaded, cables have three wedge anchorages.  I'm going to guess in the 200K# range.</p><p>My guess?  I think that the engineers assumed things would be straight. That anchorage is built for very straight compression. Something shifted enough that there was some rotation, and the tack weld failed in spite. I'd say that something was the overall shape of the muti-eyebar member. Once you've got the weld failed, then you're compressing plates end on with less support, and bad things happen.</p><p>(guess, 10 years out of bridge engineering, but I've designed some retrofitting of post-tensioning, so I have at least done something like this).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I read TFA , and the author clearly is n't a structural engineer .
I used to do this stuff , before I went into software.1 ) Strain gauges .
Damn straight I 'd want them .
You get Data from those.2 ) Tack welds -- If they really were tack welds , then I 'm not suprised they failed .
Tack welds might fail out of spite on a 2 " plate due to cooling strains .
No one with any sort of bridge certification would use a tack weld on a member that size anywhere near a cyclic load.3 ) We know it 's a cyclic load because there was a fatigue crack on the original.4 ) Those are n't cables .
Those are bars .
Big Freaking Strong Ass Bars .
Bars are threaded , cables have three wedge anchorages .
I 'm going to guess in the 200K # range.My guess ?
I think that the engineers assumed things would be straight .
That anchorage is built for very straight compression .
Something shifted enough that there was some rotation , and the tack weld failed in spite .
I 'd say that something was the overall shape of the muti-eyebar member .
Once you 've got the weld failed , then you 're compressing plates end on with less support , and bad things happen .
( guess , 10 years out of bridge engineering , but I 've designed some retrofitting of post-tensioning , so I have at least done something like this ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I read TFA, and the author clearly isn't a structural engineer.
I used to do this stuff, before I went into software.1) Strain gauges.
Damn straight I'd want them.
You get Data from those.2) Tack welds -- If they really were tack welds, then I'm not suprised they failed.
Tack welds might fail out of spite on a 2" plate due to cooling strains.
No one with any sort of bridge certification would use a tack weld on a member that size anywhere near a cyclic load.3) We know it's a cyclic load because there was a fatigue crack on the original.4) Those aren't cables.
Those are bars.
Big Freaking Strong Ass Bars.
Bars are threaded, cables have three wedge anchorages.
I'm going to guess in the 200K# range.My guess?
I think that the engineers assumed things would be straight.
That anchorage is built for very straight compression.
Something shifted enough that there was some rotation, and the tack weld failed in spite.
I'd say that something was the overall shape of the muti-eyebar member.
Once you've got the weld failed, then you're compressing plates end on with less support, and bad things happen.
(guess, 10 years out of bridge engineering, but I've designed some retrofitting of post-tensioning, so I have at least done something like this).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936571</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29938319</id>
	<title>Re:Welders are a scapegoat</title>
	<author>cryptor3</author>
	<datestamp>1256997660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Who wrote that article anyway? Some guy on the internet who looks at some pictures of the repair and thinks he knows what a bunch of engineers working on the problem didn't know?</p></div><p>Reading the article, it sounded more like sports commentary.  He's looking at the evidence available to him and attempting to give his thoughts on what he thinks happened.  It's not that he thinks he's smarter than the engineers, it's that he's interested in this incident, and he's using available public knowledge and his engineering interest to explain what he thinks about the event.  Sorta like Bill Nye? It seems pretty obvious to me, given the way that he defines basic terms, that he's trying take a technical issue and explain it to a nontechnical audience.</p><p>I've got no basis for knowing if he's right or wrong, but if you think you know better, why not send him your ideas? He does seem to be reading mail.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Who wrote that article anyway ?
Some guy on the internet who looks at some pictures of the repair and thinks he knows what a bunch of engineers working on the problem did n't know ? Reading the article , it sounded more like sports commentary .
He 's looking at the evidence available to him and attempting to give his thoughts on what he thinks happened .
It 's not that he thinks he 's smarter than the engineers , it 's that he 's interested in this incident , and he 's using available public knowledge and his engineering interest to explain what he thinks about the event .
Sorta like Bill Nye ?
It seems pretty obvious to me , given the way that he defines basic terms , that he 's trying take a technical issue and explain it to a nontechnical audience.I 've got no basis for knowing if he 's right or wrong , but if you think you know better , why not send him your ideas ?
He does seem to be reading mail .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who wrote that article anyway?
Some guy on the internet who looks at some pictures of the repair and thinks he knows what a bunch of engineers working on the problem didn't know?Reading the article, it sounded more like sports commentary.
He's looking at the evidence available to him and attempting to give his thoughts on what he thinks happened.
It's not that he thinks he's smarter than the engineers, it's that he's interested in this incident, and he's using available public knowledge and his engineering interest to explain what he thinks about the event.
Sorta like Bill Nye?
It seems pretty obvious to me, given the way that he defines basic terms, that he's trying take a technical issue and explain it to a nontechnical audience.I've got no basis for knowing if he's right or wrong, but if you think you know better, why not send him your ideas?
He does seem to be reading mail.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936571</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936661</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile, in Segovia....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256980020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Roman Aqueducts were made of stone. The bridges in San Francisco were made of steel.</p><p>Stone erodes. This takes a long time. The erosion can be seen on the original stones in the aqueduct you mentionned. It is happening, slowly but surely, and eventually, if not properly maintained, the aqueduct will collapse. (parts of it have already collapsed, and been repaired... it's in the Wiki you linked, even.)</p><p>Steel corrodes. Unlike erosion, corrosion happens relatively quickly. Again, with proper maintenance, it can be mitigated, but it doesn't take long at all for it to become a significant issue. Like erosion, corrosion happens mostly on the surfaces, but water and other catalysts for erosion have a way of getting into cracks and crevasses, and eroding smaller things like bolts and rivets, which can't really be seen without taking the bridge apart.</p><p>When you can show me a way to build a mile-long suspension bridge out of stone, I'll be listening.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Roman Aqueducts were made of stone .
The bridges in San Francisco were made of steel.Stone erodes .
This takes a long time .
The erosion can be seen on the original stones in the aqueduct you mentionned .
It is happening , slowly but surely , and eventually , if not properly maintained , the aqueduct will collapse .
( parts of it have already collapsed , and been repaired... it 's in the Wiki you linked , even .
) Steel corrodes .
Unlike erosion , corrosion happens relatively quickly .
Again , with proper maintenance , it can be mitigated , but it does n't take long at all for it to become a significant issue .
Like erosion , corrosion happens mostly on the surfaces , but water and other catalysts for erosion have a way of getting into cracks and crevasses , and eroding smaller things like bolts and rivets , which ca n't really be seen without taking the bridge apart.When you can show me a way to build a mile-long suspension bridge out of stone , I 'll be listening .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Roman Aqueducts were made of stone.
The bridges in San Francisco were made of steel.Stone erodes.
This takes a long time.
The erosion can be seen on the original stones in the aqueduct you mentionned.
It is happening, slowly but surely, and eventually, if not properly maintained, the aqueduct will collapse.
(parts of it have already collapsed, and been repaired... it's in the Wiki you linked, even.
)Steel corrodes.
Unlike erosion, corrosion happens relatively quickly.
Again, with proper maintenance, it can be mitigated, but it doesn't take long at all for it to become a significant issue.
Like erosion, corrosion happens mostly on the surfaces, but water and other catalysts for erosion have a way of getting into cracks and crevasses, and eroding smaller things like bolts and rivets, which can't really be seen without taking the bridge apart.When you can show me a way to build a mile-long suspension bridge out of stone, I'll be listening.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936395</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937811</id>
	<title>Re:Welders are a scapegoat</title>
	<author>hey!</author>
	<datestamp>1256992200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It might better be described as a faulty design which asked too much of the weld, then faulty welding.</p><p>The weld in question was on a prefabricated part that broke apart in the field.  The pictures clearly show that.  So what you say goes double.  It's very unlikely that the weld was performed incorrectly.</p><p>My guess is that the behavior of the part hadn't been characterized well enough before the design was settled on.   I'm guessing the part and weld were probably plenty strong, so long as the part didn't move.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It might better be described as a faulty design which asked too much of the weld , then faulty welding.The weld in question was on a prefabricated part that broke apart in the field .
The pictures clearly show that .
So what you say goes double .
It 's very unlikely that the weld was performed incorrectly.My guess is that the behavior of the part had n't been characterized well enough before the design was settled on .
I 'm guessing the part and weld were probably plenty strong , so long as the part did n't move .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It might better be described as a faulty design which asked too much of the weld, then faulty welding.The weld in question was on a prefabricated part that broke apart in the field.
The pictures clearly show that.
So what you say goes double.
It's very unlikely that the weld was performed incorrectly.My guess is that the behavior of the part hadn't been characterized well enough before the design was settled on.
I'm guessing the part and weld were probably plenty strong, so long as the part didn't move.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936305</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937259</id>
	<title>What is a "San Francisco"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256985660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And who gives a fuck.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And who gives a fuck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And who gives a fuck.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937661</id>
	<title>Re:Lets see here...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256990100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>redistribution of wealth</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>redistribution of wealth</tokentext>
<sentencetext>redistribution of wealth</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936417</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29941641</id>
	<title>kick the wrench</title>
	<author>tem123</author>
	<datestamp>1257091080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The threaded rod looked to be a very coarse thread , no washers - no lubrication, they used a 2-3foot wrench to tighten it - kicked it - from the caltrans pictures.<br>Is that enough force to even take the slop out this setup?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The threaded rod looked to be a very coarse thread , no washers - no lubrication , they used a 2-3foot wrench to tighten it - kicked it - from the caltrans pictures.Is that enough force to even take the slop out this setup ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The threaded rod looked to be a very coarse thread , no washers - no lubrication, they used a 2-3foot wrench to tighten it - kicked it - from the caltrans pictures.Is that enough force to even take the slop out this setup?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29958608</id>
	<title>Re:And where did the retro-fit funds go?</title>
	<author>GWBasic</author>
	<datestamp>1257174240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>But it kind of looks like they think because they have Hollywood they need to make the audiovisual aspect Hollywood grade</p></div><p>I get the impression that you've never met an "entertainment person".  They can't tell the difference between entertaining people and real work.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>But it kind of looks like they think because they have Hollywood they need to make the audiovisual aspect Hollywood gradeI get the impression that you 've never met an " entertainment person " .
They ca n't tell the difference between entertaining people and real work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But it kind of looks like they think because they have Hollywood they need to make the audiovisual aspect Hollywood gradeI get the impression that you've never met an "entertainment person".
They can't tell the difference between entertaining people and real work.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937413</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936715</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile, in Segovia....</title>
	<author>Colonel Korn</author>
	<datestamp>1256980380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Meanwhile, in Segovia (Spain), the Roman aqueduct is still up &amp; running :
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqueduct\_of\_Segovia" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqueduct\_of\_Segovia</a> [wikipedia.org] </p><p>Without mortar, with just granite blocks on top of each other, it is more than 2000 years old.
I can't help but wonder when mankind began to suck at building anything that should last more than a few years....</p></div><p>You have something of a point, sort of, but in addition to the problems pointed out by the other responses, you forgot to scroll down in that Wikipedia article and notice that the Aqueduct of Segovia has been reconstructed multiple times.  Also note that we think of it as special because it's still there, whereas most other aqueducts collapsed 100-1600 years ago.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Meanwhile , in Segovia ( Spain ) , the Roman aqueduct is still up &amp; running : http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqueduct \ _of \ _Segovia [ wikipedia.org ] Without mortar , with just granite blocks on top of each other , it is more than 2000 years old .
I ca n't help but wonder when mankind began to suck at building anything that should last more than a few years....You have something of a point , sort of , but in addition to the problems pointed out by the other responses , you forgot to scroll down in that Wikipedia article and notice that the Aqueduct of Segovia has been reconstructed multiple times .
Also note that we think of it as special because it 's still there , whereas most other aqueducts collapsed 100-1600 years ago .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Meanwhile, in Segovia (Spain), the Roman aqueduct is still up &amp; running :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqueduct\_of\_Segovia [wikipedia.org] Without mortar, with just granite blocks on top of each other, it is more than 2000 years old.
I can't help but wonder when mankind began to suck at building anything that should last more than a few years....You have something of a point, sort of, but in addition to the problems pointed out by the other responses, you forgot to scroll down in that Wikipedia article and notice that the Aqueduct of Segovia has been reconstructed multiple times.
Also note that we think of it as special because it's still there, whereas most other aqueducts collapsed 100-1600 years ago.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936395</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936441</id>
	<title>Closed for DAYS?  Lucky California.</title>
	<author>sajuuk</author>
	<datestamp>1257021480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Consider yourself lucky Californians.  Us dwellers of Northern New York have a much bigger problem than you have if we want to get to Vermont.  The NY DoT let the Crown Point Bridge, one of only two bridges across Lake Champlain fall into utter disrepair and it is now closed indefinitely.  The shortest 'detour' to go across the lake and into Vermont adds around 100 miles to the trip, just to get to the crossing.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Consider yourself lucky Californians .
Us dwellers of Northern New York have a much bigger problem than you have if we want to get to Vermont .
The NY DoT let the Crown Point Bridge , one of only two bridges across Lake Champlain fall into utter disrepair and it is now closed indefinitely .
The shortest 'detour ' to go across the lake and into Vermont adds around 100 miles to the trip , just to get to the crossing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Consider yourself lucky Californians.
Us dwellers of Northern New York have a much bigger problem than you have if we want to get to Vermont.
The NY DoT let the Crown Point Bridge, one of only two bridges across Lake Champlain fall into utter disrepair and it is now closed indefinitely.
The shortest 'detour' to go across the lake and into Vermont adds around 100 miles to the trip, just to get to the crossing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937073</id>
	<title>Minneapolis all over again: it was the snow!</title>
	<author>SebastianPY</author>
	<datestamp>1256983500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wondering why no-one took into account the snow factor: in my professional opinion, the sub-zero temperatures of the bay area are what caused the problem in the first place.

<p>This is exactly what happened with the Minneapolis bridge!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wondering why no-one took into account the snow factor : in my professional opinion , the sub-zero temperatures of the bay area are what caused the problem in the first place .
This is exactly what happened with the Minneapolis bridge !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wondering why no-one took into account the snow factor: in my professional opinion, the sub-zero temperatures of the bay area are what caused the problem in the first place.
This is exactly what happened with the Minneapolis bridge!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29953140</id>
	<title>"Bay Bridge Now Open"</title>
	<author>Zotdogg</author>
	<datestamp>1257191460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Looks like it's finally back up.<br>
<br>
511.org (Traffic)<br>
<a href="http://www.511.org/baybridge/default.asp" title="511.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.511.org/baybridge/default.asp</a> [511.org] <br>
<br>
Bay Bridge site:<br>
<a href="http://baybridgeinfo.org/" title="baybridgeinfo.org" rel="nofollow">http://baybridgeinfo.org/</a> [baybridgeinfo.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Looks like it 's finally back up .
511.org ( Traffic ) http : //www.511.org/baybridge/default.asp [ 511.org ] Bay Bridge site : http : //baybridgeinfo.org/ [ baybridgeinfo.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Looks like it's finally back up.
511.org (Traffic)
http://www.511.org/baybridge/default.asp [511.org] 

Bay Bridge site:
http://baybridgeinfo.org/ [baybridgeinfo.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29944502</id>
	<title>Re:And where did the retro-fit funds go?</title>
	<author>bvankuik</author>
	<datestamp>1257071640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When we bought our to-be-built house, we received a brochure and drawings which In my estimate would probably cost between $800 to $1200. That's for an appartment costing $350K close to the center of a big city.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When we bought our to-be-built house , we received a brochure and drawings which In my estimate would probably cost between $ 800 to $ 1200 .
That 's for an appartment costing $ 350K close to the center of a big city .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When we bought our to-be-built house, we received a brochure and drawings which In my estimate would probably cost between $800 to $1200.
That's for an appartment costing $350K close to the center of a big city.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937413</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29939897</id>
	<title>You dipshit - the bridges are funded by tolls</title>
	<author>ishobo</author>
	<datestamp>1257018120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Perhaps if the state...</p></div><p>Perhaps if you know what the fuck you were talking about. This is why it is pointless to listen to anobody on Slashhdot, 99\% of the comments are bullshit.</p><p>All the bay bridges, except the Golden Gate, are managed be the Bay Area Toll Authority and funded by tolls. Educate yourself.</p><p><a href="http://bata.mtc.ca.gov/" title="ca.gov">http://bata.mtc.ca.gov/</a> [ca.gov]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps if the state...Perhaps if you know what the fuck you were talking about .
This is why it is pointless to listen to anobody on Slashhdot , 99 \ % of the comments are bullshit.All the bay bridges , except the Golden Gate , are managed be the Bay Area Toll Authority and funded by tolls .
Educate yourself.http : //bata.mtc.ca.gov/ [ ca.gov ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps if the state...Perhaps if you know what the fuck you were talking about.
This is why it is pointless to listen to anobody on Slashhdot, 99\% of the comments are bullshit.All the bay bridges, except the Golden Gate, are managed be the Bay Area Toll Authority and funded by tolls.
Educate yourself.http://bata.mtc.ca.gov/ [ca.gov]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936313</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29945720</id>
	<title>Re:still dead!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257081720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>THIRD WORLD PEOPLE = THIRD WORLD COUNTRY.</p><p>THAT is what happened to the Bay Bridge. But liberal idiots will continue to LIE until the entire United States collapses under the weight of the fucked up, worthless, criminal and STUPID third world SCUM.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>THIRD WORLD PEOPLE = THIRD WORLD COUNTRY.THAT is what happened to the Bay Bridge .
But liberal idiots will continue to LIE until the entire United States collapses under the weight of the fucked up , worthless , criminal and STUPID third world SCUM .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>THIRD WORLD PEOPLE = THIRD WORLD COUNTRY.THAT is what happened to the Bay Bridge.
But liberal idiots will continue to LIE until the entire United States collapses under the weight of the fucked up, worthless, criminal and STUPID third world SCUM.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936061</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936829</id>
	<title>Re:Lets see here...</title>
	<author>Alcari</author>
	<datestamp>1256981220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes, it's very strange should require "emergency repairs".
It should have undergone regular maintenance a decade ago, and a decade before that, and the decade before that. A pre-war bridge should be inspected regularly because it requires maintenance.

The fact that it's closed due to emergency repairs is because it has either been passed by for regular repairs, or has been completely ignored.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , it 's very strange should require " emergency repairs " .
It should have undergone regular maintenance a decade ago , and a decade before that , and the decade before that .
A pre-war bridge should be inspected regularly because it requires maintenance .
The fact that it 's closed due to emergency repairs is because it has either been passed by for regular repairs , or has been completely ignored .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, it's very strange should require "emergency repairs".
It should have undergone regular maintenance a decade ago, and a decade before that, and the decade before that.
A pre-war bridge should be inspected regularly because it requires maintenance.
The fact that it's closed due to emergency repairs is because it has either been passed by for regular repairs, or has been completely ignored.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936167</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937557</id>
	<title>Re:Lets see here...</title>
	<author>caladine</author>
	<datestamp>1256989140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Looking at that report, there are quite a few other states that see a significantly smaller "ROI" for federal funds than California (Check out NJ's 0.5, compared to Cali's 0.79).  It's nothing but pure sensationalism when people talk in absolute numbers.  Besides, one should look at how much money California takes in every year as a percentage of it's gross "domestic" product.  Maybe if they weren't spending so much on social programs and padding their votes, they might have something left from that amazingly large take for infrastructure.  Not that this is a problem unique to California or anything...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Looking at that report , there are quite a few other states that see a significantly smaller " ROI " for federal funds than California ( Check out NJ 's 0.5 , compared to Cali 's 0.79 ) .
It 's nothing but pure sensationalism when people talk in absolute numbers .
Besides , one should look at how much money California takes in every year as a percentage of it 's gross " domestic " product .
Maybe if they were n't spending so much on social programs and padding their votes , they might have something left from that amazingly large take for infrastructure .
Not that this is a problem unique to California or anything.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Looking at that report, there are quite a few other states that see a significantly smaller "ROI" for federal funds than California (Check out NJ's 0.5, compared to Cali's 0.79).
It's nothing but pure sensationalism when people talk in absolute numbers.
Besides, one should look at how much money California takes in every year as a percentage of it's gross "domestic" product.
Maybe if they weren't spending so much on social programs and padding their votes, they might have something left from that amazingly large take for infrastructure.
Not that this is a problem unique to California or anything...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936417</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937853</id>
	<title>Re:Lack of redundancy</title>
	<author>univalue</author>
	<datestamp>1256992680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Redundancy.</p><p>In between D.C. and Baltimore we even have three parallel highways - I-95 and 295 and US-1.  One might be closed but the other two will still be usable.</p></div><p>Was the parallel highway system built for redundancy, where you have little to zero traffic on two of the three highways?  I would say no.  I bet you have heavy traffic on all three highways.  That is not redundancy.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Redundancy.In between D.C. and Baltimore we even have three parallel highways - I-95 and 295 and US-1 .
One might be closed but the other two will still be usable.Was the parallel highway system built for redundancy , where you have little to zero traffic on two of the three highways ?
I would say no .
I bet you have heavy traffic on all three highways .
That is not redundancy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Redundancy.In between D.C. and Baltimore we even have three parallel highways - I-95 and 295 and US-1.
One might be closed but the other two will still be usable.Was the parallel highway system built for redundancy, where you have little to zero traffic on two of the three highways?
I would say no.
I bet you have heavy traffic on all three highways.
That is not redundancy.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936171</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29937365</id>
	<title>Not a good article</title>
	<author>YesIAmAScript</author>
	<datestamp>1256986920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was hoping it wouldn't show here, after seeing it elsewhere.</p><p>This article is all supposition, and poor supposition than that. It presumes the fix was under-strength ('band-aid they installed was not strong enough to handle the total load') when the problem was most definitely not that the fix wasn't strong enough, but that it didn't stand up to wear-and-tear due to the motion of the bridge.</p><p>This is backed up by the failure info and the fact that CalTrans reports they saw the deleterious effects of wear in an inspection a week before the failure, but thought they had more time to fix it and so didn't repair it more quickly.</p><p>On another note, does anything really think there will ever be a new eyebar on this bridge? Traffic is slated to begin to be moved off the bridge next year, do you put a permanent fix on a bridge you're already in the process of replacing?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was hoping it would n't show here , after seeing it elsewhere.This article is all supposition , and poor supposition than that .
It presumes the fix was under-strength ( 'band-aid they installed was not strong enough to handle the total load ' ) when the problem was most definitely not that the fix was n't strong enough , but that it did n't stand up to wear-and-tear due to the motion of the bridge.This is backed up by the failure info and the fact that CalTrans reports they saw the deleterious effects of wear in an inspection a week before the failure , but thought they had more time to fix it and so did n't repair it more quickly.On another note , does anything really think there will ever be a new eyebar on this bridge ?
Traffic is slated to begin to be moved off the bridge next year , do you put a permanent fix on a bridge you 're already in the process of replacing ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was hoping it wouldn't show here, after seeing it elsewhere.This article is all supposition, and poor supposition than that.
It presumes the fix was under-strength ('band-aid they installed was not strong enough to handle the total load') when the problem was most definitely not that the fix wasn't strong enough, but that it didn't stand up to wear-and-tear due to the motion of the bridge.This is backed up by the failure info and the fact that CalTrans reports they saw the deleterious effects of wear in an inspection a week before the failure, but thought they had more time to fix it and so didn't repair it more quickly.On another note, does anything really think there will ever be a new eyebar on this bridge?
Traffic is slated to begin to be moved off the bridge next year, do you put a permanent fix on a bridge you're already in the process of replacing?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_31_1620218.29936231</id>
	<title>Bay bridge fix</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257019560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>According to the pics it seems evident to me that the cause of the crack is due to compression forces, if it was do to tension the crack would be on the top. The beam is able to rotate and shares both compression and tension forces depending on the load at the time.  By using their solution and tension rods is an adequate solution for tension but the reinforcement is needed in compression so tension rods will not work, you would need something to handle the same compression forces that the beam is supposed to handle and you would need to weld it in a manner that the weld is not under stress while experiencing compression. The fix came of because the rods may be adequate to handle the tension forces, but when under compression the complete rig can come flying off even if welded.  Tell them to email me I need work, not a PE but I do have a bit of experience and am able to work as a civil engineer. Tell them to send me an email at ctraveler\_22@yahoo.com not 22 just personal email that I hardly use due to spam.</htmltext>
<tokenext>According to the pics it seems evident to me that the cause of the crack is due to compression forces , if it was do to tension the crack would be on the top .
The beam is able to rotate and shares both compression and tension forces depending on the load at the time .
By using their solution and tension rods is an adequate solution for tension but the reinforcement is needed in compression so tension rods will not work , you would need something to handle the same compression forces that the beam is supposed to handle and you would need to weld it in a manner that the weld is not under stress while experiencing compression .
The fix came of because the rods may be adequate to handle the tension forces , but when under compression the complete rig can come flying off even if welded .
Tell them to email me I need work , not a PE but I do have a bit of experience and am able to work as a civil engineer .
Tell them to send me an email at ctraveler \ _22 @ yahoo.com not 22 just personal email that I hardly use due to spam .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>According to the pics it seems evident to me that the cause of the crack is due to compression forces, if it was do to tension the crack would be on the top.
The beam is able to rotate and shares both compression and tension forces depending on the load at the time.
By using their solution and tension rods is an adequate solution for tension but the reinforcement is needed in compression so tension rods will not work, you would need something to handle the same compression forces that the beam is supposed to handle and you would need to weld it in a manner that the weld is not under stress while experiencing compression.
The fix came of because the rods may be adequate to handle the tension forces, but when under compression the complete rig can come flying off even if welded.
Tell them to email me I need work, not a PE but I do have a bit of experience and am able to work as a civil engineer.
Tell them to send me an email at ctraveler\_22@yahoo.com not 22 just personal email that I hardly use due to spam.</sentencetext>
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