<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_10_30_0137217</id>
	<title>New Threats Against Pirate Bay Owners</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1256926320000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.goodgearguide.com.au/" rel="nofollow">angry tapir</a> writes <i>"The Pirate Bay should be closed, and if it isn't, two of the founders will each have to pay a fine of 500,000 Swedish kronor (US$71,500), <a href="http://www.goodgearguide.com.au/article/324322">according to a verdict in the Stockholm District Court</a>.  This time it's Fredrik Neij and Gottfrid Svartholm Warg who are in the court's crosshairs. They have been forced to shut down the site or pay the fine. The court has stated that the site will have to remain closed unless Neij and Warg are exonerated on another similar case they're involved in, which is now on appeal."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>angry tapir writes " The Pirate Bay should be closed , and if it is n't , two of the founders will each have to pay a fine of 500,000 Swedish kronor ( US $ 71,500 ) , according to a verdict in the Stockholm District Court .
This time it 's Fredrik Neij and Gottfrid Svartholm Warg who are in the court 's crosshairs .
They have been forced to shut down the site or pay the fine .
The court has stated that the site will have to remain closed unless Neij and Warg are exonerated on another similar case they 're involved in , which is now on appeal .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>angry tapir writes "The Pirate Bay should be closed, and if it isn't, two of the founders will each have to pay a fine of 500,000 Swedish kronor (US$71,500), according to a verdict in the Stockholm District Court.
This time it's Fredrik Neij and Gottfrid Svartholm Warg who are in the court's crosshairs.
They have been forced to shut down the site or pay the fine.
The court has stated that the site will have to remain closed unless Neij and Warg are exonerated on another similar case they're involved in, which is now on appeal.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29925779</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256925660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"But I'm saying that ThePirateBay doesn't really have a right to exist, based on what the *laws* are."</p><p>"Anyone who argues that it's there for legal content is either an idiot, or one of their lawyers who are trying to use the law to their advantage."</p><p>Those statements are contradictory.  You can't say that it doesn't have the right to exist based on what the laws are, and also say that anyone who argues for it are just trying to use the law to their advantage.  If the "law" is so black and white for you to be able to say it doesn't have a right to exist, then there is no way to argue the law to ones advantage.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" But I 'm saying that ThePirateBay does n't really have a right to exist , based on what the * laws * are .
" " Anyone who argues that it 's there for legal content is either an idiot , or one of their lawyers who are trying to use the law to their advantage .
" Those statements are contradictory .
You ca n't say that it does n't have the right to exist based on what the laws are , and also say that anyone who argues for it are just trying to use the law to their advantage .
If the " law " is so black and white for you to be able to say it does n't have a right to exist , then there is no way to argue the law to ones advantage .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"But I'm saying that ThePirateBay doesn't really have a right to exist, based on what the *laws* are.
""Anyone who argues that it's there for legal content is either an idiot, or one of their lawyers who are trying to use the law to their advantage.
"Those statements are contradictory.
You can't say that it doesn't have the right to exist based on what the laws are, and also say that anyone who argues for it are just trying to use the law to their advantage.
If the "law" is so black and white for you to be able to say it doesn't have a right to exist, then there is no way to argue the law to ones advantage.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921971</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921063</id>
	<title>re</title>
	<author>JohnVanVliet</author>
	<datestamp>1256844660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>there is OneSwarm<nobr> <wbr></nobr>,the p2p/f2f client</htmltext>
<tokenext>there is OneSwarm ,the p2p/f2f client</tokentext>
<sentencetext>there is OneSwarm ,the p2p/f2f client</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29922125</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256905500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>if x was actually placed in memory location 7....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>if x was actually placed in memory location 7... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if x was actually placed in memory location 7....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921237</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29935167</id>
	<title>"It's not piracy, it's sharing"</title>
	<author>bartwol</author>
	<datestamp>1257009960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>It's not piracy, it's sharing. Didn't your parents teach you to share?</p></div></blockquote><p>

Sure they did. So whenever the dorky kid in school brought in something really cool for Show-And-Tell, I'd grab it from him and share it with everybody else. (I always threw it back to him when I was done.)</p><p>

My parents also taught me to ignore dorky kids who crouch in the corner crying.</p><p>

My world is good.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not piracy , it 's sharing .
Did n't your parents teach you to share ?
Sure they did .
So whenever the dorky kid in school brought in something really cool for Show-And-Tell , I 'd grab it from him and share it with everybody else .
( I always threw it back to him when I was done .
) My parents also taught me to ignore dorky kids who crouch in the corner crying .
My world is good .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not piracy, it's sharing.
Didn't your parents teach you to share?
Sure they did.
So whenever the dorky kid in school brought in something really cool for Show-And-Tell, I'd grab it from him and share it with everybody else.
(I always threw it back to him when I was done.
)

My parents also taught me to ignore dorky kids who crouch in the corner crying.
My world is good.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921317</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921035</id>
	<title>Oh dear</title>
	<author>crocodill</author>
	<datestamp>1256844360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sweden stayed neutral during WW2, but have caved to the *AA type mofos.  Therefore *AA mofos = worse than the nazis?  Indeed, it is to ponder.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sweden stayed neutral during WW2 , but have caved to the * AA type mofos .
Therefore * AA mofos = worse than the nazis ?
Indeed , it is to ponder .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sweden stayed neutral during WW2, but have caved to the *AA type mofos.
Therefore *AA mofos = worse than the nazis?
Indeed, it is to ponder.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921317</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256935560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <em>Also, why is this under "Your Rights Online?" Nobody has a right to illegally download copyrighted materials.</em> </p><p>Some astroturfers like to consistently and dishonestly conflate legal rights with ethical and moral rights, not to mention the meta-questions of whether legal rights (really, privileges in this case) should be assigned at all. It is not at all clear that one (1) person should be able to block what potentially billions of people could do, particularly when in the vast majority of cases it's a victimless "crime" (in fact it enriches society) that harms no one (they weren't going to buy it anyway). "Your Rights Online" is a good category to put related articles.</p><p>---</p><p> <em>It's not piracy, it's sharing. Didn't your parents teach you to share?</em> </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Also , why is this under " Your Rights Online ?
" Nobody has a right to illegally download copyrighted materials .
Some astroturfers like to consistently and dishonestly conflate legal rights with ethical and moral rights , not to mention the meta-questions of whether legal rights ( really , privileges in this case ) should be assigned at all .
It is not at all clear that one ( 1 ) person should be able to block what potentially billions of people could do , particularly when in the vast majority of cases it 's a victimless " crime " ( in fact it enriches society ) that harms no one ( they were n't going to buy it anyway ) .
" Your Rights Online " is a good category to put related articles.--- It 's not piracy , it 's sharing .
Did n't your parents teach you to share ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Also, why is this under "Your Rights Online?
" Nobody has a right to illegally download copyrighted materials.
Some astroturfers like to consistently and dishonestly conflate legal rights with ethical and moral rights, not to mention the meta-questions of whether legal rights (really, privileges in this case) should be assigned at all.
It is not at all clear that one (1) person should be able to block what potentially billions of people could do, particularly when in the vast majority of cases it's a victimless "crime" (in fact it enriches society) that harms no one (they weren't going to buy it anyway).
"Your Rights Online" is a good category to put related articles.--- It's not piracy, it's sharing.
Didn't your parents teach you to share? </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921157</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29922079</id>
	<title>Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256904720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Integrity of the judicial process? Yep, so much integrity in fact that they had to violate the procedure in how the juge for the trial is selected, so they could get one who is a board member in one pro-copyright organisation and a member of several others, as well as being socially connected to the representatives of the media companies.</p><p>Also noteworthy is that the judge appointed to investigate the quite foreseeable allegations of bias is a member of the same organisations, and that the police officer started working for Warner Brother even before the date of the indictment.</p><p>Yep, that's integrity of the judicial process for ya. Banana monarchy style.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Integrity of the judicial process ?
Yep , so much integrity in fact that they had to violate the procedure in how the juge for the trial is selected , so they could get one who is a board member in one pro-copyright organisation and a member of several others , as well as being socially connected to the representatives of the media companies.Also noteworthy is that the judge appointed to investigate the quite foreseeable allegations of bias is a member of the same organisations , and that the police officer started working for Warner Brother even before the date of the indictment.Yep , that 's integrity of the judicial process for ya .
Banana monarchy style .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Integrity of the judicial process?
Yep, so much integrity in fact that they had to violate the procedure in how the juge for the trial is selected, so they could get one who is a board member in one pro-copyright organisation and a member of several others, as well as being socially connected to the representatives of the media companies.Also noteworthy is that the judge appointed to investigate the quite foreseeable allegations of bias is a member of the same organisations, and that the police officer started working for Warner Brother even before the date of the indictment.Yep, that's integrity of the judicial process for ya.
Banana monarchy style.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921233</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29932695</id>
	<title>FRENCH (insurer) PIRATES protected by BANK SECRECY</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257020460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>GROUPAMA was caught in a software <b>PIRACY case of $200 million</b> and has made an unofficial affidavit (claiming that it was not guilty) to divert Police investigators from the evidences officially collected one month ago at a different office.</p><p>In its affidavit, GROUPAMA argued that <b>bank secrecy</b> entitled it to limit the scope of Police investigations to a building that was not the place where evidences about the infraction were officially collected.</p><p>After the fraud was discovered and denounced by the victim, as GROUPAMA managed to have the <b>General Prosecutor of Paris to state that Police was 'right' to ignore the criminal file</b> and focus only on the irrelevant information provided by GROUPAMA itself, there is room for serious doubts in the way that affair was conducted.</p><p>As a matter of facts, FINAMA and GROUPAMA have reported false information to the markets regarding their own accounts (where the fraud describbed below has never been reported).</p><p>This unfortunate event is more than likely to compromize the confidence ratings of French (bank and insurance) regulated markets on the proven basis that the numbers cannot be trusted.</p><p>All the details, including the General Prosecutor reply, Police investigation file and the unofficial affidavit cooked by GROUPAMA have been made publicly available:</p><p>http://remoteanything.com/archives/groupama.pdf</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>GROUPAMA was caught in a software PIRACY case of $ 200 million and has made an unofficial affidavit ( claiming that it was not guilty ) to divert Police investigators from the evidences officially collected one month ago at a different office.In its affidavit , GROUPAMA argued that bank secrecy entitled it to limit the scope of Police investigations to a building that was not the place where evidences about the infraction were officially collected.After the fraud was discovered and denounced by the victim , as GROUPAMA managed to have the General Prosecutor of Paris to state that Police was 'right ' to ignore the criminal file and focus only on the irrelevant information provided by GROUPAMA itself , there is room for serious doubts in the way that affair was conducted.As a matter of facts , FINAMA and GROUPAMA have reported false information to the markets regarding their own accounts ( where the fraud describbed below has never been reported ) .This unfortunate event is more than likely to compromize the confidence ratings of French ( bank and insurance ) regulated markets on the proven basis that the numbers can not be trusted.All the details , including the General Prosecutor reply , Police investigation file and the unofficial affidavit cooked by GROUPAMA have been made publicly available : http : //remoteanything.com/archives/groupama.pdf</tokentext>
<sentencetext>GROUPAMA was caught in a software PIRACY case of $200 million and has made an unofficial affidavit (claiming that it was not guilty) to divert Police investigators from the evidences officially collected one month ago at a different office.In its affidavit, GROUPAMA argued that bank secrecy entitled it to limit the scope of Police investigations to a building that was not the place where evidences about the infraction were officially collected.After the fraud was discovered and denounced by the victim, as GROUPAMA managed to have the General Prosecutor of Paris to state that Police was 'right' to ignore the criminal file and focus only on the irrelevant information provided by GROUPAMA itself, there is room for serious doubts in the way that affair was conducted.As a matter of facts, FINAMA and GROUPAMA have reported false information to the markets regarding their own accounts (where the fraud describbed below has never been reported).This unfortunate event is more than likely to compromize the confidence ratings of French (bank and insurance) regulated markets on the proven basis that the numbers cannot be trusted.All the details, including the General Prosecutor reply, Police investigation file and the unofficial affidavit cooked by GROUPAMA have been made publicly available:http://remoteanything.com/archives/groupama.pdf</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29930705</id>
	<title>Re:Time for dynamic torrent content ?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256908800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Freenet is pretty static - something that is fairly fundamental.</p><p>The more anonymity wanted, the more bandwidth it takes, and the more constricted the constraints.</p><p>That said, I'd be interested in seeing some research on the boundaries on the anonymity/flexibility line.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Freenet is pretty static - something that is fairly fundamental.The more anonymity wanted , the more bandwidth it takes , and the more constricted the constraints.That said , I 'd be interested in seeing some research on the boundaries on the anonymity/flexibility line .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Freenet is pretty static - something that is fairly fundamental.The more anonymity wanted, the more bandwidth it takes, and the more constricted the constraints.That said, I'd be interested in seeing some research on the boundaries on the anonymity/flexibility line.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921593</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29923147</id>
	<title>Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256914560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Being a layman and not a lawyer, I am assuming that Swedish courts are assuming a "preponderance of evidence" where a vast portion of torrents are of known copyrighted material on TPB, and P2P traffic accounts for a large majority of internet traffic in general. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that a large percentage of P2P traffic is of copyright infringing material.  In layman's terms, everyone knows 70/80/90+\% of P2P traffic is copyrighted content.</p><p>The entire process, starting in a really high profile way with Napster, but really going back to warez BBSs in the 1980s, exposes a flawed business model and crass manipulation of copyright and IP law to perpetuate the flawed business model. As others have pointed out, alternative torrent hubs, rapidshare, usenet, independent sites like eBookShare and 10 types of sites we haven't thought of yet will only perpetuate the circumvention of this event horizon the content industries and their paid-off government officials are spiraling down in.  They have no real answer that suits their business model.</p><p>But what is needed IS a better business model.  Charge less... sell more... and don't expect 1000\% margins.  The fact that your software is INSANELY expensive and burdened with cumbersome DRM, or that your music company completely shafts your artists giving them a $1 or less per unit, or your television content is FREE FREE FREE, until you switch to subscription model next year (are you listening, Hulu?) only perpetuates people's belief that sharing copyrighted or IP protected content is a act with mitigated culpability. "I'm not reeeeally guilty of something here. Yes, technically its illegal, but come on, these jerks are just screwing us over anyway, so..."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Being a layman and not a lawyer , I am assuming that Swedish courts are assuming a " preponderance of evidence " where a vast portion of torrents are of known copyrighted material on TPB , and P2P traffic accounts for a large majority of internet traffic in general .
Therefore , it is reasonable to assume that a large percentage of P2P traffic is of copyright infringing material .
In layman 's terms , everyone knows 70/80/90 + \ % of P2P traffic is copyrighted content.The entire process , starting in a really high profile way with Napster , but really going back to warez BBSs in the 1980s , exposes a flawed business model and crass manipulation of copyright and IP law to perpetuate the flawed business model .
As others have pointed out , alternative torrent hubs , rapidshare , usenet , independent sites like eBookShare and 10 types of sites we have n't thought of yet will only perpetuate the circumvention of this event horizon the content industries and their paid-off government officials are spiraling down in .
They have no real answer that suits their business model.But what is needed IS a better business model .
Charge less... sell more... and do n't expect 1000 \ % margins .
The fact that your software is INSANELY expensive and burdened with cumbersome DRM , or that your music company completely shafts your artists giving them a $ 1 or less per unit , or your television content is FREE FREE FREE , until you switch to subscription model next year ( are you listening , Hulu ?
) only perpetuates people 's belief that sharing copyrighted or IP protected content is a act with mitigated culpability .
" I 'm not reeeeally guilty of something here .
Yes , technically its illegal , but come on , these jerks are just screwing us over anyway , so... "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Being a layman and not a lawyer, I am assuming that Swedish courts are assuming a "preponderance of evidence" where a vast portion of torrents are of known copyrighted material on TPB, and P2P traffic accounts for a large majority of internet traffic in general.
Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that a large percentage of P2P traffic is of copyright infringing material.
In layman's terms, everyone knows 70/80/90+\% of P2P traffic is copyrighted content.The entire process, starting in a really high profile way with Napster, but really going back to warez BBSs in the 1980s, exposes a flawed business model and crass manipulation of copyright and IP law to perpetuate the flawed business model.
As others have pointed out, alternative torrent hubs, rapidshare, usenet, independent sites like eBookShare and 10 types of sites we haven't thought of yet will only perpetuate the circumvention of this event horizon the content industries and their paid-off government officials are spiraling down in.
They have no real answer that suits their business model.But what is needed IS a better business model.
Charge less... sell more... and don't expect 1000\% margins.
The fact that your software is INSANELY expensive and burdened with cumbersome DRM, or that your music company completely shafts your artists giving them a $1 or less per unit, or your television content is FREE FREE FREE, until you switch to subscription model next year (are you listening, Hulu?
) only perpetuates people's belief that sharing copyrighted or IP protected content is a act with mitigated culpability.
"I'm not reeeeally guilty of something here.
Yes, technically its illegal, but come on, these jerks are just screwing us over anyway, so..."</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921233</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29927685</id>
	<title>Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256934420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I worry for the rule of the law when people can so easily skirt around it in this way.</p></div><p>For honest people, laws are merely an inconvenience to routine.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I worry for the rule of the law when people can so easily skirt around it in this way.For honest people , laws are merely an inconvenience to routine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I worry for the rule of the law when people can so easily skirt around it in this way.For honest people, laws are merely an inconvenience to routine.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921421</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921441</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256894280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Also, why is this under "Your Rights Online?"  Nobody has a right to illegally download copyrighted materials.</p></div><p>Speaking of <em>illegal downloads</em> what's so illegal about it anyway? In my mind, it is (or is it 'it should have been'?) illegal for a person to use software he didn't acquire legally.</p><p>I can't think of a good car analogy, but I'm pretty sure labeling a download as 'illegal' is stupid. It series of 0s and 1s. How can I predict their sequence and how am I supposed to know that a particular sequence of 0s and 1s is someone else's work before using (ie installing / viewing / printing etc) those bytes?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Also , why is this under " Your Rights Online ?
" Nobody has a right to illegally download copyrighted materials.Speaking of illegal downloads what 's so illegal about it anyway ?
In my mind , it is ( or is it 'it should have been ' ?
) illegal for a person to use software he did n't acquire legally.I ca n't think of a good car analogy , but I 'm pretty sure labeling a download as 'illegal ' is stupid .
It series of 0s and 1s .
How can I predict their sequence and how am I supposed to know that a particular sequence of 0s and 1s is someone else 's work before using ( ie installing / viewing / printing etc ) those bytes ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also, why is this under "Your Rights Online?
"  Nobody has a right to illegally download copyrighted materials.Speaking of illegal downloads what's so illegal about it anyway?
In my mind, it is (or is it 'it should have been'?
) illegal for a person to use software he didn't acquire legally.I can't think of a good car analogy, but I'm pretty sure labeling a download as 'illegal' is stupid.
It series of 0s and 1s.
How can I predict their sequence and how am I supposed to know that a particular sequence of 0s and 1s is someone else's work before using (ie installing / viewing / printing etc) those bytes?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921157</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29923235</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>h4rm0ny</author>
	<datestamp>1256915040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><br>
This is where courts come in and use their judgement. It's pretty clear that the Pirate Bay are there to distribute material illegally. A different torrent tracker site might be treated differently. And that's not inconsistent, it's fair - they are different sites and each should be judged according to their statements and actions.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is where courts come in and use their judgement .
It 's pretty clear that the Pirate Bay are there to distribute material illegally .
A different torrent tracker site might be treated differently .
And that 's not inconsistent , it 's fair - they are different sites and each should be judged according to their statements and actions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
This is where courts come in and use their judgement.
It's pretty clear that the Pirate Bay are there to distribute material illegally.
A different torrent tracker site might be treated differently.
And that's not inconsistent, it's fair - they are different sites and each should be judged according to their statements and actions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29922399</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921001</id>
	<title>Oh no!</title>
	<author>nog\_lorp</author>
	<datestamp>1256843880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What will we do without THE ONLY TORRENT TRACKER?</p><p>And we don't even have an alternate tracker that tracks every TPB torrent! If only someone had made OpenBitTorrent.com in time!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What will we do without THE ONLY TORRENT TRACKER ? And we do n't even have an alternate tracker that tracks every TPB torrent !
If only someone had made OpenBitTorrent.com in time !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What will we do without THE ONLY TORRENT TRACKER?And we don't even have an alternate tracker that tracks every TPB torrent!
If only someone had made OpenBitTorrent.com in time!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29926177</id>
	<title>Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1256927700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I have never seen anything legal on TPB, <strong>I'm sure its there somewhere, but its not something I've noticed.</strong></p></div> </blockquote><p>Comprehension is hard when you are irrational, I know.</p><p>Do you really go to TPB to download a Linux torrent?  I go to the site for the distro I want.  Just yesterday I used a torrent to get Mythbuntu<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... from mythbuntu.org.</p><p>Now, if the argument was the opposite I'd agree with you.  Lets say right now that 95\% of TPB is illegal, 5\% legal (which is probably overly generous).  If it was 95\% legal, 5\% legal, I'd side with you.</p><p>But its not.</p><p>Linux may have 1k+ hits, but IF the site were up right now, I bet you'd find more hits for the 'This Is It' movie download alone than you'd find for Linux.  You'd CERTAINLY find more people torrenting the movie than than Linux.  If you think otherwise you have some pretty thick blinders on.</p><p>There are PLENTY of sites that cater to legitimate torrents, TPB isn't one of them, stop trying to justify it that way, you just encourage the content producers and lawyers to make blanket statements like 'torrenting is for warez'.</p><p>Comments like these hurt us more than help us.</p><p>If you expect to be able to keep these sort of sites going for legitimate uses, you really need to NOT deny what is blatantly obvious to everyone.</p><p>The only time I can see people making statements like yours is when they are simply pathological lairs and really believe this nonsense.</p><p>If you want to help, please stop commenting.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have never seen anything legal on TPB , I 'm sure its there somewhere , but its not something I 've noticed .
Comprehension is hard when you are irrational , I know.Do you really go to TPB to download a Linux torrent ?
I go to the site for the distro I want .
Just yesterday I used a torrent to get Mythbuntu ... from mythbuntu.org.Now , if the argument was the opposite I 'd agree with you .
Lets say right now that 95 \ % of TPB is illegal , 5 \ % legal ( which is probably overly generous ) .
If it was 95 \ % legal , 5 \ % legal , I 'd side with you.But its not.Linux may have 1k + hits , but IF the site were up right now , I bet you 'd find more hits for the 'This Is It ' movie download alone than you 'd find for Linux .
You 'd CERTAINLY find more people torrenting the movie than than Linux .
If you think otherwise you have some pretty thick blinders on.There are PLENTY of sites that cater to legitimate torrents , TPB is n't one of them , stop trying to justify it that way , you just encourage the content producers and lawyers to make blanket statements like 'torrenting is for warez'.Comments like these hurt us more than help us.If you expect to be able to keep these sort of sites going for legitimate uses , you really need to NOT deny what is blatantly obvious to everyone.The only time I can see people making statements like yours is when they are simply pathological lairs and really believe this nonsense.If you want to help , please stop commenting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have never seen anything legal on TPB, I'm sure its there somewhere, but its not something I've noticed.
Comprehension is hard when you are irrational, I know.Do you really go to TPB to download a Linux torrent?
I go to the site for the distro I want.
Just yesterday I used a torrent to get Mythbuntu ... from mythbuntu.org.Now, if the argument was the opposite I'd agree with you.
Lets say right now that 95\% of TPB is illegal, 5\% legal (which is probably overly generous).
If it was 95\% legal, 5\% legal, I'd side with you.But its not.Linux may have 1k+ hits, but IF the site were up right now, I bet you'd find more hits for the 'This Is It' movie download alone than you'd find for Linux.
You'd CERTAINLY find more people torrenting the movie than than Linux.
If you think otherwise you have some pretty thick blinders on.There are PLENTY of sites that cater to legitimate torrents, TPB isn't one of them, stop trying to justify it that way, you just encourage the content producers and lawyers to make blanket statements like 'torrenting is for warez'.Comments like these hurt us more than help us.If you expect to be able to keep these sort of sites going for legitimate uses, you really need to NOT deny what is blatantly obvious to everyone.The only time I can see people making statements like yours is when they are simply pathological lairs and really believe this nonsense.If you want to help, please stop commenting.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29922233</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29922171</id>
	<title>music $0.14 per song at soundsbox.com, why pirate?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256906100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I just downloaded 7 CD's at about $1.25 per CD from soundsbox.com. Apparantly businesses like Soundsbox operate from Russia, but are legal there, since they pay royalties to the local version of RIAA, named SIOM I think.<br>The SIOM (or whatever their name is) apparently tried to pay these royalties to the RIAA, but they refused, probably because that would mean agreeing with the practice of Soundsbox.com. BTW there are many businesses like Soundsbox.com, some as cheap as $0.09 per song.</p><p>I think it is legal for me in Netherlands to buy music from them, and possibly even legal in the US. Someone care to comment on that?</p><p>Since copyright laws are different in Russia (and other countries), these companies can operate legally in their jurisdiction. This has landed Russia in hot water with the world trade organisation, but I think they don't care much about that. Anyway, at that level all kinds of politics come into play, and Russia may decide to use it as economic warfare against the USA. Allowing music and movies to be bought for very little from Russia, without paying anything back to the big companies, could effectivily destroy that entire industry. Games like this are played with oil, weapons, political support for issues in the security council etc. The Western media (and software) industry is vulnerable to be used as in a global game.</p><p>Anyway, I think it is legal for me to buy from these companies. Also I get to download what I want (not a fake file), for little, fast, no broken downloads. From a huge database with a wide variety of choice. Why should I still download via torrent sites when companies like these are around? With the risks, the hassle of searching, the uninvited porn, the slow/unreliable downloads?</p><p>RIAA has already lost; they should negotiate a deal with the major torrent sites now, work out a way to work with them, not against them. The RIAA cannot fight Russia, or other countries who are unfriendly against the US, of which there are many...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I just downloaded 7 CD 's at about $ 1.25 per CD from soundsbox.com .
Apparantly businesses like Soundsbox operate from Russia , but are legal there , since they pay royalties to the local version of RIAA , named SIOM I think.The SIOM ( or whatever their name is ) apparently tried to pay these royalties to the RIAA , but they refused , probably because that would mean agreeing with the practice of Soundsbox.com .
BTW there are many businesses like Soundsbox.com , some as cheap as $ 0.09 per song.I think it is legal for me in Netherlands to buy music from them , and possibly even legal in the US .
Someone care to comment on that ? Since copyright laws are different in Russia ( and other countries ) , these companies can operate legally in their jurisdiction .
This has landed Russia in hot water with the world trade organisation , but I think they do n't care much about that .
Anyway , at that level all kinds of politics come into play , and Russia may decide to use it as economic warfare against the USA .
Allowing music and movies to be bought for very little from Russia , without paying anything back to the big companies , could effectivily destroy that entire industry .
Games like this are played with oil , weapons , political support for issues in the security council etc .
The Western media ( and software ) industry is vulnerable to be used as in a global game.Anyway , I think it is legal for me to buy from these companies .
Also I get to download what I want ( not a fake file ) , for little , fast , no broken downloads .
From a huge database with a wide variety of choice .
Why should I still download via torrent sites when companies like these are around ?
With the risks , the hassle of searching , the uninvited porn , the slow/unreliable downloads ? RIAA has already lost ; they should negotiate a deal with the major torrent sites now , work out a way to work with them , not against them .
The RIAA can not fight Russia , or other countries who are unfriendly against the US , of which there are many.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just downloaded 7 CD's at about $1.25 per CD from soundsbox.com.
Apparantly businesses like Soundsbox operate from Russia, but are legal there, since they pay royalties to the local version of RIAA, named SIOM I think.The SIOM (or whatever their name is) apparently tried to pay these royalties to the RIAA, but they refused, probably because that would mean agreeing with the practice of Soundsbox.com.
BTW there are many businesses like Soundsbox.com, some as cheap as $0.09 per song.I think it is legal for me in Netherlands to buy music from them, and possibly even legal in the US.
Someone care to comment on that?Since copyright laws are different in Russia (and other countries), these companies can operate legally in their jurisdiction.
This has landed Russia in hot water with the world trade organisation, but I think they don't care much about that.
Anyway, at that level all kinds of politics come into play, and Russia may decide to use it as economic warfare against the USA.
Allowing music and movies to be bought for very little from Russia, without paying anything back to the big companies, could effectivily destroy that entire industry.
Games like this are played with oil, weapons, political support for issues in the security council etc.
The Western media (and software) industry is vulnerable to be used as in a global game.Anyway, I think it is legal for me to buy from these companies.
Also I get to download what I want (not a fake file), for little, fast, no broken downloads.
From a huge database with a wide variety of choice.
Why should I still download via torrent sites when companies like these are around?
With the risks, the hassle of searching, the uninvited porn, the slow/unreliable downloads?RIAA has already lost; they should negotiate a deal with the major torrent sites now, work out a way to work with them, not against them.
The RIAA cannot fight Russia, or other countries who are unfriendly against the US, of which there are many...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29932797</id>
	<title>Re:Oh no!</title>
	<author>countertrolling</author>
	<datestamp>1257022560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>They'd just pick up indie CDs and republish them as if they were their own.</i></p><p>But the detail you leave out is that there would be no law to protect their exclusivity or claim of ownership. Nobody's going to buy from them if somebody else (the band?) is giving the recordings away for free.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They 'd just pick up indie CDs and republish them as if they were their own.But the detail you leave out is that there would be no law to protect their exclusivity or claim of ownership .
Nobody 's going to buy from them if somebody else ( the band ?
) is giving the recordings away for free .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They'd just pick up indie CDs and republish them as if they were their own.But the detail you leave out is that there would be no law to protect their exclusivity or claim of ownership.
Nobody's going to buy from them if somebody else (the band?
) is giving the recordings away for free.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29926059</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921581</id>
	<title>Re:Oh dear</title>
	<author>Xest</author>
	<datestamp>1256896140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nope, Sweden was neutral. There were issues similar to Switzerland that made it's neutrality questionable though like selling arms to the Nazis, although it did turn a blind eye to allowing the Norwegian resistance and such refuge there also.</p><p>The general consensus from a couple of Swedish friends I have though (although to be fair that doesn't mean this is the national view or anything) is that Sweden took the wrong course of action in the war and should've sided with the allies and that even if it's neutrality was to save it from being dominated by the Nazis like Norway was it should at least have been more neutral and less helpful to the Nazis.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nope , Sweden was neutral .
There were issues similar to Switzerland that made it 's neutrality questionable though like selling arms to the Nazis , although it did turn a blind eye to allowing the Norwegian resistance and such refuge there also.The general consensus from a couple of Swedish friends I have though ( although to be fair that does n't mean this is the national view or anything ) is that Sweden took the wrong course of action in the war and should 've sided with the allies and that even if it 's neutrality was to save it from being dominated by the Nazis like Norway was it should at least have been more neutral and less helpful to the Nazis .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nope, Sweden was neutral.
There were issues similar to Switzerland that made it's neutrality questionable though like selling arms to the Nazis, although it did turn a blind eye to allowing the Norwegian resistance and such refuge there also.The general consensus from a couple of Swedish friends I have though (although to be fair that doesn't mean this is the national view or anything) is that Sweden took the wrong course of action in the war and should've sided with the allies and that even if it's neutrality was to save it from being dominated by the Nazis like Norway was it should at least have been more neutral and less helpful to the Nazis.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921067</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29931533</id>
	<title>Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law</title>
	<author>mariushm</author>
	<datestamp>1256916720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You can't hold me responsible for a murder on my property that I had no idea was going on, didn't see, didn't intentionally facilitate and would have attempted to stop had I known about it..  But when on any given day (in fact several thousand times EVERYDAY), I can look out my window and watch it happening, while I sit and drink my coffee, its a slightly different story.  When the exclusive reason people come to my property is because I'll provide them with information on how to find victims, and then look the other way while they strangle those victims, I am most certainly responsible for the murders as much as the guy doing it.</p>  </div><p>I'm sorry but this is really a bad analogy.</p><p>Look at it in another way: You're the administrator of a hotel. Each day you get people (either man and woman, or just single men/women) coming in and reserving a room for one to three day.</p><p>Should you as an administrator make the assumption that all the people reserving room for one day are actually prostitutes and clients, so you should let them get in their rooms, wait half an hour and then bust in and ask them what they're doing, just to be sure they're not doing prostitution? Or should you just assume that there may be people who come to the city for 2 day conferences and they only need to sleep one night in your hotel?</p><p>If you think you should be allowed to bust in and check each person, you would be the one who thinks it should be Ok for police to raid your hotel and take out all the beds and lingerie and furniture as evidence (just as they took all the servers in the datacenter when TPB was raided) and sue you for allowing prostitution in your premises, because the local association of motels (the riaa/mpaa, the company that's hurt by your competition) sees the number of motel rooms reserved diminishing and they saw two prostitutes in your hotel.</p><p>If you don't think this is OK, you're just like The Pirate Bay, who offers people an infrastructure (the hotel) and people can use them for good (sleep, whatever) or bad (prostitution) purposes.</p><p>ps. I've specifically said man and woman or just single men/women because I assume people would say "the hotel owner would see the same woman checking in, it's obvious she's a prostitute". A man can also reserve room and then call in the city for a prostitute and she goes up his room as a visitor, without bothering to register at the hotel entrance so you can't really tell...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You ca n't hold me responsible for a murder on my property that I had no idea was going on , did n't see , did n't intentionally facilitate and would have attempted to stop had I known about it.. But when on any given day ( in fact several thousand times EVERYDAY ) , I can look out my window and watch it happening , while I sit and drink my coffee , its a slightly different story .
When the exclusive reason people come to my property is because I 'll provide them with information on how to find victims , and then look the other way while they strangle those victims , I am most certainly responsible for the murders as much as the guy doing it .
I 'm sorry but this is really a bad analogy.Look at it in another way : You 're the administrator of a hotel .
Each day you get people ( either man and woman , or just single men/women ) coming in and reserving a room for one to three day.Should you as an administrator make the assumption that all the people reserving room for one day are actually prostitutes and clients , so you should let them get in their rooms , wait half an hour and then bust in and ask them what they 're doing , just to be sure they 're not doing prostitution ?
Or should you just assume that there may be people who come to the city for 2 day conferences and they only need to sleep one night in your hotel ? If you think you should be allowed to bust in and check each person , you would be the one who thinks it should be Ok for police to raid your hotel and take out all the beds and lingerie and furniture as evidence ( just as they took all the servers in the datacenter when TPB was raided ) and sue you for allowing prostitution in your premises , because the local association of motels ( the riaa/mpaa , the company that 's hurt by your competition ) sees the number of motel rooms reserved diminishing and they saw two prostitutes in your hotel.If you do n't think this is OK , you 're just like The Pirate Bay , who offers people an infrastructure ( the hotel ) and people can use them for good ( sleep , whatever ) or bad ( prostitution ) purposes.ps .
I 've specifically said man and woman or just single men/women because I assume people would say " the hotel owner would see the same woman checking in , it 's obvious she 's a prostitute " .
A man can also reserve room and then call in the city for a prostitute and she goes up his room as a visitor , without bothering to register at the hotel entrance so you ca n't really tell.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can't hold me responsible for a murder on my property that I had no idea was going on, didn't see, didn't intentionally facilitate and would have attempted to stop had I known about it..  But when on any given day (in fact several thousand times EVERYDAY), I can look out my window and watch it happening, while I sit and drink my coffee, its a slightly different story.
When the exclusive reason people come to my property is because I'll provide them with information on how to find victims, and then look the other way while they strangle those victims, I am most certainly responsible for the murders as much as the guy doing it.
I'm sorry but this is really a bad analogy.Look at it in another way: You're the administrator of a hotel.
Each day you get people (either man and woman, or just single men/women) coming in and reserving a room for one to three day.Should you as an administrator make the assumption that all the people reserving room for one day are actually prostitutes and clients, so you should let them get in their rooms, wait half an hour and then bust in and ask them what they're doing, just to be sure they're not doing prostitution?
Or should you just assume that there may be people who come to the city for 2 day conferences and they only need to sleep one night in your hotel?If you think you should be allowed to bust in and check each person, you would be the one who thinks it should be Ok for police to raid your hotel and take out all the beds and lingerie and furniture as evidence (just as they took all the servers in the datacenter when TPB was raided) and sue you for allowing prostitution in your premises, because the local association of motels (the riaa/mpaa, the company that's hurt by your competition) sees the number of motel rooms reserved diminishing and they saw two prostitutes in your hotel.If you don't think this is OK, you're just like The Pirate Bay, who offers people an infrastructure (the hotel) and people can use them for good (sleep, whatever) or bad (prostitution) purposes.ps.
I've specifically said man and woman or just single men/women because I assume people would say "the hotel owner would see the same woman checking in, it's obvious she's a prostitute".
A man can also reserve room and then call in the city for a prostitute and she goes up his room as a visitor, without bothering to register at the hotel entrance so you can't really tell...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921421</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29920995</id>
	<title>FAT NIGGER</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256843820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fat nigger faggot cunt.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fat nigger faggot cunt .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fat nigger faggot cunt.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921277</id>
	<title>Re:Oh no!</title>
	<author>TubeSteak</author>
	<datestamp>1256934660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>That's not the point of enforcing the law. You don't leave thieves, embezzlers or whatever alone because there's a lot more of them out there. You catch the ones you can. (No I don't really think the piratebay should be shut down but it IS a stupid argument.)</p></div><p>When the law starts making large portions of the population into criminals, it's time to start changing the law.<br>I say that because the same laws being used to go after TPB are being used to come after you and me. Or is that a stupid argument too?</p><p>The War on Copyright is going exactly like The War on Drugs:<br>A supersize order of Fail with an extra side order of extensive collateral damage.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's not the point of enforcing the law .
You do n't leave thieves , embezzlers or whatever alone because there 's a lot more of them out there .
You catch the ones you can .
( No I do n't really think the piratebay should be shut down but it IS a stupid argument .
) When the law starts making large portions of the population into criminals , it 's time to start changing the law.I say that because the same laws being used to go after TPB are being used to come after you and me .
Or is that a stupid argument too ? The War on Copyright is going exactly like The War on Drugs : A supersize order of Fail with an extra side order of extensive collateral damage .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's not the point of enforcing the law.
You don't leave thieves, embezzlers or whatever alone because there's a lot more of them out there.
You catch the ones you can.
(No I don't really think the piratebay should be shut down but it IS a stupid argument.
)When the law starts making large portions of the population into criminals, it's time to start changing the law.I say that because the same laws being used to go after TPB are being used to come after you and me.
Or is that a stupid argument too?The War on Copyright is going exactly like The War on Drugs:A supersize order of Fail with an extra side order of extensive collateral damage.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921099</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921155</id>
	<title>Re:Oh dear</title>
	<author>afaik\_ianal</author>
	<datestamp>1256845740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>George?  Is that you?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>George ?
Is that you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>George?
Is that you?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921035</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29922283</id>
	<title>The PirateBay are geniuses</title>
	<author>barry\_allen</author>
	<datestamp>1256907480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
TPB stop showing their files, but the torrents are still working perfectly.
</p><p>
TPB is one of the best trackers you could connect to.
</p><p>
I hope they don't close down. I'm sure they will dodge everything the governments throw at them.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>TPB stop showing their files , but the torrents are still working perfectly .
TPB is one of the best trackers you could connect to .
I hope they do n't close down .
I 'm sure they will dodge everything the governments throw at them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
TPB stop showing their files, but the torrents are still working perfectly.
TPB is one of the best trackers you could connect to.
I hope they don't close down.
I'm sure they will dodge everything the governments throw at them.
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29923551</id>
	<title>Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law</title>
	<author>hypergreatthing</author>
	<datestamp>1256916660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>i guess phone books are responsible for murders, maps are responsible for bank robberies, mcdonalds is responsible for heart attacks, cocaine is responsible for drug users, boats are responsible for fishing, etc. etc.</p><p>How about the person infringing on copyright is responsible for copyright infringement and end the insanity at that?</p><p>All they are is providing a map of publicly known information.  They're as responsible as google is when it comes to searching for something relating to a crime.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>i guess phone books are responsible for murders , maps are responsible for bank robberies , mcdonalds is responsible for heart attacks , cocaine is responsible for drug users , boats are responsible for fishing , etc .
etc.How about the person infringing on copyright is responsible for copyright infringement and end the insanity at that ? All they are is providing a map of publicly known information .
They 're as responsible as google is when it comes to searching for something relating to a crime .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i guess phone books are responsible for murders, maps are responsible for bank robberies, mcdonalds is responsible for heart attacks, cocaine is responsible for drug users, boats are responsible for fishing, etc.
etc.How about the person infringing on copyright is responsible for copyright infringement and end the insanity at that?All they are is providing a map of publicly known information.
They're as responsible as google is when it comes to searching for something relating to a crime.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921421</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29924259</id>
	<title>Re:Oh no!</title>
	<author>Pikkebaas</author>
	<datestamp>1256919660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Although you have a point, I must say I always prefer to use TPB for my torrent needs for a variety of reasons:

- lots of trackers
- active community who post comments regarding certain torrents (for example warnings about overdubbed spanish audio on films that has no mention in the torrent title or description)
- verified contributors (for example eztv who reliably upload high quality content)

Most other tracking sites don't provide any information on the torrents.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Although you have a point , I must say I always prefer to use TPB for my torrent needs for a variety of reasons : - lots of trackers - active community who post comments regarding certain torrents ( for example warnings about overdubbed spanish audio on films that has no mention in the torrent title or description ) - verified contributors ( for example eztv who reliably upload high quality content ) Most other tracking sites do n't provide any information on the torrents .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Although you have a point, I must say I always prefer to use TPB for my torrent needs for a variety of reasons:

- lots of trackers
- active community who post comments regarding certain torrents (for example warnings about overdubbed spanish audio on films that has no mention in the torrent title or description)
- verified contributors (for example eztv who reliably upload high quality content)

Most other tracking sites don't provide any information on the torrents.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921001</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29925777</id>
	<title>Anonymous Hero</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256925660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Let the failtards keep going after the Bay. It's like they have no idea about the other 10,000,000,000 ways to get free stuff.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Let the failtards keep going after the Bay .
It 's like they have no idea about the other 10,000,000,000 ways to get free stuff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let the failtards keep going after the Bay.
It's like they have no idea about the other 10,000,000,000 ways to get free stuff.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29922479</id>
	<title>Re:Relocate to a truly independent country!</title>
	<author>Hitman\_Frost</author>
	<datestamp>1256910060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"someday soon you will all just be put to the People's guillotine."</p><p>This is the only rational course of action for them trying to prevent you watching Transformers 2 for free...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/s</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" someday soon you will all just be put to the People 's guillotine .
" This is the only rational course of action for them trying to prevent you watching Transformers 2 for free... /s</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"someday soon you will all just be put to the People's guillotine.
"This is the only rational course of action for them trying to prevent you watching Transformers 2 for free... /s</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29922117</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921939</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256902500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>one person doesn't block what you can do. That person has the sole right to sell copies of a work HE created. Where the fuck do slashdotters pull this bullshit about it being wrong to create something and then sell it?</p><p>If I save up and buy a house, the average slashdotter agrees I own that house FOREVER.<br>If I take the same money and sue it to pay people to make a movie, apparently that movie belongs to everyone, not me, and I am fucking evil if i want to sell tickets.<br>What the fuck are people on who make those sort of pathetic mental gymnastics just to justify their own freeloading and loose morals?</p><p>I wish the 'free!!!!' crowd would fuck off to North Korea where idiots still believe this shit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>one person does n't block what you can do .
That person has the sole right to sell copies of a work HE created .
Where the fuck do slashdotters pull this bullshit about it being wrong to create something and then sell it ? If I save up and buy a house , the average slashdotter agrees I own that house FOREVER.If I take the same money and sue it to pay people to make a movie , apparently that movie belongs to everyone , not me , and I am fucking evil if i want to sell tickets.What the fuck are people on who make those sort of pathetic mental gymnastics just to justify their own freeloading and loose morals ? I wish the 'free ! ! ! !
' crowd would fuck off to North Korea where idiots still believe this shit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>one person doesn't block what you can do.
That person has the sole right to sell copies of a work HE created.
Where the fuck do slashdotters pull this bullshit about it being wrong to create something and then sell it?If I save up and buy a house, the average slashdotter agrees I own that house FOREVER.If I take the same money and sue it to pay people to make a movie, apparently that movie belongs to everyone, not me, and I am fucking evil if i want to sell tickets.What the fuck are people on who make those sort of pathetic mental gymnastics just to justify their own freeloading and loose morals?I wish the 'free!!!!
' crowd would fuck off to North Korea where idiots still believe this shit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921317</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29925533</id>
	<title>Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law</title>
	<author>Draek</author>
	<datestamp>1256924520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Lets face reality though, Pirate Bay exists to facilitate copyright infringement. You really can't deny that, it does not make any attempt what so ever to prevent it.</p></div><p>Wrong. The Pirate Bay exists to facilitate sharing of any data people may desire to, and their failing to prevent copyright infringement is simply the logical continuation of that philosophy. Its the difference between loaning your car knowing it'll be used in a bank robbery, and between loaning your car to whoever asks, some of which are bank robbers.</p><p>Think about that for a minute, and the rest of your post should fall in line.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Lets face reality though , Pirate Bay exists to facilitate copyright infringement .
You really ca n't deny that , it does not make any attempt what so ever to prevent it.Wrong .
The Pirate Bay exists to facilitate sharing of any data people may desire to , and their failing to prevent copyright infringement is simply the logical continuation of that philosophy .
Its the difference between loaning your car knowing it 'll be used in a bank robbery , and between loaning your car to whoever asks , some of which are bank robbers.Think about that for a minute , and the rest of your post should fall in line .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lets face reality though, Pirate Bay exists to facilitate copyright infringement.
You really can't deny that, it does not make any attempt what so ever to prevent it.Wrong.
The Pirate Bay exists to facilitate sharing of any data people may desire to, and their failing to prevent copyright infringement is simply the logical continuation of that philosophy.
Its the difference between loaning your car knowing it'll be used in a bank robbery, and between loaning your car to whoever asks, some of which are bank robbers.Think about that for a minute, and the rest of your post should fall in line.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921421</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29927259</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>ultranova</author>
	<datestamp>1256932440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>While you may compare this to government shutting down legitimate bars that happen to be a gathering place for criminals that sell illegal weapons, there is a difference.</p></div> </blockquote><p>Don't forget that the government only does this because the king has been put under a terrible curse by his trusted advisor, a treacherous magical mouse, and the weapons are being sold to freedom fighters who are preparing to stage a rebellion. The whole thing is being masterminded by an evil undead wizard from his frozen grave.</p><blockquote><div><p>All the criminals would go elsewhere and you'd have the same damn problem, until the evil warlocks responsible monopolize magic bars.</p></div> </blockquote><p>We call these warlocks "lawyers" around here.</p><blockquote><div><p>Then we would have to wait for a hero who can wield the sword of Gargatha to slay these evil warlocks. But there's a rumor that these evil warlocks have been killing virgins to gain immunity to the sword. I don't know what this would be analogous to but I though it would be fun to add.</p></div> </blockquote><p>Well, didn't the RIAA sue a 9-year old at some point? I think she might qualify<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;).</p><p>I like the thing about going after media lawyers with a sword, BTW.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>While you may compare this to government shutting down legitimate bars that happen to be a gathering place for criminals that sell illegal weapons , there is a difference .
Do n't forget that the government only does this because the king has been put under a terrible curse by his trusted advisor , a treacherous magical mouse , and the weapons are being sold to freedom fighters who are preparing to stage a rebellion .
The whole thing is being masterminded by an evil undead wizard from his frozen grave.All the criminals would go elsewhere and you 'd have the same damn problem , until the evil warlocks responsible monopolize magic bars .
We call these warlocks " lawyers " around here.Then we would have to wait for a hero who can wield the sword of Gargatha to slay these evil warlocks .
But there 's a rumor that these evil warlocks have been killing virgins to gain immunity to the sword .
I do n't know what this would be analogous to but I though it would be fun to add .
Well , did n't the RIAA sue a 9-year old at some point ?
I think she might qualify ; ) .I like the thing about going after media lawyers with a sword , BTW .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While you may compare this to government shutting down legitimate bars that happen to be a gathering place for criminals that sell illegal weapons, there is a difference.
Don't forget that the government only does this because the king has been put under a terrible curse by his trusted advisor, a treacherous magical mouse, and the weapons are being sold to freedom fighters who are preparing to stage a rebellion.
The whole thing is being masterminded by an evil undead wizard from his frozen grave.All the criminals would go elsewhere and you'd have the same damn problem, until the evil warlocks responsible monopolize magic bars.
We call these warlocks "lawyers" around here.Then we would have to wait for a hero who can wield the sword of Gargatha to slay these evil warlocks.
But there's a rumor that these evil warlocks have been killing virgins to gain immunity to the sword.
I don't know what this would be analogous to but I though it would be fun to add.
Well, didn't the RIAA sue a 9-year old at some point?
I think she might qualify ;).I like the thing about going after media lawyers with a sword, BTW.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921249</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29922085</id>
	<title>Re:silly companies</title>
	<author>turing\_m</author>
	<datestamp>1256904900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Metallica make music? When did that start then?</p></div></blockquote><p>
Have you listened to any of the first 5 albums?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Metallica make music ?
When did that start then ?
Have you listened to any of the first 5 albums ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Metallica make music?
When did that start then?
Have you listened to any of the first 5 albums?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921589</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29923759</id>
	<title>Re:A mind is a terrible thing to waste.</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1256917560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You have a BT client installed. You click on a link to what you think is a non-infringing file, a song called "scatterbrain" that you know isn't infringing, but you get a different "scatterbrain" - and the infringing file arrives piece by piece to be assembled within your computer. No other action on your part is anticipated or required. So how have you aided and abetted piracy?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You have a BT client installed .
You click on a link to what you think is a non-infringing file , a song called " scatterbrain " that you know is n't infringing , but you get a different " scatterbrain " - and the infringing file arrives piece by piece to be assembled within your computer .
No other action on your part is anticipated or required .
So how have you aided and abetted piracy ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You have a BT client installed.
You click on a link to what you think is a non-infringing file, a song called "scatterbrain" that you know isn't infringing, but you get a different "scatterbrain" - and the infringing file arrives piece by piece to be assembled within your computer.
No other action on your part is anticipated or required.
So how have you aided and abetted piracy?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921905</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29926423</id>
	<title>Not even remotely an accurate article</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256928780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you pay close attention, yes a court in Sweden says "shutdown or pay huge fines"....problem:  TPB doesn't reside in Sweden, nor do those ruled against.  Result:  Yeah, whatever.....business as usual.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you pay close attention , yes a court in Sweden says " shutdown or pay huge fines " ....problem : TPB does n't reside in Sweden , nor do those ruled against .
Result : Yeah , whatever.....business as usual .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you pay close attention, yes a court in Sweden says "shutdown or pay huge fines"....problem:  TPB doesn't reside in Sweden, nor do those ruled against.
Result:  Yeah, whatever.....business as usual.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29933119</id>
	<title>Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256986080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One legal torrent on TPB should also be a proof that the site intention is a general technical support for sharing data, not specifically breaking copyright law. The filtering isn't done because it would require TPB to download content and potentially break copyright law<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One legal torrent on TPB should also be a proof that the site intention is a general technical support for sharing data , not specifically breaking copyright law .
The filtering is n't done because it would require TPB to download content and potentially break copyright law : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One legal torrent on TPB should also be a proof that the site intention is a general technical support for sharing data, not specifically breaking copyright law.
The filtering isn't done because it would require TPB to download content and potentially break copyright law :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921233</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29926059</id>
	<title>Re:Oh no!</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1256927100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The War on Copyright [infringement] is going exactly like The War on [some] Drugs:</i></p><p>Well, not exactly. The drug laws only benefit gangsters and the other people selling drugs and the corrupt officials who benefit from bribery, while copyright law, even though seriously flawed, does protect a few honest people -- like those who publish under the GPL, and other creative folks. If it weren't for copyright, Sony wouldn't need to pay musicians at all. They'd just pick up indie CDs and republish them as if they were their own.</p><p>If copyright law were sane; limited to twenty years, with noncommercial equaling noninfringing, piracy would be a non-issue.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The War on Copyright [ infringement ] is going exactly like The War on [ some ] Drugs : Well , not exactly .
The drug laws only benefit gangsters and the other people selling drugs and the corrupt officials who benefit from bribery , while copyright law , even though seriously flawed , does protect a few honest people -- like those who publish under the GPL , and other creative folks .
If it were n't for copyright , Sony would n't need to pay musicians at all .
They 'd just pick up indie CDs and republish them as if they were their own.If copyright law were sane ; limited to twenty years , with noncommercial equaling noninfringing , piracy would be a non-issue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The War on Copyright [infringement] is going exactly like The War on [some] Drugs:Well, not exactly.
The drug laws only benefit gangsters and the other people selling drugs and the corrupt officials who benefit from bribery, while copyright law, even though seriously flawed, does protect a few honest people -- like those who publish under the GPL, and other creative folks.
If it weren't for copyright, Sony wouldn't need to pay musicians at all.
They'd just pick up indie CDs and republish them as if they were their own.If copyright law were sane; limited to twenty years, with noncommercial equaling noninfringing, piracy would be a non-issue.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921277</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921105</id>
	<title>If one dances...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256845080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...one must pay the piper.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...one must pay the piper .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...one must pay the piper.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29926517</id>
	<title>Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law</title>
	<author>faviann</author>
	<datestamp>1256929140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree with you when you say that the copyright laws need fixing. There's one "aspect" that really bothers and maybe you'll be able to answer me and correct me. <br>
<br>
What's bothering me is that I feel comparing to murder isn't really the right way. It's more like having knives to laying everywhere on you property and people are free to use it the way they want.<br>
<br>
So I agree they're not doing "anything to prevent" murders on their territory. Now I'll get back with my analogy later.<br>
<br>
The Pirate Bay ( as I understand ), was first found guilty because it's considered they facilitates copyright infringement. Now here's my main question. HOW? What do they consider helps facilitating copyright infringement?<br>
<br>
1) Is it DISTRIBUTING usermade torrents? (let's forget about tracking for now)<br>
*I chose the word distributing instead of hosting because hosting can only be illegal if the data itself is illegal (child pornography, video of murders, etc). Remember torrents are free data so hosting is not the issue, distributing is.*<br>
<br>
This would mean that any free data that can be interpreted to ULTIMATELY lead to copyrighted data is illegal. By interpreted I mean software and/or human interpretations alike. In the case of the thepiratebay, we can arguably say that the torrent's software interpretation (free data) "leads directly" to copyrighted data (non-free data).<br>
<br>
If any X free data is responsible for all n level of indirection it leads to, then basically everyone on the internet is assisting copyright infringement. Example on your website (X) you have a link (1) to google (2), google can link you to thepiratebay(3), thepiratebay(3) gives you a link to a torrent(4), which gives you access to a super cool copyrighted-active movie called "RIAA - from zero to hero" (5).<br>
<br>
What data here is the culprit of assisting copyright infringement? If we say X, then the whole internet is illegal. Somehow I doubt that is the right answer. <br>
<br>
If we say that the the n-1 data link (where n is the copyrighted data, which is 5 in our example) is illegal because it then links "directly" (A torrent's actually far from being direct link but for the sake of simplicity of the argument) but the torrent data is considered legal (except the "link" to the copyrighted data). If you decide to extend to a n-2 responsibility, it would be easily bypassed by adding another level of indirection ( like a torrent of a torrent ) and distributing torrents (from thepiratebay) becomes legal again. The users would be the one committing the infringement. The law changing further than n-1 is not really probable since it would expose WAY to many innocent people to lawsuits ( see the joy of software patents trolls<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) ).<br>
Quick note, I'm talking about distributing right now, NOT tracking torrents.<br>
<br>
I hardly understand how distributing torrents can be seen as illegal.<br>
<br>
2) Is it tracking usermade torrents the issue?<br>
*Let me remind you, HOSTING torrents cannot be seen as illegal as it's free data. Distribution though could be seen as illegal (see my earlier section) but I personally doubt it. So if the free files are used without distribution (hence not assisting copyright infringement per se) there can be no issue.<br>
<br>
The only thing a tracker does ( to put it simply again ) is connection together people with the same "interest". That means is doesn't have a CLUE of what the users transfer, and it even doesn't care. You can pretty much see a tracker as an ISP, connecting you to other peers on the net. Peers can be server or other users. If you wanna take the post card analogy good. It's not the tracker's job to ensure that the data transfered between two users is legal distributing data. It's the USER'S job.<br>
<br>
If you don't agree with that ( which is possible ), it basically means you don't agree with the architecture of the whole INTERnet; to be more precise, you don't agree with the decentralized way it works. It's quite understandanble since our "society" works in a cent</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree with you when you say that the copyright laws need fixing .
There 's one " aspect " that really bothers and maybe you 'll be able to answer me and correct me .
What 's bothering me is that I feel comparing to murder is n't really the right way .
It 's more like having knives to laying everywhere on you property and people are free to use it the way they want .
So I agree they 're not doing " anything to prevent " murders on their territory .
Now I 'll get back with my analogy later .
The Pirate Bay ( as I understand ) , was first found guilty because it 's considered they facilitates copyright infringement .
Now here 's my main question .
HOW ? What do they consider helps facilitating copyright infringement ?
1 ) Is it DISTRIBUTING usermade torrents ?
( let 's forget about tracking for now ) * I chose the word distributing instead of hosting because hosting can only be illegal if the data itself is illegal ( child pornography , video of murders , etc ) .
Remember torrents are free data so hosting is not the issue , distributing is .
* This would mean that any free data that can be interpreted to ULTIMATELY lead to copyrighted data is illegal .
By interpreted I mean software and/or human interpretations alike .
In the case of the thepiratebay , we can arguably say that the torrent 's software interpretation ( free data ) " leads directly " to copyrighted data ( non-free data ) .
If any X free data is responsible for all n level of indirection it leads to , then basically everyone on the internet is assisting copyright infringement .
Example on your website ( X ) you have a link ( 1 ) to google ( 2 ) , google can link you to thepiratebay ( 3 ) , thepiratebay ( 3 ) gives you a link to a torrent ( 4 ) , which gives you access to a super cool copyrighted-active movie called " RIAA - from zero to hero " ( 5 ) .
What data here is the culprit of assisting copyright infringement ?
If we say X , then the whole internet is illegal .
Somehow I doubt that is the right answer .
If we say that the the n-1 data link ( where n is the copyrighted data , which is 5 in our example ) is illegal because it then links " directly " ( A torrent 's actually far from being direct link but for the sake of simplicity of the argument ) but the torrent data is considered legal ( except the " link " to the copyrighted data ) .
If you decide to extend to a n-2 responsibility , it would be easily bypassed by adding another level of indirection ( like a torrent of a torrent ) and distributing torrents ( from thepiratebay ) becomes legal again .
The users would be the one committing the infringement .
The law changing further than n-1 is not really probable since it would expose WAY to many innocent people to lawsuits ( see the joy of software patents trolls : ) ) .
Quick note , I 'm talking about distributing right now , NOT tracking torrents .
I hardly understand how distributing torrents can be seen as illegal .
2 ) Is it tracking usermade torrents the issue ?
* Let me remind you , HOSTING torrents can not be seen as illegal as it 's free data .
Distribution though could be seen as illegal ( see my earlier section ) but I personally doubt it .
So if the free files are used without distribution ( hence not assisting copyright infringement per se ) there can be no issue .
The only thing a tracker does ( to put it simply again ) is connection together people with the same " interest " .
That means is does n't have a CLUE of what the users transfer , and it even does n't care .
You can pretty much see a tracker as an ISP , connecting you to other peers on the net .
Peers can be server or other users .
If you wan na take the post card analogy good .
It 's not the tracker 's job to ensure that the data transfered between two users is legal distributing data .
It 's the USER 'S job .
If you do n't agree with that ( which is possible ) , it basically means you do n't agree with the architecture of the whole INTERnet ; to be more precise , you do n't agree with the decentralized way it works .
It 's quite understandanble since our " society " works in a cent</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree with you when you say that the copyright laws need fixing.
There's one "aspect" that really bothers and maybe you'll be able to answer me and correct me.
What's bothering me is that I feel comparing to murder isn't really the right way.
It's more like having knives to laying everywhere on you property and people are free to use it the way they want.
So I agree they're not doing "anything to prevent" murders on their territory.
Now I'll get back with my analogy later.
The Pirate Bay ( as I understand ), was first found guilty because it's considered they facilitates copyright infringement.
Now here's my main question.
HOW? What do they consider helps facilitating copyright infringement?
1) Is it DISTRIBUTING usermade torrents?
(let's forget about tracking for now)
*I chose the word distributing instead of hosting because hosting can only be illegal if the data itself is illegal (child pornography, video of murders, etc).
Remember torrents are free data so hosting is not the issue, distributing is.
*

This would mean that any free data that can be interpreted to ULTIMATELY lead to copyrighted data is illegal.
By interpreted I mean software and/or human interpretations alike.
In the case of the thepiratebay, we can arguably say that the torrent's software interpretation (free data) "leads directly" to copyrighted data (non-free data).
If any X free data is responsible for all n level of indirection it leads to, then basically everyone on the internet is assisting copyright infringement.
Example on your website (X) you have a link (1) to google (2), google can link you to thepiratebay(3), thepiratebay(3) gives you a link to a torrent(4), which gives you access to a super cool copyrighted-active movie called "RIAA - from zero to hero" (5).
What data here is the culprit of assisting copyright infringement?
If we say X, then the whole internet is illegal.
Somehow I doubt that is the right answer.
If we say that the the n-1 data link (where n is the copyrighted data, which is 5 in our example) is illegal because it then links "directly" (A torrent's actually far from being direct link but for the sake of simplicity of the argument) but the torrent data is considered legal (except the "link" to the copyrighted data).
If you decide to extend to a n-2 responsibility, it would be easily bypassed by adding another level of indirection ( like a torrent of a torrent ) and distributing torrents (from thepiratebay) becomes legal again.
The users would be the one committing the infringement.
The law changing further than n-1 is not really probable since it would expose WAY to many innocent people to lawsuits ( see the joy of software patents trolls :) ).
Quick note, I'm talking about distributing right now, NOT tracking torrents.
I hardly understand how distributing torrents can be seen as illegal.
2) Is it tracking usermade torrents the issue?
*Let me remind you, HOSTING torrents cannot be seen as illegal as it's free data.
Distribution though could be seen as illegal (see my earlier section) but I personally doubt it.
So if the free files are used without distribution (hence not assisting copyright infringement per se) there can be no issue.
The only thing a tracker does ( to put it simply again ) is connection together people with the same "interest".
That means is doesn't have a CLUE of what the users transfer, and it even doesn't care.
You can pretty much see a tracker as an ISP, connecting you to other peers on the net.
Peers can be server or other users.
If you wanna take the post card analogy good.
It's not the tracker's job to ensure that the data transfered between two users is legal distributing data.
It's the USER'S job.
If you don't agree with that ( which is possible ), it basically means you don't agree with the architecture of the whole INTERnet; to be more precise, you don't agree with the decentralized way it works.
It's quite understandanble since our "society" works in a cent</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921421</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29922119</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>Ofloo</author>
	<datestamp>1256905380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Exactly i feel the same way, soon you'll get sued for just saying there is a site with torrents,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. this is freedom of speech.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly i feel the same way , soon you 'll get sued for just saying there is a site with torrents , .. this is freedom of speech .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly i feel the same way, soon you'll get sued for just saying there is a site with torrents, .. this is freedom of speech.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921237</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29924131</id>
	<title>Re:Relocate to a truly independent country!</title>
	<author>justinlee37</author>
	<datestamp>1256919120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Cuba? The country that only recently decided to "allow" it's citizens to have access to personal computers? You're seriously holding up CUBA as an example of a free country? And North Korea? The country that doesn't allow any printed material or videocameras into it's borders, and worships it's supreme dictator as a God? You're holding up CUBA and NORTH KOREA as examples of freedom? Give me a fucking break. You've been brainwashed by communist propaganda.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Cuba ?
The country that only recently decided to " allow " it 's citizens to have access to personal computers ?
You 're seriously holding up CUBA as an example of a free country ?
And North Korea ?
The country that does n't allow any printed material or videocameras into it 's borders , and worships it 's supreme dictator as a God ?
You 're holding up CUBA and NORTH KOREA as examples of freedom ?
Give me a fucking break .
You 've been brainwashed by communist propaganda .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cuba?
The country that only recently decided to "allow" it's citizens to have access to personal computers?
You're seriously holding up CUBA as an example of a free country?
And North Korea?
The country that doesn't allow any printed material or videocameras into it's borders, and worships it's supreme dictator as a God?
You're holding up CUBA and NORTH KOREA as examples of freedom?
Give me a fucking break.
You've been brainwashed by communist propaganda.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29922117</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29925335</id>
	<title>Re:A mind is a terrible thing to waste.</title>
	<author>Draek</author>
	<datestamp>1256923620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Watching a geek self-destruct in the courtroom is one of life's most innocent pleasures.</p></div><p>And watching a geek give legal advice online without being a lawyer is another one.</p><p>Now, I'm not a lawyer either and this is not legal advice, but I do know that whether torrents themselves can constitute copyright infringement depending of the contents of the file they point out depends on a *huge* amount of factors that I'm unable and unwilling to research for myself, let alone somebody else so go pay a lawyer if you really wanna know.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Watching a geek self-destruct in the courtroom is one of life 's most innocent pleasures.And watching a geek give legal advice online without being a lawyer is another one.Now , I 'm not a lawyer either and this is not legal advice , but I do know that whether torrents themselves can constitute copyright infringement depending of the contents of the file they point out depends on a * huge * amount of factors that I 'm unable and unwilling to research for myself , let alone somebody else so go pay a lawyer if you really wan na know .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Watching a geek self-destruct in the courtroom is one of life's most innocent pleasures.And watching a geek give legal advice online without being a lawyer is another one.Now, I'm not a lawyer either and this is not legal advice, but I do know that whether torrents themselves can constitute copyright infringement depending of the contents of the file they point out depends on a *huge* amount of factors that I'm unable and unwilling to research for myself, let alone somebody else so go pay a lawyer if you really wanna know.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921905</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29923715</id>
	<title>hair metal</title>
	<author>Weezul</author>
	<datestamp>1256917320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I just love how all the Metallica fans derided the pop "hair metal" bands, but ultimately Metalica showed themselves as the ultimate "hair metal" band, i.e.  they lost all their talent when they cut off their hair!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I just love how all the Metallica fans derided the pop " hair metal " bands , but ultimately Metalica showed themselves as the ultimate " hair metal " band , i.e .
they lost all their talent when they cut off their hair !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just love how all the Metallica fans derided the pop "hair metal" bands, but ultimately Metalica showed themselves as the ultimate "hair metal" band, i.e.
they lost all their talent when they cut off their hair!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921457</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921593</id>
	<title>Time for dynamic torrent content ?</title>
	<author>bug1</author>
	<datestamp>1256896440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Imagine if a torrent could contain dynamic content, like a web page.</p><p>You download the torrent, the content has say thepiratebay.org indexed, <i>somehow</i> the creater of the official torrent can modify the files pointed to by the torrent, and thus make the piratebay itself distributed. Synchronization might be tricky...</p><p>Maybe it wouldnt work, but in any case, i look forward to seeing what great new technology all this enforcement brings us.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Imagine if a torrent could contain dynamic content , like a web page.You download the torrent , the content has say thepiratebay.org indexed , somehow the creater of the official torrent can modify the files pointed to by the torrent , and thus make the piratebay itself distributed .
Synchronization might be tricky...Maybe it wouldnt work , but in any case , i look forward to seeing what great new technology all this enforcement brings us .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Imagine if a torrent could contain dynamic content, like a web page.You download the torrent, the content has say thepiratebay.org indexed, somehow the creater of the official torrent can modify the files pointed to by the torrent, and thus make the piratebay itself distributed.
Synchronization might be tricky...Maybe it wouldnt work, but in any case, i look forward to seeing what great new technology all this enforcement brings us.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921275</id>
	<title>silly companies</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256934660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's hilarious these people think going after top sites will change anything.  The only people enjoying all of this is the lawyers making huge bankrolls during the court process.</p><p>When/if pirate bay goes down another 10 torrent sites will rise up to take the reigns.  You can't stop it and never will.  They should have learned that from Napster.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's hilarious these people think going after top sites will change anything .
The only people enjoying all of this is the lawyers making huge bankrolls during the court process.When/if pirate bay goes down another 10 torrent sites will rise up to take the reigns .
You ca n't stop it and never will .
They should have learned that from Napster .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's hilarious these people think going after top sites will change anything.
The only people enjoying all of this is the lawyers making huge bankrolls during the court process.When/if pirate bay goes down another 10 torrent sites will rise up to take the reigns.
You can't stop it and never will.
They should have learned that from Napster.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29930433</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>Carnildo</author>
	<datestamp>1256906820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The mandatory car analogy:  I have the right to give you a ride from the bank to your house.  But if I do so with the knowlege that you've just robbed said bank, I can be charged with "accessory after the fact to bank robbery".</p><p>Laws are as much about context and intention as they are about actions.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The mandatory car analogy : I have the right to give you a ride from the bank to your house .
But if I do so with the knowlege that you 've just robbed said bank , I can be charged with " accessory after the fact to bank robbery " .Laws are as much about context and intention as they are about actions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The mandatory car analogy:  I have the right to give you a ride from the bank to your house.
But if I do so with the knowlege that you've just robbed said bank, I can be charged with "accessory after the fact to bank robbery".Laws are as much about context and intention as they are about actions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921237</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29922281</id>
	<title>Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256907420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Mod up - thanks for the explanation.</p><p>I just can't think why this does not apply to the equally pernicious crime of<br>1) GFC financial instruments - Can't we tar bankers with this broad brush?</p><p>2) Why the shutdown before anything is proven (setting aside law of evidence ) seems cause for appeal.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mod up - thanks for the explanation.I just ca n't think why this does not apply to the equally pernicious crime of1 ) GFC financial instruments - Ca n't we tar bankers with this broad brush ? 2 ) Why the shutdown before anything is proven ( setting aside law of evidence ) seems cause for appeal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mod up - thanks for the explanation.I just can't think why this does not apply to the equally pernicious crime of1) GFC financial instruments - Can't we tar bankers with this broad brush?2) Why the shutdown before anything is proven (setting aside law of evidence ) seems cause for appeal.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921233</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29923081</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>Whorhay</author>
	<datestamp>1256914200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually you own that house only so long as you pay the appropriate taxes and maintain the property according to local ordincances. The healthiest way to look at any real estate is that you are constantly renting it from the government. And regardless this is a completely invalid arguement in copyright matters because someone can not in a mater of seconds or even hours create an exact duplicate of your house for a few cents worth of electricity.</p><p>You would own the copyrights for that movie. Copyrights are an artificial grant from the government designed to foster and encourage creation of new media to enrich our culture as it eventually enters the Public Domain. The laws regarding the terms of Copyrights have become to out of whack with the general publics desire that those laws are no longer respected by a huge proportion of of the public. Somewhere there's a quote about laws that no one respects being worthless.</p><p>The people making those justifications disagree with the terms of copyright law as it exists today. It is entirely possible that even with more reasonable terms they would not respect the law. But the law does not currently allow a distinction between violating a copyright on something created 50 years ago and a movie that hasn't even hit theatre's yet, so while you are breaking this set of laws you might as well go whole hog.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually you own that house only so long as you pay the appropriate taxes and maintain the property according to local ordincances .
The healthiest way to look at any real estate is that you are constantly renting it from the government .
And regardless this is a completely invalid arguement in copyright matters because someone can not in a mater of seconds or even hours create an exact duplicate of your house for a few cents worth of electricity.You would own the copyrights for that movie .
Copyrights are an artificial grant from the government designed to foster and encourage creation of new media to enrich our culture as it eventually enters the Public Domain .
The laws regarding the terms of Copyrights have become to out of whack with the general publics desire that those laws are no longer respected by a huge proportion of of the public .
Somewhere there 's a quote about laws that no one respects being worthless.The people making those justifications disagree with the terms of copyright law as it exists today .
It is entirely possible that even with more reasonable terms they would not respect the law .
But the law does not currently allow a distinction between violating a copyright on something created 50 years ago and a movie that has n't even hit theatre 's yet , so while you are breaking this set of laws you might as well go whole hog .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually you own that house only so long as you pay the appropriate taxes and maintain the property according to local ordincances.
The healthiest way to look at any real estate is that you are constantly renting it from the government.
And regardless this is a completely invalid arguement in copyright matters because someone can not in a mater of seconds or even hours create an exact duplicate of your house for a few cents worth of electricity.You would own the copyrights for that movie.
Copyrights are an artificial grant from the government designed to foster and encourage creation of new media to enrich our culture as it eventually enters the Public Domain.
The laws regarding the terms of Copyrights have become to out of whack with the general publics desire that those laws are no longer respected by a huge proportion of of the public.
Somewhere there's a quote about laws that no one respects being worthless.The people making those justifications disagree with the terms of copyright law as it exists today.
It is entirely possible that even with more reasonable terms they would not respect the law.
But the law does not currently allow a distinction between violating a copyright on something created 50 years ago and a movie that hasn't even hit theatre's yet, so while you are breaking this set of laws you might as well go whole hog.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921939</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29929425</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>j00r0m4nc3r</author>
	<datestamp>1256900700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>Fact is, ThePirateBay was created, and exists as a source for illegal downloads. Anyone who argues that it's there for legal content is either an idiot, or one of their lawyers who are trying to use the law to their advantage.</i> <br> <br>
What illegal content does the PB host?  Does someone who links to PB also contain illegal content? Does someone who links to the site that links to PB also contain illegal content?<br> <br>
The real fact is that PB hosts torrents, nothing more. They say, "here is where to find stuff". It's like if I tell someone, "I know this place downtown where you can get prostitutes." Is it illegal for me to tell someone that? If I write it down on paper and hand that paper to someone is that illegal? No, neither of those things are illegal. Infringing copyright is illegal. PB does not host a single item which is illegal. I side with PB, not because I care about illegal downloads, but because all they do is publish non-copyrighted information and when we start saying what you can and cannot publish we start down a very dark path...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Fact is , ThePirateBay was created , and exists as a source for illegal downloads .
Anyone who argues that it 's there for legal content is either an idiot , or one of their lawyers who are trying to use the law to their advantage .
What illegal content does the PB host ?
Does someone who links to PB also contain illegal content ?
Does someone who links to the site that links to PB also contain illegal content ?
The real fact is that PB hosts torrents , nothing more .
They say , " here is where to find stuff " .
It 's like if I tell someone , " I know this place downtown where you can get prostitutes .
" Is it illegal for me to tell someone that ?
If I write it down on paper and hand that paper to someone is that illegal ?
No , neither of those things are illegal .
Infringing copyright is illegal .
PB does not host a single item which is illegal .
I side with PB , not because I care about illegal downloads , but because all they do is publish non-copyrighted information and when we start saying what you can and can not publish we start down a very dark path.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fact is, ThePirateBay was created, and exists as a source for illegal downloads.
Anyone who argues that it's there for legal content is either an idiot, or one of their lawyers who are trying to use the law to their advantage.
What illegal content does the PB host?
Does someone who links to PB also contain illegal content?
Does someone who links to the site that links to PB also contain illegal content?
The real fact is that PB hosts torrents, nothing more.
They say, "here is where to find stuff".
It's like if I tell someone, "I know this place downtown where you can get prostitutes.
" Is it illegal for me to tell someone that?
If I write it down on paper and hand that paper to someone is that illegal?
No, neither of those things are illegal.
Infringing copyright is illegal.
PB does not host a single item which is illegal.
I side with PB, not because I care about illegal downloads, but because all they do is publish non-copyrighted information and when we start saying what you can and cannot publish we start down a very dark path...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921971</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29923953</id>
	<title>Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law</title>
	<author>vivaelamor</author>
	<datestamp>1256918340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Lets face reality though, Pirate Bay exists to facilitate copyright infringement. You really can't deny that, it does not make any attempt what so ever to prevent it. It was created by an anti-copyright organization.</p></div><p>No, they exist to share files. The consequences of providing this service is many people share copyrighted material; I agree that the people running the pirate bay have demonstrated they have no problem with this. You are wrong in saying it exists to facilitate copyright infringement because if copyright was not an issue then the site would still exist to share non copyrighted material.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>You can't hold me responsible for a murder on my property that I had no idea was going on, didn't see, didn't intentionally facilitate and would have attempted to stop had I known about it.. But when on any given day (in fact several thousand times EVERYDAY), I can look out my window and watch it happening, while I sit and drink my coffee, its a slightly different story. When the exclusive reason people come to my property is because I'll provide them with information on how to find victims, and then look the other way while they strangle those victims, I am most certainly responsible for the murders as much as the guy doing it. They can't even say 'I was just following orders', unless you think that was a valid excuse for Hitler as well, considering he was giving the orders, I don't think anyone would go that far would they?</p><p>I wouldn't expect the courts to allow someone watching these murders to take place and not do anything about it, I hope you don't either.</p><p>Why do we feel any different about Pirate Bay?</p><p>Simple, no one really feels that copyright infringement is a crime on the order of magnitude that the content producers want to treat it. If you want to fix the problem, change copyright law, don't allow loopholes around it. Change the law that is the problem.</p></div><p>The only thing copyright infringement has in common with murder is that both of them are considered unlawful. It may be an effective emotive device to draw a comparison between copyright infringement and murder but I think the argument could be summed up 'people should respect the law'.</p><p>There is a lot of precedent to contest this. We largely got where we are today by people ignoring laws they did not agree with, for example the Boston Tea Party is widely regarded as a justified case of direct action, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil\_disobedience" title="wikipedia.org">Wikipedia has many more examples</a> [wikipedia.org].  </p><p>Bad law has the inevitable effect of reducing the respect for good law, in defending the respect for law as a whole you are defending bad law and exacerbating the problem. In showing a disagreement with bad law you can strengthen good law by highlighting the reasons behind it. Consider the chicken and egg scenario: what came first? Law or reason? It is obvious to most that reason came before law but If respect for the law is a goal then that implies that law is an ends rather than a means. When law becomes the ends then the pursuit of reason becomes diminished by the pursuit of law. If people start basing their choices on whether something is lawful then they lose the ability to reason which is far more important than the ability to follow law.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>I worry for the rule of the law when people can so easily skirt around it in this way.</p></div><p>I worry when we are ruled by law rather than reason. A famous philosopher once said that philosophy allowed him to do by choice what others did by the rule of law, to say that law is more important than reason is to take the power of people to reason for themselves away from them.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>When you make comments like yours, and people mod them insightful, it just makes the anti-copyright movement seem all the more illegitimate. Take legalized racism in America for example. Riots and violence didn't make it go away, it just got people killed and hurt those being wronged more than those doing the wrong. Peaceful and law abiding protest on a massive scale got it to go away (more or less, we're still working on it). Breaking the law won't get it changed, voting can however. Do your job as a citizen and you can fix the problem, IF its actually important enough to you to invest the time to do so.</p></div><p>Here we get to the nub of it, the choice between being a good citizen and a rebel. I am a citizen by definition, I don't need to be validated by having never broken a law and care not whether the system views me as a good or bad citizen. I disagree with the notion that we'd stand a better chance at getting the laws changed if there was no piracy. If there was no piracy then in a few generations no one will know what it means to share files and will not recognise the need for the law to change. If everyone stopped smoking marijuana in order to get it legalised and said to the next generation 'don't do that, it's illegal' what reason would they have to vote to legalise it? (btw, I don't even drink alcohol let alone smoke drugs but I'll defend peoples rights all the same). I think it is imperative to keep doing something you believe in because to do otherwise is to let the matter die.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Lets face reality though , Pirate Bay exists to facilitate copyright infringement .
You really ca n't deny that , it does not make any attempt what so ever to prevent it .
It was created by an anti-copyright organization.No , they exist to share files .
The consequences of providing this service is many people share copyrighted material ; I agree that the people running the pirate bay have demonstrated they have no problem with this .
You are wrong in saying it exists to facilitate copyright infringement because if copyright was not an issue then the site would still exist to share non copyrighted material.You ca n't hold me responsible for a murder on my property that I had no idea was going on , did n't see , did n't intentionally facilitate and would have attempted to stop had I known about it.. But when on any given day ( in fact several thousand times EVERYDAY ) , I can look out my window and watch it happening , while I sit and drink my coffee , its a slightly different story .
When the exclusive reason people come to my property is because I 'll provide them with information on how to find victims , and then look the other way while they strangle those victims , I am most certainly responsible for the murders as much as the guy doing it .
They ca n't even say 'I was just following orders ' , unless you think that was a valid excuse for Hitler as well , considering he was giving the orders , I do n't think anyone would go that far would they ? I would n't expect the courts to allow someone watching these murders to take place and not do anything about it , I hope you do n't either.Why do we feel any different about Pirate Bay ? Simple , no one really feels that copyright infringement is a crime on the order of magnitude that the content producers want to treat it .
If you want to fix the problem , change copyright law , do n't allow loopholes around it .
Change the law that is the problem.The only thing copyright infringement has in common with murder is that both of them are considered unlawful .
It may be an effective emotive device to draw a comparison between copyright infringement and murder but I think the argument could be summed up 'people should respect the law'.There is a lot of precedent to contest this .
We largely got where we are today by people ignoring laws they did not agree with , for example the Boston Tea Party is widely regarded as a justified case of direct action , Wikipedia has many more examples [ wikipedia.org ] .
Bad law has the inevitable effect of reducing the respect for good law , in defending the respect for law as a whole you are defending bad law and exacerbating the problem .
In showing a disagreement with bad law you can strengthen good law by highlighting the reasons behind it .
Consider the chicken and egg scenario : what came first ?
Law or reason ?
It is obvious to most that reason came before law but If respect for the law is a goal then that implies that law is an ends rather than a means .
When law becomes the ends then the pursuit of reason becomes diminished by the pursuit of law .
If people start basing their choices on whether something is lawful then they lose the ability to reason which is far more important than the ability to follow law.I worry for the rule of the law when people can so easily skirt around it in this way.I worry when we are ruled by law rather than reason .
A famous philosopher once said that philosophy allowed him to do by choice what others did by the rule of law , to say that law is more important than reason is to take the power of people to reason for themselves away from them.When you make comments like yours , and people mod them insightful , it just makes the anti-copyright movement seem all the more illegitimate .
Take legalized racism in America for example .
Riots and violence did n't make it go away , it just got people killed and hurt those being wronged more than those doing the wrong .
Peaceful and law abiding protest on a massive scale got it to go away ( more or less , we 're still working on it ) .
Breaking the law wo n't get it changed , voting can however .
Do your job as a citizen and you can fix the problem , IF its actually important enough to you to invest the time to do so.Here we get to the nub of it , the choice between being a good citizen and a rebel .
I am a citizen by definition , I do n't need to be validated by having never broken a law and care not whether the system views me as a good or bad citizen .
I disagree with the notion that we 'd stand a better chance at getting the laws changed if there was no piracy .
If there was no piracy then in a few generations no one will know what it means to share files and will not recognise the need for the law to change .
If everyone stopped smoking marijuana in order to get it legalised and said to the next generation 'do n't do that , it 's illegal ' what reason would they have to vote to legalise it ?
( btw , I do n't even drink alcohol let alone smoke drugs but I 'll defend peoples rights all the same ) .
I think it is imperative to keep doing something you believe in because to do otherwise is to let the matter die .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lets face reality though, Pirate Bay exists to facilitate copyright infringement.
You really can't deny that, it does not make any attempt what so ever to prevent it.
It was created by an anti-copyright organization.No, they exist to share files.
The consequences of providing this service is many people share copyrighted material; I agree that the people running the pirate bay have demonstrated they have no problem with this.
You are wrong in saying it exists to facilitate copyright infringement because if copyright was not an issue then the site would still exist to share non copyrighted material.You can't hold me responsible for a murder on my property that I had no idea was going on, didn't see, didn't intentionally facilitate and would have attempted to stop had I known about it.. But when on any given day (in fact several thousand times EVERYDAY), I can look out my window and watch it happening, while I sit and drink my coffee, its a slightly different story.
When the exclusive reason people come to my property is because I'll provide them with information on how to find victims, and then look the other way while they strangle those victims, I am most certainly responsible for the murders as much as the guy doing it.
They can't even say 'I was just following orders', unless you think that was a valid excuse for Hitler as well, considering he was giving the orders, I don't think anyone would go that far would they?I wouldn't expect the courts to allow someone watching these murders to take place and not do anything about it, I hope you don't either.Why do we feel any different about Pirate Bay?Simple, no one really feels that copyright infringement is a crime on the order of magnitude that the content producers want to treat it.
If you want to fix the problem, change copyright law, don't allow loopholes around it.
Change the law that is the problem.The only thing copyright infringement has in common with murder is that both of them are considered unlawful.
It may be an effective emotive device to draw a comparison between copyright infringement and murder but I think the argument could be summed up 'people should respect the law'.There is a lot of precedent to contest this.
We largely got where we are today by people ignoring laws they did not agree with, for example the Boston Tea Party is widely regarded as a justified case of direct action, Wikipedia has many more examples [wikipedia.org].
Bad law has the inevitable effect of reducing the respect for good law, in defending the respect for law as a whole you are defending bad law and exacerbating the problem.
In showing a disagreement with bad law you can strengthen good law by highlighting the reasons behind it.
Consider the chicken and egg scenario: what came first?
Law or reason?
It is obvious to most that reason came before law but If respect for the law is a goal then that implies that law is an ends rather than a means.
When law becomes the ends then the pursuit of reason becomes diminished by the pursuit of law.
If people start basing their choices on whether something is lawful then they lose the ability to reason which is far more important than the ability to follow law.I worry for the rule of the law when people can so easily skirt around it in this way.I worry when we are ruled by law rather than reason.
A famous philosopher once said that philosophy allowed him to do by choice what others did by the rule of law, to say that law is more important than reason is to take the power of people to reason for themselves away from them.When you make comments like yours, and people mod them insightful, it just makes the anti-copyright movement seem all the more illegitimate.
Take legalized racism in America for example.
Riots and violence didn't make it go away, it just got people killed and hurt those being wronged more than those doing the wrong.
Peaceful and law abiding protest on a massive scale got it to go away (more or less, we're still working on it).
Breaking the law won't get it changed, voting can however.
Do your job as a citizen and you can fix the problem, IF its actually important enough to you to invest the time to do so.Here we get to the nub of it, the choice between being a good citizen and a rebel.
I am a citizen by definition, I don't need to be validated by having never broken a law and care not whether the system views me as a good or bad citizen.
I disagree with the notion that we'd stand a better chance at getting the laws changed if there was no piracy.
If there was no piracy then in a few generations no one will know what it means to share files and will not recognise the need for the law to change.
If everyone stopped smoking marijuana in order to get it legalised and said to the next generation 'don't do that, it's illegal' what reason would they have to vote to legalise it?
(btw, I don't even drink alcohol let alone smoke drugs but I'll defend peoples rights all the same).
I think it is imperative to keep doing something you believe in because to do otherwise is to let the matter die.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921421</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921527</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>Exception Duck</author>
	<datestamp>1256895420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Depends if you mean a legal or a moral right.</p><p>I think I have a legal right to download copyrighted material in my country.</p><p>Just can't watch it<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Depends if you mean a legal or a moral right.I think I have a legal right to download copyrighted material in my country.Just ca n't watch it : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Depends if you mean a legal or a moral right.I think I have a legal right to download copyrighted material in my country.Just can't watch it :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921157</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29932583</id>
	<title>Re: R.I.P. Media Industry...</title>
	<author>MacWiz</author>
	<datestamp>1256931360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Voting? You mean like a "free" election?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Voting ?
You mean like a " free " election ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Voting?
You mean like a "free" election?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921089</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29926371</id>
	<title>Re:Oh no!</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1256928600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I disagree.</p><p>I openly admit to using drugs.</p><p>I haven't pirated anything in years.</p><p>Of course, thats because I grew up and realize that it really is in my best interest to buy software and other content that I find valuable.  Someone has to support those who put effort into making it.  I also support the ones making my drugs.</p><p>Your comparison is flawed on many many levels.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I disagree.I openly admit to using drugs.I have n't pirated anything in years.Of course , thats because I grew up and realize that it really is in my best interest to buy software and other content that I find valuable .
Someone has to support those who put effort into making it .
I also support the ones making my drugs.Your comparison is flawed on many many levels .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I disagree.I openly admit to using drugs.I haven't pirated anything in years.Of course, thats because I grew up and realize that it really is in my best interest to buy software and other content that I find valuable.
Someone has to support those who put effort into making it.
I also support the ones making my drugs.Your comparison is flawed on many many levels.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921277</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29927599</id>
	<title>Re:The Next Big Tracker</title>
	<author>skeeto</author>
	<datestamp>1256934000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I bet there are already trackers within Tor. BitTorrent trackers are really just web servers and Tor hidden web servers are already well established. The hard part is just getting the client to use the Tor proxy and resolve the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.onion properly. But we have something even better already: distributed trackers based on a global distributed hash table.</p><p>The bottleneck on BitTorrent right now is in distributing and indexing<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.torrent files. Trackers are well taken care of.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I bet there are already trackers within Tor .
BitTorrent trackers are really just web servers and Tor hidden web servers are already well established .
The hard part is just getting the client to use the Tor proxy and resolve the .onion properly .
But we have something even better already : distributed trackers based on a global distributed hash table.The bottleneck on BitTorrent right now is in distributing and indexing .torrent files .
Trackers are well taken care of .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I bet there are already trackers within Tor.
BitTorrent trackers are really just web servers and Tor hidden web servers are already well established.
The hard part is just getting the client to use the Tor proxy and resolve the .onion properly.
But we have something even better already: distributed trackers based on a global distributed hash table.The bottleneck on BitTorrent right now is in distributing and indexing .torrent files.
Trackers are well taken care of.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921053</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29922399</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>Threni</author>
	<datestamp>1256909100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So you need to work out what the site was `created for`.  Is it enough to say it was created for legal stuff?  Does the first n\% of torrents have to be legal?  What's the definition?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So you need to work out what the site was ` created for ` .
Is it enough to say it was created for legal stuff ?
Does the first n \ % of torrents have to be legal ?
What 's the definition ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So you need to work out what the site was `created for`.
Is it enough to say it was created for legal stuff?
Does the first n\% of torrents have to be legal?
What's the definition?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921971</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29925699</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256925300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Also, why is this under "Your Rights Online?" Nobody has a right to illegally download copyrighted materials.</p></div></blockquote><p>That is actually false in most jurisdictions.  For example, in the US Federal law it is absolutely LEGAL to DOWNLOAD any thing.  The laws prohibits DISTRIBUTION of copyrighted material not acquisition.</p><p>You are fine when you are downloading the file, you are (possibly) breaking the law when you are uploading the file to someone else.</p><p>Again that is in the jurisdiction of the US Federal system.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Also , why is this under " Your Rights Online ?
" Nobody has a right to illegally download copyrighted materials.That is actually false in most jurisdictions .
For example , in the US Federal law it is absolutely LEGAL to DOWNLOAD any thing .
The laws prohibits DISTRIBUTION of copyrighted material not acquisition.You are fine when you are downloading the file , you are ( possibly ) breaking the law when you are uploading the file to someone else.Again that is in the jurisdiction of the US Federal system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also, why is this under "Your Rights Online?
" Nobody has a right to illegally download copyrighted materials.That is actually false in most jurisdictions.
For example, in the US Federal law it is absolutely LEGAL to DOWNLOAD any thing.
The laws prohibits DISTRIBUTION of copyrighted material not acquisition.You are fine when you are downloading the file, you are (possibly) breaking the law when you are uploading the file to someone else.Again that is in the jurisdiction of the US Federal system.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921249</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29926277</id>
	<title>Biggest source of illegal downloads</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256928240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The site that hosts the largest array of links to illegal downloads is Google.   So why do they get away with it and TPB does not?</p><p>Simple.</p><p>Google are not morons enough to name themselves something like the PIRATE bay.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The site that hosts the largest array of links to illegal downloads is Google .
So why do they get away with it and TPB does not ? Simple.Google are not morons enough to name themselves something like the PIRATE bay .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The site that hosts the largest array of links to illegal downloads is Google.
So why do they get away with it and TPB does not?Simple.Google are not morons enough to name themselves something like the PIRATE bay.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921503</id>
	<title>how can they order it closed?</title>
	<author>polle404</author>
	<datestamp>1256895000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How can they order it closed?</p><p>i thought it was a matter of public record that TPB was owned by a company in the Antilles?<br>and that this company has unknown owners? (most likely the 4 swedes, but they'd still have to prove it first?)</p><p>How can a Swedish court order a private person to close a foreign companys property, that's not hosted in Sweden?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How can they order it closed ? i thought it was a matter of public record that TPB was owned by a company in the Antilles ? and that this company has unknown owners ?
( most likely the 4 swedes , but they 'd still have to prove it first ?
) How can a Swedish court order a private person to close a foreign companys property , that 's not hosted in Sweden ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How can they order it closed?i thought it was a matter of public record that TPB was owned by a company in the Antilles?and that this company has unknown owners?
(most likely the 4 swedes, but they'd still have to prove it first?
)How can a Swedish court order a private person to close a foreign companys property, that's not hosted in Sweden?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29922233</id>
	<title>Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256906880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I have never seen anything legal on TPB, I'm sure its there somewhere, but its not something I've noticed. I've certainly never used it for anything legal.</p></div><p>So, because all you ever looked for was illegal, you presume that's all there is?<br>Was it really so hard to type linux into that search box and notice that there were 1000+ hits?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have never seen anything legal on TPB , I 'm sure its there somewhere , but its not something I 've noticed .
I 've certainly never used it for anything legal.So , because all you ever looked for was illegal , you presume that 's all there is ? Was it really so hard to type linux into that search box and notice that there were 1000 + hits ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have never seen anything legal on TPB, I'm sure its there somewhere, but its not something I've noticed.
I've certainly never used it for anything legal.So, because all you ever looked for was illegal, you presume that's all there is?Was it really so hard to type linux into that search box and notice that there were 1000+ hits?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921421</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29925667</id>
	<title>Re:Let's stop pussyfooting aroung and call it what</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1256925120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Torrenting and downloading is by and large an expression of civil disobedience in reaction to the complete lockdown the entertainment mafia has on the industry.</p></div><p>Civil disobedience as an act of protest does not involve trying to dodge the punishment prescribed by the legal system - indeed, the very point of it is largely to suffer from the laws you deem unjust while attracting public attention, so that your suffering gathers sympathy for your cause.</p><p>Downloading a bunch of files from TPB isn't civil disobedience in that sense unless you're willing to go to trial, and <em>not</em> argue on that trial that you didn't do it, but only that the law as it stands is wrong.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Torrenting and downloading is by and large an expression of civil disobedience in reaction to the complete lockdown the entertainment mafia has on the industry.Civil disobedience as an act of protest does not involve trying to dodge the punishment prescribed by the legal system - indeed , the very point of it is largely to suffer from the laws you deem unjust while attracting public attention , so that your suffering gathers sympathy for your cause.Downloading a bunch of files from TPB is n't civil disobedience in that sense unless you 're willing to go to trial , and not argue on that trial that you did n't do it , but only that the law as it stands is wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Torrenting and downloading is by and large an expression of civil disobedience in reaction to the complete lockdown the entertainment mafia has on the industry.Civil disobedience as an act of protest does not involve trying to dodge the punishment prescribed by the legal system - indeed, the very point of it is largely to suffer from the laws you deem unjust while attracting public attention, so that your suffering gathers sympathy for your cause.Downloading a bunch of files from TPB isn't civil disobedience in that sense unless you're willing to go to trial, and not argue on that trial that you didn't do it, but only that the law as it stands is wrong.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29922395</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29922593</id>
	<title>What?</title>
	<author>hesaigo999ca</author>
	<datestamp>1256910960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Under who's law, if their servers and business is in India, then the Swedes have no rights to force them to, especially, if TPB have been moving their servers, non stop...who's to say which country it's in now...<br>I really hate the government trying to make an example out of the guys that are not responsible at all for something so big,<br>yet the government really does not realize they should shut down the internet in order to stop piracy!!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Under who 's law , if their servers and business is in India , then the Swedes have no rights to force them to , especially , if TPB have been moving their servers , non stop...who 's to say which country it 's in now...I really hate the government trying to make an example out of the guys that are not responsible at all for something so big,yet the government really does not realize they should shut down the internet in order to stop piracy ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Under who's law, if their servers and business is in India, then the Swedes have no rights to force them to, especially, if TPB have been moving their servers, non stop...who's to say which country it's in now...I really hate the government trying to make an example out of the guys that are not responsible at all for something so big,yet the government really does not realize they should shut down the internet in order to stop piracy!!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921045</id>
	<title>Crimes against</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256844480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In April, Fredrik Neij , Gottfrid Svartholm Warg , Peter Sunde and Carl Lundstr&#246;m were found guilty of being accessories to crimes against copyright law</p></div><p>Poor copyright law, he didn't get out of the hospital for 2 weeks. I don't think he'll ever be the same.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In April , Fredrik Neij , Gottfrid Svartholm Warg , Peter Sunde and Carl Lundstr   m were found guilty of being accessories to crimes against copyright lawPoor copyright law , he did n't get out of the hospital for 2 weeks .
I do n't think he 'll ever be the same .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In April, Fredrik Neij , Gottfrid Svartholm Warg , Peter Sunde and Carl Lundström were found guilty of being accessories to crimes against copyright lawPoor copyright law, he didn't get out of the hospital for 2 weeks.
I don't think he'll ever be the same.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921589</id>
	<title>Re:silly companies</title>
	<author>pandrijeczko</author>
	<datestamp>1256896380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Metallica make music? When did that start then?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Metallica make music ?
When did that start then ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Metallica make music?
When did that start then?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921457</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29923165</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>mariushm</author>
	<datestamp>1256914620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Would it have made a difference if it was called "The Legal Bay" ?</p><p>The Pirate Bay was not created specifically for works to be shared without permission from the authors, it was created for people to share their creations.</p><p>It just so happens that some people share music videos or music tracks honestly believing it's nothing wrong with that, thinking they promote the bands this way. Other people buy something legally and believe they're allowed to share it with some people, just as they would physically borrow it to other friends (a book for example) - they really see nothing wrong with that. Other people are just jerks and upload illegal files knowing well what they do.</p><p>The problem is that the Internet is INTERNATIONAL, and copyright laws are NOT international. There will always people in some countries where there are absolutely no laws or very lax laws about copyright infringement, people that are not educated or simply don't understand what all this copyright talk is about and will upload torrents with illegal content.</p><p>This happens with any site, including Youtube for example - no matter how many warnings you see before you get the chance to upload something, you'll easily find clips on Youtube with copyrighted audio tracks in them because in some countries there simply isn't even the notion of copyright infringement.</p><p>Youtube is even a worse offender than The Pirate Bay because it also stores the content with copyrighted audio on their server so they can do checks on the file any time they like and they can hire people to manually view and listed to each track - The Pirate Bay can't, they only store a torrent file holding just some file names and some file sizes and they'd have to download each torrent to view the contents which would be almost impossible.</p><p>But Youtube gets off easy because they implement the faulty audio identification scheme where publishers send Youtube signatures for audio files and Youtube removes audio from videos when an audio signature is found - but this has problems as this article says:</p><p><a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20091028/0306106704.shtml" title="techdirt.com">http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20091028/0306106704.shtml</a> [techdirt.com]</p><p>A publisher simply decided it owns copyright for a public domain audio track so they sent the signature to Youtube. Result: account disabled.<br>Person decides to post a clip with public domain video recording from NASA. Associated Press gets permission from NASA to post the clip on their site, then claims the videos on Youtube infringe their copyright. Result: account disabled</p><p>The lawsuit the article is about is stupid. A court in Sweden says because they couldn't find out who is behind Reservela, the company owning "The Pirate Bay", they just assume those two people are still the owners and decide those two people are no longer allowed to work on it even though The Pirate Bay is no longer physically located in Sweden, the two people are no longer the owners and they're not even living in Sweden anymore.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Would it have made a difference if it was called " The Legal Bay " ? The Pirate Bay was not created specifically for works to be shared without permission from the authors , it was created for people to share their creations.It just so happens that some people share music videos or music tracks honestly believing it 's nothing wrong with that , thinking they promote the bands this way .
Other people buy something legally and believe they 're allowed to share it with some people , just as they would physically borrow it to other friends ( a book for example ) - they really see nothing wrong with that .
Other people are just jerks and upload illegal files knowing well what they do.The problem is that the Internet is INTERNATIONAL , and copyright laws are NOT international .
There will always people in some countries where there are absolutely no laws or very lax laws about copyright infringement , people that are not educated or simply do n't understand what all this copyright talk is about and will upload torrents with illegal content.This happens with any site , including Youtube for example - no matter how many warnings you see before you get the chance to upload something , you 'll easily find clips on Youtube with copyrighted audio tracks in them because in some countries there simply is n't even the notion of copyright infringement.Youtube is even a worse offender than The Pirate Bay because it also stores the content with copyrighted audio on their server so they can do checks on the file any time they like and they can hire people to manually view and listed to each track - The Pirate Bay ca n't , they only store a torrent file holding just some file names and some file sizes and they 'd have to download each torrent to view the contents which would be almost impossible.But Youtube gets off easy because they implement the faulty audio identification scheme where publishers send Youtube signatures for audio files and Youtube removes audio from videos when an audio signature is found - but this has problems as this article says : http : //www.techdirt.com/articles/20091028/0306106704.shtml [ techdirt.com ] A publisher simply decided it owns copyright for a public domain audio track so they sent the signature to Youtube .
Result : account disabled.Person decides to post a clip with public domain video recording from NASA .
Associated Press gets permission from NASA to post the clip on their site , then claims the videos on Youtube infringe their copyright .
Result : account disabledThe lawsuit the article is about is stupid .
A court in Sweden says because they could n't find out who is behind Reservela , the company owning " The Pirate Bay " , they just assume those two people are still the owners and decide those two people are no longer allowed to work on it even though The Pirate Bay is no longer physically located in Sweden , the two people are no longer the owners and they 're not even living in Sweden anymore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Would it have made a difference if it was called "The Legal Bay" ?The Pirate Bay was not created specifically for works to be shared without permission from the authors, it was created for people to share their creations.It just so happens that some people share music videos or music tracks honestly believing it's nothing wrong with that, thinking they promote the bands this way.
Other people buy something legally and believe they're allowed to share it with some people, just as they would physically borrow it to other friends (a book for example) - they really see nothing wrong with that.
Other people are just jerks and upload illegal files knowing well what they do.The problem is that the Internet is INTERNATIONAL, and copyright laws are NOT international.
There will always people in some countries where there are absolutely no laws or very lax laws about copyright infringement, people that are not educated or simply don't understand what all this copyright talk is about and will upload torrents with illegal content.This happens with any site, including Youtube for example - no matter how many warnings you see before you get the chance to upload something, you'll easily find clips on Youtube with copyrighted audio tracks in them because in some countries there simply isn't even the notion of copyright infringement.Youtube is even a worse offender than The Pirate Bay because it also stores the content with copyrighted audio on their server so they can do checks on the file any time they like and they can hire people to manually view and listed to each track - The Pirate Bay can't, they only store a torrent file holding just some file names and some file sizes and they'd have to download each torrent to view the contents which would be almost impossible.But Youtube gets off easy because they implement the faulty audio identification scheme where publishers send Youtube signatures for audio files and Youtube removes audio from videos when an audio signature is found - but this has problems as this article says:http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20091028/0306106704.shtml [techdirt.com]A publisher simply decided it owns copyright for a public domain audio track so they sent the signature to Youtube.
Result: account disabled.Person decides to post a clip with public domain video recording from NASA.
Associated Press gets permission from NASA to post the clip on their site, then claims the videos on Youtube infringe their copyright.
Result: account disabledThe lawsuit the article is about is stupid.
A court in Sweden says because they couldn't find out who is behind Reservela, the company owning "The Pirate Bay", they just assume those two people are still the owners and decide those two people are no longer allowed to work on it even though The Pirate Bay is no longer physically located in Sweden, the two people are no longer the owners and they're not even living in Sweden anymore.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921971</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29924463</id>
	<title>Re:Oh no!</title>
	<author>Ash-Fox</author>
	<datestamp>1256920380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>And we don't even have an alternate tracker that tracks every TPB torrent! If only someone had made OpenBitTorrent.com in time!</p></div></blockquote><p>From their website:</p><blockquote><div><p>Usage limitations</p><p>We kindly ask you not to use OBT for torrents containing unauthorized copyrighted files (movies, music, games and so on).</p><p>If you want to add OBT to a massive amount of torrents, you must ask us first.</p><p>Don't add OBT as the default tracker when torrents are uploaded on your site without our written consent.</p></div></blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And we do n't even have an alternate tracker that tracks every TPB torrent !
If only someone had made OpenBitTorrent.com in time ! From their website : Usage limitationsWe kindly ask you not to use OBT for torrents containing unauthorized copyrighted files ( movies , music , games and so on ) .If you want to add OBT to a massive amount of torrents , you must ask us first.Do n't add OBT as the default tracker when torrents are uploaded on your site without our written consent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And we don't even have an alternate tracker that tracks every TPB torrent!
If only someone had made OpenBitTorrent.com in time!From their website:Usage limitationsWe kindly ask you not to use OBT for torrents containing unauthorized copyrighted files (movies, music, games and so on).If you want to add OBT to a massive amount of torrents, you must ask us first.Don't add OBT as the default tracker when torrents are uploaded on your site without our written consent.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921001</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29933845</id>
	<title>Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law</title>
	<author>forebees</author>
	<datestamp>1256998080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wish people would pick something other than murder to compare file sharing with.

It's NOT murder and the analogy fails badly because of it. Nor is it like illicit drug use, child pornography or any other serious crime (which drug use and trafficking isn't - they're just offences against some people's morals).

Try an analogy like shop lifting or littering. Then see whether the argument makes sense.

The evidence that this activity remove money from the pockets of the companies involved is far from clear. The fact that a great many people engage in the activity should indicate that a great many people believe it's not as bad as murder, kiddie porn trafficking or any other such activity.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wish people would pick something other than murder to compare file sharing with .
It 's NOT murder and the analogy fails badly because of it .
Nor is it like illicit drug use , child pornography or any other serious crime ( which drug use and trafficking is n't - they 're just offences against some people 's morals ) .
Try an analogy like shop lifting or littering .
Then see whether the argument makes sense .
The evidence that this activity remove money from the pockets of the companies involved is far from clear .
The fact that a great many people engage in the activity should indicate that a great many people believe it 's not as bad as murder , kiddie porn trafficking or any other such activity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wish people would pick something other than murder to compare file sharing with.
It's NOT murder and the analogy fails badly because of it.
Nor is it like illicit drug use, child pornography or any other serious crime (which drug use and trafficking isn't - they're just offences against some people's morals).
Try an analogy like shop lifting or littering.
Then see whether the argument makes sense.
The evidence that this activity remove money from the pockets of the companies involved is far from clear.
The fact that a great many people engage in the activity should indicate that a great many people believe it's not as bad as murder, kiddie porn trafficking or any other such activity.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921421</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29922117</id>
	<title>Relocate to a truly independent country!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256905380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A country (or union of weak bitches, I mean countries) that does not lick American assholes clean and bend over to spread their cheeks for the corporations that truly run the American Empire.</p><p>Cuba<br>Venezuela<br>North Korea<br>etc etc</p><p>Run the servers from those locations while continuing to tell the American Empire to kiss your true freedom loving ass and to go fuck themselves with their worshiped near worthless dollar. Problem solved and game/set/match. TPB is shutdown within the EU-AmericanAssKissing boundaries and TPB lives on untouchable. Fucktard worthless lawyers, hopefully someday soon you will all just be put to the People's guillotine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A country ( or union of weak bitches , I mean countries ) that does not lick American assholes clean and bend over to spread their cheeks for the corporations that truly run the American Empire.CubaVenezuelaNorth Koreaetc etcRun the servers from those locations while continuing to tell the American Empire to kiss your true freedom loving ass and to go fuck themselves with their worshiped near worthless dollar .
Problem solved and game/set/match .
TPB is shutdown within the EU-AmericanAssKissing boundaries and TPB lives on untouchable .
Fucktard worthless lawyers , hopefully someday soon you will all just be put to the People 's guillotine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A country (or union of weak bitches, I mean countries) that does not lick American assholes clean and bend over to spread their cheeks for the corporations that truly run the American Empire.CubaVenezuelaNorth Koreaetc etcRun the servers from those locations while continuing to tell the American Empire to kiss your true freedom loving ass and to go fuck themselves with their worshiped near worthless dollar.
Problem solved and game/set/match.
TPB is shutdown within the EU-AmericanAssKissing boundaries and TPB lives on untouchable.
Fucktard worthless lawyers, hopefully someday soon you will all just be put to the People's guillotine.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29923057</id>
	<title>Your rights</title>
	<author>MrKaos</author>
	<datestamp>1256914080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You have the right to remain a slave. Anything you do to not be a slave can and will be used to enslave you. You have the right to have your freedom incrementally taken from you. If you cannot afford freedom, no-one is going to give it to you. Do you understand we are right?</htmltext>
<tokenext>You have the right to remain a slave .
Anything you do to not be a slave can and will be used to enslave you .
You have the right to have your freedom incrementally taken from you .
If you can not afford freedom , no-one is going to give it to you .
Do you understand we are right ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You have the right to remain a slave.
Anything you do to not be a slave can and will be used to enslave you.
You have the right to have your freedom incrementally taken from you.
If you cannot afford freedom, no-one is going to give it to you.
Do you understand we are right?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921069</id>
	<title>Last time I checked...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256844720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>TPB guys moved the site and themselves to the Netherlands. Unless it is some EU mandate that people sued in one country are sued in all of them, I don't see how this court has any jurisdiction over any of what they are ruling on.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>TPB guys moved the site and themselves to the Netherlands .
Unless it is some EU mandate that people sued in one country are sued in all of them , I do n't see how this court has any jurisdiction over any of what they are ruling on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>TPB guys moved the site and themselves to the Netherlands.
Unless it is some EU mandate that people sued in one country are sued in all of them, I don't see how this court has any jurisdiction over any of what they are ruling on.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921457</id>
	<title>Re:silly companies</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256894580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Learned what from napster?  I haven't used another P2P client since it went away.  All the replacements are asstastic and are nothing compared to what napster was in its day.  They most certainly one that particular battle on the large scale.  Taking napster down splintered the system enough that it became FAR FAR less useful.</p><p>You will never stop it, and thats not something they are even trying to do, its too expensive.  They can, however, stop the majority of it by making it too much of a pain to justify the effort and providing alternatives that are usable/cheap enough to make it not worth pirating.</p><p>I had a rather large collection of music in that time period, my roommate had a massive collection, filled a $100k Sun fibre channel array with mp3s, well over a hundred gigs, in the late 90s.  The array failed to boot one day, and was moved to a new site eventually, I have no idea what happened to those songs.  I do know that since then, with the advent of iTunes and dollar songs, that now I just buy music.  Back then my time was worth less than the cost of buying a CD for one song.  Now, my time is worth far more than the cost of buying the song.  I don't pirate anything anymore.</p><p>Well, I did make one exception.   The day Metallica got all uppity about mp3's and iTunes, I proceeded directly to TPB and downloaded all of their music.  I have since learned the error of my ways, I no longer pirate Metallica music either.  Now its simply banned from my home.  They can kiss my rosey red ass, fucking sell outs<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Learned what from napster ?
I have n't used another P2P client since it went away .
All the replacements are asstastic and are nothing compared to what napster was in its day .
They most certainly one that particular battle on the large scale .
Taking napster down splintered the system enough that it became FAR FAR less useful.You will never stop it , and thats not something they are even trying to do , its too expensive .
They can , however , stop the majority of it by making it too much of a pain to justify the effort and providing alternatives that are usable/cheap enough to make it not worth pirating.I had a rather large collection of music in that time period , my roommate had a massive collection , filled a $ 100k Sun fibre channel array with mp3s , well over a hundred gigs , in the late 90s .
The array failed to boot one day , and was moved to a new site eventually , I have no idea what happened to those songs .
I do know that since then , with the advent of iTunes and dollar songs , that now I just buy music .
Back then my time was worth less than the cost of buying a CD for one song .
Now , my time is worth far more than the cost of buying the song .
I do n't pirate anything anymore.Well , I did make one exception .
The day Metallica got all uppity about mp3 's and iTunes , I proceeded directly to TPB and downloaded all of their music .
I have since learned the error of my ways , I no longer pirate Metallica music either .
Now its simply banned from my home .
They can kiss my rosey red ass , fucking sell outs : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Learned what from napster?
I haven't used another P2P client since it went away.
All the replacements are asstastic and are nothing compared to what napster was in its day.
They most certainly one that particular battle on the large scale.
Taking napster down splintered the system enough that it became FAR FAR less useful.You will never stop it, and thats not something they are even trying to do, its too expensive.
They can, however, stop the majority of it by making it too much of a pain to justify the effort and providing alternatives that are usable/cheap enough to make it not worth pirating.I had a rather large collection of music in that time period, my roommate had a massive collection, filled a $100k Sun fibre channel array with mp3s, well over a hundred gigs, in the late 90s.
The array failed to boot one day, and was moved to a new site eventually, I have no idea what happened to those songs.
I do know that since then, with the advent of iTunes and dollar songs, that now I just buy music.
Back then my time was worth less than the cost of buying a CD for one song.
Now, my time is worth far more than the cost of buying the song.
I don't pirate anything anymore.Well, I did make one exception.
The day Metallica got all uppity about mp3's and iTunes, I proceeded directly to TPB and downloaded all of their music.
I have since learned the error of my ways, I no longer pirate Metallica music either.
Now its simply banned from my home.
They can kiss my rosey red ass, fucking sell outs :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921275</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29926677</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>jones\_supa</author>
	<datestamp>1256929800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>No, but we certainly have the right to download torrents, which are legal in themselves! They aren't copyrighted material; they are pointers to copyrighted material!</p></div></blockquote><p>I see it so that the torrent is essentially a virtualization of the copyrighted material and hence the same thing.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>No , but we certainly have the right to download torrents , which are legal in themselves !
They are n't copyrighted material ; they are pointers to copyrighted material ! I see it so that the torrent is essentially a virtualization of the copyrighted material and hence the same thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, but we certainly have the right to download torrents, which are legal in themselves!
They aren't copyrighted material; they are pointers to copyrighted material!I see it so that the torrent is essentially a virtualization of the copyrighted material and hence the same thing.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921237</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29923033</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>kimvette</author>
	<datestamp>1256913900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As one who use Napster in its heyday to download random stuff en masse (for example, I'd search for the letter A, download everything it found, etc) and then go through it and listen to a portion of each track, delete what I didn't like and move what I did into a "to buy" folder, then I went and bought CDs of what I wanted to keep. In the year or so I used Napster, I bought far more CDs than I did in the entire 13 years I owned CD players prior to then.</p><p>When the labels started suing their customer base, I quit using Napster, so they're happy. I also quit listening to pop radio and quit buying CDs for the most part. Since then, I've bought fewer than 10 CDs.</p><p>The labels lose. I still avoid pop radio. Oh, I've bought a track here and there through my iPhone but no substantial amounts.</p><p>I HAVE used thepiratebay for timeshifting purposes, for example, if I missed an Arrested Development episode (before it was cancelled, obviously) or any other show I watch, I'd grab it off The Pirate Bay. I'd watch it and delete it (for the record, I often do buy the shows on TV). I've also downloaded a few movies I wasn't sure I'd like, such as THX1138. I watched bits and pieces and bought the ones I liked. Why? I like having tangible product. I like the lack of DRM restrictions blocking my right of first sale to transfer ownership should I not want the movie or music any more. I also like the higher quality of the DVD or CD vs. h.264|xvid and MP3 rips</p><p>As long as the labels try to extinguish new technologies and screw the artist and customer alike, I'm simply not interested in what they have to offer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As one who use Napster in its heyday to download random stuff en masse ( for example , I 'd search for the letter A , download everything it found , etc ) and then go through it and listen to a portion of each track , delete what I did n't like and move what I did into a " to buy " folder , then I went and bought CDs of what I wanted to keep .
In the year or so I used Napster , I bought far more CDs than I did in the entire 13 years I owned CD players prior to then.When the labels started suing their customer base , I quit using Napster , so they 're happy .
I also quit listening to pop radio and quit buying CDs for the most part .
Since then , I 've bought fewer than 10 CDs.The labels lose .
I still avoid pop radio .
Oh , I 've bought a track here and there through my iPhone but no substantial amounts.I HAVE used thepiratebay for timeshifting purposes , for example , if I missed an Arrested Development episode ( before it was cancelled , obviously ) or any other show I watch , I 'd grab it off The Pirate Bay .
I 'd watch it and delete it ( for the record , I often do buy the shows on TV ) .
I 've also downloaded a few movies I was n't sure I 'd like , such as THX1138 .
I watched bits and pieces and bought the ones I liked .
Why ? I like having tangible product .
I like the lack of DRM restrictions blocking my right of first sale to transfer ownership should I not want the movie or music any more .
I also like the higher quality of the DVD or CD vs. h.264 | xvid and MP3 ripsAs long as the labels try to extinguish new technologies and screw the artist and customer alike , I 'm simply not interested in what they have to offer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As one who use Napster in its heyday to download random stuff en masse (for example, I'd search for the letter A, download everything it found, etc) and then go through it and listen to a portion of each track, delete what I didn't like and move what I did into a "to buy" folder, then I went and bought CDs of what I wanted to keep.
In the year or so I used Napster, I bought far more CDs than I did in the entire 13 years I owned CD players prior to then.When the labels started suing their customer base, I quit using Napster, so they're happy.
I also quit listening to pop radio and quit buying CDs for the most part.
Since then, I've bought fewer than 10 CDs.The labels lose.
I still avoid pop radio.
Oh, I've bought a track here and there through my iPhone but no substantial amounts.I HAVE used thepiratebay for timeshifting purposes, for example, if I missed an Arrested Development episode (before it was cancelled, obviously) or any other show I watch, I'd grab it off The Pirate Bay.
I'd watch it and delete it (for the record, I often do buy the shows on TV).
I've also downloaded a few movies I wasn't sure I'd like, such as THX1138.
I watched bits and pieces and bought the ones I liked.
Why? I like having tangible product.
I like the lack of DRM restrictions blocking my right of first sale to transfer ownership should I not want the movie or music any more.
I also like the higher quality of the DVD or CD vs. h.264|xvid and MP3 ripsAs long as the labels try to extinguish new technologies and screw the artist and customer alike, I'm simply not interested in what they have to offer.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921317</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921053</id>
	<title>The Next Big Tracker</title>
	<author>QuoteMstr</author>
	<datestamp>1256844540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Next Big Tracker: a Tor hidden service? Yes, peer-to-peer over Tor is bad manners. If you're just talking about the tracker, the bandwidth requirements are reasonable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Next Big Tracker : a Tor hidden service ?
Yes , peer-to-peer over Tor is bad manners .
If you 're just talking about the tracker , the bandwidth requirements are reasonable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Next Big Tracker: a Tor hidden service?
Yes, peer-to-peer over Tor is bad manners.
If you're just talking about the tracker, the bandwidth requirements are reasonable.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29929287</id>
	<title>Re:A mind is a terrible thing to waste.</title>
	<author>mpfife</author>
	<datestamp>1256899620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Amen to this. <p>

Remember, the 'jury of your peers' will be the same people who have every appliance in their house blinking 12:00 and weren't able to get out of jury duty.  The LAWYERS will be telling them what criteria they're supposed to be convicting you on.</p><p>

Best advice I ever heard from a lawyer was this:</p><p>
Remember, they'll storm your place on probable cause.  They'll take your PC and all your electronic gizmos and ANYTHING that might look like evidence (CD collection, phone bills, etc), they'll break things (inadvertently or not) and generally trash your place collecting evidence.  They'll handcuff you in front of all your neighbors and throw you in the back of a car - then make a general spectacle over the entire day in front of your house.  You'll get to go downtown, be handcuffed, finger-printed, photo taken (which is now and forever public record) and generally humiliated and treated like a common crook.  you'll be thrown into a jail cel with common crooks, drug addicts, tweakers and other fun folks to 'sleep' with.  After a few days or even weeks of that, you'll (hopefully) get a chance to put your house or car up for your bail.  Meanwhile you'll have to explain to your boss why you're not coming into to work for a few days/weeks.  If he doesn't fire you right then and there, you'll be using up all your vacation time for that year - and all your good graces with all your coworkers too.  Then, you'll spend every waking hour working, or preparing for the case with your lawyer - whom you'll be paying thousands of dollars over the next few days/weeks to get ready for the case.  Oh, and remember all your computer stuff got confiscated - so good luck surfing the web for help or writing up those docs for your lawyer.</p><p>

I don't care how 'right' you think you are.  What's the 'cost' of putting yourself through all that - and then 90\% likely not even getting to prove your point anyway since no good lawyer in his right mind would put you on the stand as a 'copyright expert'.</p><p>

This, ladies and gentlemen, is the difference between being right on slashdot - and being right in the real world.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Amen to this .
Remember , the 'jury of your peers ' will be the same people who have every appliance in their house blinking 12 : 00 and were n't able to get out of jury duty .
The LAWYERS will be telling them what criteria they 're supposed to be convicting you on .
Best advice I ever heard from a lawyer was this : Remember , they 'll storm your place on probable cause .
They 'll take your PC and all your electronic gizmos and ANYTHING that might look like evidence ( CD collection , phone bills , etc ) , they 'll break things ( inadvertently or not ) and generally trash your place collecting evidence .
They 'll handcuff you in front of all your neighbors and throw you in the back of a car - then make a general spectacle over the entire day in front of your house .
You 'll get to go downtown , be handcuffed , finger-printed , photo taken ( which is now and forever public record ) and generally humiliated and treated like a common crook .
you 'll be thrown into a jail cel with common crooks , drug addicts , tweakers and other fun folks to 'sleep ' with .
After a few days or even weeks of that , you 'll ( hopefully ) get a chance to put your house or car up for your bail .
Meanwhile you 'll have to explain to your boss why you 're not coming into to work for a few days/weeks .
If he does n't fire you right then and there , you 'll be using up all your vacation time for that year - and all your good graces with all your coworkers too .
Then , you 'll spend every waking hour working , or preparing for the case with your lawyer - whom you 'll be paying thousands of dollars over the next few days/weeks to get ready for the case .
Oh , and remember all your computer stuff got confiscated - so good luck surfing the web for help or writing up those docs for your lawyer .
I do n't care how 'right ' you think you are .
What 's the 'cost ' of putting yourself through all that - and then 90 \ % likely not even getting to prove your point anyway since no good lawyer in his right mind would put you on the stand as a 'copyright expert' .
This , ladies and gentlemen , is the difference between being right on slashdot - and being right in the real world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Amen to this.
Remember, the 'jury of your peers' will be the same people who have every appliance in their house blinking 12:00 and weren't able to get out of jury duty.
The LAWYERS will be telling them what criteria they're supposed to be convicting you on.
Best advice I ever heard from a lawyer was this:
Remember, they'll storm your place on probable cause.
They'll take your PC and all your electronic gizmos and ANYTHING that might look like evidence (CD collection, phone bills, etc), they'll break things (inadvertently or not) and generally trash your place collecting evidence.
They'll handcuff you in front of all your neighbors and throw you in the back of a car - then make a general spectacle over the entire day in front of your house.
You'll get to go downtown, be handcuffed, finger-printed, photo taken (which is now and forever public record) and generally humiliated and treated like a common crook.
you'll be thrown into a jail cel with common crooks, drug addicts, tweakers and other fun folks to 'sleep' with.
After a few days or even weeks of that, you'll (hopefully) get a chance to put your house or car up for your bail.
Meanwhile you'll have to explain to your boss why you're not coming into to work for a few days/weeks.
If he doesn't fire you right then and there, you'll be using up all your vacation time for that year - and all your good graces with all your coworkers too.
Then, you'll spend every waking hour working, or preparing for the case with your lawyer - whom you'll be paying thousands of dollars over the next few days/weeks to get ready for the case.
Oh, and remember all your computer stuff got confiscated - so good luck surfing the web for help or writing up those docs for your lawyer.
I don't care how 'right' you think you are.
What's the 'cost' of putting yourself through all that - and then 90\% likely not even getting to prove your point anyway since no good lawyer in his right mind would put you on the stand as a 'copyright expert'.
This, ladies and gentlemen, is the difference between being right on slashdot - and being right in the real world.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921905</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921539</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>Exception Duck</author>
	<datestamp>1256895540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hid.im is a new web-based service that allows users to hide<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.torrent files inside PNG images. This means that users can easily upload hidden torrent files to their favorite image hosting service and forums, or use it as an avatar on social networking sites without being censored.</p><p><a href="http://torrentfreak.com/hidim-converts-torrents-into-png-images-090714/" title="torrentfreak.com" rel="nofollow">http://torrentfreak.com/hidim-converts-torrents-into-png-images-090714/</a> [torrentfreak.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hid.im is a new web-based service that allows users to hide .torrent files inside PNG images .
This means that users can easily upload hidden torrent files to their favorite image hosting service and forums , or use it as an avatar on social networking sites without being censored.http : //torrentfreak.com/hidim-converts-torrents-into-png-images-090714/ [ torrentfreak.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hid.im is a new web-based service that allows users to hide .torrent files inside PNG images.
This means that users can easily upload hidden torrent files to their favorite image hosting service and forums, or use it as an avatar on social networking sites without being censored.http://torrentfreak.com/hidim-converts-torrents-into-png-images-090714/ [torrentfreak.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921249</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921043</id>
	<title>Oh well</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256844420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>At least they tried.</htmltext>
<tokenext>At least they tried .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At least they tried.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29922999</id>
	<title>Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256913600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Can someone be charged with accessory to murder without proof that a murder took place?</p> </div><p>Not in the US, otherwise I think alot of firearms retailers would be shut down.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Can someone be charged with accessory to murder without proof that a murder took place ?
Not in the US , otherwise I think alot of firearms retailers would be shut down .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can someone be charged with accessory to murder without proof that a murder took place?
Not in the US, otherwise I think alot of firearms retailers would be shut down.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921233</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921237</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256934000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Also, why is this under "Your Rights Online?"  Nobody has a right to illegally download copyrighted materials.</p></div><p>No, but we certainly have the right to download torrents, which are legal in themselves!  They aren't copyrighted material; they are pointers to copyrighted material!</p><p>int x = 7;<br>int *px = &amp;x;</p><p>Remind me: How does (x == px) evaluate?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Also , why is this under " Your Rights Online ?
" Nobody has a right to illegally download copyrighted materials.No , but we certainly have the right to download torrents , which are legal in themselves !
They are n't copyrighted material ; they are pointers to copyrighted material ! int x = 7 ; int * px = &amp;x ; Remind me : How does ( x = = px ) evaluate ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also, why is this under "Your Rights Online?
"  Nobody has a right to illegally download copyrighted materials.No, but we certainly have the right to download torrents, which are legal in themselves!
They aren't copyrighted material; they are pointers to copyrighted material!int x = 7;int *px = &amp;x;Remind me: How does (x == px) evaluate?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921157</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921801</id>
	<title>Re:silly companies</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256900580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Learned what from napster?  I haven't used another P2P client since it went away.  All the replacements are asstastic and are nothing compared to what napster was in its day.</p></div><p>Bullshit.  If you don't want to share music the way you used to, fine... but don't make up some crap like this in the process.  The scene is far bigger and better than the Napster days in every way.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Learned what from napster ?
I have n't used another P2P client since it went away .
All the replacements are asstastic and are nothing compared to what napster was in its day.Bullshit .
If you do n't want to share music the way you used to , fine... but do n't make up some crap like this in the process .
The scene is far bigger and better than the Napster days in every way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Learned what from napster?
I haven't used another P2P client since it went away.
All the replacements are asstastic and are nothing compared to what napster was in its day.Bullshit.
If you don't want to share music the way you used to, fine... but don't make up some crap like this in the process.
The scene is far bigger and better than the Napster days in every way.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921457</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921613</id>
	<title>Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256896800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Lets face reality though, Pirate Bay exists to facilitate copyright infringement....It was created by an anti-copyright organization.</p></div></blockquote><p>
No it wasn't. TPB came before The Pirate Party.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Lets face reality though , Pirate Bay exists to facilitate copyright infringement....It was created by an anti-copyright organization .
No it was n't .
TPB came before The Pirate Party .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lets face reality though, Pirate Bay exists to facilitate copyright infringement....It was created by an anti-copyright organization.
No it wasn't.
TPB came before The Pirate Party.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921421</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921213</id>
	<title>Re:Oh no!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256933700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>That's not the point of enforcing the law. You don't leave thieves, embezzlers or whatever alone because there's a lot more of them out there. You catch the ones you can.</p></div><p>And more specific to these cases, the industry isn't concerned with ending all copyright infringement, they're concerned with it becoming (more) mainstream. Remove some of the major trackers/sources, a few high publicity lawsuit campaigns, and then "why don't you just download it" becomes "why not just buy it".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's not the point of enforcing the law .
You do n't leave thieves , embezzlers or whatever alone because there 's a lot more of them out there .
You catch the ones you can.And more specific to these cases , the industry is n't concerned with ending all copyright infringement , they 're concerned with it becoming ( more ) mainstream .
Remove some of the major trackers/sources , a few high publicity lawsuit campaigns , and then " why do n't you just download it " becomes " why not just buy it " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's not the point of enforcing the law.
You don't leave thieves, embezzlers or whatever alone because there's a lot more of them out there.
You catch the ones you can.And more specific to these cases, the industry isn't concerned with ending all copyright infringement, they're concerned with it becoming (more) mainstream.
Remove some of the major trackers/sources, a few high publicity lawsuit campaigns, and then "why don't you just download it" becomes "why not just buy it".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921099</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29923351</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>Atlantis-Rising</author>
	<datestamp>1256915640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't think it's dishonest to conflate legal rights with ethical and moral rights. In fact, I think ethical and moral rights <em>are</em> legal rights. The two are one and the same. you have no ethical and moral rights that are not codified as legal rights.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think it 's dishonest to conflate legal rights with ethical and moral rights .
In fact , I think ethical and moral rights are legal rights .
The two are one and the same .
you have no ethical and moral rights that are not codified as legal rights .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think it's dishonest to conflate legal rights with ethical and moral rights.
In fact, I think ethical and moral rights are legal rights.
The two are one and the same.
you have no ethical and moral rights that are not codified as legal rights.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921317</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29922447</id>
	<title>Re:R.I.P Media Industry... (2009 to -)</title>
	<author>Animaether</author>
	<datestamp>1256909580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They're not failing due to a 'free' (as in speech-like) internet, but due to the 'free' (as in beer) copying of binary data.</p><p>If you could -copy- medicine so that you have a perfect copy of that medicine, and the person with the original keeps his, you bet that medicine companies would feel the hurt.  See also Brazil's stance of happily ignoring patents and manufacturing medicine locally at a fraction of the cost (no R&amp;D and advertising costs to recuperate goes a long way).</p><p>The same applies to food, clothing, cars, etc.</p><p>The only immediate restriction that would fall unto the above is that these are actual physical goods - and no element has yet been created out of a vacuum by scientists.  Even transforming one element into another (alchemy, but way cooler) takes prohibitive amounts of energy and thus money.  So you need a supply of base elements for the device - a star trek-style replicator if you will - to make the copies with.  That would then be the last great industry.. the collection and distribution of the raw elements.  But given that anybody in that industry can already replicate food, housing materials, etc.  even they needn't necessarily be 'paid' in any way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They 're not failing due to a 'free ' ( as in speech-like ) internet , but due to the 'free ' ( as in beer ) copying of binary data.If you could -copy- medicine so that you have a perfect copy of that medicine , and the person with the original keeps his , you bet that medicine companies would feel the hurt .
See also Brazil 's stance of happily ignoring patents and manufacturing medicine locally at a fraction of the cost ( no R&amp;D and advertising costs to recuperate goes a long way ) .The same applies to food , clothing , cars , etc.The only immediate restriction that would fall unto the above is that these are actual physical goods - and no element has yet been created out of a vacuum by scientists .
Even transforming one element into another ( alchemy , but way cooler ) takes prohibitive amounts of energy and thus money .
So you need a supply of base elements for the device - a star trek-style replicator if you will - to make the copies with .
That would then be the last great industry.. the collection and distribution of the raw elements .
But given that anybody in that industry can already replicate food , housing materials , etc .
even they need n't necessarily be 'paid ' in any way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They're not failing due to a 'free' (as in speech-like) internet, but due to the 'free' (as in beer) copying of binary data.If you could -copy- medicine so that you have a perfect copy of that medicine, and the person with the original keeps his, you bet that medicine companies would feel the hurt.
See also Brazil's stance of happily ignoring patents and manufacturing medicine locally at a fraction of the cost (no R&amp;D and advertising costs to recuperate goes a long way).The same applies to food, clothing, cars, etc.The only immediate restriction that would fall unto the above is that these are actual physical goods - and no element has yet been created out of a vacuum by scientists.
Even transforming one element into another (alchemy, but way cooler) takes prohibitive amounts of energy and thus money.
So you need a supply of base elements for the device - a star trek-style replicator if you will - to make the copies with.
That would then be the last great industry.. the collection and distribution of the raw elements.
But given that anybody in that industry can already replicate food, housing materials, etc.
even they needn't necessarily be 'paid' in any way.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921089</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921249</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>Hojima</author>
	<datestamp>1256934120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Also, why is this under "Your Rights Online?"  Nobody has a right to illegally download copyrighted materials.</p></div><p>Because the rights of illegal downloading is not in question, it's the right to host a site that tracks torrents. You see, as long as there is a site that legitimately hosts non-copyrighted material, there will be people who post torrents that contain other material. To the dismay of the record companies, there will never be an end to piracy, however, these sites should not be one to suffer. While you may compare this to government shutting down legitimate bars that happen to be a gathering place for criminals that sell illegal weapons, there is a difference. Imagine that these bars were magical, so that even a tiny bar would only have to have its name whispered to have vendors teleport their wares through that bar. Some are even in a magical untouchable plane (this would be similar to sites hosted out of jurisdiction). Going after the largest bar because it's very well known and mostly criminals use it wouldn't make much sense. All the criminals would go elsewhere and you'd have the same damn problem, until the evil warlocks responsible monopolize magic bars.<br>Then we would have to wait for a hero who can wield the sword of Gargatha to slay these evil warlocks. But there's a rumor that these evil warlocks have been killing virgins to gain immunity to the sword. I don't know what this would be analogous to but I though it would be fun to add.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Also , why is this under " Your Rights Online ?
" Nobody has a right to illegally download copyrighted materials.Because the rights of illegal downloading is not in question , it 's the right to host a site that tracks torrents .
You see , as long as there is a site that legitimately hosts non-copyrighted material , there will be people who post torrents that contain other material .
To the dismay of the record companies , there will never be an end to piracy , however , these sites should not be one to suffer .
While you may compare this to government shutting down legitimate bars that happen to be a gathering place for criminals that sell illegal weapons , there is a difference .
Imagine that these bars were magical , so that even a tiny bar would only have to have its name whispered to have vendors teleport their wares through that bar .
Some are even in a magical untouchable plane ( this would be similar to sites hosted out of jurisdiction ) .
Going after the largest bar because it 's very well known and mostly criminals use it would n't make much sense .
All the criminals would go elsewhere and you 'd have the same damn problem , until the evil warlocks responsible monopolize magic bars.Then we would have to wait for a hero who can wield the sword of Gargatha to slay these evil warlocks .
But there 's a rumor that these evil warlocks have been killing virgins to gain immunity to the sword .
I do n't know what this would be analogous to but I though it would be fun to add .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also, why is this under "Your Rights Online?
"  Nobody has a right to illegally download copyrighted materials.Because the rights of illegal downloading is not in question, it's the right to host a site that tracks torrents.
You see, as long as there is a site that legitimately hosts non-copyrighted material, there will be people who post torrents that contain other material.
To the dismay of the record companies, there will never be an end to piracy, however, these sites should not be one to suffer.
While you may compare this to government shutting down legitimate bars that happen to be a gathering place for criminals that sell illegal weapons, there is a difference.
Imagine that these bars were magical, so that even a tiny bar would only have to have its name whispered to have vendors teleport their wares through that bar.
Some are even in a magical untouchable plane (this would be similar to sites hosted out of jurisdiction).
Going after the largest bar because it's very well known and mostly criminals use it wouldn't make much sense.
All the criminals would go elsewhere and you'd have the same damn problem, until the evil warlocks responsible monopolize magic bars.Then we would have to wait for a hero who can wield the sword of Gargatha to slay these evil warlocks.
But there's a rumor that these evil warlocks have been killing virgins to gain immunity to the sword.
I don't know what this would be analogous to but I though it would be fun to add.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921157</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.30007964</id>
	<title>Re:silly companies</title>
	<author>pandrijeczko</author>
	<datestamp>1257537600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, all of those... but not necessarily more than once.</p><p>Although for the award for "the album which sounds most like a metal dustbin rolling down some stone steps", Master Of Puppets definitely comes closest.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , all of those... but not necessarily more than once.Although for the award for " the album which sounds most like a metal dustbin rolling down some stone steps " , Master Of Puppets definitely comes closest .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, all of those... but not necessarily more than once.Although for the award for "the album which sounds most like a metal dustbin rolling down some stone steps", Master Of Puppets definitely comes closest.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29922085</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921067</id>
	<title>Re:Oh dear</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256844720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I believe you're talking about Switzerland.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I believe you 're talking about Switzerland .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I believe you're talking about Switzerland.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921035</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921655</id>
	<title>Sh1t?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256897280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><A HREF="http://goat.cx/" title="goat.cx" rel="nofollow">nearly two years Goal here? How can America. You, AND BUILDING iS includes where you and 4ersonal eyes on the real</a> [goat.cx]</htmltext>
<tokenext>nearly two years Goal here ?
How can America .
You , AND BUILDING iS includes where you and 4ersonal eyes on the real [ goat.cx ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>nearly two years Goal here?
How can America.
You, AND BUILDING iS includes where you and 4ersonal eyes on the real [goat.cx]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29922045</id>
	<title>Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256904120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The crux of The Pirate Bay's existence is that it is not explicitly illegal under Swedish law to do what they do.</p></div><p>It wasn't, at least. The Swedish politicians caved in to pressure from RIAA, MPAA, their likes and American government pressure and eventually changed the law to suit them.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The crux of The Pirate Bay 's existence is that it is not explicitly illegal under Swedish law to do what they do.It was n't , at least .
The Swedish politicians caved in to pressure from RIAA , MPAA , their likes and American government pressure and eventually changed the law to suit them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The crux of The Pirate Bay's existence is that it is not explicitly illegal under Swedish law to do what they do.It wasn't, at least.
The Swedish politicians caved in to pressure from RIAA, MPAA, their likes and American government pressure and eventually changed the law to suit them.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921233</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29940875</id>
	<title>Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law</title>
	<author>Splintax</author>
	<datestamp>1257081360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>A famous philosopher once said that philosophy allowed him to do by choice what others did by the rule of law</p></div><p>Could you source that quote? It sounds interesting.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A famous philosopher once said that philosophy allowed him to do by choice what others did by the rule of lawCould you source that quote ?
It sounds interesting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A famous philosopher once said that philosophy allowed him to do by choice what others did by the rule of lawCould you source that quote?
It sounds interesting.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29923953</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29925893</id>
	<title>Re:R.I.P Media Industry... (2009 to -)</title>
	<author>jwhitener</author>
	<datestamp>1256926320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If enough things became 'free' there would be a change in the methods creating artificial scarcity to in order to keep costs high.</p><p>I think it was the book "Forever Peace" (probably many more) that talked about a world with Nano-Forges.  Throw dirt in it, and out comes whatever you want.  Gold, diamonds, a new car, etc..</p><p>Instead of everyone in the world having everything they wanted, governments gave everyone ration cards. Free, but a limited amount.  You could ask for anything you wanted, and different things cost different amounts of ration cards.  The Nano-Forges could only produce so much, so fast, as limited by the government.</p><p>Now if everyone had their own personal Nano-Forge, I'm sure that the free market/governments/somebody would limit something else.  Perhaps the electricity they use, or a law to put a regulator on them, or or or.</p><p>I hope something like Nano-Forges happens in my lifetime.  That would be very interesting watching how things turned out.  What if the 'blueprint' of something was the only way to control if a nano forge could make something.  Say the blueprint for a mercedes car was 'leaked' onto the internet and everyone in built one over night in their personal nano forges.  How would mercedes respond?  Heh.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If enough things became 'free ' there would be a change in the methods creating artificial scarcity to in order to keep costs high.I think it was the book " Forever Peace " ( probably many more ) that talked about a world with Nano-Forges .
Throw dirt in it , and out comes whatever you want .
Gold , diamonds , a new car , etc..Instead of everyone in the world having everything they wanted , governments gave everyone ration cards .
Free , but a limited amount .
You could ask for anything you wanted , and different things cost different amounts of ration cards .
The Nano-Forges could only produce so much , so fast , as limited by the government.Now if everyone had their own personal Nano-Forge , I 'm sure that the free market/governments/somebody would limit something else .
Perhaps the electricity they use , or a law to put a regulator on them , or or or.I hope something like Nano-Forges happens in my lifetime .
That would be very interesting watching how things turned out .
What if the 'blueprint ' of something was the only way to control if a nano forge could make something .
Say the blueprint for a mercedes car was 'leaked ' onto the internet and everyone in built one over night in their personal nano forges .
How would mercedes respond ?
Heh .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If enough things became 'free' there would be a change in the methods creating artificial scarcity to in order to keep costs high.I think it was the book "Forever Peace" (probably many more) that talked about a world with Nano-Forges.
Throw dirt in it, and out comes whatever you want.
Gold, diamonds, a new car, etc..Instead of everyone in the world having everything they wanted, governments gave everyone ration cards.
Free, but a limited amount.
You could ask for anything you wanted, and different things cost different amounts of ration cards.
The Nano-Forges could only produce so much, so fast, as limited by the government.Now if everyone had their own personal Nano-Forge, I'm sure that the free market/governments/somebody would limit something else.
Perhaps the electricity they use, or a law to put a regulator on them, or or or.I hope something like Nano-Forges happens in my lifetime.
That would be very interesting watching how things turned out.
What if the 'blueprint' of something was the only way to control if a nano forge could make something.
Say the blueprint for a mercedes car was 'leaked' onto the internet and everyone in built one over night in their personal nano forges.
How would mercedes respond?
Heh.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921089</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29922203</id>
	<title>Are they still in the EU?</title>
	<author>mister\_playboy</author>
	<datestamp>1256906460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From TorrentFreak's article:</p><p><i>Ex-Pirate Bay spokesman Peter Sunde, who appears to be excluded from the decision, is notably annoyed, noting that neither the founders nor the site are located in Sweden. He argues that the Swedish court has no jurisdiction in this case.</i></p><p><i>&ldquo;It means nothing,&rdquo; Peter told TorrentFreak, adding that it is bothersome that they have to invest time in cases like this.</i></p><p><i>&ldquo;The Stockholm City Court is located in Stockholm. Stockholm is in Sweden. Swedish borders apply. Frederick and Godfrid live outside Sweden, even outside the EU. The Pirate Bay is outside the EU,&rdquo; he told SR earlier today.</i></p><p><i>&ldquo;How then can the Stockholm District Court, Sweden, get to decide that people abroad must not work on a site in another country?&rdquo;</i></p><p>I have heard they and/or the site's servers are based in a former nuke bunker in the Netherlands, but I have also heard that they are now based in the Ukraine... Peter's comment seems to point to the latter, I guess.  Moving to the Netherlands (and BREIN) seemed like a dumb idea, IMO.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From TorrentFreak 's article : Ex-Pirate Bay spokesman Peter Sunde , who appears to be excluded from the decision , is notably annoyed , noting that neither the founders nor the site are located in Sweden .
He argues that the Swedish court has no jurisdiction in this case.    It means nothing ,    Peter told TorrentFreak , adding that it is bothersome that they have to invest time in cases like this.    The Stockholm City Court is located in Stockholm .
Stockholm is in Sweden .
Swedish borders apply .
Frederick and Godfrid live outside Sweden , even outside the EU .
The Pirate Bay is outside the EU ,    he told SR earlier today.    How then can the Stockholm District Court , Sweden , get to decide that people abroad must not work on a site in another country ?    I have heard they and/or the site 's servers are based in a former nuke bunker in the Netherlands , but I have also heard that they are now based in the Ukraine... Peter 's comment seems to point to the latter , I guess .
Moving to the Netherlands ( and BREIN ) seemed like a dumb idea , IMO .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From TorrentFreak's article:Ex-Pirate Bay spokesman Peter Sunde, who appears to be excluded from the decision, is notably annoyed, noting that neither the founders nor the site are located in Sweden.
He argues that the Swedish court has no jurisdiction in this case.“It means nothing,” Peter told TorrentFreak, adding that it is bothersome that they have to invest time in cases like this.“The Stockholm City Court is located in Stockholm.
Stockholm is in Sweden.
Swedish borders apply.
Frederick and Godfrid live outside Sweden, even outside the EU.
The Pirate Bay is outside the EU,” he told SR earlier today.“How then can the Stockholm District Court, Sweden, get to decide that people abroad must not work on a site in another country?”I have heard they and/or the site's servers are based in a former nuke bunker in the Netherlands, but I have also heard that they are now based in the Ukraine... Peter's comment seems to point to the latter, I guess.
Moving to the Netherlands (and BREIN) seemed like a dumb idea, IMO.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921069</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921533</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256895480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The reason it's filed under "your rights online" is because our legal rights are something we determine as a democratic society.</p><p>Rights do not refer to only to current rights, but also the discussion of future rights and changes of existing rights.</p><p>We as a society, should have the power, and say to change rights when majority agrees.</p><p>While downloading illegal torrents and piracy may be illegal now, there is an important discussion to be had regarding their place in humanity. Further more, there is a much larger discussion to be had about economics all together, and if perhaps there is a better way to live as citizens of our planet.</p><p>If we assume that right now, is the best we can do.... We might as well fucking die because as a species of intelligent people, we should always ask questions, invent new things, and reinvent old ideas.</p><p>Right now, we could be doing a lot more to help ALL OF US live a better, healthier life... with out poverty and greed... however we dont. WHY?</p><p>Maybe one day it will be the right of man, that we deserve much better than what we have now, and call a "civil" society.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The reason it 's filed under " your rights online " is because our legal rights are something we determine as a democratic society.Rights do not refer to only to current rights , but also the discussion of future rights and changes of existing rights.We as a society , should have the power , and say to change rights when majority agrees.While downloading illegal torrents and piracy may be illegal now , there is an important discussion to be had regarding their place in humanity .
Further more , there is a much larger discussion to be had about economics all together , and if perhaps there is a better way to live as citizens of our planet.If we assume that right now , is the best we can do.... We might as well fucking die because as a species of intelligent people , we should always ask questions , invent new things , and reinvent old ideas.Right now , we could be doing a lot more to help ALL OF US live a better , healthier life... with out poverty and greed... however we dont .
WHY ? Maybe one day it will be the right of man , that we deserve much better than what we have now , and call a " civil " society .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reason it's filed under "your rights online" is because our legal rights are something we determine as a democratic society.Rights do not refer to only to current rights, but also the discussion of future rights and changes of existing rights.We as a society, should have the power, and say to change rights when majority agrees.While downloading illegal torrents and piracy may be illegal now, there is an important discussion to be had regarding their place in humanity.
Further more, there is a much larger discussion to be had about economics all together, and if perhaps there is a better way to live as citizens of our planet.If we assume that right now, is the best we can do.... We might as well fucking die because as a species of intelligent people, we should always ask questions, invent new things, and reinvent old ideas.Right now, we could be doing a lot more to help ALL OF US live a better, healthier life... with out poverty and greed... however we dont.
WHY?Maybe one day it will be the right of man, that we deserve much better than what we have now, and call a "civil" society.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921157</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921631</id>
	<title>Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256897040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"interestingly" that's not quite right. As has happened before (forget the exact case name, etc) but some lady's friend knew, at some point, she was going to kill her then husband. The prosecution couldn't charge her with anything, since knowing that a crime will happen at some point in the future is of its self not a crime.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" interestingly " that 's not quite right .
As has happened before ( forget the exact case name , etc ) but some lady 's friend knew , at some point , she was going to kill her then husband .
The prosecution could n't charge her with anything , since knowing that a crime will happen at some point in the future is of its self not a crime .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"interestingly" that's not quite right.
As has happened before (forget the exact case name, etc) but some lady's friend knew, at some point, she was going to kill her then husband.
The prosecution couldn't charge her with anything, since knowing that a crime will happen at some point in the future is of its self not a crime.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921421</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29923425</id>
	<title>Re:silly companies</title>
	<author>OwMyBrain</author>
	<datestamp>1256916060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Absolutely! Metallica has made a lot of great music. Here's a list of their albums:</p><p>Kill 'Em All, 1983<br>Ride the Lightning, 1984<br>Master of Puppets, 1986<br>And Justice For All, 1988<br>Metallica (The Black Album), 1991</p><p>Totally understandable to forget Metallica makes music, considering they haven't made a new album since the early '90's, though<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Absolutely !
Metallica has made a lot of great music .
Here 's a list of their albums : Kill 'Em All , 1983Ride the Lightning , 1984Master of Puppets , 1986And Justice For All , 1988Metallica ( The Black Album ) , 1991Totally understandable to forget Metallica makes music , considering they have n't made a new album since the early '90 's , though : P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Absolutely!
Metallica has made a lot of great music.
Here's a list of their albums:Kill 'Em All, 1983Ride the Lightning, 1984Master of Puppets, 1986And Justice For All, 1988Metallica (The Black Album), 1991Totally understandable to forget Metallica makes music, considering they haven't made a new album since the early '90's, though :P</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921589</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29922395</id>
	<title>Let's stop pussyfooting aroung and call it what it</title>
	<author>TechnoGrl</author>
	<datestamp>1256909040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Torrenting and downloading is by and large an expression of civil disobedience in reaction to the complete lockdown the entertainment mafia has on the industry.  Fifteen bucks for a fracking CD ?  Forty for a DVD?  Right.</p><p>The corporate control of who gets to be distributed is nearly absolute - wonder why there's so little good music and new artists being put out by the major labels?  Wonder why FM radio sucks?</p><p>We all know it.<br>I'm just saying it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Torrenting and downloading is by and large an expression of civil disobedience in reaction to the complete lockdown the entertainment mafia has on the industry .
Fifteen bucks for a fracking CD ?
Forty for a DVD ?
Right.The corporate control of who gets to be distributed is nearly absolute - wonder why there 's so little good music and new artists being put out by the major labels ?
Wonder why FM radio sucks ? We all know it.I 'm just saying it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Torrenting and downloading is by and large an expression of civil disobedience in reaction to the complete lockdown the entertainment mafia has on the industry.
Fifteen bucks for a fracking CD ?
Forty for a DVD?
Right.The corporate control of who gets to be distributed is nearly absolute - wonder why there's so little good music and new artists being put out by the major labels?
Wonder why FM radio sucks?We all know it.I'm just saying it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921855</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256901240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Stop making it more complicated that it is just so you can avoid obeying the law.</p><p>Piratebay is a place where people go to steal software and movies - thats all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Stop making it more complicated that it is just so you can avoid obeying the law.Piratebay is a place where people go to steal software and movies - thats all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Stop making it more complicated that it is just so you can avoid obeying the law.Piratebay is a place where people go to steal software and movies - thats all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921249</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29928359</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256894400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"But I'm saying that ThePirateBay doesn't really have a right to exist, based on what the *laws* are."</p><p>What law says this?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" But I 'm saying that ThePirateBay does n't really have a right to exist , based on what the * laws * are .
" What law says this ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"But I'm saying that ThePirateBay doesn't really have a right to exist, based on what the *laws* are.
"What law says this?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921971</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921421</id>
	<title>Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256893980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Technically, they aren't committing copyright infringement.</p><p>Lets face reality though, Pirate Bay exists to facilitate copyright infringement.  You really can't deny that, it does not make any attempt what so ever to prevent it.  It was created by an anti-copyright organization.</p><p>You can't hold me responsible for a murder on my property that I had no idea was going on, didn't see, didn't intentionally facilitate and would have attempted to stop had I known about it..  But when on any given day (in fact several thousand times EVERYDAY), I can look out my window and watch it happening, while I sit and drink my coffee, its a slightly different story.  When the exclusive reason people come to my property is because I'll provide them with information on how to find victims, and then look the other way while they strangle those victims, I am most certainly responsible for the murders as much as the guy doing it.  They can't even say 'I was just following orders', unless you think that was a valid excuse for Hitler as well, considering he was giving the orders, I don't think anyone would go that far would they?</p><p>I wouldn't expect the courts to allow someone watching these murders to take place and not do anything about it, I hope you don't either.</p><p>Why do we feel any different about Pirate Bay?</p><p>Simple, no one really feels that copyright infringement is a crime on the order of magnitude that the content producers want to treat it.  If you want to fix the problem, change copyright law, don't allow loopholes around it.  Change the law that is the problem.</p><p>I have used torrents for legal downloads.  Torrents are not the problem.  P2P is not the problem.  Things that exist almost exclusively to facilitate copyright infringement ARE a problem.</p><p>I have never seen anything legal on TPB, I'm sure its there somewhere, but its not something I've noticed.  I've certainly never used it for anything legal.  I've used it to replace several lost/scratched disks and other content I actually own.  I've used to get things I don't own, I won't deny that.  But never once did I think it was 'legal'.</p><p><strong>I worry for the rule of the law when people can so easily skirt around it in this way.</strong></p><p>I would prefer that the copyright law was fixed.  I believe it will be.  According to Wikipedia, TPB ranks 107th most popular site in the world.  I'm obviously not alone.  I believe something will bring these laws to the public forefront enough that the content producers will be tarred, feathered, and strung from a tree, and finally we'll change the copyright law.  Until then, they ARE accessories to illegal activities by any sane standard on the planet.</p><p>Its silly to imply there is no evidence. if you've ever been to the site.</p><p>Again, I'm not against the site, its creators, or its purpose.  I'm also not so nieve as to try to imply its not one of the easiest ways on the planet to pirate software.  If anything, its made it something the general public can do with trivial time investment.  Not like the good old days of EFNet when it took some sort of know how to get at the warez.  Its far too easy now, and as such software and content is becoming more DRM infested.  This will come to a head.  Not in time to save the TPB guys, they will at best become martyrs.  Maybe this is the only way the law will get changed, but its silly to think they'll get away with it.  I wish them the best of luck, but I also know they certainly are guilty of facilitating illegal activities.</p><p>When you make comments like yours, and people mod them insightful, it just makes the anti-copyright movement seem all the more illegitimate.  Take legalized racism in America for example.  Riots and violence didn't make it go away, it just got people killed and hurt those being wronged more than those doing the wrong.  Peaceful and law abiding protest on a massive scale got it to go away (more or less, we're still working on it).  Breaking the law won't get it changed, voting can however.  Do your job as a citizen and you can fix the problem, IF its actually important enough to you to invest the time to do so.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Technically , they are n't committing copyright infringement.Lets face reality though , Pirate Bay exists to facilitate copyright infringement .
You really ca n't deny that , it does not make any attempt what so ever to prevent it .
It was created by an anti-copyright organization.You ca n't hold me responsible for a murder on my property that I had no idea was going on , did n't see , did n't intentionally facilitate and would have attempted to stop had I known about it.. But when on any given day ( in fact several thousand times EVERYDAY ) , I can look out my window and watch it happening , while I sit and drink my coffee , its a slightly different story .
When the exclusive reason people come to my property is because I 'll provide them with information on how to find victims , and then look the other way while they strangle those victims , I am most certainly responsible for the murders as much as the guy doing it .
They ca n't even say 'I was just following orders ' , unless you think that was a valid excuse for Hitler as well , considering he was giving the orders , I do n't think anyone would go that far would they ? I would n't expect the courts to allow someone watching these murders to take place and not do anything about it , I hope you do n't either.Why do we feel any different about Pirate Bay ? Simple , no one really feels that copyright infringement is a crime on the order of magnitude that the content producers want to treat it .
If you want to fix the problem , change copyright law , do n't allow loopholes around it .
Change the law that is the problem.I have used torrents for legal downloads .
Torrents are not the problem .
P2P is not the problem .
Things that exist almost exclusively to facilitate copyright infringement ARE a problem.I have never seen anything legal on TPB , I 'm sure its there somewhere , but its not something I 've noticed .
I 've certainly never used it for anything legal .
I 've used it to replace several lost/scratched disks and other content I actually own .
I 've used to get things I do n't own , I wo n't deny that .
But never once did I think it was 'legal'.I worry for the rule of the law when people can so easily skirt around it in this way.I would prefer that the copyright law was fixed .
I believe it will be .
According to Wikipedia , TPB ranks 107th most popular site in the world .
I 'm obviously not alone .
I believe something will bring these laws to the public forefront enough that the content producers will be tarred , feathered , and strung from a tree , and finally we 'll change the copyright law .
Until then , they ARE accessories to illegal activities by any sane standard on the planet.Its silly to imply there is no evidence .
if you 've ever been to the site.Again , I 'm not against the site , its creators , or its purpose .
I 'm also not so nieve as to try to imply its not one of the easiest ways on the planet to pirate software .
If anything , its made it something the general public can do with trivial time investment .
Not like the good old days of EFNet when it took some sort of know how to get at the warez .
Its far too easy now , and as such software and content is becoming more DRM infested .
This will come to a head .
Not in time to save the TPB guys , they will at best become martyrs .
Maybe this is the only way the law will get changed , but its silly to think they 'll get away with it .
I wish them the best of luck , but I also know they certainly are guilty of facilitating illegal activities.When you make comments like yours , and people mod them insightful , it just makes the anti-copyright movement seem all the more illegitimate .
Take legalized racism in America for example .
Riots and violence did n't make it go away , it just got people killed and hurt those being wronged more than those doing the wrong .
Peaceful and law abiding protest on a massive scale got it to go away ( more or less , we 're still working on it ) .
Breaking the law wo n't get it changed , voting can however .
Do your job as a citizen and you can fix the problem , IF its actually important enough to you to invest the time to do so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Technically, they aren't committing copyright infringement.Lets face reality though, Pirate Bay exists to facilitate copyright infringement.
You really can't deny that, it does not make any attempt what so ever to prevent it.
It was created by an anti-copyright organization.You can't hold me responsible for a murder on my property that I had no idea was going on, didn't see, didn't intentionally facilitate and would have attempted to stop had I known about it..  But when on any given day (in fact several thousand times EVERYDAY), I can look out my window and watch it happening, while I sit and drink my coffee, its a slightly different story.
When the exclusive reason people come to my property is because I'll provide them with information on how to find victims, and then look the other way while they strangle those victims, I am most certainly responsible for the murders as much as the guy doing it.
They can't even say 'I was just following orders', unless you think that was a valid excuse for Hitler as well, considering he was giving the orders, I don't think anyone would go that far would they?I wouldn't expect the courts to allow someone watching these murders to take place and not do anything about it, I hope you don't either.Why do we feel any different about Pirate Bay?Simple, no one really feels that copyright infringement is a crime on the order of magnitude that the content producers want to treat it.
If you want to fix the problem, change copyright law, don't allow loopholes around it.
Change the law that is the problem.I have used torrents for legal downloads.
Torrents are not the problem.
P2P is not the problem.
Things that exist almost exclusively to facilitate copyright infringement ARE a problem.I have never seen anything legal on TPB, I'm sure its there somewhere, but its not something I've noticed.
I've certainly never used it for anything legal.
I've used it to replace several lost/scratched disks and other content I actually own.
I've used to get things I don't own, I won't deny that.
But never once did I think it was 'legal'.I worry for the rule of the law when people can so easily skirt around it in this way.I would prefer that the copyright law was fixed.
I believe it will be.
According to Wikipedia, TPB ranks 107th most popular site in the world.
I'm obviously not alone.
I believe something will bring these laws to the public forefront enough that the content producers will be tarred, feathered, and strung from a tree, and finally we'll change the copyright law.
Until then, they ARE accessories to illegal activities by any sane standard on the planet.Its silly to imply there is no evidence.
if you've ever been to the site.Again, I'm not against the site, its creators, or its purpose.
I'm also not so nieve as to try to imply its not one of the easiest ways on the planet to pirate software.
If anything, its made it something the general public can do with trivial time investment.
Not like the good old days of EFNet when it took some sort of know how to get at the warez.
Its far too easy now, and as such software and content is becoming more DRM infested.
This will come to a head.
Not in time to save the TPB guys, they will at best become martyrs.
Maybe this is the only way the law will get changed, but its silly to think they'll get away with it.
I wish them the best of luck, but I also know they certainly are guilty of facilitating illegal activities.When you make comments like yours, and people mod them insightful, it just makes the anti-copyright movement seem all the more illegitimate.
Take legalized racism in America for example.
Riots and violence didn't make it go away, it just got people killed and hurt those being wronged more than those doing the wrong.
Peaceful and law abiding protest on a massive scale got it to go away (more or less, we're still working on it).
Breaking the law won't get it changed, voting can however.
Do your job as a citizen and you can fix the problem, IF its actually important enough to you to invest the time to do so.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921233</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921611</id>
	<title>Re:silly companies</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256896800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You sir, are an idiot.  Napster was a joke compared to the tools of today.  I remember dealing with kazaa after Napster and still thinking it sucked until I saw soulseek, where I could get full high quality underground albums easily.  Then from there, it evolved to torrents and private torrent sites that track tons of albums/software/etc and give incentive to share.  I am sorry, but now I can download a 320kbps album in 10 secs.  That's way faster than downloading it with DRM the legal way.  And, you say napster was the high point of p2p....  Please join the 21st century</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You sir , are an idiot .
Napster was a joke compared to the tools of today .
I remember dealing with kazaa after Napster and still thinking it sucked until I saw soulseek , where I could get full high quality underground albums easily .
Then from there , it evolved to torrents and private torrent sites that track tons of albums/software/etc and give incentive to share .
I am sorry , but now I can download a 320kbps album in 10 secs .
That 's way faster than downloading it with DRM the legal way .
And , you say napster was the high point of p2p.... Please join the 21st century</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You sir, are an idiot.
Napster was a joke compared to the tools of today.
I remember dealing with kazaa after Napster and still thinking it sucked until I saw soulseek, where I could get full high quality underground albums easily.
Then from there, it evolved to torrents and private torrent sites that track tons of albums/software/etc and give incentive to share.
I am sorry, but now I can download a 320kbps album in 10 secs.
That's way faster than downloading it with DRM the legal way.
And, you say napster was the high point of p2p....  Please join the 21st century</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921457</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29924295</id>
	<title>Why so many court cases at once?</title>
	<author>Lemming Mark</author>
	<datestamp>1256919840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why is everyone finding against TPB simultaneously all of a sudden?  I understood there had been changes in Swedish law but there was also a verdict from a Dutch court recently so<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... what gives?  Years of little activity then suddenly courts are falling over themselves to rule on it?  The courts can only hear cases that are brought to them, of course - but why all these separate cases at the same time?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why is everyone finding against TPB simultaneously all of a sudden ?
I understood there had been changes in Swedish law but there was also a verdict from a Dutch court recently so ... what gives ?
Years of little activity then suddenly courts are falling over themselves to rule on it ?
The courts can only hear cases that are brought to them , of course - but why all these separate cases at the same time ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why is everyone finding against TPB simultaneously all of a sudden?
I understood there had been changes in Swedish law but there was also a verdict from a Dutch court recently so ... what gives?
Years of little activity then suddenly courts are falling over themselves to rule on it?
The courts can only hear cases that are brought to them, of course - but why all these separate cases at the same time?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921817</id>
	<title>Re:Oh no!</title>
	<author>selven</author>
	<datestamp>1256900820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you remove a thief the amount of theft goes down. If you remove pirate site the amount of piracy will not go down. That's the difference.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you remove a thief the amount of theft goes down .
If you remove pirate site the amount of piracy will not go down .
That 's the difference .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you remove a thief the amount of theft goes down.
If you remove pirate site the amount of piracy will not go down.
That's the difference.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921099</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921099</id>
	<title>Re:Oh no!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256845080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What will we do without THE ONLY TORRENT TRACKER?</p><p>And we don't even have an alternate tracker that tracks every TPB torrent! If only someone had made OpenBitTorrent.com in time!</p></div><p>That's not the point of enforcing the law. You don't leave thieves, embezzlers or whatever alone because there's a lot more of them out there. You catch the ones you can. (No I don't really think the piratebay should be shut down but it IS a stupid argument.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What will we do without THE ONLY TORRENT TRACKER ? And we do n't even have an alternate tracker that tracks every TPB torrent !
If only someone had made OpenBitTorrent.com in time ! That 's not the point of enforcing the law .
You do n't leave thieves , embezzlers or whatever alone because there 's a lot more of them out there .
You catch the ones you can .
( No I do n't really think the piratebay should be shut down but it IS a stupid argument .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What will we do without THE ONLY TORRENT TRACKER?And we don't even have an alternate tracker that tracks every TPB torrent!
If only someone had made OpenBitTorrent.com in time!That's not the point of enforcing the law.
You don't leave thieves, embezzlers or whatever alone because there's a lot more of them out there.
You catch the ones you can.
(No I don't really think the piratebay should be shut down but it IS a stupid argument.
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921001</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921625</id>
	<title>Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256896980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Lets face reality though, Pirate Bay exists to facilitate copyright infringement.</p> </div><p>Lets face reality though, weapons exists to facilitate life infringement.<br>Don't see many courts trying to shutdown all those weapons!</p><p>We need the Wookiee defense.<br>And I must say we all live in a very strange world, Endor has nothing compared to Earth.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Lets face reality though , Pirate Bay exists to facilitate copyright infringement .
Lets face reality though , weapons exists to facilitate life infringement.Do n't see many courts trying to shutdown all those weapons ! We need the Wookiee defense.And I must say we all live in a very strange world , Endor has nothing compared to Earth .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lets face reality though, Pirate Bay exists to facilitate copyright infringement.
Lets face reality though, weapons exists to facilitate life infringement.Don't see many courts trying to shutdown all those weapons!We need the Wookiee defense.And I must say we all live in a very strange world, Endor has nothing compared to Earth.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921421</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29924217</id>
	<title>why now?</title>
	<author>qtriangle</author>
	<datestamp>1256919540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They had to close it years ago.
It is too late to contain the damage.
But still, better late than never.</htmltext>
<tokenext>They had to close it years ago .
It is too late to contain the damage .
But still , better late than never .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They had to close it years ago.
It is too late to contain the damage.
But still, better late than never.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29922113</id>
	<title>Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law</title>
	<author>emj</author>
	<datestamp>1256905380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes it's sad that we have to discuss this, it's pretty obvious they are facilitating and they are tools for denying that it made them look like idiots in the court. Sigh. But I'm more worried about what the court decided, according to wikipedia "The sentence is the longest ever awarded under Swedish copyright law" and that's for facilitating.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes it 's sad that we have to discuss this , it 's pretty obvious they are facilitating and they are tools for denying that it made them look like idiots in the court .
Sigh. But I 'm more worried about what the court decided , according to wikipedia " The sentence is the longest ever awarded under Swedish copyright law " and that 's for facilitating .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes it's sad that we have to discuss this, it's pretty obvious they are facilitating and they are tools for denying that it made them look like idiots in the court.
Sigh. But I'm more worried about what the court decided, according to wikipedia "The sentence is the longest ever awarded under Swedish copyright law" and that's for facilitating.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921421</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29923241</id>
	<title>Re:Oh no!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256915100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That'll never work.  For anything high-definition, buying it isn't an option, because they only sell as BluRay and there isn't yet a convenient way to play them.  Downloading is the only thing that reliably works.</p><p>These morons <em>caused</em> piracy when they decide to use DRM.  They're either going to have to get into the content sales business by dropping DRM, or get used to the fact that only pirates are going to have the patience to decrypt the discs and then everyone else will get the playable movies from the pirates.</p><p>They have the power to open for business at any time.  If they don't want to, though, no one except the stockholders can make them do it.  It all comes down to whether or not the owners figure out about the horrific mismanagement in time to fire the pro-DRM guys.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 'll never work .
For anything high-definition , buying it is n't an option , because they only sell as BluRay and there is n't yet a convenient way to play them .
Downloading is the only thing that reliably works.These morons caused piracy when they decide to use DRM .
They 're either going to have to get into the content sales business by dropping DRM , or get used to the fact that only pirates are going to have the patience to decrypt the discs and then everyone else will get the playable movies from the pirates.They have the power to open for business at any time .
If they do n't want to , though , no one except the stockholders can make them do it .
It all comes down to whether or not the owners figure out about the horrific mismanagement in time to fire the pro-DRM guys .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That'll never work.
For anything high-definition, buying it isn't an option, because they only sell as BluRay and there isn't yet a convenient way to play them.
Downloading is the only thing that reliably works.These morons caused piracy when they decide to use DRM.
They're either going to have to get into the content sales business by dropping DRM, or get used to the fact that only pirates are going to have the patience to decrypt the discs and then everyone else will get the playable movies from the pirates.They have the power to open for business at any time.
If they don't want to, though, no one except the stockholders can make them do it.
It all comes down to whether or not the owners figure out about the horrific mismanagement in time to fire the pro-DRM guys.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921213</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921999</id>
	<title>Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law</title>
	<author>uffe\_nordholm</author>
	<datestamp>1256903340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>As I remember it, concensus amongst geeks here in Sweden was indeed that TPB could not be convicted in court unless there was a conviction for copyright infringement first. At the moment, nobody knows whether this still stands or not, since there is a mighty mess about the case: the verdict from the first court has been appealed, and has not arrived in the next court yet.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As I remember it , concensus amongst geeks here in Sweden was indeed that TPB could not be convicted in court unless there was a conviction for copyright infringement first .
At the moment , nobody knows whether this still stands or not , since there is a mighty mess about the case : the verdict from the first court has been appealed , and has not arrived in the next court yet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As I remember it, concensus amongst geeks here in Sweden was indeed that TPB could not be convicted in court unless there was a conviction for copyright infringement first.
At the moment, nobody knows whether this still stands or not, since there is a mighty mess about the case: the verdict from the first court has been appealed, and has not arrived in the next court yet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921233</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921341</id>
	<title>Those are some nice files .. you got on your disk!</title>
	<author>freaker\_TuC</author>
	<datestamp>1256935980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A discussion belonging more to the kingdom of Al Capone<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p><p>"Hey son, That's some nice media collection you got your PC, would be a shame, ya know? if something happened to it, such nice media collection... ya know?"<br>"... Oh, Country western music, we should have brought shotguns for this!"<br>".. would break my heart!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A discussion belonging more to the kingdom of Al Capone ... " Hey son , That 's some nice media collection you got your PC , would be a shame , ya know ?
if something happened to it , such nice media collection... ya know ? " " .. .
Oh , Country western music , we should have brought shotguns for this ! " " . .
would break my heart !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A discussion belonging more to the kingdom of Al Capone ..."Hey son, That's some nice media collection you got your PC, would be a shame, ya know?
if something happened to it, such nice media collection... ya know?""...
Oh, Country western music, we should have brought shotguns for this!""..
would break my heart!
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921035</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921089</id>
	<title>R.I.P  Media Industry... (2009 to -)</title>
	<author>fibrewire</author>
	<datestamp>1256844960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe the problem is that so many companies out there can fail because of a free internet. Then again, i wonder what other business models would fail because of a similar "free" something. Medicine? Voting? Any ideas?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe the problem is that so many companies out there can fail because of a free internet .
Then again , i wonder what other business models would fail because of a similar " free " something .
Medicine ? Voting ?
Any ideas ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe the problem is that so many companies out there can fail because of a free internet.
Then again, i wonder what other business models would fail because of a similar "free" something.
Medicine? Voting?
Any ideas?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921905</id>
	<title>A mind is a terrible thing to waste.</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1256901960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>No, but we certainly have the right to download torrents, which are legal in themselves! They aren't copyrighted material; they are pointers to copyrighted material!</i> </p><p>Watching a geek self-destruct in the courtroom is one of life's most innocent pleasures.</p><p>You have a BT client installed.</p><p>You click on a link - and the infringing file arrives  piece by piece to be assembled within your computer.</p><p>No other action on your part is anticipated or required.</p><p>That is all anyone needs to know. The interior mechanics of the system are irrelevant.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , but we certainly have the right to download torrents , which are legal in themselves !
They are n't copyrighted material ; they are pointers to copyrighted material !
Watching a geek self-destruct in the courtroom is one of life 's most innocent pleasures.You have a BT client installed.You click on a link - and the infringing file arrives piece by piece to be assembled within your computer.No other action on your part is anticipated or required.That is all anyone needs to know .
The interior mechanics of the system are irrelevant .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, but we certainly have the right to download torrents, which are legal in themselves!
They aren't copyrighted material; they are pointers to copyrighted material!
Watching a geek self-destruct in the courtroom is one of life's most innocent pleasures.You have a BT client installed.You click on a link - and the infringing file arrives  piece by piece to be assembled within your computer.No other action on your part is anticipated or required.That is all anyone needs to know.
The interior mechanics of the system are irrelevant.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921237</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29925073</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1256922660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>But there's a rumor that these evil warlocks have been killing virgins to gain immunity to the sword</i></p><p>Uh oh, <a href="http://slashdot.org/~virgin" title="slashdot.org">this guy's</a> [slashdot.org] in deep trouble! As is <a href="http://www.virginrecords.com/" title="virginrecords.com">this</a> [virginrecords.com] record company!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But there 's a rumor that these evil warlocks have been killing virgins to gain immunity to the swordUh oh , this guy 's [ slashdot.org ] in deep trouble !
As is this [ virginrecords.com ] record company !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But there's a rumor that these evil warlocks have been killing virgins to gain immunity to the swordUh oh, this guy's [slashdot.org] in deep trouble!
As is this [virginrecords.com] record company!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921249</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29923725</id>
	<title>Re:A mind is a terrible thing to waste.</title>
	<author>slim</author>
	<datestamp>1256917380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>By analogy, if I tell someone 'look that guy's left his lawnmower unsecured', am I responsible when it later gets stolen?</p><p>I think it's ambiguous.</p><p>Now, what if I set up a bulletin board with a list of gardens containing unsecured lawnmowers?</p><p>What TPB does is just that. "If you go here, you can download a movie". I don't think it's by any means clear whether that's incitement, being an accessory, or not. And it will depend on varying national laws.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>By analogy , if I tell someone 'look that guy 's left his lawnmower unsecured ' , am I responsible when it later gets stolen ? I think it 's ambiguous.Now , what if I set up a bulletin board with a list of gardens containing unsecured lawnmowers ? What TPB does is just that .
" If you go here , you can download a movie " .
I do n't think it 's by any means clear whether that 's incitement , being an accessory , or not .
And it will depend on varying national laws .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>By analogy, if I tell someone 'look that guy's left his lawnmower unsecured', am I responsible when it later gets stolen?I think it's ambiguous.Now, what if I set up a bulletin board with a list of gardens containing unsecured lawnmowers?What TPB does is just that.
"If you go here, you can download a movie".
I don't think it's by any means clear whether that's incitement, being an accessory, or not.
And it will depend on varying national laws.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921905</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29924941</id>
	<title>So close it already</title>
	<author>Locke2005</author>
	<datestamp>1256922240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Can't they just change the name from "The Pirate Bay" to "The Good Friends of Copyright Holders Who Would Never Even Think of Condoning downloading of Copyrighted Materials Bay", and then carry on business as usual? Isn't "closing" a domain and changing the registered domain name the same thing? Large corporations undergo name changes to obscure their sleazy reputation all the time -- why can't the Pirate Bay?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ca n't they just change the name from " The Pirate Bay " to " The Good Friends of Copyright Holders Who Would Never Even Think of Condoning downloading of Copyrighted Materials Bay " , and then carry on business as usual ?
Is n't " closing " a domain and changing the registered domain name the same thing ?
Large corporations undergo name changes to obscure their sleazy reputation all the time -- why ca n't the Pirate Bay ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can't they just change the name from "The Pirate Bay" to "The Good Friends of Copyright Holders Who Would Never Even Think of Condoning downloading of Copyrighted Materials Bay", and then carry on business as usual?
Isn't "closing" a domain and changing the registered domain name the same thing?
Large corporations undergo name changes to obscure their sleazy reputation all the time -- why can't the Pirate Bay?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29925041</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>Herkum01</author>
	<datestamp>1256922540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your missing the part about putting on your wizard hat and robe...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your missing the part about putting on your wizard hat and robe.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your missing the part about putting on your wizard hat and robe...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921249</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29922543</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>aaaaaaargh!</author>
	<datestamp>1256910540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Apparently you've never been in an underground club, because there are plenty of completely legal underground clubs that encourage the use of illicit drugs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Apparently you 've never been in an underground club , because there are plenty of completely legal underground clubs that encourage the use of illicit drugs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Apparently you've never been in an underground club, because there are plenty of completely legal underground clubs that encourage the use of illicit drugs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921971</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29922589</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>aussie\_a</author>
	<datestamp>1256910900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No your honour, this isn't illegal child porn. Its a series of 1s and 0s.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No your honour , this is n't illegal child porn .
Its a series of 1s and 0s .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No your honour, this isn't illegal child porn.
Its a series of 1s and 0s.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921441</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29925693</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>jwhitener</author>
	<datestamp>1256925300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I often wonder how the law would treat a site with a less jaded intention?</p><p>Say I open a site called "www.legaldownloads.com", "a place to share content you have created or content that is legally public, please don't abuse the system".  Would that be immune merely because it has a different intent?  Historically, that doesn't seem to be the case, however, consider a real world example.</p><p>Say I buy up 4 blocks in a city, and create a park.  I advertise it, as anyone is welcome, and provide all sorts of infrastructure like swings, monkey bars, etc.. most of the 'play' is initially legal. I also have a public swimming pool, and provide infrastructure to allow someone to change clothes (a booth/hut). Over time, drug dealers start moving in, and the park becomes notorious for illegal activities. Drug dealers/users start using my infrastructure, the private booths, to sell and use.</p><p>Am I know liable for facilitating drug sales or drug use?  Shouldn't the cops be going after the drug users individually and not the person who created the infrastructure?</p><p>I really disagree with any site being taken down just for creating infrastructure that allows the sharing of files.  Go after the users, they are the ones engaged in illegal activity.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I often wonder how the law would treat a site with a less jaded intention ? Say I open a site called " www.legaldownloads.com " , " a place to share content you have created or content that is legally public , please do n't abuse the system " .
Would that be immune merely because it has a different intent ?
Historically , that does n't seem to be the case , however , consider a real world example.Say I buy up 4 blocks in a city , and create a park .
I advertise it , as anyone is welcome , and provide all sorts of infrastructure like swings , monkey bars , etc.. most of the 'play ' is initially legal .
I also have a public swimming pool , and provide infrastructure to allow someone to change clothes ( a booth/hut ) .
Over time , drug dealers start moving in , and the park becomes notorious for illegal activities .
Drug dealers/users start using my infrastructure , the private booths , to sell and use.Am I know liable for facilitating drug sales or drug use ?
Should n't the cops be going after the drug users individually and not the person who created the infrastructure ? I really disagree with any site being taken down just for creating infrastructure that allows the sharing of files .
Go after the users , they are the ones engaged in illegal activity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I often wonder how the law would treat a site with a less jaded intention?Say I open a site called "www.legaldownloads.com", "a place to share content you have created or content that is legally public, please don't abuse the system".
Would that be immune merely because it has a different intent?
Historically, that doesn't seem to be the case, however, consider a real world example.Say I buy up 4 blocks in a city, and create a park.
I advertise it, as anyone is welcome, and provide all sorts of infrastructure like swings, monkey bars, etc.. most of the 'play' is initially legal.
I also have a public swimming pool, and provide infrastructure to allow someone to change clothes (a booth/hut).
Over time, drug dealers start moving in, and the park becomes notorious for illegal activities.
Drug dealers/users start using my infrastructure, the private booths, to sell and use.Am I know liable for facilitating drug sales or drug use?
Shouldn't the cops be going after the drug users individually and not the person who created the infrastructure?I really disagree with any site being taken down just for creating infrastructure that allows the sharing of files.
Go after the users, they are the ones engaged in illegal activity.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921971</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921971</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256903040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the fact that ThePirateBay hosts a few legal things means that it should legally be allowed to exist means that there is a problem in the law.</p><p>If there is some underground club which encourages the use of illicit drugs, and seems to be created for the main purpose of creating a haven for drug-use, then they can't argue "But we also serve alcohol legally!" when the cops shut it down.</p><p>Fact is, ThePirateBay was created, and exists as a source for illegal downloads. Anyone who argues that it's there for legal content is either an idiot, or one of their lawyers who are trying to use the law to their advantage.</p><p>Of course, I'm not necessarily advocating that ThePirateBay should be shut down. I love my illegal content. But I'm saying that ThePirateBay doesn't really have a right to exist, based on what the *laws* are. (You can argue that those laws should be changed - but that's a separate issue)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the fact that ThePirateBay hosts a few legal things means that it should legally be allowed to exist means that there is a problem in the law.If there is some underground club which encourages the use of illicit drugs , and seems to be created for the main purpose of creating a haven for drug-use , then they ca n't argue " But we also serve alcohol legally !
" when the cops shut it down.Fact is , ThePirateBay was created , and exists as a source for illegal downloads .
Anyone who argues that it 's there for legal content is either an idiot , or one of their lawyers who are trying to use the law to their advantage.Of course , I 'm not necessarily advocating that ThePirateBay should be shut down .
I love my illegal content .
But I 'm saying that ThePirateBay does n't really have a right to exist , based on what the * laws * are .
( You can argue that those laws should be changed - but that 's a separate issue )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the fact that ThePirateBay hosts a few legal things means that it should legally be allowed to exist means that there is a problem in the law.If there is some underground club which encourages the use of illicit drugs, and seems to be created for the main purpose of creating a haven for drug-use, then they can't argue "But we also serve alcohol legally!
" when the cops shut it down.Fact is, ThePirateBay was created, and exists as a source for illegal downloads.
Anyone who argues that it's there for legal content is either an idiot, or one of their lawyers who are trying to use the law to their advantage.Of course, I'm not necessarily advocating that ThePirateBay should be shut down.
I love my illegal content.
But I'm saying that ThePirateBay doesn't really have a right to exist, based on what the *laws* are.
(You can argue that those laws should be changed - but that's a separate issue)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921237</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29925999</id>
	<title>Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law</title>
	<author>jwhitener</author>
	<datestamp>1256926800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"You can't hold me responsible for a murder on my property that I had no idea was going on, didn't see, didn't intentionally facilitate and would have attempted to stop had I known about it.. But when on any given day (in fact several thousand times EVERYDAY), I can look out my window and watch it happening, while I sit and drink my coffee, its a slightly different story. When the exclusive reason people come to my property is because I'll provide them with information on how to find victims, and then look the other way while they strangle those victims, I am most certainly responsible for the murders as much as the guy doing it. They can't even say 'I was just following orders', unless you think that was a valid excuse for Hitler as well, considering he was giving the orders, I don't think anyone would go that far would they?"</p><p>If I open a park in a city, with a swimming pool, that has changing rooms, and drug dealers start using those rooms to sell/use, am I facilitating the sale/use of drugs?</p><p>Is there any legal way to build infrastructure to allow people to share files, with intent that they be legal files, without placing the burden of policing that infrastructure on the site owner?</p><p>If not, then the law is broke.  The police should go after the drug dealers (copy right infringers), not the park owner (infrastructure owner).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" You ca n't hold me responsible for a murder on my property that I had no idea was going on , did n't see , did n't intentionally facilitate and would have attempted to stop had I known about it.. But when on any given day ( in fact several thousand times EVERYDAY ) , I can look out my window and watch it happening , while I sit and drink my coffee , its a slightly different story .
When the exclusive reason people come to my property is because I 'll provide them with information on how to find victims , and then look the other way while they strangle those victims , I am most certainly responsible for the murders as much as the guy doing it .
They ca n't even say 'I was just following orders ' , unless you think that was a valid excuse for Hitler as well , considering he was giving the orders , I do n't think anyone would go that far would they ?
" If I open a park in a city , with a swimming pool , that has changing rooms , and drug dealers start using those rooms to sell/use , am I facilitating the sale/use of drugs ? Is there any legal way to build infrastructure to allow people to share files , with intent that they be legal files , without placing the burden of policing that infrastructure on the site owner ? If not , then the law is broke .
The police should go after the drug dealers ( copy right infringers ) , not the park owner ( infrastructure owner ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"You can't hold me responsible for a murder on my property that I had no idea was going on, didn't see, didn't intentionally facilitate and would have attempted to stop had I known about it.. But when on any given day (in fact several thousand times EVERYDAY), I can look out my window and watch it happening, while I sit and drink my coffee, its a slightly different story.
When the exclusive reason people come to my property is because I'll provide them with information on how to find victims, and then look the other way while they strangle those victims, I am most certainly responsible for the murders as much as the guy doing it.
They can't even say 'I was just following orders', unless you think that was a valid excuse for Hitler as well, considering he was giving the orders, I don't think anyone would go that far would they?
"If I open a park in a city, with a swimming pool, that has changing rooms, and drug dealers start using those rooms to sell/use, am I facilitating the sale/use of drugs?Is there any legal way to build infrastructure to allow people to share files, with intent that they be legal files, without placing the burden of policing that infrastructure on the site owner?If not, then the law is broke.
The police should go after the drug dealers (copy right infringers), not the park owner (infrastructure owner).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921421</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29927369</id>
	<title>Re:This is a significant breakdown in the law</title>
	<author>ffflala</author>
	<datestamp>1256933040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Why do we feel any different about Pirate Bay?</p><p>Simple, no one really feels that copyright infringement is a crime on the order of magnitude that the content producers want to treat it.  If you want to fix the problem, change copyright law, don't allow loopholes around it.  Change the law that is the problem.</p></div><p>I agree with you in principle however, for a consumer, changing copyright law is several orders of magnitude more difficult than it is to simply break copyright law without facing legal consequences.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do we feel any different about Pirate Bay ? Simple , no one really feels that copyright infringement is a crime on the order of magnitude that the content producers want to treat it .
If you want to fix the problem , change copyright law , do n't allow loopholes around it .
Change the law that is the problem.I agree with you in principle however , for a consumer , changing copyright law is several orders of magnitude more difficult than it is to simply break copyright law without facing legal consequences .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why do we feel any different about Pirate Bay?Simple, no one really feels that copyright infringement is a crime on the order of magnitude that the content producers want to treat it.
If you want to fix the problem, change copyright law, don't allow loopholes around it.
Change the law that is the problem.I agree with you in principle however, for a consumer, changing copyright law is several orders of magnitude more difficult than it is to simply break copyright law without facing legal consequences.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921421</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921233</id>
	<title>This is a significant breakdown in the law</title>
	<author>erroneus</author>
	<datestamp>1256933940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The crux of The Pirate Bay's existence is that it is not explicitly illegal under Swedish law to do what they do.  We know what torrent technology is and how it works and how it is used.  There is no need to go into that.  The pirate bay tracks, indexes and serves up torrent file.  It is not copyrighted data or information.</p><p>The new spin is that they have been convicted of being an accessory to copyright infringement but there is no specific instance of copyright infringement having been associated with the charge.  It seems to me that you would first have to prove an offence occurred before someone can be charged with being an accessory to an offence.  Can someone be charged with accessory to murder without proof that a murder took place?  I understand there is a general and accepted fact that The Pirate Bay does indeed contribute to copyright infringement, but in a court of law where proof and evidence are important, it seems pretty dangerous to convict someone on established presumptions rather than fact based on evidence and that there should be an original offence, based on fact based evidence, to associate with an accessory charge.</p><p>Sweden showed that they have integrity of their judicial process by not charging TPB with copyright infringement as their laws do not identify their activities as copyright infringement.  Good.  But charging them as an accessory to an unidentified offence is a departure from that judicial integrity.</p><p>I worry for the rule of law when people can be charged with crimes in this way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The crux of The Pirate Bay 's existence is that it is not explicitly illegal under Swedish law to do what they do .
We know what torrent technology is and how it works and how it is used .
There is no need to go into that .
The pirate bay tracks , indexes and serves up torrent file .
It is not copyrighted data or information.The new spin is that they have been convicted of being an accessory to copyright infringement but there is no specific instance of copyright infringement having been associated with the charge .
It seems to me that you would first have to prove an offence occurred before someone can be charged with being an accessory to an offence .
Can someone be charged with accessory to murder without proof that a murder took place ?
I understand there is a general and accepted fact that The Pirate Bay does indeed contribute to copyright infringement , but in a court of law where proof and evidence are important , it seems pretty dangerous to convict someone on established presumptions rather than fact based on evidence and that there should be an original offence , based on fact based evidence , to associate with an accessory charge.Sweden showed that they have integrity of their judicial process by not charging TPB with copyright infringement as their laws do not identify their activities as copyright infringement .
Good. But charging them as an accessory to an unidentified offence is a departure from that judicial integrity.I worry for the rule of law when people can be charged with crimes in this way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The crux of The Pirate Bay's existence is that it is not explicitly illegal under Swedish law to do what they do.
We know what torrent technology is and how it works and how it is used.
There is no need to go into that.
The pirate bay tracks, indexes and serves up torrent file.
It is not copyrighted data or information.The new spin is that they have been convicted of being an accessory to copyright infringement but there is no specific instance of copyright infringement having been associated with the charge.
It seems to me that you would first have to prove an offence occurred before someone can be charged with being an accessory to an offence.
Can someone be charged with accessory to murder without proof that a murder took place?
I understand there is a general and accepted fact that The Pirate Bay does indeed contribute to copyright infringement, but in a court of law where proof and evidence are important, it seems pretty dangerous to convict someone on established presumptions rather than fact based on evidence and that there should be an original offence, based on fact based evidence, to associate with an accessory charge.Sweden showed that they have integrity of their judicial process by not charging TPB with copyright infringement as their laws do not identify their activities as copyright infringement.
Good.  But charging them as an accessory to an unidentified offence is a departure from that judicial integrity.I worry for the rule of law when people can be charged with crimes in this way.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29920997</id>
	<title>Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256843820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> There is still isohunt, mininova, demonoid and torrentreactor, all based in countries with different jurisdictions. Atop of that, there is still rapidshare, mediafire, and let's not forget the ol' IRC channels. I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of The Pirate Bay, torrent greppers or the torrent trackers, though. </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is still isohunt , mininova , demonoid and torrentreactor , all based in countries with different jurisdictions .
Atop of that , there is still rapidshare , mediafire , and let 's not forget the ol ' IRC channels .
I would n't want to be in the shoes of The Pirate Bay , torrent greppers or the torrent trackers , though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> There is still isohunt, mininova, demonoid and torrentreactor, all based in countries with different jurisdictions.
Atop of that, there is still rapidshare, mediafire, and let's not forget the ol' IRC channels.
I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of The Pirate Bay, torrent greppers or the torrent trackers, though. </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29921157</id>
	<title>Re:Meanwhile...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256845800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Demonoid's been down for over a month, and Mininova was ordered by a court to remove illegal torrents.</p><p>Also, why is this under "Your Rights Online?"  Nobody has a right to illegally download copyrighted materials.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Demonoid 's been down for over a month , and Mininova was ordered by a court to remove illegal torrents.Also , why is this under " Your Rights Online ?
" Nobody has a right to illegally download copyrighted materials .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Demonoid's been down for over a month, and Mininova was ordered by a court to remove illegal torrents.Also, why is this under "Your Rights Online?
"  Nobody has a right to illegally download copyrighted materials.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_30_0137217.29920997</parent>
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