<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_10_30_1459253</id>
	<title>Will Google and Android Kill Standalone GPS?</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1256916000000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>xchg passes along a WiseAndroid piece on the <a href="http://www.wiseandroid.com/NewsItem.aspx?category=News&amp;path=October&amp;itemid=37">drop in value of Garmin and TomTom shares</a> following <a href="//mobile.slashdot.org/story/09/10/28/1524257/Android-20-SDK-Released-Google-Maps-Navigation-Announced">Google's announcement yesterday</a> of Google Maps Navigation. <i>"Shares of GPS device makers Garmin and TomTom plummeted... through a combination of their quarterly results and the launch of Google Maps Navigation. Following both low guidance for Garmin's next quarter as well as poor results from TomTom, shares for the two fell 16.4 percent and 20.8 percent respectively and remained low through the entire trading day after news of Google's free, turn-by-turn mapping service became public."</i> Today Lauren Weinstein posted a number of reasons <a href="http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000629.html">why standalone GPS won't go away</a> any time soon.</htmltext>
<tokenext>xchg passes along a WiseAndroid piece on the drop in value of Garmin and TomTom shares following Google 's announcement yesterday of Google Maps Navigation .
" Shares of GPS device makers Garmin and TomTom plummeted... through a combination of their quarterly results and the launch of Google Maps Navigation .
Following both low guidance for Garmin 's next quarter as well as poor results from TomTom , shares for the two fell 16.4 percent and 20.8 percent respectively and remained low through the entire trading day after news of Google 's free , turn-by-turn mapping service became public .
" Today Lauren Weinstein posted a number of reasons why standalone GPS wo n't go away any time soon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>xchg passes along a WiseAndroid piece on the drop in value of Garmin and TomTom shares following Google's announcement yesterday of Google Maps Navigation.
"Shares of GPS device makers Garmin and TomTom plummeted... through a combination of their quarterly results and the launch of Google Maps Navigation.
Following both low guidance for Garmin's next quarter as well as poor results from TomTom, shares for the two fell 16.4 percent and 20.8 percent respectively and remained low through the entire trading day after news of Google's free, turn-by-turn mapping service became public.
" Today Lauren Weinstein posted a number of reasons why standalone GPS won't go away any time soon.</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29931387</id>
	<title>Re:Not yet</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1256915160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are evil, you could kill some one driving while talking on the phone.</p><p>I do it too.</p><p>I am almost as likely to kill someone while not talking on the phone though, so maybe my example isn't the best.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are evil , you could kill some one driving while talking on the phone.I do it too.I am almost as likely to kill someone while not talking on the phone though , so maybe my example is n't the best .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are evil, you could kill some one driving while talking on the phone.I do it too.I am almost as likely to kill someone while not talking on the phone though, so maybe my example isn't the best.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924425</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924531</id>
	<title>May replace the base OS but not the devices.</title>
	<author>HockeyPuck</author>
	<datestamp>1256920620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe Garmin/TomTom will replace their current OS with Android.  However, I don't see any outdoorsman/athlete tossing their Garmin device for a GPS enabled cell phone.  Why?  Garmin devices are <b>purpose built</b>, they can be strapped to my wrist, my arm, they are waterproof, I can easily mount it to the handlebars of my mountain/road bike, they have heart rate monitors built in, I can attach a secondary transponder to my dogs when they are out herding so I know where they are.</p><p>I also love the fact that they can download maps from the <a href="http://natgeomaps.com/topo.html" title="natgeomaps.com">National Geographic Topographic Map Series</a> [natgeomaps.com].  Now there's nothing that would stop someone from writing a android app to interface with these maps.  But currently google maps doesn't help me out on the trail.</p><p>Garmin is a brand and people buy their products for the features, nobody buys Garmin b/c of the underlying OS.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe Garmin/TomTom will replace their current OS with Android .
However , I do n't see any outdoorsman/athlete tossing their Garmin device for a GPS enabled cell phone .
Why ? Garmin devices are purpose built , they can be strapped to my wrist , my arm , they are waterproof , I can easily mount it to the handlebars of my mountain/road bike , they have heart rate monitors built in , I can attach a secondary transponder to my dogs when they are out herding so I know where they are.I also love the fact that they can download maps from the National Geographic Topographic Map Series [ natgeomaps.com ] .
Now there 's nothing that would stop someone from writing a android app to interface with these maps .
But currently google maps does n't help me out on the trail.Garmin is a brand and people buy their products for the features , nobody buys Garmin b/c of the underlying OS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe Garmin/TomTom will replace their current OS with Android.
However, I don't see any outdoorsman/athlete tossing their Garmin device for a GPS enabled cell phone.
Why?  Garmin devices are purpose built, they can be strapped to my wrist, my arm, they are waterproof, I can easily mount it to the handlebars of my mountain/road bike, they have heart rate monitors built in, I can attach a secondary transponder to my dogs when they are out herding so I know where they are.I also love the fact that they can download maps from the National Geographic Topographic Map Series [natgeomaps.com].
Now there's nothing that would stop someone from writing a android app to interface with these maps.
But currently google maps doesn't help me out on the trail.Garmin is a brand and people buy their products for the features, nobody buys Garmin b/c of the underlying OS.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924957</id>
	<title>Standalone not going away but will shrink</title>
	<author>sjbe</author>
	<datestamp>1256922300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't think standalone GPS is going to go away but it is probably going to drop significantly in marketshare.  Between cars with built in GPS and phones with GPS options, the handheld units are going to go the way of the standalone PDA to some degree.  They're useful and right now because they outperform the phone based GPS systems but much like MP3 players they are going to get increasingly integrated.  There might me a small remaining market for standalone units but only so long as they can offer features not available on phones AND not in the car.  I have a Garmin Nuvi but I only use it now when I'm traveling because my primary car has a built in GPS and my phone can't do the job adequately.  If my phone could do the job I'd have little use for the Garmin and I've seen GPS systems for the iPhone that are approaching that level of performance.  I think it might take another 5-10 years for the standalone units to lose most of their marketshare but I don't see them offering anything that would justify a separate device in the long term.  Certainly not anywhere near the number of devices around right now anyway.  I can see a few inexpensive low end standalone units but nothing more without some significant technological innovations.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think standalone GPS is going to go away but it is probably going to drop significantly in marketshare .
Between cars with built in GPS and phones with GPS options , the handheld units are going to go the way of the standalone PDA to some degree .
They 're useful and right now because they outperform the phone based GPS systems but much like MP3 players they are going to get increasingly integrated .
There might me a small remaining market for standalone units but only so long as they can offer features not available on phones AND not in the car .
I have a Garmin Nuvi but I only use it now when I 'm traveling because my primary car has a built in GPS and my phone ca n't do the job adequately .
If my phone could do the job I 'd have little use for the Garmin and I 've seen GPS systems for the iPhone that are approaching that level of performance .
I think it might take another 5-10 years for the standalone units to lose most of their marketshare but I do n't see them offering anything that would justify a separate device in the long term .
Certainly not anywhere near the number of devices around right now anyway .
I can see a few inexpensive low end standalone units but nothing more without some significant technological innovations .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think standalone GPS is going to go away but it is probably going to drop significantly in marketshare.
Between cars with built in GPS and phones with GPS options, the handheld units are going to go the way of the standalone PDA to some degree.
They're useful and right now because they outperform the phone based GPS systems but much like MP3 players they are going to get increasingly integrated.
There might me a small remaining market for standalone units but only so long as they can offer features not available on phones AND not in the car.
I have a Garmin Nuvi but I only use it now when I'm traveling because my primary car has a built in GPS and my phone can't do the job adequately.
If my phone could do the job I'd have little use for the Garmin and I've seen GPS systems for the iPhone that are approaching that level of performance.
I think it might take another 5-10 years for the standalone units to lose most of their marketshare but I don't see them offering anything that would justify a separate device in the long term.
Certainly not anywhere near the number of devices around right now anyway.
I can see a few inexpensive low end standalone units but nothing more without some significant technological innovations.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29937399</id>
	<title>Re:Walmart, I mean Google Strikes Again!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256987280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not predatory if you can still make money, even giving it away for free.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not predatory if you can still make money , even giving it away for free .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not predatory if you can still make money, even giving it away for free.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924673</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29933345</id>
	<title>Personally - no</title>
	<author>Tomahawk</author>
	<datestamp>1256990940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Personally, I'll still be using (and updating) my TomTom.  While I may use the Android GPS software on occasion, it does require having an active internet connection.  Here, 3G connections are expensive - while you pay up front for 1GB a month, using something like this would use up that 1GB quite quickly, and the price per MB after that is high.</p><p>The search mechanism will be useful, though - I like that "Bring me to the museum where the King Tut exhibition is in San Fran".  But I'll probably do that at home (on WiFi) and still just set the destination into my TomTom...</p><p>T.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Personally , I 'll still be using ( and updating ) my TomTom .
While I may use the Android GPS software on occasion , it does require having an active internet connection .
Here , 3G connections are expensive - while you pay up front for 1GB a month , using something like this would use up that 1GB quite quickly , and the price per MB after that is high.The search mechanism will be useful , though - I like that " Bring me to the museum where the King Tut exhibition is in San Fran " .
But I 'll probably do that at home ( on WiFi ) and still just set the destination into my TomTom...T .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Personally, I'll still be using (and updating) my TomTom.
While I may use the Android GPS software on occasion, it does require having an active internet connection.
Here, 3G connections are expensive - while you pay up front for 1GB a month, using something like this would use up that 1GB quite quickly, and the price per MB after that is high.The search mechanism will be useful, though - I like that "Bring me to the museum where the King Tut exhibition is in San Fran".
But I'll probably do that at home (on WiFi) and still just set the destination into my TomTom...T.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29927355</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>Buelldozer</author>
	<datestamp>1256932980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes. I'll put my Garmin etrex Vista HCx GPS up against any cell phone based GPS for accuracy. The discrete device is more accurate, has FAR superior battery life, a better screen for reading outdoors (doesn't wash out), is waterproof, floats, is dustproof, is vibration proof, etc, etc.</p><p>So if you're an outdoors user, like I am, then yes, the standalone GPS unit IS superior in every meaningful way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes .
I 'll put my Garmin etrex Vista HCx GPS up against any cell phone based GPS for accuracy .
The discrete device is more accurate , has FAR superior battery life , a better screen for reading outdoors ( does n't wash out ) , is waterproof , floats , is dustproof , is vibration proof , etc , etc.So if you 're an outdoors user , like I am , then yes , the standalone GPS unit IS superior in every meaningful way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes.
I'll put my Garmin etrex Vista HCx GPS up against any cell phone based GPS for accuracy.
The discrete device is more accurate, has FAR superior battery life, a better screen for reading outdoors (doesn't wash out), is waterproof, floats, is dustproof, is vibration proof, etc, etc.So if you're an outdoors user, like I am, then yes, the standalone GPS unit IS superior in every meaningful way.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925217</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29931221</id>
	<title>What about GPS technology??</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256913360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am not sure if I am missing something here.</p><p>Does the new google device come with the actual GPS technology where it receives satellite signals to locate itself?? Or is it just based on mobile network "Cells" based on which it locates itself. If the new google device does not actually have a GPS HW unit, then there is no point in the whole debate. How will it ever work if you go to remote places like 'Yosemite' where there is no cell coverage at all??</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am not sure if I am missing something here.Does the new google device come with the actual GPS technology where it receives satellite signals to locate itself ? ?
Or is it just based on mobile network " Cells " based on which it locates itself .
If the new google device does not actually have a GPS HW unit , then there is no point in the whole debate .
How will it ever work if you go to remote places like 'Yosemite ' where there is no cell coverage at all ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am not sure if I am missing something here.Does the new google device come with the actual GPS technology where it receives satellite signals to locate itself??
Or is it just based on mobile network "Cells" based on which it locates itself.
If the new google device does not actually have a GPS HW unit, then there is no point in the whole debate.
How will it ever work if you go to remote places like 'Yosemite' where there is no cell coverage at all?
?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925037</id>
	<title>Re:Needs internet connection</title>
	<author>ColdWetDog</author>
	<datestamp>1256922540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Then the moderation is wrong.  Incorrect fact != troll. (Go read the FAQ again).  Additionally, the local cache can be fairly small and the area without adequate cell service rather large giving you a dead zone in the GPS application.  It is a big enough problem that the cell phone based GPS services won't replace the stand alone units.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Then the moderation is wrong .
Incorrect fact ! = troll .
( Go read the FAQ again ) .
Additionally , the local cache can be fairly small and the area without adequate cell service rather large giving you a dead zone in the GPS application .
It is a big enough problem that the cell phone based GPS services wo n't replace the stand alone units .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Then the moderation is wrong.
Incorrect fact != troll.
(Go read the FAQ again).
Additionally, the local cache can be fairly small and the area without adequate cell service rather large giving you a dead zone in the GPS application.
It is a big enough problem that the cell phone based GPS services won't replace the stand alone units.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924603</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926033</id>
	<title>Stupid day traders</title>
	<author>wiredlogic</author>
	<datestamp>1256926980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As many have pointed out there is no comparison between the flexibility offered by a hand held GPS and the limitations of using a GPS enabled cell phone. The significant threat for the big GPS players is the development of OEM in-car GPS by the auto industry. In 10-20 years this will be commonplace in all but the cheapest vehicles. If Garmin and Tom Tom don't work to have their expertise incorporated into those products they will be relegated to the handheld niche.</p><p>What is telling here is how the stupidity and short sightedness of the average day trader can cause gross changes in stock valuation for a company that hasn't done anything wrong and doesn't face a real threat from competition for the foreseeable future. This is the mentality that took our economy down. It's sad that no one in the press coming out about this has the clarity of thought to bring this issue to the forefront.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As many have pointed out there is no comparison between the flexibility offered by a hand held GPS and the limitations of using a GPS enabled cell phone .
The significant threat for the big GPS players is the development of OEM in-car GPS by the auto industry .
In 10-20 years this will be commonplace in all but the cheapest vehicles .
If Garmin and Tom Tom do n't work to have their expertise incorporated into those products they will be relegated to the handheld niche.What is telling here is how the stupidity and short sightedness of the average day trader can cause gross changes in stock valuation for a company that has n't done anything wrong and does n't face a real threat from competition for the foreseeable future .
This is the mentality that took our economy down .
It 's sad that no one in the press coming out about this has the clarity of thought to bring this issue to the forefront .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As many have pointed out there is no comparison between the flexibility offered by a hand held GPS and the limitations of using a GPS enabled cell phone.
The significant threat for the big GPS players is the development of OEM in-car GPS by the auto industry.
In 10-20 years this will be commonplace in all but the cheapest vehicles.
If Garmin and Tom Tom don't work to have their expertise incorporated into those products they will be relegated to the handheld niche.What is telling here is how the stupidity and short sightedness of the average day trader can cause gross changes in stock valuation for a company that hasn't done anything wrong and doesn't face a real threat from competition for the foreseeable future.
This is the mentality that took our economy down.
It's sad that no one in the press coming out about this has the clarity of thought to bring this issue to the forefront.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29929971</id>
	<title>Re:Not a chance</title>
	<author>farble1670</author>
	<datestamp>1256904480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>GPS companies can't survive serving a the niche market that is people that go camping every other weekend. well, they can survive in a much downgraded state from where they are now<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... which will in time cause them to get so far behind technologically that phones will actually be better GPS than their stand alone units.

and you don't need 3g to use google maps.</htmltext>
<tokenext>GPS companies ca n't survive serving a the niche market that is people that go camping every other weekend .
well , they can survive in a much downgraded state from where they are now ... which will in time cause them to get so far behind technologically that phones will actually be better GPS than their stand alone units .
and you do n't need 3g to use google maps .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>GPS companies can't survive serving a the niche market that is people that go camping every other weekend.
well, they can survive in a much downgraded state from where they are now ... which will in time cause them to get so far behind technologically that phones will actually be better GPS than their stand alone units.
and you don't need 3g to use google maps.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924563</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925261</id>
	<title>Re:Will replace my Garmin when ...</title>
	<author>Andy Dodd</author>
	<datestamp>1256923380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yup.  Best device for the job.</p><p>Despite having a full standalone install of TomTom on my phone, I still have a complete standalone vehicle navigation device (running iGO 8), AND I also have a Garmin Oregon for when I leave the road.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yup .
Best device for the job.Despite having a full standalone install of TomTom on my phone , I still have a complete standalone vehicle navigation device ( running iGO 8 ) , AND I also have a Garmin Oregon for when I leave the road .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yup.
Best device for the job.Despite having a full standalone install of TomTom on my phone, I still have a complete standalone vehicle navigation device (running iGO 8), AND I also have a Garmin Oregon for when I leave the road.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924455</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29927901</id>
	<title>Re:Walmart, I mean Google Strikes Again!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256935380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Perhaps instead of *praying* that you aren't in an industry that can have it's lunch eaten by a free alternative that has only survived so far due to a network of underhanded lock-ins (most of the cellphone industry and "busisness apps" included here), you should actively move toward an industry that actually provides value and isn't trivial to replace.</p><p>And no, I don't recall anyone ever accusing MS of flooding the market with GOOD, FREE apps that displaced entrenched lock-in abusing competition, my recollection is mostly of them overpromising and underdelivering software and using extensive lock-in and underhanded legal tactics to sabotage their competition.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps instead of * praying * that you are n't in an industry that can have it 's lunch eaten by a free alternative that has only survived so far due to a network of underhanded lock-ins ( most of the cellphone industry and " busisness apps " included here ) , you should actively move toward an industry that actually provides value and is n't trivial to replace.And no , I do n't recall anyone ever accusing MS of flooding the market with GOOD , FREE apps that displaced entrenched lock-in abusing competition , my recollection is mostly of them overpromising and underdelivering software and using extensive lock-in and underhanded legal tactics to sabotage their competition .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps instead of *praying* that you aren't in an industry that can have it's lunch eaten by a free alternative that has only survived so far due to a network of underhanded lock-ins (most of the cellphone industry and "busisness apps" included here), you should actively move toward an industry that actually provides value and isn't trivial to replace.And no, I don't recall anyone ever accusing MS of flooding the market with GOOD, FREE apps that displaced entrenched lock-in abusing competition, my recollection is mostly of them overpromising and underdelivering software and using extensive lock-in and underhanded legal tactics to sabotage their competition.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924673</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924393</id>
	<title>Hard to monetize a free service</title>
	<author>rxan</author>
	<datestamp>1256920200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>GPS is a free service. It's no wonder that it would become hard to make money off of it after awhile. At least Tom Tom and Garmin aren't crying for a bailout.</htmltext>
<tokenext>GPS is a free service .
It 's no wonder that it would become hard to make money off of it after awhile .
At least Tom Tom and Garmin are n't crying for a bailout .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>GPS is a free service.
It's no wonder that it would become hard to make money off of it after awhile.
At least Tom Tom and Garmin aren't crying for a bailout.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924315</id>
	<title>No</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256919900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some of us don't want or need cellphones.</p><p>They still make standalone mp3 players and pdas and cameras.</p><p>They still even make standalone cell phones.</p><p>For Android to kill GPS, they would have to offer it cheaper than a standalone and provide a working GPS function that did not require a cell phone service contract for it to work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some of us do n't want or need cellphones.They still make standalone mp3 players and pdas and cameras.They still even make standalone cell phones.For Android to kill GPS , they would have to offer it cheaper than a standalone and provide a working GPS function that did not require a cell phone service contract for it to work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some of us don't want or need cellphones.They still make standalone mp3 players and pdas and cameras.They still even make standalone cell phones.For Android to kill GPS, they would have to offer it cheaper than a standalone and provide a working GPS function that did not require a cell phone service contract for it to work.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29928867</id>
	<title>Why would I need ..</title>
	<author>BerryMadness</author>
	<datestamp>1256896980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>directions from my computer in my parents basement to the mini-fridge in my parents basement?</htmltext>
<tokenext>directions from my computer in my parents basement to the mini-fridge in my parents basement ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>directions from my computer in my parents basement to the mini-fridge in my parents basement?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924813</id>
	<title>Garmin not just for those eTrex units</title>
	<author>russotto</author>
	<datestamp>1256921880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Garmin makes all sorts of products besides standalone GPS.  They make specialized GPS units for use in various sports.  They make aviation GPS and marine GPS.  And they make modules to be incorporated into other products.  Most of those they've been making longer than they've been in the handheld business.  They're not going to die if the handheld and auto GPS markets are severely cut into by cellphones.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Garmin makes all sorts of products besides standalone GPS .
They make specialized GPS units for use in various sports .
They make aviation GPS and marine GPS .
And they make modules to be incorporated into other products .
Most of those they 've been making longer than they 've been in the handheld business .
They 're not going to die if the handheld and auto GPS markets are severely cut into by cellphones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Garmin makes all sorts of products besides standalone GPS.
They make specialized GPS units for use in various sports.
They make aviation GPS and marine GPS.
And they make modules to be incorporated into other products.
Most of those they've been making longer than they've been in the handheld business.
They're not going to die if the handheld and auto GPS markets are severely cut into by cellphones.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925951</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>QuantumRiff</author>
	<datestamp>1256926620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, they are Far, far more accurate, and they work where there are no Cell Phone towers.  They are also (usually) easy to extract the information from in standard forms and then use in your own applications (such as google earth pro) to make your own maps.  If you hike the Pacific Crest trail, you will have GPS for almost all of it (if you really wanted to lug batteries).  With a cell-phone, you are very lucky when you get coverage... Also, the older style, non-touchscreen GPS's can work for a week on a pair of AA Batteries.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , they are Far , far more accurate , and they work where there are no Cell Phone towers .
They are also ( usually ) easy to extract the information from in standard forms and then use in your own applications ( such as google earth pro ) to make your own maps .
If you hike the Pacific Crest trail , you will have GPS for almost all of it ( if you really wanted to lug batteries ) .
With a cell-phone , you are very lucky when you get coverage... Also , the older style , non-touchscreen GPS 's can work for a week on a pair of AA Batteries .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, they are Far, far more accurate, and they work where there are no Cell Phone towers.
They are also (usually) easy to extract the information from in standard forms and then use in your own applications (such as google earth pro) to make your own maps.
If you hike the Pacific Crest trail, you will have GPS for almost all of it (if you really wanted to lug batteries).
With a cell-phone, you are very lucky when you get coverage... Also, the older style, non-touchscreen GPS's can work for a week on a pair of AA Batteries.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925217</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924973</id>
	<title>the future</title>
	<author>fulldecent</author>
	<datestamp>1256922360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Imagine what will happen when the iphone will actually support bluetooth internet. garmins and other not-monthly-subscription devices can be left in the car an still have access to updates when you walk in the car.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Imagine what will happen when the iphone will actually support bluetooth internet .
garmins and other not-monthly-subscription devices can be left in the car an still have access to updates when you walk in the car .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Imagine what will happen when the iphone will actually support bluetooth internet.
garmins and other not-monthly-subscription devices can be left in the car an still have access to updates when you walk in the car.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29931435</id>
	<title>Re:Uh, I don't think so</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1256915700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Tell your friend she was retarded for changing the default setting, which doesn't allow international data roaming.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Tell your friend she was retarded for changing the default setting , which does n't allow international data roaming .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tell your friend she was retarded for changing the default setting, which doesn't allow international data roaming.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925885</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924607</id>
	<title>Not anytime soon.</title>
	<author>macwhizkid</author>
	<datestamp>1256920980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As someone who travels by car to go backpacking/skiing/kayaking on the weekends, my trusty Garmin Streetpilot 2610 will not be replaced by any kind of device requiring a data link for a long time to come. Why? Because when you're driving to a remote location that you've never been to before, your iPhone/Android device's signal is likely to crap out just when you need it most -- which is, the last couple of miles to your destination after getting off the interstate. Google Maps can't help you when you're 20 miles from the nearest cell tower. Maybe this would be feasible in European countries where cell coverage is approaching 100\%, but here in the US I often can't get decent cell coverage in my office, let alone the Adirondacks.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As someone who travels by car to go backpacking/skiing/kayaking on the weekends , my trusty Garmin Streetpilot 2610 will not be replaced by any kind of device requiring a data link for a long time to come .
Why ? Because when you 're driving to a remote location that you 've never been to before , your iPhone/Android device 's signal is likely to crap out just when you need it most -- which is , the last couple of miles to your destination after getting off the interstate .
Google Maps ca n't help you when you 're 20 miles from the nearest cell tower .
Maybe this would be feasible in European countries where cell coverage is approaching 100 \ % , but here in the US I often ca n't get decent cell coverage in my office , let alone the Adirondacks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As someone who travels by car to go backpacking/skiing/kayaking on the weekends, my trusty Garmin Streetpilot 2610 will not be replaced by any kind of device requiring a data link for a long time to come.
Why? Because when you're driving to a remote location that you've never been to before, your iPhone/Android device's signal is likely to crap out just when you need it most -- which is, the last couple of miles to your destination after getting off the interstate.
Google Maps can't help you when you're 20 miles from the nearest cell tower.
Maybe this would be feasible in European countries where cell coverage is approaching 100\%, but here in the US I often can't get decent cell coverage in my office, let alone the Adirondacks.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29927313</id>
	<title>Re:Garmin Routing is Crap, Googles is Great</title>
	<author>ckaminski</author>
	<datestamp>1256932680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>HAAA!!!  I knew it!  My GPS has some sort of scenic-route feature built in.  I was trying to get to Big-Trees State Park in California a couple weeks ago, and when I missed a turn, my Nuvi tried to take me down a 3 mile dirt track through some ranchers spread.  WTF?</htmltext>
<tokenext>HAAA ! ! !
I knew it !
My GPS has some sort of scenic-route feature built in .
I was trying to get to Big-Trees State Park in California a couple weeks ago , and when I missed a turn , my Nuvi tried to take me down a 3 mile dirt track through some ranchers spread .
WTF ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>HAAA!!!
I knew it!
My GPS has some sort of scenic-route feature built in.
I was trying to get to Big-Trees State Park in California a couple weeks ago, and when I missed a turn, my Nuvi tried to take me down a 3 mile dirt track through some ranchers spread.
WTF?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925219</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925647</id>
	<title>Re:Android GPS - works for US only</title>
	<author>tokul</author>
	<datestamp>1256925000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>BUT. If like me, you live in a small European country, where within the country there is practically no need for the GPS because you know most of the country by heart.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>You don't need GPS, if you don't go to other places. Plus TomTom's coverage of Latvia is worse than coverage of Estonia or Lithuania.
</p><p>Latvia is only a bit smaller than Lithuania. Lithuanians need navigation based on GPS, if they drive a lot around the country. Navigation helps, if they go to other major town and have to find some obscure location there.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>BUT .
If like me , you live in a small European country , where within the country there is practically no need for the GPS because you know most of the country by heart .
You do n't need GPS , if you do n't go to other places .
Plus TomTom 's coverage of Latvia is worse than coverage of Estonia or Lithuania .
Latvia is only a bit smaller than Lithuania .
Lithuanians need navigation based on GPS , if they drive a lot around the country .
Navigation helps , if they go to other major town and have to find some obscure location there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>BUT.
If like me, you live in a small European country, where within the country there is practically no need for the GPS because you know most of the country by heart.
You don't need GPS, if you don't go to other places.
Plus TomTom's coverage of Latvia is worse than coverage of Estonia or Lithuania.
Latvia is only a bit smaller than Lithuania.
Lithuanians need navigation based on GPS, if they drive a lot around the country.
Navigation helps, if they go to other major town and have to find some obscure location there.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924503</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924515</id>
	<title>Not until it stores the maps local on the device</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256920560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>All well and good it's free, and even if I could pre-plan a route and store that info on the deivce, it still creates big headaches when i can't access a cellular network data service and I want to search for something.</p><p>Also, my understanding is this is at best a basic GPS, turn by turn with limited lane identification, but no real-time route updates, automatic traffic reporting, etc.</p><p>For the casual user on their once or twice a year road trip to a popular destination, it's fine.  For people who spend their lives on the road, it's not good enough.  We'll see version 2...</p><p>Also, I'm SURE Garmin, TomTom, and the others all have some hard core patents in place ensuring noone's going to offer a competing system at better pricing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>All well and good it 's free , and even if I could pre-plan a route and store that info on the deivce , it still creates big headaches when i ca n't access a cellular network data service and I want to search for something.Also , my understanding is this is at best a basic GPS , turn by turn with limited lane identification , but no real-time route updates , automatic traffic reporting , etc.For the casual user on their once or twice a year road trip to a popular destination , it 's fine .
For people who spend their lives on the road , it 's not good enough .
We 'll see version 2...Also , I 'm SURE Garmin , TomTom , and the others all have some hard core patents in place ensuring noone 's going to offer a competing system at better pricing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All well and good it's free, and even if I could pre-plan a route and store that info on the deivce, it still creates big headaches when i can't access a cellular network data service and I want to search for something.Also, my understanding is this is at best a basic GPS, turn by turn with limited lane identification, but no real-time route updates, automatic traffic reporting, etc.For the casual user on their once or twice a year road trip to a popular destination, it's fine.
For people who spend their lives on the road, it's not good enough.
We'll see version 2...Also, I'm SURE Garmin, TomTom, and the others all have some hard core patents in place ensuring noone's going to offer a competing system at better pricing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29927005</id>
	<title>After using a T-Mobile G1 to Geocache...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256931240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know it will eventually. I use the T-Mobile G1 to download new caches into Geobeagle via pocket query or web access. I can log the caches as I find them by SMS or web browser.</p><p>Sometimes I want to do a quick find but my Garmins are at home. I can do it because the G1 is in my pocket.</p><p>When I am planning a Geocaching day I load up my eTrex Legend and GPS 76cx with the Macbook at home. The GPSr in the 76cx is much better under a canopy than the G1 but the eTrex is not.</p><p>The G1 fails when I am out in the wilderness. The GPS loads and programs like MyTracks, Radar, and Geobeagle work but the Google background map does not fill in. 3G is not needed but without Edge the experience is like a first generation eTrex without a basemap.</p><p>If I had the same network map now as I did when I had AMPS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced\_Mobile\_Phone\_System) under under AT&amp;T it would be a clear winner. I was 25 miles out into a state forest and received a call where now I get nothing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know it will eventually .
I use the T-Mobile G1 to download new caches into Geobeagle via pocket query or web access .
I can log the caches as I find them by SMS or web browser.Sometimes I want to do a quick find but my Garmins are at home .
I can do it because the G1 is in my pocket.When I am planning a Geocaching day I load up my eTrex Legend and GPS 76cx with the Macbook at home .
The GPSr in the 76cx is much better under a canopy than the G1 but the eTrex is not.The G1 fails when I am out in the wilderness .
The GPS loads and programs like MyTracks , Radar , and Geobeagle work but the Google background map does not fill in .
3G is not needed but without Edge the experience is like a first generation eTrex without a basemap.If I had the same network map now as I did when I had AMPS ( http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced \ _Mobile \ _Phone \ _System ) under under AT&amp;T it would be a clear winner .
I was 25 miles out into a state forest and received a call where now I get nothing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know it will eventually.
I use the T-Mobile G1 to download new caches into Geobeagle via pocket query or web access.
I can log the caches as I find them by SMS or web browser.Sometimes I want to do a quick find but my Garmins are at home.
I can do it because the G1 is in my pocket.When I am planning a Geocaching day I load up my eTrex Legend and GPS 76cx with the Macbook at home.
The GPSr in the 76cx is much better under a canopy than the G1 but the eTrex is not.The G1 fails when I am out in the wilderness.
The GPS loads and programs like MyTracks, Radar, and Geobeagle work but the Google background map does not fill in.
3G is not needed but without Edge the experience is like a first generation eTrex without a basemap.If I had the same network map now as I did when I had AMPS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced\_Mobile\_Phone\_System) under under AT&amp;T it would be a clear winner.
I was 25 miles out into a state forest and received a call where now I get nothing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29929785</id>
	<title>Some of still drive and talk</title>
	<author>AmericanInKiev</author>
	<datestamp>1256903160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The most Annoying flaw in my cellphone GPS, (with which I've driven across the country) Is when I'm late to an appointment, I need to phone ahead, but can't because I'd lose navigation.</p><p>That said, real time traffic, and weather related road outages, along with reactive routing are necessary features for a congested metropolis.</p><p>The unconnected GPS is dead.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The most Annoying flaw in my cellphone GPS , ( with which I 've driven across the country ) Is when I 'm late to an appointment , I need to phone ahead , but ca n't because I 'd lose navigation.That said , real time traffic , and weather related road outages , along with reactive routing are necessary features for a congested metropolis.The unconnected GPS is dead .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The most Annoying flaw in my cellphone GPS, (with which I've driven across the country) Is when I'm late to an appointment, I need to phone ahead, but can't because I'd lose navigation.That said, real time traffic, and weather related road outages, along with reactive routing are necessary features for a congested metropolis.The unconnected GPS is dead.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29929699</id>
	<title>Re:No.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256902500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Nokia 5800 XpressMusic phone stores as much of the maps as it can fit in the memory space you have allocated to it.</p><p>Tiny nitpick, though. Assisted GPS is not an alternative to GPS, because you imply it is somehow inferior. It is, in fact, superior. It uses the cell phone network to get a better GPS bootstrap. The reason you might think that assisted GPS is inferior is because of the devices it has been put on. Those devices would be even \_worse\_ without assisted gps.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Nokia 5800 XpressMusic phone stores as much of the maps as it can fit in the memory space you have allocated to it.Tiny nitpick , though .
Assisted GPS is not an alternative to GPS , because you imply it is somehow inferior .
It is , in fact , superior .
It uses the cell phone network to get a better GPS bootstrap .
The reason you might think that assisted GPS is inferior is because of the devices it has been put on .
Those devices would be even \ _worse \ _ without assisted gps .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Nokia 5800 XpressMusic phone stores as much of the maps as it can fit in the memory space you have allocated to it.Tiny nitpick, though.
Assisted GPS is not an alternative to GPS, because you imply it is somehow inferior.
It is, in fact, superior.
It uses the cell phone network to get a better GPS bootstrap.
The reason you might think that assisted GPS is inferior is because of the devices it has been put on.
Those devices would be even \_worse\_ without assisted gps.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924935</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926817</id>
	<title>Re:Computer</title>
	<author>Lord Ender</author>
	<datestamp>1256930340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>TomToms allow you to use "community" voice packs. You can set your GPS to sound like GLaDOS, Slingblade, or John Cleese. There may be voice packs which sound like the Star Trek computer, and if not, you just need to find the right woman and chain her in your basement until she reads the list of phrases into a microphone. Easy peasy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>TomToms allow you to use " community " voice packs .
You can set your GPS to sound like GLaDOS , Slingblade , or John Cleese .
There may be voice packs which sound like the Star Trek computer , and if not , you just need to find the right woman and chain her in your basement until she reads the list of phrases into a microphone .
Easy peasy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>TomToms allow you to use "community" voice packs.
You can set your GPS to sound like GLaDOS, Slingblade, or John Cleese.
There may be voice packs which sound like the Star Trek computer, and if not, you just need to find the right woman and chain her in your basement until she reads the list of phrases into a microphone.
Easy peasy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924387</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29928147</id>
	<title>Street View will be killer</title>
	<author>whoop</author>
	<datestamp>1256893380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Being able to show a Street View picture of where you are going to turn will be killer for a major portion of the public, women.  I lost count of how many times I've tried to give the wife directions and receive that blank stare back.  Even getting her a GPS hasn't built any confidence in her ability to move around a small area.  She knows her set of stores she goes to and that is it.  Show her to turn at the McDonald's and such and she could be better able to navigate.</p><p>Lord, I hope so.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Being able to show a Street View picture of where you are going to turn will be killer for a major portion of the public , women .
I lost count of how many times I 've tried to give the wife directions and receive that blank stare back .
Even getting her a GPS has n't built any confidence in her ability to move around a small area .
She knows her set of stores she goes to and that is it .
Show her to turn at the McDonald 's and such and she could be better able to navigate.Lord , I hope so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Being able to show a Street View picture of where you are going to turn will be killer for a major portion of the public, women.
I lost count of how many times I've tried to give the wife directions and receive that blank stare back.
Even getting her a GPS hasn't built any confidence in her ability to move around a small area.
She knows her set of stores she goes to and that is it.
Show her to turn at the McDonald's and such and she could be better able to navigate.Lord, I hope so.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29934301</id>
	<title>How Google gets money?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257002040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Could anybody tell me how Google can survive with their business model? I've never pressed any of the "Ads by Google" ads... And I always ignore all ads in Youtube videos...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Could anybody tell me how Google can survive with their business model ?
I 've never pressed any of the " Ads by Google " ads... And I always ignore all ads in Youtube videos.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Could anybody tell me how Google can survive with their business model?
I've never pressed any of the "Ads by Google" ads... And I always ignore all ads in Youtube videos...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29930019</id>
	<title>Re:Missing Factor...</title>
	<author>Dun Malg</author>
	<datestamp>1256904720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Verizon isn't the only carrier with an Android 2.0 OS phone, they are just the first.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Verizon is n't the only carrier with an Android 2.0 OS phone , they are just the first .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Verizon isn't the only carrier with an Android 2.0 OS phone, they are just the first.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924445</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924771</id>
	<title>Re:Android GPS - works for US only</title>
	<author>AndrewNeo</author>
	<datestamp>1256921700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why does it work for the US only? Google Maps are most certainly available in other countries, and just because you have no need for a GPS doesn't discount it. TomTom is based out of Europe, for one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why does it work for the US only ?
Google Maps are most certainly available in other countries , and just because you have no need for a GPS does n't discount it .
TomTom is based out of Europe , for one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why does it work for the US only?
Google Maps are most certainly available in other countries, and just because you have no need for a GPS doesn't discount it.
TomTom is based out of Europe, for one.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924503</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29927495</id>
	<title>Of course I didn't RTFA.....</title>
	<author>schlick</author>
	<datestamp>1256933580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>..... but I don't see it mentioned in the comments.  Is there mention of in-car navigation systems?  As these become more prevalent these will cut into Garmin's sales too.  You really don't need a handheld gps to get around in a city.  Maps give plenty of info and with cell based location it is probably more reliable than GPS in a lot of urban canyons.   Once you own a handheld outdoor recreation GPS though how often will you upgrade it?  I'm still using my Garmin GPS V and that will continue to be fine for me until it breaks.   I wouldn't think people upgrade their GPSs as often as they upgrade/replace their cell phones and Garmin shouldn't expect them to.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>..... but I do n't see it mentioned in the comments .
Is there mention of in-car navigation systems ?
As these become more prevalent these will cut into Garmin 's sales too .
You really do n't need a handheld gps to get around in a city .
Maps give plenty of info and with cell based location it is probably more reliable than GPS in a lot of urban canyons .
Once you own a handheld outdoor recreation GPS though how often will you upgrade it ?
I 'm still using my Garmin GPS V and that will continue to be fine for me until it breaks .
I would n't think people upgrade their GPSs as often as they upgrade/replace their cell phones and Garmin should n't expect them to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>..... but I don't see it mentioned in the comments.
Is there mention of in-car navigation systems?
As these become more prevalent these will cut into Garmin's sales too.
You really don't need a handheld gps to get around in a city.
Maps give plenty of info and with cell based location it is probably more reliable than GPS in a lot of urban canyons.
Once you own a handheld outdoor recreation GPS though how often will you upgrade it?
I'm still using my Garmin GPS V and that will continue to be fine for me until it breaks.
I wouldn't think people upgrade their GPSs as often as they upgrade/replace their cell phones and Garmin shouldn't expect them to.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924639</id>
	<title>Why do they keep doing this?</title>
	<author>areusche</author>
	<datestamp>1256921040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I love how ignorant tech writers love calling something the "killer". Kind of like how PDAs are dead and Palm back in its day started coming up with new acronyms to compensate for this death. PDAs never died, they changed into smartphones. Kind of like how GPS units won't die, they'll roll into converged units. Smartphones with standalone GPS units that use AGPS as an assist will start popping up more and more. Hopefully the obnoxious paid services like VZnav will disappear with time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I love how ignorant tech writers love calling something the " killer " .
Kind of like how PDAs are dead and Palm back in its day started coming up with new acronyms to compensate for this death .
PDAs never died , they changed into smartphones .
Kind of like how GPS units wo n't die , they 'll roll into converged units .
Smartphones with standalone GPS units that use AGPS as an assist will start popping up more and more .
Hopefully the obnoxious paid services like VZnav will disappear with time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I love how ignorant tech writers love calling something the "killer".
Kind of like how PDAs are dead and Palm back in its day started coming up with new acronyms to compensate for this death.
PDAs never died, they changed into smartphones.
Kind of like how GPS units won't die, they'll roll into converged units.
Smartphones with standalone GPS units that use AGPS as an assist will start popping up more and more.
Hopefully the obnoxious paid services like VZnav will disappear with time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29928733</id>
	<title>Re:Walmart, I mean Google Strikes Again!</title>
	<author>brkello</author>
	<datestamp>1256896320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>*rolls eyes* Let me explain the difference.  Walmart rolls in to town.  They shop the local mom and pop shops and reduce their prices as to drive those shops out of business.  They can do this because they sell so many other things that they can make a profit on.  Once the other shops shut down, they are free charge whatever they want.  This has been their model.<br> <br>When Google releases something for free, it stays free.  They don't destroy a market and then start charging for it once they are the only ones left.  And I don't even think they are actually destroying the competition.<br> <br>So no, Google is not Walmart.  Your comparison is stupid and incorrect.</htmltext>
<tokenext>* rolls eyes * Let me explain the difference .
Walmart rolls in to town .
They shop the local mom and pop shops and reduce their prices as to drive those shops out of business .
They can do this because they sell so many other things that they can make a profit on .
Once the other shops shut down , they are free charge whatever they want .
This has been their model .
When Google releases something for free , it stays free .
They do n't destroy a market and then start charging for it once they are the only ones left .
And I do n't even think they are actually destroying the competition .
So no , Google is not Walmart .
Your comparison is stupid and incorrect .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>*rolls eyes* Let me explain the difference.
Walmart rolls in to town.
They shop the local mom and pop shops and reduce their prices as to drive those shops out of business.
They can do this because they sell so many other things that they can make a profit on.
Once the other shops shut down, they are free charge whatever they want.
This has been their model.
When Google releases something for free, it stays free.
They don't destroy a market and then start charging for it once they are the only ones left.
And I don't even think they are actually destroying the competition.
So no, Google is not Walmart.
Your comparison is stupid and incorrect.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924673</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925061</id>
	<title>Debunking</title>
	<author>Gudeldar</author>
	<datestamp>1256922660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why does this even need to be debunked?

The only threat poses is to smartphone navigation apps, not standalone GPS units.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why does this even need to be debunked ?
The only threat poses is to smartphone navigation apps , not standalone GPS units .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why does this even need to be debunked?
The only threat poses is to smartphone navigation apps, not standalone GPS units.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926827</id>
	<title>Re:Walmart, I mean Google Strikes Again!</title>
	<author>DerekLyons</author>
	<datestamp>1256930400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>In the same way that Walmart comes into a town and destroys local businesses, Google can enter into an industry/sector and destroy most of the competition overnight by giving an application away for free. Who is going to pay $100 for a Maps Application now (or more for a hardware device) when they can just download one for free.</p></div></blockquote><p>Yep, and just like Wal Mart, the free/cheap stuff is shit compared to the McCoy.  On the geocaching forums we're already seeing people having problems with dropping their phone in the mud (which a real GPS shrugs off), of inaccuracy traceable to having a non optimized antenna, with folks having their [cell phone] batteries run out in mid day in the middle of nowhere (most cachers carry at least one set of the bog standard AA batteries virtually all GPSs use)...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the same way that Walmart comes into a town and destroys local businesses , Google can enter into an industry/sector and destroy most of the competition overnight by giving an application away for free .
Who is going to pay $ 100 for a Maps Application now ( or more for a hardware device ) when they can just download one for free.Yep , and just like Wal Mart , the free/cheap stuff is shit compared to the McCoy .
On the geocaching forums we 're already seeing people having problems with dropping their phone in the mud ( which a real GPS shrugs off ) , of inaccuracy traceable to having a non optimized antenna , with folks having their [ cell phone ] batteries run out in mid day in the middle of nowhere ( most cachers carry at least one set of the bog standard AA batteries virtually all GPSs use ) .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the same way that Walmart comes into a town and destroys local businesses, Google can enter into an industry/sector and destroy most of the competition overnight by giving an application away for free.
Who is going to pay $100 for a Maps Application now (or more for a hardware device) when they can just download one for free.Yep, and just like Wal Mart, the free/cheap stuff is shit compared to the McCoy.
On the geocaching forums we're already seeing people having problems with dropping their phone in the mud (which a real GPS shrugs off), of inaccuracy traceable to having a non optimized antenna, with folks having their [cell phone] batteries run out in mid day in the middle of nowhere (most cachers carry at least one set of the bog standard AA batteries virtually all GPSs use)...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924673</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924375</id>
	<title>Needs internet connection</title>
	<author>sarahbau</author>
	<datestamp>1256920080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It sounds like the maps will still only be hosted by Google, rather than stored on the device as with standalone GPSs. As long as that's the case, there will probably still be standalone units.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It sounds like the maps will still only be hosted by Google , rather than stored on the device as with standalone GPSs .
As long as that 's the case , there will probably still be standalone units .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It sounds like the maps will still only be hosted by Google, rather than stored on the device as with standalone GPSs.
As long as that's the case, there will probably still be standalone units.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925209</id>
	<title>Will Google and Android Kill Standalone GPS?</title>
	<author>itsdapead</author>
	<datestamp>1256923200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Probably not.
</p><p>However, Google might concievably kill the market for GPS software for smartphones - which is something TomTom and others have invested in recently.
</p><p>I'm not a heavy GPS user - if I was (and/or if I planned to use GPS overseas), I'd go for a standalone unit, for all the reasons discussed here by other posters. However, I got a HTC Hero phone, and it seemed a bit of a waste to have a GPS-capable phone with no turn-by-turn software so I bought Copilot - not perfect, but (IMHO) great value for money (probably better value than TomTom for Android/iPhone, but that's another issue).
</p><p>I can see that Google's move could make a huge hole in such sales - but only if they add a cache facility to pre-load the maps for your journey while you have a good internet connection.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Probably not .
However , Google might concievably kill the market for GPS software for smartphones - which is something TomTom and others have invested in recently .
I 'm not a heavy GPS user - if I was ( and/or if I planned to use GPS overseas ) , I 'd go for a standalone unit , for all the reasons discussed here by other posters .
However , I got a HTC Hero phone , and it seemed a bit of a waste to have a GPS-capable phone with no turn-by-turn software so I bought Copilot - not perfect , but ( IMHO ) great value for money ( probably better value than TomTom for Android/iPhone , but that 's another issue ) .
I can see that Google 's move could make a huge hole in such sales - but only if they add a cache facility to pre-load the maps for your journey while you have a good internet connection .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Probably not.
However, Google might concievably kill the market for GPS software for smartphones - which is something TomTom and others have invested in recently.
I'm not a heavy GPS user - if I was (and/or if I planned to use GPS overseas), I'd go for a standalone unit, for all the reasons discussed here by other posters.
However, I got a HTC Hero phone, and it seemed a bit of a waste to have a GPS-capable phone with no turn-by-turn software so I bought Copilot - not perfect, but (IMHO) great value for money (probably better value than TomTom for Android/iPhone, but that's another issue).
I can see that Google's move could make a huge hole in such sales - but only if they add a cache facility to pre-load the maps for your journey while you have a good internet connection.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926653</id>
	<title>This could work.</title>
	<author>Hybridan</author>
	<datestamp>1256929680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>  So far, I have not read a single limitation that cannot be solved with a few years and changes which improve the current tech. For example, eventually I believe that the battery life problem will be solved one way or another.</p><p>Can anybody think of really good reasons besides technical limitations, as great as they are, and many are listed above, that will keep stand alone devices around?</p><p>Also, after reading this I cannot help of think about Ghost in the Shell, and the Standalone Complex.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So far , I have not read a single limitation that can not be solved with a few years and changes which improve the current tech .
For example , eventually I believe that the battery life problem will be solved one way or another.Can anybody think of really good reasons besides technical limitations , as great as they are , and many are listed above , that will keep stand alone devices around ? Also , after reading this I can not help of think about Ghost in the Shell , and the Standalone Complex .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>  So far, I have not read a single limitation that cannot be solved with a few years and changes which improve the current tech.
For example, eventually I believe that the battery life problem will be solved one way or another.Can anybody think of really good reasons besides technical limitations, as great as they are, and many are listed above, that will keep stand alone devices around?Also, after reading this I cannot help of think about Ghost in the Shell, and the Standalone Complex.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924455</id>
	<title>Will replace my Garmin when ...</title>
	<author>Lemming Mark</author>
	<datestamp>1256920380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'll personally replace my outdoors-oriented Garmin when I can get a bicycle-mountable, rucksack-clippable, fully waterproof (i.e. submerge for a significant length of time, not just splashproof), robust and accurate GPS device.  That doesn't cost more than I paid for the Garmin in the first place.  And can run on AA batteries for long periods of time, so I can swap batteries when they run down.</p><p>In fact, I probably still won't replace my Garmin even if they match those features.  If I'm trekking around outdoors with the thing, it's nice to know that losing or smashing it won't result in the loss of my phone, address book, PDA, MP3 and video player, camera<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...  I like the idea of having everything available in one device but for some applications it's nicer not to have all my eggs in one valuable (in monetary, information and functionality terms) device.</p><p>For stuff like car satnav devices I can see GPS-enabled phones making more of a dent, since the top of a car dashboard is a much friendlier environment for a phone.  Moreover it's somewhere you'd probably want a phone anyhow, so you can use it handsfree, listen to music, etc.  The really slick car satnav designs are integrated into the dash, though.  Given we've already seen ipod docks built into cars, maybe in the future we're looking at a much more full-featured dock that'll connect the phone to audio, dash display, GPS antenna, etc.  On the other hand, given computers are cheap and get cheaper, maybe that'll be unnecessary as the car will have bucketloads of integrated computers already.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll personally replace my outdoors-oriented Garmin when I can get a bicycle-mountable , rucksack-clippable , fully waterproof ( i.e .
submerge for a significant length of time , not just splashproof ) , robust and accurate GPS device .
That does n't cost more than I paid for the Garmin in the first place .
And can run on AA batteries for long periods of time , so I can swap batteries when they run down.In fact , I probably still wo n't replace my Garmin even if they match those features .
If I 'm trekking around outdoors with the thing , it 's nice to know that losing or smashing it wo n't result in the loss of my phone , address book , PDA , MP3 and video player , camera ... I like the idea of having everything available in one device but for some applications it 's nicer not to have all my eggs in one valuable ( in monetary , information and functionality terms ) device.For stuff like car satnav devices I can see GPS-enabled phones making more of a dent , since the top of a car dashboard is a much friendlier environment for a phone .
Moreover it 's somewhere you 'd probably want a phone anyhow , so you can use it handsfree , listen to music , etc .
The really slick car satnav designs are integrated into the dash , though .
Given we 've already seen ipod docks built into cars , maybe in the future we 're looking at a much more full-featured dock that 'll connect the phone to audio , dash display , GPS antenna , etc .
On the other hand , given computers are cheap and get cheaper , maybe that 'll be unnecessary as the car will have bucketloads of integrated computers already .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll personally replace my outdoors-oriented Garmin when I can get a bicycle-mountable, rucksack-clippable, fully waterproof (i.e.
submerge for a significant length of time, not just splashproof), robust and accurate GPS device.
That doesn't cost more than I paid for the Garmin in the first place.
And can run on AA batteries for long periods of time, so I can swap batteries when they run down.In fact, I probably still won't replace my Garmin even if they match those features.
If I'm trekking around outdoors with the thing, it's nice to know that losing or smashing it won't result in the loss of my phone, address book, PDA, MP3 and video player, camera ...  I like the idea of having everything available in one device but for some applications it's nicer not to have all my eggs in one valuable (in monetary, information and functionality terms) device.For stuff like car satnav devices I can see GPS-enabled phones making more of a dent, since the top of a car dashboard is a much friendlier environment for a phone.
Moreover it's somewhere you'd probably want a phone anyhow, so you can use it handsfree, listen to music, etc.
The really slick car satnav designs are integrated into the dash, though.
Given we've already seen ipod docks built into cars, maybe in the future we're looking at a much more full-featured dock that'll connect the phone to audio, dash display, GPS antenna, etc.
On the other hand, given computers are cheap and get cheaper, maybe that'll be unnecessary as the car will have bucketloads of integrated computers already.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924441</id>
	<title>No.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256920320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1) It doesn't work EVERYWHERE. I'm not talking about everywhere with a wireless signal. I'm talking about EVERYWHERE.<br>2) I'm not going to pay a monthly fee to use something. I paid Microsoft $X for Streets &amp; Trips. It's one of the rare programs that I will spend the time to virtualize. It's gotten me east coast to west coast with only 1 problem, and that was user error (Grand Canyon Park is NOT the same as "Grand Canyon", the geographic center. Though it was an interesting drive into nothing).<br>3) AT&amp;T is choking hard with a ton of people browsing the web. Imagine if everyone on the road suddenly was streaming a few K/s. It would bring the network to its knees. I somehow doubt that AT&amp;T is going to pull through and upgrade.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 ) It does n't work EVERYWHERE .
I 'm not talking about everywhere with a wireless signal .
I 'm talking about EVERYWHERE.2 ) I 'm not going to pay a monthly fee to use something .
I paid Microsoft $ X for Streets &amp; Trips .
It 's one of the rare programs that I will spend the time to virtualize .
It 's gotten me east coast to west coast with only 1 problem , and that was user error ( Grand Canyon Park is NOT the same as " Grand Canyon " , the geographic center .
Though it was an interesting drive into nothing ) .3 ) AT&amp;T is choking hard with a ton of people browsing the web .
Imagine if everyone on the road suddenly was streaming a few K/s .
It would bring the network to its knees .
I somehow doubt that AT&amp;T is going to pull through and upgrade .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1) It doesn't work EVERYWHERE.
I'm not talking about everywhere with a wireless signal.
I'm talking about EVERYWHERE.2) I'm not going to pay a monthly fee to use something.
I paid Microsoft $X for Streets &amp; Trips.
It's one of the rare programs that I will spend the time to virtualize.
It's gotten me east coast to west coast with only 1 problem, and that was user error (Grand Canyon Park is NOT the same as "Grand Canyon", the geographic center.
Though it was an interesting drive into nothing).3) AT&amp;T is choking hard with a ton of people browsing the web.
Imagine if everyone on the road suddenly was streaming a few K/s.
It would bring the network to its knees.
I somehow doubt that AT&amp;T is going to pull through and upgrade.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924703</id>
	<title>Off-road usage</title>
	<author>puddles</author>
	<datestamp>1256921340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We tend to go to places where cellphone reception is next to impossible (Death Valley, Moab, out kayaking on on open waters, etc.)  You really need standalone GPS with proper maps for this sort of activities.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We tend to go to places where cellphone reception is next to impossible ( Death Valley , Moab , out kayaking on on open waters , etc .
) You really need standalone GPS with proper maps for this sort of activities .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We tend to go to places where cellphone reception is next to impossible (Death Valley, Moab, out kayaking on on open waters, etc.
)  You really need standalone GPS with proper maps for this sort of activities.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926731</id>
	<title>Re:Walmart, I mean Google Strikes Again!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256929980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Google isn't abusing a monopoly to enter other markets.  Maybe Google is using it's reputation - but that's perfectly fine.  It's not as though if you search (or advertise) on Yahoo! you can't use Android's turn-by-turn.  I agree it's scary to complete with Google, but comparing it to what MS has done is misguided.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Google is n't abusing a monopoly to enter other markets .
Maybe Google is using it 's reputation - but that 's perfectly fine .
It 's not as though if you search ( or advertise ) on Yahoo !
you ca n't use Android 's turn-by-turn .
I agree it 's scary to complete with Google , but comparing it to what MS has done is misguided .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Google isn't abusing a monopoly to enter other markets.
Maybe Google is using it's reputation - but that's perfectly fine.
It's not as though if you search (or advertise) on Yahoo!
you can't use Android's turn-by-turn.
I agree it's scary to complete with Google, but comparing it to what MS has done is misguided.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924673</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29931087</id>
	<title>Re:Not a chance</title>
	<author>sootman</author>
	<datestamp>1256911800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Agreed. Better question: will Google and Android (and BlackBerry and Pre and, oh yeah, iPhone) kill 95\% of the current demand for standalone GPSs, reducing it to a niche market (with possibly just one supplier) for hikers, bikers, boaters, pilots, and people who drive for a living? Yes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed .
Better question : will Google and Android ( and BlackBerry and Pre and , oh yeah , iPhone ) kill 95 \ % of the current demand for standalone GPSs , reducing it to a niche market ( with possibly just one supplier ) for hikers , bikers , boaters , pilots , and people who drive for a living ?
Yes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed.
Better question: will Google and Android (and BlackBerry and Pre and, oh yeah, iPhone) kill 95\% of the current demand for standalone GPSs, reducing it to a niche market (with possibly just one supplier) for hikers, bikers, boaters, pilots, and people who drive for a living?
Yes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924563</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925219</id>
	<title>Garmin Routing is Crap, Googles is Great</title>
	<author>rolfwind</author>
	<datestamp>1256923260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I utterly and completely agree with you - particularly in rural areas, GPS needing 3G or Edge connection isn't going to cut it.</p><p>But, this will impact sales.  I don't know about TomTom, but my experience with Garmin is that it's routing is shit.  I have several units and there are a ton of spots where it will consistently take you via a route that takes much longer, it wants to exit from the fast highway usually one exit too early in order to go the roads beridden with stop signs and lights, and in some cases, it would take nonsensical detours from an otherwise straight road as if Garmin wanted you in a sight-seeing tour of the countryside, doubling not only time of a short trip, but the distance.  Garmin has some seriously fucked up routing that even a non-native with just a map would ever pick, and I ran into this in Pennsylvania, Kentucky, Washington State, and even in Europe.  It's not a localized issue.  I love my Garmins in areas I don't know, but that is about it.</p><p>OTOH, Google Maps has some of the best routing I have seen, consistently, and in my native areas which I know well, it takes the routes I usually would as well.  So, with the limitations in mind, it's perfect for urban/suburban dwellers.  I only wish Google would make a standale GPS unit with no internet connection required and cheap updates - I would snap it up in a heartbeat.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I utterly and completely agree with you - particularly in rural areas , GPS needing 3G or Edge connection is n't going to cut it.But , this will impact sales .
I do n't know about TomTom , but my experience with Garmin is that it 's routing is shit .
I have several units and there are a ton of spots where it will consistently take you via a route that takes much longer , it wants to exit from the fast highway usually one exit too early in order to go the roads beridden with stop signs and lights , and in some cases , it would take nonsensical detours from an otherwise straight road as if Garmin wanted you in a sight-seeing tour of the countryside , doubling not only time of a short trip , but the distance .
Garmin has some seriously fucked up routing that even a non-native with just a map would ever pick , and I ran into this in Pennsylvania , Kentucky , Washington State , and even in Europe .
It 's not a localized issue .
I love my Garmins in areas I do n't know , but that is about it.OTOH , Google Maps has some of the best routing I have seen , consistently , and in my native areas which I know well , it takes the routes I usually would as well .
So , with the limitations in mind , it 's perfect for urban/suburban dwellers .
I only wish Google would make a standale GPS unit with no internet connection required and cheap updates - I would snap it up in a heartbeat .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I utterly and completely agree with you - particularly in rural areas, GPS needing 3G or Edge connection isn't going to cut it.But, this will impact sales.
I don't know about TomTom, but my experience with Garmin is that it's routing is shit.
I have several units and there are a ton of spots where it will consistently take you via a route that takes much longer, it wants to exit from the fast highway usually one exit too early in order to go the roads beridden with stop signs and lights, and in some cases, it would take nonsensical detours from an otherwise straight road as if Garmin wanted you in a sight-seeing tour of the countryside, doubling not only time of a short trip, but the distance.
Garmin has some seriously fucked up routing that even a non-native with just a map would ever pick, and I ran into this in Pennsylvania, Kentucky, Washington State, and even in Europe.
It's not a localized issue.
I love my Garmins in areas I don't know, but that is about it.OTOH, Google Maps has some of the best routing I have seen, consistently, and in my native areas which I know well, it takes the routes I usually would as well.
So, with the limitations in mind, it's perfect for urban/suburban dwellers.
I only wish Google would make a standale GPS unit with no internet connection required and cheap updates - I would snap it up in a heartbeat.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924315</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29931325</id>
	<title>Re:Walmart, I mean Google Strikes Again!</title>
	<author>slapout</author>
	<datestamp>1256914440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not "free" if you have to pay for the phone and the monthly data plan.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not " free " if you have to pay for the phone and the monthly data plan .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not "free" if you have to pay for the phone and the monthly data plan.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924673</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29929385</id>
	<title>Different usage patterns</title>
	<author>3247</author>
	<datestamp>1256900400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Cell phones won't make car navigation obsolete. They haven't made car stereos obsolete, either.</p><p>The real reason, however, is not what the author of the linked article thinks. The real reason is that they are just made for two different types of usages: The cell phone or smartphone is the device you carry with you (absorbing MP3 players and PDAs). The car nav is the device you use in your car. Simple as that.</p><p>The two classes of devices do share a lot of common hardware: processors, RAM, flash memory &ndash; and yes, some phones do come with GPS and some car navs do come with WWAN radio. But that's not the point. The hardware is not important and its price is neglectible. It's just a container for the functions and usage patterns. In other words, it's not important what the device is but what it does and where it does it.</p><p>The smartphone does everything in your pocket; the car nav does navigation in your car. Different devices.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Cell phones wo n't make car navigation obsolete .
They have n't made car stereos obsolete , either.The real reason , however , is not what the author of the linked article thinks .
The real reason is that they are just made for two different types of usages : The cell phone or smartphone is the device you carry with you ( absorbing MP3 players and PDAs ) .
The car nav is the device you use in your car .
Simple as that.The two classes of devices do share a lot of common hardware : processors , RAM , flash memory    and yes , some phones do come with GPS and some car navs do come with WWAN radio .
But that 's not the point .
The hardware is not important and its price is neglectible .
It 's just a container for the functions and usage patterns .
In other words , it 's not important what the device is but what it does and where it does it.The smartphone does everything in your pocket ; the car nav does navigation in your car .
Different devices .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cell phones won't make car navigation obsolete.
They haven't made car stereos obsolete, either.The real reason, however, is not what the author of the linked article thinks.
The real reason is that they are just made for two different types of usages: The cell phone or smartphone is the device you carry with you (absorbing MP3 players and PDAs).
The car nav is the device you use in your car.
Simple as that.The two classes of devices do share a lot of common hardware: processors, RAM, flash memory – and yes, some phones do come with GPS and some car navs do come with WWAN radio.
But that's not the point.
The hardware is not important and its price is neglectible.
It's just a container for the functions and usage patterns.
In other words, it's not important what the device is but what it does and where it does it.The smartphone does everything in your pocket; the car nav does navigation in your car.
Different devices.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925331</id>
	<title>Re:Will replace my Garmin when ...</title>
	<author>Buelldozer</author>
	<datestamp>1256923620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bingo! If you weren't already at +5 I'd mod you up.</p><p>This isn't the first time this story has come around and it's as STUPID now as it was then. These 'analysts', and I use that term loosely, entirely ignore the outdoors-man market where a rugged GPS is mandatory. An iPhone or Android phone is not an acceptable replacement for a device that is waterproof, floats, extremely accurate, uses commonly available AA batteries so you can pack spares, vibration proof, and lasts for DAYS on a single set.</p><p>GPS enabled phones are not going to replace a standard outdoor GPS any time soon, if ever.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bingo !
If you were n't already at + 5 I 'd mod you up.This is n't the first time this story has come around and it 's as STUPID now as it was then .
These 'analysts ' , and I use that term loosely , entirely ignore the outdoors-man market where a rugged GPS is mandatory .
An iPhone or Android phone is not an acceptable replacement for a device that is waterproof , floats , extremely accurate , uses commonly available AA batteries so you can pack spares , vibration proof , and lasts for DAYS on a single set.GPS enabled phones are not going to replace a standard outdoor GPS any time soon , if ever .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bingo!
If you weren't already at +5 I'd mod you up.This isn't the first time this story has come around and it's as STUPID now as it was then.
These 'analysts', and I use that term loosely, entirely ignore the outdoors-man market where a rugged GPS is mandatory.
An iPhone or Android phone is not an acceptable replacement for a device that is waterproof, floats, extremely accurate, uses commonly available AA batteries so you can pack spares, vibration proof, and lasts for DAYS on a single set.GPS enabled phones are not going to replace a standard outdoor GPS any time soon, if ever.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924455</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29931417</id>
	<title>Re:Another reason I doubt this will happen</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1256915460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>TomTom doesn't use an external GPS, it uses an external antenna on the iPhone, which was trivial to build into the mounting bracket, which is what you are actually buying.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>TomTom does n't use an external GPS , it uses an external antenna on the iPhone , which was trivial to build into the mounting bracket , which is what you are actually buying .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>TomTom doesn't use an external GPS, it uses an external antenna on the iPhone, which was trivial to build into the mounting bracket, which is what you are actually buying.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924773</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924953</id>
	<title>Another reason</title>
	<author>Yurka</author>
	<datestamp>1256922300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Google street maps are not by Google (so far; this may change, of course). TomTom owns Tele Atlas (which owns GDT), and is therefore one of only 2 companies with established road network data business (the other one being Nokia, nee NAVTEQ - and Tele Atlas has always had a better coverage outside North America). The exponential explosion in geocoding devices cannot be anything but good for the licensing revenue of these 2 companies. Garmin, though, has no prayer in this segment and would do good to concentrate on hiking market.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Google street maps are not by Google ( so far ; this may change , of course ) .
TomTom owns Tele Atlas ( which owns GDT ) , and is therefore one of only 2 companies with established road network data business ( the other one being Nokia , nee NAVTEQ - and Tele Atlas has always had a better coverage outside North America ) .
The exponential explosion in geocoding devices can not be anything but good for the licensing revenue of these 2 companies .
Garmin , though , has no prayer in this segment and would do good to concentrate on hiking market .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Google street maps are not by Google (so far; this may change, of course).
TomTom owns Tele Atlas (which owns GDT), and is therefore one of only 2 companies with established road network data business (the other one being Nokia, nee NAVTEQ - and Tele Atlas has always had a better coverage outside North America).
The exponential explosion in geocoding devices cannot be anything but good for the licensing revenue of these 2 companies.
Garmin, though, has no prayer in this segment and would do good to concentrate on hiking market.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29927297</id>
	<title>Re:Not yet</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256932680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is absolutely nothing wrong with being on the phone and using a GPS unit at the same time.  You must be referring to being on the phone and driving at the same time.  Standalone GPS units are for much more than just telling you when to turn while driving.  They are quite handy for heading out anywhere on earth not just the road system.</p><p>I'm sure smartphones will dent the market for GPS units, but it won't eliminate them.  I imagine Gramin and Tom Tom will rely more on rugged outdoor units and larger screen units for permanent mounting in cars, boats, rvs, etc. and their lower end consumer models will take the big hit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is absolutely nothing wrong with being on the phone and using a GPS unit at the same time .
You must be referring to being on the phone and driving at the same time .
Standalone GPS units are for much more than just telling you when to turn while driving .
They are quite handy for heading out anywhere on earth not just the road system.I 'm sure smartphones will dent the market for GPS units , but it wo n't eliminate them .
I imagine Gramin and Tom Tom will rely more on rugged outdoor units and larger screen units for permanent mounting in cars , boats , rvs , etc .
and their lower end consumer models will take the big hit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is absolutely nothing wrong with being on the phone and using a GPS unit at the same time.
You must be referring to being on the phone and driving at the same time.
Standalone GPS units are for much more than just telling you when to turn while driving.
They are quite handy for heading out anywhere on earth not just the road system.I'm sure smartphones will dent the market for GPS units, but it won't eliminate them.
I imagine Gramin and Tom Tom will rely more on rugged outdoor units and larger screen units for permanent mounting in cars, boats, rvs, etc.
and their lower end consumer models will take the big hit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924425</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924419</id>
	<title>wait...</title>
	<author>sandwichbutton</author>
	<datestamp>1256920260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>does this mean that using the north star for gps is obsolete then?</htmltext>
<tokenext>does this mean that using the north star for gps is obsolete then ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>does this mean that using the north star for gps is obsolete then?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926537</id>
	<title>Re:Walmart, I mean Google Strikes Again!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256929200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>go make buggy whips somewhere else. i want it free now. rent-seeking is not behavior i care about.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>go make buggy whips somewhere else .
i want it free now .
rent-seeking is not behavior i care about .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>go make buggy whips somewhere else.
i want it free now.
rent-seeking is not behavior i care about.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924673</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925955</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>Dun Malg</author>
	<datestamp>1256926620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Here's a question: are standalone GPS significantly better than a cell phone GPS?</p> </div><p>Most standalone and cell phone GPS receivers are the same. Everyone is using a cheap commodity GPS receiver like the SiRFstar III. Dedicated GPS units often have a better antenna, but the data coming from the receiver is generally the same no matter what the device. Beyond that, it's all what you do with the data in software.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's a question : are standalone GPS significantly better than a cell phone GPS ?
Most standalone and cell phone GPS receivers are the same .
Everyone is using a cheap commodity GPS receiver like the SiRFstar III .
Dedicated GPS units often have a better antenna , but the data coming from the receiver is generally the same no matter what the device .
Beyond that , it 's all what you do with the data in software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's a question: are standalone GPS significantly better than a cell phone GPS?
Most standalone and cell phone GPS receivers are the same.
Everyone is using a cheap commodity GPS receiver like the SiRFstar III.
Dedicated GPS units often have a better antenna, but the data coming from the receiver is generally the same no matter what the device.
Beyond that, it's all what you do with the data in software.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925217</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925033</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256922540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>wow, you must either a) have OnStar or b) never get stranded in a car.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>wow , you must either a ) have OnStar or b ) never get stranded in a car .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>wow, you must either a) have OnStar or b) never get stranded in a car.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924315</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924429</id>
	<title>Inevitable</title>
	<author>Nethemas the Great</author>
	<datestamp>1256920260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A GPS device is in every cell phone in accordance with US law.  Of course people will use that instead if they're permitted.  Why carry a separate and often bulky device?</p><p>The only solution I see to this is to ban access to the built in device to all but emergency responders...  If we don't write some protection laws quickly we'll surely see the end of companies like Garmin.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A GPS device is in every cell phone in accordance with US law .
Of course people will use that instead if they 're permitted .
Why carry a separate and often bulky device ? The only solution I see to this is to ban access to the built in device to all but emergency responders... If we do n't write some protection laws quickly we 'll surely see the end of companies like Garmin .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A GPS device is in every cell phone in accordance with US law.
Of course people will use that instead if they're permitted.
Why carry a separate and often bulky device?The only solution I see to this is to ban access to the built in device to all but emergency responders...  If we don't write some protection laws quickly we'll surely see the end of companies like Garmin.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926707</id>
	<title>Dedicated GPS much better at tracking movement</title>
	<author>SuperKendall</author>
	<datestamp>1256929920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>I have never used a GPS and wouldn't know the difference between what comes standard in a GPS phone versus what comes standard in a stand-alone unit. Is it enough for most people who already have the former to also pick up the latter?</i></p><p>The GPS receivers in mobile devices today are OK, and good enough to find your way around pretty easily.  If you are standing still they can pinpoint you really well.</p><p>True turn-by-turn, where the receiver has to keep up with your position in a few meters so it can warn you a turn is coming up?  They are not nearly as good at that.  When you are moving in a car, they can often lag or veer in weird ways.</p><p>The TomTom app in the iPhone plans to address that by having a custom dock that includes a more powerful receiver that the application talks to, which should yield more accurate results and allow turn-by-turn to work properly.  The Droid has a car-specific dock, perhaps that will do something similar - I've not yet heard if that is the case.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have never used a GPS and would n't know the difference between what comes standard in a GPS phone versus what comes standard in a stand-alone unit .
Is it enough for most people who already have the former to also pick up the latter ? The GPS receivers in mobile devices today are OK , and good enough to find your way around pretty easily .
If you are standing still they can pinpoint you really well.True turn-by-turn , where the receiver has to keep up with your position in a few meters so it can warn you a turn is coming up ?
They are not nearly as good at that .
When you are moving in a car , they can often lag or veer in weird ways.The TomTom app in the iPhone plans to address that by having a custom dock that includes a more powerful receiver that the application talks to , which should yield more accurate results and allow turn-by-turn to work properly .
The Droid has a car-specific dock , perhaps that will do something similar - I 've not yet heard if that is the case .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have never used a GPS and wouldn't know the difference between what comes standard in a GPS phone versus what comes standard in a stand-alone unit.
Is it enough for most people who already have the former to also pick up the latter?The GPS receivers in mobile devices today are OK, and good enough to find your way around pretty easily.
If you are standing still they can pinpoint you really well.True turn-by-turn, where the receiver has to keep up with your position in a few meters so it can warn you a turn is coming up?
They are not nearly as good at that.
When you are moving in a car, they can often lag or veer in weird ways.The TomTom app in the iPhone plans to address that by having a custom dock that includes a more powerful receiver that the application talks to, which should yield more accurate results and allow turn-by-turn to work properly.
The Droid has a car-specific dock, perhaps that will do something similar - I've not yet heard if that is the case.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925217</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925885</id>
	<title>Uh, I don't think so</title>
	<author>DigitalSorceress</author>
	<datestamp>1256926260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I seriously doubt that stand alone gps can truly ever be replaced... not for gps apps/solutions that rely on connectivity.</p><p>Perfect example: I recently finished a 6,000 mile road trip across Canada and back. Both my traveling companion and I had iPhones. We both turned off all data for the entire time we were in Canada... if we hadn't we'd have gotten multi-thousand dollar bills from Rogers Internet for data roaming. Think I'm kidding? last Canada road trip, my traveling companion didn't turn hers off. Got a call from AT&amp;T halfway into the trip asking if she meant to be racking up $2000 in data roaming. Took us a couple days to get the pucker marks out of the passenger seat.</p><p>(okay, I kid about the pucker marks, but not about the bill or the call from AT&amp;T).</p><p>Google Maps is great, but it relies on an active data connection... something you don't always have available whether due to low signal or STUPID high prices.</p><p>Stand-alone units don't have this problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I seriously doubt that stand alone gps can truly ever be replaced... not for gps apps/solutions that rely on connectivity.Perfect example : I recently finished a 6,000 mile road trip across Canada and back .
Both my traveling companion and I had iPhones .
We both turned off all data for the entire time we were in Canada... if we had n't we 'd have gotten multi-thousand dollar bills from Rogers Internet for data roaming .
Think I 'm kidding ?
last Canada road trip , my traveling companion did n't turn hers off .
Got a call from AT&amp;T halfway into the trip asking if she meant to be racking up $ 2000 in data roaming .
Took us a couple days to get the pucker marks out of the passenger seat .
( okay , I kid about the pucker marks , but not about the bill or the call from AT&amp;T ) .Google Maps is great , but it relies on an active data connection... something you do n't always have available whether due to low signal or STUPID high prices.Stand-alone units do n't have this problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I seriously doubt that stand alone gps can truly ever be replaced... not for gps apps/solutions that rely on connectivity.Perfect example: I recently finished a 6,000 mile road trip across Canada and back.
Both my traveling companion and I had iPhones.
We both turned off all data for the entire time we were in Canada... if we hadn't we'd have gotten multi-thousand dollar bills from Rogers Internet for data roaming.
Think I'm kidding?
last Canada road trip, my traveling companion didn't turn hers off.
Got a call from AT&amp;T halfway into the trip asking if she meant to be racking up $2000 in data roaming.
Took us a couple days to get the pucker marks out of the passenger seat.
(okay, I kid about the pucker marks, but not about the bill or the call from AT&amp;T).Google Maps is great, but it relies on an active data connection... something you don't always have available whether due to low signal or STUPID high prices.Stand-alone units don't have this problem.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926053</id>
	<title>Re:Inevitable</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256927100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>you can't stop evolution</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>you ca n't stop evolution</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you can't stop evolution</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924429</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29934271</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>WhiteWolf666</author>
	<datestamp>1257001860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In my opinion, for those "inside civilization"* a GPS phone is vastly superior to a standalone GPS. I've used both extensively.</p><p>A standalone GPS is restricted to the database it can carry around. Some, like the Tom-Tom's, have a nice software interface for updating this regularly, but it is impractical to do this more than once a day, and a hassle to boot.</p><p>My Pre, on the other hand, running Sprint's Telenav, gets updates "on the wire". This has a side effect of offering you a much larger database, too; you aren't restricted by on-board storage, but can have Telenav's entire phone book at your finger tips. Most areas also have traffic congestion information, as well, which is very, very nice.</p><p>You can do other things as well, such as "find the cheapest gas along my route". Not to mention that Telenav fixes the routing on a regular basis; I've seen routing improve in areas that had undergone recent construction. It's really a *very* nice app.</p><p>*All that being said, you need to be inside cell coverage for it to work at all. I've heard that they are working on an offline option for which you would carry some data with you, and would sync up when you get back into coverage, but at the moment the cell phone approach is not the best when you are going to spend a significant amount of time off the interstates (IMHO, there is decent Sprint/Verizon coverage everywhere in the US with 5-10 miles of the interstates, but it can get hairy on state highways). This sound like a big problem, however, very very few citydwellers end up in the sticks on a regular basis, and for those that do, you can usually get the last 20-50 miles of your drive done without a GPS system.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In my opinion , for those " inside civilization " * a GPS phone is vastly superior to a standalone GPS .
I 've used both extensively.A standalone GPS is restricted to the database it can carry around .
Some , like the Tom-Tom 's , have a nice software interface for updating this regularly , but it is impractical to do this more than once a day , and a hassle to boot.My Pre , on the other hand , running Sprint 's Telenav , gets updates " on the wire " .
This has a side effect of offering you a much larger database , too ; you are n't restricted by on-board storage , but can have Telenav 's entire phone book at your finger tips .
Most areas also have traffic congestion information , as well , which is very , very nice.You can do other things as well , such as " find the cheapest gas along my route " .
Not to mention that Telenav fixes the routing on a regular basis ; I 've seen routing improve in areas that had undergone recent construction .
It 's really a * very * nice app .
* All that being said , you need to be inside cell coverage for it to work at all .
I 've heard that they are working on an offline option for which you would carry some data with you , and would sync up when you get back into coverage , but at the moment the cell phone approach is not the best when you are going to spend a significant amount of time off the interstates ( IMHO , there is decent Sprint/Verizon coverage everywhere in the US with 5-10 miles of the interstates , but it can get hairy on state highways ) .
This sound like a big problem , however , very very few citydwellers end up in the sticks on a regular basis , and for those that do , you can usually get the last 20-50 miles of your drive done without a GPS system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my opinion, for those "inside civilization"* a GPS phone is vastly superior to a standalone GPS.
I've used both extensively.A standalone GPS is restricted to the database it can carry around.
Some, like the Tom-Tom's, have a nice software interface for updating this regularly, but it is impractical to do this more than once a day, and a hassle to boot.My Pre, on the other hand, running Sprint's Telenav, gets updates "on the wire".
This has a side effect of offering you a much larger database, too; you aren't restricted by on-board storage, but can have Telenav's entire phone book at your finger tips.
Most areas also have traffic congestion information, as well, which is very, very nice.You can do other things as well, such as "find the cheapest gas along my route".
Not to mention that Telenav fixes the routing on a regular basis; I've seen routing improve in areas that had undergone recent construction.
It's really a *very* nice app.
*All that being said, you need to be inside cell coverage for it to work at all.
I've heard that they are working on an offline option for which you would carry some data with you, and would sync up when you get back into coverage, but at the moment the cell phone approach is not the best when you are going to spend a significant amount of time off the interstates (IMHO, there is decent Sprint/Verizon coverage everywhere in the US with 5-10 miles of the interstates, but it can get hairy on state highways).
This sound like a big problem, however, very very few citydwellers end up in the sticks on a regular basis, and for those that do, you can usually get the last 20-50 miles of your drive done without a GPS system.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925217</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925225</id>
	<title>Re:Needs internet connection</title>
	<author>Hognoxious</author>
	<datestamp>1256923260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Such a thing is certainly possible, that's how Ovi maps works (I use it on a Nokia E71), but google seem to have a religious doctine of "thou shalt be always connected".</htmltext>
<tokenext>Such a thing is certainly possible , that 's how Ovi maps works ( I use it on a Nokia E71 ) , but google seem to have a religious doctine of " thou shalt be always connected " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Such a thing is certainly possible, that's how Ovi maps works (I use it on a Nokia E71), but google seem to have a religious doctine of "thou shalt be always connected".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924871</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29930043</id>
	<title>Re:Uh, I don't think so</title>
	<author>farble1670</author>
	<datestamp>1256904840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>imagine if you will a day far, far in the future when SD cards will be big enough to store your maps for offline use<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... oh wait<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</htmltext>
<tokenext>imagine if you will a day far , far in the future when SD cards will be big enough to store your maps for offline use ... oh wait .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>imagine if you will a day far, far in the future when SD cards will be big enough to store your maps for offline use ... oh wait ...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925885</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.30034216</id>
	<title>Didn't Austrailia make this illegal?</title>
	<author>WindShadow</author>
	<datestamp>1257787980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have the feeling that <a href="http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2009/08/using-iphone-satnav-apps-while-driving-is-actually-illegal/" title="gizmodo.com.au" rel="nofollow">
in Australia using a phone as a GPS is illegal</a> [gizmodo.com.au]
And it seems to me that having the maps actually in the device is a requirement, Internet is not <i>that</i> omnipresent.
</p><p>
GPS and computer maps are still only "best effort" information, there was an article about both Google and Mapquest routing people down a flight of stairs, and Google in NJ had us following a road which ended at a cow pasture. The tech to match satellite photos to map data, as a sanity check, seems to have a way to go.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have the feeling that in Australia using a phone as a GPS is illegal [ gizmodo.com.au ] And it seems to me that having the maps actually in the device is a requirement , Internet is not that omnipresent .
GPS and computer maps are still only " best effort " information , there was an article about both Google and Mapquest routing people down a flight of stairs , and Google in NJ had us following a road which ended at a cow pasture .
The tech to match satellite photos to map data , as a sanity check , seems to have a way to go .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have the feeling that 
in Australia using a phone as a GPS is illegal [gizmodo.com.au]
And it seems to me that having the maps actually in the device is a requirement, Internet is not that omnipresent.
GPS and computer maps are still only "best effort" information, there was an article about both Google and Mapquest routing people down a flight of stairs, and Google in NJ had us following a road which ended at a cow pasture.
The tech to match satellite photos to map data, as a sanity check, seems to have a way to go.
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925567</id>
	<title>Re:Will replace my Garmin when ...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256924760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not really about when are we going to throw away our Garmins.  It's about garming charging for maps, road construction, safety camera info, updates.  I was debating about paying the $150 for lifetime maps for my Nuvi.  But it's locked to a single device, not editable in anyway and pricey (on top of the $180 single use device.) All thoughts of purchasing that are now gone for this phone.  I will keep my garmin Vista (or replace with similar) for riding the quads/motorcycles/mountain bikes where there are no roads (sand dunes, changing trails.)<br>So knocking 15\%+ off of garmin stock price seams correct, their overall growth in GPS is very unlikely (but lower volume/higher priced boating, fishing, offroad GPS growth is likely to stay.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not really about when are we going to throw away our Garmins .
It 's about garming charging for maps , road construction , safety camera info , updates .
I was debating about paying the $ 150 for lifetime maps for my Nuvi .
But it 's locked to a single device , not editable in anyway and pricey ( on top of the $ 180 single use device .
) All thoughts of purchasing that are now gone for this phone .
I will keep my garmin Vista ( or replace with similar ) for riding the quads/motorcycles/mountain bikes where there are no roads ( sand dunes , changing trails .
) So knocking 15 \ % + off of garmin stock price seams correct , their overall growth in GPS is very unlikely ( but lower volume/higher priced boating , fishing , offroad GPS growth is likely to stay .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not really about when are we going to throw away our Garmins.
It's about garming charging for maps, road construction, safety camera info, updates.
I was debating about paying the $150 for lifetime maps for my Nuvi.
But it's locked to a single device, not editable in anyway and pricey (on top of the $180 single use device.
) All thoughts of purchasing that are now gone for this phone.
I will keep my garmin Vista (or replace with similar) for riding the quads/motorcycles/mountain bikes where there are no roads (sand dunes, changing trails.
)So knocking 15\%+ off of garmin stock price seams correct, their overall growth in GPS is very unlikely (but lower volume/higher priced boating, fishing, offroad GPS growth is likely to stay.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924455</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924983</id>
	<title>Re:Hard to monetize a free service</title>
	<author>Enry</author>
	<datestamp>1256922420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The GPS signals are free.  What costs money is having accurate maps and intelligent routing software and making it all fit on a portable device.  Google gets around that by having the maps and brains located on a server and relying on quality cell reception to get the information to the (dumb) client.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The GPS signals are free .
What costs money is having accurate maps and intelligent routing software and making it all fit on a portable device .
Google gets around that by having the maps and brains located on a server and relying on quality cell reception to get the information to the ( dumb ) client .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The GPS signals are free.
What costs money is having accurate maps and intelligent routing software and making it all fit on a portable device.
Google gets around that by having the maps and brains located on a server and relying on quality cell reception to get the information to the (dumb) client.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924393</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924939</id>
	<title>No thanks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256922240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No thanks, I prefer my TomTom ONE 3rd edition, complete with</p><p>- Decently sized screen.<br>- No expensive cell phone data plan required.<br>- No recurring service charges unless I want a map update.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No thanks , I prefer my TomTom ONE 3rd edition , complete with- Decently sized screen.- No expensive cell phone data plan required.- No recurring service charges unless I want a map update .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No thanks, I prefer my TomTom ONE 3rd edition, complete with- Decently sized screen.- No expensive cell phone data plan required.- No recurring service charges unless I want a map update.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924833</id>
	<title>On-Board GPS</title>
	<author>Pikkebaas</author>
	<datestamp>1256921880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>On-board devices will snuff out standalone GPS far quicker than Android with google maps ever will.</htmltext>
<tokenext>On-board devices will snuff out standalone GPS far quicker than Android with google maps ever will .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On-board devices will snuff out standalone GPS far quicker than Android with google maps ever will.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925313</id>
	<title>Re:Android GPS - works for US only</title>
	<author>blincoln</author>
	<datestamp>1256923560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>it all works perfectly when you live in a huge country</i></p><p>Actually, it doesn't work perfectly even then.</p><p>I have a G1. I live in Seattle. A few months ago I drove to Yellowstone. I had only roaming coverage (IE no data use without paying an exorbitant fee) east of Spokane, Washington (so I didn't even make it beyond the borders of my own state). That situation did not change for the rest of my trip. IE T-Mobile has no coverage anywhere that I traveled in Idaho, Montana, or Wyoming. And yes, I know there was literally no coverage because I have the weather widget that updates its display every time it can using the name of the nearest city. It was "Spokane, WA" through all three of those states.</p><p>There are a lot of cool things about the G1, but if you ask me it and its software were designed by a bunch of city slickers who never venture more than a few meters beyond their home, the office, and/or their favourite coffee shop.</p><p>The caching thing that's allegedly a new feature is a good first step, but I'd much rather just shell out ~$50/year and have all of the map and business data stored in flash memory. For example, on my way back from Yellowstone I stopped in Bozeman. It sure would have been nice if I could have looked up local businesses. I ended up using the Yellow Pages at a gas station.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>it all works perfectly when you live in a huge countryActually , it does n't work perfectly even then.I have a G1 .
I live in Seattle .
A few months ago I drove to Yellowstone .
I had only roaming coverage ( IE no data use without paying an exorbitant fee ) east of Spokane , Washington ( so I did n't even make it beyond the borders of my own state ) .
That situation did not change for the rest of my trip .
IE T-Mobile has no coverage anywhere that I traveled in Idaho , Montana , or Wyoming .
And yes , I know there was literally no coverage because I have the weather widget that updates its display every time it can using the name of the nearest city .
It was " Spokane , WA " through all three of those states.There are a lot of cool things about the G1 , but if you ask me it and its software were designed by a bunch of city slickers who never venture more than a few meters beyond their home , the office , and/or their favourite coffee shop.The caching thing that 's allegedly a new feature is a good first step , but I 'd much rather just shell out ~ $ 50/year and have all of the map and business data stored in flash memory .
For example , on my way back from Yellowstone I stopped in Bozeman .
It sure would have been nice if I could have looked up local businesses .
I ended up using the Yellow Pages at a gas station .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it all works perfectly when you live in a huge countryActually, it doesn't work perfectly even then.I have a G1.
I live in Seattle.
A few months ago I drove to Yellowstone.
I had only roaming coverage (IE no data use without paying an exorbitant fee) east of Spokane, Washington (so I didn't even make it beyond the borders of my own state).
That situation did not change for the rest of my trip.
IE T-Mobile has no coverage anywhere that I traveled in Idaho, Montana, or Wyoming.
And yes, I know there was literally no coverage because I have the weather widget that updates its display every time it can using the name of the nearest city.
It was "Spokane, WA" through all three of those states.There are a lot of cool things about the G1, but if you ask me it and its software were designed by a bunch of city slickers who never venture more than a few meters beyond their home, the office, and/or their favourite coffee shop.The caching thing that's allegedly a new feature is a good first step, but I'd much rather just shell out ~$50/year and have all of the map and business data stored in flash memory.
For example, on my way back from Yellowstone I stopped in Bozeman.
It sure would have been nice if I could have looked up local businesses.
I ended up using the Yellow Pages at a gas station.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924503</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924603</id>
	<title>Re:Needs internet connection</title>
	<author>norminator</author>
	<datestamp>1256920920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's modded troll because the truth is that while all maps are not stored on the unit, maps for the current route are cached locally.  As long as you have service when you start driving and you don't go too far out of your way, you'll be fine.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's modded troll because the truth is that while all maps are not stored on the unit , maps for the current route are cached locally .
As long as you have service when you start driving and you do n't go too far out of your way , you 'll be fine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's modded troll because the truth is that while all maps are not stored on the unit, maps for the current route are cached locally.
As long as you have service when you start driving and you don't go too far out of your way, you'll be fine.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924375</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925835</id>
	<title>A good cloud GPS system....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256926020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think than any good cloud only turn by turn GPS system would cache all map data required to complete the trip when then destination is selected.  Then the only limitation would be that you could not change your route until a data signal is re acquired.  Or an even smarter solution is that the phone would know where a signal is not available and cache only those areas. The ultimate solution would be a mixuture of cloud and device stored maps, that way the maps and points of interests are always up to date.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think than any good cloud only turn by turn GPS system would cache all map data required to complete the trip when then destination is selected .
Then the only limitation would be that you could not change your route until a data signal is re acquired .
Or an even smarter solution is that the phone would know where a signal is not available and cache only those areas .
The ultimate solution would be a mixuture of cloud and device stored maps , that way the maps and points of interests are always up to date .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think than any good cloud only turn by turn GPS system would cache all map data required to complete the trip when then destination is selected.
Then the only limitation would be that you could not change your route until a data signal is re acquired.
Or an even smarter solution is that the phone would know where a signal is not available and cache only those areas.
The ultimate solution would be a mixuture of cloud and device stored maps, that way the maps and points of interests are always up to date.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924671</id>
	<title>Seriously, WTF?</title>
	<author>sean.peters</author>
	<datestamp>1256921280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The only solution I see to this is to ban access to the built in device to all but emergency responders... If we don't write some protection laws quickly we'll surely see the end of companies like Garmin.</p></div></blockquote><p>You. Have. Got. To. Be. Fucking. Kidding. I'm being forced to pay for a GPS device built into my phone, but now you want to deny me the use of it... because it would interfere with Garmin's profit margin? Here's a news flash, partner - Garmin is not entitled to legal protection of their profits. If I bought the damn GPS, I should get to use it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only solution I see to this is to ban access to the built in device to all but emergency responders... If we do n't write some protection laws quickly we 'll surely see the end of companies like Garmin.You .
Have. Got .
To. Be .
Fucking. Kidding .
I 'm being forced to pay for a GPS device built into my phone , but now you want to deny me the use of it... because it would interfere with Garmin 's profit margin ?
Here 's a news flash , partner - Garmin is not entitled to legal protection of their profits .
If I bought the damn GPS , I should get to use it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only solution I see to this is to ban access to the built in device to all but emergency responders... If we don't write some protection laws quickly we'll surely see the end of companies like Garmin.You.
Have. Got.
To. Be.
Fucking. Kidding.
I'm being forced to pay for a GPS device built into my phone, but now you want to deny me the use of it... because it would interfere with Garmin's profit margin?
Here's a news flash, partner - Garmin is not entitled to legal protection of their profits.
If I bought the damn GPS, I should get to use it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924429</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924949</id>
	<title>Re:Needs internet connection</title>
	<author>spyrochaete</author>
	<datestamp>1256922300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It'll be an interesting battle of philosophies there.  Nobody wants to miss a turn because the Google map didn't download in time, but on the other hand nobody wants to pay $70 to Garmin every time they need to update their maps.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 'll be an interesting battle of philosophies there .
Nobody wants to miss a turn because the Google map did n't download in time , but on the other hand nobody wants to pay $ 70 to Garmin every time they need to update their maps .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It'll be an interesting battle of philosophies there.
Nobody wants to miss a turn because the Google map didn't download in time, but on the other hand nobody wants to pay $70 to Garmin every time they need to update their maps.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924375</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29929953</id>
	<title>GPS built-in to cars will kill both</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256904180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Now that I have a car with built-in GPS, I have no use for a standalone GPS device or GPS in my phone (and I'd rather have a phone without GPS so that it has longer battery life, is cheaper, and that space in the phone can be used for other things).  Some people will still want a portable GPS for things like hiking, but I think car navigation is the biggest market.  What I'd like to see is Garmin partner with car manufacturers to provide the built-in GPS in their cars.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Now that I have a car with built-in GPS , I have no use for a standalone GPS device or GPS in my phone ( and I 'd rather have a phone without GPS so that it has longer battery life , is cheaper , and that space in the phone can be used for other things ) .
Some people will still want a portable GPS for things like hiking , but I think car navigation is the biggest market .
What I 'd like to see is Garmin partner with car manufacturers to provide the built-in GPS in their cars .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now that I have a car with built-in GPS, I have no use for a standalone GPS device or GPS in my phone (and I'd rather have a phone without GPS so that it has longer battery life, is cheaper, and that space in the phone can be used for other things).
Some people will still want a portable GPS for things like hiking, but I think car navigation is the biggest market.
What I'd like to see is Garmin partner with car manufacturers to provide the built-in GPS in their cars.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924857</id>
	<title>At least you don't get reamed for updated maps</title>
	<author>Mike Van Pelt</author>
	<datestamp>1256921940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe this will apply some pressure on Garmin and/or TomTom to not gouge quite so heavily for updated maps.  (It's in the neighborhood of $70 to upgrade your maps the last time I looked, which makes one question whether to update the maps or just buy a newer, perhaps more feature-laden, device.  Which is likely the reason for the gouge.)
</p><p>
I've heard various descriptions of what the location technology in these phones is -- Recently, a fairly knowledgeable person said that "assisted GPS" meant it used cell phones to get the ephemeris data to greatly speed up GPS start-up time, and was real GPS from there.  If it's receiving the GPS signals, though, there's no reason in principle why it couldn't get the ephemeris data the old-fashioned way, from the satellites, if you were out of cell phone range.
</p><p>
That wouldn't help with the maps when you're out of cell phone range, though, unless they provide some way to pre-download them, at least for an area you're intending to visit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe this will apply some pressure on Garmin and/or TomTom to not gouge quite so heavily for updated maps .
( It 's in the neighborhood of $ 70 to upgrade your maps the last time I looked , which makes one question whether to update the maps or just buy a newer , perhaps more feature-laden , device .
Which is likely the reason for the gouge .
) I 've heard various descriptions of what the location technology in these phones is -- Recently , a fairly knowledgeable person said that " assisted GPS " meant it used cell phones to get the ephemeris data to greatly speed up GPS start-up time , and was real GPS from there .
If it 's receiving the GPS signals , though , there 's no reason in principle why it could n't get the ephemeris data the old-fashioned way , from the satellites , if you were out of cell phone range .
That would n't help with the maps when you 're out of cell phone range , though , unless they provide some way to pre-download them , at least for an area you 're intending to visit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe this will apply some pressure on Garmin and/or TomTom to not gouge quite so heavily for updated maps.
(It's in the neighborhood of $70 to upgrade your maps the last time I looked, which makes one question whether to update the maps or just buy a newer, perhaps more feature-laden, device.
Which is likely the reason for the gouge.
)

I've heard various descriptions of what the location technology in these phones is -- Recently, a fairly knowledgeable person said that "assisted GPS" meant it used cell phones to get the ephemeris data to greatly speed up GPS start-up time, and was real GPS from there.
If it's receiving the GPS signals, though, there's no reason in principle why it couldn't get the ephemeris data the old-fashioned way, from the satellites, if you were out of cell phone range.
That wouldn't help with the maps when you're out of cell phone range, though, unless they provide some way to pre-download them, at least for an area you're intending to visit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926461</id>
	<title>Linux build of GPS software using Google Maps?</title>
	<author>nightfire-unique</author>
	<datestamp>1256928960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What I wouldn't give for <i>that</i>.  I built a carputer a couple years ago and have been using some Windows GPS software under VirtualBox.  It takes a huge amount of resources to keep it running.  Could this lead to the possibility of a useful native X client for GPS navigation?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What I would n't give for that .
I built a carputer a couple years ago and have been using some Windows GPS software under VirtualBox .
It takes a huge amount of resources to keep it running .
Could this lead to the possibility of a useful native X client for GPS navigation ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What I wouldn't give for that.
I built a carputer a couple years ago and have been using some Windows GPS software under VirtualBox.
It takes a huge amount of resources to keep it running.
Could this lead to the possibility of a useful native X client for GPS navigation?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925177</id>
	<title>Verizon</title>
	<author>PvtVoid</author>
	<datestamp>1256923140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...<a href="http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/splash/turnbyturn.jsp" title="verizonwireless.com">already does this</a> [verizonwireless.com], although, as usual for Verizon, it's completely proprietary and locked down.  It works pretty well, though.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...already does this [ verizonwireless.com ] , although , as usual for Verizon , it 's completely proprietary and locked down .
It works pretty well , though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...already does this [verizonwireless.com], although, as usual for Verizon, it's completely proprietary and locked down.
It works pretty well, though.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924831</id>
	<title>No</title>
	<author>Locke2005</author>
	<datestamp>1256921880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Rephrase the question: Will a GPS solution that requires a 3G connection to work replace a stand-alone solution? No, at least in those areas which don't have good 3G connectivity -- like almost anywhere I'd want to go hiking, for instance. Hell, I've driven in suburbs where Google Maps on the Android didn't work, and I was forced to navigate the old fashioned way. Yeah, the article says the same thing.<br> <br>
As a side note, the Google Maps data is not always correct. What Google Maps shows as the street my house is on is not a street at all, but rather the driveway of one of my neighbors. Vendors keep telling me "Oh no, I don't need directions, I've got GPS!" then wind up at my neighbor's house, and THEN they call for directions.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Rephrase the question : Will a GPS solution that requires a 3G connection to work replace a stand-alone solution ?
No , at least in those areas which do n't have good 3G connectivity -- like almost anywhere I 'd want to go hiking , for instance .
Hell , I 've driven in suburbs where Google Maps on the Android did n't work , and I was forced to navigate the old fashioned way .
Yeah , the article says the same thing .
As a side note , the Google Maps data is not always correct .
What Google Maps shows as the street my house is on is not a street at all , but rather the driveway of one of my neighbors .
Vendors keep telling me " Oh no , I do n't need directions , I 've got GPS !
" then wind up at my neighbor 's house , and THEN they call for directions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Rephrase the question: Will a GPS solution that requires a 3G connection to work replace a stand-alone solution?
No, at least in those areas which don't have good 3G connectivity -- like almost anywhere I'd want to go hiking, for instance.
Hell, I've driven in suburbs where Google Maps on the Android didn't work, and I was forced to navigate the old fashioned way.
Yeah, the article says the same thing.
As a side note, the Google Maps data is not always correct.
What Google Maps shows as the street my house is on is not a street at all, but rather the driveway of one of my neighbors.
Vendors keep telling me "Oh no, I don't need directions, I've got GPS!
" then wind up at my neighbor's house, and THEN they call for directions.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924695</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>sunderland56</author>
	<datestamp>1256921340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Many phones play music - but the iPod market is still very strong.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Many phones play music - but the iPod market is still very strong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many phones play music - but the iPod market is still very strong.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924315</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29928413</id>
	<title>Re:May replace the base OS but not the devices.</title>
	<author>drunkenoafoffofb3ta</author>
	<datestamp>1256894640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>At least with TomTom, the underlying OS is Linux anyway.

(Hence all that hoo-hah with Microsoft over the FAT patents. TomTom was using FAT on their solid state media).</htmltext>
<tokenext>At least with TomTom , the underlying OS is Linux anyway .
( Hence all that hoo-hah with Microsoft over the FAT patents .
TomTom was using FAT on their solid state media ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At least with TomTom, the underlying OS is Linux anyway.
(Hence all that hoo-hah with Microsoft over the FAT patents.
TomTom was using FAT on their solid state media).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924531</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926585</id>
	<title>Because no phone can multitask!!!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256929440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Too many assumptions here. Just because iphone can not multi-task, no other phone can multi-task?!
<br> <br>
There are lot of phone (even not as 'smart' as iphone) which can do that. Heck, my more than 2 years old BB Perl can do that.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Too many assumptions here .
Just because iphone can not multi-task , no other phone can multi-task ? !
There are lot of phone ( even not as 'smart ' as iphone ) which can do that .
Heck , my more than 2 years old BB Perl can do that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Too many assumptions here.
Just because iphone can not multi-task, no other phone can multi-task?!
There are lot of phone (even not as 'smart' as iphone) which can do that.
Heck, my more than 2 years old BB Perl can do that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924425</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924559</id>
	<title>Geocaching? Hiking?</title>
	<author>wandazulu</author>
	<datestamp>1256920680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are plenty of reasons that a route-based GPS is not all-encompassing (pun intended); a lot of places are not available by road, or the road ended long ago and now the GPS is saying you're essentially in a brown or green void.</p><p>I can see that this is not necessarily<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...mainstream..., but I've found that for hiking, geocaching, etc., I can use the TomTom to get me to the closest road or parking lot, and then I switch to (of all things) the iPhone 3gs for everything else, because of the compass and some excellent tracking software that's come out for it.</p><p>Don't Garmin and TomTom also provide the in-dash GPS for cars? I would think that would be a pretty good amount of $$$ too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are plenty of reasons that a route-based GPS is not all-encompassing ( pun intended ) ; a lot of places are not available by road , or the road ended long ago and now the GPS is saying you 're essentially in a brown or green void.I can see that this is not necessarily ...mainstream... , but I 've found that for hiking , geocaching , etc. , I can use the TomTom to get me to the closest road or parking lot , and then I switch to ( of all things ) the iPhone 3gs for everything else , because of the compass and some excellent tracking software that 's come out for it.Do n't Garmin and TomTom also provide the in-dash GPS for cars ?
I would think that would be a pretty good amount of $ $ $ too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are plenty of reasons that a route-based GPS is not all-encompassing (pun intended); a lot of places are not available by road, or the road ended long ago and now the GPS is saying you're essentially in a brown or green void.I can see that this is not necessarily ...mainstream..., but I've found that for hiking, geocaching, etc., I can use the TomTom to get me to the closest road or parking lot, and then I switch to (of all things) the iPhone 3gs for everything else, because of the compass and some excellent tracking software that's come out for it.Don't Garmin and TomTom also provide the in-dash GPS for cars?
I would think that would be a pretty good amount of $$$ too.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29929897</id>
	<title>Re:Needs internet connection</title>
	<author>farble1670</author>
	<datestamp>1256903880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <em>It sounds like the maps will still only be hosted by Google, rather than stored on the device as with standalone GPSs. As long as that's the case, there will probably still be standalone units.</em> </p><p>true<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... but a large percentage of people that have standalone GPS units now would ditch them if they could dump the extra hardware. and that number is going to go up as cell service improves. even if you don't buy into &quot;large percentage&quot;, even 10\% is enough to make companies like Garmin start to sweat.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It sounds like the maps will still only be hosted by Google , rather than stored on the device as with standalone GPSs .
As long as that 's the case , there will probably still be standalone units .
true ... but a large percentage of people that have standalone GPS units now would ditch them if they could dump the extra hardware .
and that number is going to go up as cell service improves .
even if you do n't buy into " large percentage " , even 10 \ % is enough to make companies like Garmin start to sweat .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> It sounds like the maps will still only be hosted by Google, rather than stored on the device as with standalone GPSs.
As long as that's the case, there will probably still be standalone units.
true ... but a large percentage of people that have standalone GPS units now would ditch them if they could dump the extra hardware.
and that number is going to go up as cell service improves.
even if you don't buy into "large percentage", even 10\% is enough to make companies like Garmin start to sweat.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924375</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924569</id>
	<title>Re:Needs internet connection</title>
	<author>Rhaban</author>
	<datestamp>1256920740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How can this be modded troll?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How can this be modded troll ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How can this be modded troll?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924375</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29929649</id>
	<title>Re:No.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256902140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;&gt;I'm not going to pay a monthly fee to use something.</p><p>It's free.</p><p>&gt;&gt;AT&amp;T is choking hard with a ton of people browsing the web</p><p>It's Verizon.</p><p>(Which makes statement #1 so amazing to actually be true. They are firmly within the anal-violation school of retail pricing.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; &gt; I 'm not going to pay a monthly fee to use something.It 's free. &gt; &gt; AT&amp;T is choking hard with a ton of people browsing the webIt 's Verizon .
( Which makes statement # 1 so amazing to actually be true .
They are firmly within the anal-violation school of retail pricing .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;&gt;I'm not going to pay a monthly fee to use something.It's free.&gt;&gt;AT&amp;T is choking hard with a ton of people browsing the webIt's Verizon.
(Which makes statement #1 so amazing to actually be true.
They are firmly within the anal-violation school of retail pricing.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925101</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256922840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Almost: Many phones play music - but the iPod market still very strong is.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Almost : Many phones play music - but the iPod market still very strong is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Almost: Many phones play music - but the iPod market still very strong is.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924695</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926915</id>
	<title>Re:No.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256930820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Even dedicated GPS navigators have monthly fees. TomTom charges $40 per year ($3/month) for their devices.</p><p>Of course, the Motorola Droid data plan is $30/month by itself, so the TomTom is an OoM cheaper, but still, it's not free*.</p><p>* Yes, you could in theory keep using the original set of maps forever, but that would be stupid.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Even dedicated GPS navigators have monthly fees .
TomTom charges $ 40 per year ( $ 3/month ) for their devices.Of course , the Motorola Droid data plan is $ 30/month by itself , so the TomTom is an OoM cheaper , but still , it 's not free * .
* Yes , you could in theory keep using the original set of maps forever , but that would be stupid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even dedicated GPS navigators have monthly fees.
TomTom charges $40 per year ($3/month) for their devices.Of course, the Motorola Droid data plan is $30/month by itself, so the TomTom is an OoM cheaper, but still, it's not free*.
* Yes, you could in theory keep using the original set of maps forever, but that would be stupid.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924791</id>
	<title>Wrong question</title>
	<author>gmuslera</author>
	<datestamp>1256921760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Will smartphones kill all the devices that are converging to them? Why stop at GPS when from clocks and calculators to netbooks (including cameras, ebook readers and music players, of course) all are possibly being replaced by smartphones?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Will smartphones kill all the devices that are converging to them ?
Why stop at GPS when from clocks and calculators to netbooks ( including cameras , ebook readers and music players , of course ) all are possibly being replaced by smartphones ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Will smartphones kill all the devices that are converging to them?
Why stop at GPS when from clocks and calculators to netbooks (including cameras, ebook readers and music players, of course) all are possibly being replaced by smartphones?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925081</id>
	<title>Re:Not a chance</title>
	<author>nine-times</author>
	<datestamp>1256922660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Those problems aren't unsolvable.  You've just laid out part of a design spec for a device which isn't impossible with today's technology.  First, cell signals might not be good, so you need the option to download maps ahead of time and save them to the phone.  Second, battery life is limited, and when you're far away from any power source, the cell phone eats too much power.  Well you just solved part of the problem with your definition of the problem.  Locations where you're far from power sources tends to overlap with the locations where there isn't good cell reception.  Make a device so you can turn off all wireless/cell capabilities and conserve power for the GPS.
</p><p>Ok, so that still might not be good enough for a few specialized purposes.  Maybe if you're a police officer or a hard-core outdoorsman you'll still want a separate device, in the same way that some people still want a PDA separate from their phone.  But for mainstream users?  The GPS on the phone will probably be plenty good enough.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Those problems are n't unsolvable .
You 've just laid out part of a design spec for a device which is n't impossible with today 's technology .
First , cell signals might not be good , so you need the option to download maps ahead of time and save them to the phone .
Second , battery life is limited , and when you 're far away from any power source , the cell phone eats too much power .
Well you just solved part of the problem with your definition of the problem .
Locations where you 're far from power sources tends to overlap with the locations where there is n't good cell reception .
Make a device so you can turn off all wireless/cell capabilities and conserve power for the GPS .
Ok , so that still might not be good enough for a few specialized purposes .
Maybe if you 're a police officer or a hard-core outdoorsman you 'll still want a separate device , in the same way that some people still want a PDA separate from their phone .
But for mainstream users ?
The GPS on the phone will probably be plenty good enough .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Those problems aren't unsolvable.
You've just laid out part of a design spec for a device which isn't impossible with today's technology.
First, cell signals might not be good, so you need the option to download maps ahead of time and save them to the phone.
Second, battery life is limited, and when you're far away from any power source, the cell phone eats too much power.
Well you just solved part of the problem with your definition of the problem.
Locations where you're far from power sources tends to overlap with the locations where there isn't good cell reception.
Make a device so you can turn off all wireless/cell capabilities and conserve power for the GPS.
Ok, so that still might not be good enough for a few specialized purposes.
Maybe if you're a police officer or a hard-core outdoorsman you'll still want a separate device, in the same way that some people still want a PDA separate from their phone.
But for mainstream users?
The GPS on the phone will probably be plenty good enough.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924563</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926045</id>
	<title>Doing multiple things is just an iPhone issue</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256927040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My Nokia N800 and soon N900 can do multiple things at the same time.</p><p>Being on the phone over BT doesn't impact the music playing thru speakers or the GPS working or the ssh connection or the PDF file being viewed. The only limit is which app is currently displayed due to the screen size. Since I'm a hiker, I'm interested in my saved hike tracks and geocache locations.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My Nokia N800 and soon N900 can do multiple things at the same time.Being on the phone over BT does n't impact the music playing thru speakers or the GPS working or the ssh connection or the PDF file being viewed .
The only limit is which app is currently displayed due to the screen size .
Since I 'm a hiker , I 'm interested in my saved hike tracks and geocache locations .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My Nokia N800 and soon N900 can do multiple things at the same time.Being on the phone over BT doesn't impact the music playing thru speakers or the GPS working or the ssh connection or the PDF file being viewed.
The only limit is which app is currently displayed due to the screen size.
Since I'm a hiker, I'm interested in my saved hike tracks and geocache locations.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924425</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925537</id>
	<title>I have 7 stand-alone GPS devices....</title>
	<author>SwedishChef</author>
	<datestamp>1256924520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have, if I can remember correctly, seven separate GPS units including two in each car (Magellan), two handheld units that are waterproof for sea kayaking (both Garmin but one has all the US marine charts and both do tracking), one stand-alone Garmin for our 1974 Carver 25-foot cabin cruiser that can take inputs from depth sounder and radar plus contains maps and charts for the entire west coast of North America (Garmin), one aviation-oriented Garmin that contains aviation charts and interfaces with my glider's computer, and one Magellan hand-held that my business used when we did a wireless ISP.</p><p>Even though my iPhone has a very inexpensive GPS application for marine charts (with downloadable maps), and even though I often take it (in a water-tight enclosure) with me sea kayaking, it's not likely to replace the hand held waterproof Garmins because they have specialized features (trip counters, currents, etc) that are easier to access and screens made for use in bright sunlight.</p><p>Similarly, the GPS units made specifically for aviation and marine use are not likely to be replaced by a combination cell phone/GPS. You need more than turn-by-turn instructions when flying from thermal to thermal in a glider, for instance.</p><p>And although many late model cars come with built-in GPS systems these are expensive to upgrade and do not allow any changes while the car is moving (even by the passenger). Their screens can be fabulous but the annoyance of having to pull over and stop if something changes has made several of my friends go buy a Nuvi just so they can get the functionality they want. So all their built-in units do is track and display speed, direction, etc. The turn-by-turn is left up to the stand-alone unit mounted on the windshield.</p><p>The biggest hurdle to mass use of cell phone GPS devices is likely to be the simple fact that 3G coverage is going to be spotty for a long time to come. Rural Oregon, Idaho, Nevada or Montana is not likely to have either wifi or 3G except along the main Interstate highways or in larger cities. And the same will hold true for many other states. Combine this with the handicap of the cell phone screen which is often too small to be seen when mounted 2 or 3 feet away on the dashboard or windshield and you will have people buying stand-alone GPS systems for a long time to come.</p><p>But the market for the stand-alone units is likely to shrink. Pedestrians or byclists who stay in town would take their cell phone anyway and having it track their rides or walks would make them unlikely to buy one of the Garmin wrist-mounted units. And if I traveled to a large city on business I'd take my iPhone but probably not a GPS unit; the iPhone could do whatever I needed it to do with the likelihood of 3G coverage.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have , if I can remember correctly , seven separate GPS units including two in each car ( Magellan ) , two handheld units that are waterproof for sea kayaking ( both Garmin but one has all the US marine charts and both do tracking ) , one stand-alone Garmin for our 1974 Carver 25-foot cabin cruiser that can take inputs from depth sounder and radar plus contains maps and charts for the entire west coast of North America ( Garmin ) , one aviation-oriented Garmin that contains aviation charts and interfaces with my glider 's computer , and one Magellan hand-held that my business used when we did a wireless ISP.Even though my iPhone has a very inexpensive GPS application for marine charts ( with downloadable maps ) , and even though I often take it ( in a water-tight enclosure ) with me sea kayaking , it 's not likely to replace the hand held waterproof Garmins because they have specialized features ( trip counters , currents , etc ) that are easier to access and screens made for use in bright sunlight.Similarly , the GPS units made specifically for aviation and marine use are not likely to be replaced by a combination cell phone/GPS .
You need more than turn-by-turn instructions when flying from thermal to thermal in a glider , for instance.And although many late model cars come with built-in GPS systems these are expensive to upgrade and do not allow any changes while the car is moving ( even by the passenger ) .
Their screens can be fabulous but the annoyance of having to pull over and stop if something changes has made several of my friends go buy a Nuvi just so they can get the functionality they want .
So all their built-in units do is track and display speed , direction , etc .
The turn-by-turn is left up to the stand-alone unit mounted on the windshield.The biggest hurdle to mass use of cell phone GPS devices is likely to be the simple fact that 3G coverage is going to be spotty for a long time to come .
Rural Oregon , Idaho , Nevada or Montana is not likely to have either wifi or 3G except along the main Interstate highways or in larger cities .
And the same will hold true for many other states .
Combine this with the handicap of the cell phone screen which is often too small to be seen when mounted 2 or 3 feet away on the dashboard or windshield and you will have people buying stand-alone GPS systems for a long time to come.But the market for the stand-alone units is likely to shrink .
Pedestrians or byclists who stay in town would take their cell phone anyway and having it track their rides or walks would make them unlikely to buy one of the Garmin wrist-mounted units .
And if I traveled to a large city on business I 'd take my iPhone but probably not a GPS unit ; the iPhone could do whatever I needed it to do with the likelihood of 3G coverage .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have, if I can remember correctly, seven separate GPS units including two in each car (Magellan), two handheld units that are waterproof for sea kayaking (both Garmin but one has all the US marine charts and both do tracking), one stand-alone Garmin for our 1974 Carver 25-foot cabin cruiser that can take inputs from depth sounder and radar plus contains maps and charts for the entire west coast of North America (Garmin), one aviation-oriented Garmin that contains aviation charts and interfaces with my glider's computer, and one Magellan hand-held that my business used when we did a wireless ISP.Even though my iPhone has a very inexpensive GPS application for marine charts (with downloadable maps), and even though I often take it (in a water-tight enclosure) with me sea kayaking, it's not likely to replace the hand held waterproof Garmins because they have specialized features (trip counters, currents, etc) that are easier to access and screens made for use in bright sunlight.Similarly, the GPS units made specifically for aviation and marine use are not likely to be replaced by a combination cell phone/GPS.
You need more than turn-by-turn instructions when flying from thermal to thermal in a glider, for instance.And although many late model cars come with built-in GPS systems these are expensive to upgrade and do not allow any changes while the car is moving (even by the passenger).
Their screens can be fabulous but the annoyance of having to pull over and stop if something changes has made several of my friends go buy a Nuvi just so they can get the functionality they want.
So all their built-in units do is track and display speed, direction, etc.
The turn-by-turn is left up to the stand-alone unit mounted on the windshield.The biggest hurdle to mass use of cell phone GPS devices is likely to be the simple fact that 3G coverage is going to be spotty for a long time to come.
Rural Oregon, Idaho, Nevada or Montana is not likely to have either wifi or 3G except along the main Interstate highways or in larger cities.
And the same will hold true for many other states.
Combine this with the handicap of the cell phone screen which is often too small to be seen when mounted 2 or 3 feet away on the dashboard or windshield and you will have people buying stand-alone GPS systems for a long time to come.But the market for the stand-alone units is likely to shrink.
Pedestrians or byclists who stay in town would take their cell phone anyway and having it track their rides or walks would make them unlikely to buy one of the Garmin wrist-mounted units.
And if I traveled to a large city on business I'd take my iPhone but probably not a GPS unit; the iPhone could do whatever I needed it to do with the likelihood of 3G coverage.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924951</id>
	<title>Some day</title>
	<author>Etherized</author>
	<datestamp>1256922300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's really no reason to have all of these different devices, when the functionality can be properly collapsed into one.</p><p>We're not there yet, and there will always be <i>some</i> standalone GPS devices for very specific purposes. But as the general purpose devices get smaller and better, the single-function units will gradually be relegated to the margins.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's really no reason to have all of these different devices , when the functionality can be properly collapsed into one.We 're not there yet , and there will always be some standalone GPS devices for very specific purposes .
But as the general purpose devices get smaller and better , the single-function units will gradually be relegated to the margins .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's really no reason to have all of these different devices, when the functionality can be properly collapsed into one.We're not there yet, and there will always be some standalone GPS devices for very specific purposes.
But as the general purpose devices get smaller and better, the single-function units will gradually be relegated to the margins.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29928199</id>
	<title>Re:Garmin Routing is Crap, Googles is Great</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256893560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ironically, on a recent trip Google maps wanted me to take a mule trail up a mountain while Garmin correctly made a route using the highway.</p><p>That is the only instance where I've seen Google mess up though.<br>As for the Garmin, you can specify the vehicle and road types that are preferred.<br>I've only had difficulty with the garmin in trying to route a detour around a  closed road while unfamiliar with the area.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ironically , on a recent trip Google maps wanted me to take a mule trail up a mountain while Garmin correctly made a route using the highway.That is the only instance where I 've seen Google mess up though.As for the Garmin , you can specify the vehicle and road types that are preferred.I 've only had difficulty with the garmin in trying to route a detour around a closed road while unfamiliar with the area .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ironically, on a recent trip Google maps wanted me to take a mule trail up a mountain while Garmin correctly made a route using the highway.That is the only instance where I've seen Google mess up though.As for the Garmin, you can specify the vehicle and road types that are preferred.I've only had difficulty with the garmin in trying to route a detour around a  closed road while unfamiliar with the area.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925219</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29929165</id>
	<title>No innovation = decreasing profits</title>
	<author>Gyorg\_Lavode</author>
	<datestamp>1256898600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Stand alone GPS's will always exist for those who use them outside of cities, however the GPS companies will continue to see their profits dwindle if they can't innovate.  My cell phone/GPS knows where I am, what direction I'm pointing and, with a camera, what I'm looking at.  Why can't it show the directions superimposed on the road?  Why can't they provide me any other speed or location based abilities?
<p>
The problem with GPSs is that they haven't done anything with them while google and cell phone developers are innovating at the speed of light.  The GPS manufacturers could just as easily turn a profit by selling apps (tomtom already does), but again, they'd have to compete with someone who is actually innovating.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Stand alone GPS 's will always exist for those who use them outside of cities , however the GPS companies will continue to see their profits dwindle if they ca n't innovate .
My cell phone/GPS knows where I am , what direction I 'm pointing and , with a camera , what I 'm looking at .
Why ca n't it show the directions superimposed on the road ?
Why ca n't they provide me any other speed or location based abilities ?
The problem with GPSs is that they have n't done anything with them while google and cell phone developers are innovating at the speed of light .
The GPS manufacturers could just as easily turn a profit by selling apps ( tomtom already does ) , but again , they 'd have to compete with someone who is actually innovating .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Stand alone GPS's will always exist for those who use them outside of cities, however the GPS companies will continue to see their profits dwindle if they can't innovate.
My cell phone/GPS knows where I am, what direction I'm pointing and, with a camera, what I'm looking at.
Why can't it show the directions superimposed on the road?
Why can't they provide me any other speed or location based abilities?
The problem with GPSs is that they haven't done anything with them while google and cell phone developers are innovating at the speed of light.
The GPS manufacturers could just as easily turn a profit by selling apps (tomtom already does), but again, they'd have to compete with someone who is actually innovating.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29930249</id>
	<title>Re:Needs internet connection</title>
	<author>StormCrow</author>
	<datestamp>1256905980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>They could be even lighter if they only had the on-board storage to hold the maps you need, as opposed to topographical maps of the entire western US, as well as road data and a bunch of other 'white pages' type junk.</p> </div><p>When a microSD card can hold all the map data you could possibly need, I really doubt that weight considerations are a reason to strip down the size of a mapping dataset anymore.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>They could be even lighter if they only had the on-board storage to hold the maps you need , as opposed to topographical maps of the entire western US , as well as road data and a bunch of other 'white pages ' type junk .
When a microSD card can hold all the map data you could possibly need , I really doubt that weight considerations are a reason to strip down the size of a mapping dataset anymore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They could be even lighter if they only had the on-board storage to hold the maps you need, as opposed to topographical maps of the entire western US, as well as road data and a bunch of other 'white pages' type junk.
When a microSD card can hold all the map data you could possibly need, I really doubt that weight considerations are a reason to strip down the size of a mapping dataset anymore.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924997</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924747</id>
	<title>Other applications</title>
	<author>MaerD</author>
	<datestamp>1256921580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>People tend to forget that gps has other applications outside of a car. Dedicated uses, such as air navigation, ship navigation, etc are unlikely to be replaced soon. And in those applications, Garmin pretty much is the standard (not to say there aren't others, but honestly, Garmin doesn't have much to worry about at this point).</htmltext>
<tokenext>People tend to forget that gps has other applications outside of a car .
Dedicated uses , such as air navigation , ship navigation , etc are unlikely to be replaced soon .
And in those applications , Garmin pretty much is the standard ( not to say there are n't others , but honestly , Garmin does n't have much to worry about at this point ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People tend to forget that gps has other applications outside of a car.
Dedicated uses, such as air navigation, ship navigation, etc are unlikely to be replaced soon.
And in those applications, Garmin pretty much is the standard (not to say there aren't others, but honestly, Garmin doesn't have much to worry about at this point).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926457</id>
	<title>Re:Android GPS - works for US only</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256928900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm in a similar situation at the moment - I regard my phone as a $5 "get yourself unlost" device, because that's how much it costs me to download a map's worth of image.  That's enough for what I'm doing - I've only used it that way twice, on my current trip - but if I were doing much more than that I'd want a standalone offline device.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm in a similar situation at the moment - I regard my phone as a $ 5 " get yourself unlost " device , because that 's how much it costs me to download a map 's worth of image .
That 's enough for what I 'm doing - I 've only used it that way twice , on my current trip - but if I were doing much more than that I 'd want a standalone offline device .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm in a similar situation at the moment - I regard my phone as a $5 "get yourself unlost" device, because that's how much it costs me to download a map's worth of image.
That's enough for what I'm doing - I've only used it that way twice, on my current trip - but if I were doing much more than that I'd want a standalone offline device.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924503</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924825</id>
	<title>DVDs</title>
	<author>wren337</author>
	<datestamp>1256921880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Remember when they added DVD drives to computers, and everyone stopped buying DVD players?  Good times.<br>I mean, why would anyone need both?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Remember when they added DVD drives to computers , and everyone stopped buying DVD players ?
Good times.I mean , why would anyone need both ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Remember when they added DVD drives to computers, and everyone stopped buying DVD players?
Good times.I mean, why would anyone need both?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924757</id>
	<title>Not the end, but the writing is on the wall</title>
	<author>drumcat</author>
	<datestamp>1256921580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>No one is saying GPS units are obsolete.  What this does say is that there will be a lot less margin in devices that are now one-trick ponies.</htmltext>
<tokenext>No one is saying GPS units are obsolete .
What this does say is that there will be a lot less margin in devices that are now one-trick ponies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No one is saying GPS units are obsolete.
What this does say is that there will be a lot less margin in devices that are now one-trick ponies.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926467</id>
	<title>Re:Garmin Routing is Crap, Googles is Great</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256928960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've observed the same thing.</p><p>Google has access to much better data, continually updated and not limited to the the memory you can cram into the device.  It can also throw a lot more compute power at each routing problem (and share results between users, reducing the cost).</p><p>But for that reason it has to remain on the server, and isn't nearly as convenient as having the out-of-date, less complete data right there on the device.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've observed the same thing.Google has access to much better data , continually updated and not limited to the the memory you can cram into the device .
It can also throw a lot more compute power at each routing problem ( and share results between users , reducing the cost ) .But for that reason it has to remain on the server , and is n't nearly as convenient as having the out-of-date , less complete data right there on the device .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've observed the same thing.Google has access to much better data, continually updated and not limited to the the memory you can cram into the device.
It can also throw a lot more compute power at each routing problem (and share results between users, reducing the cost).But for that reason it has to remain on the server, and isn't nearly as convenient as having the out-of-date, less complete data right there on the device.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925219</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925781</id>
	<title>Take a break, go sailing</title>
	<author>watergeus</author>
	<datestamp>1256925720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>to discover the real meaning of a GPS.</p><p>Having a night watch, stormy weather.<br>See the ETA going up from 40 hours to eternity,<br>Like in the old days with modems and file-transfer.</p><p>Take a sextant and paper-charts as back-up with you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>to discover the real meaning of a GPS.Having a night watch , stormy weather.See the ETA going up from 40 hours to eternity,Like in the old days with modems and file-transfer.Take a sextant and paper-charts as back-up with you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>to discover the real meaning of a GPS.Having a night watch, stormy weather.See the ETA going up from 40 hours to eternity,Like in the old days with modems and file-transfer.Take a sextant and paper-charts as back-up with you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924849</id>
	<title>Re:Android GPS - works for US only</title>
	<author>slim</author>
	<datestamp>1256921940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If like me, you live in a small European country, where within the country there is practically no need for the GPS because you know most of the country by heart.</p></div><p>How small? Monaco?</p><p>There are two situations where I feel GPS is useful for driving:</p><p>
&nbsp; 1. For the last few miles of your journey to an unfamiliar town. I can easily find my way from London to Manchester without GPS. Sat Nav is a big help finding my way to a specific street address once I'm there.</p><p>
&nbsp; 2. For finding back-roads, when the route you know is blocked. There's really only one 'A' road leading from my parent's home in West Wales, to the Midlands. When a motorbike accident caused the police to close it for several hours, satnav was able to guide me over the hills on single-track unpaved roads, around the blockage.</p><p>I really can't think of a European country small enough that you could know it well enough to avoid these benefits.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If like me , you live in a small European country , where within the country there is practically no need for the GPS because you know most of the country by heart.How small ?
Monaco ? There are two situations where I feel GPS is useful for driving :   1 .
For the last few miles of your journey to an unfamiliar town .
I can easily find my way from London to Manchester without GPS .
Sat Nav is a big help finding my way to a specific street address once I 'm there .
  2 .
For finding back-roads , when the route you know is blocked .
There 's really only one 'A ' road leading from my parent 's home in West Wales , to the Midlands .
When a motorbike accident caused the police to close it for several hours , satnav was able to guide me over the hills on single-track unpaved roads , around the blockage.I really ca n't think of a European country small enough that you could know it well enough to avoid these benefits .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If like me, you live in a small European country, where within the country there is practically no need for the GPS because you know most of the country by heart.How small?
Monaco?There are two situations where I feel GPS is useful for driving:
  1.
For the last few miles of your journey to an unfamiliar town.
I can easily find my way from London to Manchester without GPS.
Sat Nav is a big help finding my way to a specific street address once I'm there.
  2.
For finding back-roads, when the route you know is blocked.
There's really only one 'A' road leading from my parent's home in West Wales, to the Midlands.
When a motorbike accident caused the police to close it for several hours, satnav was able to guide me over the hills on single-track unpaved roads, around the blockage.I really can't think of a European country small enough that you could know it well enough to avoid these benefits.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924503</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924425</id>
	<title>Not yet</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256920260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I didn't read the article, of course, but right away my first thought is trying to use the GPS and be on the phone at the same time would be a problem in an all-in-one style device.  Of course you shouldn't be on the phone (technically, perhaps), but we do it anyways.  At least I do.  I won't speak for the rest of you since I know at least one person will say that of course they never do and I'm evil for doing it.  But I know I've used my GPS and phone at the same time in general, let alone finding some difficult place that isn't fully locatable in GPS.  Back roads, unlisted roads, mismatched turns, etc.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I did n't read the article , of course , but right away my first thought is trying to use the GPS and be on the phone at the same time would be a problem in an all-in-one style device .
Of course you should n't be on the phone ( technically , perhaps ) , but we do it anyways .
At least I do .
I wo n't speak for the rest of you since I know at least one person will say that of course they never do and I 'm evil for doing it .
But I know I 've used my GPS and phone at the same time in general , let alone finding some difficult place that is n't fully locatable in GPS .
Back roads , unlisted roads , mismatched turns , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I didn't read the article, of course, but right away my first thought is trying to use the GPS and be on the phone at the same time would be a problem in an all-in-one style device.
Of course you shouldn't be on the phone (technically, perhaps), but we do it anyways.
At least I do.
I won't speak for the rest of you since I know at least one person will say that of course they never do and I'm evil for doing it.
But I know I've used my GPS and phone at the same time in general, let alone finding some difficult place that isn't fully locatable in GPS.
Back roads, unlisted roads, mismatched turns, etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29938577</id>
	<title>VZ Navigator</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257000120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>     I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the likes of VZNavigator.  Basically, "No, Android won't kill standalone GPS", because VZNavigator and equivalents from AT&amp;T, Sprint, US Cellular, etc. have been around for several years.  They have not displaced stand-alone GPSes.  If having a nice navigator on any old cheap phone hasn't displaced standalone GPS, then having a navigator that only runs on an expensive smartphone surely won't.  Note, I've used VZNav, I think the TomTom's a little nicer but both are actually quite nice.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The one complaint, VZNavigator relies on having phone coverage.  Both for map data and to get a GPS fix.  The Droid at least has unrestricted standalone GPS, but it still couldn't get a map without data coverage.  If I relied on GSM (EDGE and especially HSDPA "3G") then I would be very worried by this.  Verizon has excellent EVDO "3G" coverage though, I've been relatively few areas without 3G now, and VERY VERY few that don't at least have 1X.  1X loads the maps a little slower but IS enough for the navigator to do it's thing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm surprised nobody 's mentioned the likes of VZNavigator .
Basically , " No , Android wo n't kill standalone GPS " , because VZNavigator and equivalents from AT&amp;T , Sprint , US Cellular , etc .
have been around for several years .
They have not displaced stand-alone GPSes .
If having a nice navigator on any old cheap phone has n't displaced standalone GPS , then having a navigator that only runs on an expensive smartphone surely wo n't .
Note , I 've used VZNav , I think the TomTom 's a little nicer but both are actually quite nice .
          The one complaint , VZNavigator relies on having phone coverage .
Both for map data and to get a GPS fix .
The Droid at least has unrestricted standalone GPS , but it still could n't get a map without data coverage .
If I relied on GSM ( EDGE and especially HSDPA " 3G " ) then I would be very worried by this .
Verizon has excellent EVDO " 3G " coverage though , I 've been relatively few areas without 3G now , and VERY VERY few that do n't at least have 1X .
1X loads the maps a little slower but IS enough for the navigator to do it 's thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>     I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the likes of VZNavigator.
Basically, "No, Android won't kill standalone GPS", because VZNavigator and equivalents from AT&amp;T, Sprint, US Cellular, etc.
have been around for several years.
They have not displaced stand-alone GPSes.
If having a nice navigator on any old cheap phone hasn't displaced standalone GPS, then having a navigator that only runs on an expensive smartphone surely won't.
Note, I've used VZNav, I think the TomTom's a little nicer but both are actually quite nice.
          The one complaint, VZNavigator relies on having phone coverage.
Both for map data and to get a GPS fix.
The Droid at least has unrestricted standalone GPS, but it still couldn't get a map without data coverage.
If I relied on GSM (EDGE and especially HSDPA "3G") then I would be very worried by this.
Verizon has excellent EVDO "3G" coverage though, I've been relatively few areas without 3G now, and VERY VERY few that don't at least have 1X.
1X loads the maps a little slower but IS enough for the navigator to do it's thing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925635</id>
	<title>Re:Walmart, I mean Google Strikes Again!</title>
	<author>R2.0</author>
	<datestamp>1256924940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"In the same way that Walmart comes into a town and destroys local businesses, Google can enter into an industry/sector and destroy most of the competition overnight by giving an application away for free. Who is going to pay $100 for a Maps Application now (or more for a hardware device) when they can just download one for free.</p><p>Isn't this the same type of stuff we accused Microsoft of doing years ago? Yup, Walmart, I mean Google strikes again. Pray whatever industry you're in Google doesn't decide to suddenly release a free product."</p><p>Yeah, and then they jack up prices once the competition is gone!</p><p>Wait - they don't do that?  They keep their prices low?  Well, wtf?</p><p>There are plenty of reasons to dislike Walmart, but the "destroy competition" is the weakest one.  The reason that is generally viewed as bad is that it has historically led to price increases, but that hasn't yet happened with Walmart.  Same as Google.</p><p>The difference between them and MS is that, once MS had wiped out Netscape, it could divert resources away from browser development, and left us with IE6 for years.  The consumer did not benefit.  One might argue that the Wal-Mart/Google model is bad on a macroeconomic scale, but certainly not at the consumer level.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" In the same way that Walmart comes into a town and destroys local businesses , Google can enter into an industry/sector and destroy most of the competition overnight by giving an application away for free .
Who is going to pay $ 100 for a Maps Application now ( or more for a hardware device ) when they can just download one for free.Is n't this the same type of stuff we accused Microsoft of doing years ago ?
Yup , Walmart , I mean Google strikes again .
Pray whatever industry you 're in Google does n't decide to suddenly release a free product .
" Yeah , and then they jack up prices once the competition is gone ! Wait - they do n't do that ?
They keep their prices low ?
Well , wtf ? There are plenty of reasons to dislike Walmart , but the " destroy competition " is the weakest one .
The reason that is generally viewed as bad is that it has historically led to price increases , but that has n't yet happened with Walmart .
Same as Google.The difference between them and MS is that , once MS had wiped out Netscape , it could divert resources away from browser development , and left us with IE6 for years .
The consumer did not benefit .
One might argue that the Wal-Mart/Google model is bad on a macroeconomic scale , but certainly not at the consumer level .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"In the same way that Walmart comes into a town and destroys local businesses, Google can enter into an industry/sector and destroy most of the competition overnight by giving an application away for free.
Who is going to pay $100 for a Maps Application now (or more for a hardware device) when they can just download one for free.Isn't this the same type of stuff we accused Microsoft of doing years ago?
Yup, Walmart, I mean Google strikes again.
Pray whatever industry you're in Google doesn't decide to suddenly release a free product.
"Yeah, and then they jack up prices once the competition is gone!Wait - they don't do that?
They keep their prices low?
Well, wtf?There are plenty of reasons to dislike Walmart, but the "destroy competition" is the weakest one.
The reason that is generally viewed as bad is that it has historically led to price increases, but that hasn't yet happened with Walmart.
Same as Google.The difference between them and MS is that, once MS had wiped out Netscape, it could divert resources away from browser development, and left us with IE6 for years.
The consumer did not benefit.
One might argue that the Wal-Mart/Google model is bad on a macroeconomic scale, but certainly not at the consumer level.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924673</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924997</id>
	<title>Re:Needs internet connection</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256922480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Standalone units are great for camping and hiking in areas with no cell phone single.  They are dedicated to one thing, so if you only need one thing you can save a lot of hardware space and battery life by having it do just the one thing.  They could be even lighter if they only had the on-board storage to hold the maps you need, as opposed to topographical maps of the entire western US, as well as road data and a bunch of other 'white pages' type junk.  Also, if you are out in the back woods and your GPS dies because it's wasting it's battery looking for a cell phone signal that is nonexistent you are kinda stuck.  (You should always carry a map and a compass, gps isn't the answer for everything).  So, yeah, I doubt standalone units are going to die out any time soon.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Standalone units are great for camping and hiking in areas with no cell phone single .
They are dedicated to one thing , so if you only need one thing you can save a lot of hardware space and battery life by having it do just the one thing .
They could be even lighter if they only had the on-board storage to hold the maps you need , as opposed to topographical maps of the entire western US , as well as road data and a bunch of other 'white pages ' type junk .
Also , if you are out in the back woods and your GPS dies because it 's wasting it 's battery looking for a cell phone signal that is nonexistent you are kinda stuck .
( You should always carry a map and a compass , gps is n't the answer for everything ) .
So , yeah , I doubt standalone units are going to die out any time soon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Standalone units are great for camping and hiking in areas with no cell phone single.
They are dedicated to one thing, so if you only need one thing you can save a lot of hardware space and battery life by having it do just the one thing.
They could be even lighter if they only had the on-board storage to hold the maps you need, as opposed to topographical maps of the entire western US, as well as road data and a bunch of other 'white pages' type junk.
Also, if you are out in the back woods and your GPS dies because it's wasting it's battery looking for a cell phone signal that is nonexistent you are kinda stuck.
(You should always carry a map and a compass, gps isn't the answer for everything).
So, yeah, I doubt standalone units are going to die out any time soon.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924375</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29930835</id>
	<title>Re:No.</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1256909700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>OK, I just got a Magellan 4210 for $99 (cash impulse buy, not a bad price for what it is) and it came with 2007 maps so I ordered 2009 "on sale" for fifty bucks. I will guess that somewhere in 2H or perhaps Q4 2010 that the 2010 mapset will become available for the same price. It comes on SD card and I got it with free shipping so I figure I'm a winner. Anyway, I got exactly what I want (except it would be nice to be able to use it while it is charging from PC) in terms of form factor and feature set and I could elect to just skip map updating until 2011 if I liked, and pay that much less.</p><p>Google would be appealing if I could use Earth anywhere, even in a limited kind of "you are [near] here" mode. Maps with navigation is interesting but insufficient.</p><p>The really cool part about standalone GPS is that you can choose to stop updating, and just choose to start again. You can resell the unit with whatever map set is on it for whatever the unit is worth with that particular map set, and it's not dependent on a contract. This real resale value is, uh, valuable<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>OK , I just got a Magellan 4210 for $ 99 ( cash impulse buy , not a bad price for what it is ) and it came with 2007 maps so I ordered 2009 " on sale " for fifty bucks .
I will guess that somewhere in 2H or perhaps Q4 2010 that the 2010 mapset will become available for the same price .
It comes on SD card and I got it with free shipping so I figure I 'm a winner .
Anyway , I got exactly what I want ( except it would be nice to be able to use it while it is charging from PC ) in terms of form factor and feature set and I could elect to just skip map updating until 2011 if I liked , and pay that much less.Google would be appealing if I could use Earth anywhere , even in a limited kind of " you are [ near ] here " mode .
Maps with navigation is interesting but insufficient.The really cool part about standalone GPS is that you can choose to stop updating , and just choose to start again .
You can resell the unit with whatever map set is on it for whatever the unit is worth with that particular map set , and it 's not dependent on a contract .
This real resale value is , uh , valuable ; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OK, I just got a Magellan 4210 for $99 (cash impulse buy, not a bad price for what it is) and it came with 2007 maps so I ordered 2009 "on sale" for fifty bucks.
I will guess that somewhere in 2H or perhaps Q4 2010 that the 2010 mapset will become available for the same price.
It comes on SD card and I got it with free shipping so I figure I'm a winner.
Anyway, I got exactly what I want (except it would be nice to be able to use it while it is charging from PC) in terms of form factor and feature set and I could elect to just skip map updating until 2011 if I liked, and pay that much less.Google would be appealing if I could use Earth anywhere, even in a limited kind of "you are [near] here" mode.
Maps with navigation is interesting but insufficient.The really cool part about standalone GPS is that you can choose to stop updating, and just choose to start again.
You can resell the unit with whatever map set is on it for whatever the unit is worth with that particular map set, and it's not dependent on a contract.
This real resale value is, uh, valuable ;)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926915</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925623</id>
	<title>Re:Android GPS - works for US only</title>
	<author>cylcyl</author>
	<datestamp>1256924940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or you can rent a car which has one?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or you can rent a car which has one ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or you can rent a car which has one?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924503</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925553</id>
	<title>Fine when you're near civilisation I suppose</title>
	<author>FridgeFreezer</author>
	<datestamp>1256924640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>But we go to places where there is no signal. Not just no cell signal, but no TV or FM radio, nothing. In the woods, in RF-unfriendly geographies, even SiRF-III GPS can struggle to get a lock.

Also - what about planes &amp; boats? No GSM base stations at sea, well, not without a dedicated satellite uplink. What about military apps where a mobile phone could easily be detected &amp; targetted by the enemy?</htmltext>
<tokenext>But we go to places where there is no signal .
Not just no cell signal , but no TV or FM radio , nothing .
In the woods , in RF-unfriendly geographies , even SiRF-III GPS can struggle to get a lock .
Also - what about planes &amp; boats ?
No GSM base stations at sea , well , not without a dedicated satellite uplink .
What about military apps where a mobile phone could easily be detected &amp; targetted by the enemy ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But we go to places where there is no signal.
Not just no cell signal, but no TV or FM radio, nothing.
In the woods, in RF-unfriendly geographies, even SiRF-III GPS can struggle to get a lock.
Also - what about planes &amp; boats?
No GSM base stations at sea, well, not without a dedicated satellite uplink.
What about military apps where a mobile phone could easily be detected &amp; targetted by the enemy?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925929</id>
	<title>Re:Not yet</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256926500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I didn't read the article, of course, but right away my first thought is trying to use the GPS and be on the phone at the same time would be a problem in an all-in-one style device.  Of course you shouldn't be on the phone (technically, perhaps), but we do it anyways.  At least I do.  I won't speak for the rest of you since I know at least one person will say that of course they never do and I'm evil for doing it.  But I know I've used my GPS and phone at the same time in general, let alone finding some difficult place that isn't fully locatable in GPS.  Back roads, unlisted roads, mismatched turns, etc.</p></div><p>Why shouldn't I be on the phone? Why have it then? Are you assuming the only time I would use a GPS is if I'm driving?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I did n't read the article , of course , but right away my first thought is trying to use the GPS and be on the phone at the same time would be a problem in an all-in-one style device .
Of course you should n't be on the phone ( technically , perhaps ) , but we do it anyways .
At least I do .
I wo n't speak for the rest of you since I know at least one person will say that of course they never do and I 'm evil for doing it .
But I know I 've used my GPS and phone at the same time in general , let alone finding some difficult place that is n't fully locatable in GPS .
Back roads , unlisted roads , mismatched turns , etc.Why should n't I be on the phone ?
Why have it then ?
Are you assuming the only time I would use a GPS is if I 'm driving ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I didn't read the article, of course, but right away my first thought is trying to use the GPS and be on the phone at the same time would be a problem in an all-in-one style device.
Of course you shouldn't be on the phone (technically, perhaps), but we do it anyways.
At least I do.
I won't speak for the rest of you since I know at least one person will say that of course they never do and I'm evil for doing it.
But I know I've used my GPS and phone at the same time in general, let alone finding some difficult place that isn't fully locatable in GPS.
Back roads, unlisted roads, mismatched turns, etc.Why shouldn't I be on the phone?
Why have it then?
Are you assuming the only time I would use a GPS is if I'm driving?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924425</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926805</id>
	<title>Re:No.</title>
	<author>Threni</author>
	<datestamp>1256930280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>4) too complicated.  People who spend a lot of time using computers always forget the basics.  Non-geeks want stuff that works.  They want to turn it on, with an on button, and see where they are on a map, then press a button or two to enter a postcode or whatever and see a route.</p><p>Using google maps (for example) - well<nobr> <wbr></nobr>,first you have to somehow find the app and load it.  You have to wait 30 seconds (on my htc touch diamond) for it to find the gps satellites (if you're lucky - you can speed that up by running another application to download satellite data which, if you're lucky, works).  Oh, and you'd better stand outside for that - it's not going to work indoors (unlike dedicated satnavs) unless you live in a tent.  Then you have to use crap-internet speeds to load (if you're lucky) map data onto your phone, deal with the interface (nowhere near as simple to use as dedicated satnav).    All this stuff is fine if you have patience, already have the phone, don't want to pay for satnav hardware etc.  But for people (like my parents) who want to get from a to b then dicking about with all this crap is just a joke they're not going to entertain.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>4 ) too complicated .
People who spend a lot of time using computers always forget the basics .
Non-geeks want stuff that works .
They want to turn it on , with an on button , and see where they are on a map , then press a button or two to enter a postcode or whatever and see a route.Using google maps ( for example ) - well ,first you have to somehow find the app and load it .
You have to wait 30 seconds ( on my htc touch diamond ) for it to find the gps satellites ( if you 're lucky - you can speed that up by running another application to download satellite data which , if you 're lucky , works ) .
Oh , and you 'd better stand outside for that - it 's not going to work indoors ( unlike dedicated satnavs ) unless you live in a tent .
Then you have to use crap-internet speeds to load ( if you 're lucky ) map data onto your phone , deal with the interface ( nowhere near as simple to use as dedicated satnav ) .
All this stuff is fine if you have patience , already have the phone , do n't want to pay for satnav hardware etc .
But for people ( like my parents ) who want to get from a to b then dicking about with all this crap is just a joke they 're not going to entertain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>4) too complicated.
People who spend a lot of time using computers always forget the basics.
Non-geeks want stuff that works.
They want to turn it on, with an on button, and see where they are on a map, then press a button or two to enter a postcode or whatever and see a route.Using google maps (for example) - well ,first you have to somehow find the app and load it.
You have to wait 30 seconds (on my htc touch diamond) for it to find the gps satellites (if you're lucky - you can speed that up by running another application to download satellite data which, if you're lucky, works).
Oh, and you'd better stand outside for that - it's not going to work indoors (unlike dedicated satnavs) unless you live in a tent.
Then you have to use crap-internet speeds to load (if you're lucky) map data onto your phone, deal with the interface (nowhere near as simple to use as dedicated satnav).
All this stuff is fine if you have patience, already have the phone, don't want to pay for satnav hardware etc.
But for people (like my parents) who want to get from a to b then dicking about with all this crap is just a joke they're not going to entertain.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925153</id>
	<title>Re:Hard to monetize a free service</title>
	<author>Andy Dodd</author>
	<datestamp>1256923020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>GPS is a free service.  You can get GPS receivers dirt cheap (hey, while the signals are free, receiver hardware still costs a little money), but all they tell you is your latitude/longitude.</p><p>Knowing your lat/long is honestly not that useful unless you have data to reference it against.  Useful cartographic data costs money.</p><p>USGS maps don't provide routing info.<br>The US Census Bureau TIGER database has streets but not turn restriction info and severe accuracy problems in some areas.</p><p>So when you pay for GPS "services" from most providers, what you are paying for is a mapping/routing solution and access to an accurate dataset that allows for mapping/routing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>GPS is a free service .
You can get GPS receivers dirt cheap ( hey , while the signals are free , receiver hardware still costs a little money ) , but all they tell you is your latitude/longitude.Knowing your lat/long is honestly not that useful unless you have data to reference it against .
Useful cartographic data costs money.USGS maps do n't provide routing info.The US Census Bureau TIGER database has streets but not turn restriction info and severe accuracy problems in some areas.So when you pay for GPS " services " from most providers , what you are paying for is a mapping/routing solution and access to an accurate dataset that allows for mapping/routing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>GPS is a free service.
You can get GPS receivers dirt cheap (hey, while the signals are free, receiver hardware still costs a little money), but all they tell you is your latitude/longitude.Knowing your lat/long is honestly not that useful unless you have data to reference it against.
Useful cartographic data costs money.USGS maps don't provide routing info.The US Census Bureau TIGER database has streets but not turn restriction info and severe accuracy problems in some areas.So when you pay for GPS "services" from most providers, what you are paying for is a mapping/routing solution and access to an accurate dataset that allows for mapping/routing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924393</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924773</id>
	<title>Another reason I doubt this will happen</title>
	<author>sean.peters</author>
	<datestamp>1256921700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Others have commented on issues like lack of ruggedization and local caching of maps (at least for some device/software combinations), and display size and mountability to stuff like mountain bikes. Another reason why dedicated GPS devices probably aren't going away any time soon: quality of the GPS receiver itself. The GPS receiver built into the iPhone, at least, is sort of weak sauce. While it works well enough in a car, if you get any kind of overhead obstruction at all (even a few tree branches, for example), the signal quickly drops to essentially nothing. This is why TomTom felt the need to offer an external GPS receiver as part of their iPhone car kit.</p><p>Don't get me wrong, I really like the GPS built into my iPhone, and frequently find it useful... but it's far from a complete replacement for a standalone device.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Others have commented on issues like lack of ruggedization and local caching of maps ( at least for some device/software combinations ) , and display size and mountability to stuff like mountain bikes .
Another reason why dedicated GPS devices probably are n't going away any time soon : quality of the GPS receiver itself .
The GPS receiver built into the iPhone , at least , is sort of weak sauce .
While it works well enough in a car , if you get any kind of overhead obstruction at all ( even a few tree branches , for example ) , the signal quickly drops to essentially nothing .
This is why TomTom felt the need to offer an external GPS receiver as part of their iPhone car kit.Do n't get me wrong , I really like the GPS built into my iPhone , and frequently find it useful... but it 's far from a complete replacement for a standalone device .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Others have commented on issues like lack of ruggedization and local caching of maps (at least for some device/software combinations), and display size and mountability to stuff like mountain bikes.
Another reason why dedicated GPS devices probably aren't going away any time soon: quality of the GPS receiver itself.
The GPS receiver built into the iPhone, at least, is sort of weak sauce.
While it works well enough in a car, if you get any kind of overhead obstruction at all (even a few tree branches, for example), the signal quickly drops to essentially nothing.
This is why TomTom felt the need to offer an external GPS receiver as part of their iPhone car kit.Don't get me wrong, I really like the GPS built into my iPhone, and frequently find it useful... but it's far from a complete replacement for a standalone device.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926027</id>
	<title>Re:Walmart, I mean Google Strikes Again!</title>
	<author>gr8\_phk</author>
	<datestamp>1256926920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Who is going to pay $100 for a Maps Application now (or more for a hardware device) when they can just download one for free.</p></div></blockquote><p>
You've been able to do that for years now.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Who is going to pay $ 100 for a Maps Application now ( or more for a hardware device ) when they can just download one for free .
You 've been able to do that for years now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who is going to pay $100 for a Maps Application now (or more for a hardware device) when they can just download one for free.
You've been able to do that for years now.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924673</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924935</id>
	<title>Re:No.</title>
	<author>nmos</author>
	<datestamp>1256922240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>1) It doesn't work EVERYWHERE. I'm not talking about everywhere with a wireless signal. I'm talking about EVERYWHERE.</p></div></blockquote><p>I don't think that'll be a limitation for long.  Some smart phones already have real GPS chips rather that just AGPS and there is no reason they couldn't store maps locally.  I think the Droid already pre-caches maps along any route you select so it shouldn't be hard to extend that functionality a bit.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>1 ) It does n't work EVERYWHERE .
I 'm not talking about everywhere with a wireless signal .
I 'm talking about EVERYWHERE.I do n't think that 'll be a limitation for long .
Some smart phones already have real GPS chips rather that just AGPS and there is no reason they could n't store maps locally .
I think the Droid already pre-caches maps along any route you select so it should n't be hard to extend that functionality a bit .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>1) It doesn't work EVERYWHERE.
I'm not talking about everywhere with a wireless signal.
I'm talking about EVERYWHERE.I don't think that'll be a limitation for long.
Some smart phones already have real GPS chips rather that just AGPS and there is no reason they couldn't store maps locally.
I think the Droid already pre-caches maps along any route you select so it shouldn't be hard to extend that functionality a bit.
 
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925485</id>
	<title>Re:No.</title>
	<author>jfanning</author>
	<datestamp>1256924280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Uh, AGPS is real GPS. The A stands for Assisted. It just provides a faster method for figuring out which satellites are up, but otherwise it is exactly the same as any other GPS.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Uh , AGPS is real GPS .
The A stands for Assisted .
It just provides a faster method for figuring out which satellites are up , but otherwise it is exactly the same as any other GPS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Uh, AGPS is real GPS.
The A stands for Assisted.
It just provides a faster method for figuring out which satellites are up, but otherwise it is exactly the same as any other GPS.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924935</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926197</id>
	<title>Re:Missing Factor...</title>
	<author>TheTrollToll</author>
	<datestamp>1256927820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>So much of this speculation is pointless, because you can bet that Verizon will do what it takes to kill free GPS on their android.  I have never seen a company try to squeeze so much out of their customers by locking down standard products. I joined them because my family did but i am having serious regrets now.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So much of this speculation is pointless , because you can bet that Verizon will do what it takes to kill free GPS on their android .
I have never seen a company try to squeeze so much out of their customers by locking down standard products .
I joined them because my family did but i am having serious regrets now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So much of this speculation is pointless, because you can bet that Verizon will do what it takes to kill free GPS on their android.
I have never seen a company try to squeeze so much out of their customers by locking down standard products.
I joined them because my family did but i am having serious regrets now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924445</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925119</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>Christophotron</author>
	<datestamp>1256922900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sprint did this before Google did.  If you purchased any smartphone recently from Sprint, (i.e. Touch Pro 2 or Palm Pre), then you already have Sprint Navigation on your phone.  It has no additional fees, provides turn-by-turn navigation with text-to-speech (reads the street names to you), and requires an internet connection.  I'm sure this didn't have much of an impact on standalone GPS and neither will Google Maps Nav.</p><p>They both have the fundamental limitation that they require an active internet connection.  If you are out in the boonies somewhere and cannot get a cell signal then you have no navigation ability.  You will still need a standalone GPS or a Garmin or TomTom app for your phone that stores the maps on the memory of the device.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sprint did this before Google did .
If you purchased any smartphone recently from Sprint , ( i.e .
Touch Pro 2 or Palm Pre ) , then you already have Sprint Navigation on your phone .
It has no additional fees , provides turn-by-turn navigation with text-to-speech ( reads the street names to you ) , and requires an internet connection .
I 'm sure this did n't have much of an impact on standalone GPS and neither will Google Maps Nav.They both have the fundamental limitation that they require an active internet connection .
If you are out in the boonies somewhere and can not get a cell signal then you have no navigation ability .
You will still need a standalone GPS or a Garmin or TomTom app for your phone that stores the maps on the memory of the device .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sprint did this before Google did.
If you purchased any smartphone recently from Sprint, (i.e.
Touch Pro 2 or Palm Pre), then you already have Sprint Navigation on your phone.
It has no additional fees, provides turn-by-turn navigation with text-to-speech (reads the street names to you), and requires an internet connection.
I'm sure this didn't have much of an impact on standalone GPS and neither will Google Maps Nav.They both have the fundamental limitation that they require an active internet connection.
If you are out in the boonies somewhere and cannot get a cell signal then you have no navigation ability.
You will still need a standalone GPS or a Garmin or TomTom app for your phone that stores the maps on the memory of the device.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924315</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926519</id>
	<title>Re:Needs internet connection</title>
	<author>thePowerOfGrayskull</author>
	<datestamp>1256929140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's modded troll because the truth is that while all maps are not stored on the unit, maps for the current route are cached locally.  As long as you have service when you start driving and you don't go too far out of your way, you'll be fine.</p></div><p>Except that's not <a href="http://google.com/support/mobile/bin/answer.py?hl=en&amp;answer=39890" title="google.com">what google says</a> [google.com]:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Google Maps for mobile requires an active data connection at all times. Before you download it, we recommend that you contact your mobile service provider to find out more about the data plans it offers. An unlimited data plan is strongly recommended as continuous Maps usage will use a lot of data.</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's modded troll because the truth is that while all maps are not stored on the unit , maps for the current route are cached locally .
As long as you have service when you start driving and you do n't go too far out of your way , you 'll be fine.Except that 's not what google says [ google.com ] : Google Maps for mobile requires an active data connection at all times .
Before you download it , we recommend that you contact your mobile service provider to find out more about the data plans it offers .
An unlimited data plan is strongly recommended as continuous Maps usage will use a lot of data .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's modded troll because the truth is that while all maps are not stored on the unit, maps for the current route are cached locally.
As long as you have service when you start driving and you don't go too far out of your way, you'll be fine.Except that's not what google says [google.com]:Google Maps for mobile requires an active data connection at all times.
Before you download it, we recommend that you contact your mobile service provider to find out more about the data plans it offers.
An unlimited data plan is strongly recommended as continuous Maps usage will use a lot of data.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924603</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29927639</id>
	<title>Re:Garmin Routing is Crap, Googles is Great</title>
	<author>Rolgar</author>
	<datestamp>1256934180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In eastern Kansas (and I assume other rural areas), Google is terrible about estimating the best route because if you are on a good non-interstate road, it seems to significantly underestimate the road speed.  For instance, on <a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&amp;source=s\_d&amp;saddr=St.+Marys,+KS&amp;daddr=Seneca,+KS&amp;hl=en&amp;geocode=&amp;mra=ls&amp;sll=39.070379,-95.73967&amp;sspn=0.41368,0.617294&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;t=h&amp;z=10" title="google.com">this</a> [google.com] route, the speed is 60 miles per hour, but Google estimates that the 45 mile (50 minute) drive takes 75 minutes.  I've seen this on almost every rural road with a speed of 50-60 miles per hour where the road is not an interstate.  Maybe I need to report the correct speeds to Google to get them to update my local roads, but I haven't taken the time to record and report them to see if it will make a difference.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In eastern Kansas ( and I assume other rural areas ) , Google is terrible about estimating the best route because if you are on a good non-interstate road , it seems to significantly underestimate the road speed .
For instance , on this [ google.com ] route , the speed is 60 miles per hour , but Google estimates that the 45 mile ( 50 minute ) drive takes 75 minutes .
I 've seen this on almost every rural road with a speed of 50-60 miles per hour where the road is not an interstate .
Maybe I need to report the correct speeds to Google to get them to update my local roads , but I have n't taken the time to record and report them to see if it will make a difference .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In eastern Kansas (and I assume other rural areas), Google is terrible about estimating the best route because if you are on a good non-interstate road, it seems to significantly underestimate the road speed.
For instance, on this [google.com] route, the speed is 60 miles per hour, but Google estimates that the 45 mile (50 minute) drive takes 75 minutes.
I've seen this on almost every rural road with a speed of 50-60 miles per hour where the road is not an interstate.
Maybe I need to report the correct speeds to Google to get them to update my local roads, but I haven't taken the time to record and report them to see if it will make a difference.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925219</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926515</id>
	<title>Re:No.</title>
	<author>nightfire-unique</author>
	<datestamp>1256929140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr><i>...and that was user error (Grand Canyon Park is NOT the same as "<b>Grand Canyon</b>", the geographic center. Though it was an interesting drive into nothing).</i> </p><p>Oh dear!  I certainly hope you don't mean <i>nothing</i> as in <i>"OH MY GOD!  WHERE DID THE GROUND GO?!"</i> </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...and that was user error ( Grand Canyon Park is NOT the same as " Grand Canyon " , the geographic center .
Though it was an interesting drive into nothing ) .
Oh dear !
I certainly hope you do n't mean nothing as in " OH MY GOD !
WHERE DID THE GROUND GO ? !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ...and that was user error (Grand Canyon Park is NOT the same as "Grand Canyon", the geographic center.
Though it was an interesting drive into nothing).
Oh dear!
I certainly hope you don't mean nothing as in "OH MY GOD!
WHERE DID THE GROUND GO?!
" </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925129</id>
	<title>Screen size</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256922960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Two things are going on here.  First, the availability of "free" navigation hardware/software will inevitably cut into the profit margins of Garmin and Tomtom (perhaps less in the "driving directions" market and more in the "walking around" market).  Second, there is no way that cell phones can completely replace standalone GPS devices purely due to screen size issues.
<br> <br>
My Garman Nuvi has a screen that is a lot larger than my Blackberry Storm.  I would NOT want my storm to have a screen as large as my Nuvi because I want my smartphone to fit in my pocket.  However, where smartphones really do threaten a company like Garmin is in the GPS device market that covers outdoors enthusiasts.  For waypoint tracking, navigation, etc while hiking I've been able to get my Storm to work really well with Trekbuddy.  It isn't an idea solution because my Storm isn't waterproof or dustproof.  But I put it in a plastic baggie and that works just fine...no need to buy a $350 device from Garmin to do the same thing.
<br> <br>
Overall it is true that this isn't good for standalone GPS makers because the competition is increasing.  The demand for GPS enabled devices is increasing but the problem for Garmin is that every smartphone now has a GPS receiver built in.  That offers a lot of flexibility to developers that isn't there on the standalone devices.  Google is showing us the implications of this by developing an app that, almost overnight, offers a "free" alternative to a standalone.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Two things are going on here .
First , the availability of " free " navigation hardware/software will inevitably cut into the profit margins of Garmin and Tomtom ( perhaps less in the " driving directions " market and more in the " walking around " market ) .
Second , there is no way that cell phones can completely replace standalone GPS devices purely due to screen size issues .
My Garman Nuvi has a screen that is a lot larger than my Blackberry Storm .
I would NOT want my storm to have a screen as large as my Nuvi because I want my smartphone to fit in my pocket .
However , where smartphones really do threaten a company like Garmin is in the GPS device market that covers outdoors enthusiasts .
For waypoint tracking , navigation , etc while hiking I 've been able to get my Storm to work really well with Trekbuddy .
It is n't an idea solution because my Storm is n't waterproof or dustproof .
But I put it in a plastic baggie and that works just fine...no need to buy a $ 350 device from Garmin to do the same thing .
Overall it is true that this is n't good for standalone GPS makers because the competition is increasing .
The demand for GPS enabled devices is increasing but the problem for Garmin is that every smartphone now has a GPS receiver built in .
That offers a lot of flexibility to developers that is n't there on the standalone devices .
Google is showing us the implications of this by developing an app that , almost overnight , offers a " free " alternative to a standalone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Two things are going on here.
First, the availability of "free" navigation hardware/software will inevitably cut into the profit margins of Garmin and Tomtom (perhaps less in the "driving directions" market and more in the "walking around" market).
Second, there is no way that cell phones can completely replace standalone GPS devices purely due to screen size issues.
My Garman Nuvi has a screen that is a lot larger than my Blackberry Storm.
I would NOT want my storm to have a screen as large as my Nuvi because I want my smartphone to fit in my pocket.
However, where smartphones really do threaten a company like Garmin is in the GPS device market that covers outdoors enthusiasts.
For waypoint tracking, navigation, etc while hiking I've been able to get my Storm to work really well with Trekbuddy.
It isn't an idea solution because my Storm isn't waterproof or dustproof.
But I put it in a plastic baggie and that works just fine...no need to buy a $350 device from Garmin to do the same thing.
Overall it is true that this isn't good for standalone GPS makers because the competition is increasing.
The demand for GPS enabled devices is increasing but the problem for Garmin is that every smartphone now has a GPS receiver built in.
That offers a lot of flexibility to developers that isn't there on the standalone devices.
Google is showing us the implications of this by developing an app that, almost overnight, offers a "free" alternative to a standalone.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924567</id>
	<title>Re:Needs internet connection-troll?!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256920740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Which idiot modded the above troll?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Which idiot modded the above troll ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Which idiot modded the above troll?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924375</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925957</id>
	<title>Re:Garmin Routing is Crap, Googles is Great</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256926620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Google is perversely insistent on routing you through Manhattan when driving in the vicinity of NYC, despite the idiotic nature of that routing. It also makes a lot of dodgy decisions in Philadelphia and Chicago. The mistakes are different than Garmin's, but equivalent.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Google is perversely insistent on routing you through Manhattan when driving in the vicinity of NYC , despite the idiotic nature of that routing .
It also makes a lot of dodgy decisions in Philadelphia and Chicago .
The mistakes are different than Garmin 's , but equivalent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Google is perversely insistent on routing you through Manhattan when driving in the vicinity of NYC, despite the idiotic nature of that routing.
It also makes a lot of dodgy decisions in Philadelphia and Chicago.
The mistakes are different than Garmin's, but equivalent.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925219</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925183</id>
	<title>Re:Not yet</title>
	<author>rickb928</author>
	<datestamp>1256923140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As opposed to using the standalone GPS while you are on your phone.</p><p>Yep, the silence is deafening.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As opposed to using the standalone GPS while you are on your phone.Yep , the silence is deafening .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As opposed to using the standalone GPS while you are on your phone.Yep, the silence is deafening.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924425</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925617</id>
	<title>Re:wait...</title>
	<author>eXFeLoN</author>
	<datestamp>1256924880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>only during the day.</htmltext>
<tokenext>only during the day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>only during the day.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924419</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29928355</id>
	<title>Re:Android GPS - works for US only</title>
	<author>tknd</author>
	<datestamp>1256894340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Everyone is misunderstanding something. The phone hardware comes with GPS functionality. Android is just the OS and it just so happens google is now going to bundle a GPS aware google maps with directions. This doesn't mean that you can't have an android device with GPS and GPS software that doesn't require google maps or any network connectivity for that matter. In fact you can go on the android market today and find many GPS apps that do not require google maps to function.

</p><p>I own a mytouch 3G android phone and while I was in Japan I didn't have cell phone functionality (locked SIM card). However, I was still able to use the wifi and GPS functions on the device. You can also set your phone to NOT roam when you reach an area without service. Android is a lot more configurable out of the box than people here imply.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Everyone is misunderstanding something .
The phone hardware comes with GPS functionality .
Android is just the OS and it just so happens google is now going to bundle a GPS aware google maps with directions .
This does n't mean that you ca n't have an android device with GPS and GPS software that does n't require google maps or any network connectivity for that matter .
In fact you can go on the android market today and find many GPS apps that do not require google maps to function .
I own a mytouch 3G android phone and while I was in Japan I did n't have cell phone functionality ( locked SIM card ) .
However , I was still able to use the wifi and GPS functions on the device .
You can also set your phone to NOT roam when you reach an area without service .
Android is a lot more configurable out of the box than people here imply .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everyone is misunderstanding something.
The phone hardware comes with GPS functionality.
Android is just the OS and it just so happens google is now going to bundle a GPS aware google maps with directions.
This doesn't mean that you can't have an android device with GPS and GPS software that doesn't require google maps or any network connectivity for that matter.
In fact you can go on the android market today and find many GPS apps that do not require google maps to function.
I own a mytouch 3G android phone and while I was in Japan I didn't have cell phone functionality (locked SIM card).
However, I was still able to use the wifi and GPS functions on the device.
You can also set your phone to NOT roam when you reach an area without service.
Android is a lot more configurable out of the box than people here imply.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924503</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29930301</id>
	<title>Re:I have 7 stand-alone GPS devices....</title>
	<author>\_avs\_007</author>
	<datestamp>1256906280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>And although many late model cars come with built-in GPS systems these are expensive to upgrade and do not allow any changes while the car is moving (even by the passenger). Their screens can be fabulous but the annoyance of having to pull over and stop if something changes has made several of my friends go buy a Nuvi just so they can get the functionality they want. So all their built-in units do is track and display speed, direction, etc. The turn-by-turn is left up to the stand-alone unit mounted on the windshield.</p></div><p>
Actually, only SOME cars don't let you make changes when in motion. Acura, for example, does not care if you are moving, and you can happily use the thing while in motion... I have both built in navigation in almost all my cars, and a couple different hand-held units as well... The built in ones are superior, for one major reason. It does NOT need to have constant GPS signal. If you drive through a downtown area with tall buildings, in a tunnel, etc, the built in navigation will rely on its compass and your car's speed sensors to extrapolate your heading, and continue to function....
<br> <br>
My handheld units? They'll stop working until it gets signal again. When I was in SF, I had to drive aimlessly for 20 blocks before my handheld could figure out where I was again, but it would keep cutting out, causing me to miss MANY turns. I tried with 3 different brands of hand-held navigations, and had the same problem with all three. The one built into my cars tho? I never experienced such a problem....  You know how much it sucks to pull out of a parking garage, and your handheld unit doesn't know where you are, and can't find a signal because of the tall buildings, so you drive 20 blocks to get a signal, and then find out you drove 20 blocks in the wrong direction?  Soooo much nicer to punch in the same info on my built in navigation, and when I exit the parking structure, the thing already knows which street I'm on, and correctly routes me to my destination, even tho the display shows I have no GPS satellites in view. Then I continue down the street, and it correctly routes me, and correctly tells me when to turn, despite still not having any signal yet....</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And although many late model cars come with built-in GPS systems these are expensive to upgrade and do not allow any changes while the car is moving ( even by the passenger ) .
Their screens can be fabulous but the annoyance of having to pull over and stop if something changes has made several of my friends go buy a Nuvi just so they can get the functionality they want .
So all their built-in units do is track and display speed , direction , etc .
The turn-by-turn is left up to the stand-alone unit mounted on the windshield .
Actually , only SOME cars do n't let you make changes when in motion .
Acura , for example , does not care if you are moving , and you can happily use the thing while in motion... I have both built in navigation in almost all my cars , and a couple different hand-held units as well... The built in ones are superior , for one major reason .
It does NOT need to have constant GPS signal .
If you drive through a downtown area with tall buildings , in a tunnel , etc , the built in navigation will rely on its compass and your car 's speed sensors to extrapolate your heading , and continue to function... . My handheld units ?
They 'll stop working until it gets signal again .
When I was in SF , I had to drive aimlessly for 20 blocks before my handheld could figure out where I was again , but it would keep cutting out , causing me to miss MANY turns .
I tried with 3 different brands of hand-held navigations , and had the same problem with all three .
The one built into my cars tho ?
I never experienced such a problem.... You know how much it sucks to pull out of a parking garage , and your handheld unit does n't know where you are , and ca n't find a signal because of the tall buildings , so you drive 20 blocks to get a signal , and then find out you drove 20 blocks in the wrong direction ?
Soooo much nicer to punch in the same info on my built in navigation , and when I exit the parking structure , the thing already knows which street I 'm on , and correctly routes me to my destination , even tho the display shows I have no GPS satellites in view .
Then I continue down the street , and it correctly routes me , and correctly tells me when to turn , despite still not having any signal yet... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And although many late model cars come with built-in GPS systems these are expensive to upgrade and do not allow any changes while the car is moving (even by the passenger).
Their screens can be fabulous but the annoyance of having to pull over and stop if something changes has made several of my friends go buy a Nuvi just so they can get the functionality they want.
So all their built-in units do is track and display speed, direction, etc.
The turn-by-turn is left up to the stand-alone unit mounted on the windshield.
Actually, only SOME cars don't let you make changes when in motion.
Acura, for example, does not care if you are moving, and you can happily use the thing while in motion... I have both built in navigation in almost all my cars, and a couple different hand-held units as well... The built in ones are superior, for one major reason.
It does NOT need to have constant GPS signal.
If you drive through a downtown area with tall buildings, in a tunnel, etc, the built in navigation will rely on its compass and your car's speed sensors to extrapolate your heading, and continue to function....
 
My handheld units?
They'll stop working until it gets signal again.
When I was in SF, I had to drive aimlessly for 20 blocks before my handheld could figure out where I was again, but it would keep cutting out, causing me to miss MANY turns.
I tried with 3 different brands of hand-held navigations, and had the same problem with all three.
The one built into my cars tho?
I never experienced such a problem....  You know how much it sucks to pull out of a parking garage, and your handheld unit doesn't know where you are, and can't find a signal because of the tall buildings, so you drive 20 blocks to get a signal, and then find out you drove 20 blocks in the wrong direction?
Soooo much nicer to punch in the same info on my built in navigation, and when I exit the parking structure, the thing already knows which street I'm on, and correctly routes me to my destination, even tho the display shows I have no GPS satellites in view.
Then I continue down the street, and it correctly routes me, and correctly tells me when to turn, despite still not having any signal yet....
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925537</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924875</id>
	<title>The Route is cached</title>
	<author>acomj</author>
	<datestamp>1256922060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Accoding to engadget the route is cached when calculated, so as long as you don't go too far of course....</p><p><a href="http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/28/google-navigation-video-hands-on-you-want-this/" title="engadget.com">http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/28/google-navigation-video-hands-on-you-want-this/</a> [engadget.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Accoding to engadget the route is cached when calculated , so as long as you do n't go too far of course....http : //www.engadget.com/2009/10/28/google-navigation-video-hands-on-you-want-this/ [ engadget.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Accoding to engadget the route is cached when calculated, so as long as you don't go too far of course....http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/28/google-navigation-video-hands-on-you-want-this/ [engadget.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924375</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926629</id>
	<title>Re:Garmin Routing is Crap, Googles is Great</title>
	<author>DerekLyons</author>
	<datestamp>1256929620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My experience is quite the opposite...  My Garmin Nuvi takes me on very direct routes, and in my native area sometimes on faster and more direct routes than I would pick myself.  Google Maps is the opposite, the routes it frequently choose in my native area are counter intuitive and often outright wrong.<br>
&nbsp; <br>One thing you might do, if you haven't, is check your preferences and avoidances in your Garmin.  Mine didn't perform well until I tuned those.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My experience is quite the opposite... My Garmin Nuvi takes me on very direct routes , and in my native area sometimes on faster and more direct routes than I would pick myself .
Google Maps is the opposite , the routes it frequently choose in my native area are counter intuitive and often outright wrong .
  One thing you might do , if you have n't , is check your preferences and avoidances in your Garmin .
Mine did n't perform well until I tuned those .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My experience is quite the opposite...  My Garmin Nuvi takes me on very direct routes, and in my native area sometimes on faster and more direct routes than I would pick myself.
Google Maps is the opposite, the routes it frequently choose in my native area are counter intuitive and often outright wrong.
  One thing you might do, if you haven't, is check your preferences and avoidances in your Garmin.
Mine didn't perform well until I tuned those.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925219</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924871</id>
	<title>Re:Needs internet connection</title>
	<author>Archangel Michael</author>
	<datestamp>1256922000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Google isn't dumb.</p><p>What if you could "preload" maps of areas you are likely to be in ahead of time into your device? My phone (Blackberry 8330) has a microSD card that could hold all the maps of any place I might head to on vacation. In fact, because it is a microSD card, I could preload many cards with maps and have them available.</p><p>While I'm sure the early versions of gMaps and gNavigate will not have this available, I would suspect that Google will no doubt figure out that this gaping whole (no goatse here please). Quite frankly though, having GPS on a phone is almost worthless to me, because if I'm in an area with Cell coverage, I'm not lost. And if I am lost, it is because there is no cell coverage.</p><p>Just in case my wife is reading<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. "NO we're not lost, we're on an adventure and exploring! Isn't this FUN!!!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Google is n't dumb.What if you could " preload " maps of areas you are likely to be in ahead of time into your device ?
My phone ( Blackberry 8330 ) has a microSD card that could hold all the maps of any place I might head to on vacation .
In fact , because it is a microSD card , I could preload many cards with maps and have them available.While I 'm sure the early versions of gMaps and gNavigate will not have this available , I would suspect that Google will no doubt figure out that this gaping whole ( no goatse here please ) .
Quite frankly though , having GPS on a phone is almost worthless to me , because if I 'm in an area with Cell coverage , I 'm not lost .
And if I am lost , it is because there is no cell coverage.Just in case my wife is reading / .
" NO we 're not lost , we 're on an adventure and exploring !
Is n't this FUN ! ! !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Google isn't dumb.What if you could "preload" maps of areas you are likely to be in ahead of time into your device?
My phone (Blackberry 8330) has a microSD card that could hold all the maps of any place I might head to on vacation.
In fact, because it is a microSD card, I could preload many cards with maps and have them available.While I'm sure the early versions of gMaps and gNavigate will not have this available, I would suspect that Google will no doubt figure out that this gaping whole (no goatse here please).
Quite frankly though, having GPS on a phone is almost worthless to me, because if I'm in an area with Cell coverage, I'm not lost.
And if I am lost, it is because there is no cell coverage.Just in case my wife is reading /.
"NO we're not lost, we're on an adventure and exploring!
Isn't this FUN!!!
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924375</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29929291</id>
	<title>Did the phone kill the photo star?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256899680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>All cell phones have cameras now. Do we still have digital cameras? Most digital cameras can take video. Do we still have camcorders? Google won't kill GPS, however it will just force Garmin &amp; TomTom to refine their products more and make them more appealing. Case in point, read most of the previous comments... phones have fragile gps reception, aren't physically rugged, you name it. This is a non-issue and I'm not sure it's really worth discussion.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>All cell phones have cameras now .
Do we still have digital cameras ?
Most digital cameras can take video .
Do we still have camcorders ?
Google wo n't kill GPS , however it will just force Garmin &amp; TomTom to refine their products more and make them more appealing .
Case in point , read most of the previous comments... phones have fragile gps reception , are n't physically rugged , you name it .
This is a non-issue and I 'm not sure it 's really worth discussion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All cell phones have cameras now.
Do we still have digital cameras?
Most digital cameras can take video.
Do we still have camcorders?
Google won't kill GPS, however it will just force Garmin &amp; TomTom to refine their products more and make them more appealing.
Case in point, read most of the previous comments... phones have fragile gps reception, aren't physically rugged, you name it.
This is a non-issue and I'm not sure it's really worth discussion.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924801</id>
	<title>No. You're stupid for thinking this.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256921820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No. You're stupid for thinking this. Here, check this out.</p><p>Will portable gaming systems kill home gaming systems?<br>Will cell phones kill landline phones?<br>Will firefox kill internet explorer?</p><p>No.</p><p>The 2nd will always have a market, if not smaller, because some people just don't have a need for the first one or like the second one enough to keep it around.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No .
You 're stupid for thinking this .
Here , check this out.Will portable gaming systems kill home gaming systems ? Will cell phones kill landline phones ? Will firefox kill internet explorer ? No.The 2nd will always have a market , if not smaller , because some people just do n't have a need for the first one or like the second one enough to keep it around .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No.
You're stupid for thinking this.
Here, check this out.Will portable gaming systems kill home gaming systems?Will cell phones kill landline phones?Will firefox kill internet explorer?No.The 2nd will always have a market, if not smaller, because some people just don't have a need for the first one or like the second one enough to keep it around.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925121</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256922900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>They still even make standalone cell phones.</p></div><p>They are about as available as Mr. Fusion.  Even the "barebones" phones are phones with cameras removed (and so labeled) that still have some form of orgnaizer/PDA functions in them.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>They still even make standalone cell phones.They are about as available as Mr. Fusion. Even the " barebones " phones are phones with cameras removed ( and so labeled ) that still have some form of orgnaizer/PDA functions in them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They still even make standalone cell phones.They are about as available as Mr. Fusion.  Even the "barebones" phones are phones with cameras removed (and so labeled) that still have some form of orgnaizer/PDA functions in them.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924315</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924391</id>
	<title>He essentially makes no argument</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256920200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just rambles that since Google maps doesn't work without having constant data uplink then it can not be used? Bollocks.</p><p>If standalone units can store all their maps then so can smart phones and other generic devices.<br>The end of standalone GPS devices is very near if that's the only argument that can be made for them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just rambles that since Google maps does n't work without having constant data uplink then it can not be used ?
Bollocks.If standalone units can store all their maps then so can smart phones and other generic devices.The end of standalone GPS devices is very near if that 's the only argument that can be made for them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just rambles that since Google maps doesn't work without having constant data uplink then it can not be used?
Bollocks.If standalone units can store all their maps then so can smart phones and other generic devices.The end of standalone GPS devices is very near if that's the only argument that can be made for them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925897</id>
	<title>Re:Needs internet connection</title>
	<author>SilentElectro</author>
	<datestamp>1256926320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Because paying $70+ a month to your carrier is so much better?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Because paying $ 70 + a month to your carrier is so much better ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because paying $70+ a month to your carrier is so much better?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924949</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924881</id>
	<title>Re:Not until it stores the maps local on the devic</title>
	<author>Dudibob</author>
	<datestamp>1256922060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Did you RTFA from Google? <a href="http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/10/announcing-google-maps-navigation-for.html" title="blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/10/announcing-google-maps-navigation-for.html</a> [blogspot.com]

I'm sure there will be some bugs but it looks like it ticks most of your boxes.

Also better pricing? the software itself is FREE, the only down side is carrier charges to access it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Did you RTFA from Google ?
http : //googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/10/announcing-google-maps-navigation-for.html [ blogspot.com ] I 'm sure there will be some bugs but it looks like it ticks most of your boxes .
Also better pricing ?
the software itself is FREE , the only down side is carrier charges to access it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did you RTFA from Google?
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/10/announcing-google-maps-navigation-for.html [blogspot.com]

I'm sure there will be some bugs but it looks like it ticks most of your boxes.
Also better pricing?
the software itself is FREE, the only down side is carrier charges to access it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924515</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924679</id>
	<title>Re:No.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256921280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, but the google app caches some tiles, and there are other options which work with completely offline maps:</p><p><a href="http://wiki.andnav.org/index.php/MapTilePacks#List\_of\_MapTilePacks" title="andnav.org" rel="nofollow">AndNav</a> [andnav.org] for Android</p><p><a href="http://www.routebuddy.com/itunes/atlas/" title="routebuddy.com" rel="nofollow">Atlas</a> [routebuddy.com] for iPhone, or if you want turn by turn navigation something like the <a href="http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=326075661&amp;mt=8" title="apple.com" rel="nofollow">TomTom</a> [apple.com] app, which also has offline road maps.</p><p>Standalone GPS systems are becoming less and less important, and eventually will probably just merge into multifunction devices. The days of Garmin gouging users on every map upgrade and charging lots of standalone units are gone.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , but the google app caches some tiles , and there are other options which work with completely offline maps : AndNav [ andnav.org ] for AndroidAtlas [ routebuddy.com ] for iPhone , or if you want turn by turn navigation something like the TomTom [ apple.com ] app , which also has offline road maps.Standalone GPS systems are becoming less and less important , and eventually will probably just merge into multifunction devices .
The days of Garmin gouging users on every map upgrade and charging lots of standalone units are gone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, but the google app caches some tiles, and there are other options which work with completely offline maps:AndNav [andnav.org] for AndroidAtlas [routebuddy.com] for iPhone, or if you want turn by turn navigation something like the TomTom [apple.com] app, which also has offline road maps.Standalone GPS systems are becoming less and less important, and eventually will probably just merge into multifunction devices.
The days of Garmin gouging users on every map upgrade and charging lots of standalone units are gone.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925145</id>
	<title>Good Riddance, Garmin</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256922960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They want $150 (?) to fix the flimsy antenna on my Quest II so I bought a whole unit off craigslist for $100.</p><p>BUT, my map "license" is keyed to the serial number on the broken unit.  They refuse to transfer it.  So now I own TWO non-functional Quest II's.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They want $ 150 ( ?
) to fix the flimsy antenna on my Quest II so I bought a whole unit off craigslist for $ 100.BUT , my map " license " is keyed to the serial number on the broken unit .
They refuse to transfer it .
So now I own TWO non-functional Quest II 's .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They want $150 (?
) to fix the flimsy antenna on my Quest II so I bought a whole unit off craigslist for $100.BUT, my map "license" is keyed to the serial number on the broken unit.
They refuse to transfer it.
So now I own TWO non-functional Quest II's.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924971</id>
	<title>Sharing?</title>
	<author>edmicman</author>
	<datestamp>1256922360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My wife can take our Garmin in her car if she needs it or I could let a friend borrow it; I'm not going to lend my phone to someone to use as a GPS.  Sure, I'll find it useful to have a working GPS on my phone, for like most things (camera, gps) I'm gonna go with the dedicated device for when I really need quality.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My wife can take our Garmin in her car if she needs it or I could let a friend borrow it ; I 'm not going to lend my phone to someone to use as a GPS .
Sure , I 'll find it useful to have a working GPS on my phone , for like most things ( camera , gps ) I 'm gon na go with the dedicated device for when I really need quality .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My wife can take our Garmin in her car if she needs it or I could let a friend borrow it; I'm not going to lend my phone to someone to use as a GPS.
Sure, I'll find it useful to have a working GPS on my phone, for like most things (camera, gps) I'm gonna go with the dedicated device for when I really need quality.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925009</id>
	<title>Garmin for BlackBerry, Windows Mobile, Etc</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256922480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's like this is the first and only GPS app for a phone that gives you turn by turn spoken directions. Sorry, the garmin app that's been available for both Blackberry, Windows Mobile, as well as others also supports this feature, has the very familiar and easy to use Garmin Interface, and also integrates with Panoramio to show places near you where people have taken pictures and direct you right to them. I've used it on the Storm, it's really nice. I'd personally say it's a lot better than the current version of Google Maps for Blackberry. Downside: It's $100 for the application, but if you're looking for a good GPS app, the Garmin is surely near the top.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's like this is the first and only GPS app for a phone that gives you turn by turn spoken directions .
Sorry , the garmin app that 's been available for both Blackberry , Windows Mobile , as well as others also supports this feature , has the very familiar and easy to use Garmin Interface , and also integrates with Panoramio to show places near you where people have taken pictures and direct you right to them .
I 've used it on the Storm , it 's really nice .
I 'd personally say it 's a lot better than the current version of Google Maps for Blackberry .
Downside : It 's $ 100 for the application , but if you 're looking for a good GPS app , the Garmin is surely near the top .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's like this is the first and only GPS app for a phone that gives you turn by turn spoken directions.
Sorry, the garmin app that's been available for both Blackberry, Windows Mobile, as well as others also supports this feature, has the very familiar and easy to use Garmin Interface, and also integrates with Panoramio to show places near you where people have taken pictures and direct you right to them.
I've used it on the Storm, it's really nice.
I'd personally say it's a lot better than the current version of Google Maps for Blackberry.
Downside: It's $100 for the application, but if you're looking for a good GPS app, the Garmin is surely near the top.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924835</id>
	<title>Boats, anyone?</title>
	<author>jackjumper</author>
	<datestamp>1256921880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I doubt it will do any good while I'm out on my boat.  I have a Garmin chartplotter GPS that shows marine chart information.  Of course I guess there's no reason they couldn't add it, for coastal and inland waters anyways.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I doubt it will do any good while I 'm out on my boat .
I have a Garmin chartplotter GPS that shows marine chart information .
Of course I guess there 's no reason they could n't add it , for coastal and inland waters anyways .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I doubt it will do any good while I'm out on my boat.
I have a Garmin chartplotter GPS that shows marine chart information.
Of course I guess there's no reason they couldn't add it, for coastal and inland waters anyways.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924503</id>
	<title>Android GPS - works for US only</title>
	<author>ramunas</author>
	<datestamp>1256920500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Here's my problem with the android GPS, and for that matter with cell phone google maps - it all works perfectly when you live in a huge country, and where the possibility that you might need to use the navigation features offered by GPS without ever leaving the country is fairly large - hence you are not really worried about the data charges, since you are using the same operator.
<br>
<br>
BUT. If like me, you live in a small European country, where within the country there is practically no need for the GPS because you know most of the country by heart. Thus the only reason for using a car GPS navigation is when you leave the country. But that's exactly the moment the huge roaming data charges begin to apply. Therefore the only practically viable option unless you don't care how much you spend on your phone costs is by using an offline solution like a Tom-tom or Garmin device.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's my problem with the android GPS , and for that matter with cell phone google maps - it all works perfectly when you live in a huge country , and where the possibility that you might need to use the navigation features offered by GPS without ever leaving the country is fairly large - hence you are not really worried about the data charges , since you are using the same operator .
BUT. If like me , you live in a small European country , where within the country there is practically no need for the GPS because you know most of the country by heart .
Thus the only reason for using a car GPS navigation is when you leave the country .
But that 's exactly the moment the huge roaming data charges begin to apply .
Therefore the only practically viable option unless you do n't care how much you spend on your phone costs is by using an offline solution like a Tom-tom or Garmin device .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's my problem with the android GPS, and for that matter with cell phone google maps - it all works perfectly when you live in a huge country, and where the possibility that you might need to use the navigation features offered by GPS without ever leaving the country is fairly large - hence you are not really worried about the data charges, since you are using the same operator.
BUT. If like me, you live in a small European country, where within the country there is practically no need for the GPS because you know most of the country by heart.
Thus the only reason for using a car GPS navigation is when you leave the country.
But that's exactly the moment the huge roaming data charges begin to apply.
Therefore the only practically viable option unless you don't care how much you spend on your phone costs is by using an offline solution like a Tom-tom or Garmin device.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29927179</id>
	<title>No but... (Let me gaze into my crystal ball)</title>
	<author>wonkavader</author>
	<datestamp>1256932020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Consumers will want longer lasting GPS than an Android phone for handheld stuff, at least some of the time.</p><p>Some consumers will want GPS navigation where Google doesn't have maps.</p><p>So no.</p><p>But this will drastically cut into sales of GPSs for people who fit the Android/cell phone niche well, and that is a lot of people.</p><p>The response will be some mergers in the GPS space, or just companies going out of business, and will make GPS manufacturers do two things:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 1. Concentrate on handhelds more, over car-based systems -- car systems will still be a big deal and the flagship, but more attention will go into smaller devices you carry with you, like watches and hats/backpack attachements where they can compete much better.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 2. GPS manufacturers will add building topo like you see in Korean GPSs when you drive in Seoul -- 3d reps of many of the buildings in a city.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 3. GPSs manufacturers will look for cheaper data rate contracts based on being able to estimate the data flow from their devices better than an android phone can.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; 4. One GPS manufacturer will look to the iPhone to compete, establishing a partnership with Apple to keep all other GPSs navigation software out.  It will pay Apple a LOT of money.  Apple will later screw them somehow as iPhone sales drop.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Consumers will want longer lasting GPS than an Android phone for handheld stuff , at least some of the time.Some consumers will want GPS navigation where Google does n't have maps.So no.But this will drastically cut into sales of GPSs for people who fit the Android/cell phone niche well , and that is a lot of people.The response will be some mergers in the GPS space , or just companies going out of business , and will make GPS manufacturers do two things :     1 .
Concentrate on handhelds more , over car-based systems -- car systems will still be a big deal and the flagship , but more attention will go into smaller devices you carry with you , like watches and hats/backpack attachements where they can compete much better .
    2 .
GPS manufacturers will add building topo like you see in Korean GPSs when you drive in Seoul -- 3d reps of many of the buildings in a city .
    3 .
GPSs manufacturers will look for cheaper data rate contracts based on being able to estimate the data flow from their devices better than an android phone can .
    4 .
One GPS manufacturer will look to the iPhone to compete , establishing a partnership with Apple to keep all other GPSs navigation software out .
It will pay Apple a LOT of money .
Apple will later screw them somehow as iPhone sales drop .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Consumers will want longer lasting GPS than an Android phone for handheld stuff, at least some of the time.Some consumers will want GPS navigation where Google doesn't have maps.So no.But this will drastically cut into sales of GPSs for people who fit the Android/cell phone niche well, and that is a lot of people.The response will be some mergers in the GPS space, or just companies going out of business, and will make GPS manufacturers do two things:
    1.
Concentrate on handhelds more, over car-based systems -- car systems will still be a big deal and the flagship, but more attention will go into smaller devices you carry with you, like watches and hats/backpack attachements where they can compete much better.
    2.
GPS manufacturers will add building topo like you see in Korean GPSs when you drive in Seoul -- 3d reps of many of the buildings in a city.
    3.
GPSs manufacturers will look for cheaper data rate contracts based on being able to estimate the data flow from their devices better than an android phone can.
    4.
One GPS manufacturer will look to the iPhone to compete, establishing a partnership with Apple to keep all other GPSs navigation software out.
It will pay Apple a LOT of money.
Apple will later screw them somehow as iPhone sales drop.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926409</id>
	<title>Same diff.</title>
	<author>SuiteSisterMary</author>
	<datestamp>1256928720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My iPhone with the TomTom North America app *is* a standalone GPS.  It requires no network connection whatsoever to run once it's loaded.</p><p>No way I'd want something that requires net access to work, though.</p><p>That said, the iPhone's GPS chip is crap. Cruising along the TransCanada towards Ottawa, clear sunny blue sky from horizon to horizon, and it's still suddenly deciding I'm on a side road several hundred meters to the right?  Crap.  Hey, Apple, throw in a serial Bluetooth profile so I can use my Bluetooth GPS keychain with a frighteningly better GPS chip in it.</p><p>(Actually, I'm going to drink the TomTom Car Kit koolaid.  If it ever comes out.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My iPhone with the TomTom North America app * is * a standalone GPS .
It requires no network connection whatsoever to run once it 's loaded.No way I 'd want something that requires net access to work , though.That said , the iPhone 's GPS chip is crap .
Cruising along the TransCanada towards Ottawa , clear sunny blue sky from horizon to horizon , and it 's still suddenly deciding I 'm on a side road several hundred meters to the right ?
Crap. Hey , Apple , throw in a serial Bluetooth profile so I can use my Bluetooth GPS keychain with a frighteningly better GPS chip in it .
( Actually , I 'm going to drink the TomTom Car Kit koolaid .
If it ever comes out .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My iPhone with the TomTom North America app *is* a standalone GPS.
It requires no network connection whatsoever to run once it's loaded.No way I'd want something that requires net access to work, though.That said, the iPhone's GPS chip is crap.
Cruising along the TransCanada towards Ottawa, clear sunny blue sky from horizon to horizon, and it's still suddenly deciding I'm on a side road several hundred meters to the right?
Crap.  Hey, Apple, throw in a serial Bluetooth profile so I can use my Bluetooth GPS keychain with a frighteningly better GPS chip in it.
(Actually, I'm going to drink the TomTom Car Kit koolaid.
If it ever comes out.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924593</id>
	<title>Not necessarily</title>
	<author>f1vlad</author>
	<datestamp>1256920860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They can always move on to Android OS like MIO is doing: <a href="http://www.pcworld.com/article/174434/android\_moving\_into\_mio\_mibuddy\_navigation\_device.html" title="pcworld.com">http://www.pcworld.com/article/174434/android\_moving\_into\_mio\_mibuddy\_navigation\_device.html</a> [pcworld.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>They can always move on to Android OS like MIO is doing : http : //www.pcworld.com/article/174434/android \ _moving \ _into \ _mio \ _mibuddy \ _navigation \ _device.html [ pcworld.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They can always move on to Android OS like MIO is doing: http://www.pcworld.com/article/174434/android\_moving\_into\_mio\_mibuddy\_navigation\_device.html [pcworld.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924673</id>
	<title>Walmart, I mean Google Strikes Again!</title>
	<author>sumbry</author>
	<datestamp>1256921280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In the same way that Walmart comes into a town and destroys local businesses, Google can enter into an industry/sector and destroy most of the competition overnight by giving an application away for free.  Who is going to pay $100 for a Maps Application now (or more for a hardware device) when they can just download one for free.</p><p>Isn't this the same type of stuff we accused Microsoft of doing years ago? Yup, Walmart, I mean Google strikes again.  Pray whatever industry you're in Google doesn't decide to suddenly release a free product.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In the same way that Walmart comes into a town and destroys local businesses , Google can enter into an industry/sector and destroy most of the competition overnight by giving an application away for free .
Who is going to pay $ 100 for a Maps Application now ( or more for a hardware device ) when they can just download one for free.Is n't this the same type of stuff we accused Microsoft of doing years ago ?
Yup , Walmart , I mean Google strikes again .
Pray whatever industry you 're in Google does n't decide to suddenly release a free product .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the same way that Walmart comes into a town and destroys local businesses, Google can enter into an industry/sector and destroy most of the competition overnight by giving an application away for free.
Who is going to pay $100 for a Maps Application now (or more for a hardware device) when they can just download one for free.Isn't this the same type of stuff we accused Microsoft of doing years ago?
Yup, Walmart, I mean Google strikes again.
Pray whatever industry you're in Google doesn't decide to suddenly release a free product.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926073</id>
	<title>I hope not...</title>
	<author>PinchDuck</author>
	<datestamp>1256927220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is a time when a ruggedized GPS is better than a phone. Hiking, biking, and boating come to mind. If you drop or damage your GPS,  your phone is still safely in your pocket.<br>Also it is great to have a standalone GPS without any ability to communicate. Call me a tinfoil hat person, but not having the ability to send my location to mystery server somewhere suits me just fine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is a time when a ruggedized GPS is better than a phone .
Hiking , biking , and boating come to mind .
If you drop or damage your GPS , your phone is still safely in your pocket.Also it is great to have a standalone GPS without any ability to communicate .
Call me a tinfoil hat person , but not having the ability to send my location to mystery server somewhere suits me just fine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is a time when a ruggedized GPS is better than a phone.
Hiking, biking, and boating come to mind.
If you drop or damage your GPS,  your phone is still safely in your pocket.Also it is great to have a standalone GPS without any ability to communicate.
Call me a tinfoil hat person, but not having the ability to send my location to mystery server somewhere suits me just fine.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29927119</id>
	<title>Re:Not yet</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1256931720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Dude, I hope you're not driving when you're using your phone and GPS at the same time, because either one by itself is more than enough of a distraction.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dude , I hope you 're not driving when you 're using your phone and GPS at the same time , because either one by itself is more than enough of a distraction .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dude, I hope you're not driving when you're using your phone and GPS at the same time, because either one by itself is more than enough of a distraction.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924425</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29927003</id>
	<title>No Biggie</title>
	<author>bloobamator</author>
	<datestamp>1256931180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>On one hand I don't really care if one technology kills another, older technology.  So from that perspective this is a non-story.  On the other hand I have a G1 and I love it, and the latest update automatically disables the power-sucking GPS when I navigate out of map mode, which is nice.</htmltext>
<tokenext>On one hand I do n't really care if one technology kills another , older technology .
So from that perspective this is a non-story .
On the other hand I have a G1 and I love it , and the latest update automatically disables the power-sucking GPS when I navigate out of map mode , which is nice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On one hand I don't really care if one technology kills another, older technology.
So from that perspective this is a non-story.
On the other hand I have a G1 and I love it, and the latest update automatically disables the power-sucking GPS when I navigate out of map mode, which is nice.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925949</id>
	<title>Open Street Map</title>
	<author>gr8\_phk</author>
	<datestamp>1256926620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Can we just fix the errors in the OSM so it's up to date? Then we can all just download that into whatever device we want. Netbooks have a bigger display than GPS devices and cellphones. I have a bluetooth GPS that cost $60 with no display - it's great.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Can we just fix the errors in the OSM so it 's up to date ?
Then we can all just download that into whatever device we want .
Netbooks have a bigger display than GPS devices and cellphones .
I have a bluetooth GPS that cost $ 60 with no display - it 's great .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can we just fix the errors in the OSM so it's up to date?
Then we can all just download that into whatever device we want.
Netbooks have a bigger display than GPS devices and cellphones.
I have a bluetooth GPS that cost $60 with no display - it's great.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924375</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924387</id>
	<title>Computer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256920140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't want to talk to a computer unless it has Majel Roddenberry's voice.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't want to talk to a computer unless it has Majel Roddenberry 's voice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't want to talk to a computer unless it has Majel Roddenberry's voice.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925597</id>
	<title>Re:Will replace my Garmin when ...</title>
	<author>sparkchaser</author>
	<datestamp>1256924880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What model is this? It sounds like exactly what I am looking for.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What model is this ?
It sounds like exactly what I am looking for .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What model is this?
It sounds like exactly what I am looking for.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924455</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29929363</id>
	<title>Like smartphones killed MP3?</title>
	<author>SmallFurryCreature</author>
	<datestamp>1256900220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh wait. They didn't. Apple ain't stupid, they don't have an extensive range of MP3 players beside their smartphone just for the hell of it.
</p><p>Or how cameraphones replaced camera's. Oh wait. They didn't.
</p><p>Or how that really big black guy with the huge smile has totally replaced me in my gf's affections? Oh wait, she is telling me to get of the phone, Bubba needs his rest.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh wait .
They did n't .
Apple ai n't stupid , they do n't have an extensive range of MP3 players beside their smartphone just for the hell of it .
Or how cameraphones replaced camera 's .
Oh wait .
They did n't .
Or how that really big black guy with the huge smile has totally replaced me in my gf 's affections ?
Oh wait , she is telling me to get of the phone , Bubba needs his rest .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh wait.
They didn't.
Apple ain't stupid, they don't have an extensive range of MP3 players beside their smartphone just for the hell of it.
Or how cameraphones replaced camera's.
Oh wait.
They didn't.
Or how that really big black guy with the huge smile has totally replaced me in my gf's affections?
Oh wait, she is telling me to get of the phone, Bubba needs his rest.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29932125</id>
	<title>Dupe... Really old dupe.</title>
	<author>cyn1c77</author>
	<datestamp>1256923140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You must have missed the Slashdot story titled <a href="http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/09/07/09/1339225/Standalone-GPS-Receivers-Going-the-Way-of-the-Dodo" title="slashdot.org"> Standalone GPS Receivers Going the Way of the Dodo </a> [slashdot.org] that was posted 4 months ago.  </p><p>And I am sure that the people who actually rely on GPS (boats, planes, backcountry travelers, military) will continue to use standalone receivers.  History has shown that there is never a cell tower where you really need it and if it is there, you won't have reception when the shit hits the fan.  </p><p>The rest of us who just like to fruit out with GPS when we really don't need it will happily continue doing so on our cell phones.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You must have missed the Slashdot story titled Standalone GPS Receivers Going the Way of the Dodo [ slashdot.org ] that was posted 4 months ago .
And I am sure that the people who actually rely on GPS ( boats , planes , backcountry travelers , military ) will continue to use standalone receivers .
History has shown that there is never a cell tower where you really need it and if it is there , you wo n't have reception when the shit hits the fan .
The rest of us who just like to fruit out with GPS when we really do n't need it will happily continue doing so on our cell phones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You must have missed the Slashdot story titled  Standalone GPS Receivers Going the Way of the Dodo  [slashdot.org] that was posted 4 months ago.
And I am sure that the people who actually rely on GPS (boats, planes, backcountry travelers, military) will continue to use standalone receivers.
History has shown that there is never a cell tower where you really need it and if it is there, you won't have reception when the shit hits the fan.
The rest of us who just like to fruit out with GPS when we really don't need it will happily continue doing so on our cell phones.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29928937</id>
	<title>Re:Walmart, I mean Google Strikes Again!</title>
	<author>the Atomic Rabbit</author>
	<datestamp>1256897280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Isn't this the same type of stuff we accused Microsoft of doing years ago?</p><p>Until Google starts strong-arming OEMs into refusing to carry their competitors' products, the answer is no.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Is n't this the same type of stuff we accused Microsoft of doing years ago ? Until Google starts strong-arming OEMs into refusing to carry their competitors ' products , the answer is no .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Isn't this the same type of stuff we accused Microsoft of doing years ago?Until Google starts strong-arming OEMs into refusing to carry their competitors' products, the answer is no.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924673</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925217</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>LoverOfJoy</author>
	<datestamp>1256923260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Here's a question: are standalone GPS significantly better than a cell phone GPS?
<br> <br>
Because in the examples you gave, the standalones are miles ahead of the phone equivalent (at least in the majority of phones).
<br> <br>
While cameras in phones are getting better, they still generally aren't the kind you'll want to print and put up on the wall.
<br> <br>
MP3 players in phones tend to be nowhere near as usable as an ipod (or many other mp3 players).
<br> <br>
PDAs I'm least familiar with (at least current ones) but I suspect the same still holds true there. Certainly a few years back the PDA I owned didn't have an affordable equivalent built into a phone and my PDA wasn't anywhere near top of the line at the time.
<br> <br>
I have never used a GPS and wouldn't know the difference between what comes standard in a GPS phone versus what comes standard in a stand-alone unit. Is it enough for most people who already have the former to also pick up the latter?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's a question : are standalone GPS significantly better than a cell phone GPS ?
Because in the examples you gave , the standalones are miles ahead of the phone equivalent ( at least in the majority of phones ) .
While cameras in phones are getting better , they still generally are n't the kind you 'll want to print and put up on the wall .
MP3 players in phones tend to be nowhere near as usable as an ipod ( or many other mp3 players ) .
PDAs I 'm least familiar with ( at least current ones ) but I suspect the same still holds true there .
Certainly a few years back the PDA I owned did n't have an affordable equivalent built into a phone and my PDA was n't anywhere near top of the line at the time .
I have never used a GPS and would n't know the difference between what comes standard in a GPS phone versus what comes standard in a stand-alone unit .
Is it enough for most people who already have the former to also pick up the latter ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's a question: are standalone GPS significantly better than a cell phone GPS?
Because in the examples you gave, the standalones are miles ahead of the phone equivalent (at least in the majority of phones).
While cameras in phones are getting better, they still generally aren't the kind you'll want to print and put up on the wall.
MP3 players in phones tend to be nowhere near as usable as an ipod (or many other mp3 players).
PDAs I'm least familiar with (at least current ones) but I suspect the same still holds true there.
Certainly a few years back the PDA I owned didn't have an affordable equivalent built into a phone and my PDA wasn't anywhere near top of the line at the time.
I have never used a GPS and wouldn't know the difference between what comes standard in a GPS phone versus what comes standard in a stand-alone unit.
Is it enough for most people who already have the former to also pick up the latter?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924315</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924817</id>
	<title>Probably</title>
	<author>MDMurphy</author>
	<datestamp>1256921880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One issue with phone based GPS units is that they go stupid when there's no cell coverage.  Thats easily fixed:  Just load the map database onto the unit ahead of time.  My standalone Garmin has a map update that comes on DVD that fits on a 2GB memory card with space to spare.  With a smartphone with 8GB+ you could easily put the whole US/Canada database on it, or just the part of the country you need.</p><p>Garmin had this available for PDAs a while back, before flash memory was cheap.  They could release a loadable database you put on the SD card in your Android phone and an app to use it loaded in the phone. They'd probably have better margins on that product than the standalone one.</p><p>Another issue with handhelds as car units is satellite visibility.  That's where a well done car cradle can help.  Charging is done as you go, or you can go wild and have a setup that integrates an external antenna.</p><p>Pure online map solutions aren't a good replacement for a standalone, but with cheap memory these days there's no reason a phone can't contain a map database, suplemented by additional information ( like StreetView or aerial photos ) when wireless coverage is available.  Loading the entire map database into the unit would not likely be free though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One issue with phone based GPS units is that they go stupid when there 's no cell coverage .
Thats easily fixed : Just load the map database onto the unit ahead of time .
My standalone Garmin has a map update that comes on DVD that fits on a 2GB memory card with space to spare .
With a smartphone with 8GB + you could easily put the whole US/Canada database on it , or just the part of the country you need.Garmin had this available for PDAs a while back , before flash memory was cheap .
They could release a loadable database you put on the SD card in your Android phone and an app to use it loaded in the phone .
They 'd probably have better margins on that product than the standalone one.Another issue with handhelds as car units is satellite visibility .
That 's where a well done car cradle can help .
Charging is done as you go , or you can go wild and have a setup that integrates an external antenna.Pure online map solutions are n't a good replacement for a standalone , but with cheap memory these days there 's no reason a phone ca n't contain a map database , suplemented by additional information ( like StreetView or aerial photos ) when wireless coverage is available .
Loading the entire map database into the unit would not likely be free though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One issue with phone based GPS units is that they go stupid when there's no cell coverage.
Thats easily fixed:  Just load the map database onto the unit ahead of time.
My standalone Garmin has a map update that comes on DVD that fits on a 2GB memory card with space to spare.
With a smartphone with 8GB+ you could easily put the whole US/Canada database on it, or just the part of the country you need.Garmin had this available for PDAs a while back, before flash memory was cheap.
They could release a loadable database you put on the SD card in your Android phone and an app to use it loaded in the phone.
They'd probably have better margins on that product than the standalone one.Another issue with handhelds as car units is satellite visibility.
That's where a well done car cradle can help.
Charging is done as you go, or you can go wild and have a setup that integrates an external antenna.Pure online map solutions aren't a good replacement for a standalone, but with cheap memory these days there's no reason a phone can't contain a map database, suplemented by additional information ( like StreetView or aerial photos ) when wireless coverage is available.
Loading the entire map database into the unit would not likely be free though.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924965</id>
	<title>Re:Android GPS - works for US only</title>
	<author>Gudeldar</author>
	<datestamp>1256922300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Unless you live in Liechtenstein or Vatican City I have a hard time believing you've memorized every single road in your country.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless you live in Liechtenstein or Vatican City I have a hard time believing you 've memorized every single road in your country .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unless you live in Liechtenstein or Vatican City I have a hard time believing you've memorized every single road in your country.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924503</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924563</id>
	<title>Not a chance</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256920740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I go hiking/camping nearly every-other weekend during the summer and even some in winter.  Cell signals are poor to non-existent (when they do exist, it's never 3g) and I might have not have access to a power source for a couple days up to a week.</p><p>Good luck with finding a cell-phone that can fit that bill.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I go hiking/camping nearly every-other weekend during the summer and even some in winter .
Cell signals are poor to non-existent ( when they do exist , it 's never 3g ) and I might have not have access to a power source for a couple days up to a week.Good luck with finding a cell-phone that can fit that bill .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I go hiking/camping nearly every-other weekend during the summer and even some in winter.
Cell signals are poor to non-existent (when they do exist, it's never 3g) and I might have not have access to a power source for a couple days up to a week.Good luck with finding a cell-phone that can fit that bill.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926353</id>
	<title>Re:Walmart, I mean Google Strikes Again!</title>
	<author>Espectr0</author>
	<datestamp>1256928540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not if actually Google's service is better or cheaper than the competition provides. But don't worry, Garmin and TomTom have offline access, works outside the US, and standalone devices can connect almost instantly while a cellphone takes sometimes up to 10 minutes to connect (especially if you don't have assisted gps with your cellphone provider)</p><p>They are not going anywhere anytime soon.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not if actually Google 's service is better or cheaper than the competition provides .
But do n't worry , Garmin and TomTom have offline access , works outside the US , and standalone devices can connect almost instantly while a cellphone takes sometimes up to 10 minutes to connect ( especially if you do n't have assisted gps with your cellphone provider ) They are not going anywhere anytime soon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not if actually Google's service is better or cheaper than the competition provides.
But don't worry, Garmin and TomTom have offline access, works outside the US, and standalone devices can connect almost instantly while a cellphone takes sometimes up to 10 minutes to connect (especially if you don't have assisted gps with your cellphone provider)They are not going anywhere anytime soon.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924673</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925627</id>
	<title>wel</title>
	<author>chord.wav</author>
	<datestamp>1256924940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Cellphones screens just aren't designed for in-car/while-driving use. I like my Garmin touch interface. You have to push harder than on an iPhone, where the slightest touch is counted as a click.</p><p>So, GPS-enabled phones will surely eat the casual-user market, but on the long run, it may even draw more attention to the GPS units giving Garmin and such a niche.... On a second thought, that is until Apple launches its tablet, designed for in-car use (and kindle use also).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Cellphones screens just are n't designed for in-car/while-driving use .
I like my Garmin touch interface .
You have to push harder than on an iPhone , where the slightest touch is counted as a click.So , GPS-enabled phones will surely eat the casual-user market , but on the long run , it may even draw more attention to the GPS units giving Garmin and such a niche.... On a second thought , that is until Apple launches its tablet , designed for in-car use ( and kindle use also ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cellphones screens just aren't designed for in-car/while-driving use.
I like my Garmin touch interface.
You have to push harder than on an iPhone, where the slightest touch is counted as a click.So, GPS-enabled phones will surely eat the casual-user market, but on the long run, it may even draw more attention to the GPS units giving Garmin and such a niche.... On a second thought, that is until Apple launches its tablet, designed for in-car use (and kindle use also).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926249</id>
	<title>Re:Missing Factor...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256928060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>Will Google and Android Kill Standalone GPS?</p></div><p>Will Google and Android <i>and Verizon</i> Kill Standalone GPS <strong>in the US</strong>?</p></div><p>There, fixed it for ya. Your point is quite valid, but please bear in mind <em>some</em> countries have cell phone networks that don't suck, have already established 3.5G (HSPA) and have actually started rolling out 4G while the US has only just realised what a 3G network is for.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Will Google and Android Kill Standalone GPS ? Will Google and Android and Verizon Kill Standalone GPS in the US ? There , fixed it for ya .
Your point is quite valid , but please bear in mind some countries have cell phone networks that do n't suck , have already established 3.5G ( HSPA ) and have actually started rolling out 4G while the US has only just realised what a 3G network is for .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Will Google and Android Kill Standalone GPS?Will Google and Android and Verizon Kill Standalone GPS in the US?There, fixed it for ya.
Your point is quite valid, but please bear in mind some countries have cell phone networks that don't suck, have already established 3.5G (HSPA) and have actually started rolling out 4G while the US has only just realised what a 3G network is for.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924445</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925469</id>
	<title>Re:Not yet</title>
	<author>bkr1\_2k</author>
	<datestamp>1256924160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why shouldn't I be on the phone talking to someone giving while using the GPS to find their location in the woods?  There are plenty of examples for your scenario that don't include driving.  This is one of the best points that can be made for the survival of the market.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why should n't I be on the phone talking to someone giving while using the GPS to find their location in the woods ?
There are plenty of examples for your scenario that do n't include driving .
This is one of the best points that can be made for the survival of the market .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why shouldn't I be on the phone talking to someone giving while using the GPS to find their location in the woods?
There are plenty of examples for your scenario that don't include driving.
This is one of the best points that can be made for the survival of the market.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924425</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924427</id>
	<title>Proposed question is stupid</title>
	<author>Loomismeister</author>
	<datestamp>1256920260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Will stand alone GPS be killed? Of course not! The military and civil navigation systems use it in stand alone settings and they will continue to do so. GPS can't disappear and the only valid question here is "Would Garmin or TomTom go out of business because of google or android?". The answer is still no because they won't die, and if they do it's not because of google or android alone.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Will stand alone GPS be killed ?
Of course not !
The military and civil navigation systems use it in stand alone settings and they will continue to do so .
GPS ca n't disappear and the only valid question here is " Would Garmin or TomTom go out of business because of google or android ? " .
The answer is still no because they wo n't die , and if they do it 's not because of google or android alone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Will stand alone GPS be killed?
Of course not!
The military and civil navigation systems use it in stand alone settings and they will continue to do so.
GPS can't disappear and the only valid question here is "Would Garmin or TomTom go out of business because of google or android?".
The answer is still no because they won't die, and if they do it's not because of google or android alone.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924741</id>
	<title>Re:No.</title>
	<author>AndrewNeo</author>
	<datestamp>1256921580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Good thing Droid, the first phone to introduce this turn-by-turn Google Maps, is coming out on Verizon.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Good thing Droid , the first phone to introduce this turn-by-turn Google Maps , is coming out on Verizon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good thing Droid, the first phone to introduce this turn-by-turn Google Maps, is coming out on Verizon.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29928137</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>644bd346996</author>
	<datestamp>1256893320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes. The antenna on my GPS receiver wouldn't fit into any smartphone, even if you took out the phone bits. I suspect if you took a smartphone into a deep valley with thick tree cover, you would find that it couldn't track satellites as well as even the cheapest dedicated receivers, let alone as well as a high-end unit. Also, no smartphone that I've yet heard of has a barometric altimeter, which means the altitude readings off a smartphone are pretty much a novelty. (The last time I went sea kayaking with a GPS, the altitude reported was -6ft the whole time, despite the receiver clearly being 8inches above the water.) An accurate altimeter can be very useful when navigating and geocaching in the mountains.</p><p>However, all the above reasons pale in comparison the the fact that my heart doesn't skip a few beats when I drop my GPS onto a rock in a river. I know it will be fine as long as I fetch it out before it gets washed downstream. If the same happened with an iPhone (which is far more likely to be dropped, due to the smooth, slick surfaces), I'd have good reason to panic.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes .
The antenna on my GPS receiver would n't fit into any smartphone , even if you took out the phone bits .
I suspect if you took a smartphone into a deep valley with thick tree cover , you would find that it could n't track satellites as well as even the cheapest dedicated receivers , let alone as well as a high-end unit .
Also , no smartphone that I 've yet heard of has a barometric altimeter , which means the altitude readings off a smartphone are pretty much a novelty .
( The last time I went sea kayaking with a GPS , the altitude reported was -6ft the whole time , despite the receiver clearly being 8inches above the water .
) An accurate altimeter can be very useful when navigating and geocaching in the mountains.However , all the above reasons pale in comparison the the fact that my heart does n't skip a few beats when I drop my GPS onto a rock in a river .
I know it will be fine as long as I fetch it out before it gets washed downstream .
If the same happened with an iPhone ( which is far more likely to be dropped , due to the smooth , slick surfaces ) , I 'd have good reason to panic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes.
The antenna on my GPS receiver wouldn't fit into any smartphone, even if you took out the phone bits.
I suspect if you took a smartphone into a deep valley with thick tree cover, you would find that it couldn't track satellites as well as even the cheapest dedicated receivers, let alone as well as a high-end unit.
Also, no smartphone that I've yet heard of has a barometric altimeter, which means the altitude readings off a smartphone are pretty much a novelty.
(The last time I went sea kayaking with a GPS, the altitude reported was -6ft the whole time, despite the receiver clearly being 8inches above the water.
) An accurate altimeter can be very useful when navigating and geocaching in the mountains.However, all the above reasons pale in comparison the the fact that my heart doesn't skip a few beats when I drop my GPS onto a rock in a river.
I know it will be fine as long as I fetch it out before it gets washed downstream.
If the same happened with an iPhone (which is far more likely to be dropped, due to the smooth, slick surfaces), I'd have good reason to panic.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925217</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29928509</id>
	<title>Re:Garmin Routing is Crap, Googles is Great</title>
	<author>riverat1</author>
	<datestamp>1256895060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are you selection "Shortest" or "Quickest" routing?  It makes a difference.  Also, you can sometimes set priorities for road types, setting a preference for major roads.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are you selection " Shortest " or " Quickest " routing ?
It makes a difference .
Also , you can sometimes set priorities for road types , setting a preference for major roads .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are you selection "Shortest" or "Quickest" routing?
It makes a difference.
Also, you can sometimes set priorities for road types, setting a preference for major roads.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925219</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925487</id>
	<title>Shipping</title>
	<author>mistralol</author>
	<datestamp>1256924280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>
No Likly

As an iphone normally isnt suitable for some of the following sports they simply break to easy or you dont get any signal so its usless anyway.

Sailing / Hiking / Sea Canoe / Gliding / Many others ?

Another fact is that my gliding instructor was told to stop flying with his phone on as he was causing havoc on the network he was jumping between multiple cell towers to fast</htmltext>
<tokenext>No Likly As an iphone normally isnt suitable for some of the following sports they simply break to easy or you dont get any signal so its usless anyway .
Sailing / Hiking / Sea Canoe / Gliding / Many others ?
Another fact is that my gliding instructor was told to stop flying with his phone on as he was causing havoc on the network he was jumping between multiple cell towers to fast</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
No Likly

As an iphone normally isnt suitable for some of the following sports they simply break to easy or you dont get any signal so its usless anyway.
Sailing / Hiking / Sea Canoe / Gliding / Many others ?
Another fact is that my gliding instructor was told to stop flying with his phone on as he was causing havoc on the network he was jumping between multiple cell towers to fast</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925089</id>
	<title>Re:Will replace my Garmin when ...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256922720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I'll personally replace my outdoors-oriented Garmin when I can get a bicycle-mountable, rucksack-clippable, fully waterproof (i.e. submerge for a significant length of time, not just splashproof), robust and accurate GPS device. That doesn't cost more than I paid for the Garmin in the first place. And can run on AA batteries for long periods of time, so I can swap batteries when they run down.</p></div><p>Yeah I had one of those until I let the batteries explode in it. It was a Magellan SporTrak or something like that. The thing cost me $140 (it was a discontinued model) and was IPX7 waterproof which is 3 meters for 30 minutes, you could get a mountain bike handlebar clip for it, I dont know about a belt clip but the strap on it could be looped onto a belt loop or backpack frame easily enough. It ran on 2 or 4 AA batteries for a good length of time to. The only thing it didnt have was voice instructions because it was a hiking/outdoors model and not an automotive model because it was before the automotive ones got popular.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll personally replace my outdoors-oriented Garmin when I can get a bicycle-mountable , rucksack-clippable , fully waterproof ( i.e .
submerge for a significant length of time , not just splashproof ) , robust and accurate GPS device .
That does n't cost more than I paid for the Garmin in the first place .
And can run on AA batteries for long periods of time , so I can swap batteries when they run down.Yeah I had one of those until I let the batteries explode in it .
It was a Magellan SporTrak or something like that .
The thing cost me $ 140 ( it was a discontinued model ) and was IPX7 waterproof which is 3 meters for 30 minutes , you could get a mountain bike handlebar clip for it , I dont know about a belt clip but the strap on it could be looped onto a belt loop or backpack frame easily enough .
It ran on 2 or 4 AA batteries for a good length of time to .
The only thing it didnt have was voice instructions because it was a hiking/outdoors model and not an automotive model because it was before the automotive ones got popular .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll personally replace my outdoors-oriented Garmin when I can get a bicycle-mountable, rucksack-clippable, fully waterproof (i.e.
submerge for a significant length of time, not just splashproof), robust and accurate GPS device.
That doesn't cost more than I paid for the Garmin in the first place.
And can run on AA batteries for long periods of time, so I can swap batteries when they run down.Yeah I had one of those until I let the batteries explode in it.
It was a Magellan SporTrak or something like that.
The thing cost me $140 (it was a discontinued model) and was IPX7 waterproof which is 3 meters for 30 minutes, you could get a mountain bike handlebar clip for it, I dont know about a belt clip but the strap on it could be looped onto a belt loop or backpack frame easily enough.
It ran on 2 or 4 AA batteries for a good length of time to.
The only thing it didnt have was voice instructions because it was a hiking/outdoors model and not an automotive model because it was before the automotive ones got popular.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924455</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924445</id>
	<title>Missing Factor...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256920320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Will Google and Android Kill Standalone GPS?</p></div><p>Will Google and Android <i>and Verizon</i> Kill Standalone GPS?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Will Google and Android Kill Standalone GPS ? Will Google and Android and Verizon Kill Standalone GPS ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Will Google and Android Kill Standalone GPS?Will Google and Android and Verizon Kill Standalone GPS?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926979</id>
	<title>I have privacy issue with Google GPS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256931120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You all forgot the main problem with Google GPS and that is the privacy issue. I don't want Google know where I am and follow my movements.<br>They want to access my phone book on my phone, see who I call, where I go, and what I look for in the internet and associate that to one phone number. A big no to Google. Get out of my space.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You all forgot the main problem with Google GPS and that is the privacy issue .
I do n't want Google know where I am and follow my movements.They want to access my phone book on my phone , see who I call , where I go , and what I look for in the internet and associate that to one phone number .
A big no to Google .
Get out of my space .
     </tokentext>
<sentencetext>You all forgot the main problem with Google GPS and that is the privacy issue.
I don't want Google know where I am and follow my movements.They want to access my phone book on my phone, see who I call, where I go, and what I look for in the internet and associate that to one phone number.
A big no to Google.
Get out of my space.
     </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925381</id>
	<title>Re:Not the end, but the writing is on the wall</title>
	<author>MikeURL</author>
	<datestamp>1256923800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Exactly.  The same standalone unit that I bought for $150 a few months ago cost about $1000 when it first came out.  Standalone isn't going away but it IS going to have consistently lower margins over time.  There is also some question now about whether they can make it up in volume.  That becomes more of a challenge once The Google is offering the same service as you--for free. If you also factor in a consumer that is working off a few years worth of crazy excesses then one has to wonder about discretionary consumer devices that have a free substitute available (even if it isn't as good as the standalone).
<br> <br>
The selloff in the stocks is rational, IMO.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly .
The same standalone unit that I bought for $ 150 a few months ago cost about $ 1000 when it first came out .
Standalone is n't going away but it IS going to have consistently lower margins over time .
There is also some question now about whether they can make it up in volume .
That becomes more of a challenge once The Google is offering the same service as you--for free .
If you also factor in a consumer that is working off a few years worth of crazy excesses then one has to wonder about discretionary consumer devices that have a free substitute available ( even if it is n't as good as the standalone ) .
The selloff in the stocks is rational , IMO .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly.
The same standalone unit that I bought for $150 a few months ago cost about $1000 when it first came out.
Standalone isn't going away but it IS going to have consistently lower margins over time.
There is also some question now about whether they can make it up in volume.
That becomes more of a challenge once The Google is offering the same service as you--for free.
If you also factor in a consumer that is working off a few years worth of crazy excesses then one has to wonder about discretionary consumer devices that have a free substitute available (even if it isn't as good as the standalone).
The selloff in the stocks is rational, IMO.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924757</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925655</id>
	<title>Define "kill"</title>
	<author>MobyDisk</author>
	<datestamp>1256925060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Everyone has posted reasons that standalone GPS units will still be necessary.  However, these examples are edge cases.  The real question is "<em>How much</em> will Google and Android kill standalone GPS?"  If every car and cell phone has Google Navigation, and every mountain biker + international traveler + shepherd + sailor has a standalone GPS -- then companies like Garmin and TomTom will shrink substantially.  Those other uses are a very small part of the total market.  Perhaps small enough that they might become expensive custom-made niche items.</p><p>Add in the fact that cell coverage and bandwidth are increasing.  From an investors standpoint, these are not the companies you want to be investing in, even if their products do survive.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Everyone has posted reasons that standalone GPS units will still be necessary .
However , these examples are edge cases .
The real question is " How much will Google and Android kill standalone GPS ?
" If every car and cell phone has Google Navigation , and every mountain biker + international traveler + shepherd + sailor has a standalone GPS -- then companies like Garmin and TomTom will shrink substantially .
Those other uses are a very small part of the total market .
Perhaps small enough that they might become expensive custom-made niche items.Add in the fact that cell coverage and bandwidth are increasing .
From an investors standpoint , these are not the companies you want to be investing in , even if their products do survive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everyone has posted reasons that standalone GPS units will still be necessary.
However, these examples are edge cases.
The real question is "How much will Google and Android kill standalone GPS?
"  If every car and cell phone has Google Navigation, and every mountain biker + international traveler + shepherd + sailor has a standalone GPS -- then companies like Garmin and TomTom will shrink substantially.
Those other uses are a very small part of the total market.
Perhaps small enough that they might become expensive custom-made niche items.Add in the fact that cell coverage and bandwidth are increasing.
From an investors standpoint, these are not the companies you want to be investing in, even if their products do survive.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925107</id>
	<title>Re:Needs internet connection</title>
	<author>Andy Dodd</author>
	<datestamp>1256922840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Google has in theory had the ability to do this on the PC platform for years, but they haven't.</p><p>I don't expect to ever see the ability to install a full Google Maps database to an SD card.  Until that happens (which I don't think will happen), TomTom and Garmin will always have a place.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Google has in theory had the ability to do this on the PC platform for years , but they have n't.I do n't expect to ever see the ability to install a full Google Maps database to an SD card .
Until that happens ( which I do n't think will happen ) , TomTom and Garmin will always have a place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Google has in theory had the ability to do this on the PC platform for years, but they haven't.I don't expect to ever see the ability to install a full Google Maps database to an SD card.
Until that happens (which I don't think will happen), TomTom and Garmin will always have a place.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924871</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925911</id>
	<title>Re:Android GPS - works for US only</title>
	<author>phision</author>
	<datestamp>1256926440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> Therefore the only practically viable option unless you don't care how much you spend on your phone costs is by using an offline solution like a Tom-tom or Garmin device.</p></div><p>
Or use software for a smartphone with pre-loaded maps. The only disadvantage I can think of is the low accuracy the smartphone's GPS chips have.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Therefore the only practically viable option unless you do n't care how much you spend on your phone costs is by using an offline solution like a Tom-tom or Garmin device .
Or use software for a smartphone with pre-loaded maps .
The only disadvantage I can think of is the low accuracy the smartphone 's GPS chips have .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Therefore the only practically viable option unless you don't care how much you spend on your phone costs is by using an offline solution like a Tom-tom or Garmin device.
Or use software for a smartphone with pre-loaded maps.
The only disadvantage I can think of is the low accuracy the smartphone's GPS chips have.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924503</parent>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_28</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924393
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924983
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924455
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925261
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_63</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924375
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924603
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925037
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_33</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924455
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925089
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_56</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924673
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29928937
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_47</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924673
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29927901
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_18</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924375
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924603
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926519
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_23</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924503
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924965
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_25</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924425
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926585
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_79</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924315
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925219
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29928509
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_78</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924673
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29928733
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_69</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924375
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924997
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29930249
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_60</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924425
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29927297
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924515
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924881
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_85</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924419
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925617
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_55</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924503
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925647
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_26</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924503
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924771
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_17</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924441
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924935
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925485
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_20</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924445
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29930019
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_45</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924425
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925469
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_16</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924441
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924741
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_50</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924455
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925567
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_77</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924315
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925033
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924315
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925217
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925955
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_82</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924673
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926353
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924773
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29931417
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_67</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924673
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926827
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924315
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925121
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_48</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924425
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29931387
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_39</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924429
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924671
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_72</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924387
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926817
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_42</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924315
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925219
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29927313
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_15</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924673
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926027
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_38</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924375
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924569
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_29</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924425
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29927119
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_32</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924441
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926515
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924375
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924567
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_64</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924503
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925623
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924563
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29929971
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_59</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924673
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29931325
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_80</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924375
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29929897
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_71</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924315
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925217
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29927355
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_37</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924673
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925635
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_70</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924563
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925081
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_61</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924425
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926045
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924315
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925217
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925951
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_40</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924425
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925183
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_31</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924425
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925929
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_54</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924441
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926805
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_27</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924315
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925219
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29928199
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_30</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925537
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29930301
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_21</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924673
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926731
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_86</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924315
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925219
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925957
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_62</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924375
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924949
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925897
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_76</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924441
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924679
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_46</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924673
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926537
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_19</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924315
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925219
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29927639
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925885
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29930043
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_22</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924455
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925597
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_83</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924375
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924875
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_53</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924503
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29928355
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_24</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924757
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925381
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_49</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924503
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926457
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_52</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924375
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924871
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925225
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_43</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924315
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925219
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926467
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924441
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924935
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29929699
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_68</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924441
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29929649
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_84</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924563
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29931087
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_75</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924315
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924695
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925101
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924455
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925331
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_74</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924503
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925911
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_65</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924375
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924871
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925107
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924445
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926197
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_44</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924315
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925217
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29928137
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_35</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925885
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29931435
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_58</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924503
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925313
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_81</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924429
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926053
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_51</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924315
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925217
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926707
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_34</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924375
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925949
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_13</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924393
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925153
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_36</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924315
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925219
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926629
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_41</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924315
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925217
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29934271
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924445
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926249
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_66</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924673
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29937399
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_73</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924503
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924849
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924531
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29928413
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_87</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924315
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925119
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_10_30_1459253_57</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924441
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926915
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29930835
</commentlist>
</thread>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.18</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924773
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29931417
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924387
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926817
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.27</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924813
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924419
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925617
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.19</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924429
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926053
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924671
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.21</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924833
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.16</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924563
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925081
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29929971
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29931087
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924673
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29928937
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926027
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29937399
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926537
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29927901
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29928733
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926353
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925635
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29931325
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926827
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926731
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.13</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924441
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924935
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925485
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29929699
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926805
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29929649
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926515
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924741
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926915
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29930835
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924679
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.24</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924559
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.31</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924425
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925183
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926585
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29927297
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29927119
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29931387
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925469
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926045
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925929
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924531
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29928413
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.22</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924503
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925623
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925911
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924771
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925647
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924965
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924849
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926457
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925313
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29928355
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.25</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924427
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.23</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29929953
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924393
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924983
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925153
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.30</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926033
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924953
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924375
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924949
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925897
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924567
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924871
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925107
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925225
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925949
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29929897
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924603
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925037
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926519
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924997
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29930249
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924875
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924569
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924455
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925089
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925331
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925597
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925261
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925567
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925885
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29931435
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29930043
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924801
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924315
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925121
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925033
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925119
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925219
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29928509
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29928199
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29927313
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925957
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926467
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926629
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29927639
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925217
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926707
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29934271
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29928137
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29927355
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925955
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925951
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924695
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925101
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.28</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925537
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29930301
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.17</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924857
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924515
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924881
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924445
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926249
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29930019
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29926197
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.26</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925129
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924825
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.15</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924971
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.29</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924757
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29925381
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_10_30_1459253.20</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_1459253.29924791
</commentlist>
</conversation>
